| IVOD_ID |
17045 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17045 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-18T10:50:00+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-18T16:22:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
05:32:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609612f51c1280cff900aee7aa50ecf5b6d914d0d15f34b2c02a5845cbdfb2731a45ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院民進黨黨團，針對第11屆第1會期第9次會議報告事項第33案委員丁學忠等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」院會所作之決定提出復議。是否有當？請公決案等16案。二、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、行政院公共工程委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（11月18日上午）。三、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（11月18日下午）。四、11月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:50:00 - 16:22:00 |
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歡迎我們繼續開會接下來請吳麗華委員質詢徐毓臻委員請準備謝謝主席韓院長有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
665.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
685.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
吳委員好院長好 辛苦了院長我上次來這邊做丹納斯特別條例預算質詢的時候有跟您提過就是我這幾年的心得就是極端氣候之下災害年年有但是特別條例並非年年有 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
686.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
706.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
我們公務預算所預備的這些災害準備金也不見得能夠去容納做好這些年年發生的災害案件今年很特別因為繼16年前的《莫拉克災後重建條例》之後今年有兩個災後的特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
707.945 |
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723.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
除了上一次我們三讀通過的丹納斯及728特別條例這一次我們又有了所謂的馬太安煙色湖的災後特別條例我們來看一下像丹納斯特別條例它的預算規模是600億 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
725.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
746.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
它的範圍是苗栗西部以南一直到花東總共有12個縣市這一次的馬太安顏色湖的特別條例我們看到之前用災行法的時候它公告的就是馬太安它的比鄰的像是 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
749.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
772.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
萬榮鄉 光復鄉 還有鳳林鎮那我為什麼要特別這樣子講就是這個特別條例的第二條他其實有提到他說以行政院公布的災區為準所以我第一個問題想要請教一下院長就是這一次這個馬太安顏色湖的特別條例它的災區包括哪些地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
773.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
796.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
工程會來主管報告委員因為華家沙風災的時候工程會有單獨開立受災的公共設施災損的需要的專案除了花蓮之外各縣市如果因為華家沙颱風受損的會依照這個專案來申請工程會來受理各部會來補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
798.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
822.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
來做協助那關於堰舍湖的部分就是針對馬太安溪因為堰舍湖導致的災害所以特別條例只適用這個範圍那就包括三個鄉鎮就是光復還有鳳林還有萬種並不是其他的縣市或地區因為花家沙颱風不會受到關注不會的工程會另外有開立一個專案在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
823.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
852.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那所以意思就是說這個命名啊因為它就已經命名了嘛就是它叫做馬太安顏色湖的災後特別條例嘛對花蓮馬太安溪那我就是想要請教我舉個例子我在這邊列舉一些案件同樣是花蓮同樣是光復萬榮復進的像我以秀林鄉來講那圖上應該有顯示像這個河人部落的野溪整治 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
853.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
880.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
跟上游的土砂威脅那個土勢我們可以看得很清楚其實在地居民都很緊張或譬如說崇德部落管制站上方邊坡那個很危險我現在唸的都是還沒有處理好的還有我經常經常被族人問的就是富士十二林部落後方他的山坡都很不穩定他們需要一個很穩固的擋土牆 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
881.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
905.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
富士村的第10林有80戶200人他也是受到上方整個裂開然後危險的一個威脅又或者說在秀林道拉斯部落野溪整治他們都告訴我說非常迫切因為旁邊有很多住戶或者是說像那個三戰村三戰部落他那個土石堆積很高因為我前天才去 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
906.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
930.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那個地方匯流他們也很緊張又或者說像景美村 嘉灣部落 嘉明村他們長年的淹水的問題因為台鐵每次到那邊就會淹水又或者說榕樹部落它的邊坡滑動我也親自去看過那個去年0403地震之後前年就非常的可怕到現在都還沒有處理好那請教一下那這些要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
931.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
947.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
報告委員關於一些野溪啦這個邊坡等等野溪或者是說縣管河川那就由縣政府來處理中央管河川就中央政府來處理那邊坡的部分有的是屬於園民會的有的是屬於農業部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
948.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
972.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
但是你剛才所提到的河仁、崇德這一帶因為容易崩塌嘛會影響到公路跟鐵路的運作我剛剛唸的大概也都是有兩年三年了那個交通部跟公路局跟鐵道局還有農業部他們都經常性的編列相關預算在該部會裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
973.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
998.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我特別念出來就是因為沒有被處理好沒有被處理過我繼續講萬榮旁邊的濁西好了像濁西他們也都很關於秀姑蘭溪橋還有太平村他們也需要一個新建的橋樑這個都是前幾年的災害或者是說他們的花六八線花七三線的道路又或者說像濁西 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
999.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1013.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
你看這是前年他的那個大牌到現在也沒有改善好很多的案件我之所以特別念出來像濁西堤防你看他已經跟路面一樣高了秀蘭橋的興建 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1015.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1042.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
也是一直說到現在也沒有山里豐平野稀疏峻塞谷農路復建其實我會這樣子講的原因是民怨很高因為他要去他的農耕用地這裡面有的是縣道有的是鄉道然後是縣管河川現在我就是要談這個部分因為他們都會報災那您也知道都有系統的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1043.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1062.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那麼有一些案件就是永遠排不到這個就是我講的如果因為風災所引起的那每一次風災工程會都會開立專案給地方政府包括縣市政府跟鄉鎮公所都可以提出來包括公共設施都有提有時候就是沒有被系統納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1063.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1080.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果有核定應該都會執行就是比方說屬於他的相關部會他們沒有被核定連被納入都沒有那可能不會光是我講丹納斯的我不好意思講出來我也在這個地方質詢過依舊沒有被系統納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1082.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1099.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
但那是風災因為剛才提了涵蓋幾乎一半以上的縣市了其實我只是要表達其實我們這樣子全國原鄉跑我們看到的案子太多有時候像我做了將近要6年 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1100.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1122.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
六年 五年 四年 三年 兩年很多的案子永遠都排不到也不知道為什麼但是族人不明白那我要說的是以我們這次的萬榮鄉民曆村為例那我們也會在想說到底很多的案子它的優先機制到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1123.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1139.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
像這個923那一天其實村長跟地方的族人就有跟我們陳情我也在隔天很快速的有發函給我們的水利署具體的訴求說未來加高堤防 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1139.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1157.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為河床已經抬高二他說可不可以臨時趕快加太空包防汛塊等措施你看族人他要求的具體非常訴求很清楚但是我要講的是水利署也很認真 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1158.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1181.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
立刻在9月26號有發文給九合分署公文副本給我訴求就是按照我的訴求非常明確但是可能公文就存查了後來48天之後發生這樣的事情我們很難交代族人我們很難交代族人所以像這樣的案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1182.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1211.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們極端氣候下我們不知道哪一天哪一個地點會發生什麼樣的事情我們不知道就像這次的煙色湖我們不曉得說會造成光復鄉這麼嚴重的災情然後也不知道11月怎麼會來一個颱風又造成名利村這樣的災情那我怎麼知道12月會不會來一場大雨1月會不會來一場大雨現在沒有被淹到的高處的這些住戶下一次會不會被淹到都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1212.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1228.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
但是我們只知道人家告訴我們我們就要趕快有動作那我其實是想了解說這樣的一個機制我不太了解所以未來案件處理的優先順序認定標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1229.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1245.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我可以跟委員報告兩件事情過去中央管中央管河川縣市管縣市管河川但是剛剛你提的很多例子當中有很多是縣市管河川但是我們認為這樣也不可以解決問題無法解決問題所以我們明年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1246.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1262.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
四年變了一千億就是要協助縣市館河川去改善他的工程但是我們會逐年把該做的部分做進來那至於您說的有一些建議案或許現在還沒有辦法納進來第一年但是會不會努力在第二年第三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1262.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
1287.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那你現在委員要知道的是這個優先順序排列的選擇方式到底怎麼樣是不是經濟部跟水利署的標準來答好來部長請因為中央管我們當然會按照這個河川的他的優先順序緊急急迫來做那因為縣市管河川基本上我們是用編預算來補助地方政府來施作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
1288.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
1301.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以優先順序事實上地方政府他會提供他比較重要的一些依據給我們來做一些參考當然像委員這樣子我們也會跟地方政府來做溝通的確有這樣的需求希望把這個東西編進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
1303.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
1329.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
其實我要說就是那個圖也許可以秀出來我們看那些衛星圖非常多的地方的部落它已經是緊鄰河岸因為這些年來坑溝變野溪野溪變河川雖然上游是林保署下來是水保署再下來是水利署但是看起來那個河道其實都一樣的寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
1330.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
1351.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
就像我們當年不知道氣象說玉穗溪25毫里的這樣的雨量怎麼會釀成山洪爆發衝斷整個明霸克路橋不知道這個就是極端氣候那我只是說當我們知道現在極端氣候之下我們不能夠不理會在地人的擔憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
1352.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
1371.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
很多地方河床跟部落都騎高那我舉個例子像我們在地人很直觀的想法看到那個砂石車每天傾書傾書他們都問我們說可不可以把那些砂石去堆到我被流失的土地再築一道堤防來保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
1372.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
1394.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
但是我们这样的诉求我们很难告诉他们说我们的七一计划法又或者是我们的土石采取法又或者是我们的营建剩余土石方处理方法这些等等的法令我们很难告诉他们但是他们只知道说为什么政府要一直清书一直清书一直清书当然我们可以理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
1395.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
1413.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
可是我覺得老百姓的聲音也要被接納所以我剛剛聽到院長您這樣說我很高興就是有編列更多的經費多給林保署多給水保署讓他們聽到族人的要求的時候竹堤房 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
1413.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
1426.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
主戶案做親書讓他們能夠也有足夠的經費來做那我是很高興但是還有一些方法要處理的就是老百姓對於親書的這些想法有沒有可能被採納 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
1429.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
1454.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那要考慮到工程上安全的問題他必須把堤防做起來兩邊做堤防這要有工程的計畫如果只是把土往旁邊堆那很危險大雨再下來水再下來他一樣造成不可預知的一些狀況所以剛剛您說的我們就是要地方政府你要提出計畫來我們用4年1000億的改善縣市館河川的工程來補助地方政府但這個經濟部水利署 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
1455.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
1481.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
會監督要求地方政府要落實到整個工程的期限跟品質就是要嚴格監督因為我們不是議員也不是地方的代表我們就是只能夠站在這個地方希望我們的中央能夠透過法令或者是透過公文能夠去監督要求這些我們講出來的東西委員你認為哪個地方有需要你也可以跟我們反映我們可以跟地方政府來做協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
1482.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1508.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
現在名利村的族人當然他們會想說他們到底有沒有被納入到這次的馬太安顏色湖因為他們看到光復有一些未鑄金的部分他們還沒有等到他們說既然我們都是屬於馬太安顏色湖的災後重建特別條例是不是所有的一些包括未鑄的部分都一樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1509.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1531.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
是 我剛剛在報告裡面也提到了現在鳳凰颱風導致的鳳林萬隆等地在本條例災區範圍所致的災損我們都把它納進來了所以完全比照光復鄉如果是名利村這個部分是有那我想聽一聽就是像他們那些八戶不曉得會有什麼樣的因為他們要重建嘛他們會有什麼樣的福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1533.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1562.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
應該不能講福利啦 對不起我口誤報告委員 這個就是比照燕射湖災害的光復鄉那時候處理的情形未住金的部分每戶有35萬那如果有汽車報費是補助5萬機車報費補助1萬那還有其他當然相關部會都有一些租金補貼或者是利息補貼等等都有那最重要的一筆未住金就是行政院的10萬加沒有門牌號怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1563.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1589.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們看個案來看有實際居住他們當然實際居住有水電證明就是實際居住跟因為我們原住民住的房子絕對不是我們一般人所想像的那個對他來講就是他每天生活的房子好 謝謝吳立華委員的質詢也謝謝卓院長相關部會所長備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1600.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1621.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我們接下來請徐宇貞委員質詢沈博洋委員請準備謝謝院長我們請卓榮泰卓院長再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1631.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1660.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
徐委員好 卓院長好卓院長其實這次馬太安溪的艷澀湖的災難的發生看起來絕非單純的天災而是中央政府的政治操作也導致了這一次災害的損失我們沒有政治操作那我說給院長聽其實這一次其實在我們中央政府苛扣地方的一般性補助款的時候在今年六月我們在財委會就邀請各縣市政府的財政的代表來 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1661.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1665.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
他們當時就提到希望這筆款項趕快撥給地方為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1666.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1690.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
因為汛期將至 颱風季將至所以說有可能導致他們要用來做基礎建設作為防洪治水的相關的經費都沒有了所以他們可能會導致他們要救災的時候沒有辦法先做一些預防的措施所以這也是因為在汛期前沒有辦法先完成預防的工作導致 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1691.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1707.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
地方財政在災害來臨之前就失去了整備的先機所以這個部分我們在預算通過之後我就要求該給地方的這個方工室請問是什麼時候這個今年預算通過之後那一定的預算什麼時候通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1708.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1724.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
8月底前追加預算通過可是我們這個是訊期是到什麼時候開始是6、7月就開始了那你9月你通過之後那什麼時候撥給地方他們什麼時候可以去做其實9月23發生災難的時候事實上都來不及那當然我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1724.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1743.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
我們現在要做一個亡羊補牢的工作所以說我們在重建特別條例的今年編列了270億的預算作為6年的一個計畫我們可以看一下因為這次我們編列的是300億的經費但是我們這次只有編270億 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1745.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1772.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那還有30億並沒有編進去等於一開始就先放棄了這個30億的這個可用的空間那我們可以看一下這個預算結構請院長看一下我們的經濟發展支出是192億占大概71.4%社區發展及環境保護支出占55億大概是占20.7%但最直接影響災民生活的部分的社會福利支出僅有3602萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1775.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1802.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
占0.1%所以越南我當然能夠理解啦就是重建需要兼顧公共工程跟產業復甦但是災民的生活是不是能夠恢復是不是能夠維持才是最重要一個成敗的關鍵所以在經濟發展支出比例這麼高的狀況之下是不是排擠了也壓縮了對災民最直接而且最急迫的生活的協助那我們可以看到在這個特別預算裡面就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1803.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1825.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
衛福部所僅編列了3602萬大概不到0.1%那用於清理家園跟修繕衛住金也只編列5億所以災後的重建我想絕對不會只是照這個蓋橋修路更包含我想更包含了災民長期的一個心理的修復 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1826.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1836.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
還有他們的一個醫療支出還有醫療設施的穩定的運作還有弱勢家庭的社會的支出那請問院長特別預算裡面社福支出只佔0.1%那請問一下中央要如何來補強這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1842.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1865.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我們還有一些對人的補助是用到這個捐款散款裡面有將近14億是用在對人的補助那剛剛我現在提到的這幾個部分請問一下就0.1%而且您可以看一下報告裡面的0.1%還真的不是用來照顧災民的不管醫療或需求它是用來做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1866.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1895.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
光復商醫事這個建築物的災後復建還有醫療儀器設備災損的復原他還主要這3600零二萬是用來做這個完全沒有我剛剛講的就是針對我們災民的弱勢家庭的社會支出還有醫療的相關需求那因為我們還有三十億還沒編列嘛所以我想說行政院是不是可以檢討一下增加對災民的社會福利的項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1896.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1918.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
避免這個馬太安的重建工程讓大家覺得有重工程親生活親照顧而且呢也沒有照顧到人民的這個社會福利跟民生教育的相關經費那當然包含有哪些我先說明一下比如說災民的生活補助還有弱勢照顧的服務還有心理創傷的協助長照跟身障服務的補強 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1920.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1939.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
以及教育補助跟就學支持的這個設施還有災區的民眾的健保費還有國民年金的保費是不是要減免或是是還繳還有就業的輔導措施因為很多人都說他因為回去協助救災所以有可能工作也沒了那針對這個部分請問一下院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1942.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1966.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
跟徐委員再說明一下因為這一次在這個特別預算裡頭我們主要是在針對這個光復鄉的大概有10個醫療院所包含衛生所這些設備去補強他那另外呢在災民的心理重建的部分我們已經先從我們自己的公務預算撥了600萬先到這個花蓮縣的衛生局然後去 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1968.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1985.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
讓在地的醫療院所每一個鄉都有認養每一個村都有認養去做長達一年的心理的評估 諮商 關懷還有需要轉介的服務等等這些都把心理治療需要的時候都介入了這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1985.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2010.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
第二個我們在贈栽目前我們收到的善款是13.9億目前在生活重建家園的部分大概已經發出2485戶金額6億多我們後面還有一些預算我們也陸續提了包含長照的需要身心障礙者的需要還有心理 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2012.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2038.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這個長期的社區的復原剛剛提到的那個一千萬也會在這個裡面有一個長期我們還有其他的善款會來好好的運用都會用在災民的身上院長剛剛部長有特別提到就是大概心裡的這個金費大概是有六百萬這是公務預算還有這個震災基金會那邊又一千萬那請問一下為什麼在這一次的我們的這兩百七十億的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2040.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2063.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
特別預算裡面並沒有針對衛福部這邊並沒有針對我們剛剛講的這些項目來去編列預算真正來照顧我們的受災戶因為現在看起來至少有3000多戶的受災戶他們就衍生了不管他的家庭還有他的子女以及他可能有些在外面工作可能因此失去工作而且我們在整個預算當中也沒有看到有 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2064.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2093.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這個教育部跟勞動部也有一起的來參與這樣子的一個重建的一個計畫我想這樣看起來就整個都大概都是針對工程的部分而沒有針對人的部分針對災民那可能剛剛講到說用一般的預算那我只是想要請教院長為什麼我們有這樣的一個經費而且剛聽起來600萬要針對一整年的這個心理的重建的經費相對真的是少之又少270億當中居然沒有真正來照顧災民的心理還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2094.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2116.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
教育還有他的社福的相關作用兩點跟我們報告 600萬是一般的年度預算 公務預算不是這個特別預算另外剛剛部長講過了我們還有13.9億 將近14億的善款那個部分就已經把這個部分都編列在裡面了我想那個由政財基金會來支應所以院長認為只要這邊的經費是已經足夠了是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2120.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2139.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那如果假設經費不足夠的話我們其實還有30億的我們還有15億的預備金我們還有30億的額度包括這個在內的需要我們還有30億可以再做出那如果是真的我們在現在的善款的捐助不夠的話院長是不是可以承諾也會從我們的15億的預備金或是30億的額度裡面來去支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2142.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2152.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
當然我們按照實際的需要預備金會先行來做這些準備那請院長這個部分一定要針對我們的災民我覺得對他們來說最重要的是災民的重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2153.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2177.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
不只是他的房屋或他的各方面當然除了這個之外我們看到家園清理跟修繕的未租金只有5億大概就以每戶10萬來計算我們看一下現在其實很多地方我們都看到其實房屋都是全毀而且被黑泥整個高達兩公尺所以像這樣子的狀況之下10萬塊能夠補助他們嗎能夠修復嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2180.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2197.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
家園的位住我們還有五萬還有二十萬加起來有三十五萬對但是呢對很多從這個整個幾乎全毀了包括他的家電全毀他的房屋也全毀這樣子的話三十五萬院長真的覺得夠嗎而且兩百七十億當中我們其實這部分是巔列五億 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2197.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2216.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
無法這樣比擬如果跟過去比較起來這次還是左右增加的我們看它實際的受災情形因為一般的水災跟土質流下來把整個房屋是不一樣的這次有左右增加已經比過去更多但是剛剛我講的一個房屋全毀了都被淤泥全部都這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2218.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2232.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
然後它的家電可能都沒有了聽起來35萬應該是沒有辦法恢復家園而且我們中繼屋的預算只有3億元所以量能也是明顯的不足所以現在很多災民他可能都還住在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2233.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2259.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
親戚家或是住在我們的學校活動中心那這個大量的災民無可住的狀況之下中紀務的預算只有3億是不是能夠足夠這樣子的量能中紀務的需求跟地方的族人還有原來原住戶也談了很多是不是請主委再做說明報告委員就是說有些不堪居住的在重災區估計大概70到80戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2261.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2273.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以現在我們要先設置大概中紀屋40戶左右那如果有需要那個地方可以蓋到150戶所以來安置中紀屋是沒有問題的那因為重災區是已經那這3億的經費夠嗎3億的經費夠嗎夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2278.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2293.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
就是這部分沒有問題因為中基屋嘛 並不是正常蓋好房子那將來因為它在重災區都是在農地上面我們在跟當地人討論是不是要做重劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2294.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2314.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
或者是就地再復耕是很困難因為最高高到兩三公尺高了啦所以有可能商量說是不是由政府來取得作為整個馬太安溪防洪的第三道防線或者是作為殖林來避開將來馬太安溪輸進可能要長年輸進他的養成會很高如果說提防 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
2316.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
2326.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
蘭蘭這邊種一排這些樹木的話至少能夠當作是一個防線至少陽成不會那麼嚴重所以這個還在跟當地討論當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
2328.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
2352.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
最後再請教一下院長就是說您可以看一下這個表格就是我們這一次這個馬太安溪的這個重建的這個特別條例我們在整個的計畫是6年的計畫那但是以這一次來看光鳳凰颱風這一次的來襲就造成名利村又整個的這個被淹沒被土石而且很多是石頭淹沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
2353.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
2375.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以表示說其實在馬太安的部落這邊的族人其實他們最擔憂的就是說這個重建工程長達六年可是事實上都一直有可能有颱風有汛期這樣的狀況之下到底在這段時間內我們到底有做什麼樣一個臨時的措施讓他們可以因應這樣子未來有可能相關的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
2377.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
2403.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
終結一句話就是我們要針對馬太安溪未來潛在的危險性我們要全程的掌控所以我們要有幾個變道未來我們可以更實際的掌握到馬太安溪上面的變化那如果適合做什麼的處理處置我們認為在工程許可技術許可上面我們會往這個方向去想請工程會主委再來做說那個六年期中一項就是聚酪型的污水處理因為要取得土地要設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
2404.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
2419.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那麼要跟花蓮縣政府來討論是那個工程大概要6年那其他的高規格的提防也不用6年所以他會目前馬太安溪的北岸那個提防是比較好的是高規格的提防然後這個提防是比較脆弱 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
2419.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
2439.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
所以這是當務之急啦那其他就是要長年的疏軍那剛才院長也說明現在有人跟機具能夠到達那個堰塞湖所以這一條便道呢大概明年六月之前希望能夠打通人跟機具都可以上去進一步監測有必要的時候進行疏洪那這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
2440.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
2455.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
明年六月就可以到達了那其他就是撤退計畫我想這個可以避免再遭受一次的洪災這樣的災難因為其實我想馬太安的居民他們都非常的擔心光一個鳳凰颱風又造成名利村這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
2456.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
2477.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
一個損失而且這個秦平均村長事前已經都有預警也多次的提報但是呢 中央官員都跟他講說沒有問題就像剛剛有些委員在詢問的時候中央官員也都說沒有問題可是事實上就是發生問題了所以還是希望我們能夠料底重演而不要用這樣的一個方式就說都應該沒問題 沒問題事實上就馬上就發生問題了我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
2482.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
2508.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
主要是那個堤防就是馬太安溪的河床已經跟堤防一樣高了甚至比堤防高了所以它只要有一點雨它有可能到任何地方都會漫流過去像明麗村那裡那裡本來就是比較高的地方堤防做得比較好是沒有再做一段堤防那是破壞所以那個地方是比較高的當然那個比較高沒有堤防整個都那麼高的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
2509.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
2535.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
水剛從那邊進去我想您剛說明的我們都清楚但是重點是怎麼做怎麼做讓大家真的能夠把我們的重建的工程做好最後請您看一下一個圖片就是我們未來這個馬太安橋的要重新整建我們可以看到現在是已經完全斷了這個經費高達35億元還是希望我們這筆經費要花在對的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
2537.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
2556.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
好 謝謝徐宇貞委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 各部會首長備詢 謝謝好 我們接下來請沈伯陽委員質詢 鄭天才委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
2569.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
2573.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
謝謝院長有請卓院長 謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢三國院好院長好這個剛剛前面其實也有聽到就是我覺得今天當然我們能夠針對馬太安這個重新特別條例來討論當然是好事但還是有很多政治的口水 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
2598.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
2619.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那很多人會講說就是這個預算的問題這讓我想到一件蠻重要的事就是我們在這一個整個防災跟撤離的這個過程當中不管是我們的村長、里長等等之類的如果他們有更充分針對這些的訓練的話其實說真的也有可能會有更好的減災的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
2620.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
2637.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
但是其實在去年的時候不管是我們的民防的學校民力的訓練在內政委員會的時候都被凍結或者被刪除我覺得這其實是一件很糟糕的事情因為任何的人不要說是村長里長任何的人只要在當時有受過訓練或者有更好的意識 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
2638.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
2658.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
或者我們比如說我們本來規劃的緊急應變中隊等等之類的這一些都有可能會有更好的減災效果所以這件事情讓我想到雖然我等一下有很多細節要問但我現在覺得最麻煩的事情是等於是去年我們針對預算針對民力民防這部分的訓練支被砍被凍結這件事情它已經實質產生了影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
2659.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
2683.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
但接下來我們在編列預算今年要編列明年預算的時候就遇到了舊版的裁劃法我說的舊版指的就是今年通過那一個還有現在才剛通過的熱騰騰的這個有問題的裁劃法這兩個裁劃法會讓我們在編列預算的時候出了非常大的問題這個等於是說你不用等到我們在審查預算的時候在那邊砍預算 動預算它在一開始我們在編列的時候就會出問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
2685.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
2710.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
一旦出了問題之後接下來不管是我們制度上的一個建立我們相關的訓練或者我們在甚至擠壓到其他的預算方面這個明年如果又有因為天災是我們不知道是不可控的它一旦發生的話那又會出問題所以我想先問比較大的一個問題我知道前面培育委員有問到一點就是針對我們現在又有一個新的惡法的財化法的一個通過現在行政院有什麼因應的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
2711.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
2739.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
是剛剛陳律委員所說的上禮拜五通過的這個我說黨版的 我們黨版的財化法編列上都會出現問題我剛剛說過了他會造成我們如果按照這個標準來編明年的中央政府總預算會出現五千六百億的舉債那已經超過公債法的上限所以這個已經不是有沒有辦法執行的問題是有沒有辦法編列的問題問題已經呈現在這裡而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
2741.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
2761.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
上禮拜五的那個內容完全沒有辦法解決過去所謂公事錯誤垂直水平分配不合理不平均的這樣的狀況所以這個也是執行不得的所以真的是自愛難行我們沒有辦法來執行這樣的工作所以我是希望說禮拜四當我們送出行政院版本的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
2762.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
2786.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
委員們能夠再詳細的看看這個內容我們這個版本的內容能不能更普遍照顧到各縣市是不是在中央地方的市權分配上更合理是不是在各縣市的分配更平均同時中央地方能夠有更加強的夥伴關係等等這樣的原則如果能夠從事來檢視的話那至於禮拜五的那個就讓他我想技術上用議事處理是可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
2788.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
2807.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
需要做到什麼程度行政院現在保持各種的可能性但是我唯一的就是依照那樣的版本我們編不出預算無法執行我真的覺得我覺得重整一下這必須要讓國人知道去年我們遇到大量的凍結跟刪除預算它就是已經讓你不能夠做事了 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
2807.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
2834.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
然後接下來新的這個財化法會讓我們連編列預算都出問題這是第二次了第三次是現在這一個財化法它根本就讓你連編列都已經不能編列了它已經超過了這個舉債的上限所以這樣的一個問題我說真的我其實在民間已經看到因為我自己是法律出身的我看到越來越多的法律學者都已經在討論就是說這個行政院如果遵守下去的話這個行政院會違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
2835.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
2854.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
就比如說行政院要用違法的方式去編列預算但是後面又不能夠執行應該有的項目我覺得這絕對是一個大問題行政院如果要編這樣的標準內容的版本我們的主計總署就不會同意因為他超過了公債法財政部也不會同意所以我們編不出來退一萬步講 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
2856.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
2868.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
如果我們違法編出來了真的違法編出來了我們承受這樣的責任但明年我當中央政府被大幅的拿走統籌分配稅款又大幅的拿走這個一般型補助跟計畫型補助之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
2869.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
2886.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
中央的國庫會縮小到很小明年我們沒有辦法做很多現在應急性的再說如果明年還要做特別預算的話那我們明年還必須更擴大中央政府的財政雖然他不列在公司案法裡面但實際上就是擴大了整個國家的財政 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
2887.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
2906.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那大家不是說不要再留子孫為什麼一定要做這樣的工作那拿去給地方的4156億到底做了什麼事情到現在沒有一個地方可以清楚的告訴他多拿了這些他要多做什麼事情我們只是告訴他說中央地方的事權要分清楚地方就跳起來營養午餐不能出 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
2906.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
2921.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
水電費不能出他都沒想到他幾百億去專注在這個一兩億兩三億的這個錢上面所以中央地方的事情一定要清楚明年我們將沒有辦法在這樣的情況底下有任何的中央調節能力我們也不能再擴大政府的債務了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
2922.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
2950.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我必須要講這個聽起來已經是一個我們在法律講這個叫做例外狀態例外狀態的意思就是說我記得在去年的時候我記得是傅昆玺有講過要讓政府找不到官就找不到有人來做官這個已經體現在很多的人事案上面了接下來其實現在我們面臨這樣的作為它就已經在癱瘓整個政府的財政了然後它要逼迫政府用違法的方式去做政策上的一個執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
2950.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
2979.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
然後甚至到我們剛剛講的已經沒有辦法編列預算來做事這個事情如果說政府直接被瘫痪掉我們跟其他國家不一樣不能說政府關門就關門而且我們畢竟是面臨有在外患外國威脅的狀況之下所以如果是這個樣子的話它如果是一個例外狀態我認為行政院是可以考慮很多學者的建議然後來做這個相對應的回擊那不然的話這個國家沒有辦法運作下去這不是開玩笑的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
2981.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3008.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
當然我們現在因為2026已經快到了我們必須一定要現在正視這個問題但因為畢竟花蓮這個事情災民還是很重要所以接下來我問一些比較細節性的部分第一個部分就是我放在這個上面就是中繼屋的問題剛剛其實前面就已經問到了我就不多重複就是說已經有先盤點比如說有八十幾戶他們有這樣的一個需求然後我知道應該還有進一步再問說到底有誰因為八十幾戶是我們看到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3008.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3028.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
但是實際需要的目前聽起來應該是40但是我看到這一個相關的報告裡面有說在年底的時候大概能夠建造到是30那什麼時候才能夠到40、50不一定要到50啦因為目前有需求的說到40那這個期程大概是什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3029.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3054.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
因為中繼屋它是一種組合屋的概念所以速度非常快那除了這個30戶之外還有台塘那邊宿舍用了大概11戶所以有需求會很快速而且那塊地也夠大那塊地有1.5公頃那麼估算可以如果要完全使用大概200戶以上都沒問題所以地已經找好了有需求隨時可以加速來完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3055.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3077.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我之所以問這個問題還有一個原因就是因為0403那時候也有一些中繼的需求但是0403地震那個時候那一次有一些中繼的中繼屋它是很晚才開始出現這當然跟需求有關係因為我知道前面有比較多的租屋補助甚至有些人往外圍去居住但這次有比較不一樣是因為第一個有部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3078.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3100.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
然後也要尊重原住民他們的一些共識目前來講跟這些討論的過程當中有沒有符合他們的要求這一部分內政部很這個內政部跟當地都有召開會議那麼基本上有共識的就是不能離開光復鄉太遠所以台塘那塊地已經夠近了 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3102.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3122.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
而且位置也比較高就是如果說再有洪水我們不希望有但是那塊地是比現行的受災區那邊已經夠高了他們已經一開始就跟當地溝通了所以會逐步來解決當地的需求包括將來是否要異地來做耕種那個也都是後續的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3123.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3138.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
不過剛剛講到溝通這件事情就是說我們在跟我辦公室也在花臉有時候會遇到災民講說他們對於現在的政策不是那麼的清楚就是說其實我們現在該有的圖卡該有的論述 新聞上面我覺得是講得清楚但有時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3138.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3163.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
不是大家每天都在翻報紙對不對或者每天在LINE上面接圖卡這是不可能的事情所以像這一個我知道農業部在這個禮拜五有應該要召開一些相關的說明會那不知道因為目前來講第一個就是我們剛剛講需求就是說他們對中繼屋等等之類的那他們對遠一點他們也會想說那個霸體現在應該怎麼處理這個跟林保有關然後有一些是跟水利署有關在經濟部這一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3164.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3193.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
有沒有一種比較一體式的說明能夠在當地讓大家更能夠明瞭現在政府的政策因為行政院有成立專案匯報已經統合了各部會成立了各功能分組有設執行秘書有三個副執行秘書其中一個副執行秘書就是行政院東部服務中心的洪主任所以三個副執行秘書都會跟相關的部會去進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3194.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3220.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那將來我們會依照委員的意見那會在關戶鄉那邊在設置固定的跟東辦合作設置固定的場所來接受村民的這個詢問或者是直接比較完整的說明會那我們會去那邊來辦理就是除了農業部的內政部的或園民會的將來整個比較完整的政策跟規劃也會去徵詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3222.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3247.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
這個地方的意見跟說明這個是有必要的對 因為我們畢竟我們大家都是人民公僕啦我們就是當人民有這些反應的時候他們覺得不清楚的時候我們應該都有義務去說明那畢竟我們中央的部會分成非常多因為這次跟災害有關的部會實在太多了那我們這一邊這次的通力合作的確也在這一個院長還有在紀政委的這個指揮之下運作是很順暢但是人民他不會去分這些部會所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3247.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
3271.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
一體式的這種說明農業部這個禮拜五說明我記得是嘛禮拜五所以就是說如果能夠更多的部會一次性的告訴大家我們就是要做什麼這個對人民接收資訊來講我認為是特別的重要當時陳金德政委在光復鄉成立的一站式的服務好像很快的效力現在這個協調會報也是由陳金德政委來主持我想他會用同樣的精神當然規模不會那麼大同樣的精神讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
3273.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
3278.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
能夠大家整體性的了解到我們對不同身份的人可以提供什麼樣的協助這個我們會做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
3279.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
3301.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
這點就再拜託了另外一個就是可能要問一下交通部這個問題其實不是太過於困難因為這個便橋現在是被沖目前來講是說大概10天10天之內能夠把它完成25號就可以完成中間的替代方案現在是如何就是到25號之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
3303.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
3325.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
報告員他其實只能用原來的繞的嗎有其他的替代道路啦台11線 台11丁 台11甲都可以走有其他替代道路 鐵路的部分一樣是保持暢通的所以鐵公路其實都還是有路可以走那當時就是說因為會有鋼變嘛對不對 然後之後會有永久性的嘛那因為這一件事情他會不會delay到後面的這個騎乘 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
3327.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
3355.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
他後面不會去delay到我們現在就是變道的部分再趕快讓他恢復鋼變橋的部分我們這次有看過我們打的那個鋼樁並沒有受到影響也沒有移動到所以不會影響到這個鋼變橋明年1月底要完成的這個時程後面的也不會有影響到因為很多民眾在問這個就又回到我剛剛講的如果在一次性的說明會的時候都能夠逐步的這些資訊都能夠說明的話對他們來講第一個就會比較安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
3355.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
3379.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
第二個假消息的散播他們也不容易相信因為他已經知道說這個中央都有一提示的說明過好的 謝謝委員接下來我想再問一下這一次名利村的這個事情就是說剛剛其實前面我看很多委員提到就是因為河床的高度所以這個細節我就不再問前面有委員問過因為現在是要做輸菌輸菌的時候也會有一些變道 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
3380.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
3395.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
這些變道也有可能會成為破口所以目前來講我覺得是不是請因為剛好經濟部走上來就是說關於水利署這方面可不可以再一次的來說明說現在我們這一邊的應對方案是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
3397.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
3422.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
就是我們現在先把那個堤防先做起來延伸先做然後短期間先做起來然後同時也輸進是持續在做所以這個同時在做的那當時就是說在判斷上面因為我看到因為我們一直把火力一直集中在下游這邊因為是當時發生關戶斷那個部分那這一次在發生的時候是有誤判還是說這其實是在預料範圍之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
3423.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
3447.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
八尾因為它那個堤防是不是沒有它是原來就沒有它是在已經靠近邊坡了那主要原因這次水很大下來那我們的確是集中在下雨那個部分然後在那個便橋後來那個泥沙太強了把那個便橋的全部都堵起來堵起來以後水它就往上蔓延所以蔓延上去的時候它就會從那一個沒有做那個流出來是這樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
3451.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
3479.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我覺得這個在判斷上面因為我們的確資源有限所以我們針對像這個光復箱這次發生的情形大家一直在想說要在預防它發生但的確你看會有這個類似回堵的這個狀況然後才會導致這一個這次名利村發生這樣的現象那我覺得不管如何我們針對這些的事情我們當時的判斷如果我們有少了什麼我們下一次就一定要多加注意然後還有跟民眾的說明其實也是一樣他們也要知道這個相關的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
3480.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
3489.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我最後只剩幾秒鐘所以後續有一些跟這個震災相關的我可能再跟衛福部溝通謝謝謝謝委員謝謝沈伯陽委員質詢 謝謝左院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請鄭天才委員質詢張雅玲委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
3519.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
3548.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
卓院長 這個請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢謝謝韓院長也請工程委員會主委麻煩請陳主委備詢還有農業部麻煩請農業部備詢政務員好上次特別我提到了花蓮光復災害主要的源頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
3549.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
3573.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
第一個就是菸攝乎他潰壩或者叫溢流第二個就是堤防河床這個部分的河床堤防都在加緊之中現在就是我們看這次的270億的特別預算菸攝乎整治 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
3576.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
3602.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
寫14億 是寫整字是不是是整字 我們來看一下事實上在8月13號立法院朝野協商的時候在韓院長主持的朝野協商的時候我們就提出了附帶決議要開挖馬太安院舍府的一紅道下酒要修築提防庫船工程8月13號 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
3604.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
3629.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
本席啊 8月22號我自己也開了 召開了協調會也是一樣 要開挖一紅道 修組提榜 故傳功當然當時我召開的會議 成績都很低了經濟部 水利署都只有請這個九合分署的來好 事實上106年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
3632.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
3659.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
國有林地菸社府應變標準作業程序106年就規定菸社府要開挖溢流道溢水的流道 106年就規定了我們看這次的特別條例11月11號總統公佈施行第四條的第一項的第一款 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
3660.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
3688.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
明確的規定馬太安西安攝府的整治解決潰壩因為這是源頭源頭不處理的話你現在把這些受災負的房屋都整修好了等一下這邊又怎麼辦呢所以源頭還是要處理我們看這個公共城委員會的預算整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
3692.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
3717.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
編列了一億三千多萬一億三千多萬我們看這個丹納斯的條例特別預算公共工程委員會編列一億按照這個比例按照這個比例丹納斯的是0.17%了公共工程委員會的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
3719.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
3743.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
馬太安的菸社福特別預算0.51% 高很多我們看特別講這次特別條例的第七條我希望工程委員會或是組織總署能夠一一 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
3746.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
3765.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
這個第7條啊不受預算法第62條及第63條規定之限制也就是說切實你用不了那麼多的話能夠留用到其他更需要的地方這個是我的建議好我們看農業部我們看農業部剛講14億那邊寫馬太安菸攝乎整治事實上呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
3777.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
3800.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
是監測 調查監測崩塌地 直升複翼設置監測設備 菸射伏土砂防制林道改善緊急搶修工程總共14億完全沒有去處理這個菸射伏的霸體 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
3802.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
3831.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
沒有106年中央自己規定的有淹涉浮的時候就要開挖一流道特別條例的也規定要整治要解決潰壩的問題這個是最根本的所以這樣的預算希望農業部公共工程委員會我也質詢過公共工程委員會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
3832.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
3850.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我也質詢過國防部部長我最關心這個部分這個是源頭好 我們接下來好了市政委員請農業部來說明他們怎麼編列的內容我都清楚了 等一下等一下會讓你說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
3854.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
3883.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這是農業部上市卓榮泰院長到馬太安溪的時候所做的報告就是要這個方案一方案二寫得很清楚我也質詢過主委陳主委陳主委的答覆從光復林道上汽需要兩百天要改三萬壁讓相關機器能夠上去但機器上汽不是要直接去挖那個壩體 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
3885.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
3913.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我聽了之後真的是霸體還是要挖好 這個農業部說明一下是 報告委員事實上剛才14.3億有關馬太安菸攝乎的這個整治工程其實就包括好幾個部分第一個就是黃砂工程那黃砂工程的話就是包括它兩岸兩岸 右岸 左岸這一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
3915.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
3943.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
要怎麼樣去做這個治理那第二個就是有關在上游的河道的清蘇那另外也涉及到壩體還有這個崩塌地的這個整治工程所以其實剛才的是4.3億委員所關心的都已經在裡面院長我諮詢過主委我也請林保署林務級以前叫林務級我也請他們來我也了解過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
3945.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
3973.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
事實上就是沒有去挖那個霸體按照目前的預算是這樣所以我也跟這個院長我也跟你在上次總質詢的時候也提到國外的案例可以參考美國在1959年多久年前他歷時一個月他從用機械開挖在霸頂開著易紅道 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
3977.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4005.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
在蘇聯蘇聯它是結合爆破跟機械的開挖人工一紅道在大陸它是用開挖流通道它是用相關的這些小型小規模定向爆破再以機械開著這些案例我們都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4006.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4025.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
更重要的就是說還是要上次我有跟主委講還是要召喚部會的會議還要請專家來一起開會甚至邀請國外的專家一起開會來去解決這個問題本席在8月22號 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4027.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4051.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
也召開協調會的時候就說要協調國防部出動軍用的直升機再小型的挖土機其實挖土機是可以分解的可以先分解然後再上去之後再組裝還是要去處理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4053.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4077.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
內政部的空勤總隊執行機都上汽過人都上汽過 都上汽過了當然現在之前可能有困難現在是不是還有那個困難我們看現在的菸社府的一個現況的資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4082.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4108.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
一流前9月23號之前是這個樣子浮面大這個是11月16號11月16號前幾天的這個現況如果從現況來看是不是有可能空軍的直升機或是內政部的直升機載運這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4111.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4137.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
挖土機能夠把人運過去機械運過去比你開挖那個林道我上次有講你開挖林道不得已的說開挖林道但是他是不是也會破壞山林我們也必須去思考會不會再增加其他更多的災害我們也必須去思考所以已經現階段了 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4139.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4166.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
院長你都知道我都不談責任了我上次也是這樣講我們怎麼樣去解決這個問題這個沒有解決你花了幾十億的錢幾百億的錢去處理這些所以這個部分都是一個需要審慎而且要趕快要趕快去召開特別特別的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4167.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4185.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
是跟委員報告在9月15號行政院的政務會議也正式討論馬太安溪淹涉湖當初霸頂降蛙爆破甚至這個洪溪的原理都談過當時認為說無論哪一個處理都不可能在10月底以前完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4186.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4205.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
有可能這個霸體10月底的時候他就會自然的溢出後來因為雨大所以要提前這是一個現狀那麼剛剛你說空群總隊有人下去你看他連站都站不住當時連站都站不住那現在整個地形地貌是否有所改變或許農業部再重新的去 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4206.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4229.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
如何觀測一次是工程上可行的我想工程會也好農業部也好一定會想盡辦法我只能建議了因為現在的現況馬太安溪驗社府的現況跟9月23號之前差很多了所以請專家去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4230.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4258.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
是不是更適合更適合去透過直升機把這些挖土機先解體然後再組裝上去之後再組裝然後當然上面也要做一些工療因為要駐住很多天所以這個部分這個院長我們請工程會農業部是不是技術可行是不是安全無虞這個要做一些考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4259.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4288.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我從小住在山上長大要到我們的農田秀姑蘭溪到了海岸沙邁這樣轉要過山次秀姑蘭溪還要走這個很多的山坡地所以這個部分很重要所以這個部分我只是只能建議了委員我是不是跟你簡單回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4289.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4306.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那鴛舌湖的水量很大那個量就是壓力所以你任何有一個小孔或疏孔它可能導致整個就是潰掉下來如果說整個馬太安溪現在沒有堆置那麼高它可以容納這些水旁邊不會自災 那沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4308.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4332.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
問題是現在馬太安溪就是體温高比住的地方都還高任何一點點水量他都可以溢流過去導致災害所以呢這個整治應該由這個底下上去這底下包括什麼包括花蓮溪的出海口的地方如果足那個主委時間的關係我還是建議當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4335.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4363.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這麼大的水量的時候確實不適合爆破現在我認為我不是專家但是我從小聽我們的長輩他們去挖我們的鄉親去挖北迴鐵路的隧道16個隧道都是農民跟原住民去挖的都是人工他們都是用小爆破 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4365.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
4381.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
一個隧道要爆破數十次小爆破小爆破小爆破所以這個部分還是要找爆破專家也都必須要一起去討論去解決這個問題我做這樣的一個建議時間的關係相關的這些預算我們看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
4389.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
4413.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
還是有不足的地方像條例裡面有寫文化資產文化產業的振興我這樣看這個特別預算裡面都沒有看到像我們地方政府的錢只有29.44%我希望能夠一倍金相關的經費能夠先挹注像那個光復鄉公所他也是受災 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
4415.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
4441.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
光復鄉公所也是受災他相關的設些我看不到這些要協助他們的而且常常要撤離所以這個部分要請這個主計總署能夠協助能夠再從預備金裡面也請院長能夠支持可以嗎有需要我們當然從預備金優先來試用真的有需要那其他的部分在編列過程當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
4447.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
4468.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
好 謝謝鄭天才委員質詢 謝謝左院長 相關部會所長費詢 謝謝接下來我們今天上午特別預算專案報告口頭質詢最後一位委員我們請張雅玲委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
4480.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
4483.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
謝謝主席 我們邀請行政院長麻煩再請總院長備詢張委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
4494.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
4513.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
院長好我想首先我還是想要請教一個裁劃法的問題就是因為這個立法院115年的預算到現在已經11月18號我們還是無法在預算會期開始來進行相關的審查程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
4514.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
4536.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
那在野黨藍白認為說已經啟動了財化法修法那行政院就應該要針對我們這115年的預算來進行重新編列但我想院長已經回覆非常多次也清楚了說明就是說這對國家的財政會有相當大的影響但是他們始終無法理解那我就想要請教一下院長就是說我們目前已經給了地方4165億 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
4539.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
4565.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
為了這件事情中央都還要調整我們的預算結構明年的總預算都還要舉在2992億那我就想請問因為今天是馬太安溪的一些相關的這個特別預算的一個報告如果按照這個藍白的修法明年如果我們又有這麼多因為台灣就是一個多災多難的島嶼那我們如果遇到這種天災我們明年還有辦法因應嗎我們還有空間嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
4566.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
4584.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
是謝謝委員雖然編特別預算會排除預算法種種內容的適用跟公債法也可以排除但是總之總之他是擴大了國家的財政的舉債這個是事實無論我們排除任何的法律他就是擴大那今年我們已經剛剛委員所說2992億如果再加上 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
4589.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
4605.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
現在要我們恢復的計畫性補助2600多億表示我們要增加5600億的舉債已經違反明年度要編財發法的公債法的規定說我們是編不出來的況且拿掉4165億的統籌分稅款再把 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
4609.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
4630.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
計劃型補助再全數的補助給地方再把一般型補助又不考慮到中央地方的這個市權的劃分全部又再給地方中央可做的事情就非常非常的有限明年再有任何的天災中央要有什麼能力去幫助地方像這次豬瘟也是台風也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
4631.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
4649.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
菸攝乎也是 再者我們還有像今年特別的是還有國際的這種談判明年如果任何的狀況來我們將沒有能力所以一直削弱中央的國庫一直把政府要把它攤換為主在這裡到底用意何在我想國人都應該想想清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
4650.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
4678.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
對我想就是說因為我們之所以大家也可以看到我們這次在煙澀湖齁光這個疏散地方政府的疏散都出現了問題那整個非洲豬瘟在地方政府的一個管控之下也都出現了非常大的問題所以呢如果我們再持續去削弱我們中央政府的一個應變能力的話那其實對於百姓都不是一件好事我想我這樣子的結論院長應該是認同的對不對是剛剛主席總署主席長又提出了馬太安西我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
4679.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
4691.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
所已經協助的金額已經有27億租溫也有36億那這個都是我們應急擠出來的那明年如果連這個能力都沒有那真的是叫天天不應呼叫地地不靈 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
4692.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
4719.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
對 那我也希望請全國民眾一起來思考如果未來如果再發生任何的災害我們讓中央無法有任何的應變能力的話全部回到地方的話那我覺得對全國人民來說都是一個很可怕的一件事情因為到現在我知道行政院已經跟我們很多的不管是各部會也好我們都已經跟地方的局處展開了非常非常密集的溝通跟討論都有討論有關於事權的部分要如何的去切割可是事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
4719.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
4746.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
我也遇到了很多的局處地方的局處來告訴我他們特別擔心這些錢都到了地方沒有錯但是會不會到教育會不會到各個相對應的局處大家都沒有把握我也認為這應該是藍白必須說清楚的對不對不然這些錢到底要用在哪裡到底會用在孩子身上會不會用到他們所謂的防災身上我們都一無所知 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
4746.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
4769.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
所以明年我們即使在我們院版的裁判法的草案我們補助給地方的一般性的補助當中對於教育就是社福對於基本設施我們會要求指定做到一樣的各縣市必須要有非常均衡的發展的前提底下該有的各縣市該有的就必須要做到我們也會在統籌分配稅管裡面要求這幾個重要的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
4769.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
4794.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
就是地方拿了這些錢至少每個縣市都有的都必須要做出來如果你有好的計畫我們也可以來補助甚至我們用一個公司來設算當過去的補助我們用設算的公司來做也都可以我們設置了有三層的補助的整個層次這個部分我們會在禮拜四的院會當中討論然後定案院版的中央政府的財政收支劃分法希望大院能夠支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
4795.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
4815.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
好 我希望這樣子的一個修法才能夠去確保我們從中央拿走的預算可以回到相對應的部會特別是我特別關注的一個教育的預算不會讓最後明明都生長在台灣的孩子可是卻因為生長在不同的縣市而有了不同不平等的一個對待那接下來我也想要請教就是有關於中紀村的相關的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
4817.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
4838.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
就是說今天災民第一個時間的問題就是要面對他們到底要住在哪裡雖然說國土署已經公告了有些住宅已經是無法居住了可是我們好像還沒有看到後續中紀村的一個具體的規劃內容包含說中紀村到底有沒有安全有沒有文化空間是不是會住很久 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
4839.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
4861.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我想這都必須要讓村民來清楚的了解那目前國土署在特別預算裡面編列了3億200萬來作為中期安置中繼屋的一個建設可是預算只有編到116年之後就沒有再編列了所以我想請問一下我們所謂的中期安置到底是多久是一年兩年還是甚至到五年呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
4862.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
4886.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
中基屋剛剛陳靜德主委講了很多的回應那其他部分還有跟內政部相關的請劉部長來謝謝張委員的關心有關中基屋其實它就是一個短期的安置的措施那第一個我們會先針對那個重災戶的部分評估他現住的房子如果是不安全的狀況之下尤其是重災區的這幾戶我們當然會短期把它安置以一年到兩年為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
4887.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
4913.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
所以現在已經有41戶我們希望在年底的時候就可以提出來讓重災戶可以先入住所以中紀屋的概念是這樣子當然很多的居民跟鄉民他們有提到希望能夠離災不離鄉如果是離災不離鄉的話包括很多原住民部落的朋友我們會在定期跟他們溝通有共識之後我們再來看未來他們的安居住宅要怎麼處理會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
4914.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
4938.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
我也是跟對這個問題上面來做一些請教就是說因為我們之前也有看過像是小林村遷村到山林大岸園區之後這個中繼屋它自己後來就變成了宅區所以我也想要請教我們現在的中繼村這個位置有沒有做過完整的地質調查包含像是淹水的一個模式的模擬來確保他們是從危險的區域移植到安全的區域 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
4939.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
4953.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
是 先跟委員報告剛所提到41戶的部分目前是在台塘的園區裡面裡面大概已經建置完成而且沒有安全上面的疑慮大部分的災民 申請的災民也都知道了沒有這方面的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
4954.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
4980.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
未來就是要離災不離鄉的狀況之下我們會再根據尤其這兩次還有其他的堰塞湖的發生會根據他們的需求來做轉換如果需要變更包括都市計畫或是簡單的鄉規計畫的話我們會來協助其實這方面的進度很多災民都知道因為我們第一階段已經是針對這個淹水過後的這些房子安不安全已經告訴他們所以他們大概也知道未來的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
4981.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
4997.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
好 那我接下來想要請教關於他們實質影響生活的部分就是說對於許多的家庭來說孩子能不能不用轉校其實是一個非常直接也非常現實的需求那包含中繼村離原本的學校多遠要花多少時間通勤是不是會有校車 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
4998.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5023.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
再來就是醫療的問題有許多都是高齡者他們在目前的中繼村的規劃中有沒有所謂的衛生所分店 衛生室或者是有定期許診的安排還是他們未來還是必須要長途奔波來看診第三個就是生活空間因為其實這邊是原住民部落他們生活中需要有這個寄宜空間家族聚落空間搬入中繼村之後這些空間是否 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5024.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5033.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
會被保留還是會被消失我想請教就是針對我們剛剛講的這些生活上面息息相關的內容目前我們有沒有這些相關的規劃呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5035.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5062.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
報告委員我們是內政部負責的部分是這樣子中基一屋它如果蓋成之後其實就我了解因為他們並沒有離鄉所以小孩子的就學其實沒有太大的問題裡面就幾所學校大概也都知道但是你有提到如果小孩子需要有交通接送等等這些我們來評估需求我們會再跟鄉公所來決定是不是會有類似這樣子的一個shuttle bus這樣的服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5062.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5083.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
其他包括在衛生所的部分到目前為止我所知道他們覺得說目前在衛生方面的服務或是公共衛生的部分大概都有按照計劃進行導致我們內政部有一個部分就是說它原來的家屋如果它的污水下水道受到影響的話家屋後面的污水下水道需要重新評估我們也會協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5086.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5101.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
謝謝那再接下來就請教一下就是說因為剛剛有特別提到就是說其實我們還是需要跟我們的部落做非常非常充分的討論嘛因為大家的意見可能還是會有所落差那我想根據原住民基本法原住民基本法部落對於重大工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5102.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5117.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
建設有參與決策的權利也只有部落參與進來中紀村才能夠符合真正的離災不離村所以呢我想這件事情我們是不是會持續的來跟他們啟動相關的一個諮詢會議呢這是一個持續的動作嗎還是只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5118.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5138.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
前面的幾次我也先來回應一下我想我們現在陳金德政委他要主持的是由行政院交辦的各項功能分組我們也知道根據原基法的精神他們在部落裡面未來要做重建的話一定要經過部落上面相關的共識這些我們都會充分尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5139.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5163.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
所以我們這個會議會一直持續定期的去開嗎因為過去的經驗是說可能居民一開始的想法是這樣中間又會有不同的想法所以他還是要持續的去做溝通跟討論確保我們的意見有收集到最及時所以我想要了解就是說我們這樣子的意見收集的模式它是一個持續固定的會議還是只有前面剛開始的這段時間有而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5163.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5192.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我們這個在花蓮現在設計的這個設置的前進的這個協調匯報協調匯報裡面這個原民會也在裡面原民會不會把這個部落族人的基本的權利給他忘了所以我們一定會在這樣的一個法律的精神底下會持續的跟原住民的族人一樣像現在中紀屋到底要不要蓋蓋在哪裡什麼時候也都是跟族人充分的討論那這個工作會持續進行下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5193.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5218.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我也希望這個管道要持續的保持暢通接下來就第二個部分我想要聚焦在重建工程的部分目前其實我們重建的工程包含了治山治水家園及公共設施復原產業復甦及社會重建環境富裕還有防災體系我們也可以非常清楚的看到就是說重建不是只是輕於不塗蓋房子而是做一個全面調查全面調整的一個系統工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5219.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5234.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
針對於映色湖溢流之後最大的直接影響就是大量的土石它沿著馬太安溪宣洩而下現在土砂的堆積量非常高包括了河道還有堤防邊坡還有農田與道路兩邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5235.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5258.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
側都出現了後塵的一個淤積衛星空拍也顯示了局部的河道甚至被推高還有像是河道的行水空間是否恢復也是非常重要的因為如果行水空間不足到下一場梅雨下一場颱風河道可能就會再度溢流所以我想要了解就是說我們這次在水利署其實水利署 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5260.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5284.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
其實確實編列了河道疏峻的預算這個是非常重要的但是我們是否可以公布未來三個月六個月的一個清瘀季度呢或者是說我們大概分幾個階段然後我們清多少的量那何時可以完成初步那下一個好雨前是否能夠達標我們是不是可以公布像這樣子的一個內容然後也可以簡單說明一下現在的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5284.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5312.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
可以 我們現在本來就有這樣的規劃本來原來在年底之前要清出100萬方但是現在因為後來又有颱風的關係所以我們現在已經清出200多萬方了所以時程會加快到明年汛期之前就是明年4月之前我們會加清約到600萬方到明年底之前希望清出1000萬方出來我想階段性的我們會對外說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5314.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5333.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
是不是可以公布在我們相關的網站上面或什麼資訊讓我們的居民可以知道相關的進度還是一樣我想這些資料清楚了除了居民知道還有地方政府也必須要知道就是可以知道說什麼時候可以解除風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5334.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5359.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
避免突如其來的警報在未來發生同時這一次受災的光復地區還有好幾座跨溪的橋樑橋墩周面的土石都被沖刷堆積物過高變成橋樑的通紅斷面變小之類等等的問題未來都有可能產生新的風險像是在2024年南投廬山暴雨之後我們就曾經看到河床升高超過1公尺導致舊橋在下一次暴水中 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5360.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5381.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
所以馬太安溪的河床到底上升多少是否有上升我想這都需要工程的評量所以是否可以指示我們的水利署跟公路局針對我們相關橋樑再做一次完整的安全檢測是否需要補強然後是否需要做第二階段的橋樑補強工程是否可以報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5383.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5404.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
根據水利法的確是如果橋跟那個最高水位如果過境的話是需要做改建的啦所以相關的問題我們都會在這個特別預算或原來好 謝謝好 謝謝張雅玲委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5409.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
5433.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我們登記第十一位委員羅志強委員之質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報我們特別預算案排定質詢的委員均已經質詢完畢謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長列席答詢也謝謝鄭天才委員王育民委員陪同我們一起參與今天特別預算的報告我們現在做以下決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
5435.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
5442.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
一 中央政府花斂馬太安菸塞湖災後重建特別條例特別預算案交財政委員會會同有關委員審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
5444.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
5466.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
将各委员发言记录及书面质询函送行政院请就未答复部分予以书面答复三 已提出之书面质询尚未登载公报者一律补刊报言会 我们上午会议进行到此为止下午两点三十分我们继续进行交通组织质询现在休息 谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
13211.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
13226.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
總院長各位列席閣員午安我們今天現在繼續進行對行政院院長施政報告諮詢今天進行交通組織諮詢首先我們請陳俊宇委員諮詢陳廷飛委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
13248.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
13273.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
好 謝謝我們韓院長我們有請我們卓永泰卓院長歡迎卓院長備詢院長午安陳委員好謝謝院長這個鳳凰颱風重創宜蘭造成我們這個西南包括羅東東山五結這個許多處的淹水 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
13277.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
13299.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
甚至在蘇澳鎮除了淹水達到一層樓高的案例以外另外也有土石流的災情傳出也特別感謝我們卓院長在第一時間能夠會同我們陳金德政委還有紀念城政委還有我們經濟部農業部相關部會的這些首長親臨災區來視察也在 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
13304.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
13329.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
現場對於相關的災情提出解決的方法還有未來的改善的計畫更感謝我們國軍連續幾天投入數千名的官兵在現場來協助相關的救災得以讓蘇澳鎮相關的受災的情況迅速的來恢復基本的市容及環境我想蘇澳市區這個淹水 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
13331.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
13336.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
一層樓高的部分後來我們非常遺憾的在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
13339.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
13361.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
幾天發現到有一名78歲的婦人溺斃那依法規的話我們行政院會核發這個慰問金20萬還有一個震災基金會補助40萬總共60萬那我想請問院長我們這個部分能不能比照馬太安溪水災罹難者的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
13362.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
13379.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
來提高相關的這個慰助金額是 感謝陳委員也為宜蘭包括蘇澳還有武傑東山各地在這次水災造成大家生活上的不便我們表達最高的慰問讓我願意全力的來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
13380.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
13402.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
剛剛陳委員所提到的這位不幸往生的老人家當然我們比照過去已有的案例會把他的死亡的撫恤會提高到100萬元這個是比照過去我們原來的20萬再加上40萬之外行政會會另外再籌措40萬元來給予這個老人家的家屬最大的安慰好 謝謝院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
13404.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
13427.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
我們現在這個經濟部對於這個淹水補助的標準他淹水的部分超過50公分以上才會有補助那低於50公分的部分就沒有補助了我們這個部分行政院有沒有可能檢討考慮對於這個低於50公分的部分我們也可以適度的來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
13428.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
13451.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
適度的這個金額補助謝謝委員提到這樣一個大家長期以來都希望我們就淹水的補助標準能夠再檢討事實上我們在去年的颱風來的時候就地方的淹水50公分以上的雖然我們照原現在辦法是補助5000元但是已經加碼到2萬了已經加到2萬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
13453.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
13479.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
這一次我們看到宜蘭尤其是蘇澳地區當天去的時候看到有淹水高達兩米多的一米多的也相當的多我們衡量大家在街上看到從家庭裡面送出來的各項的家具電器用品很多的生財器具我們認為應該就這次淹水比較嚴重的部分再進行檢討所以我們日前有跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
13480.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
13507.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
各部會也跟曾經的主委工程會相當相關的這個各部會有檢討過那衡量現在各部會還有在年底之前我們能不能再挪出一些的經費來那雖然這次的蘇澳的這次的風災鳳凰颱風我沒有辦法像雲嘉南或是花蓮的這個艷澀湖我們進行大規模的這個善款的捐贈但是我們願意在另外的籌措各種的辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
13508.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
13532.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
所以我們認為50公分以上的除了現在加碼2萬塊以上那我們認為應該可以救他的實際上可以證明有財產損失的這些住家可以再給予3萬塊的補助再給予3萬塊的補助就補助到5萬塊另外就是淹水特別高的比方說超過了1公尺以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
13533.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
13543.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那我們除了兩萬塊原來的標準之外我們可以再給八萬塊的加碼再加八萬塊一公尺以上但是要證明有財產損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
13544.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
13573.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
要財產損失要提出證明 這個證明需要地方還有村里長一起來協助有財產損失可以加碼到10萬塊那50公分以上可以加碼到5萬塊那這樣會認為說50公分以下的原來是都沒有的除非地方政府還左右補助都沒有的我們認為50公分以下的我們也應該給予考量所以針對50公分以下的我們也可以發一個標準但是你也不可能說因為2公分就 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
13574.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
13600.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
給予補助所以如果達到30公分以上在這一次我們是特別特例30公分以上50公分未滿的我們可以給予1萬塊的這個加碼所以說30公分到50公分是1萬塊50公分以上是2萬塊如果證實有財產損失可以加3萬1公尺以上的也是2萬塊但是證實有財產損失的可以加到8萬塊好 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
13602.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
13621.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
跟院長報告因為昨天我又到相關的災戶去看了一下發現到真的陳儒剛剛院長您所說的淹到一層樓高的這幾天都在拆裝潢連裝潢都拆掉因為他整間房子都泡在水裡面了 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
13623.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
13644.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
不是只有家具跟家電要丟掉連裝潢都要拆掉所以我真的希望說我們行政院對於相關的慰問金能夠真的從優從速從簡從寬來認定並且讓我們這些災民能夠真正的感受到我們政府的關懷因為這三次的風災雲嘉南是屋頂吹走很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
13646.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
13671.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那煙色湖花蓮是因為土石流大量進到家裡那這個地方是淹水特別高因為它有不同的情境我們在現有的辦法裡面我們衡量各種不同的損失以及財力現在整個的整個財政我們做這樣的增加補助的一個辦法希望能夠讓災民得到一些心靈上的安慰也趁早能夠進入到一個正常的生活回歸正常的生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
13671.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
13696.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
好 這部分再請我們院長能夠交辦我們相關的單位能夠盡快來處理我們當然要關心 接續關心的是我們防洪韌性的強化還有我們相關水利工程應該要加速推動的部分宜蘭縣在近幾年所提報的相關重大的治水計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
13698.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
13702.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
包括我們近期我們行政院所核定的這個蘇澳溪分紅工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
13705.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
13724.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
75.68億還有進行中的五節防潮閘門的改善工程還有目前正在等待中的圓山鄉七賢村的西周排水還有新馬抽水站以及壯圍壯東的相關排水設施的改善這些工程都急需我們行政院能夠極力的來協助幫忙當然剛剛講的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
13730.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
13754.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
有好幾項我們院長都已經親自到現場去視察並且也核定相關的金額我希望說我們中央能夠對於這些宜蘭縣大家所關心的重大治水計畫能夠加速相關的期程讓整個工程的推進可以在有效的期限內來完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
13756.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
13781.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
並且在院長那一天我們在蘇澳溪分洪工程的那個現場也提到我們行政院將納入一個一千億的因應氣候變遷縣市管河川及排水整體改善的一個計畫我也希望說這一筆經費這算公是我們全台灣人大家願望的一個救命錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
13783.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
13802.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我希望說我們在立法院裡面不分朝野不分你我所有的委員都可以來支持這一筆預算讓我們行政院可以儘早將這一筆預算合撥到各縣市急需要的用途讓所有淹水或是易淹水或是大家所擔心的相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
13804.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
13822.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
這些工程可以儘早來推進院長這部分您是委員所提到的蘇澳的分紅計畫以及五節的閘門我們都已經合訂而且在進行當中了剛剛提到那幾項若干有應該是屬於縣市館縣市館河川的部分也要縣市政府能夠提出這樣的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
13823.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
13852.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那中央為了讓過去幾年多少年來所做的這個治水的工程能夠透去能夠把它完成起來所以明年的中央政府總預算編了4年1000億的剛剛你說到的縣市廣泉栓的改善工程計畫那希望這個能夠真正協助到地方也是中央來補助地方來做地方要提出需求跟工程的計畫那我們才能夠用這個經費來做但現在目前這個預算是在明年的中央政府總預算裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
13852.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
13869.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
也請委員能夠支持一旦預算獲得通過我們將全力緊速的來跟地方達成共同的意見趕快來執行好 謝謝院長那也謝謝政委一直持續關心我們宜蘭縣因為極端氣候的這個影響我相信這個治水 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
13870.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
13897.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
絕對是我們全國各地各縣市大家所關心的也唯有把相關水患解決之後才能夠提供給民眾一個更加安全的居住環境所以在此懇切的拜託我們院長跟相關部會一定要對這個問題的重視另外我想就交通的問題來跟我們院長請教我們宜蘭雙鐵目前同步推進的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
13899.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
13905.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
在這個鐵路高架的部分我們目前已經辦理綜合規劃修正及呈報行政院的審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
13908.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
13930.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
還有高鐵延伸宜蘭的部分也爭取在114年的第四季能夠呈報行政院來完成審議看起來這兩項重大的鐵道工程目前就是等待我們行政院最後的一個核定再次我是想說是不是可以請教院長我們對於這個核定的計畫有沒有一個期程 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
13931.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
13956.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
高鐵延伸是眾所周目的 大家關心的那在今年的8月 它已經通過了環評我們現在希望加速在今年的年底能夠完成綜合中規的一個規劃計畫那時候就可以依照 按照進度來做進行這是屬於高鐵的部分另外我們還有公路還有鐵路鐵路的部分請部長再做說明跟委員報告 鐵路的部分交通部已經完成審議了 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
13957.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
13981.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
目前會送到行政院區在這幾天我們已經送過去了我們也都在加速進行當中最後可能地方上面對於一些經費上有一些想法這個部分我們也都還在協調當中所以這個都會加速剛剛院長所說明的高鐵的部分我們交通部今年年底之前會完成整個審議再送到行政院跟委員報告好 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
13982.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
14002.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
另外在公路系統的部分我想往南的部分我們還是期待台62線的規劃可以盡快來完成以目前來看並沒有很明顯的一個推進的進度台62線的部分往北的部分我們除了在 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
14005.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
14033.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
國道5號我們要偵測一個東山交流道以外那我們也期待說這個未來的這個國道5號可以跟我們的蘇花改來做銜接那相關的工程我們是不是期程也可以合併加速來進行國道5號流量非常的大但是有一個替代的道路台62線台62線今年的上半年確實因為他是從瑞濱延伸到宜蘭的頭城那這個工程因為經費也相當多要1800多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
14035.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
14052.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那今年的上半年確實送到行政院來我們那個時候因為這個跟地方在財政收入方法上面大家還在做一些延伸跟討論那我們認為要不就是地方要多增加一些經費的負擔要不這個工程的期限要延長拉長 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
14053.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
14072.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
但是現在我們認為行政院既然已經訂定了一個新的院版行政院版的財政收入發放法我們認為對地方的補助可以依照這個方向來回復或者加強中央地方的夥伴關係所以這個台62縣的可行性評估我們已經核定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
14072.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
14090.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
已經核定了希望如果大院能夠支持行政院院版的財政收支劃分法我們就可以依照內容來就雙方在分擔上面的額度跟責任以及工程的期程來做更快速的進展好那這部分也是拜託我們院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
14091.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
14112.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
另外這個南陽大橋跟葛馬蘭大橋目前南陽大橋的部分他目標是2026年3月要發包預計在2030年要完工葛馬蘭大橋是預計2026年的6月要完成基礎設定在2029年要完成相關的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
14113.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
14140.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
全線通車我想這兩座大橋也是連結西南西北的一個重要道路我想這個工程應該是會在騎乘內來完成目前就是照騎乘在走所以目前沒有看到會延宕的狀況所以應該是可以照騎乘完成我想交通建設的部分也是要拜託我們院長及交通部相關部會的我們各位局長能夠提供我們宜蘭縣 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
14142.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
14168.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
一樣是從優從速從簡能夠有一個比較優良的一個相關的工程品質並且能夠迅速的來完成提供給民眾一個更加安全的通行路好 謝謝委員的關心我們快速的把這個補助的相關方案能夠訂定下來之後快速的來執行好 謝謝院長 謝謝委員 謝謝部長謝謝陳俊宇委員執行謝謝委員長 交通部陳部長備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
14170.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
14192.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
接下來我們請陳廷飛委員請質詢魯明哲委員請準備謝謝院長我們請卓院長還有交通部長麻煩再請陳院長卓院長交通部陳部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
14202.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
14225.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
陳委員好院長好 部長好院長其實身為一個女性我相信不論是不是發生在我們的身上我們看的都很難過利用AI製作身為影片產生數位性暴力的問題到底要怎麼解決我們所有的政治人物一個一個葬的一個受害那我們該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
14228.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
14248.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
在網路世界現在這麼發達的狀況底下也可以說是氾濫的這個情況底下各個年齡層都會受到很多不同的傷害那剛剛你說到的女性同胞甚至是一般的人都可能遭到這個性暴力的傷害連政治人物都這麼做了更何況是其他所以我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
14251.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
14266.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
要從源頭開始還是就平台的管理但是我們認為應該做更多的預防措施包括我們相關部會教育部對於教育的過程還有衛福部對於整個社區的宣傳過程宣導的過程都應該從 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
14268.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
14292.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
其實我相信宣傳很重要沒錯可是源頭的平台沒有管理他還是沒有辦法處理對 我說一開始是源頭的平台的管理對 源頭的平台怎麼做這才是最重要的現在全世界都一樣就是對這個社群網站的平台各國都還在摸索一個法治化的一個完整性那我們也認為台灣應該趕快加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
14295.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
14319.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
這個速發部長期以來尤其是在打詐司法之後跟各個平台有更進一步的連結那這個怎麼辦呢速發部這個怎麼辦呢我們過去沒有速發部說沒有專責單位現在有速發部了之後那要怎麼辦這個議題基本上有兩個部分一個是AI夾影像的問題另外一個是色情影像的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
14321.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
14334.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
現在是這兩個已經加起來了沒錯但是我們處理如果說他在有兒少保護上違反了任何法律的話只要衛福部這邊確認通知我們速發部我們速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
14334.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
14358.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
像在Facebook上 我們就要求Facebook上馬上要下架還是被動 還是比較被動你們還是比較被動 就是要舉報 相關單位舉報第一個就是法律有幾個層面 第一個是法律層面第二個是所有這些社群平台 包含Facebook等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
14359.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
14386.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
他们都有所谓的社群守则他们有这个社群守则他们会用AI或者人工的方式他发现有任何这种违法违反他们社群守则的影像他们就会自动下架如果他们做得不好的话我们速发部位去跟他要求那就只是下架你才是透过Facebook它的一个观控的机制对不对它自动下架可是伤害造成请问这个不是我们所看到的这些 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
14388.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
14395.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
政治人物不是都已經被上架了嗎上架的時候再下架你說傷害都造成了有什麼用 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
14397.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
14422.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
是然後這個時候我們就要牽涉到另外一件事情就是AI假影像的問題那AI假影像的問題我們分成幾個層面來處理第一個就是說像是OpenAI或者是Google這些Meta這些公司大公司他產生的AI影像上面都應該會有浮水印就清楚的註明說這是假影像這是第一個層面那第二個層面是還是回到就是Facebook等這些平台他都有他的社群守則 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
14423.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
14447.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
社群守則裡面都講說如果是AI的形成影像部長因為我時間有限了但是我剛聽你這麼說院長我要做一個請求因為我是女性政治人物我也是女性的代表我都覺得我們看到這些影片我們自己心都很痛而且你說的上了之後再下傷害已經造成了 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
14447.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
14475.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
假影像 偽影像我們無法可管他們只會變本加厲所以拜託院長是不是可以責成我們相關單位這個已經離譜了已經離譜了所以我們拜託我們是不是可以用專案看怎麼樣去處理這些所謂已經有數位性暴力的這些問題不是假影像而是性暴力喔所以院長可以拜託嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
14477.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
14501.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
包括衛福部也有成立一個性影像的處理中心等等但是照委員所說的這個都是事後啦那我們事前有沒有辦法能力我覺得現在事前我們要去全面的嚇惡主目前來看這個能力是還不夠 光全世界都一樣但是我們願意從法制面來加強一旦發現馬上處理 處理之後不僅下架法律責任要出現我們才能夠有 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
14501.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
14522.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
直接間接的就是要有重罰嘛要有重罰又有法的管制嘛當然啊你如果沒有他個人因為害怕不去做這件事情說真的有時候他用偷偷摸摸的方式你也沒辦法可是當你沒有重罰你沒有一個宣示性 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
14523.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
14545.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
這些人不會怕跟委員補充報告剛陳律師院長所說的大概也是三綠共管這個原則自律部分我們NC這邊有透過安運去跟平台做一些自律加強我想問的是說這些部分怎麼樣有提出一套的辦法讓大家有信心一個月可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
14547.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
14563.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我知道啊 你不要再說現在已經有了我知道現在有 可是我告訴你人家是用各種的方式在侵入表示你不斷在增加 人家的技術也不斷在增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
14563.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
14587.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以我們必須面對的是事實我們的政府控管單位有不足的地方我們要怎麼樣什麼時候能夠把它補足讓人民有信心我們期待的是這個樣子好 院長一個月把這樣的一個所謂的數位性暴力能夠理出一套的方式甚至是重罰好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
14588.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
14610.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我們就像現在面對打炸一樣我們釐出一個機制出來把他的流程等等刷出來現在我們還有一個台灣的網路資訊中心NIC他可以把他馬上對這些網站限制他的接取降低他的流量等等所以我們應該把我們的辦法一點一點能夠做的控管就是請速發部通常會跟內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
14611.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
14632.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
能不能同時把這個速度往前推把速度往前加快之外把我們的階段往前推讓它避免它發生錯誤之後其實人民要的是一個信心跟信任感謝謝那另外一個部分是院長其實我也跟你討論過說在我們當時候丹納斯颱風還有我們的豪大雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
14633.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
14660.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
整個的狀態728 823說真的泡水車也很嚴重可是我覺得我們好像有一點落差你知道嗎在這一次我們看到花蓮的這一次特別條例他是有針對泡水車對不對我們丹納斯是沒有的我們丹納斯是沒有的這個泡水車跟被土石流整個淹沒的這個車輛受損的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
14663.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
14689.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
當然都很嚴重只是泡水車的嚴重那台車就不能用了可是你知道嗎院長大家會比較其實這個是民眾跟我澄清的如果沒有他們的澄清我也不知道說原來在我們花蓮這一次土石流的一個特別條例我們市交通部有編列預算可以來做補助對車輛跟機車都有車輛的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
14693.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
14718.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
所以大家會比較其實土石流很嚴重真的我相信在這一次花蓮縣大家看到了所以我們有這個產值超人大家全力去支援那可是台南說真的從丹納斯到所有的一個水災 豪雨這一次所影響的也很嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
14719.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
14722.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那車我告訴你 他們也是不能開的所以我們是不是應該思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
14729.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
14754.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
應該有什麼樣的協助因為現在的泡水車是由我們地方政府有補助而已我知道從過去都沒有土石流的傷害這些車輛是直接就報廢掉了連修都沒有辦法修我們一般對淹水的是可以修只是可能它有其他的問題所以我們沒有要求說補助的比例那麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
14755.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
14771.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那只是一個感覺啦其實院長是一個感覺因為我說真的我們本來不知道說在這個特別條例當中我們土石流的車子有補助這也是民眾提供的所以思考一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
14773.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
14800.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
思考一下是不是這個部分因為我不是要求像土石流這樣補助那麼多我知道委員的關心我完全了解不是不是也非常感謝只是說我也知道土石流的車子是完全都不能動不能開不能修但是泡水車如果你的底盤沒有淹過那起碼它還可以有修復的機會但是如果底盤淹過了那所有的底盤浸過水也很難修 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
14802.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
14827.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我了解所以我認為這個部分我們是不是可以思考一下好不好因為這個到底是程度不同特殊性但是就民眾擁有者他的損害來看他是一樣的這一次在丹拉斯颱風的時候我們並沒有納入因為他沒有爆出來那麼多的量直接報廢是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
14828.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
14842.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
因為當時我們有建議過那行政院也是這樣給我們回覆我們也接受啦因為過去確實特別條例對於泡水車中央並沒有補助那因為這一次花蓮土石流的這個特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
14843.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
14860.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
有不一樣那我們也知道我再次強調我們清楚土石流的整個報廢的車輛跟泡水的狀況其實不太一樣所以我們並不說你要像這個土石流的車補助那麼多但是人民的感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
14862.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
14885.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
因為那個車子還是很難修了所以這個拜託院長還有部長這邊是不是思考一下好的 我們會來想想看有沒有好的方法謝謝對 人民的想法第二個部分就是我們台鐵公司研議是不是應該維持愛心孩童票 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
14886.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
14900.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
是不是應該他還是維持目前我們大部分的愛心票都有在只不過有一些方案是大家可能會想要試用兩種那我們會擇一來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
14901.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
14930.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
沒有 因為現在其實我們的愛心孩童票其實就是從87年6月16號就開始了然後一直到114年6月我們的愛心孩童票就把它喊卡了其實就像部長所說的已經禁用使用多年的一個大家的一個習慣為什麼我們要特別去做這個改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
14932.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
14961.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
孩童愛心孩童票愛心票跟殘障的票現在折一因為可能是愛心又是小兒童就是有孩童他身上有一些不同的狀況必須要家長協助他這個折會比原本的那個折更多沒錯但是我的意思是說為什麼我們每次都是做的比以前好的時候我們就要去改變大家的這個印象 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
14962.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
14980.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
你懂我意思嗎明明就像部長所說的我以前可能這個是這麼樣的處理可是我現在我雖然把它取消了可是我則數可能會比較多可是人民那種感覺怎麼會從87年6月16號然後一直到114年6月 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
14986.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
15015.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
其實我講的都是民眾的反應一個兒童他可能需要大人陪伴所以能夠降低他的負擔對家長來看也是一個必須的我請交通部 台鐵來做考量因為小朋友他身上有狀況他一定要家人陪伴所以這個部分就是說剛剛部長說的我們現在提出的應該會比以前的則數更多可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
15015.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
15026.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那我為什麼要好就要更好對於民眾的福利我們不會嫌多因為我們要幫忙的是這些弱勢的朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
15026.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
15051.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我們要幫忙他所以你再把這個拿掉說真的這也是民眾陳情的他會覺得怎麼會又把過去87年就一直延伸到現在的把它取消掉了這個部分拜託部長 拜託院長另外一個部分就是我們的捷運藍線這個部分可能明年要發包 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
15054.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
15078.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
所以我們327.31億可是部長這個部分我們必須還要用一個半環狀它才會有價值就是我們的延伸線 藍線的延伸線還有我們的深綠線就是連接我們的南科然後還有我們的紅線就是連接高雄 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
15079.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
15108.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
湖內這一個區塊因為當你這個銜接起來他有一個半環狀他的經濟價值捷運的經濟價值才會高人民要做的意願才會高所以這幾條拜託也一定要趕快來做一些核准你看藍線我們努力多久了你看到明年囉那一天我們賴總統才說在他當行政院長的時候才核可行性評估你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
15117.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
15136.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
好 謝謝陳廷飛委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請魯明哲委員質詢 陳超明委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
15151.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
15174.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
好謝謝主席有請我們行政院卓院長麻煩再請卓院長交通部長備詢好院長部長好謝謝盧委員好今天直接切入主題今天主要談的是桃園航空城這是一個簡單的示意的願景圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
15176.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
15185.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我們看到在過去十幾年好運航空城不斷被行政院列為十二項國家級的優先建設往今十年國家的願景 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
15186.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
15213.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
它是一個國家級的重大公共建設連舊有的機場總共這個都市計畫將近45平方公里4567公頃其中3100多公頃需要做區段徵收旁邊也包括左邊的R3第三跑道那這個部分我想請教一下這個主委院長像這樣的國家級的重大建設你個人的一個願景可不可以簡單表達一下未來會發展什麼樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
15216.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
15239.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
桃園航空城應該是現階段以來國家最大的一個投資的計畫跟工程的計畫它不僅關鍵在國家的門面也對整個區域的土地的高度利用以及對人民生活品質的改善是具有極大的功能的未來整個我們桃竹苗大細股產業的進出要仰賴整個航空城 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
15241.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
15264.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
來帶動所有產業從垂直的供應鏈來做各種的配合我想這個是國家具體的發展目標謝謝院長因為剛剛我們先把這個主題對焦它確實是一個國家級的一個最重大的一個建設計畫第二個呢它是一個根本從桃園國際機場為核心所發展的一個重大的一個計畫這兩個是一個主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
15267.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
15292.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
說真的 我這幾天看到我們民航局我講次長也有去 林次長也有去嘛2025年的桃園國際機場的一個論壇一百多位的學者在那邊交流深度的一個溝通也勾勒出未來我們桃園機場發展的一個願景其實我們看了覺得是很高興但是我今天要講的不是未來有多亮麗 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
15293.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
15319.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我是要講說過去很多養魚的人看到浴缸那個抱歉魚缸裡魚缸裡燈光一打真的是非常璀璨五光十色的魚水草但是我們今天要談是永遠待在腳邊的那條垃圾魚那條青稻埔各位光鮮亮麗的浴缸幾隻垃圾魚在吸著 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
15320.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
15341.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
魚缸上面的一些廢藻一些廢的飼料當然未來我們桃園航空城要這麼亮麗它的廢棄物垃圾這個清道夫垃圾魚到底是要往哪放那我請這個院長部長看一下簡單來說現在整個桃園國際機場垃圾處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
15347.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
15374.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
現在的機制是民國93年所打造的焚化焚化爐現在已經服役了21年因為服役太久了所以它的功能也退化了從每一天預估可以處理120噸到現在只剩下72噸所以現在也面臨了要迎向新的未來那我知道重建計畫也出來了在今年9月14號可信義評估核定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
15375.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
15403.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
預估很合理過去一二行下各60噸再加一個三行下對不對再乘以再加個六七十噸所以他預估了190噸每日的一個焚化量然後他的計劃是用先拆後建你就先把現在有功能雖然只剩下百分之六十七十二公噸每天處理先廢掉然後再開始在上面蓋蓋多久不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
15404.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
15433.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我想這個是機場公司民航局的相關業務你知道這樣的一個情況嗎你覺得這個處理量合不合理報告委員我想您大概也會擔心說我們在拆除119到122年中間這一段時間我們的垃圾應該要往哪裡去這個部分我會請民航局再特別再研究一下去處要先確定才能做拆除的動作如果去處沒有確定這個拆除的動作我認為現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
15434.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
15459.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
還不能夠這麼快去做好 初步看來三個行下再多加六七十表面看是沒有問題但是你仔細去分析發覺他工程的安排量能的決定跟選址真的有非常多可以檢討政策的一個空間院長 其他我們不講20年前民國93年 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
15460.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
15481.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
就只有咕咕的桃園國際機場在那裡旁邊都是農地坦白講我一個人保全家保這種觀念我可以接受啦旁邊沒那麼管都農地啊那就地方政府處理就結束了可是經過了21年之後我們現在國家級的航空成績計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
15483.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
15494.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
以他為核心在擴張這麼配合他的功能結果他現在規劃還是我一家保我自己保他的孩子孫子已經有50人了 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
15496.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
15518.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
所以我要拜託 這個其實今天真的是要拜託這個院長來幫忙一下因為有時候真的有點跨部會但是是機場公司在做一個決策機關所以不從交通委員會來講也不行但是我要真的拜託它不是一個多增加三航廈三跑道的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
15519.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
15543.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
是因為我們國家擬定一個國家級的一個政策變成整個加起來4600多公頃的一個市鎮包括了產專 自貿 學校 商業 工業住宅等等還有其他九大專區未來你可以想像的物流 科技甚至休閒娛樂整個產業我是說真的啦包括民生的廢棄物 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
15544.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
15572.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
跟我們產業的事業廢棄物你不能說我就管我自己旁邊謝謝你們物流都以我為中心很棒大家來襯托我桃園國際機場有多棒院級也講了半天然後抱歉你們垃圾抱歉我不處理那國家級以它為核心的計畫居然後面在垃圾處理廢棄物處理是要用外溢各位就溢到別的地方哪裡我們不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
15573.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
15579.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
所以我這裡真的點出這第一個問題不能這樣不能這樣所以我們看到計畫問題第一個是監獄 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
15583.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
15612.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
這個真的是要部長院長一起努力好我說真的你現在先拆後建啊你現在只有72噸處理那機場又是 ongoing 現在每一天要進出的然後你把它拆掉然後再想辦法什麼辦法地方政府來支援嘛但地方政府問了嘛一天1300噸的垃圾他處理其實捉襟見軸還要累積50年在垃圾場站置的要去計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
15613.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
15637.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那就他們也很辛苦啊有時候釀人不見得可以幫忙那你第二個委託環保公司外應處理其實說真的穩定性啊他丟哪裡真的不知道會不會一個月世界又變一個太陽垃圾世界出來他到底亂到不是這個我們不能不管耶不管追光處理是縣政府只要是不是誰都不重要當國家有垃圾這樣的亂跑的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
15638.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
15666.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我覺得我們行政院尤其在這個在我們機場要處理的能夠幫忙一下這個問題所以第一個在第一個問題我真的是建議老衛市政府跟機場公司在討論整個過程中也參加了他的期中報告期末報告特別提出了希望也建議了兩個新址兩個新址新的地址你不用去把現在正在處理的拆光碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
15668.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
15687.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
在新址能夠做一個處理這個部分我是拜託部長院長可不可以回去研究一下在新址處理的可能性讓先進後拆這種模式可不可以幫忙考量一下謝謝盧委員提出這樣的提醒我覺得非常的重要也感謝如果現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
15688.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
15717.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
桃園國際機場的這個焚化爐的擴建工程沒有辦法像委員所說的將來這個量能不足的話那我想他在可行性評估的過程當中一定會重新加以考量至於委員所建議的先建後拆先建後拆是不是可以找到適當的地點可以先建後拆這個也請納入另外我也請環境部來跟委員答覆在原來的計畫當中119年如果先拆後建拆了之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
15718.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
15738.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
他的垃圾怎麼處理以及航空城他整個多起來的量如何處理是不是除了這個地方之外還有其他的文化廠正在計劃興建當中有沒有辦法來滿足這個部分我想一併整體的來向委員做報告謝謝院長已經有了解這個問題的一個主要的訴求了 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
15739.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
15764.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
現在計畫的問題第一個是說能不能有新的地址能夠先見後猜 無縫接軌之外第二個問題是說量能足不足的問題正好昨天看到我們高雄的越世界一查是台南的還名稱垃圾我以為是事業廢棄物垃圾到底怎麼跑我們不知道我們不講那一條只是說在這樣的一個處理的全國量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
15764.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
15783.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
到底是發生了怎麼回事為什麼有這樣的家用垃圾我們不管是任何縣政府不能處理我也拜託行政院在這樣的一個機會現在你要做一個焚化廠實際上不太容易很難那機場公司是現有因為比較地屬比較偏遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
15784.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
15803.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
確實有這個機會我要拜託第一件事千萬千萬不能夠自己保全家保這種想法190公噸每一天是絕對絕對不負責任的思考不周的我們真的是希望能夠擴展至少要到1000公噸每一天這是我個人的一個建言為什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
15804.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
15833.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
除了第一個要納入航空城未來的發展我們希望他發展的好在我們幾次都市計劃審議跟相關的行政院的會議都預估未來20萬到30萬的人口專業人士要去做進駐第二個其實區域垃圾策略處理你的爐也會睡休嗎我的爐也會睡休其實不管誰有誰出問題現在都是地方在合作合作不了也是行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
15834.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
15860.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
環境部在幫忙去做協調處理所以我們國家有機會的時候要一些餘量我覺得這個是必須要去考量的最後一個要考慮的問題我這次真的是要拜託部長院長這次可信性評估剛過還好我認為還來得及啊因為最大的環評啊環評啊如果環評地點要改定那完了就還沒開始終歸環評都完全還沒開始他預估64億 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
15866.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
15876.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
64億然後能夠處理190噸每一天那我們再想一個問題院長我們想一個問題如果64億可以蓋500噸可以蓋800噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
15880.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
15906.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
甚至只要多個五億十億七十幾億可以蓋到一千噸的處理量他自己處理這種是有自償率的一噸垃圾兩千塊誰哪一個誰要來燒你是要收錢的所以到底可不可以我們希望第三個能不能考量因為投入的成本應該極大化那我們直接來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
15906.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
15926.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我要拜託一下 待會去參考啦我可以資料到時候給院長部長就講近年的遠的不講最近3到5年正在蓋 已經蓋在規劃的一個案子我們現在看第一個就是我們現在的桃園機場預估的要焚化爐花64億蓋190噸日出力量第二個嘉義市的綠能 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
15932.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
15939.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這一個也是焚化爐他是63.7億價錢一樣他處理500噸日出力量那髒冰工業區的他花了58億錢更少蓋700噸的日出力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
15947.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
15972.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
台南晨曦垃圾焚化爐他花了70億每天處理900噸的垃圾量在這裡能不能去第二個以成本效益來考量土地難得取得有這樣的機會如果投入六七十億甚至八十億因為這是可以自償的甚至我們可以自己蓋桃園新北誰的垃圾來一噸2000塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
15974.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
15996.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
這個的部分我覺得是不是請交通部這個部分以64億你們去評估別的如果可以頓速蓋多有餘量處理我們航空城未來發展是基本有餘量幾百噸未來有可能來支援我們行政院全國的一個垃圾調度我想部長這可以幫忙嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
15998.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
16018.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個部分我們來研究一下我想在機場蓋焚化爐一方面是處理垃圾那二方面也要思考一個是非安的問題如果我們做一個很大量的那個煙囪會不會很高周圍的民眾會不會要求煙囪要加高這也是另外一個非安的問題我們可能跟航空城這邊或者是跟淘氣公司我們詳細來研究這個東西一定要研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
16021.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
16037.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我所了解的一定要找一個平衡點現在的技術已經不是量體煙囪要多高的這你要去研究如果也確實有這樣的不影響到飛安又可以去解決這個問題的話我真的希望院長部長能夠一併考量最後三點建議剛剛都已經建議過了第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
16040.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
16065.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
拜託能夠考量加大處理能量量能是一定要的你至少要先把自己航空城納進去然後可以支援多少我們真的是希望能夠到做一個嘛能夠到一千噸第二個希望能夠星子然後做先見後猜垃圾無縫接軌第三個中央跟地方合作為什麼因為這國家級的計畫剛剛看土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
16067.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
16095.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
交通部兩塊桃園市政府幾塊這是以中央地方合作的國家級計畫我想合作的面向一定不能夠省掉我們廢棄無處理好不好非常感謝盧委員這個三點的建議我們非常的重視我們已經請交通部還有環境部好好的跟委員來討論重點在未來中央地方能夠加強合作這個計畫才能可行我們願意來努力我也期待我們桃園機場成為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
16098.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
16109.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
我們核心 航空人核心的一個願景不要變成機場製造門城雪的奇景這個部分需要來幫忙那部長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
16111.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
16133.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那第二個其實不是交通委員會的問題但是實在接到了緊急的陳情跟地方的一個抗爭也沒辦法必須透過這個平台來跟這個院長溝通也希望院長好能夠帶回去帶回去能夠協助去處理好第二問題是我們國軍要在全國興建三座室內清兵地靶場 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
16135.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
16163.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這個部分上面有寫今年跟明年是先期規劃然後116到118是工程的期間他主要的目的第一個室外靶場嘛會吵嘛危險嘛所以要減少居民的抗爭然後兼顧生活的品質第二個降低音爆這是民眾很歡迎的第三個當然是要杜絕維安事件這是要做清兵打場的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
16164.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
16181.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
主要的一個目的我覺得主要目的如果沒有達到的話這個部分可能目標就有問題所以我想先請教因為國防部長畢竟沒來我也不會很苛刻的但是院長你有沒有聽過這個計畫我倒是比較沒有聽到這樣的新的計畫你不知道這個計畫我倒是不知道這個計畫那這個計畫主要目的那我們來看一下發生什麼事呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
16193.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
16222.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那既然你不知道我就不用問了我就直接說了三個計劃這三個靶場從新北桃園到台南三個靶場因為呢你看上面黃志的自由時報在5月19號還特別特別來幫這個專案做一個報導他的標題就是國軍後年興建三座清兵境的靶場落腳在這三個城市吧都已經很熱了可是一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
16223.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
16244.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
三個靶場我們問國防部剛剛也問說沒有這是很重要的我們地方室內靶場我們都支持只是選址你們怎麼選的要清楚結果我不論不知道一問嚇一跳這個計畫才剛開始啟動我一問說他說委員已經有兩個被消滅掉的兩個打岔了我說我的天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
16245.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
16258.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
你才剛起步你就左膀右背都打斷了被誰打斷 自己打斷你看一下新北 新店東營區114年3月20號撤案今年3月20號撤案 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
16264.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
16288.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
國軍已有其他專案了這個你回去給你啊我覺得很離譜你知道嗎國防部管國軍各個部隊然後某一個計劃我要做清兵靶場我編了然後說我是在立法院尋答我整個看經過了非常嚴謹預算都已經選好營區了經過了非常重要的評選的機制選址也是選的非常專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
16289.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
16312.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
結果還沒啟動你知道嗎國防部就自己擦後這個不行哎呀你怎麼不早講我覺得你這裡面有多頭馬車一個國防部你在立法院國防委員會講的斬釘截鐵的話回頭三個巴掌自己還沒啟動滅掉兩個因為有專案3月20號就撤案右邊的台南也是有一個海軍的專案所以都是事後 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
16314.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
16327.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
講了半天預算就通過了結果發覺自己自廢武功啊但我覺得這很糟糕我就覺得這個從選址就已經出了很大的問題國防部裡面到底發生什麼多頭馬車的問題這種已知的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
16329.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
16355.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我跟你跟院長報告這兩個被打X的案子都是已經其他國防部的單位已經執行兩年以上的計劃你知道嗎 國防部他們的市長在要清兵地靶場要出來選址的時候他居然不知道其他專案已經把那地用掉了兩年啊 我的天啊怎麼這麼不精準啊那這兩個是要 那你再看一下下面這個格子 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
16357.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
16376.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我覺得不能這樣因為我們最近也經常為了預算吵架我也相信院長在這裡講很多都是斬釘截鐵的那這個就很扯你看到左邊新北營區3月20號就申請測案國防部心知肚明到了4月24號還寫一個解凍凍了100萬解凍 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
16381.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
16410.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
一個說明書還是在寫我有這三座靶場包括新北的這個靶場我們還是繼續要做所以拜託你凍結一毛都不行你這個東西太離譜了你到了6月11號這兩個都已經自己撤掉了解凍你來國安委員會然後也不講報告也不說明然後通過之後通過你兩個已經廢掉不做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
16411.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
16429.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
你雖然不知道這整個過程可是你覺得這樣的流程是不是有改善的空間我應該先了解一下它原構想是怎麼樣這兩個 新北跟台南的說國軍已有其他的專案是這個靶場移到其他去還是原來這個靶場的用地會有其他的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
16431.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
16444.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
如果是這個靶場用地有其他的計畫那我可以來理解說靶場當然重要但就使用的建設跟使用程度來講他不是一個最精密高度的需求他也許有轉換成其他的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
16447.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
16463.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
國防部一個單位已經執行了兩年計劃結果我們在決定新年度預算的時候居然不知道國防部另外一個單位居然也要在上面蓋營舍蓋靶場這是不對的這個靶場的用地已經有其他的用途了這是絕對不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
16464.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
16484.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
因為不對第一個你內部是不是多頭馬車誰也搞不清楚誰第二個不知情的國防部長跟次長在報告跟立委變成每一句都是騙就是明明已經撤銷了嘛你還要什麼預算我覺得這樣是絕對不行的我覺得希望這個部分啊要帶回去啊那就但是現在有個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
16485.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
16514.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
重大的計畫我要全國蓋三個靶場然後還沒開始自己滅掉兩個現在剩一個靶場這個計畫已經不成計畫你知道嗎你整個區域分配真的已經不成計畫了那你知道剩我桃園的桃園正好在我們中壢現在在幹嘛你看一下那兩個已經是非武功了現在他因為在抗爭中為什麼他在人口稠密區 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
16515.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
16531.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
而且完全沒與地方溝通好不好那這個部分我也是希望院長你能夠真的帶回去啦說真的啦大家對室內靶場只是有個選址的問題你們有119個全國叫做室外的靶場 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
16533.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
16546.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
他們不給我資料就在外面打你任何一個室外靶場當你把它改成室內靶場都叫做優化旁邊的民眾不敢說鼓掌至少你把它改善了我聽不到槍聲炮聲那叫優化 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
16547.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
16573.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
你在桃園隆昌訓練場他是一個閒置我講荒廢國防部說不高興在我的眼前就已經荒廢三十年閒置靶場完全沒有任何駐軍你突然要做一個這樣的一個靶場來你要看一下說拜託這個待會帶回去了地方陳情先看中間那一點不分黨派了好不好不要說誰這個什麼我們誰這個在弄國軍號 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
16579.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
16607.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
藍綠五黨局的都有都來連署他們曾經的訴求也希望要拜託拜託你們這整個大計畫已經自己講不通了兩個都已經廢掉了那第三個在人口稠密區包括了在議會質詢包括了桃園市政府沒有接到任何的訊息現在民政局發文給軍方已經10天了也沒有任何回應我也不知道怎麼回事現在地方正在抗爭連署中 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
16608.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
16616.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
但是為何有這種必要呢是不是為反對而反對呢我們來看現在已經你們打XX的四級廢武宮的兩個營區他是現有駐軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
16621.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
16650.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
左邊是新店的東營區啊它就是現有的軍事營地啊現有軍事營地啊它旁邊都是一種工業區啊有很明顯的區隔帶嘛而且它現有營區嘛但是現在不做了第二個台南的新中營區啊它旁邊基本上都是農業區啊跟大型的農地的一個相關的工廠而且它就是我說的就是用現有營區現有的露天靶場那119座露天的靶場我把它來改 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
16651.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
16678.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我覺得這個東西就蠻好的結果也是不行最後一個看一下現在是中壢在桃園中壢的龍崗綜合訓練場你看一下中間的土其實我們也是將心秉心如果全國就剩下這片土地我們吞也要吞下去可是我說真的這麼多露天靶場該有廢棄可能整個就算桃園也有廢棄20年 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
16680.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
16695.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
空地還在那裡的還軍事營區的有這樣的靶場所以我們覺得這三個靶場兩個在盤點的時候是完全不負責完全不精確所以在盤點才執行的時候發覺哇 這也有問題當時誰提報的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
16697.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
16720.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
你但凡你去深入知道有計劃就不會去練表現在盤點在規劃你就是不負責任的所以包括了龍崗綜合訓練場他是一個廢棄園區旁邊是國民運動中心所以院長國民運動中心都是人口密集區啊他在這邊整個人口密集區中間要做一個室內靶場看左邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
16722.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
16735.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
零兩條路而已我覺得當時在選址的時候真的很離譜一條路龍昌路最窄市民我告訴你軍車你還跟民車那旁邊都住宅區另外一條比較大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
16736.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
16753.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
最窄的地方8.5米停個車剩6米所以我是在這裡是不是能夠拜託我們院長針對於兩個已經廢棄掉的跟這個我們希望人口密集區現在已經發包400多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
16755.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
16781.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
在那邊挖來挖去弄來弄去那我是在這裡是不是也能夠會後另外送我們地方的連署書也請我們的院長能夠跟國防部相關的單位去了解一下如果當時選舉選址是真的是不精確所以還沒開始就劃掉兩個這一個又在人口密集區啊能不能 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
16782.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
16801.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
回去來討論來重新研究考量好不好我請國防部就三個靶場以及改變的狀況改變的原因跟這個龍昌靶場他目前還進行規劃的需求詳細跟委員報告同時要兼顧地方的民情反應今天的結論就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
16802.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
16818.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
不要忘記我們國軍的報告說為什麼要做三座室內清兵力靶場開宗明義就是第一個減少民眾的成抗提升民眾的生活品質那就問第一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
16819.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
16842.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
奇怪 民眾就在成抗嘛我剛剛也可以看 你回去也Google旁邊是不是住宅區 騙不了人如果旁邊是人口稠密區緊鄰的就是國民運動中心跟公園大人小孩都在那裡我是覺得我所知道還有非常非常多更適合的我不是說不要做喔 我們支持更適合荒廢的靶場 優先來做所以我的建議是 第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
16843.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
16869.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
全面 既然兩個已經停了 不是我叫停了兩個都停 你光弄這個人口密集區我講真的 民眾的抗爭一定會不服氣啦所以希望能夠全面暫停目前的規劃跟地方溝通第二個 請拜託拜託國防部在這一次 你可以再找三座請三座重新來去評估不要發聲國防部內部 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
16870.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
16887.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
別人已經用了你還在去弄對於外面民眾的荒廢的營區要避開我們的人口稠密區所以我們希望能夠優先利用現有的室外靶場把它優化跟營區那最後一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
16887.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
16914.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
避開人口稠密區啦還有交通平均市民你的軍車鑽過去的話我是覺得不要說車不車禍啦整個民眾的住宅區來來去去造成很多民怨這個部分跟軍民一家我覺得目標也有一點違背這個部分我們真的希望能夠帶回去跟國防部能夠充分考量好不好我請國防部儘速的詳細跟委員做報告說明謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
16917.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
16919.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
好 謝謝魯明哲委員的質詢 謝謝卓院長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請陳超明委員質詢 顏寬恆委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
16953.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
16963.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
主席院長好首先有請卓院長跟我們速發部我們的林部長麻煩請卓院長速發部備詢謝謝 陳國元好卓院長 林部長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
16977.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
16991.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
首先這一張文章部長你看到應該感到很高興這篇文章你看我仔細的讀仔細的看你每一個內容AI可以說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
16992.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
17006.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
AI的新十大建設可以說是我們行政院最重要的一個政策那你裡面談到非常重要的一個觀點你說要把AVI的數位化變成一種產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
17008.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
17031.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
另外一種專案但是你在這篇文章為什麼很多軟體界的時候都說這篇文章要好好讀一定要跟院長跟部長簽譽我們做Plus就是模組化的產品說這樣子我們的軟體才能真正的賺錢另外如果你做那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
17035.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
17057.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那個專案的話等於我們客製化的話只能在台灣這邊流通競爭的鑰匙好壞不曉得又要常常的修改那經濟部也把AI的軟體當為非常重要但是你這篇文章算很深入總理長你也找對人但是要怎麼做你下去研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
17058.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
17073.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
因為AI的軟體跟一般的軟體不一樣它是要深度學習整個一套的連環作業在但是你這樣悄悄的 把你惹惹你就感覺很懷疑但是很多人 軟體業都不曉得你這個做的產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
17074.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
17093.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
模組化的產品要如何做很多人不曉得所以希望你在這邊加強一下下文章是很好很實用但是你推進的方式沒有一個明確的密碼希望在這一方面加強是 謝謝委員我們這一方面簡單 我只有15分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
17098.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
17120.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
簡單來講我們要把它做成產品化不管是需求方或者供應方雙方都要改進需求方必須做出很明確的產品然後有明確的價格就是我們看是每個帳號多少錢或者是使用量多少錢然後他必須做定時的更新你要做產品的方式一定高估這些軟體業者讓他們了解還有一點特別注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
17121.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
17136.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
你應該跟產業界的結合因為AI的軟體以後是用在機器人上面自我學習看過了以後會照著人類的行為在做這點加強因為以後的伺服器那些都變成一個非常競爭的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
17138.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
17157.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
軟體是永久的 台灣的軟體落後經濟部也在談這個 國會也在談這個 世衛部也在談這個那個一定要把它整合起來 不然我們電子車會死是 那我們政府作為採購方 我們必須調整可以的 因為我要問的問題太多了這點我領導給他請教 好好的發揮 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
17160.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
17164.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
詳細再寫一篇文章再讓國人都了解未來怎麼做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
17189.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
17213.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
我們的陳部長 沈院長 你們兩個都寫得很嚴重我現在說 請院長跟部長延續對苗栗的善意讓苗栗大步發展向前我今天做了很多 譬如西湖西河提講過或是苗栗造橋交流道那我第一 第一次開始做到第三次完成你們來動工典禮 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
17214.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
17229.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
但是啊我今天要老實講卓院長跟陳部長我看你們兩個眼睛前輩都跟我說的事情都說好搞不好我現在都沒有結果我覺得很無力啊我當時十一屆的立委到現在兩年多 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
17231.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
17248.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
我本來抱著期望很高但是你到現在都沒有做到最好來來來 我一條一條跟你說我不是在跟你說 我是知道的人我都說知道的第一條 苗栗高鐵站值得再增搬 變節地方鄉親 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
17250.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
17257.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
放到遊客 我們現在一點鐘一班 兩點鐘兩班但是我們的遊客的旅客的數量在2024年已經達到120萬了我只能拜託 不然我怕我待在荒謬說你這個旅費不夠我們連安的環境 我懸不懸 卑賤的請求 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
17273.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
17284.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
兩個小時增加到三班 不能像大陸企鋪在歐盟半點前鋪一班這樣不合理啦我們要你現在進步 保庭院院長能不能支持這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
17286.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
17304.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
高鐵他就是一個高速運輸的一個功能他要增班或是停靠都必須有專業的考量那這個部分我認為地方如果有需求交通部一定會責成高鐵公司能夠去考量到地方的需求但是他整個的運量速度跟他的整個服務的品質還是要考量在內所以我現在說這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
17312.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
17337.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
兩點鐘 三班 幾班 這樣你們有沒有困難好 我拜託 給我建築我有跟高鐵說 說沒問題但是你交通部不怎麼贊成啊您的建議 應該就是看這個需求量那我也會找高鐵公司來討論一下就是以這個需求量來看因為他們也是要考量到速度那您再建議的就是兩個小時的範圍來跟他們建議好不好 一定嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
17337.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
17363.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
不然我等一下幫你修好但是前幾天我說政社院裡交流到新增南北之路閘道我這樣不配你你看那個表我從2007年開始到現在114年典禮時間你講去一定會幫助我完成那上個月我要接到你們公務 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
17365.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
17375.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
是啊 交通部又跟我打回票你這人沒高意識你知道 你雞腿你知道 苗栗就非常重要這一條連絡道路以前設計錯誤你給我答應好都沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
17377.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
17403.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
請部長來說明一下我有到現場看過那個地方我也熟悉因為他是跟台中市交界的地方那現在不是退回現在是希望說地方再補一些比較具體的文件例如說因為那個地方比較特殊啦地點在台中市地點在台中市但是那個預算苗栗有答應要出這個要更具體一點我第一期我終期完成現在在動工 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
17404.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
17430.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
現在第二次我想說這個有一個糾體可能經費這麼多安生這個你省了以後我才推這個那些我兩者一起推但是你那個交流道一定要完成交流道的部分我們請提防再把他這個把那個文件補齊就好你下去到彥嶺比我還受歡迎還是你跟安東我不知道你跟我們答應都沒有跟我們做我跟他說要跟你拼命 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
17431.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
17450.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
要不要完成這個 這個很重要我們把該補齊的文件補齊就可以了那是連本命區 你們拿票最大的地方我只是全力而為 不分黨派因為這個對院理政非常重要一定 保證今天給我答應的不然我今天不下執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
17451.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
17471.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這個執行台啦謝謝委員 因為你給他後漏了所以他還得應代理受訪問他要繼續嗎 這個事情他有答應嗎你只要那個工人打回票的時候 我就這樣頭髮變白了好不好不是文件啦 不是打回票一定會完成的齁 今年給我核定啦我們馬上補了 而且我也開完會了他們會請你去補再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
17474.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
17500.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
台72線銜接台61線西濱公路打通我們在苗栗的交通路網我一定要報告你們是看我們苗栗的人還是沒有什麼我們台灣所謂的72線就是東西巷都總有12條東西巷快速道路只有苗栗關沒有跟西濱台61線跟那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
17503.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
17523.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
國道3號連接這條起來我們就比較有聯絡網但是在溝通彼此有那個我已經親自又指示了大家全力支持這個方案由苗栗縣政府 縣議會 政工所全部都來支持你們又要反對所以我們在反對這應該是地方民眾的意見對路線的選擇還在協調當中交通部應該有在努力這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
17532.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
17534.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
我們表裡有許多花瓶 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
17535.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
17562.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
我才知道很困難 但是我們都盡量在做這條再給我加一條你們已經合訂了 可惜這次我路線不一樣 你們就不來做再給我講財政措施的話我才不得你跟委員報告 這個您也有參與協調地方對於路線的選擇還有一些意見縣政府已經來拜會公路局了針對路線的部分大家有共識之後我們會再辦第二次的地方說明會 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
17563.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
17574.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
你第二次做團會來召開絕對路線啦吼 無意義大交通會贊同阿你這個不用我們請委員幫忙啦請委員幫忙啦 請委員幫忙才能達成一致這個來我們就給外國人咧交通啊是建設之母跟營發電啦 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
17583.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
17597.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
陳副長 卓院長 兩位都沿途你也給我們拜託不要再求人表了關 你要做一些成績請委員幫忙讓地方的意見一致那交通部跟地方政府合作就好處理再來台13線 銅鑼道3億托分這條公規你每要做 我希望趕快 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
17603.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
17621.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
好不好 你都有去喔你都覺得要做喔都覺得苗栗的建設很可能就會比較少有爭議的那一段我們先不做後面沒有爭議 相信同意的那一段我們來做總統跟你提拔車交通部長很難得好好在苗栗發揮你們有機會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
17628.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
17644.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
謝謝委員一直為地方的建設在發聲音我們都會支持這樣的建設海鮮鐵路三軌化 我跟你講你現在看地圖現在三軌化有兩個地方三個地方沒有 潭雲到大山 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
17645.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
17666.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
還有巴西屯到新埔還有通宵到彥嶺這個經費差不多六十幾億七十億左右我講十年我那時候聽你們那些南部、中部說你們的捷運系統都幾百億在那裡這六七十億你們都不敢把這一條線打通雙規劃的話你看你們這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
17673.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
17679.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
你剛剛所說的部長都點頭了只是說有些地方我一上任他都點頭到現在我都沒有看到成績啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
17693.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
17713.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我們非常重視 因為未來苗栗桃竹苗大溪谷建設起來是一個臺灣的引擎 進步的引擎所以我們先把這個交通基礎要建設好大溪谷計畫你要全力支持我還有問幾個問題到現在還有一兩個問題還沒有解決我希望一定 我親自邀請你 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
17714.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
17737.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
來吃客家菜我給你報告實際的情形讓你來替我們解決我看你們不斷在講推三指四的沒那個氣氛沒那個閃燈好不好好的這點我一定要跟你拜託這個再來合體公共這個鄉鎮很小是我把它完成了一個藍燭白日的 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
17739.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
17754.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
這個鄉鎮七千人但是五年前才有超商在這一邊但是這個地方很漂亮你把這個河堤公共地私企還有這個西湖區被日蘭吃的砸到這一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
17756.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
17779.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
可能施工會比較困難但是我想這樣的機制能克服這個票數雖然少但是他們很熱忱我覺得要幫忙這個西湖鄉鎮把這個完成起來就是非對他們地方服務地方的繁榮發展很重要你來走一路你就知道很好的地方但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
17780.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
17807.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
什麼公路經過 高速鐵路 高鐵經過高速公路經過 他們那邊都沒有交流道只有休息站幫給債務 那個地方繁榮發展沒有啊所以你們看的商票往大都市的地方走要寫存償名票少 但是人很熱忱地方很尊心的時候 我們就要把它扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
17809.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
17838.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
好 你要來看嘛 可能說的你不太知道 你不去啦這個我都已經立案了 我已經開了三次會跟你們一起協調了 會刊了三次我這在地 我都親身去腳踏實地 去勘察 去做決定希望你們能夠支持一下因為時間要到了 我這樣說一下再來 通宵生命產業 通宵職工同路科學 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
17839.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
17851.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
昨天台電中油大概有去了解了這個狀況到時候你趕快協助幫忙因為這個地方人口一直在流失這個很重要再來Royalbike怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
17853.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
17876.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
臺中的跟表列的聯合界的地方你說要全力支持報告委員現在在台鐵的董事會那邊的程序正在進行已經在了 好 謝謝你這串聯起來是禮物最多的地方總院長跟交通部還有今天所有官員你們去做一趟你們才曉得臺灣人怎樣利用這個本來你們不要的東西把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
17887.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
17913.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
好 謝謝謝謝陳昌明委員的質詢謝謝卓院長交通部長的備詢 謝謝接下來登記第五號呂玉玲委員的質詢以書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報接下來我們請登記第六位顏寬恆委員質詢鄭振前委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
17921.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
17929.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
主席各位列席官員各位本院的同仁大家好主席有請行政院卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
17939.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
17957.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
謝謝 嚴委員好 院長好今天交通組的質詢我一樣要來關心我們台中市的重要交通建設台中高鐵特區未來的交通問題高鐵娛樂城在我們經常我們出入高鐵車站台中站一定會看到一個很 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
17959.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
17988.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
一個非常大型的一個開發案總投資金額超過260億那基地面積超過15公頃那周邊的交通一定是無法負荷那之前我們已經提到就是國道1號增設烏日交流道或者是優化台氣四線高鐵站閘道讓進入高鐵站區跟進到高鐵漁樂城的車輛可以分流那可不可以請院長來說明一下這個進度目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
17989.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
18009.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
是偵測閘道的問題跟現在整個交通的規劃在標準上好像有必要要進行相關的討論細節我請部長來做說請部長跟委員報告兩個議題一個是國道一號的閘道的部分我們鐵道局已經有補助給地方政府也就是台中市政府97萬的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
18011.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
18033.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
讓他去做這方面的研究跟初步的評估目前需要台中市政府提供他們的參數因為我那天有去那邊現場看台中市政府是說他們有規劃一條路線但那個參數還沒有給我們的高工局看過所以我們請他提供給我們高工局來看不過那個地方也跟委員報告您也在那個地方進出很清楚我們那段的高速公路是非常的彎 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
18034.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
18063.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那個彎道是非常的彎所以它有高低差建設交流道其實會有一定的技術上面的難度不過我們還是有撥預算請台中市政府先做初步的評估這個部分已經在做了另外針對74號閘道以外還有未來整個的輸運的方式我們其實鐵道局也有協助請開發商這邊提供一筆七八百萬的預算我印象中是七百多萬的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
18063.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
18084.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
給台中市政府做整體的評估那其中也會包含了74號的閘道的部分那這個部分我們也還在討論當中對 依照我們現在有的資料就是說這個可能的區位國道醫藥偵測烏日交流道的部分它已經出來了區位已經出來但是它的那個參數還沒有提供給我們的高速公路局 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
18084.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
18101.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
好 那他現在已經是初步方案就是說已經有了那等他會送給我們交通部資料期末報告做好之後會送到交通部過來再請交通部來補助他的這些協助他做一個可行性研究這部分這個要請交通部來 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
18102.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
18119.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
大家參數要對齊另外74線因為我們經常進出台中高鐵站你都知道在74號接高鐵的時候他有一個斷面我們下去本來雙車道變成單一車道所以他留一個斷面就是當初在設計的時候就有保留 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
18120.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
18137.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
可能從那邊就可以直接銜接到我們的高鐵二樓的下車區也就是這張圖上面的紅色這條線這條線所以當初就已經有預留了已經有預留這個部分已經目前我有詢問台中市政府它的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
18138.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
18162.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
他說這個部分因為全責分工還需要公路局的釐清所以相關的法規儀式的部分要解釋的部分他們已經在今年的7月23號發函給公路局在等待公路局的回覆所以這個要請部長回去要趕快把這個事情來督促一下各位報告我們都知道那裡有一條本來要延伸出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
18163.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
18181.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
但是我們整個高鐵那邊的整個計劃已經結束了高鐵台中站的計劃已經結束了那也就是說下面的道路現在的圍管其實是台中市政府所以這個部分我們有建議台中市政府由他們來提出這個可行性評估那我們來做評估部長你說的是高鐵通路拓寬 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
18182.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
18208.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那我講的是我們閘道要下來當然有一個預留斷面有一個斷面你每天從那邊進出你去看就是保留一個斷面那個斷面就是未來要銜接到高鐵二樓的乘客下車區那個部分這個部分我在這邊提醒一下那我想我去年的10月18號一樣的在這邊質詢的時候也有問到高鐵娛樂城的事情當時也要求院長跟部長就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
18209.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
18237.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
你們已經成立了鐵道局成立了一個專案小組那我們希望專案小組他在邀請台中市府或高鐵公司在召開這個會議的時候也可以通知我們辦公室或者是說會後將這些會議紀錄會議的一個紀錄來通知我們但是兩位都說好可是這一年已經過去了一年過了總共開了幾次會報告委員應該是開了兩三次會了四次啦 已經開四百會了 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
18239.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
18252.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那開始是我們沒有接獲任何一次的通知然後也沒有接獲任何這個會議後的一些報告的資料所以我想再一次的請部長跟院長是說今年你就答應我因為我們希望可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
18254.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
18279.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
即時的了解整個進度那你們也承諾了也答應我但是並沒有通知然後也沒有補充資料所以我想在這邊再提醒一下可不可以從這一刻開始為會後未來任何關於我們高鐵特區的這樣子的一個整個道路也好或者是閘道整個交通的部分未來的會議一樣的來通知本席辦公室好不好可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
18280.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
18295.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
報告委員這個沒有問題啦那另外就是包含您剛說的四次會議還有就是江副院長他們有在那邊考察過一次那個相關的資料考察兩次啦兩次我們都了解然後再請教就是說你們我們那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
18296.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
18316.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
鐵道局補助了97萬給台中市府然後去做這個新增閘道連接高鐵特區的初步規劃依照目前的了解說他已經接近期末報告了快要完成完成之後就會送給交通部那這個部分我要再請教就是說直接請問我們院長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
18318.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
18328.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
我們高鐵娛樂城這個開發案他的這樣子的一個叫做實質他的本質是什麼高鐵娛樂城開發案的本質 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
18336.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
18354.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
軌道交通運輸他主要除了本身路線的營運之外重點他的物業管理他的區域開發都是在支撐高鐵整個不僅是本身財務也是地方發展重要的依據那受益者是誰受益者是大眾啊大眾嘛除了大眾之外直接受益的是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
18356.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
18385.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
高鐵會如果有實際的收益的話就鐵道局這個是鐵道局的促參案所以直接受益者就是我們鐵道局是我們交通部所以關於不管是烏日閘道烏日交流道的一個設置還有我們這個新設閘道要銜接高鐵下車區還有74號的一個優化所有的這些交通問題都必須要仰賴交通部我們行政院的協助烏日區我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
18386.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
18415.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
整個台中市市政府全力的投入來協助我們還有一個部長也是來自於我們烏日保定做議員的時候就是我們五年我們自己在地的議員對不對寬能力來自於烏日所以我們烏日未來的一個包含現在高鐵特區再加上我們鐵路高架我接下來要請教就是鐵路的部分我們看一下這個部分大慶到烏日大慶大慶到烏日站高架 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
18416.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
18421.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
這我們說幾年了從當時我們部長保定在這議員2010年到現在這個案子我們一直在討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
18425.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
18447.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
包括上面看到的總經費還有自償率還有中央跟地方各自負擔的部分討論了好多次從五十三億一直到八十三億大家都知道啦這個行為要做到五十我們這裡有部長來自於烏日還有我們寬仁也是來自於烏日市政府也是全力的要來協助這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
18448.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
18462.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
但是就等待我們這個中央就是我們交通部但是來來回回包括海線雙軌高架總共這樣子退回退建退了5次 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
18463.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
18485.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
退了五次所以要請教部長到底我們這個大慶高架報告委員這是我當初我在當議員的時候爭取的這個政見之一我當然很努力想要實現它但我了解之後之所以會推薦是因為我們鐵道局這邊或者是台鐵公司這邊我們的題目都已經公布了答案也公布了 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
18486.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
18500.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
地方政府必須照那個題目跟答案下去寫如果可以寫就不會推薦我們不斷在跟地方政府在溝通這個議題坦白講就是他們希望這個錢的分配的議題能夠對台中市政府有利一些不過我們這個有一定的法規在走 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
18501.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
18515.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
所以鐵道局必然是用我們的原本的答案在走所以我們也希望台中市政府可以努力一些這並不是中央在拖如果台中市政府願意用中央所規範的分配比例我想這個速度會相當的快 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
18516.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
18541.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那你可以指導他你可以要求他我們在推薦的過程當中來回的過程當中都有指導也有建議希望在你臨來我們可以看得到看得到大慶烏日大慶戰他可以啟動我們一起跟台中市政府來溝通大家都在等 都在看有一個部長來自於烏日但是烏日鐵路高架到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
18541.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
18557.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
文鋒未動再加上整個海線公園高架海中市政府如果願意配合的話速度會非常快當然配合 一定全力配合前期制的推薦就是沒有配合其實整個流程看下來大家都知道現在是問題出在哪裡重點到底問題出在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
18558.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
18572.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
我們中央有沒有協助我希望在我們未來不要太久的時間我們這一屆任期能夠把這事情促成讓台中市有一個完整的鐵路建設 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
18574.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
18596.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
再加上剛剛我們前一位陳超明委員從海線這個苗栗一直一直攔下到台中到台中海線雙軌高架這整個鐵路計畫也一樣延宕到現在完全沒有進度我剛剛講了已經退建退了五次所以我要請教部長到底海線雙軌高架什麼時候可以來協助他 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
18597.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
18623.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
海線的雙軌高價化這個當時十幾年在爭取可行性研究的時候是我那個時候當議員去拜託蔡其昌委員一起來爭取的所以這一段我也很有使命感希望他可以趕快完成那也跟委員報告目前雙軌化的部分已經在環評已經在環評當中但是高價化的部分跟上一個議題一樣就是台中市政府對於這個分攤的經費有意見沒有辦法以 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
18625.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
18642.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
中央給的答案來答覆的時候這個部分就會比較慢為了要讓速度可以加快一點我們把雙軌跟高架會分開走雙軌的部分我們繼續走高架的部分等台中市政府這邊答應了之後我們再來走 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
18643.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
18665.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
好 請你時間要趕快 要做到不做到台中市政府配合都很快就做了我補充一句這個現在不只是交通部是國發會要求台中市政府報出一個修正計畫那台中市政府還沒有報出也請委員能夠去協助請台中市政府能夠儘快的報出修正計畫我們就進行討論後續的進度就可以往前走 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
18665.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
18694.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
好 接下來再請教關於提高六期環保車的營運年限的部分因為我們接獲大客車整體產業工會的一個陳情在民眾用車安全無虞同時政府又希望遊覽車業者加速 太舊換新但是現行的法規都已經不合時宜了有兩大訴求我們希望院長跟部長一起來推動第一點就是因為最新的六期環保新車希望將新車的營運年限再提高五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
18695.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
18723.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
再提高5年不然的話跟舊車的連線一樣就沒有誘因能夠讓這些業者跟司機來進行汰換第二點就是關於修法的問題因為未滿15年的老車購換新車的貨物稅可以希望可以直接免徵貨物稅為什麼要這樣因為目前現行的法規獎勵貨物稅是40萬對不對是40萬那因為現在通膨的問題還有這些物價新車的價位越來越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
18724.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
18753.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
越來越高所以基本上5%的貨物稅已經來到八九十萬了到八九十萬了原本我們補助的也四十萬現在已經八九十萬了所以說我們希望說貨物稅十二之六條所規定的太舊換新的條件可以太舊換新的這些車輛必須要修補因為符合上面規定的九十五年以前出廠的車輛二十年現在一一四九十五已經二十年了所以這些車輛已經是數量非常非常的少 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
18754.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
18776.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
所以如果法規還是沒有去調整那符合這樣子的一個資格是免徵的資格是很少的所以我在這邊就是說要跟院長跟部長說明包含了車體結構組裝各式零件還有駕駛人員還有業者維修保養車輛檢驗等等這些涉及的層面非常的廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
18776.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
18805.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
所有的從業人員人數也很多背後都是非常辛苦的家庭所以再加上要許多載運乘客的相關規定導致我們現在現有的舊車能夠承載的這些客源越來越少越來越少所以市場持續的萎縮影響到的是數以萬計的從業人員跟家庭免徵貨物稅然後增加購買新車的誘因可以照顧到這些從業人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
18806.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
18813.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
那也可以減輕他們的負擔更是可以大大提升我們乘車的安全所以這個部分我希望說院長跟部長來趕緊召開會議來研擬這個事情好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
18817.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
18843.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
交通部 這除了交通部的業務之外應該有環境部相關甚至貨物稅也要請財政部來表達意見我知道了 部長 院長因為這個涉及的層面也非常的廣剛剛你提到還有跨部會的問題需要溝通協調所以你不必在現在來回覆我但是希望我們回去之後就召開這樣子的專案會議然後請部長跟這個部會之間來做一個溝通協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
18850.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
18876.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
好謝謝顏寬恆委員質詢謝謝卓院長交通部長備詢謝謝抱怨會在一場二樓旁聽來自文化大學法律系的同學我們掌聲歡迎各位同學接下來我們請今天質詢最後一位委員鄭正前委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
18886.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
18889.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
謝謝主席我想請一下卓榮泰院長麻煩再請卓院長備選 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
18900.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
18919.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
政務員好 局長好我記得上次在教育組的資訊的時候我特別有提到唐竹苗大細股計畫最主要就是因為地方還有比方說清大他們當時都很積極在提出計畫可是中央政府的反應有點慢我今天同樣要問到一個狀態其實就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
18921.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
18943.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
大新竹輕軌因為大新竹輕軌在行政院2024年2月20號就公佈特別把大新竹輕軌計畫納入桃竹苗大細股計畫當中說實話這個計畫一納進來的時候地方其實是非常的興奮的所以在3月4號新竹市政府就已經整合好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
18943.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
18959.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
就是新竹縣同時也發文出來要爭取一個可行性評估的一個經費那這個經費我們就一路往下走那麼到了5月14號縣市政府一起拜訪了一個鐵道局然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
18960.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
18988.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
本辦公室在7月11號的時候也召開協調會然後在我們國發會的大力支持之下的時候也要求了我們鐵道局這邊就是盡速來做處理結果一路拖下來到了我們這次總諮詢前一個禮拜的時候11月13號終於撥下來了那麼這樣一個可行性評估就足足拖了八個月的時間那本席為什麼特別提到這狀態就是說好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
18988.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
19012.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
交通部這邊已經批了一個經費下來好像應該就結束了可是因為最主要是因為如果是國家重大建設的時候我們希望中央政府能夠扮演更積極的角色而不是地方用百米的速度在跑可是中央的反應其實很龜速針對這個部分可不可以請院長這邊特別宣示一下我們針對整個桃園大細股計畫的一個積極支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
19013.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
19030.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
桃豬苗大細股是政府在六大產業生活圈當中第一個核定的他速度是跑在最前面的那剛剛你所說到這個可行性評估如果我知道是應該撥的兩千一百萬的補助給市政府那市政府正在考慮說要不要在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
19031.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
19059.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
討論的過程當中如何引進民間的參與所以他有一些想法所以這個過程當中交通部也事先有這樣一個想法所以有討論過一段時間那過程請部長能夠再說明跟委員報告其實當時要整合紅藍線縣市之間大家要不要合併起來討論當然也花了一些時間當大家在3月有共識之後其實交通部也很積極在審議這個過程那另外針對未來的營運方案的部分其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
19060.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
19084.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
各方也都有一些意見我們也用最快的速度已經核定了2100萬的科技研究的進度謝謝部長 我想說在這邊的時候因為我要特別感謝國發會因為他真的認為桃豬苗大新武計畫當中的大新武輕軌是很重要的一個交通的一個主軸所以如果不是國發會積極去推的時候我們擔心這個問題還會繼續往下 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
19086.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
19112.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
延後喔那我們希望整個大新竹輕軌的部分的時候能夠得到院長跟部長的強力支持那我們希望能夠儘速往下推因為新竹科學園區真的有太多的工作人員在這邊可是他們的交通工具其實非常非常的薄弱都要靠自己我們覺得大新竹輕軌是對於竹科一個最重要的一個回饋好不好所以交通補助之後現在市府對可行性 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
19113.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
19137.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
這個評估進行招標的過程這過程當中我們真的覺得地方很認真跑得很快可是交通部這邊感覺有點慢了那現在經費下來了沒有關係因為原本要求4600萬我們給了2100萬沒問題我覺得現在繼續往下走希望交通部給最迅速的一個支持好不好好 跟委員報告這個可行性研究的速度要看市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
19138.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
19157.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
理解接下來我想特別講到一個狀態就是一個淘機的問題過去兩年的時候淘機大概被媒體特別關注到的一個事故大概超過10件有漏水的問題有公安的問題有漏油的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
19158.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
19176.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
然後還有天花板電線走火的問題還有包括停電的問題還有一些環境意味的問題等等有些大 有些小我在想說因為陶基畢竟是門面再加上交通部現在其實也很想要繼續推動一個整個造園的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
19178.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
19188.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
就是旅遊的一個計畫這樣子所以本席就特別關注到整個淘機的狀態我想請教一下因為我們現在在講淘機的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
19191.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
19213.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
北郎廳預計什麼時候開始試營運年底12月31號還是12月1號這個交通部要找一個黃道即日我們現在在看比較適當的時機點在年底之前會完成營運那針對北郎廳這個部分因為跟整個T3航站的時候其實它有一些落差北郎廳先弄好它就先開放大概會有八個登機口 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
19215.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
19242.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
那我這邊要特別提到院長你知道在今年五月份的時候T3航站北洋廳外面的時候發生很大規模的漏油事件院長知道這個事情嗎我知道有這個事情但是我那個時候沒有到現場去看過這部分可不可以請部長稍微回應一下我為什麼特別提到這個問題是因為我們淘機T3航站從開始動工到現在已經七年的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
19244.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
19271.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
這7年的時間到現在我們北郎町剛開始要試營運的時候剛好碰到了我們的水管跟油管可能必須要更新的一個時間我不曉得這個部分交通部有沒有特別去關注到還是就讓它往下走到時候碰到問題再說而我必須要講到今年的5月份的時候已經出現油管漏油的事件而且非常的大規模部長會不會簡單回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
19272.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
19287.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
跟委員報告您所說的這個油管漏油跟T3航廈本身的建置是沒有關係但是外圍確實我們的這個機場也用了蠻久的年限您今天的提醒我們就針對所有的管路跟管線我們會特別請陶基公司特別再檢視一遍 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
19288.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
19308.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
因為這裡面碰到了水閥跟油閥的一個問題因為說實話專業的人士他們在說我們這個油閥大概五到十年必須要更新現在剛好就是很重要必須要去做的事情我們希望安全性的部分一定要特別把它顧慮起來好不好五月份的一個漏油事件的時候不要再繼續的一個發生好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
19310.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
19320.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那我想說接下來我想請教一下就是剛剛也特別提到賴總統提到觀光立國這個事情那麼在十月底的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
19323.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
19348.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
陳部長這邊也特別提到就是我們去年的關關產值到達8378億元對不對然後比前一年增加9.5%然後接下來的時候我們預計2030年要達到一個造園目標請問一下這樣子的一個目標是不是很具體是確定在2030年要達到造園的一個目標可不可以請院長回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
19350.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
19371.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
對 我們是設定了這樣一個目標包括人數 包括整個產業 產值所以我們現在全力在論述台灣的故事包括我們的北回歸線我們的南灣 微笑南灣 南部的南灣以及北回之巔但是我們不會以南部為主我們會把台灣北部東部串聯起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
19371.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
19385.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
東部因為最近受到交通的損害相當大所以我們會把包括桃園、新竹、台北串聯起來讓北部也成為一個可以論述故事的台灣景點因為你提到說要幫台灣說故事那我這邊要特別提到是具體的數字的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
19387.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
19400.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
因為2030年要達到造源目標的時候坦白說數字好像很大可是其實它就出現一個很掉軌的狀態因為目前台灣每年的CPI物價成長的指數大概在2.5%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
19402.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
19423.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
而行政院提出來的2030年兆元目標接下來每一年預計成長2%到3%就可以達到這個目標所以我們會出現一個非常詭異的狀態到目前為止到2030年我們基本上是只要維持現狀明目物價成長就會達到兆元 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
19424.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
19449.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
所以本席認為這樣子的一個KPI值是不是有問題就特別提出來因為造園觀光是我們真正的希望它成長而不是因為通膨把物價推波上去所以如果說接下來到2030年每年只要2%到3%就可以達到造園的時候我覺得這不是我們應該定出來的目標所以我在想這邊可不可以請院長這邊再做一些補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
19450.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
19467.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
然後我們針對這些有沒有具體的一個人次或者是說對於怎麼樣吸收吸引國外的遊客來除了說故事這個部分有沒有具體的一個數字還有一個部分我們要怎麼樣提升國旅因為這個造園觀光的產值包含國旅也包括國外到台灣來這個消費好 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
19469.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
19482.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
交通部觀光署的計畫我等一下請部長說明包括國旅我先跟我們報告我們在明年的中央政府總預算裡面有一個重要的重點叫做推升內需推升內需其中一項就是擴大我們的觀光產業我們希望用演唱會經濟會展經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
19487.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
19506.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
國際會議經濟以及國際體育賽事來拉動台灣的整個觀光吸引更多的外國人來這是吸引外國人來的部分但是我們也鼓勵國人在國內做國內的旅遊所以交通部已經提出了很多配套的措施所以院長所以你提到這部分的時候項目可能都很好可是我的數字是有問題的我們會再重新檢討數字是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
19508.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
19529.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
跟委員報告我們其實每一個計畫都有很詳細的內容在明年度的預算如果委員在審預算的時候應該就會看到我們針對剛剛院長所說的我們的會展經濟也好演唱會經濟也好商展經濟等等各方面不管是國外的旅客或國內的旅客我們都有一個提升的方案甚至對於國內的旅客我們現在看到旅租也有一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
19530.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
19543.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
假日的時候很多人住但是平日的時候住的人比較少所以會造成說假日它的價格會非常高所以我們對於平日的住宿我們希望有一個補助方案鼓勵我們的民眾在平日可以去住飯店理解 所以你說20億元的一個促銷方案嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
19548.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
19565.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
針對通膨下去去設定兆元的產值的部分因為其實我們觀光的設定是以現在的物價的狀況不會把通膨加進去原因是因為通膨在變我們沒有辦法去評估通膨未來是高還是低不過我原則提醒跟院長剛剛的指示我們未來會針對這個數字再做更詳細的評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
19569.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
19592.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
因為我在想說目前我們看到數的數字包括國旅支出每年增加4.12%這是觀光署的一個資料和近年的CPI年增率又到2.5%所以實質增長大概只有1.62%我覺得這數字是不夠漂亮的那我們期待觀光署交通部這邊整個行政院能夠大力推動台灣的觀光我們認為台灣的觀光是有條件的 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
19593.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
19618.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
在這邊的時候我想要特別再提到一個部分因為這邊我們講到113年來台的國外的人次是485人次785萬人次比前一年增加21%可是這邊提到的一個數字它比108年還少了33.77%這個數字其實是很驚人的當然當中有碰到疫情的一個情況所以我們就看到了目前政府在 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
19618.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
19637.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
吸引國外旅客來說的時候我覺得感覺有點預證乏力如果再加上 比方說入客這邊遲遲不能進來的時候這個問題我們要如何去突破我們希望行政院這邊有更好的一個狀況那我這邊也再提出一個狀態就是說外國旅客到台灣來消費恢復的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
19638.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
19653.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
就是去年大概只有108年的時候的72.25%這個數字其實完全是不夠的不夠漂亮的然後每日消費金額年增率也只有1.2%完全不及通貨膨脹所以我們針對這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
19656.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
19681.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
本席很關心台灣持續觀光逆差的一個問題那針對外國遊客這邊我們要怎麼樣子來做因為觀光逆差有兩個狀態是因為大家覺得台灣的消費太高所以很多國人都到國外去旅遊然後我們要吸收國外的人進到台灣來的時候感覺好像又沒有那麼有力量那我們要如何來持續改善這個觀光逆差的部分可不可以請院長簡單做個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
19682.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
19710.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
好簡單的報告就是去年我們遭受到0403的地震將我們的天翔太魯閣毀損了那這個在國際的觀光旅遊上面缺少了很大的一個吸引力我們正全力的將這個花蓮地區天翔太魯閣的觀光景點讓它恢復目前也進展是有但是不如預期因為後來又增加了幾次的颱風所以我們一直都要想把長春池這個景點恢復過來到現在都還困難的但我們會持續的努力OK好 謝院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
19711.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
19730.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
我最後這邊的時候我想問一下有關於NCC中天訴訟的問題我想請教一下院長您知不知道說NCC這5年的整體敗訴率陳部長可以先回NCC這5年的整體敗訴率大概是多少% |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
19731.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
19752.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
院長你知不知道多少趴我沒有算但是我知道很多都是因為程序上的問題在訴訟當中各位報告我們包括整體包括中天包括黨政軍媒體這一塊部分大概70度勝訴率大概70多趴跟一般機關比較起來屬於中前半段 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
19754.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
19768.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
整體的 你沒有回答我我說整體的NCC碰到的一個行政訴受的整體敗訴率是多高你提到中天的部分是三成這是我本來下一個要問的整體NCC的敗訴率是多高 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
19769.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
19787.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
大概就兩成多一點兩成多一點的部分我提到一個就是我們最高行政法院他們提出了一個數字整體行政部門的敗訴率大概在兩成左右所以NCC明顯偏高中天愛明顯又更高所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
19788.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
19804.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
各位請院長指示我們NCC部門把接下來NCC這邊敗訴的所有的理由整理一個清單送到本辦公室我們要好好來瞭解一下為什麼NCC的敗訴率特別的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
19822.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
19847.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
好 謝謝鄭振前委員的質詢謝謝卓院長各相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝部院會本日排定質詢的委員已經詢答完畢我們謝謝卓院長各相關列席的部會首長也要謝謝林沛翔委員 黃建斌委員陪同我們一起參與今天的質詢我們先來做以下決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
19848.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
19849.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
下次會議繼續進行交通組織諮詢現在散會 |