| IVOD_ID |
16991 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16991 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-5 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
5 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-29T08:37:59+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-29T11:56:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:18:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc021bb07685947ff6ef9173a6ca63f5aa0aa126c40303dc27280e0e0f043d1a205ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。
【10月29日及30日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:37:59 - 11:56:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1321.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1325.804 |
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報告委員會出席委員11人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1329.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1355.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
我們現在開始開會進行報告事項宣讀上一次的會議記錄立法院第十一屆第四會期司法及法治委員會第四次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百二十四年十月二十二日星期三上午九時至十二時十二分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員黃國昌委員等十三人列席委員張綺凱委員等十人列席官員司法院副秘書長王梅英 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1357.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1382.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主席汪釗及委員小林報告事項一 宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定二 邀請司法院秘書長列席說明立法計畫並備質詢本次會議有委員黃國昌等13人提出質詢委員賴會員傅坤祺提出書面質詢決定一 報告及詢答完畢二 委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關 晉書 宋嬌 個別委員及本會宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1390.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1401.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我們現在接著介紹到場的委員及應邀列席的官員我們先介紹在場的委員程培宇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1420.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1442.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
接著我們來介紹應邀列席的官員首先我們介紹行政總處人事長蘇俊榮人事長還有政務副人事長張秋元副人事長公務人力發展學院院長陳明忠 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1443.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1447.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
中和規劃署署長、李美惠署長、主編人力署署長、邱怡章邱署長、培訓考用署署長、李花書署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1462.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1484.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
吉宇福利處處長 程樹之程處長人事資訊處處長 莊樹宜莊處長秘書室主任 蔡富雄蔡主任還有我們人事室主任 程怡君程主任主計室主任 程立惠程主任政風室主任 余雅文余主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1487.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1495.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
來,我們現在先確定議事錄,請問各位上次非議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏?沒有的話,沒有錯誤跟遺漏的話,我們議事錄就確定了。 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1503.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1526.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
那我們本次會議就週三跟週四兩天一次會我們議程的一個排定我們邀請行政院人事行政總處人事長來列席報告業務的概況跟立法計畫並備諮詢我們現在來進行報告請行政院人事行政總處書人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1531.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1558.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席 各位委員 各位同仁 大家早安好人事總署統籌各機關人力資源管理的措施依政府施政的主軸務實推動組織的調整深化公部門人才的培訓建構友善健康職場等策略性人力資源管理作為以下請就總署重要的業務推動情形與未來工作重點及立法的計畫進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1560.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1577.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
首先在整個組織調整及人力配置部分配合國家政策推動組織調整我們已經以今年的9月成立運動部及簽名運動署推廣簽名運動並發展運動產業另外在人力的配置上總署秉持著當真則真 應檢則檢的原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1580.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1594.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
將給予的人力優先支援司法改革進行轉型以打造個人資料保護以邊境管理等攸關重大民生安全以新興的重點業務那明年度的政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1596.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1616.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
預算延額的總數是22萬800人較近年平均延額列增為524人其次在人才培育方面我們今年以智慧台灣永續前行為主主辦理國家政府研究班及高階領導研究班進行實務交流並預計以智慧國家轉型為主題 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1617.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1642.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
選送35人出國研習以增進AI落地應用資源同時為了推動公部門AI人才的一個發展以數位發展部以今年7月22號共同成立AI公務人才發展辦公室藉以前方為推動公部門AI人才培訓加速推動政府AI創新應用同時總數依照今年AI |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1643.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1660.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
政府領航人才而發展計畫辦理了多項的課程提高同仁對AI應用之理解與實作能力並整合線上的平台資源以一等公務員學習平台設置人工智慧專區以推動AI的素養普及 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1660.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1682.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
在推動友善職場方面總署跟保訓會協力完善職場霸凌與性騷防治的制度並增訂身心調適價配合世界心理健康日以今年的10月10號施行以保障同仁身心健康令我們亦持續推動員工協助方案勤修管理及 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1683.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1702.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
拖曳設施的建置營造友善與支持性的職場環境又為了照顧精工教員工配合機關實務實習及各類人員攬財留財需要合理調整各類人員的待遇包含提高公務國軍志願役勤務加急 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1704.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1723.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
調整特殊教育人員職務佳績 公立醫療機構及學校各類醫事人員專業佳績 營民行及查核作業終點會 核定公職獸醫師不開業獎金以及海巡矯正機關 輪班輪修人員 深夜圍牢性勤務津貼等 以提升職場吸引力 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1724.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1746.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
面對整個社會的變遷跟民眾期待的提升穩定而專業的公務人力是政策推動的基石展望115年總促將持續結合施政願景與國家發展重點穩健推動組織管理制度應用嚴格評鑑促進數位轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1747.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1767.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
積極提升高階人員國際視野結社能力深化AI領航人才培育以因應未來治理挑戰並持續推動智慧化的人事服務合理優化待遇與職場環境以提升工部門吸引力與流產競爭力敬請各位委員繼續一一支持 以上報告進行指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1773.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1803.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
好 我們現在開始進行我們現在機關代表報告完畢了相關書面的內容請各位來參閱並列入公報記錄現在我們開始進行詢答本會委員詢答時間八分鐘那我們必要時得延長兩分鐘非本會委員詢答時間五分鐘並不再延長那我們上午十點半截止發言登記我們現在請登記第一位吳宗憲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1807.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1809.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
我們麻煩人事長這邊先謝謝陳佩玉委員跟我們換排序 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1815.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1833.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
委員長早安我直接就開門見山的請教你是不是認同就是軍公教這些公務員是國家穩定的力量是不是我一直都是強調軍公教本來就是國家穩定那這些國家棟樑它會是國家的國安風險嗎潛在的國安風險嗎你會認為是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1841.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1861.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
在一個組織的範疇裡面一定會有少數是屬於風險人物所以為什麼我們在很多的機關會設政控單位來協助identify那一些高風險分子好 謝謝我現在有一個問題一直以來的問題而且我非常多以前的同事都跟我反映的一個問題他們說 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1864.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1885.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
公務員是國家的棟樑但是對公務員的管制其實也是非常的嚴格他現在赴大陸前要事先取得許可回國後也限7天內要報備這對不對 這沒錯吧所以他們有一些在抱怨說他們的爸爸媽媽在大陸工作他們為了過去看他們那一樣他就覺得好像是在被拷問一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1888.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1916.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
他們很多是沒有接觸到國家安全國家任何機密資料的人但是呢他就說卻得受到很多限制那感覺好像被盯哨那我想問一下一個問題這應該很簡單解釋長期就這麼樣了就是一個不涉及機密資料的基層兼任級的公務員他去歐洲旅遊但是呢他需要在中國大陸轉機那這時候是不是要先提出申請許可 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1918.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1939.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
目前是需要在106年開始就要所以這個很奇怪就是說今天連轉機它不管是入境轉機或者是機場轉機都要申請許可所以我先強調我絕對100%支持國家安全而且我痛恨出賣我們台灣出賣國家的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1940.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1954.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
所以我支持反滲透我不像有些官員國外有家家人都住在國外如果台灣出狀況我沒有地方跑我家老小都在台灣所以台灣是我的家 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1955.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
1972.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以任何洩露國防機密的任何侵害我國國家安全的我們都不可以手軟但是我們的手段也要合理正當我們不能讓政府用反滲透的民意然後進行前置自由的現實 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
1974.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
1992.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以剛剛人長你也認同就是說我們公務員是國家穩定的力量可是你要正視一個問題就是國家是不是過度的汙名化或是刁難或是用一些恐懼的方式去對付這些公務員請人長你要特別注意這個點 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
1994.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2008.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
因为法律虽然是陆委会等等其他机关他们所定的但是制度是你们所处理的对不对一些表格一些申报单什么都是你们在做的所以你们不能说这个是跟你们无关好不好你们注意一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2010.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2030.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
為什麼會這麼說我待會還會再提到這段時間離職率暴增的問題因為我們講人會用腳投票其實離職率暴增的40幾%其實是對於首長你的不認同所以你一定要特別注意這個點我知道你已經很努力在為公務員但是這會不會是因為政府大環境的問題那我再提一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2032.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2058.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我認為最近一直有一個問題就是你們一直很在乎公務員有沒有去中國大陸那邊有沒有戶籍等等的但是你們卻放縱高層的行政部中立我舉個例子 我先請教一下我直接講 兩岸條例第九條公務員赴大陸要事先申請許可這個是法律規定的所以你們也不得不做對不對按照規定就是一定要做 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2059.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2088.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
但是呢 我再提第二個這個東西是你們必須依法行政我認同因為我國兩案條例第九條有做這樣的規定所以你們必須這麼處理我覺得這是沒問題但是啊公務員服務法第一條它也有要求要依法行政啊那你們有沒有看到現在很多高官都不依法行政我不知道你們有沒有注意到這個問題譬如說 好 我直接講譬如說左鴻泰院長他不依法編列軍警銷的待遇跟退休金預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2089.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2115.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那這種人不應該嚴辦嗎所以我今天看到的就是你對出盡戶籍你盯得半死對基層公務員下手很重但是對於高層的直接違法你們都當作沒有看到那甚至像之前那個花蓮災情的時候有一個81人群組因為這是公開的訊息我就直接講它裡面有出現殺傷力訊息跟行政院秘書長張純然說跟四方處理中 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2116.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2134.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
这种完全违反行政中立的事情请问一下你们有真的有去正视这个问题吗他们没有把我加入群组所以我比较不清楚我知道 但是不是 你不能这样讲那公务员违法犯罪也没有把我加入群组我就不处理他吗你不能讲这句话 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2135.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2155.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
不過我跟委員報告一件事就是說行政院對金人待遇條例還有警察人員的人事條例這兩個規定坦白講以行政院立場他已經提出跟憲法法庭去做釋憲的動作在這個釋憲結果還沒有出來胡說八道 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2156.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2178.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
哪一個法律有這樣規定的你告訴我你現在告訴我哪一個法律有規定這樣申請釋憲就可以不動作你去看憲法訴訟法憲法訴訟法這樣規定嗎你們這胡說八道你今天我跟你講你今天在我面前我真的很尊敬你的人你今天在我面前你竟然違法的告訴全國國人這個錯誤的法律概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2179.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2205.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
你不可以這樣做我一直很尊重你我覺得你至少是個講道理的人憲法訴訟法不是這樣規範的你不能這樣子講你在這邊講的每一句話都是在誤導國人你現在是左榮泰的鸚鵡嗎你可以這樣嗎憲法訴訟法52條你提起憲法訴訟是不停止法律的適用不是說停止就停止左榮泰直接違法違憲 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2207.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2219.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
算了 我这不是你的事那我不要讲请你不要附送行政院院长违法的论述我很讨厌行政官员你是高官高官来这里还说出违法的话就不对了 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2220.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2238.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
如果你今天不想碰这件事我觉得是没有关系但你不能直接在那边告诉国人违法的事情申请释宪不会停止法律的适用所以我一直跟人家讲那我认为税捐基金法违宪我申请释宪那是我从今天开始不用缴税可以这样吗宪法诉讼法52条就说不行嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2239.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2265.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
所以你既然在那邊這樣子我覺得不應該啦好 那81人群組那個我想你沒有回答 你說你不在裡面好 那就算了但是我在這邊跟您報告那個完全違反行政的中立因為那個時間點也不應該救災的黃金旗他們也是政務官 也是領國家薪水而且殺傷力訊息這個在一般行政文書上面不會用所以等於你們就高官的部分違反你們都不管啊 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2266.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2277.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
然後基層員工基層的人去大陸你們就要管那個主席 報告主席先暫停一下有個會議詢問我想請教一下先暫停一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2279.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2299.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這樣暫停 你都問你會怎麼做我要會議詢問你要問哪一個時間我會給你不用詢問 繼續我想請教因為我們現在公務員出國是今天的議題公務員出國要申報許可我想請教一下目前民進黨黨員去大陸要不要事先申請許可這個你就直接主席不是你質詢的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2301.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2320.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
不是 我說我會議詢問嘛會議詢問 你可以不回答人事長在這個地方 你就質詢就好主席你是老立委 我們應該對於沒有那麼老 跟你一樣你是直升的立委我們對議事規則都很清楚其實我們委員是可以對主席提出會議詢問的沒關係 主席不方便回答學務5G 好 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2325.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2345.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我這邊講很簡單啦就我剛問主席 主席不方便回答就是民進黨黨員去大陸需不需要向民進黨先生事先許可我不知道那主席也不方便講那但是呢我回答你一下因為你一直要我回答我告訴你六都的民進黨台北市議院連申請都不用申請因為連讓你去都不讓你去不是啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2346.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2359.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我說黨員 立法委員主席你不能歪掉我說黨員我不是說公職啦 謝謝公職一定有 民進黨的黨員就不是在這個地方被你質詢的對象嗎好不好 你要想問我私底下來告訴你沒關係 沒關係喔 那就這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2361.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2389.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
好啦 我的問題很簡單我想大家都聽得懂我的問題就只是黨員那所以我對於公務員連不涉及機密公務員赴大陸要這樣做我是覺得很奇怪啦其實這樣做會造成行政機關對整個文官體制的不信任因為整個國家就在配合的政府在那邊做一些奇怪的事情第二個 任何法律的規定其實你要考量到它的比例原則也就是目的手段這是憲法規定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2389.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2417.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
那你今天他去那裡落地或去那裡他會泄密嗎如果要泄密我通訊軟體也可以泄密我約第三國也可以泄密這個時代跟二次大戰前不一樣秘密的交付他有各種各式的現代化數位傳遞的方式所以你禁止他去你能做到的只是我們讓國人更少去大陸不要了解那些狀況讓兩岸更不了解對方你做到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2417.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2434.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
目的只有这个所以这个到底意义在哪里我认为不符合比例原则好 那因为时间到了那刚刚主席也没有让我时间暂停那我想我就提了一下就是因为您上任到现在这最后您上任到现在 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2436.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2464.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
離職率暴增了41%其實這是對於身為人事總署最高主管你的一個最大的否定所以請你要注意一下因為我們現在看到的就是高層吃乾媽淨基層沒有尊嚴感所以新人不想考進來當公務員年輕人流失光光請問一下這個制度是我們以前的觀念裡面要把一流人才帶進政府嗎所以我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2465.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2485.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
兩個月內我想麻煩你們給我一份報告在這裡就是對於賦入報備必須風險分級還有精確治理這部分麻煩你們給我報告我剛剛講了法制雖然是陸委會他們但是你們管理跟表格等等那個是你們而且這跟公務員的感覺有很大關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2486.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2510.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那最後我也請你們再研議一個東西就是違反規定可不可以一事不在理的用兩岸人民條例還有公務員懲戒法兩個都下去處罰你們注意一下這個點那我知道你一定會跟我說因為兩個法規的性質不合所以重疊這樣去處罰與法沒有違反但是我也跟你講大法官的見解已經不是這樣大官見解認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2512.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2539.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
你一個行為要兩個不同的法律一起處罰有可能違反醫師不在理因為如果說這個同意行為他沒有侵害到多重法益這個時候其實他不應該受到多重的處罰如果你們不清楚你可以來問我們我這邊或我們辦公室那邊跟你講不然你刑罰也下去懲處也下去這等於是違反醫師不在理的雙重處罰這部分麻煩你們能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2540.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2554.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
演繹一下順便給我 不懂的你們可以問我好 謝謝吳宗憲委員這個口才越來越好但是時間就控制得比較差一點 謝謝接下來我們請程培宇委員詢答給你按讚 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2569.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2588.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
謝謝吳宗憲委員發揮同袍愛關心主席的眼睛但是我要提醒一下剛剛那個會議那個詢問其實不在程序可以問的範圍之內而且問到民進黨黨員是要幫中共一起處理嗎這個很奇怪昨天中共才說要通緝沈伯陽好 謝謝主席我有請人事長 謝謝請蘇人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2592.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2610.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
委員長好 人事長我們來講一下最近有非常多媒體都刻意錯誤的引導輿論說台灣教師荒很可怕我不知道人長你這邊的資料怎麼看我們辦公室非常負責任的關心這一題我們來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2611.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2629.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這個相關的數字呢密密麻麻我講給人長聽這個是113學年度各縣市學校正式教師就是他到時候呢入職之後他用的是年金是公立學校教職人員退休服務去調理的時候我們來看一下我們辦公室非常負責任的要了111 1121 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2632.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2646.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
113三個學年度整理完之後呢就變成這個表格只呈現了113我跟你說一下來正式教師的部分呢在國小新北呢光是報名5364人只錄取647人12%國中的部分報名2839人錄取189人6% |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2655.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2669.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
高中的部分4356人報名只錄取106這是2%這個是新北市的113學年度國小 國中 高中的正式教師錄取情況跟報名情況我們來看一下台北 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2670.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2674.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
國小的部分就有3603個人報名 只錄取了278人 7%國中的部分報名3392人 只錄取131 3.8%高中的部分更可怕 113年 就是去年而已報名10398人 只錄取156人 1.5% |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2694.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2712.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
所以我要說這個教師荒這件事情很多輿論一直說沒有人要當老師那我就讓人長看光是113年台北跟新北大家覺得生活費高房租高的地方好像沒有人要報名去當老師結果事實不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2714.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2734.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
事實不是這樣所以我想要問一下人長這個數據我不知道你手上有沒有這個數字我要說正式教師其實從來都沒有教師黃所以相關的輿論非常可惡的去誤導這個方向那我們當然要說 至於正式老師另外一個叫做什麼代理教師 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2737.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2756.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
代理教師的困境是這樣左邊這個奇怪的圖不是我辦公室做的是很多學校為了招聘代理教師他們自己老師自己就發揮了創意做這個梗圖說成為老師要像鋼鐵人體育老師一招二招三招這樣然後連相關的新聞都說建中缺老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2758.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2783.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
可以去護國神山誰要當代理教師這個媒體還算負責他標題有寫清楚叫誰要當代理教師確實很多學校是缺代理教師的什麼一招二招七招八招十幾招意思是什麼對照我前一張投影片來看其實如果要說教師荒我認為應該是代理教師荒好仁長你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2784.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2808.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
因為長期我都在台東地區那台東地區的教師方我跟當地的教育處長還有一些老師談是沒有另外還有一個代理老師的部分坦白講在那個地方你要到學校當老師或代理老師事實上都很困難你必須要很有實力你才能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2809.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2832.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
去當代理老師我個人的親自體驗是沒有代理老師放在台東那個地區那個是幾年前你要講清楚沒有 這幾年always是這樣這幾年因為每一年我都在那裡好幾次就是有跟他們當地的運動教練還有當地的教育單位在對話因為他們也教我很多東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2833.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2848.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好 我們來看一下你說你沒有感受到代理教師慌可是確實我必須要說還是有相關數字呈現代理教師慌但是我為什麼要把代理教師跟正式老師放在一起比較其實關鍵是代理教師他現在用的是勞保 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2850.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2877.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
而且代理教師在比較封閉的學校教育體系當中要去兼任行政還要去做很多正式老師不想做的事情都丟包給代理教師甚至我們之前也接到非常多陳情很多地方的教育局處他在徵選或者是學校在徵選代理教師的時候他都不直接寫明你要兼任行政然後把人家拐騙之後才讓人家兼任行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2879.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2892.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這是另外一個困境所以我要講的是說正式教師他用的是年金而代理教師用的是勞保然後正式老師他有工作的保障他進去之後如果他沒有備用不適應教師 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2895.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2922.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
請離開這個教育現場他基本上可以做到好做到滿做到老做到他不想做為止那甚至呢他們還不用兼很多行政而這些事情相關的福利或者是相關的行政重量其實都在代理教師身上所以我要先鄭重澄清我認為現在大量在講教師荒這件事情其實我們要證明叫做代理教師荒確實有出現在某些縣市甚至是某些層級的學校但不代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2923.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2944.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
整體有教師荒因為剛剛正式教師的報名的部分我已經講得很清楚了為什麼要講這個你一定覺得很奇怪因為今天要講年輕改革上個禮拜呢翁曉琳委員她所召開的公聽會裡面就有非常多的老師一直拿著所謂報考人數啊或者是教師荒來談年輕改革必須要跟上他們的腳步 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2944.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2955.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
必須符合他們的訴求那我就問啦正式教師都沒有教師荒了到底他們這個邏輯是什麼我還是不懂啦但是我想這不是我今天要跟你討論的重點我要講的是下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2957.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2979.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
現在教師的緣額或教師的困境其實是根據教育部的國民小學跟國民中學班級編制跟教職員緣額編制準則相關的規定不管是1.65人或者是2.2人我想這個都很清楚緣額的部分照理說這個條文本來寫的是學校編制的地板可是實務上運作變成天花板 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
2980.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3001.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那確實現在也有很多老師說現在的孩子班級人數看起來變少了我們小時候一個班是50個人要坐到垃圾桶後面去這樣可是現在一個班大概只有30個人可是問題是現在30個孩子的家庭啊社區啦孩子們的生命經驗相對於我們小時候複雜多元的很多而且一個老師所能夠處理的狀況呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3002.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3029.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
沒有辦法處理要這麼多孩子的狀況甚至這幾年很多特教生也增加了確實地方老師的負擔是變很大我相信我們都認同所以我們有沒有可能在新版才化法很多錢都跑到地方政府去囉光是花蓮就增加一百六十幾億台北市增加四百多億而這些原本該屬於地方政府應該要負責的教師員兒的部分可不可以實際的去請他們做一些事情你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3032.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3060.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
我覺得這應該可以納入整個才化法的綜合來考量因為之前我知道教育部也做了很多努力偏鄉的老師有時候也留不住嘛後來他們也有做留庭的一些獎勵的機制所以慢慢偏鄉的老師也留下來那以這一個為當一個指標的話因為他的percentage可能不是很比例不是很重可是我覺得可以納入參考參考值可以納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3061.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3075.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
我要再次忽悠新版財化法之後光是台北市就拿走400多億可是他現在開始還沒有開始認真編預算就天天叫窮天天說都是中央的責任沒關係啦你不用救你們長官沒事這樣沒事我跟你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3076.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3097.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我要講的新版才化法這件事情我認為地方政府必須要扛起責任尤其在教師員額的部分那我當然希望人長這邊你們可以給他們專業的建議到底我們怎麼協助地方老師而地方政府應該要怎麼負責不要到時候再甩鍋給中央而地方教師的責任相關財政的責任跟義務其實在地方政府對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3099.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3117.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
是 所以我覺得委員提了非常重要的一個概念就是我們會去跟教育部還有我們各個地方政府的人事主管你不能只找教育部你要找地方政府的人對 兩個教育部要找還有我們地方政府的人事主管讓他一起來參議 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3118.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3138.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
因為這是兩方面因為教育端的部分還是以教育部為主體可是在剛才委員所指教的就是以地方的一個財政的一個分工部分也要讓我們人事通人知道整個財劃法如果改編以後它整個的經費來源可能會從地方政府來支付 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3138.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3166.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
而且要真的協助地方老師國民黨都口口聲聲說要為老師好要為老師好要為小孩好要為小孩我就問這些相關的地方權責在教育的工作上地方政府難道不用負責任嗎我覺得非常的荒謬我時間有限我尊重主席希望大家尊重時間我直接跳到最後一張其實我今天問這麼多就是要講到關於年金改革的事情尤其是年金制度並不是你的年金或者我的年金 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3167.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3196.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
而是我們的年金它同時也是我們子孫的年金而且更是不會倒也不能倒的年金在這裡英九要說的也許未來的年金大家領到的比現在的略少可是可以讓大家放心的領30年讓我們的子孫也能夠領得到大家要對政府有信心 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3198.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3203.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
我甚少同意馬英九總統說過的話但是這一段我是同意的跟大家分享 謝謝好 謝謝陳培委員接下來我們請黃國昌委員宣導謝謝主席 有請任市長請任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3229.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3251.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
委員長董事長早今天看到你們人總的報告說要合理調整各類人員的待遇我看了這個報告以後我心裡非常有感觸理由是我上個禮拜跑到谷關公務段去進行會勘來請人事長看一下這個谷關公務段 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3252.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3281.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
它所涵蓋的範圍從東勢新社然後仁愛然後和平可以說是第一個非常的偏遠第二個地勢非常的高那天我從台中高鐵站坐車子到合歡山隧道總共花了兩個半小時那跟我同行的同仁甚至還暈車出現了高山症的狀態 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3282.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3302.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
當然我上去合歡山隧道會刊有另外公務上面的目的但我在進行會刊的時候我就會去關心第一線同仁在那麼偏遠的地方又那麼高他們住在哪裡工作 勤務會不會非常的重 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3303.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3321.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
了解他們工作的狀況因為自己有去現場看過我才知道說第一個那裡真的滿辛苦的因為在台灣可能綜合包括了台八線然後八甲等等全部剛剛那個道路 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3322.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3349.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
我把它全部都畫出來了他們管轄的道路範圍大概從苗栗台中南投甚至到花蓮的交界工作非常非常的辛苦在了解他們工作的內容以後我就進一步問說因為我那天上去看的是谷關公務段的同仁負責我就問他們說你們谷關公務段現在有多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3351.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3373.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
他跟我說大概20個左右我說你們預算原額有多少他跟我說大概40個左右我聽了嚇一大跳只有一半我第一個問題是你們一半的人做全部的事情同仁受得了嗎他給我的回答很直接留不住人 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3376.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3395.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
沒有人要一天到晚在高山上面做這麼繁重的工作當然我自己上去講得不好意思一點我是去給他們更多的工作因為用路人有需求希望合歡山隧道裡面要裝燈 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3397.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3424.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這個牽涉到用路人安全的問題人命關天該做的事情我還是拜託他們做但是在另外一方面我聽到他們第一線工作現場的狀況我非常的擔心我非常的擔心只有一半的人要做全部的事情這個系統不是一個具有可維持性的系統這絕對不是sustainable |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3425.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3452.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
的一個系統因此我就去調了一下你們各個公務段職員人力的狀況我發現不管是股官 埔里 信義 大武這些比較偏遠比較高的地方人事長你看一下預算原額跟現有原額其實都有相當程度的落差代表的是什麼代表的是說我們立法院有給這樣的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3454.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3469.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
就是有錢是有錢可以去請人的現實上就沒有這麼多人我的問題是針對這樣的現象我相信任市長應該有掌握我要請教你的是這個問題要怎麼解決繼續這樣下去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3474.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3492.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
謝謝委員這個問題事實上這個問題大概最近這幾年我也親自跑了很多的地方那委員所講的這些事情我感同身受那甚至在今年跟上一年我們也特別到沒有啦 我沒有要問你的感受我的問題要怎麼解決啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3493.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3517.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
好 我們目前採取的措施是針對土木工程這一類人他留不住我們第一個有給他額外的政治專業家籍還有專業的一些工程的獎金還有就是留任的獎金這三個什麼時候增加的應該七月 去年去年的七月就增加你覺得有用嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3518.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3533.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我覺得有一點效果可是因為整個市場的供需是效果沒有那麼我到現在啦因為你說你去年增加嘛那我今年去看結果還是這樣所以我才問你說你覺得有效果嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3534.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3561.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我剛才也跟委員報告過了有效果可是效果不是很顯著所以我們今年又增加在花東地區那裡的工程人員我們有分兩級一級一個月給八千另外第二級給三千我們希望用這一種再把待遇部分再拉伸的方式來留住更多的工務同仁我這樣講好了啦因為上去 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3561.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3589.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我當然上去會勘是給他們增加工作增加工作也不是為了我自己是為了所有用路的人但是我也可以體會到他們在那邊工作的繁重已經根本沒有人要去那邊上班了因為你坐一趟車上去那個感受很直接我那時候問跟我一起會勘的同仁說你每天上下班要花多少時間他說大概三個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3590.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3609.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
三個小時 最少三個小時開車一個半小時上去一個半小時回來而且不是平路喔是山路 在那邊轉來轉去就坐了會暈車的那一種那我想一下說哇 那每天三個小時那你為什麼不住在山上那不對啊 人家有家庭啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3610.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3625.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
他住在山上他的家人怎麼辦我們總是要幫人家設想所以我有答應他們要幫他們請命就是你們再去思考一下這種偏遠高山地區的地域家籍有沒有調整的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3627.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3646.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
因為我查了一下資料高山偏遠地區的佳績我看一下你們人種112年的報告你們針對離島的佳績是有調整過可是高山跟偏遠地區我看到你們2023年的書面報告說是上一次調整是民國100年 2011年 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3649.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3671.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
這個報告的內容對不對還是這兩年高山偏遠地區的佳績有調整是我沒有掌握的我跟委員補充一個資訊就是針對大概有六七個縣市我們有提供一個合理化方案由整個縣市政府去評估它的location還有它用人對 你先回答我事實的問題因為你們上次的書面報告我看 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3672.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3700.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這些偏遠地方的加擠上一次定的標準是民國100年7月1號生效過去這十幾年有調整過嗎這是偏遠加擠的部分是維持這樣可是我們有讓縣市政府多了一個Alternative另外一個現象就是一個合理化方案由這個合理化方案我舉一個很簡單的例子像在屏東地區屏東地區你在恆春半島的這個地方它的交通一定是 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3701.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3728.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我現在就直接問因為你扯到地方政府我就聽不懂這些公務段的人他是屬於中央政府還是地方政府公務機關中央的他也可以使用他也一併適用就是合理化方案我聽不懂你跟地方政府有這個提供合理化方案問題是他就是隸屬在中央機關我想會後我們送一份資料給委員參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3729.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3754.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
你要送什麼資料給我參考人事長你注意聽我講一句話就好了顯然到目前為止我所收集整理出來的資料沒有錯啦偏遠地區的家具上一次調整定案是民國一百年嘛現在已經十幾年了嘛第二個我幫這一些高山偏遠地區的同仁請命實際上也有需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3755.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3775.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
因為員額就缺在那裡嘛我為了他們實際工作的狀況我自己也在想如果是我我願意來嗎如果是其他人其他人願意來嗎你一個月給三千塊要賺到這樣這樣子真的有提供足夠的誘因嗎所以我第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3777.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3796.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
幫基層的同仁請命這件事情是不是可以請人事長人總回去再重新檢討一下第二個剛剛你說的是所謂的合理化方案你的意思是說這個合理化方案它取代了從100年以來到目前為止沒有調整的地域家籍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3798.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3819.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我們就是整個待遇的制度變成更有彈性有些地方政府因為他有剛才我提了這個情況因為合理化方案就是給地方政府更多的彈性他的遊戲規則訂出來以後是否那個地區裡面的地方公務人員跟中央的地方公務人員一體適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3819.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3841.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那對啊 你的數字就編在這裡啊他最多只是極速做調整嘛沒有 委員你之前說的那是偏遠高山加級那是一個機制在那裡另外我們還有一個叫做合理化方案對啊 但我講到底啦如果你的合理化方案有用的話我們今天就不會出現這個現況我說的應該沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3844.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3857.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我覺得如果你的合理化方案有用啊我覺得我今天到那邊就不會出現這個現況嗎委員你說的 我們會再去檢討 再去調整因為最近我們也想去 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3859.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3875.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
針對這個偏遠地區還有高山地區的大意去做一個整體性的調整很好 其實我要你的我要的只有這句話啦因為我看不懂嘛從民國100年以後離島地區的有調整高山偏遠的沒有調整我就看不懂 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3876.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3902.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
理由是什麼因為你們離島的一直有調整當然離島的調整我沒意見 不要誤會說離島的不應該調整到時候陳雪生來找我算帳沒有 我完全沒有這個意思離島該調整就調整但問題是說離島的從100年以後你們陸陸續續一直調整上來高山偏遠的都沒有調整都沒有調整的狀況之下就造成上面缺額很嚴重這個是我看到的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3903.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3923.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
因為有這個問題我看到那些同仁很辛苦我也不忍心那所以我必須要藉由質詢的時候公開的跟人事長幫他們請命100年從民國100年到現在沒有調整15年過去了啦15年過去了啦是時候重新調整檢討一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3924.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
3936.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我答應委員我們會盡快來檢討這個部分OK 全部的人都聽到了下一個問題相同的狀況還不是只有一般的公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
3938.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
3961.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
全國教師跟偏遠地區教師代理的比例我想這個數字非常清楚代理教師他們很辛苦那代理教師不應該是一個常態我相信大家都有共識即使全國教師我們看平均的比率大概有十幾但是到偏遠地區的時候高達百分之二十幾 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
3962.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
3991.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
甚至高達25%每四個老師有一個是代理教師 一樣偏遠地區啊 代理教師的比例非常的高衝擊學生的受教權這件事情我相信任市長不會否認吧我知道這件事情你知道這件事情嘛那你打算怎麼解決這個部分我想我再找教育部來跟他們看看他們有什麼政策再待意調整過後面我們再予以協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
3993.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4011.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
因為在今年8月30號的時候教文的公聽會其實就有NGO的朋友說他過去是基層教師他提供一些建議跟觀察他以前在嘉義縣在符合發放資格的學校國中小只有20所 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4012.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4036.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
但是他們按照最新的偏遠地區學校名冊其實加以現在偏遠特偏極偏的學校總共有97所也就是其實有將近八成的學校是屬於偏遠地區可是我們卻沒有按月得到應該有的佳績來補貼這個是基層教師在立法院的公聽會所提出來的呼籲任市長有沒有聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4038.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4058.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
事實上委員 這個我們上一年親自還去嘉義縣的那個廣華國小事實上是非常的偏僻啦 非常偏僻啦你還好意思說你去年有去 你去年有去人家今年一樣講一樣的事情 等於問題沒解決嘛我不是說我今年 我是說我今年有去 這是一個事實你看了之後做了什麼事 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4058.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4080.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我們有跟嘉義縣政府去提因為他的財政的部分是地方政府要來cover這一塊那我們有請我們所以是嘉義縣政府不肯 地方政府的問題我也是地方政府的事情但是這件事要改革就是中央 郊友部跟地方都要做出來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4081.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4107.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
好 你說齁 我今天質詢完你會去找教育部談嘛 對不對那談完了以後你們的會議的記錄跟結論可不可以送一份到我辦公室來因為我很關心這件事情啊因為這不只是公務員連教師都出現這樣的狀況那我們希望偏遠地區的小孩他們的受教權也充分受保障所以你跟教育部談完了以後你們的會議結論可不可以送一份到我辦公室來 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4109.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4133.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
這樣我才能確保你真的有去談真的有結論嘛不然你一定要在我面前說說我不會啦你面前說啦在後面那張我做不夠的好沒有關係你們會議的記錄跟結論真的談完了以後送一份到我辦公室來可以嗎可以喔好謝謝謝謝謝謝黃國昌委員接下來請林倩琪委員宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4136.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4139.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
這樣就對了謝謝我們辛苦的張昌偉我請一下我們蘇仁市長請仁市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4151.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4162.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
委員長 董事長 你好修昇 我也是剛才黃委員在質詢 我很有共鳴的他在關心的整個議題 我也是很關心的所以你跟教育部說的那個結果也送給我一份 好不好我要呼應他的 是他對於偏鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4169.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4184.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
非常的關心這個其實長久的問題本席對於原鄉還有有一些都會去比較偏鄉的部分也是在一些專業的一些技術人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4185.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4202.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
的這個佳績這也是本席在關心的但是今天本席因為有幾個主要的重點要跟你討論所以這也請你給大家關心一下尤其是原鄉剛才跟黃委員所講的很類似的問題其實一直在發生尤其是一些專技人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4204.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4224.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
所以改天要這個部分跟您好好的討論但是我先跟你要一個資料剛才黃委員這邊講的你在幾個偏眼地區的合理化方案這個部分的計畫是不是可以給本席一份所以因為其實本席關心的東西也有一些是重疊的所以未來可能還要再跟您做更深入一點討論好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4226.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4243.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
會後會給委員 大概這個禮拜一定會給你所以那整個 你說六七個縣市你跟他們有這樣子一個合理化方案那本席來看看我們是不是可以一起找出問題然後把一些東西 至少中長期我們把它法制化這樣你們也省掉一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4245.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4265.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以今天我要跟你討論的 也是軍公教待遇這個調整的一個法治化因為現在的一個狀況 大家都會覺得有點黑箱但是我們有的東西法治化有一個依循 做到一個公平的機制這樣大家可能不會 比較不會經常有不同的想法 我們可以有一個最大的公約數 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4266.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4291.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所以今天整個就是這長期以來軍公教的待遇的調整比較沒有一個法制化的基礎程序上感覺不太透明所以呼應到今年在八月份的時候行政院就拍板說明年軍公教的人員不調薪教育部同事來舉辦的軍公教員工待遇調整的座談會 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4293.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4314.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
雖然你們說是傾聽基層 凝聚共識但是很多教育團體都表達不滿他們說這根本不是協調 純粹是摸頭大會來強調行政跟開放政府的時候大家會覺得這有點形式主義因為講了半天 最後的結果離大家的期待有很大的一段距離所以軍公教其實在這個部分非常失望 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4317.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4331.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
可能座談會本身問題不是那麼大但是呢 大家會感覺背後有一點黑箱 因為沒法治所以在這個軍公教待遇審議的委員會裡面其實是握有具體的建議權但是重點是 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4332.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4353.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
你們排除了這個基層代表的一個參與這個是有參與的這個人員他們所講的一個狀況那審議最後的結果是行政院在拍板那這個攸關十多萬軍公教人員的這個重要制度如果沒有法治基礎的運作那就每年就會有一些變化所以呢這個任市長為什麼跟你請教兩個核心的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4354.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4380.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
就是說這個條新誰來決定依據什麼標準來決定會這樣講就是說因為沒有目前這個條新的審議沒有明確的法條規範也沒有固定的計算公式條幅的大小常常都會看政府的所謂你們所說的財政跟政治氣氛你們常說財政不好就沒有辦法處理但是其實真正的核心是我們怎麼樣讓財政變好 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4382.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4403.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
但是一般百姓關心的就是法制化的基礎上大家對於未來比較可以有期待也可以了解未來的一些變化我們怎麼去因應我們不希望每年都看政府的財政跟政治的氣氛這樣的制度有點違反公開的原則跟我們民主政治也有點相悖所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4404.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4419.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
其實你們在去年有承諾2024年底你們完成這個條新的法制化但是我想你可能會告訴我說現在還卡在行政院我不知道是不是你待會可以給我一個回應我們看到這個感覺法制化的一個承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4420.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4445.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
現在已經2025年底了好像又要跳票了對於軍公教的調整都這樣可以延宕我們政府怎麼樣呼籲民間企業來為勞工來加薪所以本席認為要恢復軍公教信任跟制度的穩定應該有兩個改革第一個是調新的法制化這樣能夠確保基層的權益第二個是機制要專業化確保能夠抗通膨 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4446.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4473.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
所以我簡單說明一下軍公教人員待遇調整的草案目前趕快送來立法院我們要明確規範審議委員會的組織職權跟運作方式而且要納入一定比例的基層代表讓軍公教人員能夠預期調薪的時間條件跟幅度不要年年在感覺上好像依賴高層的上億 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4476.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4491.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
接下來就是現行的制度要能夠採物價指數這個部分目前沒辦法好好的反映生活的成本所以過去13年我們的經濟成長已經達了43.04%但是民生物價漲了26.63%最低工資漲了51.56%但是軍工銷條薪剛14%而已所以實質的購買力都已經被通膨吞噬掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4503.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4518.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
剛才我們說到 如果要加薪留財但是軍公教感覺上好像實質減薪這樣子的雙重標準大家很難依循所以今年那個調薪的法制化有沒有可能在這個會期送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4520.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4548.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
謝謝委員給我這個機會來討論那個條帶法之外我們在上一年12月17號已經經過政務委員審議那現在坦白講就是躺在行政院欠缺最後一里路現在就是last mile現在就是last milelast mile有在行政院走好久喔因為最近國內的大事情比較多所以我們一直在那裡cue那我們也期待說 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4550.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4570.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我也希望他可以順順地來啦啊 第二就是剛才委員現在還在行政院對不對你去年12月就送出來現在還在行政院嘛 對不對就來不及因為產線有限所以大家要去排好啦 感謝啦你替行政院在講話啦但是拜託好不好請議長還是你們這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4572.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4596.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
很多東西我聽起來 大家都覺得卡在行政院這樣大家年年都在期待 當時還可以真的完成最後一條路我三五年都有去拜託但是 極限也比較多極限的應該也不少所以我只好就是用等待來喚起我的夢想的實現 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4599.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4616.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
另外剛才委員關心的就是這個整個條帶法治法的部分我們大概未來會有一個諮詢委員會那諮詢委員會裡面大概會有你本身說的一定的代表基層的代表可以納入嗎差不多有兩層那有兩層是基層的代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4617.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4630.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
就兩聲啦 真正請聽我們記者的心聲啦剛才委員在提就是說每次的開會大家的表現的方式當然每一個人的期望值都不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4631.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4647.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
如果是一般的教師代表希望大家每年都可以調然後今年在談的時候也有人說該何時調10% 20%每一個人期望你自己可以判斷你如果有法治基礎就有一個公約數對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4650.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4667.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那個法治基礎是基本本但是大家標示意見所以我們會有一些參考的一個剛才委員有特別提到你說的是這個參考的價值嘛基本上十幾年來 二十幾年來你們可以抓一個基準嘛這個部分應該是你們可以做的嘛所以今天本市的訴求就兩個啦一個法治化 然後納入基層的代表的一個比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4678.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4679.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4705.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4708.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
但是我們還是以民為主主要這都是民間的人民的問題我們還是要積極來處理好不好拜託 今天這兩件好不好剛才黃國昌委員說的我們地方的家籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4721.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4734.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
這其實都是基層的問題你們覺得整個施政基層的問題我們很大一部分都沒有解決嗎我們一起加油都有解決 只是說一直有新的議題出來好啦 法治化啦 好不好讓大家有一個公平的基礎 好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4737.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4761.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
好 代理 我很快的跟你講一下這是跟你們內部有點關係我知道你是資訊專業你們上個月發生一件系統測試的問題跟台北市政府你們在台北市政府你們把APP推播台北市停班停課瞬間在平台 大家就很困惑剛剛你們台北市政府有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4762.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4776.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
是你們的人事總署看國家災害教育科學中心在民生市井公開資料平台上測試但是重點是你們沒有說測試所以大家都叫是真的因為在上班日 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4777.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4794.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
結果你們就在中央和地方就在說我們本來以前就有測試但是你們以前如果測試你們都有放測試的字眼但是現在你們台北市可能上的時候你們不可以再測試你會說什麼地方自己要自動爬取錯誤任市長你資訊專業你覺得這樣說會過嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4798.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4813.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我跟委員報告一下以前寫的測試是用中文寫的測試現在要自動化以後我們寫TEST你怎麼跟人家說現在TEST你怎麼跟每一個人說TEST不是每一個人都知道TEST是什麼意思所以這一件事情後來我們有跟國科會去拜託負責的要去建構 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4825.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4839.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
一個正式作業區 還有一個測試區讓大家正式的就不會去放掉了對啦 任市長 你想的會比較大啦想的會比較專業不不不 我跟你說很簡單的啦你說這個 你有什麼Test 大家自動跳過不好意思 如果平常是大家看測試你這個要Test 你也要確定每一個層級都知道Test 是什麼意思我跟你說一個例子啦 今天比較開心的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4851.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
4869.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
不好意思我們就用吳宗憲委員的很創意的做法我來跟你講一下今天我們在簽名怎麼有一個我自己以為那個是東南亞文但是我有確認我就問議事人員說這裡是什麼人結果是吳宗憲委員非常遵循宴會的傳統 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
4873.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
4889.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
所以他簽的字是直的我們平常都看委員會給我們的這個格式是橫的我如果沒有問我可能剛剛可能有找到什麼人到最後自己確認光是我一個人這件事情就會產生這麼大的誤差了你那些測試你不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
4891.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
4912.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
說大家的生意都要天氣好跟你資訊專業一樣都可以了解所以這間臺北市政府創作這麼大條事後又說我們要自己爬梳這樣對不對要檢討好不好所以重點就是安全告知跟雙重確認的制度我們要好好檢討事情發生以後中央跟地方一起來處理好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
4916.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
4926.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
謝謝林倩琦委員下次你如果全程的話多給你兩分鐘接下來我們請王逸川委員詢答你如果英文給三分 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
4941.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
4946.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請任市長請任市長委員長好 任市長早最近我有看到台北市議員提出來說首都的公務員要有加級你有看過這個新聞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
4966.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
4989.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這個問題其實我們內部也有討論幾個檔案那就是有一點類似裁劃法那個定義還有範圍就是每一個人都要你知道他的概念就是你首都是台北市還是雙北都要算市你如果說台北市有進來新北市也沒進來一定大家一定更挑那我請問一下這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
4991.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5001.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
雙北啦 雙北有哪些哪一類的公務員哪幾類公務員都想要逃離雙北想要調到別的地方你有沒有概念雙北喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5006.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5023.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
是雙北做什麼套路的 他應該是公務人員他很想要調去中南部的如果調不走的 都會找名義代表說可以把我們調回去中南部你說的那個有可能是警消吧對 就是警消他為什麼要去中南部 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5029.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5049.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
有些是絕對有些是相對南部這方面的loading會比較少的就是因為雙北高樓大廈跟江湘熱油風險係數比較高這一塊對你們來說這個有在思考這些的加級要更多嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5050.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5074.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
針對景蕭的部分從以前到現在一直有所謂的景情加擠 繁重加增沒有 我是說這個雙北啦你說所有的公布另外沒有啦 就是景蕭啦景蕭有啊 本來就是六都的部分都有一套很嚴謹的制度不是六都啦 就雙北啦我們是用六都來算因為我們有台北市的想要調回去台南市嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5076.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5092.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
他如果都不走,他就死去找人家找什麼他自己也知道他分手不夠,就很多警校他覺得他自己年輕警校他也知道他分數不夠嘛總是父母啊,都會想說,我剛好回來故鄉啦我剛好在台北,沒人照顧啦,怎麼樣怎麼樣理由一大堆啦,他就是因為雙白業務比較繁重啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5099.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5121.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我說請這個人事總署思考一下像這種東西怎麼留住人在雙北這第一個第二個我們很多公務員剛考上的時候可能各單位任用公務員大學畢業考公務員最想都要想要到中央機關因為他到中央機關以後叫長官 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5122.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5142.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
到去縣市政府 到去公所的時候好 都大到不妙的 都坐頂館可以的 可能是他們學長也是可以的就對了好 那這一些公所的我現在就問公所 公所的公務人員你知道公所的公務人員流動率高還是低啊其實流動率不高 因為他要找頭腦派出好 那公所有沒有哪一類的公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5151.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5154.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
差不多做一兩年他就想要快點賺那這些人有沒有考慮再給他加點薪水讓他心無旁騖 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5169.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5190.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
加薪的部分我們是用整體的角度除非它是在偏遠地區 很偏的我們有另外讓他來額外的加級不然一般土木的就是土木的那你們那個加級表不是可以動嗎有啦 最近我們有在討論其實用這個機會 委員報告就是說針對土木工程因為外面的營建的薪水比較高 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5198.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5226.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
官媒做啦我們有做一些努力就是政治專業家籍還有他的留任獎金你如果做一年第二年之後你給他三萬你如果做三年第四年之後一年給他五萬我們都有做 還有他的獎金會扭開那是我們定義的同歸那他有技師建築師資格的這個有家籍嗎沒有 請教訓民沒有我建議要啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5227.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5253.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
因為喔 蠻多六都的都發局啊負責建造 省造這些單位啊他一些人都有建築師資格那他每天就在那邊發那些照嘛其實他去外面當建築師更好賺他就是想要公務員資格那你把他好好留住啊他有這一些專門職業技術人員證照考慮一下考慮一下 要把他們留下來看這個加級表可以調整一下沒有啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5254.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5265.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
好啦 你們回去研究啦 不跟你講第二個 最近怎麼會有那什麼公立醫院的醫師啊什麼加班一年九百幾塊那是怎麼回事啊我覺得他的呈現的方式大概應該是一般會的那種啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5276.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5301.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
執班會 特勤病院都不可能在蘇聯的台南機密沒有 是說公立的公家的特勤病院看它的基金也它有一套內部的一個機制所以就會有很多的雖然都是公家機關每一個醫院的執班會應該是不可能的就弄到弄到這個醫師他就年輕他也不可以執班以前醫界很簡單年輕人要執班執班可以賺多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5306.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5327.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
現在那個值班 什麼一小時九百幾個他就說這樣我幾期了 我不值班啊那就會造成可能急診啊 各式各樣的這個醫師人力不足嘛那我有看你們的報告也寫說你們要對這些公立醫療機構的這些人的專業家籍的數額要調整嘛這個是做法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5332.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5360.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我今年其實是已經外掉了因為這個部分坦白講我們現在有各類型的人物各類型的那樣扮演的角色你想說在公家機關的這些公職的醫師還有護書護書 他的業定費都差不多一兩百塊到一千五百六我們也都會逐漸的去看看整個人力供需的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5361.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5375.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
會去調整好 我是建議這樣因為你們很有可能有人反應你們就去檢討你像我剛才問你的土木的建築師 土木技師你就可以去檢討嘛檢討之後說這個立委在問 要不要調整一下另外一個立委來說我看那個也要調 你就去想 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5381.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5397.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我覺得這樣啦 就是按照公序啦就是說奇怪 這個類科啊現在報考人數怎麼真的越來越少然後呢有一些奇怪 都大量要調動就幾位都會想要照 幾位都會想要照可能年輕人他來做幾年他發現說可以照 趕快來照就是要申請調動那他要申請調動的時候呢用人機關發了函來給這個原來的機關嘛我們現在有一個規定說你要不要趕快告訴人家 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5411.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5430.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
從這裡的跡象應該可以顯示哪一些類科需要在這些東西上做調整那這個我覺得人事單位你們要有一個監測的計畫就是監看 看這個東西到底是注意數字的變化然後趕快來做因應 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5431.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5453.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
其實我委員報告其實我們做兩件事第一件就是每一年我們會去看每一個直系的流動力的問題然後我們大概會五年會重新再做深入的一個分析你想說土木那就是我們這幾年分析出來中央跟地方尤其是在鄉鎮公所做土木的 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5454.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5468.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
那個政治風險太高所以他差不多兩三年他就要走要走之後 他走一段是去民間 公共機關到花園裡面最少有三分之一到一半 又停課 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5470.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5494.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
定課分化來中央因為中央比較安全中央比較安全地方風險比較高我們都有做這樣的一個分析所以我們從那個分析裡面我們會去做一些待遇的調整或者其他的配套甚至我們也跟考試院考選部去溝通你想說今年各課土木的入期率差不多要50% |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5496.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5518.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
以前不太管因為欠了很多所以我們要去合調入企率一定要拉高不然這個人力切口一直越來越大其實我們都是長期性的有些是每年有些是兩三年有些是五年會做一個不同層級的分析那這些離職了 調動了你們有再去跟他們座談 問卷了解說他們有什麼要做嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5526.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5528.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
土木的我們會拜託那個公共工程委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5544.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5565.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
原來他待了那個機關的他的直接的主管問卷也許可以從那裡開始比如說一方面他可能講說這原來這個要離開這個人他個人的問題可能是一個原因那第二種可能就是說對這個位置人常常要離開原因是什麼就是說這一些了解完之後也許你們比較好做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5566.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5583.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
委員報告啦 其實那個離子我都有請他做一個離子問卷啦但是有的 不好意思 都要說家庭因素啦大家家庭因素 都要等於孝順父母啊他是沒有寫到那裡有啦 是都寫家庭因素有啦 問卷我都有沒有就是說除了他本人啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5584.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5590.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
他直接上去的那個長官 最清楚 他是科員你就問他的股長 問他的科長 大家知道狀況因為如果你不記名的話 這些人會願意寫說對啦 我這位差不多兩年就換了 都會換人他們大家找的理由 我跟你們中央說 答案是這樣 所以你們要注意你去問那個個人 他當然給你的理由 他年高他就要找他70年 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5607.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5619.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
可是那個他的長官因為怕下面沒有人所以他一定會寫實話這一塊你們再加強一下讓你們比較後面比較好做決策好 謝謝你 謝謝謝謝王一川委員的質詢為了大家的安全身體健康我都給您控制在85分貝以下超過85這個會影響你的耳朵 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5637.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5663.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那其實今天你看我們這個二氧化碳是1643 這也不對超過1000的話頭會痛 會想嘔吐這個溫度又好像太低這個是1643就超過六成 超過1000這可能委員會這個地方也要特別注意一下這可能每一個委員會都沒有注意這個啦所以我在主持 你看大家都很平和因為很快超過85個接下來就我們羅志強委員來詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5673.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5686.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
謝謝主席有請人事長請人事長委員長早安人事長早請問人事長知道什麼是十大建設有哪十個建設是蔣經國十大對 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5690.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5718.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
大概高速公路嘛 中鋼 中船中鋼 中船 中正國際機場機場 大概是以交通為主體的啦以交通為主體 還有一些產業的還有就是以交通為主體的嘛陸海空嘛 還有中港嘛台中港還有蘇澳港石化工業核能發電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5720.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5727.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
我想請教一下任市長你知道當時這個十大建設對我們台灣帶來什麼樣的效益 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5731.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5757.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
那就是孩子要當大人就是一個政府引領一個國家要轉型一個很重要的重大的投資對 第一個是抵抗當時石油危機帶來的經濟不景氣是短期面長期就是你說的當大人就是說把台灣創造現代化的一個基礎建設然後也改善我們的投資環境包括鋼鐵造船石化工業都可以提高我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5757.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5782.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
一些原料的自主度降低對外的依賴的程度為我們的工業轉型奠定非常好的基礎所以台灣今天的所謂的經濟奇蹟跟這個十大建設基礎建設有非常高度的關係對不對一定是非常有關那我想請教您你覺得十大建設最大的工程有哪些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5785.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5808.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
大概孫益賢還有我們中綱那個趙耀東當然帶頭的大概是我們蔣經國前總統當然這裡面默默奉獻的會更多人默默奉獻更多的是哪一些人 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5810.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5829.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那位都沒出名 他就漸漸做了我跟人事長說 就是你啦你知道嗎就是跟你一樣奉公守法 兢兢業業為國家服務打拼的公務員 對不對沒有這些文官他沒有辦法執行這些政務官的政策對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5830.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5847.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
公務人員本來就是一個國家安定穩定還有發展一個非常非常重要的因素可是他們平常很少被highlight出來沒錯他們是默默在做就是無名英雄無名英雄就當年 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5848.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5876.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
你會發現說除了一些優秀的政務官專業的一些我們講國營事業經營者還有就是一些非常優秀的文官專業認真然後忠誠然後為我們國家建設來打拼的公務員是他們打造今天台灣堅實的一個所謂的基礎建設跟經濟基礎那我再問你知道現在台灣其實我們的經濟產業裡面重中之重是高科技產業對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5879.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5901.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
目前大家從十年前的自動性產業那這五六年就是直接就跨到半導體部分那當然未來還是會以AI為主體的一個產業然後它會延展出來比如像光通訊還有量子運算的相關的領域的還有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5904.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5932.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
醫療科技的部分我覺得是台灣非常有機會的一個區塊那其中有一個我們講就是說等於是台灣高科技產業的孵化器就新竹科學園區包括台積電當年在電機的時候也是你剛剛講的那些包括孫玉璇 李國鼎很多優秀的政務官那打造這些所謂的我們講高科技的所謂的搖籃還是有一群無名的英雄默默無名的英雄是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5935.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
5959.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
你剛講過了嘛我提到從工研院出來的這一些人坦白講那一個機關對台灣來講很重要工研院然後這裡面大概大家耳熟能詳的就是孫益謙以前在台電嘛後來有李國鼎嘛 KT嘛還有相關的這些人我覺得他always在這個領域會 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
5962.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
5971.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
給大家坐標一個非常無可期待的一個位置覺得市長講得很好我為什麼要問你這些事情知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
5972.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6001.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
因為你會看到在那個年代當中其實第一個我們整個社會的景象是這樣有一些非常優秀有遠見有潛在力有魄力的政務官然後帶著一群有專業有熱情為國家奉獻的公務員所以兩個合作起來打拼打造了今天台灣非常堅實的不管是產業的基礎還是我們講說是工業的基礎乃至於經濟發展的基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6003.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6011.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
當時的公務員說實在的話任市長你也是一路公務員上來對不對公務員在當時應該還算是一個算是還蠻光榮的行業對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6014.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6036.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
穩定啦 光榮是覺得就是奉獻國家的一個蠻好的一個途徑非常好我跟人事長講我當兵退伍我也考上公務員考到高考分派到公平教育委員會當時我印象非常深刻當我回去跟爸爸媽媽講我考上公務員之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6036.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6052.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我爸爸那开心的样子我相信任市长你应该有经历过这个过程吧没有 我被骂为什么要进国家警官代表你的能力很好这个你的父母亲不希望你当公务员是这个意思吗我要讲一件事拉回来一个重点 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6053.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6077.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
就是事實上在過去的我們的所謂的政治環境或是政府環境裡面公務員是很有光榮感的那時候國家也很照顧公務員那國家也很需要優秀的文官作為我們今天政府的整個支柱但是我想請問你跟過去比起來公務員還是一個吸引人的職業選擇嗎還是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6081.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6104.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
整體來講是啦可是有一些時空環境的不一樣現在年輕人他對他的工作的那種期待他很多人不願意選擇朝九晚五他希望他的上班時間可以更加的輕鬆你講這個我不是很認同我也不認為什麼叫時代會改變什麼樣的人的習性 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6105.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6120.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
你也可以講我在當兵退伍那一年我可能也不一定喜歡朝九晚五的工作啊如果自由自在又有好薪水又有好待遇又有好的退休保障的工作然後又有光榮感的工作我還是願意去做啊不要朝九晚五啊所以這跟時代無關 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6121.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6138.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
基本上有一個比較彈性自由的工作環境那是每個時代都會有人嚮往的可是為什麼以前我就是問你一件事跟以前 跟20年前 跟30年前不用講 跟10年前好了 相比你覺得公務員還是一個吸引人的職業選擇嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6140.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6162.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
我觉得换个角度来看以前选择的机会会比较少所以很多人选择当老师公务人员因为生活比较安定现在选择也比较多所以我想以前选择也很多有些经济蓬勃发展的过程当中商业环境优渥还是很多不一样的选择 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6162.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6191.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那我拿一個客觀數據 因為講感覺不準嘛講個客觀數據嘛你知道在馬英九執政的時候他公務人員報考人數最高可以到多少人哪一年最高2009年啦50萬人啦50萬人 最高啦他平均大概保持到將近40萬嘛但是最高曾經到50萬嘛 對不對那你知道去年公務人員報考人數剩多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6195.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6214.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
16萬啦大概不到2016萬啦如果從這個國民黨執政把政府所有的50萬做最高點來算到16萬那是掉7成啦掉7%那就算是以所謂40萬來算那也掉到6成啦少了6成耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6215.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6231.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我想請問你這客觀數據到底展現出什麼樣的一個狀況公務人員今天為什麼報考人數大減你不要跟我講掃紙化台灣的掃紙化也沒有掃到說今天掉六成七成沒有 沒錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6232.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6253.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
沒有到七成 大概今年會到十一萬左右這樣的幅度還是蠻大的這樣的幅度大啊但是我也跟你講就是說也沒有到今天公務人員報考人數跌幅這麼深啊 沒錯吧我覺得比較客觀來講應該是整個經濟環境跟以前真的很不一樣我要跟我們的主計長講 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6256.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6280.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
你講說經濟環境講年輕人選擇職業的多樣化這些都是每個時代都有啦有經濟有繁榮有低迷台灣這麼多年來都是如此但公務人員報考的人數是一直在上升的那回頭為什麼要問這些事情為什麼跟你講一件事情請問你贊成今天國民黨主張的停侃年金嗎停侃公務員年金嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6281.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6305.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我覺得這個議題是要從國家整體的那種潛在的角度來看我跟任市長講 你知道我向來不為難你你現在主要的執政的政策不是你也不敢講出跟執政政策不一樣的方向但我今天很客觀告訴你如果今天我們公務人員報考人數還是一樣維持在40萬 50萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6307.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6321.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
你年金砍到一直砍他還是維持這麼多報考人數代表這個起碼有個客觀指標他還是一個吸引人的職業現在不是啊我們沒有反對今天所謂退休金或年金 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6322.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6344.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
今天要做適度的調整公務人員也沒反對他沒有國家一輩子付出奉獻那你所得替代一直砍砍砍現在砍到七成以下他們還是願意接受這些所謂的年金的調整可是今天非常卑微是什麼因為已經砍到傷筋動骨了我講白了 人事長你做人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6346.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6364.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
公務人員體系的所有的用人的狀況你是最了解的你真的我不勉強你說這句話但我相信心知肚明現在公務員其實光榮感是受很大的一個所謂的責損那他生活保障跟退休保障的待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6365.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6382.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
他也被現在政府尤其是退休保障有非常大的刪減 削減的時候他當然降低了他對職業的選擇的吸引力啊那為什麼我們今天要主張停砍停砍才是真改革因為你砍過頭你傷害的是國家啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6383.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6408.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
當年那麼多的文官奠基出來的台灣經濟的榮景今天你這樣去傷害他們不要講不公道你已經妨礙了國家的運作很多地方公務員也找不到老師也找不到人都有這個問題開始出現一個國家如果沒有好的文官來做支撐請問如何去因應多變的局面跟複雜的跟重要的國家建設跟政策呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6409.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6420.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
所以這邊我還是要再次呼籲一件事情真的也拜託今天我們的執政者或中央政府高抬貴手年金這個題目停砍才是真的改革 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6424.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6447.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
謝謝羅志強委員這個召委主持不只要讓意識順暢我要注意大家的健康我剛看到一直飆從1600降到1100那個二氧化碳要1000ppm你剛到1100那現在又上去了這奇怪的窗戶都已經打開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6450.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6462.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
超過一千六人會嘔吐 會頭暈 會胸悶我要注意大家的健康是不是再打開一個窗戶好不好因為那個又到一千四 這個就比較奇怪了是啊 因為今天大家都想想 你看人事長說到要打鼓 咨詢的啊大家說要睡著了這個就很怪 這個就很怪應該是這個議場這樣 主席有義務啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6480.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6496.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
不是我是真的是在盯那個CO2那個二氧化碳的等一下看看王宏威委員在質詢的時候會不會再降下來我們現在請王宏威委員尋答 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6508.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6529.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
謝謝主席提醒我之前還不曉得我們有這個CO2的這個監測以後我們應該要做有氧運動你一上台馬上降了已經降到1400一下那我們努力維持比較好的這個空氣品質讓大家都能夠神清氣爽一點好謝謝主席我們請人事長請蘇人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6534.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6535.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
委員長早好 委員長早有一個議題蠻重要的就是我們在上個會期通過了幾個對於包含現役軍人以及退伍軍人的一些優先法案 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6552.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6559.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
當然對於現役軍人的加薪非常遺憾而且我們還是要強力譴責即便是總統府公告之後但是行政院拒不編列預算但是同一時期我們所 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6567.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6595.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
通過的也就是對於退出的退役的上校以上子女的教育補助那這部分行政院有編列預算所以我也不曉得行政院為什麼採取一個很奇怪的雙標因為當時包含現役軍人的加薪以及對於退役上校以上子女補助教育補助事實上我們是同時通過的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6596.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6614.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那麼行政院選擇性的來編列預算好 那所以這個有關於退役上校以上子女教育補助已經經過總統府公告而且我也特別去查你們也有編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6615.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6633.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
然後我們退府會事實上所通過的這個預告的發起辦法裡面呢也還特別強調是今年8月底就應該執行那當然這個我們雖然它的其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6635.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6649.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
他的對象不像是現役軍人嘉興這麼廣但是無論如何這是我們對於這個退休退役的上校以上尤其是當時是上校退休的好的一個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6652.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6670.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
的一個幫助那現在以現在的進度來講聽說是卡在我們人種這邊那我想請問一下為什麼我們人種為什麼到現在因為如果你這邊OK的話人種OK的話行政院照理講應該會核定這個退府會這個辦法所以我想請問一下人種的考慮是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6679.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6694.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
我謝謝委員給我這個時間因為人總不會卡這種案子因為之前不會卡我們之前一直在跟退伍會跟教育部在溝通就是說當要處理那個子女教卜的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6696.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6723.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
我們必須要同時考慮到進攻教這些退役的軍人還有教師還有公務人員那後來經過整個我們精算之後退伍費這裡大概需要一年大概五千多萬嘛對 當時我們也有算過這個大約需要的經費教育跟公務人員的部分加起來大概1.8%大概一年增加的額度大概2.38%那2.38%坦白講 預算金額是不大 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6724.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6752.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那屬於中央的部分會中央來支付現在唯一比較有問題的就是有些地方政府他地方政府要編列這個預算來支應這一個部分所以現在整個案子還在我們外交國防法務處那邊所以那個人事長的意思就是說如果把公教人員也納進來的話Total全部加起來是2.38億 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6755.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6761.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
對不對 2.38億人長的意思說其實這個金額是可以可負擔的 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6761.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6780.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
可是現在問題是在地方政府的部分因為屬於地方政府的部分地方政府我們必須要去協商因為大家也知道地方政府你額外要請沒有錯我知道因為對於地方政府來說地方政府現在最擔心的就是常常是中央請客然後是地方買單其實非常非常多所以這個地方政府的財政是確實可以去考量的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6791.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6807.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
在考量所謂的就是說把公教人員也加進來之前我也想跟人事長做一個溝通為什麼我們會優先優先對於退役上校的子女先做補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6808.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6820.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
因为来我们来看一下我们也去查过公教人员呢因为公教人员有他的退休办法强制退休办法基本上呢他的强制退休呢是年满65岁 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6822.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6846.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
而且是任職滿五年但是對軍人他比較不一樣軍人的強制退休事實上就是說他如果在職務上他沒有辦法再晉級的話事實上他就必須退休所以相對軍人的退休的年齡事實上是比公教人員低很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6847.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
6862.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們今天來看 如果說我們看公教人員平均的退休年齡男性跟女性大概都是59歲上下平均年齡 平均退休年齡但是如果我們看到上校級的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
6863.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
6880.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
上校級的退休年齡他就是在50歲以下大概將近49歲所以就是已經就是比他還年輕10歲就必須要退休所以這也是為什麼當時我們要推出這個修法最主要的就因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
6881.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
6910.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
如果你是將軍退休其實那個時候他的子女說實在已經大部分並不需要教育補助了因為他的年齡的關係但是很多的退役上校那個時間正好是他壯年的時候他又必須強制退休所以這個是我們必須要跟人種去做這樣的溝通我是認為說既然我們在明年行政院也編列了預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
6911.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
6940.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
退府會也把這個發起辦法也通通都修好了那麼我們至少要讓他明年可以正式的開始上路那您剛剛講的對公教人員我在這邊也感謝任總把公教人員也把他納入來考量現在唯一的是希望就是跟地方政府來做溝通因為公教是必須要地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
6940.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
6948.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
也要出錢所以也像我們現在不是在修正才化法我們一直在講就是說如果行政院把才化法把中央跟地方之間的權責能夠講得更清楚而且說實在這次會講說給地方這麼多錢然後你地方沒有分擔什麼相關的業務但是事實上我剛才講的就是過去長期以來 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
6967.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
6986.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
中央請客中央有很多的政策一下去都是地方在買單因為我知道人事長其實跟很多的地方的縣市首長也很熟我相信他們也一定有這樣抱怨尤其在財政比較困難的縣市所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
6987.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7008.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我支持剛才人事長所講的把它擴及到公教人員我講就是說尤其像這個我們軍人在你退休的時候是壯年然後你最需要用錢的時候你又可能還要去找其他工作但是小孩又在就學這個時候政府應該要給予 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7011.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7033.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
照顾尤其我们现在讲国防任性国防任性我们现在这么缺兵对不对这么缺兵那如何能够让军人认为国家真的可以照顾到你的这个家庭你也可以都能照顾子女的教育也都能够照顾好所以那么任市长我想请问那你们什么时候可以核定呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7036.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7065.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
這個核定權應該不是在人總目前還在行政院外交國防法務處當然但是現在說卡在人總沒有卡在人總因為人總沒有不會去卡人家的我們都是在協助人家去把一些事情趕快更順暢不過這裡利用這個機會跟委員提一下當初公務人員他可以退休子女教卜 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7065.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7085.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
它本來是在它的月退休奉要25,000以下後來就是調到28,000可是在上效的部分因為我們有初步推估上效的它的一個月退休奉大概接近5萬左右兩邊有一點落差所以為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7086.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7100.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
橫平性的考量所以那時候上校指你的退伏的部分我們就是在整個年改制度的設計裡面有做一些設計現在的時空環境不一樣我想會大家再來對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7102.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7122.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
所以人事長的意思也是說我們現在讓軍人就是退役軍人上校以上能夠補助子女教育補助所以我們現在行政院的政策方向也是讓公教人員同一個這個值等的也把他拉上來是不是也一樣就是也一樣做這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7139.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7159.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
提高到五萬塊其實我要講的就是我們現在因為剛才也有很多委員關心年改的問題我們在年改裡面其實就已經一國好幾制了 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7160.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7187.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
其實就已經一國好幾制這為什麼在講說尤其這個所得替代率的部分比如說我們願意給軍人軍人所得替代率比較好那這個其實也是就是考慮到軍人付出而且以我們現階段大家希望能夠更多的這個軍人現在大家不要說現在連木兵也有問題不要增兵然後再加上不要說這個什麼散兵問題連木兵都有問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7190.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7217.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
所以我覺得在這是人事長所考慮的我同意我同意但是我希望這個既然第一個立法院通過總統公告然後那個行政院編列預算然後那個退府會也發起辦法全部都已經都已經完備在這樣的狀況之下至少至少明年明年1月他一定要上路一定要上路人事長同不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7220 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7225.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
這個決定請不是在我這裡我知道啦但是你的意見很重要但是我們公教人員我們也會支持啦我們也會支持就如同剛才任市長所講的2.38億我們多多照顧一下我們的軍人尤其最近新的國安問題就是教師的 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7244.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7273.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
这个已经是完全的缺人了就已经有人才荒非常大的一个人才那以我时间外我只问一件事我再问一件事情就是我们10月10号开始上路的就是这个身心架我刚才讲就说像教师人员他也有我们现在出现了国外问题教师难求教师难找因为大量的缺 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7274.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7290.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
教師使得現在第一線的教師他的壓力特別特別的大他的時間也特別特別的長所以很快也不是說很快現在教師就成了另外一個血汗的產業那我想請問一下那麼身心調試價已經正式上路了嗎11月10號 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7296.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7319.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
好 那到目前為止 人事長所了解這個身心條是這樣上路之後現在公務員敢請嗎 有請假嗎我跟委員報告大概我們第一年我們大概會每一個月請各個我們會去統計這個資料在每一個月的20號 那目前因為今年10月今天是10月29號 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7320.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7348.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
所以我们在下一个月的20号会统计大概每一个月的20号我们会去做一次统计的资料做一次统计看各个对 看看多少人请那个身心调试假然后随时做动态性的调整我们在网站上做揭露因为我觉得这样资讯透明公开会比较好一点对 因为其实很多人都认为身心调试假是需要的但是因为它并入试假又感觉好像 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7350.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7374.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這個好像有點不夠到位所以就是說我們現在每個月都會去做一個統計這樣也很好了讓我們各單位你是各單位還是全部全部把它一起統計我們全國會做一個統計我覺得你們也應該用各單位來做因為我們也要了解一下各單位會不會有哪一些單位要請身心調適價特別多 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7376.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7399.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
這也是我一種監看喔基本上大概行政院會二級機關然後二十二個縣市政府先這樣因為假如每一個單位它由縣市政府再往下會有二級 三級機關構這樣可能數量會太多對 我覺得你做一個大致性的這樣子我們也比較知道哪一些單位的我們的公務人員我們必須要多關心一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7403.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7420.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
那我觉得当然有一些比如说是比较特殊性例如像现在就是我们在防疫的部分非洲猪瘟防疫也许防疫人员他们可能身心就比较压力会比较大一些他可能有的是有季节性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7420.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7430.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
有的是有事件性的有的突發性等等讓我們能夠多關心一下我們基層公務人員他們現在的身心狀況所以我覺得到時候也拜託身心價也就教職人員的部分你們來想想看怎麼樣讓我們可以去關心第一線的教職人員我剛才在講的這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7444.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7469.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們這麼多在教育我們把我們的孩子放到我們的學校裡面我們當然希望我們的老師是身心健康的我從以前當議員的時候就有很多老師學校跟我講老師都在吃百憂解所以我的意思就是說我們應該對這第一線多關懷一些多關懷一些比如說我講的防疫人員現在他是因為有事件性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7470.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7496.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那如果教室它是長期的一年四季一年365天它都有這樣的一個身心應該要紓解的問題那就值得我們更加重視人事長你是要補充這個我看你現在笑得很開心沒有就是教室的部分我們會請教育部去把這樣的資訊也跟我們一樣我們公務員的部分我們會處理教育的部分我們會通知教育部請教育部好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7497.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7525.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
好 謝謝王宏威委員你看又降了300所以這個窗戶打開是有用的來 接下來請吳思瑤委員詢答那我先做一個會議程序的預告我們稍後在翁曉琳委員詢答完畢以後休息五分鐘那我們現在請思瑤委員好 辛苦的召委感謝請任市長請任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7530.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7556.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
委員長今天有兩個主題跟您交換一下意見非常多委員都關心身心調試假終於10月10日上路了作為在立法院一路催生身心調試假的立委我從教育部門推到公務部門當然下一個努力我們希望進入民間的企業那這個制度現在現行是併入試假我當然認為先求有再求好 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7557.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7571.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
那我也非常鼓勵也要拜託勇敢的去宣傳我們告訴所有的公務同仁不要讓自己的權利睡著了請了身心調試假大家要記得主觀館們不能夠對請身心調試假 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7575.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7599.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
的同仁們貼上任何歧視性的標籤反而應當要給更多的關懷這就是我們為什麼設置了身心調適價這個進步性的新價別那當然從公部門推到私部門一向以來都是我們在各項權益扶植的一個路徑公部門先行 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7600.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7604.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
推廣到私部門下業我們自己來做好的典範 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7605.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7633.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
但是我看到這個消息跟新聞我真的是很開心因為育嬰留庭假明年要上路優先勞動部啟動了勞動部推動育嬰留庭以日來申請家庭照顧可以可以一小時來機動彈性的幫助這些家裡有小朋友的這些年輕爸媽們 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7635.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7663.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
這個制度勞動部先行了開始從企業來推我們工部門是不是全面適用軍公教全面適用我們軍公教都沒有任何限制我本來就本來就已經擺時間的方式在那現在新制以日跟時更機動更彈性更貼心軍公教全面民間有的工部門也可以推對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7664.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7671.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
事實上就是公家機關先推然後民間再跟著我們這樣推是這樣嗎我們是走到前面 勞動再跟過來如果是這樣 我們就要宣傳到大陸了因為這個大新聞是我們勞動部在前幾個禮拜在院會的通過那我關心到我們的卓院長也特別在院會上說 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7690.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7703.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我們給這個福利給年輕爸媽在私部門而軍公教也一體試用那很好公私部門一起來做我們讓制度更優化讓育嬰留庭都能夠更友善下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7705.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7721.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
昨天立法院有一個好消息就是司法法治委員會我們修正的考積法昨天三讀通過了透過這個考積法的三讀通過我們可以讓公務員的育兒這個育嬰留庭不會再延緩 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7723.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7749.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
延後他的升遷的機會這是一個進步性的立法我們終止制度性的歧視讓照顧不再是懲罰昨天通過了也謝謝人事總署謝謝我們司法法制委員一起把制度真的更人性但是法也修了這種彈性的價別也給了您認為對於現在育嬰留庭在公部門的執行您滿意嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7752.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7779.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我覺得各個公務機關他的法徵的法律的尊崇事實上都非常的到位可是我覺得我們還有一個要努力的就是要加強先導推廣因為每一個機關他對這樣一個新措施的一個認知可能會有一些差異性像以前我在財政部服務的時候我有一個同仁三年生了兩個小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7779.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7792.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
那就是異因留庭嘛那回來隔年我就把他升為課長那很好不會因為他異因留庭而給予他歧視性的對待就看能力看表現嘛 對不對那夏業 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7795.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7824.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
育嬰留庭也要性別平權我們要加強宣導讓大家有假就可以請大家也敢請制度上不會有歧視不會影響到他的升遷不會影響他的考級那我今天跟您探討性別平權男性公務員的育嬰留庭的優化制度這幾年來我們一再的推進譬如說110年起雙方就是男女雙方爸媽都可以申請育嬰留庭這是一個進步 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7825.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7847.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
然後呢在111年我們開始將育嬰留庭的津貼從六成薪到八成薪這也是一個大躍進大家覺得啊這樣我願意不會影響我的收入太多有一些起碼的保障所以確實我比較起來上路四年的新的優化的制度男性育嬰留庭的人數從2322增加到3633成長了55.79% |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7854.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7863.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
制度更進步男性也勇於育嬰留庭照顧小孩不再是只有女人的事數字看起來成長55.79真漂亮阿有教我 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7869.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7896.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
其實我要跟委員報告一件事受理是這幾宗男生請這是你今天報告裡面的受理議因留庭的部分比較多可是我這裡會跟委員補充像我們人種我們就有兩個科長科長 主管他也請議因留庭我們連主管就讓他在議因留庭而不會因為你是主管身份我不可以讓你去當然 任何的職別職等 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7897.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
7915.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
都有相同的權利嘛 對不對所以我們是以身作則然後建立標竿大家來模仿讓這些比較主觀管的他也敢請不影響升遷嘛但是我跟您討論性別平權看起來你們今天的報告數字說男性成長55.79很好 讓你嘔囉拍拍手下一頁但是呢你們沒有說的事實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
7923.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
7938.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
女性跟男性的育嬰流停還是回到一個女生照顧小孩是女人的一年所以比例起來男性去請的只有22.71%這是最高的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
7942.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
7967.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
女性是77.29換言之照顧生養的責任還是落在女性的身上是傳統的觀念在公務部門我就以育嬰留庭請假的性別也解讀到這樣子的一個現象下一頁我們對於男性也要投入生養的責任我就以育嬰留庭剛剛是1比4 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
7969.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
7991.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我們來看看這個產駕現在男生可以請陪產駕跟這個陪檢駕越來越進步男性在產前請駕跟女性自己是懷孕大肚子其實是一比一就是說年輕爸爸父母去做產檢去生我都覺得我有責任我要參與這是人生光榮的一刻可是生完之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
7993.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8014.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
照顧小孩又回到我剛剛說的一比四還是女性在公職的現場女性去請育嬰留庭男性就比較保守這是一種性別的失衡當然有傳統的觀念這個部分你們怎麼樣在制度上再去宣導再去給幼嬰鼓勵爸爸也要育嬰留庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8017.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8024.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
製度在那嘛我覺得我們還是要再做先導的工作還要持續的另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8026.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8045.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
也有一些現實的情況一般來講有時候因為先生進到職場的時間也可能比較早一點他的月薪待遇可能也比較高女性的他待遇可能相對的問題所以這就是另外一個問題啦為什麼男生跟女生的薪水我會去討論什麼人照顧孩子這樣會好有些是 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8051.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8061.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
董事長說話要洗腦啦不要在這裡挑起另外一個性別的男生的薪水就那麼高女生好像薪水就那麼少好像這是一個通 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8062.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8092.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
也不是通案啦我只是在說有這個現象啦有一個現象因為本來就是你在總體的看起來大概是一比四所以我們現在之所以讓雙父母雙方都可以育嬰留庭而且同樣從六成星到八成星都是希望可以打破這些東西就是男女都父母親都一起請嘛我提出這個問題就好好去思考怎麼樣可以讓我們的男性更勇敢承擔責任好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8092.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8116.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
我們來比日本我們過去都說日本的男人大男人比台灣男人嚴重得多台灣男人相對是比較大型的我身為台灣女人我深感幸福但是你看看國際比一比喲育嬰留庭在日本十年日本男性去育嬰留庭的成長49%女生台灣十年成長9.2% |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8118.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8129.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
如果是以倍數來講日本十年男生去勤育嬰留庭成長16.8倍台灣十年只成長不到兩倍我就說 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8131.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8148.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
那社會觀念來說日本的男尊女卑可能是比台灣更有一些些他們很羨慕台灣的自由女性的地位的提升但是如果以育嬰流行在日本這是日本的公務員我還沒有比勞工喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8149.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8177.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我手上还有劳工的数字但今天您是人事总长所以看到日本做得到他一定有其他的制度诱因他一定有更多可以做到更到位的如果真的推动性别平权在生养的这件事情的友善职场我们还有很大的空间要进步跟努力把这个问题带回去好吗好那最后一个我占用一分钟很多委员都在说铁饭碗不再热门 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8179.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8202.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
確實報考的人數腰斬現在大概十幾萬、十六萬左右但是我希望在A黨的委員不要提錯解方我們如果要讓鐵飯碗真的是鐵飯碗就要保障現職的公務同仁他的福利福祉不能夠受到任何的剝奪我們想方設法這幾年來我們為軍公教調薪了四次14% |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8204.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8222.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
但是呢還是有減壓跟友善職場進步的空間照顧現役公務員是我認為您作為人事總長我作為監督執政的國會議員我們一定要優先照顧我們的現役工作同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8224.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8239.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
以前說勞役不均如果說在野黨的委員提錯解方是要把年金停侃要把年金走回頭路讓我們的公務人員的這個破可能16年就會破產 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8240.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8265.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
教育人員可能13年後就領不到退休金影響的是現役工作人員的權益那麼鐵飯碗就更不是鐵飯碗了因為退休金會被在野黨的委員亂搞惡搞現役的公務人員領不到退休金就會成為一個負面的惡性循環公務同仁的這個工作不再具有吸引力 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8266.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8295.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
所以說這個問題我要再次提出來不要下錯解方給錯藥如果讓年金走回頭路改革中斷造成年金的破產這才是對現役的公務人員最不公平的地方我們要大聲說我們要勇敢說因為要為所有的在場所有的同仁確保退休金人人領得到 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8296.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8308.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
所以呼籲在野黨的委員 司法法制委員會的同仁三思再三思謝謝獨眼俠主席謝謝好 謝謝吳司堯委員接下來請你看 司堯委員他質詢完以後降到918 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8319.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8326.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
已經合乎標準了我都在照顧你們的健康接下來請我們最專業美麗的翁小玲委員來謝謝主席這個莊昭偉辛苦了身體有樣但是還是非常的敬業然後這個從開刀第一天之後馬上就來 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8342.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8353.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
我們宮廷會這裡簽到然後今天又主持會議真的非常的佩服謝謝向您致敬那接下來我要先請人事長請人事長火雄鵝肉老家好處理委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8357.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8372.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
好 任市長早那麼剛剛吳斯堯委員講說很擔心這次的軍公教人員退休金的停砍的修法會影響到限職人員的退休金的保障我想請問任市長您會有這樣的擔憂嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8377.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8393.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
我覺得當初設計聯改本來就是在整個政府財政的一個穩定的基礎底下然後讓整個我們的財政更加的永續因為大家也都知道你只要很簡短的回答我你會擔心嗎 現職人員會領不到退休金嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8397.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8420.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
當然大家會有這種疑慮如果說你擔心的話你會同意把你的退休金的一部分去撥給現職人員嗎你什麼時候要退休我隨時都可以退休所以您是很願意奉獻你的退休金去給現職人員的我覺得我們是在政府機關服務本來就遵循政府的遊戲規則在運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8422.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8448.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
非常佩服任市長您的大氣您很願意把您的退休金其中蠻大的一部分可以貢獻給現職人員我們接下來來談另外一個問題最近行政院有公布了行政院與所屬中央及地方各機關學校公務人員違法賦錄的建議懲處原則包含赴港澳的建議懲處原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8450.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8463.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
請問這份規則是出自人事總署之手嗎這規定是你們所草擬的嗎就是陸委會開會決定了我們來發文你們發文所以裡面的所有的建議的事項都是你們寫的是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8466.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8487.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
就是條文整個都陸委會他拍板確定了然後我們再轉給所有人所以包含什麼樣的情況然後要記一個過或者一次記兩個過等等的這些都是陸委會決定的跟你們無關你們只是配合發文是這樣嗎陸委會政策決定的什麼叫政策決定就是這份是誰擬的嘛這份是誰擬的嘛當時是誰提出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8492.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8504.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
我们是按照陆委会的话我们转给所有的签证机关好 所以这个就不是出自于人种之手我只是要确定这件事情这个成熟规则是不是你们所写的 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8506.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8523.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
會寫的轉給我們我們再轉給所以對於人種的立場你們就招單全收你們都沒有去反映這個這樣子的一個建議懲處規則基本上已經明顯違反法律保留原則請問這樣的一個建議懲處原則它的法律依據在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8523.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8547.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
我們有找相關的政府機關的同仁來表示意見過然後所以呢認為沒有違法因為也要尊重主管機關陸委會的他最後的一個所以你們現在已經變成是陸委會的下屬機關了也不是下屬因為這是一個政府機關之間的分工的問題可是問題是說這個很明顯就已經違反法律保留原則了我們看一下那個兩岸人民關係條例的第九條 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8549.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8565.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
從第九條的第三項到第五項了這邊列了第三項 第四項這非常清楚檢認實質等級警監四階以下未涉及國家安全利益或機密之公務員及警察人員赴大陸地區就不會受到 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8566.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8594.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
這個之前就是他每次去大陸都必須要申請許可在我們兩岸人民關係條例第九條第三項寫得很清楚在第四項裡面也有講到對不對你具有這個第四項的這些身份的人到財富大陸港澳然後才可能必須要經過申請那你們現在的所建議的這樣的一個懲處規則是無差別的未來公務員他即便是可能一職等二職等他都要受到這樣的規範合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8595.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8610.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我跟委員說明一下就是整個的思考邏輯就是你沒有違規就不會有懲處的這個問題而不是不能去的問題你如果都按照遊戲規則什麼叫做違規您看看我們的兩岸人民關係條例裡面的違規是指什麼意思現在只是說我有沒有要去之前我要先拿到那個許可對不對 你法律裡面明明就規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8622.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8648.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
實質等以下的不需要經過許可就可以去去了大陸之後他有沒有洩漏國家機密有沒有違反其他的這個相關的這個法規這是另外依照其他的法律來處理這跟你要申請進去許可這是兩件事啊一個是進去嘛 一個是回來嘛要進去有些是有些是要到內政部申請有些是要經過陸委會嘛那我現在的意思是說還有主管機關的問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8650.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8677.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
任市長請您仔細看看兩岸人民關係條例裡面講什麼實質等以下 緊接四階以下的不涉及國家安全利益或機密公務員員是排除在外他們不需要去申請許可就可以進入大陸地區你現在是認為說以後一般的什麼股員 科長 客員 記錄人員都要申請許可嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8680.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8697.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
我跟委員稍微說明一下大概兩岸條例是屬於陸委會規範的11以上的然後11以下的他又有授權移民署他去訂一些規範事實上只要進去原則上都要申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8698.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8727.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
你告訴我哪一條需要申請所以這些現在你們的概念就是現在只要是進入到公務機關的所有公務人員他都會涉及國家安全利益或機密所以全部都要一併的管制甚至於連公立學校的行政就是具有行政職務的這些校長 院長 系所主管或是乃至於什麼研究中心主任全部都要列管 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8728.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8733.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
你們現在的規定就是這樣是要申請 主要是要申請的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8736.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8760.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
刚才委员你提到的学校是兼行正职的才需要没有兼行正职的就不需要任市长我告诉你这会发生一个什么问题好吗你现在是不管是大学中学小学以后未来没有老师没有教授愿意兼行正职很快就会找不到系主任小学里面你也找不到各个什么组长 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8762.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
8771.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
教務主任大家沒有人要去兼行正職了就你的觀點你認為一個小學的體育組長他會涉及到什麼國家機密嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
8774.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
8794.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
一個音樂科的科主任或是科老師他會涉及到什麼樣的國家機密嗎我覺得人事長您今天作為行政院的人事總署的最高的長官你應該要勇於來捍衛所有的這些公務員的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
8797.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
8812.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
這不是講說你配合陸委會陸委會他我要講陸委會他本來的職責是要配合各個行政機關如果有人要出去大陸的時候他配合去辦理他不是你什麼現在都變成他的爪牙了 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
8813.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
8830.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
他要怎樣去限制怎麼管制因為我們現在行政院的每一個部會都有一些很明確的分工那這個法治的主管機關就是陸委會所以陸委會對整個法律條文還有一些規範我們必須要follow他的一個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
8831.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
8857.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
如果這樣的話人事總署的法務處可以廢掉了我不知道我回去會去查我們沒有法務處所以你們掌管這些什麼人事法規你們都沒有責任嗎今天人事長你說這樣的話讓我真的是非常心寒你說依據考機法怎麼處罰我看了半天我們考機法的規定你是依照哪一個考機法的規定你可以去做這樣的一個懲處規定你可以去做這樣一個懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
8860.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
8887.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
他如果不涉及到任 我就講一個很低階的警察一個小學的老師他可能只是兼了一個什麼體育組組長兼了某一個什麼職務或是一個大學教授他不過是兼了一個系所的主管他要他們現在連他們去都要受到規定都要受到這樣嚴格的規定這基本上是很不合理的我很希望就是說你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
8887.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
8915.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
真的要好好的去检讨对于你们的懈怠你们的职责我这次也会反映在你的预算上面另外我还要再加上另外还要再很快的问一个问题就是我们知道现在行政院的一些机关我们看到它的原额的编制都明显超过你们之前所讲的5%对于这个部分你们有没有什么看法怎么样让这些聘用人员的禁用比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
8916.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
8931.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
能夠下降像文化部環境部他們的聘用員額的比例都已經明顯的超高對啊文化部看26%的話11%點多都是已經明顯高過你們行政院自己公佈的經用員額5% |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
8935.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
8957.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這一個我們在整個報告裡面也有初步去呈現就是因為這些聘用比例偏高的本來就是因為他的專業性我們沒辦法從考試直接來禁用所以我們會讓他聘用的顏額會增加多一點他不是一個普遍現象他是少數集中在某些部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
8958.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
8975.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我請仁總這裡提供給我一份資料我們看看這是不是一個普遍的現象我剛剛這邊只是列舉一些機關很多的機關基本上它的聘用員額都已經超過你們所訂的5%如果說真的有人員需要的話為什麼不直接增加它原來機關編制內的員額 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
8978.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
8997.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
這個部分的話我要求人事長您這邊一個禮拜之內可以提供一份報告給我就是說有關於各機關的現在這個聘用員額的禁用比例好不好就是麻煩就是要提供給我還有一個問題就是說這個之前有在講就是公務人員還有公教員現在有沒有領取 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9001.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9017.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
身份證戶籍等等要拒絕那麼我還記得當時也是在這個執行台上有問了人事長如果說有公務人員公教人員他們沒有拒絕你們會不會去追究他們的一些責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9018.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9037.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們本來就不會追究啊本來就不會追究上次有答覆委員就是不會追究啊是那為什麼現在又說是如果說不寫拒絕書的話會連結到他未來可能不能夠升遷然後不能夠調任他是適用在整個公務人員服務法的規範裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9039.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9061.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
他不簽這個違反他有什麼公務人員法規嗎他有因此是違反公務員服務法裡面的哪個規定嗎現在委員所指教的這一個部分是屬於陸委會他是兩岸人民條例的一些規範所以我們也必須要去遵循 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9063.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9088.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
任市長我還在講就是您是全中華民國最高的人事行政總署的長官你現在怎麼已經矮化到變成什麼事情都是聽陸委會的陸委會做的一些不合理的要求你們也都完全配合你知道你們這樣子的做法是傷了多少公教人員的心 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9089.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9116.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
你有沒有考慮到就接上而且它的影響我現在講的而且它的影響的效果會是什麼以後沒有尤其是在一般的學校裡面以後沒有什麼老師願意兼行政職了我想教育部那邊應該很清楚人事長你這裡也很清楚很多的公務員現在是不願意扛責任去接不管他是小主管 中主管 大主管他不願意去兼主管職的 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9118.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9147.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
你們搞得這麼嚴格以後就是整個機關裡面會沒有任何的人要來負擔更重要的公務還有教育的責任所以我希望你們回去檢討那以上 謝謝謝謝翁小林委員接下來請審發委員改書面那是不是翁昭偉先上來我把他問完好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9176.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9186.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
好 那現在先進行會議程序的宣告等會在莊瑞雄委員發言完之後呢我們就休息五分鐘好 接下來請莊委員發言好 謝謝昭偉有請我們任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9201.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9220.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我上來以後你看智慧儀板已經降到1000所以我來質詢大家身體都會很健康但是還是要針對問題來你那個人事總署本來我們是我記得我們上個會議原住民族碎石計一架 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9221.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9245.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
這個修法已經從假期從一天延長為三天這個意義重大但是以現在來看的話就是說這個社會跟族人對權力的認知其實也不太夠沒有辦法去落實那上一次我覺得質詢的時候我說我們的行事曆裡面應該清楚去標示遂時即宜假不要只附一個王子 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9246.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9261.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
目標當然就是說你政策要去做一個落實讓請假的人可以安心你告訴我沒問題 任市長你又跳票我委員報告啦因為原民會他這部分還沒有公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9262.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9287.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
我們有去找幾天他就要公告的嘛所以日期是哪幾天就沒辦法寫所以我們現在用替代的方案就是直接用網路Hyperlink過我確定了以後直接就到這個網址去查上面我委員答應的 召委答應的就是碎石祭那三天 稍後清澈嘛我有在答應的嘛但是到目前為止 延民會那個資料還沒給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9288.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9289.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
所以這個就機關的問題啦這個就機關的問題好不好 這個政策要去落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9319.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9335.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
是啊,你印好了,你印好了,你賣你的,所以你就空白在那裡。我們只好用錯過網站的方式,用替代的方式來執行。當然啦,機關之間其實有時候啊,你說園民會該什麼時候,那你就應該先跟他講。你在印的時候,你剛才在參加什麼?問題是說在什麼地方?還有罰寒。 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9347.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9359.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
原名叫打屁股啦其實這個攸關整個族人裡面他們在請假的時候讓他自己上班的一個單位這個客人就誰知道嘛說這時候隨時寄宜假這已經兩年通過了這變成國家的一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9364.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9386.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
讓他可以很安心好不好這個部分應該是機關之間應該是大家進一步去做一個溝通第二個我想上次我在質詢的時候有提到這個國際的一個警示就是說韓國的資料中心發生那一場大火這個公務機資料全失服務也都停擺 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9389.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9399.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
連韓國總統都出來講說這罐早就預期到有可能發生的事情那竟然讓它去發生了那我想要就教的就是說像我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9401.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9426.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
人事總署你掌管著高基民的一個資料那我們是不是有備援或者異地這樣的一個備份就是說我們建立一個完整資料備份跟異地的一個備援這部分人事總署家謝謝委員我做好事嗎事實上這個裡面分兩個部分一個是系統的備援對於就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9428.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9445.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
辦公室的基盤撬去另外一座基盤就開那是第一種第二就是資料備份就是這間韓國的主要就是資料備份你資料備份我以前在財政部我資料備份一定有3分我現在就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9448.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9465.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
電腦的部分 主機的部分 系統的部分我們有另外一組備份還有另外一組資料備份在中央新村我們有主機還有主流的備份所以你的部分就是說完整的資料備份還有異地的備份都有具備 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9466.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9482.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
所以不用煩惱 不用像韓國那樣賣 不會發生我也覺得韓國做到這樣 我也覺得很奇怪很韓國所以這個都是一個借鏡另外大家都知道說是這個AI大爆發那我們很多 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9482.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9501.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
的公務機關公務人員大家也都要去使用尤其是一些生成式的一個AI系統裡面大家會寫寫公文或者說去發文的時候甚至於問他很聰明但是我們最擔心的就是說你這個AI可以幫助這個行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9502.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9524.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
但是如果涉及到安全跟倫理的部分很有可能造成資料的一個外洩跟信任的一個危機我不知道我們人種這個地方針對於我們這麼多的一個公務人員尤其是我們政府部門也開了很多的一個課程這樣像這個公務人員很機密的東西把它丟到 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9529.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9541.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那個全部GPD好了 丟上去要做顧問要比較快要問問題要比較快那造成你整個機密我如果全部GPD我有後台 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9543.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9564.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
會有整個資料外洩有信任的一個風險我不曉得那個任市長你的看法我跟昭偉報告大概分兩個部分第一個是國科會他有定一個使用的指引就是所有的機關那我們人種基本上也是based on這樣的一個指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9565.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9585.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
等於就是一般開放型的open data的東西本來就是在雲端你可以去透過生成式AI無論是GPT還是其他的去蒙碼 你輸贏的事情但是到我們開發到我們公務機關有限的我們是採落地型的 直接在我們這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9586.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9607.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
現在第一個階段是這樣 第二個階段現在樹化部他也是在去建構一個Tri-AI的機制讓各個政府機關 以並駐一個大內網的概念讓所有政府機關就要用 不用讓大家機關各自去設立因為大家機關各自設立的成分會更高 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9608.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9624.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
管理的成本你那個答非所問我的意思就是說公務人員在使用這個AI的時候尤其啊我就跟他說你會比較手的我就給他機密文件給我寫一張之後給我等一天叫他給我生成 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9626.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
9637.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
這個都會涉及到你整個機密文件這個整個資料會有外洩的一個風險我在說的是在說什麼那是內控的事情什麼內控而已這不是只有內控就算是內控這個顯然就跟韓國那個一樣這個顯然是可以預見的那你的準備是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
9651.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
9668.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
基本上第一個我們可以做的就是把這些資料去做simulation的比對如果有的話就直接攔下來第二個是從他的交易紀錄裡面去查他如果再放在你這個生成系統裡面你們他在使用的時候你們攔得下來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
9669.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
9691.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
他也知道我們要做一個公文而已他也要等出去我們會有一個cross check的機制沒有問題我們一定要做那個不然出事我們發生事情我們也要有一些記錄去查詢這個非常重要這個非常重要我要先跟你示警就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
9696.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
9723.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
這個顯然也可以一定可以預見的要做好準備啦一定會發生的啊公務機關常常也在洩密太沒想說洩密公務機關啊外人怎麼去給你洩你的密又沒有人知道不是這樣子嗎所以現在都有洩密的風險更何況你用AI你用GPT你用生成式的AI哪有可能他沒有那個風險不會去增加不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
9725.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
9753.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
風險一定會增加但是我了解大部分的機關都有買一個偵測軟體叫DLP就是把所有可能有疑慮的這一些東西他第一層會攔截第二層是從記錄裡面去trace他有做什麼事情我覺得有高風險我們會把他調出來做分析所以我要跟你講就是說你們要本來就是要有制定指引嘛你這指引你一定要有嘛你使用的一個規範嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
9754.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
9764.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
這本來你就要去建置的你現在是去大量的訓練讓公務人員去使用讓他更方便思考大家也變聰明了但是我要提醒的就這一些風險好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
9767.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
9792.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
你一定要去做最後一個問題我來請教就是說牽涉到我們中央機關中央機構員工一般健康補助的一個我看你們這個標準你就看那個標準很有意思第一類政務人員中央三級機關以上的政府首長 司長相當等級以上的主管人員中央二級機關的你每年一次健康檢查是一萬六 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
9794.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
9814.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
你看看第二類40歲以上的公教人員還有連續服務滿一年的兩年就一次你繼續看第三類第三類我就含有意見未滿40歲且從事有危險安全及衛生顧慮工作的公教人員每三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
9816.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
9833.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
當然服務滿一年這合理啦你就變三千五這個就比較奇怪一點就是說那既然認為它是有危害安全跟衛生顧慮的這頂多算三年到一年你不覺得這樣的一個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
9837.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
9859.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
我不曉得任市長你的看法是怎麼樣這要公平 這個制度 健全這個制度這樣要公平我們任總這個地方是公務人力政策的一個整體的一個協調者你要負責去整合整個福利的一個資源規劃制度讓它更公平才對 不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
9862.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
9871.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
這點我跟委員報告 我們要跟保証會合調因為健檢要點是一定的剛才我跟委員說的是40歲以來40歲以下 但是他要考慮的風險 黑管的是不是那件事你不可以說一定的公教人員 公務人員 人力資源這本地人福利政策裡面 你制度本來就要把它弄得更公平不是這樣子嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
9895.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
9917.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
第三類 反而三千五你要提高而且他是有危險安全跟衛生顧慮的人你算三年一次第一類人一年是一萬六你這種有危害安全工作跟衛生疑慮的你反而三年才一次而且你錢還更少 三千五你這個邏輯在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
9919.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
9946.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
其實我要跟委員報告 因為這個費用的基準中央的部分應該是OK 但是地方我一定要跟地方去合調因為地方很明顯的人有可能會合作 所以要去算他的補償第三類不是只有地方啦中央地方都有啊 是嘛所以你就不要先給地方 中央也有啊我來解讀這個叫大小眼 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
9948.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
9969.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
越危險的 你正在三年那一屆以前正在那個金額 還在 還是更少其實你如果想想看 我們還規定到40歲很多公務人員其實進去20幾歲 還不到30歲就進去了那年輕公務人員 我在那看 大家都有 今天他沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
9971.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
9992.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
你會當到政務人員的年紀都比較大了年紀越大其實健康檢查裡面是不是用這樣的一個方式而且那個差距太大一年一次的一萬六三年一次的三千五這個邏輯我想不通其實最重要的就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
9995.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10008.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
要擔心的年紀都超過五十五到六十以上了你四十歲以來整體的健康狀況坦白講會比較好所以他的頻率還有額度會減低因為說這個 我要說啦景蕭啦夜班的人啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10014.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10039.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
機場的外勤人員那種工作強度高風險大的三年一次你真的覺得夠你真的覺得哪個第一類有的政務人員不要給我小便你知道嗎很多很高階的文官不是說他不應該保障他他的工作未必會比在第一線尤其涉及到危害安全或者警消夜班的人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10041.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10062.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
你去比較的時候 我怎麼比你跟我說的我都聽不懂的我委員報告啦 你說的那個高風險的我們現在已經在簽約當中了啦你跟考試院家 跟考試院這邊你們自己本身你們應該去建議去調整啦或者透過院計之間的一個政策協調機制來進行制度上的一個檢討啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10063.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10088.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
有啦 這次就是老委員在說的三年一回合我們這次已經要簽名的那就是改造整理一回合我們常常在說賴總統在講健康台灣這個其實也都是其中的一個一環尤其你們看到新年制度有 你們也知道不夠所以你們推出健康99的方案那你今年結束以後 黃蒙里你明年會不會繼續辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10092.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10108.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
會喔 很好喔那我剛提那個問題我認為啦用你這個反而是更危險的然後有那個健康跟安全之餘的你那個三年一次而且金額是最低應該好好去做一個制度上的一個討論很嚴肅的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10111.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10134.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
高官越高的人他就身體檢查一年就一次就一萬六更危險的警消這個部分三年才一次夜班的人而且是三千五不合理 制度上應該去做檢討好不好好 謝謝那一先前的宣告我們就休息五分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10647.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10665.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
我們繼續開會我們接下來請岳元之委員來進行詢問岳元之你知道今天都要保持70分配以下超過分配太高都驅逐出會場主席請找人事長請人事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10673.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10701.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
委員長早我跟你講一個現在在學校發生的現象某一個公立高中他有一個某一個處的一個組長一般組長是由老師來兼因為沒有老師兼所以就找代理老師代理老師一招二招是可以找有教師證都找不到所以三招就開始找沒有教師證的就是那種大學畢業有符合大學畢業資格的就可以來當組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10703.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10722.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
然後第一位代理組長做一個月就不做了後來又再招第二個組長又是做一個月就不做了所以現在在學校缺行政職的狀況是非常嚴重但是這裡面出現一個我個人覺得滿奇怪的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10723.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10751.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
就是其實學校裡面很多組裡面都有考教務行政進去的幹事這些幹事有的是做可能10幾20年他不能做組長然後要由比如說大學剛畢業可能就教學各方面都還沒有經驗的人當他的主管領主管家級但卻不能由幹事來代理這個組長就出現這個狀況我不曉得任市長您聽到之後會不會覺得有點奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10754.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10775.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這個我們再來了解一下不是了解我現在跟你講現象就是這樣那你聽我這樣描述你覺得不能由很有經驗的幹事來代理組長但是必須要由比如說沒有教師證我不是說代理老師一定不好啦而是說這就找不到人嘛當然可以先老師然後再來代理老師但是如果都找不到人的情況之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10776.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10787.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
幹事不能來代理組長他明明就很有經驗只是因為他不是老師他就沒有辦法代理組長然後你不覺得很奇怪嗎你聽這樣講你會不會覺得很奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10788.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10812.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
有一點奇怪這部分我會答應委員我們找教育部來了解一下看看因應這樣的情況要如何去改如何解決對 一定要改過來教育現場已經碰到了碰到了一定要想辦法解決對 所以你現在是要研議說如果假設碰到這種狀況老師都沒有辦法去兼的話由幹事來代理你在研議這個方向是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10813.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10819.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
有時候也是人事總署的建議因為有的是那種直系也是你們規定那這個部分就麻煩你了什麼時候會給我一個答案一個月內因為現在狀況很嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10836.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10856.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
三個月啦三個月太久了啦因為那個人事長平常不是 這個直系的東西不是地方可以決定的啦這是第一件事情第二件事情行政 現在缺行政職其實很多人在說要提高行政家級那這個部分其實已經講很久 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10857.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10867.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我是有看到考試院有發一個新聞可能人事總署也有建議就是我們現在要平衡中央跟地方所以要調整地方機關的3500個職務讓它可以提高一個職等 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10869.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10893.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
職等大概原來有7-8會整個調到8-9所以其實我建議可以比照這種做法因為你們的出發點很好就是地方機關有時候找人不容易很多人都要往中央去跑就是因為職等比較低所以現在要平衡這件事情同樣的像我也覺得在學校裡面的校長主任職等很低現在校長如果領行政家級的話職等是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10896.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10907.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
小學是不是兼任九職等兼任九職等你看喔 一個學校的校長喔校長喔他的職等才兼任九職等高中是兼任十職等嘛對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10908.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10929.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
也好有大小那當然嘛那以一個學校校長都才鑑認90等那任市長不覺得很不尊重教育嗎不重視教育嗎重視教育的重視教育那謝謝就像你重視地方機關一樣你現在要調整中央跟地方的值等讓他們比較平衡我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10930.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10947.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
也應該要調整學校的行政職的職等校長主任都往上提高提高的話他的行政佳績就會提高這是一個尊重第二個當然是待遇也提高不然的話現在在學校也沒有人要真的很少人要兼行政才會出現我剛剛講的狀況人事長你重視教育嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10953.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10979.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那就不要口慧食不治好不好这件事情既然可以做到地方的职等提高我觉得教育行政职等提高也是应该要做第三件事情我们现在在学校里面有非常多处学务处教务处辅导室总务处那您知道在学校里面只有哪几个组长是可以由公务人员来兼吗你知道吗三个就是总务处下面三个组长可以兼 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10980.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11002.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我現在不懂的是說人事總署跟教育部都會規定說要有老師來兼的原因是因為老師有教學經驗所以有些組長他可能要有教學經驗的組長去兼他比較了解怎麼去規劃學校的相關行政事務應該是這樣出發點應該是這樣對吧這個我可以接受所以所有的組長一開始都找老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11003.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11028.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
但是老师找不到代理助长找不到代理老师找不到情况之下有一些组实际上他不见得需要教学经验的人来做嘛举例来讲像教务处教务处你说教学组那当然要教学经验对不对但是如果注册组或者是辅导室的一些其他的相关的比如说资讯组这为什么一定要有教学经验的人来兼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11030.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11052.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這個可能也牽涉到學校的資訊教育的好 沒關係你去盤點嘛你說一定要教學經驗的來做那你就按照原來的規劃但是如果有的實際上不見得一定要老師在兼而現在學校已經缺行政職缺到這麼嚴重的地步我剛剛已經講過案例了嘛那為什麼不能做一些調整呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11053.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11066.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
這很僵化 我們政府很僵化就是不會說遇到問題去調整體制就是既有的體制就一直做到底即便是遇到問題好像當沒看到那這是一個負責任的解決問題的政府嗎 任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11067.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11091.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
我想我會把委員的意見轉請教育部整體來沒有 這個有關於人事任用教育部有時候就會推給人事總署嘛這個乾燥人事總署的規劃我們一起處理 對啊你推給他 推給你 問題就永遠存在嘛不是啦 我跟你講 人事長因為剛剛那個召委有指示啊分配不能太大但是你的回應真的讓人家覺得很官僚啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11092.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11122.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
你就一直去扯教育部如果一個勇於任事的人事長發現這個問題教育體制的人事任用出現這個問題就會說 我很重視教育我要趕快去跟教育部我們一起研商出一個解決教育現場問題的方法但是我沒有看到你的態度然後我剛剛第一時間我的態度跟委員一樣我第一時間跟你講說問題已經嚴重到就是有一公立老師他缺公立高中缺行政職缺到這種地步然後你跟我講說我三個月給你辦法你根本不把這個當一回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11123.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11145.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
所以我希望說你真的認真的去看待這件事情可以嗎可以啊那可不可以盡快給我們一個解決方案盡快不要講三個月好那多久兩個月兩個月你覺得兩個月兩個月一個學期都過去了耶不會啦一個月啦我剛剛講了三個建議我剛剛講了三個建議一個月給我一個報告好不好好不好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11152.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11162.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
好 謝謝岳言之委員 聲音稍大但內容很棒 好吧來 接下來請伍麗華委員詢答謝謝主席 有請任市長請任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11177.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11204.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
委員早人事長早我之前也有來質詢過人事長就是關心園民會的人員編制那麼我在公文上有看到我們人總這邊已經有發給園民會就是在明年115年度同意合增櫃會職員預算原額18人 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11207.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11236.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
那這18人到底要怎麼運用規劃當然公文是說依業務推動需要不過我今天是要來跟我們任市長來說明一下我其實很希望原民會能夠增加一個管理原保地的這種土地的數為什麼我這麼說因為對原住民來講其實土地是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11237.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11260.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
我擔任立委的這幾年也發現我們族人最愛陳情的就是關於土地但是我們看一下以原民會目前它有一個叫土管處土地管理處它管理的原保地面積有26萬公頃它的編制員額我們不要管編制編制是27名實際上是23名 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11263.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11279.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
可是我們去看一下林保署林保署他管理的土地有162萬公頃可是呢他實際的人員有2538名這是一個非常大的一個落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11280.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11303.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
那麼國產署我們也來看一下就是專門看它差不多的國有非公用土地它是21萬公頃跟原民會管理的土地是差不多的但是它的原額有647名那我不曉得說站在任市長您的一個觀點您覺得這樣的一個配比你有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11304.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11323.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
我跟委員報告一下基本上像林保署他本身也有一些動物保育的還有一些像阿里山森林遊樂區相關的他的一個任務的屬性還比較多元另外像國產署因為他有牽涉到 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11325.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11349.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
更廣泛的國家土地的一個整合應用因為我跟延民會土管處事實上以前現在的副主委我跟他很熟 他是我同學那我一直也有跟他提到因為在處理原住民保留地的相關土地潛移的部分除了土管處以外有不少的角色扮演是在地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11349.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11376.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那我說真的以政府機關的那個運作的一個機制我會強烈建議在目前的圖管處底下我們如何去搭配地方政府甚至我們可以找民間的一起來參與這樣的一個機制的運作可能會更有效率因為一個組織的膨脹那麼大有時候跟我們期待的會有一些落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11376.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11398.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那不好意思人事長我必須因為時間的關係齁我打斷您的話齁其實您剛剛一直提到地方政府那我也要跟人事長報告就是因為沒有足夠的人員因此必須依賴縣政府依賴地方鄉公所但是呢這長年以來您可能不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11399.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11427.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
很嚴重的就是私相授受因人涉事產生很多弊端大家各自為政不拿中央園民會當一回事中央園民會也使不上力因為他也必須要把該做的工作交給人家所以這個部分他很容易就變成是地方綁裝的工具像現在越來越多的我們的族人就是站出來抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11428.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11452.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
因為以前這種所謂的我要怎麼樣他有一個土管會那個可能都是鄉長任命然後呢怎麼分配土地怎麼登記土地一團亂中央使不上力這是一個很嚴重的問題所以呢必須要有所改革那我們很高興這一次看到好不容易給了園民會多了18個這個員額所以我想要請教任市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11457.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11468.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
你支不支持 因為原民會想要啊原民會很希望能夠把這個原保地這麼重要的業務把它升格為土地管理署人事長你支不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11469.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11498.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
我覺得要升格的問題要比較審慎的去大家去做分析進一步溝通反而因為我按照目前的這一些分工的話出席延民會的圖管處他有出席審查會刊還有最終審定的作業那個權利是在延民會圖管處他那個管理的手頭所以本市就可以去做這件事只是現在是執行的落實的程度的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11499.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11522.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
來 我跟您說因為實際上就不是這樣原民會使不上力要不然不會有那麼多的弊端產生我們也處理不來所以在這個地方我只是想要了解任市長您的態度跟您是否支持那這樣子我就大概了解但是我還是希望你能夠了解這件事情的嚴重性好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11522.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11548.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
那另外簡單的就是主席再給我一分鐘另外因為我是教師出身那也很多人也關心這個問題那我也經常的參與全教總的記者會我在這邊跟人事長說現在就是兩個大問題教師大逃亡行政大逃亡就是這樣而且這是很普遍的現象而且越來越嚴重我以行政大逃亡來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11549.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11571.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
真的你很難相信很多地方的學校竟然組長是代理老師當這幾年更嚴重的是越來越多代理老師兼主任但是說一句實在話你以為他喜歡嗎他也不喜歡因為行政家籍也不多但是他多很多行政工作但是他迫於無奈 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11573.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11600.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
因為這是他的飯碗因為對他一點用處也沒有他當了組長 當了主任他又不是正式老師他也不能把這個積分拿去考校長對他一點意義都沒有 迫於無奈這個是一個很嚴重的問題這個已經不是教師尊嚴的問題而是教育根本的問題所以有兩個解方我想請教一下任市長你比較 Prefer 哪一種第一種就是我們目前的行政家級是大概來講是三級 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11602.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11612.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
然後讓這些帶課老師甚至很多是無證無教師證的帶課老師來兼這些行政工作我們是希望說就把行政僵局兩極化至少呢我們可以兩極化之後有好一點點的一個行政津貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11620.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11639.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那第二個就是其實教師都是最希望行政專職化就是增加學校的行政人力任市長你比較喜歡哪一種你覺得哪一種是比較你可以支持的我覺得委員提的問題非常好我們現在會分兩個階段第一個我們先跟教育部去溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11640.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11663.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
聽聽看教育部的看法大家有一個共識以後我們再找一些地方政府因為這一些的財政的負擔有時候會地方政府要去cover所以地方政府的一個聲音我們也要納進來所以我們會分兩個階段那我們會盡快來進行這件事情那你希望給我報告好不好那第二個部分就是關於教師大逃亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11664.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11670.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我跟您說我先說導師是一個很美的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11671.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11696.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
早晨接學生進來陪著他晨間閱讀陪著他做招會陪著他做課間活動招陪著他吃營養午餐陪著他一起睡午覺陪著他一起做掃地工作最後送他出校門回家平平安安的回家很美的工作但是我跟任市長說這一些我剛剛講的加起來175分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11701.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11724.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
約三個小時導師費一天一百塊連時薪都不到所以任市長您覺得導師費該不該增加這麼神聖這麼美好的工作這不是尊嚴的問題而已這是我們教育的根本這是我們未來的主人翁有快樂的老師才有快樂的學生可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11725.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11736.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我們會跟教育部溝通請他們假如有需要調整的話報上來我們來予以支持教育部很高興可以 予以支持我們一定支持的好 謝謝任市長 謝謝主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11739.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11756.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
好 謝謝吳立華委員精彩的質詢我們接下來請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在洪孟凱委員不在賴世保委員不在邱志偉委員不在蘇清泉委員不在楊瓊英委員不在傅坤祺 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11767.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11772.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
今天所有的登記發言的委員都已經發言完畢 詢答就結束了那我們委員諮詢時要求提供的相關資料或以書面答覆者請相關機關盡速送交個別委員跟本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11796.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11820.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
那委員審發會傅坤祺所提書面質詢列入記錄刊登公報並請相關機關以書面來做答覆那我們本次的會議議程所列的事項都已經處理完畢那我們會議進行到此就結束了剛好你看我們的二氧化碳的剛好已經降到843ppm來 現在散會 謝謝大家 |