| IVOD_ID |
170450 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170450 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-14T17:27:34+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-14T17:38:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:59 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad2906fa72ef919987c919e58399d81a684f067b6a62f29a68c32e327bd700272f4a3623a33b8b275ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
17:27:34 - 17:38:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員洪孟楷、楊瓊瓔、王鴻薇、蘇清泉、林德福、廖偉翔、黃健豪、陳玉珍等52人擬具公民投票提案主文為：「您是否同意政府制定法律，針對性侵害犯罪、凌虐幼童罪、以及高額詐欺罪、複合型態加重詐欺罪，增設由法院宣告並依法執行之特別刑法制度（鞭刑），以嚇阻犯罪持續發生？」請公決案等6案。二、行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席提出中聯油脂大豆沙拉油事件及食安監管機制缺失檢討專案報告並備質詢。（7月14日下午）三、7月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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好 謝謝主席我們請行政院左院長好 請左院長備詢然後這個石部長也一起陪同石部長請備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.048 |
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李委員好 院長好 部長好6月30號衛福部是接到中聯郵的通報本評比有出現超標的問題7月1號之後我們就開始跟台中市的衛生局展開調查其實最早時間在5月13號5月13號如果南橋檢驗出來確定有問題馬上通報的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
55.854 |
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75.291 |
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我們就可以減少很多的時間至少提早一個半月的時間來做這個調查問題也不會這麼多的出去所以5月13號是一個關鍵點另外一個關鍵點是在6月15號6月15號是中聯找了這三家福壽 福茂 泰山這三家一起開的所謂的一個平保的會議這個平保會議後來調查出來是所謂的蓋牌會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
79.787 |
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98.252 |
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他把所有有問題的應該要這個停止製造的這個有問題的結果呢他們是不是這個下了一個所謂的不公開不停線繼續復檢直到真的確定只包不住我之後然後呢才往上通報 報給這個衛福部這兩個時間點 能不能請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
125.602 |
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院長來說明一下我們當時當然知道就是七月之後我們當然知道六月十五號這三家開了這麼一個會議那這個部分應該先檢調再做內容的調查我們沒有辦法去問到他但我認為我問到他就是有人問到行政上去調查依照他們現在既然會延遲通報刻意隱匿大概也不會跟我們講實話 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
126.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
151.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
但是我們希望他跟檢調的調查當中一定要據實來說所以我剛剛說我們要求他一億六千五百二十萬的罰款他繳並不是說我認為他很好是我們今天他如果不繳很多的委員又認為行政院你看公權力沒有辦法張揚沒有辦法把公權力執行下來所以我們說他繳了至少這個部分他先履行他的責任義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
181.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
至於檢調調查的方面包括6月15號這個會議是不是真如同今天媒體所說的這麼惡劣真的是在蓋牌甚至在擴大它把這個它的產品銷售出去這檢調調查會一定會調查的水落石出因為時間點太過巧合了嘛在6月24號的時候中聯郵要舉行這一個股東會然後呢5、6月也剛好是這三家泰山福壽福茂在舉行這一個股東會議那剛好這段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
182.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
202.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
他們都隱匿不報那結果呢讓不論是中央或是地方大概少了一個半月的時間來做這個準備那也讓有這個問題的油繼續流入市面那我再請教一下那我們是從7月1號之後開始去追查但是呢這幾天我自己的感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
202.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
224.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
就是媒體上面一直會在報說哪一天這個哪一天的油又出現問題的哪一天哪一個P號又出現問題的我簡單來講光是這幾天啊7月7號泰山有通報有問題7月9號南峽通報又有一批有問題7月12號呢福碩又通報又有一個P號有問題現在總共有五個P號有問題那請教一下院長啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
225.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
246.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
因為這個連環報會讓大家覺得說那到底哪一天才能這個有問題的油才能夠全部檢查出來到底哪時候我們才能確定說所有的這個4月到6號的這個4月到6月所所生產的油確定是沒有問題了不然是一報再報的話對於大家的這一個對於食安會影響是非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
248.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
254.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以我們在7月1號剛剛委員說過了就要協同台中市政府去查了之後要求7月3號的中午12點 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
256.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
上游這個全部要下架了 全部要下架 第一層就下架了可是現在也是七月中旬 不停地又有這樣爆出來到七月六號的時候 我們又要求下一層的還有這個當時是401 後來444的產品也要預防性下架但到七月七號 它爆發第二批有問題的我們認為這應該不是單一的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
299.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以我們在7月7號爆發之後,7月9號立即在行政院院會通令,就全部要做更強硬的行政院院長是阿,那7月12號又有扶送又再通報阿對,那個時候已經都要下架了那所以說,現在有通報的都已經沒有在市面上了嗎?對 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
300.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
324.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
確定嗎4到6月但是他的所有下游的產品咧比如說7月7號通報的是5月12號製造的7月9號通報的是5月10號所以跨了四五兩月所以我們當時候院長才會宣布4到6月都全面下架所以我們現在是逐一去檢驗那所有有問題的你們說一週內可以全部檢驗出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
327.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
351.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
現在我們有的就還有21P的油然後有52個 整體加上321個這個下油的產品我們會一起驗那我是說我剛剛看報告是一個禮拜四內全部的油有沒有問題都知道了就等於剩下的另外21個P號是不是所以有一個確定的時間點下週四在哪的時候 下禮拜幾今天禮拜二 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
375.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們是昨天宣布的所以下禮拜一是幾時間下禮拜一之前所以就不要再發生就是說這個市面上又有什麼未爆彈出來又說哪個票有問題哪個票有問題就不會下禮拜一之後就不會有這種新聞了嗎如果再有業者驗出的話其實我們都已經下架了因為四到六月都下架了都預防性下架了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
376.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
390.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
對啊,不然這樣子會有一種民眾會覺得說怎麼好像這個使用油問題連環報那實際上都是4月到6月這些油問題的油但是呢,因為你們還沒有完全檢驗出來所以這幾天可能還會陸續有這些新聞出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
391.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
398.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但是都已經下架了都下架了好那現在就是說這一個問一下有關這個消費者權益的問題那現在有關消費者他有消費者啟動團體訴訟了嗎或是說消費者就這個問題有的這一個提起這個訴訟的一個數量有多少你們有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
412.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
425.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
行政院的消保處會委託民間的消費者的團體比方說消基會等等現在有兩個團體正在接下當中他們也要透過內部的程序消基會跟台消會消費者保護協會台灣消費者保護協會 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
427.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
444.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
他們也有這個意願 大家經過內部他們的程序他們有這樣的意願那如果這樣他們就能夠承接委託給他們來進行團體訴訟但是目前我們接收到一些爭議的事件到昨天看是有三十幾件三十幾件 民眾就是說要打這個有關這個問題有訴訟有三十幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
450.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
472.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
申訴有三十幾件現在還沒有到處理訴訟的事件可能數字會持續的變化我這個是昨天在開會之後的一個數字好 那請問一下這個除了這個消費者之外還有另外一群是這個他們算是因為上游違法問題而受害的這些廠商那他們權益怎麼受到保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
475.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
501.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這剛剛有委員提到我們是不是要有一個風險管理的基金的方式但是現在我們是沒有這樣的一個機制來處理這些問題現在的食安基金只能墮銷團體訴訟的費用他跟這些廠商是沒有關聯性的那這些廠商他只能再去跟這些他的上游不管是中聯或是三家再去跟他們在做球場目前的機制是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
502.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
530.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
目前機制是這樣 但這廠商如果像這幾家福壽他們這個也有隱匿通報的這個行為遲延通報的行為他們也要負起責任所以地方政府也都刻意罰款有一些是比如說像南橋他自己也延誤了通報但是在下面的還有一些廠商更下游的還有一些廠商所以他們就是只能目前就是他們的上游提起申訴就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
532.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
545.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
因為他們也不是個人他們是一個法人或是公司團體他們應該循其他的法律途徑就不適合用團體訴訟但是我們會我們可以從法律請律師的團體來協助他們做這樣的權力的救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
568.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
剛剛我有聽到有委員在問我們這個食品雲在這次的問題的事件當中看起來是沒有發揮一個功效的就是說系統它沒有辦法及時聯動然後產品的流向跟下架的清點還是要依賴業者自主通報還有我們的衛生局的人工追查 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
568.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
585.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那你說要這個業者自主通報那現在業者就跟你延遲通報啦然後你說要依照人工稽查哇 那這個系統沒辦法去連線沒辦法及時連線我們有數百家的下游業者還有這麼多的產品受到影響那請問一下我們這時評在這一次的問題當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
588.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
615.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
一點作用都沒有嗎這也是我們現在必須深陷檢討一個數位的治理是建立在理性的機制上我們花了十幾億對是建立在理性的機制但如果真的碰到這套廠商世俗引力我們也真的沒有辦法發現所以未來如何將他把他串接的更嚴密讓他必須盡他的義務盡他的責任在這個數位裡面所以我們在他如果不報上去你拿他也沒辦法我們強化就強化我們數位治理 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
615.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
637.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這方面一定要用制度來改變我有看到院長有提到這一塊但是我想要問院長就是說你的強化數位之餘在這個食品雲這個項目當中要怎麼去做處理跟委員說明我們過去的食品雲是著重在產品的流向的追蹤原料從哪裡來然後下游廠商 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
649.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
654.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好,時間到,我們謝謝李委員謝謝李委員,謝謝左院長 |