| IVOD_ID |
17051 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17051 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-22-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-20T08:37:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-20T12:49:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:11:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d56bfc183e580b28dda03d3c3f8b5984385db5c09cad80ab79b57a3b2bc1eeae55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部政務次長劉國偉、數位發展部及國家通訊傳播委員會列席就「如何防範不當之短影音及社群平台兒少內容，加強數位及媒體素養」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:37:52 - 12:49:00 |
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報告委員會出席委員十一人已足法定人數現在開會首先進行報告事項請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第十一屆第四會期教育及文化委員會第六次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一一四年十一月十二日上午九時至下午一時二十四分一一四年一十一月十三日上午九時一分至十二時二十七分地點本縣清賢樓一零一會議室 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1384.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1406.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
出席委員 外美林等14人請教委員 葛如君委員內席委員 吳秉瑞委員等22人內席人員11月12日運動部政府次長鄭世忠率同有關人員11月13日中央研究院院長廖俊志率同有關人員主席 劉昭吉委員 蘇斌11月12日報告事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1408.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1432.18 |
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一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定 議事錄確定二 運動部政務次長鄭士忠列席就對體育團體之治理與全民運動之推展進行專題報告並被質詢 本日議程有委員 萬美玲等22人提出質詢均經運動部政務次長鄭士忠及相關人員及其答覆說明另有委員高金素美 林楚英 鍾嘉斌提出書面質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1433.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1460.374 |
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決定一 報告及詢問完畢二 委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報三 對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆通過臨時提案一項11月13日 報告四項中央研究院院長廖俊志列席報告A5概況並被質詢本日議程有委員林佩祥等16人提出質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1462.13 |
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1483.648 |
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均經中央研究院院長廖俊志及相關人員及其答覆說明另有委員謝榮介提出書面質詢決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報三 對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1486.212 |
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1506.783 |
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在場委員未達議決人數三人所以我們議事錄暫不確定今天的議程是邀請教育部政務次長劉國偉數位發展部及國家通訊傳播委員會列席就如何防範不當之短影音及社群平台而受內容加強數位及媒體素養進行專題報告並備質詢那我們現在介紹在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1512.046 |
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1540.595 |
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委員都還沒到那我們先介紹與會官員那因為多位的官員都已經有來過了我們沒有一一介紹首先介紹是我們教育部的政務次長劉國偉劉次長數位發展部主任秘書胡貝蒂主任秘書國家通訊傳播委員會主任秘書黃文哲網際網路傳播辦公室檢認視察李嘉玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1544.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1567.594 |
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現在請教育部劉次長進行報告 報告時間5分鐘我們召會主席 各位委員 女士先生 大家好本人請代表教育部應邀來就如何防止 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1569.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1589.752 |
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防備防止不當短語音社群平台而少內容加強數位媒體媒體素養等方面跟個委員報告很榮幸也並且很重慶希望能聽到各位委員的著見給希望各個委員給關心特別關心我們孩子們 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1590.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1615.713 |
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对媒体平台与内容上对校园学生的影响并给我们教育部多一点支持与指正以下就分别就短影音或社群平台对未成年学生所造成的影响以及我们教育部分别针对载具管理及网路内容防范 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1616.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1641.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
以及校園師生數位素養媒體素養等推動措施執行成效以及後續精進措施進行分別的報告我們也有詳實的書面報告在各位委員上面首先第一點要針對短影音及社會平台對未成年學生的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1642.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1663.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
有很多國際性的研究與監管報告都共同指出短影音平台如抖音跟小紅書它有若干的錯誤的訊息有害身心發展的內容以及其他的演算法對我們未成年的青少年的身心發展有嚴重的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1665.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1693.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
有建議如此包括印度、英國、愛爾蘭等在內的國家對抖音採取較嚴厲的措施以避免對未成年青少年的影響相關的文獻資料也在我們的專題報告的第一頁跟第二頁都有詳細的載明它的來源第二點就針對教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1695.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1706.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
對教學載具管理跟網路內容的防範措施這部依據今年九月通過的資安管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1707.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1726.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
治安安全管理法的規定教育部及所屬機關團體公務員都不得使用大陸製的軟硬體裝置當然就包括了所謂的抖音跟小紅書等有危害我們國家治安的軟體這邊是講APP應用軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1731.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1751.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
同時教育部在推動斑斑有網路深深有平板的計畫中所裝置的所用的行動軸體也都不得也不會也不得裝置這些與教學無關的APP以及社群軟體也就是應用軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1752.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1761.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
另外 針對兒少法權宜所規定的保障為了防止兒童與新少年接觸有害身心發展的網際網路內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1764.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1787.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我们的相关的电信业者应配合我们在各部会所组成的网络内容防护机制iWIN上建立的防止儿少接触有害身心内容的机制针对防护机制不足的网站教育部在我们的TANET也就是我们的台湾学术网络会主导 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1788.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1802.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們的相關的載具這些網址目前已經阻擋了抖音跟小紅書相關短影音的網上網址包含抖音76筆 小紅書25筆等 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1808.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1831.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
最后教育部也提供了相关的数位工具包与三大业者合作我们提供了我们的家长在他们可以设定他们小孩子的手机过滤内容以及使用时间的管理机制来协助他们的子女避免接触到不当的网站的内容 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1832.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1861.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第三点就培养我们校园的私生数位素养方面我们全国196,000个中小学老师均已通过A1、A2的数位学习工作坊目前已经有10%的老师已经通过了A3的真能课程这个真能课程包含数位教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1867.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1893.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
以及内容试读等演习教育部也建立了中小学数位素养教育网站里面有短音试读站抖音与小红书的专区提供私生有关网络沉迷试读以及辨识假讯息等的目前平均每天有13000人次在使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1894.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1920.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們教育部也定期的舉辦我們的資訊素養自我評量活動到今年為止已經有30萬人的私生參與那各地方所攀演的親子活場所我們也舉辦了許多短影音的宣傳活動那每年大概有一萬兩千人次的參加在我們的十二年國教課堂裡面已經將 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1922.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1929.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
科技與媒體素養列為核心素養透過課程的引導 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1930.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1952.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
引导学生分辨是非以分辨辨识养成正式的使用网络的能力那我们也透过了我们国民教育中央辅导团协助各地方的科技领域分团办理资讯伦理素养的教师研习团加强老师在资讯的安全的资能 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1954.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1979.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我們會持續在這裡辦理第四點就培養我們校園的師生媒體素養教育部在112年發布了數位時代媒體素養教育排批書就是我手上這個已經分別提出三個三大方向分別包括是生化學校教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1979.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2000.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
拓展終身教育充實資源體制並推動忠誠計畫其中有7項策略、30個行動方案其中也持續收集短影音造假、侵權、假訊息的偏撥案例製作相關教材、引導老師在課程上使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2002.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2022.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們高中以下的教科書都依課綱編列裡面也包含了媒體素養等內容老師可以應用教科書及補充教材教學學生好好利用科技能力及辨識分析的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2023.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2038.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
另外我们也协助老师规划课程推动教学引导从禁用分析创造反思行动等五面向适用在不同的年级的课程上 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2039.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2054.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那我们教育部也每年办理中小学媒体素养研习营包含了如何辨识假讯息短音试行等议题以今年为例已经有一千多位老师已经受到这个参与我们会持续再继续办理 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2055.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2082.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
最后教育部委每年补助地方政府办理精进教学计划以将媒体素养列为课程113委立已经办了86场有将近4000位的老师参加今年已经规划了10场线上以提升教师教学能力另外在台湾北中南分别补助了五所高中 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2083.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2105.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
成立了媒體素養基地 協助就近的老師開發課程以設計教材分享他的教學經驗最後跟各位報告我們後續的精進作為我們會持續推動現有的計畫在防護方面將深化與iWIN的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2106.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2128.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
配合调整台湾学术网络防护机制也就是我们的TANET我们在教育宣传上我们透过中小学媒体素养基地的计划刚才我提到就是有五个高中成立了教师专业学习社群来提高老师的教学能力以及辨识能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2129.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2151.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們也會跟各地方政府跟家庭家長團體共同合作宣導我們家長使用我們教育部提供的數位工具包提升家長與學生的數位素養強化學生在校外外的上網的安全防護 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2152.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2167.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
最後教育部希望感謝我們委員對我們校園安全網路安全及學生身心發展上面的關注我們會持續積極推動我們的校園防護以及數位媒體素養的教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2168.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2191.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
为了还是一样最后就要防止不当的媒体内容以及平台希望能导入我们学生正确的使用数位资源那以上报告谢谢我们各位委员给我们教育部的支持与指导谢谢谢谢刘次长的报告接下来请数位发展部湖北地主秘时间三分钟 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2195.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2217.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主席各位委员今天受邀针对如何防范不当短影音及社群平台而上内容加强数位及媒体素养进行报告并就此向各位委员请意请各位委员不吝赐教书法部针对这个议题主要的做法有三项第一项是市井中置的APP存在高度的资安风险 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2218.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2235.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那国安局法务部调查局跟内政部警政署刑事警察局依据本部发布的这个行动APP基本的资安检测基准已经针对这个抖音小红书微博微信及百度云盘等五款的中置APP进行检测 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2237.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2255.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
发现有包括搜集敏感资讯读取存储空间或者是逾越APP使用功能权限等六大的面向显示这个五款中置的APP在资安防护上有重大的疑虑所以我们会建议教育部加强宣导学生慎选使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2256.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2275.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
强化个人资安的防护第二个重点是游戏的分级管理那本部的素产署基于这个网络连线游戏的目的事业主管机关呢那我们有依据儿童及少年福利与权益保障法授权定定的游戏软体分级的管理办法 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2276.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2291.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我们明定线上的游戏应该依照它的内容分为普及保护级-12-15限制级等5级要求这个业者要去做标识所以我们也要求大家要把这个分级的 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2292.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2319.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
資訊登錄在這個數位娛樂軟體分級查詢網可以供民眾來查詢各遊戲的分級那我們每年也會邀請這個小寶單位等等去針對這些市售的人們遊戲進行內容分級的視切性的審查那另外為了避免兒少接觸這些不適齡的遊戲內容那我們已經盤點一些限制級的遊戲軟體清單然後會跟教育部衛福部共同來 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2320.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2330.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
討論怎麼樣去加強管理同時針對好的遊戲我們也會透過資訊音樂台北電玩展等等相關的活動去辦理相關的宣導好的遊戲網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2332.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2354.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
最後一個是有關阻擋兒少性剝削的違法網站的部分那針對這些性影像的網站呢速發部已經建立跟跨部會合作的快速攔截攔阻的機制依照這個兒少性剝削的防治條例速發部運用DNS RPZ自律機制停止解析違法網站的處理參考程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2356.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2376.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
一旦经过法院判决或者卫福部等主管机关认定违法并通知限制接取出发部督管的TWNIC台湾网络资讯中心就会立即启动DSRPG的自律机制协调这些网际网络的接取服务提供者ISP停止截息该网域让民众没有办法连上这些网站 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2377.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2395.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
截至今年的10月底止已经成功拦阻了232件的违法网域这些供各位参考以上报告敬请指教谢谢谢谢苏发布的主密报告接下来请国家通讯传播委员会黄文哲主密报告时间三分钟 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2401.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2428.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士先生本會應邀列席本次委員會議僅代表本會提出報告如下本會作為通信傳播主管機關依《兒少法》46條規定為防止兒童及少年接觸有害其身心發展的網際網路內容召集各部地事業主管機關委託民間團體成立iWIN網路防護機構辦理兒少46條鎖定防護兒少網路安全七大事項包含申訴機制 過濾軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2431.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2454.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
兒童及少年上網安全宣導等IWIN受理涉及違反兒少法制六條規定之網路內容申訴依據多方利害關係人所訂定之網路有害兒少身心健康內容防護層級歷史框架通知網路平台業者透過資歷機制來移除或為必要之處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2455.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2473.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
iWIN並且已經跟Meta、Google、TikTok、Line等大型平台業者我們也有建立綠色通道以其快速能夠自律由其自律處理而造不一致網路內容如果相關內容也涉及了違反相關法律的話iWIN也會將 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2474.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2497.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
這些違法的內容轉交法令權的機關處理如違反歷史框架的內容是在國外的話我們司法不是我屬於我國司法管轄權的範圍那我們也會將他的網址交由中華電信以及教育學術單位也就是他那個他他Net列為兒少不宜不宜接取名單之參考那IWIN持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2499.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2528.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
針對兒少網路安全辦理預防性宣導包含了每一年深入各縣市的國小國中對於學生教師辦理網路安全教育宣導並且在全國北中南東辦理大型宣導活動以及透過各類型數位宣導管道針對網路重要議題傳達兒少因如何自我保護留意網路陷阱熟悉各種求助方式及管道等訊息面對網路內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2529.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2555.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
可能帶來的危害提升國人數位素養仍然是根本之道本會也積極地提升就素養賠利方面的積極辦理從辦理比如宣導活動培養網路實用的還有媒體 嗜讀增進網路平台業者之法尊義士強化民眾對法令之認知推廣互相尊重之網路文化進而強化整體社會之網路傳播素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2556.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2575.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
又為了使家長及教師熟悉各社群平台之防護與隱私保護本會114年3月4號也召開延商網路平台兒少防護設定之宣告活動會議邀集教育部衛福部文化部數位部與內政署警政署等單位iWIN以及兒少 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2576.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2595.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
最常使用之MetaGoogleTikTok Line等網路平台業者共同提供意見整理前階四大平台之安全防護設定製作懶人包進行推廣與宣導我們將在114年也就是在今年年底前製作完成並透過本會的官網粉專及iWIN管道宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2596.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2625.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
本會除了督導iWIN召集多方聯繫關係員會議外研議推動年齡驗證機制的做法之外也會透過公司協力促進平台業者完善自立規範鼓勵業者選擇最符合其服務特性且能夠有效避免兒少接觸不適齡內容的方式來建立兒少防護機制自源頭把關以上報告敬請指教 謝謝謝謝黃文哲主秘報告我們介紹一下在現場的委員柯之恩委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2627.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2638.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
外媒林委員 劉書斌召委那我們確定一下上次的會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處沒有 那議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2644.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2651.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好 那我們現在進行詢答每位初期委員質詢時間6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘登記發言登記截止時間為上午10時30分委員如果有臨時提案請於上午10時30分前提出並與本會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2664.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2675.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
謝龍介委員質詢結束後即進行處理處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場原例不予處理首先請發言登記第一位柯之恩委員質詢謝謝趙貝爾我們現在請次長 劉次長請劉次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2688.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2708.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
次长好我想这是你第一次接受备询吗是的好 很紧张吗还好努力OK 好来 我们就直接来问这个问题因为针对今天的主题教育部的报告里面特别提到目前为止不管是小红或是TikTok大概是很多的学生最喜欢的那你教育部的立场是怎么样而且你们特别提到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2709.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2731.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
其實有包括一些減肥包括一些非常多自傷的行為其實會對孩子的身心特別對青少年造成一些的影響這是你們特別指出來這是不是國家的問題這是幾乎是世界的安全的問題我想請問你教育部的立場是什麼好的 謝謝委員關心教育部的立場剛才我口頭報告有講首先 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2733.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2749.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
快點 來 次長APP的話在校園學術網路是不能裝置的好 那次長對不起你不能裝置的話現在目前的孩子有非常多的都是吃到飽他可以不用教學校的網站但是他可以直接連到外面的網站所以你今天不能裝置他的手機還是可以照樣使用你這點你怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2750.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2771.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
这个就要另外一个问题就是说如果他有一些危害儿少法的一些网址我们就会透过iWin我知道但是我是说你说TikTok小红书小孩可以用他吃到饱然后外连着其他的一个Wi-Fi他还是有办法接收这些讯息所以你禁得了吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2773.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2794.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
第一个进不了但是我们会透过我们的素养教育刚才提过素养教育你刚刚有提到非常多不同的一个方法所以你现在是说在这个教育的现场就像我们像公务的现场里面我们没办法连到这些网站但是我的手机如果有吃到饱我自己的网路上我还是可以连得到这一点没有公务部门或是学习的场域都是没有办法进是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2794.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2822.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那你教育部即使他们认为说对他们的申请可能会造成一些影响教育部的立场目前只是告诉你用不同的方法来宣导但是你也进不了是的你目前就是进不了也不打算全面进这个进不进的不是在教育部所以你目前立场就是宣导对不对好 那我们就看看你宣导到底可不可以你刚才也报告了有非常多的一些网站不好意思小红书小红书我今天美丽吗名字非常的好但是你从2024年开始到现在 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2824.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2850.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
现在我刚刚去看973应该加两个了因为我跟我助理上去看现在应该是975个人看了然后呢学士缴消息也是要使用小红书要预防诈骗目前为止呢大概是588以上的流量你怎么样来让大家可以由这个地方来去做这样的处理我只是随便举两个你当然有很多其他不一样的这个大概这个小红书的流量你后面要加好几个零吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2852.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2876.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
第一个我没有用我没有使用小红书啦我个人我知道我只告诉你的宣传管道而且你们到时候弄了你刚刚特别提到了有一些的告诉老师要做一些的宣导然后告诉老师有些研讨会我告诉你你在做这个研讨会的时候如何来辨识假讯息或是不要让孩子去上小红书等等之类的下面的老师可能每个人都在看小红书你不觉得这很讽刺吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2878.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2897.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
你可能上面在讲的是如何来区别然后下面每个人都是用TikTok每个人都在看小红书这个就是一个反差所以还是一句话网络成瘾或是大家喜欢看这种短移已经是非常困难如果你现实的人比不上网络里面的讯息我们根本一点办法都没有 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2897.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2924.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
家長一天到晚來告訴我們我們的孩子沉迷於網路那家長每次問的孩子都是你功課考幾分你今天如何這麼不有趣的大人你怎麼你怎麼抵得上這個我們網路裡面那麼瘋狂的一個世界不是嗎所以你們所提出這些方法到底有沒有用次長你有沒有想過我們全力我們身為教育單位我們教育主管機關我們應該是盡全力的去輔導引導老師跟家長你覺得你們現在能耐有辦法引導跟輔導嗎我們盡力而為 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2929.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2949.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
來我們來看一下那我們就用數據來說話謝謝來我們來看一下所以你們經歷來說話你們包括很多的素養的問題嘛對不對你的必修的時數啊等等之類的那我想請問次長你了解目前的成效到底是如何嗎你做了這麼多到底是你是融入還是融化掉啊我們都是課程的融入化是融入還是融化你覺得你有績效嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2952.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2980.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我们都是融入课程的我知道了我的融化是说因为你的融入是你们的目标但是你们达不到任何的基哨所以整个部分就变融化掉了好不好然后呢目前我们来看看这些我们很希望透过这些素养能够分配这些讯息但是呢很多人告诉你说很多的部分里面在课程的设计上面你是零散的融入因为零散的融入里面有一个主轴所以你的成效几乎是看不太到为什么看不到到数字告诉你来我们往下来看 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2981.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3008.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
你看你要告诉我们分辨一些讯息目前说2016是8632024的时候2000多增加了三倍然后我想请问一下次长你如果要透过这些媒体素养让孩子不要去受骗的话你知道他们的样态是怎么样受骗的样态是什么吗应该是很多元的像什么老人家是投资啊那青少年是什么就一些有关于影响到身心比如说自杀啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3009.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3028.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
不是這是受騙自殺不是受騙自殺是被訊息所感染會自傷自殺減肥現在是受騙因為你這邊有很大一塊是希望能夠分辨假訊息不要受騙我們現在回落在受騙你知道他的受騙的樣態是什麼嗎應該很多元吧我知道多元的什麼東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3029.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3043.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
比如說假的減肥啊青少年不會去買減肥藥好不好只有大人才會買瘦瘦症那個都不是受騙那是真正甘心被騙好不好所以我告訴你他的樣態 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3044.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3069.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
其实就是包括上网去买玩具上网去买游戏卡上网去买这些购物的时候他会被骗而且他这个受害的比率是非常的高的这是次长你一定要去了解你才知道媒体素养怎么弄我们再往上往下去看而且在这个地方里面你刚也提到了要强调你们教育部有一个媒体素养的白皮书五大核心能力七大策略三十个行动方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3070.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3084.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
说实在你也没有任何的成效指标所以我个人认为目前为止你可能只剩下一个口号这是提供次长做参考我的时间非常有限而且呢最主要的是因为你没有组织的科目你没有课时你没有教材你没有专任老师 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3085.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3108.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
所以这个部分里面来说的话你很难让这个部分里面看得到成果而且你对于数位落差这个部分你完全没有办法处理所以说你只停留在宣传宣传就是我刚刚所说的台上讲一回事台下就在做你宣传需要避免的事这才是一个政策跟实务上最大的一个落差然后呢媒体素养的政策到底每年变多少预算媒体素养的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3115.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3133.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
告訴114年資訊及科技教育預算裡面72億市長你知道這個部分嗎那72億裡面有關於媒體裡面已經打散在不同的地方我們都到底放到什麼地方我們現在沒有辦法從你的項目科別裡面看得出來市長你可以告訴我嗎我馬上審預算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3134.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3149.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我们应该分散在各个是 分散在各个地方变成地方都会非常小只沦为你用一个没有人看到的网站或者是我刚刚在说的很多的宣传很多告示老师的研讨会很多告示老师的工作坊 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3150.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3171.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
这些东西数量非常的小而且成效都不是太好所以今天给我这一份要提升媒体避免不当的这样子的一个网站我说实在教育部非常的薄弱好 请教育部次长你先休息一下我们请速发部跟我们的这个NCC过来一下谢谢我们时间很快那我想请问一下谢谢主秘 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3173.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3200.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
谢谢两位主密啊那我还是想请问一下你们现在是有这个iWIN的受大家的检举目前的介绍到底是如何跨部会的机制成立这样的部分来我们往下看所以说呢目前为止对儿少生性伤害的比率抒发波跟NCC实际封锁停止解析关闭或这样的部分比例的确有一些的进步的确有些进步无可否认但是还是不够而且下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3201.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3225.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
所有的申述案是翻倍的来成长结果你们告诉我们往下通常你们都是停留在通知业者改善通知业者改善做一些承载之后然后我们完全诉诸于业者来改善你觉得这样办法有办法二指我们刚所说的iWIN当初所设立跨部会最大的一个成效吗谁可以回答这个问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3226.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3249.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那个跟委员报告因为从整个儿少法的规定来看的话通知他改善其实是自律启动的第一个环节第二个环节是如果假设他设有违法比如说里面比例多少比例多少而且呢目前来说呢有关于设计的部分都以情色问题为最多嘛对不对你们都是shut down的都是以情色问题占七成以上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3250.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3277.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
对不对青少年都是以情色问题占七成以上所以你们现在做法的部分里面就是交给业者来改善然后呢如果还是没有办法改善的话呢所以这个部分嘛民众解决爱问受理通知业者少部分放黑名单个案闹大像创意私房这些部分里面你们才做额外的处理但是以近三年有四成的案件当中没有主动的处置都是通知业者改善period结束 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3278.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3295.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這叫保護兒少嗎七成的這樣子情色的這個網站當中最後除非是你被鬧得很大否則你們就是用這個方法來處理跟委員報告因為裡面有一些內容如果假設是兒少本身自己就是行為人的話這部分也必須要以保護兒少作為前提 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3296.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3317.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以除非是已经就是委员您说的已经是重大了涉及到整体的我们才会往后去送交警察或者是要送交警察你觉得这样办法有办法达到保护儿少的目标跟方向吗我说实在的我们不管对于数位部iWIN这种跨外我们都没有问题预算全部在支援是 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3318.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3345.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
但是到底有没有这样的一个成效我个人觉得在对境外平台到底开了几次行政该的行政指导多少的改善然后呢如果你没有做好你实际被划好那比率是多少还有我说实在的目前有没有更强制的一个做法比如广告限制业务限制部分功能停止如果没有的话平台的责任只是停留在一个非常浅薄的一个方向而已那我们怎么办 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3346.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3372.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那個委員你剛才在說的其實就是它是整體的防護的機制的一環不過還不管怎麼樣還是以保護兒少作為前提後面的這些對於它的營運模式的這些限制那必須有其他的主秘我真的必須要說速發部我們願意給予更多的機會跟支持但是詐騙如果沒有任何的一個成效兒少在沒有辦法保護的話你看我們給予你們的經費當中2023年的估算保護這部分50億 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3373.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3399.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
国家通讯数5亿而且防护机构IWIN我们给2亿这些钱我们都会投入但是我们这样子问我们不希望到最后的结果只停留在我们就是通知业者然后后面还要接续这么多当你全部处理完的时候我们儿少的身心已经没有办法等待那么多这是在整个流程的快速的层面部分里面我们一定要请你们再继续跟委员报告因为在 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3400.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3413.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
金額估算部分可能稍微有點超過了不過確實是我覺得是在iWIN或者是兒照防護機制這邊的預算確實是要再提高不過確實不是我們可以提高但是你們基礎是不是也可以提高是 沒問題謝謝客徵委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請萬美玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3432.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3459.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
好 謝謝召委我們有請劉次長請劉次長次長早我看到教育部的報告我整個看過一次那這其中你有指出說短影音跟社群平台的內容與演算法對於未成年的學生的身體健康跟資訊素養構成嚴峻的威脅並直指就是抖音跟小紅書 對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3461.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3480.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
好 那除了抖音有短影音之外其他的這些包括YouTube、IG或者FB、Chat上面也都有短影音為什麼我們沒有去注意到還有其他這些APP裡面這些社群平台我們完全沒有要去管理我們只針對抖音跟小紅書 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3481.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3496.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們只是舉例事實上只要違反兒少法的但你沒寫啊次長回答 謝謝這個我們會事後相關研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3497.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3517.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我們的參考文件上面有寫所以這個我是要提醒次長就是說你如果讓大家覺得你的針對性很強或者是教育部的態度認為只有小紅書跟抖音裡面的內容會有傷害到兒童身心的兒少身心其他都不會我想應該不是這樣的態度對不對不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3519.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3536.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
剛剛有特別講教育部你的態度你剛剛有講抖音的東西進不進不在教育部剛剛本席把你記下來進不進不在教育部但是第一個你的立場很重要次長我請教你你今天代表教育部來備詢進不進抖音這件事情你的立場到底是進還是不進 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3539.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3563.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我們在學術網路上學術網路上是不行的學術網路上是不是用的因為我們教育部也只能管到這一部分好這個是你的立場接下來我們就要談到怎麼去管理這件事情你說我們要禁對孩子有身心傷害的相關的這些APP抖音等等不是針對單音那你想想看你要管理的有這麼多非常的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3564.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3592.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我们看到教育部的报告当中有提到说我们要提供家长因为呢等一下我们来谈谈看老师你要知道啊你的一个态度或者你的一个立场你知道要盲翻了我们基层所有的教师啊要盲翻我们基层所有的教师啊但我们先来看家长的这一块你说报告上提及说家长我们会提供他免费的网络管理跟防护之数位工具包嘛对不对那这个呢你把它放在哪里啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3593.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3616.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我們是結合了我們三大你把它放在哪裡啊這工具包放在哪裡可以看到我們部裡的官網而且我們也結合了三大電信業者我們希望他們家長也可以去那邊來你現在的工具包目前告訴我們說你放在教育部的資科室的官網嘛對不對好次長自己上去看過了嗎沒有沒有為什麼不看我會去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3618.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3633.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
要去看我們看一下我覺得有點慘不忍睹你看到我們資科斯本身的官網我隨便舉說我們之前在資科斯官網上面有三支教學影片我們就看那三支教學影片觀看的次數人次367次最多的1900人次然後424次 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3640.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3664.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
你看人次數這麼少喔莫非啊你還先要對不起喔後面兩位你不要干擾次長悲尋喔你這樣很干擾次長喔那個莫非你現在是要先請大家先熟悉先了解先宣傳說來來來大家先來我們資科室的官網再從官網裡面告訴他說你們再來看那我們怎麼去宣導大家要來怎麼做網路的防護跟管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3665.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3685.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
這多此一舉啊所以你自己官網上面其實瀏覽的人次這個成績是很不理想的那你又怎麼去宣導呢所以我今天要跟您提的是說我們如果今天要去提供家長這樣的東西我恐怕你不是只有單靠資科斯這一點必須跟您提然後我們再來討論到剛才講得沸沸揚揚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3688.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3704.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我包括這本剛才我看次長您剛剛是照這本來念的嘛對嗎我感覺您念的蠻吃力的然後也蠻辛苦的好那這裡面不管是你看到來第一項我們說我們要來管理那這個管理就像剛剛講的我們就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3706.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3723.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
不得安裝但是沒有針對如果今天孩子的手機上他有吃到飽你要怎麼去做管理你只有說不得安裝然後再來往後去看我們剛剛的工具包看來這個工具包現在還沒有去普及那我們再看到第二項的部分培養校園師生素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3726.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3750.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
要幹嘛 辦理教師真能研習 講師培訓然後再往下我們建制中小學數位的教育資源網要叫老師也再來研習然後再往下看我們還要定期辦理資訊素養自我評量的網路活動誰來處理 老師要來幫忙然後我們再來看到我們把這個相關的素養放到12年國教的核心素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3751.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3768.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我相信如果在12年國教的這個核心素養裡面也是我們老師在第一線那最後剛才還提到說本席很認真看你的報告上面還寫說我們要來做這個媒體素養基地學校現在有幾所了有五所有五所 哪五所 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3770.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3792.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我背不出來你背不出來好吧 那來救一下市長吧有分別是師大附中竹南高中中興大學附農還有上化高中以及新化高中那為什麼只有五所他們是種子學校那什麼時候這個種子要把它分產出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3793.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3821.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
他每年都在做他依據他地區然後把附近的學校一起進來這個效果做到現在好嗎114年今年才開始做的現在才開始做的剛才我們看到整個相關的預算經費大概高達了72億那您剛有說就是分散在很多地方本席聽到以後其實也蠻擔憂的分散在很多地方會產生幾個問題第一個就是每一個部 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3821.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3840.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
一個單位我不知道你分散在哪裡大家都要共同來沾一點沾一點這一件事情然後呢再來呢大家怎麼分工然後又怎麼樣去做一個就合作我覺得我都沒有看到所以這個在預算的時候呢我們可能要再來討論一下不是說你把72億然後分散在每個地方這裡一點那裡一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3841.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3868.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那成效會好嗎那再者我認為大家都知道現在我們的老師其實工作壓力已經非常非常的大了如果按照你剛剛講的我請教你一下現在你針對抖音抖音再問你一次進得了嗎我在想到抖音不是我在進的不是教育部在進的我現在問您您覺得進得了嗎因為教育現場最了解如果你告訴我教育現場不了解這題我就不問了 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3870.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3891.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我的確是說進不了進不了嘛對抖音進不了那如果今天抖音進不了我們要用什麼方式讓孩子去學學習他怎麼去做一個自我管理我只是講啦其實我們身為大人你說叫大家說不要去看抖音不要去看小紅書我都不好意思問大家說今天在現場的完全沒有看過小紅書的請舉手 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3894.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3909.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我剛才說我都沒有要問啦結果你們就舉手了你們真的很自動自翻喔完全沒有看過小紅書的喔我說實在話啦 我也是不太相信啦因為現在小紅書真的很多人在看那好 那剛剛沒有舉手的那是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3911.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3923.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
也會看到所以你要怎麼禁我覺得這個要去思考一下當政策下來要教育部去對這麼多的老師對這麼多的教職人員對這麼多的學生你說我們要禁 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3924.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3950.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我覺得如果是沒有辦法去禁的時候你教育部應該是要提出一套你的看法而不是完全接收人家要你這麼做你就硬著頭皮預算編下去就開始弄其實收不到成果的所以今天以上其實本來還有很多其實大家可以要討論的我只有一個結論如果說我們一個政策下來今天是為孩子好不管是他要看抖音看小紅書看臉書等等很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3951.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3966.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我們希望他不要受到傷害我們希望他不要受到詐騙這個是對我們的初衷而不是只針對哪一個APP哪一個平台來做我覺得這樣就偏頗了所以我們要開大門走大路來為孩子去著想 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3967.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3983.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
不只是抖音不只是小紅書其實臉書也有發生過這樣的事情所以臉書其實更大眾在使用那到底要怎麼做我建議教育部好好回去想一想今天速發部也好NCC也好他們有這樣的想法執行在誰在教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3984.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4009.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
在教育部你不要上面這個政策下來你做不好底下下去這些老師對你會怨聲載道所以我希望教育部回去以後好好思考一下這些預算告訴我們一下你到底準備怎麼用才可以讓孩子達到可以有自我去管理怎麼樣去運用在網路使用上面不要去受到傷害所以這個會後希望在預算審查之前給我們一個報告好不好會的謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4012.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4031.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
謝謝萬美齡委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請劉書斌召委質詢有請政事 教育部政事請劉次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4037.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4062.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
好 次長好今天我們討論這個議題是非常重要都希望說兒少有一個安全的環境來使用當然也必須要去避免到過度的管制而且要避免到用禁止來去代替教育所以今天的內容是在於說不當的內容那因此就首先要問的是教育部這一部分如何去判定不當的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4063.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4072.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那這個目前教育部是不是在管理內容啊是不是用學校裡面的iWIN跟不當資訊系統來做防護是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4073.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4092.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
首先分開兩個再強調如果是APPAPP的話在我們學術網路上是不能裝置抖音跟小紅書的因為它是大陸製的轉硬體對 你們是用它的平台或是它的APP對不對APP那是不能裝的這清楚了我現在說的是不當內容如果不當內容的網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4095.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4118.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
的內容透過iWIN或透過iWIN的機制我們會那剛才有講可是內在學術網路當中出現的嘛對不對在學校在學校裡面的話他剛才已經有提到的如果他自己有這些的使用的網路他根本就不要受到這個影響那我們繼續往下看今天最重要的事要講的是不當那這個不當的標準是什麼我們看到你在說的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4119.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4132.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
包括色情 暴力 恐怖 血腥 危險的內容跟有害行為的部分呢通通都是要做進行那特別你們還做了一個收集到黑名單嘛 對吧那這個黑名單當中呢 目前有哪些名單啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4137.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4161.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
跟會員報告 這個黑名單其實是非常多不只是我們教育部主動發現如果一般的民眾 老師 學生有做這樣的同胞但是對 很好你這些名單但是 重要的是如果有被黑名單的話是不是要有經過一個機制實在是重點的就是透過iWIN透過iWIN但是iWIN的標準是什麼我們繼續往下看這邊裡面呢 我說如果一部短影片當中我等一下繼續問到它裡面的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4162.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4173.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
如果一個短影片裡面有持槍射擊伴隨著不雅詞彙因為還有這算不算不當內容我們就來看一看這是這些你們的標準在這裡可是因為很含糊其實沒有辦法去做我們現在看它裡面的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4174.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4177.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
好 這時候我們繼續再往下看這個地方設計到的槍支操作跟設計爆裂就次長你來看這是不是屬於不當的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4204.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4228.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
各位報告事實上任何的經過檢舉的網址或網站透過iWIN它會有一個審查機制審查機制那還有情節的重大輕重所以你們就等一下跟他講每一天有三千萬隻在網路平台上面你們要花多少的能量去做這些事情這就是效率的問題你們針對的目標事實上都不明的問題我們繼續再往下看一個很好笑的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4230.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4248.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
你拿大槍 我拿小槍所以這樣的話算你陣亡好 你就先下去唉唷 這樣子囉蛤 原來小手槍還可以這樣子用喔這是人們很喜歡看的小孩子都很喜歡看欸 我拿小槍 你們拿大槍你們陣亡媽啦 這麼遠算喔不要跟他計較他也只是個孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4249.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4264.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
你們幹嘛我拿小槍我最大你們拿大槍你看這樣的行為我們繼續往下看就停一下這算不算不當的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4268.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4296.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
無法進來現在馬上回答不出來這其實就是你看剛剛對我那個涉及的情況是那都還會造成受傷的情形我們繼續看那到底誰來判定呢教育部剛剛你說IWIN對不對IWIN這些部分還有AI防不勝防三千萬支一天在所有的這樣的平台當中我們繼續往下看另外我們看到教育部長在10月份的時候有被立委問到他說抖音這些有這種不當的訊息傳播 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4297.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4308.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
也有不當的性別障礙 但是最重要是有許多跟學習比較無關的內容也會從這邊拿去做相關的設計但請問一下 連學習無關也要當作是一個要不就禁的內容嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4310.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4328.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
這是部的立場還是個人部長的立場我想委員部長講的是針對我們教育部的學術網路他那部分對一般的網站並沒有這樣子所以你剛才呈現到教育部只能在學校裡面的使用用Tenet來去進行影響對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4330.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4353.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
排除掉 但是在一般的人們當中都沒有嘛這就是非常招人問你 你們就是防不勝防一直做了無效的動作啊 可是等一下當然最重要就是在媒體素養的部分啦 我就跟大家講包括 等一下想 剛剛在說學校那在家長層面你們有數位工具包那就讓下載去進行 那請問推廣的成效如何 下載數如何 使用率又怎麼樣現在有評估了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4355.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4364.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那個我們我剛才有看到一個數據我們數回包一天有一萬多看一下一天有一萬多啊這麼熱門嗎這數據要經過認證的喔暫時間暫停一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4370.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4386.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
現在目前我累積的那個是這樣那個數位包上面到6月份到現在已經有1萬5千人瀏覽了1萬5千人有沒有下載 瀏覽跟下載是一回事吧你沒有下載你怎麼去處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4387.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4403.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
不好意思委員我補充一下我們的數位工具包它是一個操作手冊那就是提供家長有那個iPhone的手機或是其他Android的手機怎麼用手機有的那一種家長防護親子帳號的功能去做這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4404.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4420.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
但是你沒有辦法 你是他有瀏覽但是沒有辦法認定說他的使用率會足夠對不對你沒有做後面的後續嗎是 委員這方面我們會盡力去好 這就涉及到你的預算了你有沒有效果 事實上這部分是應該要打大找舌扣的大家這個分級的部分 那請一下速發部的主秘 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4428.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4439.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
是 委員好請問一下你們有提到說今年年底的時候要提出建立的這個APP的分級制度有這個危害兒少的疑慮的部分那請問現在的進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4445.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4462.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這個APP的分級制度如果是我們部長之前有提到的那我們就會在年底以前就把這個東西妳好像很不熟悉不是嗎我們現在是有在盤點這個相關遊戲的年底現在不到一個半月了耶有有有那我們現在其實主要是透過兩種方式啦一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4464.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4487.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
危害这个国安的部分来处理另外是游戏分级的主要的部分来处理这样子主要是从这两个面上那你们分级会大概分成几类就分成这两类吗大概是好 这一部分应该时间到了所以这边你们应该其实应该很快要有这个报告出现给北本席那当然就是刚才那三个部分的话这三支我们现在只放两片而已啦请问这算不算不当内容 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4489.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4509.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個要有專業的判斷對就是因為今天是不當內容就是可以都可以去做沒有人判斷的沒有人做一個標準判斷的話就形成會過度的去限制尤其是剛才所說的一個創意的這個內容上面其實我剛才還問一下教育部或是現在問一下速發部這邊如果是真的學習有害的部分像 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4509.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4530.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們再看到的K-POP他們這種很多創意的那種它跟學習可能學習無關這部分可能都被禁掉了所以請兩個部說三個部會通通要對它是不是哪些是真正叫不當內容必須要提出來真正的一個標準出來這部分進度哪裡編在哪個項目我們繼續往下看這不剛才說的每天有三千部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4530.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4560.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
三千萬隻的影印在這裡請教育部跟速發部這邊都要清楚怎麼去編啊怎麼去管啊 實在是沒有效的啊那我們繼續再往下看所以請教育部跟速發部要提供的這個書面報告給本席明確的定義跟清楚的規劃速發部這邊可以嗎可以啊好 在今年年底之前有新的APP的情形執行那我們再繼續再往下看的是說屬於教育部的次長請由次長到這邊來謝謝 謝謝速發部的主秘 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4561.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4574.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
很重要的剛才所提到的講到了媒體素養 科技資訊等等這跟數位素養都是一樣的嗎定義是一樣的嗎 不一樣吧那你可以說出來一個嗎科技素養跟媒體素養 差異性 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4576.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4603.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
科技素養是代表全面性的科技資訊素養屬於數位學習跟AI那一部分那媒體素養不是 我是資訊素養對 那我覺得那媒體素養媒體素養就是讓師生多了解還有家長多了解所謂的是變成什麼是假訊息還有一些對 所以如果市長我問一個非常重要的問題在我們108課當當中有一個科技資訊與媒體素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4606.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4632.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這裡面當中其實啊你剛才所說的科技啊還包括的是數位啊這些部分最重要其實就是在媒體的素養就是它的視讀能力對不對但是你們在編預算的時候我們往下看啦這邊已經講到的師大林玉鵬教授說呢導致的因為定義不清楚這是媒體的素養這部分不清楚而且形成了這樣很多的額外的負擔容不上各個教育領域是分散的更重要的是因為它定位不明 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4633.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4656.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
你們剛才說的四個 其實媒體只有十七種 可是最重要是在媒體的部分教育現場是無所適從啊 還更重要的是有沒有看到把他的預算拿出來看的時候啊就以你們這麼多頁的這個 付的一百一十五年就是我們等一下就要審的部分就可以看到用媒體素養下去看的時候才零欸以這個預算才零欸 可是事實上你們可能編在三部在各個地方 那請問一下一一五年到底你們編的多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4661.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4681.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
跟委員報告我們媒體素養部分在115年化是將近4000萬的部分在做推動那是有個專門的地方呈現出來嗎不好意思因為它這個經費化是在各個市處的部分這部分確實要請要做報告出來不然你們預算的時候這是看不到你又是剛剛您說的這麼重要的媒體素養才是試圖能力才是重要的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4682.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4703.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
好 这部分我们继续往下看的是如果这边的把请教育部一定要注意到媒体素养那个相关这个独立的项目必须要把它独立出来特别就是你要做个加注不然是没办法去认识出来的那这边呢我们又看到的是现在可能真的看到的是媒体素养已经变成一个附属的概念包括是怎么样的一个成效测证时数跟学习减和指标 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4704.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4719.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
應該要提出來是在預算的時候一定要做出來一定要補上來目前或說現在有沒有有沒有這樣的一個這些時數跟課程減和指標我們是應該都有我們都有都有課程的都有相關的課程那你學期減和指標有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4724.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4740.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
沒辦法進行所以就是沒有嘛既然的媒體素養這麼大 識別這麼重要才是最後把關的部分應該把這邊的檢核指標呈現出來不然是沒有效的包括現在所講的 識讀才是重要的關鍵那我們最後希望是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4740.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4769.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
包括了這些課程當中這個去年是100112年有94場113年有86場次數都還比較少場次比較少這個對於教師的培育也是不夠的數量不增房減這是事實喔這部分也要去知道這個效果那最後就是剛才效果已經知道這個包括這些部分的數值指標教育基地學校你剛才說好像只有4所如果我這樣看的話我幫你找出來了事實上有這麼多所114年有46所這邊都是需要這樣加強的最後就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4770.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4785.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我要最後做一個結論再來說支持兒少的對於他們保護在網路上面的不能把它寫成禁止跟屏蔽你定義一定要做清楚啊制度一定要這樣完整沒有效的三千萬隻怎麼會問你們現在用的禁止平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4786.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4809.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
家學校能夠管可是其他他還有很多地方家裡甚至他自己用手機就可以培養執行你要有效要有績效的部分教育也要到位特別的老師的部分課程的部分通通要讓他以教育回到你最大的本位好嗎是的好這邊是不是能夠給這個部分是不是在12月中旬給一個報告是會的會的好OK好謝謝大家一起加油謝謝劉淑斌詹委之詢官員請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4814.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4836.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
接下来请叶元之委员咨询主席好 麻烦请那个次长教育部次长委员好 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4838.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4854.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那個次長好今天大家討論那個題目教育部的報告裡面是講說抖音小紅說很恐怖所以要兩個方法一個方法就是學術網路要禁第二個方法是加強有關於相關的試讀能力對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4855.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4868.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
大概是這樣吧是的那我接下來要跟你討論一下如果說講到社群媒體可能會對小朋友的影響應該是不同的媒體都會有吧對不對是的那特別但是我不知道為什麼教育部第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4870.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4899.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
在上個月特別針對小紅書發了一個叫做不迷小紅書青春不迷返的一個專區就是只有針對小紅書做專區那我有看到上面你們列了一大堆其中很大一部分都在講說小紅書裡面有很多詐騙行為市長知道這個事嗎是的 有知道那麼這樣讓我的感覺是怎樣就是好像小紅書只有詐騙其他社群都沒有詐騙我們事實上也對其他的但是沒有專區啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4900.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
4913.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
沒有專區啊所以你今天只宣布你今天只在這個地方成立專區那大家會產生一個錯覺啊覺得他詐騙特別嚴重然後其他好像就還好大家就有這個錯覺啊其他怎麼沒專區 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
4914.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
4932.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
我們在臉書跟IG都有相關的什麼有專區喔其實跟委員報告就是如果針對短影音的這個教育或是社群平台的教育社群平台教育我們也有那個臉書IG的專區沒有啊你們也沒有特別宣傳啊我也都查不到啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
4933.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
4947.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
委員這個部分我們主要是以那翠有沒有專區如果委員建議這個我們回去可以再加強你們現在說小紅書的詐騙很嚴重嘛400多件嘛你知道翠的詐騙幾件嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
4949.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
4970.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
你看這個是你們特別發文給各個學校啦然後有學校在網路上把它貼出來啦就說因為根據警政署165打詐疑標板縣市案例列有423件使用小紅書遭詐騙的案例423件 知道萃幾件嗎你知道昨天萃有幾件嗎猜一下 市長你猜一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
4971.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
4988.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
應該數萬件吧昨天的萃我查了六千四百六十六件這個就是警政署的打炸儀錶板結果你弄一個小紅書專區說他炸變嚴重四百二十三件結果萃六千四百六十六件沒專區 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
4990.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5012.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我覺得教育部那個標準相當奇怪所以如果你是要以詐騙假訊息這種角度禁止或者是提供試讀能力的話我不知道這個只針對小紅書或者是抖音是不是政治考量啊並沒有 我們真的沒有那為什麼你看以詐騙來講的話光一天就6466件你卻沒有陳寗專區 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5017.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5029.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們事後會專程...事後?所以沒有來質詢就沒有?就很奇怪嘛這個標準很怪嘛很怪嘛然後第二個喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5030.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5055.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
你剛剛是講說因為會有資安問題所以特別要禁抖音跟小紅書那我問一下主要是因為抖音跟小紅書是中國大陸那邊的對吧覺得會有資安問題那如果以後這兩家社群忽然間不屬於中國大陸的話那就不禁了嗎基本上是的是是不是所以因為現在Ttalk確定會變美國抖音 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5056.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5079.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
所以只要在TikTok變成美國抖音的那一刻TikTok就解禁了教育部的立場是這樣我們的立場是依據我們今年九月通過的治安法上面是說不能裝置或錄製中國大陸製的資通訊軟件沒關係 我就確認一下嘛所以這個抖音變美國抖音就解禁 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5080.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5108.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
所以換句話說今天教育部去禁抖音跟小紅書其實你們比較重視的是治安的問題啦對於你們報告裡面寫一大堆什麼假消息啊 詐騙啊什麼那個小朋友看了訊息之後看了訊息會進入一個兔子洞然後因為社群會不斷推播他有興趣的東西他會一直看下去嘛其實這個東西在所有的社群都是這樣這是演算法的問題所以你們比較重視的治安但至於說其他部分主要是要透過試讀來解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5110.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5139.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我事實上還根據兒少法我們也在乎他有沒有一些內容違反到法律是不禁止的啦我說法律禁止都不行嘛法律禁止都不行我是說在法律禁止之外你們比如針對成癮或者是其他的部分你們是透過試讀嗎叫他們不要一直看嘛沒有那個OK OK那除了社群之外現在教育部留著NCC可不可以上來一下NCC也上來一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5141.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5166.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這個我認為啦你們如果要推廣嗜讀現在嗜讀其實社群其實只是一個部分啦電視新聞還有各種廣告都一樣我來跟NCE跟教育部請教一下這是在前一段時間網路上非常紅的一個影片那時候宣傳罷免這個爸爸叫小朋友趕快去做功課小朋友說國家亂七八糟我讀書有什麼用啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5168.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5189.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那時候讓大家發現文革時代的那種思想出來了天大地大沒有毛主席大讀書算什麼救國才重要所以要搞罷免請問一下站在教育部的立場次長你贊同這樣的觀點嗎就是爸爸叫小朋友讀書然後小朋友說讀什麼書啊我要去搞罷免啦你站教育的角度你贊成這樣的觀點嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5190.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5206.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我教育的人 我是教育的人我不對這件事情有個人的comment不是 我問你贊不贊成不comment 你在質詢耶你來背詢耶 可以不comment喔這個你怕得罪那些罷免方喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5207.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5236.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
不是啦 這跟教學無關學校老師在叫學生讀書學生說我不要做功課了因為我要有政治活動我要去從事政治活動各位有沒有老師要從事任何的政治活動我們尊重個人的行為所以教育部連說家長叫小朋友做功課小朋友說我不要做功課 我不要讀書了國家亂七八糟 念書也沒有教育部都覺得OK |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5237.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5259.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
站在教育部次長的角度覺得這樣是OK的我尊重教育部啦這就是我們的教育部嘛就是大家可受公平嘛因為這是你的價值觀嘛這是你的價值觀你的價值觀就覺得這樣子的事情你是可以允許的嘛沒有關係啦我不知道為什麼你這麼害怕得罪罷免方啦如果是我我就會覺得可以這樣子嗎做出超級錯誤的示範 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5261.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5283.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
如果一百個小朋友裡面大家全部出來爸媽叫小朋友做功課小朋友都說不要啦 我有什麼事情啦比做功課還重要啦或什麼 我要去搞罷免啦你覺得OK的 次長是覺得OK的這種示範作用 次長是覺得OK的這就是我們的教育部啦我沒有說OK啊那你覺得可不可以我沒有說OK你覺得沒有不OK 也沒有覺得OK |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5284.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5307.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
你只是不敢表達意見市長啊你是教育部欸如果你今天是民進黨發言人的話你不表達意見我沒有意見啦你是教育部教育部面對這樣的事情你都可以說我沒有意見那你在那邊講什麼嗜讀啦如果牽涉到所有價值判斷都在講說我沒意見那你幹嘛講嗜讀你就說尊重大家的判斷就好了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5308.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5335.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
沒有 我還是承諾這跟教學有沒有關係如果與教學學習無關的那我們就不應該請問家庭教育跟教學有沒有關係難道老師在學校教學生不希望家長也可以配合嗎做功課 如果說小朋友不做功課不希望教小朋友把功課做好嗎這怎麼會跟教育沒關係不要越講越誇張啦再來接下來 我來問一下這個NCC啦跟教育文化委員會有關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5336.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5355.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我們 我相信召委雖然跟我不同黨啦但是大家很清楚啦有的時候有一些委員因為選區有一些學校可能設備真的很不OK會排考察去看一下那個選區的學校找教育部官員去了解一下這個在我們委員會應該很正常吧民進黨的召委也有幫民進黨的立委排過 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5356.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5375.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
很正常吧結果有名嘴或節目主持人在講說怎麼會去考察呢那個時候我去國中考察結果他說怎麼可能會我去國小考察怎麼會去國小呢要也是去國中啊然後這個講一大堆然後還有名嘴繼續講說什麼這個下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5380.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5406.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
他說很掉漆啊去什麼地方單位都沒來明明地方縣市教育局都有來但是直接在電視上說沒來然後說好奇怪喔如果真的是考察的話國民黨議員怎麼都沒來我問一下那個 趙偉趙偉我可以問一下我們委員會的主秘嗎主秘上次我們有去現場有沒有地方的官員有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5408.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5430.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
有吧 詢問一下 會議詢問一下 有沒有我記得應該有啊有嘛 那他說沒有議員我們委員會考察會通知議員嗎這個不會啊不會通知嘛然後他說考察小學都是議員層級做的事情那所以我們教育文化委員會一堆委員去考察小學大家都在做議員喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5433.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5457.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這擺明是假消息啊擺明假消息那請問一下祖密這個要怎麼試讀啊我看過那個教育部的那個報告他講說我們要讓小朋友知道他們為什麼要這樣子報導為什麼要做這件事情那我不知道這一家媒體綠媒就用假消息他是為什麼要做這些假消息啊祖密 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5459.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5481.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
就是那麼明顯的事情不求證那這個在NCC的角度是要怎麼處理我們要兩個嘛一個是事後開罰一個是事前預防然後再來針對小朋友做試讀嘛事前預防大概沒辦法做沒有辦法那你要不要跟教育部討論一下因為我們覺得如果有些社群媒體委員你剛才在說的是那個假消息這件事情因為是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5482.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5497.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
就是違反事實查證的這個義務我們現在針對小朋友嘛那個 次郎來一下小朋友看到這個報導啊會覺得對一個立委怎麼來學校幫助我們爭取預算呢這不是議員該做的事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5499.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5520.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
然後就開始覺得 好像下次有立法委員去考察的時候呢小朋友就用很異樣眼光 欸你來幹嘛其實立委去都是幫忙爭取預算嘛 沒錯吧結果他問你來幹嘛 完全錯誤的觀念那這個部分要不要試讀 加強試讀一下所以我們希望我們的老師能引導同學共同討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5521.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5544.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
共同討論是不是對 是的那你是不是覺得這個試讀也很重要有一些特定媒體做特定的假消息政治攻擊是的是的後面很多案例啦這個跟我個人有關的去投票當天說我姍姍來遲請問一下祖密投票時間是幾點到幾點投票你投票時間是幾點到幾點 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5547.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5575.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
8點到4點你沒有投過票喔?有有8點到4點嘛你是不是什麼時候去投都可以10點半去然後當天投票說直接說遲到 三三來遲這樣子有沒有違反違反什麼NCC的原則沒有 我們現在就是未報告27條有所謂的違反事實查證違反事實查證然後咧 也沒辦法事先預防嘛因為這個就直播就播出去了啊所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5576.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5586.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
市長是不是也要加強一下試讀特定媒體的試讀好 再來後面還有啦這個民進黨立委吳佩奕啊說我潑他水啊直接造謠啊後來 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5589.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5617.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
後來直接另外一個三立的電視台把畫面還原我沒有潑他水結果有一家媒體他覺得這樣子攻擊不到我打電話給我偷錄音偷錄音之後然後說我說是另外一個立委潑的水偷錄音主委你問一下記者偷錄音這個有沒有違反什麼還是沒有如果假設是那個在公開場合的話大概沒有不是公開打電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5619.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5641.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
打電話的話目前這塊是你打電話沒有規範但是有沒有需要所以新聞記者是可以隨便打給人家就沒有採訪就直接偷錄音的可以然後偷錄音之後還自己亂講那個要跟不同層次來談一個是是不是有刑事責任跟我現在講一下因為趙偉站起來很久我也不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5642.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5671.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
今天一連串下來大家在討論的是怎麼樣不要讓小朋友接受到錯誤訊息假訊息影響到他獨立判斷精神所以我們要識讀識讀就是要了解這個媒體他為什麼有什麼動機要這樣子做然後真相是如何各方面要破除虛妄了解真相獨立判斷獨立思考不要被影響這是識讀主要的目的社群媒體可能會有假消息可能會有詐騙可能會有治安問題同樣的主流新聞媒體假消息也一大堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5673.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5679.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
教育部不用重視嗎不用讓小朋友了解為什麼特地媒體老是喜歡散發跟政治有關的假消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5680.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5710.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
然後第二個事後防閉事後防閉教育部現在的做法是屏蔽校園網路那NCC的做法是事後裁罰你們是這樣嘛但你們有事先的機制嗎現在這些新聞自律委員會都不用討論都連偷錄音然後亂講假消息不用查證新聞他們都沒有自律委員會嗎NCC目前他們各個新聞台其實都有自律委員會那為什麼還會這樣子然後NCC跟好像都不存在一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5711.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5726.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
前一段時間假消息一大堆都不存在一樣NCE都不存在一樣有任何的檢舉我們都會依照程序來處理啊所以你們就是有人檢舉你們才會處理嘛是但是假消息沒人檢舉就讓他在台灣社會散佈嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5727.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5754.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那剩下的話可能就是了那如果是按照你這種消息態度教育部也不用媒體試讀了啦所以我們包括事先防備還有閱聽人自己的試讀以及事後的裁罰都要並重嘛媒體試讀NCC加油好不好好 謝謝然後教育部針對新聞做那麼多假消息也希望你排同樣重要的試讀的課程可以嗎我們以後努力以後努力那現在不努力喔謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5759.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5781.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
謝謝葉元之委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請葛如君委員質詢好 謝謝主席有請教育部劉國偉次長請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5799.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5809.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
市長好 謝謝主席市長早安不曉得您在青少年的時期有沒有讀過少年維特的煩惱沒有那您有沒有煩惱少年時期 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5810.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5836.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
應該很多 我不記得是嘛 大家都有煩惱那這本書我跟您介紹一下這個作者是戈德在25歲那一年寫出這本《世界名著》描寫青年的戀愛的苦澀跟情懷這個日記體的小說出版以後造成了全球轟動青少年更爭相模仿他的服裝最後主角在故事裡面寫了一封決別信告別這個世界次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5837.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5864.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
今天教育部的書面報告提到特定短影音平台推送智商影片傳達負面訊息這些有負面訊息的媒介都要在校園裡面禁止那教育部要不要禁止學生閱讀少年維特的煩惱還是說少年還是維特在台灣都不能有煩惱了只能正面積極陽光充滿愛啊是這樣嗎是還是不是只要有人檢舉我們就會去進入iWIN去討論哇 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5868.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5882.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
市長我再給你一個機會啊如果有人檢舉少年維特的煩惱有問題你們要去討論要不要進這本書啊我再給你一個機會喔你真的要這樣做嗎你確定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5884.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5909.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
你確定嗎我們教育部沒有在禁止書籍的這部電影對嘛 什麼東西啊我們剛剛講的是這本書好 老實說啦這本書被翻譯成20國語言也有電影啦好啦 所以只有有人檢舉叫《靜少年維特的煩惱》這部電影是不是電影也不是教育部管的對嘛 那你講的好像所以怎麼樣短影音就是你管的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5910.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5938.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
也不是對嘛所以我想我這一點市長我覺得您的回應我很緊張但是我先給您肯定您剛剛有一句話我很認同抖音 短音能不能進不能進嘛 進不了嘛用禁止來限制青少年去理解這個世界是完全無效的作為一個負責任的大人我們要教導他認知訊息哪個不能聽 哪個不能看用這種方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5939.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5956.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
去限制是可恥的那我們看到教育部呢你們是怎麼樣說什麼行動應用APP行動應用APP是你們管的嗎是你們管的嗎那沒關係那我們還看到這速發部還講什麼很危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5957.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
5970.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
老實說啦真的是不要把目標拿來亂槍打鳥啦這些大的APP的平台都有對資安做管理不要見紅就閃好像很害怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
5972.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
5999.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
事實上我們要看其實一個曾經發文要挺戒嚴的執政黨被罵爆以後現在要妄想透過限制跟禁止下載APP來阻止學生獲得多元的訊息真的是民眾會合理懷疑這個政府是不是就是挺戒嚴但是現在怎麼樣只能做不能說又要讓校園裡面有這種戒嚴的感受跟恐怖為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6000.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6015.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我報告次長這件事情我們真的是非常難過也非常憤怒你們還有可能不只要控制學生的思想 認知還要控制學生的限制學生的人生自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6016.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6042.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
近期教育部發文給各大學要求學校必須與學生赴中國大陸交流一個月前上平台登錄並於活動完成一個月後進行事後登錄回報活動概況是怎麼樣啊連系學會社團交流都包含在內這份公文我告訴你還有第二頁更扯 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6043.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6061.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
更扯在右邊下面那個框框市長你自己看一下學校因強化自我檢核本部將不定時檢查填報情形列入行政紀錄以及獎補助款是參據 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6063.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6084.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
哪一個法條哪一個法條讓你們這樣做的請教次長教育部要求學生赴大陸交流必須自我檢核要求學校通報參考赴陸的行程法源依據是什麼你現在就回答學生喔學生喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6087.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6110.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
首先第一個我們不是要求學生填報我們是要求的是學校來填報而不是學生市長你仔細看清楚喔社團也算喔阿什麼樣學生去學生不用跟學校講喔那學校填報學生不用寫東西學校是怎麼填報搞清楚喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6115.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6135.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
市長你知不知道你們的教育部在做什麼事情啊還要回報活動概況系學會社團交流都在內就是這樣啊報告委員我們這個規定的話是因為在過去的話我問的是法源我不要問你什麼需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6137.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6161.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
法源依據是什麼政府要不要依法行政法源當然要我們那個自我檢核表的話它上面的一些項目的話第一個規定的話不好意思我問您的是法源依據是什麼我們也跟你要自我檢核表裡面不給啊你現在要不要提出來給本席你不用花時間在這邊唸啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6163.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6191.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們依據那個兩岸關係條例33條還有33之一裡面有提到學生要自我檢核嗎不是裡面有提到學生要填表嗎我是說這些項目我報告 市長您看清楚學校辦理學生附入交流活動學生參加附入交流活動以及學校協助應落實至平台填報你有主持嗎你有說學校填嗎學校叫學生填學生讓學校來填這有什麼差別嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6192.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6217.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
學生又不是公務人員校方有什麼義務要通報學生賦錄的行程啊學生有什麼義務要進行自我檢核啊這不是綠色恐怖什麼是綠色恐怖還是說教育部要推給陸委會已經在推了嘛還是陸委會又來我們教育部就照轉啊現在教育部到底是教育部還是陸委會的下級機關啊講清楚好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6218.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6240.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
說實在我再強調我們不會要求學生填寫我們是希望提醒學生學校去有沒有在那些表格裡面有沒有違反到我們兩岸人民條例的三十三條跟三十五條的規定我們是提醒有沒有自我檢核提醒自我檢核就不叫自我檢核啦是這個意思市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6240.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6251.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我們是理工背井的不要玩文字遊戲啦我直接就告訴你啦為什麼我們在此如此憤怒我是代表學校代表學生有學生向本席辦公室反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6252.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6279.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
直接就被要求進行自我檢核學生說不清楚如何向教育部通報大家都很困擾所以這個繁瑣的行政流程是由各系辦公室負責學生向系上說明行程規劃再由系辦公室處理後續通報行程這跟學生無關嗎這跟學校無關嗎這只是提醒嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6280.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6303.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
哇 這強調如果學生個案上面有困擾我們國際司一定會提供協助這什麼又是個案這是公文發到全部的學校啊是的 如果各級學校學校有意見來 個別找教育部這不是審查 什麼是審查啊這不是檢核 什麼是檢核啊我們並沒有審查我們也沒有阻止他們不過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6305.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6328.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那就看哪一個學校要來找教育部啦是不是這個意思剛剛就這個意思嘛有意見的人來找我們這不是檢核這是什麼通案就是通案我們在立法院問的是通案你們弄了一個根本沒有法源依據的東西然後叫什麼有意見的學校來找我們有意見的個案學生來找我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6329.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6357.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
這什麼年代啊我們現在在2025年啊不要想要去對這種什麼思想審查一紙公文大學雞飛狗跳教育部什麼時候才能做有點幫助的事檢核表能不能給我們我們要了不願意給啊怎麼回事啊我們有沒有要過嘛我們有沒有要過有嘛搞不清楚了我們要過你們不給 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6359.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6376.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
提出來今天會後就提出來好嗎好的那次長我們之前就已經提過了有很多老師是不需要去提出這個這個機關同意的你們也去做這些事情整體來講我覺得真的會讓人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6377.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6398.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
有一種疑惑啦到底你們教育部是在搞教育還是在搞大陸交流的限制啊市長我先對您深感遺憾我剛剛真的是替學生學校我捍衛學生的自由這一點我們一定是要盡力的您是不是盡力捍衛學生的自由您是不是盡力 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6399.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6412.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
會的對嘛所以我希望您可以理解我們的憤怒與遺憾教育部認為我國的大學生會因為短短幾天的互動就愉悅堅守的原則讓國家失去尊嚴會有這種事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6414.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6443.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
如果沒有 我們有自信為什麼要害怕學生跟對岸自由來往市長 本席堅信自由的土壤才能孕育出豐富的文化最近有一個文化逆襲的案例就是本院的王世堅委員啊這個變成對岸最紅的迷因啊人人開口都是匆匆容容 有刃有餘啊本席認為應該更加強這樣的交流最後一定是我們的文化在對岸發揚光大市長 您對台灣的教育有沒有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6444.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6473.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
有的有信心我們教育部拿出應有的態度勇敢的告訴陸委會兩岸的學術交流往來不要被綁手綁腳對大家有信心好不好那接下來我其實還有一點時間我想因為您是理工背景的對您深有期待我跟您關心一下數位平權的議題聯合報這個進行大學生使用AI習慣的專題報導這個一二三類組的學生八成以上認為使用AI工具能提升學習效率 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6474.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6491.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那學生常在使用上使用AI輔助啊那次長您來自電機系嘛這個二類組的科系次長平常有沒有在用AI工具啊有那都使用哪些AI工具CheckGPT那之前在課堂上會鼓勵學生使用AI工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6492.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6509.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
并不鼓励并不鼓励那这些学生都违反了老师的规则了吗没有好 没关系我们尊重每一位老师的想法但是根据联合报的调查就是八成以上在用那八成以上这些学生使用呢您用的就是最主流的CHAT GPT 95.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6511.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6530.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我也在用我最近AI實習生寶博也串了OpenAI其次Gemini佔了48%另外Microsoft CopilotCanva和Notebook都有市長您CheckGPT有付費嗎沒有那您知道CheckGPT目前的定價多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6532.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6548.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
不好意思這個主席我暫一點時間因為這很重要這學生的選意我覺得一個月20塊美金吧很好PLUS方案一個月20塊美金您知道有沒有更貴的有有嗎有有完整功能的PRO方案200塊美金一個月告訴市長這還不是最貴的 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6549.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6560.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
這還不是最貴的Gemini的Google AI Ultra最近有新版確實評價不錯但我們不做任何推薦一個月的訂閱費是台幣8150塊學生常用的Canva個人訂閱年費3600塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6565.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6590.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
次長前面的調查你也看到了只要訂閱一種以上的AI工具學生都在用每個月光是AI的支出隨便超過一千塊因此多數的學生可能會使用免費版我想跟次長一樣但是家境好的學生可能訂閱一個以上的AI工具完整版進階版Plus版Pro版Expert版Enterprise版 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6591.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6613.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
造成數位落差數位的不平等目前各部會我們也是支持我們也真的是給予肯定文化部發文化幣給青年事後調查確定能夠促進青少年接觸藝文產業達到文化平權本席要再次呼籲教育部您又是理工方面的專業您應該知道數位平權科技很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6613.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6615.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
具體做法可不可以研議一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6634.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6650.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
如果是屬於全民使用就不在我們教育部的權責我們講青少年 教育部管的 學校的我們會去研議具體說法請教育部邀請各部會討論後兩個月內書面報告提供的本席可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6652.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6681.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
可以好 謝謝次長我想今天次長的答覆我們還是要勤勉捍衛教育的專業師生的尊嚴與自由那多位教育議題發生不要把時間資源浪費在政治操作去畫紅線阻礙學術交流我們民主要有自信我們的個人的自主的權利也要受到保護應該多多針對教育有關的政策我們剛剛就給你一個很好的題目希望教育部放眼全球不要把目光只集中在對岸好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6682.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6690.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
好 謝謝主席 謝謝市長好 謝謝葛如君委員我們再來請陳秀寶召委諮詢謝謝主席先請速發部胡竹敏好 請胡竹敏 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6716.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6731.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我先來說一下最近有一則新聞家長們很關心丹麥政府宣布將禁止15歲以下的兒童使用社群媒體不過有授權家長如果在特定的評估之後13歲以上的兒童可以使用社群媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6732.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6749.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
科學的研究我們人類的大腦在20到25歲才算成熟所以醫界一直在提醒說15歲以前的大腦不應該被演算法來綁架這是非常危險的那會有什麼危險在我們負責情緒調節自我控制的 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6749.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6778.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這個前額葉皮脂還沒有成熟之前我們的孩子可能因為這些過度的刺激他會情緒過度敏感他會有焦慮恐慌會造成可能社交的焦慮注意力下降難以專注然後大腦可能會被這些短隱音訓練成這個快感疑慮所以沒有耐心對學習會有造成障礙這種種的這個嚴重的影響其實醫界學界都一直在提醒但是丹麥也說他們不是禁止社群 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6779.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6791.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
是在保護我們孩子大腦的發展竹敏今天排的這一個專報主要是針對如何防範不當的短影音尤其是像抖音這一類的來影響對我們青少年的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6794.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6818.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以我這邊先跟說法部討論一下國際版的抖音這個問題首先我想請先了解一下目前國際版的抖音在台灣設法律代表的問題根據我們的詐欺犯罪妨礙條例第29條第一項的規定在台無營業所或住所或沒有設立分公司者要指定法律代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6818.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6842.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那目前為止請問國際版的抖音設置法律代表的進度如何如果是TikTok的這件事情那他們有來申請法律代表那相關部會正在審查當中所以已經有來申請了也正在審查那這個我們會不會有一個時間的限制我們現在正在審查包括陸委會經濟部等等單位都在審查當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6843.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6856.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
所以他已經送進來的審查就是我們這邊要接手的程序了以對這個國際版的抖音來講他已經有提出這樣的申請了那目前我們速發部跟國際版的抖音這個溝通的窗口是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6857.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6879.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
目前有窗口吗他们其实在申请的时候有一个台湾的法律代表在帮忙那会透过他们来讨论台湾这个法律的代表是台湾在台代表还是他们自己的员工在台湾的法律代表是在台湾的法律代表那我们目前运作跟配合的方式是什么如果我们有一些管理的需要有一些相关的程序我们是直接请他转达还是他可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6880.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6907.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
做初步的處理他就是接受一些法律的部分就跟防詐條例打詐條例相關的東西他們可以協助那他只是接了我們的我們相關的文件還是說對 只接受相關的文件而已那目前國際版的抖音在國際間還是有存在這個所謂言論審查跟用戶資料蒐集這個疑慮所以目前我們台灣的使用者的這個數據或是內容有沒有需要做相關言論的審查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6908.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
6924.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們台灣的人使用這個國際版的抖音我們的內容會不會就需要做這個言論審查的這個程序嗎有聽說就是我們台灣的內容是送到中國的深圳這邊進行內容審查那你們有掌握這樣的狀況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
6926.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
6944.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
目前我们在审查是针对他的不是我们的审查是我们的用户我们发表的言录我们相关的资料一般都是没有在看的没有在看他们的事前的东西就像刚才那个NCC在讲这个属于言论自由的范围我们大概都没有积极在看不是我们对 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
6945.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
6972.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我是说我们的人我们台湾人我们自己国人使用这个国际版的这个抖音的时候我们自己相关的言论相关的发表是不是会被抖音公司做言论审查这些相关的数据相关的言论是被收集这个你们有没有掌握我跟你讲一个是TikTok一个是抖音如果是抖音的话我们非常的确定它会送回去中国大陆那边那如果是TikTok的部分这个就是我们正在研究的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
6972.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7001.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以你有確定就是說我剛剛問的是說國際版的抖音也是會送回去中國大陸深圳這邊做審查所以你沒有掌握這個狀況那好現在也有聲音說是希望國際版的抖音要落地納管那訴法部這邊你們對國際版的抖音落地納管你們有什麼想法或是你們覺得應該要怎麼正好就是我們陸委會跟經濟部正在就相關的事項做審查就是它的落地審查這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7003.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7027.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好那這邊我要提醒一下書發部就是說針對這個代表的審查這個法律代表審查應該要加速來進行因為我們如果有相關的一些責任才能依法問責那也希望說對於像詐騙不當以及兒童兒少的內容我們要進行相關的管理那這個所以法律代表的設置是非常重要的一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7027.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7043.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那目前也有傳聞說目前台灣的這個TikTok是由日本來做管理也有說是澳洲管理那日本的這個國際版的影音的高層的這個主管呢有來台灣喔也聽說跟速發部這邊有一些互動 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7044.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7069.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那這個部分呢我想我還是要提醒書發部其實我們跟TikTok這邊互動我們要注意這個分際畢竟這是我們一直非常需要去防範的一個部分所以對於這個TikTok它的中資背景是我們要很謹慎面對我想這個書發部本身也有自己的這樣的一個想法在那這邊呢我再請次長您也過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7072.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7098.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
在这边我想先询问两位两位认为这个抖音TikTok这个内容对青少年的影响大吗次长你先说如果它是影响的内容部分的内容如果影响到青少年的身心发展那就应该把那个内容所定制署名的您觉得呢您觉得目前我们孩子在使用抖音这方面你觉得对我们青少年影响大不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7100.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7122.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
基本上我們是技術的主管機關那我們都會跟衛福部或者是比如說遊戲業者我們會跟消防官那些做一些討論那我想請教你們覺得兩位覺得現在的管理對於這個兒少內容的管控是不是有效的或者說你回答我覺得做得夠不夠有沒有要加強的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7123.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7142.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
跟委員報告教育永遠不是不夠的因為我們都很希望說我們做任何的措施不管是素養教育或者是在學術網路上的一些措施其實都是希望降低小孩子被騙被引導但是你說有沒有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7143.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7168.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
有沒有效見仁見智但是有沒有夠不夠永遠不夠我們都是要保護我們的孩子我們希望說不管是詐騙或者是被錯誤引導這個部分都是我們非常要小心防範的所以為什麼我要強調為什麼對抖音的控管我這麼的堅持因為它有中資背景有資料審查的疑慮還有出現不當內容甚至對衍生法的衍生的抖音的挑戰就是我之前也在委員會質詢過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7170.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7192.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
衍生這種抖音挑戰對孩子他們的生命安全是造成很大的影響的這都是我們非常的憂心那再來我想兩位看一下這個圖片網路上現在有盛傳2025必看教大家怎麼下載大陸抖音還說可以幫助你快速融入這個操控的平台那其實我們的青少年就是這樣你教他不要下載他反而更好奇 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7193.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7214.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那現在他們也非常容易的可以下載到這個大陸版的抖音那如果跟國際版跟大陸版這兩個不同版本的抖音其實我們都無法有效的管理的話我們都無法去管理到它的內容對青少年的影響那我們是不是乾脆就下架嘛你就乾脆不要讓它用啊這個部分次長您的想法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7219.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7241.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這個網址的管理當然其實不在教育部我在強調如果不管什麼網址網站如果違反了資料我們會經過iWIN的機制如果是有違反兒少法的規定我們一定會希望他們能通知業者下架如果業者不下架我們製客室這邊也會讓他下架是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7244.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7268.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個部分我想因為時間有限我在這邊就不多跟你們討論但是會後我會找我們辦公室正會找你們來再討論一下這個部分段你們的想法態度跟大概大家怎麼做主秘你先請回我再問一下次長近日澳洲跟紐西蘭有傳出校園裡面供兒童遊戲使用中國遊戲殺它含有一級致癌物失眠 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7269.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7294.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
導致紐西蘭、澳洲有數百間的學校緊急檢查並且有120間的學校暫時是關閉進行全面的清消後續當然他們監管機構雖然表示說沒有檢測出來這種可吸入的纖維因此相關風險是有比較低的但是也沒有排除安全的疑慮這邊想請教次長有沒有瞭解目前台灣的校園有沒有使用到這種種類的遊戲傻 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7297.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7319.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
跟委員報告這個謝謝您關切我們教育部已經主動去要求所有的幼兒園的教材教具跟玩具是否目前是有的但是我們會持續提醒而且去要求宣導未來的採購任何的教具教材玩具都要合乎這個標準所以是有查到也是有學校是使用這個牌子這個種類的遊戲商國內目前沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7321.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7341.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
目前沒有那其實因為其實中國製的產品價格是比較低的很多學校在成本的考量上可能會使用但是這樣子作為教學使用作為遊戲使用對孩子的健康是有疑慮的時候我希望說我們教育部跟各縣市的這個教育處教育局也要討論說像這樣的我們如何來防範 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7342.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7355.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
避免說有安全疑慮的這個物品進入到校園影響到孩子的健康一定會的好 那就請我們這個一定要跟教育局處全力的來監督好 謝謝 想謝謝好 謝謝陳秀寶召委次長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7369.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7381.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我們在醫警委員質詢後會休息5分鐘接下來請林沛翔委員質詢好 謝謝主席有請劉次長請劉次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7385.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7410.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
喂 安桃市長早您過去在明星科大任內最因應為傲的就是推動所謂的半導體產學專班被視為私校生存的模範生但是今天您換個角色成為了主管機關面對現在失控的學工亂象甚至有外籍生因為公安意外而喪命像是黎明技術學院的案子請問一下您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7412.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7441.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
第一个我过去当校长的时候在推动在招生的时候我们都会要求不管是系所还有我们的实习的厂家一定第一个要签约第二个我们要确保学生的去实习的资格我们一定而且连他们的实习的条件我们都学校都应该而且要必须去了解是否合乎我们的安全的措施那 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7442.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7470.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
是不是有我们大学端比较少有学工的部分所以我们觉得我不同意是说有沦为学工的疑虑因为其实老实讲您的成功案例反而某个程度上变成教育部纵容的借口那您也曾经在明星科大上面说过说大学就是人才培育的场域强调说入学及就业 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7470.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7488.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
但是監察院報告現在指出大量後段私校畫虎不成反內犬勾結仲介讓外籍生悲哉來台每週公讀超過40個小時把學生變成廉價的非典型勞工其具體說明要如何修正實習課程的審核標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7492.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7514.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
跟委員報告事實上在來我教育部之前我自己當校長也被教育部所督導事實上我們教育部都有在實地去訪試去做教育品質查核那我們一再強調任何的學生你要有工作證才能出去實習跟打工不管是實習或打工總時數絕對不能超過我再強調絕對不能超過40 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7517.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7533.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
也不能做大夜班的加班然后如果有查到我们一定会列入专府所以你认为现在的审核标准不需要修正吗什么现在的实习课程的审核标准是不需要任何程度的修正您是这样认为的吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7533.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7557.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
现在如果已经实习之后除非有哪些偏颇的地方您是说不要超过40小时吗应该是这样讲是否能承诺未来所有的产学专班的实习合约必须笔照劳基法建立薪资直接入户尤其对外居生境界重建精手而且实习场域安全个别评估的强制机制呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7558.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7578.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
有 我們現在目前已經在有了我們也要求各大學在招生的時候不得藉由任何的仲介然後甚至在尋找實習場所的時候也不得任何的仲介然後在學生要出去實習之前學校不管是所縣校都要有實習核 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7579.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7593.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那個都有標準的模式而且委員您確確最關心的是不是是不是有核武勞動部所要的安全職安法職安安全我們都已經列入在裡面而且事後我們也會去如果學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7594.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7612.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
因為其實這些都是我希望不是通案因為我們知道我們缺工很厲害但是個案一直發生的時候就難免讓人家懷疑未來會不會是一種通案如果學校在發生學工剝削教育部除了扣減招生名額這種不痛不癢的處分之外有沒有什麼具體的退場機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7614.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7636.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
有的我們馬上列入專輔的專案輔導的學校那個是對任何一個學校包括私立學校是非常嚴重的事情因為一旦列入專輔就不能招外籍學生然後即便脫離了專輔學校還有好幾年不能招外籍學生對一般的私立學校是一個很嚴重的打擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7637.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7657.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
好 另外一個議題教育部雖然在2025年雖然更新了所謂的AI指引但大多數還是停留在理論上的宣導您是電機博士很清楚大型語言模型本質上是在機率預測而非知識庫目前教育部的AI素養教育很多只是在教學生怎麼下指令 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7658.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7683.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
老實講這只是在培養被AI取代的人請問教育部在114學年度的課維調或計畫中有沒有具體的預算科目是來教導學生來逆向解析演算法的邏輯是否從你的專業跟經驗出發要求各級學校的資安跟媒體課程必須加入所謂的辨識演算法錯誤跟對抗成癮機制的實作測驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7685.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7704.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
謝謝委員那我能回答部分因為高中以下的私底生以我們強調是AI的應用我們不要取代老師跟學生的教學現場那我們是希望是提供AI的一些工具讓老師教得好讓學生學得好這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7705.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7730.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那以举个例子我们最近公告了一个Right AI就是帮助高中老师的批改国文作文那你刚才讲逆向式的AI的coding那应该比较适合大学的一些研究的单位那我们在高教室这边还有技职师我们技职科师也有一些专案的这就是我们现在会遇到的状况因为现在AI工具太好用 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7731.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7754.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
很容易上手變成是說很多還沒有心晟還沒有完整的學生就直接使用AI工具去做出一些成品出來可是相對比較起來是剝奪他們的本身的知識跟創作權那我想請教請說明教育部要如何從教學生用工具轉型成為教學生駕馭演算法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7756.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7774.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
是 跟我們報告其實我們教育部是跟聯合國的教科文組織一樣13歲以下小孩子的心智還沒有成熟所以我們鼓勵的是用教育部所開發的專為教育用的深層式AI教育工具來幫助學生學習 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7776.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7803.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我們也強調我們也跟老師講如果老師要用其他的這種商業用的特別到高中要特別注意不會有學習替代的狀況所以我們目前也在辦有關於老師的這種AI怎麼融進去教學來增加學生的學習而不是讓學生的學習取代這一個方面的一個研習如同委員講的這一個事情非常重要所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7804.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7829.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
教育部從去年我們就開始去做這些事情那我們這個部分我們會持續去努力那有關於演算法教學法因為我們因為以這個演算法的部分我們有高中的多元選修的AI課程那因為這個部分技術比較難但是辨識的這個部分我們會從素養教育就是我們希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7829.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7849.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
不好意思你想要演算法就是我剛剛想要問的最後一個問題就是教育部如果在我們剛剛講到只是AI工具的演算法針對我們現在擁有的東西但是如果請問教育部在114年的課綱或教材裡面有沒有具體的章節是教導學生解析短影音平台的演算法 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7850.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7873.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
就是坦白说就是教孩子如何看穿平台是如何利用变动奖励机制来设计成瘾回路如果连最基本的演算法试读都没有我们如何期待孩子能够对抗演算法的成瘾陷阱一句话叫道高一尺魔高一丈但是道总是要做些事情不能一天到晚只是说我们做不到对吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7874.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7896.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
跟委員報告我們課綱的話是108年那時候就是審定的到114年其實在整個AI或是整個數位的發展已經有很大的發展我們會透過教學指引引導老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7897.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7904.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
而在教学上也可以融入然后把演算法程式设计人工智慧的概念能够带入教学 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7905.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
7935.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
老实说我蛮担心的,因为现在的世界,重点不是你看到什么,而是你如何去试读,不管是我们现在看到的媒体试读,还是未来的写习法试读,也算法试读,如果这一块教育部没有放在心上的话,未来我们的学子很容易会被牵着走,我相信你们会跟我讲,我们当然有,但是我刚刚讲过那句话,道高一尺,魔高一丈,尤其是现在13岁的小孩,基本上来讲,他对于AI的抵抗力是越来越弱, |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
7935.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
7956.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
对APP各方面的抵抗力是不是越来越弱我希望教育部能够把不只是单纯的媒体试读或者演算法试读很多不同的东西很多都不同的东西现在在资讯爆炸的年代如何去教孩子第一时间去试读是不带bias不带偏见的去试读这点会是教育部未来在怎么样教育小朋友的时候很重要的一块 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
7957.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
7975.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
謝謝委員的指教事實上我們從過去到現在我們都一直在辦理我們的資訊科技教師在職進修第二專長你不是教資訊的你過來上一些學分班這個課程裡面包含演算法程式設計跟人工智慧從106年就開始做 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
7977.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8000.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
到113年已经办了46班一共有969人那我们会持续去办理那我们也会持续的跟进更新我们的课程的内容就是委员讲的道高于尺 魔高于丈科技一直在进步我们会把相当科技一直在希望老师在培育因为老师是教学现场指导引学生的最主要的养 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8000.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8027.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我们今天是在讨论说有关这个演算法试读之类的事情而且讨论这些议题因为现在老师越来越难找老师讲你们大家都知道今天我们不是讨论这个议题但是如果说老师越来越难找的时候那未来AI的使用期率越来越高那我只能说请求教育部在这边好好讨论好好研讨说如何在教材上面在课程上面在内容上面做出做出长足的制度不然的话 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8028.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8051.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
對於未來的學子或對於下一個世代AI不見得是完全是幫助是一體兩面刃所以如何在這邊教導他們或是引導他們在下一個世代能夠好好做事是很重要的一塊謝謝林佩祥委員質詢 觀眾請回座接下來請林一錦委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8059.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8065.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
謝主席有請教育部劉次長跟抒發部胡竹蜜請劉次長 胡竹蜜 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8072.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8100.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
台灣是民主國家那每位公民只要不要傷害別人理所當然他要獲得最大限度的自由那政府也無權干涉可是這並不等同於我們眼睜睜的看著下一代暴露在危險的情境中然後毫無作為也就是說我們並不會讓民眾即將要把巨款匯給詐騙集團的時候我們還在旁邊說風涼的話說匯款是民眾的自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8101.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8128.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
好 那國際特赦組織對這個TikTok發布的兩份報告看起來毛骨悚然第一份報告是說TikTok為了吸引住使用者透過演算法不斷地做出一些毫無把關的推薦個人化的推薦無論內容有多麼的離經叛道它都會直接透過手機的螢幕推送到我們孩子的面前 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8129.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8157.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那在國際特殊組織這個研究中它有顯現出如果一個孩子他好奇自己的心理狀態又或者他對身心這個健康問題有興趣那TikTok它就會灌輸許多有害的資訊給他例如說他會鼓勵自殘或者自殺的影片換句話說TikTok已經不是不只是網路成癮的問題它是對我們下一代赤裸裸的惡意 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8158.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8159.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那我 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8160.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8189.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我要跟次長討論是說那目前我們在教育現場你是否會發現有相關的這種危害的事件那目前我們根據這個兒少權法第四六條或者是第四六條它其實有防止兒少就是接觸有害身心發展網路內容的規範那同一條就是在兒少權法裡面的第94條它也有對網路平台有科有罰則 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8190.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8216.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那要討論就是說那教育部如何要精進現有的措施再進一步落實我們兒少全法第46條規定的精神那我們是不是也同時要在教育家庭裡面家庭教育裡面去強調這個教育網路當內容的影響市長謝謝委員持續關心這件事情我們也很真正關心不過再強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8217.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8230.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
在以Tunnel為主的我們是不會裝這個就是因為在Tunnel是因為我們的資通安全法我們不能裝置大陸製的軟硬 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8231.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8255.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
包括抖音跟小紅書是這是因為是這樣那至於個人載具個人手機手機手的ADSL那個第一個他要裝什麼所以我們有一個叫做數位工具包我們也有一些數位學習給家長的指引我們都是希望家長能在家庭裡面能設法的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8256.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8283.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
装置一些过滤的机制三大业者也都有这个服务如果他愿意去装的话我们都一起服务的那到委员也关键家庭教育我们终身是我们也做了很多的家庭教育的一些课程跟宣导以及活动那我们这个媒体宿养跟网路数位宿养等相当课程都已经在那里面 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8284.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8313.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
说实在已经很多了但是听不听是一回事因为人身自由您刚才提到人身自由但是我们教育就是永远不够我们会持续推动我们会加强推动刚才也讲了有关于一些网路的祷告仪指摸告仪上我们只要收集到任何的新的跟有害跟您写的有关于就是儿少有关有任何的关系不单单是被动或主动的我们知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8313.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8336.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
我們都會經過iWIN的機制那iWIN如果認為這是有用的話會通知業者下架如果不下架我們教育部會自動下架而且是只在學術網路裡面下架所以因為我們教育部主管的只是在學術網路跟教學現場擁有的那家庭的這部分我們還是持續跟家長做溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8337.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8358.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我們也跟我們的家長團體持續的對話希望人都了解多利用我們的數位工具包當然委員會說我們數位工具包夠不夠我們會持續充實會加強好 因為其實TikTok有一個另外一個問題它這個問題是比其他的社群平台更嚴重許多就是因為它來自獨裁的中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8360.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8375.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那中國這個國家我想是無法被完全信任因為他這個政府他可以肢一妄為去侵害人民的權益所以他透過這個TikTok那台灣的孩子他就是有會有大量的個人資訊被 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8376.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8392.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
中國這個國家所掌握那我們會有大量的這個兒少的隱私喔暴露在中國那國際特色組織又有一個報告顯示說TikTok它經營的這個是一個高度剝削的商業模式那它 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8393.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8418.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
他其實不僅大量在收集用戶的在平台上的個人數據那他某些地區甚至在就連用戶在現實生活中的資訊也會被收集所以國際特色組織他形容說陷入TikTok的這個監視網路當中那會給青少年帶來很多隱私權遭曝光的恐懼感 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8419.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8441.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那所以再來就要請教這個速發部胡竹蜜而少乃至於全體國人他這個個人資訊瀑布在這個中國的掌控之中會有怎麼樣的風險那速發部又有怎麼樣的應變策略因為監察院他的報告有指出說像美國 歐盟或英國他們都有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8442.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8466.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
法令像說美國還有保護美國人免受外國對手應用程式的侵害法像歐盟有數位服務法英國有線上安全法等的立法我們台灣會不會朝立法的管制模式去應對胡竹蜜謝謝委員的質詢有關個資外洩的部分過去其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8467.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8483.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
各自外線就會衍生相關的詐騙的東西就會進來所以如果小朋友資料也都在外面暴露的話事實上增加很多的受騙的危險所以這個部分其實我們各自法已經有相關的規範或者是我們那個打詐的相關的條例已經針對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8484.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8514.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
不當的廣告事實上也要求這些Meta這些來下架這樣子是有相關的來處理啦所以妳說就是透過個資法對 目前個資法已經有在針對這些業者他如果讓我們的資料外洩的話那這些業者就要負擔起一定的責任這樣子這是針對平台的部分那如果是平台的部分他如果有一些詐騙的廣告等等他事實上也要在限期內要下架不然他也會有相關的責任要負擔這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8515.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8542.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那想再來再跟胡祖密討論的是說像根據這個有一個各機關對危害國家自動安全產品限制使用原則還有行政院秘書長在2020年他的發函我們公務用的這個自通產品包括軟體硬體我們都不能使用中國的品牌那這些行政規則都已經有要求行政院所屬全國的各公務機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8544.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8554.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
照理立法院也要比照辦理啊那請教一下立法委員利用TikTok進行公務的宣傳那影響民眾視聽這算不算違反這個這項規定啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8557.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8577.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
先跟委员报告一下就是抖音跟TikTok我们目前是切割处理抖音就很明确的就是录制的所以一定是不能使用所以我们已经也有发函立法院在公务上面一定不能来运用这个抖音这样子的一个APP那至于TikTok我们刚才另外在讨论因为打仗的条例我们有邀请他来 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8579.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8603.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
設立法律代表人不過這個東西正在討論當中不過非常明確的抖音是所有的公務部門都不可以來使用這個抖音的那立法院這個部分委員本身或者是行政人員當然行政人員一定是公務員他的公務員的這個資格一定不能來使用這些那至於委員本身可能他就是公職人員有另外的進行公務宣傳這個可能就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8604.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8628.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
因為另外中國就是符合這個中國這個國家是符合我們反滲透法第二條規定就是敵外境外敵對勢力那立委可以考察國防機密那也可以參與機密預算所以他可以獲取很多國家各式各樣的資訊所以結果手機裡安裝資安 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8630.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8641.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
有問題的中國軟體那這難道不是很荒謬的資安破口嗎那所以針對這樣的資安破口我們未來要怎麼樣的管制對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8642.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8663.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
当然如果依照我们危害国家自动安全的相关的规定的话那如果他有安装使用的话那一定安装抖音对安装使用抖音的话就会受到相关治安法的规定那如果有一些情节的状况的话就可以惩戒或惩处这样子这个是治安法的规定对 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8665.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8681.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
時間的關係我想再透過三十秒來跟那個次長討論一下AI教育因為現在AI教育就越來越發達那教育部當然有針對中小學制定一些生成式人工智慧注意事項那當然也有針對一些家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8682.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8703.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
有一些所謂的這個數位學習知能的指引對中小學的教學有一些知能那剛剛也有推出所謂中小學這個數位教學指引的3.0版不過我覺得除了這些以外我覺得我們還是要回過頭來解釋一下老師家長跟學生有沒有跟得上AI的腳步 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8704.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8734.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那根據黃坤惠教育基金會他調查8月到10月間針對現職的國小、國中、高中老師進行AI素養調查那這個3600份的回收的調查問卷結果顯示大部分的老師他覺得自己對於AI基礎跟應用或AI的倫理或AI的人本思維他覺得他是具有素養的可是在AI的這個教學法或AI的專業發展他覺得這兩項他覺得還有所不及 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8735.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8755.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
另外我們也發現說年資越長的老師們自認具備AI的素養不及之前的老師我想教育部針對教師的AI素養有在舉辦很多的研習課程有一些基礎的培訓也都已經有做一些很完整的 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8757.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8782.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
進階的課程也在持續推動所以我想我們另外也有看到本席也有在看到教育部在明年的預算書也有持續要辦理AI應用我在教學跟學習那又升級這個教育雲一站式的服務要開發這個在地化的教育用可信賴的這個所謂的大型人工智慧對話引擎就是所謂的Tide模型 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8783.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8803.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我要請教的是說我們教育用的這個態度現在開發的進度不曉得到哪裡那還有一種就是我們行政減量喊了那麼久那身於這個理工背景的你你是不是有更多的想像就是說用AI技術怎麼樣輔助在行政減量上簡單回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8803.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
8823.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
好,您問的問題是非常深奧,但是也是切實的。有關於老師AI的資能,我們事實上A1、A2已經100%完成,現在所謂的A3的真能已經在10%,每年的10%。另外,未來也會推廣到我們所謂的B3選修課程, |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
8825.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
8840.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
如果哪些老師是針對深層式AI融入教學的工作坊如果特定的老師或哪些老師需要我們會加強去學習那另外剛剛您講過針對所謂的某一些階段的老師或者是比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
8841.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
8860.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我不能說他年長就是比較通常這是調查報告出來的年資較深的會比年資較淺的對AI這個東西比較不熟悉那我也算比較資深但是我們還有一個機制叫做手把手手把手機制我們會推薦那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
8861.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
8881.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
對AI教學有經驗的老師或大學的教授會入校去協助只要有退休需求透過各式各樣的管道縣市政府也好我們各地方有DOC我們有數位學習中心等等我們都會願意協助特定的老師在這方面好 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
8884.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
8907.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
AI态德上面我们已经跨部会我刚刚已经讲过举个例子我们最近有推一个WriteAI就是基于这个Education态德系统帮助我们高中老师而且这个还是民间的机构来捐赠的帮助高中老师去改国文的作文这是一个多么困难 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
8908.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
8934.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
兼生的問題 聽他們說如果用人工改一個作文大概要花個十到十五分鐘那經過這個可以縮短到幾分鐘之內而且這也可以應用到學生自己自學日後啦那也就是說我們教育部的立場是我們一定要教老師我們不是要取代老師我在強調取代老師也不要取代學生學習這一塊當然當然我們是要利用AI去協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
8934.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
8959.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
老師如何教得好 教得滿我們也是希望學生能藉由AI不要沉溺在AI 不要over build AI而是利用AI如何去讓他們學的最大的幫手像我們的酷英網我們的學生利用即在你在偏鄉利用酷英網我們根據我們的調查如果你經過酷英網你只要4個小時以上它進步是15%以上那行政減量呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
8960.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
8989.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
行政減量很像我們現在我們也在推動那個Try AITry AI我們那個我們也是在學習說如何比如說寫公文比如說寫什麼樣的文字我們要教導他們所有行政我們教育部也是開始做起如果去應用他們應用AI得到最大的幫忙對我們是要希望能減少教學第一線的老師的行政減量我們朝這個方向去走好謝謝次長謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
8990.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
8993.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
谢谢林经委员质询官员请回座我们现在休息五分钟 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9013.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9030.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
這就是我們知道的,就是這個藝術,這個藝術,這就是我們知道的,就是這個藝術, |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9040.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9045.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
不要到時候就說完再三分鐘吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9075.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9077.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
這張圖是新的一張圖。這張圖是新的一張圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9090.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9111.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那時候我們在學校的時候,我年紀很大,也有兩個學校,不知道什麼,我也走在那裡。那個學校不太有學術,那個學校是自己來學的。那時候我們不能自己接受,不用跟小朋友講話。 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9114.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9122.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
對,然後再補貨。對,然後再補貨。對,然後再補貨。對,然後再補貨。對,然後再補貨。 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9141.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9142.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
臺北市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9298.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9322.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我們繼續開會 接下來請伍麗華委員質詢謝謝主席因為今天的內容其實好像教育部 抒發部衛福部其實都有牽涉到我想就先一起出來好了謝謝衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9324.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9341.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
有速發部有國家通訊傳播委員會還有網際網路傳播辦公室那是還有教育部對都可以都一起來都到嗎那就請有次長請胡主秘請黃主秘還有檢認視察李嘉玲都到 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9347.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9363.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
好 謝謝主席因為今天委員會安排的主題是如何防範不當的短影音跟社群平台的兒少內容那希望怎麼來加強數位跟媒體的素養那我這邊有看到一個中研院它的一個針對2023年資料庫所做的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9366.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9389.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那其中呢就是來使用這個TikTok的比例18歲以下國小4乘3國中5乘7高中5乘那其實這個是最保守的調查統計例如像家福的話國中是7乘所以我們在這個地方就可以看到其實孩子們會去使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9391.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9417.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這個影音媒體其實並不意外因為孩子 青少年他就會基於社交因素為了要交朋友為了要跟上流行的話題所以他會去下載使用那麼在立法院的法治局其實多年來也一直很關心這樣的一個議題像是他引用英國非營利組織反數位仇恨中心的一個調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9418.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9439.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
這個TikTok每2.6分鐘推送自殺內容每8分鐘推送飲食失調內容每39秒推薦負面身心健康影片所以這樣的一個狀況像2022年的數據他說平均每天TikTok使用107分鐘遠遠是YouTube的兩倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9443.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9461.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那到現在2025年我想這個數據是更驚人所以我們其實看到很多手法我舉個例子像我們是原住民那南島語族到底起源中國福建還是起源南島那它可以透過這個TikTok舉個例子毛利人來自中國嗎這個對年輕人來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9463.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9485.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
很吸引他宇宙生命的起源他是要追尋自我的時候這一些話題都很吸引他他就跳進去看啦又或者是說像現在很流行就是用AI來配音你要什麼歌他都生給你假人 假曲 假音他就會去製造一些沒人沒有說過的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9486.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9509.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
像我們的年輕人假設很崇拜林木一郎那他就冒用林木一郎沒有說過的話去吸引你又或者說像之前這個總統大家就是三人成虎就說叫老人家去爬那每個人就會說我們賴總統叫老人家去爬屋頂然後就仇恨自己的國家元首 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9509.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9531.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
又或者是說像現在的孩子看多了因此他開始喜歡用支那語用支語像是很多的語言視頻他就不講影片了公車他就講成公交車諸如此類我們的土豆其實是他們的馬鈴薯所以搞得我們也不知道他到底在講什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9532.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9560.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那他的作文呢全篇也覺得這是流行他也覺得很酷很炫那很多這個認知的部分就是已經學生他們都問他要不要打仗他們都喜歡統一就不戰自敗也都不用打仗了用這種溫水煮的方式甚至是用網紅他看起來是知識頻道其實他在裡面偷渡了很多意識形態的東西那又或者是說他們這個整個產業鏈呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9562.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9576.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
其實也都是一條龍流水線的方式從哪裡出來它有一個中央廚房然後有一個臉書的內容農場然後轉到哪裡特定媒體渲染之後平面媒體等等就這樣擴散開來用這種反串嫁禍不爭美舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9581.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9604.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
甚至自相AI的影片其实大家也都看到就是比过去的假讯息这种反串嫁祸其实还要发挥的淋漓尽致那回到我们教育我们在12年国教课刚有看到资讯教育这里头呢资讯科技的使用态度也强调习惯态度还有资讯的伦理等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9605.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9631.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
但是我們翻遍所有的版本所有的教科書發現只有國中的公民他有教媒體試讀然後我們的國小翻遍綜合健康發現根本沒有相關的內容所以我們最需要預防的應該是我們的國小 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9632.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9649.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
結果我們發現漏接那這個部分是學生所以我想先請教一下我們的次長教育部次長就是我們已經進入到一個後真相時代就是我們知道哎呀也有真也有假那我乾脆就全部都不相信好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9650.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9678.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那這個部分現在媒體試讀它其實會變成是很重要的一個素養但是我們的課本所教的內容已經不敷所需或甚至根本沒有所以請教一下市長你是不是認同像我們的國小中高年級甚至是從低年級開始我們是不是應該要重新去檢視我們這些綜合健康等等領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9679.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9689.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那這些是不是應該要有教授如何辨識這些媒體呀或者是對這些身心健康有害的內容需不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9691.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9712.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
当然需要那有做吗有现在我们在12年国民教育的课纲里面的综合活动领域在国小第三学期阶段的时候就纳入了所谓的那个媒体试读的学习的内容那有相当多有各式媒体资源的分析判读 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9713.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9739.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
要老師帶領然後還有媒體對平常生活的影響然後還有各式各樣的解決資源那不管是康軒或者是南一或者是漢林他們都有相對的一些課程我們事後會再把一些說明給委員看是都有啦那這些內容老師他是怎麼樣的進行教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9740.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9767.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我們在 我剛才有講過就是說我們現在所有的中小學老師我們都有給他們的AI或者數位媒體的課程那是進修對 進修 在職進修都已經說 已經百分之百了那相信所有老師都應該知道怎麼去運用它利用融入式的教學引導這些學生知道這些事情但是如果 還有我剛才講的如果還有更進一步的需求如果要針對AI的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9767.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9780.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我們資格司也會推動所謂的對深層式AI如何在教學上如何使用那請教一下次長其實你們應該也要去做一個調查統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9782.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9809.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
因为很多的老师他可能自己本身他这个媒体试读或者是AI辨识的能力其实也是很差为什么呢因为我们也可以听到很多人也很容易受诈骗很多人他也很容易意识形态被渗透因为我们从群组当中从大家转发的内容我们都可以很了解这个情形非常的严重 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9810.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9831.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那我們到底怎麼辦我們來看一下我們的師培課程像我們的中等師培課程它有一門叫閱讀暨資訊素養教育就兩學分而且是選修那來看小學的師培一樣有閱讀暨資訊素養教育而且也是兩學分也是選修那次長您覺得這樣子夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9834.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9861.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
事实上我们教育部也看到这一点部长也要求一定要加强那已经以1130年度我们在教育专业课程里面就有开设媒体素养的教育现在已经有相关的课程已经有47校288个系所开设了915个课程现在已经有15700多个的师资生那市长 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9863.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9887.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我其實只是要提醒就是希望教育部可以重視那麼要定期的去做調查去做一個檢視然後做政策的檢討然後要求我們的課綱也好課程內容也好或者是進修內容也好我希望這個部分其實今天委員會排這個主題蠻重要的因為我們正在深受其害 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9888.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
9905.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
所以我是希望說我們的老師要跟得上而且要比學生有更強的識讀辨別的能力我們面對這個TikTok對世界的影響它配合手機直視然後呢 簡短一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
9906.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
9921.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
連我們的YouTube也改了呢它也在學抖音變直視一分鐘呢那我們的IG的reels也是都在跟著TikTok在改變那這個當中我覺得學校很可怕因為學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
9922.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
9937.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
他只有什麼呢output在學看這些一分鐘重點在要的東西但是他完全沒有input他沒有足夠的能力去輸出他影響我們的學校教育坐不住沒辦法好好上課因為他只能忍受一分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
9938.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
9955.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
他也沒有辦法處理大量的訊息課本的這些內容手機的這些知識內容他沒有辦法快速的處理所以這個影響到我們未來的教育所以我是希望說這個部分希望能夠有這樣的一個回應讓我們知道而且可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
9956.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
9981.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
調查的速度要很快那我在這個地方更擔心的是安全的部分因為我們看到太多的影音軟體它為了追求流行它要模仿 它要拍 它要上傳結果呢 危害到兒少的一個安全像抱頭的啊 敲門快寶或者是冷凍後加熱等等所以在這個地方請教一下因為我們的兒少福法第46條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
9983.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10001.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
有提到說任何人不得與網路散佈傳送有害兒童及少年身心健康的內容也提到46條這個是由通訊傳播主管機關來去造極各目的事業主管機關所以我們國內除了兒少全法 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10002.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10021.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我們對青少年短影音好像也沒什麼其他的具體的管制措施所以這個部分我看到公共政策平台要求強化抖音資通管理全民數位媒體的有60幾個提案表示名氣可用所以我不太曉得說NCC也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10022.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10047.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
速發部 衛福部 教育部像有的國家他們其實是像印度2020年起全面禁止所有人民使用TikTok還有多項的中國App美國猶他州也有家長什麼宵禁 極點使用禁止演算法等等很多的國家都有我是在想說我們的國家有沒有在著手這一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10050.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10068.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
跟委員報告在資安的部分的話可能要請那個消費部這邊來跟因為資安的問題其實涉及到所有的平台其實都有同樣的問題就資安的部分那以及各自的部分可能涉及到各個委會至少兒少法說是由通訊傳播主管機關召集各目的事業主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10069.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10088.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
因為那個依照46條的規定的話目前我們也召集相關機關我們成立了iWIN這樣的一個第三方的機構來幫我們推動在兒少法46條第一項裡面的七大任務其中有一部分委員剛才提到的那畫面如果說假設它是一種仇恨性的或者是一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10090.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10109.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
一種自殺性毀滅性的這些內容的話目前我們安慰已經有召集所有相關的這些多方利害關係人我們有個歷史框架透過這個歷史框架我們的聯絡剛才在報告裡面也有提到我們跟四大平台包含像YouTube |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10110.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10119.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
IG Tiktok這些總共四大平台我們都有一個綠色管道通過我們歷史框架如果假設它的內容是違反我們的歷史框架的那我們會通知我們希望能夠早日感受到演算法時間控管平台責任家長協作監督機制我們可以希望儘快感受到我們現在是感受不到很緊張 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10135.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10158.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那最後一個就是可能這是速發部就是現在有一個困擾就是在遊戲裡面它會有廣告然後你也無法跳過因為它就是遊戲裡面的廣告不是遊戲之外的廣告因為它逼你看完之後這些新三色的東西就可以復活就可以抽獎就可以得到bonus這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10159.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10188.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那因為遊戲內容復活我看今天的夜報也有就是遊戲軟體分級管理辦法有但是對於這種管不到遊戲裡面的廣告那這個部分就形成法律的一個真空所以我們是希望說遊戲軟體分級管理辦法因為它會管到軟體的內容也會管到軟體的廣告但是管不到遊戲裡面的廣告所以這個部分是不是會納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10190.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10211.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
报告委员游戏软体里面的广告我们相信还是可以用这个儿少权法来做处理只要他有违反儿少的管制的措施的话那边是那边可是你的是管理办法对我们的游戏管理办法母法也是在儿少权法那您会配合修进去纳入吗在我们的办法里面吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10212.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10235.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
對啊OK 這個可以把它你不能說母法有你辦法就不要OK 我們再來演繹因為這個目前是漏接的好嗎好那希望就是兩週內可以給我一個說明好 我們回去演繹OK 好 謝謝謝謝主席好 謝謝謝謝吳立華委員質詢官員請回座接下來請羅廷偉委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10245.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10252.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
謝主席 有請次長請劉次長好 次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10253.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10279.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我們今天在討論這個影音對這個孩子的影響但教育部的今日我們看到報告裡面有很多是引用國外的研究對吧但是在台灣我認為我們自己的孩子實際的使用狀況是什麼還有影響又是什麼目前的資料我覺得相對的不夠清楚我就提出幾個數據大家一起來探討BBC中文 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10281.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10295.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
有講出這份報導在台灣小紅書的活躍用戶大概300萬但是IG他擁有的這個使用國高中以下的用戶有89%有在使用IG82%使用FB |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10301.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10326.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
小红书相对在国高中的使用用户大概在30%左右所以我要说的是台湾的孩子到底怎么用短影音怎么去受到这些内容影响的状况使用多久的短影音的内容去浏览甚至这些影响会造成什么样的一个变化目前看起来我觉得国内的资料相对不足也不够系统化 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10328.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10343.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
那我也要問一下你看喔我們用這個國外的資料研究來推估孩子台灣的孩子的狀況我覺得有一定的差距為什麼作息的時間不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10345.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10357.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
因為我們的課程就不一樣嘛孩子在學校待的時間就不一樣嘛對不對我們是出了名的在亞洲地區我們出了名的是小朋友學習時間太長了好 課後的補習 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10359.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10387.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
基本上小朋友都要課後補習還有回家功課的模式也不一樣家庭陪伴的型態居住的環境跟國外都差的蠻多的所以國內的實證資料我覺得非常關鍵那想請問一下教育部目前有沒有做過完整的全國調查來掌握台灣學生目前對於整個短影音影片的使用狀況各位報告沒有那我請國教院補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10388.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10411.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
各位委員報告目前我們沒有針對有關短影音的部分來做相關的研究所以我們市長我剛剛講了說為什麼要用還有實際的差別你覺得重不重要重要重要我們要不要調查應該那您覺得多久可以調查完一年內希望可以再快一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10413.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10433.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
加油好不好因為你拖了一年的時候不要說你拖啦你執行了一年以後我們才知道狀況怎麼去下這個藥來對症下藥嘛對不對那就晚了一年了對於孩子的這個媒體識讀很重要你知不知道有一群民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10435.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10454.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
國人是非常希望恢復禮義廉恥的你知不知道我知道那你知不知道現在21世紀AI世代媒體嗜讀就是很重要的品德教育之一對吧是的也是屬於為什麼他們想要著重於禮義廉恥就是希望品德教育嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10455.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10477.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那現在的AI世代現在的媒體世獨就是把這個部分做好品德教育就會做得好所以我認為半年可不可以剛剛我說的數據資料調查包委我認為這一個是全面性的研究跟調查半年可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10478.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10499.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
有點趕但是我再問你一次你覺得這個數據重不重要重要但是半年可以初步的報告這樣就好了因為我知道你不敢隨便答應半年你怕做不到但是你知道很重要我們半年會給你初步的調查至少你要有初步執行然後一年把它完整的調查出來可不可以可以我覺得了解台灣的孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10500.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10529.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
才能夠對症下藥不然真的我們再拿到這個整個都是國外的研究不是說你們不認真我認為有一定的差距好不好國小國中高中各個年齡層大學他的短影音的使用量還有每天看什麼平台對不對剛剛我講的89在IG82%在FB小紅書才主要是30%當然他沒有提到TikTok但是我認為TikTok也蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10529.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10558.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
有多多 我舉一個案例就好了我們在國小前幾年吧當你走進去 你對著小朋友經過他旁邊喔 你說愛你孤身走暗巷他馬上會回一句愛你不畏的模樣當你跟他走過去 你會說這是為什麼就是短影音他們流行的歌曲嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10559.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10577.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
你就知道他們在流行什麼嘛所以他只是一首歌但是他的傳播力我想最近大家都知道嘛那個王世堅委員匆匆忙忙游刃有餘嘛也是非常非常的爆紅但是我要再跟您說明的一件事情今天也有很多委員跟你在講 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10578.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10602.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
不是我們要幫Ttalk講話小紅書講話我們沒有要幫他們講話而是我們要知道整個使用用戶到底他的習慣在哪裡就講一個最白的就好了今天你是一個網紅你在Ttalk拍的影片你會不會希望直接也搬到FB直接就上架會嗎會不會直接就在IG就上架 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10604.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10621.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
會嘛因為他好不容易拍出這個影片了嘛他在TikTok看到有流量他會不會直接希望在FB也有流量會嘛所以不是只是封TikTok就好了今天如果你把它封了我們的媒體識讀能夠救上來我一定支持但是我們發現就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10621.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10636.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
所有的這些直播主也好網紅也好他一定會將所謂的短影片直接搬家在不同的平台上架所以會影響到我們的孩子的絕對是影片的內容而不是單一平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10638.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10667.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
所以我們希望他能夠了解那再來我要跟你講就是說更重要的是孩子滑多久滑完之後有什麼改變我們要去了解因為在教育現場直接就可以看到怎麼說小朋友滑很久上課注意力一定會下降睡眠不足情緒起伏比較大模仿不良行為所以這些甚至有容貌焦慮影響到學習的一個生態教育部有沒有對這些現象做過調查追蹤 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10668.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10682.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我認為應該都是沒有的啦所以我希望一定要做我們有看到教育部有委託陽明教大在112年台灣中小學學生網路使用的行為調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10684.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10697.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這份資料有啊這份資料很重要啊大家主要是中小學生啊而且觀察的是整體網路使用狀況並不是專門針對短影片啊也沒有看到高中跟大學所以有做有潛力只是不夠紮實啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10699.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10728.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
短影片現在的影響力是最高的變化最快的最推進學生的日常媒介所以為什麼需要更精準數據所以今天你承諾你一定會做是嗎好我想這個東西只有補齊了不管是對我們家長教育現場甚至教育部未來的一些政策衛福部也好抒發部也好我覺得有一個很重要的一個政策能夠指引所以我希望加油好嗎好的謝謝第二個我要說的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10729.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10757.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
你們在書面報告有提供到現在有這個數位工具包的成效我們看到很多都是校園端能夠做的防護措施包括封鎖不當的平台平板的管理校園過濾網路的過濾以及提供家長的守護兒少的數位工具包這都是校園端可以做的這我真的要講別再幫學校老師增加工作了 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10757.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10767.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那老師真的很辛苦啊老闆就是拜託你相關的這些補貼給他們多一點但是有一個實質的問題我們不能忽視啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10768.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
10792.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
小朋友使用短影音最大宗的時間九成以上都在校園外放學假日睡前補習的路上等校車的路上這些都是教育不管不到的啊所以真正累積的一個影響最後回到了影響到學校我要幫學校講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
10794.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
10816.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
所以教育部要怎麼樣跨部位再來想辦法努力學校外的事情處理校外的風險教育部在今年5月14召開記者會宣布四大方案之一就是一個家長兒少的工具包啊但是你們那個時候我要問當時說到9月啊9月後還有嗎還有還有到現在都有對 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
10817.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
10840.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
一直都會有一直都會有好那問題我們繼續講現在過了大約半年時間工具包相關的懶人包啊操作手冊教學影片我只能說很認真準備但是沒有人要看所以早上已經有人說了嘛你們這個實際的瀏覽數實際的下載量你們有相關的數據嗎下載量有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
10842.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
10867.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我們現在瀏覽量目前六月到現在有一萬五千人瀏覽六月到現在一萬五早上不是有委員說三百多那個是YouTube的影片而且會即時更新所以他在那一個影片會有六...我要講的是說還是很少啦有Google的有iOS的有Microsoft的但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
10868.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
10884.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
整個看到素材整理的很用心但是怎麼樣能夠推廣出去你配合四大業者三大業者那你覺得他真的會落實嗎有沒有誘因這些畢竟是他們是商業模式啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
10886.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
10910.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
難道你有辦法告訴他每一個在修理手機買手機的都會主動推銷要下載我們的工具包嗎有沒有誘因我認為沒有誘因沒有誘因你要怎麼樣讓他們能夠在推廣這個工具包更落實剛剛我們在講的活躍用戶小紅書30%你知道FB的下載量是多少嗎你知道IG多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
10916.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
10938.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
一定很少為什麼因為手機一買直接就在裡面了啦它是內建程式我們的工具包有辦法做到內建嗎不可能嘛但是有沒有辦法再跟業者好好的溝通增加誘因讓業者在第一線的這些工作人員願意推廣羊毛豬在羊身上啊我們持續溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
10940.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
10955.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
這雖然不是你單一的責任但是我們講很現實的你要利用三大業者這樣的方向本席一定認同但是你要怎麼用到淋漓盡致不是我有用了結果沒有推廣出去不是你的問題不是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
10955.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
10980.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
你們整理這麼好的素材還做了懶人包沒有人要下載有什麼用呢真正能夠幫助這些工具包我覺得希望能夠更加的落實不是透過iWIN而已iWIN很好但是iWIN是被動接受檢舉嘛能不能主動出擊這個部分我希望能夠再加強推動半年了目前為止我認為這樣的使用數據跟效果真的有待加強而且弱勢家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
10982.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11006.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
他們對於這樣子的一個使用能力去看到懶人包甚至他覺得用到一半他就不會想去用了啊透過業者幫忙主動教學嗎我覺得很難啊所以我要講的是這樣的做法有了初步的方向但是怎麼落實很重要請你加油好 惠德謝謝羅廷維委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請王逸川委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11011.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11022.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
執行時間4分鐘好 謝謝主席 我們請教育部次長請劉次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11027.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11053.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
好 次長我知道教育部很努力啊這個在學校裡頭啊想辦法禁掉抖音小紅書這害死台灣孩子的東西啊你們做得不錯這個方向是對的要繼續加油謝謝委員這些小紅書叫中國的抖音啊不管叫抖音叫TikTok啦這都害死台灣孩子啦這你們一定要顧住第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11054.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11081.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
現在市長有沒有把握現在高中 國中 國小在校園裡面沒有人在看抖音我只能保證說我們的學術網路裡面沒有抖音跟小紅書那學生如果中間有機會用到手機他有沒有機會在學校裡頭拿抖音給同學看是有可能的是有可能要不要禁掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11083.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11085.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
教育部不是進這個的主管機關機進不進得掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11089.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11115.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
跟委員報告就是如果是校園裡面的手機學生要使用手機是學習的用途所以如果不是學習的用途就是學校裡面是不會讓學生使用手機的學習的用途可不可以學習抖音跟委員報告這個部分應該是說這一些應該我們都有在宣導所以這個應該都是我們是會禁止的學校校園裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11118.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11137.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
這個投螢幕出來 電視裡頭出來會不會有抖音的影片應該不會因為如果他用的是學術網路是看的好 那手機有機會手機如果他連的是我們的學術網路是沒有機會的那如果連的是自己的現在孩子都吃到飽了那什麼人家學校網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11138.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11159.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
對啊 如果學生用抖音的方式教的作業如果要老師批閱的話 一樣他還是沒有辦法用因為學校的本身沒有這個機制那學校的老師認不認為用抖音升小學生是不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11160.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11184.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我們在教在我們的學士老師的在職技修上面我們都一再的一再的宣導而且是希望他們不要不要用再強調如果在校內使用抖音學術網路上是絕對學校老師有沒有反彈到目前我們還沒有收到任何的反彈確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11189.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11191.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
所以學校老師也不會反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11193.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11221.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這個校園的學術網路上課的時候不用抖音對吧我當老師的時候我也不希望你當老師你是大學老師不一樣啊我現在講的是國中小老師啦我們的在老師的教學在在媒體素養的培訓上面我們都要求因為老師很重要這個次長你在學校教書教學生教報告教他教PDF他就要教PDF教他教我的他就要教我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11222.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11248.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
對吧格式不對你就不會收嘛所以中小學的老師啊如果叫學生交作業交作業喔有一種作業叫比如暑假作業拍跟父母出去玩的影音圖文小朋友交抖音來如果學校老師說交抖音我不收交TikTok我不收他就回去跟家長講說我們老師說不可以我們老師只收什麼的這個比較快啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11250.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11278.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
是的 没错吧是的 在技术上面如果老师可以改作业是在学校环境里面那应该跟委员报告一样我们的学术网络上面并没有抖音这个APP所以学生即便教了这个他也没办法批阅所以势必老师会要求学生用IG或其他的形式来教教其实也达到刚才委员的方式好 很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11278.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11286.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
希望教育部繼續努力把海獅、台灣鷹、抖音、TikTok、小紅書都刮刮出去它出去以後要怎麼用家庭的東西我們沒辦法管 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11294.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11313.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
阿公阿嬤也在看這個 我們沒辦法處理在學校裡頭 包括學校的老師這一關就要守住不然這些的台灣孩子去給中國這些的東西害死對我們台灣是不利的教育部繼續加油 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員謝謝王逸川委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請謝榮介委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11335.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11338.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
主席我請教報請劉市長喂好出場你好好講好有問題聽得懂聽得懂聽得懂聽得懂聽得懂這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11362.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11366.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
抖音要把它禁掉你哪有這個思維的各位報告 我們不是要盡量 而是我們的美國大陸的瞭解盡力的不夠辦法打敗他他很小時候我們現在叫做AI內閣 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11391.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11395.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
我當時在經濟委員會 為了AI 要給普及化 專民化你要怎麼有競爭力呢不管小紅書 不管什麼 我跟你說 我都鼓勵孩子進入但是你說這個東西裡面 美國金也金沒得 靠靠你們金的最好辦法 處理 了解 最好靠我做爸爸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11418.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11445.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我們為什麼沒辦法沒自己的抖音呢?我們為什麼台灣沒辦法研發自己的平台、自己的社群呢?你要讓孩子有這個自由創意,這是我們的優點咧!我們台灣的孩子跟台中的孩子不一樣,就是我們的所創自由啊!我們的自由就太誇張了!你吃金吃金、吃金吃金!我不知道你以前讀書還聽過一句話嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11448.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11449.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
你幾年出的? |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11449.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11452.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
五三五三喔 你看我差不多講世代了以前我們都看世本的有沒有老鼠們都給我們禁嘛 這麼禁那禁 這樣不可以 那不可以越禁 我越想要感情可能? |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11452.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11453.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
可能喔那叫做鹽瓜腹出九七鹽白腹就出阿里不達 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11477.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11492.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
沒辦法啊,你每天都在謹記,我們是用正常健康的接觸我們要跟孩子說這是健康、這是不健康、這是對、這是不對現在的孩子的世界,真的網絡了他的世界,不是我們所想的那個世界啊只有謹記、怒吼,你知道最近網絡、抖音裡面最紅的是什麼嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11501.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11513.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
一些網紅 很多啦 但是譬如說 說抖音啦 好啦 說的最紅的什麼 你知道嗎 這兩個各位你不瞭解嘛 你要怎麼去約束教育制度 說叫孩子去瞭解什麼我告訴你這中小學的學生 這兩個各位最紅的什麼 你不知道王世堅所有的學校 你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11529.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11545.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
小朋友叫我拿王世堅的橡皮說你能不能幫我讓他簽名我去找 因為我找王委員 我說拜託 簽一下我問那孩子 我說阿翔有沒有 我們班就是這樣 大家都會唱啊這現在的世代 但是你說他會很久嗎 不會啦一波一波啊 一波一波啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11560.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11565.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
所以,我們既然合成AI的內閣,我們要對各行、各業、各戰促去發展我們的競爭力,對不對?你全部都用金的角度,我認為,沒辦法達到我們的目的,我不知道你的看法是什麼? |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11584.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11610.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
各位報告我們事實上是依法行政我們是依據我們今年通過的九月份的資通安全管理辦法是各級機關尤其是教育部所屬的學校都不能採購跟裝備中國大陸製造的軟硬體自然就包含了抖音跟小手機那沒問題啦那是APP應用軟體 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11613.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11630.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
在制度上 形式上 依法沒問題啦但是在教育上是我的嘛你說家庭只有因為這樣就被我配合人家全部都跟孩子一起我告訴你 如果家庭就要結盟這樣你有沒有了解到這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11633.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11643.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
我們了解 像現在這個也不行 那也不行 那也不行我回去去更好 我去辦他也行 他也行 他也行 只有我不行媽媽這樣是要怎樣 家長跟孩子一間 要怎樣去面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11650.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11670.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
搞不好是不是要扶著孩子 尋找扶著家長我們有輔導家長 我們有那個工具包 對不對有有有 那個工具包我是跟你建議啦不要有意識形態的置入啦 沒有沒有台灣的油店就是煮油 因為我們就是煮油我們的輸送煮油造成我們今天的孩子 鼻子比較活潑 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11671.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11683.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
所以我們的競爭在右邊還在裡面如果連最重要的競爭在家主右邊都比A3這對我們教育來說是絕對絕對的負面我不知道你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11686.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11714.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
自由我們必須尊重但是在教育的現場如果有些網址網站的內容有這樣的內容違反到違法我現在在跟你說的我必須要去禁止我在跟你討論不是你以法所則改去禁的東西嘛對不對就是說你在年高新高的過程中對這個孩子在使用這些所有的平台使用3C的產品包括未來他要進入AI的世界你敢不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11716.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11722.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我們結合但是所以侷限在我們的教學以及學習上面我們其他的並沒有進去並沒有撲破 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
11739.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
11763.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
因為孩子出社會後,他就進入三夾界,包括我們現在傳統三夾面臨到關水的挑戰經濟部只說你產業要轉型,要怎麼轉型?我做很嚴謹的,一個月三萬,現在轉世界的薪水越來越多,大家都在提升如果你懂得AI,進入AI,把AI當成工具 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
11764.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
11780.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那個時候全民都會蛻變啦,是不是這樣?並不是說因為AI的發展,你的工作機會就去到百十幾啊,那這樣是不是要對學校的教育就要開始啊?要讓他們有這種的概念,是不是這樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
11782.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
11803.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
你們有做這種的結合嗎?有,我們有各式各樣的AI教育,教育AI但是你教育他,要讓他會善用啊是的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的,會的, |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
11806.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
11820.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
整個社會都是這種環境這樣好不好好你把你們對著這個孩子這部分的教育的設計跟辦法你一分輸給他們分析可以嗎可以好 感謝你謝謝謝榮介委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請張雅琳委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
11837.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
11842.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
好 那我們請述發部跟教育部 謝謝述發部胡竹蜜跟教育部劉次長好 我想剛剛那個謝委員我想他應該是蠻吃素的啦為什麼紅的是王世堅不是他這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
11859.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
11876.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那不過我想因為接續剛剛的題目我可能也會再重複再問一次就是有關於說這個抖音的部分我們看到速發部有一些做法但是我也要強調一件事情就是說今天為什麼這個這麼的嚴重就是說我們在很多的國際研究顯示了 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
11877.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
11891.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
他們用模擬的方式用模擬一個13歲的孩子在加入了這樣子的平台之後大概幾個小時之後這個TikTok會推播給他超過一半的內容都是攸關 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
11893.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
11911.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
自殺自傷自殘的一些相關的資訊所以為什麼TikTok它是一個非常危險的一個平台那特別是說呢現在有九根據這個台灣傳播調查資料庫最新的資料台灣九到十二歲的孩子都在使用TikTok |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
11912.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
11938.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
所以我個人是非常支持我們要去禁因為這個禁是跟孩子的生命息息相關了所以我想問一下就是說現在出發部有說我們要來禁可是做法說是要遮蔽中小學的Wi-Fi連線忘記拿幫我按好了忘記拿那個遙控了不好意思 幫我按要遮蔽中小學的Wi-Fi連線限制兒校透過校園網路連線到TikTok |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
11939.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
11956.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
所以我們也有要提出這個不適合15歲以下青少年使用的APP清單那目前學校的管控技術是透過這個行動裝置管理技術進行管控例如他可能在使用平板的時候都是用MVM來管控個人的載具也需要申請核准 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
11958.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
11980.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
那好像有一些做法但是呢其實家長的意見不一因為大家會認為其實是無法全面防範的特別是說也有學生來表示說我們都有自己的門號吃到飽啊進不進根本就沒有差所以校長也有講同樣的意思就是防不勝防甚至我們現在已經看到了已經有網站來教他如何破解 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
11983.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
11998.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
好如何來去破解這件事情如何越獄所以我想請抒發部跟教育部都來說明一下我們到底還有什麼更積極的做法來因應這樣子現在已經發現的這個破解之道可不可以請教育部先說明然後再請抒發部補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12002.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12029.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
跟委員報告是我們還是強調我們是有關於這些抖音跟小紅書的因為它是大陸製的軟體我們沒有辦法就是就在我們的沒有辦法在我們的所謂的深深有平板斑斑有平板深深用平板的載具上面去下載這些東西這是確定的那我們的學術網路上也是不會有擁有的所以在學校的 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12030.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12055.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
學習環境裡面是無法使用抖音跟小紅書的至於他要不要利用自己的手機跟用ADSL來使用那就是可能是書發部要有進一步的除非他已經他去的一些網站他內容上已經違反了所謂的兒少法的規定我們會透過iWIN的機制去叫 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12056.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12081.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
業者下架如果業者不下架我們教育部才會接著就下架至於其他這個我們就請蘇巴布好了好 茲克斯是跟委員報告就是目前我們教育部所管的所有的載具不會有這樣的狀況我知道剛剛次長已經說明了有新的資訊嗎對 應該是這樣講因為我們是整個都會列管所以它只要 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12082.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12110.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
就是越獄了我們就會知道有一台不在我們的管轄裡面還有它的使用量所以這個目前不會有這個是不會發生的就對了對 我們會密切注意這個議題謝謝委員好 謝謝 那我們請蘇巴布網路當然是透過Wi-Fi它內的或者是我們教育部會去處理它那個APP一定應該是不能裝 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12112.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12127.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
我想我剛剛講的是說今天其實是你只有屏蔽附近的網路學生其實用自己的方式其實是還是可以使用的所以我們才問說這樣子的一個做法我們有沒有什麼樣因應的方案還是發布現在完全沒想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12127.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12150.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
应该是说我们现在是正在盘点相关的比如说儿少有害的这些APP对然后我们也期待再跟卫福部或者是跟教育部共同讨论一下比如说我们在游戏的里面应该要怎么样去做一些我想问一下因为你新闻里面书发部有讲到会延你12岁以下孩童不能设T-talk我想知道到实务上面你要如何来执行这件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12151.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12165.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
其實現在很多的像臉書也好會有一些這種社群媒體他們自己有一些自律可是有時候是家長幫他裝的所以這個部分可能家長的溝通也是非常重要所以我們像其他平台他們事實上都有一些自律機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12167.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12189.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
他們就要求說幾歲以下的小朋友對 但是問題是每個平台的約束就是我雖然有一些自制 我有一些控制但是我像今天大家在講的這個Ttalk相對於其他平台還是更弱的而且並不是那麼的明確不然我們的9到12歲小孩如果他講了12歲以下他們會去內控的話那我們怎麼會有超過一半的小孩都在使用呢這就顯示了他這個內控機制是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12192.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12208.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
對委員指正的是不過這個部分我們後續真的會再跟衛福部還有教育部來共同討論那速發部可以技術上面提供必要的支持謝謝好我是希望還可以有更積極的去做法不然我覺得這樣子其實只有靠平台自治其實是沒有辦法解決的這個問題因為對他來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12210.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12228.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
並沒有什麼壞處啊大家多使用TikTok多使用小紅書對他來說反而是一件好事嘛對不對好那我想問一下就是說我們現在其實在許多的國家呢都有一個非常積極的做法我不曉得說蘇巴布知不知道說這個澳洲其實已經禁了大概是九個吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12230.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12242.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
九哥的這個app那我們是不是對於澳洲的一個做法因為據說我收到的消息是法國也要跟進了那我不曉得我們對於澳洲的做法他怎麼做的我們有沒有清楚的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12245.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12265.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
这个部分有没有禁止儿少来使用这些社群媒体的部分刚才讲其实我们相关的法规的主管机关还是在卫福部或者是教育现场这样子所以这个必须要跨部会来一起了解然后一起去做必要的处置对但是因为是你们自己的报告里面有写啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12267.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12287.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
對啊這是一個研究不過它還是需要跨部會就主管機關來就法律上面看怎麼處理這樣子所以這樣聽起來你們沒有了解還是靠其他的部會是嗎技術上面我們可以處理沒有問題技術上面我知道政策上面應該要怎麼樣定調怎麼樣去進行那所以我們了解他們怎麼去做這個年齡驗證的技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12289.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12314.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
其实年龄验证有时候是去买手机的时候就可以去做必要的控管那这个很多技术面我们真的还可以再讨论好 了解 谢谢那接下来我们再请回来教育部就是说我其实一直都非常关注这个议题那也因为这个儿少使用这些社交平台里面会衍生到后续的不管是儿少诈骗 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12315.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12339.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
或者是這個兒少性剝削影像的一個流出那其實甚至還有人會因此因為洩漏了太多的在上面跟孩子要了太多的個資或者是兒童自己不小心沒有意識因為大概有超過一半的孩子其實都沒有意識到他傳遞的這一些個資之後可能會造成後患無窮的問題那我想問一下就是說我們這個數位素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12340.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12360.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
好 我們現在的一些宣導跟教案的部分呢根據我從老師還有家長的回應是說我們都非常的簡單 非常的直接就是跟那小朋友說不要…而是我們其實沒有提供太多的一個情境讓孩子知道說可能犯罪者會如何的犯罪這樣小孩才有意識到說這好像是一種犯罪的情境 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12361.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12384.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
因為我也要跟教育部要求就是說因為這些壞人其實都非常了解孩子在青少年時期跟家長的關係可能沒那麼好學校有很多的同儕壓力他都太了解了所以如果我們沒有在這些劇本裡我們不了解這個犯罪情境我們沒有呈現給孩子孩子真的不知道他已經掉入陷阱了所以我們在這些相關的教案上面我們還有精進的空間嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12385.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12404.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
有的有的有的我們事實上每年都有請老師的在職在職訓練有關於不管是媒體素養跟數位媒體素養那我們也會請那個剛才我有報告過我們會請有資音院的教學的老師跟專家學者入校手把手的 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12405.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12430.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
教学协助还有教材的设计我们会及时的将一些案例放入里面的学习如果委员有一些新的或更好的资源我们教育部都会愿意放到我们及时更新的教材只有不断的更新老师的培训才会积极的带领学生去试诈了解不要被骗这样子 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12430.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12445.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
因為我時間已經到了我再簡單要一個資料就是說我們目前針對於這些數位素養對於學生的部分我們有幾個版本然後我們更新的頻率還有我們現在在學校裡面是不是有要求有多少的時數 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12446.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12466.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
那這個資料是不是可以提供給我那同時我們對於家長的一些要求又是什麼或是有沒有一些相關的指引這個東西也是非常重要的因為有蠻多的家長其實小孩子的個資是因為家長而洩露出去的好 謝謝謝謝張雅玲委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請陳俊宇委員質詢時間四分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12484.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12509.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
好 謝謝昭偉 我們有請劉次長請劉次長好 次長午安在這個數位時代兒少接觸短影音社群媒體還有深層式的AI時間越來越長媒體素養已非一個學習的選項而是生活必備的能力一向 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12511.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12535.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
透過教育積極培育的基本素養教育部在2023年發布的最新版本它是數位時代媒體素養教育白皮書建置了媒體素養教育的資源網在網站中也有許多資源可以利用但是仍有幾個問題我想在此請教一下次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12536.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12553.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
報告中對在職研習的描述非常完整但對於師資培育端著墨較少師培課程過去很少處理媒體素養再加上學科的界線模糊 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12554.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12582.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
怎麼教 誰來教會變成第一線老師共同的一個困惑雖然白皮書中明確提起鼓勵各師資在培育大學踴躍開設相關的課程並定期於這個課程發展平台來檢核開課的這個學分與時數但是教育部目前所掌握有多少這個校系是以這個獨立課程方式來開設媒體素養或是相關的主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12583.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12606.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
而有多少是以各科融入為主這部分是請次長簡要說明一下好 謝謝委員關切我們實質培育未來的老師如何因應未來的AI的素養目前我們的資料下面是以獨立課程開設媒體素養的還有相關主題的課一共有38校38校一共開設了116門課 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12609.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12621.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
共有1938人次的研習第二個就是如果以各科融入式的媒體素養教育相關課程一共有44校這個detail資料會再給委員44校並開設了799門課相當多然後一共有13805名 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12632.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12658.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
這師師生已經開始上課了所以我們會持續辦理所以在這方面我們算是課程蠻豐富的我們會持續辦理另外在課程發展平台檢核的時候除了有沒有開課時數之外教育部同時會不會去關注課程內容是否真正處理到兒少目前常見的媒體議題而不是形式化的一個課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12659.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12685.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
事实上我们在独立的课程里面事实上就已经要提到说课程内容有关于媒体批判还有媒体的专题还有媒体试读还有媒体伦理还有等等这些都已经在含挂在课程里面那有关各科的内容也是类似所以其实在他们快要变成老师的时候我们就已经能够在里面了 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12687.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12715.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
在還沒有變成老師之前好那在職的這個老師也有多元的這個研習管道我們在夜報中呈現了許多這個研習的場次還有人次例如這個媒體素養的研習還有精進教學計畫短影音的防護課程等等那我想進一步了解教育部是否掌握這些研習管道的實際參與情形那研習結束後教育部是否會提供後續的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12716.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12743.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
延伸支持來協助我們老師在這個班級中實際來試行這個研習的內容而不是只停留在一次性的這個聽講首先謝謝委員在持續關切我們在職老師的進修在112年到114年之間我們補助師資培育的大學辦理教師在職進修所謂的真能學復班真能 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12744.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
12767.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
他原來不是資訊的他來學分班一共7個班次那我們也估也辦理了29場次的中小學主任校長培訓班還有在職班 培留班等等一共3256人次那我們也鼓勵大學透過高等教育媒體素養發展的課程計畫培養種子老師在109到103一共培養156 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
12773.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
12794.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
這些從事老師剛才我已經有報告我們有一個叫手把手的計畫就是我們會邀請有經驗的教學的老師跟一些教授到各校如果各校對這個方面有需求我們會入校去手把手去精進然後我們在定期我們定期也會對 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
12795.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
12817.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
中小学的老师做真能的演习我也在书面上面报告你说在基本款A1 A2的已经百分之百19万6千名的老师已经完成了那现在进阶版的真能级是A3的课程现在已经有10%的老师会在那明年还会增加深层式的AI如何在经济在教学上面的课程 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
12819.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
12845.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
好 那最關鍵的我希望說老師在這個整個過程一定要是教得出來而且能夠讓我們的孩子能夠真的學得到因此也希望說教育部在既有的這個基礎上進一步強化我們之前與這個執教老師的這個相關支持讓我們媒體素養不只是政策上的一個願景而是讓我們孩子在上課的過程裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
12845.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
12869.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
真正具備有他們想要學習的這個能力會的 我們會與時機際的去增加他的教材這樣子好 以上謝謝次長好 謝謝謝謝陳菊委員諮詢官員請回座接下來請陳培宇委員諮詢好 謝謝主席那有請教育部次長請劉次長喂好 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
12874.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
12901.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
好 智障午安是對 午安我想要跟你談一下關於今天的議題我們辦公室一直在這個議題上做的研究其實是從閱讀面切入我們來看一下其實已經有非常多專家學者提出來說當我們用越多的網路而我們的腦神經就會越習慣網路破碎的 然後片斷的甚至是影音動態的但是靜態閱讀它其實是需要安靜的穩定的神經迴路所以其實差別非常非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
12901.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
12922.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
很多的老師、專家、學者甚至像黃哲斌他是在網路上長期的新聞觀察者和評論家他一直在提醒很多的家長要注意這個事情那對於家長來說當然他們有責任然後孩子們也需要在家長的協助底下開始學習閱讀但是我們在教育部這邊我們到底還能夠做哪些事情我們其實想要跟教育部這邊來持續討論再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
12924.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
12950.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
接下來有另外一個研究其實是台師大接受我們國家的委託長時間針對3到5歲的小孩使用3C的習慣來做調查跟研究結果發現現在在2022年他們的公告數字說台灣的小孩在3到5歲每一天用3C的時間已經來到兩個小時這是2022年的數字我相信如果現在去看2024或是20233到5歲的小孩用3C的時間絕對超過這個時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
12953.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
12977.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
回應我剛剛說的當我們網路用的越長資訊越片段然後越動態我們越難安靜的閱讀而孩子不能安靜的閱讀進到校園會發生什麼情況呢就是沒有辦法進入學術性科目的學習對不對我們沒有辦法反過來要求老師說你每一堂課國英術色字全部都用影片全部都用動畫全部都講笑話來教小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
12977.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
12998.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
从来都不是这样所以对于现场的老师来说他们感觉到是困境是孩子们越来越难安静孩子们越来越学不会稳定所以也导致很多师生的冲突课堂经营的困难所以我们一直拜托教育部用阅读对抗3C这件事情下一张所以我在总咨询的时候也拜托过院长拜托过教育部长 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
12999.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13019.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
我知道你們做了很多事情讓我把這邊講完那我們要感謝教育部在我們辦公室極力的呼籲也很多專家學者提出呼籲教育部已經先到學前階段你們做了努力我要先公開感謝你們你們說在114年到117學年度我們要在學前教育階段推出有系統的閱讀計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13021.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13035.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
協助現場的幼教老師家長跟孩子我們從閱讀切入看起來不是直接對抗3C但是我們培養另外一個正向的能力這個真的非常非常非常感謝教育部那我們看到你們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13036.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13056.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
裡面相關計畫開始執行只是我現在發現另外一個困境我們有了錢但是你們給幼兒園的選書原則說到明年4月才會提供我猜想可能是在委託專家學者的時候有困難還是說組成研究團隊有困難這個部分因為我時間有限你們可不可以會後到我們辦公室來跟我們討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13057.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13071.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
因為看起來錢給了嘛可是現場我認為很多幼教老師在看到這些錢他們可能不知道怎麼選書或者是有了書不知道怎麼跟孩子做閱讀的課程計畫這個部分我們再來討論好不好好再來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13072.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13100.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
谢谢你们我们当时提了幼教法的修法其实我分三个阶段第11条我要谈的是目标我们在幼教法里面我希望加入建立幼儿阅读兴趣第12条的版本我说持续提供图书跟阅读的相关资源第32条我希望我们在空间上也给予幼儿园支持这个是我自己的修法版本当然希望后续委员会有机会讨论也希望教育部也许在修法未完成之前我们可以政策先行好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13102.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13127.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好 時間有限我自己說 不好意思啦好 再來國中小的部分我們因為跟樂推老師有非常多的合作全台灣有非常多樂推老師之前我們辦公室辦了全台灣的公開座談非常感謝教育部你們以前都是一年一年計畫你們後來因應樂推老師的需求改成兩年計畫真的很棒 謝謝你們現在有老師問說對於表現優良的閱讀學校跟樂推老師可不可以給予三年計畫然後去排除掉一些你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13128.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13154.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
要擔心的防弊機制這個我們再來討論好不好好 次長你都說好好 我們再來討論我們會再持續演繹我們會再跟你們討論好 最後一趴樂推老師其實很多學校越來越多人發現樂推老師原來真的會教閱讀而且那個教的閱讀是真的讓小孩可以學會閱讀然後就會變得比較安靜變得比較穩定學術性科目也會變好那也感謝地方政府跟中央政府你們一直都有在這邊努力喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13155.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13176.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
可是很可惜我們現在看到國小有月推的比例大概不到30%國中比較多快要到50%可是總計來看其實不到30%我們真的希望未來才化法剛剛院長才開完記者會才化法新版才化法之後我們希望中央跟地方各自承擔月推老師的工作這個非常重要對不對次長跟你講一下是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13179.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13208.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
我剛講的閱推啊幼兒教育啊或者是國中小的購書計畫其實非常多都是希望用這麼多滿滿的閱讀資源對全國家長跟全國老師宣示說我們教育部在閱讀對抗3C這件事情我們有更多的決心我們一起努力所以最後投影片好你們可以把這張拍回去那我們辦公室也會再繼續跟你們開會喔就是第一個相關閱讀推動方案的計畫還有就是學權閱讀還有就是閱推老師的計畫還有最後才化法我們在教育部跟地方政府如何分工 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13209.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13228.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
積極推進閱讀資源這樣好不好好 次長謝謝主席謝謝謝謝裴育委員質詢謝謝次長其實這個對閱讀的推廣這個習慣的培養我也覺得非常非常的重要我非常支持裴育您所說的接下來請蔡奕宇委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13236.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13240.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
好 謝謝主席那我們是不是有請教育部次長慶雄次長喂好次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13246.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13264.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
市長我們現在行政院有一個框架叫做AI新十大建設所謂針對人才培育的方面就是認為說在2025年到2027年大概平均每年至少要增加3000到4000的AI的數位人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13266.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13296.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
那這個人才培育當然就是未來台灣的整個AI跟生活的一個落實那在教育面當然是優先要的那我們教育部現在到底要怎麼來啟動我們不管是中小學他們如何去做AI的這樣的一個對學生的教育呢那是不是有請次長說明一下有關於您關鍵的人才培育是我們教育部很重要的政策以及發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13297.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13324.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
那在大學端這邊如果只要是跟AIAI跟資通上面的有人才需求的科系那只要是他的生思比在合乎條件的狀況之下我們都願意增加他的招生的名額然後詳細的我請高教師說明這是高教師我現在想要問的是我們怎麼落實在中小學這一塊那是不是請 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13325.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13341.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
是 跟委員報告就是我們教育部基本上我們就是國中跟國小是在建立學生AI的基礎那我們教育部推的他們知道使用AI嘛對 有兩大主軸對一個是透過AI來學習 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13342.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13360.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
一個是學習AI所以透過AI來學習我們有開發教育用的AI工具然後同時讓他們用在各科的學習學習AI方面我們非常強調的是AI的使用要合理 正用 危害避免還有一些倫理議題我們從小就開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13362.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13389.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
然後到高中我們除了這個之外我們延續到高中我們有多元的AI的這種課程的一個選修然後除了這個部分之外我們開始讓高中生接觸到不同的AI應用比如說怎麼用AI來做探究或是問題解決然後再做不斷的持續深化然後再到大學就會是接到我們大學的一個專業人才還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13391.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13418.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
产育跟业界所需要的人才来做这样的一个培育所以在小学端的部分当然第一个就是说他们学习用AI以及怎么用AI作为他们学习的辅助工具那如果这一端的话是不是也是需要要有对应的一些老师所以老师也要有他的叫做AI的教材那我们还是把它叫做补充教材那目前的补充教材是由谁来规划的 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13420.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13445.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
跟委员报告这个部分我们是由国教署跟智科师这一边我们会合作来规划所谓的委员提到的所谓的AI素养的教材那如果是老师怎么用AI在学科的教学比如说我怎么样用AI来教数学这些就是国教署跟智科师这边我们有发展出研习的内容 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13447.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13470.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
對 所以現在已經都出來了嗎是因為你們2026年就叫做AI教育的四年計畫就是明年就要上路了其實跟委員報告所以應該都要有教材對 跟委員報告就是我們剛才講的其實老師的培訓我們在今年年初的時候就已經開始在做對所以這一個部分陸陸續續我們就是開始在 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13471.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13495.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
這個我想老師學習是很快因為老師馬上他只要有教材他就是知道要怎麼去教導學生那學生在學AI相對也是快因為他只要會用手機 會用電腦基本上就知道怎麼去用AI但是AI所帶來的就是說包括剛剛講的倫理的問題包括怎麼去做深層式AI的訓練就是怎麼下這個指令 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13500.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13526.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
這個可能就是學生需要去學的這一塊那我還有一個比較憂心的就是說因為我們現在AI大概就是說在學校端就是叫做我們有叫做數位前導學校那是這樣的一個數位的一個前導學校在偏鄉地區尤其是學生人數比較少的偏鄉的學校有可能會讓他導入AI的你們的數位前導的一個學校嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13528.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13546.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
偏鄉地區的還是會有機會他是前導學校他就有責任就是把他所發展的教材跟老師的教學經驗分享給其他的學校所以前導學校會先來訓練然後再分享到其他的學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13547.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13573.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
就是說我比較擔心教育部應該去注意就是說未來整個AI的一些課程他如果過於變得說集中在比較都會區的學校的話是不是會造成更大的在教學上的城鄉差距那這樣的話我想對偏鄉的小孩子他在學習AI上他可以得到的資源相對的少這個我覺得教育部是要注意的我們會特別注意好謝謝好謝謝次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13576.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13594.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
謝謝蔡易瑜委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝主席 楊瓊英發言人邀請教育部次長請留次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13599.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13626.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
市長好我們來討論首先討論短影音的議題短影音現在席捲了全球然後不只是要佔這一波的流量紅利各大社群短影音主要的特色它就是很簡潔而且在很有限的時間之內能夠創發出爆發力跟創造力傳達訊息跟故事 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13627.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13649.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
但是在這樣有看似很輕鬆的一個娛樂形式的背後它卻有一些擔憂就是你會不會不知不覺的這個光開當中一直循環演算法不斷的去散播用戶他感覺他有興趣的內容他演算法出來他會針對你有興趣他跳出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13650.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13669.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
所以會使人一刷再刷而且難以停手他不斷地在刷進一步會影響到專注力跟時間的管理特別本期要跟你討論的是兒童跟青少年他如果成癮的這個問題我們要怎麼樣去應對 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13672.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13693.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
因為我們看到丹麥有宣布這樣的方向將要禁止15歲以下的兒童使用社群媒體同時也有提案說要授權給13歲以上的孩子授權給父母來決定是不是同業孩子來使用社媒 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13694.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13708.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
這樣的一個協議方向也得到丹麥很多的政黨的支持但是國家在保護兒少的行為也從現實面去引申到整個網路的世界丹麥 法國 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13710.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13733.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
澳洲那都有這樣的方向那換句話說AI的生活是離開不了人類而且是每一天都非常的密切但是我們要反映出如果說這個兒童因為線上成癮跟有害導致他的心理的部分呢那麼部長你認為你要怎麼樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13736.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13747.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
這個代表部長來的次長你認為要怎麼樣的加強兒商的這個部分使用社群媒體的這個行為呢請就說明教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13751.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13763.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
回答的是在校園内还是一样是因为我们将通过九月份通过的知通管理办法我们在学术网路上学校各有学术网路上就不得 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13766.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13790.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
裝設或安裝有中國製的所製的所謂的軟硬體這個單案包括了所謂特定的一些這個是針對限制這個部分區塊的APP本席請教的也就是說整體性你的教育不是只有在學校內你的家庭教育社會教育他都touch得到而且你的APP你到底要不要分級 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
13791.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
13806.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
你要怎麼樣能夠避免兒童去接觸到這個不適當的內容嗎除了你要怎麼樣管控不影響他的身心身心以及時間的管控第二個你的APP有沒有要分機請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
13807.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
13824.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
APP如何分局我想請蘇發布回答我們在校園內跟家長之間我們有素養教育我們也有數位工具包還有家長老師學生的使用守則我們的希望藉由教育的方式引導家長跟學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
13824.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
13840.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
這個是我們的希望跟願景但是本席告訴你一個數據所以你必須要應對政策也就俄羅斯人們針對6000多個國中高中的學生來進行問卷調查在2025年裡頭台灣兒少網路安全的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
13840.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
13864.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
你顯示了青少年對於社群媒體的依賴度是很高的這是目前我們逃離不了的而且必須要去應對的那每天使用的比例高達84.6%有部分的青少年已經陷入沉迷的狀態那調查也發現11.6%的表示自己或同學曾經受到同學朋友的性影像是有11.6%比較於2023年的9.7%它是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
13869.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
13890.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
在外流方面自己或者是同學曾經外流個人的性影像的部分是高達8.7比2023年5.2還要增加所以你的數字已經告訴你你必須要有一個對策同時青少年每增加一個年級自己外流性影像的機率是升到19.6% |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
13893.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
13921.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那我們也看到青少年如果沉迷在社群上那吸引向外流的機會他是大增的所以次長社群媒體已經成為生活不管是學生大人也好他是不可或缺的一部分我們要如何的能夠讓孩子在正確的學習讓他能夠正康健康的去使用社群媒體這非常的重要所以你們的應對機制要怎麼去做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
13922.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
13950.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
我們還是要跟家長溝通還有引導我們也給家長一些指導一些手工具包是希望市長目前你所做的答案出來是不斷地在負面的這個數字增加所以本席要請你還要去研議因為這個關係到整個家庭的關係以及親子的管教方面都是息息相關尤其本席最注重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
13951.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
13980.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
青少年兒童的心理問題這是非常的重要所以在這樣的情況下你也認定這個議題我們必須要去嚴厲應對那你把你嚴厲的方向給本席我再給你一個數字給你我們看到深層式的AI進入到青少年的日常生活58.4%的青少年每週至少使用一次20.9%是每一天都會使用一次那大部分使用都在查資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
13981.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
13996.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
不只是寫報告翻譯資料摘要製作圖卡所以兩個議題本席也說了我們現在看到有12.7%的學生是照抄AI所提供的答案來替代作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
13998.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14021.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
這個數據告訴我們所以也有28.2%是運用這個方面來用於情緒的一個支持尤其在青少年的使用AI的比例更高所以這個議題是很嚴肅的議題我們必須要好好的去面對但是我們看到在媒體素養的方面會查證AI資訊是否正確的是不到40% |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14023.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14051.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
所以我们除了以前本席跟教育部讨论老师要怎么样培训能够去辨别这个是AI的答案还是孩子的答案你们说刚刚我听到你们的回答是说你们从今年开始开始在培训这个非常的重要非常的重要第二个就是因为你如果是正确的使用AI它是有助于帮助于学习这一点很重要所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14052.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14078.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
具體要求要讓我們的教育部呢針對於學生適當的使用數位工具怎麼樣去能夠去對的健康的方向因為唯有如此才能夠增加我們的人才的一個競爭力所以目前的數字告訴你是不及格的那你要怎麼樣協助這些孩子協助國人能夠有正確的使用AI的這個方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14079.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14092.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
您說呢 持續努力持續努力 你持續努力之餘 你要去應對現在的樣態 提出方案好不好 提出方案給本席謝謝楊瓊英委員質詢 官員請回座接下來請林倩琦委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14108.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14120.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
好謝謝我們主席陳昭偉我這邊請教育部的次長劉次長和這個速發部今天是司長是嗎對不起主秘抱歉主秘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14126.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14152.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
好 謝謝今天我們來針對防範不當AI的生成的兒少的內容如何來加強數位跟媒體的素養來做一個討論本席今天先從日本發生的一個案例來談這件事情京都的警方日前破獲了一件AI性剝削的案件主要是一個16歲的少年把自己喜歡的同學的照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14153.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14174.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
讓網友來製造生成AI製作成一個性化短影音並在那個Discord的社群裡面來散發群組裡面有數千人這個是一個很嚴重的偽造性私密影片然後的一個剝削事件但是最可怕的是加害者竟然是同學 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14175.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14188.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
那他的動機竟然是因為喜歡這個同學喜歡他把人家製造私密影像的這個同學那這個案子有三個狀況本席這邊來凸顯這三個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14190.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14219.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
第一個就是深層式的AI已經讓未成年人能夠輕易地製造高擬幀的色情影片第二個部分是社群群組像Discord或Line已經成為散佈的場域而且是相對難以追蹤也沒有辦法及時下架的第三個部分是受害者多半不知道自己被性剝削了因為這個影像基本上是偽造的台灣面臨的孩子面臨的這個問題也不會比日本少 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14220.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14246.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
我們各部會在整個校園AI身為性影像剝削有沒有比較完善的跨部會防堵機制就成為如何處理跟解決這樣子事件的關鍵所以本席在這邊指出AI生成的相關犯罪已經是新的犯罪太陽但是現行制度有一些漏洞第一個是平台的責任不明確所以Discord跟Telegram等 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14246.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14263.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
是海外企業那封閉式的群組難以要求下架那第二個部分是AI技術的日新月異那使兒少難以具備足夠因應的科技倫理那也沒有辦法未成年人常常認為這只是開玩笑只是群組 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14264.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14288.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
分享但事實上他已經影響到很多人而且構成了犯罪第三個部分是AI生成的工具也很容易取得那很多的都是免費又免登錄匿名就可以做出來本席想要請教教育部跟速發部那我們是不是有完善的跨部會的防堵機制而且是不是夠及時那第二個部分是教育部在校園端是不是有足提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14288.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14313.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
足夠的AI使用跟倫理教育的內容我們現行的課綱是不是有讓學生教導學生如何使用生成式AI運用不但有可能會傷害其他人甚至犯罪本席認為教育部應該將AI身為的更多的額外風險納入校園的性平教育或數位素養的內容是不是請次長這邊來先做一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14314.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14337.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
好是的謝謝委員的關切首先這個涉及的這件事情那如果校園的任何一個人包括學生碰到這件事情如果反映到教育部我們會轉請衛福部的信引因所以又轉來轉去本席剛才一直強調一個概念就是這個即時性我們會立刻請衛福部的信引向 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14338.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14358.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
處理中心去處理去要求他們下架我們校方也會馬上進行學生的輔導那至於養成教育這個一定是老師要在數位在媒體那本席要問的是說教育部你們有沒有在這個部分更強力的讓數位素養跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14359.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14387.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
這個科技倫理把它放置在你們教學各項的教學內容上而且能夠因應現在即時性的科技的演算速力跟速度有 我們所有老師都有受到我們的數位學習的一個真能的基本款都已經上完課現在我們都鼓勵老師在做真能可能速度要再快一點因為我們要追上AI的速度會增加生成性AI對教學的影響跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14388.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14409.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
是不是那速度真的要快一點好不好然後目前本席這邊來請教一下速發部那麼平台演算法跟加速擴散AI內容的這個部分你們的監理機制那速發部我們是不是有研擬這個修法的方向可以參照歐盟DSA要求大型平台也負起社群內監管的一定責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14410.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14435.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
那例如說那個平台是不是該揭露未成年使用的風險評估來建立違法影像快速下架快速下架的一個程序因為快速一點那受害者可以減少在這裡面被他也完全都沒這等於是被別人這樣子加害他也不知道的這個狀況那是不是可以簡單說明你們目前政策法規沿你的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14438.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14466.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
就是有关这个内容的部分可能NCC可以来回答不过就是针对现在AI基本法正在讨论就是有送到立法院这边来我们会提醒相关的AI的风险然后会跟跨部会一起来合作相关的作用法怎么样规范这些AI的运用的时候的课题那当然比较直接的就是比如说我们针对游戏有相关的分类相关的APP它会分不同的级别那至于游戏的APP之外还有没有什么样的 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14466.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14496.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
APP是需要被分級管理的這個部分我們也會跟衛福部然後跟教育部一起來共同討論這樣子謝謝竹蜜這邊的一個回應那本席這邊就是面對政策法規那你們在這個過程內其實也要去注意到你們說那個跨部會等到我們跨部會真的跨起來的時候可能時間上都有點來不及那剛才你的回應也有一些內容上沒有辦法那麼縝密的那是不是可以在會後提供相關的書面報告給本席那也盡快那本席還是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14497.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14519.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
要提醒因為數位時代那個速度很多時候都是來不及的所以被害者常常在無形間就被加害者來侵犯那這個部分其實是刻不容緩的所以在內容過程中當你們要所謂跨部會的那個即時性應該要成為主要考量的一個核心關鍵謝謝謝謝林倩琦委員質詢關羽請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14526.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14540.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
接下来请林月琴委员咨询主席麻烦教育部的刘次长跟抒发部的胡主密请刘次长跟胡主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14546.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14569.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
市長早市長你知道今天是世界兒童人權日嗎可是諷刺的是昨天有在網路上的公益網紅竟然跑到學校在未成年人同意的情況下開直播請問一下次長你不覺得很好笑嗎為我們竟然在兒童人權日的前一天 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14569.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14581.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
發生這樣的事情校園是可以這樣子被所謂的網紅開直播賺流量的嗎連一個網紅都不知道這樣的行為是犯法的話一般人知道會知道嗎會不會有更多人模仿 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14584.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14603.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
針對這件事情是不是請教育部一個月內提供給我報告告訴我怎麼讓這樣的事情不再發生因為我覺得這蠻嚴重的等到有人投訴校長才出面做制止可是孩子已經上了直播台被訪問了總共有兩個孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14603.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14624.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
怎麼會一個魔術師竟然可以夾帶閒雜人等進入到學校裡面去那就要麻煩教育部針對於台中市的學校能夠去做處理接著要問的是就是校園霸凌的網路延伸的問題如果霸凌行為發生在校園主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14625.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14640.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
機關自然是教育部可是當霸凌影像被上傳到網路上的時候我們的兒少全法第69條沒有本來就明白的規範網路上足以辨識孩子的身份跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14641.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
14658.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
侵害其人格的資訊主管機關必須依虛實對應原則來負責通報如果講虛實對應的話那就還是是在教育部來請求下架跟後續處理所以請問市長只要網路上有足以辨識受害學生的霸凌照片或 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
14658.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
14685.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
影片依照現行規定是不是教育部應該負起責任是的我們會包括剛才您提學群台中的事情那個我們都會列為校案通報是那必須有一個通報然後再加上這個如果任何的影音是違反了兒少法的規定那市長在我上到這個諮詢台的前一刻我都還看到就是說為什麼此時此刻網路上依然可以輕易看到校園霸凌影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
14687.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
14700.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
那除了通報機制以外有沒有主動監測甚至目前教育部在網路霸凌的影像的通報下架監測追蹤這四個程序到底有沒有制度有沒有SOP有沒有執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
14700.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
14721.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
我們目前那時候必須要有人通報結局之後我們還是要送到IWIN去審核然後審核之後他們會要求下架如果真的也不能下架我們教育部才會有時候如果你講說要送IWIN我想問要多少天時間兩天嗎 三天嗎到底你們現在控制的時間到底多久的 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
14723.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
14743.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
應該很快跟委員報告其實艾運的處理速度是蠻快的只要很明確的網速可是這時候就有可能事實上是下載然後留存在然後再轉傳到時候又再另外一次的對這個耳哨去做霸凌所以這樣我覺得還是要去主動去了解到這個狀況來 謝謝我們的教育部接下來主 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
14749.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
14763.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
主B這邊你平常有在用社群軟體嗎有在用翠嗎為什麼這樣子問呢因為上次我總質詢的時候問院長而是到網路安全到底誰負責院長回答事實上是速發部要負起責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
14764.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
14781.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
那可是作為 如果既然這樣子作為社群平台的主管機關的話應該很了解大眾在用什麼樣子的一個平台那我們就要來問的是我自己也有用催可是在我使用催之後呢那我就發現催往往 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
14782.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
14802.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
會是訊息來源最新的地方有什麼影片 相片都會一手資訊都在粹裡面甚至在熱門影片下還是有看到很多記者來問說可不可以來使用你的影片那顯示粹的那個普及性可是我前陣子在粹上面接獲陳情是說有隨機砍小孩的影片在事發當天不斷的被分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
14803.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
14813.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
那直到今天早上我打開推都還是找到這個無碼砍人的影片而且事實上是小孩被傷害的影片請問一下你們知道嗎 有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
14816.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
14837.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
這個內容的部分那個NCC那你們怎麼處理呢如果剛剛那個講的iWi的平台那個部分是現在大家都會把相關的資料訊息往那邊去檢舉然後那邊就會去處理啦可是如果都要有人檢舉的話那影片是不是就會像這則一直到現在還是留存在因為大家看了五感 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
14838.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
14862.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
否則就是我們的民眾都一直覺得反正砍小孩的影片反正就一直在讓大家可以去觀閱那我覺得這是否恰當當然是不恰當的所以我覺得速發部是不是應該要來做這個如果你們事實上是平台的主管機關那我覺得是不是應該要主動來協助各部會去即時對應之後去處理這件事情才不會讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
14864.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
14886.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
孩子受到傷害的影片還目前到現在還有更重要的是是不是也可以要求平台的自律原則所以請抒發部這部分可以進步趕快來做處理這個平台的管理抒發部會跟相關的主管部會所以請一個月內可不可以提供就是你們怎麼去做處理這件事情提供報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
14888.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
14912.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
會服務NCC一起來這樣子謝謝月琴委員質詢我這邊要跟主命說一下其實月琴委員質詢跟倩琪委員質詢他們有提到當有不當影片侵害到額上的權益的時候我們有沒有快速將影片下架的這個機制我們要如何做到更好更快來保護我們受到傷害的孩子我想這個是剛才一直提到但是你沒有正面回答的 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
14912.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
14926.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
那我也希望說這個部分我們不管是家長不管是我們關心孩子的各民眾都非常的擔憂我也希望說你們針對這個部分你們有更精進的做法然後這個報告你就要交給我們月勤委員還有倩琪委員好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
14931.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
14952.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
接下來請黃婕委員質詢黃婕 黃婕委員不在接下來請鄭天才委員質詢鄭天才 鄭天才委員不在請鍾嘉斌委員質詢鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在請邱志偉委員質詢邱志偉 邱志偉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
14953.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
14974.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
请陈冠廷委员质询陈冠廷陈冠廷委员不在请林楚英委员质询林楚英林楚英委员不在请郑振前委员质询郑振前郑振前委员不在请李坤成委员质询李坤成李坤成委员不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
14975.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
14989.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
今天登記質詢委員均已發言完畢另有吳佩奕委員 林楚英委員黃婕委員 李昆城委員提出書面質詢關於今天的會議作如下決定報告及詢答完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
14990.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15005.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料及未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以書面答覆報告委員會今天議程處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位 |