| IVOD_ID |
17052 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17052 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-20T08:34:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-20T12:15:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:40:49 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db56bfc183e580b28da1b9d49b0efe1ae285db5c09cad80ab70f9b155ca47870035ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、數位發展部首長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、教育部首長及勞動部首長就「攸關臺灣未來的競爭力，值此ＡI時代，臺灣如何贏得新人才戰？」進行報告，並備質詢。
【11月19日及20日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:34:11 - 12:15:00 |
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由 Amara.org 社群提供的字幕 |
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好 謝謝我們現在正式開會請進行報告事項請宣讀報告事項 |
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邀請國家發展委員會主任委員 經濟部部長 數位發展部首長國家科學及技術委員會首長 教育部首長及勞動部首長就攸關台灣未來的競爭力 支持AI時代 台灣如何贏得新人才戰進行報告並備質詢 宣導完畢好 我們現在介紹現場官員以及我們的委員賴世鮑委員 |
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1662.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1690.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
謝謝我們國發會主委葉主委 謝謝接下來國家發展基金管委會的執行秘書 汪執行秘書 謝謝經濟部工部長 謝謝書發部侯正志 謝謝接下來國家科學及技術委員會書務主委 謝謝教育部朱長士 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1693.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1716.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
謝謝 勞動部洪部長謝謝好 那麼我們本日議程排定有關台灣未來的競爭力那指使AI時代台灣如何贏得新人才戰進行報告並被質詢那首先我們請國發會主委葉主委做報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1724.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1747.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
主席 各位委員先進 大家好今天承蒙貴委員會邀請本會列席就攸關台灣未來的競爭力 支持AI時代台灣如何贏得新人才戰 進行報告以下緊究部分重點進行口頭報告 敬請各位委員不吝指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1748.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1776.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
那依據速發部調查2025到2027年我國AI應用服務業產業專業人才需求平均每年增加約3000到4000人那對勞動市場帶來挑戰與機會為因應AI轉型過程中勞動市場結構的變化政府積極推動AI相關培育及培訓措施那致力於 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1778.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1792.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
致力於提升AI產業人才量能協助企業人才佈局促使勞動市場順利轉型那AI新十大建設的數位基 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1794.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1820.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
数位基盘是实现AI在各行各业落地的坚实后盾其中针对AI人才行政团队将透过培育新世代人才还有培训产业实作人才及延揽专业人士三大资助建构从基础AI素养到高阶创新应用的全方位人才发展策略实现我国AI人才生命链的循环共融 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1821.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1838.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
教育部也在積極的推動AI教育向下扎根從國小階段起強化師資AI的融入教學能力導入AI學習夥伴並辦理相關競賽高中階段則持續推廣AI多元選修課程與 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1839.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1854.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
科技創新應用大專院校階段則透過多元學習路徑培育學生成為具備跨域的人才教育部也透過與地方政府的合作然後與終身學習機構一起辦理AI的學習 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1858.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1886.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那希望能够迈向全民终身学习的AI新时代那在经济部也陆续的在推动中小企业服务业还有制造业等AI的应用以及AI新秀AI市产线的计划那书发部也发布了AI产业人才指引认定指引以公司协力促成民间机构办理AI技术技能认定与培训那劳动部也协助企业员工及失业者培训 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1888.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1906.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
產業所需的數位技能本會參考新加坡 日本 英國的做法推動了外國專業人才延攬及僱傭法的修正全面優化國際人才工作 居留以及社會保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1907.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1930.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
为了让国际人才进得来留得住并且可以快速适应我国生活本会议也成立了Talent Taiwan国际人才服务及延揽中心提供了一站式的来台申请程序及后续在台的服务最后面对全球AI的浪潮政府将持续投入资源强化教育与产业的链接 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1931.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1956.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那积极育成AI人才成为产业创新及升级注入长远的动能那同时推动AI融入日常生活工作让智慧科技普及普惠全民仍能具备AI运用那以上报告尽情只这样谢谢好谢谢谢谢主委来接下来我们请经济部工部长请做报告谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1961.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1990.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
主席各位委員大家好首先感謝貴委員會讓本部有機會就AI時代台灣如何贏得新人才戰的議題進行經濟部推動事項的專案報告請各位委員不吝指教以下僅就經濟部針對人才培訓佈局的策略向各委員來做一些說明首先在國內推動產業人才培訓的部分對於AI的初學者 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1991.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2018.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
本部中企署有针对中小企业网络大学校以及产发署的AI线上学习平台来提供针对在职的员工来讲的话包括我们的产发署还有商发署还有中企署还有技术师都有不同的计划在推动AI的人才培养第二大项有关于延览国际专业人才的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2019.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2030.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
经济部有Contact Taiwan另外也有透过来台设立研发中心吸引高阶的人才来台湾另外我们也跟教育部配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2030.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2053.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
推动新形态的这个专班的一些相关计划那第三个是建立有关于产业人才鉴定的基础所谓的IPaaS那目前IPaaS有六大领域19项的人才的鉴定那目前来讲的话已经有超过4万个人取得这个证照那有关于AI经济部 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2054.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2070.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
人才的这个阶段性成果简要的跟各位说明一下有关于整体的培训规模到11月17号来讲基金部透过多元的AI培训的课程已经累积大概参与的人数大概有10万名那 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2071.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2100.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第二个就是说有关于透过iPath产业人才的鉴定的部分那iPath的这个AI应用的规划是在114年首次的开办四个提示总共吸引了1.4万人来考那已经通过检定的大概有6500位合格的AI的专业人才那第四项我们也设置了线上的学习平台总共有170门线上课程提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2101.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2128.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個學習最後AI是驅動整個新一輪產業革命的關鍵引擎中小企業普遍面臨資源有限技術門檻高人才不足的挑戰AI專業人才已經成為產業升級的關鍵因素本部將持續發揮跨部位人才鏈結以及資源串聯的中效協助中小企業跨越這個轉型的門檻以上報告進行指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2132.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2157.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好 我們謝謝經濟部部長 工部長那麼有關本次會議各部會所提的書面報告我們也請委員自行參閱並刊登公報現在我們進行詢答委員詢答前我們依照慣例主席來做以下的宣告每位委員發言時間本委員會6分鐘必要時間加2分非本委員會5分鐘上午10點半 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2157.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2182.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
截止發言登記那首先我們請第一位陳婷菲委員請做詢答陳婷菲委員謝謝主席我們請國防會主委我們請國防會主委那個主席等一下我們的那個PowerPoint還沒對 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2226.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2226.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
好 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2306.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2316.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 我們現在請資訊事務人員來做協助再測試看看早上是有測試過然後現在再請醫事組人員來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2325.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2346.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
要測試 好 OK好 我們現在請陳婷菲委員請做巡檔謝謝主席 謝謝國發會主委我想我現在希望跟你討論的就是我們一直在推動的大南方新矽谷計畫這也是我們在AI十大建設推動範圍一個很重要在我們整個區塊鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2348.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2372.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
一个结合那我们这大南方新矽谷计划里面包含了六大分享计划对不对有我们的沙伦人工智慧产业专区全区管理AI运算资料中心建置沙伦智慧健康产业大楼建置近邻绿能示范场域AI创新应用及治安剂 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2372.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2395.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
智慧科技专区智慧雨林产业创生这几个部分是我们这六大分项的一个计划那我们现在是用大南方新矽谷推动委员会这样的方式在跨部会召开协调对不对那这个部分未来是不是会慢慢导入我们科学园区的管理模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2397.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2416.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在特定的一些科學園區的規劃的話我們是會往那個方向走的那這個部分我想問我們所有的先期規劃已經準備好了嗎這個部分我們那個先期規劃的好了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2418.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2431.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
对对对都好了吗这几个计划我们看到沙伦人工智慧产业专区先行规划计划是国科卫经济部114年度是编列3.62亿对不对 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2433.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2455.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
AI運算資料中心兼職國科會是編列1.8億淨零綠能示範場域經濟部是編列3億智慧雨林產業創生經濟部國科會教育部抒發部是編列3.69億好 那我們要問這些現在進行的速度跟進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2458.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2481.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這是114年喔對 這個部分的話因為整個公務預算有一點delay啦是對 那有一點點落後但我們現在其實落後多少落後的話 個別的細項我沒有辦法跟委員報告但我們是經由公共建設這個部分讓我們針對每一個部會有在今天的國防委員會這是公建計畫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2483.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2511.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
有些是用公建计划有些是本预算对不对公建计划本预算然后相交去协助Support这个大南方新矽谷计划对但是我们到底整个进度控管如何我们还没办法掌握细部细部我是不是会后再给那个委员治疗因为这个每一个都是还蛮细部的一个治疗主委那我要问现在有delay了 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2511.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2540.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那请问115年呢我们有在2026呢我们有请各部会尽赶快把那个落后的部分赶快补上来没有什么叫尽快补上对对对因为我们今天刚好何谓尽快补上我们现在已经要省明年度的预算对因为我们要省明年度预算就算它还没送进来可是我们必须说的这些计划是一年一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2541.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2568.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
不斷地堆成不斷地延續那我要問我們今年都delay了那明年怎麼辦那在下一年度怎麼辦根據今天早上因為我們今天早上國家發展委員會的委員會剛好有開會那我們也有針對那個公建預算落後的問題然後請對還有那個大南方新矽谷這個計畫部分對對也有做一些檢討主委麻煩了 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2569.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2597.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
一个资料给我们到底现在落后多少我们怎么去补足这个落后下一个年度又要怎么办因为这是大计划你只要第一阶段第一年delay了后面就会一直delay下去可能我们这个大南方新矽谷就会造成人民没有办法看到我们的期待跟未来这对于我们台南很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2598.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2619.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
对所以委员关心的这个部分其实我们在今天早上那委员会就有特别提出来就是说请各部会就公建计划还有那个像比如说六大生活区域以及大南方信息股这个部分的话要进度上面要赶快你知道这总经费你们原本预定是315亿左右当然这是分了好几年 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2620.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2648.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以你在第一年没有执行第二年再执行又会往后所以你知道吗我们期待的因为在台南我们沙伦我们除了是人工智慧是绿能我们现在也把AI整个运算把它加进来对这也牵扯到我们人力的问题人才的问题好那我要再强调一点去年公务预算有遭到大幅的删减 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2649.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2654.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
在大南方興溪谷計畫那這個部分會受到影響嗎我們要如何因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2656.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2684.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
这个部分假如是涉及到人事这个部分的话应该是没问题啦没有就整个对整个的话比较delay比较多的应该是所谓那个计划型期没错它在整个公务预算我刚刚已经讲了它就两个部分一个是公务预算一个是公建预算所以我们如果公务预算有被删掉了那你今天就看到已经明显delay了那这个要怎么补足 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2685.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2706.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我想你的報告要盡快給我因為這個對台南的發展太為重要了因為我們希望能夠透過所有整個大南方矽谷計畫的一個延展性看到我們台南在科技的亮跟光因為我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2707.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2722.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
台积电的南科这个已经是我们的护国神山我们如果可以加进我们的绿能我们的演算中心我们的AI我相信台南在整个科技的发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2723.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2740.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
还有AI的发展又会往外跳脱很大的一块而且它的幅度会吃高发展能量会非常的大所以主委再拜托而且针对串联大南方各园区我们要纳入九大配套措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2741.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2761.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
供水规划 供电规划交通运输物路网产业人口居住员工子女教育还有医疗资源近邻转型人力及人才培育文化设施所以这个部分各单位都准备好了吗都有入学兵进去了吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2763.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2778.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
這個部分我們會跟那個國科會這邊去討論一些內部事項然後另外一個就是說我們從明年開始每一個月我們會追蹤那一個公建的計畫他那個進度那國科會有掌握所有的資訊嗎有嗎這個部分有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2784.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2802.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
有掌握所有的資訊嗎是 跟委員報告針對這個園區的發展的部分國科會有掌握進度而且 你的掌握你是要把周邊周邊我們人民的這些土地納入到一起副都心的整體規劃不是只有你而已是 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2803.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2822.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
你不能說你今天做好之後 把人放在旁邊相關的園區發展對於周邊的考量我們會一併納入考量那這個部分你們計畫在哪裡再拜託整個完整性因為這九大配套太重要了而且你要配合台南市政府的都市計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2824.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2850.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
如果你的方向沒有出來市政府沒有辦法配合會的 我們會一起整體來考量好 這個部分因為其實在台南我們已經開了很多次會議那這個部分的動向跟它的進度跟它的速度 效率我們要看到是好 再拜託 謝謝好 謝謝接下來我們請邱議員委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2866.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2894.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好 謝謝主席我是不是請一下經濟部跟國科會好 請兩位主委好部長好這個國科會今天是副主委嘛是部長 這個我們今天主席排定的議程是要討論AI時代到底台灣如何贏得人才戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2895.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2921.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
但我今天要跟您討論在討論人才戰之前在討論人才戰之前部長我想要讓您看一下紅色資本已經入侵台灣直接掐住了台灣半導體的物流命脈 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2923.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2946.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
部長這個我不曉得您跟國科會有沒有掌握這件事情在我們的南科跟竹科這兩個園區裡頭唯一的物流業者叫做科學城物流科學城物流現在的經營權掌握在誰的手裡掌握在家裡大榮物流這家公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2946.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2966.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那這一家公司呢現在被發現這一家公司的董事長其實具有中國的政協背景我們很擔心所有園區內的高科技業的機密資料是不是會全都漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2967.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2988.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
部長讓你看一下科學城物流公司的這個經營權的轉移時間軸從2011年馬政府的時代我們核准台灣家裡投資去持有家裡大榮過半的股權一直到18年新竹物流去取得科學城物流55%的股權 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2991.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3019.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
2019年新竹物流把科學城物流的股權賣給了嘉里大榮2021年順豐控股收購了香港嘉里物流過半的股權到2023年郭氏集團也就是嘉里控股的董事長郭孔華跟郭惠光分別擔任北京跟上海的政協委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3020.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3034.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
這一張關係圖可以很清楚的讓部長跟國科會去了解我剛剛所談到的順豐控股跟家裡控股公司之間到底他們的關係鏈結是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3038 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3052.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
順豐控股是中國最大的物流集團它具有中國官方的背景跟中國政府的投資而順豐控股在2021年收購了香港家裡物流過半的股權之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3053.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3080.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
形成了一個非常清楚的控制鏈就是順豐控股然後接下來是嘉里控股接下來是KLN然後是嘉里大榮的台灣然後是科學城物流而科學城物流就是我們南科跟竹科唯一的倉儲科學城物流嘉里大榮現在持股佔有科學城物流60%以上的股份 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3082.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3110.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
為什麼說紅色集團入侵部長我讓您看一下郭孔華是家裡控股的董事長2023年開始他擔任北京的政協委員郭惠光也是郭孔華的姊姊2023年擔任上海市的政協委員我今天要提起要問請教兩位到底這個郭氏家族的政協角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3112.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3134.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
在我們政府的認定它是否已經就是實質的中資當時我們認為港澳投資台灣是基於一國兩制高度自治的這樣的一個前提之下現在的時空背景已經轉換了2019年開始香港已經完全失去了自治中國全面掌控政治人事法律體制 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3135.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3164.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
也就是說現在的港資是否還是當初我們認定的那個時代的港資如果現在的港資已經不是當時認定的港資那現在的港資是否就等於中資如果是等於中資的話我們的經濟部我們的投審會甚至我們的國科會在對於科學園區的物流倉儲被紅色產業鏈全盤掌控的時候到底政府能做什麼你們會做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3164.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3185.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
你們有沒有發現這個問題來 部長報告委員因為我們跟中國的關係是兩岸關係條例那跟港澳是港澳條例它是兩個條例不一樣那這是不是港資就視為中資我想這個還要跟陸委會做討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3187.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3216.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那至於您剛才提到家裡大王這件事情事實上我們都有一直在關注那您剛才那個圖表面上看起來他好像是用家裡控股他去控台灣跟台灣跟香港是不一樣的但是是不是有實質控制權這個部分我們現在正在實質的調查這個部長我覺得你這個回答太過軟弱了他當然是有實質的控制權順豐控股都已經直接入主家裡家裡控股公司他掌握他的股權 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3219.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3237.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
如果是你這樣子的邏輯的話那你們過去投審會在處理港資跟中資的問題就不會是這個邏輯囉它不是投資家裡控股它是投資香港家裡表面上它是投資香港家裡它不是投資控股 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3238.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3264.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
家裡控股一樣嘛這個目前上來講的話是有一點不一樣那我問你嘛但是園區如果遇到這個狀況的話這算不算國安層級要去處理的所以我們現在就是說這個還沒有釐清之前包括你們什麼時候可以釐清包括科學園區的物流或是藥品的送這個買賣物流的話我們就不讓他乘坐了 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3266.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3268.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
你什麼時候可以釐清 來 國客會 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3269.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3298.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
跟委員報告 園區的廠商對於相關資訊的外流或者是營業秘密的保護有非常嚴謹的做法那對於物流公司在科學園區的廠商物流公司是一個自由市場那剛剛講的科學層物流是在園區裡面有租地所以對於它的資安的查核我們定期科學園區管理局會針對它的資安是否有外洩的進行查核所以這個部分園區會盡適當的能力來把它做好這一番有關營業秘密保護的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3298.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3325.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
你們講的是後面的查核嘛很多的資訊流通是直接雲端上傳就回到中國嘛他能不能掌握台灣的產能波動能不能掌握台灣的產線壓力跟出貨的節奏能不能掌握原區裡面什麼時間什麼物料往哪邊送給誰送給哪一家廠商如果他能夠掌握這些東西的話那他其實就是掌握台灣半導體的實際駕動率啊他其實就是掌握台灣的這個國防供應鏈的實際的動力啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3328.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3340.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那你告訴我你後面才去做查核他第一時間雲端就送回去啦你們有沒有去注意到這個問題很顯然的沒有嘛我覺得你還是消極的在做這件事情嘛國科會你有沒有做過風險評估有沒有你是後面做查核那你在前端這一個你現在如果發現這個問題你們應該早就發現這個問題了啦有沒有做過國安的風險評估那你的風險評估報告內容是什麼你覺得他沒有具他不具備國安的風險所以還是可以繼續讓這一家公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3358.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3382.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
持續的持續的做那如果是這樣子衛福部他們為什麼要立刻停掉衛福部因為涉及到醫材的部分這個由衛福部來處理醫材很重要對半導體的我們這些材料的物流難道不重要但是因為他半導體是台灣的護國神山這些不重要是是這個部分因為整個半導體產業的能夠乘坐物流的公司有非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3383.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3401.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那所以這一家公司其實所佔有的比例它是不是能夠掌控到所有的資訊其實沒有辦法的整體的包含優比數包含所有的物流公司都可以乘坐園區的廠商主委 副主委你們國科會在掌握AIAI什麼東西都可以做得到是 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3402.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3426.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
物流業者每天在科學園區裡面這樣跑你覺得他掌握不到嗎你覺得他掌握不到嗎他如果把所有的公司串接起來你覺得他掌握不到嗎那你們我覺得政府的這個國安的警訊這個安全的警訊系統似乎失靈耶我是不是能夠請國科會請經濟部包括你們的投審會認真研究一下這件事情一個禮拜內 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3433.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3442.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
一個禮拜內可不可以有一個評估報告出來跟委員報告其實我們一直都有在關注這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3444.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3471.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好如果你们有在关注的话可不可以给本席一个你们现在关注的这些进度报告这些安全报告如果是只有说你有在关注就没有回答到委员的议题是啊所以他希望你们一个礼拜将你们演绎的方向再跟委员顺便说好吗你现在有在关注你关注的内容是什么你觉得你现在的对于国安层级的研判是什么安全性的评估是什么包括未来的投审会 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3473.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3491.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
對於港資是否等於中資對於他的整個投資台灣的內容報告安全程度的危害是不是都能夠做一併的報告出來可以嗎 部長我們現在手上有的內容因為一個禮拜我們會整理給委員做 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3494.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3503.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
OK 好 謝謝好 那就陳柔委員所說的一個禮拜將她所提問的議題跟委員來說明清楚謝謝來 接下來陳理事長委員 謝謝接下來我們請楊瓊英召委諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3525.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3527.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
謝謝主席 楊秀英發言 邀請國發會國發會委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3537.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3565.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
主委早我们政府全力的在推动AI指导但是算力的基础设施背后的能源成本似乎被刻意的来淡化但是据我们媒体报道在5月30号的时候国家高速网路与计算中心的三部超级电脑一年电费要多少主委你注意到这个新闻吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3567.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3587.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
主委你在推動AI指導你是很重要的推手你怎麼連媒體在5月30號所報導的這個訊息你都不知道那你怎麼樣能夠去預估呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3588.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3605.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
就部件呢本集告诉你据媒体的报道他是说这三部超级电脑一年的电费要破亿元再以台积电的用电来看2023年是230亿度那么预估在2030年的时候要330亿度 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3608.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3628.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
單一個企業幾乎要佔據了消耗了全國11%的電力隨著企業大規模的導入AI的訓練跟運算需求我們的國力 電力 綠電 水資源的缺口也正在擴大甚至出現綠電被大廠買光 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3635.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3651.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
綁了買光的一個壟斷現象但是政府到現在你沒有提出算力能源的評估標準也沒有跨部會的去協調能源的預算所以導致 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3653.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3680.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這個面向也就是產業盡力努力去衝但是能源不夠用那AI的戰力可能會從國家的戰略變成是能源的黑洞所以本期首先要請教我們政府要全面的推動整個算力作為國家級的一個基礎建設那麼國防會你現在面對面對這樣子的超級電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3682.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3695.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
AI的訓練中心跟先進製程的一個極速拉高電力的需求的情況你認為整個的能源總量的控管你要做怎麼樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3697.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3723.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
预估 评估 布建 请说说跟委员报告就是说其实经济部在对于中长期的用电已经有把这个部分纳入考量那所以就是说预估来讲的话未来十年纳入考量你连我们国家最重要的国家高速网路与计算中心的三倍超过这个三部超级电脑一年要增加多少你知道要增加多少吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3726.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3748.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
這個經濟部的資料裡面他有考慮他們預估每一年大概會增加1.7%的用電的成長本期告訴國發會主委既然你的主責要推動AI指導你要怎麼樣去提出明確的能源總量管控以及配套你們會不會提出啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3749.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3776.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
這個部分我們會跟經濟部跟國科你什麼時候要提出我們會盡快盡快是什麼時候請告訴我們因為產業一直在前面衝但是他很害怕到底我的電力夠不夠算力超級電腦請做說明你們預估什麼時候會提出這個部分我必須要跟經濟部跟你說的很快是什麼時候你告訴我一個時間點 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3777.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3797.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
因為我要跟那個經濟部這邊所以你的頭腦所謂的很快是隨便答一答你沒有時間點嘛 是不是不會是什麼時間點我也沒有辦法給委員很明確因為我必須要跟那個經濟部這邊沒有辦法給本席嘛你也沒有明確的時間點嘛好 那我們請經濟部長來 我們一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3803.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3823.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我们前一段时间本席跟廖院长中心院院长讨论过电要从哪里来而且我们看到2030年是2800亿度2050年是5000亿度而且廖院长说还不止大概是2050年大概6000亿度 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3825.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3840.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
但是他認為這個數字是沒有加入剛剛本席跟國防會主委在討論的算力以及超級電腦的這個部分喔是沒有喔所以本席也請問了廖院長你支不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3841.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3870.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
核二核三重启的这个立场他是支持的他明确的说支持而且他说台湾不止台湾的技术还有国际的技术我们是有能力的这是廖院长在教育委员会的时候回答本席的议题因为我们知道加入了算力加入了这个超级电脑我们的电力务必跟原先的一个规划是不一样的它是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3870.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3886.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
它是增加的所以為了不讓我們的產業在前面衝怕能源這些電力是不夠的所以本席來請教請教那麼部長重啟核二核三您的立場呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3888.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3904.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
行政部门是依法行政您的立场呢核管法已经修了嘛让我们可以有这个依法对而且送到你这边啊送到行政院啊合下来了没有他说这个礼拜要合啊上次你答复本席的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3905.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3911.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
對不對 你們台電送給你們你們要給這個行政院嘛你告訴本席 上個禮拜告訴本席說這個禮拜行政院要簽準跟不準嘛 簽了嗎今天禮拜四耶 簽了嗎12月初啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3923.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3938.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
你说下个礼拜怎么可能12月初到贷对不对为什么会这样子呢在这边都有录音录影我们希望好好的给你们力量去协助民众发展我们的产业 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3938.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3956.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
又來了一個盡快剛剛國發會主委告訴我盡快我問了最後他說他沒有辦法告訴我時間那現在你又來一個盡快那在你的立場因為廖院長已經正式的在教育委員會答覆本席那請問您的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3958.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3976.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
您不支持朝這個方 依法行政當然所以我們也改了這個法律嘛那所以本席再一次的請教你您的立場 因為我們需求量很大而且政府也說採開放式的態度去看待核電再重啟以及核電的新技術 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3979.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3998.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
對 那你的立場支不支持核二核三在安全無力的範圍之內呢那麼重啟核二跟核三來增加電力對 包委員您剛才講說安全無意所以我們現在就在12月初之前我們就看看那個如果安全無意可以大致上可以完成我們就會簽核然後就會開始啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3999.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4027.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
好所以方向是一致的也就是依法那你們會行政院你要趕快去追啊因為他追了之後你還要後續要檢查我們還是要安全啊那如果在安全無慮的這個情況之下您經濟部長的立場是同意合二合三來做這個重啟增加我們的定力三個原則就是合安合肺跟共識嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4028.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4051.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
现在就是把核安真的赶快做好好那刚刚这个我们有共识那请教刚刚国防卫主委您说要问经济部那么这个算力超级电脑我们增加这个理当政府就一定要超前来部署那什么时候可以将你们预估的这个电量管控评估 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4053.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4070.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
請告訴社會大眾 給本席我們2032年之前也做了一些估算那當然國會他們也有一些規劃剛剛本席已經告訴你那沒有加入沒有加入超級電腦也沒有加入算力啊國會主委在你身邊啊他說他要問你你要讓他問啊我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4071.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4099.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
你知道要什么时候吗我们都会滚动检讨你请告诉我们一个时间点因为产业很急一个月一个月内告诉本席你们的怎么样去计算怎么样去布建一个月内告诉本席接下来本席要请教我们的速发部速发部跟经济部请留下速发部谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4103.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4120.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
速發部AI人才的培育是國家數位轉型非常重要以及產業升級的關鍵命脈政府當然責無旁貸必須要去帶頭推動但是我們現在AI的人才在國家級的檢定經濟部是IPAS |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4121.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4145.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
IPAS的部分剛剛部長也說了今年度你們一萬四千人一位部長一萬四千人去報名然後有六千五百人通過那初期的部分上個禮拜本席也跟部長在討論也就是你們將初期的部分初期來考試考為中高級所以你在初期的公布通過的認證是38% |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4147.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4163.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那其實這個部分是希望能夠全面的去推動抒發部我們這個部分是不是台灣既然要成為AI人才島那我們更應該全面去推進嗎是不是 抒發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4164.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4179.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
是跟委員報告其實除了經濟部他們就是經濟部處理的這個iPath這個認證之外本席請問你我們既然認為是AI的人才培育是國家數位轉型跟產業發展的關鍵命脈 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4181.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4197.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那我们是不是各部会因为你现在没有一个统筹单位嘛各部会散布在各部会你让他们去做嘛但是我们要看他的成效啊所以这个原则是不是应该全面全民去推动是不是是是完全是嘛所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4198.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4213.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
他們現在要繳4000到6000元的學費那考試的部分大概1300塊但是我們看到你的認證的部分大家認為教學的品質以及過時的教材這個部分是不是應該要去精進方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4223.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4242.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
跟委員報告 這個部分因為是經濟部這邊處理的不是經濟部處理 是職策會現在本席所說的是職策會你是抒發部啊 你怎麼會就推到經濟部呢我們單位主管敬請各位各盡本職既然你要散落在各部會 你就應該要負責啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4243.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4265.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
是不是 所以針對你的這個教材針對教學品質 本席具體要求你書發布要好好的去精進好 精進方案給本席那部長 上次本席告訴你說你考試要公佈答案呢你現在公佈了嗎 什麼時候要公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4266.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4292.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
就是考完以後就會公布你沒有公布啊 你到現在還沒公布啊大家都在等啊一個禮拜 一個禮拜為什麼可以這樣亂答呢本席上次就跟你討論這個問題我們既然要全面的推動你也答覆本席說要公布到現在還在那邊牽扯還在那邊牽扯 還不公布跟你答的跟做的完全不一樣你怎麼樣取信於人民呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4294.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4321.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
AI的認證這麼樣的重要為什麼要胡亂打連你在現場答覆說要公佈答案到現在還沒公佈什麼時候要公佈一個禮拜以內現在開始的一個禮拜還是上個禮拜的一個禮拜現在現在開始好我們有錄音錄音我希望你盡快公佈還有公版的教材因為你剛開始部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4322.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4329.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
你剛開始你要公本的教材你給社會大眾大家一起來學習這才是我們要的嘛 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4330.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4357.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
是不是蘇發部部長 經濟部部長為什麼各部會 既然政府現在還沒有辦法去統一那你應該各部會你必須將你的材料 你的教材你考試完公佈答案你不公佈答案我怎麼知道你給我通過跟不通過是真的還假的為什麼政府要做這樣 連這個都要詐騙不可以如此嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4358.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4386.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
經濟部長 您說一個禮拜內公布嘛因為你中期的快要公布了希望 本期希望你公布答案啊這本來就應該公布的嘛讓大家有所學習嘛 對不對教材的部分我請一定要去精進讓大家全民推動我們才是一個真正的AI之島嘛請照剛剛所說的時間點據此作出 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4397.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4400.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
謝謝 我們現在請鄭天才委員請鄭委員選擇召委 有請經濟部長還有勞動部的代表好 我們請兩位 謝謝鄭委員早好 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4425.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4436.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
好 今天我就先引用這個國發會的報告國會的報告裡面特別提到這個國發會這個要會同 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4441.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4466.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
會同協調國科會還有經濟部、速發部、教育部、勞動部等相關部會共同推動AI新十大建設而從智慧運用關鍵技術與數位基礎三大面向最重要的就是加速產業升級以創新轉型擴大產值創造高薪就業的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4469.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4494.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
所以這樣的一個AI新時代建設就是要培育新世代人才培育產業始作人才當然這邊有提到延展專業人才所以很重要就是經濟部跟勞動部當然跟教育部也有關係也有很大的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4497.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4525.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那經濟部當然很多除了中小企業還有更大型的企業服務業 製造業等AI運用及AI新秀AI市產線計畫吸索產業 蓄積人才實力現在都在做了 現在就是當然因為我是原住民的立委那我們原住民的勞工普遍都 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4527.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4550.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
这个在制造业或是营造业积多了那这样在其他的中小企业或是其他的这些产业就比较少所以如果也有的时候所以经济部这边能不能救这个有原住民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4552.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4578.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
企業也能夠有相關這些重要的這些延展人才或是相關的訓練企業自己辦的訓練的時候能夠鼓勵他們也能夠將原住民的這些他們的職業能夠納入當然很重要的就是勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4580.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4607.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
勞動部你們在辦理的時候你的報告裡面有提到為加強人才韌性鼓勵勞工自主學習新知推動產業人才投資方案再指勞工參加經審查核定資物聯網大書記及人工智慧等實務課程所以你們在擠辦的時候就是能夠特別能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4610.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4624.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
保障這個原住民的名額這個這樣的話無論是經濟部或是勞動部共同的去推動的時候原住民也能夠在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4626.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4647.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
AI的这样的一个产业能够被纳入然后相关的他的就业他的薪资当然就会跟着增加劳动部可以先说明一下谢谢政委员的指教原住民朋友相应的所需我们一定会尽全力来加以协助那我们在 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4648.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4666.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
AI這一邊其實政府各部會根據AI的使用開發跟研究不同的面向教育部、經濟部、勞動部、速發部、國科會、國發會通通都會一起來努力那就勞動部跟經濟部而言 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4666.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4680.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們其實針對產業所需要的人才他們會透過iPath我們會透過iCAP去把AI所需要的部分透過智能基準的開發去做相應的處理原住民朋友過往在製造業 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4683.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4705.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
营造业现在又有一大部分在服务业那就劳动部的角度而言使用AI可以预防灾害降灾减灾在职安位上一定会有比较多的琢磨那这一部分会有助于援助朋友的职场安全卫生那至于技能落差的部分不管是在企业内部的办讯 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4706.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4735.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
人力提升计划或者是说技能方面的衔接或者是相关的部分我们都会来提供必要的协助那如果将来在开班的课程上面我们也会鼓励原住民朋友来参加那个很重要的其实就是你在相关的这些简章的时候有特别明定的话才会有特别这样的一个相关的 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4737.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4752.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
譬如說地方政府的勞工單位或是相關的你們的地方的你們所屬的地方的這些機構他就會主動去 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4754.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4769.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
去邀請就會鼓勵他們參加這部分對原住民朋友因為我們如果匡列一定的名額有些時候如果原住民朋友剛好沒有這樣的需求就會變成名額浪子但是我們針對原住民朋友來參訓的時候我們會加分優先錄取 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4772.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4797.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
不是 你可以寫優先 優先多少的比例如果沒有人報名 當然就其他人那額外要更好啊那這個部長可以嗎我們方向也是像勞動部這樣來辦就是鼓勵啦 用鼓勵的形式啦但是要不要用硬性一定的比例 這個我們再來研究看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4798.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4821.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
不是保不是說一定要而是說你有列出這樣的話這些基層的或者是中小企業他就會主動去有沒有就是有這種鼓勵的一個性質所以這個部分在推動青年訓練這方面尤其是你們這邊也有提到那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4822.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4851.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
这个失业的对不对你们的劳动部也有提到所以这个部分是不是往这方向去去推动的话所以对于这个你们在推动青年的训练提升核心竞争力这方面尤其是这个即将就业的这些比如说15岁到29岁你一开始就有这方面的规划的时候自然 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4854.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4871.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
自然而然相关的企业或者是说尤其是地方政府你们的这个在各地区的就业服务机构他就会去主动因为有这样的一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4873.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4901.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
一个名额的或者是说优先的时候他当然就会往这方面如果都没有写的时候就会被忽略因为我们很多都是会原住民就是那个资讯就是传达的时候都已经来不及了会有这种情形甚至我们来加强这个部分就请经济部跟劳动部这个不会没有说一定要怎么样就是不要影响到 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4902.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4929.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
原來的計畫但是能夠有優先的一個機會好不好好謝謝謝謝好謝謝鄭委員接下來我們請也是鄭委員曾振權委員請做詢問謝謝主席我想先請一下那個我們國發會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4930.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4932.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
好 我們請郭芳蔚主委 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4936.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4965.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
委員長主委早因為今天主席安排的一個題目其實非常的切合現在台灣那個需求有關台灣未來競爭力支持AI時代台灣如何贏得新的人才戰那我想說因為跟人才有關的議題其實非常的多因為人才的部分包括我們台灣自己培養也包括從國外那個去延攬去搶人才那我想說所以今天我們來的單位非常多除了國發會之外還包括我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4967.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4995.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
經濟部 國科會 教育部 勞動部等等那我想說我一開始的時候 先來講一下整個國際纜財的一個問題因為經濟部這邊直接講 之前曾經講過說未來4年的時候 台灣要有20萬個AI人才那這樣工作人員投入那這量非常的大 其實台灣的教育體系完全沒辦法直接培養出來這麼多的人那事實上說過去這幾年因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4996.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4997.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
整個美中貿易戰爭的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5000.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5028.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
問題喔再加上長期以來就是一些華裔研發人員台裔研發人員在美國這個環境當中會經常碰到一個隱形玻璃天花板的一個問題喔所以說從2018年開始的時候其實很多很多的美國的一個高階的研發人員開始回流中國大陸跟其他的地方那事實上在光是2023年一年就有 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5029.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5036.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
超過4000名高科技研發人員回到大陸去那我想說台灣在這一波AI的一個全球 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5038.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5061.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
競爭過程當中也扮演非常重要的一個角色那我之前曾經問過一個有關於那個Tarantai One的問題就是國發會這邊有一個國際纜財的一個平台可是這平台非常的被動他就是弄成一個網站之後讓大家自己來點選那我想請教一下國發會主委我們國發會在這邊有沒有更積極的一些動作在做國際在搶奪人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5063.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5088.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
在爭取人才到台灣來可不可以請主委做一個具體的說明謝謝委員這個部分的話跟委員報告就是說像Talent Taiwan這個部分的那個網站其實我們已經有在做更進一步的一個優化譬如說原本都只有英文跟日文那其實我有跟同仁講說其實這個還不夠就是說你要有比較多的語言在裡面譬如說假如說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5089.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5112.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
除了AI人才之外有一些譬如說像中階的一些工作的話我們可能會從那個新南向這一邊進來即使是AI的話我們也會鎖定在那個印度這一邊所以相對來講的話我們這個Talent Taiwan的這個部這個部分的網站的話其實我已經要求同仁這個就是我上次講的部分我們這個Talent Taiwan的部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5113.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5129.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
被動的等著大家來點選我說我們有沒有更積極的去爭取比方說我們在矽谷 在Boston這邊會不會有一些相關的一些招攬人才的單位去獵頭讓更多的人願意到台灣來 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5130.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5156.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
來壯大台灣的一個AI生態系有 跟委員報告其實我們也有透過那個Lindit這樣的一個網站那這個網站裡面儲存了大概10億筆的那個全球的人才那我們在這個網站裡面我們可以經由我們鎖定的一些領域那去點選完了之後的話這個網站就會跟我們講說在哪一個區域裡面這一類的人才是比較多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5156.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5179.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那就AI人才這個部分來講的話我們發現就是說美國跟印度比較多那美國這個部分其實我們也有鎖定那我們在那個美國矽谷其實有一個StartupIsland Taiwan這樣的一個據點那我們也充分利用這個據點去延攬譬如說像喬二代啦或者是像海外的一些校友那其實都有在做一些連結以及辦一些活動那把台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5180.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5209.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
需要的一些AI的人才都僅有這樣的一個機會好 謝謝主委你剛剛特別提到喬二代這個部分我也特別關心因為台灣其實坦白說有很多優秀的小留學生他們很小就出國去可是當他們到了一個職場的一個就入職場年紀會碰到一個兵役的問題所以在這邊的時候我想請教國發會我們是不是有評估評議過兵役的問題還有一些他們的配偶跟子女的入境居留就業 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5210.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5237.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
還有就學的一個問題對我們在纜財當中可能會碰到一些阻礙那我們這邊有沒有針對一個部分做一個跨部會的一個整合來試圖解決這樣的問題讓更多可能是我們的小留學生到國外去或者是一些國外的一些人才讓他們能夠更順暢的到台灣來否則的話很多比方說他們如果說是國外的人到台灣來如果他們有另外的一半配偶的時候那 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5238.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5251.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
如果他們不是高科技的人士他們可能在台灣是找不到工作的我們會不會有一些相關的一些配套來讓這些AI的高科技人才能夠更友善的到台灣來壯大台灣的生態系 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5253.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5270.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
就這部分跟委員報告我們在Talent Taiwan這樣的一個網站其實我們會提供一站式的服務也就是說只要我們接到案件的話我們會詢問就是說你對於在台灣居留你發生什麼樣的問題比如說我們比較常收到的一個狀況就是說他在金融 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5271.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5300.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
在銀行要開戶的時候他要怎麼開那這個部分的話其實我們都有後續的一些設計就是說只要進來那我們就可以協助他去在銀行開戶主委這個部分不只是發掘問題因為這邊現在台灣有一些是因為制度上的不夠友善讓很多人走不進來我剛剛提到兵役就是其中的一個環節那我們怎麼樣的方式能夠透過國發會的角色做一個跨部會的部分讓台灣在這個部分能夠更為友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5301.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5317.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
因為病疫問題涉及到舉這個例子啦那我剛剛包括講說配偶的一個工作的問題 路徑的問題小朋友的一個就學的問題等等甚至包括有些外籍人士他們如果到台灣來說小朋友都要再做一個相關的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5318.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5343.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
學員的一個證明確定他是一個確定是他的一個子女等等的一個動作那我們會不會有一些跨部會的方式做更友善的一個制度上的一個改變而不是只是發現問題而已有就是說這一個部分我們Talent Taiwan不是只有我們國發會在做其他的一些部會假如說有碰到一些問題或什麼都可以透過這個Talent Taiwan跟我們反映譬如說像在 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5344.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5372.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
徵求一些國外人才的部分的話我們也跟外交部配合那外交部現在就是說外面的那個要申請進來的譬如說像數位有目這一塊的話原本是要用資本的那我們現在已經跟外交部合作說他是不是可以由線上直接申請那就委員提到那個配偶的問題的話我們在今年8月通過那個攬財專法裡面有針對特賺的配偶這個部分的工作的話其實是有放寬的OK |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5373.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5388.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
好 謝謝主委那我接下來我要特別提到一個跟教育部跟我們速發部這邊可能有點關係的部分就是台班怎麼樣去培養就是既有的一個人才那事實上從那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5389.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5417.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
NVIDIA其實在台灣要落腳的時候他們已經開出年薪550萬在搶人才所以竹科這邊也出現很多人才移動的一個潛在的一個因子那事實上就是台灣這邊的一些人才AI人才其實顯然是不夠的那就很多的數據都提出來那我這邊要特別提到就是說人才不夠的部分還包括教師荒的問題那我們要怎麼樣透過AI來補足教師荒不足的部分尤其像理科的一個教師人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5418.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5436.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那有人提到說那可能就是用那個提高薪資的方式可是坦白說你不可能只提高理科老師的一個薪資所以這問題是一個很全面的所以我在這邊同時提到幾個問題一個就是整個人才培育的問題那我知道教育部這邊有一個接下來有一個四年的一個AI教育計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5437.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5454.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那我理解這個狀態可是我要特別提到的一個點就是說在整個我們AI教育當中的時候可能會出現有一些AI的一個資訊的一個不正確的問題所以說事實上包括BBC他們之前就曾經做過一個研究報告就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5456.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5474.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
AI生成出來的新聞資料當中的時候有45%是有問題的是不正確的就有AI資訊錯誤的一個問題然後事實上在美國這邊的時候歐洲這邊也出現了很多的一個AI的一個跟生成式對話語言的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5475.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5488.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
會導致他們出現一些心理上面一些問題所以自殺的問題變得非常非常的嚴重然後再加上最近在台灣有很多AI生成式AI自動生成的一些醫療網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5490.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5509.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
然後出現很多的醫療詐騙的一個問題AI詐騙的一個問題那我想這些問題都是我們在做整個AI生態系在人才提供的過程當中我們要讓整個AI生態系更完整的過程當中都會碰到的部分那我想針對這部分先請教育部這邊簡單回應一下剛剛有兩個部分都跟教育部這邊有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5512.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5538.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
謝謝委員指導我想在中小學的部分我們現在針對於課程教學學習的評量以及在作業的使用生成式AI其實已經都有相關的注意事項提醒老師跟學生要注意一些重要的原則另外我們在今年年底12月的時候我們也會有中小學使用AI的一個應用手冊會納入更多一個實際的範例來讓老師跟學生在 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5538.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5541.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
学习过程教学过程中会有更好的一些参考依循 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5543.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5569.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
因為AI它能夠模仿 能夠關心可是它沒有辦法真正理解情緒啦它可能可以陪伴它可能會產生一些誤導的一個狀態就像BBC他們研究整個新聞甚至是AI出現的狀態有45%的一個錯誤所以AI教導孩子可能會有一些知識的部分可以提供給他們可是可能也會模糊他們對判斷還有現實的感知尤其是現實感知的問題我覺得這非常的重要所以也希望說我們教育部在 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5569.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5583.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
整個推動我們AI教育當中的時候對這個部分能夠特別的去重視因為這是一個很長期的一個問題而且如果發生了之後他是一輩子的問題好不好 針對這部分我們都特別去那針對那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5585.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5607.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
整個AI詐騙的部分我剛剛特別提到有關於比方說醫療網站詐騙因為很多視頻一出來都是百萬人點選那很多老人家可能就很容易被詐騙那目前我知道數位部這邊的時候他們可能有一些相關的一些計畫在培訓老人家可是量遠遠的不夠這部分可不可以簡單做個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5607.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5627.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
是 謝謝委員就這個部分我們其實從今就是已經在做的是一個叫數位鬥陣區的一個計畫那到各個城鄉去持續性幾乎每週的辦活動那我們未來明年也會擴大跟更大型的活動合辦另外也跟在地的也希望跟在地的這個民間組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5629.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5656.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
包括各式各樣的民間組織甚至像是老人安養中心然後廟宇這些那去推動讓老人家能夠更有機會去了解這些風險那我們目前的這個不論是教材或是比較親民的這個遊戲這些方式其實都已經洗背了那明年會用更大規模的就是更和民間合作的方式去推動這件事情OK 謝謝因為那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5658.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5672.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
詐騙是現在台灣所有人民心中最不爽的一個部分所以我們希望這麼多AI生成式的詐騙的部分我們數位部這邊能夠扮演更激烈角色來防詐騙這個部分好不好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5686.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5690.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
好來接下來謝謝我們請賴立仁委員請做詢問謝謝好謝謝召委我請速發部的侯正志請速發部好市長好我先請教一下其實總統在昨天有提到了就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5714.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5742.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
因為中國對於台灣始終做滲透啦那當然他希望能夠來這個滲透台灣甚至達到他想要的一個政治上的目的那所以當他這麼做他又是一個威權專制的國家的時候所以他所製作出來的一個深層式的AI就會存在包括有強迫同意不合理的一個隱私條款包括過度的收集個資還有逾越使用權限的一個等等資安的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5743.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5751.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這個部分束縛部有沒有掌握到我們是知道的那你們掌握到什麼樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5753.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5779.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我们其实已经有提出这个就是我们在资安方面还有在这个AI的评测方面都已经定了就是测试的面向和一些测试的框架那在这一个从提供各个行政部门单位去做根据他们的职长可以去做验测那在这一个目前委员秀出来的这一个这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5780.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5805.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
其实是国安单位根据我们这边的这个验测框架去验测的一个结果所以中国大陆这五款这五款的部分都是有涉及到这个问题是不是是的但我可以特别再跟委员说其实因为中国的这个生成式AI模型他们必须要符合中国的相关法律所以他其实在 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5806.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5828.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
實際上撤之前你大概就可以預期他會有這樣子的狀況因為他有國家要賦予他的責任嘛所以他一定是要接受他才有可能國家才有可能要這樣發展因為在大陸那邊他其實有很晚就是會要求要那這樣的話我們要怎麼樣去讓他不會對我們造成這些資安上的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5829.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5853.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
第一個我們在這個就是公務機關這邊就是已經很明確的禁止所以公務機關是禁止使用這五個中國大陸的AI生成式的就是關於中國製的這個模型我們是禁止使用的中國製的全部都禁止公務機關全部禁止那其他的部分呢其他的就企業跟一般人民的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5854.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5881.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
怎么样去让他们更清楚的了解这里的风险就企业跟一般人民这个当然检测这部分的事情我觉得是非常需要那我们在未来推动上也会持续性的其实我们会做相关的这个验测的发布目前这个AIEC这边也有做验测的发布那另外像是对于就是业者的这个还有使用者这边的提醒我们也会持续 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5882.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5909.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
去處理書包部可能要更積極的不斷去示警讓企業 讓一般人民知道就有可能你使用的這些中置的AI的話有可能會產生裡面的包括隱私的問題甚至你的個資被洩漏被蒐集甚至於你的使用權限被逾越了但甚至有可能你會被取得更多不應該被取得一些資訊因為它並不是一個安全的一個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5910.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5934.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這個部分我希望速發部要定期的發布定期的提醒因為唯有不斷的提醒的時候所有的企業所有的國人才會更謹慎小心使用這些那我再次請問一下那你們會認為會建議國人來使用這些的這個生成式AIM嗎中國這些生成式AIM嗎以速發部的立場當然會認為說這是有一些疑慮的 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5937.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5941.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
但是对于实际上业界他们因为应用场景的不一样 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5965.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5981.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
开源模型的状况底下呢业界它可能会在他们需要的这个成本效益的考量底下他们会去做他们得要自己去做判断我希望市长刚刚讲这些东西因为因应不同的有不同的需要特别在教育系统它有可能被 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5982.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6004.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
認知作戰甚至洗腦的話那對於會產生影響那類似像這樣的當然就有的企業上是不一樣我希望美季的部分至少速發布能不能定期的就你們所掌握到的資訊發布給國人跟企業知道好不好就是再不斷的提醒因為這樣的事情當我們在第一線面臨到第一線的這個這些威脅的時候甚至於整個滲透的時候那 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6005.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6026.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
政府部門也必須扮演一個很重要的角色那至少在公部門當然不能用但是在民間的部分在國人部門要不斷地示警他們讓他們知道這件事情可能嚴重而不是等到了事情發生了以後然後他們的重要的個資被洩漏甚至於他們被整個所有的一些被掌控了之後然後才發現政府為什麼從來都沒有提醒過我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6027.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6056.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
好不好 我希望美季能夠定期來提供就你們所掌握到的資訊提供給7N國人那再來我請教一下其實世界各國其實都有注意到了這個中置AI的一些風險那有些甚至於是全面的禁止使用甚至於或者是提出包括像美國 德國 義大利 荷蘭他們對於這種中置的AI的這個有發出一些有的是禁用的 是避免使用的部分那台灣的態度呢我們的態度呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6058.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6065.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我們會考慮未來朝向如果對於確實有產生很重大的治安危機國安危機的部分會考慮有禁用的考量嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6066.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6093.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
在某一些特定的狀況底下在法律授權的範圍內我覺得這是可以被考慮的好 我希望這個部分將來要審慎的思考進去然後就有些很明顯的它是具有的統戰任務或具有的認知作戰任務的它是很明確的那個部分其實應該因為我們是第一線我們是第一線的被攻擊被攻擊的對象的時候甚至於被滲透的對象的時候我們應該要有更強的防衛機制這個要不然其他世界民主國家覺得你台灣為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6093.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6109.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
對這一塊似乎沒有進行你該有的防禦當其他國家都在防禦的時候你卻沒有我們看到很多啦有些很明顯的包括他的這個政治立場甚至於他可能做出來這個台灣不存在啦或者是台灣屬於中國的一部分啦或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6110.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6125.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
台灣不是一個國家啦或者是六四天安門這個字眼是不可以出現顯然他很多是具有很多的被政治篩選過的他只要你看到他要的東西而已他並不是全面的甚至於他會刻意去篩給你 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6126.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6142.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
他想要給你看到的東西我認為這個都是會影響到我們整體的整個運作的我希望甚至於更嚴重的是未來如果他滲透成功他甚至有可能發出網路的攻擊在關鍵的時刻他發動網路攻擊他掌握到你更多的一些資訊的這些的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6146.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6164.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
輕的是發動攻擊戰抹黑戰重則直接進行更大的網路性的攻擊而這個都是我們應該在速發部在政府部門要必須要做的防衛機制我希望這一塊未來都要不斷把它訂定出來甚至於提醒國人注意我們會更積極在就是用所有的資源去 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6165.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6183.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
我希望這件事情一方面我們在發展我們的AI但是一方面我們也要去保護我們自己的這個國家的安全好不好這個我希望每季能夠看到你們有你們該提出來的一些東西出來我們再看一下中國政治AI的這個檢測你看這個這麼多的紅點全部都是不合格的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6184.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6198.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我想這個你們也是你們有所擁有的資料啦也是國安這邊有資料全部都是都是充滿了很多的問題所以我覺得以這樣的狀況來看是必須要很認真面對中智的這個AI的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6199.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6219.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
好不好我希望每季能夠看到你們的一些要求再來我想一下因為台灣其實在我們AI的一些評比上面其實表現是中上的其實大家也都認為那我們很關鍵在於優勢在於我們的一些基礎建設或者整備等等都做得不錯但是我們的法令的部分跟我們相關的這些反倒是比較慢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6219.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6234.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那包括我們的創新技術也有所一些退步那現在因為我們有一個人工智慧基本法現在也在院裡面要審這些部分如果我先問一下次長預定什麼時候可以來通過你們期待什麼時候通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6236.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6265.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我希望委員支持也能夠盡快盡快嘛對不對現在已經在月裡了我們也希望朝野也支持這個對於整個未來人工智慧基本法它的發展重要特別現在是全世界都在發展AI的時候這是一個很重要的法那我們希望盡快通過那同時間我也希望通過之後剛剛幾個重要的那些的我也希望未來軟硬體的部分都能夠更持續來加大讓我們的在AI這一塊是有更強的一個國力的那現在普遍大家也能看好台灣是具有這樣的能量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6266.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6280.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
好不好那我们希望速发部跟各部会继续加油希望我们台湾在这一块能有更好的一个成果好谢谢谢谢委员指教我们更积极谢谢好谢谢接下来我们请陈超明委员请做询答 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6291.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6316.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
謝謝主席首先有請國科會師傅職委還有我們經濟部管部長還有國華會我們的葉執委我請國科會的師傅職委站中間來回答我很少用 PowerPoint 在委員會執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6318.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6343.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
但今天我逮到了一個機會剛好三個人碰在一起我要好好的討論這個問題也希望你們真正解決這個問題但是我的感受很深剛剛我聽到陳田惠委員在執行南部大溪谷計畫的時候我們執委都帶著微笑是是是我會全力推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6344.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6372.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
但是說到陶瓷廟大溪谷計畫在苗栗的時候你們都愁眉苦臉今天師傅指委我的標題很清楚陶瓷廟大溪谷計畫請國科會要勇於擔當勇於認識在這我一定港部長當經濟部長又當行政院秘書長我拜託也沒有一個的缺點 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6373.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6400.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
夏洛我跟你講過幾十遍了不要忘記我你要忘記我你就曉得我期待在哪裡那我們的葉執委你的劉全執委他卸任以前早上7點鐘給我一個night說感謝我支持國安會但是他跟我很抱歉一件事情就是職燃科學M7第二期的推展計畫他沒有協調成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6401.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6416.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
你一上任我也請你來幫這個忙好 你說好 好到時候看不到人影只看到綠色的委員你就是看到藍色的委員就好像都搖頭不是啊我們心態要改這是國家中大的建設計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6418.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6437.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那四十位行政院在113年9月正式核定陶瓷苗大矽谷计划最积极最认真最努力就是我们苗栗县我们中东景县长就开始发动一直发动都准备好了在那边 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6438.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6454.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
因为苗栗县是创建西部科技走廊的一个关键它可以接连台中可以接连了新竹科学研究你非常的清楚这个是一个快保定所以我们一直在推展地方投资苗栗也是最好 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6455.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6471.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
現在廟宇管有三個土地厚隆科技產業園區那經濟部 郭次長承諾而且答應了 會再實現擔任主管機關是為目的的主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6473.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6499.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
第二塊在自然科學研究以東的產業研究那日現在都是計劃通盤檢討已經在進行之中再來就第三塊自然科學研究擴大案就是自然科的第二期目前仍然沒有主管機關這個交工是國科會要做但是我跟師傅指揮其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6503.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6520.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
新竹科学园区开发 职丸科学园区开发我都有参与过阳文科 县长在当土地子执掌的时候我就参与过 他了解这整个情形我现在要叫你们国科会担任主管机关你们不敢答应 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6521.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6548.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
尤其你新職課的一個留職長你的要不然做就推出去 推出去真沒辦法做事情去內政部請一個專家來給你指導怎麼做你不要只帶著我一下我不喜歡笑我喜歡真的實際的解決問題你們都沒想到辦法要怎麼來改革我提出了一個方案請國科會有擔當你們不來做也沒關係你們沒有那個領域也沒關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6550.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6570.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
你們是科技人才 您說這個地方我不熟 也不要請那我請國科會擔任主管機關你們可不可以苗栗縣政府來開挖這個是一種方式啊不要一碰到問題不想辦 只想要拿國家的土地台南的土地來做科學運區亂來勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6573.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6601.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
對的困難就沒什麼改觀所以你國科會只跟大學那些聯絡計畫領導在做什麼科學研究室大家打拼出來也不是你國科會的你要推展一個大的計畫要大的氣泡要想辦法解決一個困難第二個不然我們改由經濟部擔任主管機關由美國立憲政府開發轉由國科會來給你們使用那你辦法也不會讓人家去想 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6602.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6624.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
你們困難就知道 你們要怎麼做有各種方法來不然剛才這樣說 我說沒辦法做 我要怎麼一直排進我的希望啊 職客人要留職長換掉不做事情 做那個位置啊 你要給我回答嗎我給你提倡人工方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6626.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6654.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
你要不要回去考慮那個葉子緯這個計畫裡面第二點如果改的時候你要轉給行政院啊 港部長我是千拜託萬拜託拜託你沒法 我沒想過你關車那麼大為國防衛職委跟行政院秘書長跟經濟部長那些人扭頭頭啊 理事專家這種問題都沒有辦法解決國家的大政計畫你能做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6656.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6681.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我們後龍的部分我們會把它做好因為我們已經後龍的部分後龍OK了我們對我們對對對這個我要感謝你再來竹蘭的如果你當過國科國化會主席的前政院秘書長如果有國科會擔任主管機關你們委託苗栗縣政府來開發可以不可以我可以想出來你不想不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6684.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6710.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
你正在那邊 公務員報告科學園區的開發確實是由國科會擔任主管機關但是那整塊地要是科學園區所有都需要的土地目前的竹南科的擴大的範圍因為有許多的是私地也有一些夾雜的公有土地整塊裡面出來了之後能夠做科學園區的部分其實只有一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6711.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6738.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那這一部分要等完全開發完之後完成區段徵收或者是勢力重劃或者是其他開發方式以後所取得可以供科學人去使用你們要不然你跟我說是我們都想好在等你你不要用這種理由我們專程來討論是好不好我國安會主席會來這個可以跟委員一起再來討論我跟你說你們自己說你們要不然你們走整個浪花林我們也不一定你到時候來拜託我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6740.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6757.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
不像我這樣講話啦 碰到南部的 你什麼都答應沒有沒有 因為這個部分在桃竹苗大細股裡面本來就有匡列那時候在苗栗所需求的所需求匡列進來 行政院核定你要把它推翻核定嗎對 那南部的不會是整塊的部分我會整塊給你 剛剛也有談過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6761.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6787.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
你委义乎苗栗县政府你们要多少跟我们讲嘛所以我们有跟苗栗县政府一直跟他拜托说这个具体的范围要能够划出来之后我们会划出来嘛还没做你给我们同意当主管机关我们才有办法划才有办法进行计划嘛是那整块范围里面因为只有一部分是产业用地赵伯给我多一点时间我这事情没说清楚好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6790.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6813.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我再跟委員報告這裡面的產業用地只有占一部分也許占到百分之二十但是其他的百分之八十也許有一些部分要做公共設施有一些部分要做其他的用地那這整塊裡面我三百公頃我們剩下台灣的肉地八百公頃出來你說你不要靠海邊的我給你靠路邊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6815.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6844.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
不是叫你們開始 開發費用的時候你們要的土地你們再來嘛哪有出了困難就用這樣來撒沒有 明明就是那些南部我困難一下子你們就通過了南部的範圍 南部的範圍是300公尺全部都是科學園區那假設這300公尺裡面只有180是科學園區要看這180在哪裡我們才有辦法繼續後續的可行性你讓我問出來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6844.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6846.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你們要多少寫出來你們要什麼樣的土地寫出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6858.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6887.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
不然我們哪裡動去都要用但是這個涉及到這個300公頃裡面所有的開發的設施不是只有國科會的未來可以做科學園區的部分所以它其實是一個整體的都市計畫的開發都市土地的開發我跟你講我們自己縣政府留有多少的土地開發出來的時候留有公共的土地給你們嘛民間的我們不動嘛你來談就把這個條件寫上嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6889.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6904.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
與這個主管機關的部分科學園區當然是國科會做主管機關你委託給他 大家講清楚 不同說大家要做的 我不行 那個也不行是依法的問題什麼依法的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6905.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6910.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
各級的法令我們一條一條研究你唯有給他兩個跟縣政府條件談好就可以了所以我們就是拜託管政府把整體的範圍用出來之後循都市計畫或國土計畫的方式來做開發這個是沒有問題的已經也有很多案例是這樣來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6929.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6958.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
不然我們管政府說很困難你們自己說不像去做使館習慣不困難 譬如說目前你現在要叫我第一步怎麼做 跟我講清楚是為了範圍出來範圍確定出來之後做可行性評估包含土地所有全人願不願意參加驅散徵收或試地重發的開發方式願意 願意 你們都不知道要怎樣行唉呦 你們弄嚇到我你小時候來拜託我因為在科學學院我說要拜託我可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6959.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6973.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
簽了75%我才答應替你們推動一個月裡面超過75%寫同意現在人家要做什麼了你們都不了解而且國有土地一大片在那一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6975.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6994.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
空著浪費 你自己想想你的立場不想整體發展的一個立場好不好 這個我一定 你要沒我來找你葉子惠 如果我要改變方式的時候你要報給行政院 那港部長會請你幫忙不要變有藍色啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6995.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7021.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
南部的立委跟你講 你就笑嘻嘻的 我跟你要求你好像苦瓜蓮一樣 我心裡寒耶沒有 後龍我們會做好好不好 一起努力啦這個核定的計畫是你當執委的時候送出來的嘛你當國防部執委送出來的 國科委啊 勇於承擔 勇於認識不過做行政官的一個資格啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7022.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7042.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
會啦 我們都一直很勇於承擔啦但是還是要依法來進行那好 下來關於AI司法部的我一下子就好我把AI你們目前遭遇的困難保證啊 主委啊副主委 要給我擔當啊要給我來做啊 不然這樣丟地啊跟他講得很好聽啊還有經濟部啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7052.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7080.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那AI新十大建設是AI政策裡面最重要的現在有四個部位抱歉 因為戴耳機我一直覺得很懷疑一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7082.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7108.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
你们事发部是产业应用那由事发部来主导那经济部是百工百业落地的应用到底是什么两只车子啊一个是产业应用跟百工百业的落地应用我要怎么来选择什么叫做产业应用什么叫做百工百业落地应用你跟我清楚嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7112.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7132.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
跟委員報告 書發部這邊主責的是AI數位的產業登峰我們會聚焦在關於軟體支付業這邊的能量的提升你那邊屬於軟體的 是 支付軟體業經濟部的白宮白院是屬於什麼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7133.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7147.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
就是AI應用在這個百工百業裡面比如說製造業或服務業所以你們這叫做站在分店沒了解產業沒地方去做過不然去企業裡面去模擬去找找過你們這樣感覺說噢 漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7150.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7166.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
这里面很重要目前台湾里面关于开发导致使用AI有三种人才那技术开发台湾有什么问题懂得使用AI的人会不会现在里面困难在哪里 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7167.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7193.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
就是懂得AI的人不懂得产业完全同意是所以你这AI要行你的软体要成要跟产业的技术一个结合你才有办法落地生根是所以你现在两个部门这样在我不晓得谁在负责大家抢经费抢得很厉害市会部的产业抢了很多钱拿了很多钱软体的运用来 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7194.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7220.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
你去做AI最重要它在那個深度的學習所以你要懂得AI也要懂得產業技術的人才有辦法讓AI落地生根你現在曉得嗎經濟部誰對這個那樣現在要懂得AI又懂得產業的技術你只要去到工廠他怕把這個技術外流出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7222.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7244.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以會遭遇到很大的一個問題技術外流第二個我如果AI機械人會了你不請我了所以都保留起來都套上保底這是我們要面臨的問題那經濟部尤其技術師跟產業發展史這個地方你們要琢磨深一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7245.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7261.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
我不曉得世衛部在軟體裡面到底你軟體出來 你要怎麼去應用要怎麼讓機械人能深度的學習好像人的這樣懷念好不好 注意一下啦不要一個產業的應用一個白宮 白地 陸地的應用我感覺這甲就很壞 甲能做好事啦 甲能提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7270.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7297.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
对 就是我们跟经济部这边会有密切的合作因为我们从上游的这个大型模型录下来这样子我看起来是构想其事就听听就好看我们的表现国家花了那么多的钱我希望能做出效益出来谢谢 谢谢主席讲得太久好 谢谢陈超明委员我也请主管机关单位因为这个都是国家很重要的产业方针跟这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7300.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7311.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
藍圖必須要去執行所以在答覆的時候也請尊重所有的委員委員剛剛陳昌明委員說的是希望他的大細股到底要哪一個單位可以去當主席辦單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7314.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7339.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
但是部長您回答經理部長回答說我喉嚨我會做好他喉嚨就已經ING進行式了本來就一定要做好的跟剛剛陳昌明委員所提問的是不相關另外一個議題所以我還是在這邊主席台在這邊因為我們經濟委員會非常的溫和而且是針對於國家的重大政策以及執行大家用心的來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7341.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7353.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
因為這裡都有錄音錄影我不希望說答覆的部分跟委員的提問它是不相關的就要拜託大家一起為產業加油謝謝接下來我們請邱志維委員請做答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7365.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7375.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
謝謝主席 是不是請國安會葉主委然後經濟部龔部長好 謝謝邱委員選擇 來請國科會書副主委請三位 來請 謝謝其實我相對不是很溫和但是我很堅定的有毅力切而不捨這個想請教三位就是三位對台積電2奈米這個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7393.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7400.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那這個如何避免類似的狀況再度發生 有沒有做過討論請問部長 請問主委 請問這個次長 有沒有做過相關的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7407.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7429.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
對 那因為那個法的位階我們已經提高了嘛原來是營業秘密法現在提高到國安法嘛這個發生當然對我們先進製程會有很大的衝擊影響評估你們也要去了解一下先進製程的部分那如果避免類似的狀況再發生一定要跨部位 那個葉主委你的微笑一對 葉主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7430.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7455.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
因為就看了一下資料其實第一個跟委員報告就是說跑去Intel那部分我有朋友在台積電工作他是說其實台積電他們內部對於退休的人員其實在退的一兩年他就會把他調到一個跟不會去接觸到很密你也是台積電的董事是 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7456.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7462.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
所以他其實在一年多前已經被調到不會接觸到很核心的感覺那是內控的問題是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7463.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7492.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
是個人的問題不是內控的問題是他個人的問題對基本上就是說他是不是有copy這件事情的話就是讓那個台積電或者是剪掉自己去查對於我們的那個技術外洩這一塊的話我想大家應該對台積電還蠻有信心的不會因為一個人一個人就會影響到台積電對先進製程的衝擊應該沒有那麼大對那這個1.4奈米1.4奈米我長期都希望說能夠在高雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7493.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7521.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那高雄有兩個點 南市產業園區跟這個白浦產業園區那我當然希望說能夠分散就是說這兩個地方距離不遠那白浦的交通更方便那有五個廠已經在南市產業園區希望再有一個廠在這個白浦產業園區我想這個包括廣布長 包括葉主委 包括蘇市長你們對這個事情都很了解目前的可能性如何各位有沒有跟台積電提出建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7523.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7549.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
因為我都詢問過我都請教你們三位你們說好你們會跟台積電建議到底有沒有建議呢未來可能性如何我們是還沒有放棄我們還繼續爭取有沒有這個可能性第一個就白府那邊的話那個震動可能會有一些問題就是說它土壤的那一個部分好像比較鬆軟一些那這個部分可能要請廠商自己去做一些評估這樣子那個是誰做出的調查這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7552.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7569.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
是國客位嗎廠商對於所有每一塊基地是不是適合他的所有的廠房跟機械設備的承載他會做適當的評估這個部分其實百普一直有跟這個相關需求的廠商來做建議看能不能納入確實也在評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7571.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7591.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
所以白虎也是平估的这个场子之一继续讨论这个AI人才培育这个国家会你们预估2028有35万对不对你们报告我看经济部报告说已经培养了10万人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7592.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7608.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那人才有包括研究包括開發也包括這個應用人才所以這個缺口你確定這個可以在2028把它補足嗎而且這個人才35萬會不會太少了一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7609.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7636.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那個主委因為我們其實預估2040年是50啦那2028年缺口35那35其實有分兩個部分一個就是說智慧應用這個部分那另外一個就是關鍵技術那根據那個速發部的調查在那個下面那一個那個叫做數位記憶盤這個部分來講的話每一年大概會需求大概3000到4000左右所以整個加起來的話在那個智慧應用這邊的話我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7637.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7654.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
预估 粗略的预估大概需要15万那中间的那一个关键技术这一块的话也是大概15万左右各单位包括这个国贸也包括经济部包括这个国贸也包括这个速发部各单位都提出这个人才培育的这个相关政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7655.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7670.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
要整合的應該是國發會而且整合出來之後你對各部會在執行的狀況你要有一定的管考包括會不會真的機械需求跟你培養出的人才沒有辦法match這是一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7672.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7693.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
这个我们都有持续的在做管考那同时我们也会依照那个速发部给予的那个AI人才数字是很漂亮但是是不是符合产业界的需求这个我们也会跟对我们也会跟工协会讨论另外那个高阶的AI人才这个招募的问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7694.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7721.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
你看這個你們的國會的報告裡面跟這個包括未來三年重點人才調查跟推估還有數位經濟的這個服務產業報告這些你看看這個政府相關的這些AI的發展這個能力已經到了很吃緊那你未來這個高階的AI人才這個怎麼樣對產業界的核心需求能夠對應 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7723.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7739.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
這個國會有那麼更具體的說明一下就這個部分來講的話我們分兩塊一個是國內跟國外那國內這一塊的話我們會希望就是說利用教育部的系統尤其是在那一個大學這一塊那我們希望大學這一塊的話能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7740.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7761.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
能够提供一些比如说像AI跨域的人才这个部分那在那个国外揽财这一个部分的话其实我们也跟很多部会在做协作比如说像教育部教育部他自己本身就有一个您提到国外揽财我就继续问你这个外国专业人才6000人当然今年是 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7762.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7782.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
達到多少 達到5700那你另外協助這個對接計畫這對接計畫你們要有1000人的這個目標就一個都沒有對接計畫這個部分的話我們113年的話有跟那一個部分國外的那個專業人士聘僱許可一個都沒有掛鈴 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7785.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7797.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
你目標是要一個協助國際人才對接我國產業跟實習計畫1000人的目標所以國際人才沒有辦法進來你看你是零我們這一部分還是有提供一些相關的一些服務為什麼會掛零我對接產業的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7800.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7820.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
對啊 你目標一千人不可能說一個都沒有一個都沒有原因到底是是因為我們這個工項的計畫經費有被刪減不過我們還是有在天然台灣這邊對於產業的一個需求我們有提供相關的服務如果他們需要人才我們會協助來延攬 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7823.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7846.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
好 另外這個比較中小微企業要怎麼樣做這個數位轉型我這個一定要提供足夠的誘因那補助 當然政府要協助補助那這個目前預算編列21是編列在中企署是編列在三發署是中企署還是三發署好 請我們有個別的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7848.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7876.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
三发署也有中信署也有我大概统计了一下整体的经费大概是20亿是不是20亿是总和那是总和对那目标是2万家那当然受理的状况不错大概有1万7千多家那明年呢明年这个计划是不是会再持续下去会持续事实上我们也利用了那个特别预算的部分事实上也会有加码 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7877.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7903.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
你看到這個傳統產業或中小型企業這個數位的轉型跟AI的這個人才培育很重要你看這個股票市場到三萬將近三萬點那一半的指數都是這個AI跟半導體貢獻的那個傳產包括石化鋼鐵 扣件等等這個都比過去一萬二的時候這個股價還要更低 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7905.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7918.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
所以比方說你這個產業發展是失衡的所以如果萬一發生有人說的什麼AI泡沫化或半導體需求這個過硬太多造成我們競爭力這樣沒有關係了我很快 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7925.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7951.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這個怎麼樣把這個中小微企業跟這個傳統產業的AI跟這個數位轉型能夠做好這很重要是否則他們永遠停滯在過去的那種競爭力根本沒有辦法提升嘛是 這就是我們政策推動的最主要的主軸我看不出有那個強力的資源跟協助或者預算的協助有啦 如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7952.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7975.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
如果是个别厂商他的升级转型的话他只要提出一些看法我们甚至以后如果加上他买新的一些AI相关的设备的话其实我觉得执行面你们来做预算面你们来编但是整个国家战略计划怎么样中小微或者传统产业再生计划这应该是国会会来主政 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7975.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7999.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
提出一个比较全面的思维然后你在下达各个战术给各部会教育部 科技部执行我们是会执行落实的一定要重视这个问题是谢谢谢谢接下来我们请谢一峰委员请做询答 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8001.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8019.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以我說我們經濟文化很溫和的來 信任委員請我想要請工部長還有葉主委葉主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8023.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8047.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我先就教你們 你們兩個昨天很硬對不對在那個政大金融演訓院你們說怎樣 沒有台灣病是不是經濟學人 你們剛經濟學人嘛 對不對你們兩個說沒有台灣病啊 是不是我是說台灣的經濟發展不錯 他應該是一個模範生 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8049.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8075.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
台灣的經濟沒有生病所以你否認你延遲批判經濟學人指稱我們有台灣Disease對不對沒有這個東西台灣Disease沒有台灣沒有病沒有病那他提到的是我們的匯率長期的被就是低估他認為我們應該要升值嗎你覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8080.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8091.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
他的意思好像是這樣子但是我不曉得他真正的意思他的意思是這樣所以你認為台灣的產業現在還是以出口為導向 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8093.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8119.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
還是我們應該要發展內需型的產業以台灣的市場有沒有辦法發展內需型的產業出口為導向是對的所以未來台灣還是要走出口為導向的這樣子一個國際市場為主沒有錯國際市場為主對不對所以你認為台幣合理的匯率區間是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8120.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8132.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我沒有辦法認定 這個是市場來決定的你現在是經濟部長啊國防組委站在你旁邊 你們兩個怎麼那麼硬你們現在就講啊台灣以出口為導向合理的匯率區間是什麼我們沒有操縱匯率嘛但是你以經濟部長的身份而言你要講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8148.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8162.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
匯率匯率不好啦那個因為央行的組織我不好在這邊沒有這跟他沒有關係你講你的他講他的你講的他也不一定會照做啊是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8163.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8178.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
你為什麼不講因為匯率來講的話事實上從過去到現在台灣的匯率說實在話相對於其他國家你現在是經濟部長喔你知道嗎你不是國發會主委喔等一下國發會主委要講他的喔你經濟部長要講經濟部長的喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8182.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8202.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
對 我是說以匯率來講的話台灣相對於其他國家相對是比較穩定的那其他國家事實上有上上下下的確是這樣但是也沒有因為其他國家上上下下影響到說台灣在國際間這個出口事實上表現很好的這個情形對 所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8203.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8225.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
事實上顯然匯率它不是單一因素可以主導這個出口的好壞就好像我們今天是出口好是因為AI這個情勢大但是對於傳產而言匯率事實上關係不大你說的是AI 半導體他們不會受到就是說第一個他們公司大他們甚至於海外的避險多 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8226.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8255.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
但是對於傳產中小企業而言匯率對於他們來講就非常的重要所以這一直是傳產以及我們中小企業長期以來對於我們匯率這是經濟部長要去對央行提出的要求嘛 對不對所以我在央行理監事會我是希望我一直要求就是說要維持匯率的穩定因為你波動太大的話它報價都沒有辦法報 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8257.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8280.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
一下子漲太多一下子跌下來那這樣的話報價沒有辦法報這個生意也沒有辦法造尤其是以中小為企業以製造業為主的話這樣是不好那七大工業國他們也說就是說基本上政府是不應該干預匯率的但是如果因為匯率波動太大的情況之下這是排除的這是可以介入的 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8282.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8299.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
那我也表達對我也表達好那我們問一下葉主委啊葉主委你在你有參加央行理事會嗎我沒有你沒有是不是所以你對匯率欸你昨天不是說了嗎台灣沒有沒有那個啊沒有經濟學所說的那個Taiwanese disease |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8299.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8328.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
因为其实经济学人有一个很大的一个他可能没有考虑到就是说其实我们的出口的那个结构在三四十年前跟现在的出口结构其实完全不一样那你假如说拿三四十年前的那个论点要适用到现在其实有一点点不是那么合适啦我的感觉是不是那么合适那现在我们的整个出口的那一个那个品项啊产品啊其实是比较属于特殊性比较高的就是说其他国家生产不出来的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8328.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8347.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那傳產裡面也有特殊性高的這個部分嗎我是說你不能夠以半導體來講那傳產中小企業它並沒有所謂的特殊性的問題尤其是我們目前的這個機械以及就是我們現在的這些傳產的這個裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8350.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8368.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
怎麼樣子紡織業而言你怎麼樣子有就是說就是除了匯率以外還有其他的替代性因為跟委員報告我們台灣在三四年前其實大部分集中在傳產那經由這三四年之後的話我們其實半導體相對的比重比傳產多一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8369.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8386.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那即使是在傳產的話也有一些產業其實它有在經過一些產業升級譬如說像紡織紡織的話它有一些就開始去用一些環保的素材像以前譬如說像在FIFA的時候的話他們那些運動服其實都是我們做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8386.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8401.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
所以其實類似這樣一個獨特性的產品其實不會因為匯率的差異性而會影響到它的出口同時很多跨國的企業其實它本身都有在做避險所以另外一個就是說在結構上面來講的話你講的會不會是大型 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8402.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8426.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
第一個就是我們的外匯市場裡面的結構裡面的Player其實成分都已經跟三四十年不一樣也就是說廠商拿到錢不見得直接把它換成台幣它有可能存在國外的戶頭或者是說他直接去買美元買美債去做避險所以你可以看到說最近這幾年那個台幣通常持穩在一部分的一個區間有一部分原因是因為這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8427.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8449.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那你再去看我们那个整个外汇市场的那个player的话其实你去看真的是从贸易方面去为主进入到那个汇率市场的话其实比率相当的比较少一些大部分都是国际的资金的流动所以那个部分其实对于我们的汇率的影响是比较大一点但假如说 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8451.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8476.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
經濟學人認為是我們出口然後是因為匯率然後導致出口這個連結關係相對比較沒那麼明顯我的意思這樣子你是認為說匯率所導致的應該不是因為說我們的出口會成長這你認為不是因為匯率的關係是所以是因為我們產品的這個有關係尤其是像AI這一塊因為他其實別人沒有辦法生產那就只有我能提供的話那你匯率高低對我來講沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8476.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8503.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那我 对啊 你都还是回到半导体啊你们两个都还是在半导体啊你们还是要关注传产但那个传产这个部分其实有啦因为有一些传产在最近其实都已经在做一些AI的一些转型好 那我再来这也是你们两个的议题啦就是说今年六月的时候我们所谓的就是要培育AI的人才就是在国内的大学或硕士毕业生是一加二嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8503.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8526.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那東南亞的那個外籍生是2加4嘛那這個部分是不是你們還會繼續做2加4那個部分我們會跟教育部合作變成2加22加2新型障礙專班還會持續做就是橋外生的部分是2加2 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8528.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8541.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
對 僑外生來 2加2沒有錯對 外籍生嘛然後東南亞的外籍生是2加2是不是對 一樣是2加2然後那個1加2的方案的話就不做了是不是1加2是我們國內的對 國內的部分的我們還會持續推動也會持續推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8545.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8564.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以都會持續推動嗎所以未來這個就是我們的一家沒有因為換部長所以怎樣那個國發會就人在培訓還是會持續只是說資源稍微做一個整合就是說原來是2加4好像進一步要自己做那現在我們就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8565.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8579.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
用2加4是經營部要自己做我們現在變成2加2事實上跟教育部事實上是合作那是有什麼樣的改變你能不能說明一下部長2加2就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8581.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8609.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
这个学生在国外他念了两年书以后到台湾来再念两年书那我们给他一些奖学金然后给生活费但是他要在我们台湾工作两年工作两年对好那一加二呢会做什么改变吗一加二是台湾的学生那个毕业以后受训一年那一样是会留在那个单位两年这样子 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8610.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8622.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
就是那那個企業要先給他錢嗎當初好像是說企業先給他錢現在呢是我們政府會付這一個部分我們政府先給他錢然後企業後付是不是對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8624.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8646.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
是不是所以所以這個部分也會維持好謝謝那我想要請問這是剛才好多位委員也有提到的就是我們現在就是速發部所講的我們的這個AI人才面臨的就是數量不足跟需求不符就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8647.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8673.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
現在他們要的就是馬上可以上手的這個AI人才但是我們目前到底我們計畫在推動多久以後才能給予這樣子產業所需求的人才其實我也有去看過我們產發署以及技術師他們所導入的就是經濟部所導入的AI的那個就是供應的那個生產鏈AI導入的生產鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8673.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8695.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
但是我發現它非常高的強度仰賴就是說你要去一直給予AI的電腦要在資料庫Beta DES裡面一直要給予他們不同產業別的數據當然汽車零組件的有汽車零組件的數據工具機的有工具機的 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8698.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8716.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
紡織業有紡織業的數據那這種數據的培養需要一段期間那你們到底什麼時候我們的資料庫才能夠建就是說整建完畢然後整個可以協助企業因為現在企業人才已經進到這裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8718.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8738.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
可是我們其實需要的是一個怎麼樣子把這個Database可以建立然後對於這個中小企業你真的能夠給予協助還有傳產能夠給予協助那這個人才以及這個資料庫才有辦法回到企業這個東西需要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8740.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8754.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
因为不同的企业或不同的产业实际上它对AI的需求有些不太一样有些企业它事实上它本身AI程度已经很高了所以我们培训它或者是给它协助的就会比较中高阶的 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8755.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8778.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
但是有一些企业基本上还没有导入AI那我们给他就是一些初级的那他们的人员授训也是比较初阶的那这个部分等到满足如果有下一步的需要的时候他要进阶到中阶或高阶那我们会给他额外的再加码再做训练是一步一脚印的这样的情况那所以我就说了你们现在这个iPad到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8779.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8806.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
有什麼作用你們發揮的作用如何IPS基本上是是給數位發展部來就是說給一個什麼專業的人才認證但是到了這些專業人才認證到了跨產業的這個領域裡面的時候到底有沒有發揮作用是IPS基本上它是一個訓考用一個三者合一的一個平台那 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8807.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8833.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
除了我们经济部之外教育部也有参加劳动部也有参加就是说通过训练完以后一个认证机制这个认证机制怎么样跟产业界做结合甚至于这个班要开出来的时候我们都会去问这个产业工协会他们觉得有需要这样的这些AI的规划师设计师以后我们来开这个班然后说过减定的机制通过以后那他们也愿意训练如果在职的甚至于他还给奖励金 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8834.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8846.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
而且甚至可以加加薪就是鼓勵他們員工來受這樣的一個訓練所以它就是一個訓考用結合起來的一個機制我最後還有一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8848.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8869.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我覺得就是這個是我們看到這是英國獨立媒體他所發布的全球的AI國力的排行裡面我想請問為什麼我們又你看新加坡是第三名為什麼我們又是21名工部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8875.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8889.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
我們的半導體我們的出口比新加坡強這麼多為什麼我們的AI排名新加坡是第三名我們竟然是21名因為我們是生產AI的伺服器還有半導體是非常強 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8891.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8908.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
但是這個算力的建造還有這個應用我們就是要加強現在我們AI新時代就是在做這樣的事情不是 是你為什麼我們在這個軟體的應用上面會這麼差就是希望經濟部 國發會還有國科會等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8912.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8933.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
你們共同來協助產業導入嘛不能說我們只有半導體強他們需要政府的協助低我們就給予他們協助低但是其實我們忽略了AI未來要應用AI不會泡沫化最重要的原因是在應用嘛 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8935.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8954.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
是在應用嘛那你的應用一定要導入所有的傳產所有的機械業所有的中小微企業裡面啊 是不是對 現在就是在做這樣的事情所以我希望政府能夠在不同的產業別都能夠導入那 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8956.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8974.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
不要讓我們的AI 我們竟然是半導體為主而且我們AI的生產是全世界冠軍那甚至現在連川普總統都認為我們就是囊括了所有的這個晶片的產量 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8974.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9002.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那既然我們有這麼強的時候我們竟然沒有辦法讓我們的傳產我們的中小微企業都能夠享受到我們在AI發展的這個優勢那這個紅利現在沒有外溢到我們中小企業沒有外溢到我們的傳產裡面是不是所以我們現在就是要努力什麼時候可以你預計啊 目標啊什麼時候超越新加坡 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9005.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9033.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
主席 什麼時候我們只能說我們加油 我們努力這個會錄音喔 什麼時候超越新加坡你要有信心啊 葉主委有信心你講葉主委你講 你們兩個主委很硬啊快點講這個真的需要努力啦什麼時候超越新加坡還是努力什麼時候啊 目標盡量縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9034.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9060.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
縮短什麼時候 一年一年好不好一年有沒有辦法很難啊好 加油請我們的這個官員不要在上面嬉笑好 兩年可以嗎兩年可以嗎 超越新加坡可不可以朝這個方向趕快去努力好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9067.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9090.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
好 接下来我们请局副委员谢谢五分钟 谢谢谢谢主席有请我们经济部龚部长国客会副组委还有我们教育部朱长士我们请三位 谢谢许万豪 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9091.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9105.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
部長副主委 次長好我想這個我們行政院也正式宣布了這個大南方的大南方新矽谷的一個S狼帶那當然南高坪是重中之重的一個發展重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9106.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9123.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
那我們這個行政院主委院長這個圖面上我們包含鞏部長當時擔任行政院秘書長的時候有來屏東參加台積電半導體供應鏈進駐屏東科學園區的一個活動那我想這個屏東不管是水電土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9124.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9144.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這些相關的資源都非常的豐沛那我想也是未來能夠發展這個高科技產業很重要的一個縣市那這個部分我想這個部分我們會努力來加強但是也需要我們中央部會的大力支持那首先我們請教我們副主委我們目前屏東科學園區招商的狀況目前進度到哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9145.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9168.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
目前屏東科學園區所有公共城的部分都在如期的進行當中那廠商的部分進駐也有好幾家廠商已經核准進駐那目前剛剛委員所提到的這個供應鏈的這個也已經有三家廠商已經在進行申請入區的程序或者已經獲核准後面還有好幾家那所以目前的進度應該都是照整個原來科學園區發展的進度在進行 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9169.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9186.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我想我們這個南高屏的這個發展的一個生活模式也好產業發展模式也好是緊密相連所以在這個整個未來包含小港機場這個能夠擴大包含我們未來有高鐵要南沿屏東我們有高屏二塊的動工跟我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9188.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9203.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我們的那個平南快速道路的陸續的一個進度我想未來交通的建設改善之後我們也希望引進更多的一個高科技產業那尤其我們希望我們在地的子弟能夠在地就業在地學習那除了這個之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9204.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9223.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我們當然知道目前我們這個南科的產值已經超越中科跟主科那除了這個屏東科學園園區之外我們也期待屏中就是我們在這個未來南周勘定我們有很多的台塘土地有沒有計有沒有計劃能夠再做第二座的科學園區的一個規劃跟我們報告在 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9225.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9236.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
不管是在大南方信息股或者是桃竹苗信息股裡面都有相關的潛在的產業用地在做適當的一個準備但是最後還是要回歸所有科學人去回歸到產業的需求我們會做適當的評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9238.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9259.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
副主任我想沒有先規劃就來不及部署我想現在很多我們的很多廠商也都在找地你不給他適合的用地他當然不可能會進駐屏東我們應該有做這樣的一個超前部署的一個打算那除了這個產業的規劃之外更重要就是一個高科技人才的一個培育那目前我知道教育部跟國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9260.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9283.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
有核定了这个争取包含阳明交通成大台北科技大学跟冯甲大学有做一个相关的一个太空工程的一个研究所那我们最近我们国科会也同意在我们屏东的九鹏我们要为了要设立一个太空中心那我们品科大是一个很好的一个发展的一个大学院校教育部门能不能提前来规划做这样的人才的培育 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9285.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9308.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
跟委員報告目前我們已經有連結平哥大跟屏東大學透過大手吸小手的方式希望跟在地的高中跟普高跟技高一起建立一些科普基地甚至我們可以針對我們重要的像AI或是像我們機器人智慧製造這個部分來做一些課程跟人才培育的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9310.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9337.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
次長我想這個還是必須要從小扎根所以我們期待從這個國小開始就是有一些AI教育的一個融合是幫我們自己的老師也要精進然後包含相關的設備到位還有我們一些科展競賽的一個推動我想要讓小孩子從小接觸這樣的環境讓他們知道說這個我們未來屏東有這樣的一個產業發展我想這是一個很好的一個契機這可不可以繼續來努力這一塊好 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9338.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9347.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
謝謝委員指導我們現在就是希望說先以在地的高中作為基地那向下去連結國中小那向上是由大學這個部分投注 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9348.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9370.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
实作的一些场域跟师资一起来带动谢谢韦子我们会朝这方向来努力好我想最后请教我们龚部长部长我们在野党上个礼拜强行通过了这个光点的一个修法那我们国内六大环团发表了一个联合声明对于未来这样的一个加盐管制恐怕扼杀了所有一个绿能发展的一个进度 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9371.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9399.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
那我们过去有提到2050年我们的能源配比再生能源的比例要达到60到70%部长这个目标会不会受到影响短期间看起来是会受到影响就是那个时程上原来我们是希望就是再生能源发电占我们比例可以在明年11月达到20%那因为通常一个环境影响评估大概都是会到至少会一年到一到五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9399.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9421.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
最快的情况之下那显然应该会受到多少会受到一些影响部长我想这是一个很严重的问题绿电不应该被污名化那我们当然支持对于不法的业者减掉应该要严办但是对于合法业者的一个保障我想我们政府部门也应该要有这样的一个态度要不然未来什么人敢来到处大家现在都丢车在那里 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9422.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9438.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
看不到未來啦真的啦以後未來包含高科技產業你需要水需要電我們根本都跟不上這些進度未來怎麼辦部長能不能有一個比較SOP比較一個強制的一個合理的一個做法讓所有業者有所規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9439.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9460.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
是对因为现在法通过我们当然要按依法行政但是我们还是会希望把这个做一些分级如果看环平的这个程序我们会跟那个环境部来沟通一下是比较简易的不止环境部应该包含农业部包含农店渔店都应该要有一个相关的SOP让业者有所遵循 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9460.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9480.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那你們也應該要嚴格監督不能讓不法業者有所不法的部分我們現在跟法務部已經有一個平臺合法的業者你應該要呼得緊合合盤嘛未來我們才有綠電可以用嘛好一起來努力好不好好謝謝好非常謝謝接下來我們請黃國昌委員請做詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9493.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9496.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
謝謝主席 麻煩有請速發部我們請速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9510.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9526.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
市長之前在質詢的時候我揭發了我們的速發部全額補助給我們的國家自動安全研究院為了醫療攻防演練OT場域建置的標案裡面有違法的履約有不實的驗收 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9528.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9551.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這個補助的經費來源 雖然上一次被選的時候 部長一直請國家自動安全研究院的院長代答我也都尊重都讓院長答但是部長應該要對這件事情有所了解 特別是這件事情非常非常的嚴重因為前是你們速發部從台灣資安卓越深耕 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9552.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9571.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這個前瞻基礎建設計畫裡面編6.5億裡面的經費來的這不是資安院自己處理就可以了我上次在尋答的過程當中面對部長也好面對院長也好我把整個履約不實的過程我把它全部都談出來了12月25號辦驗收的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9574.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9602.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那個時候簽程裡面的內容就記載不實了東西是舊的但是拿假的新品證明書出來東西是舊的拿納稅的錢結果履約的時候拿舊的東西結果拿假的新品證明書出來這件事情上次質詢的時候全部都質詢完了我那時候覺得很狐疑因為東西是舊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9605.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9632.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
卻有新品證明書那個是用眼睛看就知道了 不用鑑定一看就知道這東西是古的啦卻有假的新品證明書好 再往下看那天院長我質詢的時候 因為啊我揭發完了以後啊洪祈昌啊發聲明罵我說我不實指控新潮流的大佬很厲害 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9635.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9663.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
造假驗收還發聲明罵我說我不實指控既然有人說我不實指控啊那我當然要請教治安院治安院證實兩次驗收繳的都是舊的還拿新品證明書要蒙混過關我接下來發生到發現讓我更覺得離譜的事情來請請市長看一下這個公文 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9665.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9690.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這是你們的公文裡面講因為12月31號確認東西是舊的還拿假的新品證明書要求廠商1月6號前完成改正現在的問題是12月31號發文出去要求廠商1月6號前完成改正你知不知道廠商有可能在1月6號前完成改正嗎警司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9698.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9717.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我個人真的不知道他們能不能夠完成改正你覺得治安院知不知道訴發部知不知道我認為訴發部應該不知道我今天質詢的重點就是要跟次長報告訴發部的同仁從頭到尾都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9718.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9742.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我再說一次速發部的同仁從頭到尾都知道不可能在1月6號完成改正次長你現在露出了困惑的表情說我怎麼敢這麼斬釘截鐵的說速發部的同仁從頭到尾都知道請看下一張一樣國家資通安全研究院在12月31號同一天喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9744.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9773.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
上一個函是說1月6號要完成改正嘛同一天發函給速發部發函給速發部啊 說什麼說啊我們要辦經費的保留因為上一個年度的經費沒有用完要繼續挪到下一個年度 要辦保留嘛在保留函裡面就已經講了說要到3月31號東西才交得出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9776.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9799.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
左下角這個是公文公文上面寫得很清楚要3月31號東西才交得出來代表什麼書發布的人早就知道1月6號前是不可能改正完成的資通安全研究院的人也知道不可能1月6號改正完成最快也要3月31號 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9801.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9814.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
因為沒有貨嘛他要3月31號東西才交得出來嘛所以我說速發布的人3月31早就知道3月31號東西才交得出來理由是在公文裡面白紙黑字就已經這樣寫了膽大妄為膽大妄為從頭到尾上下交相賊明明知道不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9830.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9859.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
在那個時間完成還在裝忙啊裝忙啊設假的daylight你要補正完成喔早就知道他絕對沒辦法補正完成但沒有關係我們提供很貼心的服務什麼貼心的服務我早就知道你沒有辦法補正完成了我早就知道這個廠商在胡搞瞎搞了但是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9860.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9886.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
國家資通安全研究院還很貼心的趕快跟他申請跟速發部說經費要保留市長你現在聽懂了嗎是你聽懂了嗎好我現在的問題來了上一次部長跟我說該怎麼辦法律上該怎麼辦就怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9888.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9917.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
法律上該怎麼辦就怎麼辦結果你們回給我喊的內容我現在看到的是第一個沒有懲處為什麼不懲處因為現在廠商在外面放話講得很大聲我們從頭到尾這樣子搞國家資通安全研究院的人都知道他們從頭到尾都知道我們要這樣搞都喬好了啦大家配合演一場戲 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9919.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9945.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
大家配合演一場戲啊結果沒有想到會被揭發這樣要怎麼懲處大家都講好了啊第二個也沒有解約第三個也沒有停權第四個也沒有移眾法辦我們的訴發部到底怎麼了我們的訴發部到底怎麼了 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9947.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9975.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
面對這個違法的事情只差沒有跪下去而已啊只差沒有跪下去而已啊結果我們的部長在國會殿堂給我的承諾說依法該怎麼辦就怎麼辦到目前為止我們有看到啊跟委員報告我們內部確實已經在進行調查那也在進行這個簽辦的程序當中還要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9977.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10005.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
還要多久違法事證如此明確在國會殿堂備詢的時候都承認了沒關係 還要多久我繼續等下去我們應該在12月初的時候12月初12月初結果會出來第二個主席在案例 我尊重時間請以書面回覆我為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10006.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10027.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
明明就知道沒有東西了明明就知道1月6號不可能完成補正了還上下交鄉賊啊裝說我們叫他1月6號以前完成改正啊在同一天就知道他不可能完成改正還跟速發部發公函一樣保留款 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10031.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10045.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
請你們書面回覆我 好好解釋 好好解釋這是什麼情況 可以嗎可以喔 好 謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員 次長請回座我們接下來請陳培鈺委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10057.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10086.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
好謝謝主席有請國發會還有竹科等一下國科會副主委謝謝還有國發會請國發會葉主委然後請國科會蘇副主委謝謝好兩位時間我時間有限我就先快速說一下雖然大家今天談AI人才但我其實想要拜託兩位長官一起看見當我們在發展半導體跟科技大導的同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10087.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10105.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我們在地方上所看見的困境那跟國發會有關主要是因為其實國發會主導台灣的地方創生業務非常多年那未來我相信你們也會有相關計畫所以我等一下講的要拜託國發會一起承擔那當然其實主要的業務是在國科會的管理局科學園區管理局怎麼說呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10106.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10133.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
今年新的國科會主委上任的時候他就承諾說園區未來會朝向地密度開發同時我們要兼顧生態文化社區跟教育我認為主委真的非常明白在現在的科學園區可能已經產生了困境我相信主席你也非常清楚也就是當科技走在前面可是當地方的一二級產業萎縮在地的文化傳承斷層甚至有教育醫療交通的公共服務不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10134.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10153.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
導致於鄉村人口外移貧富差距擴大也就是大家認為當科技狂奔但是非常多地方的事情就停留在原地沒有積極前進我知道竹科管理局或者是國發會一直都希望透過地方創生或是連結地方團體我們協助更多年輕人他回到家鄉回到新竹我們以新竹為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10154.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10168.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
他不見得要投入科技產業對嗎他可以回到農村他可以做文化創生他可以做更多創新的服務在園區裡頭那所以呢我今天其實想要請教目前我們看到其實在以竹科為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10169.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10182.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
在管理局的協助底下你們跟清華大學還有同業工會合作你們已經促進了30多家企業發展了70多項ESG專案這個事情我要非常感謝你們也要給你們鼓勵謝謝你們協助這些園區的產業負起社會責任協助在地的產業也好文化團隊或者是相關教育團隊地方創生團隊尤其是國發會這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10194.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10222.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
所以我想要問未來我們有沒有更完整的計畫因為現在的這些專案都是有一點單一有一點破碎但是沒有一個整體的政策視野積極的協助地方更容易串接到地方的科技產業然後其實國發會這邊因為你們在協助地方創生那過去呢前面幾任主委都非常要求所謂的產值那假設在要求產值的政策視野底下我們現在如何做一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10223.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10231.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
因為我認為我們以幾個成功的地方創生為例關鍵不是產值而是當所有中央的資源沒有辦法第一時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10233.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10257.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
嚇到地方的時候其實地方自己產生的韌性自己產生的能量自己營運了一些可能性在你們前期在國發會前期的協助底下所以合起來講我今天不舉特別案例但是我相信主委跟管理局這邊都非常清楚我在說有哪些成功的案例所以未來我是不是可以持續拜託國發會這邊或者是管理局這邊積極協助我們就以大新竹地區為例 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10258.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10281.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
当一个典范当一个楷模我们来发展一个平台如何透过大学然后大学的左边可能是企业大学的右边是地方地方我刚刚讲各式各样的团队各式各样的小型企业或者是农民然后嫁接到园区这边那以大学为一个平台去发展各式各样的辅导专案也好然后大家就对接起来 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10281.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10296.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
让整个园区科学园区的发展不会只重科技而忽略地方产业忽略地方文化可不可以请你们简单回应一下对谢谢委员就这个部分来讲的话我们会也会往这个方向走就是说以大学为一个平台然后 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10297.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10318.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
嘗試去平衡產業跟那個生態然後未來我們也會慢慢調整就是說我們產值可能會是一個參考啦不會是一個對因為以產值為參考的狀況確實在這幾年看起來其實會讓地方的地方創生團隊會有一點辛苦啦當然細節我們可以再聊我們可以再來討論那園區管理局這邊要不要簡單回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10319.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10344.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
是 謝謝委員知道那國科會所下的三個園區管理局在很多的縣市都有相關的園區那剛剛所提到的包含結合廠商的ESG或者是大學的USR 企業的CSR這些我們都會一起結合來共同的來發展那包含透過園區工會透過園區管理局的產學合作機制這個都我們會持續來進行那讓地方的產業能夠發揮價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10345.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10367.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
好因为这边我希望是更有系统性的那因为今天时间有限了后续我们办公室也会来拜托国发会这边我们协助把地方创生团队的声音放进来然后在大学跟产业界的合作然后透过管理局这边我们形塑一个好的role model因为我要讲新的园区正在形成当中如果新竹园区可以变成一个好的role model我认为对于 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10368.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10389.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
想要回到鄉村裡面 做更多自己在意的事情 自己喜歡的事情不管是文化面 教育面 農業面 產業面它都可以讓這個園區的生態是更完整的 更平衡的 好不好好 謝謝兩位 謝謝 也謝謝主席 謝謝謝謝陳培宇委員主委請回 謝謝我們接下來請葉元之委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10400.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10407.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
主席麻煩請經濟部請經濟部秋球會署長謝謝那個國發會請國發會葉主委謝謝國科會一小請國科會的蘇副主委謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10424.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10443.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
好那個我們都知道說AI現在如果要投入那種鮮豔的成本其實需要非常多的資金那今天我們主題是在講人才其實人才跟資金是非常息息相關如果新創公司或研究AI公司不到沒有資金的話根本沒辦法留住人才這三位應該都同意嘛對不對但我現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10444.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10462.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
有蠻多研究AI的公司跟我反映一件事情他說現在有出現那種顧問顧問會去找他們跟他們說政府其實有很多有關於AI的補助可以去申請第一個他是因為顧問來找他他們才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10463.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10483.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
然後顧問跟他們講之後他們開始去查相關的計畫結果有的計畫比如說要嘛就是申請的期限快來不及了因為他必須要做一個計畫書才能夠符合那個補助的標準然後要嘛就是他們覺得那個計畫的內容比較不符合業界的需求我現在想請教一下我們現在針對這一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10485.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10494.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
AI公司的補助是到底是哪一個單位還是說每一個部會都有大家經濟部有嗎有相關的補助嗎是什麼樣的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10496.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10514.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
補助企業如果說要導入AI或數位的轉型那我們就可以給他做一個是企業導入而已對 直接補助就既有的公司如果他針對某一個環節他要導入的話你可以補助對 比如說他要生產的或者說要客戶服務的然後導入AI那我們就可以來補助那國發會有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10516.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10526.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
跟委員報告我們其實前瞻計畫裡面會有我說國發會變在國發會裡面預算有沒有特定計畫的補助有嗎有有有是哪一種就是一個計畫型的補助計畫型的補助對對對針對哪一類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10531.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10546.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
應該是公務對 公務預算我不是說公務預算特別預算我講的是比如說像經濟部他說他針對企業裡面如果有特定業務導入AI他有補助那你們是補助哪一種類型 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10547.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10572.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們是補助跨部會的跨部對 跨部會還有你又是第一次答非所問沒關係那國科會國科會是補助研究案國科會主要針對科研的補助科研的部分但是對於廠商或新商那我請教一下如果是那一種就是自己公司投入很多研發經費然後要去發展AI的那種先驗計畫的就是他要做很多嘗試這一種的現在聽起來是沒有補助嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10573.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10593.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
有 經濟部有補助是經濟部嗎 你剛剛就沒有講嘛你剛剛講的是說特定企業要導入AI對所以你看我現在把三個機關叫上來大家都講得支支吾吾的你們都講得支支吾吾那請問一般民間怎麼知道有這方面的補助所以可不可以請你們回去好好的這個想想看你的這個計畫怎麼推廣好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10595.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10623.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
對不對 因為我剛剛舉的例子其實他是國內蠻大的我就不講哪一家啦其實是蠻有名的公司他們都不曉得欸所以等於是你們自己本身沒有去接觸人家嘛還是透過那種顧問我也不知道顧問是什麼顧問啦民間的顧問去跟他們講他們才知道這個你鎖定幾家對台灣發展AI有幫助的企業主動跟他們說我們這邊政府可以協助你們什麼應該不難吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10624.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10643.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那個委員我再次強調啦藉這個機會宣導一下就是經濟部我們針對這個企業去做AI的技術的研發還有技術的導入我們都會提供補助那我們都知道有補助但是就不知道那個細節也不知道相關辦法所以很多企業都不曉得嘛我現在是請你們去宣導這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10646.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10667.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
至少比較大間的或者是比較前瞻或什麼你們也可以辦座談會或幹嘛的嘛多多的推廣嘛否則你政府的美意就這樣子很多人都用不到啊對台灣產業也是一種損失啊好再來還有一個我想請教一下這個看哪一位可以回答因為現在很多AI他們現在最怕就是處罰嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10669.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10693.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
他要做那個模擬的訓練然後前一段時間不是才發生有新創公司因為他用了法學資料庫的資料所以就被告了那可是重刑耶被判4年啊7年這會造成寒蟬效應大家會不知所措啦請問一下政府單位對於就是模型訓練資料的使用的相關的學習規範什麼時候會出來啊這是屬於國科會的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10696.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10723.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
速發部的 速發部請問什麼時候會出來我們現在AI是在跟全世界賽跑我們主權語料庫現在已經在跟各部會協作當中那12月就會有第一版的發表你現在講的是你的主權語料庫嗎我講的是說它如果是用其他的資料庫它只是做訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10725.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10739.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
訓練的部分其實要仰賴智慧財產權法的修法那你們現在有在跟相關機關推動這一塊嗎這個目前所以就擺爛啊這個就是很多業界擔心啊因為他們要去做訓練就很怕觸法嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10741.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10759.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
我刚刚讲的案例是今年五月的事情委员这一部分因为是智慧财产局那边主管的法规不是啦今天主管AI当然是有一个主要的权责机关他发现这个是一个重要问题他就要去找智慧财产局跟他讲说这会影响到AI的发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10760.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10787.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
就共同推動而不是說問你們說那是他們他們就是他們大家推來推去那我們還說什麼AI那個就騙人的嗎這個趕快去處理委員這部分我們有跟制裁局那邊跟各專家也有在做推動什麼時候會有一個規範出來牛年馬月嗎大約是冬季嗎什麼時候我們在這個推動的這個方向應該在明年初會有一個明年初方向會出來好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10791.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10800.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
謝謝葉雲芝委員主席請回我們接下來請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在我們接下來請黃婕委員黃婕委員不在我們接下來請謝榮介委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10820.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10826.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
主席我請國發會請國發會葉主委委員好你好辛苦了 經濟沒中沒低主委我請教你你認為我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10847.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10858.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
AI 內閣這一年半以來到底是AI還是AI的AI啊AI喔不是不是 AI AI AI是AI喔台灣的AI經濟AI的內閣競爭力我請教你喔就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10874.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10903.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
坦白說 我們九十輪輸了我們的靈魂政策跟我們的電的成本會影響到我們AI的競爭力會嘛這是一個很嚴肅的課題我講一個訴苦給你聽就是說 越南嘛 越南相信在這方面可能比我們差一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10905.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10913.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我們剛好意很多華南的生產 他的競爭力他賺是從大陸買的 你知道嗎?華南伯伯你知不知道他從大陸買的 賺了多少錢?對 這要問經濟部寒碎啦 經濟部我們不知道 實在可憐 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10931.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10954.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
寒水齁 我人家買的電一套給我們台北 兩顆粒啊 兩顆粒我請教他們的時候 那麼發電太陽能 熱能 台灣人沒人反對的我的故鄉也沒人反對啊 但是沒到高雄搞起來的時候 我請問經濟的保障到 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10956.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10976.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
平時他跟我說 你要發展太陽能 你要給他們聽世界太陽能的介紹 身份多少你知不知道?主委你知不知道?世界太陽能的身份 多少?每個國家的介紹都不敢不敢嗎?像整個日本 兩顆七 一顆美國 一顆是一顆八 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10984.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11005.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
美國非核家園一套太陽能是2.1元印度一套是9元澳大利亞一套是1.4元巴西一套是1.4元沙烏地阿拉伯可能更嚴重一套是4.5元中國大陸一套是7.5元全世界平均一套電太陽能是1.4元 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11013.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11018.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我們台灣 你知不知道幾人?四個多吧四個白痴 五個苦力我問你要怎麼AI?發電 發電 發電得完的人員所以林文靜是 我相信老總統他準備要調整了 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11038.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11049.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
AI 大家說 會去影響傳統商業來經濟部說什麼這次有關稅 說你企業要轉型啊我請教你AI 的發展包括機器人 包括大數據的計算起來包括超級電腦 這是不是要用大電是所以我們的競爭力減少不久啊尤其傳統商業面臨關稅的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11068.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11093.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
你站在這個位置很重要你可以提供經濟部很多建議啊但是經濟部協議經濟部協議他們有算過說在二孔三孔年進展期是沒欠電啦他在說白痴你給我騙你五公堆去賠沒沒有啦沒有啦沒有啦他在說我騙你也在跟你騙啊那有受理啦有受理啦委員啊沒有來啦沒欠電那一堆多少啦你是說對不對這是身份嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11099.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11110.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
所以所有的傳統三業 很多人說我小時候 我旁財 我跑外賣我中來是不是會叫AI出台 會不會你看是在一種行業 你如果說有做生計的時候我告訴你 都不會台灣的基金 薪水這麼多 三萬五百一大堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11127.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11156.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
坦白說AI就是全部台灣三業都完全升級的開始要專託包括國發會議員 經濟部所有政府各部門包括管理政府都要動起來讓我們的三業 傳統三業包括總業員 包括所有的人都接受AI接受AI的新科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11157.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11167.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
不用走AI 進入AI的世界你來利用AI做工具我跟你說 台灣就能擺脫假心碎的世界你有認同嗎 有啊 有有具體的做法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11174.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11188.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
古特的作法就是像我們經濟部現在有在發展說百工百業那種智慧化還有那個國科會也有在推廣所謂的全民智慧你問經濟部是保釋的啦 我沒騙你啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11190.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11211.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
國務卿 我要拜託你 你的演技是真的能夠讓我們國航 國機 百工百業甚至到最基層的變本社的情景園隆重也要善用AI的機器 善用AI的工具我告訴你 台灣比較有辦法褪變我們現在面臨的國際的挑戰是有夠嚴峻的所以這一點 本市長一定會跟你們談到的就是你沒辦法提出一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11219.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11227.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
就像剛才我講的國科會可以提出一個甘育的報告後續你們要怎麼做 會給予本社會是國科會委員我是國發會國發會啦國發會啦報告喔國發會啦因為你們是公認出來下面國保會就可以依存這個公認 我要說我幫你下去啦我來替你找啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11250.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11259.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
現在其實每一個報復都在做你一個月的時間給我嘛然後我來替你推動這個社群我收集我之前聽到的這個庶民他們說我想要進入AI的世界我沒辦法你只要說三項真真正正這個庶民要專門進入AI |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11276.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11302.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
我稍等要過來交給委員會 我要講 包括交給部今天交給部 我們有代表在這裡那可是真真正正 能讓台灣脫胎換骨鳳姐 我跟你講 只有我們這個電子的高端機我幫你保證 完全沒有競爭力謝謝你跟委員報告 我們那個國防會其實有人才躍升計畫那個方案 有 裡面都有寫說怎麼樣去做啦我們會齁 會給那個 給我嘛 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11306.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11310.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
謝鴻介委員 主委請回我們接下來請蔡易瑜委員謝謝主席我們是不是有請經濟部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11336.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11340.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
請邱組長代理謝謝邱組長邱組長國科會副組委請國科會副組委蘇副組委謝謝好組長組長我根據是前幾天的報導經濟日報經濟部規劃要在2025年到2028年要投入29億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11364.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11370.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那要推動所謂矽光子的國家隊那結合學研單位跟國內的一些廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11371.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11399.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那會聚焦在光晶片跟這個共封裝的光學元件CPU那我們知道矽光紙大概現在產業界非常的夯因為從AI的所需要的一個晶片那現在都朝向就是複合式堆疊的包括我們現在要說的CoreOS啦CorePass啦甚至叫做益智整合這樣的一些技術的一些研發但是看起來台灣在這方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11400.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11419.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
人才的培育是不足的这一点是对的吧是不是经济部先说明一下细光子部分就是比较熟悉我是不是请郭市长这边来回应你熟悉的直接上来谢谢委员的指教那有关细光子的部分我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11420.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11447.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
矽光是一個把電轉為光的過程然後用光來傳輸會比較快對就是光傳導嘛是那光老實講在以往在台灣或說在世界是還沒有用這樣的方式來傳輸當然這是人才要培育是必須的那也是因為所以它就是一個嶄新的技術嘛就是過去是用電嘛過去所謂的半導體就是用電然後去做整個的運算 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11447.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11462.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那現在就加入了光那如何要把這個光傳導然後再整合在晶片的兩塊晶片把它堆疊的時候用光傳導去加速它的運算所以就我的理解啦這裡面除了說 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11463.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11484.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
涉及到了傳統的一個物理之外它的材料學也很重要甚至它對光學的理解電學的理解都很重要所以它等於是一個嶄新的一個技術那這個技術裡面當然就需要這樣類似的一個人才了對 那你們現在人才端你們的計畫是怎樣如果以這樣的一個矽光子的國家 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11484.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11513.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那跟委員報告在目前我們剛剛委員提到29億這樣的一個4年的計畫那目前是由這個國客會這邊會來處理這有關他有的人才的專才的部分這邊提到是200名那另外在我們產業端的部分我們有工研院等等的單位在工業電光所這邊有投入這一塊那這個是比較接跟產業接觸那這個部分我們也同時跟不管是跟業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11513.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11541.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
的一個一起投入還有是跟也看學校這邊有什麼需求我們都有配合所以你們也是鼓勵這一些大學端研究端那來加入這樣一個團隊未來來成立就是說你們矽光子國家隊你們現在預計至少要有200個專才嘛對不對要有200個專才那我直接跟你講一個好消息啦我們嘉義啦中正大學啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11541.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11563.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
事實上也是看準了這樣的一個因為未來台積電所謂COWAS的一個封裝廠他大概是以嘉義來做他未來的佈局所以大概中央大學目前非常的積極他甚至去找了你們所成立的矽光子聯盟去跟聯盟的一些策略長都有已經有初步的交換意見那甚至也去拜訪了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11565.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11592.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
北科大台科大的教授大概就是說未來我們中正大學可能會在矽光子的研發上我們可能會先從微學程未來會到學位學程等於是說他就要朝向這裡來推進那是不是如果大學端中正大學已經有這樣的看準了現在未來國家需要矽光子國家隊的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11594.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11612.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
那他願意來走出這一步那我想是不是站在國科會或跟經濟部應該是要予以他們更大的協助這個非常重要因為在嘉義這邊如果是與發展矽光子這樣的一個產業就是等於封裝的半導體部分的投入那人才一定是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11613.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11633.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那所以當這個部分我們因為矽光子當然不只有這個製程比如說台積電這一方還有一個設備剛剛委員提到的材料材料的部分那這個是一個整合性的所以我們先前有跟那個在結合這個跟中正大學的理工學院理院長還有一個幹副院長對副院長對 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11636.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11659.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
所以你們已經有接洽了嘛第一個就是說有關這個我們學程怎麼樣來安排那怎麼樣去跟教育部來爭取那個內容上什麼課那我們要請什麼樣的師製跟什麼業者一起來就是應該齁就是說我們未來這個大學端齁都應該要變成一個啦產業很重要能工廠寬學產業很重要所以應該就是產業出題 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11662.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11688.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
產業出考題學術端訓練學生來答題應該就是常常這樣所以中文大學也是朝這樣的一個方向正在努力中就是說他可能會跟更多的產業包括目前銳益半導體他也很樂意在這一塊可以提供更多甚至我們也未來希望我們可以在中研院這邊也可以給我們更多的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11689.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11706.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
那我覺得嘉義大學要成立所謂矽光子的這樣的一個學程我們站在我們現在推動這個產業的需求我們應該要全力來協助好不好是那第二個啦是說我看到這個這個產業的困境除了人才端 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11707.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11728.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
事實上也有說包括代工平台封測設備的能量不足那以及有缺少這個產品的驗測中心那所以這樣的一連串的這樣的一個問題目前你們這邊是怎麼計劃怎麼樣解決你們說到的目前困境您的方向是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11729.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11756.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
現在目前電晶片 矽光紙大概要有幾個部分第一個是電晶片的部分 這個是沒有問題我們聯發科已經投入然後再來是光晶片那確實是由公務院這邊在協助業者一起來建立這樣的能力因為是先前沒有做這個部分那雷射的部分也有我們國內有些化合物半導體這部分是沒有問題是把整個封裝起來因為那要變成整個通道蠻多的通道 光線通道出去封裝要能夠 良率要能夠高的話這個部分也是由公務院跟業者一起在 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11757.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11775.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
在準備中那也是在因為目前這樣的一個技術台積電是規劃2029年要量產所以我們2028年一定要完全完成這樣的相關的一個研發開發工作所以台積電希望2029量產嘛對不對好所以我們可能在你說好2028你要準備好這一些平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11775.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11791.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
好那這就是我現在一個疑問啦就是說好那我回到剛剛中央大學說他們一旦想要進入舊矽光子的一個學程那如果他們需要這樣的後端的一些平台啦驗檢的一個設備啦那他們應該要怎麼跟我們這邊國科會這邊來對接 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11799.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11819.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
其實在半導體在國科會跟經濟部都有相關的那個製程平台我講可能是比如說我們這邊有一些半導體8吋跟12吋晶圓廠然後有一些封測有一些檢驗等等這個我們在尤其在供應院這邊裡面都有設置那我們也歡迎這個我們也正在跟中正大學正在談說怎麼樣去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11820.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11840.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
除了在課堂上的講說之外那怎麼樣來做實務的這些實作那這個都是在我們的規劃以內對 因為他們有課程嘛他們還是需要有一些實作的一些場域啊所以可能未來 我覺得說中央大學現在這個他要把這樣的一個學位學程要把它推動出去的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11840.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11858.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
我感覺可能也不是只有師資跟課程而已啦一顆零後邊後端他也需要更多設備的投入所以可能未來都沒有人會這麼多但我覺得既然有學校要跳出來要來承擔這個精靈還是一樣啦我們公部門盡量去協助大學讓他把 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11859.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11872.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
所謂的矽光子國家隊然後在學位的學的這部分趕快把它落實然後讓他不管是在施肢啦設備啦所以他未來所需要的一些經費我們都應該予以協助好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11877.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11898.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
謝謝蔡易瑜委員然後署長、市長、副主委請回我們中午不休息然後延長開會時間至議程處理完畢再休息謝謝我們接下來請張家俊委員抱歉抱歉抱歉吳立華委員吳立華委員吳立華委員不在抱歉請張家俊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11904.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11921.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
主席我想請國發會葉主委請國發會葉主委主委午安我想藉這個機會請教於您關於AI十大建設國發會推動這個計畫這個總投資的規模是多少呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11929.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11945.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
好 主委不知道明年的預算是300多億是 他的總投資規模高達1.78兆元喔目標是打造AI護國群山應該你要比我了解吧怎麼感覺好像我在講這件事你不是那麼理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11946.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11966.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
委員你那個1.78兆元是屬於152項那個建設就配套那一個部分但我們還有另外一個是是在AI新十大建設另外一塊另外一塊你說那一塊是多少錢所以要在1.78兆之內再加上那個嗎還是這是額外的另外你們明年編多少300多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11966.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11979.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
300多億那不是一個小數字欸是真的是一個蠻大的數字喔那你們的目標是據我所知是讓台灣成為全球AI前五強那這個是正確嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11982.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12005.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
是的那是我們的目標是你們的目標吧那我想針對這個AI呢其實真的是繼半導體之後帶動國家成長的一個新引擎也是面對少子化缺工產業升級時非常重要的契機不過主委我想了解目前整體的推動重點是不是還集中在台北呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12005.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12032.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
不會 因為我們會均衡的去發展譬如說北部的話就是桃豬苗大系股然後南部的話就是會有南方新系股那中間的話 那是哪裡南方新系股是哪裡包括嘉義 台南 高雄 還有屏東那為什麼就跳過了雲林呢你台北有 南部有 然後我們雲林就沒有我不能理解 這是均衡嗎沒有 有 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12033.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12062.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
中部有啦中部有就是所以你幾乎整排西部都有就只有跳過雲林的意思囉是不是我想提醒主委如果AI的成果都只是在都會區開花的話勢必會擴大數位落差而且產業落差讓我們中部的產業難以受惠那AI的成功不能只是技術的成功更應該是與陸軍戰全民共享的成功 主委你同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12063.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12088.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
跟委員報告其實在雲林這邊其實我們有規劃全民智慧生活圈還有中部精密智慧智慧新核心其實都有內容是什麼可以提供給本席辦公室嗎中部精密智慧新核心的話包括農漁業導入智慧科技還有發展那個智慧養殖並拓展到食品的加工那這個編了多少錢呢這個部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12090.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12118.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我那個是不是會後提供給委員會後給我書面資料好不好那我舉雲林為例交通跟能源都兼備中科湖北園區如果未來從湖北一直串聯到土庫串聯到寶中 串聯到東勢整體可達1600公頃的這個腹地而且它是單一地主全部都是台塘土地足以容納半導體跟AI產業上下游 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12119.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12139.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
建廠放眼50年我猜喔都不用再擔心土地的問題請問主委國發會能不能率先在雲林規劃一個AI應用的示範據點產業的示範據點讓所有全國都能夠看到AI帶來的實質成果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12139.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12149.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
報告委員其實我們在台中已經有設類似的那至於是不是在雲林是不是我們再評估一下認真評估一下好不好認真評估一下我們有水有電還有土地耶你要看其他的縣市幾乎都已經沒有這個條件了剛剛蔡易餘委員問的她問了很多有關於他們台積電的事情他們的台積電還是跟我們借水的耶你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12168.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12180.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
所以為什麼我們有水有地有電我們不能夠發展產業我們的水還要借給別人用你覺得這合理嗎站在國家發展的角度之上你覺得這樣合理嗎我 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12182.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12205.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
不合理 你就說不合理啊區域均衡的問題因為水的問題其實比如說像新竹的話有一些水也是從苗栗送啦所以其實是每一個地方政府都互相在你說哪裡的水是從苗栗送應該是苗栗的水往新竹送吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12206.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12230.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
我現在是在跟你說雲林的水往嘉義送我知道所以我跟委員分享是說其實區域治理其實要地方政府一起來做我現在就在告訴你說我們既然有這個條件我們既然有這個條件國發會就要重視這才是你的工作不是說這裡已經發展就這裡繼續發展就好了那這樣子我們的城鄉差距就會越來越大 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12231.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12237.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
你不同意嗎我同意但是就每一個區域你同意就好了他要有他的特色啦就每一個區域要有一個特色啦不然的話整個台灣全部都半導體其實也不好那你針對雲林的規劃是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12247.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12269.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
雲林的規劃其實是放在我們那個中部的精密精密那個你對雲林的規劃是什麼不要告訴我你只是想要規劃雲林繼續種田是嗎沒有沒有沒有就跟委員分享就是說我們這邊也有規劃全民智慧生活圈你剛剛講的漁業農業對那是一支現在是第二個然後第二個是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12270.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12285.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
第二個就是我剛剛跟委員分享就是全民智慧生活圈裡面有包括智慧健康智慧健康是什麼智慧健康這個就是委員你比較重視的就是所謂的長照醫院所以我們就只能有醫院有農業有漁業我們沒有辦法發展產業還有那個運輸中心你是這個意思嗎我覺得你給我這個傳遞的訊息讓我有點擔憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12299.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12313.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
而且是不只是有點擔憂是非常擔憂就會覺得說你這樣子的話等於是你內心已經有抵定說反正你就是要重點發展哪幾個地方然後剩下的就其他地方沒辦法走你就直接走沒有啦就是我們會依照每個地方的特色主委我誠摯的邀請你到雲林來走一走 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12321.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12332.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
然後雲林來走一走你才知道你想像的東西你想像的雲林也許跟你看到的不一樣好不好那我接下來想要問那個樹發部的侯次長侯次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12336.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12357.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我們今天提到AI科技的未來藍圖其實我是一則以喜一則以憂看好一面說AI發展會帶動整個產業的新高峰促進經濟成長但是相對應也讓一個犯罪行為更為容易次長你知道我說指的是什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12359.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12366.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
是我不太確定委員詐騙對我想我前兩天也看到林部長接受媒體專訪喔就是大談這個打詐的心得包括要求Meta Google Line揭露這個廣告出資者24小時內下架詐騙廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12379.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12396.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
那我想要知道說美國官員來台參訪的時候速發部有沒有提出說跟Facebook詐騙相關的議題他們有給我們什麼正面的回應嗎有 他們有提出就是未來一起合作那除了這個有什麼具體的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12397.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12422.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
具體的部分應該還在雙方協商當中我在這裡提醒次長速發部應該加大對Meta或者是美國官方要加大你們關切的力度原因很簡單依照速發部自己的統計資料我不曉得次長有沒有掌握目前網路平台中最主要的詐騙廣告詐騙管道是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12426.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12450.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
應該是社群平台吧就是Meta就是MetaMeta佔了86.9%是第一名所以呢如果假設假設速發布覺得詐騙打詐是你們重要的一環的話那你們應該跟Meta溝通啊你知道這個路透社表示喔2024年24年 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12454.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12458.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
平均每日向用戶展現150億則高風險的詐騙廣告然後有10.1%的年度營收是來自於違反平台標準的廣告其中詐騙廣告一年為他們創造70億美元2168億的年營收 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12477.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12491.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
那我不曉得次長有沒有掌握這個數字啊可以說是是吧那你們應該要知道說Meta假設你們可以讓Meta跟你們合作該下架的都要下架你現在知道Meta他下架的標準是什麼嗎他 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12494.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12511.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
高達95%他覺得說這應該是詐騙廣告他才會下假設93%他不下他只是跟業主說你多付一點廣告費我繼續幫你登這個部分跟委員報告我們通報他的他都會下架所以只要你通報他都會下架那你們通報的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12513.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12541.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
是怎麼樣 你們是人工通報嗎還是AI通報我們是會有 我們已經有一個就是完整的機制那會接到舉報之後會給各個主管機關那我再給你看 我再給你看這個黃仁勳的你看這兩個這兩個都用黃仁勳結果呢 一個說已經被移除了一個說疑似詐騙你可以告訴我這兩個有什麼不一樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12544.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12563.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
你可以告訴我有什麼不一樣嗎沒辦法嘛所以我覺得說我覺得說你們真的要積極一點積極一點否則我們有多少民眾有多少辛苦賺了一輩子錢的搞不好他真的要退休全部錢都被騙光光 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12564.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12569.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這怎麼辦呢這真的是要靠你們耶否則你們現在感覺好像事不關己你要速發部打架這麼久結果那個太子集團的詐騙案還是美國要通知我們我們才知道所以呢我在這裡建議啊打架不只是要在抓這個個案這些末端的事情而且往上啊往源頭啊否則速發部的存在是做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12591.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12609.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
跟委員報告 這個打架其實是很多部會大家一起合作好 我知道 但是現在都是如果說電話的打架當然都不歸你們管啊那這些網路的打架難道不歸你們管嗎是不是然後另外經濟部說主責AI的百工百業那速發部也主責AI的應用那到底這現在是誰做主 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12618.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12644.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我们会有跟经济部一起协作那抒发部这部分是针对这个技术的提供还有支付业者的部分去做资源投入所以是谁做主在不同的场域里面应该是会有不同的就不会来做所以就你跟经济部是谁做主我们在那个如果是AI新时代建设的话AI数位产业登峰这一支计划是我们主责好 加油谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12648.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12669.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
謝謝張家俊委員主委請回 謝謝接下來請賴世寶委員賴世寶委員不在接下來請高金素梅委員高金素梅委員高金素梅委員不在接下來請林倩琦委員林倩琦委員林倩琦委員不在接下來請陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
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你好 我們請國防會主委好 我們請國防會主委 謝謝 |
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委員好主委好對這個我先想用這個惠達執行長黃仁勳他不斷強調的一個概念就是主權AI他不斷的警告說如果一個國家沒有他自己的主權AI他沒有辦法掌握自己的數據沒有辦法掌握自己的文化解釋權那他就會陷入智慧的進口依賴那你說他智慧的進口依賴就是我們必須在各個公部門 |
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現在他不可以把我們想要在公部門的資訊放到ChurchGPT嘛理論上是不行的嘛儘管他是美國的但是因為他跟我國畢竟還是有主權上面的這個不同那在資訊管理上面或者是在資安管理上面我們不方便把它丟到ChurchGPT或者不方便把它丟到相關的這樣子的智慧模型語言大型語言的模型裡面我這樣講是對還錯是對嘛應該是這樣子所以這對台灣人來說是一個 |
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我認為說是一個警訊首先我們沒有辦法效率化的使用這樣子的數位工具如果沒有辦法效率化的使用數位工具的話我們跟民間的差距就會越來越大因為現在在民間的不管是跟資訊相關的公司也好或者是一般的你可能是做貿易相關的公司也好它 |
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越來越依賴這樣子的這種大型的語言模型那生產的效率會隨著這樣子的時間的推進那gap會越來越大我想這應該是很明顯的所以這對台灣來說是很大的警訊我們生產了全球90%的這個重要的硬體晶片我們擁有最強的細鈍但是在軟體層面我們缺乏自己的質鈍所以我看到經濟部可能經濟部的司長也麻煩也可以一起來去回應 |
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我們看到經濟部他在回覆沈博洋委員的書面質詢他裡面有明確的提到要結合法人運用台灣產業特有的資料打造台灣自主的AI核心技術那國科會有推動你們的可信任的台灣的大型語言模型但是目前的架構我認為有幾個結構性的問題 |
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第一個部分這個大學的語言模型的預算大概是多少錢可不可以簡單的回應一下TED台德台德這一個 |
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我們確認一下我講一下那個數據你們跟我們核實是不是這樣大概預算是1億多新台幣大概是這個規模應該沒有錯嗎如果我們的查證沒有錯的話應該是過去的投入過去的投入大概是年度的預算大概是1億多這個新台幣那法國的我們可以相應的這個機構它成立大概兩年多那今年9月的預估值是140億美元也就是4300多億台幣 |
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那法國人口數大概數倍於我們但是也僅是數倍不會差4300倍所以雙方的落差是超過千倍那這樣子的千倍的落差我們受限於我們的這是一個學研機構我們受限於他的薪資結構我們根本搶不贏其他重要的這些大型的這種企業大型的公司不要說台積電Google或者是頂級的海外的這些架構式來回流嘛 |
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所以我覺得幾個方案第一個就是產業化的路徑可以透過主權基金的投資讓我們的這種可信任的人工智慧對話引擎能夠成為一個民營的新創它有辦法在這個市場上面存活下去但同時也是我國的自主的主權的AI想請教一下市長或者是主委你認為我們有沒有辦法參考這些相關的模式來去 |
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不要引用輔助的思維我們可以透過頭髮這個國發基金來去點火用股權投資的方式把它作為這種衍生新創的方式來去擴大讓它成為一個具備市場競爭力的這樣能夠開出年薪非常多的這樣子來去延攬頂級人才的國家隊 |
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報告委員 就主權基金這個部分因為還在收集資料演講當中的話這個主權基金這個部分我比較沒辦法回答但是國發基金這邊的話其實我們有跟速發部跟國客會這邊都有合作那我們會有一個叫做百億的主題式的投資那這個部分的話倒是可以去幫助一些新創 |
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所以我們現在的這一個我們台德這一個本身它是採用哪一種模式台德應該不是國發基金的還是用傳統我們用補助大概每年有年度預算這樣但是台德可能就是我們最主要的國家主權的AI可以這麼講嗎那這樣子的資金的投入夠嗎這才是我比較擔心的問題 |
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台德只是其中的一部分我們現在國網中心有成立一個台灣AI Rep成立一個聯盟那對於有意願投入不管是大圓模型或小圓模型或者是相關個別應用的公司我們都可以來做協助或開發相關的平台那剛剛講的AI的這個百億的基金它也可以持續地挹注這些新的新創公司那甚至是結合經濟部跟國科會既有的一些新創的機制都可以來協助這些AI新創公司的一個發展以上 |
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非常感謝那我還是再強調一下我們剛才提到的規模上面的差別這個估值4300多億台幣跟這樣子的年度預算他可能是沒有辦法做匹配的那當然如果說有白億的這個資金進入那讓各種不同的新創企業能夠從中得到資源來去有朝一日可以去擴大到這種程度的話我們也是樂見其成的但是還是要強調規模可能要稍微提高 |
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那時間可能要稍微加快一下不然我們公務部門會跟私營的企業它之間的數位的鴻溝會越來越大那對很多公務員來講的話也會很可惜好 謝謝 |
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好 謝謝那麼我們登記發言的委員除了不在場之外其餘都已經發言完畢詢答結束委員有林黛嬅委員 呂玉玲委員黃婕委員所提書面資料列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆的部分請相關單位於一週之內以書面答覆並複製本會那本日所列的議程處理完畢謝謝我們所有的議事主任也謝謝媒體朋友謝謝我們行政部門 |
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謝謝大家現在散會 謝謝 |