| IVOD_ID |
170462 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170462 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-20-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-15T09:34:33+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-15T09:45:08+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f097d2073855cd226dcd4649256f7641a7dabc8f267c39f7d7cf49b11129b46faf1408e11982b4235ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
吳秉叡 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:34:33 - 09:45:08 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期財政委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：邀請審計部陳審計長瑞敏、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、衛生福利部石部長崇良、教育部鄭部長英耀就「政府食品安全管理機制、食安五環與校園食安預算執行及審核結果」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【7月15日及16日兩天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.957 |
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4.469 |
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市長早這一次的事件這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
13.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
35.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
中央這邊在食安法訂定相關檢驗以及後續檢驗的一些規定還有檢驗的品項那執行檢驗是地方政府所以這一次延緩申報就你的觀點來看是中央政府的責任還是地方政府的責任我們都會一起處理啦所以是中央政府有講 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
36.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
60.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
要中央政府跟地方政府合力來解決這個食安問題對不對是而且報告委員其實相關油品的品質的部分在111到114年我們本來就有一些檢驗的專案那時候也是請地方政府去做檢查那這一次地方政府有沒有檢驗地方政府在這一次的資料裡面在前半年我們有看到他有這個要求的檢驗的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
62.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
80.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
有檢驗幾次他的頻率有沒有符合你們的要求跟法令的規定今年的專案有但是今年還沒過去驗今年現在已經七月了還沒去驗那所以今年上半年都沒驗嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
86.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
99.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
報告委員我們剛才講的是有衛生單位直接到現場主動的稽查那11年到14年是有去查四次那今年台中市市安處也有規劃去查這個主動去 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
100.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
101.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
記不記得台中發生非洲豬瘟的傳染事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
124.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
128.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
全國其他的養豬場用廚餘養豬都沒有出現問題就那個場有問題因為其他的廚餘是有經過斟酌的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
135.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
159.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
就那一個廠 今年進了四桶瓦斯從那一年整年就是那四桶瓦斯他整整八九六月都沒有珍珠所以同一批廚餘 他還有分給隔壁的養豬場隔壁的養豬場有珍珠 就沒有發生非洲豬瘟那一個發生非洲豬瘟的那個養豬場 沒有珍珠 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
161.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
176.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以才讓台灣非洲租用的房子破了一個大漏洞我現在要跟你講的是 中央政府在這邊很努力 四人單單有規劃有政策如果協力配合的地方政府不執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
178.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
202.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
不去進行他該做的工作一樣破一個大洞啊所以將來這個前車附後車間嘛現在出現了一個這樣的狀況那將來各地方的地方政府如果沒有好好的照法律的規定去做落實他該進行的查驗的時候或他該進行的工作的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
203.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
227.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那導致這樣破洞的時候要把這事情講清楚啊誰該負責任我當然知道站在中央政府的立場是既然已經發生了我們趕快來協助地方政府一起來補這個漏洞因為這個油炸出來之後有獨子的油是流全國的不是只有台中在用啊中間公司的進口的大豆就是在台中港炸油的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
229.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
248.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那地方政府到底有沒有做了他該做的工作中央政府有沒有做了他該做的工作這是我要今天在這個地方想向你請教想向你討教的謝謝委員當然我們也檢討過就是說在現在我們接下來要處理的過去訂的檢驗評次當然我們訂的是最低的應該要的檢驗評次 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
249.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
271.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
可是其實依照不同的地方政府他看到他的這個廠他本身製造的這個評次等等事實上我們當然希望他們可以因為不同的規格或他的量很大那他去增加他的抽驗評次或者是增加他在檢驗上面的一些應該要的作為你不要欺荒地方政府這樣啦我待過地方政府如果中方政府去給他規定一年檢四次 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
272.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
298.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他能夠一年做到減四次就已經不錯啦你要說如果量大的話希望他主動能夠增加沒有什麼叫主動能夠增加的大家把這個東西寫清楚講明白過去他生產的量你是以量來調查還是以時間來調查這個東西都要講清楚我們接下來會調整我們要求的檢驗評次要把它的依照它的量或者它的規模然後去做它的要求所以我是覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
300.094 |
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324.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
對我們自己要求很高這是很好那中央政府這一次你覺得哪一些地方做得還可以哪些地方沒有做到在法令規定的Fund Renew你不要講說以前因為法令的不完備135款現在的確被檢討嘛大家認為說應該再訂得更嚴我跟你說這麼嚴這麼嚴如果有人不去落實有人不去執行最後還是有可能會出現破洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
326.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
354.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
謝謝委員 謝謝委員給我們這個機會啦我們是6月30收到通知7月1號我們就立刻跟6月30收到通知就跟地方政府一起下去這次包含減掉那減掉的動作也非常的快那我們食藥署會配合這邊 跟減掉這邊合作來把中間的一些部分做一些釐清那當然在相關的 現在在處理上面我們其實本來是希望本來是說它有問題的由我們先處理但是後來認為事態可能相當嚴重所以我們把4月到6月做一個預防性的下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
355.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
367.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那這幾個目前是我們現在正在處理的部分我跟你說你行政機關有行政機關的作為你專權評檢調本席就來自法院啦我年輕的時候當法官啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
368.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
395.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
檢調他會不會因為公務員員疏於執行職務然後造成災害去辦這個在未定之天我們司法都不能干涉我們也沒有辦法講但是司法的時間真的要很長將來可能很久以後被冤枉的人才有辦法獲得一個證明他是有努力做他的工作的所以我是覺得大家應該要講清楚另外你們對地方政府有沒有督導的選擇因為現在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
396.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
413.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
大家都強調中央政府跟地方政府是夥伴關係所以都變得互相很客氣那如果地方政府該做的工作沒有做的時候你中央政府要拿出什麼樣的態度來跟他應對呢謝謝委員真的講到重點因為我們一開始依照食安法整個全責在檢查驗等等相關還有通報是地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
414.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
437.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
後來我們跟食藥署這邊說如果都等地方整理完一輪再上來給我們我們對民眾的資訊會有delay的問題所以後來我們就要求這些廠商直接跟食藥署對也就是他們不論是下架的進度或者是廠商這邊他們相關目前已經查到的資料全部直接要進到食藥署食藥署這邊同時同步跟地方政府得到同樣的資訊甚至更早要拿到資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
438.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
452.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
希望你這一部分能夠盡加緊但是問題是你是中央部會你不可能把所有地方政府該做的事全部都包攬起來所以對地方政府沒有認真執行他的職務的時候該職務的處理要想一套辦法這個獨職到底是從哪裡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
460.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
486.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個其實它是在製造過程中其實這個 就是說這個本田皮事實上像大家在烤肉或高溫烹煮的過程中其實都很容易發生是啦 但是大豆油它是冷嘎的嘛所以這個獨子有一個說法說因為大量進口巴西的黃豆那巴西的黃豆在採收的過程中因為它比較濕 是所以它要用很高的溫度來去烘乾 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
488.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
514.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那跟美國的黃豆聽說還不一樣美國的還沒有這麼濕那是不是如果是原料的來源有問題原料在輸送的過程中在烘乾的過程中儲存的過程中產生的問題這個可能不是你現在三聲五令在那邊要求說你每一批給我查驗原料有問題每一批做出來都有問題啊所以他就必須要造假才有辦法繼續生存 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
514.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
539.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
其實報告委員事實上您講到我們目前至少在開的專家會議裡面也認為說可能是它原來豆子比較濕那比較濕它烘乾過程造成可是這個事實上是它如果這個廠商它有中間它真的採取HACCP標準的製程以及這個製程中有注意到它可能因為原料比較濕溫度比較高會產生這個問題它在製程中就能夠避免產生本田皮超標的問題所以目前我們對於中聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
540.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
555.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
最重要的一個事情為什麼到現在不讓他復工就是他中間的這個HACCP的品管他還沒有提出我們可以接受的說法好 那我現在是請教你一個問題因為現在全世界最主要的大豆產地是巴西全世界最大的量是它 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
556.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
574.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那因為他那邊的濕度是比較高所以他產生的這個豆子他在烘乾在乾燥的過程中要用比較高的溫度而且因為他量大他為了要快速所以他不用比較高的溫度如果是原料有問題你們把問題抓出來之後針對這一些點除了製造的過程原料有沒有問題這個都要做詳細的比對跟查驗不然的話將來還會再出現相同的狀況其實我想委員我們也都知道農產品他本來就有不同的品質的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
585.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
604.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那但是如果照HACCP的原則就是這個標準製程的話或者是我們講優良品管的製程它在製程中它就應該知道會發生這樣的狀況而在品管上面來做避免發生這樣事情的問題意思是說就算是那個豆子有問題只要它製造的方式改良也可以降低這個豆子就對了老實說它中過程如果處理得好就不會發生這種問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
606.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
627.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 繼續加油 我跟你講我個人認為的觀點是地方政府如果他的執行有什麼問題你村政府一定要有對策因為你聽信他說大家分工 夥伴關係他出的問題是你在背鍋啦是加油謝謝委員 謝謝好 我們結束秉瑞委員的質詢接下來請第三位賴世寶委員 |