| IVOD_ID |
17032 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17032 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-13T08:39:35+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-13T11:55:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:15:25 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea9bd2a7f32a503ebbb38b9faf3bb88021914d0d15f34b2c020f752736a8cf0c335ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部、財政部、數位發展部、金融監督管理委員會、交通部就「普發現金一萬元之跨部會防詐及查緝作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。【11月12日及13日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:39:35 - 11:55:00 |
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那我們現在繼續開會進行本日的議程報告事項請宣讀邀請內政部財政部數位發展部金融監督管理委員會交通部就普發現金1萬元至跨部會防詐及查緝行為進行專題報告並被質詢宣讀完畢我們先來介紹在場的委員及列席的官員那首先介紹我們的召委王美惠召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1508.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1533.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
黃婕委員李柏毅委員那今天到場的觀眾有內政部的常務市長吳唐安財政部國庫署的副署長林秀燕數位發展部數位政府司的市長王承明 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1537.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1548.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
金融監督管理委員會銀行局的副局長王允忠中華郵政股份有限公司副總經理陳棟良接下來我們請內政部長吳長務次長吳唐安報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1572.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1585.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
主席各位委員女士先生今天應邀列席貴委員會工作報告並被質詢首先誠摯感謝各位委員對於我們普發現金防詐及查緝工作的關注跟重視那也期盼給予我們一些策略跟指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1587.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1614.682 |
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行政院推動補發現金的政策是為落實全民共享經濟成果來強化社會韌性的一個重要施政那為詐欺集團常常借政府的惠民政策名義來設計詐騙話術或偽冒政府官方的網站的一個行騙那為了使政策每一不會被扭曲在行政院督導之下我們也結合有關部會跟地方政府來建立補發現金防詐安全防範的機制從預警研判 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1615.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1630.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
市詐宣導到偵查主詐那形成一個完整的防護鏈來確保民眾的安全來領取政府的補助那來避免詐欺的危害那以下就由內政部來執行普發現金一萬元的防詐及查緝作為提出一個專案的一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1632.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1650.924 |
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在建立普帕現金的一個安全防範的機制跟防詐作為行政院的打擊詐欺的指揮中心在我們今年的9月8號也跟內政部來研商可能的詐騙的太陽跟防制的作為那也在今年的9月24號由行政院來召集財政部 內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1651.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1673.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
通常會抒發部還有經管會法務部教育部及經濟部等機關來共同檢視各部會的一個防制的措施的規劃跟執行的情形並要求各部會能夠切實合作共同防堵詐欺的案件的發生在防制成效部分我們內政部警政署已經在今年的9月11號也要求各警察機關來籌組專案小組來針對普發現金的一個發放政策來加強收報詐欺廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1681.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1705.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
廣告簡訊還有我們的社群媒體的帳號跟網站來阻斷我們所有的詐欺的一個資訊來源那我們也積極的一個溯源偵辦相關的案件從今年的9月12號到11月10號止我們總共通報移除的社詐廣告是56則停權社詐的帳號50個收報停止解析委貿財政部的網站有三件 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1707.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1718.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
那在市詐的宣導作為部分我們從多元的市詐宣導的推波警政署在防制普發現金衍生的詐騙手法在今年普發現金1萬元相關消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1720.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1737.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
公開之後我們就進行了一個事大的宣導那也製作宣傳的一個影片來喊請各縣市政府有線電視 協會各大銀行及合作的廣告商來協助加強的推播那我們也更與財政部來建立聯繫管道來交換雙方的一個宣導的素材 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1737.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1759.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
也形成我們跨部會的宣導統計到今年11月10號我們共計發送了2178則的新聞跑馬燈各式宣傳的影音然後圖文曝光次數共達到4597萬次在電視及網路的通路宣導部分為了要最大化的宣導觸及面所以我們警政署從 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1760.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1779.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
11月2號起就運用了114年的一個經費採購的電視跟網路通路推播我們本內政部的警政署來製作宣傳影片那也在包括多個電視頻道還有Facebook Instagram YouTube跟Google及各大的新聞的網路平台來做推播 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1780.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1794.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那另外在地方電台的一個通路強化高齡族群的試炸宣導部分警政署也特別提出了一個加強長者的普發現金小公率及地方電台的防炸的宣導建議那我們也規劃採購北南部的合計32家 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1796.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1821.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
廣播電台通錄有35天的檔期那直播國語 台語 客語來普發現金做反詐騙的一個宣導影音檔那我們預計會在這個11月中旬就會開始來執行那我想廣告期間至少有所有的電台刊播會有60個檔次以上的一個反詐的廣告宣導那另外我們也跟財政部做相關的素材交換在雙方的電台的廣播 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1822.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1836.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
的一個音檔部分來確保範圍能夠覆蓋到全台灣那另外也考慮到我們普發現金都已經實施了所以我們也先行將反詐騙的宣導影音也提供給我們警察廣播電台那從11月5號已經開始做播放 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1837.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1865.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
在建制165的打詐儀表板的普發現金防詐專區我們也提供了最新的新聞跟資訊來及時揭露最新詐騙手法及防範重點那包括圖卡 影片同時我們也依照行政院的指示來分享普發現金官方網站的資訊來供各級政府跟民間團體來使用在積極查緝跟普發現金相關的詐欺案件及跨部會合作部分我們自本年的9月政府開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1866.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1887.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
籌備我們普發現金工作開始之後警政署就已經簽持續做積極的追蹤跟有關普發現金的相關詐欺跟被害案件那也積極的去溯源來偵辦統計到今年11月10號我們總共有七件的一個被害案件發生其中一件是釣魚案件那另外四件是假冒檢警 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1889.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1907.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
還有兩件是所謂的騙取金融帳戶的部分那相關的財損的部分釣魚網站的財損是5萬那另外假冒檢警的部分是822萬另外騙取金融帳戶就是卡片的部分的財損是0元那在建立跨部會的一個快速通報下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1908.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1932.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
涉詐的廣告機制跟溯源的查緝我們警政署也在今年7月12號就接獲檢舉之後在社群網路流傳有民眾接獲假冒中央存保公司發送的一個普發1萬元的釣魚連結那我們也迅速的將該假冒網站通報下架也交由刑事警察局來主動調查那在7月21號已經查獲假基地台的設備發送該釣魚簡訊的一個範寫 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1937.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1954.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
另外在跨部會合作的部分在今年的8月20號我們抒發部也召集了我們本部跟相關的一個部會來共同延商普發業務偉茂網站快速的RPZ程序的一個會議那我們也決議如果有發現到有偉茂 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1955.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1973.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
發放現金的網站會由財政部來配合財經資訊公司來主動收報也與我們的臺灣網路資訊中心來研議快速下架的一個通報流程那另外也速發部也會召集相關的單位來建置整合機制來說短整個的處理時效介於 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1974.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1998.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我想普發現金的政策是惠及全民也促進社會共享但同時也可能會成為炸雞集團的一個寄餘的目標所以為了維護民眾的財產安全我們內政部也將持續依循行政院的一個整體打炸策略方向來深化跨部會的協調合作運用情資分析跟科技增防的手段強化預警 主炸跟偵辦的效能 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1999.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2018.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們也更配合各地方政府及相關機關來推動市詐 宣導跟防詐的教育來提升民眾的辨識能力跟防範的意識來確保政府補助政策能夠安全落實保障民眾權益來維護我們社會整體的安全跟信任那以上報告也敬請主席及各位委員指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2026.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2049.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
謝謝吳次長的報告那現在其他單位的報告請委員自行參閱並刊登公報那現在進行答詢 委員答詢前原例做幾點宣告1 每位委員發言時間本會委員4分鐘 必要使得延長2分鐘非本會委員4分鐘 上午10點30分截止發言登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2052.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2077.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那本次會議我們不處理臨時提案請問各位有沒有意見沒有那我們現在進行答詢請登記第一位的李博義委員發言有請吳長次還有警政署副署長請以上官員列席 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2080.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2105.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
市長我們兩天一次會昨天是陸委會那大家聚焦在一個焦點就是立法院中華民國台灣的國會議員在被對岸被中國被外國通緝全球通緝的事情那我想問你外國對台灣有什麼管轄權 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2107.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2130.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
謝謝委員指教我們中華民國是獨立的國家任何其他世界各國發布全球通緝有什麼效力我覺得這是個很不恰當的行為而且完全不能干涉到本國沈博洋委員現在仍在德國在中國發布全球通緝之後沈博洋委員非常勇敢現在仍在德國 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2131.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2150.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
參加獨裁國家對假資訊獨裁國家的假資訊對於民主跟人權的威脅聽證會那他做出最好的證人的這個聽證他說了This is Taiwan, this is freedomand we will never back down我們永遠不會退縮跟妥協那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2153.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2178.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個對於我們整個台灣的人權以及我們民主的殿堂對於所有的台灣人來說我們都是沈伯陽我們都會挺他那所以我想在這邊對內政部來說這個非常重要的這一段話那也希望全國的國人一起來挺沈伯陽 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2180.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2209.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
今天主席所排的議程是這個普發現金可能會有的這些詐騙的這些事項所以我特別也請這個警政署這邊來署長副市長李副市長我請問你普發現金有幾個管道剛原報告目前是有四個管道是哪一個管道最容易會有詐騙的行為依照我們目前來看最容易發生詐騙行為的是網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2212.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2226.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
對長者來講我要講的就是數位落差對年輕人來講我要講的是就是副市長你講的網路網路最重要的我覺得要呼籲所有的我們所有網路使用者最重要最後要有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2228.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2253.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
一定要看到這一個啦這一個才是政府的這個網頁所以你這樣點進去連結才不會會點到別的地方去但是另外對長者其實我會建議哪一個是對長者最有利的方式來副市長對長者的部分數位落差他最不會使用手機最不會使用網路他要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2254.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2282.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們認為透過有幾個管道電視電視的一個宣導是一個管道沒有沒有我說長者要怎麼去領長者領因為長者每天看電視說什麼網路要怎樣要怎樣有什麼管道我會建議長者如果懂ATM的話或者到油局去登記去登記領的話會比較好可不可以直接到油局領就好我建議是如此這樣是最好的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2283.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2301.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
雖然會增加郵局的負擔但是最好的方式其實對長者來講身份證、證件帶著去郵局領領現金這是最好的方式謝謝副長你稍等我要請這個金管會對不起速發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2312.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2336.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我在選區裡面然後收到很多的這個陳情高利貸的簡訊的借款非常可怕他幾乎後來經過這個刑事局跟警政署這邊的調查你幫我看一下一整排16個借款資訊不斷的發到他的這個簡訊的系統裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2341.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2368.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那他是一個職業軍人他完全他他就打這些電話全部都是匿名然後這些人可能就跟他約在這個他的基地的對面的7-11全家等等這些直接交付現金然後簽了本票他有可能就是實拿13萬然後簽了30萬的本票這樣一列下來後來警政署查證刑事局查證之後是同一個集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2369.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2398.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
但是速發部這一邊卻沒有辦法對於這個簡訊的出資人跟資金來源做審核那審核到的是什麼審核到的是反而是有一些商店或者是有一些店家或者甚至有一些簡訊的這些發放的這個要申請的這些流程速發部你回去應該要好好檢討一下這一些事情你看左邊這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2399.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2423.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你的評分通過60萬然後月付多少的這些我們並沒有對於他的簡訊的廣告業者規範他的出資人我覺得這一個就是同樣一個詐騙集團他可以同時買了可能10個簡訊的帳戶然後同時一直發放用不同的這個帳戶的名稱一直發放給某一些特定人 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2424.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2440.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
讓這些特定人受到這些高利貸的侵蝕蘇發部跟警政署應該要共同來研議怎麼樣防堵這些簡訊的系統再去危害國人好 謝謝委員提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2444.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2468.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
針對這個部分的話因為我們今天是另外一個素產署在負責那我們回去會把委員的意見跟我們素產署這邊來做一個這個傳達好那請你一個月內跟警政署共同給我一個方案謝謝好謝謝李博義委員的發言接下來請蘇巧惠委員發言不好意思張志龍委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2487.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2503.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好 謝謝主席各位委員 各位官員 大家早有請內政部吳次長請吳次長委員好好 次長早次長 我想要請教一下我們現在有一個新的獎勵辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2505.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2529.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
的這個條文叫做防制詐欺犯罪有功人員及檢舉人獎勵辦法條文請問一下這個新的這個辦法什麼時候核定的我這邊是不是請警政署說明一下報告委員是10月1號發布的 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2531.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2558.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
10月1號發布的嘛齁在這個10月1號發布那我現在手上拿到內政部發的函是9月10號警政院在9月10號發給內政部所以要拜託這個次長齁這件事情我覺得非常重要因為這件事情就代表我們現在喔其實針對我本席一直關心的這個要防制詐欺犯不管對於我們的基層的同仁警員 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2559.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2581.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
或者是現在民眾或者是內部的吹哨者在針對這些詐欺防治的時候如果有去做檢舉這麼辛苦的一個工作應該有相對應的報酬我覺得這樣會比較好可是我現在就像剛剛次長回應我的請問一下現在基層員警對於這件事情的熟悉度高嗎請問你們已經有通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2582.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2609.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我們現在有這樣子犯罪有工人員及檢舉人獎勵辦法的條文跟內容有沒有發到各個分局各派出所已經發了嗎什麼時候發的好謝謝委員指教我想剛剛委員說那個檢證署報導我們是9月我們在10月1號就已經訂定發布實施這是第一個那剛剛針對基層同仁的部分其實我們也已經在10月20號就已經函班這個相關的注意事項讓各地方的警察局 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2609.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2627.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
然後來窒息整個清零獎金的方式那也特別在謝謝市長因為我問基層很多同仁他們對這個方法相當不熟悉你可不可以簡單敘述一下這個辦法到底在講什麼內容我是不是請警政署可以請警政署上來講一下因為我認為很多人還不知道這個現在到底我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2628.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2645.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
要防治詐欺犯我們的獎金的制度到底是什麼是不是可以簡單說一下跟委員報告那就是有重大的查獲重大的詐欺起訴15人以上就有查緝獎金跟檢舉獎金那檢舉獎金最高是可以達到1000萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2647.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2674.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好我簡單來講就是您剛我特別幫你解釋一下就是如果是民眾或是內部吹哨者檢舉叫做檢舉獎金如果是三年以上未滿五年的徒刑他的這個獎金的金額是五十萬到一百萬那五年到七年的是一百萬到一百五十萬因為這個是比較容易見到那當然是要判到十五年以上有期徒刑才會獎金才會到七百萬到一千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2676.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2704.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
所以我覺得這是第一個重點那對警察同仁的獎金那是不是可以請你說明一下剛剛講的是這個民眾跟吹哨者那對於警察同仁機車同僚同仁破獲犯罪集團的獎金的內容大概是怎麼樣各位報告我們同仁如果破獲這個詐騙集團我們也是依照新的辦法就是依照破獲集團的規模大小那獎金呢是從 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2707.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2731.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
最高的獎金可以到達600萬團體獎金最高到600萬這才是我今天要特別質詢的問題所以現在我在本席一直拜託行政院要趕快把這個獎金的制度發放確認了以後我想要請教現在從您剛剛說10月1號發布以後到現在已經11月多了有發放了多少獎金 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2733.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2751.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
跟委員報告因為我們顧及這個獎金發放的一個標準客觀的標準所以我們這個辦法裡面是案件必須起訴以後檢察官起訴以後才會發給這個獎金那因為才在10月中旬做了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2752.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2778.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
整個這個獎金制度的一個通知所以今天到目前一個月所以目前獎金是還沒有發放現在已經11月已經有申請的案件所以你的意思是說這一個多月來這筆獎金一塊錢都還沒有發對因為必須等到案件起訴這是一個要件我們警察機關可能破很多案件移送到地檢署以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2778.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2805.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
檢察官會做一個起訴的動作那到起訴的時候來請教次長次長你聽到這樣的回應你覺得能接受嗎我們現在都已經把相關的這個獎勵辦法都已經這個行政院都已經核准在我們委員大家共同的努力之下結果一個多月來結果獎金發放的金額居然是零請問這個次長這個就要由您來協助了一個多月來難道都沒有任何的 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2806.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2821.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
難道都沒有任何的起訴是不是我簡單跟委員報告我想10月1號是公佈實施警政署也在10月底的署務會議也要求所有的各地方政府的警察局要有知道這個宣導的事項我想剛剛副署長談的就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2823.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2839.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
可能在程序上有一次是要成案之後起訴才可以開費不過這個回去我會請警政署來進出因為過去就警政署而言我們都有編那些專案嘛對不對比如說就是檢舉完了以後他可以馬上拿到錢的這些專案所以我們現在已經給你一個這麼大的一個這個獎勵檢舉的辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2841.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2864.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
結果一個多月來居然沒有人可以拿到任何一塊錢的檢舉獎金那變成空有制度沒辦法去實施那我也希望說今天次長在這邊副署長在這邊我們大家一起加油讓辛苦的員警因為就我了解我常在這邊跟大家報告基層的警員有時候看到這個很多車手他們都會身上都會藏著一些這個危險物品其實在執勤上是非常的困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2865.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2887.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
所以本席才一直拜託邀拜託也是請求在基層員警或是內部者在吹哨的時候相關的獎金應該要編列要發放而且那我再請教一下現在你們知道說這今年內政部編列的檢舉獎金是多少錢嗎預算114年編列檢舉獎金預算是多少錢嗎跟委員報告我們今年編列的預算是新台幣1000萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2889.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2913.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
1000萬元而已嗎我看了內部的資料上次我質詢過我們內政部有編了一個1.3億的檢舉獎金那請問一下現在發放的金額是多少剛剛1000萬剛剛委員講的那個預算數那是各類型案那針對這個詐欺部分的詐欺的部分我們編列是1000萬聽起來真的是非常的少 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2914.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2942.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那現在發了多少錢就算以詐欺的部分編列一千萬發了多少錢官員報告好手上並沒有這個資料會後可以提供給委員那目前都有陸續發出好所以今天拜託那個副署長跟次長就是看到這樣的問題基層員警大家在執勤的過程中非常辛苦可是如果你沒有獎金的話誰哪個員警願意去跟監去追蹤然後後續把這些詐騙犯或是詐騙集團給追出來這非常的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2943.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2954.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那所以說如果要要給他們在執行上有一些幫助的話所以我就認為他們那麼辛苦也要發相對應的獎金好謝謝謝謝委員我們會照顧繼承同仁好謝謝好謝謝張志龍委員那接下來我們請蘇喬惠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2971.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2997.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請吳次長還有林副署長請副署長 林副署長委員好市長好市長 最近的最重大的新聞之一應該就是這個太子集團詐騙案那上次部長承諾就是一定要嚴辦 速辦那請問一下現在進度到哪裡好 是 那個簡單啦好 還是我請警政署說明一下目前的一個偵辦情形簡單 簡單 簡單就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3004.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3020.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
是謝謝委員那目前這個案子我們是那個刑事警察局跟法務部調查局都在台北地檢的指揮那已經有第一波的查緝行動那這個案子目前還在偵辦當中我想後續認為還會再繼續擴大嗎會會那涉外的人士比較多還是國內的人士比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3024.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3027.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
抱怨因為這個案子現在還在偵查中所以不便公開 是好 那其實就我們目前從新聞上面可以掌握到謝謝從我們新聞上面可以掌握到的資訊其實是涉外的人士也有不少啦這跟其實現在國際局勢國際的趨勢詐騙犯 詐騙案 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3043.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3046.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
都有相當多的跨國這樣的概念其實是一樣的我們可以看到數據來自己顯示其實在台灣你看看從2022年之後我們在台的外籍人士涉及詐欺案件的案件數和人數都是快速的上升那請問一下次長或副署長你對這樣的現象有什麼解釋嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3067.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3082.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
有沒有要加強氣場跟委員報告因為現在可以講國界的這個概念在這個科技發展的狀況模糊化了已經都模糊化了那科技的通訊科技網路之間的發展所以跨境的犯罪會越來越高 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3083.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3089.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以幾乎這就是我們的新型態了所以我今天最主要的就是要來請問你說那在這樣的狀況下我們針對這樣國界模糊跨國犯罪已經是常態那甚至是外籍人士在我國境內變成有這樣的犯罪行為的時候你要怎麼處置處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3104.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3132.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
各位我們報告我們警政署目前是透過我們刑事局的駐外聯絡官是那跟我們犯罪頻率比較高的鄰近國家呢大家都會組成共同打擊犯罪的這樣的一個共識但是這是非正式的組織嘛對不對非正式的管道嘛目前當然是非正式的組織但是我們目前就是說透過這樣的一個機制協同其他國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3132.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3135.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
共同來打擊我今天在這裡藉由這個質詢的過程當中既是提出問題其實也是幫警政署幫內政部警政署的同仁這個辛苦的付出講幾句話就是現在的犯罪類型確實是和以往不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3149.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3161.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
那甚至是更複雜這樣的狀況所以需要有更多的支援那我們來看看嘛首先我剛剛問你的是說你對現在這樣有涉外人士這麼多的犯罪情勢人事物有沒有分析就是你剛剛說比較多發生的地區哪一些地區的人或者是哪一些地區會有比較多的關聯性你們都有掌握了嗎你剛剛的回答是都有掌握嘛對不對我們對於發生的各類犯罪類型一定會進行相關資料的一個蒐集 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3179.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3198.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
收集一定有嘛而且目前也透過友好管道去回推再加強資料嘛對不對那我們甚至可以看到現在的這個外籍人士外籍犯罪人士可能有幫派化或者開始深耕的狀況甚至是外籍人士來台灣他從事的犯罪詐欺行為不是只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3198.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3223.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
坦白講就是騙 不是只有騙台灣人甚至是移工我們外籍人家是好好的來這裡台灣要工作的結果也反而遭到了詐騙這樣的狀態所以我想提幾個意見第一個的話是跨部會的合作比如說我們在看到勞動部在對這個移工進來的時候他有移工一戰式的服務關懷這種部分那他其實有對了很多他其實有就 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3228.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3247.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
防治毒品人口孕犯性侵害酒駕等等都有但是同樣的我們對於詐騙的這個部分其實我們去看所有的資料對詐騙你怎麼樣避免自己被詐騙我說的是移工被詐騙甚至是被同鄉詐騙這件事情目前是沒有提到的所以我第一我建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3248.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3262.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
內政部這邊可以跟勞動部這邊是再一次的合作檢視是不是有相關的資料可以去做通報這是第一個部分第二個部分的話就是其實我們也有學生的部分學生來台灣念書念一念以後卻在就有一些狀況之下他不小心 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3266.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3272.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
碰觸到了這樣的犯罪的組織等等也變成了相關的犯罪人士所以教育部也會有應該有相對應的狀況所以我第一個訴求應該是說我認為啦就跨國詐騙的這個部分內政部應該要主動就如同洗錢一樣跟其他部會合作聯繫次長這個部分應該沒有問題吧應該這樣做吧對包括移工啦包括那個外籍人士進來台灣那我想包括勞動部的移工還有教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3296.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3302.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
尤其是學生甚至是入出境管理這本來是你們內政部的這些都應該要加強我們移民署這邊也有來處理這個部分這是第一個第二個部分的話就是我剛剛說要替大家說點話這樣的狀況其實我們這麼認真台灣的打擊犯罪的績效不差但是很可惜的因為我們沒有辦法加入國際刑警組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3316.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3330.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以我們沒有辦法在第一時間及時的跟全世界的其他相關國家有這種一件事的或者是及時的一案式的通報所有共享所有的情資沒有錯吧副署長這個部分你們認為有沒有加入國際刑警組織有沒有好處或壞處或遺憾或者是你們的想法是如何因為我知道你們署長剛剛去這個國際警察首長協會的年會也是談到了這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3346.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3347.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
當然跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3349.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3378.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
台灣的警察加入這個國際刑警組織這是警政署多年來一直推動的一個目標雖然過程有一些不順遂但是到目前為止仍然是警政署的重點工作24號這個月就是馬上要到了嘛11月24號到27號要在摩洛哥又要再開年會了嘛那我們有沒有希望能夠怎麼爭取加入你們的策略是什麼大概目前我們都透過由我的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3379.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3393.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
協助發聲來幫我們爭取加入國際刑警組織這個部分其實到目前為止跟委員報告警政署非常重視這個工作一定會再持續努力推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3394.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3397.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
這個副署長還有次長這邊我是覺得非常遺憾因為這個是礙於國際的局勢所以我們一直想要加入國際刑警組織卻還沒有成功這樣的狀況我們可以看到其實你看看國際刑警組織有19個資料庫包括各類型的犯罪台灣都無法使用也沒有辦法及時接獲最高級別的棄捕通報這個紅色通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3419.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3426.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
所以等到我們知悉有通緝犯在台灣隱匿的時候常常已經時效過啦所以之前還發生過什麼西班牙的通緝犯 詐欺通緝犯結果在台灣已經待了五年了還開業了這樣的狀況這都非常非常的可惜所以其實我們應該就如同我們要爭取加入WHA WHO一樣是舉國之力來支援警政署支援我們台灣的警察可以加入國際刑警組織 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3446.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3451.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
所以接下來就是預算的會期大家要進行預算的這個狀況了我記得去年我們大家在這個旅費等等的這種部分會議的這些部分預算其實各位委員之間有不少的討論我是認為其實內政部也好警政署也好可以就像現在這樣子的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3465.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3477.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我們不但應該要加入國際組織而且應該要大大的加入甚至不只在年會的時候才去做遊說工作平時也就可以去了這些也都是需要國家的經費來支援所以我認為你們可以在爭取預算的時間把這些過去的努力及辛苦和需求大大的藉由預算會期告訴國人爭取更多的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3491.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3509.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
也為我們辛苦的警察同仁可以多一點配備這是我的期許所以市長你要不要回應一下我想謝謝委員的指教我想對於警政署這個參加國際組織還有包括照顧基層同仁在預算上我想今年的預算我們這部分也都請警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3510.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3528.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
把包括防炸還有像這些的一些的預算經費我們都有請他再努力再做增加到時候也請委員們來支持我剛剛講的是不只是打炸的費用是甚至是加入國際組織的這種部分其實應該要做的事情我們也會支持謝謝謝謝蘇喬惠委員接下來我們請王美惠召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3541.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3558.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
主席我們請常事我們請副署長常事和副署長早上常事在今天我們說政府要發大家都可以拿一萬塊在這個過程當中差不多在八月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3564.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3570.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我們就開始很煩惱我們的百姓會被詐騙是一團糞便所以在我們中央政府的幾個當中就是說日本上市有的年薪多或是中低收入戶或是退休金或是國民年金都共差不多中間11類類 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3593.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3595.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
都主動會讓我們放在他們的肚子裡面現在問題最重要的就是他如果沒辦法登記他也沒辦法出門去念但是現在我們政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3611.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3613.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
也說 跟你們走會去方便也好 跟不方便也好我們是不是有規定在1月2日 拿你的健保卡跟身分證去郵局而已來 郵局的副總 來拜託一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3640.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3646.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
副總 教長 在這個過程當中 你知道當時要去你育嬌寧嗎?在位日時啦在位日時啦 跟你們說有什麼作為 有什麼安排嗎?有啦齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3658.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3665.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
整台都安排好了 而且都安排好了完全都已經訓練過了完全訓練過了 安排好了行環都有跟他訓練過 因為上面一百十二年也有一個經驗對 做得不錯 還可以改進空間所以我們在十一月二十開始念的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3684.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3688.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
可以更好我們在這裡本身要跟你說的就是我們很怕有的事大人有的要去捏好會外面有一些不管什麼的會在那裡給你送給我送給你煮了來我幫你用就好了所以在外面我們有 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3709.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3712.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
警政署署長,你們這個要去配合,當地的派出所要去配合因為你不可以為了那一萬塊出來,我們去用平的那麼多錢,還要清清楚楚嘛我們都要用這個問題,來,副署長你要 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3729.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3733.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
謝謝 感謝委員對這個議題的關心本來遊郷就是我們警察存留的重點目標我知道啦在這個一萬塊的發展的過程當中 經濟事務已經通過國管局在這個發放期間 一定要派人去跟遊郷來協助防止各類犯罪情勢的發生這就是你說的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3754.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3756.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
我知道你們都會去申請求求求嘛因為我們財委就是開始要求求求尤其你若檢報到新聞上去你就要求求嘛所以我們這裡就是說我們也能夠到協助啦不可以這樣出來剛才本席說的說還要奉陪一條還要請參當然當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3779.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3782.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
副總編本席要跟你說的就是說在裡面我們也有志工我們的同事說這段時間我們大家要辛苦一下因為會去郵局而已第一點他就是沒辦法登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3796.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3800.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
還會去我們郵局唸 還是去交會那種的所以我們要多協助他們出來的時候 健康這邊要到三天這樣 還是可以 最方便都好啦不像鄉鄉說我一個四天四天四天 大家都要來唸 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3819.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3822.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
來賓客客客 跟阿伯跟萬家牛仔跟娘子的人乾貨跟你們要給娘子的人乾貨這樣就不知道中央的用心良好說 啊 大家看一萬塊在那去新羅名就不好了來 副總請拜託回去跟蠟燭師傅說一聲辛苦大家多協助一下 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3848.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3852.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
在這裏 副署長 本席要跟你談到的就是說我們都深深刻刻都說 詐騙集團不管是什麼事情都會去牽連到詐騙集團現在政府的名義要拿一萬塊 詐騙集團來騙所以本席在這裏看的時候 你們說要打詐 打詐啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3876.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3881.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
在一百一十一年到一百十二年 你如果看這個數字喔 副市長你這樣看你會怕到嗎 沒感覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3893.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3896.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
但是我知道我們現在的署長是譬如一件案件以前都寫一件而已只要一件案件裡面有誤會受害者他就寫誤會就變成這個案件變一件就變誤會了 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3915.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3919.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
但是我要跟你說,雖然我們這是開水,也是輸血但是本身要跟你說的是,我們毋忘詐騙集團不管你是要發放什麼,或是秘書時的生活詐騙集團一定應用到我們大家的生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3936.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3941.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
變成沒錢了 聽電話 走到集團卡所以親戚朋友也沒辦法聯絡 還要報警察 也沒辦法報案現在的環境跟認證到你 我都說沒有 感染也沒有你想要怎樣如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3961.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3966.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
跟委員報告,這個現象我們都有了解有了解,我們有辦法做有辦法做,今年我跟委員報告所有詐騙發生的架構跟金額我們今年架構已經下降差不多五成,一半,快要到半了 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3985.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3990.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我們怕三成財富損失下降要五成這是今年同期到今年同期來比那相關的已經都明顯在下降中那委員剛才講的這部分就是說詐騙集團影響我們人民之間民眾一時間的活性這部分我們如果透過相關的宣導還有其他相關的補回大家全力希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4011.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4014.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
可以透過打擊詐騙跟相關的宣導來重塑我們整個社會整個復興的...這樣來 副市長你剛才說的我們今年跟店長 店很多人但是事實上 手裡又沒有人拜託廢後的信 你的資料上來...沒問題 沒問題主席 拜託一分鐘給我在這裡 我請移民署副市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4040.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4044.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
副署長因為時間的關係本身跟你談好 跟你有問題可以簡單回答回答我沒有回覆的時候 再處理給我現在就是移工 移工時間到 他會回去這是千金萬銷的 他回去他的銀行卡放給別人用 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4064.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4065.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
不讓人去念 跟你們說的說 他是正規政治的人喔他是時間要回到家 要回到他的故鄉啊 沒在台灣啊他就收到朋友說 你的卡就一樣裡面沒錢啊 這樣給我用就好了 不用再去辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4086.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4088.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
如果另外一個朋友是社區 片開用的時候他們會當當兇的啦 一個無辱的啦在那裡在那裡用 所以我們移民署 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4101.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4103.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
不管是違法的 還是時間夠要回去應該都要通報銀行 不能發生事情跟他的銀行說什麼出出入入 有異常的時候跟要來借錢的時候 不會有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4121.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4125.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我們北施台灣人 中華民國的北施是不便宜的 要再來一次就沒有了要不然我先通報這個人已經入境了 這個金融卡不能再用了所以這個問題 拜託開口給我回答一下委員 是不是讓我們副署長稍微簡單講一下 好吧 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4149.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4162.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
來 委員好 跟委員報告因為我們這部分行政很重要所以整幾年一直開花我們在九年的時候高檢署打造事法的時候我們就配合所以我們這個主流將對非本國企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4162.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4168.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我們就有借錢給通常會那幾十萬幣他如果在借的時候他們都會知道金管會那邊也有借錢都完成但是我要說的要借錢他又沒有在我們中華民國台灣他的金融卡他的金融簿我又要借錢一定會拿他的金融卡給他們的工鄉在那裡使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4189.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4189.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
因為這部分他沒有在過來所以相關的機關他就去處理這段 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4196.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4198.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
剛才我講的就是相關的處理是發生有異常的事跟處理啦這你要去了解一下啦這是有異常所以說我問副署長我們嘗試加要注意因為說實在詐騙集團當然還會用啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4223.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4234.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
謝謝 謝謝委員接著會後我們再給你一個更詳細的資料謝謝王美惠 張偉張偉剛才提到的那些也請會後把資料提供給張偉接下來我們請黃婕委員發言好 謝主席我們先請內政部次長請次長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4249.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4267.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
好 次長好在今天這個主題之前我先請教一下因為其實前兩天有一個這個宇宙彌勒黃教的事情我不知道次長有沒有關注到那當然裡面的爭議非常多那我看到這兩個主要的爭議是一個有教徒說因為他追隨這個教長 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4269.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4287.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
教主長達15年那但是他逼迫這個信徒要不斷買非常昂貴的法器那他現在想要離開但是沒有辦法取回被放在這個寺廟中的自己的祖先的牌位那這個是目前看到的一個事件那當然另外比較爭議比較大的就是說他們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4290.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4313.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
教主的這個群組裡面有一個詛咒的群組就是詛咒很多藍綠的政治人物各黨派的都有那在裡面說要用意念來攻擊這一些藍綠的政治人物那其實當時內政部看到這個訊息也有說會進行調查所以我想要請教的是目前有沒有任何調查的進度那當然我覺得宗教自由是一定要尊重的 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4313.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4327.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
這個大家都有信仰各式宗教的自由但是如果裡面有涉及一些詐欺或者是不法的部分這個內政部就應該要進入來調查並且協助這一些已經明顯有受害的教徒 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4328.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4343.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
好 謝謝委員 我想先簡單說明第一個它這個宗教團體我們在第一時間已經請我們宗理師都去現場去了解那有關剛談到群組的部分那我這邊所理解的是它確實在那個群組裡面有一些行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4345.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4359.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那我想這個行為的部分如果他只要涉及不法涉及詐欺我們這邊都會有第一個已經去訪查了那接下來我們都會做搜查那這個不光只是總理師我們包括警政署其實都已經在這個案子都已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4360.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4379.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
已經有把他相關的一些具體事證都來做整理那一旦查完之後我們就會移送給相關的檢調機關來做一個偵辦我先簡單跟委員做個說明好 謝謝次長的說明我就希望說這個案件不要再有一些教徒有受害的情勢發生好 那進入今天的重點我們先請金管會的銀行局副局長是不是在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4381.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4391.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
好那今天要討論這個普發一萬的防詐狀況那我想要藉此來說來瞭解一個案件就是前幾天的這個全支付的案件因為其實這種詐騙的樣態都差不多啦網路的詐騙他通常就是給你一些假的網址給你一些假的連結讓你點進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4400.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4420.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那很常是冒用我們政府網站的一些連結然後騙你點進去之後就把你的個資拿走了那我想要問的是前兩天的這個全支付的狀況因為全支付大家知道說其實是全台灣用戶量第三名然後他們的交易量也是全台灣第一名的電子支付的平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4420.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4443.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
但是在這個全支付的狀況前兩天有發生一個案件就是說有民眾連續被倒刷20筆交易那總金額損失是台幣8萬元然後很多用戶都很恐慌也紛紛表示說他們有類似的情勢發生那金管會是說17號之前要他們交報告我不知道現在調查的結果如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4446.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4467.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
麥克風跟委員報告全支付在這個事件發生的時候有馬上跟我們通報重大偶發那這個報告他是17號才要過來那所以目前目前我們還沒有收到這個報告那這一個網站他是用這個釣魚信件還有這個其他的簡訊來誤導民眾去這個到其他的網站把這個資料輸進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4473.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4494.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那所以不是全支付本身它的網站或者是它的APP有被攻擊的這個現象所造成的好 謝謝我們金管會的說明喔那我在這邊要講的是這個看起來比較像是就是一種狀況攻擊嘛那我們是不是先請速發布的王司長是不是在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4495.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4497.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
我在這邊想要跟你了解的是像這種賬戶供給的行為樣態已經非常多我想問的是像這種資安你們有沒有一定的防護程度以及比較大的資安的問題到底要怎麼解決我在這邊跟你問兩個事情一個是就是其實有很多資安專家建議說現在這種用信用卡跟綁銀行賬戶比起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4516.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4523.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
綁信用卡是相對安全的因為可以比較有追溯的管道並且他的追討帳戶追討款項的機制比較明確那這個是不是你們會建議說大家與其綁你的銀行帳戶不如綁信用卡這是第一個問題第二個問題是OTP就是One Time Password |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4537.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4551.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這樣的方式已經被很多資安專家說已經很不安全了可是現在台灣多數的銀行多數的網站多數的電子支付都還是用ATP的方式在用例如簡訊驗證給你一個驗證碼然後你就輸入但是像我剛剛說的狀況攻擊很常就是利用這樣的漏洞讓你中間先你有大量的帳密然後你再用想辦法去去釣魚 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4562.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4567.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
那變成說OTP非常的不安全那你也知道說現在網路全世界都在就是更新用passkey的方式然後用加入這個FIDO的組織所以我想要問的是速發部有沒有建議說我們可以有更多的銀行更多的電子支付的網站可以加入FIDO的這個系統讓大家使用passkey的方式來取代OTP以上兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4589.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4605.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
好謝謝委員提問那針對第一個是不是信用卡或是說綁帳戶這個部分的話可能我這邊沒辦法回答沒辦法回答金融這邊的話可能比較可是這個是資安問題啊金管會那邊可能比較清楚那針對簡訊的部分的話第一個這個是數位資安問題好沒關係那是不是請金管會回答請告訴我們綁信用卡跟綁銀行的帳戶哪一個比較安全你們可以做到哪樣的防護 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4620.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4649.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
跟委員報告其實我們在意的是業者的責任不管是綁信用卡還是綁帳戶那如果是非這個我現在就是在跟你討論技術上如何讓民眾可以自主的去預防嘛什麼叫做這個你們在乎的是業者的責任不管怎麼樣業者都有責任啊問題是說我們要如何輔導民眾然後輔導銀行讓大家用最安全的方式來防護自己的帳號不要被盜嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4654.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4667.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
阿現在很多資安專家就已經講說技術上其實信用卡比較有他們有一些認證並且有追溯的管道並且像這些MasterCard他們在世界上都已經加入FIDO組織啦我覺得你們完全沒有做功課也沒有任何的針對這種資安防護的研究耶所以你知道什麼是FIDO嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4678.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4707.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我知道我知道對嘛所以那現在是不是大家都已經在講說OTP已經沒有很已經不安全了那是不是大家來可以嘗試使用passkey你們有什麼建議是跟我一樣報告如果是那個就是用那個FIDO的部分那現在其實台灣已經有solution就是說在至少在內政部這邊他自然評證他是有FIDO的機制的那這個部分的話其實在銀行這邊如果他用這樣子的機制的話在內政部這邊應該也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4708.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4720.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
不好意思 應該是市長這邊我想跟委員報告我想我們自然能評證就是用FIDO的我們也一直在推廣說包括銀行業者來協助是不是來盡量可以多運用像我們自然能評證的模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4720.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4738.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那我想這個部分也包括金管會還有速發部我想我們都可以來共同研究那我想是不是在會後我們有研究好 這個麻煩次長因為看起來我們金管會看起來速發部都沒有進一步的研究也沒有任何進一步的建議其實我蠻失望的那這個拜託我們內政部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4743.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4768.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好 這個我們幾個部會來共同來研究 好不好好 這個要更快呀因為現在 拜託 這個詐騙集團的詐數是與時俱進 每天日新月異的結果我們防範的手段這麼慢然後又跟不上世界的腳步那到底要怎麼防詐這個我們是不是就揮霍我們幾個部會我們會來共同來做研究好 這個拜託你們我想資安很重要啦很重要啊 現在就是大家就是在打資安戰嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4769.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4779.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
好這個拜託次長內政部一定要加油好嗎謝謝黃婕委員接下來我們請張宏祿委員發言我請內政部然後還有財政部跟金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4802.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4818.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
請以上委員好我先請問財政部像這次普發一萬塊我們也知道有好幾種方法可以去領這個一萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4821.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4831.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
可是我一直覺得有很多在比較鄉村的其實他們常常去往來的都是農會對不對你都不回答我那有沒有考慮下一次如果有這種的或是把農會考慮進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4850.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4871.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
是 報告委員因為這次普發的就陳如委員所提的這個管道很多那就是說不然你就回答我要不要時間有限不要做文章如果說是像登記入帳的部分這些金融機構其實都有在裡面我的意思就很多委員也有講你可以去郵局直接理做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4871.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4897.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
有沒有把農會考慮進去一句話就好了你跟我做那麼多文章所以現在領先的部分的話是可以到郵局農會的部分可能要就是去看說你如果沒有辦法決定你也可以跟我講帶回去研究就好啦你這邊講這麼多你浪費我那麼多時間我們下次如果有機會我們再研議看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4899.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4923.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
對嘛你這樣子其實是浪費我的時間啊你這樣子講那麼多對不對為什麼這樣很多的鄉下的人他其實都在農會啦你就直接去農會領我覺得這是一個很方便的一件事情我覺得你們要去考慮那再來我想請問一下像 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4928.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4939.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
如果一夜市網路的詐騙如果人家去報案了那他用信用卡付錢可不可以停止付款這財政部跟金管會你們兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4946.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4966.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
跟委員報告如果是用信用卡不是當事人消費的他可以跟發卡銀行申請這個不是啊當然是當事人消費啊他已經拿到銀行的報案三連單了他發現這個就是網路詐騙的已經拿到了銀行的報案三連單去到銀行可不可以要求他指付 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4969.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4987.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
跟委員講信用卡沒有指付只有爭議賬款的處理對啦 可不可以處理啦可以處理可以處理但是錢就是如果他已經輸入他的重要的這個ID譬如說OTP這我都知道這都知道啦他就已經完成程序了啦對好 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4988.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5002.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
我知道你們要講沒有辦法嘛對不對因為你們說爭議款啦這是國際信用卡的組織的認定的交易啦對不對你們是這樣講嘛那再來我們的詐欺犯罪妨害維治條例第八條可能你們也不知道我直接念給你們聽金融機構對於存款帳戶電子支付帳戶及信用卡等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5016.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5038.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
應盡善良管理人之注意義務對疑似涉及詐欺犯罪之異常存款帳戶等等等等他必須暫停全部或部分交易功能管控信用卡及暫停信用卡帳戶交易功能拒絕建立業務關係或提供服務等管控措施這是台灣的法令 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5039.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5062.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那你們要遵守國際法律還是為了打詐要優先遵守台灣的法律請你們回答各位報告我們一定是先遵守我們自己國家的法律那我剛唸給你聽的詐欺犯罪妨礙危害防治法第八條就要求你們管控帳戶了那你剛剛給我的回答是尊重這個國際信用卡組織用爭議款去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5067.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5096.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
來 次長你們的警察都已經八萬確定了喔他們銀行不處理喔那個請教一下我們檢證署是不是說明一下實務上這種有信用卡之後不是啊你們就回答我啦你們有這樣子啦啊他們不處理啊我就有實際的案例啦那你們怎麼看法你們一天到晚在講打詐啊啊你們跨部會協調他們都第一個我們那個打詐辦公室裡面大概都會把這些議題拿來做一個看如何去精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5097.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5104.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那這個部分打在辦公室也會包括我們警政署刑事警察局那我想還有包括警管會那是不是請我們同事說明一下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5107.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5131.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
謝謝委員的指教有關相關跨部會的協調在行政會的打炸指揮中心我們都會把跨部會我們在偵查犯罪上所發現的問題沒辦法協調的我們會透過打炸指揮中心來做定期的協調我現在舉這個很多民眾反映你們多久要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5134.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5151.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們下一次會議就把這個議題提到打炸指揮中心來做責任的報告所以你們還沒有發現過這個問題下次才要提這個問題我都接到好幾次的反應了你們都沒有你們都沒有發現過這個也都沒有跟金管會財政部討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5153.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5179.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
官員報告這個其實這一類的案件我們早就有提供相關的建議那因為剛剛金管會他們有他們的想法跟做法所以我們才必須提在這個西蛙窗方面再金管會剛剛已經講了他優先遵從台灣的法令我再做一次詐欺犯罪危害防治條例第八條台灣的法令規定的他剛剛也講了 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5183.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5211.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
就是優先尊重台灣的法令當然跟委員報告我們把這個問題在我覺得這個問題很多的民眾發生了這個問題政府一天到晚在講打詐我們有台灣的法令沒有優先執行然後去說國際的信用卡組織的爭議狂我覺得這個是非常可以去研議去處理的我覺得你們這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5213.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5233.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
三個月內你們應該要給我們內政委員會所有委員一份你們處理的怎麼樣這是對全國不是對我啦不然內政部打詐你們警察那邊三連單都開了都已經確定都是了人家都不理你們你們警察在幹什麼我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5236.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5253.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
也要找回警察的尊嚴也要讓台灣的民眾知道政府有在做事台灣的法令不遵循這樣子講句難聽一點的你們不是保護民眾你們是站在銀行端你們站在資本家那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5254.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5270.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
金管會跟財政部是不是這樣各位報告我們就是因為發生這個問題所以把這個問題提到跨部會上這個程序問題你不用教我啦我也很清楚啦我最後問一下那個財政部跟金管會你們剛剛也有說優先遵循台灣的法令對不對是嘛所以你們趕快處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5283.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5305.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這個問題如果不處理動會越來越大大家都知道台灣有這個漏洞反正就不用怕我就一夜市的廣告我就能騙多久就趕快繼續騙你們可不可以馬上處理三個月內跟內政部這些處理我們會盡快跟內政部來討論好 謝謝謝謝張宏祿委員接下來我們請麥玉珍委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5319.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5328.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
是主席有請警政署還有移民署警政署移民署兩位副署長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5337.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5362.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
想要請教兩位這幾年我們看到的就是外籍移工常常因為不懂法規被詐騙集團利用變成車手或者人頭賬戶那其實已經成為一種就是犯罪集團的代理化的一個現象就是犯罪者躲在 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5362.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5387.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
幕後利用移工當替代的犯罪所以想要請教一下我們警政署這樣的歧視有沒有列為情資監控的重點這一年偵探的監訴還有上游招募者到案的比例起訴和定罪率有多少有數據嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5390.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5399.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
跟委員報告我們外籍移工包括新住民這一塊其實他目前被詐騙的這個狀況謹慎署件數都有統計那當然他這個數據我今天沒帶來是不是容我會後再提供給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5411.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5439.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那為了避免這些移工或者是新住民或者甚至是持這個觀光簽證來到台灣的這些外籍人士他們被淪為詐騙集團的這些車手所以我們在相關的宣導相關的宣導活動部分大概都有做了相關的宣導那移工的部分我們還結合移工的管理者也就是這個工廠的負責人 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5442.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5447.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
這透過跟勞動部來配合然後透過這個管道再去做宣導的一個加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5448.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5475.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
所以我想這個相關的情資的一個掌握我們是都有掌握的那至於有偵破的案件確實有那因為這些數據比較細部是不是容我會後再提供給委員做參考以上你講的這些我們都知道我們要的是具體說有效的因為你講的再來就是針對我們的賬戶的部分如果就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5476.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5479.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
我要問你的是移工他們離境或者通報失聯他們的名下的銀行帳戶是不是可以在合法的程序下可以立即列入就是警示或者停留的交易就像說很多就是在台中我們都看到免費的信卡還有一個攤位讓給他們還有離境的帳戶的收購 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5503.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5508.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
然後非法的這個匯款的點這樣子的管道這一年來你們有整合稽查結果是如何是不是已經跟銀行建立好就是離境帳戶的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5520.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5550.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
疫警機制或者高風險的交易及時通報我們要的是你們的工作的有效的工作的點你講那些什麼什麼人什麼人我們比你清楚但是不用再講那個好不好報告委員這個部分比較細節一點我是不是請刑事局來做個答案可以謝謝委員的指教那就是有關外籍移工的部分就涉及到兩個一個就是電話 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5551.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5567.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
一個就是帳戶那就是人離境了之後他的原來的手機還有他的帳戶都還在使用這個我們已經有跟打炸指揮中心反映這個問題那現在都還在跨部會的協調當中那我們同時也跟移民署 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5568.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5581.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
做一個借接因為這些人可能提領之後他馬上就離境所以我們會盡快的找出辦法就是在他還沒離境之前就能夠把這些外籍的車手能夠逮捕 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5582.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5590.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
你們都請大家都跨部會合作但是你們跨的部會不知道跨到哪裡去因為離境的帳戶還是被詐騙繼續用所以還有感覺就是說我們政府沒有跨部會的去處理才會造成就是現在的就跟自己政府在養這些人頭帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5606.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5610.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
這樣子是合理的嗎另外就是說我們是要跨部會今天有各部會都來所以目前我們警政署說只是跟移民署跟其他我們金管會銀行電信業者就是可疑的賬戶異常有沒有真正做到就是及時的 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5629.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5633.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
凍結處理有沒有說平均多少還有現在AI就是防炸的模型有沒有針對外籍的就是外語的社團有跨境金流的特徵去調查我們要的是你們真正的執行的效率還有方法不只說我們在用我們在用沒有一個具體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5655.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5667.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
是那這部分我們會後再把我們警政署在有關打擊就是在偵辦這個外籍移工還有外籍車手的相關的數據跟做法來在會後再提供給委員來做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5670.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5675.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
還有像在臉書啊LINE啊還有就是抖音上面有很多就是外語的宣傳廣告這些的你們有去查嗎有沒有說就是熱區的名單就像說移工的注射或者中間公司傳遞的市場周邊有沒有固定的聯合的稽查這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5697.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5707.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
因為不只是我們提出來還有很多你看這些雖然是說你們看不懂但是都是因為大家都利用這樣子來去做這件事情普遍你們怎麼去查有沒有這部分第一個就是宣導當然跟這些外籍的仲介公司我在申辦的時候我們也會來加強來宣導那稽查的部分會結合移民署都有在各個縣市警察局都有在稽查 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5729.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5732.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
但是效果你們稽查的點還有這個樣子的效果在哪裡因為我們看到的就是像我們移民署這邊就是也面對詐騙集團就是假冒我們的官方散布一些假消息移民署有沒有在一時之間把所有的是多國語言 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5753.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5757.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
來去做就是宣傳讓這些就是說在台灣的外籍人士他們怎麼樣去得到這樣的信息因為大家都講說都是外籍人變成車手變成詐騙集團的一個犯罪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5775.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5788.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
的對象或者是變成他們的犯罪的手法但是我們我們移民署跟警政署有沒有跨部會這樣子把多國的議員來去做宣傳讓大家更知道呢有嗎跟委員報告有關這部分我們跟警政署包含防詐騙這邊都有密切合作他其實是有一個線上的 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5801.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5826.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
線上他會有個三方通話多餘的一個諮詢服務在針對防詐的部分那另外我們在那個所謂的外國人在台人士的生活諮詢熱線這部分也都有提供相關多餘的這些服務另外在對於說這些移工一站式的服務的部分的話我們也都跟勞動部這邊有來結合針對他在入境的部分也會加強在這上面防詐的宣導還有其他的管道謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5827.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5848.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
好我們是希望的是抓到源頭就是外籍籍工外籍人士在台灣被利用我們要如何就是要不是人的問題是制度跟機制的問題所以我們希望就是說這件事情就是說我們在入國的時候我們要如何來去做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5856.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5856.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
宣傳還有輔導這個部分因為我們都是用中文的他們聽不懂又看不懂所以我們希望是針對各種語言很多就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5870.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5877.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
回去了就把帳戶把自己的SIM卡就會變成這樣子的去販賣所以這樣子的普遍所以才會導致現在就是很多就是利用這樣子來去做一個詐騙集團我很多次了我很多次都有要求還有就是拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5891.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5897.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我們警政署跟移民署要如何跨部會要用一個防詐的一個外籍人士的團隊因為現在詐騙集團都去利用外籍人士 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5907.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5935.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
來去詐騙我們在台灣的人但是呢我們警政署跟移民署不懂得去應用現有這些人移民署每年都是栽培人警政署也是一個每年都栽培新住民有各種語言但是呢我們都沒有應用來去真正的去防詐所以最後我要提醒光是十月份因為很多都在說是 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5937.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5948.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
移工最多就是污名化但是關於10月份一個月我們本國籍涉炸的人數已經超過3000人也超過移工的人數但是新聞裡面都標題都說常常下標題就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5957.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5960.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
逃逸移工在犯罪在詐欺所以我請兩位就是兩個單位在政府的統計宣傳上有沒有避免這樣的就是族群的污名化能不能就是同步推動不要這樣子的標籤化的防詐的交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5978.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5981.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
請大家知道說這個是不是族群的問題這個是制度的問題所以我們希望保護的所有在台灣生活工作努力的人不分國籍也不分你我我們都大家都是被利用所以希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5997.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6004.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
兩位就是我們兩個署還有其他可以共同跨部會跟今天的主題一樣跨部會如何就是有一個具體的計畫防詐還有怎麼消除讓外籍人士在台灣成為詐騙的車手可以嗎在一個月內提出一個具體的OK |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6024.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6035.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
可以好謝謝謝謝謝謝好謝謝麥玉珍委員確實有一些議題確實需要跨部會來共同來討論那接下來我們請徐玉珍委員發言謝謝主席我們請內政部吳次長跟警政署李副署長請吳次長還有李副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6054.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6075.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
市長好以及我們的副市長好我想這一次我們普發現金一萬塊我們的原意是要還稅於民也讓全民共享經濟的一個成果但是呢這份善意現在卻變成這個詐騙集團的這個新手法所以政府一再的高喊要全民市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6076.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6085.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那內政部的報告我剛看了一下也是有自誇我們在宣導影片跟曝光的這個圖卡大概高達4597萬次請問一下這是觸及人數還是一直不斷的重複曝光 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6093.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6122.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
這是我們重複播放的一個次數就是重複播放所以這個4597次真正看到的有多少人看到的有多少次其實我們也沒有也沒有做一個這樣的一個數據嗎因為現在這樣的一個播放的方式我們並沒有去統計所謂點閱或觸及的所以變成說你們也不會針對長者或是偏鄉的一個民眾的一些高風險群去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6123.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6147.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個後撤或者一些滿意圖的調查是嗎跟我們報告我們的宣導呢本來就採分眾分齡的方式在做宣導那請問有量化嗎量化就這個宣導量化的部分這個資料是比較細微的我們可能要再統計一下但是我們是觀測整個族群對所以表示目前你們有量化嗎你不曉得說到底我們這樣子的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6148.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6175.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
廣告試詐的廣告下去之後到底有什麼樣的成效我們現在看到都是一些數字那我們做了什麼我們做了什麼做了什麼但是實際上的成效是什麼目前警政署這邊是沒有任何的報告嗎根本報告我們就是看整個詐欺犯罪他大幅的他有沒有下降那剛剛也有委員問到我們目前在案件的部分是下降了大概三成然後在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6177.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6194.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
財損的部分這個是真的有下降還是說沒有統計到這當然有下降我覺得這個部分我們必須要去了解清楚尤其是像我們剛剛講了這麼多的市詐的一個宣傳作為那目前為止請問一下知道說哪一種市詐的這個作為方式最有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6196.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6224.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
市場的部分剛剛我們有提了各種方式市長在報告的時候跟我們報告其實每一個管道都有它特定的受造目前在看的話電視是一個比較有效的方式因為電視成本高所以你們真正投注在電視的經費大概佔多少百分比大概佔多少目前我們在電視的部分投入的預算大概是1.5億每一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6224.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6226.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
一年1.5億那這一次針對這一次的這個呢那個我們的這個普發現金的房價有沒有特別在因為其實我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6233.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6239.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
我們的這次的這個普發現金的特別條例裡面你們也有編列媒體宣傳的費用我們也都沒有刪對 所以這個部分應該是針對普發現金的部分應該有特別的媒體宣傳的費用才對有 我們這次在電視媒體的部分大概有特別拍了一支影片在電視的部分拍影片網路大概是16支拍影片跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6256.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6269.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
最後我剛講的就是他的KPI是什麼我覺得警政署必須要去量化這樣的一個數據出來你才能夠知道未來我要用什麼樣的宣傳方式才是最有效的否則的話我們只是把錢撒出去做了一些影片做了一些廣告到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6270.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6289.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
有沒有針對被詐騙的人有真的幫助跟感受尤其是像我們知道最近有很多的釣魚簡訊告訴你說你連結到哪個網站所以你可以事實上造成很多的這樣子的人被詐騙那請問一下我們這個署理或是我們內政部有沒有針對簡訊這個部分來投放呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6294.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6308.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
目前我們對於這樣的詐騙簡訊的處理方式如果是這個電話簡訊的部分我們大概都拜託這個NCC在做進一步的處理那NCC有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6310.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6333.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
他今天有代表另外如果是網路的部分因為我們目前看到其實都是釣魚網站的簡訊我們自己政府並沒有這樣的一個簡訊那我要表達就是說如果我們自己有簡訊先通知我們所有的這個民眾大家他看到詐騙的時候他就會有所警惕了因為你已經先看到正確的嘛那看到詐騙你就會有所警惕 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6334.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6338.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那所以這個部分是不是也要考慮一下未來針對這樣的一個簡訊通知我們的全民我覺得這是最快也最有效的一個方式而且可以普及到全民那當然你說分眾分眾那個我不反對那也是可以另外再做但是我覺得簡訊這一塊事實上也可以讓一些尤其一些年紀比較長的或是一些偏鄉的他事實上還是接得到簡訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6356.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6383.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
他還是可以看得到那另外針對這個部分就是我們在165的這個打造儀表板普發現金有一個防詐專區那剛剛次長也特別提到了就是說我們普發現金的成果但是我發覺這是我在10月30號所揭露下來的一個普發現金的成果請次長看一下跟你剛剛報告到10月11月10號的成果一模一樣數字都沒有改 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6384.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6395 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那請問到底是這十來天都沒有發生這樣子的這個被詐騙被這個平台的通報下架平台廣告或者是停權的還是說你們資料沒有更新 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6405.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6426.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這邊向委員報告這個因為這個我們每週都會請各縣市回報我們這個移除下架件數那這邊這樣已經不只一週啊已經大概快兩週了那我們這邊其實最新統計的話是下架56件還是沒有變那社群帳號的部分目前的話我們最新統計就從上禮拜五這邊統計的話是 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6428.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6444.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
60個帳號好那你看看喔你們的報告是自本年9月12號起到11月10號值是這個數字喔這個涉嫌詐欺的帳號是50個對吧所以說表示你們在給我們內政委員會的報告裡就是造假啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6446.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6471.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那為什麼沒有 為什麼沒有更新既然你做這樣的更新不是要讓大家知道成果嗎統計的時間有一個落差我想這個我們再更新就好了不是 你現在11月10號對 我的意思是說由小見大連這個地方你們都做這樣子沒有馬上更新到沒有馬上更新到代表說其他要做詐騙的防治或是試詐一定都還有很多的地方需要改進的 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6473.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6489.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我想這個我來請警政署來要更新就是詐騙其實大家都非常痛恨的而且現在有深受其害那我覺得我們內政部真的一定要用這樣的一個方式來去處理好嗎那最後再一個問題請教金管會的王允忠副局長那次長您可以次長沒關係您可以請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6492.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6508.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
委員是不是容我補充一下剛剛委員特別垂行到我們謹慎署有沒有透過簡訊的方式來進行防詐剛剛業務單位提供來了我們今年大概花了1.2億通的簡訊的防詐那表示我們都沒有詐騙集團厲害為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6509.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6515.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
我們的簡訊防詐的效果好像沒有詐騙極端的效果這個我覺得之後可能要評估一下啦到底問題出在哪我們會再做進階的一個評估時間我問一下這個金管會的副局長就是針對這個太子集團的這個洗錢超過45億這個事情那其實我們一般啦到那個現在只要你去銀行領個錢幾十萬大概就會被銀行 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6536.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6560.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
問這是不是你你自己本人要你有沒有被詐騙大概要程序非常的繁複即使我領我自己戶頭的錢但是為什麼這個太子集團啊他這樣子動輒就是幾十億幾這個幾億的都沒有關係那是銀行在睡覺嗎尤其是這一次是金管會說你們已經通報52次的那為什麼52次來都沒有做精檢跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6563.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6573.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那銀行是在一定的金額的通報50萬以上他就會通報這個調查局那另外如果發現有異常樣態那這樣子沒有異常嗎就是這幾年來有45億的詐騙在台灣洗錢這樣沒有異常你們也通報52次了不是嗎對那52次你們都沒有啟動經檢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6585.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6609.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
中間當然是會有一些精檢啦有嗎 你這邊看起來是沒有做精檢不是針對這個專案不是針對這個專案去做精檢表示說你們都已經通報52次了結果也沒做精檢然後結果現在是美國一通知你們就馬上下去做精檢所以到底現在我們是怎樣是美國說我們才會做那我們自己的國家主權在哪裡那還有我們的這個金管會的職責到底在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6610.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6633.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
是跟委員報告因為他這個集團他的公司很多所以每一個關聯戶都不太一樣所以就比較難去歸戶來做一個檢查比較難所以就不做是嗎我們做的是一般的精檢但是沒有做的是針對這一個案件經過這一次你們覺得你們做的一般精檢有用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6634.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6654.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我們至少可以回頭去檢視一下我們銀行做的有沒有那你知道這樣已經造成多少人被詐騙嗎台灣已經變成一個詐騙集團的洗錢天堂那這樣子我們還說我們回過頭去看看有沒有什麼問題那我覺得金管會作為這樣子的一個主管金管是非常失職的非常沒有擔當 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6655.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6675.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你現在把它推給銀行事實上銀行通報你說合法合規但是呢事實上我們就是被詐騙而且還是被美國發現通知我們的所以這到底是什麼樣的問題而且我覺得這個我們的這個金管會的這個實質的失能已經造成我們台灣這個詐騙集團的橫行洗錢的橫行這個絕對不是這麼簡單說我們之後檢討一下那請問金管會這邊你們有沒有全力要求銀行啟動更嚴格的加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6684.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6695.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
禁止審查的EDD或者是主動限制相關帳戶的交易額度跟委員報告事實上現在一直都這麼做的但是還是被詐騙了45億在台灣那所以到底做的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6702.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6729.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
還不到位還是說我們的法律還不夠嚴謹那個451不是被詐騙是他境外匯進來的錢然後他拿去買的對啊那這些錢是什麼是詐騙而來的錢吧這些錢是怎麼樣的因為是調查局他們在司法檢調機關在調查的總之這一件事情我覺得金管會真的要好好的去檢討到底要怎麼樣來去防範這樣的事情而不是說這種雲淡風輕的都不關你們的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6732.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6741.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
可以嗎是好我們會檢討是不是也針對這個部分你們之後要怎麼做是不是一個月之內給我一個報告好嗎是好謝謝好謝謝徐一貞委員下一位我們請黃建斌召委質詢好謝謝主席主席我們有請內政部吳次長檢證署理副署長事務發布王司長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6765.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6790.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
三位好相信各位都很清楚為什麼本席今天會拍今天的專報我從普發現今正式上路以來有太多的詐騙的訊息跟網站在坊間流傳每天幾乎都有新聞發生都有新聞報導說民眾被詐騙的案例因此非常有必要邀請各部會來到立法院跟全國國人來說明清楚機關的防詐的作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6791.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6814.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那本期在這邊也要特別責成我們警政署還有抒發部由於目前許多詐騙的訊息都是透過假網站的這個詐騙連結因此接獲情資跟通報一定要在最短的時間內封鎖相關的網站以及通知社群網站業者下架詐騙的訊息越短的時間阻斷我們詐騙管道就越能夠減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6819.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6834.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
民眾被詐騙的機率我想接下來我們請內政部長跟警政署副市長留下來本席有接下來要請教兩位有關於基層員警的權益的問題繼續跟各位討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6839.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6862.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
首先我想要請教一下吳次長你還記得我們十月份十月中旬的時候本席在內政委員會在這邊也當面質詢我們這個劉部長跟部長爭取說關於警消移民空勤的這個聖夜圍牢津貼必須要納入值班備勤人員以及加班費的餘數必須要能夠並計確保基層的權益請問我們現在目前的進度到哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6867.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6876.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
那委員我是不是請警政署把處理情形來跟您說明時間暫停跟委員報告目前委員所提的這個建議那我的理解是 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6892.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6918.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
警政署已經通知各直轄市縣市警察局針對這一個建議那麼也就是深夜加班會這個部分大概需要多少經費那正在匯集這個相關的資料那進一步的會議可能近日會近日內會再召開然後做出最後的一個決定我們安黨是我們開始要去試因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6922.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6942.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
因為這個應該這樣講我們人事是必須先了解所有的經費大概需要多少錢然後再跟提報部再轉報院編了這個相關的預算然後才有辦法再進行有關這個原有的深夜加班會以外在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6943.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6971.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
未出派出所的這個部分也在 才會再做補花我覺得這個不穩喔 可麻煩我們 可能董事要趕快因為本市上次質詢完之後非常多這個基層的經銷這邊的回應是非常好他說他們非常贊同這些這個事他說這是池袋的公道因為這裡改善部也要責任相關單位盡快來推動讓這些 因為接下來基層真的要等很久了基層真的要等很久那為什麼 因為接下來本市就問到這一塊就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6973.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6982.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我記得之前也有委員質詢過我們署長我們現在的基層發現一個很大的問題就是說到今年3月底我們全國偵查組的預估缺額達到649人缺額率高達將近14%這個對基層打擊犯罪的人力還有我國的資產的穩定是一個非常嚴重的警訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6999.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7026.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
特別是現在刑事警察也負擔非常重的這個詐騙的案件那當時我們署長也承諾說會提出四大的進進方案嘛並且在三個月內提出提升那個警情人員刑事家籍的研議方案不過從署長當時大眼到盡頭也過半年我們到現在還沒有看到這個警情人員的刑事家籍的方案那媒體報導說很多基層的這些刑事警察都在抱怨 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7027.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7056.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
你除了待遇跟你的工作量不成正比外公文多然後評比多也是造成我們刑事人力荒的這個阻暈如果說沒有辦法有效的解決問題這個會嚴重打擊刑警們的士氣也會造成新進員警不願意投入刑警的這個行列難以這個傳承刑事經驗如果持續惡化下去這對我們國內的治安這很大影響這部分我相信護書地方好護教地方好應該都很清楚這個部分是不是來回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7057.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7084.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
目前我們刑事加擠的研議的進度在哪邊跟委員來報告我們刑事加擠的部分他本來就配備有這個所謂的繁重次重還有單純這個加擠大概是在我的理解好像是在八千七千六千塊這樣的一個差距那委員剛剛所指導的我們其實警政署也發現 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7085.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7095.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們認為這個差距可以再把它加大一點也就是說繁重的是不是把它提高到1萬多塊然後這個比較次重的是不是維持在8000 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7096.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7116.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
比較單純的再維持在另外一個等級目前正朝著這樣的一個方式詢問各縣市警察局的意見然後來做是不是要做這樣的一個挑戰副書長我記得那時候四月份問的到現在都現在都十一月了好像要報檔了我了解 委員但是我們在紀審其實也在想說副書長就給我們答應了為什麼要報你 還沒看你的東西副書長你該請車進鄉是他們的欠缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7124.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7152.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
那個副局長 副局長應該很清楚吧現在刑事警察的短缺 副局長應該很清楚吧這個我是非常清楚啦對 或是因為工作越來越多 勤務越來越多他們會覺得說 我發現那個刑事荒各縣市都非常的嚴重這個要趕快來解決那個刑事警察人員他的勤務是特別如果未來這一塊沒有辦法補上的話那未來對整個 你不管是治安還包括我們要推動業務都會很大的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7153.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7180.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
本身在這裡最好再次共調就是守護我們繼承軍警消人員的權利就是守護這個國家安全的最重要的根基那我們兩行政院不願意依法編列我們軍人加薪的部分然後也不願意依法編列這個警消人員的這個退休金的預算你最起碼對你限職的人員的部分你當時的承諾也應該趕快做到所以這邊是不是在11月 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7182.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7210.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
在以前我們請警政署這邊要承諾11月底以前我們提出過完整的這個刑事加節方案讓我們提升我們這個記者營養的這個士氣也可以提升他們營養的待遇可不可以跟委員報告 委員所講的這個部分我回去會跟要求署的單位來做配合啦我也會跟署長來做一個報告盡量在11月底啦好 感謝副署長相關的進度也會跟委員做報告感謝副署長 謝謝那謝謝各位 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7234.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7259.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
請牛許廷委員發言謝謝主席 內政部財政部還有速發部有請請以上三位單位好 大家早安大家辛苦了這個普發一萬元我剛看書面報告被詐騙的災情還算可控嗎數量沒有很多嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7261.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7290.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
跟委員報告 我剛剛的報告裡面其實目前都還可控還可控 這個請繼續加油那因為大家都 現在大家都很擔心啦因為這個題目在台灣上空也吵了蠻久的那當然就很多詐騙集團刺激而動那麼相對來講政府也做了很多措施特別花了很多時間去宣傳就是官方網站只有一個對不對 這是一個相對單純而且有效的這樣一個方式內政部在11月11號在臉書上說普發現金的官網只有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7291.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7309.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
速發部今天的書面報告也講普發現金的官網只有一個那大家去看說這個所謂的官方網站其實基本上就是gov.tw嘛對不對這是基本上的一個簡單的認證模式嘛好那普發現金跟普發現金有關的官網真的只有10000.gov.tw這一個嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7314.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7337.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
只有這個嗎這個我先簡單講跟委員報告網站越單純越好所以說我們希望讓所有的民眾就知道是只有這個單一網站對啊是這樣子所以到底是不是只有一個官方網站包委員就我們所知就是一個官方網站就你們所知是一個如果說那個什麼從網站裡面它有一個地方可以連結出去的話那個是另外一個網址但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7338.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7365.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
的確都是從我們這個網站出去的現在除了這個10000.gov.tw之外還有一個叫做pro.10000.gov.tw請問這是不是官方網站這也是官方網站對不對因為gov.tw嘛對不對那你們又宣稱說只有一個官方網站然後又有另外一個官方網站到底哪一個才是官方網站報告委員這個是從我們10000的那個網站可以連結出去的另外一個網址但是以民眾來講他只要記得10000.gov.tw這個就可以了 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7368.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7393.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
這個是財政部做的嘛來財政部是報告委員這一個是就是為了這個廣宣就是說在就是10000.gov.tw這個登記平台上路之前我要先告訴大家有10000.gov.tw這件事欸你們差不多得了是不要每一個部會都想要搞一個網站好不好既然是單一網站你就全部整合啦你們接下來有沒有要整合的打算 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7395.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7415.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
因為我善意提醒啦 因為你多一個你這後面等於都有gu.tw嘛我們在防詐的過程中 我們最擔心的就是弄的網站跟你很像啊 對不對然後各式各樣 然後導引就把你導到別的地方去嘛那你政府的開放的那個樣態越多它是不是可以模仿 可以盜用就等於破口就越多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7416.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7443.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那既然你們也都宣稱只有一個官方網站就應該有所整併了你即便要宣傳你也集中在你就一開始就集中在1萬.gov.tw你就宣傳宣傳完時間到了就開放不是也比較集中點閱率也比較高效果也比較好嗎這個性歧視恐怕不是一件好事你們想一下要不要趕快來做一下整理這第一個那藉著這樣子的一個問題啦因為後來我看了一下像以速發部來講啊就是說你們都會針對後綴式.tw網站做 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7445.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7459.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
定期的查核跟這個檢證的機制嘛如果發現他是詐騙集團你就會那個我跟你講跟一萬有關的網站這個雖然不是官方這個也算是官方網站我發現還有一個一萬-gov.tw |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7461.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7485.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
然後這個東西跟普發現金其實沒有關係因為它是叫萬事通它是一個可以連結到政府各個網站的一個導流嗎或者是入口的網站當然它這個網站目前為止沒有被錯殺啦但是我要提醒就是說這很複雜啦然後其實跟人民相關他們比較關心也比較關鍵關切的點是到底哪一個網站才是真正的官方嘛真正的認可嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7486.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7502.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
還有第二個是除了我們透過這個後綴網址gov.tw之外這個怎麼能夠確認嗎這個我給政府做一個政策建議第一個除了我建議你把所有的普發現金就是單一窗口做一個統整避免詐騙集團有破口之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7502.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7529.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
第二個就是我們所有的官方網站除了是用網址的方式來辨認之外有沒有一些別的機制可以讓他有效有認證機制的概念比如說臉書啊我們的這個臉書粉專有藍勾勾嘛那你就認證藍勾勾嘛然後LINE裡面有盾牌綠色盾牌對不對那相對來講網站上面有沒有一些這樣的東西來速發部這需要你們有點創意啊有沒有什麼想法 報告委員第一個就是我們對外宣導就是做10000.gov.tw所以我剛才那個pro其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7531.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7555.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
當然剛剛委員有建議說把整合那個我們會整合但是現在其實民眾也是從那邊從我們的一萬這邊點出去才會到那個地方那至於說像這樣子有點像是這個我們普發一萬的這個網站我們每天我們自己都有自動機制在檢核這一類的就是類似這個普發網站這樣子的一個網址那如果說我們發現說它裡面內容是有疑似這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7556.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7567.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
這個詐騙我們就會給那個國務組這邊我知道你就直接把它蓋掉這個我都有看到我現在問題是現在各式各樣的政府官方網站裡面有沒有就有沒有什麼其他的認證機制除了看網址之外啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7568.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7590.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
有沒有要設計一下比如說防衛的圖騰或者是什麼樣的東西有沒有一些像這樣想法跟討論目前最簡單的它就是.govintw這樣子的一個網址的方式那另外一個就是如果說是傳輸的一個安全性的話我們都是要求每個機關的網站都是https這樣子至少在傳輸當中它的資料是加密的不會被人家接取走 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7590.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7613.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我是建議你們做一下思考啦就是政府網站的認真機制啦這樣可以讓未來 因為這也不是只有這一件事嘛你未來有很多政令要做相關的一些宣導跟一些未來詐騙集團也會道高一尺 謀高一丈我是怕這些東西現有的東西他就已經很容易仿冒 很容易突破然後是容易騙人 因為網址這種東西是有些人也不見得看得清楚嘛我覺得是破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7614.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7622.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
所以要用一些多重的方式來做防堵啦今天藉這個機會來給一下提醒然後最後是執行端的部分最近我們這個民間上越來越多人是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7624.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7644.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
為了要阻詐結果很多人是領錢啊轉帳啊他其實遇到了很多很多的狀況這我希望這個警政署內政部這邊金管會做一下優化不要到銀樓買黃金被三管無卡結果那個詐騙集團幾十億的人幾十萬就十幾萬就交保這就不對了嘛這輕重緩急比例要注意好拿捏可以嗎好大家一起打詐一起加油啦謝謝謝謝牛許廷委員接下來我們聽丁學忠委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7666.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7669.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
感謝召委我請內政部跟警政署內政部 警政署委員好 謝謝今天我們討論這個開發一萬戶的打砸的這個成果因為這次開發一萬戶還給我們建設氣管路電機電動給我們的詐騙集團有機可乘 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7696.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7698.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
好 委員我是不是請警政署來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7719.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7726.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
報告 因為這個爆發10萬戶從今年的照片已經統計到現在說有發生的案件差不多是9件那9件裡面的基礎差不多5件是這個車前進的這部分3件是這個門路 還有一個車子在台這部分我們現時是都 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7743.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7748.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
由案發的有限事件去向相關警察局升立專案現在就很煩了如果從整個詐騙的趨勢來看這件我們撥發一萬塊相關詐欺的案件發生的比例目前可以說是可以控制的財首你都很擔心了叫人家詐騙企業的金錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7767.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7773.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
剛才在報告裏面大概有八百多萬這次的重點是這樣那是剖發一萬棵結合甲鹼鎮跟做成八百多萬的財富其實我們已經要推出剖發一萬棵在光樓房定期詐騙集團已經準備好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7792.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7794.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
他們的技術兩位比我們更先進所以當我們做到那樣就聽到事端他們就無主意去等那個人長所以有可能這樣就造成他們的損失這個過分我們來進口經濟術家更辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7812.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7815.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
未來將對這個網絡經濟更加需要我們人的個資的股份這都要加強一下這個股份再拜託感謝委員這股份我們一定會再加強因為其實在網絡民眾污點這個不對的網站輸入個資現在是很嚴重的問題那委員剛才說點出來我也希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7838.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7844.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
透過委員接受這個方針來全都讓我們全國的民眾都了解可是操作網絡要特別小心尤其你要輸入個人的個資尤其要特別注意千萬不可以在網絡隨便來做輸入這是我們地方的警察局 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7861.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7866.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
平常時都有在宣導我們在遭痛的時候平常時在台上我們都會向記者宣導這個國分我相信說由上到下大家透過媒體也好透過網絡也好透過我們用我們的嘴出來說來宣導已經一定可以奉祉到這裡這個照片的案件好 感謝我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7890.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7895.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那個內政局啊 陳政署 你們先休息我請訴法局謝謝委員委員好 市長好有一個知名作家 他在他自己的臉書說他是窮 偽冒照片的第一名 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7915.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7919.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
因為這個部分是我們另外一個署在負責但是就我所知我們現在就是民眾如果透過我們網站通報查詢網去做這樣子的一個通報 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7937.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7959.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我們就會主動的來去看說這個是不是真的是一個詐騙訊息如果是的話那我們就會把這個網頁或者說是這樣子的一個FB我們就會用這個RPD的方式就是說讓民眾他輸入網址的時候會連不到那樣子的一個網頁用這樣的方式來去防止民眾去看到這樣子一個詐騙的一個網頁我們事發局是高飛 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7964.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7986.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
上線通過網 開垃圾經費跟這次申告如何不好意思這個細節的那個經費的話可能我們之後再提供給委員這邊那我們這個之前就已經有上線在去年就已經有上線然後後來我們有把它下架然後再做經把他再做精緻化之後有再重新上線一次這樣子我們這個防炸APP |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7991.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7995.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
下載的數量只有四萬而已但是有四十幾萬的通告可以說明這個查詢網的來源大概是到好 報告委員這個我們感言是我意思說這四十幾萬的通告是從哪裡通過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8011.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8029.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我們很多的管道在做通報啦不只是那個民眾然後我們自己我們也會有用AI的方式去網路上面尋有一些是那個網頁我們就覺得他是有可能是詐騙的網頁的話那我們就會把他這個這些的這個內容我們也會把它放在這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8030.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8049.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
通報草菁網裡面去做一個後續的一個檢查所以不只是民眾這邊去對疑似詐騙的網頁做通報我們自己也有自動的機制自動的機制那個部分的話其實也尋到蠻多類似的這樣子的一個網頁通報地方政府跟警察單位幫你們做三天的這也很重要我們大家緊張 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8059.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8065.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
前幾天通報的紀律都有比較多對我們這個戶籍的這個做法我們想說有什麼方法可以增加民眾的使用量當然第一個我們會有一些在各式的場合那如果可以方便的話我們都會跟民眾做這樣的宣導那也跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8083.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8109.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
一些相關的機關去宣導讓他們去跟這個民眾如果說他們有接觸到這些民眾的話可以跟他們做這樣的宣導那這是第一個那當然剛才委員也有提到說這樣子通報可能它的數量也是不多所以我們除了這樣子宣導讓民眾來通報之外我們剛才也有講到說一些自動化的機制我們也會持續的去盡盡量自動化去找這些類似這個詐騙網頁的這樣子的一個機制把它做得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8110.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8114.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
感謝市長我這其實問題有很多剛才市長在說有的,不是你的,要來看一看有的所以今天我們這個市法局雖然是市長以上的層級來整個簡單的問題就是要給大家提醒警察當年在現場努力的防炸每一次鄰居都透過警察跟航班第一時間來作動 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8140.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8149.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
大家盡快期待蘇法局可以做到三年前升職的時候那個國家優秀能力的發揮這個功能的蘇法局當這個數位建設和防範有更好既然這個通關網站機制已經建立起來希望可以發揮到 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8169.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8180.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
會這個好過跟主張的來軟這樣 再解釋一下好 謝謝委員好 謝謝 感謝朝委謝謝丁薛忠委員的質詢接下來我們請徐欣穎委員發言謝謝朝委 謝謝主席 本席請內政部吳次長有請吳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8199.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8210.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
市長 本席想請教我們行政院針對普發現金行政院有沒有召開一個跨部會針對普發現金防詐的跨部會的會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8215.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8241.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
谢谢委员指教我想这个在行政院也有打诈指挥中心其实我们在普发现金的作业中就是趁着我刚刚的专案报告的时候其实就已经有所以直接是打诈那边有针对普发现金我看9月份对 就是要针对舆请的部分未来发现金的时候就已经先所以9月份的时候有讨论对 9月份讨论之后有具体针对普发现金怎么防诈吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8242.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8271.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
这部分我是不是请那个检证署来说明一下因为我们在打诈有或没有就好我不用详细知道内容有是不是都有好那首先本席要讲的是我们现在防诈政府的动作还有这个感觉是政府在跟诈骗集团第一个比脑力第二个比速度比动作所以7月份就有普发现金1万元的资讯出来 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8273.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8297.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
詐騙集團就開始進行那我們政府九月嘛九月才開始那我在這裡要先請教內政部我們知道有在宣導有在宣傳而且有用各種媒體但是我請教有沒有其中一項宣導是請村里長跟林長有沒有有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8301.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8319.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
這個部分我跟委員特別報告因為部分的限制我時間不多啦有啦有啦有我們的管理如果有村里廣播系統的就可以做只有廣播系統的才做就村里一定有廣播系統的會公佈啦對啊只有這樣所以你們的做法是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8321.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8324.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
有的有發傳單所以你們沒有一個統一的做法讓村里長跟林長直接對民眾做宣導沒有明確的吧沒有明確的這個都是拜託民政單位配合這塊有沒有可能改進因為普發現金我們在10月17三讀通過那就是底定了 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8346.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8362.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那在抵定之前詐騙集團就已經在運作了那我們抵定之後還沒有對我們的民眾特別我們容易受騙的當然網路的宣導還有一些各種電子媒體平面媒體OK |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8363.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8380.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
可是有一群民眾就是一些譬如長者或是中低收入戶身心障礙者他們有些人可能比較沒有長期在使用或接觸你們的宣導平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8381.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8403.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
可是這些在林長 村里長他們是會直接接觸的所以這一塊內政部可不可以趕快來加強謝謝委員長我想尤其像一般比較正確的高齡長者全國所有的偏鄉還有這些高齡長者而且他們也是很容易被詐騙的 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8404.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8430.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
我們現在是針對高齡長者的部分的宣導所以針對這一塊是不是加強可以我會請民政單位來做協助對民政因為最主要這個在民政然後再來關懷據點關懷據點的加強宣導這個你們要跨部會這個可能在衛福部就在衛福部對所以這些我要特別提醒好那這個接下來接下來就是我們主要幾個主軸這次普發現金 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8433.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8450.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我們可以上網登錄直接入帳還有有一些它本來就有帳戶國家會直接打進去的那有很大一塊是ATM對不對ATM的部分我想次長或是副署長今天來 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8451.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8470.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
你們應該很清楚我們ATM現在有一種有一種這種詐騙就是他會在這個ATM現金出鈔口裝金屬板或是其他裝置讓鈔票沒有辦法順利吐出可是實際上錢已經離開了銀行喔次長你知道有這種情況嗎我們台灣好像還沒有台灣很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8480.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8493.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
台灣還沒有嗎跟委員報告這一委員剛提出來的案例外國確實有發生在台灣目前我們是還沒有接過相關的報案台灣的民眾沒有我手上資料就很多ATM這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8496.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8524.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我其實也是今天這個案我才知道有這一個情況而且我們查了有啊這個整個媒體都有所以這一塊我們真的要趕快來防堵因為接下來好像是在17號開始ATM就要開始可以在ATM取款所以我們現在台灣還沒有但是那我要問了有沒有部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8525.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8538.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
其實有喔 我這邊手上有資料我了解 可能我們現在ATM提令如果說民眾提令發生問題他直接就會聯絡相關的銀行來做處理那要加強部署這部分沒問題啦來來來 我就要針對這一塊你ATM很多民眾他以為是故障他覺得是機器故障他可能就離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8554.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8572.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
离开ATM他就走了结果设装置的诈骗者他就过来他就有办法把钱就领走了这一个情况我们台湾17号下礼拜一马上就开始ATM了 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8573.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8594.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我們不希望聽到因為全國除了銀行的ATM還有很多超商都有ATM所以這一塊本席要求我們要在那個螢幕上請銀行加強警示如果你鈔票沒有順利出來第一個提醒他不要離開第二個馬上聯絡什麼電話來確認不然等到他覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8604.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8610.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
這個機器有問題那我就去反應機器結果他離開前就被領走了這個部分你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8613.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8642.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
ATM的部分今天剛好主管的金管會有來我理解是都有做了金管會要給他說明一下是不是來金管會針對這一塊ATM你們有沒有掌握到因為馬上我覺得很大宗會用ATM跟委員報告之前像這個錢被擋住的情形我們這邊是沒有得到銀行有通報的案例但是我們有請銀行來加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8643.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8669.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
在這個他們設置的ATM的一個巡查那如果客戶在領錢的時候有任何的問題都可以就近跟行員來問那如果是行外的就像超商的那我們也有請這個銀行在這個上面一定要寫聯絡電話那如果有任何的問題都可以盡快先打電話所以聯絡電話還不夠你要警示不要離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8671.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8684.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
他如果离开就没有办法了离开人家就去拿了是可不可以加强这一块而且这个部分我们下个礼拜一就开始有ATM提领的整个已经开始 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8684.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8708.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
所以在这之前我们要请银行一定要整个做巡查跟盘查并且我要请金管会要确认你那个警示要加强那个警示的讯息你一定要叫他先不要离开他离开这个诈骗的方式就是他离开钱就他一离开人家都在锁定他离开他钱就被领走了 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8709.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8733.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
是 那我们回去我们看怎么来对 你们要赶快加速因为我们中华民国政府我们台湾怎么都输给这个诈骗集团的动作速度还有各种花样各种方式如果国外已经有我们应该要超前部署其实现在部署已经不是超前了 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8733.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8759.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
所以這一塊可不可以加強一定要加強我們不希望這一波的普發現金一萬元發生這樣的情況好嗎好最後我們請這個是陰陽局副局長是不是那麻煩最後本席要在這裡來詢問一下次長還有副局長請問你們有沒有聽過共享責任框架 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8763.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8782.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
新加坡在去年年底就去年12月實施一個共享責任框架這個框架是新加坡的金管局他們的金管局主導也就是說強制金融機構還有電信業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8783.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8788.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
他必須分攤防詐的責任如果銀行沒有盡到實時的詐騙監控的義務就必須對受害者進行補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8797.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8825.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
這個是新加坡在做的那我們台灣呢不管是這次的普發現金或者是日常的轉帳防詐的責任好像都在政府的宣導還有人民自己注意這兩塊那銀行好像是局外人做收手續費可是卻不用負擔實質的這個防詐的責任所以我們台灣應該要來思考所以你們從來不知道這種情況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8827.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8845.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
而且我在這邊講一下新加坡因為這樣做他們整個的防詐詐損率降低了30%降低了30%我這樣算我們一年那個詐騙金額上千億你30%就少掉300億 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8847.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8864.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
所以這一個部分我要在這裡要求我們金管會今天當然是銀行局副局長來是不是可以帶回去是不是可以來研擬可以嗎我們把委員的這個建議我們帶回去來做研議對 可不可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8866.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8891.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
一个月内或两个月好了你们看我们这个台湾版的金融防诈共享责任框架你们至少看你们讨论的可行性或者是你们可以怎么来做因为大家要共同有责任可以吗两个月给你们两个月对因为我看你们好像对这一块还不知道我们其实常常可以见闲思齐 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8892.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8913.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
世界各國打詐有效而且呢能夠真實的確實的能夠防堵詐騙有成效的國家的做法我們真的可以來借鏡 好不好好的好 好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝徐欣英委員接下來我們請鄭天才委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8936.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8960.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
好 主席 各位委員 請次長請吳次長委員好 次長好這個今天要談的是跟這個災後復原重建有關係所以要請次長特別轉達給這個國土署好 這個我曾經在10月23號發函針對有關這個房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8966.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8994.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
他原来的房子住这边有户籍在这里后来分家分家但是户籍还在这里这边又盖一个房子盖了房子但是他户籍还在这里自有独立的房屋了也有店表村长也发了实际居住的证明了结果你们没有同意答复了没有同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8996.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9023.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
这个我们从法律面水灾灾害救助总列及标准规定的很清楚第4条第5款住户淹水救助实际居住之住屋最主要实际居住之住屋他还没有谈所有钱赚什么之类没有谈实际居住之住屋还不是那个 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9024.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9052.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
这个住宅医法的住宅那两个字所以这个不是很宽的因水在淹水达50公里以上以一门牌为一副计算但是很重要通常你们会忽略掉这个但书但见物分别独立或非属独立而为不同利生活负责因依其事实认定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9053.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9080.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
所以何況這個特別條例還要更寬不受一門牌與附之限制並排除現行水災災害救助種類的規範的限制所謂的排除不是說是要更寬的意思特別條例就是要更寬所以這個部分要回去請那個國土署重新再審查何況在這個當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9083.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9111.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
特別條例裡面本來要把這些條文放進去後來說大家朝野協商就說用附帶結義所以這裡面寫得很清楚實際居住自有獨立房屋有的有所有錢狀有的沒有所有錢狀有的有社戶籍有的沒有門牌但是他就是一個自有獨立房屋所以這個部分要請這個次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9112.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9140.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
好不好好謝謝委員我想那個這次馬太安的這個特別條例也過了那接下來就是現場還有一些要認定的部分那我想委員剛談的部分我會請國土署就這個認定標準第一個重寬重減不只是這一次包括這一次的風災豪雨包括蘇澳這邊也是很嚴重啊都有所以這個部分要請同仁重寬去處理這個我們會來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9142.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9146.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
尤其是光復這個有特別預算嘛好不好好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9153.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9169.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
謝謝曾天才委員的發言那接下來請賴會員發言賴會員委員不在請鍾嘉斌委員發言鍾嘉斌委員不在請武力華委員武力華委員不在請林俊憲委員林俊憲委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9175.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9185.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
現在我們請何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在請陳素月委員陳素月委員陳素月委員不在現在請吳啟明委員發言好 召委一位同仁請我們內政部處長還有我們事務發布的王司長我請內政部還有事務發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9203.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9227.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
委員好好 次長好今天大家都在關心就是詐騙集團尤其我們現在要普發這1萬塊那本市這邊的資料已經有詐騙集團詐騙了800多萬那其實他們現在的詐騙的手法又翻新了像那個油脊 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9228.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9257.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
尤其來聯絡那個被害者說他的一萬塊的補花已經被人領走了那還能盜取他的所有的資料尤其光是一筆就來到300多萬是一個黃金的點子那這個是我們事發部要怎樣來防止因為很多詐騙都是在網路也好網路的刊登 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9257.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9279.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
因為網路刊登真的都是一些層出不窮那我們的政府要怎樣來喝止這個詐騙集團不要再一直延燒下去那這是對國人一種保障那未來我們有沒什麼具體的喝止的方案請我們事劃部來回答還是我們處長要回答報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9283.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9303.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
針對於網站或是網頁的這樣的詐騙那我們蘇大部這邊目前最重要的機制就是一個網站通報查詢網包括民眾如果檢舉這樣子的一個詐騙或者是說我們自己我們有一個自動的去巡查就是在網路上面我們有一個AI的這樣子一個程式自己去巡 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9304.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9327.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我們有認為疑似詐騙或疑似是這個有問題的這種網頁我們就會把他納到那裡面那我們會去跟這個當事人或是說是跟機關這邊來求證如果他確定是一個詐騙的話我們就會把讓他阻斷然後民眾可以不要連到他上面去那針對這一次的普發這個部分的話我們也是一樣就會用這樣子的方式也用這樣的方式來做一個巡查 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9328.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9339.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
因為現在是剛開始而已那你後續還會有很多這種案件我們要怎樣來克制這種這種比較具體的因為我看我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9341.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9366.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
不管在網路不管在電視媒體是不是多先導民眾讓民眾多一層了解對他們也多一層的保障那不然你算詐騙集團真的在台灣真的非常的橫行那也當真的是整個對台灣的國民有的都損失的都是非常嚴重都是他們的辛苦錢所以我們要怎樣想出一套 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9367.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9396.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
比較快的速度能來渡劫你看在網路刊登有問題的話就馬上要求他們來下架這是比較具體的因為這是事務發布的職權是你們主管單位所以真的一些詐騙那麼很險都是我們事務發布一定要非常積極我看我們警政署包含我們情治單位大家都很賣力在做那是不是我們事務部也要負起這個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9398.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9422.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
也是跟委員報告就是我們包括說我們自己去巡查這樣子的一個網站我們會更積極然後那個巡查那個方式也會更精確另外一個就是針對一些目前一萬的這個部分我們宣導都是說各個民眾他就是只相信一萬.gov.tw這樣子的網站的諮詢另外就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9423.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9448.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
包括金融機構包括我們政府機關都不會主動的去通知民眾說來領錢或者說是有什麼樣子的狀況這樣子這個是我們就是從源頭就是希望說防止就是讓民眾就不用相信這些其他的來源的一些資訊對啦因為我們事務部你看是人手人手到底夠不過因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9450.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9479.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
網站一出來我們還是你樹花部我們是剛成立是人員編制夠不夠編制的部分的話這個部分我就可能不是我職權上面可以回答但是就我們現在在做導致這個部分包括我們自己的素產署還有我們那個其他的幾個司署都同時就全力的來做一個協助對要求我們同仁一定要積極因為本市這邊監察院也發出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9480.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9504.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
對於自信隱私的法治環境建構不足其實你看了在國際的那個網路平台你上那個ETA他們一年的收益那個金額都非常嚇人光是詐騙集團的網站他們的收益那所以我們台灣一定要很嚴格去管制只要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9505.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9534.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
有問題的網站我們都要很積極包含我們各單位都是要全力來配合這樣才能夠來做好這種動作好不好好好謝謝謝謝吳啟明委員發言接下來請林楚英委員發言林楚英委員林楚英委員不在請陳冠廷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9543.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9554.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我們請這一個先請先請內政部好了請內政部吳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9557.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9577.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
市長好市長我今天要問的是針對炸棄犯的資料庫的建置那今天有數位部內政部跟金管會財政部都有派員來那我想要來一個一個來請教上個月我來質詢法務部長的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9578.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9591.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那有問他說是否能讓金融機構來事前比對有關詐欺相關的前科或者是通緝犯的資料時他說因為這個法源的關係可能要他保留態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9592.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9618.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那法務部認為目前沒有明確的法源可以授權這樣的資料的勾結那現在的預警中心即使提供賬戶資料也必須去識別化是不是這樣這個我想要確認一下這個部長講的是正確的嗎跟內政部的這一個得到的資訊也是一樣的嗎或者是你們的方針也是一樣的嗎我想我可不可以請那個警政署來幫我們說明一下警政署任何可以說明的人都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9621.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9648.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
是不是可以把前科或者是通緝犯的資料先做事前比對這個有沒有這個法源上面的疑慮目前詐房條例上面是沒有這個法源目前沒有嗎目前沒有所以沒有辦法在明確的法源之下提供賬戶資料給不管是銀行或者是預警中心就是明確的這些可能是通緝犯可能是這個前科犯現在還是沒有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9649.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9674.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那就你們在內政部的了解跟應對這些詐欺犯的話你覺得未來修法可以把這個東西併入嗎你們有什麼樣的擔憂或者是你們覺得這是一個好的方法跟委員報告只要能夠防治詐騙當然我們都很樂意協助打擊詐騙的相關單位包括銀行在內提供他們詳盡的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9677.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9696.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
據我的理解我們還有一個信用信用的徵信中心那如果法律允許的話我們警政署是樂見這樣的方式來做對打擊詐騙的一個處理所以說如果我們包含立法委員主動提案的話針對前科犯針對詐欺犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9697.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9715.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
真的有詐欺的前科犯跟通緝犯的話你們是會認為這樣子的立法是有助於你們去防詐當然有助於因為我們現在的防詐系統就因為包含隱私的保障等等所以沒有辦法去做這些預防的動作所以我們看到說詐欺犯出獄兩年的再犯率是23% |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9716.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9735.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
23.2所以這代表說我們是讓高風險的這一群人不斷的重複作業因為我們現在不是在抓新的光是抓舊的就抓不完我要把這些累犯的炸雞飯的資訊來提供給銀行做高風險的勾擊這樣可以未來有效的來去減免那接下來我要請問數位發展部你好 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9745.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9762.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那我現在要請教數位部假設我們如同剛才的內政部的這些同仁們所提到的有這樣相關的修法之後可以把這些包含已經通緝的有前科特別是詐欺前科的可以做勾擊的話你們能不能夠協助相關的制度跟系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9763.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9789.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
以後就是讓這些內政部警政單位所掌握的犯罪資料可以依法提供給金融監理單位來去做事前的防範就是說不用再重新再去搜尋因為你要如果要去從資料庫搜尋要搜尋前科再搜尋種類再搜尋詐欺再搜尋時間有沒有再累積再犯你們有沒有辦法做出一個很好的界面是 跟委員報告其實我們現在在跨機關的資料傳輸的這邊我們已經有一個叫做T-Law的一個傳輸的管道那是 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9790.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9795.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
讓機關之間如果他傳輸機敏的資料的話都可以透過這樣子的管道來傳所以剛才委員講到幾個這樣子的一個機關如果以後要 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9798.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9823.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
做些機密資料傳輸 都可以用這樣子的機制只要有法源基礎之後我再確認一下 只要有法源基礎之後包含通緝跟我們把他限縮在詐欺 潛科跟詐欺的這個累犯就能夠透過你們的系統把這些名單 潛科 灌犯 集團帳戶到被查的金流資訊傳給金融機構你們是有自信可以把這個東西完成做好各位報告 我們那個是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9824.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9836.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
一個傳輸的管道安全傳輸管道至於說要傳什麼樣的資料或是說在接收端或是提供端這邊應該要用什麼樣子的一個你可以傳出這些資料給他們那金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9845.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9869.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
你好那我想請教金管會的同仁你們現在有推這個鷹眼市詐聯盟跟刑事警察局35家銀行還有AI的新創公司合作你說要透過AI模型去分析嗎那目前是主要是分析是不是有異常金流我目前這樣講都不正確嗎是的有計算協助這個銀行進行事後的凍結或通報這樣講沒錯吧是那我剛才提到這些事前的這些狀況目前還沒有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9870.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9893.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
跟委員報告如果是事前的話銀行都會有自建的名單這個名單可能是買的可能是負面新聞上去查像通緝犯那些那個名單可能就不完整還是需要剛才我們剛才聽到數位部的可以把這些機敏的資訊只要有法源基礎傳給我們的金管的這個單位那他們就可以漏過這個因緣人模 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9893.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9904.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
事前的去做預防有更完整的資料庫這樣做的話是不是更適合更能夠妥當的去來打擊這個詐欺是如果銀行的這個資訊多的話他更能辨識高風險的 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9905.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9927.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
好 那我今天為什麼難得有這個機會我把這個數位部監管會內政部我把你們現在遇到的主要的問題把它提出來當我們有收集完這些完整的資訊之後我們就可以跟保護部來去一起請教看怎麼樣可以把我們之前講的法源的基礎把它做好當然我們可以作為立法委員自己提案但是我希望更好的方式是有一個願板 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9928.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9951.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
也就是說數位部經管會跟這個內政部直接跟法務部來去討論說怎麼樣能夠在權衡法源基礎之下來提出剛才我講到這個法案能夠把這個預防重複犯的這個法案能夠來提出來就是說累犯通緝犯特別是詐欺的前科犯整個資料庫完整之後你們再去做AI的攻擊會更有效謝謝好 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9957.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9963.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
謝謝陳冠廷委員的發言接下來我們請蘇欽全委員蘇欽全委員蘇欽全委員不在現在請楊瓊英委員謝謝主席 楊瓊發言首先邀請蘇發布邀請蘇發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9982.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9999.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
本席請教 從我們今年的11月5號我們開始發放普發現金1萬元的政策線上登記您領了嗎我自己還沒領 還沒去登記還沒登記 那你預估會用什麼方式呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10000.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10017.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我應該也是用這個線上登記的方式用線上登記那平台上現在登記需要填寫身份證金融帳號健保卡那當然我們現在宣稱說是符合這個高資安的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10018.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10037.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
但是你有沒有聽到民眾因為近期的這個詐騙氾濫所以你只要涉及要填寫的這一些他都會擔心受騙所以他寧可放棄了線上登記改到ATM或者是改到郵局臨櫃來領現金 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10040.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10058.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這樣子的現象等於會直接反映到速發部我們在政策落實跟在民眾的信賴度建立上似乎還有精進的空間那麼本席在這邊要請教也就是速發部你如何看待民眾生怕我將這三個資料這個登記上網之後呢怕會被詐騙因為現在詐騙非常的氾濫那你要怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10068.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10086.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
如何來讓平台他是有信任度操作是安全跟防詐的一個教育請做說明是 報告委員就是我們現在包括剛才委員講到的說身份證字號健保卡號跟帳號其實他是要同一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10087.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10102.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我们会去检查是同一个人才会去把那个钱汇进去所以即使他这个身份证号当然是同一个人你怎么可能身份证跟你的账号不一样那你怎么可能对不对你这说明螺旗怪怪的当然是同一个人他就依照你的指令这样去登记但是他会害怕因为诈骗犯难太严重所以即使说这个诈骗集团拿着别人的资料去填 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10117.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10144.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
最后这个钱一定是汇到这个人的账号因为他三个是要同一个人才会通过所以最有钱不会汇到诈骗集团的账号去一定是到这个人的账号那这个是我们技术上面可以把它解决的你们现在技术这么解决但是会再衍生第二个问题也就是我这一些资料公开之后在我还没有收到钱的时候他会不会被转换出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10145.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10173.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
有沒有這個危機不會不會會不會有這個危機這個就是本席非常希望因為它是一個便利的但是當民眾有疑慮的時候我們要怎麼樣去解除民眾的疑慮只有我們單位知道民眾還是這個憂心這樣是不夠的所以本席才會說我們在整個信賴度上面我們要怎麼樣去加強還有我們防詐的一個教育要怎麼樣落實讓民眾可以清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10174.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10189.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
報告委員我們可以在我們那個10000.gov.nz這個網站上面就在登記那邊我們可以多一點訊息讓民眾可以更放心這樣子的一個方式這個也是你精進的方案之一所以本席也希望因為我們現在剛開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10190.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10211.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
很多人還是告訴我說我去郵局領 我去ATM領這樣我比較放心但是我們既然已經有速發部來開發不要讓民眾不放心你把你的經濟方案給本席讓民眾對於我們的平台是信賴的好的把那個方案給本席 謝謝接下來本席邀請金管會 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10217.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10226.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
金管會我們接受到蠻多的一個陳情因為金管會我們在要求銀行啟用這個AI風險系統打擊詐騙控管 這是對的但是問題是有很多的零工的經紀者比如說網拍 呼編單這一種的以及中高齡的用戶那麼他們因為是小額平凡的交易或者是新轉帳的這個情況比較頻繁 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10247.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10265.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
但是它是一個正常的一個生活所需的必要技術也好 方法也好必要用的一個它的工具所以在這種情況之下有一個帳戶在三個月內有26筆的小額匯款但是另外還有6筆每一筆不到3000元 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10267.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10295.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
不到3000元的這個匯款但是它被銀行鎖住了那鎖住了它當然它的生財工具就被凍結所以在這樣的一個情況之下因為它被誤以為是高風險的賬號所以在這樣的情況之下呢本席要請教我們銀行如果在明確的標準跟救濟的管道應該要有這些救濟的管道要迅速 而且有救濟的管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10296.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10320.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
能夠讓民眾在正常生活跟正常收入的時候它不受影響因為它的一個經濟體的方式是不一樣的是小額而且頻繁的所以我們希望也就是金融在防詐的時候不要成為它是生活的阻礙而且削弱了金融的一個包容性所以因此本席要請教對於合法使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10321.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10338.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
因高風險而被排除金融體系的這個情況我們對於這樣子的一個銀行風險控管的標準以及設立快速救濟的通道我們應該是要提出具體的方案吧請做說明是 謝委員的這個垂詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10341.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10371.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
那我们对于银行去控管账户我们都会要求他做一个事前的一个标准严格的标准的一个审查那事中的话也要随时去看这个客户的一个实际的状况那事后的话也要检查他们控管的这个方式合不合理像委员刚提到的个案那如果是正常交易的那他如果被锁住了要马上跟银行联络银行就会去判断他如果是网拍他有大量进出的需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10371.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10394.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
那他馬上就會給他解鎖那這個解鎖的方式可能包括電話 網路 臨櫃都可以沒有那麼清楚也沒有那麼簡便所以本席接到這樣子的陳情所以要跟這個單位來說明我們當然防詐我們一定要防詐控管這個風險但是它是正常所需要的當他發現被鎖的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10398.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10406.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
他去陳情的時候他去說明的時候本席認為在整個救濟的管道應該要更便捷更快速是就誠如我剛跟委員報告的目前大概就是我剛說的三種方式那如果是個案的話委員是不是可以提供給我們不是說個案我們現在在討論的 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10421.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10450.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
是他的制度跟方向所以本席也具體建議您給這個銀行團告訴他們你們現在有你們的方案那你們是不是再去檢視民眾有困難的時候如果他屬實你們查證他是如本席剛才所說的忽偏大的網拍的他必須要如此的時候那麼也請具體以快速簡便的方式讓他們可以恢復他正常生活所需 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10451.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10458.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
是 好 我們回去再好 進行方案給本席 好嗎好 謝謝謝謝楊瓊明委員發言接下來我們請林思明委員發言好 謝謝召委召委我們請移民署副署長請副署長委員好副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10481.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10510.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
有關這次那個詐騙集團太子集團我們看一下那個報紙的這個所載說兩位終極高層來台報找林思明李德維官說那移民署你們的回應是什麼跟委員報告就是這我們所了解其實這個這部分的話有關這部分相關的案件並沒有委員這方面的一個關切 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10511.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10535.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
沒有嘛你大聲說出來有沒有沒有沒有嘛其實這個我看你們的回應報紙就看紅框那一段移民署回應說其中一位留學風是在2015年以團體旅遊試遊來台另一位李承承則在2017和2018以旅機海外路人來台觀光試遊來台 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10537.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10561.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
請問副組長 是這兩位分別是在2015 2017 2018的觀光室有來台嘛當時本席啊還不是立委 這你知道吧 是我不是立委啊 是所以媒體什麼一花接木啊一勾到塞勾說我是三屆的資深立委硬要把它湊在一起把這件事湊在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10562.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10586.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
所以本席當時任職的是新竹縣議會我想問移民署議員有權責可以跟你們去做任何的一個關說嗎有可能嗎 我講可能就好了你不要講有沒有 有可能嗎議員可以去利用職權去關說移民署嗎跟委員報告這個案件確實是沒有就沒有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10587.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10610.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
所以我想李德維我也要幫他這個講一下李德維委員當時也是不是不分區委員他跟我一樣都是2020以後才擔任立委所以我們有什麼權責可以去影響到移民署就相關境外人士入台的相關的一個審查所以這件事情真的是非常的烏龍那我想這個其實署長 副長 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10616.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10637.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
對於相關這些入台人士他到底他符不符合相關的一個規定可以到我們進入入台你們審查的程序大概是怎麼樣你可以說一下嗎我們這部分的話針對這些如果是有具有中國大陸背景的部分我們會有一個聯審的機制會依照相關的規定來嚴格的審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10640.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10661.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
所以你們一定會依照相關的規定依法嚴格審查而且是聯席審查不是只有你們還有陸委會好多單位聯席的一個審查所以即便我們講即便我是立委我有可能干涉嗎可以干涉到你們嗎可以去什麼關說或者用任何的方式來影響你們嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10662.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10681.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
報告不管是民眾或者是民意代表都行政機關都會接受詢問詢問可能是一些行政流程或什麼等等但是有關這個審查的部分呢行政機關這跨機關的審查一定是依法辦理是好謝謝最後我要再跟副長確認本席從我是20202月1號上任立委 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10688.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10713.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
從20202月1號我擔任立委到現在的所謂的他們紫色 隱色說什麼我去關說到現在為止 到今天為止本席辦公室有針對任何一位太子集團的成員他入境台灣的申請案發過任何的函文或者召開任何的一場協調會嗎報告沒有本席辦公室有嗎報告沒有沒有嗎是OK |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10715.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10739.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
所以本席我想我在這裡一定要大聲的嚴正的我要再做聲明過去我擔任縣議員或是現任立法委員從來沒有對太子集團的相關人士進行關說對於任何的詐騙行為我們更是深惡痛絕將來我會繼續秉持我立委的職責打擊詐騙保護我們民眾生命財產的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10739.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10751.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我想我是新竹縣民新竹縣民的清白不容被污蔑被欺壓白白不給我擬到歐有這種媒體所以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10758.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10769.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
移民署 像你們的回應你們跟這個媒體的回應我不知道是什麼但是我還是希望移民署沒有的事你們要大聲跟媒體講你不能這樣烏龍爆料這樣去損害一個人的名譽你要告訴他真的我覺得這事情太離譜了但我也謝謝你剛才還我的一個清白明確的告訴社會大眾絕對沒有這件事以上 謝謝謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10787.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10810.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
謝謝林思明委員 確實這個也請移民署這邊會後也能夠來再說一個說明把你們的說的話還跟媒體的話剪接在一起也容易讓民眾無道而造成一些困擾我相信這個署裡面之後也來做一些澄清的動作 謝謝移民署接下來我們請邱志偉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10824.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10846.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
好謝謝是不是請內政部警政署林副署長請管會應當局王副局長好請 助發部政府數位政務司王市長請以上單位好委員好這個有時候詐團真的是非常厲害這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10848.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10870.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
每一個timing都比政府相關政策細節都設想更做到所以有時候SATO變成一個政策的參與者為什麼這樣講有很多的這個 比方說這次的普發現金一萬塊銀行 銀行局是不是有18家的銀行有這個普發加碼有沒有普發加碼 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10873.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10895.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
是ATM的部分對 普發價碼所以你就這樣說這個有很多的訊息比方有18家小營普發價碼是利益良善但是會有很多讓這個詐團去做政策參與的空間一般民眾沒有辦法去判別哪一個是真的這個APP哪一個是假的APP哪一個是真的QR碼沒有辦法去判別所以你政策越複雜它就更多參與的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10903.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10928.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
因為你那麼多資訊裡面連一般這個知識分子或者這個青壯年都沒有辦法去做很精確的判斷更何況這個老年人或者銀髮族或者是我們長輩所以你們有這個責任去針對所有的這個每個 scenario不管是銀行局針對18家銀行或者是這個警政署 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10929.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10954.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
或者是速發部你要加強宣導哪些是正確的網站比方說這個普發現金的這個官網官網印尼達普發現金它出來的正確網站哪一個可以去分辨然後各單位沒有去試權啊財政部有財政部的網站然後內政部有內政部的網站國庫署還有國庫署的網站莫衷於是每個銀行也有它銀行的網站 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10962.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10973.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
所以利益良善的政策讓很多的這個詐團有很多的這個參與的這個縫隙跟空間他只要一個環節紀錄你的個資又被盜走了你的錢被領走了所以我覺得這部分是不是警政署這個或者是次長這邊有沒有什麼具體的對策這個有沒有做過統計受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10990.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11014.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
是年長者比較多對不對有沒有做過統計詐騙的受害者那個李副署長跟我們報告目前看起來詐騙的受害者的部分老年人年長者啊占一定的比例差不多兩下左右啦並不是最高但也是非常嚴重有沒有說集中在這個非都會區或者都會區 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11015.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11042.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
大部分均分配是比較多的當然譬如講偏鄉地區還是有花生所以你要針對比較容易產生詐騙行為或者受害者比較集中的區域哪些區域你要加強去宣導跟我們報告有的而且還結合衛生署的長照機構都有加強這一部分的一個宣導所以我要說的是你現在各部分沒有統一 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11043.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11051.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那特別銀行局你針對這18家這個普發普發加碼的部分你要做一個管控你要跟民眾這個說明銀行局要說明這哪些是正確的網站另外速發部有責任速發部速發部你應該有一個全國統一的政府的數位認證的制度你們有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11067.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11086.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我們這一次就是針對於普發一萬的部分我們就是對外宣導或者說是我們自己都是只認明在一萬.gov這個網站至於剛才那個向委員有在畫面上顯示普發網站這件事情的話他會連到財政部那邊他裡面的內容也會 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11087.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11113.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
連到這個普發10000的網站即使說民眾他可能不知道說他10000.gov.tw到底是把他打在網址列還是打在這個Google搜尋列那我們也有設計說即使他打在搜尋列我們第一個出來的也是我們普發10000的那個網站所以讓民眾可以比較容易就到這個我們10000的這個網站訊息一定要正確而且要集中然後讓人民要讓老百姓能夠很明確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11115.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11122.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
辨別真偽另外這個互動式的這個防詐界面這裡面也要考慮去建立這個書畫部互動式的防詐界面另外跨部會也要有這個虛偽網站的這個監控機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11134.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11150.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
你要要求這個平台馬上下架虛偽網站因為你虛偽網站存在比方說過去很多申請簽證那根本是假的網站嘛所以你要有跨部會的你沒看過嗎 聽不懂啦在我這裡啦 在我頭上裡面啦虛偽網站的這個監控機制你跨部會去查在銀行局你要去查你這個18家普發現金的這個銀行到底哪些是虛偽的 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11163.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11190.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
包括抒發部你要協調各部會去有一個網站微網站的這個監控機制虛偽網站監控機制然後讓數位安全能夠這個教育能夠深入到每一個世代每一個區域這防篡不是現在才做是持續都會存在我們唯有更好的政策來防堵來防避我說說看的都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11191.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11208.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
都是相對這個比較弱勢的所以這部分我想各部會要特別蘇發部我覺得要更努力把這個機制建立起來好謝謝好謝謝邱志維委員接下來我們請葉元之委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11223.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11227.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我先請財政部請財政部這個是副署長我想問一下因為昨天大家開始陸陸續續有收到這1萬塊那如果用匯款的話有兩種標註記的方式一種叫行政院發另外一個叫全民加一政府相挺請教一下這是為了防詐嗎還是 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11254.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11282.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
當初是怎麼考量要這樣子註記是 跟委員報告這次我們的補發現金一萬塊我們是參照112年那時候補發六千塊的一個模式所以在入帳的相關的訊息裡面就是會用行政院發跟補發的專案名稱主要就是說讓民眾知道就是這個這筆錢是行政院發的 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11284.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11311.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那政府鄉庭是為什麼會有這四個字那是這個普發現金一萬的專案的名稱這個現金專案叫政府鄉庭我以為叫做違憲我以為叫掏空國庫我以為叫做債留子孫不是啦 我覺得你們政府怎麼這樣當時我們國民黨民眾黨在立法院說要普發現金一萬的時候行政院把我們講那麼難聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11314.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11339.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
說這個錢違憲啊 淘空國庫債留子孫啊然後院長講說這個錢拿去買遙控飛機冰箱就沒了讓那些領到錢的人覺得很不好意思對 我怎麼去貪了一萬塊就現在發錢的時候說 欸 這我挺你啊我很贊同你們現在的態度啊可是為什麼當時大家在討論這件事情的時候你不是說 對 我們大家就來看看怎麼挺一起來挺人民 拼經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11340.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11362.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
所以很多民眾啊本來收到一萬塊很開心啊很開心然後看到那個政府相挺就開始怎麼有這四個字就開始覺得很奇怪了所以希望我們的政府啦如果覺得這個事情是挺的話一開始就不要為反對而反對啦謝謝這個財安部請問那我現在講抒發部是市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11369.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11375.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
市長那個最近速發部說有統計一個名人最容易受到詐騙的第一名是誰市長市長我想要問市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11386.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11400.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
對不起你們今天部長都沒有來了然後問個司長然後司長又再找別人回答是 更為您報告因為這個我們整體的這個詐騙的這個業務的話是在我們部裡面分工是在素產組這邊所以我請那個素產組這邊可以幫忙做一個回答更為您報告我現在馬上看一下查一下那個不用啦 不用啦因為我們在這邊時間非常有限第一名叫吳淡如啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11414.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11429.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那為什麼我會知道呢其實肅發部平常在發這些新聞有時候我們沒看到但吳淡如我為什麼會知道因為吳淡如出來罵肅發部啊他說肅發部不要只會在那邊統計到底哪一些名人最容易被詐騙好不好這是吳淡如講的不是我講的他說你們也 這是他講的引述原話肅發部就是一個養肥貓的單位政務官沒有解決問題的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11442.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11466.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
只會在這邊統計哪些名人你是不會解決喔我不知道數碼部的人聽到被這樣批評有什麼感想跟委員報告這個部分的話當然我們現在的機制是民眾可以來這個通報然後我們自己也會有這個自動的一個機制去查好這些的這個ES廣告啊這些那如果說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11468.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11478.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
發現說這樣子的一個廣告可能是有這個詐騙的一個風險的話我們會跟這些名人直接去跟他們去你們都是有機制啦但是為什麼人家就人家會覺得你們是一個養肥貓單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11480.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11499.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
你絕對是有做事啊你不可能四味素餐啊領高興都什麼事都不做嘛但是現在是做得夠不夠好不好的問題嘛那現在你統計一個名人最容易被詐騙理論上來講我相信你是想要提醒大家說哎呦吳淡如他很容易被冒名喔大家只要看到吳淡如要小心喔對不對利益也是良善啊可是為什麼被提醒的那一個主角他會這麼生氣因為他會覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11508.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11528.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
自己生病不要叫別人吃藥嘛你書發部應該要先把這個詐騙的問題解決啊你們現在跟那些社群網站的聯繫到底暢不暢通啊跟FB有聯繫嗎這邊跟委員報告我們目前跟這些平台我們都保持密切對那如果很密切的話為什麼還會這個狀況而且說FB萃友嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11532.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11558.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
因為他一樣都是那個Meta旗下那個平台所以你會針對他旗下各個平台平常都會一直提醒他我在Twitter上面也看到非常多的詐騙昨天網路上有一個我看到了有一個什麼女老師說他PO一個照片在教室裡面拍的他說他是基隆某個國小的女老師47歲單身然後在留言那邊要附上他的ID然後結果網友抓包你說你在基隆的學校可是客座椅是 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11558.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11588.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
另外一個國小就很擺明就是詐騙像這麼明顯的按讚一堆留言一堆的我不知道像這種平常到底有沒有去抓這種看你就知道他的模式嘛你加了他的ID他就叫你投資然後你接下一個詐騙嘛這麼猖獗所以大家真的期待速發部多做一點事啦可以嗎這邊是跟委員報告就是說我們跟Meta這一邊就是說因為我們都會做定期的這些掃描機制那如果我們有發現一些沒關係因為今天速發部 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11589.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11605.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
怎麼都沒有來我不為難你們啦好不好我只是希望你那個講一下我相信吳淡如講的肥貓不是兩位啦至少你們願意來國會接受監督你們不是但是那些不願意來的你可以問他們吳淡如是不是在講他們啦好謝謝謝謝葉恩之委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11620.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11640.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
登記發言委員處不在場者外其餘均已發言完畢 詢答結束委員高津素美 林儲英賴會員所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報書面質詢和未及答覆部分請相關單位於一週內以書面答覆並複製本會本次會議到此結束 現在散會 |