| IVOD_ID |
170339 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170339 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-08T10:22:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-08T10:41:03+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:56 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4fafa81be08c82103aae1a3175a8aabf8c89d092fec882f4a89c27feb000dbf5071eed9bfd46deff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王育敏 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:22:07 - 10:41:03 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：邀請衛生福利部部長、教育部及經濟部就「食安問題爆不停，如何構建使國人安心生活就學與食品廠安全管理精進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
討論事項
審查
一、委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十四條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。
二、委員蘇清泉等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
三、委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四條條文修正草案」案。
四、委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
五、委員翁曉玲等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
六、委員黃健豪等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
七、委員羅智強等29人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
八、委員黃健豪等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
九、委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第十五條條文修正草案」案。
十、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第四十五條條文修正草案」案。
十一、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十二、委員王育敏等17人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法部分條文修正草案」案。
十三、委員林倩綺等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十四、委員陳超明等16人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第五十六條之一條文修正草案」案。
十五、委員黃健豪等23人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條、第二十八條及第三十一條之一條文修正草案」案。
十六、委員張嘉郡等28人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。
十七、委員王育敏等19人擬具「食品安全衛生管理法第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答，討論事項僅詢答】
【討論事項第十七案，如經復議則不予審查】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
5.441 |
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6.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
13.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
35.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
部長我手上這兩個飯糰這個是今天早上還買到的富航豆漿在超商裡面的飯糰但是它赫然出現在你昨天晚上的名單當中我請問你我買了這兩顆飯糰還可以吃嗎還可以吃嗎要看是不是那個批號有一個日期 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
36.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
63.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那我消費者我怎麼你不是說全面下架嗎那到底這一款的還可不可以吃你們下架完畢了沒我問你啊這個是由地方去執行啦那我們都會讓他知道是哪一批製造日期到什麼時候那我現在我是消費者我就問你嘛我今天早上買到的這個飯糰昨天出現在你的名單當中這不會在市場上這個一定都是安全不是那一批啦不是我們公布的所以是可以吃的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
64.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
75.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
完完全全安心可以吃所以你昨天晚上公布那一波的名單那到底是什麼時候不能吃的因為裡面有非常多上班族都憤怒了喔這一些飯糰是他會買的便當也是他會買的但是都 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
79.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
107.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
都在你昨天晚上裡面中標的名單當中所以我就要問說現在請問現在超商上面所販售的你昨天所公布的這些品項通通都是合格安全的嗎啊你不是說通通都要下架因為那些油都已經沒有再用了已經都回收了嘛所以他這個做出來的都是已經安全可用那所以你們昨天公布的那一批的用意是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
107.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
128.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那是之前因為我們把他整個產品所以你掛保證現在開始超商上面所販售的這些飯糰都是安全無虞的可以掛保證嗎那些飯糰我們後面都有加注他都已經超過已經那個是即食品所以日期都已經過了所以現在在架上的都是安全的 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
128.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
153.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
都是安全的不用再下架了接下來我要問你喔這個泰山有新增一批超標的這個產品今天最新昨天晚上通報給你們對不對請問這一批的數量有多少然後流向到哪裡那現在我們正在跟這個彰化縣衛生局一起在調查當中到現在沒有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
155.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
175.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
平常不是都應該有做記錄嗎數量有多少目前的這個潮是哪一個潮出來已經知道了那現在在查那個批次出來的批次跟他的流向現在在查流向 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
176.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
所以一波未平一波又起看起來不只是中聯這一批的油有問題這個會不會是系統性的風險我要問你的就是現在彰化先查出來這個也是中聯的油也是中聯的油那是中聯黃豹嗎他說他只有那一批是有問題那就不止囉因為我們現在正在驗他所有的每一批那這一批是什麼時候製造的六月以後製造的嗎不是五月間製造的 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
221.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
五月間製造然後一樣沒有驗出來所以這個品管真的是非常非常的有問題嘛廠商自己自主驗都驗不出來這個才是問題是所在啊應該是這樣講就是說過去呢沒有要求到逐批檢驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
222.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
244.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
所以它是抽樣的而且半年才驗一次嘛 是不是對 所以這個頻率就是我們在提的現在要提高那個抽驗的比喻還有頻率 還有批次啦這真的要加嚴啊我們完全靠業者自主現在的情況就是業者不可靠啊他的自主沒有到位嘛所以才產生這一次這麼大的一個食安風暴嘛接下來我要問你的是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
249.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
264.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
你去分這個第一層第二層喔如果你剛剛講的說哎呀我這個都是有道理的齁7月4號還專家會議那你為什麼昨天生急急忙忙跑去署長的這個記者會然後就說通通給我下架為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
265.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
287.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為地方政府跑在你前面啦在你中央不宣布的時候台中市政府台北市政府都已經告訴民眾說一滴油都不可以我就是全部通通下架這就是展現一種鐵腕跟決心嘛這個整個食安其實就是零容忍啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
288.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
309.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
你怎麼可以允許他的成分裡面有明明知道然後就說沒有關係因為稀釋了哦這個對人體這個沒有關係你7月4號的那個會議就是一個錯誤的決策接下來我要問你是卓榮泰院長他說他人家老早他就有指示了他有召開會議他說他上個禮拜五 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
311.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
327.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
有找相關部會開會但是神奇了我今天看到食安辦的報告裡面沒有這個會議沒有提到7月3號有院長召開的會議食安辦提到的陳時中政委召開的跨部會會議是7月7號 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
329.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
355.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
請問7月3號你們有參加嗎?誰參加?食安辦有參加嗎?衛福部有參加嗎?7月3號主要是我們跟院長報告這個事件目前的處理情形那麼以及我們會在召開專家會議有哪些部會?沒有就主要是只找部長喔對 食藥署跟主要是我們去報告我們只要叫做召開會議喔對我覺得卓院長也未免太美化自己了吧隨便找一個部長來問幾句話然後就說我有召開會議沒有沒有 那也有相關其他的有做成會議紀錄嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
357.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
376.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
開了多久這個我沒有因為是在你不敢回答因為就只是叫你去聊一聊而已嘛沒有我們去跟他報告那他知不知道當時你有告訴他第二層不用下架不用前面下架我們有報告說我們的這個處理的原則不是我們的處理原則是根據106年所以他也同意啊對不對食品安全風險評估的諮議會所訂出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
386.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
413.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
7月3号你跟卓院长报告他也同意你这么做嘛不是所以院长有指示说应该要再考虑所以我们才会在隔天就召开专家会议重新再去检视当时候所定下的这一个这个处理原则是不是有需要修正的必要7月4号你们一样不用全部下架你们开完会一样不用全部下架因为这个专家会议的结果然后总统对外宣誓的也是很 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
416.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
438.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
總統對外宣誓的原則 他還是很開心說那個第二層就沒有達到20%的 這個也不用下架他對外還是這樣子講所以你們根本就是後知後覺是地方政府跑在你們前面 你們看苗頭不對了才緊急的昨天晚上你衝到這個署長的記者會說通通都給我下架就是這樣子嘛不是 這個因為這個專家的會議是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
441.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
456.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那但是我也了解在地方執行上呢它面臨到有一些行政上它的複雜度所以我最後才決定雖然專家認為這樣是在風險上的考量是可接受的那但是在行政的執行面上 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
457.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
486.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
為了讓他能夠更迅速所以我才做這個決定你們這個就是7月4號根本就是一個錯誤的決定一開始大家對於食安是零容忍就是全面下架沒有任何的理由這樣子民眾才能安心但是你們變成一變再變一變再變然後導致到現在你還沒有辦法全部下架完成一言再言這個就是你們決策上面的一個疏失接下來我要追問的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
490.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
494.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這1300噸的油的流向已經都百分之百掌握了嗎?已經百分之百掌握了嗎?呃 都掌握了你們現在數字都兜的起來了嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
503.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
524.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
因為它的油有的是變成加工食品那個就沒有辦法算頓了就是我們現在是第二層的所以所有的流向你都掌握了對 就是泰山福茂 福壽這些都掌握多少量都有了那它提供出去那你今天的報告為什麼不提出來產生的這個產品我們的項目也都 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
526.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
545.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
調查清楚之後公布在我們的網路全部公告出來包括數量包括那個流量這個第一個我要指導第二個我統計過我去調那個資料今年1到5月份我們巴西進口的黃豆總共有59.9萬噸請問這59.9萬噸有多少進入了中聯 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
555.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
573.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
中聯的進口我們有查到他的巴西豆的量多少這個詳細的數字在詳細的數字我們去確認的數字這個是非常關鍵你們還不知道美國豆一部分是巴西豆我們就來確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
574.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
你們不是說是巴西豆含水量高嗎它是有兩種它這一次的這個中聯用的油它有美國進口的 它巴西豆多少它有美國的豆跟巴西的豆所以你不知道 到現在不知道這一點就是我今天要追查的 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
592.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
609.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
高達59.9萬噸的巴西黃豆我要知道它的流向到了哪裡顯然你們查了一個禮拜現在都沒有掌握流向如果這59.9萬噸你們之前對外講的因為巴西的黃豆 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
609.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
633.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
含水量高所以他的那個烘焙中間過程會產生致癌物的這個風險比較高在經濟部今天的報告裡面告訴大家說台糖用的是美國豆所以比巴西豆風險來的低如果這個假設成立的話我要追的就是那這個風險高的巴西豆流到哪裡去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
634.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
661.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
只留到中聯嗎這59.9萬噸其他的巴西豆還有哪一些留到哪裡你這個要問誰誰可以告訴我們那個流向是哪一個部會要負責這是源頭管理喔如果你們現在已經推論到巴西黃豆可能是有問題的那要去追啊這59.9萬噸到目前為止到五月份為止量這麼高跑去哪裡了只有進去中聯這一家嗎有沒有進到其他的煉油廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
664.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
679.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
或者是到其他的通路 有沒有跟古人說明的話我們主要是針對另外還有三家煉油廠去了解那麼他們用的豆主要都是以美國豆為主有沒有混到巴西豆好像目前的了解沒有嘛 主要是你們有沒有抽菸 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
681.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
698.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
跟委員報告那關於這個巴西豆的部分呢其實在這個河川採購的時候應該有些因為他是單半球的部分所以他有季節性有些廠商他會去河川採購美國跟巴西的對 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
700.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
726.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那但是呢在這三中聯以外的三家煉油廠裡面他們的自主管理其實做的是比中聯還要來得好因為在整個製程裡面他從原料驗收到毛油產生之後他還會再去做檢驗那檢驗到最後在整個後續的脫色脫臭跟這個脫色的過程當中他就會把這樣的一個物質把它降低到最好的一個限量標準以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
726.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
741.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
所以他一樣有進巴西豆對不對只是他的製程比較好那你們有去抽驗他的這其他電油廠他的品質嗎基本上我們在進口的部分我們在邊境也是在抽驗中因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
742.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
767.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
豆子的過程它還有保存的問題所以第一個我們是從源頭在邊境就會去查驗所以邊境我們從112年1月到115年6月間那麼其實我們都在邊境有一些抽驗但是你過去的抽驗也沒有解決中聯但是呢因為到了製程端因為它這中間還有保存所以製程端過去你們沒有加強查驗嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
768.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
780.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
端是最重要那麼製成端在原料的部分是要驗的所以他才會有第一次他的檢驗是合格的他4月份他也有驗這一批那他驗出來是合格但是因為後面這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
782.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
810.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
變成成品的部分到下游的時候才驗出反回來驗出說它這個油有問題我們現在才回頭來檢視那它的豆子既然驗第一次又是合格但是第二次又是不合格就表示說它的這個品質混因為它有混它有混這個美國豆跟巴西豆的那這個檢驗上的抽樣採樣是不是要調整所以這個就是現在目前在調查當中的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
811.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
814.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我覺得我們對於那個自由的過程那個品管喔光靠廠商自律是不夠的這次已經告訴我們光靠廠商自律是不夠的所以我要問你的是我們政府的責任我們的他律機制未來你怎麼樣加嚴在整個從進口原料到他的製程他的產製的過程當中都應該要有政府的角色就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
837.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
842.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
他方的他綠的這個檢驗機制我覺得一定要雙管你才有可能確保這些油品的品質要不然你這個整個上游的油品一出問題之後你看你這次1300噸你現在回收率不到3%啊幾乎都已經下渡了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
855.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
877.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我們現在是要把他三級評管要再檢討啦過去我們有三級評管一個就是他自己的自主檢驗第二個是送外部檢驗第三個是後市場檢驗所以有這三級評管那麼第一個就是他自主檢驗的部分要在哪一些節點要檢驗那麼檢驗的方式抽樣的細部規定這個是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
878.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
896.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我要求你們要有一個很完整的檢討報告今天的報告只有266個字精進作為我算過266個字這不叫精進作為這比小學生的作文那個字數還要少我剛講的這個品管的要求你這一個從你的進口 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
898.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
909.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
源頭還有整個製程的過程你的這個加研的機制改善的機制我要求這個要做成一個非常完整的報告這個我們會整個檢討完之後會把這個三級評管那麼會重新再檢討這個我要求另外一個關於通報機制失靈這件事情這個是一個很大的問題這個食安法裡面第七條第五項 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
922.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
937.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
要求食品業者你一旦發現有危害安全衛生之虞要主動停止製造而且還要通報主管機關但是這次的事件我們發現通通都沒有做到而且還隱匿偷偷開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
938.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
953.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
然後好像自己要私了 自己解決這個通報機制完全失靈啊這怎麼辦這個江署長剛剛有委員說你在擔任學者的時候就有看到這個問題你擔任署長也解決不了這個業者不自主通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
954.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
979.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這個要怎麼處理 而且源頭喔這一次油品的問題告訴大家什麼它源頭有問題 因為它會混油它混到其他產品會有比例的問題你從市場的後端末端你的查驗是查不出來的 沒有問題的因為被混掉了所以針對源頭的這邊廠商又不願意自主通報的時候請問你的機制是什麼在這件事情上面第一個呢 這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
980.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1008.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
自主檢驗的部分還是要強化而且頻率要增加或批次增加這個都要強化那麼自主檢驗之外呢還要有要求外部檢驗他要送外部所以這是第二層外部檢驗那用這兩個來強化那麼當然除了對於沒有誠實通報的那麼要加重處罰之外另外也要有催哨者條款這是我們從過去幾次的慈安檢驗催哨者條款已經存在啦催哨者條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1009.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1023.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
過去也會發生過作用針對這些重大的我上次已經講過這些重大的原物料的是最上游的這些廠商你不能放任他只有自主檢驗機制你絕對還要有第三方 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1026.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1053.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
由政府委託公先力去抽驗的機制你這樣子才可以及時你的抽驗也是讓他不敢去怠惰你現在完全放任自主管理就是沒有辦法達到這樣的一個功能業者都擔心損失的情況底下他就選擇隱匿他就選擇延遲但是始終犧牲的就是人民的健康跟委員說明因為我們現在就是開始做這樣的事情就是我們現在對另外這三家已經強化由我們食藥組的同仁去 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1057.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1074.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
去抽煙 去送煙了這未來就會變成常態機制這個不是只是個案這必須變成是一個NL車以後就會變成常態而且要變成是有法律 有法則因為這個上游就是這四家主要的煉油廠 這四家所以這個未來我們就會融入成常規性的外部抽煙 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1075.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1093.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好 這個部分我要求經過這一次這麼重大的這個食安事件我覺得民眾真的很恐慌那民眾對食安的標準只會越來越嚴格這一次所有的缺漏都應該要完成然後你們要寫成最完整的這個檢討報告絕對不是今天敷衍委員會266個字的精進作為這個我們完全沒有辦法接受守護食安這個是大家責任而且中央我最後提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1104.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1133.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
在那個過程當中未來我們會把它強化在那個過程當中有地方政府他們願意多做事你們食藥署還告訴人家說不用啊幹嘛一直去那個廠商的連結沒有沒有沒有我們跟中央我們跟中央都是密切在合作中央地方是密切合作的地方要願意多檢查多做事中央不可以還擺出官威說中央跟地方都是緊密在合作的這個大家都是一起如果有請改正好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1134.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1134.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
好 謝謝王燕鳴委員的質詢 |