| IVOD_ID |
16992 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16992 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-30 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-30T08:31:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-30T11:50:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:18:38 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528eeb9b513302bbc7034f7cda26dcb539f8c15c1468241555469da98b32a9db58855ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-30T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、中央銀行、法務部、內政部警政署就「虛擬資產服務法草案及其相關子法修訂暨建立完善監理架構之進程」進行專題報告，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:22 - 11:50:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1732.318 |
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我們現在開始開會 請主任秘書報告出席委員人數報告委員會 出席委員已出法定人數現在開始開會 請議事員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1749.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1767.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
立法院第十一屆第四會期財政委員會第四次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百二十四年十月二十三日星期四九時至十二十八分地點群雄樓九樓大禮堂出席委員林德福委員等十三人列席委員葉元之委員等八人請教委員寬恆委員一人 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1769.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1788.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
列席官員中央銀行總裁楊金榮暨所屬單位主管財經資訊公司董事長林國良主席林昭吉委員施名報告四項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定二 邀請中央銀行楊總裁金榮率所屬單位主管暨財經資訊股份有限公司董事長列席業務報告並備質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1790.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1820.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
經中央銀行總裁楊金榮提出報告後 藉由委員林德福等16人提出質詢均經中央銀行楊總裁 財經資訊公司林董事長及相關人員予以答覆決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員質詢及未及答覆或請補充資訊 請中央銀行一週內以書面答覆為另要求期限者從期鎖定三 委員羅明財所讀書面質詢列入紀錄刊登公報 並請中央銀行以書面答覆宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1823.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1849.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
在场委员未足法定人数那我们议事录暂不确定我们请议事人员宣读今日议程邀请金融监督管理委员会彭主任委员金融中央银行法务部内政部警政署就虚拟资产服务法草案及其相关执法修订计建立完善监理架构之进程进行专题报告并被质询宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1850.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1877.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好 那我們先來介紹今天的這個與會的官員金融監督管理委員會主任委員彭金榮主委銀行局局長童振章證券期貨局局長張振山保險局局長王立慧檢察局局長賴新國 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1881.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1905.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
中央銀行副總裁朱美麗業務局局長謝鳳英法務部法制司司長洪嘉源檢察司主任檢察官劉怡婷內政部警政署刑事警察局副局長陳世煌 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1909.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1914.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
財團法人中華民國證券櫃台買賣中心董事長簡立中總經理陳立青 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1925.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1949.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
今日議程安排邀請金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金融中央銀行法務部內政部警政署就虛擬資產服務法草案及其相關執法修訂及建立完善監理架構之進程進行專題報告那以下我們就是請金管會還有中央銀行做報告就好了那我們現在先請金管會彭主委進行專題報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1954.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1979.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席 各位委員 各位先進媒體朋友 大家早安承蒙貴委員會邀請本會就虛擬資產服務法草案及其相關執法修訂及建立完善監理架構之進程提出專案報告本會對於具金融投資或支付性質虛擬資產之管理主要參考國際趨勢以洗錢防治及打擊資恐為監理基礎分四階段納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1980.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1996.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
目前已經進行到第三階段於114年9月22日公佈9家登記至VASP業者第四階段系推動VASP專法立法管理專法草案於6月27日送行政院審議草案說明如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1997.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2017.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
條文條文草案內容結構包括總則虛擬資產服務商同業工會穩定必發型及管理管理與監督罰則及負責等七個章節以下就規範重點說明一對VASP的管理VASP的許可規範包括不同種類VASP的許可要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2017.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2038.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
VASP需為專營金融機構得兼營VASP組織形式名稱使用資本額營業保證金及負責人與業務人員資格條件等加以規範二VASP是營運共通管理規範包括財務要求內控內基制度資安委外資料保密以及資訊公開與記錄保存等規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2040.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2059.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
VASP之差異管理部分對交換商資交換資訊公開平台商資上下架審查保管商資保管義務及承銷商資資訊公開等規定對穩定幣發行與管理系由本會與中央銀行共同嚴定重點如下將價值錨定法定貨幣之虛擬資產視為穩定幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2062.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2080.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
納管並定義為只表彰與單一或多個法定貨幣之價值連結以維持其價值穩定之虛擬資產發行穩定幣應先向主管機關申請許可境外發行之穩定幣應取得主管機關同意使得在我國VESPA交易 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2081.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2089.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
更因設置與維持十足準備資產定期查核角逐足額準備金申報穩定並發行相關資料及資訊揭露等 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2092.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2113.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
三 市場不公正交易之處理 虛擬資產之發行或交易不得有資訊虛偽 詐欺 隱匿或其他足以致他人誤信之行為並明定不得意圖影響虛擬資產交易價格 意圖造成交易活絡之表象 操縱行為等VASP專法草案及相關執法推動的進程 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2115.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2135.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
本草案報行政院審查前已召開過三場大型座談會辦理超過20場次溝通會議說明並於6月27號報行政院審查行政院已於7月25號及9月26號邀集相關單位召開會議討論本會將配合行政院審查程序儘速積極辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2137.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2153.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
有關VASP專法的相關執法部分未來專法通過後須擬定八個授權執法其中有七個涉及VASP管理一個涉及穩定幣相關執法說明如下一 虛擬資產服務商設置標準二 虛擬資產服務商管理辦法三 虛擬資產服務商負責人與業務人員管理規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2157.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2174.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
四 虛擬資產服務商建立內部控制制度處理準則五 虛擬資產服務商作業委託他人處理內部作業制度及程序辦法六 虛擬資產賬戶及疑似不法或顯著異常交易管理辦法七 虛擬資產服務商同業 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2175.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2195.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
同業工會業務管理規則8 穩定幣發行許可及管理辦法主要規範申請許可之發行人資格條件最低實收資本額申請程序穩定幣種類運用場景廢紙許可適由準備經資產之設置與定期查核穩定幣發行與贖回程序等規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2197.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2221.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
四 完善虛擬資產市場之監理架構現行FASB監理是剛剛提到第四階段的第三階段主要是依據113年11月30日生效之提供虛擬資產服務之事業或人員洗錢房子登記辦法規定管理服役搭配工會自律之機制達到強化業者內控及提升業務監理強度之目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2222.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2239.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
推動VASP專法監理效益與影響一提升VASP產業秩序與交易人保護專法實施後管理責任將由洗錢房制提升至特許事業的全面健全營運與市場秩序管理管理範疇將更加周延 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2240.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2268.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
現行專法草案定有資本額 營業保證金 退場機制防止市場不公正交易及交易人保護及財業物健全經營之規定對現行洗房對於相對於現行洗房制度之監理架構及相對人保護將更為完整二 穩健推動穩定幣的發行與管理三 提供VASP業者發展之彈性本會對VASP的監理器材循序漸進 省剩友好之態度推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2269.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2282.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
考量未來可能發展出新型態服務專法草案第六條以明定虛擬資產業務包括其他金主管機關核定之虛擬資產服務未來將視市場狀況法尊程度國際管理趨勢再行研議開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2284.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2312.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
三 落實金融檢查完善風險管理專案檢查部分目前加速在112年4家113年6家114年12家未來專法通過後持續透過金融檢查強化VASP財務業務遵法程度落實風險管理保障交易人權益加強打擊虛擬資產詐騙部分現行依據詐欺犯罪危害防治條例已賦予VASP與金融機構相同之主詐義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2314.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2341.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
此外本會議將持續精進虛擬資產主詐措施嚴提詐欺犯罪危害條例之修正建議增訂金融機構與VASP之間的異業召會機制異業聯防通報機制及異業情資分析機制等虛擬資產系發展快速之新興業態與市場各國除積極發展相關產業亦透過制定法規強化監理以促進產業健全與風險防控 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2343.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2365.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我國在虛擬資產領域具有一定技術能力相關基礎建設完善本會秉持安全與發展並進的態度推動VASP產業之發展與監理希望能夠加強對業者監理促進市場健全保障交易人權益並兼顧產業發展提升我國業者的國際競爭力以上報告 敬請各位委員會議指教 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2366.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2380.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好 谢谢彭主委我们先介绍一下我们到场的委员林德福委员好 我们接下来请中央银行进行专题报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2410.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2422.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
今天前來貴委員會報告專題自感榮幸以下請就以本行業務有關之穩定幣監管提出報告 敬請指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2424.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2442.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
貨幣體系的歷史以及其在經濟中的角色是一段不斷演進的故事近年來貨幣體系的技術創新帶來支付方式的改變也為我們一向熟悉的金融與經濟體系的運作帶來不確定性 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2446.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2475.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
其中有關於穩定幣的發展就是一個故事穩定幣是一種在區塊鏈上運作的虛擬資產單一法幣價值連結的穩定幣以美元或其他穩定幣其他法幣既有一對一的兌換關係並且具有支付功能是虛擬市場的主要交易媒介 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2476.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2487.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
由於穩定幣既有可點對點直接支付速度快、成本低、24小時交易等優點穩定幣已經從虛擬資產逐漸進入實體的經濟例如用於消費支付及用戶之間的轉帳 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2499.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2509.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
穩定幣應既有支付的功能所以如果有市場壓力造成價格偏離面值可能會影響現有支付與金融體系的運作加以虛擬市場即是詐欺洗錢等揮發活動頻傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2518.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2527.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
穩定幣可能被用作詐騙洗錢之功績因此應以適當監管目前全球主要國家已陸續將穩定幣納入監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2531.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2547.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
目前主要國家對於穩定幣的監理架構主要可分為兩類一是直接訂定穩定幣的專法如美國的天才法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2548.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2571.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
另一則是訂定心理資產法案其中包括穩定幣相關規範如歐盟的MICA法案跟目前我們的主管機關金管會所訂定的這一個架構即是我們現在講的這一類那我們很非常緊要的介紹這兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2574.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2576.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
主要的法案那在接下來談到我國穩定幣的監理因為有很多我們目前相關的監理的一些概念是跟這個兩個法案的精神非常類似的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2596.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2615.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
美國的天才法案是在今年7月由美國總統川普正式簽署成為法例將支付型穩定幣納管其中一個非常重要的部分是花型人不得支付任何形式之利息或收益 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2616.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2619.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
至於如果談到這個天才法案它的規範它最主要的是規範支付型穩定幣的發行跟初級市場而有關於支付型穩定幣之上架以及次級市場保管等業務則納入另外一個法案就是所謂的數位資產市場清晰法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2646.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2656.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
來管理至於歐盟的MICA法案是在比較早2023年的5月就通過了其中在虛擬資產納管的一個部分就是我們今天會談到的一個穩定幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2671.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2685.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
至於我們在這所談到的穩定幣的性質它就跟我們現在大家非常熟悉的電子支付是一樣的花型能限制為信貸機構或電子貨幣機構需要遵守準備資產要求贖回資訊揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2694.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2714.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
資產契格等規範另為降低穩定幣被作為價值的儲藏而花生存款流失的風險MECA法案規定花行人及家民資產服務商不得支付穩定幣持有人利息或任何形式的收益 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2716.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2719.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
最後我們很簡單的去談到目前我們監理架構的一個特性它其實就跟我們剛才談到的兩個法案美國跟MECA 歐盟這個部分非常的類似有一些相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2742.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2751.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
那麼在過去一段時間或者是現在或是未來我們都會跟金管會共同研提跟穩定幣相關的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2754.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2760.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那有關於相關國外法案的重點規範我們已經提供給主管機關參考至於跟央行比較相關的規範我們有兩點特別提出來做說明一個是準備資產的相關規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2776.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2785.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
穩定幣的花型是涉及向不特定大眾吸收資金以現行電子支付之儲藏款是來自不特定大眾繳交的資金類似經作為支付的用途 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2793.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2820.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
为了保障用户资金安全我们的稳定币花型应该比照电子支付机构达到一定金额的时候准备资产的一部分需提存于本行的准备金其余的部分则可用于存款或者购买高品质高流动性金融资产如短期债券或票件等 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2822.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2845.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那穩定幣的準備資產值呢是大於或等於花形的穩定幣金額以增加市場的信心並防範擠兌保障用戶可依面值贖回花幣那麼第二項呢是以外匯相關的事宜目前穩定幣主要用於買賣其他心理資產但未來將會逐漸應用於實體經濟活動的支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2852.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2868.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
可能成為跨境支付及台外幣資產兌換的功績之一未來我們將就穩定幣以實體經濟活動之可能應用研議相關業者應向本行申報資料之作業及規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2870.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2895.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
本行将持续与金管会共同研拟未来境内心理资产服务商之相关执法规范未来稳定币花型人已申请花型许可前金管会将洽商本行意见本行将就货币政策外汇事项支付系统等议题提供意见以上报告敬请各位委员指教谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2896.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2916.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
好 谢谢我们朱副总裁的报告我们来介绍一下现在到场的委员赖世宝委员好 我们在场委员已达法定人数请问各位委员对于上次议事录有意义没有 好 谢谢议事录确定 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2918.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2940.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
現在開始詢答 先做以下宣告一 每位出席委員發言時間八分鐘 必要時得延長兩分鐘每位列席委員發言時間五分鐘第二 今日上午十點截止發言登記第三 現已登記順序 請登記第一位的林德福委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2953.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2961.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
謝謝 謝謝主席是不是請金管會彭主委好 我們請彭主委委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2962.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2991.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
主委您早主委我請教因為九月公告九家首批通過洗錢黃字登記新制的業者名單作為市場建立初步的監管基礎據瞭解這些業者對虛擬資產產業的未來發展都抱持著高度的期待那主委有業者指出目前台灣只有不到百分之五的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2992.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3013.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
活躍在加密資產市場相比全球成熟市場如美國 韓國活躍人口達10%到15%以上那台灣的滲透率仍然偏低那我請問主委開拓國內虛擬資產市場的腳步你認為應該加速 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3017.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3043.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
投資民眾參與來積極追上國外成熟的市場還是建構虛擬資產完整的法規進而徐徐投資你的看法呢謝謝委員剛剛那個問題我想陳主委員講說有兩個選項那剛剛委員提到說那個成熟國家其實就以虛擬資產的發展的趨勢來看的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3047.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3060.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
應該還不能稱得上就是我們所習慣的一般像資本市場或一般金融市場所謂的成熟市場它是在一個發展中也就是因為這樣最近各個國家才開始針對這個做一些初步的立法我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3061.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3081.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
剛剛委員也提到說比如說這個活躍跟滲透度這部分我想在一個發展中的一個市場大概都有這樣一個趨勢我想金管會對於這個虛擬資產的這個態度呢就去年的時候我們有答應說我們會在今年的年中送出草案我們就按照這個我們按照循序漸進謹慎友好的態度應對這樣的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3083.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3109.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
所以說這是我們軍管會的現在的看法跟立場是不是 是的主委 軍管會上半年金錢報告指出虛擬資產業者在防制洗錢打擊知恐及環舞擴的作業上有三個缺失包括客戶審查措施欠妥事對客戶交易持續監控機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3112.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3127.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這個不夠完善以及未建立有效獨立的集合等未確認高風險客戶的財富與資金的來源等那我請問主委今晚會 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3131.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3146.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
經檢虛擬資產的業者所指出的缺失當中到底是故意比較多還是過失比較多你的看法呢是 我想說待會兒不足我請我們檢察局局長來說明我跟委員做個報告就是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3147.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3166.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
其實我們現在在管理我剛才在報告中報告現在是屬於第三階段是採登記制它還是以洗錢防治為概念的基礎所以剛剛比如提到的幾個問題比如說KYC做得不足還有事後的監控還有內控內機的部分我想在一個剛剛衍生出來的新產業的時候這個是會常見的一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3169.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3189.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
畢竟開始假設我們專法通過它會變成是一個類似金融機構的高度監管對於剛才講那幾個都是變成是未來基本的要求剛才我在執法的報告裡面確實像比如我們會訂定嚴謹的內控列計制度還有財業物監理準則我想這部分大概未來都會有很顯著的改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3190.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3214.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那按照經檢缺失的個案分析故意或過失行為的成分佔比主委金管會是不是會作為制定法規監理寬延的依據或參考進一步建構更完善的虛擬資產的市場是我想方向當然是這樣我想有些細節我請我們的那個局長給就跟院長做一個簡單的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3218.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3235.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
報告委員就是說我們在檢查過程當中已經是根據我們的現在初步針對洗錢房子的部分有這部分的缺失我們提這樣的一個意見給我們的檢查正期取來做一些核處目前已經有對11家的幣商來進行核處共計裁罰了1300多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3239.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3254.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
另外就是對於在未來在專法部分在有關於像內控內基的部分的要求還有法令遵循風險管理這部分這些共同的規範的部分我們日後一定會來做一個加強的檢查是 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3255.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3280.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
缺失中提到虛擬資產客戶審查措施有欠妥事像是為確認這些高風險客戶的財富以及資金的來源那以及對已向法務部調查局通報疑似洗錢交易STR的客戶為事實研判是否調整客戶風險等級那我請問主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3282.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3307.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
虛擬資產業者審查的措施欠妥適那到底是業者考量審查要求過嚴所以才會為了業績來便宜行事還是審查措施通報有主觀上的落差所以才會有陽奉陰違的這些情況的出現您的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3307.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3329.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我想剛才跟委員說明過我們的洗錢房制是一個非常非常嚴密的一個制度我想也是我們是遵循國際的規範以及其他部會我們共同來努力的部分那剛才講就是說他們在做這件事情的時候我們檢察局在檢查的時候發現了這個缺失我們就強烈要求我們也會移送相關的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3331.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3354.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
這個不法的情況我想這部分其實如果是任何的缺失它的動機我們不會知道但是我們會針對它的缺失我們就按照我們的規定該處罰 該糾正 該管理就加以執行主委 另外經檢缺失也提到心理資產業者對客戶交易時持續監控機制不夠完善 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3355.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3382.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
以及沒有建立有效的獨立集合的功能那我請問主委到底虛擬資產業者為什麼沒有辦法依據提供虛擬資產服務之事業或人員房子洗錢以及打擊知恐的這些辦法的規定來建構和運作合規的監控機制以及完善獨立集合功能呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3383.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3405.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
是跟委員報告其實我們在過去我們開始他是用洗房聲明進入到這個產業開始那是非常低度的管理後來我們今年3月30號開始以後他們必須登記制到9月底以前就剛才報告9月22號以前我們核准了9家以後接下來這些規範就會更為嚴格剛才委員提到就是說其實持續監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3406.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3426.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
我們的判斷是除了可能受限於他資源條件跟人力的配置以外還有就是他對整個產業他是否準備好可不可以持續精進所以我們在這個過程當中淘汰了非常多的業者也就是因為我們不斷的要求他們一定要做到既然在未來市場我們要健全發展這些都是很基本一定要做到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3427.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3440.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
主委對於虛擬資產業者的法規要求現階段到底是不是應該比照金融業者甚至於還需要更高另外會計師對虛擬資產業者的會計處理包括稅務的申報以及財產簽證等責任你認為國內的會計師是不是已經具備足夠的這些虛擬資產專業的準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3453.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3474.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
其實我們在那個登記制的時候呢我們已經開始納入會計師來做一個協助我想這是一個他們的一個報告也是非常重要當然對一個新興產業而言包括很多的未來的稅制還有像這個比如說未來會計如何表達這個可能大家都要應驗稅的部分不是金管會的主管我想我們的相關主管當然也會注意到這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3474.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3502.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那只是說未來我們在專法裡面確實如委員所說的我們未來對虛擬資產服務業是採取高度監管的態度就是說當然它可能跟金融機構不太一樣但是那個觀念上是相近的比如說我們這次增加了對它的資本額財業務 內控 內積這些都是我們典型對金融機構的管理這個就更加強化不只是為了洗錢而已主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3503.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3530.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
事實上由於詐騙手法不斷的翻新台灣已成為詐騙的重災區每日被騙的金額高達好幾億遠超過鄰近國家現在還因為外國媒體的報導台灣在整個國際社會被冠上詐騙之島的臭名那我請問主委你認為虛擬資產業者是不是已經做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3531.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3539.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
防範詐騙守法 污染的準備以及目前金管會的監禮法規現況主委你認為應不應該來加強哪些面向的規範才能夠讓民眾有安全無虞投資虛擬資產的環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3547.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3573.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我想委員剛才提到的確實是這次要立專法一個目的之一因為我們剛才提過我們打造專法裡面已經把VASP納入跟金融機構一樣的反詐的義務我想這次我們剛才提到就是說我們也發現到就是說比如說我們在資訊通報的時候我們只能同業之間通報未來我們也希望在異業把它納入來強化這部分這也是我們一定要來做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3573.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3595.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
好 最後一點 主委最近詐騙案件涉案對象多了許多專業人士甚至於包括公務員 包括律師 調查官俗話說 重賞之下必有勇夫那貪念更是罪惡的起點主委 現在就連支法換法的專業人士都可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3596.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3620.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
不顧高道德標準動起貪戀挺核走險來涉及詐騙案件那我請問主委你認為虛擬資產業者有沒有必要對行業中的專業人士要求善良管理人的注意義務以阻止這個生涉以生涉法這些情況的發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3621.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3640.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
對 委員剛剛提到沒有錯就是我們這次專法裡面有一個專門的執法是針對這些從業人員的資格條件包括消極跟積極資格都會做要求這是我們在監理金融市場最基本的概念我想這部分已經把它納入了這樣 我希望一定要嚴格規範 謝謝謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝林德福委員接下來我們請賴世保委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3658.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3670.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
謝謝主席 一起各位先進有請金管委的彭主委 央行的朱副總裁好 我們請彭主委 朱副總裁兩位長官委員長兩位長官好首先先請教一下朱副總裁我們看到在川普 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3680.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3699.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
上任之後你會發現到他很在乎是美國的股票市場他很在乎的是加密貨幣這個可以講叫心風作亂也好啦或者是推波助瀾也好啦加密貨幣理創性高黃金理創性高我就請問央行 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3701.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3709.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
你們的外匯存底的配置有沒有增加持有加密貨幣增加黃金有沒有央行的外匯資產一向是注重流動性安全性為原則我們沒有加密資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3719.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3722.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
沒有買加密貨幣沒有買黃金黃金是以前早期買最近有沒有買最近沒有最近一兩個月因為已經在高檔我們都沒買所以如果委員有機會到文言再看一下盤點一下完全跟10年前是一樣那個看不出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3739.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3747.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
一塊塊金塊怎麼看得到 你都沒有看到所以我們的外存底最多還是存有美債是不是應該是存有美顏計價的資產對 美顏計價的資產有八成以上這個我現在不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3760.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3765.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
很確定 因為隨時在動態調整最少有七成所以如果說你要比較經驗不不不 在這裡就要老實回答因為這是公共領域而且老百姓很關心我們的歐盟存底你到底放了哪些這個不是什麼機密就過去都講過我們的美元計價的八成然後日元計價多少歐盟計價多少 這個都有這是公開的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3789.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3805.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
正如委員剛才講現在國際金融市場動盪很大我們隨時在調整所以我現在真的也不知道我回去問一下我們外匯局我要現在回答啦是不是美元計價有沒有八成啦這只是我們總裁回答你的數字嗎總裁講的是八成我現在要你回答數字啊不是我真的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3813.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3831.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
因為我本身並沒有夜館到這個部分所以我沒辦法 對 是對不起所以差不多八成了不是喔 我不知道 謝謝芷佳你不能一路上不知道 不可以啊那你今天來幹什麼你要回答 要說什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3832.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3834.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
不是 我今天講的是講穩定幣這部分我沒想到您是要問外匯純體的外匯純體很重要好 那你另外總是可以回答了嘛美國降息一碼12月未知台幣是不是會再升值12月降息怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3852.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3870.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
你們要看我的Power Point美國不是已經降息一碼嗎剛宣布了啊那12月不知道啦有人預估說12月還要降息一碼啦那央行會不會跟著從美國降息台幣到升值啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3872.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3877.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
其實這樣啦 因為美國是一個大國他的降息我講我的邏輯啦美國降息他一定會 像您講的那個跟各國之間的利差會改變但台灣 我們台灣也有自己的考量啦比如說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3894.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3897.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
有幾個央行政策的目標不是只有利差對比如說外匯市場影響還有我們的通貨膨脹經濟成長率等等不是利率政策是理事會決定不是利率這是匯率 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3919.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3930.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
匯率 你可以看一下我的題目匯率的話 坦白說利差只是其中的一個因素現在的國際金融市場我問你 你怎麼說你講了這麼多 我現在講讓我這麼說 你回答我台幣是不是可能再升值 就這樣子回答我 我這樣講如果我們的經濟前景很好 外匯市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3947.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3958.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
這個部分怎麼反應因為外資會進來看好我們嘛所以外資若進來他對我們有信心這個是市場決定的你給我回答是不是會升值啦就外資的行為來講他資金進來是升可是他若不進來跟我們對你今年跟你以前不一樣耶以前敢講話今天不敢講話已經奇怪不知道今天來幹什麼都是這樣子歐陵生徒不可以這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3976.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3989.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
來 我們兩位長官如果發行穩定幣是你們誰管 金管會管還是央行管保護委員 因為這是因為它定在我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面等一下 等一下 主事總裁先不要走 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3990.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4006.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
副總裁 你先不要走 還沒叫你走因為您好像希望知道一些相關的信息我必須請問你不要讓我時間來來來 彭主委來是 剛剛跟委員說明就趕快邀讓有什麼要Case給他資料 趕快給 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4008.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4020.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
因為這部法裡面第二條明定主管機關是金管會但是我們在穩定幣專章裡面有提到因為這會試射到貨幣跟外匯所以這部分我們是跟央行共管 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4021.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4038.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
那請問央行的支付總裁穩定幣是不是貨幣是不是貨幣穩定幣是支付的工具所以有支付功能這可以視為視為貨幣你總裁講的不一樣喔 講不講不是貨幣喔不是總裁講貨幣不是貨幣喔你回去再叫我媽喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4046.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4065.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我不要害你喔 蛤穩定幣是代幣啦代幣啦 你不是那個玩那個PATJINGO啊 對不對那個代幣 穩定幣是其中之一 對吧 彭總裁 對吧來 那個彭主委 對吧報告委員 它是一種私部門發行的數位貨幣蛤 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4066.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4083.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
私部門發行的數位貨幣 私部門所以任何公司都可以發可是它要符合我們現在的虛擬資產管理法的這個 問你是不是貨幣是不是貨幣它如果是以法幣1比1的掛鉤它就是屬於私人部門發行的數位貨幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4084.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4096.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
私人發行的數位貨幣可是更精準的應該它是代幣的對吧它應該是一種代幣化的技術所發行的主委 你告訴我穩定幣是什麼代幣對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4097.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4119.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我跟委員報告一下代幣其中之一就是如果說根據我們那個草案我們也參考MECA的規定就是它的制定的辦法我們先定義虛擬資產那我們在裡面定義是說它以跟價值連結的一種虛擬資產所以基本上穩定幣所以它是資產它是虛擬資產的一種在我們的法律裡面定義是一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4120.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4147.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
這個很重要喔這個因為對公子人員包括你啊大官啊都要申報財產喔如果有比特幣的話都要申報喔如果你這樣講的話過去是不用申報的喔因為 央行不承認是貨幣喔央行不承認是資產喔所以今天央行的態度有改變喔來 央行的三位長官請離開喔因為我時間有限請教彭主委喔玉山青最近病了三傷受 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4149.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4169.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這個事情到現在為止沒有發布重訊參與競爭的有一個中信金10月23號還發重訊為什麼玉山金可以這麼老大不發重訊而且沒有經過董事會通過有沒有經過董事會通過要不要查一下 誰可以回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4171.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4188.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個事情外面很關心這個題目我知道這個有關上市櫃公司該不該發重訊那是在因為是上市櫃公司跟證交所之間訂有一個契約他有一個明定根據交易所的規定他有如列了51項該做重訊的請問你這是重訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4195.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4222.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我先跟委員說明一下這個是交易所跟上市會公司之間的約定他們會上面爐列了這麼多由上市會公司進行判斷但交易所如果認為有必要的時候可以請他做說明我想剛剛委員有提到其中有一家公司因為他開了董事會他就發了重訊按照他那個標準的規範重訊沒有搶到 搶金搶到他就發布重訊結果玉山金搶到了他還沒有發布重訊這奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4224.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4240.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這件事情跟委員報告這到底什麼貓膩啊我們已經像這個事他跟交易所之間我們知道這個事情我們就已經責成交易所趕快去了解到交易所你們銀行局 政經局都路人甲當然不會是路人甲你們路人甲你們有角色扮演 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4243.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4264.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這個委員剛剛講到角色扮演正是這個因為在整個過程當中包括他們整個去做這個雙方協商的過程真正的話他們未來如果按照按照他們要做完董事會以後做成正式的決議才會送到今晚會來我們要看到他正式的股票市場都反映了玉山金股票重挫啊三商的股票暴漲股市都反映了結果他們都沒有報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4271.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4294.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以說我們昨天我們在記者會也講清楚我們已經請交易所按照他們的規定去了解交易所也請他們三家公司沒有 我就確定一點這個算不算重訓這是不是重訓是交易所跟他們之間的認定我們一起請交易所我們會請交易所查明以後對外說明這個也把政企局長 張局長看扁了他沒事可以做 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4296.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4313.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
也不是 因為這是本來就是一個在教育世界發中訓的過程我反而依據他的規定來做的小問題 但是很重要的小問題來 說花布啊普發現金一萬塊說13歲以上不可以由父母帶領他的理由說已經可以理財自主 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4314.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4343.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
金管會同意嗎他可以理財自儲嗎我想他不會被騙嗎有關普發現金這是由財政部來主政金管會負責是ATM的部分我想我想這部分比如說至於說未成年人的他的一些權利義務就回歸到民法的概念比如說他其實在未成年如果他也可以按照我們現行符合民法規定他也可以去開戶我想這部分金管會呢大致是沒有啦這個我要強調了財政部也應該發新衛保財經了我很快把它結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4344.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4356.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
被詐欺的人口18歲到23歲最多每10萬人627人所以年紀越小越容易被詐欺結果現在樹 花布等於侵入到你的地盤 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4358.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4369.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
明確的指出來13歲已經有金融自主的權利理財自主這個都是你們的管區這個銀行局你們要講話這個東西他都已經殺到你地盤結果你都點點其實沒什麼地盤的問題我們各自有分工我想財政部也做出了新聞稿說明我想我們在這一部分我們就針對我們該比如說法律怎麼規定銀行怎麼做我們就怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4388.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4400.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
沒有 你贊成13歲以上就不要父母配嗎我個人是強烈反對啦這個不是金管會能夠回答的問題啦我是一個金管會主委 我不會去你要去回答啊因為你講說13歲13歲畢竟未成年才國一他能夠自己理財 他容易受騙啦不是 主要是根據民法上面對於未成年人有他的一些能力行為的規範啦好 謝謝 謝謝賴委員接下來我們請郭國文委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4422.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4448.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
主席有請彭主委我們請彭主委你好彭主委這個報紙的標題做得很大穩定幣發行納管拼明年上路看到沒有這麼大看不到是不是我待會請人送過去明年上路明明現在要進入第四階段現在目前還躺在行政院裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4448.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4464.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
要法律通過才會第四階段對我知道然後如果你這麼有信心常常談到行政院立法院現在變化多數那我請問一下如果明年可以上路的話最有可能是明年上半年還是下半年那個標題不是我下的我沒有這麼說不是你下的對我只是說看起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4465.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4485.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我是說假設立法通過以後我們在半年之內要頒布這個相關的執法所以明年上半年有機會了如果說法律通過後行政機關在半年之內要公布所有的立法執法要半年這半年之內要最後半年之內要公布如果要半年的話如果要上半年那除非這個會期通過嘛這個會期顯然是 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4486.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4509.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
變數重重對不對這要看大院什麼時候通過其實我們的執法都在準備中了行政院都還沒送來就不是大院的問題立法院的問題來 主委最近前一段時間有些案例知名的餐廳什麼香園賓士東影快車所的老闆與違法的第三方支付非能量登錄的Hero Pet合作替海外博弈集團洗錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4511.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4538.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
更誇張的是半年洗30億當然第三方支付書發布的事情但是這裡頭有共管的問題那本席在民間還有聽過什麼麵包店 按摩店 水產店甚至是眼鏡行還有那種24小時的這裡頭有一個特點一個是內需市場二來呢 現金流為主那為什麼可以做到這種階段呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4541.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4563.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
照說這些屬於內需市場的服務業它應該沒有所謂的海外除非它有海外據點分店或者加盟不至於有這麼多海外業務需要匯款所以當這些匯款的部分它會透過金融單位的時候難道銀行就讓它直接 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4564.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4584.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
把這個高額海外的匯款匯出去嗎雖然這個案子目前檢方還在偵辦當中但是現在類似這種現象在民間還普遍被討論這個主委是 我想剛剛有幾個問題剛剛委員其實講的就是真的因為剛剛提到你也知道嘛 沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4584.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4605.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這些業態都不是我們現在金管住管但剛才講假設牽涉到匯款特別是匯款就是說這個匯款的部分我們有有一套的規定去來做這個限制比如包括最近因為詐騙很盛行我們也針對這一塊我們也在著力但是細節我不能再公開說明我只是說這部分包括反洗錢很多東西都有一定的規範在做 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4606.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4626.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
當然我們是看到一個案例以後回推會覺得這個是一件不可以但是我們會這是冰山一角對這不是單一案例好不好就是單一案例的價值本席今天講說好幾個行業我在民間在跑都有聽到沒錯委員講的是就是說我們會從這些案例裡面再回推我們整個在防控上面有沒有漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4627.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4652.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
这就是今天我质询您的重点就是说已经有这种现象检方也将侦办了至少他要透过银行海外汇款的时候我们要如何把关对没错就是这很关键交易的部分我们应该会来那为什么一开始我要问说你稳定币什么时候上路跟这个又有关系为什么因为稳定币也会变成一种媒介对不对它也有可能会造成这样的结果好我们再看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4654.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4683.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
穩定幣基本上它也有可能會造成洗錢的工具也就是說我上次的這個部分它不是透過銀行匯款而是透過穩定幣的這種部分來進行把款項匯出這個部分你要如何去防弊就是說銀行還有一個公司治理的KYC那個問題是現在的交易所你有要求類似的公司治理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4684.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4711.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我們現在的交易所的話它應該有要加強這個監管的強度嗎你剛剛說目前虛擬貨幣是屬於高度監管的現在只是登記制還沒有達到我們的高度監管還沒達到嘛 還沒到嘛那也就是說將來如果說你開放之後有可能會類似的情況多開放一個管道甚至目前搞不好就有了因為現在交易所目前這個UB一大堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4713.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4731.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
現在我們9家裡面確實有在經營交易所的對 已經有了 已經有在交易了所以有時候這個時候我們是不是應該就要去看有沒有可能當我們在銀行端的時候緊縮的時候他會不會跑到這邊來對 確實我們在銀行跟VASP交易的部分我們有訂定相關的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4732.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4755.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所以我們現在來講比如說他們現在上次講過他完全不能用現金做交易所以我們現在全部都要透過那個法幣帳戶所以它就跟銀行之間產生了未來我們做KYC這些都比較容易做對 我意思是說這個部分也應該要求將來對於交易所的部分那另外一個部分因為穩定幣接下來因為它的這個成本低 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4755.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4776.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
然後交易又快速那這種情況底下它會不會把既有的這個海外的這個外匯的這個交易量的這個內容當中把它替代掉既有外匯會替代的可能這個有很多討論就是因為它穩定並肯最重要是跨境支付跨境支付一定是比如說它一定是用這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4777.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4804.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
不同的幣別的穩定幣之間在做交易那我想這部分的話未來的話其實各國都很重視這是我們會跟央行來好好密切來管因為這主要是央行 我就講到央行這個問題我問過楊總裁他說未來是不是有衝擊要看使用者的對穩定幣有無信心我不曉得你的判斷如何當然所有的貨幣的使用都跟使用者的信心就像比如說我們現在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4805.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4831.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
其中的泰達幣他也沒有受到監管但大家為什麼覺得就是有人信任他如果沒有信心不會流通CCC由美國監管他才相信對 沒有錯通常CCC有市場才有法規市場已經流通過了然後法規才跟進同樣的方式像那個Swift有一個現實上的一個交換機制但以後的虛擬貨幣的部分有沒有類似的這一種監理的機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4831.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4856.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
那當然是未來監理的重點剛剛有報告過就是我們對剛才委員講說我們總共7個樣態的Vespa業者裡面其中最核心的大概就是交易平台商他會做了很多業態未來在監管的強度應該也是最強的就是交易平台商對他的要求也比較多那這個再來就是對他的一些的資本的要求人員的管控這些應該都會比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4857.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4882.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
有 你在相關的八大的執法當中有特別講到對於人員的部分的消極跟積極資格我們對各種不同因為我們現在有七大類的幣七大類對 其中有一個所謂的交易平台商就是我們講類似續幣的交易所這個概念它會做到很多其他業務這是很重要的部分我們在內部執法裡面我們已經會做分級的管理會做一些分級的管理 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4883.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4901.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所以但是看起來總體而言有沒有可能那個金管會跟央行對於這流進來現在主要是這個UB維多這個部分的流進的這個部分的流量還有流出的這個部分將來有一個海外匯款的一個申報機制的可能性 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4901.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4927.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
有 我想說剛剛那個包括央行的報告跟我們的報告裡面這裡面他要呈報的資訊裡面我們Vespa比如說KYC他換了這些的量這些定期的報表應該申報什麼東西應該都未來都是非常重要就是說業者會字節然後通報給主管機關這個就是他被納管最基本的要求最基本的要求所以說都會做一個基本的流量管控當然好 那接下來還有一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4929.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4951.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
現階段我們的穩定幣在世界上最主流的部分大概泰達幣還有Circle的部分發行的UB這兩種為主一個大家占7成多一個大家占2成多現階段的話穩定幣最關鍵的就目前官方所透露除了銀行之外還沒有可能誰可以發行 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4952.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4980.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
其實按照國外它實際上當然最重要是所謂的就是銀行機構再來還有其他像美國的話它有經過他們聯邦同意也可以還有就是比如說像比如說以香港為例它也沒有限制說比如說很多電商也有可能來申請沒有 就一般的虛擬貨幣我們不管但是就穩定幣的部分有沒有可能交易所或其他的地方可以有發行的可能性像剛剛委員提到那個兩大USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4982.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5003.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
對 剛才那兩大就是USDT跟USDC就不是金融機構發的對 就不是嘛那我是不是說在台灣呢在台灣因為我們現在的規定你的穩定幣的話要金融機構先發行嘛 對不對我們是參照MICA的我們沒有在法律上把它限縮但是我們在很多公開的場合我們說我們基於省省 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5004.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5029.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
省政的態度我們會優先的由金融機構來發行對 我知道我是說衍生後面的部分有沒有可能其他的好 那另外目前好像沒有國際的業者落地是不是我們監管得太嚴了沒有 我想我們在這個專法裡面就有一個有針對國外VASP來申請我想這個我們都是開放的未來的話我們也真會境外像剛剛講有穩定幣來講在境外就是專法之後會比較更開放就是了對 它會有明確的遊戲規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5030.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5051.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
好 最后一个问题有关于这些交易所的部分有没有可能开放一些衍生性的商品就如同去年本席在担任这一个招委的时候有去海外参访我们去看了日本的稳定币日本的部分基本上的虚拟货币的监管非常的严格 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5051.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5068.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
即便這麼嚴格的情況底下它還是有開放開放一些衍生性的商品類似像這個期貨的概念的一個商品但是需要一些特定的概感比的一個演算法的公司這個有沒有可能是台灣未來走的方向類似於日本這個虛擬的演 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5068.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5092.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
衍生性業務的話我剛才在報告裡面也說了就是說我們在那個虛擬資產業務裡面我們留了一個其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務我們剛才說我們會根據我們現實這些業者經營的狀況以及風險管控的能力以及國際的趨勢我們在看需求隨時可以來做調整看市場發展逐步放寬應該是我們逐步漸進來做這件事越漸淺就越多元當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5094.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5099.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
謝謝主委的回覆謝謝國務委員接下來我們請賴會員委員謝謝主席有請央行副總裁還有業務局局長我們請朱副總裁還有謝局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5123.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5144.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
副總裁 局長 早安我想針對的就是在去年6月12號那本席當任召委的時候我有辦了一個虛擬資產服務法的公聽會那在這個公聽會裡頭就是有很多的學者他跟專家他都給了很多的一個建議那他也期望 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5145.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5163.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
就是期待行政部門保留一個創新的空間那當然就是說我們希望就是國際化那也保障投資人所以在這裡頭這一個新法我們希望金融會安全那個洗錢的一個防治法要能建立還有數位組錢這裡頭都是一個關鍵的一個轉折點 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5167.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5188.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
在這裡我想請教央行副總裁有幾個問題我想請教你就是說在這一次的虛擬資產服務法裡頭的草案第34條裡頭它有提到穩定幣等一下你解釋一下穩定幣跟我們央行的CBDC它有什麼樣的一個不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5189.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5217.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那除了不同以外那在資料裡頭我們又看到了就是說今天審查的這個草案裡頭穩定幣你把它列入了一個規劃那這個穩定幣你要扮演一個那個最主要就是說你要進行監管這個是後段的後段的監管會那你的目的是什麼站在央行的一個角度請跟我提出這幾個說明好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5219.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5239.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我先做個簡單的說明那詳細部分請我們局長補充基本上央行的CVDC是屬於具有法幣性質只是他用數位的方式來發行第二個CVDC這個出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5241.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5266.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
它分兩層有一層是央行跟金融機構之間的一個關係第二層是金融機構跟一般客戶我們講的使用者的關係CBDC最主要的處理的是央行跟金融機構這種大額清算等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5267.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5287.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以這個是它的特質簡單的講它是不是就是一個流動的新台幣應該是電子化的新台幣電子化的一個新型的電子化的新台幣但是它不會用到一般資戶最主要是在跟金融資格之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5288.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5315.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
他需要那個始祖的準備金那花行者達到一定的金額的時候一定要向央行那個就是繳交這個準備金那當然就是說這一個那個穩定幣的當中他有交易的仲介還有替代那個通貨的功能那這裡我要請教你穩定幣會不會比照通貨還是那個我們的那個火期那個存款裡頭把它列為就是記幣的範圍呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5321.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5345.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
你說什麼季幣 哪一個季幣我跟你講穩定幣穩定幣就是它一定是要繳準備金那準備金裡頭你會不會比照就是說未來會不會比照通貨不是通盆 是通貨還是活期性的一個存款列為貨幣的季幣的一個範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5346.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5371.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們現在的地體準備金的部分就是比照現在的電子支付因為它是一種電子支付代幣化的支部門發行的虛偽貨幣現在的呢現在電子支付是地級準備金是以活期存款的準備率在地體準備金所以你通貨有沒有把它列進去呢你活期已經列進去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5373.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5400.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
因为它是等于把钱放到发行者的账户里面去那我们就是视同它就是有吸收这一笔的资金那这一笔的资金的这一部分就是提出来以活期存款的不会是1比1吗它现在就是1比1你说准备资产的部分吗准备资产是整体的那准备资产有包括准备金那具体准备金剩余的部分就是可以买高品质高流动性的这些金融资产 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5401.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5425.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那这个加起来的准备资产要大一点纳进去跟不纳进去有什么样的一个影响你分析给我听你说准备金不纳进去的话吗对好 第一个因为它是要跟因为它是像的功能支付功能跟现在的电子制度管理条例是类似的所以我们需要说相同的业务相同的活动要适用相同的规定所以有具体准备金这样规定那当然是安全嘛那第二个准备金的部分是有保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5426.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5432.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
因為準備經濟體制了之後如果它發生問題可以保障消費者的權益那對台灣的一個貨幣資產它的影響層面是怎麼樣其實我覺得重點還是在影響到金融體系的存款因為今天如果是私人私部門某一個非銀行機構去發行穩定幣那是不是你要把資金吸到這個非銀行機構的這個機構的本身 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5453.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5470.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
用戶一定會從銀行的存款提出來放到這些私部門機構去發行穩定幣所以其實比較衝擊的應該是銀行存款這個體系這個存款的流失我這樣聽起來其實你們還是非常的保守 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5471.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5491.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
那個軍管會主委一直講說要有一個創新當然那個主委我等一下那個下半段就是請教你那這個上半段央行是趨於一個比較保守一個比較保守你有沒有想到就是說其實我們新台幣它處於一個比較劣勢因為我們不夠國際化 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5493.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5520.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
那不夠國際化我們的知名度又不夠我們不像新加坡不像那個香港他們其實是有一個比較想的一個國際知名度然後我們又不是世界那個流通的一個貨幣我們也不是美金也不是日幣也不是歐元那如果你用這麼保守的一個貨幣政策的話是不是會影響未來比特幣的一個發展那當然剛才我坐在那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5523.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5540.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
坐在我的同事旁邊我同事就告訴我說我對這個法案事實上我是有點擔心我是不知道要怎麼對待擔心起來因為我也知道說勢必是一定要推動的可是在推動的過程裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5541.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5559.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
如果我們不跟世界接軌的話那我們會非常的一個吃虧那顯然就是說在這個過程裡頭那個新台幣的穩定幣必須要就是100%的一個準備金那這個準備金你們會把它指定放在這個央行或是指定的金融機構呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5561.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5576.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
我們不是100%的準備金而是一部分是體存準備金1比1為什麼不是100%呢不是 它的準備金的構成成分是準備金還有其他高流動性的資產所以準備金只是其中的一部分不是100%不是100%對 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5581.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5591.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
不是百分之百好 那就是民間發行的新台幣的穩定幣的話它不一定就是必須100%的一個準備金不是100%的準備金但是100%的準備資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5594.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5611.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
好 是100%的準備資產那你的規模要晃到多大那就要看整個這個部門它發行的量有多大沒有 你一定要有一個準備你打算你的規模要晃到最大是晃到哪裡你不可以連這個都打不出來就是看這個部門發行的穩定幣的量規模有多大才會以這個量去記提所謂的準備資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5622.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5629.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
所以你們打算就是說這個規模要晃到多大總是有一個天花板你有一個地板總是會有一個天花板你不可能連這個問題都答不出來那我們怎麼支持你這個草案通過呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5648.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5664.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
店主师傅来看的话他的准备金如果单纯讲准备金大概是10.10%左右我现在在问你说我不是在问准备金我已经翻页了我在问你说你的规模有多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5666.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5680.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
目前我看的虛擬資產的這個專法裡面是沒有規模的一個限額那我想後續可能再跟金管會這邊目前看母法是沒有但是我想後續我們可能會跟金管會再來做一些溝通交流 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5681.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5692.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
所以有沒有跟金管會溝通過這個問題我要講母法是一個一般概念將來有相關的執法訂定的部分那你們跟金管總是會討論過主委主委所以相關執法這個部分應該比較清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5699.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5717.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
好 主委我想那個是不是你來回答我這一個問題我們有關穩定幣因為剛剛也涉及到可能是外匯還有貨幣的問題我們這個所有的草案包括我們這個草案裡面總共有八個條文每一個條文都跟央行做過非常密切的溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5718.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5735.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
包括未來的執法也都是一定是因為這個確實牽涉到兩個像剛剛韋恩的投影片裡面像比如新加坡MS它就是兼具金管會跟央行的功能他們就很容易協調那我想我們在這邊兩個部分應該沒有什麼問題在這一塊我們有很高度的共識在管理這個市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5736.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5750.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我還是希望你會後給我這一個大概一個參考你們的規模到底要做到哪裡就是我們會想說未來對於穩定幣整個規範的架構還有這些細節內容我再跟委員做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5751.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5771.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
那一方面要監理一邊又希望豁免他的監理的一個管理權這個有沒有矛盾就是在你的這個草案裡頭就是說你希望就是授權業者有創新的一個實驗可是你又希望他不適用於本法這個會不會出現結構性的一個矛盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5771.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5794.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
其實不會啦 跟委員說明因為這個是因為我們覺得為了要鼓勵這個創新我把那個創新實驗條例也適用到這個VASP的這個只是說就像我們現在所有金融機構都可以都可以來適用所以你讓它更靈活就是說未來假設比如說它有一個是我們在整個這個虛擬資產服務法規範下面框線到一個新型的業態的話我們可以暫時跟它用 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5794.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5811.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那如果業者進行大規模的募資的話那你會不會就是介入那是不是會有一個尖裡的沙盒還是說會有一個灰色的避風港其實不會有其實這種灰色地帶在模糊地帶我們就是擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5812.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5820.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
一些狀況就是發生在這個模糊地帶沒有關係 那個主委我想我們再來共同討論好不好其實不會有這個問題啦這個條文只是說讓他試用書面說明給賴委員好不好讓他試用創新實驗條例好 謝謝我們謝謝賴委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5843.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5846.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
主席 麻煩請金管會彭主委好 我們請彭主委委員早早 請問美國的這個穩定幣現在進行到的程度是怎麼樣現在美國穩定幣就是剛剛講的天才法案天才法案應該據我所知還在做最後一個確認不過他們已經開始已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5867.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5894.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
就是美元的穩定幣現在在市場上已經是主流了他們現在納管的部分好像他一個立法程序最後要完成所以已經先走了然後法律還沒有完備不是 他們確實是過去USDT或USDC這兩個早就已經存在的東西其實我個人認為過去這個貨幣的發行是國家的主權行為那如果你這個穩定幣跟美元是掛鉤1比1 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5895.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5925.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
然後讓渡給私人去發行這是把國家的主權行為下放這裡產生一個問題這個貨幣的總供給量就M2會不會因為這樣子而增加這個可能要請央行來回答比較精準這個部分因為央行我知道他們的答案就是說我不把這個算入貨幣但是我是覺得在整體在市面上流動的貨幣就是會增加那個副總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5931.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5935.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
其實這個問題我們最近在演藝中還流程還蠻複雜的要看譬如說花型之後那個花型商賣出去他收到的那個款項他怎麼用如果他把它當作存款 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5950.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5956.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這個存款的項目是在貨幣供給的項目裡面可是現在穩定幣發行的又可以當交易的媒介如果從這個部分它有一個影響在這邊然後還有一個另外一個流向它並不存回銀行體系作為存款它可能買去我們說它可以有高品質的金融資產所以它可能去買債券等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5978.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6003.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
那债券他钱就没有留回银行体系所以会有影响假设他去买债券问题是这个稳定币的取得者他要如何使用这个稳定币不是你能够控制的不是稳定币他发行就在稳定币的这个币圈流通那这一边当然他就有交易的功能那你同时有交易的功能问题是你本来国家的 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6004.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6010.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
貨幣的總供給量M2本來是有受控的但是你再加上這個東西之後這個東西的數量你有辦法總計在裡面嗎我現在這樣講我先講後面流通再來您講的總計如果它在幣圈流通這就是一個交易的媒介那這邊就牽涉到我們要不要把穩定幣它有交易功能要納入貨幣供給這一個項目如果你不納入跟納入這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6034.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6035.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
對啊 你到底納入還不納入因為在計算貨幣供給有M1 M2那你要看要不要列到因為你從M1這邊拿了貨幣去買所以你如果要納入它可能就跑到M2那這邊就有一增一減 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6053.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6067.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
那这个增加会产生什么样的后果呢还有一个这是第一层第二层是说币商拿到钱我刚才讲我的意思是说刚刚你回答了我是说币商拿到钱他要怎么使用不是你可以控制的吗不是 会影响到货币供给所以这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6069.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6072.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
影響增減我們說這樣看起來目前沒辦法說是增還是減要去看他們怎麼用那個有一個流程所以這是我們目前的一個邏輯所以我剛剛講說我為什麼會擔憂這個東西我個人認為如果M2的整體是增加的那你國家的主權行為本來你的貨幣供給是有一定在央行的控制之下如果你這個供給增加太多會造成通貨膨脹啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6096.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6112.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
那不只是通貨膨脹會影響到我們講的就是說貨幣政策效果中另外一個利率水準好 那另外一個問題美國的穩定幣你同不同意它在台灣使用當作美金的支付工具這是國家跟國家之間的主權行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6114.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6136.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
這個你們有討論過嗎我想是這樣如果美國花型的穩定幣要進入台灣的市場我們儘管會有些規定應該是看他們的規定有一些他規定不到有一些就在網路上直接支付掉了網路上直接支付掉了也不是你們能夠控制的那怎麼辦我覺得現在好像即使沒規定也是有這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6138.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6167.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
就是跟委員說明一下我們在那個穩定幣裡面呢分兩個一個是台灣發行就是對本國募集嘛這個當然沒問題那再來第一個就是國外已經募集已經存在的話他如果要在我們的所謂的未來的虛擬資產服務業裡面進行交易要經過我們的同意等於說他要經過我們的同意還包括追蹤除了我剛剛的問題他如果進來經過你的同意這個還比較好控制他現在因為網路無國界你根本就控制不到他他直接就在網路上支付了對確實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6169.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6193.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
台灣的政府就中華民國政府要不要承認是一回事事實上它已經發生了就像我在總質詢的時候經濟部長跟我講說我們台灣不接受中國的電商經營問題是所有的拼多多淘寶的貨品大量進來了你不承認它是存在的啊不是說我不承認它就不存在啊那我現在一個問題美國的穩定幣看起來台灣非接受不可 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6194.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6205.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
因為除非你要跟美國對幹但是我覺得不太可能我們中華民國政府不太可能好那如果他在台灣做支付這一些就會變成我剛剛講的廣義的國家貨幣總體供給 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6209.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6225.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
有可能會不受控他的金額會增加很多那當然這個金額增加很多M2增加很多的時候另外一個考慮的問題是說會不會造成整個通貨膨脹的問題因為等於就是廣義的貨幣流通在台灣就增加了很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6226.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6252.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
這跟委員提到就是說我們從這個比如說穩定幣從過去這一段子在國際上使用確實有一個狀況就是有些國家的民眾對自己本國的貨幣反而信心不夠他會希望持有穩定幣反而成為民間支付一個很重要的這個工具它是自然形成的就是說在確實剛才委員提到就是說在網路世界裡面當我某些國人他自有能力然後透過這個方式去 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6254.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6270.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
購買或是去轉換他這個時候確實我們在整個在我們這個法規管理上面是未來要再努力的地方因為我們現在是希望針對說我們現在納管這些業者然後再來就對於一般民眾我們加大他的保護的範圍是啦我知道你這個立法的目的但是我剛剛講的這些疑慮是要先想的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6278.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6292.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
我個人認為未來美國的穩定幣一定會透過各種途徑進到台灣來台灣的人也不會去拒絕全世界沒有人會拒絕美金因為美金的流動性跟它的可信度都是現在世界所有貨幣裡面最強的 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6293.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6313.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
你坦白講 你問我說你是要持有新台幣還是要持有美金如果我有選擇方便的話如果方便的話我當然希望持有美金那我還沒有匯率的我還不會規避匯率的問題啊我們的保險業也不用買那麼多的那麼多的這個在外國投資的時候要買那麼多的這個平衡保險啊不用避那麼多險 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6315.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6329.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那這些問題馬上就會來所以我是認為說定這個東西非定不可確實因為時代來了你不改變不行但是很多問題要先想清楚你M2的供給 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6330.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6352.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
如果美國這邊1比1他是鎖美國公債跟美金而且要鎖住那麼多才能發行等量的穩定幣美國公債就是因為美國政府要讓他賣他的公債他認為他的美國公債的價值跟他的美金現鈔是一樣的這我們能理解台灣的穩定幣發行如果不要鎖百分之百的你說資產資產怎麼估資產有貶值的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6357.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6384.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
那將來我的這個穩定幣的發行結果我的資產事實上我發行的時候100%那漲跌的時候要怎麼調整再來如果我跌的時候我的穩定幣還是發行在那邊那我的貨幣的總體供給就增加出來了另外在流通的時候我不用信貸幣交易我用穩定幣交易整體的貨如果你把它當作支付的工具當作貨幣的一個形式的話那整體的貨幣供給也是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6384.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6411.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
委員剛才講的這些都是非常非常深入的問題就是開放這樣的一個新的業種以後會產生什麼樣的影響這其實就是我們在日常開會還有找專家學者再仔細研商因為未來我們要定那個穩定幣的管理辦法包括剛才這些全部都要考慮這些問題而且我看到當然不是你的問題法務部的那個草案說到那個三年以上十年以下然後罰兩千萬到 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6414.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6418.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
幾千萬到兩億這個如果給你出一個包動輒金額是幾百億幾千億的你罰他們一點點這樣夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6423.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6444.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
這個罰則的部分當然我們有提出來當然就是也要社會有共識看要做什麼而且這個如果出包那個包子大要小心所以它背後的一些封控像剛剛包括一些準備資產像剛剛委員提到那個準備資產的穩定程度還有對外的揭露還有一些平常的調控監控這都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6445.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6473.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這個索性是國外已經有一段時間的經驗了那我們這部分我們剛好在後面再進來的人比較多可以參考我是覺得我個人如果我的理解是多參考一下當然有一幣要這麼急嗎這是一個考慮我們其實沒有急我剛剛跟委員講說我們但是不要落後第二我就要再提醒你一次一個問題前一陣子光是這個比特幣被震盪的那一下因為槓桿的關係很多人被清倉強制平倉就Clean |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6474.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6492.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
對 這也是剛剛有委員提到說要不要開放這些演商的商品有沒有所以我們就非常謹慎是 我要提醒你我再次提醒台灣人的特性賺錢沒有人會感謝政府集體賠的錢就要找你算帳 找你負責你一定要記得這個特性謝謝 謝謝委員的提醒 謝謝好 謝謝吳委員接下來我們請鍾嘉賓委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6507.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6517.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
主席在黨委員監禁列席的政府金管組長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生有請金管會彭主委還有央行的朱副總裁請彭主委朱副總裁 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6521.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6538.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
主委好當然今天有央行的題目先問一個時事的議題就是玉山金併購三商售居然有媒體的標題是說是摸黑交易因為根據我們證交所的相關處理程序重大投資它必須 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6540.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6554.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
要做一個重訓的發布那有人說玉山精英的團隊既然已經去投標去出具有法律約束力的文件那麼如果沒有經過董事會的決議這樣可以嗎金管會的看法怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6555.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6577.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我想我們相關的交易他們都是具有他們都非常清楚什麼叫公司治理我想這件事情我們已經責成交易所去主動去了解我剛才有委員詢問這個問題我會請交易所調查完畢再跟社會做報告因為這主要是交易所跟他們之間的這樣的契約關係我們一定要請交易所去跟他們做 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6578.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6598.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
是的我想不只一位委員關心表示這是一個大家都關心的議題所以請經管會一定要慎重處理那當然我們昨天在那個應該前天的記者會也表達這樣看法好謝謝那我們也期待調查後的結果好那麼三商售它的RVC如果沒有達標您覺得我們來推估預算金會溢價收購嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6603.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6618.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
應該是我覺得我們在做帳務的財報的價值跟它未來持續經營的價值這兩個是有不同的看法我想為什麼每次的收購合併案都有所謂的溢價 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6619.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6640.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
就是那個持續經營價值的預期大家不同就等於說我們現在看到它的價值是一個所謂的進變現的概念就現在我做一個清償它價值多少但是我繼續經營就像我開一家餐廳我餐廳如果現在馬上清掉了我的資材設備就是值這麼多錢但是我長期經營假設我是個經營能力好的人我看到的價值是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6641.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6664.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
但是正是因為今晚會公布了一個ICS過渡措施所以三商售它就算是有合格了沒有 它就是必須對它以前資本的缺口完全不能消失是 所以它必須承諾那未來的接手的人他也必須要 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6665.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6684.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
蓋瓜承受所以這種情況之下願意溢價來併購的跟金管會在ICS過渡措施有關聯嗎我想這個他們是協商的過程金管會是不會介入我想這個是一個市場機制市場機制的判斷我們在這因為我們一定要等他開始他知道他蓋瓜承受了所以他知道心裡有譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6685.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6713.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
他當然再來他送件的時候比如說未來他們有送件的時候正式通過他們的這個所謂公私治理股東民主程序決議通過以後按照我們金控法的規定還有保險法的規定送到金管會我們就來看他這部分的承諾還有這些的內容好 謝謝那接下來請您暫時休息一下先不加消息那請副總裁來問一下聯準會之前我就問過總裁不過今天是副總裁來我就問說聯準會的降息跟台股的新高會不會有關聯那時候還沒降 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6714.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6722.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
那現在呢 林仁偉呢現在 聯儲會降啦那台股又創新高那到底有沒有關係呢是台股的體質好我們的出口產業強勁創新產業強勁 是什麼原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6726.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6755.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
有没有关联应该影响的因素很多很多但是如果我们真的台股很好外资也会进来买外资很愿意来买对 应该是这样但是因为外资大局进入那有人又说那央行的没收的这个汇率的升幅出手没收讲得很重但是我们都认为央行是要持续的因为我们台湾是出口导向那吻会很重要那这个汇率影响程度央行怎么运营 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6757.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6779.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我應該這麼講其實外匯市場的匯率應該是市場供需決定很難預測但是我們看外資他進來買但外資在台股投資獲利很高他還有一個隨時將他的獲利匯出去所以對匯率的影響其實進來買好像是 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6782.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6796.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
一個方向 對它獲利馬上出去是一個方向所以你認為外資的進出台股的市場對於匯率的影響是一部分的不是全部的那央行要持續的穩匯這是我們的目標好 謝謝來往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6799.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6814.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那它穩定幣大家都問穩定幣的貨幣戰那麼美國它是由不具官方不發行官方的穩定幣但是歐盟的看法不同它為了擔心它的清算體系 資本流動還有跨境結算全面的美元化所以呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6815.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6836.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
歐盟是很積極那麼美國目前是兩大穩定幣商壟斷市場但是歐盟的做法我們台灣有一個數位性台幣CPTC那麼目前CPTC目前央行的規劃用的比較通俗是B2B沒有用在一般的民間那未來會不會繼續擴大跟歐盟的做法一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6837.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6842.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
其實這個部分我們現在CVDC是在一個試驗的階段在研擬至於未來應該怎麼樣其實有各種可能性會不會擴大 謝局長我聽你講過問一下謝局長好了它有兩層所以主要它應該是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6858.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6863.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
央行的CPTC上層基本上它是跟金融機構之間的支付清算我們現在談的穩定幣這個部分是一般大眾這是很不一樣所以會不會CPTC擴大到一般當作是一種穩定幣謝局長我之前聽過你的一個介紹謝局長你解釋一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6881.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6899.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
我想就是分兩個叫做Retail的給大眾使用的一個是給Wholesale給做清算使用的目前因為我想我們目前不急迫去發行Retail的CBDC主要是因為現在的支付工具相當的多元也便利所以沒有急迫性所以目前比較急迫是在Wholesale做一個清算 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6900.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6917.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
我馬上問下一題 既然你這樣講已經進入了我們穩定幣的監理它有準備資產對不對高價值 高品質或高流動性像短期貸券或票券如果不是法幣樣態的是不是會用不是法幣樣態的來做穩定幣的準備資產美債 RWA會這樣嗎會不會把這些不是法幣樣態的來做為穩定幣的資產 準備資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6926.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6953.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
目前我們在那個法的規定主要是在給高流動性高安全的這個金融資產美債算不算美債可以啊RWA也可以如果是屬於符合合格的這種有監理的 有監管的這種金融資產很好 講到了來 現在我們要問有監管的來 監管會同事會來 知不知道這個事件加密通貨史上最大規模的清算事件因為川普宣布了對中國加徵百分之百結果加密通貨就11天 哇 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6954.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6980.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
因為基本上它是用非資產來做儲備的這個合成穩定幣它可以買進虛擬資產但是又賣出等值的期貨然後有Delta中性對沖後面的運作我們來看一下就是這樣的循環它已經不是用實體資產了它去抵押之後又拿到穩定幣又繼續買這樣合成資產這樣一直循迴循迴循迴它可以把它受益率推高到4成5成這樣的合成穩定幣的循環貸有什麼風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6982.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7001.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
我想我們在這次的我們的草案裡面就不包括這一塊了不包括這一塊不包括合成穩定幣 對是 好 那這樣我們就往下看了好 那麼剛剛我們提到對不起 往上看 對就是合成穩定幣它貶值會造成死亡螺旋這是不是也是因為這樣的關係所以我們今晚會不打算開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7002.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7017.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
當時我們在考慮的時候本來這個四大類的穩定幣的型態我們就選擇以法幣做連結以法幣 對但是剛剛央行說了這個美債這個我們的這個RWA他也可以考慮他是準備資產 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7018.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7035.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
那是準備資產就是背後比如說我發一個台幣穩定利率我背後的準備資產可以用什麼像USDT USDC它也不是用美金它是可能用他們短期的美債或是其他的工具就是流動性要高 安全性要好所以這個剛剛央行的問題就是這樣未來 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7037.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7065.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
是否開放合成穩定幣或以Delta中性對沖的虛擬資產您剛剛已經答了如果按照我們的草案通過應該是沒有這個那會不會開放虛擬資產的抵押或循環抵押也就不存在了就是我剛才提到假設未來因為虛擬資產說未來有新的業態的部分我們剛才講我們在專法也保留了一個立法上的可能性有其他金主管居然同意的虛擬資產業務所以未來如果會開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7066.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7087.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
會不會有什麼具體規範那當然每一個新的開放我們都會仔細的思考它所有的應該怎麼規範會非常謹慎來做這件事情那這裡面就剛講到的RWA技術驗證以具可行性那麼因為你們提到了說金環會已經有一個實驗小組也顯示了具有可行性那麼如果有三個領域一個要趕快有調適法規要有交易平台要跟國際連結 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7089.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7118.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那未來如果開放會不會建立第三方的驗證機制來向購買者驗證資產價值我想RWA它比較特別一點其實剛剛有提到有人說其實穩定幣也是某種RWA但是就是說我們現在在那個專法草案裡面我們在定義裡面其實是把RWA排除在外的因為我們是把它另外的當作是因為它是連結到有價證券我們現在還是因為另外一個有價證券的方式在處理所以RWA的部分不會在這裡面除了穩定幣以外 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7120.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7128.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
RWE它是一個有實體世界資產的一個對 它就是一個孿生或是數位原生它的實體因為剛剛吳秉隆也問到了它的實體世界的資產價值重不重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7134.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7152.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
就是RWA它本質上它就是兩個是連動的就是它的分身就是我有一個股票它主要的目的是希望交易更有效率不受時間空間的限制但是這個穩定幣不一樣它倆是有點分離這個還是有點差別只是說它性質是很類似都有一個抵押資產在做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7153.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7169.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
做一個back up這樣好 謝謝最後我們來看一下那麼立法院的法治局提出了虛擬資產的稅務規範因為既然是資產它會有交易也會未來有面臨到課稅的問題這個部分今晚會不會跟財政部提出說這個部分財政部是不是要來關心一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7170.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7187.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
這當然我想財政部據我所知他們應該也在做這個研究因為這個沖繩稅的部分我們不會在專法裡面釐定那財政部應該會根據他的性質跟他交易的屬性來釐清該課什麼樣的一個稅賦的制度好 謝謝主委 葉主席暫且我們到這謝謝謝謝中委員接下來我們請顏寬恆委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7201.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7208.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
主席各位烈士官員大家早主席有請金管會彭主委我們請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7210.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7234.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
委員好主委好主委玉山金並山山壽這個併購案金款會應該要明確的來審核確保國內金融市場的穩定同時也保障全體投資人的權益這個你認同嗎當然這是我們法律上規定的這個在不管金控法保險法都有這個明確的規定對 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7236.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7260.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
但是玉山金並三商售這個市場矚目那實際影響股價的一個重大事件針對市場盛傳說玉山金沒通過董事會的授權就盡致的去談一個讓股價下崩7%這樣子的一個價格金管會說這是商業行為要等到收件後才去了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7261.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7284.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
確實跟委員剛才其實也有多位委員關心這個問題我剛才已經說明過他們在議價協商的過程當中其實像金管會最後是因為等到他們完成他的法律程序送件以後才能確定他的內容至於說他們市場上有關重訊該不該發 怎麼發這件事情我們已經折成交易所那是交易所跟他之間那金管會你容許這樣子的公司的治理行為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7285.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7297.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
公司治理他們都知道我們也對外說明了他們這些東西他們都有自己專業的判斷如果他真的不符規定該怎麼辦就怎麼辦我想我們在前天的記者會我們的同仁也跟對外說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7298.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7316.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
好 那我再請教現在最熱門的虛擬貨幣就是穩定幣這個不僅是美國現在各國都搶著要發行穩定幣主要就是要穩定國內貨幣主權台灣也不例外部分經濟學者對穩定幣的風險提出警告 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7318.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7333.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
2014年諾貝爾經濟學得主June Trow他撰文指出說穩定幣可能在金融壓力下會出現擠兌風險那它的安全性不應該被高估他並且批評美國對於儲備兌付與風險控管條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7339.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7366.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
不明確讓發行機構且這個發行機構缺乏銀行等級的一個資本跟流動性的要求所以恐怕會成為影子銀行體系的一環那今認為說支付系統應該由公共基礎設施主導穩定幣或許是金融創新的代表但他們可能會讓少數人致富卻讓整個金融體系承擔風險請問主委你對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7367.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7369.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
學者的這一段說話你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7370.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7399.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
對於一個新興的這些的業務或是這樣的發展一定有很多不同的觀點我想這也是為什麼就是說最近很多的因為這個存在不是今天才存在但是為什麼各國政府在這時候要透過立法來做這件事情因為剛剛提到過去是潮盲發展的過程當中確實有像剛剛委員提到開始有一家銀行因為他儲備都在那邊發生擠兌的時候他這個就影響到他的那個所謂資產儲備的安全性那因為過去沒有監管所以大家也看到這個概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7399.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7420.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
市場使用的人已經這麼普遍的時候主管決定就應該站出來把這件事情把它規範化我想這也是解決這位他提的論點就是說風險一直存在但是我們要怎麼解決它對 所以主委這是一個很新的東西其實大多數人根本就不了解是的不了解 所以說這些金融體系可能面臨的風險之外同樣我更擔心的就是詐騙的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7422.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7441.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
因為台灣已經變成詐騙天堂了對不對我們現在很多人都不敢接這個電話響起只要沒有顯示說是我的朋友或者是認識的人的話根本電話都不敢接那這種情況勢必會如果說穩定幣一推出那一定會有更多的詐團會藉由民眾不了解的這一段時間然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7443.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7461.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
來誘導他們進行這樣的投資就是假投資真詐騙那穩定幣極有可能會淪為洗錢詐騙工具之一所以未來台灣如果要發行穩定幣勢必要清楚地讓民眾知道什麼是穩定幣那它的功能是什麼還有它的使用方式是什麼這個宣導一定要做得夠清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7464.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7482.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這個部分所以主委再要請教主委你在跟央行合作的過程當中會針對穩定幣的一個準備資產管理資金流向還有返期前監管的方面提出更多的具體措施那當然 剛剛委員提到一個就是說我們對於金融教育還好這還有一段 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7483.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7494.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那個不算短的時間可以來做準備做這些比如說未來真的專法通過我們做一個金融教育市場宣導我們講這一定會來做剛才提到就是說跟央行之間針對穩定幣因為這個確實關於我們兩個單位的 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7499.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7524.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那個執掌所以這部分我們大概都有充分的協調跟合作這應該未來監管應該也不會有問題因為我們在過去很多銀行的業務本來就跟央行都是共管共治我想這個經驗大家都非常的順暢對啦其實穩定幣放在這個虛擬資產專法對不對對這部分在針對主要是不必要的風險尤其是大片的風險這是我最關心的就是我們也很關心對對對 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7525.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7540.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
在虛擬資產服務法草案的討論當中金管會如何平衡傳統金融業跟創新業者的角色並確保虛擬資產這個產業的多元發展跟競爭力可不可以請主委說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7541.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7570.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
所以我想這是一個也是一個大家要注意的問題就是說我們的銀行假設從它的歷史推演是非常非常久的歷史但是它整個過程當中它遇到非常非常多新的東西的衝擊比如說這是數位化的過程當中其實銀行也開始做轉型剛才講說其實未來假設我們的虛擬金融也出現的時候我們金融業也應該開始要去思考比如說我們最近在做個實驗就是請銀行來做虛擬資產的保管業務這是一個非常起始的動作 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7571.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7600.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我未來如果要涉入這個不管你服務客戶也好或是你自行要參與要從保管來做這是最基本的再來就是我們也注意到說比如說我們在發行穩定幣的過程當中我們也讓銀行來參與還有就是我們在做這些RWA的部分的時候我們也是希望銀行來參與這件事情所以我們也是用漸進的方式也提醒我們銀行業者未來會怎麼樣大家都不知道但是一定要及早做準備那這樣的話才能因應否則等到整個環境變了你再突然來做我覺得那個成本高風險也更大 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7601.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7623.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
是的 所以我想這個創新跟這個傳統的部分他要如何讓他有發展力然後能夠平衡能夠有一個發展的空間這金管會要更加的著力確實那個人講這個非常重要因為其實整個金融體系這麼龐大那怎樣讓他能夠順利的因應各種的變化我想我們金管會一定會努力來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7624.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7647.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那當然我們最在意就是說避免說未來市場上有持續更多持續更多的不法交易這部分就是我們要避免的那詐騙行為一定要嚴防 是好不好這次也是我們有個執法是專門針對這個對對對 好了謝謝主委 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝主委 謝謝委員接下來有請李昭偉昆城委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7656.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7660.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
謝謝主席 我們請彭主委好 又請彭主委委員好來 主委好這個三商美幫人受了招親案這個消息滿天飛剛才很多委員也很關心然後從這個10月17號的深夜開始到28號的上午11個小時內三家公司陸續發布重訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7682.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7703.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
市場也解讀說已經介入了最終的結局中信金的重訓是投標案已結束玉山金跟三商壽強調對市場傳聞不予評論請教一下主委您知道說現在有關玉山金跟三商壽的合併案的過程 您有瞭解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7704.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7726.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
我想整個過程站在一個金融主管機關我們當然是全程掌握但是因為這邊各個案我們不方便透露其中的細節所以你有全程掌握就對了那當然好 那有全程掌握我就再請教了因為現在有兩個問題其實剛剛很多委員有在問但是我認為主委或是銀行局或是政情局都沒有答得很清楚就是說第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7727.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7750.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
到底董事會有沒有授權這個溢價來投標如果說董事會有授權溢價跟投標是屬於重大轉投資的決議那依法應該要公告如果確定交易對象跟金額沒有公告就違反了重訓的規範第二個 董事會至今尚未召開 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7751.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7779.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
如果出具 據法律約書裡的文件參與投標涉及到公司治理正當性的問題這兩個 一個就是有關這個是不是屬於重大的一個訊息要發布然後另外一個是涉及到公司治理的問題請教主委 第一個它這個是不是涉及到重大的訊息必須要公布因為後來是我們金管會去催他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7780.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7807.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
他們才發布重大的訊息嗎金管會不會去催這個事情因為這是他跟交易所之間交易所對於在我這邊上市櫃的公司我要求他們再做一些資訊透明他這裡面有努力的所以是交易所去要求他們要發布訊息嗎對 所以說有 那外界有這個問題那主要是媒體報導以後我想我們也請交易所交易所也主動的去應該所以是你們請交易所交易所請他們那就差不多就是你們要要求的 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7808.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7828.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
這本來交易所就該做我們是交易所的主管機關當然會請他去做而且我們也跟你講這個結果要請交易所對外說明所以這個是不是要屬於要發布的重大訊息那他們沒有發布這個是不是重大訊息是由他們來判斷還是由交易所跟他們之間來說認定比如說那主委認不認為這個是重大的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7831.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7836.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
我覺得我應該要這個情況的話我在這邊不方便去講不是 我們按照規定就按照這個相關的規定來看這個是不是很重大的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7842.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7862.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
不過這個部分我剛才講說這個確實我這邊沒有辦法站在經管會立場去說明因為這個事實的情況非常複雜你也是監理機關第一個我也沒有參與他們的協商我也沒有參與這個內容還有整個過程就是在我們想法裡面就很簡單這個合併案前面這個它是不是屬於51種上市公司必須公告的事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7863.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7887.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我想它裡面有一項說會有影響什麼什麼的這個對啊 對上市公司股東權益或證券價格有重大影響對不對這個牽涉到當時的判斷我想有關重券的發布那主委也應該是認為說是有影響才會叫證那個證交所再去因為輿論已經有媒體報導這邊市場這樣我們當然機器主管就說你是交易所是主政單位你當然要去處理對 這當然是啊 這個我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7890.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7912.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
我剛才幾位委員我也說過開記者會的時候政企局的副局長有說過這東西有爭議性證交所就會去查證那目前有查證嗎有啊那查證的結果是什麼沒有 我剛才講說交易所查證完他會對外說明那到現在三天的時間了那就我們會再請交易所進行查證所以這個要查多久啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7914.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7941.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
這個我就會請交易所盡快去做證件這個我說已經三天了那作為金管會你是監理機關你認為說是幾天查出來是合乎規定的沒有 我想交易所在處理這已經非常非常有經驗因為這個對 就像你講的其實規定都很清楚該不該發布重大訊息這其實都有規範那三天時間你們查不出來不是我們查 是交易所我們會那政經局局長有去查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7946.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7974.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
對 一樣我們剛才已經 剛才講而且交易所應該是有請他們不是 我要請張局長答一下有去查嗎這個這一段在查核中的事情在查核中 哪時候會有結果等到事實的時間看到結果才能夠判斷什麼結果才能夠判斷我當然知道我的意思是說你們要多久的時間依照一般程序我們就會進行處理一般程序大概是幾天 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7976.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7996.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
應該在一週內吧我再問一下主委 這個到底因為外界形容說這個是摸黑交易那個標題是媒體下的你是監理機關 你要做個說明那到底這個有沒有經過這個Binding offer有沒有經過董事會的授權 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7998.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8021.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我想在整個交易的過程當中有各種不同的授權的型態他們如果說這些他們是一個上市會公司他應該按照規定該怎麼對外說明就按照這個來說明不是 因為剛剛主委一直強調說這個公司都會這個有公司治理的相關規定他們都知道如果大家都知道也有遵守的話其實這個金管會也不用那麼辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8021.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8041.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
金管會的存在就是說對於公司治理有問題的地方你們要提出監管我們不會在一個事情我們完全沒有釐清的情況就在這邊先下結論所以剛剛講過我們是尊重它的體制因為這個重訓的發布是剛剛有不是做重訓的發布現在重訓發布是另外一個另外一個就是說那到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8042.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8067.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
這個董事會提出了這一個Binding offer有沒有經過這個董事會的決議或同意是這件事情因為涉及到公司治理的問題他們在協商的過程當中不需要跟主管機關說明這些事情我想說他們未來如果正式要送件他要仔細的說明他整個程序是符合的這時候他們就要自己要去所以他們送過來的時候你們就會去檢查說 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8069.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8085.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
當初的這段過程到底有沒有經過董事會的決議就對了它所有的文件裡面應該要符合我們的規定假設比如說按照媒體的那個說明它是會按照金空法第26條裡面該送的文件所有的這些過去都非常那如果啦如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8087.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8103.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
這個玉山金他們沒有舉行董事會但是相關的人員他提交具備法律約束力的這個交易價格跟換股比例的話你要這樣子這個最後也收購了那把這些資料送到金管會那這樣子有符合相關的規定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8103.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8119.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
金管會的要求就是根據金控法假設是根據26條他必須董事會做成決議經過他們的股東大會決議雙方做成股份轉換契約書檢送相關的這些書件送金管會審查那所以如果沒有經過董事會決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8120.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8143.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
對 它是必要的程序這個法條寫得非常清楚所以如果沒有開過董事會然後自行提交這些具有法律約束力的這個交易的價格那是像金管會送件的要求他們前面是他的協商程序對我意思就是說如果沒有經過董事會決議的話那這個程序有符合你們的標準嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8143.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8165.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
沒有 我剛才講說前面的部分是他們協商他最後送過來的時候他必須明確的完成公司治理的程序還有我們法規的要求的程序那所以有媒體形容這一段沒有經過董事會決議是摸黑交易那主委怎麼評論沒有 這應該是他們自己去澄清這是他們自己因為實際上這個這也不是要他們自己去澄清你作為監理機關你也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8165.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8189.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
你有這個資格去要求我們沒有立場幫他代達這個問題你不是代達這個問題我要求的是一個市場秩序公司管理的問題沒有 如果他以後他的這些的不完備他當然不能送件而且送件我們也會提出質疑好 今天的書面報告包含內政部警政署主委有看過嗎有 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8190.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8217.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
有 有看過 如果有看過我看了警政署 刑事檢察局他提到很多的困境這些困境 有六點困境第一個就是說金管會公佈已經不得提供虛擬資產服務的原來的沒有合格的這些洗錢防治法的這些業者他們後續的相關的資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8218.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8237.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
也沒有規範要保存恐怕成為偵辦的斷點然後金管也要求VASP要定期通報使用的錢包地址但是不肖業者沒有如實申報然後警察機關也沒有VASP所屬錢包的地址的資料追求不法金流不知道向哪一家業者調閱資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8238.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8266.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
然後這些如果是來自於境外高風險交易所這個業者也恐涉及申報虛假的資料然後沒有開立發票沒有按照實際的交易金額開立發票實際難以比對然後還有如果是大額交易通報的調閱只有匯款人的身分沒有以VASP公司為名的條件來調閱他們遇到這些困境主委要怎麼去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8266.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8295.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
沒有 我想這個警政署應該是善意的提醒善意的提醒因為我看他寫遭遇的困境我想說利用這個機會讓你回答一下能不能解決這個第一線的偵辦人員的困境仔細看一下我們條文草案裡面其實這些比如說第一項的資料保存我明明已經寫得非常清楚要保存5年而且如果說涉犯這個糾紛要持續的保存我想這個都沒有問題對 還有像比如說剛剛那個發票的部分那是財政部的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8295.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8309.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
他要去做 他要去向大和申報那應該跟法務部調查局去做我想這些部分 我覺得所以他遭遇了這六項困境都有辦法處理嗎可以處理 這些其實我們規範裡面都有麻煩你給我一個書面資料好了好不好沒問題 這個其實規範裡面都有因為他們在現場 你沒有時間讓他們講 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8315.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8333.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
如果他們講 因為他們在第一線遭遇到這些問題我想他們是善意的提醒其實這裡面都有因為我們在開會都有邀請各個單位一起所以是他們沒有進入情況嗎不是 他是善意的提醒希望說未來能夠強化這些東西你把書面資料給我其實未來規範其實都有好 沒關係 先把這個書面資料給我好 謝謝主委謝謝委員好 謝謝主委 謝謝張偉霖接下來有請黃委員33直選 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8348.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8350.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
好 謝謝主席 我請彭主委請彭主委委員好是 主委早早我想大家都非常關心的虛擬資產那接下來你們要送你們的專法過來那現在申請來做所謂的虛擬資產服務商的相關的登記那也經過你們公告目前是原來的20幾家現在只有9家通過 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8374.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8400.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
原來20幾家剩8家那其中有一家是新申請的OK 所以是8家那25家只剩8家原因是什麼原因很多我想在過去這段時間來看各位看到有些是涉犯一些不法行為有些是因為我們的標準提高它無法符合所以一家新的不是原來的然後來申請那它是境外的還是國內的都是境內 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8401.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8416.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
那我們也查過相關的虛擬資產交易的事實國人大概70%是使用境外的業者所以境外的業者到現在沒有來做相關的申請登記您覺得是什麼原因 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8417.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8438.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我想剛才也有委員提到就是台灣的滲透度相對是低這些低滲透度的人大部分現在因為我們過去沒有這樣的一個立法所以他必須透過一個境外的交易這也是為什麼說假設我們這個產業未來要發展我們要專法因為大部分的人我們需要他們未來是透過一個文化館的管道你覺得境外的人為什麼不來登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8440.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8465.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
我想境外當然是第一個因為他們之前都來登記過一兩年都沒有下文 這才是問題主委您來的時候這個問題我也質詢過很多次重點是你今天要舉辦一個考試考試規則要明確內容要清楚 審查標準要有一致也就是說我來考試我知道我考了幾分會及格我就會來考試 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8467.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8472.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
但是我連來考試我不知道我怎麼考怎麼努力可能都不會及格那我來考試幹嘛我現在的問題是您現在的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8477.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8501.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
八家通過好那二十幾家很多有問題沒有通過那目前為止這些標準都很清楚的公告了嗎當然很清楚我們的登記辦法裡面一項一項我只看到一大堆要的文件但是好像沒有說你這一個文件缺了你就怎麼樣然後或者是說資本市足率要多少實售資本要多少最低標準有公告嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8501.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8525.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我們實收資本是在專法裡面才會訂定所以專法還沒有登記制還是以洗房為基礎那接下來專法才是以機構管理強化專法裡面就會說清楚了所以現在等於說你們也不希望人家現在就來登記不是就是說我們不同階段你聽懂我的意思嗎如果我們有為什麼不一次說清楚已經有人在登記了你又要等專法那是怎樣呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8527.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8551.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
主委我的意思是如果你要考試有人在登記然後你又告訴我說要等到專法才能夠寫出來那你現在登記什麼規不是 我們現在登記制也很清楚他可以來申請也都沒有問題對不對但不知道會不會過因為沒有標準審查的東西不是一個就是一個類似一個自動化進去就會出來我的意思是說如果要登記就把他登記的規則說清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8553.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8579.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我們不希望看到的是金管會不希望人家來登記不會 不會 規則很清楚否則不會有人來申請這是第一 我希望如果我們的規則是公平跟清楚的我希望全部的正當合法的業者都會希望來台灣做登記剛剛講得很好 那個正當合法是 我同意我們希望正當合法的對 現在是個透明化的政府沒有辦法就是說我們最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8580.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8600.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我們有什麼意見我只有說規則公佈清楚不要像上次一樣進來登記的送了半天的件然後不知道為什麼沒有通過這才是大家會疑慮的第二個我們希望業者來登記申請的當事人應該都很清楚知道啦我想這不會說願意來被你管的盡量能夠被你管最好啦對我們來說因為這樣的國人他才找得到對象他想要被管就請他好好的來登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8606.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8623.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
只要符合相關的條件我覺得我們的態度應該是你就是來給我管沒有錯 我們想要不要讓他再境外然後賺我們台灣人這麼多錢可是我們管不到他這才奇怪但是你就要符合我們的要求同意 所以標準清楚一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8624.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8643.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
第二個部分是70%的境外業者占了台灣所有大概虛擬資產的我希望這個專法也希望能夠把他們納到台灣讓我們來好好的監管這才是接下去我們應該要做的目的而且我們的專法裡面已經講好你是境外的Vespa就可以來申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8644.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8667.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
是 我們是希望它來適用這個法規而不是用法規把它排在外面不會啦我想說只要符合我們規定我們其實沒有再區分這個接下來是只要它經過營運的話它將來就是定義說目前是虛擬資產是用於支付或投資的目的所以目前這營運方式其實是有點類似銀行的狀況嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8669.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8683.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
應該講說它不是金融機構但是我們會類似用金融機構的模式來監管因為它將來草案裡面你也開放借貸也開放移轉這些相關保管這些業務其實有借貸的話就是類同銀行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8684.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8698.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
確實委員講的沒有錯假設借貸商的部分接下來我們就看他的業務範圍到他比如說槓桿或是他今天比如說今天做多少的如果他有到借貸他可能就必須對消費者有一定的責任這也是為什麼這個開始就要有資本氏族的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8699.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8723.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
是 所以我就說這個標準趕快訂出來對 我們執法已經在訂定中對業者來說他也要做好準備第二個對民眾來說他也知道說這家業者我去買有保障今天的問題是保障我們希望能夠登記就是希望你是一個好的業者你的相關的規定都符合規定然後我們的消費者有保障同意這是同一批的同一個邏輯 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8724.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8754.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
所以接下來就是如果他是已經到收受虛擬資產存款然後又銷售虛擬資產又用虛擬資產來受信來借貸那其實他的管理就很重要萬一萬一萬一有像一些業者如果他自己發生了所謂的財務危機或者是他運作有問題那現在這個專法還沒有通過的專法裡面有怎麼樣去保障之後消費者 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8754.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8771.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
對 我想這裡面剛才提到就是說我們在會分級管理不同的業態我們上面有七種業態會根據不同的業態保管的 借貸的 譬如說保管商的風險跟譬如說借貸商的風險是截然不同的對 這些都要把它定清楚所以我之前有講過嘛譬如說像我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8774.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8798.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
美國總統川普把比特幣變成國家的戰備儲備也就是說他其實就是在因應將來可能發生問題的時候還有一個什麼東西可以來抵抗那一樣的我認為啦這些業者他們現在如果真的狀況你現在的專法看起來只是叫他們自己要做好相關的信託也好或者是自己做好相關的準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8798.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8816.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
有沒有要求他們做其他的方式就像我們對現在很多電我們當初開放電資電資是有基金的對 我們有信託所以我們就這樣未來也會比照這樣的方式來辦你覺得信託就夠了沒有 我們會根據不同那是一個概念信託目前是法幣信託還是虛幣信託 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8818.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8834.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
沒有 只有法幣打就是它的法幣先因為它主要是跟客戶的資產因為只有法幣打我們現在也沒有虛幣可以信託的狀況我的意思是說我認為類似存保的機制可能現在就要開始考慮了委員提醒很多次了這有關當一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8836.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8844.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
不會只有他放個信託就會沒事對 機構就會有個退場的問題所以我們的退場機制也是而且將來虛幣的價值可能跟法幣會有很大的落差也就是說他就算去信託了足夠的法幣可是到虛幣那個價值可能已經差了十萬八千里了這種情況下怎麼樣去確保消費者的權益我認為在這個新的專法裡面可能主委要把 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8862.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8881.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
既然它可能有類同銀行的業務那我們就類同銀行的管理的思考但是又可能要維持它一定的所謂的自由度我同意要做一些相關的特別的處理但是一樣要考慮的是消費者將來能夠求償 能夠找得到人 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8881.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8906.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那當然因為如果是由金管會納管的話我想大家誠如剛剛委員講說大家還是希望由金管會來管理大家比較有信心所以我希望金管會就是認真的管理因為之前的政企局也是蠻辛苦的因為這個東西沒人見過所以壓在他們這邊的確也是一份很大的負擔既然要接手了我們就希望所有願意在台灣登記落地納管的業者 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8907.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8922.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
希望他來遵循台灣的法令希望他能夠進來登記的時候我們的遊戲規則是一清二楚的第二個我們不希望說他們還是繼續的在境外然後用跳過各種的方法否則我們就是有本事我們就把他們封鎖不要讓他們連到台灣的網路 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8924.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8952.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
不然他只要存在台灣人就去買然後永遠就變成是像原來一樣沒管的狀況既然我們要管他願意來登記我們的規則清楚然後希望所有的人都在台灣落地這樣才能真正保障台灣的消費者也真正能夠確保這個市場是正常運作否則就像剛剛昆城委員說的刑事警察去找他們都找不到這種狀況如果你今天沒有納管會更嚴重啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8953.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8979.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那管的都可能有問題了不納管的更找不到人規則清楚是我們應該做的我的意思是我們的法規清楚明確讓業者都能進來如果你不進來我們有我們的處罰或相關的程序我們會讓你們在台灣做不了生意你才有辦法好好管謝謝委員的建議謝謝謝謝黃珊珊委員接下來我們請王世堅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8995.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8998.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
謝謝主席 我請金管委彭主委好 我們請彭主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9001.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9026.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
委員好這個去年你一上任那時候你就確認了說我們金管會會來訂定我們台灣首部的虛擬資產業管理法這非常的好而且你們確實也做了那也在今年的6月27號就把這個案子那就送到行政院去審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9027.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9054.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
這個案子的內容當然就專法這個內容包括消費者的保護包括市場交易的行為規範包括他們這個資產保管包括消費者的保護這些都非常的好業者的許可條件這些都是專法裡面所訂定這非常好可是從送進去到現在將近四個月了 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9056.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9081.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
那個主委你們有沒有跟行政院就是溝通一下有是什麼原因現在進度到底為何有碰到什麼困難嗎其實剛剛提到就是我們在其實我們送進去行政院很快就開會開會因為這會試射很多的單位他就提了很多很多的問題叫我們回去再來研商我們再把這個內容又修改提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9082.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9099.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
又開了一次會大家就是其實我們都緊鑼密鼓的在進行這個討論有在緊鑼密鼓畢竟是新的東西有跟他們盯這個案子的審查有跟他們盯著就對了那你那個大概會在什麼時候你覺得行政院會合可 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9100.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9119.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個部分如果說就我個人的觀察因為同仁跟我回報就是說現在大家一些有比較重大的爭議的地方其實不多都是未來執行上大家細節因為這部法律重點會在未來執法怎麼去做一個比較詳細嚴密的制定當然制定的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9121.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9136.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
為什麼我們現在要先求有為什麼比方說在這一段時間裡面我們金管有先推VSP法尊聲明有也確實有做登記那也26家業者來登記可是現在26家業者已經有18家 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9142.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9159.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
已經被我們認為就把它除名掉不行 它不合格這裡面有三家是嚴重的洗錢詐騙你看像有一家像去年4月這個王牌數位的負責人光他一件就3億4千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9162.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9187.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那去年底還有這個必享科技這個詐騙33億之多啦33億之多總共這三件加起來加起來六七十億有六七十億這麼大的金額那所以你們就剔除了這18家所以我認為既然專法要加強內控 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9189.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9207.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
那加強內控就是說要查核開戶的目的查核開戶人的身份虛擬幣的流向的追蹤等等在這一個部分我們的專法裡面有沒有特別針對這個KYC的部分去做加強監管 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9209.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9227.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我剛才有報告我們的執法我們有特別針對一個內控內積的做一個專門執法我想在金融界人都知道我們金融機構的內控內積是一個非常重要而且非常綿密的一個管理的模式我想我們會這部分一定會像委員講我們會來強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9229.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9256.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
還有就剛才講說比如說我們針對那個疑似不法交易詐騙我們會另外一個執法來專門來做這個規範這個虛擬的我們當然該查該管但是實質的存在我們銀行的款項你看像到現在為止我們國人存在國內銀行有超過60兆台幣那麼這些錢裡面我上回就提過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9257.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9264.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我提過就是說針對中央銀行他有頒布一筆針對不動產的部分他認為不動產我們銀行的錢 大眾的資金不應該幫建商 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9273.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9293.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
去炒作土地所以訂啦也就是說你貸款去建商要貸款可以要興建的這OK但是這個貸款過去的金額不能超過18個月都沒有動超過一年半沒有開工那表示說這建商根本買這個土地 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9294.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9318.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
是去炒地皮的不是這樣嗎那結果我那時候發現說這裡面金額最大的土地銀行最多土地銀行竟然不動產貸款裡面在前年底總共他貸了一兆4805億出去那到去年3月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9320.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9340.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
18個月沒有動工的從前年的1173億那當時你有要求他們改善那改善的結果他還剩下802億這麼多並沒有實質去要求推動就等於幫助當了草地皮的幫兇 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9342.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9368.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
等於建商要去炒房價現在房價這麼高漲土地銀行這麼專業的土地銀行竟然做了幫兇同樣的當時的台銀18個月沒有動工的有142億但是人家同樣的15個月以後到去年3月底到今年3月底人家只剩38億 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9370.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9389.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
等於台銀在你要求了以後他大幅度的去做了改善他要回了7成只剩3成還在繼續追蹤土地銀行剛好相反1173億他只去處理了3成還有高達7成800億 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9397.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9405.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
還在幫建商我搞不懂耶土英這些傢伙在幹什麼他還是土地專業的銀行耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9407.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9429.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
所以我搞不懂這兩家同樣百分之百關股同樣百分之百要受我們金管會不打緊還有財政部這麼嚴密的監管之下結果上有命令他下有對策還繼續在跟這些二職的建商勾結 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9431.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9443.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
不可思議耶所以彭主委這一點你是不是要回去趕快交辦多久時間內要土地男給個交代我會回去跟財政部跟央行趕快來言商 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9446.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9472.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
再跟委員報告一下因為你跟莊部長財政部莊部長你們也常會碰面那九大公營行庫裡面這九大的董事長總經理都莊部長派的你可以請莊部長協助查一查土地銀行到底在幹什麼這麼明目張膽我們立法委員在立法院公開質詢他 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9476.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9505.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
它稳稳不动这个是不是要积极办理 好不好那另外我们国内我们37家银行手续费从过去2461亿那增加到3156亿他们的获利增加这个是很好我们不嫉妒这些银行他们做该做的事应有的收入这是应当但是这么高的手续费的增加这代表了一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9506.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9535.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
就是說不但招攬的風險增加了他去不當招攬很多買賣這種相關的金融商產品所謂的理財讓存款戶去買了這些理財的產品風險就增加所以我認為我們對這一個部分要加強稽查因為在我看到的比方說 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9539.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9540.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
這個這一部分的控管裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9542.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9557.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
你們說爭議有減少了從前年的1390件佔國內銀行爭議案件的38%有降到16.3%這一點我是肯定你們金管會確實有做事有針對這個在監管但是這個減少會不會還有一種情況是他們的話術變更高明了更會變 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9570.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9596.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
理財專員憑他三寸不爛之舌把存款戶辛苦血汗錢就這樣又騙過去了騙到一些風險很高的金融產品上面所以這一個部分因為有實際的案例出現實際的案例光是和庫銀行過去我們都知道我們都認為和庫銀行是規規矩矩最老實的銀行之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9597.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9616.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
他本來乖乖取取老老實實的再次在金融圈這個大展崗裡面學壞了你們光是你們光是今年你看就抓到他兩屆才發了他八十萬才發的理由他這個幫客戶幫銀行辦理理財講座業務不實 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9623.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9648.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
還有什麼對保險公司照會涉及異常招標案件沒有建立異常招攬太陽管理機制你看這麼明顯有的案子還是竟然他們說有去辦招攬說明會但是招攬說明會原來是假的 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9651.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9673.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
只有留下檔案 會議紀錄根本完全沒有所以我們很多存款人那很多金融消費者在這一個部分他們是無辜的嘛因為我們全民存款人365行不一定每個人對理財這個有專業所以都會信任銀行金融機構這些理財專員 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9675.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9689.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
結果如果這些理財專員自己不懂不打緊存著壞心眼堅守治道的結果就害慘了我們國內所有的金融消費者我們可憐的 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9690.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9704.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
存款的人所以這一個部分我認為要加強監管好不好再老實如何做金庫子都會學壞所以這一點我們要謹記在心好不好好 謝謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝王委員接下來我們請葛禄君委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9726.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9733.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
謝謝主席有請監管會彭主委以及央行朱副總裁謝謝我們請彭主委朱副總裁委員好謝謝主委還有央行我想在此先感謝這邊都對台幣穩定幣表達開放 支持 審慎友好尤其彭主委勇於認識對於這樣的一個新科技跟新的產業審慎友好我們要再次感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9755.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9784.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
今天想要問一下目前我們鄰近的幾個國家日本 新加坡 韓國都有自身的穩定幣或即將推出JPYC更是在10月27號可以說是正式推出他們有瞄準目標三年內流通市值要達10兆日元大概650億美元想請教一下主委對於我們台幣穩定幣有沒有一個具體的目標預計多少年內要到達多少市值有沒有一個相關的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9785.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9806.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
跟我們報告因為其實我想在從國際貨幣的市佔率來看的話我覺得我們在台幣穩定幣我們確實必須非常務實的說我們確實在國際的貨幣上面跟美元跟日元或是跟其他的歐元還是有段距離所以我們在這部分我們現在在規劃還是在建制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9807.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9820.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我們現在沒有針對這個做一個未來的預想好 謝謝主委不過我想接下來還是希望政府要確立一定的目標目標可以不要太高遠但是可以務實這樣才能夠讓我們相關的執法有夠連動 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9824.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9852.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
然後呢在目標明確的情況之下我們才能夠設計更多的配套我覺得是可以大膽的來設立目標那另外呢也想請教一下因為現在這個行政院一直還沒有把草案的版本送進來有一些說法呢說這個央行是不是有一些顧慮但是呢我們之前又問了央行總裁他說我們就跟這個彭主委都有很好的互動不過我還是要在這裡給央行一個機會啦就是我們理解其實穩定幣 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9854.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9880.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
有可能一旦打通了這個台幣穩定幣跟美元穩定幣的流通很可能會影響到這個外匯的量體那台灣我們算是一個外匯管制的一個狀態我想是不是給央行一個機會你們有沒有什麼樣的顧慮有沒有什麼concern可不可以提出來因為其實業界現在很擔心你如果說你有擔憂所以想要晚一點大家也就接受你如果覺得沒有擔憂那我們就快一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9881.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9899.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
其實在這個薛丁格的狀態是大家最擔心的因為有些產業會提前投入結果到最後門又沒有開這其實會造成產業資源的浪費央行這邊副總裁能不能稍微提一下有沒有顧慮哪些顧慮也許就提出來嘛我們也許就了解一下讓產業可以找一點因應這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9902.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9910.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
其實我們跟金管會是密切合作都支持這樣的穩定幣的推動但即使沒有穩定幣央行目前就跨境移動這個部分我們有一些要申報資料照外匯管理這個做所以將來如果的確有比如說類似美元穩定幣這個部分我們還是會依照現在的規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9932.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9953.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我們局長大概還有一些補充意見我想我們在跟金管溝通過程都很順暢所以我們的意見都有提供給他們的我想主要是因為除了所謂的央行的業務之外還有洗錢房子還有這些詐騙的案子這些我覺得後續都是在行政委裡面做討論的所以可能有一段時間需要做這樣的一個溝通好 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9954.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9968.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我想這個更多的訊息早一點多一點的跟我們的業界來溝通不要有這種隱含的顧慮我想這樣也不好其實大家都會願意來配合央行跟金管會這邊那我想外匯的部分我也表達一下從技術的角度來看其實這個所謂的貨幣的交換 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9973.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9996.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
有穩定幣的形式存在反而它的帳本是更清晰更清楚更容易追溯的我認為甚至有可能對於外匯的適度管制上面不見得比較差反而比較好這一點跟各位交換一下意見那也希望我們能夠用創新的思維來擁抱這些新的科技跟技術那另外還有一點就是這個我們這個外匯剛剛已經提過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9998.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10017.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
另外一個是我們關於穩定幣的發行其實有提到在境外發行的穩定幣要取得主管機關的同意其實我們有看到日本也是用類似的做法可是我們也思考到像日本的人口1.24億其實台灣的市場也相對的小 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10019.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10048.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
那你說到時候國外已經流通的USDT USDC是不是又要請他們的發行商又要是不是來落地又要來驗資然後又要主管機關許可這個過程可能會很繁複別人也不一定第一時間把台灣當作第一優先的市場到時候又變成這些東西還沒有許可大家都還在流通人人違法很可能還會出現假USDT假USDC這個部分主委有沒有什麼樣的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10048.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10073 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
是不是能夠有一些更加彈性的機制在執法裡面來設立謝謝謝謝委員剛剛提到那個法條母法的那個條文裡面確實提到因為我們發行穩定幣也是一個監理主權的象徵所以我們今天既然我們對國人發行要同意那當然不可能對外國人沒有做這個要求我想我們會按照考慮到務實實用的角度來思考這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10075.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10087.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
這不會是個障礙我們只要完全大家是站在一個公平一致的基礎上來做正事好 主席我最後爭取幾秒鐘的時間這個想跟央行還有主委這邊分享現在這個國家貨幣風起雲湧 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10091.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10114.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這個全球的政府都在想要持有比特幣作為一個風險的對沖那我們現在單押在單一貨幣的量體有一點太高了這很可能會導致我們在技術上變成所謂的single point of failure這個風險會太高那其實也有一些國家比特幣持有的量很少也沒有關係開始做就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10115.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10133.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那加上比特幣的來源不一定要購買有的國家也是從這個查獲不法所得他如果沒有要返還受害者的一個狀態也可以直接就變成國家的儲備之一我也希望這個央行跟金管會這邊有沒有機會未來能不能就這個議題也稍微討論一下簡單的答覆我們會遵照委員的指示會繼續去研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10145.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10151.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝子綺 謝謝主委 謝謝副總裁 謝謝謝謝各位議員接下來我們請吳宗憲委員麻煩主委我們請彭主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10174.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10178.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10184.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10205.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
好 那我現在直接開始主委我在這邊跟您說明一件事情就當人民的錢被騙走的時候人民只在乎一件事就是錢拿不拿得回來只要沒有辦法幫他拿回來錢拿回來的話那他就會覺得政府就是廢物在人民的眼中他只在乎錢拿不拿得回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10206.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10233.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我想有沒有好的管理這就是您的責任這您應該非常的清楚我想請問一下因為我去年我就有質詢相關的議題了我想軍管會從去年說要打造亞洲的資產管理中心一個最簡單的問題請問虛擬資產是不是也在管理的範圍內虛擬資產在目前沒有目前沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10235.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10255.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我去年的時候去年我去年我有跟你提到就是說台灣目前投資虛擬市場大概有八成的交易都在境外交易所這個您知道吧知道那這個部分現在在您有什麼積極作為可以請您現在告訴我嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10256.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10272.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我想這個就是我們要訂定專訪一個很重要的過程因為現在大部分因為他透過境外的時候其實我們的轄管是沒辦法對這個做任何的這樣一個比如說管理但是我跟你說我看到你們的那個草案但你們那個草案還是管不到這八成的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10274.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10292.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
對不對我想這不是只有台灣會面臨到的問題你不能這樣講我們也在努力但是我們要先解決國內的這些我們業者民眾更容易接觸到的市場你至少要讓國人知道有80%國人的投資是我幫不了你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10293.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10316.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
其实不是这样看我跟你说我不喜欢政府干一件事情政府常干一件事情就是说他常告诉国人说没问题有政府都可以值得信任结果事情发生之后又做不到那我今天很担心的一个就是说会不会我们告诉国人让国人误以为他今天去投资这些虚拟货币虚拟资产就到最后他认为被骗了以后政府也会帮他忙但是几乎都拿不回来 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10317.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10344.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
他到那一刻才發現原來我的政府沒有辦法幫我我是希望說這個在宣傳的時候你必須要告訴國人你不要讓國人誤以為你有這個能力所有投資教育 金融教育這個都是要同步來進行所以現在我看到了你們草案第一個是管不到那個國人80%投資的那個市場你管不到那再來您的草案裡面雖然有提到一些未來如果他是境外納管的話我們就會管理得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10345.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10374.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
當然啦但是問題是你有沒有辦法納管他嘛他如果來申請落地剛才像那個也有委員提到就是說境外的這些的VASP他願意在台灣來納管他當然就會受到這樣的不是那你就是被動我今天講的主軸是被動好不好他願意來我才有辦法管他他不願意來人民繼續被騙所以我們在那個第四條裡面有加上一個叫國際合作這是我們希望預留個空間因為確實這件事情是我全世界共同來面對的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10375.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10398.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
好 那沒關係啦你再推謝謝 謝謝委員的提醒那我跟你講那你就直接告訴人民直接告訴人民那80%真的不是我們能夠幫你的忙請不要投資你就只能這樣做啦你不能一方面講你要做什麼管理中心另外一方面什麼都做不到我跟你講啦你剛剛講的那個沒有錯啦他願意來納管的話但是呢現在那80%的這些境外交易所他也沒有主動向我們這邊台灣這邊來招攬或打廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10402.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10423.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
是我們這裡台灣人自己上網去搜尋去那邊從事交易的所以你們也管不了你也說如果他願意來你被動的才能夠納管嘛對不對假設我們當我們開始納管台灣已經有非常安全的交易平台他購買是相同的標的 相同的服務我想這也是導引我們現在國人走向合規化 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10425.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10448.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
就剛才講說委員所關心的問題就會被縮小但是我聽來聽去還是沒有辦法管理你要他主動來那你只能消極的被動看他要不要來除此之外你完全沒有你對他沒有辦法那你有沒有辦法凍結那80%的這些投資的境外交易所我想委員是法律專家非常清楚這個是有困難的 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10449.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10474.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
对 就是有困难所以你要告诉国人这才是重点我跟你说我这边看到的114年9月18号的那个你们会后的一些记者会的资料现在台湾虚拟交易已经到550亿美金了尤其2023 6月到2024 6月这一年的期间已经达到这么高那我们投资那个人的比例也从去年的12%上升到今年的24%也就是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10475.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10502.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
这个投资的数字一直在往上飙那我再跟你说因为时间的关系我直接跟你讲我现在还是认为这80%还是是境外之地无从管理但是你看一下我们邻近的一些对手日本韩国新加坡他们都有设专法在管理所以我现在看到的是每天我们国人被骗有3亿元但是我们什么都做不了我们对国外的一些韩巡也都石沉大海这我很清楚我以前韩巡国外也都石沉大海 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10503.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10530.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
所以這個沒有辦法落地替捐款的這個東西你還是得要讓國人知道嘛我管不了但是我要讓國人知道我真的是管不了那像日本他之前就那個2022年的那個FTX那個破產那件事你一定很清楚日本政府就有幫他們國人爭取到而且要回很多錢我們國家有沒有辦法做到當然我知道國際很困境但是這不是構成理由就回到我剛第一句話 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10532.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10547.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
人民被騙錢他只在乎政府有沒有幫他拿回錢拿了回錢你就是好政府拿不回錢他只會罵你是笨蛋罵你是廢物他不會在乎你到底問題出在哪裡好不好所以這個部分還是要麻煩你們要對這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10548.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10577.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
能夠有在台灣能夠可用可查可凍結的這加密貨幣市場秩序麻煩你們還是要建立起來這個不行的話就告訴國人我做不到不要讓國人以為政府管得了他投資了被騙那一天才知道原來政府管不了這是我在辦公室整天聽到的訊息好不好好謝謝我想保護那個消費者是我們的職責沒有什麼麻煩我們會來朝這方向來努力那就要納管啦好謝謝謝謝吳委員接下來我們請羅明才委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10582.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10604.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
主席各位委員處理的習慣 大家好主席各位請彭主委還有央行的朱美麗副總裁以及內政部陳副局長歸買中心董事長簡立忠好 請彭主委 朱副總裁然後簡董事長還有陳副局長其實這個議題聽起來是滿重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10609.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10615.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
虛擬貨幣過去本席在立法院多次質詢央行應該心有所感 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10617.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10645.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
我六七年前我就拜託楊總裁買進兩個東西一個是黃金每盎司1270塊後來央行有沒有買在六年前我建議央行你把你的外匯儲備或多或少斟酌除了人民幣之外還有另外一個選擇就是比特幣請問央行你們有沒有買回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10648.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10655.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
我們並沒有買一直都沒買那你會不會覺得因為你沒買影響到很多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10657.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10679.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
其實那個主委的建議是我來到央行之前嘛六七年前這兩年我在央行我知道央行有很多事都考慮的要安全性因為你要知道因為總裁我是很信任他的我在這裡公開的來請教總裁我說比特幣到底能不能買 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10681.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10701.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
他說那個可能是詐騙不要買那時候一枚比特幣是六千塊美金結果你知道有很多的年輕人包括本席總裁都講說那個有可能是詐騙所以因為總裁的一句話我沒買很多年輕人也通通沒買這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10704.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10726.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
一個讓年輕人或者是產業成長的一個事業結果全部煞雨而歸全部斷送了年輕人的發展很可惜啊現在我要請教一下包括主委在場各位你們現在都在說這個時代的潮流 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10727.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10755.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
台幣 記價 穩定幣虛擬貨幣的這個交易中心一定要做那我請問你們現場的所有官員手上持有虛擬貨幣持有比特幣的請舉手沒有啊你連手上都沒有持有你怎麼與時俱進你手上都沒有你怎麼樣來管理請問主委好了我現在要買一個比特幣我怎麼買 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10757.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10773.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
我想這有很多種途徑比如說我們當然是透過交易所哪一個交易所那我就不做廣告各位都台灣有幾個交易所台灣我們現在我們剛才講過就我們大概有三四個幾個大概三四個 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10773.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10803.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
沒有啦 總共六七個啦七個是有登記的本來有26個現在全部都取消掉了不是 我跟你講裡面有些不是做交易平台啦好那這裡面哪一個是OK的哪一些是不OK的目前假設我們按照我們現在台灣合法的就是9家有9家那問題都是名不見經傳啊請問一下請問一下全世界最大的虛擬貨幣交易所是哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10806.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10827.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
這個我一直好 請問你現在要開放你要做台灣的亞洲資產管理中心未來虛擬貨幣的這個市場究竟金管會要或不要我想我們在我們去年公佈的計畫裡面確實沒有包括這一部分但是我想這個產業還沒有在台灣真的形成一個這樣一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10831.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10851.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
所以我想這會隨著未來因為我們做這個資產觀念中心不是一天兩天可能要花很長的時間來做我想我們會未來根據這樣一個發展我們再來政治上再把它你是有智慧的人你很聰明的人點字王你看美國都已經在做了來那個前統市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10853.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10863.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
美國發行虛擬貨幣ETF什麼時候開始發行有沒有正式開始交易的美國總統川普對於虛擬貨幣的態度是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10868.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10893.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
報告委員 其實虛擬貨幣這邊我不是很內行大概的資訊不內行 好 請下去主委 找一個內行的上來講沒有 委員比較內行沒有 不是內行是因為所有的年輕人已經被割韭菜所有的台灣的年輕人已經喪失了很多很多的機會你知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10894.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10922.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
台大職工系一年畢業多少人因為不同領域廖老師教出來的兩三千個學生本來是在台灣可以發展這個產業給年輕人很大的機會結果你們全部說say no no no no每次都說因為詐騙 因業你就因為這個問題然後扼殺了產業的發展接下來我來問刑事警察局 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10925.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10945.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
請問你們每天這幾年在注意打炸的事情洗錢的事情請問今年國際的洗錢在台灣你們查了幾個案子目前我手頭上沒有這個統計好 沒有 謝謝我說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10946.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10961.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
講了帽子 說的範圍很大要打詐國際洗錢等等結果洗錢金額多少 查了幾件有誰可以回答央行好了所以每次聽起來都障礙非常多可是你不做 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10972.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11000.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
美國在做啊你不做日本在做韓國在做新加坡在做那乾脆通通不要做不會出事可是這不是台灣未來發展的一個重點嗎我們要跟國際接軌那我請問主委美國通過了相關的對虛擬貨幣支持的法案有幾個他現在剛才就央行的報告裡面有兩個比較重要的是剛才講的genius跟那個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11011.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11019.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
我想報告裡面寫其他國家像比如說歐盟的MICA還有像日本 香港 新加坡他們都有相關的立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11020.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11035.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
所以 主委我們今天做這個 趙委很用心我們做這個是希望說這個產業到底要不要因為你台灣現在的成長 發展你不可以置外於國際的這一塊的市場 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11036.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11061.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
其實委員剛才我們今天為什麼會有這個專題報告就是我們希望就是來促成剛才委員所期待這件事情所以我們現在我們是一個一個階段非常清楚的對 所以我們現在用心愛台灣今天的主題就是要未來這個產業很重要的基本大法請問主委就是說那台灣以台幣計價發行的穩定幣第一顆什麼時候我可以買到 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11063.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11073.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
如果說就是我剛才講過我們現在行政院如果說我們通過立法院的審查的話最快什麼時候可以買到我沒辦法預期但是大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11076.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11096.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
10年會不會買到如果假設這個會期有機會通過的話這個會期預算比較難那如果說再下個會期的話因為我們的執法大概通過以後的半年內當然不見得要半年我們希望說加快速度那因為你的亞洲的資產管理中心速度要加快 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11097.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11118.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
不然諸位 看到你來這邊我們也希望說整個金融的這一塊可以做大做強做好因為你看起來又是那麼smart我們一起努力你也很用心要趕快該做的把它做好有 我們正在做你的運氣還不錯因為你來了以後可以說是在金融方面四海生平 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11119.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11127.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
還有穩定的發展這個本席也給你祝福但是接下來請問你台股什麼時候會突破三萬點我想我也很關心這個問題我想我也回答過很多問題因為跟我有關你三萬點的時候我要請你吃雞排請大家喝珍奶 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11139.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11167.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
我已經請過兩次了一個是突破1萬點一個是突破2萬點上次你來的第一天我就期許你趕快大陸都在看那現在每天的成交量大概最多最近最高的7000億左右你覺得這個量溫不溫和是變成一種常態了嗎如果像今年的成交量跟去年來比的話還沒有去年的平均的量多今年大概比去年大概少了大概7%左右平均量 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11167.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11176.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
好 那我們就再參考就是說那為什麼新加坡人均GDP是九萬五台灣現在才三萬八怎麼樣把市場擴大 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11181.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11204.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
你覺得怎麼樣做可以讓更多的資金回來台灣就我的這個工作來看我覺得我們可以貢獻的就是希望把我們的金融產業把它做大做強那當然對整個國家的GDP還有國民這些提供更多優質的工作讓我們的年輕人留在台灣可以好好發揮不用到國外去新加坡也沒有一陣水 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11205.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11230.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
沒有好 沒有台灣以正稅欠多少20本席主張調降到10讓更多的資金回來台灣支不支持這可能要問一下財政部你不是要跟新加坡競爭嗎你不是要贏過香港嗎當然任何有利於我們金融發展或資產管理發展的話我們都是歡迎的 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11230.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11245.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
你這個多研究為什麼新加坡能 我們不能為什麼新加坡人均GDP是九萬五我們還停留在三萬八請為下一代年輕人多找找出路第二個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11246.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11266.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
本席所提保險法第146條之四什麼時候開始可以把他的上限往下調降到一半我想這個問題應該這樣講我們最近如果委員有注意到我們把對於國內的這些公建的投資我們就把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11268.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11289.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
從10%調高到15%其實某種程度就想要做這件事情跟委員講的是一樣只是委員講那個方式其實過於突然變化比較大所以說這部分我們會希望用一個實務可行又能夠達到目的的方法來做你如果5年前這個案子如果通過回來大概13兆的資金13兆回台灣買什麼 買台積電 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11292.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11310.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
買AI周邊的這些壽險公司又安全又可以帶動台灣這個企業的發展沒有 因為壽險業的投資有它強制分散的規定也沒辦法就集中在比如說那個股票或這個方面它就是有很多比較安全性的考量 對好 持續主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11311.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11334.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
外國能做的 能開放的 好的請多多學習這就是我們努力的方向讓台灣趕快成長起來也更期待在你當主委的時候股市上三萬點 這個是什麼OK吧 多努力謝謝 謝謝委員 謝謝羅委員接下來我們請王宏威委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11343.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11368.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
謝謝主席 先請金管會彭主委請彭主委主委 這個星期在市場熱議的一件事情就是玉山晶併購了三商人壽這裡面就是有關於它的重信發布其中中信晶本來也要出價它在廉價之前發布重訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11369.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11395.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
而玉山金跟山商人壽是到廉價之後也就禮拜一的晚上才發布重訊但是星期一山商人壽它的股價就已經暴跌而且值得重視的是是外資大賣玉山金這件事情當然在整個的金融跟證券市場就得到非常多的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11396.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11415.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
也就是說為什麼中信金可以提前四天發布重訊但是呢玉山金山上人壽竟然是一個是27號公告一個是28號都是在晚間凌晨的時候公告那當然這個很多我看到媒體也都會有追 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11416.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11434.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
金管會的態度我想請問一下金管會到目前為止對這個事件你們的態度是什麼是中信金發的不對還是玉山金跟山上人壽有違反這個重訓發布的相關的公告的規定然後要不要允許處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11435.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11450.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
好 我想跟委員說明跟報告剛剛已經有多位委員詢問相同的問題我也再重述一遍剛剛您提到有一家公司它在星期四發因為它開了董事會他們自己判斷按照重訓發布的規則它就發了重訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11451.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11477.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
那其實我剛才也再三說明了這個是他們在上市櫃公司跟交易所之間他們的一個契約行為這由交易所來處理那媒體很關心以後我們也請期局 請交易所趕快去了解我想交易所也提醒了他們今天已經是星期四了所以剛才有講過局長也承諾說這部分他會我們已經責成交易所趕快把它說明清楚對外 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11478.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11487.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
調查清楚對外說明該怎麼處理就怎麼處理這個到底你們所了解我說今天已經星期四了到底有沒有違反相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11488.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11504.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
對 我想這個是主要是我剛才可能要再重複一遍我知道 你們在講的就是那個規定裡面 就是處理程序裡面它是有一個第四條 第十一款吧就是它是董事會決議 對不對對那基本上它可以說董事會還沒有決議價格還沒有確定在董事會還沒有決議之前所以我可以不需要來發布重訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11517.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11536.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
但是这个事情为什么我特别提到外资大卖为什么外资大卖外资在廉价之前事实上都是买钞连续三天买钞外资大卖其中的一个原因就是这个有没有违反公司治理不够透明的问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11538.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11558.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那如果按照他没有违反这个相关的公告程序的话那他不是公司治理的问题这就是你们金融监理的问题啊你们怎么会让他混乱到这样的程度好我再来看过去其实我们在尤其金融市场的并购是非常普遍的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11559.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11578.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
但是过去确实要不要发重训我也看不出你们到底是什么样的标准比如说这个是当时星光金跟台新金他们先发重训因为他们董事会决议两边要一起研究还要不要合并结果你们各罚十万块 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11579.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11602.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
所以我就不懂了這樣子他們比較早發重訊就被罰十萬塊過去中興金跟京城銀行的就是在也是媒體傳出要併購然後盤前沒有發重訊然後你們金午晚會好像最後也不了了之所以這個事件凸顯的是什麼凸顯就是在併購的過程裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11605.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11609.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
顯然你們那個的法定的程序現在是混亂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11611.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11629 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
現在是混亂不然怎麼會有這麼多爭議呢不是 跟委員報告就像委員舉這兩個例子裡面因為他們自己專業的判斷就是因為我們現在重訓本來就很多要涉及到他們專業的判斷所以你留給他們一個很大的專業判斷空間然後股價大跌 外資大賣然後股民受損失都可以歸咎不過還沒有歸咎歸之於這些監控他們的專業判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11640.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11646.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
那請問一下我們金融監理的尺度在哪裡我們的原則在哪裡我們對於散戶的保護在哪裡外資大賣兩天18萬張耶你現在別魚帶風輕尊重他們的專業判斷委員我沒有魚帶風輕我只是跟您解釋一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11658.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11674.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我希望這個事件你們一定要給市場一個交代這麼多的顧問所以我們請那交易所趕快查明對外說明對不起 那個主席讓我再一點事情我再找一下那個央行的副總裁好嗎一個問題而已好 那請王委員把握時間好 會 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11681.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11691.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
副總裁我們今天談到的是虛擬貨幣剛才講美國現在強力推行穩定幣這是川普他大力推行 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11691.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11718.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
那其中為什麼要大力推行呢美國穩定幣他的準備是1比1美元資產所以他現在變成美國國債的好幫手那美國就希望他國債不要滯銷嘛對不對好所以他現在呢他的準備是1比1讓他呢大家對他比較安心那我看到你們報告你們也認為他發行要有準備那請問一下我們會不會也傾向於像美國一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11719.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11740.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
如果你是新台幣來做這個計價的話它應該也是用1比1的來做準備是 我們在報告裡面有提到這一點你們報告沒有1比1我們講穩定幣跟法幣1比1的報告所以未來我們也是比照美元計價的穩定幣是1比1但是這個問題來了美國國債一大堆 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11745.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11763.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
他恨不得趕快發行多一點消耗他的國債但是我們相對我們新台幣資產未必有這麼多我覺得這是後續他可能會衍生的問題因為我覺得這個問題蠻重要的我們也是以一比一來做未來的穩定幣發行的準備謝謝謝謝王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11768.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11795.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
接下來我們請侯孟楷委員侯孟楷委員侯孟楷委員下一位蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在下一位林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在下一位邱志偉委員邱志偉委員邱志偉委員不在好 本次會議做如下決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11797.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11813.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
今日登記發言委員均已詢答完畢本次會議作如下決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資訊請相關部會於一週內以書面答覆委員另要求期限者從其鎖定 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11814.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11830.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
委員林思明 李燕秀 林楚英所提書面質詢列入記錄 刊登公報並請相關部會議書面答覆四 本次會議議程已進行完畢堂友不在場委員補題書面質詢已並列入記錄 刊登公報並請議事人員協助處理散會 |