| IVOD_ID |
16974 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16974 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-7 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
7 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T08:35:20+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T10:55:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:19:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea8a46bec1ad1976d3d697183759547eb60aa126c40303dc276fc90b4b3a95d8f15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請內政部就「替代役訓練及備役召集運用」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
二、審查「替代役實施條例」：(一)委員王美惠等18人擬具「替代役實施條例第五十九條條文修正草案」案。(二)委員羅美玲等18人擬具「替代役實施條例增訂第五十五條之五條文草案」案。(三)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「替代役實施條例第五十五條之一條文修正草案」案。
【10月22日及23日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:35:20 - 10:55:00 |
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228.733 |
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237.861 |
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嗯嗯嗯 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1503.833 |
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1503.853 |
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好 |
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1530.612 |
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1537.766 |
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我們將組密報告出席人數報告委員會出席委員10人已足法定人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1540.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1563.386 |
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現在我們要開會進行報告屬行家先讀上次會議的議事錄立法院第十一屆第四會期內政委員會第六次全體委員會議議事錄時間一百十四年十月二十日星期一上午九時至十時五十七分地點紅樓二零二會議室出席委員蘇巧慧委員等十四人列席委員葛如君委員等十三人 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1563.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1578.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
列席官員內政部常務次長吳唐安暨相關人員國家安全局特種勤務指揮中心執行長暨相關人員法務部檢察司司長張曉雯暨相關人員主席王昭吉委員美會報告事項依選讀上次會議事錄決定確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1579.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1595.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
二邀请内政部警政署署长国家安全局法务部针对当前当前全国治安状况与如何强化总统副总统中央政府机关首长及特定人士安全警卫作业避免境外失利或协力者影响国家安全进行专题报告并被质询 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1596.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1624.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
内政部常务次长吴唐安报告委员黄杰等15人质询分别由内政部常务次长吴唐安及相关人员国家安全局特种勤务指挥中心执行长答复说明决定一登记发言委员除不在场者外其余均已发言完毕询答结束二委员丁学忠高金苏梅苏巧会吴启明及林楚英等5人所提书面质询列入记录刊登公报三书面质询及未及答复部分请相关机关于一周内另以书面答复并复制本会宣读完毕 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1627.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1655.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
因為在庭的本委員不夠三個 我們意思是 暫時不必確定我們繼續來進行本署的議定 請先讀報告事項二 邀請內政部就替代役訓練及備役召集運用進行專題報告並備質詢 討論事項一 審查委員王美惠等18人擬據替代役實施條例第59條條文修正草案案二 審查委員盧美玲等18人擬據替代役實施條例增訂第55條之5條文草案案 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1657.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1663.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
三 審查台灣民眾黨黨團拟據替代役實施條例第55條之一條文修正草案案宣讀完畢本次議定說在報告署行跟討論署行合併諮詢現在我們來介紹在庭的委員跟類似的官員我們第一位麥義正委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1689.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1690.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們羅美玲委員我們黃捷委員我們現在在庭的委員有超過3個我們是不是意思是來確定剛才所報告的有沒有遺漏還是有什麼問題沒有這樣我們就來確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1717.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1720.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
我們內政部 劉部長我們議政室 沈司長國防部資源規劃師人力資源處盧世察法務部李檢察官 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1746.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1754.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
行政院主席總署公務預算處李專門委員我們在這裏來補充介紹蘇僑會委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1770.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1779.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
請提案委員說明提案要旨我們請提為羅美玲委員提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1789.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1812.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
謝謝主席 大家早安為了配合全民國防兵力結構的調整強化國家在戰時 災時的整體動員跟應變能力並確保替代役備役役男依法接受召集之義務得以確實執行本席您與替代役實施條例增訂第55條之五明定對於替代役備役役男規避召集之處罰規定我們可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1814.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1834.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
依防害兵役治罪条例第五条第六条规定义务于后备军人如果意图规避或不接受召集令报道需处以刑罚然而现行的替代役实施条例虽然于第52条规定时对无辜不救指定 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1835.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1843.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
執意或擅離執意者可予以行政處分但並未對於服役期滿後列入被役之替代意義難規避召集之行為設有規範導致法律適用產生落差難以達到防度規避召集之實質效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1851.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1869.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
随着全民国防政策推进替大疫被应应难在灾害防救 战时后勤医疗支援等领域已逐渐成为国家整体防卫与应变体系中不可或缺之一环那如果为对非法规避召集行为明确处罚不仅削弱替大疫召集的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1870.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1897.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
亦不利于国家在紧急时期之人力动员因此有必要比照防害兵役治罪条例之规定建立替代役被役役男之法律责任明定替代役被役役男如果意图以不法手段规避召集隐匿行踪或拒收召集令者收受召集令后无正当理由不依时报到者其他以诈术或顶替手段规避召集等行为将受刑事的这个处罚 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1897.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1913.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
期望修法之後可以完善現行的替代役制度使召集法制完整並強化災害應變及暫時動員的能力確保國家安全防衛體系之完整運作本席的提案有請各位委員支持 以上謝謝謝謝我們感謝羅美玲委員提案說明我們現在台灣民眾黨代表麥正委員提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1933.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1951.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
主席 各位親愛的家人大家好 最近大家都看到很多社會案件像是藝人 名人花錢買病歷 假裝生病投兵 甚至還有整個集團幫忙操作 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1952.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1978.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這些人有錢有門路卻不用經醫務讓真正服役的年輕人看在眼裡都覺得很不公平台灣民眾黨主張病疫制度一定要公平不管你是誰有沒有錢都應該一樣面對義務現在法令雖然有法則 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1979.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1986.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
但很多人最后都以一颗罚金了事根本没有主 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1988.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2014.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以這次修法我們要把最低的刑期拉高到六個月讓這種花錢逃兵散兵的行為真正的付出代價這不是要懲罰誰而是要恢復社會的信任感讓大家相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2015.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2044.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
服兵役不是傻是光榮在全民防衛的時代沒有人應該靠特權逃避責任希望通過這次的修法讓兵役制度更公正更讓年輕人幸福也讓國家能真正站在公平的基礎上希望大家多多支持謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2047.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2053.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
謝謝 感謝麥政委員提案說明我們現在請內政部部長專題報告跟法案一併說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2066.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2086.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
謝謝昭偉 各位委員女士先生大家早內政部在參加今天的內政委員會裡面有兩個口頭報告一個是有關於替代役訓練及備役召集運用的口頭報告一個是由大院的委員所提出的替代役實施條例修正草案報告的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2086.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2111.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那以下就簡單的部分跟各位委員女士先生做報告有關替代役制度的嚴格跟角色的變遷從民國89年開始實施解決常備兵制爭問題的出發照顧弱勢族群並且解決宗教良心犯兵役問題這些宗旨所以參考歐洲國家社會役的實施成為亞洲第一個全面實施替代役的國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2112.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2127.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
結合義南專長與兵役義務專長專用士才士所維護國家社會治安創造經濟發展及支持社會福利並且隨著國家兵役政策調整及政府重點施政事項調整替代役的實施役別 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2128.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2157.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
面對臺灣天然災害頻傳環境威脅跟挑戰從傳統的全民國防提升為全社會防衛任性總統在113年6月19宣布成立全社會防衛任性委員會那內政部主責有關民力訓練與運用的推動包括現役及備役替代役役消役警以及民間災害防救團體等可視民力在面對極端災害或緊急事故的時候替代役即為可視民力的重要來源 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2158.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2185.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
現役替代役應難透過基礎的訓練專業訓練以及在職訓練三個階段以及緊急救護自衛防護防災避難民防教育以及協同演習等五個模組的訓練其中應難完成基礎訓練可取得EMT-1的初級救護員防災室及志願服務等三個證照讓應難服務時協助各機關勤務災時能就地支援機關防救災工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2187.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2205.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
114年預計完成13,650人的訓練另外行政院核定112到113年全民防衛動員準備綱領已經將替代役的備役人力納入人力動員準備方案各直轄市縣市政府所列管的備役藝男總人數約299,000人 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2208.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2236.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
替代役备役演训召集人数112年召集6505人113年召集5052人114年规划召集55000人召集日数110年及111年召集1日112及113年医训练种类由1日提升到1至4日114年更提升至2至5日建立我国后勤支援与灾害防救人力的储备体系 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2237.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2261.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
第二大項有關替代役備役支援救災運用的部分一因應花蓮縣馬太安溪堰塞湖溢流造成的嚴重災情內政部首次指導花蓮縣政府啟動替代役備役役男的勤務召集並且指派帶隊官負責帶領役男到災區協助災後復原的工作花蓮縣政府在10月13號起辦理兩梯次的勤務召集 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2262.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2287.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
第三次則是需要來辦理召集對象為涉及花蓮縣的備役藝男第一梯次是10月13到10月17召集120元實際召集總共出席的有95名第二梯次從10月20到24日預計召集120人實際召集為96名勤務召集期間備役藝男的權利義務與替代役現役期間完全相同第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2288.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2316.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第一T4應覽已經協助災區清掃打掃面積達8萬平方公尺街道側溝污泥達2200公尺堆置沙包5100袋家電發放1100件還有搬運上百件的廢棄家電更撥打了900多戶的撤離電話訪問調查等等第三大象有關於替代役現役支援救災復原任務第一114年7月6日在雲嘉南的丹納斯颱風嚴重災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2317.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2344.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
除了由灾区地方政府派遣所辖替代役的一男716人次执行救灾及灾后复原勤务以外也及时调度了基础训练当中的替代役警大警专毕业生一共1350人从114年7月14到17日跟地方政府一起从事灾害复原协作任务协助民众清理家园支援替代役人力计4280人次总计投入4996人次 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2346.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2360.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
第二因應華家沙颱風災情及花蓮縣馬太安溪艷澀湖溢流造成的嚴重災情內政部首度跨區調度替代役現役藝男支援災後復原工作從上個月的9月23日 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2361.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2388.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
起至10月20日止已經投入2072人次協助收容 處所 開設 災民疏散 撤離 物資搬運 整備等等工作第四大項有關替代役 備役訓練辦理的情形114年度規劃召集五萬五千人實施四類演訓召集辦理情形如下一 初級救護員EMT-1的繼續教育訓練由各直轄市縣市政府召集在成功嶺 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2389.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2407.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
基礎訓練取得初級救護員證書之各一別退役應難實施4到5日EMT-1繼續教育訓練以延續EMT-1證書效期強化國家整體緊急救護量能114年預計召集1萬人第二有關治安維護組及防災訓練組的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2409.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2419.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
治安維護組的訓練由警察機關召集治安維護組備役義男實施3日民防團訓訓練並且協調經濟部及農業部召集實施物資大隊專業訓練環境部召集實施環保大隊專業訓練114年預計召集18000人 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2429.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2443.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
第二有關防災救護組的訓練由消防機關召集防災救護組的備役應難實施三日的訓練並且協調衛生福利部設公司以及國軍退出役官兵輔導委員會召集實施收容大隊的專業訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2445.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2464.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
衛生福利部醫事司召集實施醫療大隊專業訓練其中含兩日防災式的培訓課程經過學科測驗及數科測驗合格以後並取得防災式合格證書114年預計召集一萬八千人第三實戰這級訓練由各直轄市縣市政府召集於成功裡基礎訓練接受打靶訓練的退役藝男 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2467.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2494.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
实施两日召集训练以强化全民国防职能114年预计召集8450人第四有关城镇任性演习的训练演习验证替代役支援民防团队能力在想定各项灾害抢救作为借以验证各地方政府临灾应变机制由台北市等11个县市实施二日演训召集已经在114年7月办理完均共计召集866人 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2495.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2510.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
第五有關後續作為的部分第一持續配合國家政策檢討替代役的異別實施替代役制度以來既有一般替代役17種異別及研發產業訓除替代役分發需用機關擔任輔助性工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2511.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2532.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
履行政府公共事務或其他社會服務或分發用人單位從事科技產業研究發展工作目前替代役實施役別既有社會役消防役民防役公共行政役及研發替代役未來替代役實施役別本部將持續是國家兵役政策適時與國防部及相關部會研議相關的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2533.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2557.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
讓義男專長專用符合國家及民眾的最大需求第二強化替代役備役義男防災救護訓練替代役人力已經納入民防體系的整體運作在服役期間及退役後持續接受各項自救互助訓練使每位備役義男均具防災士資格並且協同相關民防救災團體演習以手忍任務轉換與 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2558.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2574.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
与灾害发生时就地协助维持社会民生基本运作第三建立替代役被役勤务召集机制建立勤务召集机制本部建立替代役被役役男勤务召集机制在马太安溪艳色湖一流发生时 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2575.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2590.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
提供範本指導花蓮縣政府首次辦理勤務召集花蓮縣災害應變中心指揮官首度宣布宣誓後發動據以制定勤務召集計畫並且經內政部核定藉本次經驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2591.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2607.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
建立未来勤务召集机制制定标准作业流程以为规范第二有关建立人力调派的模式协助地方政府区分被疫应然专长类别协助灾害防救工作并且建立模式因应灾后复原 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2607.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2633.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
第三 強化替代役備役應難支援救災訓練及實務演練配合中央各級災害應變中心及防災協作中心指揮替代役支援民眾疏散物資發放 志工導引 災民收容等工作落實召集訓練以強化實務經驗量能第六 內政部將持續強化替代役現役防救災訓練及替代役應難退役四大演訓召集訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2634.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2653.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
使其手忍重大災害時的救災作業以備支援災害搶救等民防任務強化災時政府民間與藝男的合作協力合作充分展現替代役在防救災體系當中的重要資源力量以上檢驗報告敬請各位委員女士先生給予指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2655.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2656.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
謝謝 感謝部長的報告還有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2665.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2691.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
來補充介紹抱歉 謝謝有關於大院委員所提的這個替代役實施條例修正草案一共有三個部分那內政部的口頭報告如下首先對於各位委員對內政部業務的關注跟指導那今天有關委員會委員提案對於替代役實施條例修正第55條之一增訂第55條之五及修正59條條文草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2694.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2712.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
內政部應邀列席報告對於上開法律的修正內容將本務的意見說明如下一 修正替代役實施條例第55條之一的條文台灣民眾黨黨團鑒於現有法規對避免替代役徵集者或其協助者較長以一顆罰金或較短刑期為處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2715.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2743.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
拟据替代役实施条例第55条之1条文将最低刑期定为6月使犯罪人无法以金钱作为处罚并且加强犯罪恶主依照现行妨害兵役治罪条例第4条规定对于意图避免义务役之征集者除5年以下有期徒刑而替代役实施条例修正草案第55条之1拟修正为6月以上5年以下有期徒刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2744.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2764.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
其刑期較妨礙兵役自罪條例為重第二替代役為兵役之一種基於兵役公平性考量有關違反相關義務之處罰亦應尋其一致性因妨礙兵役自罪條例系為國防部主管對於刑度的修正會以國防部採取一致的見解 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2764.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2789.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
第二有關增訂替代役實施條例第55條之5條文羅委員美玲陳委員素月等18人所提案增訂的替代役實施條例第55條之5條文對於替代役義男服役期滿後於非常事變或暫時意圖避免召集服勤及無故不參加或意圖避免平時演訓召集之行為明定處罰規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2791.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2805.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
第一本次修法明確規範替代役藝男於服役期滿後對於非常事變或暫時之召集服勤以及平時演訓召集之陰刑義務如有意圖逃避或不履行者均應依法處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2806.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2821.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
此舉可有效杜絕逃避召集行為為確保兵役公平跟制度的嚴肅性第二為適用刑度的部分於非常事變或暫時意圖避免召集服勤委員提案比照後備軍人逃避 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2823.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2849.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
动员召集或临时召集处五年以下有期徒刑考量替代役艺男性质与任务特性处罚刑度与后备军人意图避免勤务召集雷同教士比照后备军人之勤务召集处三年以下有期徒刑至对于无故不参加或意图避免平时演训召集处一年以下有期徒刑拘役或科新台币九万元以下罚金 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2850.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2874.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
第三 修正替代役實施條例第59條條文王昭偉美惠等18人為避免因預算僅少數需用機關辦理替代役被役硬然召集提案修正替代役實施條例第59條有關平時演訓所需經費由主管機關及各有關機關依本條例所定按其應辦事項依運算法令編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2876.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2894.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
經查現行替代役實施條例第59條規定召集扶勤得室需要辦理所需費用由需用機關或扶勤單位列預算之應因為部分需用機關已經沒有禁用替代役藝男執行公務所以年度預算為編列替代役人力相關經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2895.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2916.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
委員提案建議平時演訓時比照國防部後備軍人制造及經費編列全責由替代役中央主管機關內政部來編列新縫津貼主管職務津貼主婦時津貼保險費撫恤基礎訓練及服勤延伸之繼續教育演訓所需經費其前列 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2917.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2918.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
以上簡單報告 請各位委員指教 感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2943.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2954.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
謝謝我們感謝保庭提案的繼續說明我們其他的單位報告請委員自行參與並刊登公報現在我們來進行詢問委員的詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2964.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2974.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
我們要選擇幾點 第一本會的委員會議四分鐘必要時延長兩分鐘 第二本會的委員會議時間四分鐘我們可以十點三十分 截止發言登記 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2989.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2996.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
今天因為有法案要處理 本組會議又沒有要處理臨時提案請問各位委員有什麼意見嗎?沒有?這樣我們現在來進行詢問請登記帝河輸協會委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3020.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3023.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請劉部長請保重委員早部長好 部長我們今天就是跟您討論替代役職執行的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3035.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3064.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那其實在這次花蓮馬太安溪艷澀湖的災害因為非常重大所以帶給我們在很多機制上面都可以從方方面面檢討上一次我特別是在跟你討論現場志工因為這一次大量的超過10萬人次以上的志工進到花蓮這邊去讓大家看到了民心民力但也知道這個制度一定要做可是我記得你上一次跟我回答志工可能歸衛福部你的回答是這樣那你這次的回答還是要一樣嗎是因為志願服務法 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3065.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3080.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
是由那個衛福部來主管我知道但是志工的服務的話在這次馬太安心那邊其實所有中央各部會都有投入幫忙做志工包括導引或是分配工作等等都有包含在內對 所以部長我就是在跟你討論機制的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3082.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3101.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那我這次很高興在你的這個報告當中第二頁其實就看到了你這裡寫總統於113年6月19日宣布成立全社會防衛任性委員會然後呢本部主責民力訓練與運用之推動那就包含了現役被役替代役役銷役警及民間災害防救團體等 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3103.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3115.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
可是名利所以確實沒有包括志工可是這整個的機制名利訓練與運用就是在內政部啊所以我還是覺得以內政部警察消防民防通通都在內政部之下這個機制應該要怎麼處理那 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3118.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3126.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
我認為雖然法律規定現在衛福部啊啊看起來是這樣可是這個怎麼運用在災害裡面我認為還是應該內政部來主責啦為什麼呢因為你看我們沒有那麼大的能量我認為你可以在全社會防衛任性委員會當中建議把這個東西拿出來討論它不是行政院的機構它是一個諮詢性的角色那內政部會去協調相關的部會好 內政部協調可以好 內政部協調我收尾主責兩個字 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3147.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3168.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
內政部協調 這我可以同意因為你看 副長我現在要跟你繼續討論的我們今天要討論替代役可是既然有10萬人次的志工進去做救災修復清整的這個工作那我想請問這一次內政部同意了花蓮縣政府的申請召集了這個替代役進去那替代役這240人次這次做了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3171.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3187.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我們在報告裡面有跟這個委員說過我們現在有兩個提示那第二提示呢最近這兩天才過去基本上就是配合花蓮縣政府他們的指派工作因為花蓮縣政府的指派工作嘛那他指派了什麼工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3188.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3196.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
第一個大概就是第一個還是仍然協助清理災區然後疏散撤離的部分然後再來就是沒有沒有沒有他有疏散撤離嗎有有有我跟委員報告這個因為裡面的這個替代液有兩種一個是現役替代液一個是被役替代液 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3203.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3207.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
現役的替代役我們在這次調動了12個縣市那是現役替代役因為你剛講的就是現役我再精確後備我們再叫招回來的240位備役替代役當中這240人次他們做了什麼其實我們可以看到從網路上面一直變成新聞的狀況這240人次其實就是去清整環境清整環境其實說真的就是挖土 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3229.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3236.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
就是清掃嘛所以我們的替代役我們的後備替代役當中尤其是被叫召回來的他有是才是所的備分派任務嗎其實是沒有啊其實是沒有啊報告委員我想再跟委員再補充說明一下因為第一批次的這個備役替代役的召集啊他的召集時間呢已經到9月底 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3254.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3281.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
好 九一底以後所以呢花蓮縣政府認為說把他們分配到做其他的像這個清溝等等這個工作會比較適合那我們就尊重他但是第二梯次開始的時候我們已經聽到第一梯次的這個被替代藝男的聲音那開始就會做比較專業的分類比如說 因為勤務召集因為勤務召 現在還在執行當中對 到今天都還是 就是到今天啊到今天都還有 勤務召集只有 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3282.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3300.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
服務召集只有五天的時間是那他們能做的這個方向呢還是以能夠配合這個官方單位所指派的工作為主那這些呢我們未來都有很多精進跟檢討的空間部長我就是請你在備詢台上告訴我官方現在這五天指派了什麼工作嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3301.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3306.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
花蓮縣政府現在在補判他什麼嗎對啊那我是不是請我們市長跟您報告一下我現在只有幾分鐘可以答快一點嗎報告委員我們這個第二梯次的部分我們有發現到有些醫生我們就把他分化到這個衛生所來做疫診還有相關資料整理那另外他有資訊專長的部分在做他們的後續的這個資料的整備比如說他們要 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3322.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3331.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
這個避難啦要垂直避難或者是要所以你現在要告訴我的是說你第一次一次確實是有狀況因為第一次一次召集來的120人次就是如同網路上說的新聞上報導的120人次在已經有10萬人次的志工去花蓮做清潔工作的時候你還叫招了120位後備替代役去做挖土的工作嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3346.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3355.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
這就是為人詬病的地方這就是我今天在跟你討論要不要檢討機制的部分好但是我聽到你現在的回答你第二梯次就做精進了對不對是好那我要求你提出這個因為到24號嘛20號到24號現在正在進行第二梯次我要求你把現在第二梯次的資料拿出來並同第一次比較給我們看你第一次到第二次當中精進了多少項目多少人次怎麼運用這些可以做到吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3372.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3401.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
很清楚嘛 對不對提供給委員會嘛每一個委員會都可以了解這樣的狀況甚至是你們現在其實就可以告訴全國的人民我們改進的速度是非常的快因為內政部是督導事實上這整件事情還是應該是花蓮縣政府啦我老實說啦老實說花蓮縣政府自己提出了教召的這個需求把替代役後備備用的替代役叫回來了他本來就應該要做好工作可是沒有那你現在是督導單位嘛內政部是督導單位嘛所以要有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3402.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3423.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
那我現在除了要求你提供項目之外我現在直接告訴你我們在替代役現行的狀況之下他其實是有告訴你分工的機制現行替代役的分工他有個要點可是我們替代役義男服役期滿後的這個召集的就是後備替代役的他有召集辦法18條但都著重在召集 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3423.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3441.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
沒有後面的分工所以我建議可以比照現行的這個替代役的作業要點的部分也提出明確的指引你贊成嗎我們目前在這個部分我們其實是對他的專長已經有做一些調查了實際上的應用以後我們會來我要求有一個檢討啦好謝謝謝謝我們感謝蘇喬惠委員執行我們家張志倫委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3459.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3483.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
好 謝謝主席 各位委員各位官員大家早有請劉部長好 部長謝謝那今天是要討論這個替代役的問題那根據這個114年3月18號發布內政部跟國防部公告修正的替代役義男服役期滿後召集服刑實施辦法的部分我們有感覺這個替代役的定位 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3484.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3509.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
有改變的非常的多以前大家都知道是做社會服務那現在是要納入整個國家的防衛體系去來應對非常事變跟暫時的情況那這個轉變我覺得知識體大也牽扯到國家安全所以要請今天這個部長來跟我們說明一下針對所有異難的權益那新修正的這個實施辦法裡面的第三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3510.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3525.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
把這個演訓召集跟勤務召集的部分尤其在演訓召集的時候把原本退役後8年內實施一年度一次為限的部分把它給取消起來必要時內政部得事需要增加年限次數跟日期 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3526.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3554.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
因為我們就我看就我了解這個這個辦法裡面來講一般喔這個備疫一難然後要先演訓完然後就可以勤務召集嘛那我想請教一下喔那以這樣子的改變喔大家認為我八年以後我這個退役八年以後就不用再演訓召集現在把它整個調整了以後什麼第一個什麼叫必要時內政部得是需要增加年限次數跟日數喔所以現在也不是一年一次每次五日現在整個完全開放 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3555.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3580.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
所以然後地方動員人數也從十分之一暴增到二分之一所以現在內政部有沒有統計整體的人數到底能演訓召集跟勤務召集尤其演訓召集的人數是多少那叫召的目的到底是什麼那總共的時間還有到底叫召到底我退役多久以後現在超過八年都要來演訓召集到底是到底是幾年因為我看你們一個表裡面25年 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3581.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3589.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
的人數你們都在計算在這個今天的報告裡面去所以是不是退役以後25年的人都有可能叫招是不是請部長回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3590.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3613.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
報告委員基本上我們現在仍然是按照替代役的實情辦法來處理到目前為止沒有所謂得釋需要著徵的部分這個必要時得釋我現在把實際上執行的情形會跟委員做一下補充報告那我們現在的狀況其實就是跟國防部差不多都沒有做什麼所謂的必要時著徵 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3613.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3640.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
那目前的狀況我是不是請省市長部長你們有修法律一定有相關的原因你們有相關的大概預測的人數然後預計的年限好好謝謝拜託這個法律的修正剛才我們部長也說明過了就是要比較國經國經有這樣的一個機制那你們有沒有預計必要的時候什麼叫必要時候增加年限是增加幾年次數跟日期那你們沒有完全都沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3641.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3652.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
這樣子的規劃為什麼就直接啟動修改這個實施犯法因為第一個就是比照國金他們一樣替代役跟常備兵他們的權利義務基本上是一樣所以我們把他先訂這樣一個跟國金一致的規定你們是先 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3655.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3682.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
先怎麼樣 先修正然後再來看是不是以後要試用嗎那以後有國軍 國軍也是這樣子訂那國軍有必要我們也會試著跟國軍來做同樣一個標準 一個應用那麼如果以後我們要啟動這個鬥志基源規模增加的原因是什麼啟動這個機制就是國軍如果認為有必要要所以以後以後是不是要協助國軍那協助國軍要做什麼是不是來支援關鍵基礎設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3684.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3712.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
還是做軍事輔助的工作就是說請這個緊要告訴我替代役在整個國家總體防衛裡面扮演到底是什麼角色我們最重要就是要做所謂的疏散避難還有緊急救護還有災民安置以及物資配送這些是我們以後替代役在防救災跟民防的工作跟那個所謂的這個CI就是關鍵基礎測試我們替代役是沒有進入這個區塊的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3713.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3721.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
替代市未來會不會成為防災市每一個現在我們今年開始在替代這個基礎訓練都會有防災訓練這個可是 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3726.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3753.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
可是當遭之後如果要勤務召集的時候在非常事變或戰時的時候這些替代藝欄也是需要來協助嘛是嗎是 備役的替代藝欄所以這一次我們就這一次像我們這一次馬太安西疫流的事件就是我們請了花蓮縣政府然後把備役藝欄用勤務召集的方式來實施好 所以我還是要希望說那個師長這邊是不是可以你這個修法當時修法啟動的目的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3754.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3780.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
難道就只是為了配合國防部你自己內部有沒有做一些內部的報告規劃統整的這個資料請問有沒有我們這樣子想因為如果說有必要時的時候像我們特別最近我們做一些防災式的訓練藝蘭包括縣立跟備役都防疫相當好都反應相當好現前有一些備役超過8年的藝蘭他們認為他也想要學習那我再請教一下那請問現在備役召集剛剛部長特別有報告說 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3784.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3808.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
今年規劃114年是要召集到五萬五千人那包含很多個四大演訓嘛那我剛剛看報告裡面都看到說你們內部現在只有說預計會演訓的人數那現在實際的人目達到了達成率是多少目前我們達成率是要將近五成啦也已經十月了才達成五成對因為中間預算後來我們在辦追加預算才 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3808.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3834.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
因為我們預算被凍結的關係那你今年到年底的時候大概預計達到我們會來努力啦我們會來努力盡可能的達到好那最後我是不是再請部長回應一下好那今天討論的非常重要兩個問題大家看到最近的新聞就是今天這個其他政黨也提出來有關於有關於傘兵跟傘召集相關的修法針對傘兵的部分他在準備預計要修正的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3836.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3854.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
這個55條之一他有一個最低處6個月以上的一個部分那第二個是要請教說反召集這是新增的一個法令最低就是他修在第55條之五就是說避免這個召集的服務是處5年以下尤其徒刑那剛剛我聽部長這邊講說是要改成3年嗎是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3858.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3869.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
還沒有確定可是我看到你報告裡面是寫這樣的內容所以您的意思是說這兩個法條你們有建議你們內部會考慮修改嗎我們的考慮是這樣子啦其實替代役也是兵役的一種所以我們都會跟國防部齊步這樣會比較好那國防部原則上是贊成內政部的主導方向那再加上那個委員有提到最近有所謂的這個閃兵役人的部分過去不要講役人啦閃兵的部分呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3885.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3900.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
在這個法院裡面判的部分大概都是六個月以下所以目前我們的兵役召集已經從四個月延長到一年之後那其實這已經不符合新的這個兵役法所以傘兵處六個月以上的部分您這邊認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3902.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3916.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我們可以可以一起來討論那國防部的意見現在是什麼方便國防部他們有派員過來我們不敢幫國防部做這樣子的會議所以現在已經開啟討論的部分了嗎今天的會議的時候內政委會大概什麼時候會有一個結論出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3918.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3938.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我們想再過一陣子譬如說給我們三個月以上的時間看看我們必須要做這個替代役的這個有關相關條文的修正我們跟國防部甚至要跟衛福部因為包括體衛的部分或者是跟法務部這個罪行法定程序還是要一樣那我們再送出來會比較好預計大概三個月的時間嗎好 謝謝 謝謝部長 謝謝市長謝謝我們感謝張志倫委員質詢我們家張宏祿委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3957.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3982.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我先請醫政司司長現在醫政司司長好 司長我們現在所有的備役不管義務役或替代役他的授訓 他的什麼到底是國防部主責還是我們這個醫政司 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3983.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3990.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
我們目前替代的授信是一個是現役 一個是備役我剛問你的是包含EUE |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3991.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4013.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
對 義務役常備兵當然是國防部替代役的部分現役就是也是義務役的替代役是按照兵役法第二條的規定也是義務的一種第二條規定是這個軍官役士官役士兵役跟替代役所以替代役也是兵役的一種那有關你替代役的現役的基礎訓練是由我們內政部會同國防部來辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4014.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4031.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
因此我們現階段所有全國替代役的基礎系列就在成功營這個營區也可以國防部介入好啦 我簡單說所有的我們的議政司其實你最主要的其實你是做這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4034.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4050.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
增兵或通知的程序最主要的是我们要议政室在做吧我们这样子我们按照兵医华三四条的规定就是增兵处理是我们内政部在负责那么替代役的主管机关是我们内政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4052.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4069.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
長輩兵的訓練後備管理是由國防部在負責就是在兵役法裡面我們是有做分工我剛剛就是問你這個問題嘛這個一句話可以回答的你可以講了這麼久我也真的覺得佩服你你知道嗎就一句話而已那 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4071.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4090.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我想請問一下EWE他們本來就是什麼兵種就過去就是什麼兵種嘛 對不對那我們的替代役呢其實裡面就包括你們講的有很多的項目而且以前跟現在是不一樣嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4092.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4117.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
自從實施替代役以來我們就是都這樣子在辦理替代役的基礎信念就不是啦你聽不懂我了一別就有很多種我們現在又有改了嘛對不對是所以以前跟現在又不一樣了那我想請問一下那如果我們的替代役未來他在備役的狀態之下我們拿請他來 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4118.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4136.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
叫招授訓或什麼的我們有沒有用他的特殊的專才然後去加強這一部分的一個訓練因為你要全民防衛嘛對不對你裡面可能有醫生可能有什麼很多種喔是 我們目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4137.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4149.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
就有分治安維護組跟防災救護組那治安維護組基本上這部分是由警政署來做負責的這個招訊那治安維護組裡面又有所謂的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4151.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4167.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
環境清消以及這個物資配送這個是又牽涉到經濟部跟環境部這個部分我們有做這樣一個請問我只問你啦那如果是有醫生呢醫生的部分就在防災救護組裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4169.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4174.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
有是由消防署這邊來做整體的規範但是裡面我們有請衛福部的醫事師來做這方面的專業訓練還有社工師剛剛你就講說這是你們醫政司的業務你現在又說都是他們我要問你的你就都說他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4190.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4216.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
那到底你對業務你到底有沒有了解這個部分是因為我們有做這個需用機關我請部長好了張委員我想我們師長比較仔細一點第一個就是有關專長訓練的部分由目的事業主管機關來訓練那內政部的議政司在基礎的國防訓練上面跟國防部一起配合對啊其實一句話可以講得很清楚對不對比較緊張 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4220.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4227.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
那我再請問像現在未來國防部什麼其實從俄烏戰爭等等的無人機其實扮演了一個不敢說最重要的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4235.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4251.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
但他在不管你全民防衛或等等裡面他都有這個角色存在那我們未來我們的替代役我們有沒有這一塊有 我們目前規劃明年要來對我們替代役的這個訓練要規劃八個小時的無人機的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4254.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4280.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那現階段我們是已經有在在職訓練也有做部分的已經訓練了今年也有做部分的訓練了那明年是規劃所有的替代藝人在成功領基礎訓練我們有八個小時的無人機的訓練的課程的安排那是在成功領基礎那你他如果是備役之後呢備役現階段是那個治安維護組警察警察的這個區塊裡面他們也有對這個也有把他們當這樣一個課程這樣有啦目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4284.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4305.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
警政署有這樣子規劃對於自然維護組這個區塊他們有做這樣的規劃他們用的無人機是跟國防部配合的還是我們自己一套系統警政署的這個部分我就不清楚那我們內政部的部分是我們明年開始我們是會專案採購我們明年的部分明年我們部分我們會採購無人機16架 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4309.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4331.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我也不問你細節什麼樣的無人機我只有一個啦這種無人機其實有攻擊型的有探勘型的有勘查的什麼的那我們著重在哪一塊我們著重在勘查 探勘比如說在有災害我們去探勘災害的狀況還有傾縮的這個部分我們沒有攻擊型的 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4334.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4337.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
所以我的意思是說要全民防衛在這個我認為這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4342.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4365.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
無人機我認為未來會扮演一個比較吃重在情搜在情報的蒐集等等的我覺得這一塊我認為應該要把它放成一個重點去處理是我們這個部分所以我們明年就有做這樣的規劃要來做訓練而且所有的藝覽都要接受這樣的訓練好謝謝委員好謝謝張宏祿委員再來我們請牛許廷委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4373.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4375.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
謝主席 劉部長有請請劉部長委員好部長 早安 辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4384.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4408.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這個花蓮馬太安溪的這個救災的時候大概內政部啟動了這個替代役的召集被役替代役的勤務召集被役的勤務召集嘛然後投入救災嘛然後基本上權益是比照替代役當初的服刑標準要有工價有交通費還有薪資的一些津貼至少要確定他來的時候不影響他的生活嘛對不對有內政部負責有花蓮縣政府安排伙食跟住宿對不對對就有本協了解是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4413.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4422.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
今天是由內政部負責這一次調動異難協助救災的這個模式跟與地方政府的分工溝通是怎麼運作的 順利嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4423.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4450.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
跟委員報告現役替代役的部分都相當順利那包括桃園市在內就是我們提出本來花蓮縣政府就提出其他機具的請求那人力的請求的部分在現役的調動方面我剛剛有報告過有12個縣市的現役替代役馬上過去而且其中還有做倫理現役的當然快嘛因為我剛剛講的是你講特別是備役的這一部分備役的部分第一個它的條件是我們設定的條件第一個它必須花蓮縣級 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4451.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4479.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
花蓮縣的戶籍那還有他是備役替代役所以他在動員的過程當中呢勤務召集的過程當中他的通知時間要有三到五天你不能夠今天講明天就去因為他正在工作那所以第一梯次的動員雖然我們是標120人但是真正來的時候大概是九成左右九成其實是不錯了啦對 第二梯次也大概是九成左右我的意思是說你們在開會討論的時候跟縣政府溝通的過程算順利嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4481.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4508.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
情務召集的部分這是全國第一次所以花蓮縣政府在處理兵役制度上面的公務員會比較不習慣但是因為我有下去花蓮親自協調對 我有跟花蓮縣長徐真衛縣長跟他講說謝謝他願意幫忙所以從我們開始啟動要做情務召集的時候到他真正發布的時間大概過了五天左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4508.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4534.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
當然還算可以可控的範圍因為每個都是在災害應變中心事情都非常的繁多我想我們應該互相體諒其實很好我是要讚美我說其實地方政府跟中央政府只要溝通順利大家群策群力他的效果總是不錯的所以這點我是覺得我是持正面態度我覺得蠻肯定的我要順著這個題目往下問就是說因為我們現在都希望這個替代役的備役藝男他可以發揮更多的功能嘛防災也好名利調度也好他其實應該有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4536.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4558.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這個隨時調度的功能你第一次在災情的時候用指揮中心指揮官的角色去啟動當然會有一些些小的這個摩擦或者是一些適應的時間但我覺得沒關係總是啟動這個事但既然有啟動而且效果看起來是不錯的那麼未來這樣子的一個機制能不能變成一個也許可長可久或者是可以更靈活支援的一個機制本期的建議是這樣就是說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4559.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4576.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
這個台灣難免這個多災多難地震颱風等等常常有一些特殊的狀況所以其實我們都希望民力能夠有效的運用那麼這一次是因為你是首次是用召集的方式嘛所以你大概限制地域等等但其實在這次的救災我們看到很多人其實是熱血投入嘛產值超人等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4576.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4590.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那是不是有可能未來盤點一下替代備應應難的這樣一個人力資源提早的來做比如說做個平台登記制比如說其他縣市我要自願去救災有沒有這樣子的一個機制可以來做運行 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4591.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4615.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
是 報告委員我想分成兩個階段您大概所說的所謂的產值超人是自動自發去的那是志工嘛 純志工嘛他到底是不是備役或是那個那就不重要了這不重要那這個部分呢其實我們在最近的馬太安溪告一段落之後也會針對志工以後要怎麼樣做比較好的分配工作會做檢討跟精進的方案那您現在所說的這個備役替代役對 我講的是替代役的部分嘛對 所以我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4615.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4641.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
更能夠肯定說我們現在的現役替代役要有三張證照就是防災室EMT-1緊急救援五號這個我覺得很重要因為這一次去參加的現役替代役或被役替代役不管是他們做什麼工作至少沒有什麼受傷這些狀況因為我們也會緊張你至少把人力確保好我的意思是這樣你現在有一些你會要求他有一定的職能等等既然他有現在訓練都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4643.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4671.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
那就要好好的調度這一批的人力或者是儲備這一批的人力所以其實建議啦 看看議政署這邊登記平台嘛也就是說 我既然有這樣的職能國家發生災難的時候我也有這樣的意願去投入救災其實你可以做個預先登記嘛因為你內政部其實提供了一個相對還算OK的配套嘛我有工價 我有時數等等這是你們可以政策協調的事情嘛那你如果未來有一個這樣的平台預先登記你是未來不管在哪裡災變發生的時候我手上有一批比較快速的人力可以運用啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4671.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4700.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
这是本期的政策建议希望做一下参考好我们在第二梯次的时候已经慢慢在做这方面的改变所以才会有医护师的人到卫生所去协助对所以因为你讲你刚刚有回答苏小慧委员之间你讲的志工因为有志愿服务法等分属不同部位但你内政部可以直接掌控的就是替代役因为这完全是内政部主责所以说我的意思说针对被疫难的人力调度你能不能预先排序他们哪些专长在发生的时候你可以快速调度我是觉得可以做一些政策上的设计这本期第一个建议 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4700.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4719.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
第二我們談防災現在希望地帶疫投入防災等等也很多社區像你們馬市長非常專家他在做防災社區的一個推廣跟跟跟防災社區或任性社區任性社區都很好但問題是這樣這本期的觀察我們從第一線現在越來越多村裡等等他都想要去成立所謂的防災社區但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4719.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4734.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
我想這部長一先做民意代表你也很清楚啊這到了村裡的時候你就會發現里長下面很多熱心的林長對不對然後林長同時也是巡守隊很多同時也是環保志工現在加入了防災社區他可能都會一起受訓變成防災室 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4734.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4758.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
當然這一群核心的人力有多項技能這個對於村裡的工作運作是好事可是他同時也會有問題嘛 對不對就同樣集中一群人然後這一群人可能也許年紀大了一點等等他並沒有充分的運用所有的人力所以本期在這邊做的第二個政策建議是有關社區的防災式的訓練啦你怎麼樣跟你義南的資訊來做結合嘛我覺得很多義南其實已經有證照他已經有技能了 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4758.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4778.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那他可能退役之後他變成備役藝男的身份那他未來是他既然要發揮他的功能他其實應該被鼓勵投入社區防災室嘛你至少要讓他跟附近的村里長熟識嘛讓他加入不一定要去硬性的上課啦但是只要有一個管道或一個什麼樣的方式你鼓勵他去就近參與嘛這樣我社區防災室的人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4779.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4786.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
一方面不會給里長造成負擔二方面年齡上的差距就不會那麼的明顯我想也是一個有效調度的方式我跟委員補充一下我們現在的設計方案第一個我們的民政司已經要求全台灣7,448個里長來接受防災室的訓練有這個基本的概念那現在完成率是25%左右他們其實都覺得這個概念是好的而且我們都是全額補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4803.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4818.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
然後第二個是我們現在設計叫做防災協作中心就是鄉鎮公所或是區公所下面的村裡如果要成立防災協作中心區公所這邊的話未來我們就是大小這個人數的多寡會配備20名到50名的替代役 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4819.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4844.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
來協助未來如果有天災的時候幫忙而不是說某個里那這個部分呢他就會接受區公所的指揮因為志工去幫忙是有時間去沒有時間就不去但是如果是接受區公所或是防災協助中心指揮的時候他會比較有條問問有組織性來協助既有的防災協助體育這本席尊重但我的意思是講因為很多里長或者是很多里長做防災社區的時候他其實很熱心 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4844.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4856.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那有的時候調集人去上課那有些門檻上的一些落差嘛那我的意思說你替他一些人力可不可以合理來做調度跟補齊嘛一方面讓他更貼近村裡嘛尊重防災協作中心二方面也讓這些防災是真的讓地方是有強力連結的嘛可以再補充一下我們防災協作中心目前甚至配備物資就是緊急發電機或是緊急的濾水器等等這些我們也配備進去在這一次的國土任性預算裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4873.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4875.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
房災裡面你們會做很多努力啦這一點本席很支持啦大概會有上百萬以上這樣的補助那這個我們還要教導他所以我們很希望說這個國土任性計畫裡面相關這個部分尤其我們全部都是給地方政府不要被凍結 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4888.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4911.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
我說真的啦 如果說比如說我們這樣 名利的調度啦 防災的配套他其實很集中在防災 然後不要有太多政治力去介入的時候其實對焦 我們都很正面的處理這個事情那我就希望說 既然你已經培養了很多 替代醫幾乎都是防災室了嘛那是如何讓這些防災室深入社區被替代醫的防災室還沒那麼多 但是現替代醫 只要到成功嶺都一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4912.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4937.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
對 但慢慢會越來越多所以你未來這批人你怎麼讓他跟村裡做結合這是本席的重點而且是最好是他的戶籍所在地當然嘛他就比較知道你住哪裡我就在哪裡服務其實是最好的嘛對 而且鄰里也都熟啦不好像來個陌生人要做什麼事情這就是本席的第二個政策建議我希望內部提一些想法跟方案其實我們已經在進行了我剛剛都跟你補充說明了那你就會後把相關的一些資料來做補充我想這樣的一個政策我們希望看到成果可以嗎好 謝謝部長辛苦了好 謝謝牛旭廷委員再來我們請王美惠召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4950.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4955.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
主席我們先補充補充覺得先喝一個茶嗎沒關係沒有問題謝謝委員的關心補充在這幾天尤其早我們有看到逃兵因為在那裡做假的身體因為你們一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4974.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4982.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
你們看起來,你們是覺得柴海是高血壓而已嗎?不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的不止,還有蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4995.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5003.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
心中的在這裡面 我覺得要跟市長跟部長說的就是 不管他是有錢 不管他是外國人 我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5010.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5012.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
想為中華民國的男主人要做兵的時候沒做兵還用這個手段來投兵我覺得非常不應該啦現在是大家覺得說下屬的人為了他的下屬的生命的表現所以沒想到要做兵的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5038.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5040.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
應該是很多的人也會做出這種手法在普通說實在 我也覺得說想不到 我真的想不到因為想為一個十五年男子漢在台灣生活大漢的 還不做兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5066.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5073.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
從小到大 國家保護他 家庭保護他 跟他做邊不走 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5075.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5078.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
所以我們今天本身也拜這個探討在探討的責任也看到說實在 大家發聲都說得好聽我本來就要出來主修 還有想想的 我會怕 我不敢出來所以我知道我的不對 我參會 還有發聲 這樣就算了 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5101.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5102.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
那這樣的話 我覺得我們這個問題會越來越大 會越來越多因為我覺得 正在選舉的時候欧北部說人們什麼東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5116.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5118.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
沒有做病什麼什麼到現在比較實施用錢去買不用做病的所以保證在這裡你有要提供什麼意見給我們是 謝謝委員的關心我給委員做一個補充報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5134.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5161.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我们刚刚在回应媒体的时候有特别提到112年的体位标准修正以后结果免疫率打16%那太高了因为我们现在的健保制度还有加上体检其实都很好很多慢性病或其他的病其实都可以处理得很好的所以会发生这样的病病目前为止我们看到的就是说高血压还有增重 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5162.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5165.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
自己吃大口的扁平族勢力或者是精神系統這些都是在這一次這個由地檢署他們發動要偵查的時候為什麼會出現這種假的病例或者是購買來的病例所以我們也要呼籲就是說本來 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5184.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5206.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這個服兵役就是國民的義務而且服兵役呢這是很公平的本來是四個月你就不要去做兵現在一年也不要去做兵我覺得不好意思啦其實這樣子就是沒有達到我們自己國民應盡的義務那為了這樣的部分呢我們跟國防部在明年四月會把這個體位的這個標準或者是檢測不要出現漏洞的部分會給它補齊因為保庭本身在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5213.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5216.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
差不多 你也有解釋在這裡 我覺得 你剛才有說過我們健保這麼多年 如果大家的身體健康這麼好如果要做病 要去體檢的時候 又不可能所以在這個從小到大的身體檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5237.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5241.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我們可以尊重健保卡這一點再來剛才補充的你講的貧富族、貧貧族那種像人家說阿姆爹那種的我們講真的那種的都沒辦法改變啦它出產的它比較大的有沒有就知道啦所以你們看那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5262.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5265.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
整套整套的裁定他不可以做嘛所以那種的看得很清楚的是這個心臟跟這個口腔跟說實在的那個有的口感我真的他不是本人的跟醫生串通的 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5282.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5284.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
不是本人經營的也有耶有有的吃藥下去給他的蝦餡也有耶對所以沒錯這個問題非常要緊再來剛才有說我們運盲不能一做不對再發生蝦餡然後來喚醒不要做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5308.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5312.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
在這裏我們要拿去這條法律的時候要讓他能夠如果各位醫生不可以醫學來修因為你們這個單位你們有你們的心法要不然我們國防部到目前為止有什麼心法請什麼人來回答國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5340.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5358.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
是 報告委員就是有關於那個在提高這個刑度的部分我們這邊其實主要整個大方向基於這個兵役的那個公平性來講的話我們是在支持的一個部分只是說在一些刑期他那個設定上面我們這邊再跟內政部再做一個研議因為我覺得這次要再研議因為我覺得這個事情不是早就發生了 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5369.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5389.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
一定發生很久的所以我們要積極去處理以上保庭市長跟我們公佈的本事有一些還沒說完我要用書面報告麻煩跟阿娃回答以上謝謝好 謝謝王美惠 趙偉 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5399.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5399.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
謝謝,感謝黃鐵委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5410.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5430.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
好 謝謝召委 我們請劉部長請安保電委員好部長好 也跟您先請教一下因為這兩天這個逃兵風暴 延燒那看到說其實我們內政部目前掌握除了目前已經偵辦的20多位還有大概92件已經送檢掉了所以總共大概是120多件在這個133總共133件在這個犯罪集團裡面嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5437.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5462.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
很有可能因為大家都集中在閃冰藝人那其實還有一些大家可能沒有這種藝人光環的那我們發現到我們在清查的過程當中就是醫師所出具的診斷書或者是幫忙協助的這些醫院的醫療裡面是不是有出現問題那這相關的這個部分我們查出來以後已經移送給地檢署來做下一步的偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5463.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5482.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
好 謝謝部長因為這個我非常好奇的是說目前手上這個133人之外到底這個規模到底有多大因為包括部長其實剛剛也提到說現在台灣免疫的比例大概是16%可是其實鄰近的國家包括韓國跟新加坡其實大概都是5%而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5483.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5506.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
所以如果在這樣的預估之下你們有沒有預估說接下來主動清查下去大概還有多少人數有可能是面臨逃兵的這個問題報告委員這樣子是一個非常好的方向我們大概有兩個目前在這個體檢或是增兵的過程當中是不是有一些不孝的醫師或是醫療院所 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5507.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5512.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
跟著做這個開具不實的證明讓後面的兵役徵集單位出現這樣子的一個錯誤的判斷那這個部分呢我們除了尊重地檢署在偵辦之外那我們可能會跟國防部呢就提出假的這個這個體檢的資料的話要跟他的健保制度來做勾擊也就是他平常的時候血壓都正常那為什麼要徵兵檢查的時候血壓突然竄高 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5534.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5554.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那這個部分呢譬如說國防部他們有提出一個想法就是說如果他有這種狀況提出復檢的時候呢可能要要求他住院讓他知道說他是不是刻意去吃藥或是有刻意什麼狀況然後把他降成原來他是屬於在健保卡裡面的就醫的紀錄裡面的這樣子才是真正的一個就醫證明 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5555.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5561.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那這些都要啟動這個程序的時候還必須要跟我們的醫檢單位也就是衛福部做詳細的這個說明跟詳細的溝通那如果這一套系統可以完成的話就會完成我們跟內政部跟那個國防部所說的這個體會標準或者是體檢的過程當中怎麼樣防止這個漏洞往這方面來發展那另外就是我們會尊重立委所說的部分就是說如果你提供造成這個兵役上面變成免役或是變成替代役的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5584.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5610.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
那不要只有六個月的這樣子的一個刑期也許要往上但是往上也要有上限這個上限呢我們必須要再跟國防部再做一個比較橫平式的檢討那也會詢問那個法務部他們的意見好 謝謝部長的說明這就是我非常想要理解的就是接下來到底我們預期第一個現在逃兵的這個人數的規模到底有多大你們手上有掌握嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5612.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5620.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
我們目前就是掌握到133個那後續我們還都有在清查所以這個主動清查的程序會持續下去對 我們會持續好 這是我第一個要知道的第二個就是剛剛部長說的其實這個是接下來最重要的事因為其實昨天我們顧立雄部長他其實有提到說接下來會加嚴這個免疫的標準但我認為加嚴免疫的標準只是說這個BMI未來可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5640.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5654.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
會提高或者是說接下來可能會納入更多的人口但除此之外我認為最重要的是防弊因為剛剛部長提到一個非常重要的重點就是這個中間還有非常多的可能是前客可能是協助造假的醫師 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5655.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5678.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這是整個犯罪集團啊這些人必須要通通的抓出來才可以知道說即便未來你們加嚴標準提高了未來要納入人口更多了但是如果沒有抓到這些作弊的人都沒有用嘛對 所以如何加嚴這個免疫審查的標準這個我認為是內政部接下來最重要的責任好 謝謝委員的指教就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5679.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5696.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
也沒有跟委員報告其實某一些特定的不肖醫師啊地檢署有掌控OK那他會跟衛福部來做勾結好那基於這個信賴的原則我們就是以衛福部他們勾結出來的原則讓他們自己會移送到這個地檢單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5697.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5701.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
好謝謝部長的補充說明喔那最後刑期的部分當然因為現在大家詬病的就是說買逃兵這件事情太容易了你可能十萬塊就可以買到一張造假的病歷那後來就算被抓到了罰金也只要罰個十幾萬等於是你總共加起來二十幾萬就可以完整買到逃兵的程序大家說哇 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5721.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5735.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
好便宜喔好划算喔千萬不要讓這件事情變成大家認為是一個可以鑽的漏洞兵役制度的公平性跟國家的安全絕對不能建立在這種被大家這種非常賤價的風評之上好嗎拜託部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5742.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5756.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
謝謝委員的指教我想就是我們查出了他如果是閃兵或逃兵的時候他在36歲除役之前還是要回來服役但是36歲以後會有其他的方式這一點我們正想把這個漏洞再補齊 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5757.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5784.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
好這個也要拜託畢竟追溯期還有20年嘛這個20年我相信都還是可以能抓都還是可以抓得到的那最後一點時間請教一下因為大家都在講說這一次我們是首次的讓這個被異的替代役來進行勤務的召集那我認為這個經驗真的非常非常的寶貴那當然也有很多要檢討的地方可不可以請部長跟我們明確的告訴我們你們目前 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5785.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5809.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
實行出來經驗是什麼有沒有檢討那下一次會如何精進呢是 其實因為在第一批次結訓的時候我有到現場那我看到其實每一個參加備役替代役的藝男他們都覺得很有成就感可以幫忙解除災區的困擾尤其是他們自己的家鄉但是後續有提到說能不能根據他們的專長來做專用 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5811.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5835.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
那就表示說我們在勤務召集的過程當中我們一定要跟縣市地方政府來配合說他的專長在什麼地方那未來分派其他在救災的任務的時候呢比較有比較高的效率但是我們也看到說90幾個人120幾個人出去的時候其他的效率會非常高他不是一般的流動的部分跟他講說這個結果裡面你兩天要完成什麼工作他其實兩天就全部完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5835.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5853.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
那是因為是群策群力的關係那當然在帶對關裡面的包括地方政府或者是中央政府的我們未來還會跟防災體系互相結合所以在做專長專用的分配的時候更能夠馬上精準的去知道說哪個地方是最需要替代役這些人力幫忙的 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5853.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5879.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
好 謝謝部長說明我最後補充一個點因為其實我這邊接到的經驗他們也都說這個經驗非常好而且這樣的召集對他們來說都是一個榮譽但是呢他們的意見反而是說覺得工作量太少了他們希望自己可以再更有效率的做更多事情那我覺得這是讓我很感佩的地方所以第一個如果未來這樣子替代役的效率其實很高那其實可以再賦予更多的責任給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5880.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5904.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
第二個也有替代役跟我反映說機具的分配包括說需要一些專業的機具以及現場的這些不管是說從鏟子手套等等這些該給他們的都要明確的直接的給他們第三個就是剛剛講到的專長分配未來一定都要更適材適所讓第一時間召集這些替代役的時候大家都知道自己的專長可以貢獻在什麼地方好我們會多做溝通好謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5907.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5909.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
謝謝我們感謝黃姐委員質詢我們現在邁進委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5923.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5938.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
謝謝主席其實每次執行我們都花了很多時間準備資料收集意見希望行政單位能真正的理解問題但常常因為時間有限還沒有談到核心就必須結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5939.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5953.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
所以很多政策的討論其實都需要更充足的時間才能講清楚也讓各部會有機會好好說明所以今天如果時間稍微有超過一丟丟所以也誠請我們召委能夠從容一下讓我們可以把重點問題討論完整畢竟這些都是關乎民眾權益的重要議題 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5966.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5972.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
好 我們有請內政部議政司司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5977.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6004.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
好市長好我們一南依法就是有服兵役的義務但事實上我們看到的替代役免役的確定早已被社會質疑是就是有錢人的特權就像今年初爆出就是藝人假的病例逃兵案還有王大陸陳零九的這些藝人 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6005.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6018.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
花錢買診斷證明成功逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃逃 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6035.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6046.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
是這個部分我們發現到這個問題事實上就是我們在有一個判處免疫體位的這些案件都必須要送到我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6048.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6066.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
體會審查委員會那麼我們分這個初選跟複選那初選的時候發現到有問題我們就會提到這個複選就是複選這個機制是我們跟各醫協會的派出來的醫生專業的醫師我們共同來討論相關的案件那 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6068.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6087.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
會發現到這個高血壓這個案件是因為我們在審查委員會發現到很多類似集中的這個案件案件相當多所以我們在前兩年年底發現到之後我們在今年初我們就主動的把相關的案件送到地檢單位來做偵辦所以這個部分就是我們在體會審查委員會裡面就 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6088.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6108.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
發生 有發揮到這樣的一個功能那後續這個部分有些案件因為體溫區分標準的規範還不夠嚴謹的部分我們也發現到這個問題所以我們跟國防部就來啟動體溫區分標準的修正好 除了醫療證明的漏洞所以剛才你說就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6109.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6134.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
就是很多的把關但是還是有那麼多的就是醫療證明的漏洞不管是家庭的因素還是宗教的因素申請替代役也被網友質疑濫用所以請問我們的醫政司如何嚴格驗證這些申請因為剛才你講的是有但是除了這樣還有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6136.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6160.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
有沒有更讓大家就是說你們沒有濫用這樣是這個因為標準的修訂是配合我們的兵役證之後來做調整所以剛才委員有示教就是說有關你家庭因素的部分以往是相對的比較寬鬆那我們已經做了一個標準的修正了這個標準的修正之後我們已經很大部分本來是可以服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6161.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6190.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
補充邊或者扶替代役的都已經移到到長邊議題位了以往這個部分差不多有五千多人那現在這個部分呢只有三千多人來扶替代役那這個替代役呢我們這些家庭因素的替代役我們現在就把他們規劃訓練為這個防災式的訓練以後到公所裡面去應用但是因為我看到你們的報告裡面都半年了但是沒有一個真正的作為啦所以我們看到你說查出了一百多件無病歷史 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6191.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6204.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
就是突然就是有得病的可疑案例顯示就是我們陷阱的審查機制確實有在漏洞所以我們希望說這個後續的處理的進度還有其中多少案件確認是偽造還有我們的醫政司是否是已經追回就是散兵的義男的義務移送司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6218.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6219.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
因為我們看到你講了 越講越多但是半年了 我們在你報告裡面我們沒有看到的具體的計畫跟作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6228.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6249.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
有我們都有按照這個步驟配合地檢署的偵辦我們目前都有跟他們來配合那些有些案件因為是監察不公差所以我們還是沒有對外來做宣布那這個部分呢我們都積極的在有在配合這個請委員放心我們不會我們不慌不腫啦一定這個只要是涉及逃避兵役我們絕不寬待 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6251.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6258.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
很好我們因為身為主管機構所以我們希望就是監討為什麼就是有這樣的漏洞還有長期的存在也越來越增加對不對昨天就是也有也有其他的案件的產生所以我們只是說不能單靠就是罰金的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6272.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6298.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
是否真正能防止有錢就能散兵的亂象是否知識雜種對頂替的他人或者介紹他人頂替的行者這個就是想要問你的要有一個最重的或者是怎麼樣的行則讓他們才覺得說要必須不能再去做這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6298.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6327.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
是 這個剛才我們已經報告過了包含部長 包含國防部我們取得共識之後我們在三個月以內就會提出法案行政委員來給我們指導好 我們謝謝司長這些問題的核心都是公平都要是公平 一定強調公平兵役公平是國人最重要的事對 所以體會審查就是要透明替代役的制度也要讓我們社會信任希望我們的議政司 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6328.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6352.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
要能正視就是這個制度的漏洞拿出集體改進的方案還有讓我們的兵役制度回到我們的公平可信的基礎也更讓年輕人感受到我們的服役服兵役不只是義務是我們的更是我們的藝男的驕傲還有榮耀 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6356.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6374.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
這個才是真正我們想要的也是我們的名聲謝謝是我們會來努力謝謝我的指教謝謝謝謝我們感謝麥政府委員我們家高精素美高精素美高精素美不在我們家洗禮政府委員執勤 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6384.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6385.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
我們請劉世芳 劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6392.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6418.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
學員好部長好部長昨天又因為這個藝人閃兵有幾位的藝人被居體逮捕那我想這件事情其實已經鬧了一段時候那其實我們說實在平常看到這些藝人在螢幕面前都是活力十足而且身體非常健朗可是每次要到當兵的時候呢就要嘛就是可以免疫要嘛就是可以轉服替代疫所以說對很多的年輕人還有家長都覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6421.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6448.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
事實上是非常不公平那我們其實知道從健保制度84年實施以來照理說衛福部已經全面掌握全國民眾的完整的一個健康的資料所以說我們看到這些藝人平常的時候都活蹦亂跳但是到了當兵的時候就突然出現身體不適或是罕見疾病所以本席要請問部長的就是我們的健保資料跟我們體位的審查是否有整合的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6449.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6477.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
目前沒有因為我們中間有一個叫做體檢那那個體檢的話就是根據兵役法是由內政部跟國防部一起把這個體檢完成所以目前沒有這樣子一個整合機制嗎目前還沒有因為整合這個機制還涉及到個資的部分那我們看在申請便跟體位的時候照理說相關單位也就是我們這邊應該是要參考一下這個個人的一個健保的就業紀錄就他平常有沒有這些異常 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6478.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6485.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
或他平常有這樣的一個用藥的紀錄而不是在短期內就有這樣子的一個這個醫療紀錄像這樣的這樣我們我覺得應該是類似就高風險的一個造假是不是應該要有一個專責小組來附身是 謝謝委員的關心委員您講到重點也就是說他平常身體非常健康那為什麼要到服兵役的時候突然身體就有狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6501.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6520.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那這個部分我們漏洞要來處理那現在也朝著這個機制在發展那相關的這個初檢跟體檢的復檢我是不是請議政司長很快跟委員回應一下好嗎沒關係這個部分我想就後續可能再給辦公室資料因為今天的時間比較短我接下來想請教的是就面對社會對傘兵的不滿因為這一段時間吵得沸沸揚揚所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6524.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6544.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
政府有没有什么具体的行动计划要重拾年轻世代对我们这个服兵役的一个信心我想整一个体检制度上面的漏洞我刚刚有跟委员报告过了包括在这个复检或者体检的过程当中是不是有些漏洞我们要补齐那我们也发现到闪兵呢后面有没有有一些是犯罪集团 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6545.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6565.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
甚至包括有医生医生不配合他有怎么办法有出去这样的一个证明对所以我们现在所知道就是包括这一次的这个案例里面有某一些特定的不孝医生其实地检署已经在侦办当中所以目前已经移送法办了就对了我想我们尊重司法单位的调查就问说有没有移送法办吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6565.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6572.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
應該會跟委員報告因為剛剛講說已經你們已經主動請地檢署在整這個嗎是已經我們移送了但是他偵查了進度因為這個要非常專業你要看得懂病例表裡面的這些東西必須要跟所以本席在這邊是建議我們內政部應該建立一個健保資料跟體位審查系統的一個串聯機制那由衛福部國防部大家共同審查那我發現有這樣子一個健康不符的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6595.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6621.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這狀況的時候我們就主動的啟動那個復檢的機制要集體管控這個我們的採檢避免假病例的出現好嗎好謝謝那接下來要請教的是兩位可以請回我接下來要請教的是有關替代役備役部長麻煩你所以我們要請教的是有關替代役備役的一個召集部長可以看到一下這個表就是我們從替代役的備役役來的演訓召集人數從105年 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6624.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6646.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
的1000多人到现在今年去年113年预估是58618人那最后当结训的是5052人我们可以看到为什么在过去这个政府对替代艺的艺男的召集跟延续是如此疏于规划是一直到去年才有这样子的一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6646.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6670.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
大規模的演訓召集的活動那是什麼樣的一個狀況因為如果是這樣子的一個大幅度的增加到底是出於災防跟社會任性的考量還是因為兩岸局勢的惡化政府已經在為最壞的狀況做準備報告委員這個是內政委員會要求我們要把被替代役的演訓召集要實務上面來處理所以才會有跳升這麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6671.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6693.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
所以實務商會來處理是怎樣我是不是請易正思跟您補充這個報告我們早為之前的幾屆的委員會都有說我們替代役之前的這個備役召集的人數就一千多人跟國軍差距太多差距太多是希望我們能夠做更大量的一個這個召集的訓練所以大概本來從對啊所以你可以看到那個增加的幅度已經不是一倍兩倍是幾十倍所以如果一樣是你說的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6700.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6718.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
在以前都是因為災防跟社會任性嘛那災防每年都有啊風災地震每年都有啊那但是你這個災防跟社會任性的部分的話就增加到五萬多的這個替代應難所以當然就會讓大家懷疑是不是因為兩岸局勢已經惡化然後大家在為最壞的狀況做準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6720.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6744.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那跟委員報告因為我們除此之外因為我們替代役在112年之後就是因為任務的轉型以往我們替代役都是在政府機關在做所謂的公共事務的輔助性工作跟社會公益服務那後來我們替代役現在轉型要做民防做救災的工作相關的這個部分我想我們都知道但我今天要問的問題就是說因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6746.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6773.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
以前是疏於演練現在開始我們有一個演訓召集的比例提高這麼高那我現在要請教部長就是說在這一次的馬太安的這個艷澀湖的潰壩之後內政部首次召開勤務召集直接讓備役替代義男上場救災那剛剛部長有講大概人數大概近百人你們召集120人達到九成那差不多就是九十六九十五九十六大概九成左右請問有多少比例是在過去三年中 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6774.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6790.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
未受过演训的召集我们可能要查明一下我为什么要问这个问题就是说现在已经去参加就是在这一次有将近你说九十几名的这个被疫艺男有多少是在过去三年内没有受过演训召集的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6790.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6798.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
我要提這個問題的意思就是說如果他們大部分都沒有受過嚴峻召集就馬上要去這個救災的話事實上會存在著安全跟執勤的風險我主要要問的是這個這個部分我們現階段沒有做調查他之前是不是有接受嚴峻召集也就是往後續 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6810.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6816.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我們後續要做大幅度的給他們做訓練比較多的訓練就是因為他們對 我今天要凸顯這個問題就是說你們去年已經召集了5萬多人嘛照理說應該是有很高一個比例是有做過演訓召集那目前你們沒有這個資料對 我知道那但是就是說會後是不是可以提供給我們那我想要表達的重點就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6832.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6860.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
應該是要讓他們有受過這個演訓召集之後才能夠上場去做救援但是我跟委員報告就是我們在做這個演訓召集的這個人數呢是尊重花蓮縣政府他們去把這些人找出來我的意思是說他們有沒有做過訓練我們再去查明一下再跟委員報告就是我希望未來能夠去做救援的人他都是有做過這些訓練他上場這樣才能夠不管保障他自己的安全也真正能夠救災有有有我們會朝著這方面謝謝委員的指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6863.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6880.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
謝謝 感謝徐議政委員的質詢他剛才說的 委員說的時候你們要再去辦公室介紹一下對 對 對你們要提供一下我們將李博義委員質詢劉部長跟議政司 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6891.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6918.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
現在部長跟議政司委員好部長其實今天這一題雖然我們在花蓮的時候就在那有做了這個替代役的這些召集的運用那其實就跟一個概念就是防災式的概念那我今天想要舉瑞士跟日本 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6919.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6946.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
兩個國家針對防災或者是國防的這些案例來跟內政部來做一個討論那第一個就今天的主題防災來講日本從2003年來開始就把這個防災式的概念法制化那目前我剛剛也聽了其他委員的槌尋那義政司的回應就是針對我們目前所有的替代役退役之後慢慢累積這些防災式 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6947.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6976.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
所以我在這邊也建議議政司可以有更多積極的方式或者是參考他國的這些方式因為台灣面對非常多的天然災害等等的這一次的花蓮除了義工們我們內政部妥善的可以召集這些替代役可以回來參與救災我想都是非常值得正面再去進一步探討的來 司長你請你回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6977.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7002.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
稍等再請部長回應另外一個問題謝謝是感謝委員的視角我們防災式的訓練這個我們這個政策我們今年起我們就積極的來推廣所以不只有要有方法我們隨時等內政部提出相關的這些方法出來我們今年所有在成功嶺接受訓練就新的啦要慢慢累積嘛對新的這一年所有的依然都要接受防災式的訓練並且要取得證照就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7003.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7029.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
就像今年有一萬三千六百五十人都一定要取得這樣的一個證照這是現役的部分覺得一年多一萬三啊對這個是我們替代役的部分好那其他的方法請你請你來整個部裡面我們部長在積極的推動我們希望能夠達到十萬有關你備役的部分來我請部長部長剛剛有其他委員也講到是要戰爭論嗎我覺得不是啦因為以保二 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7030.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7037.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我們去年度在審議預算的時候保二總隊警政署保二總隊就被講成說你們買這些反恐器材你們是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7038.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7065.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
准备要备战吗我想对于目前战争的形态那针对国家重点设施的这些部分包含水库电厂等等的这些的驻卫的警力必须有相关的这些第一时间的这些防备的这些能力这是加强一些训练而不是要准备战争这不要再这样误导所以我们内政部目前做的这一个事情就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7066.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7072.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
召集替代意來是增加台灣防災任何天然災害的這些任性來部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7073.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7095.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
是 謝謝剛剛委員有提到所謂的重要關鍵基礎設施現在當然是以寶二為主但是隨著重要的關鍵基礎設施越來越專業化我們除了寶二以外可能地方政府的警察人員也要投入所以這個部分應該跟所謂的什麼要準備戰爭是完全相反就好像說我們國防部有軍人有軍人就是準備要戰爭嗎不是 我們要防衛 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7098.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7119.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
對我們自己國家主權的正常防衛應該有的那不能把所有的工作都放在國軍所以這樣子的一個防衛機制裡面我們對於所謂的後備或是對於所謂的替代役也要做一下防災的訓練那這個防災訓練裡面除了現在面對天然災害之外還有一個重要的功能就是萬一有像譬如說像花蓮縣這樣的大規模 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7120.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7149.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
大規模的天災產生的時候我們要想辦法維持它的正常運作的功能不是大家都跑去救災然後縣政府或是鄉鎮公所就沒有人上班那這個誰來幫忙當然替代役的訓練可以補充一部分的部分所以這個部分恐怕很多人的會產生誤解不是然後也有人提到說你的替代役在成功你受訓的時候也要做打靶但是大家都知道連我們在高中的時候女生也都是要做打靶的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7150.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7180.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
不是為了因為打靶訓練就表示準備要上戰場我想這個是太廉價對於這個替代役整體制度上面的誤解看到我們任何部會提出來任性兩個字就是說要戰爭的我覺得這件事情我們必須要很清楚的說明清楚包含我從剛剛我舉的這個寶二對於國家重要設施的例子那對於我們這次替代役的召集這些例子來講我覺得我們可以透過這些實例讓社會更清楚知道目前台灣需要什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7180.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7190.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
對 報告委員就是我們的預算也是因為陳義正看到任性兩個字從警政消防每次看到任性就起效就說要打仗那現在是慢慢恢復所以我們義正是很辛苦趕快把這時間補足的訓練量盡量把它補足回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7198.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7226.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
那也跟委員補充報告一下除了我們現在在成功領受訓的這些現役替代役的防災室訓練高達接近一萬五千以外我們其他的民力機構包括像NGO到目前為止的已經登記而且拿到證照的是有超過七萬多人其實我在這邊也提醒部長還有司長其實當然這不是司長這邊的業務啦那我提醒部長其實我們出生地方有非常多地方的民力可以使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7227.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7246.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那透過這些名利包含這些不管是疫警疫消或者是民防等等這一些來推動相關的這些防災式的這些訓練那我覺得都是一個可行的方向報告委員我想委員非常清楚了我們民政司已經要補充給所有的村里長 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7247.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7269.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
訓練費用那現在全台灣有四分之一的村里長已經拿到防災式的資格除了村里長之外很多這些疫警疫消我也推我也建議內政部可以研議那個沒有問題只要他們願意把時間衝出來可能他們現在已經都有防災式的資格可能要再做一下那還是一樣就是我們還有防災協作中心未來的區公所會 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7270.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7294.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
分配到有20個到50個是替代役在碰到天然災害的時候會協助區公所就是防災協助中心做必要的專業上面的防災的處理好謝謝最後我針對剛剛部長回應的時候說113年度體檢免疫的比例高達16%我也建議這個跟國防部可以來討論這些相關的標準跟規定謝謝謝謝我們感謝李博義委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7300.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7329.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
加蘇清泉蘇清泉蘇清泉委員不在加鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在加楊瓊英委員楊瓊英楊瓊英委員不在何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在羅明才委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7330.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7336.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
羅明財羅明財委員不在我們這裡需申請質詢好感謝主席我們請部長請劉部長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7351.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7379.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
今天谈这个替代艺男我想您一定认同我们替代艺是国家的重要人力资源是他也是兵役制度的一环对兵役制度那每一位艺男的专长与时间我们是不是都该妥善的来运用分成现役替代艺跟备役替代艺那我们现在在现役替代艺上面有关专长的这个分布的部分会有比较好的规划那备役的时候因为太多我们慢慢会把它补足 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7379.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7398.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
好 那除了專長以外呢我想請教我們現在內政部手上有沒有一份清楚明確的替代役人力地圖所謂人力地圖就是在我們全國各縣市不管直轄市或是我們縣轄市這個縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7401.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7409.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
他的分部你們有嗎有沒有這一份我請市長跟您回應一下好 報告委員我們這個部分我們有建置這個替代在全國各地的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7411.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7428.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
這個人眼的配置跟地點我們這個是在結合我們內政部的踢購的這個地圖我們有來做這樣的一個配置你們有完全掌握囉有好那但是因為現在會讓我們感覺你們那現在有數據嗎現在沒有沒有準備嘛你們今天來有沒有那個數據我們目前總數啦你們是總數我現在說那我請教我新竹縣有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7437.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7459.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我們查一下所以你們都每年每年都有掌握就對了他就跟兵役制度他就跟兵役制度一樣你現在在服兵役或者你是後備我是指替代役是 我的替代役也是兵役制度的一環所以我們應該掌握他在哪個地方不是分配就是有多少人數我們大概會知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7460.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7479.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
然后他我指的是他你有多少这个艺男人数但是我现在是说替代艺他有些会配到哪里配到哪里你们也有有有这个资料有好那这个资料有的话那你有没有发现众都会亲偏乡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7479.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7503.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我們替代役現役的部分有兩個區塊一個區塊就是用申請的那申請的就是依然你要哪裡來申請我們沒辦法掌握所以申請的時候他可以決定地點給他選擇嗎沒有掌握分配嗎我們基本上替代役的分發我們是以戶籍地為原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7505.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7530.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
就尽量让他回到家乡里面去那以后被疫他在被疫的训练或者以后被疫的救灾他能够来熟悉所以我们尽量在家乡我们尽量都是让他到回复脊地去服勤因为我们地方上我们有感觉好像一些偏乡地区的长照或者是弱势孩童的照护都没有足够的替代仪是 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7531.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7550.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
怎么样这个部分因为卫福部他们也有提出这个替代业人力的需求那替代业人力的需求基本上是卫福部就他所分配的原额他再去进一步分化到各县市那这个部分我们是尊重卫福部对对但是你手上有掌握嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7551.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7579.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
所以这样就变成说如果我们说长者或是孩童的这种照护所以这就又变成是卫福部的权责因为人脸我们是你们只是把人召集来不是我们人召集完了之后那卫福部每年他会提出他的需求源额经过行政院的核定核定完了之后我们每年就会把这些人数尽可能的都给满足到各部位的人力需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7580.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7593.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
那各部会人力需求之后他要分配到哪一个县市哪一个公所就由卫福部来去做决定所以这一个变成又是卫福部的权责对这个分配到服勤地点是由卫福部来决定好 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7594.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7608.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
接著這一塊因為今天應該衛福部沒來沒有今天衛福部沒來我就接著問我們義男他退伍後的就業輔導因為他這 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7612.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7627.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
为国家尽义务嘛那总是会牺牲一点尤其我们又恢复了一年嘛对不对所以是不是让他们怎么样会有一个空窗怎么样可以顺利重返社会这一块有没有任何的就业辅导措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7628.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7652.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我們這個部分我們現階段並沒有去從事這個工作那委員如果有指教的話我們以後也可以盡可能來媒介啦對啦 可以譬如說跟勞動部啊 退府會或是一些相關單位也幫他們弄個就業博覽會因為就本席了解有些人他對他自己的生涯或職涯 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7653.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7680.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
他掌握得很清楚但是因为现在有些很多服役的他们都还年轻所以如果说在可以有一个衔接然后帮他办个就业博览会也不难吧可以来做吗我们会来结合劳动部来配合这个机制我们来运作对对对好不好好那也请部长也支持多督导那再来就是我们对于这种家境清寒的艺男 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7681.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7707.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這個部分我們是不是有可能特別對他們照顧因為我看到好像他們每個月大概就是7000多塊沒有 這個跟委員報告因為我們現階段我們有所謂的中低收入戶跟低收入戶低收入戶是要來扶替代役中低收入戶是扶常備兵役那他們去服役的時候他們的這個家況我們會給他做生活 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7710.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7728.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
辅助加矿的调查如果符合我们的类类级的这个等级我们就会给他生活辅助那生活辅助就按照他的人口口数里面的多少我们给他给他这个经费的补助那基本上我们是给他6500多块将近7000块没错啦一口 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7731.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7737.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以他家人口多你還可以乘以3有3口你可以乘以3他還分甲級跟乙級丙級甲級的話我們就是乘以3 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7743.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7765.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
对这一块我们希望能够来协助这个部分我们之前已经有调整过了一次而且调整的幅度本来3000多块我们就调整到将近7000块我手上的资料最新你从5000多调到是7130我不知道那你的讲法是7130如果它符合规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7765.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7785.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
有三口人你可以乘以三給他對 甲級的話我們就是可以乘以三甲級是怎麼樣甲級是他的收入第一最低生活支出標準的百分之十以內那十到七十是一級對好 我們希望這一塊是能夠來協助我們也希望一起的努力但是我們還要跟主計總署來做過好 OK 好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝我們感謝新委員執行我們現在林卓英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7797.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7808.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
林祖英委員不在我們這裡下令改委員下令改委員下令改委員不在我們這裡羅廷偉委員執行麥克風 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7824 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7842.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
謝謝主席有請內政部部長委員好也麻煩國防部檢視察檢視察國防部先請問一下部長部長您看一下這圖片您知道這是哪裡嗎答得出來嗎請委員指教這個是西營島西西營島西營島對 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7852.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7870.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
就是大家西營島對大家口中的國之北疆那我為什麼要跟大家這樣分享我想同樣應該都是正常體位的藝男有人散兵免當兵有人在這裡當兵那我想在這裡當兵的藝男 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7871.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7899.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
大概100多天才能回台湾一次我想请问一下内政部部长请问目前掌握一事涉及妨碍兵役的异难或是案件总数大概是多少报告委员我们移送到地检跟县市地方政府的是133件除了目前已知的这些方式如高血压还有没有发现其他的伪造体位或证明的一个模式方便透露吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7902.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7922.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
是這樣子啦我們不做個案上面的跟委員報告一下檢舉出來的部分包括有僵直性脊椎炎精神疾病還有胸果畸形應該是所謂的氣胸案氣胸僵直性脊椎炎精神疾病高血壓有多起嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7927.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7954.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
高血壓相當多相當多嘛所以就是我們這樣的模式偽造的體位啊模式大概明確的可以抓到是這幾個那體重呢應該還好吧過重是吧BMI過重這個部分請說那個我們有關你增重的部分因為他是增重嘛所以在檢查上他如果要蓄意的增重 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7955.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7973.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
這個部分是不是涉及逃避兵役我們會來再請跟檢調單位來做我記得後續還會追蹤他的體重對不對但是有的可能就一去就不復返那造成國人的健康也發生問題所以我們這一次在體位區分標準修正的時候要把BMI值 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7974.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8001.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
做大幅度的提升大幅度的提升邀請他進來然後一起來健康來訓練國防如果要達到免疫的話要BMI只要達到45這是相當重的問題也就是說他完全用症狀的方式要達到免疫幾乎不可能除非他有好 這就是我要問的那除了這一個部分BMI內政部現在還有計畫要修訂或加嚴的然後來防止這一類的情形還有沒有其他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8001.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8028.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那血壓當然是我們的重中之重血壓要怎麼去防範血壓的部分當然我們如果是純粹的血壓以往是免疫體位那我們現在必須要到血壓必須要達到他的心臟或者是器官有食指的病變才可以達到免疫體位這是他的我們的標準在定定的時候的內容所以這個部分也會大幅度的修動還有技術上比如說要量血壓我們都要做住院檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8028.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8054.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
以往是勢必是需要才住院檢查現在是規定一定要住院檢查長期的24小時的關注所以我們不管是在標準的制定或者是在檢查的這個制度上的規範我們都從嚴來訂定這個部分好那現在對於已經確認涉及妨礙兵役的這些異難在法律責任之外內政部將如何處理他們的役期或者是服役的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8056.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8078.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
這個部分剛才有特別提到有需要補充嗎有需要補服兵役嗎36歲以內是一定要回來如果說 先前我們這一次在這一波的調查當中有些藝人就發現到他自己也造假了他也主動來坦承了那坦承我們之後我們就跟縣市政府協調就恢復判他原來的地位 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8079.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8104.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
儘速把它徵集入院就補復兵役嘛36歲以後呢37歲以後因為他是除役了那除役這個部分是不是還要再來補要來補兵役這個也有立法委員提出來希望這個部分即使他是37歲以後也希望在機制上能不能再讓他回來機制我想大家對於這個兵役的公平性大家有所質疑我想內政部要有具體的措施來維護 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8105.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8130.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
我們所有男性服兵役這樣子的公平我昨天受訪的時候也表示鼓勵藝人來宣導服役那服役是光榮的那我們也希望37歲以後的這些到底是要回來補服兵役還是他現有的狀況他可能是知名藝人能不能夠幫忙協助內政部國防部來做相對應的一個宣導增加我們的一個形象 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8131.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8155.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
這部分我覺得你們也可以研擬嘛對不對你覺得呢類似像社會藝這樣子用什麼樣的方式我可以具體去研究當然他們有藝人的光環你能不能認為說他是一個很好的樣板如果他不服兵役或者是他不能不服兵役的時候這個藝人他如果是一個知名藝人他甚至是有一個正面的能夠帶動到整體的形象 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8157.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8186.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
内政部是不是应该运用一下我想是这样子啊第一个他如果已经有移送法办那最后那个地检署或者是法院要做什么样子的一个这个处分或是裁决我们当然就尊重那结束之后他如果愿意来帮忙这个推动兵役的话我们当然会欢迎可是这个会变成负面的形象变成正面形象的过程当中一般社会大众能不能接受还是他本来就是很健康的去服兵役改过自新也是一个非常好的一个议题啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8186.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8211.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
怎麼會是完全就是負面而且畢竟有些人是得過很多的獎項我想在演藝上的事業不可否認它是的確有它的一個規模但是在這樣狀況下我覺得能夠帶動到整體的年輕人去學習後面能夠好好的來服兵役就是知錯能改或者是好好的來服兵役或者是藉此發現其實當兵是很快樂的我跟你講我當兵 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8213.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8228.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
最後10秒我當兵的時候是看那個新兵日記被那個熱血跟那個快樂 歡樂給騙進去的啦最後是真的很艱難啦但是我認為這個文化產業應該跟上以上 謝謝謝謝我們感謝羅天惟委員資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8237.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8262.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我們定期發言的委員主領部在場以外全都發言完畢這項結束委員臨時應提出書面執行列入紀錄刊登公報書面執行及被逮捕的部分請相關單位一星期來依書面答覆並複製本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8266.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8269.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
這次修正條文簽署會同相關單位研議是妥適之修正條文內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8282.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8300.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
討論屬於蘇磊磊的議案定期繼續審查本會會議到現在結束現在散會 感謝大家 大家辛苦 謝謝大家 |