| IVOD_ID |
16956 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16956 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
黨團協商-2025101635 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
黨團協商 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
立法院朝野黨團協商 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-16T14:30:30+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-16T16:03:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
01:32:30 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/cbbd4ed0b5fcd3a0a212a47f970ca70307c1bf31ec4524fdb5dbf79f23f633bbc636f4689aeca27a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-16T15:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院黨團協商（事由：一、研商「中華民國114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算及綜計表–營業及非營業部分」相關事宜。二、研商「115年度中央政府總預算案（含附屬單位預算及綜計表–營業及非營業部分）」相關事宜。（國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團分別提議）三、研商「財政收支劃分法部分條文修正草案」案。（國民黨黨團提議）四、研商「中選會函請本院分別就陳天壽先生、張人仰先生及趙偉程先生領銜提出之全國性公民投票案提出意見書」相關事宜。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:30:30 - 16:03:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1891.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].end |
1908.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
好 謝謝謝謝各位列席的黨團幹部也謝謝各位列席的閣員跟官員謝謝大家我們現在開始開會向各位報告一下我們今天要協商昨天沒有協商完成的各個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1910.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1933.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
第一題是一百四年度附屬單位預算第二題是一百四五年度總預算第三題是裁劃法修正案第四題是有關公民婦決中選會函請本院提出意見書我們現在先進行第一題的協商本件協商單純就是定一個收案期限 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1934.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1963.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那我在這裡提出一個建議那看看柯總召 羅書記長以及張其凱副總召看有沒有意見我們是不是建議在11月3號星期一下午5點之前截止收案請問各位黨團幹部有沒有意見對11月3號因為這個東西還要兩個禮拜再送回來財委會之後再來整理所以說我們先定在11月3號星期一下午5點前截止收案請問各位黨團幹部有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1964.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1993.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
沒有意見 好 謝謝那就請簽字我們就把第一題確定我把它念一下那我把各位所達成的共識分為兩個重點在這裡宣告一下一 請各黨團於11月3號星期一下午5點前將114年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業及非營業部分之提案送至財政委員會後會診預時我們不再收案 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1994.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
2022.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
二 財政委員會收案之後交各該委員會整理附應相關提案後於11月10號星期一下午點前提供各黨團及相關行政部門參考請行政部門先行向提案委員及提案黨團進行雙向說明 落實溝通以利後續進行密集的協商那大家都已經同意黃總召議員在您的桌上 請看一下這相對單純 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
2025.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
2034.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
簽字完我們就把DM就等到財政委員會整理完畢之後我們再來訂一個協商日期好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
2045.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
2074.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
好 如果各位黨團幹部同意的話我們就第一個案我們就確定了我們現在開始進入二三四題如果各位黨團幹部同意的話是不是我們把第四案先提早來討論因為相對來講單純很多第四案呢就是延商中學會韓請本院分別就陳天壽先生張仁陽先生及趙偉成先生領銜提出全國性公民投票案提出意見書相關事宜 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
2077.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
2079.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
我們請法制局長請做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
2080.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2106.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
好 那跟各位黨兵說明一下中選院這個來談我們分成三個部分第一個部分就是陳天壽先生所領銜提議的公職人員選舉罷免案第76條第三項第79條第一項他是針對罷免案的提議人要付身分證證法命運本他提醒公民護絕請求那個予以廢止那第二案是 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2107.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2122.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
公正宣舉罷免案第八十條第四項第八十三條第一項他是針對罷免案的連署人必須負身份證證還要免影本然後請求公民護絕予以廢止那第三案是第九十八條之二的 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2123.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2145.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
公正選舉辦案第918條之二它的大概內容就是說如果說這個連署有偽造假冒 虛偽不實的必須負擔相關的刑責因為這個都牽涉到當時我們在去年12月20號這個法案的都是按照國民黨黨團的修正動議通過那是不是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2146.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2162.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
是不是要提出我們立法院的意見書請各黨團公決那每一案上述的三案每一案都是要兩千之以內以上說明完畢這個是不是請各黨團提供意見書請各黨團現在有什麼意見請表達柯總召請國民黨團請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2167.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2177.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
過去議員法院都沒有提 我們也沒有提所以這一次應該是管理不必提民進黨柯總統就不再提 請國民黨團請表達意見國民黨團同意柯總統的意見 請台灣民眾黨團表達意見同意謝謝 我們三個黨團已經達成共識 我們就不再提意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2192.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2215.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
我們會好 謝謝那第四題我們現在就已經達成共識了我們現在開始進入我們今天發的協商通知的第二題一百一十五年度中央政府總預算案含附屬單位預算及中繼表營業及非營業部分的相關事宜國民黨團及台灣民眾黨團分別提議首先請國民黨團發言台灣民眾黨團請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2219.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2239.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
謝謝主席今天能夠再一次召集朝野協商針對115年度中央政府總預算由民眾黨所提出退回總預算國民黨競表支持因為針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2241.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2257.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
這個修法的部分已經三讀完成並經總統行政院附屬之後由總統府公告總統府公告對於軍人加薪的部分軍人加擠的部分調升為三萬元這個是經過 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2261.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2286.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
立法院大家也經過朝野協商而且很重要的是在民進黨高級所謂抗中保台之下來隱藏所有貪污腐敗的事實在這種情況裡面我們既然要保衛中華民國我們對軍人的待遇本來就要提升不然一個職業軍人一個月薪水三萬五千三扛槍上戰場然後還要養家活口 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2290.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2318.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
我想這個隊這兩年來這個職業軍人的招募一直是一個很大的一個瓶頸我們體恤這些職業軍人必須要好好的照顧家庭要一個起碼的待遇所以呢經過大家一直討論完之後在立法院已經三讀通過三讀通過而且經過行政院卓榮泰院長附屬送到總統府由賴清德總統正式公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2320.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2347.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
但是行政院左榮泰院長帶頭毀憲亂政竟然敢不編預算完全把立法院當作行政院的立法科可以這樣子歧視踐踏人民的國會權我們聲表抗議接著下來有有過之啊對於退休的這些警察消防人員這些終身貢獻給國家 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2350.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2362.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
讓他們在物價接漲的今天我們希望這個警察消防以及相關的人員能夠得到一個安養能夠好好的安身立命 以養天年 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2363.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2385.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
這個也是對未來國家招募人才能夠進入政府能夠一流的人才能夠進入政府而不是民進黨現在都只用三流五流的人才把國家越搞越糟糕所以我們希望能夠得到這些為國盡忠這些公職人員尤其是警察 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2387.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2416.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
這個守護我們社會的治安還有消防就是在火場裡面在台灣有需要人民有需要協助的時候他們都第一時間第一線能夠趕到現場來救人救災這樣子的每一個這不分政黨不分顏色警察跟消防在全國的各基層來照顧我們全國的國人來守護我們的治安 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2417.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2428.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
包括連詐騙案這些都是警察在全面的爭氣所以在這種情況之下立法院三讀通過竟然行政院卓榮泰院長帶頭在毀憲亂政違法亂紀 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2433.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2462.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
然後陳淑芝這個主計長也配合演出這個幾乎是踐踏立法院踐踏立法院所以我們在這裡除了對卓榮泰嚴正譴責我覺得立法院應該要有一個起碼的態度要告發這個卓榮泰違法亂紀不然的話永遠永無止境立法院通過的法律還有卓榮泰他個人來決定要不要執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2463.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2489.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
全世界沒有一個國家的國會是這樣子更沒有一位國家的行政院長是像卓榮泰這樣子毀憲亂政違法亂紀所以呢今天我們為什麼坐在這裡討論如果國家的隔奎可以肆意妄為來踐踏國會踐踏全民的立法權我們不只要譴責 一定要告發一定要告發另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2491.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2510.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我想民眾黨也有一些看法因為民眾黨提出這個退回總預算但我在這裡表達此風不可漲如果立法院持續的對這種事情在姑息下去的話永無寧日所以我們在這裡主張跟民眾黨一致退回這個總預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2513.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2538.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
謝謝國民黨副總召發言在台灣民眾黨發言之前我想先介紹一下今天我們列席的各位閣員剛才少了這個一個環節首先我們行政院主席處的陳主席長 歡迎您再來行政院人事總處的蘇人事長 歡迎您第三 內政部劉部長 歡迎您第四 財政部莊部長 歡迎您國防部伯父部長 歡迎您請坐好 請台灣民眾黨團發言民進黨團請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2544.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2570.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
行政院長周榮泰無法無天一再的違法亂紀把自己當成太上皇今年這已經是第二次了去年法定預算原住民的進法補償條例還有公糧收購他編都不編導致去年一整年整個政局的動亂立法院通過的法定預算他都不遵守今年竟然又來一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2572.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2595.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
金人加薪每個月一萬塊錦銷退休金的所得替代率提高為八成到現在一毛錢都不變他把自己當成太上皇那立法院就關門好啦立法院每次辛辛苦苦呼應民意你看每次要重大這個修法之前做了民調然後呼應民意然後整個立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2597.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2624.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
長打長時間的這個審查跟刪讀過後他一筆就勾銷欸製造這個對立而且去年一次今年又來一次所以我們明確的這次我們提案退回總預算退回總預算趕快從邊別再踐踏我們的經景銷第二個我還明確的告發我對著法務部部長明確的告發中泰這個不是只有跨過的憲政的紅線他也觸犯了憲法的瀆職罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2626.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2647.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
他苛刻了我們金人的薪水苛刻了警消人員的退休金這是明顯的一個賭職罪所以我們一方面退回總預算案趕快法定預算該給金人的薪水該給警消人員的所得替代率趕快補足要不然的話退回另外我們要追究周榮泰的刑事責任賭職罪謝謝台灣民眾黨團發言接下來請民進黨團請發言聽了兩個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2656.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2673.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
國民黨民眾黨的代表的所言只有一句話 你不只氣又壯一派服務員 到底是誰在迴遷亂任 這是什麼呼籲民意根本一派服務員嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2674.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2692.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
已經這個違憲的部分總統在院長已經提出事件了你們今天還在這裡自我在那邊嗨我不知道在那邊嗨什麼東西現在是提呼籲案那接下來要退回那我們也面對這個問題啊所以今天要講的是講一個道理 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2694.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2695.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
謝謝民進黨柯總召的發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2724.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2731.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
請問各黨團需要不需要二輪發言要發言請舉手陳昭志委員你一直看著我你要不要發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2733.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2761.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
請既然是本黨的提案每個都二人發言請我必須說台灣不管是三權分立還有五權分立民進黨在野的時候是說要三權分立要把它考卷廢掉那也沒做就算了那我們回到憲政的基本精神現在是三權分立民眾對於這個司法權部分的質疑就已經很大你隨便做個民調就你們自己內部都知道這個司法權也形同這行政權了 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2762.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2778.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
大概只有百分之三、四十的信任度了我們再回到現在實質上就是行政跟立法如果立法院通過的法案 三讀通過照這個程序做管的通過的法案甚至總統府 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2780.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2796.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
總統這邊已經公告生效的如果還不會去履行的話我們立法院就不見了立法院就被消滅了當初主張的三權現在剩一權了我們只要行政院我們乾脆立法院都不要設立了 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2797.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2822.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以基本上我覺得談道理是這樣談道理談憲政也是站得住腳所以我們希望就是說趕快回頭吧趕快把應該要編列的東西要追加的東西趕快把它按照三讀通過的內容去執行那我們也就會很盡快有效率的來完成該做的部分 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2823.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2851.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
謝謝臺灣民眾黨團陳昭志委員發言接下來請羅志強主席請發言謝謝院長謝謝院長要懇切一點尊敬的院長還有我們尊敬的柯建民大法官非常高興聽你的那個憲法的那個四憲的高見真的是醍醐灌頂 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2853.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2871.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
這是連小學生都不如啊釋憲程序 柯大法官我想你一定知道嘛今天卓榮泰提釋憲 對不對那什麼情況之下你可以把法律的效果駁掉第一個 緊急處分嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2872.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2894.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
請問我們柯大法官你主持大法官會議有做緊急處分了嗎顯然沒有沒有情況之下你不能凍結法律所以法律有效而且不要搞錯囉這法律是賴清德總統公布的法律所以柯大法官你在打臉賴清德總統第二個什麼樣情況之下你可以把立法院法律把它駁掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2895.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2911.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
就是大法官做出違憲的一個判決那想請問柯建民大法官你主持的大法官會議已經把這個關於軍人待遇條例跟我們警察人士的條例已經是判定違憲了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2913.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2935.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
沒有嘛 所以柯大法官我直接告訴你啦就是說不要拿小學生等級的大法官的那個解釋沒有沒有 讓你去說明我是很敬重你啦所以我覺得你在這邊當總召辛苦了啦所以不如趕快去爭取大法官提名因為你的憲法學真的是獨步全球非常厲害 了不起 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2936.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2958.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
最後還是要講一句話啦 說實在話這件事跟朝野政黨的政治立場無關嘛軍人保家衛國 警察維護治安 消防打火弟兄在火場出生入死他們難道不值得今天我們民進黨政府給他們一個合理的待遇跟合理的退休保障嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2960.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2984.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
其實我很訝異啦因為我覺得當我們提起所謂軍人待遇的提高跟警消退休保障的加強的時候我本來認為一賴慶德總統對不對這麼愛戴軍人這麼愛戴警消應該會同意可是沒有關你立法過程一路反對已經讓我非常詫異了但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2985.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3008.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
等到我們法律都通過了 現在又出了一個偉大的柯建民大法官拿出小學生的憲法解釋學那我真是覺得 對不起景瀟也對不起我們的軍人現在兩岸之間 確實有戰爭風險那是賴清德最偉大的政績那這種情況之下 軍人實質上是承擔生命風險在保家衛國的 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3009.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3024.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那个军人不是说这笔钱要怎么样这是我们起码该给我们的国军将士的一个尊重尊敬警校更不用讲每次警校牺牲生命我都看到我们的民进党官员排排站去攻击啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3025.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3047.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
結果今天公祭明天旺祭所以真的拜託今天為什麼我們這種預算現在是處在退回的狀態其實真的是希望我們的柯大法官還有我們的卓大院長賴大總統能夠把警消跟國軍放在心上趕快把預算編起來 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3048.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3063.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
好 謝謝羅主席等一下台灣民進黨二輪發言之後要請陳主席長表達意見請陳主席長準備一下我們現在請民進黨二輪發言有一句話叫搬門弄虎 你聽懂嗎羅志強 你這塊料要選國民黨黨主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3068.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3089.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
難怪很多都看好了你再撐一下很快就要揭曉了你根本在幫我弄 你懂得要怎麼修你說叫我去徵起大法官大法官曾經案件法早就規定是我修的立法委員不得非大法官過去立法委員有做大法官案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3090.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3112.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
按例我們以前同事的父親當大法官 竟然當大法官了 從議委 經濟議委當大法官我在國民黨執行的時候就已經修掉了 立法委員因為立法委員有政治立場 沒有辦法中立嘛所以立法委員不得不當大法官 這是被我修掉了所以你先了解法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3113.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3128.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
你不懂得憲法不懂得法律那這與服務員萬一一般講話雖然你不及輕又壯但是何其心虛啊第二個有關於憲法訴訟你都知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3129.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3150.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
信仰輸送法不管是哪一版本信仰輸送法你現在去申請事件的時候第一個就先有三個大法官先審查假如全部認為沒有意見就受制定全部認為該退就退目前為止你們所提的事件全部被接受所以代表你們都違憲了 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3152.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3170.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
只是現在人數不足沒有辦法但他要補足的時候馬上就很清楚所以這個事情非常清楚明白所以不要在這裡慢慢弄糊在這裡再度的警示你一下那有關於金人 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3172.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3175.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷警銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3188.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3209.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
不承認他們的工作辛勞本來警校就有圍牢嘛那金人坦白講金人他的待遇已經法治化了照你現在的做法的話那又下市的話他的薪水馬上加3萬就是到7萬多了加3萬你搞清楚一點再講嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3212.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3232.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
所以今天我們在這裡講因為現在是內總計算是提呼籲即便將來要退為我們只能尊重有關的後續請自行負責好 謝謝請陳主席長發言完畢之後我就進行裁決好嗎 麻煩請陳主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3238.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3255.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
院長還有各總召還有各委員好主要是今年來就是我們已經有多次對軍公教調整待遇並在114年度追加預算中也納編國軍的待遇所以政府對照顧警校和國軍已經不遺餘力 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3256.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3281.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
那所以本身呢這個部分我們在114年度追加預算中也那邊提升國軍待遇所需要的經費59.5億那所以這個部分軍人待遇調整和警察人員人事條例這個部分呢因為這個條例當初通過的時候並沒有事先籌措裁員那第二個他一憲政結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3282.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3312.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
要如果說這個部分因為考量不同公務人員之間生物間公平性和退伍制度的橫平性所以我們經過討論以後行政院決定同時向大法官申請釋憲並依釋憲結果進行必要調整必要時也會追溯回補所以我期盼在釋憲過程中能夠回歸正常憲政體制符合行政院編列預算立法院審議預算的一個憲法精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3312.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3325.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
以上一個說明陳主席長說明得非常清楚謝謝主席長的說明那我跟各位黨團幹部來建議一下我做一個宣告我想我們這第三題 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3326.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3347.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
現在已經掉到第三題我們把第四題掉到第二題所以我們現在中央政府總預算案現在第三題我們大家黨團意見顯然南轅北轍立場意見完全不一所以總預算案的處理涉及到行政立法兩院互動非常非常的重大 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3350.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3363.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
因此我們現在國會主要是三大黨大家都是在互相的討論也好 攻防也好 制約也好等等那這一件案子我要請各黨團繼續溝通是不是咧 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3368.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3390.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
每個黨都有自己的黨部自己領導的方式也有自己的黨主席是不是要大家一起來自己回黨團回去跟自己的黨部來溝通一下這個案子因為這個案子知識體大所以我在做這個建議宣告的時候我的心理壓力也很大那我想我們到時候再找時間再來進一步溝通 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3391.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3420.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那我們就先把今天這個第三題我們就暫緩 找時間我們再來溝通這樣大家可以接受嗎好 謝謝大家那我們現在開始進第三題 我們就暫時就待溝通好了好 我們現在進入今天的第四個題目就是財政收支劃分法部分修正草案由國民黨黨團提請國民黨表達意見其他列席的官員請離席 謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3424.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3434.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
謝謝院長 還是謝謝我們尊敬的柯大法官我還是要引用我最尊敬的賴大總統的名言中央不要集權又集錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3436.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3463.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
財化法這個要修正然後能夠還權跟還錢於地方落實我們憲政上的地方自治那是賴大總統多年放在心中的崇高理想目標可是現在我們看到在財化法的改革跟修正的過程當中我覺得民進黨是背叛了賴清德總統當年的神聖的執制跟理念 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3464.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3492.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那現在我至少看到一件事情啦我看到行政院方面說他說這個裁劃法的部分他們有考慮要提出院版沒關係 亡羊補牢 時猶未晚那我們裁劃法修正這麼多的時間那個行政院實際上一直當路人甲那我希望第一個裁劃法的部分盡量也有行政院意見進來把它加以完善 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3493.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3494.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
謝謝國民黨團羅書記長的發言接下來台灣民眾黨團請表達意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3501.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3523.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
採政收支劃分法其實三讀通過了以後636億本來我們要給地方政府的一般補助款上次我們表達過意見事實上針對中央政府的總預算案我們三讀通過就有關於統三的那個是要三中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3524.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3543.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
政府所屬的機關結果我們的行政院就膽大妄為真的是膽大妄為竟然去苛扣地方政府的一般部主管所以後來透過追加預算的方式我向台灣民眾黨團的立場表達得非常清楚我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3544.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3567.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
沒有辦法接受左榮泰這樣毀憲亂政的亂搞但是沒有辦法肉票在人家手上我們聽到了地方政府他們的聲音被魯人勒贖缺了636億最佳的就先付了贖金讓這些地方政府可以好好的施政 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3569.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3587.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
回到就有關於財政收支劃分法的部分就是提出來的法案把過去可以讓行政機關上下其手的空間本來以為沒有需要訂到這麼細因為大家都遵守法律好好做就好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3588.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3612.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
他沒有想到找到一點縫隙就東轉西轉的所以針對有關於財政收支劃分法的部分相關的修正我們基本上認為把現在有的一些縫隙把它補起來那明定的更清楚那讓有關於地方的財政可以更健全這件事情我們是樂觀啟程 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3614.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3642.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
至於說剛剛中國國民黨黨團有提到說希望有行政院的版本這件事情我們向來的立場就是樂觀其成只不過說有的時候也等得很痛苦相關的法案常常是等不到行政院的版本立法院也不能永遠在等他們不過如果能夠盡速的提出不是壞事如果他們不願意提出的話在國會裡面的立法程序該怎麼做就怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3644.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3646.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
剛才我聽了半天羅志強委員 我不知道是主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3662.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3678.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
講半天我不知道你要講什麼今天你們提出財化法的一個修正案尤其這30條到37條那這在整個財化法的結構完全的變更是一個非常重大問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3680.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3708.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
既然你不談你修正你今天是提案的你要談你提案內容我為什麼這樣主張這是我的主張是怎麼樣包括哪一條要修哪一條不修你要把你這個版本裡面講清楚啊結果聽了半天還不講是不懂還是不知道自己修什麼那對我一句話很難行為叫等M版 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3709.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3718.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
既然是等驗滿的話那我們就就應該停下來了這大家要有明確的路請指點民心好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3720.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3739.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
麻煩請財政部現在列席的閣員也跟大家黨團幹部報告一下有財政部莊部長 歡迎您有組織處的陳組織長 歡迎您有國家發展委員會的郭專門委員 歡迎您有法務部的廖參事 歡迎您那能不能請莊部長來 您請做個說明好嗎 謝謝您 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3741.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3755.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
主席還有各位委員我想財化法是非常重要的涉及到中央和地方之間財政資源的分配也涉及到各地方政府之間相互的分配所以我們一直主張認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3756.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3775.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
要有充分的溝通詳細的討論那我想去年12月20號立法院三讀通過以後的財化法那我們也在115年中央統籌分配稅款的分配上也依照新版的財化法做了一個分配那另外其實在這一次財化法的修正裡面我們看到了有一些狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3776.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3803.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
第一個就是說中央的裁員大幅的一個縮減但是市權沒有同時做分配以及地方的各縣市政府之間的水平分配的部分也有一些問題違背了均衡區域發展的目的那所以現在我們也已經在做裁划法的修正的版本那這個部分上次我們也都打清楚的說明我們會在今年底前提出院版的裁划法我們會針對裁划法做整體的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3804.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3830.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
通盤的考量跟做修正以上的說明莊部長現在有一個重點問題就是三個黨團都很關切行政院版本所謂年底以前送就在12月31號之前會送到我們立法院來嗎我們目前來說都已經下個禮拜二也會再邀再次邀集地方政府來討論會上那9月13號的時候我們院長也已經跟各地方政府的首長在院裡面都聽取他們的意見是的 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3832.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3855.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
國民黨團 台灣民眾黨現在財政部莊部長說現在是十月中旬在十二月以前行政院版會送來請各位兩個黨團再繼續表達意見請國民黨團副總召請謝謝謝謝院長今天難得看到柯總召又復活了大罷免的柯總召又回來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3856.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3878.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
對本黨主席品頭論足這個實在是對本黨相當不敬我們要特別強調一個事情我們要特別強調財化法去年12月20號修正完畢之後並經過完整的法律程序包括行政院提出了復議復議之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3881.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3902.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
在立法院也再次做了處分處分完之後做完決定以後然後還請總統府公告公告之後今年開始實施當中有一個非常清楚的環節就是地方政府的一般性補助款不得低於前一年 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3904.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3931.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
結果這個財政部跟主席跟主席長這個乾坤大挪移竟然把地方的一般性補助款課扣平均課扣都大概二分之一現在改成申請制以後這個行政院的權力更大這本來就是法定要給地方政府的補助款而且很多是用在教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3932.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3961.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
用在孩童營養午餐用在基礎建設這是非常明確的弱勢輔助我想財政部主計總署都有很清楚的資料但是他們假裝視而不見現在所提出給地方政府的理由尤其荒謬他們提什麼樣的荒謬他說今年統籌分配款給你比較多了你自行調節自行想辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3963.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3988.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那等於我們就立法就不用立了統籌分配款增加是讓地方有更多的自主財源能夠落實中華民國憲法保障的地方自治讓地方有更多的力量更及時的來做好地方該有的建設該有的教育該有的社會福利該有的基礎建設都可以盡快來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3990.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4003.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
所以去年在修法的過程當中我們很尊重是哪一個部分計畫型補助的部分我們沒有去特別的約束沒有特別約束的原因計畫型補助如果按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4005.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4032.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
現行的遊戲規則由全國22縣市政府去競爭然後得到計畫型的補助這個我們還是尊重相關的部會行政院我們都尊重但是一般性的補助款這個是法律有明文規定它用在什麼地方這是絕對不能苛扣的但是主計總署告訴各縣市政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4034.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4054.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
平均一般性補助款扣掉大概二分之一以上扣掉二分之一以上竟然說可以用統籌分配款來補那等於就沒有修法了所以現在財政部主要是足跡總署跟各縣市政府在玩捉迷藏 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4056.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4081.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
所以我覺得中央政府冥頑不靈還是用這種雕蟲小技不斷的在蠱惑這個社會我要再次的強調去年12月20號財務法的修正案是依照中華民國憲法落實地方自治這是其一其二更重要的不管是在野時期的賴清德市長陳菊市長 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4086.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4109.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
還是蔡英文主席呼天搶地多次嚴正的爭取才有辦法要修正不要中央齊全又齊全要給地方那我們今天本於尊重對於計劃型補助計劃型補助已經充分的尊重行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4110.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4130.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
你要怎麼樣評比你要怎麼樣競爭型來做計劃型補助我們都尊重但是舉例就好了我們所在的花蓮縣政府一般性補助款剛剛好砍了一半從接近100億現在剩51億計劃型補助款猶有可物從54億變成3億 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4141.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4165.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
那等於我們的修法完全無效他把你的一般性補助款砍對半計劃性補助款幾乎沒收所以在立法院我們修的法對這些主計長他完全他就只聽嘛我們很相信嘛他只聽他的老闆嘛老闆叫他怎麼樣做就怎麼樣做完全無視於憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4167.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4195.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
所以我們的告發人其中之一就是陳淑芝主席長違法亂憲所以我們要這裡特別強調不要知法玩法把立法院通過的過去民進黨在野不斷地大聲疾呼中央不要集錢集權一定要修法修財政收支花門法我們修完之後卻得到你們這種方式來待遇讓地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4198.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4205.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
幾幾戶都要拿統籌分配款來補東補西到處補更可笑的是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4208.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4231.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
什麼賴總統卓榮泰院長講什麼統籌分配款事實上公視有錯誤去年12月20號修正完當天晚上的快報就出來了中央社把各縣市增加的款項都很清楚的明列出來而且很清楚他們就是跟財政部要的資料財政部去年底會算然後今年說他不會算 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4232.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4248.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
這是蠻好笑的一件事情中央社的版本各縣市增加多少大家朗朗上口熟上都有然後到今年八月突然賴總統說他看不懂突然行政院各部位都說看不懂那去年中央社四川的資料哪裡來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4249.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4273.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
就是財政部試算 按照這個公式他說分配不完有300多億那就持續分配 分配到完而已嘛就這麼簡單 然後說立法院沒有授權突然又尊重立法院了 說立法院沒有授權突然又變成立法院沒有授權立法院通過了法律都不執行 突然又講立法院沒有授權何其荒唐的政府 何其搬門弄法 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4276.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4302.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那真的是啊 可惡啊我們覺得一定要依法辦理好 謝謝國民黨團副總召發言接下來我們請台灣民眾黨團發言後民進黨請準備好 請好的財政啊 就要像那個不倒翁啊它下面要是很穩定的你推就推不倒結果我們台灣的政府啊一直出現頭重腳輕中央把錢拿得很多 擠錢又擠錢常常就會倒掉所以從三十幾年前 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4304.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4321.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
民進黨就提說一定要修才化法我們現在最資深的應該是院長嘛院長82年來當你們同時82年進來你們那時候就提說要修國民黨也說要修民進黨也說要修才化法結果民進黨根本就騙人啊到現在剛好在講版本什麼12月才要提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4322.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4338.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
之前賴清德當行政院長的時候就說要休了他當台南市的市長還罵說這是一個惡法一定要休你們休到哪裡去了騙很大 對不起台灣人民那現在更嚴重的好不容易休過了我覺得財政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4339.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4362.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
跟主計數真的非常的可惡就像土匪一樣搶地方政府的這個財源而且連營養午餐的錢欸你們都砍像台中明年度你應該給的這個地方補助款這個捷運60億給人家砍到剩下1.6億你這樣怎麼對得起台中的市民對得起地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4363.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4379.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我去精算了一下我們這次過了這個統籌分配稅款之後明年大概要下放到地方的4100多億結果民進黨幹了什麼事情行政院幹了什麼事情他把計畫型補助款2900多億砍到刀刀劍骨只剩下308億 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4382.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4407.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
計劃型補助款包括營養午餐那些都是最基層的小孩子 年長的人基礎建設的錢你怎麼可以砍到兩千多億呢而且這筆錢以前你在七月份的時候就合訂就已經給地方政府了他編成稅入已經送到議會去審查了你叫各個縣市政府現在怎麼執行他的預算議會怎麼審這個預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4410.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4419.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
完全違法亂機 怎麼亂成一套了第二個也受到嚴重抗議的不只是計劃性補助款被砍得剩下308億砍掉2100多億剛剛我們總裁講那個636億那時候已經全民抗議了結果現在砍2000多億第二個 同樣在這個場合我們在討論追加預算的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4432.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4457.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
我們曾經做了一個草野的共同的這個連署當天通過了 連柯總知道你那天還有簽名喔你們的黨團山長都是有簽名的 講什麼不能夠把一般預算 一般的補助款改成是要審查的 變成計畫型的補助款結果你們現在第一個你們砍掉的計畫型補助款砍那麼多第二個你們還把一般性的補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4459.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4471.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
變計劃型要審耶什麼叫一百千的補助款很多就是法定預算嘛那東西怎麼能砍呢所以說完全斷了他完全違法亂記了所以我一方面嚴正的抗議一方面第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4473.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4490.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
財政部也不要再等什麼12月 趕快提出來而且要矯正我剛剛講的你現在我們財發法好不容易呼應了全民各個縣市政府要落實地方制照顧每個這個民眾了這也是你民進黨長久的這個訴求這樣民進黨是什麼一代不如一代變老煩電了你們怎麼可以對不起人民然後你們現在這段時間又違法亂紀像土委一樣砍這個地方政府的計劃性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4500.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4515.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
我這裡不只要提出新的案子我剛講這個兩大問題把該有的計劃型補助款還給地方政府而且要落實一般補助款裡面是法定預算不能夠再審查好 謝謝台灣民眾黨團發言接下來請民進黨鍾嘉斌委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4518.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4537.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
好 謝謝主席由於今天我們協商的標的是財政收支劃分法國民黨所提案的版本到現在已經介於可以提付院會處理的時程所以今天朝野協商要討論的是要不要在明天或之後的院會進行二三讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4538.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4566.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
那但是呢剛剛我們在第一輪的發言當中因為羅委員代表國民黨羅委員說他們是要等到行政院的版本因此就產生了一個程序的問題到底我們今天協商的標的是要處理程序上什麼時候來處理財政收支劃分法的二三讀過程二三讀還是要實質的去討論財政收支劃分法各黨團的意見如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4566.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4587.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
不過因為第一輪的發言當中我們不清楚國民黨的意思如何因為他並沒有做提案說明所以我們以為是要處理程序不過在第二輪發言當中副總召又很清楚的表達了國民黨黨版他們財政措施劃分法的內容那麼民眾黨黨團也表達了類似的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4588.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4611.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那在參酌之前待會我們主席長也會表達那麼剛好呢本席剛好都在財政委員會那我想就從實體的內容來討論一下財政收支劃分法未來在進行討論的時候民進黨黨團的態度為何首先先破題財政收支劃分法很清楚的有收 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4611.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4634.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
有資然後他是處理如何劃分簡單講我們國家的財政的收入要怎麼分配到中央跟地方這是收入部分要怎麼分配資是指說中央跟地方各有職權中央有中央必須執行的業務地方有地方必須執行的業務根據中央跟地方各自分配到的收入 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4634.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4661.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
去执行这些支出的时候发生了有没有收支不足或收支剩余的情况那我们透过一个机制去调节所以我们刚刚谈的部分有分成两大部分收入如何分配在于统筹分配税款当中国民党在去年做出了大幅的调整中央马上就短少了4165亿的收入但是接下来 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4663.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4677.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
在上次的財政收場的修正當中並沒有去同時檢討市權的分配大幅的預算 大幅的收入分配給地方但是中央跟地方在執行的業務的分配上並沒有同時一併的續名 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4678.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4695.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那麼我們再來看一看接下來我們要談的一般性補助跟計劃型補助其實為什麼會有這兩方面呢因為長期以來 誠如各黨團所言財政收支劃分法目前過去舊法的現況是中央分配到的收入比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4696.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4720.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
多於他要做的事情有餘而地方分配到的收入比較少造成他要執行他應該負擔的業務上仍有不足所以過去不管朝野各政黨再交替執政再朝再野都認為財政收支劃分法的收入部分要重新衡量到過去以來地方的財政一致不足的情況之下應該多分配一些給地方以補足他的財政 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4721.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4746.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
但是在還沒有修正之前我們看到了一般性補助款跟計劃型補助款就是建立在中央的收入有餘的情況之下在支應給地方政府一般性的補助地方政府依著他財力能力的不同同樣要做那些事情台北市綽綽有餘屏東縣深感不足所以我們在一般性補助的時候就制定了一個規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4748.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4763.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
根據各地方政府不同的財力能力我們中央就從統籌調度的方式給予他必要的支出所必要的收入分配給他那麼至於計劃型補助這又更不同了計劃型補助它不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4764.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4785.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
各地方政府的財力跟所執行事務的差距計畫性補助是中央基於調節營需同樣的每個地方政府都有想做的事情如果這些計畫得到了中央的肯認也符合中央跟地方各城鄉均衡發展的需要地方政府以計畫方式提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4785.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4798.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
中央政府是其對於調節營需還有均衡地發展的需要我們正系計畫的內容給予支持計畫完成了就表達了讓各地方政府的城鄉差距縮減 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4800.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4827.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
如果城鄉差距不能在這個計劃型補助之後能夠縮減需要必須執行的那麼這個計劃型補助就會繼續執行所以一般性補助跟計劃型補助完全是建立在地方政府執行它所應盡的次權卻它收入的財源收入不足以制定的情況下由中央來調節但是我們在去年的財化法修法後中央大幅的把財政收入交給地方之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4828.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4853.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
造成的結果呢是地方應該要承接更多的事務的治理費用但是我們看到了在同一個修法當中又把一般型補助給它鎖死表示說本來一般型補助是建立在地方財政收入不足的情況之下才需要中央政府來進行一般型補助現在地方的財政收入已經大幅增加的情況之下仍然要維持過去的一般型補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4854.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4883.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
就是造成了一個嚴重的偏差因此在明年的中央政府總預算當中我們主計部門根據中央政府必須執行中央應付的責任所需要的裁員他選擇了依照法律新版的裁划規定將統籌分配稅大幅的撥給地方之後那地方的一般性補助又不能縮減的情況之下我們將計畫性補助呢予以縮減讓中央維持人有的財政能力來支應他必須的支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4883.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4899.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
那這樣的一個財化法已經是支離破碎了完全背離了調節營需的功能也背離了中央地方市權分配之後來具以分配財政收入的一個準據然而我們看到國民黨的新版財化法結果呢它主要的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4900.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4920.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
要恢復舊版舊制裁判法的補治制度它不只要將一般性的補助款來恢復到舊制裁判法當中明定各縣市政府的一般性的補助金額它對於計劃型補助還要進一步的要求不得低於過去的一個比例而不得過去10年的財力 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4922.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4946.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
集市的差別過去的財力集市在經歷了去年的統籌分配稅大幅的分配給地方之後財力的集市已經大幅的變更了而國民黨黨版的修法呢又把這樣的財力集市要恢復到舊版的財法的情況真的是完全無視於自己在統籌分配稅款大幅的將收入交給地方所造成的變動 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4947.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4965.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
然而更嚴重的對於計劃型補助很多都是屬於跨年度延續型的計劃這些計劃型補助應該根據地方政府所提的計劃的執行情況由中央在依其實際的需求來調節但是國民黨版的裁判法又加上了說 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4967.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4989.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
這個非地方政府同意中央政府不得去調整就完全喪失了計畫性補助核實自應的精神簡單講也就是說父母給子女的零用金未經子女同意之前你不得變更那麼照說這樣的一個零用金的給予應該是其需要做調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4990.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5019.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
最後呢財力集市與救濟相同的財化法呢這個部分呢剛已經說明了所以如果就實體內容來談國民黨團所提的財政收支方法仍然延續著上次修法的一大弊病他只顧收入完全不付支出只顧將中央過去所長有的統籌分配稅款大幅的交給地方又強制用法律限制了一般型補助款的保障金額現在又甚至又進一步的將 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5020.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5047.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
調節盈虧的計劃型補助款的金額限時在過去的金額上面那這種情況之下這個財化法根本無法運作因此就國民黨再次修法的財化法我們表達凡是一個法剛通過後就要再修通常有兩種情況一個是上市修法過程當中擁有未盡之處有些很不錯的改革沒有放進去所以要進一步的完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5048.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5064.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
另外一種情況是上次修的亂七八糟要來補漏洞在我們看來目前的國民黨所提的裁判法就是上次的修法亂七八糟犯了很多低級的錯誤但是修正這些低級錯誤的方式是用上次的邏輯更加惡化上次的錯誤的結果於是整個是飲鴆止渴 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5069.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5091.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
根本沒有能力去改變解決上次裁判法修法的弊病所以我們在這裡民進黨黨團嚴厲的提出對國民黨即將提出來的新版裁判法的修正完全不能解決自己過去造成的錯誤而且還加重了自己過去作戶的嚴重後果期期以為不可我們也希望社會明瞭希望選民我們的老闆國民的納稅義務錢應該要得到合理的分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5095.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5116.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
用在中央跟地方各級政府他所因心因辦的事務之上而不是這樣子因為延續前面的錯誤錯上加錯將是溢於湖底我們深表遺憾好 謝謝鍾嘉斌委員的發言我請主席長請發言完羅委員請準備好不好我們請主席長表達一下意見 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5119.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5139.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
這個部分就是115年度中央已經按新資的財劃法規定來大幅釋出統籌分配稅款4165億元那這個部分呢但是卻並沒有並同檢討事權的一個分配然後又要求一般性補助款維持修正施行前一年的預算編列數 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5140.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5160.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
那这个部分中央按新制财务法分钱以后现在国民党又提出拟据财务法修正案要求恢复旧制的财务法的一个补助制度要求一般性补助和旧制财务法相同要明定各地方政府的一般性补助款的金额 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5161.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5175.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
不得少於修正實施前一年度的預算數這將擴大城鄉的一個差距加劇負責越負 平整為改善問題以財化法和地方制度法的一個立法精神為輔 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5176.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5203.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
那再來第二個他要求計劃型補助款補助比率不得低於過去10年同財力集赤的一個縣市同類型的一個計劃的一個平均值那計劃型補助是政策或業務目的的一個達成以後應該逐步調降補助比率或退場不再辦理別人要求保障相關計劃的一個補助比率實在是不合理第三個他要求核定後的跨年和分級 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5204.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5228.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
年度的延續性計畫補助款非經地方政府同意不得任意終止或變更補助金額將大幅限制中央和各機關資源有效的配置無法依業務需要時序來調整排擠中央的一個施政經費第四個要求財力及次與救治財化法相同將無法合理反映各市縣實際財政能力 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5229.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5256.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
並進了影響地方所能貨配的一個補助額度以上一個報告好 謝謝主席長的報告那個國民黨團跟台灣民眾黨團請問一下剛才莊部長所提出來願板在年底之前要送到立法院沒關係 就兩個黨團能否接受請表達一下意見那我們再一次發言請國民黨團副總召發言我覺得如果到今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5258.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5282.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
陳淑芝主計長還在用話術欺騙全國國人而且你又不擅說謊當然從進了賴團隊以後就開始學會說謊鍾嘉賓本來就是準備要選縣長因為他太會講話後來沒有選上我要特別讓各位了解一下不要在這裡欺騙國人不要砍東砍西 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5284.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5305.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
拿去你南邊再補上自己的東西這一次投資分配款修正案差了可能4000億要給地方然後他又先苛購300多億出他不會分配第二計畫型補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5308.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5317.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
他縮編了2000多億縮編了2000多億該給地方的錢縮編了2000多億所以這4000億統籌分配款給地方先苛扣了300多 剩3700億然後再縮編了計劃型補助2000多億 最後剩1000多億1000多億再把 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5332.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5355.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
2500億的一般性補助款又苛扣了一半等於修法完全沒有修剛剛不斷地在狡辯說私權沒有分配 私權怎麼沒有分配當時是授權行政院所以他幾乎把計畫型補助通通扣光了 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5356.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5374.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
就全部交給地方你自己要去做怎麼會沒有事權分配你們真的也說瞎話怎麼沒有事權分配你把該給地方的計劃型補助款通通都沒有了26700億現在剩多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5378.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5401.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
就已經告訴地方這些以後是你地方自己來做事權分配都已經分配了計劃型補助當時我們就已經尊重行政院去年修法沒有動計劃型補助就是尊重你就你一口氣搬走兩千多億一般性補助是法定的不能動的包括營養午餐在內你既然直接砍掉一半不給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5402.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5429.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
所以七扣八扣修的統籌分配款讓地方能夠有能來做事不用一天到晚寫計畫到行政院去競爭能夠第一時間來執行人民的需求這本來就符合憲法要快速的來執行地方該有的民情 民需能夠盡快來做結果四千億 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5431.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5456.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
新版裁法4千億分給地方你先搞了一個300多億假裝看不懂持續分配就好了突然又尊重立法院說沒有授權你持續分配所以你不能分配克扣了這一條再過來計畫性補助幾乎把這個科目從行政院已經廢掉了一次拿走2000多億沒有了怎麼沒有事權分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5458.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5486.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
你們都住在這裡 都沒有帶耳朵來嗎本席講這麼清楚 怎麼沒有事權分配一般性補助款又再砍一半怎麼沒有事權分配以前斑斑喝鮮奶 現在不是通知了嗎地方政府自己搞啊 沒有啦要吃有機餐 全國都一致 鮮奶都沒有啦地方政府自己搞啊 都不補助啦 怎麼沒有事權分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5488.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5501.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
不要在這裡欺瞞大眾嘛不要老是用話術嘛不要在這裡亂講嘛計劃性補助款被公然砍了兩千多億怎麼沒有私權分配一般性補助款再砍了一半怎麼沒有私權分配不要在這裡欺騙國人嘛好 謝謝第四題我們財化法修正案各黨團意見不一我們沒有辦法達成共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5518.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5518.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
現在散會 |