| IVOD_ID |
17030 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17030 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-22-6 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
6 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-13T08:30:43+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-13T12:28:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:57:17 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d9bd2a7f32a503ebbf52eba4cf25e1df4914d0d15f34b2c022ee7008c572f93695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第6次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央研究院院長廖俊智列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
【11月12日及13日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:30:43 - 12:28:00 |
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292.162 |
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詞曲 李宗盛 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1801.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1802.127 |
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今天 |
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1807.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1835.336 |
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本屆的第六次全體委員會議開始那報告委員會我們就今天現在是兩天一次會今天是第二天就繼續開會今天的議程是邀請中央研究院的院長列席報告業務狀況並被質詢首先我們介紹在場委員目前在場委員還沒有到但是出席委員已經出席的人數已經到了那我們就現在來介紹 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1836.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1862.393 |
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與會的官員首先是中央研究院院長廖俊智我是副院長周美儀女士副院長唐糖我是副院長彭信坤我是秘書長陳軍厚 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1867.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1893.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
副秘書長林怡君副執行秘書吳素信諮詢總會的副執行秘書呂妙芬諮詢總會的副執行秘書徐雅茹數學研究所所長李元斌 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1895.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1919.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
物理研究所所長張元翰化學研究所副所長江明錫地球科學研究所所長鍾孫林資訊科學研究所所長廖鴻源統計科學研究所所長楊新舟 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1924.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1950.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
原子與分子科學研究所所長魏金明天文及天文物理研究所副所長王維豪應用科學研究所研究中心主任魏培坤環境變遷研究中心兼永續科學中心主任兼執行秘書陳于高 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1954.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1979.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
資訊科技創新研究中心主任龐愛君植物紀委生物學研究所副所長郭志鴻細胞與個體生物學研究所所長李齊鴻生物化學研究所所長呂同瑞 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1983.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2011.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
分子生物研究所所長陳懷榮生物醫學科學研究所所長陳怡莊農業生物科技研究所主任葉國珍基因體研究中心主任李志浩生物多樣性研究中心主任陳國勤 |
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2016.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2043.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
關鍵議題研究中心主任李超黃台灣人體生物資料庫代表人楊懷毅歷史語言研究所副所長林勝志民族學研究所所長周育惠近代史研究所所長雷祥林 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2046.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2072.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
經濟研究所所長張俊仁歐美研究所副所長黃敏雄中國文哲兒研究所所長黃冠敏台灣史研究所副所長曾品昌社會學研究所所長陳志柔 |
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2076.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2103.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
語言學研究所所長林若旺政治學研究所所長吳崇禮法律學研究所所長李健良人為社會科學研究中心主任張青青數位文化中心召集人陳希遠院本部秘書處處長曾國祥 |
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2107.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2135.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
院本部法治處處長劉炳鑫院本部總務處間南院服務處處長兼代處長張剛維院本部學術及儀器事務處間生醫轉譯研究中心處長兼主任陳建章哇能者多勞堅持還是缺人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2138.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2163.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
院本部國際事務處處長 孟子卿院本部資訊服務處處長 陳玲智院本部制裁計轉處處長 邱文聰院本部主計事主任 羅友聰院本部人事事主任 廖康儒 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2166.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2186.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
院本部政風事主任黃淑琦好 官員就介紹完畢我想今天可能在立法院還可以開一個中研院的各級主管的會議好 我們現在請中研院廖俊智院長進行業務報告報告時間10分鐘請 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2197.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2218.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
趙惠感謝大院邀請中央院來這邊做業務報告我們的業務重點如下首先我們的本院的任務及三大願景為成就全球頂尖研究善盡社會關鍵責任延攬及培育卓越人才在這三大願景之下下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2219.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2245.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
本院继续推动各项前端研究已经成功设计出具备可调偶合位元的进阶版5位元晶片量子晶片目前着手设计与制造10位元量子晶片预计于115年上半年可上线运作此外我们也接牌量子晶片制程研发平台及量子计算测试平台下一张 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2247.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2264.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我们在今年七月第一个礼拜也举办中研学术大会展现本院学术成果及交流视为交流的最高平台我们总共办了17场的专题演讲55场的平行演讲有300多位研究人员参与 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2266.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2278.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我们也同时拨划一个新的人事制度叫人才人事双剑政策延览卓越的研究学者并且设计特殊延长服务就是所谓的二次长聘 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2281.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2297.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我们也设计了精英博士快速入学的试行计划那目前已经注册的有七位博士生我们也同时进行中研学者计划今年的新增计划为五件延续性计划为七件 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2299.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2322.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
在重要研究成果方面 应用科学研究中心与国立台湾大学的团队合作发现氧胀力对早期大脑发育的有很重要的影响物理研究所与德国Hemholtz重离子研究中心及台湾高速电脑中心合作破解微中子量子难题探索宇宙中剧烈天文爆炸的现象 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2323.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2347.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
環變中心跟資訊科學研究所與勞動部及美國哈佛大學公衛研究院合作研究城市建築勞工的熱壓力和生產力損失生物化學研究所與農業農生中心及執委所合作首創雙固碳系統開發出自然界前所未有的合成二碳植物 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2348.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2376.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
生物医学研究所的台湾精准医疗计划TPMI计划与全台湾16个医疗体系33家医院合作成功招募逾50万名参与者成果于今年两篇论文刊登于NATURE上面分子生物研究所发现微型生态SERM2皆是运动神经多样性的新关键 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2378.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2404.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
民主所研究的劉文富研究員出版了一本叫《Feeling Asian America》壓迫與童話之間的種族彈性的專書台灣史研究所莊盛權駐研究員發表《燕瀟下的體物》《戰爭時業甚極跨境求學》中的閱讀生活法律學研究所許嘉欣研究員出版《歷史記憶》的倫理專書並撰寫導論 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2409.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2438.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
在原住民研究方面我們持續推動部落合作與知識應用與嘉義縣鄒族合作第六屆文物返鄉共作展此外在幾個月前我們也協助花蓮縣光復鄉馬太安部落族人搶救珍貴文物我們除了搶救珍貴文物之外我們也協助推動文化資產的復建與重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2441.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2455.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
为了持续推动AI我们成立了AI推动办公室下设AI合作社与AI风险研究小组等编组并且我们也推出研发AI在人文与科学研究创新应用的计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2458.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2476.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
为了培育潜力心血 延揽优质的心锐我们推出了一个TIGPX的计划与国外各大学合作培育国际博士生目前已经有39位国际研究生来本院做研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2477.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2490.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我们也推出人文社会科学精英博士奖学金14年的申请案有216件有21位学生获选可见它的竞争非常激烈 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2493.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2511.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們也拓展國際學術交流強化科研互動我們舉辦第二屆台英雙邊會議並且我們也為了深化台德學術交流也率團今年九月赴德國學術交流與Marx Planck的Director商量 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2512.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2538.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我们也举办出席太平洋邻里协会的年会今年聚焦人文与科技的跨境连结深化多边学术交流我们在前几天启动了台湾桥梁计划邀请了31位诺贝尔奖得主访台这是与和平基金会及国内11所大学系所合作的一个计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2539.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2559.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
此外我们也持续用中研院研究中研院讲座邀请全世界的大师来中研院做演讲此外我们也开启了中研院化学生物学讲座今年邀请了一个很著名的研究者来演讲 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2561.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2577.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我们持续营造多元科普管道,在几个礼拜前我们举办了北部的院区开放活动,在上个礼拜我们也举办了南部院区开放活动,吸引了大批参与者。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2581.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2596.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我们也持续在营造多元科普管道激发科学探索在院级的科普讲座昨天我们的中研讲堂跨线式科普演讲到竹东高中去演讲 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2597.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2622.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
我們也持續發展言之有物的科普平台今年出版了數理科學組的專書並且今年9月獲文化部2025年度第47次中小學生優良課外讀物推介我們報告到此其餘的請各位參閱我們書面報告謝謝好 謝謝院長 請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2631.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2653.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
謝謝廖院長的口頭報告我們現在進行詢答每位出席委員質詢6分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘發言登記截止的時間為上午10時30分如有臨時提案請於上午的10時30分前提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2655.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2683.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
由本會的委員林怡瑾委員質詢結束後就來進行處理那處理提案時若提案委員及連署的委員均不在場原例不予處理好那現在首先請發言登記第一位的林沛翔委員質詢謝謝主席有請廖院長廖院長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2688.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2715.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
廉委員早廉委員長早安本席今天早上拜讀這本業務報告對於中研院在基礎科學在精準醫療跟國際合作上獲得的成就本席表示肯定不過本席在貴院的研究議程上面發現說在與國家在經濟轉型的衝擊核心人才的競逐跟能源安全的韌性三大關鍵領域上面的需求或許有些落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2715.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2734.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那我先從AI跟經濟開始講起尤其是說現在的AI正造成台灣的經濟M型化非科技業面臨就業的衝擊但我們報告中的AI應用案例是道場道教畫像研究跟金融科技所以我就很想問院長說我們中研院已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2734.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2747.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
有一個所謂的AI推動辦公室那到底投入了多少研究資源具體分析AI對於傳統產業服務業跟廣大勞工所造成的結構性失業跟薪資挺支的問題呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2749.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2770.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
首先我們必須強調說中研院做的是比較前端基礎性的研究雖然AI的最重要目的是推廣到百工百業但是我們是做前端要怎麼樣開發新的技術新的software讓這些應用能夠加速進行能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2771.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2800.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
马上接轨国际最先进的大型语言模型所以我们做的是这方面研究同时呢我们也想在大力推广AI在全方面各学科的研究因为要在产业界应用你一定要有坚实的基础那就是本院在AI推动办公室设立各种不同的计划包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2801.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2821.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
生命科學 自然數理科學 甚至人文科學我們都引進AI的應用期待我們在應用方面的研究能夠很快地從應用端擴展到實際的百工百業的應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2823.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2848.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那因為說真的這個AI現在其實有關這個社會M型化嚴格講起來是所謂全球化的結果對不起你的聲音好像不太清楚我說這個所謂的這個產業M型化或經濟結構M型化嚴格講起來是全球化的結果但是AI無疑加速了很多尤其是說我們因為台灣在全世界算是相對來講是先進的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2850.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2874.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以我们的AI需求大增之后我们GDP的增长已经调上5.45%但是产业研究明确报告这个荣景会造成一个两极化的经济当通讯产业飙升到80%的时候非科技产业持续落后所以中研院如果说在这方面可以多加研究开始多加连结的话会对于整个我们国家会有更好更改善的一个荣景 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2874.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2900.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
是 我们非常同意确实AI的发展会对社会造成M型化的一个后果我们希望在发展的过程当中所得到的财富跟利益能够与全民共享这方面我想我们人文组的很多学者在研究这方面包括有社会学的学者包括政治学 经济学的学者应该这方面多少有所琢磨 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2901.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2920.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
你講到人文學 政治學 經濟學學者那我也知道說我們中研院成立了所謂AI風險的研究小組那請問這個小組的任務範疇是不是只有僅次於所謂的De-Fake或假訊息之間那應該是相當廣泛的我們請這個小組的召集員來解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2923.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2933.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
林委員我們這個風險小組基本上是對於全方面AI可能對社會造成的風險做問題的一個檢討所以Deepfake這個都在我們的討論的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2938.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2959.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
因為現在目前AI導致我剛剛提過兩極化社會也就是所謂的社會經濟的不平等還有產業兩極化這是所謂的結構性風險那這個結構性風險目前所有的先進國家都會遇到當中但是在研究議程當中我想請問就是說針對這個我剛剛還是提到的問題分析後者的預算跟人力比佔了多少呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2961.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2990.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
这个部分我们基本上是以议题导向那像这个部分我目前先集中在有关著作权的问题包括这个AI基本法的制定那有关这个比较是生成性的社会性的各种因素的这个分析呢我们会再纳入到考量然后同时呢我们也会邀集在这方面的专家学者以及跟我们院内所有的相关的所中心来共同合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2991.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3013.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
其实我很清楚知道说中原院其实不应该针对假讯息或者做出管理因为不管如何说不管AI基本法还是打仗能够顺利的成功的话那相对来讲我们还是对于假讯息因为AI的功效越来越强老实讲那句话叫做道高一尺魔高一丈但是我就很 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3015.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3029.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我就很擔心一件事就是說如果我們本身投入的資源跟人才是不夠的那對於這個我們想要達到的目標可能就有一定程度的落差那這一點我想說這邊請中研院針對AI這方面來講我們的方向似乎 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3030.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3055.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
沒有錯 跟所有大型語言去做連結把百工百業變得更能夠suitable for AI這是好事但是我們也必須了解到說台灣的人基本上80%的經濟來源或經濟成長是在20%甚至更少的人上面這其實會造成一個極端不平衡的風險那另外一個趁還有一點時間我想請問一下有關人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3056.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3072.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我們從今年開始面臨所謂嚴峻的人才的斷層學術界人才正被台積電NVIDIA跟一些高新的AI產業大量的吸納報告中有把延攬卓越人才立為核心的願景這點我是認同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3072.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3099.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
可是我們國家人才真正斷層的危機是在30歲到50歲的中生代跟新生代的博士這些都被產業以數倍的薪資在挖走所以我想請問院長我們的人才雙建政策為何是把資源放在60到63歲的資深研究員做二次長聘到70歲而不是把同樣的資源拿來提升40歲中生代研究員的薪資去跟產業做正面競逐呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3100.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3118.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
事实上这是整个风气的改变我们事实上并没有投入资源在60到63岁只是提早督促他们做长期的规划那一般人到60岁左右就开始踩刹车那我们现在是形塑一个新的风气 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3118.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3140.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
让年轻人知道说你40岁开始就要准备60岁你怎么样提出二次长聘不是到了50岁你就开始踩刹车好那有关精英模式生计划这每个月提供最高五万块的补助这没有不好但是我个人认为是不够的因为老师说我们会加买希望这个大院能够大力支持我们的计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3141.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3171.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我想请问一下这些金额如何吸引顶尖工程师来做实施竞争力呢因为这点来讲一个月五万对一般人来讲是多很多的可是对这些AI的精英来讲对这些科技精英来讲严格讲起来没有不好但是远远不够这个五万是每一个学科一样的不同的学科还有不同的方式特别是AI资讯科学方面有不同的方式可以再往上加 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3172.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3192.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
因為我想問說這個計畫到目前為止有多少比例是來自於面臨到最高新誘惑的AI資訊或半導體領域呢在這個計畫裡面這個我沒有詳細資料報告委員如果是人文社會經營講的話那目前其實是以人文跟社會領域的研究者為則您說的是AI的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3193.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3217.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
其实我们现在在尤其是在印科中心他们有一个博士班的培育计划这个是专门针对这些特殊领域国家新兴领域大概比例大概多少人因为这些搞不好就是未来搞不好台湾能够再度突破的种子魏主任要不要补充一下你们的基因培育计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3219.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3244.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我們的培育計畫是跟各個大學合作共同來培育共同出資然後共同來培育學生然後目前我們一開始有20個人那這個少死化的原因現在大概在10個人左右我想請問一下20個人的薪資是大概多少你們給他多少補助20個人薪資的話大概在4萬5到5萬還是那句話我知道我時間到了但是我還是那句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3247.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3272.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我們的所有薪資都是照政府的制度我們需要編列預算所以很感謝委員的督促我們也希望大院能夠在今年的會期當中全力支持我們的經費那我們才能夠持續提升我非常認同委員的講法我們目前的薪資水準雖然才兩年前才開始才提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3272.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3297.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
但是仍然是不够我们需要持续的往上走我希望我们中研院Academic Sinica是全世界有名的研究机构那我也希望说我们这个全世界有名的能够机构能够有一流的薪水才会有一流的人才那有一流的人才才会有一流的产出那我期待中研院这上面对于整个资源未来可以做微幅度的调整谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3301.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3318.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
好謝謝林佩翔委員請行政官員回座現在請萬美林柯智恩委員質詢謝謝莊委我們請廖院長請廖院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3321.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3333.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
各位院長院長早我想在沒有業務諮詢之前我先想請問一下你在明年6月就要卸任目前新任院長的這個領選的目前的程序是走到什麼地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3334.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3358.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
我想这个新任院长临选由临选小组独立运作我们不会参与也不会知道临选小组的没关系好了我现在只想请你可以请临选小组的人过来因为呢据我们理解是7月1号到9月30号要推荐人选然后呢这临选小组的副召集人陈建仁院士呢他在不久就在这个9月中旬的时候他就请辞 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3359.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3379.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個所謂的副召集人這樣的一個角色據說他是被推薦為候選人有這麼一回事嗎請林先生小組回答這個我沒辦法待會回答這麼獨立喔好委員好我是沒關係我時間有限請告訴我是不是陳建仁院士他在九月中旬的時候突然請辭了這個副召集人這樣的一個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3382.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3406.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
然后据说他是被推荐为候选人因为你们在12月的时候呢必须要有四位候选人然后呈报给总统府这个问题在什么地方这个问题是大家虽然你们不能够透露不过已经有很多的讯息呈现出来这个问题里面其实院长你们要注意一下这就是一个观感的问题因为呢李远哲院士在致辞的时候呢他说 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3407.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3428.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
他在八月的时候曾经举办这样子一个所谓的座谈会因为呢他告诉我们同仁没有办法直接跟候选人交换意见所以呢我们要举办八月举办这两场的座谈会里面呢就是要让同仁提供意见未来呢可以让我们这个给这个中研院的期许然后呢在访谈当中请这些候选人来做一个回应那这个就变成 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3429.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3445.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
我本來是一個裁判突然之間呢我要變成球員我說以成見人負召集人這樣的一個角色這樣對其他人來說是非常不公平的因為呢他就提前知道的這樣所謂的面試的題目你叫其他三位候選人情何以堪 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3446.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3460.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
如果这是一个事实的话报告委员这个是不用担心的因为就是陈任士他是不是委员我们当然不能是不是candidate我们也不能告诉您但是不论如何这个所有的问题都是在之后决定的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3461.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3486.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
你就用这句话我告诉我就请大家为什么认为这是个没有办法拒绝的因为院士他当然是德高望重学术经验非常的多这是一个程序问题如果你今天告诉我十二院里面有一位就是我们陈建仁副召集人他在八月的时候呢曾经看过所有的同仁也了解的同仁对于中研院的期许他比其他的三位候选人更具有这样的竞争力这是我特别提到 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3486.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3513.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
所以你在内归当中我个人认为说如果他今天是在7月刚征询的时候呢他马上就会有可能的话他就应该辞去副招型的角色而不是在9月底一切底定的时候他突然在两个礼拜之前提出这对其他的候选人是不公平的但是呢我大概可以很清楚的了解因为目前已经有太多的讯息出来你现在不能透露但是我再提出这个这是一个比赛规则公平问题的问题好吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3514.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3528.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我可不可以很快的回答您可以简单的说就是在就是到目前为止所有的讯息都是公开的所以所有的候选人都知道的事情是一样的以上你一个候选人 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3529.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3555.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
如果他是候选人他就已经提前在8月之后有两次的时间跟你们同仁见面彼此交换意见其他的候选人却没有这样的机会你怎么可能告诉我这个是公开的好这个问题我只提供你做参考我只告诉你如果说有这样的机会未来你可能要定一个条规就告诉你有可能的人你就不应该当做临选委员的任何一个人要么你在7月的时候就开始辞去角色而不是在9月底之前两个礼拜才辞去 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3555.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3571.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
这对很多的候选人来说是不公平的我只是提出这个部分它没有违法但是是影响到你的公平影响到社会观感好 院长来 我们现在继续有关于全球人才的这个问题那我想说你们因为我们美国最近因为一些人才的 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3573.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3598.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
一些种种的因素所以全世界都在抢人才那中研院很好马上就提出了精英博士生快速入学的试行计划没错吧那时候我特别提出来你告诉我因为时间不够的关系所以说呢申请不如预期因为呢大概只有21个人申请录取呢也只有一半超出预期不是不如预期超出预期上次的里面精英博士快速计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3599.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3618.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
是的,我们本来因为时间很短,我们预期大概超过五个左右,结果来了二十几个申请。对,二十一个,录取人数一半嘛,十一个嘛,对不对?然后接下来你们又是完全不到两个月时间你就开放第二波的申请吧,到目前为止情况如何? |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3619.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3634.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
好像 來沒有好 我時間的關係非常有限因為時間已經太晚了那時候大部分的學生都已經拿到入學許可所以第二批就沒有人申請是的所以說你們沒有任何時間的限制所以到目前為止沒有人申請對不對這是一個問題第二波 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3637.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3665.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
第一波有人申请第一波我就说21个人嘛录取一半11个人嘛那第二波你们没有时间的限制目前为止申请人数是零嘛这个讯息没有错这不是申请时间这不是毕业季节啊当然啊那你们干嘛是在这个部分那我们现在只是要承接后面有关于人才的这个部分到底是如何然后接下来你们有我们会推出新的计划蛤我们会推出新的计划除了夏宇博士生之外我们也推出一个5加5的计划叫做卓越人才计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3666.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3685.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我知道你對人才非常的求財若渴但是用數據來告訴我們中研院還是要面對很多我們帶解決的問題你們也特別提到的國際研究生學程TIGP的計劃對不對那錄取的話非常多人來申請但是目前來說大概只分別申請到 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3686.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3706.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
錄取率大概只有6%或5%嘛表示說非常嚴格嘛對不對對然後呢那個時候你們告訴我就說其實呢很多時候是因為教育部有一個總額管制的這個問題嘛是報告員是的然後問題是你們每一次教育部給的這些金額是240個人喔但是你們錄取的部分是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3707.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3723.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
所以這不是教育部的問題是委員這個240人是上限但是因為我每年要編列經費去所以是經費的問題是不是是就是這個經費需要逐年減好所以不是總額管制的問題因為上次我有問過你們告訴我可能是總額管制總額管制還給你240人你140人所以這是經費的問題嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3725.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3742.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
是 就是每年要編列經費來因應所以說呢就是沒有辦法達到這樣240人的話並不是因為你們沒有並不是中研院找不到適合的人而是因為也不是總額管制的問題而是來自於經費不足所以你們才沒有辦法有這麼多人不安全是是 還有怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3743.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3761.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
当然这个申请人的quality也是一个考量假如真的好我们会想尽办法会引进来所以可能就是没有找到中原院要的人对所以你们才是林轩误烂所以我们要把这些问题全部一一来做澄清然后在这些过程当中我们也很希望因为我刚刚说的 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3762.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3786.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
太多人目前为止因为美国有一些的管制所以全世界都在抢人所以我们就来看一下那这些之后呢到底有多少人继续留在台湾我们往下看当然我完全同意人才是完全是流通的人才绝对是流通为世界各国所需要这是我们共同的一个标准但是呢我们还是要知道很多的人毕业之后呢留在台湾的比率是四成跟五成你们满意这个结果吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3787.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3800.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
報告委員 這個當然還可以再努力但是要跟委員解釋是說有很多我們培育的人才他回到母國去現在都擔任母國重要的職位那這個對於跟台灣的學術交流或者是甚至國際競爭來講是非常有幫助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3802.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3821.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
是 所以我才说人才的流通是世界共同的标准这是一项的原则就像我们在美国受了教育但是呢我们也会回台湾来贡献我们自己这是一致的但是呢我刚刚指出很多的一个例子当中不管是符合中研院要的人或是是我们流才的比率我觉得这个部分面对数字我们还是有很多的空间 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3822.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3835.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
主席再給我一分鐘我還要問一個非常重要的國家生計園區的問題為什麼因為我們政府花了200多億107年成立我記得那時候是蔡英文總統為了要成立非常多的所謂的生計國家隊特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3837.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3859.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
排除万难那时候有非常多的人包括立委包括居民等等之类好不容易成立了花了这么多钱然后呢中研院也是负责组织的一个单位但是呢我还是要提出来院长你知不知道整个园区的营运绩效到底是如何中研院掌管的四个其他都是卫福部跟经济部嘛你知道整个的营区的营运状况如何吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3860.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3881.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我認為是非常好各部會譬如說國科會的動物模式中心衛福部的食藥中心經濟部的生技中心但是院長你知道嗎立法委員要跟他們要所有的關鍵性的績效指標要不到只有你們中研院的這個生醫轉移研究中心底下的創服育成中心給我知道其他我都要不到任何資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3882.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3902.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
因為委員要的可能是新創的部分我沒有啊我只要大家裡面因為我們大家都特別提到整個園區沒有一個組政的一個機構然後大家都各做各的預算也都是各自編綠完全沒有一個這樣的部分因為我們不是科學園區你對這樣的成效績效你滿意嗎 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3904.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3931.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我们对我们自己的绩效满意是 但是它是一个联合会下面的一个部分你们负责占的部分其他的部分里面有一个我们希望当初能够成立跨机关的营运协调组所以希望能够资讯共享希望能够来盘点整个的绩效这是整体的一个部分目前为止是各部管各部的是 我或许要请教委员跟委员厘清的是委员想要了解是哪一部分的绩效可能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3932.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3954.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
你们是一个好那就给我个联合会里面里面联合会包含这么多的部分你国家生计的部分里面光是开会过去呢没有成立之前一年开四次会现在成立完之后呢从之前到现在只开了四场会然后呢我要个绩效要不到然后你是联合会里面的吗到底各自如何包括你中研院四个机构当中你就给我一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3955.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3973.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
就是我刚刚所提到的啊所以说呢每个部分里面这也是会得到一个部分所以到底他整个蔡总统那时候要了这么多目前为止各司其事我完全看不出一个生计园区整体里面所带给我们一个所谓的生计国家队所展现出来的一个规模啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3974.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3994.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我們有報告給委員這個規模我想我們的績效是相當可觀目前的50家廠商都進駐院長你跟我的認知完全不一樣我告訴你我現在所拿到的績效就只有你們生物科研究部份給我拿到的這是一個事實我沒有辦法替其他部會說我只能接受中研院講那你中研院四個機構你也只有給我一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3995.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4010.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
那為什麼有四個機構呢四個下面的部分我現在目前拿到的也不過就是一個生醫轉譯研究中心底下的創服育成中心給我資料其他這個中心並沒有給我其他的是我們的研究的部分所以不能給績效嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4011.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4031.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
研究部分績效不是用這個或許我們誤解委員要的意思我們以為委員要的意思是這個轉譯是這個記轉的績效我們以為是這個那其他是研究的績效那我們這個不是不能給只是我們沒有誤會委員的意思然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4032.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4057.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
整個的園區當中所以你告訴我國科會衛生福利部跟經濟部對不起我要不到任何的資料所以這個部分我只是認為一個部分由你們來做一個主軸應該有一個通盤性的大家能夠跨部會一如當初所設立這個生技園區裡面當中的一個主軸所以總要有一個主要的一個單位可以負責統籌跨部會目前為止所看到的就是各司其事這點院長你不能否認吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4058.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4075.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我們確實是需要加強這個聯合會的功能但是在首先的功能之外要釐清說這個各部會或是大家進駐的目標是什麼因為現在這個各失其職因為大家目標各異 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4076.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4099.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
所以并不是说就是我刚刚所强调的你就是各部分的目标可以然后你有一个联合会有一个联合会就是希望能够统合跨领域跨市域的这样的部分没有达到这个目标完全不是因为统合的目的是营运所以营运的时候譬如说是院区环境的维护生态的保养那部分譬如说国动中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4101.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4122.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
院長我們扯太多了我只是告訴你200多億的國家生技園區大家所賦予非常期望的生技團隊到目前為止很顯然我們對話當中並沒有得到我們當初所預期的能夠有透過跨部會大家整合的方法透過聯合會的方法大家能夠共同把這個生技團隊能夠做大 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4123.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4148.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
目前為止就是各司其事以至於本席要的資料來說的話除了中研院其中一個部分給我資料之外其他的部會我都要不到所以我很希望能夠跟一個單位要他就可以幫我把這些你們過去如何把國家生計園區裡面這個當初的目標的部分能夠告訴我目前的績效到底是如何我達不到這樣的目標所以我今天站在這個地方質詢你是這個目的我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4150.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4176.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
這個以後可能請委員向聯合會要不是向中研院要這樣聯合會就有這個名義聯合會就是目前為止沒有一個主軸所以我才在這個地方這個是放在你們中研院當初開始的時候就是這樣就是聯合會沒有一個主軸的單位嘛那這個部分我要去跟誰問啊那中研院當初是你們國家生技園區不是由中研院來主軸來做一個營運的這個最大的主要代表嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4177.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4200.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
联合会是中委院现在是有三席是选出的主席那可能是我们误会这个委员的意思我们把它解释成委员只是对创服议程这一块那假如是委员针对其他的比如说卫福部主管的业务国会主管的业务我们也会去协调拿到委员想要的资料 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4201.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4210.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
这就是当初国家生计园区整个组织的概念里面最重要的当然你们要是要做这样的一个处理我们可能是没有了解委员的意思谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4213.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4241.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
謝謝柯師恩委員質詢那就請中研院針對這個聯合會這部分的這個資訊那因為可能是跨到很多的部會這部分那就麻煩你就你的職份的部分跟聯合會這邊呈現目前委員所提供的這些問題然後在就你的部分把它反映出來好不好那該呈現就呈現出來好那就問題到此為止院長請回座那現在請萬美玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4248.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4266.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
院長可以了嗎好 謝謝謝謝抓委我們有請廖院長有請廖院長王委員早好 院長早院長明年六月你任期就要屆滿了是的在中原院多久了九年又八年將近十年會不會依依不捨 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4269.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4285.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
現在還沒到那個時候還沒到那個時候OK 好但是我想延續剛才這個我們即將也要開啟零選這件事那在您手上這十年其實本席認為您做得不錯那做得不錯所以要交出去難免 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4286.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4314.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
要有一點依依不捨也要有一點擔心怎麼樣去維繫我們過去在這十年當中經營的一個成果那當然剛剛有提到說對於我們現在相關的遴選辦法是有一個遴選委員會要在六個月內向評議會提出四名候選人再從評議會裡面再選出四個候選人裡面再選出三個候選人再由總統任命其中一位那剛剛您說請你完全都不知情完全都沒有這個涉入是嗎是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4315.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4330.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
就是這麼獨立是的 我不應該涉入也是法規設計就是要排除現任你連關心都沒有關心我沒辦法關心OK 好 很好那我想我就請教一下這個是遴選委員會的發言人來 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4334.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4362.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我想請教一下就是剛剛有提到就是對於這個將來領選因為現在已經傳出來說這個陳建仁前總統也是你們副召集人恐怕就是候選人之一這個消息屬實還是謠傳我們很想告訴您但是依法不能告訴您說是或不是我們都不能講所以其實是知道的只是不能講這個在目前是不能公告的是現在不能公告但是可能就是有他只是現在不能講 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4365.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4389.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
不论是或不是我们都不能回答这个问题很抱歉委员我了解其实你这样就已经有回答了谢谢你但是呢我觉得我今天有两个点因为我对于陈建仁这个前副总统我觉得他不管在这个卫生医疗或者过去在中研院的这个经历其实本席都蛮肯定的那对于这个中研院因为过去的经历我相信如果是他 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4390.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4415.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那可能他也非常的熟忍对于管理各方面但是本席看到一个资料我想还是就是院长看一下好像我觉得我们在后三任这个院长我们有年轻化的一个想法跟计划可能是因为你看从李远哲 翁启慧到廖军之院长大概都是五十来岁就接任了所以我们是不是原本也有这个年轻化的打算这个在院长 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4419.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4446.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我想這個我們並沒有對院長的年齡做任何規劃OK 我了解就是說年齡它並不是一個什麼樣的要件只是我看到過去這個院長年齡似乎有年輕化了那當然我們也會在想說因為這個副總統他前副總統因為他現在75歲如果接任任期結束應該差不多就80那對於年輕化這件事情會不會有一些跟我們的本來的想法或規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4447.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4467.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那這個有一些比較矛盾的地方喔這個你們自己去想一想喔那但是呢有一點我想我提醒一下喔我想就不要換了就是剛剛提到說公開的資訊都一定是公平的喔但我跟你講本席以及大家最擔心的就是不公開的資訊造成不公平這一點我想希望務必要去注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4468.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4491.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
接下來我們來談到這個院長賴清德總統在11月11號頒發了總統科學獎的時候他也宣布要啟動333計畫就是希望在未來的30年內讓台灣在物理化學醫學三大領域當中至少增加三個新增三個諾貝爾得主這個您知道吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4492.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4516.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
是的好那我記得其實今年的四月份的時候我其實針對這個國科會的吳承文主委他當時批評說台灣的這個學界沒有諾貝爾獎得主真是丟臉當時我有用這個質詢您的看法那院長您可能忘了怎麼回答我想我把原話讓你知道一下您說客觀條件確實是很困難的要有很好的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4517.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4542.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
去吸引人才包括薪水包括给他们机会最重要的是全民要善待这个研究人员并且不要受政治干预要鼓励他们要有企图心这些都您说的嘛对不对好那过了半年赖总统现在马上宣布说30年内要增加三名台湾诺贝尔奖的得主院长我们现在在您口中所的这些客观的条件目前有变好吗这个目标你觉得可以达成吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4543.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4563.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
还要非常努力我想要达成这个目标至少要做到四件事情第一我们要长期稳定的基础科学的经费的投入很好第二个要鼓励尝试不论是制度做法要鼓励做不同的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4564.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4590.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
第三个要容许失败我们不可能说每一件事情都做成功的可以可以第四个第四个要减少外界的干扰很好让这些研究员能够专心做研究好我觉得这四个都很棒我本心认同但我们再来看一看您一定有听到清大原子科学院的院长这个叶忠光教授是不是他说了一个说 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4592.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4607.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
他认为这个说法是极度浩高物远的说法为什么因为执政党研发经费都投到半导体的产业导致基础科学研究偏废基础科学哪一些呢正是现在我们关切的物理化学医学这些东西 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4607.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4637.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
是基础科学也是像您刚刚所说的这个做法如果没有改变我们没有投入刚刚您所说的四点当中其中一个的经费下来我想要培养不是您说的非常困难我觉得他说的好高骛远这件事情我反而更赞同所以我想院长针对您刚刚所说的这四点事实上您既然知道这四点是重要的我觉得恐怕不管是在给相关单位行政院总统的建言上面我想您这个临别也要把好的建议留下来可以做到吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4639.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4654.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我尽量尽量吗是的你要尽全力啊不能尽量啊尽全力还是不好讲就你心里知道这样但又不好讲这个建议不好讲尽所有的量可以可以这样是可以的那所以我想啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4655.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4669.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
我們都希望從我們李遠哲教授在1986年獲得諾貝爾這個化學獎之後已經差不多要40年了台灣一直都沒有這樣的好消息傳出反觀日本我們看到日本真的是旅船捷豹 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4670.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4696.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
就是說他們在這方面投入不管是各方面的環境資源經費恐怕要比台灣來得多所以有時候該借鏡也要去借鏡這個提供給您一下那最後一個議題上週不知道你有沒有注意到有一場全球視野下的中國抗戰國際學術研討會在北京大學舉行這個你有注意到嗎好像報上看過這樣子的消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4697.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4700.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
也是要注意一下吧還是現在對岸的事情通通不敢注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4702.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4727.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
當然會注意會注意嗎對所以這件事知道嗎好所以與會的演員當中包含了一位中研院的前研究員名字我如果沒有弄錯他叫呂方尚對不對然後呢這個研究員在受訪的時候強調政治不應干涉學術研究唯有兩岸學者持續交流才能真正理解彼此還原歷史真相院長同意這樣的說法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4728.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4751.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
這是大致上是同意的但是政治干預來自各方向所以我們是絕對贊成無條件的學術自由所以這方向我們是贊成的很贊成 OK 好那但是行政院現在規定在明年的7月1號開始中研院的研究員副研究員 助理研究員和助理等等幾乎是全部了如果要複入 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4752.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4780.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
必须向内政部申请然后得到许可以后才可以去那我们刚才在讨论诺贝尔这个奖的时候院长有说也不希望政治干预这个研究所以在这件事情上面会不会认为这项附录许可制是违反学术自由这样的规范你觉得合理吗那看是怎么合准法假如是合准报备只要学术据我了解只要是学术性的都不会有问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4782.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4795.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以办法你还没有看到还没有看到所以你也不知道它会怎么规范或限制是的 据我了解这个许可会是这个申请当然你们申请这个许可谁来许可许可条件又是什么 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4796.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4815.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
你知道吗我没有很清楚所以我们在意的是学术性的只要学术性据我了解当然所以院长您在意的是学术性而且是要完全全学术性政治不要来干预所以我也提醒您您可能要去了解一下说我们会去申请但是它怎么许可 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4815.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4832.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
办法是什么有哪些限制恐怕你现在都应该要去了解为什么你看我翻开中研院115年的预算你们也编了预算要派员赴大陆这个计划的项目多达76项预算的时候我们可以来讨论所以可见你觉得有相当的必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4833.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4863.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
但这76项如果现在我们已经都把计划跟预算都送到委员会要来审查了那结果我们不知道到底我们自己在审核跟申请的时候许可的标准是什么我觉得也会干扰到你的计划所以这个必须要去了解所以我想院长我想干扰是两方面都有所以我想大家知道说这个大陆的现在的状况对所以很多时候我们是面临不同的所以有可能你 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4863.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4881.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
那我再問一個所以你現在說兩方面都有干擾所以說兩方面都有干擾學術就對岸也有干擾學術的交流那我想很早以前因為你剛剛說兩方面都有干擾是 很早以前這個大陸的學者來台灣就需要簽署很多的多早以前 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4881.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4910.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
至少十年了吧对 现在在讲的就是这个交流啊你现在提出来说你们要去交流嘛那我们在讲的是说内政部啊现在说变你要申请要许可可不是你有计划就可以去了嘛那后来你说现在两岸都有干扰所以就是说我们提这个计划其实对方也不见得会让你去是这样子吗详细我不了解我没有数字你刚刚这样讲但是那确实也有可能啊确实是有可能确实有可能那你编那个你编那个计划编这个预算在编辛酸的哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4911.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4919.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
我們不可能說得到許可在那邊預算不是那沒有預算也沒辦法申請院長 這預算是要跟你好好討論你現在說我要去對岸交流那你要去交流結果我們這邊說要嚴格審查第一個 你這邊可能要知道一下它是怎麼審查 怎麼許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4931.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4954.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
但你今天竟然爆出來說對岸其實也是干擾的那我不懂耶就我們這邊其實也要審查許可還有一些限制對岸也要干擾你那你為什麼 你要去交流什麼你這76項計畫你還要去交流什麼委員不好意思我們人事事主任這邊跟委員說明一下就是有關於不用 不用 不用因為時間已經超過院長你說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4955.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4968.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
我們是希望這是純學術的當然我們不可能說是一切都辦妥再來申請計畫那又是幾年之後那你是怎麼知道對岸線有干擾的 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4969.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4997.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
你什么时候知道对岸有干扰有干扰是委员讲的干扰是委员讲的哦不是咯我们把它放出来看看好不好我没有讲到干扰我说现在呢你们编了这样的计划编了这样的预算要去交流但是呢我们现在有一个附路许可制要经过内政部那要许可我要您去了解这个许可的办法可能会是什么那这个许可办法会不会造成你的困扰 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4997.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5022.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那後來是你跟我說干擾是兩岸都有嘛是不是那我剛剛講的意思是說你知道嗎當我們計畫都出來了可是呢萬一這76項這個內政部都有意見行政院都有意見那會不會對於我們在做計畫其實是一種干擾我講的是這樣就你說兩岸都會干擾那我不理解對岸怎麼干擾你們院長請您回答一下院長請您回答一下我沒有請您發言對不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5024.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5053.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
我想這個很多我們想要的這個學術的活動在兩方面都會被要求做一些我們譬如說在我們在發表論文的時候常常就被要求沒有 我們在講交流我們現在在講人的交流交流最終是要發表論文交流不是觀光不是 院長我跟你講我想我這邊不要再耽擱這個主席的時間但我必須要跟您提如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5054.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5079.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
按照您今天所說的對於我們中研院要跟對岸去對岸做交流這件事情是有受到干擾的事實上我們在審查預算的時候可能會成為我們所有委員在看這個筆預算可不可以給中研院一個非常大的一個指標最簡單的這個說法就是我們是不是可以以中央研究院的名義出訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5080.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5109.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那假如不行的話我不曉得這次委員認為是干擾還是不是干擾假如我們不能以我們正確的機構名稱跟國家名稱發表論文的話我不曉得委員認為這是干擾還是不是干擾很好啊我覺得您講得非常好啊我還是非常贊同您啊所以其實我們到了預算的時候我們就來看你這每一項計畫有沒有可能按照您之前所說的順利出發那如果不行那預算其實就到時候不要又說藍白山預算了是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5110.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5126.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
你同意嗎不同意也不同意因為你假如沒有這個預算就完全沒辦法計算沒辦法開啟我跟你講哪有這種說法啦如果你自己現在都沒有一點把握你現在是一點你至少計劃出來你都要有個三五分的把握 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5126.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5141.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
知道這是可能可執行的如果你認為這個都是不可執行的都有這樣的問題都有這樣的干擾那你把這個預算編出來什麼意思呢對不對所以院長我必須要跟您講啦我覺得不必在現在的這個時間點你再來做這樣的一個爭執沒有意義喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5144.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5163.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
您自己剛剛所說的您剛才所說的這四點您剛剛所說的四點包括您自己本身以及帶領的整個中研院學術就是要在學術學術要非常的獨立學術非常的自由發展不要去受政治的干預您要永遠把話講出來以後記在心中可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5165.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5180.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
我一向是如此希望后面还要保持也是这样委员刚才提的三到五分的把握我们也会记在心中我们确实有三到五分的把握院长我们对中研院一向都非常的支持整个教育文化委员会都非常的支持我们非常感谢但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5181.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5199.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
针对刚才我本席所提出来的质询提醒你们可能遇到的困难或者是会打击到大家这么辛苦提出来计划那不管是什么样的困扰你都应该要去注意到去排除掉这是应该做的吧是我希望说到也要做到这样好不好谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5200.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5228.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
好 謝謝汪美玲委員質詢大家可以看到政治的干擾真的是兩岸這部分在質詢當中變得反而是一個很重要的議題那預算應該是還是會先編但是實際上面就看當時的政治跟政院立院的關係才決定好 那院長就請回座我希望等一下的委員就在時間把握上面就更的精準就這樣子現在請吳麗華委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5237.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5239.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
謝謝主席再次有請廖院長請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5247.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5270.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
委員長好這一次馬太安煙色湖一流的事件造成光復很大的災情但是我們看到中研院有作為在今天的夜報也有特別提到本院協助花蓮縣光復鄉阿美族馬太安部落族人搶救珍貴文物 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5271.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5301.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那在這裡我們也看到這一次你們有針對這些不同材質的文物像水損的 受潮的提供了一個緊急處置原則所以我第一個部分當然是肯定中央研究院雖然作為最高研究機構但是這一次也就自己的專業能夠出來救災非常的肯定可是我進一步想要請教中研院院長您代表回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5301.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5324.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
就是有了这一次的经验我们可不可以就是不要抢救未来能不能够建立更多相关的机制来因应更多的文物保存安置那如果需要编列相关经费来建立相关的计划我想我们都很乐意来支持有没有这样的一个想法这吴委员这个建议非常好我们请民主主席我看是不是可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5327.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5351.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
委員好我是民主組所長周玉慧謝謝您的支持說實在的我們這一次能夠在這個馬太安裡面其實是受到我們院方很大很大的協助然後我們能夠進去主要也是因為族人相信因為族人願意我們進去裡面協助那我們進去裡面之後當然大家就是非常的怎麼講就是滿面創意 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5352.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5369.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那我们能够做的呢就是因为人力也是非常的有限那我们做的呢就是在我们的专业的范围里面呢同时我们去未来会不会继续做这样的项目我们应该就是说我们应该是要跟大家一起联合包括比如说那个我们的那个 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5370.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5397.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
沒關係 因為我時間有限我只是想知道說有了這次的經驗你們會不會著手建立一些相關的計畫或者是要編列預算都可以有沒有這樣的規劃目前我們會好好的慎重考慮這件事情OK 謝謝那院長另外其實前陣子很多人關注就是2025年6月有一個海峽論壇 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5399.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5424.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
因為我們看到我們的院士也有受邀所以大家都在看我想這個顯然就是一個統戰的手段為什麼呢因為在福建的平潭有一個河丘頭移植博物館它本來是屬於地方型的博物館但是它在4月的時候升級為國家級的中國考古博物館河丘頭分館 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5425.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5448.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
而且他那邊放了一顆石頭上面刻寫南島語族考古教學的實習基地結果六月份的時候海峽論壇登場我們的院士也有受邀我覺得我先這樣子說好了我覺得大家到那個地方應該都會很謹慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5450.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5465.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那我就特别看到我们的李仁鬼老师呢他回来的时候有投稿他的标题他自己写的语汇海峡论坛南岛语的权威就是李仁鬼老师统战意味浓厚 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5466.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5491.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
不過他很有智慧因為我們認真看了一下他所提供的其實他在論壇的時候他講了五點第一兩岸要有正常的交流對大家都有好處第二自古以來中華是一個民族的大熔爐第三漢族的語言文化深深影響了東亞和東南亞各語族四漢族的語言文化也吸收了少數民族的語言文化成分五 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5492.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5498.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
境內各種語族都是由北向南擴散和遷移他說我的總結頗受歡迎因為對方也覺得聽到他們想聽的話就避重就輕但是他回台灣的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5507.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5508.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
院長 你給李仁軌院士打幾分啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5534.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5541.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我不是這方面的專家沒有任何方法可以做這個評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5544.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5572.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我是覺得蠻有智慧的啦那其實統戰其實我們看到像中國他們也要成立職棒嘛那像有一支旺旺集團組的長沙旺旺黑皮隊他的官宣內容呢都寫得很清楚就是要回家回家那他官宣也寫著旺旺誕生於台灣生長於中國大陸旺旺作為愛國的台灣企業希望以棒球為載體為兩岸搭起友誼的橋樑嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5573.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5601.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那平时很多地方都会小题大做的黄国昌委员他就说不用那么严肃看待了统战这个问题如果没有严肃看待那就很危险所以呢我觉得其实学术论坛就是论战就像华山论剑一样简单来讲就是用一种很文雅很有素质很有学养的方式吵架争取话语权 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5602.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5631.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
中央研究院就是我們最高的一個學術機構所以我覺得爭取話語權對我們中央研究院的每一位來講都是代表國家都是非常的重要那我在想我在看到我們的這個夜報上面有一個叫做台灣精準醫療計畫為什麼我特別注意這個因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5633.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5658.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
現在要為漢族來做一個健康照護的一個基礎的一個計畫這是很大型的計畫那在上頭呢他也是說都不斷的寫說這個精準醫療計畫的建立不僅展現漢人族群獨特的基因特色與疾病的關聯更標誌台灣在公共健康領域的重要里程碑好 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5659.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5680.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我的意思是說南島語族在台灣我們都說你們的院士也說他是南島語族的擴散地無庸置疑就要有更多的學術的一個論戰那有沒有想要為台灣原住民族做的精準醫療計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5682.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5704.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
当然有这需要这个族人要同意我们不论是做任何研究都是要到受试者要同意所以确实有规划了这个要请那个TPMI的代表也包括不是特针对那个但是包括在所有台湾各族群人都包括在这个计划里面是不是针对某一个族群 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5705.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5731.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那我想先請教一下就是負責這個精準醫療計畫是哪一位哪一個單位有來嗎來那我先問一個簡單的問題目前台灣原住民的平均餘命低於全體國民幾歲這個我不知道沒有 我是說那位負責醫療的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5736.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5758.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
統計所所長楊新洲是有關那個原住民的部分因為TPMI計畫的部分目前並沒有直接去詢問是不是原住民但是我們有可能透過記錄的方式我跟你說泰克風靠近一點差8點多歲這就是為什麼原住民可以55歲開始領老人年金 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5761.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5780.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
好 我要講的是說我希望我們的台灣精準醫療計畫除了做漢人基因我希望也能夠為原住民族來做精準的未來能夠對醫療有幫助那更重要的是我覺得中央研究院作為一個最高的學術機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5782.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5795.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
站穩這個南島起源就像我剛剛講的這個論壇就是要吵架的地方用文雅的方式吵架爭取話語權那這些學術的論證都非常的重要那我覺得當今對我們來講這麼多的統戰的手段 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5799.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5827.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我覺得這個部分是中央研究院應該要努力的方向可以嗎是非常簡短回答委員就是說TPMI計畫目前是有這樣的potential可以去對於原住民或南島我希望我現在開始著手規劃我希望我下次問的時候你們已經有一些眉目了好不好好謝謝OK好院長可以嗎好謝謝好謝謝院長謝謝主席謝謝吳立華委員院長行政官員請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5833.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5856.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
現在請羅廷維委員質詢謝謝主席 有請院長有請院長羅委員長院長好 今年4月10號我有跟院長就教過台灣距離諾貝爾獎有多遙遠 院長還有印象嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5863.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5891.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
有那時候院長答覆需要有更好的土壤更好的環境這個科研環境的創造才能夠創造人才那才能夠讓人才在無憂無慮的環境之下能夠發揮他們的創造力所以希望大家給予支持給予鼓勵跟國際一起來競爭我們要看到的是研究人員所實際的貢獻對社會對學術這樣子的一個方面的貢獻而不是單靠他成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5892.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5905.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
成就有了成名我們才肯跟他說跟他拍拍手啊所以他要得到諾貝爾獎在努力的過程當中我們要給予肯定給予支持給予鼓勵經費上最大的彈性 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5907.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5934.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
所以賴總統剛剛宣誓333諾貝爾計畫目標要在未來的30年讓台灣在物理科學醫學三大領域至少增加三位諾貝爾獎的得主請問院長賴清德總統在宣誓之前有沒有跟你討論過沒有沒有原來他也沒跟你討論我還以為只有衛福部會有這樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5936.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5963.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那我想未来上我还是希望你能够转达台湾学术对我说明一下我知道赖总统一直很关切诺贝尔奖但是没有具体谈到说几年几个这个在宣布前才口头跟我讲这样子但是我知道赖总统一直都很关切没关系我没有说他不关切但是我要 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5964.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5986.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
希望的是他應該要多跟你請益多跟你請教樹葉有專攻啊這個部分您畢竟是比較專長但是為什麼我需要他跟你請教因為我希望你能夠反映的是你應該要跟總統報告台灣學術上面臨的一些困境你要讓他知道困難點在哪 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5987.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6015.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
有目標我們當然不會只是說一昧的唱衰啦但是有目標是好的但是網友也會說30年後他都不知道在哪裡了我也不知道在哪裡了但是這個目標定定以後你要怎麼執行而不是只是喊喊口號所以他必須先了解中研院的困境學術的困境這可以認同嗎非常同意所以我們就像你說的4月10號你講的土壤環境怎麼具體來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6017.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6031.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
你觉得呢如果要你现在回复什么样的困境你要怎么跟他说我刚才已经回复过不过可以再讲一次第一个要有长期稳定的经费资源第二个要鼓励勇于尝试 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6032.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6055.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
什么叫勇于尝试不是说大家做过了写一个计划你照计划进行常常计划中会有改变所以就跟一般我们审查经费审查计划的精神很不一样第三个要容许失败这又更不一样了我们每次这个什么都没做到就会被某个单位来盯那这种状况下大家就不会 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6056.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6072.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
不敢嘗試 我懂嘛最後減少外界的干預我跟你講外界干預不只是政治也是社會 也是經濟所有大家飯還沒煮好就常常掀鍋你看飯會不會熟預算的彈性支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6073.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6090.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
前線作戰背後不要有干擾又要搬屍回巢啊對不對那大膽的假設小心的求證嘛允許錯誤的發生嘛這個東西我們都知道但是我想執政者他有他的為難 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6091.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6118.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
但是你要告诉执政者你要给予最大的这个部分的支持不要说你在前面作战我们历史就有演变出前线的将军后面整个政治的纷乱然后做出了不对的决策要求班师回朝这个部分对于整个实际的研究上都会有很大的很难以呈现所以KPI要如何呈现这个部分我也希望说你要有具体的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6119.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6141.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
讓他們能夠當然你說犯錯或者是包容他要有多少的KPI你要訂定而不是一次犯錯怎麼樣就給你們這個計畫整個都砍掉了胎死腹中這部分上KPI要怎麼樣去做到我覺得這個部分你可以去大膽的去擬定這個KPI讓現在的執政者讓現在的總統他們知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6142.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6159.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我觉得这个部分你可以作为整个实验团队里面我想这个总统关系的大方向这个细节到这部分这恐怕不是细节你来定嘛是的但你要来建议嘛对不对那第二个中研院的经费对分配多根据当前的政策热点 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6161.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6188.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
包括能源量子科技等技術均積極的展現投入不過對於生醫產業的規劃跟資源分配也同樣值得關注尤其在總統府現在的健康台灣委員會提出的生醫產業要成為第二個護國神山政策的一個目標之下中研院的角色就越來越重要所以中研院在生醫方面的一個研究角色資源投入也應該進一步的被檢視針對這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6191.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6203.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
院長有沒有說明一下我們院裡面的經費95%以上都是所謂bottom up就是所有的研究人員自己去發想 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6205.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6233.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那我们院方只是鼓励朝哪方向投入那所有三大学组的经费投入事实上是相当均匀的虽然不是完全一致但是我想生医领域的投入一向是我们院里面的重中之重这个过去几十年来都是如此未来也是如此我想目前可以大概说明一下中医院就生医研发的规划是什么吗投入多少资源 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6235.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6258.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我想这个粗略来讲大概是说资源三分之一因为我们三大学组约是三分之一我想甚至可以说三分之一强就你所知道有没有跨足精准医疗那当然有啊那是我们主要的研究领域之一啊刚才这个我讲的TPMI台湾这个人理生物资料库 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6258.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6286.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
還有各種基礎研究我們的目的都是在做精準醫療跟生醫材料的這些新興領域所以這個部分上我們會持續追蹤也希望說院長能夠大力的支持我們也希望大院能夠大力支持如果有這樣子需要我們的地方當然我們也願意來支持第二個我要跟簡單的就教就是33計畫有一個友善的研究環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6287.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6309.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
要跟院長討論的是可能有另外一個不友善的一個研究環境的事情為延攬更多的優秀人才我們推動了二次長聘鼓勵60歲到63歲戒退研究人員投入長期的一個研究計畫當中可延聘到70歲我肯定中研院留任頂尖人才的一個決心支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6310.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6331.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
但是我也要擔憂啊我一定要擔憂擔憂這個政策帶來世代的一個排擠效應因為根據業務報告裡面截至114年10月底政務院公務預算的底下有研究人員805名博士後研究人員426名請問院長二次延聘有沒有核定名額一次延聘至70歲後請問相關審查的標準為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6333.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6355.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
所谓二次长聘就是我们希望他能够在60岁左右提出如何再创学术高峰我们并没有投入更多的资源而是能够去刺激这些研究人员所有的研究人员能够及早提出二次学术高峰的规划 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6356.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6381.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
是叫他早点规划那你只要规划好我一次给你延聘到70岁否则的话你一年一年来所以资源并没有增加我简单讲我们支持这样子的一个延聘计划但是他希望要有一个审核标准而不是说任何人都轻易的能够打击那当然不是所以我们讲的是二次长聘为什么讲二次长聘跟一次长聘都非一样大家都知道说长聘在中文医院是非常困难的 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6382.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6404.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那這個因為很困難也不是說套個公式你就可以達到這個標準那所有東西都是靠所有的同儕研究員心中一把尺做這個判斷那同樣在二次長聘我們也希望用為什麼會帶到這樣的一個想法就是說最主要是不要壓縮到年輕的學者那倒不會這個我要提醒啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6404.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6424.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
正好是相反我們希望說年輕學者到40歲 50歲就開始有刺激要開始計劃60歲的時候他怎麼樣提出這個二次長聘那院長最後一個議題我在勞動權益上這個進展這個過程我想我是非常關切的那近幾年我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6425.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6453.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
我們面對著勞動權益的一個逐漸提升跟關心我認為中文院在研究卓越之外對於勞動權益的一個法規遵循還是要有所標竿所以在這個部分上我也要再一次的提到因為我來自基層我很關心勞動權益的一個議題去年在審查預算的時候我就特別提出政治所的徵裁有違法的問題違反了就業服務法希望中文院要注意你還記得這個案子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6454.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6479.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
是的那当时我也建议院方应该要全部盘点征才的资讯跟屁用的制度确认是否有违反当时你也回应我人事单位人力有限需要一点时间盘整但是我要问的是说现在我理解上说实际操作有一些压力但是问题已经浮现我希望能够作为你们改善工作的优先事项 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6480.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6504.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
您可以同意嗎是的我想委員是有特殊的案例需要有 當然有昨天我去翻閱中原院的人才招募網發現工作福利寫職缺適用勞動基準法寫週休二日國定假日適用勞基法這算福利這是最低的標準吧怎麼會是額外的福利 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6506.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6508.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
好 第二個承攬勞務的這個人員心之險 免疫 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6513.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6541.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
这样的表述是违反了就业服务法第五条先跟委员说明一下就是经过委员的提醒其实我们人事室的部分我们有定期在所中心的部分告诉他们说基本上你的劳动的相关的条件的部分都比较符合劳动协议法跟就业服务法的相关规定那委员您刚才提到的那一个案子的部分它的确是一个劳务承揽的部分那因为劳务承揽的部分它应该是不适用我们就业服务法里面有关于那个未到4万薪资的部分揭示的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6541.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6568.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
那可能就是就我們網頁上面的部分他可能在勞務承攬部分他沒有說明的非常清楚所以這個部分我們後續會請所中心如果你是屬於勞務承攬性質的話這個部分我們會希望他在所有的相關職務說明部分是說明清楚我希望眾議院以最高學術機關的一個格局跟標準去呈現展現對於勞動法規的一個謹慎態度那也請眾議院重新的檢視所有的公告內容並確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6570.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6588.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
這個屬於服務勞動合乎規定審查的一個機制讓院內跟工作外的整個真真切切都可以成為學術最重要的一個場域所展現出來的一個格局謝謝委員的提醒那這個案子的重點是他不是用勞基法因為他是勞務承攬因為他是那個洗魚缸的就先跟委員澄清說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6589.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6619.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
有没有违法违规是其一有没有观感不佳是其二我还是希望说在这个部分上能够呈现出这样子的一个风格我们有注意到说各所中心对于不是牢记法的它没有明确标示所以我们接下来重点会去宣导说在适用牢记法以及非适用牢记法的成蓝人员我们要做明确标示十秒我要跟你讲就是从之前的政治所所发生的一个议题到我会长期的去关注这些议题让你们知道其实有立法委员很关切这个东西好吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6620.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6621.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
加油謝謝羅廷維委員 行政官員請回座請陳秀寶委員質詢謝主席 請廖院長請廖院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6649.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6674.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
陳委員早院長早院長這幾天媒體有報導在中研院的員工有爆料說中研院在10月6號辦理的這個建築與空間展這個活動呢邀請到吳四耀議員及李彥秀委員那中研院的新聞稿呢卻沒有露出李彥秀委員的照片這質疑我們中研院是立場不中立院長你覺得這是不是有什麼誤會這個我想這個很大的誤會那詳細我們請那個總務處說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6676.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6692.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那请您简短说明是 委员好我们当天气氛非常的融洽那吴世耀委员跟联修委员到场那因为联修委员当天有公务的行程在参加我们第一阶段的演讲全程参与以后他必须要赶其他的公务就先离开 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6692.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6712.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
那剩下是無私藥委員後來我們第二階段現場展覽跟導覽的時候是無私藥委員在參與所以我們在公告的照片的時候活動的照片上面就比較多無私藥委員的照片所以就是因為私藥委員待在現場的時間比較長所以比較有機會就是在參與的過程裡面拍比較多的相片是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6712.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6729.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
當然中研院是我國最高的學術研究單位也一直都謹守學術自由以及學術中立那這個部分我如果有誤會就藉這個機會來澄清我不需要說有任何人隨意的貼標籤將中研院貼上說不中立這個標籤進而影響到中研院的學術的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6731.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6754.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那其實真的這個事情四要委員的回應是說當天他因為全程參與將近三個小時所以說如同剛才你們所解釋的就是說他待的時間是比較長的那其實李燕秀委員她是非常明你的看待這件事情燕秀委員表示說只要對中研院好對南港好對台灣學術地位好她都全力以赴所以她覺得不需要再太多的聯想 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6754.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6779.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
那既然當事人其實對這件事情都很客觀那中研院員工所謂的偏袒所謂的呼籲是有什麼深意嗎我覺得這個部分如果是自己中研院的員工面對這樣的事情自己都沒有用很中立很客觀的事情來看待我覺得這個是會影響到大家對中研院的一些觀感所以這個部分而且我在這邊講一下其實要挑選新聞的這個照片其實蠻難的啦因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6780.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6803.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我們是要先挑選人還是挑選主題還是挑選我們整個的構圖版面那如果說看起來很好的構圖可是人剛好眨眼睛的做怪表情的那這照片能不能用所以這個部分尤其像我們自己在地方跑行程我們經常出現被斷手半臉這種相片我們也有時候也是會跟主辦單位抗議啊但是他說沒有啊那就是我們信長要放在中間啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6804.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6819.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這可能也是沒有用我們理解在這個相片的處理上但是如果說已經有經過這個事件的提醒將來我們在處理的時候是不是要更細緻一些接下來我要請教院長關於AI應用的這個個資使用界限的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6820.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6836.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
本期在去年在質詢的時候有問過中研院是不是能夠辨識AI的科技那當時其實中研院的回應是說是沒有辦法做的沒有辦法做就是說如果有影片出來有時候在我們自己以人眼是沒有辦法這樣子辨識的 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6837.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6853.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那隨著AI越來越發達應用也是越來越廣院長目前我們有什麼新的方式新的科技來辨識AI的科技還是說我們有什麼方式教民眾來辨識就是AI的手段目前有嗎我們請我們這方面專家來回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6858.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6879.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
這個現在因為網路開放然後又深層式AI產生其實這個Deepfake那樣的技術在十幾年前因為我們在處理數位典藏國家型計畫的時候必須修補老影片所以那時候就發展一些一系列東西沒想到在這個現在Deep Learning發展了以後產生這樣的問題那基本上目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6880.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6896.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
如果說我們沒有在深層的這些影像或者是視訊裡面放入浮水印的話其實在後來的深層的時候是不容易辨別它是真偽大概是這樣以現在的技術是還是很難去辨識 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6898.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6919.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
基本上是很難辨識而且現在因為網路開放反而是那種比較大的機構或國家它可以來主導這個網路的世界所以當它要污染整個某一個領域的時候它可以大量的用它的規模來製造一些網路上的東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6920.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6939.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這也是本席今天提出來一個很擔憂的部分來我們先看一下這個左邊這張圖是現在很盛行的這個APP的生成的雪景圖那最近在網路上非常多人使用它真的生成起來的圖片很唯美很浪漫所以很多人使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6939.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6965.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
但是這種透過上傳就使用者上傳影像的方式是不是可能導致APP的開發商導致中國來掌握這些使用者的生物特徵那這個雖然在網路上看起來的圖片非常美因為我自己因為各自的安全我自己不敢用我的相片所以我這隻貓咪是我助理的貓咪就是你看生成起來是真的很好看但是你上傳了你把你的資料都給他了把你的圖片都給他了 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6965.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6984.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那也有網友紛紛發現就是說中國的很多APP它其中的AI功能會經未使用者的同意未經使用者的同意呢擅自使用它的相片來作為廣告用途那中間的這一個就是它之前用過的一個APP之後把它上傳的相片拿來做廣告了 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6985.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
7002.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
甚至也有APP會擅自的開啟手機的相機功能所以民眾也懷疑說日常生活中是不是就早被竊聽那這樣子的AI功能使用界限我們要如何認定中研院你們有沒有針對這些AI使用隱私個資問題來進行研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
7005.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
7029.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
這個部分因為你只要上網的話只要上網的話這些內容就有可能會傳出去因為數位化的關係數位化的東西它可以不會損失的這個當然我們知道我們上傳因為網路這樣子是一個非常非常開放的所以你上去的資料就有可能被各方可能被各種有心的人士去利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
7030 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
7047.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
但是針對這樣子的相關的問題我們還是要對它進行研究跟分析AR的應用是越來越多元啦之前比較剛開始是對話式的AR那現在廣泛應用於各種影音的生成那影音生成的這些內容跟使用者的個資後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
7049.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7075.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
要怎麼樣來規範未經使用者的允許他們做二次使用其他使用都是很重要的課題那我希望說我們中研院這邊除了AI科技的應用之外我們也應該對相關的這些AI跟使用者的權益我們要進行相關的研究我們日後可以有這樣的數據有這樣的資料我們提供給相關的單位這個部分是院長我們這邊可以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7077.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7101.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
來做這樣子的研究呢我們中研院現在資創中心有幾位研究員在研究這個浮水印的部分這個部分在20年前非常紅但是因為最近深層式AI的產生跟網路的發達然後算力的增加所以這件事情現在又被那我想您這樣回答應該就是對這個部分你們也是重視的 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7102.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7118.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我們一直都很重視那對後續相關的就是有這樣子相關的研究跟有報告的話請也送一份資料到我辦公室讓我了解說現在眾議院對這個部分你們到底了解多少掌握了多少好嗎好 謝謝那接下來我想請教院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7119.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7144.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
中研院的業務報告上面有說知識饗宴系列的科普演講在YouTube頻道上累積了180部的影片那平均的觀看次數超過1.9萬次這個部分本席是很肯定中研院的努力但是對這個YouTube頻道的經營我還是要提醒一下我們中研院的這個YouTube頻道從2016年設立到目前有10 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7147.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7160.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
14000的訂閱者院長你覺得你對這個訂閱數量是滿意的嗎你覺得需不需要再提升我想這個當然是越多越好但是我們大概也是鎖定的比較知識性的族群而不是一般這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7162.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7188.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所有的這個音樂性的網紅那樣子除了知識的族群之外我們是希望越來越多人是他願意在這樣的很就是很可以隨時點閱隨時知曉的這個狀態之下去接觸那再來呢除了知識饗宴的以外的影片大部分的觀看次數都沒有超過5000次院長你有思考過可能是什麼原因嗎這個我們請的業務單位回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7191.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7207.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
秘書處處長鄭國祥報告委員我在想其中的原因之一就是因為現在有E-learning所以許多有譬如公務員他有學分需求的這一塊他們可能就會到那些平台去當然我們還有很多改進的空間我們也會持續的改進 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7208.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7234.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
因為其實我們相關的這些影片我會希望說你們不要局限自己自己先設限說我們是希望推廣給比較知識性的這個族群那我也希望說你們可以去參考這個知識饗宴觀看次數比較高的原因是因為它比較淺顯易懂還是它的內容比較吸引民眾比較生動那希望說我們未來在推廣科普的時候可以定定就是我們自己定一個目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7234.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7242.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
YouTube的這個訂閱跟觀看次數有提高的這個目標讓我們相關的講座相關的活動有更多人可以參與可以觀看可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7244.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7264.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們請亮好 那我再佔用一點時間今年度我們重要的國際學術交流活動台灣橋樑計畫在前天啟動也邀請了31位的諾貝爾得獎主來台公開演講或小型討論等比較多元的方式跟國內研究人員進行交流真的是非常難得的 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7265.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7288.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那這個台灣強良計畫是由中研院跟台大共同主導那除了邀請諾貝爾得獎主來台演講之外呢後續我想知道是我們有沒有規劃更多的學術合作的計畫或是有沒有跟大學進行課程合作讓我們學生呢能夠把握這麼難得的機會跟諾貝爾獎的得主有更深度的交流的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7291.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7316.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
委員 國際處處長報告我們的確已經跟台大開始設立兩邊的學生可以互相去對方的這個講座來聽講那台大也已經開了一個課程這個課程也讓我們的國際研究生都去修課那這個課程就是專注於這31位得獎主他過去的研究成果讓學生先有一個了解之後再來聽講所以是有開這樣的課程喔對 台大有開這樣的課程那我們跟他共課 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7316.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7333.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
在講座的部分其實本席有看過這個報名的表單那上面沒有提供即時線上參與的方式我想問一下可不可以研議讓中南部的民眾他們可以用線上報名參與的方式就是在線上可以觀看講座 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7334.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7350.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
報告委員因為這個事情牽涉到著作權的問題那目前應該是有點困難但是因為我們所有的講座三十幾場講座都會都對全國民眾開放他們只要掃QR code之後就可以報名就可以來參加完全沒有任何限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7351.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7376.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
那後續我們這個講座的內容會不會上傳到我們的YouTube頻道這個我們會跟和平基金會來研議那目前正在討論這個可行性如果有進展再跟委員報告因為這是非常難得的學術交流如果有相關的這些可以讓民眾他們隨時可以上去看的話我想這個是很難得民眾也都會覺得會把握我們會朝這個方向研議這個部分再請你們研議是好 謝謝謝謝蘇息 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7378.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7401.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
謝謝陳秀寶委員 官員請回座接下來請劉樹斌委員質詢有請廖部長 廖院長請廖院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7405.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7408.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
劉委員早好 院長早我們看到的是賴總統他前幾天主動的在頒發總統科學獎的時候提到的是333的諾貝爾獎的這個計畫那剛才也有委員提到的這個問題你也說到的是事前沒有跟賴總統沒有跟你詢問這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7430.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7438.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那我下面想要問的是可是在台灣橋樑計畫當中有沒有在這個目的上面是要培育到諾貝爾獎的這樣得主的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7443.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7472.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
我們主要是要希望全面提升台灣的科研水準倒不是針對要生產幾位超級巨星我認為說是諾貝爾獎雖然可以提振全民全國對科學研究的興趣跟支持但是更重要的是提振台灣全體的整體的科研的實力這更重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7472.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7491.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好 这非常好就是一个细水长流一个长远的计划是的那第二个问题呢想要请问的是您刚才也在回答了委员的部分呢有提到的四项的一个条件嘛那四项四项是从一个高级就是所谓的科研的部分去讲可是这个部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7491.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7511.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
基層在所謂教育的狀況那基層的部分我想提供請您補充這個意見包括說如果您也知道的是教育當中目前的教師荒跟steam的這個資質特別的缺乏的情況那您是不是在針對在基礎教育這邊提供您的意見對於在未來的連續到一個高教的或是在科技研究方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7512.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7535.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我想教育特别是高教跟研究方面我们是很多要改进的空间教师的人数仅是其中一项是不是最重要的我也不敢讲应该是教学的方式跟怎么样启发学生鼓励学生而不是教师人数的多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7537.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7555.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我想这个对我刚才的其实你可能就是还在重视到所谓的科研的领域我们目前在教育领域上面的科学的技术的跟engineer的部分还包括数学的部分的人才是非常的缺乏是因为教育的环境整个不好这部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7556.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7575.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
希望說當然那個廖院長你也會注意到這個高教的這一邊或是國民教育這部分的時候因為沒有的人才現在的二三十年三四十年的培育的話就不會有現在的一個好的科研人才出現這部分請你要留意那我們現在在講到第二個問題上面就是包括的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7575.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7600.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
中研院也有提到的AI的研究推廣部分當然有提到在AI的研究的人才培育可是現在的AI推動辦公室當中也有對智慧化的行政革新也提供了這樣的一個方向為了提升行政人員的AI工具的掌握能力我因此想要詢問113年跟114年度的時候包括未來的現在計劃的115年的預算規劃大概花了多少預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7605.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7613.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那如何去評估院內的行政人員AI素養的一個技能的提升我們請那個右單位回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7615.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7640.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
委員好 我是中研院資訊服務處陳林志處長我們針對院內AI的行政的提升我們分兩方面第一方面是環境的建置我們在今年還有明年我們目前編列的預算當中我們有特別編列了一些算力的擴充希望來支援我們院內行政AI化的這些各項服務大概多少錢 預算我們編列了將近兩億多兩億多那怎麼樣去確認這樣的一個能力有提升呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7644.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7665.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
那第二部分的話我們其實從去年開始我們每一季都有系列式的然後來跟全院的同仁來介紹一些AI的最新的工具發展還有使用的技術那我們在我們院內的行政上像是這個會議記錄的宣讀還有會議記錄的逐字稿然後以及一些這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7666.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7696.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
有没有一些数字量化的这个部分因为你要成两亿多预算投入方面可是必须要那个技能我希望有些量化的数据肯定出来这个部分或是有的我们的这个逐字稿工具我们从今年上线以来到现在如果我印象没记错的话应该已经累积了两万多分钟因为我把它换算过来的话已经节省了几百小时的人力那详细的数字可以事后再补充给委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7696.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7719.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
好 謝謝那當然我們希望視頻估計說立法院有沒有建立AI的系統生態這個事實上是一個非常好的我也知道說你們有包括這個在行政總署這邊你們也提供了他們這樣的一個這樣的合作我希望這個能夠加強希望說之後的因為時間因素就是說這部分我們本辦公室來做一下報告或是提供書面資料可以好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7720.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7745.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
另外我提到的是包括淨零碳排在預算治理的部分我們看到是中研院在淨零的部分有五支鍵當然我們看到國科會跟經濟部都有提到那今年的 明年的預算部分還多了13億的情況它特別的是在有的在去碳燃清跟升值碳會這部分是非常重要是兩個中研院跟國科會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7747 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7767.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
有共同的部分那因此我們就想要問的是說有沒有一個科研的這樣的一個計轉的就是說我們可以看到這邊是有跨部會的協作機制那這個跨部會的協作就是在右上角在那邊跨部會的協作機制是怎麼樣進行的有每年或在編預算或是在做分工嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7768.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7787.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我想在预算方面有稍微分工但是很多东西是需要衔接就像你这个棒球外野手跟中外野手跟防守区域会有重叠的部分所以我们是这样子的分工但是众议院是一个实际的研究单位 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7788.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7817.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
国科会跟经济部比较是这个发放经费当然他们下面有法人单位来做研究那我们这所有的全国各单位包括法人跟学界跟中文院都是经常在交流经常在共同研发所以这个是一个经常性的交流所以不需要有什么特别的一个机制就是这样就是一个像例行性的活动在进行对我们任何时间都在交流 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7817.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7840.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
所以不會有重疊的部分嗎因為我們看到的是這些經費上面包括我們剛才看到的這些所以你們這個協作機制是不是有把一個協作機制就是一個表類似的一個或是辦公室程序上面做出來我們在國會有一個近鄰推動辦公室的一個平台我是共同召集人所以透過這樣的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7842.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7867.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
我們跟國客會有很密切的討論跟協調所以這方面確實是在進行的好 希望說這個部分的協調機制當中如果說院長你有參與的時候是不是把你大概這一年來的部分就是開了幾次會這樣的一個包括有些成果部分跟我們辦公室來做一個書面報告提供這樣的書面報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7869.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7873.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
好 謝謝另外我們繼續再看到還有一個的問題是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7875.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7904.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
量子基地這部分看到的是量子基地在預算中心的報告當中指數到113年之後量子設施的預算保留金額高達3億9千多萬元那這邊呢他最主要是因為無塵室主體的工程未完成那請您提供一下在114年之後量子科技基地的這個建置時程為什麼還因為這樣子的一個情況導致量子的這個基地沒辦法就是沒辦法如期完還延宕兩年 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7906.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7934.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
我們請業務單位回答委員好我是關鍵中心主任李超煌量子機力的建設主要的延宕是在它的無塵室建設因為這個無塵室跟一般的半導體用的無塵室是不一樣它是超導體用的無塵室所以在裡面的很多工項還有作業的方法會跟傳統的一般的半導體無塵室不太相同那麼國內的廠商對這方面經驗不太夠導致我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7936.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7963.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
施工單位跟建造單位常常有很多意見上的不同那今年可以完成嗎今年剩下兩個月事實上廠商已經報竣工了廠商已經在九月半報竣工但是你也知道這個竣工完了以後我們就要查驗查驗還會有一些要修改還要再補充所以目前都還在做這個最後的溝通跟修正所以明年應該有機會把它完成明年應該是可以完成因為這也是中原非常重要的一個像算力這部分的一個影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7965.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7989.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
這個吳承士是製造量子位元的晶片我是說因為量子基地這部分的關係很重要我們繼續再看到的是關於國際人才的發展我們看到的是在辦理國際研究生的學程這部分最新的你們報告呈現出來是目前有622位學生在學 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7991.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8017.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
全體學生的人數六成是外籍人外籍生那他多回去到國際知名的學術研究機構去進行教育或是研究工作那可是還有四成是本國人嘛對不對是的那如果四成是本國人因為報告當中並沒有揭露到即使是外國學生那這個問題是本國人的他的留台比例或是就業去向你沒有揭露是不是再做一下說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8018.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8039.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
首先跟委员说明一下我们TIGP生产出来是博士很多博士生的下一步是到国外去做博士后特别是我们鼓励他说要有国际观所以他去国外进行博士后的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8039.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8060.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
并不代表说他没有留在台湾而且我们也不希望说这部分人就永远被我们绑在台湾所以他的训练过程中的一环他必须要到国外去所以这个只是一个他整个训练完成人才培育大家的一个部分但是你的资料要呈现出来揭露才能让我们立法院在审查预算的时候有所凭据 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8061.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8077.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
因為這個流財也是不是說短期的事情那之後十年二十年他們會在哪裡貢獻這個很難在短期的數據上看出來所以請委員要了解這樣的事情好 那如果是這樣的話就請你把它說清楚就是目前的中線規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8078.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8103.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
这个部分我们在预算审查的时候就变得非常重要的一环在下面的部分包括的是很快的就是在选送人文及科技精英的出国计划当中预算中心也提出来说博士生连续三年挂零大部分都是用于在短期的一个差旅部分那这部分是不是有一个比较长期的就是包括人才培育上面是不是可以有长期的研修基金甚至保留给十个博士生做长期研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8106.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8129.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
國際處說明其實這個連續三年掛零那個是疫情期間但是疫情之後其實我們已經都達到設定的目標了所以這一點我想應該請委員要放心我們現在的推進是已經有超過我們本來預期的目標所以明年我們會把這個基金的經費再往上修來支持更多的博士生可以有出國進修的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8129.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8150.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
希望就是這個部分的資訊是因為現在沒有看到所以必須要再更新以後書面不出來呈現出來那最後的部分呢就是跟講出來就是說還有一個計轉的這個收益的回饋制度你看到呢計轉的從111年244件到113年156件那權利金的收入下降4成因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8150.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8165.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
有學歷經濟下降之後但是也包括建樹的下降是不是把這個季轉的收益的回饋制度是不是可以回饋到研究人員或是包括博士後的人員才能讓大家的這個技術的人才留住更多有沒有這樣的考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8166.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8182.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
是 包委員 我是基短處處長邱文聰我們本來就有一個這樣的回饋的制度那這個對象不限於研究人員也包含這個博士後跟一般的已經有了本來就有了好 那因為在那你的報告當中應該是沒有呈現出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8183.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8209.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好 我們會再跟委員補充這部分的資訊好 這是因為想說今天是最新的報告能夠呈現出來那最重要的後來就是跟要強調是說目前的研究的人才是非常重要的那中研院也扮演了這樣子的一個很重要的功能所以希望把這樣的一個科研人才的培育就是在最高階的科研人才部分扮演好的角色好 那就各位辛苦了 謝謝好 謝謝謝謝游樹斌召委質詢院長請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8225.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8240.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
請郭育晴委員質詢好 等一下郭育晴委員結束之後我們就休息五分鐘謝謝主席 有請廖院長廖院長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8244.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8271.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
委員長好 委員長早安我想近幾年來其實我們中研院不斷地在拓展國際科研跟人文上的一些合作我們知道在10月份其實我們跟英國皇家學會共同舉辦了台英雙邊的一些會議另外這個是聚焦在健康然後糧食跟能源等等的領域強化深化彼此科研合作的一個夥伴這樣子的一個關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8273.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8298.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
另外其實也有多位的學者也參與了英國國家學術院全球召集計畫台北場的一個閉門的研討會逐漸其實我們也在拓展所謂的這些外交的一些科研的一個潛力但是在此同時我們知道在北京有一場全球視野下的中國抗戰的一個研討會 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8300.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8316.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那当然他们也吸引了大概全球有一些学者也共同的参与在台湾的部分好像也去了大概二十几位的一个学者其中有一位也是来自我们的这个中医院的近代史所的这个这是已经退休的人员 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8316.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8333.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那是退休的人員是是是是好他是退休人員但是其實我想這也凸顯到在現在兩岸的一些比較敏感的一個關係我想這個是現狀就是無庸置疑大家都非常的緊張那再加上這個中共的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8334.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8359.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
統戰的滲透其實他們是日益的精細的一個背景之下我想這樣子的一個學術的一個交流如果沒有防護的一個機制他有可能會成為所謂的政治或者是在國安上的一個破口那這也是我們不得不提醒尤其是我們的看到類似像這樣的情況其實在美國他們也特別要求這個學者他們要揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8359.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8380.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
所有跟這個外國資金的一個合作那麼在澳洲他們也有這樣子的一個設立就是外國干預風險的一個小組那相對來講其實我們中研院身為國家最高的學術科研的一個機構那我想這個部分也是扮演的非常重要的一個守門員的一個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8380.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8396.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那在這裡我想要請教的就是院長如果說目前有中研院他們的這些學者就是目前在中研院的學者他們想要去參加因為我們常常在說這個學術希望他是獨立的就是讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8397.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8419.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
讓學術獨立在所有的這個政治的風險之外但是其實以目前的現狀來講其實還是有一些困難的地方那如果他們要附中參加這樣子的研討會或者是合作的研究甚至要發表一些論文有沒有一些比較明確的事前的申報或者是在風險的機制的一個評估那這個申報的門檻又是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8421.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8450.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
是只限於他們所謂的這個公務的出國還是包含他們自己自費的學術交流也必須要向中研院這邊來申報那評估的內容他又是由誰來看到底是人事的單位還是有專責就是在我們中研院有沒有專責的一個國安的一個顧問團那評估的指標又會是什麼因為我們很擔心就是很怕流於形勢蓋個章他就可以出國囉但是他出國之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8450.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8475.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
他的这些我觉得我们众议院院可能还是要就比较机密的一些比方说像科研的内容或者是在国安上的一些疑虑来做这样子的一个就是依规来做申报就我刚刚所讲的这些问题就是风险的评估我们众议院院这边有没有这样子的一个机制我们请人事单位来回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8477.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8494.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
主任說明一下就是有關我們附錄的相關的申請的部分那原則上以我們現在來講附錄的申請我們就是要函報給內政部移民署的部分大概包含就是我們政務人員部分還有關鍵技術人員的相關的計畫那以及社密人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8495.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8515.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
以及就是他们离职后三年的政务人员这一个部分那原则上如果是这类人员他们要出国的话出境的部分那原则上我们就是应该要先依照规定报给移民署他同意之后那原则上我们自己内部也有资讯治安的相关的管控所以这个部分如果他们要俘虏的时候基本上我们有完整的一个机制的部分去做这样子的控管 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8516.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8533.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
好 這個是在我們的內部的機制那其實剛剛還包含我講的這些問題這些評估的報告會不會只留於形式可能蓋個章它其實就可以出去了就是中研院這邊我們是有跨部會比方說我們可能有跟這個資安或者是國安的單位有來對齊跟對接嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8534.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8561.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
基本上跟委員報告那幾個計畫的部分因為那是國科會跟中委院以及中委院自己本身計畫的列管所以報給他們的時候他們有一個專門的委員會去審查那目前為止就是我們並沒有附入申請的人員但是如果他有的話他就必須先循這樣的程序他才能夠附入另外我想再問一點就是說包含所謂的比較機敏或者是敏感的一些領域像是AI或者是半導體思安或者是居民融合的一些技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8561.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8584.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
在合作的部分有没有事先做过这样子的一个审查的一个制度有没有因为他这个报计划的部分是国科会他针对就是我们国家关键技术然后各机关可能有学校教授老师参与的部分到底是哪几个计划他必须去就是说他就是我们认为的国家核心关键所以这是经过就是移民署还有国科会他们的讨论 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8584.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8604.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以這不是只有中研院這邊決定他們決定這個部分它是一個機密國家機密的話那你這些人員有涉及的話那原則上他的賦入都是要控管好那除了跟剛剛所講到的這個部分那中研院自己的內部有沒有所謂的學術滲透的一個風險的窗口我們有沒有這樣子一個窗口 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8604.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8615.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我們中央醫院這個部分無論是剛才跟委員報告那些所有人我們所有的人他附入他又都必須要去填報我們的資安相關的規定所以每一個人出境都要填這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8616.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8637.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
這個是 我講的是內部我們自己本身中研院有沒有這樣子的一個窗口對 中研院好 那如果說這個國安單位他認為說這個部分是有合作上的疑慮那有沒有曾經有過這樣子的一個例子那我們中研院是不是能夠馬上立即凍結這樣子的一個計畫那有沒有曾經有過這樣子的一個案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8637.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8651.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
這些計畫全部被列管那列管的這些人目前沒有有實力嗎有這樣的實力目前都沒有目前都沒有碰過這樣子的一個問題為什麼我要特別這樣子的問因為其實我們是非常擔心尤其是在這個當下那 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8653.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8682.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
其實今年這個陸委會它在五月其實就已經有請示過了因為現在中國常常以所謂的科研的競賽或者學術的一個論壇或者是所謂的企業實習為名來吸引就是台灣不管是青年或者是學者附中但是附中之後它有可能會涉及所謂的這個軍民融合的一個單位和政治性的一個參訪這是我們不得不要提醒就是我們中研院這個部分其實真的要特別做這樣子的一個嚴加控管的一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8684.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8709.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
接下來我想問一下就是關於人才的部分請教一下院長我想這幾年中醫院我們也陸續推出所謂的人才的一些政策包含人才雙件的延攬跟延聘從博士或者是博士後的培育的支持整體的方向其實我們也是給予肯定但是在第一件我們是要延攬這個左右的人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8709.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8734.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那第二件的部分呢其實我們是要讓這個表現優異的研究員他可以延聘到所謂的70歲那我想這個部分當然也是穩固了所謂的中高階的這個研究的人力的一個量能然後但是呢我們怎麼樣來保障所謂的這個青年研究人員他們的升遷跟他們獨立的一個研究的空間來避免所謂的世代的一個斷層請教一下院長這個中研院的體制 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8736.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8757.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
并不是说一个萝卜一个坑是我们这些资深的研究人员我们鼓励他做长期的规划完全不会影响到年轻学者的身迁或者是他的经费因为我们是给他机会来提出长聘并没有给他经费 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8759.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8786.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我们这个制度设立的最主要目的是要能激励所有的人到了过了50岁45岁以上就开始规划你60岁的时候你怎么样提出一个达到二次长病人生学术的第二高峰的一个规划所以这是虽然是针对60到63但真正的用意是要带动所有 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8787.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8805.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
中生代甚至年輕學者長期研究長期規劃的一個風氣好 我想這個政策在啟動之後那中研院對於這樣子的一個不管是延攬或者是留任有沒有一個比較具體的成效的評估跟這個機制才剛開始有沒有預期什麼樣的一個目標那這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8810.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8819.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
很难讲说有预期据我们所知现在有不少学者对二次长聘制度是非常有兴趣是 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8820.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8849.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
好 那我想這次二次長聘其實我們是把這個剛剛有提到優秀人員我們是延聘到這個所謂的這個70歲那這個在制度上我們希望之後能夠在有具體的一些成效跟數字的時候再提供給我們辦公室來作為參考好那另外我想請教的就是在我們的培育端的部分我想這個菁英博士快速入學試行的一個計畫其實這也展現這個中央醫院對於國際情勢快速的一個反應的一些具體的一個做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8850.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8863.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
目前為止我們也要進行規劃第二波的招生第二波的招生有沒有預期是什麼樣的一個規模或什麼樣的一個標準在這個地方有沒有可以提供的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8865.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8891.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
报告委员我们第二波其实是持续进行当中那现在主要的目标应该是在今年年底到明年年初这段时间因为这个是大部分学生会来申请博士班的时刻那我们会持续的开放让第二波不会中断在任何一个时段只要有好的人才进来我们都可以让他进到有没有希望他们是哪一些领域是我们现在比较缺少的或者是我们想要再加强的 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8891.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8916.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我们现在其实三大领域就是人文甚至包括人文都有因为我们今年成立了第十四个国际研究生学程它是关注在东亚研究所以接下来我们会把人文社会跟自然科学跟生命科学都纳入考量好谢谢谢谢两位谢谢主席谢谢国育请委员请院长行政官员回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8923.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8945.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
現在請張雅玲委員質詢對我們就已經請了就先擬完我們再進行休息我們就到現在延後大概6分鐘左右不好意思謝謝主席那我們請院長謝謝請邀院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8951.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8954.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
張委員早好 院長早安我想最近先跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8955.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8983.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
这个院长来讨论一个我们最近发生的一个弊案就是说市检查出来中研院物理研究所超电导实验室前张姓助理研究员利用自己在外开设的科技公司和其他的厂商合谋从2018年到2020年利用科研采购与虚伪报价的方票向中研院请款那中研院也因为上述的这个不实采购案总共已经拨付了2000 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8986.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9007.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那其實呢在2017年浩鼎案發生之後呢當時監察院就有要求中研院要加強這個內控可是呢這一起物理所的弊案就發生在2018年所以呢這個強化的內控怎麼會讓兩名非編制的人員在長達數年之間利用這麼粗糙的一個手法榨領公款超過這個這麼多錢呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9009.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9026.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以我想請院長說明一下我們從2017年到現在在採購機盒和科研經費延銷上到底具體增加了哪些內控的SOP如果這些SOP存在的話那為什麼它會失靈呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9028.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9054.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
待会我们请业务单位证封来详细回答但是我们虽然做得非常非常多但是我想委员也听过道高一尺 魔高一丈特别是这一次涉案人员不只是本院一些前助理还有最主要12名被起诉的其中有10名是院外人士那这详细的我们请证封说明一下好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9057.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9080.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
委員好,我是政風市主任。這個個案的部分,我們在109年、110年以及在113年的時候,我們其實就注意到,包括我們的內控小組還有政風市,其實我們有進行不同的查核,包括內控的查核、專案集合,還有到縣地去查過他們這些物品的管理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9080.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9100.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那其實我們都有發現到不同程度上面的問題那我們都有提供給物理所這邊請他們來改進那就像我們剛剛院長所講到的因為它有結合到外部的廠商那我們內部的可以說我們的武器是有限的所以我們其實就針對這個個案的部分那我們其實都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9101.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9128.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
期间有一些掌握那在减掉进来的时候我们就积极的配合所以我们把这些资料其实都有提供给减掉所以我想问一下在这一次因为既然你们都有发现可是它还是持续的发生了就是109年110年113年总共发三次陆续都有发现可是看起来这个状况好像我不晓得中间到底有做了什么具体的强化的措施那因为我想毕竟中研院长管了相当多的一些研究经费我觉得这个还是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9128.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9137.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
有一些實質的做法啦我不曉得說可不可以簡單說明一下到底我們目前有沒有什麼實質的做法呢還是誰可以來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9140.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9163.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
總務處出報告公務員報告有關於採購的程序的部分這包括全院跟物理所的部分我們都有先了解那這個案子的發生其實它的問題在採購程序上面並沒有問題核銷的部分也沒有問題所以它主要是實際是耗材管理的這部分那我們這個部分除了採購的部分財產跟物品也有每年固定去抽檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9164.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9191.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
所以這部分有要求全院的各個單位都要做好物品的管理那這個案子因為它是處於物品管理的部分也請這個物理所要做好這個實驗室的耗材的檢討跟處理以上了解好謝謝那我們再請我可以再請院長院長抱歉院長我想因為剛剛有提到這是物理所但是剛剛有講到全院都有所以我們是不是可以因為剛剛這個總務處把這個細節講比較清楚但是不是可以提供給我們一份完整的調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9193.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9212.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
裡面要包含現在我們到底對這件事情的一個集合上面強化了哪些SOP還有這次的獅子人員我們會如何的懲處以及我們未來會如何防止研究人員成立私人經購再回來拿標案的利益迴避的機制可以嗎好 那一個月內可以嗎一個月我不曉得可不可以可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9214.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9233.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
因為聽起來一直都有在檢討嘛應該是可以吧 對不對兩個月好了讓他們多一點時間他們剛剛都已經一直在檢討一個月啦他們都OK了好不好 謝謝院長好 謝謝好 那再下一個就是來回到我們的兒童科普日那我想還是非常感謝因為我這次也還是有去那我也聽了這個講堂的部分我覺得真的講得非常精彩 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9234.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9257.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我看到現場也非常坐無虛席許多的年輕的孩子也都非常享受整個過程我想這個科普日非常叫好又叫座我也想跟院長再請教一下我們有沒有可能再進一步就是說我們現在中研院有這麼多的博物館我們這麼多博物館我想了解一下我們現在的博物館大概是誰來參觀為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9262.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9282.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
這個參觀的客群,我本人不太清楚,我們可能要統計一下才會更為回報。好喔,那可不可以我們也來了解一下,因為我想這個整個館長,我想中研院一開放,哇,真的是到處都有小朋友都非常熱切的參與,我想大家對於中研院的各種知識的探索充滿了好奇,那我覺得博物館就是一個最好的老師。 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9283.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9301.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
那是不是有可能我們來了解一下我們到底博物館目前的一個到底是誰來啊流量多少我們有沒有可能再針對於小孩的部分來去增加一些吸引讓他們也可以來參與的這個的展覽這是不知道是不是可以再來跟院長來請託 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9303.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9318.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我想这方面的我们会朝这方向思考但是是不是可行还有很多问题可能需要配套措施解决因为毕竟我们是一个研究单位我们不是一个博物馆 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9319.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9342.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
對 但是我跟院長報告一下你看喔這是2024年翻轉教育的報告2020年他推薦哪裡其中一個就是中研院的歷史文物城列館耶是所以我想這個地方是滿有吸引力這樣科普日一開放的人都非常多那我們是不是可以看現有的資源像人力上面我們有沒有可能因為這也是附近學校的老師的請託啦有沒有可能我們朝這方向努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9343.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9351.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
好喔,那這個部分的話我們就是大概什麼時候研議大概需要多久的時間呢?這個,市域所可不可以解釋一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9354.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9381.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
委員好 我是食育所的副所長林聖志關於這個科普方面向來是我們博物館推動的成年館推動的一個重點那這本來就是我們在做的事那我們現在會在我們現有的人力跟經費上來擴充活動那包括線上還有實體展方面我們都會進一步加強然後我希望可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9382.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9408.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
一個月內可以給委員一個清楚的答覆好喔 謝謝喔那我想因為畢竟中研院還是以學術研究為主要的工作啦所以是在人力跟經費上面時間許可上面我們再來做進一步的開放那在下一個部分我也想跟院長再來討論一下就是說去年其實我有針對中研院啟動一個兒童高溫的研究因為整個氣候變遷熱傷害對兒少的影響其實是非常非常的大那 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9409.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9438.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
當時這個中研院是說他們可以做一個前導性的研究那我也看到一個研究的相關的計畫所以今天我想要跟院長再來請教一下就是說我覺得這個計畫內容非常的全面也非常的符合我們這個兒童在學校裡面的一些熱傷害的一些的方向熱傷害防護的一個方向但是我想要再跟院長爭取一下我們是不是可以在這份研究的基礎之上 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9440.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9460.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
據在針對不同氣溫下的兒童活動限制以及提供一個鋪面或校園綠化的標準然後以及第三個是熱風險跟高溫早期育嬰系統的建議這三個部分是不是有可能再延伸到這樣子的研究呢請那個餘高主任的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9461.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9488.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
委員好環變中心主任陳玉高跟你做進一步的資訊溝通其實我們今年已經用既有預算做一些初步的工作我可以會後提供我們最初步的結果給委員參考後續剛剛委員揭示的就是我們有初步成果之後後續要接接到管理面的這部分可以在後續等資訊更完整一點我們院裡面會考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9489.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9512.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
讓同仁們找到更適合的合作對象一起來完成這件事情所以這個聽起來是可行的嘛 對不對好 謝謝因為我想從研究到務實上面還是真的蠻需要中研院給予一些建議那最後我也想請院長就是說我們是不是有可能成立一個跨領域的兒童熱健康研究小組結合氣候醫學教育跟城市規劃領域來強化科學與政策的一個連結呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9514.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9542.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這個我們回去研究看看好喔這是嶄新的構想但我們沒有考慮過對我們思考看看思考看看那我一樣一個月之後再來跟中研院來了解一下思考的結果好嗎還是要更久的時間院長很喜歡兩個月好啦 兩個月啦這個就兩個月好 謝謝喔好 謝謝好 謝謝張雅玲委員質詢那行政部官員請回座我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9549.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9550.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
謝謝觀看,下次見 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9868.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9872.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
好 我們繼續開會現在請葉元之委員質詢主席好 麻煩請院長 謝謝我請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9893.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9915.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
院長早安 院長在 您應該是在上個月吧您有在美國史丹佛有進行一個演講嘛是叫做大概是跟台灣21世紀產業創新還有永續經營有關那這個我在網路上也有看了院長的演講那院長的演講裡面提到一個非常重要的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9916.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9942.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
就是有關於我們的能源政策但這個議題跟民進黨政府長期跟我們講的數據是天差地別按照現在政府告訴我們的說法2030年我們的綠電要到30%然後燃煤是佔20%燃氣佔50%因為非核家園然後之前還有一個因為2050就是要全世界要達到淨零碳排 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9943.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9946.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
所以政府也有告訴我們一個淨零碳排的目標也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9948.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9972.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
2050年的時候我們主要的用電的配比是要以再生能源為主大概要佔60%到70%火力發電20%到27%氫能是9%到12%這是在行政院網站都查得到的然後再生能源60%到70%裡面主力就是風力跟光電這是政府告訴我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9973.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10000.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
當然中研院是研究機構大概跟行政院不同體系但是因為院長是我們中研院是研究的最高的機關您講的話我相信是非常有代表性而且是科學理性的沒有帶有意識形態也沒有政治性您在史丹佛的演講提到一個問題你就說台灣地狹人稠實際上光電是難以發展 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10001.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10027.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
三分之二是山地嘛所以我們實際上能夠發展光電的地條件有限這是沒錯沒錯嘛但是我們現在仍然是還是要大力發展並不是說這樣子就不發展但是即使大力發展仍然是沒有辦法滿足我們所有的綠電的需求這個意思但是並不是不發展對 當然啦現在都還有在發展沒有叫它不要發展也要全力發展但即使全力發展仍然是不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10028.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10049.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我是這個意思因為你總不能夠發展到破壞環境除此之外你要是在保護環境的情況之下盡量發展但是台灣受限地理條件因為三分之二是山地所以你再怎麼發展也是有限那風電的部分的話現在你也有提到說只能靠離岸風電 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10051.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10066.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
因為現在的很多陸基發電我相信很多地方政府也不會同意了即使同意但是因為受限於土地面積這個海域面積仍然是有其限制並不是能夠百分之百能夠達成我們的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10067.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10096.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
是這個意思 對但是我們仍然要全力發展當然 我現在我們都是以全力發展的前提之下在討論這件事只是說因為它有很多限制所以在風電因為像我剛剛講的風電一般是分成陸基風電跟離岸風電陸基風電現在我們已經看到它很多是二三十年前當時設立的目前都遭受到地方政府的一些或者當地人士的反對因為它會造成低頻的噪音所以陸基風電可能會受限 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10096.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10119.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那您是說離岸風電那離岸風電其實現在有的場域都差不多了除非你要改變航道才有可能增加離岸風電的那個場域那這個也有受限我覺得大家要務實看這個問題所以院長因為您有這樣的一個認知所以你提出來的數據跟行政院是差非常多我們來看一下因為我截取了一下你的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10120.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10146.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
你的投影片你是有提到就是說台灣的能源是有分用電跟非用電對不對用電大概是佔了是佔多少57%好 下一頁然後再來你有提到我們現在2025年8月份能源配比燃煤是39% 燃氣49%再生能源11% 對吧所以現在我們主要還是火力發電大概佔了88% |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10148.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10159.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
但關鍵是什麼呢關鍵我們來看一下2050年因為剛剛我有提到2050年我們政府就告訴我們說60到70%是在政人員可是院長您這邊的預估2050年下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10164.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10177.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
我們看一下2050年這個是你畫的這是你畫的圖嘛是的對 畫的圖嘛是的你看現在您的預估是說到了2050年我們的用電應該是需要500兆瓦時 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10178.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10184.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
5000億度500的兆瓦斯就是5000億度我們講5000億度好了我們現在是2800億度是2023年到目前為止2800億度我們估計2050年至少5000億度可能會更高可能會更高5000億度甚至於到6000億度對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10201.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10214.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
因為我們要發展AI數據中心沒錯所以換句話說2050年當那時候我們的用電量是現在的兩倍以上對吧對沒錯嘛所以您就畫出了一個非常大的缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10216.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10233.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
這個透明的部分是缺口那院長請問一下按照您的想法我們現在要用什麼發電方式我就在旁邊已經寫了第一個是去碳燃氫就是我這邊寫Methane Pyrolysis是去碳燃氫其中在一部分沒辦法做的就是加上CCS |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10234.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10251.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
就是碳捕捉除能然后过来发展地热再过来发展生殖能海洋能最后再可能我们必须要用新核能的技术或者是从国外进口这个氯氢或是氯氨到了2050年我们期待希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10253.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10278.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
那個時候會有綠清綠安的國際市場對 可是您提的這個部分跟行政院告訴我們就不一樣了因為行政院告訴我們說2050年60%到70%的再生能源主要是以風力跟光電為主但是院長這邊的數據是告訴我們說風力加光電大概就是1000億度大概是1000億度那1000億度就佔5000億度的 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10281.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10282.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
五分之一啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10283.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10312.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
然後如果要到6000億度的話就更小所以我不知道說中研院的研究為什麼跟行政院所標示出來政策目標會差那麼大中研院的預算我們都全力支持但中研院除了學術研究之外應該務實的把它化為政策所以我們現在就發現說研究的成果跟政策在我們中華民國政府有很大的落差我不曉得說院長平常你們的研究跟行政院有暢通的管道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10316.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10335.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
首先再生能源也包含地熱我知道但是政院是說60到70再生能源裡面主力是火力跟風力跟方電首先委員講的沒錯我們是個研究單位行政院是政策制定跟執行單位兩邊雖然有溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10338.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10361.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
並不是說我們提出來的見解行政院就必須照單全收畢竟我們是學術研究單位我們從我們的角度出發我們認為是這樣行政院可能有不同的考量而且您提出來數字假如我沒記錯應該兩三年前第一次提出來的一個數字我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10361.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10377.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
日後也會滾動式檢討包括我們自己的認知大家都會滾動式檢討現在也很難講說是我們現在當然認為是我們講的是比較是可能的但是不排除說 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10379.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10406.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
行政院會變比較可能你的意思是這樣行政院跟中研院我當然是相信中研院所以我們希望中研院的數據可以成為政策目標那您剛剛提到兩年前對我是在行政院的網站上看到的那如果兩年都要做滾動式修正那你怎麼預估到205年的事2050年這個是這幾年這是25年後兩年都要不斷修正25年後那要修正10次 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10406.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10427.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那現在提出來的任何數字有任何的參考意義嗎這是一個目標所以當然我們以現在我們當然就是要以現在的這個基礎來做討論嘛那就當然會我會希望說院長因為我們是相信你你在學術界大家都很尊敬但您講的話包括你去史丹佛的演講居然跟中華民國政府所講的落差這麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10429.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10446.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
到底大家要相信誰這個我相信國人也會產生很大的困惑所以我希望說中研院的研究基礎可以成為政策的至少很重要的參考而不是落差這麼大差一點點我們不會拿出來講啦重點是差很大差很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10447.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10466.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
這個就有點離譜了我自己覺得就是政府的政策希望院長可以應該有一些管道可以跟政府建議一下透過貴大院好 那我讓你多講一點你現在要對行政院建議什麼還有時間嗎 有沒有建議一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10467.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10482.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
你把你的投影片或者是你把你的連結傳給行政院讓他們看一下我在行政院也報告過所以我們是從科學技術的角度來估算 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10490.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10499.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
另外要從政策面需要考量實際的社會的接受度等等的這些都需要考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10501.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10513.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
所以行政院有不同的考量方式這個我就不怎麼清楚了好 不清楚好 再一分鐘我跟請教一下因為賴總統在前兩天有說有一個333諾貝爾計畫希望30年內增加三位諾貝爾得主30年 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10519.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10537.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那不禁又讓我想起二十年前當時政府也說要有一個那時候叫做宮頂計畫院長您知道嗎二十年前宮頂計畫說也要培養諾貝爾得主結果二十年之後我們的總統又講三十年這就五十年了耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10538.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10552.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
這就五十年了我不知道這是口號嗎還是每一個總統上來之後都要講二十年後 三十年後五十年後 一百年後我希望台灣會有諾貝爾得主這個到底是隨便喊喊還是院長你覺得可行 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10553.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10570.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我這個不斷強調這個要非常努力那是個好的目標但是在這我跟這個委員分享一個諾貝爾獎得主在十年前寫了一篇文章他想怎麼樣得諾貝爾獎首先 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10571.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10591.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
不要去想他好好的做研究這最重要的不要去想諾貝爾獎重點是做好研究不是得諾貝爾獎這是那篇文章第一個要素講的跟這個委員分享那你覺得哪一個領域現在最有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10592.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10620.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
一樣我們是要做好研究不要去想所以那你那既然不要去想為什麼要訂這種30年後要三位為什麼要去想這件事那是國家的願景我們講的是這個每一個研究人員的態度每一個研究人員態度不能每一天急急慌慌叫得諾貝爾獎那會生活得非常辛苦對啊所以我剛也是問您的願景嘛你的願景覺得哪個領域比較有可能有這個願景嘛那是每一個應該都想說我自己的研究是最有希望的 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10621.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10645.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
好 加油但是每一个人要重视自己做的研究把扎实的研究做好而不是想说要得什么奖好 谢谢因为我没有什么机会得诺贝尔奖所以你这个应该不是讲给我听的我只是想说这样的愿景答得到答不到了和平奖可能好 谢谢跟川普竞争我努力 我努力 谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10646.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10660 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
好謝謝葉元之委員就謝謝院長提供了所有做科研究的人才應該具備的一個基準的態度然後也非常豐趣謝謝我們現在請林怡瑾委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10675.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10682.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
謝主席 有請廖院長請廖院長林委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10684.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10705.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
院長早首先本席想要跟院長討論一下主權AI現在速發部正在推動台灣的主權AI各部會也要盤點適合的資料上架到台灣的AI訓練語言資料庫後續會開放民間跟政府機關來申請使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10706.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10727.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
速發部林部長說AI模型的訓練需要大量的資料希望政府跟民間把擁有著作權的資料釋放出來以訓練出台灣觀點的AI模型先前我有初步跟中研院詢問上架相關資料到台灣AI |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10729.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10753.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
主权AI的训练语言资料库的情形你们回复的资料是说中央院目前已经有古汉语近代汉语跟敏克语当代华语的语料库除了古汉语的文献资料已经没有著作材料权其他多数的文献都需要一一去确认著作权跟智慧材料权 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10754.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10782.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
而當代出版的包裝雜誌跟兒童讀物也要經過確認原始的著作權跟智慧財產權才可以考慮上架台灣的AI語言資料庫而口語的語料因為當初跟發音人簽授權的範圍只限於學術研究所以這個部分就沒有辦法開放上架AI語言資料庫院長我理解這樣對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10785.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10804.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
大致正确但是我们目前是至少我个人是鼓励所有的研究人员在法规许可的范围内尽量开放这些语料供我们主权AI训练那我们有各种不同的方式那我们的专家一堆专家后面都请他们解释 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10805.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10826.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
沒關係 院長我先跟你再繼續探討下去喔因為就是說因為中研院擁有跟收錄這個全台灣最豐富的這個學術研究資源所以也是國內最高的研究單位所以我想歷年來建置很多很多的資料庫也很努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10826.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10845.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
就像剛剛院長說很努力在致力於資料的開放那要開放供大眾研究的同時我覺得就是應該要將各項珍貴的資料來可以提供給台灣主權AI的資料庫所以如果能解決著作權 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10846.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10867.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
跟智慧財產的問題將這個豐富的資料文本可以上傳到台灣主權AI的語言資料庫我想勢必對這個主權AI的訓練一定有很大的幫忙所以請教院長中研院擁有這些文本的資料後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10868.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10892.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
怎么样尽可能尽可能来上架到台湾主权AI的这个训练语言资料库那特别是发音人的这口语资料的问题有没有办法进一步来开放提供训练台湾主权AI来使用因为要上传这个所有的文本资料来提供台湾主权AI的使用是有没有办法跟原作的 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10894.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10900.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
這個授權來脫鉤啦這個可能要來努力解決這個侵權的疑慮好委員好 我是治財處處長邱文聰那針對委員的詢問如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10908.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10924.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
著作權是歸屬本院的部分的話我們願意沒有條件的來提供只要他目的是做訓練的話沒有問題但是委員提到如果他的來源的授權是受到限制也就是說權力不在本院不在眾議院的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10924.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10949.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
那要去突破可能就必須透過立法的方式或者是在個案上面法院去判定它是否構成合理使用個人認為說這樣子的途徑其實是對於訓練主權來講是確實是比較不足的但是要突破的話可能還是需要大院透過立法的方式比如說透過強制授權或者像是日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10950.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10971.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
他們在助納權法上面直接用立法的方式去明定為了這種訓練的目的那這樣子的使用是屬於合理使用才能夠去解套不然的話我們自行在後端在未經權利人的這個同意下拿來做訓練使用的話仍然是有可能會構成是一個違法的重置甚至違法的利用以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10973.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11000.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那另外先前中研院有提过就是说我们目前中研院自己的资料库虽然大部分有开放给民众使用可是还没有做到文字化的阶段那中研院之前是说人文组的运用人工智慧解锁历史文献这个计划已经审核通过了那我们正积极在推动最新的AI技术来加速这个资料的数位文字化 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11004.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11027.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
訓練 所以想要請教院長的是這項計畫的工作進度如何那歷史文獻全文數位化的這個成果會上架到台灣主權AI的資料庫嗎那像是清嶺時代或者日治時代的一些文獻那應該早就沒有這個版權的問題那這些可以上架到台灣主權AI語言資料庫嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11030.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11049.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
這個部分現在這位委員所秀我是資訊所廖鴻元所長這個計畫就是我們連玲玲副所長她的計畫下面有四個我們綜藝院院長特別交代的專案計畫她有四個目前有四個紙計畫在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11050.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11066.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
最主要像地籍古時候日治時代的那種地籍圖它需要經過因為它的字是用手寫的然後有很多蓋章所以我們需要經過影像處理一些處理然後再把它變成數位化在這個狀況之下我們現在還在 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11069.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11088.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
今年是第二年它的速度就增快非常多一开始的时候技术不足但是现在已经变得非常有技术所以这个部分在进行中然后我想这个部分呢至于它的那个因为它历史时代已经久远应该没有所谓的版权的问题是是是所以应该是可以纳入而且进行的相当好 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11088.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11102.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
好然後另外的還有台思索他們也有一個計畫也是在做這是我們院長極力在推的這個怎麼樣把我們的這些文本資料有關於歷史的文本資料能夠把它數位化然後把它處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11103.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11126.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
好謝謝那我再簡單再追問一個問題就是說中研院有個數位文化中心那大約有131個資料庫跟工具平台還有主題網站這些數位化的成果可是有些網站已經失效那需要轉置也需要這個重新檢視那資料那現在資料庫的數量有 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11126.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11154.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
就現在需要重新檢視的資料庫有107個那看起來有做盤點下架那不過本席是發現還有少數的網站是失效的那另外本席之前也有說過就是說關鍵字的這個搜尋功能目前只能針對個別的網站來提供簡短的說明內容做搜尋那沒有辦法跨資料庫的檢索那這部分似乎好像還沒有改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11155.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11183.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
整體來說就是說雖然中研院有數位典藏平台當作入口的網站可是彙整大部分的這個數位資源跟成果的網站跟實際操作起來還是難以實現跨資料庫的這個解鎖那使用者還是要就是要進到不同的網站然後反覆輸入關鍵字那以上本席所提到的中研院在改善經濟上覺得還有哪些的挑戰院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11185.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11212.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我想这方面网页失联部分我们会请出文化中心可以改进好委员好上次委员提醒之后我们其实就在院长指示之下我们做各所的统整当然因为我们过去承接了过去国家数位典藏计划里面的一些资料所以包括了一些不只应该算一百多个网站其实有三百多个网站正在维运当中尤其有很多因为系统的部分也停摆了 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11213.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11230.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那这就是过去国家气候检查人留下来的这个资产我们也希望能够火化先我们注象是是缤纷两路一个是我们众议院既有的各个所他们所维运的系统是不是能透过您所提到这种跨国户检索来进行那这东西涉及到整个网络架构的问题我们还在盘点之中哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11230.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11258.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
另外一个就是国家数位典藏留下来这个300多个网页我们进行维聚当然也涉及到一个资安的问题那我们现在希望能够这东西提供一个联合目录的重新的整形和再并那这个情节上就会使得我们大家同仁在使用所谓过去国安建制的这些资料的时候能够继续使用和活化所以谢谢委员指导我们会进一步能够提供您的了解好 再努力 再加油好 谢谢院长 谢谢主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11260.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11273.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
謝謝林益菁委員請院長回座現在請林瓊英委員質詢 楊瓊英委員質詢時間4分鐘好 謝謝主席 我們邀請院長邀請院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11289.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11312.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
楊委員好院長好 我們來討論再生能源那麼院長這個畫面你應該不陌生因為你之前在演講的時候也提到2050年再生能源風電跟太陽能在我國最大的提供大概是100兆瓦斯1000億度多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11314.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11330.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
1000亿度对啊就是1000亿度100兆瓦时那即便把现有的核电厂重新再启用也大概只有30亿兆瓦时那剩下的这个电力缺口还是要以其他的方式来补是 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11331.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11357.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
那您提出了因为我们我国的这个地球这个地下人口嘛三分之二大概是山地所以光电跟风电呢这个确实它是受到空间的一个受限那在这样的情况之下你认为到目前为止你看我们发展的再生能源我们是不是有这样子的一个空间的一个受限请做说明是会有限制没有错 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11358.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11382.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
是会有限制那么再生能源在台湾来讲它发展上似乎如果如此它变成会有一个上限而且它会有一个阻碍那也代表着我们的再生能源跟新能源并列核电不管是现有的重启研疫或者是未来的发展都是我们能源政策应该采用的重点吧是不是 院长是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11382.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11406.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
是的所以在演講當中您也提到2023年的時候我們用電大概是280這個2800億度2800億度在這樣的情況之下就算假設我們經濟成長是零我們到了2050年的時候我們至少要5000億度我們至少要5000億度甚至可能要到6000億度 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11407.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11431.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
那這個數字還沒有算上現在新的AI的資料的大量的一個需求那所以在2050年我們再生能源擴展的上限是1000億度的時候那麼從數字上跟邏輯上來看如果繼續非核家園的政策根本沒有辦法支撐這個國家所需要的電力缺口是不是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11432.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11447.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
即使用核能仍然是不够对我们要强调是即使用核能仍然不够所以核能是必要的是会有帮助的是会用核能是会有帮助的所以我们继续讨论也就是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11448.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11466.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
曾經您也說過我們國家的一個發展它不應該排除核能在這樣的脈絡之下本席要請教過去政府推這個廢核也就是廢核家園的政策那你是不是同意啊政府當前的廢核家園政策你是不是同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11466.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11493.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
每一個政策都有它的時代背景而且科技是隨著時間在不斷地進步所以目前為止呢目前這一般的體認是不用核能是非常可惜的一件事情因為核能畢竟它是現在被接受為一個捷徑能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11494.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11515.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
但是它必須要為社會民眾所接受也必須要能夠處理核廢料的問題更重要的是安全要沒有顧慮那這三項在目前的至少兩項就是安全跟核廢料至少安全在技術上是可以突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11516.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11536.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
對 剩下就是核廢料的處理是比較困難一點全世界也同樣沒有核廢料沒有地方做永久核廢料的組織剩下就要說服一般民眾一般民眾即使你贊成也說建在你家不要建在我家建在你家我就贊成建在我家我就 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11537.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11558.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
所以这么的解读就是说目前政府当前的非核家园政策它是没有办法去回应我国未来电力的需求是不是因为政府也说他们采开放性的一个态度来看待这件事情我不确定说这个非核家园是不是仍然是政府的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11559.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11587.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
这个我不确定所以刚刚院长所说的也就是因为核电整个的目前跟以往的技术是不一样的所以这一点是比较安全的一个取向那所以在这样的情况下现在我们的环境基本法的23条也就明定规定政府应该定定计划逐步达成非核家园的这个目标那如果照院长我们以及现在社会大众以及全世界的一个方向你是否愿意 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11588.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11612.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
來表示說支持我們整個重啟核電這樣子的一個積極的發展核能態度是的因為本席在經濟委員會現在他們的進度是簽核到經濟部那可能下個 據本席了解的進度下個禮拜就會由經濟部來核定他們的安檢是否需 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11612.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11630.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
许可不许可那么我们希望这个方向是朝正面的开始启动我认为是正面的你认为是正面的所以在荷兰的技术方面要向全民能够说明是安全性没有问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11631.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11654.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
這個我想大家才容易接受好 所以在整個核安因為你是學術界的牛耳麻院長我們實質討論也就是說目前台電在盤點核二核三那進程大概下個禮拜會去做核定的工作那麼請教如果我們在整個提升核電安全技術上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11656.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11671.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
來做核二核三的一個安全性的運轉方向來執行台灣目前是有這個能力的嗎請教當然所有事情不應該只限於台灣的能力我們可以引進國外的技術是 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11672.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11693.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我想引进国际国际上绝对是有这个技术国际上有这个技术所以这个方向是可行的所以我们也希望因为国内大家希望能够有稳定的电安全的电一定要朝这个方向好好来加油谢谢谢谢杨琼英委员院长请回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11702.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11714.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
現在請吳佩奕委員質詢謝謝主席 我請中研院廖院長有請廖院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11718.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11735.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
吳委員長 院長好先報告主席因為我看到我們以前清大社會所陳志偉教授在現場所以我今天時間可能會縮短然後首先呢這個我要請教要請吳教授上台就好不用不用不用我怕他問我問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11738.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11760.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
好 這個齊煥院長就是日前我們看到也是我們本院的同事歐小黎委員在他社群平台他有發文他說中研院的法律研究所有其中因為在預算書上面有看到兩個研究其一是如何合理選任大法官其二是中共對台法律戰這兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11762.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11788.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
研究議題那翁小林委員呢他的撰文當中他認為呢中研院法律所做這樣的研究形同淪為賴清德總統的私人律師那我想我們先進行事實的確立再來進行評論跟判斷首先我想請教這個賴清德總統有沒有指定中研院法律所必須要來列入這兩個研究計畫請法律所解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11792.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11815.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
吳會員我是法律所所長李建良首先針對你的問題是剛剛問題是for那我們以通案來說在我們這個中研院如果新興的計劃因為就我了解我們是學門如果有研究計劃提報上來由下而上提報給院來審查我們這個審核我們研究主題的程序是什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11816.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11833.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
我先重申一下本所基本上是非常尊重個人的學術自由我們所有的研究計畫基本上是由研究人員自己評估對於研究的主題的重要性然後提出計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11834.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11850.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
然後我們通常會是請這個研究同仁在大概是十月左右的時候提出他們的這個隔年的研究的需求再由我們來評估說這些的研究主題是不是具有重要性那大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11851.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11865.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
基本上是這樣剛剛提到的兩個主題這兩個主題基本上都是對於我們台灣社會制度是非常重要的因此也在這樣的一個前提之下他們希望能夠做這樣的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11866.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11884.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
好 謝謝那我想對不起這個我剛才也強調過眾議院是尊重學術自由那這些題材研究題材都是研究人員自發性的提出來那只要是學術上合理我們絕對都尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11885.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11906.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
所以這個絕對不是這個中研院院方或是所方要他們做什麼事情都是他們自己認為這個是重要的問題自己提出來的研究是 這個事實我覺得要釐清因為中研院是我們台灣最高研究機構把我們研究機構說成是私人的律師我認為這是對學術研究很重大的侮辱 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11907.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11935.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
因為不是說哪一個人的律師的問題如果你一個學術機關變成淪為個人所用這都是我們不會認同而且也不應該發生的事情那何況這兩個主題我認為對當今的台灣社會來說至關重要像我們以前清大社會所我的老師其實是謝國雄老師所以如果對我有評論不是找陳志柔老師我們的核心精神以身為度 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11936.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11954.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
必須要具有社會關懷我們也很希望我們的研究能夠對社會有所貢獻或是能夠引發社會的思考那我們的憲法法庭已經一年停擺沒有運作了這個大家社會都很關心那中國對台灣的法律戰更是 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11955.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11975.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
逐漸的更加的嚴重所以我想我們社會對兩個主題都希望我們有更深刻的了解那另外要請教院長的是你也很關切的是您6月30號在中研院學術大會演講你有提到升等考核的標準應該要重視值得提升不應該單純以量來作為一個考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11978.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11995.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
所以我們也提出了敘述性履歷這樣的改革大概上路到現在將近要一年的時間能不能請院長說明一下敘述性的履歷我們如何來幫助未來對於學術的衡量能夠種植也種量 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11996.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12022.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
这基本的精神就是我们不再是只强调说你出版了几篇论文那论文的impact factor多少而是要研究人员自己能够论述你在研究中有产生哪些知识的贡献而且包括说你跟别人合作你的角色是什么你贡献哪些东西在这过程当中你必须要界定问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12023.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12037.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
那闡述為什麼這個問題我來研究有什麼重要性 有什麼突破性有什麼創新性我們希望說他能夠論述這些角色這些他的貢獻而不是單純把他的CV拿出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12038.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12063.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我想很多研究人員都很樂見這樣的改革就是種植的這個目標但是在實務落實上面我們是如何來進行我們的評審委員有沒有來進行相關的培訓以及所謂的質的審查它有沒有一個標準所有在學術界關於質的審查都是靠專家學者心中的一把尺沒有辦法說做一個很明確的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12065.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12076.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那我们这方面我们不断在院内推动也在学组聘审会跟学组聘审会委员强调要以这样的标准也获得大家的认同 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12078.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12098.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
好我們很關心這個問題也希望能夠逐漸朝這個方向去前進那也擔心是因為我們目前的升等的門檻代表作跟論文書其實還是沒有放寬的所以呢他究竟是會朝向重職不重量還是重職也重量的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12099.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12126.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
去改變會不會變成其實這個為了要面臨這個審查結果研究人員的負擔反而變更多了我們要如何避免這樣子的情況發生我想這是研究人員的一個目標不能把它當作一個負擔所謂負擔通常是你不想做額外去做才叫做負擔這是你應該做的本來就是應該努力的目標所以即使 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12127.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12153.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
你做了我们不应该把它当作是一个负担而是应该把它你本来就应该做的事情那我们的这个升等的门槛代表作跟论文书仍然是我们关键的不是我们就强调再三强调我们没有所谓的论文书所以我们不会制定说你要有几篇论文在升等这个我们不会做 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12154.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12166.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我们也在今年初的大学校长会议跟所有大学校长分享这些看法也获得很多大学校长的认同 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12167.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12189.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
這我覺得非常的重要因為我們在跟國科會討論的時候也提到中研院已經開始有進行這個這個這樣子的變革然後採用敘述性履歷的方式那國科會有很多計畫我們建議他們要來進行採納那在這個大學校長的會議上面院長你也提到說因為我們現行審查制度是外省為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12190.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12201.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
那你希望未來能夠外省提供意見內省來決定這是什麼樣的想法呢不是 就是外省是提供外省針對研究的部分做他們的評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12206.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12232.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
但最后你要决定升等与否是应该由利益相关者做的决定什么叫利益相关者呢学校的老师学生跟行政体系他们要想发展哪一个方向他们才知道说这个人升等与否对我们目标是否可以达成而不是一个在 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12233.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12255.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
校外或院外的人他不知道你發展的目標他怎麼樣審查所以最終要看說你升等考核要跟你學校發展的目標要一致那這一點這才是最終升等考核的標準好我想學術社群的健康跟健全我覺得非常的重要尤其是在當今能夠繼續留在學術領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12258.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12285.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
努力奮鬥打拚這都是我們國家很重要的人才我覺得非常令人敬佩所以我們也期待中研院可以當領頭羊來幫我們的學術環境持續的進步謝謝院長謝謝主席好謝謝吳佩奕委員質詢請院長回座現在請李彥秀委員質詢李彥秀委員李彥秀委員不在請蘇清泉委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12288.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12307.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在請邱志偉委員質詢請中研院廖院長請廖院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12315.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12340.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
教委員好院長您好 幾個問題請教院長就是說我們全年度的預算規模才140億140億你要三大的這個學組然後24個研究所 9個研究中心因為預算的多寡牽涉到一個國家研究的成果跟研究能量以及研究的品質您就任院長多久的時間您就任院長多久的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12341.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12356.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
九年又大概八个月吧我能不能说出你心中的这个想法你一直觉得这个预算不够对不对预算永远是不够的所以你知道问题要解决问题啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12358.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12384.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
你知道問題要跟院長跟總統報告就是說國家的科學能量不管是生命科學或者是數理或者人文這都是等量 奇怪的東西研究能量增加國家的力國家的競爭力才會強大是 我們現在最大的問題是要跟大院溝通最主要是在委員會審查之後我們最大的問題是到這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12387.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12406.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
院會通山的部分過去委員會中心主義應該委員會通過的就不應該在草野其他又再砍一次這個沒有這個道理是那我們在委員會審查就白審了是我們認真的看預算書是的連你們每項計畫我都注意看雖然我不是這個本委員會是 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12407.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12436.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
所以這邊大家討論結果通過了預算送出去委員會你除非有新的事項或者是重大的這個計畫變更你在這個235你在協商的時候才提出來你一個黨團一個人就推翻所有這個委員會的這個相關的討論相關的結論這不是民主國家國會該有的常態我在講誰你現在知道吧大家都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12438.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12463.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
所以這個立法院是要先改革所以立法院的這個大家都點頭對不對大家都同意嘛 全國人都同意哪有立法院委員會通過了預算然後呢不分清容容照白害不識本委員會的代表一個黨團就隨便一個提案他提案什麼他不知道就砍掉了 就刪掉了 就凍結了莫名其妙完全沒有理性 完全沒有科學完全一點都不務實 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12468.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12494.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
大家知道我在講什麼嗎好啦 這個我們繼續努力國家有問題大家要面對問題要解決問題解決問題要有智慧要有耐心好 請教幾位請教幾個第二個問題就是說我們研究主題要與時俱進就是說我過去是一個反核是反對核能那我現在慢慢接受未來新一代的核能技術 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12495.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12509.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
不要說合融核目前的合融核大概要五六十年那SMR是不是有可行我在返回核能的路上我很掙扎我說一個反對核能要返回核能我是很掙扎 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12510.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12529.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
但是如果我相信科學我相信技術如果能確保安全然後確保這個核廢料可以處理全面有共識我希望未來可以朝向SMR甚至核融合那核融合是一個先進階段的技術這個我希望說中研院能夠針對核融合有更多的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12533.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12551.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
河融河是非常特殊的它所需要的投入的经费是非常庞大的可能是中央医院整体经费的好几倍日本也这样子认识但是他们还是做啊那结合民进的力量假如全民政府有这个决心我们是早做比晚做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12552.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12575.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
玩做比不做好這個是可以討論的因為河龍河未來的發展模式可能是有一些國家發展出來之後商轉然後我們得利於它的商轉不見得是每個國家我們要投入基礎研究比如說美日他們已經有研究基礎未來他們研究基礎在應用層面上面我們可以跟他們合作這個意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12577.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12604.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
如果这样子我也同意不用花那么多的成本是我们要找我们能够贡献的部分譬如说在材料方面做合融盒跟做SMR都有材料方面的一些需要改进的地方是不是我们从材料方面找手我知道日本已经投入了二三十年一二十年我希望说可以有更多的学者能够跟日本的合融盒方面的研究机构或者专家有更多的讨论跟合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12605.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12625.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
這要看我們的方向這不一定是對我們最有利的方向這個可能是這個因為這個台灣跟中文醫院的研究的量能畢竟沒有辦法跟140億實在太少了如果加300億到500億我覺得也還不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12629.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12658.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
好 因為時間上沒有關係最後一個問題這個關於人文及社會科學主要有研究的主題我想請教研究主題是怎麼設定的我對你們研究的幾個成果我覺得非常有興趣而且非常有意思第十一項目它的研究主題是男人過多 壽命過短男性性別比例偏高對死亡率的影響這個研究有興趣 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12660.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12678.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
這個我可能要跟貴院來拜讀一下男人過多壽命過短男人多的話是不是壽命會比較短這個可能我要看一下資料這個是你們第41頁第30個研究主題研究什麼 浪拳拳算術滾桃 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12686.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12715.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
全權啊讓全權算數國會肢體衝突的個人邏輯哇 這有意思喔這跟我們有關國會肢體衝突的個人邏輯這當中一個研究題目非常有興趣非常有意思我想拜讀一下如果兩位這個學者專家我再去跟他們討論一下這個發生肢體衝突的個人邏輯還是政黨邏輯還是政治文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12716.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12744.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
還是個人的不是牽涉到邏輯講邏輯可能開始生鬧是個人品性超出的問題這兩個主題再請中央醫院師傅可以提供給我參考一下我來研究一下 拜讀一下好 謝謝好 謝謝邱志偉委員請院長回座請范雲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12752.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12776.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
有請院長謝謝召委請廖院長范委員好院長應該像是午安了吧午安好久不見了想請問院長您的任期還有多長呢饅頭快數完了還要數幾天呢可以問一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12777.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12800.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
我想用AI來算一下到明年6月21號到明年6月21號還有超過半年的時間嘛那其實還是可以做很多事對不對很多事不能做很多事不能做好 那無論如何就是說有件重要的事喔那我在您任內問了好幾次今天繼續接力啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12803.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12826.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
院長應該記得2024年的3月我當時就有質詢說我們的院士有選出的機制但是好像沒有退場的機制如果有些不適任的院士包含我跟貴院的吳瑞仁研究員我們也開記者會談到張翔2019年還有郭蔚都是我們的院士 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12827.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12855.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
他並沒有保護香港的學生那站在就是壓迫者那一方然後當然在國外的院士在美國也是我們的院士也涉及到就是被中國滲透的相關的事情那就擔心說我們的院士如果都沒有這個機制的話那我想我們是以研究為基礎所以我有請中研院去做相關的研究那我看了一下你們今年7月給我的回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12856.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12880.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
你的結論是說好像不需要有處理機制可是你給我的幾個案例中因為我當時是請問你們去研究外在威脅的民主國家的院是怎麼處理那你們給我的案例中波蘭科學院它就是有一個處理的機制有會員章程那芬蘭科學與文學院也有會員大會應章程程序決議除名 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12882.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12902.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
都有這個機制可是結論很奇怪卻覺得綜藝院好像不需要所以這跟我的解讀不太一樣所以我看到其實是有這個案例的再回來就是就算沒有受到外在威脅的民主國家我之前質詢的時候就看到英國的國家懸殊院 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12904.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12927.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
還有澳洲的科學院也都有相關的規定就是它其實是可以取消除名的如果我們不用看到這些例子的話我辦公室也找到個例子劍橋大學的也許它這個不一定要翻譯成院士它至少是他們的榮譽的fellowhonorary fellows就很明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12928.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12949.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
因為林鄭月娥偏離學術自由跟言論表達自由的原則那要給她答辯機會否則要收回她這個Honorary Fellow的這個名銜後來林鄭月娥主動退回了我想您一定知道林鄭月娥是誰那個院長知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12949.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12965.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
他就是香港的特首那在他任內發生反送中的事情然後香港的大學跟香港中文的大學的學生會都被沒收了這些事情所以有這些例子表示其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12966.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12985.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
一個榮譽的這種fellow或者是院士事實上是很多的國家都有收回的機制那劍橋大學我們辦公室還找到在章程中第幾條都有如果有重大原因理事會可以依條例規定程序撤銷之前授予的這個honorary fellow |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12985.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13001.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
可是你們針對我遇上案的時候我也繼續追問這個問題我的辦公室跟我討論說中研院好像回復有一點點自我矮化院士的職責就一直說他只是個榮譽學位無幾值 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13002.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13027.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
可是我們都知道中研院的院士有職責選舉院士名譽院士選舉評委會決定國家學術方針而且我們剛所講到幾個例子其實就是就算是純榮譽職他是一個最高的一個學術的桂冠所以我覺得如果我們對中研院在座很多都是除了您之外我們還有沒有院士在現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13030.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13044.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
沒有三個副院長都是院士都是院士謝謝大家願意接這麼多重要的工作其他很多不是院士都是研究員對不對或是副研究員我們對副研究員的規定都這麼清楚第13條 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13046.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13063.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
違反情節重大足任不適任研究工作者不予續聘或提前終止聘約我們對研究員的相關的倫理規範跟處理機制都更明確那可是為什麼對院士的這個部分就是說不願意有處理機制所以請問院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13064.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13089.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
如果真的有院士違反行為準則或明顯不適任的話那您覺得中研院有沒有必要剝奪其經過一定合理程序剝奪其院士資格呢這部分要跟委員再度澄清中研院有兩個部分一個是32個33個所跟中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13091.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13114.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
它的主要負責人是院長所以各位代表的是所跟中心我們的主要職責是做人文及科學研究指導聯絡獎勵 學術研究跟培養人才另外一部分是用中研院的名氣我們有一個中央研究院院士 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13116.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13138.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
286位院士其中大部分不是在本院任職中研院院长当任院士会议的主席所有的院士的规范是由于这个会议来决定不是由在场的各位所长来研究也不是由院长当主席一个人能够决定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13139.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13146.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那我们过去也在院士会议提出这样的讨论但是讨论结果并没有通过是这个意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13147.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13171.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我有看到你们有就是作为秘书处跟主席有给他们方案可是这个方案我觉得跟你们的研究成果是有出入的因为我看到的你们送给院士讨论几个方案这个方案也是院士组成的小组提出来的方案也不是说我们秘书处大笔一挥就写的方案因为我们不能够这样做 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13172.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13187.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
也是由院士會議選出一個小組提出的方案我們秘書只是把它變成文字院長 據說你們畢竟是秘書處秘書處送出去的合理的方案是一個還兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13190.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13204.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我們不是 我們只是指派人員所有東西都是在那個小組裡面決定的小組裡面決定在這個院會當中又在當場又改了那個文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13206.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13233.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
所以你们给院士的建议方案是要不要不是我们给的是院士那个院士自己做研究想出来的那叫什么院士行为准则研议小组自己提出来的那提出来里面有两个方案那两个方案可以跟大家讲是哪两个方案吗我们有这报告我们报告我现在这个因为它文字写得非常的精准 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13234.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13247.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
所以然后在院会当中又经过很多的讨论又在修订那最后从两岸里面选的一个我的解读不知道有没有正确我看到的两个方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13249.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13271.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
一個就是有一個處理機制一個就是沒有處理機制一個就是宣稱我們都要有一些倫理可是沒有處理機制一個宣稱我們要有哪些倫理可是有處理機制這樣兩個方案嘛 對不對是你們最後讓院士們討論的對 這不是我們提出來這院士自己提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13271.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13295.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
那院士提出来的那秘书处你们做了这么多各国的研究不是 秘书处没有参与秘书处不应该参与在场秘书处只是只是这个案例不是案例就是主管看冷气灯泡有没有量那您作为主席那个没有建议权吗因为院士很可能研究的是昆虫他也不了解我想主席的权限恐怕对立法院比我还清楚啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13296.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13319.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
主席是主持會議就算說我有意見也僅不過是一個人的意見主席在處理議事的時候也必須要保持中立性到最後兩方僵持不下的時候才能夠投下最後一票在這個情況是沒有到這個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13320.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13333.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
院長照你這個這樣的說法如果院士們我們中華民國的院士就是拒絕任何自我規範跟處理機制的話我們就拿他們沒辦法我這樣講有錯嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13336.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13354.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
不能这样子来说那应该怎么说仍然是我们既然选各国的院士都有处理机制就我们没有这不是我们这是这个团体自己的决定它自己未来的成败 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13354.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13381.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
要自己负责不是外面的人可以负责那院长我不问其他院士我问您作为我们的院长您认为应不应该比照其他的这些国家我们的最高院士也应该要有一个不适任院士的退场机制yes or no院长您个人所有这些都不是很简单的yes or no即使譬如说美国科学院他们的做法也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13382.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13398.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我們美國科學院能夠處理問題僅止於美國科學院舉辦的活動譬如說舉辦院士會議期間有人對其他人霸凌或是有性騷擾的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13398.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13420.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
这个他们处理但是假如这个院士在那个也是一种处理机制范围的大小而已对 那他处理机制而且是要从院士会议当中选出代表再来处理那当然处理机制绝对要更严谨更慎重可是有机制他们强调说假如这个院士在不是在这个NAS |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13422.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13425.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
这个举办的活动当中的一些违反规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13452.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13472.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
还有建议我不是说院士们的决定我说那个秘书长站在旁边意思是从旁观者的角度不是从院士的角度因为做研究这些秘书处不是院士他们没有权也没责也不了解这个我不是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13473.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13493.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
大家可以來研究中華民國立法院應該要有什麼行為規範我們做不到是我們自己要慚愧那可是可以研究各國的國會應該怎麼有自我規範自己的國會的行為吧就像你們可以研究我們國會裡面怎麼打架一樣嘛對不對那不代表我們會遵守可是我們要看到各國的規範啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13494.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13521.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
那个是自发性的研究假如说院里面有同仁这个是我请求院长能够来研究一下这么重要的一件事情这个应该是自发性研究都无妨因为也要尊重他们学术的我这讲的不是任何一个什么性别什么的我是针对中研院院士的相关规定因为我这个是研究这个是学术的自由这部分我想中研院自己有它的判断这个是涉及到 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13522.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13547.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
他的相關規定你的意見應該可以帶到給中研院處理的中研院他們自發性的有人會做就是沒問題主席你這樣影響我行使我的立委職權時間到了但是我要這麼要求讓院長自己回覆好不好院長拒絕的話院長自己負責我想我會等下任院長選出來之後我會跟他下任院長交接下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13547.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13556.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
好那你交接清單就有後我會算一下綜藝院做出這個要幾個月好OK謝謝謝謝范雲委員質詢那院長請回座現在請何新淳委員質詢何新淳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13568.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13588.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
何薰純委員不在請林楚英委員質詢林楚英委員林楚英委員不在請羅明財委員質詢羅明財委員羅明財委員不在請林倩琦委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13601.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13605.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
謝謝我們的主席劉昭偉我請中研院廖院長謝謝請廖院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13610.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13636.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
好 院長您好辛苦了您對於研究的客觀性還有一個行政的性質我想您應該是堅守得滿好的本席一直很尊重院士院士的同儕來解決院士的問題我想這是應該大家有一個基本的了解跟尊重所以也很感佩你當然你也辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13637.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13653.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
好 那本席今天想要跟您討論一個我想也是有很多人關心的問題但本席長久有在關注也就是在中研院的製作裡面非常清楚的博士後跟研究助理的一個聘期這個是你們有訂定 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13654.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13674.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這個部分我想說在委員會跟您聊一聊跟談一談來討論看看有沒有機會讓現在整體人才環境更有彈性然後更適合科研本身的一個節奏也就是說根據院方公佈的研聘博士後研究學者的一個作業要點 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13675.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13697.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
不是獲得這個聘請是以年度計那麼原則上是兩年一聘跟有一些學校是一樣的但是第一年聘滿以後就要依工作成果來做一些評估看是否續聘那麼兩年期如果還要再留的話也必須要重新申請那整個期程有規定最長四年或許也有一些本來你們的一些研究的考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13698.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13724.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
那麼研究助理也常常因為多半依附在年度計畫裡面呢聘任的時間很難跨年度的一個延伸那麼職癌可不可以再往上發展看在你們的單位裡面也很難判斷所以這些都是我們知道院方公開的一些規定那本席這邊從另外一個角度來看那國際間也有一些跟中研院相同等級的研究機構那像德國的Marx Planck |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13725.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13751.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
跟那個英國的Francis Crick Institute或新加坡的ASTAR都是國家級的這個科技研究發展的這個單位那麼他們多半採用二到三年期的博士後合約聘期有相對比較長一點那另外一次性的規劃也比較清楚那這樣子的一個規劃也常常被認為比較能夠維持科研的一個穩定性那我們常常看到國際的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13753.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13771.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
逐漸往中長期聘期走的這樣一個趨勢那本期這邊就很好奇中研院在制定這套年度計的聘期時是什麼樣子的考量那麼這是不是這個制度可以來支撐我們目前這個大型研究機構跟跨領域的一個合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13772.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13795.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
或者是院內有沒有在討論有沒有可能做一些調整依照現在國際間的一些趨勢本席今天想請教的是就院長您的觀察中研院在這一套人事制度上的設計最初的一個想法是什麼逐年審查的模式在實際執行上順不順利多年以來院方是不是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13796.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13816.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
認為需要依照國際競爭或者是國際的趨勢做一些調整那麼博士後和研究助理的職癌延續跟這個留任的環境目前你們是怎麼看待的那如果未來國內外的這個科研生態改變中研院是不是有可能再思考更彈性的一個聘期架構 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13818.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13839.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
本席今天提出這個問題不是說你馬上就能夠有一些答案但是是不是可以做一些思考那麼在現行制度基礎上更多的彈性比如說博士後的一些聘期的安排或研究助理的職癌規劃都能夠也讓他們有一些期待或者是可能有一些目標去走 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13839.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13864.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
那麼這樣子選擇到工研院的人也可以把這個地方做成一個他可以長期累積研究能量的一個地方本席這邊是提出這樣一個議題跟您探討那這應該是比把很尊重的這個院士用某一些不是在中研院可以的職權下去做排除我覺得應該相對是可以來做一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13866.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13881.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
研究跟讨论的吧谢谢委员的关心首先我们博士后跟研究助理虽然理论上因为他不是政编所以以约聘雇的方式但是据我了解大部分都是多年期 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13882.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13910.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
没有人说这一年就除非说真的是非常不适应我想绝大多数人都知道在众议院的博士后可以相当长的一段时间甚至之后还有叫什么你刚才讲的那什么专案我学术处长报告就是说我们有一些专案型的研究人员那这些包括研究助理或者是博士后人员都可以转到这个track去那 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13911.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13931.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
我們的博士後研究員的聘期大部分是兩年那通常都還可以再extend一次至少再多一次所以總共會有四年那也還可以再繼續下去如果說有這樣的需要的話對 看狀況那另外一個就是他可以轉到這個比較長期一點的這個專案研究人員的這個track去 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13932.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13960.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
對 那助理的話我們很多助理是出國的所以他們常常來我們中研院的研究室就只待一年之後他們就出國去深造了那我們有另外一種助理是會待比較久像我們的實驗室有些就是比較資深的這種技術人員那雖然我們的約都是一年一次但是這些人都是很長期留在我們實驗室留在中研院裡面為我們的研究貢獻的以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13961.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13982.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
好的謝謝所以本期今天提的就是說在博士後研究然後跟研究助理你們現有的現況上是不是可以在研議或者是討論看看能夠更留才的一些彈性跟可能性比如說聘期的對博士後之後聘期的一個延長那或者是研究助理大概就您這樣講他們有一些不同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13983.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14005.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
規劃那可能在中研院待的時間上因為規劃的一個選擇會有他自己的一個定案但是如果我們能夠可能針對目前現有的環境我們仿造一下國際間的一個趨勢那或許可以更彈性的然後找出更有力的一些誘因讓大家能夠留在這樣一個研究單位我想應該是很多對研究有興趣的人應該會還蠻期待的好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14009.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14037.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
那謝謝這個我們院長那最後一個小小的一直在談的這個問題本席針對原住民的這個研究還是在各單位只要是研究型的這個單位都會提也就是我們長期的研究據本席的一個觀察常常原住民都作為一個課題被研究所以常常都會被聚集在民族學的研究然後或者是人文社會的研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14037.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14063.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
但是也因為現在原鄉跟都會還有原住民本身結構的一些變化我想科研人才也是不少也希望這個我知道中研院其實在每年的活動或者是一些研究的可能性上也都有考量到原住民的這個區塊但是是不是可以鼓勵更多的原住民的作為主體或者是原住民的科研人才能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14063.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14090.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
跳脫或者是有更多在別的領域技術性或科學性的這樣研究裡面那可能在人員的這個聘用上或者是主題的一個鼓勵上可以多一些原住民作為主體的一個研究那我們希望在不久的未來我們可以看到原住民在科研或者是技術性的一個研究上能夠展露頭角那這個也請這個中研院這邊思考一下能夠有什麼樣一個推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14091.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14100.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
非常乐意非常支持这方面的建议也请委员假如有认识原住民朋友对科研有兴趣麻烦跟我们推荐 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14101.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14122.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
謝謝院長那我也請各單位就是說如果有這個原住民可以作為主題的這樣一個研究或者是目前在社會人文的東西我們可以用更科學性的一些檢視或者是調研上那我想各單位也希望中研院的各個主題能夠有多一點的這樣一個思考好謝謝謝謝林倩琪委員院長請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14129.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14144.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
我們也看到欠席委員非常的重視原住民的權益就在科研人才的培育上面今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢另外有謝榮介委員提出書面質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14146.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14172.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
關於今天的會議我們做成如下的決定報告跟答詢就已經是完畢了委員所提的書面質詢或是相關資料列入記錄並登載到公報上面對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答覆部分請相關的中研院的相關機關就儘速以書面來答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14173.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14179.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
好那包括我委員會今天的議程就處理完畢現在散會謝謝各位辛苦了 |