| IVOD_ID |
170233 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170233 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-35-24 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
24 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-01T11:40:21+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-01T11:48:13+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:07:52 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/10566d69eaf1b9acce3ec7c6a57141ee7b53ee9065a0b1b410bb06545781b11b2bfe832c71c1a02f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
許忠信 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:40:21 - 11:48:13 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議（變更議程）（事由：邀請國防部、外交部、海洋委員會海巡署、大陸委員會報告「中國船舶常態化巡弋我國海域之因應作為」，並備質詢。） |
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我先跟您問好因為我在萬國律師事務所做的位置就是您的位置我在萬國律師事務所做的位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.364 |
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就是您坐過的位置所以您是我的前輩所以我今天要來請教部長我在萬國坐的位置,萬國搬過家所以我不太清楚您講的位置在福隆大樓不管是在空中或是海面或是陸上對於中國船艦巡台的常態化 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
58.308 |
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有沒有去記錄他們每一條船甲板到海面那個距離 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
71.689 |
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委員好 我是海軍設計部常務長這位委員的這個提問我們關注的是這個最主要我們關注的這個船我們這個最主要是關注他的盾位戰器跟他的武器系統我知道 是所以我要提醒你這一點這個部長對三國演義非常的精通周瑜打黃蓋一個願打一個願挨 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
123.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
結果黃蓋的船來到曹操的陣營前當曹操的部將跟曹操報告說池水量不對船上不是糧而是軍人的時候已經來不及了所以各位我們在這一點我們怕中國船業半剋傷也就是說它常態化的巡弋以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
125.287 |
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152.276 |
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將來如果這條船載了武器彈藥載了軍人那個差距會不一樣所以我們現在必須要對中國船來到台灣沿海巡弋的記錄他現在來甲板到海平面的差距而這個從空中測不準各位台灣有很好的地力 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
153.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
164.186 |
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所以我今天除了講三國的故事以外,我還跟各位講一個日本的故事,1905年的日俄戰爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
173.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
197.554 |
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智利因為很重視海軍所以專程去研究日俄戰爭為什麼東鄉平八郎他能夠篤定二艦來到日本要到這個海參崴一定是走慈禧馬海峽也就是對馬海峽而不會走這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
202.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
221.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
純阿魯海峽就是我們京青海峽,因為日建以及日本軍方,善用台灣的苗栗山區,已經測得二建裡面有一艘缺煤到中國去加煤。 |
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222.799 |
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其他的船,池水量不深,表示煤炭已經快要不足不可能走成阿魯海峽,所以一定是走慈禧馬海峽對馬海峽,所以東鄉平八郎在對馬海峽全部日艦在那邊等待他,用日制型在全部撿回如果日艦分成兩邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
250.557 |
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272.431 |
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說兩個海峽日本就會戰敗所以各位台灣有很好的地理位置所以中國船艦來巡台軍演我不怕歡迎來越多來越好每一條船記住他的差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
273.817 |
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我們國防部要記錄他的差距下次來如果是先傳特別注意如果已經來過而他的差距縮小表示船上有彈藥有人員這是我們必須要善用從東鄉平八郎他打勝日俄戰爭利用台灣的地理優勢所以你從空照圖測不出這個距離 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
300.236 |
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322.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
你必須要善用台灣的山區中央山脈去測得那個差距只要來過的知道他那個差距新來的記錄他第二次來的看他有沒有異狀台灣就可以保障我們的安全部長您覺得我這樣一個粗淺的歷史上的經驗您贊同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
326.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
348.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
謝謝委員指正,有關委員的說法我們到時候會來看看怎麼研究但目前現行的做法,因為現在我們大家關注的是他來之後他的補給船多久可以來做一次補給因為按照目前的模式來看,我們注重的是他的這個狀態所以我今天來不是看我的老長官顧立雄律師 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
349.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
376.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我因為看到你們有這一點沒有從歷史得到知識所以我特地來用這兩個歷史故事我所講的是真實的戰爭所發生的經驗而且是利用台灣的地理優勢苗栗的山區俄國軍隊經過的時候日軍已經完全掌控東鄉平八郎已經得到電報知道怎麼對付所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
377.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
393.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
不用怕中國的艦艇來圍巡台灣只要我們有充分的準備部長非常的聰明我在律師界他真的比他聰明的律師不多所以賴總統能夠用部長來當國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
396.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
422.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我長期當空軍權力保障委員我們看到空軍的健兒包括沈一鳴還是少將的時候我看到他的名字沈一鳴這個人會一鳴衝天結果他真的衝天成為司令我只是沒有想到他會掉下來而已所以各位我們看到今天我們國軍國防部有這麼多英挺的將領 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
423.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
430.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
所以我們不用怕所以部長是我可以接受我這樣一個粗淺的看法從歷史上得到一些知識 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
432.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
461.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們根據委員的指導我們來研究一下如何來進行這樣子的一個一個紀錄跟探你只要在中央山脈架設長距離的望遠鏡就可以測得每一條船它的甲板跟海平面的差距下次來如果比較淺比較深那就有異狀非常簡單我小時候就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
465.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
467.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
讓部長做一個參考謝謝各位 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-07-01T11:40:21+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-07-01T11:40:24.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
主席、各位同仁。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-07-01T11:40:24.893000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-07-01T11:40:28.786000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
有請國防部顧部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-07-01T11:40:28.786000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-07-01T11:40:32.679000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
請顧部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-07-01T11:40:32.679000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-07-01T11:40:36.572000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
部長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-07-01T11:40:36.572000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-07-01T11:40:40.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
許委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-07-01T11:40:40.465000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-07-01T11:40:56.427000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
我先跟您問好，因為我在萬國律師事務所坐的位置就是您坐過的位置，所以您是我的前輩。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.973 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-07-01T11:40:56.547000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-07-01T11:40:58.028000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
我今天要請教部長…… |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-07-01T11:40:58.028000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-07-01T11:41:00.049000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
我在萬國坐的位置？ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-07-01T11:41:00.949000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-07-01T11:41:03.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
萬國搬過家，所以我不太清楚您講的位置。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-07-01T11:41:03.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-07-01T11:41:06.391000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
在芙蓉大樓。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-07-01T11:41:06.391000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-07-01T11:41:07.391000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
你講的是芙蓉大樓，OK！ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-07-01T11:41:06.391000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-07-01T11:41:27.007000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
國防部不管是在空中或是海面或是陸上，對於中國船艦巡臺的常態化，有沒有去記錄他們每一條船甲板到海平面的距離？ |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
朱參謀長惠民 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-07-01T11:41:32.689000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-07-01T11:41:34.911000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
委員好，我是海軍司令部參謀長。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.692 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
朱參謀長惠民 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-07-01T11:41:35.912000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-07-01T11:41:47.202000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
針對委員的提問，我們最主要是關注這個船的噸位、戰系和武器系統。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.714 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-07-01T11:41:47.202000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-07-01T11:42:13.694000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
我知道，所以我要提醒你這一點，部長對三國演義非常精通，周瑜打黃蓋，一個願打、一個願挨，結果黃蓋的船來到曹操的陣營前，當曹操的部將跟曹操報告說吃水量不對，船上不是糧而是軍人的時候，已經來不及了。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.988 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-07-01T11:42:14.675000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-07-01T11:42:48.834000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
所以各位，在這一點我們怕中國船夜半客商，也就是它常態化的巡弋以後，將來如果這條船載了武器、彈藥、載了軍人，那個差距會不一樣，所以我們現在必須要對中國船來到臺灣沿海巡弋的，記錄它現在來甲板到海平面的差距，而這個從空中測不準。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-07-01T11:42:51.335000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-07-01T11:43:48.066000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
各位，臺灣有很好的地利，所以我今天除了講三國故事以外，我還要跟各位講一個日本東鄉平八郎（とうごう へいはちろう）的故事，1905年日俄戰爭，智利因為很重視海軍，所以專程去研究日俄戰爭，為什麼東鄉平八郎能夠篤定俄艦來到日本要到海參威一定是走つしま海峽，也就是對馬海峽，而不會走つがる海峽，也就是津輕海峽。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.789 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-07-01T11:43:48.066000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-07-01T11:44:26.985000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
因為日艦以及日本軍方善用臺灣的苗栗山區，已經測得俄艦裡面有一艘缺煤，要到中國去加煤，其他的船吃水量不深，表示煤炭已經快要不足，不可能走津輕海峽，所以一定是走對馬海峽，所以東鄉平八郎在對馬海峽把全部日艦集中在那邊等待，用Z字形隊型將俄艦全部殲滅。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0.832 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-07-01T11:44:28.326000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-07-01T11:44:33.258000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
如果日艦分成兩邊，守兩個海峽，日本就會戰敗。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-07-01T11:44:33.258000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-07-01T11:45:09.040000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
所以各位，臺灣有很好的地理位置，所以中國船艦來巡臺軍演，我不怕，歡迎來，來越多越好，每一條船，記住它的差距，我們國防部要記錄它的差距，下次來，如果是新船，特別注意，如果已經來過，而它的差距縮小，表示船上有彈藥、有人員，這是我們必須要善用的。 |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.932 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-07-01T11:45:10.561000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-07-01T11:45:32.686000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
東鄉平八郎打勝日俄戰爭，利用臺灣的地理優勢，所以你從空照圖測不出這個距離，你必須要善用臺灣的山區和中央山脈，去測得那個差距，只要來過的，知道它那個差距，新來的，記錄它。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-07-01T11:45:33.646000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-07-01T11:45:38.871000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
第二次來的，看它有沒有異狀，臺灣就可以保障我們的安全。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-07-01T11:45:40.492000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-07-01T11:45:43.855000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
部長，您覺得我這樣一個粗淺的歷史上的經驗看法，您贊同嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.92 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
朱參謀長惠民 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-07-01T11:45:47.527000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-07-01T11:45:47.948000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
謝謝委員指正。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
朱參謀長惠民 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-07-01T11:45:48.928000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-07-01T11:46:06.077000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
有關委員的說法，我們到時候會來看看怎麼研究，但目前現行的做法，因為現在我們大家關注的是，它來之後，補給船多久可以來做一次補給，因為按照目前的模式來看，我們注重的是它的狀態。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.974 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-07-01T11:46:06.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-07-01T11:46:46.094000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
我今天來不是看我的老長官顧立雄律師，我因為看到你們在這一點沒有從歷史得到知識，所以我特地來用這兩個歷史故事，我所講的是真實的戰爭所發生的經驗，而且是利用臺灣的地理優勢，從苗栗的山區可觀測到俄國軍艦經過，日軍已經完全掌控，東鄉平八郎已經得到電報，知道怎麼對付，所以不用怕中國的艦艇來圍巡臺灣，只要我們有充分的準備。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.952 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-07-01T11:46:46.094000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-07-01T11:46:54.783000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
部長非常聰明，在律師界真的比他聰明的律師不多，所以賴總統能夠用部長來當國防部部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.974 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-07-01T11:46:57.857000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-07-01T11:47:16.227000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
我長期當空軍全力保障委員，我們看到空軍的健兒，包括沈一鳴還是少將的時候，我看到她的名字就覺得沈一鳴這個人會一鳴沖天，結果他真的沖天成為司令，我只是沒有想到他會掉下來而已。 |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.911 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-07-01T11:47:18.268000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-07-01T11:47:25.074000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
各位，我們看到今天國軍國防部有這麼多英挺的將領，所以我們不用怕。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-07-01T11:47:26.056000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-07-01T11:47:31.887000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
部長是否可以接受我這樣一個粗淺的看法，從歷史上得到一些知識？ |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.964 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-07-01T11:47:33.955000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-07-01T11:47:45.521000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
我們根據委員的指導，來研究一下如何進行這樣子的記錄跟探討。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.926 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
許委員忠信 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-07-01T11:47:46.001000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-07-01T11:48:08.078000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
你只要在中央山脈架設長距離的望遠鏡，就可以測得每一條船的甲板跟海平面的差距，下次來，如果比較淺或比較深，那就有異狀，非常簡單，我小時候就會，讓部長做一個參考，謝謝各位。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.987 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-07-01T11:48:08.578000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-07-01T11:48:09.720857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-07-01T11:48:10.020857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-07-01T11:48:12.020857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
謝謝許忠信委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-07-01T11:48:12.320857+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-07-01T11:48:14.892286+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
接下來請鍾佳濱委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0 |
| gazette.lineno |
775 |
| gazette.blocks[0][0] |
許委員忠信：（11時40分）主席、各位同仁。有請國防部顧部長。 |
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主席：請顧部長。 |
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許委員忠信：部長好。 |
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顧部長立雄：許委員好。 |
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許委員忠信：我先跟您問好，因為我在萬國律師事務所坐的位置就是您坐過的位置，所以您是我的前輩。我今天要請教部長…… |
| gazette.blocks[5][0] |
顧部長立雄：我在萬國坐的位置？萬國搬過家，所以我不太清楚您講的位置。 |
| gazette.blocks[6][0] |
許委員忠信：在芙蓉大樓。 |
| gazette.blocks[7][0] |
顧部長立雄：你講的是芙蓉大樓，OK！ |
| gazette.blocks[8][0] |
許委員忠信：國防部不管是在空中或是海面或是陸上，對於中國船艦巡臺的常態化，有沒有去記錄他們每一條船甲板到海平面的距離？ |
| gazette.blocks[9][0] |
朱參謀長惠民：委員好，我是海軍司令部參謀長。針對委員的提問，我們最主要是關注這個船的噸位、戰系和武器系統。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][0] |
許委員忠信：我知道，所以我要提醒你這一點，部長對三國演義非常精通，周瑜打黃蓋，一個願打、一個願挨，結果黃蓋的船來到曹操的陣營前，當曹操的部將跟曹操報告說吃水量不對，船上不是糧而是軍人的時候，已經來不及了。所以各位，在這一點我們怕中國船夜半客商，也就是它常態化的巡弋以後，將來如果這條船載了武器、彈藥、載了軍人，那個差距會不一樣，所以我們現在必須要對中國船來到臺灣沿海巡弋的，記錄它現在來甲板到海平面的差距，而這個從空中測不準。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][1] |
各位，臺灣有很好的地利，所以我今天除了講三國故事以外，我還要跟各位講一個日本東鄉平八郎（とうごう へいはちろう）的故事，1905年日俄戰爭，智利因為很重視海軍，所以專程去研究日俄戰爭，為什麼東鄉平八郎能夠篤定俄艦來到日本要到海參威一定是走つしま海峽，也就是對馬海峽，而不會走つがる海峽，也就是津輕海峽。因為日艦以及日本軍方善用臺灣的苗栗山區，已經測得俄艦裡面有一艘缺煤，要到中國去加煤，其他的船吃水量不深，表示煤炭已經快要不足，不可能走津輕海峽，所以一定是走對馬海峽，所以東鄉平八郎在對馬海峽把全部日艦集中在那邊等待，用Z字形隊型將俄艦全部殲滅。如果日艦分成兩邊，守兩個海峽，日本就會戰敗。 |
| gazette.blocks[10][2] |
所以各位，臺灣有很好的地理位置，所以中國船艦來巡臺軍演，我不怕，歡迎來，來越多越好，每一條船，記住它的差距，我們國防部要記錄它的差距，下次來，如果是新船，特別注意，如果已經來過，而它的差距縮小，表示船上有彈藥、有人員，這是我們必須要善用的。東鄉平八郎打勝日俄戰爭，利用臺灣的地理優勢，所以你從空照圖測不出這個距離，你必須要善用臺灣的山區和中央山脈，去測得那個差距，只要來過的，知道它那個差距，新來的，記錄它。第二次來的，看它有沒有異狀，臺灣就可以保障我們的安全。部長，您覺得我這樣一個粗淺的歷史上的經驗看法，您贊同嗎？ |
| gazette.blocks[11][0] |
朱參謀長惠民：謝謝委員指正。有關委員的說法，我們到時候會來看看怎麼研究，但目前現行的做法，因為現在我們大家關注的是，它來之後，補給船多久可以來做一次補給，因為按照目前的模式來看，我們注重的是它的狀態。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][0] |
許委員忠信：我今天來不是看我的老長官顧立雄律師，我因為看到你們在這一點沒有從歷史得到知識，所以我特地來用這兩個歷史故事，我所講的是真實的戰爭所發生的經驗，而且是利用臺灣的地理優勢，從苗栗的山區可觀測到俄國軍艦經過，日軍已經完全掌控，東鄉平八郎已經得到電報，知道怎麼對付，所以不用怕中國的艦艇來圍巡臺灣，只要我們有充分的準備。 |
| gazette.blocks[12][1] |
部長非常聰明，在律師界真的比他聰明的律師不多，所以賴總統能夠用部長來當國防部部長。我長期當空軍全力保障委員，我們看到空軍的健兒，包括沈一鳴還是少將的時候，我看到她的名字就覺得沈一鳴這個人會一鳴沖天，結果他真的沖天成為司令，我只是沒有想到他會掉下來而已。各位，我們看到今天國軍國防部有這麼多英挺的將領，所以我們不用怕。部長是否可以接受我這樣一個粗淺的看法，從歷史上得到一些知識？ |
| gazette.blocks[13][0] |
顧部長立雄：我們根據委員的指導，來研究一下如何進行這樣子的記錄跟探討。 |
| gazette.blocks[14][0] |
許委員忠信：你只要在中央山脈架設長距離的望遠鏡，就可以測得每一條船的甲板跟海平面的差距，下次來，如果比較淺或比較深，那就有異狀，非常簡單，我小時候就會，讓部長做一個參考，謝謝各位。 |
| gazette.blocks[15][0] |
顧部長立雄：謝謝委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][0] |
主席：謝謝許忠信委員。 |
| gazette.blocks[16][1] |
接下來請鍾佳濱委員。 |
| gazette.agenda.page_end |
386 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_id |
委員會-11-5-35-24 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[0] |
陳冠廷 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[1] |
陳俊宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[2] |
羅美玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[3] |
陳永康 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[4] |
王定宇 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[5] |
林楚茵 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[6] |
陳雪生 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[7] |
馬文君 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[8] |
王義川 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[9] |
沈伯洋 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[10] |
牛煦庭 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[11] |
王安祥 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[12] |
許忠信 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[13] |
鍾佳濱 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[14] |
黃建賓 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[15] |
賴士葆 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[16] |
翁曉玲 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[17] |
郭昱晴 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[18] |
黃仁 |
| gazette.agenda.speakers[19] |
邱志偉 |
| gazette.agenda.page_start |
313 |
| gazette.agenda.meetingDate[0] |
2026-07-01 |
| gazette.agenda.gazette_id |
1155601 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_lcidc_ids[0] |
1155601_00004 |
| gazette.agenda.meet_name |
立法院第11屆第5會期外交及國防委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄 |
| gazette.agenda.content |
邀請國防部、外交部、海洋委員會海巡署、大陸委員會報告「中國船舶常態化巡弋我國海域之因
應作為」，並備質詢 |
| gazette.agenda.agenda_id |
1155601_00003 |