| IVOD_ID |
170416 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170416 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-22-19 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
19 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第19次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-13T09:55:10+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-13T10:30:55+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:35:45 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0e832b2683ee9eceabc874e6c18c5f26160bf55e4e25a13940017af413311b289b6e307be05129615ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
羅廷瑋 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:55:10 - 10:30:55 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀、衛生福利部政務次長林靜儀、行政院食品安全辦公室主任許輔列席就「校園食品安全把關機制及致癌油事件因應作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、邀請教育部部長鄭英耀列席就「學生出缺勤管理及校園秩序維護政策亂象檢討與改善措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
三、審查教育部函為修正「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」部分條文及「公立高級中等以下學校教師成績考核辦法」第五條、第六條之一條文案。
四、審查
(一)國民黨黨團擬具「教育經費編列與管理法第三條條文修正草案」案。
(二)委員林德福等25人擬具「教育經費編列與管理法增訂第三條之二條文草案」案。
(………因系統字數上限，詳見議事日程)） |
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SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[598].start |
2137.03034375 |
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2143.59471875 |
| transcript.pyannote[599].speaker |
SPEAKER_00 |
| transcript.pyannote[599].start |
2145.65346875 |
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2146.76721875 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
4.002 |
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32.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好謝謝主席有請教育部部長衛福部林靜儀政次還有食安辦主任請教育部長林靜儀政次還有食安辦主任委員好部長好政次好主任好我先請教一下衛福部想請問一下政次像行政院召開行政院院會跟縣市各個開會的時候你會在嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
52.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
不一定 部長通常是部長出席好 九日時部長說行政院會台中副市長問什麼時候這些油品可以上架那媒體就去詢問黃副市長你有說過嗎黃副市長說我只有建議更嚴格的風險管控還有源頭的處理全面下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
52.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
70.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那我們再看到衛福部在會後竟然補充說明說台中市沒有說何時上架只有說全面下架的問題大街來抹黑小巷來澄清喔那我想部長有沒有跟你說這個部分沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
98.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我想麻煩你幫忙轉達一下請部長在所有的事實陳述的時候還是要特別注意那不要有任何的抹黑狀況因為我想現階段到底什麼是真什麼是假我們更注重在官員在質詢的過程甚至是在被詢的時候的一些解說還有記者會所提供的一些內容參據都會讓我們民眾能夠更了解現況我們看到12日呢 石部長他在指出啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
121.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
下游的游品和上游的原油檢驗存在落差同樣的事情不只一樁但是因此啊衛福部懷疑到中聯油指的檢體造假第一時間才不公佈所以才會擴大到4到6月的產品全數預防性下降在對應11日我們看到台中地院裁定中聯油總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
123.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
135.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
認罪交保的理由是行使業務上登載不實的文書罪顯然本案已經進入到真審的一個階段我就尚未公開的資訊不做任何的質詢待願檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
138.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
調以及貴部來做調查偵查告一段落以後我們也希望政府應該向國人來說明那我想徐主任我們在這邊也要應該感謝檢調在第一時間跟衛福部來配合才能挖掘最底層我們現在才知道的一些黑暗資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
183.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
就如同食藥署在前身食藥局的時候99年到100年跟我們的調查局一起合作才能夠破獲肅起食品摻雜威爾岡的偽藥案件這也是當時食藥辦成立的一個目的作為跨部會的協調工作但是我們現在來看到幾個報刊雜誌食藥署食品組 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
185.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
199.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
主長許超凱指出這類食用油所製的黃豆業者都是採河川採購考量黃豆季節性以及業者會同時採購美國巴西 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
202.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
229.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
以及目前國內多數的煉油廠製成原料驗收都是從粗榨的毛油來做檢驗以及後續的脫色、脫臭過程均做得比中煉油脂還要好可以研判將這個一律的致癌物它的標準下降至限量的一個標準下我們又看到9日江志剛又說台糖5、6月向福茂 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
230.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
254.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
購入了中聯油脂出炸的油品至自家的出炸油品來混合精煉所以製成了台塘大豆沙拉油以及烤酥油兩品項我們看到台塘現在也有預防性的一個下架作為但11日我們又看到呢石崇良表示10月8日以後石耀署至我們三家煉油廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
255.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
261.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
大同義台塘常輝實業進行駐場我想問一下喔林次 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
264.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
291.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
10月8日食藥署前往7月8日我們至三家煉油廠大同義台糖常輝是否由於檢調來做配合偵查現階段還有沒有跟他們其他時段共同使用黃豆原料與中聯油是使用同一批傳的 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
307.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
其他沒有都完全沒有目前這兩批就是目前的話我們在預防性下架這個部分就是跟中聯有關的這兩批該抽驗30件的檢體化驗的報告出爐了嗎是不是應該及時公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
308.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
沒有全部出來那目前已經出來的15件包含大統一常輝這邊還沒好我們希望報告出爐要及時公告我們跟委員報告我們這邊因為持續都在驗所以我們有新的報告我們都會再公布我想自來獨有磁藥組第一時間定義戰犯是巴西進口含水率過高的黃豆然後安排學者說是巴西黃豆在原產地採收了後 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
363.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
乾燥蒸熏的過程恐出現熱損傷而產生了BAP的一個問題然而從今年1到5月台灣從巴西進口的黃豆量總量達到了59.9萬噸該批大豆除了供應中聯油脂還有可能三家的其他煉油廠大同義台糖常會失業是否有少量供應其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
364.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
383.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
做醬油豆漿豆類製品的工廠畢竟沙拉油在煉製過程BAP的含量下降80%以上但其他豆類製品直接粉碎加工使用我們都很想知道市長有沒有其他的漏網之魚醬油豆乾 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
類製品這個是製程不同那剛剛提到我知道但是同一批去使用的話我們都會擔憂對跟我們報告其實因為它的黃豆是因為它的這個剛剛講的它可能水分等等的問題所以它在製油的過程中我們還有另外一個剛剛提到HACCP要處理就是油廠它在製造的時候因為它的來源可能水分不同的關係它要有它的這個我們講HACCP好的瓶管每個節點要去做瓶管我知道剛剛多人會擔心嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
413.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
442.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
您提到的是黃豆來源的製品對不對同一批黃豆來源的製品這個部分我們會另外後續所以我要提醒嘛就是說現在國人會擔憂同一批的黃豆如果有問題它做成醬油或者是加工類的製成不同我知道製成不同但是我們還是鼓勵衛福部食藥署應該去抽查檢驗嘛去了解雖然製成不同但同一批的黃豆會不會有相關的製成食品來讓國人吃下肚 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
443.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
471.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
有問題我覺得這樣好不好跟這些黃豆同一批黃豆他用同樣跟這個油一樣製成的我們全面來做一個跟您做一個報告這樣好不好所以你可以同意去做檢驗嗎我們確認一下是不是同一批黃豆因為通常黃豆來源不好我是具體的建議同一批黃豆有不同的製品醬油都應該去檢驗看看擴大去檢驗我了解你說的製程不同它所造成的問題可能不盡相同但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
472.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
498.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
擴大檢驗避免食安嘛好不好那就是您所說的就是跟這一批黃豆有關的我們全面清查一下好不好我想巴西黃豆有問題啦那美國黃豆是否也有問題我們也應該同樣的去了解一下如果不是巴西黃豆的問題那我想對於貿易果斷的臆測是否對貿易夥伴有不盡之處還是要謹慎處理這個部分我只是提醒而已但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
498.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
518.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
美國黃豆我們也是希望最高的品質就是全面稽查不要有掛一漏萬這個委員我們要再強調一下就是我們其實現在辦專家為什麼我們讓那個中聯我們還沒有讓他能夠復工就是我們對於他在製造過程應該要做品管的節點他還沒有辦法說服我們他有好的品管 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
519.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
539.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好 這個部分麻煩我提醒一下那現在我們看到有教授在指出說BAP超標的案例其實非常罕見一般從油脂精煉的角度來看即便是毛油BAP的含量偏高脫膠 脫酸 脫澀 脫臭完整的精煉程序以後理論上是可以把濃度下降 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
540.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
557.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
又說黃豆原料精萃取精煉就能把不是山酸甘油脂的部分拿掉而BAP就是不是山酸甘油脂它就是這個部分的成分理論上可以程序降低我要請問一下徐主任現在大豆自由出問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
558.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
570.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那大豆破呢大豆破跑去哪了有沒有製成飼料有沒有追蹤銷賣收回這個全世界對於飼料的BAP的管理都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
572.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
589.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
訂定這個標準所以現在會認為進入飼料供應鏈動物的飼養經濟動物上面是沒有問題全世界沒有規範但是我現在提出一個問題我也請國人聽聽看是有問題的可能性這個BAP做成飼料 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
590.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
617.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
供這些飼養動物來食用那我們再來吃這些飼養的動物這個部分我們有疑慮嘛所以我認為這個部分依照法規黃豆有問題我們不管後面加工就是不可以用飼料管理法就規定飼料不可以使用變質的原料目前大豆破的流向為何食安辦有沒有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
618.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
635.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
大豆粕大部分是進入飼料供應鏈那這一批有問題的黃豆所製成的大豆粕現在也是一樣做成飼料嘛那做成飼養動物的時候我們就會懷疑嘛雖然世界沒有定義 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
636.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
651.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
但是我們會不會有疑慮謝謝委員我補充一下因為這些黃豆它做成油那這個本田皮它是融在油裡所以它在油的過程現在我們知道沙拉油這個過程它被融出來了理論上如果照學理上來講它是不會在豆粕那一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
652.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
666.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
好 我希望你們的推斷是對的啦但是我還是要再次的提醒大拓破同一批黃豆他所製成的是不是有疑慮這個部分你們應該加強一下因為我們現階段對於整個民進黨的食安五環 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
667.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
689.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
已經徹底破功我們感到非常非常的擔憂我還是要針對這個部分建議衛福部啊針對壟斷性的大宗代工廠進行提高頻率的無預警的製程抽驗來列入不定期的抽查這個部分還要拜託食安辦要完全負責協調統籌跨部會的食品管理作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
690.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
705.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
然後來做這個形式的偵查配合調查局配合檢調這部分要提醒一下好 包養員就是這個地方的抽查我們會跟地方衛生局一起合作因為這個主要抽查是地方衛生局這個我還是要提醒你們要有一個角色第二個我要再問教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
706.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
735.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
部長問直接的說這起自癌毒友進入到校園不是食安的問題是教育主管機關教育部嚴重失職的一個問題事情早在4月就發現但到現在已經擴及20個縣市623所學校258所幼兒園結果教育部第一反應是地方政府第一線落實查核請問中央主管機關的角色根本就是把監管失能全部甩脫交給我們第一線跟地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
736.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
762.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們是沒有辦法接受的我們現在來講教育部一直在講滾動式盤點或許有疑慮就先下架的預防措施以學生健康為唯一的標準這句話聽起來很好聽啊事實上也是這樣啊我們能夠做的就是這樣嗎以學生健康為唯一標準那請你告訴國人這幾個月教育部做了哪一件事情對得起這句話你該不會要說有疑慮就先下架吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
763.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
785.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那我問你,有疑慮就先下架,衛福部說20%含量的可以繼續留存在貨架上,你能不能接受?我問你嘛,你說有疑慮就先下架,衛福部說20%含量的可以留在貨架上,你能不能接受?你先回答我,你能不能接受? |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
786.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
800.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們所有的下架規準全部依據食藥署的一個公佈然後22個地方縣市教育技術馬上所以你剛剛說有餘地就下架嘛你就是在打點衛福部嘛衛福部說20%含量的時候不用下架啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
802.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
830.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
來教育部我們現在場面化大家這樣子講但是重點的作為呢政府公布了問題產品的名單喔只是風險揭露第一步喔真正關鍵是什麼我們現在攝入致癌物質的學生教育部下一步作為要怎麼樣負責你告訴我我想如果有家長有餘力我們會請學校地方建設政府來協助學校把名單不要家長有餘力嘛全國國人一定都有餘力嘛我現在目前家長最關心的不是怎麼退貨 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
831.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
842.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
他們不是要那個小錢欸他們現在關心的是孩子的健康風險如何評估嘛那家長要不要協助他們長期追蹤嘛你們有沒有醫療的協助諮商窗口後線照顧我們學生嘛好 待會我讓你說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
848.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
862.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以我今天要提出具體的完整方案跟配套我希望教育部要講清楚說明白請教育部儘速提出健康照護還有制度改革的一個方案讓食安防線不會停留在事件發生後的補救 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
863.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
884.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
還有所謂我們要建立所謂的預防追溯應變照護四大機制請說明謝謝委員提醒事實上這一定是中央跟地方要一起合作的我們所有的營養午餐每天所有的食材全部公開透明登錄在這個食材上所以當七月一號一一公佈食藥主義公佈的時候我們已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
886.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
909.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
22個地方縣市全部在平台裡面掃貨一次才發現有1380個學校用到中聯所提供的這三家的油品然後接著我們請22個地方縣市教育局處馬上學校裡面根據那個品項逐一的來做下架的一個我想我們教育部在這個部分跟地方是後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
911.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
931.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
剛才委員所提我們事實上也在思考如果學生有因為這兩個月的時間覺得身體不適的話家長是不是學校建立一個機制讓怎麼樣來做一個比較一個長期的我相信孩子不會現在感受到不是啦我希望你針對623所學校258所幼兒園能夠針對他們來做一個長期的我們中央跟地方來合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
937.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
955.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
這個部分我希望你具體會後提供書面資料你們要怎麼具體的來做這個相關的機制給我我們來跟地方來看怎麼樣來研議有一個更好的一個再來大專院校大專院校我想請問他們雖然不是營養午餐的系統但是我們有沒有去關心也有一些餐廳對嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
957.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
980.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以大專院校也有可能因為他周邊的飲食的問題所以所造成有可能他們涉入到這些問題之來對不起學校沒有辦法所有的社區每一家餐廳所以我說希望能夠關注一下嘛大學裡邊的餐廳我們全部有追蹤但是大學外的周邊當然是可能仰賴衛福部嘛去做抽查嘛但是我希望現在還是要提醒大專院校應該要去了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
986.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
997.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
大專院校第一你可以承諾大專院校內的餐廳但是是不是也要了解一下大專院校外請大專院校好好關心這件事學生的安全 健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1005.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1034.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我跟委員的心情是一樣的我們一定要極力來維護我們要掌握啦反正大專院校我們也充分掌握國高中甚至是幼兒園這部分都是特別要注意的跟委員報告就這件事情我們當然不捨有一些不良廠商做了這樣一個壞的示範但是國教署在第一線跟地方政府的合作應該可以肯定好我只是要提醒你大學生也是學生這個部分一定要特別注意當然接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1035.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1057.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我要有請現在所有的官員回到座位上謝謝有請主席幫我邀請我們信義國小教師會常務理事唐一國先生請我們常理事上台部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1059.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1086.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我們依據我們現在立法院委員的手冊我們可以邀請社會的相關人士來委員會來跟大家分享今天我要邀請第一線的教師來跟大家報告來跟大家講第一線的困境第一線的為難也希望部長能夠好好的聽一下老師他們現在的困境他們到底是怎麼樣在第一線奮戰有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1094.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1106.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
主席各位委員各位長官現場的媒體先生小姐大家好感謝委員邀請我來分享教育現場的第一線的真實情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1108.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1130.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我是一名現職的老師 國小老師 年資將近30年但今天我並不是來為教師爭取權益的我是來替學生請命 替教育請命因為教育我失敗 最後受害的不是老師 而是整個國家的下一代 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1131.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1149.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我先分享兩個真實的案例第一個十年前我當導師的時候我有一個學生國小畢業畢業的時候他告訴我說老師我長大之後也要像你一樣當一個國小老師那我請他努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1150.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1178.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
然後經過了三年的國中 三年的高中他真的考上了教育大學那再經過四年的鍛煉他去年進入了教育實習的階段可是就在實習沒有多久他因為提醒一個上課講話比較大聲的一個女學生那個女學生抬起來就對他說看三小 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1181.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1199.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
沒有錯他就說了這三個字我們大家都知道這三個字有多麼的粗魯無力而且還是學生對老師說的他認住了幾秒鐘之後呢他就默默的離開那間教室然後請假回家 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1201.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1228.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
整理思绪第三天回来学校去教育处办理中止实习他不当老师了十年的教师梦当场梦碎他说他不希望未来三十年还在这样的教育环境下工作我想这会不会是现在教师荒的可能原因之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1229.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1251.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那麼第二個故事第二個案例有一位老師在上課的時候用電子黑板就是手滑式觸控式的那種那可能有一點接觸不良第一時間沒有滑出正確的畫面那有一個小男生立刻就說你是幹什麼吃的也是對老師這樣子說 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1255.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1281.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
各位 我们真正要问的是为什么现在越来越多的孩子他会这样子的对待老师呢教室其实它就是一个缩小版的社会各种孩子都有而孩子最容易模仿的就是他的图彩当少数学生可以修入老师而没有明确界限的时候其他孩子就会跟风模仿 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1282.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1291.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
老師原本準備了一場精彩的課卻因為少數學生的干擾而不得不中斷真正受傷的 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1293.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1319.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
其实不是老师其实也不是那些呛瞎的学生真正受伤的是什么是全班二十几个认真学习的孩子今天被浪费的也不是一个老师的上课时间而是一整个班级的学习时间所以我要问了那些守规矩愿意学习的孩子他们的受教权又在哪呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1322.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1345.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我再分享一个案例有关校师会议为什么会有防御式教学有位家长他的教学理念比较开放他常常帮女儿请三天的年假全家出去做家庭式的教学这很好这没有问题那回来之后是不是还要把学校的功课给补上呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1346.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1366.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
但是她沒有那老師依照班規將她的號碼只要班上沒有繳交作業整齊的號碼她就會被記在班上記在黑板上那等你繳交完了之後自己就可以上去把它擦掉其實全國很多班級都是這麼處理的這沒有問題但是這個女生因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1367.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1388.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
佼佼的東西可能太多了他沒有及時補完於是過了幾天之後黑板上只剩他的名字只剩他的號碼那他就覺得心裡不舒服跟他媽媽反應媽媽就跟老師溝通然後說是不是可以擦掉老師就說可以請他補教完就可以擦掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1389.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1411.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那這樣一個堅持班規堅持教學理念的老師呢居然就被媽媽指控為霸凌她的孩子這荒謬嗎一個老師請學生繳交作業居然可以成為霸凌的理由但是更荒謬的在後面 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1413.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1431.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
他告到了學校校師會議還接受了這個老師還被送進校師會議做調查那所以最後當然沒有解聘停聘不續聘那些問題但是他還是強迫被接受兩個月的輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1433.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1443.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那在那裡面當然就是身心煎熬受盡了委屈那從那時候很多老師就開始進行所謂的防禦式教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1445.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1468.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
不是不想教不是不想管教而是不敢管教不是不願意要求而是不敢要求因為沒有人知道下一個被送進校士會議的人會不會是自己這就是教育現場的現況我想請大家注意的是老師他只是想保護自己但真正失去的是孩子的教育品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1470.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1497.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
如果老師因為害怕而不敢管教失去受教權的就是大多數安靜努力守規矩的學生教育它從來就不只是教知識而已它更是教尊重責任規矩與是非那如果老師連維持秩序連繳交作業的要求都要擔心被調查那孩子到底要向誰學習呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1500.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1513.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我記得前幾個月有個團體上街教師團體上街表達訴求那我們教育部長回應我記得很清楚部長說請他們回學校把學生給教好 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1514.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1539.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那我在這裡要向部長報告我們每個老師真的都願意拿出最大的能力把學生教好但是老師們得到的支持和他們所被承擔的責任完全是不成比例的政策沒有支持認真的老師政策沒有支持認真的孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1540.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1566.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
德國教育學家福貝爾的名言他說教育無他為愛與榜樣而已那我認為教育它不只是在教室近距離學生跟老師之間聽到摸到看到才叫做教育才叫做模範政府官員的一眼一行透過媒體也都是孩子們學習的榜樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1567.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1595.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我們今天呼籲的不是讓教師擁有什麼特權而是希望制度真正保護大多數孩子的受教權最後我懇請各位正視基層教師的吶喊正視基層教師教育的困境不要讓認真的老師寒心不要讓認真的孩子失望 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1596.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1624.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
因此我誠懇建議校試會議是否能夠盡快暫停試用全面檢討之後該修就修 該廢就廢讓制度真正回到保障學生社教權的初衷我的報告到此 謝謝大家好 有請主席 請唐老師回去那我們請部長請那個唐老師回座 那有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1631.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1635.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
部長 最近有一則新聞國中生遲到被罰抄課文 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1636.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1661.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
提國培 球場140萬 你知道這件事嗎我知道 我看到了我想部長我們一直在想家庭教育跟學校教育差別到底在哪裡我認為學校教育在於培養人格的一個場所我們在學校端也要盡可能的將它教好也希望它除了社會能夠有所發展但有沒有想過你覺得學生畢業以後就不關教育部的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1661.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1682.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
他是內政部法務部勞動部衛福部的事嗎我想這個部分難道就跟教育部沒有任何關係嗎在今天的書面報告我們指出區分出缺席管理獎懲是為了避免同一行為重複處理若無法使用記警告明確的懲處手段僅能提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1685.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1701.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
勸導書面自省等輔導措施往往面臨輔導成效不彰學生無所畏懼的窘境剛剛我們看到唐老師也提到第一線看到孩子這麼直接在言語上我們要問 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1702.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1717.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
教育部如果今天提醒勸導學生一個不喜歡聽說老師言語羞辱他檢舉老師最終面對校事會議的壓力怎麼辦書面自洗學生拒絕怎麼辦有沒有解方 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1718.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1745.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
各位報告剛才這位老師的一個分享我想我們的想法都一樣的確保學生的受教權然後尊重老師的專業守護老師的一個專業教學我想我們的想法我們現在所有的法條規範我們目標都是一致的那剛才所提的我先回委員幹所關心的那個案例我也非常感謝法院已經判決這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1747.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1768.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
學生跟家長是敗訴的沒有錯那第二個但是過程他們是第二個我也要跟委員報告還有這位老師我們校事法裡面我們怎麼樣去處理不適任教師本來就是依據教事法裡面來訂定的那當然他有他的一個背景你不適任教師還是要有一定的處理機制沒有問題我們現在所以我們感謝委員的支持今年1月12號裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1773.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1790.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我們把過去造成老師的恐慌無謂的干擾這裡邊降到最低剛才也跟大會院報告過我們1月份委員所支持的這一個新的辦法這一個分流包含我們這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1791.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
1819.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
老師主任平時怎麼樣去做好親師溝通協助老師有更大的支持力量這些已經數據告訴我們直接降了50%所以我要談的是說第一線無感我先麻煩你針對我回應我先問你如果書面自省學生拒絕如果他提醒勸導的時候學生不喜歡聽直接說老師言語羞辱他去檢舉老師這方面有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
1819.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
1840.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
我想這一個部分就是我們第一條校長應該要承擔我們在分流裡邊這裡邊我們勿安勿重嘛有教師代表有教長代表有社會公正人士校長主持所以這一個部分就是我們希望在第一階段裡邊就能夠講清楚能夠分流我今天聽出來你還是要想想 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
1841.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
1862.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
如果今天書面的提醒請他自行勸導學生不喜歡不願意配合我們要怎麼辦我們不可能強迫他來部長你說對於長期出學異常你勸不聽的占不得嘉義城主的監獄我們學校所能採取的是特殊管教措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
1862.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
1876.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
如带回管教规划参加高关怀课程心理辅导社会服务还有其他的私性教育这个执行的门槛还有实际的成效为何教育部有没有具体的统计数据 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
1877.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
1892.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我想這個會後我們可以跟委員提供一個書面我相信這些東西具體的數據讓國人都擔憂讓教學現場都覺得可能沒有辦法讓我們能夠有更具體的教育現況希望未來實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
1894.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
1900.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
教學它是一個專業的工作那你說現在要特殊管教措施難道就不會給我們的孩子貼標籤嗎你們在說一人只貼標籤我想這學生學校是用來輔導措施不會貼標籤嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
1912.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
1937.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
難道不會貼標籤嗎標籤的話基本上從學校的立場我們應該把它降到最低如果未有明顯改善初學型的情形那再不得已不能夠加以懲處的規範學校到底能做什麼我們今天就是要探討這個問題好 我就想想這陣子為什麼大家所有家長全部爆炸初學型 掛課 遲到 就有一個高中學生去因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
1939.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
1946.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
缺課了然後學校寄了警告然後我知道不能同一行為是所以我們兩次的處罰所以你們開始規範這個這樣子的事情嗎好我們不是應該是說在那個時刻我們立法院的 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
1954.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
1957.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那我們該怎麼辦有些學生就不在乎他現在的所謂上場任何的教學他不在乎那我們要怎麼想讓其他越受教的好學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
1983.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
1991.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我們又要不得懲處又要維持繼續學校要怎麼做嗎一方面對學生負責避免日後又被批評放任全科啊而且這裡邊我們也這明文是不乏的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
1999.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
2015.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
部長我沒有要你跟我辯論你辯贏我也沒有用我現在就問你現在現在的狀況我們又要不得懲處又要維護秩序我們到底要怎麼樣學校才可以好好的去做我們又怕被批評為放任缺課這樣的制度設計下 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
2017.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
2043.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們教育部認為學校如何實際做到報告中所說的兼顧學生權益保障又支持教師輔導管教需求部長你教大家在更一個現實的問題未來發生學生長期缺課或者在學校校園內外發生傷害的時候社會輿論第一個追究一定是學校為什麼沒有及早介入為什麼沒有採取更積極的管理措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
2044.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
2071.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
所以今天我們在講清水高級中學發生的這個憾事我們都不捨今天楊爸爸在現場我們對於這些長期有問題的孩子我們要怎麼樣實施管教避免日後造成更大的問題部長出了事以後教育部公開第一線替老師背書說他們依法行事還是要回頭再檢討學校機制不夠完備 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
2072.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
2097.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
報告中我們看到高關懷課程對於高關懷的違規情形重大的學生經學校相關會議一決後以抽離式進行課程編班如學生問題類型不同以彈性分組教學模式安排課程那請問一下部長面臨龐大的拒學拒絕學習喔還有情緒的困擾需求現行的資源足夠嗎我最後要問一句現在的學生不尊重時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
2099.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
2115.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
不敬老師日後造成社會問題會由整個社會一同承擔我們希望部長好好想一下今天為什麼我會辦這個報告不只是家長不只是老師所有的委員大家都很關心也希望你能夠好好的檢討這些政策帶來的問題學生團體老師還有地方縣市教育局處來 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
2122.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
2142.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
整個來這個看怎麼樣有一個更與時俱進的一個這樣一個管教方法我想我們一定是支持老師的這無庸置疑我今天不只是用委員的身份我是用家長的身份在擔憂在跟你做溝通我希望你們真的好好想一想我同意老師現在面臨的挑戰確實是比以前大那我們一起來努力謝謝謝謝部長 |