| IVOD_ID |
170448 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170448 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-14T16:54:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-14T17:05:37+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad2906fa72ef9199119160c01a7a66d6684f067b6a62f29a68c32e327bd70027aa0c9bef82072cda5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪孟楷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:54:20 - 17:05:37 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員洪孟楷、楊瓊瓔、王鴻薇、蘇清泉、林德福、廖偉翔、黃健豪、陳玉珍等52人擬具公民投票提案主文為：「您是否同意政府制定法律，針對性侵害犯罪、凌虐幼童罪、以及高額詐欺罪、複合型態加重詐欺罪，增設由法院宣告並依法執行之特別刑法制度（鞭刑），以嚇阻犯罪持續發生？」請公決案等6案。二、行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席提出中聯油脂大豆沙拉油事件及食安監管機制缺失檢討專案報告並備質詢。（7月14日下午）三、7月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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主席謝謝主席謝謝,麻煩請卓榮泰院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.582 |
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好 院長好食安重於一切 食安就是國安所以我想先在開宗明義來先強調這一次那衛福部長也可以請上來這一次四月到六月的一個郵品中聯的一個郵品其實確實在六月三十號中央才接獲到通報但是在這段時間裡面我們的主動查核機制到底在哪邊因為本席先說部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
56.451 |
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69.461 |
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通編你的報告這次現在我們確認是說29批4月到6月29批的有問題的有品全部5批是有問題的那都是由業者通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.035 |
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89.356 |
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你的報告裡面全都是業者通報不是我們主動稽查丟出來這五批有問題的油品那當然最重要的部分中聯在一開始他第一次講是說他有問題的油品之後他們自己的態度是什麼中聯的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
90.762 |
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118.684 |
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中聯最早他應該接受到這個因為你現在有講他的數值有超過是6月11號他的數值有造假那造假的範圍到底有多廣應該是這麼講就是說我們到他的這個工廠場區呢把他過去每一批出貨都會有一個存留樣本我們把他的存留樣本那些樣本有沒有問題那些樣本有沒有問題就是因為我們驗出來 |
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120.293 |
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140.261 |
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是符合標準可是下游的產品驗出來我們也有驗是超標所以我們才會高度的懷疑要嘛就是它的抽樣過程有問題不然就是樣本本身是一個問題但部長你現在講是我們驗出來它的樣本有下游驗出來有問題是什麼時候的事就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
141.221 |
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152.213 |
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一方面我們是去把他這個廠區裡面有的一方面呢我們也去收了下游的他出貨之後他給了胡麻因為我們陸陸續續的檢驗才回來今天已經是行政院長食安報告照理講你的報告裡面這一段是沒有寫到的 |
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162.95 |
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189.504 |
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因為他散出去有52批的中油還有現在有300多件我們先focus啦我第一開宗明義我還是先譴責啦我覺得中聯的問題真的是非常嚴重非常惡劣為什麼看一下他6月30號被爆出第一批的時候他的一個致歉公開信他的聲明稿怎麼寫本席再回去看兩個禮拜前他的聲明稿的時候我發覺這家公司是大有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
190.814 |
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201.585 |
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他居然講是說除了上次異常批次也就是所謂的4月4號這一批1300噸以外你看他怎麼寫其他批次檢驗數據皆符合法規規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
204.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
223.372 |
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其他批次皆符合法律規範但我們現在查出來至少有異常的有幾批五批除了這一批所以他已經被爆出來四月四號的時候他的聲明稿都還可以講說其他批次是符合法律規範是不是更加最大惡極已經被倆包了 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
224.873 |
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247.362 |
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還大言不慚講說發政社聲明稿我想這個聲明稿好像大家已經忘記了但是沒有啊今天我們要追責就要追究責任也因此我想先確認一下既然我們現在已經確認了數據有造假不是一批是五批二十九批裡面還會不會有其他批不知道院長已經指示了一個禮拜內要全部都查清嘛我剛剛在口頭報告書面沒有我有加上這一段來 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
248.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
272.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那請教為什麼現在我們確定的是菁英者造假金手者造假研究人造假還是上下交傷賊這個有確定嗎這個只能由檢調去介入我們現在先確保那為什麼我們現在看到檢調這當然沒有要干預個案可是我們看到檢調是這些人全部都交保請回那不會有串證的嫌疑嗎那是法院交保 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
273.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
302.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那不會有串證 而且法院交保的時候是不是還不知道有5批法院交保的時候是不是部長也講說還不知道說有數據造假不符合那過去這幾天又過去了我們檢調的動作在哪裡在跟委員報告齁 那個這部分是那個中聯的中聯的那個總經理他是有生壓的喔喔 他是用串證不是兩千萬交保了嗎那是法院交保的所以這部分我們抗告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
303.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
331.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
抗告 所以他現在人呢現在當然是交保出去 現在抗告那是法院交保 不是檢管交保交保不是嗎 是申請交保沒錯 所以我現在我們認為要不要我們部長 我是說要給他那個部長 那個時候是不是還不知道說食藥署還不知道衛福部有告訴我們說是數據造假的部分那現在有沒有篡證 現在有沒有勾結起來讓檢調有新的資訊 趕快再去提那是被抗告 我們要抗告嘛那時候我們希望法院能夠支持嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
331.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
357.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
支持能夠測銷原財電不要這時候還讓國人認為是說我們是讓他們上下交相責尤其是為什麼這個問題相對重要是因為過去大家不知道是說有可能有數據造假的疑問是在這個禮拜你才親口講出來的而且過去只有一批五批這個不知道那這部分因為那個所以隱匿來國際的情報又很多的一些的大家來調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
361.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
377.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
隱匿的部分後續有相關刑責如果說最重的話他可以判到多重除了罰環還有沒有刑責他那個這部分那個數據教材就是違照文書嘛違照文書那個是五年以下沒有重大食安相關的法重大食安是七年以下嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
378.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
383.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以我們現在檢方是用什麼樣的罪來去做起訴 還是說什麼樣的罪來去做偵辦這是一個違照數據 這是違照文書的一個問題所以現在還只是違照文書嗎那還有那個違反食安法的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
423.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以其實本席今天提出來本席今天提出來是想要提醒我們法務部所以本席今天提出來是想要提醒我們法務部這不我們是造假的事件部長現在源頭有沒有查出來到底致癌物是什麼怎麼會產生這批致癌物超標的就是本便皮就是BAP這個東西那這個東西它可能在原料或者製成因為現在確認了沒那因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
425.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
440.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
他的黃豆的部分沒有全部我們都他都存留這個樣本但是我們抽的他還存留的黃豆黃豆我們現在驗出來是符合標準就是原料可是有些原料已經用完了 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
440.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
467.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我剛剛有兩句話說原料黃豆是一樣的每一批號有的超標有的不超標是不是製程上面有問題這個當然要檢調兩個禮拜後還沒有辦法確認我來確認一下來這個是第二張他都可以刻意隱匿的他當然不會講實話他不會講實話說我們要有科學方法找出源頭嘛現在已經兩個禮拜過去還沒有辦法找出源頭那我們更想問的是只有四月到六月嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
468.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
496.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
一月到三月有沒有可能也有債務只是我們不知道有沒有這個可能性我們把它的樣本也都留下來了就是更往前所以有這個可能性所以我們也會驗但是就是說如果它四到六月的樣本是有問題那前面的樣本有沒有問題我們也是打一個問號打一個問號也都把它扣起來再驗所以這一個風波可能更大來 那再請教部長 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
497.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
520.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
你的簡報裡面有提到說要集體訴訟我們要針對這個部分要來提說相關的團體訴訟跟重寬退貨好那我想確認一下因為這本席昨天也很關心就是說全國國人可能都已經吃到這有毒的毒油那還有另外一點更重要的是國小國中幼兒園的相關學童他們有可能也吃到 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
521.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
537.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那這可能會更好追查 為什麼因為你已經預防性下架但本席現在更要問的是我們已經確定了5000多公噸的有毒油有多少被血統吃下肚因為回收的只有1641公噸那其他可能都做成製品 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
539.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
558.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
不對 院長你沒有回答到本席的問題回收一千多公噸是29批裡面的兩萬七千公噸但是有問題是五千多公噸那我想問的是你現在預防性下架但是過去這三個月至少四月到六月有多少被學童吃下肚到目前有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
558.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
576.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
可能流入市面的部分流入市面跟流入市面你的營養午餐跟營養午餐我們營養午餐都有營養午餐的這個登錄所以說其實你要查很好查哪一批號有問題有進入到校園裡面這絕對可以查出來啊每個學校都有資料來多少謝謝委員關心確實這是應該要譴責的來多少基隆市為例基隆市 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
584.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
607.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
調查有11所學校讓委員讓我有一點時間講因為部長我只有剩40秒我只想問說現在有多少多少毒油被學童吃下肚有沒有這個數字基隆市為例因為全台22縣市你還在以基隆為例是什麼意思我要跟委員報告就是因為基隆市團上11所學校裡邊它有4所是屬於團上同時這個團上報院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
611.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
631.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
兩個禮拜了 你的食安報告你可以接受這樣的一個數字嗎到目前為止還不知道全台灣到底有多少學童吃到毒油院長 你會不會跟我一樣我們實在話講 我這個真的撇開黨派你會不會跟我一樣也希望了解這樣的真相進一步未來可以代位求償 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
649.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
667.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好謝謝再請行政院議書面答覆請書面答覆好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
676.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
677.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
謝謝洪委員,謝謝卓院長 |