| IVOD_ID |
16966 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16966 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-20 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-20T12:21:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-20T15:09:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:47:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dd54f5580a36c7ffd6eedfc15ba260295a0aa126c40303dc2798c44e856665f25d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
2.程被提名人明修-立法院第11屆第4會期交通、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函送國家通訊傳播委員會委員提名名單，蔣榮先為委員並為主任委員，程明修為委員並為副主任委員，黃葳威及羅慧雯均為委員，請同意案。
【10月20日（星期一）依序分別審查蔣被提名人榮先、程被提名人明修；10月22日（星期三）依序分別審查黃被提名人葳威、羅被提名人慧雯。】
【10月20日及22日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
12:21:30 - 15:09:00 |
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4153.621 |
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好 現在繼續開會要進行被提名人陳明修先生之說明與答詢現在請被提名人陳明修先生說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
4169.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
4178.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
主席 各位委員 秘書長 各位女士先生大家午安我是陳明修 目前服務於東吳大學法學院擔任教職 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
4179.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
4200.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主要講述憲法跟行政法相關的科目研究所以經濟公法的專題研究為主要的重心主要研究為經濟管制法跟公司協力還有行政合作法制目前同時也擔任三級獨立機關核能安全委員會的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
4201.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
4218.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
並且參加許多中央跟地方政府的溯源救濟還有法規審議的工作那麼也很慶幸在2007年到2010年曾經擔任考試院工人員保障及培訓委員會專任委員的政務工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
4220.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
4241.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
那麼在2020年也獲司法院選任擔任懲戒法院職務法庭的第一屆的參審員實際參與法官在懲戒法庭職務法庭的司法審判工作不論在教學學術或者參與的政府跟司法工作都有極高的自主獨立性的特質 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
4242.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
4264.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那今天非常的榮幸能有機會接受大院的審查並期盼能在未來的工作上於獨立機關中繼續貢獻自己在法律上的經驗以及專業我出生在嘉義一個單純的公教人員家庭家父幼年來台後來擔任國小的教職 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
4265.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
4285.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
我在嘉義完成高中的學業在大學畢業東吳大學法律系後來進入到中興法商完成了碩士學位並且進入博士課程後來就轉赴德國先後取得了比較法碩士以及法學博士的學位 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
4286.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
4309.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那麼我在德國的博士論文研究的主題主要涉及到行政法上最核心的管制議題就是許可制跟特許制它所涉及到管制模型當中牽扯的基本權利的保障還有管制機關權限行使的界限等等的問題那在這個研究的基礎上後來也開展我自己在憲法基本權理論 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
4311.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
4334.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
以及經濟公法上管制理論的研究在經濟法上的管制理論從典型的強制規制到具有自主規制成分的規制到國家規制型的自我規制以至於純粹的私人的自我規制他所呈現出來各位目前所看到的法律他律自律的管制光譜 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
4335.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
4358.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
在廣電媒體跟網路領域當中也更加看到他論述的實用性特別是目前我們關於網際網路當中廣泛被運用的產業自主規制模式更是可見其重要性近20年前國家通訊傳播委員會設立之初是台灣獨立機關開始運作的嘗試時期 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
4361.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
4387.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
許多當時獨立機關的組織運作以及監督問題都有相當多的內外在挑戰而我也有幸在機關設立初期就以法律的專業參與了NCC訴願審議委員會擔任訴願審議的法律救濟工作對於國家通訊傳播委員會起步支出所面臨到的法治環境的挑戰身歷其境 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
4389.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
4407.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
如今隨著數位匯流時代的來臨傳統的電信廣播電視界線已日漸模糊通訊與媒體產業融合迅速產生許多新的服務型態對於通傳會來說無疑是一個更深層的監理體制的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
4408.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
4423.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
我認為通常會在數位匯流時代他會面臨到幾個過去存在以及未來的關鍵挑戰我也期許未來可以有機會特別是在法治面向上可以有參與的機會 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
4425.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
4445.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那首先我們可能面對到的最嚴厲的挑戰是既有管制法律的這個目前的規制所受到的一些外在的質疑特別是在黨政軍條款的裁罰對象上一直受到挑戰那麼在審照的程序上還有違規裁罰上雖然 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
4447.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
4457.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
NCC他有在管制上的裁量的蠻大的空間但是法律明確性的要求也受到外界的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
4458.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
4481.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
另外在廣播電視法跟衛星廣播電視法目前規範所呈現出來的分歧現象也可能有需要做一致性處理的必要性另外有限電視業者在目前所遇到的嚴苛的管制以及面臨到產業生態的挑戰可能在管制的密度上也有鬆綁的一些呼聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
4483.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
4511.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
既有的傳統的法規目前可能已經沒有辦法涵蓋新型態的服務類型特別是針對跨平臺業者在既有的管制規範上面可能會出現一些管制的漏洞那麼會導致所謂的平臺無擇內容無控的現象因此我可以理解外界對於整併目前的電信傳播網路的新型態的規制的期待日益增高 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
4512.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
4524.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那麼這裡的管制遇到的一些困境大家也都可以理解涉及到的是這個平台治理的邊界的模糊因為大部分的跨國平台他都不見得在台灣有弱點 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
4526.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
4542.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
導致我們在執法上面的困難那目前通常會擔任otttv的主政機關也逐步的在嘗試建構網際網路視聽服務的相關法制的建設那麼這裡面所遇到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
4544.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
4560.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
外界的這些挑戰或者是外界的這些建議目前還沒有辦法完成形成一個有共識的內容不過我想這個部分也會是未來我們要精進挑戰的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
4561.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
4587.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那另外呢在面對到氣候變遷資訊安全還有基礎關鍵基礎韌性的挑戰上面呢各位可以從最近的風災看得到有關基地台的架設以及對於高架空線設施抗風係數的這樣的一個增強呢對於我們的通信韌性的提升呢可能也是未來我們努力的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
4588.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
4609.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
另外有關於重要的通訊基礎建設會受到攻擊癱瘓影響國安的問題意識也慢慢的增強因此在確保落實電信事業資通安全管理辦法的執行我想也是會以更重要的一個挑戰面對到AI技術應用的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
4610.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
4635.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
為了鼓勵業者創新因此通常會也擬定了AI應用指引的治癒規範鼓勵業者跟工學會制定內部的規範另外NCC在賭詐的任務上應該也會持續統籌賭詐電信服務的任務持續推動防度境外詐騙來化攔阻惡意簡訊等措施來 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
4640.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
4665.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
阻擋這些所謂的網路詐欺的犯罪當然在建立媒體識讀的教育上面NCC應該也有相當重要的角色可以扮演本人期許未來有機會在這份廣受國人與社會期待的工作上在完善法規環境提升透明度跟公共參與的機制上致力建立更符合現代需求的法治基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
4666.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
4695.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
提升社會對國家通訊傳播委員會的信任讓NCC成為全民的NCC力求在快速變遷的環境中守護民主的價值與言論自由 以上謝謝大家被提名人陳明修說明完畢現在請登記第一位本院委員吳佩奕委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
4704.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
4709.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
感謝主席 我有請被提名人陳明修博士請被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
4719.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
4744.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
陳博士好 這個你剛剛提到一句話我覺得相當認同NCC要做全民的NCC那雖然您現在是被提名尚未上任但是我就就最近國人也非常關心的一件事是就發生在我們周遭台北車站所發生的治安事件所引發的媒體事件來跟您請教討論就是呢上一週在台北車站那發生了很不幸 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
4745.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
4764.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
性侵案件那麼更不幸的是隨即我們看到竟然我們國內有媒體取得民眾拍攝的這個性侵過程的影像之後把它放到報導當中在全國國人可以看到電視台上面放送 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
4766.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
4781.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
居國嘩然那我請教陳博士根據我們現在既有的法規這個目前對於媒體報導裡面使用性侵害的過程的這個影像有沒有所規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
4783.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
4801.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
謝謝委員的指教目前我們至少例如在衛星廣播電視法的27條連結到他的裁判53條條款當中呢應該有相當明確的一些規範在我們的現行法當中可以運用是 我們現行衛星廣播電視法27條就是呢 針對國內的這些電視放送的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
4805.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
4834.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
不得有下列情形之一這四款任一款發生都是禁止的第一項違反法律規定我們性侵害犯罪防治法就有規定有關於被害人我們要保護他資訊不得揭露所以這第一條其實就已經有法律在禁止這樣的行為第二條妨礙兒童或少年身心健康這一個新聞報導是任何一個年齡層都有機會可能會看到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
4834.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
4851.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
所以他潛在的就是有危害兒少身心健康的風險存在而且確實發生第三款妨害公共秩序或善良風俗我想這也不需要多加的說明所以呢據我所知我看到很多民眾說他們已經有上網向NCC檢舉希望NCC要來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
4854.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
4879.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
因為按照限期法規如果違反剛講這四款其中之一的話這個罰則博士能不能說明一下NCC可以處怎麼樣的罰則我印象當中在53條當中它有連結一些裁罰的條款其中當然有一些程序上面譬如說要令其限期改正的一些措施這個在既有的裁罰的程序當中應該都存在有規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
4880.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
4899.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
但是可能我們更關心的是要即時下架或者即時的除去這些新影像那就這個部分目前在慰光法當中我們不是主要這個要求移除的對 這是慰福部的 慰福部也有所作為即時下架當然重要 也已經下架但是呢 該法要法 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
4900.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
4918.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
才會得到這一個懲戒的效果如果按照現行法規 因為其實他罰則不一啦 如果列舉我剛剛講 如果是二三款的話最重是可以罰到200萬最輕20萬以上這是以法規層面來說但是實務上我們現在NCC有沒有辦法來處理這個違規檢舉案就你的了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
4922.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
4942.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
委員講的是我們現在的委員的結構現在的NCC現在的委員結構嗎沒錯 我們現行的狀況有沒有辦法召開審議委員會來審查審議這樣的檢舉案件目前我可能理解有些重要的這些裁罰案件可能沒有辦法馬上以 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
4945.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
4969.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
是因為我們現在NCC委員還沒補足除了門檻以外因為這是去年NCC對外所說的就是說去年NCC委員曾經做成一個決議就是因為我們現在委員除了人數以外很重要我們現在目前傳播專業的委員是從缺的所以呢去年NCC做了一個決議就是針對傳播所相關的違規處罰案件先暫停審議審理 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
4971.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
4988.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
但一樣我們接受民眾的檢舉案 檢舉澄清案可以收案 但是還沒有辦法召開會議所以我很希望我們NCC要做全民的NCC能夠讓它的功能能夠來實際執行才有用啊否則我們在這邊討論這麼多法律有規範 罰則有罰 但是沒辦法開會 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
4991.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
5008.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
沒辦法審議 民眾已經檢舉了你們可以收件 卻不能處理所以這個我要拜託立法院因為太多民眾一直打電話來我辦公室說我們是這個國家沒有法律了嗎竟然信心的這個影像可以這樣上傳到網路上不是下架就沒事 該罰要罰法規有規範 但我們卻沒辦法開會這非常大的遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
5011.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
5036.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
第二點要請教這個博士就是我們金鐘獎剛落幕其實大家很關心台灣本土電視節目內容的自治我們NCCC對於本土的這個本國的文化的保障在衛星廣播法裡面第八條也有所規定就是我們在電視台規劃節目的時候其實是有保障本國文化善盡社會責任這樣的義務存在的 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
5037.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
5061.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
NCC有什麼樣的作為可以來提升我們本土內容節目內容的自治呢我想NCC不只應該作為一個網路或者是媒體的監理機關對於目前您所提到的這些產業的扶持應該也是NCC積極應該作為的部分那這裡會面臨到一個蠻大的挑戰是 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
5063.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
5079.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
在目前有限電視業者所遇到的一些經營上面的困境我想這個連結起來觀察的話NC在對於製作本土節目的獎勵機制上我想應該可以有一些更多的提升的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
5080.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
5094.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好我也相當認同我認為NCC除了法律的監理之外我們也可以來鼓勵跟支持所以非常的期待希望未來新的NCC能夠一起來支持我們本土節目內容的製作謝謝梅婷銘人謝謝主席謝謝吳佩儀委員發言完畢現在請洪孟凱召委發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
5109.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
5112.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好 主席謝謝 麻煩請陳備提名人請備提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
5122.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
5139.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好 陳副主委 貝提名人 你好本席也很關心跟重視NCC要獨立行使機關但是很遺憾 其實最重要的還是行政部門提出來人選的時候是已經距離去年四位委員到期一年之久 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
5140.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
5167.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
去年7月31號到期的時候結果到新任這一屆的委員名單是今年的7月31號才提出來並且送來到立法院所以即便我們要審理過去這段時間沒有名單可以審理但關鍵還是來到因為院長講說有委員在做生涯規劃的考量等等的也因此有延檔那我想請教一下副主委被提名人什麼時候院長 院長有沒有跟您 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
5170.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
5185.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
徵詢過擔任委員這件事情謝謝委員行政院院長有跟我親自徵詢過什麼時候印象當中有兩次的時間第一次的時間應該是在去年的年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
5186.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
5208.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
去年年底就爭取了去年年底第一次有跟院長碰面不過第一次碰面時院長跟我談到的並不是一個具體的工作上面的問題而是想要跟我探討有關於這個有關通常會目前運作所衍生出來法律問題想要跟我 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
5209.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
5224.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
了解一些我的看法跟您就教好那第二次呢確定什麼時候提名你並且說副主委這樣子重責大任如果沒有記錯應該是在今年的5月5日5月5日是 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
5224.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
5239.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
奇怪 今天早上我們的主委被提名了一張5月5日不過重點在於是4月底院長就已經跟跟我們本院的委員在質詢的時候就有講過說已經幾乎確定名單了好 那不管 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
5239.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
5264.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
5月5日到7月31日中間將近三個月的時間副主委會不會覺得很好奇你5月5日答應院長說你願意承擔這個重責大任那為什麼過去這三個月行政院沒有把你們的名單交出來就這個部分我可能沒辦法回答不清楚 你也沒有去問是不是你的生涯規劃而造成院長沒有辦法送出名單 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
5266.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
5284.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
對我來講當然是你個人嗎我拖延的原因是你個人嗎我自己在教學上面的安排當然也會遇到一些影響但因為審查的期程沒有辦法確定所以這個所謂的影響並不是那麼的具體 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
5286.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
5299.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
所以不是你個人所以5月5號至少主委副主委確認了院長也公開的答詢講是說4月底可以送出名單但是5月沒有送 6月沒有送到7月31號才送出名單原因是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
5301.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
5325.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
這三個月NCC說有些委員會小組沒有辦法開會我們也很關心啊 我們也很焦慮啊我們也希望獨立行使機關的職權啊那為什麼行政院不提出來坊間講是說是要等大罷免啊副主委怎麼看我實在是沒辦法協助回答這樣的問題好 你也回答不出來 來 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
5328.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
5356.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
行政院院長要負最大責任如果說現在NCC有那麼多被卡關那麼多沒有辦法獨立行使職權提名的人負最大責任再來副主委提名人請教因為本席有看到您的這一個履歷裡面有特別提到說你也擔任過術院委員也擔任過NCC的國家賠償小組事件小組那其實國賠也好或說術院也好我相信你應該學有專精對不對不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
5357.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
5374.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
來 那站在法令跟比例原則的角度其實NCC在上一屆最大的一個爭議也讓全國人民滑爛甚至會認為是說NCC變張嘻嘻的主要原因就是因為它當時讓一個新聞台被撤銷並且沒有辦法換賬 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
5376.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
5402.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
而造成新聞台實質的關閉當時很多人就說這是已經違反了言論自由跟新聞自由我們知道廣電法採取借其換照制是為了保障公眾權利視聽眾的權利並且兼顧新聞自由跟新聞專業保障新聞自由跟行政審查媒體絕對不能畫上等號那我想請教以你的角度認為NCC當時的決議有符合廣電法跟衛星廣播電視法的規範嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
5406.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
5428.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
委員所垂詢的這個問題他在行政法院的判決當中基本上有呈現出兩個比較大的爭議那這個部分有包含對於這個程序上面的進行的問題你怎麼看如果說你是委員或是甚至你是副主委的話你會讓這樣子的一個事件發生嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
5431.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
5453.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
對於我一個學習行政法或研究行政程序法的學者來講一個行政決定的正當行政程序的鑒於是一個必要的條件所以那麼在這個案子當中因為我老實講我也沒有辦法直接看到目前的這個相關內部決定的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
5453.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
5472.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
但你認不認同我現在講說認不認同說這樣實質已經影響到新聞自由言論自由的一個展現我可以不同意你的話但我適時捍衛言論的自由可是在上一屆的NCC委員裡面居然發生了直接用換照的方式把一個新聞台直接撤照 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
5473.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
5500.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
你認同這樣的行為嗎依照法規監理機關他在換照的審查權限上有他應該要面對的媒體的言論自由或傳播自由但是他也需要顧慮到應保障的公共利益所以在這個公益跟私益的權衡當中機關的這個決定應該有他一定的應鑒於的正當行政程序同時 副主委不是只是拖時間講人話好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
5502.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
5504.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
持球对决可以吗回答本席问题可以吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
5505.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
5531.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我就是在回答委員的問題來我看一下因為現在法院也有做相關的一個這個審議那如果說假設現在這個新聞台他在做這個相關的這個訴願相關的一個行政法院的一個流程到最後真的判決有瑕疵處分違法那我們要怎麼面對你當過這個國賠你當過訴願小組的委員可能處理這案件如果到時候業者申請國賠的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
5533.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
5550.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
在一個法治國家裡面不管是機關或者是政府哪一個單位在法院的判決做成之後依法院判決而做成應有的相應的措施這是理所當然的那如果說現在看起來現在法院也已經判了這個業者已經26勝 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
5552.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
5578.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
NCC26B那有沒有人應該要負起相關的政治責任或是裁量責任在目前委員所提到的以換照案件為例我所理解還在法院的訴訟進行當中所以這個法院判決的結果出來之後如果會涉及到相關的問題這個依法應該要做如何的處理本來也就是法律規範的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
5580.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
5601.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
主委本席期待你講的跟你過去現在以及未來的言行都一致NCC是獨立行使公正的機關但最重要的是面子是別人給的臉是自己丟的這句話我期待每一個被提名的委員都要有信心跟有能力能夠讓國人看到NCC的專業謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
5605.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
5610.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
謝謝侯孟卡委員發言完畢現在請林國成委員發言好謝謝召委請我們陳提名人現在請阿貝提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
5638.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
5665.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
好 那個陳備提名人我想一向本黨對於任何事情是理性務實可寫沒有根據的我們也不會問當然因為這個NCC的提名當然雖然卓院長抱歉了好幾次騙台灣人民好幾次那總是已經塵埃漏電也提名 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
5666.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
5690.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
大家可以看得出來我們還是很迅速的排審所以我在這裡最近我看到一篇報導也就是說這次是行政院有提一個國民黨籍我很冒昧請教你這次你被提名到底是國民黨推薦 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
5691.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
5715.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
或者他們自己找你這點是不是請回答謝謝委員的提問應該是願意就直接徵詢沒有經過國民黨推薦我自己從工作以來基本上沒有參與任何的政黨的實際的運作對啦 所以你是有國民黨籍沒有交黨會 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
5719.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
5735.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
目前的狀況是這是國民黨選黨主席你有沒有選沒有那就失聯黨員但是我要在這裡拜託我們行政院張秘書長在這裡你知不知道現在媒體的亂象 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
5736.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
5752.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
把你寫得好像是中國國民黨推薦結果我們在審查的時候我看你資料我看你資料 也是真的是這樣所以我是覺得這樣不能用議論的煙幕彈來做闖關要實際對於NCC有幫助的專長 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
5759.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
5777.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
這個才是正確的所以我特別為什麼要問你這個黨籍的問題因為先南大坡包括很多媒體在用議論的煙幕彈真的有時候我也產生一點錯覺所以我在希望我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
5780.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
5793.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
被提名的人這個部分我要特別跟你建議一下沒有就沒有 有就有但是事實上你也沒有經過國民黨來提名不要產生誤解其實第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
5794.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
5814.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
我是特別要請教你因為你寫法例當然到NCC因為他要監督還有要管理法例當然有必要可是這個法例人當主委副主委我說實在的我們對他是沒有信心的 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
5815.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
5838.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
他的法律來到NCC委員會的時候就走樣你知道嗎那我也看到你的資歷你參加過很多人民請願的訴願委員會那這都是好事這也都是對於這整個有幫助但是我要特別提醒我們陳備提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
5839.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
5867.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
學法律是只有一個公平跟正義跟依法有據所以不要像以前的主委啊以前的委員啊歐亞變白這個就不好 世衛不分不好所以我還是要提醒你啦學法律要有法律尊嚴的這種骨氣所以也不要進了NCC以後就馬上法律變成綠華這樣就不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
5868.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
5891.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那另外一個現在就是有一個亂象NCC這幾年來對於我們這些新聞媒體假信息患難還有假新聞 新聞的亂象請問護足違背提名人你如何加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
5892.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
5898.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
NCC如何加強這個管理的理想 請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
5900.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
5927.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
謝謝委員的指教有關於這樣的社會的亂象或者是訊息的亂象目前我們的監理的機制確實存在有比較大的困難主要是面對沒有辦法納管的一些平台因此在管制的力道上面確實是由委員所沒有納管沒有納管有沒有納管的這些法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
5929.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
5936.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
可以去做修正我想立法院一定會支持我現在就講就現在的亂象 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
5937.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
5958.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
假新聞一大堆然後啊這個新聞的亂象一大堆這些東西以現在本來NCC要做的但是NCC都沒有做所以我只要你通過了以後你就變成副主委我要問你你如何去杜解這些或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
5960.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
5980.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
怎麼樣去做我要你去做這個回答好不好是我們現在目前的主要的做法還是透過這個媒體的治癒的形式來進行比較重要的一個規管那透過監理機關對於這個整個治癒機制的運作的後段的這個監理呢也可以有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
5981.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
6007.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
促進媒體自律的這樣的一個可能性好啦 那個陳佩提米人你如果要這樣講 我跟你講喔我這很明確告訴你 我會不同意你的任命案 我坦白跟你講第一個 現在很只要是亂象嘛但是那是以前的委員會嘛你新來的委員會 你一定有新的做法嘛我要的是你這個答案 那沒有關係啦我也不要逼你啦 你也不敢講 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
6008.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
6033.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
對不對好最後一個我想請教你現在檢舉案件因為你做過很多單位的溯源委員會那溯源委員會當然就是除了公正以外是站在老百姓的立場嘛所以我請教現在NCC有已經有500件到600件的檢舉案件到現在為止喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
6034.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
6042.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
沒有開罰過一件因為NCC都怕電視台啊尤其綠色的電視台你們更怕啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
6043.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
6070.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
所以這個部分我要提醒你這個是你的課程要去做改革這個部分一定要用一點心所以在這裡我要期勉我們這個副主委的提名人在這個部分是亂象如何你們進去以後撥亂反正回歸正軌這才是NCC的副主委應有的作為好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
6072.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
6077.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
好謝謝林國成委員發言完畢現在請羅廷偉委員發言謝謝主席有請陳備題名人請備題名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
6100.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
6118.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
好陳貝提名人你好我想跟你研究幾個問題就教一下您長期研究行政法對於熟悉政府決策整個法制的程序想請問你從行政法角度來看NCC的獨立怎麼界定 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
6119.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
6143.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
NCC的獨立可以透過組織的獨立來首先獲得它的正當性包含它的提名的這個委員的人選的結構以及政黨的比例等等的組織上面的正當性來確認它的獨立性這是從組織的面向上獲得確保那您認為過去有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
6145.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
6166.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
過去在剛剛你所提的就是政黨的比例等等你覺得過去有嗎過去從專業以及他的這個政黨比例的角度來看的話是我認為在形式上並沒有太大的疑問沒有太大的疑問好 謝謝您的回答那假設未來在某個重大的評普分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
6167.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
6180.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
媒體換照平台監管的議題上行政院有其政策方向而NCC的判斷不同你認為應如何在行政一體的原則與機關獨立行使職權取得平衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
6182.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
6207.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
委員所垂詢的行政議題應該不包含所謂的個案的委員會的判斷但是在廣泛的人事的決定權限上面根據大法官的解釋行政院作為獨立機關的上一機關它應有一定的人事權限但是在個案的決定上面應該沒有涉入的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
6208.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
6231.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
所以你可以很具體的回答你絕對不會受任何的政治干涉可以嗎跟委員報告我從開始從事教學跟在政務部門服務基本上所擔任的工作都具有相當的不管是學術的獨立性或者是資源行使的獨立性這一點我自己是有蠻大的自信 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
6232.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
6260.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
好 謝謝那你的回答我想大家都看在眼裡那我想另外再請問一下現在媒體生態變得比較複雜那我們都可以看到哪怕是社群平台網路平台演算法決定我們看到什麼假訊息又滿天飛你認為NCC在這些問題當中扮演著要規範還是協調你比較傾向是產業自律政府共管還是立法強化約束 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
6262.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
6288.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
這裡會涉及到對於內容的管制那如果剛剛一開始的說明裡在管制的模式上面比較弱勢的自我規制業者的單純的業者自律可能在強度上有一些欠缺但是如果有可能的話提升到業者的功率跟業者功率指的是整個社群體的工會加入與 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
6289.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
6317.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
行政機關公司的合作質疑的這種模式也許是一種管制的思考是管制的思考但是你認為這樣子就可以有效的去防範嗎我不知道如果採這樣的方式是不是確實是有效但是在這個管制的模型的思維上面如果以目前單純的仰賴業者的自我管制在管制的力道上面以及他的實效性有所欠缺的話提升他的管制密度也許這是一種可以考慮的 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
6318.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
6346.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我们就拿演算法来说好了不管社群平台网路的相关平台的一个机制演算法就像是传统媒体我们所说的就是读者或者是观众喜欢看什么就给予那你认为演算法的一个机制我们就拿所有的观点来说好了每一个读者或者是网路的使用者透过演算法不断的给予他喜爱的议题 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
6346.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
6361 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
背後有什麼我們可以值得反思的你覺得這個機制有沒有問題你覺得這個機制演算法就是特定喜好給予供給不斷的給予供給你覺得對於這後面有沒有我們應該反思檢討的 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
6362.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
6385.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我想他在整個市場的結構上面個人的消費行為甚至於大到整個民主的共識的形塑多元價值的形成他可能都會產生蠻大的挑戰可不可以更具體的講演算法所帶來讀者會有什麼樣的一個觀點上的變化您認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
6388.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
6411.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我的認知可能是他的自我決定的空間會遭受到比較大的壓縮對 所以我們要講就是說我們就拿演算法對於孩童來說好了孩童不斷的投其所好他永遠就只看到他這個框架所得到的一些相關網路資訊甚至是我們拿特定的喜愛 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
6412.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
6441.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
更有可能是特定的政黨偏好沒有多元的觀點接收更多元的一些資訊對於這樣子的一個單一資訊提供雖然是投其所好但是卻讓所有的讀者或者是相關的使用者缺少了更多元的反思我想這個部分在NCC保障媒體多元維護言論自由又要防止假訊息的擴散方面你認為有沒有什麼具體的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
6445.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
6461.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
目前如同前面跟委员的说明目前如果以单纯的仰赖业者的自律规范看起来这个形式可能会有一些不足对啊所以我们有没有什么方案吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
6462.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
6482.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
我剛有提到以公司的這種合作質疑可能是一個可行的方式所以我說看起來你們應該不可能會去做一個所謂的規範者那你們又要做一個協調者嗎那政府要共管還是立法強化我想NCC作為一個監管機關它作為一個法律秩序的一個設計的工作是絕對責無旁貸的 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
6484.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
6512.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
但是我們沒有看到具體的行為我想不管是過往的NCC或者是未來的NCC我們都希望它在任內中能夠推動一項改革能夠讓大家有感NCC新的委員有新的氣象甚至新官上任三把火讓這一把火能夠讓大家看到我想那你可不可以說你任內如果你擔任這樣的職務你有沒有什麼最想改革的一個方案最想做什麼比如說能夠建立更透明的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
6513.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
6539.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
更新舊法推動治理平台還能夠讓更讓我們能夠更清楚的了解我們要投下這一票你可以帶來什麼樣讓張CC變成NCC我想在網路治理的這個部分剛剛有提到過有一些常識性的立法目前因為沒有共識但是就我自己而言我希望能夠在這個監理的法制的建立上面有所突破 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
6540.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
6560.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
我想我們都希望有所突破啦光我早上在問講被提名人我就有提到有關於AI的相關內容能夠主動的研議相關的AI內容透明標示制度讓民眾知道不管是這段新聞畫面照片它是AI的或者是人寫出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
6561.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
6585.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我想這個部分就是我們在探討當中能夠產生出更具體的方案讓看到的全國的國人能夠知道我們的對談是有更具體的一個方案讓他們覺得這樣的人擔任這個職位是我們更放心的我想最後想請問你有沒有什麼方案能夠促進偏鄉原住民地區通訊基礎的一個設施建設讓數位落差能夠縮小 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
6587.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
6614.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
目前我們所看到的這個網路的普及的狀態呢過往大概目前大概只有到69%那在這個有關於這個頻寬頻的普及率大概到達86%我如果印象沒有錯的話大概是這個數字所以我們有蠻大的這個調整的空間蠻大的進步空間所以我希望這些議題我們提出來你好好的檢討讓我們能夠被你說服謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
6617.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
6635.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
好謝謝羅廷偉委員發言完畢現在請廖先祥委員發言好謝謝主席麻煩邀請我們陳貝提名人請貝提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
6646.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
6671.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
好 謝謝其實在早上在這邊跟這個蔣提名人大概溝通的時候大概有提在每個被提名人我大概都問類似的問題所以如果說有做準備的話應該是非常輕鬆那但是因為您比較特別您是今天四位就是禮拜一跟禮拜三這四位被提名人唯一裡面有提到黨籍的部分您上面是寫您是國民黨想確認一下您現在還有中國國民黨黨籍嗎如果委員給我時間的話我可以說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
6676.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
6699.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
因為我在剛剛在說明時有提到了2007年我有擔任過政務人員那所以在2007年那個時期在相關的資訊的提供上面呢我就把過去曾經加入政黨的這個訊息填住在上面所以曾經加入過非常早了所以現在沒有黨籍嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
6702.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
6721.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這一點我沒有辦法從我的角度回答應該從政黨角度來講從政黨角度所以你也不確定現在還有沒有中國國民黨黨籍那一切還是要看中國國民黨那一邊他們怎麼認定中間因為有搬遷所以很多訊息也都中斷所以最近也沒有繳黨費應該沒有了那你也沒有終身黨員的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
6722.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
6738.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
應該沒有 沒有嗎 那就我的理解啦 就我的理解應該是目前應該是無黨籍身份啦 因為國民黨照規定的話照規定的話應該是每年都要交黨費啦 那這部分可能我覺得可以再再查清楚一下 如果說在相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
6740.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
6763.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
資料的正確性我覺得可以再更嚴謹一點那接下來就是討論到政體就是我們NCC這幾年就是社會會比較廣泛的討論就是對於新聞媒體監管的獨立性大家有許多的質疑是不是被執政黨所高度的影響所以說我也是針對這部分來跟您討論第一個就是說大家在西方說新聞媒體是第四權對不對我們當然中華民國是五權 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
6766.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
6788.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
但是習慣上大家還是講第四權嘛那你對第四權的一個理解是怎麼樣我認為他作為既有政治權力以外的這樣的所謂第四權他具有相當強的對政府職能的監督的工作同時他可以協助人民的政治意識的形成 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
6789.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
6799.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
所以一個很重要的點您認為是第四權為什麼會被叫做第四權是因為大家期待他來監督政府那接下來是您對於第四權的一個期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
6801.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
6821.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
我期待他在新聞的報導上面他能夠有真實的查證提供人民正確的資訊的內容同時他對於政府能夠進行有效而非理性的這種監督形式好所以就是包括了媒體的自律自律再加上監督這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
6821.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
6845.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我想媒體的自律是它作為監督權力的前提非常重要嗎好 那我想每個媒體都會有所謂的政黨色彩不只台灣啦 西方媒體現在也都是非常普遍的情況人有立場很正常那一個新聞媒體有立場現在看好像也滿正常的啦但是重點有沒有辦法做到剛剛您講的自律這一點我覺得是大家對於新聞媒體的一個期待啦那 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
6846.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
6863.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
看看您這邊願不願意對我們國內的現在的媒體生態來給一些評論無論是如果說您願意的話對可能各個不同光譜的新聞媒體的一個評論或者是總的概括性的一個評論我不曉得您可以您敢對個別媒體評論嗎還是要概括性的一個評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
6865.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
6891.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我想我不太適合對個別媒體概括性的一個評論現在國內的一個媒體的生態國內的媒體的生態其實跟很多的民主國家都有這樣的類似性就是他的政治意識明確的表現在這個媒體之上那這個也不是一個完全意外的事情所以我們對很多的媒體會稱他為右派媒體左派的媒體這個也是理所當然的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
6892.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
6903.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
但是即使有這樣的一個所謂的光譜的呈現在新聞的提供在資訊的提供上面他應該保持的中立性是不能因此而受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
6904.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
6924.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
是OK自律以及中立性是我們是您現在對我們國內媒體生媒體生態的一個期許是好那謝謝那最後兩個問題第一個是就牽扯到我們比較時事了那針對於中天電視台那換照的一個爭議您認為是否有政治力的干預 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
6927.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
6956.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
您自己的感覺我沒有辦法用這種簡略的方式來評論這樣的問題我是一個法律工作者我是一個法律工作者我只能夠從在這個案件所呈現出來的法院的判決爭議當中去找到他可能在事實的認定事實審部分的爭執以及法律上面的沒關係那針對這個事件您有一個什麼樣子的一個初步的一個簡單的想法重點性的來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
6957.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
6983.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
我認為行政機關在這邊運用它比較寬泛的一個裁量或者是所謂的管制裁量的這個權限的行使那麼在正當行政程序的鑒於上面呢有人對於這個正當程序的這個密度的高低可能有不同的想法是那如果說您這是在您NCC委員任內好的一個換照的事件您認為您在裡面會有不一樣的聲音嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
6984.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
7003.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
我不會說這是一個不一樣的聲音但是做一個法律工作者在做成任何一個重大的涉及到廣電媒體的決定的事件上面他應該建立的正當的行政程序以及透明化的要求我認為應該是最高的您認為應該還有更高的一個標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
7005.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
7024.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我不曉得怎麼去形容更高的標準對你自己來說我認為它應該是一個管事上面的一個最高的一個標準來處理這樣的一個事件好 那另外一個最後一題就是有關靜電室的一個設立的過程應該也是一個非常廣泛的社會的議題那你認為在過程中是否你有感受到有沒有政治力的干預 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
7025.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
7042.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我個人對這個事件沒有那麼清楚了解他們的深色過程裡面所提供的這些文件但是從媒體的報導看起來是有一些外在正反不同的想法所以不太敢表達您的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
7043.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
7055.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
因為我沒有在充足的資訊的情況之下我也不適合代替我想您未來是NCC委員你也會遇到可能有可能如果說被提名通過的話你也會是裡面的委員那我想社會中 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
7056.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
7082.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
近電視發生的事情或許未來也會一樣在您的審查過程當中也會遇到我覺得您對過去的事情應該也要多一些去了解然後知道說社會對這件事情爭議的爭點點在哪裡是社會的誤解還是其中過程當中真的是有什麼為失或是不應當的地方好不好 以上謝謝謝謝主席謝謝廖先祥委員發言完畢現在請魯明哲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
7094.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
7100.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好 謝謝主席有請我們陳副主委貝廷銘人請貝廷銘人好 謝謝因為應該是第一次見面是 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
7111.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
7126.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那我特別有看到您的這次報告的一個包括學經理你過去的一個坦白講在各政府一個機關擔任了很多不管是行政法方面甚至評審委員那這個部分特別看到你是行政法的一個權威學者 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
7127.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
7150.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
我真的覺得蠻開心的但是這種開心是一則喜一則以憂啊因為我們過去我個人才有三年多的時間有幸啊跟另外一位行政法的權威學者在NCC啊NCC啊這個很多的事情啊說真真草草或者鬧的當年NCC啊當時陳耀祥主委那我也覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
7151.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
7176.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
同樣是行政法的一個權威學者本來就是依法行政嘛很多東西本來就是依法行政但是我發覺有幾個問題第一個是你覺得在NCC作為這個不管是傳播廣播媒體甚至這個電信相關的一個部分對於整個媒體的這個環境在這幾年NCC最高主管機關獨立機關你覺得營造的整體的一個環境你滿不滿意 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
7181.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
7190.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
你作為一個你還沒有不是一般的民眾你是教授陳教授你覺得整個看到這樣的一個媒體環境你滿意嗎每個人的滿意值可能不太一樣對用你的標準我認為監理機關在這邊他會面臨到相當多的監理的困境這是確實存在著 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
7207.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
7232.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
好 你這話說得滿實在的滿實在的這個部分確實上有很多的一個困境但是我想請教一下那您又是什麼樣的一個機緣那我們知道像您的學經歷真的是像千里馬那博樂是誰是誰引薦有這樣的一個機緣來擔任我們NCC的副主委的提名人這個是誰引薦的 機緣在哪裡能不能說一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
7236.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
7263.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
這個我印象裡面是年底的時候就行政院這邊直接有同仁聯繫我但我中間這個環節我確實不太了解就行政院聯絡你但我在這邊直接跟你建議如果真的經過了這樣的一個這個審查的過程投票的過程那我真是覺得因為過去我覺得所謂的獨立機關不獨立最主要很多都是這種人脈 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
7264.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
7287.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
伯樂恩人這種的一個觀念在裡面因為你沒辦法你沒辦法直接說我專家學者我自己就跳進來變一個獨立機關你會有很多人引薦你會有很多的包括你的伯樂那我是在這裡真的跟你建議我不知道你同不同意啦不管是引薦你的伯樂也好或者說你的這個所謂恩人也好那但是你擔任 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
7288.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
7306.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
如果擔任這個機關副主委是一個獨立的一個機關你覺得你未來會不會針對這些幫過或者引薦的人他對你的影響你覺得你能夠去避免他對你NCC專業上面的影響嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
7307.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
7335.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
謝謝委員的指教在我被徵詢同時同意擔任這樣的獨立機關的工作時這個問題已經不是問題我認為擔任獨立機關的委員他的先決條件就是他自身必須要保持在事務決定上面的獨立性所以這點也請委員放心好 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
7336.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
7359.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
但我其實不太放心不太放心的原因是因為我們經歷之前的NCC換屆有小換屆那整個過程中確實我們覺得有獨立專業的但確實很多的事情也真的被一雙隱形的手在影響但到底它影響從哪些管道那這個部分我們是真的是一個期許那接下來的一個部分我想請教 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
7363.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
7386.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
這個你剛剛特別說啦對於一個案子不管是中天的案子今天是案子你要做一個怎麼樣的一個說明不夠精準還是盡量依法嘛那事實上在今年的3月6號我們最高行政法院針對112年度上次419號判決419判決之後我看你給各黨的回應你大概也有看過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
7387.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
7408.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那這個其中有個蠻重要的一個因素當結果 結果是最高行政法院覺得把這個判決原判決把它廢棄了把這個case又把它丟回了 被高刑等於說大概是重新審理吧那他 我只想這中間的引用一個最具體的理由是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
7410.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
7418.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這種評分表的一個變更譬如說我們右邊我簡單來說未來營運計畫佔60%然後你能不能換賬你就按照這個把它做過來右邊是評鑑結果修正改善營運報告佔40%但是它107年跟109年 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
7430.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
7453.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
到中天案子送進來的時候他就用新的法規而且最後他在右邊的內部控管機制跟自律從原本你知道嗎 有時候要考大學高中生在準備 從高一就開始準備高一就看聯考的制度我要考英文系 台大英文 英文加50% |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
7454.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
7474.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
我要考什麼樣的一個系這個部分什麼東西有加分在過去的聯招制度到現在都有加分的項目那大家三年這些學生我就乖乖老老實實去針對這樣的項目來去準備那可是到了要換照的時候說不好意思啊就是換了 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
7476.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
7492.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
整個換了而且有些機制變成他一個整個這個執照就不發給他的所以這個部分最高行政法院你依法行政那在這樣的一個案子你自己的感覺怎麼樣如果 因為你現在還不是你是提名人而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
7493.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
7510.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
你可以有兩種答案第一個就你一個專家學者你就是最高行政法院都這樣的說了現在確實也打回來打回來可能重新要開始雙方再去走一波現在但是你對於這個部分你的看法如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
7512.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
7525.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
這裡面所涉及到的可能有法律面向的問題在中央法規標準法18條的規定裡面在決定程序當中法規的變動是否要重新或者是重修的這個爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
7526.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
7543.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
另外在容許管制機關有寬泛的管制材料的情況之下在總額之下的細項的權重的調整是否能夠被一樣的尊重這可能也是法院在這邊表示不同的想法 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
7543.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
7567.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
好的 我也希望像這樣的一個 這個你是行政法的一個權威嘛一法論法 一法行政嘛所以最高行政法院 不是我說的啦最高行政法院我們也希望你們真的能夠尊重一點如果對於已經覺得有問題的不要再這個硬拗啦如果你有其他理由 你自己再提啦那最後我要真的是如果你們有機會進NCC的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
7568.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
7585.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
我們真的是希望對於剛剛問你台灣整個一個媒體的一個現況其實從多元 億元早期可能國民黨時代也是億元然後慢慢變多元現在就我個人看法是大概現在不管是政論節目主要的媒體 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
7586.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
7608.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
都慢慢慢慢可能有八成都在說一類的話我不知道在NCC未來能夠做什麼第二個在單篇的一個媒體的報導國家重要新聞或者重要的新聞或者社會重要的行為會因為一家媒體覺得我不想報某一個人即使他是大家關注的新聞他也不報 零 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
7609.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
7631.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
他完全可以不報 或者有一些另外一方的 他就給他從頭報到尾我倒是覺得你剛剛講一句話 我是很認同在光譜有不同 但對於新聞媒體它一個本質 它的天職對於有新聞媒體的這個部分 我們也希望你們未來 接下來有機會的話能夠把它做得更好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
7635.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
7659.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
謝謝魯明哲委員發言完畢現在請蔡奇昌委員發言謝謝主席請陳明修被提名人請被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
7668.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
7692.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
委員好 被提名的吳安好我看了一下資料 應該是這一次四個這個NC委員被提名人當中你是唯一上面有填黨籍的是對 那你填的是國民黨那法規是沒有規定法規只有規定說黨籍有黨籍的不可以超過幾分之幾並沒有說 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
7693.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
7706.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
NCC作為一個獨立機關所有的委員必須是無黨籍並沒有這樣的規定但本席有一點好奇如果你真的在立法院投票通過了你會退出國民黨嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
7710.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
7727.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
跟委員報告如果以我的個人家庭背景來說的話是從高中時期就在學校加入然後因為我的家庭因素所以這個參與政黨的事實就一直到今天也沒有任何去變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
7728.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
7757.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
那跟我父親的關係所以我沒有去積極的去處理這個事情那一直到目前這個狀態那如果說我也沒有想做什麼更積極的處理如果像剛剛有委員詢問他是屬於某一種狀態那就到那個狀態下所以你會擔心說因為你是國民黨籍所以大家挑戰你的這個獨立或公正性嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
7758.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
7779.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
我從來不會在這個問題上面有這樣的想法不會擔心這個問題從來不會但本席還是要提醒因為在立法院對NCC委員這麼多年來藍白兩黨都不斷在挑戰委員公正獨立性所以其他三個委員是無黨籍那你是國民黨籍 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
7781 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
7807.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
剛剛又說這個政治的黑手會透過不知道什麼管道伸進來你擔不擔心你被人家誤解說這個國民黨在背後指揮你未來在NCC的委員的職權的行使上面會有這個問題我沒有辦法去影響別人的擔心但是我自己不會所以你很明確的告訴大家所以對NCC委員的獨立性公正性我想這個是每一個NCC委員都應該去遵守 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
7807.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
7817.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
從我的工作到今天我基本上對於應該扮演的獨立性的角色從來沒有質疑過好那魏廷遠我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
7820.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
7848.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
希望今天我的这个问题你能够记住这件事情那我也希望说在未来这个任何在NCC行使职权的时候对于像我们会面临很多因为台湾是一个高度对立的社会所以呢面对哪一家电视台的言论在某一些人认为很对某一些人认为很错哪一些人认为哪一台必须关或撤哪一些人觉得不需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
7849.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
7872.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
那本席認為過度在個案上面關心其實都是一種干預被提名的你同不同意我同意這樣的想法那會有這樣的疑慮我想可能也是未來我們在如果能夠順利擔任這個工作時應該要處理的問題很多的信任是建立在透明的程度上 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
7874.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
7895.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
對 理論上是你講的本席的同意啦但是現實的運作上你再透明還是會有人不斷的在這個台上質詢你而且這個馬上就會發生不相信的話我們在這裡打個賭你只要通過測試之後未來你的行職者準則裡面雖然你覺得你很透明公正獨立 但 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
7897.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
7923.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我本席相信你還是會被挑戰或許不是挑戰你會挑戰主委啦所以你自己那個要很清楚那把尺在哪裡最後一個問題我想這個對本席而言我對於這個詐騙是深惡痛絕詐騙不只是只有NCC的事情書發部內政部警政署甚至整個行政團隊立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
7925.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
7950.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
都必須把這個事情做為最重要的那我看一下這個NCC最近也在宣傳嘛說這個重要的這個國家通訊重播委員會不會用這個E-mail去做發送那個不知道貝提美有沒有注意到這個事情有嘛 就是發送說告訴消費者說 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
7952.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
7967.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
NCC來信用email這個都是假的我們不會做這個事情那本席沒有要你今天回答因為你還沒有通過這個審查所以呢本席希望未來有機會就教於NCC |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
7968.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
7984.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
對於我們的打詐就NCC該扮演特別在簡訊這個平台上面NCC該有什麼樣新的作為跟想法我想是接下來這幾個NCC委員裡面本席最期待你們做到的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
7985.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
8013.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
也就是說不是只有NCC的工作但NCC它有它的這個職權裡面該去負責的事情所以我希望這個負責因為我們還有你通過審查我們還有很多次會有常常見面的機會所以本席一定會來請教NCC看未來怎麼在這個打榨上面辦得也好NCC該做的事情一定要比以前做得更好那個貝提敏大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
8014.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
8030.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
我先不因為時間的關係啦 謝謝謝謝委員好 謝謝 接下來請李昆哲委員質詢好 謝謝蔡會長我們請貝提名人 陳教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
8048.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
8075 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
委員好 被提名的您好剛才有很多委員都誇你是行政法的權威其實我也為你如果是通過被提名之後我也為你擔憂因為過去也有行政法的權威在這邊被行政法的威權修理的遍體鄰商你要好自為之 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
8076.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
8094.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
那我現在這邊要請教一下被提名人那其實你的表現非常的理性 非常的專業其實我也不認為說你就是國民黨籍我甚至認為你是民眾黨的因為你真的就是理性 科學又務實 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
8096.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
8110.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
現在我要請教就是有關於網際網路的視聽服務法它的草案到現在還沒有通過那在目前這樣狀況之下就是說這些境外平台它似乎是不受內容的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
8112.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
8136.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
監管那多數平台他並沒有在我們的國家設置在地的窗口或者是相關的集合制度那這也會導致一些消費者的權益沒有辦法確實的獲得保障之外我們也看到很多的假訊息或是政治廣告他的這樣的一個來源也難以追蹤那 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
8138.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
8162.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
我記得你也提及過我們對於OTT應該要納入公平的一個規範那你當然也應該會支持這個網際網路的視聽服務法吧來簡單說明一下謝謝委員垂詢這個問題其實是一個世界各國面臨到的新的挑戰台灣目前在做這樣一個嘗試亞洲各國也 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
8162.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
8184.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
一樣的有做這樣的一個立法上的思維那委員剛剛所提到的這些跨國平台他們在台灣的落地化這是在管制的我認為它是一個基點這個基點如果沒辦法先把它踩住的話後面的管制都可能會落空對 這種基點就是所謂的落地化責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
8184.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
8194.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
那落地化責任辦包含了透明報告以及相關的內容介入那你認為境外平台它的在地化責任是要怎麼去展現呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
8199.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
8222.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
他的這個在地化的責任包含他如果能夠收到有效的一個監管的話那這裡面可能會刻意他一定的監理的強度對於他比如說我們採取一些強制他登記那引申延伸到後續對於他的這個製作內容上面的一些揭露 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
8223.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
8250.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
甚至於像韓國的做法呢在這個基點上會嘗試對他科證一定的公科等等這些都是一些在立法上可以嘗試的思維這也是我們以後要努力的一個方向針對這個在地發責任這些平台必須要負起這個相關的保護消費者的一個基本的義務那另外我要來請教一下被提名的就是說通常會已經請這個知策會 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
8252.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
8277.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
來研擬相關的廣播與電視頻道AI的應用指引的草案其實是建議媒體應該要明確的標示AI的生成內容而且要落實查證跟相關的比例原則業者應該要自律而非直接的干預當然業者也會有相關的理由 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
8277.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
8306.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
来做一个推卸说这是商业机密这是什么那你的看法是如何的我想目前我们能够先尝试的也如刚刚委员所提示的目前我们先尝试从业界的自律先行这里面包含是不是能够具体的落实业者新闻媒体业者遵守法尊同时要加强他在AI内容的事实查证的机制 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
8308.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
8324.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
這個相關的程序的揭露以及它的相關程序的透明可能是我們目前在這個機制下可以著力的點其實我看到我們目前台灣其實沒有強制力的這種AI內容的標示或者是審核的制度目前是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
8326.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
8349.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
部分新聞台現在也漸漸的在嘗試的用一些AI的生成畫面虛擬的主播或者是主動的寫稿撰稿等等其實觀眾現在難以辨認他的真偽那AI的內容如果是誤導侵權或是性別的刻板印象 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
8350.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
8370.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
那缺乏明確的這種責任歸屬其實我想被提名的也應該清楚歐盟AI法它已經將新聞的AI列為是一種高風險的應用是一種高風險的應用當然我看我們NCC仍然是停留在指引草案的這個階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
8372.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
8398.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
人家是高風險應用的這樣的一個規格在看待我們還在指引草案的這樣的一個一個階段來說明一下對於委員剛剛所詢問到的有一些紅線其實我認為NCC應該是可以確立這些不能夠跨越的紅線特別是在有關於身為技術生成像是這個色情或性影像的這一部分的傳播至少在某一些重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
8400.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
8424.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這個AI技術的運用上面應該要有更加強這個平台守門人的義務的這個空間的對啊 提名的我們來看我們現在AI的技術它其實正在改變新聞的這種生產的流程那AI的自動生成它自動生成新聞或者是影像如何要確保它的真實性因為它號稱是新聞 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
8425.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
8442.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那來源可驗跟倫理問責真實性都是我們要面對的嚴肅課題那NCC是否應該要建立這種AI生成內容的標示跟集合的規範呢來 你說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
8443.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
8464.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
我認為這個部分的這個透明化的標示是有它的必要一般我們在對於廣播新聞節目電影頻道的電影的這些管制分級的一些分類的管制標示它的重要性在AI運用於新聞的製作上面我想應該是有同樣的道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
8464.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
8475.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
好這個希望這個被提名的人如果順利通過提名也必須針對剛才所提的方面實際的努力的督促跟推動謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
8486.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
8500.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
好謝謝蔡其昌會長現在請鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員鍾嘉斌委員不在現在請武力華委員武力華委員武力華委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
8501.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
8517.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
現在請許智傑委員許智傑委員許智傑委員不在現在請陳素月委員陳素月委員陳素月委員不在現在請林俊憲委員林俊憲委員林俊憲委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
8517.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
8531.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
現在請范雲委員 范雲委員 范雲委員不在現在請徐滬葵委員 徐滬葵委員 徐滬葵委員不在現在請黃健豪委員發言好 謝謝主席那我們一樣邀請被提名人請被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
8551.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
8570.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
委員好陳老師你好我想針對很多委員剛剛在提黨籍的問題剛好國民黨剛剛選完主席我想確認一下你有收到投票通知單嗎沒有那你有繳黨費嗎沒有那我想你可能算是廣義來說算失聯黨員我在這方面幫你澄清一下你應該不算黨員了 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
8571.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
8591.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
所以你的這個可能早年的黨籍在國民黨但是我想現在你應該沒有具有黨籍的身份我在這邊幫你澄清一下所以你未來不用擔心這個政黨中立的問題我想你不是現階段你在黨員資料庫裡面既然你沒有收到投票通知單就表示你現在沒有黨權這是第一個部分那再來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
8594.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
8620.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
陳老師你是我們許多單位的這個訴願委員那當然包含說今天大家非常關心的一樣還是屬於中天案這件事情那針對中天案的話我想這個一二審加起來已經有數十次這個NCC有這個所謂敗訴的紀錄那我不知道說作為一個訴願委員您認為我想了解一下你對這個事情的法律上的見解還有以及你會是否依照後續法院的規範來做相關的處置在這個事情上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
8621.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
8638.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
謝謝委員的指正 我剛剛在前面幾個委員的這個提問當中也已經有說明過就是說在法院的裁判出現上級審跟這個市審之間認知的這個落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
8639.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
8657.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這是一個在法院判決當中常見的現象那我認為就NCC這樣的原主任機關來講他應該注意的是被糾正的為師的點是在事實認定上面的錯誤或者是他在法律見解上面的失衡 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
8658.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
8683.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那就這個部分如果有最終的法院的確定終局裁判出來之後作為一個法治國家下的獨立機關依照法院判決應該採取的作為這個應該沒有其他的空間好 謝謝陳老師那接下來這個這題其他的部分針對說現在是這個我想數位匯流時代那現在NCC現在NCC的狀況基本上是管有線電視那其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
8686.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
8708.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
在有限電視這部分有在監管但是對於網路的部分好像跟網路業界跟這個所謂電視平台的監管差別非常大那不知道說在您的例子上面你覺得說未來要不要改變這個現象包含說有沒有可能是廢除廣電三法還是納入網路的管理在這個事情上面您對這個事情的看法是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
8710.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
8735.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我对这问题的看法是认为目前我们在NCC的职长上面所管应该说归管的对象是限制在电信业者身上所以就法规所赋予NCC职长的权限范围有现行法当中一定的局限虽然在组织法当中有扩增到网际网路传播的监管 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
8736.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
8753.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
但是目前我们对于网际网路平台上面的监管的力度基本上等同于零我们采取的是一个比较弱密度的一个规管的一个形态那就它所造成的产业生态上面的影响却是如此的重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
8754.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
8776.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
那我自己的想法是不會採取二則一的方式而是應該改善我們既有對於像有線電視或者是衛星廣播電視法當中它的管制密度是否應該相應的隨之做一些平衡的規範那對於目前上缺規範的例如像是網際網路上面的這些服務業者的這些規 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
8778.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
8798.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
規範呢是應該提升應該提升至少不管是採取自律性的規範或者是一種協力性的規範應該要將他的規範的密度往上提升因為這個問題涉及到說我個人認為這個管不管的問題涉及到對言論自由對於這個言論市場的界定 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
8798.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
8821.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
過去當然因為電視時代因為這個要發照等等要經過NCC的同意要經過政府機關的同意它才能夠繼續延續下去那網路沒有這個限制那當然現在造成就是說因為電視的這個市場的狀況跟網路的狀況它們原本市場的狀況不太一致所以當然造成在競爭上面或在現在我們看到的很多型態上面兩者的 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
8822.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
8834.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
兩者的自由度是有差的所以如果您順利就任NCC的這個職位的話你是認為說網路要納進來呢我剛剛再明確一點我意思是說你覺得要把網路納進來還是說應該放寬對電視頻道的管制 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
8839.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
8858.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
我認為我個人當然這個要整個NCC的決策共識決定如果問我個人的話我認為是要做一個類似水平的調整就是太嚴格的是不是要做它的管制密度稍微的調降那麼就沒有規則的部分應該要提升 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
8859.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
8869.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
OK好那最後因為時間的關係我最後再問一下我想因為又提到有線電視因為前段時間我想有線電視時不時就發生一次啦就是頻道代理商跟有線電視業者之間會有爭議那當然過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
8872.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
8889.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
都會有這種針對可能是針對有限電視業者來裁罰那好像也沒有特別針對頻道代理商的問題就頻道代理商現在的問題是說我們常常講說為什麼我們在有限Cable台它不能自由的收拾是因為有這個頻道代理商會綁一整串的 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
8890.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
8918.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這個頻道賣給地方的有線電視所以在收視群眾來講我不能自由的去選擇這個電視頻道那當然你用串流服務那是另外一件事情我講的是傳統的收視的這些觀眾所以未來如果您如果有機會就任NCC副主委的話您對於這件事情的態度是什麼你希望解開嗎還是說繼續維持現有的機制因為這個財法每次可能大概就對業者來說是幾百萬但這個利益我想是這個商議員的這個利益我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
8919.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
8937.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
相對比例來講不太一樣所以我不知道你對這個事情的態度是什麼我自己是從消費者這個角度來看的話應該要讓這個消費者有更大的選擇的空間而不是一個完全被迫接受的一個服務目前我理解的可能有若干的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
8938.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
8955.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
已經有在推動所謂的分級付費的這樣的一個機制那當然這有正反不同的聲音以及不同的應該面對的這個地方上的挑戰但我我比較積極的樂見這樣的一個制度能夠比較廣泛的推行好謝謝謝謝陳老師謝謝謝謝黃建豪委員發言完畢現在請邱若驊委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
8969.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
8977.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
謝謝主席主席請NCC副主任委員被提名人陳明修陳教授請陳被提名人 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
8986.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
9005.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
陳教授好 本學看到您在行政法學界深耕多年歷任公務人員保障及培訓委員會的專任委員還有文化部的溯源審議委員也擔任過企業的獨立董事那這樣的履歷顯示您在政府決策還有民間產業間都有相當的經驗還有人脈那正因如此 那社會 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
9008.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
9036.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
關注您如果進入NCC這個具高材料權的機關的時候要如何確認這些過往的關係不會產生利益糾葛或是影響公正呢謝謝委員的詢問如果剛剛所說的我目前所參與的工作基本上都不是在政策決定層面上面的工作而是純粹的法律救濟法規的研擬這個層次的法律專業的提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
9038.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
9056.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
包含我目前還擔任的獨立董事在業務面向上跟通常會歸管的業務基本上沒有直接的關係所以您認為這樣都不會產生任何利益糾葛跟影響嗎我自己目前是不會有這方面的疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
9057.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
9080.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
是那因為過去NCC被批評在部分媒體或是平台的案件上面他的裁罰選擇性強而且關係不明確那這些質疑不往往是針對法律然後也是針對個人或是公司企業那作為一個NCC作為一個獨立機關我們都不希望他看到有政治干預或是人脈干預還有關係的干預那是不是可以請您具體的回答如果您 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
9081.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
9093.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
就是在上任之前願不願意主動提出利益迴避的清單公開的列出這三年曾經合作過的還有諮詢過或是任職過的公司部門還有企業呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
9094.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
9112.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我個人嗎當然沒問題當然沒問題因為這個不只是個人的生命也是讓就是社會有一個檢驗的依據那再來要請問您是否支持NCC建立委員利益的揭露與迴避名單呢我認為這也是必然的這也是必然的嗎如果您上任之後您願意來做這件事我認為是 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
9114.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
9143.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
是那因為NCC它的委員會的獨立性那不只是制度的保障那它也需要有透明化的體現那既然我們期待NCC是一個公信的建立者那委員部應該就是只有被動的依法迴避那我們希望都是可以主動的來揭露那本席一樣您我有看到您在書面的答播中有提到針對假訊息還有身為影印的問題您傾向於產業自律來作為主要的策略 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
9144.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
9170.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那也認為應該要尊重平台還有業者的自我規範政府認為政府僅作為協調與教育的角色那這樣子的言論呢理論上它是有自由主義的基礎但是現實上面我們來看自律的機制它台灣根本沒有辦法有效的運作啊那我們現在因為看到也看到詐騙廣告還有假投資還有假的交友幾乎每天都在社群平台還有媒體上面出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
9171.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
9192.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
那行政院統計那一年呢被通報的疑似詐騙訊息超過30萬則其中有一半以上發生在社群平台那這些平台常在業者自律的名義下拖延處理或是拒絕結論或是拒絕回應那對民眾來說這根本是擺爛不作為那這邊要請教教授 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
9192.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
9210.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那接下來呢如果您作為NCC的副主委如果NCC只停留在召開座談會促進協力的角色那這樣沒有辦法回應社會對於網路的治理的期待那您是否同意NCC應該要求大型的平台定期揭露透明的報告呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
9212.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
9238.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
從理念上我會支持這樣的做法但是實踐上面有沒有辦法達到這樣的這個結果或是時效性因為這裡面可能不是單純的只有公權力彰顯的問題他還會涉及到比較廣泛的比如說業者的相關的營業秘密上面的保護就理念上來講我可以支持往這個方向推進 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
9239.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
9255.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
是因為本席提到這個他的報告我們希望這報告裡面呢能包括假訊息移除的數量還有他的查核流程還有就這個部分是沒有問題的嗎那如果平台沒有改善的話那你是否贊成NCC有強制的裁罰或是下架的命令呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
9257.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
9271.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
就歸管的體制我們現在來看業者根本不會去自律的做到這件事那未來如果您上任之後您會如何的來要求業者裁罰當然是一個大家樂見的或者是比較利己的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
9273.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
9288.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
管制的手段那但是一樣會遇到的問題是對於平台的這個制裁或者是對於他的管制是不是能夠確實找到可規則的對象這也是我們在建議相關制度時會面臨到的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
9289.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
9309.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
因為現在很多民眾認為NCC如果只停留在要求業者自律還有宣導那這樣子NCC形同虛設那您要如何在尊重言論自由還有保障公共安全之間建立一個更有效的平衡剛剛委員所提到的是防堵防炸的假訊息這樣的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
9312.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
9338.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
那目前我們一方面又期待對於言論的這個審查應該要相對的保留但是一方面又期待我們能夠有更積極的作為所以在這個管制的手段的選取上面單純的以介入裁罰的這樣的做法恐怕不是一個最好的選項那我剛剛也特別提到的一些公司部門的協力管制的模式陳教授因為時間的關係那本期再問一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
9341.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
9362.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
近年來社會對NCC的質疑其中是有沒有裁罰的依據為什麼罰這個不罰那個同樣是節目的偏頗還有假訊息有的媒體被重罰有的沒有有時候裁罰的理由只有一段摘要外界根本沒有辦法去判斷未來您是否支持NCC全面公開裁罰的決議書全文還有會議記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
9364.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
9389.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
這個讓社會可以來做監理剛剛我有提到過一個獨立機關的公正性能不能獲得人民的支持他有相當多的一些輔助的機制而其中的透明化或資訊的揭露這是一個必要的做法那我也希望能夠朝這個方向去做努力但是在這個所謂的街市的量能上面也要考慮到機關的能力負擔那我 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
9390.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
9409.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
自己對於重要決定的這個程序上面以及決定內容意見上面的揭露我認為這是必要的好您認為這是必要的好謝謝您的說明謝謝好謝謝邱若驊委員質詢完畢現在請張雅玲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
9431.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
9445.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
好謝謝主席我們邀請那個陳明修副主委請陳備提名人委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
9446.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
9473.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
陳教授你好 你長期研究這個憲法與行政法也曾經擔任行政院跟監察院的訴院審議委員那學術的關注核心在於行政管制與程序的正當性尤其是強調了政府在法治國原則下行使權限必須兼顧合法性與必要性那NCC作為一個跨越傳播數位以及行政監督的機關其實最常面臨的困難就是如何在合法核限的前提之下做出符合比例原則的一個積極決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
9474.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
9496.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
避免陷入一個依法不作為的僵局那我想問的並不是說NCC到底會不會違法而是當社會需要NCC行動的時候他會不會有勇氣去作為特別來說對於家長來說NCC的每一個決定都不是抽象的條文而已他是決定了孩子看到的每一個畫面聽到了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
9497.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
9524.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
所以呢這份表呢其實是NCC違反有限電視廣播法案才建的一個裁量基準我們可以看到這個判斷嚴重程度的依據只有規定違反的次數一次違規算嚴重兩次以上才算非常嚴重可是呢對於實際的違規樣態例如性質影響對象或者是社會的危害程度其實是沒有詳細一個細緻的區分 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
9527.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
9546.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所以有些可能只是技術性的疏失有些可能是直接涉及了兒少的權益甚至是假訊息的傳播所以一次的錯誤可能只是因為程序上的疏漏但是一次的錯誤也有可能是傷害了一個孩子所以我想要請您說明你認為在這樣子的裁量機制之下是否會造成裁量怠惰有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
9547.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
9565.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
NCC可以在這樣子的裁量基準引入更多內容面的判斷要素呢例如是否涉及公共利益以及兒少權益是否有再犯風險或者是造成社會不特定的多數受害或者是違規對象的受眾結構以及對於社會影響程度來進行所謂的量化跟分級呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
9566.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
9580.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
謝謝委員 委員剛剛有提到我們擔任的一些目前協助政府部門的工作在疏遠的決定在法規的研擬上面您所提到的這個問題其實也是我極關心的問題點 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
9582.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
9604.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
一般的行政機關往往因為財閥的便利性會製作非常多的這樣的財閥基準減去了很多的行政成本的支出但是它會使得本應裁量的權限因此就被取而代之導致一個僵化的一個財閥會呈現出實質上違反正當性的這樣的結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
9605.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
9621.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我自己对于裁量基准或裁罚基准的制定虽然可以当作认为它可以当作是一个裁罚辅助的工具但不以此为限机关和义务的裁量应该在这个裁罚基准的前提之下随着个案情境的差异性 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
9622.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
9642.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
他應該在法規的這個容許的裁罰範圍當中有個案裁量的空間那最好的方式當然是可以隨著裁罰的案件經驗的累積與時俱進的去調整他的裁罰的基準然後加入相應的權重加入相應的這些比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
9642.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
9668.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
好我這樣聽起來就是說其實副組委提名人是蠻支持我說的這樣子從內容面分類出更多樣態然後讓他可能根據相對的案量的累積之後去做一個更積極的量化那接下來我就想要跟副組委提名人再討論一下說這樣子的裁量怠惰呢在兒少保護問題上面是尤其的關鍵就是說在我們的兒少法第46條裡面呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
9670.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
9692.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
抱歉喔好像跳掉了抱歉這個這一頁好我們到下一頁就好下一頁 對就是說在我們兒少權法第46條裡面防害兒少身心健康被列為記者項目涵蓋範圍非常的廣從暴力血腥恐怖色情到錯誤資訊都有可能被納入那NCC呢依此條過去在介入的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
9692.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
9722.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
社會的輿論其實常常出現兩極的評價有一部分覺得NCC太保守了有一部分又覺得NCC越學模糊但是在這樣子的灰色地帶NCC如果只求不會出錯反而可能會讓孩子一次又一次的暴露在傷害裡那這邊我就舉了幾個具體的例子就例如就是說苗栗國小的學童刺傷案我們可以在新聞看到完整的事發經過而且反覆的被播放那上個禮拜台北車站的性侵案也是都是在民眾強烈抗議之後才移除的 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
9722.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
9743.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以我想要強調這個移除不代表就不存在了因為很多人可能就把它備份下來所以那個傷害就是不可逆的所以我想要請教一下陳教授媒體報導範圍與影像呈現的一個界限問題到底要如何的去規範跟界定如果媒體主張說這是屬於真實的社會案件有它的新聞價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
9745.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
9756.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
NCC又認為畫面或語言不當導致兒少受影響的時候那裁量應該落在哪裡呢或是要以社會影響為核心還是以內容意圖作為判斷的標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
9758.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
9784.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我想这里会涉及到媒体自律的问题以及万一进入到管制机关的裁罚时就我理解NC就这个问题的判断有他自己的内容审议的这个判断那要画出一条绝对的线恐怕在立法上面确实有他的困境但是在个案的判断上面应该可以尊重各 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
9786.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
9793.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
專業的這個委員他們在這個判斷上面可以去權衡到底所呈現出來的畫面是不是已經踩到紅線 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
9794.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
9819.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好 那我接下來就想用三峽這個案例來跟您做討論我認為NCC應該要有更積極的一個作為就是說當時媒體去採訪了一個目睹整個事件的一個國中生然後這個鏡頭是直接拍到他的臉那我當時就有在衛福部質詢的時候要求他應該要跟NCC來合作通知媒體下架所以我要講的是說從法律來說這樣子的做法可能沒有直接違法但是我也認為NCC不應該只有以合法 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
9820.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
9841.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
作為唯一的判斷標準所以呢我會認為NCC在這件事情的作為是有點被動所以我們是不是可以期待NCC在這種相對於兒少保護的範圍可以建立更明確的保護規範以及採取更主動的行動因為我還是要必須再次強調就是說這些對於孩子的傷害是不可逆的 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
9841.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
9868.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
我非常贊成委員的這個想法那因為有關性侵的問題在這個衛務部這邊有相關的處理的可是一般性的在媒體的比較急速的處理上面目前在我們的衛管法有關法上面是確實比較沒有那麼立即處理的這個規範存在好那我們是不是未來可以來建立更積極明確的保護規範讓相關的行動可以更主動 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
9868.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
9894.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
我也期許可以在這邊有這樣的一個實現的可能好謝謝好謝謝張雅琳委員發言完畢現在請黃國昌委員黃國昌委員黃國昌委員不在現在請楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員楊瓊英委員不在現在請王美惠委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
9895.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
9913.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
王美惠委員 王美惠委員不在現在請蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在現在請林怡瑾委員 林怡瑾委員林怡瑾委員不在 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
9914.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
9930.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
現在請徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員徐欣盈委員不在現在請高金素美委員高金素美委員高金素美委員不在現在請尤浩委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
9931.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
9955.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
猶豪委員猶豪委員不在現在請何新淳委員何新淳委員何新淳委員不在現在請葉元之委員葉元之委員葉元之委員不在被提名人陳明修先生之說明與答詢完畢結束 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
9958.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
9975.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
另外委員魯明哲、邱若驊、何欣淳、游浩、陳秀寶本日所提書面質詢列入記錄並刊登公報本日會議結束22日星期三繼續開會休息 |