| IVOD_ID |
17044 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17044 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-18T09:03:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-18T10:50:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:46:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/6bde2531bcbaf77a612f51c1280cff9009c44ec1d8eb22a2914d0d15f34b2c02f56bb0ef1e6ae23b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-18T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第9次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院民進黨黨團，針對第11屆第1會期第9次會議報告事項第33案委員丁學忠等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」院會所作之決定提出復議。是否有當？請公決案等16案。二、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、行政院公共工程委員會主任委員及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖災後重建特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（11月18日上午）。三、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（11月18日下午）。四、11月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:03:30 - 10:50:00 |
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卓院長各位列席閣議員早安報告委員會我們現在繼續開會進行中央政府花蓮馬太安菸塞湖災後重建特別預算案編制經過並備諮詢請行政院卓院長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
101.892 |
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117.771 |
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韓院長 江副院長各位委員先進今天行政院應邀自大院進行中央政府花蓮 馬太安溪 堰舍湖災後重建特別條例的特別預算進行報告並備諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
119.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
139.654 |
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大院在今年10月31日 三讀了通過《花蓮馬太安溪驗射服災後重建特別條例》作為後續推動災後重建的重要法源依據行政院依據特別條例編列完成本特別預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
140.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
154.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
並且在11月13日送請大院審議以下緊究災害重建工作以及特別條例特別預算案編制的概況做重點的說明今年9月23日 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
156.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
181.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
受到華家沙颱風外圍環流影響花蓮馬太安溪堰塞湖上游堰塞湖嚴重發生災情龐大的洪流跟土石流瞬間傾瀉短時間內衝毀了馬太安溪橋衝破了馬太安溪南岸的堤防並灌入了市區導致下游光復箱多處受到洪水的淹沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
183.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
209.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
房屋幾乎多數遭到湮滅釀成多人的傷亡也造成民宅 商家 道路 橋樑以及水利設施 公共設施等嚴重的毀損大規模的農田被埋沒以及農牧業損失慘重嚴重衝擊民眾的生活跟民生的經濟在災害發生期間 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
210.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
231.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
中央地方及民間團體積極地動員投入各項人力物資機具進行救災工作社會各界也踴躍地捐款贈災眾多民間志工也自動自發投入災區協助居民復原家園展現台灣堅韌的社會韌性與團結的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
236.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
262.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
政府為了及時協助受災的災民以重塑重減的原則提供衛助金申請以及災後協助服務同時啟動了一站式服務平台整合多項中央資源的措施包括有家園復原衛助短期安置 租屋補貼農教救助以及健保補助和就業支持等項 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
263.581 |
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289.775 |
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由於本次的災情嚴重依照現行災害防救法辦理災後復原所需經費已有所不足行政院為了最快而有效率的最直接的方式擴大資源的投入原來是提出了丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建特別條例修正草案以總經費增加250億元辦理追加特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
290.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
308.136 |
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但經過朝野協商大院三讀通過花蓮馬太安溪驗射湖災後重建特別條例所需經費上限300億元行政院並拒以提出特別預算案使各級政府能夠全面展開復原重建的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
309.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
326.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
行政院本於確實合理以及符合救災與復建需要的原則因應鳳凰颱風導致了後續鳳林萬榮等地持續發生災害在本條例災區範圍中所治災的各項情形也相符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
328.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
346.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
經統整相關機關經費需求後除了預留後續額度30億元暫時未納編之外依特別條例規定編制完成本特別預算案稅出共編270億元實施日程自今年11月11日至116年3月13日 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
350.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
355.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
至於馬太安溪驗射壺整治後續處理等部分項目的辦理則至119年底為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
358.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
384.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
其中經濟部編列了91億元交通部編列44億元農業部編列43億元環境部編列42億元內政部編列28億元原住民族委員會編列5億元行政院公共工程委員會編列1億元衛福部編列1億元令編列預備金15億元所需財源全數以舉債指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
386.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
404.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
此次災情嚴重衝擊光復箱等地為推動整體災後復原重建工作本特別預算案的規模規劃了辦理災區復原重建項目共計有10項包括馬太安溪艷澀湖整治相關工程14億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
406.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
430.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
農業復原27億元電力系統3億元自來水瓦斯及燃氣設施1億元家園及公共設施10億元水利設施99億元道路及交通47億元環境衛生復原42億元社會復原及產業促進10億元其他重建統籌協調業務2億元並編列預備金15億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
435.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
450.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
以上僅就本特別預算案的編制重點概要說明有關特別預算案的編制經過及內容由陳主席長再做報告裁員籌措部分由財政部莊部長做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
451.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
470.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
更請大院委員全力的支持早日通過本特別預算案全力協助災民重建家園修復基礎設施並復甦生活生產活動讓民眾生活緊速地重回常軌以上報告 請大院支持 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
476.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
479.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
謝謝主委長的報告接下來我們請主計處陳主席長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
493.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
514.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
韓院長 江戶院長各位委員先進 大家好中央政府花蓮馬太安溪驗賽府災後重建特別預算案編列概況及主要重點周院長以予以說明以下緊究特別預算案的編制經過和內容概要進一步提出報告本次花蓮馬太安溪 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
515.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
531.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
西堰澀湖災後復原重建工作所需要的經費均考量實際救災和復建所需並應應鳳凰颱風在馬太安堰塞湖這個條例範圍災區範圍內所致的災損情形統整相關經費需求後 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
536.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
548.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
除預留後續額度30億元站位編列外區域都依特別條例規定完成本特別預算案總經費270億元實施期程從114年11月1號到116年3月31但因為馬太安驗社府整治後續處理部分則辦理至119年度9年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
562.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
580.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
114年11月3號送請貴會審議主要內容如下第一個說出編列270億元在機關別方面經濟部主管編列91億元主要是辦理馬太安溪及花蓮溪水系系統性治理等 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
581.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
608.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
二 交通部主管編列44億元主要辦理台九縣 馬太岸溪橋搶修及復建工程等三 農業部主管編列43億元主要去辦理馬太岸溪岩澀湖監測及應變及土砂防治相關工程等四 環境部主管編列42億元主要是補助地方政府辦理災後砂土混雜廢棄物分類去化等 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
608.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
629.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
五 內政部主管編列28億元主要是補助地方政府辦理受災地區雨水下水道和霧水下水道的清淤搶修強化下水道系統等六 原住民委員會編列5億元主要是撥補原住民組綜合發展基金辦理受災區危險經濟活動貸款等 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
630.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
656.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
七 行政院公共工程委員會編列1億元系辦理災後重建統籌協調業務手續經費八 衛生福利部主管編列1億元是補助關戶箱醫事服務機構辦理建築物災後復建及醫療儀器設備災損護員等九 預備金編列15億元那正式別部分經濟發財支出編列192億元居所 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
658.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
666.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
占71.4 二 社區發展及環境保護支出56億元次之占20.7 預備金15億元占5.6 一般政務支出6億元占稅數總額2.2% 社會福利支出占0.1% |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
677.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
703.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那以上稅出所需要的財源270億元全數已舉借債務支應以上特別預算案是為協助災民重建家園修復基礎設施並復甦生產活動讓民眾生活盡速回歸常軌敬請各位委員女士先生會議指教並鼎力支持以上謝謝謝謝陳主席長的報告接下來我們請財政部莊部長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
717.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
745.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
主席 各位委員先進 大家好請就有關馬太安特別預算案的收入編列情形做報告首先是有關裁員的規劃根據馬太安特別條例的規定第七條它有這樣的規定經費的上限是新台幣300億元那麼是以特別預算的方式來編列經費的來源得以移用以前年度的稅基剩餘或舉借債務來支應 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
746.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
761.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
本市馬太安特別預算案我們編列的是270億元其餘的30億元是供後續市實際的需求再行編列實行期間是從114年度起到119年度分6年來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
762.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
783.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
裁員的規劃全數是以舉借債務來做支應那麼在債務控管的部分根據馬太安特別條例的規定每年度的債務舉借數不受公債法第五條第七項規定的限制但必須管控本條例的施行期間中央政府總預算及特別預算舉債額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
785.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
804.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
合计数不能超过该期间总预算及特别预算的税出总额合计数的15%而且中央政府所举借的长期债务余额的预算数必须要符合公债法第五条第一项的规定不能超过前三年度明目GDP平均数的40.6% |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
807.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
816.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
考量馬太安特別條例從114年度推動執行並繼114年度中央政府總預算以及前瞻基礎建設計畫新式戰機採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
820.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
842.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
海空戰力提升計畫的採購還有疫後強化經濟社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果以及丹納斯颱風及728豪雨災後復原重建還有因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性以及馬太安等特別預算舉借的合計數佔該期間稅出預算總額合計數是8.1% |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
847.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
861.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
低於15%規定的上限那麼截至114年10月底中央政府長期債務餘額的實際數是5兆8379億元佔前三年度明目GDP的平均數是24.3%那麼至於114年底的長期債務餘額的預算數 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
868.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
891.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是根据公债法第五条的规定按照113年底中央政府长期债务余额实际数的5兆8580亿元连同历年特别预算融资调度的保留数2910亿元再加上114年度预计要债务举借数在扣除我们的债务偿还数以后 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
891.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
916.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
所預估的114年底中央政府長期債務餘額為6,5809億元佔前三年度明目GDP的平均數是27.4%那麼距離公債法所規定的債務存量上限40.6%那麼有13.2%的空間那麼以上的報告敬請各位委員會議支持以及指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
921.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
924.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
謝謝莊部長的報告接下來我們請公共工程委員會陳主任委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
931.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
959.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
主席 各位委員 先請大家早為因應花家沙風災所造成的花蓮縣馬太安溪縣社府的災害行政院在第一時間成立了花蓮馬太安溪縣社府災害前進協調所全力應變救災那麼也在光復鄉成立一站式服務及時協助發放衛助金以及相關證件的補發當救災應變告一段落之後那麼為了使災區 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
961.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
983.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
復原重建工作能夠順利銜接那麼主委院長再度指示前進協調所轉型為馬太安溪映射湖災後復原重建中央協調匯報並由公共工程委員會擔任幕僚機關負責統合管考相關計畫執行及工作進度以下緊究協調匯報工作重點及便利算做重點說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
985.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1001.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
為加速災害復原重建專員協調匯報定期開會整合跨部會資源規劃執行專案並採功能分組來推動本會設置9個功能分組分別是驗射壺處置組 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1003.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1016.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
農業復建組 交通橋樑組 堤防復建及河川輸進組環境及公共設施復原組 協助收容安置組家園復建組 校園重建組 產業及觀光 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1018.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1043.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
振興組等分頭併進加速推動目前映射湖壩體高約200公尺體積約2億立方米水位雖然下降但溢流口邊坡不穩定有潛在再次阻塞的風險農業部和國科會合作持續監測分析殘餘壩體的穩定性模擬極端風險提供防災策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1044.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1064.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那麼預計從光復林道19K處那麼要開設這個搶災便道長13公里 工作天200天預算金額9500萬元那麼也在水利署也擴大深潮堆置太空包 設置島溝 並推動欄案 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1068.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1087.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
這個提防為100年防洪標準的高規格提防以及第二道防線寬200公尺長約2公里的防洪設施明年防汛期前要來加固及開口提防封閉 預算200億元那麼同時在北岸 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1088.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1113.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
堤防也要往上游延伸到明麗村積極辦理輸菌那麼同時加高阿陶墨部落聚落的堤防那麼施作五條野溪的溪貝水堤明年訓期前要完成那麼長期治理培後北附二三四段堤防延伸北岸堤防到萬榮鄉明麗村提升陳洪的韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1115.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1130.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那輸進部分呢 中游由農業部來負責 編列5.6億元那麼在119年6月前完成下游由水利署編列37億元119年6月完成明年汛期前輸進600萬立方公尺台九縣馬太安溪橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1139.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1158.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
在114年10月9日完成函館便道但遭鳳房颱風破壞11月15日進場搶修 預計25日前搶通那麼要續建500公尺的鋼便橋在明年農曆春節前會完工那麼永久橋 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1160.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1169.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
預計在116年全強來完成 預算35億元本次災害淹沒的農田面積達773.9公頃也分為一般受災期528公頃重災期245公頃 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1178.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1191.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那麼一般受災區 經土壤專家調查土砂沒有汙染 有積值低透過翻耕改良 可以協助農民來進速復耕重災區的部分 要以農民最有力 農業最勇氣為原則委託專業團隊來調查規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1195.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1211.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
充分與農民溝通並洽部會確認公用需求研擬整體方案搭配購地造林提升防災韌性農業部編列27.46億元要來辦理購地造林農民補救等措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1212.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1227.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
同時內政部也編列了3.02億元用於中紀屋的規劃興建首批以89戶重災戶為主要照顧對象規劃整修台塘公司既有的宿舍有11戶以及租借台塘土地1.5公頃 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1229.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1254.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
新建組合屋30戶預計114年12月底完工提供41戶入住後續將是災民終據需求滾動擴充設置另外關戶鄉排水主社內政部也編列3.5億元清淤修繕也同時編列10億元建置聚酪型污水處理系統本次一流四期沙土 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1256.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1274.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
廢棄物達100萬公噸環境部委託廠商現場乾燥分篩分出廢棄物與沙土沙土將協調機關去化也組備標設中心預算編列42億元那麼同時為了幫助原住民部落重建家園 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1275.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1286.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
原民會負責居會所及公共設施的復建協調部落確認中繼屋的需求啟動諮商衛助配合內政部、衛福部提供社福長照轉介 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1289.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1308.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
編經費營造部落風貌綜合發展融資觀光促進農林地復原救資預算4.68億元行政院透過中央協調匯報整合資源用特別預算強化流域治理確保進度品質效率願景是全面提升光護箱的成紅能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1309.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1338.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
和土砂防治任性打造更安全更永續的生活環境讓關烏鄉成為安心有任性的家園以上補充報告敬請大院支持謝謝陳主任委員的報告謝謝報告委員會我們現在進行委員諮詢每位委員詢答時間不得超過15分鐘我們到諮詢委員如果不在場適同放棄我們首先請林益君委員諮詢陳培宇委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1364.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1367.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
謝謝主席有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢林委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1381.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1403.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
主委長辛苦了這一次花蓮光復鄉的災情其實本席除了要感謝來自全國的整個產值超人在大愛的協助下還有這些還有院長還有所有辛苦人救災協助復原的公務員們說聲辛苦了畢竟所有人都不希望有發生任何災害的 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1403.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1415.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
面對今年的嘉南地區和花東的颱風豪雨現在馬太安溪的艷澀湖的災情不管是我們大家在爭執的潰堤還是潰壩8月26號的時候針對丹尼斯颱風的災害重建的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1422.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1447.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
本席也是站在這裡有詢問院長說我們花蓮鄉親非常的憂心一旦艷澀湖發生潰堤的時候造成大規模土石流的衝擊下游的鄉鎮會造成嚴重的人民和財產損失要怎麼辦呢但院長你就說本席嚴重了嘛所以農業部長也信誓旦旦的說不會發生這種事情的結果本席果然是說中了 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1448.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1477.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
說令人最遺憾的不幸的災難也是發生了那這次馬太安溪夜色湖的潰堤的悲劇就是給政府一個很大的警惕所以我是希望針對這一次的一流的潰壩造成的災情拜託讓我們全民看到政府真正的為人民的用心和決心所以還是希望中央和地方都可以同心救災不分離我畢竟災後重建的工作是不只單靠志工還有地方政府的力量因此本市在進入 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1477.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1493.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
這個主題之前還是要特別拜託院長去年花蓮發生了0403大地震這次的災情也希望能給我們花蓮全力的支持和協助一起為花蓮這次的災情合力面對後續的重建工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1494.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1520.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這是當然的謝謝委員的提醒當時在經過委員提醒是之前農業部也是在監控我們在九月中的時候也在行政院正式針對堰舍湖這個馬太堰舍湖開過一次的政務會議來討論我想種種都表示從農業部的監控委員的提醒跟我們的動作都希望這個災害不要發生所以在發生的當時我們就用第一時間設置了前進協調所 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1521.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1536.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
由前後任的總協調官再加上現在的復員工作我們的一次性的一戰式的服務也到場希望能夠把災民所受到的傷害能夠降到最低但也謝謝地方還有各個民意代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1537.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1553.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
台灣整個社會的志工權力的投入而且善款的捐款也相當的大目前已經接近有14億那我們會在最短的時間內將這些所有的善款用到災民的手上直接有效的來協助災民 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1554.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1581.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
這次在花蓮光復協助救災的時候清理家園的時候北溪有走訪一些民間團體在學校設置的兒童關懷中心那邊有安置了許多災民的小朋友們然後面對巨大的災害其實北溪最擔心的就是他們幼小的心靈受到的驚嚇和創傷尤其是看到許多民宅其實都是獨居的長者他們根本無力清理整個家園後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1582.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1607.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
依然還是要依賴整個民間團體和志工們的協助最大的問題就是到現在這些災民天天無法安心的睡覺身心更是受到的壓力和心理的創傷為了不讓花蓮不斷的受到這些天災的影響而受到心理的創傷兒童和老年人的心理關懷這一個問題是非常重要的這常常是最容易被忽略的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1608.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1622.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
所以兒童和老人其實最需要不只是物資他們是需要陪伴還有一些專業上面的支持還有社會更多的關心與愛應該要讓每一個孩子們和年長者都能在災後依然感到安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1623.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1642.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
還有溫暖所以我想請教院長目前災後重建的整個工程中補助還有硬體協助外有沒有特別關心心理創傷還有心理輔導的協助呢尤其是對兒童和老年人的心理然後有沒有相關的關懷還有一些支持的方案呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1643.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1670.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
當然有這個部分我們也非常重視稍等我請石部長來說明不過第一時間我要感謝我們的各級學校對學生跟教職員也發揮了心理的輔導的作用還有我們的志工團體的投入宗教團體的投入以及在地的幾個教會我想第一時間都充分發揮這樣安撫人心的工作我特別與致謝我們在整個復健的工作當中這個心理輔導方面請石部長來答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1671.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1691.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
謝謝委員的關心我們在這次事件之後啟動了兩個心理復原重建的計畫一個是用我們的公務預算補助了花蓮縣衛生局600萬然後去安排每一個在地的醫療院所都去認養一個受災的村裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1692.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1719.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
然後一對每一個動員起來到每一個受災的村裡去做這是第一個第二個在民間的部分我們用震災基金會這一次所得到的專款那麼撥出一千萬那麼補助民間的像世界展望會像文建站長照據點那個是分零分眾剛剛是醫療院所去做的是村裡的認養 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1721.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1746.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那後面這個是透過這個展望會啊或他們一間團體的組織分齡分眾裡面特別重視兒童跟老人特別是獨居長者所以這個我們都已經納入了那為期一年那麼會辦到明年九月好 謝謝報告委員除了災區的這個居民之外我們對於去到災區的志工的心理輔導我們也有這樣的相關措施是不是 佳俊 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1747.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1767.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
再跟委員補充剛剛院長特別關心的因為我們這一次有來自於全國各地的志工所以不見得限縮在花蓮當地所以我們在這個月初又啟動了另外一個就是有諮詢的我們有固定的特約的 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1769.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1783.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
這個院所可以提供有些怕擔心有PTSD這種創傷症候群所以都可以去尋求協助我們有補助所以在我們的網頁都可以查得到這些院所好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1784.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1802.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那這次的災害中還有看到一個就是南部丹納斯的颱風發生的時候還有光復的淹水的災情有發現一些民眾用藥的問題我想要請教一下部長就是說藥品管理的交付的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1804.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1827.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
在捐贈愛心的物資上面那時候馬上都整個湧入災區了除了吃的用的還有這些物品最受法律上規範的就是藥品這個是最令人大家困擾的問題也就是說現在也是應該要檢討的問題請問衛福部部長民眾在捐贈的物資中是否有包含物品 藥品有 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1829.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1835.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我們在這個藥事法的授權辦法有一個藥品 贈品 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1836.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1861.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
樣品贈品的管理辦法那裡面特別有名列的在災害的時候的那個捐贈規定所以是可以接受捐贈那麼我們也有一個窗口那麼就是叫做這個專案製造或輸入的一個審查窗口那未來我們會多強化這個宣傳要捐的時候還是要透過這個窗口因為還是得保障這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
1862.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
1877.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
確保這個藥品本身的合法性跟安全性所以也不能夠直接就捐到這個民眾的手上這個會有安全性因為這次要檢討的就是因為真的是在這一次的災害在第一時間這發生了太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
1878.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
1903.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這樣的問題所以我今天在這邊提出來就是說所以部長你覺得現行對藥品的規定是不是應該就不適合在災區剛才在講的時候我現在特別強調是第一時間不是是第一時間剛發生的時候醫生都還沒有入住之前會有一些志工還是他們的災民他有一些藥品上面的需要或許他都突然受傷了 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
1904.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
1925.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這些問題然後要怎麼處理所以我在想說像還有這一次還有一次當災難發生的時候那個時候有一個就是說統一藥品的捐贈這個捐贈的時候是幫助民眾緊急用藥的主事權在第一時間是為了要救急還有救命的所以衛福部是不是應該制定明確的藥品捐贈 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
1926.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
1939.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
住的整個指引讓災害馬上發生的時候可以統一事權單一窗口立即發布藥品捐助的整個指引而且還有這個可能是不是要做一個宣傳讓大家都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
1940.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
1952.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
跟委員說明其實這一次的多數的災害我們的藥品供應是足夠的啦那只是說怎麼樣在第一刻您關心的是這個災民怎麼拿到藥拿到藥的問題所以倒不是捐贈的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
1956.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
1980.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
倒是說我們怎麼把這個藥送到這個民眾的手裡所以我們的做法上這一次的就有兩種做法一種就是趕快因為醫療院所去帶的藥絕對是合法合規絕對不會有問題就帶進去那第二個呢其實不是足夠的因為第一時間我剛才已經講了第一時間第一時間的時候那個大水已經整個泥沙沖 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
1981.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
2009.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
把那邊光復的藥局全部的藥都沖散了根本沒有藥而且路也斷了這個時候那是第一時間有些民眾是需要用藥的他只有從另外一頭御理那邊過來所以那個時候第一個時間的時候是完全沒有藥那個是只有藥師有時候他可以去提供這些藥是從遠方送過來的那個時候醫生還沒有開始啟動整個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
2010.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
2026.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
這個有另外第二個機制我剛剛提到這次我們也開放遠距所以如果有藥師藥也送進去的透過遠距由醫師處方但是這個都不是第一個時間那時候發生的時候遠距我們很快就啟動應該是未來讓他變成常態化可以解決這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
2028.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
2046.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
就是透過遠距的方式能讓有醫師在遠端交付處方然後再由藥師調劑交付給民眾這個法規上完全OK所以我剛才說的是第一時間可能第一天第二天第三天大家在慌亂的時候但是後面當然也就是說遠距還有這些可能有醫療所還是醫療團隊進駐的時候我覺得都OK這個都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
2051.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
2072.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
照這樣的執行但是在第一時間的時候什麼都沒有的時候那個時候其實很多災民他是需要用藥的所以我在想說我可能建議衛福部是不是第一個要先研擬藥品的捐助指引因為有些藥品大家捐助來的時候都是處方用藥藥師如果當場在的時候也不敢發 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
2073.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
2100.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
因為處方用藥要經過醫生才可以處方開出來才可以可是全台灣的人大家其實大家都是出於善心怕那邊沒有藥所以就捐助了很多藥到時候那時候完全不能用所以整個造成了藥物上面的浪費所以是不是要在研擬藥品捐助指引然後第二件事情是不是災害發生第一時間內災民的緊急用藥需求是不是要開放授權給藥師 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
2102.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
2119.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
因為那個醫生大家都要上班啊然後藥師社區要覺得藥師可以出來幫忙我在這次看到很多愛心的藥師都產值藥是這樣都全部馬上第一時間就過去幫忙了但是因為很多規範都把藥師限制住了 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
2120.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
2135.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
是不是部長你是不是要開放一些在緊急事件的授權給藥師呢處方用藥就是因為有他的一定的風險所以他才需要有醫師的處方然後來藥師做確認最好這是雙重所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
2136.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
2151.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
處方藥跟OTC也就是指示藥是不一樣如果指示藥的盤藥師可以直接提供但是處方藥不論在何時處方用藥很多都是安全無虞的還沒有轉類成指示用藥 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
2153.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
2177.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
這個就是現在最大的問題目前的處方用藥一定要有一絲的處方那我們可以去強化我想你上任之後你是對改革是非常需要改革就是我覺得你改革之前做的也很好所以這件事情我覺得你可能還是要回去討論一下就是現在太多處方用藥了都造成那個都很安全的整個都限制在醫生處方才可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
2178.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
2187.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以我覺得這是不對的而且還有要開始提倡就是為什麼健保現在都虧損就是全部都綁在醫院裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
2189.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
2213.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
應該就是要讓大家小小病自我要療那些非常安全無疑的藥早就要轉成只是用藥了就病患到藥局去讓藥師來餵叫他們那就好了啊為什麼全部都還要去造成醫療上面的浪費我覺得這部分你上任之後我覺得可能是整個要開始整個做演藝還有整個看要什麼有相關的配套要處理喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
2215.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
2232.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
謝謝委員的指教這個關於這個轉類的問題就是處方用藥哪一些那麼可以變成這個OTC的指示用藥我們有一個機制會持續的來討論我看這個再請部長費心了現在我再來講一個就是說因為時間不多了我先講 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
2232.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
2238.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
大概因為我這次有到宜蘭去看到這個水災的問題所以院長因為今天是風災我看到宜蘭有一些問題所以讓我簡單的詢問三個問題災民反應的第一個就是說宜蘭這一次好雨之後院長是不是可以比照0726好雨的部長南部的地區的補助加碼2萬塊救助金給宜蘭的鄉親 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
2257.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
2285.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
因為他們那邊真的是損失也是很慘重的還有第二個事情是針對在你們的所轄的災基金會這部分是不是針對低收入戶還有中低收入戶的家庭眼裡提高補助的額度呢放寬整個淹水的救助標準每戶再增列一萬元讓這些受災最重還有經濟最弱的弱勢的家庭能夠多一點資助好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
2296.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
2313.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
好謝謝好謝謝林一軍委員質詢謝謝主委長相關部會首長備詢謝謝謝謝現在在議場二樓旁邊的來自亞東科技大學長庚科技大學明智科技大學三所大學的同學我們掌聲歡迎 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
2317.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
2335.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
接下來我們請陳培宇委員質詢富坤齊委員 林倩齊委員請準備好 謝謝院長那有請卓院長 謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢陳委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
2346.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
2361.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
好 院長早院長我們今天這個條例叫馬太安溪顏色湖災後重建特別預算既然叫做特別預算我其實關鍵想要先問一問預算尤其是財化法的困境院長我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
2361.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
2382.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
很遺憾上個禮拜五在立法院三讀通過那主要這個在野黨委員提案的版本我必須說非常的遺憾因為就直接淨附二讀沒有交付協商沒有交付在委員會實質討論而且這個通過才化法我認為更加荒謬的是什麼呢原本呢離島的立委們也就是陳雪生跟陳玉珍他們一直說計算公式有誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
2383.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
2412.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以導致該分配給他們的沒有分配所以甚至進到委員會進行實質協商可是很荒謬的是到了禮拜五國民黨團竟然提出來要針對一般性補助款要求行政院要再加碼再加碼加碼再加碼加到我都已經很想問他說你到底為什麼認為行政院會這麼有錢呢如果用一個最簡單的算盤來算一算行政院今年為了協助台灣各地的災變包含丹納斯包含馬太安西還包含這一次非洲竹蚊 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
2412.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
2441.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我認為行政院在特別預算已經花了很多很多錢而回到財化法它是一個長年要實質好好運作中央跟地方必須要分工分錢講清楚但很可惜在野黨通過我不想代替在野黨委員跟行政院道歉但我認為在野黨委員應該要跟全國人民道歉所以雖然今天的主題是馬太安西但是我還是要拜託院長可不可以花一點時間讓我們知道假設這個財化法執意的這樣通行下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
2442.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
2451.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
甚至搞不好這個禮拜五他們還會針對離島那個部分再來要錢要錢再要錢加碼再加碼掏空再掏空到底會發生什麼事情院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
2452.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
2476.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
好 謝謝委員雖然特別預算基本上不受公債法第五條種種的規定跟債務的額度是可以脫離的但是每一筆特別預算不是用我們的稅計剩餘到時候去舉債那我們把稅計剩餘全部用完之後未來每一筆的特別預算它都是會擴大國家政府的舉債 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
2478.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
2505.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
以明年的中央政府總預算三兆零三百五十億來看我們已經舉債了三千億我們已經舉債了三千億如果按照上週立法院所通過的我們黨版的財政收支發分法我們必須在計劃型補助裡面再多增加舉債兩千六百億換句話說我們如果完全接受這樣一個修法的話明年的中央政府總預算會舉債五千六百億 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
2506.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
2533.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個已經超出違反了公債法第五條的規定所以我跟委員報告行政院編不出來這樣的預算無法編列不得違法編列無法執行這個通過的國民黨黨版的財政收支劃分法好 院長我非常認同你的說法但是我很好奇院長你有沒有想過國民黨或是民眾黨團接下來會對行政院做出什麼樣的事情我們難以想像對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
2535.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
2560.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我曾經想過我怕他們不做午夜夢回的時候我真的想不出來國民黨團或是民眾黨團會在做什麼事情而且我剛已經提醒院長囉還有那個原本離島的要分的345億這件事情也還沒有搞定喔所以我真的不知道而且我當然希望台灣是一個風調雨順的地方可是天災難免對嗎好像這一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
2560.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
2588.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我剛說今年就這三大天災人禍包含台中非洲豬瘟這個部分我都認為當地方第一時間沒有辦法把事情做好而中央非常勇於任事的把事情攬到自己身上然後還派不同的政委然後各個部會的部長幾乎都要協同溝通然後同時支援第一線還要負責中央的業務但是我們卻看到不斷的把錢要掏出去給地方這真的真的非常不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
2588.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
2617.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那行政院後續會有什麼救濟的手段嗎針對我剛剛說過這樣一個違反公債法的修正案我們無法照這個內容來編列所以我很希望我們禮拜四行政院院會會通過行政院院版的財政收支劃分法那裡面有五項原則這五項原則第一個就是會讓國人的生活品質更均衡第二個會讓垂直的劃分更合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
2618.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
2642.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
第三個 會讓水平的分配更公平第四個 會讓地方自主更強化第五個 會讓中央地方夥伴關係更提升我們用這五個原則定定了未來的財政收入發分法我希望禮拜四行政院通過的這個財政收入發分法送到大院來的時候能夠大家審慎來看這個內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
2644.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
2668.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
如果未來這個院版的財政授權發分法能夠讓地方更均衡不再有那種特別優異的把所有財政弱的縣市都能提升上來我希望大家共同來接受如果未來的這個財政授權法能讓中央地方的垂直的地方市權 中央市權的劃分更為明確中央做中央的 地方做地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
2669.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
2696.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
前中央該補助的就指定補助該提出計畫的就按照計畫該設算的就按照設算那這個財政收支發放法才是長治久安之道我希望立法院能夠審慎的來看這個財政收支法院版的財政收支發放法我非常認同剛剛院長說的五個原則我想我身為一個在立法院的立法委員我也要公開喊話再次喊話喊院長院長錯誤就留在立法院吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
2698.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
2723.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
禮拜四行政院會就要送過最新的才化法我認為大家真的可以坐下來討論因為連侯友宜新北市長都公開的說錢跟權要講清楚大家才可以好好做事如果連侯友宜都站出來呼籲我認為有更多的國民黨當地的黨工職應該也可以認同這個說法那當然我們現在看到各個地方都會開始使出一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
2724.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
2750.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
較窮的手段一副要壓榨勤勒行政院一樣就像昨天基隆市長說欠房子 欠房子都要回去了這個也非常的荒謬因為實質上新版的財化法通過之後各個縣市拿到的錢都只會更多 更多 再更多如果再把禮拜五通過的一般補助款再加上去基隆這個案例絕對不會欠房子欠房子都要回去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
2752.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
2778.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
以基隆為例台北新北都是如此更何況有非常多財政困難的縣市如我熟悉的花蓮其實錢也會多非常非常多再加上這個今天本來要討論300億其實很多花蓮當地的議員也都在提醒這麼多的預算我們花蓮縣政府真的有能力執行嗎所以我認為這後續有這麼多錢會不會反而我們本來以為要解決問題但其實是製造更多的問題所以我要公開呼籲拜託韓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
2779.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
2804.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
也要拜託在野黨黨團禮拜四行政院的版本送出來之後我真的認為我們應該要坐下來好好討論但是要謝謝院長您任重道遠我們立法院這邊會一起努力兩個問題跟委員答覆第一個我上禮拜在這個地方已經說過總諮詢結束的前後我會拜訪韓院長去談財化法的內容但上週五卻用這種火速而且淨富惡毒的方式來通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
2805.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
2810.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
不讓韓院長跟我有任何談話的機會我想這個是天大的遺憾第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
2812.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
2835.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
院版的裁判法跟保證未來對地方的協助在統籌分配稅款以及一般型補助甚至加上未來的計劃型補助絕對會比現在多這就是我們的設算這個設算才是公平的只要我們有機會有時間把這個跟地方也談過我們充分討論的案子能夠送出來的話應該會得到大家的支持才對 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
2836.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
2863.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
院長我們再抓一個重點你剛說如果我們可以坐下來好好跟地方討論過應該就是一個可以實行的版本目前為止到底我們跟地方開了多少的會地方的主計應該都知道發生了什麼事情可是我很好奇為什麼他們的老闆各個縣市首長包含蔣萬安包含謝國良都出來挨叫難道他們的主計都沒有回去跟他們的市長報告嗎還是說行政院這邊在跟他們各地的主計討論的時候其實有遇到一些實質的困難目前的進度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
2863.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
2880.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
包括今天下午這一場我所知道的至少有六場那詳細的部分是不是請莊部長來說明一下好 部長 謝謝跟委員報告 財化法的修正其實我們多次召開跟地方政府的協商包括分配的指標跟權重都有做詳細的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
2881.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
2903.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那另外他們對於115年所分配的中央統籌分配稅款已大幅增加但都不提這一塊而只會喊計劃型的補助款減少事實上中央統籌分配稅款在115年已經多支出4165億這個大額的支出事實上有很多必須要回歸到地方自治事項去做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
2906.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
2931.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
幾個重點一個其實已經花了非常多時間討論他們不是不知道這是一個第二個他們只不講多拿走統籌的部分他們一直喊的是計劃型補助拿不回去喔我認為後續的討論這些應該更多資訊要公開讓國人知道不能放任地方縣市首長亂哀亂叫亂喊窮但是他們的市民根本不知道以台北為例之前的數字是多拿走了400多億對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
2933.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
2950.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
台北市是拿到是比原來多出400多億而且它以單一的盈利事業營業額這個單一指標所增加的金額就比114年各項指標合計的中央統合分配稅款還要多所以它是增加最多的一個市 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
2950.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
2969.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
但很可惜最先出來喊窮的說冷氣付不出來的或者是各式各樣教育補助沒有辦法支應的其實也是台北市我是為台北市民雖然我的小孩現在已經不在國民教育階段但是我還是感到非常的遺憾我真的想要拜託這些藍營的縣市首長當然還有白營的拜託坐下來你們就好好的談 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
2972.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
3001.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我就先講到這邊但才化法我真的要再度拜託韓院長我們禮拜五三讀通過的錯誤荒謬的版本就讓他留在立法院我認為這是院長可以為全台灣兩千三百萬人民做的最好的一件事情我接下來用這個概念我想要談一下花蓮後續的重建這三百億的事情我們就直接跳到再下一張好再來再下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
3002.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
3023.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
再下一張好 我想要談這個其實現在因為要開始重建了預算要開始下去了我非常接下來要非常感謝政委我相信您在後續的重建工程當中您會花費非常多的心力必須要跟縣市政府溝通必須要跟當地的很多團體溝通甚至要跨部會協同聯繫很多各個部會積極的協助地方重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
3023.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
3041.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
但是我們現在聽到另外一個對於花蓮過往財政紀律的擔憂過往大家認為花蓮縣政府在執行很多地方預算的時候呢有一點浮誇有一點一般人民看不懂包含那個非常神秘的這個地磚昂貴的這個地磚鋪在我們花蓮市中央這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
3042.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
3060.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那大家很擔心後續回到光復鄉這個重建會不會有很多也是人民看不懂的建設但是相關地方主管把錢花在自己喜歡的項目上但是一般民眾並不了解甚至呢剪彩的時候都說是他自己的努力但是做不好的時候就丟給地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
3061.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
3084.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
所以政委這邊我這樣講我想要先主動積極的建議我們如何納入地方的聲音因為現在在部落裡面他們有部落開始串聯部落年輕代表還有不同年齡階層那當然部落的代表跟原來的村里長系統是不一樣的但是過往在一些當地的委員所舉辦的座談會當中他說他要傾聽民意 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
3085.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
3109.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
他說要把民意帶到中央但是那個民意是關起門來的來 現在來講關起門來了只有他們認同的某些人才能夠進去那個說明會裡頭也變成當地民意被包裝過被壟斷過甚至被粉飾太平就是我現在投影片這一張所以我想要問一下政委我們後續的重建工程當中不管是從中央層級或是地方層級我們如何廣納災民的意見廣納部落的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
3111.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
3130.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
好 謝謝委員 這裡面的預算執行大部分都是中央單位在執行那其中有一部分當然是涉及到地方的部分 比方說對農業 農田的災損補助等等那這個是中央的經費 但是透過比方說地方的農會或者縣政府的農業處他們來 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
3133.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
3153.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
來受理申請 然後來發放比方說有關這個水溝就是下水道跟污水處理這個當然是中央的預算可以補助地方來做但是地方來代辦中央來代辦也可以其他包括便道 橋樑 書郡 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
3155.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
3183.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
還有將來的防洪設施等等這個都是中央單位在執行的絕大部分都是中央單位在執行中央單位執行就是已經參與原來的搶災應變的這些單位對地方已經很了解對現場已經很了解對現場的了解再根據這些來規劃那麼來編列預算我想每一筆錢都會很謹慎的很有效的來使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
3184.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
3209.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
對這個部分其實我沒有擔心啦因為從之前呢從次長到政委到院長都直接下去副總統也是但其實我要說當地的部落現在已經有些不同的聲音出來如果參考很多國際上這種大型重建的案例大家認為工程這當然必然要做這是確實是一部分很耗預算但是如何把當地的文化跟社區所在意的一些事情也納入後續的重建尤其是硬底重建完之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
3210.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
3235.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
還有所謂的軟體重建任性恢復這件事情其實真的有賴中央各個部會在溝通的時候甚至有一些預算他到縣市政府層級去執行的時候也希望可以納入地方代表的聲音這部分要拜託政委多加用心這部分包括農業部 內政部 園民會都在當地舉辦社區的說明會那麼會納入這個地方的需求包括園民的希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
3237.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
3252.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這個離災不離鄉或是中繼宰的相關的主張我想每個部會都有下去辦理說明會會中整這些意見來做最有效最有利於地方的安排好 以上謝謝好 謝謝陳培偉質詢謝謝左院長 相關部會首長備詢接下來請富坤齊委員 林倩齊委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
3297.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
3324.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
好 院長早好 早麻煩請卓榮泰卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢林委員長 副委員長院長早這一次馬太西夜色湖的不幸事件我們非常的遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
3326.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
3354.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
首先要感謝全國有這麼多的愛心的人士來給災區各種協助跟幫忙不只是捐錢捐物資也把自己的時間能夠空出來來到花蓮前前後後近百萬人來到花蓮產智超人也好醫護人員也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
3355.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
3382.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
還是我們怪手超人 卡車超人有這麼多全國人的愛心能夠來支援災區我們深表感謝但這一次的傷痛我們必須很清楚地講誠如林益君委員剛剛說的過去在就教於卓院長的時候農業部的時候你們都說沒有這麼嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
3384.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
3407.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
短短幾個月發生這麼慘重的事情我們在這裡不只要深刻的檢討而且要花這麼多人民的血汗錢來做災後重建政府的疏失卻有這麼嚴重的一個後果我們不希望這樣的悲劇再發生我們先看一段影片 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
3416.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
3429.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
霓水大道沖走一整個貨櫃這是昨晚8點多名利部落民眾拍下的驚險畫面鳳凰颱風雨勢驚人花蓮馬太安溪再度一流滾滾洪流夾帶大量砂石沿著大排灌進萬榮鄉名利村太誇張了 太誇張了 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
3430.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
3459.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
雲裡部落居民只喊太誇張因為不定時的一波波泥水從10號晚間就開始昨天早上也出現沖走汽車民宅也遭這個破口從7月份到昨天一流我多少次的通報會刊那時候紀連城也特別交代結果呢還是沒有動作水利署長到場會刊村長多次的通報無效 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
3461.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
3488.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
經濟部依然是老大心態對於人民不斷的陳情從去年的康瑞颱風就表示馬太恩西的兩個開口題要補起來到這一次名利村的村長一再的表達有破口要補講了多次都沒有補所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
3489.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
3518.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
整個政府失靈整個怠惰造成這麼嚴重的一個問題我想院長我們如果在事前本席今天講的話請院長一定要聽進去不要常常用政黨的立場想事情我們先用人民的立場想事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
3520.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
3538.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
如果我們可以之前就妥善的處理驗收今天不會有這麼慘重的損失過去五年經濟部如果有把馬太安西輸菌中央管河川如果有輸菌今天河床不會這麼高 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
3542.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
3567.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
你認同嗎過去十年已經有247萬方有疏軍本席再請教院長院長你認同嗎過去不是五年過去更長的時間對馬太安溪的疏軍中央管河川政府都一直在做這一次剛剛委員所說的破口破堤不是那名利村那個是堤防的末端是從來沒有堤防的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
3569.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
3594.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
事前也加強了沙包的工程過去五年中央管河川馬太安溪水利署有疏進嗎有沒有 剛剛部長已經說明了有還是沒有就這麼簡單有247萬方公米過去十年過去十年請資料提供出來好 可以本席從來沒有看過這樣的一個資料而且在9月23號之前發生之前247萬方 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
3599.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
3628.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
還是地方政府請求來紓進的還是縣政府請求來紓進的因為中央不紓進花蓮縣政府請求核專局准予紓進報告委員這一次的洪水是超過了百萬四倍以上本席只是問你有沒有紓進不用講這麼多針對本席問題回答就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
3630.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
3653.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
不要顧左右講其他不要浪費全民的時間本席問的問題都很簡單院長你又被蒙在鼓裡過去幾年的輸進經濟部都沒有做而是地方政府來請求核專局讓地方政府來輸進你回去好好看看看好資料過去幾年真的中央政府都沒有輸進嗎馬太西 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
3656.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
3680.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
過去三年四年五年你回去看一下本席還會再見到你這個會期不要急不要在這裡事實只有一個該怎麼講就講清楚比較好7月26號發現驗收如果有早一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
3681.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
3710.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
做好所有的相对应应措施今天不会有这么惨痛的伤害那立法院也在最短的时间通过了三百亿的灾后重建条例但是我们对现在编列的方式我们有非常多的意见非常多的意见我们简单来讲我们这次看到补助给人民的 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
3711.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
3738.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
補助給人民的在這300億裡面受災戶的補助總共雲林匯國土署產發署 中汽署 公路局總共12.85億另外還有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
3741.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
3766.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
農業的受災補助5.73億立法院給了行政院300億總共加起來直接補助人民18.58億我們再看看丹納斯颱風丹納斯颱風600億直接救助人民153.63億佔25% |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
3772.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
3801.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
馬太安西不幸事件補助18.58%18.58億才佔6%德納斯是天災政府補助四分之一馬太安西驗生不幸事件是人禍只補助6%其他都是公部門在做過去沒有做好的事情現在在補救 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
3803.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
3832.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我們給你這麼多的預算你現在送到立法院270億另外30億還要做談訊應用本席現在就嚴正的跟院長表達不管是在台灣的雲嘉南還是在台灣的花東都是中華民國國民我們補助的方式不能差距這麼大同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
3833.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
3861.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
委員應該知道原因啊第一點馬太安溪這邊還有14億的善款委員剛剛都感謝過 你都把它忘記了第二點丹納斯颱風雲嘉南地區受災的民眾到達6萬戶左右馬太安溪這邊受災的民眾大概是3000戶左右好 那本席請教一下雲嘉南這次的丹納斯在條例審查的時候我們都支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
3863.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
3885.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
包括嘉義台南的立委說到光一甲的溫室要八九百萬政府才補助一個五十萬沒有辦法不付成本要他建造成本的八成補助我們都支持我們都支持現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
3891.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
3914.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
雲嘉南沒有在丹納斯颱風當中有汽車的損壞那是強風這次花蓮一個小小的一個區域光復我們有增加一千多台我們有增加一千多台車那都是他們的生財器具所以增加了汽機車的補助生財器具你們補助10% 8% 6% |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
3920.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
3949.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
為什麼雲嘉南的鄉親需要的時候80%我們支持溫王室的標準是一樣的因為那邊主要是農損對 溫王室的補助是一樣那邊主要是生財積聚的損壞兩邊的情況不一樣但是都是災害造成的應該用一定同樣的標準來看待災民不管是十幾億的善款也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
3951.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
3963.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我們給了您300億對人民的救助就算十幾億加上去對不起十幾億加上去那是多少不到10個百分點 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
3965.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
3995.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
而這邊是25%丹納斯颱風所以本席對於你們所提出的內容這個我剛剛說明過了雲嘉南有6萬戶受災丹納斯3000戶受災內容現在不是人數的多寡但是你在講的是金額的多寡你只要金錢的多寡就牽扯到人數要用同理心來看待災民農村我們要支持對所有因為水災家裡淹了一兩米高 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
3996.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
4000.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
所有插電的東西全部壞掉所有汽車全部壞掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
4002.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
4016.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
所以菸社會的補助每一戶達到35萬每一戶達到35萬這也是過去沒有的例子我們願意多補助也應該多補助本期現在講的是生財細菌應該要一視同仁生財細菌應該是要一視同仁農業部對農損的賠償也是一致的經濟部對商家企業也是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
4030.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
4059.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
總院長在立法院我們會再行調整本席先讓你了解要用同理心來看所有的災民不管是台灣哪一次的傷口哪一次的傷害對人民的協助應該是以自信的再過來這一次所提出的行政院的這個版本本席有認真的拜讀過現在希望院長要記得一個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
4060.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
4087.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
因為這個重建的過程可能超過四年五年甚至可能六年漫天的封殺當中有這麼多的居民在那裡萬人加上所有工作人員裡面應該要編列這五年六年當中每一年要給這些居民做固定的健康檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
4088.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
4114.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
每一天居住在這種漫天的工地封殺當中人民的健康應該要守護院長同不同意屬於地方知識事項的部分請地方政府來執行這是地方災情該中央處理的部分中央會處理這是地方災情中央已經立法院國會已經通過了重建的條例人民在這個範圍裡面人民在這個範圍裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
4118.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
4134.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
沒有關係 院長若不認同 立法院會來處理再請教 9月23號 晏色湖第一次災難11月11號 第二次災難11月11號 當天發現晏色湖 當天通報當天疏散 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
4148.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
4169.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
請問一下院長 光復的鄉親還要過多久這樣的生活燕射湖什麼時候可以解決燕射湖目前我們監測到它的溢流都是很正常第二個它目前是五萬立方所以對於下游沒有造成立即的危險 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
4170.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
4199.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
所以現在我們行政院的內閣就是用這樣的腦子在腦袋這個是科學這個不是所以你們一直很科學啊科學到葉仁聖湖整個崩下來啊那個七月的時候七月那時候當天就潰壩啊丹納斯台灣那一次確實沒有崩因為那時候是不會崩的北溪再請教一次過去不管是921還是八八風災 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
4202.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
4229.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
兩次的驗射壺921南投草嶺的驗射壺八八風災高雄旗山的驗射壺當時的政府都把問題解決了請問一下左院長民進黨政府對於馬太興驗射壺這樣的問題什麼時候能夠解決給人民一個時間不然只要有風有雨八千多人要撤離 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
4232.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
4239.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我們不斷的重複這樣的劇情嗎對人民公平嗎政府失能還是失靈 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
4241.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
4270.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
這次馬太安溪驗射壺的量體有多大大體有多長委員你是清楚的跟過去不可同日而語甚至在9月我還邀請委員到中央災害應變中心你當場也看過當時我們跟大家說的10月驗射壺就有可能自然的溢流出來所以任何當時的作為包括委員所說的就把它炸掉那個都不可行其他的方式時間上也來不及在10月份之前都不能處理好 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
4271.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
4294.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
可不可行過去都運用過也都有成功固然卓院長認為不可詐不可詐的原因是什麼從來沒有說過我相信你也不是專家但是你有沒有請世界各國的專家來來處理葉勝武後續的問題 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
4297.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
4321.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
國內的專家已經告訴我們國內的專家就告訴你不行嘛你要相信啊沒有辦法嘛 我們相信的結果相信國父變成這個樣子就是相信政府的結果你不要輕視國內的專家對啊這就是民進黨的層次啊左內閣的水平就是這樣拜訓你 請教你第三次會不會有第三次 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
4322.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
4332.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
會不會有第三次已經兩次了會不會有第三次馬太安溪的南岸我們加強了光復鄉的這個提案你不敢回溪本達的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
4333.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
4357.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
大自然的力量你敢回說還會有地震嗎我誰誰都不敢講但是我們人為可以做的加強提案加強各種疏散撤離各種演練這是必要的所以現在就是左內閣的政府之下人民要永遠的有風有雨八千億萬人就要撤離這就是不要亂戴帽子 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
4359.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
4370.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
現在的左內閣不要亂戴帽子本需要再強調一下還有一億多一億多立方公尺的土石在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
4372.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
4387.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
不是你們講的5萬立方多少 50萬立方還有1億立方的我們會在上面開設便道去到壩頂吧委員大概不知道有這個狀況吧我們會想辦法開設便道去到壩頂有狀況的時候就會有助理的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
4390.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
4413.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
其實有個東西你們可以去了解一下就是您剛才說國內很多的專家都針對這個部分有一些看法但是全世界很多各種不同地形搞不好現在艷澀湖它所形成的這個地形已經非過往的一種經驗所以或許我們可以國內外的專家都來做一些資訊現在跟九月跟十月截然不同因為它已經往下升所以多問應該也沒有太 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
4414.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
4428.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
多問應該可以有機會解決問題所以不管是國內或國外只要能夠解決問題它就是一種方式然後第二個部分就是也因為這個艷澀湖的問題沒辦法解決所以經常有感覺很老民的這樣一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
4429.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
4445.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
疏通人民的一個狀況那院長你知道我們一移動一個人移動已經很累了然後幾千人常常在移動我想這也不是一個長久之計我想是不是您在這個專家的部分我相信國內的專家很專業或許是原民的一些過往都在這個空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
4446.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
4467.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
生活的人也是你們可以諮詢的一個對象因為我相信很多的齊老他們過去可能有碰過不同的狀況所以你們在徵詢所謂專家的同時在地的專業的人員或者是齊老你們也可以徵詢看看更何況現在全世界都有許多不同的災害或許國外也有一些跟我們地形很相近的狀況產生所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
4469.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
4471.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們已經請教國務院長要不要召開國際的會議把國際的專家都請來來共同商討 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
4488.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
4514.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
馬太基驗社會怎麼解決日本的專家已經送來水位監測儀他認為現在加強監測是現在最必須要做的所以當然這個部分是有的所以全世界現在只有日本這個國家沒有其他國家專家是嗎我說一你要說二我說二你要說三這種質詢毫無道理啊這個不用再問了他的態度你很清楚草菅人命本席在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
4517.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
4542.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
要讓你看一下什麼叫同理心你讓瓜福鄉的鄉民有風就要撤 有雨就要撤家到底在哪裡家到底在哪裡一個心中沒有人民的院長你看一看你的總統怎麼講的我們看一下賴總統怎麼感謝教師節的連續三天假期 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
4549.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
4553.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
這個就是賴總統在講台灣人民的愛心我們可以再三感謝產值超人我們請財政部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
4577.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
4604.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
財政部長被尋 農業部請回請問一下部長三天來了十幾萬人在教師節連假 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
4607.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
4632.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
賴總統講的 你有聽到嗎有聽到沒有 再過來不只923之後有教師節連假還有中秋節連假 還有國慶連假一個教師節連假來了十幾萬人請問一下一個中餐100塊錢 一個便當請問中餐要多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
4634.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
4662.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我想這個算數問題我們用100塊乘以十幾萬人就可以得到是多少是多少部長財政部部長請教當然是超過千萬是一千多萬那中餐一千多萬一個便當晚餐要不要吃當然有三餐是中餐晚餐這三天就兩千多萬對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
4664.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
4691.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
還有教師節連假 中秋節連假跟國慶連假 總共三個大連假所以本席只是跟卓院長確認一下這麼多愛心人士來到花陵我們當然餐食的供應是最基本的餐食供應應該是這麼大的災害是由中央來處理還是地方來處理 卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
4692.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
4720.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
很多熱心的役組團都紛紛進到花蓮本席是請教您是應該中央來處理還是地方來處理這麼大的災難地方是地主對於救災的工作中央會全力來協助你說是地方要來處理我們也同意地方來處理三天便當錢就兩千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
4722.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
4748.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
總共三個連假另外還有另外還有二十多天 總共三十多天三十多天總共花蓮縣政府花了四千零二十三萬我們感謝這麼多的役主團幫忙所以地方政府只花了四千零二十三萬其他都是役主團來幫忙還有整個災區的周圍全部都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
4750.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
4779.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
內政部的保警跟國軍的憲兵在維持交通您知不知道國軍在維持災區的交通跟內政部在維護保警因為地方還有各鄉鎮治安所以中央支援的保警來整個災區控管交通因為裡面塞爆有沒有一組團的東西要進來進不來有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
4781.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
4806.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個我們中央協調所都有把它納入應該注意的事項所以中央協調所有注意這個事該進來都會進來對不對好 謝謝所以應該都沒有被擋在外面都進得來但是事實上是有被擋在外面這個原因當時也是非常多詢問之後有放進來了對不對那不是我們有能力去阻擋的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
4807.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
4833.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
不是有沒有能力去阻擋因為國軍的憲兵在那裡跟內政部的保警在那裡好 謝謝我想立法院會對這一次的災後重建條例不合理的部分我們會做出一些調整跟回應因應災民的需求我們會做好相關的準備接下來我要請教一下因為我不太清楚昨天卓院長說要對 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
4836.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
4855.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
這個立法院全面迎戰我不曉得您是要跟國人迎戰還是要跟誰迎戰本席不了解但是我們看一下一個對照表114年跟115年我們兩年預算的編列明年統籌分配款 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
4860.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
4880.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
明年統籌費配款明年多了4167億給地方政府地方政府一般性補助款被你苛扣了1300億計畫型補助從今年的2954億明年減編了2600多億只剩308億所以明年實際上財務法修正以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
4889.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
4916.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
行政院撥給地方多出來的4100億從一般性補助扣了1300億計畫性補助扣了2646億是給地方220億這個卓院長一直說我們毀憲亂政220億我們禮拜五的修法也不過是把你苛扣地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
4917.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
4945.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
一般性補助款1300億還給地方政府因為這是關係到全民的包括老人照護包括教育包括地方的基礎建設這都是最基本照顧地方人民的事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
4947.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
4972.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
包括營養午餐 社福 療 醫療老人照護 教育等等所以本席在這裡民政的政告總統派院長區區的221個地方在這裡不斷的造謠造謠當現在已經成了卓院長了 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
4973.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
4985.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
已經是最常講的所有不實的謠言本席跟立法院通過的禮拜五通過的一般性補助款還給地方委員你認為給地方多220億太少是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
4995.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
5008.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
雖然你的數字我認為有誤啦就照委員所說的如果委員認為給地方多220億太少那你為什麼不會覺得中央給你少掉4000多億會太多呢賴清德怎麼講的來聽一下聲音聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
5016.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
5037.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
要解決不公平跟不公義唯有修改才化法否則的話即便樵覆也然也無米之炊台北看天下不顧地方的聲勢啊若不是來說 任何一個副總統都不應該與關聯在發電的法律上放在一邊都不必去管一天只說一些有的沒的 我覺得這是不應該的為國內的發電 大家來倒下手要求他們趕快在日本人 提案也好 要求也好這個才化法 公債法趕快通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
5046.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
5075.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
所以我要請教一下卓院長你要全面開戰是跟人民開戰還是跟賴清德市長開戰還是賴清德主席開戰還是賴清德總統開戰卓院長立法院通過的都是民進黨大聲疾呼賴清德大聲疾呼十幾年 二十年現在立法院的修法就是修財務法你不能講一句話就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
5076.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
5099.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
2012年所有地方政府的稅計剩餘是負的500多億去年今年是正的800多億地方政府已經好轉了你拿2012年賴市長的話來今天講請問卓院長去年超收多少錢前年超收多少錢四年超收一兆8700億我們有還債 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
5104.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
5116.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
就請你下來 請你不要跟賴清德總統宣戰不要跟全民宣戰請你要把民進黨對人民的承諾要好好的執行你不要跟賴清德宣戰謝謝 謝謝 時間已到 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
5126.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
5152.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
謝謝謝謝傅坤祺委員 林建杰委員質詢謝謝謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長貝勳深呼吸 喝口水好 謝謝我們在議場二樓旁邊的來自台北市大安區我們所有的好朋友們我們掌聲鼓勵掌聲歡迎接下來陳議員質詢之後我們將會休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
5154.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
5154.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我們請陳毅委員質詢 吳麗華委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
5187.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
5209.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
謝謝主席 我們麻煩請行政院長以及農業部麻煩再請卓院長 農業部長備詢然後後續接下來的問題再請環境部跟經濟部準備好環境部 經濟部請準備陳委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
5209.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
5225.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
院長好次長好大家辛苦了我想對於這個馬太溪顏色湖的這樣子的一個災難我想我們大家都非常的心疼災區的災民 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
5227.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
5254.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
也對於所有參與救災的志工們還有所有的我們工部門的所有的同仁表示最大的敬意那我想有幾個問題來救教你們在這一次的特別條例裡面呢農業部編列了43億元那其中我有到現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
5256.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
5282.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
到花蓮的災區有去看其實在整個大面積的農田是被大量的垃圾跟沙土都給淹沒了清起來看起來好像是耗大的工程非常的耗大我想先請教一下次長就是在盤點之後有多少的農田面積 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
5284.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
5301.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
是被這些殺土垃圾被覆蓋住了是 非常感謝委員關心目前我們所做的這個估算被這些土砂淹沒的這些農田總共堆積土砂有達到600萬方立方米 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
5303.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
5331.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
600萬立方民那你們現在就是目前大概有已經有定案要怎麼處理了嗎還是說現在還討論中是我們已經分為短中長期短期的話我們對於這些被土砂淹沒的農田短期我們會給他這些農作物的這些天然災害受損的這個救助金第二個我們會給他這些農業方面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
5333.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
5359.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
他的設備還有機器相關的補助次長不好意思我想請教的就是說對於剛剛您講的600萬立方米600萬公噸的這些沙土還有垃圾你們要怎麼處理要把它移走還是要就地就擱置看用什麼樣的方案去處理我們現在是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
5360.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
5389.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
有我們調查了之後有528公頃那個是一般受災的他的這個土的掩蓋是在50大概只有幾公分50公分以下的這個我們可以把它就是直接來翻耕還有這個土壤改良機所以在那邊這個就是說那些沙土的這些土質是適合的嗎對對那另外有246公頃他是被淹沒淹沒到最高達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
5390.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
5409.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
6.5公尺那麼高我們已經跟農民開過5次的座談會有300多人參加那聽他們的意見他們有的希望說能夠再做農地重劃有的說是不是以後就照林等等那目前我們會按照民意來作為下一步所以現在是還在討論當中沒有最後的定案嗎對 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
5410.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
5430.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
因為就本席的了解在這整個過程當中當然有幾個處理的方案因為他現在大家看起來目前都還沒有最後的共識也還沒有最後的大概已經慢慢的形成有一些是他希望能夠再復更有一些是希望能夠說 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
5431.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
5447.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
他認為說已經煙那麼高的話即使要復工都還很困難所以他們需要現在這個問題本期是比較擔心因為有種種的可能就是說從剛剛您講的就是說就地的處理因為那個量真的很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
5449.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
5468.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
另外有些人他希望能夠復耕但復耕是要按照他原來的樣貌去復耕還是說他可以去轉作的復耕那還有一種是還有一種聲音就是說希望把那邊所有的這些殺土全部都移走 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
5470.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
5497.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
那我想我在這邊想要提出來的就是說因為現在都是有種種的可能那你也有可能去架構或者說要本席本來也想就是說建議說是不是有可能用換地的方式那既然還沒有定案我覺得在後續接續的討論大家可能都還有一些空間可以去談但是我要提出來就是說也先請教就是說這麼多萬一 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
5499.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
5524.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
有人堅持就說我們600萬公噸的這些沙土我們全部都要移走的話要請教就是說你們有沒有評估過要做這樣的事情我們大概要花多少經費事實上架構我們是有編列因為要移除的話那個是很大的工程第一個氣質的地方第二個就是他那一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
5525.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
5555.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
除了棄置之外他那一些有一些根本沒有辦法再恢復但是這樣你這樣移走的經費你們應該有估過多少錢吧所以當時架構的話我們目前是編7.9億我是說那個沙土移走的部分跟當地的這些居民或者是地主跟他們談的結果絕大部分因為在50公里以下那個就是自動可以把它就是把它耕了之後還可以作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
5556.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
5574.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
這個培養土那我們會給他輔導跟給他這個土壤改良劑我想那個次長一直都避開我的問題沒有直接回答因為我想我今天是600萬立方公的這個土啊500多萬他可以在當地做復耕另外有246公頃那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
5576.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
5593.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
另外有一些已經到達6公尺高的那可能跟地主談一下或許就留置在那個地方而不是把他遷走把他移走但留置在那個地方地主希望是怎麼樣是要提出各種的需求我們現在正在做所以我們的前進我們現在設的這個協調匯報處理的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
5597.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
5611.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
東部地區的整個國土的規劃重點在於它的農田的富裕再生的未來怎麼跟地方談到大家都能夠接受目前都是在討論的階段因為很多的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
5612.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
5641.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
或者有一些的规划进到立法院的时候常会有一些变数那本席只是在担心有一种变数就是万一到最后又有人坚持说要全部移走的时候所以我才说请你们去试算因为我有先去有去稍微研究了一下大概因为这个挪走的这个经费是不是听说有大概要三四十亿左右面积240亿 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
5642.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
5657.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
全部挪走的話大概要耗費三四十億左右有這樣估算過吧但是剛剛市長說的不會全部都必須要移走有些可以留在現場我們說如何的富裕讓他再生那其他有一部分比較高的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
5658.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
5687.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
是要怎麼處理現在還在談如果真的要把地再恢復過來那就必須移走移走的工程非常大因為我講的是說因為要你們去估算是這樣因為三四十億的這個費用就是影響的大概有300出頭左右300位左右的這個農民我是說那三四十億大家分一分也差不多一千一千多萬這個其實就分一分就 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
5689.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
5716.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
但是真的能這樣嗎 也不一定因為後續可能還有到時候土地重劃之後農地重劃之後還會有一些費用的不同所以這個部分我想我只是點出來我們請農業部跟這個地主或是部落的族人談一談未來該怎麼做他們現在也在進行這個工作是不是可以容許我報告委員一下因為其實如果受到這些土砂埋沒的這一些不管他埋沒的 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
5717.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
5738.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
多深或者是一二十公分我們去看了之後其實我們已經把界限畫出來而且讓他們來申請每一公頃我們會給他十萬來恢復恢復他本來就可以耕種的這個另外因為你們有這個休耕的專案那休耕但是我這樣換算這個時間所以你們那個休耕大概要休多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
5738.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
5765.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
因為這個還牽扯到因為我看你們還有編列這個農機具的這個補助那因為現在大部分那個地方可能種我看了一下種稻米 種大豆黑豆的這個比例比較高那你要再補助這個農機具他們可能種的東西都不太一樣現在被淹沒的地區我們是首先鼓勵他們種雜糧因為那邊我們如果在翻土之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
5766.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
5792.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
他必須要有牛踏騰的行程之後才能夠種水稻所以一開始幾年我們會輔導他來種栽量那這一些其實我們每一期一年兩期做一期給他四萬四一年給每一位還在休耕當中給他八萬八那另外他的貸款我們利息也會補貼給他那最重要就是希望能夠他盡快能夠來復耕復耕之後其實他的收益會比休耕還好 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
5793.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
5799.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以你們這樣評估時間需要多久這個條例必須要在116年兩期的話因為這個計畫可以到119那事實上我們很希望兩年內全部都幫他們輔導來修讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
5810.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
5826.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
對現在這個特別預算好 謝謝 次長請回座另外我想要再請教的就是有關於在環境部請環境部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
5827.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
5839.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
在補助地方政府辦理沙土混雜廢棄物的區劃分類的部分還有經濟部麻煩請經濟部長備詢請一起上來我想要請教就是說在補助在對於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
5851.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
5878.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
這一次我們在這次的風災有相當大量的這個垃圾跟沙土是夾雜混合的那你們目前都堆置放在哪裡量多少跟委員報告目前是堆在第三站置區所以一般的垃圾靠糖廠嗎對用糖廠的地好那目前看起來就是說那個陽城會引起那個陽城也非常大 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
5879.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
5891.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
所以現在上面有去覆蓋防水布就是沒有下雨的時候它可以防陽塵好 那我再請教一下就是說接下來的你們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
5894.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
5920.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這個沙土混雜廢棄物的這個分類跟去化的這個處理你們是要就是說補助就是地方政府自行去採購這個篩分機器去處理還是說委託你們去就是委外處理業者來辦理目前編列的是補助花蓮縣政府去委外招商來做這個篩分分選跟再利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
5921.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
5940.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
好所以就是也是直接都到地方去處理那現在有一個有一個問題就是在我其實也花相當多的時間在災區那我有觀察到一件事情就是說因為它這個你們在分類之後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
5942.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
5965.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
有大量的這個沙土的部分這邊可能要請教一下就是說這個沙土的部分也是要洗過之後那就是沙石的部分那我現在了解到的部分是我們的這個在花蓮沙石廠其實因為這次的風災已經全部都毀損掉了我不知道部長有沒有掌握這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
5967.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
5986.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
光復附近的部分沙石場還有其他部分像玉里其他部分還有報告委員就是說如果是疏菌的部分就是從河川裡面挖出來的部分我們當然是暫時在有些是作為提防使用有些是暫時在台上的土地上 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
5987.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
6016.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
那最終還是要去化那現在看到的齁整個即便剛剛委員提到的就是有一些已經那個砂石廠損毀但是還有的部分目前這個量有多少對一年的處理量最多最多可能是150萬方而已那我們現在要清出來的齁輸進出來可能到2026年底的時候可能會清出1000萬方出來所以一定量能是不夠的所以我們還是要想辦法還是要去化 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
6017.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
6028.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
這個去化因為運輸的問題有成本上的問題我們現在正在考量說怎麼樣讓它比較順暢的去化到台灣其他的地方去 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
6029.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
6057.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
所以這個部分就是說基本上目前花蓮本身量能沒有辦法沒有辦法快速的處理這些沙土所以一定要請外縣市的一起來協助對那所以或者是所以這個部分大概你們的方向處理方向大概是這個樣子所以有預估大概多久我們現在正在討論說怎麼樣處理方式比較好但是先前段的話還是請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
6059.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
6084.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
花蓮在地的沙子廠來幫助但是顯然是量能是不足的好 這樣了解所以你們可能量能不足的部分你們還要趕快想辦法看是不是外縣市一起來處理最後我再請教一下院長在丹納斯重建條例的時候我跟莊惠雄委員有提一個附帶決議就是洋流颱風造成的損害也準用丹納斯 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
6085.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
6113.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
這個重建條例來處理那我們台東在那一次楊柳颱風的這個災害其實有很多的這個水利灌溉設施是毀損需要處理的那這個部分是不是在經費上呢所有受影響的這些經費上是不是也準用這個丹納斯重建條例的經費可以去涵蓋是 如果因為風災造成的而且在災區裡面的我們就用特別條例特別預算來處理否則未來屬於 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
6119.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
6124.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
好 抱怨會 謝謝陳營委員 謝謝陳院長各部會相關部會首長備詢 謝謝我們11點鐘繼續開會繼續進行質詢上半場我們謝謝陳經威委員陪同我們一起來參與今天的專案報告我們接下來請吳麗華委員休息之後質詢 先來休息 |