| IVOD_ID |
170171 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170171 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-22-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-29T12:08:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-29T12:19:31+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:10:51 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/05a40576d455a9dba2cc2749b18af1a67e55e861df8cbb70ad040a94c83a6654f0a3a616ef225dcc5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
許忠信 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:08:40 - 12:19:31 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查教育部函為修正「高級中等以下學校教師解聘不續聘停聘或資遣辦法」部分條文及「公立高級中等以下學校教師成績考核辦法」第五條、第六條之一條文案。【本案如未經各黨團簽署不復議同意書，則不予審查】
二、審查
(一) 委員蘇清泉等20人擬具「國民教育法第三條條文修正草案」案。
(二) 委員邱鎮軍等20人擬具「國民教育法第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。
(三) 國民黨黨團擬具「國民教育法第三條、第四條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(四) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「國民教育法第三條及第四條條文修正草案」案。
(五) 委員葉元之等18人擬具「國民教育法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。
(六) 委員邱鎮軍等22人擬具「國民教育法第四十四條及第四十八條條文修正草案」案。
(七) 委員徐欣瑩等17人擬具「國民教育法第三條、第四條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
(八) 委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「國民教育法第四十四條條文修正草案」案。
(九) 委員林倩綺等21人擬具「國民教育法第十三條條文修正草案」案。
(十) 委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「國民教育法第三條、第四條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。
【進行詢答及逐條審查】【6月29日及7月1、2日三天一次會】） |
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有請次長委員不好意思 您的麥克風沒開我們時間重新計算 謝謝各位同仁 雖然我不是本會的委員 |
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61.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
但是因為今天接受到解聘以及考核辦法新制的施行到今天剛好半年所以我一個實體的問題一個程序的問題要來請教次長您今天的報告我大概整理成這樣一個體系圖也就是說在管教部分如果是適當的管教根據他的目的手段等合乎比例原則這個有一般的管教跟特別管教 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
91.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那如果是不當的管將這個時候如果有主席違法室友是不罰那如果沒有主席違法室友就會有各種情形消失會議來處理那處罰如果是違法處罰也有可能會到消失會議那我現在這個實體的問題先來請教您也是現在行政院長卓榮泰很頭大的霸凌它是什麼意義 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
92.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
117.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那我們先來了解霸凌相關的韓國有一個影集叫做鐵拳教育這個鐵拳教育它的原著它是作者支持體罰那台灣不是鐵拳教育而已台灣曾經有永春拳教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
119.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
147.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們某一所大學老師是對學生施以永春拳所以鐵拳跟永春拳都出生在發生在我們的教育體系裡面那這個當然是不當的管教當然是不當的管教不管你是用永春拳還是鐵拳並非依法的管教權所以我們不保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
149.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
176.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那麼另外一種情形就是學生霸凌學生學生霸凌學生那這個比較常見有沒有可能老師霸凌學生有沒有可能老師霸凌學生我們貿易談判代表楊真女被認定為有職場霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
178.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
197.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
而這個霸凌的意見竟然說他打斷部署的發言然後對部署有冒犯的意見不讓他表達冒犯方式不讓部署表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
199.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
218.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那由於我們霸凌這個概念在教育部如果認定的定義啊我任何法律名詞不懂我會查教育部是怎麼樣界定的所以我們教育部對霸凌的定義啊對其他機關有範例的作用 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
220.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
239.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
請問次長我們在那個霸凌霸凌防制準則裡面提到霸凌的部分是指個人或集體持續以言語文字圖畫符號肢體動作電子通訊網際網路或其他方式直接或間接對他人故意為貶抑排擠 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
240.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
267.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
欺負、騷擾或戲弄等行為使他人處於具有敵意或不友善環境而產生精神上、身體上、財產上之損害或影響正常學習活動之進行這是霸凌防治準則裡面這個定義我有查過對那麼楊振尼總代表他的言行有造成對整個談判代表這麼多人都過程霸凌嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
269.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
298.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
根據他的調查說對很多他的同仁也都用這種方式我個人認為如果把霸凌這麼廣義化的話那這個以後我們當各部會的長官都要很小心你可能講話部署沒有讓他講完你可能對部署講話比較不客氣就會構成霸凌持續性 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
299.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
325.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以我們教育部在這裡概念的拿捏非常的精準所以我相信我們老師不會去霸凌全班的同學更不可能霸凌個別的同學那這個實體的問題我們今天謝謝次長給我這個答案那如果有霸凌等這個違法的管教或是處罰就有可能會去檢舉進入校事會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
327.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
352.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那麼最近屏東我們黨部反映上來說有屏東的老師因為在這個校事會議說到調查生不如死生不如死非常痛苦所以呢這一種案件的檢舉或是申訴我們現在已經降到22%成案的進入校事會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
357.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
384.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那本來是82有降下來那現在那個不受理的比例也提高有但是不受理有沒有救濟的制度啊也就是說學生家長他的投訴不受理我看到你的報告沒有講救濟的制度重複投訴的話我們基本上不受理那他如果去救濟他認為這個不公平他當然可以再去救濟沒有管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
385.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
414.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我發現你的辦法裡面第四條陳情人有管道我們那個第四條有我們不受理要讓他有合法的第二次的申訴的救濟制度往上級機關可以陳情要上上級機關主管機關學校的主管機關不然的話大家去學校學校按照我們辦法就是從無投訴就不受理這是程序上的第一個問題第二個我們在校事會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
415.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
443.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
如果做成不續聘解任他是打行政訴訟了那如果我們認為不至於解聘而只是考積的問題就回流到考核的機制所以我聽起來您的報告這樣是很清楚但是在這裡我如果是那個家長或是投訴之人我認為他續聘而只是考積我不服 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
445.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
468.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
這個也是向這個主管機關投訴我看你們的辦法裡面有有有第十條請那個委員可以參與我們那個第十條我們那個解聘不續聘辦法回流也就是說在下次會議回流到考積三十天內可以提出可以跟那個主管機關提出陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
469.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
487.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
像主管機關 也就是說如果是國立高中的話就像教育部那麼如果是地方的國中 縣市政府所以我如果不符消失會議去聘但是變成對不起 這部分我們請署長來回答好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
493.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
507.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我個人研究是沒有啦家長裁罰之後是沒有他不受理的部分可以啦可以再呈現但是那個已經做成決定的是沒有做成決定續聘但是考積如果家長不滿的話這個沒有辦法這個已經做成決定了沒有這個機制了那因為你們剛剛是對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
512.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
533.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我今天是來協助我們櫃會櫃部能夠建立一個完整的機制目前是這樣因為我們台灣的法制不是只有教育部有這種機制我們法務部法規是最多的都有很健全的機制其實不受理也要有救濟然後對回流的案件家長不服也要有救濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
534.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
537.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
至少要二審這樣會比較無重一點這個可能還要再從長計議就是說看看怎麼樣子提過去在食物現場上好像大部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
552.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
580.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
對 會反覆就是說家長他就是不能接受譬如說你記他大過他認為應該要開始要解聘他就是一直在陳情這可能會造成現場的困擾是 對所以如果有二審的話可以服眾基本上因為我們校士會已經是屬於那個外聘的外聘我們他獨立的調查一個外聘專家對 所以他幾乎幾乎三個都是那三個都是調查小組都是那他做出來的決定就是決定了到教評會就決定了我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
582.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
602.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
消失會決定續聘然後回流到烤雞的家長不服還要讓他有救濟的途徑這樣就perfect非常謝謝次長今天的打呼也很感動您剛才講說願意去請律師來協助這些家長這些老師來打這個訴訟這個必要因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
606.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
631.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
已經有老師跟我反映這個制度讓他們生不如死我們會去用因公設送的部分跟地方政府再做一個討論說哪些部分是可以直接補助的因為地方政府他比較可能他在執行上比較保守啦所以我們國立的部分剛才委員提到了那十幾件其實都是我們補助的我們認為說達到那個標準我們就補助那已經有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
632.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
645.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
未來我們可能會針對這個制度更積極的去輔導各縣市政府來提供這些協助那如果初期地方政府認為有困難我們會用我們的計畫補助先行好的謝謝市長 |