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陳亭妃 @ 第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第22次全體委員會議
| Start Time | End Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:00,000 | 00:00:02,000 | 下一位請陳婷菲委員 |
| 00:00:07,300 | 00:00:10,400 | 謝謝主席我們請經濟部長 |
| 00:00:10,400 | 00:00:11,660 | 請經濟部國務長 |
| 00:00:17,160 | 00:00:18,160 | 陳委員早安 |
| 00:00:18,160 | 00:00:22,560 | 早 我想這次的修法包括我們也都有提案 |
| 00:00:22,560 | 00:00:25,720 | 就是能源管理法的一個修正 |
| 00:00:25,720 | 00:00:31,280 | 主要針對說我們如何去公開能源銷售的統計資料 |
| 00:00:31,280 | 00:00:35,920 | 然後能源用戶應設置自用發電及除能設備 |
| 00:00:35,920 | 00:00:42,400 | 還有強化地方政府執行的節能與用能的管理機能量能 |
| 00:00:42,400 | 00:00:43,320 | 稽查量能 |
| 00:00:43,320 | 00:00:49,400 | 還有擴大經公告指定特定能源產品的管理授權範圍 |
| 00:00:49,400 | 00:00:53,480 | 然後再有加重違法能管法的處罰 |
| 00:00:53,480 | 00:00:56,640 | 以及檢討相關的違法太樣 |
| 00:00:56,640 | 00:00:59,480 | 大概是這幾個重點 |
| 00:00:59,480 | 00:01:04,519 | 但是我們現在如果這個修正草案過了 |
| 00:01:04,519 | 00:01:09,399 | 其實我們最擔心的是你執法的訂定 |
| 00:01:09,399 | 00:01:13,320 | 其實重點是在執法的訂定 |
| 00:01:13,320 | 00:01:17,080 | 大範圍我剛念的都是我們的大範圍 |
| 00:01:17,080 | 00:01:19,920 | 也就是這一次修法的重點 |
| 00:01:19,960 | 00:01:24,280 | 可是現在大家所擔心的是 |
| 00:01:24,280 | 00:01:31,360 | 你的執法你到底要怎麼訂定所謂的用電大戶的訂立 |
| 00:01:31,360 | 00:01:33,960 | 一定容量一定期限 |
| 00:01:33,960 | 00:01:37,960 | 還有一定裝置容量的這些樣態 |
| 00:01:37,960 | 00:01:44,680 | 還有如何設置自用發電設備與除能設備的種類 |
| 00:01:44,680 | 00:01:46,520 | 還有設置方式 |
| 00:01:46,520 | 00:01:50,440 | 甚至是其他相關事項的辦法 |
| 00:01:50,440 | 00:01:54,199 | 這些其實都在執法當中要去訂定的 |
| 00:01:54,199 | 00:01:57,960 | 可是這些執法還沒有方向之前 |
| 00:01:57,960 | 00:02:05,520 | 就會影響到所有這些企業的恐慌跟擔憂 |
| 00:02:05,520 | 00:02:08,120 | 所以為什麼大家會很擔心 |
| 00:02:08,120 | 00:02:10,199 | 就是說你的標準 |
| 00:02:10,199 | 00:02:12,880 | 因為剛剛如果聽部長所說的 |
| 00:02:12,880 | 00:02:14,800 | 方向還沒有很確定 |
| 00:02:14,840 | 00:02:22,240 | 你說的可能還要了解一個基本概念基礎的一個條件 |
| 00:02:22,240 | 00:02:24,720 | 跟能源管理法相… |
| 00:02:24,720 | 00:02:25,680 | 就是那個… |
| 00:02:25,680 | 00:02:27,680 | 利害關係人 |
| 00:02:27,680 | 00:02:28,480 | 對 |
| 00:02:28,480 | 00:02:32,480 | 所以這才會影響到大家的擔憂 |
| 00:02:32,480 | 00:02:36,560 | 也就是這個能源管理法過了之後 |
| 00:02:36,560 | 00:02:39,360 | 他們會面臨什麼樣的衝擊 |
| 00:02:39,400 | 00:02:40,080 | 好 |
| 00:02:40,080 | 00:02:44,840 | 他們是不是要變成是一定要有所謂的 |
| 00:02:44,840 | 00:02:48,800 | 我們經濟部定義的用電大戶 |
| 00:02:48,800 | 00:02:53,960 | 他們是不是要有設置自用的發電設備 |
| 00:02:53,960 | 00:02:56,480 | 還有除能設備 |
| 00:02:56,480 | 00:03:00,160 | 這些他們會變成一個擔憂跟擔心 |
| 00:03:00,160 | 00:03:04,880 | 如果我們今天原本一個法的一個修正 |
| 00:03:04,880 | 00:03:07,800 | 我們是要一個正面的 |
| 00:03:07,800 | 00:03:10,840 | 我們是要讓企業更加有雄勇 |
| 00:03:10,840 | 00:03:14,400 | 讓企業更加有力有意義 |
| 00:03:14,400 | 00:03:16,960 | 像這個裡面有一個重點就是說 |
| 00:03:16,960 | 00:03:17,960 | 好 |
| 00:03:17,960 | 00:03:24,440 | 他要強化地方政府的執行節能與用能管理的稽查量能 |
| 00:03:24,440 | 00:03:25,280 | 好 |
| 00:03:25,280 | 00:03:32,760 | 這個要怎麼跟地方政府有相對應的這些辦法跟稽查的條件 |
| 00:03:32,760 | 00:03:34,040 | 這也是關鍵 |
| 00:03:34,040 | 00:03:34,920 | 是 |
| 00:03:34,920 | 00:03:37,000 | 這也是執法裡面要定的 |
| 00:03:37,000 | 00:03:39,120 | 不是我們現在過了 |
| 00:03:39,120 | 00:03:42,880 | 你地方政府各吹各的調 |
| 00:03:42,880 | 00:03:43,880 | 不是 |
| 00:03:43,880 | 00:03:46,520 | 一定要有一個標準 |
| 00:03:46,520 | 00:03:48,040 | 所以這個部分 |
| 00:03:48,040 | 00:03:52,400 | 當我們今天如果這個修法過了 |
| 00:03:52,400 | 00:03:59,920 | 請問我們的執法什麼時候要把它推出來 |
| 00:03:59,920 | 00:04:02,160 | 而且部長你不要忘了 |
| 00:04:02,160 | 00:04:06,840 | 我們都市型的廠房跟老舊工業區 |
| 00:04:06,880 | 00:04:10,120 | 它實體的空間就不足了 |
| 00:04:10,120 | 00:04:12,680 | 那我們怎麼去協助廠商 |
| 00:04:12,680 | 00:04:18,320 | 去設置這些相關的儲能發電設備 |
| 00:04:18,320 | 00:04:20,840 | 你還就考慮到這一點 |
| 00:04:20,840 | 00:04:22,800 | 當然我必須說的 |
| 00:04:22,800 | 00:04:24,640 | 這個是未來 |
| 00:04:24,640 | 00:04:27,520 | 整個能源管理法的修法 |
| 00:04:27,520 | 00:04:29,600 | 這是一個未來的趨勢 |
| 00:04:29,600 | 00:04:36,360 | 可是當我們在未來的趨勢跟現在要做一個接軌的時候 |
| 00:04:36,360 | 00:04:39,920 | 一定要有很多磨合期 |
| 00:04:39,920 | 00:04:40,440 | 好 |
| 00:04:40,440 | 00:04:42,160 | 這些磨合期 |
| 00:04:42,160 | 00:04:45,840 | 請問我們要訂定多久 |
| 00:04:45,840 | 00:04:48,160 | 我們要誰來協助 |
| 00:04:48,160 | 00:04:51,280 | 我們要如何來幫忙 |
| 00:04:51,280 | 00:04:53,080 | 這些都是重點 |
| 00:04:53,080 | 00:04:54,800 | 部長 |
| 00:04:54,800 | 00:04:57,760 | 你們已經思考到這個層面了嗎 |
| 00:04:57,760 | 00:05:00,160 | 修法很簡單 |
| 00:05:00,160 | 00:05:01,880 | 過與不過 |
| 00:05:01,880 | 00:05:04,280 | 可是修法之後 |
| 00:05:04,280 | 00:05:06,200 | 我的執行面 |
| 00:05:06,200 | 00:05:10,080 | 當你執法沒訂了你的執行面 |
| 00:05:10,080 | 00:05:14,360 | 要怎麼樣來把這個磨合期 |
| 00:05:14,360 | 00:05:19,320 | 把這樣的擔憂跟恐慌說得越小 |
| 00:05:19,320 | 00:05:20,520 | 部長 |
| 00:05:20,520 | 00:05:23,440 | 如果沒有我們署長來講也OK |
| 00:05:23,440 | 00:05:24,520 | 對 |
| 00:05:24,520 | 00:05:25,080 | 好 |
| 00:05:25,080 | 00:05:26,000 | 原則上 |
| 00:05:26,000 | 00:05:26,919 | 我想原則 |
| 00:05:26,919 | 00:05:28,919 | 等一下署長會做補充說明 |
| 00:05:28,919 | 00:05:29,800 | 就是說 |
| 00:05:29,800 | 00:05:30,520 | 我們一定 |
| 00:05:30,520 | 00:05:33,200 | 就是方向上還是用電大戶 |
| 00:05:33,200 | 00:05:34,560 | 如果5M以上的 |
| 00:05:34,600 | 00:05:36,800 | 現在有700多家 |
| 00:05:36,800 | 00:05:39,120 | 但是我們期待就是說 |
| 00:05:39,120 | 00:05:40,920 | 他可以在表後裡面 |
| 00:05:40,920 | 00:05:42,520 | 自己有一些 |
| 00:05:42,520 | 00:05:46,320 | 節電或者是用電發電的能量跟能力 |
| 00:05:46,320 | 00:05:48,240 | 但是我們一定會 |
| 00:05:48,240 | 00:05:49,960 | 顧及到廠商 |
| 00:05:49,960 | 00:05:51,600 | 他的現實狀況 |
| 00:05:51,600 | 00:05:52,520 | 他能不能做到 |
| 00:05:52,520 | 00:05:53,840 | 如果他沒有辦法做到的話 |
| 00:05:53,840 | 00:05:54,720 | 你強迫他 |
| 00:05:54,720 | 00:05:56,000 | 這樣是不對的 |
| 00:05:56,000 | 00:05:57,520 | 所以我們一定在執法裡面 |
| 00:05:57,520 | 00:05:58,800 | 為什麼要 |
| 00:05:58,800 | 00:06:02,240 | 經過談好或怎麼樣情況之下 |
| 00:06:02,240 | 00:06:03,360 | 讓他們可以做到 |
| 00:06:03,360 | 00:06:04,320 | 方向上是 |
| 00:06:04,360 | 00:06:05,719 | 而且還會有一個 |
| 00:06:05,719 | 00:06:06,520 | 您剛剛提到的 |
| 00:06:06,520 | 00:06:07,760 | 可能有過渡階段 |
| 00:06:07,760 | 00:06:09,159 | 一定期間 |
| 00:06:09,159 | 00:06:10,200 | 當他可以真的去磨合事業 |
| 00:06:10,200 | 00:06:11,840 | 期間多久 |
| 00:06:11,840 | 00:06:13,360 | 過去來講 |
| 00:06:13,360 | 00:06:15,760 | 過去通常是5年 |
| 00:06:15,760 | 00:06:16,800 | 但是我們現在 |
| 00:06:16,800 | 00:06:18,640 | 就是還是要跟大家談 |
| 00:06:18,640 | 00:06:20,800 | 他的困難度怎麼樣 |
| 00:06:20,800 | 00:06:22,159 | 如果是5年的話 |
| 00:06:22,159 | 00:06:23,560 | 是不是可以做到或是怎麼樣 |
| 00:06:23,560 | 00:06:25,760 | 因為整個樣態都不一樣 |
| 00:06:25,760 | 00:06:27,400 | 就我想的 |
| 00:06:27,400 | 00:06:29,000 | 這個都市型的 |
| 00:06:29,000 | 00:06:30,719 | 跟傳統型的 |
| 00:06:30,719 | 00:06:32,000 | 他是完全不同的 |
| 00:06:32,000 | 00:06:32,640 | 是 |
| 00:06:32,640 | 00:06:34,360 | 新型的工業區 |
| 00:06:34,360 | 00:06:36,159 | 跟舊的工業區 |
| 00:06:36,159 | 00:06:36,680 | 了解 |
| 00:06:36,680 | 00:06:38,360 | 他的條件也不一樣 |
| 00:06:38,360 | 00:06:39,520 | 所以對於 |
| 00:06:39,520 | 00:06:41,039 | 也許新開發的部分 |
| 00:06:41,039 | 00:06:42,000 | 我們可能要求會 |
| 00:06:42,000 | 00:06:43,000 | 稍微嚴格一點 |
| 00:06:43,000 | 00:06:44,800 | 那已經存在的部分 |
| 00:06:44,800 | 00:06:45,640 | 是不是 |
| 00:06:45,640 | 00:06:47,440 | 可以用怎麼樣的形式 |
| 00:06:47,440 | 00:06:48,479 | 要求沒有那麼嚴格 |
| 00:06:48,479 | 00:06:49,560 | 因為他既有的廠房 |
| 00:06:49,560 | 00:06:50,560 | 已經在那邊了 |
| 00:06:50,560 | 00:06:52,240 | 他沒有多處的地方 |
| 00:06:52,240 | 00:06:54,320 | 那他怎麼樣去處理 |
| 00:06:54,320 | 00:06:54,880 | 這個我們 |
| 00:06:54,880 | 00:06:58,320 | 部長為什麼提到這個問題 |
| 00:06:58,320 | 00:07:00,360 | 因為這是一個企業發展 |
| 00:07:00,360 | 00:07:01,640 | 一定要 |
| 00:07:01,640 | 00:07:03,479 | 這個能源管理法的修法 |
| 00:07:03,479 | 00:07:05,080 | 這是不得不 |
| 00:07:05,080 | 00:07:06,159 | 一定要面對的 |
| 00:07:06,159 | 00:07:06,800 | 是 |
| 00:07:06,800 | 00:07:08,560 | 可是我們必須 |
| 00:07:08,560 | 00:07:10,919 | 在現在跟 |
| 00:07:10,919 | 00:07:13,560 | 目前的整個樣態 |
| 00:07:13,560 | 00:07:15,400 | 我們也要做一些 |
| 00:07:15,400 | 00:07:16,719 | 所謂的 |
| 00:07:16,719 | 00:07:17,880 | 如何 |
| 00:07:17,880 | 00:07:19,240 | 什麼樣的 |
| 00:07:19,240 | 00:07:21,280 | 要進行到什麼程度 |
| 00:07:21,280 | 00:07:23,800 | 第二樣態的進行到什麼程度 |
| 00:07:23,800 | 00:07:25,640 | 一定要有這些資料 |
| 00:07:25,640 | 00:07:26,520 | 因為 |
| 00:07:26,520 | 00:07:27,919 | 台南市 |
| 00:07:27,919 | 00:07:30,200 | 是工業區最多的 |
| 00:07:30,240 | 00:07:32,719 | 從歷屆的工業 |
| 00:07:32,719 | 00:07:34,200 | 這個經濟部部長 |
| 00:07:34,200 | 00:07:37,960 | 我每次邀請他到台南 |
| 00:07:37,960 | 00:07:40,039 | 大概都嚇一跳 |
| 00:07:40,039 | 00:07:41,200 | 就是說 |
| 00:07:41,200 | 00:07:43,840 | 工業區的樣態非常多 |
| 00:07:43,840 | 00:07:46,599 | 因為我們是傳統 |
| 00:07:46,599 | 00:07:48,640 | 跟高科技 |
| 00:07:48,640 | 00:07:52,480 | 兩個相互接應的一個 |
| 00:07:52,480 | 00:07:54,400 | 城市發展 |
| 00:07:54,400 | 00:07:56,320 | 在整個經濟面的部分 |
| 00:07:56,320 | 00:07:57,560 | 是這個樣子 |
| 00:07:57,560 | 00:07:59,760 | 所以我們必須 |
| 00:07:59,800 | 00:08:02,320 | 我要先拜託部長說 |
| 00:08:02,320 | 00:08:03,800 | 你的樣態 |
| 00:08:03,800 | 00:08:04,960 | 其實你只要 |
| 00:08:04,960 | 00:08:08,360 | 抓台南市的整個工業區的樣態 |
| 00:08:08,360 | 00:08:10,000 | 你大概就可以知道 |
| 00:08:10,000 | 00:08:12,680 | 目前所有全國 |
| 00:08:12,680 | 00:08:14,960 | 它的經濟企業 |
| 00:08:14,960 | 00:08:17,360 | 工業樣態的形式 |
| 00:08:17,360 | 00:08:18,680 | 你要怎麼定 |
| 00:08:18,680 | 00:08:20,240 | 要怎麼處理 |
| 00:08:20,240 | 00:08:22,480 | 我相信你就會比較有 |
| 00:08:22,480 | 00:08:23,719 | 那個邏輯 |
| 00:08:23,719 | 00:08:24,599 | 好所以 |
| 00:08:24,599 | 00:08:25,760 | 部長再拜託 |
| 00:08:25,760 | 00:08:26,520 | 謝謝 |
| 00:08:26,520 | 00:08:28,240 | 我剛剛提到的可能 |
| 00:08:28,240 | 00:08:29,240 | 那個 |
| 00:08:29,240 | 00:08:30,400 | 主席站起來了 |
| 00:08:30,400 | 00:08:32,560 | 我再拜託我們的署長 |
| 00:08:32,560 | 00:08:33,799 | 我剛剛問的 |
| 00:08:33,799 | 00:08:36,000 | 你再拜託一個書面給我們 |
| 00:08:36,000 | 00:08:37,000 | 好的 |
| 00:08:37,000 | 00:08:38,000 | 書面給我們 |
| 00:08:38,000 | 00:08:40,000 | 讓我們很清楚知道 |
| 00:08:40,000 | 00:08:41,799 | 起碼地方 |
| 00:08:41,799 | 00:08:44,000 | 這些工業或是企業 |
| 00:08:44,000 | 00:08:45,640 | 在問我們的時候 |
| 00:08:45,640 | 00:08:47,920 | 我們知道怎麼回答 |
| 00:08:47,920 | 00:08:49,320 | 怎麼來協助他們 |
| 00:08:49,320 | 00:08:51,920 | 至少樣態來講有新舊 |
| 00:08:51,920 | 00:08:53,120 | 然後還有都市 |
| 00:08:53,120 | 00:08:53,960 | 還有這個 |
| 00:08:53,960 | 00:08:55,480 | 傳統 |
| 00:08:55,480 | 00:08:56,240 | 有不一樣 |
| 00:08:56,240 | 00:08:57,800 | 那我們會不同的樣態 |
| 00:08:57,839 | 00:08:59,839 | 可能要求會有一點點差異 |
| 00:08:59,839 | 00:09:01,439 | 對而且因為 |
| 00:09:01,439 | 00:09:02,880 | 舊的工業區 |
| 00:09:02,880 | 00:09:04,199 | 他當時候 |
| 00:09:04,199 | 00:09:06,199 | 所設置的條件 |
| 00:09:06,199 | 00:09:07,520 | 跟現在設的條件 |
| 00:09:07,520 | 00:09:08,680 | 就是不一樣 |
| 00:09:08,680 | 00:09:10,640 | 好所以這個部分可能 |
| 00:09:10,640 | 00:09:11,800 | 我們要怎麼加強 |
| 00:09:11,800 | 00:09:12,920 | 一定要加強 |
| 00:09:12,920 | 00:09:15,520 | 可是怎麼樣來協助他們 |
| 00:09:15,520 | 00:09:17,880 | 達到我們要的方向 |
| 00:09:17,880 | 00:09:19,599 | 而且是他們能夠 |
| 00:09:19,599 | 00:09:20,760 | 無縫接軌 |
| 00:09:20,760 | 00:09:23,319 | 而且有好的一個接軌形式 |
| 00:09:23,319 | 00:09:24,479 | 這才是最重要 |
| 00:09:24,479 | 00:09:25,599 | 好謝謝 |
| 00:09:25,599 | 00:09:26,400 | 好 |
| 00:09:26,400 | 00:09:26,800 | 謝謝 |
| 00:09:26,800 | 00:09:27,800 | 謝謝市立委員 |