| IVOD_ID |
170130 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170130 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-25T09:44:12+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-25T10:02:33+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:21 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5296dbcedce5686e8e981a21e5dbdbc009d298f9b89000c687f17b75dbce2a9c2cf89a319f4586af5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
翁曉玲 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:44:12 - 10:02:33 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、考試院秘書長、監察院秘書長、法務部部長、公平交易委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、中央選舉委員會針對「我國憲政機關、獨立機關首長代理制度之現況與精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席我首先先請司法院高明署長還有法務部的這部長 |
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22.192 |
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這兩天有一則與司法有關的新聞讓本席感到非常的震驚就是一位前基隆地檢署的零性檢察官他涉嫌放高利貸那根據檢方指出的內容這個零性檢察官因為他是以人頭名義去放貸放貸金額高達一億以上而且他的獲利 |
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45.425 |
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超過了4300萬因為他是放高利貸他的年利率甚至高達六成到八成四所以為了掩飾犯行還涉嫌未據時申報財產辦假離婚避免財產揭露等等所以這個案子基本上經過 |
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64.357 |
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檢察官申請羈押進鑒獲准之後全案在前兩天然後癥結後已經提起公訴但是這樣的一個檢察官因為他長期涉及到經營中立放貸獲利數千萬而且他本身是一個具備高度法律素養之人就起訴後法院竟然以裁定兩萬元就交保我想這樣子的一個情況這個法院他針對 |
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首先跟委員 |
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118.66 |
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139.991 |
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我想這個法官他會裁定他有他的具體理由那我也不因為這個是屬於審判核心我不能夠予以評價但是我必須要說一個犯罪本質他機身重跟有沒有羈押必要是兩件事將來他雖然被交保可是他將來的有罪判決是什麼呢 |
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140.991 |
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167.359 |
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我們在這個疑審後要不要受羈押我們要考量的是羈押必要性是了解謝謝秘書長但是我們現在想說這個交保的金額你看看一個涉嫌收取4300多萬元暴力的人交保金額竟然他的交保金額竟然比一般的竊盜酒駕案件的交保金還要低我們再來看看之前這柯文哲案他的交保金額高達7000萬 |
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169.099 |
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178.172 |
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然後去年大罷免的時候有一些案子是涉及到偽造罷免連署的整個交保金也是高達千萬 |
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179.833 |
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所以其实就从这个案子里面基本上就让我们去让一般的老百姓很难理解到底法官的裁量权是如何去裁量的是不是已经出现了明显失衡我们在前几个礼拜还出现这个彰化的地院的法官针对独家的交保也是一样他还是根本就不需应该是说是无保请回 |
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206.953 |
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就是针对先前彰化地方法院对独家犯无保请回这也是引起社会哗然所以诸如此类的这样的事情司法院应该要跟法官们开个讨论会什么对于这个所谓的交保的裁量拒保的裁量或者积压这应该要进行一个通盘考试 |
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229.398 |
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245.932 |
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進行通盤的討論否則是與民間的法律情感太遠了跟委員報告其實剛剛委員所提到的通盤討論是我們隨時都在進行因為這是隨時都在學習的可是同樣的我要跟委員報告因為 |
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247.173 |
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交保會交保是他這個整個案件的考量當然沒有錯我們看到起訴是寫高達84可是法官他看的是整個捐贈數量其實秘書長我想這個事情我只是要再強調的就是整個現在司法為什麼讓大家覺得不具公信力 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
271.038 |
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292.893 |
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的原因也是因為在很多的個案裡面他凸顯出就法官的裁量權他所做的決定跟我們一般人民的法律情感太遙遠了對不對這個一個等於說放高利貸獲利四千多萬他兩萬元他就交保了那之前的獨家的問題也是還無保請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
293.793 |
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318.4 |
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對 我想這個對於法務部來說 應該也是一個挫折吧檢察官很努力的去偵查辦案 但是呢 沒想到像這樣子的一個對 當然我要講的是 因為這個是跟這個前檢察官有關基隆地院的檢察官 他今天做出了這樣的事情所以接下來我想請問 部長就說 現在這位檢察官他的狀況是怎麼樣 是停職還是辭職了 |
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320.765 |
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336.217 |
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你們有沒有對於這位放高一代的檢察官有進行任何的懲戒跟委員報告那這件事我們就已經起訴了去求重刑那另外的確是他那個法官交保是出我想社會的意料之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
336.937 |
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340.178 |
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那我想這部分他的犯刑非常的嚴重我們對這個檢查違法亂紀用重力還有一些的偽造文書所以現在除了刑事上面來說的話至於他的行政責任責任有在進行嗎 |
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353.38 |
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359.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
現在這個行政另外刑事我們是起訴了那這件那個法官那個繳保兩萬塊才用繳保兩萬我們提起抗告因為的確是那個兩萬塊那個行政調查部門行政就審部門現在在進行中現在真的進行中好我希望就是法務部不要寬帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
370.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
398.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這個絕對不會 我們都起訴了 就求重刑 還駕駛駕駛駕駛我們這也提抗告了 我們希望這個能夠法院能夠撤銷 能夠再採取因為這次有郭川正 其實在審理中還有郭川正逃亡之餘所以事實上如果要交保 我是認為啦 個人看法啦我認為要有一定的相當的一個 擔保他們不會逃亡 不會郭川的一個金額是的 好 謝謝部長 那麼兩位先請回那接下來我要請考試院的劉秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
405.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
426.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
好 林秘書長好因為回到我們今天的主要的專報的主題是涉及是討論到有關於植物代理制度的問題那麼事實上現在在考試院或詮釋部的主管法規當中有一個各機關植物代理應行注意事項是那請問這個各機關植物代理應行注意事項它規範的範圍是什麼有沒有包含就是中央政府機關還是說它只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
429.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
457.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
就針對常任文官的部分只是針對常任文官的部分對所以各機關職務代理應行注意事項是不包括政務首長我的理解應該是這樣只是涉及到常任文官的首長不一定首長對當然不一定首長但是因為在你們第三條裡面有講機關首長副首長職務出缺的時候可以由法定代理人或符合資格人員代理所以換句話說你們這裡講的機關首長副首長是指的是常任文官的 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
458.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
483.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
機關首長副首長不包括政務當然從這一點來說我們就可以知道就是其實考試院基本上對於所謂的政務首長政務人員的這部分是完全沒有去思考到就是說他的這個職務當他長期代理而且沒有任何次數限制的時候是不是會影響到整個公務機關的正常運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
485.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
507.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那我認為說考試院基本上應該要去檢討這個職務代理一行注意事項當然他現在只是一個行政命令那麼未來有沒有機會可以提升到法律位階好做一個通盤的這個檢討那並且將職務代理法治化我認為正式考試院全市部應該要去思考而且要去正視的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
510.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
531.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
其實在委員提出今天報告的這個主題的時候我們也有把這個制度來做一個並同的思考就是說那如果對照到我們一般公務體系部分就是一加一代理一年為限必要時延長一年那但是因為考慮到就是說一般公務文官體系的職務他的代理應該是說他比較容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
532.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
546.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
它的代理比較不會有爭議啦那它的可替代性也比較高但如果是把它運用到政務體系的話那如果又加以一些限制那最後如果它出現了沒有人可以代理的時候那這個對機關的運作影響也會變另外一個問題這個職務代理基本上可能也會出現一些問題對不對特別是 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
552.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
558.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
我們為什麼要有一個職務代理的陰性注意事項或是裡面要做一些規定也是因為考慮到就是每個職務它都有它的一些特殊性它的重要性然後所以呢當這個職務執行的執行者如果萬一不能夠來執行的時候必須要有個代理人但是代理通常來講它就是短暫的嘛暫時的可是如果你當把代理常態化之後就會出現很大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
577.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
589.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
因此在你們自己的陰性注意事項裡面也講了最多就是一年這還是針對事務官的部分但是我們知道所有政務首長他位高權重他握有非常重要的這個任務還有這個職權 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
590.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
616.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那麼反而是權力越大的人越是重要的人他就可以無限期的代理下去這對於整個的政務的推動執行來說我認為會出了很大的問題當然譬如說以剛剛講的司法院院長為例現在已經代理了一年一年多了即將要可能要快兩年了一個司法院院長同時兼任憲法法庭的審判長可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
620.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
637.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這個重要的正式的院長跟審判長職務然後一直都是用代理來這個進行這個基本上是很不妥的一件事情所以這也是本席為什麼要提出相關的這個組織法的修正好那接下來我想請法務部這個政部長請秘書長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
662.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我們剛有談到有關於檢查總長代理的問題因為事實上法務部現在說檢查總長的代理他是主要的依據的是最高檢察署的處務規程的第11條 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
663.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
668.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
最高檢察署處規程第十一條所以總統可以執行指定代理人行使檢察總長之權那我想要談的就是說因為剛剛部長也講說其實代理職務也很重要這個檢察總長不能夠空缺那本身也同意但是呢如果說你認為說這個規定是這麼重要這個代理職務是這麼重要為什麼不把它提升到法律位階 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
689.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
704.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這部分我們學法律保留原則所謂法律保留原則就是只要是涉及到國家重要組織人事權限分配及人民權利義務有重大影響事項的都應該要有法律明文來規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
706.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
729.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以對於像檢察總長這麼重要的職務 結果反而都是透過一般的行政規則去訂定或行政命令去訂定 然後它不是一個法律來命定所以這也是會讓人詬病 為什麼我們的代理總長的職務你要不然就把它名為定在法院組織法 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
730.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
746.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
這部分如果說有因為這反而是司法院的主管的一個法規那當然是關係到我們那個總長是不是那個一個剛剛委員關心的就是代理的問題那當然我們認為是目前的一個代理這部分我們認為是有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
747.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
763.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
一個過度的一個行政處置我想就是說因為過去大家認為說代理他只是個過度那麼不會說是長期的代理可是當我們發現整個政府機關他自己的自律他的倫理失靈了出現了很大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
764.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
782.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那麼我們就必須要把過去沒有關注到的一些議題讓它法制化、明文化那這樣的話未來不管是在代理的任命或是指定或是期限以及代理到底次數是不是可以一直不斷的同一個人一直連續下去這個有一個法律的明文規定大家才有所本嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
783.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
800.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是 我當然知道現在部長你很困難 因為代理總長也不是您指定的這個代理總長是法務部是曾請行政院那個報請行政院曾請總統來指派的那的確是徐代理總長因為他非常所以這個現在代理檢查總長的名單是您曾請總統來 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
806.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
808.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
的確是因為要一個有代理不可一日沒有檢查總裁是 可是我們之前已經講過這個議題整個檢查體系人才濟濟為什麼要去提起一位被立法院否決的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
821.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
828.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
帶理檢查總統的人選去進行代理我覺得這個部分當然是中國民眾看在眼裡都覺得沒有辦法接受的這個議題我想我們就不用再討論了因為事實上現在就是由徐新強來代理所以因為從他的例子才讓我們知道說 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
841.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
846.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我想各大報都有報告一個非常上述的代理 職務做得好基本上是應該的那麼否則他就根本不應該代理我覺得這是兩回事我們今天討論的是制度面的問題對 再跟他這個代理總長他擔任了這個職務之後他能不能把事情做好我覺得這是兩回事所以我們今天要談的是說制度面上面我們代理是不是應該有期間長短的限制代理是不是應該有次數的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
870.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
892.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那對於代理的這個具有代理資格的人是不是不應該是被立法院否決掉的資格的人所以從徐錫祥的案子當然就凸顯出這個議題的重要性而這也是我們今天為什麼要把有關於代理職務的這個問題我們要把它法治化所以這個地方的話我想就是這個請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
895.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
917.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這個當然也不需要再為學習廂做什麼辯護了那接下來我們當然有很多的法案然後我們需要一個一個來進行討論那我當然也希望防護部長能夠去支持還有最後一個小小的問題就是針對三大獨立機關現在NCC那我們可以麻煩請NCC的主名 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
925.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
929.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
目前的三位委員即將在7月31號這期屆滿據您了解的話行政院到底有沒有進行提名作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
944.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
963.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
目前據報載是說 佔頓堂秘書長有在表示行政院有在徵詢中有在徵詢中那麼現在NCC有沒有準備萬一到了7月31號之後NCC沒有辦個委員那麼NCC接下來要如何適從報告委員當然我們尊重行政院既有的行政的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
973.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
986.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
所以也就是說如果說萬一沒有任何的委員被提名或者是說即便是被提名了可能不適合貝利法院否決的話那會讓NCC無法運作對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
987.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1011.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
因為根據我們納火官4-613號的解釋我們行政院還是最高的行政機關那是不是要派代理人來執行職務是嗎?現在NCC組織法裡面可以直接由行政院院長去指定一個非NCC委員的來代理 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1012.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1036.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
因為剛剛委員是說如果7月31號之後一直都沒有委員的話那怎麼去運作嘛所以NCC不就停擺了嘛原則上NCC就停擺了嘛可是如果剛剛重溫竹密的口中好像似乎行政院現在有意是不是要指定一個非NCC委員的人就是來擔任NCC主委嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1037.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1065.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
沒有這樣的情形當然我們也樂見說會指派問主秘你來代理主委嗎我不曉得啦因為這部分不是不曉得你應該說不行依法是不可以的不是說不曉得我希望說萬一這個行政院腦子壞了這個又違法亂證然後指派想要指派主秘來代理主委這是完全違法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1067.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1085.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
對 我寧可讓NCC停擺但是也不可以違反我們的法定組織法定程序就法定的組織程序然後去指派一個根本不是具有委員資格的事務官 文官來擔任委員或是主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1087.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1099.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好 是的 謝謝好 本期今天的這個集訓到這邊然後也希望就是溫主秘回去還是要這個透過這個陳代理主委去提醒行政院儘速要提名ACC委員好嗎好 謝謝 |