| IVOD_ID |
16987 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16987 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-29 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-19-8 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
8 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
19 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
經濟委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-29T08:39:52+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-29T12:32:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:52:08 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/16eb79f0bb3b77db021bb07685947ff68471d0a98230b3dd0aa126c40303dc27a17bbd3b6ecc00bd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-29T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查：
行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等20人、委員李坤城等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員羅美玲等19人、委員賴惠員等21人、委員黃捷等22人、委員陳亭妃等17人、委員邱鎮軍等21人及委員吳沛憶等16人分別擬具「電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案」。
二、審查：
行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等20人、委員李坤城等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、委員賴瑞隆等16人、委員羅美玲等19人、委員賴惠員等21人、委員黃捷等22人、委員陳亭妃等17人、委員邱鎮軍等24人及委員吳沛憶等16人分別擬具「天然氣事業法第五十五條之一條文修正草案」條文對照表。
三、審查：
行政院函請審議、本院委員王美惠等19人、委員李坤城等18人、委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人、委員羅美玲等19人、委員賴惠員等21人、委員黃捷等22人、委員陳亭妃等17人、委員吳沛憶等16人分別擬具「自來水法第九十七條之一條文修正草案」及委員賴瑞隆等16人擬具「自來水法第三條、第十六條之一及第九十七條之一條文修正草案」條文對照表。
以上全案於10月29日（星期三）進行合併詢答，10月30日（星期四）處理。
【10月29日及30日二天一次會】（請參閱開會通知單及議程）） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:39:52 - 12:32:00 |
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多謝各位 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1374.813 |
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1388.005 |
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请组密报告出席人数报告委员会出席委员10人以足法定人数我们现在开始开会后进行报告事项请宣读上次会议事录 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1389.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1408.218 |
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立法院第11屆第4會期經紀委員會第7次圈庭委員會議事錄時間114年10月23日星期四九十二分至十二時十九分地點紅樓101會議室出席委員邱盈盈等14人列席委員吳秉瑞等15人列席人員農業部部長陳俊濟等主席楊昭靜委員強英報告事項一 宣讀上次會議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1409.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1427.795 |
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決定 確定二 邀請農業部部長及財政部公務署首長就非洲豬瘟防疫防檢疫後續防疫精進作為進行報告並被質詢農業部部長陳俊濟及財政部公務署署長彭英偉報告後委員邱盈等19人提出質詢 經由農業部部長陳俊濟等及其答覆 決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1428.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1439.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
登記發言委員逐步在場者外 其餘均已發言完畢 詢答結束二 委員陳昭明及陳冠廷所提書面質詢列入記錄 刊登公報三 書面質詢和未及答覆部分 請相關單位於週內書面答覆並複製本會 上會 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1448.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1463.724 |
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謝謝 請問還沒有這個人數還沒到因為美玲不是我們委員會的那我先感謝部長在禮拜一率隊然後到台南跟我們產業座談非常成功我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1464.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1491.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
这样子的一个座谈才能让地方知道我们到底中央做了什么然后要帮忙他们什么否则有时候我们做了很多但是却有一个gap那就非常的可惜所以谢谢我们的部长带了我们说的同仁到台南去跟产业座谈谢谢那我们现在继续进行讨论事项请一并宣读 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1495.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1517.433 |
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1 審查行政院罕見審議 委員王美惠等20人 委員李坤澄等18人 委員吳立華等16人 委員賴銳龍等16人 委員劉伯寧等19人 委員賴慧玲等21人 委員黃潔等22人 委員陳廷飛等17人 委員邱振軍等21人及委員吳佩玉等16人 分別擬據 定案法第71條之一 條文修正草案等10案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1519.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1538.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
2.審查行政行政審議委員王美惠等20人委員李坤城等18人委員吳立華等16人委員賴銳榮等16人委員羅美玲等19人委員賴慧妍等21人委員王潔等22人委員陳亭飛等17人委員邱振軍等24人委員吳佩儀等16人分別擬據天然氣事業法第55條之一條修正查案等11案 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1539.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1558.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
三 審查行政函金審議委員廣美惠等19人 委員李坤城等18人委員吳立華等16人 委員羅美玲等19人委員賴慧玲等21人 委員黃潔等22人委員陳廷輝等17人 委員吳佩儀等16人分別擬據自來水法第97條之一條文修正查案等9案及委員賴瑞榮等16人擬據自來水法第3條第16條之一及第97條之一條文修正查案宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1569.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1582.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
谢谢我们现在先介绍我们在场的委员跟列席官员首先介绍我们邱毅英委员谢谢还有罗美玲委员谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1583.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1612.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
那我们经济部部长 公民兴工部长能源署署长 李军理署长水利署署长 林元鹏林署长中油董事长 方正仁董事长还有台电总经理王耀廷王总经理台湾自来水公司总经理李丁来林总经理还有海洋委员会海巡署副署长谢庆青副署长我们海巡还有内政部地政司 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1612.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1637.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
检政市长张哲明张市长还有我们国家安全局第三处处长陈处长然后还有我们交通部港港局副局长陈兵权陈副局长法务部参事廖江县廖参事那个我们陈处长你的名字是陈处长吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1639.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1665.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我知道了解我以为我给他念错了还好谢谢我以为我念错了对对对那我们这个那个本日议程我们讨论四项有三案分别为电业法第七十一条之一条文求正常案 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1665.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1694.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
天然气事业法第55条之一条文修正草案及自来水法第三条第16条之一及第97条之一条文草案修正草案那本日我们进行询答然后我们待会看时间有可能我们会把今天的这个条文再拜托我们议事处先把它念完然后明天我们明天再直接直接条文处理然后 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1695.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1723.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
我們現在先請羅美玲委員一併說明三案我們把三案一次說明 謝謝謝謝主席 大家早安台灣高度依賴海底通訊電力天然氣水資源跟氣象建立的海底管線可是近年來我們屢見我國的海底電纜遭到中國傳之惡意不法的侵害破壞之情勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1724.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1739.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那為了全面強化保護我國基礎設施的安全守護台灣國民生活的權益本席跟關心國家安全的立院同仁提出七部相關法律修正草案其中包含了電液法天然氣失業法自然水法已建立 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1740.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1761.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
更完整的海纜及相關基礎設施的保護體系這次的修法我們希望將各類的海底纜線管線納入法律保護的範圍並提高故意犯罰經刑之上限增訂過失犯之刑罰規範明定供犯罪用的工具船舶或其他機械設備之沒收集處置規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1764.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1778.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我們也希望修法之後能強化對傳播之管理新增傳播應開啟自動識別系統提供正確的識別資訊對異常滯留傳播得以命令離港或離博 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1779.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1807.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
唯一命令者呢我國政府可以沒入船隻那海底纜線跟管線被破壞將直接危及國家的這個安全台灣的民生以及本島與離島之間的這個連結本期相信本次的修法不僅能對保障台灣人民日常生活更是維護國家安全的重要的這個修法我們期望藉由修法加嚴標準明定責任並期望能有效降低破壞的風險提升執法的威懾並強化政府在跨域 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1808.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1836.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
海洋通訊能源船運等關鍵基礎設施之整體治理能力那本席呢呼籲本立院呢因不分黨派早日將此修正案審查通過並完成三讀以盡速打造我國海冷及管線保護之防線確保我國在數位經濟能源轉型離島連結及國防安全獲得穩定的保障最後呢本席必須要求行政單位未來應嚴格執法以章我國法規並維護國家安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1838.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1838.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1857.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1876.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以我们希望说在各个委员会要尽速能够把这样的一个期法条文做了修正之后让我们各部会有武器有法的规定之后我们就能够执法这是我们现在面临的非常重要的关键所以我也有提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1876.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1891.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
但是我不做說明待會有諮詢的時候再來做報告那現在我們首先先請我們的龔明欣部長來做這個報告就委員提案還有行政院版本合併來做報告 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1908.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1931.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
主席各位委員大家好那今天請就這個電源法還有天然氣事業法以及自來水法來研修政策以及大院各委員所擬據的查案內容檢要報告如下敬請各位委員先進不吝指教首先第一大部分本部所研擬的這個電源法跟天然氣事業法 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1931.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1958.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
天然氣事業法還有自來水法的政策上的一些說明那我想為了確保我們台灣的電力天然氣以及自來水輸送的供應確保這個民生服務維護國家安全那本部呢基本上在行政院的指示之下呢提出了電業法跟天然氣事業法還有自來水法等等的修正草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1959.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1985.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
本次的修法大概主要包含了三大的重点第一部分是将海底的电力电缆以及输水的管线纳入法规的保护范围目前来讲我们这个三个法里面现行的天然气法已经把海底的输气的管线纳入了保护的范围这一次修法就再把 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1985.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2004.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
電力電纜跟送水的管線納到這個保護的範圍裡面那第二個是新增過失犯他的刑罰規範那基本上是考量到這個船舶在海上行駛或停泊的時候本來就應該要避免碰撞或毀損這個海底電纜的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2007.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2014.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那所以我們比照了電信的管理法的規定增訂了過失犯他的刑法的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2017.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2038.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
來強化法規保護的這個範疇那第三個重點是針對故意侵害海底電力電纜或者是出氣管線或者是送水管線等等的犯罪的樣態我們把它明定犯罪用的工具還有船舶或其他的機械設備沒入跟處置的相關的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2039.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2055.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
那這個是我們這一次定定這個草案的三大重點那第二大部分是有關於大院委員所拟據的修正案那我們來做說明那有關於包括剛剛提到的這個前面三項增訂的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2056.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2084.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那委員跟本部的提案有一點點不一樣的是大部分的委員提的是差不多的但是有部分的委員他建議提高這個過失犯的刑罰提高到一年以下有期徒刑或者是苛責新台幣300萬元以下的罰金那我們的草案是六個月以下200萬元那這個委員希望把它做一個提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2085.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2106.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那另外也是一样就是这个故意犯罚金的部分希望可以提高到一亿五千万那我们现在拟地的草案是一亿元那其他的部分大概这些刑罚的这个最高上限大部分的委员跟我们本部提的草案是相近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2108.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2133.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
再來是有關於第二項的部分我們是希望就是說因為剛剛主席有提到總共跨部會有七個法我們希望說這個七個法它的原則還有模式還有架構確保各部會管理法的一致性所以我們還是希望來支持我們原來的法則 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2135.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2160.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那第二是有關於徵定故意犯含未遂犯他犯罪行事全部的收益沒收以及不能沒收時候的追繳規定那我們認為就是說因為考量到當次的傳播收益數比較難去認定而且另外傳播收益的對象也未必是本國人所以事實上實務上執行這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2165.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2189.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
政策是有相當的困難度所以懇請各位委員支持本部的修正案那第三是有關於訂定公告與公共安全有關的自來水事業的必要設施以及圖資的建置的這個部分跟各位委員報告的就是說委員所提到的這個訂定並公告公共安全有關的自來水必要的設施設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2192.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2214.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
事实上在现行的自来水法的97条之一第五项已经有明定了有关于要汇商海洋主管机关办理图资建制的部分本部目前也按照了行政协处的模式已经洽请海委会协助我们公布相关的图资看起来好像也 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2215.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2234.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
不需要訂定該款的規定所以請各位委員指教最後是感謝大院諸位委員對於我國民生必需的相關的海底纜線保護所提的建議本部在行政院的指導之下來推動此次的修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2235.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2236.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
謝謝部長謝謝部長的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2254.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2282.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
有关本次会议各部会所提的书面报告请委员自行参阅并刊登公告那本日议程所列讨论事项和并询答分开处理委员执行权依照往例我们做以下的宣告每位委员发言时间本会委员五分钟必要时得延长两分钟非本会委员四分钟上午十点三十分截止发言登记首先请登记第一位的邱颖颖委员发言 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2291.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2294.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好謝謝主席我是不是請一下工部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2302.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2327.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
邱委員早部長早部長我想這個我們今天在處理這個所謂的海濫七法那這目前的三個法是跟經濟委員會有相關謝謝部長剛剛的報告海濫七法我想這個大家最近台灣其實是更能夠深刻的感受到從今年其實也有已經有多起的所謂海濫被破壞的這樣的一個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2328.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2351.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那這海欄呢其實是我們國家的數位命脈我們有非常多的國際資料傳輸其實都是必須仰賴這些海底的電纜那這個七法的目的其實除了要保障以外我覺得很重要的其實國安的問題才是我們應該要認真去面對的部長我直接請教一下現在的行政院的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2353.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2370.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我們談到了所謂的故意破壞者是處一年以上七年以下的有期徒刑過失者是處六個月以下的徒刑或者是只有兩百萬元的罰款我請教一下你的故意跟過失是要怎麼樣去做區分 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2371.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2389.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
容易區分的出來嗎那能不能比照所謂的美國電信安全法的模式把這一個刑責把他拉高呢這個在過去在我們行政院版的討論的過程裡頭有沒有做這一方面的考量過部長報委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2394.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2414.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
故意或過失基本上是法院會認定不過當然有一些樣態我們也可以了解行為上面呢法院上當然是有分什麼叫故意什麼叫過失嘛行為上你能夠區分得出來嗎基本上他要KAIS出來嘛對不對如果一直在那邊滯留如果他只是通行的話按照道理他的速度應該很容易就過 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2415.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2430.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
但是一直在那邊滯留在那邊打圈圈繞的話那這個就這個就比較明顯當然也不是我們認定的但是這個就比較不是好像是過失而已可能他有特地的用途 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2431.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2446.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
在那邊其實你們看過這個海巡署給的相關的資料都能夠看得其實都非常的清楚嘛有很多的這個漁船就是一直在那裡繞圈圈嘛好那我要請教就是說你們有沒有你們認不認為應該要比照 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2449.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2478.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
比照像美國的這個模式把這個刑期提高又或甚者是我覺得現在整個國際的趨勢去設立一個所謂的海欄保護區比如說美國當然是把刑度提高澳洲紐西蘭他們也設定了所謂的海欄保護區歐盟也成立了所謂的海欄安全行動機制跟其他的國家做區域的聯防所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2478.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2491.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
台灣有沒有可能 或者說你們有沒有討論過我們是不是應該要來規劃 設立所謂的海南保護區作為你們未來要驅離或是沒入這些財閥的很明確的規範 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2494.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2523.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
有沒有做過討論 第一個那如果有討論在法裡頭為什麼沒有看到如果沒有做過討論不劃定保護區的理由是什麼來 部長請您一併說明報告委員 因為執行端的話是我們是比較是海委會海巡署在幫我們執行啦那座標 我們的座標也都會給海巡 海委會公告那來做一些執行這樣子一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2524.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2551.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
你沒有回答我的問題啊我在問你說有沒有想要設定海嵐的走廊保育區有沒有你跟我講是海委會執行海委會今天有沒有人來海委會來海巡署院有討論過啦但是副署長來副署長請您說明一下好不好原在行政院四次會議中的確有討論有討論分散立法放在各部會就現在的修法 七法也有集中立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2552.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2580.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
比方說要不要定住海南保護區的部分嗎過海南保護區也有討論後來考慮是這樣因為海南保護區還涉及到漁民作業權益還要實際執法問題那後來就決定維持目前就是12海里依照國際法規定12海里我們嚴格執法那這部分的話落實在海南七法有經過充分的討論第二個 各位報告那有關過失犯部分在個案部分我們都會完整收證給檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2582.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2609.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
司法機關那以紅太58號今年2月25號檢察官起訴法官判決船長三年有期徒刑他就認定船上有海上圖資他明擺標示他就在海底電纜上面他竟然下錨所以他是故意的另外中華電信有一個SAW Source系統只要經過他的電區他會發訊號不過這艘船他沒有開AS沒有接收到 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2610.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2617.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
所以他故意把AIS關閉是 所以檢察官依個案事實認定依據經驗法則 論理法則認定宏泰58號是故意犯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2622.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2649.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
副所長我想還是要再更進一步請教如果說為了保護我們的漁船作業所以我們不宜來劃設所謂的海南保護區我們比照其他的國家比如說你們現在你剛剛談到的我們跟澳洲跟日本跟美國這個所謂的區域聯防的這一塊到底未來應該怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2650.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2673.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
或者是說你們未來會怎麼樣去做加強我想很顯然的大家都注意到這個海底電纜不斷的被故意破壞這件事情這個對每一國來講都是一個很重大的威脅那對於印太區域聯防這件事情你們應該怎麼做你們會怎麼做這個是非常 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2674.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2698.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
好的方向我們現在全力以赴那因為考量國際情勢我們現在透過各種管道包括外交途徑等等我們希望跟我們理念相近的國家共同合作因為海底電腦是我們國家的生命線對外的生命線那這個都是互相連結的所以希望更希望亞太地區相關國家共同合作這一部分相關部會持續努力中 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2699.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2717.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
好來我再進一步請教你所謂的相關合作當然現在一定要先去跟人家談嘛透過我們的外交管道或者是透過一些國安的系統可能是要跟這些國家去商談嘛那你商談之後的合作模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2718.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2746.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
未來會不會顯示在我們的修法的這個層級裡頭你說我們的現在的修法的幅度會不會太過於太過於輕或者是說這個是其實我們跟印太區域的這幾個國家大家相對來講都有一定的默契在執法上面在各個國家在他們的法定的修正上面其實大家會有一定的默契去執行那 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2747.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2750.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
除了海底電纜可能被切斷之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2751.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2778.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
有沒有其他的補強措施或者是應急的措施也是可以其他的印太區域國家大家一起共同合作的你只要回答我有或者是沒有就好我不要了解你的細部因為這個細部問題有可能是牽涉到國家機密有確實包括親自分享包括共同打擊相關的類似活動那另外在修法部分對於有意圖危害國家安全跟社會安定 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2779.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2808.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
提高刑責已經到十年而且罰金是五千萬所以這部分有可以發生相當嚇阻所以你覺得現在行政院的版本這個修法的刑責跟罰則你認為是OK的可以達到嚇阻效果根據原報告紅帶58號不僅是我們台灣第一次破壞立案起訴判決有罪案件更是全世界第一例包括歐洲國家相關國家都在了解我們的應處過程所以這部分應該可以發揮到適時的嚇阻效果OK 好 了解 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2810.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2816.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
謝謝 謝謝邱穎委員的資訊謝謝我們相關單位的備詢謝謝我們先請林戴華委員質詢好來我們先確定一事錄OK嗎沒有意見我們召喚通過謝謝有請部長跟國務卿來我們請部長跟國務卿 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2842.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2859.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
人員署也請上來好國營事業不只要賺錢更要顧安全顧員工顧地方好今天本席針對國營事業的改革要來跟這個部長跟國營事來做個 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2860.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2885.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
討論我們國營事業的改革不應該只有營運跟報表中油台電台水台糖這些國營事業是國家最重要的人員跟民生支柱最近因為人員價格的波動通膨的壓力淨零轉型的挑戰這些國營事業被要求提高營收降低成本但是忽略了三件事情安全勞動 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2887.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2916.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
地方责任营收住址可以美化我不说造假它可以美化安全事故却不能说谎国民世界如果只看盈余忽视了安全跟人力最终损失的会是民众的信任跟国家的根本好我们话说天然气的泄露本席认为这不应该在永安这个地方当作单次的意外应该建立起长期制度性的监测 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2917.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2942.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
根據IEA這個國際組織在去年針對LNG甲烷外洩的國際報告IEA跟國內學者來比對衛星數據這個數據很有趣從去年年底到今年年初台灣的發電廠數字的被國際衛星偵測到天然氣溢散的 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2943.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2961.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
的這個數據我這邊都羅列出來2024 12月1號有一些2025 1月4號包括今年的1月12號1月4號到1月12號6天而已國際的這樣的IEA的利用衛星數據就可以偵測的到 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2963.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2981.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
而國內現有就是以物聯網偵測的系統卻未能同步偵測到異常這代表我國的天然氣安全的體系是有盲區的我點出來你們這個的缺失你們現在都是物聯網啊然後但是卻未能同步偵測到異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2983.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2997.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
所以人家是從去年年底到今年年初連這三次都有這樣的報告所以這個盲句要請部長跟國運司你們要去注意因為LNG天然氣的安全人員的安全是人員屬 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2999.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3017.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
你在主管好那所以呢天然氣的洩漏不應該是單次以外應該建立的長期制度性的監測所以本期要求應該要建立燃氣安全監管方案為了顧及環境保護及國人生命財產的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3018.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3039.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
要求人員署因為是天然氣的主管機關整合中油而中油是目前國內唯一進口天然氣的但是進來之後你會給民間譬如說新雄瓦斯所謂新自備的全國的瓦斯民生在用但是台電也會用到天然氣的發電都已經進到發電佔比都50%了都還會再更提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3045.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3070.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
所以即刻起規劃科技化衛星天然氣的監管方案以強化監管的這個以強化這個監管 我要求一個月內你提出建制時程的規劃安全不能靠口號也不能再等下一次的爆炸或洩漏才要再來做檢討好 這個是不是先回應一下部長國營司人員署來是 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3072.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3085.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
謝委員的這個的建議啦這個就是新的方法只要有新的方法好的方法那我們來研理看看那一個月以後會給委員一個報告嘛就是看看包括這個衛星數據他發為什麼對這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3088.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3112.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
我們高雄人非常有感2014年的這個凱旋路的氣爆案那也是這個油管的一個氣爆其實到現在為止如果我能夠用衛星它的範圍是更大的那所以這個部分要也謝謝部長您這麼明快的一個材質好我們來看國營事業的績效不應該犧牲基層 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3114.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3139.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
這左邊這個報告是你們經濟部在113年國營私所提出來的國營事業未來10年能力的嚴重斷層這個表所呈現的是什麼國營事業員工的平均年齡是46歲中油是平均的年齡是47.8台電是46.3人力高齡化再加上外包比例過高 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3140.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3156.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
所以導致什麼技術傳承有斷層安全操作當然就會出現缺口我永安林園兩大廠近五年內發生多起都是誰外包維修期間的異常事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3157.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3186.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
險之風安全風險跟能力短缺這兩個雙重問題所帶來的這個公安事件所以國營是應該要思考國營事業真才是有別於公務人員的公職人員這很吊詭我們的禁用是比照公務人員但是當公務人員現在要這個調薪的時候我們國營事業這要我替國營事業所有的員工講個話他一定是比公務人員慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3187.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3207.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
幅度也會比國營人員低那因為調薪又沒有一個機制每次都要在立法院不分藍綠的在這個預算會期當中的隔年要大力疾呼你看今年什麼時候才核定這個年終獎金的績效去年就在喊了喊到現在四五月才核定 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3207.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3234.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
公務人員早就年初1月1號就開始執行了甚至你公布的時候還可以追溯所以你說你要徵才國營事業的禁用比照公務人員 不好意思他的績效又要比照企業所以你民間企業在徵才你一定要維持企業的競爭力必須提高誘因這幾個誘因福利 薪資 勞動環境還要加上科技化的應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3234.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3251.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
本身我們的相關的智慧化的決策智慧化的一個這個經營管理這都應該要納入這也是誘因啊才能吸引我們國營世界才能吸引優秀人才來提升企業的競爭力好所以我具體要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3251.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3279.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
優化國營事業能力結構與勞動條件第一個 經濟部應建立國營事業職災通報與追蹤系統所有的爆炸 洩漏 墜落事件及時揭露我講的是經濟部部本部現在是各國營事業自己有自己跟地方的回報跟縣市政府的回報那這是每個國營事業都有建立起這個機制沒有 各區自己經營像中油我其實就是要給它額露一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3280.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3297.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
中遊在地方上也記取這些公安事件所以其實董事長這邊我要給你鼓勵一下給你拍手一下你對於只要任何的公安事件其實都會及時的跟我們地方的這些意見領袖做通報至少我本席也有收到 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3298.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3327.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那但是台電那就要加把勁了好在我相信總經理董事長你們也非常非常辛苦這實在是我實在也民眾的安全包括我們人員的政策的執行其實台電是真的很辛苦但是我還是得要求所以像這個的這個部分但是我要講的跟部長知道你這些的追蹤系統都是各工廠自己跟各地方自己不同我覺得應該不管不同一 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3328.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3350.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
你自己要掌握啊要不然公安事件你們通通都是在背後收尾啊然後大家都急救張啊好所以這個我覺得要求部本部自己本身要有國營事業實在通報及追蹤系統的及時揭露那第二個請國營是一個月內會同國營事業跟公會討論兩件事情第一個強化國營事業的競爭力研討國營事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3353.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3377.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
職工福利與公職人員薪酬條件脫鉤方案你禁用跟福利都比照公務人員啊那不對啊那但是你的企業公務人員不用要求企業的這種的績效你卻要求他績效啊那你相關的這個他們站在第一線國營事業除了台塘之外其實都是高危險的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3378.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3401.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
你包括連台電要出海 那個離岸風電他們也要工作船欸 那也屬於危險不是只有在陸地上 在山區電線港爬欸那中油更不在話下了每一個他就在 都是在高危險的石化廠區內所以這個他的薪資 他的職工福利一定要脫鉤公務人員的薪酬 這個我要求那請國營司這邊 也當然請部長你才是啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3404.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3425.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這以及針對特定第一線工作人員因提撥職災意外津貼的補貼這說起來很好玩喔這個工會啊的會員的錢都是會員自己繳他們針對就中有我了解其實工會都有提供他們另外在勞健保之外還有一個職災的一個補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3427.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3446.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
中油本公司有沒有 沒有台電本公司有沒有 沒有台水有沒有他們也都是在地底下在專刊啊等等啊沒有耶所以我這邊要求部本部這邊尤其國營司主導在一個月內會同國營司公會要針對這兩項也要來做一個這個討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3450.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3476.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
這就是你的勞工條件啊這就是你的這個福利條件啊甚至你的這個為了增加國營事業的競爭力你的科技化的部分你需要工會怎麼的替你做宣導跟人員訓練啊這在在都是對於你國營事業到底是不是全台人員命脈你有沒有重視國營事業他是全全台的人員命脈這件事情的重要性好所以最後結語 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3478.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3500.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
國營事業的改革回到三個安全是底線員工是根本地方是責任所以國營事業不能只是賺錢的公司更是國家的延伸我要求經濟部自己提案修改國營事業管理法第13條讓KPI不只是盈餘而是國營事業管理法第13條要納入KPI要納入安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3501.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3519.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
勞工跟地方貢獻唯有這樣國營事業才不只是國家資產更是人民信任的力量好在這邊我漏了一下就是說在國營事業是根本效益要回到地方所以呢像我高雄擁有永安LNG的接收站 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3520.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3547.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
大林電廠 興達電廠 林園石化基地是全台人員的命脈地方回饋不能只有回饋金 我要強調這一點你們不能只有回饋金還要建置制度性的合作帶動地方發展讓國營企業不再是嫌惡設施將具體要求將地方回饋納入公司治理的ESG報告三項 第一個國營事業董事會的營運目標中因名列在地採購金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3548.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3572.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
第二個地方稅收的貢獻第三合作學校的訓練人數尤其合作學校的訓練人數我非常感謝中油跟台電這要讓部長知道在高雄市的所有的產學合作中油的在林園廠的產學專幫我非常感謝中油是把他真的明確的納入他人才培養的基地這我非常的感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3573.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3602.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
包括在小港我的這個中油也是有這個中油的這個產學專班也是一樣再來台電我也是非常的感謝你們那個幾乎辦的績效都非常的好這個學徒制的建制有在高中的階段的納入地方稅收的貢獻合作學校的訓練就應該納入公司治理的ESG報告第二個經濟部每年發布這是我要求的國營事業在地效益白皮書 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3603.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3625.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
一切都公開 揭露高雄的採購金額投資項目跟就業創造你在在地啊 我不要說你是有回饋啊制度性的合作來帶動地方發展 你地方採購就要採購我高雄有的你就跟我高雄來做採購投資項目我們有的 你投資了多少我高雄的公共建設 跟我市政府合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3626.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3636.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
就業創造 本來就是應該如此所有的第三個要求 重大建設如七階忍忍的再利用園區同步建立地方監測委員會保障資訊公開 社會參與這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3641.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3662.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
所謂重大你說你要把它當作壁嶺你反而會被攻擊你把它當作公共建設地方參與你就會一起成長好在這邊我不知道部長您就回答一下吧針對在人員這個國營失趕快的我對於人才人力結構跟勞動結構的部分第七頁這邊您回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3663.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3676.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
好 謝謝事實上我們現在執行的方向也跟委員的提醒是大致上一樣那尤其薪水的部分我們也有一些彈性像這一次公務員調薪3%但是我們國營事業是調了3.5%因為最近 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3679.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3702.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這些國營事業的同仁也真是非常辛苦那就像剛剛提到的我們新進人員可能要有一些機制我們慢慢來調整這個方向是這樣部長我講的就是你現在能夠上升到部本部而且要制度化部本部對國營事業對植栽的部分的通報系統的即時揭露部本部喔當然國營是你一個月內對於國營事業跟工會要跟工會討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3704.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3724.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
你的這個福利職工福利跟公職人的薪資要脫鉤你也當然但是我強調是跟國營事業跟公會一起討論把它制度建立起來好嗎我們是不是把這些制度的建立我們是不是一個月內一個月內把這個所有相關的資料報給我們經紀委員會然後給我們委員辦公室知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3728.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3741.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
那請主席您是不是能夠接續採視一下我這邊眷對地方回饋的部分納入公司治理的ESG的報告有這三項也請他是不是能夠做研議呢一併喔在這個報告裡面一個月夠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3744.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3758.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
這個要將地方回饋納入公司治理的ESG報告包括在地採購 地方稅收貢獻 合作學校的訓練人數還有國營事業在地效益的白皮書還有政大先生地方監測的委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3759.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3787.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
再麻煩那個戴華你把這些一份資料給他們他們要做的相關相關分析相關資料給他們這樣才不會有漏掉的好謝謝主席然後最後請主席是不是也採視一下這個就真的經濟部提案你研議提案剛國民事業管理法的第13條裡面修正讓你的KPI要包含安全勞動地方貢獻及至正式的法治化之後就不用在那邊爭了 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3788.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3812.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我们是不是一并在这一个月内检讨出来说是不是有这个必要要把我们国营事业管理法的第13条来做修正然后让它的KPI不只是盈余而可以有包含到安全劳动地方贡献这些部分我们一并在一个月把它提出我们的报告那该修法的我们再来修好不好谢谢感谢主席谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3816.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3817.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我們請陳亭飛委員質詢後 拜託你 謝謝我們請部長來 請工部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3838.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3854.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
部長我們總共有海覽七法那在我們經濟委員會是三法那第二個是電業法它是相關要保護我們海底的電力電纜那如果說我們這一次有新增了過失犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3854.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3873.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
的罰則還有可沒收犯罪的工具傳播就是說讓你們更有這個執行的方向以前是沒有的所以不知道怎麼去處罰他們也不會害怕因為就無法可管嘛那天然氣失業法要保護海底的輸氣管線 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3874.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3900.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
我們新增了過失犯的罰則也是一樣可以沒收犯罪工具還有船舶然後自來水法也是我們是針對海底送水管線那也是新增了過失犯的罰則還有可沒收的犯罪工具跟船舶大概我們這一次是給了我們更有可以執行的方向而且我們沒有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3902.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3917.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
这些法令的话根本我们去说规则我们就不会理你即使抓到了也没有用因为就没有法所以这个为什么我会这么快去排这个海岸三法因为非常重要因为我们发现 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3917.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3938.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
这个故意的甚至有一些这个政治意图的也越来越多你无法去判断它到底是经济还是真的是政治所以我觉得我们就是把它在法的位阶做到最好的保护那我们现在其实我们还有另外四法 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3940.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3969.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
部長 我們這另外四法當中其實有牽扯的範圍蠻大的有我們的數位部 交通部 國防部法務部 國營事業 民營業者還有我們海委會今天大概還有我們的經濟部其實我們的七法裡面其實相關的非常的多那我們要怎麼做跨部會的協調平台因為我們是三法其他的四法在分屬各部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3970.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3991.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那今天如果發生問題的時候誰去做直接執法因為真正的在執行我們海上的這個保護的基本上是海巡署在執行這樣的業務那我們法定了以後呢海巡署就可以依照這個法去處理嗎我們請海巡署副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3993.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4009.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這個移種檢調機關這樣子有一個法有檢調機關在依照這些法去做處置嗎可是它的嚴重程度到底怎麼去判定來我們副處長海上石化機關是海域會很迅速 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4009.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4026.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那現在這個法規定之後非常明確他明定違法要件包括過失犯包括涉案的傳播不問犯罪人所有就可以沒入得以沒收那另外還要加重刑責最重要的是發現就可以先扣嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4026.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4047.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
就是有犯罪嫌疑的话比方说有过段外力过段疑似他我们可以放航机我们来研判那我们会报警警察官我们都只要是扯断电缆的外力扯断我们都视为国安监那都会报警警察官指挥侦办因为这样如果海上许可跟可以确定目标的话我们都会把他代案 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4047.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4076.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那现在这个案子的话大家的话航港局都同意我们都因为是扣押的话都会用公务安排船席所以这是在侦办部分第二个部分就是在预防那预防的话这个主管机关中华电信它有一个告警系统所有船舶船长是20公尺以上航速低于5节在海南区左右1公里换句话说可能就滞留可能下锚的那他就会发讯号AS讯号让他要离开 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4076.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4102.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
不過鴻太58號我們抓到這一艘他是把AIS關掉所以我們就是有這個系統然後我們把可疑傳播96艘香港局提供給我們資料96艘我們分高中低危險程度我們做不同的管控像鴻太58號就是可疑傳播那他還在海南區那通知又不走所以我們就第一時間就前推布置結果去那邊廣播請他離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4104.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4132.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
一把毛拉起來的時候就把它勾斷是現行犯逮捕的所以我們在預防跟偵辦部分是並重那最後就在跨部會在1月3號發生另外一起順興39號勾斷海底電的案例那1月6號海委會就召開相關部會相關部會來做跨部會協調都有共識那目前都已經落實在七法我們想以後有的司法工具我們會更明確更有效 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4132.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4147.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我想我們會盡快把這個執法工具然後能夠讓我們海巡署能夠更有力的去針對這些故意犯或是有一些可能誤闖了或是這個誤 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4151.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4176.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這個誤施了這個所謂的一個電纜系統所以我覺得這個分野我們要很清楚可是你講的預防起碼我們如果這個法我們開始跟大家說哪些是不行的而且哪個範圍是有我們相關的電纜系統所以這個部分這個海纜系統的部分要怎麼去告知這個線我們其實要先告知應該這個圖資都有了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4179.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4194.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
保委員在行政院歷次開會都討論過因為以後這罰則非常重也包括過失犯所以要認定就要很明確所以當初決議由主管機關內政部他彙整相關的圖資要公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4195.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4219.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
要公告所以這部分的話是可以當作佐證之一那當然個案施政不一而主我們比方說我們去現場收證的話我們會起毛有沒有勾斷痕跡啊還有從雷達航機可以研判到航向那AS有沒有打開有沒有接收到等等這部分我們都會那個併案給檢察官來參考那最重要跟委員報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4220.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4246.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
在這個案子的話為什麼我們以後海面會透明化海巡署可以精準執法除了預防措施以外非常感謝交通部航空局的協助會修相關的規定比方說海船的區域化還有山關化 還有船舶化要開AS不開的話會處很重的划船那另外最重要的最重要的就是說很多都在我們周遭海域滯留 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4247.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4262.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我們去趕海象部好很辛苦趕完之後又去而復返那以後這部分都列為禁止入港的船舶那沒有這些在外海滯留船舶就會減少過段海底的風險那這是源頭管理也是精準執法的一項 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4262.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4280.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我覺得說我們一定要把整個資訊透明當我們要重罰的時候我們應該把資訊更清楚讓大家了解說我的圖資那我想問一下內政部那圖資的部分你們什麼時候可以正式來做公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4283.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4300.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
委員 其實特別說明一下 其實圖資的部分我們歷年在海底電纜或管道在鋪設的時候就已經收集所有相關圖資都已經建置完畢當然分了兩個區塊 一個是提供這些船舶他們船舶上面有ADIS系統 都會載我們國內發行的ENC圖資 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4304.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4326.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
在另外一個各部會借機的部分我們也提供給海偶會 那海巡署那甚至是海港局去做借機未來再做船舶管控上海港都可以搜尋到是有一個圖資系統所以剛剛那個副署長有說嘛要做正式的一個公告嘛雖然過去我想我們可以搜尋到這些資料可是我們沒有因為既然海欄企劃我們是加重 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4327.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4347.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
好那加重之後我們就跟大家說哪裡是有我們的圖資的我們正式要去做公告我覺得這個動作一定要做雖然我們已經以前就有了可是很多人都會當成沒看到那我們就正式公告在哪一個地方有我們整個海底相關電纜的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4349.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4360.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
所有管線的一個圖資那麼這個部分跟他們說明之後我們要去執法比較不會有收債是不是那個內政部可以這樣做呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4361.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4383.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
特別跟委員說明一下其實海嵐或管道精確的路由去做公告這之前已經有討論過那其實我們當時有收集到像李安豐店廠商他們覺得如果政府機關要公告這些很精確的海嵐圖資那他們會有一些疑慮啦比如說會有特別有心人士會去做勾勞啦所以當時是有考慮過我們現在就是要沒有啊我們現在已經加重罰則了就跟你說不行啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4389.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4414.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
你自己還要去跟別人碰法 觸法那就是你的問題啊在之前我們海覽棋法沒有訂的時候可能會有這樣的疑慮嘛因為他故意去做勾斷的動作我們也無法可管啊但現在已經棋法已經做了甚至航管法跟商港法都要修了如果是這樣子的話我們如果沒有一個宣示性 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4415.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4432.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我告訴你最後在檢調判刑的時候或是要去做知失之處分的時候都會有問題所以我覺得這個很重要雖然我們已經有了這個離岸風電的他會擔心可是我們已經跟你說不行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4433.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4460.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
你自己要做 那當然我們的法就要出動啦所以我覺得 既然我們已經重演了就不要考慮那麼多 以前是沒有法則 所以怕他去把你故意勾斷你也無法可管 也沒有辦法去做強制處分現在是可以了所以我覺得內政部這個公告未來減少在訴訟的爭議這個很重要 再麻煩大家 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4475.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4502.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
謝謝邱盈瑩委員 謝謝那我們現在請鄭天才委員質詢好 主席 各位委員 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4503.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4514.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我們請部長部長好首先還是要謝謝這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4516.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4542.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
经济部 水利署以及各国营事业的公司在这次花莲马太安西艳赛福溃坝所造成的灾害这些大家都很辛苦的来谢委员几乎每天都去关心谢谢委员我们还有很多要继续努力的地方是 是 是 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4543.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4565.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我們先談今天的主題,你們的報告裡面特別提到,我國近年周邊海域已多次發生因大量抽砂造成海濫、裸露並損害。基本上這個主要的情形是怎樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4567.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4579.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
這個跑到海邊海域去抽砂是為了我們的砂石嗎還是砂石的供應嗎還是其他的工程這個有誰可以說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4582.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4607.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
是不是海委會來說明一下因為這是你們的報告在馬祖還是哪裡因為是寫在經濟部的報告在111年以後基本上就沒有之前在馬祖有大量抽砂對 早期我知道這近幾年沒有吧111年之後 111年之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4609.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4625.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
幾乎就沒有110年最後一次有扣押以後就不要再引用了是是是不然我會認為是因為我們臺灣的沙已經夠多了因為土石採取法跟大陸交通法這個東沙北運都沒有辦法促成了是那個都已經修法過了好好好謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4631.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4651.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
有關花東地區的自來水沿管工程過去本席會因應不同的狀況所以正好遇到0918地震不幸事件的時候我就特別請水利署 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4652.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4674.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
也請國發會來去協助所以這個部分當初這個部長當初也同意從發動基金從國發會的發動基金裡面來支應當然這個已經期限已經過了但是我們還是要去追蹤整個辦理情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4675.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4700.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
所以請那個看水利署還是自來水公司在會後再把這個0918地震花東地區自來水沿廣工程當初的計畫然後實際上目前已經辦理的一個情形能夠提供素面資料好的好我們看這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4702.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4702.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
113年11月18號這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4707.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4725.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
行政院核定無自來水地區供水改善計畫第五期的部分這個第五期是從114年度到118總共5年那整個經費這個中央公共建設預算96.5億元自來水公司事業預算6.5億然後華東地區永續發展基金3億元總共106億 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4735.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4743.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
當然是從今年開始執行我要講的是說這個花東地區過去長期以來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4748.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4776.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
因為相關資源畢竟還是有限所以就這個五次來水的情形非常的多而且很多都刪了 刪期了所以才會過去就去協調國發會同意用花東基金來去去支應那個多支應像這樣的一個已經有了這樣的預算經費那就會涉及到跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4777.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4805.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
地方政府還包含了這個相關的這些用地的啟德用地的啟德各方面就會涉及到所以怎麼樣去多溝通協調好不容易有這樣的經費能夠把它落實的執行而且尤其是原住民的部分因為這邊有原住民的部分一定要以部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4806.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4824.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
不是用原住民地區這個很大的範圍像花東都是原住民族地區那對原住民部落還是所以我也在強調的是我們的經費的支應的一些比例有定一個比例嗎有定這個比例所以一定要以部落 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4825.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4845.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
要以部落為主體來去定這個比例這樣的話才那個落實當初這個行政院所同意所核定的這個部分這是我再次的來請這個經濟部水利署包括自來水公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4846.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4873.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
能夠去加強這個確實在執行的時候能夠一定要往這樣的一個這個當初的規定已經算是規定了因為你們在整個執行的時候就是從這是從毛志國當院長開始同意的就是原住民的部落跟原住民部落因為那個比例會定那個什麼單位成本嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4874.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4894.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那個長度啊單位成本回去算我們過去都永遠吃虧啊所以現在是一部落的話就單獨一個比例在那邊的話就會這個對我們才是這個公平的所以這個部分也請這個經濟部水利署自然水公司那個落實的執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4895.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4912.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那最後這個表這個是你們所提供的這個數據當然這個是一個我們要努力達成能夠繼續努力的地方那最後一個時間的關係這個光復鄉大興村沿廣封城這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4921.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4947.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
也有涉及到很多機關的用地用地的部分所以這個部分要請這個自來水公司如果哪些部會的用地還沒有完成的要希望能夠主動告訴我我來去協調相關的部會因為現在鄉公所很忙他也是受災 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4948.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
4968.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
相公所一樓也是受災他忙的這個根本就沒有時間去協調了所以我就尤其很多都是涉及到相關的部會有的是涉及到鐵路用地我所知道的是好像還有其他的用地所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
4969.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
4993.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
還是你了解一些目前的狀況嗎 新的進度跟委員報告 我想這個案子的協調我們到時候會請委員來跟我們指導一下來協調整個相關的單位 這樣處理會比較快對 所以那個部分你先書面提供給我就是哪些還要協調的 還要解決的 哪些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
4994.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5002.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
涉及到哪些機關提供給我我再去協調好不好 謝謝謝謝鄭天才委員的質詢謝謝謝謝備詢人員 謝謝我們請張祺凱委員質詢謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5038.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5061.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
南園署 南園署謝謝 現在公布長 公布長 謝謝詹委員好 公布長 拜一就前天 臺灣有好多個環保團體到行政院跟立法院來陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5063.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5085.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
他們抗議的是說包括烏山頭水庫設這個光電板等他們說最近光電有十大亂象所以他們提出了十大這個訴求我看你們經濟部回應也蠻快的你們當天的下午就對於他們的訴求有提出這個回應這部分的快速回應我要加以肯定不過呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5086.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5111.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我看你們的這個回應的新聞稿啊好像出現了前後矛盾這環保團體明確要求說有些地方設光電板要納入環評包括國家公園以及環境敏感區我看你的新聞裡面回應你說 來 博定你看一下這是你們自己發的新聞稿嘛是回應的嘛你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5113.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5137.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
一級環境敏感區山坡地等訴求都已經納入有嗎 目前你們跟環境部你們兩位都猛點頭有確定有納入嗎環評法裡面國家公園 野生動物保護區還有這個山坡地如果超過15公頃以上的就是你這邊現在都要環評現行的規定就是要環評 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5138.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5167.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這些規定一級環境敏感區我找你叫你們我印出來喔你們這個標準裡面沒有出現這個字眼是一級這個是一個我不曉得怎麼去定義但是我們明確的就是國家公園還有山坡地如果是沒有沒有沒有不定不定國家公園跟山坡地是另外的一級環境敏感區是另外專有名詞是一個明定的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5168.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5187.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那裡面沒有嘛 我跟你講一級敏感地區我們本來就不會核准他本來就禁止來來來 這專有名詞耶你頂法律要照條文來這個是內政部國土署環境敏感地區查詢平台上面寫的這不能隨便 隨便亂講耶來 看一下22項包括什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5197.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5214.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
包括第21項水庫的集水區包括水庫的蓄水範圍有嗎所以保定你們現在是已經公布說包括烏山頭水庫包括所有的水庫蓄水範圍的全部都要做環評嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5216.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5232.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這個水庫跟那個蓄水方案因為它一定有法令的規定所以我們是依照其他法令所以你看你這個新聞稿就自打嘴巴了嘛你講的這個一級環境敏感區這個是專有名詞是明定的我現在給你看的是國土屬清清楚楚名列的 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5233.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5252.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
那如果照這樣就是你就跟全國公布好消息啦就包括現在開始水庫上面的任何光電板都要還平啦是不是這樣結果沒有嘛你們又沒有還沒做這個嘛 對不對所以你這個新聞稿是不是有漏洞用字引起的誤會甚至是自己前後就矛盾了嘛所以我們把它更正好好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5254.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5274.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
好 這個我們可以來釐清 如果它裡面有特別反應的話你看你的新聞 回來回到新聞館再看一下你說把一級的敏感區域已經全部都納入嘛結果你下面又寫一個說其他項目 例如說水庫的水面你們正在做這個相關的檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5277.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5301.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
這個就前後矛盾了嘛所以趕快更正好不好好OK我本來以為是好消息我今天本來很期待說如果不是前後矛盾就是你們已經因為像我們台灣民眾黨就明確我們也在討論我們要求說5公頃設置光電板5公頃以上1萬千瓦以上的就要環評嘛你們說還沒訂嘛對不對所以你這個新聞稿是有錯誤的嘛趕快把它更正好好不好好來趕快把它更正好接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5302.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5331.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
是不是出現了環境部打臉了經濟部啊來我看您來我們看下一張你講到這個水庫上面光電板水上光電板這個到底有沒有毒的你們發了一個新聞稿說啊經過你們這個專業的這個測試啊RO逆滲透水這個浸泡毀壞光電板這光電板毀壞了破碎了你們去做了實驗七天以後水質跟這個飲用水標準還是符合的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5332.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5333.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
那我就要問很重要那三個月後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5337.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5359.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
這個水質的測試那麼我們自然水公司它進水的時候每天都有做測試那剛才講這個是工研院當時做的7日測試當然要做更長也可以我說你說7天安全我說三個月以後有安全嗎來我看一下你看你們的標準你們的飲水飲水安全的標準是什麼用鉛來做你們的飲水安全是1公升0.01毫克對不對這個是合乎標準對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5366.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5385.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
好來看一下這是環境部做的環境部做的喔上去環境部的網站上面看那個投影片現在都還找得到他說把光電板破碎浸泡一個月跟三個月的千的溶出量 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5387.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5403.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這邊紅胎 咖哩這邊 但那是紅胎 光電板不是被破壞了對不對破碎啦 有些沉到水裡面去啦 那來看依照環境部的這個模擬容數的簽在一個月的時候 0.00076到了三個月 0.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5411.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5427.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
保證0.298這個容數非常嚴重耶這就是已經超過你的飲水水質的標準你剛才看的安全就是0.01嘛 對不對它是那幾倍它是幾倍它有兩個很重要 來來保證你們說安全是0.01對不對這個是水源啦 0.029是在水源區嘛水源區的話是0.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5439.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5446.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
對 0.05的標準那你要飲用水還要經過過濾處理等等一些情況那為什麼環境部要去做烏山土的這個水質的測驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5448.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5470.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
你看這是他們做的啊本來你整個水庫的水質就是要做測驗啊文建部也這樣做啊那我給你看他做出來的來上一張做出來的他做出來的是什麼包括烏山頭水庫的你如他去取樣嘛對不對他說如果浸泡完之後一個月請你對我說七天沒問題嘛對不對他一個月沒問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5471.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5482.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
可是沙龜的問題它有兩個很嚴重的問題第一個它超標的你們說的安全的標準沒有沒有超標它是小於0.05它是小於0.05這個飲用的這個水質飲用水源右邊那個呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5488.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5507.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那個是你說的是水質那是處理後的 右邊那個是處理完以後我們對啊所以他們全部就是環境部全部這兩個都做嘛你懂我意思嗎那你至少對當然水質水源水質是要符合的水質當然也是要標準的啊你先來看我先來講兩個重點第一個來聽我講第一他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5514.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5535.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
0.029超過了原來的水值標準的3倍更嚴重是什麼不是不是做個比較1月份你聽我說啦民眾有這個疑問嘛我們開過會很多民眾在投訴這個事情嘛1月到3月增加幾倍39.2倍就表示你這個事情保定只要你這個事情沒有做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5537.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5561.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
他的毒鉛的溶出量一直在增加嘛一個月你自己新聞稿跟民眾講說7天7天沒問題對不對你們自己也做檢測說7天沒問題啊結果一個月已經開始慢慢有問題了更嚴重的過三個月多了39.2倍那現在嚴重在什麼地方我現在跟你講一個很重要的不只是環境部他們自己去做的烏山頭水質還做了這個破碎的這個整個測驗那我們看下一張嘉義這邊紅苔 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5567.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5590.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
聯合報啊 聯合報在9月19號 就是颱風過後的兩個多月 聯合報喔 去做專題報導 去追裡面還有很多的是毀壞的光電板 還躺在水裡我到了三個月 就剛剛講了 過了三個月 我在那邊幫你看對不對裡面有很多光電板 說禮拜一很多這個環保團體來 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5593.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5621.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
來陳情的時候 他們特別提什麼森林城市協會的理事長莊傑任他怎麼說他說這邊虹胎造成的這個製虹紙或者水面的這個整個掉到裡面去 他說什麼光電板存入水下 難以打撈清楚我現在在問你一個月到三個月增加那麼多到現在有些可能都還沒清出來現在怎麼樣 鉛一直在釋出嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5622.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5642.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
簽的容量還一直在釋出嘛你到現在可能還簽不乾淨我可以講一個很重要的很多民眾在旁邊像那個嘉義市志宏寺旁邊有很多民眾在那邊垂釣釣回去那個魚有民眾叫我今天問你啦說那個魚如果釣回來給部長吃給能源署署長吃 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5648.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5676.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
我說我不要這樣問你可是你們是不是有責任志鴻池不能有魚啦志鴻池不能有魚志鴻池不能有魚每個志鴻池都買有魚你等一下去看你每次去都買看到有人在那邊垂釣不行啊裡面就是有魚啊所以民眾說叫我問你啊說釣回來給你吃好不好我說不要這樣問部長你們的責任就是趕快把它打撈乾淨然後更重要的不要讓那個鉛繼續存在危害民眾好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5678.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5700.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
我們還是會持續檢驗啦因為我們原水的部分只要進到我們飲用水的部分原水就會檢驗一次飲用水也會檢驗一次啦剛目前為止來講的話都沒有消除了氫的容量 容息量非常的少而且人體危害很厲害好不好而且我剛剛已經跟你講他一直在講他影響有多大來一看氫對健康有多大影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5702.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5716.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
幾乎對人體內所有器官跟系統都有影響所以我們取水的時候取水點就會檢測取水點那個部分就會檢測所以你要盡量減少嘛 對不對來 我給你看它的傷害有多大嘛影響成人跟孩童的神經系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5717.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5746.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
然後他不要講長期曝露只要曝露就導致會貧血血壓升高特別是小孩子你看下面這個我幫你整理了謝謝我們是美國部長你把詳細的資料能夠跟我們的委員做報告這個很重要不要有讓人家誤解的地方再麻煩部長謝謝因為時間已經到了我儘快一分鐘儘快做結論來往下跑我現在跟你講特別對小孩影響很大那日本都發生了 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5747.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5775.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
在水庫上面的它不是飲水的它是一般的灌溉用的發生了這個風災的時候火災那光電板當然那個簽了那個壞掉以後簽那個容數就更嚴重了對不對結果發現要去消防要去滅火非常的困難在台灣發生的是什麼看來台灣經濟山馬台南這個漁電工生也發生了那個光電板起火消防人員沒辦法馬上去救火你知道嗎水是倒體嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5777.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5801.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
對不對會顛倒耶所以我說光電板火災或者是它發生有災難的時候你們要怎麼救災避免光電板壞掉以後融到水裡面牽絲是不是這個要做好最後我做這個訴求來OK第一個趕快去釐清剛剛你承認的那個你所謂的水庫或水面上水上行的光電板你到底什麼狀況下要做環評你剛剛承認那個新聞稿有錯誤對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5802.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5814.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
所以趕快去把它更正把標準把它明確的定出來那第二個目前有很多地方包括水庫自動死上面都有光電板你要去加強它的安全維護好不好第三個很重要 剛才說的打撈 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5815.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5839.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那環保團體前天來行政院就跟你們講嘛打撈不乾淨那你們要趕快去打撈要想想辦法不能讓那個籤這樣一直在釋出好不好然後剛剛講的就是如果發生這個災難的時候怎麼樣去救活要有一個指引做演練好不好好 謝謝謝謝謝謝張旗開委員質詢謝謝我們部長跟所有相關同仁的一個答詢我們現在請呂奕林委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5851.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5854.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
謝謝主席 請工部長我們請工部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5860.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5884.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
劉元豪部長 近年來在台澎金馬周遭的海域海底的纜線頻頻遭受到破壞所以我們在9月18號的時候通過了海纜七法的修正草案今天在我們經濟委員會我們特別排了海纜三法電液法跟天然氣事業法跟自來水法 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5886.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5910.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那我們就是要來保護我們這個海底這個基礎的設施不要受到破壞部長但是本席認為說雖然說我們修法可以來很重要可以來保護這些措施但是除了提供我們執法的法源依據之外最重要的是我們經濟部的職責在發生這些事情的時候我們可以有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5912.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5938.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
監測的方法跟我們的維護的管道尤其是要強化海底纜線的平常時的安全的監測跟保護的維修的這些事情如果發生了被破壞或者是說有異常的現象的時候經濟部你的職責是應該趕快的如何跟相關的一些部會進行合作才對吧是不是你如何進行合作是 執行端因為海巡在幫我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5939.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5964.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
海上的这个执法是海巡在帮我们执法感谢他们如果事情一发生我们会跟他联系的赶快去处理是那因为这些个法很重要啦我们现在法都修出来了也有刑法也有罚金那最严重的话也有扣船这些事情但是就如同你讲的内政部还有我们海巡署但是你这个法 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5964.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5980.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
正式通過之後要立即公告你要讓所有人知道這個法在這邊不要來觸法這樣子才能有效預防去嚇阻他們去犯法這個才是很重要的啦這個一定要嚴格去執行好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5981.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6010.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
接下來就是要跟部長來談一談就是我們的丹納斯颱風過後很多受災的縣市輸配電的系統都受到損壞大概台灣的電力設施都是會面臨到的就是整個颱風或者豪大雨這個韌性不足所以行政院的我們的卓院長特別針對電纜進行地下化的評估希望你們做出一個全國性電纜地下化可行性的評估報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6011.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6021.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
但是本席看到你的報告裡面只有六頁都在老生常談而且講的都是在你已經在做的一些電纜的配電的設施跟我們電網的這個整個設施的計畫根本就沒有分析到說我們哪些地方要做電纜地下化還有它的期程還有預算多少這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6033.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6051.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
都沒有進一步的來做說我們要如何去推動那你這些都沒有提那所以本席想請問你你今天提出來的這個報告只是初步的報告嗎還是未來你有更詳細的全面的報告總經理跟王總報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6053.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6074.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
这次丹纳斯台风的那个条例台电分配到的预算80亿那我们80亿呢那一条溃线下地的成本是4200万所以各位委员就可以知道说我们能做的地下化的溃线的公里数大概只有200公里左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6074.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6091.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
兩百公里呢我們分析預算不足就編預算本席今天跟你談的就是我們卓院長要你全面去檢討一下我們所有電纜地下化的評估為什麼要做地下化就是碰到颱風碰到豪大雨我們的韌性不足啊是不是用地下化 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6092.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6106.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
我知道有些地段也許說地形的問題不適合做地下化但是你要評估出來嘛哪些路段要可以做了我們就要做啊你把整個計畫要怎麼去推動預算需要多少這些時程你都要規劃出來不是嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6107.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6132.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們會詳細的規劃一個比較完整的所以你今天的六月都沒有講嘛但是預算的部分也要請委員多多支持我們一定會支持但是你要把所有的評估出來另外一個就是因應國際變遷的特別預算部長這些都知道我是說今天的六月報告沒有看到這些評估所以這個評估只是你初步的嗎你未來有沒有具體的詳細的 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6134.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6142.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
包括整個的騎乘電纜的地下的路段跟我們的預算多少的時程你通透給我詳細的報告嗎會嗎可以詳細整個什麼時候會出來但是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6148.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6172.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
那個預算我們還是啦就是比較必要性的而且需要性的急迫性的那個部分先來做啦因為如果要全面的話那個成本上實在是太高了部長這叫你評估報告不是要跟我們要預算你要把所有的評估報告出來全國哪些地段要做地下化的 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6173.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6193.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
怎麼去推動你需要的預算的時程怎麼去做預算的分配這個告訴我們你才可以編預算才可以去推動啊今天本席沒有看到本席沒有看到所以這個只是在你們紙上唐冰嗎還是老生常談他你要如何地下化 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6194.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6223.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這些我們通通知道了具體的工作報告可以嗎王總經理你多少時間三個月時間提出報告好不好那接下來本席還在提的還是因為說我們電網防災的這個韌性是非常的重要台電的整個施工的工作量也非常的有限所以是不是因為有時候救災的時候會壓縮到各縣市原先電纜地下化的工程的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6224.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6245.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
是不是這樣子跟委員報告我知道委員很關心桃園市的基層的這些檢修人力所以這邊看到大概有430人那跟委員報告從110年的406人開始我們就逐年逐年到112年就變410人到113年就變423所以事實上是對桃園區數是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6251.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6275.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
請部長您看看我今天呈現給你的數字六都裡面我們比台北市多一點430人這430人在去年的時候還是407人這半個這個一年的時間增加了20幾個人我們還是缺人而且這件事情被監察院給彈劾了監察院特別指出來說你110 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6278.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6290.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
2年的8月到113年的4月桃園地區發生了無預警的停電317件裡面有44件就是工作人員檢修人員不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6291.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6316.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
所以我的人員少是不是因為減輸的也不夠這些人員你需要補什麼時候給我們補齊呢委員也知道台電的人員補充事實上是需要一些考試的過程要訓練的過程所以真正能夠補到桃園區處也需要一點時間要一點時間那什麼時候可以補足因為你看到六度來講我們人數是最少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6317.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6337.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我們那邊桃園整個現在正在發展也有工業區還有重劃區等等所以我希望你把人員補足這樣子的話我們尋檢人員檢查的人員多了才會把預防性不會讓我們隨時都不預警的跳電好不好好 我們會再用比較科學的方法來補助這一塊補助人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6338.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6366.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
還要用科學的方法不是啦就是你把人員聘進來就好了配合科學的方式來增加這個人員尋檢的效率來人員要夠他尋檢就會夠你尋檢夠了他檢修人員就會維護的更好好不好這是很重要的事情請你正視我們桃園的問題是是是謝謝謝謝呂玉玲委員的資訊謝謝謝謝部長還有總經理我們現在請邱志維委員資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6375.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6401.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
謝謝主席 有請龔部長跟水利署署長我們請龔部長跟水利署署長 謝謝部長 邱委員好大概之前我提到過在北高雄的選區還有五條沒有規劃的試管區牌這部分我希望能夠盡快啟動自己計畫大概在陸竹有兩三條 永安還有橋頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6403.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6423.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
這部分是水利應該是水利署要去協助地方水利局的這個署長 麻煩你了解一下好不好好就是這個都是我的選區這些都很重要那如果水利局沒有水利署的協助跟指導的話很難去進行所以這部分是不是請署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6426.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6428.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
第二個議題想請教就是能源轉型的韌性 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6450.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6480.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
當然這個部分我們幾個能源轉型必須要克服的重大議題第一個能源結構太集中化大概天然氣天然氣的儲量又不夠就天數也不足第二個就那種防禦力不足防禦力不足是不夠全面這主要是以氣候跟設備事故為主如果暫時的時候有駭客入侵等等往暫時的攻擊 能源封鎖等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6481.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6487.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個也應該納入電網防疫力的提升另外轉型的能源轉型的戰略空隙 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6488.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6515.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
所以我從反核到反核反對的反到反回的反所以你如果要到反回核電那可以最能夠接受或者比較有共識的是用SMR但是SMR你要成熟商轉大概10年以上跑不掉所以在這種情況你那個綠電但是能源也上不來的話你這個戰略空區去怎麼處理所以第二個問題請教一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6516.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6541.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
這個台電在5000多億的這個韌性計畫裡面有沒有包括在暫時的戰略防護總經理不過因為那個5000多億主要是大型的超高壓電網的分散是 所以這部分並沒有包括防害啊或者暫時的攻擊等等這主要是說這個供電的穩定嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6543.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6561.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
跟委員報告我們五六四五億是用於輸電級的韌性的強化輸電的穩定包括極端氣候的影響等等但並沒有包括在暫時的這些因應是 我們配電級還有另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6562.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6583.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
計畫在進行 如果沒有的話我是建議針對這個防禦力的部分要增加到這個如果暫時的時候怎麼樣確保這個供電的穩定跟強化電網的防禦力這部分可能要有一個另外的計畫啦是 而不是在這五六十五億裡面特別針對暫時的時候這不曉得這個部長您的意見怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6588.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6607.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
對 那個因為剛剛提到的這個5000多億主要是因為上一次我們那個超高壓電的那個太過集中在一個地方所以我們把它比較多元就是說極端氣候造成了供電的不穩定嘛那這個部分是針對這個部分來做強化那我剛剛所提到就是說如果暫時的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6609.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6616.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
在暫時發生的時候 它成為供給的目標的時候我們怎麼樣去讓它的韌性更強化所以你們可能另外再提一個計畫那個王總 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6620.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6647.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
這個部分有在準備了 有在準備這個可能某些部分是不宜再太公開有在準備了 有在準備我就比較安心了那另外你們對SMR相關的研究可能也要一定的期生表SMR可能是未來可能的一個核能發電的一個一個一個措施跟作為這部分你可能要有一個明確的時生表那我們的對SMR立場是怎麼樣可能也要瞭解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6648.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6664.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
因为现在研究方的话是核管所他们有投入大概四年大概是几亿的经费八亿的经费还是多少正在做研理那对经济部来讲的话将来如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6665.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6694.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
SMR的话我们是使用方是应用方所以我们密切的观察研发方跟我们无关我是用其他的技术我们现在密切观察因为全世界虽然叫SMR但就有不同的冷却技术正在都在推动当中我们是在应用阶段对我们是观察说哪些它结果在推动以后商转结果对我们来讲是最合适的那我们就可以应用那一个我们是应用面对 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6694.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6710.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
另外這個關鍵的礦產這變成說大家不管是美日雙方或者是美中雙方在角力的一個重要的戰略物資這部分歐洲已經有關鍵原物料法 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6711.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6724.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
那李署長也在 還有台電王佐也在我們有沒有建立相關的關鍵礦物的保健供應的措施啊或者關鍵礦物的保障回收的相關的這個作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6726.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6749.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
现在经济部有没有相关规划我们现在有一个计划打算从明年就开始推动分成两个部分一个当然是跟国际间整个因为我们是属于需求方供应链里面的需求方虽然是间接需求需求方就要确保稳定供应对第一个是配合国际间他们整体的应用的做法这是第一个第二个我们本身的部分我们本身的部分来讲的话 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6751.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6772.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
有兩個一個是透過既有的這些回收再提煉再精煉另外一個我們事實上也跟有一些稀土的生產供應者怎麼樣讓我們台灣這個能不能提升到國與國的合作國與國的你現在是跟個別廠商嘛能不能提升到國與國比如主要的這些供應國 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6774.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6794.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
國與國的話就剛剛提到的就是國際供應鏈他們會有一致性的一個做法包括歐盟也好 美國也好 日本也好中國依靠它的稀土或者重要的礦產跟美國談判的一個重要的武器 對不對所以我們必須要跟確保我們供應沒有問題所以必須要國與國做一些的協商或者協議我們有沒有針對供應國或者來源國有一些國際協議 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6803.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6830.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
有一些我不方便讲是哪一国家但是有跟我们在做一些讨论必须确保它的供应没有问题这不仅是国家安全这也是产业的问题另外这个临安风电临安风电现在如果国产当初是国产化那国产化如果松绑之后那中国的一些经验包括钢铁包括石化等等面板这个都是用低价 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6831.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6847.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
去搶它的市場那如果國產化升榜之後會不會用這個中國用紅色的這個供應鏈用低價滲透讓我們國產化受到這個相關的影響因為我們禁止用中國的相關的零食品但如果它是洗產地之類的你們能擦得出來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6849.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6863.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
我們會查所以不能說讓中國的這些低價的變成說我們離岸風電的主要的這個來源或者是這個主要供應商這不行另外2025風電的這個你們目標現在有沒有在調整風電的裝置能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6869.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6872.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
5.7吧是不是還是多少5.3是到什麼時候到5.35.3是什麼時候的目標2025我們現在2026年的11月會達到 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6884.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6905.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
現在大概將近是3點多GigaWatt對啊 3而已嘛 3出頭嘛但是我們大概今年年底陸續還會有新的電廠完工那你覺得在2026 現在馬上2026了喔你可以到5.3嗎是是是你可以如期達標可以 我們現在的計畫看起來推進到目前為止大概都順利那是很順利嗎是 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6909.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6936.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
對 就是說我們現在大概要完工是我們Face 1 Face 2服飾的風電呢服飾的部分呢浮動式的是不是那個是正在朝你跟郭方方向也會往前不過那個是比較稍微沒有包括在5.3裡面沒有包括在這裡面5.3你們這個署長你說是很順利在推動所以明年底可以達標明年的11月是我們現在要完工是 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6937.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6962.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
所以我觉得有任何障碍法律上的问题政治上的问题一定要让业者开发商很清楚了解是是是我觉得他们这个跌跌撞撞一路走来好像碰到很多的问题一开始确实蛮多问题的到逾越问题补偿问题还有供应链的问题不过现在推动已经陆陆续续完成目前我们在商转的大概就有440座离岸风电风机了 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6963.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6979.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
另外嘉青站目前全國只有兩座一個在台南一個在高雄那未來對嘉青站我們未來推動的目標是怎麼樣這個主委你當主委的時候你推動的 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6987.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7005.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
現在是示範性示範性然後呢中期目標呢因為你說2050我們有10%的發電要靠氫能那現在目前這個進度就根本就停滯不前只有兩座示範那個嘉青站目前終於有已經蓋好那我們是跟交通部合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7005.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7023.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
它是所謂的低碳運輸低碳載具部分那我們會配合交通部交通部會配合提供氫能公車那我們會依照交通部的規劃哪裡它有氫能公車的路線那我們中油公司就去搭配設這個氫能加氫站 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7023.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7039.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
你一定要明確的政策指引因為這個成本很高技術也沒有非常成熟你還在示範對不對還在示範需求也不是那麼穩定是業者要不要去有信心去投入投入 他沒有信心他不能投入目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7039.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7061.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
目前我們是要補貼交通部因為這個計畫是交通部的無碳載具裡面的交通部補貼公車那我們會補助清冷戰略不清楚半途而廢或者是沒有辦法順利推動新達海就是這樣子新達海最後你看五六十一賠掉了國產化也沒有達成技術也沒有上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7062.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7088.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
到最後他還是一樣要終止我怕這個 你說2050有10%這個是部長您當主委的時候你提出的這個願景目標那現在你還在示範對 現在是在示範沒有錯對 你要有明確的戰略目標這怎麼政策要怎麼去導引短中長期要有我覺得你只是兩個示範那個示範那個高雄那個台南做完就沒有下一步了 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7090.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7114.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
因为氢能的部分它有分成几个部分一个是怎么样产氢然后氢怎么运输然后第三个是运用那应用的话刚刚提到的车用的部分是一部分那它也可以用来可能会用来发电那个就是您刚刚提到的可能将来可能接近10%可以用我们国家的氢能政策在哪里对 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7114.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7137.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
但是现在我们缺的问题就是那个产轻跟运送轻这个是一个比较大的问题国际间现在也一直在讨论这个部分日本是比较早开始但是运输的部分他们也遭遇到一些成本上的一些问题不过我们还是会持续地看看日本的经验我们可以学习但是他们比我们大概早了15、20年是谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7140.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7168.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
谢谢邱志伟委员咨询谢谢部长还有我们相关单位的备讯那我们等杨琼英委员咨询完后我们就休息那我们请谢一封委员咨询谢谢主席我想要请龚部长还有李署长龚部长还有署长李署长 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7171.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7186.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
部长早谢委员好我想请问一下就是说我们三大国际的公有云业者像Amazon然后GoogleMicrosoft都在全台湾设立这样子或者是已经设立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7186.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7212.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那它要扩大我们区域的资料中心那代表了下一个世代我们台湾会进入了这样子多云竞争的这个局面那我想要请问一下就是再加上你们所说的AI新十大建设你们要投入311亿的预算 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7212.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7238.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
那對於未來AI以及相關這樣子的多元競爭的總電力需求我想要請問一下你們有沒有做重新的評估還是你們維持了去年或者就是過去你們所預估平均每年就是2.8%這樣子的一個年成長量或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7239.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7262.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
當然我們知道的你過去是平均2.8%那會不會這個平均會在前幾年有一種爆炸性的這樣子需求的增加而導致目前我們的電網有沒有辦法負荷這樣子相關的電力的增加呢有沒有辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7263.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7283.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
报告委员事实上我们电力上的需求跟供应每年都在滚动式的检讨那电力工序报告也会出报告那事实上您刚才提到比较大型的业者他们如果要设立Data Center也好或是什么事实上他都要跟我们联合署跟台电公司来先说明 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7284.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7310.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
有電他才有辦法去做這個事情就是說包括工業區的開發業或是什麼他們必須要讓我們知道就是說他們可能需要的電力需求多少我們要去預作一些準備那所以更為報告就是過去到至少到2032年之前他們的比較重要的這些這個設施將來可能要運作的部分我們大概都已經有掌握了那也做了一些因應的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7311.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7321.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
更详细的是不是请署长那请署长说一下这个我们都纳入估计那我们怎么估计有三个来源第一个就是他做还品的时候 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7322.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7340.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
那麼我們就知道他這個電廠送還品的他大概需要多少用電量第二個就是說他在真正建廠前大概三年以前他就要跟台電公司申請供電那另外一個資料我們是來自於我們的產發署那他會掌握這些企業比較長期的脈動 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7341.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7351.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那我們就是把這個三個資料加在一起互相比對那我們每年會滾動檢討檢討完我們會出電力供需報告大概每年我們都會這樣子滾動再檢討所以會隨著它的實際的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7356.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7385.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們每年都會來調這個數字好 那理能源署也提到了你們要做三個即時的建設就是新機組電網變電所的變更還有儲能還有以及我們所有目前的新建的所有發電的機組還有電網升級那我想要請問你們這樣子即時的就是建設你們現在目前進度如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7386.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7403.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那你說了要跟業界就是說這些用電的新的需求NVIDIA還沒來喔那等到它來的時候那未來你們要怎麼樣子有一個及時的這樣子一個調配的中心嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7403.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7425.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
就是關於就是電力的需求的即時的調配中心嗎那未來因應整個AI建設的需求的時候你才有辦法有一個調配的中心嘛你沒有調配的中心的時候這樣用電需求如果突然有爆炸性的成長的時候你怎麼樣子做那你怎麼樣子去協調 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7426.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7456.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
是 报告这个电力的调配那就分为长期的跟及时短期的长期的就是我们每年会去检讨它的电力需求是多少所以像NVIDIA这种它的用电不会突然产生的它一定是在它几年前规划盖厂的时候我们就会要求它提出来那获得核准但是你只看到NVIDIA但是跟着NVIDIA相关的对不对整个供应链的或者是其他的共同需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7456.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7481.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
因為所有比較大型的蓋的廠通常蓋的廠大概都有兩年到三年那通常他要蓋這個廠之前他會有一個計畫那我們就會掌握所以就是說會把它算在如果已經核准他這個計畫我們就會把它算在裡面你們就會把它算在用電需求裡面那目前用電需求就是用電供應有沒有問題王總跟委員報告整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7485.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7509.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
就是未来的这个AI产业所造成的对电力系统的冲击这个部分我们其实是随时都跟这些业者在联络知道说他们未来的需求在哪里然后会布在哪里但是我们也会跟他们说怎么去安排比如说以做AIDC的那个资料中心来讲我们就会跟他们讲我们的电厂我们的 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7510.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7532.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
变电锁会盖在什么地方那它盖在什么地方比较适合所以我们会做互相的这个界界来让这个部分的用电能够很顺畅这是在应用端至于生产端的部分大概就是伺服器的生产这个部分它的生产用电跟平常的伺服器的生产用电是差不多的所以这个是没有影响的至于某些比较大的那个 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7533.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7553.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
半導體的製造的公司的生產用電也都是長期在觀察同時在互相接觸然後預知什麼時候會用電所以我們都有做長期的規劃跟分析因為這個東西我們現在正在進行的除了就是AI的建設以外我們還要將AI導入我們不同的方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7554.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7581.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
當然還有在生產製造啦整個不管是教育啦觀光或什麼都要在導入這個AI的過程當中那你前端的那個作業沒有做好的情況下那我們後端就沒有辦法進行喔那就這個部分喔希望說台電能源署以及經濟部喔就這個整體的用電需求以及未來的這樣子的調配的問題能夠緊述的處理可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7582.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7609.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
谢谢委员指导因为这一题对台电而言是很严肃的一个问题所以我们会慎重看待而且会谨慎把它处理好目前也朝这方面在进行当中可是我们也担心会缺电你知道吗我们都有提前准备我们也担心会缺电所以对于就是说这种供电瓶颈会不会产生现在是冬天了夏天的时候用电通常都是用电需求的高峰 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7610.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7627.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
那當然了現在是冬天問你這個問題一般的民眾或者大家都不會在意可是等到了在明年再來做這樣子相關的檢討的時候我們必須要知道的是你供電的瓶頸在哪裡啊你現在都說沒問題還要再說咧 明年如果跳電的時候咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7630.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7653.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
跟委員報告他的可能會遇到瓶頸式電源端就是電廠的建設來得及來不及這我們都提前在規劃了至於說他的輸電線的瓶頸的部分我們就如剛才跟委員報告的我們會引導他在變電所的周邊就直接蓋所以當我們要蓋他們要蓋那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7653.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7680.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
应用中心的时候我们就就近从变电锁拉过去所以那个距离都很短所以在瓶颈方面都可以锈地克服跟解决所以NVIDIA没有办法盖来这张画的原因就是因为变电锁不是它可能是两个地方一个是一个是办公室一个是用电的资料中心这两个是可以分开的中间的讯号都是用透过光纤所以是没有问题的好谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7682.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7703.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
謝謝謝鋒委員的資訊謝謝謝謝部長還有總經理相關單位我們現在請賴瑞榮委員資訊好謝謝召委我先請海巡署的謝副署長跟國安局的陳處長我們請謝副署長跟陳處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7707.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7734.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
委員好我先請教謝部長主委在昨天有發了文又載有漁船來到我們擔心它對海卵造成影響而驅離那我問一下好不好海巡署從今年以來類似向自然安全帶有多少艦最近5年從109到113年總共有40艦平均每年大概8艦平均每年8艦是 今年到現在為止有5艦 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7735.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7745.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
今年五件對 那五件包括鴻泰包括盛興包括我們有漁船也有大陸漁船的我們都有含送地檢數 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7746.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7773.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
這個都含送了是所以那像那個稻紗的部分呢稻紗的話111年還有扣留兩艘之後就沒有了之後112年是零星在澎湖跟馬祖零星一兩艘被我們驅離 行經的換句話說112年到現在就沒有稻紗那跟委員報告因為111年非常多的尤其馬祖中國大陸 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7774.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7802.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
沙石船所以我們立法院 非常感謝立法院也修正了土石管理法跟大陸礁棚及專屬經濟海保所以這個船舶不論是不是犯罪所有人都沒入所以這個有產生效用了有產生效用很好 這個我也有參與到整個土地案我想這樣子我們就是要產生嚇阻力那也希望這次海欄七法也一樣有這樣的效益那我是不是也問一下國安局好不好我們的陳處長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7803.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7813.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
這一段時間就國安局的掌握我們的這些所謂的這樣的一些事件數量要不要那個陳處長也講一下報告委員有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7814.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7838.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
在我們海域做到的這些威脅的一個傳播的部分事實上我們在有關相關預警或者是海運署的一個即時應處基本上我們都是有一個運作的一個機制所以說在整個一發生的這一些的一些礦通常我們基本上我們第一時間就是有保持的一個通報跟應處這是我們目前在國安局有充分掌握這些狀況有 包括有 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7839.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7845.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
那我問一下剛剛提到的 包括副市長提到的這些斷纜的事件平均每年大概七到八件 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7848.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7871.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
剛剛有提到就是我們今年大概是有大概是有五件左右今年五件今年五件那所以他的狀況跟往年是差不多的是差不多但是我們在強度方面事實上海巡在這一部分的應酬都是第一時間就去做馬上的一個查數包括包括有關雷達的回放這個我們都及時掌握那我來問兩位像這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7875.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7901.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
順興39的部分這樣的他的線路這樣子跑這是一個正常的狀況嗎委員 報委員因為這個要從個案事實認定我先講一下剛才委員指導的是1月3號那今年2月25號在台南外海我們當場扣留鴻泰58號他是多個級的那他是現在中華電信所有傳播有20公尺長 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7903.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7921.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
航速第五節在海南電纜左右一公里如果他有開AIS那我們有自動告急系統中華電信公司會自動傳給船上那這艘後船他也有海圖所以他知道海底電纜在哪裡他也有應該可以看到會告急他要趕快離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7923.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7944.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
結果他沒有看電視所以如果我們認定他剛好跟我們海底電纜的路線是很像的時候我們就會依照他AIS的狀況我們會通報他了這個時候他會還中華電信電信組織機關會第一時間直接傳到船上請他趕快離開再不走的話會通知我們那我們會過去會超前部署然後我們雷達也可以看 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7945.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7969.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那過去之後就這個案子就是我們下令他馬上起矛離開他看到我們下令起矛下令之後他就起矛當場就拉斷所以當場就拉斷掉了所以這個已經這已經等於發生了嘛所以未來如果我們在我們的修法更強化的話我們就有更強的一個公權力是 為什麼呢跟委員報告這個這次七法最重要的原因就是第一個嚴刑重罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7971.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
7998.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
除了故意犯以外如果涉及到國家安全跟社會安定的話甚至可以到10年以下有期徒刑罰金是照5000萬就是我們過失也處理是然後另外如果你又涉及到故意的話有10年以下的這個等於是一個重判涉及到國家安全然後船舶不問犯罪人所有比照土石採取直接沒入嗎直接沒入最重要第二點就是我們可以源頭管理那很多船舶東北季風都在我們外海滯留 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8000.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8023.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
他可能是要等整補可能是要等載貨不管怎樣他就要降低成本在我們外海滯留那我們驅離之後我們要法格法 驅而復返那現在這個企劃中交通部 航港局有修正傳播法8961他可以處罰三萬以上一千萬以下划完這行政法只要他不出去他沒有正常使用AIS就可以處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8023.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8042.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
第三個最重要就是可以我們精準司法因為要求他要開AS若不開的話這個我們會處罰還有最重要最重要如果在滯留我們驅離他又互返我們現在跟航空局有共識也公告了20小時內驅離兩次的話以後就禁止他入港 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8042.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8059.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以這些都是很重要的政策啦因為你用AIS我們就可以定位出它的位置在哪邊那你的位置的移動如果是跟我們的電纜是密切相關的我合理懷疑你就是要來破壞我的電纜所以我就可以採取強硬的措施甚至我驅趕你你有任何其他的部分我甚至於未來讓你不能夠進到我的崗裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8060.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8082.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
換句話說可以降低大幅的降低岸船系統就是我們現在所有的作為都是讓他們沒有降低掉他的那個啦因為當他要付出刑罰當他要付出很高的行政罰當他要甚至可能被扣留船隻的時候從過去那個倒採砂石的經驗我們就可以知道海砂的經驗知道當你用一些強硬的措施下去的時候他的利潤遠遠不及於他所可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8083.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8098.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
導致的損失的時候他就不會去做這個行為甚至要可能被扣留有刑法的問題他就更不會犯了所以我覺得這些都是在保護我們國家安全重要的我們希望朝野一起來支持那這個其實也不只是台灣我看到斯洛伐克的國防部長前幾天來也講到 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8099.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8122.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
海底電纜已經成為是一個看不見的戰爭特別是台灣周邊是台灣是海島啦周邊出去都是靠這些電纜的連結跟權勢的連結所以這更重要啦我也希望大家一起來盡快的完成這樣的修法啦一起來守護台灣的國家的安全啦謝謝委員我們全力以赴我們全力支持啦再來我先請教一下經濟部長是不是也請教一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8123.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8130.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
我們現在這個產業的部分我們的海欄的維修跟海欄的這些工有沒有相關的強化我們這個產業的一個空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8132.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8152.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
我們現在幾乎很多的海欄船大概都是其他國家所有的我們本身在這一塊其實並不強的我也希望未來進一步整理來思考讓我們自己的海欄的維修海欄的產業鏈是能夠更加的強化的這個也許跟交通部跟中華電信等等相關的可以做更多的討論好不好 這請部長在省鎮來討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8153.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8173.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
好最後一點點時間我問一下這一次的高雄的就是非洲豬瘟台中非洲豬瘟跑到高雄去但是後來這個大榮的業者他包括說他只有小車才有GPS包括拖了一個半小時才說了大貨車位置包括甚至宣稱內容等等還有包括甚至裡面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8174.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8191.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
顯然在物流這一塊裡面是有問題的啦我也希望未來在這個管理的部分我希望經濟部跟交通部在研議啦對於特別現在越來越多這種物流倉儲的一些管理我希望能夠做更多一些強化不然他覺得我不交代 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8192.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8208.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
你也無可 對我無可奈何我不去交代我到底有什麼東西 去了哪裡顯然你無可奈何那這樣對於未來我們在防疫甚至很多重要的一些狀況的時候我們其實這個部分部長有沒有一些強化的一些措施好 這個部分我們跟交通部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8209.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8237.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
就像委員指導的我們會跟他們加強聯繫因為很多都是透過物流常常都是我們管那個路上跑的是他們管那我們會把它結合起來單產業面上面我希望整體來讓這些納入到更多管特別是現在我們看到家裡大榮甚至各界都懷疑他有港中資在掌握的那當這些我們的物流這些所有的是我們如果往不好的方向去思考的時候那當這些重要的物流都掌握在 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8237.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8257.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
不是我們可掌控的手裡的時候它另外也會形成另外一個國安上的一個盲點跟漏洞啦所以我還希望這一塊要確實用更強的一些去約束它就是一旦有狀況的時候它必須要如實地依照國家的一些要求去包括交出正確的資訊包括做出正確的一些處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8258.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8283.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
這一塊我希望國安局也整體要配合進來跟經濟部跟交通部一起來思考把這個要建立起來不然未來更多類似這樣的事件今天是豬肉 非洲豬瘟未來其他事件的時候如果這些物流業者並不願意配合國家的一些整體的要求跟這個的話那有可能要形成另外一個漏洞好不好是 這個我們正在好 請部長再跟交通部跟國安局這邊再來研議好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8285.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8289.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
謝謝賴瑞榮委員的質詢 謝謝部長我們現在請楊瓊英委員質詢謝謝謝謝主席 楊瓊發言我們邀請部長我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8315.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8342.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
谢谢部长今天本席也提出修正动议这个目的也就是在整个能源的安全事前的防范事后的处罚这个加重希望能够在能源方面可以达到一个安全我希望得到这个行政部门的一个支持重点在于除了我们事后的罚则之外那最重要的现在是以 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8343.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8357.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
就是故意达成伤害者但是在整个过程当中如果行为者他达成伤害那也必须要有所处置你同不同意这样的一个原则是是是现在就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8358.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8381.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
即便他不是故意的也有罚则就是过失的好 非常的感谢终于今天本席提了三个修正动力的目的也就是这个精神所以待会我们如果在主条审查的时候也敬请我们同仁以及行政部门来支持我们真正目的也就是需要能够真正的安全这是非常重要防堵 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8382.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8398.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
那同時在電越法跟天然氣濕越法以及自來水這個三法修法的當中我們就是剛剛所說的為了要加重對海底電纜輸氣與送水管線遭破壞的一個行程所以我們說如果事後追陳 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8399.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8421.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
當然他雖然有二組作用但是他缺乏了一個及時的一個監測機制一旦損傷造成了全民的斷電斷氣斷水這個連鎖危機那麼有鑒於此所以我們呢必須要建立一個什麼呢事前防護的一個體系讓能源輸配網具備有 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8423.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8446.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
日景以及快速的應變能力我們今天主要的修法的目的是不是以這樣子的一個精神為目標而執行之呢是的 我們方向是這樣那我們會跟海巡署事實上是配合搭配因為他們這個海上作業是這個巡查是他們在處理那我們一旦他們也會針對船隻上 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8448.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8463.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
他要開AIS然後定位他然後看他的意圖等等一些情況那我們會把我們所有的管線的相關資料提供給海巡讓他們知道說這個地方事實上是我們很重要的一個區域所以跨部會的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8465.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8483.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
合縱聯合這是非常的重要所以我也謝謝部長剛剛我們在討論當中也就是針對今天所修的這個三個法本席提出三個修正動議更明確的來說明更明確的能夠讓執行者有所依歸也就是強化與 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8486.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8499.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這個執行的這個效能來穩定能源的安全我們的目標就是以這兩個為基準是不是是的 是的那所以我們面對於整個海底設施的安全的威脅我們必須要設置可即使偵測異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8504.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8529.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
来作为预警的功能的防务系统是不是如此是我们对一旦有发生异样的时候我们就资讯会回馈给我们我们马上会跟海巡来通联这个非常的重要所以本期要说明的是说能源的安全我们不是只有事后有罚我们还要事前可防是不是如此是好那我们也希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8531.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8556.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
再一次的說明到時候我們審查法案的時候那目標都一致那也希望得到修正動議得到這三個呢得到行政部門以及國會同仁大家的支持接下來本期要跟你討論的是6月3號立法院通過了2028年五美中火的這個案子那但是呢您經濟部一直說您有困難當時你不是部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8557.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8572.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
因為你現在是部長所以本期要跟你討論這個問題你的理由是說中國的二期燃氣必須要55個月但是事實上中國的一期它的燃氣兩部機組會在於2025跟2026年來完工裝置的容量是2600MW裝置的容量讓它足以太舊4.7部的燃煤機組 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8584.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8608.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
那不僅如此喔 到現在2024年中火減煤630萬公噸2025年一期上限它可以再淘汰432.5萬公噸2026年它可以再增加民營的中央這個燃氣的電廠跟中火燃氣一起的第二個機組它可以再減多少呢 636萬公噸 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8611.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8631.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
636萬公噸所以換句話說在2028年如果依照這樣的數字你們的規劃達成2028年中火無煤他是沒有問題的他是沒有問題的那請教部長因為你們現在一直以中火二期未完工來做藉口那民眾的聲音您聽到嗎請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8633.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8663.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
部長你先答一下吧因為總經理有跟我講因為你新任的部長啊如果真的可以達成我們當然是希望這樣但是中間這個數字是你們告訴我們的啊而且你們還告訴我們啊要找一天蒸氣你就要找一天撿煤啊找一天蒸氣找一天撿煤啊這是我們大家的共識啊對不對但是您剛剛比如說您剛剛提到的資料中加的部分基本上他已經不會做了就是說就解約了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8664.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8671.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
所以說類似這樣的情況你們從頭到尾都跟我們說這個數字到現在潘朵拉的盒子打開你說宗家解約了對 因為它是民間的不是我們台電沒有人不知道它是民間的當時你們都把它的量數都計算在內啊你怎麼會現在才跟我們說這個潘朵拉的盒子掀開是這樣不可看呢難怪我們的民眾這麼痛苦啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8692.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8699.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
中部地區的民眾已經承受夠了他九月份的時候解約了九月份的時候解約那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8702.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8724.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
所以我們就是盡量還是會趕啊什麼叫做盡量就是委員跟我們的想法一樣盡快把這個氣起來以後煤可以降下來這是我們共同的願望但是如果有實質上的困難政府口口聲聲告訴我們不管綠能不管這個天然氣我們都全力的支持你現在告訴我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8726.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8736.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
九月份的事件我都不忍心講出來那我們中部地區該怎麼辦你一直告訴我們說要爭氣就減煤我們全力的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8738.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8753.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那你們現在告訴我你現在說你們有困難那你的困難我告訴你們你至少要告訴我們你們要怎麼樣逐年減煤請告訴我時辰請告訴我時辰 我絕對不同意只有到2034年才無煤這個我們絕對抗議到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8757.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8781.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
跟委員報告整個電力系統的要穩定供電其實要考慮到供電的發電的高度跟我們運轉電廠的時間總經理這個是你們之前要爭氣你們都說過了如果你們沒有這些KPI你怎麼去執行呢你現在告訴我這些論述本席具體要求你告訴我 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8782.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
8784.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
你們現在告訴我們是2031年2034年這個區間你才要5枚那你們這段時間都不減煤嗎那你告訴我沒關係你告訴我你告訴我你現在有困難你要怎麼樣逐年去減煤告訴我時程告訴我數據我們同意逐年減煤然後把數據會後會 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
8805.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
8813.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
你現在就可以告訴我了你已經告訴我們2031年2034年我是不同意的到那個時間才無美你現在有增加這些設備本席剛剛已經告訴過你了本席告訴過你了你的2025 2026年完工運轉你可以增加2600MW你可以拆除了4.7部的燃煤機組 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
8830.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
8836.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
跟委員報告你已經失去餘名你說你的政績上路你就要給我們的煙囪這個這個這個摘除跟委員報告那你現在還要保留運轉你為什麼要這麼欺負我們中部人呢跟委員報告最近這幾天天氣比較涼 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
8849.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
8874.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我们中火本来是10部机组也其实都运转到大概4部或5部的机组在运转而已其实就是在照顾中部的你能不能告诉我在你一起燃气机组2025 2026陆续上线之后我们有所本有所本你们的预估就是如此你上线之后你要告诉我们你的逐步减煤时程 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
8875.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
8897.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
跟委員報告告訴我們怎麼樣減你會不會逐步去減電力的運轉跟調度是需要彈性的當然彈性所以本席問你你會不會逐步逐年去減我們會逐步去做盡量去做但是我們不敢承諾一個數字給你們因為只要承諾一個數字我們就一定要努力必須要做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
8898.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
8918.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
全國的民眾聽到中部地區的民眾聽到政府告訴我們你蒸汽要給我們減煤你現在不敢告訴我時程不敢告訴我數字因為不敢說的原因是有太多的變數包括像再生能源上來的進度怎麼樣這個都影響到我們電力運轉的所以政府一場騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
8919.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
8949.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
沒有騙之前告訴我們你們的能源占比有多少你的綠能有多少你現在告訴我你什麼都沒有穩定供電還是我們第一要務那我們中部地區人的健康怎麼辦呢怎麼辦呢我至少一個卑微的要求我們不同意到2031到2034年才是無煤所以我們卑微的要求你告訴我逐年你的減煤到底是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
8950.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
8969.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這樣子的卑微的說的要求你都沒有幫我告訴我們數字台電一定會盡量去做到盡量做到總經理我對你是非常的尊敬因為你是非常務實但是你今天告訴我這些內容我真的是嚇一跳 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
8970.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
8988.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
原來之前所說的都是一場騙時間到了你這樣我只有卑微的要求你告訴我你逐年沒關係你逐年減煤的數量告訴本席可不可以總經理不是你不可以說數字我絕對不接受台電公司告訴我減煤的時程跟減煤的量數不可以坦白說數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9001.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9019.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
我們請我們經濟部還有我們台電我們找我們瓊益委員把這些我們可以瞭解的可以告知的這些相關的數字跟我們瓊益委員瞭解一下好不好好 謝謝你多點時間可以將你的時程告訴本席你的時程跟你的減煤計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9021.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9034.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
告訴我們我們找時間跟委員報告不是找時間報告我具體要求在經濟委員會要求行政部門台電公司請你將你們的燃氣機組上了2025 2026你可以有2600MW的增加我沒有理由不要求你要減煤 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9044.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9048.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
你告訴我們正氣就要減煤我很卑微的要求行政部門請你把我的時間要求你逐年減煤的時間跟量數 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9058.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9074.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
給本席請委員給我們一點運轉的空間什麼時候告訴本席 沒關係你告訴我什麼時間你的時程跟你的減煤數量告訴本席我們下禮拜去找瓊英委員報告一下好不好不是不是 朱新毅 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9074.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9085.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
我們質詢有要求時間的權利告訴我們內容我不敢你講不出來我沒有辦法要求你現在講但是我們還為選民負責我們替選民來問你什麼時間你告訴我們你們逐年遞減的時間跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9091.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9099.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們可以提出我們怎麼樣盡量做到的對你什麼時候可以告訴本席你給我一個時間就好你下個禮拜去找不是你告訴我你們去討論嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9107.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9134.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
一个月时间我们把我们尽量怎么做到的方式或怎样再跟委员就教就是我们会写出书面报告来请你们好好告诉我们民众需要指导中部地区民众真的辛苦了而且我们有条件也有权利要求我们付出的够了我们希望我们也全力支持政府的政策增气减霉要讲到做到是是是 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9135.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9138.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝趙偉的質詢謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝總經理 謝謝我們現在休息十分鐘 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9754.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9756.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
我們繼續開會我們現在請伍麗華委員質詢謝謝主席有請部長我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9777.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9805.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
部長好今天有審查電業法天然氣事業法自來水法那這三個法其實我也都有提案不過我想說先來關心一下我們地方族人跟水跟電有關的陳情那第一個部分就是想要請教一下因為我在上一屆剛上任立委的時候在花蓮的修林鄉有一個陳情案 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9805.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9821.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
那個地方就是挨家挨戶他們都是挨著那個電塔所以在台電這邊也有一個花蓮北埔線路的一個工程有一個方案叫做嘉明村替代方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9822.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9840.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那當時呢其實我是拿到一個回覆他說考量地方用電需求線路最持續於110年底前完成知己迫信期待能夠獲得鄉親同意先以原路徑完成送電後再儘速拆除嘉明村境內的 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9842 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9864.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
計設就線路並持續進行以往山區之最終遷改路徑相關作業那我要說的是其實嘉明村的人大多都認同就是要把這個高壓電塔遷往山區這個是他們認同的但是經過這麼多年他們也常常問因為看不到進度所以想了解一下相關進度是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9870.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9890.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
跟委員報告這個案子主要是也談了一段時間了那最主要就是因為路線的可能還有一些爭議雖然往山區這邊來移動但是需要一些溝通因為我們重點都是在所以我就是想要了解到底有沒有努力跟族人溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9891.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9902.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
一直都持續在開會經常開會嗎對 開會主要是另外一邊要移過去那邊那邊也有一些爭議在我是這樣想109年 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9904.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9928.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我不知道之前有沒有啦但是我是109年上任今天你看已經6年了那主任也常常在問所以這個部分今天就是提醒要最起碼要讓我們知道相關進度為何困難在哪裡那到底做過多少場次的溝通座談這個部分可不可以給辦公室一些資料好詳細情形再給OK好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9931.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9951.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
第二個部分因為我們原住民很多的部落都是經過兩到三次的一個集體性的遷村我們也很慢設置水管很多的部落它設置水管至今有的已經50年有的40年不等 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9952.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9963.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
但是我們也很希望說可以趕快配合我們水公司這邊的一個管線汰換工程所以我們也積極的就民眾陳情來爭取那像去年113年以屏東來講我看到的就是我們泰安鄉的萬安還有馬家鄉的嘉義村山地門鄉的青山村還有馬家鄉的山河村我看到有爭取到 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9981.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10009.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
但是我比較不理解的就是今年6月才看到台水公司的一個新聞稿說要積極推動降漏的工作那降不降漏是一回事但是我看到我們原鄉很多的那個鐵管生鏽而且是鐵管還能夠破碎生鏽到破碎那個水出來都是紅紅的其實都是急需排優先管線汰換 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10010.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10019.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
我不曉得是你們的標準是怎麼樣至少我看到今年就比去年少很多所以想了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10020.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10042.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
像今年我看到的就是只有来一乡的义林村还有三地门乡的三地村感谢委员的提示我想水公司针对管线汰换依照我们有些汰换的一个标准包括破管的频率包括刚刚委员提到的对水质的影响我想这个部分我们都有在积极的依照我们的相关的标准的作业来处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10043.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10069.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那有關剛剛這個委員關心的這個原鄉的部分呢我們大概113年大概有辦理了六件的一個管制工程大概有1.13億的貸款的經費那這個114年的部分我們目前對啊 你們才發新聞稿說要積極大概有五件 目前大概有五件那分布在那個這個來義 山地門 春日 滿洲那我講這個部分我們一些細目的一些部分我們會跟委員做一個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10070.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10084.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我只是要表達其實很多部落的管縣真的都已經歷經50年所以我希望說這個部分要考量到原鄉的一個需求那最後還是再請教一下關於那個海嵐法的問題因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10087.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10106.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我們其實就是因為這幾年來特別是像今年就已經是海嵐斷裂已經9次所以我們就很關心修法的問題但是這個除了抓不勝抓 不好抓還有不好定罪的問題以今年8月29號這個是首度 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10108.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10124.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
有針對破壞海欄的船隻及船員啟動刑事調查而且有二審判刑三年這個是中國籍的船長但是這也引發我們去思考就是領海之外的犯罪要如何防範 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10125.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10154.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
而且定罪所以在這邊原本刑法第3條它是指說可以適用的是領域內的犯罪或船艦或航空器所以像這種在領海之外的也許可以用刑法第4條它的結果如果是結果有在中國民國領域內的話也算領域內的犯罪但是我們就是擔心像這種沒有造成顯著災情或者是未遂那能不能夠適用 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10155.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10171.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
那又或者是說像我們今天的這個自來水法為什麼要修法就是看到這個判罪他就是適用第97條之一因為他是二審還判刑三年所以他是用了第一項他只是認定他就是毀壞 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10172.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10197.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
所以我的意思是說我們主張的就是為了避免這樣子的一個情況發生所以除了我們希望刪除這種像第二項的這種主觀意圖的條款那也希望可以去新增但書就是在中華民國領域外犯本條之罪者亦適用之不曉得部長您的意見如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10198.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10220.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
現在我們就是連過失事上也有刑罰了已經把它加進來了不會說你是說我不知道我不是故意的只要有造成破壞過失也要刑罰那主觀翻譯那個更是加重現在部分就是修法的方向就是往這個方向我們就是往這個方向讓他可以去適用這個刑法第七條 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10222.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10248.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
谢谢武林法委员谢谢所以其实我们只要咨询让他们知道说这个地下它是有这些管线的那你当然你还过去就是故意这个东西就没有什么样的所谓的有模糊空间所以我们修这个法就是一定要让它有研法然后去做一个管制那我们现在请黄国昌委员咨询 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10258.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10285.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
來 謝主席 麻煩有請經濟部部長台水的董事長我們請部長還有董事 總經理台水總經理黃耳豪兩位好 時間的關係喔是直接進行是高雄大樹區裡面51公頃違法的光電濫墾濫伐遭到起訴經濟部是說火速撤照希望業者不要僥倖這不是僥倖不小心的問題啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10287.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10287.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
搞了這種爛事 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10289.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10315.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
在高雄大樹區51公頃山坡地違反山坡地保育條例爛啃去搞光電板這不是不要僥倖的問題這準備去坐牢了沒什麼好說的我關心的事情是說上一次我有問過經濟部說你們廢止了部分的施工許可第一期水土保持計畫經濟部跟我說合法合規使用沒有終止租約的問題現在立場還是這樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10319.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10338.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
跟委員報告我想這個一期的部分目前都是沒有問題那第二個二期的部分二期的部分也要終止租約嗎跟委員報告二期的部分目前來講我們市府這邊都已經核准那個水路保持一個完工那目前來講我們每天都在監測所以這對問題回來就沒有要終止租約嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10340.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10368.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我們目前來講因為屬於這個目前來講廠商他光電已經停止使用但是他我們請他提對啊他光電停止使用啊但是他破壞山坡地違反法令不是事實明確嗎跟委員報告目前經過市府這個相關單位的一個評估目前來講都符合相關的法令的規定那我們會依照你的意思是說啦過去違反法令的不追究啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10369.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10397.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
市府要他趕上 趕上完了以後就讓他繼續租是不是這樣目前來講的話我們就請廠商提其他的應用的計畫那我們依照原來的契約大概118年才會合法的一個終止來 我們來看齁我上次問這個土地的使用有沒有違反法律結果上次經濟部的次長賴建信跟我說啊說這個是要台水去處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10398.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10422.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
我上次提醒賴建信回去跟台水講 回去的租約啊看清楚回去租約看清楚 租約是怎麼約定的現在橋頭遞減違反山坡地保育條例違反水土保持法仔細看喔擅自在不可開發的地方使用河山光電案第一期工程案 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10425.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10447.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
鋪設太陽能光電板以此方式擅自懇職開發公有的山坡地這個是第一期第二期非法懇職違規開發的面積高達25897平方公尺現在我看不懂了檢察官在起訴的犯罪事實裡面指證歷例 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10449.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10472.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
這已經不是違約的問題 這是違法的問題再看一下我們台水的土地租賃契約書全租人使用土地違反法定可以隨時終止租約 我看不懂啦現在是這個業者後台很硬嗎你為什麼不按照租約終止契約把地收回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10474.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10500.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
因為目前來講到現在 他已經改善完成了既往不就 請你看一下租約好不好我們請你看一下租約好不好 第11條 我用紅筆框起來的陳朱仁使用土地違反法令請問這個陳朱仁使用土地有沒有違反法令跟委員報告 我要講我們是會依照7月的規定來跟我7月就攤給你看啊 是但我今天為什麼質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10502.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10517.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
你們嘴巴說會按照契約的規定你實際上根本沒有按照契約的規定啊目前廠商有依照原來的那個所以你還是要照回去嘛我在問你陳柱仁使用土地有沒有違反法令 有還是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10519.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10546.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
有還是沒有 目前來講是有違反法律但是已經做修正了 已經做修正 對嘛所以我現在才要問嘛那廠商的後台到底有多硬啊使用土地違反法律都已經被起訴了但是我們台準說啊沒有關係我不會終止租約我們請廠商提其他合法的一個使用的計畫你再看一下這個契約書啦 我真的不知道你們為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10548.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10566.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
針對保護國家應該公有的資產保護山坡地會採取這樣子的態度今天濫墾搞光電板違反山坡地保育條例違反水土保持法都已經被起訴了然後我們的台水說 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10569.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10584.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
陳朱仁使用土地違反法令有沒有違反 有但是我不終止租約 因為他已經改善了這個是台水的態度啊 來直接請教一下部長部長 贊不贊成台水這樣的態度我直接跟你講啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10585.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10612.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
台水公司為什麼會這樣軟趴趴我不是很瞭解我真的不是很瞭解背後是有什麼隱情有什麼人當靠山搞成這個樣子高雄地區的鄉親如此的憤怒但是我們台水說沒有關係他已經改善了請問經濟部部長經濟部的立場跟台水一樣嗎報告委員 店家廠商我 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10612.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10637.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
完全不認識是我也不知道沒有關係通常來講我們跟他我也沒有說你認識啦不要緊張啦通常我們跟他契約關係解約是最後的手段是那解約之前假如有一些可以變更的話就讓他去變更然後而且現在是起訴階段還沒有定驗所以你要等到定驗就對了至少一審的時候經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10638.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10667.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
現在的標準是一樣嗎是只有對這個廠商一樣還是對所有的廠商都是這個樣子我再講一次啦看一下契約書陳朱仁使用土地違反法令他不是寫喔陳朱仁使用土地違反法令經判決確定我現在就搞不懂為什麼為什麼面對這樣違法的廠商台水軟趴趴就算了連經濟部都軟趴趴喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10668.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10684.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
不是 要判決比較確定以後才對嘛 所以我請你看契約書嘛部長你回去想一件事情啊上面契約條款的約定是陳朱仁使用土地違反法令還是陳朱仁使用土地違反法令經法院判刑確定者 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10687.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10702.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
這是基本的契約書解讀啦我不相信經濟部的也好 台水的法務也好會給出這麼荒謬的法律見解 如果是按照這樣子搞的話如果是按照這樣子搞的話 那完蛋了事情真的大條了 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10704.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10731.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
主席站起來了我只問最後一個問題我只問最後一個問題所以經濟部現在跟台水的立場一樣這件事情要等到判刑確定了以後才要處理 是還是不是給我這個答案就好了你們權力在你們手上嘛立法機關沒有辦法逼你去終止這個違背法律使用土地把山坡地搞成這個樣子的業者的租約因為權力在你們手上 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10732.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10755.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
我沒有權力逼你沒有權力幫你去終止租約啊你可以選擇我就是不終止那要不然要怎麼樣那就看立法機關能夠怎麼樣現在我只問態度跟立場的問題台水總經理的立場非常清楚了我已經聽到了現在我最後只請教部長經濟部的立場跟台水是不是一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10757.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10772.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
這個可能法條上的檢視我要再檢視一下好 你再檢視需要多久這沒有很複雜啦這可能還會牽涉到萬一他判決下來沒有違法沒有關係啦你回去問你們的法務啦我再說一次啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10773.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10800.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
如果是按照這樣子 如果是按照你們這樣解釋我只跟你講一句話 事情大調了第二個 在其他的案子當中你們都是適用這樣子的標準嗎第三個 這件事情法律問題的解釋沒有你想像的那麼複雜我現在只問部長一件事情你說你要回去再檢視 你檢視需要多久一個禮拜之內用書面回覆我經濟部的立場可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10801.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10802.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
兩個禮拜可以嗎兩個禮拜好我給你兩個禮拜謝謝我們現在請來是保委員資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10826.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10834.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請經濟部的工部長台電的長官有請部長還有我們台電總經理 謝謝兩位長官好我們都很清楚台灣的用電其實非常吃緊你看到國外都是這樣來看美僑商會 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10855.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10858.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
美僑商會你可以看 美國商會 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10861.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10885.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
在6月份發布的2025台灣白皮書台灣人員議題已經取代法規的改革成為會員企業這個首要的關切商會表示核電退場藍莓發電下降天然氣價格又受全球這個市場的波動影響加上綠能 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10886.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10914.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
專案延宕主管機關重點讓台灣高耗能的產業面臨投資風險這是美國商會今年6月所提出來的就大家都知道 普遍都知道只有你們經濟部長官台電長官在講不缺電了 不缺電了可是大家都知道台灣的用電其實是吃緊的吃緊的 我就請教這個看誰要回答部長你要不要回答還是台電這邊回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10915.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10932.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
綠能目前佔我們的發電的比重多少綠能綠能綠能綠能到去年為止到今年的話1到8月大概佔12點11點9啦這裡面資料寫11點9啦2016到多少11點9是去年的去年那今年到12是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10940.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10968.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
到目前到8月我們同意到8月大概12點多那可能到年底我們還會再觀察陸續大概有一些風力發電跟這個太陽光電會提上來為了虛幻的揮霍家園都很清楚嘛台灣的環境已經被破壞的殆盡了水庫上面蓋太陽能板你要不要告訴我哪一個水庫沒有蓋現在現在我們只有6座水庫蓋那其他都沒有蓋總共幾個水庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10970.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10991.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我們總共幾個水庫 報告委員有95座水庫 95座水庫6座哪6座有蓋供電板 報告委員我們現在手上資料是有烏山頭水庫 烏山頭水庫阿公店水庫 阿公店水庫 還有三個比較小的 一個是鹽水坪內浦坪 內浦坪 還有一個金門的金湖 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10993.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11017.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
對 你們的規劃未來還會不會在水庫上面再蓋關鍵板未來還要不要目前沒有申請案件誰申請對 剛剛特別再報告一下剛剛5座再加一個鳳山水庫所以總共是6座總共6座是發電量多少發電量總共現在是大概29MW那佔比例呢 佔我們總發電量多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11018.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11024.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
非常非常小非常小啊我就要這個答案啦非常小的發電量部長啊這值得嗎把台灣的整個生態全部破壞掉水庫破壞 農地破壞 漁運破壞為了你們的這個虛無縹緲的一個非核家園把整個生態環境都這樣破壞你覺得值得嗎再生能源的發展跟非不非核好像沒有關係當然有 怎麼沒有關係就是因為你們要拼命蓋 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11048.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11076.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
為了廢核所以要光電要封建啊光電太陽能就上去了啦將來即便能源如果重啟或者是有新的核能太陽能光電還是會持續做啊但是你不要破壞水庫嘛你不要破壞餘溫嘛餘溫的魚都死掉怎麼會被破壞對不對 什麼餘電共生結果是魚死了 電有了變這樣子啊清楚的看得到啊 你說沒有來 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11077.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11104.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
你們原來講的河山要嚴厲是不是河山要嚴厲有沒有因為這個命題就是現在到了就是可能會自我檢查階段因為法已經公布了法都公布了可以嚴厲啊可能我們台電會開始做自我檢查來台電講一下時間表好不好河山廠怎麼營運的時間表跟委員報告我們現在的程序是先做現況評估 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11106.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11125.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
那我們現況評估在10月13號已經把這個的評估的報告送到我時間到了快點講好那接著呢這個做完之後如果說確實說可以往下走的話我們河山會先做再運轉計畫等等的這些程序最後河山廠如果真的可以用到什麼要多久時間啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11128.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11141.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
因為有些變數不是台電能掌握的一切如果順利三年夠不夠順利一切都順利三年夠不夠大概3.5年吧3.5年好最後一個小問題來我們看有瑜伽廠因為現在台電 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11146.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11166.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
台電這個都會要廠商如果來投資的話會要他提出一個用電計畫廠商用電計畫然後台電就跟他講供電的時程我所了解的現在有一家廠商就要申請結果你們看說最快兩年以後才能夠正常供電人家就離開了 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11167.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11184.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
這個東西就代表你們供電吃緊了這個阿曼妮跟Champion講的是對的啊美國商會跟委員報告其實他這個我不知道是哪個案例啦不知道是哪個案例因為我們每年每天的你們每天在reject人家就是因為你們電不夠你要跑掉啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11185.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11207.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
因為有一些可能會牽涉到輸電線要建設需要一點時間你們現在我查了你們現在台電就會有供電時程最快兩年後所以目前北部非常吃緊我們這話結束北部非常吃緊所以幾乎北部的要在北部投資的通通被你們打槍這才是目前最嚴重的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11214.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11225.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝大使館委員質詢 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝相關單位 謝謝我們現在請鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌 鍾嘉斌委員不在我們請葉委員之 委員 謝謝我們請海巡署副署長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11240.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11268.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
委員好副署長是我想因為我們今天其實也有討論到就是要修那個有關於是不是要再提高就是比如扣留船隻或者是相關的一些法令那我們先來看一些數據好不好這個數據是像我們很多像電纜還有其他的管線被迫害狀況其實除了我們透過修法的方式來 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11269.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11291.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
改善之外 還有什麼其他方式可以改善目前我們是預防跟執法並重比方說中華電信它是目的世界主管機關 它有告解系統如果有商貨輪在我們海南區左右海面一公里滯留或是慢速的話 它會自動告解不好意思 那個主期時間可不可以暫停一下電腦設備有問題我們要把 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11296.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11304.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我們時間先暫停 設備可以 這個是我們去2023年到2025年的一些我們電纜被破壞的或者是斷裂的狀況2023年2月它是有斷裂然後2025年1月它是老化 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11319.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11330.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
還有201月還有被國際的海瀾疑似被貨輪拖斷然後另外還有地震的關係像這些其實有的是老化或各方面的問題其實這些問題要怎麼解決 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11332.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11353.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
現在是這樣如果是說有外力介入斷裂的話那我們都視同國安案件接到中華電信通報之後我們會回放我們雷達航機如果在海上允許跟可以辨識的話我們第一時間會請示檢察官原則上我們優先代案回港口然後移送偵辦好 那 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11354.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11373.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
如果說現在已經有這個方法的話那現在修法的原因到底是什麼是有什麼問題是沒辦法解決的這個修法是這樣我們這次修法三大目標第一個嚴刑重罰對我知道因為包括過世犯所以我的問題是這樣子就是說如果我們透過修法那之前發生這些問題都不會再發生嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11374.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11397.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
可以發揮有效的嚇阻作用嚇阻跟國營報告我們以前馬祖的抽砂船非常嚴重111年我們就修正土石採取法還有專屬經濟還有法我們提高行則另外所有的船舶不論是不是所有人所有都可以沒收為什麼因為以前的話船長說這個船不是他的是老闆的所以不能沒入沒收 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11398.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11417.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那現在這個我們嚴刑重罰而且我先講我們這一次修法不用講到之前這一次修法有什麼是修法之後以前不能做的現在可以做的我說針對之前已經曾經發生過的罪案第一個五大管線的話所有的過失犯律定過失犯都要處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11418.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11435.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
對 所以他會更小心嗎 是這個意思嗎這樣的話 過世壞的話 不管是怎樣我們看你們那個海委會的主委他講了一句話 我也不是很懂他講說這次修法以後如果假設有一些船隻進到我們的領海 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11436.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11453.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
然後結果如果他沒有去開那個識別系統我們發現異常就可以驅離對不對這個是你們主委講的嗎是這是我要報告的然後那我想問一下啦在現在的法律的規範底下如果有其他國家或不明傳之進入到我們領海的話我們是不能驅離嗎目前沒有發生規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11454.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11482.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
目前沒有法則規定無害通過目前我們臨海及臨界區法有規範不得違反無害通過但是沒有任何法則所以外海很多滯留的船舶我們驅離完之後驅離復返目前沒有法則現在海南七法的船舶法第89條第一項有規定如果不開AIS的話我們會處罰行政法是所以之前你就是讓他 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11484.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11501.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
以前你們就是政府一直講說國安問題這麼嚴重這麼多年了所以到所以之前都是讓他這樣子通過然後沒有覺得異常也不能驅離喔以前我們的國安漏洞是這麼大我們驅離可以驅離我們海軍組到現場他驅離到我們領海外都會但是都會趨而復返 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11503.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11528.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
沒有罰則沒有罰則所以以前我們國安的漏洞是大到這種地步變成海巡署費非常辛苦所以我們抗中保台這麼多年你到現在才要補這個洞我們現在從法律面機制面包括跨部會我們全面修補漏洞謝謝謝謝葉元茲委員的質詢謝謝副署長我們現在請林建啟林建啟委員不在然後請徐欣盈委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11538.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11540.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
谢谢主席本席有请经济部工部长 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11550.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11575.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
學院好部長好您擔任部長以來呢本席好像還沒有跟您有過這個諮詢上的討論比較少上次業務報告總諮詢上次業務報告也有好那今天感謝這個主席這個安排了有關電業法天然氣事業法還有自來水部分條文的這個法案的審查本席今天要特別針對自來水的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11576.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11605.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
自來水的部分我想請教部長您知道現在全台灣2300多萬人口還有多少人口沒有自來水可以喝您知道嗎好像100多萬是不是對沒錯上百萬百萬人沒有自來水今年是西元2025年了我們竟然還有100萬人沒有自來水喝部長這一塊本席要給您 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11606.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11627.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
要在这里特别的强烈的来建议我们因为看了一下我们看了一下过去的统计数字我们过去23年今年2025从2000年以来民进党执政到目前为止已经满16年然后历经三个总统 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11628.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11631.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
那國民黨執政呢2000年以來這個一位叫馬英九總統所以從過去25年以來投入了227億的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11641.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11656.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
自來水這個普及化的錢那我們看到這一百萬人如果需要等於讓他們都有自來水因為自來水是最基本的民生需求我們一個每天繳稅的國民 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11658.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11673.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
我希望我住在台灣我可以有自來水這是最卑微的吧也是最基本的那我們看到這個統計數字如果要能夠讓這一百萬人都有其實它經費也不算高2450億部長您可以我在這裡建議您可以向賴總統向這個卓院長來反映 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11688.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11712.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
哪一個總統或哪一位部長任內我們來編列讓整個台灣全民有自來水盒不能永遠就是有那麼多的人他沒有自來水盒而且他用的水他們家用的水白襯衫白T恤全部洗成黃的 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11714.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11733.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
而且這個民眾沒有自來水喝它後續產生的健康的問題其實也會是國家的負擔所以這個2450億本席今天要來請命當然這個也絕對會是讓工部長您以及甚至不管卓院長或是賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11735.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11756.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
这个永垂青史因为台湾竟然历经了这么多的这个总统行政院长经济部长没有人重视民生最基本的自来水这个是住在台北都会区的大关门没有办法体会的 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11757.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11775.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那本席這個從上一屆當立委那時候國民黨執政本席也強烈的呼籲那時候的行政院長他是有史以來也編列這個特別多的但是還是不夠還是不夠所以我們希望這2450億部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11778.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11794.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
你看是分兩年還是一年還是三年我們就讓它來完成這個絕對在台灣是一個非常非常大而且非常非常好的一件事部長可以這樣來思考嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11796.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11823.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
這樣子來研議嗎我們也是盡量來做現在大概都是一席一席來這個最基本最卑微的自來水這個真的很不公平是 因為的確是有一些是在非常偏遠或是山區裡面它的費用比較高好 您是這樣講但是我本席要跟你講很多它就在一般的市區鄉鎮市還是沒有沒有在偏遠山區你們要不要盤點一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11824.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11851.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
如果是市區的話我們會盡快的來處理沒有問題啊所以我們看到整體看2450億嘛那你是不是可以分兩年來編列這個特別的我們之前講的我們自來水普及化的你特別的基金嘛因為這是這個是最基本其實這些人的人權都沒有被重視啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11852.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11867.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
是我們是一期一期大概100多億100多億這樣編也是有所以現在您可以了解如果到現在這一百萬人你要能夠都有自來水要多久你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11870.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11885.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
要幾年你知道嗎照你這樣的編法要248年不知道已經投胎幾次了是但是那個就是偏遠山區雖然沒有拉管道自然水但是還是有減益自然水所以你不要跟我講你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11886.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11895.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
偏遠山區我們這2450億或是100萬人偏遠山區大概10萬以內你另外90萬你不可以編列嗎2450億你分3年 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11900.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11923.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
你也編列完了你分兩年你也編列完了本席真的是在這裡為這個不是只有我新竹縣全國其實中南部也非常多東部也非常多如果是人群比較聚集地的話我們會優先趕快來處理所以本席建議部長你可以大刀闊斧你就編個一千億嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11925.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11943.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
1000億特別的基金你來進行特別就是針對自來水這個最基本的人權委員的這個指教我們可以跟行政院來反映一下這個絕對會獲得很大的好評因為這個金額的確是比較大你就幫這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11945.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11966.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
你如果說真的很偏遠人很少的當然但現在我們面臨的很多不只是這樣我相信我們召委召委台南整個台南市應該也還是有我們來盤點一下也還是有不一定在山區我們來盤點一下就是剛剛委員提到的非偏遠地方但是很需要的部分我們先把它盤點出來而且不要每年這樣一點點一點點 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11968.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11977.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
照這樣下去要200多年我們希望這三年 這兩年我們就盡快來完成你只要預算編了就這樣來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11979.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12007.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
加速进行好吗不过那个时候也要考量到执行的能量对但是我们还是会尽量尽力对尽全力这个会是一项非常非常大的得证谢谢谢谢谢谢徐新委员的咨询谢谢谢谢部长谢谢我们现在请王洪威委员咨询王洪威谢谢好谢谢主席我请部长 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12016.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12041.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
王文宇好部長早安川普的亞洲行其實一舉一動每一個地點事實上跟台灣都有一些關係在上個星期也在這邊請教部長那當然現在他跟日本的高市新的首相已經談完了然後接下來就是看他包含跟這個習近平跟李在民的談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12042.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12059.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
那马来西亚的部分我也有注意到注意到这个我们的国贸署以今天就是这两天新闻稿特别讲到10月26号那么美国和马来西亚已经签署了这个相关的贸易协定 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12060.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12079.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
那我觉得从亚洲来看现在看起来是稀土战的开打稀土战开打马来西亚跟美国的贸易协定里面有特别承诺马来西亚的稀土的出口不受到这个就是应该是说不要受到中国在管制的一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12080.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12101.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
影響而且很特別的跟日本也特別的去簽署了這個相關的協定談判的重點也要簽署相關的稀土的文件我本來覺得很奇怪日本有稀土嗎結果後來發現日本現在可能有開採稀土計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12102.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12115.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
所以也就是川普的亞洲型事實上有一個非常重要的除了中國之外他對馬來西亞也談稀土他對日本也談稀土好那現在問題來了台灣有稀土嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12117.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12140.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
台灣沒有生產源的稀土是沒有的都沒有而且我們還靠進口對不對我們不但靠進口而且我們進口很大的比例來自於中國對不對因為沒有辦法的事情雖然我們都說我們不要什麼中國字等等之類但是中國就是95%以上的稀土還有那個磁鐵超級磁鐵通通都是來自中國 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12141.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12167.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
所以台灣不像馬來西亞也沒有像日本可以去簽署相關的供應鏈的合作所以部長我覺得我們現在大家都在全世界的稀土戰裡面台灣沒有相關的稀土而且我們還被中國管制出口我們有八個機構大概主要是以國防為主還被管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12168.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12197.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
那甚至在這次的川普的亞洲行他接到習近平有關的稀土我們甚至還擔心美國會不會承諾來自中國的稀土不能夠賣給台灣不能夠賣給台灣這裡面包含這些武器所以部長我想請問一下有關於全球稀土戰開打請問一下我們政府有沒有相關的因應的 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12198.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12222.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
策略包委員我們第一時間大概有做了一些分析可能對我們的影響是怎麼樣那當然影響大不大如果分成兩個部分一個部分就是對於馬達磁鐵有用到的部分電動車這個當然會有影響對電動車產業有影響對我們半導體的製程基本上這一波是沒有的因為它管制項目裡面其中用到我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12223.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12250.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
半导体制程里面比较是四跟蓝那这个这一次是没有管制的所以半导体目前没有影响对的 影响比较小但是我们还是要做一些因应的做法那因应的做法大概有分成两个部分一个部分就像您刚才提的国际供应链我们虽然是供应链的需求方但也是供应链的一环那现在不管是日本也好或是美国也好或是其他国家 欧盟他们都有在讨论将来的因应做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12251.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12274.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
那必要的時候我們可以跟他們有一致性的做法這是一個但是我們自己可能也要做一些準備啦那準備我們自己的準備我們先擔心的是擔心因為我們是需求方那比如美國美國可能先談自己就是中國大陸對他的稀土延後嘛那他如果變成說即便美國的也不能夠賣給台灣或者未來他跟歐洲談也不能賣給台灣那怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12279.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12293.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
所以我們自己也要自己準備了我剛才講配合國際的供應鏈我們自己準備我們現在希望透過循環性的回收這是一個那另外我們也會跟產稀土的國家已經開始有一些談談了就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12296.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12323.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
把它的稀土我們精煉的方法可能也會開發出來那現在工研院已經開發出一些相關技術出來但是雖然還在攻經期但是基本上這個是可行的方法那盡快的把這個方法轉移給有興趣的廠商那量把它做出來大概希望在2030年可以達到滿足我們三分之一的需求量至少我們自己可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12324.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12350.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
就是有三分之一可以自己自主三分之一自己自主但是三分之二恐怕还是要靠进口对不对因为我们现在几乎全部靠进口对不对其实我觉得真的要把全球的稀土站现在变成整个全球的这样的一个供应链里面我们的位置因为这个说实在半导体我们强势但是稀土我们是弱势中的弱势好不好谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12352.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12377.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
謝謝謝謝王鴻薇委員的質詢謝謝謝謝部長謝謝我們中午不休息延長開會時間到議程處理完畢我們現在請王美惠王美惠王美惠不在何欣淳何欣淳何欣淳委員不在林楚瑛林楚瑛林楚瑛委員不在馬文君馬文君馬文君委員不在蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在洪孟凱洪孟凱洪孟凱委員不在我們現在請鄭振淺委員質詢謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12388.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12391.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
謝謝主席我想請一下經濟部工部長好 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12397.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12420.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
部長好因為今天主席安排了海嵐七法的一個審查那其中包括電液法天然氣施液法還有自來水法這三個法在我們經濟委員會裡頭審那我想說這是修法的重點主要要保護海底電力電纜那麼新增了一個刑罰的一個規範那我想說這草案當中的時候對於整個損害海嵐的管線者 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12423.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12448.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
沒有進行民事的一個追究那我們從那個聯合國的海洋法公約當中第11條當中很清楚的提到這個部分就是說只要是有這樣子對於整個海底電纜電力的一個這樣子的一個損害或通訊的損害的時候應該給予處罰那針對這個部分您認為我們這次修法當中沒有包含民事的部分進來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12449.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12463.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
這個部分的時候您認為適合嗎然後如果說直接追究刑事的時候那這樣子的損害變成還是由我們全民來買單嘛對不對這個部分可不可以請部長做一個簡單的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12464.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12481.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
報告委員因為這個三個法是現在是刑法把它加進去那民事求償本來在民法裡面就可以我們就可以求償了對不需要再立法但是如果我們受到我們的業主受到阻礙我們本來就會要求民事的求償 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12481.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12500.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
OK 所以就說我們這次把刑罰拔加進來民事求償的部分就按照民法的部分去處理嗎好 那這次修法有另外一個重點它是明訂整個犯罪用的工具傳播或其他的機械設備的沒收或者處置的一個規定 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12501.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12525.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那過去曾經有發生過那個稻採砂石的一個船舶被沒收之後拍賣那沒收之後拍賣的時候那疑似的那個原船東就找人頭過來買那買了之後對這樣的部分再把它給購回去針對這樣的部分的時候那部長對整個拍賣或者是我們變賣的條件是不是對於這個部分要有一個更嚴格的一個限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12527.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12556.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
這個可能後續的現行法例應該會有相關的規範來辦理因為之前有很多的新聞就直接提到這個適合訂在電業法裡面那這個部分說實話因為拍賣的時候他找其他的人頭變相來買我們要規範其實不是那麼容易因為他找了一個張三理事也許並不是很直接的一個關係所以你要去追究這部分確實不是那麼容易 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12556.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12571.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
可是我們希望針對這部分因為之前有很多媒體都報導過類似這樣的情況那我們希望能夠把它加以一個限制尤其是很多時候這樣的一個人頭去拍賣回來的部分還涉及跨國的一些行為 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12572.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12594.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
那另外一個部分就是今年7月份的時候美國國會提出一個台灣海底電纜韌性倡議法案那針對這個部分美國他這邊有提到說美國跟台灣的海巡跟區域盟友進行聯合監控跟巡邏還有建立演訓情報共享還有共同偵查徵詢的這制度當中的時候他鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12594.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12619.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
台灣要加深電纜的埋設還有使用更具韌性的一個材料那本席對於所謂的加深電纜埋設跟使用更具韌性的材料這個部分的時候我們台灣這邊準備要怎麼樣去因應對於這些離岸風電的業者的時候我們做了哪些的一個溝通然後能夠來維護我們整個國家的一個供電的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12621.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12644.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
包委員 這個應該是指通訊電纜因為通訊電纜它通常是跨國性的會影響到全世界的這個網路跟它的通訊所以需要跨國來合作除了電訊之外的時候我想電力其實也是海嵐當中很重要的一個部分對 那目前來講我們電纜的部分主要是澎湖跟台灣之間 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12646.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12660.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
所以我們自己可以目前來講自己可以處理還沒有到跨國性的部分除非將來我們那個電力的電纜是從國外拉進來那時候就需要跨國性的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12661.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12685.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
好那針對這個部分的時候我想說既然有特別提到了說要加深電纜的一個埋設等等相關那個部分的時候那我們當然希望說能夠確保台灣就是整個海纜相對安全的部分那接下來我想問一個部分因為監察院在10月15號有做一個公佈他提出了一個針對一個無預警停電的一個狀態就是雖然 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12690.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12704.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
次數下降可是停的時間是微幅的一個上升那針對這個部分因為它是用配電系統的層級的無預警停電的部分那針對台電自己評估的狀態的時候加戶停電的時間是 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12708.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12726.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
監察院提出這個部分的大概三倍以上那針對這個部分我們花那麼多錢在強化就是韌性的一個部分可是平均停電的時間其實是增加的那針對這個部分的時候那個部長或者是王總經理這邊的時候有沒有什麼要特別說明的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12728.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12748.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
因为整个的电力系统的分布其实是分布的很广全台湾24个区处这个地方的平均停电时间不减反增主要就是说一些比较大型的事故发生所以它的整体的时间会稍微有点拉长这个只是大数据的统计上有这样子的一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12758.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12774.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
我們原本要規劃要蓋23所變電所對不對那現在有14所被延宕下來那這表示說我們在做地方的溝通當中顯然是有待加強啦所以針對這個部分的時候王總經理要怎麼去突破這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12774.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12800.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
所以刚才委员提到的就是为什么我停电时间拉长就是我本来是要多盖一些变电所把溃线分散让每一条溃线变少的用户数的服务那这个地方没有办法改善所以它就是一个事故点就会有更多的用户停电所以数字会拉长至于说遇到卡关你也知道现在是一个民主沟通的时代所以我们会尽量多做沟通 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12800.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12825.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
所以台電要更加強嘛 好不好 是加強溝通然後另外一個部分 本席這邊也看到一個數字其實很特殊的是因為交通部的一個錄屏專案的時候讓我們在台電搶修的平均的耗時從原本的15分鐘拉長到3.5個小時增加了14倍針對這個部分的時候我想請教一下部長或是王總經理 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12826.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12830.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
交通部這邊有沒有什麼樣子的溝通的機制來解決這樣子的一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12832.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12856.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
因為我們的一些地下化之後的一些線路都到地下了所以遇到狀況故障的時候我需要把人口一個一個挖出來才知道會在哪一個地方因為以前沒有這樣的機制因為是交通部這個路平專案之後產生這樣的影響那導致我們整個維修的時間大幅增加那我們要怎麼去解決這個部分我們我覺得技術可以解決的部分希望盲總經理跟公務長跟交 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12857.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12874.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
通過這邊好好去溝通找到一個好的解決方案好不好那我最後問一個點最後一個地方就是台電整個停電紀錄不安全因為桃園在112年的時候呢爆了310起停電事故那麼結果台電系統只登錄了210起 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12875.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12892.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
最後確認有44起是台電漏燈的一個情況當然我們台電一直在講說智慧電網的一個情況現在連我們停電登錄都還靠人工這邊在登錄而且還會漏燈這樣子對於我們智慧電網的推動不是一個很諷刺的一個狀態嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12893.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12913.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
跟委員報告有一些漏燈可能就是很小的用戶譬如說只有一戶停電只有一戶停電或者是一個變壓器下面的某幾戶停電這種比較小的才會有這樣子一個狀況所以當我們在用智慧電網要解決這個問題的時候我們希望不要出現這狀態因為監察院的報告直接點出來針對桃園市他們110年爆出來狀態當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12917.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12931.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
有44筆漏燈的一個狀態我們希望這東西可以改善以現在的一個技術我覺得這些都不是問題好不好好 我們盡量用科技的方式來解決OK 謝謝謝謝謝謝鄭振琴委員的資訊謝謝我們現在登記發言委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12938.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12959.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
除不在场外其余几军已发言完毕询答结束委员黄杰 张家俊 林楚英所提书面质询列入记录刊登公报书面质询及未及答复部分请相关单位于一周内以书面答复并复制本会委员另有要求期限者从期锁定 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12961.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12977.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
那我們現在討論事項所含三案合併詢答結束那我們現在請議事人員宣讀所有條文若有修正動議及附帶決議請一併宣讀那我們請行政機關可先行離開 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12979.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13002.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
謝謝我們今天就到我們把條文念完之後我們明天就開始做處理我們拜託我們的部長還有我們各單位相關人員先去溝通因為這個還牽扯到其他的司法所以溝通如果可以照你們的版本 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13002.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13011.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
我們就這樣處理你們不行的話我們就送協商因為我們不可能片面自己去更改所以這個部分再請部長費心一下謝謝那我們現在宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13015.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13032.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
電業法第七十一條之一條文修正草案行政院提案第七十一條之一以竊取毀壞或其他非法方法危害裝置容量一百萬千瓦以上之水力發電廠一百二十萬千瓦以上之火力發電廠之主要發電設備燃料輸出設備控制式開關廠資通訊機房 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13037.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13059.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
或特高壓以上輸電變電設備調度室或海底電力電纜之功能正常運作者處一年以上七年以下有期徒刑得併科新台幣一千萬元以下罰金意圖危害國家安全或社會安定而犯前項之罪者處三年以上十年以下有期徒刑得併科新台幣五千萬元以下罰金 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13059.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13076.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
请二项情形至酿成灾害者加重其刑至二分之一因而致人于死者处无期徒刑或七年以上有期徒刑得并科新台币一亿元以下罚金致重伤者处五年以上十二年以下有期徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13077.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13092.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
得并科新台币8000万元以下罚金因过失毁坏或以其他非法方法危害海底电力电缆之功能正常运作者处6月以下有期徒刑拘役或科新台币200万元以下罚金 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13093.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13114.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
第一項及第二項之未遂犯罰之供第一項至第三項及前項犯罪用之工具傳播或其他機械設備不問屬於犯罪行為人與否沒收之其經裁判沒收確定者得示個案情節需要拍賣或變賣或專案報準依下列方式之一處置之 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13114.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13133.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
一 無償留工公用二 廢棄三 為其他適當之處置委員王美惠等二十人提案第七十一條之一除第四項手具後標點符號修正為句號其餘同行政院提案委員李昆城等十八人提案第七十一條之一除第四項墨具修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13135.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13152.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
處一年以下有期徒刑居易貨科新台幣300萬元以下罰金其餘同行政院提案委員吳立華等16人提案第71條之一同行政院提案委員賴瑞榮等16人提案第71條之一處第四項目據修正為處六月以下有期徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13154.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13170.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
居易或科新台幣300萬元以下罰金其餘同行政院提案委員羅美玲等19人提案第71條之一第一項默劇修正為得併科新台幣4000萬元以下罰金第二項默劇修正為得併科新台幣8000萬元以下罰金 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13172.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13187.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
第三項第五句修正為得併科新台幣一億五千萬元以下罰金末句修正為得併科新台幣一億元以下罰金其餘同行政院提案委員賴會員等二十一人提案第七十一條之一第一項首句 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13189.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13210.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
其他非法方法修正为其他非法行为第四项手续修正为因过失毁坏或以其他非法行为危害海底电力电缆制功能无法正常运作者第六项序文修正为供第一项至第三项及前项犯罪用之工具传播或其他机械设备等 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13210.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13232.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
不問屬於犯罪行為人與否沒收之其經裁判沒收確定者得視個案情節需要拍賣或變賣或依專案報准依下列方式之一處置之其與同行政院提案委員黃婕等二十二人提案第七十一條之一增訂第七項有前項因沒收傳播之情形者 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13233.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13257.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
其犯罪行刺之全部收益不问属于犯罪行为人与否没收之但于全部或一部不能没收时追增其价额其余同行政院提案委员陈廷飞等17人提案第71条之一同行政院提案委员邱振军等21人提案第71条之一同行政院提案委员吴佩义等16人提案第71条之一同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13259.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13266.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
修正動議第一案第71條之一內容同行政院提案提案人楊瓊英鄭天才張祺凱 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13271.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13290.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
天然氣事業法第55條之一條文修正草案行政院提案第55條之一以竊取毀壞或其他非法方法危害天然氣進口事業之 卸收設備 除氣設備 氣化設備 參配設備 高壓輸配器設備或監控調度中心之功能正常運作者 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13291.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13310.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
处一年以上七年以下有期徒刑得并科新台币一千万元以下罚金意图危害国家安全或社会安定而犯前项之罪者处三年以上十年以下有期徒刑得并科新台币五千万元以下罚金前二项情形至酿成灾害者加重其行至二分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13311.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13337.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
因而致人于死者处无期徒刑或七年以上有期徒刑得并科新台币一亿元以下罚金致重伤者处五年以上十二年以下有期徒刑得并科新台币八千万元以下罚金因过失毁坏或以其他非法方法危害天然气进口事业之海底输气管线之功能正常运作者处六月以下有期徒刑拘役或科新台币二百万元以下罚金 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13338.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13362.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
第一項及第二項之未遂犯罰之供第一項至第三項及前項犯罪用之工具傳播或其他機械設備不問屬於犯罪行為人與否沒收之其經裁判沒收確定者得釋個案情節需要拍賣或變賣或專案抱準依下列方式之一處置之依無償留供供用二廢棄三為其他適當之處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13365.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13393.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
委員王美惠等20人提案第55條之一同行政院提案委員李坤成等18人提案第55條之一除第4項墨具修正為處一年以下有期徒刑拘役或科薪台幣300萬元以下罰金其餘同行政院提案委員吳麗華等16人提案第55條之一同行政院提案委員賴瑞榮等16人提案第55條之一除第4項墨具修正為處6月以下有期徒刑拘役或科薪台幣300萬元以下罰金 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13394.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13420.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
其餘同行政院提案委員羅美玲等19人提案第55條之一除第一項默劇修正為得併科新台幣3000萬元以下罰金第二項默劇修正為得併科新台幣8000萬元以下罰金第三項第五劇修正為得併科新台幣1億5000萬元以下罰金默劇修正為得併科新台幣1億元以下罰金其餘同行政院提案委員賴慧媛等21人提案第55條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13421.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13436.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
除第四項手續修正為因過失毀壞或以其他非法行為危害天然氣進口視野之海底輸氣管線之功能正常運作者其餘同行政院提案委員黃婕等22人提案第55條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13437.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13465.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
增订第七项 依前项因没收传播之情形者其犯罪行刺之全部收益不问属于犯罪行为人与否没收之但于全部或一部不能没收时追征其价额其余同行政院提案委员陈廷飞等17人提案第55条之一同行政院提案委员邱振军等24人提案第55条之一同行政院提案委员吴佩义等16人提案第55条之一同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13467.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13483.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
修正冬季第一案第55條之一除第四項守據修正為因過失毀壞或以其他非法行為危害天然氣進口失業之海底輸氣管線之功能正常運作者其餘同行政院提案提案人楊瓊英鄭天才張啟凱 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13488.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13507.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
自來水法第三條第十六條之一及第九十七條之一條文修認草案委員賴瑞榮等十六人提案第三條第一項序文及第一款至第六款同線型條文增訂第七款七有關訂定並公告與公共安全有關之自來水事業 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13508.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13533.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
取水、逐水、倒水、净水、送水、配水之必要设施设备清单及其维护管理基准并定期滚动检讨涉及海域者、会商、海洋主管机关办理其图资建置、揭露、标示与通报机制现行条文第七款一列为第八款委员赖瑞荣等16人提案第16条之一本方所称海底送水管线 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13533.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13552.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
指設置於我國領海、匹聯區或其他依法具有管轄權之海域與海床供輸送自來水之管線及其附屬設施本法所稱與公共安全有關之必要設施設備指中央主管機關依第3條第8款公告之設施設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13554.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13581.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
行政院提案第97條之一以竊取毀壞或其他非法方法危害自來水事業之海底送水管線與公共安全有關之自來水事業取水、煮水、倒水、浸水、送水、配水必要設施或設備之功能正常運作者處一年以上七年以下有期徒刑得併科新台幣一千萬元以下罰金意圖危害國家安全或社會安定而犯前項之罪者 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13582.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13610.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
处三年以上十年以下有期徒刑得并科新台币五千万元以下罚金请二项情形至酿成灾害者加重其刑至二分之一因而致人于死者处无期徒刑或七年以上有期徒刑得并科新台币一元以下罚金致重伤者处五年以上十二年以下有期徒刑得并科新台币八千万元以下罚金因过失毁坏或以其他非法方法危害致癌水 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13611.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13640.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
事业之海底送水管线之功能正常运作者处六月以下有期徒刑拘役或科兴台币200万元以下罚金第一项及第二项之未遂犯罚之供第一项至第三项及前项犯罪所用之工具传播或其他机械设备不问属于犯罪行为人与否没收之其经裁判没收确定者得是个案情节需要拍卖或变卖或专案抱准依下列方式之一处置之 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13641.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13669.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
一 無償流公共用二 廢棄三 為其他適當之處置第一項鎖定與公共安全有關之自來水事業取水 逐水 導水 進水送水 配水之必要設施設備由中央主管機關 會商相關機關及自來水事業橫著其規模供水量所在地區影響民眾生命身體財產安全程度及影響經濟產業程度等因素公告之其移動時亦同 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13671.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13691.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
委員王美惠等19人提案第97條之一同行政院提案委員李昆城等18人提案第97條之一除第四項墨具修正為處一年以下有期徒刑居易或科新台幣300萬元以下罰金其餘同行政院提案委員吳麗華等16人提案第97條之一同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13692.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13720.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
委員賴瑞榮等16人提案第97條之一除第4項默劇修正為除6月以下有期徒刑拘役獲科新台幣300萬元以下罰金其餘同行政院提案委員羅美玲等19人提案第97條之一除第1項默劇修正為得併科新台幣3000萬元以下罰金第2項默劇修正為得併科新台幣8000萬元以下罰金第3項第5劇修正為得併科新台幣1億5000萬元以下罰金 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13722.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13746.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
莫具修正為德病科新台幣1億元以下罰金其餘同行政院提案委員賴慧媛等21人提案第97條之一除第一項及第四項手續中其他非法方法等文字修正為其他非法行為其餘同行政院提案委員黃婕等22人提案第97條之一第一項同線型條文第四項手續修正為 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13746.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13776.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
因过失毁坏或以其他非法方法危害自来水事业之海底送气管线之功能正常运作者增订第七项有前项因没收船舶之情形者其犯罪行刺之全部收益不问属于犯罪行为人与否没收之但于全部或一部不能没收时追增其价额其余同行政院提案委员陈廷飞等17人提案第97条之一同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13777.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13789.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
委员吴佩义等16人提案第97条之一同行政院提案修正冬意第一案第97条之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13790.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13813.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
第四項修正為因過失毀壞移除或以其他非法方法危害自來水失業之海底送水管線或前項設施設備功能正常運作者處一年以下有期徒刑拘役或科興台幣300萬元以下罰金第七項手續修正為第一項鎖定與公共安全有關之自來水取水污水導水淨水 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13815.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13841.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
送水配水支标设施设备及海底送水管线其余同行政院提案提案人杨琼英郑天才张奇凯宣读完毕本日讨论事项三案均已询答结束及宣读条文完毕所列法案明日继续进行审查谢谢大家现在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13843.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13844.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
那個我就是剛剛 |