| IVOD_ID |
170128 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170128 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-25 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-36-21 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
21 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-25T09:18:23+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-25T09:30:06+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:11:43 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5296dbcedce5686ed2bb8f63a5004a2c09d298f9b89000c613b3f5dc7860e3d1824389cbc841edea5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳昭姿 |
| 委員發言時間 |
09:18:23 - 09:30:06 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-25T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期司法及法制委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：邀請司法院秘書長、考試院秘書長、監察院秘書長、法務部部長、公平交易委員會、國家通訊傳播委員會、中央選舉委員會針對「我國憲政機關、獨立機關首長代理制度之現況與精進」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
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謝謝主席,有請司法院秘書長、考試院秘書長、監察院秘書長、公平會毛主秘、NCC溫主秘跟中選會謝主秘好,有請這些部會首長們可以到前方 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
28.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
57.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 謝謝主席首先請教這個司法院高祖密請問司法院院長出缺代理人選是否為大法官是否有法律層級的制度來規範代理人請你回答是或不是 是的好 謝謝 謝謝高秘書長請問考試院劉秘書長請問考試院院長出缺代理人選是否需為考試委員是否有法律層級的制度來規範代理人目前沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
72.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
目前沒有沒有法律層級的制度來規範代理人對但是是需要有考試委員來出任目前就是因為組織法裡面好那考試院的組織法是還有缺口的好我了解好 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
73.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
97.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
那請教監察院黃秘書長請問監察院長出缺 代理人是否需要為監察委員是否有法律層級的制度規範代理人好 謝謝請問公平會的毛主秘這個公平會主委出缺的時候 代理人是否需要為公平會委員是否有法律層級的制度來規範代理人好 謝謝毛主秘 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
99.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
120.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
請問NCC的主委 溫主委主委出缺的時候 代理人是否需要NCC委員是否需要有法律層級的制度來規範代理人是的 現行就有好 謝謝溫主秘請教中選會的謝主秘請問中選會主委出缺的時候 代理人是否需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
121.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
130.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
為中選會委員是否有法律層級的制度來規範代理人是好 謝謝謝謝主秘好 各位請回好 現在麻煩請法務部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
139.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
167.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
陳部長你因為我時間這麼早我請問你一邊聽法務部請教部長當檢查總長出缺的時候為什麼沒有法律層級的制度規範代理人如何選出來今天剛剛法務部的報告承認檢查總長的代理人選一直以來都是用慣例慣例處理連最基本的辦法都沒有那您在這個報告中今天交出來的報告中寫的是檢查總長是特任官 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
168.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
172.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
也不是理由 為什麼呢 我舉個例子公平會主委也是特任官但是在公平會組織法第五條就有寫了當主委出缺的時候是由副主委代理那其他的組織法 剛剛這個考試院考試院可能也有一個缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
184.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
195.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那其他的機關的組織法也有類似的規定所以就只有這個最重要的是檢查總長的代理沒有法律層級的規範連最基本的辦法都沒有所以今天法務部的報告我覺得在理由上說不過去我要強調的是台灣是個法治國家結果最懂法律的最該懂法治原國的法務部缺乏法治 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
210.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
231.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
習慣把這個慣例作為理所當然我認為這是非常危險的認知所以部長我想請教你立法院已經否決的檢查總長被提名人徐錫翔的人事案但賴總統卻指定他作為指定一個被國會否決的人來代理請問部長你認為這樣適合嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
236.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
254.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
請你回答我是不適合這個我們想是代理人因為我們那個總統提名的檢查總長的人選當然未獲大院的一個通過但是我們這個提名的這個檢查總長的人選就是一個非常適合的在他的學經歷他這整個一個非常優秀其實他代理期間的時候也提出非常上述 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
262.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
268.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那非常上述研究那些的 比如說那個整個一個是不是有社會就是緩社會性人格的一個授信人 但是我想這樣是非常適合的視改會 因為別人也有提出不同意見 認為這個是變相加工國會的人事同意權把代理制度作為政治對抗工具 損害檢查公信 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
294.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
欠缺民主正當性 創下憲政惡例因為指派代理是一個屬於事務性 暫時性的一個組織那這個代理人選在整個代理期間也行使的一個檢查總統的職權也非常的一個特殊這位整個媒體也做大幅的一個報導總統會再提名新的人選送來立院嗎還是就讓這個徐行祥無限期的代理下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
316.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
337.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
據您了解呢我想這部分那個一個要不要提名我想我們尊重那個反組織法裡面相關的一個規定謝謝 柏定本黨團已經提案修法了代理檢察總長不能超過三個月而且會被國會否決的人也不能夠來做代理人那看來您是您是支持這個修法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
338.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
你剛剛最後的報告是有點開放那我想你支持這個修法嗎我的問題我很清楚啦一切就按照法律的規定嘛那一個指定代理即是一個過渡的一個行政的一個行政處置嘛所以立法院如果提出相關修法基本上你也會再說個兩句那個修法這個是整個檢查總長的一個任命是規定在法院組織法第66條的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
364.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
369.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那這部分是我們也尊重的一個法案主管機關的一個意見那我想我們本部會有一些的一個建立好啦 柏廷你給我一點時間啦柏廷接下來我們來談一下詐騙啦而且這個總長我認為這個也不能夠像代理也不能夠一直的更替 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
381.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
390.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
一個更替我想這個會妨礙整個一個業務的一個政策部長您平常的解釋都非常的論述非常多我們大概都知道我們來談一下詐騙打詐跟房企前我們絕對支持但是法務部前幾年新增的告誡處分本來是要攔截詐騙金流那如果配套沒做好根本就是會變成濫殺無辜這個有個告誡戶的制度他本來是要處罰那些亂給別人帳戶的人一旦被警察告誡那銀行帳戶至少要凍結五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
411.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
但現在出現一大堆無辜的受害者特別是年輕人很多人只是在網路上賣東西當買家匯錢進來那事後才發現那筆錢是詐騙來的那這些買家根本沒有把帳密帳號密碼給這個詐騙集團那甚至有人莫名其妙被匯入一塊錢他直接變成那個詐欺的共犯變成告借戶那部長我要講說這些商家其實他是單純的做生意他因為收到有問題的款項 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
438.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
442.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
就被直接當作這個網路人頭結果凍結帳戶五年那你認為這樣符合比例原則嗎對很多無辜民眾來說網銀不能用帳戶被鎖死簡直是社會性死亡人你認為這樣符合比例原則嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
454.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
468.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個告借戶本來就是要解決人頭賬戶的一個問題那也不要在一開始就把那個人頭戶當作刑事犯罪來偵查所以說現在出現的一些 告借戶是一種警方發給的一個行政處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
469.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
474.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那是不是像委員講的這個情形那我們當然非常重視那這部分我們在今年的7月1日要開會來研商如何去解決適合我委員關係的這樣的一個問題那我們還是看一下這個統計數字可是警政署的資料自從這個洗錢防濟法實施以來到今年5月為止 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
491.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
496.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
檢察機關開立的告誡處分有13萬件那民眾提訴願的有3981件那最後撤銷成功大概是1000出頭件撤銷率是撤銷不到1%這個所謂的翻案率是非常的低啦那部長其實最重要的問題是目前的訴願程序是原水救不了進火你受到處分要30天內提訴願 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
512.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
518.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那這個程序動輒要三到五個月如果再打行政訴訟那簡直是曠日廢時而且犯案率非常低那請部長想一想那當地三方受詐騙的受害者他可能要等半年多才會拿到這個不起訴處分的確定還有這個甚至是無罪的這個確定但他的告誡處分就是帳戶凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
532.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
549.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
他不會自動撤銷喔那很多委員已經注意到這個法規的漏洞已經有都提案了所以我認為是要建立制度如果確定不起訴或是經法院判決無罪那受告誡處分者是不是可以拿相關的證明文件申請撤銷告誡部長你支持這樣的做法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
551.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
568.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
跟委員報告那個告誡會的確有實質上的一個需要那剛才委員提供的數據是13萬多萬件嘛那其實這個我們告誡的時候這些被人家當作洗錢當作詐團使用的這些的一個工具這個是對被害人詐欺被害人委員我現在已經很關心那犯罪被害人的這種的一個詐欺犯罪被害人的一個保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
573.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
582.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那是齁 我跟委員報告齁 那個是不是可以拿不起訴處分書來做一個解除告解的一個依據齁 我想這個應該是要尋 因為它是一個行政處分齁 刑事處分 這個行為是不是合法妥適齁 這個可以依照書院或行政訴訟來解決那另外那個不起訴處分 覺得不起訴處分是沒有犯罪證據 不用擺他的行為是妥適的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
597.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
604 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
這只是不能打倒一個犯罪的一個門檻而已嘛我想這個是大家都很知道的一般的法律的一個知識啦法治國家的原則是正當法律程序跟比例原則啦防治洗錢跟打造我們是百分百支持的但是也不能為了抓壞人錯殺一百人啊這個有允許救濟的機會啊有宿願啊 宿願行政署長的機會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
624.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
629.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
你剛剛說7月你會開始研議一些這是一個法治國基本的原理你研議的結果讓我去瞭解7月1日的話會在座開會研商就來更精進去讓委員講就是說不要傷及無辜第二不要傷及無辜因為這些受傷的都是年輕人他們在網路上賣東西那他也沒辦法賬密給別人 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
645.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
658.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
但是他會進來前是可能出現的問題所以現在他就很主動的被變成說是一個告戒戶但是他如果被判決無罪他又不能拿這個直接去撤銷這告戒不會判決無罪齁委員這個是兩個話沒有告戒就不會到刑案去去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
661.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
667.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
告誡是行政罪犯的我是指最後經過超幾個月以後的這個不會 最基本的法律觀念喔我不是全部開放喔我不是開放我就假設後來證實他不起訴等等等等這個時候我們是不是要主動不要讓他再去申請然後要經過也許半年的時間好嗎 部長就是說您了解我的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
683.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
698.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
大家都要打仗嘛7月1日的那個研商會議我想會主事解這個問題就麻煩董事長這個不要去傷及無辜當然會不會有那個我們會再做一個因為很多人都發現這裡出現了一些漏洞那我們就是再來重新檢討好嗎謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝陳委員那麼因為我們 |