| IVOD_ID |
170379 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170379 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-26 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
26 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-08T12:40:18+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-08T12:58:35+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c82102ef57894fc717594701c2adc7b5d6a2bc2c552cdc9a7145f374a464778daf2145ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
葉元之 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:40:18 - 12:58:35 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告「少子化衝擊下國軍人力資源政策與未來因應規劃」，並備質詢。） |
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先請教一下 因為部長昨天有去那個屏東九鵬基地嘛去視導相關的生生飛彈的一些操演狀況想問說 就是昨天去 特別選在昨天去有沒有什麼特別的宣示的意義 有沒有 |
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因為它就是6號、7號、8號嘛,那我就選一天過去看一下這個相關的,因為有神宮跟神陰的草原,那特別就神宮草原的部分首次有人稀釋了無人刺針徽端的一個設計嘛。 |
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那我想去瞭解一下,而且幫部隊打氣一下然後也瞭解訓練的實況我們現在整體的狀況 |
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就訓練來看的話應該都是應該說按計畫執行那也達到這個訓練的一個成效那我想我們我看了以後我當然覺得我們可以再進一步的在 |
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密集的 不說更密集 應該是說訓練只有更好 沒有最好所以應該有關這些 譬如說我們首次這個人蜥市市長會擔任一個社級嘛那這個我在現場看到以後 我覺得應該可以在 |
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再更多的一個涉及的訓練那這第一個第二個當然要貼近更實戰化的一個一個一個一個場景裡面去做去做這樣子我覺得這個都是可以再進一步進進的那尤其人系社長當然這是首次嘛那我們去看我個人覺得他們的訓練都是很辛苦的然後要要賦予這樣子的一個一個一個 |
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追苗等等這些我在現場看到可以充分的感受到這個是不容易的一件事情所以要透過一個精實的訓練我對他們的受到這樣的精實訓練是感到蠻高興的好 謝謝部長接下來跟部長討論一下今天我們主題主要就是軍中人力的問題 |
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177.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為我們看到那個國防部送來的立法院的書面報告是有指出因為有這個薪資待遇調整的關係然後志願役的人力的成長有到五千人但是其實我在網路上面看到有很多軍中的弟兄蠻不以為然這件事情就是說這個五千是不是數字的美化可能部長還是要了解一下因為譬如說有人就講說那你就講到增加的他怎麼沒有講到跑到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
177.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
206.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
然後會不會半年後會有一些賠錢的新聞因為他們如果說欠人志願役如果提早離開可能又賠錢嘛然後還有會不會一種說法是增加近來60但是不市府的55%然後還有提醒要不要看一下報退的人數所以我覺得這個在給立法院報告的時候應該精準啦就是說當然也可能你們在真人的部分有成長可是那對整體的能力來說到底有沒有提升因為有進就有出嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
206.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
231.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
所以這個部分部長您的了解是怎樣?就整體剛剛其實由其他委員指教也就是說我們當然也有這個進來的當然也有出去的那總體來講還是增加了3000多個在114年的跟113年比較那所以總的來講還是呈現一個成長所以按照現在的做法之後應該還是會成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
233.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
258.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們總是要兢兢業業來從事各項的工作但總體來看當然就是說現在人數還是呈現成長另外一個就是戰鬥部隊的邊線比的問題因為雖然整體國軍來說是八成可是你看有一些特別特殊軍種的戰鬥部隊就比較差一點比如說像海軍的士兵現在的邊線比在陸戰隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
國防部戰砲各連手備運輸防空飛彈連才60.49%各艦隊的部隊的61.21%然後像戰術深舟大隊62.63%空軍的防空飛彈部隊才40.78%所以這個是非常的低那這個應該就是老問題了所以我不曉得國防部針對這些戰鬥部隊邊線比那麼低有沒有什麼比較具體的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
290.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
314.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
所以每一個單位,它的邊線比低的原因都要加以檢討嗎?對,因為這個應該...我舉個例子啦,比如說您講的各艦隊的,它士兵的這個部分的邊線比低啊,那就涉及到他們這個海情加急的這個部分,我們就必須要對這個部分來做以檢討,因為海情加急的部分在 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
315.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
325.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
士兵、士官、軍官是有些差異的那同樣大家都在艦隊上面服務那這個海警的這個家級的部我們就來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
326.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
354.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那這樣的話找出這個因為它士兵的邊線比較低嘛可是士官跟軍官的邊線比較高嘛所以我們就要找出這個理由然後再來提供所以部長你應該是已經找到理由了嘛現在只是說你什麼時候就每個各部隊對啦我意思是說我意思是說這其實不是新的數據啦應該這一兩年來每個各部隊都要主力來檢討對我部長應該是我的意思是說先執行的問題嘛因為這一兩年來應該很多人都跟你討論過這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
355.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
381.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
但是我現在問你 你還是說我們要找到原因然後有些原因你也是知道所以現在就是什麼時候要去實施嘛比如說你說各艦隊士兵的訓練比較低你什麼時候要實施的問題所以就是要跟人總已經在已經都討論了那你什麼時候要實施因為現在總體的整個方案我們總是要尊重人總 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
382.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
409.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那人總跟我們討論出確定了以後我才能夠對外所以你應該是這樣講就是說你現在已經有一個方案了也跟人總來討論了是然後所以只要人總同意OK就會都來公佈嘛所以這個東西是在進行當中啦是是是因為當時總議院副委的時候也是說我們辦年齡所以行政院現在有一體的軍控叫加薪那之外我們的各項加級那我們適切的去討論各項的原因那我們用加級都是包在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
410.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
426.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
軍公教加薪裡面嗎沒有沒有軍公教加薪我們是另外的所以他還會再找時間公布就對了對對我們總體討論以後有一個確定的方案我們就會來公布這樣子然後根據這個原因譬如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
427.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
445.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
像委員就指出來,如果各艦隊的部隊,他的士兵的邊線比跟士官跟軍官的邊線比低,那你要找出他的原因那你如果全部一體加志願役的加級的話,而沒有再特別去調整士兵的海潛的加級的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
449.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
477.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
可能還是沒有對症效藥所以我們必須要照顧到基層的士兵所以就海情的這個部分的加緊要有調整這個我都懂了啦因為剛剛都有講過我們現在講的是什麼時候要實施嘛那我現在抓一個時間如果我沒有理解錯誤的話你們已經把這些問題都跟人總討論過了嘛但是現在要尊重人總公佈的時程嘛我現在如果沒有理解錯誤應該是這樣嘛因為現在知道問題要知行合一嘛那接下來就是等人總公佈了 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
478.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
489.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
然後再來我再來問一下因為我現在看你們不市府就是剛剛講說有進有出不市府確實每一年逐年有在減少11年是3623112是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
493.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
520.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
到了3928但是到了113 114 115你看下滑蠻快的那應該是跟軍中目前調整一些生活起居的舒適度各方面管理可能有關但是還是要提醒一下部長因為也有一些在網路上看到有一些軍人的反應他說不市府的數量減少可能跟那個流程被卡住有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
521.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
540.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
像有人想要調職呢 就先擋 退伍也擋然後或者是說 已經明明跟負責人士幹部提出了 但偏偏都卡在沒有約談所以沒有辦法往下跑程序然後也有人提到就是說 這個報退程序可能會拖到一年以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
541.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
555.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那我是不曉得是不是有一個潛規則啦就是說有下令說有人假設要申請提早退伍的話是不是有說盡量在程序上慢一點然後讓這個數字好看有沒有這個潛規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
557.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
576.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
跟委員報告是這樣就是說第一個有一個是個案的問題一個是長期趨勢來看所以剛剛委員講的是個案我沒有辦法完全排除有這個可能性但是如果有發現這種狀況我們一定會下去處理但是您剛剛也提到如果你長年來看就是說已經三年了它都呈現下降趨勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
576.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
605.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那就表示說我們相關的一些政策作為是有效的因為你不可能說每一個報退的人他都他都被擋然後然後但是整體整年的還是呈現下降的趨勢這這個這個所以我們我當我國安部立場我說如果有個案發現那這個要去處理那國安部立場是在政策面上面去製造一個讓這個不適合的人數逐年下降的一個好的環境這是我們國安部應該有的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
605.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
630.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那如果說有個案因為個案多就變通案嘛所以你也要去了解一下說軍中有沒有說在人家報退的程序上故意卡人家盡量就不要卡這個當然都要都像如果看哪個單位嘛如果都要下去處理盡量去不要卡然後再來請教一下就是國防部有講說未來國軍將依科技取代人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
631.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
即火力取代傳統兵力兩大方向前進請問一下什麼科技取代人力是指什麼因為這個寫的比較抽象一點科技取代人力然後火力取代傳統兵力是指什麼我們請設計師 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
649.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
664.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
維吾爾市長 報告針對剛剛講的部分我們針對組織邊窗有做調整那在區分的幾個部分來跟你說明我們有區分無人系統那我們運用無人機跟無人的載具進行偵查還有警戒還有執行相關高風險的任務來減輕我們人員的負荷 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
668.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
694.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
在智慧監視的部分我們有裝了相關的監視系統還有AI的辨識影像來降低我們衛哨的相關人力在我們的邊磚也有做調整自動化的後勤我們有導入到智慧的倉儲裝備的管理等等來減輕我們重複性的行政作業減少我們的後勤人力的壓力還有相關的智慧指管等等這些都是我們現在在做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
694.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
706.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那這些做了之後可以將我們的組織再精進然後可以將我們的人力還有這些作業優化這是我們現在在做一個五年兵整的裡面規劃都已經完成相關的這些規劃所以到時候就可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
707.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
730.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
取代部分的人力嘛這個減少一些少子化的問題是這個意思應該是說可以取代大部分人力科技的運用它不是單純的採檢原格是將這些人力優先配置在我們需要的戰鬥部隊裡面這個是我們現在要重要的部長還有兩個小問題跟你請教一下因為我之前看到國防部要修改那個兵役的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
732.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
759.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
體位的規定就是本來85智商85以下是不用當兵那現在要調到剛剛已經說明了這個不確實85沒有調這個消息不確實不是不確實我還沒講完你可能是回答別的委員不是回答我我還沒講完85智商85以下是不用當兵但是你們現在還是要增級只是把70到85把它移過去當替代役 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
761.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
788.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
對啊你們就是配合內政部的修法嘛所以70到85還是要先增兵增兵完之後再把它分配到替代役嘛但其實我覺得這個你們要跟內政部講一下因為70到85智商7到85放在軍中大家也不放心嘛對不對所以你們覺得不可能嘛還是要維持智商85以上可是他們去做替代役也是一樣的狀況啊就變成說也是會增加很多比如說他的前輩要去照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
789.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
806.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
然後或者是到底指令能不能接受完整然後甚至於說因為他們這種特殊狀況然後去當替代役有時候人家還會打探說你是什麼病情來的也會影響到他個人的隱私啊所以我是覺得這個東西是還沒定案對不對還沒定案嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
811.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
840.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
報告委員這個部分來講我們常備役的部分的這個智力的部分是沒有調整的我知道啦我知道我現在是你們配合內政部調整嘛那我現在是說這個東西定案沒有嗎定案了嗎其實看看是不是可以跟內政部再討論一下因為這個可能也沒辦法補充多少替代役的人力但是可能會造成更多的問題這是不是可以再跟內政部溝通一下而且會造成一些徵兵的問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
842.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
842.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
不要不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
844.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
872.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
替代役的體會的部分呢因為國防部的立場是但我們都是兩部討論嘛兩個部會討論那麼我們常備役體會我們是由國防部來主責那替代役的部分由內政部那委員的意見我反映給那個內政部好不好好那第二個第二個問題因為我之前我本來有個提案一個想法就是說其實我們很多退伍的軍人不管軍官士官他們退伍以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
872.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
897.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
如果要再就業其實是可以幫國家做蠻多事情的啦我就舉一個例子啦有一個是退休的飛官他是原住民那他現在就在學校裡面教原住民語言但是他教了幾堂課之後很快就超過了他的再就業的薪資上限不能超過三萬八千一百三嘛好嗎 再一分鐘不能超過三萬八千一百三嘛所以我 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
898.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
922.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那之前本來有一個提案希望能夠打開這個天花板後來我跟其實蠻多的軍中的前輩討論過他們確實就是很多退伍的軍人比如說特戰部隊退伍下來他訓練有數訓練有數然後他他就可以到比如說一些特種營區去做比如說保全或什麼什麼的工作但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
923.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
950.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那個工作他又受到那個薪資上限的規定所以他們可能就到民間去做私人保全所以這個退伍軍人薪資再就業的天花板實際上限制了很多我們公家機關招攬那些退伍軍人的機會他們不來這邊其實他們也是可以去民間機關可是我們就喪失這個人才那我上次提這個案之後有很多民進黨立委罵說 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
952.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
960.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
這個其實我是想要解決人力的問題我是想解決讓我們的公家機關有更好的退伍的軍人退休軍公教可以再就業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
961.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
985.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
問題但是就被扭曲成說什麼要腹辟肥貓我根本沒必要腹辟人貓啊現在肥貓也是民進黨在養啊關我什麼事我就只是想要我就只是想要解決能力的問題讓優秀的退伍軍人可以載到公部門來服不管當教官也好或當訓練的訓練人也好所以部長這個我不知道可不可以請國防部來研究一下就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
986.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1015.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
可以假設我剛剛講的那個動機目的是可以解決一些人力問題然後又不要讓社會上面民進黨那些人扣帽子說是在養肥貓能不能請國防部研究一個平衡點就是說退伍軍人他要再就業他的薪資天花板要定在多高一方面可以滿足人力的需求另外一方面又不會被人家認為是雙薪的肥貓部長這個可不可以幫忙研議一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1018.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1040.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
公園報告下我是志願司司長當初會有這樣子的訂定其實也是在立法院就是之前在審議的時候就是有討論到雙薪的問題所以後來現在訂了這樣的一個天花板那至於這樣子的一個需求我想我們還是要跟退府會然後一起來跟社會要一起來研商也要取得社會的一個共識來進行相關的一個處理以上報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1041.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1059.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
你不用雙薪 肥貓應該都薪水很高嘛那你今天如果說我剛剛講的比如說他是退伍的然後他去學校講原住民語言他薪水可能四萬塊五萬塊而且是憑自己的勞力對不對 付出我覺得這樣子要把人家講成是雙薪肥貓是有點太過了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1060.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1073.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以我是希望國防部可以訂一個標準就是什麼情況之下其實是符合正常的勞力社會的付出什麼情況之下你們會認為說那是肥貓是不是可以訂一些樣態跟標準出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1076.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1094.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
因為這個部分其實軍公教都是有一致的規範就是不光是退伍軍人其實退伍的公教人員也是一樣所以這個部分可能我們還是要能夠跟相關部會一起來協商包括退伍會然後要有一個社會的一個共識那你就可以了那你就去跟退伍協商了好 謝謝那就跟退伍協商了好 謝謝 |