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賴士葆 @ 第11屆第5會期財政委員會第23次全體委員會議

Start Time End Time Text
00:00:00,000 00:00:03,240 以及各位先進也請財政部的莊部長
00:00:03,240 00:00:04,740 請財政部莊部長
00:00:08,500 00:00:09,260 委員好
00:00:09,260 00:00:10,760 是 部長早安
00:00:10,760 00:00:13,260 我剛才聽說明你有聽嘛 對不對
00:00:13,260 00:00:16,500 我想把兩年改成三年啦
00:00:16,500 00:00:19,760 然後呢 這個第二個就是
00:00:19,760 00:00:23,000 有關這一次啊 因為是國安的問題啊
00:00:23,000 00:00:24,760 少子化這麼嚴重啊
00:00:24,760 00:00:27,660 可不可以這一部分 就我們中央買單啊
00:00:27,660 00:00:28,660 幾十億而已
00:00:28,660 00:00:29,660 沒有多少錢
00:00:30,400 00:00:31,400 可以嗎
00:00:32,659 00:00:36,400 第一個 我們這個大概應該是跟住宅法
00:00:36,400 00:00:38,660 是同樣的一個所謂婚育家庭
00:00:38,660 00:00:40,660 因為住宅法裡面有相關的規定
00:00:40,660 00:00:42,660 那這個我們採取一致
00:00:42,660 00:00:44,660 因為同樣的就採取一致的規定
00:00:44,660 00:00:47,660 如果 跟委員報告為什麼會是兩年
00:00:47,660 00:00:49,660 新婚家庭的兩年
00:00:49,660 00:00:50,660 那另外就是
00:00:50,660 00:00:52,660 要不要中央買單啊
00:00:52,660 00:00:53,660 不要地方買單啊
00:00:53,660 00:00:55,660 中央 其實這個
00:00:55,660 00:00:57,160 我們剛剛所提到的減稅利益
00:00:57,160 00:00:58,660 大概50到75億
00:00:58,660 00:01:01,660 其實以地方政府現在的財力來說
00:01:01,660 00:01:04,660 遠遠比中
00:01:04,660 00:01:06,660 有很大的改變
00:01:06,660 00:01:07,660 我剛剛也提過 就是
00:01:07,660 00:01:09,660 才化法修正以後
00:01:09,660 00:01:15,660 115年比114年成長92%點幾
00:01:15,660 00:01:17,160 而且這個部分呢
00:01:17,160 00:01:20,160 今年可能還有第三期的分配
00:01:20,160 00:01:22,660 所以我想地方也會
00:01:22,660 00:01:24,660 和我們一起共同的努力
00:01:25,160 00:01:27,160 你不要偷換概念
00:01:27,160 00:01:29,160 你不要偷換概念
00:01:29,160 00:01:30,160 我們都知道 你說
00:01:30,160 00:01:32,160 我給地方4000多億
00:01:32,160 00:01:34,160 問題 你們拿回來一般補助款
00:01:34,160 00:01:37,160 跟計畫型補助款
00:01:37,160 00:01:39,160 拿回來2600多億
00:01:39,160 00:01:41,160 實際上你給地方
00:01:41,160 00:01:43,160 就增加1000多億
00:01:43,160 00:01:44,160 這個這樣就算了
00:01:44,160 00:01:47,160 第二個 你要把持有改成居住
00:01:47,160 00:01:49,160 可以吧 放寬
00:01:49,160 00:01:51,160 不一樣喔
00:01:51,160 00:01:53,160 這不一樣的概念
00:01:53,660 00:01:55,660 第一個 所謂的居住
00:01:55,660 00:01:56,660 也許是房屋
00:01:56,660 00:01:57,660 居住的意思就是
00:01:57,660 00:01:58,660 年輕的小孩子
00:01:58,660 00:02:01,660 居住在他爸爸的房子
00:02:01,660 00:02:03,660 這樣子 這個叫居住
00:02:03,660 00:02:05,660 年輕人居住
00:02:05,660 00:02:08,660 他父親設身他爸爸的房子
00:02:08,660 00:02:10,660 他設計 那他第一個
00:02:10,660 00:02:12,660 如果說是
00:02:12,660 00:02:14,660 要先看他是不是屬於自用住
00:02:14,660 00:02:16,660 自用 當然是自用
00:02:16,660 00:02:18,660 那這個範圍就更大了
00:02:18,660 00:02:20,660 那我想要再重新
00:02:20,660 00:02:22,660 你們去評估一下
00:02:23,160 00:02:25,160 因為你要年輕人
00:02:25,160 00:02:28,160 你知道年輕人買房子不容易
00:02:28,160 00:02:31,160 但是年輕人先住爸爸的房子
00:02:31,160 00:02:34,160 對不對 直接清楚的房子
00:02:34,160 00:02:37,160 爸爸或者媽媽的房子
00:02:37,160 00:02:39,160 老實講 我們給他這樣的一個減免
00:02:39,160 00:02:41,160 是合理的啦
00:02:41,160 00:02:42,160 好 我們再看了
00:02:42,160 00:02:43,160 大家關心的
00:02:43,160 00:02:47,160 你那個推出來新清安的3.0
00:02:47,160 00:02:50,160 其實外界很多的批評
00:02:50,660 00:02:52,660 第一個 他們認為你們
00:02:52,660 00:02:57,660 替建商hold住下跌中的房價
00:02:57,660 00:02:59,660 第二個 你的排富
00:02:59,660 00:03:03,660 電債連鎖的200萬以下
00:03:03,660 00:03:05,660 等同沒有門檻
00:03:05,660 00:03:06,660 為什麼
00:03:06,660 00:03:09,660 2%的人沒有達到平均薪資
00:03:09,660 00:03:10,660 4.8萬喔
00:03:10,660 00:03:12,660 4.8萬是什麼概念
00:03:12,660 00:03:15,660 我乘以13.5個月
00:03:15,660 00:03:17,660 他大概還不到70萬
00:03:17,660 00:03:18,660 我算70萬
00:03:19,160 00:03:21,160 夫妻兩個都這樣子
00:03:21,160 00:03:23,160 也就140萬
00:03:23,160 00:03:25,160 2%的人
00:03:25,160 00:03:28,160 根本達不到你的200萬的門檻
00:03:28,160 00:03:31,160 所以幾乎等於沒有門檻啦
00:03:31,160 00:03:33,160 再來就是50歲
00:03:33,160 00:03:35,160 你把他放光到50歲
00:03:35,160 00:03:37,160 30年
00:03:37,160 00:03:40,160 房子到80歲還在黃帶
00:03:40,160 00:03:42,160 你會不會覺得你這樣住
00:03:42,160 00:03:47,160 這個新清安3.0
00:03:47,660 00:03:49,660 結果等於是把錢
00:03:49,660 00:03:51,660 經理部的放到市場裡面
00:03:51,660 00:03:53,660 經理部的 老實講
00:03:53,660 00:03:55,660 就會有下一張
00:03:55,660 00:03:57,660 我所關心的一個問題
00:03:57,660 00:03:59,660 變成他會去
00:03:59,660 00:04:01,660 他會怎麼樣
00:04:01,660 00:04:02,660 這個
00:04:02,660 00:04:04,660 會去炒房耶
00:04:04,660 00:04:06,660 會不會
00:04:06,660 00:04:07,660 跟委員報告
00:04:07,660 00:04:09,660 第一個 新清安的政策目的
00:04:09,660 00:04:12,160 我們是協助沒有自有住宅的民眾
00:04:12,160 00:04:14,660 購買房屋自住使用
00:04:15,160 00:04:17,159 沒有所謂的替建商來做
00:04:17,159 00:04:19,159 hold住他的市場
00:04:19,159 00:04:20,159 我覺得沒有這個意思
00:04:20,159 00:04:22,159 我覺得我們是支持青年來實現
00:04:22,159 00:04:25,159 購屋安心成家的一個目的
00:04:25,159 00:04:26,159 沒有變
00:04:26,159 00:04:28,159 2.0的部分實施
00:04:28,159 00:04:31,159 近三年以來各界的相關的意見
00:04:31,159 00:04:32,159 我們都有聽取
00:04:32,159 00:04:33,659 所以在3.0的部分
00:04:33,659 00:04:35,659 做了相關的一些調整
00:04:35,659 00:04:37,159 現在怎麼會做到幾乎
00:04:37,159 00:04:38,159 更精進
00:04:38,159 00:04:39,159 我想
00:04:39,159 00:04:40,159 怎麼做到幾乎
00:04:40,159 00:04:41,159 你回答我做了幾乎
00:04:41,159 00:04:42,159 新清安
00:04:42,159 00:04:43,159 第一個
00:04:43,660 00:04:44,660 新清安
00:04:44,660 00:04:46,660 總共超過17萬戶
00:04:46,660 00:04:47,660 17萬戶
00:04:47,660 00:04:49,660 總共均每人放出去多少
00:04:49,660 00:04:50,660
00:04:50,660 00:04:52,660 核貸的大概是1兆多
00:04:52,660 00:04:53,660 1兆多啦
00:04:53,660 00:04:54,660 這1兆多
00:04:54,660 00:04:56,660 然後你怎麼防止
00:04:58,660 00:04:59,660 他這個錢
00:04:59,660 00:05:01,660 他現在四代同堂
00:05:01,660 00:05:03,660 用這個去貸款
00:05:03,660 00:05:04,660 然後
00:05:04,660 00:05:06,660 把資金投入股市
00:05:06,660 00:05:07,660 你怎麼防止
00:05:07,660 00:05:08,660 有沒有
00:05:08,660 00:05:09,660 有沒有那個
00:05:09,660 00:05:10,660 你讓你的泛光股
00:05:10,660 00:05:11,660 因為財政不管的
00:05:12,160 00:05:13,160 泛光股
00:05:14,160 00:05:15,160 二持
00:05:16,160 00:05:17,160 我們借了新清安
00:05:18,160 00:05:19,160 那麼去
00:05:19,160 00:05:20,160 拿到了資金
00:05:20,160 00:05:21,160 你說這個沒有啦
00:05:21,160 00:05:22,160 這個已經設定
00:05:22,160 00:05:23,160 他設定
00:05:23,160 00:05:24,160 不是設定
00:05:24,160 00:05:25,160 他一樣防止
00:05:25,160 00:05:27,160 譬如說我
00:05:27,160 00:05:28,160 我去買這個錢
00:05:28,160 00:05:30,160 是在屋的名下
00:05:30,160 00:05:32,160 我可以再去借錢啊
00:05:32,160 00:05:34,160 我借錢投入股市
00:05:34,160 00:05:35,160 然後我借個100萬
00:05:35,160 00:05:36,160 借個50萬
00:05:36,160 00:05:37,160 都沒關係
00:05:37,160 00:05:38,160 我去花錢要料死
00:05:38,160 00:05:40,160 我沒有看股市會漲
00:05:40,660 00:05:41,660 我把這個借的錢
00:05:41,660 00:05:42,660 去股市裡面
00:05:42,660 00:05:44,660 過一陣子很快就還掉了
00:05:44,660 00:05:45,660 你怎麼二持啊
00:05:45,660 00:05:46,660 你告訴我
00:05:46,660 00:05:47,660 有沒有這種
00:05:47,660 00:05:48,660 房子機制
00:05:48,660 00:05:49,660 清安的第一個
00:05:49,660 00:05:50,660 當然就是
00:05:50,660 00:05:51,660 他買房子
00:05:51,660 00:05:52,660 然後抵押設定
00:05:52,660 00:05:53,660 那至於這個房子
00:05:53,660 00:05:54,660 能不能有足夠的價值
00:05:54,660 00:05:55,660 再去做二胎
00:05:55,660 00:05:56,660 那這個是
00:05:56,660 00:05:57,660 銀行
00:05:57,660 00:05:58,660 他會去審核的
00:05:58,660 00:05:59,660 會去審核
00:05:59,660 00:06:00,660 那至於
00:06:00,660 00:06:01,660 他帶出來的金額
00:06:01,660 00:06:03,660 去做什麼樣一個用途
00:06:03,660 00:06:04,660 他只是帶了一個
00:06:04,660 00:06:05,660 新清安買了一間房子
00:06:05,660 00:06:06,660 對於他這個房子
00:06:06,660 00:06:07,660 後續的一個
00:06:08,160 00:06:09,160 這樣子的一個管控
00:06:09,160 00:06:10,160 說他不可以去買股票
00:06:10,160 00:06:11,160 不可以再做貸款
00:06:11,160 00:06:12,160 委員
00:06:12,160 00:06:13,160 這個財產權
00:06:13,160 00:06:14,160 基本上是屬於他的
00:06:14,160 00:06:15,160 我們要做這樣的一個
00:06:15,160 00:06:16,160 限制的話
00:06:16,160 00:06:17,160 做這樣的一個
00:06:17,160 00:06:18,160 限制的話
00:06:18,160 00:06:20,160 這個是涉及到法律的部分
00:06:20,160 00:06:21,160 因為財產權是他施人的
00:06:21,160 00:06:22,160 那只是政府
00:06:22,160 00:06:24,160 在他前期購買的時候
00:06:24,160 00:06:25,160 給予相關的一些
00:06:25,160 00:06:26,160 利息補貼
00:06:26,160 00:06:28,160 減輕他一些負擔
00:06:28,160 00:06:29,160 這個部分
00:06:29,160 00:06:30,160 我們也算過這個
00:06:30,160 00:06:31,160 金額
00:06:31,160 00:06:32,160 他會去審核
00:06:32,160 00:06:33,160 那至於這個
00:06:33,160 00:06:34,160 金額
00:06:34,160 00:06:35,160 他會去審核
00:06:35,160 00:06:36,160 那至於這個
00:06:36,160 00:06:37,160 金額
00:06:37,160 00:06:38,160 我們算過這個金額
00:06:38,160 00:06:39,160 大概如果以六年補貼
00:06:39,160 00:06:40,160 一千萬的貸款
00:06:40,160 00:06:41,160 政府相關的補貼
00:06:41,160 00:06:43,160 就是一個人就是二十二萬
00:06:43,160 00:06:45,160 限制他不准移轉
00:06:45,160 00:06:46,160 不准貸款
00:06:46,160 00:06:47,160 不准去買股票
00:06:47,160 00:06:48,160 我覺得這已經限制到
00:06:48,160 00:06:51,160 施人財產權的一個處分運用
00:06:51,160 00:06:52,160 簡單來講
00:06:52,160 00:06:55,160 你的答案就是告訴我們
00:06:55,160 00:06:57,160 政府沒有幫我房子
00:06:57,160 00:06:59,160 甚至於說
00:06:59,160 00:07:00,160 就你購
00:07:00,160 00:07:01,160 ALET
00:07:01,160 00:07:02,160
00:07:02,160 00:07:04,160 他愛怎麼樣就怎麼樣
00:07:04,160 00:07:05,160 他可以拿去做二代
00:07:05,160 00:07:06,160 拿資金
00:07:06,160 00:07:08,160 拿到的去炒股
00:07:08,160 00:07:09,160 你們也沒辦法去
00:07:09,160 00:07:10,160 二十
00:07:10,160 00:07:11,160 不是有辦法沒有辦法
00:07:11,160 00:07:13,160 而是要不要這樣做
00:07:13,160 00:07:14,160 第一個就是說
00:07:14,160 00:07:15,160 銀行在貸二胎的時候
00:07:15,160 00:07:17,160 第一個利率一定會比較高
00:07:17,160 00:07:18,160 第二個他的房子
00:07:18,160 00:07:21,160 必須要有足夠的擔保價值
00:07:21,160 00:07:22,160 才可能做
00:07:22,160 00:07:24,160 這是銀行在貸款的時候
00:07:24,160 00:07:26,160 本身就會做嚴格的審核的
00:07:26,160 00:07:27,160 我知道啦
00:07:27,160 00:07:29,160 但是可見得
00:07:29,160 00:07:31,160 目前來講就是可以啦
00:07:31,160 00:07:32,160 我們外界
00:07:32,160 00:07:35,160 所以外界的擔心是有道理的
00:07:35,160 00:07:37,160 外界的擔心是有道理的
00:07:37,160 00:07:39,160 這是我要強調的重點
00:07:39,160 00:07:41,160 你們去研究一下
00:07:41,160 00:07:42,160 當然委員這樣的擔心
00:07:42,160 00:07:44,160 也是要呼籲這個公務的民眾
00:07:44,160 00:07:45,160 因為你現在來講的話
00:07:45,160 00:07:47,160 投資要有審慎的
00:07:47,160 00:07:48,160 要有審慎的事務
00:07:48,160 00:07:50,160 請問你那個行政安
00:07:50,160 00:07:52,160 政府的利息補貼多少錢
00:07:52,160 00:07:54,160 政府的利息補貼
00:07:54,160 00:07:55,160 我們算過
00:07:55,160 00:07:56,160 以二十二
00:07:56,160 00:07:59,160 以他貸款一千萬來看的話
00:07:59,160 00:08:01,160 補貼大概是二十二萬
00:08:01,160 00:08:03,160 五千六年來說
00:08:03,160 00:08:05,160 他是貸一千萬的話
00:08:05,160 00:08:07,160 那麼他是二十二萬五千
00:08:07,160 00:08:09,160 就是他六年
00:08:09,160 00:08:10,160 政府給予補助
00:08:10,160 00:08:12,160 全部十七萬戶乘過來多少錢
00:08:12,160 00:08:14,160 全部十七萬戶的
00:08:14,160 00:08:16,160 全部的金額我們要再
00:08:16,160 00:08:20,160 十七萬戶乘以六萬是不是
00:08:20,160 00:08:22,160 你剛剛講六萬還是六十萬
00:08:22,160 00:08:24,160 什麼六萬還是六十萬
00:08:24,160 00:08:25,160 你剛剛講六萬不是
00:08:25,160 00:08:26,160 你說
00:08:26,160 00:08:29,160 我說他如果貸一千萬的話
00:08:29,160 00:08:30,160 六年
00:08:30,160 00:08:32,160 我們就前三年
00:08:32,159 00:08:34,159 利息補貼到一點
00:08:34,159 00:08:36,159 就是說他的利率是用一點七七五
00:08:36,159 00:08:39,159 後面每半每一年調升半碼
00:08:39,159 00:08:40,159 所以整個六年來看
00:08:40,159 00:08:42,159 政府給予他的利息補貼
00:08:42,159 00:08:44,159 六年就是二十二萬五千
00:08:44,159 00:08:47,160 二十二萬乘以十七萬戶
00:08:47,160 00:08:49,160 這個就這樣就這樣算
00:08:49,160 00:08:51,160 難道不是十二十
00:08:51,160 00:08:52,160 就大概快四百億
00:08:52,160 00:08:53,160 但是每一個人
00:08:53,160 00:08:54,160 不是都貸到一千萬
00:08:54,160 00:08:56,160 對啦我說平均嘛
00:08:56,160 00:08:58,160 所以每一個人都貸到一千萬
00:08:58,160 00:09:00,160 等於六年
00:09:00,160 00:09:02,160 我們政府要貼了大概四百億左右
00:09:02,160 00:09:05,160 所以六年等於一年
00:09:05,160 00:09:07,160 一年的話就等於是
00:09:07,160 00:09:12,160 六年的話等於一年差不多七十億左右
00:09:12,160 00:09:14,160 十七萬裡面百分之四十
00:09:14,160 00:09:18,160 百分之十七是低於貸款五百萬的
00:09:18,160 00:09:21,160 五百萬到百萬大概有百分之三十
00:09:21,160 00:09:24,160 所以超過的其實八百萬以上
00:09:24,160 00:09:26,160 百分之四十四
00:09:26,160 00:09:28,160 再問你一個東西
00:09:28,160 00:09:32,160 最近這個股市減少這麼多
00:09:32,160 00:09:36,160 這些資金這個股市成交量
00:09:36,160 00:09:39,160 明顯的少於一兆
00:09:39,160 00:09:42,160 那這個東西原來都上兆
00:09:42,160 00:09:43,160 現在的低於一兆
00:09:43,160 00:09:44,160 這個資金跑去哪裡
00:09:44,160 00:09:46,160 你們有沒有追一下
00:09:46,160 00:09:48,160 會不會跑去訪視有沒有
00:09:50,160 00:09:52,160 這個恐怕這個應該是金管會
00:09:52,160 00:09:54,160 跟金行去追
00:09:54,160 00:09:55,160 不是財政部去追
00:09:55,160 00:09:57,160 你們沒有去注意到這個東西
00:09:57,160 00:10:00,160 最近這兩天的股市的成交量
00:10:00,160 00:10:02,160 昨天來說是比較低
00:10:02,160 00:10:04,160 昨天低了八千多億而已
00:10:04,160 00:10:08,160 昨天整體來看我們以七月份來看
00:10:08,160 00:10:11,160 整體的七月份是一兆三千
00:10:11,160 00:10:13,160 一兆三千億
00:10:13,160 00:10:16,160 七月份的十四天平均數是一兆三千億
00:10:16,160 00:10:18,160 那昨天五月二十一號是
00:10:18,160 00:10:22,160 如果加上上市的新貴是一兆零兩百一十八億
00:10:22,160 00:10:25,160 昨天只有八千多億
00:10:25,160 00:10:27,160 我們這邊是看上市上櫃
00:10:27,160 00:10:29,160 全部是未上市櫃
00:10:29,160 00:10:31,160 你們去注意吧
00:10:31,160 00:10:34,160 我們希望你在資金的放出來
00:10:34,160 00:10:37,160 要注意到對於整個的金融市場
00:10:37,160 00:10:40,160 因為現在政府的M1B又增加
00:10:40,160 00:10:42,160 所以要去管控一下
00:10:42,160 00:10:44,160 我認為財政部還是有這個責任
00:10:44,160 00:10:46,160 謝謝委員的建議謝謝
00:10:46,160 00:10:48,160 謝謝賴事邦委員
00:10:48,160 00:10:50,160 下一位請郭國文委員質詢
00:10:55,160 00:10:56,160 謝謝