| IVOD_ID |
169692 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169692 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-28 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-5-15-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
15 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-28T10:37:32+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-28T10:46:32+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:09:00 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/89665fc2cee9c36725f866397850b5315a53471ac56e363077815697e441d1b45a65960676c3fd835ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李柏毅 |
| 委員發言時間 |
10:37:32 - 10:46:32 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-28T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第5會期內政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於不當黨產處理委員會部分。二、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於客家委員會及所屬部分。三、審查115年度中央政府總預算案關於直轄市及縣市政府一般性補助款客家委員會及所屬部分。四、審查客家委員會函送財團法人客家公共傳播基金會115年度預算書案。【詢答及處理，所列預算提案於115年5月22日(星期五)中午12時截止收件。】
【5月27日、28日兩天一次會】） |
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還有請林主委我們請林主委剛話還沒有講完,讓你講完所以其實在今年三月的時候,剛開始排這個會期的議程的時候其實第一個就想找你來 |
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| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
那會想要找你來的原因是3月11號這個國民黨中央黨部的這個黨產的判決確定那這個確定呢當時我們都還沒有收到這個相關的這些判決書的內容嘛所以沒有辦法在這邊讓你當時沒有辦法讓你說明的很清楚我想今天社會大眾也很好奇齁你剛剛對其他委員其實也有說明的清楚啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
45.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
60.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
判決書是因為對於這個金額還有對當初這個對象還有這個對價的內容是相關的但是黨產會存在的目的以及黨產條例存在的目的其實是為了 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
61.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
77.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
當時的時空背景中國國民黨怎麼樣把台灣當時的包含土地包含這些建物等等的變成自己的黨產甚至轉售甚至轉給其他的這些附隨組織等等的那所以黨場會今天才有存在的必要好 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
79.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
97.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
這一些一一列館清查出來,然後有一些訴訟之後,你現在能拍拍屁股走人嗎?我還是希望你忍辱負重的把這一些事情都釐清啊我支持你當初說的,你希望有一天黨產會你要把它結束掉是因為會把這些國家當時被佔 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
100.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
108.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
被侵占的這些財產一一做一個整理跟說明跟社會大眾說明清楚來 主委讓你說明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
109.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
136.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我們當然是希望說終結黨產會的前提是所有不當取得的財產只要我們清查得到的在法治的方式之下我們能夠取回這樣給社會大眾一個好的示範未來執政的人不可以隨隨便便把國家的財物納為己有納為己用其實這是真正的目的但是法院在審理的過程裡面譬如說他審一個婦聯會是否負責組織他審了五年 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
139.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
153.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
救國團是不是國民黨的負稅組織他省了四年像這樣的比比皆是而且他在剛開始的時候又想辦法去釋憲這樣又拖了兩三年所以拖延其實不是我們願意我也不希望把時間耗在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
154.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
169.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
但是我們有這個責任把這個真相告訴大家譬如說有的案子拖了那麼多年之後還判敗訴敗訴理由是什麼我剛才跟黃婕委員說明的過程裡面詳細要花兩分鐘把它講清楚因為法院用了一個黨產條例的不當學財產定義理論沒有的條件 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
172.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
188.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
來判我敗訴這個當然非常不服氣啊但是還是法院我們要尊重但是我必須要藉這個機會也跟社會大眾報告也跟我們報告跟國會來報告就是說我們不希望說原來不當取得財產有分兩類一種可以一種要還一種不要還 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
190.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
211.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
當初你告訴的對象還是中國國民黨的時候這個可能拿得回來那如果當初告訴的對象他已經轉給其他的單位或賣給其他單位的時候有可能就拿不回來因為過去從事司法改革我們很希望法院能夠得到這個信賴你要舉證這個現金到底價值多少錢法院對這個就沒有辦法讓你舉證沒有辦法同意所以才敗訴對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
212.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
230.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
就是說他還有很多特權的方式不是只有說沒有錢就拿走或者是說買很便宜的價錢就像黨部那個過程就是占了嘛占了然後又借承諾要還又不還然後最後稀釐乎乎租然後稀釐乎乎買了買了之後蓋成新聞之後賣掉賺錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
232.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
252.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
那這樣子不能要求他拿回來嗎法院就是判說到底賺了多少錢法院說當初他有買所以這個不是不當取得財產你不能把他取回這是我覺得這個是有點疑惑性但是要把這些事情但是我們還是要堅持下去啊對好 謝謝 謝謝主委來 請谷主委請谷主委召委 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
259.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
275.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
謝謝谷主委,我很仔細的聽了你今年口頭的報告裡面包含幾個預算我非常關心包含第二項裡面客家、客庄區域發展、生活環境營造計畫、客家綠色產業永創 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
284.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
291.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
發展計畫打造永續共好地方創生計畫裡面比去年度的預算減列6億4877萬約54%的原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
300.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
321.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
要主要財化法的關係財化法所以原本補助地方可能變成地方要自籌那我請問主委地方會不會支持地方的客委會讓他們有提高這個我舉例比如說台北市政府他突然多拿了400多億他第一件事情去補助營養午餐 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
323.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
343.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那會不會有可能是排擠掉這個可能做這些地方創新的這些預算我們簡列那麼多那地方政府的客戶會有沒有辦法依這個比例拿到地方政府的預算童昭的報告就我所了解其實沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
344.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
362.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
地方的客家單位沒有增加預算對所以財源下去了我們不得不減少了財務法的關係我們不得不減少了但是地方對於推動客家這個環境再造的部分其實是沒有辦法增加的這是第一點第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
363.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
378.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
語言方面我們去年度比我們今年度編列五億一千七百七十萬比去年度減列一億七千九百五十八萬減列百分之二十五一樣的道理我也請問你主委請問這是怎麼回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
382.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
404.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
也是裁劃法的關係那一樣也是在補助地方政府那地方政府的這個客委會有沒有辦法跟地方政府爭取到一樣比例的補助的預算土民院報告就我所知道也是沒有所以很憂心語言的附贈會少了很大的力道 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
405.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
412.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
所以我們非常遺憾,那也希望柯爾會再跟行政院爭取這個可能接下來明年度就有110 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
414.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
427.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
接下來明年度的116年度的預算可能再過幾個月也要進來了希望課委會這邊可以跟行政院爭取到多一點預算你今年度從去年度的40億變成35億9不到36億一共少了快4億多的預算少了5億8的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
438.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
453.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
我們知道這大多數是補助地方政府的但是地方政府的客委會他並拿不到地方政府的同額的這些補助啦所以相對對客家文化、客家語言還有客家鄉親等等是剝削的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
454.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
481.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
那我覺得這件事情還是要跟全國民眾來說清楚另外大家都提出的這個博工造戶站的申請條件我這邊有一個具體的建議就是市區六都很多的這個像我們都是散居的客家鄉親我的選區啊左營就非常多18%的比例他有非常非常多的但是我們沒有辦個博工造戶站我覺得博工造戶站的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
484.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
509.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
規定啦就是說你這個社區人口要百分之三十然後這個服務的長輩要有二分之一是說客語那我覺得是不是試試看能不能調降之外呢我會建議一個推動有特色的都會區的博工造戶站這個是可以適行的比如說我這個造服員他是有這個客語認證的資格的那我們是不是可以左語來 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
510.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
536.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
加給他因為這個地方他可能就會有少數的這些客家長輩他來到這裡就覺得很親切那這裡是一個很有特色的這個博工造戶站那博工造戶站的預算我們等一下在省列的時候我們也會給予高度的支持之外呢那也希望諸位把接下來不能做到的事情等一下也可以因為預算減少那可能會少做的事情等一下有清楚的來表達好感謝李議員好謝謝 |