| IVOD_ID |
170014 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/170014 |
| 日期 |
2026-06-17 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-19-18 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
18 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-06-17T10:04:23+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-06-17T10:20:37+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/d79496a9ef369d5f40b2340e242038716bbd52fc739e044706bfb484b39de06019ddf0aee35279f35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
楊瓊瓔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:04:23 - 10:20:37 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-06-17T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議（事由：審查115年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管 ：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金及核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)
【所列預算提案於115年6月25日(星期四)下午5時截止收件】
【6月17日及6月18日二天一次會】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 接下来我们请这个杨求英委员咨询谢主席 杨求英发言 邀请部长相关单位如果需要回复的你就请主动上来 谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
24.546 |
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我們來討論近期輝達執行長黃仁勳公開表達台灣電力供應的憂慮經濟部在6月12號你們首次召開經濟及產業發展的諮詢大會宣示要以半導體AI以及產業聯盟來推動百工百業的共同發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
50.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
77.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
但是會議當中同時也反映出一個根本性的落差因為產業端他們提出了這個要求他認為電力需求需要寬估為以籌謀 為以是在提醒我們經濟部呢那你可能是停滯在口號式的一個整合跟策略的一個宣示缺乏可檢驗的能源供應模型 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
78.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
85.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
跟算力基礎的一個整體配套那北徐認為在AI的這個爆發以及半導體的一個擴展包括了還有軍工還有無人機等這些新興產業都同步的在擴展在這個情況之下電力的需求它不是只有傳統線性的一個預估 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
103.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
128.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那同時呢它可以說是結構性的一個跳升結構性的跳升那經濟部目前您對於整個電力以及算力還有產業擴張之間的一個聯動關係沒有看到你提出一個整體性可量化的一個整體性的一個規劃的一個架構那所以會導致產業喊需求那政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
132.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
149.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
是做概念那這樣的一個治理落差的一個情況持續在擴大所以本席要給部長您來說明到底我們目前針對於電力的一個需求遇過的模型你是不是有納入第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
166.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
算力的需求第二個產業的擴張第三個供應鏈回流這三項的一個指標是不是有進入到整體性的一個評估那如果有你未來十年你的方向到底是什麼請做說明好謝謝謝謝委員那給我這個機會事實上委員剛剛講那三個議題都非常重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
172.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
197.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那我們也滾動式的每一年都把它放到我們的這個需求端來做一些考量那我們也去搭配我們的這個電力供應看看能不能滿足我們當然也跟這些委員做了一些說明那委員是他們是好意就是說因為我們現在很多的這個算力上的一些需求我們是每一年事實上都去問業者你們未來的部署狀況是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
198.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
223.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那問出來的結果我們就說這個是我們準備好來供應這樣的一個電力上的一些需求只是這個委員他們有提到說可能要稍微寬估一點因為企業界他現在預估的比如說他可能要增加100度假設是這樣但是有可能過了兩年三年以後他可能會比這個數字增加更多那我們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
223.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
228.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
怎麼講 超前部署或寬估了你聽到了這個聲音了嗎對對對那我們會往這個方向來做思考部長你現在因為我們每年都會問企業界他們的規劃部長你現在這樣回答難怪產業端跟你的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
241.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
266.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
產業端已經告訴你他執行者已經告訴你你也聽到了所以我還是要聽聽您既然聽到產業端的一個需求他不是只有一個口號那你要怎麼做我們沒有口號我們說你要怎麼做對我們會就是說剛剛提到就是說我們除了去詢問所有的企業可能會設置比如說算力中心的部分問出來以後我們會再寬估 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
268.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
272.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
產業端已經告訴你你必須要寬估包括剛剛我們講的這三大的這個產業需求你會寬估嗎會會寬估嗎因為剛剛的回答說連分子分母都在變動你們都已經說出來了表示寬估是必要的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
289.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
295.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
對 方向上是這樣那你能不能再具體告訴我也就是你聽到了這些的方向必須要寬估換句話說你目前所做的是不足以讓產業界他們的需求去放心的那你要怎麼樣做告訴產業界你怎麼樣做 你的規模 你的整體性的方式是如何讓他們安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
312.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
316.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
是 所以我剛剛跟委員報告就是說你不是在問啊 你已經知道了你要怎麼做我們模型裡面會從過去的趨勢還有詢問所有的企業界他們未來需求的一些相關規劃比如說他未來要蓋幾座廠還有他要不要設立算力中心這些電力需求我們都會顧出來現在產業界已經點出他的問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
336.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
339.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
謝謝你6月12號開的這個會議知道了問題在哪裡你能不能告訴我多久時間你聽到他們的需求你什麼時候可以告訴這些產業我就要聽到你的整體的一個規劃你大概多久時間可以告訴我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
353.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
379.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為目前你所宣告的6月12號宣告已經跟產業有落差嗎那你要怎麼樣去做呢經資會的部分我們大概是半年召開一次的我們就會半年我們就會給一些你的規劃剛剛我們達成一個共識寬估是必要的電力寬估需求是必要的對不對對那你多久時間可以告訴我們不需要到半年啊產業界他們要投資我到底安不安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
380.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
393.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
誰啊 電啊 這個很重要我們跟工學會 雖然這個你告訴我時間點好不好對 就是一季以後 一季以後一季以後你update告訴社會大眾 這非常重要那接下來我要跟你討論台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
394.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
415.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
投入來自電的問題 投入了這個5645億元我們要電網強化跟供電韌性那從111年到121年10年中的這些錢但是6月10號發生了一個我台中海線地區光光一個下雨 光光一個下雨就發生了14萬戶大停電清水殺戮無機大甲 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
419.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
436.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
十四萬戶陷入了黑暗我們的交通都停擺紅綠燈都停擺了交通大亂店家也因為停電而受損民眾的生活大受影響所以在這種情況之下呢你們給出的答案是什麼呢是告訴我們說是因為設備絕緣不良部長你在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
442.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
461.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我們花了這麼多錢五千六百四十五億十年陸續要做好執行將近五年觀光告訴我們是因為絕緣不良台中海線地區大家都知道有鹹卵 鹽分 石器這些都是自然條件都是幾十年來的自然條件那這該怎麼辦呢你觀光越下雨就導致十四萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
473.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
497.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
的這個居民受損 交通大亂 店家受傷受害 找誰陪啊所以在這樣的情況之下 如果只有告訴我們說因為下雨而他的學員任性不足導致這個理由 人民聽不下去耶因為我們已經執行了第五年了耶這一些條件不是今天發生耶這一些條件是自然成形的條件耶那這怎麼辦部長 真正的任性 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
505.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
519.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
真正的韌性,它不是只有停電不是只有停字在停電後趕快修復耶這不是真正的韌性耶那以後如果下雨就叫韌性那以後如果這個這個停電之後恢復,匯電就叫韌性那我請問電網,只有電網沒有韌性嗎所以我們要怎麼做啊這一些是自然條件已經成形到現在告訴我們這個原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
533.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
546.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
不能接受請說明台電因為這個好語主要是針對這一陣子的好語實在太大了你再告訴我這個理由當然當然如果你的內心做好我們會有這個理由嗎我這個是海線地區它本來就有這一些條件啦剛剛我說的對不對事實比較重嗎持續在做部長請部長回答從111年今天是115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
563.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
570.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們執行到這麼多千億的錢那你現在告訴我是因為一個豪雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
572.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
598.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
報委員那個千億的錢它是做它是在它是在職工這個工業區的部分那這個部分有其他部長你這樣講我們更要抗議囉是14萬護委沒有這個本來就有預算你怎麼可以這樣回答呢這個本來就有預算在做而且我剛剛本來就有預算在做我請問台中地區的供電耐性工程你究竟完成了哪些項目啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
599.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
626.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
請告訴我 請告訴我 本來就要做你完整的哪些項目 你降低了哪些風險只有一個豪宇 十四萬戶這樣好不好 就破功了是 委員這樣因為他有一些完整性的系統性的改善希望就是針對這次豪宇發生以後他會全面性的檢測那我想事後是不是我們有一個完整的說明你能不能告訴我台中地區供電任性工程你究竟做了哪些項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
627.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
633.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
你能不能告訴我你都不知道部長你降低了哪些風險你能不能告訴我你能不能告訴我你們都不知道能不能告訴我針對這一部分我們大概會從預防性的部分去做怎麼預防你已經自然條件都知道了下了一個雨就食之萬物影響受損的程度那麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
652.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
666.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
到現在你還沒有辦法告訴我你做了哪些工程你做了哪些項目你做了哪些改善你降低了哪些風險部長要不要全面性的檢討已經發生了那麼大的事情你現在還沒有辦法回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
668.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
691.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
我剛剛特別提到就是說我們會有一個完整的檢測然後來檢測這個所有的原因因為主要這個豪雨這麼大的情況部長 這一些工作都是你在從111年預算通過之後執行你必須要做的現在是中華民國115年沒有這個理由 我給社會大眾看給了這麼多的預算 只有一個豪雨一時失萬戶 交通大亂 店家受損 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
698.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
718.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
工廠工廠都炒大了怎麼辦找誰要啊所以我本席要求你到底在台中地區你現在沒有辦法回答本席我還是要邀請你去盤點你到底在台中地區你的韌性電玩你到底做了哪些項目你到底可以降低哪些風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
720.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
745.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
發生了重大的事情到現在還沒有辦法回答請你盡速一個禮拜內將書面資料給北市我們好好一起努力好不好我也請各個行政部門你們在回答的時候都有錄音錄音社會大眾希望知道答案能夠安心我拜託你們一定要用心告訴我們答案而不是一問三不知好不好最後一個議題我再請教一下就是珍珠串的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
747.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
772.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
計畫因為你強調了喔所有的水庫跟水壩的一個串聯南北水資源的調度你要讓這個農業跟晶片產業共享穩定的這個水源這是政府的責任也是政府要做的這個方向但是你們也宣稱了台積電在這個平坡的供應鏈呢他是這個無需擔心水電的問題這是政府宣布的但是這個這個論述 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
775.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
804.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
本席認為部長這個高度於依賴在整個跨區的一個調整以及氣候的一個水源的一個假設你目前為止你的兩個主要的因子在這裡用這樣子去調整但是你沒有同步的來公開完整的一個供需模型在枯水期風險的一個評估以及去用水你要怎麼樣優先的排序機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
805.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
825.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
從你這個制度 珍珠串的這個機制來看你目前個人認為是包裝在於全國水資源整合的工程但是實際上我們知道要整合沒那麼簡單因為它涉及到中南北水資源的一個重新分配還有產業用水的進逐 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
827.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
850.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
還有包括農業用水它在排擠的效應那麼在現在極端氣候的常態化如果你只有是以工程連通的方式來取代結構性的一個節水跟產業用水的配置的一個改革那你可能會讓水資源的一個治理呢從整個風險管理去 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
851.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
868.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
化身為現在的政治宣示 本行不希望如此 要真正的讓這個水電能夠吻合 能夠穩定 尤其在水 怎麼樣就穩定喔所以部長我要請教 你對外宣布農產跟晶片的這個產業用水 它是無力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
869.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
883.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
沒有關係沒有問題的那所以但是對於地方的農業以及民生的用水他如果承受壓力的時候我個人要請教經濟部你優先優先你的順位跟調度是怎麼樣請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
887.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
900.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
部長因為這是政策性的問題區域的部分區域調度的部分一定是某一個區域有多的水出來以後還會調度給缺水請正正本席的提問當水有承受壓力的時候你的順序調度是如何產業民生以及這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
911.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
930.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你怎麼樣去優先調度因為民生一定是第一啊民生第一因為有三方嘛產業 民生 以及農業嘛你現在回答的是一旦有壓力的時候是民生會第一優先那產業跟農業的部分我們會跟農業部做一個很好的協調工作比如說他一起幹怪完以後我們就會撥給產業用嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
934.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
959.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
對 所以說還是會跟農業部有一個協調機制已經有了 這樣的一個協調機制好 所以你現在回答的一個總結就是說你會以 如果水有壓力的時候當然我們不希望發生啦但是你政府本來就知道這個防範與未來嘛 未雨綢繆嘛那這樣預防重於治療所以你給我個人的答案是說第一個 你會以民生調度為第一優先那農業 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
960.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
971.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
然後產業兩個去做調整對一定要把這個制度去把它做好一定要去做好而不是只有做一個工程的串聯不是這是謝謝委員提醒好 謝謝 |