| IVOD_ID |
170220 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170220 |
| 日期 |
2026-07-01 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
22 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-07-01T11:00:05+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-07-01T11:10:40+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/10566d69eaf1b9ac5b40d1a1220ce15a95b27c9e03a9ae5310bb06545781b11b0cc001442e8e29285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
許忠信 |
| 委員發言時間 |
11:00:05 - 11:10:40 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-07-01T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議（事由：審查考試院函請審議「公務人員考績法修正草案」案。
【僅進行詢答】
【7月1日及2日兩天一次會】） |
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主席有請考試院秘書長 劉秘書長請劉秘書長秘書長好好久不見好久不見我們卓政府以及考試院 |
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我最欣賞的一男一女的公務人員,男的就是您也就是說您相互從功,盡忠職守有一陣子我在學校看到您身體不適,我非常的擔心您從外讀會到現在為台灣的打拼,我非常的感動你的是楊真你,所以我今天要來請教秘書長 |
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我星期一到教育部去質詢什麼叫霸凌到底楊真尼是霸凌人還是被霸凌這個是我要請教秘書長因為貴院裡面有公務員保障培訓委員會所以公務員保障是貴院的職責 |
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108.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
有任何一個公務人員受到冤屈不是只有考積還有替他申願剛才我們莊瑞雄委員有提到考積的考核有可能涉及到霸凌的問題所以給我今天切入這個主題的上台階非常謝謝我們召委我今天不講日語 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
112.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
127.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們就講中文講是以杜鬼良為之鬼取材以張物材為之物辯等列 順哨長 官司之首也現在我看到楊真理被調查出來他的行為被認定霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
138.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
147.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
竟然是以冒犯方式多次否定部署的意見打斷部署的花園這樣就構成霸凌秘書長您贊同 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
155.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
179.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
各位報告我們在保障法或是職安法裡面的確會就是說大家重視霸凌這個事情所以會有霸凌的定義但這個定義當然就是說文字文字是沒有辦法完整的去表達說怎麼樣定義說到底怎麼樣構成哪些要件就一定構成霸凌或一定不構成所以他還是要看他整個事情的脈絡所以這就是調查小組的 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
180.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
207.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
必須要見證存在的意義我真的很想打斷林花園但是打斷花園會構成霸凌所以我不會所以這個要看前後文要看那個場景要看那個整體的狀況啦所以回答您的問題就是說如果只是從文字上面來看說這樣是不是就構成霸凌這幾個文字當然沒有辦法去一概而論我去請教過教育部教育部給我霸凌的定義非常的嚴謹的 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
209.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
226.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
不可能這樣就過成霸凌對 他其實霸凌這個概念本來在教育部的法規裡面是先出現所以後來勞動部或保訓會這邊在修相關法定的時候也會去參考他的這個定義啦但是我就是說所以重點是要看整個的前後 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
229.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
255.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
羅關係還有整個情節是什麼那這件事他沒有辦法從最後行政院新聞稿的三言兩語裡面可能就讓大家覺得那麼清楚的表達但是他一定有一個詳盡的調查律師長我沒有霸凌你的意思完全沒有覺得這樣子我們的貿易談判代表是您跟我在替台灣打拚的時候我在訪ECFA的時候一直主張我們台灣要訪美國設立USTR |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
257.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
285.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
US Trade Representative所以我們成立談判代表這個辦公室這個談判代表必須要英文好國際經貿法的談判能力技巧又要好我們現在顏慧欣副代表先世我非常難過去世了一個副代表結果我們現在行政院砸了一個政代表總代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
288.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
314.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
請問我們行政院現在要跟美國等其他國家談判我們誰要上陣呢這是我最擔心的一件事情我們因為媒體受到一些力量的操弄把這麼優秀的公務人員把他砸了我個人認為非常不應該所以今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
316.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
341.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我才在這裡請教您我也知道您非常的幽默有文學方面的造詣莫里埃他的經典台劇我們在英國都時常講到那句叫《貴人迷》中文翻譯叫《貴人迷》他的主角蒙西威·朱頓他有一句經典語錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
342.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
350.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他要去學散文,其實他已經自己講了散文四十年,他不知道,如果霸凌這麼容易成立的話, |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
361.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
383.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我許中信不是只有在立法委員霸凌劉建新秘書長而已我打電影發言而且我剛才對你講話的方式也是冒犯沒有禮貌所以我也是霸凌了您完全沒有這個感覺原來我也霸凌了好久我的部署我的同仁因為霸凌這麼容易過場 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
386.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
413.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這樣對楊真理公平嗎他為國家犧牲奉獻我從21年前代表台灣自顧去日內瓦做研究認識他他的英文能力他的國際經貿法的專業以及談判的技巧不輸給蔡英文總統而我們用這樣一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
415.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
436.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
莫須有的罪名把他砸了而且讓他一輩子的公務人員他所付出的不只付諸流血不是只有付諸流水而且是他人生受到一個很大的不公平所以今天我們的公務人員保障委員會如何來保障他 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
441.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
468.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
公務員報告 因為那個楊代表是楊政委其實以前是一個非常優秀的文官工作表現我想大家都有目共睹對國家也都有貢獻這部分我們不會抹殺他那但是他現在身份是政務人員那在政務人員的身份上他沒有辦法受到公務員保障委員會的這個救濟的那個管道的確是這樣但是我們行政院現在的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
469.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
497.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
真的沒有給他基本的權力因為那個調查沒有很充分徹底也沒有給他陳述意見的機會只是去問了幾個想要取代他的人各位我們總談判代表當然旁邊也有人想要取代他結果我們談判代表辦公室70%的部署非常肯定他 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
498.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
519.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以表示我們在調查的時候不徹底,也沒有讓他陳述的機會我今天沒有受他的請託,我今天是義憤填膺我因為台灣喪失了這樣一個人才,我怕產生寒蟬效應將來台灣公務人員不願意替國家做事 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
520.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
549.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
因為一個好的長官他帶部署如果他比較急迫想要有所進展有所成績當然有時候會對部署比較沒有那麼客氣有時候部署講話會把他打斷因為時間不是很長那這個一定會有的怎麼會這樣過成一個霸凌而行政院對他的處理我認為是霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
550.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
577.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我認為行政院對他是霸凌他所以我今天來請教我們秘書長你有沒有辦法以你的影響力再給他救濟委員這個第一個這可能就是要看相關的制度那至於說您對於這個調查的結果的不同意見這個個案上我真的沒有辦法去幫行政院說明或評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
580.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
606.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
但這個因為從考試院的角度來說公務員保障委員會是保障文官權益所以的確他這個保障的對象不包含政務人員秘書長我跟您報告一個故事姚營在我們台南在鴉片戰爭表現非常好清廷對他看似扁其實是生所以我個人建議秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
608.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
629.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我知道連總統都尊重你三分尊重你三分這是我個人私底下知道總統非常肯定你這一次雖然讓他受到傷害這個人才不可失我們應該把他調升這是我對您的這個期許也是拜託謝謝您 |