| IVOD_ID |
17022 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17022 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-12T08:31:24+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-12T12:39:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:07:36 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e456f1a8eac090e914182d8c913e7f3e3914d0d15f34b2c02472d654344e62edb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆就「推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:24 - 12:39:00 |
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請主任秘書報告出席委員人數報告委員會出席委員已出法定人數主席宣布現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
324.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
350.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第四會期財政委員會第六次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年十一月五日星期三九時至十三十二分地點群行樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福委員等十四人列席委員黃國昌委員等十四人列席官員財政部部長莊翠雲交通部經濟部環境部衛福部法務部各縣市政府及其所屬單位代表及相關人員等 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
350.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
369.533 |
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主席林昭吉委員失明報告四項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定討論四項審查使用牌照稅法共二十九案一行政院韓勤審議本院委員邱振軍的十九人委員陳超明的十八人委員羅兵才等二十人委員廖偉祥等十九人 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
369.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
384.234 |
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委員楊瓊英等27人委員徐宇貞等22人委員邱若驊等17人委員林靜芬等26人委員王紅維等19人委員李彥秀等16人委員蘇清泉等18人委員徐欣盈等24人 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
386.176 |
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407.655 |
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委員郭玉琴等19人 委員王美惠等19人委員李坤澄等18人 委員羅廷偉等17人委員郭國文等18人 委員吳佩義等17人委員葛如君等16人 委員沈發慧等17人委員林思明等22人 委員賴士寶等25人委員黃建廷等20人 分別擬據使用牌照稅法第五條條文修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
408.215 |
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436.514 |
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等24案2.本院台灣民眾黨團女郡使用牌照稅法第5條及第7條條文修正草案案3.委員廖先祥等17人女郡使用牌照稅法第5條及第38條條文修正草案案4.委員牛許婕等17人委員鍾嘉斌等16人分別女郡使用牌照稅法第7條條文修正草案等2案5.委員廖偉祥等17人女郡使用牌照稅法第7條及第38條條文修正草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
437.354 |
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456.361 |
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經委員王宏偉、李燕秀、徐欣盈、羅廷偉、陳超明、徐宇珍說明提案要旨財政部長莊翠雲就行政院提案報告及回應委員提案後紀委員林德福等18人提出質詢經經財政部莊部長、台南市政府財稅局專委李文文、交通部專委趙敬偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
458.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
485.552 |
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經濟部產業發展署署長邱求惠衛福部副市長吳希文環環境部檢任計政呂承陽新北市政府財政局陳榮貴台北市政府財政局副局長張雅惠及相關人員予以答覆決議一說明及詢問完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會一週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從期鎖定三使用牌照稅法二十九案另遮其繼續審查宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
486.755 |
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509.927 |
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好 请问各位委员对上次议事录有无异议好 议事录确定请议事人员宣读今日议程邀请行政邀请金融监督管理委员会彭主任委员金融就推动普惠金融与金融科技概况及相关措施进行专题报告并被质询宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
510.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
538.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
好 我们先介绍现在在场的委员我们林德福委员还有吴秉瑞委员徐欣颖委员好 我来介绍金融监督管理委员会主任委员彭金龙 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
540.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
564.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
金融市場發展及創新處副處長施怡君綜合規劃處處長林希慎銀行局局長童振章證券期貨局局長張振山保險局局長王立慧檢察局局長賴新國 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
568.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
585.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
好 谢谢今日已成安排邀请金融监督管理委员会彭主任委员金融就推动普惠金融与金融科技概况及相关措施进行专题报告现在请金管会彭主委进行专题报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
591.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
600.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
主席 各位委員 各位媒體先進大家早安陳貴委員會邀請就推動普惠金融與金融科技概況及相關措施提出專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
601.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
621.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
本會為推動普惠金融促進社會公平與實現包容性成長鼓勵金融業推出符合社會各界不同族群需求之多元金融服務與商品行訴以人為本之金融體系僅就目前推動相關重點措施及成果說明如下一提升金融服務的可及性及使用性 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
622.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
640.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
鼓勵金融機構與金融機構分支機構加速待增加區域深設分支機構截至目前為止已增設50處分支機構並創建個人儲蓄投資帳戶TISA以鼓勵民眾進行中長期投資提升民眾資產管理之能力與意識並於6月30日上線 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
643.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
670.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
為利年輕人及小資族投資實施盤中領股交易制度實施至今成長約1426%佔大盤比重由0.12提升至1%持續推動微型保險及小兒中老保險滿足經濟弱勢及特定身份及高齡長者之基本保障需求為擴大微型保險保障對象本會最近修正相關規定將新住民納入保障範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
672.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
687.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
開放存網營及數位保險公司設立外籍小額匯兌業務推廣TWQR網路投保及保險區塊鏈等二 強化友善金融服務推動無障礙金融友善服務定期與身心障礙團體舉辦溝通互動並實施實地訪查 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
692.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
706.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
推動友善國際金融服務設置雙語示範分行及增設多國語言ATM目前共有31家本國銀行設置2209家雙語分行訂立金融友善服務準則 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
707.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
725.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
三提升金融服務品質部分落實對高齡客戶金融消費權益保障被查銀行工會鎖定銀行業對銀行業公平對待高齡客戶自立規範完備投資人保護機制精進公平待客原則平和機制精進金融業 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
726.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
751.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
精進金融知識普及工作持續辦理金融知識普及工作推動計畫走入校園社區辦理金融知識宣導活動與教育部合作辦理金融基礎教育合作推廣計畫辦理提升年輕世代金融素養宣導計畫等建置我國普惠金融衡量指標二加速金融科技創新與發展目前推動與辦理成果說明如下一 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
752.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
774.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
原定虛擬資產服務法草案納入穩定幣管理制度草案已於6月27號呈報行政院並於10月30日向軍院報告辦理情形二 擴大業務事辦及強化創新實驗機制大幅放寬業務事辦範圍截至9月底本會受理135件業務事辦申請案已核准113件 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
778.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
796.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
研議修正金融科技發展與創新條例規劃將業務事辦機制入法擴大事辦範圍至法規命令尚未開放之業務項目等啟動金融行動創新法規調適平台截至8月底已有44項建議獲得共識以修正或朝可行方向研議中 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
797.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
812.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
建置銀行監理資料數位申報及分析平台以強化監理資料整合應用提升風險預警能力及監理效能發布數位金融服務包容性指引優化數位金融民眾使用體驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
814.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
833.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
二 推動開放創新與多元金融服務一 開放申請設立數位保險公司已於7月修正訂定保險業設立許可及管理辦法14項法規另外 建置金融Face ID驗證轉接中心已於9月25日事半上線已有10家金融金購參與借接 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
835.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
859.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
接下來我們持續推動開放銀行及開放證券業務另外我們也開放虛擬資產保管業務主題式業務事辦目前已有四家銀行獲准事辦另外我們推動RWA代幣化實驗已於9月20號辦理期末報告完成驗證技術之可行性現正舊法規條式代幣化交易平台的建置及國際鏈結等三大方向進行推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
860.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
875.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
另外促進金融科技創新應用生態系發展部分第一個我們要建構可信任的金融AI生態系包括AI科技主債研議以及建構金融大語言模型等第一階段以建構銀行專業知識為核心之金融專用模型 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
877.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
889.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
預計明年年底正式上線成立金融科技創投基金預計募集60至70億元首輪募資將30億將於明年第一季完成另外推動金融科技創新園區2.0 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
891.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
899.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
分級輔導機制創新園區至今已經招募了196家新創團隊進駐含40個家國際團隊也舉辦了1900場育成生化輔導及720場媒合活動促成了163件產創合作案 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
910.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
924.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們持續舉辦台北金融科技論壇以及推動普惠金融金融科技主題式推廣活動今年7月起我們針對樂齡青年中小企業三大族群之數位金融服務需求及使用痛點舉辦提案競賽並於年底舉辦成果發表 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
928.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
945.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
依據本會近期公布的數位金融服務滿意度調查民眾整體滿意度達86%顯示我國數位金融服務已獲民眾的肯定調查發現民眾最關注的安全性保障多元應用場景友善介面操作便利性等以及金融科技創新的面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
946.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
966.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
本會將持續收集外界意見 借盡國際先進做法鼓勵業者開發符合各客群需求之金融商品及服務以實現兼顧包容成長創新與安全的金融發展目標以上報告進行指教 謝謝好 謝謝彭主委的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
968.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
986.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
現在開始詢答先做一下宣告每位出席委員發言時間八分鐘不要使得延長兩分鐘每位列席委員發言時間五分鐘今日上午十點截止發言登記現依登記順序請登記第一位的林德福委員質詢謝謝 謝謝主席是不是請那個金管會彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
997.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
998.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好 請碰座位 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
1002.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
1030.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
委員長主委你好那個我想原本傳出這個衛福部明年將修法就是有關於健保補充費打算把租金利息還有鼓勵所得或收入的部分改採年度來計算一年累計超過2萬元就會收取2.11%補充保費那結果沒有隔多久因為行政院就出面來滅火 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
1032.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
1049.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那暫緩規劃 主委當天政局署密被問到這件事回答我們也是才剛看到這個版本那會了解是否對股民有影響再與衛福部來溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
1051.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
1072.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
請問那個主委你認為這個食從糧食部長對補充保惠的言論真的是無地放肆嗎還是有目的性的釋出政策的風向球我想我也不方便替衛福部部長回答這問題不過他們已經在很多的場合已經做公開的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
1073.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
1092.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
說明這是還在政策演繹中我們金管會當然會本於我們的職權提供我們專業的意見未來如果還繼續討論的話我們會提供我們的意見給衛福部參考主委啊因為衛福部對於跨部會性質的政策擅自提出看法不論有沒有目的請問你認為這樣適當嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
1095.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
1114.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我想任何的溝通都是必要的啦因為尤其是很多的問題其實非常的複雜我們也希望能夠把這個制度做得進善進美我想外部部有他專業的考量但是我說假設涉及到資本市場的話我們非常樂意也非常也必須要提供一些必要的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
1115.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
1128.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
對啊因為這個要跨部會而且這個要跨部會研究以後到底適不適當再來提出來結果如果是你的話你會採取這種方式嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
1130.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
1151.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
我剛剛跟委員報告過了任何的政策就是要應該要多多的溝通因為其實很多很複雜希望能夠盡善盡美我想這是我們在執行這些的時候我們大概至少我覺得這是應該多溝通把各種的狀況多了解應該會做出更實時需要的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
1152.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
1165.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
又或者這次的補充法會提出年度採記的這種言論衛福部是不是已經啊你認為有沒有涉及到政交法第155條第一項第6款的行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
1167.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
1195.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
禁止的違反因為金管會是不是會以股市突應的標準去判斷有沒有違法存在你的看法呢我想委員剛剛講其實這個事情我想衛福部他已經做過很多人說明他還是在政策研議的過程當中那我想這部分是因為他已經做這個說明剛剛委員提到115的話他有很認定的非常非常複雜的這樣的一個條件我想這應該是不至於 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
1196.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1220.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
主委如果按照衛福部長現任政務委員過去的陳時中的說法事實上檢討健保補充保費調整課徵早就不是秘密換句話說恐怕未來勢在必行補充保費的改革規劃陳時中說制度需要精算討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1223.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1240.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
必然要思考 額度 兼顧它的量能互惠以這個傑戶濟貧的精神調整才有意義那我請問主委以您對股市投資獲利的了解你認為有辦法能夠明確區別誰是貧 誰是富嗎有沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1248.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1276.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
我想我們從資本市場來看剛才委員提到就是有關健保財務的問題這不是我們金管會的專業啦所以我們也沒辦法待會說明剛才講任何一件比如說這樣對於我們的交易行為的這些判斷有影響當然只是說有影響影響有多大這件事情我覺得都要經過深入的評估才會知道主委換句話說考量統計總所得調高門檻到一定的程度就一定能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1277.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1281.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
判斷出他合理的標準嗎因您看法呢我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1283.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1306.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
用一個非常非常具體的數據去判定一個事情當然有很多它的盲點我想整個資本市場裡面的投資人有這麼多我們這麼多的散戶在裡面而且就是說他們的投資行為每個人都不一樣所以很難用一個數字來直接切分說什麼樣是屬於哪個屬性我覺得這個真的需要很專業的研究這樣 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1308.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1323.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
軍管會推動普惠金融也參考G20普惠金融指標體系建置國內普惠金融衡量以及觀察指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1324.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1342.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那我請問主委如果從指標結果所代表的數據內容你認為國內普惠金融和國外普惠金融推動上有沒有什麼差異之處我想普惠金融是一個概念根據不同的地區國家它有不一樣它落實的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
1343.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
1364.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
像比如說我過去研究很多的像有關的微型保險的部分他其實各個國家在做這個事雖然都是叫做微型保險但他做的方法完全不同使用的場景完全不同那我想這是一個概念希望我們的金融服務能夠讓每一個不同的群體都能夠得到公平的對待我想是要精神是這樣每個國家是不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
1364.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
1391.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
主委因為推動普惠金融的核心目標就是要讓社會上所有階層特別是弱勢群體農村地區和微小企業都能夠平等享有整個金融的服務以促進整個經濟的成長創造就業機會和提升社會的福祉那我請問主委你認為台灣在普惠金融推動上做 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
1393.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
1415.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
做得最好的是哪方面你認為呢我想普惠金融其實我覺得最近這幾年來觀察不管是我們的保險業還有銀行業其實還有我們的證券相關產業對這個都非常的重視比如說我剛才講剛才提到就是我們整個在交易的部分我們對各種的投資人越來越友善像比如說我們的保險部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
1416.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
1439.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
各家公司都很很很主動的推出很多的這樣一個保險包括像很多的投保的方式更為友善還就是像微型保險小兒中老保險這些都是像銀行在各個地方偏鄉地方所提供的服務我想還有對一些弱勢群體所做的努力我們每年去看的結果都覺得銀行真的非常用心但是還是很多努力的方向有待加強的部分有哪些你認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
1440.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
1469.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
其實我們像我們最近常常每年我們大概都會跟一些我們的各種帳別的團體去我們的銀行的據點去看比如說他們很多地方小地方因為我們是正常人我們很難理解他們的需求像這部分我覺得每年都有進步但是每年有進步代表說其實未來都還有進步的空間像剛才講像我們今年小兒中老保險我們的微型保險有納入我們的新住民其實我們看到社會的變遷有關注到其他的需求我們就把它納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
1470.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
1481.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
會一直持續來做這樣喔那請問主委推動普惠金融你認為要建立在哪些條件上才能夠發揮減少貧富差距的功能呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
1481.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
1500.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我覺得最重要還是一個同理心就是因為我們大部分的金融機構都是盈利事業盈利事業會以業績獲利為主要的考量通常這些普惠金融對象都不是他主要的課程這往往很容易在他們經營策略上被忽略所以這時候就必須要政策的來觸發跟觸動他們做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
1500.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
1524.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
主委事實上以本席的認知在國內目前要讓普惠金融深化更多數的民眾首要解決的問題就是無所不在的詐騙方式和手段主委按照銀行局長童振章的說法金融主詐已經射出五箭 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
1524.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
1540.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
包含科技主柵、精純主柵、協力主柵、臨櫃主柵、責任主柵藉由全力做好來阻止張款流向面的金流方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
1541.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
1555.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
以做到精準打擊詐騙的目標那我請問主委目前阻止詐騙的五件你認為有沒有發揮預期的功能性有沒有我想跟委員報告其實銀行端最在意的就是我們警示帳戶的成長率 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
1556.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
1578.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我們從今年到六月平均每年每個月都還持續成長大概三千件左右但是我們從九月開始已經看到了負成長我覺得這也是說這是我們過去這麼多年來監控首次的負成長代表我們這些詐騙的賬戶在減緩減少中我想這也是銀行還有大家努力的一個成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
1579.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
1607.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
因為那個主委隨著金融環境提升的普惠金融你認為金融主詐未來是不是仍舊有加強或升級的必要有沒有我想這個主詐永遠沒有止境只要有詐騙我們要全力來做方法我們要絕對來持續的優化因為我們也看到社會很多的責難說這些銀行在做主詐的時候就是有過度的部分這我們也是非常非常關注我們要求銀行要持續來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
1607.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
1617.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
希望這方面能夠加強各方面要合作啦其實像那個數位發展部我認為一點功能都沒有一年花那麼多錢那你這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
1619.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
1637.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
中華民國台灣讓人家最最不能就接受的就是變成人家外邦的叫做詐騙王國這個是很可恥很可笑真的要好好的檢討是我們一起努力對謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝林委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞吳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
1651.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
1673.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
主席 麻煩請金管會 彭主委好 請彭主委委員長主委早今年議題跟那個普惠金融有關那普惠金融一個過去歷史上有名的案例就是是不是孟加拉這個國民銀行 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
1674.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
1682.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
把他用小兒的貸款給一些要就業的婦女還有一些小商販所以他還獲得諾貝爾獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
1686.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
1714.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
可見這個在經濟很弱勢的人身上其實是如果從這個案例來看是很有效果的因為在那樣子的經濟環境裡面可能是要去取得相當於台幣幣值一兩萬塊錢的貸款都有困擾所以變成有一些想要做一些小生意的他連最起碼的資本都沒有這個事情是從那邊來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
1716.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
1726.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
那以這個案例來講其實如果類比這樣案例台灣需要這麼小的這個微型貸款的這個民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
1728.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
1750.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
人數應該相對比例是少很多少很多這個我在過去在當老師的時候有對這個做過蠻全面的研究確實像剛剛那個模式會普遍存在在南亞還有非洲還有以前的早期的東歐那其他國家的所謂的微型金融比較不會是這個型態那台灣的微型金融是什麼樣子的型態 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
1750.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
1774.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
微信金融主要是我們現在還是有一些比較經濟弱勢還有就是一些比如說它整個在特別還有就是我們不同的像我們現在看到的就是因為我們現在的金融服務大概會集中在假設人口分佈的中段比如說可能15歲到65歲之間的人其實還有兩端中間還有一些不同比較弱勢經濟弱勢的人他通常很難在很多的商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
1775.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
1782.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
得到一個一個一個完整的比如說像我們現在的保險商品都有一個最低的承保金額的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
1782.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
1807.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那就像剛剛委員也有研究像印度他們在賣洗髮精的時候他們就覺得奇怪這麼大罐賣不出去他就做成小瓶裝因為很多人他根本買不起整瓶再儲存他只能買小瓶所以後來我們推了微型保險現在把它微小化小額化大概就是這個概念我們希望能夠透過商品的設計跟費率的這樣一個能夠滲入到這些不同的群體這個是很好的一個想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
1808.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
1827.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
但是問題是在台灣的實用性到底你認為很高嗎其實台灣確實是我們在微型保險的部分我們也看到還有微型金融部分市場不如其他比如說剛才講的大家提到以前有個那個諾貝亞經濟學家他提出一個金字塔底層的商機 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
1828.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
1847.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
就是說當一個國家的貧富在特別是那個最貧窮那個底層那個底部非常大的時候像這種國家地區就非常適合來推動這個但是我們基本上我們以我們現在台灣的財富平均的結果雖然說我們不是大部分都是很有錢但是我們下面底層的那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
1849.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
1877.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
那個母數是比較小的所以整個規模上比較困難做到但是我覺得這還是不能放棄我剛才也提過像這一塊絕對不會是我們金融機構的主力課程一定要透過政策的導引才有辦法這個之前蘇貞昌院長在當院長的時候他對於我們台灣的國有銀行他的放款借貸都傾向於集中化大型化是那鼓勵中小企業的貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
1878.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
1904.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
變成很困難所以他把貸款的金額的成績的計算不是用金額計算用件數加以評比進去也是有這樣子的精神在就是說有的時候站在銀行的角色來看他希望借錢給有錢人他希望一次借很大條的錢這樣既保障然後好像一下業績又很高但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
1906.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
1922.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
從服務的角度來看這樣的觀念是不對的當然 其實剛剛委員提到就是說今年剛好是我們推動中小企業放款第20年有繼續在成長嗎有跟委員報告一個數字是這樣因為我前幾天才跟銀行局在討論這件事情因為這20週年翻轉了我們整個銀行放款的配比 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
1923.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
1950.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
在那個之前我們大概我們整個銀行總放款在那個中小企業大概只佔大概三成五左右那其他就是可能六成五是大企業經過這二十年呢剛好這個比例就翻轉過來了就等於說我們整個銀行的放款對整個企業的放款裡面已經跟以前很大不同因為我們在我剛才也跟陳柱委員提到這個東西假設由放任由銀行去做的話他大概還是會朝向那個容易做好做的地方做但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
1950.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
1968.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我們透過政策來導引確實我們看這20年來確實有很明顯的改變我覺得這個要繼續加強為什麼因為台灣的產業環境跟很多國家不太一樣像我們跟韓國對比韓國是集中在大企業上他們的國家的經濟主導主要都是幾家大的這個財團 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
1970.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
1996.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
但台灣其實是一個中小企業遍佈我們台灣的觀念是打群架的觀念所以我們這個對我們台灣的產業環境是很重要的很多企業他的真正需要貸款的反而是這些比較中小的企業已經很有錢的企業他要貸款沒有困難不用特別再去加強我舉個例子你如果說台塑要來給你貸款台積電要來給你貸款我看銀行應該都很高興就趕快放款給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
1997.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
2006.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
因為這個很有擔保然後一次業務又可以做得很大但是真正需要讓我們台灣各地的產業能發展的是這個中小企業的這個貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
2008.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
2031.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
像這也是為什麼我們會有一些中小企業的支持機構像信保基金這些都是來做這些事因為他要補足銀行所擔心那個風險的那個部位那其實這樣就可以做到這個的補強你提到的就是我想要講的一個重點這其實因為無論是金融的活動或是貸款這裡面都有一個信用這個性質在這裡面作為他主要支撐的骨幹 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
2033.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
2042.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那你那個微型的 土匯的 它一個很大的困難就是你這個信用的真信 沒有那麼容易 因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
2044.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
2062.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
你面對那麼多人突然之間那麼多人都來那你都要徵信那你要花的成本是非常的巨大的那花了這麼巨大的成本又沒有辦法從你的這個交易中間去獲利回來的話那會出現困難度會產生在這個地方你是不是這樣認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
2063.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
2088.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
這當然是這很實務也是非常精準的實務的問題因為銀行他本身大部分都是個盈利事業他當然以最小的成本獲得最大利益但是銀行也是個特許事業他必須擔負著一定程度的社會責任所以剛才講到說如果你沒有做任何的措施他大概還是會走向一個比較容易做好做好賺的地方就會忽略這些很大的客群這也是為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
2088.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
2098.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
在一個高度階段行業政策要持續的去對這一塊做一些不管是獎勵或是一些的一些措施去希望他做到這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
2099.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
2118.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
以中國的過去從發生案例P2P的借貸平台後來導賬都金額非常的巨大那P2P這個後來證實說他很困難的原因在哪裡就是你徵信沒有辦法你在網路上面的這個徵信他對於他來申請的人你無法徵信因為你要講究的是快速 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
2119.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
2141.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
然後要便捷但是真信不是一件快速跟便捷就可以達到的事情而且其中很關鍵是當時這個P2P平台它不像是我們的那個所謂的間接金融銀行是負擔中間風險承擔所以它中間會有一個保護機制它沒有它只是一個平台就讓你之間再撮合那彼此你沒辦法做好真信就讓這個客戶暴露在風險下面 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
2142.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
2169.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
是啦 從這樣的觀念你來看到網路上的虛擬貨幣交易也是一樣的情況如果中間的這一個人他只是仲介說你們去交易那事實上沒有真性在這裡面就很容易衍生非常多的弊端是 這也是我們要納管當然過去在野蠻成長的時候大概是這個方式只要雙方可以接受就好但我覺得納管以後呢問題是雙方接受他是在什麼樣基礎上接受如果沒有真性的話 那個接受是可能就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
2170.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
2191.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
一個感冒非常大的風險譬如說你這網路的貸款假設是人跟人之間的貸款所以它那個利率就要拉得很高因為我可能我做實踐的這個交易我可能裡面要導賬三四件那我只好把利率拉高所以這個機制是如果沒有信在裡面我認為這個機制是有很大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
2192.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
2214.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
對這是核心啦這個是確實像委員講的沒有錯就是比如說政府的監管就是一個信用增強非常重要的機制這個就是讓民眾說我不需要這麼多的專業知識我只要看到政府在監管我就可以把這個東西相信這是一個很重要的效率化的過程所以我現在要回過頭來我們台灣的個案之前監管會核准的三家網路銀行現在有獲利了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
2214.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
2234.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
現在應該還沒有因為他們現在才還在一個建制還在這個過程當中他推廣業務的過程中這個徵訊是一個他很大的問題很大的困難這一部分要如何解決他們有他們特殊性就像我們最近開放幾家銀行的事辦因為過去銀行強調5P5P一定要過去你有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
2235.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
2259.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
對啊你們也要求要認識客戶啊那我是小白我根本就沒有這個怎麼辦他就要想到其他的指標來代表他的風險如果可以做到這一點的話其實這樣可以大幅的減少這個的落差所以我們一直希望其實他們在數位金融就有這個優勢我們一直希望他帶動一個就是說不要用一個傳統的概念來經營因為未來世界變化很大如果可以用一個新的觀念說不定更精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
2260.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
2278.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
對 但是今天這個主題無論是推動普惠金融或是金融科技都不要忘了這中間還是要有信用在裡面做骨幹那如何既便捷又不會去失去它的準則不然的話有可能會造成災難加油謝謝委員的指導 謝謝好 謝謝吳委員接下來我們請賴世保委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
2295.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
2300.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
謝謝主席即刻先進有請軍公會的彭主委請彭主委委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
2305.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
2329.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
我們今天主席拍這個題目其實是很大的題目也拍得很好啦普惠金融讓台灣的每一個民眾都能夠享受到金融的服務不要有這個差別待遇等等的我覺得這個還有Fintech等一下談Fintech可是我比較關心的是這個有關於這個打炸部分最近一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
2330.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
2357.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這個很熱門的題目啊就太子集團跨國洗清案他在台灣45億新台幣在美國英國140億美元的比特幣這裡面上億的現金交易買不動產幫他買幾棟幾戶的豪宅買汽車特別是超跑動輒千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
2360.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
2370.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
這個都現金交易耶 我們銀行是幹什麼啊銀行對於小老百姓 自己的錢提令10萬 問東問西 羅羅碩碩 羅里巴碩一堆還問 問了十幾分鐘 有時候20分鐘 10萬 20萬 問了大家已經引起民怨了 可是對於這個詐欺犯動輒幾億 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
2385.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
2413.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
幾十億的現金轉賬或者現金這樣提令都沒有關係耶這營養幹什麼啊你們營養擠睡覺啊謝謝委員給我這個機會來跟國人說明其實先講這兩個是完全不一樣的一個是剛剛講我們對那個主詐的部分呢那是因為會保護民眾的財產做的那剛剛講是反洗錢的作為那我想剛剛委員其實剛剛提到我們都在睡那是媒體在說的你們在睡啊你們在睡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
2414.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
2442.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
他為什麼幾十億可以從現金帳戶出去我們其實在10月14號的時候因為收到美國的製裁我們15號就精簡接下來我們也對這個內容也做一些非常細緻的到每一家而且銀行局把每一家涉案銀行都來約尋其實這是一個不是只有台灣發生的問題但是我們要確保銀行是否有沒有善盡你在整個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
2442.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
2464.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
反洗錢環節上你們現在到4月16號才要交報告啊那為什麼這麼久呢不是 美國我們14號收到這訊息我們馬上凍結這相關的這個帳戶再來我們15號就去經檢說奇怪你這筆金流是怎麼來的你有沒有做大額的通報有沒有去做EDD CDD這些東西都是我們關切的所以依然有犯規 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
2466.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
2473.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
銀行有犯規是不是不是 我們想知道第一件事情我們要解決問題一定要先了解問題這些詐騙犯進出的銀行有沒有違規啦對 這就是我跟委員報告有沒有 你回答我 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
2482.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
2498.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我實際有信你不要現在我們在了解的重點待會我們可以請我們檢察局局長跟委員做說明其實銀行端其實整個的防範體系不是只有金流而已它也包括資金匯入還有就是我們在這部分這個你避重求輕啊主委啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
2499.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
2524.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
不才令人這麼聰明的對這個重要的問題不是 委員很多在偵辦中的案子我實在不適合在這個公開的場合說明這件事情你也不要洩露銀行的名稱我都沒有但是你對於這些他總是有銀行帳戶啊進出幾十億啊你們掌握沒有當然有掌握請問幾家銀行 幾家銀行告訴我我們總共有十家銀行十家銀行有進出掌握你們處理什麼總共我們可以看得出來他這些不 你做什麼事啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
2529.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
2547.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
銀行局做什麼事銀行局第一個我們是兩個部分檢查的話我們檢查局立刻就進駐到各個銀行檢查他每一筆的金流現在初步來看的話初步現在因為我們這個這個部分要仔細的去看這內容至少他在通報上是沒有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
2549.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
2560.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
主要是老百姓聽不頂就聽不頂不服銀行在反洗錢很重要KYC KYC一定是會做的結果銀行可以讓幾億的資金這樣子如入無人之地這樣子進出老百姓不服啊跟你講啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
2573.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
2587.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
委員這是這樣當我一件事情已經知道它是犯罪你回推的時候當然可以看出來但是我們每天這麼多的外資進來我們自然有一個把關的機制這不是比如說我們有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
2588.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
2603.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
橋外投審的這個機制一定都有設立公司有一定的機制金流進來我們該做的KYC有做這10家的銀行有沒有問題你告訴我嘛現在初步來看他們在做這個大額通報應該是應該是都符合規定所以都沒有問題不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
2604.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
2628.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
他們配合詐騙的一個進出面筆不能這麼說我想說銀行在第一個針對異常交易大額交易他必須做反洗錢的通報接下來他對任何一筆交易他覺得有必要他必須做客戶淨值調查如果認為他有比較要進一步他會做加強的淨值調查這部分需要花時間去理解而且這重點是你說一堆漏漏的 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
2631.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
2639.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
外界 最少我聽的就是說這世家硬朗他進出了都沒有問題所以他炸天的經歷他進出都沒有問題怎麼會這樣子呢因為這個問題不是那麼簡單就三頁良就是他沒有問題因為我們要公開場合 我也知道不是那麼簡單啦不是 有沒有問題不是說我們說了算要看證據說話 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
2651.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
2657.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
對啦 所以證據就是但是我們知道這是一個確實是一個國際上面的問題我們要來處理它那你就告訴我們你今天的回答就告訴我們金管會對於詐騙集團聚合資金的進出你們沒有皮條 沒有辦法沒有 這個委員會這麼說老百姓不服啊其實我覺得不是說不要扯這個了 來不是 我覺得不應該解放這個問題來來來 第二個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
2676.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
2684.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我覺得不應該簡化這個問題這是我們要面對的問題要解決的問題要先面對你這個回答我很失望第二個問題授權是不是明年開始用IVA17結果你因為授權在去年花了三千八百多億過去十年花了兩兆因為要避嫌 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
2703.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
2720.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
因為匯率的變動損失很大結果你們去改它的國際規範要公允性透明性結果你們改它開一個後門讓它美化帳面委員這完全不是這樣讓我講不要急這個很像一個人我有發燒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
2725.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
2744.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我發燒了 我已經38度結果你說 這個你沒有發燒因為溫度計不對我把它改成換一個溫度計36度完全不是這樣你為什麼去改它呢這我很有自信我研究這個研究十幾年我非常清楚我質詢是因為我看到台大的教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
2744.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
2768.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
看到政大的教授 相關的保險系教授都在罵你啊都在罵你啊政大的李同豪教授罵你罵得很兇啊我也看到林士明教授 王一新教授有不同的看法罵你罵得很兇啊沒有關係 我們政策可以被批評但是我覺得這是個專業的問題你怎麼可以改國際的準則呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
2772.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
2775.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
為什麼可以改變台灣的準則你跟國際接軌勒你還跟國際接軌勒我跟你講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
2790.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
2805.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
當初匯率急升他有很大的損失但是又回來了啊 他貶回來了啊委員講到一個重點他貶回來所以根本你不要去替他們善後啊他們自己會市場會善後啊我想委員這是一個非常專業的問題我知道非常專業啊所以你不要請你去改啊這個不是說這麼簡化的問題如果這麼簡單的話我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
2816.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
2841.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
全大的教授罵你 台大的教授也罵你 哎呀實在是不是 台大的教授林士明老師也沒有罵我我覺得這是一個可討論的議題不要把它變成是一個 這個是一個專業的問題而且這是一個我們為了面對我們整個受選院的問題你好好去說明好不好我覺得這會後我可以花多少時間我都可以跟委員解釋說明這件事情你IFRS17你有沒有去改它有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
2846.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
2873.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
全世界使用IFR-17來看其實坦白講所謂的準則它是principle base沒有一個國家是完全一樣的所以你要改它嗎 你們出來 你要改它其實IFR-17很多國家根本就不採我想這不是一個國際會議準則是要根據各種不同的需要來做的所以你是施壓給鬼啦絕對不是這樣 委員有這樣的指控如果說這部分我是沒辦法接受啦因為這是個很專業的問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
2875.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
2895.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
全支付這整個類似結構支付一樣電子支付九月份就達了63億多使用人數呢675萬結果最近一直有倒刷的問題營養局都沒有對策警察局月程是11月17要交報告為什麼這麼慢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
2895.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
2908.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
沒有這是一個我們縱偶的一個標準程序就是說當一件事情他發現縱他偶發的時候呢他要回去調查給我們一個報告因為要完整的報告所以我們就有固定的SOP希望他可以拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你拜託你 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
2920.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
2942.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
今天的題目有一個題目叫普費一個叫FinTech結果FinTech沒有明天FinTech我們最少是希望不要以金融業為主鼓勵科技業創新他可以join做一些金融業務結果你們現在都是要以什麼金融業為主要金融業底下的科技你才給他FinTech當然不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
2944.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
2970.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
委員真的不是這樣我覺得就是市場上有兩種區分叫Fintech跟Techfin很重要的金融業是特許事業當你一個所謂號稱科技業你想要做到金融業的時候你必須要有個執照這是最困難的一點太保守啦我想委員如果說你注意到我們最近幾年做的內容其實我們在我們台灣既有成文法的架構我們做很大的突破我就最後一句話講完 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
2972.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
2989.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
FinTech是以科技為主不是以銀行為主目前你是以銀行為主這是大錯特錯他是一個如果他涉及到只是技術沒有問題如果涉及到特許事業那當然全世界都是一樣的標準謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝賴委員接下來我們請郭國文委員謝謝主席有請彭主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
3008.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
3023.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
主委好我想那個玉山跟三商營的這個合併案到一個段落那過程當中有一些受到外界質疑跟爭議的地方特別是在重訓發佈的部分而重訓的發佈其實跟投資人的利害相關息息相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
3025.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
3046.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這個部分是不是有一個可能性來建立一個比較適合的規範因為之前中頂有類似的事件不論是不是特許行業或者是一般的上市櫃常常會遇到發現重訊發布不實或是延遲的問題主委這個部分有沒有可能製造製作一個新的指引來做一個規範以免影響到投資人的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
3048.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
3068.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
謝謝委員就是我們在那個交易所他的重大就是要發重訊裡面上次也提到為什麼會有51款就是每一次的案件呢都提供一個新的新的大家思考的那個重點像這次的話我們也會請交易所針對這次案子有沒有我們看看有沒有什麼可以再把這個東西做一個更明確化的 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
3069.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
3085.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
對有一個比較明確化的指引出來不是時不時當然是判斷會比較清楚但是延不延後然後哪些該弄一定是從投資人的角度權益來做一個最基本的判註當然這也是我們那個重訓很重要的一個資訊充分的透明跟揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
3086.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
3100.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
沒有錯 我覺得對投資人的權益來說非常的關鍵另外一個部分跟投資人也非常關鍵之前我約莫在一年多前就問過您的部分有些外資用機器人高頻交易你當初的回答是說你會去進行調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
3101.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
3121.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
可是這個傳言其實從2020的時候就開始有進行高頻交易進行不公平的一個交易行為目前只有券商可以進行申請現在已經有知道說有一些外資跟券商合作也就是說直接由客戶是不是變成是那種變相性的由客戶直接下單而不是只有透過法人或券商這是第一個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
3122.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
3147.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
第二個部分從事高頻交易要用到機器人基本上如果沒有這個身分那他是不是就代表違法另外我們是不是要限制主機共置的這些券商券商本身進行的話不能由客人用機器人來處理否則的話這不公平的交易是存在而這個部分後來你再調查現在目前的這樣的交易行為還是存在要怎麼處理 怎麼管理 怎麼面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
3149.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
3171.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
確實去年委員關心就是說有一些少數的交易人他透過高頻交易或許特別是委員也關心當沖的時候是不是很多高頻交易是不是牽涉到公平性的問題這一點的話確實委員也提到我們也有請交易所去了解這也都在我們現有的監控機制裡面這部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
3173.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
3201.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
現階段我現在一直沒辦法跟委員回答現在的問題是聊起一年多了對我知道他們有在處理待會的話我就請我們的那個政協局那張局長跟委員再說明一下看他們現在的狀況是如何那局長要來回答的時候順便回答一個問題好了因為上一次我有問到有關於這個開曼群島第三地來台灣進行隔日沖的這個問題的時候也說要去調查也沒有給我任何訊息這個好像在允許短期的這種炒作方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
3203.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
3228.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
假外資來做短期的炒作方式當初也說要去查也沒有查到結果這兩題能不能一併回答一下好 謝謝局長 張局長請我先回答您的有關於假外資的問題的查詢問題其實我們現在交易所已經運用AI的方式去追索那可能的問題把它抓出來用AI的方式去瞭解這種他們的互動方式那結果呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
3229.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
3237.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
目前交易所還沒有回報我們都沒有任何回報這個已經也很久了局長你至少追蹤一下我們諮詢因為這兩個都沒有回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
3241.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
3259.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
所以說這個基本上現在的整個交易方式因為整個金融科技的一個方式手段越來越創新以至於衍生出來不是一種金融商品的增加而是交易行為的不公平懂得運用這些人就懂了一些手法形成整個交易市場造成一些人的權益的損益損傷損害 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
3261.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
3285.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那個主委能不能請他限期一個時間給我沒問題我想這部分我們剛才包括前面那個議題我們盡快的把這些完整的內容給委員說對啦 這個趕快啦這個傳言不斷那金管會外面的對金管會的整個公信也是會受損嘛那另外一個部分在今天的報告當中主委我就就教於您了有關金融科技的部分已經預計要成立一個創投基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
3289.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
3315.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那創投基金你要創投基金你要有標的過往我們在金融園區1.0的時候受到人家詬病的部分沙盒實驗的這個成果其實非常有限那你沒有標的的情況下你打舉募集這個60億到70億的基金然後來自於這四大這個金控公司金控然後現階段這個金控到底有沒有什麼投資標的這是誰在負責這個完全在你報告當中沒有看出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
3316.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
3338.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
這個是因為我們在金總下面我們過去有一個永續金融先行者聯盟成功的經驗那我們就想說因為我們希望未來的金融科技能夠打群體戰用大家集體的資源所以我們請這幾家金控公司在金總下面成立一個金融科技發展聯盟他們聯盟裡面就提出來就是說他們要集中比如投資一個對未來整個金融產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
3339.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
3361.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
未來可能有發展的一些新創事業所以他們自發性的由他們自己來成立那現在是由凱基來負責這一塊因為他們每家經貨公司有一個不同區塊像比如說跨業合作部分是國泰金在負責像比如打榨的部分是有玉山跟中興在做所以那個比如說在基金創投的部分因為他們以前有那個所以凱基扮演比較重要的角色對就是他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
3362.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
3382.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
來負責這個業務當然怎麼籌集怎麼那個架構是他們在整個金融的那個產業聯盟是屬於業者之間政府是沒有出資的可是問題是他還是要投資標的啊對所以他們會去想就是他們在整個小組裡面就有去討論說未來這個成立以後是什麼樣架構然後接下來是成立一個第一個是屬於比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
3384.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
3408.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
最近是著重在AI的投資還是在什麼樣的投資因為是在你們報告當中我以為政府有所主導結果你說是業者自行的行為這個是在我們的建構之下建議他們成立所以他們也成立那你至少要跟你現在創新2.0結合在一起以前被人家詬病創新2.0沙盒時間非常的少而每次你們講到這個Fintech談到這個金融科技的時候常常講的就一個案子最成功 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
3410.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
3438.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
就最多的就是談到這一個有關於移工的這個部分的外匯隊的部分確實因為我們沙盒條例裡面有個很大很大的問題就是它的落地機制屬於一個非常大的不確定這是我們這次要來修這次的沙盒條例但是我們也不會因為等這個所以剛剛跟委員報告我們過去我們希望來針對那個事辦來做一個這個開始來努力各位可以看出從去年開始我們事辦案就大幅增加而且我們大幅的放寬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
3439.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
3455.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
整個事辦所以這個某種程度我們也在鼓勵這件事情只是說這是好現象對 但是我們沙盒條例要經過大院的修正才有辦法解決這個問題事辦條例增加之後你要如何讓它落地能夠增加這是一個這是一個很大的問題事辦就是我們可以落地的但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
3456.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
3473.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
沙盒條例就比較要經過修法對 你要修法之外你現在既有的還沒有修法之前的一個認定會不會過度嚴格以至於現在真正你們談到這個金融科技落地成功的沙盒實驗大部分都是國外小額匯兌而小額匯兌落地之後能不能擴大又是一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
3474.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
3487.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
因為本來是沙盒實驗成功的政策落地之後應該擴大這種金融服務的可能性我舉你們說的成功的例子國外小額會對到目前為止這個沙盒實驗成功落地之後它還僅限於移工 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
3488.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
3506.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
對 當時就是他的那問題是小兒會對這個方式其實對國人來說也需要譬如講我留學或者是我遊學或者是我旅行或者是我洽工我現在在國外的部分甚至旅行的時候我們用手機用電子支付的部分它還是有會差損的一個問題也就是說決定什麼時候會對是在於那個支付公司來做處理而不是由我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
3515.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
3529.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
可是我如果說能夠有這一個小額匯兌的話我就可以有一個電子支付的帳戶由我自己做決定從我自己的外幣的存款當中來進行扣款這個部分國文就不能想到這一個小額匯兌的金融服務因為過去他們在申請的時候確實是針對台灣幾十萬的外籍義工的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
3536.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
3558.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
但是剛才講說這個東西技術上是沒有差別的就是誰來做都是可以做到的我想說在做我們的普惠金融的那個角度來看我覺得這是一個很好的思考的方向對啊 這個就是可以增加讓你沙盒實驗的效果政策的效益可以有外溢嘛而不是局限在特定的對象嘛不要說是移工部分的外國人可能會用得到甚至本國 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
3559.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
3578.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
本國的民眾也不能用得到啊像我們常常在出國的部分如果出國的話我們要用電子支付的話你就收控於人嘛這個明明可以這樣做的我是想說那個主委既然可以這個落地成功就應該讓他有一些延伸性的服務擴大對象的可能我們請主委回去研究看看這我們來思考 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
3579.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
3589.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
思考一下好不好好 謝謝另外最後一個問題我要問一下主委的部分當然中國的曝險你經過這幾年的努力五年的努力之後從原來的41%降到15%足足少了26%但這裡頭還是有一個問題有時候子行跟分行在計算這個風險的部分的概念的一個問題對 是不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
3599.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
3618.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那紙行的部分就我所知道的在今年6月的統計的時候國營在中國的部分的紙行有5家之多在這5家當中又有45家的紙行夯不啷噹加起來這些分支機構他的壽信跟貸帳到底有多少不能只算投資額嘛那引力的整個曝險嘛那像以前富邦的部分哈爾濱投資就 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
3620.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
3648.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
虧損了一大堆那你虧損出來那個金額跟你原來的曝險金額差很多那顯然是跟實際狀況不符這部分有沒有可能一個解決的方向 主委確實就是當時我們在訂立這個曝險把分子公司做不一樣的區隔是從一個法律的角度來思考假設我們從一個風險 曝險的角度來思考的話我們其實內部已經在思考另外一種計算的方式大概是可以怎麼樣忠實呈現假設在極端情況之下的話會產生什麼樣的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
3650.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
3678.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我覺得應該忠實呈現嘛所以忠實呈現的情況底下現在就不會只有15person啊搞不好又會躍升嘛那我們其實現在已經當到15了如何讓他忠實呈現我覺得很關鍵其實委員講到一個重點重點不是在於指標的是在於我們風險有沒有確實被管控對沒有錯那風險適合管控你至少指標你要抓準嘛好不好請主委回去好好思考一下紙行的部分應該讓他真實的呈現就風險要一致的控管麻煩主委謝謝謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
3679.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
3682.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
謝謝我們國務委員接下來請賴會員委員謝謝主席有請主委請捧主委委員好主委你好我想今天針對的就是普惠金融跟你做一個討教 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
3706.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
3730.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
主委我是鄉下立委我是台南最鄉下最偏鄉顯出來的立法委員那在這一次7月8號丹娜斯颱風重創整個台南的西北地區那我們在這一個過程裡頭我們看到了就是我們偏鄉的普惠金融缺了太多太多 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
3731.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
3759.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
你知道這個我們連續有七天的時間是沒有辦法上班沒有辦法上課因為台南市政府公布就是有五天不上班不上課那在停電又沒有網路其實台南變成一個新時代的一個新孤兒這個也是發生在花蓮可是在這一次花蓮這個狀況因為樹花部他啟動了一個數位數位網路行動車 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
3760.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
3773.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
所以他基本上他的網路是通的可是在這裡我要請教主委我們有一個行動銀行車這個行動銀行車現在全國有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
3774.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
3800.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
有幾台這個很抱歉我確實不知道不是行動車服務車對我想我稍微了解一下再跟委員報告確實這是我們本來以為就是我們推動數位數位金融的時候某種程度就彌補了那個比如說很多據點實體據點的不足這是剛好斷水斷電連網路都沒有了連這個都斷掉也對我們的韌性產生一個很大的一個警訊就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
3801.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
3828.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
萬一在這種很極端情況之下連我們過去想說實體的據點沒有的時候我們可以透過數位的方式這也斷的時候該怎麼樣提供服務這個是非常嚴重的一個問題有7天的時間我們甚至就是說我們的ATM都是酒頭走的我們的APP都是塑膠的完全都是沒有能量的這個是造成一個非常大的一個癱瘓的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
3830.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
3844.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那我不知道你們針對的這些問題有沒有就是說做一個檢討在氣候異常普遍像現階段現階段今天有11個縣市11個縣市發布就是說停班停課好這個颱風會從哪邊上來據說就是我們看整個數據圖的話它衛星雲圖的話它是會從高雄跟屏東上來那如果又是一個這麼大的一個災難的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
3860.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
3862.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那我們的金融服務在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
3863.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
3890.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
對 確實委員剛剛提到一個就是我們在面對極端氣候的時候我們過去可能很多問題沒有想像它會發生這麼久這麼長其實我們在過去發生颱風的時候我們會趕快請金融機構調查它的受損情況以及如何快速恢復但這是面對到像比如中南部丹尼斯颱風還有像比如花蓮光復鄉的那部分光復鄉還好是一個小小局部它在旁邊還可以提供但是像台南雲嘉南這一整塊的時候你看那個三千多支電桿一起倒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
3891.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
3912.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
任何一個極端情況這也給我們很好的教訓回去我會請那個所以我想主委你的金融國土安全責任在哪裡是不是有辦法就是說在一年內你跟電信業跟科技業合作就是說有一套移動式的金融服務站這個事實上我相信在未來你會普遍用得到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
3913.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
3936.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
對就後來是網路如果電力能恢復的話我們大部分的數位金融是可以服務的啦但在這個東西中斷的時候像我們這次看到這麼久的電力跟網路中斷的時候我們可以有什麼方法可以讓民眾能夠取得基本的金融服務這件事情因為金融服務是每天都要用錢每天都要花錢所以主委我想在這裡對你我都一直有很大的一個期待跟尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
3937.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
3966.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我想每一次颱風來的時候尤其氣候的一個異常每一個颱風其實都是一個重大颱風像我們這兩天我們開始又在擔心我們的屋頂還蓋著環布那萬一這個颱風又來的時候我們這個環布會被掀開了我們該怎麼辦這個傷口又再一次的一個撕裂所以這個也是在這一次跟你提出來我希望就是你要有一套方式接著跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
3967.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
3973.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
主委再探討就是當然是颱風3月過去了在風災單日爆發了10億的一個農業損失農業保險的一個出險867件到現在目前為止大概還有絕大多數絕大多數我們沒有一個數據絕大多數的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
3987.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
4002.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
絕大多數的農民他其實是沒有拿到理賠的一個保險那我們從農業保險法裡頭他第四條就是說他寫的很明白沒有規定的是用保險法因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
4003.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
4020.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那個榮寶裡頭他寫說他沒有寫這個理賠的實現可是你在保險法第34條裡頭規定說在15天內要幾戶可是要齊備就是文件的一個期遣好這個文件的期遣由誰來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
4022.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
4046.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
跟委員報告就是我們從歷次的經驗裡面只要這個封餐因為剛剛委員提到有兩塊一個就是我們政策性的農業保險就是由農業部在主政像比如說毛豬這些的保險那另外是商業保險保的像比如說像什麼芭樂 香蕉這些那個保險那這個部分商業保險的話它是按照那個保險法但商業保險的那個現在保和跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
4047.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
4064.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
都比較小這個部分我們每次發生這個情況的時候就是像我們保險裡面這裡面保險局都快速的督促他們從過去的資料回報裡面特別是像比如說我們現在產險公司做很多參數保險參數保險就比如說雨量達到多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
4065.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
4090.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
沒有 主委 我現在要跟你探討了不管是農業還是商業的一個保險就是說 大家好像是在作文比賽啊你那個文件的資料的一個補齊這個農民 賣香蝦我告訴你 蝦三次到現在還有補三次還有補三次的所以是不是有機會就是說這個理賠制度我們重新再來檢討一下這個我們會來檢討就是 等於說任何一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
4091.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
4109.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
像這個在我們的瞭解我們會督促商業保險公司做這個其實只有幾家在做我們都會要求他們這個東西一旦發生不管是地震或是天災的時候一定要儘速理賠儘速查看所以我們才會推開跟委員報告那參數保險你根本不用準備這些東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
4109.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
4135.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
主委你的要求是這樣子那實際上有沒有這樣做顯然是沒有是不是可以就是說以保險事故發生的時候你的初選的通報初選的通報開始算做於就是開始算然後明定保險公司要在15天以內就是說你要完成勘查完成審核那審核完畢了以後你7天內要撥款入帳有沒有辦法這樣要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
4138.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
4164.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
你要踩死啦 你踩死了以後 他們其實基本上那個效能才會出來不然這個都是花糠的 你知道嗎了解了解 我想跟剛剛講啦 就說剛剛委員提到那個保險法的規定應該是最低標啦最低標 那是最低標那我們再來 連我們低標都做不到啊再來請保險局 剛剛就委員剛剛講的方向 對農民太抱歉了對 我們能夠提升服務 提升效率 我們來朝這個方向來研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
4164.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
4179.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
所以主委用你的金融科技發展跟創新的實驗條例有沒有辦法就是從農業保險的理賠數位化先來示範這個示範不用走這一條這其實上用示範更簡單就可以做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
4179.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
4194.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
對啊那是不是可以做呢這個現在其實他們一直在做像剛才跟我們講我們最新的叫參數型的保險參數型保險就是你不用舉證了只要氣溫低於多少或是說我這個雨量達到多少他就給他就給付你根本不用舉證 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
4195.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
4220.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
所以這很好啊那為什麼前面還有這麼多的一個代表的保險呢像有些他一定要勘栽對不對像有人也建議說國外用那個空拍機勘栽比如說我是保那個高階梨我怎麼知道現在的損失的情況所以就是說把它加進來嘛空拍的技術嘛你判定你的範圍嘛還有你的氣象資料這個其實我們已經在做了嘛通常這個是我們在這個農委會在做這個時候呢他們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
4221.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
4250.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
你要指導他們錢是你在管的保險也是你在管的你必須要去指導他們他那部分跟委員報告他那部分不歸我管所以主委您已經知道問題在哪裡了我覺得跨部會跨部會的一個合作是必須要的好 再來跟主委請教金融教育的一個歧視我想這個金融教育的一個歧視真的就是說其實本席在這一年當中我做了很多偏鄉的孩子的一個金融學習 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
4251.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
4257.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我一個委員 一個民意代表都可以去做這麼多的偏鄉的讓孩子的一個金融學習那我希望金管會不是喊口號而不是只有在都會區因為我們看到的很多的數字是美化的其實我跟你講城市的孩子這個當然也可以講是城鄉的差距 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
4279.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
4288.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
可是當我們在偏鄉裡頭很多的一個農民還有就是移工的小孩的時候其實金融的一個學習是他們迫切需要你需要加強的這個也是我一直在跟你講說我來自一個最貧窮最鄉下的一個委員我們實際上看到了一個在金融教育上的一個缺失是不是有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
4305.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
4334.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那個有一個比較具體的我們希望就是說不要是在總行旁邊辦了幾個活動然後找那種最最大的一個學校然後我們就把我今天做了幾個這個這個金融交易所以我們有大概300個500個孩子一起來參與可是事實上這樣的一個點這樣的一個孩子他們本身外在的條件太多了應該是要放到偏鄉去主委你不是也是整個孩子嗎是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
4335.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
4344.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
是啊 這幾個會發生什麼事如果我們有更好的一個偏鄉教育的話我們可能會多了好多個優秀的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
4345.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
4372.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
沒有 這個我想提到委員這個絕對是我們努力的方向比如說我跟委員講簡單像我們在我們有個周邊當然叫做那個金融研訓員他有個普惠處他專門來做各個偏鄉的這些的金融教育我想我們做得不夠好大家感受不到我們會來持續努力會按照這個委員的方向我們持續來做不要讓偏鄉的孩子一輸就輸在這個金融知識的一個起跑線上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
4374.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
4377.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
謝謝謝謝謝謝賴委員接下來我們請李燕秀委員謝謝我可不可以邀請主委好請碰主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
4395.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
4421.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
主委早安 股神巴菲特高齡已經95歲他在前一陣子感恩節的時候他寫了一封告別信給Berkshire Hathaway他自己的公司他要卸下執行長的職務他裡面特別透露一件事情我覺得非常有意思包括他提到美國監管會的機構過去從2008年有一個薪資的揭露制度這個制度他說本來是好意卻勢的其反 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
4421.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
4437.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
因為這個薪資的揭露制度我們本來是希望他們本來是希望說薪資更合理化不僅是CEO拿到合理的數字那包括也可以照顧中低的這個公司的員工但是最後在美國卻變成他認為在美國卻變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
4441.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
4446.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
各自CEO各自各個公司比來比去那當然我們台灣很多制度也學習美國從2018開始我們政府就已經實施一連串的薪資揭露制度這個制度我個人是支持的 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
4456.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
4478.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那我們本來是希望說可以公佈全體薪資包括非主管局的平均薪資透過這些揭露的制度可以讓薪資更合理化那解決低薪跟肥貓的狀況那當時的報紙我還記得他當時特別提到說基層年薪差董姦200倍好我們從2018實施到現在主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
4483.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
4496.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
你覺得這個薪資包括照顧所有的上市商會公司的員工薪資揭露之後但是真的有更合理化嗎也就是有跟著這些揭露制度薪資跟著上漲嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
4498.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
4519.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
謝謝委員剛才提到巴菲特當然是大家全球矚目的人物他的任何的說話大家都會要非常的關注他也點出了美國在過去一直在對這個薪資的揭露的我指我們我們學習美國薪資揭露確實陳主委員來講在我今天這個工作之前這麼多年來我們一直比如說對 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
4520.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
4534.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
董監高屆主管薪水持續透明化那特別是比如說我們在對上市櫃公司有些比如虧損的公司特別要揭露但我們最近像去年我們我們大院也通過那個政交法14條希望為這個基層員工加薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
4537.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
4553.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
你直接告訴我其實像薪資的透明化如果沒有透明化我們當然也不會知道台肥的董事長的薪資是高達一千五百萬是總統的兩倍是院長的三倍是朱偉寧的五倍但是這個薪資揭露我個人是支持也沒有錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
4553.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
4579.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
但是真的有助於基層員工的好心情嗎我想沒有大家都很清楚這幾年大家都說那個薪資高的就越來越高但是經濟成長也好但是很多基層員工沒有感受到這個公司的包括GDP的比重長期趨勢是下滑的所以我們看到薪資揭露制度並沒有跟著我們本來希望達到的目的跟著中下階層的這些基層員工薪資跟著上漲 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
4582.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
4591.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這是事實從央行的數據 主席總書的數據跟您這邊的數據我們可以看得到所以制度上到底應該要怎麼調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
4592.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
4620.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
其實我跟委員講就是說基本上剛才委員說我們只因為這個揭露的關係會不會影響到整個所謂的薪資的提升我想這個問題很複雜不是只有這個揭露只是所以我們還是揭露我支持揭露透明化但是還沒有達到我們真正的目的我們真正目的本來是透過薪資揭露達到就是說所有的員工可以都跟著公司好所有的員工其實也可以跟著成長這個揭露不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
4620.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
4649.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
他的目的不是為了要讓比如說薪資提高這麼簡單如果揭露就可以提高或降低當然還有別的目的他只是說在一個資訊透明的過程當中我們希望比如說我們在公司經營的時候你確切的比如說跟你的經營的成果這當然是其中一環但是所有基層員工我關注的是這一條怎麼樣跟著基層員工跟著公司好基層員工也有好心情對啦就是其實我們所以這個問題怎麼解決主委你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
4649.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
4666.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
比如說就像我們主政的這些的上市櫃公司我們看到確實上市櫃公司是台灣的算是一個頂尖精英公司了過去這麼多年確實他們的那薪資怎麼合理化包括那一天院長也同意就是說我們關股有投資的未來應該要檢討這個機制怎麼樣回捐或是什麼樣的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
4671.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
4698.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
就是我們上市櫃公司的薪資過去確實是有明顯的增加但是全體的國人並不是每個人都在上市櫃公司上班而且產業也不同我知道但是我先提在你主管底下的我們怎麼樣讓基層員工也有好心情這是我的問題從我們可以著力的地方像比如說我們從今年開始我們規定你IPO假設新公司你要來IPO就是你要來上市的時候你必須要滿足你的基層員工一定的薪水 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
4698.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
4713.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
比如說我要是基本工資的至少1.3倍以上好主委我希望因為我這個問題我想就此打住我希望主委我們上市商櫃公司它是具有規模的公司它也是一個指標性在台灣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
4713.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
4738.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
企業所以我覺得在你手邊可以有更多的工具我們應該善用我們這樣子才有達到部分我們提到我們薪資公開透明揭露制度的目的我們也希望透過你手邊有的工具可以讓所有的員工也可以有好心情這個好心情是心情好而且薪資好的好心情我剛才希望朝這方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
4739.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
4761.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
希望主委有更多的工具可以善用你手邊有工具我覺得應該善用第二個問題主委就是二代健保補充保費的議題這個議題之前我記得我上個會期好像有跟你問過你回答我說你沒有跟你溝通過因為這件事情在媒體上還有包括這幾天都看到小資族也好純股族也好全部都炸鍋 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
4762.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
4782.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那整個行政院現在就是我們先暫緩但是先暫緩目標還是往前進這跟我們普惠金融其實的精神是有點互相違背我們本來希望透過普惠金融讓社會階層都能夠便利的使用包括儲蓄投資保險信用等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
4783.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
4811.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
但是很多存股族還有小資族都覺得到底一層牛要扒幾次皮四五次皮那我們更擔心說這些人有些人會不會轉向地下投資經濟更何況有一些人說我乾脆有錢的人他可能我買實體黃金我買字畫我就避開這些他有更多的工具有不同的投資方式可以使用但這不是我們想見到的或甚至投下地下經濟這都是我們不要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
4813.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
4841.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我覺得這跟我們普惠金融的精神是互相違背的所以到底主委你對於二代補充健保的保費現在陳時中政委這樣的一個說法你的看法到底是什麼然後第二你覺得如果要調高你個人覺得調高到多少是一個合理的數字對我想這個不會避免小資族的金融參與不會打擊到這些人他們覺得已經被剝削到一層牛扒了好幾次皮 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
4842.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
4858.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
對 早上也有其他委員提到我想健保的整個的費率政策那是試射到衛福部但是因為他今天的增加的標的是來自於鼓勵收益的部分那當然一定會對市場會產生的這個影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
4859.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
4883.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
比如說他這裡面很多主委你直接回來因為我剩下十幾秒你可不可以告訴我你覺得多少是一個合理的數字不會排除到因為我們包括我們當沖降稅你當時的提的說我們如果這不延長的話這個會影響到股市的流動等等我們其實有很多工具都希望合理的讓更多人可以投資進來小資族可以進來合理的有一個投資的機會但是你這件事情對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
4885.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
4896.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
小資族是有打擊的所以什麼樣是一個合理的數字如果行政院這樣決定的話你個人認為你總是有態度跟意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
4897.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
4919 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我想說什麼合理數字我真的不方便回答這個問題但是我基於金管會的管理資本市場的職權跟專業我會提供完整的影響的相關的項目跟可能的程度給我們的主政單位參加你會不會捍衛小資族的權益我們會捍衛資本市場的公平性跟透明性 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
4920.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
4942.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
主委我還是基於我的辭職我還是要提醒你包括我們當沖降稅我們當時延長是說如果沒有通過的話我們的流動性這個台股的成交量流動性會降低三成所以大家都很緊張你們也很緊張那不分朝野黨派也就支持了包括我們現在在推動普惠金融TISA也是我們都希望透過一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
4943.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
4959.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
很低成本那定額的投資建立民眾長期投資但是我覺得這都這樣的一個政策二代健保的政策如果你們如果沒有處理好的話這個就是打擊你一手又在鼓勵大家長期投資但是你一手又在打擊這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
4960.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
4981.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
合法合理的定存的一些小資族的投資的機會各個部會有他專業的考驗但是我們記憶金管我一定會把這個完整的資訊提供給他們做參考就像我們在稅的部分我覺得主委你必須要更強勢去表達這件事情否則的話對股市還是會有影響包括你長期推動的政策會有衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
4982.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
5002.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我最后一个问题就是美国的债务的问题越来越严重IMF的前一阵子说五年之内他的债务会超过意大利跟希腊那到2030年他的债务会达到143%主委你对于IMF的评估国际货币基金的看法你是不是认同这一点 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
5003.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
5021.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
IMF是一個國際上非常專業權威的機構那你認不認同他的評估美國債務非常嚴重到2030年會超過我想他任何的事情都值得我們來注意但是這只是一個他是這麼一個權威的機構我想大家都應該好好的思考各種不同的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
5021.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
5047.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
對於我們現在八大公股銀行有投資美債的水位這些銀行你未來會做什麼樣的建議會不會主動要求他們或建議他們應該調配美債的一些配置其實我們對金融機構他們各自的封控我們都有一套機制會督促他這個不會針對是哪一個但是他整體來講他比我們更清楚但是我們會透過監理的方式請他們你也提醒你也認同艾恩福的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
5047.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
5060.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
IMF做過很多很多提醒其實有很多的正反的提醒我覺得這麼一個權威機構提出的大家都要注意因為風險無所不在也不能輕忽即使IMF不提醒我們他們自己的風險管理機制也要啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
5061.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
5085.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
所以你也會提醒他們你也會跟他們這個巴拉公股銀行提醒他們報告在美債配置的部分也應該我們任何的這個事情他們都是他們日常他應該都要注意各種的訊息跟該有的警訊都要做出因應好謝謝主委謝謝李委員接下來我們請鍾嘉賓委員那等一會在林思明委員執行完結束之後我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
5095.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
5103.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
主席在場的委員先進列席的政府經貿市長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請金管會彭主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
5106.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
5134.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
委員長主委好現在AI很夯那麼我們在談到說使用金融機構你這邊寫AI科技主柵對不對是我們今晚會提出來一個專題報告那麼要建構金融大語言模型AI科技主柵但是有沒有看到有一個報導就是屬於G20當中有一個FSB就是金融穩定委員會他提到了如果金融機構使用相同的人工智慧的AI模型和特定的硬體 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
5135.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
5161.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
可能會引發羊群效應主委大家知道什麼是羊群效應嗎知道是後面的跟著前面走前面的跟著前面的走就是比較不理性的群體行為是的那對於這樣的一個風險今晚會有開始去做一些因應之道嗎其實這個問題一直出現在比如說我們很多科技集中在所謂的幾個比如說Big Five Big Seven這些東西的時候像我們的雲端還有很多的這些科技集中在這裡都有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
5162.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
5163.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
我確定主委已經了解這個原因可能了那怎麼樣因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
5182.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
5207.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我想這件事情就剛才陳總委員提到了就是我們每個階段不一樣那我們就會請他們自己其實坦白講我們在這麼多年來希望建立一個金融機構自我的風險管理的管控機制所以建議他們不要用同樣的AI模型嗎也不是 他很多時候沒有選擇但是他必須在沒有選擇裡面做出最大的選擇做出區隔對 做出最大的選擇這就是我要的就像為什麼一艘船要防水隔艙要區隔 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
5209.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
5232.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
所以金管會未來可不可以針對這個部分在AI的趨勢下先預擬怎麼樣讓各機關如果沒有辦法沒有選擇模型的這個餘地那怎麼樣做出區隔避免大家同一個時間都犯同樣的錯誤可以嗎這也是我們在因為我們的AI 2.0到今年結束我們明年會推出這個下一階段的這個就是我們很重點的下一個階段重點工作好可以了那我們現在看另外問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
5233.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
5262.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
監察院的報告最近讓人家很注目他提到安養信託跟以防養老的貸款成效差主委知道這樣的一個報告內容嗎我有看到你有看到那您覺得問題出在哪裡呢其實我先不談安養信託我們先談以防養老問題出在哪裡我覺得是民眾的觀念我覺得在當初我們推出這個想法的時候很多其實這個不是有很精準的這些理論來是不是會他的報告說集中在六都而且幾戶偏低是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
5262.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
5281.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
當然就是這個東西它的誘因夠不夠民眾覺得這個成本的問題我簡單分析一下您聽聽看一般來講需要養老的人如果他是高資產族群他根本不需要那麼他的資產不是那麼多他才需要以防養老但是一旦他是屬於這種弱勢族群他就是老年收入不足而且這樣的人有的住在都市有的住在鄉村 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
5282.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
5298.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
如果住在都市里的他所持有的物件的价值比较低所以相对几乎金额会偏低第二他如果是住在乡村他的资产农舍不具有流通性所以他根本没办法办以防养老这就是为什么以防养老集中在六都而且几乎偏低的原因是不是这样 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
5298.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
5324.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
當然比如說以防養老背後的價值還是在於那個抵押的對象的價值跟流動性當然我們大家都知道我們所有房地產裡面最具有流動性還是在都會區裡面的房子所以說我們現在的關心到老後生活雖然推出了以防養老但是由於資產價值跟他資產存分的流動性的差異造成了城鄉差距也忽略了我們資產所有人他本身的 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
5325.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
5342.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
他的强势跟弱势好那我现在跟您请教一个问题最近闹出了一个大家悬然大波的补充保费请问魏无务之前有征询过包括我们金管会的相关的意见吗就是透过资本利得去取得二代健保的补充保费 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
5343.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
5359.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
有沒有跟你們討論過我想石部長自己也說了他在提出這個對媒體說這之前他並沒有跟我們討論過所以事實是如此那您對這個意見的看法呢因為我們知道一代健保是以薪資所得為主到了二代健保把資本利得也加進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
5359.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
5381.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
但是如果說我們資本利得是投資證券的話它會有賺有賠那麼投資失利補充保惠也沒有賠投資所得叫補充保惠這是目前很多存股族他們的不滿主委認為這樣的一個補充保惠設定在所得尤其是資本利得會不會是一個健全的財務來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
5382.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
5396.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
就是一百零二年我們提出補充保費的概念的時候把這個股利收入納入確實剛才陳主委員講的我們的股利收入的本質跟我們的比如說利息所得還是有點差異就陳主委員講的就是說很有可能我們的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
5397.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
5422.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
鼓勵有所得但是你的買賣的資本可能不是利得會產生這樣一個問題這樣我們來看一下最近中經院的李岩院長提到他說補充保費應該以資產價值而非資本利得來計算你對於以資產價值來衡量站在金管業的立場你覺得這是不是一個比較可行的方向譬如說韓國的經驗他把資產納為保費課徵的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
5427.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
5449.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
讓保費更能夠反映實質的支付能力因為我們知道我們的健保是怎樣量能收費 對不對你的能力越強不是論病計費我生越多病你跟我說多少錢這是過去沒有健保的情況但是我不管生多重的病你跟我說的保費是根據我的能力那麼所得是一個能力請問資產是不是一個支付能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
5450.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
5479.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
那當然你的資產也反映你實質的所謂的存量的概念我薪資是我的流量的概念所以如果說未來健保的財務健全考慮以資產的價值來作為一個對象您覺得金管會的立場您會考慮跟衛福部來探討這個問題嗎資產的部分可能不是在我這邊所能夠管理資產不是您管理但是您有工具可以去得知 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
5480.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
5506.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
財政部跟內政部對不對那這三個部會都會共同來面對那您個人的見解呢我覺得就是比如說連院長他提出很多的想法但是前陣子我也看到有其他不同的各自提出他專業的解決就是這個我們社會多元很重要的一個大家遇到這個問題以後大家各自提出自己解決方法像上次我也聽到以前的楊所長他提到這個商保不會健保也是一個做法我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
5508.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
5527.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
過去彭教授的時候是很勇於提出各項解決方案的所以是我覺得這部分因為這是國家的問題那如果大家對這個比如說以鼓勵這樣的方式沒有共識我們但是面臨的問題還存在大家想辦法來解決我想我們金管會如果說有什麼好方法我也會樂意提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
5527.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
5545.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那在這裡可能在未來如果有機會諮詢財政部內政部跟金管會的時候我要說明一點往上跳一頁其實我們談到所得跟資產作為健保費來客取的一個標的的時候要思考所得是為生所需那麼論能來收費 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
5546.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
5566.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
以我們來講不管是資本利得或薪資所得資本利得現在已經成為很多人被動收入成為他維持生活收入的來源所以如果對你維持生活的收入來源予以來客取這個就不能完全反映你的支付能力可是相對的以資產的價值也會有一點差異譬如說在鄉下 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
5573.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
5589.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
他先生走了之後他繼承了農舍 繼承了農地看起來資產價格很高甚至被排除在社會救助法之外不能列為中低收入的資格但是他根本沒有其他的收入那這個時候我還針對他的資產要來跟他收取保費的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
5589.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
5615.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
恐怕會影響他的生活你同意這樣的一個考慮嗎我想說一刀切的做法一定要考慮到各種不同的狀況比如資產有些人資產是等於說他很餘裕的資產有些那個資產的品質不一樣那當然就是我們如果說要朝這個方向要更要衡量這個資產本身是不是能夠反映你的支付能力所以你對於如果未來以資產價值來計算補充保費這個方向你覺得可以研議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
5616.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
5642.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我覺得任何方法都可以研議這也是一個方法之一那也要注意到說只有持有高價的房產自用無法創造收入以至於生活兼困者這種人就要排除在外我想這是個提醒我擔心說衛福部未來跟你們討論的時候我們沒有幫助他把釐清所謂的論量能收費這個能不管是你的收入能力還是你的資產能力要反映到你的支付能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
5643.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
5658.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
這三者之間是有差別的最後一個題目最後一個請教你我們現在永續金融的評鑑報告出來了說我們的透明度有提升但是是所有的業別資訊透明度都是最低的你怎麼看待這樣的一個公司治理的現況 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
5659.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
5682.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我想資訊揭露絕對沒有止境因為大家對這個東西透明度的要求會越來越高那我們只能說我們覺得可以揭露而不會產生副作用我們盡量讓它透明那你覺得目前所有的大概機構在我們永續金融評驗當中這個分數都特別低全班的同學就跟我一樣英文都是不及格都英文不及格請問英文老師在怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
5683.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
5701.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
沒有 這也是我們剛好凸顯了我們努力的方向評鑑的目的並不是想讓大家都覺得說我都100分重點是我們透過評鑑了解誰做得好 誰做不好大家還有什麼努力的方向我想是很重要的好 那我這裡面就寫了有哪些單位他覺得沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
5702.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
5731.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
按你們的標準他做的可以有進步的空間所以您是否支持未來資訊透明的提升的評分權重加重或納入特別扣分制的加重扣分項以保障投資人及消費者的權益我想這個我們會請那個他們的指標研議小組他會定期會把各種狀況納入我覺得整個社會大眾很重視資訊的透明度很重視資訊的揭露程度當然我們也了解有些公司治理上他基於公司機密他不能揭露的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
5732.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
5747.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
但是哪些該揭露哪些是屬於公司的機密金管會一定要做出一個明確的指引好不好是我們會跟那個交易所這邊的針對這一塊每一個案例都是一個很好我們來檢討制度的機會啦謝謝主委謝謝謝謝委員謝謝謝謝總委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
5762.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
5770.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
接下來我們請李坤臣召委質詢好謝謝主席我們請彭主委有請彭主委主委好這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
5778.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
5793.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
詐騙集團這個太子集團他洗錢45億那民眾都很關心說那政府的打詐機關在哪裡這個按照台北地檢署的資料來看的話這一次他們扣押了不動產18筆 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
5795.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
5823.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
然後銀行帳戶有60個帳戶裡面還有2億多塊2億多元合計扣押的物價高達45億表示說他洗錢至少也洗了45億剛剛我有聽到這個主委的答覆他說10月14號美國司法部的通知太子集團涉及洗錢10月15號就開始做精檢我的疑問就在這邊如果沒有美國司法部的通知的話我們不可能在10月15號做精檢是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
5824.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
5853.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那當然這個重大事件的時候我們當然會開始啟動我們現在的精檢都非常及時沒有啊那是美國司法部通知我們我們才去做精檢的我想這個是一次它這個詐騙集團涉及全世界30個國家很多國家美國通知以後我再猜他們也採取跟我們類似的動作所以說換句話說如果美國沒有通知的話我們不可能在15號做精檢這是一個假設性的問題是不是我們真的我們有沒有那至少在15號之前沒有做精檢對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
5855.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
5872.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
應該講我們過去都有做我們按照我們銀行的這些通報該通報我們都通報所以我跟你講就是說主委說有10家銀行他60個帳戶在10家銀行裡面嗎對就是我們各自不同這麼多年他從107年開始進入到台灣到現在107年那現在是114年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
5875.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
5891.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
其實他在其他國家也類似於正常的時間我不管其他國家 我就是說這件事情凸顯了蠻多的問題那我是希望說 就金管會的部分我們能夠改善的地方在哪裡因為如果今天不是說美國司法部有通知的話那我們不可能是15號去做金錢嘛那你說有60個帳戶在10家銀行裡面那我剛剛又聽說 主委說認為說大額的通報都沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
5897.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
5913.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
都沒有問題嗎不是 應該這樣講我們現在按照我們現在洗錢的規定銀行該做的事比如他覺得異常就通報這件事情我們有請檢察局這是第一個對啊 所以這家十家銀行都沒有覺得有問題所以都沒有通報嘛是不是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
5913.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
5934.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
都有通報只是通報以後的結果因為綜合比對這個反洗錢這個是一個非常複雜不是只有金管會不會提供這個訊息對我知道等於說他會集中到一個地方去做判斷我想這部分好那我來釐清一些問題好了在這一個打炸的這一個分工的任務裡面的話金管會是負責主炸嗎我們是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
5935.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
5961.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
主要是主詐因為有很多嘛市詐 賭詐 主詐已經犯罪了以後他的金流進來這邊以後我們把它辨識出來把它做一些管控或是配合檢警調去鎖控就是說負責這個張款的流項面就對了要把它組起來就對了就是如果我們在我們可以知道的情況之下進行這樣的阻止跟增加成本那我就問民眾他們所關心的或是所反映的一些問題就是說這個詐騙集團騙了一些錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
5963.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
5983.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
然後拿了30幾億現金去買11戶的豪宅然後銀行也不覺得奇怪建商也不覺得奇怪然後大家就質疑說金管會的AML房子洗錢的能力有問題就是說他30幾億的現金進來豪宅市場買了11戶的豪宅48個車位26台豪車60個銀行帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
5989.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
6011.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
沒有人覺得奇怪 主委你們會不會覺得很奇怪這句話稍微停一下銀行確實覺得很奇怪他們在過去這麼多年來銀行覺得有奇怪對 它按照我們的規定陸續的通報了非常非常多次那這個就有問題啦如果銀行覺得有奇怪的話那為什麼一直都沒有發現回去做了解那一直要等到10月15號才去做監檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
6013.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
6027.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
跟我們報告因為他整個部分整個犯罪集團他本身他在銀行銀行會根據他的規定覺得比如說我是這個大額異常我就會通報通報以後有通報有通報我們都一個個去查你們通報之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
6028.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
6048.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
對 那就是我們下一關的要來處理你現在講的是我是講說15號之前的事情嗎對 從107年開始108年就開始都有通報都有通報 對那接下來呢通報都沒有發現說哪裡有問題所以讓他們一直繼續洗錢下去嗎就是要由執法機關來判斷是不是要採取這個動作好 那所以是哪個單位的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
6052.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
6078.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
哪個單位的問題我們總是要了解問題嘛如果說金管會這部分沒有問題的話你不是說銀行有發現有大額的這個不尋常的交易那也通報了那通報之後咧那個國家洗房的機制最主要有三個單位一個是金融機構他報情資給那個調查局之後那調查局他會做分析運用他會分送相關的資料給執法機關那執法機關再採取進一步相關的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
6079.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
6099.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
所以調查局然後接下來呢他就會分送給相關的執法機關比方說像刑事檢查局或者是檢調單位等等所以你們這些情志都給調查局我們跟這10家銀行了解從108年開始金融機構都有依照規定去做大額申報跟可以洗錢的申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
6100.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
6123.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
所以我在說108年之後發現說這些大筆交易的金額有問題就對了在他們的風險辨識裡面他們都有辨識出來然後都有依照他們應該要詢問的那有幾筆啊 總共有幾筆啊我們目前掌握到的訊息是從108年之後金融機構有做了有52次的相關的申報的動作然後你們把情資給調查局了然後調查局沒有任何的動作嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
6124.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
6147.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
這個是整個國家洗房體系那我們國家整個洗房體系有問題我想應該不太可以這樣我意思是說藉由太子集團這件事情來凸顯說我們的問題在哪裡那後續要怎麼去改進如果說銀行有通報如果說銀行沒有通報那銀行的問題那銀行有通報那你們也把相關的情勢也給洗房中心然後接下來就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
6148.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
6169.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
是這樣子嗎不是 剛剛那個同事講過了他是一個比如說我們這邊是第一個接觸點我們自己有一套覺得這個是跟平常不一樣我們就會通報通報以後假如他覺得需要他就會分分給其他具有查核的不是啊 那我覺得這樣問題很大啊就是說你們第一線已經有發現有問題了不是 就是其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
6170.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
6188.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
跟我講就觸發警報並不代表說一定有問題當然我知道那後續咧如果今天不是說美國來通知我們要查的話那他們可能繼續再寫下去沒有就是說其實犯罪跟犯罪偵訪我不是專家但我也可以能想像一件事情就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
6189.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
6216.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
今天來講不是有犯罪的預防機制就不會有犯罪但是每一次的犯罪成功都是給我們很好的機會所以我剛才講要解決問題一定要先確認問題的存在所以我現在要確認問題在哪裡是在金管會那還是說在其他的單位我覺得大家都要檢討這件事情只是說大家都要檢討這件事情我們第一步就像我們在內部講這整個民眾對於政府的這個打詐的這個機制會產生一個很大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
6217.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
6219.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
因为这个金额太庞大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
6219.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
6247.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
他去買豪宅買車位然後有60個銀行帳戶然後錢這樣進進出出然後大家就覺得沒有問題還是說你們覺得已經有問題了然後呢通報上去了然後就沒有了其實委員其實我們就有倒推法的話是很容易感覺這怎麼會這麼做但是銀行每天他面對了這麼多的交易他只是覺得有異常的匯總過去我們後面的專業單位會按照各種情資來判斷我該不該採取行動我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
6248.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
6268.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
這個犯罪集團他不斷的更新那我問主委好了那這次太子集團這個有學到什麼教訓嗎就金管會的部分我想第一個我們現在內部是講ABCA的話就是我現在的規定你們好好做B的話有沒有落實做C的話有沒有什麼方法可以來解決剛剛那個問題那ABC大家都知道啊那個問題就發生了啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
6270.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
6288.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
對啊 所以說我們另一次說這個部分牽涉到的其實我們就要跨部會所以我們跟高檢署就開始密切的去討論這件事應該怎麼處理我覺得這問題很大因為你如果今天不是美國他要求我們去做調查我也不會有15號的精檢那也不會有這個地檢署調查局接下來的後續的動作那表示說從107年到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
6291.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
6314.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
七八年的時間我們沒有採取任何的動作但你們已經發現說已經有問題了那個所謂發現就是它觸發了我們對那觸發之後你們把這些我們把這些訊息資訊也報上去了然後結果呢就沒有了啊這才是問題所在啊對這就是民眾會質疑的地方啊其實誠如很多外界講就是說一個問題的發生其實我們就是一個很好的機會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
6315.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
6333.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
沒有啦 因為這個問題太嚴重了你一個太子集團洗了45億然後政府整個打砸了機關就渾然不知也不是啦就是說我跟委員講說我們其實各自有各自在做這些內容那至少我先問說金管會有沒有善盡到責任啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
6334.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
6360.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
我剛跟委員報告了就是我們在負責的是監控這些異常交易的通報的部分在我們的查核裡面我們發育銀行都有做到都有做到所以金管會這部分阻擋沒有問題就對了再來其實剛剛也有委員講這問題不是那麼簡單所以我剛講ABC你有做的有沒有做確實ABC都沒有做這才是民眾在質疑政府的地方剛剛講委員講的時候大家不會去管說這個是屬於金管會的這個是屬於調查局的這是屬於誰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
6363.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
6391.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
這整個是對政府的一個打了一個大問號我們也沒有這個意思我只跟委員講你問我的話就是說我們現在就我們儘管會去了解銀行的金流的時候我覺得第一個有沒有做通報該做最基本的A你有沒有做到接下來你的EDD有沒有做到確實這還要花時間再去了解我們要找出那個漏洞看看以後我們可以再通報可以再做什麼樣的一個提供給其他單位把標準把它弄得更聰明我的問題就在於說發生這麼大的事情如果不是美國司法部通知的話我們不會有後續的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
6392.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
6396.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
這個其實是個假設的問題不是啊 這是事實啊14號之前你們有去做經檢嗎就是說這是事實啊 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
6402.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
6426.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
我想說這是一個我們整個的國家機器很大的部分我只能回答我這一部分所以這個就是整個國家機制人家打砸機制人家會懷疑有問題的地方就在這邊金管會有回報了你說你有回報了那就回報上去之後DRH接下來我不知道怎麼樣我覺得這個可以繼續再追因為沒有那麼簡單但是利用這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
6427.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
6441.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
這次詐騙洗錢的事件我認為我們有很多的洗房機制要做檢討現在大家都知道了你就是去買豪宅去買車位然後把錢洗白洗乾淨了沒有任何的問題你看幾乎每一次詐騙集團查到了都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
6446.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
6471.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
民宅豪宅然後民車大概就這樣你就知道說他們把這些錢就寫成這樣子了然後我們拿他一點沒有辦法每次新聞報出來就是說這詐騙集團都是開民車然後住豪宅這就是打我們的臉不過我想這個部分確實我剛才講像委員講說我們有防範的機制沒辦法確保但每一個東西我們都要虛心檢討把我們的制度把它做得更好希望不要有下一次這個問題很大再繼續再研究謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
6475.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
6479.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好 謝謝昭偉 謝謝主委接下來有請林委員 施銘 質詢好 謝謝昭偉請那個主委我們請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
6508.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
6525.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
委員長主委早 早主委有關於虛擬資產服務法草案中對於穩定幣都是關於發行端的規定但是未來末端的消費交易使用才是穩定幣應用普及以及流通性的關鍵所以我要請問主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
6526.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
6556.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
是否支持未來讓穩定幣成為日常消費使用的交易貨幣形態之一我想剛委員講的沒有錯穩定幣要能夠順利的發展它的應用場景要存在所以剛才講說應用場景裡面大家現在在提到的有幾個應用場景一個就是日常的支付再來第二個就是可能跨境的所以現在我們金管會的政策就是穩定幣成為日常消費使用交易貨幣的形態是你現在要去極力去發展的 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
6556.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
6581.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
沒有 現在沒有我現在應該這樣講說我們現在是針對穩定幣的發行面進行規範場景的部分呢它要去形成一個生態圈我剛剛跟我講過支付在國外是一個它使用的場景第二個就是跨國交易的匯兌是一個再來就是虛擬資產的交易是另外一個至少我們看到了這個三個場景那比如說我們為什麼放在虛擬資產交易服務法裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
6581.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
6603.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那個虛擬資產扶法裡面就是因為這個我都了解了其實我想進一步就問你就是說因為我們最重要的還是末端的消費教育使用所以對於這個穩定幣末端消費使用的管控我們是不是會有進一步的規定那當然一定會去營造穩定的使用環境是 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
6603.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
6631.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那我們看到現在我們非常普遍的各種的電子支付工具像是LiPay Apple Pay或者接口支付或者一些消費通路商自行發行的電子支付已經非常普遍了所以主委你未來是否有規劃讓穩定幣與這些電子支付或者信用卡的結合穩定幣會跟這些支付工具結合以推廣穩定幣的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
6631.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
6641.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
這其實勢必假設穩定開放以後市場就會去尋求他使用的場景我覺得就剛才講過這會是一個支付有可能都會去做規劃嗎你要去規劃不能說有可能我剛剛委員講過就是會一定會觸及到這個問題的規範謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
6649.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
6667.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
另外我們看到央行總裁楊總裁他在10月14號表示台灣當然有發行穩定幣的空間但是要由金融機構來發行但是我們金管會提出的《虛擬資產服務法》的草案中對於穩定幣發行人的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
6669.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
6682.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
是穩定幣發行人應設置與維持足額的資產準備準備資產儲存於境內的金融機構也就是並沒有限制發行人必須為金融機構所以這個發行人的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
6686.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
6704.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
你是否是跟央行的意見一樣因為央行講說是要由金融機構來發行嗎沒有 總裁講的是說我們可能第一階段我們大家的共識因為未來穩定幣的發行是必須要由央行跟金管會共管那我們這裡面因為我們這個法的架構我們會預留未來的彈性我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
6705.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
6731.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
按照參考MICA就歐盟他們的規定是他沒有限定那個只有金融機構但是我們剛開始的時候我們已經先開始講說基於穩健安全我們先會優先讓金融機構來發行是所以還是以目前的規劃對就是這個央行跟我們講是我們第一步是這樣因為你沒限制你現在提供的版本沒有限制母法上面未來假設通過是沒有但是就是說我們會分階段的來做這件事情分階段來做對其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
6733.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
6757.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
主委我是贊成你的意見我想我們為了節省我們台商遵轉的行費與降低匯率的一個價差損應該就是落實讓本國的金融機構來做一個虛擬貨幣交易平台的這樣的業務讓我們境外的台商可以透過我們熟悉的本國銀行進行穩定幣的交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
6758.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
6778.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
好 接下來這個我們回到剛才這個集會委員關心的太子集團的詐騙案所以我們依據媒體的報導關於太子集團在台涉及洗錢的案子其中這個集團以8家的空殼公司購買了和平大院共11戶48個停車會10家登錄是高達38億1650萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
6785.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
6801.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
就是我們現在PPT所呈現的我們看到這11戶的返產編號1到7都是5家空殼公司同一位零信負責人出面以現金購買購買時間是在108年的4月到12月總金額高達新台幣24億9千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
6810.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
6831.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
所以主委這五家空殼公司都是以現金購買他的資金來源橋外資金是橋外資金所以這個20億的資金來源啊儘管會銀行局對這些橋外資金的來源是否有異樣難道都沒有去監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
6831.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
6852.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
有 剛剛已經跟委員有做過很明確的說明這裡面其實不全然是他的現金裡面有部分是用借款而來剛剛講的金額是借款而來其中有一部分總額大約三十幾億因為剛剛委員講是實價登錄對 實價登錄的金額像比如我們就有針對這去理解我先講一到七是現金購買的 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
6858.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
6879.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
当然去买房子最后的话一定是用现金去买交给建商那些现金只是说它的来源是自有资金还是从银行贷款而来我先一条一条跟你问这编号1到7的都是现金购买五家空壳公司买的所以这几家是现金是高达24亿9千多万 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
6880.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
6898.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
金額這麼龐大但是直接付給建設公司還是說用匯款的還是說是用虛擬貨幣支付金管會有沒有掌握當時有沒有掌握匯款都有金流他用很多是銀行支票去付的因為這個都有透過銀行的帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
6899.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
6910.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
透過這個支票他來自橋外資金啊橋外資的時候我們有去徵提說你有沒有得到政府的許可他們都也提出了這樣的一個所以你當時察覺沒有異樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
6911.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
6935.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
不是沒有異樣我剛才講過就是說其實我們所謂異樣這件事情我們有有一套自己的洗房的這些的觸發的機制的通報所以STR這個異常交易的通報其實主委現在你一直強調你們當時認為說這些資金二十幾億你們當時有去調查有去調查你現在強調有去調查嗎就是當時我們現在去看銀行有沒有也認為沒有異樣嗎你們當時認為沒有異樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
6938.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
6957.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
所以就讓他從橋外資金就進來然後去匯給這個建設公司因為現金嘛現金這麼龐大啊你是這個橋外資金進來到底是怎麼樣付給建設公司他的金流的整個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
6958.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
6966.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
不是 我想說這個剛剛 你剛才說你有查因為剛才我這樣我有時間你說你有查但是我只想問你經過這幾年事後的驗證 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
6971.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
7000.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這些錢都是詐騙而來的錢都是有問題的錢現在金管會你告訴我們當時都是合法的金管會當時是睡著了嗎如果你要仔細聽我講的話應該不是這樣講就是說那是我們本來銀行本身他就賦予一個必須要去偵測這筆錢異常要通報的業務通報以後我們整個國家機器會來判斷這件事情是不是該進一步的去做犯罪偵房的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
7000.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
7021.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
我想我們剛才講就是說因為發生這個事情以後呢我們的檢察局就直接進入到銀行去調他過去歷史上你每一筆這些交易是否做到剛才講的他們看到他們都有按照這個規定去做通報那是我想這部分銀行都有通報對就是在過去剛剛局長也提到就他們掌握的話至少通報了五十幾次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
7023.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
7041.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
所以這部分來看的話就是說這整個機器是不是能夠完整的去擋下這個東西我覺得問題發生了確實要虛心的檢討但是我剛才講說事後我們要解決問題一定要先了解問題發生在哪裡所以我們剛才就至少我們經理的部分我們就進去好好去了解過去有沒有什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
7042.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
7071.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
你現在確實是要虛心檢討因為當時你也不是金管會的主委你現在當然去追究當時為什麼查不出這些錢是有問題的透過買房來洗錢所以當時我們是認為金管會真的不要推卸責任我沒有 你是延續的你現在雖然當時你不是主委但是當時怎麼會查不出來你虛心檢討的結果到底會是怎樣是你們有失職嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
7073.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
7098.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這個現在這麼大的一個金額人家告訴我說都沒有問題結果事後驗證問題一大堆就是不是這個意思我剛才講過就是說我們想知道銀行在做這個生意有沒有他沒有按照我們的規定來做這是一個那規定做到了還是發生這個事情的時候這個案子就告訴我們必須要來好好的調整現在進入檢調的偵查階段我想你們自己內部也是要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
7099.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
7105.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
當然 所以說我們現在已經全面在做包括剛才講比如說購屋的金流這部分我們都在想想看什麼方法對 我一條一條來跟你討論我們剛才講的是編號1到7我們再看編號8到11 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
7112.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
7121.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我們再看到它是利用8到11它是利用4家空殼公司跟元大銀行借貸了8億7600萬購買這4戶房產這4家空殼公司其中編號80 11這3戶各貸到跟元大銀行貸到了2億1600萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
7134.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
7157.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這個是跟銀行貸款不是現金支付的那這三家空殼公司的資本額只有310萬我就想問這銀行到底是如何的去這個他是用那個存單去值借啦去販貸啊竟然准他貸到各自貸到2億多後來我們去了解他是用存單值借那家公司有匯入 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
7158.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
7178.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
存款 他用存款做直接的結貸那存款的來源在哪裡就像我們拿個存單去直接是一樣的概念那他的存款來自何處呢就是剛才講境外的錢也是境外的錢對 就剛才講透過橋外進來所以你不覺得這很奇怪嗎我們覺得奇怪 你有境外的存單你就直接現金買我們銀行就覺得奇怪就通報了所以這是不是就涉及洗錢了但是這個時間是發生在109年5月到109年10月 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
7184.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
7204.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以主委這是很奇怪的資本額只有310萬可以告到這麼多的資金不是他剛才是用存單直接不是用信用直接我想還是不一樣的啦我再強調這筆錢他在113年這6億多這些貸款就還清了所以這很明顯的就是藉由買房子來洗錢嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
7205.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
7226.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
所以金管會你們難道都不用負相關的責任嗎這個獅子很大你們不要一直跟我講說當時都有通報銀行都有通報當時我們稽查當時都沒有問題但是明顯現在結果結果論來看整個過程都有問題太多異樣了結果金管會查不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
7228.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
7240.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這不是打詐不利嗎我們正在了解當中所以這整個金流這麼多年這麼複雜我們要去了解這個弊端我還是期許你你真的要去進去去查我們並沒有卸責我只是跟你們報告我們現在的狀況這樣如果不是美國做相關的通報到現在我們都被蒙在鼓裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
7250.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
7265.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
我們都沒有進一步的去查這個集團有大問題他資金那麼兇而且都是橋外資金結果我們竟然毫無知覺讓他這樣子其實我一直講毫無知覺真的不是這樣有知覺啦有知覺就不應該讓這個事情發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
7268.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
7286.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
好不好所以我們最後就是希望金管會應該就這個事情你要盡快完成所有的調查我們現在已經在檢討金流管控上後有什麼問題該扣的錢就給他扣下來都是不法所得好不好以上 謝謝謝謝你聲明召委那我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
7310.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
7310.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
7642.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
7645.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好 我們現在要開始繼續開會囉好 那我們下一位請王世堅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
7676.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
7702.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
謝謝主席我請金管會彭主委好 請彭主委喂好彭主委好今天在這一年半來我們在立法院的相處我對你的質詢方面我想今天是最困難講的一個議題就是關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
7704.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
7730.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我們金管會管轄的銀行局管轄的這37家公民銀行他們最近針對詐騙的部分他們很多都去設了AI的設備那麼就來針對警示戶的部分去強化那這其實在大方向是對的因為這幾年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
7732.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
7747.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
我們整個國家我們台灣受到詐騙可以說影響到幾乎我們全民身物痛極那受害的戶跟金額都這麼龐大 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
7749.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
7764.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我看了這個詐騙儀表板雖然我們在我就以這兩年來每一天4億元曾經降到一天大概2億、1億8左右現在啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
7765.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
7783.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
現在又回升了又大概在3億5到4億左右所以平均一年等於高達1000億以上那這個金額是龐大到幾乎幾乎是我們這個社會已經無法容忍那但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
7785.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
7807.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
針對這個銀行的部分我們希望說他能夠加強對警事戶那管理不要讓這些詐騙藉由銀行資金去流通這個方向是對的可是在執行了這一年以來那麼尤其銀行引入AI |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
7808.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
7835.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那來對於警示戶來提前警示那現在有出了一些狀況比方說某大銀行他自己聲稱說他引進這個AI以後他們大量的就排除了很多他們列為警示戶但是他自己宣稱他這樣子他的AI模型準確率 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
7837.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
7865.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
他認為高達50%欸 主委高達50%但是相對他的誤差率也有50%啊天啊 那被他錯殺的戶頭非常痛苦幾乎跟受詐騙的民眾一樣跟受害民眾一樣也是痛不欲生啊比方說這樣子對老人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
7867.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
7889.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
對於經濟弱勢者對於小兒存款戶對於零工經濟對於身障者對他們都生活上還有學生族群對他們都造成很大的影響所以這一個部分我認為我們應該要做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
7893.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
7917.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
檢討了啦因為現在對AI帳戶的警示他們是說半年或者一年以上沒有交易或者戶頭裡面沒有達到銀行公告的應該要有的存款餘額這是小額的那銀行就認為這個有風險就把它剔除還有就是說如果你單日裡面交易比數多的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
7919.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
7934.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這一些是他們的標準但是但是主委難道小兒存款戶他就沒有開戶的權利嗎他就沒有使用金融服務的權利嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
7936.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
7959.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
所以我具體建議你們要針對現在已經高達我舉例喔我們在2022年的時候警示帳戶是6萬6千戶到今年年初這是根據我們金管會銀行局的報告裡面說到今年1月警示戶已經突破15萬戶但是但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
7964.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
7990.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
各種調查機構還有包括網路上做的一些調查大家估計啊其實這個無端捲入受害的民眾他戶頭被凍結戶頭被排除不能使用的高達200萬戶這是民間的評估那以我們民意代表街道的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
7991.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
8013.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
接到的說這個戶頭他被凍結他是無辜的要去解凍的以我們接到的每天接到的量數來看我在想如果沒有達到200萬戶以上那至少數字是遠高於我們金管會所估計的15萬戶那我認為這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
8015.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
8041.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我跟他們說如果第一點要區分第一點如果是檢警調他們通報要警示這個絕對沒第二句話這個我們就依法依規那這個要等檢調去查這個可營資金來源再去解除但是第二點對於我們銀行自己管理尤其透過 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
8043.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
8059.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
失誤率高達50%高達50%的誤判的這樣子的AI來警示的部分我們應該要區分啊要區分說這個高中低的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
8060.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
8077.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
金額越小越低嘛還有是不是針對銀行自己過濾以後要去排除的要去做為警示戶的是不是比方說他要做到說第一個他要用簡訊通知這個戶頭啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
8080.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
8096.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
這位開戶人說我已經把你列為情侍了因為你達到我們銀行說的那幾項第二點 是不是在他交易之前交易的時候就要告知比方說有南部父母親 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
8099.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
8123.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
匯錢到北部小孩在北部讀書啊每個月匯5000塊生活費你不要等到匯進來的他要用的時候才發現說原來他也被列為省事務為什麼因為他小兒嘛他沒有達到銀行所謂的存款餘額沒有達到他們的標準那 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
8126.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
8141.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
錢匯進來才知道不能用這些都是銀行其實可以做到的他們能不能做到會不會去做就在乎我們金管會要不要對他們要求啦你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
8142.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
8157.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我想剛才委員提到很多是非常非常好的建議就是我們現在也在做的第一個可能民眾搞不清楚這是到底是因為有人報案的警示帳戶還是銀行自己卡控我們會來做一個區分那再來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
8158.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
8186.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
那個準確率不高這件事情一定要改善因為否則的話這個我們的美意就剛好打折扣所以我的意思是說這部分我覺得該委員用分級分區然後通知事前比如說事後通知還有加速假設真的是比如說去解控要盡量的加快速度這個如果沒有問題的話當然精準是最重要的如果說精準做不到我想這些很多問題根源都來自於這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
8187.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
8213.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
你剛講到這個很好 你說加速解控的部分好不容易 銀行局要求之下那這些銀行有去設他們還設這個叫24小時專線說你要是無辜被控 被列為情愫你可以用電話來解控可是 這樣子的服務我四個字形容形同虛設 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
8215.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
8230.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
因為電話去談一談以後他結論還是要開戶者說你要到銀行來臨櫃辦理臨櫃辦理就算了有的還要求說你要到原開戶銀行天啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
8234.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
8256.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
這些對於就我剛剛講的老人家 生長子 還有學生族群甚至商班族群他也非常的困擾就對了那有很多實質的例子啦比方說打零工維生的就光我這邊辦公室接貨的打零工維生的他的戶口金額不大啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
8257.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
8271.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
但是有時候他會零星去存入幾筆存入都很小他一天打零工收一千八兩千塊他這樣子去存入這何錯之有這種也被控管也包括就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
8274.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
8284.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
小兒金額多了以後那銀行就說我要看你的金流對這個金流要提出解釋我請問詐騙都那麼龐大的金額我們每一天2億5到4億被詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
8291.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
8311.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
有辦法分成那麼小筆嗎那要幾千個戶頭幾萬個戶頭才有辦法達成的所以偏偏去找這些小金額的麻煩這剛老師銀行啊藉由這一次大家對詐騙的厭惡結果讓他們去排除掉銀行厭惡的小額帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
8315.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
8328.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
不是這樣嗎他覺得小額帳戶他管理麻煩他管理成本高啊所以主委我提醒這一句話不要變成黑臉的偷吃白臉的抵帳我們台灣話講的這是不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
8336.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
8344.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們要幫警方檢警調一起防詐打詐防止這些金融的交流這是對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
8346.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
8368.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
但是要對真正詐騙者所以這個部分我希望你們對於銀行對各銀行尤其現在有這些烏龍AI在幫助的這些銀行我希望你們能夠對他們加強查查跟管理好不好會謝謝委員的那個指教謝謝謝謝王委員接下來我們請閻寬恆委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
8385.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
8391.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
主席各位委員同事各位列席官員大家好主席有請金管會彭主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
8395.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
8415.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
主委好請教主委上個星期衛福部宣布將調整補充保費將利息 股利 租金等補充保費從現行的每月結算改採年度計算一年累計逾2萬就要收取此外還有單筆扣繳上限1000萬提高到5000萬高額獎金 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
8419.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
8444.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
扣費門檻調整為最低工資4倍那社保師估計影響高達480萬人那高額這個最快就是116年就要上路結果這個一公佈7個小時就髮夾彎大轉彎行政院長也丟包啦就這個收回這個政策那衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
8445.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
8464.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
竟然說他們沒有告知金管會這麼重大的一個政策理由是說他們認為這個台灣股市不錯他們認為不會影響到影響到太多所以他們只是請教這個財務專家而已但是主委身為中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
8468.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
8478.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
掌管所有投資人相關事務的金管會竟然沒有被告知要修這個法是衛福部自己的主意自己的想法還是後面是什麼樣的打算 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
8482.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
8506.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
沒有告知我們金管會是衛福部故意這麼做還是不把我們金管會放在眼裡請主委說明一下當然不是我想石部長他在要改革健保制度那我覺得他確實也是承擔了很大很大的責任因為他自己主政我能體會而且他也解釋了就是說這個過程實際上還在討論中 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
8508.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
8533.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
所以這個沒有跟我們溝通也不是說最後的定案我想我剛才提到委員就是說我們是資本市場的監理者我們捍衛是整個市場的公平性跟透明度我想這部分的話我們會把我們對於這件事情的專業的影響跟可能的項目會是什麼會跟衛福部做充分的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
8535.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
8554.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
完全沒有跟金管會來做橫向的溝通對不對 那就都要公佈結果七個小時就馬上收回成命這樣子真的是太不應該了那我想金管會一定要積極的捍衛投資人的權益更重要的就是要主動去這樣子做一些部會的溝通不然他們說財務專家是什麼專家 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
8557.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
8575.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
是未到來的何方神聖大家說來者好行所以讓民眾無法接受所以說這個部分再請主委多注意好不好是再請教主委普惠金融的核心精神是金融服務不該是少數人的特權 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
8576.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
8601.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
對 應該普惠於全民是的 應該是以合理成本安全便捷的取得基本金融服務但實際上我們這些銀髮族就是長者族群或者是偏鄉的這些地區居民他們面臨到許多障礙比如說像部分的老年人口他們連手機都可能還是傳統的那種這種翻蓋 掀蓋型的手機 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
8603.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
8626.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
可能也不知道要怎麼樣去提款卡去提款機領錢還要借助子女的幫忙那如果假設子女因為工作會不在身邊那他就可能就沒有辦法去操作那更何況是現在很多複雜的數位賬戶啦還有這些行動支付金融工具對長者來說是更加的困難所以對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
8627.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
8643.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
數位帳戶的管理跟操作他們特別感到陌生使他們在使用這些金融服務的時候會產生抗拒所以說我想很容易因為這樣子的關係所以他對這些金融資訊就沒辦法掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
8643.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
8671.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那很容易就會變成詐騙集團的對象然後趁虛而入那所以我看尤其是我看了一下我們在地方我們這些社區的社區大學他們一些課程完全沒有跟金融教育相關的課程所以我在這邊就是說想要建立金管會就是說針對我們這些有心想要學習金融相關知識的長者社區的長者因為沒有管道嘛那可不可以我們新闢一個管道就是說跟我們地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
8673.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
8701.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
來或者是社區大學來研究開闢有關於這種高齡者金融安全的課程可不可以主委這是一個很好的建議就是說其實我們過去也有跟地方政府做合作只是說剛剛委員提到社區大學常態性的去做這些課程我想這個可能是讓我們在地鄉親能夠更便利的去參與我想這個很謝謝委員的建議我會請我們的相關單位在做金融知識推廣的時候把這個納入考慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
8701.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
8721.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
好的再請主委一定要把放心心放在這個地方再來我再請教因為時間有限我認為說我國的普惠金融方面還有很多挑戰根據經濟部發布的2024年中小企業白筆書我國中小企業加速在2023年突破了167.4萬創歷史新高佔全體企業達98%以上就業人口數916萬7千人佔全體就業人口數近八成 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
8733.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
8744.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
銷售金額超過28兆佔整體企業銷售額比重五成以上可以說我們台灣的護國神山就是我們這些中小企業中小企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
8749.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
8774.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
經濟市場非常的重要但是我們中小企業取得資金的成本相較於一般自然人還有這些大型企業比較高高出很多那大型企業跟中小企業的這個資他們之間的這種資金濃通的管道落差很大但是中小企業扮演著非常重要的角色所以我認為說金管會應該更重視中小企業這個籌措力薄弱的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
8775.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
8782.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
對於中小企業未來能夠有效受惠的方法跟政策主委你有什麼樣的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
8783.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
8807.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
其實中小企業的融資還有這些的資助一直都是金融監理政策很重要的一環剛剛早上也有其他委員提到因為我們大部分的金融機構都是盈利機構居多所以他當然會如果說沒有做任何的這些的輔助跟管制的情況之下他們都會很正常的會主要以容易做獲利高的這個作為一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
8808.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
8833.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
那個主要對象但是剛才委員提到沒有錯中小企業是我們整個企業的骨幹我有跟委員報告就是說我們過去金管會在過去20年來每年都推出計畫去促進金融業鼓勵金融業去加大對這個中小企業的支持剛好早上委員提到就是20年前我們大概這個比重大概是35對65就是對中小企業的放款大概占35對非中小企業大概占65現在20年後這次翻轉過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
8835.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
8855.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
就是我們的銀行的放款裡面對中小企業的放款的比重是提高到了大概六成多對其他的反而是到三四成這個是一個好的現象但是實際上中小企業差距很大我們也知道有些困難的很困難所以才會有一些像信保機制或很多東西的方式我們來支持這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
8856.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
8867.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
好 主委我們一起來努力好不好是 一定的台灣的中產企業來給他們最大的一個鼓勵跟一些實質有效的政策好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝嚴委員接下來我們請羅明才委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
8883.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
8905.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
主席各位出列習慣人大家好主席可不可以請彭主委好請彭主委喂好彭主委你那個看起來形象不錯那個詐騙也拿你的照片去詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
8907.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
8934.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
現在好像曾經有過但是沒有最近沒有看到那他用你的照片去詐騙他詐了多少錢這我當然不知道我的照片可能沒有什麼吸引力啦現在就是很離譜啊有一些什麼高官行政院長或者是立委也有全部這個社會已經改變了隨時他拿到照片然後就詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
8936.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
8960.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
現在台灣平均一天 大概詐騙的金額是多少其實起起伏伏啦 就是剛剛委員提到我的觀察在兩億上下兩億 少的時候兩億 有時候多的時候四億這讓人家覺得膽戰心驚現在搞到全民防詐 小心 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
8961.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
8975.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
詐騙就在你身邊以前是匪諜嘛小心詐騙就在你身邊那事實上在金管會這個詐騙的這個整個藍圖裡面每一次都有金管會多數啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
8979.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
9006.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
因為詐騙案例有很多嘛用愛情的方式詐騙有用什麼大概投資就是說你可以賺很多錢投資詐騙或者買股票等等這個還蠻多的聽說佔了七成多啦對就是主要損失來自於投資詐騙那現在就是這個問題變成是國家安全的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
9007.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
9034.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
各自到處流竄然後連剛剛你也講主委的照片也到處流竄弄到最後是要信主委還是要信誰都不知道要信誰都會覺得怕怕的我們應該大力的想出一個方法來扭轉這樣的一個壞的環境主委你看每一次經過大概都是金流的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
9037.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
9064.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
你知道台積電有多少的寫城市的工程人員這我沒有缺席的數字應該很多大概7萬多人現在居然詐騙的人數已經快要直逼我們的護國神山的重要的員工這個說起來真的是相當的諷刺於是金融的這一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
9066.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
9090.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
主委有沒有什麼想法剛剛也提到很多點就是說那你不是加強嚴格的管控那問題很多人就遭池魚之殃啊有些莫名其妙的一些帳戶甚至小朋友開學要一些學雜費領個十幾萬就被銀行刁難 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
9095.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
9115.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
如同剛剛要選台北市的那個王委員他也提到他說有很多銀行就趁機就修理這些小戶修理這些弱勢最好你不要來我銀行趁機把它掃光事實上現在很多民眾去銀行開戶很難開啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
9119.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
9128.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
問東問西甚至你越小戶就是經濟弱勢的這個族群開戶銀行的基本心態就是說你最好不要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
9130.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
9149.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
主委有沒有這樣的一個狀況其實也不是因為其實上我想國際洗錢的趨勢做KYC是特別特別的重視認為新開戶我想最近都知道我們才從上次大概就知道開戶有它一定必要的程序這個大概是我想其實銀行在做這件事情的時候也是非常的兩難 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
9150.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
9173.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
第一個他本來是營利失業是要去服務客戶完成正常交易但是因為炸團太多的利用他的管道所以在這個如何取得平衡我想說這個主炸打炸我們一定不會鬆手但是方法一定會強力要求他們好好來改善這是全民的共識因為剛剛委員舉到很多的例子這些都是比如說因為這個過程當中這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
9176.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
9203.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
讓我們的民眾感覺到被干擾被阻礙這部分我們會來盡量來想辦法解決這個問題那現在被凍結的帳戶有多少其實凍結的概念就是說剛剛其實我們是沒有做這個統計但是就是說各家銀行自己在因為其實這是各家銀行自主的作為我們只是在希望他們注意他們警示帳戶的管控那各家公司根據他自己的能力來決定他要怎麼作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
9205.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
9220.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
所以這是很嚴重的問題當然打詐全民一起來支持可是剛剛所提的大概有15萬戶甚至更多的帳戶莫名其妙就被凍結了所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
9223.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
9245.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
一般的小老百姓如果突然被凍結他可能要繳學費他可能要付停車費或者是他需要一筆錢買午餐晚餐給小朋友零用錢或者是他外面欠人家的錢他必須要趕快還結果因為凍結了以後那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
9250.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
9276.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
求助無門最後這些小額需求的這些人他可能轉而走向地下錢莊我想這也是我們再三的請銀行主委你知道現在地下錢莊是誰在管地下就是他就沒有被納管才叫地下所以你管不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
9277.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
9289.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
所以一個你管不到的地方and另外的租賃公司在外面到處到處在找生意主委他生意好了不得了他就說你有沒有缺錢10萬以下免審核一通電話他大概看可以馬上就帶給你一萬的阿烏 十萬的阿烏 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
9306.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
9329.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
有些連學生都去借借了就陷入悲慘的循環主委你知道地下錢莊它的年利率多少其實它是算天的年利率多少大概你有沒有這個概念這個請委員理系%有36%也有有的超過50% |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
9334.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
9358.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我看到一個悲慘的案例就是不到一個月 借不到一百萬結果一個多月他必須已經還了一百多萬事情才解決他拿多少 他拿八十幾萬而已還了大概一百塊五十萬所以這個地下錢莊的事你管不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
9359.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
9388.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
其實確實我們現在主管是金融機構這些部分是因為可能現在的話它如果登記為一般公司那確實不是我們金管會的管轄機關那就變成是你本來以前可能這個銀行的放款業務銀行的帳戶使用非常的方便現在因為你急劇的凍結嚴格的審查很多帳戶不能用 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
9389.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
9407.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
他這些小戶不能用他只要轉向地下去了對啊 這也是我們過去一直在講說我們假設真的要針對所謂的民間帶放行為做廣泛式的納管必須要慎重的知道它的影響評估我想這也是剛剛文岳點到一個重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
9409.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
9429.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
有時候比如說納管確實是一件好事嗎不一定啦但就是說我們要看他影響要來看判斷因為畢竟市場即便你納管以後他可能更借不到這樣的一個錢那我想地下錢莊他可能有其他的法律比如他違反了重力啊這些東西其實還是有有其他的法律可以約束他 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
9431.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
9452.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
所以現在那個租賃公司你全部都可以管嗎我們現在的話9月15號開始我們是針對我們的幾家上市櫃公司及周邊的這是第一階段第二階段很快的會針對金融機構這個相關十幾家也會納管我們在應該未來很快的會把所有我們整個租賃公會下面的會員公司把他納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
9452.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
9475.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
第二階段納管的家數大概有幾家就是你所說的金融機構周邊他們都有轉投資大概十三四家左右十三四家哪十四家這我可能一下子沒辦法回答委員就是很多金控跟銀行轉投資的表面是一個正正堂堂的銀行家很正常的金融機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
9476.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
9494.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
可是他是掛羊頭賣狗肉表面都說正規真正借不到錢的時候他另外跟你講說你去找租賃公司講難聽一點這些租賃公司它利率收多少8%服務稅加一加十幾% |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
9496.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
9518.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
他等於是上下其手表面是開銀行但是把一些中間的客戶群或者下層的客戶群把他安排到他自己可以控制的租賃公司然後來吸乾 榨乾 抹淨這些小企業或是比較弱勢的企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
9521.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
9532.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
主委你知道這件事嗎我想社會很多的樣態我們按照我們現在既定的步驟我們會逐步來納管這些民眾如果遇到這樣的委屈可以跟金管會誰來伸出 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
9534.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
9561.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
如果是我們現在納管的這個可以跟我們的平益中心可以跟我們來申訴是找同局長嗎我們銀行局跟平益中心銀行局也可以 平益中心都可以另外剛講的那個凍結戶造成很多民眾的不方便20萬戶然後大家覺得很奇怪這是我們民眾的財產你說凍結就凍結可是有多少的是冤枉戶啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
9562.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
9587.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
這也是我們去年打造專法通過以後希望銀行來做這件事情我想這部分我們會守法上面我們一定會強力要求他們要精進減少誤判跟擾民銀行為刀鼠 小老百姓為魚肉主委 你能不能有一個單一窗口萬一被凍結 你查嘛你凍結 你有懷疑的趕快查 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
9588.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
9606.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
你不是啊 你要一次凍結五天 十天 半個月 一個月民眾也不曉得到底發生什麼事請問要找哪一個申訴單位真的如果說委員如果發言有比較不當的個案提供給我但是我們會要求美加銀行要成立專線24小時服務這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
9608.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
9626.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那一般凍結給人家凍結幾天沒有那個要看情況正常來講如果警示賬戶的話是要由檢警調來解控那時間不知道但是一般假設是銀行自我管控的部分他可以只要是他了解他可以應該可以馬上就做到所以你這個做要做你也請銀行單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
9628.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
9646.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
不要拿著雞毛當令箭然後傷及無辜那當然當然但是我們也希望說打造真正全民的共識那我們也背負很大很大的這樣的一個這個責任我們會努力來做好謝謝羅委員接下來請陳育臻委員謝謝主席我們請主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
9660.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
9682.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我們繼續剛兩位委員有說那個凍結戶的這個部分的確現在詐騙集團實在是太猖獗了那凍結可能是一種方法那這中間誤傷無辜的這個部分怎麼來解決這個就是現在普遍一個這個誤傷潮很嚴重所以老百姓反應很多那我們想看這個怎麼解決那當然我本席來自金門關憲是我們金門鄉親被誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
9685.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
9699.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
房子變成鎖帳所以被誤傷的部分怎麼來協助解決主要是現在金門鄉親很多戶頭被凍結很多銀行在金門他們有設分行所以我們鄉親要來這邊解鎖的話必須要專門飛一趟台灣跑到台灣來解鎖 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
9704.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
9728.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那這種這個的話這個詐騙我當然是支持說這個說這是一個方法我覺得是比較好的方法是不是說如果說哪些人曾經這個帳戶曾被使用這個使用者這個某某某人的這個帳戶那是不是他的相關帳戶除了凍結以外那當然現在等檢警掉油再做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
9728.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
9732.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
是不是讓這個有一些人可能是為了一點小利把自己的帳戶出賣給這個那是不是這樣的人就可以列入比較長久還是一段期間類似這種黑名單讓這個人不能再用那每一個要去出賣自己帳戶的人就會覺得就知道這個影響有多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
9746.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
9761.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
當然在法令的刑法部我們也必須要修改詐騙的錢不管是金額大小不要說要幾百萬才來要求很重我們也當然要求可能金額少也要求很重的圖形我們立法院法務部這邊也應該一起來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
9763.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
9779.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那現在就是說所以因為詐騙實在太猖獗變成一個產業聽說現在台灣現在黑道變很少大部分都去做詐騙這個產業衝擊這個產業收入比較高嘛還比較輕鬆也不用動刀動槍那金管會可以做的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
9780.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
9801.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
以現在物商潮來講我們想說為我們金門鄉民講說有一些銀行在金門他們有設分堂嗎是不是統一某一個時間某一段時間哪一些分堂因為做的動作是一樣的對吧只是說不同的分堂那這個派員到金門去幫我們做這個解鎖的這個動作我跟你講這個非常非常的實際確實是剛才講這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
9804.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
9823.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
我們會來想辦法來解決比如說確實不太合理比如說你真的叫一個金門鄉親為了這個東西做廢機嘛我覺得這是一個很特別就是說可能這個一定要我們會來想辦法跟銀行來很多銀行不一定都要去就是說可以一起統合一下這個應該也不是那麼困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
9823.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
9845.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
所以我覺得這是有適時的需要啦我覺得很多銀行統合某一家去然後去他可以後端他們自己聯繫不只金門啦很多離島都會有這個需求啦這個問題是不是就是弄一個單一窗口部分的時間這個方法我們會來想好你來想方法這個確實是真的是要考慮到這點因為可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
9846.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
9873.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
他們在想的時候在都會去當然很方便到處有分行但是其實很多這個請你們幫我們研究一下什麼方法減輕鄉親的這個負擔第二個講到電子支付那我們進門電子支付這個普及您有提到說也希望這個電子支付平台不是剛這個之前十月份剛成立嗎那要有一個我們國我們也應該走向這個方向你有三個期許深化友善金融政策推動普惠金融要便利普及 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
9874.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
9894.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
還要進一步將服務拓展到離島偏鄉還有地區的商圈和景點這個我也是非常支持你也知道金門離大陸比較近我們常看到的進步我們都覺得很慚愧在電子支付方面第一個要有數據支撐請問你有沒有掌握我們金門縣的電子支付使用率和普及的速率 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
9895.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
9919.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
然後在這個全國啦或者說全國各縣市的這個排名是怎麼樣在各縣市裡頭是的確是說比如說都會去台北市啊高雄市這種普及率比較高還是說我這個不知道我就要請問你們有沒有對這些數據有掌握因為抱歉剛剛局長跟我說現在我們沒有這樣的一個數字有嗎沒有那你要這個是基本的嘛你如果沒有這樣東西你到底要怎麼去推 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
9920.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
9946.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我們接下來可能因為工會成立了我覺得這是一個很好我想這個東西是不是做一個進一步開始做這方面的這個統計那我關心的是金門我本來想問你說金門在全國各縣市的電子支付的普及力和使用力是怎麼樣但你們連基本的數據都沒有你要怎麼去推這個所以你們可能要花一點看你要折成哪一個機關去推哪個機關呢對就是工會剛剛已經成立了那是工會是民間嘛那政府要其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
9946.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
9963.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
或言信院金融言信院或什麼單位要去做這樣相關的這個對就是說我們金融監理數據的掌握絕對是最基本的這一點謝謝委員的指教我們會來趕快去看怎麼做好不好趕快怎麼做因為你要往前走當然主委的宣示很好但是沒有行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
9964.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
9983.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
連基本數據都沒有你就不知道各個地方要怎麼推我關心的是金門部分我來提一下金門的部分我們去年提到金門金管會我們到金門去考察的時候我有說這個兩岸因為金門很多觀光客現在入客蠻多的有提到說這個兩岸的支付習慣不一樣電子支付的程序也不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
9983.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
10002.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那銀行局就是相關單位要思考說在小三通港口對不對我上次好像也有提過透過電子支付業者設窗口或其他對接讓兩岸旅客在旅遊方面的付款上面更便利啦你們有沒有相關的研究後續啦我們去年考察以後我不是請你們去做相關的研究嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
10005.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
10023.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
沒有沒關係我把我的金門的期待說出來你們後面去做出來給我們另外一個就是也有人提議過我在金門日報社群有看到金夏這個是財政部金融研訓院有做過也許你們去跟他請教一下金夏如果能實行跨境支付款數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
10025.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
10054.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
資產兼理沙盒就可以為兩岸的旅遊和零售業帶來巨大便利那旅客搭船車門到金門或金門到廈門就不用很繁瑣的換匯只要綁定一個區域穩定幣的數位錢包就可以完成購物啊住宿的支付那金融機構透過這個區塊鏈來做清算形成這個安全透明可追蹤的交易系統你們可不可以請做這方面的研究我剛所提到的這兩點應該應該都是一個可行的方向也可以促進電子支付還有這種跨境支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
10054.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
10076.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我想為這個我們整個國人研議一些可行的方法我們都可以來思考是但是因為金門地方比較小離大陸又近那也算一個區域可以做一個研究的部分就是說一個很多事情比如說以前山通小山通在金門是先市先行很多基本算是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
10077.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
10091.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
相對封閉又好實驗的地方我想在電子資助方面因為人數又少所以在金門縣試行推這個東西也可以作為你們未來這些一些經驗的參考研究評估我們絕對是是不是去研究評估哪個 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
10092.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
10111.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
請哪個單位做研究評估我也可以提出參考研訓院有做過這樣的相關資訊你們可以在那個基礎上繼續研究什麼時候你可以給我這些答案就是一個就是讓鄉親不用再奔波跑來開防詐銀行的帳戶我想我回去瞭解一下剛剛委員的建議還有說我們有什麼其他更好的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
10112.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
10136.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我會盡快可能可能我三天之內給委員一個一個方向看你到底打算什麼時候怎麼做這個第一點第二點那個有關電子支付這個跨境啊這個監理沙盒什麼各部分這個研究什麼時候可以給我呢要開始做啦不要因為你要數據嘛這些都要有了這個可能我們稍微評估一下並回覆給委員因為這部分那多久要給我這個答案呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
10137.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
10157.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
就是說我說三天後把這些答案都先給我你答案怎麼做就好把那個把它實成的大概要多久跟委員對後續我們再來追蹤這個部分然後我們再來講這個講到這個我們基本地區這個需求以後我們來講這個詐騙詐騙這個猖獗太子集團什麼這些我知道各個部會都跨部會在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
10159.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
10176.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
開會但是我覺得金管會可能也還要負起再更大的承擔更大的責任不然他們這樣子這麼多錢進來去買這些不管是豪宅、豪車或者讓社會大眾都非常不能接受第一個詐騙實在是太猖獗了然後在這一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
10179.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
10189.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這種剝奪感太重然後又覺得我們的政府那當然有的不是你們責任比如說我們看到說我們看到說這個法院給他這個交保15萬、5萬花詐騙這麼多錢這個這個這麼少的交保錢這樣不是你們的問題今天因為這個法務部沒有在這裡這個當然是 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
10198.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
10219.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
正常老百姓都看不下去了那這樣以後誰去從事正當的工作但是房子洗錢做我這裡面很努力那要再加上金融發展方面也是兩方面要要兼顧啦這要兼顧也是也是很辛苦啦那但是這個部分雖然辛苦不是不能不是不要做還是要去努力啊對於那個我們國內在推這個亞洲 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
10221.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
10240.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
資產管理中心現在很多山寨版的我看媒體有報導很多山寨版的什麼家族什麼公司家族什麼財富公司什麼管理公司什麼這一類的這個東西的話你是不是必須要在這個部分可能在數據的研究上或是相關的研究上然後公佈 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
10241.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
10261.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
揭露訊息上面讓各個銀行或者讓老百姓更能了解這樣子也可以從詐騙可以某個階段可以斬斷那個詐騙不然老百姓會相信會相信這件事好像非常有財富然後用這個身份來詐騙詐騙一般的民眾這問題是不是有什麼的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
10262.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
10280.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
不過剛剛委員提到就是說就是這些的一些防詐的範例跟提醒我們這個謝謝委員的提醒我們會來做剛剛提到就是說其實任何一個案件就是給我們一個教訓我想我們各個部會在防洗前都非常的認真努力只是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
10281.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
10309.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
既然被突破了我們就要深自檢討我們真的要好好的想就我們掌管的金流部分我們真的會好好來檢討這件事情看看從中間可以得到什麼教訓可以來修補或是來改善我們現行的作法立法院當然也會在法律的修改方面出力像這種什麼詐騙子交保多少錢這種我們也是看不下去但是你們還是要努力尤其在資訊的揭露方面好嗎是的謝謝主委謝謝委員謝謝陳委員接下來我們請林楚英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
10329.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
10332.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
謝謝主席主席有請彭主委請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
10335.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
10356.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
委員好主委好 主委我特別看了您之前的幾個公開談話尤其是在9月6號有關於談到保險金融因應高齡化社會的四個大改變當中其實我非常有感我想今天在場的許多人面對我們接下來下一個世代 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
10357.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
10360.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
不只是剛剛委員提到的什麼打炸啦我認為人口的問題其實是蠻重要的那麼過去當然台灣都說我們因為生育率的關係有所謂的人口問題但事實上我們可能也正在迎接的是下一波的人口紅利也就是其實我們這些所謂 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
10377.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
10392.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
比較有資歷的年長者他其實重新回到社會的可能性是高的而且非常有可能就像過去電影講的高年級實習生他們不一定真的是實習生而是創造社會的第二春 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
10392.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
10408.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那麼您特別提到就是說因應這個高齡化的社會思維要做改變但是本席現在提出來的這個問題我想它是一直存在於銀行之間的一個潛規則我剛剛上海之前有先特別google了一下主委今年60 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
10410.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
10416.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
可以公布啦不算秘密那本人也年過50那麼對於我們來說我們現在都講我們是處於在職涯上面的壯年我們現在也不會講說我們是中年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
10425.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
10448.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
面對這樣的一個狀況的時候那麼在過去我們講普惠金融但接下來的下一步是不是一個可以迎接全齡化社會的全齡金融我想這個之前我們也談過過去我曾經非常肯定就是在普惠金融的時候推出這個以防養老就是提供高齡者可以用自己的不動產 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
10449.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
10470.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
去借款給銀行然後未來換取自己的生活費最後有朝一如果他離開了他的房子不一定需要留給子孫可能就是直接把它變成是給銀行去做其他的處理因為我已經有享受到我過去累積下來的財富但是我也必須強調面對高齡化的社會當中現在銀行的貸款 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
10475.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
10498.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
他沒有明定但是他其實普遍來說他就是受貸者的年齡加貸款的期限不可以大於75有一些銀行他甚至於可能會更下降可能是65或甚至於是70那麼面對這樣的一個狀況他等於就排擠了 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
10499.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
10521.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
高齡者購屋上面他所受到的貸款的壓力你可以貸但是呢你的年限無法貸那麼長那你等於就是你必須要付更高額的租金或者更高額的所謂包括這個費用等等那我要強調的是如果我們要面臨全齡化的金融的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
10522.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
10534.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那麼這樣的一個潛規則有沒有可能先被突破而且它不是個案性的突破因為我相信啦如果今天是郭台銘或者是黃仁勳他要回來台灣要來置產 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
10537.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
10554.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
那銀行一定會搶著給但我不希望是這樣而是我們整體就像您所提到的思維要改變服務內容要革新技術跟方法的突破還有法規跟監理要調整這是您當時提到的金融跟保險業因應高齡化社會的四大改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
10555.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
10571.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那像這樣的潛規則有沒有可能改變不然的話台灣現在我們平均的年齡是80女生是84.3歲男性是77平均是80以現在這個潛規則那麼就有可能已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
10573.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
10592.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
超過我們的平均年齡都已經超過80了來 主委謝謝 謝謝委員用這個全齡金融我非常喜歡這個字這個確實把那個inclusive這個字眼全部涵蓋我覺得這個就是特別是台灣面臨到高齡化的時候剛剛舉的那個貸款只是其中一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
10592.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
10607.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
那我上任以後呢我就跟同仁講說我們先要把年齡這個東西把它去標籤化我說高齡化是我們無法阻卻的趨勢如果我們金融業不改變觀念不改變未來的技術不改變未來提供的服務還有法規不改變的話這個對我們是個威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
10610.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
10635.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
如果我們這邊都可以改的話這就是一個莫大的機會所以我想剛才委員講就是我們未來金管會要走的方向就是我們希望第一個讓我們的金融業未來有更寬廣的那個範圍而且這寬廣範圍是要服務真正的民眾的需要到最後剛才委員說我60歲確實我現在在思考說我接下來要怎麼做那我擔心可能我到70歲很多事情可能金融服務就不會涵蓋到我了 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
10636.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
10657.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
那我接下來但是未來我還是在這個社會上我還是有這些需求但是我們要跟我們所有金融機構來看普惠的概念就是全聯金融主委其實我把這個點點出來當然不是硬性的規定說從今之後請金管會去要求所有的銀行在放貸款的時候就撇開年紀這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
10659.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
10687.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
但是像這樣的潛規則的存在其實不用騙大家大家都知道你去辦過房貸你就知道他會給你一個年限給你一個年紀那這個部分我希望就像如您所說的不要性別歧視也不要年齡歧視而是去看這一棟房子我們都知道你在辦貸款的時候房子就是擔保品嘛這個房子的擔保品包括你能夠負擔的部分而不要把它變成是歧視的部分那我想這個會是改進的第一步也是 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
10688.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
10714.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
對於面對高齡化社會的所謂高齡化的金融服務來講非常重要的第一步對我再插一句話就是說實際上假設我們金融機構還是沿襲以前的技術是做不到這個所以我剛才講你的經營技術方法也要變就是說你要想想看有沒有什麼其他的方法可以解決我們過去所擔心的問題這是我們要來努力的好謝謝謝謝林委員接下來我們請陳冠廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
10729.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
10731.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
謝謝主席 我們請主委好 請碰主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
10735.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
10761.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
委員好主委好所以現在這個金管會推動普惠的金融那這樣子的措施我是肯定的因為不管怎麼樣要讓廣大的民眾能夠實現有感的政策我想這是很重要的可是現在我包含我自己我們現在民眾我們接到包含所有的這種簡訊的時候我覺得是有一點認知過災數位過災為什麼因為數位部現在推111 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
10765.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
10781.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
政府簡訊可是詐團又會用維基地台來去偽冒然後金管會他向民眾宣傳說不要點擊要輸入各自的簡訊連結然後也有在數位部又在推GOV.TW的安全連結 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
10783.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
10798.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
所以說我剛才講的這一串我自己都搞不太清楚所以到底是要點還是不要點要點但是不要點及那些要求輸入各自的簡訊連結但是如果我點的話它是政府的簡訊嗎它可能是政府的簡訊但是可能又被這個詐騙集團來偽冒所以現在這種認知過載數位過載的狀況那事實上是存現的 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
10803.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
10813.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
那現在台灣的事實查核中心的報告也有證實是很多民眾真的把比方說我舉例中國信通的通知信當成是詐團來去舉報我也看過那個簡訊那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
10816.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
10837.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
主委你現在就是說現在這種完全各司其職也好或者是說多頭馬車也好我們看到重複的不同的訊息在累積那這樣子民眾他怎麼樣第一時間知道到底要信哪一個 到底要聽哪一個蘇衛部 NCC 還是金管會你怎麼看這件事情確實我也問了一個非常非常困難的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
10838.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
10865.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
剛才講說就像我現在個人接到一個電話基本上如果不認識我幾乎都不太能接我想很多人都這樣就跟剛剛委員提到數位過載或資訊過載的問題大家已經很擔心這問題確實說我們在提醒客戶的過程當中我們從我們的角度講說任何跟你比如說陌生人教你發財這個要注意再來叫你點個資要特別小心這是提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
10865.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
10887.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
但是有時候你真的也會跟政府直接往來你就是要做這件事情反而會產生阻礙我也曾經接過一個很多年接過說國稅局說我中獎了我也不相信我把它掛了實際上後來我真的中獎所以實際上真的這個概念上確實我覺得剛剛委員這問題不好回答但是我們還是會先以提醒就是說我們知道的事情先以提醒但是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
10888.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
10912.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
建構更安全像剛剛委員講的1111也有人用那個遮蓋的方式去做到這件事情確實很厲害就是說道高一尺 謀高一丈但是我覺得對普羅大眾可以接受的方式還是我們先來做先提醒這部分至於說很特殊的情況的話那我們也會來考慮就是說就像我們現在金融機構過去1111的時候我們現在也來想想看這件事情是不是有些其他的方案這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
10913.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
10936.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
我只能用這樣的方式先暫時等我們想到全班式的作為的時候我們再來處理這個問題像有沒有可能就是不要各自多頭馬車因為變成說現在警政署他到我們下鄉來去宣導的時候他等於是說到底是要用哪一個作為準則就是一個大問題因為現在可能會簡化成說那你就不要所有的簡訊都不要讀不要看不要會 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
10937.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
10962.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那這樣子的話那時候有些時候是緊急推波你告訴你說你的這個帳號受影響的時候你又會認為他是詐騙帳號所以說是不是由金管會當然主要的跨部會協調者以你們的基準為基準再去跟數位部數位部跟NCC也好他是協助你們做基準因為你是第一線接觸金融機關的你們可能會更瞭解實際上面的需求有沒有可能讓你們作為統整的這個機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
10963.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
10977.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
我想這件事情我們會因為我們定期在林秉新政委主持的打炸部分我想可以把這建議拿出來討論因為像確實統一這個東西也好做但是就是說統一也比較容易被突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
10979.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
10990.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
當然所以說這個就是一樣就是你要尋求這個平衡但是也可能會被分別突破那這怎麼辦呢那必須要從變民跟這一個主柵之中找一個那最後我趕快因為時間的關係趕快問另外一個問題就是關於服務僵化 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
10995.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
11010.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
也是體感的落差因為我們講普惠嘛那是跟體感落差比方說這個有很多的鄉親他在上個月他在股票密碼股票的帳戶的密碼要更改可是他被要求要到本人要到原開戶分行去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
11010.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
11033.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
主委現在是2025年我覺得有點荒謬因為他在台北工作但是他要回到高雄他要回到雲林他要回到嘉義然後為了改個密碼再專程回去但是他自己本人親自臨櫃到他的台北的總公司都不行請問這個方式是怎麼辦怎麼樣去處理我知道我們9月25號有啟動金融Face ID的驗證的轉接中心可是為什麼還有類似這樣子的出現剛開始我們就是想擴大事辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
11036.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
11054.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
我們現在是希望他們能夠盡量來擴大就是說我只要在一個地方認證在其他地方就可以使用就免除我們在數位體驗上不好的感覺剛剛委員剛剛講到了就跟剛剛前面有委員說那個金門鄉親的問題還想說是不是一定要到原來的那個據點去做這件事情才能完成什麼這我們會來確實來了解看看怎麼樣減少這個我簡單回覆就是說因為我們在辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
11061.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
11083.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
開戶的時候現在台灣的金融要花五六個小時七八個小時這個大家都知道也在詬病一定會做一件事情就是照相照相之後而且簽名照相等等其實你可以做這些生物特徵的查核那個應該是不困難我們不要說為了要避免詐騙然後把金融變得非常複雜化那也會影響到外國人投資的意願資本也很難進來台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
11085.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
11091.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這是好建議我們會來思考怎麼樣把剛剛的問題把它解決好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝陳委員接下來我們請洪孟楷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
11111.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
11129.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
好主席謝謝麻煩請我們彭主委請彭主委好喂好彭主委監管會是我們國內非常重要的這個金融管理單位那大家都是很認真的在工作謝謝但是我想最近太子集團詐騙案讓國人嘩然那其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
11133.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
11158.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
很多人根本是有一樣的疑慮就是說我們都已經有那麼多的一些監管了但是數十億的資金到底怎麼流入台灣以及為何過去那麼長的一個時間內我們沒有示警或是警覺到所以能不能說明一下因為兩個部分第一現在有報導出來講說這個太子詐騙集團他們的資金有45億被扣押代表說有45億應該是從海外進來的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
11160.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
11178.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
對那這是透過金流 他不是帶現金吧對 他是從海外匯款居多是 那海外匯款居多 大多數啦因為不太可能 他也沒有講說他帶現金進來嘛那只要海外匯款進來一定都會有所謂的金流嘛橋外資投資都要經過一定的管道審核是 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
11178.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
11190.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那再加上他現在買了很多的豪宅民車也都是用匯款吧還是他們用現金 都是用帳戶或是用銀行支票支付是 所以這就變成兩層問題第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
11192.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
11216.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
主委能不能因為現在我也看到是說我們有媒體報導甚至昨天高檢署還有針對找相關部會來講其實講的問題也是一樣對其實高檢署我們都跟他密切的合作就是昨天那個會議應該前天的會議也是我們聯繫以後大家趕快來做希望成立一個跨部會的工作小組來處理這件事情因為確實剛剛委員所關心的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
11217.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
11239.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
整個金流的部分是我們整個國家反洗錢的機制裡面銀行所負責的就是對那個異常交易的通報然後去把各種的情資集中以後再預判接下來我們要做什麼犯罪增防的動作我想剛剛講說這個被突破了這整個來講我覺得整個體系大家都要好好來檢討一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
11240.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
11256.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
你該規定的都做了為什麼他還能夠突破這件事情就是一個犯例的本身本來犯罪的手法不斷的在提高過去我們的手法可能沒辦法攔住到我們現在就是這就是一般普羅大眾老百姓想問的過去幾年一個個人戶頭要交一個30萬40萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
11258.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
11276.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
不到50萬可能都臨櫃會被航員來詢問關心網路上都還有交戰守則是說你要講說是要用什麼樣的用途對不對但是本席現在想要問的也想了解是說那為什麼你剛剛你講這些其實都是大家想要問的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
11277.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
11301.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
其實那過去這幾年到底我們是都管一般老百姓反而對於那種跨國公司海外公司然後完全沒有去設防當然不是啦這樣也不對啊當然不是我覺得齁就剛剛那個林委員也在也在質詢這相同我我跟他講當一個案子已經發生你在回推的時候感覺好像就是就是怎麼會沒看到但他我們今天竟然每天這個交易這麼大的時候呢我們只能透過預警系統來做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
11302.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
11327.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
我剛講說這整個制度的話如果說只因為一個案子就說我們整個失聯應該不是我覺得我們在很多細節沒辦法這邊公開說明他確實在資金匯入的過程當中不如我們想像就好像我就把一筆錢崩就進來不是他有非常非常複雜說這是我們請我們檢察局同仁在整個來釐清的過程還有就是整個未來豪宅豪車的交易的流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
11327.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
11352.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
不是涉及到金流還涉及到比如說我們的地震室代輸很多這個環節這些都是要跨部我們趕快來彌補才是重點主委不要誤解本席的意思本席開宗明義就講因為我認為說您上任之後確實我們在討論很多次防炸的部分你也確實有做一些功課也做一些積極的作為所以說在金管這一塊面我其實是還是以抱持正向肯定但我要講的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
11353.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
11370.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
他不是一個小數目第一45億那他是不管是化整為零進來那本息也算啦如果45億過去這七年他平均一年也六七億啊那如果說對比一個個人戶五十萬的金流都要被詢問的時候那他一年六七億怎麼樣這樣進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
11372.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
11391.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
一個部分委員這個簡單說明一下一個是境外投資進來它是一個以反洗錢的角度或是境外資金來源的審查的模式剛才說民眾去領錢提錢是銀行覺得你可能有被詐騙的可能性他做一個關懷這兩個是一個是防詐是不同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
11392.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
11409.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
是不一樣所以說他的金額標準認定可能也會有很大的不同他的那個啟動的方式是不一樣就比如說我今天我們現場的行為很辛苦他看你神色慌張或是你講的就是他們標準的套路對不對他一定會加以光環比如說你買黃金做裝潢這個他們都很有警覺心的 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
11410.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
11434.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
那當然我的意思說假設你今天是一個我們正常我們就鼓勵外資來投資台灣其實坦白講這就是一個任何國家的政策但比如以他這個犯罪團伙來看他在全世界突破了很多很多國家的這個國際洗錢的規範這也是我們要做國際合作還有就是我們自己要好好來檢討是 主委其實您剛剛講到重點本席也在講是說因為這不只太極集團我們再去了解也不只是只有台灣受害 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
11435.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
11452.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
新加坡英國美國都受害所以說才啟動甚至他在新加坡的資產可能更多英國也是更多所以說兩個部分我覺得這就是變成是我們之後還有檢討空間這一點另外第二點也是他進來到台灣的資金 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
11454.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
11471.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
轉化成實體的一些部分然後變成是他有點大家講說洗錢的一個手法所以包括說買豪宅買民車那相對來講這些豪宅民車他的成交樣本是比較屬於高單價也是比較屬於金字塔相對來講成交的數量也會比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
11472.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
11498.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
所以未來針對這個部分如果說有成交然後他的資金來源的部分是不是有要更緊實的地方確實剛剛委員提到我們這次也藉由這個案例我們未來對豪車豪宅的金流的掌控我們會來重新來思考整套的流程應該如何防篤這樣的一個方法但是細節不能在這邊說是我想還是提醒因為本席已經看到我覺得說過去照理講 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
11499.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
11519.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
以過去金管會這樣子的狀況不應該發生但是既然已經發生了我們就要想說怎麼樣透過這發生的事件把漏洞給補起來所以說既然已經有那就請金管會這邊再我們會持續努力好不好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝洪委員謝謝接下來我們請謝龍介委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
11538.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
11547.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
主席 我請主委好 請彭主委主委 你好這個早期集團在查勒布實在是越來越厲害透過這個金融體制衝到台灣市民專會 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
11565.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
11592.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
我看所有我們問我們這裡的董事 或另外一些董事 包括地方議會的董事每一個候補署 大家就都去投訴尤其中和的歷關啦譬如說 我的中和主動幫我做經濟中和的時候我去派出所做筆錄 去分局做筆錄檢測說你這沒事情 不起訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
11596.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
11597.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
抱歉我台語不好,我要講公益 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
11619.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
11627.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
你說這麼好 你又說你不好第一個 剛剛那個委員講的應該是我們就是有販售那個叫告戒戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
11628.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
11648.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
就是你的帳戶被拿去做一些他已經不起訴了都已經請出來為什麼他還要自己死掉他還沒辦法去那是法務部再去要做的沒有啦 法務部我問你現在變成 來 好來就說他現在可以去申訴就去做這個我想這是告戒戶啦所以不是你要求小人這樣做就對了不是 好來現在有的小人就是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
11657.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
11686.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
銀行主動我請問你你有要求銀行說你若是經市貨199%你要對銀行有一個屏蔽的指標嗎沒有沒有都沒有我們是這樣啦我們是用兩個指標為主第一個就是說你的那個分子是你在那個警示帳戶的占比分母是你在總帳戶的占比你如果說是100%那就很好嘛你市占率多當然就這麼多是合理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
11687.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
11698.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
但如果這個超過那部分的話代表說你做的比喻我現在要跟你說不是你的問題嘛是因為銀行知道你有這個約束他自己做的所以現在來銀行自己超前部署啦他覺得你這個中和復營現在把這個金匙之後拿來問候我們來問究竟他說沒有啊這款的我們沒有跟他約束啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
11711.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
11725.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
變成年輕人走去給你們出分或是走去給你們約束走去給你們限制 我懺悔了國境年輕人主動超前部署這樣我懺悔你所以這樣來要怎麼處理我跟你說 剛剛很多委員也關心這件事情就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
11733.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
11756.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
今天來講去年我們打造專法通過以後有一條就是要求銀行要主動的去偵查到不法交易的時候你要做部分跟全部的這些的動作那當然我們在管控警示帳戶警示帳戶從剛剛有委員提到從六萬多一直一路升高這個不好所以我就說希望他們做管控你做管控我都支持要不信 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
11757.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
11769.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
不要擴大打擊 造成擾民 我跟你講我希望 就是說我現在講的這個落差的你沒有約束 那麼銀行方面主動敲錢報紙 擴大打擊我跟你們講 為什麼他們覺得沒關係 你們知道嗎因為你們現在之前有要求說這個中央如果是幾點沒頂檔的 或者是緊急安裝 他們都在請責嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
11787.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
11809.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那麼這在清晨中,他就要順便利用,他也沒差啦,假怕是整個他也沒差啦,不可以這樣啦,不可以,本來要維持氣候和健康中間有一個溫馨的信念嘛,你今天要用小錢補償,他現在要做什麼呢?每一個人去喝酒的時候,你敢知道,他又不會說我是早期的,你看我 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
11811.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
11818.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
你一天不能拿回去比喻這個狀況是正好他變得要去喝幾瓶你的時候他會跟孩子玩我為什麼不能用那天我為什麼要來臨櫃你給我用那天旁邊的人聽到就覺得你是騙多了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
11830.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
11857.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
這個先做先社會的問題你知不知道是我知道這個部分因為也很多人陳情我們也非常審慎的認真在處理你現在要怎麼處理第一個我們在前一次第一次發生這件事情我們就把銀行請過來說這原因先搞清楚再來第一個你一定要優化你那個比如說標準不可以隨便亂控接下來發生了怎麼善後怎麼去做到解控主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
11859.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
11877.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
因為這很普遍啦 兩個月內 兩個月內 你們重新議定連繞三盤推延啦主席 我建議說 兩個月內 由我們的金管會 再度詢問明確的作業設計 什麼可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
11881.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
11901.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
什麼案件不可避免就是說經過司法釐清過已經有不起訴以本身以詐欺無赦的這頂盒不載列官的出函你有辦法做到嗎我跟你說剛才講的那幾個狀況我們沒有 有辦法本身剛才講的兩個月來在釐清的部分你統領所有的銀行在一次發一個通告的阿滴回本回這樣可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
11911.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
11912.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
接下來我們請黃珊珊委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
11940.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
11944.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
謝謝主席謝謝主席我請彭主委請彭主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
11948.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
11973.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
主委長我想大家委員剛剛幾位都問了一樣的問題這在我去年就已經問過了告戒戶的問題是程序問題現在已經變成社會問題這個內容對是這個本來是一個法令上的程序問題現在是社會問題而且還蠻嚴重的所以再不解決只會越來越嚴重所以法務部也做出說明了他可以因為過去是過了那個申訴期他沒有申訴現在是可以的 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
11974.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
11990.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
再開一個門讓他們去申訴不然法院不起訴等於廢止這第一點第二點就是剛剛看到的就是我們現在的金融機構非常主動所以造成了也非常多的民怨這也是我們處理過也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
11991.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
12008.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
不要像我昨天總質詢的時候說我們的政府我們的銀行只抓小像那種跨國企業的詐騙集團抓不到然後民眾的小小的賬戶每天被找麻煩我覺得這個不能再發生這個守法的優化我們一定會 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
12009.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
12035.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
手法要做到有用的啦這種沒用的事情別做這個絕對是我們大家共通的目標啦是一個年輕人他們自己吃飯轉個帳然後現在被查那個大的詐騙集團每那邊洗這麼多的錢查都查不到這個相對波動感實在太重了確實他的他這個如果做的不精準但是如果反過來講確實也有一部分真的被他攔到了這實際上就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
12036.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
12056.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
但是我們希望能夠抓到正確的但是也不要造成干擾第二個當然不希望錯放但是這麼大的被錯放的已經不是新聞了他變成是就在眼前今天我要問的是主委我們在去年520上任院長上任我當時質詢的時候有跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
12059.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
12083.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
卓院長幫我們的金融創新希望能夠爭取比照環境部比照其他的部門要求國發基金給我們百億資金來做所謂的新創投資院長答應了也做了計劃你們也開過會了一年了請問有什麼進度嗎目前狀況看起來還是連樓梯想都沒有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
12084.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
12094.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
對 我剛剛報告裡面也讀到就是說第一個當然是這個簽照我們現在是先由我是主委一年多一年半 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
12096.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
12114.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
為什麼連樓梯想都沒有其實我們現在剛才那個報告裡有提到我們是先由那個我們業者自主性的來成立這就是我的問題啊你們要業者自主性的然後找了一家金控來金控之間是競爭的嘛他處理我就不會處理啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
12115.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
12136.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
他主導我就不會參加啦這是一個最大的問題是今天的新創我們希望他能夠成為台灣的獨角獸結果你讓業者自己去處理業者都有私心業者都有各自的利益條件最重要的是他不相關的你找誰我沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
12137.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
12152.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
但是你的標準出來了沒你有相關的輔導辦法出來了沒相關的細節出來沒資格出來沒完全沒有耶連基本的SOP都沒有我是金融創新業者我想要跟誰申請我不知道耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
12153.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
12167.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
一百億擺在那邊沒有人理我耶沒有 其實委員不是這樣了啦至少沒有人理我啊我們爭取了一百億院長也給你了國發會說只要今晚會來我就給啊今晚會來了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
12170.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
12194.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
委員我們是在想用什麼方式來你想了一年半了其實也不是我們毫無作為我剛才講過就是我們現在的話因為先針對你現在是要外包嗎整個什麼東西都外包算了乾脆什麼事都不要做也不是這麼說我想剛才講說其實我們是個監理單位如果真的來掌管這個基金的話我們也在想說用什麼架構你要外包我們意見公開招標大家願意來幫忙的幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
12195.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
12214.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
我不是找到一家我想幫忙然後就給你做然後你愛做不做委員一定要相信就是說我們當然希望有這筆的基金來支持我們的金融科技的發展這個郝委員非常感謝委員我想上次您提到我也是非常感謝但是就是說這個東西要怎麼來運作的話有沒有這部分我們會想一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
12215.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
12245.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
我覺得你就直接找相關的國發基金也好他們都有相關的投資的經驗他們的方式甚至我在台北市的時候我們也曾經在台北市我們想成立自己的創投基金當時的機制都已經想好了架構都想好了找專業的單位來做篩選相關的所謂新創他們的提案由他們來做專業的評估然後做專業的投資然後民間再入資但是絕不會交給一家業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
12245.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
12264.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
當然你現在的做法是交給一家業者嗎也不是那什麼時候要開始有一些方法讓我們知道一下至少給我們回報一下吧一年半了百億基金放在那邊不去好好發展我覺得很可惜那百億基金是一個未來的期待我想說 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
12265.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
12277.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
現在政府的財政也不是說我們現在假設我們業界能夠先有自發性這也不用一個成立一個單獨的組織來管這個基金你知道新創業者只要有機會他們都會希望來申請現在連申請的機會都沒有其實也不見得要跟金管會來申請其實國發會那邊也有一個新創綻放計畫是 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
12284.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
12302.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
但是你金管會我們有特別為了金融新創金融科技專門希望能夠撥百億基金這百億基金是院長承諾的這也是中華民國你們所謂的重大政策尤其是接下去我們要金融跟國際接軌我們還要做亞洲資產中心不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
12304.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
12321.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
是謝謝我想說委員這個其實我們有在我只問沒有時間了現在什麼時候要給我們一個初步的方法你的方法出來了沒有一年了一年半了我到現在沒有看到答案也沒有任何進度然後連最基本的SOP都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
12322.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
12346.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
什麼時候要有現在11月11月底12月底可以給我們一個答案嗎可以這個方法讓業者知道你可以來申請你可以來有這個機會有什麼樣的新創技術我們可以有什麼樣的機會讓你有機會做這樣的投資年底之前呢我把剛才講那個概念怎麼結合我們這個業者這個基金不要再是概念了他應該要落地了 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
12346.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
12353.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
一年半了總該有個具體的計畫國發基金有很多的經驗我不知道為什麼金管會要擺這麼久 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
12355.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
12377.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
因為他是國發基金我們是金管會所以金管會你是主管業務你就是把你們的方法把他們找到想投資的人我金管會怎麼輔導你們訂出標準作業流程我想我們的方向是一致的方法的部分我想年底之前我提出一個計畫跟大院報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
12379.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
12397.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
針對國發基金這筆錢我們有什麼計畫不要再是變成你們業者拿去辦一辦你們自己想辦法我覺得這樣子的情況有點不負責任第二個部分接下去我們昨天有講一萬塊要發了金管會也一直說我們要最重要的是要引領所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
12398.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
12423.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
正確的使用然後我昨天問了年輕人從小到大其實沒有學過真正的金融素養然後金管會說你們一直都在做金融素養教育包括金融普及工作第七期推動計畫我想問一下主委已經都七期了你覺得我們的金融素養金融知識普及成效怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
12424.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
12442.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
確實我們在開會的時候我們內部也在提到說過去我們這些推動工作偏向於實體的這樣的一個宣導到現在為止就是辦宣導推播影片然後KPI是辦了幾場活動還有學員滿意度還有學員的反饋這個是你們的KPI嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
12448.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
12475.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
確實因為這是很容易量化比如場次跟人數所以沒有實際的成效沒有那個成效的話要由數字來說話如果可能的話我是覺得我們有教育部我們有非常多的民間的團體我們有非常多的金控他們也都在做金融素養教育也希望這些事情可以整合起來進入到中小學生他們的生活日常 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
12476.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
12478.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
現在的問題是我們現在發一萬塊給他我們很怕他臨走因為臨走他不會花 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
12482.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
12511.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
这个国家很奇怪其实我们刚刚委员提到我们都有在做只是说我们都有在做但是效果不知道KPI非常空洞我现在的问题是你现在还要做第八期接下去还有很多的资源还有金控本身他们有ESG企业社会责任他们其实都有非常多的相关的资源可以落实到所谓的金融素养教育我觉得主委应该定出一个全国性的金融素养计划 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
12512.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
12524.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
不管是跟教育部的合作或者是進到我們的所謂的課綱如果一個孩子到現在我們發給他一萬塊我們還怕他亂花表示我們的金融素養教育是非常失敗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
12526.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
12545.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
確實喔其實我個人也有個期望啦就是真的很多年前我去過英國的時候就知道他們以金融立國確實在把很多的教材上面就把金融教育放進去我當時就非常的我們的投資詐騙會這麼盛行就是因為我們大家包括我跟你我們在大學以前沒有學過理財 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
12545.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
12561.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
這是我們來努力的所以您的金融素養教育我也希望您有訂出一個完整的計畫而不是現在辦了幾場演講會推播了多少數字然後多少人來參加學員有多少回饋滿意度多少這種KPI真的不要也罷 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
12563.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
12583.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
這還是有它的成效但是我覺得剛剛委員提點很好結合民間資源結合你的銀行集中在某些區塊讓它產生效果所有的金融機構都有這樣的資源只是要不要用怎麼用好不好用甚至是不是讓他們進入學校來協助我覺得這是一個好的方向好謝謝謝謝黃委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
12588.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
12609.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
接下來我們請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在下一位徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在下一位葉源之委員葉源之委員葉源之委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
12612.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
12620.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢現在處理臨時提案共議案請議事人員宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
12622.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
12645.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
按由本院委員賴世寶等人有見於金融監督管理委員會應確切落實保險業在2026年1月1日起全面適用IFRS17國際財務報導準則第17號保險合約規範要求保險公司之資產與負債皆須以公允價值評估以忠實呈現其經營的風險與績效 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
12648.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
12662.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
企業財務報表的公允性與透明度是金融市場運作基石金融監督管理委員會不疑為降低匯率對保險公司帳面價值波動的影響而排除或變更保險公司受到國際財務報導準則之規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
12665.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
12665.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
請問在場委員有無異議 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
12694.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
12701.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
就是按照金管會的所改的文字嗎好 那金管會有沒有意見來 請說來 請主委我已經按你的意見改了 都改了沒關係 請主委來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
12710.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
12725.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
我想在這邊可不可以請那個提案委員能夠這是一個非常非常專業的問題那用這樣提案的方式我當然也是一個方法可不可以容我再跟提案委員解釋清楚如果覺得還有需要再來提這個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
12726.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
12741.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
沒有 這是演繹而已啦已經加演繹啦你演繹就是你自己砍著辦而已啦演繹已經演繹了不要 你們改了文字嘛演繹你就研究看看嘛給我們報告就這樣而已啦好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
12741.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
12759.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
但是前面的話我想如果這個東西因為也不是現在是定案的事情如果可以因為我覺得這是一個真的涉及到專業討論的問題就用這樣一個簡單的決議比如說他這裡面提到比如說不異議這個什麼之類我覺得這可不可以就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
12760.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
12786.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
用一個比較 我們來研議是可以研議嘛 就研議而已嘛研議就大話式的你不要擔心嘛因為現在還在尋求社會共識的階段對啊 所以你就研議啊假設這成為是一個變成一個僵硬的這樣的沒有沒有沒有 研議別忘了是研議我想如果是研議的話不要做為是一個這樣的話我們可以好好再來公布研議啦 研究研究主委你要再跟提案委員再做個溝通嗎先通過吧 研議而已啦你就不用 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
12789.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
12814.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
那沒關係我給主委跟三分鐘的時間跟提案委員處的溝通這是你們改的啊這是剛才我在台上沒有時間如果說我可以跟委員再好好溝通一下那我請主委再跟提案委員處溝通好不好那給主委三分鐘的時間你研究什麼問題你只是研究這樣而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
12816.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
12819.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
沒關係 請主委跟賴委員做個說明我們休息三分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
12892.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
12894.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
12971.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
12980.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
谢谢大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
13035.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
13039.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
好 那我們現在繼續開會那是不是請經管會主委就剛剛在這個修改的部分再來念一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
13059.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
13084.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
有鑒於金融監督管理委員會因確實落實保險業在二零二六年一月一日起全面適用IFR十七國際財務報導準則第十七號保險合約規範要求保險公司資產負債接續以公允價值評估以忠實呈現其經營風險與績效企業財務報表之公允性與透明是金融市場運作基石金融監督管理委員會因審慎處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
13086.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
13112.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
為降低匯率對保險公司帳面價值波動的影響而排除或變更保險公司受到國際財務報導準則之規範原提案要求金管會原要求原提案要求金融監督管理委員會因嚴議採取其他暫行措施之可行性以化解保險業面對匯率變化之難處的難處但仍應遵守國際快遇準則以忠實呈現保險業經營結果是否有當進行公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
13115.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
13143.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
好 謝謝主委那賴委員如果這樣子我們已經犯了這麼寬了是不是給我們時間表可以不可以半年還是一年還是幾個月你不給我一個時間表不過我想這個是因為要研議結果嘛就你做一個報告結果出來給我們研議結果的話我想在半年之內半年之內可以嗎半年好不好半年內結果交給財政委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
13155.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
13162.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
好那就再增加這個要求金融監督管理委員會於半年內研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
13171.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
13179.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
將研議結果加在最後面加在最後面並將研議結果在半年內交財政委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
13194.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
13208.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
好那就最後將另將研議結果送交於半年內送交財政委員會好那就按照協商的結論修正通過好 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
13212.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
13226.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
本次会议做如下的决定一 报告及询答完毕二 委员质询未及答复或请补充资讯请金融监督管理委员会于一周内以书面答复委员令要求期限者重新锁定 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
13226.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
13246.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
三 委员徐欣盈所提书面质询委员黄珊珊所提书面补充资料均列入记录刊登公报并请金融监督管理委员会以书面答复四 本次会议议程已进行完毕朋友不在场委员补题书面质询已并列入记录刊登公报并请议事人员协助处理散会 |