| IVOD_ID |
17001 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/17001 |
| 日期 |
2025-11-04 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-11-04T08:31:25+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-11-04T17:06:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
08:34:35 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a609f63c3f19a94920bf0a83d0d18514ced083051bafb051454bd754a77acdf5fe795ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-11-04T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第7次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院國民黨黨團擬具「樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例草案」，請審議案；本院委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等16人擬具「樺加沙風災暨花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖潰壩災後重建特別條例草案」，請審議案等5案。（10月31日）二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢。三、10月31日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、11月4日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:25 - 17:06:00 |
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法院會現在繼續開會對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢今天進行個人質詢內政組之質詢現在請第一位張委員致輪質詢好謝謝副院長各位委員各位官員大家早有請卓榮泰卓院長謝謝卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1778.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1793.182 |
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張委員好 主委院長早首先跟主委院長講一句辛苦了 謝謝大家都辛苦 謝謝主委院長 本席的選區來自於中和中和地狹人稠所以關心民眾生活品質 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1794.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1819.122 |
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的環境非常重要第二個交通建設非常重要我要這邊先感謝內政部以及國土署針對我們中和的無水下水道的興建第三期第一標的興建終於在我上任後一年多的時間在114年的10月1號正式動工三期一標的整個接管的可以讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1820.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1848.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
有7000多戶的民眾可以獲得相關的好處讓地方建設順利推行這邊也要拜託院長跟部長這邊我們三期第二標現在正在跟新北市政府正在跟我們的國土署內政部積極爭取也希望說大家共同努力讓我們的地方建設能夠推行包含我們的人行道改善工程也希望說盡量來推讓人民有一個更好的環境以及更好的交通謝謝 這邊要謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1850.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1864.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
謝謝院長 謝謝委員烏水下水道的處理是一個城市進步的指標人性道的改善更是安全的保障很謝謝委員的支持那往後內政部國土組跟委員持續對地方來做更多的這個建設跟服務是應該的 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1865.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1883.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好 謝謝院長要感謝監督還是繼續監督第二個就是要跟院長請教非洲豬瘟這次的入侵我們還是要必須正視根源的問題病毒顯然是從境外移入過去台灣並沒有非洲豬瘟自然傳播的途徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1884.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1913.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以這次非常有可能是境外移入第一道防線我相信大家都認為就是我們的邊境阻攔非常重要可是最近大家有沒有看到新聞當政府正在全力防堵非洲豬瘟疫情的時候確診出我們的航警局保安大隊有一位陳姓員警涉嫌收賄放屍走私案然後在今年桃園地權署調查在今年4月到9月他利用職務之便來協助走私集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1914.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1917.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
用公務門來放行加熱菸26次收費的金額高達百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1921.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1948.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
走私的菸高達9000條這件事情讓我們覺得重創國門安全讓社會質疑讓我們會擔心現在第一線的防線出現人為破口是不是我們的防疫跟邊境管制是有問題的 是尋同虛設的我要請教現在遇到院長遇到這樣的狀況有沒有一些改善的措施來讓這樣子的監督漏洞來去做防治 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1949.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1965.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
這個案是不是要先說明一下謝謝張委員的關心有關您提到的這位個別的警員他已經列入太處的對象我們也移送法辦當然他這件事情所牽涉到是加熱菸的部分跟委員所提到非洲豬瘟是不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1965.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1983.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
因為非洲豬瘟昨天農業部已經講了就是最主要的問題大概是出在未經徵阻的這個廚餘的部分那這個部分我們的警政署會全力來協助農業部再繼續往下追查好 謝謝部長跟院長尤其是部長的解釋我這邊要跟院長要報告的事情就是走私 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1984.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2001.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
會造成整個整體共犯結構的問題所以我拜託這邊要拜託部長跟院長不能把它視為一個個案而是對內我們自己本身的防堵走私這樣的問題的時候要特別的來注意第二個我要跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2002.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2025.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
院長要特別請教就我本席所了解現在我們的安檢大隊航警局的安檢大隊的人力是有非常明顯的一個缺口我這邊了解航警局的缺額高達250多人安檢大隊的缺額也差不多有100多個人所以我要跟院長跟部長報告的是不僅是我們內部 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2026.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2054.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
有相關我們操守的問題外部我們在面對這麼多的旅客跟貨物進出安檢的時候人力也相應的非常不多尤其在我們的安檢大隊我們編制的員額大概才400多萬400多人 抱歉400多人缺額就高達100多人這是一個非常嚴重的問題防疫安檢是非常重要的問題請問針對現在人力短缺的問題尤其我們非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2055.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2070.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
我們第三航廈已經有一部分也快要開放給我們所有國民來使用人力缺乏這麼大的問題有沒有院長跟部長有沒有一個讓人民可以安心我們的邊際防守的問題要怎麼來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2071.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2096.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
人力加強計畫我請部長來做說明我首先跟委員說明在非洲尊爆發之後行政院正式的會議討論過好幾次如何持續2018年以來的所有的邊境管制我們檢查的結果我們只有更嚴沒有放鬆同時我要求X光設備要正常人力要繼續加強檢疫權要讓他安全的上場去檢疫這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2098.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2109.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
違規的物品 讓違規的物品無處可藏因為人力現在缺的已經高達四分之一了X光對行李全部檢查而且會加量20%的檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2114.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2128.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
這人力有不夠需要再加強的我要求是為了人力加強在高峰時間所有的官務行警全部要上場不要讓覺得說排隊排好在等候全部要上場那人力的調配請部長來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2130.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2156.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
謝謝張委員的關心有關於行警缺額的部分確實是有發生過但是目前在114年10月的時候我們行警局已經補了61名的警力安檢大隊是補29名而且同時我們申請府安也就是保全的部分100人來協勤目前的缺額大致上不會影響到安檢的工作尤其是我們現在碰到這個邊境要防疫的部分大家都是群策群力 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2157.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2172.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
我跟部長講我了解現在缺額擺明是還沒有補齊因為保全跟我們安檢大隊的人是互相留用的保全他不具備有警員的資格但是他可以協勤 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2173.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2189.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以我這邊要拜託部長的事我一直在調現在到底缺額多少人到現在都還沒有我現在拿到都是很rough的數字這100多個人的缺額的部分所以我想說會後時間的關係趕快把資料提供出來我們會後會提供給 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2191.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2219.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
請院長來協助當時我記得我們歷任有幾位院長剛剛院長也特別提到當非洲豬瘟爆發的時候其實我們前任的蘇院長都有到我們的邊境到我們的國門來去做檢視請問現在發生這樣的狀況請問我們卓院長你有沒有考慮到我們的邊境來去慰勞我們所有的辛苦的弟兄好朋友我們在檢視這是所有非洲豬瘟可能爆發的原因我們認為它是從國內引爆出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2220.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2241.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
你是認為從國內引爆不是境外引入嗎?除以除以的部分除以是從哪裡來的?還是從境外嗎?除以沒有徵阻完全沒有按照規定來徵阻至於邊境的防護我們重複的檢查跟過去只有區沿沒有放鬆我們現在往後會再加延20%的能量來做邊境的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2241.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2267.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好 最後我請教一個這跟內政比較沒關係還是要請教就是針對財政部官務署認為說未達6公斤 自用不會抓以及食藥署認為要延益調整因為今天雖然是內政的可是這簡單的問題算有點複雜請問院長你認為針對財政部官務署說未達6公斤 自用不會抓那跟食藥署兩邊的衝突請問院長你這邊有沒有相對的想法跟看法我們現在要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2268.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2272.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
又從最高的標準最安全的標準這個檢討起來認為他還是有疏漏的話那會提高標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2278.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2303.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
即將會提交標準嗎下面去檢討如果這樣有疏漏的話就目前的整個檢查的過程有沒有疏漏人力量能能不能完全的補上來如果可以的話可以提高多少的標準我們就提高多少標準大概什麼時候會評估出來這我請財政部能夠盡快的把整個邊境的這個防疫邊境的這個把關的工作現在做全面的在加強當中不能不容許有任何的疏漏第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2305.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2332.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
我要再請教另外一個問題今天是11月4號之前我們在內政委員會裡面有討論過關於中選會的主委應該是在今年的11月4號是六位新任中選會委員的就職日我今天看到有一位新來的長官是我們新來的中選會主委嗎他們代理主委代理主委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2333.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2362.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好 那我請教一下代理主委今天您是以代理主委的身分到現場請問一下 院長我們現在到底缺額是幾名我們的提名作業開始了嗎大概什麼時候會開始我們現在正式的缺額是六名另外有一位是中途離開所以現在剩下四名的委員現在只剩四名 對所以我們還要再補幾名六加一都可以我們還要再補七名 有一位離開了那我想要請問一下現在中選會如何運作請教一下代理主委現在中選會可以運作嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2363.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2386.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
報告委員 現在因為委員沒有超過半數所以現在只剩下四位要五位才有辦法去召開委員會議那麼針對除了必須要經過委員會議的決議之外的業務我想代理期間我們會全力以赴請問一下代理主委我們現在每個月中選會會開幾次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2388.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2412.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
每次原則上一次每個月一次那現在如你所說的話那這個月是不是就沒辦法開會這個也沒辦法 因為不夠半數好 所以我要跟院長報告這就是我今天提出請代理主委來的問題這個問題非常嚴重因為李進勇主委今天不在我還記得我在質詢他的時候他特別提出來如果這個中選會的業務有所空缺 有所停蕩的話會是國家的危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2414.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2429.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
所以我再一次跟大院抱歉因為我們考量比較多現在我們先向各方來徵詢適當的社會公正人士或是法律專業人士能夠進入到這個中選會裡面來 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2431.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2448.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
時間上因為這個月沒有辦法開會但上個月已經把明年的這個地方選舉的日期定了所以我們會在這個月當中無論如何會把人選給補齊所以這個月所以院長您的意思是說這個月你會把名單送到立法院來嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2449.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2467.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
好 謝謝院長我也希望說代理主委非常辛苦感謝委員的體諒希望這個月可以把中選會的名單再送到立法院來審核 謝謝接下來我要再請教的就是其實我跟院長請教過很多次的就是台灣的數位身分證換發的政策到底何時確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2468.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2478.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
當時行政院在最早的時候從110年的1月21的時候當時暫緩發放數位身分證然後由行政院工程委員會來去做調節 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2480.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2498.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那從113年的1月19號調節成立可是其實大家都知道我們現在數位身份證其實花了人民非常多的納稅錢到現在就今年來講已經累積了大概花了人民十億的納稅錢不管是我們去年編了六千多萬今年又編了四千多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2499.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2519.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
其實台灣應該跟上世界而且台灣一直在講說我們是AI內閣結果我們現在台灣人用的身分證還是紙本的身分證很容易造成詐騙集團的詐騙的問題最近政府我們跟政府一起合作有一個非常好的普發線經營萬元最近也看到新聞在說禮拜天的新聞說龍山市外面 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2520.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2548.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
有人有詐騙集團擺了一個攤在跟人民收集身分證跟健保卡銀本說你只要給我們身分證跟健保卡銀本我們就給你一千塊為什麼我們擔心他拿到這個身分證的銀本他未來可以去普發現金可以領一萬元所以為什麼要跟部長跟院長講這件事情就是說我們的傳統的資本身分證在其他世界各國都算是比較沒有那麼先進的一個做法所以我 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2549.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2570.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
尤其我們今年要編四千多萬的維護費去年也編了六千多萬那台灣是資訊科技大國三年過去了我們現在沒有專法政策沒有拍板而且數位身份證花了十幾億的建制成本跟預算是不是請教院長跟部長我們有沒有機會把我們的數位身份證往前再邁一步 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2571.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2593.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
第一個就是普發現金的防詐機制是我們全力現在在進行防堵當中的我希望有任何的訊息盡快讓行政機關知道我們可以把這個任何的危險可疑的把它補起來至於個資法的保護我們現在正在做一個機關的轉換的銜接未來個資會成立之後他是主管機關所以目前可能有這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2594.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2616.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
緊接著過程至於先前的準備工作請部長來做說明是謝謝委員的關心委員你提到重點其實是資安不管是紙本或者是數位化資安的問題永遠是我們第一的要務所以我們現在在114年4月18的時候已經將個人資料保護委員會的組織法就是剛剛院長所提到的送到立法院審查那現在還沒有審查完均 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2616.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2643.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
那如果審查完畢以後我們會按照這種個人資料保護的部分做政策治安跟法治方面的跨部會的整合那還有非常謝謝大院的支持就是我們在數位身份證已經支付有8億元那也是今年的預算通過的那未來有關於數位身份證的部分的話只要在各支會或是各支保護法非常齊全的狀況之下我覺得我們往後跨部會在做這個推動的方案還是可以積極研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2643.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2663.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以數位身分證未來還是會推動只是要等我們的各支法通過相關的資安完整了以後還有資安要完備大概有預計未來部長你認為幾年內會推動其實要兩院一起合作剛剛我提到這個立法院的審查組織法還沒有完全好 那等組織法完成我會再請教請教您最後還是要拜託院長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2664.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2682.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
我們國內詐騙還是理創新高到目前來講 財損金額高達706億很多民眾都現在在想說我們現在辦案偵查的方式都還是用紙本詐騙集團現在都用很多電子AI數位化的方式所以實踐的關係是不是未來拜託院長跟部長我們在打詐的部分好 謝謝張委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2691.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2718.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
謝謝卓院長下一位請盧縣議委員質詢好就請有請院長跟原住民委員會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2722.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2742.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
請委員長背詢原明慧主委陸委員好委員長好 主委好委員好昨天我到獅子鄉去 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2745.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2769.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
帶外環委員會考察所謂我們豐港溪的一個陳情案業者在豐港溪大概種植西瓜已經將近60年的時間衍生了很多問題因為到那邊的時候發現土地責任歸屬找不到單位比如說園民會說不是他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2770.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2791.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
何川芬是說不是他的我們請國產署來講 國產署說要釐清比較可以確定的是他是屬於傳統領域傳統領域他要行使同意權的時候是不是要部落智商同意這個部分我們從這個實務運作的問題來去探討這個問題 可以嗎可以好 今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2792.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2808.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
我非常肯定原民會在這次的修法裡面有一個修正草案是強化中央主管機關在認定程序把關上面在第三條規定說如果涉及原計法第21條的時候如果有困難可以請求中央原民會協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2809.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2826.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
結果部落跟我說他們六年前就已經尋死部落統一了不過尋死部落統一到現在縣府一概沒有作為也就是說對這項決議不聞不問他們抗議不要基石 不要蒼蠅 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2828.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2856.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
已經這麼多年來沒有人去看過甚至我去開那裡的考察連縣府連派員都沒有屏東縣怎麼會變成這樣從曹啟宏縣長 潘孟安縣長到現在的周村民你以前是處長的時候都口口聲聲說安居樂業可是在我們在用這樣的一個議題的時候影響到部落族人生活這麼多年這個問題的時候縣府的態度卻是不派員我跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2858.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2884.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
這塊土地我們都知道他已經長久有在種西瓜這個大家都知道他合法成豬大概10%是合法的90%是不合法就是說完全沒有人管因為這塊土地是沒有登記的土地我們跟國產署希望我們跟縣政府跟鄉公所趕快來釐清到底這塊土地是 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2884.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2911.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
到底是研究院保留地或者是他們有兩個訴求第一個就是說你登基地沒有取得租權租約權的話你就應該不應該種植或者說去追究他的為什麼他可以種植這麼大的一個區域造成那邊的地形地貌改變河道改變然後他私自開闢道路建公寮整個河床變成是他們的家 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2912.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2933.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
就河道的改變來講我們縣府的水利局他會對河道如果主委你有空經過那裡的話去看一下可以避免我們美濃這次在講那些問題其實它一望無際你根本就看不到邊際的西瓜園是沒有經過合法租約的 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2934.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2950.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
所以我們就可以來講說這個啟動所謂的部落諮商同意如果是這樣的話是不是就可以如果之前都不認定六年前的這個決議他們都不理不睬是不是中央園民會這邊可以啟動再次啟動我們的部落同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2950.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2969.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
我們現在已經跟縣政府公所我們已經就是說我們文已經發了昨天又發了希望我們也要下去直接跟公所縣政府來談一下到底先把這個土地先給他先給他釐清 釐清之後我想是不是要原住民的諮商同意權是不是要用 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2970.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2992.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
是不是要使用也是要就個案我們再來所以我建議說園民會應該要有個專責單位像上次的咕咕山採礦的事件他動不動就諮商同意根本就還沒有到可能三個月的時間他就啟動諮商同意可是根本就沒有給族人一個喘息的空間他就是為了要部落同意結果一而再再而三的 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2993.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3014.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
智商同意那如果你有一個專責單位來幫你解決這個問題是不是這個比較困難的問題專業的問題這些那麼多利益的問題在裡面的時候是不是應該要有一個有別於行政機關一個中立機關來做目前我們就是我們會裡面自己主動的來協助公所來判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3014.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3034.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
判定這個是不是需要諮商同意權那我們也在協助縣政府這個部分也請委員放心我們都會你們現在是有一個審議小組可是我問題是你現在一而再再而三發生的時候我覺得那個專業度不夠很像沒有辦法取得我們原住民的信任是不是我是覺得你應該設立一個專責小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3036.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3062.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
我們會再更積極的來做第二個就是這次你們有修訂到說部落成員可以章程制定也就是說可能就是我們咕咕山這邊是用一戶一戶的話怎麼可以有代表性而且如果用戶籍的話可能沒有辦法代表整個文化的群體所以要把社籍這個部分還有說不要被戶籍來框架這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3062.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3091.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我希望修法通過之後部落要如何寫章程如何提供法律輔導誰能協助審查這個部分主委能不能做一個承諾說你們可以來協助這個我們都已經在未來的諮商同意辦法裡面都有把它放進去就是我們盡量開放部落來自主尤其是它可以以章程來決定它的多數解是多數解的定義這個我們都尊重部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3093.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3120.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
還有就是之前我們資本觀電案曾經發生過就是說代行召集那個自覺的會議他認為說這個不符合我們自覺的一個精神所以你們這次的第15條把它修正為第18條就是雖然保留代行召集可是也增加部落五分之一的成員不過這還不是全然的自覺它還是有一些公部門的介入所以像紅葉的地熱開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3122.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3150.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
如果是公所他是同時是申請人的話才來防止這個利益的衝突這種情形園民會是不是應該明定說代行召集這樣的一個行為是一個是最後的手段應該是民主自決是最他是priority是最先的代行召集最後那如果說代行召集這樣的案件是不是應該公開他的理由跟他的會議記錄會 我們也是會把這個你剛才講的委員講的這個我們也會放在這次的修正裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3151.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3168.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
OK 我們最後就講到諮商同意的部分是它的法律未接不足因為還是屬於管理辦法所以才會造成六年前豐林村 丹路村已經自覺了縣府不聞不問不採納也不去看到底發生了什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3169.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3196.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
所以他自覺也就是說部落自覺他的行政部門不管他的自覺有這樣的一個問題存在所以一定要把這個自覺的問題提升到法律的位階那如果說以後會有一個叫做原住民族諮商同意法這樣的一個專法你覺得你的想法是怎麼樣我跟委員報告現在這個諮商同意辦法我們有一段時間我們要先公告就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3197.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3223.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
讓部落有更多的意見進來希望我們怎麼來改這個辦法所以他要把他拉到法例的位階必須這個辦法先做修正然後看施行一段時間之後是不是還有一些覺得他位階還不夠這個我們就會報請院裡面來做決定希望他是有一個時間表而不是像現在看到的這個60年懸而未決的土地問題我想問你那個主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3224.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3246.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個瑟布利西事件發生在關旭年間就是這個逢港溪它曾經造成元漢衝突造成數人死亡當時的清朝有處理可是現在已經過了133年還是呈現這樣一個問題也就是這是一個元漢衝突的一個地域地帶所以應該要 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3247.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3275.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
很明確要快速的或者說去把這個60年懸垮味覺的問題把它提升上來來法律上面來解決返山溪也是這樣豐港溪也是這樣那因為為什麼會這樣呢因為它地處屏東縣政府的距離非常遙遠你要去稽查它不容易它釋放肥料的時間都是三更半夜你根本就沒有那個人力去稽查才會造成這樣的一個結果造成在地的居民苦不堪言 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3276.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3302.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
跟委員報告我想請你放心我們很快就會跟獅子朱鴻恩鄉長我也有密切跟他聯繫過去獅子鄉這裡我們也很清楚村長我們的丹路村長還有我們的豐林村長他們很關心這個案我們會下去我親自會下去到時候我想如果委員有時間我們一起去希望資商同意的把這個事件趕快給他落幕 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3303.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3317.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
資商同意的法律我也覺得希望能夠有一個期程至少讓主任知道說我執行的是什麼樣的法律政府可以保障我什麼 好不好接下來談論的是我們原住民族的語言教學 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3317.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3333.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
目前的问题大概大部分就是在我们目前的认证跟专职老师大概占了20%大部分都是所谓的资源老师那资源老师那么多的比例他的问题大概就是薪资低缺保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3333.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3348.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
交通風險高上次台南就發生了主業老師來回奔波在各個學校之間就發生了車禍死亡的案件然後寒暑假沒有薪資你這個部分你有沒有在思考該如何改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3348.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3371.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
我跟委員報告這個主委老師我們現在碰到的問題是有資格的現在一定要高級要不然就是優級那我們現在跟教育部也在這個跟教育部的平台上我們也建議希望教國小以下的學生不必一定要到高級或者是優級其實我們現在已經修正了 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3372.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3397.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
中高級的這個 起的中高級認證的就可以來當老師我知道 那我的意思像剛剛我給你看就薪資低缺保障 交通風險高這個含暑假沒有薪資這個部分你有沒有解決的方案或者說你有沒有思考這個以後要怎麼弄這個我們會來協助啦尤其是含暑假的時候其實也有很多的夏令營啊什麼他也可以請老師來教我們的主語 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3398.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3417.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我目前知道說交通補助大概是四千塊都會去的 四千塊我是覺得不能每個地區都一樣所以這個部分就可以調整然後他的保險是不是應該要提高比如說他一個老師上次發生事情那個老師是因為他身兼二十七所學校的主義老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3418.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3447.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
常常都會先就是這樣比如說新北市這麼大來來回回我說他交通上的安全因為如果你要叫年輕人投入這個產業結果寒暑假沒有薪資他怎麼繳房租這個部分是不是也要替他想辦法這個我們會來了解我們來解決現在有一個問題專職族語教師停滯不全地方政府開缺可是沒有人報名你覺得呢開缺沒有人來報名 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3448.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3470.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
就一樣碰到我剛剛所講的那個問題就是取得認證的老師很少就是說找不到老師啊那我們現在的重點就是我們希望做專案的培訓就是取得中高級的這個認證的人老師請他們來報名我們一年來給他訓練希望他取得這個高級 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3471.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3491.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
甚至於U級的這個認證我是希望說你有個KPI啦就是你至少說現在的缺額大概是目前的正式老師252嘛然後大概需要現在是所謂的那個資源老師大概2000位嘛你至少是不是一個說每年應該增加多少個比例啊變成專職老師不是永遠都在那邊缺然後又不知道該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3493.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3513.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
然後你沒有提供誘因給他然後就永遠缺失選在那邊四千所學校全台可是老師根本遠遠不夠這個部分應該要去想辦法來解決然後這次去年有一個台東大學四人取得交試證只有一個人獲聘這又是什麼問題你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3515.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3536.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
他們現在的名稱很多剛才講是專職主語老師現在是專任主語教師是那這個去年台中大學四個人取得教師證一個人獲聘你知道原因是什麼嗎不曉得他的原因就是學校不開圈所以有的時候也是要跟教育部門去協調因為常常就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3537.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3550.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
園民會做園民會的 教育部做教育部的縣府做縣府的語推人影就是這個問題那現在語推人影又呈現的問題是什麼呢他的人 我人在相公所上班 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3552.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3574.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
中央部會給我錢然後我的績效是縣府打的那你叫這個人是等於是相關所叫不動然後可能他要做的事情又非常多然後他要去符合縣府的規範然後錢是領中央的你知道以推人員的困境嗎我跟委員報告我很清楚公所主委的以推人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3574.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3598.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
他們很辛苦啦有的譬如像馬家鄉他有排灣族也有盧凱族可是他現在沒有盧凱族的這個主委老師我們也想辦法應該明年就說因為馬家鄉的盧凱族的主任還是很多我只希望行政層級能夠簡化流程你讓這一個人身兼很多的身份然後香鍋水不知道該怎麼用他的時候你不覺得給香鍋水困擾嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3599.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3621.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
應該就是最好就是讓他就在相公所的一個區啊然後中央來協助對不對啊縣府的話你說那個考記這個部分我是覺得如果是一些我們族裔老師互相評比我覺得這也是個很好的方式啊而且現在在研究他的什麼教材啊研究語料這些提供的這些素材啊其實讓他們已經是 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3624.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3650.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
所謂焦頭爛額了你還要讓他行政這些事情綁在那裡讓他沒有辦法去伸展所謂的文化紮根的部分所以我是覺得應該簡化行政的流程會跟縣政府這邊來做協調我相信縣政府相關好 謝謝盧委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請黃建豪委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3662.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3666.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
好 謝謝主席 主席我們一樣請行政院卓院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3678.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3702.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
黃維豪院長好 院長我想今天台股已經到兩萬八了台積電一千五看起來經濟榮景一片大好但是實際上什麼狀況實際上當然就是說我國的平均薪資薪資中位數大約在三萬八左右換句話說國人壽星階級有大概半數以下的民眾他的薪水不到三萬八所以中位數是這個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3703.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3727.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那這樣子的 這樣的族群不只是旺股興碳啊3萬8000大概存不知不合存3年才可以買台積電一張股票那更不用講買房子的問題所以我想今天主要的內政質詢我要跟院長跟部長來討論我們的住房政策我當然肯定內政部有推出所謂的婚育宅的政策那本席在去年3月的時候府上任是初畢竟我是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3729.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3748.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
年輕人 算年輕人買房子也非常辛苦所以我們對於這種婚育宅的政策去年3月我一就任立法委就提出相關的修法讓我跟院長也跟部長來分享我想在提案說明提案做很多次我們提案的這個內容就是社會住宅除了保障弱勢之外在育有未成年子女的家庭部分應該讓他額外獨立出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3751.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3760.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
用其他的方式來計算來保障或是鼓勵願意生小孩或是有生小孩的家庭他能夠入住社宅嗎因為現在有一種坊間一種說法 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3761.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3789.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我買得起房子我就養不了孩子那我養得起孩子的時候我可能就買不起房子所以在雙子之間大家變成是兩難我到底要買房子好呢還是養孩子那如果小孩不小心懷孕了那生小孩之後我可能短期內我也買不起現在的房子所以婚育宅之所以這麼重要為什麼我去年提出來那次不現在也提出來表示說這一定是大家看到的相關的問題那本席要講的是說今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3790.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3818.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們提的修正草案裡面我們希望的是說因為在原有的法規裡面在現有的法規裡面育有未成年子女兩人以上他本來是屬於弱勢的定義他定義裡面屬於弱勢被保障的部分裡面但是我們認為說生小孩這件事情跟弱勢並沒有掛鉤生小孩這件事情就算你不是弱勢你也會生小孩我們都鼓勵全方位全社會大家都要鼓勵大家多生小孩所以我想說這個部分應該要把它獨立出來我們談到說這個權益的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3820.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3838.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我們看到內政部提的婚姻戶的社宅的身分別的戶數的配比把它分成優先戶跟一般戶優先戶裡面的20%要保留婚姻戶的保障一般戶裡面也是20%的保障我要跟院長跟部長討論說這個事情沒有對錯這是立場的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3842.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3862.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我的邏輯我提案的時候我希望說所謂婚育宅應該不要排擠到本來的所謂優先戶本來的弱勢戶而是另外在本來的所謂一般戶裡面提供一定比例的保障讓生小孩有育有資歷的家庭能夠入住社會住宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3863.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3874.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
但是內政部現在提出的方案是在既有的優先戶跟一般戶裡面個別保障20%的就會預載我不知道這個政策邏輯未來還是這樣推下去嗎還是有機會來修 來調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3877.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3901.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
謝謝委員對社會住宅跟婚育宅的肯定首先跟委員報告一下有跟住宅法把50%修為是弱勢其實我們在內政委會有討論過目前大概不會朝這個方向因為我們不認為現在的婚育家庭裡面的年輕族群叫做弱勢他們只是在人生的歷程當中需要比較多社會福利政策上面的支持再來就是生多周少的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3902.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3928.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
現在的社會住宅除了直接興建以外我們推出了叫多元興建的方式也就是說我們現在在包住代管或者是其他如果有私人的企業願意協助我們來蓋這個社會住宅或者提供社會住宅的話我們未來在婚育家庭裡面這些的人就會增加目前我們到年底之前推出1022戶大概分布在五都因為台中比較沒有所以就沒有算進去待會我會給你討論到 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3929.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3958.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以很希望說台中市政府也能夠在社會住宅上面多跟中央地方多跟中央政府一起來協助再來就是剛剛所說的就是你所謂的婚育宅裡面的小孩子或者是說即將要步入結婚的年輕人來講的話我們會跟衛福部來合作也就是說他如果領有媽媽手冊結婚的家庭的話他在抽籤的比例上面會再給他比較多的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3958.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3977.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
所以就是總歸院來講說大家對於婚姻宅都是樂觀其成但是因為婚姻宅的數目就是沒有那麼多所以還是要有抽籤為原則可是婚姻宅的家庭在衛福部裡面還會有譬如說結婚的補助或是生活津貼這方面的部分我們會再繼續加強當中因為即將要開辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3978.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3992.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我們認為開辦如果有這個方向的是很多人有需求的話會再想辦法在包租代管業者裡面或者是我們財政部國土署財政部國產署所推的這個國產土地裡面再把它加重比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3992.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4020.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
部長那個一開始我想定義問題我沒有 我剛才也強調了婚育的部分我不是把它擺在弱勢裡面我也沒有修法把弱勢度提高這版本不是我的因為內政委會已經沒有所以我沒有要這個東西我也沒有提這個案子我是說弱勢就按照本來的保障沒問題但是講的說我們為了鼓勵生育為了搶救我國的少子化我們希望的是說把所謂婚育的部分另外再獨立出來其他條件做這件事情我們現在朝著這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4022.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4043.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
跟院長說明看數據就好婚姻戶如果百分之八來自弱勢戶就是說百分之四十裡面的百分之二十來自弱勢戶我擔心的是會排擠到本來的弱勢戶我提供一個數據有台中的數據參考台中現階段就是婚姻戶裡面就是婚姻戶的資格佔弱勢戶的比例它本來就已經高達百分之二十了 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4043.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4057.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
就換句話說本來所謂的優先戶或所謂弱勢戶裡面他本來有生養子女的家庭就佔了20%所以你如果在另外再去加個條件說在弱勢戶裡面要去放入所謂婚育的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4059.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4076.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
反而我覺得這個比例來講 幫助不大啦坦白講是幫助不大因為它本來就有20%的住宅我們沒有要排擠弱勢戶弱勢戶本來就在住宅法規定裡面一定要保障所以剛剛除了直接這個社會住宅的進駐以外那還有包括像包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4076.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4104.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
另外可能黃委員非常清楚就是租金補貼租金補貼在六都裡面台中市是算最高每一年大概高達五六十億以上你這個就是要準備回應我下一題做事務也有很多的幫忙部長你看下一個就是我們看到中央很認真蓋了就是所謂社宅七個案場然後這個會員戶合計今年年底會有761這個你剛剛說1000多啦但總共不管我們可能數字有落差但不管760還是你講一千出頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4106.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4133.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
在新北 高雄 台北都有很遺憾的台中真的是掛鈴這個部分是要用什麼東西來補因為我想台中那過去幾年台中地方設宅的這個興建的比例興建設宅然後優先提供給婚姻的部分目前來講台中整體的這個育有未滿6歲子女入住的比例是14.7提供很多租金補貼等等的這個是等於換句話說我要提這個就是說因為等於中央地方還有這個朝野大家都認為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4134.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4158.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
問題很嚴重 需要去解決所以大家推婚姻宅當然數字上可能有點跟不上以台中為例 你看台中真的我們台中六都是人口第二所謂的青年人口不管是20到24歲還是30到34歲就是我們從20到39歲這個區間我們在全國的排名都是第二但在這一波的婚姻宅裡面我們的數字是零 這個怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4162.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4184.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
報告委員我想不是這一波也就是說我們累計到今年年底今年年底不是明年年底是1022戶可是未來我們還是會陸陸續續推出來可能包括台中在內不管是1000戶 2600戶或者是1萬戶一定會有包括台中的部分我們希望能夠跟台中市政委一起來合作因為在這個今年新聞稿9月4號的時候你們說要這個未來三年要釋出1萬戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4186.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4210.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個一萬戶未來三年要釋出這是內政部的新聞稿那釋出這一萬戶裡面你們的分配比例是按照比例分還是按照現實狀況來分因為這一萬戶裡面有沒有台中還是說台中的看狀況報告委員要協調第一個就是大家都喜歡有這個新的社宅可以入住但是我認為說婚育家庭裡面應該也不排除包租代管 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4210.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4225.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
包租代管的部分現在業者非常努力在衝刺現在包租代管業者的戶數已經跟我們現在到年底以前有12萬戶接近相當的數目字包租代管業者的房子也是很新這是私人興建的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4226.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4249.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這就是回到這個住宅法第三條這個所謂獎勵民間興辦社宅的部分那我是說鼓勵啦因為現在真的我覺得光是靠政府蓋可能這個效率太差了我想過去的幾次質詢我也跟院長跟部長提到其實應該去落實住宅法第三條去獎勵民間興辦社宅不管用什麼方式包含講真的現在的漁務也很多或是正在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4251.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4257.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
市面上的房子也很多要怎麼樣去談條件或怎麼樣去爭取這些已經有的現成的房子它既然賣不掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4258.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4281.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
是不是有機會提供到相關的機制裡面來講讓更多的年輕人他有機會入住新的房子而且是用社宅的比例跟他的租金來入住精華地段我覺得這是未來在面對這個問題可以解決不然等你蓋我講了就算一萬戶一萬戶也就是一萬個家庭其實我們一年如果就算現在出生率很低有些數據也是趕不上 真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4282.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4310.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我願意跟你補充一下像你講的方向非常正確我們也是朝著這個方向來處理第一個空漁物的部分你不管是就環保的觀點或者空漁物要把它去化其實是非常的重要所以我們才會邀請包括包租代管業者他們有經驗的可以跟我們跟私人的這個建商來協調那這個就有兩個政策一個是鼓勵然後另外一個有沒有可能在空漁物尤其是稅制方面的給他加強之後如果你沒有去化的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4310.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4332.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
你應該釋放出來給社會住宅有需求的人群那我也知道在台中市或幾個大都會空餘物的比例非常高其實全國空餘物的比例已經接近快90萬戶左右那這些如果可以馬上釋放出來的話一定要有個政策工具那這個政策工具未來如果需要修法或者是在法治上需要大院來支持的話也希望委員能夠多多支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4333.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4354.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
會啦 我們共同努力啦我也覺得這是一個很嚴肅的問題要趕快把它解決掉所以才特別今天花了時間來跟兩位來討論這個問題好不好好 那接下來要談詐騙了我想這個詐騙的問題當然所有委員都關心這件事情但最近比較新的狀況是怎麼樣就是他對抗詐騙結果呢 他的新聞報出來就是反而被人家報復嘛可能被轉了一些小錢然後被檢舉就說這個是屬於人頭戶然後就被凍結了 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4357.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4379.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
被凍結之後當然影響到他的這個生活的必須嘛所以這個整個部分來講的話對民生對一般的民眾影響非常的大那在解除這警示流程裡面本期曾經有去所知那當然你們的說明是講說只要經調查屬實提出相關證明文件那就可以來解除那第一個到底什麼叫相關證明文件我就沒有騙人 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4379.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4395.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
我就是被人家陷害的我要怎麼證明我沒有做這件事情光是提出證明就是個很辛苦的事情另外本辦也特別去電警察局問說如果我今天有這個問題我要怎麼去提出解封的事情流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4396.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4416.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
基層的員警也不清楚我們在說什麼他沒有收到這個指令他不知道說什麼叫提供相關證明他必須看到法院的判決證明你沒問題了他才可以去行為給銀行等等的才可以去做這件事情所以在這個部分實務上他們沒辦法面對啊就說今天雖然說你們內政部的高層或者警察局的高層覺得說只要 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4416.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4429.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
提供相關證明調查屬實不用等到司法判決就可以這麼做但實務上基層不管是銀行也好員警也好他沒辦法面對這件事情他不敢做這件事情所以我想問一下院長或是部長這個問題到底要怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4431.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4448.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
謝謝院長那個謝謝委員對於我們基層同仁非常的肯定但是為了跟委員報告有關於打炸的部分牽涉到的部會非常的多您現在所說的解除這個市井的這個流程警示的流程的話牽涉到第一個檢調單位第二個是金管會那我們也都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4449.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4472.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
當時要把它變成是個警示帳號的時候也是經過一定的程序所以我們的警員是按照程序來處理這第一個然後第二個我們也會認為說因為就是有這樣的警示的帳號所以現在我們在處理打炸的時候包括被詐騙的人數或者是被詐騙的財損其實有下降到百分之二十幾甚至百分之四十幾左右所以這個一定會造成很多所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4473.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4487.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
疑似被詐騙的這個警示帳號呢有一些不方便的地方那怎麼樣縮短這個流程然後不要影響到法定的程序我想我們的打詐中心會再跟金管會或者是檢調單位來協商看怎麼樣處理會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4489.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4508.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
院長、部長,這個我提供一個參考,今年我想新加坡提出一個所謂的Protection from Scams Bill的一個打詐的方案,那當然它的整個立法流程非常的嚴格,但它裡面有一個精神是什麼?就是說所謂的警示帳戶被列為一個是可能被騙的帳戶,一種當然就是騙人的帳戶嘛, |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4508.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4527.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那它列為被騙的帳戶的部分它有一個做法是說我先凍結大部分的大筆交易但是你的日常所需民生所需還是可以正常運作比如說繳水電費比如說繳學費這種民生的必需品民生必需的這些消費它雖然被列為警示但是它在這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4528.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4546.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
他雖然發出限制力但他實務上他在日常生活不會受到太大的衝擊那等到司法流程確定他有罪那當然就是把整個凍結嘛整個就有罪嘛那如果無罪那回復之後正常但在日常的運作他不會受到影響我不知道未來我在修法上有沒有可能往這個方向來走 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4547.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4573.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我會把委員的這樣建議然後轉達給法務部或是轉達給金管會來了解因為大家都知道有警示賬戶的話其實保障他的錢不會再繼續被詐騙但是他自己要用的時候就變得有點困擾那這兩者之間的權衡可能還是要按照我們法律上面的見解來做處理那但是委員的對選民的關心我們會把這個部分請檢調單位或者金管會看能不能做權衡的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4573.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4582.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
是委員在打仗的這個方向我想過跟不及都容易引起人民的反感但這個時候我認為要稍微過一點點好 謝謝黃委員 謝謝總委員長下一位請麥玉珍委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4621.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4624.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
所以主席有請卓院長請卓院長備詢麥委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4639.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4653.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
院長好 今天我要代表100萬的新住民向行政院長申訴的是新住民基本法三讀通過已經一年了實施日期 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4654.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4681.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
未定依照新住民基本法第4條中央映射新住民發展署依法行政是政府的義務我今年2月就正式發函給內政部移民署要他們提供籌備資料結果完全沒有回應到了10月我再度發函結果呢一樣沒有會議記錄沒有時程沒有預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4682.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4707.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
沒有決議就幾張摘要還有空話這不是行政透明這是行政敷衍行政院是最影響國家發展的機構開會連討論內容都寫不出來這是召集人的失能還是主管的無能他們坐在冷氣房吃飯領薪水就好啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4709.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4733.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
這不是行政怠惰這是對百萬新住民的忽視與歧視新住民不是次等公民我再次請教行政院長你要繼續裝傻裝聾還是要真正面對新住民的期待各部會故意拖延就是對人民的不尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4734.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4753.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
忽視法律藐視制度依法我們有權利要求行政院必須守法負責立即行動落實新住民基本法院長你要去研辦你做到嗎你能做到你覺得他們是這樣這麼忽視 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4757.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4773.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
報告委員內政部在去年的九月就已經成立了籌備小組那目前這個他在今年的十月也幫將這個草案報到院裡面來因為現在有人事總署在會商各個部會跟機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4774.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4788.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
希望能夠有進一步的進度如果我們有進一步的確定的進度跟具體的結果之後我們就會進行下一步的程序這個過程可以跟委員再報告目前的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4789.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4811.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
你们的进度 再来看 就是你们的进度你们的筹备小组从第四次到第七次都在讨论人力配置 请问结果是什么为什么连续三次的会议还在原地踏步 人力的配置有那么困难吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4812.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4826.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
謝謝籌備小組還是根本沒有人在做我還沒有叫你回答你先不回答你們10月送來的資料看起來好像是有在進度但是裡面沒有內容沒有方向也沒有結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4828.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4851.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
这不是行政效率的低落这简直是行政怠慢就是很烂很差这个回应的方式不只是傲慢还敷衍了国会还更是糟蹋了新住民基本法这样子的回应啊你说的多少个月什么的就是这样子的回应是这样吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4856.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4872.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我剛剛說過我很謝謝籌備小組非常的慎重開了很多次的會議慎重就是這樣 開很多會是這樣所以整個行政院開會都是這樣就是很慎重籌備小組很慎重開了多次的會議今年十月 慎重開會就是這幾張你看到的就是這幾張 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4874.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4902.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
就是慎重開會法律已經通過了總統也公告了依法就是要該成立新住民發展署但是到現在在研議中不只是在研議這個是行政的疏失甚至可能是故意違法我今天是要來跟院長申訴的要求行政院要給新住民還有國會還有我們台灣社會一個交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4902.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4923.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
到底是哪個部會在拖延要站出來負責新住民等的不是一個口號要依法要應有的尊重還有行動但是你們看到的就是你們整個行政院的開會都是這樣這不是行政院的開會是籌備小組的開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4924.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4951.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
所以你的管理疏失嘛你管理的行政院不是行政院開會小組開會就允許這樣嗎一開始就告訴委員這個案子今年的10月送到行政院現在人事總處正在會商各部會中這是最新的進度委員要更新這個最新的進度最新的進度就是這裡不是是這裡這裡哪裡嘛就是今年10月送到行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4952.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4976.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
今年10月送到行政院 從去年8月就是總統公告了三讀通過 今年這一年內政部長在我們協商也答應一年內就實施日期 現在已經超過一年了所以我再請教我們的院長你覺得整個開會就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4977.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4998.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
小組開會也是這樣子你應該聽最新的進度最新的進度在哪裡我現在講第三次 今年的10月已經算到10月要的 這個是10月要的來 10月的 今年10月要的今年10月已經送到行政院行政院人事總署在會商各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4999.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5014.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
一旦有具體的進度就會往前走這是最新的進度那個已經是過程了那個已經是過程了進度在這裡進度在哪裡嘛今年的十月十月的 我這個十月要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5016.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5031.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
10月要的資料 今年10月要的資料就給我這樣報告委員 你現在看到了這個籌備小組的會議是我們內政部的層級那剛剛院長跟你回應的是行政院所以內政部長的層級就是開會就這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5034.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5057.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
沒有內容就是這樣嗎 這是你的成績報告委員 您這樣子的資料有一點不太一樣不太一樣 但我們跟你們要的資料你們給我們的那你要不要聽我回答二月跟十月跟內政部跟移民署要的資料就這樣百分之百要的資料就這樣 十月份給我的但是我們有最新進度要跟委員補充報告看委員需不需要知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5059.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5079.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
什麼要補充補充什麼我10月份要的就是這個你怎麼補充補充報告現在這個時候我們立法院現在已經11月了我們要的明確的就是說新住民基本法什麼時候實施日期還有我們按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5080.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5102.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
就是第一个新住民基本法我们的实施日期什么时候公布第二个依法基本法第四条的中央设施新住民发展署组织法行政院草案现在在哪里第三新住民基本法什么时候成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5103.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5125.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
是沒有人負責還是沒有在運作主管單位無能還是問題出在哪裡但是我們看到的就是籌備小組的債要我們要了從2月到10月就給我們這樣子的債要還要開會的底次3到4次3到4次就是這樣子的債要 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5127.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5146.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
這樣子的話我們感覺就是你們在開會還是在拖延最新的進度我已經報告三次或許委員沒有辦法理解我請部長再說一次最新的進度跟委員報告一下我們移民署的組織法的修正草案跟新住民發展署的組織法草案已經送到行政院來審議 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5147.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5165.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那接下來步驟就是剛剛院長所指示的他會要求這個人事行政總處要邀集各部會那目前我們的協商機制裡面有一個組織法內政部組織法現在是由大院的吳宗憲委員現在在那個委員會在那個做政黨協商是我們次長出席的 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5168.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5188.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
不是現在啦到協商的時間你都不記得11點今天11點不是現在不是現在我已經在立法院已經說三讀通過附帶決議就是70個第三機構到71附帶前 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5190.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5216.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
協議就是新住民發展署你也不知道所以這個今天我為什麼要跟院長申訴說你們的部門去開會這樣子讓我們感覺整個行政院開會就是這樣整個行政院你們你的部會下面開會就是這樣都沒不到硬做只有標題沒有內容也沒有時間也沒有決議如果你說你們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5217.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5232.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
协议今天是我们拜托我们吴仲先我们的召委今天要开不是你们要开是你们也没有重视这一块如果再重视我再请教你在我们的总预算里面 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5233.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5253.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
也完全沒有新住民發展署的成立的預算預算裡面完全沒有還有你們說開會已經討論組織人力還有按照理說應該我們的債要裡面一定要有薪水辦公廳社或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5254.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5273.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
資訊系統宣傳或者業務推廣的完整的評估結果一毛錢都沒有編這樣的籌編會議就連一個基本的經費概算都沒有這是嘗試不足還是根本沒有打算成立行政院的職責在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5275.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5293.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
就是依法行政 就是在一個公文就是做做樣子 給我們的資料 這樣就好了嗎我的常識是 沒有組織就沒有預算說得很好 但是你什麼時候新住民基本法實施日期公布 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5293.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5309.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那現在這個組織要先送到行政院基本法的組織基本法公佈日期什麼時候你公佈日期這個組織法的草案今年的10月已經送到法當沒有公佈啊 你公佈嘛日期什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5309.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5330.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
草案才送到行政院10月才送到行政院新住民基本法去年7月16號就通過了所以現在要通過一個組織法組織法的草案今年10月才送到行政院組織法是我們去推你們完全沒有版本你們完全沒有版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5331.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5358.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
要看哪一個組織法是內政部的組織法還是新住民發展署的組織法也沒有版本完全沒有版本到現在為止我沒有看到你們一個字現在在行政院審議當中剛剛院長已經有三次跟您回應所以我今天問你你才說有嘛但是我們到現在為止我們還沒有看到啊所以我要的是說新住民基本法法律通過總統的公告了但是什麼時候給我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5360.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5387.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
就是法律的執行日期草案送到行政院的時候人事總署在匯集各部會的基金新住民基本法我問了新住民基本法我今天是最後一次跟你對話所以呢要問你要講出的明確的執行日期要一切準備的法制跟配套完全合適妥善之後才可以實施啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5388.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5404.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
新著名基本法要實施日期新著名組織法我們在協商兩回輸啦還有內政部的組織法就另外第三個你搞不清楚嗎行政院長委員請你不要那麼情緒好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5407.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5423.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
我跟你講的事實沒辦法不情緒我們很心痛也很憤怒因為一年了今年十月已經送來了已經講第四次了你講第四次是那個新住民組織法我講的新住民基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5424.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5452.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
一切要把這個整個法制配套完成之後我們才決定說總統公佈是一空的啊總統公佈是你不會聽總統公佈的法例是不算數的施行日期行政院會決定施行日期行政院決定你講對了14日期行政院決定但是你沒有決定啊我們要的是你的決定啊這個基本法下面很多的作用法相關的法制配套完整之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5452.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5473.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們來決定說如何施行法沒有決定一旦施行沒有其他配套將無法施行新住民基本法沒有實施日期所以新住民組織法你們沒有半個字今天才要跟我講你說有所以10月就送來了怎麼會沒有半個字沒有看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5474.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5488.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
到現在為止我們沒有看到我也沒有看到要等到人事總數審完之後我們要的資料就是這樣子所以院長我希望我們新住民等的不是一季會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5491.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5520.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
會研議或者一份就是會議在要我們等的是一個依法行政願意負責願意行動的政府新住民基本法實施日期新住民發展署成立時間我們在這裡正式要求行政院一個月內提出明確的時程表讓中央與地方依據訂定的具體政策讓人民看到結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5520.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5540.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
而不是一個推託或者口號這不是請求這是依法依物我們等到的新住民在選舉的時候你們就想到新住民不要讓支持者讓我們感受到的政府的心寒對政府的心寒只是一個空話我們要的依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5556.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5581.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
謝謝麥委員謝謝卓院長下一位請黃仁委員質詢有請卓院長 林省部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5583.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5605.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
請左院長背詢內政部長背詢黃國元好好 院長早 黃國元好部長早討論一下我們在政府落實憲法的143條我們對於國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5609.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5633.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
對於土地分配的整理因應扶持自耕農及自行使用土地人為原則之土地政策自從1948年起曾有三個階段陸續辦理工地販林第一個階段就是1948年自1976年的9月面積13萬8千餘公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5642.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5669.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
成林農戶達28萬6千餘戶第二階段是1989年在專案的範例以專案方式辦理台中縣南斗縣等多處土地範例面積1萬1千餘公頃成林農戶8千餘戶在第三個階段在1994年的續辦工地範例一國有耕地 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5670.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5683.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
耕地放嶺實施辦法並計劃在2003年12月底辦理完成但後來在921政災之後在桃枝豐臺 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5687.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5705.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
颱風、土石流重創臺灣後,行政院前面檢討工地放領政策,從2002年到2008年陸續停辦各項工地放領到至今。我想請教,停擺了18年之後,工地放領政策即將重啟。 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5707.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5718.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
行政院近日拍板以宜蘭縣蘇澳鎮朝陽里大南澳地區約80公頃的台拓 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5719.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5741.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
排拓地作为示范区重新开启工地放映预计在三个月内完成放映作业请问一下院长这一次的示范未来将评估是否扩大至全国1700公顷的国有地平地耕地 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5744.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5769.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
這個問題是不是未來事辦成功之後後續會不會普遍全國的1700公頃的土地謝謝委員基於現在有多數的土地由國人長期的承租也有養殖或者是耕作的事實為了這樣的歷史上所遺留下來的問題我們重新的檢驗過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5770.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5795.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那您剛剛所提到的這個台拓地在大南澳地區因為它已經進行了某一個程序跟政府之間達到某一個一定程度的互相的理解但是因為某種因故把它停下來了我們想從這個部分先來試行能不能續行來辦理它的後續從這個地方開始那會累積我們現在跟其他 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5796.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5820.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
下幾個階段的一些經驗那這個台拓地現在在辦理的過程當中我們也一直在跟地方做很多細節上的一些討論那這個部分內政部可以再做作品說明總之這是一個事半的經驗如果可行我們可以考慮的把它放大部長你來回應一下好了因為這個前一段時間為了這個工地放年也弄得沸沸揚揚在各縣市裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5821.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5839.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那你们行政院也回应了在三个月内完成这个放你的一个作业那未来普及到整个全国那这个也是全国所需而必须行政院有正面的回应 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5839.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5868.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
內政部你們也有正面的回應要給我待會請內政部來回應一下因為本席要求行政院重啟工地範圍的政策是近日院長的回應將以賴總統的指示訂定的目標時程把它完成請問一下我們的部長在這個目標要多久一年兩年三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5870.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5894.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
謝謝委員的關心總統跟院長有多次指示包括內政部還有財政部現在對於所謂的工地放領的部分我們在進行的是清查的作業因為試射到甚至是五六十年以前的部分但是有幾個指示的要點第一個如果是牽涉到國土保安或者是自然保育或者是不能夠觸犯到原住民基本法 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5895.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5896.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
你現在回答我這是人民的財產 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5923.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5945.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
但經過這麼多年的沒有辦法處理我想今天我問你都已經分了三個階段到你們現在的執政也希望在工地放零在政治上趕快執行你看看你們未來執行一年兩年我剛才已經講了還是五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5945.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5974.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
你現在正面的回答我這個目前的時程還沒有辦法確定因為現在我們的指示就是在宜蘭的這個地方大南澳的地方的台地先來做試辦那試辦的過程當中會有我們要申請的人他所提出的這些不管是文件是否是合法或者是合憲或者是合規所以必須要有一個審議委員會要地方政府一起協助才有可能三個月內已經要回應都已經在做實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5975.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5991.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
做示範在宜蘭這些地方地區我想給國人知道到底你們的作業是不是要盡快你能不能回應要五年內還是要兩年內 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5992.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6014.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我們現在要的是這個答案我們會把這樣的時程報到行政院讓行政院做綜合決定因為剛剛我跟委員有報告過不是只有內政部還有包括財政部這種踢皮球的一些方式不是你們現在要做的你要獲得人民的能夠認同你們行政院內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6015.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6026.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
就是應該要徹徹底底改變過去你們在對人民的承諾而且倒不清楚現在我們要你是 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6027.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6050.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
要清楚 因為你們重新要做嘛重新既然要獲得人民的肯定跟認同你要讓人民對你們重啟信心嘛是不是 院長你來回答如果這個期程裡面要一年 兩年 三年 五年你回答一下 能夠盡速在幾年內希望能夠在工地放你的作業裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6051.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6067.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
是不是盡快也讓人民對你們執政有信心嘛好不好因為我剛剛跟委員報告現在這個大南澳台拓地是在試辦把過去的程序把它完備過來所以他其中牽涉到很多的問題比方說 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6068.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6093.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
權力怎麼證明人民怎麼申請年限怎麼做基準再來地價如何計算到目前都還在試算當中所以我認為這件事辦至少要給一年的時間如果這一年時間做得出來以後我們才能推算以後的時間你有答案了嗎一年內把宜蘭這個地區的趕快去做完成另外我希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6094.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6109.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
把这些作业流程因为它既有的都有已经在三个阶段里面在过去所碰到的问题都已经历历在目你们从哪一个地方来节短补偿这个就是你们的经验 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6110.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6124.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
能夠趕快不要再走回頭路然後再研究在什麼本來三個階段裡面都已經有了嘛所以作為你們的佐證作為你們可以走捷徑的路那完成這樣的人民需求嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6125.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6154.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
好不好每一個階段 每一個年代已經處理過的方式 程度 內容都不盡相同所以要重新來看所以我們希望把宜蘭這個當作一個示範如果完成之後才來規劃未來有一個一套的標準 統一的做法你都講了嘛 一年內那就趕快好不好一年內是說宜蘭這件事情對對對我說至少要一年 我們盡量把它完成針對我們花蓮災後慰問服務站的啟動我們碰到了一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6156 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6171.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
碰到了問題麻煩再重新嚴查到底是你們行政院內政部所下達的還是地方的行政院的分院搞不清楚狀況很多的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6173.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6195.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
栽负要申请你们相关曾经的顾问所表示的只要是认定居住的事实店面也沿随都会重宽认定的补助但是本席接获了很多族人无信的先生的反应及多数的复述 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6196.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6218.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
那他復籍不在籍但是那個經過村長的證明確實他是從小到大在那個地方老家在那個地方那因為工作因素舉家了到都會區這是常常碰到的尤其現在在都會區裡面的原住民已經將近達到55%55%所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6223.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6250.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
當然他們戶籍為了地方的福利政策那把戶籍遷到這個都會區但是老家都還在那個地方受到這一次的災區而影響他的一些住的地方那他們按照曾經的顧問所講的申請的程序都按照這個地方的分院竟然告訴他說你不在一起的 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6250.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6268.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
就不能申請這個補助的36萬對嗎 院長他應該要有一個證明的依據所以你們要嚴查到底是行政院分院花蓮分院是怠惰還是不知道這個事你們要嚴查 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6271.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6288.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這是人民的財產跟生命的財產他們需要你們的關愛跟補助他們需要這些但是碰到了這個困難奇怪上下一心本來你們行政院要這樣做結果上下分心 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6289.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6310.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
不一樣的政策想法我們請當時的一站式服務的平台再去做考量但是他一定要有戶籍證明或者他必須要居住的事實如果都沒有的話你無法證明說這個曾經的顧問都已經講得很清楚只要是你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6311.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6334.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
你的住宿是在這裡經過村長的認定之後然後得以補住那為什麼地方分院搞不清楚狀況然後行政院的好意內政部的好意變成地方分院搞不清楚狀況造成了地方的困擾報告委員我們來查明清楚一下就是剛剛院長所指示的有戶籍證明或是有居住事實因為他這個補助是根據家戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6336.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6363.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
我們不對個案做評析但是個案可以拿給我們我們來評估一下我們花蓮光復馬太安光復的太帕朗很多的災民讓你們很清楚今天上下沒有一心你們的好運下面的分數並沒有按照你們的地方來做一個實施的政策造成我們需要你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6364.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6374.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
真正的關愛的時候達不到這樣的一個目的所以你們要清查 個案並不影響整體的政策我們都是從寬來建立委員都會鼓勵當初這一陣子的服務不是曾經德政委一個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6375.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6403.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
100多人在裡面服務 各單位都有而且大家也非常有效率你把他說成是騙人 這個真的不好他是行政政策顧問 已經代表你們講話了那你們的好意有了 地方搞不清楚狀況所以我們來查明啊 檢查一下好不好哪一個帶多的 哪一個說的我們也會查出 那個負數的 那些投訴的人我們請他調查出來 到底是誰講的你們要嚴查嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6404.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6423.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
對不對 不是說領了薪水不做事哪有這種行政觀念我們都很辛苦在做事 報告委員沒有領薪水不做事這樣對我們一站式服務的中央地方的公務人員是一種不太好的 不禮貌的我替臺花蓮光復的災民替他們說一個情 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6424.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6448.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
為什麼 因為我當下在10月24號我就到那個地方進駐也感謝台糖的協助能夠讓我有一個救災的服務中心在那個地方我23號 10月23號我就在那個地方我現場看得非常清楚我在那個地方看了 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6449.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6477.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
真的情何以堪整個像一個原子彈炸掉的一個鄉鎮土地它的自己的農地覆蓋了將近兩層樓房子覆蓋了沙堆將近一層樓以上整個街上整個都是情不堪真的是像一個災區我們在這個地方我10月17號才收攤 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6479.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6497.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那你們行政院有發布11月18號應該就要回來了但是我們在那個地方還有很多的農地到現在沒有辦法處理因為他的堆砂已經在兩層樓以上他沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6521.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6526.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
謝謝黃委員 謝謝左委長下一位請高金素美委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6542.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6547.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
謝謝主席我們有請卓院長還有園民會曾主委謝謝卓院長還有曾主委 備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6559.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6581.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
委員長 鄭主委早安我今天要想跟你們談的是新版的財化法通過之後統籌分配稅款增加到8841億元這是地方財政改革的一大進步但是在行政院修訂補助辦法改變了一般性補助款的定義之後一切都變了掉了 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6582.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6610.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
今天我要指出的是修法後的一般性補助款的執行管理的機制我覺得非常的鬆散這會讓弱小的部會還有弱勢的地區會被限制邊緣化而今天我談的最典型的例子就是園民會跟五十五個園鄉今天我就以園民會你們明年度所編列的所謂的一般性補助款來就教曾竺偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6611.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6614.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
圓明會在明年的預算裡面首次 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6615.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6641.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
編列了一般性補助款25.99億元然而這25.99億元卻不是園民會你們新增的預算是從過去園民會的所謂的計劃型補助還有公務預算編列的科目移過來的這包含了什麼基本設施維持費6.4億部落特色道路2.4億還有部落聯絡道路的養護經費0.8億 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6644.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6658.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
曾主委我想請教你請你簡短的說什麼是一般性補助款一般型補助款跟競爭型補助款是不一樣的就是一般型本來就是在補助各地方地方政府公所也好縣政府也好一般性的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6658.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6677.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
好 我講得更具體一點好了你們現在行政院今年修的一般性補助款的補助範圍限於具經常性 普及性 基本設施或維運性質最重要的是財政均衡這些項目對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6677.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6693.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
一般性補助款撥到縣市政府之後怎麼使用我們中央控管的力道是有限的而縣市政府往往會因為施政的順序考量他會投入原鄉或者是偏鄉的預算就會變少 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6694.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6718.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
民國91年本席就任立法委員以後我開始針對原鄉長年遭到制度性的忽視治理體系的失靈的現象我在這裡提出我的質詢還有要求經過二十幾年的制度調整還有建立我們終於讓原民會在預算上變成了一個可以講說是正常的部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6719.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6735.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
而其中最核心的價值就是行政院讓園民會的預算可以例外處理在台灣省政府的年代園鄉的各項建設都是由省府編列預算還有執行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6736.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6752.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
原鄉的部落道路 鄉道 縣道 省道都歸公路局來主管原鄉的農路還有治山防洪這些工程歸農林廳的三地農牧局來管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6753.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6775.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
但是這些原鄉的基礎建設在動審之後經費預算全部移撥到地方縣市政府而省府每年應該要給原鄉的9億的農路還有19億的鄉道養護的預算行政院全部化為所謂的一般性補儲款下放給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6776.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6798.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
而這些過去挹注在原鄉的省府預算中央部會就不再編列了於是地方縣市政府拿到這些經費之後它會基於選票的考量預算往往不會投入到地廣人稀的原鄉再加上原來省屬單位的專業的人力也移撥到了中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6799.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6810.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
而地方政府在沒有人力沒有專業的狀況可以執行政策的時候這就造成了原鄉連續數年的政策空窗期 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6812.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6838.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
立法院在民國98年的預算審查的報告也非常明確的指出從民國90年起原屬省府專案的農路灌溉管路的改善經費改為一般性補助款由縣市政府來統籌而由於地方財政還有人力不足因此農路灌溉水路長年無法維修這是我們審預算的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6839.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6857.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
審查報告明確的指出在98年的時候而當時的行政院長游錫昆他說了一句話他說地方能做的我們中央就不要做這句口號讓原鄉的政策空轉了五年我們回顧一下民國93年的七二水災還有愛麗風災 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6858.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6884.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
他重創了中北部的泰雅族地區特別是位處石門水庫集水區的新竹縣的尖石鄉還有桃園縣的復興區部落道路因為我們的農路還有動損之後連續五年沒有經費養護而這些在風災之中被摧毀殆盡因而阻斷了我們的族人的逃生還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6885.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6906.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
救灾的路线而石门水库集水区的国有林斑地更发生了大规模的土石崩塌这也造成了石门水库的淤积也造成了桃园地区连续停水了20天而当时的行政院就开始急救张推动了所谓的八年八百亿的水患治理特别条例 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6906.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6924.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
但是行政院的版本卻僅僅針對下游編列預算來整治它完全忽視了上中上游必須要整體治理最後在這裡經過本席的提案才終於甄編了上游跟的 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6924.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6944.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
還有中油的治山防災每年20億8年是160億的經費來逐年解決了北太亞部落還有其他原鄉的土石流的問題主委這就是原住民族面對所謂的一般性補助款帶來的血淋淋的教訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6945.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6969.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我們沒有經常性的預算來改善原鄉的基礎設施只好用所謂的特別預算來重建部落主委您是資深的公務人員了動損之後原鄉我講的這些慘痛的經歷您也經歷過而現在你身為園民會的主委對於這個所謂的一般性的補助款您有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6970.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6992.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我跟委員報告我們這個114年大概是32.38億那115年我們是編26億就差了6.3億這主要就是要配合中長城的公共建設計畫分配的額度那我們會調整補助那未來我們希望我們還要在延伸還要再增體 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6993.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7022.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
細題一些工界的計畫簡單講我們會再補題一些計畫少的這個6.3億我們會再補更重要一點就是這幾年來工所其實最迫切需要做的就是我們現在正在做重建的這些條例那我們大概有40億的機會要用在原鄉謝謝你 重建條例他是有年限的而且他是有地區性的好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7023.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7024.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
謝謝您在這裡的補充說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7025.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7054.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
其實我聽不太清楚沒關係事後我會再請您來補充說明本席就任這立委的23年來其實我最重要的工作就是在重建動省之後原住民的政策還有我們的預算我記得我剛就任的時候也就是民國91年原民會為了要改善部落道路每年都要去跟公路總局低頭要經費預算從所謂的1億或2億不等 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7055.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7074.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
沒有法定的預算科目也沒有執行的方案而部落的這些道路的建設就處在不確定的狀況之下有沒有經費可以做然後一直在不確定同時期部落的排水溝還有擋土牆這些基礎建設也是完全停擺的 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7075 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7098.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
也因為這麼樣子所以96年初在本席的陪同之下原住民族地區有55位鄉鎮市長到行政院拜訪蘇貞昌院長在蘇院長的支持之下每年開始編列了5.9億的基本設施維持費直接撥付到鄉公所讓鄉公所它能夠維持最基本的 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7099.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7119.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
部落的基礎建設的運作而同樣在民國96年的時候也在這個地方北溪對面站著是已故的張俊雄院長我在這裡質詢他我們原住民的道路的預算非常的短缺當時的張院長他傾聽民意他也採納了我的建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7119.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7138.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
他立刻做了三點的決議交辦給行政院的各部會也請院長您聽一下第一個決議是96年將2.7億的道路預算保留延續執行第二個是97年除了編列9900萬的預算之外不足的部分他承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7139.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7149.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
可以動用第二預備金來執行第三個是園鄉的部落道路預算總需求是29.9億97年開始要折承園民會以4年的中程計畫30億逐年來編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7157.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7186.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
解決需求的問題這就是張俊雄前院長令人非常尊敬跟敬佩的而部落的道路養護1.7億的預算怎麼來的呢也是本席在110年我站在這裡質詢當時是再一度做行政院長的蘇院長他在聽完我的質詢之後他也認為道路沒有養護的預算這非常的不公平也不合理 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7186.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7203.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
所以在110年核定的這一筆預算從112年起開始編列我以上講的這幾項重要的原住民的政策是本席跟歷任的行政院長透過質詢還有政策溝通我們為原鄉建立了預算的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7204.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7232.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
例外處理情形為的是什麼為的是要保障園民會的預算不受政治的干擾實質有效率的直接到達原住民部落在這裡我要再請教曾主委今年度的特色道路預算多少特色道路應該是跟去年差不多沒有刪多少而且我們那個基本設施維持會那6億多都沒有刪掉主委我提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7233.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7248.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
今年的特色道路叫做計劃型的補助是6.9億而明年的你們叫做一般性補助2.4億少了4.5億我還再請教你部落聯絡道路的養護今年是多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7251.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7264.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
你回答不出來沒關係今年你們叫做計劃型的補助1.7億而明年又叫做一般性的補助了0.8億這活生生少了0.9億 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7265.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7295.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
院長您看到的這個數據這是園民會明年道路的預算我們不管它是編列所謂的計劃型補助還是一般性補助我們的特色道路打了4折道路養護的預算打了5折我再怎麼加總園鄉的道路預算明年度就活活少了5億啊還有另外一件事情是明年一般性的補助款為什麼只有園民會跟客委會必須要由行政院你們主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7295.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7298.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
而其他的部會不用我請院長回答這兩個問題謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7300.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7329.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
第一個剛剛主委有提到過一些交通的建設未來中長期它是逐年發生的我們會在未來的一般性補充當中來編列預算所以明年看起來或許會有一些金額上的減少這是中長期的另外有一些是必須因為財政收支方法調整之後新修法之後中央跟地方必須就地方政府的財政機制來做分擔有些部分是地方政府要去負擔的 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7330.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7350.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
這兩個部分跟委員先說明不過剛剛委員有提到一點你說當初省府的業務關於原住民撥給地方 地方不願執行所以省府後來把這個業務都撥回中央了那如果這樣的話在財政收受方法的時候就應該保留部分在中央但現在完全又跑到地方去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7351.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7361.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
院長我剛剛已經講到了變成一般性補助款的時候它會變成縣市政府的考量這是第一個第二個財政如果不好的話他們也不會放到 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7362.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7389.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
人少的地區這就是我20幾年來在這邊跟歷任的行政院長爭取的部分所以你現在又回歸到給地方政府歷任行政院長在財化法的理念下是有這個財力的未來是沒有這個財力的必須要做例外來處理你如果再用一般性補助款給地方政府我們會少了非常多的狀況就是我剛剛以上提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7389.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7402.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那我呈示一句話請委員我們共同來支持未來行政院提出的財化法版本你的財化法版本就是我剛剛已經唸給你們聽了未來我就沒有辦法像張院長 蘇院長最重要的是財政均衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7409.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7424.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
請問一下縣市政府如果錢不夠的話他會把他的錢放在人少的偏鄉或原鄉地區嗎所以這不公平又會開始了院長最後我要再提醒我今天不想跟你吵架我是在跟你談論 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7425.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7448.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
在整體原住民自治之前我們不管在預算或者是政策上我們都必須要例外來處理否則所謂的民主原則就是經費往人多的地方去而沒有財源的原鄉或者偏鄉將成為永遠的窮鄉我完全贊成所以錢要保留在中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7449.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7461.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
所以一般性補助款不適用於院在園民會第二個問題你沒有回答為什麼園民會的一般性補助款和柯委會就必須要行政院同意為什麼好 謝謝高津素美委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7476.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7483.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
謝謝卓院長 報告院會休息十分鐘休息之後繼續進行質詢 現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8106.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8109.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
好 因為現在繼續開會請黃委員三三質詢謝謝主席 我請卓院長請卓院長備詢黃委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8135.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8163.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
非常早安我想今天大家都非常關心新興安貸款大概從去年您上任之後其實有一陣亂流這是2023年8月當時賴清德總統為了年輕人的選票當然還有建商他們推出的所謂新興安貸款放寬了貸款額度還有期限以及利息補貼經過一年多了這些狀況目前為止現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8164.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8191.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
在央行第七波信用管制之下其實這兩個政策是相互矛盾的所以現在的問題在於說您可以看到居住正義是賴總統的政見也是您的立場 對嗎我們共同維護我講維護也是一樣的但是居住正義不能只做一半現在的問題就在於您看到新青安貸款開始上路其實我們的房價已經高漲了15.4% |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8193.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8217.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
也就是說我們在同時讓年輕人享受有房子的情況下我們的房價反而不跌反漲而且如果從民進黨執政的話房價是漲了33%所以院長你對所謂的居住正義在您的認知裡面房價漲到33%新清安之後又漲了15%您的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8218.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8244.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
房價的漲幅其實因素很多不能單就一個因素來做討論所以我們的政見是讓房價更高然後讓年輕人拿更多的補貼是這個意思嗎年輕人第一次購屋的時候能夠讓他有可以用在自住的用途上我們要讓年輕人有機會拿到房子所以我們給他一千萬的額度所以當時本來要八百萬的房子後來大家都改賣到一千萬建商 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8244.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8271.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
荷包滿滿但是年輕人我們有共同看到這個問題所以我們去年就做了一些管制所以在我們提出質詢之後財政部開始查查到了人頭戶查到了出租戶所以查到了一千多戶要回了1.3億的補助這個是要給院長肯定但是同時民間團體也查到了超過50歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8273.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8283.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
年收入超過300萬以上的比較高所得的人也同時拿到了行情安補助院長這是怎麼回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8284.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8306.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
我們當然是當初是青年安心因為我們沒有排富所以我們讓很多年收入到300萬的人也拿到了刑青安補助這個政策是不是要檢討一下當初也應該在年齡上應該要有所謂的考量所以刑青安在明年就會實際就完成現在問題就來了明年7月就到期了會不會延長 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8307.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8336.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
不會有相同的方式延長會有相同的方式延長會有新的方式延長我們有另外的方式來針對青年的居住正義做不同的考量但是我覺得現行的方式應該檢討現行的方式我剛剛講人頭戶還有出租戶千萬不可以再發生不是錢給了 貸了之後再去追回來這才太丟臉了因為核貸的時候都沒搞清楚第二個高所得甚至高年紀當然他沒有房子他應該有這個機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8337.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8354.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
但是所得上面的確是讓比較高所得的人也得到了相對的優惠補助這的確不是居住正義本來想要達到的目標我們會納入考量是 如果你真的要新方法就要把高所得還有所謂的高年齡他本來就是比較社會經濟優勢的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8355.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8382.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那新清安補助我們應該是當時的立法一旨是讓更多的年輕人有機會這兩個應該是要重新在你的所謂的新方法所以新方法是在明年七月會出來嗎我們會提早來設想我們必須設定更周延的條件更周延的監管的方式我們不要讓國人誤用了這個政策的美意所以我們要嚴謹的來看待我們一年是拿入宅基金補貼四十幾億耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8384.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8387.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
這是住宅基金的錢這本來是應該拿來蓋社宅的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8388.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8416.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
現在的社宅怎麼回事我們想幫助的對象不想讓大家因為這樣誤用了政策的美意所以我們嚴謹的管理居住正義它是全面的它不會只有一個貸款另外一塊叫做社會住宅再加所謂的租金補貼它是一整套的可是我們現在的新青岸已經亂成一團第二個 接下去剛剛講了如果新青岸去年明年截止我們一年目前是拿到將近45億的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8418.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8423.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
住宅基金那這樣不應該哇哇叫啊快沒錢了對吧所以沒辦法蓋社宅了是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8424.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8451.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
不能這樣講住宅基金如果需要的話我們還是會跟行政院你還是會往新興跟行政院給要錢不是新興安大概是社會住宅的部分好7月不再補貼要換新方法但是新方法一樣會是動到我們住宅基金住宅基金的錢夠不夠現在不知道但是我要了一年的資料院長你520上任現在已經一年半了 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8452.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8458.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
這一年半我們的住宅尤其是設宅政策計畫還沒核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8461.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8488.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
蔡英文總統12萬戶9個月之內他就核定了然後113年說他完成12萬戶在他卸任之前的確某個程度總totally加一加是有大概達到這個數字賴清德總統說8年要直接興建13萬戶但是今年一年了你商量一年多了發包了多少發包了1600戶院長如果按照賴總統他的承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8490.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8514.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
一年要蓋1.5萬戶如果你現在只蓋了1600萬戶他的8年要成10倍也就是賴清德總統要當80年才能做到13萬戶這是怎麼回事然後到今天為止我們跟你們要了N年的資料說我們的這個所謂的社宅新建計劃沒有核定所以沒有人敢變預算沒有人敢告訴我們什麼時候會蓋下一波的社宅 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8515.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8532.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
院長在你桌上很久了嗎還是內政部沒有說出來跟兩部分跟委員報告我們的社宅包租貸款部分現在為的是直接興建包租貸款已經合訂直接興辦的部分所以那是應該的現在是社宅是鋪蓋了嗎不是 直接興辦的部分因為過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8534.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8550.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
量出來之後有一些大筆的比較容易取得的土地大概用的差不多我們現在想多元的這個直接興辦包括明天的投入我沒有意見租金補貼本來就應該包租怪本來就應該那是另外一塊喔13萬戶是鐵打的總統的承諾這是一個莊嚴的承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8555.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8573.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
這是一個對居住這一個最基本的立場擴大量人多元的方式來取得更多的土地你要達到一百萬戶百萬社宅不管是租屋直接新辦的就是在總統八年任期當中的這個十三萬戶如果按照你現在一年只有一千多戶那其實要當八十年 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8577.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8588.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
我需要的是你告訴我時間表一年半了不核定所以沒有任何都督東西敢回文跟我說他下一波要蓋哪裡怎麼蓋蓋多少沒有任何資料可以回覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8589.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8605.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
其實問題是沒有上位計劃下位計劃沒有人敢回答我直接新建住宅的部分跟包租代管未來是屬於社宅的部分我們兩個要一起合併來看那未來我們還是以百萬戶的租屋家庭為主所以送到這個300億你的13萬戶可能會縮水嗎行政院是同意這個方向的我只問你13萬戶會不會縮水 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8608.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8629.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
目前為止我們的進度大概到目前為止今年只剩下百分之三十我們的預算還沒有執行結束那未來我們朝著五千戶到一萬戶一年為主一年五千戶到一萬戶八年也只能蓋不到十萬戶吧你要從去年開始算起來你不能從今年開始算那你去年蓋了多少戶我這邊看到你們發包只有一千六百戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8630.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8657.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
但是這個部分就是確實是賴總統任內發包的因為所有的基金的預算也是賴總統任內發包的所以你們要做八年要蓋多少戶嘛所以我剛有跟委員報告我們未來在土地取得上面越來越困難的狀況之下會朝著賴總統的方式來取得社會主權那這個對於進度正義也是另外一種承認做不到就不要再回答我說我們會往那個目標走如果只能蓋十萬戶就說十萬戶如果只能八萬戶就說八萬戶大家都知道很難 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8658.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8684.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
我們在台北市我們也蓋過很難所以13萬戶變成是沒有辦法核定的東西就把它說清楚不要再拿出來說我們有100萬戶沒有就沒有但是我們還是一樣我們的期待是行政院不可以嫌蓋社宅太貴因為你看租金補貼花了就沒有了明天給完錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8685.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8710.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
很多人目前為止租屋黑市還是在不敢申請的 不敢涉及的不敢涉戶口的還是大有人在所以租金補貼很多人是看得到吃不到但是你興建社宅政府留下了資產然後興建住宅如果我們有社宅達到5%的話我們是可以控制市場的租金的第三個我們如果有社宅我們其實是可以給弱勢的人租期保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8711.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8733.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
最重要的是我們有提供給弱勢的優先的空間現在的問題是如果租金補貼當然更簡單對你來說也很輕鬆蓋社宅本來就很難但這兩件事情院長我要說的是這是政府政策跟政府的承諾我們要選哪一個說清楚一年半了不能沒有態度啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8735.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8758.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們還是朝原來的目標在前進但當中土地取得困難我們要多元的方式政府的資金沒有辦法投入那麼多我們希望民間的資金也來投入那這個過程內政部正在做整盤的一個規劃我相信我也要求在這個規劃出來之後我們的量要實質上的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8758.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8777.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我們希望的是很具體化每天都說我朝那個方向前進然後都沒有計畫有計畫才會有方向才會有運算才會有相關的後續現在連計畫都沒有核定我實在不知道怎麼去了解你們後續的狀況這是我作為一個民意代表我想要知道的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8777.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8801.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
所以部長如果真的每年只能發報一萬戶就說清楚我們也可以接受大家好好來討論但是十三萬戶做不到我覺得也要誠實以對是我們會在滾動的政策上面的提供給委員參考資料但是從這個圖表可以看得出來我們還是希望社宅成為政府未來的資產而不是突經不貼發完就沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8801.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8824.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
直接興建社宅的部分是中央跟地方政府要一起努力的我們有一些地方政府已經停止興建社會住宅表示說他們在取得土地所以您的計畫就很重要了 確實有非常大的困擾您是中央的主管機關 您應該上位計畫把社宅當成最重要的計畫然後跟地方政府一起來努力不是嗎社宅有很多種 直接興建是一種 包租代管也是一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8824.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8843.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
如果我們可以從空餘物取得因為剛剛有立委在詢問的時候我們從包住帶管 社宅的體會也是社會住宅這也是居住正義的一環我想委員可以用滾動式的想法來了解這個社會住宅政策的推動其實這就是一個承諾啦居住正義不要做一半 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8844.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8871.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
居住正義如果總統這樣說8年13萬戶做一半也沒關係說出來但是現在有點在迴避管理直接興辦的計畫正在檢討核定多久可以給我個初步的答案內政部加快速度目前我們的部分是12萬中央是6萬接近7萬地方只有5萬那你如果要檢討的部分的話我希望把包租貸款包括現在空移屋的取得讓他變成社會住宅也包含進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8872.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8897.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我覺得對於年輕人來講這個才是最重要的而不是等三年 五年 十年以後像這樣停進目前我覺得不負責任至少你告訴我我們下一年多少戶多少座我現在調不到任何資料這才是我的問題院長一個月之內給我一個初步的答案吧你們可以檢討檢討很久了好嗎下一個問題是內政部現在在討論的是所謂的虛憑改革不早對吧你們剛剛開過部會議嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8901.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8927.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
虛憑 院長知道什麼是虛憑嗎來 院長你知道台灣人買房子買到的很大多30%到40%都叫虛憑嗎公共設施的價錢其實他都是用總價一坪多少錢來算並沒有把公共設施打個對折也就是說台北人以台北市來說我買30坪的房子可能有10坪到12坪是虛憑 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8929.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8950.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
然後一坪也是上百萬這個改革現在民間團體來說內政部也有相關的計畫目前看起來是有一些我是認為必要的公共設施當然有必要可是現在有太多沒必要的而且是灌水的而且是故意去提高這個房子的總價的 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8951.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8980.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
現在的虛評改革部長你們有沒有方向是 我跟委員報告一下我們在跟相關的民意代表也在做溝通有關虛評改革的部分原來我們所提供的包括說電梯或者是車道的這個部分但目前為止可能他們會認為在計算的方法上面尤其是價格上面的應該不要列入所謂的虛評改革的方向但是我希望我們的地政單位能夠再去思考一下我們如果用時評時售也就是說我站在消費者的 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8980.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9009.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
在國外都做得到啊為什麼在台灣這麼困難啊站在消費者的立場如果可以保障是時評時售的話我們會再跟相關的單位包括民意代表來做最好的溝通就是很簡單做跟不做而已啦都做得到啊報告委員在推動的過程當中我們也希望這要有政府很強的意志力來推動啊台灣大家都希望虛皮每個房子都長很貴當然很好啊可是面對的是假設我說居住 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9009.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9038.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
有爭議的話虛品改革可能是政府要必須面對的事情所以這也是我希望院長在這個年底前這個部分也給我初步的一個回應好嗎我們會把構想跟現在進度跟委員報告是下一個是央行開始信用管制有一些新聞媒體陸續的說我們現在有很多的爛尾樓這爛尾樓怎麼回事部長嚴重嗎不嚴重建商管理機制應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9052.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9054.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
謝謝主席有請卓院長卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9075.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9102.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我今天質詢相關可能會有內政陸委跟中選會那請各位首長隨時stand by吳委員好好 院長大家辛苦了今天我就如何防堵中共製造的民主破口要鞏固臺灣成為民主的堡壘就反借選反獨裁跟反統戰三個面向跟您分享我的觀點下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9104.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9121.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
賴清德總統的這一句話引起社會非常廣泛的回響我們不同黨但要同一國我想這是對於所有從政者的一個提醒政黨對內可以競爭但是對外一定要團結下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9124.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9148.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
所以說國民黨新任的黨主席鄭麗文女士這一番受訪的時候說出的普丁不是獨裁者引起全球的嘩然院長您怎麼看民主有普世的一種標準跟價值獨裁也有從歷史上到現在一種很固定的印象跟認定 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9149.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9178.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那我覺得沒有經過人民普選而且能夠長期擔任一國元首長達一二十年這樣子他完全超越史達林成為在位最長的完全不是民主國家或民主政治民主選舉應該有的一個結果所以如果自己認為他不是獨裁其他的人不這麼認為只有自己認為這個人不是獨裁那個認為他不是獨裁的人有獨裁的心態 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9178.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9206.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
是 您說得很好我這裡推薦一本書顯然鄭麗文主席應當沒有讀過叫做《獨裁者的進化》《獨裁者》為了讓威權的復辟不斷地進化升級去包裝用假民主 偽民主的方式去達到他們破壞民主人權的政治目的所以我要向國民黨新任的黨主席喊話 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9207.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9221.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
如果在您眼中認為普丁不是獨裁者那為什麼在自由民主而且選舉這麼透明公開的台灣賴清德成為你們國民黨人眼中的獨裁呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9221.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9245.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我更要問如果鄭麗文女士國民黨人認為普丁不是獨裁者那麼我要問那習近平中國完全沒有民主選舉的他就更是獨裁者了不是嗎我們看下一頁喔等一下讓主委你可以補充普丁跟習近平有非常多本質的相同之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9246.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9274.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
都是獨裁國家遂行的假民主甚至是沒有民主而且在位的任期無限的延長用不同的方式去暗殺政敵或者是整肅一起普丁或習近平不管用發動戰爭或是威嚇發動戰爭就是為了轉移內政的壓力以及他們在操作要重返大國榮光的這個迷思當然還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9274.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9294.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
普丁侵略了烏克蘭中國想要侵犯台灣都是藉由操弄民族主義要合理化他們的不法侵略的行為而在外交的策略上普丁大打反北約的擴張而在印太地區習近平 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9294.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9303.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
有系統性的來操作以美論包括在台灣有大量的協力者所以說以這些本質看來我要在這裡說強權絕對不是真理 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9307.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9324.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
民主是不容悔棄而和平唯有在民主的前提自由跟人權的基石之上和平才能維繫才能存在所以回到賴清德總統說的我們不同黨但是同一國 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9325.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9352.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
國民黨作為台灣最大的在野黨其實我樂見民主政黨政治的競爭我也不希望民進黨成為台灣唯一的一個政黨我們不要走回一黨獨大的舊思維唯有政黨的正向競爭才能夠讓台灣的民主更為優化跟健全所以我像甄理文女士的發言我表達非常深切的 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9354.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9359.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
不滿或者是遺憾不要站錯邊不要說錯話不要挺錯人 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9363.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9392.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
而就這個部分下頁中國無孔不入無所不在的不管是借選不管是統戰法務部我現在在司法法治委員會這是我長期追蹤的命題法務部整理了五種中國滲透的方式包括科技掏空借選滲透發展在台的組織滲透黑幫滋擾社會以及滲透國會透過宗教學術藝人民代黑道網紅等等的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9393.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9414.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
在兩位看來我們做好萬全的準備了嗎?謝謝委員剛剛您的論述我都非常的支持對於中共對於我們的各種統戰、滲透、分化可以說是無所不在無所不用其極您剛剛所說的確實 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9415.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9442.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我們現在各部會都在積極的落實賴總統所提出這個反中國統戰威脅的這些17項的各種的這些行政措施還有相關的立法不管是魔法執法都會陸續的推出來為了我們國家的安全跟社會的安定要請我們朝野立委來支持我們來推動這17項的措施每個會期都應當是國安會期 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9444.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9459.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
下一頁我剛剛說的這幾項中國慣用的手法當中我先從民主的借選用民主破壞民主的這個方式來就教於兩位其實民進黨長期是中國借選的最大受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9460.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9476.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
因為中國藉由操作台灣的民主選舉要扶植他的代理人甚至是他希望能夠創造所謂的愛國者治台所以2024年大選期間這是最高檢察署的統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9478.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9505.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
2024總統大選有117件反滲透法的借選案件受偵辦的人是高達287人不管是用網路的選舉賭盤不管是用境外資金來借選或是認知作戰一條龍這都是現在進行式我要強調民進黨是最大的受害者但是呢國民黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9507.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9532.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
為了中國選擇了他的愛國者、協力者很顯然所以在這段時間介入國民黨的選舉也前所未見我就不再贅述連國民黨人都跳腳了下一頁世界各國各種方式的借選中國是無所不用其極而台灣是每一種方式的集大成都在台灣影響著滋擾著我們的民主選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9533.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9558.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
所以說我們要防堵我們要防治剛剛主委說我們會有很多反借選的法案但是我們的國安法案還被阻擋的同時再也委員的反國安法案以及駐借選的惡法已經上路了我現在身兼民進黨政策會的執行長 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9560.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9575.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
我羅列出整理出五大惡法就是中國借選可以大開後門的惡法包括不在即投票會傷害台灣的選舉公正性包括中配六改四涉及洗人口 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9577.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9606.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
選罷法民調禁制期十天變三天會干擾投票公投綁大選製造選務的混亂還有最後一個就是衛星廣播電視法的修法取得讓中天類似的媒體取得萬年執照有利於中國操作選前的認知作戰這些五大惡法你們有什麼因應院長如果左翼來看不在即投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9607.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9636.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我們認為目前來看我們沒有那樣的經驗我們可以嘗試從對市的公投來加以延期如何來主舉行況且如果每一個縣市都可以讓不同的人去投各種不同的對人的選舉票那一個投票所會多複雜所以選務的複雜性我們需要練習先從對市的公投更可能產生到對這個秘密投票的一個破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9637.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9663.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
如果只有一個人選擇在某一個縣市去投他一張票那麼他投給誰將暴露無遺這個都是要事先規劃的那我就教於主委喔因為國民黨委員已經開始操作說不再去投票我們只限境內啊可是如果這樣的話就像我們民團說的台氣連動員台鄉很方便在金馬投票它的那個成本更低啊或者是在美國就發生過 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9664.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9688.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
美國被中國介入大量的製造假駕照在2020的總統大選的時候幫助中國的僑民投票來協力美方所青睞的那個候選人所以在野黨的委員所說的這個謬論說都是在境內實施所以不會有影響不會有安全性公正性的質疑來主委你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9689.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9711.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
是 跟委員報告有關於不在籍投票這個制度剛剛院長也講了這是我們沒有實施的經驗但是它極有可能被對岸用來各種的借選的操作這個部分我們都願意社會有更多的討論如果有陸委會以我們的經驗的話我們也願意提供我們的經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9714.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9735.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
就算這個制度上路呢也不要讓中國有借選的這個後門也好大門也好都不應該我想當務之急國會全力要來反制這樣一個討論因為如果我是支持行政院的版本公投先行然後用移轉投票的方式讓台灣有一個練習的機會選務的作業能夠上軌道之後再來進行對人的選舉下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9740.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9765.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
但是有一個條件非法借選我們必須有效防治絕不寬單這個前提非法借選包括中國的借選過去委員說過我們都深受其害但是社會有一部分人不相信我想到今天為止大家都相信了無論是受力或受害的人都相信中國借選確實有它存在的事實所以我們必須對於非法借選要有力強制之後我們才能往下去思考任何的政策改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9766.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9783.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
昨天發生的這個事情在龍山寺前公然的買賣個資其實在我看來這就是讓我聯想到美國2020年總統選舉的時候中國透過製造大量的假駕照來幫助中國僑民去偽造投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9784.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9799.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
不可不慎我們正發生這樣子的事情我們要防躲非常同意院長所說的如果在中國借選的疑慮未解之前不應當貿然來推動不在即投票在台灣下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9800.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9818.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
另外一個對於民調的禁制期10天變3天其實過去有很多的案例包括2024年的總統選舉透過9次的假民調然後去挺侯友宜另外張顯耀也被法辦透過假民調拉抬郭台銘中國在 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9819.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9844.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
遂行者協力者他青睞的人能夠當選那當然也是意圖使他不支持的候選人使人不當選這些都有我們劣跡斑斑可考的這些經驗你們同意嗎因為全球66個國家都有民調禁制級10天也是不論藍綠誰執政都是10天嘛要改為3天你們認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9846.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9852.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
台灣的民主政治發展到現在是一個國人高度參與在選舉那段時間是非常熱情的 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9853.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9880.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
為了大家能夠在熱情之前有一段思考期我們過去這幾年下來我覺得執行的過程還算是能夠讓選舉回歸到正常照這樣的經驗目前要改變我認為應該看我們過去幾年它難道出現了什麼弊端嗎如果10天的冷卻期沒有產生任何的弊端那驟然改變它又會產生任何不好的影響應該要同步來考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9880.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9908.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
我希望下一頁我們要為台灣的民主避險為台灣的安全要拆淡所以說這五大惡法不在即投票中配六改四縮短民調禁制期公投綁大選跟中天的萬年條款我希望我也要求我們行政團隊完整的彙整我們的論述在立法院我們當然執政黨會全力的來阻擋在中國的借選疑慮未解之前這些都不應當貿然上路 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9909.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9935.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
甚至該撤案就撤案我們一起做好拆彈避險的準備好嗎但是下一頁我們的國安法案沒有列在你們30個優先法案之列魔高一尺道就要高一丈我知道我們準備很久是不是也能夠加速就我們關切的反借選反滲透的部分趕快把國安法案端出來是 我們很慎重的在盤點 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9936.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9954.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這個相關的內容跟所有的法案的周延性沒有列進去因為它必然是一個優先所以它只要完整之後我們就透過法定的程序來呈請大院來做審理好 我希望每個會期都是國安會期我們一起來推國安法案我來看我最後一頁沈博洋那一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9955.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9984.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
中國的黑手啊長臂管轄 跨境鎮壓今天沈博洋 明天任何人阿共阿親蒙打虎立法院怎麼能夠置身事外呢我非常遺憾韓國瑜院長跟藍白的委員反對民進黨的這個共同聲明保護每一個國人是政府的責任就這個事件怎麼保護我們的立委怎麼保護我們的沈博洋委員保護國人是政府的責任保護國會議員也是國會的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9985.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9993.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那我請江啟臣副院長今天韓院長不在國會的聲明是需要的各項的防護保護的作為好謝謝吳委員下一位我們請李坤成委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10033.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10043.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
好 謝謝主席我們請卓院長 劉部長卓院長還有內政部劉部長備詢李文豪院長好 部長好今天跟我們所有內閣來討論一個議題假叛逃真滲透 殊榮替代處分成為國安的破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10063.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10077.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我舉個最近的例子好了10月14號有一個中國偷渡客抱著兩顆浮球就跑到金門的淨值水域線漂流到那邊去了他說來到金門玩院長你會相信嗎不相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10083.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10107.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這個不是只有這個例子而已從最近5年來中國偷渡客來到台灣的人數超過50人今年最多這種利用真滲透假叛逃真滲透的方式是來測試台灣的海防還有我們的法律但是現在對於偷渡客法律的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10109.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10137.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
可以處五年以下的有期徒刑但是我調的資料目前大概就是兩個月到八個月不等判得非常的輕兩個月到八個月不等然後如果服刑期滿之後是由我們的移民署來收容但是收容的上限規定是150天那收容屆滿之後移民署會做成收容替代處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10138.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10153.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那問題就出在了這個收容替代處分就是等待遣返的滋亂期間成為中國滲透台灣的一個最大的一個破口我舉兩個例子因為這兩個例子媒體上有報出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10154.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10182.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
第一個呢是2023年有一個中國的一個陽線偷渡客他現在已經被遣返回去了他在遣返回去的時候他講啦他說啊他在等待這個遣返正在時間裡面他呢去環島環島那環島呢他借了一輛摩托車去環島他說啊其實這個大家不用緊張因為呢查的最嚴的呢是你有沒有戴安全帽他不會去檢查你的什麼證件就看你有沒有戴安全帽而已然後難道有網友就說難道 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10183.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10211.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
我們的國防任性只剩下安全帽嗎第二個 他現在仍然還在台灣就是有一個說他是前這個什麼解放軍的廷長我也不知道是真還假的服刑期滿 那移民署收容天數也屆滿了現在也是做成一個收容替代的處分然後他接受媒體專訪大談是怎麼去偷渡來到台灣的一個過程這難道沒有違反任何的法律的規定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10212.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10241.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
所以我請教一下院長中國的親老型態一直在與時俱進中國的偷渡客判得輕收容的時間短等待遣返的時間長收容替代處分形同虛設讓他們可以匆匆容容的在台灣的趴趴走形成國安的破口我請問一下目前平均等待遣返時間是多久那這段時間又怎麼去確保我們社會的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10243.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10261.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
在現在這個狀況底下我們要採取更嚴謹的標準過去或許有一些法治上是比較鬆散一點的對於它的管制行為是沒有那麼周全性的在這裡這個期間當中還能接受媒體的採訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10263.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10288.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
盡可以用這個散佈很多不實的言論但是這個如果過去現行是容許的話我們一定要從法制面來駕以現在可以容許這樣子嗎我們要來禁止部長報告委員我想有關於這個收容替代期間他是不可以違反我們所說的你講的部分就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10289.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10309.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
製造一些假訊息上廣播或是上什麼媒體去談這個沒有任何規定嗎我們目前為止沒有特別強制現在有這種情況他人還在台灣住所要強制規定他現在人還在台灣等待遣返他等待遣返所以這段時間也違反了相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10314.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10336.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
所以對他沒有任何的處置我們移民署的同仁會定期跟他做聯繫知道說他現在所從事的行為但是沒有辦法24小時來監控這是一個所以我們希望能夠從修法比較趨嚴的方式來重新去思考一下有關替代收容的部分讓他再回去收容安置的場合問一下現在平均等待遣返時間大概多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10337.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10359.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
不一定 因為要看我們跟對方就是跟對岸之間的聯繫的管道上面他們願不願意事實上是有可以回去的但是就是要看他們的狀況他們現在不收嘛是不是有的收有的不收有的收有的不收第一個他就回去了那現在有多少人還在台灣等待遣返大約 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10361.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10383.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
沒有要主動對外啦 大約十個左右所以如果中國一直對於陸委會已讀不回那要求要遣返他們也不處理那怎麼辦這是我們在溝通上面所碰到的困擾但是我們還是會持續努力所以他們如果不把這些人我們要送回去 他說我們反正就跟你拖那這段時間他們可以容許他們在台灣爬爬走嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10384.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10401.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
當然不可以 但我剛跟您報告過就是沒有辦法24小時監控所以最好的方式再把他請回收容替代的場合的地方譬如說再把他關起來 說簡單一點就收容不替代了但是你還是必須經過一定的法律程序那我就問這一個這個軟性這個人他會被再收容嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10410.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10431.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
我們會針對他的個案是不是有已經違反我們相關的規定如果有的話我們就會處置這個這段期間啊等待期間是多久平均來講我們也不知道有可能半年有可能一年那這段時間呢他們就趴趴照我也不曉得說這個移民署有做什麼樣的一個規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10433.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10455.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
讓他們可以就是說受到我們的這個監管那但是如果說這個陽性的偷渡客他所講為真他還環島耶他還環島耶那我請教一下我們是不是出入國移民法還有兩岸人民關係條例對這一種違反這一個相關的收容規定的話可不可以加重的處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10457.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10473.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我們會配合來修這個比較嚴格的兩岸人民關係條例在入書國移民法當中事實上是有條文的禁止他從事違反的一個行為其中如果我們查起來是應該有包括不得接受媒體的訪問 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10474.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10502.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我覺得這個應該很明確的這個也不是一天兩千的事情了這媒體都有報出來的我們發現這些不實不法的行為我們就進行到議法來處理然後現在檢舉中國脫瀆客的獎金是五萬塊然後如果是協助修正中國的大陸軍艇艦每按三千塊我認為這個檢舉獎金太低了可不可以再把它提高一點檢舉中國脫瀆客獎金才五萬塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10505.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10518.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
然後協助修正中國大陸的軍潛艦才3000塊這有沒有辦法提高我們會根據委員的建議來做一下修正的建議我覺得希望可以提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10519.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10535.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
因為海巡署他要守那麼長的一個海岸線其實有他的困難度所以我們希望說名利可以來幫忙做出解決但是我覺得一件五萬塊太低了我覺得適時把它提高也來增強我們的海防我再請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10536.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10559.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這個內政部有預告修正公職人員選報法的施行規則要求候選人登記申請調查表的時候要拒絕未在中國設有戶籍包含持有中國居民身份證、定居證還有領用中國護照明年三合一選舉的時候會把整個申報的結果放在選舉公報上面是不是對那我請下一家院長或是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10560.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10566.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
所以明年的我們的選舉公報上面會多一籃沒有中國的護照 戶籍跟雙重國籍嗎 會多這個嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10568.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10593.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
我們在編印的部分會尊重選委會可是我們會按照剛剛委員所提到的他如果沒有雙重國籍的話要做一下拒絕或是簽結是說我們在登記的時候要拒絕然後那個拒絕的結果會放在選舉公報上面選舉公報就是我們會尊重中選會要不要放在選舉公報有中選會我看邱主委他也講說在接受專訪的時候他說這個會放在這一個選舉公報上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10595.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10622.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
目前中選會是這麼設計 我們也表達樂觀所以會有一欄是 讓揭露他有申報 誠實申報讓所有的選民都知道那我問一下 拒絕他的法律效力是怎麼樣如果最後查出來了 他有雙重國籍或是他具有中國的戶籍 領有中國的護照是當選無效呢 還是負刑事責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10622.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10643.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
以目前沒有修改法律的狀況之下他是當選有效但是他需要在一年之內根據我們國籍法放棄中國的國籍對啊 所以我覺得那個拒絕新的法律要大院修正通過才可以啊我們現在只能用行政處分的方式來處理對 我知道所以我現在特別要問拒絕之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10644.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10670.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
他可以選但是拒絕有可能還是具有雙重國籍有可能具有中國的戶籍跟護照但是他還是可以選只是說選上之後他要按照國籍法的規定一年之後一年之內要把他放棄這個外國國籍他應該還有其他使公務員登載不實的軌道文書罪所以有刑事責任但是沒有說當選無效他當選有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10671.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10699.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
他如果有中國的身份的話他連台灣人的身份都無法保留更不要說他當選的身份但是可以參選現在有規定是他可以參選如果我們知道他有中國的身份他連參選都沒有資格當選當然要他連國人的身份都沒有也不可能當選所以我剛剛問的如果他是中國籍人士取得中華民國身份之後他也可以選舉所以有戶籍十年以上但是他是可以登記參選的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10701.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10729.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
他可以登記參選那只是說他當選之後他可能具有中國國籍那我們就是按照國籍法規定一年之內請他完成上市國籍的手續對不對目前的規定是這樣子那我再請教一下院長就客觀事實而言的話這個中國是不是屬於外國的國籍中華人民共和國當然不是屬於中華民國國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10730.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10737.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
所以他具有中國的國籍他要放棄嘛對不對就按照國籍法規定他要放棄外國的國籍嘛那包含中國在內嘛對不對是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10740.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10764.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這個就是我們的規定這樣按照國籍法規定這樣子嘛因為那個石雪燕也是因為他沒有去放棄這個中國國籍所以被解職嘛對不對那我再請教一下那是不是因為我剛才就提到說你們這個還可以讓他去登記我們要不要比照這個總統副總統的選舉罷免法你只要具有外國國籍就不讓你登記這樣不是比這個拒絕更有效率嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10765.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10792.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那就是要修正選舉罷免法不是總統副總統的選舉罷免法我認為院長的意思我認為這樣子讓你連登記都不能登記這不是比拒絕更具有法律上的效力嗎從修法的過程當中我們來從這方面演習這個更周延啦而且更能夠不必衍生登記不登記以後的這個選舉問題在他的權力上就不屬於我國國 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10794.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10817.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
國民的沒有我國國籍的他有外國國籍的那能做一個清楚的這個界限我想這個也是現在我們在思考的你連登記都不能登記現在是他具有中國國籍他其實可以登記只是選上他要放棄對不對那應該是說你連登記都不能登記你有外國國籍我不一定指中國國籍你有外國國籍其實連登記都不能登記我們的這個總統副總統選辦法就是這樣規定的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10819.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10847.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
其實應該往這個方式走我認為會去比你說在這個施行性質裡面去弄一個我要拒絕我沒有中國的戶籍或是說我沒有雙重國籍我覺得更具有效力這個我們當然有提案我們希望說行政院如果方向也是這樣子的話那未來這個提案會更順利這兩天的新聞就是說這個移民署有查到說50個台灣人事證明確他在中國有涉及那依法要撤銷台灣的戶籍對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10848.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10871.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
那如果他們現在在我們中華民國境內的話那這些人要怎麼處理呢這些人50人都是在現在在我們中華民國境內嗎還是有的在境外沒有 有些已經不在台灣境內有些不在台灣了那台灣的情況怎麼辦呢他如果是合法他不具備有中華民國國籍已經被註銷了嘛譬如說他有居留證或是有其他的話當然可以在台灣啦但是他不具備有中華民國國籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10872.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10897.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
是這樣子嗎跟委員報告如果人在境內他又被我們撤銷我們台灣的身份的話依照兩岸條例第18條規定主管機關內政部移民署可以進行強制出境或限令10日內出境那預期出境期間仍然沒有出境的話我們可以強制出境 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10898.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10925.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
所以應該是要強制出境嘛是不是按照法規是怎麼按照法規其實是要強制出境那除非是說他又獲得那個拘留的身份要看他現在的身份是不是合法拘留那你們要先查清楚要按照相關規定來走最後時間有限現在我看到這個警政署他說關於這個毒價你們現在有這個唾液毒品的快篩試劑可以來用是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10927.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10950.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
這個最快哪時候可以上路報告委員現在是我們根據道交條例的19條之四現在在10月20號的時候進行預告14日預告結束以後就可以交給交通部來做法制作業所以這個唾液試劑毒品的快篩試劑最快哪時候可以上路因為你們說買了這個12545劑哪時候可以上路用12545劑哪時候可以上路上路使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10972.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10988.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
好 謝謝好 謝謝李委員 謝謝卓院長下一位我們請沈伯陽委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
11009.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
11020.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
謝謝主席 那有請院長然後先那個陸委會主委就主委 謝謝那待會可能會有內政部 謝謝內政部沒有 內政部部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
11027.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
11044.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
森委員好院長好 主委好那這個一開始我先來這個當然就是剛剛四要委員其實也有提到我還是要打一個大大的涉及案件在這個左上角那我認為這件事情很重要重要在哪裡 並不是我個人 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
11044.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11073.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
因為我們今天海委會也在我們都知道從去年開始灰色地帶作戰是越來越嚴重它會步步進逼離台灣的越來越近手法越來越翻新那它對於我個人的懲戒可能先從個人口頭上的一個懲戒然後一直到家人然後一直到什麼商業活動有往來的範圍然後一直到說現在要偵查我想說之後應該可能就通緝或我在想可能應該就要缺席審判 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11074.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11083.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
那他這樣的一個方式我現在有點擔心就是因為在這一個我在應該是第四次的時候還是第三次的時候其實在同一天他們也有公佈對我們國軍的這個通緝 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11086.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11108.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
那這個很麻煩是因為表示他已經在針對我們的公務人員來做這個新戰因為我們也都知道我們現在面對中國最主要就三戰嘛這一個輿論戰、新戰還有法律戰那法律戰去年就已經開始很多了我待會會問到那輿論戰這一個部分我看很多立委都關心像認知作戰、台灣有沒有在地協力者這個過往我已經問很多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11109.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11131.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
但是新戰這個部分我覺得大家可能會比較忽略因為新戰大部分就是針對政治人物跟軍人這兩塊他想要讓他們以後沒有抗敵的意志希望他做出錯誤的決定那因為前陣子國台辦也有公佈針對我們的司法人員說檢舉他們為台獨等等之類所以表示軍公教現在已經被針對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11132.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11160.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
如果軍公教在被針對的這個狀況之下我們有什麼比較有創意的方式來做回擊我之所以會問這個是因為這一年多以來他們一直這樣做他們顯然沒有什麼成本也就是說他們覺得做這件事情感覺台灣沒有什麼反應如果我們今天一直沒有一個反制措施的話它越擴張越多接下來可能就是一般人民了所以這邊想問不管是主委或者院長我們現在有什麼比較好的反制措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11162.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11186.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我肯定相信對方的這個行為不會造成委員你個人對民主信念的堅持還有日常的正常生活反而會激起你更堅強的意志對抗這種極權的政府但是我們都認為一樣大家都知道對方中國對我們並沒有任何的司法管轄權所以他談的是空話 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11188.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11211.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我覺得這可以是不是委員有考慮到我們向國際的人權組織或政治組織向他說明現在當今社會存在著一個國家竟然要對他的鄰近國家伸展這個長臂管轄而且用這種莫須有的罪名要試圖影響該人的一個行為上的自由這個應該讓國際社會了解這個極權國家無論他今天經濟力量有多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11212.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11218.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
國家的武器戰力有多強在人權這方面他完全是不及格的應該讓國際社會來瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11220.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11247.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
謝謝院長的這個答案因為真的對我個人來講當然不會有什麼太大的損傷我們都把這個當作是一個榮譽的標記表示我們應該都是做對事情但是對於國際社會這樣的一個發生我認為是重要的為什麼是因為一直以來在很多國家比如說美國在針對中國假設今天中國對他們做類似這樣的事情美國馬上可能就會說我們針對什麼中國的官員在美國致慘然後馬上來做一些制裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11248.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11262.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
但我們說真的中國官員大概在台灣自產這個狀況應該比較少是因為我們對於中國的管制原本就很嚴格西方世界之所以現在可以做很多的這些制裁的動作是因為他們以前對中國不設防 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11263.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11283.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
所以他們要做更嚴格的措施來反制的時候這個是會有力道的但是我們的管制措施已經存在當然我們在行政上我剛剛看到前面有很多委員也在問就是說能不能夠這邊再更嚴格一點這邊再加重一點檢舉的獎金再多一點但我們要直接做一個確實的反制對中國要有一定的威脅那個成本的升高不容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11284.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11297.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
所以對於國際社會的一個發聲像我的案子其實路透社等等國際媒體其實都是有報導那在這個當下其實有可能會對他們來更多的壓力但也有可能我們在外交上如果真的要來做這樣的發聲我們的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11298.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11326.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
可能是有點不足啦我們去年的外交預算這方面就已經有點不足了如果要再往下的話這可能都是一個疑問所以當然但是接下來我想要再問就是說這是新戰的部分因為我個人我們常做這些事情我們都知道中國的威脅但我覺得軍公教就像我剛剛提到的軍人可能也還好因為軍人也知道他們的天職就是在保衛這個國家他們也知道他們會被中國新戰會被中國威脅但像司法人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11326.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11354.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
但我知道這個可能是有點法務部可能要回答的問題就是在陸委會這邊就是司法人員他們在面臨到這樣的一個威脅的時候有沒有什麼方式讓他們知道或者讓他們有信心一點不要因為這樣受到司法獨立的干擾司法人員我認為司法人員都受過我們國家正規的法律訓練基本對中華民國憲法以及所有的法律都有基本的了解在這個情況底下都認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11355.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11373.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
對方無理的這個行為應該不會對自己造成困擾到底要做的是如何保護國人如果給國人更正確的安全的了解比方說你現在要到中國大陸去的人要進中國境內的人你事先必須了解他有沒有注意過你過去的一些言行 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11374.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11394.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
應該在這種高度的安全威脅存在的前提底下衡量自己的行為否則我們司法人員也沒有辦法到當地去履行我們的司法權利我們對國人的保障也可能會受到很大的折扣所以司法人員本身我認為問題不是那麼大但是如何保護人民的問題會比較大一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11395.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11423.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
對 我覺得這個院長提到一件很重要的事情就是因為接下來它擴張可能到一般人民就好像之前其實我們有這一個一般人民到這個跟某個委員去香港結果在香港也被抓走所以一般人民有可能對這個認識是不足那認識不足的話其實就蠻需要陸委會做更多的宣導那問題就在於說我們很希望陸委會因為現在反而可能需要的人力跟需要的宣導費用有可能要比往年要來得更多是因為我們現在面臨的這個是鋪天蓋地 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11425.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11440.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
是 跟委員報告 謝謝委員您提到這個事情很重要中國透過這個法律戰結合他的認知作戰對於我們這些跨境鎮壓那可以說是越來越變本加厲他是企圖讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11441.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11457.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
台灣人民的心被恫嚇然後是分化我們台灣社會所以我們國內朝野必須要一致來提升來譴責共同來抵制剛剛委員講的一個很重要就是說我們的國人富祿 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11459.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11483.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
他們也收到很多包括失聯的、失蹤的被滯留盤查的而且被陸方因為法律被關押的這些人數逐步增加據我們從去年到10月底的統計已經達到233人其中去年才55人我們今年就178人比去年還多三倍 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11485.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11512.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這種不管是跨境鎮壓或是我們國人暴露的人身安全確實亮起紅燈所以剛剛不僅是我們這邊被跨境鎮壓我們需要保護國人像政治人物軍方或者是你剛剛說的檢察官可能心理素質比較強大他不受到這種心聲恐慌但一般國人就會所以我們也希望各行各業都要知道我們應該要團結一致共同抵制 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11513.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11528.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
共同譴責拒絕中共的跨境鎮壓各行各業應該不要對於被中共點名的人配合他們在繼續的來為虎作倉助紂為虐我們反而要保護國人避免這個跨境鎮壓 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11529.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11557.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
而且國際社會對跨境鎮壓越來越重視我們應該呼籲國際社會重視台灣的這個個案我們陸委會也好外交部也好都會跟國際社會說好中國對台灣進行跨境鎮壓的這個重要的個案那就拜託了因為接下來的宣導我認為是重中之重所以這個之後我們在這個內政委後我們再來接下來來針對這一點來做這個討論那接下來這一個是想要問這個那個四方部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11558.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11564.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
就是說 我先recap一下這個是我在2024年10月8號大概就一年以前那時候不是問你那時候是問顧部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11565.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11593.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
因為那時候發現這個新兵訓練的時候結果在放那個解放軍的影片結果因為那時候其實我記得是台中市政府是因為他們地方的兵役跟這個地方的這個可能遊覽車合作結果放了這個影片那當時國防部是承諾說至少跟國防部有關的比如說新兵訓練或者說這一個不是本來那個返鄉專車國軍的這個偽商的交通車這個他們會確保不會有這種事情發生那至於地方政府也會去要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11593.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11617.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
所以這是去年發生的事情大概也是我覺得改善蠻多的但現在跟內政普比較有關的是替代役替代役其實對我們來講替代役在花蓮的時候替代役在第二天馬上就出發其實也是給予了非常多支持我們對於替代役的訓練是一年比一年好但是替代役現在有一個就是由我們的治安維護組是警察機關召集的 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11617.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11638.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那警察官召集他們也會做一些比如說治安維護緊急救護的訓練這是美式一件我覺得這個是一直我們民防往這個方向發展是對的但是我們在看到這個是新北市的細紙分局他們在做這一個一樣治安維護組的訓練的時候這個影片可能幫我播放一下很短 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11643.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11663.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
眼底上方也盖起了铁锁,面对这种飞着来的炸弹,士兵们甚至被逼的把鱼网拉进战壕,希望能挡住它的锋芒,但这些东西对真正的投放无人机几乎没用,人家直接从天上流泪,打你的措手不及,为了对抗它,还有士兵专门潜伏在无人机航线上,趁它靠近时剪短光线,好让它彻底失去。 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11664.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11682.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
這一個就是說我們可以看到上面這個是一個看起來就是類似抖音的影片裡面也有簡體字這件事情就是當然在地方的執行上面很容易會出現這樣的一個問題他可能找了自己的實資等等之類的但畢竟這一件事情是中央內政部跟地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11683.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11699.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
畢竟是一起來協助做這一個替代醫療的這個勤務編組所以我想問一下就是說因為這可能跟教材比較有關係目前來講有沒有辦法比如說統一的教材或者要求一定是怎樣程度的課綱不要說有這樣的一個事情發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11700.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11721.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
是 謝謝委員的指教我們會朝著這方面來處理第一個就是說他如果在成功領的時候他是有公版的教材可是到地方上包括資安維護組或是其他的消防組的話可能就是地方縣市政府包括兵役局或者他會請退休的軍訓教官那他們可能就是比較便宜行事直接從網路抓下來直接就拿到 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11722.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11738.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
上面去當教材這個完全是跟我們的原來的想法是背道而馳這方面我們會來做精進改進包括跟地方縣市政府的兵役單位或者是訓練的單位做公版的提供一定不能出現有跟中國相關的教材出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11739.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11766.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這個就再拜託請內政部對地方政府再多做一些要求不然的話有時候在網路上大家看到就會對於這種訓練可能又會有質疑我們國軍在去年一整年以來慢慢的改了非常多地方然後重拾人民對國軍的信心我希望對於議政署對於替代役國人對於名利的這樣的一個知識也能夠持續的往上提升最後持一線關係我再問一下打詐這件事情這可能就要問院長了 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11768.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11797.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
但是這個有沒有有趣因為我去索資因為我知道大家都很關心打詐講說金額多少等等之類的但說真的打詐其實就是兩件事情第一個就是選導非常重要我們一定要跟人民選導說最新的詐騙手法是什麼大家應該要注意我認為這部分是OK的第二個是當詐騙都已經發生了有時候你沒辦法杜絕它還是發生的時候那個處理速度一定要很快它是跟時間賽跑我發現我們就是跟這一個速發部要這個資料的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11797.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11818.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
有一半以上的這種網路詐騙他們回報以後因為假設今天比如說這是跟農業有關的詐騙速發部就會去找農業部說這個交給你這個到底是不是有問題的如果是的話我們趕快回報給社群平台但是有一半都是速發部在處理為什麼呢是因為很多你沒有辦法歸類它有些就是冒充名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11818.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11833.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
名人也沒有主管機關所以到最後就是速發部來處理但是即使是如此我們可以看到速發部在的18000案件他平均的處理時間是14小時所以說真的也不算太慢但是說真的應該你可以看到內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11834.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11859.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那你這部今天是5000個它1.4個小時就可以完成這一個審查其實速度非常非常的快所以如果時間夠本來想請部長來講一下為什麼可以那麼快但是我現在發現一件事情就是你看衛福部它剩2700個案件它平均要花260個小時衛福部一直很慢對 那我後來就想說奇怪為什麼那麼慢我後來才發現我原因是這樣子有一個月突然其中都是在冒充遺失相關的詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11861.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11884.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
所以冒充醫師的相關的詐騙在一個月之內突然大量湧入衛福部結果他可能只有幾個人可以做這個相關的審查所以他當然就沒有這個他當然就只能拖著因為他沒有辦法那麼快但是倒過來假設我們今天說好我們把衛福部來增加人力希望他來處理他可能過了下個月另一個冒充醫師的詐騙都沒有了全部都變成冒充別的結果那些人就閒置在那一邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11885.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11914.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
所以現在會變成說那個謠言會跳來跳去在每一個部會有可能衛福部今天很多可能隔天經濟部很多可能下一個月變勞動部很多所以變成這個院這一邊的這個中間的人力的協調可能會變得很重要那我們過往有打炸辦公室打炸辦公室這個是不是有這樣的一個協調能力讓今天每一個部會遇到的時候他可能都會有一個臨時的編組然後他也知道guideline知道說要用哪一些標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11915.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11931.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
因為像衛福部我看他們遇到的問題就是他有點不太能判定到底是高風險還是完全的詐騙所以到底要回報還是不要回報還在那邊猶豫然後還在那邊慢慢查證到底是真的醫生還是假的醫生那個SOP的建立一旦慢的話有可能這個速度就會 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11949.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11964.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝沈委員 謝謝卓院長莊瑞雄委員之質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報下一位請王美惠委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11983.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
12004.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
主席 我們家院長黃委員好 院長辛苦院長 在這段時間15年來到現在 我們的台中發生一件非洲豬瘟 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
12009.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12028.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我相信你的心沒分什麼東北我現在要怎麼去處理、去完成還要緊因為應用的定義整個我們中華民國的台灣的生活所以在這個規定當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12031.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12041.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
院長 本學要跟你探討一下你們本來有抱怨說我們台地跟金字在地有十天的時間但是你們去了解之後覺得這是事態嚴重所以你們再改十五天 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12052.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12058.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
改15天就是11月16日的步驟開始可以開始在這個過程當中說實在的 院長 你我都一樣都很開心如果控制不好不是15天而已還要再多所以在最近看到你們的勇氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12080.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12091.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
叫我們軍隊去消毒到台中就沒辦法就沒辦法用沒辦法用 我們就請軍隊來消毒的時候又回到 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12095.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12109.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
說沒人說自己可以再去煮油去煮消毒水啦在這個過程我們的農委會要去查也有困難所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12111.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12133 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
院長本身要跟你說11月16日的簿可以抬低 還剩2天而已今天的11月16日你認為有可能在11月16日的簿可以抬低 可以開放再抬嗎來 院長你回答一下這個有關於這個記者 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12138.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12159.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
中央應變中心應該是明天會開會現在進行中央疫調團所調查的結果發現某種的屬性處於該真主沒有真主地方政府該查核沒有查核該監控沒有監控造成豬農 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12160.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12163.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
用一個沒有珍珠或是沒有達到珍珠標準的廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12190.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12207.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
他這群爺爺喔完全夠整個國外阿嬤叫他爺爺啦他說他那一招啦阿嬤看他的招在哪裡啦所以這時候我們都未來要追究責任也在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12209.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12224.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
他們倆的父母 弟弟的父母已經死了這是全國 整個台灣亂糟糟 酸噴噴的院長 我是說一律所了解 一律所做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12230.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12242.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
要交給中央應變中心因為是明天的會議會很固定我們現在希望照目前來看中央議調團挑戰的結果只有案例場這個案例場本身有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12243.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12259.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
現在經濟很多清消現在裡面這個病毒大概都沒有了但它擴散出去的我們有擴散延伸去查其他的關聯廠應該也沒什麼大問題這交給我們中央應變中心跟中央疫調團就學者專家依照技術來處理我也很希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12261.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12272.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
大奧運 白鷺禮拜大家都來吃白骨飯 吃蘿蔔飯這樣院長也信心十九我也準備在白鷺禮拜來吃吃吃白骨飯如果順利的話院長 我很擔心的就是我們的雞肉買不到我們的雞肉起雞在每一天來你覺得雞肉大賣又起十塊了 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12293.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12308.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
在我們裡面 有在10天裡面去10號的時候這是非常嚴重所以 院長 這是整個連鎖所產生的問題這說實在 會困擾到我們北省 我們的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12317.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12331.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
所以原來本市在這裡幫你探討的就是我們也能整個處理得好我也知道防疫的人很辛苦但是在這個過程中說實在的我們受到非洲豬運的影響有很大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12336.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12358.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
主要有做一件事 它不會受傷的沒有做一件事 它都會受傷的所以這個營養有夠大也勿忘院長和經濟部來探討要怎樣才會傷心那些人台底的也好因為這段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12360.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12387.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
要補充補走雖然是台中所做的要補認真但是我們要之前要做一個有擔當的政府跟委員報告 司法調查的部分就檢調單位去處理現在行政要做的主要有兩項 如果可以解封以後第一就是對一級的生產鏈對台低一直到肉店要做補充 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12389.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12413.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
再來一項 重要的是說要維持這個地霸供應跟市場上價格穩定這兩部分是現在最重要的這如果地霸出來 像這個時候這15天都沒抵 跟地霸搬過 跟海龍融合我們的總量管制 開始的總量管制再來 院長 我覺得說長久以來 我們的政策會靠有夠多的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12415.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12441.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
讓北省的感覺是一點點我們的四大人的照顧覺得都沒有什麼改變都在原地踏步院長 我們現在要跟你談到的就是老人年金老人年金的資源已經是四十八億但是我們的法律有規定四年可以討論一遍但是在這四年討論一遍 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12445.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12465.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
院長 你可不可以知道這十八個檔 人家調整一千 空四十九個所以在這個規定當中 院長後人捏三千的才開始捏三千五的 現在捏四千的 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12467.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12487.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
像我們的財政部說我們百姓的生活一個月就要獎金一萬七千多塊原來你如果想說我們的四大人一個月生活領一個四千出頭口 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12489.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12505.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
一天沒八五個一天沒五十個院長在這個規定當中我覺得需要院長的協助去了解因為我覺得看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12507.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12534.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
農民的生活我們漸漸給他們的福利和保養要不然我們最緊要跟兩百人去捏國民年金在這個規定 院長你認為這個十八年來的條件是不是已經無法時代了請院長回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12535.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12537.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
非常感謝委員這個重要的提示對105年、109年到103年這三年分別有調整六六年金但是越調調整的幅度3.65%、3.97%到7.34% |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12550.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12565.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
三邊的價格都中調整到15% 14.95%就是你說的這個金額依照現在經濟社會經濟發展的這個枯竊跟我們國家的財政的能力現在行政院也有在想說要怎麼來修一個國家完整的社會福利制度對出息到老大人可以有一個軌道的現在稍微每天都有 但是好像沒辦法把它整合成一個軌道 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12580.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12588.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
特殊 酒喝 性格 力量 老人退休這個部分要怎麼做得完整一個國家可以完全 一個國家可以壯大 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12591.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12612.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
就是每一項的福利 都是要去照顧自出生 到大人 到老人現在本席跟你說的就是說我們年輕人來補助 一生的孩子有補助是到最好的老人年金 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12613.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12628.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
真的有東西太貴了所以院長 我也在這件事說實在的你如果想一個月而已四千多塊啦人家以前還會說跟我們阿扁阿總統在一個月到那裡一個月可以領錢的生活費 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12635.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12655.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我們也會當地發聲聽說我們的卓院長 我們的立場總統為了這些老人的福利主要不違法當中我們要去照顧最弱勢的團體院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12660.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12686.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
剛才我聽到很多我們的董事說得好 回答也好 說得也好在最近本縣要跟你談到的你如果聽起來一個支援少將探望一台電瓶箱一個是退休 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12688.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12710.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
為了做工地的來賓來做事一個半七天晚一個時間一台電電箱花六天八個月 院長本市在這裡 要你做好事我們都不能跟別人做派 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12712.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12726.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
就算沒有受到我們的我們不可以站在那裡沒辦法也不可能第一他國安 國家的問題是很嚴重的所以院長 部長你看這個判決的時候你會覺得很失禮嗎剛才我們的董事長有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12738.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12755.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
他在去年遊營來到台灣他說要愛好台灣 台灣自由的國家現在讓我們乖乖的在後面 要送回去阿強啊 遺都不回 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12757.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12766.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
結果在台灣趴趴走像奧米威一樣騎一台摩托車四駕七射你如果想想看 院長 部長這樣是教派孩子大小讓阿強那邊人為最主要要來台灣很方便的 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12784.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12791.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
講話不聽 補充 院長 你聽好他不一定是這條地盤來的他現在放一個 放兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12793.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12812.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
老公會放五個放十個 未來如果一直放的時候他都不收的時候 這才是事情的嚴重啦所以補充 院長 我們要有看怎樣才對啦剛才補充說的 跟我們哥哥想看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12816.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12834.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
我說他這個不對 又出來說台灣的不對我們今天不可以用咖喱來扣的他們這個出來 還要多寒的報道用電話而已啦所以保證在這個問題當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12837.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12861.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
要如何是好來補充立委答謝感謝委員的關心剛才委員講得非常清楚我們針對移民法裡面要怎麼加重加重加重才會出分來做修緩但是因為破關的部分是歡迎你的破關可能我們提供的這個訴訟金額要再加多我知道 歡迎破關支持補充跟院長 我又說批准給你聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12863.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12875.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
為了危害國家的安全他破解了這檔位這個小鳥騎了一台特別輸我沒有鼓勵他做派喔這是兩天避開什麼人那麼嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12880.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12901.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
所以國家的安全是非常重要軍人或是公務員對國家的忠誠跟清廉是必要的條件來自中國的這種任何行為的偷渡客我們對他是零信任任何在台灣之後他如果在收容期間有任何的違法行為我們必須採取 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12926.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12928.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
好 謝謝王委員 謝謝卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12932.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12956.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
下一位羅美玲委員之質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報報告委員會內政組織質詢已詢答完畢本次會議未有委員提出臨時提案就不進行臨時提案之處理下午2點30分繼續開會進行外交及國防組織質詢現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
21589.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
21596.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
保安委員會現在繼續開會進行外交及國防組織諮詢請陳永康委員諮詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
21621.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
21625.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
主席有請卓院長請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
21635.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
21653.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
董事長您好 辛苦了不會 大家辛苦當全球面對動態的世界變局對每一個國家的政府都是一項挑戰而且區域性的不穩定似乎也變成了一種常態 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
21654.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
21666.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
在這種情況下那麼國家安全戰略提供個預印前瞻的預印方法我覺得是對任何一個政府都需要在這個方面琢磨的在我們這個雙十國慶的時候賴總統有特別提出了對國防建設上的幾個指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
21683.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
21699.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
第一個是加速打造台灣之盾構建台灣分層防禦高度感知有效攔截的嚴密防空系統為台灣編織保護人民生命財產安全的一個防護網 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
21701.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
21717.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
第二个是加强引进结合高科技以及AI的技术构建智慧化防御系统作战体系那么要发挥不对称的战略嚇阻效能第三个是持续投资国防创新科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
21718.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
21747.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
与先进国家的工业产业合作厚植国防与军工的实力那么透过在地研发设计生产制造深化本土的供应链提升产业加强军备韧性提升国防能力也成为盟友信赖的伙伴这个范围您是不是给我们一些论述跟方向好 刚刚陈同委员所说 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
21749.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
21773.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
在面對地緣政治的變化快速而且我們無法預先知道所以如何強化我國的國防成為我們一個不僅自我保護也是展現我們和平實力的一個象徵那麼全世界也應該在這個體驗之下各自負擔自己國家或區域上面的一些責任跟付出 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
21774.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
21799.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
所以台灣身為國際組織的一份子我們認為我們應該盡到國際的這樣的責任對區域的和平我們強化自己那世界上現在已經有相當多足以我們可以學習的經驗跟合作的對象我們採取這樣的方式能夠在短時間內將台灣的國防安全能夠全速的提升所以總統提出台灣之盾我想世界上也頗有先例也有成功的例子 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
21799.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
21825.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我們正可以在這個基礎上予以更多的經驗跟改進那麼希望這樣的作用不是我們要去挑釁發動而是希望能夠遏止或是讓對方有所戒心他必須考慮不要付出代價要來維持區域的和平而不是付出代價來併吞台灣這兩個選擇之間我覺得我們應該是可以很清楚的表達國家的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
21826.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
21854.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
謝謝我也把一些歷史的背景給您做一個說明在20年前國防部就有一個整合三軍徵收系統的案子叫做博勝案後來改成訓安在這個大的指揮架構下其實各軍有它自己的系統啟動最早的是空軍它叫天網計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
21855.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
21883.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
然后变成墙网计划变成环网计划变成现在的环展计划那么海军从大层系统变成连层系统那么陆军就是从当年的博盛跟迅安他只有在军团级的分享战略性的战场状况但是只能收驯并不能下售现在陆军开始发展了所谓的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
21884.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
21904.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
锐子系统是希望从旅机以下向下直导一直可以到连级甚至排级都能够受训现在我们面临的挑战是这些系统原本发展过程中间它的合作对象像空军的合作对象经历了很多的变化不同的国外厂商 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
21905.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
21917.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
所以說在國防部的指揮中心空軍使用的符號跟海軍使用的符號跟陸軍使用的看到的符號這個是不同的將來要發展所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
21920.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
21936.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
臺灣之盾我們必須面對總統給我們一個很大的使命但是對國防及國防產業來講就是一個巨大的責任跟挑戰必須以中科院作為藉口的對面跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
21937.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
21964.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
國際的國防先進廠商來談因為當年的規格不同 界面不同所以產生的符號不同雖然我們都可以看到相同的畫面但是不同的符號也不能做任務分配只是分享情資在這個情況下我們下面要做的是什麼呢各位看到我們希望看到的台灣周遭所有的大區域的戰略環境的圖片 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
21965.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
21990.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
我们希望能够要做除了分享以外过去我们最早叫C4ISR就是Command Control Communication还有Computer介入了包括情资 监侦 搜索现在变成C5ISRT了这个5I的C第五个就是Cyber Security |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
21992.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
22011.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
另外那個T就是從原先的徵收掌握狀況目標獲得到現在要分配目標這個距離的時間反應很短所以這個所謂的未來的台灣盾就等於說要把不同的美國的I2 I3 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
22012.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
22038.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
国产的天弓二天弓三甚至强弓天弓四还有其他的中高低层的所有的武器包括飞机载台船上发射透过不同的天空的卫星的无人机的预警机的地面的机动站的固定站这些所有的情织要做整合最后掌握关键的时间有效精准的分配目标 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
22040.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
22066.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
這個是一個很重要的總統的指導既然已經很明確了下面我就要給部長做一個建議在我們的國防報告書裡面還在寫我們的作戰構想是去中心化這個是網路中心化但是是分散配置所以作戰構想裡面沒有去中心化你的職管如果去中心化就代表這個系統崩盤了 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
22067.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
22082.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
那只是在作戰區的小部隊那叫去中心化因此它的準則叫飯是不相同的在這個系統裡面各位可以看到多軌追蹤 情資融合整合網路 複合的圖像 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
22084.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
22107.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這個網路就等於說把我們所用的美軍的空軍用的link16海軍用link16跟link11陸軍是接收軍團級可以接收但是地面部隊沒有但是透過我們國內發展跟中科院有部分是我們國內商規的通信軟體導入在這次救災中間也有發揮一部分的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
22107.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
22113.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
但是它那個機器的複合讓兩三個鐘頭了可能就當機了所以還有發展改進的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
22118.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
22140.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
所以這個所謂的台灣之盾這個盾裡面是最重要的是要靠AI因為AI是一個非常有用的工具但是AI不會提供你解套的方案那這個工具包括什麼呢所有你的數據鏈路的介面包括我們的資料鋪包括我們自己作戰構想寫出來的algorithm |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
22141.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
22160.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
送進去那AI提供選項建議這個部分是需要我們國軍要共同努力的當然這個期程現在還沒有定我想在國防預算在成長的過程中間所謂的韌性包括資安包括衛星通信包括海嵐這個保護鏈因為目前我們跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
22167.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
22177.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
所謂的衛星的公司只有一個英國的OneWeb公司它的能力是受限的那我先把這個用下一張圖給你看這只是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
22178.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
22198.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
模擬的展示系統大家分享戰場即時的畫面但是各軍的符號不同並不能去管制它的火力只是顯示我們有這個能力把它整合起來透過雲端動態監視台雲端的機制 低軌衛星限地監測 戰傷評估遙測攻擊無人載台戰術通信 資訊通信 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
22204.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
22232.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
這是一個平台這個平台可以做什麼用處呢除了戰場大環境的顯示最主要是可以用在災防就像這一次我想這一次院長跟我們很多的部會所長也非常辛苦到了災區去我們應該在我們的災防中心建立一套顯示系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
22233.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
22247.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
那這個可以把國軍的一部分的區域性的大突擊輸入你只要看環境至於你的上面的符號可以自己設計自己標定最起碼我們看到災區看到一個大的土礦 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
22249.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
22274.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
這個比較重要的是什麼因為這一次馬太安溪的狀況花蓮變成大受災戶實質上我們的中央地方單位大家都投入在這個投入過程中間有的資訊並沒有辦法相互分享我給您做一個示範這張圖的底圖是用美國海洋大氣總署的3D圖做底圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
22276.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
22297.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
我們政府公佈了有各個地方溢流潰壩但是沒有辦法標註完整準確的位置所以9月23號燕塞湖溢流潰壩30分鐘洩露了出來多少匣的泥沙 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
22299.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
22323.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
這是報導 說是把堤的南邊沖毀了我們花蓮受了很大損失但是在9月25號的那天這個是日本的衛星照片所以你從日本衛星照片看出來它不只是潰堤 它已經從前面就已經把你城市沖進來了也就是說堤內已經破了 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
22324.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
22339.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
這個部分我們並沒有利用國內整合的機制讓當時救災的部隊或者是在預防的時候能夠看到所以透過國外公情資料能夠顯示任何一個災區的狀況我覺得對未來防災的 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
22344.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
22372.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
預防或者是災後的損害管制甚至救災人員投入救災人員的安全都是有幫助的您說的是9月25號晚上那個日本照片9月25號是不是圖像已經顯示出來就淹過了那個堤防內了所以說並不是只是堤破缺口它整個漫進來的那個量太大了這個是日本的衛星情報 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
22374.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
22394.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
因為我們在做防災做救災每一次得了一個經驗下一次就修正進去希望能夠做育嬰 減少災損我想中央指導地方地方配合中央大家要變成一個團隊因為資源有限 時間有限最主要是防災的反應時間非常有限 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
22396.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
22423.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
這個圖告訴我們了以後這個圖我最近跟顧部長提過了這個是在昨天的金門的就是中共的商船進入我們的禁縣制水域它還有很多的商船毛破就是圓圈圈的灰色的是把AIS關掉了你掌握不住不知道是哪個國籍所以要靠海巡的船出來執法去監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
22426.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
22448.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
這個負荷超過軍防部的能力那麼很多的責任是由海委會海巡署來承擔今天早上有委員跟您建議就是說中共在灰色地帶商漁船 機漁船進來如果我們監控回報能夠確定產生效益的話應該增加獎金 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
22449.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
22475.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
我建議把這個獎金捐給海巡署因為這個都是工型 完全可以掌握的強化海巡署 海巡的這個設備這個才是重要這個就是剛才兩點鐘抓的資料紅圈圈的是代表中國大陸的商船藍色的是我們中華民國籍這個把AS關掉的船明顯變少了 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
22476.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
22496.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
我个人认为是海巡在那边今天可能琢磨较深 失利比较大所以它很多的船就不敢关掉或者就离开了我觉得国防部跟海委会甚至陆委会因为国军不会跟对面去做对话但是站在管辖权跟执法的面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
22497.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
22523.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
海委會 海巡署是跟對方的海警是必須要溝通的那減低衝突 強化溝通我覺得這是可以努力的大家談到AI因為AI是一門市場無限但是這個景深大家都在談但是對AI到底怎麼運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
22525.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
22550.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
这个第一个就是说我们一个研发单位有一个构想长官接不接受先approved也叫AIapproved idea第二个我们的基础设施是不是在我们的施政报告已经纳入了authorized infrastructure第三个你的资讯怎么样强化甚至做你的这个软体的这个algorithm的 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
22551.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
22578.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
界面的整合最後進到AI所以說有核心的概念有互動的關係這個圖表我們事後提供做參考那這個就是現在當前的關鍵基礎設施了我們目前政府是把關鍵基礎設施把它名字列出來強調它的重要性那這個當然還有精進的空間我們運用AI不同的面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
22580.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
22606.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
把所有的關鍵基礎設施的互動關聯性牽扯出來了當某一個功能上司有沒有其他的補足有沒有的鍛煉那這個圖表實際上它是有三層但最重要的它強調第一的就是電網就是斷電如何強化電網不要被破壞或者是不要地方政府失去了質管能力因為我們的一般的 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
22607.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
22633.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
公共設施受消防安全法的規定地下室不能除油只有緊急發電機這個部分將來可以修法強化那才會將來在地下五層六層的停車場可以模仿以色列變成除油除水變成醫療設施那就是這個韌性的一個部分當我們市區沒有電了超商也沒有了 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
22634.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
22651.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
ATM machine不能提前了手机不通了这个时候如何恢复供电这个是社会任性的强度所以在这个状况下我们也看到政府的指导列出了核心的任务但是这个是垂直面向堆叠式的 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
22652.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
22668.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
后面我们希望把它发展出互动关系因为有一个脆弱点不能解决它可能把其他的政府的功能会拖住所以我们肯定政府的方向指导但是后面还要有强化的更新的空间 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
22670.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
22682.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
這個是海纜目前14條海纜那麼當然也有重化電信的也有不同的商業公司的它每一個海纜都跟格外的修復公司簽約所以商船來了要 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
22683.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
22705.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
就是修護纜船來了要修尤其是要等一兩個月但是目前斷纜的多半是本島到離島因為水淺大概60公尺80公尺所以一些惡意破壞的不管是漁船拖網或者是第三國掛旗的隱藏式的商船放下毛鏈去拖帶這個是可以監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
22706.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
22721.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
但是如果真正的海嵐功能喪失現階段我們跟英國OneWeb公司簽的通訊頻道因為沒有地面台的設施所以衛星通過的時候會產生時間的gap |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
22722.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
22750.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
因为目前没有地面站我们要用日本跟曼谷的地面站海揽传递因为OneWeb只有650颗卫星Starlink7000个卫星俄乌战争时候Starlink提供它了8400个地面站接收点并不是地面站但是每个站就有很多的老百姓去用手机但是我们这个状况下我们希望未来跟其他的卫星公司要多沟通因为光这个是不够的 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
22752.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
22775.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
国家安全战略是我个人一直期许我们的政府希望在这一任内能够一个公布一下官方版的国家安全战略因为我们的邻居友邦美国英国法国德国奥地利日本韩国都公布了官方版的国家安全战略 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
22776.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
22802.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
那麼國家安全戰略並不完全聚焦在國防軍事社會的韌性 醫療 能源各個東西都含括在內主要是說你設計了目標國家的實力 方法但是最主要就是影響我們的因素還有關切的問題包括了兩岸情勢外交政策 國防政策 經濟政策能源政策 資安政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
22803.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
22809.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
人口政策以及最重要的社會韌性最後國家安全在內三個重要的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
22811.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
22835.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
主要是和平避戰強化安全維護主權確保民主促進繁榮社會和諧所以我們看的這個國防的這個白皮書啊軍事戰略他是要嚇阻贏得戰爭但是國防戰略國家安全戰略的目的是贏得和平所以這裡面有很多跨部會的協商折衷妥協需要共同努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
22840.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
22869.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
面對嚴峻的變局是國安的挑戰所以我們有幾個面向外交 社會 醫療 能源產業 經濟 軍事 政治國家安全戰略是它的核心心系台灣行穩致遠就是說它每一個狀況都產生互動性而不是切開來單獨去談的目前我們成立了三個特別委員會總統很重視但是因為它不是政府的 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
22870.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
22894.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
常設編制那任務編組雖然有很多的專家學者企業界朋友提出好的建議我想在開完會以後啊當他們離開了剩下剩下的我們的部會首長在座協商的時候發現這裡面有很多的任務使命啊並沒有含括在他的年度預算或者是他要做的計劃執行人力複合啦時間反應啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
22895.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
22922.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
每個部會的人數也不同單綱的責任也不同要靠一個國家安全戰略做水平性的分工這個時候就不是每人20%有的35% 有的45%錢預算也不同 責任也不同下面我也請外交部長一起來一下因為我上次跟部長也做過溝通我們在今年4月看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
22924.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
22951.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
美國川普總統他提出關稅問題後因為他是一個玩大戰略手法的人從這個圖上你可以看到關稅談判不是他的目標是他的手段他的本質他說不只是經濟問題更是國安問題所以當他談到國安問題的時候他就把地緣政治 地緣戰略地緣經濟全部給抽出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
22952.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
22969.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
你從看這個圖上他設定了他的目的方法手段我們現在是在他的手段中去對應他我個人粗淺的看法這樣子我們去談判的人都委屈了吃虧了因為他很多的方法你要做預判在這個裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
22970.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
22994.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
他五轮谈判他其实可以再做第二回再来那跟中国大陆啊中国大陆就玩这个手法跟他两个在对峙但中间呢你看到他的财长商业部长有人眼白脸有人有黑脸那USTR的代表呢他是这个法律专家他左右调节都谈好了传口拍手再加压 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
22994.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
23022.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
于是又再回来一轮所以他们最主要是你要了解在这个谈判过程中你的承受度你的信赖度你的调节空间还有达成度去对应美国人讲的我先把你拆火拆掉最后拔隐性最后去风险不行就解构原来是脱钩不解构现在他连解构都不怕但一谈完了中国大陆就跟他又回到上面说 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
23024.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
23044.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
我們在APEC好好再談301條款本來說要寄出來現在又說要再研究所以等於說他沒有回到原點後面這張圖就是顯示了我們的總統跟院裡面同仁講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
23046.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
23072.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
如何五大策略的應變那將來我們在這個應變過程中間要加一些預印的參考值你要回頭看到的它的目的方法手段在階段性去把它破解這個就是這次美中五輪談判這個都是從公開的資料那這個談判的回路結果去證明前面要做結構性的分析是有利於我們的判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
23074.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
23095.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
這個東西我覺得是要大家共同努力那並不是談判代表以他專業只聚焦在那個領域裡面也就是說跨部會協商我的籌碼可以借給他來用或者是他談判的過程中間遭遇困難我來幫你演壞人因為這個一定要交替而不能從頭到尾演好人 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
23102.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
23103.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
這張圖表顯示了過去八年來從川普第一任 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
23112.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
23140.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
到拜登第一任再回头川普第二任他们在战略上的手法他的思维在这个里面对每一个国家来讲基于他的国家利益没有对错但是你发现里面有一个连贯性的分析他就是在这个虚线的圈圈内前后调节加码升温不行了我就退一步移到后面去要前面要施压了我就拉回来所以他永远玩的是什么 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
23141.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
23170.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
這個同步施壓法律作為那不行的話形塑氛圍軍演表態所以原來說破解現在可以重新的這個董軍跟Hexes在馬來西亞說我們可以再重新對話川普也說好朋友好朋友可以全世界都好朋友但是好朋友的口袋多深每個人想法不一致所以必須有一個完整的戰略讓你做預應那這個東西只是前後調節 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
23174.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
23192.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
老共說這個eBay我也不在乎我不願意打但也不怕打現在就是重新要來對話了可是美國在重新對話的同時各位看到這個是一個封面How to win the peace上面是一個和平歌 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
23193.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
23222.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
鸽子尾巴实际上是一个B2轰炸机美国在跟他谈要和平的时候宣布了我要恢复核武测试所以在国际上面永远是两手策略千万不要太善意掏底我是觉得要有所保留然后坏人交换来演这个对我们来讲以后的谈判我觉得是有帮助的下面一张图就讲出国家安全战略的关联性 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
23224.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
23240.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
国力包括治安 军事 经济 政治我们的利益有一般利益 特种利益长期利益 短期利益我们的价值观是民主 法治 自由 平等这中间有一个重要性就是国安重心 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
23242.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
23257.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
Center of gravity這個必須有一個公開版的國安戰略在跨部會之中間大家有所預行尤其是對國際的友盟他知道我的核心利益知道我會做什麼的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
23258.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
23286.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
在捏拿中间它不会下危险期那我们的风险可以略微降低至于我们的价值观是坚守我们的台湾的民主法治可是利益是可以交换的长利短利特种利益一般利益但这个纠结起来中间有三个C一个是国安重心一个是我们跨部会的共同行为依据code of conduct第三个就是说我们要有好几个选项 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
23287.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
23314.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
在這個糾結起來最後國際現實中大國式兩手策略對應雙重標準迫使談判代表妥協讓步我想今天的這個場合我跟兩位部長也做過溝通情誼也請院長在持續指導下我們還是有經濟的空間我們希望共同努力請院長給我們一點指導 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
23316.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
23331.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
非常感謝委員剛剛委員的兩段話第一段在國家安全軍事戰略上當然我佩服委員我沒有辦法像委員這麼的專業那至於後面這一段就是台美談判的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
23332.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
23349.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
我可以這麼形容委員委員是掌握資訊觀察入圍如臨現場幾乎達到知己知彼的這個境界這非常佩服不過我認為美中跟美台之間的談判它有一個最基本的結構不同就是美中之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
23350.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
23364.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
對立性比較強美台之間互利性比較強所以在這情況底下我們當然有談判的策略但我們是基於互相有利益的發展情況下並不是採取像美中之間談談打打停停談談的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
23365.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
23384.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我覺得我們這樣會比較贏得國際的信任跟互相合作的基礎那我們在基礎上我們還是以國家的利益產業的利益國人的安全跟糧食安全國人健康這四項原則跟美方進行我們應該有的談判爭取最有利於國家的未來的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
23387.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
23405.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
謝謝兩位部長平常我們在委員會中間可以充分溝通當然我們大家都發現還有努力的空間因為時間有限 資源有限 人力有限怎麼樣做最好的發揮還是要從上層給一個明確的國家安全戰略指導跨部會的協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
23406.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
23427.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
社會的韌性它的重要性其實跟戰略的嚇阻力是相同的重要地方政府也必須要秉於這個方法共同努力希望產生一個同步同調一個國家的施政方針謝謝今天這個長官麗玲也謝謝院長我們的互動指導謝謝謝謝文子將謝謝陳委員謝謝卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
23435.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
23457.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
下一位我們請黃仁委員質詢有請院長還有國防部長卓院長還有國防部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
23472.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
23499.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
黃偉好院長好我是簡單講一下就是你來回答我一下院長你是中華民國的行政院長對吧是好 部長你是中華民國的國防部長對吧是好 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
23500.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
23527.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
所以以下大概我們來探討一下最近我們在陸軍的一些問題我們的國軍不管是山軍陸海空都是中華民國的空軍海軍陸軍陸軍是中華民國的陸軍最近在 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
23533.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
23558.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
584旅 聯兵三營也是中華民國的部隊的方號請問一下院長 部長我們在N1A2T曾經的備章上為什麼是台灣的阿密不是R5C的阿密 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
23559.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
23585.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
這個就是我現在要講的中華民國的入京就是入京不是台灣的入京所以這個就是要詮釋一下院長你來做一個說明你剛剛兩個答案都出來了你是中華民國的院長你是中華民國的國防部長為什麼在陳軍的過程裡面的備章 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
23586.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
23604.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
是台灣的阿密而不是ROC的阿密所以這個就是你要解釋給國人聽因為這個是不能改變的中華民國的陸軍空軍海軍就是中華民國的國軍我想你來說明一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
23606.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
23631.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
我想跟委員報告我想你也看過我想任何我們陸軍的迷彩虎上面我們左胸就寫個中華民國陸軍所以這是沒有問題的那麼M1A2T的那個後面那個T那個字就是台灣的意思也就是說它是專門為台灣打造的一個專屬的一個戰車的形式那這一個備章是一個紀念的備章 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
23633.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
23641.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
所以美國基於台灣關係法跟對台六項保證提供了我們這樣子的一個防衛性武器然後也專門為我們打造這樣子的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
23644.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
23672.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
號稱地表最強戰車的這個我們為了紀念這一個所以在陳軍的備章上面它是一個紀念的備章所以它結合了專屬的台灣的新式戰車的型號來齊勉國軍來瞭解國家跟國人的期許來堅定守護台灣的一個信念我想我們堅定的為中華民國的生存發展跟臺盟金馬人民安全負責的戰我想這個信念是不會改變的 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
23674.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
23690.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
因為我講這個大家都會產生一個存疑這個存疑就是我們就照陸軍的說法這支部隊只守護台灣拋棄了金門因為金門是福建省 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
23691.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
23703.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
所以媒體說了 軍方人士提到 備章不只是軍事識別標示更是一份榮耀的象徵所以我們中華民國的陸軍就是陸軍如果以按照你的思維來講 就沒有金馬了 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
23715.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
23739.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
是不是 就沒有金馬了嘛所以這樣的話會台澎金馬意思是中華民國現在有效的統治領域所以中華民國的入金就好了嘛為什麼一定要用台灣阿密那這樣的話你就把金門取革了所以這個就是一個人家不了解但是你的說明也許大家還是不諒解為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
23740.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
23768.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
中華民國入侵就是入侵就那麼簡單它是包含了台澎金馬嘛不知道你們現在你們回應的媒體軍方人士那個T寫個Taiwan難道這個戰車就不會保衛台澎金馬的人民而戰嗎不是這個意思吧對嘛不管怎麼樣不能改變沒有改變這還是定下定論 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
23769.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
23782.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
他的中華民國的陸軍我想這個會這個會有不同的一些思維讓人家會錯綜的一個一個錯覺所以按照這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
23785.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
23809.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
所謂的不知道這個媒體這位回應媒體的金方人士是誰但是一個國家的軍隊連自己國家的名稱都不要的話還叫什麼榮耀我講迷彩壺上面都有中華民國入軍這個沒有改變這個都秀在迷彩壺上面如果你們再回答憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
23812.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
23837.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
138條還有139條的內容是什麼內容是什麼就是全國陸海空襲超出個人定義及黨派關係以外效忠國家愛護人民第139條規定任何黨派及個人不得以武裝力量為珍惜之功績都是在確立精對的國家化 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
23838.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
23849.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
報告委員這段話這個憲法的精神是經過多少民主運動發展到現在才有軍隊國家化這個結果的所以我們要共同維護憲法的138條跟憲法的139條很明確 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
23854.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
23873.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
為什麼一定要加個台灣阿咪中華民國的阿咪國軍堅持軍隊國家化的立場不會改變國軍也不會因為有一個紀念碑章我們買了M1A2T這個T後面代表台灣這個意思就不會說我們會 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
23876.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
23894.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
拋棄這個軍隊國家化的基本理念我們也不會說我們不為颱風金馬人民鬍子而戰我們一定都為颱風金馬人民鬍子而戰嘛那這個是一個紀念性的備章有需要把它擴大解釋到說不管新進的武器進來它就是國軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
23898.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
23927.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
在预付到哪一个陆军空军都是中华民国的国军那我想意识形态会有注入到这个我们没有要搞意识形态那如果我是老百姓他们认为这就是意识形态了嘛对不对他们认为就是意识形态的一些象征性的嘛所以这个就是我们不要去多创造名词本来它就是我们 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
23928.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
23951.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
武器的命名就是中華民國的陸軍就那麼簡單報告我剛剛部長也跟您說過在左胸都有中華民國陸軍的一個名牌在這裡就跟委員現在身上的衣服一樣你的右胸有個中國國民黨黨徽左邊有的您的大名如果黨徽遮住並不代表你就不是中國國民黨剛剛我講了不要再多 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
23957.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
23985.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
都創造一個名詞沒有創造這是橫平性的問題整體性也就是那麼簡單所以我穿這個是因為代表國民黨對對對就是這樣子我們有中華民國陸軍那備章只是備章那我想這個名詞裡面就有涵蓋了一點點的沒有沒有如果是紀念性的備章紀念性質大於沒有完全是紀念性質那就要跟國人好好的解釋為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
23986.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
24000.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
會有這樣的一個多加了一個台灣的名詞因為它本來就很單純的在憲法裡面的138條跟憲法裡面的139條很清楚的它就是定格 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
24001.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
24018.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
中華民國的陸海空M1A2那個T那個T難道就表示我們拿到M1A2T這個戰車布袋難道不是為中華民國剛剛已經解釋了我們就不要多加這樣的名詞造成國人對這個名詞上 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
24021.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
24038.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
會是不是有它的含義跟意識形態嘛所以我今天謝謝委員 我們今天說明之後我想國人會清楚這是一個紀念性的一章我希望國人會清楚如果今天不談這些的話老百姓怎麼了解嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
24039.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
24054.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
因為你是不是多加了這樣的一個名詞所以今天我們這樣的一個對話我也希望國人了解沒有任何的意識形態他就是你們國軍定名出來的因為他具有代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
24056.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
24072.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
紀念的意義所在這樣也許百姓就知道了 好不好那另外就是切兵的問題我想請教一下院長 部長在國進切兵的問題已經是一個場景非常嚴重的一個問題想請教一下目前國進主戰部隊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
24076.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
24105.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
邊線比到底是如何因為國防部常常用平均值這個玩數字的遊戲本身希望部長能夠回答詳細一點現在目前招兵的問題跟邊線比到底出了什麼樣的問題待會我有一一的一些個人的看法來 部長你先回答一下跟委員報告我想我們在這裡只能回答整體的邊線比 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
24106.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
24128.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
現在整體的邊線比在政府支持跟各項推動下迄今整體的邊線比是79.2%了已經較去年 較3月3月的整體邊線比是76.9%所以到現在為止應該提升了跟3月來比已經提升了2.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
24130.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
24154.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
這個表示我們相關的人性化管理也好或者4月、7月、8月分別調整這一個加急應該都是有幫助我想個別的邊線筆並不適宜再做公開的調整因為這涉及到各部隊的問題所以我想我們只能回答整體的邊線筆我想本席有整理了一些資料在我們的整個的一個主戰部隊中的邊線筆第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
24156.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
24162.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
顯示國防圈圓問題的複雜性首先邊線比實際的下滑根據資料2020約88.57%到去年已經下降約為78.6% |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
24174.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
24201.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
下降為4%所以這個已經反映什麼主戰部隊的邊線比問題就是在於自願役人數的減少2021年還有約16萬過去到去年的6月已經降至到15萬此外 所備部隊的問題也不小由於少子化的問題我想我們整體的人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
24202.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
24219.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
因為編制 我們編制有擴大所以我們的人力是有成長你剛剛從平行紙裡面來做一個數據嘛但是我今天分析了調查了整個的一個數據剛剛我已經分析給你聽了嘛用一手指畫的問題未來和 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
24222.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
24242.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
可不可以增及其他的遇難人數可能到2030年就會少於7.5萬人這是未來這是我們一直推論所以我們的守備部隊嚴重的兵力的不足這個問題嚴重性從今年開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
24242.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
24268.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
7月份監察院的報告可以看出來報告指出部隊禁訓時缺人缺裝備人力部署會影響部隊信念的完整性及質量我們買了這麼多的美製的武器本身就以美金對於人員現有力的重視程度我們請院長和部長知道邊線筆的重要根據美國入侵條例220-1 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
24272.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
24289.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
2011的單位狀態報告和部隊登記這是很重要的人員現有率和裝備及信念被並為列為部隊戰備的重要指標那美軍提供的人員現有率的參考值為我們C1達到了90%到100% |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
24299.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
24320.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
具備了完全執行任務的能力我們現有國金我們在C3百分之六十到七十九僅能執行的部分的任務僅能執行部分的任務為什麼因為這個比例就很清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
24321.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
24341.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
在作戰最低的標準中美軍更直接的指出在作戰的計畫中如果部隊現有力低於85%需要延後部署或任由其他單位支援如果低於80%即使裝備齊全也不視為即備作戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
24346.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
24369.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
部署的資格所以這個就是我們要警示了院長我們現在也要替我們國軍要提振這個就是已經警示的數據了我知道委員是關心國軍整體的戰力這個我們同樣關心那未來我們必須要從減少人力的流失提高流營的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
24369.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
24377.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
以及提升整個招募的成效各方面來加強提升國群整體戰力好 謝謝黃委員謝謝左院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
24404.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
24424.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
部長再請書面給黃委員沈伯陽委員之質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報報告委員會外交及國防組織質詢已詢答完畢休息十分鐘休息之後我們進行經濟組織質詢現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
25050.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
25075.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
發言會現在繼續開會進行經濟組織諮詢首先請郭委員國文諮詢主席有請卓院長跟拱部長請卓院長還有拱部長是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
25083.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
25111.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
郭委好 院長好 部長好我想最近這個烏山頭事件我們大家都看到了 老實講我對經濟部的表現不滿 院長因為反應實在太慢更何況我在10月9號的時候我就特別召開一個記者會要求部會出來說明清楚如果你是對的你就大聲講出來 除非你做錯結果一個影帶檢了超過一個禮拜才出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
25112.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
25136.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
整個政策都喪失了發言權甚至創造一個造謠的空間當然政策是可以監督的政策是可以被檢討的執政黨本來就應該面對滾動式檢討政策但是這幾年來我看經濟部的能源署是KPI部隊就如同環境部部長講的只懂得充量 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
25137.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
25162.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
不懂得去解釋政策以至於政策的正當性越來越弱甚至被汙名化所以我今天一開始就要跟院長跟部長來檢討這個政策政策復會總是慢慢拍這件事情從2022年的時候院長我再回顧一下早期的時候就有一個地面型的那時候叫大潮溝 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
25164.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
25187.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
大家常常說水面型的 浮棚式的水面型的那個水面型的時候在2200公頃當中 它做十分之一那面積非常的大當初在2000多公頃 它會影響到生活也可能會影響到生態因為很多漁民在那邊弄 我把它擋下來了我費盡很多的方法把它擋下來但是我們都知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
25188.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
25206.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
在整個當地七股地區啊對這些太陽能光電板啊已經沒有辦法再承受了國家的政策在承受院長站在你的高度部長站在你的高度你當然覺得綠能很重要啊R100啊半導體要輸出啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
25208.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
25238.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
但是問題是你既然這麼重要你怎麼不善盡溝通的機制呢你如果這麼重要你怎麼沒有一個比較完整的一個總量管制呢你如果這麼重要的話那麼該環評的機制你早就應該進行啊不是嗎院長你如果說這麼重要的話你早就應該出來跟在地的居民講清楚這一個啊整個太陽光電板啊老實說啊現在社會的支持度啊越來越低 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
25240.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
25264.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
越來越低而且甚至大家說你都不要再來我認為依照目前的狀況院長應該要要求部長好好說明平常就要科普了平常就要科普 必要的時候下鄉政策的溝通態度要一直有不要一直蓋面對這個問題我很想聽聽院長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
25266.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
25274.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
你們怎麼去面對現階段整個太陽能供電板失去震盪性的狀況底下將來怎麼推動綠能首先 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
25275.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
25299.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
這個委員剛剛所說的部長應該經常科普下鄉我覺得你應該也看到部長經常為了各種事情到各地方去包括救災包括地方的中小企業等等那能源的發展當然是國家的重大政策但是我們也認為應該跟地方要取得更高的共識如果對於地方的這個環境有所影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
25299.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
25328.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
地方政府跟人士都不予接受的話那這個實行起來是非常非常困難的面積太小或者是說他這個威脅性太大這個實行起來也不切實際所以我一直主張太小的面積地方政府如果不同意或者是說對生態敏感地區有影響那我們應該不要開發這樣的一個能源開發的一個場域這個是現在的想法那未來對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
25329.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
25343.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
水庫 水面上以及敏感地區各種環境部有在考慮一定的規模以上必須要經過怎麼樣更嚴謹的環評程序這個我們都會來持續做我覺得該擱置的要擱置你們要來補掌請10月9號發生以後是基本上因為那個時候剛好廉價但是我們也發了三篇的新聞稿9號 11號 13號 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
25352.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
25369.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
委員指教就是說希望我可以下鄉去說明我也會跑這樣來辦理第三個就是七股的部分我們現在已經擬定了就是61號線以西的話大概就是不會再開發了以東也要開發也要環境檢核 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
25370.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
25396.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
不但是整個61縣以西當初台南市就地方就已經決議說不再開發整個七股的這個負擔也過重也不應該讓單一地區負擔過重但是就這個現象來說你知道嗎所有這些太陽光電業者基本上都悶不吭聲他們給人家印象就只會賺錢政策也不辯護我就舉一個例子就好了硬中你講話太陽光電 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
25399.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
25426.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
在那邊種那麼多電但是整個當那是颱風的時候你有沒有看過哪些業者出來救災有啦 事實上院長有去看那個你有沒有看到哪些業者在救災對啊 現在就是大家都說有事的時候你也沒有出來對啊 在嘉義那一場我只希望他建樹在時間內把他的場域給他清除完畢只有多少有台積電台積電有出來幫忙一些學校的復建其他有沒有看到一些業者出面啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
25427.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
25450.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
所以基本上我們應該對負擔國家政策的地方你也應該相對要有國家的一個建設你有沒有去處理 有沒有思考我好不容易爭取一個極西點的國際燈塔老實講 到現在懸而未決院長 這第一個第二個 七股校區台南大學的七股校區在那邊荒廢多池 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
25451.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
25471.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
那個應該也要思考一個國家計畫去彌補當地人的不平甚至他的整個公墓用地已經弄完了是不是能夠新蓋一個國家級的體育公園等等這個我是不能請院長好好思考一下讓承擔國家政策區域多的地方也應該受到國家政策的照顧院長你的看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
25472.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
25495.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
國家對於各地方的均衡發展採取的都是同樣的想法地方有需要那我們投入多少的力量是衡量到整個國家的財力但也兼顧到均衡發展那這個發展會帶動地方快速周遭地區的同時進展的話那我們把例如優先 意思是說你不要把那一半放棄了要省一些技能啦 這樣又聽不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
25496.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
25515.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
但是我們在雖然不幸台南這次遭受了很大的風災政府也投入了相當的力量我們現在如何把它復原在復原的過程當中麻煩院長思考特別預算有600億然後國家建設能夠進來幫他投入拜託院長你好好思考一下民怨非常的高 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
25517.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
25534.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
更何況以這一次爭議非常大的過去沖涼所造成的違法事件讓整個正當性逐漸瓦解就這一次的整個水面型的光電水庫的光電的部分我去換算過全國的整個發電不過是0.02%整個裝置量不過是0.03GW整個溢度總共0.52溢度發電佔總體的部分只有0.02%而已總共供應14000戶用電而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
25546.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
25573.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
只有14000戶 這麼少結果你引起這麼多的衝突我覺得這個真的要檢討真的要好好檢討所有店都是雞少成多 雞殺成多好 我就是跟著部長 雞少成多怎麼雞少成多有一個雞少成多你們就不願意做嘛我跟你說 之前我就花了一些時間你們把一個整個未來整個太陽光店的部分還有5G的缺口的部分我認為這個不用再衝了 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
25574.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
25600.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
再衝下去的話社會正當性會越來越沒有真正能夠解決綠能的部分我之前就質詢過王美華部長興達廚藝電廠要轉成生殖能電廠的時候失敗後來就要積少成多的方式我找了郭智慧部長下去現在我多方協助協調農業部還有包括經濟部協調完之後明年就有一個新的生殖能源電廠要誕生了不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
25601.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
25620.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
但是可以累積如果以全國500萬噸的這個農廢料它可以解決農民的問題可以解決環境的問題甚至可以解決電源的問題發電的問題如果能夠把它能源化的話它最高的部分可以生產到11度而且有7GW的可能性我就不曉得為什麼一定要執著於光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
25621.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
25646.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
氣高的話就可以彌補你接下來五一度不夠的地方啊我們事實上我們都支持的支持沒有做啊沒有做啊 院長為什麼沒有做你知道嗎我算過為什麼沒有做整個地方當中一下子又要經濟部一下子要農業部一下子其他的部會我真的建議那個院長你應該成立一個跨部會生殖能源的推動小組啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
25647.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
25672.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
成立這個小組當中把這個列為真正綠園的主要目標現在的生殖能就是早期發電現在的短縮價格是已經7塊多事實上我們都一直把它分開總共才0.1那我意思是說這個東西農民的農廢料也非常多你一開始會解決農業的問題又可以解決你綠能的缺電的問題這不是一舉多得嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
25674.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
25680.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
院長所以我們多元的發展綠能這都是其中的一項那我們如果可以開發 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
25681.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
25704.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
有意義的工作通常有困難性它雖然量不多但是對於整個社會的再循環再利用是有意義的總共有7GW的這個潛力總共有7GW的潛力所以我真的是跟院長說我們的綠能真的我們的能源政策要滾動式的檢討不然說你如果沒有滾動式的檢討你就變滾地式的被打 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
25706.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
25735.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
真的每天你要面對這麼多的能源壓力當中你去看都有這個可能性可是我去查過這個真的從來不是重點從來不是重點 院長就我知道雖然多元發展現在都跑到地熱去了這個我認為才比較有潛力的地方甚至連廚餘它都可以能源化廚餘都可以能源化而且這個農廢料在一般的農民當中跟廚餘都是生活上所造成的最大的困擾這個都可以去把它能源化 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
25735.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
25738.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
反倒是可以一舉多得了去選的位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
25741.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
25766.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
院長 我可以跟我們報告如果是生殖能的發電跟地熱比起來生殖能發電它的可行性以及它的時程上是更可相信的更高 沒有錯 更高我自己評估過也是如此所以應該把它列為重點所以我真的是請院長跟部長好好思考一下把它列為重點另外一個部分除了我們面臨政策的汙名化之外我們面臨整個社會兩極化這一次我在旗鼓救災的時候就發現一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
25767.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
25795.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
很令人傷心的事情很多我們因為對貧窮中低收入戶的定義非常的嚴越來越嚴的情況底下許許多多的邊緣戶我們都還去媒合企業跟愛心團體出錢出力到現在還在幫他們修復房子喔到現在還在修復房子喔主要原因是你看我們的整個貧窮的定義只有1.13%的人口但是在其他的國家不是16%就15% 17%不是我們比較少是我們定義過嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
25796.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
25820.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
再讓整個院長看一下右手邊的部分整個家庭財富最高的成長這30年成長了3.93倍家庭所得的呢這個最低的20%-1.1%人均的部分3.67倍 增加3.67倍平均薪資的時候多2.7倍股市更不用講 多了26倍但是呢 貧窮的人越貧窮 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
25823.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
25840.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
貧窮的越貧窮所以我是想說 院長我們經過這十幾年的執政邁向第十年的執政的情況底下我們的財政紀律我們要更有信心整個目前佔GDP比的部分我們目前只有25.8%預計今年會降到24.3%比法定的40.6% 老實講越來越遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
25848.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
25854.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
那如何增加這個社會安全網增加這個社會的韌性跟認同是必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
25855.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
25881.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
我們請院長在這個部分多思考一下怎麼去面對這個問題來解決這個問題讓兩極化的現象得以改善 院長隨著經濟的發展檢討低收中低收的這個門檻線我覺得這是我們現在想做的也是我在跟一些部會在討論過程當中我們如果提高整個社會安全體系的時候這個線一定要往上合理的調升但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
25882.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
25893.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
委員現在所列出來的26萬只是低收啦如果我們加上中低的話會達到52萬如果再加上一些包括其他的社會救助的中低收的生活津貼等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
25895.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
25916.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
這個邊緣保全會達到196萬就是我們政府的社政府支持有擴大雖然線是劃在這裡但是我們盡量把它擴大那討論這條線的時候我們要有一個十足的合理的論述才不會讓外界人家說國家變窮其實不是是國家變富了 照顧變多了但是窮的人沒有變富 窮的反而越來越窮政府的支持要增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
25918.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
25937.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
那20%就是我們去累積出來的我們從廣義的負擔算出來之後這群人就是在那20%以下的他整個財富是買納死的30年 失落了30年所以這個部分我真的是看到這兩極化的遊行也請院長多費心好不好請葉主委說明一下跟委員報告一下委員這個表 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
25939.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
25957.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
計算的是低收入戶但是我們在計算貧窮線的時候是以可支配所的中位數你事後再給我資料我還有一個問題要跟院長講清楚一下院長還有一個少子化的問題少子化的問題現在少子化大家都非常清楚但是現在就一個韓國韓國為了提高生意率的話他投入的經費高達2160億台幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
25961.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
25989.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
相對於這個部分台灣相對比較少美國甚至有教育的儲蓄賬戶但是台灣的這個部分其實是有可能現在台灣現在ETF其實蠻盛情的有沒有可能從小孩子的時候0歲的時候到11歲的時候提撥讓一部分的預算常態性的讓他們擁有ETF到長大的時候當大人的時候他可以拿到人生的第一桶金院長有沒有可能這種可能考慮是三件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
25996.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
26024.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
生小孩是國家的責任生小孩是國家的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
26028.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
26056.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
好 謝謝郭委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請林德福委員質詢謝謝 謝謝我們今天大會主席江戶院長是不是請那個卓院長還有這個工部長還有農業部的陳部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
26057.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
26059.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
請左院長、工部長、陳部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
26069.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
26092.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
林委員好我想台肥民營化多年但是因為這個農業部是大股東再加上董事會政府官派代表占多數時常被要求要配合政府的政策比如說要台肥發揮企業社會的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
26094.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
26106.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
吸收原物料上漲的成本以維持肥料售價不要調漲根據資料農業部從台肥獲取的股利112年5億8971萬113年6億1330萬114年4億9536萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
26121.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
26122.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我請問農業部114年從台肥貨的鼓勵減少了1億 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
26130.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
26151.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
1794萬相較於113年的鼓勵減少了19%啦是否與配合政府相關政策有關還是有其他的因素來影響我跟委員報告就是台肥為了配合我們的肥料政策當年在COVID-19的時候國外的肥料原物料上漲的時候它還是原來的價格 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
26152.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
26169.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
那到了113 114年的時候他仍然維持這樣的一個肥料價格以加惠我們的農民所以換句話說他的利潤就變少了一點所以這個部分是台肥因為配合國家的政策而減少這個盈餘的收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
26171.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
26193.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
雖然台肥已經民營化但是台肥有龐大的土地開發利益或是金人民眾擔心有利益輸送的問題廣大的股民也關心台肥的股價以及未來的獲利一般民眾關心政府投資台肥利益是否全民共享 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
26195.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
26213.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
我跟委員報告台肥是一個上市的公司上市的公司當然會以股東的權益為重但是台肥又必須肩負的支持我們的農業友善我們大地的核心精神所以在這兩者之間會取得一個適當的平衡它的股價的EPS大概每年都是2點多 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
26216.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
26231.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
因為本席要提醒農業部既然能主導台肥的人事提名派出的董事要做台肥公司的治理避免發生圖利或內線交易等等這些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
26235.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
26261.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
台回李孫龍前董事長原來的任期是到2027年的6月25日然而上週五10月31日發布台回重大的訊息就是本來將由吳英齡來接棒那外界就好奇台回前董事長李孫龍突然下台的主要原因何在 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
26264.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
26292.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
為什麼主要他一下子說這個原來他是要到2027年的6月25號那為什麼突然間他就下來人事的調整異動當然有他特殊的原因那這個原因我們現在在過程當中有等到這個能夠跟大家來報告的時候自然會報告我們認為未來台肥的經營的方針應該有三個順序第一個照顧全體的農民 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
26293.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
26309.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
第二個維持公司的利益第三個在土地資產管理過程當中要避免不當的被外界聯想或是內部的管控要嚴謹必須要有這樣的方式才能夠符合 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
26309.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
26328.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
他整個經營的宗旨因為外界當然在質疑本來是要發布就是由中大訊息那時候是由吳英寧來接棒那最後變成張昌郎就是總經理來做為新任的董事長所以說很多人就認為說原來2027年6月25日才到期的這個李孫龍前董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
26334.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
26361.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
突然間所以說講實在話外界的觀感實在是不好那是否是因為台肥獲利衰退股價從64元跌到48元有關還是有其他的原因我想請農業部要說明撤換台肥李孫龍前董事長的主要原因讓社會大眾大家了解對不對不是隨便亦以待過 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
26362.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
26380.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
你最起碼要有什麼原因說今天本來要吳英齡那因為整個外界社會各界大家都針對這個問題不能接受再撻伐然後你們趕快要總經理上來來頂替目前的整個狀況就是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
26381.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
26399.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
對不對 那個部長你有什麼看法來我跟委員報告就是先前的董事長他其實有一個階段性的任務他完成了那我們針對台北本身就成如剛才院長所提示的我們針對員工的內部的一個管理制度跟福利政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
26400.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
26420.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
然後對農民的一個肥料的一個品質提升的一個政策然後還有一些對土地的利用的一個政策我們希望說透過專業經理人就是現在的張昌南原來是總經理現在變董事長他是一個專業經理人所以我們希望說能夠朝向更有制度化的一個因為畢竟他是一個上市上櫃公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
26421.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
26436.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
對 那你認為依您的觀點來看你認為這個張昌郎未來他整個營運操作各方面會比現在的就是卸任的李孫龍前董事長未來更強更棒嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
26436.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
26458.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
我想每一任的董事長都有他階段性的任務在這個階段 新的一個階段其實我們非常重視的是一個肥料本業特別是肥料品質的一個提升加重在一些我們現在所重視的反效性肥料的一個研發所以這個部分未來是一個重點也希望說透過這個能夠提高整個公司的一個獲利狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
26461.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
26474.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
因為專業經理人的好壞影響到整個公司的發展依據台回董事會成員及重要管理階層之接班規劃民營化的台回董事會整體應具備 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
26476.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
26496.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
這個下面的人力如下第一個 營運判斷能力第二個 會計及財務分析的能力第三個 就是經營管理的人力第四個 危機處理的人力第五 產業知識的人力包括國際 第六個就是國際市場觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
26498.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
26516.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
第七個就是領導能力以及最後的決策能力請農業部說明選擇吳英齡女士來擔任台北董事具備上述哪些能力你要她做董事你也最起碼給社會大眾能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
26517.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
26534.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
讓大家瞭解以減少外界質疑的浪聲那農業部未來希望台肥新任的董事長交出怎麼樣的成績有沒有具體數字跟目標比如說鼓勵重回2.5元以上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
26536.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
26555.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
我跟委員報告就是台北裡面的特別是公共董事那本身的不同的公共董事都有他的一個專長那特別您剛才所提到的文玲這個女士這個部分那基本上她長期了解到台灣農業的一個發展那我們希望說借重她這個對台灣農業特別是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
26556.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
26573.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
當時他在推動在北龍的一個員工的一個福利制度改革他可以提供很多的建言那我們希望說不同的不同的董事他都有不同的建言的方式能夠讓公司的治理會更好這第一個部分第二個部分我剛才說了整個台北本身的EPS大概就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
26574.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
26596.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
我們因為股價的震盪是跟外界是有關係的但是它本身的獲利大概EPS大概是2.1到2.6之間是在做這樣的一個浮動那還在相當的一個水準那我們當然也希望說透過更好的營運特別是對於不管是對於土地或者對於農產品本身的肥料的品牌的建構款式性肥料的開發那這樣的話能夠讓它的獲利更穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
26599.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
26611.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
那個院長我是希望不管各部會或者是這個國營單位你要用人為財對不對今天只要是人才我認為重用他 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
26612.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
26638.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
整個外界會給你們刮目相看但是你們要是用人用那種仇傭式的講實在話人家給你們打問號除了部長所說的其實委員剛剛所唸的那幾項當中我覺得吳玉玲董事她至少在產業知識跟經營管理上面是未來要借重她在這方面過去經驗希望如此 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
26639.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
26654.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
因為屏東縣10月15日確認禽流感病毒撲殺了差不多11萬隻的鵪鶉那我請問農業部到目前為止這個禽流感疫情是我還有沒有新增的案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
26656.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
26679.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
我跟委員報告每一年的9月開始一直到隔年的4月是我們針對整個情侶館高峰的一個監控時間到目前為止從去年9月到現在是兩場那一場就是您講的安存那整個撲殺大概是13萬隻左右那相對的比起前年20幾場到去年的也是差不多10幾場表示說我們國內對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
26681.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
26706.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
這些勤業的養殖業者對於生活安全的防範越來越有相關的一個觀念所以他的染病的這些頻度越來越低因為中央政府疫後強化經濟與社會韌性及全民共享經濟成果的特別預算在112年至114年度投入了10.5億的福島這些家庭的這些業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
26709.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
26731.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
加群業者來改善這些群社以及協助防疫以及提升生產的韌性然而實際狀況多數蛋農不願意升級改善他的群社據瞭解目前接受輔導的群社的占比前來差不多只有10%90%是傳統的群長 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
26735.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
26759.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
每年十月到隔年的三月秋冬時節為群流感好花的這些季節群流感影響整個國內雞蛋的生產本席不希望又上演缺蛋的問題農業部是否會加強來補助力道促使這些家群業者來升級群社 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
26760.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
26779.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
我跟委員報告升級勤設一直是農業部的一個政策也持續去輔導那現在他們在做改建的過程特別是水聯市的一個勤設它對於這種防範那個勤留館是有非常好的一個封閉的作用但是現在因為在改建的時候因為林碧設施它重新改建的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
26781.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
26805.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
周圍的這些鄰居擔心它越做越大所以它跟周圍的這些鄰居會有一個比較好的溝通農業部也積極的在協助他們做地方上的一個溝通第二個部分就是潛流管不只是前設的升級你用其他的方式也可以防止潛流管特別是生物安全防範的這些作為如果做得好的時候一樣可以達到一個很好的成果特別是像今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
26806.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
26828.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
我們預期說今年應該會有更少的比例會感染到禽流感好啦 希望如此啦多用一點心 卓院長還有拱部長我想有地方民生的議題想跟兩位來做探討台電準備在中和永和進行這個電塔遷移的地下化的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
26830.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
26852.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
那總院長您聽到了這邊會你會覺得很納悶因為電塔遷移跟地下化應該是好事因為要遷電塔跟地下化當然是好事那怎麼會有問題那個院長問題出在說台電拆了中和的電塔那在中和有辦說明會 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
26854.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
26865.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
你拆的地方你去辦說明會其實要拆掉街大歡喜 大家都歡迎但是要在永和蓋新的電塔卻沒有辦說明會 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
26867.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
26892.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
要蓋的地方沒有辦說明會要拆的地方有辦說明會台電只有在綜合地方召開說明會以後跳過整個永和很多那些基層的民意導致地方很不滿結果遭周遭社區的反彈因為他們現在做電塔已經做到一個程度整個差不多粉泥土都做好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
26892.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
26907.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
老百姓一看說這支電塔這麼大把前面幾支全部拆掉全部納在這裡所以說台電的承包商還對民眾民眾去反映還施暴打民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
26908.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
26938.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
那台電真的是有錯在先那本期是希望經濟部能夠端出台電在115年3月20號以前來評估板橋的青年線還有永和區堤外的電塔全面地下化來延伸第四電塔到第六電塔之間可行進的方案以及所需要的經費這是解決地方問題我們不是為反對來反對但是你拆掉的地方你去給他做說明會 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
26939.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
26957.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
那你要做的地方那些民眾都不知道當你做起來的時候他們當然會反彈啊公共工程要施工之前跟地方保持溝通是必要的如果這個程序上有所疏漏部長去督促台電台電要說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
26959.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
26982.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
地方的要求是希望全部都導入地下化我認為這是合理啦因為他已經有做一部分了差不多有做三分之二現在只剩三分之一那你要是說三分之一繼續做把它做好 解決地方問題好不好好 謝謝林委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請陳冠廷委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
27002.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
27006.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
請院長跟農業部部長委員長還有陳部長請備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
27019.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
27037.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
陳委員好 委員長好 部長好院長 我們一直都在呼籲說希望能夠減少放寬老農津貼的排富的門檻因為現在我們的國家第一個是財政相對比較寬裕而且我們這幾年的經濟成長率都很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
27037.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
27060.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
我們希望說經濟成長率好的部分它能夠包括到我們比較弱勢的族群所以陳部長在5月28日的委員會的時候也已經有公開的表態就是支持適度的來去放寬排富的門檻也承諾當周向行政院提一些相關的評估報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
27061.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
27088.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
現在距離那個時間點也差不多也過了半年了我想要確認一下目前的進度我在這邊先講一下台灣的人均所得在這近十年它已經成長超過兩倍但是我們的排富門檻還是一樣我們之前有自己在立法院我們自己有提案相關的案件我們是希望說至少要把原本的數字來提高到把它放寬到八百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
27089.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
27117.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
我想請教現在行政院建議的數字是多少還是有其他的數字請部長說明 部長來報告過我們還在研究 請部長說明我跟委員報告就是在前幾個月的立法院委員會的時候我就說明其實大家都 特別是很多委員期待特別是委員這邊期待農農進捏本身的排布財管應該是隨著不只是CPIE還有房價指數就是CIV的部分能夠調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
27118.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
27140.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
接下來我們就內部去看了這些CIV的值其實它也在過去從100年開始也提升大概40%多所以我們就針對這樣的一個帳幅的比例就是朝政的比例我們也設計了一些新的牌幅的條款我們也同時考慮到就是說四年如果它本身每一年的CPI |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
27142.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
27158.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
變異動過大的時候那是不是說在這個四年之間有一個機制能夠讓我們及時來處理那這個部分已經跟院裡面做了一些報告然後相關的這些法條現在正在審議那我們預計是希望在下個就是這個會期結束之前能夠送到立法院來 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
27159.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
27181.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
非常感謝 這個也是替我們所有的農民來表達這個心聲因為其實整個國家的經濟在成長它隨著物價 房價的增長它本身的價值不變但是因為它受到這個影響變得它反而要被排富掉了變得沒有辦法去領取這樣的津貼我想對這一些農民朋友們我認為是不太公平的 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
27182.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
27205.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
我也跟委員報告就是特別院長特別指示就是說其實農民所購買的房子他其實農民一輩子從事田裡面好不容易買到一個房子他不大可能為了這樣這樣子的一個生活就去賣這個房子所以相對的我們針對排富的這個房屋的所得的部分我們會依照這樣的原則去根據相關的一個模式去計算以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
27206.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
27229.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
做適度的一個提高希望能夠除了適度以外還是希望能夠對農民再好一點因為部長剛剛說的我們往更人性化來思考不要把它當作大家都會循法律上的可能的漏洞來跑人性化而且讓他年限的檢討能夠更彈性主要是為了實際可以加惠更多的農民非常感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
27230.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
27246.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
也希望這樣子的農民的心聲大家可以聽到接下來就再討論農民津貼老農津貼的這一個部分我們可以知道說我們現在如果說按照我們現在的經濟成長率的話再過一年到兩年我們是會超過人均所得10萬美元 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
27247.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
27270.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
但是人均所的4萬美元不代表是壽星階級它有相對的也是提升同樣的在腦農的部分它的津貼我想我們也要配合物價來去做一些調整過去腦農津貼大概是4年來去做一次調整所以我們可以看到說現在全球的經濟其實變化是非常快的物價的變化有時候也會很快速的再去變化 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
27271.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
27295.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
最近一次的調整我想是在今年1月那時候是從7550提高到8000多8100億這四個調整的週期在低通膨的時候問題不大但是在通膨速度加快的狀況之下可能已經明顯的不合理這部分想請教一下部長有沒有辦法改為兩年調整一次這樣子才可以來維持實質購買力的立法精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
27296.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
27309.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
謝謝委員的建議 事實上我們在做這個排富條款的這些設計的時候我們也同時考慮到這個部分因為每四年根據CPI在一般年的話應該還可以但是特別是在比較動盪的就是說經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
27311.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
27335.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
經濟的這些外在的因素比較有受影響的時候你的動盪比較大的時候那應該有適度的在四年之間是不是有一個彈性的調整事實上我們在設計的時候也設計了這樣子在四年還是維持四年但是在四年之間如果你的CPI達到了某一個比例以上的時候我們就會啟動一個調整的機制我們也是朝這個方向來設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
27336.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
27353.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
所以如果遇到這種物價指數有不符合常態的波動的話能夠做即時的調整對 我們大概還是以設計就是在這四年之間可能是兩年 大概是兩年的方式如果說它的CPI已經到達一定觸發的門檻的時候我們就會來啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
27355.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
27373.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
我們希望不是要給多啦我們是希望是及時來反映這個物價我們也是朝這個方向來思考報委員這有兩點必須要補充第一個就是我們現在有很多不同身分類別的社會保險的給付制度那我們第一個考慮它的衡平性 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
27374.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
27397.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
這是第一個再來對農民現在的給付到今天是比較低的如果大家討論的過程當中我們從農民先來做一個比較實際人性跟彈性的改革社會可以這樣接受的話我們從這裡開始未來是朝向整個橫平性一致性來做考量可能做這個階段性的調整的進程要這樣把它拉出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
27397.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
27421.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
我們今天講這麼多跟農民相關的原因是因為在我們經濟成長的這個果實他們很多是從資本所得但是這些農民朋友們他們所得的方式不是透過投資股票等等的所以對他們的協助一定最有感所以還是希望院長跟部長能夠來去多來調整那接下來要討論一下公定放年這之前在這個委員會我有質詢過 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
27423.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
27448.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
之前也提到從院長70多年前台灣推動跟著有期田讓29萬戶的這些電農可以有自己的土地這是一個成功的土地改革可是還有一些我們還沒有解決的問題我希望這個世代我們可以來把它解決掉工地放領這工地放領在宜蘭的大南澳的事辦進化就是要解決這些土地的問題讓當地的農民可以用合理的價格取得土地的所有權 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
27449.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
27466.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
想請教一下這個事辦的計畫有沒有可能擴及到全國那我們嘉義的農民有機會來去合法區的土地這個院長不知道有沒有相關的看法那農運部是不是支持這樣的計畫目前我們先行事辦是在大南澳地區的台拓地因為它在整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
27467.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
27481.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
過去的歷程當中他曾經達到相當程度的一個雙方政府跟這個土地使用權人之間的一個默契那他也是一直有租約的存在有耕作的事實那我們先把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
27482.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
27500.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
現行的這個台拓地部分先把它試用試辦把它完成因為它裡面牽涉到價值的認定申請的手續還有包括這個土地的價格怎麼去訂定年限訂在何時都還有相當複雜的問題我們先把它理出一套方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
27500.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
27512.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
這個先完成過去進行到一半的程序之後那用這個經驗在檢討二三階段持續的擴大總之總統一直指示常年來國人自己在使用的土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
27513.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
27533.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
不應該變成政府跟國人之間一再的一個緊張的狀態我們說如果讓真正在使用土地它能夠握有這個土地的使用權我覺得對土地的利用價值跟情感是持續升高的我們是希望說在一般的農業用地它可以參照大南澳的模式來辦理放令 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
27534.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
27559.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
這個部分希望院長能夠思考一下怎麼樣可以把這樣子的案例然後拓展到全國因為我們會按事辦然後按照時程來進行接下來要針對這個自從颱風之後的離農草跟農業保險我想第一線的心聲就是在但是颱風之後很多的農民都說不太想再種了想請問農業部有沒有接收到這樣子的訊息跟數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
27560.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
27589.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
我想我們在從丹拉茲颱風以後我們連續多了很多大豪雨還有楊柳颱風一直到花家渣颱風其實我們一直在產地也跟農民去座談然後也了解到農民本身因為天災所造成的影響這個影響的確讓很多年輕人失去這樣子繼續從農的一個信心所以怎麼樣降低農業經營的風險那個是我講我們農業部的責任也是我們農業部要做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
27590.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
27597.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
那農業保險它是不是有辦法做一個有效的一個方案來去把這個尼龍草做緩解 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
27598.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
27626.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
我跟委員說明就是農業保險本身它要靠過去的這些資料庫才能夠涉算相關的保險額度有一些作物它基本上它已經很完整了我們就再推了但是有一些作物而且是農民所希望開的部分但是很可惜過去的這些歷史資料並不完備並不完備的時候如果貿然開的話它的保費會比較貴相關的它獲得理賠的金額會比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
27626.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
27655.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
那如果冒然開的話反而會讓農民抱怨說他投保了高額的保險繳了高額的保險費可是理賠的時候理賠就非常少所以我們在這個之間我想我們一直要求我們試驗單位能夠更加緊的去建構這樣的一個資料庫那三年前這個陳吉仲前部長他任內有說要研議開發這個茶葉保險是不是我昨天詢問這個農金屬他說現在還是在研議中那研議的理由是不是也是你剛剛提到的這幾項的原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
27656.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
27657.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
對 但是茶葉的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
27659.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
27687.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
有演繹的差不多現在就是說分區因為茶的產區從北到南它有不同的海拔那不同海拔在劃分的時候也不能太細因為太細的話就失掉保險的這些精神可是又不能劃太大因為劃太大的話不同海拔之間本身的遭受到天然災害的話可能不一樣特別是低溫這個部分所以我們正在做這個細部的討論那我們相信這樣的一個討論如果確認了以後我們就會對外公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
27688.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
27688.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
27691.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
27720.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
剛才提到的這幾項都是跟農業相關的最後一項是跨族幾個不太一樣的部會但是也是跟農業是直接相關的就是我們每到採收季節的時候我們的阿里山梅山中湖鄉的農友們他們天還沒有亮就是要把這些青菜水果竹筍瓦箱送因為我們的山路是窄坡是陡的如果車身輕扭力大籌據短抓地利用的四輪傳動的貨車是農民會喜歡的車款我常常聽到他們在講說 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
27721.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
27751.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
他們比較喜歡的是類似像日本的這種成熟的輕型四輪小貨車那種輕型的托拉庫這樣子可是因為車商的評估當然這是市場經濟嘛他們認為說市場小那不敢進口不願投產所以我是覺得蠻遺憾就是說因為我們現在看到很多農用的這種小貨車那其實有的時候是使用的車齡已經非常久那它的污染性跟現在新型的這種輕型的這種托拉庫是完全不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
27753.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
27773.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
我有幾個重點跟建議我是希望說院長可以來考慮一下因為現在農業部是有運輸貨車跟冷藏車的補助原則上是補助大概是二分之一但是有上限就是貨車每輛大概是36萬 冷藏車是48萬現在的問題是說這些補助是限定在農民團體 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
27774.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
27783.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
比方說這個合作社產銷班等等的常見的結果就是我們剛剛提到的產銷在班的班長他要負責去做分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
27784.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
27808.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
如果大家都在同一個時間來去採收同一個團體的車是排不太過來的真的要用車的農民他可能排不太到變成就是要用這種可能是用家用的可能是用我們剛才提到的比較老舊式的有沒有可能再請院長跟部長來協調一下把補助開放給農民個人申請讓他們能夠有機會去再引進這些這些車種 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
27810.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
27834.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
請部長說明我跟委員報告第一個部分就是您剛才講的特別是在山區的部分因為山區本身它的車子跟一般平地的是差很多特別是牛力的部分所以我大概是前兩個禮拜也注意到這個問題我也要求我們的農糧署針對車子的這些我們有一定的補助本身要有不同的類別 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
27836.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
27864.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
不能是一致性的部分特別是針對山區或部落地區的這些車子的時候那第二個就是說您所提到因為我們現在補助都是農民團體為主那當初考量到就是說如果給農民的時候那基本上沒有辦法做控管因為我們是希望透過這樣的運輸車的補助是讓大家有共同集運的概念是用共同集運的概念去做補助那如果說喪失了這個共同集運的時候你補助給個別的農民的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
27866.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
27894.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
那個會沒完沒了所以我們現在目前還是鎖定在共同集運的部分但是我們會開放在共同集運的部分如果它有需要的時候不限一台我們可以再考量說有不同的方式來處理我們有強硬性說建議要怎麼樣的方式但是就是說不斷都有民眾跟我來講到說像日本的輕型的這種小貨車輕型的Torakus他們就直接甚至有直接講出哪些品牌哪些種類可是都一直沒有辦法引進 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
27895.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
27918.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
所以包含有些可能是跟財政部相關的可能農業部有機會的話我們希望跟財政部來討論一下包含牌照稅的是不是有這種暫緩免徵的這種其他的機制讓農民在採收的季節要在集運的時候他們可以用最好的車種最安全的車種也是最環保的方式來去把他們的貨品能夠安全的運下 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
27920.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
27923.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
好的 謝謝委員 我們來研究 請農業部來思考 謝謝好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝左院長下一位請陳秀寶委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
27952.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
27960.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
謝主席 請院長總院長請備詢農業部部長 經濟部部長政府部長 經濟部部長請備詢政委好 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
27968.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
27995.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
院長好我先來跟院長跟部長請教一個問題面對非洲豬瘟的危機防疫是非常重要目前我們的豬隻是禁運禁載請問我們什麼時候會解封我跟委員報告根據中央應變中心我們根據台中的案例場跟全國的這些豬場到目前為止基本上是安全的這個疫情並沒有擴散但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
27997.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
28018.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
這個時間點可能還要再追蹤三天所以在這兩天的時候我們目前的豬隻禁運建載還沒有解封對不對那現在網路上已經有訊息說11月7號恢復拍賣11月8號會有問題諸多上市這樣的訊息請問這樣子算不算是一個不確實不正確的訊息這是一個不確實的部分因為部長您知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
28019.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
28043.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
我知道所以我今天在中央應變中心我特別交代因為我要來立法院特別中央應變中心的記者會我要求我們的杜署長在記者會中間說明因為我們中央是根據動產條例28-1條既然部長您知道也掌握這個訊息就要處理因為縣市這樣自行宣布解封會造成訊息不同意也會造成這個防疫的困難度因為防疫是全民要一起努力的 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
28044.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
28070.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
但是如果有錯誤的訊息造成民眾的疑慮或恐慌我想這樣子是不適當的在這樣的防疫期間所以說這個我們遵守中央這邊的指示所以說這個有這樣錯誤訊息的話請你們儘速來處理好不好報告委員我們曾經在中央醫療中心說過未來解封依照動物傳染病防治法是由中央來宣布所以只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
28071.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
28091.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
一個時程 一個標準 一個指令不能有地方自己來宣布所以我要求中央應變中心跟農業部我們除了記者會之外要直接跟宣布的該縣市表達他這個宣布是違法是無效一定要等到中央指令一個指令 一個標準 一個動作 一個時程院長我們再來談關於廚餘的這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
28097.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
28121.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
台中處理廚餘的方式因為台中市每天有進200噸的廚餘去化可能有些困難所以之前他們會用挖坑堆粉掩埋這個方式作為緊急處理的方案事實上他們只是露天堆置廚餘沒有做任何防護的措施院長您看一下目前台中市處理廚餘的霧峰掩埋場旁邊就是烏溪 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
28122.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
28151.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
那烏溪的下游是本席的選區和美跟深港本席的鄉親農業用水大部分是跟烏溪息息相關那如果相關這個儲物與廢水有滲漏的問題是不是這個有問題的這個豬瘟的病毒有沒有可能隨著烏溪或是地下水流動到我們彰化那麼彰化的民眾是非常非常的擔心那台中市這樣子的做法以及他們有指出並沒有做防護措施的這些問題中央目前你們的態度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
28152.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
28165.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
我們跟委員一樣關心注意到整個廚餘去化因為台中案例場發生之後台中的廚餘是不能往外擴的不能送到其他縣市他只能在台中裡面來做處理他除了 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
28166.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
28183.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
像他在外埔有一個生殖的發電之外他救急只能用掩埋的方式那這個部分環境部已經多次到各個挖坑的地方去檢查過我們一再要求台中一定要按照標準來進行掩埋 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
28183.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
28211.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
因為它現在堆置的這些廚餘就是廚餘海 還有網友戲稱是艷澀湖它這樣露天的堆置如果沒有做防護的措施其實也會造成周邊民眾甚至我們彰化我們民眾的疑慮跟憂心所以這個部分我們現在中央有沒有請它立刻改善對於現在已經堆置在那裡的廚餘環境部已經成立了廚餘的中央前進的協調所 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
28212.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
28234.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
就直接要求地方政府一定要按照法規合法合規來處理我本身我也去到文山的一個野脈場去之前看到很多的報導是那種裸露的至少我去當天是已經鋪蓋了那我有沒有完全而且每天持續一直依照合法的處理環境部已經要求地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
28235.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
28252.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
環保局要強力的要求我們一定會注意到整個土質水質不容許被破壞而且更容易的是他不能讓所有的野生動物進來否則又蔓延出去的話後果不堪設想我也希望說針對這個廚餘的周邊我希望說相關單位應該要做水質的監測跟檢測這個我們有辦法做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
28259.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
28288.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
我跟委員報告這個是絕對有辦法做的而且中央衛生中心每一天針對各縣市的廚藝的掩埋場上是不是符合附土的規定是不是有做維理這個部分每一天都會要求縣市政府我提到水質監測跟檢測您說是可以做那請問什麼時候可以開始做必須在已經在這個環境部已經在做不是我們台水的部分是一定隨時在做要進水之前還要進水場出來都有在檢測 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
28290.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
28307.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
剛剛提到因為台水的取水口是比較上游所以比較OK但是沃西的下游我們這邊會有灌溉用水的確下游那個部分的確是要所以這個部分我希望說對這個水質的檢測跟監測是不是也有一份報告給我辦公室讓我可以讓我的鄉親比較安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
28308.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
28334.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
因為這樣子廚餘海的方式其實很多民眾都感到非常的憂慮所以說這個部分希望有明確的處理讓民眾可以安心檢測報告跟你們監測的機制跟你們的頻率是不是可以資料給我辦公室讓我可以給我的鄉親好的 提供給委員目前我們在講到說廚餘的部分因為豬瘟的危機我們在面對它所以防疫因為防疫的關係我們就禁止廚餘養豬 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
28336.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
28361.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
除於要用其他的方法去去化除了說我們到焚化廠處理廠之外其實現在很熱門大家一直在討論就是交給黑水盟來處理近幾年來其實很多人在討論甚至有很多人願意投入在地也有清潔隊跨域合作這個院長您知道嗎有沒有了解到相關的訊息是 這個也是一個自然的去化的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
28361.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
28387.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
那其實黑水盟已經發展了一段時間關於黑水盟它的蟲體排泄物永和到蟲油其實都有被利用不管是飼料肥料保養品甚至分解機油到生殖用油都有被討論都有拿來做實驗那黑水盟也被視為是農業循環經濟的新星但是其實它發展還是有蠻多阻礙的我想知道說現在目前整個中央政府從農業部經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
28389.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
28413.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
甚至我們在環境部針對黑水盲相關產業我們的想法跟未來的規劃是什麼部長我跟委員說明第一個就是說從廚藝的再利用它有非常多多元的部分包括多肥包括您講的黑水盲那這個黑水盲的部分它如果是用植物性的料源去給黑水盲吃是沒問題任何飼料都可以但是它如果用有含有動物性的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
28413.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
28432.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
它不能直接給豬吃但是它可以給其他的禽類來吃因為最主要是動物性的這些料源含有一些國際標準裡面不合格的蔣您現在講到說黑水蒙的蟲體不能給豬吃可以給禽類吃那麼我們相關的法規是有明定的嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
28435.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
28454.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
另外我們在農業部資源永續利用司的師長他曾經在2024年有說過針對黑水盟發展正在爭取115年起公共建設計畫希望各地可以設置處理中心我想請問部長這個是我們未來會積極發展黑水盟的態度跟立場嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
28455.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
28477.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
對 這是我們的立場就是說怎麼樣農業廢棄物本身包括這個廚藝的部分能夠透過黑水美容去做成一個飼料化的一個政策那我們會用示範的方式然後我們也會結合跟環境部一起合作去建立比較有規模的一個指標的這個案例場就是示範場能夠讓這個黑水美容因為它一天可以處理一克到兩克的 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
28479.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
28485.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
每一隻蟲所以相對的你在用規格化養的時候對於處理的去化是有一定的貢獻 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
28487.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
28516.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
其實在今天為什麼我在質詢的時候特別提出黑水盟相關的議題是因為越來越多業者是有意願投入黑水盟的產業但其實目前相關的法規有不足的地方也有要調整的地方還有相關的衍生的產品的效益還是需要一些研究再證實說這樣子的產品是不是真的符合我們去發展的效益甚至說其實相關的規範都還有需要再跟進 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
28517.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
28545.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
所以這邊我會希望說我們應該盡速的建立黑水盟應用研究法規調整配套另外也應該經濟部環境部國科會跟農業部應該橫向的來建立科研應用連結來加速相關的進程院長您本身對黑水盟不管是從新聞上從一些你實際去勘查的這些相關的訊息上您覺得黑水盟的發展是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
28546.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
28571.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
應該要我們大力的來協助跟推廣跟委員抱歉 過去我確實不事甚了解是這一段時間在接觸到如何處於去化的過程當中包括從農業部也包括從其他委員都告訴我黑水盟在這個處理過程當中是可以發揮一定的功能跟效果的那我會請農業部來持續跟像委員剛剛所說的從他整個整套的一個過程能夠來加強來 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
28573.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
28599.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
盡量來提升他未來能夠協助的功能因為黑水盟如果以重提的管理可能是在農業部但是如果是公司的設立工廠的設立是在經濟部然後他的相關的環境的條件應該是在環境部所以這個部分可能是要跨部會的大家要一起來協助這個產業能夠是正常的去運作因為網路上其實有很多賣蟲卵的賣蟲體的有的民眾他不了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
28599.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
28625.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
它可能在飼養的過程裡面或者說在購買的過程裡面也可能遇到詐騙所以會希望說黑水盟竟然它可以是我們農業的循環經濟的新星我們也希望是用一種很正向的立場來推廣它跟協助它那這個部分也請我們相關的部會盡快的來對黑水盟的產業我們來做一個橫向的聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
28626.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
28642.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
另外我也要提到就是說溫體豬肉是本席選區很多小吃重要的原料像肉包 肉羹 麵線糊還有像肉圓都是要用這個原料現在很多攤商很多店家買不到原料他只能先停業這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
28643.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
28663.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
我想防疫是大家要一起努力的但是也希望說中央能夠予以協助或是協調地方政府對於這些相關的店家還是豬農有損失的我們是不是有一些協助的配套防疫很重要但是我們也要照顧到這些受到損失的這些民眾這個部分也請中央部會這邊盡可以的來協助來幫忙院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
28667.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
28690.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
是的 在疫情穩定之後我們最重要的工作就是讓產業的損失能夠得到輔助農業部也已經提出了對產業的支持另外一項就是有一天解封的時候對於肉品的供應以及市場的價格我們要讓他平穩這兩項工作是最為重要的好 謝謝院長因為我時間有限 我非常的趕所以我趕快講一下下一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
28691.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
28707.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
現在要針對丹納斯颱風過境後的環流造成本席選區鹿港鎮嚴重積水淹水的問題來請教部長劇烈的氣候變遷颱風及強降雨的影響勢必會是未來地方治水一個很大的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
28708.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
28731.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
我們要如何防止未來嚴重的積水淹水影響到民眾的生命財產安全本席也覺得說應該要有更全面的檢視跟規劃這次丹納斯颱風為了環流影響中部地區在7月8號降下又急又猛的大雨本席的選區鹿港有非常嚴重的積水淹水的狀況也被戲稱為是台版威尼斯 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
28731.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
28758.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
民眾的家具家電都被泡水都壞了那很多古蹟也泡在水裡面讓關心文資保存的民眾都非常的心痛那鹿港的鄉親跟本席都一直想要知道說到底我們鹿港鎮的排水系統及規劃是出了什麼問題到底要怎麼樣才能一個有系統的改善鹿港鎮現在目前的排水的方式有兩個一個是沿錯排水一個是舊鹿港溪排水 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
28758.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
28779.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
那依照7月8號這個積淹水的狀況來看現有的鹿港的排水管道是沒有辦法負擔這麼大量的雨勢那其中呢沿錯排水靠的是重力排水如果遇到漲潮的時候水門是關閉的雖然這樣子可以阻止這個漲潮海水倒灌但是同時也讓鎮內這個積水是沒有辦法排出 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
28780.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
28800.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
7月8號淹水積水的主要原因之一也是因為剛好適逢大潮是因為漲潮的關係所以水門是關閉的水就排不出去舊鹿港溪的排水主要是靠鹿港抽水站鹿港抽水站還是本席的父親陳進丁當委員的時候爭取設置的所以年代真的很久遠了 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
28801.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
28818.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
但目前看起來它真的是設施老舊抽水的效率也很差有迫切改善的需要加上目前應該是僅存鹿港抽水站還使用舊式螺旋式的抽水機所以要改善要更新鹿港抽水站這是刻不容緩的 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
28819.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
28846.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
綜上所述為了解決鹿港每下雨就會積水淹水這個問題就有兩個部分第一個要興建沿錯抽水站來克服漲潮排水的問題第二個就是要更新鹿港抽水站來提高排水的效益才能解決下雨就積水就淹水這兩個部分是不是請經濟部說明一下未來是不是可以全力協助鹿港鎮來克服積水跟淹水的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
28849.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
28872.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
謝謝 現在整個鹿港的治水工程大概有幾項第一項大概就是洛金國小的蓄洪工程今年年底就會完成 總共是3.5億另外還5個浸流分攤的部分在做處理工程 大概1.3億您剛才提到的擴建鹿港抽水站的部分的話我們會來更新 會把它加進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
28893.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
28897.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
謝謝陳委員 謝謝卓院長下一位請張志倫委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
28908.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
28928.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
好 謝謝今天大會主席我們副院長辛苦了有請我們卓榮泰卓院長有請卓院長備詢還有再請我們經濟部龔明星總部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
28930.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
28950.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
張委員好謝謝 卓院長辛苦了一天天的集群到下午非常辛苦在這邊還是給你勉勵謝謝你為國家努力打拚希望說早上跟院長請教的是有關相關內政的問題中央地方要一條心下午請教的是經濟能源的一些問題也希望說 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
28953.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
28973.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
院長跟部長這邊我們台灣在發展綠能的情況下雖然說經濟非常重要那也要兼具我們民生環保等等問題所以第一個問題就是根據最近媒體報導經濟部水利署自2022年起連續三年發函給台北翡翠水庫管理局 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
28974.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
28989.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
評估在翡翠水庫設置光電板的可能性那我要請教院長跟部長的現在台南的烏山頭水庫因為設置光電板引發有可能水污染的疑慮爭議到現在沒有解決可是經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
28990.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
29008.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
還是水利署不死心連續三年的去寒來敲門是不是有要強壓台北市政府把翡翠水庫當成光電績效的提款機那大家知道雙北地區是有600萬的市民的飲水安全那想要請教這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
29010.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
29039.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
院長跟部長你們現在沒有強求那只是通案的發函各地方看看他們有沒有相關的設施如果願意的話我們是非常歡迎但是沒有強求部長什麼叫做發函看看因為我們現在其實是我們的人民的要求非常簡單所有公務機關上的一些盤點是不是有可能可以適合來設置光電板的部分如果沒有適合當然就是沒有適合 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
29040.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
29065.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
好 我簡單一點跟院長跟部長拜託因為雙北地區有600萬的民眾那我現在是不是因為最近很多台北市議會也有請教蔣萬恩市長蔣萬恩市長是表態說絕對不准在民生的水庫來建置設置光電板那現在部長跟院長你們是不是可以做同樣的允諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
29067.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
29095.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
這個它SOP的流程本來就是需要地方政府同意才可以設所以你們能不能允諾說未來民生水庫就不太需要再做評估了因為我剛剛跟大家報告很多委員在這邊質詢也講其實我們已經把範圍說得非常少就是民生用的水庫因為發電量也不多嘛基本上它是安全的但是如果說地方政府有其他的考量事實上我們也尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
29096.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
29113.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
我覺得安全是第一當然是非常重要可是民意也非常重要而且民眾的心裡的那個想法也非常重要院長 部長一直是 這個有一個邏輯水庫本身的這個管理機關它如果自己要設都要經過經濟部水利署核准 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
29115.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
29128.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
這個邏輯是這樣所以如果有發函過去是說你水庫要不要設你水庫自己的自主的看法是如何他如果沒有這個意願我想這個程序就不會往下走這應該是很嚴謹的一套標準這不會錯亂掉的為什麼我會問這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
29132.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
29146.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
我不太清楚當時台南烏山頭水庫這個類似是民生用水的部分為什麼會設光電板可是在翡翠水庫有這樣的新聞出來所以我是不是希望說院長跟部長還是可以承諾我說不要發生像台南烏山 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
29147.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
29170.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
投水庫這樣子因為他在設立光電板的時候其實民眾都不知道我是不知道整個流程是發生什麼樣的事情部長說明過了這是一個普遍性的盤點盤點的過程有願意提出有設意願的還要進一步去做各種的評估不是這樣就能夠做了如果連意願都沒有我想往下走的程序就不會再持續的進行下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
29171.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
29196.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
可是為什麼要連續評估三年所以我還是要跟院長部長講這個人員政策不應該用全民的飲用水來承擔那台電現在其實雖然有巨額虧損可是我覺得不應該把他的想法動到人民的救命水頭上所以是不是可以請院長跟部長在這邊可以說承諾一下說不要讓翡翠水庫成為下一個烏山頭水庫來設光電板 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
29198.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
29219.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
還是地方政府的意願為主地方政府就不會有同意不然其實做很簡單的一個民意調查不會有同意為什麼院長跟部長你到現在不敢承諾因為地方政府有時候他的想法也會改變比如說以前柯P市長跟蔣安市長想法就不一樣柯P市長就下游他就我們就設光電板不是我現在不是在問 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
29221.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
29248.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
哪一個市長的想法哪個市長不一樣的想法你的意思是說現在就是因為人民有發現這樣問題因為人民沒有有知的權利所以不是說哪一任市長是我在這邊用很卑微的方式請求是不是可以民生民用的民生的水庫我們還是尊重地方政府地方政府你們的態度是什麼尊重地方政府地方政府不想設我們就尊重他地方政府想設未來民生用水庫都會設嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
29248.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
29269.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
那還是要檢核還是要環境檢核這個部長院長這個我們不能接受這個雙北有600萬的人民你們就是說地方政府不想做就不會往下走因為中央地方要一條心這樣看起來我們就了解了一開始我跟委員講過水庫的管理機關自己想設他還有一套程序要走不是他想設就想設 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
29269.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
29297.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
因為我沒辦法去追究說烏山頭水庫或是你剛剛講的翡翠水庫下游為什麼已經設了光電板就現在而言應該你們要有一個很明確的態度說我們民生水庫到底能不能設光電板你們中央要有一個很明確的想法這樣才不會說這個經濟部水利署連續三年一直去跟我們台北市政府敲門如果哪一天大家沒有注意一下就過了那大家民生用水怎麼辦呢這個是尊重地方政府的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
29298.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
29309.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
地方政府如果想設還要經過經濟部水利署很嚴謹的各種的程序才能夠去設不是說他想設就設如果他不想設就不會往下走 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
29312.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
29330.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
答案就是如此我還是希望說好不好中央 因為我們是要拜託院長跟部長好好來把關那隔壁水庫絕對不可以在安全或者是民眾有疑慮之下來去設光電板這點要特別要拜託好 第二個我來請教一下有關於一樣是綠能的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
29332.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
29355.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
其實綠能的投資跟綠能整體的政策一直是很多委員跟人民所覺得很意外的一個地方現在連監察院在今年的10月16其實有公布太陽能光電板的相關的設置的疑義裡面也提到很多的問題我覺得非常值得參考尤其是外資當時其實我也在這邊公開請教過院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
29358.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
29383.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
外資是很聰明的他會尋找投資相關友善的地區如果外資出走會是反映了我國的綠能投資環境非常惡化其實當時有一個新聞也有講我們外商有五大我們的外商名字還沒有寫出來有五大外商其實在新聞媒體上都已經公開宣示說他要撤出台灣的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
29384.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
29398.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
我覺得這是一個相當嚴重的問題因為其實在我們的監察院他都有特別提到他說外資對我國基礎設施的投資是台灣最有實力跟最有 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
29399.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
29424.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
最好的經濟外交唯有透過實質的經濟合作才能換取國際支持的安全跟保障所以我要想要請教部長的事你看到現在這樣的外資全部而且他們都是跟離岸風電相當有關的企業全部要撤資沒有 報告委員如果您看今天1到8月份或9月份外資來台的最大的部分還是離岸風電 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
29425.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
29446.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
歐洲的廠商來台灣而且比去年的成長率是成長了20%到30%所以新聞裡面講的五大外資企業要撤資然後經濟部還說經濟部會全力來協助台灣的一些企業來接手這個新聞是假新聞嗎某些外資他當然有他的這個全球性事業上的布局跟考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
29447.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
29473.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
他做完了這個工程以後他離開台灣 這個我沒尊重但是看到實際上的數字有沒有五大外資當時有跟你們尋求說看到實際上的數字是更多的外資來到了台灣這是實質上的數字那我沒有 這個部長你在我按A 你答B我的問題說是過去台灣在招商臨岸風電的五大外商公司他們在接受了這樣的標案投資進來以後是不是有要撤資的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
29474.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
29501.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
他們要設置的情況是不是會造成剛剛我們監察院講的就是剛剛講的那些問題比如像現在最大的開發商基本上就是沃旭我沒有看到說沃旭也在當時的新聞稿裡面他沒有要離開他會持續在台灣經營甚至於他還很期待3.3標案趕快釋出來他要投所以我再請教一次新聞上講的五大外資要撤離 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
29503.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
29527.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
經濟部當時的新聞稿是回應說他有兩家國內業者會積極來爭取我要check一下那個新聞所以沒有這樣的問題嗎至少我知道您剛才提到的沃旭我瞭解他是會持續在進行CIP也是一樣他會持續在台灣經營他們面對面跟我講的他們願意而且很積極的 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
29529.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
29551.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
這跟我看到的新聞的內容是不太一樣的我接下來再請教 河山因為大家當然我們也很好奇的是台灣未來10年的用電的整個環境就經濟部你們內部的整個討論跟評估現在未來每年我們的能源的成長大概是每年大概成長百分之多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
29553.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
29571.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
現在你說用電量是不是用電量大概1.7左右吧用電量只有成長1.7%每年平均成長1.7%現在估算是這樣可是很多專家學者也在這邊質疑說發展AI需要龐大的算力跟穩定的能源 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
29572.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
29597.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
這個部分請問部長你們有把未來AI算力的部分至少在2032年我們都把這些可能要發展AI算力的部分因為你開始宣告說你要發展製造這個可能也要有一段時間我們就會把這個東西都算進來算進來這個需求我們會供應他們相關的電力上的一些設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
29598.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
29621.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
好 為什麼我要問這個問題就是說很多的專家學者有在請教就是說就是因為未來我們整個台灣要導入AI等等的這樣的一個問題那未來我們台灣的用電量會不會不足那剛剛部長特別有回應說你們認為只有1.7%的成長那這個是很多專家學者所質疑的所以最近又在討論這個河山廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
29623.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
29645.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
現在的整個的評估到台灣未來會不會再使用核能現在我要請教部長跟院長的事現在核三廠的整體的評估的狀況是不是已經有提供了一個核三廠的評估報告送到我們的經濟部來去做審查就是按照程序來走的確台電是有送到現況的評估報告過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
29648.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
29672.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
如果我們覺得OK的話我們就會簽核然後就會啟動程序所以可不可以再講明確一點所以核三現在進度是怎麼樣兩個必要三個原則那兩個必要已經完成了就是核安會已經把他的法跟辦法都已經公告而且也公告了我們就按照他公告的程序來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
29673.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
29692.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
因為就本席得知現在河山廠的這個評估現況評估報告現在在台電裡面是屬於密件的情況是嗎對 送到我們部裡來那是屬於密件的情況下未來你們會拿什麼樣的報告出來給立法院或給大眾去了解基本上就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
29694.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
29720.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
是不是適合啟動這件事情因為當時本席為什麼要提出這個點因為核安會在報告裡指出會堅守賴總統的三大原則包含落實公開資訊強化公眾參與可是因為評估報告居然是目前來講是密件的狀態我想要請教說那如何未來落實公開資訊如何讓民眾可以有了解的機會他重要的是說這個評估以後是不是適合啟動 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
29721.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
29743.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
那我們如果簽合或簽出來以後也會對外說明說適不適合啟動如果適合啟動就按照程序來走如果不適合啟動我們也會說明原因那很快就會有結果大概什麼時候會有結果盡快有沒有三個月之內還是一個月之內不用了一個月之內就會有河山未來是否可以重啟的評估報告嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
29747.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
29769.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
會把這樣的資訊PO出來給立法院或是一個月之內核三是否可以重啟評估報告會花多少錢 核安的問題還有核廢料的問題全部都會明確的讓人民知道不會那麼細 只是說適不適合啟動這件事情那答案就是是或不是最主要是這個答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
29771.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
29799.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
那這樣怎麼落實到民眾剛剛賴總統講的要讓民眾有落實資訊公開的一個有落實到嗎因為報告委員你開始做啟動或評估的時候要換什麼設備或是怎麼樣這個要有一個老化性的一些測試要不要換那個才會牽涉到經費上的多寡但是我們現在沒有辦法說評估要不要換這個東西是要知道去測以後才知道要不要換 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
29800.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
29826.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
所以一個月之後人民對於我們台灣用電安全有疑慮的民眾或是立法委員只能得到一個消息就是說核電 核三可以重啟 不能重啟就一個這麼單純的問題那啟動以後它當然後續會有自我檢視自我安全檢查的因為裡面的內容也都是密件所以我們也無從得知跟委員報告現在是核安會提出一個審查的辦法這個辦法現在已經時間到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
29828.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
29854.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
所以台電先就這個辦法來提出一個計畫說他現在要啟動將來還有一大串的一個程序是他的自主安全檢查他必須要還有謝謝張委員謝謝卓院長下一位請李彥秀委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
29867.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
29871.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
謝謝主席我可不可以邀請院長 卓院長以及我們農業部長請卓院長及農業部陳部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
29886.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
29906.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
李文好院長好部長好這10月22號爆發的非洲豬瘟事件我想這整件事情我們除了中央地方大家積極的配合當然我們希望從目前看起來它是單一事件中央跟地方其實都非常的辛苦但是這整件事情我個人認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
29907.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
29911.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
我們不能有任何僥倖的心態因為目前從報告上你們認為農業部的疫調報告說應該是廚餘 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
29918.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
29946.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
我們都很清楚知道本土我們好不容易從非洲豬瘟去名之後大家努力了非常久這個成果對於台灣來說對於豬農來說非常的重要本土沒有非洲豬瘟所以出於哪裡來的所以我們仍舊要去好好做研究我們才有機會把所有有可能的破口 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
29947.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
29970.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
賭注因為即便出於到底哪裡來的豬瘟這還是有一個源頭所以我在這邊我今天透過今天這個質詢我還是要提醒藉由這個質詢要提醒院長跟部長在農業部在111年的5月份我們公佈了一個行政命令這行政命令當中我認為它有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
29971.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
29991.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
是過去還是接下來有可能的破口所以我就要提醒院長跟部長因為我們當時有要求說從疫區從疫區非洲豬人國家郵寄過來我們是禁止郵寄任何有豬肉相關產品進來這個很清楚但是如果收件人跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
29992.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
30005.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
寄件人不一致或者他首次輸入也不是故意的我們就不予以罰款這是行政命令我擔心的是有些人就藉由這些行政命令的漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
30006.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
30032.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
有可能就不小心他也可能不是鬼但就是寄進來了這就是一個防疫的破口那為什麼我這麼說呢因為從111年到現在為止我們總共有包括有寄進來疑似含豬肉的有可能有豬肉跟相關的豬肉產品有1000件但是我們最後裁罰的只有9件也就是說我們裁罰的大概只有1%我們網開99% |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
30036.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
30064.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
我希望他不是不是破口之意我希望他不是但他有可能是但是從這件事情從這個數據上我們就可以很清楚的知道我們的行政命令大開後門這個讓我們中央在這段時間也好還有台中市政府也好都非常的辛苦更重要是我們在這段時間前面我也有講我們肌肉也上漲什麼也是也都上漲這個才是真正我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
30066.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
30093.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
有可能的破口我要提醒第一個要提醒的地方第二個我認為更大的破口在我們的衛福部食藥署在2022年2月我們的網站公告另外一個法律跟行政法規我們公告說什麼樣的狀況之下我們可以免抽查自用包括在1000美元以下重量在6公斤以下得免申請查驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
30095.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
30117.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
得免申請查驗這件事情包括民進黨零數分委員都在衛福部都認為說這件事情是讓疫區的肉品能夠化整為零直接長期植入所以包括審計部的報告當中都講說這有可能是實案的破口為什麼我這麼說過去一年之內就有70萬人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
30119.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
30146.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
一年之內70萬人士申請免檢驗因為他說他自用我進來的在6公斤以下所以申請小型包裹過去一年有294天有人申請小型包裹這個申請的案件數第一名這個人他總共申請了3000次所以這明顯在我看來他就不是叫自用 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
30147.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
30164.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
就是有人當作我是自用但是他就是要用傷用化整為零的方式進來我覺得這樣子的破口是國人所不能夠忍受在這段時間無論是陳部長帶領的農業部團隊也好或者是台中市政府也好都非常的辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
30165.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
30189.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
但是到目前為止從事情發展到現在這兩大破口有可能仍舊在持續當中我希望它不會發生任何狀況但是我們卻沒有把這個破口堵住這是我要提醒部長因為這個不是在委員會裡面很多委員在質疑這個問題很多專家學者也在提醒這個問題所以我們是中央的行政命令法規大開號門 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
30191.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
30203.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
讓台灣的非洲豬瘟好不容易除名之後有這兩個有可能的破口的源頭除於 但在道理說除於不會有非洲豬瘟的問題一定有其他的外源帶進來 境外 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
30204.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
30228.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
到底在哪裡我們現在還是沒有得到答案我還沒講完第三個我要提醒當然這幾天也有委員在關注有沒有可能是我們的境外的電商包括在這次非洲豬瓶湯包括淘寶跟拼多多有沒有可能是夾帶的這些東西進來所以到底要不要納管還是要下架 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
30230.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
30246.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
到目前為止這三大問題我都沒有聽到更清楚的答覆我覺得這一次是僥倖可能它是單一事件但是我透過今天的質詢我仍舊要提醒院長跟部長這三件事情要釐清否則 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
30247.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
30272.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
好不容易中央跟地方都非常辛苦台中市政府的疫調人員也都非常辛苦但是如果有這大開後門用行政命令大開後門包括連民進黨委員都對這些事情有意見那我覺得都覺得是破口那我覺得農業部從農委會升到農業部你要人給人要錢給錢但這些事情我們卻不斷的透過其他部會行政命令大開我覺得這是非常遺憾的部長你要不要回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
30273.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
30297.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
謝謝委員的這樣的一個提醒就正如剛才這邊的我先說明一下衛護部本身的申請免查驗的部分那不代表他就直接可以通關因為本身如果是符合必須要檢疫的樣品我們還是要檢驗就是防疫的檢驗還是做的那免查驗是免查驗但是符合那個動物傳染病防治法的28條的話他必須要去申報 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
30298.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
30324.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
就必須要去查 申報就不用他申報他申請免查驗他就不用查驗嗎 不一樣免查驗是食品但是檢疫的部分沒有免查驗這件事情這個要特別說明食品裡面如果有豬肉有含有問題的話他就是一個破口之一他就要檢驗他不能說免查驗就過了這兩個是雙軌的這直接會去處理第二個部分就是在整個防疫過程中我們有三道防線第一道防線就是邊境包括旅客包括郵包的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
30325.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
30349.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
不管怎麼樣我們第二道防線就是後市場第三道防線就是租場本身的一個防疫部長我在看這些問題我覺得你們是行政官員其實這些行政命令到底是破口有沒有可能是破口包括連衛福部部長都覺得他們本來也就有想要納管所以我覺得你們好好針對我們我們也會檢討好好回去檢討我只是提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
30349.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
30367.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
台湾好不容易从口庭疫区除名经过多少十多年来的努力我要提醒你得来不易有这两个中央在边境上管理有可能是发生问题的我希望你进行调整谢谢委员肯定2018年到现在的防治的过程 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
30369.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
30378.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
現在我們會針對委員所說的我們會加嚴對任何邊境的管制要更加的加嚴才不會讓我們過去的努力白費掉我請拱部長部長我還是要提到河山重啟的問題因為剛剛有回應幾位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
30385.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
30403.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
在這整件事情當中不管是接下來要送河岸重啟的計畫也好或者自我檢查剛有回答前委員說一個月之內你們就會回應說到底合不合適那我就有幾個問題因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
30405.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
30427.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
對外我們看到需要三年半的時間如果可以重啟的話要三年半的時間我們在跟時間賽跑剛才你雖然回答說我們用電很夠但是我等一下會給你另外一個數據路透社也告訴我們我們現在是用化石燃料在發電這個數據我們等一下再討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
30429.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
30445.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
但我有幾個問題要請教部長就是說我們那整個計劃當中你剛說一個月但是美國的密西根州它的重啟核電它只花了兩年兩個月的時間那我要再強調當然要有核安才能有核能這個是先決條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
30446.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
30473.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
那時間能不能夠更快當中還有一個就是說未來我們有沒有可能在重啟的過程當中我們還必須你們有幾個條件就是說必須要有社會共識這個社會共識是要在做公投嗎還是開國家能源的國事會議是透過什麼樣的方式因為我非常期望如果可以重啟的話時間有沒有可能縮短在安全無意之下有沒有可能縮短 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
30475.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
30495.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
國際企業都在看我們AI也好我們要有護國群山也都在看台灣的供電足不足夠除了供電足不足夠我們也要有乾淨的能源政策部長我在說什麼我相信你非常清楚所以我要就教於院長跟部長所謂的社會共識是指什麼是要再辦一次公投嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
30498.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
30511.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
就是一旦 你剛才講時間的問題一旦啟動了自我自主檢查的話對啦 你現在說要三年半嘛那我現在就在講說美國密西根植只要兩年兩天我們可能時間縮短希望 但是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
30512.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
30533.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
不完全取決我們因為我們的配合廠商就是國外的河山當然是西武我們還要配合他的時程我希望在河岸無虞之下怎麼樣儘快所以包括院長我要請問你的所以社會共識是指什麼現在再搞一次公投嗎那今年才剛公投完下一次公投是兩年之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
30534.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
30554.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
所以是用什麼樣的社會共識因為我們在跟時間賽跑我想院長你非常清楚我對於能源政策用電政策國家有充足的能源我非常著急所以是什麼樣的社會共識因為據我的看法是這樣沒有核安就絕對不會有共識所以我們第一件事情就先把核安做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
30555.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
30583.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
但是時間是怎麼樣核能安全如果真的可以確保的情況下我相信大家的意見會比較趨向一致有沒有可能縮短有沒有可能時間縮短我們盡量如果一旦啟動這個我還是要強調因為根據我們的核管法當中如果經過所有的程序走完的話那就是主管機關同意之後我們就可以持續運轉這後續這件事情需要總統跟院長同意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
30584.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
30599.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
我們按照依法行政還是要法律上的依據好那沒關係那剛才我就講到剛才你回答 張俊永委員說我們用電應該是足夠即便AI或半導體我們未來有大數據中心我們都夠但是我要提醒就是說路透社 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
30601.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
30629.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
批評我們台灣現在用化石燃料發電是全球的反指標這個指標我們現在在亞洲我們是86.8我們發電用燃油燃氣燃煤我們是佔發電量87%高於亞洲的62%也高於全球的57%我們台灣最喜歡符合國際潮流民進黨政府也最喜歡符合國際潮流 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
30630.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
30635.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
我也支持這件事情我也支持我個人也支持我也同意但是我們現在化石燃料的發電佔全球的87%是跟國際潮流背道而馳而且是格外落後所以這整件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
30646.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
30650.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
我希望我們用電的足夠它是因為符合違背國際潮流這是前提對 碳跟天然氣還是要分開來看院長 部長這不是我講的這路透社講的所以要改善有機會跟國際去溝通說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
30662.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
30689.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
另外我當然希望我們用電充足足夠我當然也希望河山有機會重啟我們的核能政策能源政策從蔡英文到賴清德過去我們現在目前看起來是蔡規賴水院長我沒有說錯我們能源政策配比也沒有改但是重點是我要提醒院長我們的能源政策配比是不斷的在跳票所以未來會不會調整合適的風存是馬總統時代 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
30692.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
30716.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
我現在在指我們的能源配比是菜龜賴水你們是非核家園你們的配比是你們提出來配比是你們提出來能源配比是你們提出來我指的是能源政策的配比是過去六年來你們提出來你們沒有改變過五十三十二十燃氣多少燃煤多少天然氣是你們提出來但是這幾年這個人員配比 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
30719.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
30743.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
仍旧没有达标是不断的在跳票所以我要就教于院长跟部长能源正在配比未来有没有机会调整这我第一个问题因为你核三重启不知道能不能重启我不知道我个人我希望可以重启但是我也注意到明年你们编了一笔预算在核安会里面你们未来要发展小核能高密度的小核能 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
30744.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
30764.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
我也希望他有機會成功因為他就是多元能源政策配比的選項一種但是我要提醒如果這小兒能成功如果核三也可以重啟的話那非核家園的目標就要做調整了好 這個議題完結束我還有33秒吳彥霖這整件事情 院長我覺得重點是在制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
30766.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
30795.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在不是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
30795.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
30796.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
謝謝李委員 謝謝卓院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
30824.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
30844.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
下一位吳啟明委員之質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報報告院會本日排定質詢之委員均已質詢完畢謝謝左院長及相關部會首長列席答詢現做以下決定下次會議繼續進行經濟組織質詢現在散會 |