| IVOD_ID |
17039 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17039 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-17 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-17T08:37:29+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-17T11:32:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:54:31 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373dac4602610d545ba28749d5d4e85ec53e914d0d15f34b2c02e10d89d9ca36b6825ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
「如何淘汰不適任教練，建立完善運動教練查核制度」公聽會（事由：立法院教育及文化委員會公聽會） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:37:29 - 11:32:00 |
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嗯嗯 |
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1528.621 |
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1532.407 |
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好 谢谢 |
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1535.629 |
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好今天非常高興可以來召開今天這個如何淘汰不適任教練建立完善運動教練查核制度的公聽會那由於是說現在我們還沒有建立完善的一個教練查核與篩選的制度導致部分曾經有不當行為或是前科的教練仍然能夠在場域裡繼續任教形成而上持續受害的一個風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1563.903 |
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1577.448 |
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所以面對這樣子的一個漏洞我們的制度設計上必須明確地去建立一個把關 調查 退場 淘汰的完整機制在教練進入體系前要有嚴謹的資格審查與背景查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1579.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1603.951 |
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發生爭議或違規時要有獨立且具公信力的調查程序確認不適任的教練應該立即的去退場並且透過資料庫與列管制度防止其再度進入教學場域因此為了真正落實兒少安全的保障避免悲劇一再重演所以我們今天舉辦這樣子的一個公聽會聽取各界的一個寶貴意見以及互相交流討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1604.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1629.69 |
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来作为我们日后国民体育法相关的条文修法的参考那今天的我们的讨论提纲有三点第一个就是我国是否已经建立了完善的教练查核与筛选制度那由于现行各运动项目的专任教练若训练对象为儿少多数能缺乏对于儿少身心发展与教学安全的专业知识与训练 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1630.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1643.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以在運動部成立之後呢應該要強化這個教練對於兒少認知的保護與課程之外呢還要思考如何建立完善的教練查核與篩選制度來確保每一位兒少 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1645.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1663.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
跟兒少互動的教練呢都具備這樣子的一個資格以及安全背景來確保我們的兒少在訓練環境中能夠身心健全的發展那第二個呢就是過去曾經有前科者能能轉場任教體制應該如何把關列管 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1664.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1684.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
與淘汰高風險教練防止學生反覆受害例如就是說像民間也有在討論是否是建立不失任教練資料庫設立兒少工作證制度甚至設立專責單位來強化行政指導與監督效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1686.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1712.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
第三個提綱就是不適任教練在民間俱樂部及社團流竄的問題如何防止監督失靈我想接下來我就先來介紹一下我們今天的與會的貴賓跟我們的委員以及我們的部會首先我先介紹我們的專家學者今天首先第一位是國立體育大學的李在力教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1716.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1741.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
第二位是台北市立大學的王淑華教授第三位是人本教育基金會的馮喬蘭執行長第四位是台灣足球發展協會的石明錦理事長第五位是中華民國專業教練協會的李俊勇副秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1745.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1770.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第六位是台北市民族時鐘的許秀敏專任運動教練第七位是2025年威廉波特冠軍的東元國小棒球隊的賴敏蘭總教練第八位一樣是威廉波特冠軍的東元國小棒球隊的駱振宇教練第九位是運動產業協會的徐振賢理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1775.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1797.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
第十位是台北教育大學體育系的胡天梅教授第十一位是中華民國奧運人協會的李建熙秘書長接下來我們介紹一下我們今天列席的部會運動部次長黃啟黃 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1803.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1829.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
運動部經濟司司長謝富秀運動部經濟司科長夏淑蓉運動部法規會的執迷蔡維旭運動部全民署署長房瑞文運動部全民署專委施程 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1834.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1860.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
運動部全民署助理謝家盧教育部國民與學前教育署署長彭富源教育部國教署副組長薛承佑教育部國教署科長林宇珍教育部人事處科長楊婉婷 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1863.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1874.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那為了大家都能夠順利的表達意見我們今天做如下的處理就是每位貴賓發言的時間為七分鐘在第六分鐘時我們會有鈴聲提醒七分鐘結束時會有一個結束鈴聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1878.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1900.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那專家學者發言時會以簽名的先後順序為準現場發言及書面資料立法院會作為記錄刊登公報那第三呢就是在場的立法委員如果有意見要發表的話請於10點前來登記那我們也會在會議中進行穿插並以在場委員登記順序發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1901.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1928.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那如果委員要發言的話請到主席台登記那現在呢我們先請運動部就現行的規定執行狀況相關問題提出說明我們現在請次長那時間是你幾分鐘時間是6分鐘那這個運動部結束之後呢就會請教育部來說明那時間也是6分鐘好 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1932.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1936.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
主席各位委員各位女士各位先生大家好 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1937.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1966.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
今天大院教育及文化委员会召开会议本部应邀列席并就如何淘汰不适任教练建立完善运动教练查核制度提纲提出报告并得聆听各位委员及现场的学者专家们的着见深感荣幸承蒙各位委员长期对体育运动事务的关心进行持续的指正与支持以下警救委员所寻淘汰不适任教练 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1966.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1985.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
建立完善運動教練查核等面向做下列的說明第一 有關建立完善的教練查核與篩檢制度學校專利運動教練為各級學校聘任之編制人員屬於教育人員其遴選及查核已經有機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1986.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2001.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
根据专任运动教练聘任管理办法已经明定学校在聘任专任运动教练之前应该查询其有无该办法所列之不得聘任之情形以聘任者应定其查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2002.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2025.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
二 學校專業運動教練若有疑似不適任之情形由學校依規定進行通報經調查屬實認定由學校至各教育場域不適任人員通報及查詢系統登載並依專業運動教練聘任管理辦法辦理解聘不續聘停聘等事宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2027.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2044.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
第二有关特定体育团体合法是教练证特定体育团体有一个定定一个资格检定及管理办法以下简称教练管理办法已经明定了消极的资格例如他如果有性贫或者是体罚等不当的行为不得申请 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2045.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2064.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
教练资格是检定另外针对已经持证的教练我们会进行每周的查询并借接法务部及卫福部的资料库进行查询如果有媒体报道也会及时的系统去遮蔽并要求协会召开纪律委员会去审查 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2065.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2076.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
如查證屬實屬於註銷的教練證並含資地方政府轉資轄區各單位基於體罰 霸凌 性平等不法事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2077.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2102.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
运动部的立场是零容忍并且在今年的10月29号已经含文特定体育团体教练从事运动指导工作的时候如果有不当的行为或其行为违反相关之规定要求确实依据相关的规定办理不得有延宕处理事情如果有这样的情况本部会依据既有之法定 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2103.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2127.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
针对辅导的协会做该有的处理第三有关民间团体或训练场馆等从事儿少工作者如果对儿少有不当的情势对待依据现行的儿少法规范应该由地方政府按卫福部所公布的办法去执行 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2130.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2152.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
其中如果有看到這樣的情況他們就應該依據兒少法第49條之規定來做處理二 有關曾經犯有前科仍轉場任教的體制要如何把關列管與淘汰高風險的教練這件事情我們目前有七大方向在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2153.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2180.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
首先是本部每年通报地方政府做各个专业运动教练的查核并根据政府的公告以落实专业运动教练的政兆管理第二有关于特定体育团体教练之检查应查询教练办法当中有无其消极的资格已取得教练资格者也会定期的去查核过去每个月的查核现在已经调整为每周都在做这样的查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2181.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2201.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
根据现行的机制如果查询的时候如果发生到有这样的情况者我们就会立即的要求各单位去做相对的处理我们如果做到我们会透过我们的行政手段包括停止拨款减轻经费的方式来做处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2202.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2215.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
公告不適任教練名單目前正朝著法制化的方向來處理並於修法前已經參考了衛福部公布醫事人員性別事件專區的方式來處理為了建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2216.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2239.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
安全的運動環境我們已經在上個禮拜發函到明年要辦理的全國中等學校運動會全國大專運動會的主辦單位或地方政府要確實的根據上訴的規定去查核所有的工作人員如果需要我們必須要停止他在這個地方的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2241.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2259.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
至于在课程上面,我们已经做了公版的报告,希望能够让这一类的教材的内容能够列入各单项协会,各个特定体育团体在进行教育的时候,就此主题对所有的教练们进行教育。 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2261.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2272.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
至於有關兒童工作證的部分目前因涉及衛福部的兒童及少年福利及權益保障法目前我們會配合的衛福部持續的做這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2273.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2297.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
法規的修訂與辦理至於第三如何防止不適任教練在民間俱樂部流竄的問題衛福部我們會參考衛福部設有違反裁罰專區去公告民間團體可以去查詢這樣子的人二專業運動教練的部分我們依據現行的辦法當中去查核我還可以繼續嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2299.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2312.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
考量教练从事指导工作有犯伤害罪性侵害等事由这是非常非常大的一个影响为了避免其透过申请教练资格检定取得教练证进而取得 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2313.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2335.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
据而获得教练的工作职务教练管理办法已经明定其消极的资格这类的人不得申请教练资格检定针对已经持证者每周会去查询希望透过这样的方式能够让更多的人知道哪些人是不适任甚至不得再聘任 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2336.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2358.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第四,为了辅导全国性体育团体办理维护儿童少年运动的权益,已在年度的补助核定函中说明了,活动若涉及儿少运动员参与活动,其活动之教练、裁判、工作人员或经指派任务邀请的人员均需具备相应职务之证照或资格。 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2359.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2382.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
並因主動至運動部網站查詢具有合格教練證及不適任教練專區避免有違反上開法律規定或涉及性別平等爭議事件的人員參與以上的報告敬請大約委員持續給予本部支持與指教謝謝謝謝那我們接下來請國教署署長時間一樣是六分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2390.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2406.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
謝謝主席各位委員各位學者專家大家早安運動教練是學生在體育訓練上的重要指導者當然也在學生的品格還有身心發展的過程中是扮演關鍵的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2407.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2433.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
运动部成立之后与本部也会持续地共同为学生建立安全专业跟具有信任度的学校运动体育环境今天的主题我就整体而言有包含各类运动教练的整个管理以及相关事件发生时他的调查 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2434.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2458.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
處理、通報做個簡要的說明首先就整體各類的運動教練目前大家最熟知的包含兩類的專任運動教練跟外聘運動教練這邊大概都分別有其資格、任用跟管理制度的授權執法的立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2460.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2473.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那一旦發生了相關需要調查處理通報的相關事件時若是性平的案件會依性別平等相關的法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2474.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2492.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
如果是不當管教體罰霸凌會有依解聘辦法第61條第一項或第二項的規範來進行准用的這個調查在調查之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2494 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2522.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
會就有一些需要進一步判斷或予以通報在流程上會經過如果是專任運動教練會經過學校的相當老師的教評會教練這邊會有教練評審委員會的決定那如果是外聘的那個是用學校他有契約的程序來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2524.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2554.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
那麼在整體通報上完成的調查那麼我們希望剛剛主席也有特別注意到如果沒有通報那麼很容易在別的地方如果再讓他上線的話那前面的處理就很可惜也會傷害後面的學生所以要非常的嚴正的要求要進行通報但是通報有一個系統這個系統教育部已經建立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2555.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2579.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以在整體而言如果有發生這樣的一個情勢不管專任運動教練或外聘運動教練可以到剛剛所提的系統來進行登載學校在禁用時也要進行查詢剛剛次長也有提到他們非常用心會定期地去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2581.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2600.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這整套機制那也在流程上看起來是有建立但是在管理面相關單位包含地方政府還有執行單位的學校以及監督單位的兩部都以用心想要讓他更周延但我們想一定有很多地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2601.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2625.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
需要與時俱進那今天有很多的學者專家都是我們平常非常景仰那今天邀請來希望也能夠給兩部多一點指導那今年8月28號之後政院有公告就兩部相關的分工以往以來體育署已經建立了非常多想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2627.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2644.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
預防甚至阻擋一些不適應的狀況進到校園中那麼有一些規範那兩部也當時是兩署或是在同樣教育部內那做了很好的分工跟處理那現在運動部成立之後8月28號 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2646.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2671.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
政院就整體看到這個重要性也對一些工作那麼有所釐清運動部在接手這些原來體育署的相關工作之後那麼也會依政院的公告在處理那本部也會依政院的公告相關的分工跟運動部做最好最全力的搭配 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2672.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2691.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們認為學生在訓練的過程中完全不能有剛剛所提的不當或體罰或霸凌甚至性別事件的發生每一個孩子都是我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2692.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2713.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
重要以及以後的人才每一個孩子在受教育階段或是受訓練的階段都要得到最高的保障因此我們會跟運動部在相關的法制上如果還需要更健全再提請與會的學者專家給我們指導以上報告謝謝大家知道聆聽請會與討論謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2720.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2739.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
謝謝謝謝那接下來我們再補充介紹一下今天出席的專家學者喔這個台灣女足球員公會的焦佳紅秘書長還有台南一中的郭富奇主任好那接下來呢我們邀請國立體育大學的李在力教授發言那 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2756.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2767.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
主席 各位委員還有各位官員 專家學者跟各位先進大家早安 大家好我做一個PPT來跟大家做一下說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2769.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2792.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
其實我們現在運動部的網頁上面是可以找到這三個查詢的系統第一個是合格教練證照的查詢第二個是涉及違法事件不適任教練資訊專區以及在運動愛台灣的平台上面也可以找到其他的運動專業人員的相關資料不過我覺得現在的問題是在於這三個系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2793.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2812.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
它的内容其实广度不够然后内容里面的资讯量其实是有限的而且不是一个单一窗口可以被查询的一个方便的状态所以我觉得确实我们查询系统是有一些空间可以继续来进行改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2813.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2831.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
那有關於今天所談到的議題我個人會覺得我們可能需要知道一下運動場域因為我們今天看起來原本的會議資料裡面比較集中在學校這個領域裡面但是運動的場域除了學校還有機關 招呼機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2833.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2852.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
比如说还有村里社区职场运动场馆运动中心健身房甚至街道比如说我们今天召集人以前在台北市特工盟的时候有推儿童街道游戏或者是我们非常常见的路跑活动还有一些是海洋水域空域山林等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2853.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2881.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那我们参与的运动的参与者除了学生跟学生运动员之外也包含了一般的民众我们市民的运动员当然还有高龄者身心不变者或者是LGBT Plus的或者是运动的专业人员甚至是运动的从业人员等等所以我觉得我们在思考这个问题的时候也许可以不要限制在学校里面也不要限制在儿少这个领域里面 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2883.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2905.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
第三个我想跟大家报告的是法规的妥适性我们现在在国民体育法第六章特定体育团体的第31条里面有去提到运动教练跟运动裁判但是我们的运动教练跟运动裁判并不只限于特定体育团体其他的体育团体也都会有运动教练跟运动裁判的存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2906.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2925.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那所以我个人觉得那我们在国民体育法第十条里面有去定义的体育专业人员的相关的规定好那在国民体育法的十四则第四条有去定义体育专业人员是什么所以我觉得这个法规有必要去做一些整理或者是整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2927.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2949.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
那我的底下是我的一些建議第一個是能夠證明為運動專業人員那可能可以包含我們的運動教練運動裁判專業運動教練以及我們現在在我們實施細則裡面所提到救生員國民抵制人指導員運動防護員山域向導潛水指導員漆彈活動指導員武動力飛行運動專業人員等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2954.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2974.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
然後在管理機制裡面我們現在在國民體育法裡面比較注重在進修檢定那我覺得我們可能還可以去增加選任查核跟退場的機制那這一部分的機制等一下會再跟大家做報告那有關於選任查核跟退場的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2976.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2998.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我的建議是能夠借盡教育場域不適應人員通報及查詢的系統能夠來建立運動場域不適應人員通報及查詢系統因為在運動場地裡面可能會造成參與者有一些權利上受損的不必然是教練他也有可能是其他參與者也有可能是從業人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2999.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3019.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以我个人建议是能够定义是运动场域那这个也许是一个比较负向表列所以我的建议是能够有限度的被查阅那这样可以达到查核有落实安全有保障那第二个建议的系统是运动专业人员查询系统 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3020.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3036.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那它是一個正向表列建議可以公開查詢那也可以告訴我們的大眾如果有包含我們的產業當我們有需要聘任專業人員的時候應該要聘任擁有證照的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3037.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3059.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那我們就可以要求各個協會或體育團體把這些有證照人員的名單能夠匯入我們的系統那如果他是一個不適任的人員他的證照會被註銷所以他就不會出現在我們的查詢就是運動專業人員查詢系統裡面他不會被查詢到 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3060.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3079.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
它就不应该被任用所以这是选任查跟退场也许可以做的一个正向一个负向的表列那当然这个不好意思运动专业人员的查询系统可以帮助我们的运动专业人员可以被看见被找到增加他的就业的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3081.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3105.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那接下來是退場的標準是來自於我們不適任人員的定義我們現在大概比較聚焦在提罰、罷免、確定之後但性平案件的確定或是有一些有罪判定的確定也許都可以作為我們不適任人員的定義那這是有關於法規修訂的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3106.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3130.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
第一個是在第十條裡面建立可以增加選任查核及退場的制度然後能夠在第二項裡面把運動體育專業人員定義為運動專業人員那也可以增加教育訓練的這個項目然後增加第三款中央主管機關應建制運動專業人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3132.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3145.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
查核查詢系統及運動場域不適任人員通報及查詢系統以促進運動環境之安全及保護運動參與者之權益那用法規授權給運動部來進行後續的規劃然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3151.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3178.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
接下來是國民體育法的實施細則裡面也可以去修訂運動教練運動把運動教練運動專業教練跟運動裁判把它納進來運動專業人員的範圍裡面那如果可以這樣子修訂也許我們第31條就可以廢除掉就不用在特定體育團體的專章裡面去談到運動教練跟運動裁判的資格檢定 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3179.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3197.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所以這次以上我的一些看法跟建議提供給各位先進參考 謝謝謝謝教授接下來我們有請這位勢力大學的王淑華教授時間一樣是7分鐘 謝謝主席 各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3208.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3225.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
前輩大家好今天本來應該是邱偉榮老師那因為他出國所以請我幫忙這邊那其實剛剛講的通報系統其實已經有5個在這邊了那我以教練的身份來講我希望會有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3226.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3252.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
通報系統跟查核系統因為現在在外面來講的話其實俱樂部蠻多的個人的教練也蠻多的以我們學校為主其實我們那個足球場每天都有很多教練可是也有外國人蠻多的那我們也不知道他這些教練是怎麼來的然後他們有沒有審核機制然後對兒童的有沒有傷害到那 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3253.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3271.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
尤其是另外一个就是现在有大概七八十个一个单项协会那如果他可以做一个整合刚讲由跨部会或由数位部来讲一个整合这个部分因为其实现在刚看来的话就是你协会有没有通报那协会单一协会 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3273.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3300.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
有沒有這個機制在這邊因為我們現在目前老師收到就是說OK某某教練他可能到有性侵的部分那可能不予聘任但是他有沒有真的一個機制在那邊讓我們可以上去做一個通報跟查核的一個部分這我是希望可以做一個那個建議那另外剛剛有講到精修部分我可能想到了我來學校之前我想到可能就是預防機制這一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3302.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3326.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
因为进修的部分其实像以我们运动教练证的话其实我们每四年要休息48小时的一个课程那专业运动教练的话目前来讲是每年要有18个小时的一个进修课程但是因为现在我们看到的是比如说初级运动教练中级的部分其实他们在审核机制的时候只有比如说大专 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3327.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3350.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
以上畢業或比如說要修習相關的知識的課程那我要想說如果他們要認證之前有沒有可能再增加一個資能課程就是比如說我們講的性平的部分性騷擾的部分然後霸凌的部分讓至少就是老師他們有一個學習或認知機會不要去做到這些違反的一個事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3354.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3381.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
另外一個部分其實我們一直在講說性平這個部分在教育學程來講其實不是只有運動教練其實教師也蠻多的可是我們在教育學程課程裡面其實我們也看不到所謂的比如說性平的部分或霸凌學齡的這個部分所以這個部分是不是可以如果真的要也可以請教育部或跨部會去一個討論是不是有這個部分要把它加到課程裡面以上 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3386.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3398.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
謝謝那接下來我們再補充介紹一下台灣運動好事協會的劉柏君理執行長好 那下一位我們發言是陳培語委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3405.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3421.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
好 謝謝主席回到教文非常的開心那我要先說非常感謝昭緯安排這次的公聽會不過剛聽了兩個部會的報告我要說非常遺憾因為等一下我要講的我保證你們都聽過但是你們決定用很消極的行政作為來面對我等一下要講的所有個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3422.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3436.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
第一個從地府上任之後我們第一個處理的案件是連江縣角力的教練性騷案這個教練性騷案被確認了確認了之後呢校方只給予申戒然後讓這個教練繼續在教育局服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3437.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3457.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
重點是這個教練還繼續上場當裁判請問所有的學生看到這個教練情何以堪到2023年9月台南有一個藝術團隊雖然是民間的補習班相關課程但是他長期利用招攬學生上課然後到宮廟去做表演然後持續多年的對多位 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3458.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3480.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
超過十位以上的女學生有各式各樣的性犯罪細節我就不再說我相信大家都非常的清楚相關行政單位到了11月我們發現台北市五人足球教練因為不當對待兒少接受兒少法裁罰公告姓名可是這個被公告姓名的人依然在校園還有體育署當時的體育署所主辦的賽事中橫行出入 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3481.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3499.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
體育署當時說這個教練沒有教練證不關我們的事就完美的切割但是這個人他現在依然在相關協會進出甚至接受相關的體育賽事的補助當中他都有相關角色這些不適任教練我在立法院的質詢當中我都已經多到自己都不知道該怎麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3501.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3518.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我不知道這些教練所謂不適任教練在體育署過去的政策視野當中是怎麼看待的不論是性騷霸凌不當管教大部分都是小過深切輕輕放下重點是他們會繼續回到教育現場因為有一個非常完美的證照保護系統讓這些人繼續在現場流竄 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3521.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3546.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我所謂的完美是指的是對這些犯罪人非常的完美但是對我們的學生非常的不公平非常的不正義甚至非常的不恰當當我們口口聲聲說要保護兒少的時候這些主責行政機關的大人卻是對這些加害者輕輕放下甚至在民間揭露已久的松山高中籃球隊的教練孩子們都指正立立相關的成人選手也都指正立立但沒有作為就是沒有作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3547.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3564.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
還有影片在英哥工商的排球隊拿球打小孩這件事情相關影片網路上大家也都看得非常清楚依然沒有作為不調查或是深切了事再看下一張我剛剛只是舉了其中一些例子世大女族案 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3565.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3566.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這些都是在我們辦公室處理過的體育陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3586.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3609.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我不知道現場大人你們聽了有什麼感觸我自己身為兩個小孩的媽媽我早早的發現在體育現場就有非常多的家庭因為沒有好的文化資源沒有好的法律常識他們的孩子在體育團體當中就是受害者 弱勢的那一方而所有大人完美的系統包圍這些加害者繼續加害我們現場的小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3609.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3627.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我非常認同剛兩位老師說的當然不要只有兒少可是如果我們光是面對最弱勢的一群兒少都是用這樣的態度我不知道後續的運動部要如何看待過去在體育署時代留下來的問題更不要說現在所有體育署的人全部直接升官到運動部去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3627.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3643.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
不要告訴我這些你們沒有記憶不要告訴我這些跟你們一點關係都沒有如果這個國家要承諾保護兒少就請你們大人拿出實質作為過去的體育署都說這是個案啦委員這是商業機制啦我們零容忍部長也曾經說他覺得非常的羞辱 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3644.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3672.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
看到這樣的案件當時的教育部部長可是家長們看到的是這些教練一再的被縱容然後在民間流傳剛剛有一位老師也講到俱樂部的問題還有深屆交差我想要跟大家講一個系統裡面現在最大的困境如果陳培瑜這個教練曾經對某些小孩做出性侵性騷判定成立之後我會被某一個單項協會教練證除名除名之後就看不到我陳培瑜的名字了可是如果今天陳培瑜換考另外一個教練證 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3673.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3682.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
還考過了 我可以在全民運動的場域家長是查不到陳佩玉犯過這個錯的我要告訴大家 往下 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3683.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3703.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
在這兩年我們辦公室不是只有處理個案最後還是要回到法規面來看我們提出過修法建議跟政策建議我們提醒體育署要兒少工作證當時的教育部長也承諾會往下推我要拜託現在的里洋運動部長不管是跟衛福部還是教育部要積極的討論兒少工作證雅琳委員也有提出修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3704.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3730.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
而面對兒少教練的問題下一張我認為修法跟有效增能必須要雙管齊下所以在去年我們辦公室也積極要求彰實教育部體育署要開相關的兒少職能課程我不確定這樣的課程成效是什麼但我很感謝至少有走出第一步我希望後續在運動部要持續甚至要昇華下一張我談了這麼多我覺得大家應該可以感覺到我的憤怒跟痛心 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3732.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3752.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
如果過去體育署你們告訴我因為元額不夠 預算不足那我不知道升格之後的運動部如何看待兒少政策這個是現在運動部的分工我們來看一下不管是運動部本部或是全民運動署本署完全看不到有對應兒少的運動政策我要問 請問兒少運動政策對應的相關組織到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3756.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3770.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
如果還要繼續用體育署過去那個時代在面對所謂不適任教練的態度繼續放在運動部裡面我不知道除了我剛剛列舉的那些案件之外我們還會有多少兒少受害然後繼續用個案繼續縱容繼續申戒放下輕輕了事 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3777.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3805.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
講到這麼多不適應教練的問題喔這件事情我要公開說我們辦公室開過非常多次會議我們把體育署跟法務部找來一起我們問法務部如果用政府資訊公開法的邏輯對於我剛說的那些教練可不可以基於社會公益公告這些被撤銷教練證的人的名單也就是所謂負面表列這件事情這個體育署的法規會說不行啦委員這有個資的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3806.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3827.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
可是法務部都已經明函寫了基於社會公益可以政府資訊公開但體育署依然置之不理我要問運動部你們接下來如何看這個問題所有因為相關不當對待體罰性犯件的相關案件的不適任教練名單到底要不要公開你們只是為了保障大人的工作權嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3829.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3857.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
當全民運動署接下來可能每年有非常多預算要去支援全民運動的現場有非常多不知道發生過什麼事情的教練就在現場每天跟我們的孩子相處在一起請問運動部要繼續縱容嗎所以我不知道會不會是同一批法規委員繼續從體育署到了運動部去而法規委員你們還要用一樣的解釋嗎法務部都已經告訴過你們了法務部也有給之前的體育署相關函文 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3859.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3882.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
非常沉痛时间不多我再次说修法跟政策并行请以儿少运动教练证搭配儿少教练职能课程正式坊间有非常多没有持证的教练存在的事实让儿少教练监理的死角降到最低再来针对劣迹教练就是我刚刚说这些做出非常多不当对待体罚霸凌性犯罪的这些教练 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3883.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3902.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
在修法之前請你們原用政府資訊公開法的精神先公佈教練證照遭到撤銷的名單可以不負理由我可以接受可是請公告請讓我們家長上網查的時候剛有一位老師說三大系統老師在你說那三大系統完全找不到被撤照教練的名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3903.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3928.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我們的家長不知道這個人有沒有做過什麼對兒少不當的事情因為體育署過去完美的保護了這些人我再次強調完美的保護了這些人最後要拜託運動部我剛說了你們新的法規組織裡面關於兒少的專責單位兒少運動相關政策不知道會放在哪些你們的部門裡頭我要拜託落實運動部以國民的福祉而不是以奪牌為目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3929.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3951.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
昨天總統在公開場合說要成立兒家署我們非常樂意看到這個主持我要問衛福部都已經知道兒少相關事務必須要一個署來應對而運動部難道不用以兒少為目標去成立專責的單位來討論嗎以上 謝謝謝謝陳佩玉委員那接下來我們有請劉淑冰委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3962.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3977.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
好 謝謝主席然後也謝謝召委陳秀寶他安排了這樣子的一個題目為全民所重視的這個議題當然也謝謝今天在場的各位專家學者然後來現場提供我們做立法者的一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3978.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3996.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那針對如何淘汰不適任教練跟建立完善運動教練制度的查核因為運動教練他長期的近距離的去接觸耳哨權力不對等然後容易發生性貧跟性侵害的這樣的風險然後需要強化這個保護機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4000.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4014.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
本席有以下的主張尤其是在我們現在看到的是運動部跟體育運動部跟教育部他們有提出來專案裡面的報告當中但是我特別要對運動部這邊提出了一個很重要的譴責 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4016.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4028.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
雖然現在有提出來但是目前就是對不適任的教練的這個公告的機制就是因為缺乏法源基礎而沒有公告那造成了非常多的風險繼續在發生那因此我強調是說第一個必須要正視制度漏洞導致兒少受害的這個現況那現在的這個制度絕對沒有辦法有效的阻隔不適任教練他的跨場域的這個任教那形成了非常重大的一個風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4046.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4069.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
依照公聽會的討論問題主要有這三點第一個是因應教練他的資格跟兒少保護的關聯性低所以必須要強調到兒少保護的這樣的一個課程所以運動部要強化這個兒少的認知跟保護的課程給教練並建立系統化的查核制度第二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4070.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4090.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
曾對於有前科或是不當行為者他仍可以轉場或是改名到重辦運動的現場這樣的事情必須就顯示出來跨體系的防護跟退場機制不完整急需要建立不適任教練的一個資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4091.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4098.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那第三個呢 特別是針對到民間的俱樂部他的監管是非常鬆散但我們上個禮拜都已經請了運動部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4102.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4124.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
政府次長來針對所謂的協會的管理這部分的確呈現到非常大的問題那另外一個問題就在於教練他測證他是由運動部來處理那教學登記的是由地方政府來輔導但中間缺乏明確的教練進場的查核規範導致家長根本無法得知教練的背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4125.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4147.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那對現在有的這個修法提案呢本席也提出了三項的補強第一項呢必須要防範到惡意的檢舉那這邊可以借盡教師法對於沒有設防衛機制這一部分呢他如果沒有設計這個機制的話呢制度呢恐怕會被濫用那傷害無辜的教練跟專業他的聲譽那應該要規定檢舉人呢應該提出具體 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4153.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4168.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
具名的而且應該有提出具體證據那惡意的或者不實的檢舉者的應該要負到法律責任避免成為制度成為運動版的這個校式會議的翻版那第二個呢在應該考慮到 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4169.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4194.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
台北市在地方政府上實際上有一個已經有實例出現了他們有一個幼兒園不適任人員的公告專區是可以查詢的大家也可以現在馬上上台北市政府去看到那這個專區裡面的它這個成功公告就把公告之後的這個出現到有這樣不適任的被發生傷害的這種事件就大幅的減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4197.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4204.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
該專區具備主動查詢的功能並在法律授權下永久公告教練不適合 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4207.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4235.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
應在法律授權下永久的公告涉及性別及不當對待者的資訊運動部應該參照這樣的模式在禁訴在把法治完備的情況之下建置運動教練不適任人員的公告專區目前我們也看到在運動部的報告當中有提到說他們要把查到法治化去處理11月今年的9月3號這部分也要把裁判書等等再加上我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4236.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4254.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
地方政府台北市都可以做到運動部依照這樣的依照前例去進行也不會是大問題那這個部分就應該把公開教練的姓名的證號不適任的室友還有涉及機構及他登記號等資訊呢永久的保留裁罰的處理資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4256.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4273.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
第三個 應該強化檢舉委員跟調查委員的迴避機制避免出現求援兼裁判的利益衝突調查委員必須由中立專業人士組成並公開調查程序與證據基礎確保程序上的正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4277.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4306.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
在具体的修法方面本席提出了三项建议第一个是修正国民体育法建立儿少保护背景的查核制度运动部应该每月的借接法务部跟卫福部及地方政府的资料库并参照澳洲的模式来建立儿少工作的认证要求教练要修毕课程通过查核才来取得这样的证照 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4307.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4332.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
第二個是要建置不適任運動人員跟教練的查詢系統與公告專區納入教練的資料不適任的行為類型處分內容跟公告期間基於公共利益的一個需求在政府的公開資訊這部分進行應該其實都不是問題的並提供關鍵字搜尋永久公開才能達到建立一個安全的運動環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4334.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4354.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
第三 應該建立獨立透明的調查程序由行政 法律 兒少保護跟運動界來組成運動教練調查委員會 明定檢舉的事項 作業還有審查時程跟調查的期限 也要落實迴避規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4356.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4363.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
同時對於惡意檢舉者規定法律責任包含無告罪的追究名譽損害賠償跟列管的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4365.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4386.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
最後我們要呼籲這個制度必須同時達到兩個目標第一個就談判真正不適任的教練而且要避免這個制度被利用作為報復或者私鬥的工具台北市的幼兒園不適任人員的公告的經驗證明公開透明的機制能夠保護兒少而迴避 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4388.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4413.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
和迴避規範獨立調查與惡意檢舉的責任則另外也保障了程序正義本席期待運動部能夠在修法當中參考到各方面的基建尤其今天特別我們立法院召開了這樣子的公聽會就是希望把各種的機制把它納入起來等到未來在修法的時候達到真正去建立一個真正安全透明而且可靠的一個運動環境好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4418.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4420.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
謝謝 那接下來我們請人民教育基金會的馮喬安執行長 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4429.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4453.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
委員還有各位先進 大家好我是人本交易經營會的執行長喬蘭很感謝立法院有召開這次的公聽會討論這個不適任教練的淘汰也期待說在這次的公聽會結束之後我們相關的保護兒少的各種措施可以很快的具體的啟動我們接著就就人本交易經營會在第一線的食物現場所看到的一些現象跟問題提出一些討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4455.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4481.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
首先就是說我們在我們處理的個案的經驗當中常發現事實上這些行為可能在一般教室如果這樣做就會當成是違法然後會被送教評會來處理可是一旦是教練這樣做的時候就會用這是一個訓練或者是體能的訓練等等的作為藉口包括2020年的游泳隊的事情就是教練是用浮板去丟小孩的頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4482.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4500.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
但是呢那個教評會的調查就是學校的調查就是說教練是向水道丟啦不是向人丟只是為了提醒他然後另外在2021年的這個案子呢就是學校調查學校就說這是呢屬於這個學生可以體適的可以負荷的範圍啦算是體罰跑了17圈操場 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4502.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4514.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那接著呢這個案例2021年這個案例我想是大家心目中都是無法揮不可能把它放到不應該放到的案子就是有孩子因為7歲小孩被摔100次的雙吊銹結果他過世了 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4519.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4539.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
同樣的我們發現另外一個問題是在目前現有機制當中有一些他很明顯有他的行為有問題的教練他卻還是可以在他的領域當中進行教練的工作或教練的身份跟角色包括就是這個桌球隊教練他後來就認知到一個乒乓球教師了雖然他被解聘 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4540.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4564.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
桃園清溪國中的棒球隊教練他也被解聘但是呢在解聘期間他還是可以在高雄成為義工用義工的名義擔任教練然後還可以帶隊比賽跟指導那同時屏東這位籃球隊的教練呢他是違反性騷擾防治法可是他2017年11月到2023年2月22日都還可以在學校擔任籃球教練在這過程當中他還是有對女童猥褻請問這些責任誰要負 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4566.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4584.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
台中的教練的這個案子呢最近也是上了媒體了大家也看到這個狀況呢當時政府本來機制是說我們機制已經有可以勾忌了有勾忌的機制了但是校方疏忽了沒有去勾忌那誰來負這個責任誰會追究這個責任誰會要求勾忌要完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4587.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4609.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
在2023年,人本教育基金會跟陳培宜委員,我們有舉辦了一個公聽會,雖然這個公聽會不是由招委招開的,所以它就是一個民間跟委員一起招開的一個公聽會,那這個公聽會當中呢,其實我們就已經提出來了,就是在國民教育法應該要明文禁止身心傷害跟不當訓練,那同時要建立制度,尤其在針對要帶兒少的教練, |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4610.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4632.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
要處理兒少運動的教練他應該要有一個加簽制度能夠確保他對兒少的身心的了解以及他能夠遵守兒少教練應該有的基本的倫理的準則同時我們也認為不適應的運動的人員應該要處理機制跟追蹤同時因為傷害兒童而被解聘的教練他不應該也 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4634.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4655.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
他不應該隨便可以再繼續從事兒童的訓練的工作那同時呢這個處理的範圍應該包含非特定體育團體運動場館民間俱樂部訓練的班級通通要放進來因為我們必須以兒少為中心來思考這件事而不是以各行政部門的分工職責而把大部分的兒少漏掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4658.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4678.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
同時在2024年2月監察院也針對台中柔道案有提出一個糾正報告同時相對應的包括教育部等等又有回應做了哪些相關的處理所以各位可以看到在這一年的設施改善情形當中會有一個教練證照查詢系統出現了在2020年 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4679.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4704.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
但是呢 當時監察委員以及民間都要求說當藉由政府場館來進行各種運動訓練的時候應該要列館啊 不能夠當成好像是個人的事情那我們在相關的規範上 只有把技職教學者放進來為什麼是技職教學者才放進來 因為當時是柔道案件我們不能因為柔道案件把全部的運動項目納進來一起照顧 一起處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4707.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4725.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
接著我們也很感謝體育署運動部他們有弄了一些就是相關的知能的進修課程但是我們也確實在教授的教學影片當中發現有些講師他的說法會說盡量不要讓我們在投影片上這些身體體法的樣態出現在你的課程課表中 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4726.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4748.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這些樣態是什麼呢?是教育部的輔導管教辦法措施裡面所提到的體罰的樣態。講師的說法反而是說,你難免會做出類似的動作,但是不要列上去。問題是說,體罰的問題是來自於它是出於處罰為目的所進行的。出於處罰為目的進行的行為不可以稱之為體能訓練。 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4751.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4777.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
接着我们看到2023年南英商工的案子这个案子其实当时在新闻上也是有蛮大篇幅的报道因为教练的作为他的作为已经是造成了儿少全法的违法同时因为霸凌成立被解聘包括他有连坐法当时教练在调查报告当中他的说法是说用篮球丢球员是正常的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4778.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4793.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那這些都是訓練的一環是要培養他們的團隊精神那目前這個教練是被解聘了而且我們會看到社會局因為這個教練違反兒少全法於是他有公告然後同時秀出他的名字劉秀黃 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4795.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4823.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我們也看到在法務部裡面因為他被公開判決了就是說他被經由檢察官提起公訴判決他的強制罪尤其徒刑五個月而他也被公告了但是我們在相關的查詢系統裡不知道這個教練曾經違反過這些兒少選法以及強制罪的問題這就是我目前檢核系統的問題同時我們也看到在花蓮的李建維教練他目前沒有教練證 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4824.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4848.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
但他仍然在公立的場所裡頭進行相關的教練工作而且他還跟傅坤祺委員辦公室的主任一起來剪彩甚至在今年的5月他還可以帶團去日本參加羽球比賽但是他所犯的罪是什麼他是猥褻是性侵為什麼我們可以這麼的輕忽 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4850.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4872.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那同時這些的狀況是不好意思我很快的結束我的談話同時這幾個教練的狀況是他是嚴重體罰但他可以立刻被該校要聘用雖然說經過教聘會他已經被終止聘約有終局停聘可是這個被終止聘約的蔡教練被解聘之後他在馬上下個學期就應聘回原學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4873.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4880.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
是被家長發現了之後呢被抗議然後才沒有聘用的為什麼我們有這麼多漏洞可以發生這麼多事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4882.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4910.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那事實上到目前為止從2023年之後我們會看到當時的訴求目前的狀況是如何當時訴求希望能夠立法明文禁止運動訓練中國身心傷害目前沒有然後目前也沒有強制要求我們的兒少要接觸兒少的教練要具備對兒少運動訓練的安全職能也就是我們一直在提的兒少教練的加薪制度剛剛委員有提到類似的制度你要接觸兒少的教練你是否要有另外一個檢核機制而不是只交給單項協會那個教練 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4912.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4925.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
同時不適任運動人員的追蹤機制是不夠完善的橫向通報是有漏洞的政兆的查詢系統也沒有揭露不適任的記錄同時政府沒有禁止提供公立場地給不適任教練來訓練兒少 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4927.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4956.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
同時在這些運動場館俱樂部訓練班私人教練的民間教練的這個問題呢有不適任教練的預防調查橫向通報跟對不適任者執教開罰的機制通通是沒有的也就是我們沒有一個對於尤其我們可以把線劃在兒少對兒少的這個教練的不適任的相關的檢舉制度申訴制度處理制度今天我們就算可以查核可以去製造庫查核裡面有任何的檢舉制度裡面有任何的處理制度裡面有調查制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4956.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4981.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
你沒有東西可以查核啊因為他沒有經過這些調查機制啊但同時非特定體育團體是沒有被納進來這些預防跟處理的機制當中的那我們也看到在民間的這個部分就留給大家看一下就是說市長我們看到在民間完全沒有相關不適任教練的預防跟處理機制補習班老師的部分目前透過各個MeToo的問題等等已經有相當的處理了但民間教練的部分完全沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4983.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5004.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
所以這幾個我們列出來是覺得運動部就算還沒有修法之前馬上就可以做的事情包括教練的專業倫理的指引等等包括橫向的聯繫通報機制的問題包括要建立協會跟民間場館不適合教練的預防機制等等這些我們特別要再強調一次以上都應該要含非特定體育團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5008.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5027.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
建築修法的部分我們的建議就是包含要修法禁止運動訓練中的身心傷害跟不當訓練同時就是兒少運動教練要有一個加簽制度讓我們可以透過對兒少的照顧跟關心跟保護也能夠把這個制度建立起來同時就是協會跟民間場館當中的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5029.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5048.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
以及就是要有一個如果說對於這個不適任教練的預防調查處理橫向通報機制沒有處理比如台中那個學校那他的相關罰則應該要被處理以上 謝謝大家謝謝那我們接下來邀請我們的足球協會足球發展協會的石明晉理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5062.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5078.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
大家好我今天比較聚焦在整個修法上面因為這是一個修法的公聽會所以我提出一些意見可能在接下來的修正草案裡面或者是在執法裡面的辦法我們可以去注意到的一些事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5079.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5098.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那首先第一個我們講到說修法第31條裡面首先我先看到的是它裡面還是有一些不足因為我們在計程車的職業登記的辦法裡面其實還有道館條例裡面所規定的犯罪項目其實比我們現在看到的31條更多包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5100.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5115.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
窃盜包括搶奪包括組織犯罪這些其實對我們的兒少或者是運動教育其實都有可能造成蠻大的影響那我們在列舉這些犯罪項目裡面的時候有一些其實是可以考慮進去的可以增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5116.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5131.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那第二個是我們在第十條之二裡面聘用未持有兒童未持有兒童及少年工作等從事訓練的人那我們在補教法裡面其實有規定這些聘用的單位如果你有發動 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5132.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5150.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
發現這些情勢其實你要主動的通報不是說我不聘用你而已如果你有發現這些情況你這些聘用單位其實你要主動的去通報相關的主管機關然後另外一個就是我們剛才有提到說家長或者是這些接受訓練的人員怎麼樣知道說 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5153.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5180.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我這些訓練的教練是不是有符合第一個除了查詢系統之外那在包括計程車的職業登記證大家計程車都會看到上面必須秀出它的證照那如果你是開那個化學車你要載那個化學車 毒物車或者是那種災害防治車其實你的證照是要秀在你的車子上面所以我們是不是應該要規定說你在訓練的時候你要掛你的證照 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5181.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5206.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
就好像我們餐飲業會貼它的那個什麼丙級廚師 乙級廚師等等那你在訓練的場所裡面你讓家長跟受訓練的有時候不一定是家長嘛我們有可能成人去接受這一些運動的訓練的時候你應該要主動的出示你的合格的證照那甚至不一定要我每一次都要去查詢那我至少知道說你是符合哪一個等級或者是擁有什麼樣的一個證照 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5207.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5223.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那這個在教學場所俱樂部或者在學校裡面都可以制定相關的規定那另外是我們知道道館條例35條裡面對於酒後駕車它其實只是一個交通違規它就可以公佈它的姓名照片跟違法事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5224.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5251.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
所以如果說我們是對於不當不適任還沒有到刑事責任的其實我們就可以直接用這個符合公共利益的方式先公佈這些不適任教練或者是已經有爭議行為的教練也許他的證招還沒有被撤銷或者是還沒有犯罪被確定的其實都可以公開那這些不適任如果說我們在起訴之後或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5252.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5267.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
起訴之後我們就可以直接先調扣他的證照那當然如果他判決無罪這個證照就可以發還但是如果是確定的話那我們就是要吊銷而且是不得再考那另外呢如果是不當不適任的我們還要 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5270.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5285.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
建立他的管制跟處罰的機制比如說管制多少年不可以再去考教練證照或者是不可以再考其他不同類型的教練證照這個我們應該法律上面明文要來去管理然後另外呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5286.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5315.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
在職業登記辦法的第16條裡面它裡面有規定對於這一些職業計程車駕駛人就職業駕駛人他本身的犯罪資料或者是他裡面被管制或者人有不適當行為的資料呢他必須在政府機關裡面做資料的利用跟交流也就是說如果你是在運動部發現他有不當的行為你應該要通報教育部內政部如果是兒少的你還要通報衛福部那相反的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5316.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5341.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
反向就是如果你在衛福部這邊發現這個人有違反兒少保護的事項的時候他也應該去通報教育部內政部或者是運動部那他要建立一個共同的查詢系統我們知道這個資訊的交流呢一個是關係人的查詢因為不教辦法裡面規定你要聘用之前你必須向相關的主管機關去查詢這個人過去有沒有不當教學或者是不是有持有相關的證照 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5341.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5355.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
第二個就是我們的政府內部的交流第三個是公開的資訊揭露其實這三個方向是這三個資料庫都應該去建立因為其實它公開的程度並不一樣就好像有一些人他目前處於爭議案子還在調查當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5359.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5374.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那可能你不適合把它公開可是你在教學機關在聘用的時候或者是我們內部的執法單位可以彼此交流相關的資訊必須要互相通報這一件事情我覺得要建立不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5375.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5391.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
程度不同規格的內部的資料交流跟外部的公開資料然後接下來就是我們今天有競技師的人來嘛對不對那我們所謂的運動項目是不是只有競技師裡面所屬的項目包括我們有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5393.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5408.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
在土風舞教學的啦或者是這種什麼韻律操的或者是棋藝類型的競技大家知道棋藝類型其實它在運動部裡面有很多也是接受到運動部的補助那到底我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5409.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5426.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
運動部應該要管理的項目裡面包含了哪些那我覺得除了類型之外還有包括所謂的場域例如是在我們的運動場館或者是體育場裡面的教學你只要在這裡教我不管你教什麼反正我就是要你 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5426.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5454.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
必須擁有相關的這個證照或者是證明然後你不可以有相關的犯罪記錄那為什麼要通報教育部運動部內政部呢其實這一些過程裡面如果你通報內政部了那警政署的員警在在這個體育館旁邊在體育場上面如果是巡邏有發現相關的這些事證的時候他一樣可以去集合查詢並且預先做出防範那我覺得說在這幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5455.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5477.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
幾個項目裡面可能在未來的修法還有包括後續的執法裡面都可以把這些考量把它列進去那我今天比較關注在修法的方面那謝謝大家謝謝那我們接下來請專業教練協會的副秘書長林俊勇副秘書長發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5486.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5506.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
主席各位委員各位專家學者好我是中華民國專專協會副秘書長今天委託我們邱教練因為邱教練他在美國進修就委託我來做一些簡單的一些建議跟報告那我們協會有內部有針對就是教練素養以及聘證制度有一些幾點的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5510.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5537.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我們認為當前的教練的聘任的有一些現況大概有分兩種一個是學校系統的法官機制然後一個多元聘任的管道然後這兩個部分就是因為我們覺得剛才如次長有報告過說其實在學校聘任的教練他的背景專業經歷其實都有透過嚴格的稽查跟審核所以這些機制已經保障了校園內的教練的一個適任性並以淘汰許多不適任的教練 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5538.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5562.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
但為什麼這麼多教練還是會有一些素養上可能有一些不夠全面我們認為是因為太多多元的拼證管道因為我們現在專教練拼證管道有計劃性的也有國家訓練中心的一些拼證的方法其實管道是非常多但教練素養其實是我們比較擔心的一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5566.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5592.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那我們協會這邊有兩個就是建議行動的方案建議就是說第一個如果可以的話我們希望可以就是統一拼證的標準就是因為我們主要在學校正值的服務是透過教育人員拼證的條例的一個辦法希望能確保教練有專業的品德標準但當然這個費用確實可能需要一些龐大的支付不過 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5593.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5609.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
有教育人員評論方法的話等一下以下會有一些簡單補充為什麼我們需要用可以用統一的評論標準那第二個是教練養成的教練養成制度我們希望就是教練的證照取得後我們需要還要透過實習以及導師制度來提升我們教練的專業素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5612.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5633.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
那我們如果用教育人員拼准辦法的話會有什麼的優勢就是第一個的話我們可以有標準化的審核可以選擇他的學金力以及他的專業的一個評估那第二個的話我們教育拼准辦法考試我們有考試的一個制度可以統一的檢定他的專業能力那當然就是最後還能確保教研團的一個素素養 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5636.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5651.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
教練養成的機制因為我們知道我們專專教練證照取得通常是透過運動員選手的一個成績機制所以我們希望建立一個養成機制當然就是在年初的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5652.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5667.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
有接受柯之恩立委的一個邀請然後當然有包括現在的之前的署長鄭志東署長我們其實我們內部討論其實我們協會這邊就已經有訂出一個草案草案到我們 送到我們執行體育署不過執行體育署因為可能在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5668.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5691.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
跟運動部的整合所以一直沒有後續的一個規劃不過我們協會這邊有訂出一個草案出來就是給給樹林運動部這邊一些建議然後我們這邊有以下的四點建議就是說希望我們在取證後以後當然需要一些還是需要一些專業的一些理論的一個知識所以說我們在我們草案部分的話我們有明訂一些我們需要接受的一些理論的一個背景 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5692.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5720.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那第二個就是說在教練實務的時期的話我們需要透過一個自身的領導者來嚴定就是取證後的教練包括還有他的教學管理還有訓練計劃擬定以及危機處理那就是我們可以還訂定導師的制度就是在有限的年限還是這些導師的話還是可以協助這些剛取證的一個職場的教練然後最後當然希望成功的將教練可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5721.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5748.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
提升他的教學品質那導師的制度核心價值就是有以上的四點可以三點就是經驗傳承還有實務訓練以及轉正的一個提升那至於剛剛有聽到許多委員有報告就是說像一些有像不適正的教練最後會延伸流算到四人運動部的俱樂部這邊那協會這邊有討論到一些重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5752.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5776.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我們希望因為主要是非學校系統的教練他的第一個就是包括俱樂部包括運動中心這邊拼的方法其實不一然後審核的標準非常寬鬆有可能有安全保護漏洞的一個問題然後我們這邊是有建議說是不是可以在補教法這邊可以沿著我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5777.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5803.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
俱乐部的这边的规范或者是严引一些类似补教法的这些然后要求运动中心跟俱乐部来执行要求教练的一个审定跟考核所以我们是希望可以借助补教法的一个规范然后定定标准然后来实施俱乐部来聘任教练的一个办法 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5805.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5832.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那這個部分就是說我們可以強化教練的背景他可以第一個可以審查他有沒有犯罪的紀錄然後可以在他的專業證照跟資歷可以審的然後我們最重要的是可以再要求他在期定期的在教育的規範因為現在許多的取證的教練其實他不像我們有教育能源拼人辦法就是說我們需要需要去進修去實習那如果有這個制度的話也可以讓我們的許多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5834.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5853.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
流傳到俱樂部的教練 他必須要定期的再去接受教育那在俱樂部的部分的話 也可以就是擬定這三種 就是保護學生的一些規範 教學空間還有他教學內容的一個這個制度 包括他有申訴的管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5855.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5873.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
最後我們希望打造就是學校系統有一個非常嚴謹的一個教育任員的一個標準然後運動中心可以比照有補教界的一個補教法的一個規範機制然後學生這邊有一個安全的一個申訴管道然後最後希望可以推動安全一個優質的教育謝謝 以上報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5880.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5889.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
謝謝那接下來我們請這個民族時鐘的專案運動教練許秀敏那在許秀敏專案運動教練報告完結束之後呢我們會休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5893.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5918.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
主席各位委員各位專家學者先進大家早安我是台北市民主時鐘運動專任教練許秀敏很開心今天可以代表運動專任教練然後站在這邊跟大家去做一些建議那我先說一下立場的部分因為我是第一線就是運動專任教練服務的一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5919.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5946.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那在於體育署的部分還有教育局的部分其實我要站在運動專業教育立場先講一下就是說其實我們是有被考核的我每三年都要被體育署考核一次我每一年學校都要考核一次要送教育局那其實重複的是每一年都在做那這個部分我想說還是講一下我的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5947.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5971.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
因為我曾經是一個合格的體育老師然後在92年我轉任了運動專人教練那是因為我的理想跟志向我希望在一個基層的一個運動的一個部分可以服務然後可以讓所有的選手們可以更多人受益那在這個領域裡面其實在這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5972.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5998.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我想各位委員可能有很多對運動專業教練可能立場會不太一樣那基於我是老師教練出來的我的建議是如果師資有培育法那為什麼教練沒有師資培育法如果我們想要培育更多的運動選手來傳承然後讓這個國家的體育變得更好為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6000.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6028.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
學生不能有一個叫運動專練教練師資培育法那這個運動專練教練師資培育法裡面其實就可以包含很多的課程包含我們剛講的兒少性平這個部分其實都涵蓋在裡面那我覺得說因為我自己從老師轉任教練所以所有的課程我都上過包括剛剛我們講的兒少運動訓練知能研習其實我也去上過 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6029.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6052.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
那所有的我站在第一線我看了很多學者啦很多立委其實我們很遺憾的是很多運動專業教練有發生這樣的事情可是這不能代表所有運動專業教練的錯那我們現在只是想要去救這個體育我們怎麼樣去可以讓這些運動專業教練可以在他的領域裡面發光發熱這個我會建議是老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6057.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6081.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
有培育法教練應該也要有實質培育法可以像我這樣子從老師然後轉到運動專業教練那我想他的所有的專業知識還有他的教練的領域裡面我想他應該是會更面面俱到那這個是我個人的一個建議那當然總結裡面的話我是希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6082.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6106.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我們今天大家都應該站在同一條線上那我覺得說很多運動專業教練是很辛苦的我當然不能說我自己很辛苦我365天我自己的父親我才回去探望過三次那我所有的時間都奉獻給所有的青少年的孩子我想盡辦法讓他們變成跟我一樣可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6107.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6123.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
更好的一個教練更好的一個老師然後未來可以出這個社會為大家而服務所以我今天站在這裡我想要建議的是希望各位專家委員還有立委們可不可以一起來努力就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6124.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6147.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
讓教練也有一個叫師之培育法在學生的時代裡面讓他去修課然後我們慢慢去培養他然後讓他有個專業的知識跟專業的證照然後出來這個社會可以在為更多的青少年的小朋友基層的一個體育運動發展然後促進更好的一個未來謝謝以上是我的建議謝謝謝謝那我們接下來先休息10分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6158.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6186.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
中文字幕 李宗盛 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6188.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6193.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那先給你們,因為剛主任怕你們這邊沒有喔真的嗎?喔,OK他在這裡他在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6776.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6786.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
好那我們接下來就繼續開會喔那我們接下來請東元國小的棒球隊總教練賴敏楠發言 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6792.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6809.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
主席 各位先進 大家早安我是台北市萬華區東原國小棒球隊專任教練賴明南那麼我今天站在這邊有兩點要提出討論那麼第一點就是所謂淘汰的不適任 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6810.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6833.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
就我自己了解那麼我在東元國小任教已經32年了那誠如前一位教練說的當年我們也是可以當所有的老師那麼我當年是教育部體育師招聘的約聘顧教練那麼在當時一年一聘而薪資又不高那麼我們當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6835.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6864.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我是第七期那時候辦了七期我是最後一期所以在那個時候的時空背景下我們一些教練都執著在訓練場上那麼教師是在課堂上那麼我們教練要教又要練所以我覺得我們工作也不輕鬆於所謂的教師所以我一直堅持執著要在運動場上去指教因為我喜歡訓練那我執著我自己的運動 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6865.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6893.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那麼在98年也就是說我們一些一年一聘的教練為了爭取我們的權益也找了很多立法委員也修法通過才有所謂的正式的教師任用條例的專任教練那麼由各縣市招聘那我要講的第一個問題就是說招聘當然我想不是只有教練不是人啦我們也知道我們剛剛人本那邊有講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6894.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6922.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
台中的教練那個是真正的一個教練那其實我也知道另外一個南投他是有老師他本身是教師他也是去教學生打球那也發生了性平的事情目前應該還在議案中應該有被判刑那麼這個不是任我自己遇到的當然我不講誰就是說那個考核機制可能需要做改變譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6924.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6952.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
某個學校的教練霸凌被校安通報那校安通報教育局就請學校召開教評會請學校召開教評會這次我實際可以從別的學校聽到那那個教練真的可能屢犯了喔他第一次那學校教評會是七人小組那這七人小組可能會不會對這個教練或怎麼找來有沒有壓力或有人情世故或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6953.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6958.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我們說這個社會我們大家都不想當壞人那在這個七人小組的考核之中可能就 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6960.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6984.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
輕輕的放下要不然就給他一等不能拿考核獎金然後還續任就是可能留校查看那過了幾年可是這個教練還在但是據我了解還在犯在犯又同樣的循環教育局又通報來學校再繼續七人小組去考核那這個教練到現在據我了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6984.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7003.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
好像還在那這個如果等到犯了大案子傷害到小孩子不可收拾的時候可能人本又跳出來了又一粒米壞了一鍋粥那這個考核制度我覺得需要做一個是不是要修法還是需要做一個修正這是第一個那麼第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7005.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7019.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我們現在知道說我們98年國民體育法通過之後我是在那一批通過之後也是經過所謂的考試那麼我進入了動用國小服務到現在也所謂的教育任用條例正式的 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
7020.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
7036.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
正式教練那麼國民體育法第16條滿三年要考核一次滿三年可是現在中央的制定我們任用教育人員任用條例我們跟學校老師一樣在學校說學校的考核每年一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
7037.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
7052.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那當然我有帶隊成績等等我都不擔心那現在還有一個制度就是說在中央制定每三年要再考核試所以有時候我帶隊帶隊就為了這些考核每天都在寫那些書面的東西我覺得有點繁瑣 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
7053.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
7073.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那是不是說如果你滿三年考核過了而且真正這些考核制度建立得非常完善考核是絕對要考核不適任的人而不是要考核有成績有理想有抱負的教練那是不是能延逸是不是延長滿三年之後後面是不是定定是五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
7074.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
7094.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
五年過後是不是七年那再來我差不多退休了這三年五年一挨就二十年了所以我每三年被中央制定的一直在考核他會覺得很煩這個是一個重點我們現在我是正式專業教練在教練制度上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
7095.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
7117.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
另外一个福利就是说我知道我们有原住民的专业教练有原民会这边但是好像也是由以前的教育部体育署在辅导那么也有各县市有一年一片的那么也有外片那在这些教练的所有的会不会有私人这个考核等等的参差不齐也一定有 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
7117.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
7143.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
像我们自己的学校包括我们今年去威伦博队比赛的一位洛教练他就是原住民聘的专业教练那么原住民这三个字就好像是为他们争取福利可是我们洛教练并不是原住民但是以前也是我东原的校友我的学生我一手拉把长大的那么放出这个福利原住民专业教练让他比较能够有所谓的 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
7144.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
7162.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
辦正事我們都知道在98年以前我就是一年一聘薪水相當微薄那麼他現在是原住民一年一聘那麼我也曾經跟原住民那邊討論過就是說跟教育部體育署是不是他已經有成績他雖然不是原住民但是我們因為學生的人數夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
7163.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7190.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
足夠有原住民的人數夠才能聘任有原住民聘任教練的這個緣額在那他已經帶隊那麼多年都有成績是不要再一年一聘的考核那再來就是他的年資未來能不能成為正式如果他有機會像我們今年有成績市長有說要徵聘專業教練如果他考上我們正式未來年資能不能列入計算以上報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7193.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7198.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
謝謝那接下來我們一樣邀請一樣是東元國小的這個棒球隊教練 駱振宇 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7205.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7230.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
主席委員長官大家好我是東岳國小棒球隊的陸教練那我剛剛有看了那個書面報告的內容然後也有聽了很多長官們的報告其實大多都是聚焦在如何反制不是任教練進入我們的教育場合和一些民間運動團體的場合去任教那我覺得其實如何留任優秀教練然後樹立優秀運動教練的制度我覺得也通等重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7232.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7257.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我只是想要問的是如果假設都如果都沒有步伐那是不是任何有證照的人都可以當教練又或者是說然後他在當教期間如果只要避免剛剛去說的違法事件然後考核通過他就可以一直教下去會不會就是因為這樣因為真正優秀人才他就是因為這樣都不想當教練大家對於教練的標準就會越來越低以我為例好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7258.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7272.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
美國打完冠軍回來之後師傅有在討論剛剛大家有在講師傅有在討論要帶給我們學校多一位專任教練的名額我考取的機會很大我身邊的親朋好友都說我前途一片光明但是我必須要跟大家說其實我前途一片黑暗 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7273.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7293.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
為什麼我簡單跟大家專任教練工作簡單說明一下我們要訓練要比賽之外我們要招生我們要訓練計劃算學訓練計劃比完賽回來要經費核銷年度的經費核銷然後有時候經費不足的時候我們要找贊助我們要開車帶隊要自己要開車然後要把關學生的品性課業態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7295.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7315.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
然後甚至有些教練更辛苦他要管理住宿生的他要關懷弱勢學生等等等等甚至要更多薪水4萬起跳更有趣的是假設我今天是專任教練我今天考取正式的專任教練現在專任教練的起薪比我現在領到薪水還要再低更低我現在如果考取正式的話薪水會比我現在還要更低 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7324.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7349.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
年資要重算 種種不友善的制度讓我和其他的優秀教練我們必須要另謀出路我們不想要留在這邊了有其他教練曾經在台北市某知名的國小我認為他是一個優秀的教練但是因為薪水問題他不再留任了他現在跑去開Uber他發現跟我說我們花一樣的時間在運動圈他現在跑去開Uber他的月薪可以10萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7351.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7372.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
他就說你現在都已經拿到冠軍了你的夢想完成了你的熱情也完成了但是該考慮現實面的時候我不敢說我是一位優秀的教練但是我正努力往優秀的道路前進我只是覺得這些優秀教練如果因為這樣無法留任指導學生我覺得對於體育界是一件很可惜的事情謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7375.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7381.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
好謝謝那我們接下來邀請的是台灣運動產業嗎台灣運動產業協會的徐振賢理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7396.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7415.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
主席 委員跟各位先進 我是桃運動產業協會理事長徐振賢 以下是我的分享我覺得今天要討論的議題 我從幾個端點來討論第一個是我們的教練的養成的過程裡面 是不是養成的符合現代運動教育的正確的認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7417.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7446.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我舉例來說在我們剛剛公聽會的現場我正在聽各位委員的發言我就接到一位家長給我一個訊息他的兩個兒子都打棒球在台中一個非常知名的棒球學校我不好講哪一個學校兩個兒子都被霸凌兩個兒子現在休學在家等調查報告剛剛我在現場接到訊息他說他的這個檢舉報告上面寫教練用手打我的頭打四下 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7448.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7471.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
因为我一个球没有投好他的弟弟说教练因为我一个球没投好叫我跑操场跑十圈再一个球没投好叫我青蛙跳跳六圈请问在座的教练认为这个是不是霸凌我相信这个题目如果问全台湾所有教练不管你是专业教练你是约聘顾各种教练可能有一半的教练告诉你这不是霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7472.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7497.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以我想跟各位說的是台灣的體育運動教練的最大問題是很多事情根本沒有架構沒有規則沒有規範沒有共識如果台灣有一半的教練對同一件事情的觀感是完全不一樣的請問我們在立任何的法律有用嗎沒有用的我認為我們最大的問題是對一個最基本的什麼叫性品什麼叫霸凌的基本素養是完全沒有共識的 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7498.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7524.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
而這個共識之所以沒有是因為我們的教練從小的養成過程就是這樣被對待的這件事沒有改變再過20年我相信這公聽會持續發生一樣的議題不同的人講不同的話所以第一個我想講的是我們對所有現任的教練要不要重新做不管你多資深多厲害得什麼冠軍都不管重新做最基本的素養教育你可以打孩子頭嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7526.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7543.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
你可以罰他青蛙跳吗你可以罰他跑十天操场没有任何理由吗如果这个没有共识我们今天开的会是没有意义的第一件事情第二件事情是系统的侵犯我自己不是立法委员我也不是公务人员但我接到了上百个家长的陈情都在讲霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7544.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7556.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
而這些霸凌的case據我所知沒有一個case是在他通報之後馬上列入調查然後能夠給一個正式回覆都要迂迴找議員找立法員甚至要寫信到部長信箱 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7558.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7577.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
為什麼一個孩子被霸凌被性平了我們的家長還需要這麼辛苦的走這樣讓他覺得非常擔心的程序我昨天接到一個游泳的家長他的小孩游泳成績非常非常好可以說國家級的他說Jeff我們這次選拔出了問題我說你敢不敢寫信到部長信箱他說我不敢因為我怕寫得被針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7579.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7605.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我想表達的是我們現在的系統的輕放對應的就是一群憂心的家長各位少子女化已經嚴重的侵襲台灣的體育運動發展尤其體育班如果少子女化的影響我們不好好面對我們繼續讓這些我們認為不公不義的事情在市場上發生就會出現一群憂心的家長最後就沒有孩子運動了以現在的少子女化的程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7606.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7630.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
包括連體育班的數量人數都要減少如果繼續這樣子再過十年我們沒有增加運動的滲透率各位沒有體育班了也不用考運動專業教練因為沒有體育班了只要沒有提升運動滲透率體育班就不會存在所以體育班不用討率存廢它自然會廢掉因為沒有學生所以如果我們繼續讓這些不公平的事情發生我跟各位保證家長們是受不了的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7632.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7642.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
他有很多選擇不一定要玩運動所以這個是不是嚴重的議題包括運動部教育部可能要思考第三我想講的是我認為文化的建立比生硬的法律規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7644.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7667.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
可能更重要我認為至少要兼備我們現在立法我非常認同但我們整個文化的建立都沒有建立法律再硬也都不會執行因為需要執行的人會把它輕放什麼叫文化的建立我就請問我們要不要開始把體育班的學生回歸正常的教育系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7668.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7685.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
剛有前輩說應該針對專業教練有一個專門的學程我就問能不能先進正常的教育學習再說你都沒有正常的上課從國小五六年級體育班國中高中到大學進去體育訓都不用正常上課的情況下你再怎麼學成有用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7688.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7715.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
如果這些孩子沒有正常的學習他學的唯一的就是他的那個教練他那個教練只要有霸凌有性平行事件未來就會持續發生這次台中的事件已經證明了一個長年性侵學生的棒球教練他的學生也性侵別人我們講的都真實案例人本案例大陸我認認讀讀不完所以我們要不要建立文化的確我們要立法沒有錯但立法之前文化要不要建立文化不建立學生都不讀書 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7717.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7744.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
教練們可以犯法都被輕放有一個滑輪溜冰的知名教練到現在還可以都已經被學校除名還可以隨時進到全國賽的現場去當教練當裁判請問你家長如何看待如果一個這樣的教練都可以直接繼續在全國賽現場出現請問這些滑輪溜冰家長要怎麼面對孩子學滑輪溜冰這件事而我們的協會不聞不問 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7745.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7763.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
協會部門不問請問有沒有法則沒有法則所以我們的立法已經非常鬆散又沒有文化這件事情就是難上加難所以我認為立法跟文化的建議同時必須並重然後最後我想說的是體育班的學生真的要讀書了謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7768.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7776.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
好 謝謝那我們接下來邀請的是國立台北教育大學體育學系的胡天梅教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7794.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7821.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
主席各位委員各位學者專家大家好今天很高興就是運動部以及各位都專注在這個有關運動教練這個議題我常常開玩笑的說在台灣當運動教練不是傻子就是瘋子但是我這裡的意思是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7823.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7841.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
在台灣擔任運動教練他的付出跟他的報酬其實是有相當大的這個落差的那當然我們也不是以報酬來去衡量一個職務它的一個價值但是陳儒剛才前面 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7843.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7868.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我們的棒球教練他提到的就是如果說他以專任運動教練再重新起薪的話那麼他的薪水是連他現在的四萬都不到也就是當我們在討論這個不適任專任運動教練該如何去處理或者是說該建立哪些法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7870.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7897.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
是不是能夠全面性的去考量到以上種種的這些前面委員所提到的這些很奇怪的運動現場的現象是因為我們從來都沒有重視運動那所以今天你要求這些專業運動人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7900.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7925.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
他們要有很多的很高的條件的時候他就成了一個很難達成的現象剛才前面也提到其中最麻煩的就是有關兒少的運動教練這個部分但是有關兒少的運動教練這個部分我們也了解這是一個基層的運動教練 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7930.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7957.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
試問大家想一想基層的運動教練在我們整個社會我們給他的重視程度我們給他的待遇到底是多少那也因此在民間在社團的這一些可能是他對這個運動有興趣 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7960.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7981.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
或者是他對兒童青少年幼兒有興趣所以他才去參與這樣的一個沒有人想要擔任的運動教練這樣的一個職務因此呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7982.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8005.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我今天很想的很想就是把握住今天能夠來到現場跟大家討論這個議題的時候是不是我們能夠把焦點從學校專任運動教練拉回到有關私人俱樂部這些民間團體的這些運動教練 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8012.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8019.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那這些運動教練因為他並沒有受到我們任何政府的一個補助那我們如何監督他那我剛才也很感謝前面的委員也有提到有關這個短期補習班目前已經成立就是建立這個相當的法規跟通報的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8039.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8060.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
那我覺得民間的運動教練這個部分是不是也可以從相關的法規先建立但是建立之後誰去通報呢剛才前面委員也提到說那我們是不是有體育館的巡邏系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8064.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8090.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
但是今天如果說在民間民間的一個私人的跆拳道訓練場誰去巡邏誰去通報以及通報之後怎麼樣去查核這個可能是在法規建立的時候也需要一併進行考量的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8092.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8121.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那我個人過去也有一些孩子他跟我講他個人在過去受到這個不當管教的一個運動經驗那我那時候就在問我自己我能夠做什麼我能夠幫他什麼可是我發覺到很難為什麼因為各個運動的場所現場就只有教練 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8123.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8126.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
跟學生或者是教練跟選手那麼誰去進行這個通報的行為呢前面委員也有提到受到不當管教的孩子你要他提出來他會說他會害怕 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8151.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8178.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那現場除了教練除了孩子之外還有誰難道我們裝監視系統嗎那但是在民間的俱樂部民間的社團你可以裝監視系統嗎其實有關這個查核的一個辦法的一個設立的過程當中我會比較建議說考量到如何真的能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8180.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8198.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
看到現場以及是不是有什麼方法能夠讓這個通報系統能夠很順利的建立以上是我個人的意見 謝謝好 謝謝接下來我們請中華民國奧運人協會的李建新秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8206.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8226.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
好 各位午安 大家好我叫李建興今天來參加這個公聽會我覺得非常適合因為我在師大運動競技學系最近有點紅我教的學生大部分可以說幾乎來自代表隊體育班然後畢業之後大部分是從事專人運動教練 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8228.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8257.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那麼這四年來我擔任志工的工作在中華美國奧運人協會擔任秘書長中華美國奧運人協會他所有的會員只要一個資格參加過奧運的選手今天這個專任運動教練他立法成為所謂的教育人員的話是2004年我記得是我們那時候理事長黃志雄擔任立法委員的時候跟很多的立法委員共同推動立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8257.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8282.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那我記得在102年的時候專任教練的輔導辦法是我擔任體驗中心的時候幫忙訂定草案所以對於這個法規特別有法律上的一個情感那今天時間有那麼另外在奧運人來講以花東地區來講有專任教練比如說2004年天才少年王正邦 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8283.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8308.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
他就是射箭拿銀牌他是專任教練那2012年的話在倫敦奧運的時候拿下銅牌的曾立成他也是花蓮地區的專任教練那麼今天時間有限我只有三個重點第一個是事情多有些時候是好事第二個是事情太雜的時候可能是壞事最後我要總結應該要讓好的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8310.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8314.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
集中那我先講事情多有些時候是好事喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8315.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8345.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我這幾年擔任某個亞奧運項目的紀律委員會的主委那麼包括性侵霸凌的案件處理多了很多已經創紀錄那為什麼說事情多是好事呢這不代表我們的國家退步代表很多在陽光下面的一些事情被拿到檯面上然後在法治的過程當中將這些專任 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8346.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8364.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
不適合的專任教練淘汰而且這個部分我必須要肯定的是立法院還有教育部之前教育部體育署還有現在的運動部那我更要肯定的是其實絕大部分絕大部分的專業運動教練過得太辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8365.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8379.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那麼他們的貢獻其實是很大很大的比如說今天看到賴教練揮揮手他拿到少棒冠軍的時候他掉的英雄類我還拍給他那其實那個過程跟這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8381.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8395.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
極少數極少數的教練才會出這樣的事情所以我說事情多有些是好事壞事情讓它產生第二個是今天的這個法規謝謝立法院有些委員已經有一個草案的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8396.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8414.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
那我本身的話在行政院體育委員會成立半年的時候我就高考及格也就在做這方面的工作那我要講的是這個辦法裡面其實它的法例看起來有利益是良善但是在落實上有很多的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8415.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8439.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
因為不適任的專任教練現在從早期的教育部體育署到現在的運動部包括教育部其實在現行的辦法法規已經有集合很多人的智慧那現在比較大的問題是如何落實從剛剛陳培宇委員到後續幾個與會的代表其實都已經有提到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8439.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8462.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那麼至於要如何落實可能才是關鍵那至於這個草案我也有仔細拜讀它裡面可能有很多部分必須有待處理有些瑕疵比如說兒少的年齡的對象還有他訂定這個所謂的課程要中央目的事業主管機關釐清這到時候人多嘴雜應該會吵成一團 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8464.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8484.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
再來他到底要在公法司法還有他適用的對象是不是民間而且他談到的是運動教學與訓練者那比如說我爸爸媽媽要跟你做運動訓練那你還要專業證照這個證照還有這些課程還有更重要今天我遇到我的好朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8485.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8500.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那個陳錫清陳祖密幫他打個廣告他最近出了兩本法學的書這裡面其實關於那個人格權法規講到人格權的部分那我做了一些功課還有一字不二法 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8501.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8526.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
還有我們的那個就是無罪推定那以人格權來講憲法的第22條刑法的第18條第195條民法的309條民法的310條包括刑事訴訟法這裡面其實都會有法律競合的問題這個都必須加以再釐清第三個重點是好事是少 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8526.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8548.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
什麼意思呢其實絕大部分的專任運動教練他們對國家的貢獻非常的多那我也必須承認是極少數的這些專任教練他們做了一些有愧於國人期待的事情這些壞蟲應該在現行的法規機制或者在蟲嚥的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8549.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8567.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
加以落實幫他揪出來但是因為我另外一個角色是在台灣師大任教我從法學的概念來談在全世界立法的潮流裡面從血債血還的因果論到對於犯罪者我們要如何去預防他 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8568.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8581.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
到目前來講已經到特別預防理論那特別預防理論其實他要做的是在除弊之外更重要的是心力那比如說中華民國奧運人比如說賴教練比如說我們運動部部長李陽 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8583.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8599.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這些人這些有偶包偶像應該利用比馬龍效應讓他們在社會各層面結合運動部的成立做更多形象的正面宣導那我相信在陽光之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8600.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8622.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
越亮的陽光 越好的光線之下陰影存在的機會變少也就是呼應剛剛幾個發言人代表所提的去建立一個良善的運動文化才是持久之計以上是個人意見 謝謝謝謝那接下來我們請女足球員工會的焦佳紅秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8645.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8672.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
委員然後與會的長官還有各位專家學的大家早安台灣女足球員工會嘉鴻在這邊分享作為一個足球的球迷或是教練也好其實我們一直很好奇一個問題到底我們要怎樣才知道或我們家長都會問他的足球教練有沒有被撤銷過教練證不知道大家對於台灣現在我們足球教練數量有沒有概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8673.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8701.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那根據中華足協在2002年公佈的資料我們目前台灣擁有教練證的教練數量大概1084那現在三年後應該會更多但到底有多少教練在這過程裡面曾經或有被撤銷教練證呢其實我們現在可能只能從中華足協的紀律委員會公告裡面看到這個狀況可是很有趣的事情是在中華足協的紀律委員會公告裡面我們能夠看到的資料是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8702.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8729.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
是圈圈圈擔任足球界的期間對兒童不當碰觸行為然後撤銷他的教練證那這個圈圈圈是誰不知道教練不知道家長不知道我們只能透過口耳相傳考上哪個教練有問題接下來還是一樣到今年7月其實這個東西在坊間大家有很多的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8731.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8759.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
窮民也好 家長也好 教練也好大家想問的東西都是到底為什麼我們要這麼保護這些被撤銷教練證的教練可是很有趣的事情是一樣是中華民國組合協會紀律委員會在之前的師大女主案的時候周才英教練的教練證被撤銷的時候她又是一個全民公告的狀態那大家更疑惑的事情是這些伸縮自如的各自保護到底是保護誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8761.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8777.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
好那剛剛前面有委員有分享過在目前運動部的教練查詢制度裡面因為在台中柔道南紅事件後我們有了這樣一個查詢系統但這個系統我們只能查誰有教練證那 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8779.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8792.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
對於沒有教練證或者是對於被撤銷教練證的人其實在立法院有過很多的討論但當時的體育署抵死不願意把這些被撤銷教練證的名單公布出來直到 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8793.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8816.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
前兩個月衛福部的狼醫平台事件出現後運動部開始說好我把涉及不法的教練公告出來可是如果是有裁判書被撤銷教練證的教練的話其實不用運動部的公告我就可以在司法院的系統上面查到所以這個東西對家長而言其實沒有幫助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8817.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8840.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
那一樣回到我們剛剛談的足協我們最前面秀過至少看起來就有七八個教練被撤銷過教練證可是在目前運動部的系統裡面我們只看到三個教練有因為設法所以說被撤銷教練證然後有他的裁判書但這就是我們現在台灣被撤銷過教練證的足球教練的全貌嗎當然不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8842.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8863.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
陳培文剛有提到在法務部的函式裡面已經明白的跟運動部或當時的體育組揭示公告這些被撤銷教練證的資訊它不只是個人資料保護法的問題它其實根本的問題是在政府資訊公開法因為這些資料不是運動部自己做裁罰的這是單項協會做出的裁罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8864.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8876.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以當運動部收到這些資料的時候其實運動部本就可以基於社會公益去把這些資訊公開出來讓家長也好 讓球員也好知道我的教練他到底有沒有被撤銷過證照 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8879.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8897.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
那我們可以理解運動部到現在還是在堅持說我們只有這個有在司法院平台上面公告姓名的我們才會公告但是在這中間運動部還能做什麼我們知道過去體育組可能不願意做但至少我們期待在現在全新的運動部這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8899.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8916.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我們可以做兩件事情第一件事情如果這些紀律處分是發自單項運動協會那至少可以請單項協會把這些撤銷教練的全名公開並提供查詢因為這是單項協會本於個人資料保護法公義事由他就可以做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8917.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8932.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
那在這個前提之下運動部也可以把我們教練查詢系統擴大到被撤照的教練名單當然我們知道在過去運動部內部討論裡面擔心這樣的公告會不會影響到被公告者的名譽影響到運動部會被告 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8933.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8951.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
但實務上如果這是政府資訊公開法第18條所規範的公開資訊可以去增進公共利益的段數的話我們沒有要運動部說到底這些被測到的教練是因為什麼原因但至少你要能夠讓家長讓球員知道我的教練曾經被測校過這個基礎的事實好這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8956.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8971.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
關於不適應教練的撤照問題那再來關於教育的問題其實在2017年國民體育法修法後單項協會的教練裁判業務正式進入體育署監管範圍可是我們看到目前為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8973.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9000.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
運動部也好或過去體育署好對於單項協會在教練的養成上面兒少之能這件事情我們其實做得非常消極我們用什麼方式我們沒有提供任何法源我們單就用行政指導的方式請中華體總告訴各單項協會你要所有教練講習的時候進行一個小時的兒少教育課程我相信在座所有有參與過單項協會教練講習課程朋友都知道那一個小時大家在幹嘛在放空講師是誰不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9001.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9013.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
講師的能力好不好 不知道因為我只要坐在那邊一個小時之後我就完成了運動部交代的事情那運動部可以對立法院說我們有對教練進行兒少智能的教育這是負責任的政府嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9015.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9042.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
再者在2017年之後我們也建立了所謂的教練真人換照制度四年要48小時的教育可是實際上單向協會也好運動部也好在這塊能量非常缺乏以至於到現場剛剛原本有分享我們就委託中華體總或者說讓中華體總去開一個兩天12小時的課程也是一樣坐在那邊12小時之後我拿到時數了我們就彷彿完成了所謂教練真人的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9043.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9059.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
其实运动部有没有自己可以做的事情有运动部现在有儿少教育资源课程示范但我们不确定在运动部成立之后它还会不会延续再者我其实很开心看到今天运动产业中心的业管的次长黄次长到现场 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9060.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9085.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
因為其實在過去運動部或體育署大部分業務都是透過委外的時候我們沒有辦法去掌握這些委外課程的能量但運動產業中心在明年成立以後我期待我們會透過這個歷史機會把教練證照真的業務由我們行政法人來接手真的去做到政府可以去落實我們政策在教練裁判業務上那最後我補充一下抱歉延長時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9087.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9108.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我們要強調有證無證我們知道在現在的現場大家都是教練我們也沒有辦法區分運動部可能會說我們沒有法源我今天提供一個參考給大家知道在民國65年到82年間其實我們有過運動補習班測試辦法當時我們是曾經對運動教學是有過監理的現在雖然沒有但未來我們其實可以有 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9109.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9118.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
在這個狀況下我們就不見得只能限定在單項協會或特定體育團體的教練證照裡面那透過登記制度合照的教練證我們可以讓教練監理成為可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9120.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9148.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那最後我要說林榮忍他不應該只是口號在美國教練拉扯球員馬尾他是會被開除的在台灣呢前面委員有說過就是深界大事化小小事化無甚至我們到今年運動部成立之後我們還看到有這樣一封公文說你們在聯賽的時候不要讓大家拍到你對兒子在偶不當的行為影響聯賽形象這是形象問題嗎不是這是教練是否適應的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9150.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9176.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
最後最後跟運動部的長官分享他三之十其實一樣是在日本的運動行政法人我們可以做什麼日本的運動行政法人他們就建立了一個運動員暴力騷擾諮商窗口他們提供運動員律師心理師資深球員的諮詢他們明確揭示哪些做法是不適宜不適當而且可以做諮詢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9178.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9203.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那這些我們看到的項目裡面有多少在台灣現行的狀況下是會被輕輕放下的我們今天談的是不自身運動教練的政策但我們目標我們的對象其實不是跟教練過不去我們是要保護兒少那在保護兒少的道路上我有務實地面對透明教育跟監理制度的建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9204.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9215.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
才能去鉴别出不适应的教练然后保护我们优质的教练保护我们的儿少谢谢谢谢那接下来我们请台南一中的郭富奇主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9228.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9242.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
主席在座各位先進大家好那我就從學校的立場來說明一下像我們學校也有設有運動專業教練然後也有相關的一些部分那我想就幾個部分來分享在這個題目上的想法第一個部分是在剛才 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9244.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9259.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
各位先進剛才比較集中在的是民間單位的部分那學校的部分其實比較沒有爭議那我要講的也是學校的部分確實也比較沒有爭議因為在現行的制度底下學校的部分包含了現行的查核不適合教師的查核機制那對於不適合教師的處理機制其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9261.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9277.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
学校所聘的运动教练是有纳入就是准用不试任教室处理机制校室会议的方式在进行调查跟处理那相关的不试任教育人员只要是纳入学校的部分那其实只要落实查核机制所以刚才像各位先进有分享到某一些案例是出现在 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9279.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9299.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
學校第一個可能沒有落實查核機制那這個部分目前在署裡面或教育部這邊有加強然後有做說明了那這個部分只要能夠確實能夠讓學校落實定期查核那只要是列入不適合查核人員的部分是可以讓他有效的不要進入到校園裡面去所以在校園內的部分第一個在剛才各位市長所講的比較沒有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9301.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9325.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
下一個有疑義的問題第二點我要講的是其實剛才各位教育先進都有提到不論是教理事長或是人本的橋欄或是產業公會的區理事長都有講到我們下一個要做的事情其實應該是要建立共識那也就是在講到底什麼樣的行為是落於在體能訓練體罰不當管教之間的邊緣界線我想這個其實是不只是在運動教練其實在現行的我們在教育現場對於老師我們也一再強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9326.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9347.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那對於老師的作為其實像剛才喬蘭講的很多時候在老師上我們之前其實學校還有同仁在問我說教師的輔導管教措施中有一項是說適度的體能是一個學務處或是輔導室的輔導管教措施我說這種情形下如果一旦陷入以處罰為目的然後不當的體能訓練這就是一種體罰這個是蠻明確的可是在專項運動教練或是專業運動人員這邊卻常常卻有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9353.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9369.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
模糊不清的界限或者是學校很容易會不容易立即的辨識或是查明出這件事情那對於這件事情其實像剛才焦麗書長所講到的就是說我們應該要有更多的教育的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9369.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9385.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
像現在的教育要怎麼進行其實當然在很多情形下像我們學校也有很多推廣或是在講就是告訴大家確實會碰到一些老師或者是一些訓練的時候在教育訓練過程中他們可能會沒有這麼積極投入 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9386.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9416.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
那怎么样再加强积极投入并且跟大家有些讨论可能要再采用不同的策略跟方法那像之前在特殊学校的部分对于特殊学校的那个界限的各种的比如说以陆校 陆班然后小班制的方式或许接下来可以做一个考虑跟采取的方式就是不是每一个都是采用大班宣讲式的说法那这个地方可能会比较少可能透过几个案例跟那个具体的内容跟大家讨论那个界限跟空间在哪里这样子的考论跟处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9417.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9439.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
是第二個在未來的教育訓練但第三個要談到的就是剛才老師也有提到就是說不適合教育資料庫中它當然影響到人格權工作權 隱私權的問題所以接下來要怎麼樣建立一起長期的機制目前將所有人員都跨入納入的性平法在法律的程式中就已經有做了那今天大院在討論的這個就是國民體育法就國民體育法將 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9440.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9455.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
這類型的查核機制跟通報機制直接入法這才是一個比較能夠完整的像剛才各位先進有提到說現行就可以透過的確透過政府資訊公開法或透過相對應的法律可以讓這些事情先行公告可是它一直存在一個法治上的隱憂 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9456.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9483.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
所以如果能夠回到用法律的部分不論是在霸凌跟不當管教中不論是修改教育基本法或者是國民體育法的方式讓它建立一個明確的機制這個明確機制可能要包含像剛才劉委員所提到的就是到底要如何調查介入那這個調查過程中要如何確保調查程序對體育教練對任何人的一個就是程序上的保障以及後續的爭議機制譬如說行政救濟或是接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9483.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9501.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
如果有疑義的時候有沒有其他的申訴或救濟管道不只是針對那一些可能受影響的學生也對於這些教練要有一個完善的運作在法律層次上有明確的入法規定之後我想對於後面會比較好處理那因為現在校園裡面其實我們也會碰到說因為沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9501.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9522.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
就是性平是明確的有法律的規定在要求所以只要任何進入到學校裡面的對於性平的查核跟通報都有相對應的法律規範可是對於其他的譬如說我們剛才講到的霸凌體罰不當管教的這一些行為目前相對應的法規沒有在法律層次 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9522.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9542.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我們有在另命令層次的部分希望要做一個處理這當然是一個目前的緊急的解決方案但長期以來在法律的運作層次上或許還是要回到在法的層次上去做綜合處理可能還是比較完善的最後剛才各位先進一直有提到就是有關於民間運動場館或是訓練班俱樂部的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9543.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9561.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
那的確他就會涉及到幾個像剛才講的通報義務跟責任那或者是剛才秘書長所講的就是說誰來受理申訴跟調查那這個部分可能就是比較需要用法律的體系如果這個人是在學校已經有出現狀況已經被納入學校的不適任教育不適任的資料庫裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9562.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9588.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
這個還可以透過查核或相互的資源資訊的公開去做處理可是如果它完全是在民間自己發生的事情就是譬如說小型的民間的訓練班或者是一些幾個三五好友之間的訓練跟運作過程中這個部分可能目前確實是缺乏一個運作那能夠使用的大概只剩下兒少全法的一些規定所以這個地方怎麼樣去擴張跟處理那這個東西就要透過法律來做處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9588.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9616.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那最後就是有關於目前草案中的條列的這個就是對於哪一些行為構成不適任的這邊我自己的建議是說是不是有機會去跟當然未必完全跟教育人員一致但是有一些條文或者是一些規範內容要不要跟教育人員一致比較一致一點譬如說像是對於條文裡面特別有列出來的是犯故意傷害罪或者是殺人罪等各種的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9616.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9637.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
那這個在教育人員條例是比較用概括的最後一項行為違反法律經其他機關查證署時有解聘不得再續聘的規定這在教師法那教育人員條例有類似這樣子的條文那第一個在這次的草案中沒有見到類似這樣子的概括條文那會不會對未來在處理的過程中掛一漏萬就是可能會有一些缺失的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9637.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9657.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
第二個是因為不論像剛才有先進提出說要不要完全比照或納入教育人員利用條例但這一些都是在可能有一部分在學校裡面的如果是在學校裡面的是不是應該盡可能讓他一次會比較好那以上 謝謝好 謝謝那接下來我們邀請運動好事協會的劉伯鈞執行長執行長咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9665.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9691.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
主席各位委員大家放輕鬆我最後一個了首先還是要非常感謝給我這個機會來做分享那這也是一直我一直以來非常關心的議題那剛剛培育委員仁本還有政協委員已經舉出各種鬼故事了那講鬼故事我自然不若人後我再舉一個2007年性侵已經被定驗分別被定驗的一對兄弟 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9692.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9716.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
10年跟被定认10年跟9年半判刑确定因为性侵一个数位儿童然而他现在我cue一下他现在目前还在双元球场万华区你们之后就有陈情了万华区的双元球场那边执法用亲子社区的这个联盟去执法然而知道状况的教练跟家长 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9717.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9740.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
無計可施這就是現況所以我說真的我實在是不太能理解這個領域尤其我在2020年在抗議某場裁判的性騷之後最後的結果就是我現在除了台北市辦委會的比賽之外其他的我執法機會是零尤其我在我告訴你這個領域的特殊性就是當我去年在返回球場的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9741.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9768.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
別的比賽的球場的時候有一個裁判跟我說你看你害那個裁判三年不能在國家的比賽執法我跟他說請你搞清楚當我們裁判在判決一個選手出局妨礙跑壘等等的狀況的時候是因為他的行為而使裁判做出這樣判決而不是裁判害他出局或害他妨礙跑壘是吧教練所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9772.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9789.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
有時候我都在想如果我們制度是這樣子對於這些不適任的教練或相關的人員是這樣子的對待尤其即便我拿到了國際教會跟聯合國的運動性評獎還是可以被這樣子對待的時候我就問那這些兒少運動員該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9791.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9803.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
所以這樣子的環境如果我們持續這樣不作為等於是告訴我的訊息就是你知道嗎我也想要去犯一點性騷的案件這樣可能就會有同業跑出來捍衛我的工作權了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9808.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9821.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
在這樣環境跟結構之下我們不能告訴這些兒少運動員說其實我們現在已經有現有法規你們自己要去用啊就像是我前兩個月去美國執法那個女子職棒的比賽 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9822.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9848.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
也有人問我說你怎麼去那你怎麼會受聘去那邊執法我能跟你講說你就寫信給聯盟的主席啊我有他email跟whatsapp我給你自己用啊差不多就是一樣的意思所以呢兒少運動員是一個我們必須要採取積極措施的群體為什麼因為兒少在安全成長是他們理所應得的權益而不是把這些不被受傷要保護自己的責任跟工作丟給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9850.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9876.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以我想要問說要讓這些不適任的教練甚至於相關人員禁止接觸兒少活動的領域我只想問我們到底要做還是不要做舉例而言在美國比較稍有規模的比賽的時候相關的從業人員包含裁判場地記錄等等甚至於是要到附近的法院按耐指紋我整個系統還沒有很確定但是我知道我要去做這個動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9877.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9897.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
那這個動作有兩個意義第一個是我確定你是沒有這些相關的前科的第二個是我們都會知道你在從事兒燒運動員會接觸到兒燒運動的這份工作這是一個非常嚴肅的事情你不要有任何想要犯法的念頭因為這個責任跟後面的後果你承擔不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9898.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9925.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
所以我們該怎麼做很多前輩已經有給出很好的見解那我個人這邊還是在三個方面提出來第一個在教練課程的部分前面焦江航已經提到過我們現在真人研習的這些狀況我們還是希望說不管在教練跟裁判研習的時候我們能夠增加性平還有運動安全方面的專業課程第二個在聘任流程的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9927.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9940.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我们期待是有一个可以查询的资料库比方说你不管在申请工作或者是我们在换证等等在申请任何资料的时候你需要有应补齐的这些资料那应有补齐资料的时候 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9942.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9961.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
能不能在做這件事情的時候有所謂查核的資料庫還有所謂的勾擊的這種方式或者是就像是你會提出你的良民證等等你也有這樣的系統確認說你有去確認過他是沒有全科或是相關的犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9961.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9976.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
然後第三個是剛剛有提到說這些目前一些社團或者是即便是學校的一些狀況他們會有一個冒名改名字用人頭這種方式或是社團根本無法可管的方式那你 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9976.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10004.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
其實有些教練跟家長我們也想要去檢舉或do something可是問題現行來說的話你去檢舉也沒有意義也是沒有相關的罰則或什麼簡單講就是淡平良心但是這個東西不好找啊所以我想問我們能不能是類似像家暴法一樣如果當我知道他有相關的前科或者是犯的重刑到某種程度的時候如果他出現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10007.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10026.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
這樣子運動領域或者是校園的時候我可以如同家暴法一樣去報警然後請他必須離開這個領域我說這件事情很嚴肅的原因就是即便我知道那些犯這麼嚴重性侵的那個教練他現在出現在球場但我們也是無計可施你甚至於你要 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10027.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10053.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
你放心你的孩子讓這個教練指導我不放心讓我的孩子跟這樣的教練的球隊對打我不想要尤其是有些比賽的時候會牽扯到住宿我不想要發生任何的危險所以衛福部在昨天已經宣布將成立兒童與家庭署畢竟兒少法規是散落在各個單位那我們都知道兒少零容忍這現在已經是社會的共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10054.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10072.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
那在過往當中過往的歷史背景當中耳哨運動員對很多人來說你可能只是眾多選手質疑而且你可以隨意的拿捏因為反正這些小小運動員他能不能出賽他能不能接受培訓他能不能拿到資源都是你們這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10072.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10098.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
教練長官說了算但我們必須要了解兒少現在必須是國家政策的中心所以期待這次公聽會之後也期盼更希望我們未來修法之後我們接下來的政策能夠是以兒少為主體謝謝謝謝那接下來呢因為今天專家學者和委員都已經發言完抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10100.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10125.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
都已經發言完畢那另有柯知恩委員提出書面意見那現在請運動部代表回應好 委員還有在座所有的學者專家們大家好首先代表運動部真的非常非常的感謝大家今天所提出來的意見看法還有一些事實上我們目前沒有做好的地方這個是事實運動部絕對不會迴避 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10128.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10153.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
在部長交代我來出席這場公聽會的時候他清楚的交代我我們運動部對於這件事情將會以非常積極的角度各位過去所看到的一些狀況或許有一些好像感覺起來沒有那麼的積極我在這邊跟大家保證運動部將會非常積極的看待這件事情因此我將會要求我們今天有出席的同事們 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10153.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10172.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
在下個禮拜針對今天所有委員跟所有專家學者提出來的意見做對岸式的一個呼應做法在下個禮拜就要提出來我們會根據這些做法具體的擬定一些工作的方針希望能夠在今年年底以前做出一個很具體的方案出來以上報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10175.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10203.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
好 謝謝那我這邊也簡單說明一下那我因為對我來說就是說我們其實非常可以看見到過去台灣的整體文化來說其實並不是那麼重視兒童的休憩娛樂或者是運動那可是我們可以看到少子化但是俱樂部也好或參與各項運動的人其實是一直在增加的那我們也剛剛也聽如同這個李建新部署長也有提到就是說我們也看到越來越多的案例包含不管是成培委員 人本委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10203.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10220.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
人本這邊我們自己這邊經手的甚至是因為我自己的小孩就在足球場上我都會看到很多的有些教練是非常不適當的在對待小孩大吼大叫甩耳光都有我自己都會看到這些事情所以這個就是我進到立法院之後一直非常在乎的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10222.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10247.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
那我想就成如剛剛這個叫嘉宏秘書長說的身為一個家長我們去看竹協的網站其實我完全看不出來那個教練到底是誰那我想大家應該也可以理解家長心裡有多驚慌我不知道我的教練是不是那一個可能是犯了兒少性侵案性騷案的教練而我們現在卻無從得知那這件事情不管是在對於教育部也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10248.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10263.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
或者是過去的體育署也好我都質詢過非常非常多次那我剛剛非常高興的去聽到說我們的里洋部長有特別要求大家要積極的回應要展開 展新的做法那我也就非常期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10264.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10277.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
下個禮拜我收到的報告不會再是延續過去的以往的一貫的回應我希望可以看到更積極的做法特別是國體法的修法因為其實我已經提出我的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10278.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10295.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
那我過去也一直在要求過去的體育署應該要盡速的來去回運給予一個法源然後讓我們可以有一個法源的依據來去做相關的執行所以我也希望說運動部能夠盡快提出國體法及相關規例中 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10297.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10312.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
關於公告不適任教練名單的條文修正草案來建立一個明確的法源作為未來公告不適任教練名單的依據來完善兒少防護的一個機制那特別是我也要要求我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10314.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10336.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
這個運動部也要來去跟其他的部會來去做一些討論因為俱樂部並不是只有登記在所謂的教育部的體系之下也有可能是在經濟部然後過去一些街舞可能是在文化部所以不同的部會都應該要去仔細地來做討論我們還是要回到以兒少的運動來保護作為一個核心 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10337.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10353.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
再來第二個部分邀請運動部來研議民間運動場館不適任教練的防堵跟查核機制補齊制度的縫隙來落實全民性的運動環境安全再來第三個部分是剛剛大家一直在強調就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10355.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10371.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
很多的老師過去他可能並沒有得到一個很好的訓練並沒有符合現代體育的一個運動的一個方向所以對於這個兒少運動的相關課程我也希望可以看到明確的回應跟規劃然後來讓我們的教練有一個更好的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10372.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10383.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那最後一個就是申訴窗口這個申訴的機制到底應該如何建立我也希望在下一次報告裡面要來回應這件事情好那依據立法院職權行使法第58條規定委員會應與公聽會終結後10日內 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10388.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10399.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
依出席者所提供之正反意見提出公聽會報告送交本院全體委員及出席者第59條規定公聽會報告作為審查該特定議案之參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10405.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10428.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那我們也會把各位的發言意見及所有的書面資料綜合歸納會編成冊送交本院全體委員及所有出席的與會貴賓那最後也非常感謝今天大家出席公聽會那所提供的寶貴意見我們會審慎考量作為未來修法基據謝謝大家那我們要拍大合照嗎要嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10437.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10438.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
我們到前面來拍個大樓照好了 |