| IVOD_ID |
169578 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169578 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-22 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-11 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第11次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
11 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第11次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-22T14:31:07+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-22T14:47:01+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:54 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5facaeb0533af710a285ce2fef76a9fd12ff92f8a104cb3e8ce52a2a15689025f0e74eb070a3a03c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李彥秀 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:31:07 - 14:47:01 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-22T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第11次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。二、5月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。三、5月26日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
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麻煩請鎖院長麻煩請鎖院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
27.711 |
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31.273 |
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院长我今天要跟你讨论一下 |
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57.731 |
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75.13 |
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但是馬上消基會就打臉說信託基金不等於保障恐怕是看得到吃不到我要更要強調的是我更關鍵是信託基金他不能取代企業原本應該就要負的所有的責任也就不一定是所有 |
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77.232 |
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97.591 |
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所有的財務糾紛裡面不一定所有的人都可以申請到信託基金的支付所以近期無論從媒體上看到我辦公室也有接到陳情民眾在跟醫美診所要求退費的時候比如說有些人買五堂送一堂十堂送一堂原本要送的那第一堂 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
98.231 |
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113.539 |
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他就變成說那第一堂我沒有送第一堂我要收費這個是其中一種狀態第二種甚至是我接到陳情說甚至有一些診所要求退費同時要簽同意醫療過程錄影錄音的同意書 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
114.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
141.738 |
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這件事 我相信市長也從媒體上有看到假證送 徵扣款甚至是誘導要簽放棄錄影錄音的同意書這件事情我要請問衛福部有沒有掌握這件事無論從媒體上看到還有從臉書上還有社群網路都有討論這件事情到底針對這整件事情我們政府衛福部有沒有任何的作為可以保障民眾的就醫的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
143.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
157.176 |
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好 謝謝委員先跟委員這邊說明愛爾利或相關的這些連鎖集團他用課程的方式來做預購甚至做優惠這個已經違反醫療法因為在醫療法裡面醫療行為不可以廣告 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
157.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
182.296 |
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不可以用預售的方式所以這個部分它違反醫療法後續我們會用醫療法來罰也就是說它用課程的方式來規避它是醫療行為這個部分它其實等於是說它不能把醫療行為拿來這個不行也就是說它在原先裡面它就已經違反醫療法了它用課程的方式販賣是違法的拜託次長你剛剛都說得很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
183.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
204.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
現在在就是說我收到這些陳我相信你有看到我覺得你應該更具體的把它公告清楚讓民眾知道這是我第一點那第二點就是說我覺得這整件事情我要接下來跟院長討論就是說真恐攝影機的管理這整件事情到底我們還有什麼事情可以做從去年六月院長台北市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
205.051 |
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230.171 |
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就來公文跟你澄清當時我們行政院秘書長就回應說真恐攝影機的管理實名制的管理我們當時回台北市政府說我們不需要管理不需要相關法規來管理當時我們三個藉口是第一個日本韓國都沒有禁止而且更擔心的是合法用途會被影響第三個回應的是說這是使用者違法不關器材的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
231.516 |
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254.64 |
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這個聽在今天事後發生這一連串醫美診所的偷拍的事件用這種攝影機我覺得民眾恐怕是不能接受事實上日本韓國的電商早就已經把偽裝式的偷拍攝影機這不是密錄器這不是一般我們看到的這個什麼監視器這是偽裝式的攝影機什麼樣的人會用偽裝式的攝影機 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
258.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.558 |
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即便是警察跟民眾有問題他拍個秘錄交通我現在在用秘錄這還不是偽裝喔我們看到 看一下影片什麼叫偽裝攝影機那個放在那個火災的感應器裡面放在衛生紙裡面偷放一個攝影機甚至在筆裡面他也可以放針孔攝影機院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
279.819 |
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297.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
什麼樣的人會需要使用偷拍攝影機我們難道不應該實名制做一些管理嗎剛好日本韓國都已經下架了就是說平台它不可以販賣去年市政府來函行政院回覆從來沒有在裡面說這個事情我們不用管 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
298.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
318.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
從來沒有這樣講我們是講出很多的情境那主要這個查查巡查在地方政府我們在回覆當中是說地方政府如果又發現在執行上要必須加強的...院長我不想再跟你講去年因為這整件事情我們非常清楚就是說...因為剛剛您說不必管這件事情不是真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
320.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
344.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
好 那麼對這些工這些事情我們對隱匿的這些器材包括它從來源取得或是它經過實體或是這個平台上去取得都必須要再做加強管理尤其是 孫立你也同意實名制囉你也同意接下來實名制嗎實名制是否可實行我們還要再研究但是如果在平台上 還要研究多久在我看來 院長我是女性在我看來 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
346.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
360.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這整件事情我們非常清楚知道台北市政府出這個公文它的意義是什麼那你的藉口也就算了在我民眾看來在我民眾看來這件事情會爆發議論我們要跟你講不是藉口 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
363.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
365.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
我先補充報告委員報告爆發這個醫美診所偷拍的事件之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
385.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
411.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
立刻在第一時間你不用回答我這件事情我只問未來平台上我沒有說不可以販賣我說實名制登記要買實名制登記當爆發事情的時候我們可以回溯去說到底是誰我們十字公買那個十字公竟然都要實名制登記難道買偷拍攝影機偽裝攝影機這件事情我們不該有實名制登記嗎攝影器材本身並不是違法品我現在講的是偽裝式的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
412.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
438.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
所以這些設備要先給你定義 什麼樣的設備我同意 但是這個定義不滿啊那我們前兩天行政院張秘書長已經開過相關的會我們從他的行為面 設備面 法規面 以及沒關係 院長我同意 要過多久 院長還要多久要過多久 去年市政府來函給行政院之後快一年的 市政府也沒有任何進展啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
439.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
442.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
對現在數百個個案已經報告發了告發人數百位個案我們嚴格的來查查請地方政府來配合 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
456.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
485.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第二個 各個場域都有相關的法規 院長我請問你有沒有實名制 能不能實名制 要求實名制你要買這些偽裝式的針孔攝影機設備而言 我們先定義哪一種設備去叫實名如果平台上面買到的從境外來的 當然要實名制如果它用經過我們的這個海關進來的該管理的設備進到廠商 店家當然要實名如果海外 院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
485.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
507.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
因為我的時間只有15分鐘海外的 國內的都偽裝式的攝影機我們什麼時候才能實名制登記可不可以給我答覆我們正在研究 最快的時間我們研究出一個方式我們要管理到店家要實名制沒關係 因為你只要一個考慮下去他們就是要大概要多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
508.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
516.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
媒體需要答案 國運也需要一個答覆我們需要把整個制度弄好我想很快的時間 我會跟專業處長研究醫療院所就是不可以偷拍 我們不會容忍 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
536.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
561.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
所以我 沒關係 院長我只要防止有些人拿偽裝攝影機 所以當他犯罪的時候我們可以回溯到這到底是項目欸 警察也可以追得到不像現在找不到人嘛所以你現在回答不出來我的答案 那也沒關係我們協會都有請各部會兩個禮拜天要回覆他們去調查的結果出來那麼訂定一套可行的制度出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
563.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
590.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以還要多久 可行的制度還要多久還是不知道就對了好沒關係 我尊重院長這也是一個答案我不能急救章跟你講一個大家做不到的事情我們已經要求訴訴來辦理這個事情院長我只是很遺憾我身為女性醫美診所旁邊的朋友民眾看到的這個還是沒有答案好沒關係 我問一下下一個問題就是說針對霸凌案的事件那個次長你請回我先把法律講清楚 院長今年1月9號公務人員保障法已經開始實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
592.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
606.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
严慧心严副代表在当时提辞职信的时候我们在2月19号已经提出辞职信当时如果有机关知道说这是霸凌事件的话按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
607.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
632.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
公務人員保障法因為MeToo事件之後一連串包含之前發生勞動部的事件我們都對公務人員相關有霸凌事件只是在公部機關民間機關我們都是不允許的我們也更認為說機關按照法規我們應該採取立即有效的糾正跟補措的措施那行為人涉嫌案件重大的話就必須要先調整職務 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
634.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
660.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
這是法規法的規定寫得清清楚楚而且這是在勞動部之前發生事件之後我們在1月9號公務人員保障法當時就寫得很清楚那當時外部調查小組就建議說楊政委楊珍妮就說要請假或者是依規定依規定應該要請假那後來楊珍妮也回應說好我依規定適度辦理我現在先請勞動部部長上來 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
664.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
682.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
這個如果發生在民間因為我們今年執安法7月1號就要上路這件事情如果發生在民營的機關就是說依照法規我們要求應該要有一些有效的措施或補正措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
685.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
709.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
應該要請假 他也回應依規定辦理部長 你可以接受嗎 職安法如果在民間的職場有這樣的案子發生 有霸凌事件發生我們要求要請假 他只回應這個涉嫌霸凌的人說我依規定辦理我會適度辦理那最後沒有任何作為這個答案你可以接受嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
711.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
725.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他說你現在的答案不是依規他不是說他依規定辦理嗎依什麼規定他沒有做任何作為啊他還是在職位上啊按照道理說他應該是先調離如果有霸凌事件發生應該先調離現職讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
729.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
740.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
涉嫌霸凌者跟受霸凌的人要稍微分開一下這是我們治安法當時立這個法的主要精神在根文說明 調離是一種方法但基本上是希望這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
743.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
764.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
潛在的接受調查的是分開不見得一定只有調查好沒關係來那院長就是說這個過程當中其實我們楊政委從來沒有離開位子上也沒有分開過所以這個霸凌事件就一直在發生我覺得你剛才部長你也解釋得很清楚治安法按照道理說 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
765.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
783.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
不管是不是調離限職要稍微分開一下要求他請假幾天或讓這兩個人分開不一定只有調離限職這個做法而是讓他們在業務上面的互動減少互動或者是先切割開來不會那麼緊密可是不是只有調離這個做法委員三件事情報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
784.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
801.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
外部委員建議楊珍妮政委請假並沒有直接請她調離那她也適度的請假第二她也適度的請假減少上班工作的時間她也適度的請假第二她沒有去影響或是阻礙任何調查的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
803.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
826.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
第三 最重要的 楊珍妮認為現在人在中國 在江蘇參加APEC相關的會議前面這兩個禮拜 她還是有一些必須為這個國際性會議要準備的事項所以她降低最小的工作量能 維持最小的工作程度絕對沒有去影響任何書面或私底調查我這樣聽起來 院長 其實大齡事件你早就聽說了 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
828.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
854.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
在他辭職之前你早就聽說這是另外一件 這不是我今天我今天其實很多重點要問但是我認為這件事情 院長你早就知晰了按照道理說機關的最高的我看到嚴副總代表的辭職信那個時候我們在想我們如果了解但第一個那個是過年前農曆年前第二他人在生病當中這麼重要 院長這麼重要的職位我們都沒辦法當場去了解他所說的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
855.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
877.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
院長這麼重要的人這麼重要的位階包括我相信副院長也一定都非常清楚我非常遺憾就是說我們既然已經有工人員保障法但整個霸凌事件在公本文是這樣子的處理態度所以為什麼我剛才問勞動部部長今天7月1號我們就要上路他的實質性你沒有講到他都沒有向我們提起 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
880.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
901.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
但是那個實質性我們看到了當時是過年前他仍在生病當中第一時間我當然無法馬上去跟他談院長這個霸凌的事件發生的時候我不相信在職場同一個職場旁邊的幾個這一圈第二圈的人都沒有人聽說這件事我是對我來說我覺得不可置信那我們去了解真相 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
901.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
923.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
沒關係 因為這個事情在調查當中但是院長 保訊會就是說兩個月之內就要完成調查那我請問5月27號保訊會就會有一個結果那到底會不會有結果出來 還是要再延?依規定可以再延長一定的時間這麼單純的案子還要再延長一個月他仍在參加APEC委員 請您將心比心 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
924.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
928.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
國家重要的會議他去參加所以等他回來就再進一步的說明這樣難道不行嗎為國家一個公務員 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
953.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
953.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
好謝謝你 |