| IVOD_ID |
16971 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16971 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-22-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
22 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
教育及文化委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-22T08:36:03+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-22T12:32:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:55:57 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/3832c314c43c373d8a46bec1ad1976d360fe77b851cc70d10aa126c40303dc270da6d3d47221e2775ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
【10月22日及23日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:36:03 - 12:32:00 |
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MING PAO CANADA // MING PAO TORONTO |
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报告委员会初期委员14人已组法定人数现在开会本周三四为一次会首先进行报告事项请议事人员宣读上次会议意思录 |
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立法院第十一屆第四會期交易及文化委員會第三次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一一四年十月十五日上午九十一分至下午二十六分地點本案群選樓一零一會議室出席委員柯臻文委員等十五人列席委員林德福委員等十九人列席人員交易部部長鄭英耀率同有關人員報告事項一宣讀上次會議議事錄決定議事錄確定 |
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1502.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
2 教育部部長鄭英耀列席報告業務改款並備質詢本次議程有委員柯之恩等24人提出質詢均經教育部部長鄭英耀及相關人員及其答覆說明另有委員林德虎 高津素梅 翁曉玲提出書面質詢決定1 報告及詢答完畢2 委員所提書面質詢或相關資料列入記錄並刊登公報 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1503.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1510.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
三、對於委員諮詢要求提供相關資料後未及答覆部分請相關機關盡速以順便答覆宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1513.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1538.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
請問各位委員上次會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處因為我們現在在場委員未達議決人數三人我們議事錄暫不確定今天的議程是邀請國家科學及技術委員會吳主任委員列席報告業務概況並被質詢因為委員都還沒有到我們先來介紹與會官員國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳承文吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1540.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1564.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
副主任委員林法正林副主委副主任委員蘇政剛蘇副主委主任秘書林廣宏主任秘書執行秘書張正豪國家科學及技術委員會綜合規劃處副處長賴盈宇資產及技能科學及永續研究發展處處長賴明志 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1567.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1591.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
工程技術研究發展處處長洪樂文生命科學研究發展處處長楊台鴻人文及社會科學研究發展處處長黃俊儒科教發展及國際合作處副處長龔季康前瞻及應用科技處處長蔡妙慈產學及園區業務處處長林德昇 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1595.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1613.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
國家科學及技術委員會秘書處處長黃玉清國家科學及技術委員會人事處處長林妍曾國家科學及技術委員會政風處處長方純安主計處處長廖育燕資訊處處長周子源法規會執行秘書張益榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1623.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1648.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
研究誠信辦公室主任汪庭安新竹科學園區管理局局長胡世明中部科學園區管理局局長許茂興南部科學園區管理局局長鄭秀榮行政法人國家災害防救科技中心主任陳鴻宇行政法人國家太空中心主任吳宗信 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1650.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1668.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
財團法人國家實驗研究院院長蔡弘瑩財團法人國家同步輻射研究中心主任徐嘉鴻以上是我們今天與會的官員現在請國科會五主任委員進行報告報告時間8分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1678.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1691.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
召委各位委員大家好感謝各位委員關心國家科技發展並支持國科會的科技政策很榮幸列席大院教育及文化委員會進行業務報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1694.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1715.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
面對美國關稅議題、極端氣候與AI浪潮等全球性的挑戰,我國正處於科技進逐與產業升級的關鍵時刻。國會將秉持信賴溝通務實的核心理念,籌劃國家未來的全章科技藍圖,以維持台灣的優勢科技地位。 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1717.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1745.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
引领我国在遍及下突破创新仅就当前施政重点说明如后首先科技厚植国力强化台湾韧性持续发扬半导体优势积极投入人工智慧次世代通讯太空卫星智慧机器人等前瞻领域掌握关键技术自主性强化民主供应链韧性提高台湾科技整体国力 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1747.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1773.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
为发展自主AI系统,跨部位合作打造台湾智慧系统整合制造平台,聚焦需求分析及系统自主设计,号召产学员加入成为供应链伙伴。透过跨域系统整合,提供结合AI与晶片专业的一站式服务,协助各行各业实现智慧创新转型并提升竞争力。 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1774.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1798.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
此外,五大信貸產業之一的次世代通信產業已有具體進展。國會提出次世代通信科技發展方案,整合產官學員共同佈局通信產業,透過促進關鍵應用、建構實驗網加速研發、強化產業生態系跨部門協作等策略。 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1799.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1818.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
包括协助业者开发通信晶片关键零组件与通信系统等产品提升技术自主性同时加强法规人才培育并与国际大型低轨卫星公司建立紧密合作强化国家通信科技的未来实力 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1819.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1846.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
有关与次世代通信息息相关的太空领域细海科研火箭发射场域组装场与控制中心已于今年7月27日启用使未来的火箭研发团队能在细海完成从设计、组装、测试到发射控制的整套流程此外我国自主研发的福卫八号也预计近期发射升空 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1848.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1860.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
將能提高遙測地表影像的能力與效率藉由打造自主衛星的過程來培育國內太空領域人才帶動台灣太空科技及產業的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1863.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1881.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
凭借半导体及通信科技的坚实基础,我国发展智慧机器人产业拥有先天优势。国科会已提出智慧机器人产业推动方案,预期达成系统创新、产值提升、社会普及三大目标。 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1882.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1908.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
其能推升臺灣在全球智慧機器人產業的關鍵地位第二 科技回應社會 助力臺灣安康以科技洞察並回應人民需求藉由創新應用協助解決社會議題例如將半導體優勢與生醫領域緊密結合增進國人健康活力 更善用AI等災防應用強化社會抗災能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1909.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1925.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
於健康領域打造在宅醫療生態系以科技輔助基層醫護服務結合家戶需求拓展市場就由中央到地方從醫學中心到基層診所密切合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1926.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1956.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
共同以科技赋能减轻医护负担促进国产医材普及应用增进民众生活品质另外加速在高龄照护领域导入智慧科技缓解照护人力不足等困境未来国科会更将整合各部会资源创造内需市场临选优质供应链伙伴组成国家队拓展全球高龄市场 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1958.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1976.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
在災防领域,国会长期投入灾害科学、预警系统与风险治理的研究,面对台湾各种复合型灾害,在灾前准备、灾中应变与灾后复原各阶段均发挥极为关键的角色。 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1977.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2003.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
以具體作為貢獻全台防救災任性體系例如強化六大都會區地震預警系統效能提供預警即時性與民眾反應時間完成三維全災害資訊系統開發提供具地區性與客製化的精準災害資訊服務第三 科技引領創新 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2005.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2020.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
落实均衡台湾为推升台湾在半导体与AI创新生态系中的关键地位国科会举办2025IC台湾Grand Challenge吸引来自美、英、法等国新创团队落地台湾 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2021.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2041.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
同时加速算力基础建设以开发台湾AI RAP平台协助企业及新创团队快速应用加速AI导入各行各业推动数位转型升级另外科学园区各项开发与扩建均依规划顺利推动中 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2042.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2059.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
陆续引导高科技厂商进驻与群聚共同带动科技产业发展增进国人就业机会高科时中也在114年度开学形成优质生活圈 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2060.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2084.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
未來科學園區將提倡全新生態園區概念主動規劃削減排放量研修排放標準增加再生水及再生能源使用比例納入生物多用性等措施其兼顧經濟發展與環境攜手打造宜居與創新的永續科學園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2085.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2114.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
最後力挺基礎研究向下科普扎根厚實基礎研究培育多元人才是國家發展及社會創新的泉源國科會持續透過補助研究計畫表彰結束貢獻等措施來完善科研與人培環境並推廣全民科普今年Kids Science首度規劃串聯科普環島列車安排學童在參與列車車廂及站點活動後 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2116.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2121.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
赴科研场域参观体验延伸为一日科学之旅 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2123.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2146.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
國會持續以科技研發驅動關鍵國力提升,與各部會通力合作投入政府五大現代產業、六大區域旗艦計畫、AI新十大建設等相關科技項目,穩步實現行行有智慧、人人用AI的願景,將打造台灣成為人工智慧之島,實現均衡、韌性且健康的台灣。謝謝。 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2151.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2178.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
謝謝主委報告請回座我們在場委員已經有達三人以上我們先來確定議事錄請問各位委員上次的會議議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處沒有那我們就議事錄確定我們先介紹一下現在在場的委員林沛翔委員劉淑冰委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2184.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2186.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
喔 她又離開 OK OK 好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2189.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2218.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
現在我們要進行詢答每位委員出席委員質詢時間8分鐘必要時延長2分鐘列席委員質詢時間為4分鐘發言登記截止時間是上午10點30分委員如果有臨時停案請於上午10點30分前提出並與本會委員范雲質詢結束後即進行處理處理提案時若提案委員及連署委員均不在場原例不予處理首先請發言登記第一位林佩祥委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2225.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2246.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
好 謝謝主席 有請吳主委請主委林委員好 主委好國科會作為我國科技發展的總舵手 手上掌握了兩大關鍵的戰略資產一個是我們的半導體 另外一個就是我們的太空通訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2247.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2273.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
不过在面对日记升高的国际威胁的时候本席认为我们的科技政策似乎还停留在所谓20世纪末的产业思维就是1970到1980年代之后的产业思维对于我们现在21世纪的多元化国际化的挑战那对于整个挑战上面的应变防护 韧性建构缺乏清晰 比较具体的部署 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2275.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2291.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
我們就先從半導體開始講起好了主委半導體是我們台灣的經濟命脈那也是說我們在面對不管是中國軍事還是美國關稅還是甚至是日本的日本甚至韓國的這個商業間諜的威脅灰色地帶滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2295.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2304.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
甚至惡意的關鍵人才挖角的時候本席對於我們台灣在半導體產業的未來競爭優勢其實我是憂心的而國歌會主導的這個精創台灣計畫十年三千億目標宏大 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2312.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2321.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
不过在面对21世纪的国际化多元化的威胁的时候我比较关心所谓防护跟韧性而不是一般一昧的只是讲所谓的扩张 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2344.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2365.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們並沒有特別去計算這個比例,但是實在硬體的治安,利用科技來增加國家的韌性,這一點我們現在是非常積極在努力。所以包含軍工產業、安控產業需要的晶片, |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2366.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2382.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
我们都会支持所以全部都含在里面主委因为比较尴尬的点是在于半导体有人称我记得有媒体称是为半导体产业在台湾已经从细钝变成和氏币人人欲得知 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2382.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2412.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
所以说面对敌意国家我想这个敌意国家严格讲起来我不是指任何一个国家但是every country for themselves所以每个国家都会自己的利益为作最优先的打算所以也有可能每一个国家对中华民国都是有敌意的这点我们必须认同产业就是这样那面对敌意国家对于我们的半导体产业链包括原料设备设计跟晶圆厂的锻炼威胁国科会具体的反制跟备原方案为何 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2413.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2428.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
我们其实对于我们的关键核心的科技我们都有盘点都有保护那对于所有的国家愿意跟台湾做合理的往来友好的国家我们当然都会 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2429.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2453.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
愿意跟他合作因为台湾不能够只看自己国内的市场我们的半导体是要开拓全球的市场所以不能够把自己关在自己的国家里面所谓合理请解释一下合理当然就是在贸易上条件是合理的那允许我们去合理的去做生意所以你认为现在萧副总统讲的ICT外语是合理的咯 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2453.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2473.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
我們的技術委員不用擔心我們的技術絕對是跟有台灣沒有從來沒有改變這個態度我們的研發絕對是在台灣吳助委您認為蕭副總統講的ICT產業外移這是好還是壞事蕭總統講的不是外移我們是要擴散我們的實力我們當然要做生意 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2474.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2492.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我們現在半導體產業因為美國非常龐大的市場我只是單純從一個科技打關者的角度來看請問這是好還是壞是好的因為台灣如果不往外去擴散的話我們的實力沒有辦法展現到全世界各個角落 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2493.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2495.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
所以我们当然是希望能够展现实力 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2523.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2538.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
沒有惡意不惡意只有威脅只有威逼利誘拐騙偷搶沒有所值要在合法可是法所以我為什麼說國際化因為International Law是國際每個國家都說它自己是合法的 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2538.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2553.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
像我个人认为美国有些时候对我们的一些大厂做出一些相对用美国的反托拉斯法对我们的国家大厂在国外去做出严重的罚款这一点都不合理但是合他们的法但是合不合中华民国法律不合 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2554.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2570.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
所以这一点甚至现在我们也知道捷安特现在因为外劳的原因被美国科语重罚这也是不合理但是合不合美国法合美国的法那这一点来讲就是我提到的国际化跟多元化的威胁尤其在半导体产业上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2571.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2591.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那這一點來講身為國科會主委的吳主委您就必須要再三考慮我們現在做的所有作為到底是保護台灣的產業呢還是在實質上在削弱我們台灣的產業國科會的業務範圍我們發展科學園區我們投入資源做科技研發我們回到金創計畫好了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2593.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2613.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我们去问一下金创计划那金创计划如何确保今天联发投资不会在明日的冲突之中我指的冲突因为半导体之间的竞争严格讲起来这不用实质上的战争也是一场看不见烟消的战争透过关税透过保护措施透过各种惩罚措施这种战争叫做看不见的战争 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2615.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2642.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這種看不見的戰爭有時候摧毀性可能沒有像飛彈飛來飛去風火連天但是實質上對於國家的摧毀性不亞於一場戰爭所以為什麼我想說精創計畫如何確保今日的研發投資不會在明日的衝突中輕易被摧毀或癱瘓呢所以我剛剛跟委員報告就是說我們的最先進的技術研發一定是在台灣我們並沒有外移 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2643.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2657.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
但是我们在生意上一定要拓展台湾的实力这就是我现在等一下要问到的我们一直在讲我们最先进的技术我们原发技术都是在台湾那主委半导体产业最核心的资产是什么人 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2658.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2684.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那想請問這些也是我們敵對勢力我們敵對的國家在半導體上面競爭的國家不管是惡意競爭就是敵對那在這種惡意勢力灰色地帶滲透挖角甚至衝突時定點打擊的目標那想請問國科會作為科技主管機關針對半導體關鍵研發人才的保護包括防滲透防挖角防威脅協同國安單位制定什麼樣的防護措施呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2685.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2699.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我们最近政府对这一点已经更进一步强化国科会现在也跟法务部非常紧密在合作具体有些什么具体有些什么这个具体我们有一些机密的这个措施是不方便透露但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2700.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2718.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我們在保護我們敏感科技我們還有已經進到我們的國安法的範圍之內這個是國會跟經濟部還有法務部是一起在合作的所以這個請委員放心我們絕對會珍惜我們自己的科技實力 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2718.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2732.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
其實本席所擔憂的不是只有外部的攻擊因為你剛剛講說如果您認同ICT的產業外移ICT產業那個產業鏈包括設計都要外移是一種國家實力的對外延展的時候那不好意思我先讓我講完 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2733.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2759.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
因為不管是說去伸展國家實力然後我們的台灣好不容易培養出來的理工博士科技人才居然到美國去當美國公民當美國的F1簽證的時候然後我們這樣子來講我們這樣子就會知道我們內部的空洞化會很明顯我們頂尖的理工博士人才因為新資結構的失衡我們在台灣是在增加沒有在空洞化我們是這樣講 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2761.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2784.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
我們這樣講當如果說我在美國待過很久一陣時間當美國如果你能拿美國簽證你能在美國落地生根的時候你就會在美國落地生根因為台灣我還沒講我們很多美國落地生根又回到台灣來貢獻的也非常多新資的結構失衡大量流向業界這個不是事實啦我們在台灣在增加當中我們在中科南科都在持續在擴敞 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2786.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2804.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
最不可能不可能是空洞化要培養的人才在這一段時間之內大幅度的所以委員不要再我們只是在討論那這個事情如果說真的會是事實所以我跟委員澄清一下我們現在是討論說這個未來趨勢是很明顯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2807.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2834.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那你如果說現在不是事實但是未來是不是趨勢我們是不是要把ICT產業鏈流到美國去有沒有這個可能性有沒有就好我們到廠商到美國設廠擴產那設廠到美國的時候他們的人在美國如果要合法工作是不是要F1簽證是不是要拿到綠卡我們當然盡量要拼我們要拼的是當地的人才啊請問一下拿到綠卡他們會不會回來要擴充台灣的實力要拼用當地的人才這個才是正途 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2834.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2848.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
主委我們今天不是在做討論我們是在討論說所謂的人才我講的就是事實台積電在美國你講的是事實但是我講的是趨勢而且我們都可以不是預設立場大家都可以看到的趨勢的時候現在人才斷層就是國安斷層我們不是也有外國的廠商到台灣來設廠嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2850.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2876.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
他到台湾来他也要聘用台湾的人才对可是我们比较起来我们到美国去也是聘用美国人才外部的人才跟我们我们把我们最互相交流把我们最优质的人才往美国送然后把外国人才进来的时候并不是他们最优秀的人才的时候我不同意委员的讲话我觉得这件事是很危险的事情我们不是把人才往美国送不是这样讲话我们是要扩充我们的实力我们在美国交汇了当地人才制造 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2877.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2905.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
幫我們做製造我們的實力就擴充了台灣的人力有限我們要在全世界做生意當然要往外擴充啊這樣台灣才會更強大啊我必須在這邊重新再提出一次主委我們今天要討論的我是相對來講我是想就是論是討論未來國安人才人才斷財你現在如果只是以現在的事實以現在你所認同的事實國科院是鼓勵我們的廠商往外擴展我鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2908.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2936.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
所以說蕭副總統講的話你完全認同我認同我們要把全世界跟台灣的連結要強化所以我當然我們要把我們的實力往外拓展讓全世界使用台灣製造的技術是不是我們台灣人才會外流呢會不會我們不會外流為什麼不會外流當美國的薪資是我們的三倍的時候為什麼不會外流我們要交流我們要跟別人學習當美國的薪資是我們的三倍到五倍的時候為什麼不會外流 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2937.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2955.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
不會外流我們的人才會往來國外也有人才會進到台灣來這個不叫外流我們要讓自己更強大不能夠鎖國你在業界待過吧你在業界待過就知道有一個人講過一句話人才為什麼留不住因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2957.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2986.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
錢給的不夠多心受委屈了那老實說錢給的夠不夠多是所有不管在商業人才裡面最主要的一塊我們台灣的經濟實力會一直不斷的進步可是我們是在跟美國的就業市場拼比我們是在跟美國的就業市場拼比我們是在跟日本的就業市場拼比我們的薪資結構就沒有人家強的時候我們的薪水就沒有人家高的時候我們還期待說用愛國心來一直把台灣人才留住這是對業界是不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2986.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3013.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
我們如果產生不往外擴散惡意的敵對勢力或者是要講敵意的勢力因為這是一個看不見煙消的戰爭所有國家針對半導體的優勢的消長都有可能去對台灣的威脅那這一點來講的時候我們就必須很現實的看到這些那我們現在在講人才會不會流失那你一直說 篤定說不會因為現在事實就不會現在我們產業鏈就還沒有開始移動委員 我的策略跟你完全相反 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3013.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3041.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
你講的目的我是同意的台灣要更強更強的話我要鼓勵我們強勢的產業往外擴散去增加我們的影響力這樣台灣才會越來越富有越來經濟實力越好我們的技術研發的資金會更多我比較擔心人才的培養而不是擔心說單單純純只是產業的流失我們最近你剛剛講過說台灣最核心的是人我們的優質人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3042.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3065.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
但是當我們的優質人才一批的被因為高薪而去美國的時候我就擔心這樣的存在 而這是趨勢 謝謝好 謝謝沛翔委員 主委請回座如果沛翔委員他這邊質詢的主委沒有回答完整的部分 請他會後再送資料給你接下來請萬美玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3075.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3101.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
好 谢谢赵伟我们有请吴主委请主委万文元好好 主委好主委我本期记得在国客会在去年113年的时候12月27号曾经发布过新闻稿指出才化法修正会影响200亿的科技预算有没有这件事有那后来今年有影响吗有今年有影响 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3103.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3116.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
今年有影響我們講的是我那時候講的就是下一年度就是明年啦你去年講的我當然是問你今年有沒有影響嘛所以今年沒有嘛對不對今年有啊因為我們的這個我在講今年的預算執行不是預算編列好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3118.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3133.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
執行沒有影響啦是嗎編列的時候你知道我在問什麼我們就不要用這樣的方式來今天做這個答詢好不好那我們又看到今年的7月16你又再一次說了因為財化法會讓明年的科技運算少200億你有這樣說嗎對不對有好 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3135.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3163.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那个去年113年的时候其实你当时说会有影响你有提到什么基础科研金创AI太空科技 静林科技都会少但是你看你刚刚回答本席没有影响所以去年列这些出来你去年的12月25号这是113年那列了这些其实事实上在今年没有减少那我们再来看那个今年的时候114年7月16刚刚当然你听我讲完再来报告好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3164.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3190.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
你都不聽你怎麼知道本席要問什麼啊你今天到底答詢怎麼回事啊你的態度比委員還差欸你如果不聽你怎麼知道今天大家要問你什麼對不起所以不是不可以這樣啦主席其實你就是應該要支持官員這樣子因為有時候你們都要用用反面的方法來什麼叫做用反面的方法委員質詢還要你教嗎主席我的時間要先暫停對不起對不起委員這時間真的要暫停這樣要怎麼質詢暫停一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3192.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3213.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那這樣溝通一下啦就是說我們委員會的委員在質詢還要他來教我們用什麼方式嗎對不起那你等一下可以修正不要再用這樣的態度嗎好好 謝謝主席那我們看到今年主委您又說到說我們就是這個編列預算因為財化法又要少200億那我請教一下你這個少200億是少什麼我們今年編的預算後來謝謝我們萬昭委的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3222.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3250.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我們並沒有少掉很多今年但是我現在擔心的是明年其實是明年你擔心嗎所以是你擔心但你有對外說少200億對不對而且說真的本心不願多做很多什麼政治的聯想7月16大罷免前你再繼續講說這個財化法又要少了200億我是不知道是不是要跟上行政院的腳步但是我從來不認為你是這樣的人所以我們明年的預算有少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3251.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3256.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
明年預算我們本來編列是1800億但是因為行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3257.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3285.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
整個總預算的額度就不足啦所以我們當然被迫要下降到一千六百多元所以你下修來我們看一下我們現在近五年來這是本席整理你的這個科技預算從一百一十一年一二一三一四一五年年增加每一年都在增加你先看這沒有錯嘛對不對沒有錯就到了一百一十五年我們還是增加呀 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3286.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3311.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
我們一定要快速增加當然增加我們也支持你的預算不是嗎委員會也很支持你的預算我們再來看下一張我們增加你的預算我們支持你的預算但你看到你自己看這個決算你根本錢也用不完你111年還剩餘了一億五千多萬那112年還剩五億八千多萬你113年還是剩一億多萬你根本用不完你執行率其實也不夠好報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3313.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3337.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
报告委员有时候会有剩余的原因是不可抗力的因素我同意啊像比如说我们在做太空那个主委我本席跟你讲我今天不是要跟你讨论说你预算为什么要少变200亿我也不是要跟你讨论说你决算这个用不完的是哪些东西但我现在要告诉你说在预算上面你去年说少200今年说少200事实上没有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3337.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3362.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
事实上不但是一直在增加而且你的这个决算也没有用完我想今天要跟你提的就是这个第一个预算增加第二个过去三年我觉得这个你的执行也没有到百分之百那当然您刚刚有提到财化法之后行政院呢这个就是整个去做了一些调节以后所以呢你今天不敢编到1800你编1600嘛那就奇怪了为什么我们行政院呢对我们的这个国防部就这么好 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3363.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3375.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
國防部他就增加啊 不斷的增加啊我昨天也問了 我今天也問了教育部部長啊大家都來買一張椅子五萬塊嘛 對不對莫名其妙國防部增加這樣難道是國防部的部長比較會捍衛他的預算嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3376.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3405.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
是不是所以我想这一点你也不用回答你去想一想你去想想这样对还是不对但是说真的主委你在本席的心中都不是那种意识形态的人你是一个来认真做事的人但我希望就不要跟这些事情沾上边再来我想也是要接着刚刚我们林沛翔委员问的我们深入一点来问我们看到郑立军副院长他在完成了台美第五轮的实职磋商之后 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3405.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3424.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那他有提就針對擴大對美的投資他提出了要協助美方建立台灣模式的產業聚落我剛看到這一句話的時候其實我有點擔心我也很shock為什麼我們一個台積電過去不夠他還要變成是整個產業聚落 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3426.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3453.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
我正在覺得納悶的時候我們蕭美琴副總統她接受外媒的訪問就直接講說台灣已經承諾美國要投資晶片產業不僅台積電還包括整個生態系就產業鏈全部要過去這就是他們說的產業聚落如果是這樣的說法跟這樣的文字其實讓國人非常的擔心那我想主委應該有非常關心這件事情你有參與相關的會議嗎這樣的結果你是贊成還是反對 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3455.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3478.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
這個只是講法的問題我跟委員解釋一下所以你的意思是說這是副院長跟副總統講法不好不是不是講法不好啦你說講法的問題啊我跟委員解釋一下行政院其實在政府院長領軍在跟美國做談判的過程當中行政院其實有好幾度邀請台灣的產業界來討論討論相關的到美國投資的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3482.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3496.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
因為有關稅的問題存在所以產業界就會考慮到說是不是應該到美國投資我知道啦 主委本席就是請教您嘛這個相關的會議您曾經參加過嗎有參加過 行政院的會議我參加過那這樣說吧 你是認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3498.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3525.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我認同我跟委員報告原因是什麼是因為產業界認為如果政府不協助我們的產業界把台灣非常有效率的聚落群聚我們開發工業區科技工業區科學園區等等這種經驗能夠組成國家隊到美國去一起去投資的話他們個別去效率是不高的主委啊 我都不懂了什麼個別去 群體去到底為什麼要去啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3526.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3542.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
這本來是我們的護國神山我跟委員報告我今天沒有跟你討論個別去 群體去大家一起去比較互相有安全你這個講法很奇怪但我請教一下你覺得我們整個這樣主委我先問你你覺得我們不管是你剛剛說的個別去 群體去什麼產業聚合區會不會消落 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3550.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3558.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
會不會削弱我國自己半導體的競爭力就是不會嘛所以你能夠保證台積電等這些高科技的產業他們的技術絕對不會外流不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3560.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3589.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
你可以保證我保證你拿什麼保證廠商為什麼要把他技術外流呢有時候不是廠商要外流啊這有很多的因素在啊是不是台積電主委你不能太一廂情願真的你不能太一廂情願我覺得你有這個看法我尊重但是實際會不會產生我們所擔憂的事情不是不無可能的所以我們要做風險管控我們要組國家隊去就是為了要保護他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3590.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3601.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
他們不去不就沒事了嗎他們今天不去不就沒事了嗎他如果不去他在台灣他覺得他可能會虧本因為有關稅的議題當時剛去的時候還沒有在講關稅喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3606.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3628.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
有啦 已經在講了啦沒有 主委啊 所以你的意思是說現在你的意思是說如果台積電這些高科技的這些產業留在台灣就沒有發展了 你的意思是這樣嗎我們講的是台積電生態系是指的它的供應鏈供應鏈廠商要不要取得利益我認為啦 就是今天你有這麼執著的這樣子的看法當然啦 我是不知道您真的是這樣的看法還是不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3630.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3657.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
不好去打臉高層不過呢沒有沒有這是我們行政院的政策今天我想有很多的委員都會在這上面跟你做提醒畢竟你是我們這個主管我們所有科技這是最高的一個單位所以這些我們所有的提醒這些風險的這個評估我希望你回去的時候還是要細細去咀嚼我們今天所有講的議題那同時剛才談到人才外流這件事當然你也信誓旦旦說人才絕對不會外流但我必須要講 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3658.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3684.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我们过去也花了很多的时间跟精力我们教委会也支持很多的预算我们做人才的培养可是你说人才都不会外流吗人才是只有跟他交流吗我想本行没有那么乐观你看我们花这么多钱来培养可是今天不但台积电去整个产业链要去你想我们培养出来的人才留在台湾无用武之地所以我想这一点当然你刚刚回答配项委员我也有听 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3685.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3691.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那我希望你把今天我们给你的想法看法不同的角度回去其实还是要稍微去了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3692.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3721.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
你願意嗎謝謝委員指教接下來還有一點時間我想針對這一次這個艷澀湖的事件我們李鴻元部長有在講他說這此類高風險的地質災害政府應該要統合各部門的研究跟應變能力他也指出說我們現在我們都知道是農業部內政部還有經濟部這些單位在進行相關的研究可是資源重疊效率不好所以他建議要由國科會出面整合這一點你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3724.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3741.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
這個講法是好的是對的但是我們已經在做了我們國科會下面的國家災防中心就是在整合這些資訊我們所有部會的監測資料會匯整到我們國家災防中心來我們長期在做資料的分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3743.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3758.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
提供包含資訊跟決策的情報我知道你們已經有在做但我認為就是說參考剛剛李鴻元部長你也說對那我覺得我們高度要再拉起來然後那個寬度也要再拉寬那你剛剛講那個資訊我想最後一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3760.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3781.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
國科會所屬的災防科技中心喔在這一次的災害當中9月4號就已經建置了馬太安溪的驗射壺監測系統沒有錯嘛 對不對那9月21號的時候呢在這個應變中心的中央災害應變中心第二次跟第三次會議當中你有提到第二次的時候下午兩點你說要匡列兩鄉四村里275人的數據對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3783.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3797.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
是的好 但是呢隔沒有四個小時下午六點你把它匡列變成三鄉十二村裡一千八百戶對不對我請我們陳主任來回答所以主委不曉得嗎我曉得但是他細節他非常清楚好 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3799.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3827.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
委員你好我想在9月21號的上午我只想要問這兩個數字對還是不對這個第三次的這一個部分是對的現在目前出來的這兩個數字是對的嘛那本期就要問了短短四個小時為什麼數字落差這麼大說真的數字落差這麼大我相信其實不管你要叫地方去做疏散這是非常高非常困難的一件事情那我們提供這個數據的時間跟正確性就很重要可以簡單說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3828.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3854.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我們在三點鐘的時候有召開所有部會的會議然後還有跟縣政府還有跟地方光復慣容還有那個鄉鎮包括鳳林一起開會開視訊然後我們已經決定因為那個李教授你簡單打好不好我們周圍都站起來很簡單打那台大團隊已經把這些東西都已經告訴我們所以我們就跟地方聯絡所以我們劃出了目前這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3855.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3876.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
三個鄉鎮 十二個村 總共1800好了 我想這個有答跟沒答一樣我只有一個期許我覺得像這麼重大一個事件其實未來我們怎麼強化自己更精準的監測那更詳細的數字那效率跟速度我就再把它提升這個是我對國科會的期許 好嗎所以我們會繼續努力 謝謝委員謝謝萬美林委員 官務員請回座現在請柯之溫委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3891.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3891.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我們是請主委請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3897.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3923.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
科委委员好主委好你讲到人才的培养我看前面两个委员又让你火气出来其实主委你还是可以有一个比较用你自己自身的经验来回应这个问题在我们那个年代我们到美国去念书我们都有拿到奖学金我们都拿到奖学金的时候美国也没有要求我们要不要留下来对不对我们只要是那个环境可以然后我们如果有合法的一个签证我们就会有自我的一个选择 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3924.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3940.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
没错嘛而且所有的人才进进出出一个国家能够花费这么多钱他也没有跟你签任何的终身约他们是见过那个部分所以也不应该去argue到底是薪资好美国薪资很好美国的税也很高美国还有文化种族还有种种的 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3940.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3960.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
一些的问题不是薪资好他就会愿意留在那个地方而且当我们在培养很多外国人到我们这边来我们也是希望能够有台湾的经验他至于是不是要出到他们自己的原始国家那也不是我们所可以掌控的这是一个人才互通我想特别是在高级人才里面大家共同的语言没错吧这个我同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3960.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3985.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
完全嘛所以說你就把你自身經營當然說已經有很多美國公司也想recruit你啊可是你最後還是決定回到台灣也有你的堅持嘛所以人才的互通我想在這全世界都是一樣的你用這個角度的利基點不用去辯論到底是如何你知道耗費太多時間這點你同意嗎好不好但我還是要來問一下人才的問題啊因為最主要是Trump他實在太unpredictable他的這些對於這個所謂的 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3986.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4000.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
美国其实是最重视人才融入的地方它因为移民的政策还有包括签证的问题的确让很多世界很多国家就很想把这些人才弄出去嘛所以你可以看到嘛中国启动的K签证的计划欧盟1600亿 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4001.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4027.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
然后日本又是7亿然后韩国也退出了新加坡很多人想去他就完全取消了这个working permit这样的要求台湾我们目前来说我刚刚特别提到的有没有提供一个好的环境那才是留住人才最重要的那在这个布局当中请问国科会在1600亿的这样子的预算当中你到底有哪些因应的策略相对于其他国家 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4030.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4045.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
台湾要吸引人才进来从国外进来的话当然还有很多的配套措施要做但是在科技研发的部分我们当然现在是积极以我们办的其实我觉得我们台湾其实你最需要是我们的team |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4045.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4063.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
还有很多年轻的科技人才要进来我随便举个例子来说他愿意进住进来孩子的因素搞不好取得很好啊如果我的小孩能够在这个地方有个完整的环境等等之类的那你看我就忍不住要提到了我们很多的这个实验高中特别在我们的陆组的实验高中现在招生不足哎 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4063.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4092.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
新族是每個人都搶得進去我們陸族沒有人要進去那你就去思考一下為什麼會是這樣遭都遭不滿因為呢他剛要進駐的時候呢他用我們的一個幼昌國中根本就不是一個for這一群高級人才要進來的你當你沒有辦法配套沒有讓孩子有一個好的部分裡面他其實會降低很多的誘因我只是提醒這個主委很多因素不是只有一個薪資旁邊的配套你把它處理好那是我們的角色我們的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4093.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4102.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
好不好 我只是提供這個部分給你了解 我們跟高雄市政府是 你這個部分你看連招生部我們也覺得你這邊是要讓人家來 孩子最重要因為是第一年 建設還在進行對 建設還在做 所以你要加速加快這才好啦 好 我的時間還剩下來 我們就回去來看我們的數據提到人才 我們也花了一些錢但是你看你的核定的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4117.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4135.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
1 1 2 1 1 3你看你所核定的這個層面當中你到底有沒有做一些所謂的這個後續的一個追蹤你看1 1 3 1 4各補助六千萬實習生每天一千元最多補助九十九十天然後呢最高是九萬那這些所謂外籍人才呢我們這邊大概是從哪些國家進來的最多哪些國家對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4142.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4167.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
哪里印度印度印度他本身的科技就很强了他来我们这个地方但是你做这些东西你没有后续里面他们都有多少人实习完毕之后对台湾因为我们钱花出去我刚刚虽然讲人才交流但是你还是要让他们对台湾还是有留下一些他后续的绩效你目前为止我说实在我没有看到任何的报告好像现在才要开始来做执行还有呢我再看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4168.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4183.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
你要去追蹤還有包括你看你目前來說一日補助了284一餐補助了560個到底有多少人會留下來就讀或是就業目前為止我也沒有看到你們給我任何的詳細的這就是錢花出去我沒有看到績效啊對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4185.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4213.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
主委我会让你有机会讲然后我们再看看同样是你看延揽客座科技人才这几十年来你的人才的人数很明显下降的趋势所以表示刚刚前面两位委员不是没有道理的他们是担心我们的人才培养好到国外去人家不回来但是我担心的是我们给那么多人请他留下来人家也不想留包括你的下降趋势所以我们台湾的确在诱因的部分里面是差其他国家是差很多这是我们要面对的现实 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4214.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4236.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
我們其實不是說有一直下降都是大概維持這個數字但是很多我們其實有增加人來但是他們進到業界的會比較多我要有數字我還要有數據因為這個部分裡面我們也是交流我不想違反我前面所講交流當中你的績效在哪裡我們目前沒有看到可是數字裡面顯然是一個下降而且 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4237.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4264.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
报告委员就是我们有努力在调查但是台湾是一个自由民主国家我们问他他不见得会讲他到哪个地方工作那你就要克服就像我们调查我们毕业生的就业部分我们要克服但是我们可以从老委会那边投保的老保的部分来做你有很多方法来你是国科会你一定有方法我只是提出来我需要看到一些的绩效而且我还这边让我想到的你刚刚望美玲委员讲的我本来事实真的是觉得很 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4265.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4292.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
那個主委你真的是從科技從科技來真的講話我們還是距離這個政治遠一點今年並沒有減少200億明年1600億減少200億比你預估的1800億少但還是史上最高的國科會的預算雖然我知道你有很多事情要做但是你的重點是要跟你的行政院長去要為什麼創造史上最高力國防預算沒有減我們的國科會減 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4294.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4321.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
所以目前不是在裁划法是你行政院沒給你這麼多錢你要冤有頭債有主你只要把裁划法弄出來更講出來難道科技不上普發一萬嗎主委這不是你應該說的好嗎我們要就實來去講你這樣會讓很多的委員會跳腳不是裁划法問題是政府對於很多的priority沒有把你們放在這邊所以才給你減200億要把它澄清清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4323.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4336.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
其實我指的是說今年年初其實上個會期委員也在問說今年沒有是明年會有影響那明年你的預算還是史上最多所以呢但不是問題不在才化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4337.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4361.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
主委 問題不在才化法是行政院的Priority沒有把你放在跟國防跟其他一樣多我只是幫助你把事情釐清所以希望你在未來講話的過程當中不要製造國會會很多額外你要去解釋的負擔好不好這樣啦 跟你說一下啦來 接下來還是講了這麼多的錢我們還是要問到一個非常你們的管理的問題郭研院院長有沒有在蔡院長在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4364.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4368.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
來 這部長 所長這都要知道一下你們國研院是不是有對於離職作業辦法有這個所謂的迴避原則應該有吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4373.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4394.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
有的嗎對不對然後呢你們中心要聘那我就請問啊你們這下面有一個生物中心過去不是這個名字中心主任聘清潔為有幾職的法律諮詢顧問還有中心的配偶在你們願聘當中是當顧問可是長期在你們中心裡面所有的事情都在你們中心請問你有沒有違反這樣的作業原則請問有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4395.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4408.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
報告委員因為願聘的顧問因為國務院底下有七個中心那實際上在技術專業上有必要的時候會跟中心一起互動那你有中心互動那你中心互動裡面長期進駐到你們這個中心會不會自達連你們這個回覆原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4413.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4436.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
你雖然你的聘騎士你的聘任是在你們院的聘顧問這個人卻長期在這個中心進駐然後呢跟配偶完全在同樣一個中心這是閃避法規啊這完全就是你們自己在這個地方的落實性有沒有有沒有落實先告訴我你如果可以聘親姐姐我有幾職顧問是直系親屬可以親姐姐那你要你們的法務處的處長幹什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4438.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4453.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
你可以先回答这个问题而且我可以一边让你来回答这是你们的法规在这个地方而且呢很多地方还要接付你们的爆料里面你们还常常用你们的自筹款自筹款也是公款你们往下一个你们自筹款里面还可以来做一个 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4453.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4477.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我研究員今年年底才會從美國回來幫他先添購了1400萬也是讓你們願聘的顧問來專門使用而且這麼貴的這個儀器當中光是做訓練一般人不敢碰觸這都是你們在那使用然後告訴我只要有人一邊說這就叫你們自籌款你們那麼多自籌款你們有沒有違反公務人員的認定你們號稱都是叫自籌款 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4478.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4497.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
自籌款也是公款自籌款可以這樣去用嗎而且呢據說你們還要在這個給你們這個生物中心4年3億元永遠你告訴我會有更多的剩餘款然後每次把它當作自籌款自籌款是這樣使用的嗎院長這個東西你要不要調查清楚只有你們這個生物中心是這樣子嗎還是其他中心也會有 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4498.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4523.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
你要么就有两种选择一个就是修改你们的法规第二个就是就是让你们没有修改法规状况之下你就好好的去测查还有在下面一个在这个过程当中呢你们在实行这个这个兔的安乐死的过程因为药剂不足你让这只兔子然后呢疼痛的到处乱撞然后呢最后然后实际伤害录下来把它当心得报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4524.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4541.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
院长如果这件事情让你的Triple Alex知道的话你觉得会不会影响到你们未来在整个地方对动物实验上面的一个部分这都是你所想的里面下面所有里面所发生的所有的问题院长请你一并回应 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4542.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4569.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
是 報告委員第一個部分就有關聘任資深顧問的部分那特別因為這個資深的顧問呢他的專長是在3R那這是現在整個生物科技領域裡面非常重要你可以你聘在院然後你為了躲避原則因為你不能有配偶不能有執行新竹在同一個中心所以你就在院裡面去聘但是他實際的工作地方是在同一個中心是這樣子嗎跟委員報告其實3R的計畫其實每個月是我在負責主持的是院部在負責主持 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4569.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4589.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
你要不要去看看這個主任直系的這個配偶的主任辦公室在這個生物中心所做的每一件事情主持的會議甚至出國都是這個樣子然後說是要自儲款院長你調查清楚而且不是只有這個中心調查清楚你旗下的七個中心有沒有調查清楚因為這是屬於這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4590.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4617.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
所以主委這件事情也請你為務必督促我需要有一個非常清楚的檢查報告我要嗎 你就是修 你看敢不敢修改你們的法令你不修改法令的話就把你們七個下面的這個中心全部清楚有沒有盡情繁衍的問題有沒有拿著怨顧問的這個問題然後再做完全不是這樣的部分有沒有出國的爆炸有沒有做什麼都完全用你們自籌款我要一併要很清楚的調查報告這已經不是一個中心所提出來主委你可以做得到嗎我請國務院想進 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4619.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4648.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
包括我刚刚说的Triple Alex的这样子的一个实验的部分当初有这个漏针有漏液的这个问题让我们的生物是这样子的方法来惨死这些都是主委这些虽然不是你主辖但这些的管理的原则可以反映出我们在培养这些人才培养这个法规制度里面的一个制度层面这个每个部分我们都要够严谨你才要来告诉我们这个中心是值得大家被信赖的你同意吧同意谢谢委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4650.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4657.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
謝謝克珍委員質詢主委請回座接下來請劉書斌張委質詢有請吳主委請吳主委劉委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4676.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4696.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
好 主委好那今天跟你來討論的是在國科會的在預算這部分跟業務報告的內容瓜瓜是跨域統的部分我們看到的是在國科會跟中研院他們在預算的這部分編列當中都有關於叫淨零碳排那國科會這邊有的六項 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4700.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4725.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
中研院也有五項 那兩個共同的部分就是在去碳燃氫跟升值碳匯這部分那我們就想要請問一下主委喔 那您對於跟中研院在六大領域當中有兩項重疊上面的話 在淨零碳去碳燃氫跟升值碳匯這部分的 它在經費跟研究時程上跟成果上面有什麼樣的差異性 可以做一下簡單的說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4726.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4745.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我們原則上來講國科會編這個科技預算是包含幫中央研究院還有行政院的各部會一起編列這個科技預算當然中央研究院還有一部分預算是他直接從總統府那邊編的但是我們過程當中我們都會一起看 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4746.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4760.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
是比较粗略型的本来就是架构型的在所谓的跨部位协作机制但是你们是作为研发单位是研究机关这部分的时候到底在就是说对续碳燃金跟生殖碳会你们预定有什么样的成果出现呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4761.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4780.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
譬如說去探南京市中央研究院的計畫但是他也必須要跟行政院合作因為要跟台電要做這個驗證跟台電做驗證台電是屬於經濟部經濟部這邊也需要要做一些你這樣講還是一個比較架構型的部分因為沒有看到你在實際上成果的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4780.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4807.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
那我繼續再問下去繼續再往下面看到說因為研究的能量的CG是非常重要的那我們繼續往下看因為在你們的預算的部分雖然是做在明年的規範編列可是你們在承建114年的亮點成果當中有四個那我特別針對到我們所重視的半導體的部分看到一個是開發光電半導體低碳雷射智慧製造技術這一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4808.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4834.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
有這樣的一個內容我們就想要問的是說這些都是一個複合式的技術整合特別是很重要的是包括說你們用到這部分是用到整合共用平台的一個設施這些部分好 很重要但是我們就想問一下既然因為出現了一個字就是我這個字應該寫下低碳雷射製造技術對笨寶體的研發的定位是什麼就請問包括經費是邊月是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4835.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4852.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
這個是我們國科會我們資助學術研究機構在智慧製造我們需要能夠有低碳的低排碳的這個也就是節能的這種設備那這個雷射相關的應用的設備非常的多 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4853.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4881.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那我們當然會允許學界提出他們的這個想法好 謝謝你如果這樣子預算還沒有說出數字那我們現在看一下這邊就您所說的部分你也是在做這個半導體的這個專家那我們現在看一下在台灣半導體的研發焦點當中其實有三大類別第一個部分是在光學模擬就是在光刻機的部分第二部分是雷射晶片的研發第三個是雷射光學系統的這個整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4882.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4906.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
那就在這三大部分的時候呢相對於我們的雷射研發技術的優勢是雷射晶片設計相對我剛才說三大類的部分那三者的這三部分的研發應該以哪些為優先這三個都很重要優先順序最後要做成系統的話這三部分都要有如果缺了一個就沒有辦法完成最後的系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4907.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4922.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
好 主委您是做半導體研究的專家您在這邊我們其實知道前面的光學模擬跟雷射晶片研發因為我們的特殊性就是在雷射晶片的研發我們的強項在晶片沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4925.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4951.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
對 但是雷射晶片的設計 對吧而且是在製成這邊的研發能量嘛 對不對但是雷射的部分因為它用到化合物半導體所以化合物半導體的人才就非常重要就是因為要產生光嘛好 那如果這樣子表示這樣的政策是由國科會由上而下的這樣子去要去推動有一批的經費在編列 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4952.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4969.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
是 我們的政策面就是要推動這種產業但是這個產業在產業之前要有學術的研發所以我們就會有這種專案鼓勵學者來做研發好 那目前我們在我們的助理在找出來的發現上說在 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4971.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4978.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
科研的經費當中有420億原來還沒有被刪掉的部分就是有420億現在也是408億他是屬於一個專業項目但是我剛才就說你看起來是有點像目的性的研發我覺得應該確認這一點是說由上到下已經整個是這樣子一個安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4991.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5016.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
那我們現在繼續往下看的時候可是呢我們目前我們找到的資料當中出現到的是說雷射低碳製造的這個技術它是一個探索位置在領域當中那真正的一個實現的話是目前是國科會工程技術研發處裡面到長期的支持那完成那個專題研究計畫的一個成果並沒有是一個新編列的一個獨立項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5017.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5043.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這個部分我們可以看到一些證據呈現出來了就是包括的是今年的6月4號的時候你們把它當作亮點去研究那我們所看到的這個資料是在清華大學的動力機械工程研究所的李明昌教授他所拿到的這個計畫當中他說他在就是呈現出來他在光電半導體這部分在雷射的低碳的雷射技術上面的一個製造技術有這個突破等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5043.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5065.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
但是給的經費就在一個百萬到千萬之間因為它是一個個別型的專業計畫那我就剛才再問的是您這邊部分一直都還沒有說到如果是對於光學的雷射光學的這一部分的尤其是比較在屬於後端的就是在製造這一部分的部分你的經費到底是多少因為看起來的話你們剛才沒有說他的經費是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5066.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5088.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我們有時候匡列經費就是這個大的範圍但是學界的教授要提出什麼樣的計畫我們事先沒有辦法預期所以並沒有辦法區分說剛剛講譬如說三部分哪一部分是多少錢這個倒不見得會完全準確主委所以你們目前沒有這三大類的研發經費嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5091.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5106.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
包括委員前面那個李老師的計畫是在我們智慧製造這個政策專案底下的那右邊提到這幾項是跟未來矽光子有關的這個研究對 那你是未來嘛 對不對所以現在沒有編嘛 對不對是不是在114年沒有這個是100 115的 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5109.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5125.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我們在115是有一個矽光子的專案對我知道你們今天業務報告已經寫了已經有很多學者主動提出相關的這個研究對所以這個地方就是非常的你知道這個政策的研發當中其實那個連續性是看出來是有一個斷點的因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5126.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5131.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
你們在114年當中並沒有針對這個部分去提出來的有當作一個重點的政策目標當作是一個預算去編列因為這一部分那我們為什麼會這樣說呢因為事實上我們看到這裡台灣的雷射技術的領域的發展光學系統的部分你可以看到如果是一個完整的雷射光學系統裡面它就有這五大部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5152.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5173.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
可是在台灣的研究重點這部分呢我們仍舊是在驅動晶片跟控制系統晶片設計上面是強項啊但是在後面的在光學系統整合光學元件設計雷射光源開發這部分看到前面兩者是中等可是它的後面的雷射光源就是你們今天在講到說在變到115年這部分它是較少較弱的項目啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5174.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5190.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
是 那個委員講的沒有錯就是因為這個樣子我們才要發展因為矽光子是現在我們AI新時代建設裡面一個很重要的項目這個項目的重要性是因為我們將來在資料中心的設備將來要從這個銅線的資料傳輸的設備要進到光纖資料傳輸的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5197.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5210.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個過程當中所以它是後端的嗎它是屬於在後端的傳輸的部分嗎對 就是我們的晶片在做運算我們已經很強了但是我們有很大量的訓練的資料還有我們叫做應用的時候叫influence這個資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5215.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5234.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
製造量都很大我們要跨設備之間傳輸就要變成以後要用光纖光纖還要再進到我們的機櫃裡面不是只有在外面的這個纜線而已那到機櫃裡面要跟矽的半導體要結合我們很強的矽半導體所以現在全世界都希望跟台灣來合作做這個矽光子 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5236.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5256.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
能夠從細的晶片到光的這個晶片能夠整合在同樣的封裝以及這個光的模組所以我們要發展這樣的這個技術所以就加強投入主委你現在所表示的意思是說你們的這樣的歷程是從114年沒有編只是一個個別型的有人研究計畫生成計畫那個自由型的研究我們都會支持但是圖案就是在115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5257.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5284.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
就算114年出現這個成果啦或是說怎麼樣考量你們就直接到115年在編列就是今年在編115年預算之後你就把它放進去是這樣的意思嗎是 就是來鼓勵我們要做光學研究光系統的 光通訊的等等然後就能夠整合到我們的這個細光值可是你現在看喔這個部分你現在的雷射光源的開發這一部分事實上是真的是較少的那目前我請問一下那其他國家的在這個領域上面的研究是跟我們領先程度怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5284.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5297.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
其他也有一些先進國家我們也希望他們要跟台灣來合作不管是美國日本歐洲都有是他跟我們合作但是還是說他們已經在領先我們去協助我們去幫我們去學習什麼之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5298.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5317.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
這個在科學研究上面台灣其實並沒有落後只是說在產業的應用上面我們比較少那我們需要從科學研究加強這種系統層級的整合這個是需要花時間的那你預計大概多久會有一些成果出現我們編的大概四年未來這四年那這個經費多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5319.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5341.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
經費我們原來零零星星的在跟矽光子有關的計畫大概一年大概三億左右三億嗎一年大概三億左右零零星星就是矽光子對但是明年15年我們增加了5億讓它提高到8億因為我們要加強這方面的研究的能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5342.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5360.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
好 主委你這樣講可能有點前後矛盾還是說現在真的是初期階段而已因為這麼三億而已那你現在就是你們在今天的報告當中呈現來的雷射精密光學跟半導體的製程也許是新的領域但是看起來在應用裡面就像你說說應用真的距離還差很遠 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5362.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5383.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
報告委員因為委員談的就是雷射在製程設備上的這個應用那是智慧製造但是我講的是整個矽光子我剛講的是整個矽光子在明年的預算會增加了5億大概頭頭會到8億所以你覺得慢慢的以後繼續在4年之後再繼續再編應該是有機會在多少年時程上可以達到一個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5383.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5408.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我們現在編的預算明年增加5億但是卓院長有承諾說如果我們進展順利的話因為這個對台灣產業界非常重要可以逐年再增加我們希望可以這樣好 那到時候會造成什麼樣的效果我想這是非常重要因為這邊可能是跟中研院的物理光學研究領域事實上他才是扮演主力的當然我們希望說你們剛才那個做政策的轉折其實是 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5409.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5428.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
有點快就是剛才說的113年113年都沒編那114年有一個亮點然後之後後來看到這個趨勢這一部分我希望你國會這邊就做一個這邊的政策轉折部分做一個報告給到本席好嗎好 謝謝就希望說更出來是一個政策性的對我們台灣都是好的事情好 謝謝主委謝謝蘇冰 張偉質詢主委請回座接下來請葉宇源之委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5451.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5453.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
麻烦请主委 谢谢请吴主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5458.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5480.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
葉委員你好所有人好因為我們國科會算是掌管我們科技那現在因為台灣現在科技重點是半導體AI但我們看到我們的賴清德總統還有我們副總統蕭美琴都一直在講就是說鼓勵我們台積電到美國去設廠而且不是只有台積電還包括整個產業鏈生態系 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5484.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5499.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
那我想以主委您的這個專業您覺得如果鼓勵台積電還有生態系到美國去設廠對台灣的科技會不會有影響因為大家很擔心說會不會產生空洞化產業空洞化的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5500.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5524.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
包委員 我覺得不是空洞話因為我們台積電現在在台灣的投資還持續在增加我們還持續在擴敞當中這是第一點第二點 我們的研發一定是留在台灣的先進製程的研發留在台灣會到美國去也是因應市場的需求市場的需求就是台積電最先進的製程它重要的客戶都在美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5525.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5545.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那也是因為大家也都知道因為美國政府的要求他們自己的廠商也希望能夠在美國製造好沒關係所以你認為不會有影響就對了那我來跟您請教幾個問題第一個問題是我們現在國會會有一個大南方的新矽谷的計畫俗稱南科四期那現在台積電已經確定要進駐了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5549.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5554.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
現在還沒有確定還沒有確定喔因為那時候看到新聞報導是說台積電要進駐而且是先進製程 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5558.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5580.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
我們現在是他有提出希望政府協助要開發園區的土地因為我剛剛提到過台電還是持續需要在台灣再投資所以政府正在努力來尋找合適的土地其中台南的沙崙是其中一個可能性我們已經經過可能性的評估已經送行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5581.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5605.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
在合定當中行政合定以後我們就會進到第二階的環評環境影響評估所以現在他有意願然後也申請了只是說現在還在環評所以你的意思是說他有意願進駐如果一切法規各方面都沒問題的話他都是確定要進駐的嗎也要看最後產業真正的需求因為環評可能還要再兩年我知道 現在他預計是投資多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5609.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5616.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這個投資還不一定因為也是市場一直在變化那現在有掌握他先進製程是怎麼樣的製程嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5617.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5639.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
目前台積電在高雄男子園區兩奈米的製程我是說大南方氣鼓計畫南科士旗未來台積電的這個製程那個新的製程從兩奈米會一直往一奈米陸續新的這個製程會陸續出現所以到時候新的園區出來以後他會用哪一個製程也是依照他 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5640.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5665.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
當時市場的客戶的需求來決定所以2奈米下去還有1.8 1.6 1.4等等會一直往下走主委再請教一下因為企業的投資資本就是這麼多如果因為美國的關係 市場關係他去美國投資而且我們現在政府的態度是好像蠻鼓勵台積電去投資因為我也不太知道說為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5666.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5691.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
明明就是企業企業自己決定市場但我們政府要一直宣傳說鼓勵台積電去然後生態系去讓美國再次偉大都讓我覺得說好奇怪我們的政府官員為什麼一直要讓美國再次偉大站在台灣的角度如果我們台積電資本上限就是這樣去了勢必會影響到國內的投資當然你會講說還是會有投資但它可能投資更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5692.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5714.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
原本可能投資更多因為去了所以投資少一點其實對台灣來講不管是在產業的發展各方面一定會有影響所以我們那個卓榮泰院長講說不會有影響因為山在台灣台灣就是山沒有人移得走我不知道這句話是怎麼突發奇想想出來的山不會整座移走但是只要一座山的幾個山頭我覺得都是會對台灣影響你認為這個對台灣來說是好的發展嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5718.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5743.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
包括我個人 我認為是好的發展在政府的態度也是這個樣子的原因是這樣啦我剛剛已經報告過說第一 我們研發是留在台灣第二 台積電在台灣的投資現在的這個速度現在的速度是遠不過市場的需求市場的需求是遠高於我們台灣的製造能夠應付的量它最大的客戶 最重要的客戶大部分都在美國 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5744.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5772.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
所以在美國投資是符合美國的利益也符合台灣的利益所以是對雙方都是好的那再來我就是這個南科沙原生態園區提醒一件事情因為現在那個企業都很強調ESG那現在大南方新矽谷的計畫裡面因為裡面有一些保育類的動物比如說草蕭你們是有規劃18公頃的地做生態區不過這個部分就提醒一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5774.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5789.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
這個這一塊因為當地還是會有出現一些可能會對生態破壞希望你們可以注意企業發展跟生態發展的兼顧謝謝委員這一點我們非常重視其實我們從去年開始就已經緊密的在做這個生態的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5791.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5813.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
也跟所有的生態保育的團體也做過溝通特別是在南部地區南部地區不是只有沙崙從雲嘉南到屏東都有草削的棲息跟密實地這些我們整個林保署農業部的林保署也花很大力氣跟國會在合作當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5814.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5828.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
怎麼樣去鼓勵我們地方政府台南市政府也投入相關的規劃保護這些我們非常重要的原生種的物種能夠在我們經濟發展的需求之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5834.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5850.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
也把他保護得更好不是放任他自身謝謝主委然後再來因為國會會也負責能源科技看你們也有一個計畫然後也開很多次會我發現我不知道等一下可以請主委證實一下因為我發現現在賴政府好像有點要放棄光電跟風電了 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5851.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5866.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
特別是光電這一塊像之前一直在推水庫上面有浮電的光電板後來因為光電板造成很多問題所以現在經濟部 農業部居然講說只要地方政府不同意光電板就不設感覺就變得非常消極 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5867.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5888.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
那如果光電跟風電沒有要做的話綠電顯然就是沒有辦法達標嘛現在的目標是說好像2030年綠電要到30%那我就想問說如果光電 風電沒有積極要推的話請問一下現在政府是要用準備要用什麼能源來補啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5890.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5910.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
報告委員我們綠能獲得的方式目前主力當然就是太陽光電跟離岸風電太陽光電跟離岸風電因為台灣自己的土地這個我都知道我是說以你們科技研究的角度你有知道說政府現在準備要用什麼能源來補嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5912.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5923.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
因為電對產業也很重要現在正在努力要增加的綠電有包含地熱地熱都很有限地熱其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5925.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5948.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
台灣地熱很有限所以國會現在有研究說接下來地熱會大幅的增加嗎我們鼓勵在學術研究當然各種可能的能源的取得我們都鼓勵所以地熱配合經濟部在做的一些實驗經濟部包含中油等等另外一個就是小水利的發電我們只要小水利發電還牽涉到社會韌性的功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5952.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5971.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這些東西我們都會同步去發展所以你現在沒有一個比較具體的都是說再發展再發展我們要比較具體的國會的任務是先期的學術研究所以現在還在學術研討就對了這學術研究我們都支持甚至那感覺上就是並沒有在幾年內並沒有一個可以替代的綠能 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5972.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
5997.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
如果現在光電假設那個賴政府光電跟風電沒有要積極發展的話國會這邊還在做其他小水利跟地熱的掀起的學術研究那顯然就是綠電我覺得會有很大的缺口那綠電有很大的缺口現在又沒有核電那就火力全開那火力全開又跟國會現在要推動的那個淨零碳排目的又背道而馳 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
5998.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6021.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
國科會應該在這方面多建議一點最後一眼時間 我跟你請教一下因為大家現在都很關心說為什麼現在很多教授都沒有研究經費因為國科會明明就編那麼多錢編了那麼多錢但教授又講說沒有研究經費教授研究不是應該是國科會的重點業務嗎這個訊息是錯誤的有的教授講說 媒體報導說他用微波爐在做實驗 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6023.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6043.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
沒有這件事他說沒有經費買設備所以只好用微波爐在做實驗那國會一直講說我們變那麼多的錢然後真正需要錢的人又用不到那錢都花到哪裡去了是不是有把經費做最有效的運用我覺得大家在質疑這件事情那當然我們先看一些數據啦譬如說我們可以看到這幾年 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6045.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6072.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
申請件數第一個申請件數有逐漸下滑第二個當然它的核定的經費是差不多核定的經費差不多但是因為這幾年物價都上漲核定經費一直在增加每個計畫核定經費都在增加你看到2022報告委員數量下滑是因為我們核定多年期多年期的計畫增加了但是就個案而言所以現在沒有一些學者完全沒有研究經費完全沒有少 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6074.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6096.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
我們的研究機會是增加 沒有少特別也沒有少特定的教授如果表現不好人家評比差的話他可能計畫被減那完全是學術懲罰那謝謝諸位證實一件事情因為前幾個月在地方就常常傳說哪個教授錢被砍都是因為國民黨三預算沒這件事你講是說個別教授表現不好所以錢比較少 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6097.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6119.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我从来没有说过我是说地方我是说你证实说没有这个事因为我们在地方有很多谣言说哪个教授又被国科会砍预算都是因为蓝白三预算没这件事第二个就是新闻有报导说朱伟讲说财劃法过关是灾难对于研究经费会少很多我不太懂说财劃法过关跟国科会有什么关系 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6120.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6143.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
因為財化保要解決的是說很多年前因為精神精神之後很多事權大家沒有重新分配然後地方分到錢越來越少跟中央比起來收的稅收是75比25以前是60比40是因為要解決這個問題從頭到尾國科會的預算都不是編在地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6143.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6151.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
所以學者要申請錢都是跟中央申請所以這個部分到底跟國科有什麼關係像國防預算也沒有受到影響也是越編越多 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6152.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6179.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
有關係是因為我們行政院總預算編列的時候就少了那是行政院的問題這跟財化法無關行政院重視國防國防預算就越編越多明年的總預算3兆350億比今年還多所以是行政院不重視科技這跟財化法無關所以主委我跟你講你回答問題要針對問題財化法要解決的是中央跟地方的稅收這個業務本來就不是在地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6180.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6207.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這個業務本來就不是在地方可是財化法真的是影響到行政院的總預算沒有啊明年總預算三兆多耶那就是因為他還要再增加舉債才有辦法對啊 所以沒有差嘛總預算三兆多完全沒有影響還變多是他不重視科技嘛所以他給你砍了嘛國防他很重視所以國防預算提高我覺得主委這個部分你是要去跟行政院爭取不是去講一些無關的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6208.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6227.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
對 你覺得我科技要多一點你跟行政院爭取行政院重視的話他就會多編他就會多編就像重視國防一樣所以不要再我覺得第一個不要再扯才化法了因為這樣子主委您是科技人 產業人你不要繼續講那些政治的語言這樣我覺得也會影響好 謝謝好 謝謝委員主委請回座接下來請羅廷偉委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6243.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6270.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
好謝謝主席有請主委請胡主委好主委好主委我最近有針對這個形態及生理醫學學門的相關議題向國會所知想跟你請教幾個問題請問一開始所知時我有要求要提供計劃的主持人名單但為什麼一開始不敢提供計劃主持人的名字後來再一次所知才提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6273.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6285.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
我请我们深刻处杨处长谢谢委员我是深刻处杨台宏这个我必须很抱歉我一时疏忽我们第一次提供的时候有同仁说要小心各自小心各自后来 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6286.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6313.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
委員辦公室有再提醒我們那我們就再去確認說沒有各自的問題因為網路上都可以查得到所以我們後來就通通給委員了這個跟委員說一聲抱歉不好意思好 申請國科會的計畫為什麼有些申請單位是斷崖式的下罪隔年直接掛零這有符合國科會的補助原則嗎還是符合學門召集人的精神斷崖式的下罪要那些年輕學者怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6314.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6326.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
報告委員並沒有斷崖式下墜這件事我想我們的資料可能有誤還是你們的資料有誤這個應該要有待確認不要直接就說我們的資料是一定不對後續我們相關的資料我們來對一下嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6329.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6357.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
好不好那我想到底是你的認知上有差距還是怎麼樣我們會後再來研討一下可以嗎但是主委之後還有時間可以再討論但是我可不可以請主委能夠提供能不能提供近6年生理醫學學門所有計劃主持人的KPI能不能提供生理醫學學門現在召集人跟上一位召集人的KPI就相關的這個資料我要請楊處長可以提供嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6358.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6379.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
委員 這個我們每一件補助的計畫學者都會交成果報告那我不曉得委員的KPI跟這成果報告的意思是不是很接近他的paper的發表數量嘛被引用次數嘛這些東西是不是都可以把這相關的資料數據都給我們事實上這些資料我們本來就有所以應該沒有問題好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6381.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6410.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
那另外我要講的是不管是我剛剛所說的斷崖市的下墜相關的補助甚至有幾個委員在前面有提到我必須坦白講主委我在地方跑行程的時候也有遇到相關的教授在跟我們提到說因為才化法所以我們現在的補助都減少了這個才化法修的話是不是影響到我們我還是要講主委剛剛您所提的您的主要的回覆內容是因為才化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6411.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6439.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
造成行政院在編列預算對吧有所影響剛剛也有人跟你講事權下放然後呢現在整個預算會給地方我們還是要再講光教育來說就好了我自己在辦考察教育的相關的一些補助中央的補助也都直接講明啊可能明年度才化法下來以後呢因為台中市拿到262億所以中央的補助可能會從原本的五成變成兩成 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6441.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6467.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
甚至一直在討論各個學校的原本的冷氣費由中央直接要來支付的款項由地方要自己開始來支應所以我們看到不管是剛剛前面委員也有提到很關鍵的行政院有沒有重視科技有沒有編列更多預算給你們那是行政院自己要有的態度行政院我們看到他很重視國防重視國防沒有不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6467.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6486.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
但是科學也很重要啊有沒有一起並行有沒有一起努力這是行政院的態度然後不要一直告訴我們才化法去影響到了整個預算的編列但是卻知口不提將所有的事權下放給地方地方要自行因應最關鍵剛剛就講到嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6487.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6515.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
整個電費要求地方自己來付出的時候那相對應的行政院所編列的預算就不會再這個部分的支出就會減少所以有財化法預算下放也有支出減少總體的整預算都有提升的情況之下單單用財化法就要把它斷定是因為補助減少是因為財化法的關係我覺得這個是沒辦法接受的 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6516.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6539.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那我想另外再提到這個近年主權的AI成為全球關注的一個焦點根據史丹佛大學報告全球百大影響的一個AI模型幾乎由美國中國開發若AI逐漸成為國家基礎的一個設施其他的國家便可能受制於技術資料依賴在台灣這一場 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6540.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6559.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
全球科技主权战我认为不能够置身事外所以华硕的师董就指出2025年各国部署主权AI的关键转折点赖金德总统多次公开宣誓主权AI强调要建构据台湾特色的在地模型 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6560.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6584.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
然而目前国内的政策推动仍以硬体建设为主缺乏对资料的一个治理模型的开源人才的养成文化的保存整体的一个战略规划依据我们财团法人人工智慧科技基金会所提出的2025年台湾产业AI化调查的一个AI落地指引 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6585.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6592.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
整個資料的顯示台灣目前企業具有字眼語言以及模型能力的一個比例僅約12.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6594.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6616.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我们看到代表多数的企业仍然是依赖国外的一个API模型界面若AI的一个核心技术跟我们相关的资料长期都掌握在外国的一个平台当中我国的资料安全文化表述以及产业的一个创新上都将面临挑战 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6617.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6642.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
所以我認為在整個國家的戰略議題當中我們現在台灣是預計118年建構達到相對應的一個AI算力當時你們所訂定的一個目標若沒有完善的營運模式跟治理架構投資恐留於硬體的堆疊有報導就指出經濟日報 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6644.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6668.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
目前全球計算的整個伺服器市場中AI伺服器佔比已經提升到28%如何確保國家的算力中心能夠跟上技術的演進避免落後跟閒置這都是國科會目前應該要重視的一個課題更關鍵的是人才的培育台灣的年輕工程師學生大多人在使用什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6669.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6691.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
ChipGPTCloud等國際平台進行練習缺乏自主模型的訓練跟整個實驗的環境這種結構使我們在AI的運用根本就是沒有缺乏競爭力啊難以孕育下一個AI的一個培育他們能夠來作為設計啊所以就以上狀況我要回到老問題請問主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6694.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6703.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
國科會如何具體的界定主權AI的範圍在整個算力的中心的治理上國科會明確的方向是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6704.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6727.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我们当然在主权的部分我们也是鼓励以前虽然国会我们从政府的角度来导引做了一个台德模型但是现在我们已经把这个任务已经在鼓励我们的学业学界跟产业界还有中央研究院大家一起来努力希望借助民间的力量能够快速发展 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6727.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6743.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
适合台湾应用的各种各样模型我们已经编了经费在推动了同时我们也鼓励现在塑化部也在协助鼓励我们的民间的软体的业者来做相关的应用服务 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6744.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6764.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
讓我們也整合了台灣民間的力量來建構算力,不是只有政府建構算力。就是在發展主權AI的時候,我們在數碼部要負責我們的自由的語料庫的建置,我們的資料交換的標準,我們鼓勵民間來投入做應用。 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6766.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6783.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
使用AI做这个应用服务这个计划也会搭配着我们现在在大南方新系股以及其他的治理的方案明年的预算我们都编进来了也希望我们立法院这边来支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6784.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6803.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
有夢最美啦那我還是希望這個不爭的事實我還是要講這大多的模型語料都是英文要不然就是簡體中文AI模型在訓練的資料當中90%都是外國語料我們要如何貪主權對不對本席認為主權的AI核心不只是技術啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6804.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6822.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
更關乎文化主體國家韌性政府在推動AI的基礎建設的一個同時我們要思考如何讓台灣的語言價值法治能夠被AI理解反映讓AI不只是台灣使用的工具讓真正能夠有懂台灣的智慧體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6823.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6845.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
所以我們看到那些語料在點的時候都心有戚戚焉最根本的問題是主權AI的最終目標是要讓AI懂台灣懂中華民國還是要讓台灣去懂AI我們根本就是應該要好好想想應該是AI來懂我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6846.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6872.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
所以主權的AI目的是追求自主算力與模型我們不過是在追趕產業而已但若是希望整個AI能夠反映我國的法律語言價值文化那就需要一種新的思維跟方向所以請問主委國科會是否願意將文化主權納入到科技政策的核心架構讓AI的發展不是技術的競賽 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6874.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6888.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我想更是強化國家文化主體民主韌性最重要的一個具體的一個實踐你認為呢這一點我們是同意的我們本來在文化層面要建立自由的語料庫這一部分是現在是有積極在進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6890.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6909.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
我想那這樣子的部分上我們是有一定的具體目標那有共同的一個目標我們共同來努力那但是我要跟你談到剛剛說的算力建設還有科研使用的一個落實狀況那國科會的一個報告就有講自114年底AI的算力達到5.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6911.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6933.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
那118年预估要到23并推出了相对应的台湾AI的一个平台协助企业跟研究团队快速导入应用那这显示在整个政府确实在布局AI的基础能量的时候也能够反映出几个值得深思的一个现象 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6933.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
6952.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
我們觀察到AI產業快速發展的一個同時算力資源取得正逐漸有一個落差這不能夠去否認部分大型的法人產業界有能力在自建運算的一個資源但中小創新的公司呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
6953.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
6979.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
他們這些大學的研究團隊呢面臨的就是算力不足啊租用昂貴啊這些問題的困境這不只是一個硬體的問題啊涉及到資料的共享模型的開放以及行政協調的一個速度啊我們有沒有去重視我們有沒有去挖掘到這些問題在推動AI指導的一個過程當中如果算力跟資料都掌握在少數單位你認為會不會造成學研界看得到用不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
6981.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
6987.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
進而限制的創新研究多樣主委您怎麼看待 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
6988.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7014.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
我们的确是有了解这个问题所以我们国防中心的这个算力建制依照我们跟大院提出来的这个预算里面我们逐年编列然后我刚刚也提到说我们也在引导产业界的投资产业投资绝对远大于政府的投资我具体的要求国歌会能不能在布建这个AI算力中有多少的比例能够提供给教育机构创新团队实际使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7015.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7035.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我们大部分的专利都是支持我们的学生会后相关的资料能不能也让我们知道一下好再来就是你这个台湾AI的这个平台针对不同的类型使用者比如说刚刚说的研究单位学研单位法人能够设计不同的方案去做资源降低使用的门槛 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7037.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7065.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
可以嗎可以我想這個都是具體的一個需求尤其在第三國科會是否規劃跟教育部數位發展部目前共同建立AI公共算力的服務體系讓各個各大院校能夠更平等的去取得研發的資源這個是我們所重視的我想未來AI是不可或缺的技術我們希望降低門檻擴大參與共同來努力這是我剛剛所提到困境上希望你們能夠重視的好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7066.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7081.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
謝謝謝謝委員謝謝羅廷薇委員質詢主委請回座我們在我們在郭益勤委員質詢之後呢會休息5分鐘那接下來請范雲委員質詢有請主委請吳主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7094.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7124.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
范委员好主委早安今天要先跟您请教师大女主案我想主委已经非常知道师大女主案我跟一些委员非常的关心就是有发生强迫抽血强迫实验却被轻放的体育研究界跟体育界的乱象我知道国科会已经有一些努力你们在7月29号就决议全面清查而且当时已经开了 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7124.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7153.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
两次的跨部会会议那8月7号我们立法院专报的时候那你们有承诺三件事情第一个是新定研究人员专业伦理守则那这边我肯定你们因为我看了一下已经定了那第二个你们承诺的是要修正国科会学术伦理案件处理及审议要点那这个部分也已经修了那第三个是要强化违反研究伦理的通案处理机制哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7154.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7173.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
那這個部分我就有點不確定那我們先回來看你的研究人員學術倫理守則跟剛剛講的另外一個倫理案件處理審議要點那我看到的事情是好像這樣子的做法比較能夠做到的是事後 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7174.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7199.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
已發生的事件的懲處的確懲處比較嚴格但是我比較關心的事情是如果我們只能夠在事件發生後做處理那會不會還是有憾事發生有沒有可能我們更重要的是要把一部分的心力是放在事前預防呢如果這樣來想的話我就會覺得一個你們沒有給我很清楚報告的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7199.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7225.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
跨部會的協力因為你們之前有開過跨部會的會議那這個是你在9月16號我也肯定國科會有個記者會的報告裡面提到說你們會跨部會協力維護受試者的權益我的理解不知道對不對那個主委可以糾正我如果不對的話跨部會主要是跟衛福部跟教育部那主要是那未來還有運動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7226.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7244.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
還有運發部主要是針對IRB的部分就是要定期查核衛福部跟教育部會叫上國科會是這樣子嗎是那這個部分您覺得目前這個合作機制真的可以有效事前預防嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7249.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7267.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
效果多大这个我当然没有办法完全保证因为特别是在大学国会支持的是大学的学术研究所以很多研究计划我们不希望轮违走回头路说变成是一个还一直不断在监管大学 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7268.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7296.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
这个已经就不是一个自由民主国家的做法所以我们会定定通用的学术伦理我是要一直不断地提醒学者一个自由民主的国家当然不能够假设每个人一开始都会犯罪所以就设很多的限制这个就阻碍学术发展所以我们的做法就是各部位现在我们政府可以努力的就是希望这个机制能够互相互通 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7296.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7317.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
一旦早期有一些蛛絲馬跡我們發現不對勁的時候就可以早期去處理因為這些您報告的東西目前看起來好像沒有在跨部會的會議記錄中呈現我擔心如果衛福部或是教育部或者是未來我們的運動發展這個部分不找你們的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7318.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7345.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那因為畢竟國科會是對研究跟研究倫理最熟的嘛那怎麼辦所以針對您記者會講的這個跨部會如何在事前審查然後逐年我們就是檢核他到底是不是有認真做這些事前審查的工作上就是防破網補破網的話是不是可以給我一個書面報告我們作為就是說國科會在這方面你們有努力的透過跨部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7347.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7374.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
来一起补破网好吗好谢谢委员那这个书面报告多久可以给我我们应该一个月内一个月内好那我们就等你的这个书面报告我希望国科会能够担任起领导的角色因为卫福部教育部跟我们的运动发展部业务都非常的多那研究伦理的部分我担心他们会忽略了好 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7375.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7393.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
學術倫理是國科會要努力那在IRB的部分就是人體相關的現在主政的是衛福部是沒錯 但是就是要跨部會努力你們報告中你們公開記者會也說要跨部會努力那再來我要針對不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7397.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7422.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
针对生养子女的困境还是要借这个还有一些的时间这是我今天的第二个主题不知道主委有没有读到我们中研院很优秀的物理研究所的副研究员林耿慧老师在母亲节分享自己的经验觉得我们国家的科研环境还是有缺乏性别敏感度 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7423.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7449.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
然後提到她自己就是從過去被國科會鼓勵的優秀的女博士生到生育前其實研究表現都非常的好可是她後來2012年生了一胎2015年生了雙胞胎之後她在被審查的時候審查委員顯然缺乏性別敏感度質疑她的生產力下降後來就沒有得到研究計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7450.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7468.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
她用研究的方式認為國科會應該要去研究生一胎生二胎是不是影響了女性科研人才的出版可是在研究審查方面你們目前制度做得還不夠然後她有提到就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7469.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7496.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
其實科研人才裡面有三分之一是女性可是成為國科會的計畫主持人就降到四分之一那這部分不知道那個主委有沒有看過這篇文章或者是聽過因為這非常多人分享這樣子一個嚴謹的學術文章非常的長還這麼多人分享並不容易表示他說出了部分人的心聲主委有知道這篇文章嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7497.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7518.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
報告人 我沒有讀過好 那沒關係主委之後可以去看一下好不好因為它這裡面又用研究舉證的方式覺得國科會應該要去研究研究人員特別是女性生一胎 生兩胎 生三胎是不是對她的生產量有影響那如何不要流失這些人才而是 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7518.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7533.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
支持她不是在審查的過程中因為她一小段時間的表現就拿不到計畫最後就惡性循環反而是國家培養女性優秀人才的一個損失謝謝委員的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7534.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7559.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我知道你們其實有做一個補救就是說就這個科技領域的部分如果生一胎的話它的績效認定可以從一般的五年增加兩年你們今天的報告中也有生兩胎的話就5加2加2但是這位研究人員提出來說人文領域不知道是不是因為女性研究員比較多它的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7560.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7580.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
看的时间就可以是10年那你这边还5加2那像对方这位发文的人他第二胎是双胞胎对不对所以看起来你整个友善性别友善措施还是蛮不够的你目前其实是有一个怀孕及育儿随到随省 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7581.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7606.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
然后到怀孕到子女满三岁之前就可以那另外研讨会你有补助托育经费让就是需要带小孩的不分男女就是家长都可以友善小孩还有一个鼓励女性的STIRN的这个计划那但是呢你们国科会自己有委托人做生育支持措施成效分析报告这是2022年的耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7607.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7633.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
今年是2025年嘛 主委这个分析报告您有没有看过抱歉没有不过我同意委员的观点我想在我们现在因为少子女的状况我们希望能够挽回这个颓势我们的确要多照顾一下友善生育而且这个如果因为它 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7633.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7660.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
我最近才看了局里夫人的传记电影这科学界就是充满了性别歧视她是特别特别优秀而且有一个非常支持她的先生跟家庭才能够就是说不断地突出所以我觉得不要让我们优秀的女性科研人才觉得被制度歧视没有得到鼓励跟支持那这也是流失国家的优秀人才 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7660.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7684.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
那既然你們都委託人做這個生育支持措施成效分析報告做了都三年了主委還沒有機會看到那是把裡面的政策建議拿出來認真評估好不好一個是說支持生育措施的申請年齡不要只有到2到3歲應該放寬到5到6歲另外是不是能夠鼓勵生育期間的女性她就執行多年期計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7684.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7704.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
她如果本來很優秀不會因為生育她就不優秀只是那段時間可能會有一些些生養家庭跟職涯的平衡但是以我們優秀的居里夫人我記得她生了兩個小孩她還是依然優秀好不好是不是這個可以多久之內給我一個報告呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7705.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7722.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
好 我們一樣在一個月內一個月內好 把你們自己請人做分析的生育支持措施裡面的政策建議至少這兩點好好評估一下是不是能夠推出 好不好還有這個雙胞胎的議題那你也一起研究好 謝謝委員 謝謝謝謝范雲委員質詢主委請回座接下來請郭育琴委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7737.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7739.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
謝主席有請主委請問主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7744.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7767.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
郭委員好主委辛苦了這個前天我去參加了這個台北車站就是我們的這個車站的時候就是我們的科普列車那這個是十週年我想這個十年來這個要先給我們的國科會一個掌聲一下那我想這個喜歡參加或願意參加甚至也有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7768.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7786.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
過去曾經參與過這個科普列車的孩子現在七年之後他要成為關主而且這個關主非常的特別他是廳長的這個學生但是他這一次成為了助教成為了關主那我想這個影響這個是非常非常大而且這一次我們的這個環島的列車也會到一些偏鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7790.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7819.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
那我想這已經不是只有一般的所謂的這個科學教育的普及那也是我們教育平權非常重要的一個起點那這個禮拜預計應該會有兩萬名的學生會參加對不對是因為我有看那個影片我看這個主委笑得非常非常的開心講到這些孩子講到這些科學那我想這個未來因為這十年剛開始走到現在真的不容易那我想未來我們也繼續往這條路走 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7820.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7835.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
甚至有人说是不是可以一年可以开两班的列车有这样子的一个需求我们也来研究看看看这个频率怎么增加好吗谢谢委员好但是主委我想这个刚刚提到这个孩子的科学教育很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7835.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7863.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
但是接著下來人才的留任也很重要那除了人才的留任前一陣子我們看到有一個這個新聞的標題那我想在這裡剛剛葉元之委員沒有讓主委好好的說明清楚我們來看一下這個高教貧窮國科會的這個經費動漲那教授用微波爐來取代這個百萬的設備那根據這樣子的一個聳動的一個標題但是我想我還是要聽一下這個主委您怎麼說 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7864.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7890.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
那我想如果研究要靠所謂的窮撐才能夠生存下去的話那我想未來我們台灣的科研我怕只剩下奇蹟沒有希望那這點我是不是請我們的主委先來回應一下這個用微波爐來取代百萬的設備這是屬實嗎那到底有什麼樣的一些事情或者是哪些爭議我們是可以在這裡來解釋的 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7892.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7919.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
当然微波炉也可以是一个实验设备就看看学者他怎么去应用它如果你能够用一个比较低成本简单的设备可以做出伟大的研究那这样的学者更厉害当然我们回过头来谈这个经费的问题我跟委员报告其实国科会在我们自己可以编列的这个有限的预算之下我们还是逐年在提升我们所有的这个计划的 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7920.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7940.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
平均的研究經費是逐年在提升到今年都還是一樣我們當然希望未來幾年都還可以繼續提升並且我們核電的計畫的案件比例也是增加的也不是減少的所以整體來講我們並沒有像媒體這種標題所講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7943.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7969.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
这样耸动的政府在支持我们的科技的研发预算一直在增加虽然我是期待能够再增加更多但是因为行政院的总预算受到一些限制所以没有办法像我们预期的在台湾经济实力还很强的时候能够再加强我们的实力让我们科研的力量能够增加我是很期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7971.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
7984.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
至少我們名人的預算也希望我們立法院可以支持所以我想這個結構性的動漲的這些預算我們還是有逐年在增加當中那我們也希望能夠再往更好的一個方向走 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
7985.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8010.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我刚刚有提到就是在人才的培育的部分那我想在这个助理研究员或者研究生他们的薪资现在普遍还是落在所谓的30K到40K之间那我想这个部分是我想青年学者他们所承载的必须要撰写计划那同时呢也有这个所谓的留任的压力那我想呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8010.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8036.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
這些人才如果我們在這個部分的相關的資源不足那我們也很擔心這些人才要嘛就是往國外發展要嘛就是往業界靠攏那我覺得這個會是將來我們人才的部分的一些流用的一些問題是結構上的一些問題針對這些問題我們應該要怎麼樣來讓這些科研的工作者他們能夠在一個比較穩定的一個環境當中能夠來發揮他們的長才 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8039.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8055.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
那我想這個薪資的誘因的確也是非常非常重要的很多人在講說錢不重要靠熱情就夠了不對這薪資其實是支撐他們的生活最重要的一環那這個部分我們有沒有什麼樣的一個計畫來解決呢報告委員我非常同意委員的講法 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8056.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8079.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
因为学界跟业界的薪资的差异其实有在扩大我们非常的忧心因为这个样子学界找不到好的人才我们的新晋的教师现在在聘用上面也碰到非常多的困难所以我跟教育部的政部长其实有讨论这个事情我们也在想说在现在我们整个法律的限制之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8080.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8108.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
还包含在考试院的这个问题没有办法在体制内去改变这个现状我们是希望说能够在政策行政命令上面能够有机会我们鼓励产业界能够发挥他们的影响力也能够跟政府一起来合作有没有一些比较具体的计划具体就是我们正在研拟合并的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8109.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8125.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
合併的制度讓優秀的人才在產業界也可以指導或者是在教學方面能夠協助我們學術界我們學術界的教授他有這個能力能夠在學校也指導研究可以當教師 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8126.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8152.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
同時也在產業界也可以發揮他的實力協助產業界研發目前都還在研擬當中都還沒有一個具體的規劃我們在研擬當中希望能夠順利的去推動這樣的大概有沒有一個比較實際的一些進程讓我們可以期待或者是讓我們可以看得到我們希望在這個學年度在這個學年度能夠把這個制度看看能不能把它落實下來下個學年度可以說 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8153.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8170.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
所以這個懸嶺路如果可以落實下來或有一些比較具體的一些計畫再提供給我們辦公室來作為參考好不好那我們當然也樂見就是我們要來找解方讓這些所謂的科研人才能夠真的長留久用接下來我想這個國家災害房 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8170.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8191.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
防救科技中心在國科會跟這個政災基金會的一個努力合作之下那我們對於這個2016年不管是這個台南的地震或2018年花蓮的一個地震我們進行了這個災害任性的一個研究那當然也登上了這個成果也登上了這個國際的一個地震權威的一個期刊那另外呢就是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8192.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8211.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
我想聯合國他們也特別在研究報告當中也指出平時如果我們能夠建立完善的一個風險的評估那另外還有資源的一個整合以及制度化的一個備援的一個機制其實都是關鍵在社會如何在災難之後可以快速的一個重建 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8212.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8222.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我想國科會最近我們近年來也在推動災害防救韌性科技的一個方案三年來我們也投入了28億整合了9個部會同時也有18個機關跟118項的一個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8228.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8250.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
已經有產出166項研究報告的成果其中有76項是可以來做實際的應用我想這個部分也象徵我們在災害任性的一個計畫其實我們是真正的有在做執行但是這邊我想要再請教一下我們的主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8250.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8276.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
雖然我們已經很積極的在投入這個所謂的防災的一個科研但是我們要怎麼樣來確保這些成熟的科研的結果它能夠轉換變成具體的一個防災的一個政策的一個工具那不管是結合地方也好或者是學校教育的一個防災教育的部分我們怎麼樣來落實那這個部分呢是不是在各個所謂的這個災防的資料的運用 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8276.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8296.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
也是可以互通有無那怎麼樣來做這個整合的一個有沒有預計要推動這個所謂的跨域的資料整合標準化這個部分有沒有一些比較具體的一些計畫跟報告謝謝委員這個整合的確是非常重要這是為什麼行政院有一個在我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8298.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8314.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
任何災害要侵襲比如說颱風之前我們會成立這個中央災害應變中心背後支撐這個災害應變中心在做決策的時候它的重要的一個機構就是我們的災防中心國科院下面那個國家災防中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8315.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8340.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這個災害中心其實是整合我們現在各部位在做資料收集的部分包含中央氣象署在做氣候資料的監測然後整合到我們災害中心包含地震的資料包含土石邊坡的監測等等各種各樣的資料匯集到我們的災害中心我們會做資料的分析然後做一些估計 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8341.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8362.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
然後提供最後的這個資訊甚至情報給我們各部會作為這個施政決策的參考那在各個地方的政府跟學校剛剛我提到這學校的防災的一個教育有沒有已經導入這些所謂的科研的結果那地方他們有沒有辦法有管道可以回饋他們的問題來優化我們的科研的一個防災的結果這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8363.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8385.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
委員關心的這個是非常的好其實我們跟各地各地方政府還有教育機構也緊密在合作所以我們災防中心其實在各個縣市也都有相關的學者也會協助協助我們把相關的這個防災防災的一些知識灌輸到我們的地方的這個教育上面所以現在已經是落地有災實施的對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8386.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8407.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
我想這個很重要因為其實我想這個天災不斷不管是豪雨也好或者是我們碰到的所謂的颱風、地震等等台灣處於一些比較特殊的一個環境我想讓這些科研的結果不要只是報告而已而是要真正的成為所謂的救命的一個工具這也是我們這個國科會 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8409.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8421.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
也是非常重要的一個使命跟工作在進行今天因為時間的關係其實我後面還有兩題我真的來不及問沒關係我們還有很多的機會可以再互相的交流也謝謝我們的主委謝謝主席謝謝謝謝各位請回座我們現在休息五分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8733.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8751.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
現在開會我們接下來請林一錦委員質詢謝謝主席有請那個吳主委跟太空中心吳主任請吳主委及吳主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8754.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8774.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
林委員好雙無主委好首先我們恭喜太空中心福衛八號第一顆衛星人質完成特別是在這個月八號要起運準備送到美國去發射升空我想這是很多現在已經在美國了 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8775.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8801.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
已經在美國 對 8號起運嘛對 準備升空我想說這是很多人的心血跟投入在此先恭喜我們國科會跟太陽中心完成這項兼具的任務接下來我就要請教是說在福衛8號首科衛星的研製過程其實它是跟我們國內有33個產官學研的單位合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8801.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8816.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
那國科會的新聞稿有指出說如果衛星順利運行那合作的夥伴就可以藉這個驗證的技術來這個衛星的原件跟軟體就可以取得飛行履歷那這樣的話就可以爭取國際訂單 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8818.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8824.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
那我的理解是說這是不是會帶動很多的單位或廠商進軍國際遙測衛星的籌載原件這個市場那會有效提高我國整體的太空產業產值 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8835.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8849.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
請教主委我這樣的理解正確嗎的確委員講得很對這也是戴總統講的我們要禁足太空一個很重要的我們要帶動台灣的產業發展將來變成是全世界在太空科技裡面很重要的一個供應鏈是 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8851.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8877.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
主委就把我下一個問題已經回答了其實我就是要問你說那我們再來要怎麼樣促進就是協助我國業者去爭取所謂的國際訂單是就是因為台灣現在因為太空中心的努力我們帶進產業界來教他們怎麼樣去做衛星並且衛星裡面的很多的籌載包含未來通信衛星用的通信的籌載 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8878.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8894.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
现在台湾我们慢慢都自主在发展发展以后我们台湾中心现在还跟台湾的电子五哥的厂商也签约了将来把智慧制造引进来跟台风结合将来我们的产业发展以后就可以变成全世界不管是美国 欧洲 日本等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8895.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8921.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
做这个低轨通信卫星将来要来跟台湾合作可以做这个量产还有这个地面站的设备还有这个使用者的终端设备将来都可以连结在一起台湾将来都有能力去帮全世界来做这个太空产业的一个很重要的制造所以这是我们禁足太空赖总统讲的禁足太空的政府的政策好 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8922.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8947.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
另外一個太空的議題是說國科會有預計要在台南的沙崙建設一個火箭整合測試研發基地進行火箭原件跟次系統的開發製造 測試跟組裝目前進度看起來好像有提工艦計畫在行政院要核定預計今年度要取得用地我們預計明後年 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8949.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8974.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
就要進行工程設計跟發包施工那想要請教一下合訂這個工建計畫行政院合訂了嗎這是第一個問題第二個問題是那未來預計會怎麼樣在那邊推動太空的這個產業那以後如何結合周遭的這個鏈結周遭的這個生活應該生態圈 鏈結周遭的生態圈來進行這個發展這兩個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8977.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9005.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
謝謝委員 委員是很內行我們這個沙崙的火箭整合測試研發基地的工建計畫行政院剛剛核定了剛剛 OK已經核定所以我們現在接下來就可以開始做明年的預算已經編了希望能夠開始去做這個設計希望在未來的四年內能夠看到它可以建成然後我們開始進行這個研發 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9007.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9028.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
这一部分因为它紧邻着我们未来的沙伦生态科学园区所以将来我们除了在半导体的发展之外也会希望能够逐步的建立刚刚跟委员报告的我们太空产业的整个产业链能够在南部也可以扮演这样的角色好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9030.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9045.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
那接著我想要關心的是主任 剛剛那個問議題你有沒有補充的沒有他是最主要的貢獻者太空阿伯那我們接下來要關心的就是國科會我們有一個無人機關鍵技術前瞻研發計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9048.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9068.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
那這個計畫是2024年我們開始進行這個計畫徵求看起來是審查後有補助個13個案子那目前也培育了149個人這個關鍵技術人才那我們看到上週五行政院院會有報告說行政院要透過經濟部來推行無人機產發統籌計畫那預計從今年起 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9073.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9097.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
到2030年陸續要投入442億的經費要拼2030年的產值達到400億元所以我們就展現說我們想要成為無人機國家隊的雄心壯志看得出來也成為無人機民主供應鏈亞洲中心的決心 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9098.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9122.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那無人機我想是各種領域的關鍵技術它不只在國防海巡還有應用在各種的像說在防科技或者生活民生領域所以我請教主委是國科會這個計畫它目前計畫跟如何怎麼樣跟經濟部我想得到工科院或者是中科院或者是交通部來合作這個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9124.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9144.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
好,那個委員剛剛提到的有兩個,一個就是國會的,我們工程處,洪書長在這邊,我們是鼓勵我們的學界,學界要做研發未來比較先進的這種無人機的設計啦,還有系統的整合,軟硬體整合,等等的機隊的管理。 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9145.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9168.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
這些東西學界一定要下去做研究培養人才未來產業需要的人才剛剛提到第二個就是經濟部現在的計畫也是編在我們的科技預算裡面這個計畫的重點就是產業就要發展產品了這個產品有包含對我們國安需求的也包含民用的商用的等等這些東西都會在 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9169.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9186.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
我們整個產業發展的藍圖裡面這一部分國客會努力的來結合各部會因為不是只有科技發展產品製作而已在應用端我們各部會編的這個預算要讓應用端可以使用包含海委會的使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9187.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9204.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
農業部的使用 交通部的使用甚至經濟部很多的產業發展交通部在做公共工程的建設等等所有這些東西都會用到無人機我們在摘房也會需要救災也會需要所以委員剛剛講的都是正確的我們正在努力朝這個方向再進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9206.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9229.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
我還要請教是說我看到前一陣子國科會有公開增建一個叫做台灣運動文化研究專案計畫我們談到運動研究我們都幫會想到說我們如何跟提升運動選手效能的這個運科研究那可是本席覺得你提到這個運動文化這個探討非常有趣舉例來說譬如說你增建計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9230.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9242.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
中有提到說運動文化與歷史還有運動媒體與消費文化創新與社會影響或者是說地緣政治與台灣國際體育這個運動參與這些這些這個政見的這個計畫的這個名稱你會發現說運動不只是運動他跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9250.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9270.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這個社會學研究跟這個傳播學研究跟真學研究都有關係所以想簡單請教主委是說之後這個偵見的內容你會怎麼樣跟運動部因為大部分都是運動嘛跟運動部來合作或怎麼樣去展示這些應用的研究或者是你期待看到怎麼樣的偵見內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9273.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9301.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
行政院卓院长也请我来协助运动部因为运动部成立以后它就不是只有像过去在照顾顶尖的运动员而已对 全民运动我们是希望能够推展全民运动还有运动的产业既然要推展全民运动我们就希望说未来的发展是要运动变成是我们文化里面一个很重要的元素因为是全民的需求了全民需求要塑造这种全民的运动 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9303.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9323.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
當中就很多的我們人文社會領域的學者就要進來協助協助怎麼樣去讓我們的政策更完善讓未來的這個發展會讓我們的民眾都能夠接受所以這一點跟剛剛委員講的目標是一樣的那國會現在努力在做這個事情我請我們那個黃處長補充一下好好來 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9327.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9342.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
跟委員報告這件事情就是說我們希望讓運動能夠深入到每個人的生活裡頭去所以這裡面的主題大概會會有一個很重要的精神就是說將未來我們的民眾他們也能夠在自己的生活裡頭就去談論 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9344.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9366.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
它不僅僅只是去討論說今天有哪一個很好的運動員有非常好的一個成果就是說我也能夠談談我今天做了什麼運動我跟別人做了什麼樣的互動那這樣子就代表我們的運動真的深入到我們的文化裡頭去也就是每個人的所以等於是這個的專案計畫某個程度它就是要推展全民運動做準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9367.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9395.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
是 對我們全民的身心健康會是一個很重要的幫助也是賴總統健康台灣的願景一個很重要的施政的項目好 最後再小小的請求一下就是我們看到國科會為了讓人文社會科學研究提供更多的人文關懷跟藝術價值跟社會大眾來交流分享所以我們今天辦了有98個場次從2017年開始有人文沙龍的系列活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9396.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9423.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
那跟我們台南相關的主題就是蘇碩斌老師有主講一個台南第四個一百年這個國立台灣文學館何以立在府城中心的這樣一個這個講座那我比較關心的是說因為最近平普原住民身份法有通過那其中在22條就有提到說各級教育主管機關應推動相關的教育政策促進全體國民認識並尊重平普原住民族 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9424.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9442.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那所以想要請到主委像這種人文沙龍的系列裡面可不可以規劃辦理平埔原住民相關的人文沙龍來促進我們全體國民對平埔原住民不管是文化歷史轉型正義的相關認識謝謝委員的建議我想這個建議很好我想請我們黃處長來努力來實現好 謝謝主委謝謝主席謝謝委員謝謝李一金委員質詢 主委請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9453.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9474.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
接下來請張雅玲委員質詢謝謝主席 我們邀請國科會主委請吳主委張委員好主委好喔好 等我一下午的簡報出來了喔 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9478.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9492.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
我想針對於台南沙崙科學園區民團現在有一些疑慮我不曉得這邊主委清不清楚我簡單陳述一下他們的一些想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9493.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9513.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
就是說從這個生態保育團體像是中華民國的野鳥學會它就有提到說這個沙崙農場這邊其實是被農業部列為草生地的保育軸帶是我們台灣特有種原生種的這個草消和環境質的一個重要棲地但團體就會質疑說將名為生態的園區 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9515.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9526.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
選址在公認的生態敏感區會不會讓草蕭失去他的家破壞他的密室或是繁殖的一個地方同時13個環保團體也聯合聲明說沙崙健康園區生態園區的開發案將會使農場面積消失四分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9535.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9563.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
呼籲新的開發僅限於既有的高鐵特區並且將沙崙農場納入為農業發展區的第一類維持它的耕地的利用同時辦理生態補償像是推動草銷友善農業第三個也有一些農民擔心說因為他是用年約來承諸這個地方來有這個收入一旦化為園區將會失去耕地生計的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9563.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9578.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
那最後呢也有一些團體他們擔心說開發會帶來工業污染影響灌溉水源與地下水品質所以我知道說在2025年的9月呢這個其實已經送到國發會審議通過了現在也要送到行政院來核定然後也會開始進入相關的環評 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9582.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9599.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
但是我想大家現在最大的爭議其實是一個地方的信任感的問題他們擔心的就是說這個是生態園區還是破壞生態的園區所以我想是不是可以請那個主委簡單的說明就是說現在的一個相關進度到底是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9601.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9617.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
好 謝謝委員關心這個事那我們也了解到我們國內很多的生態保育的團體也非常關心這個事情我們自從公告沙崙生態科學園區的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9618.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9636.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
以後其實我們也接收到很多的團體的關心不過事實上我們從去年開始就已經做了很多的研究我們也邀請學術界相關領域的專長教授也來進行各種各樣的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9638.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9654.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
那很多的在地的這個生態保育的團體也都有跟我們也接觸過過程當中他們給了我們很多的建議也非常感謝他們那這些建議有不錯的建議我們都已經在執行當中包含去嘗試說在營造更多的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9657.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9675.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
可能的棲地跟密實地那密實地我們將來也是要邀請我們的農民來做這個有機的耕種這個事情甚至政府都可以補助這些農民那除了這個沙崙這個區域之外因為我們的這個非常寶貴的草銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9676.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9703.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
它其實是也不會只有在這個區域活動這個草蕭的分布從雲嘉南一直到屏東其實都非常多的地方我們都發現到他們的這個棲地跟密實地所以對政府來講不能夠只看一個科學園區的發展而是整體的這個生態的這個保育怎麼樣讓我們的這個經濟的發展跟這個生態可以並存這個事情是行政院跨部會我們一起努力在做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9703.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9718.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
那我想要特別提醒一件事情就是說我們現在呢其實是政府有說要生態先行來推動園區承諾會保留三分之一的空間來作為植被自拿自紅空間也會做棲地補償 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9719.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9733.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
但是主委我想要提醒這個說法我覺得民間可能好像不一定會接受因為我們提出來的這個二人溪的區域其實它原本就已經是草消的棲地所以等於是拿原本的棲地來補償那這到底算補償嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9735.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9758.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我們的做法其實是,我們做法是說,原來如果說它是棲地的話,它棲地到處都是啦,有非常多地方,但是你沒有好好的去營造去管理的話,它不見得會聚集在這個地方。我們要把環境弄得很好,我們要去管理,管理不要有野狗啦,不要有很多人為的干擾等等。 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9759.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9774.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
這些東西如果沒有經濟的支撐沒有政府進來因為我們開發園區我們發展得很好政府有預算可以來協助這個生態的保育的話讓它自生自滅它其實是會越來越少的 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9775.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9804.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
好我想這個說法我想可能大家還是會有一點疑慮但是我想我的想法就是這樣子我們就是跟團體好好的溝通看要怎麼來去處置這個問題特別是因為大家有提到就是說在歐美的一些生態補償的制度是說我們要利用富裕改善或創造棲地的方式來去做彌補來維持整體的生態環境品質不會去失衡那特別是歐盟的2014年的研究是說少一塊棲地至少要有一百塊去補足那要怎麼達到我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9805.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9831.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
這個就是讓你們來跟團體持續的討論謝謝委員重視當地的一個聲音這樣子接下來我想要講一個AI的新十大建設的一個推動計畫目前我們已經從204我們預估在204年會創造新台幣約15兆的經濟價值涵蓋智慧應用關鍵技術數位基礎的三大面向不僅是產業政策更是國家科技戰略的核心佈局 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9833.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9856.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
主委您也有提到說智慧機器人、量子科技、矽光子、主權AI等四項新科技將會由國科會來負責並且鼓勵大家來投入資料中心跟應用服務來打造AI之道不過我想大家都是聽到口號比較多實際的計畫到底是什麼主委可不可以簡單幫我們說明一下一些比較具體的計畫、方案還有進度、時程的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9857.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9880.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
我們在AI機器人的方案裡面行政院已經通過也公告了執行面包含國科會會在沙倫地區成立一個國家機器人研究中心之外我們經濟部也在公園院的南分院就是台南的六甲院區 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9881.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9910.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
也會成立一個新的跟產業界合作的共創的研發中心然後我們也在台南的這個柳營科工區也會希望台南市政府配合能夠擴建這個柳營科工區我想問一下聽起來好像你們都已經有一些詳細的計劃具體的計劃因為時間寶貴啦我想是不是可以把計劃跟時程提供到我們辦公室可不可以那這大概什麼時候可以提供到我們辦公室呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9911.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9923.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
这个应该应该马上就因为听起来是很我们两个礼拜内就送过去这还要两个礼拜不是听起来已经很具体了吗应该一个礼拜就可以了吧他们还要整理整理一下好了两个礼拜了好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9925.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9945.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我想要針對 因為剛剛一直在講AI這件事情可是立法院的預算中心也有提到一個報告是說國科會自107年推動的AI行動計畫已經編列了252億的經費可是AI的應用是並不顯著的我們台灣的AI成熟度甚至是全球倒數第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9946.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
9958.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
主委您也有說過我們過去是強調在硬體的投資可是我們對於軟體的部分還有雲端的服務都是相對缺乏的所以你們在預算的部分其實是有做一些規劃的對不對好 那我想要請 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
9959.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
9984.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
主委我們就針對應用的部分來做一些詳細的討論第一個這個是Oxford Insights的一個報告他就有去強調說我們台灣在該指數的得分是74.58其實算是中上特別是我們是在政府政策治理以及資料基礎設施上面相對其他國家我們很強可是一樣回到我們在技術的產業上面是相對的弱得分只有56.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
9987.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10009.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
另外一個根據CISCO的台灣AI Readiness Index的一個報告也提到說我們不到三分之一的公司認為自己在AI的資料準備度上面是高的所以我想這都代表就是回應到剛剛講的我們在企業的導入跟應用上面是非常需要來協助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10010.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10028.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那特別是我也可以看到說日本其實在最近的Stanford的一個全球AI活躍度的排名他們從第四名掉到了第九名特別是在深層式AI出來之後他們在企業的導入跟實用化速度比較慢所以我就想要請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10029.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10042.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
雖然說Stanford他並沒有評比台灣但我想太多的數據都已經告訴我們了我們必須強化AI的應用那台灣中小企業這麼多我們政府打算怎麼做我們在2029年有沒有對企業訂定明確的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10044.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10063.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
謝謝委員 我們的確過去比較屬於第一個階段的發展我們注重在台灣的半導體的實力我們又時間有限了我們就直接回到中小企業實質我們的方向跟目標是什麼對 但是如果我們沒有做那件事我們今天其實也只能仰賴外來的企業來提供服務我沒有意見 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10065.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10080.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
現在我們的預算的編列在AI新十大建設裡面委員可以看到說我們有談到說我們要發展全民智慧生活圈這個事情全民智慧生活圈意思就是要談應用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10081.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10095.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
那应用一定是百光百业不是只有制造业还有这个服务业制造业本身也需要那我想问一下我们有没有一个明确的目标在2029年有多少的企业要达到我们可以真的把AI应用在他们的日常工作上我们有这个明确的目标吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10096.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10123.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
我們這個目標從數字上來看現在是很難預估但是現在我們明年的預算編列我們已經把這個我想主委抱歉我打斷一下因為我想我們還是要一個非常的明確目標你才知道你的投資你的方向到底是不是正確的所以我想這個部分的話因為時間已經差不多了是不是可以把你們現在的一個相關的計畫一個規劃可以提供給我那這大概是多久可以提供給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10124.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10150.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
应该一样我们这两个礼拜一起提供好不好那这个到时候我们可能也就在会后约个时间来详细讨论那最后我再借用一点点时间我还是很想要感谢主委在今年非常支持在Kids Science里面有台语的这个科普的活动在里面那其实有一些母语家庭都有跟我说他们非常感谢所以我也希望把他们的感谢之意呢可以转达给主委那他们也希望这不是只有一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10151.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10180.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
未來還可以持續喔是可以嗎沒問題好謝謝惠妍抱歉好那最後再一點時間就是我這次因為去看KISS INS的時候我看到那個量子科學的這個展這個薛定格的展連我這個外行人看了都覺得非常薛定格的貓抱歉連我這個外行人看了都覺得非常非常有趣那我就在想一件事情因為量子技術當天大家一直在洗腦我嘛量子技術其實是一個下一代的運算基礎對於我們的AI發展非常非常的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10180.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10207.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
所以這麼重要的東西我們是不是可以讓更多的孩子了解這件事情呢那我們去年呢其實是國科會有補助一個實習生筆記本那獲得了金鐘自然科學計時節目的一個獎項我們可不可以更積極主動的把像這樣子的東西呢提出跟文化部跟教育部合作可能有一些科普創作的扶植計畫讓這樣子的東西並不是只是一個展可以透過日常的節目讓孩子都可以去理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10208.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10233.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
好 我們客戶處其實有持續編列預算我們希望他加強這一部分謝謝委員的建議好 謝謝好 謝謝張雅玲委員主委請回座接下來請陳秀寶委員謝主席 請主委好 又請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10238.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10255.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
陳召惠好主委好主委這邊請教您喔在財化法之後呢通過之後大幅的影響我們中央及地方的預算的這個分配的比例那衝擊到我們中央的這個政策的推動國會這邊也難以幸免的會受到影響喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10256.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10272.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
主委我想請教您原先我們預期明年度的科技預算是會編列到1800億現在大概只能規劃到1600億少了這200億主委您覺得說會不會限制到我們台灣科技的發展對我們科研的這些量能會不會限制到 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10273.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10293.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
我當然覺得會限制啦就是我們希望在政府經濟的發展良好的這樣的時期我們能夠多投入讓台灣的這個實力可以快速再提升主委您在受訪的時候也表示說因為地方政府的這個收入是增加的 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10294.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10309.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
希望未來呢地方可以配合中央的施政規劃我們一起來創造更大的內需市場那我想請教說國科會目前有預計哪些科技政策是需要地方政府一起來努力有沒有去協調地方跟中央是如何來合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10310.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10325.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
我刚刚那个张委员在问我AI新时代建设我有提到说我们要发展全民智慧生活圈这个全民智慧生活圈将来推动的机制就是要发展智慧城市把全民透过这个智慧城市AI的应用能够 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10326.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10353.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
AI的雲端應用能夠連結在一起這個一定需要地方政府跟中央政府來配合地方政府跟中央政府來配合能夠在需求端就是全民全民一定都有地方政府然後他們的需求還有地方的服務業 白宮白業像旅宿餐飲業 醫療健康照護業等等這個都是在地方地方政府在協助的時候我們也希望能夠補助他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10353.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10369.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
補助他們來應用我們科技產業所發展出來的這些AI的產品跟應用服務這樣搭配起來才有辦法讓我們社會發展好 謝謝主委其實我們推動科技的政策不只在研究那也要時間 重要的是時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10370.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10385.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
中央地方我們要一起努力也希望說能夠達到主委您說的我們是形成一個正向循環但是我會希望說我們需要地方政府一起努力的或者說我們可以給他的這些建議能夠更具體我們來擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10386.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10412.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
就是说我们有这样子的一个研究我们有怎样的资源可以来相结合提供给这些县市政府做参考来结合我们现在有的技术我们现在有的研究的结果那是提供给我们的民众是一个在产学方面是研究出来的一个可以实践的这个有没有更具体一点的计划可以来提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10413.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10433.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
我們如果是產學合作我們倒沒有特別限制因為學者要跟產業界合作他們要提計劃這個要等到我們預算通過以後因為預算都是中央部會編列的預算通過以後我們會去邀請 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10435.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10458.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
學術界跟產業界一起來合作來提這些案子所以我們不會限制那個題目好的 謝謝主委好 那藤堅剛剛講才化法這個問題我們在115年的這個預算呢針對基礎科研的預算會不會再做增加我們會增加多少的幅度有沒有符合我們國科會想要強力扶植那個科研這個力道我們經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10464.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10470.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
反部增加就是說明年的預算我們有微幅的增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10472.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10496.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
當然可能沒有到說很讓學界滿意至少我沒有讓學界很滿意但是主委你自己滿意嗎自己覺得這樣子的我本來當然是期待說可以更多一點能夠編到一千八近期對於媒體對國歌會計畫是有報導幾個問題剛才前面有質詢的委員也都有提到不知道主委你自己有沒有看過這樣的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10497.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10525.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
內容其實針對是國科會計劃的這些審核經費的運用以及研究經費動漲他其實都有著墨那其中還提到說我們的學者是一塊錢當十塊錢在用難怪國外的學者會稱我國的學術成果是台灣奇蹟那報導裡面有提到說國科會主委之前曾經公開直言我們台灣學術界幾十年來都沒有本土的諾貝爾科學獎得主是很羞恥的 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10526.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10546.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
但國科會這邊是不是有在思考其實我們國家提供給大學研究者這個研究經費跟其他國家來相比實在是沒有辦法跟人家比那國科會這邊也不能覺得說責任是在學者自己國會這邊你們也有責任為學者為研究者來爭取那這邊有幾個問題想請教主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10548.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10567.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
就針對國科會計畫會變成是學者在校的這個業績有申請到計畫或者說是金額甚至是會跟升等續片來這個聯動那如果沒有申請到計畫等於計畫就停擺了他的研究生涯可能就結束了這個主委您有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10569.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10589.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
我們在計劃申請核定通過率其實在全世界來講我們其實算是高的也就是說我們在支持學界的研究我們盡量能夠讓願意做研究的學者都能夠得到國會的補助這一點我們是一直在努力當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10591.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10612.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
當然這個計畫能不能通過還要經過同儕的審查也就是學界專家彼此要去互相審查如果他的計畫沒有得到學者他們同領域學者之間的認同我們也不會浪費納稅人的錢一定要去資助他所以還是有個機制存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10613.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10635.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
針對學者有指出國科會核定的計劃經費沒有調漲所以學者留不住優秀的研究助理那國科會這邊你們對於這樣子的沒有合理的薪資沒有合理的待遇留不住優秀的研究助理我們可以有怎樣的方式來協助解決我跟委員報告我們其實計劃經費都有增加 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10636.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10665.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
但是計劃經費我們核定到學校去以後學校如果自己的內規沒有改他們自己沒有改的話一直維持一個老的薪資的級距那也沒有辦法是學校自己要去修改他們的內規這不是國科委沒有在嚴格的限制經費核定到學校去以後學校是有個彈性可以核定研究助理的津貼的 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10666.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10682.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
好那這邊呢其實剛才我有聽到朱問您在回答的說你們會去研議一個和平的制度是是不是有這樣子的方式來解決部分因為待遇不佳沒有辦法讓人才留住這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10684.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10701.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
另外政政學者認為說目前國科會的經費會偏重在政治導向就會只注重在國家要發展的項目他們也希望說我們能夠做到預算是透明化這個項目透明化應該要有個監督的機制主委您的想法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10702.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10721.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我們所有的國會所有的核定計畫全部都是公開的所有的民眾學者都可以看到國會所核定的所有的計畫所以這是全民在監督當然在預算上在項目上是公開的是不是會有一些在他們申請的時候有沒有會偏重偏重到哪個領域呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10724.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10751.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
並不會我們在這個在這個基礎的研究部分是所有的學者可以以他自己的這個興趣他研究的這個項目我們沒有任何的限制但是呢我們有政府的一些科技政策那是專案的項目專案項目是額外加進來的我們在那個基礎研究的部分自由的那種研究是完全沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10752.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10775.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
没有限制的那这一部分的经费我们是逐年在增加并没有减少是逐年在增加的谢谢主委这边的说明那我还是要再问同样的问题我们刚刚提到说受财化法的影响那目前我们基础科研人经费你们会维持不调整还是会再做调整会再增加吗我们是希望增加啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10776.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10801.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
因為說真的我們中央的預算變少同樣的我們國會這邊的預算也會比預期的少是但你們希望增加是有機會再調整的會再如果有機會調整當然我們當然希望增加因為譬如說現在我們要發射衛星那緊鑼密鼓我們也把產業界帶進來了如果能夠有更多的資源我們當然速度可以加快對 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10802.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10830.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
這樣才可以掌握那這個還是需要主委需要國科會再努力啦其實還能為我們的學界能夠再爭取更多的資源因為現在以他們遇到的這個困難度就是會覺得說申請的這個可能經費如主委說申請沒有那麼不容易但是可能的預算沒有調漲的話面對現在的物價面對現在所有的百物起漲可能沒有辦法去應付那如果可以爭取到更多的資源更多的預算給他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10831.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10851.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
他们在研究的时候经费会更宽裕这个部分也希望说主委跟国科会来努力为他们争取好 接下来我想请教主委我们学者要申请国科会的经费一定要遵守我们国科会国家科学及技术委员会补助专题研究计划作业要点 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10851.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10873.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
那其中的規範很多就是在規範研究計劃執行期間應該注意及遵守的事項包含如果是違反學術倫理還是違反性平等的有些規範以及懲處但主委我們的研究進行的這個計劃進行期間如果針對計劃主持人及研究助理他們有受到這個霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10875.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10895.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
除了血淪的事情之外可能還有遇到霸凌的狀況但是我們現在的重要要點沒有相關這個霸凌的處置及規範那如果他們計畫主持人發生了霸凌研究團隊的這個事件我們國科會有什麼作為或者說如果是相關的主管機關查到是屬實的我們這邊會不會有怎樣的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10898.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
10921.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
有 我們現在在這個學倫委員會裡面也已經把霸凌這個項目也已經把它涵蓋進來所以委員會開會也會一併討論這件事情所以這一次我們在處理台師大女足案我們已經有考慮這個事了所以相關的這個運作的程序跟規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
10922.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
10926.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
我們有納入考慮之後我們什麼時候會有明確的相關的規定現在已經有了在我們內規裡面都已經有在內規裡面都已經訂出來了因為我們在這個學術研究的這個過程裡面當然有時候是上位者或者是主持的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
10942.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
10970.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
他可能在一些不经意的这样子的过程里面也许会对我们的研究人员我们的团队有造成这样的伤害我们也希望说我们是落实的除了在性平方面在学龙方面在霸凌这一块我们是有注意到而且会处理的但我想请教一下如果说在学校的场域中受到的这样子的事件的第一时间他们会提报到学校由教育部来做相关的处置认定那我们这边的处置方式会是什么 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
10971.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
10991.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
国会的处置方式是以执行研究计划所产生的各种各样的问题,所以这是学术伦理的部分。还有他们在论文发表等等,在学术的领域,只要相关的事实被认定以后,我们有各种处置惩罚的方式,包含停权。 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
10992.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11021.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
停权有它的不同的这个年数包含追回它的研究的补助不能够得到研究奖励甚至还要追回过去的奖项等等有各种各样的所以情节严重的包括停权跟追回相关的补助都有我们都已经列入了其实很明确的好 谢谢主委谢谢主席好 谢谢陈秀宝召委主委请回接下来请葛如君委员 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11041.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11042.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
好謝謝有請主委有請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11049.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11070.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
各位好主委好很高興可以在這個會期又再看到你希望可以一起繼續的協作首先想先拜託主委一件事這個NVIDIA之前有來台灣設立這個所謂的創新研發中心那有這個所謂的超級電腦算力這個台北一號那不知道主委知不知道台北一號在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11071.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11095.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
在高雄我想我們用這樣的一個機制去提供全台這樣的一個算力的協助我覺得非常感謝不過根據我們的了解我們看到經濟部在申請資格這裡有一個很奇怪的設計就是說它說NVIDIA的算力管理規定說申請單位在申請的時候需要一次完整的使用6週或12週 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11097.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11123.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
那我們去研究了一下我們就發現其實有團隊跟我們反映說到最後申請下來多半都是以六週為主其實很少有人可以拿到12週為什麼因為太多人想用了而且這六週呢又必須要連續的他沒有辦法說我要申請長一點的時間可是我只用比如說12分之一的算力其實有團隊在反映說很感謝有這樣的一個機制但是我們都知道我想主委一定很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11124.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11153.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
其實科學研究六週等於差不多一個半月其實要一個半月就做出成果真的是相當困難所以在這個train error的過程裡面有沒有一個機會我是希望能夠幫這個學術單位能夠跟您反映一下有沒有一個更有彈性的使用的機制那我們也了解了其實NVIDIA根本沒有這個算力規定啦能不能您作為AI的大家長跟經濟部我知道這是經濟部處理的可是可不可以協作來試一下我們能不能有更彈性的 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11155.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11172.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
因為這個是經濟部的業務我並不了解他們現在運作的狀況委員的這個意見我會跟經濟部來溝通一下是 因為您是政委同時也是我們的主委我相信很多的科研單位都是跟你們申請計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11173.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11190.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
那計劃補助了以後他們確實是在使用這個算力來做研究那希望主委可以關心一下看能不能提供更好的一個彈性的方式否則其實有很多的單位跟我們反映到最後他們都只能使用AWS或是雲端的其他的算力費用也很高昂但是整體來講我覺得有點可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11192.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11204.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
那另外一方面是為什麼都到最後只能申請到六週也是因為有可能會有一個算力不足的這個狀況就是大家都在搶算力那我想請教一下有沒有台北二號的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11206.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11224.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
這個我沒有聽過可不可以幫忙爭取一下我想NVIDIA在台灣遇到這樣的挑戰可是我們接下來能不能還是能夠跟它持續的深化合作我希望主委再投出一顆好球好不好有沒有機會演繹一下這個部分幫我們的學者爭取一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11225.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11244.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
我們其實現在是有鼓勵民間投資啦那民間投資像偉創之通也宣布林董事長也宣布宣布說他們也要建置這個資料中心那他們也願意提供一部分的算力來鼓勵包含學界的研發成果要商業化這部分他們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11244.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11265.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
好 很好 因為這一次是NVIDIA提供25%的算力嘛我想這樣的一個機制希望能夠擴大那另外呢 整體來講算力可能還是有不夠的狀況啦接下來我們可以期待有沒有一個新的一個算力的中心可以讓這些研究機構或者產業能夠不要這樣子用搶的方式又搶不到 時間又很短能不能給我們一個願景啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11265.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11276.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
我們接下來一個更大的一個算力中心或者算力的一個算力池是什麼時間 多大的算力有機會可以期待主委有沒有一個大概的願景可以讓我們關注一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11277.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11301.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們預算有在逐年編列其實也跟委員報告過我們在台南會建置算力中心包含在南科台南園區那個是已經完工了正在裝置設備然後我們工建計畫明年從 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11303.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11320.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
從這個115年起開始設計就是沙倫的這個Data Center那這個我們也都會提供給學術界來那這個採購的部分預算都已經下去了嗎它是會採購這個NVIDIA或者其他這個新的算力這個算力的這個Petaflops有沒有一個預計啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11322.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11337.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
現在不算Pelaflops現在就是算力我們用這個耗電因為不是用瓦數來算是對的因為真正那個算力可以用它消耗的這個功率現在的GPU大概都差不多所以我們會採購 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11339.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11361.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
採購的這個設備現在沒有限定哪一家對不起 主委我請教一下對不起打斷你就是說如果你是用電力耗損度來看的話而不是用PetaFlops來算的話那我如果買一些比較舊型的這個顯卡或舊型的算力裝置它其實因為它可能是比較舊的奈米製程 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11361.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11379.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
它耗電功率比較大反而從瓦數來看它好像比較厲害可是實際上它的算力可能比較低沒有錯這個怎麼避免這樣的一個問題所以我們在比的時候這個是很難有一個公平的比法現在在比的時候當然都要談是現有的設備不是老的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11380.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11406.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
那各國都是用Petaflops在算還是用瓦數在算現在已經沒有Petaflops是早期的Supercomputer所以現在都是用瓦數在算你確定現在是這樣沒有錯那到時候我們就要看一下break down不然你到時候瓦數買了大家特別去買一些高功耗的結果算力比較弱的那你這樣子平均起來你說我們耗電量超大算力很強可是實際上算力不夠這很怪應該沒有那麼笨會故意買那個高耗能 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11407.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11425.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我相信主委你不會那麼笨啦但是也有人可能刻意不小心不聰明的話這樣不太好啦所以我們我希望大家一起來關注這個部分好不好這不是玩笑啦因為這都是名子名高好不好那另外呢我想接下來也要看一下謝謝你們準備這份業務報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11427.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11449.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
但是我覺得有一點緊張機器人的部分很重要對不對我們剛剛提到了這個全球是百億千億的在投入機器人的部分在這次業務報告佔多少主委有沒有一個概念85頁你猜一下大概佔多少應該很重要對不對你猜一下佔多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11450.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11478.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
你應該看過這一份嘛 對不對重不重要 很重要嘛我們行政院這個智慧機器人方案頭百億嘛 對不對 千億下去嘛就頭頭差不多兩百億 其中每一半對啊 占多少嘛 占多少85頁占多少85頁你有沒有一個概念這一次業務報告啦你應該看過嘛主委 時間有限你翻到11頁好不好11頁第11頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11479.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11503.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我們的智慧機器人在這次的業務報告竟然只佔了10行啊你是說幾行啊10行啊照我們的比例看起來170分之1喔170分之1喔結果你們的年度的預算也不過就這些200億也不少耶那沒有關係主委我理解不少啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11503.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11527.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
對啊不少啊但是你們的這個我覺得還不夠啦就是說規劃你仔細看一下你仔細看一下11頁你們的描述非常的空泛報告我們行政院那個方案也供到我理解我都放在手上了行政院方案我有拿到那我想要講的就是因為機器人對台灣的產業整合非常有意義而且很重要為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11527.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11554.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
在這個行政院方案的第八頁就寫了為什麼台灣要著重機器人很重要的原因是第一個半導體製造優勢行政院說的第二個知識通訊技術的優勢行政院說的第三個研發能量很強我們台灣的Machine Learning MLComputer Vision CV跟這個所謂的NLP自然語言處理都很強這三個整合起來就是機器人產業但是在這裡面我們還是有點擔心這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11558.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11579.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
實行的描述有一點空泛又有一點小怎麼佈局怎麼定位任務是什麼主委現在有沒有一個很明確的說法在看啊你看人家已經這個打中國功夫的打中國功夫啊出這種恐怖人形機器人都出啦我是想要問一下主委有沒有一個明確的佈局啊不然我們看了很緊張啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11582.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11609.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
報告委員我們要做服務型機器人產業需求要應付社會各種各樣需求我們藉助台灣現在既有的供應鏈我們很多廠商都已經準備好了我們要發展系統發展應用服務這個是我們現在的重點我們不是要去打擂台踢來踢去這個不是現在我們的重點我們在健康招呼在旅宿餐飲等等各種社會需求甚至防救災 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11610.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11624.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
這些我們都會發生這點主委我還是要提醒你一下我們可以不去跟人家打擂台別人可能會來跟我們打擂台啦所以我理解服務機器人是一個路線但是我還是要提醒主委智慧機器人裡面應該還是包含人形的 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11625.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11648.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
不是說你說我不跟你打 別人就不會來打你所以我想這一塊還是要往前衝啦不要說我們來不及了 我們比較晚了我們害怕 絕對不害怕人家打來一台我們要跟人家打好不好所以我們學術研究所有的機器不要去限制所以這一點我是跟您未來還是持續的協作 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11648.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11676.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
接著還是要繼續請教就是我想這個我們剛剛提到就是說你的實行誌裡面有提到說要補助學界協助學界研發我們先代替學界來感謝但是我們其實也有看到其實教育部有啟動一個頂尖研究中心的計畫五家大學有六大研究中心一年要投三億每一個中心分起來大概一年五千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11677.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11698.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
雖然這是教育部的計畫但是您是我們AI的大家長又是政務委員我想要請教也希望能夠來關注一下國科會在這六大研究中心裡面有沒有額外的再去matching就是說它這邊教育部五千萬了我知道有的幾個計畫是有做機器人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11699.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11716.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
有做robot learning的那我們可不可以集合起來有一個縱效因為五千萬要去研究這個真的老實說不多啦跟國際比起來國科會這裡可不可以這個研究中心我們國科會這裡也再補進去這樣產生一個縱效我想請教一下有沒有這樣的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11717.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11745.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
有啊 我們所有的這些大學教育部支持的這些研究中心他們同步也都會申請國科會的研究計畫所以這個是沒有問題的這個我知道您會這樣回答但是我想要講的是我們希望國科會能不能主動積極一點的去協助而不是坐在這裡等著他們來申請主委也理解啦申請研究計畫也很花時間要申請還不一定過對不對 沒錯嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11749.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11762.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
我們歡迎他們來申請但是我們不能夠說主動給他錢沒有經過一個審查程序是不行可以有審查程序但是能不能針對這幾個研究中心 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11763.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11783.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
可不可以有一個縱效的產生因為我清楚本來就可以讓他們申請但是一邊又要做教學一邊又要設立研發中心一邊又要再寫新的計畫來跟國會申請其實學者們的時間是有限的還要去寫計畫來申請台北一的算力 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11784.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11802.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
我是真的能不能請主委研議一下我們教育部國科會都希望能夠減少行政的成本我們優勢的人才才能夠跟國際競爭主委可不可以研議一下一個月內給一個研議的可能性好不好就怎麼樣產生縱效我們不是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11803.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11818.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
要做一個怎麼樣的一個批評或什麼真的是在幫我們台灣的這個學界不然五千萬可以 我們可以跟教育部來討論一下協調一下讓這個縱效可以發揮得更好太好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11819.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
11835.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
謝謝主委 這個很高興在新的會期看到主委那我想我們這樣一個正向的一個協作的機制我們可以設立起來那剛剛您提的研議的結果可不可以一個月內提供給我們辦公室 好不好好 謝謝委員謝謝主委 謝謝主席謝謝格羅遜委員質詢 主委請回座接下來請伍麗華委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
11850.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
11863.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
謝謝主席 有請主委請問主委吳委員好主委好我們都知道國科會就是在審查我們的科技預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
11864.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
11877.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
那我先了解一下因為我們的科技預算在112年度是1327億多那113呢就下降1276億那114呢又上升1466億那115呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
11886.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
11908.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
因為我們現在編列1640集所以現在是1600多億我們看一下因為過去各部會都會提案原民會這邊我看到它110到113年度的核定本它是這麼提的 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
11908.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
11932.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
他提到說他要做無限寬頻要增加涵蓋率那他要做友善耕作的養殖技法又提出說那些小微型企業強化他的產品特色跟創新服務模式那我就是想要了解一下主委我不知道歷年原民會是怎麼提 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
11933.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
11958.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
但是呢我看到如果加上像衛福部啊教育部抒發部等等他們有一些也是坐在原住民身上的一些相關費用大概每一個年度大概可以得到一億左右那這個一億大概是什麼呢一億在這個大水庫裡面大概就是萬分之五 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
11959.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
11979.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
大概是這樣的一個比例那我想這個會讓人家覺得說好像原住民跟科技好像拉不上關係或者想說原住民可能不太需要科技的預算那我也不知道說原民會他 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
11979.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
11990.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
的整個計畫想法裡面他可能也不太知道說我到底要怎麼樣去提報我的計畫來爭取這個科技預算主委你有沒有一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
11992.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12009.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
報告委員,我想從原民會自己提出來的,科技的計畫應該是不多,為什麼呢?因為整個原民會執行科技預算的能量其實並不是很高,但是我們並不是因為這個樣子就對原民會這邊的這個協助就減少,沒有。 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12011.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12033.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
譬如說我們講太空計畫來講我們雖然編在國科會太空中心可是我們是跟園民會一起來執行對我們這個原住民族還有偏鄉部落這個照顧就不會限定只是在園民會裡面主委這個就是我主要要請教您的原因因為我覺得很可惜啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12034.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12050.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
就是這是由各部會要來提報嘛要拿計畫來嘛但是想像有限啊所以我想請教一下國科會主委您的角色您覺得我們原民會其實可以來做哪一些跟科技有關的計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12053.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12069.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
其實我們都在進行當中,比如說我剛講除了太空科技計畫之外,我們還有科普教育的,在各個地方我們除了跟縣市政府來合作之外,我們也有跟園民會來合作。 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12070.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12099.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
那包含在国科会的研究计划资助学者的部分我们各个领域的学们其实只要牵涉到跟我们的原住民族有关的我们也都是鼓励他们要跟诸位这个我都了解因为我只是希望说国科会能够在这个咨询台上我听到一些给他们的建议我举个例子来讲刚才前面那一位提到机器人 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12100.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12124.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
我觉得我们现在在推动族语教学很需要那个语言的机器人那如果园民会提报这个计划可以吗可以啊可以支持啊是吗那像我们很多我们现在在推那个在宅医疗那我们其实园乡像我之前有特别去强调园住民有特别多的洗肾病患 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12125.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12148.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那從那麼偏遠的地方去醫院洗腎說實在一個禮拜三次對他們很辛苦所以我看到國外有洗腎車我希望能夠到原偏鄉服務那後來呢其實他們告訴我說就搭配這個在宅醫療計畫也同意了未來呢可以做在家的洗腎 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12149.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12166.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
但是呢很多的族人告訴我因為他還是有一些條件家裡要有人會做護理那有一些都是獨居老人啊所以可不可以有什麼樣的方式那或者是說像很多這樣的獨居的人有沒有照顧機器人 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12168.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12180.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
那其實還有很多老人家獨居嘛那可不可以我們報一個計畫所有的原住民55歲老人來有一個智慧手錶可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12182.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12208.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
这一类的计划其实我们是很欢迎欢迎嘛原民会那我叫原民会要多动头脑主政是卫福部我们跟卫福部其实现在正在努力合作要推动医疗分歧除了医学中心大医院之外希望能够到偏乡甚至到家户到住宅就是在宅医疗我们跟卫福部现在在合作推动这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12209.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12235.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
那經濟部會進來經濟部就是有關醫材醫材的這個部分產業還有這個速發部也會進來在這個AI的應用服務好 謝謝那當然有關這個原民偏鄉的部分我們當然很希望跟地方政府還有這個原民會能夠合作謝謝主委您這樣說我就放心因為其實我覺得要的東西很多跟科技有關因為我覺得既是偏鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12237.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12259.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
為了要彌平這個所謂的數位平權 數位落差它就本來就必須政府要給予積極性的差別待遇而不是說我越偏鄉我就越不需要那政府應該要積極的差別待遇所以像這一次花蓮 馬太安溪的煙色湖科技防災就發揮很大的功效因為有無人機團隊去做這個偵查 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12263.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12272.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
運補 真的是發揮很大的功效那我也覺得說其實 園民會可以多提一些科技防災的東西像我們就很需要 人才培育也可以給錢嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12275.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12297.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
像這些非手的訓練但是部會爭取到預算要有執行單位因為他不是公務員在執行的要有執行單位如果這些執行單位也牽涉到其實也都是學界產業界的話其實就不能重疊啦所以我是希望委員會跟其他的其他部會合作啦當然是合作因為他自己提我就怕他無法執行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12298.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12315.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
这个我们会来要求因为学界一定会连结到国科会对 连结是可以但是你说它独立的量能有问题有时候跟人家合作也很容易被边缘化如果不够积极的话所以我还是希望说 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12316.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12323.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
他有一個獨立的這樣的一個科技預算那我覺得至少責任感是要有啦那包括我們講的這些農噴這些無人機的運用或者是呢我們希望你們的研究成果落地那這一些科技包括我剛剛講的語言機器人等等我們都希望能夠來做處理那謝謝主委因為聽到您這樣的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12340.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12365.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
回應 我覺得至少我們可以讓園民會有一個方向那謝謝您那另外一個部分其實我也想要再請教一下主委因為很多的原住民學者專家其實他們非常在意所以我才會好幾次的來質詢像我6月18號的時候我有就這個原住民學門的建構來去做質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12367.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12391.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
當時呢 主委你有提到說 你允諾朝原民期刊的方向然後呢 跨部會培立專題研究團隊所以呢 我也在7月3號的時候邀請過科會的夥伴來開一個諮詢會議那麼他們也給我三個承諾就是第一個 會診散落各地的期刊論文把它變專書 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12392.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12418.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那國際期刊的部分就是由國際學會然後支持國內教授爭取主持那第三個就是知識培力團隊跨部會討論然後會複資本辦那已經又過了三個月了所以我在質詢台上因為我並沒有拿到相關的一個資料所以想要請教一下有沒有盤點了那至少要告訴我期程規劃的方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12420.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12443.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
我們人文處其實已經有積極在進行有關國際期刊的部分目前是因為台灣的這個學界評估的結果是沒有能力現在是沒有能力以這個主題要變成是一個國際性的期刊因為國科會是一個行政機關但是有提到我們討論的時候就是說國內教授爭取主持了 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12443.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12472.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
如果國內的教授要成立一個學會這個學會要去辦期刊國科會會支持的好那希望我就是要拿到這樣的一個相關規劃跟期程我總不能好幾個月過去我都給我一些承諾然後我也不知道到底結果如何好那我請我們人文組把這個報告送給你謝謝主委那主委你應該明白我的心思啦就是原名學術化 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12473.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12491.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
學術原民化我的意思是說我們不應該只是說讓整個學術界好像原民進入而是我們希望整個學術界能夠也有原民化族群主流化的概念這個對整個原住民的未來的一個提升是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12492.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12511.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
所以我一直希望就是朝專書出版去累積我們原民的學術能量建立這樣的一個基礎因為現在政府也編很多的錢在做原住民的知識體系但是我覺得那個進展非常的慢而且我也認為方向方法也是有點問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12512.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12534.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
但是我希望藉著國科會的力量像專書 期刊這一些能夠慢慢慢慢的把原住民知識生產的方式跟它實踐的一個方法學把它架構起來所以我希望一個月內就是針對我尖關性的這些能夠給我一個回應好嗎好 謝謝主委謝謝吳麗華委員質詢主委請回座接下來請吳佩奕委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12547.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12550.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
謝謝主席 我請國科會吳主委請吳主委吳委員好主委好 我們國科會是負責國家科技戰略的規劃那業務牽涉到了跨部會的協作那也有我們科研如何來跟產業協作所以面向可以說相當的廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12570.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12591.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
今天在業務報告當中有很多是我們很肯定的計劃希望可以持續那我今天就幾個我比較關注的個案來跟主委討論首先是師大女足案跟我們學術倫理的改革在這個案件當然是國人非常重視關心的是怎麼樣校園裡面會出現這樣可以說是人倫的悲劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12595.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12621.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
但是他後來大家就知道說那也是我們的學術計畫研究之一也包括我們國科會的計畫所以主委當時在這個個案上面馬上就做出了處置了我們就這個個案後來做了哪些的追究的處置首先我們對當事的教授包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12623.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12640.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
女主的教練跟她的老師我們已經有在記者會有宣布對他們的處罰分別停權五年四年另外我們也對還有追回她的研究補助的經費 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12641.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12658.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
另外我們對學校因為初期管理不當沒有積極的在處理這件事情對學校也有連帶的處分這個我們都在媒體都宣布了終止補助也追繳台師大補助經費246萬中央大學80萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12662.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12668.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那麼這一案呢就不只是學術倫理其實因為他也是失對生的霸凌相當的嚴重所以當時國科會有提到說要針對我們國科會的研究計畫當中涉及人體研究的計畫要做一個全面的清查這個有沒有清查的結果了 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12679.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12699.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
我們已經有清查,然後已經詢這個程序在教育部、衛福部我們共同的平台上面現在已經在處理當中,要分別由教育部跟衛福部發函給這些學校 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12701.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12715.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那學校要啟動然後要回報到到我們主責的部會包含衛護部教育部那對國科來講收到這個報告以後我們會就這個學術倫理的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12716.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12729.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
再來決定是不是要有一些處置所以全面清查的部分已經在進行還在進行當中我們已經清查完了所以我們目前在等待學校回報嗎對那我們預計什麼時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12732.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
12760.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
這個deadline是什麼時候什麼時候會收到所有的回報然後我們這裡國科會有辦法做出最終有關學輪的審議是跟委員報告這總共有97件的這個就是說要重新去檢視的案件那都陸陸續續已經回報那我們目前會跟教育部這邊你們要求學校什麼時候之前要回報完成總是有個時間吧有他已經回報回來了全部都回報還是陸陸續續回報 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
12762.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
12776.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
97件都已經回報給你們所以現在在等你們囉他是回報給教育部因為主責教育部還沒給你們教育部他已經聯絡我們剛好在這個禮拜這個禮拜教育部聯絡你們了所以現在在等國科會做最終學輪的審議是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
12778.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
12805.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
不是 因為主責的單位是教育部所以教育部會聯合國科會這邊召開會議然後邀請相關的學者針對那97案教育部跟國科會一起來做對 就是說主責雖然是教育部但他也會找我們那目前有沒有拼桌什麼時間正在約下禮拜或下下禮拜會邀集相關的專家針對這97案的結果去做一個最終的審議看起來應該是10月底啦會有最終的審議或11月初 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
12807.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
12809.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
對 報告委員 這一面的審議是從裡頭去篩選出說 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
12812.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
12837.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
比較重大 就是說需要再進入真正人體研究的法規的懲處的我們就會進行敘處所以目前就各個學校所調查的結果我們要去做一個比較詳細的我了解 因為涉及的學校多也有跨部會之間的合作所以這個案件過去這一年多來這個過程我知道主委你從初期就開始關切 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
12838.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
12847.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
但是國人也在想怎麼會處理的時間需要那麼久呢所以我想後續的處置還是非常重要的這個部分要請主委再來幫忙跟跨部會大家一起來把這個時間要把它抓緊我希望今年底以前我們可以知道一個你們最終檢查的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
12858.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
12875.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
究竟是不是個案如果是有個案以外其他的案例的話那當然我們的改革要趕快開始啟動所以國科會除了個案之外作為針對後續的改革主委在9月提出4點那第一個是我們的研究人員的學術倫理守則 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
12876.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
12891.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
新訂喔 已經完成了這個這個肯定你們那關於我們多年期計畫 就是每一年你要再來經過研究倫理的審查 以及你的國科會學術倫理案件審議要點要來修改這兩個這兩個項目我們有沒有 也已經完成了好那 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
12898.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
12910.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
要請你們再把資料公開或者提供因為我們關心的時候還沒有收到這個後續的這個改革很重要所以請主委要來關切 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
12912.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
12936.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
主委在這個案件的檢討當中除了這個改革你也提到說希望未來我們的研究計畫學界整體的環境不要只偏重投稿的幾篇論文而是要去注重它實際的貢獻當時主委提到說因為我們不要鼓勵老師單純為了衡量去量產論文就是充點數充偏數主委你認為我們這個後續應該怎麼來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
12942.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
12953.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
我們已經在各處我們各學術處在這個學問召集人會議我們也都宣導過了那相關的這個表格包含計畫申請表格以及在成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
12954.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
12983.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
他要结案的时候他要申报他的计划执行的成果在成果的表现上面我们也都把规范都改了希望能够注重的是他对产业对社会对学术的贡献不是只是在计算论文的偏速这个事情这些机制我们都已经做好了已经开始在执行了同时我们将来也在试探场会对各大学 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
12984.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13010.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
會來宣導這個事這個我想對學界整體來說其實是一個非常重大的變革那麼這個問題其實也討論多年就像我在當我也做過國科研究計畫助理我也做過中研院的研究助理這個研究人員必須要為了你們這個量產這個衡量的標準他去每年一定要幾篇一定要登上哪一個期刊一定要怎麼樣這個整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13012.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13033.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
回過頭來也影響到整個學術生產的過程所以我認為你們最後這個衡量標準的變革是非常重要的那也很期待它對學界它有一個長遠的良善的影響那看到中研院在今年2月開始也新增了一個叫做敘述性的履歷 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13034.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13058.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那一樣的意思就是說不只看量要看其他方面的貢獻所以也希望說在我們現在在改革當中嘛未來跟學界也要持續的多聽意見來多溝通我們希望整體的學術環境可以來提升那麼除了學術研究之外國科會也有計畫是災防防災不管是科技上面的經濟也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13060.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13077.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
這個我們10月8號福衛8號就齊柏林已經齊運到美國了現在預計是11月要來升空在我們目前台灣的防災當中像這一次花蓮 馬太安我們的福衛5號是不是也事先就有收集到相關的遺像來提供是 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13078.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13105.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
我們災防中心在收集各部位的資料也包含我們國科會自己的資料我們太空中心現在在服役的服衛五號也發揮了蠻大的這個功效所以這個資料我們也同步整合到災防中心做這個研判那服衛八號因為它是未來是一個新系不只是一顆未來會怎麼樣來協助提升我們的災防呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13106.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13121.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
福岳八号相较于福岳五号它解析度更精细了可以看得更精准它在明年的春季就会开始提供这个服务跟福岳五号合起来 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13122.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13138.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
我們等於多了一顆衛星了那將來這個能夠觀察的時間更長就是更多次的這個經過台灣的上空我們可以觀察到所以會做得更精準所以明年春季就可以開始來提供那非常期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13138.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13153.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
那我們預計一定是希望要順利那我們也看到這個太空中心是不是有預計跟日本的太空公司iSpace有簽訂一個合約我們要來推動台灣首個國家級月球探勘任務嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13155.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13176.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這個我請吳主任來好 謝謝這是一個open的tent就是公開招標然後我們有兩個籌宅一個是清大一個是我突然忘記哪個學校大概是2028會送上去NULA他上去以後就land在那邊做一個是光學UV量測一個是另外一個量測所以是跟他們有合作 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13177.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13188.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
臺灣首次的登月任務預計在2028年我們非常期待也預祝要順利好謝謝主委謝謝謝謝佩儀委員質詢主委請回座接下來請楊瓊英委員質詢楊瓊英楊瓊英委員不在接下來請賴慧瑩委員質詢謝謝主席我請那個國科會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13207.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13227.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
天鵝主委是主委那個最強的台南之光還是要再利用這一個時間跟主委來探討一下就是說智慧機器人這一個進度那我想這個智慧機器人的產業計畫在 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13229.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13237.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
明年上路了我相信國科會做了很多的一個準備在10年100億的國發基金還有4年100億的應用科技的一個預算裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13248.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13276.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
我想在這裡特別跟國科會主委做一個請教主委我們成立新創公司如果以我們過往達成的情形來看的話好像申請的公司非常多可是實際達標的並不多是不是就是說你有一些什麼樣針對的就是機器人產業有沒有什麼樣的配套措施跟一起的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13276.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13293.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
我們配套措施就是第一我們大南方新矽谷在將來要發展也希望能夠協助百官百業現在重點包含健康照護還有旅宿餐飲未來會發展到智慧城市其他的應用 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13295.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13303.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
這個搭配起來會讓我們的服務型機器人的發展至少會創造我們的內需市場創造內需市場能夠讓台灣的產業發展以後又能夠進到國際市場好 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13309.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13331.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
目前我們這個計畫裡頭我們橫跨了哪幾個部會像你的優稅匯率你必須要橫跨財政部然後就是說其他的部會像你這個也是衛福部就像你在講的長照的部分那目前你們的計畫就是說這個跨部會是跨哪幾個部會以智慧機器人這個項目來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13334.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13354.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
目前主責的部會包含國科會跟經濟部以及數位發展部是在發展科技的部分那國發會就是編列這個國發基金來協助我們在投資新創以及人才培育的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13355.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13378.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
人在北域也会牵涉到教育部那未来在我刚刚提到在机械人的产业在应用端应用端会牵涉到如果是健康招呼就会有卫福部甚至还有运动部然后在旅宿餐饮的部分也会有经济部交通部等等好你身为一个召集人我想你把这整个 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13379.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13396.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
進程 演成的一個計畫做了一個很好的概括的論述那這裡我特別要講的就是說地方人才的一個培育那在兩個禮拜前我跟教育部請教就是說人才培育跟四幻學校的一個協作 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13397.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13420.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
因為事實上就是說在這整體的一個運作裡頭我們希望就是說我們在地有學校那個學程學程就是等於是他的課程裡頭是不是有辦法排進來那教育部他樂觀其成他希望就是說因為我的白河商工他是國立的他很願意去承接就是說機器人 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13420.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13428.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
他就是在那個基礎的這個那個學習的課程裡頭他們希望把他納入這個課程可是缺老師 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13430.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13451.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
缺失職那你有没有什么比较好的一个建议呢这一部分如果是在高职的部分我们是建议可能可以跟我们的科技大学这边一起来合作那科技大学在国科会的部分我们也会编预算来支持特别是在南部这些科技大学 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13452.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13470.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
那你有沒有建議就是說幾個比較優的科技大學那你看教育部還可以編預算給他這個就是都是製造雙贏是那教育部其實不是只有在中小學教育部也有在技職師在科技大學的部分他們也有投資所以像 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13471.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13498.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
像在台南的话有好几个科技大学都不错主委所以我想这个会后再跟你做一个探讨这个四环学校那需要的一个师资还有需要的一个经费那我们是不是朝着先把这个四环学校先把它就是做了一个计划那这样子的话等于是说在末端的时候我们还是有人才的一个培育可以到位好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13501.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13518.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
好,那在這裡我還特別要跟那個主委講到了就是說你這個每一個部會的具體的一個跨部會合作的SOP還有就是100億投資引進的一個機制跟目標跟企業的一個進度表這個你要給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13519.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13536.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
还有就是AI机器人四万学校那个四万学校的一个协作的一个规划跟国科会协作的一个项目也请你把资料给我好不好好谢谢主委谢谢赖会员委员质询主委请回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13537.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13565.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
接下来请严宽恒委员质询严宽恒委员不在请徐富奎委员质询徐富奎委员不在请高金素梅委员质询高金素梅委员不在请罗明才委员质询罗明才委员不在请钟嘉斌委员质询钟嘉斌委员不在请苏清泉委员质询 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13566.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13590.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
蘇清泉 蘇清泉委員不在 請吳思瑤委員質詢吳思瑤 吳思瑤委員不在 請林楚英委員質詢林楚英 林楚英委員不在 請何欣淳委員質詢何欣淳 何欣淳委員不在 請蔡易瑜委員質詢蔡易瑜 蔡易瑜委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13593.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13611.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
那邱委員邱志偉要發言了那給您3分鐘好謝謝主席有請國科會吳主委請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13620.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13645.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
請問幾次跟你討論這個台積電的全球佈局全球佈局當然也包括國內佈局國內佈局當然我關心是這個男子產業園區男子產業園區台積電確定有5場都是2奈米這你知道嗎現在大概規劃第6場我看媒體有報導說第6場1.4奈米會落腳高雄不曉得你掌握的狀況怎麼樣那高雄裡面有幾個選區有幾個幾塊可以選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13650.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13673.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
還是在南市產業園區,不怕那些地有夠窮,另外一地就是在岡山跟橋頭交接的白浦產業園區,溝通夠好,生活性又便利。就您了解的狀況,有沒有可能這個第六場1.4奈比的,駐落在高雄,白浦,那白浦產業園區的條件,您覺得怎麼樣? |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
13676.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
13684.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
目前 報告委員目前我們當然很積極在跟台積電在討論可能的園區的位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
13686.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
13705.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
但是這個先進製程要形成聚落所以目前台積電所選還是希望在南梓科學園區能夠有六個廠的建置現在高雄市政府也在努力努力的在其實南梓產業園區跟百貨商業園區距離大概只有五公里 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
13707.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
13722.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
對 但是因為這個是成本上它在這個整個基礎設施的建置 供應鏈還有管線等等如果它是同一個聚落它才有辦法降低它的成本蘇護主委一直點頭我再請蘇護主委上來好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
13723.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
13738.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
一直在嚇唬我啊好 叔叔叔會講得比我更清楚不是 白鶴產業園已經最了解嘛這個跟南市產業園區大概五公里的距離那剛剛市政委希望說把它分散當然不會影響到它聚落的形成啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
13739.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
13761.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
因為不是一南一北 距離才5公里你覺得白埔財運園區的條件如何其實所有基地的開發都是涉及到廠商的需求那是我們尊重廠商的需求那所有的這些交通動線或者是再生水這些相關的基地的這個條件要能夠配置起來再生水我們努力了很久 原來沒有鋼橋再生水廠我努力之下才有再生水廠因為水電沒有問題嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
13763.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
13785.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
所以這個都是搭配性的 整體配套措施在基地的周邊我們都要備具上廠商的需求固然重要 但是政策的建議跟引導也非常重要我一直期待說不管是經濟部 國花會或者是國科會能夠在政策上給你一些建議你說把六個廠完全集中在這個男子餐廳固然不行但是如果能稍微分散一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
13786.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
13804.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
而2奈米的全部集中在楠梓但未來這個如果1.4奈米可以集中在這個百福財源區 也許還可以設第7場也不一定所以我是建議說今天特別會來跟主委跟副主委拜託就是說一定要在政策上面給一些建議跟引導 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
13806.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
13828.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
委員建議我們當然會提供給台積電由他們來評估它的可行性好 謝謝好 謝謝委員謝謝邱志文委員的發言諸位請回座那現在請徐副會委員質詢但時間可能要打個折扣三分鐘 謝謝請諸位謝主席 有請吳諸位謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
13832.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
13839.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
主委我們國科會目前規劃台灣首批的六顆低軌通訊衛星預計2027年發射那從美國這邊進行嗎主委這個有信心兩年之內會完成嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
13845.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
13873.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
我们第一颗预计2027年初第一颗那当然我们现在按照时程在进行当中那我们台湾自制的火箭什么时候可以发射升空我们台湾自制的火箭目前的规划是我们去年宣布就是十年所以在2034那能不能加快因为我们现在都已经在做太空产业尤其在屏东已经做了这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
13874.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
13891.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
加快它的困難度在於我們國家發射廠的建置的程序我們現在也是按照程序在進行當然如果有機會加快的話我想我們在科技研發研發的部分再努力可以提前是沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
13893.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
13908.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
也要特別感謝諸位支持把這個發射廠能夠設在屏東那對屏東來講已經跳脫過去的農業線的我們希望能夠發展成一二三級的一個全方位的一個產業報告委員 這個酒棚不是這個棚打錯了 這是中間對 未來我們在屏東要建立這個研發中心有機會嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
13915.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
13930.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
在哪裡屏東建立這個太空的研發中心有機會嗎研發中心我們現在鼓勵各學術界都進來做所以屏東也有不錯的學校不管屏東大學 屏東科技大學我們都歡迎學者來進行我們太空科技的研發 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
13931.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
13953.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
那除了這個學術合作之外因為我知道現在目前我們教育部這邊合訂了包含陽明交大、成大跟台北科技大學跟馮甲大學做這樣的一個太空工程研究所那我們屏東剛剛主委有講我們有屏東大學跟屏東科技大學應該未來就地取材就地來培育我們的這個太空產業是是是 我們非常鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
13954.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
13966.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
在屏東的這些高等學府研究機構都來跟我們太空中心合作我們會協助他們來發展對 主委 另外我們鄉親我們屏東的鄉親比較關心的這個太空產業到底是一個金雞母還是一個只會長兩歲的雞母你覺得未來對於我們這個基礎建設跟產業部分有沒有什麼樣的給我們鄉親一個比較正面的一個消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
13981.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14002.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
我們覺得台灣有實力形成未來在低軌通訊衛星的產業鏈裡面變成是一個蠻關鍵的一個角色現在我們電子五個裡面有兩家公司也進來已經積極跟我們台灣中心在合作一個是偽算自通另外一個就是人寶電腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14004.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14028.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
把智慧製造我們台灣強項就是在自動性系統的智慧製造結合我們未來太空通訊衛星的系統包含衛星本體籌載以及地面站還有使用者的終端設備等等將來這個產業鏈形成起來以後特別是我們在南部的投資會連結在一起將來在全世界的供應鏈會佔有很重要的角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14030.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14045.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
主委 我想我們期待未來這個能夠在酒棚這邊另外設立一個太空博物館跟教育館未來我們的這個學校校外教學不是只有來看我們肯定國家公園應該也要做一個先進科技的一個教育你剛才也支持這樣的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14046.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14066.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
有啊現在平東縣政府還有台東縣政府因為鄰近的地區雙東一起來我們會在共同發展剛才委員說這個不管是博物館還是教育館我們會好好的規劃跟兩個地方政府來合作這個拜託我們期程要加快再拜託主委一下謝謝好 謝謝謝謝副國務委員質詢主委請回座 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14071.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14099.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
今天登记质询委员均已发言完毕另有谢龙健委员提出书面质询关于今天会议做如下决定报告及询答完毕委员所提书面质询或相关资料列入记录并刊登公报对于委员质询要求提供相关资料或未及答复部分请相关机关尽速以书面答复报告委员会今天议程处理完毕现在散会谢谢各位 |