| IVOD_ID |
170505 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170505 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[2] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[2] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-16T10:21:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-16T10:31:38+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/c57864e9296d4775f115b00232e16c981ac734a26d834dc4a4701c14be3154050be9ff9e72e124835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:21:07 - 10:31:38 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查：
一、 行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案。
二、 本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案。
三、 本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案。
四、 本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例草案」案。(僅詢答)(以上各案如未接獲院會交付審查之議事處來文，則不予審查)） |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
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鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.185 |
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19.903 |
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有請國防部部長還有經濟部次長請國防部顧部長跟經濟部合次 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
55.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
所有政委好這個何次長好今天審查這個行政院版的國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案還有這個民眾黨團的還有這個國民黨團的主要是這三個這個行政院版這是行政院版的總說明裡面的文字第一個我們看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
69.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
法例名稱國防自主無人採季採購就是要國防自主無人採季也就是要買自己的自主好 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
70.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
83.691 |
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你的草案說明總說明特別提到無人載機產業涵蓋載機製造電池系統光電感測器人工智慧通訊設備軟體開發及維修保養等多元領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
89.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
117.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
国军采购无人 最后才是后面才是国军采购无人载机创造无人载机产业附加机会及投资效益所以前面都是经济部这产业科技科技所以经济部有科技专案他整个这个经济部的预算里面有科技专案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
118.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
138.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
這個是經濟部的一個非常重要的所以我們要國防自主無人載具當然就是要經濟部來去協助國防部是協助國防部你這邊也提到創造無人載具附加 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
139.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
165.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
產業附加就業機會與投資效益打造國防安全及產業發展效益並行之國家新經戰略可創造國防及民生雙贏的局面好我們看這個第一條的條文的說明跟我剛念的是類似類似我們看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
166.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
191.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
國民黨團的版本國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例這個我們的相關的無人載具在科技專案裡面都在推動也編列了預算所以我們怎麼樣去強化去加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
192.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
220.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
也許經費年度的預算的關係那我們特別用法例法例來明定來去加強這些預算這些相關的這些推動所以國民黨團的版本就提出這樣的一個條例草案這裡面第一條也特別說明了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
221.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
250.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
國防自主與產業升級雙重的效益我們看這個第二條主管機關國民黨團的版本跟民眾黨團的版本是一樣經濟部主管機關當然這裡面因為涉及到我們這一次的很重要的就是因為國防的部分國防要自主 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
251.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
279.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以國防部也特別列為主辦機關怎麼樣在這個國防自主的無人採集的這樣的一個推動上兩個機關共同的推動這個也是現在在進行中的也就是剛才經濟部次長說的次長跟次長每半年 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
281.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
307.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
會有這樣的一個匯報那我們現在把它法例化提升為法例為什麼說提升為法例呢因為行政院本來就有一個無人載具產業發展統籌型的計畫把這個計畫提升為法例而這個計畫就是經濟部為主就是經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
311.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
338.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你看我們這個計畫裡面就提到建於無人載機無人機及水面水下無人船以廣泛用於農業監測環境保護物流輸出很多包括國防自主及民生供應鏈以實現產業發展國防自主及民生供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
340.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
367.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
這個就是已經有這樣的行政院的這樣一個很重要的計畫在推動中我們怎麼樣能夠更強化所以要提升為法律的位階這個就是一個很基本的所以這個部分因為我們不要太為難國防部為什麼國防部的專業不在科技啊不是不在科技產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
370.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
398.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個就是不要為難國防部的同仁怎麼樣讓國防部跟經濟部共同的去推動要以經濟部為主原來現在的計畫就是啊所以這個部分剛才講了就是主要是這個四大推動的主軸在這個計畫裡面也提到啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
399.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
412.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
剛才顧部長一再提到的這裡面就提了建立非紅供應鏈整合能量113年完成軍用商規及無人機採購案總共3422架6887億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
423.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
451.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
藉由國軍訂單逐步達到規模經濟並促使產業成熟所以我們就是把這個計畫提升為法律的位階也就是要達到顧部長一直強調的建立非紅供應鏈而這樣的一個推動各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
452.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
473.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
國防部都有編列預算經濟部都有各部會都編列預算去推動因為不是只有國防部還有其他機關也都會用到也需要都在推動也編列預算都有甚至日本都來買了日本無人機大廠以前面採用飛虹供應鏈跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
483.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
495.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
臺灣做這麼重大的一個合作國際的訂單也創了紀錄所以我們就是把這些提升為法律的位階才能夠符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
497.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
519.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們真正的需求所以這個部分呢這讓這個我們的部長還有我們的所有的委員希望在審查條文的時候能夠跟委員報告跟委員報告我們沒有要搶經濟部有關於產業的輔導發展我們國防部就是對我們要軍用的武器我們要進行採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
520.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
545.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
就這麼簡單啊各位委員的意見是不是說我們要的軍用的裝備的採購要交給經濟部然後由經濟部編列預算然後由經濟部來理解如何的武器採購符合作戰需求如果不是的話那就是兩件事一件事就是我們所要的軍備由我們國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
546.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
566.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
依照我們的作戰需求我們來進行採購那至於這個產業的輔導現在不要把兩件事情把它弄成一件事情嘛我們提的是一個特別條例我們要有一個特別預算我們很簡單的目的就是要符合我們作戰需求的一個國民團的改革啊你連看國民黨團的版本的條你連看都沒有看你是主辦機關啊沒有說整個預算要背在經濟部沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
576.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
587.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
不要隨便亂翻你連看條文都沒有看那現在請問一下在5條跟16條所編所相關的條文裡面哪些部分是國安部 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
589.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
612.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們條文可以討論 但是在這邊寫得很清楚 主辦機關是國防部那我覺得就是說 國防採購是一件事 產業的發展輔導是一件事兩件事情最好不要把它放在一起 我們並不知道如何來現在行政院在推動的就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
612.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
623.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
而且現在行政院在推動的就是就是如同民眾黨團的版本跟國民黨團的版本是一樣的好 這個 張偉張偉 結束了 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-07-16T10:21:07.185000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-07-16T10:21:26.122000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
召委，有請國防部部長，還有經濟部次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-07-16T10:21:26.122000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-07-16T10:21:26.883000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
請國防部顧部長跟經濟部何次長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-07-16T10:21:35.706000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-07-16T10:21:35.947000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
鄭委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.5 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-07-16T10:21:37.228000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-07-16T10:21:37.708000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
部長好、何次長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0.571 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-07-16T10:21:39.189000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-07-16T10:21:56.001000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
今天審查行政院版的國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案，還有民眾黨團版的，還有國民黨團版的，主要是這三個。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-07-16T10:21:57.762000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-07-16T10:22:15.309000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
這是行政院版的總說明裡面的文字，第一個，法律名稱是國防自主無人載具採購特別條例，就是要國防自主，無人載具，也就是要買自己的，自主！ |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.828 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-07-16T10:22:17.595000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-07-16T10:22:46.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
你的草案總說明特別提到無人載具產業涵蓋載具製造、電池系統、光電感測器、人工智慧、通訊設備、軟體開發及維修保養等多元領域，後面才是國軍採購無人載具，創造無人載具產業附加就業機會及投資效益。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.753 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-07-16T10:22:47.331000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-07-16T10:23:20.728000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
所以前面都是經濟部相關的產業、科技，且整個經濟部的預算裡面有科技專案，這是經濟部一個非常重要的部分，所以我們要國防自主，無人載具，當然就是要經濟部來協助國防部。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.781 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-07-16T10:23:22.150000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-07-16T10:23:40.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
你這邊也提到創造無人載具產業附加就業機會及投資效益，打造國防安全及產業發展效益併行之國家新興戰略，可創造國防及民生雙贏局面。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.949 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-07-16T10:23:42.082000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-07-16T10:23:48.943000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
我們來看第一條條文說明，跟我剛念的是類似的。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-07-16T10:23:51.884000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-07-16T10:24:53.181000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
我們來看國民黨團的版本，法案名稱是國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例，我們相關的無人載具，在科技專案裡面都有在推動，也編列了預算，所以我們怎麼樣去強化、去加強，也許因為經費、年度預算的關係，我們特別用法律來明定、加強這些預算及相關的推動，所以國民黨團的版本就提出了這樣一個條例草案，裡面的第一條也特別說明了國防自主與產業升級雙重的效益。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.916 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-07-16T10:24:55.021000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-07-16T10:25:59.395000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
我們看第二條的主管機關，國民黨團的版本跟民眾黨團的版本是一樣的，經濟部是主管機關，當然這裡面因為涉及到這一次很重要的部分，因為要國防自主，所以國防部也特別列為主辦機關，怎麼樣在國防自主、無人載具的推動上，兩個機關共同推動，這個也是現在在進行中的，也就是剛才經濟部次長說的，次長跟次長每半年會有這樣的會報，而我們現在把它法律化、提升為法律，為什麼說提升為法律呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.921 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-07-16T10:26:00.296000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-07-16T10:26:57.193000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
因為行政院本來就有一個無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫，現在把這個計畫提升為法律，而這個計畫就是以經濟部為主，且這個計畫裡面就提到，鑑於無人載具（無人機及水面水下無人船）已廣泛用於農業監測、環境保護、物流運輸等等，以實現產業發展、國防自主及民生供應鏈三大目標，所以行政院已經有這樣很重要的計畫在推動中，我們怎麼樣能夠更強化呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-07-16T10:26:58.354000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-07-16T10:27:10.317000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
就是要提升為法律的位階，這是一個很基本的，這個部分我們不要太為難國防部，為什麼？ |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-07-16T10:27:10.317000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-07-16T10:27:30.187000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
國防部的專業不在科技、產業，所以不要為難國防部的同仁，怎麼樣讓國防部跟經濟部共同去推動，要以經濟部為主，現在的計畫就是啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-07-16T10:27:35.951000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-07-16T10:27:41.255000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
而剛才講的就是這四大推動主軸。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-07-16T10:27:42.116000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-07-16T10:28:16.713000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
這個計畫裡面也提到，剛才顧部長也一再提到的，建立「非紅供應鏈」整合能量，113年完成「軍用商規」無人機採購案（共計3,422架、68.87億元），藉由國軍訂單逐步達到規模經濟，並促使產業成熟。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-07-16T10:28:18.093000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-07-16T10:28:55.284000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
所以我們就是把這個計畫提升為法律的位階，也就是要達到顧部長一直強調的建立非紅供應鏈，而國防部有編列預算，經濟部也有，各部會都有編列預算去推動，因為不是只有國防部，還有其他機關也都會用到，都需要，也在推動，也有編列預算，都有！ |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-07-16T10:28:57.866000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-07-16T10:29:16.972000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
甚至日本都來買了，日本無人機大廠已全面採用非紅供應鏈，跟臺灣做了這麼重大的合作，國際訂單也創了紀錄，都在推動嘛！ |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.804 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-07-16T10:29:16.972000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-07-16T10:29:36.643000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
所以我們就是把這些提升為法律的位階，才能夠符合我們真正的需求，所以這個部分就讓部長還有所有的委員，希望在審查條文的時候能夠…… |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.983 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-07-16T10:29:36.643000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-07-16T10:29:48.074000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
跟委員報告，我們沒有要搶經濟部關於產業的輔導、發展，國防部就是要對我們軍用的武器進行採購，就這麼簡單啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.979 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-07-16T10:29:48.074000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-07-16T10:29:52.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
對、對，沒有錯…… |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-07-16T10:29:52.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:05.307000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
現在各位委員的意見是不是說我們要的軍用裝備採購要交給經濟部，由經濟部編列預算，由經濟部理解如何武器採購來符合作戰需求？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.946 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:05.787000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:18.536000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
如果不是的話，那就是兩件事，一件事就是我們所要的軍備，由國防部依照我們的作戰需求進行採購…… |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:18.536000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:19.536000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
部長，你可能沒有弄清楚！ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:19.536000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:20.536000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
部長，你…… |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:19.276000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:27.422000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
至於產業的輔導，那就是經濟部的事情，現在不要把兩件事情弄成一件事情，我們提的是一個特別條例，我們要有一個特別預算…… |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.827 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:27.422000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:28.422000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
顧部長…… |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:27.802000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:31.704000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
我們很簡單的目的，就是要符合我們作戰需求的一個國防部主辦的採購啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.806 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:31.845000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:33.205000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
恐怕連國民黨團的版本條文你連看都沒有看，你是主辦機關，沒有說整個預算要編列在經濟部，沒有啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.881 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:43.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:44.233000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
不要隨便亂發言！ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:44.673000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:46.595000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
你連條文看都沒有看！ |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:47.015000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-07-16T10:30:54.421000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
那現在請問一下，在第十五條跟第十六條相關的條文裡面，哪些部分是給國防部？ |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.758 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-07-16T10:30:56.076000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-07-16T10:31:02.219000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
我們條文可以討論，但是這邊寫得很清楚，主辦機關是國防部，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.893 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-07-16T10:31:02.219000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-07-16T10:31:03.219000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
條文可以討論，立法院本來就可以討論啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-07-16T10:31:02.579000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-07-16T10:31:10.943000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
我覺得國防採購是一件事，產業的發展輔導是一件事…… |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-07-16T10:31:10.943000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-07-16T10:31:11.943000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
兩邊都要。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.25 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-07-16T10:31:11.343000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-07-16T10:31:16.065000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
兩件事情最好不要放在一起，我們不知道如何…… |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-07-16T10:31:17.506000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-07-16T10:31:28.517000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
現在行政院在推動的就是這樣，現在行政院在推動的就是如同民眾黨黨團的版本跟國民黨黨團的版本，是一樣的。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-07-16T10:31:30.620000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-07-16T10:31:30.740000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
召委，我的質詢結束了。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.333 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-07-16T10:31:31.240000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-07-16T10:31:33.240000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
謝謝鄭天財委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-07-16T10:31:33.540000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-07-16T10:31:36.111429+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
接下來請楊瓊瓔委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0 |
| gazette.lineno |
478 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（10時21分）召委，有請國防部部長，還有經濟部次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[1][0] |
主席：請國防部顧部長跟經濟部何次長。 |
| gazette.blocks[2][0] |
顧部長立雄：鄭委員好。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長好、何次長好。今天審查行政院版的國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案，還有民眾黨團版的，還有國民黨團版的，主要是這三個。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][1] |
這是行政院版的總說明裡面的文字，第一個，法律名稱是國防自主無人載具採購特別條例，就是要國防自主，無人載具，也就是要買自己的，自主！ |
| gazette.blocks[3][2] |
你的草案總說明特別提到無人載具產業涵蓋載具製造、電池系統、光電感測器、人工智慧、通訊設備、軟體開發及維修保養等多元領域，後面才是國軍採購無人載具，創造無人載具產業附加就業機會及投資效益。所以前面都是經濟部相關的產業、科技，且整個經濟部的預算裡面有科技專案，這是經濟部一個非常重要的部分，所以我們要國防自主，無人載具，當然就是要經濟部來協助國防部。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][3] |
你這邊也提到創造無人載具產業附加就業機會及投資效益，打造國防安全及產業發展效益併行之國家新興戰略，可創造國防及民生雙贏局面。我們來看第一條條文說明，跟我剛念的是類似的。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][4] |
我們來看國民黨團的版本，法案名稱是國防自主無人載具科技發展及採購條例，我們相關的無人載具，在科技專案裡面都有在推動，也編列了預算，所以我們怎麼樣去強化、去加強，也許因為經費、年度預算的關係，我們特別用法律來明定、加強這些預算及相關的推動，所以國民黨團的版本就提出了這樣一個條例草案，裡面的第一條也特別說明了國防自主與產業升級雙重的效益。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][5] |
我們看第二條的主管機關，國民黨團的版本跟民眾黨團的版本是一樣的，經濟部是主管機關，當然這裡面因為涉及到這一次很重要的部分，因為要國防自主，所以國防部也特別列為主辦機關，怎麼樣在國防自主、無人載具的推動上，兩個機關共同推動，這個也是現在在進行中的，也就是剛才經濟部次長說的，次長跟次長每半年會有這樣的會報，而我們現在把它法律化、提升為法律，為什麼說提升為法律呢？因為行政院本來就有一個無人載具產業發展統籌型計畫，現在把這個計畫提升為法律，而這個計畫就是以經濟部為主，且這個計畫裡面就提到，鑑於無人載具（無人機及水面水下無人船）已廣泛用於農業監測、環境保護、物流運輸等等，以實現產業發展、國防自主及民生供應鏈三大目標，所以行政院已經有這樣很重要的計畫在推動中，我們怎麼樣能夠更強化呢？就是要提升為法律的位階，這是一個很基本的，這個部分我們不要太為難國防部，為什麼？國防部的專業不在科技、產業，所以不要為難國防部的同仁，怎麼樣讓國防部跟經濟部共同去推動，要以經濟部為主，現在的計畫就是啊！而剛才講的就是這四大推動主軸。 |
| gazette.blocks[3][6] |
這個計畫裡面也提到，剛才顧部長也一再提到的，建立「非紅供應鏈」整合能量，113年完成「軍用商規」無人機採購案（共計3,422架、68.87億元），藉由國軍訂單逐步達到規模經濟，並促使產業成熟。所以我們就是把這個計畫提升為法律的位階，也就是要達到顧部長一直強調的建立非紅供應鏈，而國防部有編列預算，經濟部也有，各部會都有編列預算去推動，因為不是只有國防部，還有其他機關也都會用到，都需要，也在推動，也有編列預算，都有！甚至日本都來買了，日本無人機大廠已全面採用非紅供應鏈，跟臺灣做了這麼重大的合作，國際訂單也創了紀錄，都在推動嘛！所以我們就是把這些提升為法律的位階，才能夠符合我們真正的需求，所以這個部分就讓部長還有所有的委員，希望在審查條文的時候能夠…… |
| gazette.blocks[4][0] |
顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我們沒有要搶經濟部關於產業的輔導、發展，國防部就是要對我們軍用的武器進行採購，就這麼簡單啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對、對，沒有錯…… |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
顧部長立雄：現在各位委員的意見是不是說我們要的軍用裝備採購要交給經濟部，由經濟部編列預算，由經濟部理解如何武器採購來符合作戰需求？如果不是的話，那就是兩件事，一件事就是我們所要的軍備，由國防部依照我們的作戰需求進行採購…… |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：部長，你可能沒有弄清楚！部長，你…… |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
顧部長立雄：至於產業的輔導，那就是經濟部的事情，現在不要把兩件事情弄成一件事情，我們提的是一個特別條例，我們要有一個特別預算…… |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：顧部長…… |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
顧部長立雄：我們很簡單的目的，就是要符合我們作戰需求的一個國防部主辦的採購啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：恐怕連國民黨團的版本條文你連看都沒有看，你是主辦機關，沒有說整個預算要編列在經濟部，沒有啊！不要隨便亂發言！你連條文看都沒有看！ |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
顧部長立雄：那現在請問一下，在第十五條跟第十六條相關的條文裡面，哪些部分是給國防部？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：我們條文可以討論，但是這邊寫得很清楚，主辦機關是國防部，對不對？條文可以討論，立法院本來就可以討論啊！ |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
顧部長立雄：我覺得國防採購是一件事，產業的發展輔導是一件事…… |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：兩邊都要。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
顧部長立雄：兩件事情最好不要放在一起，我們不知道如何…… |
| gazette.blocks[17][0] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：現在行政院在推動的就是這樣，現在行政院在推動的就是如同民眾黨黨團的版本跟國民黨黨團的版本，是一樣的。召委，我的質詢結束了。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][0] |
主席：謝謝鄭天財委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[18][1] |
接下來請楊瓊瓔委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
104 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
聯席會議-11-5-19,35,20-1 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
洪毓祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
林沛祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
王安祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
陳亭妃 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
邱議瑩 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
賴瑞隆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
林岱樺 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
鄭天財Sra Kacaw |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
楊瓊瓔 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王義川 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
呂玉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
劉書彬 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
謝衣鳯 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
郭國文 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[20] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[21] |
蔡易餘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[22] |
陳超明 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[23] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[24] |
李彥秀 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[25] |
鄭正鈐 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[26] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[27] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[28] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[29] |
李坤城 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[30] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[31] |
羅明才 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[32] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[33] |
吳沛憶 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[34] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[35] |
林德福 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[36] |
林思銘 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[37] |
傅崐萁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[38] |
張嘉郡 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[39] |
蘇清泉 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
1 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2026-07-16 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1156401 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1156401_00002 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟、外交及國防、財政三委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
併案審查：一、行政院函請審議「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；二、本院委員林楚
茵等17人擬具「國防自主無人載具採購特別條例草案」案；三、本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「強化
國防自主暨無人機產業發展條例草案」案；四、本院國民黨黨團擬具「國防自主無人載具科技發
展及採購條例草案」案（詢答） |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1156401_00001 |