| IVOD_ID |
16975 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16975 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-35-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
35 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
外交及國防委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T08:34:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T11:57:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:22:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/7a505bc1fba11f2d8a46bec1ad1976d3466a0d6e3e2134b00aa126c40303dc278d09443c5f6670775ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告「近期台美關係及關稅談判進展」，併請行政院經貿談判辦公室、經濟部、農業部列席，並備質詢。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:34:30 - 11:57:00 |
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報告委員會初期委員6人已足法定人數我們現在開始開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第6次全體委員會議議事錄 |
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時間 中華民國114年10月20日 星期一上午9時至11時32分地點 紅樓301會議室 出席委員陳永康等9人 列席委員洪孟凱等8人請教委員王定宇 沈博洋 列席人員國防部部長顧立雄及所屬人員台灣國際造船股份有限公司董事長陳振宏 主席馬昭吉委員文君報告實行 以宣讀上次會議思路決定確定 |
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二 邀請國防部部長顧立雄報告潛艦國造原型艦海撤執行現況及因應作為並請台灣國際造船股份有限公司董事長列席並被質詢國防部部長顧立雄海軍造船發展中心主任顧志忠報告 |
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委員羅美玲等11人質詢軍有國防部部長顧立雄副參謀總長執行官黃志偉常務次長楊基榮政務辦公室主任孫立芳海軍司令部參謀長邱俊榮空軍司令部參謀長李慶然海軍造船發展中心主任顧志忠國家中山科學研究院院長李士強及台灣國際造船股份有限公司董事長陳正宏等即席答覆 |
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我們請議事人員宣讀報告事項 |
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1731.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
報告事項邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告近期台美關係及關稅談判進展並請行政院經貿談判辦公室經濟部農業部列席並備質詢宣讀完畢我們現在先介紹在場委員以及與會的官員首先介紹陳永康陳委員以及我們外交部林佳龍林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1750.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1774.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
亞東太平洋司林昭宏林司長亞西及非洲司陳永博副司長歐洲司李秀堯副秘書長拉丁美洲及加勒比海司鄭麗成鄭司長北美司王良玉王司長條約法律司許伯義許副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1777.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1801.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
國際組織司 張佩薩 張副司長國際合作及經濟事務司 連玉平 連司長國際傳播司 張秀珍 張司長研究設計會 柯良瑞 柯主任秘書處 陳景林 陳處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1804.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1812.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
人事處呂士一呂處長主計處李佩華李處長資訊及電務處羅倩為羅副處長公眾外交協調會蕭光偉蕭執行長台日關係協會張仁久張秘書長領事事務局鄭仁勇鄭局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1831.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1836.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
行政院經貿談判辦公室執行秘書徐崇清 徐志密經濟部何進昌 何正次國際貿務署黃敬軒 黃主任秘書產業發展署陳佩麗 陳副署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1858.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1887.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
中小及新創企業署財務發展組王志文王副組長投資審議司張如誠張專門委員農業部的部分有林佳榮林主任秘書國際事務司溫祖康溫副司長綜合規劃司韓寶珠韓副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1889.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1907.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
畜牧師 陳俊隆 陳紀正農糧署 陳立儀 陳主任秘書漁業署 林鼎榮 林副署長動植物防疫檢疫署 翁一芝 翁組長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1916.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1925.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本日會議邀請外交部部長林佳龍報告近期台美關係及關稅談判進展並被質詢現在請林部長上台報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1934.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1950.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生大家早安承蒙貴委員會邀請外交部前來就近期台美關係及關稅談判進展進行專題報告並被質詢以下請提出本部說明敬請各位不吝指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1951.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1971.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那麼首先是當前的國際政經情勢變化迅速全球貿易與區域安全形勢越去複雜那麼美國川普政府上任之後秉持著讓美國更安全更強大更繁榮的核心目標推動美國優先政策並積極展開與各國的關稅談判與供應鏈重整 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1975.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1998.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
推進再工業化與印太戰略的佈局重塑全球經貿與安全秩序而鑒於台美與安全經濟與科技領域的利益高度契合且維護區域的和平與穩定持續是台美重要的共同利益與優先目標本部相關工作之規劃著重於透過與美方政策對齊 對接 對應 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2001.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2020.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
以積極掌握戰略的契機深化台美互利共榮的合作夥伴關係尤其雙方在經貿 人工智慧 半導體製造高科技產業以及關鍵礦物等領域的合作還有共同打造非紅供應鏈均展現高度發展的潛能 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2020.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2046.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那麼在過去一年多來外交部秉持賴總統的指導方針積極推動價值外交理念以及經濟日不落國的願景與各部會協同推進台美雙邊及多邊議題展現台灣作為國際社會可靠可信賴而且是不可或缺的夥伴角色那麼以及深化台美互利雙贏的夥伴關係以下請就近期台美關係的重要發展及經貿與關稅談判進展向貴委員會報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2050.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2053.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那麼在美國行政部門具體的對台的一個台海的一個和平穩定的支持那麼方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2066.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2092.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
首先川普新政府上任之後多次在各類的國際跟多邊場合明確重申對台的支持那麼近期包括連續第三次在美日韓三國的外長聯合聲明以及九月聯大期間的七大工業國集團G7外長聯合聲明中都強調維持台海和平穩定的重要性並反對任何片面以武力改變現況的企圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2094.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2119.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
而美國國務卿Rubio以及戰爭部長Haggisett等高層官員也多次的公開重申此一立場那麼在針對賴總統先前宣布台灣國防支出將在明年達到GDP的3.32%並渴望在2030年達到5%那以國境演說中呢總統也再次宣示台灣持續增加支出以強化國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2120.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2136.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
美國國務院亦表達高度的支持與肯定強調美方首要任務是維護台海的和平與穩定將持續致力於遵守《台灣關係法》以確保台灣擁有與所面臨的威脅相稱的充分自衛的能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2137.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2156.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
再來美方並持續聯合各國以軍艦通過台海其具體行動展現對自由航行原則的支持防止中國將台海內海化的企圖也充分體現美方維護印太安全與區域穩定的決心在近期台美經貿關係與產業合作方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2159.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2173.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
首先美國再工業化是川普重要的政策而除了半導體製造人工智慧也是一個重點的產業美國政府在今年7月推出了人工智慧行動方案就是AI action plan |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2173.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2198.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那旨在維持美國在全球AI競賽中能夠大幅領先而基於台灣在硬體優勢以及台美高科技互補關係本部亦與相關的部會合作評估與美方在AI領域的潛在合作點其與美國強大軟體生態系結合透過軟加硬的模式深化合作也有助於我國廠商的國際布局 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2199.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2216.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
那麼另外在中國最近宣布的稀土出口管制危及到全世界科技及經濟發展美國已表示將與歐洲盟友澳洲 加拿大 印度以及其他亞洲民主國家合作集體來回應中國的稀土出口管制措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2217.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2245.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
外交部歡迎美方加強與歐亞等民主夥伴合作共同建立稀土以及關鍵礦物供應鏈我們也在研議在台美經濟繁榮夥伴對話就是EPPD的這個既有機制下就相關議題進行交流及合作共同來打造全球關鍵礦物飛鴻供應鏈這不僅有助於強化台灣半導體產業的韌性也有利於推進台灣投資美國隊 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2246.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2270.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
也就是打造台美聯合艦隊以強化我國在台美合作的戰略角色那麼特別是在最近台美的這個投資還有貿易方面那麼今年的農產品貿易訪問美國的友好訪問團在本年9月中旬訪問美國法股跟相關的農業州而這個是自1998年以來第15次籌組農訪團赴美 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2274.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2301.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
展現台美友好的農業貿易關係以及台灣市場對美國農產品的重要性我國相關產業工協會在美期間與美國相關協會簽署採購意向書而是指中國大幅減少採購美國農產品之際實際上傳遞了台灣系美國重要農業貿易以及糧食安全夥伴的正面訊息深受川普政府的重視那麼同時呢美國的農業部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2304.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2318.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這個Brooke Rawlings也親自貼文肯定我農訪團到訪以及台美農業貿易關係而我國政府在農訪團結束訪美行程之後美國的農業部主管貿易以及對外農業事務次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2321.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2345.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
Luke Lindbergh也在同月的30號率領產業團來訪台就台美在農業創新科技及糧食安全任性的合作交換意見那麼Lindbergh次長亦在訪台期間宣布美國將開放台灣鳳梨進入美國市場彰顯台美在農業領域的合作時機更上一層樓 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2346.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2359.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
那麼在美方堅持支持我國參與國際組織及活動還有反制中國的法律戰方面那麼川普政府持續率同理念相近的國家支持我國有意義的參與國際組織並明確反駁中國對法 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2364.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2379.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
對台的法律戰的舉措如公開指出中方誤用聯大第2758號決議阻礙台灣在聯合國體系之參與而本年4月美方首度於聯合國安理會會議嚴正批評中國誤用聯大第2758號決議重申該決議並未排除台灣參與聯合國體系以及多邊的論壇而美國運輸部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2389.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2404.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
並以連續兩屆在國際民航組織大會明確發言支持台灣參加ACAO那麼美國駐團的代辦也首度在本屆大會指出中方扭曲聯大2758號決議重申該決議並未排除台灣參與如ACAO等技術及專門的機構持續以具體的行動表達對我的堅定支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2413.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2438.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
此外 美國在台協會在9月12日公開表示中國刻意曲解二戰時期的文件企圖藉以支持中國脅迫台灣的行徑直指北京的論述完全是虛假不實的是意圖將台灣孤立於國際社會之外並限制其他國家與台灣互動的主權選擇而這些都是更廣泛行動 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2441.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2455.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
中間的一環在美國國會方面也展現對台灣及台美關係強勁的跨黨派支持美國國會持續透過立法作為展現對台灣及強化台美安全合作的堅定支持美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2456.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2479.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
國會本年1月開議期間聯邦參眾兩院已提出近60項與台灣相關的法案以及有我的決議案而其中呢 繼美國聯邦眾議院在9月通過了2026會計年度的國防授權法案那麼之後呢 聯邦參議院也在10月9日通過了參院版的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2479.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2502.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
NDAA兩院通過的版本均納入多項協助強化台灣防衛能力與韌性的有我條文展現美國國會跨黨派持續透過立法作為堅定支持與台灣強化安全合作那麼此外跨黨派重量級的聯邦參眾議員也接連訪台本年除了參眾外交委員會亞太小組 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2504.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2522.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
瑞克茲、聯邦參議員Darkworth、達克沃斯等參議員之外軍事委員會主席維克還有訪問團更是近十年來首度訪台的參院軍事委員會主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2523.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2531.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
那麼在台美雙邊持續強化安全的合作也共同實踐以實力維繫和平那麼更加顯得這個台美關係的一個進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2535.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2554.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
而本年包括眾議院天然資源委員會主席、魏德曼聯邦眾議院國會台灣連線共同主席貝拉等多位重要的聯邦眾議院訪台,都充分展現美國國會兩院跨黨派對台堅定的支持的一個政治共識。 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2555.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2571.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
那麼最後在台美關稅談判進展方面行政院鄭麗君副院長經貿談判辦公室楊真理總談判代表率領的我方談判團隊在美東時間9月底與華府與美國貿易代表署以及商務部就對等關稅等經貿議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2573.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2598.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
進行了第五輪實體的磋商而我方秉持國家利益以及產業利益持續與美方磋商總統亦公開表示美方所公布之稅率僅為暫時性措施執政團隊必將再接再厲持續爭取合理的稅率那麼待雙方就對等關稅232條款相關優惠待遇及供應鏈合作呢達成完整的共識之後便會進入總結會議來達成台美的貿易協定 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2603.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2614.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
那麼最後外交部在總統及行政院的指導之下將持續與美方及理念相近國家協力推動合作積極參與供應鏈重組與經貿安全的議題以強化台灣的戰略角色與合作價值並持續鞏固我國在區域與全球體系中的關鍵地位 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2624.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2635.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
以及與區域夥伴共同促進印太區域及台海的和平穩定與繁榮以上的報告謝謝主席還有各位委員那麼敬請大院不吝指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2644.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2655.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我們現在補充介紹羅美玲委員陳俊宇委員請問在場委員對於上次會議議事錄有遺漏錯誤或需要更正之處沒有 那議事錄確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2666.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2681.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我們現在開始詢答本會委員8加2分鐘非本會委員5分鐘10點30分發言登記截止如有臨時提案請於10點30分之前提出11點左右處理現在請陳永康委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2696.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2724.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
主席有請外交部林部長林部長部長早安委員長剛才聽取了您的報告當然我們很肯定外交部在這個廣泛的領域不只是經貿甚至是國際安全和平的問題上所做的努力剛才在您的報告的第二頁我提出一點建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2725.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2748.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
就是阔湖三岚美方并联合各国以军舰通过台海之实际行动展现对自由航行的原则支持防止中国将台海内海化的企图充分展现美方维护印太安全战略区域稳定的决心这里面我也请条法司司长您方便的话 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2754.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2778.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
因为这个里面有涉及到联合国海洋法公约1982年的unclass那么菲律宾输入海对菲律宾来讲它是群岛水域没有国家接受它是内海那么如果台海现阶段还不是内海实际上是公海根本不可能变内海 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2779.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2790.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那美國其他的國家通過台海它是Freedom of Navigation就是FON那如果像在南海 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2791.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2810.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
人工岛礁中国说这个是我是岛他画了经济海画了领海基线这个时候美国不接受他宣布这个是你的自然的岛屿所以你没有领海于是他派专军舰穿过中共所画的领海线 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2811.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2835.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那叫Freedom of Navigation Operation那这是政策但是军舰去执行任务的时候就叫做Found Ops Operations所以这个建议外交部把这个做一个区分好 好吧好 谢谢那后面的几个问题我也要请这个经贸办公室的执行秘书一起谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2838.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2844.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
部長您好您看這個圖前一次已經用過一次但是我們在持續在修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2845.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2869.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
因为我们做的分析是关税谈判代表它是全班的高阶的策略逻辑分析最主要是川普讲了关税问题不只是经济问题是美国的国安问题但一旦讲到国安问题它就涉及到地缘政治地缘经济地缘战略所以它不是存在经济谈判过程中间只focus在经济关税问题了是 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2869.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2896.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
他的目的呢他强调美国优先不能赚美国的钱您在这个报告里都提过可是川普总统他非常聪明他在展现个人卓越第二个不可预测第二个他主导所有政策的发展所以我们从美国的本质目的方法到手段那这个手段的过程中间刚才经贸谈判您也提过了我们已经参加过五轮十次线上会议 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2897.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2923.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
在這個過程中間你看過他的財長是扮演白臉他的商務部長是黑臉那USTR的這個代表他是法律專家他左右調節那這次這個五個輪迴回來了以後現在跟中國要談的就是稀土關稅百分百結果美方其實內部他有一個分析就是在左下角這個第一個你在這個談判過程中間你的底線 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2924.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2952.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
你能不能承担affordability第二个就是说美国的人民跟国际对你的信任度有多少第三个你有没有一个调节的空间第四个达成率有多少对应的是什么第一个我先把你国际情势各种国际组织先拆开来第二个拆除隐性第三个去风险第四个实在不行就脱钩在这个metrics里面他选出的结果就这一次美国财政部长来扮黑脸了 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2953.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2967.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
他说美中可脱钩可锻炼但是留了一个弹数双方领导可再谈于是川普总统就讲了我跟习近平总统是好朋友我们在APEC会面 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2968.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2992.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
大概要谈希土芬太尼大豆还有台湾的问题所以你看到它是一个loop里面重复的滚动修正而且我们不要把这个问题把它绑死也就是说我们有一个完整的对应方案这个方案怎么来参考因为它永远是黑脸白脸左右换脸然后上面施压最后回路重新调整我对你示好请看下一张 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2995.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3023.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
这张图表就是显示中美经贸谈判这个我们做一个参考它的策略分析战略策略分析第一个优势部分经济基础科技实力谈判工具国际影响力美方跟中方各有优势最后它有结构性的差异那劣势部分就是内部的约制经济的弱度执行的成本战略的困境同样结构性的差异 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3024.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3048.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
那最后我们就到美中谈判双方内部调整的空间政策的灵活度创新的路径合作的领域谈判的策略最后做结构性的差异我提这个东西主要是一个方法论提供您那边内部做参考是就是说在国际谈判过程中间我们是报的对友好人 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3049.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3072.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
就是说非常诚恳坦率地谈但是我是建议里面有些tolerance您要留在你的谈判底线因为它不是单独的经济问题它前面已经讲了它把国安就是说地缘政治地缘经济地缘战略的问题全部纠结在一起因此这个对我们经贸谈判代表如果是纯粹从关税经贸 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3073.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3092.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
你看到他跟中共玩的两手策略对国际的情势他永远他保持他有调节的空间那也就是在这种情况下我们要有自己的一个tolerance底线口袋绝对不要一厢情愿对他丝毫通通掏出来了要有一个回路调整的空间 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3092.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3109.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
以上的这几个方法论我们下去后提供这个部里面同仁做参考另外也有机会我们互相探讨在国际谈判过程中间不要只是focus在经济问题因为他把国安的问题卷进来了以后他通常会拿国际情势的变动 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3111.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3130.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
来反映到它要做改变策略的一个论述基础所以错永远不在它是国际情势可变但是可变不可预测如果我们没有一个结构的分析方法论有的时候会吃亏提请部长做参考看看部长你有什么指导 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3131.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3144.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我覺得委員確實我們也應徵您的方法論這個關稅談判絕對不是單稅一般貿易的問題是以從國安角度那必須要有一個架構那這樣一個分析也證明從對等關稅還有232條款 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3148.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3163.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
還有所謂的人工智慧行動發展甚至到最近的稀土有關於供應鏈的重組那美國的政策目標除了現在當然是要透過關稅來減低他的財政的負擔還有可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3165.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3175.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
但是呢可能其他的政策目標就是剛剛委員提到的在其他的戰略層次其實我們也要去對應它那這個也就是說這不是零和這是好幾個層次的這個交疊那我們的政策目標在哪裡什麼樣創造美國這個是優先台灣也優先那就是說讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3188.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3197.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
台美可以有互利雙贏的空間這個就是我們我想站在國安戰略的角度就不同於只是一個純粹的關稅貿易的談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3201.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3228.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
現在提醒調法師也特別要花點功夫協助有關所謂的經濟海域 領海 內水有關聯合國海洋法公約Unclosed裡面的定義在國際法裡面我們怎麼樣掌握論述的道理而不是被帶動的由接受這些對方提出的條件以上提出參考謝謝部長 我們大家共同努力我們會好好的運用 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3235.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3243.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
謝謝我們接下來請羅美玲委員上台不好意思接下來請陳俊宇委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3256.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3264.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
好謝謝召委我們有請林佳龍部長及徐崇清執行秘書有請部長還有執秘部長早 執秘早 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3272.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3285.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
部長我們上週在諮詢的過程裡面也曾經請教過部長在月底即將召開的APEC領袖會議是否會安排與美方或其他國家進行雙邊會談 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3287.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3311.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
那當時部長您也回應都在規劃安排當中那我想今天再接續這個議題這幾天我們外電報導韓國跟美國之間的這個關稅談判已經取得了一個實質性的一個進展那並且有可能在月底的這個峰會上來達成協議我想我先請教執密就是針對這個部分我們對於美韓之間的這個關稅談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3313.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3325.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
可能先行達成的協議我們是否有掌握到包括這個韓國跟美國投資的相關方案還有協議的關稅稅率的相關的內容 有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3327.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3340.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
報告委員我們對於這個相關的報導我們都有所掌握韓國跟美國的情況其實他們在七月底就有達成的協議他們現在是就這個細節的部分再做進一步的確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3343.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3372.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
已經我們都有掌握了內容都掌握了那對於台灣來說談判所涉及的這個項目可能更加的複雜當然也看到這一次作為我們談判代表的這個楊真理政委將出席這個峰會的雙部長會議那我們也期待在這一次參與APEC會議上除了能夠促進雙邊和多邊的經貿合作也能夠對於我們關稅談判上有所幫助 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3373.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3392.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
總統在昨天接受訪問的時候也提到我們跟美國的談判並不涉及到匯率並且在近日應該會有好的進展我想請教部長我們在這次APEC會議前有沒有機會再安排與美方實體磋商或是有可能什麼樣的實質進展 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3394.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3408.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
那另外 除了總統交付的這個代表團三大任務以外台灣在這次的這個峰會上是否有預期能夠達到什麼樣的一個目標為國家爭取最大的利益是我們殖民先請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3410.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3422.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
報告委員APEC在韓國召開因為它的主題其中一個是跟人工智慧另外一個就是跟少子化人口結構的變化這兩大議題我們對應的都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3427.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3440.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
針對這個有倡議甚至我們除了APEC之外我們也有所謂的企業代表就企業諮詢委員會那也都有提出這些倡議甚至我們也有一些成立基金來針對我們台灣對於像用這個智慧醫療跟數位科技去解決這個健康照護的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3450.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3470.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
所以我們是可以積極的倡議另外呢在這一個雙邊的會議在雙邊的會談上我們當然會很多場邊的會議都有在交涉中有一些理念相近的國家那因為有一些是屬於大會那當然涉及到每個國家派的代表領袖代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3471.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3481.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
那麼在這個場邊當然美方如果有跟有關於關稅談判有關的應該也會自然的有接觸 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3482.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3502.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那麼至於說我們這次是更主動的針對AI的方面因為台灣也有一個AI新十大建設的一個方案那我們又是半導體的大國所以這個部分各國都很有興趣跟我們談所以這一次呢所謂雙部長會議啊除了楊貞妮政委她主導這個行政院經貿談判辦公室的總談判代表以外我們也是有這個安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3508.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3519.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
國科會的主委 吳承文主委因為他是AI方面的專家這方面我想應該配合林新義這個領袖代表整個在APEC上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3524.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3530.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
我們除了倡議 除了一些雙邊的場邊會談我們也會針對這個跟台灣大家有關心的半導體跟AI怎麼去打造民主供應鏈特別是最近稀土的議題我想這次APEC會被廣泛交換意見甚至促成進一步合作的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3547.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3570.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好 那另外這個川普總統在日前接受訪問的時候他有提到說他月底這個會有一個川習會的可能那會討論到台灣的議題那更表示自己在明年的這個年初會去訪問中國那我想再請教部長就是在美中貿易戰升溫的這個情況之下我們有沒有掌握到川習會針對台灣這個議題可能會討論的相關內容走向會是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3575.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3585.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
因為我想真的公開的資訊那川普總統本身有表達他並沒有要去談嘛當然對方他認為這個習近平應該是很重視這個台灣的議題不過我想這個場合我們也了解他重點不在於處理這個兩岸的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3595.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3598.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
但是我們跟美方都保持密切的溝通他們也都有不斷地在強調對台的堅定的支持他們跟中國之間的互動不會去傷害到台灣事實上我們雙方面也都保持密切的溝通聯繫可是因為這個整個APEC和川習會與否都還在發展中 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3619.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3649.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
沒有到最後一刻其實我們誰都還不能夠講最後的方案最後的一個可能出現的方式是什麼我們密切觀察好 那接續談到這個台美之間的相關合作從我們對等關稅實施之後那部長也多次提到要加速實現這個台美聯合艦隊擴大促進台美雙向的這個投資而以台灣模式共同來打造產業聚落的一個構想 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3650.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3668.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
也納入關稅談判的討論議題當中我想再接續請教部長不論是針對台灣模式或是台美聯合艦隊的這個願景我們和美方有沒有進一步聚焦合作的一個規劃如何能夠確保我們的國家利益不受損 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3669.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3679.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
跟委員報告其實台美關係是很多層次而且是可以說是很緊密所以有些人在談到說因為現在涉及到對等關係的談判那我們怎麼樣對台灣不是是被動甚至我們主動去推動對台灣有利的台美關係這也就是為什麼我今年五月率團去訪問德州促成所謂的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3694.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3703.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這個台灣Tower的計畫那也是跟後來所謂台灣模式裡面在談到所謂類科學園區那當然這個其實是我們的一個整個對供應鏈的一個重整我們的一個擴展那我想美國當然是一個很競爭的社會不過也充滿了挑戰還有機會所以我覺得這個除了產業的投資還有這個包括整個供應鏈的重組 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3722.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3738.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
那怎麼樣建立更好的美台的關係所以在亞利桑那州就是以台積電為主的半導體投資在德州也有環球晶這兩個半導體投資的重鎮再加上AI現在各個大廠都去了所以怎麼樣能夠整合出一個對台灣最有利的一個經驗輸出而且壯大台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3743.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3748.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
在布局美國的過程當中所以這是打造台美聯合艦隊那所謂的台灣Tower就提供一站式的服務那因為各個大的一個產業他們這些的投資他們可能有自己的工業區所以我們要把它整合起來能夠跟美方談包括像土地 水電 法令還有涉及到的非常多投資的優惠 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3766.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3769.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
甚至回來幫助台灣在關稅的談判還有半導體這些所謂的投資上面是對我們有利的所以我想這個是台灣Tower放在這裡面在德州我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3781.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3799.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
民間的敏感度是最高的所以包括直航所以最近除了台灣跟Houston之外也跟Dallas有了這個直航我想這個都是可以看到說民間企業界他們的一個投資佈局那我們怎麼去打造所謂的聯合艦隊就是能夠政府跟民間能夠公私協力扮演一個能夠把台灣的經驗輸出以外能夠善用美國包括他們的科技資金跟人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3812.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3822.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我接續要請教的剛剛部長您已經大概講得非常清楚了我們這個台美雙方的這個產業聚落地點應該確定就是在德州了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3823.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3852.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
應該說民間已經都去投資我們政府的角色如果也能夠加入可以發揮更大的中效比如說我想從資本市場都可以看到以AI Server為主要打造AI資料中心這個是AI計算非常重要所以不只是說像Stargate還有像NVIDIA他們都有超過5000億以上的投資而這些硬體的設備或未來有一些系統整合跟一些方面的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3854.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3869.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
就是合資我想台灣都可以扮演一些角色那我們台灣套這個計畫已經都就行政院有召開過跨部會的協調因為這剛好啊我們中油在這邊有地如果不用也會被收回去 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3869.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3871.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以我們希望把這個土地轉嫁成一個類似我們這種一站式服務然後能夠美台雙方都進駐然後跟我們的企業包括金融 人才的育成還有這些其他的服務能夠在這個地方這個就是所謂打造我們講的台灣Tower當然希望它的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3894.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3916.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
建物 未來的投資來自於政府還有企業各方面能夠成為我們的一個地標好 那不論是關稅談判還是這個經貿合作那我們也請我們的這個談判的團隊和我們外交部務必以維護我們國家的利益為優先那如果能夠掌握新的資訊也能夠盡快的讓我們國人能夠了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3917.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3938.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我跟委員再補充一下在這邊所謂台灣套不只是我們台灣投資美國隊也是美國投資台灣隊所以美國想要投資台灣透過這個窗口我們可以提供它一站式的服務也提供我們台灣已經在美國要投資的人我們政府G2G跟美國應該做些什麼事來招商而這招商是雙向的是所謂聯合艦隊就是台灣投資美國隊也有美國投資台灣隊謝謝好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3948.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3951.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
接下來請羅美玲委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請我們林部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3969.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3976.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
美好部長早安部長今天我們要講到的是台美關係那川普剛上任的時候其實有很多的國人對於川普政府跟台灣之間的關係會產生變化會不會漸行漸遠這件事情呢其實產生了很多的擔憂跟疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3985.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4007.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
可是我们可以从美方现在持续的坚定的支持我国有意义的参与国际的组织还有部长刚刚你有提到就是今年4月的时候其实美国首次在联合国安理会严正的批评就是中方误用联大第2758号的决议美国今年1月份到现在其实联邦参众两院也都提出了 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4013.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4033.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
將近60項跟台灣相關的法案跟郵務的捷運所以說就像我們看到中國持續操作法律戰跟歷史戰要來藉由扭曲甚至二戰文件來主張台灣的主權我們看到美國在台協會AIT在今年9月很罕見的指出說 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4034.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4045.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
中國試圖扭曲開羅宣言跟波茲坦公告跟舊金山合約等等的歷史文件強調這些二戰的相關文件未決定台灣的最終政治地位然後這些也獲得美國國務院的背書我有看到一些學者指出說這一次美方救台灣地位的問題是由模糊轉向清晰我想請問部長因為部長之前也曾經做過一些回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4062.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4085.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
你那時候有提到就是說其實像開洛宣言也好波茲坦這個公告其實它其實就是一個新聞公告其實也不是條約就算是後來你很強硬的回應說像舊西山合約其實它只是聲明日本必須放棄台灣澎湖的所有的權利其實並沒有很明確的告知台灣的主權的歸屬所以台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4091.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4117.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
政治地位未定論就是從這樣子論述來的我想請問部長就是說從過去我們看到說美國對台灣其實一直都是採很模糊的定位說可是到現在很明確了已經很明說覺得台灣就是一個未定位它的政治地位未定位我想問請教部長像美國這種態度的改變它最大的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4118.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4120.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
是因為中國已經在改變現狀而且透過法律戰為他武力犯台鋪設基礎那從聯合國2758號決議為什麼這個美國國務院在去年就有四點很清楚的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4138.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4145.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
就是然後包括各國的議會還有包括歐洲議會有陸續通過所謂2758號決議不涉及台灣因為這150個字裡面都沒有談到台灣那可是中共卻不斷的就是想要這個有一點就是做法律戰的操弄在 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4160.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4185.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
最近又因為所謂的三個八十年也就是1945年不管是二戰結束或是抗戰勝利還有包括所謂的關乎台灣成立聯合國這些組織等而中共發動了一波的法律戰在法理上企圖把台灣是中國的一部分尤其是中華人民共和國的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4186.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4215.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
這個變成在一個認知作戰的一部分所以這個時候我想理念相近的國家都必須要來澄清所以這個是為了捍衛現狀那麼因此呢 中共企圖因為中華人民共和國是成立在1949年嘛可是他怎麼去解釋1945年所謂的這一個三個八十年的歷史事件所以美國我想我們看到的是他們已經不止一次那麼AIT也好 國務院也好去釐清 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4216.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4243.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
對於所謂開羅宣言 波茨坦公告到舊青山合約這個不涉及中共講的台灣是中國的一部分或所謂的一中原則但是站在台灣的角度來講當然台灣我們是一個民主的國家我們有民選的政府 我們有三次政黨輪替我們在國際上有辦法行使主權能力所以當然基於聯合國宣言或憲章的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4243.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4250.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
還有基於這個國民主權的原則我們當然沒有說什麼台灣TVA聽了我們當然認為台灣實際上就是我們台灣人民經過民主的實踐已經不斷地肯認那國際上也是認為台灣人民的一個這個不管是民主的一個意志或是 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4266.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4292.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我們一些主權的行為是應該要有參加國際組織包括聯合國跟周邊組織的機會跟權力所以部長您對於這個AIT說這些文件為決定台灣的最終政治地位這部分其實您認為說其實台灣本來在國際上就有自己的所謂的政治地位其實我們就是一個主權獨立的國家所以您對於這個AIT的說法是有一些不同的想法嗎是這樣子的意思嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4293.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4302.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
應該說對於這個歷史的一個歷史本身的說明這個是針對這三個文件已經當時我想美國並沒有針對後面也就是台灣民主化之後或現在國際對於台灣中華民國我們在國際上的一個國家的地位所以這個有些人當然只因為美國實在有一點是回應啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4320.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4334.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
中國對於歷史的扭曲而且是法律戰的一部分所以你可以看到就是不斷的記者去詢問的時候美方的一個回應還是都很一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4335.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4354.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
這是在講歷史 歷史為什麼重要因為它會變成中共的所謂一中原則從這裡跑出來而這個會鋪設它無力犯台的法理基礎所以全世界各國現在才意識到這個中共的法律戰它其實是一個所謂的連環套 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4355.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4380.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
其實他在20年前所謂反分裂法的時候就啟動了所謂三戰法律戰 輿論戰跟心理戰而這個就是我們現在講的包括認知作戰 混合戰其中就是整套 現在又加上數位科技還有中共在國際上的勢力越來越強所以他不斷地在一些共同聲明不斷地在去做事 想要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4384.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4406.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
落實他所謂的一中原則那還有我們也發現其實美國真的是近來常常在打台灣牌就像剛剛我們陳靜宇委員他有提到像這次川普他就有跟媒體透露就是說在這個月底他在南韓舉行的經濟會議期間他會跟習近平見面就會特別提到會討論到台灣的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4409.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4429.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
又把台灣跟媒體透露說我們會談到這個議題那其實陳永康委員今天也講得很清楚就是說其實他是一個經濟會議 經貿會議那可是他特別會強調說我會提到台灣的議題所以會不會是其實川普其實也很清楚在這個印太地區覺得台灣應該是一個關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4431.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4435.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
在美中這個競爭當中台灣絕對是一個關鍵所以他在談判經貿的這個期間頻頻把台灣給提出來所以這會不會是說台灣是被迫被動媒體詢問他他是被動嗎他是被動對 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4452.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4465.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
可是他也認為說會談到這個議題是不是沒有 他認為對方他認為他現在不想談這個問題他不想談那個問題可是在那個月底的時候他其實會跟習近平談到談論的議題因為他是假設可能習近平如果有見面會想要談這個問題因為他是眼中的蘋果 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4469.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4482.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
但是對於我想如果你詳細看那個川普總統在這個回應上面他說他並沒有想要在這個時候去談這個問題那我也特別是提出其實這也不是誰能夠去談的問題其實美國是有台灣關係法跟六項保證 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4487.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4501.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
如果你詳細去看那裡面的內容這不是任何總統他單方面可以去談的而且美國的國會也已經把台灣關係法跟六項保證已經透過共同決議現在甚至是立法的方式所以這個是跨黨派我想在美國的這個對台政策是相當 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4508.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4528.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
一致的至於他們對中的政策這之間當然因為兩岸的關係會有一些互相影響不過我認為這是兩個不同的就是說對美國來講並不是我們冷戰時候可能會涉及到美中台那種三邊關係美中有美中的政策美台也有美台的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4528.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4548.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
所以部長是認為說他其實是媒體詢問所以他就被動告知因為我後來看到那個媒體還提到就是說他們有提到那個區域安全的那個時候川普就強調就是說美國在印太地區的軍事主義他的實力主義阻嚇中國對台動武這是一個對中國的警告對 因為那是因為澳大利亞總理他們因為有涉及到就是Quad |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4552.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4559.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
就是前艇的問題涉及到是不是如果中共適用在美英澳三邊的戰略跟軍事上的合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4573.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4599.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
四方會談嘛 你講的是這個嘛跨的嘛 他們在講跨的那個會談OK 因為時間的關係後面那問題大概是問到這裡只是說過去可能國人有很多的疑慮可能就是說可能川普上去之後呢對台灣可能是一個非常不利的一個走向可是現在看起來的話其實發展狀況目前我們還覺得說其實中美關係其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4600.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4615.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
沒有想像中的這麼的不OK甚至我們還發現說最近美國常常會提到提到台灣那我也覺得說本期也認為說川普政府應該也意識到在這個印太地區如果要跟中國競爭其實台灣是一個關鍵 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4617.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4639.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
對 因為想說中國企圖改變現狀在多方面那我想台灣對美國來講是很好的一個我們理念相近以外我們有共同的利益包括在這個安全上另外就是在經濟上所以我想更大的就是說一個角度來看我們台美關係其實是其實川普2.0我們在一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4642.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4660.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
接近一年以來 我們應該是政策的延續性是很清楚的OK 好 以上謝謝好 謝謝謝謝羅美媛委員的發言部長您回座 喝杯水下面我們請馬文君委員來質詢馬委員請謝主席 麻煩請部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4677.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4681.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
部長早部長我想今天我們討論也有提到APEC這個部分因為在很多朝野委員或者很多其實大家都非常關注的就是一直有這樣的傳言說部長跟吳釗燮秘書長你們不合的這樣的傳聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4703.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4716.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那這一次其實外管處也都非常的關心那這一次一起要去參加IPEC這個部分部長你有什麼要力推的事情嗎或者是要破除不合的傳言 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4718.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4743.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
其實國安會一直有徐師傑現在是諮詢委員 之前副秘書長常年在對於APEC來協調我們跨部會當然外交部還有包括經濟部都是其中很重要其實過去 尤其在去年在秘魯運作得非常好 所以我們可以捍衛我意思是說你們兩位要一起去因為過去好像也沒有這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4744.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4755.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
我們所謂雙部長會議我們過去以來外交部長都是由就是看那一年的主題部長當然沒有問題我現在是說包括國安會的秘書長也一起去因為大家對你們兩位是比較關注的國安會秘書長並沒有去我也沒有去我們會再坐鎮台灣這一次你們兩位都沒有要去嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4768.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4780.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
我們都沒有要去我們就在台灣作證兩個都是一樣那剛剛也有委員提到就是說像川習會兩個人會在APEC可能他們會討論到台灣的這樣的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4786.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4790.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
那我們有什麼應對的準備因為剛剛我覺得我們好像太過樂觀認為川普總統他是被動的去提及可是川普總統他是非常聰明的人而且他是主導性非常強的他從來不會是被動的他都是主動的所以我想我們不用特別去幫他引導這樣子的一個方向那如果說在這一次他們有提到這樣的議題我們會怎麼應對 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4816.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4831.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們跟美方都有很好的管道都有持續溝通因為APEC有它的主題假設有川習會因為這個都是現在還在發展中沒到最後真的所以我們也很難做一些假設性的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4832.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4836.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這個不是假設性的回答因為這個攸關我們台灣本身非常大尤其美中兩國對我們影響最大我們實時的在對美國付出那麼多尤其現在關稅的問題我們提出非常非常多的而且犧牲非常多 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4849.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4862.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
中國大陸也是我們也是一個關注的一個重要的對象這兩個如果他們提到台灣問題的時候我們沒有假設你必須要去預判因為這樣對我們的影響會是什麼這個部分要怎麼會有什麼樣的應對的模式確實我們都有跟著不同的發展的可能的所謂劇本或想定去做一些預判跟因應比如什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4876.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4899.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
比如說他有沒有見面見面談了些什麼那我們跟美方其實都很密切在溝通因為照川普的風格因為他是個談判大師他也很enjoy談判所以這個時候在這個過程可是我們也了解美中的問題要談的也很多台灣現在不是重點那可是是不是習近平會主動去提什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4900.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4923.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那當然川普他也講說他主動上沒有要去談習近平的重點可能會是台灣那如果他沒有川普如果沒有主動談尤其去主動談的時候我們要怎麼應對我問的是這個有沒有什麼具體的一個做法我們就是有沙盤推演各種的可能的想定現在可以提出一個比較具體的沙盤推演的內容嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4927.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4939.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
比如什麼 讓我們先知道一下我想有些象徵性 有些是實質性的啦當然你說象徵性涉及到是不是什麼跟一中有關可是實質性涉及到軍購 這些議題那這個時候 這個因為互相要的東西跟可以給的東西是什麼我們只要把它對照起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4948.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4953.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
在美中之間就有可能比如說現在川普很關心當然除了這個關稅問題就是芬太尼還有其他稀土部長那個都不是跟台灣直接關切我們現在擔心的是我們面對美國的關稅的問題因為從頭到尾我們看到我們不斷的付出我們不斷的被犧牲我們從剛開始只有台積電過去到現在整個夜聯通要過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4972.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4976.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
包括今天來的農業部我們在農業的採購上面我們無條件的放寬我們對美的投資還有我們對於國防的這樣的一個支出其實在在都顯示跟我們原來開始預定的目標不斷不斷的在放大不斷不斷的在付出可是我們到現在還沒有談出結果那美中如果在APEC如果他們碰到 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4996.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5011.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
在那裡有討論到台灣的時候其實甚至我們有可能很多的地方會被犧牲的更多因為最重要的是我們就是壓單邊現在我們一直說美國對我們很好事實上好在哪裡可不可以說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5012.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5019.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我想台美關係是互惠的我們有互惠嗎當然有 台灣的安全 經濟還有我們在國際組織的參與台灣的安全美國沒有絕對的承諾他沒有說要幫台灣出兵我們現在看到的是我們在關稅因為我們看到剛剛你們有提到韓國你們有提到其他的國家我們看韓國好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5035.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5039.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
韓國在這一次APEC是在韓國舉行他們甚至跟美國都已經談妥了我想要請教一下如果以剛開始他們設定美方對韓國要求國防支出要達到GDP的3.8%對日本要求要達到3.5%對我們也是要求甚至高達5%可是我們3.32%我們明年已經高達3.32% |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5062.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5064.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
總統是說到2030年才要到達5%可是我們現在看起來不是我們都已經快要追上這個腳步了我想請教部長就你所知韓國跟日本他們有依照3.5%跟3.8%這樣的額度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5081.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5090.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
因為這次所謂的這個關稅談判他是框一個大的數字比如說5500億或3500億那因為他有讓美國有比較大的主導權韓國跟日本還包括馬來西亞包括其他東西的國家從都沒有他們現在甚至都被放寬甚至跟美國談到更優惠的條件跟原來所以我們今天為什麼不斷的會提到這個部分尤其今天特別邀請很多相關單位到現場來 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5110.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5115.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
我想要請教的是剛剛已經提到了顯然到目前為止你們沒有答案你們說有沙盤推演可是到現在提不出一個 其中的一個如果我們看到他們在舉行這個APEC他們有兩雙方有碰面的時候我們再隨時因應那時候再請教因為現在你們回答不出來可是我們要特別請教的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5136.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5142.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們在過去在跟大陸談 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5145.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5166.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那時候都說是黑箱那現在用這麼機密的方式因為所有的國家都跟國都跟國人或者跟他們的相關的民意代表就是民意機關其實都有做詳細的報告可是我們用很高的這個機敏的態度來面對因為不斷不斷的變你覺得哪一種我們的損失比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5173.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5187.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
其實我們台灣有自己的國家利益要捍衛自己的國家安全台灣的國家利益是什麼當然維持我們的主權還有我們的這個安全還有我們的發展我們不斷的犧牲跟付出我們有主權嗎我們現在看到的我先簡單 農業部一起上來好不好好 農業部 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5205.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5215.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我想請教一下因為我們台美關稅談判是用絕對機密的案件在進行對不對那農業部請問農業部現在納入國家機密保護法嗎有沒有你必須定期查核的有多少人 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5223.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5246.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
因為你們有參與啊是 包括詳細的人數我不知道但是有非常多的人哪些人包括我們除了相關的長官以外另外就是像國際司還有包含辦理兩岸業務的相關的同仁他們都有被核定嗎是核定機敏是怎麼處理當然就是依照相關的規定來管制什麼叫相關的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5247.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5271.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
因為你有參與嘛對你本身有嗎有有我本身也有做什麼樣的約束比如說我們要出國的話就要報准報准是然後呢如果在國外有任何這個接觸相關的這個人員的話回來也要通報我們被核判的機密等級就您的立場來看你被核定的等級是什麼是密機密還是極機密 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5275.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5294.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這個我就不信 因為我就是被管制的人員你有參與嘛 可是你因為告訴我們立法院還有告訴全體國人說台美關稅談判是絕對機密的案件可是你自己到底被框的是哪一種密件的等級你自己都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5296.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5321.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
我們在上一次要求的時候 行政院第一個回答是說副院長室人員參與談判 皆有經過安全查核對不對 你有嗎我本身也有經過安全查核怎麼樣的安全查核是 據我的了解 細部我真的不知道但是我知道是送到調查局去查核有送過去 其他農業部還有什麼人 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5323.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5334.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這個其實也不是只有農業部啦就每個單位負責國際跟兩岸我問的是農業部因為你只能代表農業部嘛其他單位他們有自己的那個我想請教一下農業部有多少人或者舉一個職位好了還有誰比如說我剛剛跟委員報告比如說我們辦國際事務的像國際事務的司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5342.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5364.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
他們全部都有 會後把資料提供給我們好不好因為我剛剛提到行政院那時候的回答是這麼說表示他們可能沒有經過特殊查核你們經過的是安全查核 只有一般的查核可是因為在立法院保持非常高的機密性因為從來沒有洩露過任何一個訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5368.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5381.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
那第二個回答是說另一國家機密保護法於出境前應經核准之人均有依照該法規申請出境這件表示可能是只有副院長楊珍妮政委還有國安會的秘書處長張惠娟是應該批准之人 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5388.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5393.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
副院長辦公室的那些機要人員比如說像江姓或李姓的這樣的人員其實他們都大剌剌的出現在鏡頭面前他們也都出去了可是他們都沒有被列入陰莖核准之人明顯違反國家緊密保護法第26條這個部分我想部長也在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5413.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5421.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
今天如果要提供給我們資料你可以這麼隨便的時候今天那個行政院的那個經貿辦其實有來嘛副院長在過去其實他是他是反覆冒黑箱非常大力的喔今天他在面對台美關稅談判的時候是另一個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5441.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5443.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
而且美國寫的劇本我們是按照它在演美國不斷地在變我們不斷地在付出這個真的用一句話來形容叫請君入甕 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5453.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5476.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
曾立軍 曾副院長因為他在服貿的時候他曾經大力的說這是黑箱可是現在面對在服貿的時候反而我們付出的相對很少我們賣出很多 我們獲利我們得到的利多也很多那時候我們被說成是黑箱可是你今天我們看到國防支出不斷的上升我們在明年公開預算有9400億9400 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5480.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5485.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
九四五零億然後你還有特別的預算已經一千多億甚至還有人在美國放話說我們還要再編一兆多這樣子的國防支出這是安全嗎這是在掏空台灣 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5496.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5498.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
這個部分我們不斷不斷的付出可是你們卻沒有辦法對國人我們在付出這麼多剛剛我們提到了包括農業包括我們其他的投資包括我們整個台積電的產業鏈全部過去的時候我們到底可以得到什麼到現在關稅的結果還不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5512.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5516.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
韓國已經要討論細節了馬來西亞也討論細節了很多東協國家他們都已經知道了而且他們是減少的我們到現在不斷增加這不是黑箱什麼叫黑箱你們當你們要做這樣的行為的時候你們告訴我們說這是一個非常機敏的案子可是誰被管制了 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5533.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5547.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
我們問起來其實大家都沒有被管制只有立法院只有我們台灣所有的人民在被框在什麼都不需要知道都不應該知道都不必知道的一個情況之下這是我們今天特別要說的因為時間的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5549.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5561.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
部長 我們希望外交部把你的經驗給其他的單位行政院也是怎麼樣用機密的一個文件可以提供我們詢問或者我們要的資料農委會跟行政院我們上一次有說相關的人員包括你機要人員你是做什麼樣的查核什麼樣的等級應該提供給我們已經拖很久了所以我們在這裡慎重的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5577.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5596.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
在三天之內希望把那個過程提供用密件也沒關係提供給我們如果不懂的話問外交部好不好好 我們會把經驗分享沒有 我們三天之內就要那個查核的那個人員跟他們查核的一個方式農委會跟行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5600.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5606.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
警報辦有沒有問題如果是符合這個相關規定我們一定會遭因為你們都已經做了你們都已經出去談回來了你們告訴我們所有的委員說你們都不用知道因為這是機敏的你跟美國其實有簽這樣的機敏的協議所以我們都不用知道也不應該知道也不可以知道你們完全沒有報告任何的內容我們一而再再而三所有的大家在關切的全體國人在關切我們都沒有人提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5629.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5655.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
報告委員就是說有關於談判代表的部分我們是有關於是仿到各國的慣例各國都是只有公部主壇人以及部長級以上的官員可是你對國因為他們沒有列機密你今天在我們國內列機密比如說像我們開機密會議的時候不是只有立法委員還是只有官員列出來在場的其實全部都有還包括我們的立法院的議事人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5657.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5684.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
所以這些人其實都會列在那個機密的範圍裡面今天如果你有代表我們所有國人或者不是主談的對象可是你有參與那也算所以請提供相關的一些文書資料密件就用密件一定要提供好不好我們會再依照相關規定來處理什麼叫依照相關規定依照相關規定就是你如果是密件立法院要求的你就必須按照這樣的程序交給我們啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5686.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5703.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
這樣有問題嗎剛剛跟委員報告就是說有兩位機要人員我已經說了你們在鏡頭上面他們都已經出現很多人都看到了那他們去參與的時候到底用什麼樣子的一個身份也請提供謝謝謝謝馬文君委員的質詢各位部會所長請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5715.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5741.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
下面我們請黃仁委員來質詢謝謝主席有請我們部長還有我們行政院經貿談判的執行秘書還有經濟部的次長何次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5747.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5766.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
剛剛部長有提到就是我們以晶片為台灣自居那當然今天我們特別要講的是美國商務部長這個盧特尼克在日前的作訪的時候曾經提及台美晶片產能的製造那55分的構想請問這個經貿辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5773.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5799.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
在台美第五輪實體的磋商中美方代表有沒有向我方提出這樣的一個訴求我想金茂 你們來回答這個是 委員好有關於晶片五五分這個是美方的說法台灣從來沒有承諾也不會答應晶片五五分我們絕對是審慎一對是魯特尼克個人的想法還是美國的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5801.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5811.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
美方的想法我們沒有辦法幫他詮釋上次他來這個地方受訪的時候他特別提出這個想法是他個人還是代表美國想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5814.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5832.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
是 報告委員我們看到的訪問是盧克尼克以商務部長的身份來受訪來說出這樣的想法那至於您剛剛的回答就是說您剛剛的問題是說這是他個人的想法還是代表美國政府整體的想法因為我不是美國政府的官員所以我沒辦法回答他特別我剛剛已經講出來了嘛盧克尼克 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5835.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5854.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
這個盧特尼克日前受訪的時候他就特別講我們希望台美晶片的產能製造希望能夠在五五波現在我跟你講了嘛是他個人還是美國的想法嘛你現在回答我就好了啊那麼簡單是 以他是商務部長的身份我們會認為這是美國的想法對嘛 這樣講就好了嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5858.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5886.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
對不對 我們五五波對我們來講的話是非常不利的對我們產能的晶片裡面來講非常不利那我們這個行政院我們的副院長 鄭麗晶副院長從未 他們也說出了從未有五五波的承諾也不會去答應這樣的一個條件因為我們絕對會神聖以對這句話是來看起來是意志堅決但是在現在的條件下說出的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5888.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5911.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
假設未來美國透過更強硬 現在川普不斷的逼逼強硬的做法我們如何的因應 我們會不會讓步如果未來用不同的方法來強硬對著我們的晶片然後我們必須要禮讓五五波 有沒有這個可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5912.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5932.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
向委員報告其實這個是跟台美雙方目前磋商中的供應鏈合作的投資的方向其實是不一樣的台美雙方其實目前還在就供應鏈合作的方案討論之中我方是在跟流台灣佈局全球的總體戰略下提出台灣模式來跟美方討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5932.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5953.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好我這邊在本席在做一個確認我們請教一下我們林部長還有我們的經貿部部會的立場你們敢不敢在這個地方承諾只要是賴總統還是中華民國的總統就絕對不會答應誤分部長你回答一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5955.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5963.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
這個是行政院經貿談判辦公室應該整體的談判的台灣從未承諾也不會答應晶片五分 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5965.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5987.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
這個就是我們對我們也要有所的強硬的應對你看美國要求這個中國大陸他們的要求由中國大陸不應應他們的不應應合他們的一些要求我們本來我們的晶片就是以台灣自居的立場我們也要有所一個強硬 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5989.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6005.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
那另外就是把232條款美國的232條款是在根據1962年貿易擴展法第232節以國家安全為由進口商徵收關稅的調查措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6006.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6020.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
納入疑病挫傷那是美國要求的還是會有這樣的一個要求記了解在台美售232條款影響最重要的是鋼理的產品鋼理產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6022.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6046.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
所以在這個部分台美21世紀貿易倡議已經有共識了關稅配額的方式配套但是現在又要以232再重新的調整要求我們必須做出一個讓步美國才會落實關稅配額的共識如果是這樣的話你們有什麼想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6048.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6069.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
跟委員報告首先這個在台美21世紀貿易商業並沒有就鋼鋁的關稅配額達成協議那鋼鋁的確是鋼鋁還有半導體等等這些都是我國重要的出口產業所以在232的談判當中我們都會跟美方來做討論也會提出相關的要求那我想藉我了解是美國的要求對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6071.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6078.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
美國的232調查它倒不是針對台灣它是針對它美國自己產品的需要那為什麼美國始終沒有對我們的鋼理的關稅配額協議簽署實施呢為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6086.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6098.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這已經在之前已經有這個所謂的關稅配額的一個角度可是到現在 到現在都還沒有拿來這個對實施鋼鋁關稅配額的協議簽署的實施啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6101.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6105.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我想我原指的是那個美國在實施鋼鋁關稅之後他曾經有跟某一些國家有實施這個關稅配額的措施但是在川普總統上任之後都把它廢除了都沒有任何的這個豁免然後而且還把它從25%調高到50%所以台灣出口美國的半導體以資通信的產品目前也在上 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6126.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6147.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
二三二條款的調查在調查當中列入談判中美國是否未辭為籌碼來要求我們必須做出一個讓步那如果是這樣的話我們有什麼樣要求半導體跟自動自動性產品移除在二三二條款的這個調查外 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6148.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6153.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
跟委員報告就是美國它進行232調查的這些產品產業包括藥品 鋼鋁 半導體還有很多的產品它其實是根據它美國自己的再工業化的需求還有國安的需求各國也會就它這樣的需求來跟它進行談判談判有各式各樣的狀況我國目前也是在跟美國談供應鏈合作要來爭取232的關稅的優惠待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6177.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6201.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
所以你們要提出綱理的這個配額的一個協議簽署應該盡快實施對我們台灣的綱理來講是一個正面的有個交代好 請回我想請部長那請回次長 請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6204.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6229.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
關於美烏領袖的會晤根據金融時報的報導美國川普在烏克蘭的澤倫斯基在10月17號的時候在白宮會晤結果川普不但對澤倫斯基的一個強硬的手段並要求烏克蘭接受俄羅斯的一個統戰中戰的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6230.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6258.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
不只稱俄烏戰爭是特別行動而非戰爭還要哲倫斯基要讓基普割讓給這個整個的頓巴斯所以部長看到這個消息你會不會覺得有一點不安的感覺因為俄烏戰爭發生後我們一直堅定認為這是一場民主自由對抗極淺侵略的戰爭並且台灣美國歐洲印度烏克蘭等 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6260.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6278.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
國家以形成民主同盟,會共同對抗俄國、中國大陸或北韓等極淺的集團。只要遇到關於烏克蘭的事務,我們一定會說,攜手民主同盟理念,相信國家對抗危險主義擴張。 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6280.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6297.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
但是你認為美國如今對烏克蘭的態度會不會造成民主同盟的逐步崩潰對於美國一起攜手對抗危險主義的國家而言是一種信心或者是一個信仰的打擊所以部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6298.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6323.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我們未來對台灣也會不會像這樣烏克蘭一樣我們民主同盟之後那如果一旦在利益之上受到了美國不利益利益之上的話是不是就讓他去跟俄羅斯一妥協台灣未來我們要如何自處部長你想一下你的想法好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6323.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6351.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
是 跟委員報告我想二五戰爭當然是一件不幸的事情那也很值得我們學習的不管正面的經驗或是負面的經驗那我想首先戰爭是很殘酷的那烏克蘭人他自己捍衛自己國家的這個主權還有領土但是呢這個國際政治有時候它很現實的一面所以這一個變成說現在陷入一個僵局嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6353.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6367.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
包括川普總統還有各方面想促成能夠這個停火或者是和談可是這些方案不同的內容我想都會被討論到但最後會怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6368.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6390.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這也取決於俄烏各種主客觀的因素對台灣來講我們要學習到的就是說我們一定要增加自我防衛的決心跟能力另外外交很重要因為這個其實戰爭發動之後怎麼去解決啊就是涉及到很多利害關係的特別是國際的大國所以這方面我們外交也要做好那因為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6391.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6408.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們必須要知道美國是以利益之上台灣不能這樣被犧牲掉所以本席還是要提醒我們部長外交部從蔡政府開始我國的外交方針非常的偏重於所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6409.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6427.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
民主同盟這種價值外交的框架包含今天報導中也在道說明外交部秉持賴總統的指導方針及其推動價值外交的理念但在應用相近的理念開拓外交的版圖本身沒有什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6428.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6455.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
可是在國際政治的一個畢竟它還是一個以利益掛帥以利益掛帥所以我們永遠沒有敵人也永遠沒有朋友那大國出賣這個出賣這個私利的這個私欺利益的一個價值的同盟的國家案例在歷史上是比比皆是所以本席要特別提醒部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6456.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6479.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
價值外交當然固然重要 可是價值外交不能被利用我們國家的利益 好不好確實 確實和平靠實力 Peace to strength我們自己一定要壯大起來然後也做好不管是外交上面的各種可能性能夠避免我想兩岸之間變成這個只是 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6480.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6493.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
中國跟台灣的問題這個是一個國際上我們怎麼樣去善用我們的外交上面的合縱聯合但是我們本身對於國家的安全我們台灣一定要展現我們的決心跟實力 謝謝接下來請林楚英委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6513.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6515.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
謝謝主席主席有請林部長請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6524.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6543.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
部長早我今天好幾題要問你首先我們當然就先從這個高市早苗開始好了他昨天已經當選了日本第104屆的首相那麼張圖我們就可以看得出來其實他在擔任首相之前拜訪台灣那麼不只是跟您見過面跟賴總統也見過面這個我想台日友好 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6547.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6569.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
標題特別講說邁入新篇章我想這個絕對無庸置疑喔只是對於這個高四找苗上任之後那麼如何真正的來深化台日之間的友誼而且能夠更具體的包括爭取台灣能夠加入CPTPP這個部分有沒有機會更進一步喔部長你有沒有什麼樣的看法因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6569.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6575.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我想在高四找苗之前月初當選我們的這個當選日本自民黨的這個總裁的時候其實賴清德總統就有發文而他在賴清德總統的發文底下呢也特別留言了說對日本而言台灣是共享經濟價值的而且擁有緊密關係與人際往來極為重要的夥伴 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6593.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6621.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
珍貴的朋友那麼期待台日之間的合作與交流能夠更加深化在這個部分你看他都直接會在賴總統的祝賀上面去留言那就表示說這個部分是不怕大家看啦那麼也更強調了他挺台就是遵循過去安倍晉三的這種台灣有事就是日本有事的走向那麼您怎麼來評估目前接下來的台日之間的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6623.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6642.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我們對於高市早苗擔任日本的首相我們是除了恭賀以外我們也是當然有所期待那當然這個分很多的層次來看當然個人的友好關係那是一個可是我覺得日本他的國家利益出發 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6644.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6664.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這個跟台灣的國家利益去找到最大的交集這個就是我們外交的工作那你如果看到高市早苗這個首相其實他很清楚的政策主張不管是從安倍晉三時代他就參與其間所印太戰略另外在於對於台灣的關係上比如他的認為這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6667.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6692.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
科技產業他也具體都可以不看稿講的從半導體人工智慧然後到量子到這個其他的太空各方面的合作那其中有一個很重要是經濟安全所以經濟安全就涉及到CPTPP除了台日應該加強經濟的整合來支持我們的這個民主同盟以外那我們對 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6693.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6706.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
最近應該說最優先也最重要的就是我們期待高市早苗新的政府能夠支持跟協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6707.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6732.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
台灣加入CPTPP因為今年這個主辦國是這個輪席主席國是澳大利亞但是日本是倡議國當時就是安倍晉三前首相倡議那所以來實現這個這個日本的基本上就是說扮演一個主導角色沒有美國因為以前是TPP但是CPTPP是由日本主導那這12國裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6734.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6763.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
日本也是我想是經濟這個不管是GDP或者是貿易是最大最重要的國家所以我們在這一點上希望作為短期台日之間努力的一個目標好 那麼這個部分當然我們就希望因為剛好輪值國也是對我們非常友善的澳洲而目前當然換上了這個高市政府我們也期待就是以把這個當作台灣在推動台日友好當中的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6764.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6775.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
目標跟進程不過在這個部分當然喔也因為現在日本的旅遊以及外國人越來越多所以日本是加嚴了對外國人的政策尤其是他們特別成立了一個監督外國人在日本的這樣的一個新事務局喔叫做與外國人有序共生社會推進企那麼尤其是現在在蔡政黨所推動的日本優先主義喔外國人這個問題當然就引發了焦點 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6793.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6817.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
雖然說我相信啦對日本人來講中國人跟台灣人不一樣他們是非常有感但是有一些新的政策跟措施的部分會不會對台灣的民眾造成困擾在這個部分比如包括像日本針對他們10月1號開始對外國人來加嚴護照的換發那麼其實台灣跟日本之間是有互惠的就是相互的證照的承認所以其實台灣的護照 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6819.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6836.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
台灣的駕照只要加上日文的譯本去做申請就可以換得日本的駕照這個其實我們不受影響但是在這個部分有沒有一定的宣傳因為我在網路上看到有一些人開始引起恐慌喔可是其實根本跟台灣沒有關係再來是日本政府也加強跟提高了就是對於外國人對日本境內的一些投資從過去的500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6843.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6866.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
日元現在提升到了三千萬日元等於增加到了六倍這些措施喔對於台灣來說其實影響不大但是都會造成一定的恐慌那麼尤其是我特別提起駕照這個問題有沒有一些現在關注到的變成是台灣的駕照被盜用或濫用等等外交部有沒有做好一些宣傳跟準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6867.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6892.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
謝謝委員 因為在10月1號的時候實施駕照換新的新制度但是我們向日本台灣交流協會台北事務所有交涉也確認他們有回覆說明這個新規定並不影響現有台日駕照互惠的措施此台灣駕照在日本短期開車的時候所需的相關資料跟作業還是按照現行的規定辦理我們會來加強宣傳 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6894.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6915.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
好 但是就是包括你看我截的這個截圖就是因為現在外國人但是台灣除外因為台灣跟日本之間有駕照的所謂的這樣的一個互相認證的這樣一個措施所以台灣人的駕照變得非常的好用那就出現了中國人來假冒 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6916.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6934.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
台灣的駕照然後造勢之後或者是在被逮到之後這個部分我也希望外交部能夠留意然後也對國人做宣傳好不好對所以他們日本會執法方面我想最重要是宣導讓台灣不要我們的駕照很珍貴的不要 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6935.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6950.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
不管是因著什麼因素啦有時候遺失啦或是是不是有一些什麼私下的這個有人去運用了我們一定要減少或阻止發生這種情形台灣駕照被盜用或者是可能是被犯罪集團怎麼樣去利用 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6950.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6968.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
好另外一個本席要關注的東西就是回到今天的主題喔就是我們在講有關於現在面臨跟美國進行的關稅談判的部分那麼現在這個事件會不會影響到關稅談判那就是在9月24號的時候美國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6972.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6996.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
海關紀邊境保護局也就是CBC對於台灣可以算是過去我們一直認為是台灣之光的這個捷安特也就是巨大機械發出了假扣押令那麼這個暫時的扣押令是說因為我們在人權跟勞工的部分違反了他們的措施那我們都知道其實過去我們有一些漁工的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6997.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7018.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
被幾次這種所謂國際組織來做提醒甚至於發出警訊甚至於有過去我現在列出來的三件有關於漁工的問題喔那麼我們現在就要來看專家都在提醒是說這個會不會是一個未來談判的時候變成是一個變數跟因素所以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7019.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7042.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
不只是傳產 連科技業的勞權問題可能也會變成是跟美國在進行關稅談判當中的一個重要的因素我不知道外交部怎麼來看這個事件而且我知道9月30號這個巨大機械其實是有發函請勞動部 經濟部跟外交部給予協助那目前這個案子的溝通狀況如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7043.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7046.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
報告委員我們在第一時間事實上從美出那邊得知他們這個CBT會針對捷安特有所謂戰扣令我們就開始協助捷安特就巨大機械他們的處理他們也做了一些說明因為這個最主要是有人檢舉然後有一些報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7067.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7086.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這涉及到移工大概有兩個問題他們也都會改善雖然他們其實也是蠻好的一個企業一個就是所謂的移工引入的費用的問題另外一個就是所謂住宿環境的問題他們都現在用最高標準就是避免任何爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7087.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7100.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
在這方面我想這展現他公司的誠意因為現在要去交涉是美國CPT什麼時候可以把它解除因為美國現在政府是關閉中台灣的交涉單位會是外交部還是經濟部還是勞動部還是談判部 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7104.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7130.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我想產業方面當然是經濟部勞動部當然也有在協助不過站在我們外交部就是整體的所以這個部分我想業者已經提出說明而且有改善的具體的回應在美國的交涉我們外交部在協助跟CPT這邊可以最快的時間讓他們可以去說明然後可以把它解除掉這個目前為止我想還是一個單一事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7130.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7133.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
所以你認為這個不會影響到接下來後續的談判也不會變成是說勞工議題也變成是接下來在經濟談判上面被拿出來因為有這些勞權的談判的導權的團體又或者是專家認為說這個就是有人檢舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7148.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7158.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
然後檢舉之後在還沒有確認這個狀況底下就已經先執行了戰扣令那麼會不會就是只是有嫌疑但就是以戰扣令然後來做擴大在未來談判的時候變成是勞權問題也被加入 您怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7165.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7179.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
其實美方一直有這方面的給我們的這個要求或壓力啦我們也盡量就是在符合國際的包括這些相關的人權公約等等不過就個案來講這個案子如果詳細去了解我想只要讓這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7182.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7192.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
巨大他們有機會去說明我想應該美方會覺得他們做了很多努力而且是一個很好的企業也不要因為這個單一事件去擴及到其他造成一些恐慌至於說勞權的部分我想這個案子也給我們我想有一些提醒因為現在就是國際人權團體對這些是很關注的 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7211.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7212.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好 謝謝接下來請葉元之委員上台質詢主席好 麻煩請外交部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7248.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7275.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
部長好跟部長請教一下因為之前我們現在跟美國關稅政府講說是暫時性關稅但是從8月到現在也暫時很長一段時間了大概暫時了好幾個月了請問大概要暫時多久您的預估因為現在寫總結報告中這個總結報告完我想應該就可以宣布總結報告大概要寫多久應該已經草案都有了吧草案都有所以一個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7276.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7290.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
還是兩個禮拜因為這涉及到台美 也是涉及到美國他們把他就是最後的階段怎麼樣再進一步來確定所以大概兩個禮拜 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7292.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7321.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我剛剛講這是因為最近我想包括APEC或者是各種的這個國際的會議但是美台之間都一直有在溝通我知道有在溝通我們也沒有否認說政府有溝通只是因為暫時暫時大家會以為很短但是因為暫時現在暫時很長了所以大家會想要知道到底還要暫時多久我當然知道有溝通你們絕對不會在家裡睡覺一定就是很努力在溝通可是總是要讓大家知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7322.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7324.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
還要暫時多久嘛因為現在暫時關稅我們是20%加N嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7326.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7342.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
那主要出口的競爭國日本 韓國他們是15不用加所以我們比他高但是政府那時候說放心我們一定會談到至少不要疊加然後甚至於20可以降到15所以現在在談我現在只是在問說還要暫時多久會暫時到年底嗎我問委員報告因為談判是一個非常策略性的互動是那我們做好準備有各種的方案但是其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7357.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7381.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
這個時間也是談判策略的一部分有些東西也擠不得怎麼樣去發揮最大的談判效果我們其實問這個不是想要破壞你們的談判策略而是國人想要知道因為有些產業他要思考說他要怎麼因應比如說你如果要暫時半年暫時一年跟暫時兩個月他因應方式就不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7382.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7404.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
像我們有一些企業是不是還沒有受到影響可是有些企業就已經受到影響我們的無薪假是一直增加10月1號的時候已經8000多而且那個無薪假也延燒到足科了現在也有足科有企業是實施無薪假所以我一直認為說其實我們政府應該可以在可以介入的範圍之內盡量讓國人知道現在談判的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7405.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7431.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
不然大家比較有因應我知道部長可能今天也不能說所以你就沒有給個明確的答案但是我們是希望不要暫時太久現在看起來像南韓就有宣布我看彭博社報導是說南韓講說他們跟美國的談判已經有實質性的進展而且在很多關鍵性的問題他們其實是有得到一些美國有些讓步其中 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7432.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7453.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
有一個是說因為川普在之前和韓國日本包括台灣在內的企業代表都有求婿那南韓的代表包括像三星LG還有日本的一些企業台灣的也有不知道部長你知道這事嗎我知道有這件事那台灣的企業代表是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7454.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7473.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
我不方便戴維發言嘛他們邀請誰或誰去啊或者這之間的你知道有台灣的代表但是不能講就對了是不是但是確定是有台灣因為他也沒有公開啊對沒有那是彭博的報導嘛外媒的報導嘛那所以部長是證實有這件事情的啊沒有沒有我是說有求聚這件事情但是誰參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7475.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7479.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
我也不是參加者你知道有求續啦你知道有求續有啊 這個電視上都有看到電視上有看到然後他說有台灣的代表嘛那你不方便證實還是你不知道台灣有誰去 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7490.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7513.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我都有一些掌握但是我這裡我的角色不適合不適合講那實際上這個求續對南韓來說他們馬上就發布了他就說他們已經有實質性的進展所以人家也沒有在像你那麼緊張人家就是跟韓國人講說我沒有實質性的進展因為之前南韓關稅在談的時候也有卡住那美國要求他們要投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7514.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7531.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
3000多億美金他們不願意所以他們現在一有進展就跟國人講韓國是相對公開透明的國家我們稍微保守然後他們講說韓國現在已經建了因為他們同時建了盧特尼克跟貝森特我們這邊的談判對口是誰這可以講嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7533.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7547.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我想包括USTR的Clear還有包括財政部長Benson還有包括商務部長Lotnik這三位都有關都有關所以我們跟韓國見到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7549.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7572.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
對象是差不多的因為我現在是你都不講所以我就用南韓來類比人家有好的結果我們應該快有好的結果委員確實掌握非常那請教一下現在有一個消息是說我們現在要用全面開放美租還有美國車進口零關稅來換取不疊加只有這件事嗎這是世紀談判的內容有行政院經貿談判辦公室在負責那是不是請經貿談判辦公室來 請 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7578.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7601.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
是 像委員報告就是說有關於這個談判的這個承諾的內容我們都是秉持著這個四大原則國家利益沒有 不要再講原則了啦我在問說有沒有要全面開放美豬啦現在這個都在談判的過程當中所以我們是秉持四大利益在跟四大利益的話那開放美豬就是四大原則在跟美國一起談判好 那你覺得開放美豬有沒有影響到我們的食安 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7606.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7626.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
有關於這個問題可能比較開放美豬有沒有影響食安你們沒評估我們都是在這個有沒有影響開放美豬以前國民黨開放美牛的時候民進黨是上街頭的現在要開放美豬有沒有影響食安你如果連這個答案都答不出來你怎麼談判你有沒有影響食安有還是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7628.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7645.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
跟委員報告在四大原則的評估的時候我們都是請相關部會一起來評估的不是 你們已經在談了沒有辦法這樣很單純的講有或沒有不是 你今天一定是說美豬有影響食安有或沒有那在沒有的情況之下我們去用這個條件去談嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7646.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7670.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
有影響實案因為行政院已經揭示了就是說實案很重要所以全面開放美豬就沒有這個選項所以我現在問你說這個有沒有影響實案嘛你覺得沒有那我們就放心了啊你就可能會去談嘛你如果說有影響實案我們就放心嘛就這麼簡單嘛這個有什麼好不能講的只是說你現在打的模擬兩可大家就知道說這可能就有啦那沒關係那美國車進口零刊稅這個有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7675.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7701.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
有關於這個談判的細節現在目前因為還在進行當中等到有談判結果的時候其實大家其實都有建議過因為主席站起來其實大家都有建議過你在談判過程你適當的揭露國內的輿論或者是在黨聲音也可以成為政府對外談判的籌碼這個對台灣談判是有利的不是說全部都不講才是有利其實適當揭露才是有利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7702.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7724.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那你現在最後揭露如果說全面開放美豬或者是什麼這些條件都被大家發現真的是這樣其實我覺得政府會受到壓力是更大啦好 謝謝好 謝謝等一下陳冠廷委員質詢完畢以後休息五分鐘現在請陳冠廷委員上台質詢你好 我們請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7738.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7752.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
請部長好部長好部長我從書面報告裡面有指出說鄭麗君副院長她跟經貿談判辦公室的總談判代表9月底那已經跟商務部有進行了五輪的這個實體的磋商 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7753.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7775.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那現在主要就是232條款跟這個供應鏈合作的部分持續在協商中那我是希望說再次提醒就是台美的經貿關係它不要成為產業間的零和的競逐因為我們當然是要替半導體跟高科技的產業來爭取我們最大利益但是也不可以犧牲農業跟這些弱勢的產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7776.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7802.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我是希望說部長能夠在未來的你的這個總和外交裡面能不能夠包含以強帶弱的概念就是說我們很多優勢產業像是半導體的產業高科技產業這些產業鏈我也看到這個部長很積極的出訪的時候都帶著這些產業鏈去參與甚至是把一些經貿的這些工作也融合到外交的工作裡面但是這個部分有一點事情就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7803.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7825.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
在這個傳統的產業上在農業上面我們看今年整體的經濟是往上走可是傳產農業它沒有跟著一起走那所以說我們與其一個產業走一百步不如每一個產業都往前走一步所以這部分不知道部長有什麼樣的這個設計的藍圖對外交部的看法他的視野怎麼樣把我們以強帶弱想請教一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7827.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7849.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
報告委員陳玲玲講就是其實台美的這一次的關稅經貿談判可以用總和外交來做一個大戰略所以我們如果從那關稅好像就是零和可是如果涉及到投資那到底什麼產業是我們的優勢我們可以擴展 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7850.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7860.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我們的供應鏈而不是說去移轉那另外就是美國他畢竟是最終端的消費市場以外他有很好的科技 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7861.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7883.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
人才跟資金所以我們怎麼樣為我所用這個也是打造所謂經濟日不落國除了價值外交以外當然是很重要理念相近可是經濟還有這些利益的一致這個就是台灣安全最大的保障也因此我們在談的時候我們的戰略目標是什麼不是陷入被動 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7884.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7901.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好像他要一塊我們給五毛而是說更主動的去規劃那這裡面陳如玲提到了232條款他當然是基於國安然後企圖讓美國在工業化以外他也可以就是避免 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7902.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7919.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
在供應鏈上可能就是受制於了所以這個時候我們跟他可以扮演一個合作甚至合資的角色那因此從半導體產業我覺得從供應鏈的合作去看怎麼樣對台灣有利另外因為半導體產業又帶動最近這個人工智慧 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7920.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7942.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
包括BOOST是AI CHIPS AI SERVER AI DATA CENTERAI ROBOTICS AI FACTORY這一個是台灣的強項比如以伺服器來講它是做我們AI計算必備的而台灣有最先進的技術跟我們量產的能力所以這個時候我們把美國當作一個市場也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7943.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7950.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
當作我們一個就是說避免我們因為出口而造成的貿易的逆差而可能會影響他們對我們的這些要求提高關稅 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7958.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7981.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我們這個佈局到底是怎樣對台灣最有利我們應該有一個戰略的目標所以誠如委員提到的那我們也跟美國談你要做到這些那你必須讓台灣的企業能夠服務他們比如說所謂的科學園區或者所謂智慧科技園區那這個也不是說就能夠移過去因為涉及到法令 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7982.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8005.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
土地 水電還有非常多的行政服務包括單一窗口我想委員很清楚所以我們是有know-how的這個know-how是值錢的我們可以跟他一起參與來投資嘛投資科學園區的開發這個也就是台美聯合艦隊其實我五月已經率電電工會還有八大工協會到了德州要打造所謂台灣Tower |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8006.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8031.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
作為Team of Teams也就是在德州從我們現在電電工會的所謂電子七哥每一個都增加投資而且未來的三年幾乎是指數性的成長為什麼 供不應求因為比如說Stargate 5000億美金它就需要我們的AI Server而且我們還不是試試賣AI Server或AI Chips AI Data Center我們整個未來的營運我們如果能夠提供這個服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8034.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8045.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那我們的關係甚至我們怎麼樣去變成一個join venture合資的關係這才是把台灣跟美國的利益能夠綁在一起而且這個是對美國來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8053.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8064.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
美國優先 但台灣也優先我覺得是國家戰略或總和外交是我自己是這半年多來雖然我不是在談判的第一線但是我都跟談判團隊密切的聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8067.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8092.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
謝謝部長 你的這個外交的這個戰略報告是很完整我大概可以理解到說就是除了因應其實美國政府的這個變化那我們也做好我們相對的這一些政策那過去就如同你剛剛提到的 我們是講價值但是現在價值之外我們還要加值 加值的意思就是要讓我們的利害是一致的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8092.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8111.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
所以剛才你提到的說包含Server還有一些其他的這些高科技的產品我相信這些都是有注意的不過我也有注意到就是不管是在國內外很多我們跟這個外交部也好或者是國防部也好他們的相關的這些智庫他們主要辦的論壇 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8112.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8137.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
都還是直接跟這一個半導體相關那我覺得這很好這是我國的充滿這個最國際的產業鏈裡面很重要的一環但是我們台灣除了這一些高科技產業還有傳統產業高度精密的機械園區這些機械的這些工業也是傳產的一些種性所以如果未來我們可以在這些智庫裡面也提到說除了這一個半導體是不可或缺之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8138.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8167.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我们的加工我们的这些传产它同时也是在这个CP值也是非常高的那刚才提到的合资的这个部分那我们当然也是要鼓励美国也来台湾因为当然我们都知道说现在美方就是一直希望说我们把我们的这些相关的产业来移到美国去但是其实我们也必须要说服美国就是说在这一个台湾台湾国内我们的国内实际上是有很多的产业它是CP值是高的它可以用更低的这一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8169.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8195.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這個消耗來去達到更高的產值我想這部分儘管說我們當然知道現在的美國政府它的這個屬性可能跟過去的這個拜登政府不太一樣但我們還是要持續嘗試去努力所以部長想請教一下因為美方新版的這個國防戰略報告據傳還沒有確定它是說本土跟西半球可能會成為首要要應對的層級 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8197.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8213.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那這個部分我還是希望說部長在這樣的戰略重心他們萬一這樣調整的話那我們的跟美方之間的協調那就很重要了我覺得我們要強調一個根本就是說我們的安全他是不只他是依賴不只依賴一方的善意 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8213.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8232.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
所以我們剛才講到總和外交裡面就是除了美國之外我們對歐洲對任何在印太有利害關係的國家我們都要加強對他們的這些之間的這些關聯性還有加強跟這些印太國家在印太有利害的不見得是身處在印太的國家比方說法國他雖然是在歐洲但是他其實在 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8233.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8244.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
太平洋上都甚至有它的屬地在所以它也是印太國家所以這個部分我是想要請教一下部長你的戰略在針對萬一他們的重心做調整之外我們要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8245.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8264.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
報告委員其實經過這快一年來的整個發展我們已經比較清楚川普政府他的一個不管是安全或者是國防的戰略因為他現在有兩個最重要的報告我們都密切注意一個是美國的這個整個國家安全的戰略另外一個是國防 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8266.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8281.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
方面的戰略也陸續有透露一些方向以您提到的美國國防戰略的報告來講我想印太還是最重要台灣是一個不可或缺的夥伴這個時候怎麼樣來加強因為中國的威權擴張要 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8283.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8294.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
跨過第一島鏈去太平洋要去抗衡美國所以我們的角色已經不是說兩岸關係我們是相看在整個印太第一島鏈所以從雙邊到小多邊所謂網格狀的安全的架構小多邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8299.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8314.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
比如說我們當然除了跟美國有台灣關係法我們跟周邊國家不管日本菲律賓澳紐這個都在交織成各種我們想安全的韌性是不能太脆弱我們都只靠跟電網一樣分散式電網跟電網一樣分散式電網一個latest work就是一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8321.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8343.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
交疊在一起的這種所謂的小多邊關係比如說那美國也在建構美日韓 美日飛甚至就是說包括澳紐也都進來那台灣是不可或缺因為第一島鏈彼此相關只要中共飛機一起飛或者是說環台的時候那你可以想它的軍艦潛艇出入 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8347.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8375.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
第一島鏈就是宮古海峽跟巴士海峽嘛那一個在北邊日本一個在南邊菲律賓所以為什麼他們那麼重視這一個台海安全而且不能夠讓台海變成內海化都是基於他們國家利益所以我們要很了解美國的國家利益是什麼他的印太戰略為什麼他要把前沿部署能夠往前沿到關島包括對於日韓非這種串聯的各種演習很多那台灣也是不可或缺的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8376.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8396.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
謝謝部長部長我覺得今天你講的這個重點我最後做個總結就是小多邊這個概念我認為這是一個我們未來可以突破的這是操之在我們的那有些沒有辦法操之在我們自己的部分我們就盡量去影響但是操之在我們的小多邊這個部分我認為外交部跟我們的經濟部都可以一起來協助謝謝我們休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8748.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8749.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
請大家就座現在開始繼續開會 接下來請許巧欣委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8778.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8780.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
謝謝主席 我們先請林佳龍部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8787.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8808.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
部長好我想我們先從輕鬆一點的內容開始討論那就是有媒體報導您要寫新書了也先恭喜外交部要寫新書不是嗎但是就有人在講說這個外交部有些人說要寫書然後內部公務員有一些意見等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8809.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8825.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
你們也已經回應了非常的快速就講說是要做一些政策討論包含是總和外交等等的一些議題要做的書籍可不可以部長先幫我們介紹一下這個書的我想先問一下書名叫什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8827.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8852.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
是這樣就像我跟委員提到的業務報告這是我針對總和外交怎麼去推動我先好奇就是說它書名叫做什麼因為它不是什麼一本書啦它就是我們對政策的方向然後大家凝聚共識那也有個名字吧就是會是有一個報告一個報告那它不是會做成一個而且我跟委員報告那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8855.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8861.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
我的想法啦那個沒有什麼去動用什麼這個本來就是我們業務單位根據我的施政理念尤其是業務報告要落實到各單位去推動要配套嘛如果這個方面我想對於我們有共同的 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8874.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8894.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
這個外交的目標跟我們的路徑圖很重要我沒有要批評你的意思我只是很好奇說這個書的這個好 你叫政策白皮書也好就是怎麼樣也好他的這個名稱叫什麼我跟委員報告 比如我之前我自己這是跟這個沒有關係像我有這個出版一本叫經濟日不落國對就是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8897.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8919.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
有您在那個交通部長的任內交通部台灣這個新彥行國際聯合艦隊就是現在在推動的我們的經濟外交的來源嘛那我知道啦這個像交通部的時候您也有一本這樣子的這個冊子嘛那我覺得都沒有關係因為呢有政策讓更多人知道是好事那我只是想要好奇問一下說那你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8919.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8932.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
之前在交通部的時候您的這個我們就講好政策書好了叫做交通彩繪家林佳龍與人本交通的創新治理那呢我想要問一下現在我們在規劃的這個手冊那標題叫什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8937.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8955.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
這是不一樣的不過這個我跟委員講你講的這個是我自己我都自己出錢在就是說形成我自己的一些政策論述因為也要跟社會溝通這是民主的時代當然 我沒有反對所以我在當交通部長你也知道包括Uber問題的解決包括現在的T-Pass |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8955.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8963.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我知道了 包括無人機智慧電動車還有這些所有的很多是來自於我們帶一個政策我沒有反對我只是問一下你們想好這個名稱了沒有啊就標題我想問一下這個冊子的標題是什麼問題很簡單還沒有還沒想好而且這個跟委員講的這並不是說去出版一本書那你要什麼時候出版也不是用外交部的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8976.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8987.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
是把兄弟我自己長年來推動總和外交的一些施政理念跟同仁來共同形成一個配套的政策這次的施政理念的手冊好了我這樣講手冊是由您自己個人出資啊一向如此我從來我都不用公家的預算那撰寫書籍的話有請外交部的同仁協助嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9002.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9016.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
沒有 就是資料的整理根據我要的資料的整理他們不需要再做配套譬如說我們的歐洲政策我跟委員報告像我們最近有沒有我們有一個從科技到文化我們最近在推動歐洲為什麼會有突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9017.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9040.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
那以前就是我們30個外館 但是就各自為政你不要跟我說這麼多 到時候您出版了我會閱讀這個大作就知道了好不好我會跟您分享 如果有這個出版的話要不然我先送幾本我以前出版的給參考一下我看過我看過我一向是您的書籍的粉絲我都看過所以我才好奇說這個標題 標題還沒有訂那內容大概有那預計什麼時候要出版呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9048.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9069.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
有預計的時辰嗎我們就是一個要形成政策的一個共識跟論述的一個工作啦其實大家都要一起做這個工作才有共同的我們講說戰略圖像跟路徑圖你預計有什麼時候要把這個東西做出來我這樣講你可不可以不要能夠接受隨時都可以做出來因為都在我的我們在進行中的政策啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9069.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9089.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
OK好可是你總會有個時程吧那我如果問說那你明天就要做出來那你今天都還沒有想好標題怎麼可能呢那不叫隨時啊隨時就是我現在問你你就會跟我說答案如果應該用什麼方式會比較適合我都是開放式的我只是好奇而已那太好了知道委員的支持啊對我是開放式的更有這個動力對對我好奇名稱而已好那我們請這個我們經貿談判辦公室上來好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9099.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9123.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
部長您也留步我不確定會不會有您的這個沒關係您留步好這個我今天要問的是關於我們副總統蕭美琴日前接受加拿大的廣播公司專訪的時候提到川普政府在美國的投資不只有台積電還包含整個台積電的生態系請問這個部分我們在行政院的談判辦公室清不清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9125.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9140.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我們都有看到相關的報導都有都有follow我不要問的是報導我是在說過程當中你們清不清楚就是我們在談判的時候呢有談到包含是台積電的生態系都納入在台美的這個關稅談判當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9143.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9171.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
是知道清楚你的是是什麼意思向委員報告就是說有關於這件事情的說明就是說這個是因為台灣的科學園區的模式在全球獨有加上產業園區工業區等所以其他國家難以複製這樣的園區規劃所以我國是願意與美國透過政府與政府的合作來創造有利產業聚落形成的環境這樣可以降低我國企業單打獨鬥的高成本跟風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9173.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9177.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
因此我們提議導入過去產業記錄以及科學園區的經驗我們會以國家跟產業利益來跟美國談判所以這個具體的做法是什麼因為你講到園區具體的做法是什麼是說在台灣的這些園區由美國這裡來投資還是說我們要去美國投資園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9195.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9217.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
跟委員報告這個所謂的台灣模式是在跟由台灣佈局全球總體策略下它包括幾個重點第一個就是它是由企業來自主規劃到美國來進行產業投資第二個是政府來整合所以是台灣到美國去投資但是由政府來整合政府來整合然後並且增加對業者的金融支持那第三點是要透過台美政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9218.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9226.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
與政府就是居途居的合作來為我國企業打造有利的產業環境來協助相關產業在美國進行有利的國際布局那請問一下部長在這個部分外交部有沒有角色呢有啊 什麼樣的角色什麼樣具體的其實我們在推動所謂的榮邦計畫就有一個智慧科技園區海外示範計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9239.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9252.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那所以我們榮邦計畫這一次我也知道說我們在這個預算編列的部分增加了68億嘛對不對那在這68億的預算當中是不是您剛講的協助剛才我們經貿辦講的這個所謂的園區計畫那也是在這個68億其中呢相關的資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9265.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9287.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
比如說我們這個台灣Tower就是中油的地那被收回也可惜我們把它變成一個其實就是一個單一服務窗口跨這個就是台美之間的這個服務可以整合在這裡那我們譬如說巴拉圭我們以前我們就是把一個廢棄的工業區開發成台巴智慧科學園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9288.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9314.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
對 我問的是台美的部分不是說我們今天的主題是台美我本來是針對邦交國可是現在也推動譬如說台美以外像菲律賓像中東歐的國家我想要問的是我們這個榮邦計畫裡面的68億當中有哪一些部分有多少的經費是在剛才經貿辦講到的跟外交部所共同合作的有關台美談判這些科學園區相關的協助經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9315.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9327.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
目前並沒有特別分對美國因為我們在啟動這個榮邦計畫是針對我們邦交國還有理念相近國家但是因為現在台美的經貿的談判有出現科學園區我跟委員報告比如說像最近電電工會有公佈有沒有要在墨西哥設這個TIMA科技園區就是我們跟他們討論因為我們要公私協力有些國家由企業來主導 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9343.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9366.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
然後他們本來就要投資我們之後審查預算的時候會一個一個問您因為我要問今天就是在談台美關稅的議題您剛上來的時候我第一個問題問您的就是說在這個我剛講的這個半導體的部分這個我們外交部有沒有角色您告訴我說有然後我就問說有沒有一些具體的預算等等的就是具體的協助方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9367.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9391.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那你具體有協助方向的話他當然也會有預算所以我才問說我們具體對於剛才所說的這個所謂的半導體投資的部分外交部具體的協助方向跟方式是什麼那運用到哪一些資源是 我剛剛講融幫計畫我們要設定對象邦交國跟理念相近國家兩大類理念相近國家本來是針對中東歐跟菲律賓等 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9392.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9406.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
但現在包括美日歐其實很多的國家都適合我們去跟他一起合作這裡面涉及到就是科技資金跟人才三大塊那這個政策對美方面我們並沒有外交部另外特別編列預算因為當時在形成榮邦計畫的時候你都放在裡面了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9410.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9431.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
但是因為政策的主張的內容是相近就是有關於智慧科技園區海外示範計畫那這裡面會有一個交集所以我想要請問一下剛才你講的這個美國的部分因為你講說嘛榮邦計畫除了這些原本我們一些邦交國理念相近的之外美日的部分也會把它納進來嘛因為也跟我們理念每日歐都有嘛那我特別詢問的 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9433.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9458.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
我特別詢問的就是說在這個榮邦計畫的這個整體的預算規劃當中對於美國談判就是對於美國投資或是美國相關協助的部分包含是園區的部分它佔了多少的比例呢是分開的是多少呢但是因為現在因為台美的談判裡面有出現了所謂的台灣模式會有科學園區所以我們的榮邦計畫同樣這個模式也可以蓋美國啊來這個怎麼樣去 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9462.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9483.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
結合成一個台灣模式所以並不是說我們一開始針對美國的這個不用去編預算不是這是分開的我知道但我要問說因為它包含在裡面所以它包含在裡面它可以包含它不是它可以包含你預算都要編了那你一定已經有一個想法跟規劃了那我問的是說對於美國的對於你剛剛講的園區的這一部分來說的話是佔這個榮邦計畫裡面的多少經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9492.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9505.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
這麼簡單的問題沒有在這方面另外別列預算只有這個政策就是行政院核定的龍邦計畫我們的對象國家那不是有包含美國嗎那因為我們本身也在推動智慧科技園區海外示範計畫同樣的不限對象的話理念相近國家裡面也可以適用不是也可以 你一定是那也可以的意思是也可能沒有行政院包括經貿談判辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9519.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9524.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
這個我們外交部會是參與但是對美的這一個關稅啦或者是232條款或是投資或供應鏈的合作這個還是整個行政院跨部會的事情但是如果他們需要動用資金的話在外交部來講應該不會來自於我們這邊的資金啦那你剛剛不講說科學園區等等的投資的部分我剛剛已經在講那個有一點時間也就是說我們要推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9543.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9555.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
智慧科技研究院海外計畫我們已經跟以大帶小公司協力軟硬兼施這個內外循環有四個政策設計硬的部分是誰要硬我再跟委員詳細報告我們最近怎麼樣在一些友邦推動軟硬兼施硬的部分軟體跟硬體啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9562.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9573.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
我們不要只是賣硬體的製造我們要軟體的服務系統整合老半天倒數我說是軟體跟硬體我實在是覺得因為這樣子口訣我多問了兩句之後就變成就從那個軟硬間是突然變軟體跟硬體那不講這麼多總之我想是這樣子的因為先前剛剛講的這個生態系赴美的事情那國發會說事前都不知情我最後詢問一下外交部事前是知情的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9591.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9618.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我是想說應該是我們供應鏈的擴展沒有啦 我問的就是蕭美琴說的可以有台美聯合艦隊包括整個晶片生態系的這件事情而已你不要跟我講別的我就是專門問你這個部分就是蕭美琴副總統說台灣投資美國包含整個晶片生態系因為我要告訴你喔國發會他們說事前不知道喔那您事前是知道的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9619.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9639.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
用什麼名詞形容是另外一回事就是生態系啊這整個台美關係我是很清楚的生態系赴美台積電生態系赴美這件事情嗎我的理解是半導體供應鏈的拓展這不是移植這個是我們成功的模式因為我時間不夠了還有其他人要質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9640.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9663.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
所以我簡單講我覺得你們就是事前不知情啊因為你這個供應鏈整體的這個說法那大家都知道啊那如果說大家都知道的東西蕭美琴副總統要提出來那又怎麼會變成是一個新聞國發會會怎麼說事前不知情呢所以不知情以後就告訴我說不知情就好了就不用另外再講說哎呀還有什麼其他的東西我的概念跟理解那時間有限謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9667.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9670.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
好 接下來請賴會委員委員上台質詢謝謝主席有請行政院經貿談判辦公室那個徐那個主秘書還有我們農業部主秘還有農糧署主秘還有我們動植物防疫檢驗檢驗署好 請上列人員上台備詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9697.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9726.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那個我在這裡要先請教那個徐竹蜜就執密徐竹蜜就是說針對的在這一次農產品的零關稅還有就是農產品的零關稅還有他在畜牧產業裡頭標示的就是說不得標示那個肉品的進口來源這兩個議題先跟你做一個探討因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9726.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9750.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
台南就是稻米跟畜牧的一個重鎮那這一次稻米關稅跟糧食安全當然我們希望一定會守住國家的底線因為看起來就是說這整個談判的過程裡頭我們是把晶片跟工業放在優先那是不是會犧牲掉農業尤其是稻米的一個產業那我們還會維持一個公糧的制度嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9751.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9765.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
向委員報告就是說我們在談判的過程中一向是都是秉持四大的原則就是國家利益產業利益國民健康以及糧食安全來跟美方來進行談判那美方也知道我們這四大的原則所以你還是繼續會就是公糧繼續收購嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9768.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9791.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
有關於整個談判的細節因為談判還在進行當中所以還是等到談判結束的時候有沒有這樣的一個準備呢還是公糧你還是會維持就是說是一個那個26塊然後就是虎島收購的價錢還是維持在24.5塊錢就是說起碼這個數字是不會改變太大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9792.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9817.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我們有討論過啦 不能講因為這個就已經牽涉到協商的細節你要知道這個制度在台灣二十幾年都沒有改變你不能讓台灣民因為關稅配額的一個制度其實大家這些道龍都是在喘息中求生存 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9818.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9844.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
所以尤其是中南部很多的一個農地他們還是用來種稻米的所以我在這裡要特別跟徐主秘做這樣的一個報告你要特別的關心還有豬肉的一個關稅跟產業的一個轉型怎麼樣穩定豬農的一個信心我在這裡請教農業部就是林主秘委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9846.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9874.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
我想針對的就是說台中無期一個三百場是用用這個等於是他是吃那個廚藝的就是吃飯的那就是我們在這裡頭我們10月10號發現有狀況了10月14號那就是說這個豬場爆上去了那台中台中的那個動保處來檢驗因為他說在治療中所以他沒有採驗檢體 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9875.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9893.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
到了昨天 昨天為止他講說死了117頭其中有一頭我們檢驗出就是非洲豬瘟核酸 核酸陽性所謂核酸陽性就表示已經是傳染到了 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9894.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9922.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
可是祖密一隻蝶子75天它的病毒還是存在的尤其是非洲豬瘟它是一個大顆粒的一個病毒你們現在剛才在記者會上面做了五項五項的一個防疫的一個措施是不是有沒有掌握到就是說這個豬場在範圍5公里內有沒有其他的一個豬場也是受感染啊你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9923.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9936.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
跟委員報告一下就如同剛剛委員所講的我們農業部的收益研究所昨天早上11點44分收到台中東寶處送來的這個檢體那我們在昨天的下午6點 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9938.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9951.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
在用PCR驗出這個就是確定的嘛你核酸就是確定的嘛我跟你講你CPR確定了以後你有沒有全國現在開始全國少一次我跟你說祖密我是獸醫我對這個問題我非常非常的緊張你要知道我們已經20年20年完全就是非洲豬瘟已經那個都是節炎體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9962.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9983.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那你這麼大的一個問題這個考驗到我們農業部在這個危機處理上的一個真正的一個應變的應變的一個方式啊不然你會害死這這麼大龐大的一個那個豬籠啊好來繼續我要知道五公里內有沒有其他的豬場目前是三公里三公里有幾場 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9985.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9999.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
不過我還是要跟委員報告雖然我們昨天晚上部長有召開緊急的會議但是因為今天早上七點半有一個專家諮詢小組的會議那剛剛十點是記者會現在目前這個當下是中央應變中心的這個會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10000.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10019.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
所以這一些會因為我一早就來這邊所以我們便沒有參加所以對於相關的應變措施有沒有掌握就是說在這個租場周邊有沒有租場這個是非常重要的你現在全國禁運五天這個是合理的就是我們要注意到生物安全你現在就是不能退出你知道嗎你如果退出的時候你就全國都死了這個是非常嚴重的那到底他的周邊有沒有租場啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10027.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10042.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
你有沒有掌控昨天的報告是有幾場昨天的報告送來的時候是三公里內是有兩場但是其中的一場是早就停養了所以另外那一場規模多大 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10045.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10054.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
就是我剛剛講的這些都是在今天早上的專家會議討論因為我沒有出席那個專家會議你是主任秘書耶我沒有辦法在這邊做回答這個很簡單的這些基礎的 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10059.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10086.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
注意生物安全 完全完全就是把它牽住了聽起來因為是吃噴的聽說這一個病毒跟越南的病毒其實是相近的所以這個防疫有破口可是這個防疫破口如果我們可以把它防堵起來的話這個就等於是一個空襲警報所以應該要非常非常的謹慎 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10087.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10113.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
是 我們也馬上會在台中設立一個這個前進的應變所我們杜次長會下去當任這個指揮官是 好 謝謝那我想在這針對的就是美國關稅跟我國出口供應鏈的一個支持我們看到了190億裡頭完全都沒有畜牧產業這個也是要請你們另外再來報告好不好是 謝謝 謝謝主席好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10117.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10123.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
好 接下來請何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳委員不在 請林德福委員上台質詢謝謝 謝謝主席是不是請那個林部長 請林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10137.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10147.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
還有經貿辦公室等一下那個徐秘書還有經濟部次長何次長謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10152.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10176.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
部長 我請教你因為美國媒體報導這個國務院在10月7號發布最新的旅遊建議就是針對馬爾地夫發布第二級的提高警戒這個旅遊警示並點名當地存在恐怖的攻擊的風險來提醒計畫前往的旅客務必要提高警覺 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10177.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10200.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
對這樣的事情 那我國外交部對馬爾地夫的旅遊警示能維持第一級灰色的提醒官方說明並未提到這個恐怖攻擊的威脅只有提醒國人從事水上活動要注意安全那我請問部長為何沒有提高馬爾地夫的旅遊警示呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10203.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10223.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那個報告委員我會進一步來瞭解那當然同仁有給我一些說明那當然如果美國國務院已經有列為旅遊局勢而且人家有正式公布十月七號但是我們這裡還是停留在過去我希望這個很重要因為國人到我們還有丟的還不少 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10224.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10238.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
一定要警示他們讓他有心有戒備近日有媒體提問說美國總統川普是否會為了以習近平達成協議而犧牲美國對台灣的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10240.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10251.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
川普總統則沒有正面的回覆提問今年6月民主基金會民調指出67%的民眾認為美國是將台灣作為與中國對抗的籌碼而且66%的民眾 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10260.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10281.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
三分之二認為美國總統川普會為了美國的利益出賣台灣那本席也提醒外交部有責任要捍衛中華民國的利益民眾對美國的擔憂本席也希望外交部不要忽視要認真的看待部長你有沒有想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10283.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10285.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
謝謝我覺得委員所言甚是我們自己跟美國的關係當然有台灣關係法跟六項保證川普這個總統在就職之後也確實有對這個包括台海的和平穩定 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10302.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10330.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
一再的就是在聲明中包括多國的G7來去呈現但是有涉及到就是說美中關係會不會跟台灣有關我們是密切注意那也都是持續溝通那我們也相信當然我們台灣也要就是我們跟美國的關係怎麼去加強是一個面向那個部長川普總統他是生意人 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10331.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10359.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
他是以他自己的利益作為導向因為你從種種他這一段時間的關稅他的作為為什麼韓國日本可以那我們什麼都答應人家我們什麼都沒有關稅20%再疊加講實在話我們的談判代表當然很辛苦但是所談出這樣的結果我們很多傳統產業幾乎沒有辦法生存 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10360.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10386.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
水五金還有包括工具機包括自行車業包括蝴蝶籃等等那些產業慘慘慘啦站在人民的立場來看這個你現在多少人失業我希望我們關稅的談判代表硬一點啦不要什麼都軟趴趴的人家講義我們作善啦那個部長其實很多人一直經常跟我提啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10387.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10415.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
美國 我們台灣會講一句話說他會保庇你老邸 不會保庇你新家這個就是現實的存在那如果對美關稅的談判最終的結果比主要競爭對手的關稅來得多等於是讓國內這些廠商在起跑點上就輸給日本 韓國的廠商本期是希望說台美關稅談判能夠爭取到台灣商品 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10416.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10444.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
的適用百分之十五不疊加的對等關稅的特例近日媒體報導說台美關稅傳出有望於美規車進口零關稅全面開放美租來達成取消疊加的稅率剛剛有委員也特別提到其實那個是美租我們都知道過去民進黨執政民進黨在野的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10447.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10459.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
都嚴格的要求 現在要把美豬弄進來那我請問部長 經貿談判代表公司那個代表 你們有什麼看法我請經貿談判 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10462.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10477.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
是向委員報告那這個有關於這個我們跟美國美方的談判的話我們政府都是在秉持著四大的原則就是國家利益產業利益國民健康跟糧食安全來跟來跟美方進行進行交涉對啊但是把在眼前的不是這個樣子啊對不對而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10480.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10489.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
已經談那麼長那麼久人家美國跟日本韓國跟日本都已經確定我們還在那裡就談談談談像韓國跟日本他們是在七月底確定我們之所以還在繼續談判的原因就是因為我們在爭取232的關稅的優惠待遇美國對半導體的調查都還在進行當中台美還在談供應鏈合作的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10507.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10534.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
所以目前還在但是已經從32%減到20%一個暫時性的距離32%減到20%20%比人家的15%不加疊加落差太大那些產業根本就沒有辦法生存嘛是 所以我們會繼續努力是 謝謝委員指教我們會繼續努力我是希望站在自己照顧我們產業的立場該怎麼做 怎麼要求不是一味著人家講義我們作善啦因為本來還有要問那就算了 下次再問 謝謝好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10540.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10543.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
謝謝接下來請黃國昌委員上台質詢謝謝主席 麻煩請部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10566.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10590.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
部長好 我去上一次質詢的議題韓國人民主日報說緊急戒嚴的時候他們有個司令官來台灣尋求諮詢尋求支持 然後我問你們有沒有抗議是不是有要求他更正你們上次跟我說說有要求他更正然後更正以後會通知我這個是我們上一次質詢的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10592.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10615.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那你們後續回覆我的東西我一定會追啊你們說有更正那問題是什麼問題是根本沒人家根本沒有理你啊你怎麼會跟我說有更正從頭到尾沒有更正啊現在網站上面的日期跟內容一模一樣從你們回覆我到現在到目前為止沒有任何更動 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10616.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10632.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
人家根本沒有更正啊你們怎麼會跟我說人家有更正我看不懂啊現在是在騙我嗎騙我會有什麼幫助嗎對我們台灣的信譽造成這麼大的傷害你們說有更正是在自我欺騙嗎來 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10636.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10659.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
因為我剛剛看到委員的質詢是當時曾正式回應有關於更正就是說以總統府的那個說明為主但是委員剛剛提到是說我們要更正是要去駐韓的代表處要表達對這件事沒有啦 我再跟你講一次過程上一次我問他的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10660.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10686.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
說有更正他說答應要錄出再繼續追蹤我說一出更正消息可以把副本給我嗎陳明琦說沒問題結果回覆了我以後我一定去double check我double check的結果就是根本沒有更正你左手邊我又紅框框起來的是你們外交部回覆給我的內容右手邊是我查證的結果根本就沒有更正啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10687.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10708.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
如果委員如您所說我們有去交涉更正沒有更正也應該要回答委員如果我們去交涉而要求他更正有更正也要來說明所以我會在這件事情後續去追蹤這是上一趴的進度上一趴陳明祺就是這樣跟我講的我現在的問題是根本沒更正 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10710.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10731.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
騙我說有事實上就沒有沒關係啦我不要一直在這個問題上面打轉部長也知道我的風格我一定追到底的啦回去以後請部長徹查瞭解這到底是怎麼回事是在自欺欺人還是在欺騙我還是覺得用混的就可以過去一個禮拜之內以書面回覆我可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10732.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10756.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
可以好 謝謝下一個問題我現在我們其實都支持中華民國台灣對外的外交那我們看過去從2016年以來我們邦交國的數量是越來越少當然這是中共的打壓全台灣人都知道中共打壓也不是現在開始中共打壓台灣很久了 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10757.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10781.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
過去四五十年來中共都在打壓台灣2016年以後可能打壓的力道比較強所以讓我們邦交國的數字從21個掉到現在剩12個今年我看了你們外交部的預算有援外的預算援外的預算該怎麼花花在什麼目的用途上面這個我們到審預算的時候好好講 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10782.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10787.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
但是我光從整個據實際上面的總數上面來看2016年 員外的經費是90億 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10792.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10797.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
然後到了2019年大概都是90幾億到2020年開始變成100多億到2025年的時候是118億結果到2026年的時候暴漲到202億這樣子的經費這樣子的預算 部長你要交給國人的成績單是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10816.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10832.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
我跟委員報告我們當然把12個邦交國收好以外很多理念相近的國家像中東歐包括菲律賓我們也要加強你的意思是說要更多錢12個邦交國才能收好嗎我們只有邦交國其實現在的任務業務也比以前多以外我們再擴展 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10833.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10853.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
非邦交國但事實上它的重要性也還邦交國是譬如說我剛剛講菲律賓那榮邦計畫我們相對來講其實立法院也通過對ODA希望要增加但我是有計畫的不是說我是增加了那麼多預算而是要做什麼事情我想這個部分我跟我相信你一定有計畫沒關係 我們審預算的時候再慢慢來看因為我們大的Picture |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10858.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10880.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
總是要讓台灣人民知道嘛台灣人民很關心嘛希望台灣在國際社會發光發亮嘛我們支持我們的外交嘛台灣人也都用稅收去讓我們的官員去做外交總是希望看到成績嘛從2016年的90幾億現在到2026年暴漲到200多億我們總是要告訴國人說我們打算 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10881.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10904.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
要交出什麼成績單才能夠正當化這個錢啊那要不然我如果給200多億跟給90億交出來的成績單一樣那大家就會問啊中間的100多億跑到哪裡去啊這就延續到了我之前一直跟部長所強調的我反對金錢外交啊我反對金錢外交啊我反對金錢外交啊我講過很多次啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10905.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10921.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
當初民進黨政府也說要用價值外交嘛啊價值外交後來看價值外交恐怕沒有辦法合理的說明外交部的一些具體作為所以現在呢用了一個新的名詞叫總和外交了價值外交不談了啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10922.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10947.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
因為蔡英文總統在講的價值外交我看了很多次嘛現在有個新名詞 總和外交總和外交裡面有一個部分叫價值外交我幫部長回答了啦對啦 總和外交裡面有價值外交那當然還有一些其他的東西嘛然後其他的東西當然就會涉及到錢嘛來 我們來看一下錢卡貝 獨裁者的金庫這個是我那個時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10949.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10972.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
在吹哨者協會跟國際的反貪腐組織OCCRP我們合作的企劃我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我一毛錢都沒有跟政府拿我們跟國際的反貪腐組織一起關心台灣作為最大股東的中美洲銀行錢跑到哪裡去了是真的去輔助弱勢小孩婦女 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10973.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10986.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
還是跑去被胡搞瞎搞變成所謂獨裁者的金庫這個標題其實不是我想的這個標題是OCCRP用英文表示 翻成中文當然 因為這個樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10989.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11015.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
之前的總裁也下台了嘛直接被轟下台嘛最近新的總裁來做一些改革你看我功課做得多好新的總裁來你還跟他合照我都準備好了我就知道你會這樣講所以我知道你跟新的總裁有碰面嘛然後他們新的辦事處搬到天母使館特區嘛你也有去嘛剩下不到一成耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11017.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11029.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我說也讓他租金改革啦你說委員講的他內部外部都要進行改革你知不知道卡貝本來在台灣這邊的辦事處在哪101啊101嘛 你知不知道那時候裝潢花多少錢我們現在就是把它改 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11034.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11050.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
換到地方我們那個天母那個地方租金現在就剩下十分之一而且就近跟我們卡貝的國家包括瓜地馬拉貝里斯可以合處辦公大家一起合作我同意委員之前的這些這個指導的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11051.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11078.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那我們就是 再來要善用我們在卡貝還有包括歐銀 亞銀的我們的這一些資金要用於我們的榮邦計畫 這個是一個第二個就是要 改革要大幅度的進行這樣子會比較快啦2021年 在101租了一大片辦公室裝潢花上千萬 裝潢花三千萬年租金七百萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11079.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11104.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
那個時候我跟他們一起在調查的時候我看到卡貝裡面的這個內臟我看了臉都綠了台灣是第一大股東啊如果不關我們台灣的事情我管這些中美洲國家他們愛怎麼亂花錢他們家的事啊我關心的是台灣是第一大股東啊台灣人有沒有被當盤子啊錢拿去中美洲銀行給他們這樣胡搞瞎搞 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11105.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11128.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我看了裝潢費高達上千萬年租金七百萬我的老天啊在台灣是有什麼特殊重要的任務任務很龐雜會搞成這個樣子啊那但是我也不是看紙上的資料以後就在那邊腦補篇故事啊我那時候做了什麼事那個時候一定是實地考察實地考察跑去Cafe 101的大樓看 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11130.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11149.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
哇 裡面真的是氣派豪華裝潢非常的好啊但是有個特色我跟部長報告叫做空蕩蕩很氣派的辦公室裝潢非常的好加上司機總共多少人用那個辦公室空間部長你知不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11152.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11166.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
五個人五個人 搶運獎搞起來五個人在101大樓好氣派的辦公室裡面都沒有人是這樣在花台灣納稅人的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11167.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11195.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
當初101開幕的時候我們也有大官去拍照啦就像你這一次到天母特區跟他拍照一樣我們那個是合宿辦公啦比較便宜啦是啦 所以我就肯定你嘛我肯定你的改革嘛上一次鋪張浪費嘛幫我們當盤子嘛現在終於發現只要十分之一的租金啊這個就是我要跟部長交換了這個就是監督的價值這個就是監督的力量不要再說齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11197.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11221.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
不給你們錢去揮霍就是不支持台灣的外交中美洲銀行對台灣很重要有國際重要的戰略位置不給他錢就是不支持台灣的外交我們當然支持台灣的外交我不支持的是什麼我不支持的是這樣子胡搞瞎搞所以接下來在預算審查的時候我們一定就事論事好好進行實質的審查謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11227.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11247.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
接下來請楊瓊英委員 楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員不在請羅明財 羅明財 羅明財委員不在請高金素美 高金素美 高金素美委員不在請洪孟凱 洪孟凱 洪孟凱委員不在請蘇清泉 蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員不在請林倩琦 林倩琦 林倩琦委員不在請林益君委員上台質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11261.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11267.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
謝謝主席有請經貿談判辦公室執命和經濟部次長請經貿辦還有經濟部次長就備巡台謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11279.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11305.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
這個月月初十月三號媒體有報導台美關稅談判進入了深水區在五輪的磋商中台灣的速度的向美國提出避免雙重課稅上面協定行政院的副院長曾立軍在月初也在記者會上面說明第五輪的磋商台美共購的產業聚落有譜了但因為台灣的模式與日韓還有歐盟還有直接投資美國不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11307.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11322.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
問題是在這第五輪的磋商雖然已經落幕了但台美雙方的供應鏈有關的台灣聚落的模式的合作還有最重要的232條款調查這可是涉及我們台灣最重要的護國神山半導體的存活的兩大議題現在有共識了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11326.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11336.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
跟委員報告 現在台美雙方仍然在持續密切的聯繫當中在談有關包括半導體產業在內的供應鏈合作方案所以到現在還沒有談好 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11340.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11361.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那在台灣模式這個部分的話我方是在這個跟由台灣佈局全球的總體戰略底下提出台灣的模式那包括第一個是由企業自主規劃到美國進行產業投資第二個是由政府來整合民間投資佈局增加對業者的金融支持第三個是透過台美政府G2G的合作來為我國企業打造有利的產業環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11363.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11378.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以現在就是談判辦公室就是說副院長提到的台灣聚落模式這個方案是有確定但是現在是最新的談判的進度是美國到底有沒有正面回復台灣提出的方案呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11380.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11406.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
美方對我們的提案是感到興趣的那雙方也都是在這個美方對我方提出的台灣模式是有高度的興趣的那台美還是在就這個供應鏈的合作方案在跟美國商務部持續的磋商當中那我再請問一下就台灣聚落的模式真的可以為台灣創造出有別於日韓超過數千億美元的投資的心路嗎那要如何創造呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11409.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11427.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
是 向委員報告就是說有關於這個我們的台灣模式它的原由一開始是因為我們台灣的這個科學園區的經營模式它是全球獨有的再加上我們台灣的許多的產業園區這個工業區等等那其他國家難以複製這樣園區的規劃籌設還有經營模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11431.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11458.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
我國願意跟美國用透過政府跟政府的合作來創造有利產業聚落來形成的環境這樣也可以降低我國企業去單打獨鬥的這個成本跟風險所以我們是導入過去產業聚落以及科學園區的經驗來在這個談判裡面那耕留台灣還是我們談判的最高指導原則那我們的高科技產業的垂直供應鏈必須依照耕留台灣的原則來做全球佈局不是將產業外移 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11460.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11479.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
所以其實我為什麼今天要提出這樣的疑問和擔憂是因為目前關於台灣聚落這整個模式有一些學者上面非常的優先的指出台積電在台灣能夠高效的運作是靠的是緊密的聚落上中下游的供應鏈從設備材料商和客戶的聚落的集中才能在機器故障的時候馬上隨時的支援但問題是美國的土地範圍非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11489.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11493.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
產業環境分散根本沒有辦法在24小時內馬上隨時的配合經營的風險在台灣其實是高出許多的另外美國的勞動制度對工時其實他們要求的非常非常的嚴格台灣常見的責任制加班在美國可能會變成是強迫勞動 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11507.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11519.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
所以這樣會不會增加台商未來到美國投資帶來的訴訟的成本還有就是另外一個挑戰是投資的規模上面的落差美方是期望我們台灣在美建立有50%的產能估計大約要5000億美元的投資但台積電目前承諾投資只有1650億的美元雙方的差距非常的大即便建立了產業的聚落如何才能達到美方滿意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11536.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11537.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
規模呢不要到時候又犧牲了半導體然後讓台灣的產業被迫外移讓專業的人才外流那請問經濟部你怎麼樣看待這個擔憂和意見呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11548.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11572.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
跟文報告那個台灣的這個科學園區或是我們產業園區發展的經驗它是一個群聚的一個大家供應鏈合作的一個結果那我想現在台積電已經宣布1650億的投資案未來它會有這個6個這個晶圓廠在會在這個美國所以也就是說需要這個有台積電的相關的供應鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11573.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11598.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
必須要在旁邊來服務這個台積電的這個相關的一些運作這個也是我們台灣科學園區成功的這個經驗所以未來可能會面臨到剛剛委員提到的這些問題包括勞動力的這些問題或是說一些相關的這個美國相關的一些這個稅的這些問題的部分我想這個就是我們在跟美方在談判的過程裡面我們就是希望說政府對政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11599.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11619.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
提供一些行政協力 協助的這個部分我想美方他們也有把這個部分列入考量希望千萬不要發生台灣產業和人才被迫到美國發展然後一定會衝擊到台灣就業的市場和經濟發展所以我還是希望我們還是要以台灣的利益為優先考量 是 當然那請執密先回座 繼續我要請教經濟部的次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11627.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11631.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
次長因為本席比較關心的是台美關稅中有關提高藥品關稅對我國的影響所以我想請教一下次長美國10月1號開始針對品牌和專利的藥品徵收100%的關稅藥品公司在美國設廠包括已經動工了還有正在施工的這些製藥廠才可以免除關稅那次長你知不知道美國其實是我國西藥製劑的最大的出口國 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11651.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11655.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
因為在2024年的生技產業白皮書上面顯示2023年從台灣出口到美國的藥品的金額就高達新台幣185億那請問次長就經濟部的了解和掌握台灣的藥品是否可能會因為這樣被科徵高關稅而失去了整個競爭的優勢 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11670.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11685.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
根本報告因為這個都還在美方都還在調查當中那他到底會課徵多少這個稅率這個我想等到我們這個看美國那邊這個評估了這個結果我們再來跟國人再做報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11686.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11688.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
所以其實像我認為政府應該每年出口美國上百億的國產的西藥其實要開始尋求外銷的市場像國產學名藥這些外銷可以協助本土廠商轉銷像東亞的東南亞的西南向的國家還是一些歐洲國家轉移市場還有烏俄戰爭之後全球其實那個時候發現一個很 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11707.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11710.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
嚴重的問題就是原料的整個供應的問題所以現在各國都在積極發展本土學民藥的產業所以也希望這一次可以政府的政策可以來扶植國內的學民藥的發展所以我想針對這方面次長目前國內藥廠的這些衝擊有影響嗎你有了解嗎還是你們有沒有研議怎麼樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11730.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11757.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
措施跟委員報告這一次我們在這個韌性特別預算裡面本來就編列這個經濟部的部分大概有460億當然就是會協助這些受衝擊的這個產業來提升競爭力然後分散市場那我們也當然協助我們國內的這個生技醫藥這些產業往這個不管在東南亞或是說我們知道東北亞甚至到日本或是歐洲的地區我們去做一些這個展會 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11760.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11763.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
還有一些媒合會方面的一些活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11765.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11789.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
好所以還有一點就是比較也比較重要的就是藥證的取得時間是否有沒有考量整個鬆綁相關的法規可以協助藥界度過台美關稅貿易戰的這個欄關呢是這個可以跟衛福部共同研議討論嗎是這個部分我們也會來協助我們的那個國內的產業來做取證這個部分就法規的部分我們也可以來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11790.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11794.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
好謝謝那次長請回座我有請外交部林佳龍部長請部長喂好 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11804.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11807.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
部長好自從川普上任之後其實我們喊出美國再次偉大的口號核心戰略就是美國製造而美國利益優先本席有注意到美國媒體紐約時報在8月的時候美台的關係都是緊張中的標題有指出美國權益對台灣出口的半導體徵收了破壞性的關稅的可能性對台灣來說更大的威脅都是逼近的 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11830.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11835.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
那這是否表示台美的關係根本不是史上最好的呢因為紐約時報上面認為現在是關係異常的緊張因為我想請問部長一下就是你有沒有覺得美國對台灣的關係的態度非常的奇怪因為一方面是 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11845.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11847.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
說要保護台灣但是又要台灣拚命的編列了整個國防預算跟美國去買武器然後一方面又希望台灣把經濟命脈的產業全部移到美國去讓人感覺台灣好像無形中都要被美國掏空了那我只想說請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11863.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11865.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
你認為美國對台灣真正的態度的用意到底是什麼美國對台灣這萬所謂的他們所說說的好朋友是真心的還是虛情的還是假意的因為本席認為我國最需要的是美國對台政策的一致性否則川普政府一方面在強調台灣戰略的重要性 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11883.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11894.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
一方面又對台灣徵收高關稅而且最主要是把我們台灣最重要的產業護國神山我們都要雙手奉上了請問這樣的做法真的是讓我非常的擔憂所以我想請教部長你對這個有什麼看法報告委員如果從國際政治的本質就是實力所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11908.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11933.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
才能有和平就是說其實所謂台美關係好不好我們要從台灣的國家利益跟美國國家利益以及之間的交集那我們要分層次來看去找出交集比如說台美之間有一個最底層的都是民主國家都有民意 都有選舉所以彼此國民互相的認同包括就是我們對於這些民主自由人權的價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11934.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11960.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
這個是很深層很重要的並不是純粹就是現實的交易而已這個是一層第二個就是安全因為當一個國家沒有了這個安全包括主權被併吞那你都沒有什麼國家利益所以台美之間在安全上是有很大的交集都面對到中國的擴張要挑戰以規則為基礎的國際秩序第三個我想很重要就是我們的現實的利益在於經濟繁榮能不能帶來人民的福祉 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11963.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11976.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
這個如果找出交集那利益一致自然關係就很好可是人的關係不是只有利益就像我們彼此之間的關係我們講如果說你愛不愛一個人是愛情 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11979.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11998.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
愛情很重要 麵包也很重要因為你要吃得飽我們才能夠長期立志所以台美的關係要有愛情也要有麵包愛情就是理念相近這一個就是建立在民主法制的基礎另外一個就是我們利益一致那利益是要我們主動去找出跟美國一致的利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11999.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12014.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
所以我們在談很多問題的時候一定要兩面都談要有同理心要換位思考去找出台美之間共同的利益然後堅持在我們共同的價值觀之上但是照我來看美國都是利益啊因為他需要台灣PB的國防預戰啊其實他有他的長年的自由主義價值觀價值觀是很重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12023.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12045.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
比如說美國的參眾兩院其實美國現在不是川普總統一個人決定外交政策是各種利害關係的競爭對外交政策的決定所以這個時候你看有些訊號感覺上有一點好像不一致可是如果你跑好地去把它分析其實台美的關係是好的那我們還要更好那我們要避免它不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12046.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12073.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
那因為中國是一個崛起的這個霸權他挑戰現有秩序那也挑戰到台灣也挑戰到美國啊所以我們怎麼樣跟美國有一個總和外交跟三鏈戰略就是在價值外交同盟外交跟經濟外交跟他鏈結在一起那符合彼此的利益這樣子外交關係就會很好好啦時間到了我還是期許外交部更加努力和美國建立更好的外交關係好我們會來努力謝謝謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12081.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12109.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
接下來請吳思瑤 吳思瑤委員不在我們今天已登記質詢的委員除不在場外均已發言完畢報告及詢答結束本日會議有王定宇委員沈伯陽委員 楊瓊英委員林倩琦委員提出書面質詢請列入記錄並刊登公報委員書面及口頭質詢未及答覆部分或要求補充資料者請相關機關已書面於兩週內答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12110.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12115.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
委員有約定期限者從期鎖定本日會議到此結束散會謝謝 |