| IVOD_ID |
17028 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17028 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-13 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-13T08:37:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-13T13:01:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:23:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e9bd2a7f32a503ebb65ac066a97af38cb914d0d15f34b2c0269d509bf16dcd23b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-13T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、中央銀行副總裁、國家發展委員會葉主任委員俊顯、經濟部次長、勞動部次長、衛生福利部次長就「經濟成長讓全民共享：政府如何縮短所得差距暨改善相對貧窮化之對策」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查本院民進黨黨團擬具「財政收支劃分法第十六條之一未分配款運用暫行條例草案」案。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:37:17 - 13:01:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1366.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1371.786 |
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好 我們要準備開會囉 請所有的與會的官員 我們先請入座好 我們要開會了 請主任秘書報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員與主法定人數現在開始開會 請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1389.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1406.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第四會期財政委員會第七次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百二十四年十一月十二日星期三九十至十二時三十六分地點群行樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福委員等十四人列席委員洪孟凱委員等八人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1407.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1435.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
列席官員金管會主委彭金龍率所屬單位代表主席李昭吉委員昆城報告四項一 宣讀上市會議議事錄決定 議事錄確定二 邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金龍就推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施進行專題報告並被質詢經金管會彭主委提出報告後 藉由委員林德福等18人提出質詢經經金管會彭主委及相關人員予以答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1436.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1436.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
請問各位委員對上次議事錄有異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1463.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1489.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好 那我們沒有議事 議事錄確定請議事人員宣讀今日議程報告事項二 邀請財政部莊部長翠雲行政院主計總處陳主計長淑芝中央銀行副總裁國家發展委員會業主任委員俊賢經濟部次長 勞動部次長衛生福利部次長就經濟成長讓全民共享政府如何縮短所得差距即改善相對貧窮化之對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1492.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1510.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
進行專題報告並備質詢討論四項審查本月民進黨黨團擬具財政收支劃分法第16條之一未分配款運用暫行條例草案案宣讀完畢好我們先介紹在場的委員林德福委員還有鐘嘉斌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1521.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1545.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好 那與會的官員財政部部長莊翠雲綜合規劃司司長李瓊玲法制處處長姚瑩國庫署署長陳伯承負稅署署長宋秀玲管務署署長彭英偉國有財產署署長曾國基 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1549.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1578.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
財政資訊中心主任張文希行政院主計總署主計長陳淑芝地方統計推展中心執行長李嘉航基金預算處處長潘清紅綜合統計處處長蔡玉泰國事普查處處長潘寧欣中央銀行副總裁嚴忠大 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1580.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1607.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
國家發展委員會副主任委員高仙貴經濟發展處處長陳美菊人力發展處處長謝嘉怡經濟部政務次長何金昌綜合規劃師司長林碧玉副司長許嘉玲中小及新創企業署副署長戴婉容 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1609.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1635.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
產業發展署副署長陳佩莉商業發展署副署長劉雅君投資促進司檢任秘書趙立軍勞動部政務次長李建宏勞動福祉退休司司長黃維琛勞動條件及就業評等司副司長王金榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1638.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1664.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
勞動關係師專門委員許根奎綜合規劃師科長易永嘉勞動力發展署組長黃巧婷衛生福利部政務市長呂健德社會救助及社公司副市長楊雅蘭社會保險師檢論視察蔣翠萍法務部參事廖江憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1669.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1695.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
今日议程安排一审查本院民进党党团领据财政收支划分法第十六条之一未分配款运用暂行条例草案二邀请财政部庄部长翠云行政院主纪总处陈主纪长淑芝中央银行副总裁国家发展委员会业主任委员俊贤经济部次长劳动部次长 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1696.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1722.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
卫生福利部次长就经济成长让全民共享政府如何缩短所得差距及改善相对贫穷化之对策进行专题报告将先请提案党团代表说明提案要旨后再请财政部庄部长回应党团提案内容并进行专题报告那现在请民进党党团代表钟嘉斌委员说明提案要旨 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1725.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1747.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好 主席 在黨委員先進 列席的政府監事長官員會長 工作夥伴 媒體記者女士先生民主進步黨黨團鑒於立法院第十一屆第二會期第十四次會議三讀通過的《財政收支劃分法》第十六條之一的修正之統籌分配稅款的分配方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1748.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1762.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
由於計算公司自有無法分配的統籌分配稅那麼這是普通統籌那根據我們相關部會的說明以及根據法律條文的解釋財化法第16條之一明文規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1764.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1791.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
这该笔普通统筹要给地方的必须在年度开始前四个月由行政院直接核算之后交给各地方政府筹编各地方政府的预算现在已经是11月14号那么在这种情况之下不管未来我们的财政收支划分法如何修改纵使有行政院版对于整个财政收支做完整的配套规划送进本院审议 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1794.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1815.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
目前明年度這個普通統籌的345億因為現有的法令無法分配出去的事實我再強調一次接下來不論財政收支劃分法採用行政院的版本還是任何委員的提案的修正內容都不足以改變已經無法在年度開始前四個月送達給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1817.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1843.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
目前各地方政府也將明年度的預算已經編列完畢無法進行這345億的接收跟分配因此民主進步黨在這裡提出負責任的提出不要讓這345億人民辛苦的稅金無法用在人民的身上更重要的這是屬於普通統籌是要用在每個地方政府對人民的生活照顧上因此我們提出的暫行條例暫行條例因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1845.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1870.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
只要財政收支劃分法經過修正之後後年度或許就沒有這345億那這345億的內容包括給孕婦坐月子政府補助10萬給適用國民年金保險的這些被保險人國保年金月領不足8000的部分不管是哪一個公司涉算補足8000以及對於勞退字體目前部分不普及 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1871.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1883.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對於1048萬的勞工當中僅有750萬的勞工因為有雇主依法必須提撥雇主應提的勞退6%但是字體的部分這將近750萬的勞工 受雇勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1886.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1912.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
只有不到兩成有自提因此也希望從這個款項當中雲芝部分的獎勵金鼓勵這748萬的勞工受僱勞工能夠自提1到6%那麼雖然金額有限但是我們也認為應該善用每一分稅金讓這明年度的345億的普通統籌可以真正用在人民的身上儘管如此我們也希望未來能夠由政府籌措正式的裁員 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1913.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1931.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
來進行分配但是今天我們並沒有以無裁員的情況之下違反憲法的規定違反財政局的規定提出這個方案再次強調一次這個暫行條例是在已有裁員的情況之下負責任的提出分配的規定以上說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1932.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1955.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
好 謝謝總委員的說明現在請財政部莊部長回應黨團提案內容並進行專題報告因為今天與會的部會相當的多所以在莊部長報告完之後我們接下來會請主計總署還有國發會做報告其餘相關部會的報告請與會的委員來做參考並請做專案報告的官員檢要說明 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1966.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1983.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
請施召委我是不是就專題報告以及民進黨團的提案做一併的報告就一併說明好謝謝主席各位委員先進大家好今天貴委員會邀本部就有關經濟成長讓全民共享政府如何縮短所得差距以及改善相對貧窮化的對策 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1985.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2010.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
进行专题报告 仅就本部有关改善所得分配的相关政策简要做下面的说明首先是在建立合理的税制强化租税移转效果方面本部持续推动扩大税基提高税率以及防度税避税的措施包括了实施房地合一税制个人未上市贵股票交易所得记录基本所得额课税以及个人受控 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2011.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2032.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
外国企业的制度以维护租税的公平适度提高高所得者的租税负担另外我们实施房屋税差别税率2.0对非自住的住家用房屋按房屋所有人全国总持有户数以全数累进的方式来课征持有户数越多那么适用的税率就越高来抑制囤房的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2033.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2052.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
并且合理的调整中锁税的免税额扣除额以及课税急剧的金额来减轻薪资所得还有育儿家庭高龄及身障家庭的租税负担增加民众可支配所得另外在房屋租金的支出也改列为特别扣除额并提高扣除的上限此外在114年的8月14号 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2054.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2070.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
贵委员会也审查通过了长照特别扣除额每人提高为18万元如果经过修法程序完成那么民众最快可以在115年的5月申报114年度的中锁税时就可以试用 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2070.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2089.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
另外为了使小规模营业人负担合理的税负从114年1月1日起我们调高了小规模营业人销售货物劳务的营业税的起征点另外本部也每年都会订定维护租税公平重点工作计划来专案加强查核维护租税的公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2090.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2108.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那麼在照顧弱勢縮小所得差距方面呢我們以公益彩券盈餘來益助國民年金健保責任準備以及地方社福的財源並且運用回饋金來補助機關辦理弱勢族群就業服務及推展社會福利同時提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2109.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2123.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
移證稅的稅率以及菸品稅額所增加的稅收作為長照基金的裁員另外房地合一稅的稅收我們扣除中央統籌分配給地方的餘額作為長照服務以及住宅政策的支出裁員 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2124.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2144.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
另外再提供国有不动产作为新建社宅设置长照设施来缓解弱势族群居住的负担我们并配合内政部的推动包租贷款的制度我们来办理国有非公用不动产出租管理办法的修正来提升包租业的投标意愿扩大租赁住宅市场的供给 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2145.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2172.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那么为减轻国人的消费负担从110年的12月1日起那么目前是14到115年的3月31日我们调降大宗物资的进口关税还有相关的货物税以及免征进口黄小玉的营业税另外也修正了购买符合能源效率的电冰箱冷气机及除湿机购买小型汽机车及中古汽机车太旧换新的货物税的课税规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2173.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2186.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那麼對於中小企業徵僱青年及高齡本國籍的基層員工薪資方面以及調高本國籍基層員工薪資水準的薪資費用都可以從當年度的盈利事業所得額中加成減除 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2187.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2208.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
本部各項的施政將會秉持賴總統所宣示的經濟優先、民生優先、弱勢優先、青年優先的原則來兼照顧民生與弱勢強化經濟的韌性並持續合理化稅制結構提升稅收的公平以及效率來減輕中低所得者的負擔擴大社會投資促進包容性的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2209.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2220.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
来缩小贫富差距持续壮大台湾另外有关民进党团损逆剧的财政收支划分法第16条之一未分配款运用战刑条例的草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2221.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2247.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
那麼是針對新版財化法分配公式的問題所衍生的未分配款項作為發放老年生活的補助金產後照護津貼以及自願提繳獎勵金的經費上述沒有分配的款項性質上是屬於普通的統籌稅款原則上需要透過修法程序來做處理而且各委員及黨團也有相關的提案我們尊重大院審議的結果以上報告敬請各位委員指教 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2249.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2256.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
好 谢谢庄部长的报告接下来请行政院主计总促成主计长进行专题报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2262.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2283.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
主席各位委員女士先生今天應邀貴席對於經濟成長讓全民共享政府如果縮短所得差距還有改善相對貧窮化的對策提出專庭報告僅就本總署最近十年的針對我國經濟成長所得分配狀態還有政府所得從分配效果檢要報告如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2284.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2304.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
近年來我們國內的一個經濟從110年的經濟成長達6.72111年 112年間因為全球產業鏈的一個調整成長晃緩但隨即在人工智慧AI高速運算等所需加速擴大的一個帶動下近年國內的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2306.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2330.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
產業鏈更加壯大所以113年經濟成長率回到4.84那114年前三季雖然因為關稅措施增添全球貿易不確定性但是成長率仍然分別成長5.45 8.01還有7.04那政府對改善所得分配的一個努力和成果所得分配的一個衡量方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2332.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2354.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我們主計總處就是運業按照家庭收支的一個調查按國際常用的衡量所得分配的指標花布基尼敘述所得佔比還有五分會差距倍數來做一個衡量那我國所得分配的一個概況近十年來我國整體家庭所得明顯提升每戶可支配所得由103年的83萬到 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2357.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2372.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
13年的98.5萬 增加18.6每人的一個所得綜會數由103年26萬提高到35.6萬 增加36.8那家庭可自備所得我們如果按五分位來分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2373.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2393.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
它的差距倍數是103年是6.05有擴大到113年的6.14那集體係數也由0.336略增到0.341但是因為以每戶計算容易受戶內人數消長的影響所以國際間都是以每人的單位來衡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2393.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2398.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我國每人差距有103.98降到113年的3.92吉尼係數也103年的0.282降到113年的0.277我表一是我國所得分配的一個請請請參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2410.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2426.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
政府也持續推動社會福利措施和落實照顧勞工基層的一個措施主要是調漲基本工資還有提升低所得家庭收入等措施來使經濟成果能夠讓全民來共享 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2427.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2450.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
所以政府在加強社會福利措施和調整工資方面主要是第一個就是發放中低收入生活津貼中低收入老人生活津貼等中央政府預算的編列從一百零三年的四千兩百一十八億到一百一十四年的八千零六十一億每一年平均增加六點一百分比 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2450.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2456.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
近年來也是持續調上基本工資由103年的19273調到每公時115元調整到114年的28590元和公時190元調高幅度達到48.3和65.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2474.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2492.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那这里面就是社会支出的和基本工资的一个调整情形是表二请参阅那我们如果是以112年度按时等分的第一个分会第二个分会来看比102年增加30.4所以并没有所谓说 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2493.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2518.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
集中在高位的一个情形所以这个部分中位数的政府低位数的政府明显有增加请参考十分位分界点全年总薪资的一个表第四个是政府所得重分配的一个效果我们总共有推动各项振兴方案还有社务措施还有调上基本工资这些等等来提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2519.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2526.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
低所得家庭的一个收入所以移转支出的部分由原来的五分位介于7.2到7.63降低到 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2530.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2553.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
6.05到6.15那從分被效果達到1.16到1.48被效果選住那我國貧窮率的說明OECD定義的貧窮率是每人可支配所得50%為貧窮限那這個包括當年度因為我們家庭收支調查僅包括當年度經常性所得沒有包括歷年的一個財務累積所以如果說以 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2555.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2580.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
以我家庭受知的所得來評估並沒有辦法顯現真正的貧窮那我國社會救助法是明定最低生活率標準是14220這個部分是以家庭受知平均每人每月可支配所得的綜會數60%來定制所以雖然說我們社會救助法對家庭所得在 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2582.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2598.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
低收入只有1.13還有中低收入是1.14兩個合起來大概2點多所以這個部分但是因為我們本身是沒有把它放入所謂的一個財務的一個計算所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2599.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2627.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
整个是有一点整个是有偏低那结于我们国内经济成长表现量也会使经济成长能够让全民共享政府持续推动社会福利措施和调高基本工资照顾弱势族群有效提升所得家庭收入减缓所得差距扩大趋势以上报告请请各位委员指教谢谢好谢谢陈主席长的报告接下来我们请国发会高副主委先贵进行专题报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2632.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2648.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
主席 各位委員先進 大家好今天陳蒙國委員會邀請本會列席那國發會緊就今日的議程進行報告首先說明我國的所得分配的現況那根據主計處的推估我國歷年的經濟係數維持在0.35以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2651.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2669.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
低於國際的警戒線0.4那就五分位的每戶每人可支配的所得差距來說113年我們大概是6.14比我們的亞林還有英美都來得好其中政府的移轉收支發揮了所得從分配的效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2670.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2697.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
基於其實薪資是構成我國所得的重要項目我們可以發現近年來我國的薪資其實上是持續的穩健成長今年受惠於AI產業的發展我們預估今年的經濟成長率渴望突破5如果扣除了物價的因素以後實質的薪資可以成長到達1.87%顯示我們的經濟成果已經逐漸反映在民眾所得的提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2698.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2706.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
政府會持續的縮減所得的差距行政團隊會由四個面向著手一個是社福、租稅、產業還有薪資採多元併進的方式由各部會擬定具體的措施來落實推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2714.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2729.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
第一個在強化全營的社會照顧裡面我想衛福部會跟相關部會會持續推動各項的脫貧措施包括完善低收入戶的補助等等的然後來保障弱勢族群的基本生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2730.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2754.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
同时政府会持续推动少子女化对策2.0还有长照3.0等计划来解清家庭的照顾负担第三个内政部也会持续的推动百万住户的家庭支持的措施加速建设社宅同时也115年也编列了预算推动婚育宅来满足国人的居住需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2755.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2780.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
第二個是財政部會進行減輕民眾租稅負擔的各項措施剛才莊部長已經報告過了我這部分就不再重述第三個是行政團隊會推動多元產業的創新發展第一個包括我們將在五大信賴產業基礎上推動AI新十大建設其中最重要的就是希望把百工百業導入AI促進 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2782.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2801.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
百萬家產業的業者的AI轉型然後提升它的附加價值第二個就是經濟部也在推動中小企業多元的振興發展方案然後協助中小企業落實數位經營及雙軸的轉型然後讓它可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2803.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2813.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
順利的轉型升級那第三個呢是交通部還有金管會會分別推動觀光的新品牌的3.0還有藉由會展經濟等帶動我們國內的這些國民旅遊還有國際觀光的發展然後來活絡國內的消費 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2821.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2848.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
然后亚洲资产管理中心的推动也会让我们的金融业重新的振兴第四个是我们会推动我们本会还有相关部会会推动六大区域产业及生活圈依据各地的特色跟资源形成六大区域的定位同时搭配在各县市推动生活圈的各项重要建设我们希望透过这个措施可以推动 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2849.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2866.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
台灣全面的均衡發展縮小城鄉的差距提高人均的GDP第四個我們會希望能鼓勵企業提升薪資我想金發會已經提出了三大面向跟八大的創新措施透過薪資的透明化 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2866.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2877.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
政府作為加薪的引擎以及修法提供企業加薪的租稅優惠等等我們希望可以鼓勵企業提高薪資同時我們政府已經明年將連續十年來調降最低的工資希望這會有助於提高基層的勞工所的保障其生活水準跟購買力 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2893.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2915.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那結餘部分呢我們近年來我們經濟成長量力實質薪資持續成長那我想行政團會會持續由我剛剛說的四個面向多元並進的方式致力打造企業與勞工共榮成長與分配並進的永續發展模式實現全民共享的繁榮願景以上報告敬請指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2917.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2941.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
好 谢谢高副组委的报告因为今天与会的人员比较多所以请大家在谈话的时候尽量压低声音好 现在开始询答先做以下的宣告一 每位出席委员发言时间八分钟必要时的延长两分钟每位列席委员发言时间五分钟二 今日上午十点截止发言登记三 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2942.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2952.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
本次會議委員若有相關修正動議請敬送主席台 必便議事人員整理現已登記順序 請登記第一位林德福委員質詢謝謝主席 與會的各部會首長是不是請那個主計長 陳主計長好 請主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2975.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3002.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
委員好 署議長我想台青院上週二公布最新GDP預測5.94%比先前評估增加了差不多將近3個百分點那院長張建一表示今年出口實際情況比預估的多了非常多再加上行政院普發現金1萬元正式上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3003.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3015.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
讓民間消費對GDP貢獻再創造超過0.3%到0.4%估計能帶動今年經濟成長率有機會突破6%那我請問主計長你認為今年經濟成長率有沒有突破6%的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3024.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3045.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
是 我們本來是初估差不多5但是因為它第三季我們本來是才估1.72它成長到7.64所以這個部分我們現在就是說應該是要做調整那我們大概在11月的部分11月底的時候有沒有辦法你認為有沒有辦法突破6% |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3047.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3055.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
應該是比較趨近我們的估計是5.5%以上5.5%以上主席長展望主計總數2026年經濟成長率一估值就是2.81%那我請問主席長預測明年經濟成長萎縮超過50%換句話說差不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3071.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3078.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
差不多50%而已那你認為目前衰退的船產業明年有沒有好轉的可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3079.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3108.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
因為傳產它並沒有全部衰退它只是它成長的比較少而已跟AI整個一個比起來它是成長的比較少但是因為你為什麼我們明年會比較才2.81那主要是因為前面的基期就比較高比較高所以這個部分明年的部分相對的就會比較低這是以往的一個趨勢就是這樣但是並不是說我們的狀況就是不好那你認為它依然還是都有投資都有在增加並不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3108.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3137.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那你認為那些船產業有沒有辦法脫離谷底有沒有辦法因為明年如果關稅它整個一個那個關稅的一個政策它整個透明整個明瞭以後那整個船廠的方面它這個方面它比較好能夠做因應而且我們也有做一個那個所謂特別預算的一個資源所以這個部分呢船廠這部分也可以得到很大的協助所以這個部分也應該是對於整個GDP會有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3137.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3166.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
因為那些船產業幾乎可以說他們以目前整個狀況你沒有辦法跟鄰近國家包括韓國日本他們來競爭對不對因為我們第一個人家15%我們20%在疊加他們沒有疊加我們又疊加幾乎沒有競爭力所以說很多人現在這些傳統產業包括水五金包括有一些工具區等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3168.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3187.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
這個幾乎現在很多都失業就是無薪假等等我認為這個很嚴重但是我們經濟部的一些補助的措施都已經有整個那個補助當然是短暫的你要是說以長期來看這些我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3192.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3221.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
整個關稅的疊加包括關稅比人家高根本一點競爭力都沒有那多少當然就會影響到傳產的惡化也會影響到我們整個經濟的成長以目前整個出口暢旺是電子產業已經到了面臨反轉向下的時刻所以說才會拖累整個經濟成長的預估你再看一看 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3222.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3239.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
並不是說拖累而是說它本身積極墊高的必然現象所以這個部分以整個狀況來看是穩定的在成長所以並沒有說狀況非常的不好主計長因為從英國央行對科技股 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3240.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3266.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
破裂風險的提醒再到國際貨幣基金IMF對整個金融環境收緊的一個警示全球整個金融市場與科技圈的正圍繞著AI投資泡沫這個展開密集的討論那主席長經濟部長 龔部長 龔明星曾表示說他預期AI龍井 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3267.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3282.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
應可持續三到四年沒有AI泡沫的餘力那我請問處紀長針對工部長表示對AI泡沫與火的看法你是贊同還是保留或者是有不同的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3283.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3298.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
一般現在如果說整個我們從獲利穩健還有整個一個科技巨頭來做主導的一個狀況下它實際運用價值已經有提高還有它算力的需求所以它會持續它整個一個獲利還是會持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3298.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3314.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
所以說主席長是樂觀看待就對了主席長你認為台灣在全球AI領域是站在什麼地位能夠足以讓工部長敢說出和國際各調研機構不同的論調 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3315.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3343.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
事實上我們的地位還是真的是算頂尖我覺得這個趨勢發展的趨勢整個是很好的一個趨勢所以說主席長還是非常非常的樂觀當然主席長今天的議題是經濟成長讓全民共享但是所謂全民共享的背後要如何分配並創造出公平的一個共享模式恐怕是一大難題 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3344.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3359.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
光是普發一萬元的政策我想朝野就對立沒有共識更不用說對政府提出縮短所得差距及改善相對貧窮化的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3360.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3370.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
能夠有高度期待的共識主計長 去年4月底主計總署公布家庭財富分配統計結果顯示110年時每戶的家庭平均財富是1638萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3377.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3403.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
而前百分之二十的家庭平均財富是五千一百三十三萬元後面的百分之二十家庭平均財富只有七十七萬差距高達六十六點九倍我請問主計長過了三年多你認為家戶的這些貧富差距應該是縮小還是更大 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3404.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3427.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
因為我們會利用所謂的移轉支出等於是說政府會做一些的社會福利還有租稅的一個措施來減短 來縮短整個的家庭所的 家戶所的差短目前來講 當初因為我們110年度的家庭因為家庭的貧富的 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3430.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3458.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
数据它跟当初三十年前它的是有差距的是它两个调查的方式是不一样所以不能用去做比较但是我们跟其他的相关的国外的比较我们的相关的数据还是也是不错的我们如果我们是低于澳洲也低于英国 法国 日本和德国那这个本身显示我们的一个财务分配是比较平均的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3459.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3478.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
事實上中產階級消失是台灣社會當前一項嚴峻的議題主要的原因包括薪資停滯通膨壓力產業結構失衡以及財富分配不均等那我請問主席你認為透過政府政策能夠讓消失的中產階級重見光明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3481.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3500.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我要跟委員報告我們中產階級並沒有消失整個一個它還是呈現成長的一個狀態所以這個部分我們本身尤其像中低收入第一級第二級的這個部分它成長也是更大它成長大於全體的一個成長所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3501.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3525.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
他只是说他的成长速度不如第五分会的那么高但是他还是继续成长所以这个部分我要跟委员说明了主席长因为面对AI时代的新工业革命产业结构恐怕又要大洗牌那我请问主席长政府能够保证贫富差距能够缩小改善还是依旧 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3526.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3545.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
只能如同储求相对一般继续上演AI世代屏幕差距拉大的戏码你认为呢事实上我们的社会支出从原来的4000多亿到成长到现在的8000多亿政府是尽力在做希望能够缩短这整个的一个屏幕差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3546.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3564.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
所以這個本身部分譬如說像薪資的一個調整薪資的透明化包括鼓勵那個相關的一個企業能夠加薪這部分種種的作為我們都是在提升相關的一個貧富的一個差距然後來刺激我們的經濟的一個成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3567.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3591.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
想要縮小貧富差距可以透過稅制改革增加社會福利支出提升教育機會以及改善就業以薪資結構等多種的政策和措施來實現那我請問這個主席長就以往政府推動這些政策措施的經驗你認為現階段政府有沒有突破困難度 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3592.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3608.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
的能力換句話說要推動這些政策包括財政部長都一樣政府就必須要克服這個既得利益的阻力雖然政策方針確定但是從政策執行的數十年 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3610.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3626.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
來發展結果能趨向極端貧富差距的走勢可以看出如果不是政策失靈不然就是政策取高合寡導致整個貧富差距不但沒有緩和甚至於還持續的惡化 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3627.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3644.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
那我請問包括財政部莊部長這要解決貧富差距的問題政府是不是已經面臨如同處求相對的這個境地部長你也上啊把最後一題做說明跟委員報告對於有關所得差距的部分其實政府持續的努力第一個我們對於高所得高資產者 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3656.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3685.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
有關在稅制的部分去做合理的一個增加負擔那第二部分對於譬如說育兒家庭有家庭有身障或者有長照需要的話還有免稅有標準扣除在稅制的部分就減輕中低收入家庭的一個租稅負擔我想這個部分持續都在努力因為不要讓它持續這個持續的這個貧富差距越大越大我認為這個是很重要的那政府也透過移轉支出來協助 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3687.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3704.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
謝謝林委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員主席麻煩請主計長請主計長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3716.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3735.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
非常早 您的報告早上我有研讀看了現在的問題是社會上的信任度不夠你跟他講說台灣這些年的基尼係數如果抽掉戶數上面因為戶有人數的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3737.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3761.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
照世界的標準用人來計算我們都在很安全的範圍內他就說他不會去接受的因為他已經先有答案了他就說講得最極端的有一些人認為台灣民不聊生你還跟他講說我們的經濟發展不錯然後他就跟你講說中產階級要消滅了有的人不是在對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3762.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3779.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
他是先有結論然後才要來跟你講一些真的到最後講不過你的時候說你都引用冰冷的數字啊你不去顧個別人的這個感受啦但是因為我們是討論政策我們不是在討論個人的救濟啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3781.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3802.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
所以我是要讓你了解要有信心還是要照回答你講的他也聽不懂照我繼續念就他的結論就繼續講這樣你了解嗎但是我們該做的事情要做的是我覺得有一樣東西就是說如果你一定要用這個收入的十等分或五等分去分那當然就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3803.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3826.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
最高跟最低之間就是會有倍數的差距是一定有的但是如果你想想看如果是整體都能夠拉伸的話整體都能夠拉伸的話當然他的希望是說那個高所得的這個拉伸的比例要降低然後低所得拉伸的比例要升高有逐漸在做到如果從你的報告上面來看但是事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3827.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3847.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
有既定看法的人是不會接受你這樣的講法你覺得呢是 謝謝委員指導但是事實上我們經濟成長是優於亞洲四小龍整個狀況是很好包括我們整個GDP的一個成長都是很好然後我們的一個貧富差距其實在整個裡面算平均的並不是很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3848.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3877.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
如果你从好的方面来讲台湾的经济成长率高然后CPI就是物价指数上涨的比例也是低这样就是一点多那一点多其实是符合全世界2%的CPI在2%以内这个1%以上2%以内是一个最好的这个区间低于1%国际的学者就认为就是通缩了有通缩的危险了那高于2%就被认为是这个通货膨胀那我们台湾 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3878.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3900.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
央行在處理匯率也很嚴謹然後大家也很保守所以說控制在一點多然後政府對於那種大宗物資如果國際之間的價格有漲有在很大的變動說我們台灣這邊就是用一些稅收的方式減免他的稅讓他能夠讓這個大宗物資不要漲價這個政策是都有對應 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3902.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3926.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
但是在這樣的狀況下我們先不講說我們的國民購買力是人家的幾倍光今年預估的國民所得GDP相對比起來GDP就已經勝過韓國跟日本那日本原因當然是因為日幣大幅貶值的原因那我們先不管日本那個原因我們就贏過韓國這樣子也能夠講成說台灣民不聊生 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3927.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3955.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
這我也不知道怎麼跟他對話因為你如果跟他講說我看到的數字不是這樣他就跟你講說沒有沒有你這個冰冷的數字你要沒有溫度所以你們講這個都不可信第二個就是明明我們的薪資成長跟我們的最低工資的成長比CPI還要高然後他就跟你講說沒有喔收入在萎縮喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3957.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3976.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我假設我的薪資成長是2然後我的CPI是1.5我實質的收入當然是指總數相來看還是有0.5的增加他也不跟你講他說沒有 就是所得都在萎縮大家都在貧窮化都活不下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3977.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3996.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
跟委員報告我們每次公布的時候都有把那個平均的薪資扣掉實質就是CPI的一個成長的因素然後去算然後平均的一個那個所得然後也有去算每人的然後所以我們扣除以後每人薪資都實際成長是1.87% |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3999.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4020.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
是啦 但是你這1.87人家跟你說這數字我個人沒有漲薪水所以我扣掉CPI之後我的薪水是在萎縮就是從個人的角度來看事情他永遠有話講但是如果你從總體的整體的數字來看事實上成長然後他就開始跟你講說你那個是冰冷的數字我感受不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4021.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4032.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
但是我們中位數也是增加的你從統計數字跟他講道理他就跟你講說我不要跟你講這個我要跟你講我的感受所以我是覺得這個事情的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4036.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4060.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
這很不容易啦但是要繼續大刀闊斧的往這方面能夠來進步這是更好啦是 我們提供數據給相關的部會來做參考很困難啦 因為為什麼這個最低工資的上漲都只有3%多 4%多因為要考量到經營者啊他一方面講說啊 經營者這個環境很不好啊我們的這個關稅比人家高啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4061.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4078.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
同時他就要求說你薪資要給人家賬我也不知道就以經營者的角度要怎麼講經營者說那我經營者怎麼辦經營者總是企業要能夠賺錢才有辦法維持企業的存在企業的存在才有辦法提供工作機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4079.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4094.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
是我們要鼓勵企業加薪但是企業遭遇到譬如相關的一個困難譬如說關稅的一個問題這個部分我們要來協助所以這個部分我在經濟部這方面也編列相當多的一個預算包括特別預算回過頭來一個感想就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4098.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4124.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
從自己的角度來看事情對自己都要最好對自己政府的照顧永遠不夠那都是需要大政府但當政府的管理或是處罰行政處罰到他的身上說你這個政府這是亂七八糟的你不要來管我所以我是覺得基本上人都有這樣子的特性講到利益的時候要極大化講到不好的地方的時候你都不要來給我管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4126.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4133.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
賺錢自己本事高 賠錢政府害的簡單來講就是這樣 又回到這一句你請回座 請財政部長我也好部長 我要跟你請教你知不知道加熱菸現在已經有兩家可以販售一家是美國公司 一家是日本公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4151.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4170.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
健康風險評估 衛福部已經通過兩家大概有14個品項加熱菸通過了但大概都是屬於專人進口國內的產製部分還沒有通過那菸菌跟菸碎的問題大概是可以得到一部分的紓解因為以前有一些吸脂菸的如果替代成加熱菸你加熱菸不讓它合法化你菸菌跟菸碎是漏掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4173.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4202.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那現在既然已經有合法的那價格會比這個原來走私的還要低所以大家基本上我認為大部分會去走合法的路當那個加熱菸經過健康風險評估可以在正常的管道上面去銷售的話那讓稅讓國家納入管理然後稅也可以按正常的來收取我覺得這是一個好的這個是你對整個國家的這個稅捐的部分那你底下有一間菸酒公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4203.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4212.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
你的菸酒公司設備什麼都已經準備好了現在他就是在跟國健署在申請這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4214.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4235.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
核准嘛就你知道你的菸酒公司遇到的困境你了解嗎了解我們菸酒公司董事長也多次的反應那當然必須要符合衛福部讓他通過健康風險評估我們會積極的去跟衛福部溝通你有跟衛福部溝通嗎有的我們有跟他最近審核多不合理你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4236.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4264.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
對於你們菸酒公司多不合理他說你們菸酒公司不能夠拿外國這個加熱菸的這些資料健康風險評估來橋接啦所以要用他自己的產品去做死人體實驗那沒有得到核准你菸酒公司哪來的產品啊那也沒辦法實驗嘛這顯然不可行嘛那你們財政部為什麼不跟衛福部反應說你這個這麼離譜呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4268.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4291.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們也多次有跟衛福部去溝通全人類台灣的人吸加熱菸跟外國人吸加熱菸在健康風險名顧上面是不一樣的嗎那同樣在審查的程序上前年說可以可以這樣子橋接過來那對自己菸酒公司我們供股的那今年跟他講說不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4293.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4321.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
那我想請問現在核准那兩家的這個資料是外國來的還是在台灣做人體實驗的外國他們都是從外國對啊那為什麼進口商可以用外國的這個健康的這一些的指標這一些的實驗然後來做報告就可以通過台灣的廠商而且是公股的這不是私人全部都是公家的百分之百公股他說不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4323.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4350.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這樣子的審查標準你財政部能接受嗎我想這個部分我們會再進一步跟衛福部再來做溝通你不趕快溝通的話我要再往上去衝了我就跟你講我在這邊為了這個事情我已經講過很多次了這是為了公家的利益跟個人私人無關如果你想想看只有日本跟美國的廠商可以在台灣賣加熱煙那台灣的煙酒公司要做加熱煙被這樣子的方式刁難這樣子給它拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4353.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4370.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
兩三年後市場都被佔滿了那台灣煙酒公司台灣的煙公司要賣給誰還是乾脆煙酒公司關起來算了應該要有一個合理的標準來做審核對啊 那你遭遇到不合理的標準你要據理力爭啊不是說那是衛福部的煙火讓衛福部去處理啊不會 是好不好 加油謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝委員接下來我們請賴世保委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4391.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4399.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請財政部的莊部長主計總署的主計長還有莊銀朗的言副總裁一起好不好三個一起請莊部長 陳主計長 言副總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4409.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4422.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
委員好好 三位長官好先請教兩位兩位女士這個今天有個題目統籌分配稅款所以有剩345億來分配可是實際的情況我們很快就刪除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4427.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4433.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
離島條例要改這個財務法16條是3離島要支付這個2.5%就220億所以實際上只有剩125億啦沒有345億啦我這樣算法對吧那個部長這樣講對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4449.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4469.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
委員因為16條之一除了離島當然也有本島這個整個分母的問題所以會有345億沒有辦法做分配是這樣子但離島221億是法定的2.5%如果用計算如果你把它變成分母把它調整的話它大概就是221億吧這個對吧本島是225 離島是12119 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4479.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4495.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
你倒要再給他220億啦120120還220120可是我們算都是220你們算每次就算的跟我們不一樣奇怪咧 你把我少算這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4497.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4502.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
跑啦 就算你對好不好 也沒有345啊 也剩下200多而已啊 對不對這個我比較關心的 卓院長不斷的說年底要送出行政院盤的財劃法 請問財政部你送給行政院沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4519.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4539.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
財政部已經開過試試會那都有大的架構什麼時候可以送給財政部行政院什麼時候我們近期送什麼時候可以送什麼時候問你問什麼時候可以送近期已經送了已經送了但是因為那個內容還需要再進一步整理我知道內容我沒問你你已經送了好 已經送了那我就問主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4547.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4567.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
你剛才這樣說我嘴角轉破 說我這家你讚這樣喔我讚就我讚 我請問你現在台灣的工資 平均工資多少錢平均薪資平均薪資大概是四萬七左右平均薪資四萬八吧 四萬一講得這麼客氣四萬七八啦平均多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4575.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4589.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
四萬八啦 不是四萬一啦喔四萬八啦 我跟你講啦喔但是今天就主席英明排這個題目三分之二領不到這個錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4591.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4618.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
所以你要看的不是平均薪資你的薪資一年一千萬啊金控 董事長 總經理你不要急 你不要急喔要看中位數中位數只有三萬多而已啊三萬多啦所以沒有想像過 歐華站 杜華站三萬多其實辛苦啦還是辛苦啦所以貧富差距非常的嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4619.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4624.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
非常嚴重非常嚴重靠什麼呢最好的方式就是稅制了來 我們看第二張那個 來 莊部長我幫你統計了一下黃帝和一稅減少了133億代表在央行副總裁你就有角色那個主計程可以清回的 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4642.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4650.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那個央行副總裁這個角色然後黃帝河一歲少了133億曾教授少了5.5%但是以左稅佔角增加了4800多億這什麼意思我們的產業很賺錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4660.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4680.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
銀索稅賺很多 站腳但是呢 集中在AI概念股你看股票市場就好啦大部分漲的都是AI概念股啊非AI概念股跌的都比漲的多啊很清楚來看啦 對不對所以今年到現在為止是負的馬拉斯0.2我就先問副總裁先問副總裁 來來來 副總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4687.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4695.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這邊那個數據做一個說明銀索稅的佔角是4881增加715不是增加增加715總數是4881增加700多 總數4881也是很多啦 因為其他都減少來 副總裁 我就問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4711.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4722.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
黃帝合一減少了133億代表房地產不好嘛這時候你的第七波的信用廣至有沒有考慮要鬆短一點 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4725.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4751.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
報告委員我們在上一次理事會的時候我們也的確做了一點點調整怎麼調整我們每一次的理事會之前我們都會去檢討當前的房地產政策我們在下一次理事會我們會做一些內部的檢討所以進一步的鬆綁是可以預期的是不是這個我們要等理事會開會才知道上一次有沒有鬆綁一定 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4753.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4769.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
上一次開會有沒有鬆綁一點上一次有啊上一次我們對那個我們的換屋的那個從一年改成18個月然後我們放寬了一些確定不會有第八波的信用管制的是不是這個都是由理事會來決定目前沒有嘛那我再回到財政部的莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4778.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4794.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
健保署在衛福部打你的主意啊說鼓勵加租金加利息你知道有人現金鼓勵最多的領多少錢你知道嗎不要講名字幾十億吧有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4800.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4807.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
這個個人的資料我們沒有個人資料我沒有講名字啊我所知道是幾十億啊幾十年前就幾十億啊現在更多啦一個人就領幾十億的現金鼓勵要課要課他們啊你不要課這個純鼓足而且他憑什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4823.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4827.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
衛福部憑什麼要求你把這個稅的資料給他做一個統計 攬傘部長啊你聽好以後喔如果這個要做的話等於他成立第二個國稅局喔健保署就變成第二個國稅局喔因為你要把股利加租金加利息要大於兩萬 這要攬傘現在的補充法會是救援課稅沒問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4852.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4857.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
對不對 但是你這個Lamsam就要經過你啊你睡 你就要給這個衛福部啊他侵占你地盤啊 你要講話啊你要反對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4865.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4889.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
你有沒有反對我問你你有沒有反對報告有關補充保費這個部分目前來說會是暫緩然後衛福部會重新再來思考他要跟你討論啊對不對你要反對啊當然會有跨部會來做一個討論因為這個我再講一遍這是三個把它加總年度加總這只有你才有的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4891.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4895.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
他怎麼可以來佔你的地盤呢 他變成第二個國稅局啊對不對 你地盤變成瓜分了 你都不知道對不對 你要大聲講話 拍桌說反對 不可以這樣子除非修法 修法當然可以 對不對我們是反對對純苦族這樣子的剝削因為他已經教了嘛 現在目前已經教了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4916.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4923.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
目前已經交了 你還進一步交 這沒有道理好 這個你可以請回了我們問副總裁 那個部長先不要走來來來 部長等一下 兩位一起聽說台美關稅確定了 差不多確定了但是呢 美國要求我們投資3500億美金到5000億美金副總裁 這會不會動到我們的外匯存底 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4946.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4952.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那個報告委員因為整個案子我們我們也還沒有定案所以我也不知道最後那你如果要投資美國會不會動到外匯存底我就問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4958.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4978.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
外匯存底是央行自己在保管運用的那會不會影響其實是我們在看我們在外匯市場有沒有做很大的調節要看當時候的外匯市場的供需情況吧今天我是廠商我要投資美國我用台幣跟你買美金就動到你的外匯存底難道不是嗎那要看央行有沒有進去干預你們會進去干預嗎我們看市場的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4985.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5003.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這個部長啊這個你有沒有聽說這個確定了要投資3千億美金的物權我想這個有關台美關稅談判我們有行政院的經貿談判小組在持續進行那最後的一個結果我想在適當時機談判團隊會外說3千億美金是什麼概念就10兆新台幣以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5006.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5025.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
然後我們的size比韓國也不如 比日本也不如為什麼我們投資金額要比照韓國跟日本日本五千五 韓國三千五為什麼要比照這樣子 太敲得起我們了最後一個小問題 問一下副總裁 你再講一下現在你的外匯存底的配置有沒有大幅的改變 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5034.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5039.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
你說外匯存底的改變有沒有大幅改變因為我們主要持有的還是以美元計價的為主有八成接近八成差不多八成有沒有買一點黃金跟加密貨幣目前沒有目前都沒有買我跟你數字你看全世界其他國家的央行 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5058.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5078.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
平均的配置美元46黃金20%歐元小於20%那個報告委員那個其實你的資料是平均的其實各國央行的差異還很大的什麼意思各國央行持有譬如說美國德國義大利他們的傳統的國家他持有 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5079.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5088.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
環境的數量是以台灣來講持有美元的資產美元計價的資產大概全世界第一我們占八成全世界第一 對吧比較高對啊 就全世界第一你贊成嗎好了你就同意我這一點就好了好 謝謝賴委員接下來我們請郭國文委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5112.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5118.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
主席 有請主計長跟勞動部李建宏次長請主計長 勞動部次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5130.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5151.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
委員好主席長好 主席長我上一次的時候根據國庫調查的貧富差距的時候是從資產面的時候來就教於您過去30年最後面收入20%的家庭其實財富不增反減今天我想說從所得面所得面的部分特別把D4到D7的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5152.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5177.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這個中位數這個上下的比例的這個部分把它匡列出來你去看實質的成長率這10年而且是到2023的統計的部分它的這個成長比例都是在個位數而是最少的那相對而言D1 D2 D2 D3的部分的話因為有基本新知識的架構把它撐起但是呢 D8 D9那因為高所得產業的這個紅利 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5178.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5205.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那現階段的最大的問題就是D10到D7的部分要怎麼處理那過往政府所處理的大概是透過這個稅免的部分來稅減的部分來減少負擔但是最關鍵的部分應該還是在於中低這個增加收入否則的話這10年來他們所增加的這個部分只有到3到6%而且如果還在像CPI的話恐怕實質增加財富非常有限吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5207.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5235.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
它是事實上是差不多平均其實都是差不多4%以上這是來自於您所以說這是一個很大的問題我是覺得從一個從一個現在今天我們要討論這個M化兩極化的社會的情況底下要怎麼面對怎麼處理就出現一個很大的問題最近當然政府有處理中小企業的部分的這個抵稅的修法成效也都還沒出現那勞動部最近有一個這個雇主加薪企圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5236.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5254.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
那個政策目標是想要幫本勞加薪那個我請次長理事一下 理事你這個增加移工的額度可以增加的部分那最多額度也是大概10%然後預估要4年才會大概有受惠的勞工朋友大概只有20萬對不對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5257.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5278.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
这个案子这个利益是良善但是相对而言效果相对有限你也知道受雇者的比例相当高 政策如果是这样子的话我是不是有一个可能性因为我们就案基金其实过去长期以来一直受到相当程度的诟病然后经常出现的是重复补助或例行补助那也没有达到一定的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5279.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5301.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
那救安基金的部分之前我在救教育会部的时候就有特别提到我再举一个例子好了最近健保费有在收取一部分的保费去奖励一些医护人员提高薪资我请李次能不能回去了解一下也就是从收费过来的部分给从业人员多一点薪资然后防止他的流动率 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5303.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5327.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
增加這個就職的比例另外一個部分有沒有可能透過救安基金的方式來因為引進移工相關的這個費用當中來比照辦理提出這個政策的可能性市長你的看法你是說拿救安基金來做什麼請問就是類似像保費的部分來刺激 鼓勵 雇主來增加薪資的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5329.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5348.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
你說拿救安基金的錢出來有沒有一個鼓勵的方式就比較保費的方式補助 雇主什麼用什麼方式都可以就是說至少你不要重複老是在補助一些特定團體 例行性的團體把這個救安基金達到另一種薪資提升達到就業安定的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5349.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5377.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
跟委員說明那個接班基金依照法律規定它是要協助以促進跟協助本國國民失業國民就業為主要目標那所以如果跟這個目標比較無關的話這個照現在的規定是有困難的有一個方向上一個是促進就業嘛那防止離職嘛就是防止流動這種雙向的思考當中有沒有一個擴大解釋的可能是不是請理事回去思考一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5378.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5388.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
只要能夠達到這個目標好不好 是麻煩理事回去思考一下另外一個部分我想要請財政部跟衛福部兩位請衛福部理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5395.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5414.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
委員好部長剛剛在討論這一個有關於補充保費的部分補充保費的部分就我這邊相關的數據當中理事也在這邊就價因為最近爭議非常的大而且對一些純穀族跟小蜘族的部分相對剝削感 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5416.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5444.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
其实就这一个卫福部当中的第二项当中就有提到说如果把这1000万的天花板打开到5000万的部分的话就可以增加6亿的补充保费的来源事实上本席去了解一下这两年补充保费的部分大概鼓励的部分其实已经有占两成但是就上市柜的股息的发放去年一整年大概有2.3兆 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5446.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5466.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
外資的部分拿走8000法人的部分拿走5000大約約莫還有自然人的部分大概剩下一兆如果這一兆拿出來的話 憨不啷噹我們從這一兆拿到的這個2.11%就有200多億了 那個就打開了就可以Cover這個你在補充百貨來源那個市長這裡頭有什麼顧慮嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5470.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5486.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
感謝委員對於這個議題的關心那我跟委員報告就是說這個議題我們現在補充保費我們現在目前是這個暫緩但是我們現在也跟財政部這邊在積極研議那剛剛委員剛剛所說的這個部分主要大概就是說就是把那個天花板那個部分把它打開 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5489.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5512.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
這個我們再來研議也跟財政部這邊我們來討論次長 我再給你一個參考去年十大股東自然人的收入就一共拿了305億就這十個人就可以有6.4億的補充保護費如果最高收入的話一個家庭的股利大概是2900億就這一person而已一person的家庭而已只有2900億 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5514.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5539.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
就有50到60亿了 对不对你从这个今天我们讨论这个两极化的社会当中你就应该思考这个问题对不对 你怎么一直给小知足刚刚我一开始所PO的这个第4到第8的这群人当中一直找这群人给他去取得他的财富他当然相对不满你看他实质的所得也不过是个位数而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5540.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5559.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這引起反彈相對的剝奪感就是從這邊而來市長 回去好好思考一下從這個角度來看而且還有一個角度可以看的是法人大股東有沒有可能做一個對象這個部分你也請那個跟部長好好討論一下好不好畢竟這個財政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5560.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5571.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
科稅比較有經驗怎麼用他會比較清楚 好不好好好思考一下不然M型社會就會一直持續發生就是你們這種政策搞成這樣子好 謝謝市長你稍等一下我再問一下部長部長 你在這邊站那麼久不好意思 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5578.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5607.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
部長 這個補充保惠的部分我們現在我們在討論這些補充保惠我們就不免想到我們現在最大很大的一個收入的部分來源總共在明年度大概有760幾億就是房地合一稅的這個稅源在房地合一稅的稅源當中目前為止就從上一次我本席跟你質詢之後好不容易從百分之百都給長照現在有10%那明年是不是多10%就2成 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5609.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5627.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
對不對住宅的部分就變兩層那住宅的部分現在社會住宅已經卡關8個月原因在什麼原因在說經費不足即便變了兩層明年也大概是191億而已一棟社會住宅補助的10億沒有算多了所以挺多大概20棟 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5628.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5654.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
这样的情况底下你在20%老实讲现在的社会住宅的部分20%相对还是比较低就从住宅基金你本来的钱就来自于房地产你还只有两成这个部分请部长回去思考一下为什么做这样的思考呢也跟次长有相关次长你看最近年的长照制度长照预算从300多亿到800多亿审计部多次指出质询率不佳 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5655.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5679.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
特別在112年113年有23項執行率不到一半或不到八成連民間團體都出來講為了衝執行率又衝KPI很多補助都太過於腐爛了就是錢太多錢太多你應該把錢挪在有需要的地方就你現在他已經沒有那個執行能量了沒有那個量能你一直給他他當然會變成這種結果那個部長這是你們兩部的事情是要處理一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5685.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5704.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
对 我们也会邀同内政部一起来讨论做一个怎么样的对 找内政部来内政部也是很困扰另外还有那个李赤我再问你一下国民年金的部分一直强调现在4049的低标其实是不够是希望提到8000提到8000的部分也可以有助于今天M型社化形成的结果 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5705.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5721.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
市長我想聽聽您的看法非常感謝委員對於我們國民年金的受保人的一利益的關心為本部我們覺得就是說應該要朝向支持我們的整個保障國民的退休福祉我想8000其實老實說也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5721.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5737.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
老實說恐怕也不太夠但是我們覺得應該朝這個目標是不夠如果再加上還有其他的幾夫的話加總起來的話比較有可能接近最低生活費而已沒錯 也降低我們老人品種一般的先是在1萬5 1萬6所以說這個部分真的需要調 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5742.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5759.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
次長請衛福部回去慎重思考最後一個問題想要問一下那個次長請回我最後一個問題想要問一下那個部長財政部長部長 那個最近有在談到我們財政部所屬公股銀行底下的這一些頭性診病的問題我是第一個要提醒一下那個勞工權益要顧好 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5760.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5787.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那第二个的部分呢有一些部分的公股银行有在做分行的这个整并对不对对 这个有一条街都比7-11还多这个我都举过例子但最后我本席要提醒一下其实你们海外分行更多啦海外分行出现问题的更多啦我跟你夯不啷当算起来总共呢你这些分行这个八大公股银行加起来大概100从子行分行加起来134间 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5789.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5807.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
需要整顿的搞不好是这边那个部长你要不要回去思考一下没有错 现在有关海外分行的部分因为海外分行主要是服务我们的台商我们的侨胞然后那需要不要做调整随着产业的一些移动我们会做一些调整然后我们想各个金控还有银行也都在做这方面的思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5807.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5823.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
昨天我才問過金管會金管會在中國的曝險也從46%降到15%就一整 足足少了20幾%這樣曝險越高就是業務量一直萎縮的情況底下海外分行的據點的重要性就相對的減少嘛 是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5824.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5842.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
是不是一同思考一下好不好是公股航庫的其實曝險的比例更低對 更低所以說海外航空需要實質要設的可能性再加上現在網路 電子支付越來越盛行實體銀行就更不需要的情況底下應該慎重思考一下好不好是的好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席好 謝謝郭委員接下來我們請李彥秀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5855.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5861.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
谢谢赵伟 我会邀请财政部长以及主席长来 请财政部长 请主席长谢谢 主席长 部长 两位早安对于才化法的修正民进党团提出来的战刑条例我看到目前为止 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5880.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5892.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我的看法是康他人之慨用社福為名對地方進行財政上的鬥爭但是我更遺憾的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5893.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5919.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
部長主席長你們都非常清楚知道統籌稅款是地方政府的稅客收入從第8條我們收入為國稅之後第8條我們垂直分配完之後中央留中央的按照比例地方留地方的地方即便分配不完他還是屬於該分配給地方的稅客收入依法有據 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5922.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5941.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
部長我有沒有說錯我到目前我有沒有說錯分配到地方按照公式分配完之後分配即便分配不完他還要是地方的稅收對不對地方應該分配的地方課稅收入我們的報告裡面說他基本性質上是屬於統籌稅款 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5943.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5968.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
統籌稅款 對 但中央分配中央按照公示第8條垂直分配完之後中央統籌分配給地方或分配給地方各縣市然後再水平分配再來分所以你們才會有在今年8月27號你們開完會之後你們說這還是屬於地方政府的裁員中央不能挪作他用財政部進一步表示白紙黑字寫在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5970.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5990.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我沒說錯但今天還是沒有錯嘛但是我更遺憾的是你們兩位都是從基層公務員幹上來的不管各政黨對於各樣事務有不同的意見你們按照道理你應該是依法告訴他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5992.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6003.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
法源的依據在哪裡但是我更遺憾的是你剛剛既然知道財政部既然有說這還是屬於地方的稅款你怎麼只能說中央立場尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6005.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6034.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
你应该依法说明我再次强调因为我今天好几个议题要问不管中央要照顾长辈的生活辅助或者是做劳退的奖励或者甚至对父幼的照顾我都支持都非常好但是这属于中央要做这属于中央全国一致性的事务中央自己来做用自己的钱你要用那个税金剩余也好你要用什么钱中央的钱我都没有意见 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6035.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6052.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
但是如果只屬於中央的事務那請你們用中央的錢來做不要慷他人之慨這是我要再一次強調的中央跟地方其實到現在包括一直在喊市權要轉移到現在才劃法暫時不做天天在想辦法鬥地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6053.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6075.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
所以我只想說主席長跟部長你們曾其林你們按照公務員來說你們應該是依法行政不管黨團各政黨有什麼樣的失誤如果依法無據或指責罪你們應該告訴他們哪裡不對你不要風往哪裡倒你就往哪裡倒這是我要提醒你的地方那第二點兩位請我請國發會副主委時間先暫停請國發會高副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6085.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6103.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
副主委我們今天討論是經濟成長對於整個整理國家的財務分配的影響關稅戰的關係我們本來一開始說今年經濟成長保三有點困難但是我們今年AI還是不錯第三季可以達到7.64全年更可以保五破六 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6104.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6128.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我有看到幾個數據包括我們今年在台灣破百萬美元的人大概超過75萬人在全球排名也是第15名足跡處也說明年GDP可能破4萬美金對於目前的經濟態勢包括在貧富上的分配這樣的說法副主委你的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6129.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6140.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我想大家都知道其實我們今年的經濟成長非常好那當然是跟AI的創新運用發展對 你直接回答我就是所有全民的經濟共享這樣的成績 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6142.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6166.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
大家有感嗎其實我想落差會不會很大基本上就是我們可以發現當然就是AI的發展會比傳產來得好然後高所得的人的所得的增加的確是比一些中資所得增加會高所以在美國關稅戰之後其實財務分配恐怕會更不平均AI好 好的人好在金字塔頂端那個落差非常大我有幾個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6167.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6173.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
包括我們今年的民間消費實質成長已經連續兩年低於1%第三季也只有0.92%還是低於1%的水準也就是說過去幾年雖然財富的成長但是是不是多數民眾有感我打了一個問號包括這幾年我們最高的113年家庭的收支調查當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6189.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6217.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
全国最高的20%家户的平均收支是235万但是最低标的20%只有38.4万差距有6倍之多所以包括我们看到经常性的薪资有七成劳工他的领的经常性薪资是低于我们的平均薪资也就我们常在讲的我们国家常在说台湾说政府也好总统也好常在讲说我们经济成长数字非常漂亮但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6218.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6238.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
多數的七成勞工是感受不到的因為七成勞工他領的薪水是低於平均薪資的好那我的重點問題就來了副主委我們之前有提一個AI產業計畫包容性的成長四年包括美國的橋水的基金會創辦人也提到就是說提到美國的一個現象就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6238.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6264.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
美国因为AI的发展贫富差距会越来越大因为AI用的人少七成劳工未来工作在哪里可能不知道所以我们提了一个国家发展计划对于未来如何确保AI科技的发展红利未来对于中低技术的劳工怎么去做这一块的处理这是我第一个问题对于产业人力再造薪资结构的改变你们后续要怎么做处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6266.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6287.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我想AI的發展是國際的趨勢很多國家其實面對的跟我們問題也非常的類似我想就政府來說其實是不是貧富差距未來發展下去只會越來越大均衡台灣沒有同意未來AI的發展貧富差距會越來越大因為其實AI能做的就是固定那一些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6288.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6301.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
所以人力所以我們AI的新十大建設裡面其實最重要的是創新運用裡面要百工百業富能也就是說不只我們只有一個護國神山我們要有護國群山也就是我們會讓中小微體驗但是實際的動作是什麼我們看到美國現在的狀況就是預估未來的狀況其實是貧富差距越來越大 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6310.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6322.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
怎麼辦我想第一個我們一定要讓所有的產業不只是只有半導體跟伺服器相關產業起來我們其他的傳產還有一些服務業也要跟著起來傳產都快活不下去了然後第二個我們還是要其實我們有一些政策性的譬如說我們內需產業包括我們的觀光還有我們的這些金融產業我們也相對一些措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6337.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6351.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
所以我覺得你們應該去做更精準的研調政府應該有更多的工具包括未來中低階層的技術勞工怎麼辦下一步在AI產業發展之後這些人怎麼辦這些才是經濟中弱勢的弱勢時間先暫停你請回我要請你用書面再更精準的回應我主席我想邀請衛福部的政次跟勞動部的政次請勞動部李政次衛福部李政次 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6367.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6388.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
主席你時間一直在跑再還給李委員3秒鐘拜託兩位政策我關注到明年國民年金保費要上調就是說我們現在因為通膨CPI已經到達6.79%所以每一年的我們保費的金額會從43塊漲到84塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6391.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6419.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那這樣的保費的漲幅會有270萬人受影響但是我要提醒兩位的就是說我們現在根據以前舊的數據我現在有的手邊有的我們有最新的數據等一下我要請你們提供新的數據就是說國民年金的保費台灣將就100萬人沒有繳這個保費那他沒有繳保費有很多不同的原因是經濟還各方面的原因我不清楚你們應該有更清楚的言調 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6420.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6438.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
在337萬台灣被保險人當中有240萬人有很多不同的因素他領國民年金包括家庭主婦或主夫不同的因素或要照顧長照家庭的人士所以他就開始請領國民年金這個保費的 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6441.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6451.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
漲幅我有幾個問題要請教就是說我們今年國民年金的2024年精算報告當中我們國民年金的潛藏負債是多達6320億相較於2023年我們是減少了797億 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6458.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6487.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以我們今年比去年又減少了負債的狀況減少了所以我有幾個問題要請教就是說我們長國民年金的保費它的必要性跟急迫性是不是需要今年處理那你們有沒有評估過我目前我舊的數據有台灣有100萬人沒有繳首期的保費如果保費再漲會不會有更多人繳不起那這些人數字大概有多少因為大家都知道國民年金影響是老人的經濟生活安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6488.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6510.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
辛苦的人中低收入戶 家都沒戶買便當都買不起 三餐都吃不飽他怎麼有錢去繳這個保費 這是我的問題所以我兩個問題今年有沒有漲的必要性跟急迫性目前我舊的數據有100萬人連首期都繳不起這個漲幅之後 會不會有更多人繳不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6511.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6538.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
或不願意繳你們有沒有做過精準的評估那另外繳保費你們有沒有跟NGO團體做過溝通因為NGO團體就在講說繳不起的人更繳不起你請回應我非常感謝林燕秀委員對這個問題的關心陳副委員剛剛所說的國民年金確實是沒有參加其他所有職業別的一個民眾所以這裡面主要有三類一個當然就是說無一定雇主還有另外就是所謂家庭主婦或主婦另外就是學生主 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6538.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6552.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
你直接回應我不想占用別人的時間我想重點現在是這樣現在目前這個部分我們在調的部分其實是根據國民年金法它裡面還有一個CPI的部分所以我剛問說有沒有必要因為我看到新聞你們說今年要漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6553.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6568.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我擔心的是漲不漲是你們做政治判斷跟決定但去年跟今年的負債今年沒有去年負債的那麼高所以有沒有漲的必要性跟急迫性然後另外我的問題是漲了之後會不會有更多人繳不起保費 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6569.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6592.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
是 包委員 我們現在目前這個部分當然有做一些相關的評估那這個其實 你有沒有擔心有更多人繳不起保費那有沒有跟之前決定我從新聞上看到要繳保費你們有沒有跟NGO團體溝通過就是有NGO的那個團體這裡邊我們都有做相關的討論他們支持嗎那我們現在當然就是各方的一些我們現在都有一些各方的一些意見當然我們都會來評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6595.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6610.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
他們不支持所以有沒有繳的必要性跟急迫性我希望你們評估清楚會不會有更多弱勢團體繳不起保費那就失去國民年金當時設立的意義現在台灣有一百萬人連收起保費都繳不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6610.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6633.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
以上就是今天講貧富差距我講說AI的發展未來如果政府沒有更多的工具去保障基層技術勞工台灣有更多人生活的會更困苦貧富差距只會越來越大謝謝好 感謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝李委員接下來我們請鍾嘉斌委員等一下在本席質詢結束之後我們休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6644.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6665.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
主席在場的委員先進列席的政務機關事長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生依序要請這幾位首長來接受質詢第一位是我們的陳祖濟長第二位是莊部長那麼第三位是衛福部的呂次長再來是勞動部的李次長然後經濟部的何次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6665.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6690.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
以及國發會的高副主委那我問了我就請不再問了就請他們先回座休息好 那就請剛剛中委員要求的與會的次長還有副主委因為這樣可以節省時間我不用再秒數暫停高副主委 何次長 李次長好 呂次長那麼陳主席長我們去年國人的經常性平均薪資跟中位數分別是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6691.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6710.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
9月是48,000一到9月是47,00047這是平均經常性的平均薪資那中位數呢中位數是38,00038,000好那大家都很清楚知道平均薪資是全部的薪資的平均但是中位數意思說有一半的人的薪水不到38,000但是平均薪水是在48,00047,000好當月是 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6715.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6729.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
好那沒關係這不是重點重點是什麼重點是什麼叫做縮短所得差距怎麼樣減少相對的貧窮感假設說十年前我你還沒結束我十年前月領三萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6730.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6752.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我跟另外一位月領3萬 10年後我領到了5萬我應該很開心吧 超過我們運薪資啦但是另外那位跟我同時進來的呢他領到了10萬 因為他進入了台積電的關聯產業他不是在那邊做晶片 他可能幫他們工廠做維護我呢 漲了2萬塊的薪水但是你覺得 我有沒有相對的貧窮感他領10萬 我領5萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6757.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6774.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我只多了2萬 他多了7萬主席長知道原因了是那你認為這就是我們國人相對貧窮感的原因是是所得的增加因為產業別沒有平均的照顧到每個人好 那麼接下來我要請教一下我們的請回 請回 請呂次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6780.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6796.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
剛剛我們的委員剛剛是李彥秀委員提到了我們的國民年金保險國保年金有200多萬人對不對請問他們平均每個月可以領多少錢報告委員我們現在目前有這個A4 B4還有另外大概是多少錢大概4000上下吧大概4096 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6798.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6820.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那請問你知道目前年金在進行改革現階段的公教退休人員大概平均月領多少大概5萬8是教育人員5萬1是公務人員那你覺得同樣是退休人員退休生活所需要的基礎物質基礎差不多吧那你覺得這樣會不會有相對的貧窮感 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6821.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6837.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
包委員這個應該會造成不光相對貧窮感而且相對剝奪感相對剝奪感所以我們我很認同剛剛那個那個李燕祐委員所說的我們對於這208萬的國保年金的這個月薪月薪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6838.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6864.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
年金的月領人我們覺得很辛苦謝謝請回來我們請勞動部次長所有人國民都應該有平衡的保護謝謝所以衛福部支持讓所有的年金族都能夠有一個比較公平的年金制度來請問一下目前次長我們勞動人口勞保是不是1048萬48萬對不對這當中有多少人是受雇的可以有他雇主幫他勞退幫他提撥的 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6866.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6882.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
受雇者大概是854萬目前有雇主幫他做勞退提撥的多少大概770多萬大概770萬請問這770萬受雇者 雇主幫他提撥勞退6%的有多少自己有自提 1到6% |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6885.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6897.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
全部129萬但其中受僱勞工115萬好 所以非常少不到兩成所以相對的這些受僱的上班族有將近超過八成他自己沒有自行提撥為什麼你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6898.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6923.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
你覺得什麼原因根據我們的數據大概就是比較低薪他覺得自己的薪水少我才月領三萬 五萬我怎麼會去提這些自提的是不是都是平均月薪資比較高的你們的統計大概九成左右都是比較高薪的月薪都很高 謝謝請回現在我們要請教財政部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6925.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6933.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
剛剛有李議員要問到說財化法現在是不是有行政院版即將推出會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6935.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6954.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
裡面有沒有包括對16條之一公式的一些調整我們是重新規劃讓它在水平分配更為合理所以你行政院的版本未來會不會比現在這些受到16條之一公式錯誤影響這幾個縣市你們的版本有沒有讓未來這幾個縣市可以得到的統籌分配更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6956.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6975.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我们的公司会做一个合理的分配不合理的分配所以保证这几个受到这个16条之一受影响的县市它可以更得到更多的合理分配16条之一这样的一个分母的问题事实上每个县市我只问你行政院版以后会不会比只修16条之一你觉得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6976.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7001.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
當然謝謝請回我們現在請經濟部跟國發會先請經濟部次長我們往下看今天我的主題來了很快的音樂時間有限往下看好來次長 何次長傳產是不是變成傳產在第二季電子業跟傳產是兩樣情是不是經濟部有沒有看到這個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7003.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7028.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那你們哪些政策工具我們來看一下你們政策工具融資給他低利貸款給他還款展延地租的減免租金的減免水電房租運費行銷費用你們都有補貼哪一個最有效第一個融資的部分你覺得第一個有效我告訴你通通有效但是通通都不夠用往下看四大基金能做什麼來四大基金高副主委四大基金能做是不是這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7029.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7042.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
穩健股是以基金投資收益來支持產業多元佈局執行各種策略投資是不是這樣子基金有它的運用的對那你瞭解他們目前持股是不是以半導體資通金融這個龍頭股為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7044.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7069.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我覺得他們會按照那個他在股市在那個我了解我了解大概是這樣的情況往下看那麼協助傳產有一個叫CITD這是經濟部負責對不對是不是說寫的製造業跟技術服務他上限是200萬研發是1000萬他目前的補助上限低其成短就一年規模小是不是這樣子是那麼是從到90年到110年4655萬投入多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7073.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7095.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
不到60億啊這是不是傳產可以得到的是不是目前傳產可以得到嗎還有沒有其他傳產可以得到往下看來 產業再造基金有沒有這個東西這是誰負責的來 國發會你說你們怎麼進行產業再造基金我們有投資一個VC然後他是要協助那個傳產產業做轉型是不是創業投資事業可以申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7097.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7112.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我們沒有這個基金的名稱我們沒有這個基金只是有一幾個名字是不是以創業投資為主是好 那這樣問題來了現在面臨轉型困境遇到了這個關稅衝擊的他不是要新創他不是要創業投資 他要轉型何市長是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7115.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7129.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
跟委員報告 我們這一個我們投的這個VC不是火星創它是投資上市櫃公司裡面需要上市櫃公司 更好目標是30億 上市櫃公司何市長 請你告訴高副主委我們的傳產 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7130.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7158.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
有多少是在上市櫃 市長請說我們的中小企業你過去來自於中小企業的照顧的這個團體我們是不是幾成都是中小企業九成以上大概九成八以上九成八高副主委兩趴的上市櫃可以得到委員我跟您報告我剛剛講的只是這一檔基金還有沒有我們來看一下非常多元的投資方式很多元我後面就有來看一下國發基金投資的業務融資的業務其他業務有這麼多是不是是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7159.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7167.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
沒有冤枉嘛都幫你寫出來了你們這邊有個百億主題投資對他是包括資本支出的融資周轉的融資利息的補貼信用的保證有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7168.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7186.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
但是融資業務都有你們輔導轉型的對象就不限定上市貴了對不對是當然很好就這樣往下看所以有沒有個天使創投目前國發基金有在對新創事業有這樣的一個基金對不對我們現在我們的額度增加到100億對這是對新創對新創傳產要轉型的看得到這不是對他的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7192.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7205.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
是另外的嗎對 另外的有好 往下看所以我認為新創產業需要天使基金國發也準備好了傳統產業的轉型需要轉型投資資金何市長你同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7207.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7226.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
跟委員報告 其實國際基金給經濟部的100億裡面我們其實也有做這方面的投資這方面 哪方面 傳產對不對轉型對不對 大概多少我們經濟部有製造業 有服務業 也有中小企業總共有300億我告訴你 現在傳產分兩種 私私有兩種 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7230.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7244.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
常常有的他真的是老闆說我要收起來為什麼 做不下去了可能我是連特登連我的用地都不是符合的我要去特登特登要輔導我我看關稅衝擊我做不下去了我們有沒有輔導退場 會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7245.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7271.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
福島退場之後 勞動部 衛護部要接手要照顧所有人家的勞工但是另外有一些 他不是沒有競爭力他只是撐不過去這個沿東他已經看準了未來的市場投資佈局 買了機器 擴充了土地 借了錢現在美國市場既有手上的訂單縮減了未來的訂單還在努力市長換成是你 你會怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7272.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7282.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
把新買的廠房賣掉先還新界的錢把員工就叫他們回家吃自己你覺得要面臨轉型的企業主他會這樣做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7284.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7309.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
如果是你你會這樣做嗎跟委員報告其實員工是企業最重要的資產一般來講企業主基本上都船產顧了200到300萬是 其實企業主當然珍惜他的員工對 10年 20年縱使是二三十人的船產都有二三十個家庭靠他照顧對不對所以這些船產的企業主需要什麼需要經濟部跟國發會的支持往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7310.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7327.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
是不是我可以來請經濟部跟國外思考一下我們在國發基金給傳產的部分現有的投資有生物科技文化創意半導體航太未來如果傳產部分如果有是投資而非借貸政府來參與請問兩位請問高副主委你認為這樣的方向符不符合我們支持傳統中小企業來轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7336.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7350.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們國發基金其實一直以來都用不同的管道支持傳產的轉型升級那譬如說我們剛剛講到次長講到了我們匡列一個三個百億基金還有我們很多的VC還有直投我們都支持傳統產業轉型升級 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7351.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7376.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
好我們看一下很快的我的30秒回顧一下下一頁台積電成立初期我們開發基金的投資方式現在台積電我們政府的持股就成為我們國發基金協助其他新創產業的一個基礎往下看所以隱形冠軍遭遇寒冬產值減少訂單不配看好他借不到錢市長要不要支持這些隱形冠軍渡過難關 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7377.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7385.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
當然要好 高副主委我們是不是比照我們護國神山來守護傳產的隱形冠軍 要不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7386.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7414.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我們一直都在這樣做所以最後的兩個要求請看我就不再重述主席站起來了希望我們國發會跟經濟部攜手幫助這些不是上市櫃中小企業占我們九成八的中小企業當中有未來競爭轉型能力的協助他們度過寒冬用你們手中的政策工具增加在我們傳產中小企業的身上好不好好謝謝兩位謝謝主席謝謝總委員接下來我們請王世堅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7437.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7441.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
謝謝主席 我請衛福部女次長請女次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7450.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7474.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
王委員好 理事長我很高興你今天做了這一份報告我三個禮拜前提出我是針對主技術他們的統計我認為這幾年我們國家經濟情勢一片大好確實整個社會財富是成長的但是社會財富分配的不均導致我們國內有相當數字的 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7481.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7497.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這個貧窮黑數那我估計是大概貧窮黑數有250萬所以我在意的是我們怎麼拉低這個貧富差距以外那怎麼樣對中低收入戶跟低收入戶這些貧窮黑數 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7499.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7523.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們社會怎麼樣去救助他們那你今天提的這個報告是很不錯我們根據社會救助法那麼給中低收入戶低收入戶來增加他們的生活輔助急難救助這個急難紓困等等這些都很好那這個甚至食物的補給這些都有你都寫得很詳細 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7525.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7552.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
不過我們社會上有貧窮黑數相對的也有假低收黑數這些假低收黑數啊這個其實財稅單位他們查不到為什麼財稅單位是依法你有收入你有財產那財稅單位會登錄所以他們有辦法去查查對 據以來對他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7557.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7564.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這個徵稅但是很多所謂的假低收這一個部分比方說 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7566.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7592.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
這個在我們的檢調單位他們已經去查光這兩三年這個資料我一查數十件之多都已經被起訴了都已經被起訴的這一個部分所謂的假低收就是說財產放他的名下然後他名下沒有任何的財產或者透過假離婚或者他的收入都是現金的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7594.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7619.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這些人他們住透天豪宅開特斯拉生活很優渥這樣的情況下還可以領取中低收甚至低收的補助這樣子的案例好多我光是查查幾件比方說有夫妻 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7619.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7646.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
就我剛剛講的住豪宅開名車的假低收去詐領補助這個每年啊 每年喔經常性的就領十幾萬查獲他八年領了一百多萬那也有這個因為我們對於中低收 低收這個給付沒有附審機制所以導致 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7649.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7675.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
很多在這個崗位上社福人員他堅守制度比方說在台中和平區公所抓到的就是這樣他用這個因為沒有附審機制沒有去查查所以竟然把沒有資格的用他自己的父親自己的弟弟炸零用這樣炸零的技能也是非常龐大那因為自首所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7676.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7691.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
把它減輕其罪都100多萬以上這樣子的例子我想其他我就不用再念了太多太多所以我是希望衛福單位在我們對低收中低收弱勢貧窮黑數的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7694.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7714.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我們甚至很多找不到的貧窮歸宿都要透過訪源去實際了解來補助他們來接住他們結果這樣的情況下是對的相對我們也要透過我們的這些訪源實際去了解去調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7716.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7732.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
有沒有假低收的因為假低收啊它佔據了我們社會的資源它也是擴大貧富差距的幫兇之一元兇之一啦因為它用到了我們社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7733.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7751.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那個難得的大家辛苦擠出來的這些救助的金額所以我希望說在這個部分你們去落實好不好這個是這個情況你曉得嗎包委員我過去在台中擔任過社會局局長你剛 委員剛才說的問題我了解尤其甚至還有一個那裡每個廟宇 每個柱子都過去修理在那裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7760.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7772.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
類似像這個情況我了解但是這個部分我們在地方的社會局還有公所那邊跟委員報告我們現在都有那個所謂的資產調查社工都會去當然就是說我們現在第一我們現在社會救助大概主要三個要件嘛動產不動產還有誰算所得社工 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7775.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7793.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我們會用社工去做調查因為社工他應該深入去了解一方面也了解說對於低收中低收這樣我們的補助夠不夠是不是他的情況還更嚴重需要幫助那我認為檢舉制度我們要做調整因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7794.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7810.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
你們一再的說這個檢舉必須實名具名檢舉是沒錯奇怪人家財稅單位人家有的匿名檢舉人家也是去查財不是嗎那你知道現在社會上大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7811.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7825.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
大家就是不希望說把透露個人的資料出去所以是不是既然有這樣的情況有接到這樣的檢舉不管是實名匿名都應該去了解去調查好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7827.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7852.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那我們對低收入的補助本來社會的制度可能我們甚至在教育上面你看台大 清大 交大都有希望入學續日計畫這本來設計很好是要給中低收的家庭能夠不要把他們的優秀的子弟們把它埋沒掉所以讓他們可以透過他們的努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7853.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7874.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
他們的聰明才智可以創造未來子弟們他們的新的命運可以去改變他家庭的命運這本來很好啊結果這樣的制度如果有假低收假中低收的話他們也會享用到這個制度的漏洞好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7874.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7885.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
OK 好 鮑委員我們一定會來這部分來交代你具體的做 過一陣子這個確實要精準要精準去 好不好 好時間暫停 你請回OK 非常感謝委員 謝謝主席我請我請財政部長來 莊部長請委員好莊部長 老問題啦我去年提到現在我不曉得這一年來這個成績做得怎麼樣就是說我們國內 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7904.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7917.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
受險業可運用資金有35兆那麼他們已經把這裡面的7成25兆拿去海外購買海外的債券基金那這有兩大風險一個戰爭風險一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7919.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
7944.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
這個匯率的風險結果這兩個風險在這一年多來我們都碰到了我相信你都很清楚所以我當時我具體建議因為他們要去海外他們是說國內利息低國內市場小他們是用這兩個理由我是認為國內利息低低不能當他藉口因為國內利息低我承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
7945.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
7963.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
但是這些保險公司也是以這個低利息當作期望值去做成他的商品來賣給保險的民眾們所以利息低他不能當藉口好啦 另外一個他說市場小那市場小我認為這個就必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
7965.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
7975.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
總部長必須你財政部來去規劃這些規劃哪一些規劃是不是我們國內需要建設那的 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
7980.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8005.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
資金我們不要說每一筆都用預算大家變一形式預算編了就有不是我們有自償性的建設比方像社會住宅比方說交通的各項建設啊我們鐵公路高速公路的修建等等這一些捷運捷運等通車以後售票那就有自償性嘛所以我們是不是來 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8007.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8017.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
設需要的交通建設基金 設宅基金 長照債券這些可以設這些需要的建設的債券 公債然後鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8021.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8036.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
甚至具體要求這些保險公司把在海外的這25兆一部分一部分挪回來買我們的建設公債表示對我們台灣對我們自己國家有信心那這個部分你做了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8037.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8062.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
跟委員報告謝謝委員的指教行政院有一個兆元投資方案在這裡面很重要的就提出更大的案源所謂就是要有投資的標的那第二個部分就是要放寬保險業投資國內的公共建設跟基礎建設那金管會呢對於這相關保險業投資的相關的項目都有做法令的調整那我想這個部分我們可以把它羅列又提供給委員也就是說把法規鬆綁 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8063.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8090.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
讓保險業可以有更多的資金投資到國內的公共建設跟基礎建設而同樣的我們在這邊也施出更大的一個案源讓他們可以投資那另外剛剛委員提到的就是發公債的部分對於有自償性的乙類公債那財政部這個部分也一直在請地方政府也好中央政府也好能夠發行乙類公債讓保險業可以也透過公債的模式來投入公共建設那這個部分大概有1494億大家從 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8092.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8115.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
今年也會發70億的民航交通部民航局這邊會發所以委員您所...今年會發好 那今年現在已經11月了是 我也許可以把資料整理提供給委員但是我再提醒你其實為什麼你的重責大任在你身上因為中央政府建設公債條例第四條就寫得很清楚授權其實直接就是授權財政部只要你核准 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8119.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8131.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
報請行政院 那就可以發行了好不好所以重責大任就在財政部是 謝謝委員提示好 謝謝王委員 謝謝莊部長接下來有請李坤臣召委質詢謝謝主席我們先請財政部莊部長有請莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8148.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8165.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
委員好部長好普發現金昨天1月12號已經陸續入帳了對不對請教一下部長手邊上有數字嗎就是從昨天入帳到現在有多少人已經領到普發現金一萬塊了 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8167.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8182.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我到昨天的數字 今天我們在統計已經超過1000萬人已經領到了現金那這裡面包括直接入帳還有登記入帳就是原來有去網站去登記入帳的這樣合計起來超過1000萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8184.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8202.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
就是那個網路登記的然後還有包含直接入帳的那直接入帳的部分的話是入到他們各自的帳戶就對了對 直接入帳比如說有勞保年金的災保年金 國民年金他們都原來都有固定政府有固定的那固定的帳戶是銀行還是郵局 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8206.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8218.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
應該有銀行也有是不是都有銀行跟郵局應該都有都是固定輸入進入他的帳號那這個部分就有大概有400多萬的人都是直接入帳了400多萬的人直接入帳458萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8221.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8231.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
有458萬人是直接入帳是直接入帳的所以大概有600萬人是登記登記有六天的時間就是11月5號到11月10號有588萬人去做預登記了當然陸續這兩天都可以不管身分證號的尾數都可以再繼續做其實我們也有在做宣傳現在有五種領取的方式對不對但是很多人還是第一個會搞不清楚狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8248.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8253.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
就是說到底是線上登記郵局領ATM領有些人就是說這個可不可以帶領有些人就想說這個會有詐騙的問題所以也不敢在線上登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8262.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8282.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我們有沒有想到就是說我們乾脆就是譬如說單一帳戶我們每個國民都有一個單一的帳戶譬如說像郵局我們出生之後我們就有一個單一的帳戶那這個單一的帳戶就是以後不管像是這一種的普發現金或是像您講的就是說有一些我們是有一些津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8283.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8310.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
要匯給這一些需要的人那我們是不是就乾脆我們就乾脆比如說郵局因為郵局是國營的也比較沒有爭議那我們出生之後每個人在郵局有一個帳戶然後以後有類似這一種津貼或是說這種福利的話我們就直接匯到那個帳戶那也不會有說到底有幾種領取的方式也避免這個被詐騙以後有沒有機會朝這種方式去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8311.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8336.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我想委員您這個建議也就是說每一個國民就如同健保卡一樣人生就給他一個健保然後我們政府是不是給他一個帳號以後相關的津貼或什麼都直接入帳戶我想這個部分也許可以我們跨部會來討論看看也成為一個國家的基礎建設然後當然還要考慮其他的問題我想這個部分要從長的研議之前有沒有想過這方面的就是說因為這個普發現金也不是第一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8337.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8357.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
之前倒沒有這樣子的一個規劃那你覺得實際上可行嗎委員的建議我想應該還是要跨部會大家一起來討論要考慮的因素可能也比較多沒關係 你們討論一下去思考一下 跨部會想一下我是覺得說你有一個單一的帳戶每個國民都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8358.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8372.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
那類似這種津貼你就直接匯進去第一個不用怕詐騙時間到就匯進去然後呢 這個也是這種方式就不用說我還要去ATM或是去郵局或是去哪裡 也很方便然後呢 也不會有什麼帶領的問題這小孩子到底要給誰領這個是自己領還是給家長領 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8378.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8397.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那郵局的營業時間第一個 它據點多營業時間長然後它也是國營的比較不會衍生一些爭議我覺得你們研究一下好不好我想這個部分要跨部會大家一起來研議思考一下做一個政權的準備好 謝謝部長那我們接下來請這個主席總處陳主席長還有衛福部呂市長陳主席長 呂市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8408.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8421.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
委員好主席長好 您之前在立法院有提過說我們全台灣的低收入戶只佔1.13%如果加上中低收入戶只佔2.26%如果採取相對貧窮率來計算全台有7.57%是屬於貧窮的範圍高於低收入戶的統計高很多 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8435.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8464.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
沒錯這個中間有落差嘛是不是因為當初這個家庭所得他只計算經常性收入財富沒有算進去所以他裡面會有一些隱藏性的所得所以在衛福部他在設計的時候他會把財產和一些相關的數據設計在裡面所以他的數據這當中就會有一點落差但是他對如果說有一些貧窮的黑術他本身沒有辦法得到救助他也另外也有其他的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8464.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8475.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
方式的一個做一些補助的一個方式這個要由衛福部來說明好 那主計長我問你你認為說我們在統計的這個數字上面有沒有沒有算進去的大家講的貧窮黑數 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8477.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8506.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
就是因為當初這個部分是沒有把財富算進來財富沒有算進來包括譬如說你的資產一些相關的負債如果說整個算進來的部分還是會有譬如說有的他明明是失業但是因為他是屬於有能力去工作的我們把它視為他是有所得這個部分他可能就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8507.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8517.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這個就是現在大家有在詬病的就是說虛擬收入的部分對不對對 這個是這樣那我先問主席長妳認為這個虛擬收入合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8519.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8539.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
这个部分我要看他怎么就是说我们现在是假设就是说你其实是有工作能力的你只是现在没有工作但是我就假定你你如果去工作你就有这些收入是不是但实际上不是每个人都愿意去可以找工作就可以找到工作或是找到合适的工作或是说找到的工作可以维持我的基本生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8540.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8564.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
但是跟委員報告事實上我們有相當的措施譬如說你失業整個有可以領失業的一個救濟所以整個可以領到長達六個月所以這本身都是有互相一個救濟的一個措施在讓他不至於說那當然就是屬於社會救濟的部分對 這個是失業的時候你就會有領到失業救助可以長達六個月做一個正當 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8565.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8570.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
好 我知道我們當然有一些社會福利做得還不錯啦那主席想請回我就問這一個理事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8572.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8599.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
那市長 因為現在社會救助法正在討論那我先問好了社會救助法大家比較關心就是我剛有提到一個就是虛擬收入的制度是沒錯就是說你只要去工作你就有收入了你只是現在沒有去工作而已所以我就把你這個年紀你可能找到的工作按照你是哪個類型的你每個月可以收入多少就把它當成是一個虛擬的收入是不是是沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8600.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8614.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那也因為有這個虛擬收入的制度其實啊我們這個很多的這個屬於貧窮的人就沒有把它算進去你看我們貧窮率好像很低其實實際上不是那回事的這個您也當過社會局局長您應該很清楚了解還有另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8615.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8632.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我們所得還是採取家戶的計算你採取家戶計算很多人覺得說我家戶計算其實我跟我的家人其實已經都沒有任何的關係了只有血緣在而已然後也把家人的財產共同計算進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8635.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8651.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那在這種情況之下你就是領不到一些相關的就算我們有中低收入的補助相關的社會救助的津貼我也領不到那在這種情況之下我們社會救助法有沒有至少針對這兩點外界一直在質疑的有做出調整或修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8652.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8674.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
非常感謝委員的關心剛剛委員確實有指出兩個重點我們現在目前有一個就是所謂的設算所得那設算所得的那個部分我想我先跟委員報告我們現在目前就是我們講那個虛擬收入對沒錯我們這個部分我們確實有在檢討很簡單我們現在目前就是說我們的檢討方式現在就是說會以一定的這一個就是這個所得我們現在可能打個折扣 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8676.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8704.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
你這個折扣要怎麼打包委員 這個我再向委員來報告我們現在目前主要是參考勞動部他那邊有關於薪資薪資的這個數據還有其實最重要事實上是有關於無一定雇主的所謂的非典型就業者他們的薪資按照這兩個指數我們現在先去做一些作業推算這是第一個重點另外第二個剛委員你做了一些改變那跟現在的制度有什麼不一樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8705.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8726.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
對 沒錯如果說不一樣會因為你這樣子設算會因為這樣而放寬不會放寬 對 沒錯放寬的大概範圍會多大跟委員報告現在剛剛就是說其實在貧窮裡面我也趁這個機會解釋一下就是說有相對貧窮跟絕對貧窮我們現在目前有進入社會救助的叫做所謂的絕對貧窮跟委員報告我們現在低收中 低收總共占了二點 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8727.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8739.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
大概2.4%這就屬於絕對貧窮的對 沒錯我們現在目前根據這一個我們現在目前其實民團這邊還有各界大概有很多像這一個人極合一還有剛剛委員剛剛所說的有關於這個有關於戶數的問題這部分我們都有檢討那預估這一個部分的話大概一定是會放寬但是我也要跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8750.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8772.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
臺灣真的在這個部分我要利用這個機會要說我們的相對貧窮我們的相對貧窮率真的只有7.54這裡面當然會有黑數的問題黑數的部分我們現在目前其實也有八大津貼除了社會救助之外我們對老人生活老人身心障礙還有困境的部分事實上再加上去的話我們會到8% |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8774.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
8784.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
8%的部分我跟委員報告這個部分我們是比日本 韓國跟美國都還比他們還高我知道我們有一些社會的福利在我們現在是談的是社會救助對 沒錯兩個概念是應該是不一樣的當然 沒錯我現在就釐清就是說有一個就是絕對貧窮跟相對貧窮就是兩個不能夠混淆在一起好 第一個你提到就是說虛擬制度會做修改就對了是 沒錯那家戶所得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
8798.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
8813.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
加護所的這邊我們也會一併就是剛剛委員說就是說像有一些可能是嫁出去的女兒或者說等等那些我們這個是覺得那財產也一起算對 所以這個我們覺得應該有值得來商榷之處那社會救助法 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
8818.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
8843.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
今年會送出來嗎我們現在正在努力當中那有辦法年底送到立法院來嗎我們會努力會努力我們努力朝這個方向因為我知道現在大家對這個問題非常關心就是說經濟成長率很高然後這個看起來數字都不錯但是還是有很多社會下貧窮人需要我們去協助除了社會津貼社會福利之外社會救助法的確需要改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
8844.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
8857.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
沒錯 沒錯 有些與時俱進剛委員說的一些該鬆應該要合理的我們要把它合理化好 謝謝次長好 非常感謝昆城委員 謝謝好 謝謝昆城召委 謝謝呂次長那麼我們再請林市民委員質詢 林召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
8870.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
8876.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我是不用上洗手間的 但是場下可能有人需要好好好 那我們讓他啦謝謝 請主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
8898.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
8920.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
委員好是 主席我們在主席總處的心情平台的網站可以查詢到從101年到112年我們每年度的全年總薪資的分布以全年薪資60萬為例101年有超過7成的壽星者但是到了112年同樣全年薪資60萬只剩下6成 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
8924.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
8943.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
這個現象表示說我們整體的薪資結構被往上拉但中位數的族群被擠下去整體的薪資結構不再是平均往上而是差距越來越明顯為什麼同樣全年薪資60萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
8945.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
8954.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
到了112年會從101年的七成降到六成主席長為什麼有這個現象可以請你說明一下嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
8955.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
8984.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
它有成长只是成长的成长的幅度没有那么高是这样子对这个部分因为我们现在好像D1 D2和这个部分我们就是有所谓的低薪的调薪基本工资的一个保障所以它的成长幅度就会比较高还要包括我们政府也保障低薪的部分有一个做一些的政策所以这个部分31,000以下的部分我们都调到31,000这是最基本 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
8985.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9002.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
基本的一個低薪的一個調整中位數的部分一般是比較平穩比較平穩是這樣子高薪的部分比較特殊因為它是有一些的比較AI的或者是私通業的市長 我知道妳就回答到這裡其實我們看到一個現象就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9004.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9024.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這個高薪者其實他的平均數越來越高就是因為中位數就是我們剛才講的平均60萬薪資的這個族群就他竟然掉了一層所以這個現象當然都有上升但是他掉了一層我想你要觀察到這個現象我請你要注意 要去注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9025.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9041.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我們再看主席總數薪資分布的資料我們整理出來你剛才講的D1到D9雖然我們所有的實質的成長率都有成長剛才主席講的但是我們看到實質的成長卻落差很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9043.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9050.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們看D1是從23.2萬我的表是2023現在實質到2024是提升到31.6萬那D9從101萬提高到到2024是提高到127.9萬但是我們要去看這個通膨率 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9064.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9087.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
這11年間通膨率成長了13.7%所以我們以這個購買率來講的話等於說101年的100元到了112年底大概已經變成113元了因為通膨增成長了13%所以主席講扣掉通膨之後我們整體薪資仍然是成長嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9088.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9101.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
你认为扣除空还是成长吗是的 成长1.78我记得 是这样成长1.78所以11年成长1.78但是我们从这个这是年 年增1.78 14年 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9105.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9131.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我想今天召委排这个专题政府要如何缩短我们整个所得的差距即改善相对贫穷化的对策其实刚才你讲虽然有成长但是我们看到就是说实质上我们中位数的这个族群的薪资停滞不前虽然有成长但是它幅度很低中位数也有成长它很低但是跟我们的通膨区再加以比较的话后组通膨也是成长 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9133.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9155.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
就成長不多但是我們看到就是說越有錢的人他越有錢他所得越高那低薪族剛才你們用很多政策去加以這個去加以彌補但是這個中位數的我們就一直覺得奇怪為什麼他的所得就有增加但是他的幅度很低你可以看 你可以看出來我們看那個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9156.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9171.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我們看到最低薪資的D1 D3的30%的族群換算實質薪資後它是最低三個十分位的成長率D1是成長19.8% D2成長17.2%D3成長11.4%反而中位數收入的族群就D4到D7 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9181.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9197.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
實質成長都很低 不到7%其中最低的低6%只有3.8%所以我們低薪階層或者領最低基本工資的階層向來我們就剛才講最需要被照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9198.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9225.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
但是最低薪資他不但也有提高從100年1月1日的18780元到2023年的1月1號是26400元到這個明年1月1號我們基本工資已經調高到29500元所以組長我要請問你從這個現象是否反映出基本工資雖然經過幾次的調高 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9228.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9250.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
後來確實也有讓我們的低薪族受惠但是整個中位數的階層被卡在原地薪水幾乎不太動沒什麼動所以這樣的結構是否會讓我們的社會結構這種結構讓我們薪資的結構陷入一個中位數它是一個天坑 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9251.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9277.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
他的所得永遠就是停留在那個階段沒有辦法再往上拉即便你把基本工資往上調你那個中位數的他的薪資就不動了報告委員我們政府這方面來做的部分包括我們公務人員的部分我們是帶頭加薪連續好幾年都做調薪第二個我們也鼓勵企業來做調薪然後也像金管會他也鼓勵就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9278.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9287.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
公司如果獲利要分配分配給那個這樣的話他會給他一些稅務方面的一個優待所以這個部分那包括產業他要賺錢所以我們都會輔導產業讓他賺錢然後讓他能夠把 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9294.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9312.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
員工的薪資調整所以這個部分主要是要鼓勵企業對員工加薪所以這個部分我們也在經濟部做很大的一個努力所以這個部分包括公務人員帶頭加薪然後再來就是要鼓勵企業加薪然後也鼓勵所謂企業要分紅 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9313.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9333.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
市長我想你要用很這個現象你看到了我剛才都點出來了當然你認為說你剛才是提到如何這個企業要怎麼做政府要怎麼做讓這個我一直關心的這個中介中位數的這些族群讓它的成長性讓我們看到不是這個成長率那麼低 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9333.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9352.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
刚刚我们在讲的就是针对我们会觉得说平复的差距就会越拉越高虽然你一直照顾低薪的族群但是中位数的你也要去照顾他有 所以这个部分政府也有带头来做 谢谢否则 主席长我看到一个社会现象就是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9353.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9377.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
高薪階層遙遙領先中低薪資階層卻望塵莫及這個中位數的族群就是一直被這個壓縮減少所以這個現象就反映出我們雖然看起來是平等但實質是不均所以所得差距在數字上你看是平穩 但實際上越拉越開 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9378.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9403.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
就我剛才一開始點出來的你平均60萬的這個族群竟然過了11年之後減少了一成所以這個現象我希望政府要看到這個現象對中位數的族群要如何的讓他請這些企業界要去幫他們加薪讓貧富所的差距不要再繼續擴大我覺得我們要去努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9404.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9411.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
是 謝謝你請為時間暫停一下我們現在請央行我們請央行 嚴副總裁副總裁我想房價持續還是高漲房貸的壓力全面擴散所以我們目前的房市政策是不是仍然微微達效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9433.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9456.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
讓我們年輕人的薪水全部就被這些貸款或者通膨吃光了尤其我們家戶負債比高達可支配所得的1.55倍在這樣艱困的環境下我們如何讓年輕人共享經濟的成長所以你打房打房的成效到底如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9459.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9475.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
報告委員 如果比較在去年我們看到去年下半年或去年七八月 九月 十月的時候整個房地產大家對於房地產的那種購買的熱潮或者是炒作熱潮現在是相對的平淡 平穩很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9476.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9503.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
其實我們也一直在注意說到底我們的政策它實際執行的效果上次剛才我也在回答委員的時候我們每一季我們都會去檢視我們的過去的政策的效果情形我們會做適當的調整所以打房的政策還是會滾動式的做一個檢查是 我們一直都是這樣子做未來還會不會提出其他的管制措施有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9504.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9532.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我刚才回答的意思是说这个房地产政策基本上还是由我们的货币政策理事会这边在讨论的所以我没办法在这边抱歉其实总监我还是希望你们对房市的热度你要持续去观察它因为年轻人现在真的买不起这个房子房贷的压力太大了我们刚才一直讲薪资又没有它的涨幅跟不上房价的涨幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9532.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9542.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
所以造成整個我們年輕人可以說吃不消了所以希望央行在這個方面持續密切的做觀察是 謝謝委員指示以上 謝謝好 謝謝林思敏在位我們現在休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10169.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10184.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
好 我們休息時間已經到了那我們請與會的官員請陸續就座接下來要開始質詢了好 接下來我們請下一位賴會員委員謝謝主席我們請國花會副主委 央行副總裁還有我們的主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10196.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10199.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
好 請陳竺介長然後沿岳副總裁高岳副主委委員好是 三位好我想在這裡要很誠摯的跟大家感謝身為執政黨的委員我必須要肯定就是整個行政團隊在國家財政穩定跟經濟發展上面的貢獻 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10224.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10245.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那我要跟大家做一個說明我是來自於非常偏鄉的一個區立委當然熟知主計長他非常了解在我的選區裡頭我們很多的農民 漁民還有就是基層的勞工也相當的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10245.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10268.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
那今天站在這裡其實不是來要漂亮的一個數字而是要來一個答案所以特別跟副主委做一個探討就是說台灣這幾年不管在GBT還是在股市的一個指數裡頭這個突破27000點其實這個數字都非常的漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10269.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10288.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
可是當我回到選區的時候,我的選民拉著我的手告訴我說委員,如果這樣,你都說有夠好有夠好,可是我們確實都面臨到非常多的一個困境我想在這裡就是要跟你做一個探討,這個是我們執政的一個危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10290.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10304.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
我不知道那個戶主委你對於我這些想法上我讓你看到一個台南市的中守稅的一個結算申報我們有37個區最有錢的這個是中西區101 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10310.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10331.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
這個101萬個人最最貧窮的是柳營區65.8萬你看光是一個台南37個區差距就這麼大那你如果用全國來比的話那我們從這個數字裡頭我們可以看得到政府的亮眼的數據跟人民這個冰冷的感受 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10333.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10353.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
回答我對於這樣子的一個社會氛圍你有什麼樣的一個感覺報告委員我覺得我們近年來因為台灣半導體產業的發展那跟傳產之間的確有一個非常比較大的落差就是我們的ICT產業其實因為數位轉型還有AI |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10356.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10373.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
創新運用的發展得非常好那我們產產某個程度上受到比如說大陸內捲還有一些關稅的一些效應其實事實上它會比較辛苦一點我們其實政府已經有注意到所謂產業分佈的兩極化的問題還有一個所以我們現在全力想要做的一件事情除了維持我們在III半導體的競爭優勢以外均衡台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10384.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10391.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
是當前政府施政的重點之一怎麼均衡 怎麼均衡台灣這個80%跟20%如何均衡是 所以第一個我們在產業發展中間我們一定要全力讓我們的傳產跟中小微企業都可以有AI賦能或者是我們儘量用不同的政策工具協助它可以轉型升級 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10410.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10428.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
好用不同的政策工具讓他轉型升級謝謝副主委那接著我請教那個我們的央行副總裁我們來講這個物價那我也不跟那個副總裁計較就是說這個GPT多穩定我也不問你說額外增進多少錢我想這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10431.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10456.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這些情況就是通膨通膨這個怪獸其實已經悄悄的就是降臨在我們市周圍它數字的平均成長是增加的可是在偏鄉是下降的我們從109年到104年的那個全國的農林業普查裡頭我以台南市台南市各區的農業收入為例你看這個5年當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10459.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10481.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
五年當中其實它總計它是升上來的它是升了10%可是如果你用每一個區來看的話這個柳營區它是降了12%六甲這是暴跌到17.34%斜甲這個龍躍跟榆木躍非常發達的一個地方是富士山 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10482.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10496.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
所以在這裡我想請問就是副總裁你覺得台灣現在的通貨膨脹這麼嚴重那這些報告上的數據真的是符合到台灣人民的一個感受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10497.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10517.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
那個報告委其實如果我們去比較台灣的通貨膨脹跟其他國家通貨膨脹其實我們可以看到我們在我們的圖裡面也看到其實我們相對其他國家來講我們試著讓它通貨膨脹已經控制到相對的比人家是平緩很多的一個情況當然我也知道就是說這個對 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10520.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10546.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
這個所得差距這邊還是會影響到所以副總裁你覺得這個通膨膨脹如果比起其他國家裡頭的話我們相信的是穩定的一個通膨所以這個是大家應該要接受也應該是可以接受的是不是這樣子我們也看到就是最近這幾年其實通膨已經慢慢在下降了 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10548.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10568.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
其實是我們預期今年和明年其實跟前兩年比我們的通膨低卷主委你現在就是貧富鹹酥差那麼多20%的日積超過80%超過所以說如果你是這樣子跟我回答的話那我本席是覺得很遺憾來 主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10570.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10597.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我想這個你的報告整體的成長10%有沒有看到背後就是在農業上就很多大農戶其實是賺錢的可是小農民反而是在退整體的平均數是不是被少數的高收入把它拉高了掩蓋了基層基層這些農民我是針對的農漁民來跟你講他們實際的一個困境我不知道主計長你的看法是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10600.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10625.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
本身這個部分他下降的部分因為因素是很多啦有可能就是說他的農地被徵收了然後資源我當然知道那這樣子他收入就會下降所以等於說經營的面積減少那不見得說他是他收入是這樣但總體來講他就是減少的那這個部分的我們也必須要深入去了解他到底是衰退的原因是什麼所以我們今年在114年我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10627.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10647.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
也又再一次五年的一次的一個農林普查我們今年就會再展開針對這個部分你有什麼好的方法還是說我們只要看這個科技業的20%那其他的百工百業的80%我們就是自我感覺良好就覺得說這個通膨的情況不嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10648.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10663.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
因為這幾個區大部分都是屬於農業區農業區的部分我們在農業部裡面有很多相關的一個補助和一個整個是在提升它一個相關收入的一些的措施在做所以這個要跨部 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10664.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10680.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
我跟你講農民的收入的問題出現了很大的很大的一個困難的時候好那三位都請回那我們接著就是請財政部部長因為財政部他的護稅在他身上所以他可以用 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10680.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10700.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
用最好的一個互稅的一個手法那是一個跨部會的手法所以在這裡我想請教部長部長剛剛在我的質詢的內容裡頭你已經發現到龍一鳴勞工慢慢已經是入不敷出那感覺努力的工作他也換不到溫飽甚至說他的收入在遞減請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10702.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10712.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
你感覺到今天的報告中的經濟的一個數據有沒有重大的一個落差跟現有的一個環境因為你不能告訴我說你遇到的都好人 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10715.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10720.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
不然你們家打掃了歐巴桑你問問他所以對於有關我們中低收入的民眾我們在付稅部分就盡量就減輕他們的負擔所以事實上有44%的申報戶在中所稅申報的時候是並沒有要達到繳稅的門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10736.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10757.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
然後適用5%的稅率的部分大概佔36%所以在這個部分其實是對於中低收入所得者他的付稅負擔基本上是蠻低的幾乎44%就全部申報戶裡面是不用繳稅的所以部長你看到了問題的一個核心有錢的人 收入的人其實他可以結稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10758.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10781.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
他不需要繳那麼多的稅可是你在這個中低下層的這些農漁民的時候他每一條稅他都跑不掉所以就是說有沒有辦法跟農業部做一個合作就是建立農漁民所得的一個追蹤的一個機制我們讓稅制讓稅制跟補貼跟金融的一個輔助可以精準的對焦 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10781.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10795.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我覺得這個其實是財政部可以做的我想委員這樣一個建議跟農業部去合作然後讓政府的相關的補助補貼可以更精準我想這個部分我們是可以跟農業部一起來討論沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10797.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10816.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
部長謝謝你我跟你講榮英明的收入在下降可是成本在上升了財政部你可以在能源稅在用油的補貼還有就是隆基的一個折舊抵稅的一個政策上我建議應該要有一個積極跨部會的合作的一個調整方案好的是謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10819.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10840.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
做得到吗我们再跟农业部再来讨论那事实上目前来说农业迷几乎大概都没有相关不是 有没有这样的一个决心钱都在你身上钱都在我身上钱不是都在我身上因为刚才央行副总裁他告诉我说这个通盘如果比起外国来我们算是基本上算是还好的是平稳的 对 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10841.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10865.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
那我為什麼要跟國外比呢我的國內我的農移民就是狀況這麼慘啊所以我就回到財政部裡頭所有的那個稅在你的身上是不是可以用一個比較合理的有錢人跟一般的農民他有一個不同的一個稅制的方式現在就有區別譬如說是用40%所得稅率的人他其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10866.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10869.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
只占了我們的1%但是他繳的稅是繳了全部英納稅額的50%的大概是這樣子那所以當然我跟你講那個交你那個40%的你就是給他再收到80%他也沒差啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10881.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10910.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
互稅的部分還要考慮其他的因素是所以部長我想就是要拜託你一個跨部會跨部會的一個合作那我們建立一個可以讓稅制更更好更周全的一個機制然後可以精準的對焦來幫助這些人我們在相關政策討論的時候都會跟部委一起討論三個月後提出來三個月後對委員這邊的一個提議我們來做一個給一個完整的書面報告給委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10910.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10919.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
好 我們希望不是一個量力的數字是個讓人民有感的一個數字而是有一個比較具體實際的數字好 謝謝謝謝賴委員接下來我們請黃國昌委員謝謝主席麻煩有請財政部部長還有主席總書主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10939.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10966.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
請莊部長請陳主席長委員好兩位好時間的關係不宜問候2016年我第一次踏入立法院加入財政委員會在財政委員會質詢的時候針對有關於所得分配不均到底要怎麼衡量的事情跟當時的主席長石素美石主席長有過意見的交換 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10967.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10980.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
在那一次諮詢以後我以前在中研院的前輩朱金義院士寫了一篇文章補上一堂課所得分配不均的衡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10981.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11007.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
朱金醫院士大概是國內經濟學界在討論貧富不均學界的態度我想這個大家不會否認他討論有關於所得分配不均的問題大概超過了10年跟世界上面研究的頂尖團隊在進行跨國的比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11009.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11031.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
他呼籲了超過十年結果我今天看到主計總書跟財政部的報告我必須要老實的講你們還在用早就被學界揚棄可以說是時期時代的時期時代的家戶調查所的五等份的方式來衡量貧富不均 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11034.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11054.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
過了這麼多年一點長進都沒有一點長進都沒有我們來看一看當初民進黨是怎麼在批評馬政府貧富差距創歷史新高2011年民進黨發言人陳其邁召開記者會發表馬總統您破紀錄了貧富差距篇 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11064.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11075.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
台灣所得最高的前5%跟最低的前5%有75倍的差距創歷史新高民進黨要請問馬總統你富了誰 窮了誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11081.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11099.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這是當初民進黨對馬英九所提出來的批評來請教一下知不知道現在我們用民進黨當年相同的基準前5%跟後5%差距到幾倍了主席長知不知道66點多倍來來來財政部部長知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11110.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11134.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
委員我們的資料是屬於課稅資料課稅資料這個是我問你知不知道就好了我說用相同的基準嘛用民進黨當年一模一樣的基準一模一樣的財稅收支資料來衡量現在的貧富差距當年痛罵馬英九啊因為達到75倍現在達到幾倍了知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11136.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11143.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
知道就說知道 不知道就說不知道現在是100多倍現在是100多多少倍來我秀數字給你看當年喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11152.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11167.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
馬英九說沒有啦我們要用家戶所得啊用五等份啊來進行比較啊痛批民進黨啊說民進黨混淆視聽結果呢民進黨那時候怎麼回擊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11167.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11191.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
五等份太粗糙了啦世界上沒有人在這樣比啊這已經是世界上面學界經濟學界在衡量貧富差距還用家戶所得的調查五等份這是世界的笑話當初民進黨是這樣回擊的來看一下結果你們搞到今天啊民進黨執政了以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11192.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11216.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
完全沒有要改進啊還是繼續用五等份啊還是繼續用當年民進黨痛批的五等份來進行所謂貧富差距的比較所以看起來好像增加的不多感覺差一點點都是零點幾零點幾個百分數在動因為你的調查方法卻有問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11218.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11239.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
租金醫院是倡議這件事情我說超過十年我敢說他是在台灣最有資格講貧富差距到底要怎麼衡量的專家他發表過的論文他參與過的data的研究那時候他去歐盟以前我還去 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11241.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11258.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
台大聽他告別以前的演說他又再強調了一次不要再搞這種無等份加護所得的了來 我給你看當初民進黨痛批馬英九75倍現在我看到最新的data到2023年 150倍150倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11263.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11287.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
如果當年民進黨在痛批馬英九75倍是窮了誰 富了誰 向財團靠攏那我現在的問題就來了那現在民進黨的150倍算叫什麼叫做照顧基層的民眾嗎如果民進黨當年批判馬英九的75倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11288.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11315.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
是窮了誰富了誰向財團靠攏我再問一個問題啊民進黨執政這幾年過來現在已經飆到150倍啊青出於藍更勝於藍啊結果今天交這種官方報告還用民進黨過去痛批的標準在文過是非啊交這種報告出來你們不會覺得丟臉喔你是在打臉當年的陳錫邁嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11318.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11339.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
還是在打臉當年的蔡英文這樣子的標準會不會太可笑還是當年陳其邁 蔡英文用這樣的方式來批評當初的執政黨根本就不公平 不正確 不對現在民進黨的態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11341.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11360.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
主席長簡要回答就好我們一般是用吉尼係數這是所謂世界也是通用的一個係數所以朱敬義是錯的所以當年民進黨是錯的濁是清非 勢是非非完全看民進黨佔什麼位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11361.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11387.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我如果站在野黨 基尼係數是大錯特錯我如果站執政黨 一定要用五等分位用基尼係數啊連朱金月式都是錯的民進黨好厲害好厲害標準變來變去今天這個報告我會邀請所有在網路上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11388.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11416.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
關心這個議題的台灣人民跟年輕人看一看看你們看得下去看不下去主席站起來了啦要救你沒有關係啦時間到了我聽得懂啦但是我希望你們自己回去好好想一想雙標程這個樣子雙標程這個樣子丟人現眼好 謝謝黃委員其實我已經延長兩分鐘了來 接下來請羅廷維委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11426.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11432.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
謝謝主席有請衛福部次長 央行副總裁來請嚴副總裁呂次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11442.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11460.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
好 今天的主題經濟成長全民共享如何縮短所得差距相對貧窮化的對策現狀真的是如此嗎我們來探討一下想先請教一下 衛福部次長你認為經濟成長讓全民共享是以科技電子業為主還是所有的產業都應該與路俱瞻的成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11462.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11489.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
包委員這個我想大家都知道經濟成長理論告訴我們一路必須要進展一路進展 謝謝全國上千萬的小資族 對不起全國上千萬的小資族薪水的薪資平時都是省吃儉用好不容易想買一點ETF或上市股票賺點股息或好不容易拿到了獎金想要共享那麼一點點經濟成長的時候卻一下被補充健保保費狠狠的抽一刀 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11490.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11500.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
奖金不到手补充的宝费先来收割这难道不是与共享经济果实的经济呢精神背道而驰吗 您觉得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11501.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11530.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
包委員關於這個問題我們都在廣徵各方的意見謝謝好 謝謝你因為我知道最近有說要就是暫緩但是補充保費的一個設計本意就是說要補這個漏洞但實際上中低薪與非固定收入的族群變成懲罰性的一個課稅我想希望這個一定要再思考出讓這些勞工小資族能夠真正受惠的一個健保改革我們支持改革 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11530.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11549.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們也支持健保應該要想辦法補漏洞但是不要有懲罰性的或者是拿小資族來開刀這個部分我還是要帶到希望衛福部一定要深切的反映到裡面內部去做檢討因為這一次的暫緩我們很擔心又再一次的重啟整個樣的計畫這部分可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11550.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11572.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
是 報告委員我們現在都會來廣徵各方的意見也非常感謝委員對於這個議題的關心謝謝謝謝市長今年4月央行楊總裁曾經說過百年免息債換債的惡霸美債形同倒債10月美國政府關門美債兩個月暴漲一兆現已38兆據公開的揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11573.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11598.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我國外會存底約80%甚至高達九成都是美債和歐債這樣的一個資產結構萬一歐美債性平下調利率動盪台灣會不會一夕的資產大幅的縮水央行是不是應該更積極的調整整個資產的結構多元的佈局我想分散風險副總裁您怎麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11600.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11623.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那個報告委員其實我們一直在做資產結構的調整我們會視國際的經濟情況的情況我們經常也在做這一方面的調整我們並不是永遠是維持在那個固定的水準我想在這邊還是要提醒滾動式的檢討政府一邊呼籲要全民共享經濟成果一邊卻讓全民的國家資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11625.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11645.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
曝險在這樣子的債務風險極高的一個歐美市場我想這樣子的政策是否會有點矛盾我還是希望你們要好好的檢討央行打房打了七八波結果一年來陸續有建商倒著倒死的死傷的傷整個建業愁雲慘霧一般的民眾還是買不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11646.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11674.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
到底在这一次呢我们看到连台北市房租都直直涨打房到最后结果不但没有全民共享经济成果反倒是压缩了一大票的民众产业年轻人的生存空间央行是不是该调整打房的措施不然打房继续这样下去既影响了经济成果更没有让全民共享这样的打房有意义吗我先请问副总裁您认为这一波的打房 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11675.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11680.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
有打到痛点有让所谓的房价下调吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11681.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11707.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那個報告委員央行的角度是看我們的我們不希望我們的信用多過度的集中在房地產這是我們一向的原則所以我們每一次也都會在理事會開會之前我們會檢視我們過去的政策的效果情形然後我們也在試單的時候我們會做了一些調整從過去的幾次經驗我們並不是一直在打而且打盤並不是央行的目的央行在管控他那個金融我們不希望金融資金融 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11708.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11729.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
但是你们政策上的执行跟实际上的我们实务上遇到的状况就有很大的差距当然央行有央行的策略但是政府赖总统说的要协助青年能够买房要打房让房价不要这么高我们看不到今天如果你是在打击这些投资客 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11730.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11758.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
甚至是二亿炒房的建商我们支持这样的打房拜托你多打你打100波我也支持但现在的打房就本席所看到从2016年到现在整个房价的上升是百分之百幅度是百分之百之高而现在我们看到的有的建商倒了中小建商倒了大建商还是一样有办法在这个产业上继续的存活在 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11759.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11788.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
所以你根本就不是让整个整体的房价下降我们看到的是民众还是买不起房房价并没有降只是比较少人买了这样的打房政策我认为要检讨拜托真正打到痛点打到投资客打到炒房真正让房价下跌才是我们希望看到的我们希望央行这边真的要好好的去探讨一下谢谢委员的指导 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11791.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11798.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
謝謝羅委員接下來我們請顏寬恆委員12點我們就開放會場用餐謝謝主席各位烈士官員大家早主席有請財政部莊部長主席處陳主席長來請莊部長陳主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11822.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11841.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
委員好部長好 主委長吉尼係數是國際間最常用來衡量財富分配比較均衡程度的統計指標財政部最新公布的資料台灣112年每戶吉尼係數是0.339每年每人係數是0.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11848.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11865.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
但這個數據保持一個懷疑的態度110年主計總數公布的數據台灣吉尼系數是0.606那短短的兩三年這個系數突然縮小到0.339根本是不可能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11866.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11880.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
主席長還有部長可不可以分別跟我們說明一下你們各自的算法是怎麼算不然為什麼差距這麼大無法理解是部長先相關的數據財政部長基本上都是依據主席總書的公告因為這是有主席總書的權責不好意思 再說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11884.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11899.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
也就是說相關的數據這些所得都是我們是根據主計總處這邊所公布的資料那在8月15號的時候他也相關也有相關的公告我想這個部分跟委員做這樣的一個說明好 那請主席講 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11901.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11927.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
跟委員報告因為剛剛您講的那個0.606是屬於財富的部分有包括家庭財富所得的部分那這個部分是我們每個家戶所得的一個分配情形113年度的經理係數是0.341加每戶的部分那每人的部分是0.277這個部分那如果說是五等分的差別倍數就是3.92這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11929.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11956.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
不是 那兩者就是說剛剛部長你說是依照主席總書提供的資料去做這個計算那你要清楚的說明啊不然說民眾看到這些數據誤以為說我國的評估差距會有改善事實上沒有改善嘛 對不對從75倍到150倍評估差距那麼大然後用這樣子的一個數據沒有清楚的說明造成誤解那透明的數據解釋對於提高民眾的信任跟理解是非常重要的好不好 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11957.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11986.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
好的 我想我們可以再做進一步的說明謝謝委員長部長你先請回部長先請回那請國發會副主委主席不好意思有請請高副主委主席長我再請教主席長是113年我國薪水佔GDP比重是多少那還有國發會副主委你怎麼定義低薪勞工這兩個請那個主席長先回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11991.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12002.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
那個我說主席長是請教你說薪水佔GDP的比重是多少這個部分薪水佔GDP的比重這個部分好像43%左右確實的數據是多少43%左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12016.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12035.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
從1990年的百分之我們薪資佔GDP的比例薪資佔GDP的比例到底是多少我們現在是用受雇報酬佔GDP的部分是百分之40.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12041.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12049.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那好那妳剛剛說我國經常性薪資中位數是多少3.8萬是不是這個是在9月份的時候是3萬8啦3萬8 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12051.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12076.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
有一些余數你沒有講啦就是37.多37274因為這是111年的113年度的那我們的部分現在到9月份平均是47,0001到9月的平均是47,000然後它的中位是38,000左右那低於這個低於平均數的有多少佔了多少70%有69.多將近七成啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12079.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12096.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
好 所以這個代表說勞動者所得未能隨著經濟成長同步增長對不對是不是這樣子但是我們中位數也是到3萬8中位數就是表示有50以上的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12097.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12113.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
所以說反映出這個收入分配的不均台灣薪資成長未能有效反映出生產力的提升造成收入集中在少數的部分超過七成的壽星的這些階級它是低薪的比中位數低 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12113.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12136.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
因為他有一部分就是說基層勞動者他的這個收入收入停滯增長停滯不是收入停滯加劇的這個貧富差距對不對其實貧富差距算跟各國比起來我們算也不是很高的部分不是很高是多高還不夠低 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12139.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12144.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
三萬八是否足以支撐民眾的基本生活夠不夠到底夠不夠三萬八是中位數這樣子就看你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12162.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12178.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
對嘛 所以就是每個這個都有不同的環境還有不同的所在地還有這些支出都不同還有現在這個通膨所以到底夠不夠那我想就是說有很大的進步空間不是在這邊大家在這邊爭執我們要的是說怎麼樣來處理薪資成長跟經濟結構之間的這個矛盾問題要如何來解決 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12189.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12206.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
衛福部方面他也有針對中低收入戶的部分有特別給予給他一些的輔助還有低薪的部分我們有保障基本工資所以這個部分還有我們也鼓勵企業加薪這些措施等等都是在提升我們整個薪資的一個水平這個好了 主席長妳請回請國發會委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12215.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12231.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
副主委經濟成長模式從勞力密集走向資本化 知識化那貧富差距惡化是一個我們看到的結果所以所得從分配是指政府透過稅收還有透過社會福利支出等方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12232.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12260.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
例如房屋津貼還有育兒津貼中低收入補助或長照支出但是我們台灣的製衡機制不完備以上市貴高階主管跟基層倍數的持續擴張來擴大比例所以目前沒有辦法避免請問國發會針對這一類的現象有什麼具體的政策或調整這種製衡不平等的一個收入分配有什麼辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12262.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12274.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我想這個問題可能要從多元併進的方式我們今天報告裡面也有講到除了用租稅的這些手段還有一個社福的支出的平衡以外我想產業結構的均衡發展也非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12277.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12294.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
然後薪資水準鼓勵企業提升薪資水準願意把經濟成長的成果分享給員工也很重要所以我們目前政府事實上是四個面向齊頭併進的方式我們希望可以達到我們剛才委員希望達到的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12295.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12317.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
對啦 我也建議國發會就考慮加大對這些技術教育跟技能訓練這個部分然後尤其在對於中小企業的這些領域製造更多高薪的機會那希望國發會可以在更注重這方面的發展好不好好 是的 謝謝委員主席有請衛福部衛福部 呂次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12328.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12331.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
委員你好次長好委員好這個衛福部好像很狀況外 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12343.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12367.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
我們的主題是要縮短貧富差距但是衛福部還提出健保補充 保費調整要將利息 股息 出金等補充保費要增加然後把現行的每月結算改為年度計算一年累計超過兩萬就要收取然後發現方向不對就在當日七個小時之內就匆匆忙忙的這樣子的急轉彎喊卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12368.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12395.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
是因為被這個政策本身就有問題還是受到什麼樣的一個責難包委員 我們現在目前都會來多方來廣正各方意見當初在構思的時候 在討論的時候不是有請教了專家學者嗎是哪一位專家包委員 因為我們這個是有關於財務方面有關健保的部分我想其實平常我們大概都會有沒有徵詢金管會 當初 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12397.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12414.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
不過委員因為這不是我負責的業務啦我負責社會福利 這是兩對啦 所以說儘管會作為中華民國這個掌管所有投資人相關事務的機構但是你們好像沒有詢問嘛我問過主委啦 他說沒有 不知道看報才知道的 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12417.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12433.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
所以說在制定政策應該要更謹慎更嚴謹不然的話我想簽一法動全身的這樣子的一個政策你只要一條掌小資族的錢你們也要搶 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12433.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12450.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
那導致我們很多民眾會把這些資金全部都移轉到另外的一個投資或者是國外那就連這些房價什麼的也會跟著漲對不對那簽一法動全身所以我們看到衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12451.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12470.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
這樣子的一個草率的行為然後就當日七個小時之內就被打槍我想這部分我們不樂意我們不想再看到這樣的情況好不好 請衛部好好檢討 謝謝非常感謝委員 謝謝謝謝顏委員接下來我們請葉元之委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12487.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12493.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
主席要慢慢請財政部長來 請莊部長委員好財政部長請教一下我看到應該是財政部發出來的數據到10月為止我們現在的稅收是3,884億對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12516.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12528.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
這是全國的到10月底的總稅收那中央大概是2兆4613億我沒有在分中央地方啦不要每次都在浪費我們時間好不好妳是在拖時間喔沒有我問妳說我們現在稅收是3兆2684億年減0.2%嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12535.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12557.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
沒錯嘛這是你們發布的數據啦那財政部也講就是說如果全年要達標就是達到本來的預估非常困難嘛對吧有挑戰性很有挑戰性那我想問一下因為按照各項數據都顯示我們今年的經濟成長率是不錯啊現在經濟成長率多少主計總數的推發布的是4.45但今年可能會超過5% |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12565.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12567.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
超過5%在經濟成長5%的情況之下我們的預期的稅收居然無法達標像我們現在現在在普發1萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12577.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12602.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
卓院長雖然一開始很反對都說一下說這個是什麼大家拿去買遙控飛機跟冰箱一下就沒了民進黨說這個是配合中共窮台策略毀線亂政 掏空國庫再留子孫 罵得很慘但現在發的時候很高興就說這個叫做什麼行政院發還是政府相挺我這個態度批辯讓大家也是很訝異但是我今天不是要跟你討論這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12603.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12612.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
重點是後來態度批辯之後院長的講法是說這叫做我們將經濟果實跟大家分享 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12613.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12630.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
換言之 稅收有沒有超出預期跟經濟果實正相關經濟要成長 稅收才會變多才有辦法跟大家一起共享但現在財政部講說經濟成長率你剛剛說主計總數的統計是5%可是我們的稅收會不如預期為什麼會這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12636.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12658.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
跟委员报告最主要是因为我们114年的税收比113年的实征数也就是我们的预算数比实征数成长很多以中央来说就超过了947我们在讲预期预期就是预算数你在年初的时候你年初的时候预期的经济成长率也不是5% |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12660.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12667.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
對啊 你在年初的時候那時候我看很多預期經濟成長率的2%但現在實際上是5%所以我們的經濟成長有超出預期所以理論上來講稅收也應該超過預期所以會比你的預算數增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12675.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12697.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
時收會比預算數增加但現在是經濟成長超出預期但是稅收並沒有超出預期甚至於達標都困難所以為什麼會有這樣落差預算數的編列是在去年就開始籌編的是在去年的上半年開始籌編那你預估那你那時候去年上半年預估今年經濟成長率多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12697.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12714.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
我們不是預估今年成長率我們是看整個上市櫃公司的一個財報所以我們在去年的上半年就開始預估然後到下半年送進立法院審議的通過以後這是您所謂的預期其實就是預算數就是預算數那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12715.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12731.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
114年的预算数比113年的实增数就增加了947亿947亿就增加了那你一定有一个预估一定是预估才会有预算对 没有错那我现在讲的是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12732.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12760.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
经济成长超出预期那为什么税收没有超出预期这么简单就问这么简单的问题而已我刚刚也讲院长讲说要经济成长有果实才能够全民共享团税于民那现在为什么税收没有成长问的问题就这么简单跟委员报告像中所税金所税它的税收今年的收入会到明年才会实现所以那个税收它是递延的 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12762.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12787.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
也就是說今年他賺的錢要到明年的中所稅跟銀所稅繳納的時候去實現的所以是意思是說去年的經濟比較差是不是所以我們今年還稅於是因為去年超徵去年超徵是因為前年經濟比較好前年的經濟比較好所以去年超徵然後今年普發所以我們是因為所以你預計明年應該會超徵是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12790.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12813.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
所謂的超徵是第一個我在編預算的時候我們要以各個稅務來分析他的收入的情況部長不要一直玩文字遊戲啦不是文字遊戲我必須要把它說清楚現在的問題就是全民看到了經濟成長但是稅收沒有成長就是可能有一些人他賺錢沒有想像中那麼多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12815.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12829.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
應該是這樣 有一些人因為我看到你今年的十月的稅收最多也是證交稅沒有玩股票的這些人也許他繳的稅不多因為他經濟受到衝擊所以今天大家才會來這邊討論這個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12831.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12848.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
所以我覺得應該要因為來不及了其他部會我認為應該要稍微要注意一下不要被那個數字好像就被他迷幻了啦好 謝謝好 謝謝葉委員接下來我們請楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12862.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12867.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
謝謝主席 楊瓊發言首先請主席總處請陳主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12876.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12891.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
委員好主席長好主席長我們根據主計總署11月11號所做的公佈今年前9個月你全體受雇員工經常薪的薪資平均是47,751元所公佈的是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12892.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12920.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
但是我們看到高達將近七成的員工他的薪資是低於這樣子的一個平均值那顯示在我們整個平均的薪資他已經失真了數字看起來很亮眼但是掩蓋了薪資分配嚴重偏斜的一個現實所以政府以平均薪資作為政績的指標但是實際上實質薪資年增只有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12923.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12932.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
1.21%落後的物價指數民眾所受到的是它不是加薪而是生活越來越困難因為你的物價指數在這個10月份是1.48%所以在這樣的情況之下本席要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12939.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12954.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
如果我們長期是以平均數來作為公布的一個指標而不是揭露整個中位數或者是分位數的一個變化那等於是人民的生活呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12955.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12976.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
我們只有用統計這樣子的一個淡化低薪的一個樣態因為民眾顯示出來他的生活是困苦的所以本期要請教主計長當七成的受僱者薪資是低於平均值的時候那麼這個平均數還能夠代表全民嗎請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12977.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12996.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我也要跟委員再說明一下我們會有公佈所謂的中位數那中位數就是50%以上這個數字那以往中位數我們都是按年報一年報一次就是去年就是將近52萬又有分全國和全體的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12996.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13011.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那今年我們開始就公佈按月公佈中位數那目前中位數就是38,000那就是50%以上的人民就是說他是達到38,00038,000這個水準這個部分那所以就是說74%47,000沒有達到但是50%有達到38,000 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13023.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13051.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
所以換句話說如果僅以平均數為主的指標是沒有辦法展現我們人民生活的樣態因為這個會影響到資源的分配的這個問題那所以 既然我們現在中位數但是分位數呢因為如果我們揭露產業的薪資方向那分位數是不是可以更明確在整個你的數字量化出來之後可以讓資源分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13052.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13075.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
比較不會傾斜 請做說明分位數的話我們是按計公佈是沒有每月但是我們有按計公佈來做一個比較就是整個一個是 所以這個部分也是說我們在比較的時候不是只有單一就是平均數還會看中位數然後三個月一次三個月計一次的一個分位數這樣來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13076.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13095.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
所以主要目標也就是政府公布數字是要結果論讓民眾在政府的資源可以受到照顧而且據實能夠受到照顧而不是顯性的黑數所以在這樣的情況之下我們看到民間的學者跟公民團體來預估 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13097.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13120.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
年收入低於可支配所得中位數六成是貧窮縣那實際上生活在貧窮縣以下的人口約佔總人口的12到13%他大概是280萬到300萬人但是我們看到現在政府所分配資源的部分低收入戶的25.9萬人中低收入戶的24.2萬人換句話說大概50萬人他是獲得的補助所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13127.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13146.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
還有超過250萬的人他是貧窮黑素但是政府是沒有看到的他是沒有得到資源的一個協助所以本期要跟你討論的就是說針對這樣的一個現象針對這樣的現象我們是不是有你源頭國發會今天有在這邊嗎國發會 來 高副座 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13150.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13161.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
所以主席長在這邊他的數字出來告訴說我們還有250萬人是得不到政府的一個協助我們該當怎麼辦你要經濟方案要怎麼做來 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13163.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13176.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
我想我們最近幾年連續十年調高那個最低薪資基本工資就是一個做法就是針對這些在貧窮線以下的你答非所問本期是告訴你有組計長出來的250萬人他得不到政府的資源他政府也沒有看到這個我們國防會這一塊要怎麼去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13185.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13200.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
好 我想這可能要跨部會包括那個衛福等等的就是我們可能要再統計一下好 你拿一個跨部會本期暫許請你將實際的數字我們已經量化出來給你要怎麼樣去照顧這250萬人的貧窮黑線 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13205.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13206.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
謝謝楊委員接下來我們請黃珊珊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13237.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13242.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
好 謝謝主席我想請衛福部還有財政部好 那請莊部長呂次長委員好衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13259.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13270.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
好 兩位好我想今天看到一個很傷心的新聞也就是有一位80歲的母親照顧重度身心障礙的孩子超過50年 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13271.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13299.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
然後因為他自己的身體也沒有辦法再負荷所以他帶著讓孩子早點離開人世那台北地院雖然極盡所能的減刑還是判了兩年半然後希望見請總統賴清德來特赦我想這個案子是長照的悲歌也是我們衛福部長期以來我們希望接下去人民不應該無助到這種程度啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13301.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13310.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
也就是說衛福部最近我看到部長開始在擔心將來的健保所以找了很多方法找錢然後還沒出師就生先死就丟起來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13317.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13332.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
接下來健保當然是台灣人最重要的後盾但是長照政府做了這麼多的長照我們還是沒有辦法挽回這樣的生命所以次長看到這個案子我們應該做些什麼除了請求總統特赦之外還有多少長照被割證在上演 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13342.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13367.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
非常感謝委員對於這個案子的關心那我覺得那個真的是也非常遺憾啦那個有出現這個漏洞那衛福部責無旁貸那我跟委員報告現在他這個案子我們現在目前會來做一些這個裡面有一些有關於高負荷家庭的一個我們的長照2.0一般的民眾大部分都可以cover到現在cover不到的就都重症 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13368.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13382.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
叫做這種長期照顧最嚴重的是他可能也沒有能力也沒有辦法或根本不想請外籍移工所以弄得自己身心俱疲最後只能選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13384.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13399.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
把自己的孩子先送走我覺得這個才是我們今天要碰到的問題就是長照不剛剛只是每一天的這種簡單的喘息服務而已其實最嚴重的是這種重症的長期照護對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13400.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13418.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
沒錯 特別是七到八級這個重點所以除了你們在找健保的裁員其實我們在這一次立法院黨團台灣民眾黨已經提出了長照保險法提出了一年了長照保險其實就是跟健保的概念一樣我們年輕的時候出一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13419.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13434.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
然後share這些可能尤其是像這種重症沒有辦法被現有的所謂的長照2.0照顧到的人他也許將來我們老的時候因為少子化的關係我們怎麼樣照顧我們自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13435.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13446.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
所以長照保險是我們推動的我不知道衛福部有沒有想過要不要推動之前的邱太元部長說他去日本看過他們也正在考慮市長 你在衛福部這麼久你們的態度咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13451.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13464.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
包委員有關於財務的部分我想我們現在當然是稅收制我們這個有關於你們現在的稅收就是花光就沒了包委員我們現在目前2033億我們按照這個估計其實即使在10年後我們現在目前也大概有剩餘還可以撐著住但是10年後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13473.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13499.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
七百七十四不知道我們十年之後我們估計還可以剩還有七百七十四七百七十四你覺得台灣人那時候我們現在超高齡社會那時候還可以撐多久這樣的長照杯羹還會不會存在包委員我們現在目前就是各方的意見我們都會來請聽長照保險是台灣必須要走的路所以我想財政部長在這我們現在每一年要溢出到所謂的長照2.0大概要多少錢部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13502.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13521.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這個部分因為長照是各個有相關的稅源這個統計的數字我們會再提供給你們我們每年900多億有兩種稅一種是房地合一稅一種是菸酒稅我們常常說這兩個稅都是不公不義的稅結果我們拿去做長照 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13523.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13544.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
而且不穩定的稅來源並不正當的稅為什麼一個是炒作房地一個是鼓勵人家又喝酒又抽煙不好啦我要說的是對政府非常認真的在走裁員走長照但是它不是一個長久之計尤其是房地合一稅去年的狀況怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13547.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13555.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
去年還行 但今年的房地合一所以其實跟預算數是低的差很多對 因為跟房地產的交易的狀況有關係我們請嚴副總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13562.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13579.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
副總裁 你們第七次信用管制然後現在台灣說什麼房地產急凍然後房地合一稅目前也算 剛剛部長已經說了房地合一稅不好那是不是在央行打房成效著住的關係呢我想我們的 我們對房地產的政策這是你滿意的結果嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13589.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13617.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
因為這是交易量的減少交易量減少有很多原因我想我們注重的是我們對於金融機構授信不要過度集中房地產這是我們的原則所以其實現在的問題就是我們兩個的政策真的就叫做左手打右手我們這邊拚了命的在讓年輕人買房推了新清安然後讓金融機構拚命的借錢給民眾來買房子然後我們的央行做信用管制然後現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13618.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13640.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
房地合一稅不夠了然後我們的長照的錢可能也會不足對吧這是一個雞生蛋蛋生雞的問題所以莊部長接下去你的房地合一稅不好易租不到長照的錢還有現在我們上次問的住宅基金也需要這些相關的房地合一稅的撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13641.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13643.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
現在房地合一稅的數量會顯然減少你會預期達到我們預算額度會短處多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13649.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13673.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
这个部分要等到年底才真正的会出来但是跟委员报告房地合一税的目的是希望就是说在房地交易的时候必须要克相关的税收而且要抑制所谓的短期交易就是不能投机就是在所谓抑制炒房那新清安基本上是辅助他只要不炒房这个税就收不到对啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13674.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13700.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
對 所以至於長照的裁員究竟要以稅收制或保險制當然是有衛福部去做評估我要講的是這三件事情其實是卡在一起政府要有長治久安的政策尤其是我還是要強調長照不應該建立在不穩定的裁員不公益的裁員炒作房地產的不應該是長照長期依靠的裁員 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13702.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13729.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
衛福部必須要去正視的是我們怎麼樣讓長照成為將來百姓自己掏錢我願意自己掏錢養我自己的未來我們不要再看到一個母親要殺死自己的孩子來解決她的問題然後今天大家社會再來討論這件事這件事已經討論了快十幾二十年了長照保險可能是唯一的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13731.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13747.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
當年大家說健保健保我們現在花盡了力氣來補健保但是健保讓台灣成為最安全的地方之一同樣的長照如果依照現在這樣的制度或現在這樣的財源不穩定的情況下我們的未來的老年其實是非常可怕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13748.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13767.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
而且現在21世紀2025年還有今天這樣的悲哀我覺得衛福部要把長照保險納入你們未來10年20年的考慮第二個裁員的部分這個稅不穩定菸酒稅更不穩定更不應該拿來做長照的裁員好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13769.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13784.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我希望這政策不要自己打自己第二個政策不要說出來第二天就不見了第三要推新政策可以先跟大家溝通最重要的是不要推出來一個惹人笑話好嗎好 謝謝非常感謝黃委員 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝黃委員接下來我們請羅明財委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13800.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13819.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
主席各位主略習慣的好主席可否請財政部中央部長主計總署陳主計長央行原副總裁國家發展委員會也一起來一下經濟部何次長勞動部李次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13823.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13848.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
衛福部呂次長好 那請中部長 陳主席長嚴副總裁 何次長 李次長 呂次長委員好今天這個議題非常非常的重要經濟成長讓全民共享政府如何縮短所得差距及改善相對貧窮化之對策我們每個人在這邊其實責任重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13850.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13878.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
第一个问题就是普发现金大家都领到了没开始领了那今年的税收继续超增明年的经济成长率来那个主席长多少今年是比较好一点是今年多少现在目前我们初估是4.5左右但是我们还要再修正大概差不多将近6 去近于6 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13879.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13897.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
六到七啊趨近六啦趨近六所以今年的表現非常的亮麗可以看到今年雖說還是繼續超增的那就會衍生很多問題接著我問第二個問題那你明年的經濟成長率你預計是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13898.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13923.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
预计是2.81因为今年基金高了你是2.81嘛事实上你低估了有很多的研究数据报告大概可以成长6继续持续的成长有赖各部会大家要多认真一点为什么因为现在AI的时代已经来临了经济部 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13926.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13941.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
你們第一線你們最清楚現在整個全世界川普總統都在推AI他現在全世界已經到處到處募集了幾兆美元準備要到美國投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13945.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13969.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
目前他陸陸續續 陸陸續續大概大概有一兩兆美元左右你吃米不知道米多少他已經獲得了全世界包括日本很多國家18兆的美元其實繼續在成長我請問一個最簡單的問題他收了20兆的美元以後他投資美國對台灣有沒有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13970.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13993.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
當然會有影響影響什麼 哪個產業當然我們的自動訊半導體產業我們的台積電半導體相關AI周邊大概45間這個以後都是台灣變成是AI的重症所以你剛剛講說2%多你看著辦好了明年你編是這樣編可是明年經濟成長率可能要6%以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13994.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14021.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
所以這些經濟的成長成果你要給全民 繞回來這個議題部長 經濟持續在成長可是台灣的貧富懸殊越來越大富者越富 貧者越貧集中就是在好在半導體以及AI相關還有這些生物科技方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14021.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14042.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
可能ICT的產業可能會比較好這些會集聚的好其他的傳產的部分是產的一大糊塗包括央行一直打房的房地產現在越來越差所以其中這些好的部分我們要怎麼樣來看待未來就是要持續 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14043.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14057.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
把好的經濟成果照顧需要照顧的剛剛講的孤苦的老人莫忘世上苦人多很多很多的小老百姓一樣需要這一萬塊所以部長 總部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14060.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14076.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
今年如果稅收持續反正就是稅收超增你講稅季剩餘也可以如果今年的稅收持續超增今年要不要普發現金End 我還沒講完 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14077.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14091.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
我在這裡預告明年如果造成的情況明年台灣的經濟成長率還是會持續成長經濟會還是會大爆發可是產業各方面持續嚴重失衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14092.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14107.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
中層低層還是需要你的這一萬塊本席主張只要稅收繼續超徵持續普發現金要變成常態化部長能不能做得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14109.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14137.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
跟委員報告沒有所謂的稅收超增是時增數超過預算數那至於什麼原因我們大概已經講過反正意思一樣就是稅收超增預算數的編列的時候持續的好 錢就多出來了那今年也稅收超增明年我預計也會持續超增你要不要還稅於民照顧人民其實不是還稅的概念最重要的精神就是普發現金讓人民有感你不要客氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14138.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14158.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
你之前都講說怎麼樣什麼自愛難行還有什麼違憲什麼講一大堆那個大家聽不進去的那請問今年發了沒現在正在執行正在發了那我告訴你發你就大方一點不要遮遮掩掩川普準備要發每個人2000塊美金你知道為什麼因為社會基層苦哈哈的人一大堆主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14166.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14175.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
以前一個雞腿便當70塊現在一個雞腿便當多少錢130好130 漲那麼多你的薪資漲了多少今天漲多少給你調10%便當已經漲了100%了你漲10%那個杯水車薪所以勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14195.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14203.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
現在基本薪資明年會不會再調漲我們已經確定 院長已經核定明年會調漲到2萬9500塊月薪2萬多2萬95002萬9500 OK那漲幅是幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14211.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14230.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
過去10年來累計基本工資月薪已經累計調高了47%你不要算10年去年跟今年比的話漲幾%將近4%去年跟今年對 去年跟今年漲10%4%去年跟今年比漲4%可是我們的便當錢已經漲90%了那差了80%你要不要補給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14241.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14253.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
不知道委員講那個便當90%調漲是以哪一個來算 舉例啦舉例啦 舉例剛剛竹汽廠不講給你聽嗎我現在要跟你們滾滾出工我要跟你們這些官員講的是說社會一直在改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14259.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14281.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
所有的基層小老百姓壓力是很大不管房子漲 不管物價漲他們有個希望所以我們政府能做的就是所以說超徵你趕快來給這些需要的人再來講一些孤獨的老人孤老死的這誰負責 衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14284.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14302.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
現在孤獨老人 台灣有多少包委員 我們現在目前的估計應該全台灣有大概70萬70萬 明年會不會更多按照我們現在目前高齡人口5%的成長當然是會增加好 你講得很好那我請教你再過5年的台灣是什麼樣的光景 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14303.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14311.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
包圍我們現在 古老的部分有多少包圍因為我們現在目前的那個現在是19.64嘛對 按照現在那個國發會的統計呢我們現在會到24然後現在接下來到2050預計會到大概4343是多少人口要多一半啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14318.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14322.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
要炒一半所以現在台灣面對的問題因為大家都常常講政治我比較不喜歡講那個我們拉回來講現實面遇到這些問題台灣怎麼辦所以央行你要把市場做大把餅做大比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14339.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14365.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
本席所提的保險法146條之事你就把它對海外的比例條件一半就會回來13兆13兆留在台灣投資不是很好嗎央行對外匯的這些錢回來的態度是怎麼樣另外一個很重要新加坡沒有移政稅泰國沒有移政稅杜拜沒有移政稅莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14368.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14380.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
本席準備提一個國家的十年競爭方案其中有一項就是移政稅要調降到10%你贊不贊成央行的態度是怎麼樣 請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14382.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14407.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
怡政稅其實就有世代公平的部分那當然委員說您要提一個十年的方案那我們來拜讀可以啦我來提希望你也準備一下方案不要說沒對策什麼的趕快提出來這個都是扶國立民的讓台灣脫胎換骨讓台灣站得住你看連揮打現在都在落戶在台灣我們要對台灣有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14408.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14419.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
要好好把市場做大 把餅做大來 央行現在一些錢 匯錢匯進來你們都擋來擋去你們真的是自由化嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14422.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14443.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
委員 我覺得您的問題好像不是很明確因為我們的外匯已經自由化我們還是有一些管理那些管理我們也會隨著時空環境做調整所以我不覺得說我們有真的在擋人家擋人家一定是不符合我們的規定好 你不擋我們就說一聲謝謝你現在外匯存底是6000多億美元6000多億這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14451.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14480.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
外匯存底你有百分之幾要拿來做主權基金我們沒有要就是說這個案子是國發會在主導沒有 行政院行政院那邊已經跟你講了你大概拿多少比例要出來做主權基金我講這個我們沒有討論到央行的外匯存底到底是怎麼去比率是怎樣至少我不知道所以副總裁還不知道你回去問總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14481.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14495.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
我想我們在這邊已經講過我們要用有償支付的方式大概是外匯存底的百分之多少要拿來當作主權基金抱歉 因為目前我們也沒有討論到這個議題過你回去問總裁有來跟我講一下訊息好不好謝謝再回應我們委員來 謝謝謝謝盧委員接下來我們請邱志維委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14537.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14545.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
謝主席 是不是請財政部莊部長金管會沒有金管會那就莊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14549.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14576.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
委員好 部長好幾個問題請教就是說這個所謂賴總統的整個政策大運也是均衡台灣均衡台灣 均衡台灣叫世代均衡區域均衡產業均衡所得均衡各部位各施其職產業均衡是經濟部世代均衡可能國發會做長期規劃所得均衡當然這個今天的主題是財政部來主政 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14577.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14596.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
那有很多的方式可以達到 可是我看到你的報告通常是比較長期性而且正在做的你看那個高市這個首相 日本新任的首相他就任首相之後成立一個國家經濟成長戰略部國家經濟成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14601.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14617.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
這個你的所得才能均衡成長之外所得才能均衡所以地方創生他們也同時在所以應該有一個專職的機關啊怎麼樣讓國家整體的新智能夠成長是跨部位的協調而不是單做你這個財政部的主管業務而已部長您同意嗎我想委員對這個部分非常的重視那當然就財政部來講我們是透過稅制的部分來做一個所謂的均衡性比如說對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14630.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14648.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
中低收入戶我們減輕他在租稅的負擔所以這個部分在所得稅制優化裡面呢不斷的在往前推進那這個部分在我們的報告裡面也都有寫到可是用租稅的手段嘛對這是租稅手段那當然還有所謂的移轉性政府有移轉性的支出那就透過社會福利的方式來輔助我們中低收入戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14651.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14663.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
讓他們可以獲得比較多的政府的補償這是疑轉性的支出你說出了這個付稅政策應該所有的各種世代各種所得都能夠受惠特別是相對低的所得 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14665.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14690.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
所得在租稅負擔上給予減輕那另外政府所收的稅收呢然後透過移轉性的支出給需要輔助跟補助的民眾可以獲得他們生活上一定的必須的一些所得這個部分是另外有其他部會再來做譬如說衛福部所以你知道高市首相上台短短一個月他的內閣的滿意度接近八成 七成多 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14691.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14718.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
就是說他間集旅集一決定政策馬上由他的部大臣馬上對外公佈整個細節整個政策內涵讓所有民眾都了解一清二楚然後間集旅集這才是一個政府該有的效率跟效果那前天我看了一個文章關於這個TISATISA您了解嗎那個金管會跟財政部有不同立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14719.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14733.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
金款會希望能夠這個是屬於這個低風險或者是長期投資特別對年輕人比較一定的吸引力對不對他為了這個養老這個退休第三支柱 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14734.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14759.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
我覺得利益良善 但為什麼開戶那麼少經管會是希望說這個能夠有租稅優惠包括這個綜合所得稅的扣除額等等財政部好像反對 這我沒有特定立場我只要先請教部長這個如果對青年在未來的儲蓄有更多的幫助我覺得經管會他講也有道理但你如果從租稅公平的角度來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14762.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14770.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
這個已經有在置入上面已經有設計了不需要再從綜合所得稅綜合所得稅扣除而來處理那我想請教您的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14772.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14800.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
從委員說就是所謂的TISA那TISA這個部分呢是金管會目前在推動的一個新的一個措施希望有這個退休制度第三支柱那對於這個TISA的投資他所獲得的租稅優惠的部分我們也都把它整理出來給了金管會然後讓他在推動這個TISA的時候可以讓投資的民眾可以理解也就是說我們現在其實我們的優惠租稅的優惠制度其實是比日本或其他國家NISA更好那一個讓他們可以理解來做這方面的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14801.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14819.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
日本沒有租稅優惠嗎日本有 但他們沒有我們這麼好所以你說現行現行不需要另外再加相關的租稅優惠都已經羅列出來了可是為什麼的誘因還是不夠那個開戶的這個數量還是不多對 那我覺得可以再多加以宣導跟推廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14821.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14835.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
另外一個議題就是兒少帳戶兒少帳戶這個部分有很多低收入的家庭我們也協助他們這個部分將近有四層位開戶這個是衛福部主管還是財政部來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14837.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14851.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
應該是衛福部的部分衛福部那個女市長在市長這個應該對於孩童的未來這帳戶應該是要每一個需要住的家庭應該要開戶為什麼開戶率那麼低呢謝謝 我們現在目前的兒童帳戶現在目前開戶率大概是八成有八成的嗎已經有八成的 包委員我們現在已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14862.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14883.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
那另外兩層沒有開戶的原因是什麼已經六層了那另外兩層沒有開戶的原因是什麼呢另外兩層沒有開戶的原因是什麼報告委員 我更正不是八層是六層對嘛 我說我掌握是四層從2018到現在還有四層沒有開戶沒錯那有沒有區域別它們集中在非都會區呢還是集中在中南部 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14884.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14894.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
包委員現在我們按照我們現在目前的區域分布其實基本上大概沒有特定的區域上的差異那你未來有沒有什麼具體的做法在對待的時間之內讓這個市城能夠順利開戶包委員我們現在目前是這樣主要我們現在目前在地方政府這邊我們有那個社安網社安網這邊我們會來針對這些家庭會來有一些更多的一些鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14909.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14926.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
因為這裡面我想我也知道現在目前就是說它是Matching Fund的概念現在你存一筆政府也跟你存一筆現在目前我們會社工我們有一個脫貧社工來社安網那邊我們來加強對於這些社會救助的家庭他們來鼓勵他們在做這部分的遊說 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14930.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14949.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
是不是那個完整資料再給邱委員就是說好的政策需要質詢力當然當然所以你從2018年才六成 經過七年才六成恐怕還有這個努力的空間當然 沒錯再請市長努力好 謝謝OK 非常感謝邱委員 謝謝好 謝謝邱委員接下來我們請張祺凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14971.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14973.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
請財政部莊部長跟經濟部的何次長好 來請莊部長 何次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
14985 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15011.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
委員好兩位好何次長是有去美國參加關稅談判的今天最重磅的消息是剛剛傳出來美國媒體說我們在關稅談判裡面對美國的擴大投資是3500億到5500億美金就是介在日本跟日本跟南韓之間大概是多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15012.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15018.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
因為還沒有簽訂而且你去參加嘛 對不對外國的媒體都提出來了這整個金額就在這之間還要再經過最後一個總結會議去做確認我想這應該是已經進入到最後階段了後續如果有進一步消息我想我們行政院談判辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15037.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15064.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
現在這裡面有幾個很重要的啦幾個很重要的第一個賴清德總統一直在講說我們擴大投資的同時我們要換回來兩個就是20加N這個事情不能再抵加了第二個就是232條款對半導體我們這些資訊業的這個要有一個最惠國的優惠我這要去力爭好不好第二個也很重要你看南韓光是一個3500億喔他們總統李在平都直接講了本來美國要求他說你馬上要給我錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15065.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15083.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
他說我要破產了我的存體才4100億你現在要我投資3500億我沒有辦法那麼台灣老實講要超過3500億也是一個很大的一個負擔目前看起來這個方案應該就是鄭麗金講的那個台灣模式嘛對嘛 沒有錯嘛就是我們的半導體產業園區過去然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15086.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15110.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
產業自己過去 可是由政府來做擔保這包緊啦那這個老蔣 我一直在提醒會不會造成護國神山變成半屏山我們的產業過去之後半導體過去之後到底有多少人才會被帶走多少先進的技術會被帶走會不會空洞化這個我們自己要注意好不好要去努力接下來來談大家很關心的一萬年的這個普發一萬年的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15111.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15135.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
那個部長 我看了一下是這一次是普花1萬在112年的時候有普花了6千塊錢那前5天的登記是459萬7千人我就看了這一次的這個登記人數差不多前5天登記也是456萬5千人所以不一定如果照去年 照上次12年的話12年後來沒有去領的人是0.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15139.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15158.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
没错0.3% 领取率99.7%登记的人前5天这么近所以后来应该没有领的人大概也是0.3%左右吧当然这个是112年那个时候的经验大概7万人所以表示普发现金本来就该发因为是超增人民的税收嘛5283亿 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15160.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15183.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
本來就應該還稅於民嘛大家也認為說這麼多人去登記他表示大家也認為要去領啊可是我們就要問為什麼出現之前左院長什麼還要去定一個說不領的一個選項那時候連民進黨的人還有一些親力的媒體都炸鍋了說根本是情的存也要有極限我要跟大家討論一個大家看一下 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15187.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15211.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
你看 我們當然感謝現在不是只有在野黨南跟北的這個奴隸後來民進黨也都一起支持了可是大家要問的一個非常重要的你看 現在連戴清德總統他都下令說他們所有的黨公子要去幫忙發這1萬塊錢連各個立委都講說普派1萬塊他們要設這個變民服務站可是你看下一張民進黨是不是有一點神經錯亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15213.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15237.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
打臉的自己 你看最右邊那一張當初藍白極力推動要普發現金 還稅移民的時候民進黨還上去舉牌子 說什麼普發現金會債留子孫 還說是違憲的結果你現在 自己打自己的嘴巴短短兩三個月 連最近最紅的沈伯陽說什麼普發一萬塊 是癱瘓台灣的這個三招 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15240.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15267.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
掏空台灣 跟中共還是同路人可是你看現在賴清德總統跟卓院長變成什麼 掏空台灣變成中共同路人嗎我們看一下我要談一個比較專業的問題我們依照公債法的規定公共債務法第12條的規定當政府有超收的時候要做一個很重要的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15268.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15296.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
还债我们甚至明定就是说至少要5到6%我要跟你讨论一个重点是我们卓院长还在讲说我们没有钱可以去还债来看一下左边我帮大家逗一个统计这是黄耀辉黄教授的统计我们在108年109年都超收的状况之下我们还债本来规定5到6%你应该还更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15297.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15320.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
可是我的統計跟黃教授的統計我們過去7年超徵那麼多錢還債只有5.4%顯然偏低對不對我想這樣跟委員報告第一個數字上的部分您剛剛提說113年我們超出預算數是5000多億這是全國數但中央是3757億這是數字上的不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
15320.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
15344.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
因为那是全国数是包含地方政府的税收那另外对还债的部分呢其实这几年来我们积极的还债除了预算的编列我们还了之外我们还有增加还债总共还了1兆0733亿元对嘛这么多年部长我们还了那么多的钱并不是说没有还债浪费了很多部长我现在跟你讨论是旧法对吗公债法的第12条就是要还底线就是5% |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
15345.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
15364.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
都一定是要達到的事實上你看106年跟107年竟然都還是不符合就是違法的喔 連5%都不到然後到了108年開始所以說增加那麼多了超過6%的也只有兩次我今天是要跟你討論就是說以後如果還有超增像今年一定又超增嘛 對不對到目前超增多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
15365.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
15388.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
明年要達到贏算是具有挑戰性的所以搞不好明年要再普發一萬塊一次我們台灣民眾黨還特別開了檢討年年超增的共享經濟成果這個公聽會我們做了三點建議非常重要這個是所有專家寫者一起有共識的第一個 增加還債的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
15390.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
15404.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
公債法第十二條也明確 明確被認定了應該有如果是超增比較多應該要增加超過6%這是一個第二個要還稅移民所以我剛剛講今年如果又超增都要考慮明年是不是應該再發六千塊又一萬塊這是一個另外更重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
15405.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
15427.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
連你都超徵這是不對的 為什麼會這樣表示你的意固出的狀況所以你應該提出一個常態化的機制包括要修法 要把它訂好 甚至這個錢要怎麼用應該把它明定下來 譬如說勞保現在勞工或者說退休公務員你們在講說撥補等錢不夠 明定撥補勞工多少錢比例是多少 撥補退休的金融價是多少錢這樣就可以解決危機 好不好 謝謝謝謝張委員 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
15434.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
15450.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
接下來我們請林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在場下一位徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在場接下來我們請翁曉琳委員好主席好這邊有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
15462.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
15464.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
請莊部長委員好市部長好我想我在今天這邊的這個質詢我討論一個跟待真人獎金制度有關的議題我想請教部長您知不知道我們現在有哪些項目是有合法待真人獎金的現在有哪幾種稅是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
15488.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
15513.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
政交稅跟齊交稅還有一個娛樂稅應該還有一個娛樂稅娛樂稅屬於地方稅屬於地方稅好所以如果說就中央說的話主要是政交稅跟齊交稅那每年政交稅的這個齊交稅貸贈人獎金呢那政府要編多少錢的預算來支付您知道嗎大概我們在預算裡面會編這個是不是請負稅署這邊來做一個說明好謝謝抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
15517.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
15532.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
委員不好意思可以麻煩因為剛才我在找資料不好意思我是說你現在財政部每年要編多少的預算來支付證交稅跟期交稅的代徵獎金我們是用預算數去呈現但是最多是2400萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
15535.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
15560.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
是每一个戴真人可以收最高2400万但是就财政部我们重要预算来讲每年要支付多少钱所以这数字您没有对目前我现在手上没有好没关系我告诉你其实从104年到现在114年我们看到其实就我们中央我们核发出去的戴真奖金是不断的偏高114年我们当时是编了2亿7千万的 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
15562.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
15569 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
預算來支付待真人獎金104年那個時候大概是1億所以就說短短的這10年其實也成長了大概兩倍多那問題就是說到底現在還有沒有必要要去核發待真人獎金不知道財政部的看法什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
15580.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
15590.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
因為這個制度當然是全球獨步哪個國家是對於就是要幫忙收的這個代收的業者還要去核發這個獎金的 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
15593.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
15617.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
跟委員報告因為我們為什麼貸真獎金會這幾年增加這麼多主要是因為證交稅整個稅收成長的關係那另外到底該不該給予貸真獎金其實它有它的歷史背景我想委員都很清楚知道說當時是因為我們的券商在貸真這個所謂的證交稅的時候它有一些成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
15618.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
15621.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
所以就像他們我同意就是說當時他有他的這個代真合法代真獎金的當時的歷史環境可是我們現在已經都進入到數位化時代了很多都是電腦這個或是說他的這個上傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
15633.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
15645.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
非常的方便所以其实就代证业者的成本来说已经是趋近于零或是已经很低了而且更何况我们现在很多的什么7-11一些代收业者他们基本上我们政府也不会给他们核发这个奖金的 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
15651.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
15674.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
所以本席的建議是說其實財政部是不是應該要去檢討到底還要不要發這個獎金雖然說整個的預算大概2.7億在我們整體裝預算來說不是個大數目但是本席的看法是說這個事情是不是可以當審則審對不對更何況我們有這麼多的代售業者我們也沒有給人家的什麼店或代售業者有任何獎金 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
15675.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
15691.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
跟委員報告因為他們這些券商或期貨交易商他還是有系統維護跟相關的一些成本那但是我們現在因為剛好委員也有提案要廢除這所謂的證交稅跟起交稅代徵獎金所以我們現在同步在研議當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
15692.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
15713.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
是的 因為本期確實是有近期提出了相關法案因為我希望財政部可以去檢討這個制度如果要發的話那是不是就要公平性所有的幫政府代收稅款的那就都要發那麼如果說只是少數的業者而且像證交稅 期交稅這些證券商坦白說他們也很有錢的所以在這個部分來說是不是還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
15714.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
15722.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
必要要去給他們這樣的獎金這確實財政部需要再進行檢討我們來做一個檢討謝謝委員指教 謝謝謝謝文委員接下來請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員不在場下一位王宏威委員王宏威委員 王宏威委員不在場 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
15737.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
15764.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
好 今日登记发言委员均已询答完毕本次会议作如下决定一 说明报告及询答完毕二 委员咨询未及答复或请补充资讯请相关部会于一周以内以书面答复委员另要求席限者从其锁定三 委员陈玉珍黄威所提书面咨询列入记录刊登公报并请相关部会以书面答复四 财政收支划分法第16条之一未分配款运用占行条例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
15765.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
15775.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
令则其继续审查本次会议议程已经行完毕唐佑不在场委员补题书面质询已并列入记录刊登公报并请议事人员协助处理散会谢谢 |