| IVOD_ID |
170439 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170439 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-14 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
17 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-14T15:10:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-14T15:21:20+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:38 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad2906fa72ef919955efeebaae1e0056684f067b6a62f29a5e65eceeb41f9cd01932705a9722646d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:10:42 - 15:21:20 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-14T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第17次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院委員洪孟楷、楊瓊瓔、王鴻薇、蘇清泉、林德福、廖偉翔、黃健豪、陳玉珍等52人擬具公民投票提案主文為：「您是否同意政府制定法律，針對性侵害犯罪、凌虐幼童罪、以及高額詐欺罪、複合型態加重詐欺罪，增設由法院宣告並依法執行之特別刑法制度（鞭刑），以嚇阻犯罪持續發生？」請公決案等6案。二、行政院院長率同相關部會首長列席提出中聯油脂大豆沙拉油事件及食安監管機制缺失檢討專案報告並備質詢。（7月14日下午）三、7月14日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
9.868 |
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11.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
什麼叫做一級致癌物? |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
32.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
56.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
這是我們在這次的郵事件當中本PAPI所產生出來的吃到身體裡面當然對人體的健康產生致癌的可能性沒關係讓我告訴您根據國際癌症研究機構的致癌物的分類系統就是所謂的第一級致癌物它就是確定會在人體引起癌症而且這個證據是充分到可以證明致癌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
86.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
這一次我們油品爆發了本田皮它的超標這個成分正是一級致癌物很遺憾兩年前賴總統才剛上任的時候因為他談到健康台灣談到要把國人的癌症死亡率降低三分之一沒想到現在出現了大油廠大油廠為全國人民為人民致癌油我想這真的是個大諷刺 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
88.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
107.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
院長中原油脂生產的沙拉油出現本田皮超標那我想剛剛您報告了很多但是我想再了解一次這一次這一回究竟是從巴西進口的這個大豆出了問題還是中原的製程出問題請問行政院這一回釐清了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
108.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
122.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
一開始我們都認為原料跟製程都必須在經過行政調查以及未來的司法調查所以你要知道現在郵品這個中聯的廠商他既然會刻意的延誤通報隱匿實行 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
124.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
140.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
但我們現在只有行政調查問當然不一定問得出來實情必須經過司法院司法調查我覺得行政調查真的是要加油院長請你看一下這個資料2024年1月到11月進口了基因改造大豆蔥巴西 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
142.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
154.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
150萬8公噸然後去年3月到9月進口了將近88萬公噸那今年2月到6月已經進口了70萬公噸我先請教院長您知道1公噸是幾公斤嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
156.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
181.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
一千公斤所以這三年來我們大概已經進了三十億公斤的大豆那這張表是海關進出口的統計那中聯說他們是因為產季這個生產季節的關係真的嗎那我覺得這是推卸之詞反正簡單的說哪裡便宜哪裡買根據這個季節第一季跟第四季都會從美國進口多 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
199.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
第二季跟第三季都會從八季進來的事實上我們計算了剛剛我已經報告你了以這三年來進來了三十億公斤那假如是進口原料有問題的話那我想請教廠商驗收的時候以及準備加工的時候需不需要做檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
200.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
223.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這就是未來要強化的地方只有都是廠商自主檢驗我覺得公權力應該要下放到這裡去那如果是製程出問題一個是原料一個是製程嘛那剛剛您報告很多但是那之前沒有驗出來是事實嘛他第一次說他沒有問題嘛那究竟是真的沒有問題呢還是他一次再驗一直再驗驗到沒有問題為止才把那份報告交出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
224.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
249.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
根據7月7號左右中聯自己驗的那一批來看他認為自己都沒有問題是不是7號我們認為他的樣本有問題政審部長來說明什麼我稍後會再談檢驗問題這個問題非常重要跟委員簡單說明一下其實我們在7月6號就進入到這個中聯的油廠把他過去逐批留下來的這個樣本我們都拿去驗驗完之後才發現呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
250.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
他的報告都不正常但是下游的商品卻回報所以這個就是我們講的因為不一次的關係所以這一次環節在哪裡還是找不到嘛還沒有釐清嘛這是事實目前還沒有釐清因為他的資料我們懷疑有這個沒有辦法佐證所以就很難直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
268.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
284.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
去point說是哪一個點出了問題不過也跟委員報告在這整個過程當中當然有委員有一些專家給我們一些意見我可以請教一下院長謝謝部長衛福部因為他從7月1號開始就我認為就違反了食安法第15條院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
286.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
315.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他只公布了一千三百公噸的這個內批油中離內批油但是那時候不公布下游受影響廠商的再加工品跟這個混製油我跟院長另一下什麼叫食安這個食安法他的核心法條第15條第15條這意思是說凡是食品或是食品添加物只要有以上死款情形他就不能再做往後的工作加工調製販賣包裝輸入等等都不能再做了那麼其中第三項就是含有毒物質 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
316.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
331.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
或是對人體健康有危害的物質所以事實上一開始只公布上流第一層的時候就違反了食安法第15條那上週石部長也親口證實了剛剛你有做了一部分說明但是我還是要弄清楚他3號向院長報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
333.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
345.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那對於這個產品下架的時候院長您指示了再考慮看看那這個指示我覺得啦我覺得造成處理的延宕也導致衛福做出了天下大亂的下架標準7月3號下午5點鐘我們在開會那時候第一層已經下架了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
352.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
371.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我要求的再檢討是第二層法因為一層一層都當時衛福部的決定是第二層依照這個處理原則第二層不能下架我是要他再考慮如何處理第二層下架先公告再下架所以意思是說部長說你那天在諮詢會你們沒有面對我你們搞的什麼20%含量根本是胡來 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
376.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
393.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這就是湖南天下大亂的一個你們自己找的標準事發時其實我立刻發出聲明而且我在委員會執行的時候我也強調說你處理第一層就是違反食安品第15條這個非常清楚那你們公布你看這個數字你們從公布你們慢慢很猶豫1300公噸到2600公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
397.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
411.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
後來變成27萬公噸又改成2.7萬公噸反正數字一變再變剛剛院長也報告了事實我們也知道了南橋再度另外一批這回不知道又是多少萬公噸所以我必須請問院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
413.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
429.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
當這個衛福部隊下架產品他那個再考慮看看不管是您說您沒有指示還是說這個衛福部部長本來是只有專責專長他做這個決定是要考慮什麼大家在考慮什麼是考慮政府的收拾善後能力嗎在考慮什麼呢2017年食品 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
434.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
449.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
下架回收封存銷毀的處理原則處理原則這是有第一層第二層這是根據食安法定的處理原則第一層什麼樣的程度下架到第二層什麼樣的程度下架到第一層 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
449.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
475.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這邊有幾個問題他們沒有完全的面對所以我要請教您那根據媒體報導剛剛您也稍微提到中聯郵局在4月8號到10號他三天出產了這個生產了出貨1300公噸那給他的大股東福茂、福壽跟泰山為什麼13日他才去做SGS檢驗請問食用有時屬於高風險的食品為什麼可以先出貨再檢驗您同意嗎?您講到時候您同意嗎?先出貨再檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
476.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
485.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
可以嗎?可以這樣做嗎?跟委員說明我們現在的要求上當然他要有近期的檢驗他是不對的所以未來我們已經現在做改變4月22號他的檢驗值是1.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
492.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
515.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但是這個在經過南橋的提出這個事件以後他後來檢驗他先送到中原先送到這個IG位是兩倍超標後來他又回到原始的SGS是四倍超標那我現在問同樣一批你剛剛提到流樣我假設說你懂什麼叫流樣就原始的流樣為什麼同一批樣品你會沒有是合格的然後變成兩倍超標四倍超標發生了什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
516.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
535.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
跟委員說明他們所使用的檢體不同第一個發現的是南橋那南橋是從他的戰友的樣本裡面去運作同一批都去檢驗結果不合格檢驗都不合格或是說簽OK的然後兩倍超標四倍超標所以我想問這個檢驗到底是取樣有問題還是檢測有問題或是更嚴重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
542.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
567.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
SGS是不是一直配合廠商一直做檢驗一直做檢驗做到合格的時候才公布出來才把那個報告提出來他不斷的做啊不合格了他就隱瞞啊合格的時候才提告出來啊院長這個問題非常的嚴重我們這個實驗室有經過認證然後我們有做過比對那基本上他的檢驗是一致性是高的所以這兩個檢驗機構是OK部長你今天本來我是要請教院長的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
569.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
586.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
因為這次的重點我覺得是檢驗檢驗出了什麼問題石油署所有三道把關他說有自行檢驗、自主檢驗、委外還有抽驗現在前兩道都破功了所以今天才會害我們所有國人包括你跟我我們整個都陷在這個癌石油的風暴裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
587.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
615.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
那這個如果下游廠商自己做檢驗已經變成一個弊端了就是上下游那要介入啊政府機關要介入啊請問我再強調一次我再問清楚您可不可以逐批檢驗現在我們接下來逐批檢驗對不對對就是出游的時候上游第一層逐批你要到每一個廠房去包括它這個進口還有它加工的時候都要逐批檢驗可以嗎對可以可以齁我們就是往這個方向去修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
615.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
616.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好 謝謝謝謝陳委員 謝謝卓院長 |