| IVOD_ID |
17046 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17046 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
聯席會議-11-4-20,15,19,23,26-1 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政、內政、經濟、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
1 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
聯席會議 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[1] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[2] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[3] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[4] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[1] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[2] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[3] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[4] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政、內政、經濟、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-19T08:31:11+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-19T14:52:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
06:20:49 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e0f0f97671e11b2e1f02a0ef817a6d1e5914d0d15f34b2c020cfee8c47353fc195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-19T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政、內政、經濟、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議「中央政府花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別預算案」。
【預算提案截止時間：11月18日（二）下午3時】
【11月19日及20日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:11 - 14:52:00 |
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請主任秘書報告出席人員報告委員會出席委員已足法定人數現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀今日議程審查行政院行情審議中央政府花蓮馬太安溪煙色湖災後重建特別條例特別預算案114年度至119年度宣讀完畢 |
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1928.939 |
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1952.656 |
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我們先介紹在場委員以及我們今天的列席的政府官員我們先介紹吳秉瑞委員好 歡迎接著我們介紹我們今天與會的各位官員我們行政院主席總署陳淑芝主席長 歡迎財政部莊崔源部長 |
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1955.535 |
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1975.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
行政院公共工程委員會 陳金德主委內政部 劉世芳部長 劉部長沒中啦 沒中 OK原民會 曾志勇 曾主委 OK經濟部 賴建信 賴常務次長不要哭啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1986.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
2012.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
交通部 陳彥博 陳政務次長農業部 陳俊濟部長 歡迎部長衛福部 李健德 李政務次長環境部 葉俊宏 葉政務次長 葉市長 歡迎好 其餘官員就請大家參閱我們的書面的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
2016.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2032.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
本次會議由財政、內政、經濟、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會等五個委員會聯席今日安排審查行政院函請審議中央政府花蓮、馬太、安溪、堰塞湖災後重建特別預算114年度到119年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2034.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2043.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
現在我們將依序請下列相關部會首長就特別預算案內容進行報告請簡短再要報告我們先請行政院主席總書陳主席長來進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2053.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2074.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
主席 各位委員 女士 先生今天一腰列席聯席會議就中央政府馬花蓮 馬太西 晏澀湖災後重建特別預算案編列情形提出報告自感榮幸那本特別預算是統合就是111月10號到12號鳳凰的一個颱風和本條例範圍所 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2081.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2097.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
自的一個災害情形所需的一個相關經費所以除了預留後續額度30億元在那邊以外最初供編列270億元那主要年度是114年到119年度分別編列38億元86億元86億元41億元還有11億元和9億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2102.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2123.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那我们资就机关别和正式别简要说明如下机关别编列情形一原住民委员会编列五议员主要是拨补原住民综合发展基金办理灾区维型经济活动贷款等行政院公共工程委员会一议员系办理马滩西厌测湖灾后重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2125.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2146.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
統籌協調業務所需經費三內政府主管編列28億元主要是補助地方政府辦理受災地區市區道路橋樑公共建設之緊急搶救搶修清理清淤局復建工程等市經濟部主管編列91億元主要是辦理馬太灣溪及花蓮溪水系系統性治理等 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2147.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2159.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
交通部主管編列44億元主要是辦理台九縣馬太安溪橋享修及復建工程等農業部主管編列43億元主要是辦理驗證服務監測應變及土砂防治相關工程農業生產環境重建等衛生福利部主管編列1億元去補助光復箱醫事服務機構辦理建築及災害復建及醫療儀器設備災損 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2176.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2195.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
等所需經費環境部主管編列42億元主要是補助地方政府辦理災後沙土混雜廢棄物分類去化災後一般廢棄物清除處理環境護原及環境設施修復等9預備金編列15億元2正式別編列請請經濟發展支出編列192億元佔稅數總額71.4社區發展及環境保護支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2201.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2208.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
編列56億元 佔稅數總額20.7億 預備金15億元 佔稅數總額5.6億一般政務支出6億元 佔稅數總額2.2億社會福利支出1億元 佔稅數總額0.1%以上 所需裁員270億元全數舉借債務資源以上報告敬請主席及各位委員女士先生會議指教並鼎力支持 謝謝好 謝謝主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2230.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2235.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那接下來我們請經濟部賴建信賴次長主席各位委員各位前進今天聯席會審查本特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2252.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2271.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
自感榮幸可以跟各位委員報告本特別預算中有關於經濟部的部分大概是90.91億元各項業務主要內容跟預算編列的情形在要如下首先是電力系統2.6億元由台電公司來辦理配電網的防災韌性改善的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2272.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2286.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這裡面包括配電廠 人手孔引導淤泥掩埋的這個部分修繕還有變電系統的電網韌性修繕及維護其次是自來水瓦斯或是燃氣系統0.95億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2289.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2313.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那為因應這個災害造成供水系統的一個損壞所以必要辦理四項的工作第三個部分是水利設施總共有85億元那主要辦理馬太安溪及花蓮溪水系的系統性治理那這項的工作又關於河川排水通洪的所有的中體治理那主要除了緊急搶修搶險復建 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2315.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2335.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
興建堤防甚至二道防線還有安全檢查之外還有持續辦理疏浚的工作第四項是社會復原及產業促進總共2.36億元主要辦理災區的設備的毀損修繕緊急救災用油及受災戶的用水用電減免 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2337.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2351.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
等等工作那除此之外還有協助受災的製造企業設備及設施的復原以及受災店家消費振興及災區市場災後修復工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2352.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2370.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
除此之外也辦理受災企業的利息補貼協助受災中小企業及稅籍登記業者辦理災害復工貸款及原有貸款利息減免提供利息補貼等經費以上僅就中央政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2371.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2390.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
花蓮馬太安溪煙澀湖災後重建特別預算案經濟部主管編列情形做簡要報告懇請各位委員先進予以支持與指教 謝謝好 謝謝我們交通部賴次長接下來請交通部陳彥博陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2406.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2423.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
主席、各位委員、女士先生,今天應邀貴委員會就花蓮馬太安溪艷澀湖災後重建特別預算本部主管編列的情形,向各位委員做個報告,並請各位委員先進予以指教。 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2424.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2448.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那就本部編列的相關的預算總共本部編列44.2億那現在就辦理的細項做以下的一個說明首先就鐵路的部分辦理鐵路路線 廠站 電路及平交道等相關設施設備損壞損害災後復原所需的經費大概是1.4億元這其中包括第一個是有關東部幹線的鐵路K42加300到K43加200 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2453.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2468.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
還有光復站災後復原工程這裡頭包括了路線的倒渣耗資的系統 廠站的設備平交道的設施的復原光復車站 站前廣場的整建及光復隧道南北口CCTV監視系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2470.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2496.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
的設置等所需的經費大概是1.1億元另外第二個部分是就東部幹線鐵路K146加100上邊坡的一個搶修加固的工程所需的經費大概是0.3億元另外就公路的部分辦理馬太安溪橋的搶修及復建工程還有另外是補助花蓮縣政府辦理道路橋樑附屬設施等災後修復所需的經費39.3億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2498.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2514.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
其中包括公路局的部分辦理台九線231K加952馬太西橋的搶修及復建工程所需的經費大概是35億元另外補助花蓮縣政府辦理受災地區編號公路之道路橋樑附屬設施等災後 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2516.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2539.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
修復所需的經費是4.3億元第三個部分是辦理馬太安溪艷澀湖受災而護的車輛受損報費登記的衛助方案所需的經費是3.5億元以上各項的預算盡按照災後復原工作的需求來核實編列那懇請各位委員支持以利各項復原工作的順利推動以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2542.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2542.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 謝謝市長接下來我們請農業部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2562.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2577.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主席各位委員各位女士各位先生今天奉邀參加大醫院審查中央政府因應花蓮馬灘西醫院社福災後重建特別條例預算的一個審查那以下就本部的部分跟各位做說明第一個部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2578.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2595.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
有關於本部及所屬執行馬太安相關的這些預算在這個條例裡面總共編列了43.07億元那這43.07億元大概分為幾個部分第一個部分是有關於馬太安西燕社屋的整治及相關的工程編列了14.3億那主要是針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2598.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2623.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
驗射壺天然壩體及周邊崩塌地的一個治理核道的清淤另外在光護萬農林道的一個驗射壺的一個變道的一個搶救那第二個部分是有關於農業復原的部分編列的27.46億那主要做兩項工作第一項工作是農業生產環境重建與造林相關的費用是20億那主要還有包括了一些灌排水的一個設施的一個整建 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2624.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2647.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那第二個部分是專案補助編列的7.41億那專案補助本身最主要是協助農民補助農果樹的肺源及新植的一個復耕那及相關的這些資材式農機具的修繕跟溫暖式的一個重建那第三個部分是蓄設結構的一個改變的一個協助那編列的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2649.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2655.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
0.05億元那第三個部分是有關於社會復原及災產業促進編列的1.2億元那 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2659.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2681.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
主要的執行工作是有關於天然災害救助金的一個發放那另外還有跟當地有關的農會的建物設備一個復原邊內的0.34億那第三個部分最主要是透過金融支持來協助我們的農民渡過難關那邊內的0.33億元包括了利息貸款一般貸款的展延以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2682.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2706.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
金融機構承受馬太安西燕社福相關的這些產品的一個損失那希望說透過這樣的一個預算能夠加速馬太安燕社福農業復原的重建工作同時能夠保護下游居民農田及公共設施安全那更重要的是能夠舒緩災民貸款的壓力以及減輕農民受災貸款的一個負擔那希望透過中央政府因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2709.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2734.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
馬三的這些重建特別條例那我們未來會以重塑重檢的原則提供災民慰問金及申請多項的災後的服務有效的回應受災民迫切的一個需求協助恢復正常的一個生活再次感謝所有的委員對於馬太安縣政府重建之相關的一個關心好 謝謝陳部長最後我們請內政部劉思芳 劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2746.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2750.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
怎麼都退 還沒退 突然間跑到旁邊來等他講完我來 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2754.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2777.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
有關於中央政府花蓮馬太安溪艷澀湖災後重建特別預算的報告內政部主管的部分呢簡要的跟大院的各位委員以及各位長官來報告特別預算編列案的情形本特別預算呢內政部主管總共編列28億4100萬元就各項說明如下第一個有關家園及公共設施的部分一家園安置業務編列3億200萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2780.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2799.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
系預計興辦中期安置受災災民所需的中繼屋150戶之前期規劃作業設施興建基地的整地排水及維運等所需經費也協助受災民眾在家園復建期間能夠有安全安穩而且符合基本居住條件的中繼住所 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2800.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2817.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
二 馬太安溪艷賽湖災害受災戶家園復原未住金編列5億元 細發給受災戶每戶10萬元家園復原未住金作為家園清理 故宮及修繕運用等所需經費也協助災民可以早日重建家園 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2817.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2844.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
第三在道路跟交通方面補助地方政府辦理受災地區市區道路橋樑公共設施之緊急搶救搶修清理清淤以及復建工程等編列六億五千萬元也協助地方政府辦理災後復建工作必能及早恢復市區道路橋樑公共設施原有功能並且提高結構安全以避免災害再度發生第三水利設施方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2844.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2872.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
補助地方政府辦理受災地區雨水下水道及污水下水道之清淤搶修強化下水道系統等總共編列13億8900萬元除了協助地方政府在辦理清淤搶修工作之外也協助評估設置雨水排水設施污水下水道系統並提升整體雨水排水效能防止水域污染以及改善居住環境衛生結語的部分綜合以上的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2872.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2873.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 謝謝劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2892.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2916.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
跟各位站在後面的各位幕僚做一下宣告一下今天我們有接802會議室我想因為我們今天質詢的委員非常多也很多的幕僚今天在場我們為了維護我們的空氣品質所以請各位可以移駕到802會議室來聆聽我們整個詢答的一個過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2917.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2944.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
也請大家盡量降低聲量以免影響我們整個詢答的一個過程現在我們開始詢答作以下宣告每位出席委員發言時間為5分鐘每位列席委員發言時間為3分鐘我們不延長今日上午10點截止發言登記現在我們依照登記順序請登記第一位的林德福委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2951.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2959.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主席還有各部位的首長各位同仁是不是請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2975.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2976.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
莊部長 財政部莊部長還有經濟部的賴次長莊部長 我們賴次長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2990.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2997.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
部長我請教因為上週台股14日重挫506點指數來到27453點昨天大盤又重疊了691點指數來到26756點那證交所統計外資上週在集中市場賣超981億元今年累計到11月14日外資賣超超過3766億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3020.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3033.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那我請問莊部長到聖誕節前夕這段期間台股是處於花落盛開蝴蝶自來的狀態還是大難臨頭各自揮您的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3035.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3048.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
跟委員報告我們台股雖然是會受到國際股市聯動的影響出現比較大的波動但是整體面基本的都是AI對不對其他的那些傳統產業幾乎不能生存 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3050.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3064.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
上市櫃的一個整體的營收累計前10個月也是比去年同期成長了12.5%所以基本面是良好的我了解啦好 那我想這個部分呢從4月9號我們國安基金開始執行護盤的任務那我們會審慎的關注國內外的政經事務 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3068.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3084.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
台股容易受到美股表現的影響那美國相關經濟的數據前景不明那我請問部長目前國安基金銀彈是否能夠充足是否需要借用四大基金來配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3085.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3106.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
先前財政部的阮次長也表示說國安基金規模希望能夠更擴大像公股銀行來借題更高達到7000億請問部長你有什麼看法最慢何時會拿版本到 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3107.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3129.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我們立法院來討論有沒有這種想法對 是跟委員報告目前來說國安基金整體規模五千億那其中是跟借貸的是三千那四大基金是兩千目前都還足以支應目前那從四月九號進場來以後那因為我們看到其實國內的股市還是相當的 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3130.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3136.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
所以說妳認為沒有問題不避就對了啦到目前為止並沒有什麼問題而且也執行以來也沒有動用過四大基金的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3137.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3161.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我想美國總統川普17日再度重提被台灣搶走晶片的生意晶片將回到美國生產製造川普表示美國若要重新主導晶片製造必須重新訓練國內的勞工美國在一年內就能夠重新佔據全球大部分的晶片市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3163.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3184.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
此外昨天媒體有報導台積電前技術研發及企業策略的發展資深的副總羅維仁退休前疑似利用職權帶走兩奈米等先進製程的影印資料並傳出已回國美國英特爾 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3188.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3214.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這個川普總統說美國將主導晶片的市場與台積電洩密隱私有關經濟部賴次長對於上述兩則新聞你有什麼看法跟因應啊首先有關於高科技公司剛剛委員所詢問到這個事情我們中共台積電的這個內部的一個說法那除此之外經濟部也派人去做相關的這個瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3215.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3227.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我是希望說這個事情你們要繼續追那我來請你們兩位請回去我請內政部劉部長還有農業部的陳部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3236.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3253.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那個部長李鴻元說馬太安溪這個煙塞浮上游左側山壁不穩定再次發生豪大雨可能會崩下來而且要發生五級的地震整座山會滑下來建議應該討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3267.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3277.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
成災那我請問農業部或經濟部代表剛剛經濟部那個相關這個由誰來負責由上次的台大團隊嗎那個我 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3281.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3302.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
我跟委員報告整個馬賽安上游的部分是由農業部林保署在負責然後我們也委請了相關的一個專家隨時在做監控那您剛才說的就是左壁那邊有大概一億立方土的部分隨時都可能因為大豪雨或是地震的崩塌那前兩次有兩次的新的驗測壺都是因為這樣形成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3303.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3323.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那針對由馬太安溪這個菸攝乎處置的方案中長期的治理以及減災工程14億元我們有辦法人定勝天嗎還是只能順從大自然的威力下另覓一個安居樂業的新天地你來看我 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3324.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3345.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
我想基本上在整個的馬太安上游因為土砂量非常大那我們也會看天候如果天候可以的話我們嘗試的會去開片道去開始做部分的這些土砂的移除但是最主要是每一次下雨都會把這些土砂量帶下來如果說長期累月的帶下來之後它不是也是一個解決的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3347.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3368.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
因為莫拉科風災過去耗時兩年 2011年經濟部水利署於屏東縣高速箱重新修築完成長2560公尺 高10公尺 地下還有20公尺的基樁超級的提防 當時一公尺造價差不多36萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3369.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3387.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
可以抵擋200年的黃紅頻率那此次花蓮光復鄉這個淹水收災慘重媒體報導光復鄉未來新設的超級堤防預計在後年年底建構5公里長50米寬超級的堤防那我請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3388.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3412.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
包括經濟部還有賴次長等等在特別預算水利設施編列99億其中超級提防的預算有多少平均一公尺造價多少是否也能夠像屏東高速那種超級提防抵擋200年的黃紅計畫頻率馬太安溪的滾滾那些泥流 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3413.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3435.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
有沒有什麼看法非常感謝委員的指導朗隆溪的舊樓提房就是剛剛你描述的我有參與過那這一次水利署現在正在這個設計之中針對於高規格提房的工作因為每一條的河川的核心不一樣所以這個絕對會去確保安全明年汛期前就會再做第二個層的一個加強房 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3435.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3454.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我希望人命關天 最重要就是我們要預防如何防止下滯的大水所以說各部會一定要好好的去推動把這些問題解決 以上好 謝謝委員知道好 謝謝林德福委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3475.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3499.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
主席請陳主席長請主席長委員好主席長早是這一次的這個特別條例馬太安溪的這個驗射壺這個特別條例是有沒有包括鳳凰颱風之後又產生另外一個新的驗射壺有有含部分這個部分那有沒有包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3500.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3524.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
逆流之後對光復鄉明麗村所造成的損害有沒有包括這個部分有有喔好那我再繼續往下問有沒有包括鳳凰颱風蘇澳淹水還有宜蘭的災情沒有那一樣是明麗颱風花蓮的就有對宜蘭蘇澳的就沒有這樣不會很怪嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3525.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3543.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
跟委員說明這一次是針對馬太安災後的復建主要是在馬太安溪左右兩岸及花蓮溪水系至於此次鳳凰颱風對於宜蘭特別是蘇澳地區的治水的工作行政院已經折成水利署 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3544.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3556.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我們經濟部也要求水利署在未來的四年一千億的預算裡面來加強這個地方的黃紅措施的改善工作這裡面包括蘇澳分紅工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3557.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3576.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
對花蓮的救災我當然全力支持但是宜蘭這邊的速度也不能比較慢你把它放在後面的1000億這樣子宜蘭人會不會覺得說它的速度沒有特別條例會比較慢會不會有這種感覺不會 第一個蘇澳分洪從112年奉行這位合定之後113 114年 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3579.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3607.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
經濟部水利署都分別編列預算在今年9月通過預算的徵收而水利署也同時在這個預算的徵收的過程去做基本設計我們會同步來並行這個工作四澳分紅的工程水利署除了透過這一項措施之外對於發包策略的部分也會加強還敢辦除此之外市區裡面的賴市長你是一個很有能力而且你從水利署長出身所以我覺得你的講法我可以接受那你請回座我繼續請教署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3611.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3621.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
上一次那個台南那一個颱風是不是有特別條例是那個多少錢600600通過了嘛通過600億然後這次這個270加30有可能300億對這樣就900了嘛900那900這是特別條例嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3631.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3650.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那特別要條例的這些預算雖然不受預算法限制但是有沒有受舉債總額的限制有沒有受這個一年不能夠超過你的預算規模15%的舉債上限的這個限制都沒有期間有受流量限制啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3650.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3673.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那這個上個禮拜本院又在藍白多數的表決之下印給你通過的這個新的他們這個新的這個才化法的這個修正又要規定你計劃型補助跟這個跟那個一般性補助都不可以比以前少所以卓院長有講說這樣又要增加2600多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3675.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3678.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
2646億2646億那在之前因為上一個版本他已經從你這邊財化法已經拿走4000多億4165億那這樣就兩個加起來是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3690.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3710.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
總共是多少就是說總共增加4165億然後這個部分一般性補助它要維持一般性補助和計畫性補助它要維持5455億這就是等於是說這個部分我們必須要增加2646億這個部分我們是沒有辦法負擔 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3714.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3726.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這樣子加起來有沒有超過那個預算法規定不可以超過你的那個預算的15%的上限超過1000多億那另一個法律叫你要違法那這樣要怎麼處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3730.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3748.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
但是有一個方法你可以作帳啊你就虛胖啊你就把你的總預算灌水啊把那個舉借幾千億全部都加進來那這樣灌水虛胖之後後面債務給後面的人背啊你這樣就不會違反預算法舉債15%上限這種事情我們不能做我們不能做這樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3748.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3769.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
有很多地方政府都在做這樣的事情啊不然左也違法右也違法那你要怎麼辦是所以這個部分我們必須要整個要循救濟的程序來救濟啦怎麼樣救濟的程序是這個部分我們大概應該是第一個是要視線嘛呼籲啦呼籲我們也會 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3769.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3783.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
覆議不會過啦覆議只讓我們多麻煩的多表決一次而已哪一次的覆議覆議的時候連討論都不跟你討論耶是那我們也會要求四限啦四限到法官會議現在被停擺了四什麼限 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3786.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3813.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以你要有做一個心理準備今年的總預算不會省就算延到1月31號也不會省我們還是希望委員能夠支持因為預算裡面我當然支持問題是我是少數我在立法院我是少數黨我是跟你講說你要心理準備根本就不會省省了也沒用 省了也違法你們也沒有辦法執行是不是這樣心理要準備好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3816.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3818.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
好謝謝吳秉仁委員接下來請賴世保委員質詢我們謝謝主席各位先進有請財政部長主計長莊部長還有經濟部的賴常務次長賴常次還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3847.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3857.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
衛福部的次長呂政府次長一起來我就不要浪費時間我也好好 幾位長官好你們昨天哪一位回答我 署計長是不是昨天中央政府找的地方是我們去開會結果人家批評你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3871.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3892.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
只有兩張的A4然後什麼資料也沒有沒有基於計算的公式沒有補助的金額沒有分配的比例水平分配也統統沒有什麼都沒有就說突然你就晃晃說除了雙北市以外各縣市都支持人家好幾個人打電話給我說根本亂講一通你們在認知作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3898.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3913.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
來 你講報告委員 昨天重點在談市權的劃分那這裡面市權劃分什麼資料都沒有啊給多少錢你沒有啊市權的劃分主要是包括不是 好啦我時間有限你給我講重點好不好是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3914.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3928.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我就問你有沒有計算公司計算公司是在台灣華裡面的所以我們昨天沒有在談第二個有沒有各縣市的分配比例比如說台北市要拿多少有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3929.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3943.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們是在談事權不是在談分配的比率所以事權我們是談一般性的補助還有計劃型的補助所以等於以114年度的一般性所以你昨天的開會就是談事權的架構和劃分這個花唬爛 這個東西欺世盜名 人家講得好了不起我就問你一個你們現在根據你們行政院版本有了嗎 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3959.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3967.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
有喔 那到底要給地方政府統籌文備稅款多少錢要給多少錢這個是財政部來來來 財政部要給多少錢 現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3971.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3994.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
跟委員報告才化法這個部分在明天會提報院會討論在院會通過後我們在記者會會做詳細的說明那剛剛您提到所謂水平分配的公式沒有揭露其實在我們10月21號的時候已經把水平分配的公式權重還有它的指標都已經說而這個指標也是歷經幾次會議以後縮小了 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3996.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4001.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
中央跟地方是不是66比34我問你這個中央跟地方這個部分在明天的會議裡面會議做討論以後就會對外詳細說明跟委員報告中央統籌分配稅款的規模會比114年擴大那麼我們在這個垂直分配的部分前期會做合一的下放這個部分是可以跟委員做下放好 那我就問你具體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4022.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4032.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我們原來 按照原來的是你們給地方4100多億按照你們新的版本是不是比這個還多跟委員報告在115年來算的話總體中將釋出的是一兆1683億除了中央統籌分配稅款有8874億還有一般性補助款跟計劃型補助款但是在我們的新的版本裡面會比這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4051.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4076.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我們這邊通過的這個我們預計我們的幅度不會比這個小我們的規模不會比一兆一千六百來的小沒有沒有沒有 我沒有聽得懂一兆一千是全部的是不是是全部的就是統籌加一般加補助統籌加一般加計劃型補助款那就明年度比這個還多我們會比這個也就這個因為這個一兆一千多是根據去年底通過的財劃法那我就問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4078.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4083.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
那那個統籌分配稅款是不是維持4100多還是比這個還多這個部分我們明天院會會做討論那院會會記者會會跟各位報告那這個部分呢其實我們會有考量到就是說中央統籌分配稅款裡面要除了錢的下放之外也就剛剛主席講說的市權也要做調整那市權做調整就屬於地方自治的事項屬於經常性的常態性會回歸到地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4106.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4108.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
有沒有增加嘛有沒有比4000多億增加嘛這個4100多億其實當時我們在規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4116.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4132.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
國民黨團這個版本其實是沒有經過這個相關的事權的調整而就直接這樣定了我們那個當時認為就是一個不合理的狀況所以也就是說你4100多億你還是承認啦我沒有說是維持4100多億就比這個還多我們會做合一的規劃這個還是不講就對了來第二個問題那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4144.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4169.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我那個資料那個嘉樂園到底是誰管的嘉樂園誰管的委員好 這個載具這是嘉樂園市面上買得到的什麼標示都沒有沒有CMS什麼都沒有在裡面有這個東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4171.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4197.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個是假的 這也不是真的所以然後呢 裡面的電池是中國大陸的電池就現在市面上買得到的加熱源他沒有CMS 什麼標示都沒有我去查牢半天經濟部 到底是經濟部還是財政部還是衛福部結果衛福部說是經濟部 財政部說是他沒有在管那衛福部說是經濟部 到底誰管經濟部長官不要講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4200.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4203.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
經濟部長官這個載具啊載具啊是不是你管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4208.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4230.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
這個沒有在我們應實施商品檢驗的這個部分的話就不是我們但依照這個衛福部他針對開加熱菸的這個他有相關的一個規範標示的規範衛福部長官衛福部是你們管的嗎我們主要是負責有關標示的部分他外面沒有標示 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4231.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4255.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
都沒有標示這個在市面上都買得到這是你們管的還是經濟部管的衛福部是負責標示的部分沒錯你們管標示經濟部管載具你們要功能負責到現在市面上就買到這個什麼標示都沒有結果一問大家踢皮球經濟部踢給財政部財政部踢給衛福部衛福部踢給經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4259.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4272.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我們是不是 我做一個建議來答應好不好你對於加熱煙的相關的管理這個載具的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4273.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4280.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
一個禮拜內給我報告可以嗎你們三個單位共同負責一個單位可以嗎因為這個載具是經濟部管的所以經濟部負責統籌就聯繫那個財政部還有那個衛福部一起來好不好 請經濟部主管謝謝好 謝委員請就一個禮拜之內提出書面的一個報告好 謝謝賴司法委員接下來我們請郭國文委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4310.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4325.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
主席有請主席長 農業部長請陳主席長晚一點再請農業部我們陳俊記 陳部長委員好主席長你好我想這一個特別預算當中直接補助地方政府花蓮政府就高達79億 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4328.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4346.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這樣的情況底下比例有高達三成其實我看起來是不太合理而且在外界有非常的質疑過去花蓮縣政府在散款 亂花還有去拔條卡二來執行能力在這次救災的過程當中看起來就跨跨卡丘 其實明顯不足 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4347.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4369.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
第三連審計部這113年的決算報告來看花蓮列館的重大的公共建設的預算就高達21億而且執行率只有70%在這種情況底下花蓮明年的預算因為統籌這個款項要增加已經暴增了100多億人力沒有增加再加上風災每年又給20億的情況底下 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4370.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4400.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我覺得主席長你這邊有沒有可能建立一個撥款的機制是用一季或半年或執行率什麼方式而且要延近流用的方式來做控管有沒有可能用這種機制這樣已遭公信他主要是有分年 他有分年來執行他是譬如說如果馬太安溪的部分他是到119年我知道然後這本身就有分差不多四年分了五年 我知道是 所以整個部分也是一般工程都按進度是在撥款 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4400.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4422.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
对 你要控管好而且盈庆留用否则的话预算这样编列它本身你就已经补助它高达3成79亿了加上其他委托地方政府补助的款项还没有计算出来会更高所以我是要请主席长这个部分严格控管主席长你稍微休息一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4422.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4428.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我再舉一個例子給你聽我要跟農業部長對話你注意聽 你先在旁邊聽一下因為裡頭還有編了一筆所謂的農業復興這個費用高達27億那裡頭27億當中有7.5億來作為所謂的農地重劃費用 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4440.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4463.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
一個花蓮才100多公頃 編了7.5億部長你知道你全年度編多少嗎農業部114年到117年 4年才編4億4年才編4億 1年才1億一個花蓮居然就高達7.5億就面積比例跟時間相對完全不符 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4464.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4491.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我跟委員報告這次在馬太安光復災區的部分跟對面的鳳林光復的部分大概有246公頃是屬於它的土石是超過50公分的我們在規劃說它做土地重劃的時候一定要居民第一個同意而且土地重劃有相關的委員會他會實際的去監督問題他們是連地主談都沒有談地主的意願都不清楚了情況底下總共100多公頃的重劃居然高達7.5億 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4493.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4518.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我側面還聽說反正到時候這筆錢就是給給花蓮縣政府到時候他們也留院也可以可以執行掉可以這樣隨便留用嗎我想跟委員報告我們絕對不會說把錢撥出去到縣政府就結束了因為土地重劃有一個委員會有相關的非常嚴謹的一個規定是在做這個處理而且它的面積未來如果說居民經過討論了以後面積沒那麼大的時候經費就會縮編對 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4520.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4530.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
不是大筆一揮要多少就給多少怎麼用中央政府兩手一攤就不管絕對不能有這種事情發生好不好接下來請財政部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4535.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4554.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
財政部長 部長對財法法的修法對你每次都是和顏悅色對藍白的修法現在已經二上加二還是沒有看到你出來表示任何意見只有國庫署署長出來講話而已那三個縣市之所以會反對版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4555.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4578.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那原因在哪裡因為他們既得利益者那整個將來財化法的整個精神會破壞殆盡這種情況底下我從來沒有看到您表態而且在整個特別預算的部分現階段的特別預算當中已經有兩個在執行新式戰機的採購特別預算跟海空戰力提升的一個特別預算在執行接下來明年還有三個特別預算要執行當然是颱風還有國安任性以及包括馬太安這三個特別預算要執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4581.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4602.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
到底這個部分會不會造成整個財政結構的一個惡化都沒有聽到你說明部長你的態度怎麼樣財化法的態度跟委員報告確實在上個禮拜我們先說上個禮拜五三讀通過的財化法要求中央債增加四出2646億那如果這樣子的話加上 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4604.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4626.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
115年度的總預算原先要舉借的2992億加起來總共要5638億這個就是這個部分那這個部分就已經超過了公債法裡面的債務流量上限的15%所以這是不可以的那另外就是幾項特別預算我們目前都在執行當中那當然這個舉借數會再增加上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4630.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4637.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那中央其實這幾年非常重視所謂的財政紀律第一個他會突破15%的上限那第二個他會不會排擠到明年的這個新的這個台灣神盾的一個國防預算那高達預算7000到1.2兆之間的可能性有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4648.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4664.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
这个部分当然整个财政是一个大的资源如果这样在妥善的分配上应该要考量第一个中央的财政要稳健除了我们要提升地方的财政的自主性之外要兼顾财政的稳定跟锐性是一定要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4668.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4696.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
當然會受影響中央的這個一個施政的量一定會受影響的那受影響的情況底下接下來如果說我們這個財法法明知道行政院長已經要來拜會立法院長要進行對話跟針對總預算跟財法法的同時突然有遭到這種突襲修法的情況底下如果整個朝野之間沒有辦法對話就採取對立的情況底下那我問一下財政部長後續有沒有可能採取行政抵抗權 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4698.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4720.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
这个部分当然院长已经会跟立法院会做协调部长你的态度呢本席现在问你不是问院长我们应该是更积极的就是我们会提出院版的才化法我们希望院版才化法做一个更合理性你的积极老师你的积极都拖了很久的积极是这一次才会感受到比较急原来还拖到年底我不过问了几次了从来没有急过 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4721.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4732.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
已經提出 我們這個部分已經報行政院明天會提報院會來討論好啦 積極對話啦 必要的時候對立啦是抵抗權 該行使就行使啦是好 謝謝郭國文委員好 部長請回接下來我們請蘇巧惠委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4747.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4750.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
好 謝謝主席我們請內政部劉部長還有經濟部劉部長賴建興 賴次長賴次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4761.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4784.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
謝謝 劉部長還有賴次長早我們今天在審花蓮馬太安溪艷澀湖災後重建特別預算我想先請賴次長先就回答一下因為我今天要跟您討論的就是防災型的微電網我想先請教一個問題次長丹納斯颱風我們那時候停電停了幾天你還記得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4787.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4811.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
停電事實上停了相當長的時間相當長的時間主要是有3500根電桿的導斷然後造成附電比較困難所以丹納斯台南的這個部分當時讓大家覺得最困難的地方就是電沒有電這件事情造成的災害其實大家非常的感受甚深好來那我馬太安溪堰澀湖這次的災害我們停電停了多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4814.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4834.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我們當天晚上就負電當天晚上就負電進九成了 對不對所以兩個災害其實它所影響的部分完全不一樣那在電力的部分也完全的不一樣我不知道是不是基於這樣的事實狀態所以我跟您請教的其實是在這一次的重建特別預算當中我來跟 我用馬太安 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4838.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4861.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
西義艷澀湖這次的災後重建特別預算就是我們今天要處理的這個部分和丹納斯颱風的這個災後復原重建特別預算兩相對照之下市長你應該可以看得到我現在的資料嘛在丹納斯的時候經濟部主管編了187億辦理了非常多的事項其中有一項是建制小型防災微電網及移動式電網貨櫃等7億7億多 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4865.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4868.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
這是建置新的微電網我的理解沒有錯誤吧正確好來那為什麼花蓮馬太安這次為什麼不用你是因為它沒有電力受損的這個狀態所以就不編了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4880.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4900.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
不是的 首先第一個這次馬太安溪對於電網的一個問題主要是因為配電所跟人手拱埋的一個狀況還有附掛在馬太安溪橋上面的這個電線的毀壞所以我們現在編了2.6億元是希望改善這個但是委員所提 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4900.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4926.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我有看到你這邊確實有2億多這個等於是在有點修復的概念嘛那我現在跟你討論的是上一次在丹納斯的時候我們有一個7億是建制小型防災的微電網我的認為 我的理解是這個是建制新的微電網那在花蓮的馬太安溪的這次事件的時候我們只有修復的部分那我想請問的就是差別是什麼啦那其實呢 次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4927.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4944.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我的理解到目前為止沒有錯誤嘛對不對上面那個有丹納斯的時候有修復有建置新的然後馬太安的這個部分是只有修復舊的目前看起來是這樣是 我分兩個層面跟委員說明丹納斯跟馬太安的一個不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4945.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4960.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
我們光復鄉或是北邊的鳳林鄉比較偏近市區至於說丹納斯的部分我們對於小型的這些路維電網是在山區或是偏遠地區但是第二個部分跟委員說明我們認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4961.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4980.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
整個加強供電的這個韌性的部分微電網的建置在全國是有必要的除了丹納斯原來編編的這個八億元之外我們現在也請能源署針對於全國的這個微電網再去研提一個整合性的計畫希望奉行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4980.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4989.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所以你已經請能源署在做這件事情的研討有包括建制的預算了嗎這個就是我等一下想問你的問題我想請這個內政部長 劉部長您先回答一下我這另外再給你看一張圖剛剛賴市長這邊講到了我就是想要問的問題其實對於丹納斯有建制小型微電網 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5000.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5017.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
和馬太安這個部分馬太安特別條例沒有建制我其實還可以理解為什麼因為是災後重建的條例所以我們等於是在救災丹納斯的時候連電的發電都沒有了所以在這個部分我們要連建制的部分下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5018.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5032.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
馬太安的部分因為它的電就好好的它沒有毀壞的狀態所以我們在這個部分沒有配置建置小微電網我白話文的理解是這樣的話那我可以接受這樣的狀況可是兩者的災害狀況讓我們認識到其實還是有必要要建置防災型的微電網你看像我新北烏來我們在2015年的時候也是經過重大的風災 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5043.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5060.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
可是在那個之後德拉南因為建置了防災型的微電網所以後來再也沒有缺過電了好 那內政部的資料國土署的內政部資料很清楚的可以看到我們現在有114年議城孤島地區需要設置太陽光電及小水力發電的盤整情形一共有184處議城孤島 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5068.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5084.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那麼在地方政府認為有需要的部分如果以光電48處 水利發電有4處那有這個52處看起來連地方政府也認為有需要的那我剛剛的問題其實會不會跟次長剛剛回答其實有點接近啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5084.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5101.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我的問題就是那在重建的特別預算沒有編列那未來不管是內政部的防災計畫也好或者是經濟部你要怎麼配置也好有沒有任何一個單位用哪一項的預算幫這個國家比較需要的部分建置微電網 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5102.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5128.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這就是我的問題因為這是你的資料所以我特別請部長上台好 謝謝委員的關心我想非常的重要就是說我們目前跟經濟部已經在盤點也跟地方政府有做這方面的評估所以你們會合作評估出來就是有需求而且現在的地形地物的條件之上可以做的我們會先做但是有些地形地物上面或者是說整個的社區上面要配合比較慢的狀況之下站在我們消防署是一個防災的角度我們先規劃 譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5130.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5151.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
它是一个用那个电池的方式来协助它预防它在天灾真的变成孤岛的时候它要用电的需求所以我们有这个中长程的计划在做评估那也不一定是列到这次的特别预算因为这次特别预算是以复原重建为主没错 所以我完全了解我刚刚也特别帮大家爬出了我要的其实就是这个结果 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5151.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5164.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
就是國家也會重視這個計畫我希望未來不管是在內政部的防災計畫也好或經濟部你要在能源組或其他任何地方也好我希望有這樣子的一個預算配置來建置國家的微電網 謝謝謝謝蘇小慧委員好 部長請回 OK 好接下來請黃秀芳委員質詢謝謝主席 我們請內政部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5182.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5182.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
請劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5193.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5211.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
委員好 部長好部長我先針對馬太安溪燕舍湖災後我想請教的是因為每一次現在發現花蓮不論是光復鄉或名利村這樣子每一次大雨或者是颱風過後會變成整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5215.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5229.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
道路整個泥濘或者是說整個艷澀湖溢流那我想請教因為這個災民其實到了這個紅色警戒可能災民就要疏散到這個安置的一個地方那 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5230.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5251.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我認為就是說這幾個地方應該要好好去思考這些居民如果說災後譬如說颱風過後然後我們又把道路或者是家裡面的泥沙清完之後下一次的颱風或下一次的大雨又造成地區的這樣子的淹水然後又整個土石 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5252.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5268.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個泥流下來其實我覺得對這邊的災民確實是非常的辛苦那當然就是說地區有人在提到就是說是不是有一個中繼安置的一個計畫那我覺得說這個地方是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5270.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5286.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
讓這些災民或是讓這些村民能夠到一個比較安全的地方而且是讓他可以在那邊安身立命的地方而不是說每一次颱風過後或者是洪水來的時候就要求他們要去安置的地方安置所 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5287.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5303.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那這個大水過後又回到自己的這個家裡面其實我覺得這樣子反反覆覆對他們來講都是一個心理的煎熬那是不是可以先請部長回答好 謝謝黃委員的關心黃委員苦民所苦我們都非常了解現在目前的復原重建計畫從上游的這個監測 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5306.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5330.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
是我們的農業部在負責監測的部分現在越來越有科學的數據可以讓我們了解如果還有其他的天然災害的話我們怎麼樣做好的監控然後再來就是水利署他們在做超級提防的部分在這是短期裡面先防災的角度然後減災然後你提到有關於居民如果要離災的話第一個我們要先跟居民要做充分的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5330.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5336.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
也就是說他們願意先到中紀屋去現在行政院指導之下我們現在已經有150戶左右在做規劃還有他們如果願意做比較長遠的規劃的話第一個我們必須要跟縣市政府或鄉鎮公所達成共識包括他們在國土計畫或者他們都市計畫裡面做真正要做大規模的移動或是大規模的遷移的部分的話我們會來協助可是在這次的重建特別預算裡面是以重建跟復原為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5360.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5385.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那未來如果有這樣子的必須要做的話我們會尊重地方政府的要求那在內政部包括我們的國土計畫或是包括我們的都市計畫甚至處理鄉規計畫我們都會來協助好 我希望就是說不論是中央或地方大家一起合作讓所有的民眾都能夠在當地安身立命而不是每次大雨或颱風來就非常的害怕可能家裡面的家當所有的財產就這樣流 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5386.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5390.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
留走了是好那謝謝部長那接下來我想請教那個農業部部長陳部長喂 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5405.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5421.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
部長好部長我想請教就是說從那個非洲豬瘟發生到現在也將近快一個月的時間那這個一個多月的時間那你們這個廚餘淨養豬也差不多一個月的時間那我想請教部長你的意見就是說這個廚餘淨廚餘養豬 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5427.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5442.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
未來農業部是有什麼樣的計畫或者是因為我們看到現在多數的豬農認為這個廚餘不應該再來養豬因為萬一如果還有一個非洲豬瘟的話影響到的整個豬的產業鏈將近2000億我想請教部長你的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5447.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5466.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我想跟委員說明就是我之前也說過了就是初一本身如果落實徵組他安全的時候初一養豬是沒問題的所以我們有三個前提就是說整個徵組設備他一定要有及時的監控然後地方政府要落實稽查然後設備要相關的匹配 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5467.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5490.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
所以部長我要跟你講的就是說萬一所以我覺得中央政策應該要很明確既然說目前全台灣就是百分之八左右養豬場百分之八左右是用廚餘養豬那有可能這些百分之八如果萬一不小心然後又有這樣的一個非洲豬瘟產生 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5492.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5510.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這個影響是全面的養豬業所以我想請教部長未來這個部分除於禁養豬這個部分是不是中央也要好好去思考要不然萬一如果還有一次我想謝謝委員的提醒其實我們跟行政院還有環境部這邊一直在討論那以農業部的本身當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5511.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5528.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
只要有廚餘就是一個風險但是廚餘本身是不是能夠有一個有效的去再利用或去化如果說我們一下子馬上進的時候那後面造成的環境的影響那更大所以我想我們會持續跟環境部在溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5528.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5545.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
相關的中央的政策應該很快就會有一個比較完整的所以應該是後續的配套全部對 配套措施我們會出來目標就是處於進養豬是那後續的配套應該要去好好對 我們會盡快的提出來後面的轉型的一個輔導我們盡快會提出來是 好 謝謝好 謝謝黃樹方委員好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5553.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5561.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
接下來請振天才委員質詢賴慧妍委員下一個下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5576.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5595.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
好 主席有請行政院公共工程委員會陳主委還有內政部劉部長好 請陳主委內政部劉部長農業部部長農業部陳部長還有我們主席長主席長 OK 好好 這個主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5605.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5627.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
花蓮馬太安吸菸社福災後重建特別條例第一條的第三項特別規定重建地區位於原住民族部落並因應原住民族基本法相關規定辦理我們馬太安的青年部落青年會馬太安部落的青年這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5630.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5648.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
昨天發了一個新聞聲明特別提到300億重建預算失衡行政院必須立即修正重建不能再重演沃拉克的錯誤我們提出五大訴求重建應以人的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5650.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5677.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
居住前文化永續為核心而不是以工程量作為一個指標所以提了五項提升中繼住宅預算不能讓工程99% 災民1%再度上演然後第二個是落實自由事前私情同意重建不能跳過部落第三 安全文化土地優先中繼住宅閒置不能草率強推 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5679.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5702.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
第四 建立安全有尊嚴的避難與中繼系統災民不應該每次都逃到學校第五 工程不能凌駕人與文化重大工程需透明與審議這五大聲明 等一下我會把這個五大聲明這個等一下給主委因為你是整個法阿里的一個主管機關好 這個接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5707.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5736.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
內政部部長就請回座等一下 內政部部長等一下下我們先從農業部開始還有公共工程委會主委好 委員好昨天我有跟行政院院長質詢你也知道這個馬太安西菸社福它是最主要的剛才的聲明也提到人民的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5737.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5762.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
是最優先 這個源頭沒有處理你在做怎麼樣的復建家屋 公共設施都做了堤防也做了 如果又潰壩所以這個部分你花了14.3億14.3億 我再確認一下到底有沒有要挖那個壩體 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5764.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5786.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我跟委員報告就是整個的霸體本身的一個處理它有非常多的模式那從過去這一個多月來我問簡單因為時間的關係有沒有要挖那個霸體14.3億裡面有沒有要挖霸體第一個就是不可能全部用人工去挖因為每一次的好雨它本身就會帶出我們都談過很多次了主委 陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5792.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5811.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
我們要很審慎的現在很嚴肅的問題很嚴肅花了14.3億結果霸體還是存在這是按照你的說法霸體還是存在我跟委員說明一下14.3億結果霸體沒有挖 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5819.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5825.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
如果是這樣 我建議我只能建議我昨天也是說建議專業團隊趕快開會甚至開國際標開國際標 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5833.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5848.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
到底多少錢可以把那個壩體挖下來我跟委員說明我只是建議 不必說我們昨天已經在就是你壩體裡面的是水尋達三次了有那麼多水你把它炸開底下要接得住 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5849.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5875.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
好像樓上三樓那麼多水倒下來我只是很嚴肅的講所以馬太安溪要先輸進才接得住我剛剛講 花了14.3億結果霸體還在然後地震或是颱風又潰壩這個是很嚴肅的所以我建議你開國際標還這麼當然你要先開專家會議所以優先要做變道上去才有更詳盡的監測跟規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5877.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5878.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
按照106年的規定106年中央的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5884.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5909.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
烟射伏霸体就是要开挖易流道这是紧急工程中最有效的方法这不是我写的中央的规定时间的关系因为特别条例刚刚是一个中央的一个标准现在特别条例也规定马太安西烟射伏的整治这是第一条 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5910.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5923.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
解決霸體這是第一個最重要的一個工程所以這個部分你們回去再好好的討論好 時間的關係這個部長內政部部長這個光復鄉也要請主計長的支持光復鄉公所它也是一個受災 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5934.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5959.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我請教一下你們有沒有要補助他們這次的特別預算有沒有補助沒有所以就請這個內政部請相公所提報計畫從一倍金有15億的一倍金我們會詳細評估跟災修有關的都會考慮在內這個部分拜託跟災修有關的都會考慮在內他們真的是受災了然後最忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5960.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5987.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
忙了快两个月了事实上不止两个月包括前面的撤离真的是不止他们也很辛苦 对真的是包括这些文件你看看 好不好另外农业部 部长你的那个11月10号的回函真的是不符合你当初答询我的时候 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5989.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6007.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
完全不符合所以然後呢時間主席已經站起來了然後我也開了協調會的結論這個部分另外就是很重要的就是說立法院也做了一個附帶決議就照這個附帶決議去處理好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6008.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6025.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我跟委員報告能處理的我們一定第一時間就處理掉了現在這個文就是有問題嘛你們的這個文就是有問題嘛就沒有辦法嘛 好不好回去再檢視一下就按照立法院所做的附帶決議 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6026.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6045.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
不是 如果土地不合法的時候我們就完全不能處理那相關的農機的部分他沒有農機使用證那我們可以從官認定那相對單純啦這個你在立法院在經濟委員會親口答覆我的這個部分你回去再好好看一下好 謝謝鄭天才委員接下來請賴會員委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6057.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6060.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
謝謝主席 有請財政部部長 主席請莊部長 主席長經濟部次長 陳主席長內政部部長 經濟部賴次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6068.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6096.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
工程委員會陳主委內政部劉部長我想表達立場支持預算同島一命本席也來自於就是台南丹納斯颱風的重災區那我深知道就是說災後的一個重建對地方的一個重要尤其這個漫漫的長路所以錢非常的重要可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6097.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6117.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
在支持預算的同時我更善盡的希望各位盡到高標準高監督的一個責任那當然就是說這個透明度非常重要會計的責任財政的距離絕對不能鬆散那我們也希望這270億可以做到看得到查得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6118.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6135.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
責任大家各自負擔那我想從這個圓餅圖裡頭我們來看到這一次270億的一個預算它集中在這個治水跟道路光是經濟部就佔了90億然後交通部有44.2億 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6137.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6160.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
這看起來超過一半所以未來的五年這個地方其實透明度最容易被挑剔的所以我們希望就是說跟各位請教一下如果確保這個條例適用的範圍具有最大的一個彈性跟效率你們有沒有辦法做到各位你們在座的每一位 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6161.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6175.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
應該是大家都沒有問題吧這個部分我們會沒有問題絕對會做得到而且我們希望說透過這個預算的支持來保護馬太安溪南北兩岸堤防的安全來確保我們國民 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6176.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6203.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
是不是 有沒有辦法做到就是說如果像我現在問你說你的輸進 輸進了多少立方有沒有辦法更精準的去承諾說可以講到了就是說我公開 我已經就是我的這個效益的一個指標我可以講到更精準就是說馬太安西上游的A段A段它的標投入了多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6204.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6221.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
這個有沒有辦法做這麼透明的一個就是系統性的一個治理這沒有問題我們過去工程表演除了依照公共工程委員會的這個所謂的透明之外水利署也建立了一個廉政平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6222.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6245.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那在这边我跟委员说明举例来讲我们在年底之前本来需要预计输进是100万立方公尺然后截至到目前预计输进是将近40万立方公尺但是我们现在本来是100万现在是输进到40万所以你都可以非常我们现在输进 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6246.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6261.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
的進度已經超過我們年底預定的進度超過了200萬立方公尺所以就是說在這個資訊上面都可以非常的那個明確然後一起的成效也可以非常清楚的去表達是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6262.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6281.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
對 我們有設定明年訊息之前要完成的防洪保護的標準還有包括預算執行期間的保護標準那接著我想請教財政部部長我想在這個第二項承諾的時候強化監督的機制那我們要杜絕這個會計跟財政的一個漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6282.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6311.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
當然我們知道特別條例他有很大的一個彈性他在行政部門裡頭就是說他賦予他很多的一個彈性那來執行那相對的立法院的一個審核跟監管的一個機制就必須要強那個再一次強化那我想在這裡問一下就是說財政部部長如果這個270270億那會不會就是排擠到你其他的中央的建設的一個經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6313.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6330.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
這270億全部都是用舉債來做支應那在這個特別條例裡面是有排除所謂的單一年度的流量的限制但是在實施期間仍然要符合這個整個期間的一個總流量的管制所以是沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6330.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6347.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個部分因為這個是一個非常重要的而且對於這個國民的安全生命財產的安全很重要所以這個部分是用舉債來做支應而且又納入這個特別預算但是仍然要受債務控管的一個管制受債務控管在這裡我想請教內政部部長如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6350.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6377.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我們用什麼樣的一個項目可以去取代代收代付的方式因為你中央你是用核實補助嘛那回到的地方是代收代付那你什麼樣的項目是絕對不能用代收代付的方式呢部長我們可能會尊重那個主計跟會計單位的說法吧因為所謂的強化監督機制就是怕說是不是裡面在招標的過程當中會有弊案 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6378.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6395.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我們在中央的部分以我們這次災後重建是下水道的部分我們一定會強力監督部長我想你講得非常的清楚我是不是請教主計總長就是說這一個項目什麼樣的一個項目就是說你不可以用代收代付來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6398.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6415.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
一般如果是緊急或災害的一個項目或者是他配合中央這種重大的政策一定時間完成的這個部分我們就可以用代收貸付那代收貸付等於是中央要負責審核的一個責任這個責任在誰身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6415.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6431.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
在地方政府還是在中央政府地方政府是負責執行但是部會他如果補助他的會計人員要進行審查這樣子他的核銷相關的核銷要回到部會來做審查就回到部會來做審查是 代收代付的部分大部分是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6432.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6461.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那這樣子我再請教謝謝主席長我再請教我們工程會主委對於線上工程的一個看板這個我們有辦法做到了就是說地點那個標案的名稱得標的廠商得標的金額我們相信這個是比較簡單的可是工程進度的一個百分比還有議定實施日這個其實基本上就是說你可以不可以同時納入第三方公正單位的查核的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6462.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6478.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們可以確保重建的品質是不會加速因為加速而被犧牲的所有的公共工程大概5000萬年執行5000萬年以上工程會都有專案列管那會定期去查核會定期去查可是如果沒有超過5000萬呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6480.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6499.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
機關自己查核機關自己查那你們有沒有把握就是說在這一次花蓮縣政府他就是說五千萬以下那讓機關自己查會不會出現什麼疲弱呢這次的特別預算大概都全部中央在執行那有些補助農業部的補助是透過地方的農會或縣政府的農會處去造冊 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6501.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6528.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那其中大概有一部分跟下水道或這個污水處理有關的會補助給地方政府來執行不過也超過五千萬好 主委那我在這裡再特別請教就是說主計長還有財政部長還有工程會主委就是說你們公開的記報跟會計的監督有沒有辦法用統一的一個格式有沒有辦法這樣來執行統一的格式 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6529.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6544.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我們過去特別預算執行的往例是每一季會由主計總署向大院來報備是 是用報備的方式就是備查就是每一季都會執行情形都會向大院來報備 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6545.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6557.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
所以就是說基本上在這一次這個270億我們也可以用相同的一個模式相同的一個方式的一個監督我們也願意這樣子做啦好 那個主計長有沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6560.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6584.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
這個部分我們是每一季都會做統計這個部分但是有時候工程進度和實際付款進度是不太相同這兩個還是有落差這個我們也會顯現出來好 那財政部部長來統一的格式我想這個部分我們一定用制式的格式對債務舉借的部分執行情況用制式的格式來做表達好 謝謝 謝謝大家謝謝主席好 謝謝我們那個委員接下來請李崑哲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6596.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6602.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
謝謝召委 請一下交通部陳彥博次長 工程會陳英德主委好 次長好馬太安溪橋是花東台九線的重要的交通橋樑那 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6622.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6636.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這一次交通部公路局編列了42億8千萬元來作為馬太安溪橋搶修及復建的工程經費另外也補助花蓮縣政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6637.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6661.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
作为道路桥梁相关的这些经费的这些抢修的经费马太安溪桥大概是35亿元包含道路及桥梁的整修相关的包含光复 凤林这几个乡镇的道路桥梁也编了4亿3千万相关的进度是如何来说明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6663.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6685.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我想分兩塊有關馬太安溪橋的相關的分成三個階段一個是涵管的變道涵管的變道因為前些時候大概有一些損毀所以又再一次的修復原則上我們是朝著這個月的25號是不是可以讓它完成來通車另外還有一個所謂的鋼變橋鋼變橋的部分我們預計在明年的1月31號來完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6690.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6694.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那長期的復建的一個橋樑我們希望在115年的年底北上線能夠來通車當時的北上線通車的時候就可以雙向通行然後再來再過個半年希望能夠把這個南下線也一併完成這是有關在公路局 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6708.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6732.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
負責的這個修復的部分那至於補助地方縣市政府的部分那是由地方縣市政府提出相關的一個修繕的一個路段計畫那由我們東分局來做審查公路局交通部所負責的部分必須全力的搶修儘早的恢復花蓮鄉親朋友的日常正常的一個生活的機能那我請教一下工程會工程會在每季都會盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6734.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6758.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
沒有依規範來維修的這些橋樑到2025年的第三季結束預期未維修的橋樑我們來看U等於4的有22座中央2座地方政府20座U等於3的有423座中央有20座地方政府有403座 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6762.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6780.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
U等於4是安全平等中是屬於需要立即補強的一個等級那U等於3是必須在一年內來完成相關的維修及補強那22座橋樑目前是處於要立即進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6782.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6798.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
補強但是他現在卻是預期的一個危險狀態那有423座橋樑其實是養護不足的這樣的一個情形那我請教一下工程會你如何去督促中央級地方來加強橋樑的這些養護來請說明一下橋樑的檢測跟維護當然是主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6804.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6832.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
工程會的角色是要去盤點要去了解各機關有沒有按時去檢測有沒有依檢測結果比方說U4 U3去進行改善那麼工程會都有持續去督導跟查核那對於如果機關未依這個規定來進行比方說可能有的要改建或者是要整修的工程會會單獨針對這些機關特別發函要求他們改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6833.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6836.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
好 陳元柏次長來簡單再補充說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6837.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6843.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我跟委員報告一下有關縣市的老舊橋樑在屬於交通部所要負責縣市裡頭跟委員報告一下所有的各縣市對於橋樑的檢測大概都有按照這種方式來做幾乎達到百分之百但是至於剛才這裡特別提到大於3 4要做修復的這部分我們是透過每一年的縣市的一個考核養護考核裡頭去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6866.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6880.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
如果有這些橋樑要修復的部分沒有做我們會督促他做另外有部裡頭公路局有相關的經費來補助他們每三年大概15億的經費這是很重要的一個環節相關的橋樑不管是必須立即性的補強維護或是一年內必須要加強維護的這些作為全國還有那麼多的橋樑這個對人民的生命財產保障是非常大的衝擊必須加緊相關的一個措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6896.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6920.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我认为工程会应该跟交通部还有运营所以及各县市政府要加强合作我们必须要依照它的风险的一个程度构造的形式地理的位置甚至是交通的流量以及既有的结构等等来建立分级以及养护的一个制度来建立这种养护的履历来 陈彦博你简单说明一下目前的作为 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6922.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6947.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我想跟委員報告一下工程費當然是整個人匯整那其實在橋樑下來主管機關包含交通部內政部等等的都有負責要去督導的縣市跟他所要督導的橋樑那這一部分剛才我也特別提到尤其是對於U等於4的這個要立即要修復的部分我們會透過縣市的督導然後而且相關經費的補助請他儘速的完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6950.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6976.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那至於U大於3的部分U等於3是要一年內修復那這個我們也會跟縣市政府來加強陳主委 我一直認為工程會是必須要領頭來建立小組以及相關的審查程序你各單位 各維護單位它要提供人力以及物力的相關的協助工程會都有在進行甚至最近也在研議關於檢測方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6978.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7006.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
不同的检测方法可能会导致不同的判断不同的检测我们还是要加强高科技的这些巡检的状况空拍机或者是AI影像的辨识技术或者是大数据的模型等等来提高巡检的一个效率就是比较接种一些设备好 那我们这个都会全力的支持也必须要积极的加强这些相关桥梁的维护来保障人民的生命财产安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7007.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7009.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
好 謝謝李昆哲委員接下來請鍾嘉斌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7027.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7038.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
主席 在場委員先進列席了政府經濟上官員會場工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請行政院陳主席長 財政部莊部長以及經濟部的賴次長經濟部賴次長 請委員好主席長好部長好 還有我們次長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7051.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7073.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
來 主席長我們明年度的預算規模支出是超過3兆是好 請問財政部長我們的稅務是不是2.8兆是的身為我們國家的財政大臣你覺得這樣的要求有這樣的稅務會不會有點吃力這樣的稅務其實因為明年的稅務會減少主要因為在我只問你簡單回答就好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7076.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7096.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
你們知道嗎 目前我們預算當中我請教次長 賴次長你覺得我們經濟建設的預算較多還是這三張預算佔最大數的是什麼明年的總預算最大宗的正式別水利 社福 還是什麼沒辦法回答 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7100.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7124.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
國防支出將近9500億足足比去年多了比前一年多了1000塊800億將近逼近我們GDP的3.32那你覺得國人支持嗎主席長我們的民意調查一半的國人支持這裡面大部分的國防預算在過去的年度當中從2000年以來有四位總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7126.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7141.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
這四位總統當中我們看到有編國防預算特別預算的有誰 陳水扁總統當時編了六千億但是沒有被國會接受蔡英文總統任內編了快五千億通過了 是不是這樣子是 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7141.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7163.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
可見過去從2000年以來這四位總統陳總統重視國防蔡總統重視國防國會有支持那接下來我們的特別預算是編什麼我們來看一下我們來猜猜看來 請教蔡次長你覺得過去的幾任總統對哪個部門比較重視救災還是振興經濟還是國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7166.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7173.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
台灣因為地理位置的關係所以我們需要水利的建設很好 我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7174.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7199.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
李登輝總統的時候遇到921特別預算800億陳水扁總統我們有三個治水預算對不對賴市長其中呢防疫紓困也佔了500億也是遇到了天災或一些事情振興經濟花了5000億馬英九總統裡面都在做振興建設災後重建還保留了兩項治水預算是不是所以治水過去是我們的主軸再往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7201.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7225.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
來 我們看蔡英文總統之後結果遇到COVID-19有防疫紓困就佔了一半 快一半國防開始出現了振興經濟也加了三分之一兩兆六千億主席長我們的特別預算從李登輝總統的八百億到陳水扁總統的七千多億到了馬英九總統的八千多億一下到蔡總統變成了兩兆六 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7226.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7236.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
您覺得特別預算對我國家的一個財政有沒有產生一個很大的一個部門還是很大的壓力我們怎麼有辦法編出這麼多的特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7237.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7256.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
將近我們明年的稅數的規模了嘛 是不是這樣蔡總統半年任內我們的稅數規模也不到三兆嘛 對不對可是八年的特別預算就將近是一年的總預算所以可以說蔡總統做了八年的總統用了九年的預算規模 可不可以這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7257.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7274.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
好 那國家財政 莊部長那國家財政能夠支持嗎為什麼那時候蔡總統做8年的總統可以用到9年的年度總預算規模我有幾項特別預算非常重要像前瞻基礎建設計畫因為這樣的一個帶動經濟成長 稅收成長所以我們有多餘的錢就去還債所以整個財政運氣很好那你覺得未來我們還有蔡總統這8年的黃金時光可以再去支撐同樣規模的特別預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7286.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7305.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
如果這樣的一個在現在這樣情況而這個錢如果不是做最好的運用的話那沒有辦法帶動經濟成長所以說我們來看一下賴總統不到兩年我們就用了7000億的特別預算了大家來想想看接下來我們還有哪些錢要花往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7307.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7321.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
有治水有防疫有災害重建有紓困振興有建設發展還有國防還有關稅衝擊還有哪些國家的重大問題需要特別預算還是公務預算就可以支應是要中央調度還是要地方支出主席長你認為呢要用特別預算公務預算還是中央來調度還是地方支出未來這些事情有沒有可能地方來出錢不可能對往下看這些事情不可能地方來出錢但是我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7338.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7364.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
憲法規定第十章到第十三章社會福利是地方的一半事項目前我國的社會保險誰在出錢我們來看一下李登輝總統時候的公保虧損七百多億他手上就要撥補完成接著我們各後來的總統總共撥了四千三百六十億加起來最後加上未來的七百億會高達五千八百億這些錢是地方出還是中央出 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7367.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7396.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
目前是誰出 主席長這是誰在出波普的錢是誰出的中央的預算還是地方的預算波普的錢是中央在出中央出的好我們來看現在我們有就職的公教退休有公務人員退府有勞保 國保跟農保這些除了三個後面社會保險由中央政府 由政府負最終責任之外這兩個退府基金其實基本上他要設法自己去 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7397.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7398.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
去填補對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7428.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7451.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
這20兆的潛藏負債財政有沒有辦法支應這個部分確實是基於社會安全保險起伏是未來的一個潛藏負債是的 那我現在問一下主席長那個財化法之後我們現在地方拿走那麼多錢中央有能力去負擔這20兆的潛藏負債嗎往下看這個是有困難的困難的嘛現在再修的財化法要再舉債560億5600億5600億 對有沒有超過公債法上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7457.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7480.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
有沒有辦法執行政府能違法嗎所以這個部分如果沒有縮減那縮減要縮減哪些項目這就是一個問題所以我說我們現在在省特別預算我們特別預算恐怕財化法被二修之後中央政府再也沒有能力透過特別預算來支應我們現在這270億的天災的一個補救了 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7483.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7502.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
所以在這裡呢 要提醒行政院裁判法 院版的裁判法要堅持到底不然的話 未來中央的財政惡化潛藏的負債沒辦法支持未來也沒有能力用特別預算來補足天災應變的這些能力組長同意嗎是部長同意嗎沒有錯好 謝謝好 謝謝鍾嘉賓委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7512.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7515.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好 接下來請李燕秀委員質詢謝謝召委我是不是可以邀請經濟部的長賜以及工程會的陳主委好 陳主委好 委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7542.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7561.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
長賜主委好今天我要借因為你們兩個都在財務會今天來到財務會我要借一個議題今天你們兩個在質詢一個問題有關於生威能源商業的爭議這兩天我看到新聞媒體有在報導這件事情發展到現在的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7562.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7584.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
是政府輸 業者也輸而且也影響民眾對於再生能源的看法當然對於我們台灣未來發展再生能源當然也會有一定的衝突我想請問部長常志到目前為止深威其實在今年6月18號第二季其實已經發布因為他是上市三位公司他就發布了重訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7585.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7604.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
离岸风电的建制成本大幅的提高不管是俄乌的战争海象的问题或者是原料的上涨等等有很多问题我想不用在这边赘述经济部在这一段时间之内到底做了哪些事情来排解台电跟厂商的争议 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7604.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7629.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
因為這件事情發展到現在的結果大家都不願意看到我們台灣發展再生能源是輸的很多業者未來本來有機會投入幫台灣再衝一下把綠能再生能源提高這是國家政府政策重要目標但是現在看起來因為很多不可抗力的因素沒關係 因為後面要送工程會去做調解但看起來是三輸業者輸 政府也輸然後民眾對這個看法也有問號 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7633.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7654.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
勝威公司依照同胞的合約承攬台電公司離岸風電二期的部分有關於工期或是預算或是因為工資提高的關係經濟部在不管是契約的協調協處的過程現在是已經送到工程會來做調解 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7654.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7656.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
6月18 現在都已經11月了 12月了要送工程會 工程會怎麼判沒關係因為工程會是獨立專業的單位 我們尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7665.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7690.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
但是已經拖了四五個月在上面繞這個是造成現在山蘇最轉圓你們經濟部做了什麼沒有 我們針對李岸峰第二期的工程針對他在施工中獲得的一些的困難我們經濟部有協調 這是第一點第二點 針對於這個契約的這個履約的爭議在送工程會之前因為它涉及的事項相當的多所以經濟部有先去做履約爭議的協處的一個作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7693.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7705.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
協處了幾次有結果嗎因為這個協處的結果兩方的這個差距還是相當的所以決定送工程會 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7706.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7732.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我覺得那個我尊重後面沒有共識競速的送工程會因為工程會畢竟是獨立單位趕快讓工程會有一個結果出來我尊重工程會後續的結果但是要加快腳步因為現在看起來就是三書那我要請問陳主委工程會陳主委目前對於這些案子調解或建議的方向工程會的方向是什麼大概什麼時候會有結果出來本案他們已經到工程會申請這個理業正義調解 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7734.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7756.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以在申訴委員會裡面也派調解委員因為現在看起來速度不快就是說工程會調解的結果是什麼我們不介入但是必須要盡快的去進入 趕快後面排序其中有一部分已經同意和解了就是關於顧願款保留款這一部分已經和解了那剩下價金跟工期還在調解當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7758.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7786.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
沒有關係就是沒有辦法有共識你們就盡速的開會有一個結果出來否則Pending在那邊是造成刪除這是我主要問今天問題的原因時間先暫停三位請回我是不是可以請主席長跟環境部今天沒有來稍微今天也沒有衛福部有 環境部有都有是不是那請環境部跟衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7788.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7804.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
環境部是那個主席長那個無論是剛才大家提到特別預算我還是要提醒一下特別預算好用他可以年度很長他可以沒有公債法的限制但是跟財化法是兩回事情所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7806.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7825.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
這件事情我們後續還有機會再討論我今天還是要回到有關於兩次風災之後我知道這一次兩次風災之後我們有編列在環境部有編列災後廢棄物的清理跟災後疾病防治的部分我也關注到環境部對於環境的消毒預算編列了4億9500萬左右的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7829.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7847.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
但是我們都知道每次風災過後都可能有病沒聞的滋生都有可能有感染疾病主席長你知道為什麼這一次衛福部沒有編列相關的預算嗎對於疾病的防治還是他們覺得公務預算來指引就夠了有編嗎 來衛福部回應我 有沒有編 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7850.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7865.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
包委員我們這次其實主要是針對這一個在災區那邊的一些診所他們裡面他們也有受損總共大概有10家然後這裡面有一些相關的一些器材你不用編預算喔萬一如果造成重大疾病的感染 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7866.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7880.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我們現在目前有關於這個部分有關於你不要跟我講有關於疾病防治的部分你不要跟我講現在有關因為現在無論是流感就是說我們現在對於疾病的防治我們公務預算有現在因應現在流行感染疾病的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7881.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7899.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
風災這是特別加進來的你就這麼有自信就不會有重大疾病的傳染 感染你不用另外再編一筆預算框在裡面去應付這些重大風災並沒有人能支撐譬如說現在是重大登革熱流行的期間你應該去編列一筆預算放在裡面去做支應嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7901.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7920.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
这是第一点我要提醒你的地方你这个是放弃放弃阉割自己预算编列的权利第二个灾后的疾病的防治的重大责任你应该编列一笔你现在我们在流行A流 B流感那个都有公务预算要去支应是 报告委员我们在CDC这边都有编列相关的预算 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7921.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7944.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
所以这个就是卫福部的疏忽但是我要提醒环境部我要提醒环境部因为我们已经两次大的风灾我觉得你们现在对于病媒纹滋生都是清除为主 喷药为辅那现在针对于灾后疾病防治的目标有没有把握能够提升病媒纹滋生还有包括烈能的就是说烈管辅导的量呢有没有其他新的做法可以处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7946.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7954.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
病沒穩的資深這個我們還是你們現在都是不斷的噴藥噴藥噴藥嗎不是 循道清刷啦資深遠的清楚是最重要的不是噴藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7956.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7976.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
有沒有更進一步的做法有沒有其他更好的做法或國際間有沒有其他的做法可以處理因為現在看起來面對極端氣候的挑戰大風災雖然我們不樂意見但是我覺得對於病媒文資深量能的管理跟列管我們應該有更好的做法跟方法才對你有沒有其他的方式可以處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7977.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8002.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這我們再參考看你沒有想到的方法所以這件事我今天問這個議題是凸顯出來主席長下次要編列這樣子的預算如果有我希望沒有我覺得衛福部跟環境部就是疏忽了在這一塊無論是疾病的防治或者管理病媒體的管理或疾病的防治都沒有編列相關的預算我們在環境經理有編預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8003.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8021.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我知道啦但是我說你的量能跟你的量能跟輔導列管跟親屬的部分有沒有更進一步的其他的做法我覺得現在面對極端氣候政府不能只有我過去怎麼做我現在就怎麼做我覺得應該與時俱進有更多不同的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8022.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8045.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們才看到一個政府AI政府進步行動政府進步的做法才對而不是跟過去都一樣我們過去不知道也會有艷澀湖這麼大的一次一大風災然後這麼多人投入那後面有可能產生的短期的疾病我覺得這要有不同的做法來列管那我非常遺憾這一次我們沒有看到環境部有進步的做法我更沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8046.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8058.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
衛福部在這一塊編列相關的預算否則如果是大疾病的傳染的話你會排擠到我們一般公務預算去做疾病的管制跟防疫以上 謝謝好 謝謝李用歇委員接下來請賴銳龍委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8072.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8082.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
好 謝謝主席我先請原民會主委還有經濟部次長好 請曾主委還有賴次長還有交通部陳次長好 交通部陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8087.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8107.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我想我先關心一下高雄有三個原民區其實是它的在幾次的風災都受到很重創很大的一個影響特別是道路很多道路中斷甚至於導致甚至有時候形成一個孤島的一些狀況所以這個也是要請包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8108.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8135.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
原民會甚至於包括交通部經濟部甚至農業部能夠大力來支持讓這些原鄉的區域的建設早日來恢復那當然裡面影響當然最重要交通啦因為交通不通的話幾乎是進出非常不方便所以這個東西要加速來完成那我第一個是不是也先請教一下這個民生橋的部分已經開始預定什麼時候來開工交通部說明還是在原民會說明交通部來陳次長好了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8139.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8166.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
跟委員報告一下有關這裡頭的這個民生橋目前正在規劃中預定明年開工嗎是明年什麼時候開工明年應該是2月的時候明年2月開工然後預定2027年完工是不是對我希望次長還是能夠請加快速度因為這個民生橋每次只要遇到好大雨颱風來的話那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8168.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8188.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
原來的舊的橋面就幾乎是水會整個我相信各位都去看過幾乎整個會蔓延過來那個橋就沒辦法通行因為通行很危險你一旦通行的話有可能就橋一旦被沖斷的話馬上就有人員會傷亡所以那個橋幾乎被封掉那封掉之後就形成孤島裡面的說的納瑪夏的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8189.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8207.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
鄉親就全部形成是被困在裡面所以這個及早完成新的民生橋的時候這就能夠及早讓族人能夠出來的時候更安全所以我希望這一個能夠加速因為明年的2月動工如果2027年能夠提前來完工的話在 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8208.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8227.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
汛期期間能夠提前來完成的話那就有機會不管是遇到颱風或遇到好大雨的時候他們就避開了這個可能整個被封鎖甚至於成為孤島的一個效應避免這樣的狀況的發生好不好 這個請次長這邊能夠來加速我們再跟 我再跟公路局討論一下如何來加速反應 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8228.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8245.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
行政的程序上面請你們盡量加速工程上也請你們盡快找到好的廠商之後然後加快來完成這對當地的進出不然每次只要遇到好大雨一旦孤島效應封橋了以後完全無法進出這對於當地的居民是相當大的一個影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8247.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8259.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
再來是其他的很多的道路工程我看很多幾乎也都要到2026年底來才能夠來完成這個也是能不能請次長也能夠來加速 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8262.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8289.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
是 我想委員特別提到的這些我再來跟公路局包括那馬下 包括桃園其實都是幾乎我看了一下所有的給我的答案幾乎都是多數都是在2026年的年底前完成對 但我還是希望能夠次長再開個會議一下由你親自來開了好不好然後把相關單位找來也問一下了解一下每一個狀況的進度如果能夠 特別是 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8290.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8303.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
就是就族人的使用上面比較迫切需要的能夠提前來完成的話那對於他們都有相當大的一個注意好嗎好 這個請次長來召開一下好嗎是 沒問題那召開的結果也讓我知道一下是 好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8305.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8327.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
接下來我也請教一下裡面當然包括原名的水保包括農路這有些涉及到農業部的部分我也想要確定一下包括這些相關的經費的部分都是確定的嗎農業部要不要也一起這個水土保持跟農路的經費的部分這個是不是都已經是確定的來 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8333.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8361.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
裡面涉及到納瑪下 涉及到茂林 涉及到桃園的部分跟委員報告就是有關於高雄您所關心的高雄地區的那個水保的計畫那當初地方那個高雄市政府編出來的部分那行政院這邊已經核列了那核列的部分當然有些是不夠的部分那不夠的部分我想我們會用其他的年度的這些水保的相關的計畫去支持所以這邊總數大概6.1億的部分都會給予支持嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8363.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8391.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
前面4.2億跟農路的1.9億的部分因為這兩次的這幾次的豪大雨跟颱風其實對於原鄉三個原鄉造成很大的影響那也希望能夠全力來支持因為我們特別有特別預算然後也特別我剛才說過的就是說在丹納斯這邊撥補給地方政府的部分那這個部分如果不夠的時候我們會年度的這些相關的計畫來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8392.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8410.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
所以會盡量去滿足這邊的需求那請部長就全力來支持這些預算是那最後再請教一下我們這個有防災省的治水的部分這個是不是也請包括51.68億甚至於縣市河管區排的等等有5億包括老榮溪的0.5億的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8412.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8440.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這個是經濟部跟農業部嗎對 整體自然防洪的部分是由農業部來負責這個部分我想我們也會來協助這個也會支持51.68億的部分也會給予支持我希望部長因為這幾個都是涉及到比較需要的我知道因為那邊有很多大規模崩塌跟土石旅行自治區所以我們會特別重視這個地方因為上次我去看那個現場整個幾乎整個下來了整個幾乎土石完全下來如果不去做一些治水防洪的處理的話未來還是會持續的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8441.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8446.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
了解 好不好好 謝謝 謝謝各位部長 謝謝市長謝謝賴日龍委員接下來請陳庭飛委員質詢謝謝主席我們請經濟部跟農業部賴市長還有陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8467.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8489.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
然後待會兒還有交通部我想因為時間很短我們就委員長邀請上來 謝謝我想先問經濟部就是說我們不論是我們這一次花蓮馬太安溪艷色湖的一個特別預算或是丹納斯的特別預算其實有一個重點就是我們的韌性電網 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8490.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8501.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
很重要的就是我們的電力如何去加強那這個部分如果在我們特別預算結束之後下一步不是只做這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8503.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8527.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
下一步針對電網的強振工作台電公司除了持續進行之外那我也請能源署針對於微電網的這些規劃要持續來辦理因為如委員所說特別條例只有一段時間是啊特別條例要處理的是受災區的對 災區那其他而且災區我必須說我們台南有兩三千基的電條但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8530.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8545.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
你在這一次特別預算你完全沒有辦法你只有在主幹線才有辦法他在接進去的時候你是完全沒有辦法支應的那這怎麼辦他還是脆弱的啊在這一次倒了之後他還是脆弱的啊那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8546.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8570.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我們針對電感的加強的部分除了用一型的電感來做加強之外針對沿海區域或是說縱向的省道的部分適合去做地下化的部分我們會來做是沒錯 你地下化做完再主幹線我知道 可是你再拉進去這一次是主幹線再到支幹線其實這一次都倒得非常嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8571.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8577.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那在自幹線這一次的預算是沒辦法支應的連主幹線都沒辦法完全支應 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8579.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8606.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
在地下化的一個程度當中所以勢必我們在下一個階段一定要再編預算不預算的部分那這怎麼辦到底是台電要編台電每次要編就說我都虧錢沒辦法可是這個有一次我們的丹納斯已經給你提醒了提醒了老天爺給我們提醒了如果我們再不做下一次可能會更嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8608.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8630.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
市長 市委已經三聲五令了 要拜託謝謝委員提醒到底要怎麼去處理我也跟我們卓院長也請託過一定要一個方向 有一個專案到底是經濟部要處理還是台電要處理我們一定在特別預算之後一定要一個方向好 這個部分再拜託好 謝謝委員知道我們再拜託農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8633.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8655.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
來 我也好部長 我想我們這一次所有山區的丹那斯還有所有在農漁業的損害都超出我們這一次我們特別預算所以如果我們報上來的跟我們現在所核准的大概是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8658.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8679.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
用特別預算我們台南市政府報上來給我們農業部的我跟委員先報告就是當初在颱風來了以後有公共公眾委員會有跟地方政府提報他們所需要的總共是76.8而已這個部分不同的縣市裡面但是第二輪他們再報出來的時候會增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8680.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8699.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那我們現在先從第一輪的部分先合第二輪的不夠的部分我們就用年度的本預算去支持因為如果我知道是你們大概合給台南的大概也只有一半而已啦差不多啦就是那些災損我是說要復建的我們台南這邊是幾乎全部了 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8699.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8716.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
沒有 有一些在我們那個緊急災損的部分我現在講的就是說因為當初由地方政府報出來的部分我們幾乎百分之百支持但是有一部分是不是當初地方政府報出來的部分是另外再增加的部分因為他有兩次啊我們就用本預算去支持可是第一階段說真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8723.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8738.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
重點是在後面所延伸出來的這個我知道因為委員的關心那我剛才說的就是第一件事政府編預算的時候76.82億那其他的並沒有編經費我們就用年度的本預算去支持用年度本預算我們年度本預算有這麼多錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8739.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8753.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
沒有 不夠的因為有的是規劃有的是第二年在執行的部分我們再來協助這樣子好 再拜託因為這個其實已經造成人民的恐慌了因為大家都擔心如果再下一個丹納斯類似來到台南怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8755.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8772.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
所以大家會害怕了解好 這部分再拜託部長會 我們會來處理那我們拜託那個交通部我一直強調我在昨天也有跟我們院長做報告部長做報告這個部分確實是非常重要的就是我們土石流造成 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8773.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8798.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
車子損害的部分我們的這個花蓮馬太安西燕澀湖的特別預算是有的但是我們丹納斯是沒有的好這個部分我再一次拜託我們市長因為在省域中還是要提到否則大家會覺得有一個落差那我再一次強調我們不期待說哇那個像 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8799.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8811.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那個花蓮的特別預算補助那麼多可是你總是要讓我們覺得說我們不要有被剝奪感都沒有 你看花蓮有 台南的沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8812.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8835.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
人民的感受不一樣所以這個拜託次長這個一定要趕快人民才會銜接上來尤其今天已經在審特別預算然後馬上就會協商如果過了那個感受又會更不一樣所以到底我們對於丹納斯我們台南這些好大雨的泡水車怎麼處理再拜託次長回去跟我們部長報告一下謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8836.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8848.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
是 是 我們來朝這個方向來研究好 謝謝陳廷飛委員我們在這個張志倫委員質詢完畢休息十分鐘接下來我們請林月琴委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8857.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8861.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
主席麻煩我們的交通部次長跟衛福部次長好 請陳次長還有衛福部呂次長呂次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8874.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8890.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
上早 因為交通領域也是我很關心的核心之一尤其是災後重建的交通接駁對當地的民眾事實上是非常的重要在聯合國減少災害風險辦公室也提出這樣的一個支持的論述 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8891.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8910.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
所以就先來問一下花蓮災後很多居民都跟我們反映說光復鄉的住民要進出偏遠部落或到市區接駁車就很不足影響到看診 上學 物資運送基本生活都受到影響市長目前你掌握狀況是什麼地方的政府有解決了嗎交通部又是怎麼協助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8913.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8931.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
我想跟委員報告一下有關那個地方接駁的這件事情我們有所謂的公共運輸的發展一個計畫在那個計畫裡頭我們大概對於偏鄉的或者是這種有災民地區需要接駁的我們有相關的一個計畫在做補助或推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8931.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8956.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以這一部分我想公路局大概會跟花蓮縣政府再來討論一下看是不是有這樣的一個輸運上的一個缺口那如果有這個缺口的話該如何來補強我想他們會來我要補充說明因為地方人士來跟我反映說現在的交通接駁的資源盤點根本沒有做好所以造成有資源送進去卻不知道怎麼合理配置甚至現在的交通運輸是靠臨時動之沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8959.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8979.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
編列常態的預算假如哪一天預算用完了就會交通斷吹居民當然不安所以我想問市長這邊是不是願意協助先把運輸補助做完整的先做資源盤點而且把列入為花蓮馬太安西堰塞湖的那個災後重建特別條例的300億的特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8982.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8995.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
像我跟委員報告一下在災害來臨的時候相關的接駁是有在辦理的那這部分呢我想我們會持續來看怎麼樣繼續來在這段期間來辦理那至於說後續如何來補強這部分呢剛才我也特別提到會請那個應該是我們的北區吧北區監理所跟花蓮縣政府再討論不要再為交通煩惱了謝謝次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9010.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9010.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
市長請回接下來我們的衛福部市長這次花蓮的災情事實上是 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9018.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9043.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
鋪落一個非常嚴重的問題就是台灣部分縣市都還沒有建立健全的長照避難體系因為如果有的話最後罹難者最多的應該不會是長者最嚴峻的事實是獨居的高齡者跟重度障礙者在災難面前的最先受到傷害的人就是這群人現在宜蘭也傳出了有長者在水災當中不幸罹難在這個代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9044.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9071.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
的問題不是個案的失誤而是整體制度的沒有到位所以我們不能等地方政府栓緊螺絲我認為中央要有更積極的作為是 沒錯所以次長 針對花蓮的問題我先講兩個事實第一個 連最基本的撤離通知都沒有做到不是每位長者都有收到細胞簡訊更不用說撤離動線 撤去哪裡第二 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9072.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9097.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
後送安置配套亂成一團 完全沒有標準流程我們先不談個案 我要問的是會不會對這次災後中央跨部會協作以及促進督促我們地方政府改善的具體作為在哪裡包委員 我們現在目前大概有兩個主要的一個做法其實就整個蘇珊的那部分 還有那個撤離的部分基本上還是屬於地方政府的權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9097.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9111.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這點我一定要強調當然就是說在這邊這個中央政府作為我們整個督導我們當然是責無旁貸那我跟委員報告我們現在目前大概就是也感謝大院這邊的一個支持我們的兩年之內我們現在有編了62億就是針對整個所謂獨居長輩獨居的這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9114.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9140.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
為什麼我這樣問因為我手上有個正反對照的最清楚的例子高雄三區的行政區那馬下和桃園跟茂林 颱風來時的就很快的預防性的撤離不是等下大雨才跑優先去撤離我們的孕婦高齡者行動不便者高雄他這邊做得非常非常好非常迅速而確實所以我就要問你說台灣到底有沒有統一的長照身障者的避難體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9142.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9146.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那為什麼每個縣市執行起來落差很大高雄可以做 為什麼花蓮做成這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9149.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9172.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
所以就要希望你們接下來是不是能夠掌握地方政府就是要求地方政府要掌握優先通知 撤離名冊還有獨居的老人跟重度障礙者跟行動不便的那些人到底有沒有爆發進去你們要去檢視不能只有獨居長者到底誰負責敲門 誰負責疏散這個都要通體的去做規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9173.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9192.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
而且災後如果遇到醫療中斷的時候停電偏遠地區怎麼處理那中央應該要有一個先行預置醫療轉介跟安置的流程這個可不可以做得到中央這一塊包委員我現在能不能簡單那個三點說明第一個就是說有關獨居長輩這是屬於民政那我們這邊會來跟內政部這邊督導就整個那個村裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9196.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9212.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
第二個有關長照的部分主要是長照室長照室這邊我們會協同機構另外第三個剛剛委員剛剛所說的有一些有關於獨居但是或者說有一些整個行動不便的我們到時候會來跟醫事室這邊就地形醫院這邊謝謝次長因為我覺得這個問題都是很多地方的社福團體都很關心我也知道次長都有在處理那兩週內請正式回覆我們辦公室好的 非常感謝委員 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9224.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9229.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
好 我們謝謝林玉琴委員接下來請張志倫委員質詢好 謝謝主席 各位委員 各位官員早有請劉世芳部長好 請劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9256.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9281.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
委員好部長好部長針對這次馬太安溪的特別預算內政部在特別預算中編列28億主要負責災民相關最切身的家庭家園安置慰問金的發放跟基礎設施回復等關鍵項目主要就是要協助災民可以儘速重返正軌我想要先請教的是家園安置業務中編列3億 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9284.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9308.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
200萬元主要是要新辦中期安置站讓受災戶有一些中繼站可以居住因為現在今天很多委員都提到現在受災戶的數量大概是3000多戶我想要先請教一下目前來講中繼屋的安置數量以及中繼屋大概的預計時程是否可以讓這些受災戶可以安心居住 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9309.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9332.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
是 謝謝委員的關心我們針對這個中繼屋的部分目前在台塘這邊就是11加30那11的話可能年底之前就可以先完成那30的部分的話還要再一段時間但是在明年的春季之前應該比較沒有太大問題那我們目前的評估大概是150戶那最主要就是說也跟委員報告因為在這次的馬太安溪艷澀湖的這個災禍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9334.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9359.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
有些房子本來經過我們的耐震評估之後它是可以回去住的所以真正有需求的我們先從重災戶裡面先提出需求一戶一戶去拜訪他們謝謝好 所以大概重災的就是不能居住大概是約40戶然後未來會再建150戶我在想的跟這個部長請教的是為什麼3000多戶的受災戶裡面只有大概這麼少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9360.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9388.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
的住戶想要遷移的這樣子我們在這個訪談的過程是你們自己主動去跟受災戶請教的還是說還是你們自己有判定房屋的受損程度判定房屋的受損程度當然是跟地方政委一起合作目前因為他們如果清淤結束以後就回去可以安住的話大概就比較沒有太大的問題然後因為中基屋要建造的時候要請他們全部都搬出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9389.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9408.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
所以要他們馬上要離開這個光復鄉或者離開自己的住家確實有這個遷移上面的困擾所以我們事實上對於住戶或者是對於需要申請這個中繼屋的部分都有了解他們的意向才做這樣子的一個評估好 謝謝部長所以這邊我也很感謝大概第一線的救災員跟產值超人他們去把 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9409.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9430.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
很多災民的家裡給清掃完畢那當然那邊的住戶他們的當然他們的需求當然是希望可以回到自己的家園而不是住中繼屋那當然中央因為一些考量提供中繼屋我覺得是很重要所以我的意思就是說代表現在很多的災民他是回去去入住的這樣一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9431.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9452.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
所以這次在編列預算的時候其實中央其實就很需要去聽地方的一個聲音我這邊最重視很關心的就是有關於警察跟消防他們這邊他們當時在馬太恩西有關於潰堤的相關的部分他們是不是很多的相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9452.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9465.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
執勤的車輛比如說警車或是救災救護車是不是有損毀的一個狀況請問中央內政部這邊有沒有統整他們現在受災整個損毀的數量是多少那有沒有跟中央來請託說他們現在整個的狀況你們掌握的狀況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9469.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9493.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
有報告委員這兩個地方尤其是光復的部分我都有親自到那個地方去第一個他們的房舍現在的安全結構沒有太大問題所以如果在清淤跟清除的時候已經馬上做處理因為他們要馬上恢復警察跟消防的工作再來就是說個人的物品如果有受損包括機車 汽車我們也徵得公共工程委員會雖然戶籍不在那個地方還是會按照公共工程委所寬列的部分會予以補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9498.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9526.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
這個沒有太大問題我想要部長因為就我得知像光復消防分隊他們說因為受災的車輛破水受災經評估後無法修復所以他們想要把這些需要一些經費來做受損車輛的一些更換比如說消防水庫車跟消防勤務車三台這個水庫車三台勤務車兩台跟水箱車一台以及勤務機車四台是 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9528.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9554.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
这个部分的话是地方政府如果没有这样的资源来去做这个没有问题本来就是由消防署他们会全力来处理而且我们在那一天的时候署长已经告诉我说所以你们有掌握这样的资料说现在其实现场大型的消防车我们其实已经订购了因为这些损坏的部分现在是由谁来协助来做这些消防署有统整去做协助的地方所以会由消防署来做相关应的 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9554.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9570.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
而且那个进口的部分我们已经先定制了我想要请教部长当时您知道说为什么这些车辆会损毁是在救灾的路途上损毁还是因为当时没有及时的通报而在分队里面损毁大致上都在分队里面 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9571.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9587.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我想要請教部長的問題就是說當時我們第一時間在通知這些我們第一線的救災的人員的時候為什麼他們沒有辦法及時的把這些車子給疏散報告委員我們都了解消防分隊他們的主要工作要先出去救災 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9588.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9605.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
這次大部分都是土石流或是有水流過來所以消防的部分它是在救火所以事實上等於是先去外面救別人所以自己的分隊裡面才會有這麼大的災損我們完全能夠體諒所以如果有車輛受損的部分的話我們消防署會全力來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9606.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9629.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
所以部長意思是說我們已經出動了所有的能力可是還是造成這麼多在因為他們來不及去開出去而且因為大規模的土石淹過來的話車子也開不出去它其實最大的受損是裡面的整個的機具或者是馬達幾乎都進水或進沙那就拜託就是說如果是來不及來不及來救災的這個部分造成我們的車輛損毀的部分要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9630.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9652.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
委員不是這樣他們是來得及救災但是去救別人所以消防車輛是停在自己的這個消防那個光復裡面那因為進水跟進砂所以整個車輛毀損最大是在這邊外觀都還好但是裡面是進水跟進砂因為這個數量也是蠻多的那就拜託消防署這邊盡快來協助地方來把這些車輛補齊當然好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9655.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9660.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
好 謝謝張志倫委員 謝謝部長接下來請林俊憲委員感謝主席本席邀請我們主席長好 請陳主席長財政部長在嗎財政部 莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9678.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9688.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
委員好主委長好主委長請教現在財化法第二次又再修了一修二修越修越惡劣 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9689.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9708.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
那現在我們本會期就也開始即將進入預算的審查那包括中央和地方的預算都在審議當中因為地方議會現在也在審查地方政府的預算那這次的財務法修正案就要求明年度的總預算有很大一個改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9710.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9725.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那請問總預算要重編嗎可不可能重編會不會重編我們是也沒有能力的因為它超過公債法所以我們這個部分影響是真的很大那重編是有它的困難在所以這個部分我也要跟好那如果沒有辦法重編那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9729.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9750.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這就出現第一個問題因為這個部分我們預計禮拜四會提出財化法整的一個新的一個修正提到立法院裡面來那希望能夠通過這個立法院立法院能夠通過這個新的財化法讓我們整個一個整個縣市財政的一個分配更均勻然後整個一個支出就可以重新做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9751.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9773.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
就是要通過院版的這個裁判法才可以解決目前的這樣的一個僵局嘛你的意思是這樣子嘛因為現在的在野黨再修了第二次的裁判法那你變成他要求中央給地方的補助都不能再減少嘛那你之前就已經跟中央搶了4100多億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9777.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9792.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
4165億那這次又要求那你給地方的原本的補助5450幾億不能減少會增加2646億那所以造成你就必須要再舉債嗎因為我們現在舉債已經2992億然後再加上2646億就會舉債達到5638億那就會超過公債法的一個上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9800.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9814.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
公債法的比例是15%嘛你這樣一舉債 以後會到17%左右是不是這樣子是不是這樣子是那你就違反了公債法那現在怎麼辦第一個啊立法院啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9815.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9836.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
應該是要監督行政院要依法行政立法院結果訂一個法要逼行政院要違法施政這個實在是非常矛盾也造成現在的總算一個僵局如果要逼行政院來執行這樣的一個再修過的才化法那行政院怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9844.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9864.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
所以這個部分我們是沒有辦法再重編第一個沒辦法重編第二個行政院也不能違反公債法的舉債上限所以這兩點就造成目前的總預算的一個僵局所以我們還是要循憲政的救濟程序來救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9868.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9884.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
讓大家聽清楚 這個就是目前所謂總預算的一個僵局因為如果你破壞了公債法 超過那個局勢在上限你就違反了財政穩健原則 傷害了國家的財政而且那種行政院 那個立法院就逼行政院要違法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9892.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9918.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
再來像這一次的今年台灣其實不大平靜台南的南部的丹納斯颱風風災特別預算行政院編了600億那今天我們討論的馬太安溪的堰塞湖還有鳳凰颱風的風災前編了300億特別預算防治非洲豬瘟政府也趕快編了緊急預算來應付 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9921.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9934.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那未來的TO議場恐怕會變成常態像這樣子的話我們可以發現其實都需要中央出手來協助地方解決尤其是在財政方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9935.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9949.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
未來如果依照新的修正的財務法來實施啊那中央的現在財政被逼緊了被惹到破舍了那以後是不是可能啊如果來應付這樣緊急狀況會不會造成這個你行政院的財政編隊上你沒有辦法來應付 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9955.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9978.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
是 因為像那個馬太安 燕塞湖的部分我們事先資源就要27億然後非洲豬瘟資源也要30幾億然後我們又要編列4年1000億的一個治水的一個預算然後包括相關勞健保的一個撥補這對我們都造成很大的一個困難所以將來的預算籌備是沒辦法是非常困難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9981.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9981.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
林俊憲委員我們現在休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10031.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10031.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10612.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10615.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會 現在請陳清輝委員質詢謝謝主席 想請交通部次長好 請陳次長好 次長 您一邊走 我一邊說 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10635.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10650.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這個是以往我們花蓮你可以看到它每年的遊客非常多吸引了國內外尤其是外國人非常喜歡到太魯閣的這個步道但在0403的地震後我們發現這個步道的重建非常的漫長而且可能是長達數年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10654.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10675.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這個觀光人數也驟降到6.7萬人113年甚至連郵輪現在都不開到花蓮去了接著又發生了潰堤這樣子的事件所以我想先請教次長您對2025年也就是今年的最新的數據有沒有什麼掌握我們想知道跟113年比較是如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10679.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10693.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
因為現在已經11月了所以你可能對至少對上半年的數據有一些掌握沒有關係國際旅客你有嗎我跟委員報告下的國際旅客應該是來台的旅客人數在 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10708.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10716.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
今天找到目前為止大概有727萬人我講的是花蓮我們看一下這個圖看圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10723.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10739.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我們了解受到這個地震或者是最近的颱風的影響確實是它又起來又下來產生很大的一個變化就一度在地震後有一點復甦但是因為我們這個煙澀湖的事件然後又下來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10740.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10760.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我們在這邊當然也要為當地的災民居民請命他不一定是住災區但是他是從事旅宿業或者是觀光業更何況賴總統前一陣子說要做觀光國家隊我們現在就看到交通部有提出了一個旅宿1加1的方案這個你應該都很熟悉 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10760.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10781.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
就是我們去住兩個晚上的套裝行程可以4999民宿3800等等但這個有兩個缺點第一個是你們合作的這個沒有很有彈性就是在一個範圍之內然後限定的日期也很少比如說禮拜天到禮拜五這樣子那我們是在這邊具體想建議您 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10782.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10807.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
比如說以前你們曾經用過現金券甚至以前一個晚上可以一個人就補助一千塊的國旅所以他一個房間Maybe可以用到兩個人就抵兩個人是這樣子然後也開放一下時間因為他現在連週末他也非常的困難也非常的困難所以你是不是可以要用最簡便的方式來幫助花蓮的觀光業可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10810.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10835.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
是 我跟委員報告原則上對於花蓮觀光業的一個振興是交通部當然觀光署也是他們一直放在心上的所以剛才委員提到在目前為止這些方案大概都是跟花蓮觀光圈的業者大家共同討論出來的所以在這個年底之前大概會有剛才特別提到的這個什麼1加1的方案或者是這個什麼出產的 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10839.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10856.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
什麼花東的出產的一個幸福等等的這個方案在裡面的同時我們那裡頭有管理處他們也會辦理相關的一個活動來振興來吸引大家去至於委員剛才特別提到的是不是可以像往常有旅宿業的相關的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10858.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10884.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
這一部分我的了解是觀光署大概在明年它會有相關的在預算裡頭會去推動所謂觀光雙輪驅動的方案市長我可以一個月跟您要研擬的報告因為我們希望您的補助方案可以更有彈性我想這個方案我們請觀光署它正在研擬中如果出來了以後我們再送給委員參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10885.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10887.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
好 謝謝 下一個我們要請衛福部次長好 請呂次長次長在哪時間暫停一下呂次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10898.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10925.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
好 次長你一邊走我一邊說因為剛剛我有看到李燕秀委員她也質詢關於災區現在衛生條件比較差所以她會擔心一些病媒紋的傳染等等的今年我們有一些德政比如說我們開放產值超人啊新冠的流感的注射還有當地的災民甚至不用帶健保卡以及健保署呢他讓這個受災當月內六個月免繳健保費等等等等但 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10926.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10943.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
後來我們去看這個重建計畫很多都已經延伸到明年年底就表示一些房屋建築物的受損它可能不只是一年兩年的問題最慢可能兩年內才會重建完畢所以我們在明年15年一整年 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10944.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10972.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
还是有很多人他在比较艰困的环境下生活或者是要跟亲戚朋友们比较群聚密集的住在一起那我们在这边想一个月请你具体的研拟看看是不是可以把像这样子流感的疫苗延续下去六岁以上然后或者是成人住在灾区的那或者是年老的灾民会比较需要的肺炎炼酬菌啊以及这个小baby刚出生的轮状疫苗等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10973.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10998.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
是不是你有沒有辦法在一個月內研擬完成讓他們免於這些災區流行病學的威脅OK 非常感謝委員對於我們災民的關心我想這個部分我們可以帶回來研究我想這個也確實對於災民我想這個應該有些群聚的問題我想這個是非常好的一個提醒這個我們帶回去好 謝謝我希望今年做得好的東西明年可以繼續做因為他們還需要 謝謝OK 非常感謝委員謝謝主席 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11001.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11006.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
好 謝謝陳經惠委員接下來請楊瓊英委員自選謝謝主席 楊瓊發言邀請主席長好 請陳主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11027.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11043.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
委員好 主席長好主席長我們來討論今天行政院通過的花蓮馬太安溪的掩塞湖災後重建特別條例那麼我們的稅出是編出了270億當然全數是以舉債的方式來因應並且預留了30億待未來滾動式的檢討 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11054.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11070.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
是數字正確那針對於整個災後的重建那當然本席支持加速必須要趕快盡快恢復民生同時在基礎建設方面要能夠好好趕快做讓這個地方能夠恢復正常的一個運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11072.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11092.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
但是在我們知道現在可以說是全額舉債的財政壓力那我們預留了30億30億你有沒有特別指出那麼必須要做明確的指標以及你的審查機制來作為滾動式檢討的一個基本 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11093.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11112.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
如果沒有這些就等於是變成了第二語北京來 請做說明這目前沒有用到當然沒有用到 是預留嘛將來如果要用還要再透過編列特別預算的一個程序追加特別預算的程序來做然後還要送到貴院來審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11113.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11133.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那这个就是奔琪刚才所说的你没有办法正义使用对你如果没有一个基础的概念跟基础面那会弱化你整个主计总数的一个审核功能是所以这个部分他如果30亿有另外的需求他必须再提出需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11134.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11161.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
预算要办理追加追加预算审议通过之后裁列预算再送到贵会来审议而不是直接用二倍金的形态来支用不是就是主席长您所说的这绝对不能是以二倍金的这个概念因此在整个量化成果的指标跟你执行的门槛还有追加必要性的一个标准 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11161.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11180.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我想你們都有一定的步驟跟它的一個標準 是不是所以我們要希望借來的每一分錢都必須要用在災區上面真正的協助災民接下來本席要請工程會工程會 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11192.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11214.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
委員好主委你好委長到目前為止丹納斯颱風要超過了四個月了要超過四個月但是我們原因到底是什麼因為工整位你這樣延宕的原因是指向產權複雜沒有人居住或者是屋主他不願意修繕 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11217.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11231.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
而且你在這要求地方要逐戶調查他的意願簽署不同意修繕的文件但是我們知道在整個災後的這個重建它會攸關了公共的一個安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11232.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11256.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
如果我們只是僅止於在詢問的意願跟勸差的這個基礎那等於是把目前一直延宕到現在快四個月這樣子的一個災後治理的一個責任可以說是全數的下放所以在這樣的情況之下重建的進度當然是有制度性的一個停滯 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11257.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11264.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那它的風險呢可能會暴露到下一次的災害當中因為現在暖化的這個氣候讓我們不可預測到底會怎麼樣所以針對這樣子的樣態請教主委你們除了詢問意願之外那你要怎麼樣去建構 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11279.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11298.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
強制處理的一個程序如果有危害到公共安全的這個部分還有第二個你的跨機關的一個協助模式第三個以及你的時程的一個標準那麼以避免在我們整個災禍重建呢處於真空狀態 請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11300.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11328.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
報告委員 這次前進指揮所調集了全國大概300家的優良的這個關於承攬公共工程的廠商下去協助但是並不是無價的幫忙這個受損的這個房屋是要簽合約然後一定價格是來協助修繕所以剛剛本席說了你現在到現在已經超過了4個月那你的進度呢我們都已經做完了 全部都做完了 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11330.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11346.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
而且各區公所去詢問這些受診房屋要繼續這個協助你的就協助那你如果不協助了就不協助就是不需要修繕了不需要修繕其中很多樣態當然很多樣態就是本席說的如果有影響到公共安全的部分那你們怎麼處理呢這裡台南市政府有 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11353.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11381.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
这个依据建筑法可以处理依据台南市政府的自治条例你去测查好不好你去测查还有影响到公共那个是市政府那是市政府的业务所以要不然就停滞在那里没有停滞那这怎么办如果它有违公共安全或公共卫生本来就有一定的程序要求它改善不改善就拆除这一点也就是本席今天跟你讨论的有影响到公共安全的部分我们必须要去把它处置之这个限制法规有 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11382.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11405.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
对啊 法规有你要去执行之啊那是台南市政府要执行对啊 你的督导要去执行之啊这个台南市政府要去执行台南市政府要执行如果有这样的现象我们一定要督导去把它安全的一个不让它建筑法的主管机关是内政部影响到整个公共安这个公共秩序的一个安全嘛好 谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11408.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11415.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
好 謝謝楊淳英委員主委請回 接下來請張宏祿委員質詢我請內政部跟圓明會好 請內政部劉部長跟圓明會 曾主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11450.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11473.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
委員好部長跟主委我想請問一下我們這一次這個風災這一次我們有沒有要規劃中繼宅你是說馬太安溪的部分有預估是150戶那他們整個村大概有幾戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11475.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11490.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
整個村有幾戶我的意思是要直接說我們現在是整個村然後選一個地方蓋一個中繼宅還是說把原來住在這邊把它分散到好幾個中繼宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11491.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11495.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
沒有 我想跟委員報告一下就是我們針對原來撤離的1800多戶然後把重災區的部分先一戶一戶去拜訪那出來目前我們就是以11跟41戶的部分在台塘的地區先幫他們設中繼宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11510.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11524.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
因為其他的住戶的部分我們會先評估他回去居住有沒有安全上的問題也就是有沒有受到地震的影響這些所以大部分的住戶尤其是在比較街區的地方比較安全就是回去自己的家裡住因為大部分光復的災民都希望不要離開光復鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11529.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11556.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
對 我會特別問就是說像之前的小林村他們就有很多的聲音就是說把他們整個村拆成三個我們有一個居住權跟生命權跟財產權其實是要用不同的角度去檢視有一個房子住他沒有跟他的文化什麼也都沒有了這個我覺得以前的 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11558.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11575.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
歷史的這個借鏡我們可能要看所以我才會特別問這個問題我們這個中繼宅是就是暫住以後如果說這個整個復原完之後他們還是可以回去原來的地方我們現在的規劃是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11577.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11601.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
是 我們為什麼叫中繼宅的主要原因就是說第一個大部分的災民都是希望是離災不離鄉所以我們是選擇也是在光復的台塘的部分在第一批的中繼宅把它設置出來讓他們可以進駐也就是說房舍如果不安全的話一定要離開原來的房舍那房舍如果安全的話盡量回來自己的房舍那這一點大家的共識性都很強 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11603.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11630.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
只不過我們現在的速度非常快的狀況之下我們也趕快中繼屋如果蓋好的話有些比較弱勢的族群可不可以先進去進駐還有就是說有些原住民部落的朋友他們很希望說原住民他是一個團體還經過他們的原住民的代表互相溝通互相溝通未來的中繼宅要設置成什麼樣子的部分的話我們還是有時間可能他們有共識之後會再繼續往下來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11632.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11654.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
這個部分 主委 你有沒有參與到你們的看法是如何目前有關中紀務的部分跟委員報告我們都有跟部落就是一戶一戶來做一個面談目前就是說也有意見都還沒有完全一致 還沒有共識因為有的人他也希望說租屋補住他就願意去住了 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11655.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11676.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那麼也有的就是說希望能夠有一個中基屋而且這個中基屋希望族人能夠一起住在一起那我們都尊重現在我們還在跟部落在這個跟他們在座談還在跟他們在做說明那我相信很快有一個共識之後我想因為整個的戶數我們估了也不會超過150戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11678.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11688.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
全部啦我相信這個中繼屋的這個設計應該都容納得下所以不到十分之一的人會需要這個中繼屋嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11690.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11708.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
因為有的他的房子並沒有受損他還是可以回去住真的嚴重的大概就是我講的是150戶以內不會超過150戶目前我們預判是這樣子因為在跟部落做座談的時候我們都有掌握到 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11709.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11728.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
當然你說現在每個人的想法都會不一樣我要特別的今天請問你們兩位就是說原住民他們有他們比較特殊的文化傳統我們的中繼屋如果他可能也住也不是住 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11731.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11754.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
幾個月可能也會住一段時間那在這邊的話這個的設計這個什麼其實你園民會也應該要有多一些意見然後符合我們原住民族我們這些大家的需求我覺得這個才是重點不是給他一個房子住啦他們的生存權我覺得也要受到重視可以嗎好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11762.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11780.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
謝謝張宏祿委員接下來我們請王育敏委員質詢謝謝主席我們先請工程會的主委請工程會陳主委委員早 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11791.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11816.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
主委好主委你還記不記得在8月26號在院會質詢的時候我有跟你提出來在嘉義縣役足鄉他有一個中正堂他在丹納斯風災的時候其實回損嚴重已經不堪使用他必須重建那時候我還問你說那我們這一次有了特別條例有特別預算是不是可以有這樣重建的經費你還說可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11818.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11844.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
結果去會刊的時候工程會的代表就改口了他說要其他部會來負責主委你知道這件事嗎我剛有了解一下就是說一族相公所第一個它是不是因為丹納斯颱風所引起的災損第二個它是屬於等於是公共設施通常我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11847.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11871.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
風災會單獨有一個專案那這個專案如果是符合的話會專案來做協助來處理是這個方向那特別條例裡面的特別預算那就要看整個特別預算原來在內政部的部分是不是有針對這樣的公共設施來進行協助所以你現在要推給內政部那個內政部部長 來 劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11873.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11892.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
你們現在我看到就是推來推去就是明明在院會答應的是竹偉寧你本人答應的你現在說是內政部內政部又說不是他這個錢不會是工程會出就是說因為那整個是你內政部的整個不是你主持嗎相公所的相公所他有上他的職屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11893.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11921.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這個主委你整個特別預算有600億最後立法院還加碼給你你還有二倍金還有30億結果一個嘉義縣這麼財政困窘的地方一個異族鄉老人人口第一名的地方他那麼破落的一個中正堂在這次重建裡面要經費要提計劃結果工程會推給內政部內政部也說不是他那他真的是求助無門 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11922.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11949.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
工程會是中整整個特別預算是主管機關那這個主管機關底下有內政部有經濟部有農業部所以你認為這件事要找內政部對不對來 部長 劉部長是你要負責嗎報告王委員委員關心多次啦那我們現在就是想辦法要來解決這個問題那剛剛那個陳主委講的沒有錯沒有在特別條例裡面我們想要從特別統籌分配款裡面來處理看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11951.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11954.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
所以你會積極來研議嗎因為它真的是很弱勢的一個鄉鎮也就是說如果說它是報災修那在特同的話可能不在特別預算的範圍內那你說你可以另外有計畫可以協助它嗎就是我剛跟您報告了就是用災修的方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11967.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11983.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
因為他真的是很困窘我知道 單一線財政很困難而且異族鄉又是老年人我了解所以我剛講說我們來解決問題那就用特等的方式但是因為災修到底經費多少你大概什麼時候可以讓本席知道你們提出解決的方案大概多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11984.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
12007.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
包委員是這樣通常各鄉鎮公所如果像這種40年以上房子會老舊不堪它本來就一定程序可以請縣政府請內政部來申請補助是重建我們特別條例處理的是災損不會包括整個重建如果說有哪裡需要修繕等等如果看起來是一個老舊的鄉公所 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
12010.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12028.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
對 然後風災又再次受損對 所以如果要重重的我是跟委員報告如果重建的話要循這個內政的程序由內政部在本預算裡面來協助重建好 那你們兩位可不可以答覆我大概一個月之內可不可以提出一個如何解決的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12029.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12035.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我認為如果是重建的話就要循正常程序由嘉義縣政府或鄉公所提報內政部來看來年度的預算可以那個部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12044.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12066.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
這件事情你大概多久可以給一個解決的方案報告委員就是剛剛那個主委所提到的不管是一族鄉公所或者是嘉義縣政府我們建議是用災修除非說建物完全是不安全如果災修的話我們會盡快用特等的方式來處理因為到目前為止我們還沒有看到他們提報上來因為會刊多次我也了解其中的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12068.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12074.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
所以現在聽起來是工程會推給內政部說重建就是你們你們說你們只願意災修不願意重建我想是這樣子重建確實比較曠日廢時 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12081.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12098.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
那災修就是說但他真的很老舊了對 但是災修如果是無虞那個在建物安全無虞的狀況之下災修會比較快但你們上次去會館你們也覺得應該是要重建我現在署長告訴我們的是可以走災修災修他耐得住但是如果要重建會比較晚 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12099.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12119.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
重建會比較晚我想您大概了解整個的工程本來就是進度就是這樣子我希望這件事我們不要忽略最弱勢的地方下一頁我要問一個就是現在內政部的補助標準你們現在是取消活動中心取消消防隊的興建取消興建的避難建築這些你們通通都要取消嗎都不補助嗎因為加一線 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12120.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12142.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
他們梅山鄉有一個太平他們要建一個新的這個消防的封鎖然後內政部的回應說我們現在通通一律都不補助了有這回事嗎那你們補助社團最新的你們新增加的預算要補助民間的這一些宗教組織等等你們增加了三億那這麼關鍵的消防設施你們說沒有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12143.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12157.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
有這回事嗎我想不是這樣子第一個 前瞻預算已經結束了那前瞻預算如果結束的話有些補助當然就不見了那個這個是大家都了解的那消防的部分你們就都不補助了嗎一律所有的分所你們都沒有錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12158.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12180.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
各縣市一個都不會增第一個地方縣市政府他們提報上來我們是按照中央跟地方的這個補助的方案來處理沒有所謂的取消不取消的問題但是所以沒有全面取消嗎我要知道是沒有全面取消嗎對不對要看狀況因為那個委員所提的部分他是一個什麼建設活動中心這些我們不曉得真正的項目在哪裡所以我們可能要看狀況而定 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12181.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12201.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
我只是要確認部長你的原則並沒有取消所有的補助報告委員在我們內政部裡面不管是有計劃或者是沒有計劃或是任何其他的補助辦法我們的辦法到目前為止沒有更改過任何一個字所以可以提上來你們再評估如果立法院的前瞻預算取消我們當然就沒有啦這個我想委員非常的清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12201.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12220.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
对啊 例行性的这些消防的分队的建制一样可以提计划不止这些硬体的建设包括委员所提到人民团体的部分也是一样我们所谓人民团体的补助都是按照原来惯例上面的补助办法从来没有改变过任何事情所以外面的传言我是觉得应该请委员帮忙处理是不是还是可以提计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12222.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12248.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
要看您是哪一項計畫所以還是可以提倡我剛剛就跟你說消防隊分數如果有預算的來源的話我們當然會按照那個標準的作業程序來處理好 我希望這個該補助的地方重要的基礎建設政府不能省但是你們不要把一些省下來的錢去補助不需要錦上添花的地方這個是一個很重要的原則弱勢優先永遠是最重要的原則好不好 謝謝好 謝謝王一鳴委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12251.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12279.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
接下來請林黛嬅委員林黛嬅委員林黛嬅委員不在好 我們接下來請高金素梅委員發言那我們12點開飯大家在12點就可以用餐我們就不休息了直接就開飯 就吃飯了OK 請高金 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12284.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12288.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
謝謝趙偉我們有請公共工程委員會陳金德主委請陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12298.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12319.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
委員好主委你好我們曾經是立法院的同事希望我們今天的對談能夠幫我們花蓮的尤其是萬榮鄉的族人能夠解決他們的困境好嗎 謝謝那個連續兩次驗射壺重大災害主委您也是我們重建特別條例的主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12320.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12334.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
你是不是亲自有去过被洪水灌入的名利村河段来听取我们主任的意见我去过三次其中最长就这个一站式服务站在那边待了八天 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12336.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12352.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
好 那你看到了什麼問題就是…簡短的說好嗎 因為我們今天時間有限你覺得最重要的問題是什麼就是兩個字 就很嚴重了好 很嚴重 我剛剛就已經說了工程會是災害復建的主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12353.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12368.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
我要請問您最近這四年我們政府在公務預算投入所謂的災後重建的核定經費各是多少我列了大概四年您看一下因為我時間有限2021年79億2022年77億2023年120億2024年259億這個數字代表什麼主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12380.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12403.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
因為這幾年剛好…這是公務預算喔這幾年剛好都不在政府部門您看到這個數據以你的專業來說你看到了什麼是不是連年災害特別的多了是逐漸增加好 謝謝然後我們看到這些災後重建的預算是每一年工程會針對大大小小的災害所核定的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12404.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12421.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那麼我們可以知道一般災害復建它主要是針對個別災害是由中央補助地方政府來執行對吧沒錯就是針對公共設施對那我們今天要審查的馬太安特別條例的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12422.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12451.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
是因為馬太安溪的災害的規模非常的龐大而且它是複合性的災害類型所以在特別條例裡面我們讓公共工程委員會作為這個條例的主管機關重點是要來整合整個災區的訴求還有制定標準然後讓我們各個部會它在執行預算的時候能夠有所依據對不對 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12452.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12470.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
對好 那麼我現在要提到我的重點了當九月份光復爆發災情的時候當時針對萬榮鄉名利村的堤防破口你們在報告裡面提到你們叫做開口堤 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12471.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12491.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
然而在7月份的時候我們的村長我們的鄉長在災防匯報的時候都提醒了水利署你們必須要去處理這件事情然而指揮官暨政委他也指示水利署你們要趕快的去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12493.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12507.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
結果呢七月份到九月份兩個月過去了而我的名利村的村民得到的是什麼水淹家園水利署你們一時的疏忽造成了我們水利署長的道歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12508.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12537.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我不仅仅要提这个我更要提的是我们的政府对原乡的河川地理的治理标准是不一样的也非常的不公平我们在都会区当我们进入到河川的区域工程上的名称是用所谓的水门还有阅题道路可是在偏乡在我们原乡你们设计用临时性的太空包去堵住开口题 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12539.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12555.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
標準兩套而生命兩等這對我們的族人來說是情何以堪的事情啊馬太安的艷澀湖還在我相信在場的專業的人你們都清楚知道河床的水位因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12557.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12574.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
雨的大小它會升高多少這些是必須要經過專業的計算還有持續的追蹤然而潛在的災害風險也不斷的提醒在場的公部門的行政單位尤其是水利署 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12576.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12595.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
而你們該有所作為而不作為這造成了我名利村的村民財產的嚴重的損失然而國家賠償法第三條明定請大家聽一下公共設施管理有欠缺人民財產受損國家應該要負賠償的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12601.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12619.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
萬榮鄉的鄉長 名利村的村長多次的告訴我們的政府然後中央指揮官也已經交辦你們要去處理了結果我們的執行單位草率的處置這就是明顯的管理欠缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12620.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12637.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
但是與其讓我們的災民要跟我們的政府打非常冗長的國賠我認為不如現在就由我們的政府主動來承擔讓我們一起在本條例有具體的補救方法可以嗎 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12638.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12642.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
報告委 因為萬雄鄉民意村的災損是延續馬太安溪相關的災損我了解啊 所以7月份的時候我們的鄉長 我們的村長就跟了紀政委 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12653.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12679.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
就說了必須要趕快去堵住那個缺口七月份談沒有做一直到九月份才去弄太空包以致造成了這麼大的嚴重所以他的相關衛助復原是比照原來光復鄉跟鳳林的少數幾個村的標準一樣進行衛助也就是如果有煙的主委你不要再跟我這邊在談這個我現在要跟你談的是更嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12683.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12712.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
召委麻煩再給我一點時間我必須要闡述一下我們災民的心聲還有釐清尤其我們今天下午就要審預算了好所以呢主委我的重點是在說與其讓我們的族人去打一個冗長的國賠倒不如現在已經有這個特別條例了我們能不能夠在這個特別條例裡面好好的聽好好的撫慰我們的災民的心情可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12713.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12736.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
報告委員 如果是國賠的話公務人要有疏失的責任我沒有跟你講國賠主委我說我們與其打國賠太冗長現在有特別條例我們好好的來談這件事情好不好這部分我請水利署還有經濟部次長來跟你說明好 我要跟你講 不必他們說明您是主管機關我要跟你談的是第一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12737.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12762.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
也是我到現場去我們的族人還有災民我們的災民既是農民也是災民他跟我反映的有關原住民房舍的賠償應該要包含臨時性的建物所以我在這裡要求你們必須要從寬認定必須要加速辦理而從寬認定有幾個建議主委聽一下有三個第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12763.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12785.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
有基礎資料的時候我們以戶籍為認定的依據然後第二個如果資料不足的我們就用航照圖來搭配相公所所謂的士林證明來做佐證第三個現地如果可以看到地基樑柱這些殘跡的我們就視為實際居住的證明可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12786.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12802.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我跟委員報告我們是針對居住的戶長進行相關的衛助那放得很寬只要實際居住有災損的證明就可以實際居住跟災損證明完全由村長可以認定好所以以上我講的這個方塊認定你都同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12803.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12827.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
就是我们有两个要件实际居住还有你刚刚有没有听我讲的主委有基础资料者以户籍认定依据如果资料不足的话用航照图搭配相公所士林证明佐证如果现地可以看得到地基两处的他也可以这个我们当然可以当作他有居住的事实干流户籍但是我们是 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12827.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12857.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
不要浪費我那麼多的時間主委現在我跟你講的都是非常具體你說OK就OK了其實我們兩個談論是一樣的問題好嗎另外我們來談一下學校的部分災區的學校我們三讀通過的特別條例是包含了學校幼兒園的重建但是我們看到行政院這次在分配特別預算給各個部會去執行預算的時候沒有編給教育部教育部你可以上台來一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12857.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12873.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
然後所以讓我們的教育部我們學校他只能夠用自己的公務預算去支應主委你認為合理嗎這個是教育部主動表示他本預算可以處理像那個關乎工商等這些學校問題所以主動要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12874.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12897.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
不纳入这个特别预算但是我们的三读通过的特别条例有包含学校跟幼儿园的重建对 我们特别预算是根据特别条例来编的那教育部它本身表示不需要所以它要用它的公务预算去它用它的公务预算主委你知道吗今天没有教育部来但是我要特别的强调的是公务预算它会影响到其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12898.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12912.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
而我們說的特別條例它是指定災害的所以教育部這麼做是錯誤的我會再回到教育部要求他們並且我要要求主委這件事情您必須要思考繼續我要來談到的是公部門的橫向聯繫的重要性來 原民會的主委你可以上來有關原住民經濟產業還有部落農特產品的重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12923.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12940.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
原民會主責的是推廣但是它並不包含產業重建需要的設施設備然而我們經濟部的產發署經濟部也可以上來一下你們有關重建產業的設施設備你們是有補助的所以主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12941.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12965.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
本條例不受預算法第62條的規定也就是說各機關還有計畫或業務的科目你們是可以互相留用的所以主委還有我們的陳主委園民會跟經濟部應該成立跨部會推動工作小組來協助我們原住民的產業還有部落產業提供有效的診斷輔導還有修復設施的設備兩位主委同意嗎可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12972.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12987.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
可以有會協調 相關部會謝謝 以上我提到的這些還有接下來不好意思真的再給我一點時間因為我是災區的立法委員我也是原住民的立委因為有太多重要的事情需要在這邊理清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12988.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
13014.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
好 以上我提的這幾個我請各全責機關用一個書面的完整的回覆給我另外我還有幾個要求第一個 我希望我們的災後重建主管單位你們可以設置重建單一的服務窗口然後來整合所有部會的資源同時要優先進行我們災民的心理的諮商還有中長期的復原生計計畫可以嗎 第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
13016.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
13036.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
主委這方面都有編列相關預算好 第二個我第一窗口就在東部行政院的東部服務中心好 可以第二個我只要是在我原住民地區請你們遵守原住民基本法涉及原住民21條諮商同意事項還有其他公務員事項要你們實質來尊重部落會議的決議跟在地的知識可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
13038.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
13063.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
原住民基本法會遵守就相關開發行為當然會要諮商好 謝謝來 第三個我希望資訊能夠透明化請提供特別預算還有我們公務預算的相關的分工還有規劃的期程以及進度並且要公告上網重點的事項每日要更新方便國會還有人民的監督這樣也可以吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
13063.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13078.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
我們會提供特別條例跟相關仔細話最後我要講的是我的心聲花蓮從去年0403的地震到最近兩次的晏色湖的事件在這裡我要痛心的說民進黨政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13079.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13101.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
你們對於地震之後的地形變化九月颱風季節後艷澀湖的危機你們根本就沒有心要預防你們只知道大罷免然後一直沉溺於政治鬥爭政府這種對花蓮人民特別是我的原住民的族人生命財產的無視你們必須要負起全部的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13102.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13129.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
也希望我們的政府尤其是民進黨的政府能夠在這一次的危機覺醒回到國事好好做事一起為這塊土地的人民好好做事我相信以上我提的這些全部都是全民的心聲回復到國政好好做事不要再政治惡鬥了吧謝謝好 謝謝高清素美委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13133.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13135.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
接下來我們請袁寬恆委員質詢主席 各位本院委員同仁還有各位列席官員大家好主席有請經濟部常務次長好 請經濟部賴次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13159.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13180.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
委員好市長好經濟部這次編列91億有85億是用來辦理馬太岸溪及花蓮溪水系河川系統性的治理但是不知道你們到底會不會傾聽當地民眾的心聲我是希望只要當地民眾有什麼請求或者是建議事項你們務必要放在心上 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13181.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13192.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
像是受到鳳凰颱風影響導致馬太安溪水位暴漲昨天18號有再一次的暴漲那溪水淹沒馬太安溪變道才剛修復的便橋就被沖斷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13194.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13215.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
沒有 這個當地村長其實很早以前就提醒了擔心溪水從這個溪邊堤防破口流進部落但是 這個貴單位完全沒有把居民的這些請求放在眼裡都覺得自己的專業判斷沒有錯但是連續遭遇大水不斷湧入部落的慘況 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13216.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13240.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
都歷歷在目你們也沒有辦法為你們的疏失來負責但是事實上就是居民的家園再一次的受到傷害所以這一次特別預算在治理馬灘溪這個溪水花蓮溪水河川系統未來會不會實際的具體的跟當地的村民或者是居民一起討論這些他們的意見會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13247.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13263.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
有關於未來的重建工作水利署就會跟當地的民眾包括民間團體來傾聽他們的聲音那除此之外在這邊跟委員說明自從馬灘淹涉湖溢流然後造成下游光復 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13265.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13286.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
光復鄉很大的這個嚴重的一個災害我們看到極端事件它再來的狀況跟損害是非常的複雜而且是劇烈的水利署在11天內完成了2860公尺原來的堤防的搶修而且下面還輸菌我就是要求麻煩你們一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13288.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13316.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
與當地的我們這些里長 村民 村長跟他們做實際的討論了解當地實際的狀況不要因為憑藉著自己的專業認為說專業判斷才是對的那只有他們最了解當地的實際情況他們都是長期居住在當地的居民我們要勇於認錯要勇於認錯不要推卸責任不然的話這個只會讓災民更加的心寒那這一次的一個重建特別預算我只有一個請求就是要妥數的 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13317.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13334.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
把災民的家園 妥數的重建完成以及災民有任何的需求 請求的部分我們要求各部會都從寬認定並且在未來預防的工作上一定要做好萬全的準備千萬不要再發生事先已經有 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13335.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13356.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
地方的提醒但是我們的這些所屬機關卻一意的孤行造成這樣遺憾的事情再次的發生那再來我想請教署長就是我在 次長我們在總質詢的時候有提過今年七月份的時候幾次的豪大雨造成烏日沙鹿地區的淹水的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13357.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13383.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
不知道你有沒有注意到但是因為對於烏日地區來講2008年卡梅基颱風風災重創民眾都歷歷在目心中還是非常的害怕我也跟水利局台中市水利局相關單位都討論過透過資料發現所有的抽水站就是沿著大理溪跟烏溪的這些抽水站肅王碑抽水站武漳里抽水站中興抽水站等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13385.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13406.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
抽水量都很正常但是根據數據的發現不只是台中地區許多這些抽水站的設置現在有一個很大的問題需要經濟部來協調在未來防洪防範淹水的一個重點檢討就是說我們排水出去的河川淹水地區排水出去的河川它的水位比我們淹水區還高 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13408.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13428.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
這個部分不只是台中也不只是烏日剛剛有提到大都區的山陽大排也出現這樣的情況我們卓院長在總質詢的時候也做出了承諾所以說請經濟部水利署來做一個通盤的檢討針對全國所有的這些河川區域 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13429.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13457.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
排這個地勢較高的地區來做一個全面的檢討可不可以首先這幾個抽水站的部分都是中央來協助地方政府來建置的剛剛委員所提到的更讓我們體現到極端氣候的事件我們必須要系統性的來檢討院長也指示經濟部來責成水利署針對系統性的一個治水的工作做簡單性的一個評估也不只是只有這樣子因為我想我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13458.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13463.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
早期的一個規劃跟設計現在都需要做一個更全面的檢討包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13465.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13493.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
因為很多新興地區人口稠密的地區像高鐵特區像沙鹿的張子野海線的一些新興的一個社區的開闢那地面下的這些雨水下水道普及率覆蓋率偏低那加上你剛剛提到的極端氣候還有瞬間雨量造成突發性的淹水所以我們時常都看到我們這些人口稠密地區淹水的狀況雨水下水道是一個看不見的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13494.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13512.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
但是我們人民走在路上看不到雨水下水道但是這是一個政府保護人民財產安全重要的建設所以我希望說經濟部啟動全面的通販檢討尤其是要協助我們各縣市地方政府來做一個全面的一個檢討跟計畫的提出好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13512.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13529.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那過去透過特別預算來協助地方政府我們也期待大院多支持給中央更多的資源可以讓赤水的工作更加的順利以上 謝謝好 謝謝袁焕仁委員接下來請鄭正前委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13540.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13548.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
謝謝主席 我想請一下經濟部賴次長好 請賴次長然後農業部陳部長好 陳部長還有交通部陳次長陳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13552.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13578.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
委員好次長好那個颱風年年都有然後今年特別多那從7月份的丹娜絲9月份的花家莎到11月份的鳳凰就一個接一個坦白說台灣最近其實不是很安定那颱風年年都來可是我們的很多的工程都年年在拖沒有 委員我們的質詢力都很好OK好 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13579.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13599.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
我想說因為針對名利村這個部分因為7月份就反映了然後9月份的時候也交辦可是到11月份的時候還是產生一個淹水的情況這等一下你再一起回應我想特別了解的部分就是說我們現在針對因為今天是針對馬太安溪淹捨湖的災後重建的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13602.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13619.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
那我特別要提到一個因為在11月份鳳凰颱風來的時候蘇澳這邊的時候也淹水所以我們看到在蘇澳溪分紅工程這邊的時候2013年的時候就已經同意規劃那麼到2023年行政院才終於合訂計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13620.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13645.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
那麼合訂之後還是一拖再拖那整個經費暴漲到今年1月份的時候再度提報修正計畫之後然後目前進度如何可不可以請次長一併回應一下首先2023年3月2號行政院合訂的計畫包括2024、2025我們都有編列蘇浩熙分紅的工作跟預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13645.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13673.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
那蘇澳分紅現在的進度各項的進度不管是上游的藍沙壩或是管理中心的設計的工作都已經完成而宜蘭縣政府所提報的這個徵收的這個計畫在今年的九月也奉內政部來核定那預計在年底完成的徵收那也所幸在行政院的協助之下針對於物條或是因為我們做的水工模型實驗事實上我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13674.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13695.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
為了讓蘇澳分紅可以順利的倒排80%的上游的水量市長時間有限 那個什麼時候可以完成這整個計畫什麼時候可以整個完成這個縣政府現在提的修正計畫我們會行政院院長也去現場看過大概2018年左右2018年 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13696.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13707.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
之後再給本席一個更詳細的一個時間的一個控管的一個部分因為時間有限我想這部分的時候再請次長這邊的時候幫我們費心針對這部分特別給我們本辦公室一個相關的計畫來接下來我想請問一下農業部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13715.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13731.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
因為那個雖然我們今天講的是那個馬太安溪的部分可是我對那個化家沙整個颱風風災之後整個一個災損之後的一個補助情況到現在情況到底是怎麼樣子然後農損的補助大概什麼時候可以完成這個部分可不可以請部長做個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13732.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13760.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
我跟委員報告就是整個包括從淡納斯開始的花架在颱風那基本上我們在第一時間能夠主動公告我們就會主動公告那如果說它有持發性的災損的這些品項我們就會跟地方政府密切的配合當適當的時間點就會陸陸續續的去做這個公告然後公告完了以後是由地方政府去現刊公所現刊以後的核報這個程序本身大家都理解我們三年之內一定撥款 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13761.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13790.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
OK 好 那針對這個部分本席還特別想去了解一下整個復耕的情況尤其是花蓮這邊整個後續的復耕的狀態的時候我們到底要怎麼做然後它還適合做農耕使用還是到時候要變成一個非農業使用可不可以請部長這邊做個回應我簡單的說明就是現在目前光復耕鳳梨裡面大概有774公頃是被土砂淹沒大概分為兩類一類是50公分以下的直接就可以放耕去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13791.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13813.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
另外一個就是比較超過50公分的我們就會看看說是不是需要土地重劃或是用其他的方式來處理這個部分我們已經開了5場的座談會也跟300多位的這些鄉民一起討論未來的整個規劃一定會這個區域因為這件災情很嚴重然後我在想說有可能變成非農用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13814.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13827.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
都有可能就是說有一部分可能會變造林或者是變成堤防的緩衝帶那這個部分我想我們都會持續的跟鄉民做溝通達到共識還有我們的規劃以後才會比較完整的確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13828.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13849.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
OK 針對這部分的時候我們希望農業部能夠盡速對於農民這部分的災損能夠儘快給予一些補償謝謝部長我接下來想請教一下交通部陳次長因為這一次當中的時候交通部這邊也編列了1.4億元其中1.3億再做一個災後的一個復原的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13849.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13876.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
那其中有三千萬在做那個邊坡的一個搶修跟加固那我們看到了就是整個因為集團氣候來襲台鐵它要韌性補強的部分我覺得還蠻多的因為從一百零四年到一百一十三年就是鐵路行車安全改善計畫的時候整個累積到了四十一億那目前整個審計部八月份它也提出了部分就說整個台鐵的一個預警系統異常的一個頻繁土石流雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13877.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13886.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
強風預警功能都不佳針對這個部分的時候我想交通部有沒有一些更具體的做法來針對於台鐵的部分給予一些品質的一個提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13889.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13909.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
我想跟委員報告因為台鐵有關這個沿線受到極端氣候的影響等等尤其邊坡的其實台鐵已經做了幾項的一個系統在這上頭比如說像邊坡的落石告警或者是義務入侵的一個告警然後甚至為了因應氣候他會跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13910.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13924.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
氣象署有些QP Plus的一個計畫來市長 這個部分大概計畫裡大概我們都理解不過因為台鐵周邊的一個偶發事件變成常態性的一個出現從5月份到11月份我們這邊大概統計了一些數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13928.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13941.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
其中第三個部分的時候9月24號的部分出現了石頭擋在志強號上面志強號撞上去之後脫軌媒體沒有特別關注是因為畫家莎那時候的颱風對於雲嘉地區的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13945.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13973.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
災害太嚴重了那針對這個部分的時候我想說整個台鐵的部分必須要好好的去做一個品質上面的一個提升跟管理那我這邊的時候特別關注一個狀態就是台鐵其實今年其實跟災防中心還有氣象署都簽了合作備忘錄目前進度如何這個部分能不能夠有效來改善我們這麼多的偶發事件然後變成常態發生的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13976.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13985.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
跟委員報告下有關備忘錄的部分很像已經簽署了那至於說它如何運作目前正還在討論中 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13987.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
14000.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
OK 因為這次雖然交通部只有編到1.4億可是我們希望台鐵這相關的一個安全部分在這一次當中也能夠得到一些相關的一個提升好不好是…謝謝次長 謝謝好 謝謝鄭振賢委員次長請回接下來請吳宗憲委員質詢麻煩內政部長好 請劉部長內政部劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
14035.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14049.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
部長你好我想說今天我們是審查花蓮馬太安溪的重建特別條例但是我想我這邊我的立場絕對支持花蓮的重建那該補的該做的我都贊成但是同一個時間我還是要替我們宜蘭這邊發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14052.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14081.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
因為上個禮拜我想大家都知道宜蘭那邊有淹水當時我進了蘇澳五級還有東山的災區其實我看到很多災民我進到他們家裡面去看他們很多客廳都整片泥水家具 電器什麼都泡在水裡面然後那個因為我早上去看的時候那很多那邊的鄉親其實他都一整晚沒睡包括那個操作挖土機的也都說一整晚沒睡那個眼神看起來是累到極點然後看不到明天的那種無力感 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14081.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14105.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我想這次鳳凰颱風它的那個雨帶很長的時間是卡在宜蘭所以它的降雨量非常的驚人這兩天比較難過的是說傳出有一位獨居的就在家裡面溺斃我想今天那個陳金德政委也有在沒關係 陳金德政委不用上來我想還是要麻煩陳金德政委就我們拖了15年的這個蘇澳溪的分洪工程要趕快處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14107.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14128.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
我想陳政委是蘇澳人一定也很在乎家鄉的這些親友的安全所以因為我一直在催促這個事情希望能夠趕快把這個分紅工程早一天開工也好能夠早一天完工也好因為大水什麼時候會來沒有人知道就麻煩政委要多幫忙我想請問部長的一個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14128.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14134.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
我想這次院長已經有承諾這個專案的補助最高10萬元我想這對我們宜蘭人非常的重要那不能夠變成是空談那因為之前您說您非常照顧錦霄但是後來錦霄的一些款項你連編都沒有編那我想請問一下那這一次院長承諾的這個款項請問一下你們有沒有我還沒有問完我的問題謝謝麻煩你讓我把問題問完部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14153.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14158.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
你讓我把問題問完好不好再麻煩你回答好 那請問一下這次的這個災後的補助什麼時候能夠入帳能不能給我一個期程大概多久內 麻煩部長報告委員你講了鳳凰颱風的部分那個院長已經有同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14168.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14195.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
那院長同意的話但是他不在這是特別預算的這個範圍之內他是會要用到行政院的二倍金那院長也只是說最高會到10萬那我們根據淹水的這個高低差的部分那從2萬5萬10萬那我想請問一下部長你們什麼時候會申請這二倍金的部分什麼時候會請問請那個宜蘭縣政府報上來我們就按照程序送到這個行政院來處理那你們有跟縣政府那邊要求他們趕快補資料了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14196.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14211.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
因為我跟你講 災民不是要聽我們地方政府跟中央政府推來推去災民要問的是什麼時候錢會進他們的帳戶很抱歉 我們已經告訴宜蘭縣政府所以這樣的程序我們會按著程序走那如果說宜蘭縣政府報了貸款的話我們再督促他們盡快來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14212.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14225.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
所以你的認為是目前還沒有辦法給我一個確定的期程對不對因為宜蘭縣政府的公文還沒有到你只要跟我講原因就目前還沒有辦法是因為宜蘭縣政府的公文還沒有到但是我們補助辦法已經有了但是我也要跟內政網報告就是說如果你們認為這個是宜蘭縣政府的責任要麻煩你們請他們趕快加快因為災民那邊很辛苦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14236.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14258.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
好那再來我想昨天我還看有一個問題院長說超過100公分會補助10萬但這10萬對我去看那個家裡面損壞的程度那10萬塊連零頭都不夠那我們不能跟那個災民說恭喜你家淹到1公尺所以你符合我們不能這個態度去面對他們所以我們今天還要很積極的去面對這個問題我想10萬塊的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14262.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14289.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
院長講了一個話說超過50到99公分要證實有財損然後加碼再加碼3萬塊超過100公分補助2萬塊並證實有財損加碼8萬塊我想請問一下證實有財損這個東西是什麼意思我翻了一下我國的法規我只有在另外一個部的我在另外一個部的財政部裡面有看到如果財產證明損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14291.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14314.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
他要要求減稅等等的扣除額等等這個的時候他必須去負擔災害現場毀棄物品的照片警察消防里長村長的證明受損財產的取得憑證財產修理這些估價單等等的如果我們換到以這個如果說財產損失因為我想雖然不同部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14314.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14329.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
但是法規的用語都應該是一致的如果我們看了一下財政部的這個所謂的財損的定義那用在我們這邊的話變成你要要求災民要先拍一堆家裡泡水前後的照片也要寫損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14332.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14360.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
洗衣機多少錢沙發多少冰箱多少還要付發票還要估價單可能還要配合公所到場去勘查我覺得這個在整災民加上了要證明有財損這個東西在整災民所以我不知道院長是口誤還是怎麼樣但是我知道的一件就是我國院長如果講出來底下都會照單全收所以我要麻煩部長你要注意這件事情因為在我們看一下經濟部對於淹水 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14362.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14369.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
淹水救助的那個規定經濟部有一個水災災害救助種類及標準他們也是只有簡單的 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14370.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14399.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
得检据佐证及现居居住证明之文件经济部也只有这样财政部有那种什么灾损那个财损是什么有非常严格的规定那我不知道内政部你们在运用到这一块的时候在要执行院长的交代的时候我不知道你们会怎么做因为如果依照院长的说法灾损补助分成三个部分30到49公分补助1万块他没有特别要求要做什么 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14399.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14423.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
但是從50到99公分的時候還有超過100公分的時候他要求提出所謂的財產損失財損的證明那如果依照我國公部門對於財產損失證明的要求就我剛講的 你還要拿發票你還要拿維修的資料你還要拿一些前後泡水的資料甚至還要林里長的證明等等這一堆東西都要的情況下 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14424.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14441.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
這不是在保護他們這是在整災民更何況有非常多的災民其實他們是很辛苦的甚至是老人家不好意思主席因為這跟我們依然有很大的關係給我最後30秒所以我還是希望一件事情他們已經受災了他們已經辛苦了我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14443.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14462.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
父母官應該要竭盡所能的去幫助他們而且這些老人家你很難要求他們有沒有存這些發票那我再跟部長就是最後這個報告一件事情貴部有一位高階的公務員跟我說 給我一個建議他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14463.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14476.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
拜託這些救災的事情可不可以不要讓人民跨部會的去找協助家庭損害找內政部農作損害找農業部店家貸款找經濟部減稅找財政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14479.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14503.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
一个灾民搞到最后他已经昏了我不知道找谁所以贵部的那位高阶公务员跟我说因为内政部是灾害防治的主管机关是不是可以请你们做一站式的服务能够让人民来申请一次由你们来协助跟各部之间协调来帮助这些灾民用最简化的行政效率去来对他们协助 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14504.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14515.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
不要因為你們總是號稱這AI內閣嘛就現在我們人民都BI啊就變成從A變B啊大家都BI不能這樣子所以是不是部長這部分你們能不能承諾做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14518.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14541.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
可不可以 這部分我們就是請部長我簡單回應一站式的服務詳細的說出書面報告 麻煩你們報告召委跟委員第一個我們會建議行政院重寬處理他的救助標準但是最後到哪一個部會來做一站式的主導可能還要請行政院做決定因為內政部是災害防治的主管機關我們是應變所以我才會說 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14545.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14566.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
但是我們還是以行政院的命令為主我不是幫宜蘭爭特權我只是說幫宜蘭人了解我們宜蘭人的補助有沒有時間表什麼時候入戰還有能不能以戰士的服務那我希望不要有下一個不要再遇到下一個颱風又再來大量災害不要說下一個晏曬湖土石流或下一個暴雨去侵害我們的人民好不好麻煩部長多幫忙好 謝謝部長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14572.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14576.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
好 謝謝吳宗憲委員接下來請蔡易瑜委員質詢好 謝謝渣偉那我們是不是先請這一次的行政工程委員會的主委陳金德主委請陳金德主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14612.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14636.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
委員好 主委今天在討論這個是馬太安的特別預算不過因為我選區嘉義我想說還是藉這種機會我來問一下丹納斯的狀況丹納斯主委你是指揮官所以有一些狀況我想要透過這次質詢再做一個確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14638.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14652.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
就是說我們這一次當然是颱風對於汙損的一個補助大概把它分為幾個層級就是所謂6坪以下或是6坪以上20坪以上以下這樣子一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14654.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14677.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
當時是說如果到了六坪以上的話就會有補助五萬那二十坪以上補助十萬那六坪以下原本是沒有那地方政府像我們嘉義縣政府就是補助五千這沒有錯那後來在九月五號的時候因為針對六坪以下的沒有這件事情大概有些民怨所以後來行政院加碼六坪以下補助一萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14678.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14697.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那在這個兩個禮拜前我們卓同泰院長也在我們大家一起的爭取之下大家後又針對不管坪數只要你是自行修繕的就再加碼兩萬塊這個就不管坪數就是六坪以下也有六坪以上也有 二十坪以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14697.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14726.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
也有這樣的一個兩萬那我這樣來統整起來所以就是如果以六坪以下的那經過地方政府我們嘉義縣政府補助五千九月五號的時候補助一萬那在卓院長最近又公告在內政部也在十一月七號已經發文給地方政府就是再兩萬自行修繕所以只要有自行修繕的污損這一次丹納斯颱風就可以得到補助三萬五千塊這樣沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14728.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14736.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
那五千是嘉義縣政府台南市政府它本身二十坪以下的它是發一萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14738.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14758.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
對 那還有其中有弱勢戶也有特別在發弱勢戶有在增加 對 沒有錯有在增加1萬 有在加碼那我剛講的是說那如果非弱勢戶就一般戶而言那就是 行政院就是3萬跟地方政府就是3萬包括縣政府的5000就3萬5如果縣政府加5000就是3萬5對 那所以因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14763.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14775.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
我們這是陸續公布我們怎麼去協助這些災民所以災民本身是混亂的因為20平方米不是20平20平方米以下的就6平20平方米以下如果說以嘉義縣政府5000的話那這當中會有一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14784.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14799.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
有人可能屋頂破損了18平方米那18平方米是很大還是很大還是很大所以跟那個1平方米是差很多是所以的確那一部分人多而且很多人是的確沒有受到這個補償的就是救助的所以才會 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14801.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14815.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
20平方米會有個相對剝奪感因為弱勢戶已經都有了所以一般戶再加2萬然後因為這裡面有的是自行修繕沒有透過這個前進指揮所來媒合的所以全部都再補助2萬自行修繕就2萬嘛對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14819.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14822.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
再加上剛剛講的原本的1萬就是3萬這沒有錯再跟指揮官再確認一點因為原本如果是6坪以下就是20平方米以下的他們可能會覺得說只有地方政府的5000所以他就沒有去申請他就沒申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14841.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14844.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
現在看起來行政院的誠意夠了他就覺得我應該要來申請所以他的申請期限我們有展延到11月31號也就是這個月底 沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14855.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14874.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
這個斬年是指加碼的部分照理說一開始申請的20平方米以下縣市政府都已經有名冊了那個申請就按照那個名冊去加碼補發就可以了那是按照名冊但是有一些是原本沒申請的 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14875.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14890.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
對 地方政府因為就是要去現場去看嘛到底有沒有破損那你剛才講的可能是嘉義縣有些人五千太少了那就沒有去申請我想那個嘉義縣市府他自己可以決定要到什麼時候還可以決定我們是說11月31號啦他可以自己決定那如果受理申請了五千那行政院當然再加碼三萬如果原本就有五千的那就是最單純的啊就直接入帳就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14903.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14908.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
那我現在是有因為有些申請是說原本因為他認為只有五千所以他就沒有去申請那就趕快補申請那補申請就可以太好了那要感謝根據縣市政府的名冊來補發好那我在最後一分鐘我再請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14920.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14939.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
那就是石棉瓦的問題這一次我們因為屋頂的損害大部分是石棉瓦石棉瓦的清潤費用它的後端處理費用非常的貴這個價格很高所以處理石棉瓦大概是一個現在我們整個地方在做環境清理的時候是一個很大的問題那現在說石棉瓦可能好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14946.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14967.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
現在的清運能量已經不足可能是預算的問題還是後端處理能量的不足這件事不知道但是我們想要說至少我們嘉義跟台南都一樣吧就是說石棉瓦不會說台南優先處理我們嘉義後處理應該沒有這樣吧環境部的石棉瓦是補助縣市政府對 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14968.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14975.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
那就是去化一噸是4萬5千均勻是5千均勻是5千均勻是5千均勻是5千均勻是5千均勻是5千均勻是5千均勻是5千均勻是5千均勻是5千均勻是5千 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14994.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
15023.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
我們還是希望說這個石棉瓦這處理可以加速因為現在它就是等於太空包把它放在這個我們根據丹納斯風災的相關預算會再補給環境部做必要的來處理這個石棉瓦這樣真的要拜託因為我們現在災後整個整個清潔環境的清潔大家都很急都希望趕快把它恢復到災害前面這個真的是要靠中央預算就趕快集齊好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
15024.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
15050.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
好謝謝謝謝蔡宇宇委員接下來請陳昭之委員不在陳昭之委員陳昭之委員不在接下來請陳素月委員陳素月委員陳素月委員不在現在請邱政軍委員邱政軍委員邱政軍委員不在現在我們請盧憲一委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
15056.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15066.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
主席有請陳經德主委跟園民會曾志勇主委好 我們再請陳主委還有園民會曾主委委員好 主委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15076.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15093.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
今天早上上午九點我們法庭案自救會青年他們到本院表達強烈的訴求在那邊抗議因為光復鄉公有十四個村有七個村受災總戶數是五千零一十一戶有一千八百三十七家戶受災 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15094.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15120.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
那目前申請的中級屋有41戶不過他們最在乎的就是說居住權益跟家園復建的經費是10.02億元佔總預算的比例約3.7%所以請問我們兩位主委面對災民的慘重損失中央政府要如何評估說服受災戶說你僅以預算不到4%的經費你要如何家園重建各位報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15124.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15137.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
這個是我們內政部編的這個預算是我想說預算的比例偏低有沒有辦法說在按照部落的需求跟在地當地族人的需求能夠調高跟委員報告這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15139.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15159.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
特別預算是根據特別條例然後政黨協商出來的總數所以目前看來是沒有辦法說馬上做調整這個就是送來大院來審理我要說的是就是說我們有一定的預算是要蓋中繼宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15160.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15174.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
所以有需求的大概60幾戶所以如果說60幾戶的中繼宅那個預算是夠的那其他就是關於這個水利設施或者是農地的補償或農地的重劃那這些都有足夠的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15175.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15191.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
針對家園重建的話我們不能說這樣看起來是足夠的還是一按照的需求比如說族人的需求當地居民的需求你估算以後才可以說是多少錢光復鄉不只是阿美族還有客家人還有平地人 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15192.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15214.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
我們那個錢每戶35萬針對保全戶跟受災戶35萬是提供給大家做一種家園的清理 復原當然有一些是財損是補助 衛助性質並不是補償或者負責要重建或者就是個人的房屋的重建我想這個非常不同的意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15215.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15241.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
那我們還是呼籲說我們內政部園民會能夠用最簡化的程序最快的速度將補助送到災民的手中全部都發下去了一站式服務在那邊就陸續都發放下去前幾天我們去了名利我相信主委也去了你看一下那當地的場況名利的部分也比照關戶鄉來做未租金希望說他那個300億裡面有包括在名利村有再包括在裡面可以嗎就是比照 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15245.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15263.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
大概我們看到就是大概受災會有31戶包含沒有門牌跟沒有門牌的這個有實際居住跟受災事實就可以可是他們就是說有一個訴求說你不能因為他沒有門牌就不補償或者是說做一些理賠不是理賠 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15264.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15279.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
沒有門牌但有實際記住叫村長簽名就可以最主要是他們現在的需求是這樣那我們有發現說村長跟鄉長在事發的之前大概有跟我們當地的就是我們救災的比如說是工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15281.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15296.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
第九河川分署或者是水保或者是說我們林保署有反映說我們當地的潰堤的可能性不過在事情發生之前他們頂多只用了一些沙包造成這次11月10號這麼嚴重的災害我說這個責任歸屬要歸給誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15301.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15321.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
我跟委員說明了馬灘溪的北側就是鳳林跟萬榮是比較高的地方然後那邊的堤防當年省政府做的就是高規格的堤防比較好南邊關戶的比較差但是因為那個地方地勢本來就比較高所以那一段是沒有做堤防而不是破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15321.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15350.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
所以主要是因為它是有已經有當地的鄉長跟村長有跟我們防災的這些我們長官去的話有反應不過它畢竟沒有做補強的措施所以它有緊急的去做必要的設施但是因為整個河川已經很高了所以水下來會溢過去剛好那個地方是沒有做堤防的地方所以就溢到那個名利村的一些道路上面然後進入社區 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15352.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15374.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
我看到這次的報告書裡面沒有針對我們這300億沒有針對我們原基法的一些機制來做一些構想比如說你應該要保障我們原基法的部落諮商同意這個部分這個法律的層面我覺得沒有顧及到所以以後在要重建的時候你針對比如說水 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15376.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15389.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
水利設施 農業這些菸社會的整治土地的取得這個部分法律的一個準備面我覺得園民會應該要強力的來把我們園區法來顧及到可以嗎可以 報告委員可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15395.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15421.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
可以好最後的就是說關於名利這個部分我們有一些請求就是希望能夠一些跨部會治理平台的運作有些KPI就是說我們社區地方的一個部落市警能夠百分之百納入決策流程48小時能夠完成補正跨部會的風險資訊不得互相矛盾然後中央的誤判必須提出檢討報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15422.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15440.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
部落的知識必須納入的工程設計的一個比例然後部落風險的地圖完成 可以嗎可以 因為我們的重建協調匯報本來就包含各部會 跨部會有包含好 不能再讓名利村這件事情再次上演好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝盧縣議委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15446.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15456.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
好 謝謝現在請許智傑委員許智傑委員許智傑委員不在現在請謝一鳳委員自宣好 謝謝主席我想要請莊部長好 請財政部莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15481.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15489.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
莊部長委員好我們現在已經11月了我想請問一下今年的稅捐徵收的情況是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15491.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15504.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
跟委員報告今年到10月底為止中央的稅收是收到了2兆4673億元達成全年度的稅收的預算是88.6% |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15506.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15530.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
哇 很精準耶 是不是按照那個每一個月的進度所以今年度沒有超增是不是今年度的我們沒有所謂的超增也就是我們的實增數跟預算數之間怎麼樣的達成你們就是符合預算數對不對今年的預算數因為比去年的實增數我們有增加了947億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15532.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15553.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
所以今年在時增數的部分要達到預算數到目前為止我們認為具有一定的挑戰性我想要請問受到美國關稅的影響申請延期繳納或者是分期繳納的企業有多少個人有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15555.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15567.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
你們有統計嗎因為這個有延遲對不對這也其實是今年的稅收是延遲的效果是會有那我們有統計那是不是會我們提供給委員這邊你們都有數字還不敢拿出來是不是手邊有沒有數字是不是有數字不敢拿出來沒有不敢那是不是這個部分你們署長說明一下好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15583.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15584.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
告訴大家一下嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15590.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15606.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
跟委員報告大概申請延期的包含國稅跟地方稅在一起有2315件目前核准的2068件那大概申請延期的金額是125億元分期的部分合計是13572件目前核准13240件核准的491億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15614.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15619.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
所以大概就有500億合計的話有616億你剛才說那個延遲繳納是延期跟分期加國稅跟地方稅加起來國稅是611億 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15631.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15652.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
國稅是611億地方稅大概5億左右5億多所以有600多億是延遲繳納也算到今年的稅收裡面是受到關稅影響我們給予它分期以及延期繳納的是不是那明年咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15654.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15674.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
明年預計出口的數字是怎麼樣你們有做規劃嗎明年的出口這個部分這個部分我們大概是全年還是講明年明年因為你現在還沒有辦法估計明年的出口啊你開始你們應該開始在做了吧是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15674.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15693.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
我們明年當然總預算已經編的稅客收入也有一個編列的數字因為明年的稅客收入受到財化法因為有一定的比增加到地方去所以中央的稅收是比今年的稅收的預算數來的低大概差三千多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15694.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15707.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
少3000多億我們編的總預算裡面中央的稅客收入比今年114年的稅客收入要減少到3000多億多少 數字是多少 宋署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15715.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15739.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
跟委員報告就是我們一百一十五年度的預算數我先講中央數跟一一四年度的預算數大概差了差了兩這樣是兩千多我看看這樣是兩千內地稅你要加合計數這個合計啊關稅啊這是關稅大概三千零啊三千零三十八億對啊差三千零三十八億 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15741.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15755.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
主要是一頁稅的部分因為現在大部分都變地方少了3534億好 所以就是那個部分就是變到地方去是不是對 成為地方的因為到中央統籌分配稅款裡面去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15756.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15775.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
好那如果就是等到明年的就是出口的數字出來的時候再麻煩給我的辦公室一份好嗎可以我們出口每一個月都會在月中的時候會在記者會裡面去報告有關出口的數據好那再麻煩你好謝謝我想要請農業部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15787.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15799.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
部長我想請問一下喔未來的廚餘養豬喔要採取怎麼樣子的做法是不是用就是說已經不用廚餘而是把廚餘再製成飼料 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15800.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15830.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
我跟委員說明現在目前還在做一些討論那其中有一個方法就是說我們將現有的廚藝把它飼料化那飼料化可以規格化的時候那繼續可以讓豬來吃這是一個方式另外一個方式就是說用高溫蒸煮的方式但是高溫蒸煮一定要符合相關的規範包括它即時監控還有落實茶的部分那這個部分我想我們已經在跟環境部做一些討論然後應該很快就應該會有一個比較好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15830.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15858.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
不能夠全部飼料化是目前我們飼料再製的就是能量不足嗎現在因為廚餘的部分以環境部來講它後端的再利用如果說貿然的就是停止廚餘養豬的時候它的後面的廚餘沒辦法沒辦法完全的去化會造成一些環境問題所以我們在考慮說是不是應該有一個過渡期那過渡期以後我們看怎麼處理我們現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15859.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15881.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
你記得我在經濟委員會質詢過你有關於黑水盟的事情就是我有跟環境部也去共同看了黑水盟的處理廚餘的方式我不曉得你們對於黑水盟處理廚餘的方式的探盤查的方法學你們有沒有對它做認證了 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15882.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15911.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
可以了嗎你們上一次說要再討論以現在黑水盲去餵廚餘本身這些飼料化本身那技術上已經沒問題了現在說這個方法後面的這些飼料只能用家禽的飼料不能用在豬的部分這是國際的規範所以我們希望說它是一個去廚餘的方法但是應該還有其他的像您剛才講的就是廚餘用一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15912.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15941.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
一些其他的工业的方法我是说这个部分那个陈部长你要回去因为这个问题我也问了第二次我知道这个我们已经技术没问题了就是减碳的方法学对 我知道减碳的方法学现在已经在他们已经在评估看看它的本身的那个值那个值如果够的话才值得去做方法学对 那我们也希望说能够减少我们台湾的厨余那找到一个可用的方法那这个部分再麻烦你 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15942.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15957.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
好 謝謝委員的提醒我們會來處理好 謝謝謝謝謝一鳳委員部長請回好 我們待會兒劉許廷委員這個咨詢完畢我們休息五分鐘現在請李坤臣委員咨詢謝謝主席我們先請內政部劉部長好 請劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15986.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16004.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
委員你好來 部長好我在手上有一本這個台灣安全台灣全民的安全指引我發現我這本其實是舊版因為你們新版還特別把這個馬灘系列的顏色湖有把它加進去是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16007.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16011.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
對 應該就是有些大自然災變的部分我們覺得有與時漸進的話國安會指導我們就把它放到裡面去因為我這個是比較早拿到的版本所以這裡面的版本 我比對了一下這個新的版本裡面還有花蓮馬太安溪的煙色湖 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16027.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16049.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
然後如何遇到危險的時候天災的時候怎麼去做防範因為我們會遇到這本書裡面這個其實有天災有人禍預防天災就是我們剛剛常講的颱風 地震 土石流 煙車等等還有包含就是說遇到的威脅有可能是軍事侵略都寫在這裡面對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16053.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16056.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
請問一下部長 這本手冊是從今天開始普發嗎是開始作業 要分地區對 因為我看國防部還有內政部有說明是採取用選舉公報的方式做普發就對了 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16076.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16103.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
對 就是我們會透過民政系統來協助普發這個全民安全國防組織那大概最晚是哪時候全民可以拿到這一本書因為我覺得這本書其實編得滿好的明年初 明年初 希望1月對…農曆 農曆明年農曆過年前都能夠拿到其實我是覺得我們自己的這一個不管是警消役 消民防他們這一本應該都要好好的去參閱一下因為其實裡面滿多值得參考的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16105.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16127.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
報告委員 景銷 民房 義銷他們本來就要匯這些不是只有拿這個來參考而且他們還要救人 所以不太一樣裡面的資訊是滿新的是好 謝謝劉部長接下來請這一個我們財政部莊部長請莊部長還有主計處我們陳主計長陳主計長這個有一些可能要說明一下免得被外界 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16134.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16156.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
誤會啦 說昨天你們有找這個各縣市的這個財主單位有來開會 是不是然後呢 這個我看你們開會的主要是中央跟地方的市權的劃分原則嘛所以主要是在講這一個市權的劃分原則嘛因為財劃法的這一個水平分配的話應該之前財政部就有說過了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16157.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16172.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
就是說我們水平分配的指標大概是哪些大概都有講過了所以昨天我看有很多的在野黨今天就拿說兩張Air Force兩張Air Force就要來決定財務法這個主計長要對外講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16175.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16198.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
是 這個部分我們主要是針對市權的一個原則和結構來做說明而且它大部分市權的分派大部分跟114年度大致相同是大家各縣市所熟悉的一個方式所以這個部分在整個紙張方面就沒有只做一個簡報的分析它一張說明這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16200.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16227.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
因為它是跟114年度的一般性補助款還有計劃型補助款原則上是都一樣還有包括一般性補助款裡面的一個基本財政收支差短移到統籌分配稅去這樣我們是就針對原則性的一個說明所以這個部分並沒有涉及到整個財劃法裡面它一個財源分配的一個問題好 那我接下來請莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16228.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16251.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
那這個我們這個行政院版的這個財化法是明天會送院會是的 明天會提報院會討論那麼在院會之後會有記者會我們會詳細的報告跟大家報告財化法修正案的一個整體架構就是它的垂直跟水平就對了對 都會報告好 那我先問一下這個垂直分配來講的話會比這個114年度的這個分配的款項還要多嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16259.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16268.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
會比114年就是三項合計中央統籌分配稅款加一般性補助款加計劃型補助款會比114年當然會增加也會比115年的總規模來的增加那增加去年是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16277.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16304.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
1兆0131億那115年是1兆1683億所以多多少多多少那明天會約會討論後再來做一個試算因為這個設計我們基本上是用像115年是用115年的稅客收入來計算所以垂直分配基本上會比114年還多就對了會多的那這個統籌分配款的部分因為今年等於是4400多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16306.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16308.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
4676億那115年是8874億那我們在三項佳績會比這114跟115年都增加那中央統籌分配稅款的規模當然我們要考慮到市權的一個調整也就剛剛主席長所講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16326.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16340.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
在這個有關市權調整也就屬於地方自治的事項要回歸到地方去辦理的事項有哪一些但是會在中央統籌分配稅款裡面把它放到基準財政收的需要額裡面去也就是說會把它納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16341.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16364.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
是不是就是說我可以講就是說因為市權你們有做重新的調整了市權按照地方自治事項做一些回歸的部分那當然一般性補助款也還是會有那計劃型補助款也還是會有那所以因為市權做了調整了原本是要由地方來做處理過去由中央來支付的未來會回到地方來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16365.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16389.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
部分不是全部那就是屬於經常性常態性的那所以這樣子的話整個統籌分配款是因為這樣增加嗎除了這個當然還有其他的因素我們認為要提升地方財政自主一向來就是財化法在我們在財政部討論以後行政院討論的時候提升地方的財政自主本來就是我們的一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16390.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16404.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
最後再問 如果按照這一個因為我們願版是明天才送接下來要送到立法院來如果按照這個在野黨他們目前所通過的財務法的修正案的話你們有提過 第一個自愛難行 要舉債舉債會違反公債法總預算也不可能退回去從邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16412.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16423.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
因為他要增加2646億那超過舉債的一個上限所以我們這是沒有辦法的也沒辦法退回去從邊也會違反了公債法的舉債上限15%的規定怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16431.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16458.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
我們現在要循憲政的一個程序來做救濟可是第一個你如果要呼籲的話也不會過我想政治現實第二個我們這個大法官現在也沒辦法來做這個事件案的這個裁判那所以呢所以我們有新的裁判法提出來我們希望也是大家希望用現在的裁判法來做處理就對了大家一起共同來討論然後來看這個有沒有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16458.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16475.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
所以新的財務法是能夠解決目前的僵局就對了是 我們是希望如此可以 希望如此好 謝謝好 謝謝李坤勝委員我們更正聲明待會兒我們請徐以貞委員質詢完畢我們再休息十分鐘那接下來請劉許廷委員質詢謝謝主席內政部 經濟部 農業部有請內政部劉部長經濟部賴次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16486.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16488.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
農業部我們陳部長好 我也好好 沒關係我們先開始這個我們還是回到今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16500.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16526.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
質詢的主題就是有關於花蓮馬太安溪的一些後續的一些處遇跟機制上的一些調整今天跟幾位首長來做就教現在馬太安溪到底安不安全其實也很難講對不對因為這個東部的地質本來就比較敏感加上颱風侵襲的狀況本來就比較頻繁加上這個堰塞湖潰堤之後它本來地質就處於一個高度不穩定的狀態比如說前一段時間這個便道又被淹沒 溪水暴漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16528.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16551.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
幾乎是以命相搏是很危險的一個狀況那我想請問一下因為一次找你們三家來就是核心的問題就是我們待會要討論一下未來針對驗射壺到底要市權要不要統一那我們就幾個問題第一個我們以現在花蓮馬太安溪附近的狀況還有沒有形成新的驗射壺的可能我們現在能不能講說花蓮的光復箱已經脫離了危險的狀態這哪一位可以回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16555.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16575.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
跟委員說明現在目前那個馬丹西的驗生物有兩個一個大一個小就是一個大的原來的原本驗生物現在32.5萬噸然後前上個禮拜行程的那個又經過一流潰堤以後剩下5萬噸左右但是因為兩側還有非常多的沙土所以隨時可能好大雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16576.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16591.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
土石在崩的時候隨時還有可能再成為一個新的驗測壺農業部長先第一個站出來處理是因為你是土石流的主管機關所以驗測壺你是主管機關不是 我們是馬太安上游的負責我們負責監測跟警示好 謝謝所以現在還不能講說脫離危險狀態對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16595.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16613.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
對 因為現在目前那個邊坡的土石大概有1萬立方公尺所以隨時有可能不管是地震它再崩下來就會形成新的岩石湖對 如果再崩它就會成成新的謝謝部長的說明再來我要問現在我們在編列特別預算要協助相關的一些重建工程花蓮光復鄉經過地震跟颱風等等大自然基本上改變了水文條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16614.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
16634.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
那現在到底從上游是你處理的嘛對不對那到下游包含判斷進到有人居住的地方這整個的規劃哪一些是安全哪一些是危險的分別的風險燈號是什麼這是哪一個單位決定的我想我們從上游的部分我們透過現在目前的專家團隊他會用最 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
16636.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
16656.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
風險最大的情況之下如果完全潰堤的時候那它的水量到下游大概會上升多少公分然後根據這個多少公分可能會造成的一些必須疏散的部分是由我們的農業部林保署這邊會先提出一些警訊所以劃定安全跟危險等等區也是農業部處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
16657.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
16679.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
就是我們會給一個建議但是如果說給一個建議那誰來決定當時如果有颱風形成的話應變中心如果成立的話那更會用跨部會根據氣象局的這些資訊去做一個中整的判斷我前面聽了蠻高興的因為至少你整個非常的進入狀況當然這個是已經發生了但是你後面這段回答其實就會讓大家比較擔心因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
16680.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
16691.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
你其實做了很多的監測然後其實你有一定的專家學者的數據作為支撐但是決定的時候你還是要等颱風快來的時候成立一個災害應變中心然後還要做跨部會的協調才能決定不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
16693.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
16715.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
因為我們發布的時候有黃色有紅色警戒的部分那如果說颱風沒有進來的時候如果下大雨的時候那相對的我們還是會發黃色跟紅色警戒也會畫這個紅色的警戒區域會給縣市政府跟岡地的鄉鎮工作你是要等應變中心出來才能做這個事嗎還是你本來就做那是哪一個單位做沒有 應變中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
16716.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
16734.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
成立的時候是應變中心那應變中心成立是有颱風的時候才會成立然後如果沒有颱風只有下大雨的時候就是由農業部農水組會發布黃色或紅色警戒那你就簡單回答基本上評估整個區域的災害風險就是由農業部決定就好了嘛對 不過這個也可以這樣講啊OK 很好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
16736.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
16752.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
這今天特別要提一下要把三個人一起找過來就是因為這樣嘛就是我們的地震災害由內政部管理對不對我們的水災由經濟部管理剛剛農業部回答比較多因為土石流這個性質上可能比較接近嘛對不對那現在艷澀湖你們經過了這一次的事件之後到底有沒有統整一下到底是由誰來管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
16754.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
16775.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
三位都可以回答沒有關係的燕社伍本身現在目前還是農業部來負責主責好我希望這個事情相對明確啦好不好就是以後既然他已經是一個狀況而且他本來就是很多部位砸在一起嘛然後我們本期是特別在這個預算審查之前提出一些提醒啦就是說未來可能發生這些狀況的時候其實他應該是早一點部署嘛好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
16776.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
16795.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
這是本席的一個提醒那再問一個問題就是說之前討論馬太安這個事情的時候曾經有講說工程手段不可行可是後來變道其實也都開出來了對不對那未來如果再發生工程手段不可行等等的一些很難的問題的時候那應對方案比如說側村等等是哪一個單位負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
16798.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
16814.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
還是農業部負責嗎我先回答您剛才講的就是工程手段的部分那現在因為它還是在雨季下雨天的時候整個的便道現在還沒有便道只是去攤勘的便道而不是整個要未來要去降蛙的這個便道 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
16815.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
16835.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
那等到我們的過了這個雨季的時候我們才有機會往上去看有沒有機會去降蛙我剛講的問題是因為你工程手段不可行所以你可能要做其他的處理可能要提早撤存預警等等下游的部分就會由水利署這邊來協助水利署所以是經濟部決定要不要撤存等等嗎是這個意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
16836.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
16856.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
不是水利署是針對河道本身的一個整治的河道本身的整治嘛不是你講這些大概都是已知啦其實我謝謝部長還算回答的蠻詳細的我希望整個行政院體系啦不管是劉部長也好或者是經濟部農業部的代表陳部長也好都要去思考一下如果他這是一個很嚴重的狀況而且會影響人民的生命財產的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
16857.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
16881.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
這個事權的分配乾脆明確一點這當然不是你們三個可以在現場決定的但希望把它提到行政院的平台做明確的分工以後好超前部署也不用說等到相關的應變的時候大家再有一些狀況我想未來處理這樣相關的事情會更好這邊就做一些提醒希望行政院可以好好針對這個事情做明確的分工跟詳細的討論可以嗎可以好 謝謝三位辛苦了好 謝謝劉許廷委員 謝謝接下來請徐益臻委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
16892.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
16893.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
謝謝主席我們請陳主席長跟莊部長請主席長還有莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
16907.814 |
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16932.615 |
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委員好主席長好 莊部長好有關昨天主席總署有召集我們地方政府溝通之後發了一份新聞稿有提到說中央統籌分配款跟一般性補助款還有計劃型補助款不低於114年度的三項合計數那主席長你在跟中央這個地方政府在跟你們開會的時候你們並沒有提供修法的版本也沒有經費的估算表 |
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16933.095 |
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16955.731 |
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一切都是你們單方面的在解這個講解對外的說明那請問主計長行政院的裁劃法修法版本是要回到113年12月修法前然後提出新版的修法我們可以看一個表格就是這是在114年8月29號國土署公佈的資料114年度的這個通知分配金額是4400 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
16959.333 |
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16971.879 |
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61億然後115年的通知分配金額是8488億請問一下若依照行政院的院版重算的話115年度可以分配多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
16972.967 |
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16991.956 |
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我要跟委員報告我們昨天談的主要是市權的一個結構和原則的一個討論所以這個統總分配稅的一個部分它是這個財政部負責我現在請教您你手邊上一定有資料115年度可以分配多少這個部分是財政部負責請問一下中部長跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
16996.023 |
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17002.405 |
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我們行政院的修法版本明天會提報院會討論院會討論確定通過後我們會在會議的記者會跟各位報告不會比114年度少嗎所以是多少會有4600億還是4700億還是如表上所寫的8000多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17017.585 |
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17031.995 |
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跟委員報告我們是講說114年的救治就按照原來的財化法他中央統籌分配稅款是4676億但是加上一般性補助款跟計劃型補助款是一兆零131億那麼115年度就是根據 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17035.817 |
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17046.62 |
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去年12月通過的採劃法修正以後的三項合計數是1兆1683億三項合計數是中央統籌分配稅款加一般型補助款加計劃型補助款那我們修法的目標我們的修法目標就已經會把這個三項合計數釋出給地方挹注的規模會比115年度來得高因為時間的關係就115年度到底可以分配多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17065.371 |
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17086.213 |
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115年度现在就是依照1683亿只有1683亿可以分配依照去年12月底通过的财务法法我想请教一下根据主议总处的新闻稿强调不低于114年度的年度预算数这三项中央统筹分配算法跟一般性补助款跟计划性补助款 |
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17086.653 |
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17108.472 |
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看起來像是保障地方實際上就是一個障眼法因為中央財政收入本來就會隨著經濟成長的逐年增加所以統籌分配算法自然也會增大那你們現在保證這個114年度不會比140年度少也沒有保證要公平分配各位知道我們為什麼要修財化法嗎就是因為過去長期存在著嚴重的偏差 |
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17109.173 |
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17128.847 |
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民進黨執政的縣市拿得多非民進黨執政的縣市拿得少所以我們這次的真正的修法的目的是希望能夠公平分配可是看來行政院的修法根本沒有觸及最核心的公平分配的版本只是讓中央更加齊全又集全我們的公平分配比去年的版本來得公平這樣的版本修法我們怎麼同意委員您知道去年通過的修法版本以後 |
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17150.629 |
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各縣市增加的比例嗎我想剛剛提到的這些你就可以知道我們現在看起來事實上完全看不到中央的誠意也看不到你們修法真正要去解決公平分配的問題所以這樣的版本修法我們都不會同意那當然剛剛我想主席長有提到昨天的這個市權劃分的原則會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17156.616 |
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17177.517 |
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也很多縣市都跟我們反映你們只用一個不到800字的縮帖然後沒有版本 沒有公式 沒有試算 沒有清單然後完全沒有任何資料他們還要像賊一樣拿手機在偷拍簡報的資料然後地方的普遍反應就說這樣而且針對已經很多核定的重大建設的補助也被通知要調降 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17178.678 |
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17193.015 |
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那中央還暗示說院版通過之後就會恢復主席長這樣是什麼意思如果修法沒有通過那中央可以先這樣下修補助然後用恢復當作交換條件嗎這難道不是在逼地方要接受院版的才化法嗎 |
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我跟委員說明一下因為我們昨天討論的一個市權分配的原則大部分都是跟114年度相同所以一般財政局或者主計方面他們都非常的熟悉那請問一下昨天有沒有市權清單有沒有財務估算 |
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如果沒有的話什麼叫做事權花分誰能夠表達意見因為什麼都沒有嘛而且你下放的事權有哪些 |
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主席長 你昨天有告訴他們要下放的市權有哪些嗎還有呢 每一項的市權需要多少的裁員地方是不是能夠負擔額外的人事成本那你只講說什麼單軌 二軌 三軌你這些具體的目標都沒有講你要地方怎麼表達意見而且你們的新聞稿還特別提到說地方都普遍都同意了 只有少數幾個縣市事實上 據我了解 在座的根本沒有同意是因為就沒有版本要怎麼同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
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17279.395 |
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不是 因为这个部分最后的一个数据是明天会宣布但是昨天讨论的主要是原则的部分昨天请他们来开这个市权的这个划分的会议不就是真的是争笑吗不是 因为我们讨论的一个市权主要是比照114年度所以114年度项目大家都非常的熟悉那我刚讲的就是要下方的市权有哪些他们熟悉吗市权需要多少财源他们熟悉吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17280.74 |
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17286.984 |
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以114年的基礎來看的話既然都沒有那請他們來開會一點意義都沒有重點是你們事後還發新聞稿說大部分的縣市都同意這樣我非常不能夠接受一定要跟地方充分的溝通才能夠好好的來去實行我們這一次的這個市權的一個相關的工作也說一下將來的分配辦法還有補助辦法通通會再召開相關的縣市來做 |
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其實經過已經將近一年了你們現在才召開市權的會議而且是用這樣一個粗糙的方式我非常不能接受請這個主席長要好好的思考 謝謝好 謝謝徐議政委員我們現在休息十分鐘 |
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對 |
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謝謝 |
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響鐘 |
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17948.752 |
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17956.354 |
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好 我們繼續開會 請大家保持宿敬那接下來我們請許富奎 許委員質詢謝謝主席 有請我們主計長還有財政部莊部長請陳主計長 財政部莊部長委員好主計長好 部長好 |
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17978.991 |
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17987.996 |
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我想根據我們主計總書跟財政部的一個資料這個目前我們政府長期債務的餘額將近6兆元短期債務是4191億那整體位長的這個債務餘額有6.4兆那平均我們國人的負擔的債務27.4萬請教部長跟主席講這個數字正確嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
18004.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
18020.256 |
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我想不管是中央執政還是地方政府這個財政機率的重要性非常的重要我想兩位應該同意這個論調嗎那尤其當然我們現在國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
18021.757 |
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18047.863 |
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為了解決很多的基礎建設也好社會福利教育文化我們當然政府也必須投入很多的資金來做這樣的一個改善但是我們現在看到這樣的一個藍白二修財化法之後造成我們中央跟地方市權也好還有整個財務的結構也好財政機率蕩然無存主委長跟部長剛剛那麼多委員在問你們我們想我們行政院的版本也要出爐了 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
18048.843 |
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18075.402 |
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未來你們有沒有信心這個行政院的版本會被我們多數的縣市來支持我們這一次修法有幾個目標那這個目標事實上是對中央對地方都是好而且中央地方的夥伴關係事實上是更加的提升我們修法目標非常明確第一個我們希望國民的生活品質能夠更均衡不管你是生活在鄉村或生活在都市 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
18075.802 |
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18101.085 |
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他必須要能夠有一定的生活品質跟公共服務第二個我們的修法目標就是我們的錢權的分配要更合理也就是說中央跟地方之間的財政資源的分配必須要合理第一個地方要強的財政自主的能力那麼也要顧到中央的財政的韌性跟財政的穩健這個必須要做合理還有城鄉之間的分配要更公平不能讓富者越富 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
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好 部長那如果依據我們上個禮拜我們立法院通過的這個版本那卓院長也講了如果我們再舉債五千六百億之後那我們換算一下我們國人增加的負擔又多了兩萬多塊所以我們大概會變成我們國人每個人負債要高達三十萬左右 |
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18146.533 |
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那面對這樣一個困境那剛剛部長也講了我們過去要均衡台灣那我們也擔心許多的這個重要的重大建設尤其是南台灣的重大建設會受到衝擊影響那未來有沒有考慮把我們像農業線來好屏東線也好我們的農業漁業的指標這次有沒有把它放進來一併討論是的我們在邀請各地方政府來開會的時候各地方政府也都有表達這樣的意見尤其是農 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
18147.633 |
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18163.76 |
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農林業為主的都有價值我們所以這一次在分配的指標裡面會把農林榆木的產值放進去以及人口數也都會放進去這樣子才能夠均衡到地方的發展但聽起來是雙北跟北部幾個非農業縣都反對這個版本那以後怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
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這個部分我們必須要詳細說明我們知道就是說原來的分配的方式讓原來營利事業的營業額高的他獲配的更多那其實這就是工商發達的城市他本來的財政能力就比較強那我們應該財政那個財化法最主要就是要能夠均衡地方的發展 |
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以及做所謂調劑財政的營需那麼對於財政能力比較弱的部分本來就應該要透過中央統籌分配稅款給予比較多的一個挹注讓它能夠發展出來也就是所謂的要有一個均衡的發展各地區的國民必須要有一個基本的生活品質跟良好的公共服務這就是財化法本身就要有具備的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
18206.854 |
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18218.905 |
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我想這個未來的路還很長這個過程也很艱辛我想我們要堅持對的方向才能落實這個軍方台灣的一個理念副長跟主長請回那我們有請經濟部我們的賴次長好 請賴次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
18224.093 |
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18247.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
委員好市長我想你看到圖片上這個這是過去你在擔任水利署長的時候我們屏東這個東港臨邊加東沿岸的這個離岸堤那時候因為有水利署跟中央支持我想我們對於這個沿海的這個風浪的侵襲也受到很好的一個保護但隨著年代久遠已經都落下來了而且有些地方那個缺口太大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
18248.367 |
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18262.734 |
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這幾次颱風我去看了現場已經沒辦法發揮作用有沒有辦法盡快來加高跟強化這個縮小這個艱鉅這個我們絕對會加快過去感謝因為中央政府有一些能量 |
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18263.234 |
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18288.142 |
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有預算來支持我們的特別預算所以我們面臨在極端的氣候之下不管是比如說前一陣子包括恆春的這個東門溪的這個滯洪池也是在這個理念之下完成的那未來還有東港 恆春 萬丹很多的治水的工作那屏東縣政府已經有盤點出來優先秩序那我們也會盡量來協助屏東縣政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
18288.682 |
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18307.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
我知道我們有提出4年1000億的一個整治預算當然這個我們都希望我們的在野黨也要全力來支持這個畢竟治水不分藍綠我們能夠怎麼樣防害這個極端不要讓我們的極端氣候受到讓我們的環境受到影響但是我們也擔心這樣的一個採劃法的修法之後 |
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18308.86 |
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18338.022 |
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布裡面針對這個部分有沒有什麼樣的因應措施這也是我們很擔心的若是未來沒有足夠的能量的話地方還有很多需要協助治水的但是在這幾年在行政院的協助之下開密颱風我們就核定了差不多將近31億元的屏東的一個治理我前一陣子到屏東去周縣長也提出來有將近超過70億左右的一個預算的需求 |
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18338.542 |
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18366.565 |
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那我們會依照優先次序來做分別的一個輔助次長我想我們都朝前部署做這個因應極端氣候的一個準備那當然也希望中央能夠大力來支持屏東縣政府那尤其這個您在擔任署長期間我想我們系統性的治理從上游包含未來我們也要求水保署林保署到我們的水利署到我們的縣市政府整個從上中下游整個系統性的治水把我們這個最後治水的這個 |
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18367.385 |
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18394.836 |
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工程能夠把它做到這個盡量減少到我們的危害性我想中央也要發揮最大的力道那當然以我們屏東縣政府的財政該吃爛啦尤其明年最起碼少了40幾億那未來也期待我們中央能夠大力來支持是 謝謝委員指導其實從96年淹水治理計畫之後我們做了非常多的抽水站那些的抽水站都已經非常的老舊了所以我們就納到這個4年1000億裡面來希望說獲得逐步的改善 |
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18395.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
18402.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
我們也希望中央能夠持續的經費的挹注來協助地方好 謝謝好 謝謝許副國務委員接下來請何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
18411.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
18433.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
王世堅委員 王世堅委員 王世堅委員不在蔡奇昌委員 蔡奇昌委員 蔡奇昌委員不在游皓委員 游皓委員 游皓委員不在邱毅英委員 邱毅英委員 邱毅英委員不在蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
18435.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
18441.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
請張家俊委員張家俊委員張家俊委員不在請王振旭委員質詢好 謝謝主席有請衛福部理事長好 請理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
18471.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
18493.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
委員好女士長好針對這次花蓮馬太安這個菸攝乎在後重建特別預算的部分是有兩個主題要跟您來討論一下有關建立大型的這個集體災害之後的心理健康預防與治療機制還有就是加強化沙風化加沙災民及志工心理急救跟創傷復原的這個照護的部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18493.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18516.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
其實就是世界心理健康日是很重要的一個對大部分的人來講是重要性你知道世界心理健康日是哪一天嗎10月10號感謝委員今年的主題是什麼知道嗎今年的主題很湊巧就是人道緊急事件之下的心理健康就剛好符合我們台灣目前的現況沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18518.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18544.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
為什麼他要特別訂立人道緊急狀況的需求因為我們知道人道緊急狀況基本上分成三大種一個就是自然災害一個是人為緊急情況一個是複雜的緊急狀況這個部分這些包括地震 風災都算是自然傷害這些傷害其實對當地造成影響是蠻大的除了人命或者是身體健康以外心理健康也是非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18545.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18573.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
WHO就非常强调说没有心理健康就没有真正而且全面的健康所以他们的一般的估计有20%的人后面都会造成这样的困难跟困扰所以他们特别的重视希望能够针对这样的人道紧急状况之下心理健康能够更加强来保护相关的这些人群我们可以看到除了受灾害的人群以外在右下角我们看到的就是对人道工作者的相关权利跟权利的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18574.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18597.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
還有承受的壓力也希望共同來處理這個就是我們這次災區的這個發酵風災以後這些產值超人還有志工們這個就是我們希望能夠持續來關注的部分那我們也知道這次衛福部也透過好的機制來做災後心理健康預防跟治療的機制這個部分就是包括剛剛所提到的有關於關懷花蓮 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18599.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18628.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
馬太安這個院舍府的災民心理支持服務要全力展開那另外相關的這個救災英雄產值超人的要請他們能夠安心的來做處理以外呢也希望能夠有好的心理健康的支持方案那這部分等一下看部長有沒有一些執行的狀況或者是這個資源是不是有足夠來做因應的部分那我們稍微了解一下日本日本他們其實天災跟台灣比起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18628.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18656.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
甚至更多他們就委外做了一個有關於災害精神協助小組這樣的運作的模式這個運作模式裡面他們要求當有這些自然災害發生的時候需要在48小時裡面就要抵達災區來展開相關的服務工作還包括有精神科的醫師 護理師行政人員這樣的專業團隊來協助幫忙他們經過這30年來的執行發現成效非常良好所以他們很希望把這樣的這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18658.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18682.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
服務的過程流程還有服務的這些需要注意的事情能夠讓其他國家來做參考那我們期待台灣透過這一次的這些需求我們能夠持續的來強化這一部分所以我們今天才會了解說這次其實也編列了3600萬相關的經費不過主要是用在這個建築物的這些修補或者是醫療儀器的災後災損的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18683.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18704.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
跟這次的心理健康並沒有全然的關係所以才會想要利用這次的預算過程裡面的做一個主決議來針對於災後心理健康的議題希望能夠有效的來補助這一塊這部分可不可以請次長先做一個說明還有針對這個主決議的內容希望能夠接下來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18704.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18708.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
是 非常感謝委員對於這個問題的關心我上個月剛去柏林參加全球健康論壇確實現在目前也就是陳如委員剛剛所說的整個災後心理的重建的部分還有精神科的部分這是WHO現在非常重要的一個重點另外第二個委員剛剛所說的就是我們現在目前我先跟委員報告我們在第一時間當時我們就啟動了整個這一個災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18729.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18733.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
心理的這個輔導主要是由我們部立醫院跟我們的新建師他們來派員前往現在在我們的主決議裡面有提到這一個部分我們現在目前會在啟動我們現在目前地方的衛生局還有整個就是我們部立醫院這邊的一個相關的一個心理醫師的部分其實我們現在目前所需要照顧的不光災民其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18757.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18779.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
當時前往這一個協助的志工等等這些甚至包括我們的國軍其實事實上都需要類似像這樣的一個整個這個相關的輔導希望我們能夠完備相關的有關你心理健康的支持的部分讓不管是災民也好或者是參與的志工都能夠得到最好的協助非常感謝鄭旭委員對這議題的關心謝謝謝謝王志旭委員也謝謝次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18801.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18808.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
下一位我們請林思明委員發言好 謝謝主席我請農業部陳俊濟部長有請農業部陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18823.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18846.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
是 部長好 部長我們今天審馬太安溪特別預算我想這次針對這一次的災害重創花蓮光復香 許多家庭陷入困境在這樣重大的天然災害 我想我們大家都是命運共同體沒有什麼限時之分 中央也必須展現責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18847.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18871.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
所以本席也號召了新竹縣很多的民間的力量共同捐贈物資或者到現場去救災那麼我們災害的我們這一次的特別預算除了要讓光復鄉的鄉親重回正常的生活我想有一個非常重要之點就是如何利用這一次的特別預算的編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18872.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18879.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
我們防止這樣的事件再次的發生也就是說我們不僅要治標我們更要治本 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18881.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18895.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
那有關我們這一次這個林保署編列馬太安溪顏色湖整治的相關工程還有這個相關的工程還有農業復原還有復原重建這個統籌協調業務分別編列了14.3億9.2億還有250萬元合計總共23.5億我第一個問題要請問部長的顏色湖的整治是否可以做到治本 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18911.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18940.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
而不是治標我想我們現階段我們大概因為現在目前的整個地質不適合比較大的機具上去做降蛙的這個動作所以在短期之內我們還是用監測的方式跟預警的方式來處理可是中長期的部分等到我們的訊息過了以後那如果說我們的相關的機具能夠上到壩頂的時候那我們會嘗試做一些降蛙但是我要跟委員報告就是因為他三 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18941.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18965.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
那個馬太安溪是非常狹窄的谷如果旁邊的那些土砂在崩的時候就會形成新的顏色湖部長 剛剛相關委員的質詢你都講得很清楚了我本身也了解只是說我們這次編的14.3億是有關於馬太安溪顏色湖的整治工程你的內容因為剛才你講那麼多什麼現在可能沒有辦法基劇沒辦法進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18966.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18972.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
但是你這14.3億它的內容大概包含什麼項目你可以講一下我想第一個部分就是我們會進行就是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18974.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
19000.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
變道開挖先做變道的進行然後變道進行讓車子能夠進去以後機具進去以後開始嘗試做降挖的這個動作讓這個菸塞爾湖的本體的部分能夠解除現在目前的一個危機然後第二個部分就是因為每次下大雨就有一些泥沙會下來所以我們會在上游的部分做一些藍沙壩讓這些沙做一些阻擋 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
19001.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
19016.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
不會造成下游的那個河床越墊越高那這個部分我想都是在這個14.3億裡面要做的是 部長我想因為時間的關係所以你現在講14.3億就是你剛才大概講的這些項目對沒有其他的聽起來好像很簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
19018.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
19036.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
不過這個是一個非常困難的事情因為很困難嘛所以我想你這14.3億如何的讓這個就是房子很重要嘛所以我剛才一直強調說你如何把這一次的經費用在刀口上讓這種事件不要再發生嘛所以假設這不是假設我們現在很明確的問你很嚴肅的問你如果這14.3億 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
19040.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
19069.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
我们这个整治经费把它花下去之后是否可以保证说就一定可以有效的预防下一场大雨之后下一场如果再下一场又是这样的大雨来临我们绝对不会再有这样的事件发生我想我们花了我想花了这些钱没有人能够保证说以后不会再发生我刚才说的我至少能够做适当的减灾但是不能保证说以后不再发生 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
19070.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
19080.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
不能保證喔因為旁邊的這些砂石隨時都有可能再次崩塌那我只能就現有的驗射壺我可以做到適當的減災的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
19082.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
19109.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
所以這個部長這就很嚴重你現在只能減災所以你沒辦法保證說這個是類似的事情我們這次的錢花下去會不再發生天然災害就這樣聽起來很恐怖對 這些急降雨不確定因素太多了而且現況山壁就有非常多的土砂它隨時因為大雨 地震部長如果說你說沒辦法保證我要問你那你的監測系統是不是要做得很好對 我們現在就是在監測系統會去強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
19110.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
19137.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
是 所以你在監測有時候你要如何做預警我想我們在整個的堰車湖的湖面本身就有放一些水位計跟監測計的部分然後我們有攝影機的部分那如果還有跟氣象署聯絡如果急降雨的時候我們會隨時去評估所以你這14.3億還有沒有包含說未來要去增購一些比較精密的這個也包含在裡面也包含在這裡面都會去做嗎對 剛才講的監測的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
19139.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
19159.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
好 OK 其實部長我想這個你因為真的要很嚴肅的去面對這種事情如果說再一次發生我想真的是全國人民都不能接受的你一定要去力保說這種事情不會再發生了這一次編了那麼多的經費興趣我要跟委員說明一下馬太安溪的上游本身 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
19161.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
19187.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
馬太安的淹涉湖壩體本身貢獻的水量跟沒有馬太安溪大概50 50的所以那邊因為它是集水區的部分只要是下大雨的時候就很有可能造成所以現在還沒有下所以大家一直希望說利用這一次的預算編列下去農業部要這個要上緊發條了解我們要跟上這種事情不要再發生了好不好我們一直持續這樣做部長請問最後這個主席給我1分鐘我請主席講 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
19195.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
19221.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
主席長我看這次的預算法定上限就300億這次編列270億還保留30億作為備用我看到這個我們這個本條例還有特別預算的施行期間是自公佈日施行至116年的3月31日子但這個但書講說馬太安溪艷澀湖整治後續處理等部分項目則辦理至119年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
19223.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
19243.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
都要請教你 如果這30億就是後來沒有用你剛也回答楊群文說這個如果要用要再編列預算 要再去送交我們本院來做一個審議沒錯但是你現在就是說你這邊講說因為我們這個馬太安溪的整治是到119年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
19247.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
19269.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
整個條例是在116年3月31日它就結束了所以這30億是不是不管你以後如何編都只能指定它的項目就只能用在這個馬太安溪的艷澀湖的整治項目上不是 它就是整個那個華江沙颱風的一個整個一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
19271.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
19286.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
你這邊這個條例裡面的它不是只有馬太安溪馬太安溪是對 這個是菸社我從前特別條例裡面因為你講說你這個後續整治的部分則辦理至119年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
19289.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
19307.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
那你條例即便已經失效了但是你整個未來的三十億你還在所以我剛才問你說三十億沒用完因為這個整治部分是要一直辦到119年底所以這樣聽起來你三十億一定是要用在整治項目上面所以你看三十億到116年 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
19309.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
19322.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
119年你這邊寫119年底119是指那個已經有分配其他項目在做宴賽府的一個部分那個部分它可以做到119年那就是270億裡面所以這30億不限於一定是要做馬太 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
19329.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
19354.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
對 不限移 不是不是 它是整個整個那個條例裡面規範的項目都可以是 都可以是 所以如果說但是在116年度條例生效就是戒指之後的話它就要另起爐灶就要譬如說要動二倍金或者災害準備金這樣子而不是用這個條例我看你的預備金有準備你這個270億裡面有編一個15億的預備金 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
19361.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
19378.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
所以這30億未來動資到的可能性應該是很小了對 因為他還要透過預算程序再提出來還是要重新編列是吧是 才可以好 以上了解好 以上謝謝好 謝謝林思銘召委的發言也謝謝陳部長跟陳主席長的答詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
19388.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
19408.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
好 接下來我們請劉建國委員質詢我幫你記起來你剛剛超過3分48秒好 謝謝好 請這個人民會的主委還有公共工程委員會的主委好 請曾主委還有陳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
19410.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
19434.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
這次花蓮馬太安溪在歷經海淹鳳凰兩隻鳥的摧殘之後那造成關戶萬隆鳳林等鄉鎮相當嚴重這樣的一個災害各位都很辛苦本期在這次也提出一些主決議也是希望諸位長官可以來允諾那第一個就是說我們馬太安的這災情波及到許多原住民的部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
19435.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
19445.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
我要請教工程會跟人民會的主委是說中央重建匯報與馬太安西的這個事件從業小組是否有納入一定比例的部落代表席次這兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
19448.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
19476.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
中央的匯報專案小組原民會是成員之一是 怎樣 對不起原民會也是成員之一原民會也是委員還有各部會主要是行政院的各部會在執行特別預算的各部會所以已經有原住民的聲音了那受災地區呢光復鄉呢它有客家人 有漢人有原住民 阿美族原住民有三個部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
19477.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
19499.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
馬太安 太巴郎 阿塔莫不同的部落所以我們沒辦法說一定有一定比例的原住民學者或什麼原住民來當這個專案小組主委答覆 我覺得重建匯報有原住民委員會進駐了啦有 有比例嘛 對不對好 沒關係那馬太安溪的事件重建小組呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
19501.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
19530.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
這個重建小組現在就叫做中央的專案匯報是匯報然後有設執行秘書有三個副執行秘書還有各部會分成大概九個組在進行重建所以你的意思就是說這個中央匯報裡面有涵蓋這些小組是這樣嗎小組是不同的不同比方說環境部內政部這些組委員的部分包含就原民會也是其中之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
19533.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
19555.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
我只要跟主委討論因為我們太多這個在互見很多是在官員在看天下的角度那今天有這麼多部落當然原民會也是代表部落的聲音但如果可以把一定比喻的部落代表可以納進來 鈴鈴他們的聲音會不會更加精準 更加及時去做一些反應內政部跟原民會 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
19556.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
19569.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
都有到當地去辦理說明會了包括中繼載或者農業部委去辦說明會關於這個農田的這個重化或者是復耕都有當地一場一場的辦說明會了 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
19572.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
19587.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
說明會是一個程序也是一件事情然後專案小組必要的時候也可以邀請相關的專家或者是當地的人來表示意見但沒有辦法一定比例當作正式的委員這個是有困難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
19589.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
19606.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
博主我講一段你參考看看啦災害防救法第六條跟特別條例第六條都明文規定重建應尊重原住民部落與文化嘛對不對但現在最大問題就是沒有看到一定體制內的一個具體的一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
19607.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
19635.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
這個要點是行政院院會通過的要點那要點也是執行預算的主要是執行預算來成立一個匯報那關於原住民的意見當地每一個部會執行預算的時候就會辦理說明會參考原住民的意見不會說不考慮原住民的意見我再引用一個引力你參考看看很多跨部的匯報當中都有納入外部的代表慣例 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
19636.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
19644.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
包含實案匯報有地方代表廉政匯報有外部專家地方暢生匯報有更直接媒合在地的社群 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
19645.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
19674.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
應該只要相關單位願意就可以了這個匯報事實上在執行特別預算的所以如果要成立外部我們可以列席邀請來表示意見或後來做一些討論但沒辦法變成一定比例正式的成員在這個匯報裡面如果主委答覆我是可以邀請他們來列席聆聽一些意見那我想就是一個進展嘛這樣就可以來這樣處理嘛必要的時候我們會邀請但是主要執行的是各部會各部會在當地都在舉辦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
19677.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
19686.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
所以跟委員報告不好意思這個如果說納入這個匯報裡面當作正式成立而且要求一定比例那不一定是在地的原住民這個執行起來會有困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
19687.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
19707.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
不是 我在主委 我在組決議中也有特別提到了是不是重建小組中納入一定比例的部落代表席次但是你現在講說一定比例是有困難度是不是這樣就我們的要點已經通過了然後是各部會在執行預算的人他並不是一個在討論或者是說這個諮詢的匯報 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
19711.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
19717.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
他是真正在執行預算的匯報所以這部分要納入一定比例的這個成員是有困難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
19719.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
19743.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
那可以納入一定比例的列席代表嗎可以吧列席代表我們會邀請沒有不一定要一定要一定比例那到底是多少比例是有困難的大家當然是可以討論出來的啦所以這方面呢每個部會執行率算的是每個部會他們都到當地去舉辦說明會了所以那個如果任何意見事實上可以接納可以在那裡面來落實最起碼主委可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
19748.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
19772.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
同意我的建議把原住民的相關部落的代表納入在列席的代表裡面嗎可以吧原住民就原民會已經在成員裡面了不是不是你剛剛已經打呼我了嘛所以原住民就原民會就是代表就是那個會報原民會就是代表他是初席代表他是代表對啦他是初席但我沒有辦法每一次都有固定的人來列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
19774.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
19786.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
我沒有要求你一定要固定的人來練習啦這個是你自己多想出來的啦好不好你剛剛承諾我這個部分就照這樣來處理嘛應該可以吧我們必要的時候你們後面的原住民的主委已經給我點頭了你還沒辦法幫我點頭不是我 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
19789.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
19802.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
我是這個匯報的執行秘書是我知道了所以各部會是成員所以他們各部會本來就要負責去了解當地原住民的意見所以如果說在這個匯報裡面還有不足還要再反映那必要的時候我們會邀請我跟劉委員可以承諾這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
19804.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
19824.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
OK 好 當如果園民會主委也有邀請部落的代表來列席的時候也請執命來協助嘛 對不對 我們會跟園民會來商量OK 好 謝謝 好 那程尚我要請問園民會主委 是我知道這個諮商取得原住民原住民族部落同意參與的這個辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
19827.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
19849.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
這知道嗎知道因為上次這次災情不僅僅是一個部落有些事項是需要跨部落去處理如果僅僅是以部落為單位要處理這麼多事情可能會有些事項出現三不管的狀況所以我要請教主委是不是依據諮商取得原住民原住民族部落同意參與辦法在這個關西部落設置 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
19853.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
19878.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
跨部落災害災後諮詢平台協助當地部落加快部落事項推動與決議可以嗎這可以就是好幾個部落就成立一個跨部落的一個平台而且這樣的諮商會議是我能夠每次都做出這個諮商記錄然後由部落代表在重建小組的會議中提出納入災後重建計畫的審議之中可以可以啦好謝謝好謝謝主席OK |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
19883.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
19898.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
好 謝謝劉建國委員接下來請羅明財委員羅明財委員不在我們今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢現在進行預算提案的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
19900.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
19920.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
請議事人員宣佈今日審查預算案之審查項目及提案共36案預計宣讀時間20分鐘宣讀完畢後我們預計在2點半進行協商相關的提案如果沒有涉及的機關可以先行離席好 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
19922.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
19950.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
宣讀 宣讀中央政府花蓮馬太安溪淹塞湖災後重建特別預算案一百一十四年度至一百一十九年度其中有關目的部分請委員自行參閱處理表一收入合計兩百七十億債務之舉借兩百七十億一百一十四年度三十八億零五百六十二萬元一百一十五年度八十六億四千三百三十八萬元一百一十六年度八十五億五千七百一十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
19951.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
19953.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
117年度40億5600萬元118年10億2850萬元119年度9億0940萬元支出合計270億稅數270億114年度38億05600 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
19967.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
19989.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
五百六十二萬一百一十五年度八十六億四千三百三十八萬元一百一十六年度八十五億五千七百一十萬元一百一十七年度四十億五千六百萬元一百一十八年度十億兩千八百五十萬元一百一十九年度九億零九百四十萬元第一款行政院主管六億零四四百九十一萬八千元一百一十四年度無劣數 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
19990.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
20020.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
一百一十五年度三億七千兩百九十一萬八千元一百一十六年度一億三千六百萬元一百一十七年度三千兩百萬元一百一十八年度三千兩百萬元一百一十九年度三千兩百萬元第一項原住民組委員會四億六千七百九十一萬八千元一百一十四年度無劣數一百一十五年度三億四千七百九十一萬八千元一百一十六年度一億兩千萬元一百一十七年一百一十八年度一百一十九年度均無劣數第二項公務工程委員會一億三千七百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
20021.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
20027.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
114年度無劣素 115年度2500萬元116年度1600萬元 117年度3200萬元118年度3200萬元 119年度3200萬元第二款內政部主管 28億4100萬元114年度7億3800萬元 115年度5億9220萬元116年度6億3080萬元 117年度3億8000萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
20046.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
20050.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
218年度2億5000萬元119年度2億5000萬元第一項國土管理署及所屬28億4100萬元114年度7億3800萬元115年度5億9220萬元116年度6億3080萬元117年度3億8000萬元118年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
20065.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
20094.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
兩億五千萬元一百一十九年度兩億五千萬元第三款經濟部主管九十億九千一百一十五萬六千元一百一十四年度一億九千零六十萬元一百一十五年度三十六億六千一百五十五萬六千元一百一十六年度二十四億三千九百萬元一百一十七年度二十八億元一百一十八一百一十九年度均無劣數第一項經濟部五億兩千一百一十萬元一百一十四年度一億八千七百六十萬元一百一十五年度九千四百五十萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
20096.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
20101.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
116年度2億3900萬元117 118 119年度均無劣數第二項產業發展署2000萬元114年度300萬元115年度1700萬元116 117 118 119年度均無劣數 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
20113.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
20121.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
第三項水利暑期所屬85億元114年度無劣數115年度35億元116年度22億元117年度28億元118、119年度均無劣數第四項商業發展所3000萬元114年度無劣數115年度3000萬元116、117、118、119年度均無劣數第五項中小級新創企業所2005萬6千元114年度無劣數115年度2005萬6千元 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
20142.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
20147.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
116 117 118 119年度均無劣數第十款交通部主板44億2000萬元114年度4億4535萬元115年度21億4465萬元116年度18億3000萬元117年118年119年度均無劣數第一項交通部1億4000萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
20166.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
20180.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
一百一十四年度五百三十五萬元一百一十五年度九千四百六十五萬元一百一十六年度四千萬元一百一十七年一百一十八年度一百一十九年度均無劣數第二項公路局級所屬四十二億八千萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
20181.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
20189.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
114年度4億4千萬元115年度20億5千萬元116年度17億9千萬元117至119年度均無劣數第五款農業部主管43億零690萬6千元114年度5億零94萬元115年度8億2676萬6千元116年度7億6130萬元117年度8億4千4百萬元118年度7億4650萬元119年度6億2740萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
20212.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
20216.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
第一項 農業部適宜8540萬6千元 114年度1億6474萬元115年度2億9866萬6千元 116年度2200萬元117年至119年度均無劣數第二項 林業及自然保育署及所屬23億5250萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
20232.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
20236.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
114年度1億7120萬元115年度3億1270萬元116年度5億1610萬元117年度5億3950萬元118年度4億2650萬元119年度3億8650萬元第三項農業金融署 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
20252.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
20278.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
兩千九百萬元一百一十四年度無劣數一百一十五年度兩千九百萬元一百一十六年一百一十六至一百一十九年度均無劣數第四項農糧署及所屬三億六千萬元一百一十四年度一億元一百一十五年度一億零六百四十萬元一百一十六年度六千三百二十萬元一百一十七年度四千三百六十萬元一百一十八年度兩千八百八十萬元一百一十九年度一千八百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
20278.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
20282.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
第五項農田水利署10億8000萬元114年度6500萬元115年度8000萬元116年度1億6000萬元117年度2億6090萬元118年度2億9120萬元119年度2億2900萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
20299.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
20320.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
兩千兩百九十萬元第六款衛生福利部主管三千六百零二萬元一百一十四年度一千八百零一萬元一百一十五年度一千八百零一萬元一百一十六至一百一十九年度均無劣數第一項衛生福利部三千六百零二萬元一百四年度一千八百零一萬元一百一十五年度一千八百零一萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
20322.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
20330.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
116年度至119年度均無劣數第七款進一步主管42億元114年度4億1272萬元115年度10億2728萬元116年度27億6千萬元117至119年度均無劣數第一項資源資源循環數27億元114年度5千萬元115年度4億9千萬元116年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
20351.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
20360.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
21億6千萬元117年度至119年度均無劣數第二項環境管理署15億元114年度3億6272萬元115年度5億3728萬元116年度6億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
20366.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
20370.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
117至119年度均無劣數第八款預備金15億元114年度15億元115至119年度均無劣數以上僅參閱預算書第八至四十一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
20381.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
20402.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
有關正式別稅數預算所等以上機關別審查結果調整現在宣讀預算提案第一案 中央政府花蓮馬太安溪菸塞湖災後重建特別預算案總預算金額兩百七十億元 凍結百分之一請行政院一個月內提出專案報告送立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
20405.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
20425.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
第二案本災後重建特別預算案編列預算271億元凍結該預算1億元是行政院一個月內提出書面報告第三案會強化我國未來面對極端氣候致災時的應變能力行政院應參考如日本等國之經驗於三個月內針對我國 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
20427.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
20455.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
建立救災專責機構之可行性向立法院提出書面報告提案委員張宏祿等人第四案重建的核心原則應是尊重族人的生活選擇與土地使用方式確實落實諮商並取得在地族人的同意或參與讓重建方案合法合乎族人期待真正保障族人權利相關書面報告請行政於三個月內送立法院提案委員高金樹美委員等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
20456.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
20481.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
第五案 為確保本特別預算與公務預算能協調並行請全職機關在提出復原重建計畫時明確說明特別預算與公務預算的分工排成與第一階段預定進度並同步建立每日更新的重建資訊機制符合當地族人需求相關書面報告請行政院與三個月內送力法院提案委員 高進 宿美等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
20483.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
20508.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
第六案為要實質協助原住民族產業重建軟硬體制建設缺一不可請原住民族委員會及經濟部成立跨部會推動工作小組針對原住民族部落產業提供輔導以及修復設施設備書面報告請行政院於一個月內送立法院提案委員高金素美等人第七案本條例因以國家賠償法為基準 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
20509.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
20532.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
並在認定標準應做相關調整在本條例內農經受損從官認定並重塑辦理請行政院一個月內提出書面報告送立法院委員 高清 樹梅等人提案第八案請政府著重調整並研議心理輔導相關配套措施應立即派遣心理諮商師進駐於安置點等 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
20533.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
20552.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
接續規劃線上諮詢及實質諮詢之具體作為請行政院將順便報告於議會內送立法院提案委員高金淑美等人第九案要求中央災害防救匯報中及相關重建小組有一定比例的部落代表席次設置長設議程會議針對部落事項進行檢討相關會議記錄上網公布提案委員劉建國等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
20559.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
20580.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
第十案 請行政院及財團法人政災基金會同依水災災害救助總類級標準第四條第一項第五款但書規定從寬村里長依前述實際居住至證明以特別預算及政災捐款經費予以救助並請內政部協助花蓮縣政府政災捐款經費比照辦理提案委員鄭天才等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
20582.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
20606.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
此議案原民會應協助在地原鄉部落依據諮商取得原住民族部落同意參與辦法召開部落會議決議設置跨部落災後諮詢平台協助當地部落加快事項推動與決議確保重建尊重在地原民文化提案委員 劉建國等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
20607.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
20623.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
第十二案行政院公共工程委員會復原重建統籌協調業務預算數一億三千七百萬元凍結該預算一百萬元一個月後提出順便報告提案委員陳婷菲等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
20626.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
20648.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
第十三案行政院公共工程委員會復原重建統籌協調業務預算數一億三千七百萬元凍結該項預算一百萬元請工程會一個月內提出書面報告提案委員陳廷飛等人第十四案請行政院依花蓮馬灘溪煙澀湖災後重建特別條例第四條第一項第六款及第十款 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
20649.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
20660.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
將部分經費流用支應原住民族委員會原住民族委員會辦理文化資產復建及振興文化產業委員曾天才等人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
20661.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
20685.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
第十五案 花蓮馬灘菸塞湖災害顯示災後緊急應變與重建工作高度依賴工程專業人力請公共工程委員會於三個月內提報原鄉工程人才培育與留任制度之政策方向分年推動其層及跨部會協作規劃並第七項立法院專案報告提案委員鄭天才等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
20686.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
20702.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
十六案要求行政公務員公投委員會應將花蓮縣各工程的執行進度財務揭露狀況政府是否專款專用情形每三個月向立法院提出書面報告委員李坤城等人第十七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
20703.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
20722.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
本特別預算涉及災後治理橋樑搶修煙色湖監測及災民安置等重大工程有必要建立高標準的監督制度建井工程會與英江花蓮縣政府配合情形每三個月向立法院提出書面報告提案委員李昆城等人第十八案 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
20724.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
20748.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
受災民眾及其親屬能於災害發生後進行家園重建復原請內政部會商各災害主管機關嚴育於災害防救法中訂定災後復原價及相關配套措施提案委員蘇巧慧等人十九案為提供安置居民充足時間規劃或尋找適合未來永久居住之區域及其重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
20749.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
20765.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
原建起内政部国土管理署针对延长中继安置计划年限制可行性三个月内向立法院提出书面报告提案委员张鸿祿等人二十案过去中继屋新建仅以提供暂时安全居住之房屋为主此次中继屋 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
20767.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
20783.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
規劃興建結合受災區域之歷史文化技藝之需求原請內政部國土管理署針對如何讓本次興建中繼社區體現居住居民之需求及其相關規劃三個月內 鄉立法會提出書面報告提案委員 昌鴻路等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
20784.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
20800.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
二十一案馬太安淹災湖災害不同以往淹水等級之災情為避免類似災害發生所致之生命財產損失國土管理署應緊述會同地方政府研擬都市排紅標準提升方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
20801.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
20823.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
請內政部國土管理署三個月內提出完整書面報告送立法院提案委員李坤澄等人二十二案為確保花蓮未來面對天然災害時供電穩定原請經濟部督導台電公司提出完整強化方案包含設備更新自動化提升加速變電所建設增援設備援助等 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
20824.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
20836.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
及改善地下化管線維修問題三個月內提交順便報告送立法院提案委員李昆城等人二十三案水利署及所屬水利設施預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
20838.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
20855.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
85億元凍結該預算100萬元一個月內提出書面報告提案委員陳提菲等人24案考量全球各地近年因極端氣候致災建請經濟部水利署於未來重建本地區之水利設施使因氣候變遷 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
20856.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
20884.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
因氣候變遷重新檢討相關防洪標準三個月內向立法院提出書面報告提案委員張宏武等人二十五萬光復鄉以光復唐產馬灘濕地大農大富平地森林園區為主要觀光景點請經濟部商業發展署對於如何規劃在地商圈與觀光景點結合之商業活動帶動遊客前往之意願三個月內向立法院提出書面報告提案委員張宏武等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
20886.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
20900.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
二十六案交通部道路及交通預算數一億四千萬元凍結該項預算五十萬元一個月內提出書面報告提案委員陳廷飛等人二十七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
20901.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
20911.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
為維持政策一致性與公平性 原請交通部評估運用丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別預算預備經研擬丹納斯風災災區受損汽機車之衛助協助方案兩周內提出具體可行規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
20922.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
20941.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
公後續執行提案委員郭國仁等人二十八案請交通部就辦理受災戶車輛受損報廢登記衛助方案及相關延伸措施提出完整經費評估申請認定機制執行成果後續改善規劃的書面報告三個月內送立法院提案委員林坤城等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
20943.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
20958.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
第29案交通部公路總局及所屬道路及交通預算數39億3000萬元凍結該預算100萬元請交通部公路局一個月內提出順便報告提案委員陳亭飛等人30案 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
20959.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
20977.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
農業部辦理各項補助之流程不應單一局限在農會應包含各鄉區各鄉區公所或災後重建單一服務窗口原則請農業部一個月內研議修正相關資訊傳遞及申請流程書面報告一個月內送立法院提案委員高進素美等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
20979.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
20989.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
三十一案為確保相關經費能落實政府協助受災農民之目的其農地恢復至能耕種之狀態並讓當地農業與農民回歸受災前之形態建起農業部農糧署針對災區農業復建之整體計畫向立法院提出書面報告提案委員張宏祿等人 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
21003.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
21029.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
32案 卫生福利部应参考日本灾害派遣精神医疗队之运作模式建立系统性质心理创伤支援小组提供大型集体灾害发生的心理急救灾害的心理修复疗愈长期复原与任性培力以及社区的心理重建辅导协助灾民集体恢复身心健康与生活功能的全人照护 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
21030.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
21056.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
服務委員王振旭陳雲等人提案313案請衛福部會同交通部民航局等單位應積極整合相關系統卑劣偏鄉和山區無人機送藥機制常態化應跟地方政府衛生局合作當緊急任務發生時可以處理請衛福部以兩個月內提出完整書面報告送交立法院提案委員李坤誠等人314案 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
21057.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
21081.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
请卫生福利部就无人机在灾害期间执行送药任务将面临之地形限制通讯覆盖载具性能任务风险与跨部会协作流程等问题进行全面性盘点与改善规划并研提具体强化策略与推动期程于两个月内提出整体书面报告送力法院提案委员李奎臣等人35万环境部闭交墙 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
21082.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
21109.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
相關揚城及空品的監督並公開資訊讓民眾可以掌握空氣品質同時召開跨部會平台會議針對災區揚城問題進行處理提案委員劉建國等人第三十六案環境募引指數建立災後廢棄物物管理SOP量化推估方法佔置場規範分類與去化流程及跨部會協作區域調度 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
21110.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
21130.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
調度機制同時建制相關資料庫三個月內提出書面報告送立法院提案委員李昆成等人補充第一案提案委員高清處美等人第二案林月琴委員等人宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
21637.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
21660.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
好來我們現在繼續開會好那我們先從這個第一案開始第一案改組決議沒問題有麥克風嗎那個委員已經同意已經同意那個改組決議沒問題修正通過感謝主席謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
21668.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
21695.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
來 現在要發的是哪一案第二案那要先發呢來 第二案也改組決議建議免以凍結改組決議 委員你同意委員同意 好來 修正通過來 第三案行政院行政院麥克風遵照辦理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
21697.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
21722.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
招案通過好 謝謝來 第四案遵照辦理好 招案通過來 第五案委員同意修正審查改備查審查改備查委員已經同意委員同意 好來 修正通過第六案遵照辦理好 招案通過好 第七案 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
21725.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
21748.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
要修正喔 來第七案 這個以後要早一點給喔好 這個是有文字修正有問題嗎很牽涉了嗎來 第七案公共設施國家賠償法 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
21757.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
21784.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
來 這個哪個單位 是工程會嗎內政部來 內政部書長在哪裡這文字修正有沒有問題來 書長這有跟委員有討論過那可以嗎可以文字可以對好 那我們就修正後通過來 第八案有文字修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
21787.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
21815.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
已經同意修正文字 謝謝好 修正通過來 第九案第九案 來一樣嗎有文字有做修正嗎有跟委員溝通過了好 好 那就修正通過第十案包主席第十案衛福部遵照辦理第十案好 那招案通過第十一案 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
21818.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
21844.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
十一案遵守辦理遵守辦理好 遭案通過第十三案第十二案建立免禮凍結委員已經同意改組決議好 修正通過來 第十三案建立免禮凍結改組決議委員簽名同意好 那就修正通過好 第十四案 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
21845.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
21873.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
是建議修正文字Design實際上我這邊是實際上有做文字修正嘛來 那政委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
21890.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
21892.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
那有跟委員有跟委員有溝通過了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
21894.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
21915.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
沒有 就尊重政委的意見我們就遵照辦理好 那就遭案通過好 遭案通過來 第15案林建基委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
21916.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
21944.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
來 林委員謝謝主席 各位同仁 大家好我這邊的主決我把它改成主決議但是這個主決議我這邊唸一下好不好相關單位你們可以委員有文字修正嗎有有文字修正嗎所以我整個唸一次好嗎等一下因為我們剛剛有唸過有文字有修正嗎對那修正在哪裡在這邊有文字修正嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
21947.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
21966.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
不是这个我们现在第15案对我们有文字修改有修改对 我念一下好不好那没关系你们有跟委员有沟通过了吗他们就拿了一个东西来修正的我们遵照办理修正后修正后遵照办理最主要你们东部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
21968.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
21988.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
是 我唸一下好了大部分一樣就是花蓮馬太安 煙色湖的災害顯示災後緊急應變與重建工作高度依賴工程專業人員 人力然後涉及撤離動線規劃 道路享修水文監測及坡地穩定的評估等任務然而東部及原住民地區長期面臨工程專業人 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
21989.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
22004.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
才不組織結構性問題導致重建進度遲滯工程品質及地方溝通成效均受影響依立法院預算中心113年度分析報告東部及原鄉地區土木工程專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
22005.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
22023.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
職缺長期難以補食制度缺乏誘因設計與培育體系馬太安災後重建經費須由工程會統籌編列一億三千七百萬元微弱原鄉工程人才不足之問題未獲改善未來各項災後工程人將面臨 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
22024.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
22051.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
執行效率與品質風險是以因研議辦理東部地區原鄉工程人才培育計畫作為提升國家災害應變韌性與原鄉重建能量之長期政策請工程會於三個月內提報東部地區原鄉工程人才培育計畫之政策方向分年推動其成及跨部會協作規劃向立法院提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
22057.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
22061.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
書面報告並定期向提案委員進度報告以立監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
22063.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
22086.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
我們目前的計畫是針對東部地區已經有這個計畫它已經涵蓋原住民所以這裡如果只限定原鄉的話那要不然東部地區及原鄉地區不是 我們只辦一個案是所有的原鄉或者是在花東地區的已經有一個案明年要執行的所以請不要寫原鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
22090.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
22117.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
我目前是在花蓮車站要辦一個土木我指的是說東部大家對東部的概念差異很大基本上那個台中然後一直到台中花蓮大部分都已經原鄉你都可以來報名所以我們要辦一個土木的學分班所以在花蓮車站那邊辦你花東縱谷的都可以來你不要限定原鄉海岸線然後我沒有說限定但是你東部及原鄉地區這樣都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
22121.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
22131.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
主委的意思是東部地區就含原鄉了就是範圍更大林委員剛剛我們主委的說明書面 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
22138.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
22162.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
是還有那個專案報告應該是提書面報告提書面報告然後原鄉不要就是已經辦了你原鄉本來原住民都可以來報名他沒有限定說是誰但我的意思是說那個我怕你們都只辦在那個都市就是花蓮市或台東市但是原鄉會被落掉為的就是讓很多人花東縱谷可以搭區間車到晚上到海岸線 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
22163.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
22182.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
在那邊上完課馬上又回家老師是跟宜蘭大學的老師合辦所以宜蘭大學那邊也要搭車來花蓮來上課因為花蓮花東這邊的大學是沒有土木系所以是集中在花蓮車站的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
22184.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
22199.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
教室來辦這個是那我想請教一下那除了花蓮你們以後有可能在這個架構下那比如說縱谷縣其他的就是原鄉地區也有可能嗎明年度預算不知道能不能審通過還不知道我是憑在明年度的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
22200.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
22225.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
主委的意思是說他選車站是因為交通方便不是只有在市區辦然後東部的這個涵蓋範圍也比較大會比原鄉還大那林委員那要不要就按照這一個剛剛主委的一個說明你再看一下我們這個主委的這一個說明明年度有編在年度計劃當中了請支持明年度的總預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
22235.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
22250.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
因為我是先前有溝通結果大家都會跟我建議宜蘭我想說那個概念上差很多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
22258.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
22278.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
好 那林委員我們是不是按照指委的說明就是改成東部地區工程人才培育計畫我們就原鄉這兩個字我們把它拿掉就是文字裡面有原鄉的我們都把它拿掉這樣範圍會更大 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
22290.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
22308.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
來看一下這個要 林委員有簽名嗎所以我看看一樣嗎主委你這些看過了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
22311.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
22335.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
原來改的嗎 那可以嗎原先把它改成東部地區好 那林委員我們就修正後通過好 那就按照這個部會修正後通過第15案我們就通過 修正後通過第16案 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
22342.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
22355.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
好那照案通過第17案遵照辦理好那照案通過第18案18案有文字修正嗎在這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
22370.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
22384.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
那這個是要增加文字好那這個是勞動部勞動部那就OK嘛那就修正後通過來第19案 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
22387.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
22413.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
19案遵照辦理內政部嘛內政部遵照辦理好 遭案通過20案遵照辦理好 遭案通過21案遵照辦理遭案通過22案遵照辦理好 遭案通過23案武力法委員的提案我們跟委員溝通作文字修正委員已經簽名了水利署嗎對改組決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
22417.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
22420.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
好 那修正通過24案水利署 專案通過25案25案是經濟部來 專案通過 26案 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
22444.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
22457.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
二十六案交通部跟吳立華委員有溝通過所以改組決議文字也稍作修正委員有簽名了嗎來 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
22461.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
22477.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
跟委員辦公室的執行長有說明過了有說明過了是有確定是確定那是改組決議然後文字有做修正好那改組決議修正後通過對來第27案 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
22483.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
22509.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
27案有跟文字修正委員有簽字修正通過來28案28號遵照辦理責任通過29案也是一樣跟吳立華委員辦公室的主任大概有談過了他也同意是改組決議然後文字做修正改組決議修正後通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
22511.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
22539.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
三十案三十案是農業部的遵照辦理好 專案通過第三十一案也是農業部的遵照辦理好 專案通過三十二案衛福部三十案衛福部遵照辦理好 專案通過主席 對不起三十二案的部分因為這是第一次有這樣的經驗所以我們很期待能夠有好的一個成果出現所以希望能夠至少上個半年左右可以讓我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
22540.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
22555.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
機會去看到這樣的成果那半年再回覆王委員33案也是衛福部 照案通過34案 照案通過35案環境部 照案通過36案 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
22571.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
22591.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
我有同意了36案有文字修正那提案委員已經簽名了修正後通過那就結束了 謝謝委員就是要留幾個那我們兩位委員留下來謝謝所有與會的官員 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
22597.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
22609.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
有需求我們會有意上去啦,沒關係啦這是我們第一次辦,辦得好以後再進行一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
22616.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
22641.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
不是 它偏偏跟原鄉還是有差別它偏偏跟原鄉還是有差別它偏偏跟原鄉還是有差別它偏偏跟原鄉還是有差別它偏偏跟原鄉還是有差別它偏偏跟原鄉還是有差別它偏偏跟原鄉還是有差別 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
22644.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
22668.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
好协商完成请议事人员宣读协商结论宣读特别预算案协商结论第一案修正通过改为主决议第二案修正通过改为主决议第三案第四案照案通过第五案修正通过第六案照案通过第七案第八案第九案修正通过 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
22668.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
22684.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
第十案 十一案照案通過第十二案 十三案修正通過改為主決議第十四案照案通過第十五案修正通過第十六案 十七案照案通過第十八案修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
22686.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
22711.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
第18案修正通過第19案 20案 21案 22案照案通過第23案修正通過改為主決議第24案照案通過第25案照案通過第26案修正通過改為主決議第27案修正通過第28案照案通過第29案修正通過改為主決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
22712.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
22727.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
第30案、31案、32案、33案、34案、35案均照案通過第36案修正通過宣讀完畢請問各位委員對協商結論有無異議沒有異議就通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
22741.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
22762.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
本次会议做如下决议一说明及询答完毕二委员质询未及答复或请补充资讯请相关部会于一周内以书面答复委员另要求期限者从其锁定三委员陈昭志黄珊珊苏清泉黄建斌邱振军张家俊陈素月蔡奇昌邱益颖王美惠傅坤琪陈玉珍罗明才 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
22763.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
22769.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
4.審查中央政府花蓮馬太安溪煙色湖災後重建特別預算案114年度至119年度,除照協商結論通過外,取均照列。 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
22785.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
22798.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
令债务之举借随从协商结论减列数调整税数正式别预算随从以上机关别审查结果调整请问各位委员对以上决议有无异议没有通过 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
22800.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
22828.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
中央政府花蓮馬太安溪煙色湖災後重建特別預算案114年度至119年度審查文據擬據審查報告提報院會討論院會討論前須交由黨團協商院會討論時有本席補充說明請問各位委員對以上決議有無異議沒有好 通過6 本次聯席會議議事錄授權由本席核定後確定請問各位委員有無異議沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
22829.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
22837.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
本次會議議程已進行完畢還有不在場委員補題書面質詢一併列入記錄刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理散會 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
22866.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
22866.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
是 |