| IVOD_ID |
16976 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16976 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T12:03:26+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T15:17:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:13:34 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd8a46bec1ad1976d3222f6d0e83bf318a0aa126c40303dc2746dcde4980f371ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
4.羅被提名人慧雯-立法院第11屆第4會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函送國家通訊傳播委員會委員提名名單，蔣榮先為委員並為主任委員，程明修為委員並為副主任委員，黃葳威及羅慧雯均為委員，請同意案。
【10月20日（星期一）依序分別審查蔣被提名人榮先、程被提名人明修；10月22日（星期三）依序分別審查黃被提名人葳威、羅被提名人慧雯。】
【10月20日及22日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:03:26 - 15:17:00 |
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好 繼續開會我們接著要進行被提名的羅惠文女士說明與答選現在請被提名的羅惠文女士說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
5354.949 |
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主席各位委員各位女士各位先生各位媒體先進大家好我是世新大學傳播管理系助理教授羅惠文今天非常榮幸的被行政院長提名為NCC委員能站在這裡向大家報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
5375.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
5391.839 |
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接下來就讓我簡單的介紹一下我為什麼會接受這個提名在不久之前我鄉下的大伯父九十歲的大伯父他舉行了一個他的生日的宴會 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
5393.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
5421.589 |
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在那裡我看到了一個阿公他問我我是什麼工作我說我在大學教書他聽了之後就像見到救星一樣的抓著我的手說哇 我終於找到人可以請教問題了他說他有一個孫子自從給他手機之後他就把自己關在他的門裡連吃飯都不出來跟家人吃 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
5423.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
5428.576 |
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那整天就在這個房間裡面他說怎麼辦啊都不跟我說話耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
5431.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
5458.69 |
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我看到那個阿公憂慮的神情就想到是不是我們台灣也有上百萬的阿公阿嬤爸爸媽媽跟這位阿公一樣這麼憂心看到自己的孩子沉迷於手機或網路不知道他學習怎麼樣不知道他跟家人交流的情況怎麼樣交友的情況怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
5461.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
5478.705 |
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於是我在被徵詢NCC委員的時候我想到的這個阿公我想如果我能夠進入NCC服務我一定要改善這些問題想出適當的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
5481.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
5508.958 |
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我在世新大學的新聞傳播學院教書從我教書以來呢一直都會有學生是抱著新聞工作的理想憧憬和熱情進到我們的新聞傳播學院但當他們畢業呢不久之後呢在有時候是在路上偶遇有時候是回到學校找我 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
5510.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
5521.357 |
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他們會跟我說的是滿滿的失望因為他們不知道現在的環境不能讓他們實現新聞自由和新聞專業當我被徵詢NCC委員這個工作的時候我想到的是我的這些學生 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
5534.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
5544.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我希望能夠進入NCC服務能夠恢復新聞該有的專業以及新聞人媒體人的尊嚴 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
5546.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
5574.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
在我們的周遭相信大家都有朋友特別是高齡者長者有網路詐騙的經驗他們可能是出於好心可能是對於科技的不熟悉所以常常會成為網路詐騙的對象當我在被徵詢NCC委員這個工作的時候我想到的就是這些高齡者這些長者 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
5577.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
5588.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
如果我能夠進入NCC服務我希望能夠幫助他們幫助他們守護他們的財產守護他們的生命的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
5589.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
5616.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
以上就是我想進入NCC服務的起心動念我希望呢我們的NCC的政策是一個以人為本的政策我們能夠幫助這些該被幫助的人我們也希望我也希望我如果有機會進入到NCC呢我也會時時刻刻的提醒我自己這些真實的人才是我們真正要關懷的對象 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
5619.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
5628.927 |
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接下來我就簡單介紹一下我的學經歷我是台灣大學經濟系畢業政治大學新聞研究所碩士 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
5630.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
5650.051 |
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日本京都大學經濟學博士我大學階段呢剛好是台灣社會運動風起雲湧的年代那個時候只有三家電視台可以看而電視新聞的報導呢往往就跟我去參加的社會運動的現場的真實是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
5651.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
5662.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因此我在大學階段就很想要研究新聞的產制想要了解為什麼我們只有三家電視台我想要研究電視的市場的結構傳播產業的結構 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
5666.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
5695.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
後來我就進入了政治大學新聞研究所讀碩士那我在碩士階段主要使用的是媒體經濟學的方法去研究有限電視市場的競爭和經營管理那我的碩士論文呢就從那時候最流行的日本台開始探討起那回顧了台灣的日本電影的政策還有錄影帶還有日本電視節目的流通的情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
5698.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
5708.9 |
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也就是說呢 我從念書時期到現在呢我的核心關懷呢 就是管制國家能不能管 要怎麼管 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
5710.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
5734.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
在碩士畢業以後我考上日本台灣交流協會獎學金選擇日本諾貝爾獎得主最多的京都大學繼續深造研讀產業經濟學和地方經濟學我以放送產業和放送政策作為我主要的研究領域那我的博士論文呢最後是聚焦在台灣電視產業發展過程中的國家和資本的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
5740.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
5764.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那回到台灣之後呢我先在公共電視擔任研究員研究的是各國的公共媒體的課題那也參與過很多的國際交流的活動那我後來進入了學界那考量到我的雙專長的特性我最後選擇的是本校的傳播管理系那研究重心還是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
5764.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
5783.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
NHK 公共媒體日本放送產業還有影視產業傳播政策那我也特別關注在全球化時代下本國影視產業的發展那2016年起呢我是第六屆的公共電視的董事 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
5785.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
5795.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
在這個期間我推動了東南亞語新聞剛好公視的東南亞語新聞才剛得到卓越新聞獎的社會公器獎 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
5797.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
5814.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我在公共電視有將近六年的董事經驗它讓我對於傳統媒體受到的數位化衝擊有更深的體認那我也因為擔任公視的新聞諮詢委員會的召集人推動公視新聞部的數位轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
5818.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
5828.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
更加了解到在這個數位平台載製的生態中傳統媒體的生存和轉型是非常非常不容易的 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
5829.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
5848.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那除了實際參與到媒體的運作之外呢這十年來我也參與了很多的NCC的委託研究案因此對於NCC的近年來的政策的方向還有研擬法案的重點 規管的狀況都有一定程度的掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
5849.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
5862.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
例如在兩三年前我擔任一個NCC委託的新聞媒體溢價法的研究案的共同主持人那帶領了產業調查團隊深入研究台灣各個新聞台的經營問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
5864.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
5889.934 |
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深刻感受到我們台灣現在的新聞產業對跨國數位平台的依賴以及平台對於新聞生態的破壞在演算法和流量智商的邏輯下我們台灣的新聞的品質已經被犧牲了被破壞了這已經構成台灣民主的最大的問題那以上就是我個人簡單的介紹謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
5898.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
5926.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
好被提名人羅惠文女士說明完畢現在請登記第一位本院委員洪孟凱召委發言其他在場人士電話聲音請小聲一點好感謝主席那我們請羅被提名人請羅被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
5931.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
5932.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
好 被提名了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
5934.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
5963.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
來 我想您應該知道本席要問什麼不過本席問的問題更因為您是在去年4月30號陳建仁院長就已經提名您來擔任NCC委員是不是是的因為12月的時候我們在三讀通過相關的法令修正之後現任的卓榮泰院長又要再重新提NCC的委員請教什麼時候卓院長才跟您來徵詢希望您擔任NCC委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
5965.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
5992.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
我時間滿早的去年可能11月多去年11月多對所以您是比其他三位都早其他三位讓我們知道的是今年的5月有人說5月2號有人說5月5號那您是去年11月多就被徵詢卓院長卓院長親自跟您溝通是的好 溝通那時候就希望您擔任NCC委員您也就在11月的時候就答應了 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
5995.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
6019.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我答應應該是是稍稍微有一點時間但是我後來有答應沒有錯稍微有一點時間是多久這種記得住是去年今年去年還是去年去年年底真相大白了我想今天四位NCC的被提名人來到國會殿堂如果我們都假設他是屬實的講話 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
6022.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
6045.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
主委被提名5月5號徵詢副主委5月5號被徵詢今天上午黃委員說是5月2號被徵詢羅委員是去年11月被徵詢都答應了那到7月31號行政院才送出名單是為什麼羅委員你會不會心裡會覺得訝異奇怪 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
6048.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
6069.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
你明明就去年11月就已經答應了那為什麼我們外界一直在講是說NCC的委員還沒有出來那您也選在那邊如果說我是一個這個員工被一個公司面試都說已經要錄取我了結果奇怪怎麼這個這個安保都還沒有發出你有沒有再詢問一下什麼理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
6070.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
6098.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
沒有就等嘛那就只有等到行政院長7月31才送出來但行政院長講的是說有人有職業考量所以假設這四位委員都沒有說謊那說謊只有一個人啊卓榮泰院長國家可以這樣子玩嗎國家的制度可以這樣搞嗎行政院在7月31以前到底在忙什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
6101.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
6118.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我只有一個答案我想大家心目中都有一個答案叫三個字大罷免七三一以前如果行政院沒有再搞大罷免的話早就這批名單五月就可以送出來了我們也可以好好的來針對問題來處理問題了羅委員提名人您同意嗎來請教一下您之前有提過 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
6129.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
6153.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
新聞自由可以吃嗎本席看了一下這是一篇文章您洋洋灑灑灑的寫了一兩千字的文章標題就是新聞自由能吃嗎問號您到現在還是堅持這樣的一個態度嗎我那篇文章的主旨呢本席也看了把你那兩千兩三千字的文章都給看完了 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
6155.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
6184.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
對我那篇文章的主旨就是在解釋何謂新聞自由不能無限上綱的新聞自由是不是那新聞自由誰認定是新聞立場還是新聞自由兩者不同對吧就是說你有言論自由你即便你講的一百句我不重聽的話你的言論自由是我不能掐著你的脖子讓你避準但我可以表達說你講的我都不接受 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
6187.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
6208.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
我那篇文章的主旨主要是在談新聞自由並不是媒體老闆的自由新聞自由不是媒體老闆的自由但不管怎麼樣你今天可以用新聞自由的名義你今天可以用撤照的名義然後到最後把一家新聞海關掉嗎即便他有100個你覺得是說他不中聽的話你認同 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
6210.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
6231.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
行政機關有權利可以因為撤照的關係因為他手握省照的一個權利所以說一個新聞台就這樣子被結束了他從此發生不了了他的意見從此無法表達了他的媒體人裡面的記者裡面的從業人員從此沒有辦法再跑新聞了你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
6234.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
6249.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我還是主張新聞自由最重要的是保障新聞工作者的自由新聞工作者的自由是包含他的所以中天新聞台有哪一個記者有出來講說他們有被綁架嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
6251.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
6264.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
中天新聞台到目前為止有哪一個記者哪一個主播哪一個新聞媒體人員有跳出來講說我被綁架了我寫了我沒有自由我在新聞工作的時候我不是寫我的意思的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
6268.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
6284.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那如果沒有的話你怎麼能夠用你那時候還不是委員你那時候也我今天早上也問另外一位提名人提名人講是說因為他不是委員所以他沒有看到全貌所以他沒有辦法判斷但他講了那是中華民國新聞史上很特別的案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
6286.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
6311.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那您現在您也不是委員在當時所以你也不清楚說那個審案的過程你一個外人可能你比其他人更了解新聞的一個脈絡但是你一個外人沒有看到全貌而也沒有任何一個記者跳出來講說我被綁架了我寫的不是我的我不是我的自由去寫的新聞那我們是應該要尊重那個記者他的新聞專業從業人員的專業他寫出來的新聞那你憑什麼說那個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
6315.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
6335.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
沒有新聞自由的新聞沉默無語 啞口無言無法回答我不是無法回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
6336.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
6350.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
因為委員剛剛的提問裡頭它有很多的層次包含的第一個是講NCC的裁罰和NCC的決策就是有沒有無線上綱到可以去關一家新聞台嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
6351.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
6372.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
然後第二個問題是他都沒有新聞工作者出來申冤那第二個問題我沒有辦法回應那但是第一個問題你有看到嗎你有任何的證據顯示是說中天新聞台他們所做的新聞是被綁架的新聞是沒有新聞自由的新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
6375.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
6403.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個在當時我蒐集資料的過程裡面還有我採訪的過程裡面確實是有聽到的妳採訪的過程是的因為我長期研究台灣的傳播產業那我也採訪過一些新聞工作者庭銘仁我來看我來跟您講一下比較客觀的數字現在有已經有這個法院裁決也已經有二十幾連敗的一個部分了那如果說未來真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
6404.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
6427.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
法院司法也判定是說當時的這個所謂的關台撤照的一個狀況其實是沒有不符合這個比例原則的話那你認不認為這個撤銷關台處分應該要做或說如果說依法而這個媒體他提出了相關的一個行政救濟的話那你覺得未來應該要怎麼面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
6429.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
6442.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
這個部分當然就是尊重最後的司法判決的結果那如果說最後確實是如此咧那當然就是那是不是就是侵犯了新聞自由往下走那是不是就侵犯了新聞自由 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
6442.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
6470.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
但我目前所看到的相關的文件並沒有直接可以去回應委員所說的新聞自由的這個部分因為事實上也不是二十六連敗所以你還在堅持你的新聞自由能吃嗎這樣的言論我只最後確認一下是的好 謝謝了解了謝謝貝提名人好 謝謝侯文凱召委發言完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
6471.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
6493.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
現在請林國成委員發言謝謝召委 請我們羅提名人請羅貝提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
6501.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
6525.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好羅貝提名人剛才我還是聆聽你的高見第一個我要聽聽你對於NCC委員他要用什麼態度去做他的NCC委員然後NCC委員他到底主要工作有哪兩項可以告訴我嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
6527.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
6552.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
NCC委員最重要的就是他必須是獨立行使職權依據專業還有呢要執行什麼工作執行的是 掌理的是跟通訊傳播事業相關的工作 簡單二要 第一個身為NCC委員一定要客觀中立沒有錯吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
6554.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
6569.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
第二他要做的工作就是監督跟管理兩者所以這個態度就會跟他的工作有所連關所以在這裡我要特別提醒你NCC委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
6570.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
6592.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
不是用任何喜好應該這兩個原則一個就是客觀一個就是中立另外一個他要執行的就是監督跟管理這兩項業務所以你如果有客觀的立場中立的立場當然做出來就會不一樣這個我特別提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
6593.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
6608.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
好 那個因為我本來對這個你講這個新聞自由可不可以做幫助這一點我本來也不以為然那當然因為你是寫者專家出身你對於你自己的言論 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
6609.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
6625.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那當然我們還是尊重可是我特別要跟你強調你可以不可以告訴我你的認為新聞自由能吃嗎你這個態度主要你可以舉例 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
6627.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
6643.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
為什麼會讓你有這種感覺可以不可以告訴我有實際發生的例子讓你有這個學有專長而來投書去做這件事可以簡要告訴我嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
6644.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
6660.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好的 謝謝委員的提問關於我這篇文章呢好像是在這個國會殿堂裡頭有過一些討論我也覺得很榮幸因為它就是妳這個是投書嘛對 它是一篇小小的文章 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
6660.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
6680.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
那我現在去看那個點閱率還是滿低的但是大家這麼看重這篇文章我覺得是非常的好因為我其實這篇文章的標題呢就用的是那個時候已經是五六年前了沒有啦我不要談這個文章來 羅貝提名人我要的就是說你為什麼會有這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
6682.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
6699.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
親身體驗捷的新聞不自由或自由的有感而發寫出這個我要的是這個答案是的…因為那個時候大家對於中天的新聞自由能不能夠無限上綱有一個很大的討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
6700.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
6729.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那我作為一個傳播學者通常在這種有爭議事件發生的時候我覺得作為一個學者就是有必要來說明這個學理上的ABC是什麼所以什麼什麼能吃嗎這個我們來尊重我們尊重你來這裡我兩個問題我請問一下談到中天你們也直接批評中天的老闆干涉新聞自由請問有事實根據嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
6731.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
6756.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
是的在那個時候是有在中天的換照的公聽會上那就已經有你有參與嗎我沒有因為我那時候只是一般的學者所以在那邊我們有看到那不然你怎麼當機立斷也批評人家老闆他干涉新聞自由好 另外一個你認為現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
6759.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
6763.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
綠色媒體老闆有沒有干涉媒體 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
6765.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
6791.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個部分我不清楚你不清楚好其實我對你的評價當然專業無庸置疑我們當然是尊重另外一個你兩次被提名為NCC委員這是一個少見的奇案我的看法第一個你的專業受肯定第二個你立設思想 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
6793.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
6818.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
是絕對讓執政當局百分之百相信請問這兩者之間你認為是什麼一是專業受執政肯定二就是你立設思想跟他們很接近甚至於很超前所以他才兩次的提名你認為你是屬於哪一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
6820.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
6842.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
我因為不是行政院長本人所以我的發言也只能夠也只能夠是順著委員的提問那我做一點猜測因為第一個我跟民進黨沒有淵源所以如果說我是綠色思想那個連我自己都找不到證據了 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
6843.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
6870.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
但是在新聞專業方面我確實是如果以這十年的研究來說我這十年來做的都是和NCC相關的題目那你看起來還是專業取勝啦專業取勝並非是綠色思想而被肯定啦你的話就是這樣嘛那也沒有關係這個行政院長的權利我們當然充分會尊重他另外一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
6871.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
6893.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
你跟靜電視的關係密切你也當他們的這些主任委員也就是他們智利倫理主任委員你認為你當過他們的主任委員請問一下靜電視風波不斷事端連連請問你認為你這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
6897.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
6923.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
禁電視的自立新聞自立委員會的主任委員你認為你禁止或者應該要怎麼做其實倫理委員會或說自立倫理委員會呢它是一個NCC要求的每一個有自立新聞的電視台都應該要建立建制的自立機制我時間也差不多因為我一向 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
6924.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
6939.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
一樣其實我的問題只是把問題凸顯出來我並不是很尖銳的問題事實上我問了你確實是進電視裡面的倫理的主任委員我不是裡面我不是職員不是員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
6940.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
6967.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我是外部專家的身份對 你外部專家等於我是代表台灣的公民社會去監督他們所以我問你的意思就是禁電視事端連連以及對它評價不一你有什麼感覺我跟大家一樣作為公民社會的一份子我們就是繼續監督下去好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
6980.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
6993.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好 林國成執行完畢 現在請李坤澤召委執行謝謝林國成委員請羅貝提名人請羅貝提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
7005.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
7032.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
好謝謝羅貝提名人來江東委員會經過這樣的一個江東委員會及教育文化委員會及所有委員的這樣的一個詢答以及說明是一個重要的過程不管結果是如何都是要來跟社會跟委員具體的說明相關的政策及想法那我來請教一下羅貝提名人有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
7033.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
7050.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
在過去你對新聞製播的這樣的一個過程現在出現了大量的AI生成的這樣一個文本跟影響那我看你的看法好像是以自律為優先然後法規補充為原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
7051.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
7068.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那广电媒体应该先进行内部的规范做好事实的查核资料的保护那实际上我们看这个多数的媒体他的自律委员会人力是不足的 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
7069.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
7085.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
而且資訊也沒有公開那其實社會上很多人批評這些自律委員會好像形同虛設啦當然每個媒體的程度不一樣那你支持這樣的一個自律跟他律並行 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
7086.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
7106.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
但是實務上大多數的這樣的一個媒體的資歷委員會人力不足跟資訊未公開使得多數的這樣的一個媒體的資歷委員會其實沒有辦法發揮它的監督的功能你認為NCC在這樣一個過程可以扮演怎樣的角色呢來 請說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
7108.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
7121.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
好 謝謝委員的提問呃 誠如剛剛呃 李委員所 李昭薇所說的現在的自律機制呢好像沒有像我們這個在當初構思的時候好 發揮得這麼的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
7123.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
7146.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
那我覺得有一大部分的原因就是因為社會大眾對於自律這件事情還不太了解比如說他自律要能夠成立呢他要有民眾的申訴民眾要感覺到這件事情呢比如說他在看到假新聞或者他看到了有這個侵犯兒少權益的新聞他覺得不妥 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
7146.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
7171.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
他必須要去申訴那各個新聞台的自律機制通常都是在做的就是民眾的申訴的處理所以第一個就是以NCC的立場呢我們會加強宣導 宣導民眾申訴還有民眾要反應 民眾要檢舉那第二個呢也是回應剛剛的林國成委員的提問 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
7172.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
7187.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
因為他質疑我做這個自律禁電視的自律委員會然後就認為說一個學者去做這個電視台的自律委員會就貼了標籤說那我就是禁的人如果我們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
7187.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
7203.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
連我們的國會議員對於或者是我們的社會大眾會有這樣的誤解的話它會讓很多想要加入自律機制把自己的專業提供給電視台的傳播學者也好或其他領域的學者也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
7204.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
7226.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
會讓大家更卻步不前認為說我只要幫這個機構或者是幫這個電視台做這個自律委員會我就被認為是要幫他們護航幫他們背書所以這個觀念的釐清是非常重要的我們不應該把自律委員就等同於那個電視台 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
7227.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
7250.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
而我們一般的民眾對於你的權益被侵犯的時候你也應該要勇敢你要勇敢地站出來好 勇敢是有感覺另外勇敢就是有勇氣你要有勇氣地站出來告訴這個電視台好 告訴這個媒體你不能夠這樣做我想最重要的就是我們第一步可以從這個部分做起 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
7251.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
7275.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
是的 因為我覺得我們對於媒體的這樣的一個監督傳播的內容其實是要多元的聲音是要公民的參與來作為監督這種傳播的內容最主要它就是要廣大多元的聲音那其實我看NCC的這樣的一個頻道的評鑑 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
7276.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
7297.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
还是偏重在技术跟法尊缺乏多元的声音以及性别平衡的这样的一个指标其实就是需要有外部的学者公民团体的参与如果说缺乏这种学者专家 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
7298.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
7325.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
公民團體這種外部多元的聲音參與的話我認為這種評鑑會失去 失焦啊它變成只是一種程序而非實質的多元那你過去也提過說要保障多元的聲音能夠發聲那NCC啊我認為它目前的評鑑還是有點偏於形式的這樣的一個指標那 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
7326.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
7336.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
我是要請教你你認為在評鑑制度中要納入多元性與平衡性的這樣的一個量化的項目來請說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
7337.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
7360.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
好 謝謝委員剛剛委員提到了一個很重要的觀點就是多元性包括我們的前一個問題是在講自律機制其實自律的委員如果能夠多元也是一件很好的事情那評鑑的部分同樣也是我認同委員所說的我們應該要增加多元性的指標在裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
7361.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
7383.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
就像要邀請公民團體以及學者專家來參加這種相關的這樣一個評鑑的項目嗎是好最後我再請教說對於防制假訊息應該由政府跟民間來共同防範以及三律共管這是你所說的自律 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
7384.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
7410.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
他律以及法律但現在政府跟法律目前可觸及的範圍是只有廣電的範疇那假訊息已經轉到相關的YouTubeTikTokPacket缺乏這種跨媒體的追蹤的這樣的一個機制那NCC雖然說可以採訪傳統的媒體但是這種網路傳播卻是無法可管 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
7411.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
7427.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那造成治理跟監管上的一個落差你有什麼看法你可以列舉出相關通常會裁法的件數那這種但是沒有回應這種訊息跨平台傳播的問題這是一個很嚴重的問題來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
7429.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
7445.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
在傳統的廣電媒體的部分根據《衛光法》的第27條就有關於事實查證的這個規範在裡面那這個部分可以防止廣電媒體的假訊息的傳播 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
7448.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
7473.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
至於在其他平台方面的傳播或者是假訊息所導致的這種詐騙的情況其實有跨部會的分工的狀況就是大家一起來防止假訊息好 那請你注意相關的這些項目以上謝謝李崑澤召委的指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
7480.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
7484.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
謝謝林國成委員現在請翁曉琳委員發言好主席好在這邊有請羅貝提名人請羅貝提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
7508.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
7520.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
主席好還有羅碧婷名人好我這邊還是稱呼您羅教授比較習慣我想今天針對NCC委員的資格審查那我在這裡我還是比較強調專業雖然說從您先前的投書裡面大家可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
7523.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
7550.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
約略已經可以判斷出您的對於一些議題還有一些政治的看法那麼但是我想NCC的這個委員審查還是蠻強調專業的所以我今天我想就教您幾個問題首先請教您是否同意相同內容要做相同管制政府應該避免因為不同的傳輸技術而為差別管理的這個說法相同內容要不要做相同管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
7556.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
7574.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
這個問題很抽象所以相同的內容只是內容的類型還是同樣一個內容同樣一個節目的內容他今天可能在廣電媒體上面播出了同時又在YT上面播出了同時又在不同的社群媒體平台的播出您認為要不要做相同的管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
7575.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
7604.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
理想上他們應該要應該要有相同的管制的強度但事實上是做不到的是 為什麼做不到所以您認為說現在社群媒體的這樣子這麼寬鬆的管制那相對於廣電媒體的這樣的很嚴格的管制您基本上是支持這樣的做法我不支持這樣的做法但是因為目前的NCC的內容監理就只有到廣電媒體的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
7605.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
7633.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
好那所以總之就是您不太認同就是相同內容要做相同管制然後呢政府也不可以因為不同技術而去做而做差別的管理是嗎不是我認為相同的內容相同的內容它的管制的比如說這個內容是錯的假訊息它就算是在不同的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
7634.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
7649.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
我想回到這個廣電法裡面來談好了因為現在其實大家對於就是網路上面的內容還有它的管制的標準那麼是不是應該要和在廣電媒體上面的管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
7650.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
7665.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
標準是其一或者是說要拉高網路媒體內容的管制那就這個部分其實社會上面有非常多的討論那麼請問您支持NCC應該要作為網路的主管機關嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
7671.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
7698.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
不好意思 待會兒可能請主席要多給我幾秒鐘因為羅貝婷一人她都比較慢回答好 來 請說我個人的立場會認為NCC它目前在法律裡頭它已經有網際網路政策的擬定政策和法令的執掌了 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
7701.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
7705.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
是嗎NCC還有這樣的執掌嗎是的在117年的NCC現在監理的對象是什麼她監理的內容監理的對象還是廣電還是廣電媒體除了廣電之外呢內容的部分啦是只有廣電 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
7715.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
7733.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
但是在網際網路的部分是可以擬定政策因為這個詞它有一點點大是說接下來我要提問的就是說您知道NCC之前曾經有提過與網路媒體相關的這個法案嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
7735.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
7752.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
有的譬如說你可以舉例嗎數位中階服務法還有就是其實NCC現在也有已經公佈了網際網路政策白皮書了NCC其實過去一直都有公佈相關的白皮書我們看一下其實NCC其實從這些年來 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
7754.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
7773.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
他不仅仅是近年他最近一次是炒你了也推出了数位终点服务法在之前有网界网路视听服务管理法数位通讯传播服务法还有网界网路视听服务法等等这些不同的法案那么看起来NCC基本上他在网路政策上面他是想要拿主导权 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
7773.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
7793.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
但是 是不適合當主管機關我想這是NCC委員未來必須要面對的問題他到底有沒有能力可以去當這個主管機關那麼接下來我想請問一下就是說您同意 您認為經營媒體 頻道 直播 節目內容是不是屬於言論自由的一環所謂的媒體禁用權它涵蓋範圍在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
7796.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
7824.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這個部分是屬於言論自由的一個部分所以就ACC的角度 監理機關的角度您認為對於網電媒體的深色 換照等等應該是採取嚴格的態度還是寬鬆的態度在深色的部分我認為是可以寬鬆一點的好 所以真的選擇執照的時候就要做嚴格管理那接下來我要請教的就是說頻道執照一旦廢照之後可不可以再提出申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
7829.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
7844.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
在我個人的因為當然這個是一個比較大的題目那在過去也沒有發生過沒有發生過有再申請執照的這個狀況但就以我個人的立場來看我認為是可以的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
7845.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
7866.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
因為氣焰在衛光法裡面基本上他是可以同意頻道執照廢照之後兩年之後他就可以再提出申請所以如果說中天頻道中天電視台今天再提出頻道申請您會支持嗎當然他可以來申請所以您會支持嗎從中天氣焰的表現您會支持他可以重新拿到執照嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
7868.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
7878.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
拿到執照就是NCCC是一個合一制所以大家要一起討論好看起來您還是未必這個問題以上謝謝謝謝翁曉琳委員發言完畢現在請煥雲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
7895.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
7901.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
好 謝謝莊委 有請那個被提名人羅惠文教授 請羅被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
7909.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
7934.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
好那個因為我看到那個羅教授在專業上其實是有研究過日本的通訊傳播的相關法規還有日本的通訊傳播的相關的機制因為剛剛翁小玲委員一直問到就是NCC的部分我想請問你一般來講的話你覺得我們的NCC對於就是新聞傳播的相對於其他民主國家是比較寬鬆還是比較嚴格 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
7937.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
7950.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
跟民主國家相比的話對 民主國家 威權國家我們當然就不比了嘛其實應該是差不多的應該是差不多的 就是我們的法規或者是我們的這些案件 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
7952.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
7980.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
看到以我瞭解的英國當然就是說日本我沒有研究其實就假新聞這方面未經查證的假新聞其實臺灣是相對寬鬆那當然就是我要講的部分是說我還是希望NCC因為我們新聞媒體真的非常的遏制應該是要就是能夠就是更能夠做好媒體的自律跟他律剛剛我們昭緯其實也有提到就是自律他律那不管是兒少性貧 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
7981.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
8002.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
還有媒體的品質的維護那當然今天我想針對AI跟新聞的紅線在哪裡請教那個羅被提名人因為我看到這一次在提名的時候我們都有提到在AI的時代其實議題越來越嚴重那根據國外的一個調查其實從2023年開始已經有85% |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
8006.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
8032.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
五的新聞製作的各個環節如果我們就四十六個國家一百零五位新聞從業人員來看的話超過百分之八十五的人已經在使用AI那超過百分之六十的這些新聞從業人員中他們其實是擔心的就是擔心他影響新聞的公信力那我的辦公室研究整理一下新聞使用AI其實有四大風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
8033.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
8049.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
一個就是資料偏誤可能會導致假新聞甚至我們有看到身為的圖片如果沒有註明的話影像它其實就是一種假新聞還有就是責任歸屬難以追究還有就是媒體其實也是迎合流量忽視公益 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
8050.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
8067.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
最後一個就是他導致缺乏倫理跟文化的敏感度這是四個風險那我們看一下國外的媒體怎麼面對AI那這是我辦公室整理的我們查了不同的媒體如果以我們看到有四類的就是自我規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
8068.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
8092.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
一個是AI的內容一定要經過審查才能刊出一個是使用AI不管是圖片或者是新聞要註明第三個禁止使用深圍第四個是減少演算法的偏見以BBC來講他做到其中的三個那以那個CBC就是加拿大廣播公司他也是比較嚴謹的自我規範也做到其中三者 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
8092.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
8112.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
最後一個是美聯社那它比較不一樣的是它會規範多一個拒絕聲尾的內容就是只要是AI生成的假影像假聲音那甚至譬如說去偽造李昆澤 趙偉的聲音這種都是不能夠刊登的完全不允許的那這是國際媒體已經有這方面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
8114.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
8133.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那我們辦公室查了一下臺灣的發現以剛剛這幾個指標第三個就比較就是跟申委有關但是我們他用不同的文字只有公視目前主動訂了AI使用準則這四個都不可以那再來的第二名是報導者其中有三個關於申委的部分他們沒有處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
8134.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
8162.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
最後是中央社中央社有一個就是深層必須要經過編輯臺審查之後才能發布那他們還有一個就是不得用AI處理任何個資或機密的資料以防資料外洩或誤用那所以臺灣來講的話初步有這個開始那所以我想請問您我想這應該也是您研究國外國內的傳播新聞相關的政策的時候面對到的新興課題 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
8164.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
8187.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那如果您當選之後那您認為NCC應該要如何訂定廣播電視AI的使用規範那是不是會評估就是明確規範不管是標示AI生成的內容還有禁播未經人工審核的AI內容還有避免AI有歧視或者是身為這種非常具有誤導性的新聞傳播內容呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
8190.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
8206.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
關於這個AI使用規範的訂定委員所提的這些我都非常的認同因為畢竟現在我剛剛提到那個高齡容易被詐騙的其中一個原因也是因為他們並不知道現在的科技已經發展到真假難辨了 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
8207.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
8228.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
所以他們不知道AI的那個身為的影片是可以偽裝成他的親人偽裝成一個權威的機構的人所以這個真的是更何況說他如果今天是出現在新聞上面或者節目上面所以我認同是NCC應該要來訂定AI的使用規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
8229.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
8249.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以就是如果您當選的話您認為就是NCC應該要來評估就是要能夠一起建立廣播電視的AI使用的倫理跟透明標準是不是是的OK好那謝謝您的回應那我沒有其他的問題謝謝好謝謝范林委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
8251.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
8263.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
質詢完畢現在請陳秀寶委員陳秀寶委員陳秀寶委員不在現在請葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在跟葉委員對調嗎好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
8291.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
8301.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
謝謝 因為剛才委員要來助理要來第一名單的時候我低頭沒有看到跟助理抱歉好 我們現在請劉書斌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
8326.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
8327.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
謝謝主席 那請羅貝提名人羅貝提名人我也稱呼你為羅教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
8348.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
8367.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我們知道國家通訊傳播委員會是我國負責監理廣電通訊的獨立機關那在通訊環境快速變化數位平台崛起的情況之下外界對於NCC角色的期待包括執法跟裁罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
8370.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
8381.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
能夠規劃及回應產業的社會變化是很期待的因此我想要詢問您NCC現在最需要處理面對的三項核心問題是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
8385.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
8408.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
NCC最需要處理的問題呢目前有法律的建制不足的問題就是我們的目前的法規都是二十幾年前就已經基本的樣貌都長在那了但是我們現在的主要的大家的媒體的使用都是手機為主或者是社群媒體為主網路平台為主 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
8409.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
8427.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
所以是法規需要修改對 法規需要修改還有嗎另外還有一個就是其實剛剛也有委員有提到平建制度像是平建制度或者是這個就是所謂的要他們法尊的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
8427.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
8444.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
那那個部分呢它其實也可以適度地適度地做一些修改好 謝謝羅教授那因為這部分我想要跟您看到的是NCC作為一個獨立機關其實是非常重要的是在於一個信任的問題因為它獨立機關如果不能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
8445.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
8462.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
獨立的去行使職權包括很多的這種干預在裡面的話就是大問題我們現在看這樣的一個調查結果在2020年的時候11月份的台灣民意調查基金會裡面做全國性民調當中呢68.4%的民眾是不信任NCC的 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
8463.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
8482.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
好 那是因為受到他有不受政治力的干預那我們看到在民眾黨去年的11月所做的這個委託民調當中對NCC的全國的滿意度就只有33%那這不滿意度這個達到將近八五成的地步那包括的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
8483.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
8504.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
對於民眾不只對NCC的這樣子的一個不信任度包括對媒體的信任度也是低的尤其是他這個不信任度高達54.2 超過一半那學歷越高是越不信任這個事情請讓你了解那因此這對方針對目前NCC與媒體不信任的這個問題那您擔任委員後將如何來解決呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
8508.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
8531.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
有沒有什麼想法這應該算是兩個問題一個是NCC本身一個就是我們台灣的媒體的專業的問題那在NCC的部分NCC目前的透明度和問責性應該都還可以再加強那比如說很多人都不知道NCC的裁罰裁決是怎麼出來的那關於這部分呢可以去加強它的透明度 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
8531.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
8547.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
因為想到NCC的問題那我就先因為你在回答我們本黨的問卷的時候你有一些回覆嗎我們現在看一下在這個回覆當中你有特別的提到這個回覆當中我們先看一下你認為說針對這個新聞媒體的這部分他是強調的這個責任的機制當中有包括是第一個要先自律為先行那再來是輿論的監督再就是法律的規範是吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
8560.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
8589.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
是 那這個地方呢我們就想要問你的一個問題就是說因為您曾經在109年12月到113年4月23號的時候是當作定電式的自立委員會的委員跟主委嗎是 那我們現在繼續看下去的時候您對於我們看到的在等於說111年到111年的9月在這當中所發生的很多NCC的這個爭議事件的時候深造發生很多事情的時候呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
8590.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
8608.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
您當時作為自律委員會的委員甚至是主委的時候呢對於這樣子的一個回應就是你開過會議記錄當中顯現出來說針對管理團隊干涉新聞自由的指控只依循外部公平人的研究來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
8610.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
8627.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那並沒有針對說你們認為說不可能再做超越這份報告不錯也許是這樣子可是很重要的我們想問的是說你在遇到這種情況的時候有沒有再進一步再啟動調查了解情況那我們現在想詢問的是你後來這邊有沒有再做下一步的你接受這份報告你是不是讓那這個淨電視這邊有沒有後續的這些處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
8630.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
8651.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
好 謝謝劉委員的提問劉委員非常的細心有找到這個部分其實我那時候一碰到管理團隊的紛爭的時候我是第一個出來說我們應該要來調查這件事情的而且我們也訪問了調查了很多的員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
8652.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
8676.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那在我們開始之後呢我們因為靜電視比較特別 妳的調查是在這個外部委員外部調查報告之前還是之後我比他早一點點對 但是妳後來已經接受了這個外部的調查啦但是我做的沒有他仔細因為我不是對 那我重點 請妳回答我的重點說這個調查妳接受外部的報告之後那妳的後續靜電視有針對這邊有修改嗎有做一些改變嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
8678.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
8697.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
我要說的是我是自律委員會呢是等於是像是一個外部的外部專家學者諮詢的一個角色那今天是特別的是它是一個自律雙委制它另外有公平人所以是沒有作為嗎是不是就沒有作為的沒有沒有我沒有作為的因為我們是先啟動調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
8699.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
8722.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
但是公平人那一邊呢他做了更長期的調查那因為我們是我們是只有知名劉教授您用迴避的問題我說這個部分已經在外部已經做掉您接受了可是在外部後面的繼續的部分您並沒有呈現出來所以這部分我們先看到了因為並沒有看到靜電視有什麼做後面的改變那我們看看您要求的第二部分是輿論對不對輿論的這樣子的一個詳盡的效果那我們繼續往下看在 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
8727.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
8747.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
這個輿論我們現在看到的是已經有我自己在查的情況之下在以去年喔九月開始的時候那柯文哲主席他有就進來的部分那針對的是最終是他一直到有一個很重要就是有有期許就是輿論當中其實對這一部分天天在很多的電視媒體啦好都都有呈現出來的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
8747.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
8770.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
有看到是有一個小省1500的所涉及的這個被檢舉到NCC的部分那部分的這裡有13件到了到9月18號的時候呢已經增加到了33件當然這邊的還涉及到到的是靜電室這邊其實中間也被檢舉到說到NCC有兩件那但是因為後來這部分就沒有再做處理啦但是我們可以看到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
8772.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
8789.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
NCC的部分針對所謂的輿論所創造的效果當中並沒有發生效果的孤立啊並沒有譬如說針對這一部分現在更重要的是也就是我們為什麼國民對於媒體的這個不信任感是這麼高的原因是在於說就算是自律還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
8790.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
8812.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
包括媒體的或是說NC是因為現在的就算是因為人數不足沒辦法去開會可是他所做出來的一些相關部分的一些說明等等的都是應該很有效的要做這樣的一個說明謝謝張偉國主席我現在簡單的說一下再說既然在您所說的那三個部分在媒體自律還有包括的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
8814.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
8836.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
這個輿論的效果甚至是包括的是法律的這一部分那更重要的是那法律部分你剛才說有需要修改嘛對不對包括你剛才說是因為有些過時但是這一部分針對所謂的獨立機關要做這些部分的時候我現在在最後一個問題就是說如果您擔任NCC委員的話順利講說你發生到經新聞相同類似的事情你會如何處理還是要依賴外部機制嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
8840.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
8852.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我就是依法行政就是我在做NCC委員跟我之前的學者角色是完全不一樣的我們就是依法行政獨立行使職權而且NCC是一個合一職 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
8853.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
8871.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
好但是我想您會針對如果也出現到這個情況的時候就是說如果有要出現這個已經政治干預這部分因為我也想期許你啦NCC的委員他擔任取來之後他的獨立機關甚至獨立的這個角色還包括政治干預絕對是要排除掉好就這樣子謝謝謝謝劉淑冰委員發言完畢現在請林一錦委員林一錦委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
8882.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
8897.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
林益錦委員不在現在請林俊憲委員林俊憲委員林俊憲委員不在現在請蔡奇昌委員蔡奇昌委員蔡奇昌委員不在現在請何欣淳委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
8898.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
8914.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在現在請陳素月委員陳素月委員陳素月委員不在現在請徐富奎委員徐富奎委員徐富奎委員不在現在請羅廷維委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
8923.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
8926.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
好 謝謝主席有請羅貝提名人請羅貝提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
8935.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
8953.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
好 貝提名人好我想今天一整天大家都在討論NCC獨立行使的重要性那也要兼負責維護媒體的多樣性保障言論自由更重要的是促進整個通訊見錢穩健的一個重責大任 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
8954.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
8972.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
所以在這個部分上我想今天有直播那您在備詢但是我想在這個狀況之下可不可以跟所有的選舉國人來分享一下你要如何確保自己的獨立性並且不會受政治的干預按照法規我們就是要中立我們就是要獨立行使職權那依照我們的專業來做判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
8985.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
9008.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
好謝謝你這麼簡單的回應那我想對於這樣子的一個回應並不能夠很明確的回答到我個人想知道的一些相關內容因為我想依法行使大家都會說那您的專業判斷我想大家都會有所疑慮什麼樣的專業是符合您個人認為的專業還是民眾所期許的一個專業那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
9009.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
9037.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
今天外界大家對您的人事提名有兩種不同的一個輿論一種認為您長期研究傳播政策與媒體經濟有理論制度的一個背景那另外一種則擔心您過去在中天幻照事件中發表過比較明確的一個評論是否會影響到社會對NCC的公正性的一個信任我想用比較制度比較中立的一個角度請你說明幾個面向 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
9038.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
9054.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那關於角色的轉換您過去是學者可以自由的評論公共議題但成為NCC委員必須轉為決策者甚至可能是裁定他人我想請問一下您如何看待學者的言論自由跟公職中立的義務之間的一個界線 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
9057.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
9078.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
謝謝委員的提問那確實我在做傳播學者的時候是可以就如同我剛剛在回答其他委員的提問的時候提到的我的發文我的發言通常都是在這個有爭議的時候大家對於新聞自由是什麼這個概念不清楚的時候或是把新聞自由無限上綱的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
9079.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
9093.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
我認為這個是一個作為傳播學者就是要有義務幫大家釐清概念那個是當學者的時候可是如果我今天有這個機會能夠進到NCC來服務那我的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
9095.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
9115.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
個人的學者的工作就是去解說學理怎麼運用的工作其實是有很多的優秀的傳播學者也可以繼續去做的我會專注在我們的NCC自己的本身的業務上面而且我會非常強調的一點就是我會強調透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
9116.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
9144.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
就是我們現在之所以不信任NCC有一個很大的原因是因為NCC的決策還不夠透明大家不知道這些決定是怎麼來的它是經過一些諮詢會議然後經過NCC的七個委員的這個合議制而產生的所以將來我如果有幸可以有這個機會可以進入到NCC我會把握好這樣的一個分際 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
9145.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
9156.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
所以您覺得事實的公佈相關的一些諮詢會議透明化是您的希望能夠擔任以後該做的事嗎是的包括會議嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
9158.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
9178.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
當然喔那我想NCC過去常被批評過度的管制但也有人認為呢放任市場導致假訊息的氾濫那您認為NCC在定位應該在哪裡是保障言論自由的守門員還是促進媒體責任的平衡者能否說說你心中理想的NCC |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
9180.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
9208.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
NCC它應該是一個制定政策的也就是政策的一個設計者那它設計了這樣的政策之後那它能夠特別就是傳播政策那由於現在的整個的環境它跟以前廣電時代是不一樣的我們有很多的平台我們的這些傳播訊息是可以在不同的平台都有露出所以它涉及的這個面向實在是太廣了 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
9209.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
9228.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那NCC將來的這個工作應該是跟各個部會協力分工合作就比如說我們現在所做的這個打炸我們打炸就有國家隊內政部 教育部 金管會各司其職但是它就會要有一個這個主導的 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
9230.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
9256.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我認為在很多的面向上面很多的政策上面NCC都可以扮演一個主導的角色為什麼呢因為NCC它的業務裡頭有一個是加強台灣民眾的嗜讀的能力我們今天發生很多這樣的事情就是因為我們的民眾嗜讀的能力還不夠所以這個部分應該是NCC責無旁貸要做的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
9257.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
9272.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這幾天我們也一直在討論媒體嗜毒然後希望能夠提升青少年的媒體分辨力所以這也是本席非常關注的一個議題當中那我想這幾天我也一直在詢問各個被提名人想跟你詢問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
9273.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
9291.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
那我想不管是對於傳播教育或是政策的一個討論當中有人主張應該對這個平台強制揭露不管是演算法也好或者是內容的來源標示等相關的一個機制甚至是現在的AI有可能已經到達了 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
9292.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
9309.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
準備要氾濫的一個階段因為AI的一些影片還有AI的一些照片都有可能未經查證就加以使用那所以您能夠認同比如說像AI應該要標示是AI還是真人這個部分您怎麼回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
9311.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
9329.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
是的委員剛剛提出來都是非常新的趨勢而且是一個非常非常及時的也有立即的這個可能會造成一些風險的這個AI的這個使用的問題那確實就是在NCC的角度他會要求的就是希望媒體在 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
9330.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
9355.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
使用這些AI生成圖片的時候它能標示或者是說使用AI做出來的這些報導呢它最後的它的一關一定要人工審核一定要有人類的參與那這些就是NCC會做成相應的指引所以你認同又有一個審核機制甚至是應該標示清楚相關來源是的 應該要標示清楚好 謝謝您 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
9359.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
9383.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
謝謝羅廷維委員發言完畢現在請黃國昌委員黃國昌委員黃國昌委員不在現在請賴世保委員賴世保委員賴世保委員不在現在請陳昭之委員陳昭之委員陳昭之委員不在現在請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
9384.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
9411.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
現在請楊瓊英委員 楊瓊英委員 楊瓊英委員不在現在請王美惠委員 王美惠委員 王美惠委員不在現在請高金素美委員 高金素美委員 高金素美委員不在現在請羅明才委員 羅明才委員 羅明才委員不在現在請蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
9412.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
9431.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
現在請林柱英委員林柱英委員林柱英委員不在現在請郭鈺晴委員郭鈺晴委員郭鈺晴委員不在現在請吳佩奕委員吳佩奕委員吳佩奕委員不在現在請葉源之委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
9446.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
9449.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
主席好 麻煩請貝提名人請羅貝提名人貝提名人你好這個根據您過去的言論您個人的立場算是比較鮮明這件事情特別是在中天關台的事你曾經說過中天不能夠稱為有言論自由因為他們幫韓國瑜造勢誇張行徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
9476.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
9496.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
所以中天你說他是在行使第四權監督政府難以服眾而且您也提到中天的政論節目的主持人成了啦啦隊中天是購物台 宗教台所以您是認為說中天不能構成新聞自由我想跟您請教一下我不知道您是作為一個學者 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
9496.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
9518.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那在前一段大罷免期間你應該也有看到很多媒體啊他也變成大罷免的啦啦隊甚至於呢到被罷免人的選區跳罷免舞然後大家動員群眾在那邊喊罷免您認為同樣的標準這些新聞台他是新聞自由嗎他是不是購物台跟宗教台 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
9521.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
9547.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
謝謝委員的提問 委員講的這個現象其實不同的現象嘛 一個是造神的 就是只為特定的候選人造事 造神的 那另外一個就是在談的是一個普遍的社會運動或是政治運動所以你認為電視台成為政治運動的一部分 然後去煽動罷免 在你的標準你是覺得OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
9550.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
9558.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
你覺得新聞台不用做到客觀查證只要有立場只要他不是造神他去推廣政治立場這是OK的 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
9560.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
9584.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我刚刚的话应该没有办法导出这样的结论那请问一下那你就具体回答我的问题因为我们要看一下你的立场就是是不是有双重标准那你刚刚我听起来你是说如果特定造神的话不行但是如果搞罢免跑到一个地方去跳罢免舞说要去罢免这是OK的我在 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
9584.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
9604.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我覺得還有一個問題其實是要釐清的就是我們說為特定的候選人然後播出特別多的時間然後讓他有正面的報導那個又是在什麼又是在這個在這個選舉的妳就回答罷免選舉罷免是同一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
9606.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
9633.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
從一件事情你就回答我的問題就好我只問你覺得可不可以嘛你的標準是可不可以嘛但我們在討論就是我剛剛講的那個就是我剛剛講的案例你覺得可不可以我要說的是因為您看的是我寫的中天的那個文章嘛你不用管我看什麼您就講可不可以現在您是來被我們詢問不用一直閃避問題嘛我沒有閃避問題可不可以嘛因為你NC委員你到時候對媒體會有裁罰權啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
9635.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
9660.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那如果以你現在的標準你作為一個委員如果有媒體他有特定的立場跑去搞罷免類似這樣狀況假設你是委員的話然後他們一堆人不管來賓 主持人一起在跳罷免舞說要罷免特定的人你覺得按照你的假設有人檢舉你認為有沒有符合你的標準是不是變成購物台 宗教台其實所謂的新聞我現在要講的是NCC這個立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
9664.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
9680.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我們在問問題為什麼民進黨人都喜歡打岔啊主席可不可以管一下秩序不好意思主席好我們回到剛剛那個問題喔所謂的那個選舉的那個時候的問題或者說韓國瑜那個問題好了你一直閃避問題顯示你的心虛嘛我的問題那麼的明顯我都說你當時候標準是這樣我現在問你如果是你當委員那我剛舉的例子你同不同我那時候的標準是假新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
9692.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
9710.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
就是新聞的真實與否所以講到韓國瑜那個我再問你罷免你不用扯到韓國瑜好嗎我再問你罷免可不可以就是特定的電視台跑去搞罷免跳罷免舞說要去罷免特定的委員按照你這個NCC的委員如果你是委員你同不同意這樣的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
9711.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
9735.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這麼簡單的問題你答不出來還是因為你覺得我講的是特定某幾個電視台你不好意思講所以你就在閃避問題那你的標準你的標準就很明顯了嘛對不起沒關係我覺得這是無效的問答啦我覺得是無效的因為我的問題很明確我的問題很明確你一直在閃避那我請教你啦你那時候講說因為中天呢是你是引述金融時報的報導啦你認為中天的主編 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
9736.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
9756.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
是有直接聽命於國台辦對吧你文章是這樣寫的吧你引述金融時報報導對吧所以你覺得中天當時呢他們沒有新聞自由因為他們被國台辦影響嘛對吧這是你那時候文章的看法嘛是不是那你知不知道其實中天對於金融時報報導有去提告有抗議 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
9758.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
9783.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
那請問一下為什麼你的文章裡面沒有去做平衡呢沒有去引述說人家有抗議所以這個消息存而不論所以你有立場啊你立場就是你挑選對你的立場比較有相關的訊息來報導基本上新聞要求平衡你作為一個假設你做一個NCC委員你就沒有橫平的去了解所有的訊息啊那你知不知道上個星期因為周玉蔻說中天是紅媒 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
9783.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
9797.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
本來北院判周玉蔻要賠280萬上個禮拜高院還提高了罰金要判賠320萬只因為周玉蔻說中天是紅媒是中共傳聲筒 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
9799.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
9816.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
換句話說講中天紅媒的人都被法院判賠啦結果您作為一個學者在寫文章的時候你只有引述你認為攻擊中天是紅媒的文章對於人家澄清對於人家去提告置之未提你覺得這樣子有做到平衡嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
9818.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
9844.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
回答委員問題我那篇文章呢是一篇文章而不是一個報導而且我也不是委員所以從你的文章可以了解你的立場嘛因為你的立場是你要攻擊中天嘛所以對中天不利的消息你就在引述嘛我最主要的是在談新聞專業的問題新聞專業的底線是不能夠做假新聞假新聞作為一個學者也要客觀中立嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
9845.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
9864.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
學者寫文章也是有影響力的嘛學者寫文章透過媒體去發布也是有影響力的嘛但是呢你就偏頗的引述你要去攻擊對象的資料對於人家澄清資質未提去建構中天是紅媒的印象所以認為他們主張新聞自由是不可取的 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
9864.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
9878.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這就是你的邏輯啊那我們怎麼能夠相信他你作為NCC委員你作為NCC委員你會公平的這跟假新聞無關嘛我講的是你的新聞裡面講紅媒這件事情我有講到假新聞嗎我在講紅媒欸你為什麼老是問A答B有這麼心虛嗎我在講紅媒欸我有講到假新聞嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
9889.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
9905.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
但是我們剛剛最早的題目是在講新聞自由沒有 我沒有在跟你講假新聞做假新聞是不可能有新聞自由的那請問一下最後一個問題可是任何人都有立場我的立場就是堅持新聞自由那請教一下那你有立場你NCC為什麼叫獨立機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
9906.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
9919.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
NCC為什麼有這個機關是因為以前是新聞局在管媒體大家認為新聞局是政府一塊媒體有可能會被政府影響所以獨立出來變成一個獨立機關那如果進到這個機關裡面的每一個都有立場那這個機關要怎麼獨立 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
9921.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
9939.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
每個人都有立場但是在做NCC委員的時候必須中立這是我可以承諾的事情做NCC委員就必須要中立而你現在講的都是我做傳播學者的時候好 謝謝月圓之委員發言完畢現在請林育君委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
9952.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
9955.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
謝謝主席請羅貝提名人你好我聽了剛剛所有委員對你的詢問你覺得你的審查會通過嗎我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
9977.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
9991.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
妳覺得會通過嗎我覺得還是有可能好 我真的佩服妳今天站在這邊的勇氣好 被提名人當時妳認為中天新聞台在選舉期間為特定的候選人造勢的誇張行徑 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
9992.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
10010.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
及政論節目的主持人像特定陣營的啦啦隊整個台都是荒腔走板你甚至表示立場說目前台灣干涉新聞自由往往不是公權力而是媒體的經營者所以你認為當時中天新聞台在新聞內容的編採上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
10011.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
10029.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
毫不忌諱地站在特定的政治的立場所以我現在想要請教被提名人在台灣如果一個媒體只顧追求自身的利益甚至只為了媒體老闆的利益服務還能擁有憲法保障新聞的自由嗎你就簡單回答就好了是不是不行 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
10034.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
10051.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
因為我們還是回到那個個案的討論那這是不是等於是剛才我問你的是不是等於新聞自由的濫用是不是新聞自由的濫用是她的紅線就是假新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
10055.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
10074.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那所以我們剛剛討論的這一個case中天的問題就在於製造假新聞這是一個他最大的問題那其他呢他這個不被換照的理由當然還有內控機制啦自律機制的失靈啦還有他承諾該做的因為那已經是他的他之前是 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
10076.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
10099.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
是那個有條件通過他在前一次的換照是有條件通過所以他理當就要做得更好但是那些承諾他都沒有做到所以我覺得不是那麼單純的就是講要防止媒體老闆對新聞自由的干預是不是就必須要靠新聞的倫理和編輯自主的自律機制這樣你應該認同吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
10101.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
10121.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
是的 這也是NCC一直在著力的點它希望每一個新聞台它都要簽新聞自主公約好 那我再問一下就是說你曾經在綠媒平台上面網路上面有投書有說過你認為中天新聞台不是台灣唯一一家老闆干預新聞運作的媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
10122.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
10136.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
也有其他媒體老闆也將媒體影響力當作政治利益交換的籌碼那我想請問一下就是你認為台灣目前還有哪一家新聞台是因為政治喜好或是背後媒體老闆的影響而干預新聞台的運作呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
10140.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
10156.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我寫那篇文章的目的就是我也希望大家不是眼睛只看到中天因為我們希望大家有媒體適度的能力對 所以那像妳說不是台灣不是唯一不是唯一一家那妳覺得說還有哪幾家呢妳可以說明一下嗎背後都可能有那其實應該是不只一家就我所做的訪談裡頭就是不只一家 還有好幾家對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
10167.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
10192.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
因為我們在7.26和8.23的大罷免的期間其實我們有看到很多電視台都是還是表達特定的政治的立場支持和反對所以這個都毫不遮掩所以你覺得這些都是假的嗎還是有沒有公正立場播報新聞呢你是說關於大罷免的新聞嗎對 7.26和8.23的時候那時候的電視台他們是不是有沒有對一些特定的政治立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
10194.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
10218.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
在表達支持或反對其實在這個傳播學界的這個研究裡面呢我們普遍認為是電視台它在它本身在做這個新聞的這個時候是應該是據事實做報導這個真實這件事情是首要的那一個電視台能不能有立場呢其實我們看國外的非常多電視台他們也都是有立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
10219.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
10245.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
但是在有立場的情況之下他還是要必須根據事實來做報導所以是他可以有立場的事實的傳遞或有立場的真相的傳遞這個是被容許的那我再問最後一個問題就是現在民進黨執政的三立新聞台還有民視新聞台這些媒體在播放新聞和政論節目有自律嗎都有符合新聞專業與倫理嗎你的看法是怎樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
10247.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
10261.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
有沒有自律呢其實他是一個需要需要一個檢驗的一個程序就是如果他們在他們的這個自律委員會裡頭有人申訴他們不夠專業或怎麼樣然後在他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
10263.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
10278.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
這個自律委員會經過處理之後因為我只想要知道你的看法因為你是進電視新聞台的新聞自律倫理的委員會的主委嘛你曾經當過嘛所以我是想說你針對這件事情你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
10279.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
10297.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
是他們有自律嗎對 我認為整體來說我們的整個新聞環境的自律都要加強那當然還有一個原因就是因為其實他很需要專業的像我們這樣的傳播學者我們進去這個自律委員會是個外部的機構等於是一個連結公民團體跟電視台之間的一個機構 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
10301.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
10322.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那我們如果呢不會像今天我進入這個淨電視輪委會當主委就被貼標籤的話我相信有更多更多的公民社會的或是公民團體或者是或者是這個傳播學者或其他領域的學者都會願意來加入這個自律機制會讓我們的台灣的自律的機制做得更好OK 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
10325.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
10353.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
好 謝謝林益君委員發言完畢現在請邱若驊委員邱若驊委員邱若驊委員不在現在請廖先祥委員廖先祥委員廖先祥委員不在被提名人羅惠文女士之說明與答詢結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
10355.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
10365.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
羅惠文女士可先行離席 謝謝好 我們現在先休息十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
11441.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
11460.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
好 继续开会本次会议登记询问四位被提名人的本院委员军旅发言完毕做以下决定一 说明集答询完毕二 委员蔡吉昌 尤浩 鲁明哲 邱若华 陈秀宝 何先纯本日所提书面咨询 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
11461.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
11489.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
及20日委員所提書面諮詢均列入記錄並刊登公報三 委員於詢問中要求提供相關書面資料及未及答覆部分請行政院及相關機關盡速以書面答覆宣告本案四位被提名人同意案聯席會之審查結果均審查完畢提報院會公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
11491.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
11491.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
本次會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
11493.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
11520.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
針對四位被提名人相關事項之審查均與審查完略做以下決議一 行政院函送國家通訊重播委員會委員提名名單蔣榮鮮為委員並為主任委員陳明修為委員並為副主任委員黃薇薇及羅惠文均為委員請同意案四位被提名人之同意案均審查完略擬據審查報告提報院會公決 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
11523.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
11530.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
2.院會討論時由交通委員會李昭及委員坤澤做補充說明3. |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
11530.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
11546.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
本院各黨團隊被提名人之資格及事任性所提書面問題及行政院函附就被提名人提出之相關資料均列入紀錄刊登公報4. |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
11546.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
11551.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
本次聯席會議議事錄授權由主席核定後確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
11552.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
11564.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
针对以上决议 请问各位委员有没有意见没有意见 好 决议通过 本次会议结束 散会 |