| IVOD_ID |
169697 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169697 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-26-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
12 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-28T10:46:47+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-28T11:05:36+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:18:49 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/89665fc2cee9c367b9175ade575bfb4b7a79f49b44e0745677815697e441d1b45347f071d6b30dbb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
廖偉翔 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:46:47 - 11:05:36 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：審查
一、國民黨黨團擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。
二、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。
三、委員林月琴等19人擬具「失智症基本法草案」案。
【僅詢答】【第三案如經復議則不予審查】） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
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在本席訓導完休息十分鐘謝謝主席感謝主席今天排案喔那我想這個蠻重要的喔因為這次本席到WHA的時候跟部長私底下在聊也在聊這個失智症的問題喔那想要先請我們次長呃呂次長請呂次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
26.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
44.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
市長我們今天就談制度,沒有要談個案。所以行政院長有公開質疑,他說失智就是一種症狀,一種態樣,有沒有必要立一部基本法。我想要先問你的專業判斷,失智症是一種症狀嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
46.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
70.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
有需要立法嗎?你認同嗎?我要先澄清那個院長的意思他並不是指他有一個上下脈絡啦這個脈絡就是說來次長您看一下僅針對一種症狀符合社會需要嗎?這是我們卓院長講的話呀所以我就是要問你你認同他的這個說法嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
72.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
95.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
我現在先說 剛剛部長剛剛也有回答嘛其實他現在他的成因確實就是說醫學上面 現在目前大家有認為血管性白先生市長你可以簡單回答我就好所以你是認同還是不認同他的這個說法也就是說失智只是一種症狀有沒有需要立法這個說法 這個質疑啦 你認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
97.94 |
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112.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
他確實是一個病症的表徵啊失智症確實是這樣所以你認同他只是一種症狀嗎你要確定喔這個連台灣失智症協會都出來打臉喔他們就是認為所以你還是要認為是這樣嗎是上禮拜五其實台灣失智症協會就來拜會各個黨團喔他們長期在深耕在這個領域喔所以您是認不認同院長講的這個話 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
127.639 |
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149.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好 次長我跟你說 你講不出你認同 為什麼因為你也比誰都清楚 他不只是一種症狀連台灣失智症協會也都公開打臉這句話 問題就在這裡為什麼今天會討論這個事 因為行政院最高層對失智症的認知跟你的專業 跟這38萬個失智的家庭是差了一大截 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
150.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
173.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
所以一個連失智要不要立法都還在質疑的行政院怎麼可以讓我們的失智症的家庭放心呢所以這就是為什麼不能靠誰的一句話需要靠一部法律喔所以次長要問你一下喔你們依照你們委託國衛院的這個相關的研究全國調查65歲以上的失智盛行率是7.99%85歲以上更高達23.23%大約是每四個85歲以上的長者就有一個對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
180.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
184.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
所以換算人數現在有35萬如果包含年輕的就是有到38萬那他們遇過2041年畢竟68萬等於是翻倍啊那請問這個數字您 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
198.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
217.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
你認不認同 你有沒有瞭解 掌握到這個數字有嗎我完全掌握完全掌握很好所以就是在我們的委託報告裡面對 很好所以這68萬的背後其實代表的是68萬個家庭是的 沒錯對 那次長施志政的政策綱領啊政策綱領2.0去年底就到齊了 對不對對 沒錯對 那我直接問你新的獨立的3.0的行動綱領公告了沒 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
228.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
245.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們現在目前的一個做法就是我們現在目前就是把它在那個長照3.0裡面是一個專章所以就是沒公告因為沒有新的獨立的3.0的綱領已經公告了好我講給你聽好您看一下簡報我講給你聽這不叫做公告這不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
245.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
263.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
失智症的獨立的綱領喔這個失智症2.0的綱領2025年底到期你們沒有獨立的3.0然後你降級成了2.0 plus塞進長照3.0的一個專章你剛才講是專章嘛你們放到長照裡面的專章嘛所以我說沒有獨立的綱領啊沒有獨立的3.0綱領啊 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
268.974 |
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289.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以我跟市長講一下,這我整理出來給你了嘛,沒有獨立的3.0,聽得清楚嗎?你是降級成所謂的2.0+,你塞進長照3.0的一個專章,所以換言之你沒有獨立的3.0綱領,那一個失智症他不是一個獨立的綱領的情況之下, |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
290.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
318.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
服務你可能會說服務沒有中斷或是有放到3.0裡面可是本質都只是一個行政命令它沒有法律的位階沒有強制力預算說砍可能就砍而且失智證這個失智牽涉12個部會你只把它放在長照底下一個專章夠嗎報告委員我覺得最重要的是要執行法律通過之後其實也是要執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
320.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
345.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
要執行是不是?最重要是執行的問題啊來次長我跟你講一個失智長輩可能的處境會發生什麼事失智最可怕的是我想你也很清楚他是不挑時間的一個失智的阿公他可能半夜就凌晨就突然起床出門那因為他人還可以正常的走動他只是忘了自己是誰要回到哪裡於是一家人在凌晨可能在街上就到處找 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
346.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
374.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
報警協尋我也有同仁也遇過這樣的事這個部分是內政部他可能被詐騙集團騙去開人頭帳戶一輩子的積蓄被騙光這可能是金管會法務部他還能不能開車上路這是交通部而照顧他的女兒為了他的工作為了他可能只能夠辭職那這是勞動部要管的所以一個失智者一個家庭他從凌晨到白天一整天他可能跨了四五個部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
375.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
399.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
然後你們會服務一個其實是指揮不動的你們沒有辦法指揮這麼多跨部會的事情所以最近也有這個相關的這個首都候選人就很重要的一個概念是要怎麼樣讓一個人順順的過一天要讓他跟家人的時間對齊對齊就可以發生很多事情可是失智症到底這個情況要怎麼對齊你要對齊你要跨很多的部會啊是 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
401.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
427.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以你要跨很多的部會啊你要跨很多的部會啊所以你在委員會裡面在處理這個問題啊所以沒錯所以他要跨很多部會所以我要講的事情是一個行政計畫一個行政命令是不夠的他需要跨部會的權力而且需要有人統治所以我們現在長照推動委員會裡面就在這個機制裡面處理好那我跟你講為什麼現在台灣施治政協會他們認為就是放在一個長照3.0裡面一個獨立的專章不夠嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
427.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
454.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
為什麼非要專法不可因為現在你會說現在有政策綱領有長照3.0在做何必立法那我就是要告訴你為什麼行政計畫不夠一定要立一部法所以我剛剛舉例了一整個這個生活的過程第一行政計畫沒有法律位階第一行政計畫沒有法律位階所以你的預算執行可能換個部長就換了可能就轉完了那38萬個家庭的保障我相信這麼重的問題應該不會啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
457.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
483.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
市長你這個態度有點不好喔不叫做應該不會我再跟你講為什麼非要專法不可你剛剛說應該不會那你裡面還有一個應該的概念嘛所以應該不會還是有不確定性啊所以現在就是不能建立在看行政院的心情上也不能建立在可能人換了想法不同了就開始不執行了或是不對了所以第二行政計畫是指揮不動話不會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
485.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
511.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
只會不動跨部會的,你只能夠協調所以你有權指揮勞動部嗎?你有權指揮金管會嗎?所以只有法律才可以克與每個部會法定的責任針對失智症的患者和家庭第三,行政計畫也沒有克責做不好沒有任何人要負法律的責任所以這是為什麼今天我們要討論這件事情基本法才能夠把它變成國家的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
513.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
526.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
我要跟你講的是這個部分我前面跟蘇是一連串要跟你這樣說的所以這是為什麼日本2023年通過2024年他開始實施實質證基本法而且他拉到了首相的層級 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
527.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
551.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這部分一定要讓次長知道這個我了解對 韓國2011年就立法了對不對2012年實施 實行所以實質上這些國家他們是當成國安的問題在處理在立法的那我們現在目前已經有38萬的家庭遇到這樣的事情他很快舍得部會我想難道還不夠嗎所以我就是想要問次長我剛講這麼多是想問次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
553.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
578.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
所以衛福部你們支不支持施政基本法的立法?支持還是不支持?我們都會來多方來研議,謝謝所以您是研議,那您是支持還是不支持?所以我們會來聽各方的意見剛剛部長是說尊重立法院啦對不對,尊重立法院嘛所以我們立了這個基本法你們會支持等於是你們就尊重,就會支持是這樣嗎?我們尊重立法院好,尊重立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
580.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
607.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
好所以再來主條的來跟您討論一下因為我們希望說次長現在失智症還有個很現實的問題其實很多人可能根本也不知道自己失智了因為失智症有很多是往往是沒有病識感沒錯對所以常常要等到家屬覺察察覺甚至可能要壓著去看醫生壓著去檢查他才可能確診那所以可是我們現在的成人健檢老人健檢到現在也沒有常態的納入 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
608.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
624.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
認知功能的評估所以我們是訴求是不是要回去把這個認知功能的檢測正式納入成人跟老人健檢然後並配套轉介的機制不要塞來塞去卻沒有處可以去這部分可不可以OK好我們來研議OK |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
625.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
645.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
好 演繹 那你的演繹是要給的其實現在是這樣啦我們現在目前就是全責型的這個醫院我們就是希望能夠在早期能夠來做透過這個方式來做一個早期的Screaming嘛對 就是要提早發現嘛你提早發現才知道剛剛部長在答詢的時候他也有說嘛我們現在會來加強有關於全責型這部分所以我剛剛上夜喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
653.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
681.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
剛剛所以這裡講的就是說早期這一塊還有公照中心這一塊對你要趕快去推動因為如果簡單來講你納入一個這個一個認知功能的基本檢測然後就是補助讓他們去做的話其實它是大概率會比較多人去用的因為事實上我認為現在38萬人搞不好還是有黑數喔很多人他可能有但是他不知道他也不想面對也不會自己主動說我要去篩檢嘛所以其實他可能真正受苦的家庭是更多的沒錯沒錯所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
683.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
705.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
請這個次長回去你們一個兩個禮拜可不可以給本席辦公室一個一個方向案報告兩個禮拜可不可以給本席辦公室這一塊好OK我們會來提問不過我也那個就是兩個補充啦第一個就是說現在目前全世界應該還沒有對於整個施政的普篩因為這個裡面其實基本上還是有精準的一個整個的一個檢測嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
706.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
720.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
所以我剛說公照中心等這些的前端這邊趕快來強化但是你剛也認同要提早發現會比較好所以精準度是一個問題沒有錯但是現在有很多不同種的方式所以現在只是說你要提供一種認知檢測讓他 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
723.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
740.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
可以都去測試那當他出來之後如果真的有狀況再進一步的檢測嘛沒錯沒錯對嘛現在還有所謂的TOW的這個這個檢測方式沒錯沒錯大家就三個階段嘛就是像委員說的就是先Screaming然後呢整個確認然後再自聯所以我本期要求具體的就是說早期的這個認知基準檢測的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
741.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
770.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第二個就是年輕失智症的這個發病的時候他人可能還在上班那現在的制度大多是等到他失能失業家庭垮了才接手所以我認為啦這個可能要比照這個CRPD的精神雇主對於初期失智員工有一些職場合理調整的義務然後政府要建立對於年輕型的失智職場的支持那另外現行的家庭照顧假也只有短期臨時性那可能不足以 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
771.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
790.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
處理失智症長期的追蹤、陪診、行為照顧或是照顧安排所以到時候應該也要去規劃有沒有另外的價別的規劃希望這個部分這個勞動部的這部分主要是勞動部的權責我在這裡講出來希望勞動部在這方向也要演繹勞動部有沒有代表來有那個副司長 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
803.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
812.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
委員剛剛所提的勞動部的意見就是包含說這些假的研議或者是說相關的就業支持這一塊我們勞動部會帶回去研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
813.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
840.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那研議的時間呢一個月因為委員因為這個部分其實我們之前其實委員會這邊也有做過討論所以有委員來要求我們勞動部跟衛福部這邊因為這個還是有涉及到跨部會對所以之前其實很好都有做一些所以你凸顯出的基本法的重要性因為跨部會啦你們如果沒有這個的話其實一直研議研議我也不知道研議到什麼時候這個真的需要有更高位的層級來指揮那 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
842.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
861.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
所以你說因為牽扯到衛福部那你還是總是要給本席一個時間吧還要跟他們溝通對不對所以好那我就再追問啦剛剛有說到現在有在執行那我想要請問一下你們針對失智症這件事情我請次長回答好了你們跨部會開會了幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
863.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
882.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
包委員關於這一個相關議題我們有一個雙次長跟勞動部這邊三次長雙次長我記得應該有三次的會議從什麼時候到現在三次可不可以提供給本席辦公室一個時間和你們討論的內容以及結果好不好結論好嗎那這個會後就提供給我好不好一個禮拜以內給我給本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
884.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
907.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好再來這個也要問次長因為第三個訴求就是要比照癌症的登記我們希望可以更有數據可以掌握這個所謂的個案所以我們失智症過去癌症登記有掌握每一個確診的個案失智症目前就是流行病學的推估連這個確診者的程度分佈用了哪些長照服務其實都不精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
908.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
917.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
然後也不確實所以我們希望要建立全國失事證的登錄系統讓政策從推估數據走向精準的治理 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
920.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
947.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個部分我請那個市長謝謝委員那這部分其實我們也在朝這個方向努力那我們現在確實已經有一個失智症的一個管理系統那針對這個系統我們現在也其實剛剛有很多的委員也都用了啦有都有講了嘛然後就是說就是這個整合的不好然後很多數據也離啦啦所以這才是為什麼我們說應該要更精準的去推動我知道剛剛部長也有說會回去再精進吧是吧是 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
948.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
952.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
好那再來第4個要請這個法務部啊法務部內政部好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
964.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
989.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
來這個我想要說的事情這個訴求人就是要說失智症可能會被當成人頭賬戶那徵訊時的情緒不穩定也會被當成態度不佳那第一線的檢警都未必可以認得失智齁所以我們希望在司法辨識跟程序保障是不是可以到時候也要明文納入基本法請你們回去到時候討論的時候可以針對這個部分給立法機關一個建議好嗎可以齁OK |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
992.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
994.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好 那你可以講一下OK 因為要記錄嘛是 謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
997.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
1025.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
那最後就是我要再跟這個次長說一下這是難得的朝野共識其實除了三黨幾乎都有提除了國民黨民眾黨之外民進黨的林月琴召委她自己也提了一個基本法所以我們希望今天最後三個承諾就是說第一個希望獨立的失智症政策綱領你們應該要獨立出來來發一個給一個公告的這個月份 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
1026.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
1032.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
這個部分我想衛福部是可以馬上做的這部分你們可不可以6月底所以6月底會獨立出來嗎沒錯沒錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
1037.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
1043.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
會有一個實質證的獨立綱領3.0就是行動計畫3.0行動計畫3.0六月份六月底六月底之前會給好那六月底我們到時候再來追蹤那再來就是我們希望這個衛福部要支持立法然後把這個統籌層級拉到行政院剛剛的質詢過程中有發現跨部會就是會有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
1059.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
1073.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
包委員我必須還是要說明一下我們現在目前統籌層級就是行政院有行政院長但是有在法裡面有明確的規範說是有行政院長人家日本是首相出來統籌 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
1074.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
1087.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
我們怎麼會比日本還要不重視呢我相信我們應該是做得到的我們都非常非常重視所以希望重視就要有行動表現我們希望是至少由行政院長來做統籌最後我們希望到時候討論之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
1090.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
1106.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
這個如果行政院回去思考了一下可以的話儘速把你們的版本也送出來啊不然我想失智者海嘯也已經來了我們的超高齡化社會昨天大家講少子話今天其實我們台灣面臨的還有一個超高齡化社會的問題所以我們不能夠讓國家對於這35萬個其實是加年輕是38萬個家庭 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
1110.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
1125.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
的這個回應喔還停在這個不確定然後還有不夠不足夠的法律位階好我們希望的就是趕快剛剛至少你們有承諾獨立的綱領生要有個行政計劃3.0好好那謝謝好感謝委員謝謝謝謝六委員六委想委員的諮詢現在請 |