| IVOD_ID |
16955 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16955 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-16 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-23-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
23 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
交通委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-16T08:41:14+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-16T12:51:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
04:09:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/f826c2e4afc302dda212a47f970ca7032449b096c75737d7b5dbf79f23f633bbbf3cb92bc693ce245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-16T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期交通委員會第3次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。
二、邀請交通部部長陳世凱、衛生福利部次長及台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長史哲列席就「高鐵公司推動寧靜車廂所引發正反意見,政策上路近一個月的成效及後續宣導因應」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
【10月15日及16日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:41:14 - 12:51:00 |
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交通委員會現在繼續開會首先現在介紹我們今天列席的官員國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信德謝謝副主任委員何慶生專門委員陳天賜專門委員專任委員張文環專任委員李延年以及姚承安主任秘書 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1168.658 |
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1198.014 |
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還有我們林佩達執行長所以今天早上比較嚴肅一點點大家是不是一起我們國家運輸安全委員會一個掌聲好不好好謝謝來再來是交通部政務次長武聖元謝謝鐵道局楊振軍局長衛生福利部常務次長莊仁祥以及社會及家庭署主任秘書田基武 |
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1199.687 |
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1220.83 |
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台灣高速鐵路股份有限公司董事長史澤以及台灣高鐵運務處副總經理楊小天台灣高鐵營運處副總經理陳信雄還有台灣高鐵公共事務處副總經理周恆無 |
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1223.592 |
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1247.682 |
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謝謝好那這也是另外一個這個專案報告我們是不是一起我們自己給自己一個還有台鐵總經理馮生輝謝謝馮生輝來這也是另外專案報告我們自己給自己一個加油打氣掌聲一下啦好謝謝介紹在場委員我們邱若驊委員好 |
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1253.41 |
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1278.858 |
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本日會議進行國家運輸安全調查委員會列席報告業務概況及交通部衛福部台灣高鐵公司就高鐵公司推動寧靜車廂所引發正反意見政策上路一個月的成效及後續宣導因應專題報告現在請列席機關報告首先請運安會林信德主任委員進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1290.312 |
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1309.729 |
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主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好今天非常榮幸列席貴委會向主席及各位委員報告應安會的業務重點請請各位委員不吝給予指導與建議本會主要職長重大運輸事故之調查調查範圍涵蓋航空水路鐵道及公路 |
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1310.41 |
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1332.787 |
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透過系統性的調查 患者發覺可能噪音及安全風險提出改善建議以防止類似事件再度發生 相關業務重點分數如下第一 重大運輸事故的調查有關這個調查進度方面本會自一百零八年八一號成立期間 |
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1334.561 |
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1355.521 |
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運輸事故立案共三百一十八件 兩百八十八件已經結案相關的細項說明如下 航空目前為止還有三件在調查中共發布八十八項安全改善建議 水路還有十一件調查中共發布三百二十四項安全改善建議 鐵道 |
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1357.563 |
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1381.536 |
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上有五件調查中共發布兩百二十七項安全改善建議公路上有九件調查中共發布一百九十五項安全改善建議現在包括近期媒體關注的重大輸出事故今年八月十三號 優比樹航空預叫波音七四七八貨機從香港國際機場 |
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1408.657 |
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國養桃園國際機場落地的時候發動機觸地的事故本案屬於第五期重大航空事故預計於十二月發布事實資料報告明年的八月完成最終調查報告關五二今年九月二十四日台鐵第四二三次新自強號列車由新左營站出發開往樹林站 |
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1409.881 |
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1436.775 |
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在山里站跟在台東的山里站跟陸野站中陣線儲櫃這個事故是屬於第一級重大鐵道事故 預計明年三月完成事實資料報告 關五三今年一月二十五日一輛招養小客車租賃公司的現代電動小客車在國道一號亞美休息站往來的時候自創風格島 |
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1438.624 |
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1456.955 |
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起火燃燒 造成四人死亡 四人受傷這個案屬於第一級的重大共路事故已經在今年的九月發布事實資料報告並在九月二十二日發布調查期間的安全通告依據明年十月可以完成最終調查報告 |
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1458.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1480.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
關乎是 今年六月十六號有一輛大都會汽車客運股油線公司所屬的電動公車在敦化北路往北的路段上起火事故那麼這屬於第一集的重大事故 議定明年的一月發布事務資料報告 明年的十月完成最終調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1481.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1503.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
現在包括業務重點第一提升重大運輸事故的調查能量本會自由辦理研討會專題演講訓練及參與研習等方式強化事故的調查能量在職種訓練方面本年度已經辦理波音787飛機系統通識的互訓課程水路事故調查員訓練及體能訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1506.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1527.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
鐵道事故調查方法及分析工具運營訓練等等在國內交流研討部分本年度已經舉辦2025飛航資料分析與運用研討會後續並將辦理2025鐵道安全管理研討會直升機安全調查研討會以及2025運輸安全資訊交流研討會跟運輸協會的聯會運輸事故調查專題論壇 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1534.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1548.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第二 參加國際運輸安全交流的訓練本會積極參與國際運輸安全組織的交流提升我國國際能見度今年已派演參加國際運輸安全協會所長年會亞洲事務調查員協會國際事事調查論壇國際會安調查員協會年會 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1555.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1566.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
事故調查人材料會議等等11月份我們還要派人參加國際會安基金會的聯會另外為期許運輸安全調查新資歷技術亦派人參加國際運輸調查專業訓練等等請參考第三 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1571.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1598.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
主辦事故調查國際論壇 今年在四月八號到十號我們在臺灣舉辦二零二五亞太事故調查工程技術的論壇共有六個國家的代表與會進行了運劇紀錄裝置解讀及工程技術的交流另外本會將在下個禮拜也就是十月二十一日到二十四日主辦鐵道事故調查國際論壇有十一個國家的代表報名參加 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1599.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1625.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
將近有33位的這個專家學者會來台北 那針對鐵道事故的最新調查技術及方法會進行交流跟討論有關提升運計記錄器的解讀能量方面本會以完成114年度各具應記錄裝置的普查作業航空 水路 鐵道 公路的各個各項記錄器的解讀度已經達到100% |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1628.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1648.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
第五強化運輸安全支援報告系統的運作本年度迄今接獲八十一件的支援報告包括航空二十一件水路九件鐵道四十二件公路九件並篩選國內外具分享價值的報告以編撰發行八起的運輸安全支援報告系統專刊 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1649.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1668.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
第六 報告追蹤運輸安全改善建議本會迄今共發布一千八百五十八項的運輸安全改善建議完整改善者有一千七百六十九項完成率百分之九十五點二 剩下的八十九項目前還在積極改善中 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1668.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1688.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
另外有列管超過3年但是還沒有完成改善的有16項本會已經在今年的3月邀集相關機關開會了解原因主要是相關執行計畫設計法規標準的修正還有系統的設置工程所需的時間比較長所以已經要求各機關盡速完成改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1689.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1718.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第七有關執行科技計畫本會自一百一十三年開始執行四年期的建立我國新型運氣事故調查技術與安全研究計畫本年度以近日水陸航行資料紀錄器訓練機辦理大貨車資料收集測試研究及框架結構碰撞的測試採購現場測位AI無人機及高進度三次元的量測機完成超輕型載具引擎是工程失效的分析等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1720.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1748.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
先來報告預期施政事項第一 藉由重大運輸事故的調查 全面強化我國的運輸安全第二深化國際合作強化專業智能與全國能見 全球的能見度使本會的調查作業與國際趨勢同步面對新型抑鬱與調查技術的挑戰持續保持專業的領先第三持續培訓與精進提升事故調查與分析能量 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1750.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
1770.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
現在報告結議 本會將秉持獨立公正專業的核心價值 積極推動重大海陸空運輸事故的調查工作並持續精進專業知識以及技術 防範於未然未來將以更周前的策略以作為 確保我國運輸安全能隨著科技與時代發展不斷精進 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
1771.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
1797.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
感謝各位委員波容指導 繼續各位對本會也有給予支持 為臺灣的好路口移植安全的努力共同努力 以上報告好 謝謝另外介紹在場委員 我們廖先祥委員好 謝謝 接下來再請交通部武聖元次長進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
1809.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
1821.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士先生 今天應邀致貴我們會就高鐵公司推動寧靜車廂所引發的正反意見 政策上路近一個月的成效以及後續先導 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
1822.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
1844.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
宣導的因應進行報告 僅說明如後進行各位人指教臺灣高鐵公司臨近車廂的措施內容高鐵公司建議國人對乘車品質的一個要求為提升車廂乘坐品質落實臨近車廂的推動 在今年的八月二十二號公告修訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
1845.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
1863.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
旅客運送企業並自今年的9月22號正式來實施針對旅客有喧嘩以及電子產品進行交談或視訊播放通訊軟體的提示音或者是影音的媒體等明顯影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
1865.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
1879.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
妨礙他人安寧的行為經勸導未改善者該公司可以拒絕運送解除或者是終止7A那高鐵公司的臨近車廂措施在今年9月22號起採全車廂來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
1883.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
1904.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
實施初期以三個月為宣導期 並固定透過車廂的跑馬燈 車上的廣播以及海報的文獻等的方式來宣導 請旅客使用3C的產品希望能夠戴耳機 假設旅客有撥打或接聽電話的這個需求應該到車廂的玄關處那 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
1909.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
1925.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
高鐵的臨近車廂推行後的現況做一個說明 高鐵車廂臨近車廂雖然已經明文細規定旅客使用3C的產品而且在後續的媒體宣導音又耳的聲音並不再此列 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
1926.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
1946.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
但是近期家長在網路反映 這樣的措施對育兒的環境不友善等的情勢那因為對育兒不友善的這個討論本部鐵道局在這個1月4日 也就是今年的9月15號 還請高鐵公司來持續滾動檢討寧靜車廂的相關規範並積極對外說明及宣導以兼顧不同旅客族群的需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
1952.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
1973.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
道磊公司已經宣導離地車廂並不是針對嬰兒 嬰幼兒對嬰兒幼童或是其他如疾病等明確因素而影響自主的能力旅客的行為列車人會將以持續的關心並提供必要的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
1975.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2002.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
第四 本部將持續督導臺灣高鐵公司密切請勤各界的意見精進相關的宣導措施還有服務技巧提升親子友善環境以兼顧不同族群旅客的需求以上報告 謝謝好 接下來再請臺灣高鐵公司史哲董事長進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2016.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2035.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
主席各位委員各位女士先生大家好非常感謝今天有這個機會能代表臺灣高鐵公司向各位委員報告高鐵推動寧靜車廂的政策成效及後續作為今天會分成三個部分來說明第一是政策的推動與執行第二是親子友善的措施及澄清第三是後續的進行作為及方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2036.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2056.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
首先先說明政策的推動背景 為了回應旅客對於車廂安寧環境的期待 臺灣高鐵公司從今年九月正式推動臨近車廂乘車文化我們推動三項乘車禮儀 三吸用耳機 玄關講手機 交談降低音量在政策上市上路之前 我們在八月二十二號 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2057.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2082.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
修訂旅客運送契約並公告官網在九月一號到二十一號由列車長廣播提醒九月十五號再透過新聞稿正式發布截至十月十三號我們共執行了一萬七千一百四十六件執行班次共三千七百三十六班平均每車次大約勸導四到五位旅客其中蔣電話站 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2084.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2111.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
49%使用3C沒有戴耳機佔24%大聲交談佔27%根據我們內部的調查有將近九成的旅客表示支持推動寧靜文化可見提升車廂寧靜度已經成為社會的高度共識多數旅客也都肯定高鐵營造安靜舒適友善的乘車環境的方向而被勸導的旅客也大多能配合改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2112.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2141.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
第二部分說明親子友善的作為及外界的疑慮 針對社會上關心寧靜車廂是不是在針對小孩這個問題我們已經明確對外聲明說明勸導的對象僅限於成人不當使用3C或喧嘩行為而在孩童嬰幼兒或因疾病導致無法控制音量的旅客都不在勸導範圍內服務人員若遇到小朋友哭鬧會主動提供親子貼紙協助家長轉移注意力以陪伴跟同理的方式讓整個乘車過程更溫暖更友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2142.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2170.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
第三部分說明後續的精進及改善方向面對外界的建議跟執行經驗我們已經持續滾動檢討包括幾項調整第一我們取消原本作為網代理的寧靜車廂小卡改用TLIFE雜誌跟社群媒體做柔性的勸導溝通第二暫時取下車販催車上的寧靜車廂搖搖牌目前正在進行重新的設計第三勸導方式更加柔性以自然互動口頭提醒為主希望兼顧秩序及 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2171.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2197.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
維護的這個乘客的感受同時我們加強內部教育訓練讓服務人員透過案例分享與同理心訓練更能用合宜的方式處理現場展望未來我們會持續兩個方向來努力第一強化宣導通路除了T live與社群媒體持續宣導之外車上跑馬燈也會新增提示語例如若因誘餌乘車需要協助請洽列車組員配合你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2198.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2217.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
感謝你的配合讓宣導更完整更貼心第二 深化親子友善我們除了會開發更多親子互動的素材協助家長在車上安撫小朋友未來並會推出以體諒包容同理心為主題的影片跟平面宣導鼓勵大家相互體諒營造更溫暖的乘車氛圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2218.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2238.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
最後高鐵會持續兼顧旅客的權益跟社會包容的精神一步一步推動寧靜車廂的文化讓高鐵成為一個既安靜又友善的公共運輸空間以上是今天的簡要報告感謝各位委員的聆聽也敬請各位委員給予寶貴的指導跟建議謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2246.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2250.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
好 接下來再請衛生福利部莊仁祥次長進行報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2260.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2277.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
主席 各位委員先生女士今天本部獲邀舊高鐵公司推動離境車廂所引發政府的意見正式上路近一個月的成效及後續宣導因應提出專題報告 敬請各位委員不吝賄於指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2278.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2303.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
臺灣高鐵公司為提供安靜舒適之乘車環境規劃鄰近車廂制度明定不得喧嘩通話播放提示音或影音等行為並於今年九二十二日開始施行為規範明確排除因有疾因疾病等影響自主行為的旅客且全車廂皆為親子友友善空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2305.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2319.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
本部於今年八月二十八日接獲民眾陳情反映指高鐵寧靜車廂制度恐對育兒家庭不友善依兒少法第三十三條第二項規定略以 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2320.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2338.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
交通事業應提供兒童及孕婦優先照顧措施本部於9月2日函請交通部督導臺灣高鐵公司檢視規範並對外宣導兒童不在限制範圍以兼顧各類旅客需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2340.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2364.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
立法院衛華委員會委員關注高鐵鄰近車廂制度上路後引發輿論爭議部分民眾遊行造成育兒家庭標籤化及兒童權益受影響等疑慮恐造成社會對立本部已於十月十四日函請交通部評估調整措施以符合友善育兒政策目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2366.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2389.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
結與兒童於安全尊重與包容環境中成長為國家與社會共同目標衛務部將持續關注高鐵臨近車廂政策執行情形針對涉及兒童及照顧者權益事項適時提供政策建議促進友善育兒與共榮社會之實現 以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2394.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2415.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
好 謝謝好 現在進行選答 先宣告以下事項選答時間出席委員6加2分鐘 列席委員5分鐘2 委員發言登記於10點30分截止3 各委員如有臨時提案 請於10點前提出以便歷史人員會診4 暫定10點30分休息10分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2432.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2445.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
好 現在我們請登記第一位委員 黃孟愷召委發言主席謝謝 麻煩先請雲南匯林主委林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2451.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2469.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
好 主委好 主委來我先請教因為我今天看到越南匯這邊有幾個重大事件都已經有做關注但其中有一個是跟公車主都很息息相關今年6月的時候電動巴士在台北市有一個電動巴士起火那到目前為止第一 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2469.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2497.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
民眾會恐慌是說電動巴士怎麼會起火這是單一事件還是有可能是系統性的問題第二現在全台都還有很多電動巴士持續的在運行那會不會造成搭乘電動巴士民眾的安危以及第三2030年我們推動全面大眾運輸電動巴士化所以這個政策會不會延宕所以我今天看到是說你明年1月要適時公佈但是先初步瞭解這是單一個案還是系統性問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2498.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2523.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
目前看起來它是一個單一個案單一個案對 但是它有可能會變成系統性我們還在觀察因為它是真的是單一個案所以現在的調查狀況怎麼樣因為這東西平常時間還有很多的電動巴士還在走如果說照你講這樣子渲染我本來想說是單一個案讓大家比較安心結果你講說有系統性的問題那現在全台灣都有那麼多電動巴士還持續在開那會不會造成影響運安的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2528.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2554.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
目前是看不出來主委發言要謹慎一點好不好對答詢謹慎一點發言謹慎一點這是你第三頁的業務報告是本席要請教的是一開始的時候他們有講就是初步不管是這個這個現場有人去看是說有可能是電池發生問題電池故障那目前這樣子調查下來電池的問題比較多還是整個系統的充電問題比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2556.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2575.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
因為電動公車事實上他是三大部分一個是電控一個是電機一個電池現在還在調查中所以我們調查的重點在電子模組老化這部分也是屬於我們調查的重點是所以未來如果說調查出來之後也會有精進改善的方案當然有好 本席 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2577.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2605.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
要看到完整的報告並且也要要求是說如果說該改善的地方要要求改善要給交通部以及督促我們不管是公路公車業者等相關來去做一個檢討因為這個是關係到是全民的安危好不好所以我今天問題比較多所以你直接回答重點好不好另外再來最近我們看到有航空公司業者的這個空服員抱病執勤延誤就醫而離世 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2607.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2633.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
我覺得這雖然是勞動部要去針對所謂的勞基法來去做相關到底他請假有沒有要扣分有沒有扣這個全勤獎金但另外一個部分他牽扯到的是平均空服員的飛行時數也會被增加而且因為疫情之後航班恢復多於人力的補充所以說其實現在航空業的過勞最大主因已經嚴重影響到飛安也嚴重影響到運安了 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2635.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2656.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
如果說我們乘客搭乘飛機的時候空服員居然是一個生病然後都不能請假的或是說空服員調配非常的捉襟見肘這樣子會不會有飛安的疑慮民防局他是根據航空公司飛行作業管理規則他日常都有查核他對組員的排班他會檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2657.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2680.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
但是現在很顯然就是組員排班他是公司內部不讓組員休假所以即便有病假有事假公司內部不讓你休假不然的話他甚至講說潛規則啊我休假太多我下個月我就整你我就讓你排全部都是列管全部都是待命那所以空服員不敢請假而惡性循環導致說 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2683.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2692.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
我們的非安品質就會不良嘛那今天是一個空服員離世那會不會未來有發生空服員因為身體不適或怎樣狀況而影響到非安來 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2696.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
2717.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
排班表如果有涉及疲勞的風險分析我們上一個案子就臺灣虎航的組員有失能這個案子的時候我們也有提出改善建議是所以這個案子如果是一直內需有這個班表造成疲勞風險的話這個確實是要做風險分析那我們會跟民航局來協調看我們怎麼樣協助他在這方面我們是有做過案例 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
2719.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
2743.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
因為不要一而再再三這個行業其實一般所有行業都不應該有存在的就是說我市價併價不能請不然要扣分的我想公務員不會有這樣的狀況一般的行業也不允許有這樣的狀況但是在航空業來講這好像變成是一個潛規則而且主委請容許我再提醒一個數據他說上個月長榮航空營收高達156億 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
2745.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
2763.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
結果到今年只被開罰多少因為空服員這樣的一個狀況被開罰300萬我收156億我只被開罰300萬業者可能他自己算盤他都會算說怎麼樣對他最划算所以他可能就把它變成是一個潛在成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
2765.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
2785.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
主委所以你剛剛講說你會跟民航局對我我們會把這個議題帶給民航局說這個希望他們他們有需要我們不要這樣子讓航空業的這個狀況屢見不鮮好不好對好來那再麻煩我們高鐵史哲董事長跟我們交通部次長來主委可以先請回謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
2792.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
2817.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
來 市長 董事長本期剛剛看了你們的報告也看了從9月22號開始的一個政策到現在一連串的一個反應其實我覺得追根究柢很多人會認為說剛開始這一個政策政策利益良善但是政策的名詞會讓大家有所誤解我們用的是臨近車廂但實際上我們推動的是什麼是全部高鐵都要臨近環境對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
2819.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
2826.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
那你用寧靜車廂可能有人就會誤會以為一輛高鐵裡面有12節車廂是不是有的車廂叫寧靜有的車廂不寧靜還是有的車廂一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
2831.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
2858.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這是誤會一誤會二 寧靜車廂大家就會想說以前我們有所謂的寵物友善車廂就是有些大眾運輸工具是一個車廂裡面可以帶寵物上去有自行車友善車廂有特定車廂可以把自行車帶上去有女性專用車廂這特定時間有女性的時候搭乘這個車廂所以再講一下我們現在推動的這其實是一個寧靜列車文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
2859.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
2885.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
安靜列車文化是所有高鐵都希望營造一個不要使用3C不要使用講電話然後而不是針對孩童對不對跟委員報告確實剛剛講台灣高鐵公司提出這個寧靜車廂指的是對於3C產品因為過去我們在搭而且是全車式對全車式的我們希望能夠比較一個寧靜的對於孩童部分其實並不在規範之內 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
2886.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
2910.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
是對於孩童不在規範之內對 不在規範之內好 那我有看到一個新聞是講是說有網路上的論壇講說有一個媽媽帶兩個寶貝到最後被勸導說一個大寶要離開去這個走道上面來安撫但高鐵講說沒有這回事那現在去查了到底是怎樣論壇亂爆料還是說沒有這個事情還是說確有實事那實事寧人說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
2911.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
2931.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
好 謝謝委員我想這個案子在網路上被說明之後事實上網友事實上有點出測試所以高鐵事實上馬上進行了調查報告而調查報告當中充分的顯示其實是並沒有這件事情而高鐵在當下就已經說明並無此事並無此事並無此事也沒有息事寧人並沒有這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
2931.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
2952.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
好那所以現在看來是車廂推動的情況尤其我們過去有三次的三天連假造成說可能大家使用的狀況比較高那未來我們還是要精進這樣的一個制度不要讓育兒的人育兒族認為說被針對尤其這個政策推出來的時候就不是要針對育兒族嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
2953.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
2968.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
他從頭到尾就沒有針對育女組好 所以本席一個具體建議除了剛剛你們講的這一些策略以外其實我覺得很重要一點是我們在訂票的時候有所謂的手機APP訂票或是網路訂票是不是能夠在訂票前再把我們這今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
2969.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
2983.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
寫出來的很明確的聲明就是包括說我們不是要勸導對象僅限成人不當使用3C或循環行為但是孩童嬰幼兒及疾病影響自主能力的旅客不受勸導範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
2986.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3008.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
譬如說最後我要確定這張票要不要訂嘛那我要訂之前等於是顧客跟我們高鐵公司達成一個合約的一個行為的時候再跳出一個頁面讓他知道是說我們現在推動的這個寧靜車廂做法規範事項以及規範行為為何他可以點選一個說我了解了勾了之後他可以進行訂票 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3009.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3034.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
多一個動作可能會讓更多的旅客他在購買的時候他也會了解也讓育兒族的家長他要買車票的時候更放心這樣可以嗎是我想委員這部分我們會來研議我想我們各式各樣的通路都已經在進行 謝謝好 那就請趕快好不好能做這個東西應該不難吧我想我們會來研議這件事情 謝謝好 來最後一分鐘是不是我可以請台鐵的總經理好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3036.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3038.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
好謝謝來次長跟施董事長請回來謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3045.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3073.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
委員好總經理我先給予肯定勇於認識因為今天其實沒有邀請到台鐵這邊但是台鐵還是很勇於認識的交通委員會過來那我想這兩天有個新聞也是大家都很關注就是台鐵這邊車站大廳居然發生這個性侵案件當然警方已經有去釐清了就是說第一他們現在在調查中但第一他們是熟識的他不是隨機性侵第二這一個性侵犯他的身分並不是街友他是通緝犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3075.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3087.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
可是這凸顯了兩個問題第一台鐵大廳它是一個人來人往而且是一個完全公開場合甚至可以講說是國門那我們怎麼會在國門上面有發生這樣的一個犯罪事實 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3088.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3108.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
那第二犯罪事實發生了10分鐘才被外籍旅客通報那我們的這個不管是警察的一個巡邏或者說監視系統的部分有沒有可以更加強的地方來說明一下報告委員那這件事是發生在10月9號的下午時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3109.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3130.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
那當天的 他還不是晚上他是下午時間 對所以是更加人來人往 對所以大津其實人是很多那所以第一時間其實入境接到通報以後他們馬上就針對報案人的相關的提供的相關資料做確認以後就現場就逮捕了這個嫌犯那目前嫌犯也送到偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3132.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3146.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
地檢署來偵辦那我們台鐵公司也馬上跟這個陸警鐵警局來做開會我們已經提出了四項的一個這個陸警跟台鐵公司聯防的安全網的建立措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3147.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3160.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
第一個就是我們定點的守望的頻率要增加我們針對車站大廳還有廁所月台幾個治安的熱點我們這個原來的這個守望的頻率要提高到三次以上那針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3162.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3184.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
第二項就是我們入境跟我們車站的保全還有我們的車站人員共同組成一個聯合巡邏網我們每半小時就會去做巡邏避免這樣的一個事情再發生第三是我們會成立一個關懷小組針對在這個車站周邊如果有異常的行為我們會進行來做一個關懷來輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3186.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3201.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
那最後我們也通知這個市府的社會局請社會局針對這無家者能夠進行輔導跟安置我們希望能夠透過治安的防範跟社會關懷雙管齊下能夠讓這樣的一個事件不要再發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3203.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3224.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
讓我們所有旅客的人身安全都能夠得到確保是 總經理但是請龍許本席再提醒剛剛你講的這一些都是我們已經見報並且我們已經了解可是有沒有辦法有效阻止這樣的一個犯罪行為再發生其實它是一個長達十分鐘就我們現在了解它是一個長達十分鐘在排鐵大廳的性侵犯罪 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3225.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3254.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
那犯罪是事實但另外一個部分是說現在大家會質疑的是說為什麼會在大廳裡面人來人往會有一個十分鐘的犯罪行為那如果說今天不是性侵呢今天是暴力攻擊呢今天是這個扒手 這偷竊那會不會變成是我們反而變成是在人來人往的國門變成是一個犯罪熱點所以我們才會想是說有沒有治安的視角還是有沒有哪些地方是這個監視器沒有拍到的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3255.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3285.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
對 報告委員就是我們監視器其實幾個重點的大廳還有我們的售票房這個月台我們都有監視器在做監控那剛才我們提到四項措施就是要透過這種巡邏密度的增加然後重點的這個守望然後讓這樣的一個事件不再發生主要是要讓社會大眾或是有有這樣的一個情勢要發生的一個可能性給他有效的降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3286.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3306.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我們當然不能保證說我們透過這個措施就從此不會再發生可是我們透過這個措施對外這個嚴正的宣告那我們讓主角所有有意圖要犯罪的行為都讓他能夠不再發生這個是我們目前最主要的採行的措施好 因為這件事件真的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3307.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3336.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
讓大家第一時間聽到的時候覺得非常匪夷所思那甚至如果說變成如果說它是一個隨機的犯罪的話那會更讓大家擔心也會影響到台灣對於國際上面的一個評價畢竟台北車站也好可能是桃園機場下來之後我搭乘機捷來到台北市的第一站所以它也某種程度上算是國門之一那真的人來人往旅客那麼多一定要務必加強我們的治安控管 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3338.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3365.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
絕對不要再讓這樣的一個犯罪行為再發生好嗎好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝那我們現在請登記第二位李坤哲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3367.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3384.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我們再次感謝廖先祥委員 情義相挺 拔刀相助謝謝也要感謝我啊 我等很久也感謝李坤哲召委 謝謝來 謝謝洪孟楷召委請一下運安會 林主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3385.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3415.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
也請指責董事長還有吳聖元次長我先請教一下運安會的主委有關於長榮空服員在9月25號結束飛航任務之後返台因為身體不適送醫院急診不幸在10月10號宣告不治死亡那其實長榮航空公司對於員工的苛刻 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3416.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3441.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
跟不重視員工的權益其實在過往都有很多的事蹟那我們看到空服員跟相關的人員工會他們的反應跟投訴就是有關於空服員他們請病假或者是試假他們就會喪失他們在排班 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3442.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3456.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
航線跟休假相關選擇的一個權利那這不只是空服員的問題機師同樣面對高工時以及高度壓力的工作環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3457.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3471.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
他們的飛行時數很長休息時間是否充足而且這種跨時區的高精神壓力的這種工作環境之下是否造成了疲勞駕駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3474.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3488.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
對於相關的飛行的判斷會出現誤差這關係到飛航整體的一個安全如果我們按照SMS安全管理系統航空公司的管理者他對於相關的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3489.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3513.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
不管是要辨識要控制要相關的這個做處理但是他們在相關自己排辦的過程就產生這種造成疲勞的這樣的一個高度疲勞影響飛安的狀況我是具體建議應該要仿效美國的運安會督促相關的單位必須去落實相關的一個督促 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3514.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3538.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
對於值班對於相關的這種疲勞影響飛安的狀況必須嚴格的督促來說明一下包委我們事實上對會員事務的調查每個案子都會把這個所謂疲勞管理排班的制度都會做檢討這個案子我們會跟民安局聯繫就是看看民安局需不需因為我們有一個疲勞風險呼吸的軟體我們會協助他 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3540.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3568.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
那SMS它最主要它就是要去管理者要去落實相關的這種風險但是它對於相關的這些排班所造成的疲勞影響飛安的因素確實是會衝擊旅客的安全這個必須要重視那我們必須要建立透明而且可追蹤的這種報告的機制要落實勤務的排程跟相關的休息制度的安全的監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3569.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3593.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
另外運安會我認為還是要建議民航局檢視各航空業者他的排班的一個規定避免不合理的排班方式透過系統性的監督跟調整來強化飛航組員的健康跟安全的一個保障那從根本上要來提升這種運輸的安全這個請您諸位要去督促 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3594.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3617.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
另外我們現在看到相關的這樣的一個科技創新跟生態永續的觀念之下不管是車輛的電動化跟它的智慧駕駛都是成為車業發展未來的一個趨勢但這樣一個趨勢之下我們也看到很多的問題不管是它的監督電動車的監督機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3620.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3645.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
數據的一個管理或是安全責任事故分析等等現在都成為世界各國一個高度注意的一個焦點那我們看到美國跟日本都有發生相關的這種自動車的或是輔助駕駛所產生的一個安全危害的案例我們台灣問題也相當的嚴重我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3646.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3667.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
公路局的一個反撞車的遭撞統計在目前我們台灣的交通系統其實我知道交通部是有做相關的統計但是比較明確的是反撞車輛遭撞的這樣的一個統計就是有配備ADAS車輛以及有開啟ADAS車輛的這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3670.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3676.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
遭到撞擊的這樣的一個數據有呈現出來ATAS就是車輛的輔助駕駛系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3678.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3703.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
那他是逐年增加那我現在是具體要求我們要求交通部必須把針對相關自動駕駛以及輔助駕駛所造成的車輛的明確數據必須跟警政署要建立明確的數據並且向社會來公告那我們從高工局緩撞車遭自動駕駛或輔助駕駛 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3706.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3732.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
撞擊的這樣的一個例子來說我們可以看到件數都是明顯的一個增加這是我們必須要去注意的那我必須要說我們世界各國他們對於電動車以及輔助駕駛的安全關注是越來越高那我們看到我們自動駕駛的這個機制有三個主要的問題第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3735.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3762.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
就是駕駛數據的透明化跟監管機制仍然不足甚至出現掩蓋篡改的數據的這種情形第二個是技術的成熟度跟不同駕駛環境的適應性它還是未見足夠的一個完善第三是監督管理機制不夠及時無法及時的這種解決跟處理我們來看世界各國 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3763.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
3774.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
主委 車輛加裝黑盒子你看歐盟已經規定在2024年7月要開始所有上市的小客車小貨車都要裝置EDR |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
3776.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
3795.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
事件紀錄就是黑盒子那也要強化車商的資料管理責任跟提供的義務那英國有相關的規定英國自動駕駛車輛法明確的規定車輛加裝黑盒子我們看到歐盟也有相關的一個規定之外另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
3796.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
3818.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
我们对于相关的这些我们台湾的施行的法律主委你看一下我们相关的规范实行年度跟资料要求都落后于国际大概三至四年欧盟2024年就已经要实施了我们到2027年1月1号才要实施相关的这些办法 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
3820.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
3849.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
進度嚴重的落後另外我們來看我們的公共運輸方面現在的公路私企客運雖然有這種類似的設備但是他們都是以數位數位式的行車資訊記錄設備就是數位大筆來進行資訊管理跟記錄但是記錄內容範圍跟管理的即時性它是遠遠落後於EDR黑核子系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
3850.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
3866.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
運安會是否會主動建議公路局來督促業者改善 來主委說明一下大車的EDR我們現在正在做專案研究那麼研究成果我想我可以提供給交通部作為修法的參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
3867.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
3893.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
另外我們運安會應該要善用建議來督促交通部加速推動EDR的施行的一個時程這個主委要跟交通部來督促也要建立車輛數據的透明化跟防創改的機制那車商也應該要定期接受自動車及輔助駕駛系統相關的一個安全的資訊主委來說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
3898.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
3918.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
交通部對他目前第四二零二八喔那麼是是有一點晚啦那那我們在工程反轉車的事故這個調查案的時候我們已經有提出改善建議啦說請交通部要跟駕駛員宣導那個A大使就是輔助駕駛員因為他為了責任除了相關事故的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
3919.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
3942.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
很重要的一個責任就是安全的改善建議那我認為也應該要督促公路局推動公路及市區客運數位大餅的一個升級達到歐盟的標準並且納入評鑑跟集合的一個標準那交通部也必須要建立自動駕駛以及輔助駕駛的即時監管及快速的應變機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
3945.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
3950.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
這個是非常重要的一個環節最後來我請教一下史哲董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
3953.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
3978.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
相關於鄰近車廂或是鄰近文化車廂或是鄰近禮貌車廂當然他的強度各有不同那我們對於相關旅客的權益以及親子的友善環境都是長久在考驗交通部的一個重要的議題那其實蔡啟昌會長也在這邊當初台鐵的親子車廂就是有 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
3979.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4004.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
蔡會長跟我共同提議那後來他擔任副院長之後我就召集親子團體針對台鐵親子車廂的設計藍圖而且在施工的過程也一再的履刊施工完成之後跟蔡副院長也一起來履刊相關的親子車廂當然高鐵又不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4005.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4031.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
高鐵的車廂我們沒有辦法去改當初也有這樣的一個討論但是高鐵的車廂都是日本整組進來沒有辦法去做相關的一個改裝而且這對安全也有相關的一個影響不過在整個過程裡面我對於高鐵我認為還是有失職之處就在討論整個親子友善環境以及鄰近車廂的這樣一個爭議的過程裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4033.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4046.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
沒有明確的來跟親子團體來對話怎樣的一個親子友善環境以及鄰近車廂的一個建立如果來達成共識這個過程高鐵沒有做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4048.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4074.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
第二在相關的這樣的一個宣導的過程時間也不足也過於衝突這容易造成社會的一個對立其實在日本重大的交通政策我一再的跟交通部來說明跟要求重大的交通政策這種鄰近車廂親子友善的環境就是一個重大的交通議題必須要有半年以上的對話跟宣導高鐵也沒有做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4075.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4097.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
這個高鐵董事長必須要去督促相關的改善那讓你簡單的說明一下現在你們具體的時程跟相關的改善的相關措施董事長說明一下好 是 謝謝委員我想我們每一日的勸導的案件數剛剛也有報告過大概是800多件平均一台列車大概是5件那大概50是講手機25%大概是這個3C產品戴耳機的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4102.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4128.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那好的現象是事實上大部分的旅客街頭到券島之後事實上都非常樂意改善所以我們認為這樣子持續的精進作為事實上應該在半年之後應該這整個狀況就會大家社會大家都會接受委員所提到的這個車廂是不是同時都能夠親子友善這是我們的使命跟責任我們在這個部分也會持續跟大家溝通尋求更好的這個執行的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4129.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4145.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
也請你把跟 要跟親子團體對話的時程也明確的來向我做報告跟說明好 謝謝謝謝好 接下來再請蔡其昌委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4160.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4172.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
謝謝主席請高鐵公司石澤董事長石董事長請委員長董事長早 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4176.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4194.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
看起來這個寧靜車廂在前幾前一段時間有一點爭議是那其實我也看過相關的這些報導第一個我想在相關的民調裡面呈現寧靜車廂是多數搭乘高鐵旅客很支持的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4195.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4221.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
政策但是看起來以我的了解應該是說我們在於對外的溝通宣導以及對內部員工的教育訓練上面恐怕有一點落差也就是說寧靜車廂不應該去對去造成跟親子友善這樣的一個目標或者概念去產生干戈跟衝突因為為什麼我們談 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4224.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4238.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
我一直剛剛李昆哲委員他跟我一樣都很重視所以過去在交通委員會對於親子友善特別是國家的重大交通建設你看我們的機場為什麼會有一個低矮的小便斗 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4239.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4264.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們的所有交通部 轄下 觀光區觀光景點 交通設施都有一個落地型的小便斗那個都是親子友善的設計為什麼新的空間必須洗手台都要往下降那個就是方便孩子洗手所以這個都是我認為都是進步國家的一個表現所以寧靜車廂在我一開始的認知裡面我根本不認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4265.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4275.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
指的董事長你是要針對那個孩子吵鬧的部分著手從來沒有所以在執法上面就是我們的員工在進行相關的勸導上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4276.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4305.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
的確可能進行了有關譬如說孩子可能比較吵鬧所以會有親子團體去抱怨好像有這樣的一個現象所以我是覺得這個歸根究底第一個如同剛剛去提到應該去強化跟社會的對話跟溝通特別在親子團體部分第二個高鐵在員工教育訓練上面這個親子其實是小朋友的問題為什麼我們講這個是因為小朋友他就是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4306.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4320.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
沒有辦法像大人一樣我們在行為上面可以得到一個充分的控制所以我們為什麼要做友善在台鐵上面我們讓孩子就有一個可以很吵鬧的車廂 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4321.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4348.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
那台鐵的時間又長所以他更需要對孩子的安撫跟照顧有一個妥適的空間那當然高鐵相對短但是高鐵其實沒有任何要跟社會大眾說明沒有任何要對孩子孩子是如果能夠控制那爸爸媽媽就可以控制了那所以除了這個之外我認為教育訓練應該進一層進一層雖然不能改變車廂但我們可以改變訓練的方法 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4349.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4376.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
譬如說我常常講說為什麼大家喜歡有一些飯店或者國家大家認為親子旅遊很合適我隨便舉一個例子我曾經在泰國的一個飯店吃早餐的時候那是一個很高級的餐廳早餐所以呢我的孩子兩個孩子當時很小所以很吵那我們不斷的安撫但他就是會叫嘛一歲的小孩子那 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4378.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4394.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
飯店的服務人員他走過來不是叫我說可不可以讓孩子閉嘴而是他走過來告訴我說我可以帶著你的孩子在你視線看得到範圍這個窗戶的外面我可以陪他在那邊玩一下子帶他進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4397.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4414.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
這個飯店從此被我列為全世界最友善親子的飯店所以台鐵公司一樣我的意思是說我們可以在教育訓練過程裡面讓我們的高鐵公司你可以設計比如說簡單的零食比如說像現在乖乖不是在到處跟人家聯名嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4415.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4435.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
任何的產品跟高鐵公司聯名給一個小孩子一個小零食或者給孩子一個小玩具或許可以讓孩子他就得到一定的安撫而會讓他變得相對安靜很多那其實這個成本很低但他卻是高鐵公司社會對親子友善親子最重要的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4436.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4453.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
一個象徵或者做法所以其實這是內部的我們的訓練跟內部怎麼管理的問題所以我希望董事長可以參考看看就是說我們不只跟社會大眾對話說台鐵是友善親子我們更具體在落實在管理跟內部的教育訓練上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4454.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4482.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
展現出高鐵對親子友善的做法是 謝謝這個應該可以考慮一下我想是 我們的同仁從過去都一直都是在秉持友善親子的做法是 所以這個我覺得應該持續所以希望讓可以得到安靜的旅客不是因為大人的講電話或者是講話過度的喧嘩或者是甚至用3C產品開得很大聲是我想這個才是寧靜車廂的意義沒有錯 是 謝謝委員好 那另外就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4484.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4507.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
這個下一批因為新舊的車廂要改變很困難是但新的車廂現在已經在打造當中對打造當中除了這個呃呃剛剛提到這零箱之後我覺得還有一個對旅客來講也很在意的事情就是我們這個行李放置是譬如說大型的嬰兒嬰兒推車是其實那個上去車廂很 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4510.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4535.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
我們現行的設計裡面能夠放置行李跟放置大型行李跟嬰兒折疊車的地方並不多是 那新的車廂有沒有可能可以在這方面去做一些改變或調整或增加空間是 各位委員報告我想全世界的高速鐵路都面臨到這個行李是在這個非常急速的成長的比例那高鐵同樣也遇到這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4536.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4564.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
那我們在新的列車上大概採取的模式是這樣首先第一個我們每一個車廂所配置的本來的兩座行李空間會改成一單一雙一雙的意思就是說他有雙層那可以增加行李的容量那一單就是表示說他有一些比較高大的行李你還是不能讓他不放嘛這是其一第二個就是新的車子的這個行李架也就是座位上方的行李架他會比較寬敞以至於我們接下來應該會希望反正是24吋以 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4566.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4584.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
底下的行李箱都要放在座位上面的行李架這樣子就要把空間讓出來在行李座的部分可以放比如說委員剛剛講的這個嬰兒車等等所以我們是在積極準備這件事情也就是說我覺得現行的設計裡面就是董事長其實你也都觀察到現行設計裡面其實空間沒有立體化是 所以很可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4585.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4605.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
那像有一些外面就車廂跟車廂中間我看有一些空間我不知道他要做什麼用的就是反正有一個像電話亭的東西我看最後只要乘客很多行李很多的時候那裡也都放行李那個可能都過去在設計可能不合使用的那現在在未來的設計裡面從 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4608.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4621.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
車廂內部到車廂外部就車廂跟車廂連結處那些剩餘的空間其實應該可以都好好來考慮我們事實上有在準備是好那謝謝董事長那我請那個主委董事長請請坐好主委其實很簡單這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4634.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4662.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
飛機上面對於這個這個我們這個行動電池的問題我們其實都長期以來他已經是不可以放到車行李裡面他必須要隨身攜帶那高鐵發生過這個電池爆炸燃燒嘛這我從媒體上面看到的那我想請問主委如果電池因為我看到有四個人受傷主委你知道這四個人是怎麼受傷的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4664.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4692.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
不瞭解 主委你應該院會應該去管理一下這個行動電源其實是大家生活當中幾乎出門必備那我問主委這個因為我不瞭解他這四個人怎麼受傷因為他其實不是放在他應該是放在隨身的行李當中那隨身行李當中我從這個照片看到主委我請問一下那地上那一根滅火器可不可以如果電池燃燒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4694.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4712.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
那一個滅火器就是放在高鐵車廂裡面那個滅火器可不可以把行動電源燃燒可不可以用這個滅火器撲滅這個可能要研究這個還不知道這個就是專業的對主委這是專業問題但本席認為這個對運安是很重要的也就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4721.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4744.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
依照本席粗淺的知識看起來那個滅火器應該是滅不了電池的火我不知道啦我不是很確定但依照我的常識應該是滅不了就像那個為什麼我說因為電動車著火滅火器是不行的他好像是要覆蓋還是怎麼樣anyway所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4746.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4772.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
主委我相信國人所有的乘客消費者對於如果在他的臨座發生了電池燃燒他怎麼處置恐怕主委這恐怕沒有現場恐怕會一團亂恐怕沒有人知道避免釀成更大的災害這個四個人受傷還要依公共危險罪偵辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
4773.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
4794.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那到底行動電源這個東西如果發生了燃燒在現場因為過去火災如果有火災因為滅火器大家知道拿著就用滅火器來處理這個叫消防演練那電池發生了爆炸或自燃那到底在密閉的車廂空間裡面該如何處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
4797.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
4812.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
這個應援會應該有一些指引讓高鐵公司應該來演練從員工的教育訓練一直到乘客如何自處他應該要有一些指引主委這個可以去做一點這個處理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
4814.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
4830.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
我們前一陣子有會診航空鐵道旅客攜帶使用行動電源的安全管理的解駭的資訊 我們有蒐集我們有發言給交通部員 民航局 鐵道局還有相關航空鐵道的業者我所知道的 像高鐵他攜帶 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
4832.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
4859.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
就有規定因為我們這個資訊給他說你這個行動電人要行動就跟做會計一樣要放在手席心裡你要手持你要戴在身上對 戴在身上這也是一個措施這沒問題那我現在問你就是說他就戴在身上這個案例也是戴在身上那我的意思是說你看他還導致四個人受傷這四個人受傷的過程是什麼是爆炸的同時就噴到四個人所以四個人受傷還是燒起來了大家不知道怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
4861.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
4861.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
因為這樣去受傷就面對這個這個案例啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
4866.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
4894.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
因為他會應該適度的去了解嘛那了解完之後我們才知道說為什麼他會受傷那如果未來再發生他帶在電池的確是帶在自己隨身的行李但是燃燒了因為你電池不是水噴不是把電池澆水譬如說把高鐵的水拿來澆一澆就把它弄洗的不是不是把隨身的礦水拿一來澆就可以洗高鐵上面只有滅火器可不可以拿那一根滅火器來噴一噴它就洗了 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
4895.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
4913.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這個是本席關心的因為大家都有行動電源品牌也你要源頭管理這是另外一個課題就到底有沒有一些非法很危險的這些劣質品如果這個是另外一個經濟部另外一個議題但如果就已經發生了 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
4915.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
4930.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
應該會可以有一些指引讓高鐵公司來遵循或者來訓練可不可以讓旅客知道我們可以去了解去蒐集資料然後譬如說高鐵他可以比照航空的高規格不是就剛剛委員講的不是一些沒有其實應該有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
4931.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
4954.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
航空便有包啦或者是一些比較高規格的所以要怎麼做我覺得這個因為已經案例發生嘛對對對其實它是就是運安嘛所以怎麼去處理我覺得應該有一些指引好不好時間已經到了我們來蒐集一些資料看看怎麼樣對你就只要說OK我們來做就好了我其實因為你也不知道嘛我現在問你你也沒辦法告訴我答案嘛好不好謝謝委員好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
4961.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
4978.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
好 接下來再請陳樹越委員質詢好 謝謝主席請主席邀請高鐵石董事長石董事長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
4987.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5008.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
委員長 董事長早我們今天針對高鐵這個臨近車廂我們高鐵在9月22號正式施行那迄今不到一個月那也引起了一些爭議那因為在這個政策剛剛宣布的時候事實上本席的辦公室也陸續有接到 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5009.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5027.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這個家長或者親子團體的一個反應因為他們就是對於就是說這個鄰近車廂實施之後對於一些家長帶幼兒的是不是也會遭受到就是這個異樣的眼光就小孩子吵鬧的時候是不是會遭受到異樣的眼光那種壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5027.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5053.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
就造成他們的一個焦慮那所以目前我們就是在施行的近月之後我們也有做了一些調整那在這邊我先請教一下董事長就是說我們在實施這個政策從一開始到現在我們要規範的對象有改變嗎行為跟對象跟委員報告從8月宣布至今的對象都沒有改變就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5054.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5073.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
講手機到玄關使用3C戴耳機就是這兩樣事情對就是這樣子吧可是還是引起了家長的一個焦慮所以可見就是說我們這個政策並沒有很充分的說明到讓這個社會大眾都很清楚是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5075.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5092.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我們在實務上 事實上在車廂裡面跟我們所接到的這個客訴反應我必須說現實上並沒有真正看到這個方面的投訴不過因為大家社會大眾不管你有沒有坐到高鐵可能有這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5093.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5111.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
焦慮那事實上我們也做了一個善意的回應我們會更加的宣導有關於這個寧靜車廂跟友善親子共存也就是說親子友善除了是高鐵的執行方式之外也是整體我們國人旅客大家也要包容小孩是我們社會共同成長的一環 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5112.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5132.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
事實上這個政策出發點是好的利益良善那根據高鐵的這個做的一個民調也有近九成的民眾是支持贊成這樣子的一個政策所以雖然有九成都贊成那我們要去考慮到那一成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5133.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5160.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
有意见的这一些族群他们是什么样的一个意见我们要去考虑到那当然我想这个家长的部分他们有这个疑虑我们就是要去让他们充分的能够了解而且要化解他们的一个忧虑是当然是这个部分我们都会努力来进行对那因为我觉得说我们要去考虑真正考虑到家长的需求跟他们的感受可是说针对网路上恶意的 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5160.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5187.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
網路上惡意的就是說針對這個政策去帶風向因為有民眾反映就是說在網路上有出現說帶著兩個小孩的媽媽被勸離的這樣子的一個創作的文章不曉得這是真實的案例還是我再說明一次在網路上特別指出了他的車刺那所以會更讓大家覺得好像是真的那也因為指出了車刺我們馬上請列車長以及車主成員做了一個調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5188.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5211.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
事實上這過程當中並沒有網路所講的事情沒有這一件案例第一個沒有針對特定人士舉牌也沒有勸導家長帶小孩離開那至於說家長是不是可以帶小孩去玄關這是家長他的權利跟自由但是不能應該把這兩件事情惡意的連結在一起我們在馬上當下就立刻的澄清並無此事 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5212.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5230.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那所以很遺憾這件事情這個變成好像是一個大家真的信以為真那事實上高鐵在處理嬰幼兒跟孩童的親子的作為不是在寧靜車廂這個政策開始才有這個問題事實上在寧靜車廂之前高鐵已經開通了18年 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5231.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5249.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
大家對高鐵這個品牌以及對於孩童處理的模式事實上應該大家大概都知道我們處理的模式是什麼就是輔導安撫我們並不特別的介入所以我想希望大家也能夠理解高鐵並沒有改變我們會持續推動大家所重視的3C跟講手機同時也會繼續親自友善 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5250.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5274.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
是好那所以就是說針對這樣子一件不是事實的這樣子的網路文章我們希望高鐵應該也要有所作為去追究他的就是不實的這樣子的一個責任散佈不實訊息這樣子的一個責任是好我們會來處理謝謝那我們也看到就是說高鐵在針對這個政策也有做一些優化的一個措施這個本席是肯定的就是說包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5275.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5302.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
勸導執行模式的一個調整我想這個是有需要的就是如同剛剛我們蔡啟昌委員所說的這個人員的一個教育訓練的部分我想這個是有需要的那另外我想再請教一下就是說因為這個臨近車廂推動之後我們利益良善不過還是引起了一些爭議那據瞭解我們高鐵後續還會有兩項新的政策就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5303.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5310.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
取消彈性對號座跟自由座指定車次是不是這兩項新的政策有預計要實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5311.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5334.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
首先第一個就是所謂的這個對號座這個必須要換票才能夠這個提早達成這個是即將上路那事實上也跟大部分的這個社會大眾做了說明我們以網路上所瞭解其實大部分大家都可以理解那很重要的原因是因為現在事實上高鐵是一票難求你不是不可以提早達成是你提早達成必須要退換票 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5334.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5349.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
為什麼因為你如果不退票的話你這一張票就是換票可能就是來不及有可能是差三分鐘車子要開了他馬上衝進去是很不好意思但是因為你現在不退票會造成這張票事實上別人也沒有辦法購買就等於是一個人佔了兩個位置 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5351.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5376.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
那以現在我們的搭乘的這樣子的一個擁擠的程度我們必須要珍惜每一張票珍惜每一個位置其實也就是為其他人提供機會這是第一件事情第二個就是您剛剛提的指定車是自由席我們事實上還在研議當中並沒有明確的實施日期這個其實最主要是針對超尖峰時刻我們目前在月台上的擁擠程度以及對號座都有站立的狀況的一個考量 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5377.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5396.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
我想自由坐的一個選擇對乘客來說除了票價的考量之外我想就是說時間彈性跟這個迅速就是說它的行程上的一個迅速的一個掌握我想這是很重要的一個因素啦所以自由坐如果說要指定車式就不叫自由了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5397.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5423.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
所以我還特別說明這是針對超尖峰時段超尖峰時段就是這是不得已比如說這個廉價的這個收價的那一天的前一天那個下午事實上是非常的擁擠我覺得這個方面應該可以去思考不同一個方式來做一個調整因為我看我們最近的這個就是在就是車站裡面好像也有做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5424.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5445.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
排隊的一個規劃區我想這應該就是可以另外一種彈性的一個做法所以我們現在各種方式都在模擬演練因應我們希望能夠維持旅客本身原本的便利性跟自由性到最高的地步我想就是說因為在臨近車廂這個政策一推動之後就有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5447.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5465.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
爭議 讓他造成一些社會的一些就是擾動 那我們不希望說一波未平一波又起 所以就是說新的政策的實施一定要審慎的一個考量謝謝委員的提醒好 謝謝施董事長 那接下來我邀請一下那個運動會的林主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5472.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5493.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
主委早安那最近就是發生一件這個長榮航空就是有一位空服員在執勤的時候就是發生身體不適的狀況那後來就醫但還是不幸過世的這樣子的一件不幸的一個事件那我想這件事情引起很多的討論跟關注就是說有關航空產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5495.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5504.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
這個空服員尤其是空服員的這個請假或排班制度是不是有需要檢討的一個部分畢竟這個空服員 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5505.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5526.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
他的這個健康也是關係著整個航空安全一個重要的因素因為我們看有一部分這個統計就是國際航空運輸協會的一個統計超過60%的機上事故當中空服員的即使應變成功是可以避免傷亡的所以對空服員他們的 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5527.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5549.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
職者來說他們不只是提供這個機上的服務而已他們重要的一個任務另外一個重要的任務也是維護這飛航安全跟處理緊急狀況就是說在這個駕駛艙外的一個第一線的一個人員所以這個是非常的一個重要所以在這個事件發生了那我們是不是也應該要去重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5550.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5560.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
去了解關注這個航空業到底發生了哪些問題雖然沒有直接涉及到航安那我們是不是預安會這邊是不是也有可以有一些作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5561.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5587.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
包委員 我們差不多每一件的會養事務的調查都會涉及疲勞架式或者是排盤表的這個統計分析那麼醫療會的一些事務調查跟那個改善建議的資料我們都會延伸起來做應用如果這個系統這個Database夠的時候我們就會做一個專案研究 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5588.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5607.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我想就會把它變成一個一個案子來變通案然後會跟主管機關就是棉行局會跟他們講說這個可能涉及有涉及系統性的風險等等一般都是這樣做主委那個我請教你就是就運安會的職責他只針對事故的調查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5609.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5629.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
事故的調查所拿到的資料跟改善資源資料會變成累積一個足夠的那個母數的時候我們就會延伸出來應用做專案研究就變成一個研究報告出來因為就我們院會的這個執掌裡面他有很明確的一個規範就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5631.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5649.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這個運輸事故趨勢分析運輸安全改善建議是追蹤及運輸安全專案研究所以我們不一定是說在事故發生之後才可以去進行研究而是針對特定的議題或者是現象我們就可以針對這個部分去進行運輸安全專案研究嘛是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5651.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5674.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
對特定的大眾所關注的案子我們是可以去蒐集但是一般我們有因為有事件有調查嘛我剛剛報告那有一些資料被蒐集完之後會做得比較快如果說從因為我們的主要工作還是調查嘛那如果要為了這個不是屬於調查事故調查的案子特別去蒐集的時候就要要有一些計畫性的一個一個規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5676.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5685.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
因為這個是涉及到航空的一個安全嘛所以你認為這個空服員的這個健康狀況跟航空的安全有沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5686.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5708.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
當然有關係 這個依照航空系會場作業管理規則民航局的標準組他們都會去去檢核嘛 查核嘛那這個是屬於他們的職責是所在但是這個案子如果是屬於跟班表跟疲勞分析有關係的話我們會跟他跟他合作 看他怎麼樣來讓他更不要 就事情不要再發生了讓他有一個趨勢的分析出來這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5709.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
5737.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
我想就是我們運安會也曾經針對飲水作業與管理安全議題提出這個研究報告所以提出這個專案研究並不是沒有案例可循所以這個部分我們也希望就是說主委不要說把這個完全就是已給這個民航局去處理 不會就我們的職責的部分我們也應該去做一個瞭解然後提出專業的一個建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
5738.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
5766.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
讓就是確保這個空服員的他的一個權益我想這個跟他們權益跟健康都有很重要的關係我們會找美容局一起來看看怎麼樣幫助他們把這個案子變成一個議題式的關係就好我想有很多的問題都是需要跨單位跨部會去合作的不是單一個單位的一個問題所以這個部分我想這個也是一個很重要的問題我們希望運行會這邊也要主動的去關心跟瞭解 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
5767.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
5791.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
是是謝謝委員好謝謝好謝謝來接下來再請許智傑委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
5801.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
5815.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
主席大家好 我們請那個施董事長董事長請委員長那個董事長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
5816.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
5846.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
我想臨近車廂這件事現在社會都在關注那其實我們還是肯定高鐵處理這個臨近車廂這個問題當時我跟邱志偉委員還有多位委員提出這個臨近車廂的訴求我們是針對大人跟使用3C產品當時的確是有很多人在車上講電話很大聲或是有很多人在車上 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
5847.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
5869.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
交談很大聲我就想說其實這個是公共空間怎麼講話這麼大聲自己都不會約束一下所以當時我們的用意其實都是出自善意是 當然那我也相信我們石董事長高鐵這個臨近車廂的訴求事實上也是善意所以我是覺得該肯定的還是要肯定是 謝謝那當然就是說有一些讓家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
5871.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
5897.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
突然覺得說好像小孩子有時候在裡面的聲音無法控制這個我們也體諒所以施董事長也提到就是說我們有一些包容對小朋友有一些無法控制的講實在話小朋友有時候不是家長說他叫他不要講話他就不要講話的那這個部分其實我們也多一點體諒跟包容我們一開始就已經說明清楚說是不包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
5898.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
5921.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這個小朋友對所以我們其實這一個寧靜車廂的用意也是希望說就如我們一開始的本意一樣就是說大家互相可以呼籲一下就是寧靜車廂是必要的但是體諒小朋友包容小朋友也希望說大家可以在這個人際面可以互相學習跟包容我們也會持續推動下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
5922.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
5936.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
對 這個理念其實我們是可以接受的那當然也希望說家長們不要有這麼大的壓力也希望說大家可以體諒家長有時候小朋友的聲音大家可以稍微體諒一下那當然有一些小朋友在看3C產品的那就不行啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
5937.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
5960.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
是因為你如果我們我剛講我們針對交談有一些小朋友他在車上看山西產品是開開聲音的那個當然就我們也我們一樣希望是用耳機對所以就是說讓家長也了解一下就是說大家對小朋友的體諒我們是有的這個希望說高鐵可以繼續宣導謝謝委員那另外就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
5961.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
5972.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
台鐵這個親子車廂還有底下那個是瑞士的鐵路的親子車廂這個那個董事長應該知道吧是我知道那高鐵有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
5974.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
5998.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
設停止車廂希望委員會讓我稍微簡單說明我想停止車廂這個在國外這個的經驗最主要是針對長程長程事實上對孩子來講他的這個不安的成分就會更高這是第一個台灣高鐵目前350公里我們平均搭乘的時間是約一個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
5999.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6026.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
平均搭乘的公里數大概是160幾公里所以大概是一個小時所以他相對來講時間是短的這是第一 第二 第三台灣高鐵源自於日本新幹線那我們的車廂跟車體的打造一體成型所以你也看得到就是說日本新幹線是沒有親子車廂的所以我們推動寧靜車廂我們是希望跟親子友善並存在現實的運量的狀況底下我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6026.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6035.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
沒有條件來打造這個如同台鐵的輕直車廂這件要跟大家說個說明我想我們有沒有一個折衷的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6036.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6061.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
就是說今天假設我還是你像台鐵台鐵它現在每週日兩班現在都現在每天平均有20到25班次真的很多那當然我也知道高鐵的困難高鐵不能再加掛車廂那車廂裡面也沒有辦法變動那這個困難的情況之下如果有考慮到比如說像我們有一些高鐵會有彩繪 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6063.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6079.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
車廂外對 那個其實看起來就滿舒服的嘛這個也是一個創意嘛那如果說我列一個車廂在車廂裡面我可以彩繪一下或者是變化一下位置不變但是這一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6080.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6102.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
就是讓家長覺得說我今天小朋友待在這裡如果我有帶小朋友我優先選擇在這裡那當然就是說這個車廂也許會比較吵啦那就是說小朋友大家盡量集中在這個車廂裡面會比較吵但是就是說我們用一些彩繪用一些孩子喜歡的來吸引孩子去 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6103.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6132.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
跟委員報告我想我們會來繼續研發也接受社會各界的提案是不是能夠有更多的方式跟工具能夠來幫忙一起來安撫轉移小孩的記錄毅力這個部分我們都願意來研究甚至該付出的成本我們也願意不過把車廂跟各不同的人做不同的安排這件事情我們會比較謹慎因為其實即使是在家長團體民間團體也有不同的意見因為這可能會研發其他更多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6134.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6153.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
問題 所以這個部分容我們這個可能更謹慎的來研議 好不好就您思考一下啦 因為是覺得這個至少家長在那邊會比較沒有壓力啦那當然就是說有其他的團體考量就是說你會不會有歧視 那當然我們絕對不是歧視啦而是讓小朋友有一個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6154.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6177.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
他到這邊就是說我們當然盡量約束啦或者盡量讓小朋友學會替他人著想這個是我們必要的教育觀嘛但是有時候沒有辦法的時候至少家長在那裡壓力會比較小那有沒有這個可能我們希望高鐵再研究一下那這個我想很多人重視希望能夠盡快有答案好謝謝謝謝謝謝我們請那個運安會來運安會主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6188.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6210.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
主委好 主委其實我對運安會我記得我提過很多的問題運安會的主委也都跟我說會研究會考慮但是最後好像沒有什麼多大的差別我不知道是主委是忘了還是對我們的質詢沒有那麼在意 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6212.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6238.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
你可以看到像我們針對這個公共運輸像本席在114年5月29日提出的這個三峽車禍的事情那主委也答應說要縮短調查時間提供換照建議那現在你們給我們的回覆是這樣調查報告會提前半年預計明年5月出爐那我看你們原來的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6240.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6263.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
原來的規劃報告時程初步報告事實資料報告最終報告最終調查報告預計在2026年5月發布那你哪有提前你就照你原來的計畫你說要縮短沒有縮短我們會加快人力然後我們去問我再跟主委報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6264.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6275.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
我們去問說去問你們說你上一次說會把資訊提供給委員參考結果現在問你們裡面你們裡面給我們答覆是說這個請詢問交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6277.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6300.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
你是指高齡教師這個部門嗎後來我們有跟交通部說一遍然後我們知道最新的資訊是這樣子交通部他在今年的10月1號有發布新的規定他說115年的5月會開始實施70歲以上的民眾要換照然後要通過體育檢查等等這個我其實也知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6302.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6328.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我的意思就是說其實你在諮詢台上所答應的事情所要考量的事情你們應該就是說你取得講出來就說要做 你就是做嘛你其實你把資訊提供給我們委員會給我們委員有什麼困難嗎你即使是交通部已經有這樣子預定 擬定 雖然還沒有實施那我們問你們 你們就一句話說你們詢問交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6332.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6357.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這個不是一個負責任的態度那再來就是說我在最後一點就之前其實我有跟主委講過類似河安會事實上人家現在在華山在恆春辦很多這個宣導的活動辦得有聲有色我記得我也跟主委講過主委也說要考慮來辦結果到現在講很久了都沒有結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6360.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6378.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
還是說主委在這邊回答了以後回去就忘了還是我們的幕僚就主委的回答應該有後續追蹤讓委員知道一下我想這是一個基本的態度是不是主委這個部分可以要求一下我們的相關的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6379.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6391.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
你底下的人以及你自己對於委員在質詢上所質詢的是不是應該要有個回答的機制讓我們能夠清楚就是說你在這邊質詢的結果如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6393.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6418.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
我們去年有呼應委員的這個要求在高雄有辦一個醫師安全資訊教育研討會有關鐵道的部分去年有辦 那另外我們科普我們也今年準備要辦那個鐵道事故調查論壇都有那另外那個藝術協會他會有辦研討會的時候我們也會在那個場合上做相關先導這個做的可能還不夠多啦但是我們會加強 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6420.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6426.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
運輸協會這個是你們是搭上線的不是你們主動的是我們主動跟他講說留一個時段給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6431.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6452.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
這個辦理我想你們將來可能調整一下如果有別人辦的活動你們有去努力多了一個什麼項目當然這個也是你們的努力這個是不是要跟大家委員都講一下有時候我們去那邊不知道你們在裡面這是別人辦的場不知道是你去努力之後多了這個項目 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6454.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6480.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
像這個你們有整理的東西我希望說能夠給委員的資料你們內部要做一下資料的整理讓大家可以清楚那我剛提到的就是說這個報告的時程啦以及這個我們台上的回覆啦需要提供給委員的資訊也希望說你們這個可以整理一下該給委員的資訊就是主動給委員這個不是很困難的事嘛對不對這個希望說可以改進啦好 謝謝 謝謝委員長好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6483.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6503.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
好 再請運安會針對剛剛委員所提出來的事項有資料提供再請提供好 謝謝接下來請何欣淳委員 咨詢謝謝召委 那我首先先請史哲董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6510.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6538.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
委員長 董事長好首先知道這一陣子大家對於您推動的寧靜車廂這個文化這個大家有一些意見跟爭議那我想大體剛剛前面幾位委員都曾經跟你討論過我當然知道高鐵公司是用意良善那但是呢卻在這個執行的過程當中確實有一些必須要再更優化改進的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6538.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6555.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以對我來講我認為高鐵您想要推動的寧靜車廂重點不是在寧靜兩個字而已重點應該是一個友善尊重的搭車文化因為我看過在高鐵裡面因為我每天都搭高鐵台北台中兩邊跑 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6557.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6581.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
確實過去講話很大聲的山西追劇的也放得很大聲甚至光是手機的鈴聲就好大一聲本來在睡覺的人都被他吵醒了確實這樣子的一個類似好像大家只有意識到自己沒有意識到旁邊還有其他人的權益這樣子的一個搭車文化需要再更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6582.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6605.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那這樣子的更好就是在執行措施方面我們的方方面面沒有周全所以才會引起有嬰幼兒有小孩子的家長年輕家長的焦慮董事長 寧靜兩個字本身在那一個車廂裡面就會讓人家有壓力因為寧靜表示一點聲音都不能有 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6607.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6631.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
董事長你懂我的意思嗎所以我會認為說其實我們要改進的是搭車的文化是尊重的文化是友善的環境那我們當然用這樣子的一個政策宣示說寧靜車廂來做一個宣導但是我覺得還可以更好或者是可以用其他的方式或是字眼來推動董事長你覺得呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6633.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6641.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
是 陳如委員所講的 我們確實的重點一開始就序名的很清楚就是三點 第一個就是3C戴耳機 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6643.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
6666.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
電話去玄關再來就是希望大家交談放低營養可是董事我跟你講為什麼大家沒有注意到你講的這三件事因為呢在你們的推動的執行面上第一個只有在你們網站上面有宣示這三點第二個雖然你們在高鐵的每個車廂每個座位上都有一個宣導卡但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
6667.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
6679.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
以你自己的設想會有多少人 多少比例坐上高鐵那個位置會拿起前面的那張卡來看你認為呢 你有做過調查嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
6681.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
6700.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
這張卡上面也是寫這三點但是有多少人會拿起來看所以我們也特別拜託我們的車安保全拿了一個可愛的牌子也是寫這三點來提醒大家其實這是為了讓大家了解說我們宣導一個政策執行一個政策不是不叫而殺之我們也近期可能但是宣導的時間確實不夠久 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
6703.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
6728.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
是 所以我們初期都是用宣導的因為從您當董事長宣示這個政策到執行我記得是9月22號執行那中間不到應該沒有一兩個月的時間吧差不多一個月的時間一個月的時間而已對不對那一個月的時間我剛剛在提醒你了到底有多少乘客坐上那個位置之後會把前面的那一個宣導卡拿起來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
6729.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
6746.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
第二個你們的宣導我在提醒還是只有在網站上面其他的宣導沒看到所以你的宣導期的那一個月第一個時間不夠長第二個宣導的方式不夠多元第三個宣導總結就是沒有到位 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
6747.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
6770.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
所以才會引起大家覺得有壓力而且會誤解這是第一個 我覺得還是要請你優化改進這是第一個那當然在大眾很多年輕家長的一個要求之下當然你們現在正在改進那我再提第二個就是我在高鐵上每天搭高鐵我看到的另外一面就是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
6772.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
6795.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
確實為什麼這些年輕家長會有憂慮而且會有壓力是因為呢很多的年輕家長有時候是父母雙方有時候是單一不管是爸爸或媽媽一手抱小孩一手推娃娃車那我上下高鐵甚至我想上下台鐵都是一個很艱辛的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
6796.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
6813.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
是對不對那尤其娃娃車有大有小對不對爸爸也許力氣還比較大媽媽自己我曾經看過一個媽媽自己抱著一個嬰幼兒後面跟著一個小小孩在拿著一個娃娃車 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
6814.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
6836.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
沒有人幫他那我們想幫他卻也碰到一個問題就是呢第一個走道狹小第二個呢這個歐阿車要幫忙呢行李區滿了所以呢我們現在的一個困境是在於我們不是只是在推動一個友善環境而已而是要打造一個友善環境 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
6837.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
6858.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
不是只有推動喔 是要打造這也就是剛剛我聽到不管是蔡其昌副院長或者是李昆哲召委都在提他們過去跟台鐵推動了親子車廂的一個打造一個友善親子友善孩童的環境的交通運具 這個很重要所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
6859.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
6876.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
這是我看到的也是為什麼年輕家長會有焦慮的所以我會提另外一個建議除了我剛剛講打造除了車廂我們可以去精進那APP訂票因為現在年輕的家長家庭他們習慣用手機訂票 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
6877.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
6900.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
我發現你們確實在教育訓練裡面還有在你們的這個旅客的一個注意事項裡面有一個因誘而推車自放行李需求你們有告知說如果有這個需求可以買票的時候告訴這個售票人員但是我必須要提醒這樣子的一個注意事項也只在你們的網站而已第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
6902.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
6930.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
你們的售票人員並不會主動的詢問所以也必須要我年輕的家長我呢如果真的有上網去看到這樣的一個提醒我去買票的時候臨櫃人員我要跟他講好我有講你們才知道這個需求這個叫什麼你們變成是被動的在服務旅客那有大部分的年輕家長可能沒有注意到這一個原來你們有提供這個服務那所以呢他使用他的APP |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
6932.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
6938.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
購票但是在你們APP數位客服裡面並沒有任何的清止功能 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
6939.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
6967.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
所以董事長我是提一個建議因應數位化的現代因應現在年輕家長他們使用數位購票的這個頻率高是不是在你們的數位客服裡面可以再增加一個更友善親子的一個措施不管是在你們的哪一個服務申請上多一個這個可以讓年輕家庭點選讓所有的有 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
6968.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
6977.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
嬰幼兒的 有小小孩的年輕家長可以感受到高鐵的貼心服務可以嗎 董事長我覺得這是做得到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
6978.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
6998.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
謝謝委員的關心 我想現實的狀況是雖然現在MAPB上沒有這個填選服務但是在車上我們基本上我們的服勤組員看到有嬰幼兒推車的問題其實都會屈前幫忙甚至我都會看到經常是有幫忙推跟拿的這個狀況因為我們在我們的客服系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
6999.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7020.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
經常也會接到年輕的爸爸媽媽打電話來表示致謝至於說能不能在APP上產生這樣子的欄位這個恐怕要容許我們回去要研究一下因為這個有涉及到權力義務的問題這個已經不只是一個協助這個是一個服務的你們寫的查詢或服務申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7021.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7045.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
是但是一旦變成是勾選它就會變成是一個權利義務的關係那我們這個要考慮到沒關係你可以研議我是建議的列車上的這個服務能量因為現在數位化的時代來臨年輕家長習慣就是用數位化訂票那在訂票的時候這個服務現在是你們是被動的必須售票人員有人跟他提示他才知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7046.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7071.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
那如果可以主動的讓年輕家長知道可以有這個服務的申請這是第一個第一個申請的時候讓你們馬上就心裡有準備就是在你們的教育訓練裡面透過網路系統數位的系統你們就會馬上有因應措施這是第一個第二個我必須要講因為提早讓你們知道有這樣子的需求你才會去知道說 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7072.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7088.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
如果我的行李驅滿的時候該怎麼辦我是不是應該可以及早的來因應我車廂裡面的娃娃車的放置甚至現在還有什麼貓小孩的娃娃車那還有呢你剛剛其他委員提到你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7088.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7109.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
現在舊型車廂裡面的行李區是常常是爆滿的很多旅客的行李都不知道該怎麼辦的情況之下你剛剛有承諾說也曾經承諾我之前提到的在新的車廂新的列車裡面車廂的設計行李區要再優化再改進嘛所以我現在在體驗是說其實有很多方方面面 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7110.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7138.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
去盤點哪些措施是可以讓高鐵的這個搭乘的環境更友善這個友善呢不僅僅是只有對家庭對親子友善對長者長輩友善對身心障礙的人友善我想這個都是一個彼此尊重的一個好的一個交通運去環境也是高鐵必須要達到的一個理想理念的落實我覺得這對高鐵來講是一件 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7139.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7165.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
必須要做的事我們會來研究好不好我等一下會有臨時提案再請你來支持那最後的最後我再提醒剛剛講的你們的宣導尊重123乘車123如同董事長講的你們都在網站上有講那你們也都有人舉牌在講但是我認為這個有一個東京都的官方的友善觀光酒措施他們是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7166.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7180.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
東京都政府所狹下的很多的管得到的看得到的角落他們會想盡辦法讓人看得到我覺得這是一個友善宣導的一個好的措施好的我們就要學好不好以上謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7185.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7202.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
好謝謝看起來今天非常多使用者經驗的提醒好來謝謝那我們先宣告一下等一下質詢到魯明哲委員之後我們休息10分鐘那休息回來之後來處理臨時提案好接下來請林俊憲委員質詢感謝主席本期邀請我們高鐵高鐵是董事長市董事長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7220.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7235.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
委員長董事長你好董事長這個想不到高鐵這個臨近車廂竟然引起社會很大討論我看也驚動了我們召委今天還特地排了一個專案大家來討論這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7238.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7261.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
當然其實我也是高鐵的算是重度使用者而且我來自於距離台北大車最久的站台南高雄特快車還比我們多很多所以我是覺得這次的臨近車廂引起一個最大誤會就是好像是針對幼童 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7262.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7276.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
事實上沒有事實上沒有而且個案上高鐵公布的統計個案幼童也很少我看高鐵的統計主要三個樣態車廂內講電話49%這個佔了快一半是對不對大聲交談佔了27%使用3C沒有佩戴耳機24%是那因為幼童 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7290.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7305.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
然後來就是說然後來處理的案件很少啦就只有零星個案 是不是這樣子是 我可以跟委員報告我們到8月為止我們平均來講我們幼童也就是12歲以下搭乘高鐵的比例是2.3%對 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7307.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7328.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
2.3意思就是說一台全滿的車事實上總共幼童只有20個人分配在每一個車廂其實只有1到2人所以這個也如實的反映說為什麼我們在這個這個勸導案例的分析裡面一天的幼童案例只有零星個案但是他雖然少但是他的意見我們一樣重視 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7329.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7351.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
但是會引起社會討論就是有的人誤會是說你推行這樣的零件車廂會造成驗童事實上是沒有所以這個誤會一定要先澄清親子同行也是我們重要的課員沒有錯所以我看高鐵有一個車廂還把它畫得很可愛是就讓小孩子看著也高興這當然是歡喜兒童 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7353.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7380.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
但是你一不小心就會形成討論就失焦了變成一種社會對立那對立到什麼程度呢高鐵上面這個臨近同行這個車牌臨近的牌子現在高鐵把它撤下來我知道你撤下來是因為很多人會拿這個牌子去給隔壁看就是說如果你知道聲音乘客對乘客我就拿這個牌子給你看這個臨近車廂 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7382.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7406.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
所以你現在不敢放這張電話那表示你推行有問題但是我也是有放一張這張沒有啦我這張有這張有啦也是一樣有放這張你放這張變成大家都拿起來互相看所以我們其實都有放這個也不錯我們只是把它變成比較軟化比較可愛我不用制止你我拿這張給你看鄰近同行美好高鐵鄰近同行是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7411.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7428.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
這個其實我覺得我們高鐵同仁的教育訓練也很重要你告訴我們同仁 同仁說如果遇到有必須要處理的時候那大概也是什麼樣的樣態要怎麼SOP高鐵已經開通18年了事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7428.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7447.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
幼童的問題不是始於今天事實上所有關於車上各種樣態的處理事實上高鐵的同仁事實上都有一套SOP也行之多年我們平常也有經常性的客服跟客訴的統計如果遇到你講的這三個我相信高鐵同仁沒有問題你說的開通18號遇到車廂內講電話的 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7451.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7473.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
大聲交談使用3C沒戴耳機的我覺得都不是問題那遇到如果有小朋友在哭鬧吵鬧的那這個要訓練那我們高磊同仁怎麼處理我想高磊同仁基本上是秉持著協助安撫的角色來進行基本上我們不會主動去介入我們也必須要承認 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7475.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7494.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
比較年幼的孩童他的聲音其實也是這個社會共同的一環這個沒有辦法說有任何強制性的做法所以這個做法其實已經行之多年不是死於今天大家也都知道說我們確實會碰到一些小孩子的問題可是大家互相包容高鐵也盡其可能的安撫處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7496.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7518.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
其實台灣人的素質全世界最高大家都可以彼此的尊重包容絕大部分人這個絕對沒有問題只是你遇到小H的時候確實我們的同仁你要讓他告訴他們那怎麼來處理又或者啦台鐵有一個做法我覺得高鐵是不是可以考量一下就所謂的座位就是你買買車票的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7525.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7546.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
我們有辦法考量到說如果你有帶小孩因為有些父母他也會覺得我自己不好意思啦因為小孩子會發出聲音嘛那有時候有些爸媽我也曾經遇到隔壁的一直跟我們道歉我覺得那個父母也非常好啦那像台鐵就是我有幾個座位就是這裡面如果你有帶小孩我讓你來特別來買這裡的座位 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7548.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7572.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
那跟你同車廂的客人你心裡就要知道這個車廂裡面有座位是特別化給有孩子同行有帶孩子的家庭來買車所以也希望你特別有包容心的我覺得台鐵這個做法不錯可以給高鐵做個參考就是他在哪一個車次 哪一個班次 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7573.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7593.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
那裡面有畫設可以特別就是說像親子座位這不是整個車廂啦就特別畫有親子座位讓帶小孩的家長你可以來這裡那也讓同車廂的客人了解到這個有親子座 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7594.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7607.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
我們有讓長輩的座位嘛這個也是親子座要坐這個車上的也請大家多多體諒帶小孩的家長我覺得台鐵這個規劃親子友善措施 這不錯 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7610.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7636.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
我們會來研究一下不過因為高鐵本身的這個進出但是因為這個你不必改它的硬體啦要叫你做親子車廂你不可以啦沒有辦法做到像台鐵那樣因為台鐵他是把椅子拆掉讓孩子在那裡坐嘛那我們高鐵恐怕這麼做這個你們一定排斥反彈食物上不可行不困難啦那我體諒你的話不然你也用這個座位不過國際間呢那怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7638.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7665.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
國際當中怎麼處理啊全世界都有類似這樣的大眾運輸的一個問題那這種會在車廂內可能會有形成這種聲音全世界都會有又不是只有我們那別的國家怎麼做英國 德國 日本 美國就世界先進國家的這種大眾運輸怎麼做國際上我比較一下啦我給你看這個表英國 德國 日本 義大利 荷蘭比利時 奧地利 瑞士 法國 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7666.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7694.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
挪威 西班牙都是先進國家如果以這些國家的經濟力來看都是世界比較先進的國家常見的做法都是設立靜音區真的有需要的者你購票的時候我讓你知道你可以買 特別買哪幾個車廂或者是我們相對的我帶小孩的家長我鼓勵你坐哪個車廂那裡有親子座位 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7695.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7705.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
也許你也可以來做這樣的一個推廣尤其在帶小孩在買票的時候如果他是臨櫃買票你們也可以這麼跟他建議或者是高鐵也可以這樣來推廣 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
7707.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
7730.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
或是你在車上遇到的時候也可以請他到那個車廂換個位置也可以我想福地上大部分都是針對長程因為長程確實它的這個忍耐度確實是受到挑戰那高鐵本身的我們平均我台北到台南最長也要兩個小時是 但是高鐵整體平均搭乘時間是一個小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
7731.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
7751.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
那大概只有我們南部其實上是要搭比較久啦台南台南沒有南部高雄特快車比台南都很多台南台南最吃虧你知道嗎這個部分我另外再跟你討論好那今天這個今天這個臨近車廂我想您應該了解到啦高鐵不是要製造對立啦不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
7752.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
7765.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
那也不是說 會讓大家產生所謂厭同你有這樣的誤會啊 到底應該讓人家來澄清是 是 好不好好 謝謝那也特別感謝主席今天特別安排這樣的一個專題啦好 謝謝喔 謝謝好 謝謝好 接下來請魯明哲委員質詢魯明哲委員質詢完畢之後我們休息十分鐘休息完畢回來處理臨時提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
7784.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
7794.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
好有請我們謝謝主席有請我們高鐵公司石董事長市長也有來嘛市長代表好這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
7801.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
7823.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
現在高鐵寧靜車廂的一個政策其實才上路沒有多久一個月時間都不到其實我的觀察點是這樣社會有不同的一個想法去爭論 辯論 討論我覺得都是好事但是我是覺得我是看一位新的董事長到任為了高鐵做了一個決策 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
7824.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
7845.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
然後呢做一個決策其實車廂要3C不能開要保持一定的水準 寧靜其實不是你上任啦其實之前這個就像你講說過去18年親子 小孩子在吵你們的服務員本來就會去協助了都不是現在發生的也不是你的政策新的政策過去如果有人吵 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
7846.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
7864.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
這個他們都會主動去去只不過說你們在這個政策之下從過去的較為被動較為被動有人說他吵較為被動的干預變成你們要求主動積極把一個服務的一個角色變成一個類似警察的一個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
7864.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
7888.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那對不對我坦白講因為我所了解希望搭乘整個高鐵稍微能夠保持安靜的人絕對是大多數啦包括我一樣啦我怎麼想你沒有推這個政策之前本來就是這樣啊那可是你推這個政策之後那我講到現在昨天你這是讓我覺得滿佩服你的 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
7888.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
7906.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
千錯萬錯都是你的錯死則道歉你哪一個錯了目前你承認的錯是哪一個先不要講一千個你先講第一個錯我想讓大家誤解我想這個就是我們來承擔所以我懂了第一個錯是讓大家誤解了你的對的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
7907.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
7931.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
是 我已經講了就是大家誤解誤解 所以你的政策都沒問題嗎我想我們從科學的實證上大家都知道說大家都支持3C的管制戴耳機以及講手機到學校所以石董事長你要知道一件事在這個的部分絕對有90%以上的乘客是支持要保持安靜的車廂 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
7932.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
7959.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
同樣這90%的人也根本就完全體諒同理心小孩子不可控的他的一些呼鬧只要家長安撫的誰會反對呢這兩個東西到現在為止這90%不用表決我覺得不用表決他們兩個立場都同意的所以千錯萬錯但是你要記得一件事你現在所有的動作之前都有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
7960.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
7988.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
政策包括幫忙小孩子甚至有一些的其實我覺得你們的服務還不錯有些不便的人沒有跑步輪椅去推我覺得你們的服務真的不錯啦也不是說你上任的可是在你重新定義之後發生很多社會爭論我覺得直接要去思考所以我想要告訴你千錯萬錯都是你的錯你不是使者你是高鐵公司的董事長當你在講這個的時候我覺得你的員工是最喪氣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
7989.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8016.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
把過去被動式的員工因為你的政策你知道嗎 要變成主動式 要舉牌他的工作量多了兩三倍跟客戶 乘客產生增值的機率增加了幾百倍然後來扛著您命衝了不到一個月我告訴你 你幫他道歉了就是說這些員工的所有的努力就是董事長錯了就是他等於白幹了 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8017.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8038.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
他做了這麼多所以都是錯所以我想我剛剛已經講了寧靜車廂跟親子友善這90%以上的人全部都支持而且以前都在做的那你現在到底什麼樣的做法你說千錯萬錯都是你的錯其實我剛剛講有好幾位委員說了你有12列車廂 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8041.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8056.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
蛇獵車廂你現在這個政策不是叫寧靜車廂你叫寧靜列車好不好就不好意思我講錯了寧靜列車就是貼在車廂上面這廣告不好意思整車除了走廊的位置全部每個車廂都是寧靜 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8058.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8075.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我覺得你要有寧靜車廂是不是在新車我想舊車已經是這樣了新車打造一個台灣模式的不一定像歐洲的家庭車廂不一定像日本的這個叫做富佑車廂我們可以自己的他們有遊戲空間我們不可能一個多小時 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8076.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8103.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
位置少了變遊戲空間 坐不到但是那個透過了彩繪各種的一種視覺的一個親子的這個部分但是坐那個車廂你一個車廂去那邊容忍池就要高一點我覺得在新車還有機會的時候你能夠納入考量好不好好 謝謝我想我們這個我們會來特別研究來注意好 那接下來其實現在這個禮拜搞得很亂 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8105.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8125.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
但是這是一個壞消息因為千錯萬錯你都承認是你的錯但是還是有一個好消息好消息是你看看這個是你們把您那張牌子撤掉了對不對現在變成了一個是不是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8126.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8153.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
是上面寫的還是這三點注意事項是的那那是一本什麼東西那是一張卡嗎你有看過你有看過你坐飛機你的經驗比我還多到任何一個體系你做為這個整個旅遊不光是車整個促銷整個高鐵的旅遊裡面所有的內容寫了這麼多是你花錢找這個不管油家媒體去做的這個報告不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8153.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8172.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
現在沒人打開來看了因為它的功能已經變成一張提示卡就這樣子所有的東西剛剛已經給你看了所有從車廂第一位到最後一位全都是背面就取代你這卡的這個部分我也覺得你這是急救張還是怎麼回事這是一個你們高鐵的一個促銷的刊物 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8173.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8184.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
如果正常 你問我們是正常人好不好是不是擺正面是不是T live這一面對嘛所以現在不正常到底為什麼這麼急我不知道但我最後拜託你因為我看到你 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8188.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8210.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
在剛開始開記者會的時候從寧靜車廂開始你是昂首闊步但是雖然你現在笑容滿面其實你已經走了同手同腳了只是你不知道我不知道要幹嘛把這個刊物轉過來要解決問題我不太清楚是誰想到這個點子但是我現在跟你建議好消息是什麼好消息是兩個政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8211.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8229.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
影響可能更多人的目前為止還沒有上線你真的仔細思考一下11月10號你們預定對號座提前乘坐需要換票我剛剛也聽說了你希望他提前後面的空位啊這沒人補不行啊但我跟你講啊一般在感恩人他就上去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8230.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8248.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我也問啊 你是難道12個車廂門口都載一個人去檢驗別人的票嗎不可能 你回答不可能不可能嘛 所以這個人都上車了但所有人提前上車或者已經會上車沒有人心理準備會有座位所以他就上車啦 後面位置還是空的啊你覺得問題對後車解決了嗎好 第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8252.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8271.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
對於所有離峰時間提前上課的客戶即使有50個座位20個座位空在那裡他買了對號座的是下一班的票現在就上去補票改一下要補錢就補要改票就這樣如果你第二個措施是現場在現場不准 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8272.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8286.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
車上的服務人員不准幫任何人補票即使有空位我跟你講你真的思考一下所有的細節因為寧靜車廂目前被超翻的只是車上辛苦的這個廳 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8288.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8306.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
如果你要接下來另兩個政策你要不讓他進來他提前進來30分鐘吃便當可不可以可是這30分鐘就有三個班次發車了他上哪個班次你到底怎麼阻擋他包括自由坐限制尖峰時間的自由坐如果自由坐他的量就這麼大 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8308.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8332.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
到底會發生什麼問題我覺得不要像第一個現在你已經說了千錯萬錯都是我的錯我們現在等11月10號我真的希望第一個能夠更精緻不要說讓你們在場站人員也去介入了然後又交代車上人員即使有空位執行董事長政策不准給他座位 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8334.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8359.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
你做得到嗎我覺得你做得到之後我覺得這些影響的有可能會超過現在我現在這樣講我不要做事後諸葛所以我今天透過這個時間第一個在新車有家庭的車廂有一個車廂或者親子車廂你們去考慮不一定要減少座位但是透過一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8360.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8379.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
其他的方式來去做可以思考另外兩個政策能不能堅持到底做得完我覺得經過第一次的經驗好消息就是說真的去思考一下思考一下這個問題這是我的建議好 謝謝委員的提醒我們會特別來注意檢討 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝盧銘哲委員謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8386.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8391.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
好 現在我們休息十分鐘休息以後回來處理臨時提案再繼續質詢 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8506.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8506.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8555.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8556.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
應該就是這個 往這邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9004.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9008.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
好 我們現在繼續開會 現在先處理臨時提案 請議事人員一併宣讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9016.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9041.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
臨時提案一 高鐵公司訂定臨近車廂本意在於提供更好的搭乘環境 應將利益良善政策駕以改進以照顧多方層面之需求 原此請交通部與高鐵公司針對推行臨近政策嚴密針對不同車廂提出臨近車廂與親子車廂等不同選擇 讓民眾可依尋求各自搭乘並請於一個月內回復 提案人委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9041.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9059.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
黃健豪等 臨時提案二高鐵訂票系統APP服務 深受旅客歡迎也是國人最常使用的訂票方式但卻無法提供嬰幼兒家長娃娃車行李區需求與選項服務請臺灣高鐵公司三個月內研擬並比照過去服務 論以逐定 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9060.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9062.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好 謝謝 針對第一案我們請教這個委員或是行政單位有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9082.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9111.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
好來王建安委員好謝謝趙薇補充說明我想這個寧靜車廂的政策在上一次的質詢我也表達說是肯定啦但是我們支持的是寧靜車廂那目前看起來這叫寧靜列車所以說我覺得這個是要做一個明顯的區隔說車廂部分我們希望說剛才提出一個做法就是針對某些車廂來做寧靜的部分好了不要說整條整個列車都是因為就像剛剛那個盧銘正委員所提到了嘛現在變成寧靜列車的它不是寧靜車廂好那對於這樣針對親子的區隔這個可能跟何靜淳委員類似就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9113.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9140.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
針對親子的部分可能有另外的考量跟需求是不是也能夠在實務上面提供實際上的這個搭車民眾的需求以上 謝謝好 來 請高鐵公司我們高鐵公司針對這個部分我們會來研議所以是不是可以把那個研擬的擬這個字改成研議就好了好 另外是不是還有這個交通部協調對 協調高鐵公司好 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9142.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9163.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
好 提案委員可以接受嗎好 OK這不管怎麼樣不要變成無限列車就好了啦好來 再來好 那第一案修正通過第二案來 請教提案委員或是這個行政官員有沒有意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9165.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9182.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
來我想針對本案也是一樣就是請加上請交通部協調高鐵公司三個月內那比照過去服務輪椅訂票這個訂高鐵票相關經驗那是不是把這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9184.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9201.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
競速就直接講競速提出優化方案跟措施啦就不要特別鎖死在APP訂票系統好不好 拜託那必須將後續執行狀況書面資料回覆本委員會就這樣好 提案委員可以接受可以好 那我們就修正通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9203.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9227.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
好以上兩案臨時提案都已經處理完畢如果委員有對上述提案補簽列入紀錄刊登公報那繼續進行詢答我們再請黃建豪委員質詢好謝謝主席我們先請高鐵石董事長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9235.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9263.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
委員好董事長好我想一開始也是一樣針對我們高鐵年輕車廂的部分跟舊校園董事長我想今天很多委員都提到當初推動這個年輕車廂當然是利益良善但是我想上路之後很多的家長很多的民眾都在反映可能帶小孩有壓力或者是旅客之間對年輕車廂的定義或對年輕車廂的認知不同所以導致很多的不同的衝突包含很多的網路上的自己的經驗也好或是我個人帶小孩的經驗也好都有相關的狀況發生 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9265.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9287.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
所以當然董事長現在講說這個部分會做調整當然就是說千錯萬錯都是高鐵的錯這個部分我也知道這個事情但是我想我們看到說高鐵在這個事情上面才提到說針對寧定車廂的爭議你們都說民調九成支持這樣的做法但是我去討要有一下資料我們做分析看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9288.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9306.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
民調你的題目裡面當初在問說一年內有沒有搭乘過高鐵的部分在民調的抽樣裡面只有44%的人有搭過高鐵那你抽樣的對象55.7%的人他沒有搭過高鐵那即便有搭過高鐵在第五題裡面問到說這過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9308.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9333.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
一年裡面平均一個月搭乘高鐵次數的比例多少少於一次的又高達55.6%那一到五次的是38.2%換句話說多數的民眾他的高鐵搭乘的經驗跟次數在過去一個月裡面以樣本數來講它並不是最多的很多人都是偶爾搭一下這狀況那再來從這個抽象你可以看到出來說 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9335.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9346.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
第三題在問說這個有沒有搭過高鐵搭 有的人是回到5到11題但是你在問13 14在問寧靜車廂措施的時候這些人包含了他沒有搭高鐵的人他也在回應這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9347.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9364.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
就是說你看喔問你知不知道說9月22號我們有推出寧靜車廂然後有相關的這些做法知道的人只有38.3%不知道的人有61.7%有人不知道這個政策那不知道這個政策的人他還在回應第14題那請問你支持不支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9365.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9393.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
你就沒搭高鐵你就不是我們的TA你沒有在搭高鐵的經驗裡面然後你不知道這個政策你不知道這個政策之後你還可以回答說那你支不支持所以我想這個比例上在這個民調上面你們在做這個客戶分析的時候我想這個取樣我想是一定有一定程度的問題啦就如果今天你要做大家正常使用的不管是這個經濟商也好還是商務商也好我們高鐵是有APP的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9394.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9396.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
今天你有IPP然後裡面有會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9397.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9425.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我們也是會員那至少你可以透過你的APP去抽樣去了解說到底真實經常在搭乘的這群人他到底對於寧靜車廂或對於高鐵的哪些滿意度或不滿意度他的想法是什麼而不是透過這種大型的抽樣民調因為你這個抽樣就像我提到的光是有搭過高鐵的人在你抽樣的民調裡面只佔了44%而已沒搭過的人有55%沒搭過的人又在回應你現在的政策那不是很弔詭的事情嗎董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9426.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9451.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
謝謝委員的關心 現在委員一定對於民調的交叉分析很熟悉事實上民調在技術上是可以把交叉分析做出來事實上經過交叉分析你會發現有搭過高鐵的人在自由這個寧靜車廂的支持度是比沒有搭過高鐵的人還高所以趨勢上是越常搭高鐵的人對寧靜車廂的支持度反而是越高那這個就是趨勢就是很清楚那我是說今天你既然要 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9452.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9479.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
我們要針對說我們搭高鐵的人的這個狀況那就是說你這個抽樣分析裡面的你的交叉分析裡面包含了所謂我剛剛提到的你的九成裡面其中有55%的人他是沒有搭高鐵經驗的我的意思是這樣子對 可是我們如果只把有搭高鐵經驗的人獨立出來他超過 更超過九成因為你今天這個是針對你的客戶我們今天到高鐵公司的客戶我們今天應該是針對說就像我剛剛提到了我們其實下次要做這樣的調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9480.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9505.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
除了去廣泛地做抽樣之外其實我們自己是有APP的是有自己是有會員系統的是應該是針對我們封閉式就是說這個會員群體或這個經常搭高鐵這群人去瞭解他的需求我們也會建立起這樣子的一個調查的管道因為這個親子車廂的問題跟這個寧定車廂我覺得這個政策上並不是互斥的是但是因為執行面上就這個狀況導致說很多人覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9508.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9519.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
帶小孩搭高鐵會有這個影響他會覺得會有壓力然後又有乘客有相關的這些問題所以我們剛剛臨時停下來才希望說那不然因為剛剛 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9520.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9541.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
土民政委員提到了你現在的政策是變成高鐵變成全線叫做寧靜列車我們回到一個問題在董事長你在頒布寧靜車廂政策之前我們回想一下在沒有寧靜車廂政策之前如果身邊的人他看影片不用耳機或大聲宣傳或吵鬧有沒有民眾會投訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9542.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9558.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
會投訴嘛對不對會投訴但是我們沒有法源可以禁止他你現在也沒有法源你現在只是文化政策我們是在我們的跟顧客之間的這個運輸契約當中明定了3C戴耳機以及講手機到選管已經明定出來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9559.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9584.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
我就說那過去一樣他同樣是可以用勸導的方式嘛我就說就在你在正式頒布之前他一樣有勸導的方式可以去做這個事情過去是勸導但是他不遵守我們並沒有執行的法源那你們現在有真的執行的這個狀況是怎麼樣我們有執行的法源就是在我們的運送契約當中已經明定了3C帶耳機跟手機到玄關如果旅客不聽高鐵是可以拒載 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9585.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9608.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
董事長其實我沒有反對這些事情是我想說這個事情是可以的只是說全列包含說針對什麼3C戴耳機這個當然你們要把它放在企業裡面這沒問題那只是說像帶小孩或講話聊天等等在過去它基本上是用勸導的方式那多數的人都會尊重這個列車長的這個指揮嘛在我的經驗來講是這樣子嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9609.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9618.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
那就是說現在既然要推這樣的車廂要推這樣的車廂那要不要針對寧靜車廂的部分去定義明確一點它的寧靜比如說不是只有針對3C |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9619.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9645.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
戴耳機等等他的就是真正的寧靜車廂因為上車尊重其他人不要帶不要把音量不要把這個什麼影片放出來要戴耳機然後不要戴那個這個理論上是一個大車的文化這不一定是法規這是文化問題但是你可能要把它我們本來想像中大家期待寧靜車廂是真正的就是說我一兩節可能上屋車廂或是可能第六節或哪一節等等的他是真正的寧靜車廂包含大聲喧嘩 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9648.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9671.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
講話聊天等等都要都要一定的去去比例去控制這個是我覺得高鐵公司包含說你在費用上去做些區隔我覺得消費者是能夠接受的但是你做全列我覺得這是有一定程度的執行商會有問題啦好不好董事長好我想這個部分委員的意見我們會來思考好董事長謝謝董事長請回那我們先請這個我們今天的主角本來是主角應安會我們林組委 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9678.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9705.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
委員好主委我想最近有發生這個漢市就是長榮空服員這個請假的問題然後他當然這個不幸的往生等等那我們看到說IKEA的這個民間組織裡面有提到說其實疲勞跟過勞屬於制度性的風險那我們在這個目前運安會的這種資源報告的這種東西裡面當然資源報告的目的應該是為了預防跟提出可能潛在的風險來評估說哪些問題會造成這個非安的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9706.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9733.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
Icare有提到說這個疲勞跟過勞是制度性風險的那我想在現階段我們的運營安會的資源報告系統裡面只有這個採購人士勞資關係爭議等等算是可以登錄那過去這些年的基金來講我們目前這個資源報告上線6年了花了440萬那它的簡報的這個數字它的整體的數據也不多所以我要今天想說利用剛好有這個案例發生了過去大家也比較陌生就這種資源報告系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9733.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9759.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
如果今天空服員也好或者是駕駛員也好或是不管是在天上飛的還是剛剛提到的台鐵高鐵或是公路運輸等等的這些員工他如果過勞或他覺得疲倦或覺得怎麼樣他在目前為止他是沒有在資源報告系統裡面對不對對那未來有沒有機會把它列入因為這個是我的建議啦你要把它列入嗎有沒有機會把它列入放進去所謂的資源報告系統裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9760.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9774.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
如果將來有一些案例從個案變成慢慢變成系統性或通案的時候會被列入這個這個目前的統計的這個這個樣本還沒到那個程度 都有可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9775.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9797.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
你說因為員工過勞導致的非安風險還沒有明確嗎如果在調查事件裡面在調查事件裡面如果被撈出來說這個是有可能的話就變成不見你說只有說這個有非安事故或什麼事故會變成會擴大出來所以現在還沒有到樣本數到哪裏去了 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9798.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9813.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
主委你看一下我為什麼特別要講這個是因為這個不是我講這個是國際平衡組織講的就是說他認為說這個疲勞跟過勞是制度性風險那如果今天這個制度性風險沒有辦法在事前或在你們的數據裡面被揭露的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9814.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9840.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
你們怎麼知道你們要怎麼知道有沒有人過勞或是你們要怎麼知道有沒有人我們可以在志願報告系統裡面這個加長宣導說這個請他們也可以提報這樣子的話選項要有啊好像選項是沒有的對不對就是沒有這個選項就是說大家過去當然認為說過勞啦或是說上班時數等等的是屬於勞動部的事情是屬於民鄉局的事情但是今天既然有這個志願報告系統你們是為了評估風險的 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9843.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9872.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
是預防的今天不是說我通報了馬上就要懲處或怎麼樣不是你們的工作不是這個你們工作應該是為了風險的評估嘛今天如果有人過勞有人時數不對要開罰那個是勞動部的事但今天我們運安會我們要處理的是整體的風險風險狀況那如果今天這個風險狀況能夠提前掌握或是你們很明確知道說國內的不只國內就以航空業為例哪家航空公司在哪個航班有特別多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9874.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9897.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
他會來填這個志願報告說我們這個時數有點問題那是不是你們就能夠提早的知道某些航班可能他的排班有問題他的駕駛可能問題他的人數可能問題提前的預防嘛不要說真的事情發生了讓我們再回過來說來檢討什麼法律面等等的要修法等等的這個在你們行政座位上應該就能夠去提前預防啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9898.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9923.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
主委未來可以放進去嗎對 將來事實上本質上支援報告系統這個是沒有限制本來他就可以提保那將來我們可以我們先導的時候可以我們跟業界或者是跟民航局或跟他們開會的時候講說這個應該以後會被拉進來所以主委未來這些不管是空服員也好駕駛員也好是我們這個台鐵高鐵公路運輸等等的任由他們來報好主委謝謝我就是要這個答案好謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9929.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9946.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
好 接下來再請廖先祥委員咨詢好 謝謝召委 麻煩我們請我們高鐵董事長 施董事長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9955.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9977.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
董事長好就這幾天反正大家包括前幾天包括今天在立法院大家都在討論寧靜車廂這個話題那當然經過高鐵的充分說明我們可以瞭解到我們高鐵的目的就是希望每一位乘客都能夠自己去不管是自己去提升所謂的搭車文化的一個理由我想這是最終的一個目的那只是說在過程中在執行的過程中 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9978.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9992.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
或許在表達方面或者是執行上面有一些出奇的一些問題要去檢討那這部分我也認為這是一個好的方向只是說要去怎麼去做得更好而已那再次說為什麼這一次的議題會造成這麼大的一個風波為什麼親子的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9994.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10020.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
會被渲染成大家都好像感同身受是因為長期以來爸爸媽媽在帶小孩子出門的時候因為小孩子不受控嘛所以長期以來包括社會對於小朋友的容忍力造成了爸爸媽媽帶他們到各個場合的時候都會有一個無形的社會氛圍的一個壓力那這股壓力在這個高鐵的寧靜車廂的事件爆發了出來我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10020.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10047.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
不要講高鐵好了比如說我們今天去搭飛機其實每個爸爸媽媽帶小孩子去搭飛機的時候心裡都是壓力很大的我們不知道小孩子在飛機上面他會不會不受控制那我相信這樣子大家都能夠感受到說爸爸媽媽其實這段時間以來一直以來帶小孩出來的時候都有壓力那我相信也包括在推您進車廂之前我相信許多的爸爸媽媽他也不希望自己的小朋友去找到別人啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10047.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10067.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
他在搭之前他可能會思考一下我要不要搭其他的工具這是長期以來社會給這些爸爸媽媽的一些壓力那一部分可能是社會上面給予的集體的氛圍一部分是我今天要跟董事長講的就是一個環境的營造那我知道我們高鐵有發聲明因為有人建議說我們高鐵是不是要設立親子車廂 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10068.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10093.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
那我們高鐵目前是傾向於暫時還沒有規劃那當初的理由是可能是搭乘率的一些問題那我可能可以想到如果說設了親子車廂那小朋友去其他車廂的時候會不會也一樣同樣受到不禮貌的一些對待說你為什麼不去搭親子車廂或者是我在親子車廂不代表我就能夠吵吵鬧鬧嘛有一些人在一般的車廂買不到票那他只能去搭親子車廂的時候那我可能會認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10095.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10122.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
就算是親子車廂但你也不應該要吵到這種程度我可以理解我們在設置的時候我們也怕避免寧靜車廂的一些問題重蹈覆轍但是我認為可以在一些環境上面不是那麼制式的規定上面去著手比如說我們高鐵我們可以他就是有一列車廂我們不要去說他是親子車廂我們不要說我們鼓勵小朋友優先來搭這台列車但是我們可以在 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10123.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10128.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
他的那一節車廂去做一些環境的營造比如說他本身車廂裡面就有一些比較可愛的一些環境貼圖的營造或者是說每一個小朋友在搭這個車廂的時候我們都可以準備一個小東西比如說我們在商務車廂的時候每個乘客都會你們都會有水啊或者是餅乾本來就有這樣的一個配置嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10144.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10149.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
那我們在可能在特定的車廂的時候這個車廂他本來可能看到小朋友我們就會準備一個小禮物給他我們不用說他是親子車廂每個人都可以來搭我們在這個車廂我們也每個人都必須要保持我們的一個搭乘列車公共環境運輸的一個禮儀的文化 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10161.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10177.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
但是我們可以感受到我們這個車廂他對於小朋友是相對友善的我不曉得這樣子的一個想法他不是那麼的硬性那不曉得我們的高鐵公司可不可以朝這樣子的方向就是從環境的氛圍讓我們的爸爸媽媽在他搭高鐵的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10178.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10200.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
他所受到的一個心理壓力是相對起來是比較舒適的 輕鬆的好 謝謝委員 我想請委員剛剛點出一個很重要的事情高鐵已經開通18年過去18年來應該大家對高鐵的服務並沒有感覺有不友善親子所以這一次你進車廂恐怕應該就是委員所講的他其實背後承載的是整個大環境大家的一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10201.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10230.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
期待或者是一些抱怨只是在寧靜車廂這件事情上大家這個找了一個出口而已是所以不完全是高鐵的做法上有什麼改變這個謝謝委員的肯定第二個就是說委員剛剛提到就是說在不設置親子車廂的狀況底下有沒有其他的手法可以強化我們對親子友善的這個對 親子友善譬如說剛剛高鐵董事長你在報告的時候說小朋友吵鬧您可能可以給個貼紙這個可能是沒有劇分車廂這是我們可能過去做的 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10230.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10259.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
是那我想這個部分我們也願意強化來研議我想只要能夠不影響這個高鐵本身核心的目的就是這個高速而且快速便捷的公共運輸的目的那我想我們其實各項的手法我們都願意來精進就是我們其實是很願意幫忙也願意幫忙來安撫用各式各樣的手段只是說這個如果有些方法會造成其他的衝突那我們也誤會我們也會避免 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10260.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10278.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我知道重點是怎麼樣子把我們高鐵的一個我不要說它是因為寧靜車廂所產生的一個問題而是長期以來因為高鐵本來就是給一般民眾他是比較其實一個人到了一個可能比較高鐵的搭乘的費用是比較高的嘛到費用比較高的時候大家本來就會有心理的一個對這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10280.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10306.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
環境的一個期待那同時對這個期待同時的時候也會連帶的對其達成的人他會產生一點心理壓力尤其是帶小朋友的人那我們怎麼在規劃上面能夠藉著不是說批評我們寧靜車廂而是藉由這一次社會對高鐵帶小朋友文化的高度討論下那我們高鐵是不是能夠做一些比過去更好的一些措施讓我們的爸爸媽媽帶小朋友能夠更舒適更放心 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10307.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10325.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
謝謝謝謝委員我想我們會來推動離境車廂跟親子友善並存親子友善那你們目前除了剛剛講的送送小貼紙之外有沒有一些討論中的政策是覺得讓大家覺得我們高鐵在對於親子友善這方面好像真的有在重視我們會繼續研議也歡迎委員幫我們來所以目前還沒有一些正式的方案出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10326.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10342.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
還沒有就除了送粽貼紙沒關係啦我沒有說不好啦因為畢竟小朋友每個小朋友個性不一樣嘛對不對我知道那或許有一些家長不喜歡你對他的小孩做太多的事情我了解啦但是希望說我們連送貼紙也有一些家長會拒絕會認為說這好像有一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10345.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10360.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
就是就每個家長教導小孩的方式不一樣好不好那我希望說從環境的營造方面讓我們的小朋友在搭的時候能夠家長在搭的時候能夠更輕鬆我們來努力好謝謝好那接下來我請我們那個武次長還有我們楊局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10370.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10386.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
市長好那今天請教的就是我們的集總捷運啦已經這個去年2月1號就1月31啦1月31好像就核定了嘛那目前基本設計還沒有核定嘛對不對那目前我們的進度那跟我們的紛爭跟未來的規劃大概是怎麼樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10388.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10405.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
基本設計的部分現在是這樣子新北市政府當然就是工程會要審的啦但是他送上來經過交通部嘛對啊經過交通部我們有看但是他跟當時政府規劃的部分差太多那這部分他們要把整體的環境的搭乘品質提升嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10405.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10422.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
對 但是這個就會跟原來的規劃的不一樣對 核定的內容不一樣所以這部分我們是認為這個應該要再想看看應該怎麼樣才讓跟原來的計畫要能夠核定的要能夠相符這部分我們是跟他請他再做一個考量這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10423.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10446.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
那如果說因為牽扯到了就是修正計畫可能會花太多的時間嘛對不對那個其實這個行政程序我不想講太多啦但是基隆捷運這個案子當初是我們鐵道局規劃我們交通部鐵道局規劃的那規劃後續那就請地方政府去執行結果現在地方政府在執行的時候就變成說我們在嚴格的審查他 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10447.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10471.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
而不是站在一個協助的角度讓怎麼樣讓這個案子能夠更快速的去做推動我跟委員報告我們沒有嚴格審查他這個審查其實要點大家都知道那我們還是會繼續站在協助立場當然我瞭解好像是九月他現在又再報上來我們再來看一下檢視跟當時的中規的內容核定的部分行政合併的內容是不是一致 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10472.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10492.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
當然是有不一致所以你們才會但是如果我說如果這些不一致是不是我們不能送出去的關鍵原因這些不一致變化太大的話就變得不一樣他們是想要可能當初我們鐵道局的規劃他們認為說可以提高更好的一個規格讓旅客有更好的搭乘品質這是好的對不對是不是好的這個很難講 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10496.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10519.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
給更好的大正免職不一定是更好的對 剛剛講的那好不好是有點我希望次長你能夠了解到基隆捷運這個捷運跟其他地方政府自己原本提出的捷運它是有本質上的不一樣這一個基隆捷運是當初蔡英文總統極力推動的那由我們交通部鐵路局去主導的一個案件那不是地方政府提上來的案件那在這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10521.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10547.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
過去這個基隆案 基隆捷運在討論過程中也很謝謝我們鐵道局的一個協助那現在地方政府在規劃了那也只是希望說我們的交通部在後續的審查能夠盡速協助地方政府有一些東西能夠我們知道這個方向是好的我們就盡速把它提送到我們的工程會去做經費的審議如果說有一些後續要再修的我們再來輔導我們的地方政府盡速修總不能一個案子 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10548.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10565.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
中規過了那卡在這邊卡了這麼久我想這個不是過去不論是我們蔡英文總統或者是地方民眾對這條基隆捷運的一個期待在行政流程上面我們能夠協助的就拜託我們交通部盡速的來協助是好謝謝委員我們今天來協助謝謝好接下來請徐富奎委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10584.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10589.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
謝主席有請我們總統府五次長還有台鐵馮總經理五次長馮總經理請五次長不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10600.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10613.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
抱歉 委員好 市長 總經理武安好 我想這個台北車站9號發生的這個一名通緝犯 這個偽裝人皆有那當眾侵犯了一位我們的一個女性然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10613.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10640.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
施暴 然後受到一個很嚴重的一個侵害而且時間長達10分鐘 直到有一個外國外籍的一個旅客見狀報案之後才制止這樣的一個行為我想這個台北車站身為一個國際的一個門面發生這樣的一個事情 我想這個交通部跟台鐵責無旁貸為了怎麼樣強化我們的維安層級的部分我想這個次長跟總經理 針對目前這樣的狀況我們有沒有什麼一個強化的一個措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10641.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10658.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
是 我跟委員報告我想這個事情發生之後我們大概協調貼警局本來大概一個小時巡視大概兩次我們後來協調他改為三次另外他跟那個台北車站部分我們建議所謂的聯防的機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10659.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10675.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
包括我們的員工 還有我們的保全跟他聯合起來 一起交叉了一個巡邏我想讓這個整個的 尤其針對幾個治安的熱點像廁所部分 比較角落部分 我們去做一個形式我想這部分我們要來努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10675.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10690.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
市長您剛有提到這個鐵路警察局的部分是那因為過去我我自己在屏東包含我們的屏東車站跟草州車站也有很多的鄉親在反映他們擔心治安的問題所以都要求我們這個鐵路警察局要設點 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10691.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10705.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
然後要有同仁在那邊執勤巡邏但是因為我知道他們的人力不足啦那所以這部分是不是應該要搭配我們的台鐵的人員還有保安的保全的部分能夠強化這個巡邏的密度這部分有沒有做相關的一個規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10706.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10728.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
我先跟委員報告 剛剛講幾個像特別車站區他本身就有一個分住所在裡面那這部分另外幾個點當然沒有辦法每一個站都可以這樣做那這部分我們大概跟他有所謂跟地區的警察局會有一些聯防就是如果有什麼任何問題即使那個地方沒有鐵路警察局的人駐點 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10729.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10748.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
可以跟地方的警察局馬上聯絡 那剛剛提到的我們的車站的部分 台鐵的部分 員工保全的部分也會配合整個來做一個聯防我想這個提高這個巡邏的密度跟進警率真的才會比較有合適的作用啦不然大家在那裡走來走去都沒人要注意 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10749.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10773.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
尤其有一些車班比較晚到的有些女性她會害怕怎麼樣去強化這樣的一個措施我想這個我們應該要趕快盡快來研議是那因為我們現在發現這個台北火車站應該也有很多這個遊民也都在那邊躺在那裡或是一些聚集那這部分台鐵有沒有什麼樣的一個想法跟措施怎麼處理報告委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10778.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10806.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
我們在這次事件發生了我們也跟鐵警有做一個密切討論那基本上遊民的部分其實是市政府的社會局有在做列管那我們在以往也有統一的規範遊民在太陽出來前他們就要到離開我們車站周邊太陽下山以後才可以在周邊但是戰區內部也不能夠做駐留 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10807.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10835.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
那這一次事件也凸顯了這個管理的部分我們還要再做更嚴謹的處理所以在入境我們現在目前從今天開始全面也加強柔性勸導的一個方式我想我們不是要汙名化我們街友但是因為確實這樣的狀況也會造成很多往來的一些我們鄉親在搭乘這個車輛的時候也會造成一個壓力所以未來怎麼樣跟台北市政府要好好的去溝通這個部分我想台鐵應該要儘快處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10836.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10840.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
好 包委員我們會來積極來辦理好 謝謝 那總經理請問我們請高鐵市董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10850.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10875.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
我想今天這個你也是這個熱門人物大家針對這個寧靜車廂部分也一直在做一樣的一直做一個詢問那我想我們還是藉這個機會要讓你提到說其實你當時提出這樣的一個用意是針對所謂的3C這個談話的部分應該是做這樣的一個宣導那只是可能在宣導上面大家把焦點都放在親子因為包含我自己的臉書也有很多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10876.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10904.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
這個家長也在留言關心這個議題甚至談到親子車廂這部分那董事長這個部分怎麼樣去做後續的一個處理跟改善我想這個過程也是一個我們整體社會教育的過程您背後這張這個圖面的這個照片上面的寧靜車廂這個牌子的下方事實上在這個電視上沒有顯示出來就是寫了三句話第一句話就是講手機自選官3C用耳機 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10905.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10929.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
交談降低音量這裡面沒有提到有關於孩童也沒有提到其他的事情但是大家就會把這樣子的一個小牌子我想可能做了很多的聯想那我想這個部分我們雖然一開始就已經說明說兒童跟這個無自主能力的都不在其範圍之內但是我想這一次透過大家我剛剛也講了可能大家長期也承擔了 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10931.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10949.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
整個社會對於對於社會更好的育兒或者社會的資源更大的期待在這一次大家有一些誤解所以我想我們現在也會持續來進行友善親子的宣導同時原本所謂寧靜車廂或車廂寧靜文化當中有關於3C耳機跟講手機我們也會持續進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10955.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10966.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我想這個部分如果能夠慢慢能夠達成大家像做捷運就是不會喝水跟吃東西一樣那成為我們國家文明的一個指標我想這都是一個大家樂見的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10967.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10987.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
董事長那既然這個名稱有兩極化的一個討論有沒有考慮要換一個名稱我想我們不會特別去換名稱但是我們也不會特別強制說要哪一個名稱大家如果覺得寧靜車廂不適合大家要用車廂寧靜或車廂寧靜文化我們也都歡迎因為我們在我們制式的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
10988.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11002.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
運送契約當中的規範是很明確地寫的就是三期用耳機跟講手機至玄關至於說如何形容這樣子的我們尊重各方的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11002.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11026.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
其實就是一樣我們不管是名稱是什麼應該重點是在於大家到這個搭乘這個環境的時候怎麼樣去尊重其他人的一個權益問題我想這個是需要我們時間很多特別謝謝委員因為其實像中南部的委員都是高鐵的重度使用者那為了配合寧靜車廂以及這新的措施事實上委員搭乘的時候也都不能進行選民服務 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11028.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11056.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
只能寫LINE所以其實大家是共同全體國人大家一起支持我們這個文化跟這個禮貌文明的一個心理成倍謝謝好謝謝那我們再請一下衛福部我們的莊市長謝謝我想另外一個比較有爭議的一個政策就是討論也比較熱烈的是在於說這個博愛座跟優先座的問題那個市長這部分我們目前的進度做到哪裡因為我看還有很多的車廂名稱都沒有改掉對 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11063.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11086.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
的一個商量 對但是我看有些牌子已經換了有些還沒有換那有什麼特別的考量嗎對 應該是說他目前這個就是寧靜車廂的部分他們已經拿掉了但是目前只有在那個在車座前面有放那個沒有說部外座跟優先席這個名稱的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11087.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11113.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
對 現在已經改成有些人寫了 對但是還是有些有些車廂還是寫我們會再請這個捷運這邊再加速進行我想既然是有做這樣的政策調整應該是要全面性啦 是 避免造成一些這個乘客之間的一些爭端嘛 是 應該現在會進行啦好 謝謝好 謝謝接下來再請王育民委員咨詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11120.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11148.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
謝謝主席我們有請五次長還有董事長董事長請首先我要請教這個次長你知不知道兒少全法33條之三107年就已經三讀通過那目前台鐵其實他有落實這個法令台鐵在106年就設有親子車廂這個次長知道嗎我知道那你有沒有肯定台鐵這樣的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11148.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11152.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
那同樣的問題我要問你就是說台鐵能為什麼高鐵不能台鐵在106年他就開始試辦其實也頗受好評那現在因為寧靜車廂的問題其實有很多的家長提出來就是說他們不希望搭高鐵有壓力因為這次的寧靜車廂的整個這個使者董事長推出來之後他們倍感壓力家長也炸國 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11177.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11204.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
所以高鐵可不可以也比照台鐵就是有指定車廂我們來設所謂的親子車廂這個也是按照我們的兒少全法的精神也是CRC的精神這個部分次長你的意見是怎麼樣是我跟耳聞報告目前了解高鐵那因為乘客量確實是很大第一個車廂也不太夠第二個他的車廂都是從日本一體曾經進來的要去改裝 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11206.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11207.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
這個食物上有點困難 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11208.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11234.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
有點困難但是我想從這裡面車廂剛剛講的親子車廂我想我們可以把它推動所謂的親子友善車廂我想這部分我們會再更加努力可以來演繹嗎好本席要給你的建議就是事實上我也知道這個要改造一個車廂可能要花很大的成本就現行的你可以先指定車廂比如說比較靠近第六車廂的這個第五車廂或第七車廂你就指定他是親子友善車廂 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11235.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11261.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
親子車廂呢你就是讓有帶小朋友的家長他可以優先指定購買這個車廂裡面他們就會比較是在這個車廂第一個他比較沒有壓力在親子車廂裡面孩子講話是很自然的事情而且這個高鐵也說他們會去提供一些友善的措施如果你現在高鐵的各項措施都沒有辦法做到位你的資源集中到這些親子友善車廂你可以做得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11262.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11285.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
之前我也看到高鐵你有卡拉喝你有很多這個很讓孩子看起來會非常開心的很有善心子的你可以先做這個裝置你不見得要改你的這個座位然後另外一個就是你說你要發禮物你要發乖乖要發貼紙我不相信你所有的列車你可以去關注到每一個帶小孩的家長但是當你把家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11286.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11305.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
放到這個親子車廂的時候你的資源就集中你的人員的訓練也可以來到這個親子車廂服務的這一些戰務人員他可以更就是體貼同理然後可以服務的更好事實上這個是在現行的爭議當中我個人認為啦是一個解套的模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11305.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11327.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
你也解除了家長的壓力你也可以去照顧到有一些乘客他的確他需要一個比較安靜的環境寧靜文化本身沒有太大的錯誤但你實施的方法你去忽略掉有小孩的家長這就是一個很大的錯誤你不能造成他的壓力那所以最好的解決辦法就是你可以設置親子車廂 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11328.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11344.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
讓家長帶著孩子就在這個非常友善的空間裡面他完全也沒有壓力這一個我覺得是一個解方那未來高鐵這個我聽到施董事長說未來有新的車廂你可以更進一步你初步的這個先用是親子友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11345.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11367.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
之後的就是真正親子車廂你可以更有創意你可以引領是亞洲我們可以超越日本你不要說日本做不到我們台灣做不到我們台灣其實我們很多都可以超越日本的在你新的車廂裡面你如果可以打造比照台鐵我覺得現在台鐵要給予肯定台鐵在營運虧損的情況底下對兒童是這麼友善親子這麼友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11368.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11384.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
他還你看他打造的這麼的好那我相信高鐵你現在還是有獲利的情況底下未來就是新購入的車廂你可以打造一個示範型的你可以讓亞洲日本韓國的遊客來到台灣感受到說 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11385.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11399.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
哇我們日本韓國做不到的台灣做到了次長你覺得這樣的一個想法有沒有可能付諸世界我跟委員報告我想一個運輸業他的相關的要滿足各個面向的族群的一個需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11401.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11415.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
剛剛提到說要另外設置所謂的親子車廂我覺得這恐怕我們就讓高鐵再去比較細部研議為什麼我覺得這個一這樣做的話可能會牽涉到後面有很多影響就讓他們去研議你們可以去研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11417.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11447.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
我今天要講的重點是一個是我們法令是有相關的規定我們希望友善親子而且現在少子化真的我們在各項的公共運輸要更去體貼帶小孩的家長這是第一點所以台鐵我要肯定他們現在其實已經做到了他們其實落實法令高鐵是大家社會對高鐵有更高的期待我相信高鐵其實也做得到那這個可以有時間讓你們研議但是我不希望對外表態的時候說完全不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11447.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11475.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
不可行我覺得這樣子就有點這個沒有把未來少子化或友善親子真的納入思考我覺得交通運輸還是很重要的一環這一方面因為衛福部也已經新聞給交通部了我希望你們兩個部會好好的來研議因為回應少子化友善親子如果大家嘴巴都說這個是我們該做的事情那我覺得就付諸行動找一個實際可行的方案出來好不好次長可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11476.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11498.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
改裝的部分我是真的跟委員報告真的是比較困難啦剛講如果說要設計整個環境我想這可以讓我們再跟高鐵再想看看怎麼去好我希望你們好好去研議好不好這個是在現在社會現在有一些衝突跟爭議當中我認為是一個第三條路可以的解方你們好好去考慮好謝謝好謝謝委員好謝謝來接下來再請張家俊委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11516.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11543.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
謝謝張偉我想請這個伍次長還有我們的這個史哲董事長我想今天早上也已經有非常多的委員都已經提出了有關於這個寧靜車廂的議題那我必須要講真的也希望高鐵在執行這個政策的時候要把溫度放到制度裡面去不要讓寧靜變成冷漠而且不要讓寧靜車廂變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11545.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11569.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
靜音車廂靜音 嬰兒的嬰我覺得說當然這個跟我們的公民教育也很有關係也不完全是高鐵的一個責任但是我必須要提醒就是說我自己本身也是高鐵的常客我幾乎每天都往返台北雲林那我可以理解說很多乘客他想要安靜的搭車的這個心情 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11570.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11596.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
但是我本身也是一個三歲孩子的媽媽我能夠理解說很多在這個年紀的孩子他是沒有辦法完全安靜的那尤其這種這個政策可能會對於家長帶來的心理壓力你要想其實這個政策原本出發點是一個美意但是在這個執行的結果卻帶來一些比較冷漠比較殘酷的這個風氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11599.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11622.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
可能會在很多就是有家庭的這些有小孩子的家庭喔帶來一個很濃厚的壓力你知道嗎本來爸爸媽媽帶小孩出行你知道多少孩子想要去搭高鐵嗎他們對於搭高鐵是很有嚮往的覺得哇 我可以去搭高鐵結果沒想到呢美好的高鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11623.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11626.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
是 謝謝委員我想利用委員這個質詢為特別重申高鐵是歡迎親子同行的絕對是歡迎親子同行 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11644.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11662.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這是第一個第二個就是高鐵已經開通18年對面對車上各式各樣的樣態包括這個親子同行可能產生的問題事實上都有一貫處理的過程那大家也大概也都知道這個處理的過程我們過去應該也不曾聽過高鐵在處理這方面有比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11663.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11680.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
是 過去一直我就說了小朋友要去搭高鐵都好高興而且你們的乘務員對孩子也都非常的友善是 所以這個處理樣態的這個SOP事實上都是一樣所以其實鄰近車廂一開始就是針對的就是使用3C戴耳機 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11682.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11702.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
講手機到許護官所以不是針對親子從頭到尾就沒有針對親子也不是針對孩子也不是 對所以我們甚至都講出說孩童或者是無自主能力者不在其範圍之內我們都是盡力而為是那這一方面可能也還要請董事長加強宣導因為我必須要講正常的孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11703.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11717.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
都沒辦法被接受的時候你要想也有一些孩子他是慢飛的孩子也有一些孩子他是自閉的孩子我們都希望說家長多多把他們帶出來我們一直鼓勵說他們要多多帶出來結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11718.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11739.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
假設他們被帶出來反而要接受更多異樣的眼光你要想說對於正常的孩子都是傷害了更何況是這些慢飛的孩子所以我還是很希望說剛才呼應一下那個王育民委員他講的就是說親子友善其實親子友善不代表說你要把那個車廂裝潢的 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11741.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11765.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
小孩子喜歡你只是允許親子家庭去訂購這裡的票那在這個車廂內他如果比較聲量比較大他不會被歧視我並不是就好像剛才那個次長講的說要去裝潢很麻煩呀這一體成型的車輛可能沒有辦法但是你只要給他改個標籤你知道嗎給他改個讓他說 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11769.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11794.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
你親子家庭來到這裡不會被施以這個歧視或白眼那這樣就可以了你甚至都不用改任何的任何的裝飾這對於一般的家庭就是一個很好的relief你知道為什麼嗎當一個媽媽帶著孩子她的孩子發出一點點聲音她立刻就感受到四周圍的目光 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11794.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11818.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
他馬上要道歉要安撫還要全力壓抑孩子的天性的時候這已經構成了一個對一個育兒家庭的很大的一個壓力所以變成汙名化效應啊標籤化效應啊變成好像孩子他就是潛在的麻煩製造者我想這對於我們現在少子化的社會喔是一個不必要產生的一個氛圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11819.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11839.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
跟委員報告我們一定我們接下來也會善盡親子友善的宣導責任在宣導寧靜或者是這個3C跟手機的同時我們一定也會向乙克宣導說我們大家一起共同來包容體諒整體孩子成長的過程好 我們一起努力那我是不是也可以聽次長次長你可不可以也給我們一些正面的回應呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11841.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11867.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
剛剛講這個部分剛剛提其實他們的運送企業剛剛講得很清楚就是山西使用耳機講電話到這個玄關然後再交談音量降低我想完全沒有針對所謂的嬰兒的這樣的一個問題我想這部分我想這個宣導也請市長幫忙共同宣導協助高鐵共同宣導讓更多人知道這個是整個高鐵都是親子友善好嗎謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11869.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
11898.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
好 謝謝謝謝好 接下來再請黃國昌委員質詢謝謝主席 麻煩有請運安會的主委以及交通部的次長林主委 吳次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
11907.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
11933.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
兩位好 道路的設計攸關的不僅僅是行車通暢與否更攸關的是非常多人生命的安全我之前針對陽梅休息站設計不良三年十三起車禍造成七死二十三傷有八件痔狀分隔到我之前兩次提過資訊 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
11935.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
11943.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
我當初啊在提質詢的時候六月交通部高工局堅持說符合規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
11945.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
11973.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我為了要說服交通部高工局為什麼會符合規範我把其他休息站的設計甚至當初你們的設計圖我全部都拿出來我看不懂現場的施工跟設計圖完全不一樣為什麼會符合規範儘管如此交通部的高工局在面對我的質詢的時候堅持符合規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
11976.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12000.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
後來交通部函附說會透過標線標誌改善但是對於分隔島本身的安全未致一詞等到今年9月運安會在針對這件事情進行調查的時候因為他有個調查的歷程報告陸陸續續的出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12003.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12028.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
其中所提出來的事故事實資料的報告明確的說啟用沒有滿4年發生14起事故除非大部分的駕駛人到陽梅休息站的時候特別喜歡違規特別喜歡超速特別精神不濟要不然我根本不知道要怎麼樣解釋這個數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12030.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12057.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
運安會說雜道實際轉彎半徑與竣工圖不符彎道比原設計更小結果交通部還是說設計符合規範9月運安會罕見發布安全通告建議交通部盡速研擬執行優化措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12058.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12085.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
我們來看運安會安全通告的第一點事故落斷道路工程與法規建議值或原設計規範不一致印證了當初我在這個質詢台上面質詢的內容來我先請教一下交通部到目前為止你們是不是不服運安會所提出來的調查還是堅持這個設計沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12088.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12115.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
我想我們尊重運安會那不是尊不尊重的問題 人命關天但是我們認為他的規劃我們檢查結果我們認為是符合規劃來 請運安會的主委交通部好像對你們的認定不是很服氣當初為什麼要成立運安會就是希望有個獨立的機關嗎當初我第一次當立法委員的時候在交通委員會針對普悠瑪的事故我跟交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12116.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12138.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
跟台鐵有很多的意見交換在那個背景下在全民的期待下我們成立了運安會交通部可能是有自己主管的職責他如果承認他如果有疏失的話他可能會擔心後續責任的問題所以我們才承認運安會那現在我有一點搞不清楚狀況啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12139.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12158.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
交通部還是堅持他沒有問題運安會出來的調查結果卻不是這個樣子來請問一下主委那接下來該怎麼辦聽你們的還是聽交通部的我們的事實資料報告的資料是因為用空拍圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12158.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12178.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
那我們的無人機擴拍圖的精密度比較高我們是一公分的誤差所以是不是當時我不知道因為這個還在分析階段嘛是不是當時高工局他們的設計規範跟他們當時竣工所採的標準我先問一下啦你們為什麼會發安全通告 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12178.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12207.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
因為已經陸續又再發生它有系統性的問題然後我們發覺因為已經陸續又再發生就是系統性的問題是主委講到這裡我相信在備詢台上的官員應該可以體會應該可以理解為什麼我當初站在這邊質詢這個問題我們的交通部我們的高工局非常的傲慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12209.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12234.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我不曉得是平視於專業上面的傲慢還是沒有把用路人的安全當一回事我質詢完了以後繼續堅持沒有問題要逼著運安會直接發安全通告出來那如果按照交通部剛在備詢台上面所表示的態度跟立場那運安會等於形同虛設嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12237.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12249.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
你的事實報告交通部也不鳥你啊你的安全通告可能在交通部的眼中根本沒有必要啊你們現在發生事故路段跟本來的設計規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12251.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12275.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
法規的建議值就不一樣了然後還建議交通部高工局檢視行車動線道路及交通工程設施的安全性競速研擬並執行相關的優化措施命安會在這個安全通告裡面已經給交通部這樣的建議了沒有錯吧是嗎 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12277.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12300.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
後來因為我們化了安全通過之後高工局有派總工程師還有幾個他們的相關人員到應當會來拜訪那麼我們也跟他解釋他也理解了他們會立刻採取優化的措施他們會立刻執行優化的措施對 他們也理解了他們不是一切都認為符合規範那還有什麼優化的措施好執行來請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12306.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12331.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
跟委員報告剛講的安全規範部分我們確實是符合安全規範那剛講的這個運安會要求我們做的經營措施我們會去做所以你們的意思是說本來就符合規範但是現在運安會既然這樣講我們把它做得更好是不是這樣可以這麼說非常會當官 真的 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12332.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12357.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
官場之道 深岸官場之道前面沒問題啦全部都符合規範這樣才不會有人被救責嘛但運安會既然已經這樣講了好嘛我們已經符合安全規範了但既然運安會這樣講了我就把它優化我現在我老實講我關心的是用路人的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12359.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12382.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
你們在說詞上面要怎麼樣文過是非要怎麼樣美化不是我關心的重點所有的用路人所有的公民心裡面會有一把尺你們的責任相關要不要被追究那個是後續的問題我會反映在我今年的預算提案上面但我現在只關心一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12384.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12391.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
一樣從用路人安全的角度你們所謂的優化要多久可以完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12393.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12420.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
我們跟委員報告我們目前大概分三個階段短期 中期 長期 短期我們大概10月底會先找專家學者來進行看怎麼樣讓這個整個的社群10月才要找專家學者再來看對 就這個月那奇怪了我6月提出質詢的時候你們是覺得反正黃國昌也不懂交通更不懂安全所以我跟你們講的時候你也覺得沒必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12421.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12447.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
然後現在呢陸陸續續發生事故10月才要找學者專家來研議喔你會不會覺得太晚了你會不會覺得太晚了運安會告訴你要優化終於聽進去了但是還是堅持我們本來已經符合規範現在只是優化所以要找專家學者來那找完專家學者開完會以後下一個階段呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12450.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12472.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
要做什麼事 什麼時候要完成我希望啦你們討論你們研議啊繼續討論繼續研議啊我真的希望在你們完成以前不要再有任何事故不要再有任何傷亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12476.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12501.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
我不曉得你們能不能夠了解用路人的心情我也不曉得你們能不能夠理解那些傷亡家屬的心情但對你們來講堅持我本來就OK了現在只是要研議如何優化知道要怎麼當官最重要知道要怎麼樣沒有責任最重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12504.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12508.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
但是你們還要多久還需要多久的時間可以具體的說嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12510.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12537.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
跟委員報告有關那個設計規範的部分這邊說明一下那規範的建議它有所謂的最小值跟建議值那按照我們目前這個路段它的設計數率是60KPH60公里每小時那它的最小半徑是120那現況的部分呢現況的部分它最小半徑是600所以它基本上是符合規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12538.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12557.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
符合規範就不用改啦對 那針對運安會的建議運安會的報告亂講運安會的建議他希望我們能夠提升一些容錯的空間那這部分我們希望在11月份邀集專家學者來提供一些建議那另外針對所謂的自駕車的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12557.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12574.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
因為自駕車根據我們拜會運安會得到的一個結果是自駕車在這個地方它的自駕系統會自動失效那這部分我們也會邀請車安中心跟相關的自駕車的業者沒有關係啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12576.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12591.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
你就直接跟我講你的誘惑還要多久我們10月就要開會來討論我知道你10月要開會但是你會開完現況不會有任何改變我跟你保證我們希望說有一些精進的方案能夠在11月來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12592.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12617.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
11月執行什麼時候執行完畢就11月11月執行完畢好沒關係你們到時候提的優化的方案是什麼執行完畢的結果是什麼一做完馬上通知我給我資料等你們做完了以後我會去現看看你們到底做了哪些東西最後一個問題請教主委因為主席站起來了你們最終的調查報告什麼時候出爐 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12622.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12645.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
沒有關係 最終的調查報告什麼時候出爐快一點好不好 主委加快速度好不好不是啦 這個是有關於用路人的安全嘛你們自己都說啦事故不斷的數字在增加當中啊所以你們才會發安全通告 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12647.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12668.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
但我現在看交通部其實對於運安會好像頗不以為然你們說他們有問題他們堅持符合規範當初設置運安會的宗旨要達到的目的絕對不是這個樣子交通部既然這樣子堅持國會的審議會有國會審議的態度 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12675 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12703.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
但我希望運安會從用路人從行車人的角度去思考這個問題最終報告早點出來好不好因為這個案子比較整個大陸現行設計比較複雜所以還在不會啊你沒看旁邊的交通部高空局的人表現出來的態度這個很簡單的事啊我們現在都符合規範啊一點都不複雜都是開車的人不小心啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12704.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12730.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
自己弄 自己附近主委拜託速度快一點好不好 我們盡量好 謝謝好 謝謝黃國昌委員我想我也在這邊再次提醒不管是交通部或是運安會 運安會你自己的調查報告在網路上寫的在這個路段上面是顯示本路段可能存在行車安全風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12732.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12761.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
你寫的是法規建議值與原設計規範不一致其實本席今天也有準備這個議題要質詢那是因為質詢的問題比較多可是既然有委員提出來我想面對問題解決問題我常常講交通沒有最好只有更好該檢討該改進趕快改進不要真的等到下一次憾事再發生這是交通委員會在這邊過去到現在都一直希望能夠促成的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12763.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12791.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
來我們接下來再請秋洛華委員進行好謝謝主席主席有請運安會林信德主委好委員好主委好主委先請教您一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12794.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12814.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
車輛本身 車輛本身的安全是不是也是交通安全的一道防線本身是安全的一道防線沒有錯沒有錯嗎那根據車輛安全審驗中心之前公布的台灣新車安全平等TNCP最新的結果竟然有一輛車獲得史無前例的零顆星評級 主委您知道是哪一台嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12818.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12836.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
不知道沒關係我們先我們來看簡報就是圖片上這台Town S那這一台豐田的Town S在測試在撞擊的測試結果他沒有獲得任何一顆星那這一款那這一款車在TNCV的平等制度下得到零顆星的車款那本席也特別注意到 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12837.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12864.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
會在今年五月份的時候有公布彰化縣竹塘鄉公所用的專用車的事故報告裡面有指出國內百分之九十九點九的幼童專用車都是有結構類似這款豐田Town S的車款的其中的他另外一個牌子中華山林的德力卡改裝的他是通用也是商用的改裝車輛那該款德力卡他的底牌設計老舊而且他的主被動安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12864.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12890.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
配備都不足那多數也都沒有側撞都沒有都沒有側撞的氣囊也沒有車身的穩定系統那主委既然TNCP都已經揭露部分商用車的安全他的等級都是偏低的那是不是應該由運安會來主動的將改裝的基底用車納入評測的這個我們今天要去收集資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12892.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12921.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
不好意思你說什麼我們應該應該要去注意這個事情沒有錯那是不是因為應該由雲安會主動來將這些像是德力卡這款車目前我們可以看到因為教育部也有統計全台現行有3000輛的幼童專用車人在營運平均的車齡也超過10年如果這些車輛安全性不足的話一旦發生事故後果不堪設想雲安會是不是應該要主動點積極一點呢主委我們應該要提出改善建議我們這個案子應該要更深入什麼時候可以提出 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12925.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12949.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
特別針對這個幼童專用車還有這類的高風險用途車輛跟委員報告那我們在這個竹昌鄉公所112年這個案子那調查完之後我們有已經有給這個交通部改善建議了那建議交通部可以參考這個國際的做法延提提升我國幼童專用車的一個安全性 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12950.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12965.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
那目前這個報告公佈以後那依據這個我們的調查法那在請已經在請交通部在提這個針對我們感恩經濟提這個具體的計畫那交通部也提了一個具體提出一個計畫只是說我們認為說他的內容不夠具體是交通部什麼時候提出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12966.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
12994.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
交通部的話他是在8月底的時候提出來我們在5月底的時候發布調查報告那依法他們90天要提出所以他們在8月底提出那在9月中的時候我們認為他的內容不夠具體所以請他針對說他們要針對這個幼龍專用車車輛安全檢測基準強化的部分我們希望他針對強化的具體目標能夠在計畫內容再描述的更清楚一點所以目前在等這個交通部再重提計畫給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
12994.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13007.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
所以院會這邊已經有建議交通部將像是這樣的車款像這樣子的車款要主動的來做分級嗎有沒有來去就是說要主動的來去做分級我們是針對整說是我們我們不是針對一個車子而是針對說幼童專用車 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13012.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13025.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
如果任何要成為幼童專用車的車輛他的安全檢測的這個基準怎麼樣去提升這個部分提感恩建議給交通部這是我們在這個竹塘的這個117年的報告裡面所提出來的感恩建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13026.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13041.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
OK 好 謝謝 那主委再來針對 院會晉級也公佈了自己陽梅服務區閘道事故的調查報告中也就是剛才黃國昌委員提到的那揭露嚴重的設計還有施工落差問題 那調查也指出該閘道設計的圖標它的標示半徑1000公尺 但實際你們測得的只有350到850公尺 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13046.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13072.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
還有分隔島的B端距離只有33公尺 遠低於交通部最小安全距離90公尺 請教主委這樣的誤差是工程的容忍值嗎這個誤差就是我剛剛報告的我們的我們的空拍機 無人機的空拍的這個精密度比較高啦所以所以你們只有用空拍機再去做現場做測量嗎 對 我們有去現場去做量測 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13073.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13081.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
那這是工程的容忍值嗎還是是你們整是這個工程整體的建造還有驗收機制有嚴重的瑕疵就要 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13087.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13108.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
跟委員來報告那就是說我們的調查就是把現況去指出來那因為那個驗收跟竣工的部分是由主辦單位主委你知道3年內剛剛如果你有認真聽的話3年內發生了幾起的事故14起那造成了幾死幾傷你知道嗎好像是5死5死 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13112.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13134.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
是造成的事實事實上那發生在今年的1月25號那您剛才也有說到陸續又發生陸續是什麼時候前天晚上又發生一件前天晚上是昨天昨天又發生了陽梅的這個休息站它又撞了所以不是所以從1月到昨天運安會調查之後告訴也請次長 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13136.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13146.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
就是雲南匯開始調查之後又發生了三件又發生了三件那這邊我們交通部有沒有做你們剛有提到優化嗎到底是什麼樣的優化中間有做什麼樣的處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13148.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13169.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
我想跟委員報告我們現在大概剛講的針對應安會他有一些建議我們針對這些建議我們分三個階段來進行優化從大概從十月底我們來進行第一個短期的昨天又撞了所以十月底才要進行優化嗎對因為這個因為這是之前我們已經排了啦也沒辦法看也沒辦法再提前 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13176.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13198.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那根據公警局的筆錄的資料就他們提供的資料那駕駛是有是有開啟自駕是有開啟自駕那從我們看到的影片他的行為是開啟自駕然後因為每一次都是因為開啟自駕發生事故嗎應該不是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13202.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13219.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
不是因為從111年1月30號然後到沒有算昨天到114年5月30號我們先看到10月10號四死不好意思 四傷一死然後他的第一個撞擊點是分隔倒鼻端我們從這個分隔倒鼻端來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13221.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13245.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
是111年10月10號還有10月27號也是因為分隔倒鼻端那還有112年8月25號也是因為分隔倒鼻端還有112年11月25號也都是從114年今年到今年1月25號44傷這一起然後到5月30號都是分隔倒鼻端的問題所以不是因為設計不良的關係嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13248 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13255.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
跟委員報告設計的部分它有一定的設計標準那這個部分因為它的設計速率是60 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13256.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13278.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
那主線那邊設計速率是100有開過這條路的人或是就是到陽梅休息站的駕駛者他們都說有問題只有交通部說沒有問題那很多車輛也因為他的轉彎過急然後失控如果今天不是因為運安會揭露的話社會根本沒有辦法無從得知啊其實這個設計跟竣工圖他是不服然後還驗收 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13280.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13296.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
那我們也看到三個問題第一個問題設計變更沒有公開透明的機制第二個驗收也沒進行現場的地線比對第三個沒有第三方的審查跟安全驗證所以次長什麼時候可以進行改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13301.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13311.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
我們大概另外會再找社安中心其他的我們來做一些看有什麼樣的工程可以來做 改善工程我們預計大概11月可以來完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13313.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13333.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
請教主委一個問題那這段期間呢你們有沒有就是要叫中部就是臨時有沒有臨時的警示措施就如同剛剛講的我們要他檢視行車動線叫他檢視這個集合道路要跟他馬上所謂安全通告就是你要立即做這個叫做安全通告要不然要等到我們最終報告出來太反不及急 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13336.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13355.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
因為明年才會完成這整個調查報告嗎那中間我們看到有那麼多起事故請交通部務必正視這個路段是我剛跟委員報告我剛提到我們大概11月底這邊就會啟動那大概11月底今年的11月底可以把那些精進的相關的工作幫他做好OK好謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13364.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13375.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
接下來是王美惠 王美惠 王美惠委員之選 王美惠不在黃婕 黃婕 黃婕委員不在楊瓊英 楊瓊英 楊瓊英委員不在請邱志維委員之選 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13393.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13419.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
謝謝主席 有請這個國家運輸安全調查委員會 林主委林主委請委員長那個運輸啊那最常會最有可能發生事故是哪一種運輸的工具這一好小 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13420.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13447.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我說我們是運輸安全調查委員會對不對我說我們現在你國家運輸安全調查委員會是針對公共運輸的安全嗎是那你覺得這些公共運輸這個比較容易發生事故的是哪些運輸工具一般是車輛啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13448.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13475.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
一般是車輛比較多 車輛 鐵道 航空嘛對不對 對 你在講公路的話是車輛 你針對這些運輸的事故調查有沒有一個SOP當然有 當然有 航空的部分這個是航空的安全 航空的安全這個很專業 那你們這個委員會裡面有沒有包括航空專家 我看是何副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13476.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13488.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
何副主委何副主委是航空專家通常一個航空的事故調查想請問一下何副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13498.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13525.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
不是 您是航空專家通常這個航空的這個事故調查他通常要花多久時間這要看事情他的這個嚴重程度那事故的樣態是哪些樣態比較多事故的樣態來說的話你從人為機械天候環境那人為的比例跟機械比例是佔比多少人為的部分差不多75%大部分是人為的那跟國外比較起來呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13526.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13540.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
也差不多這就是全世界統計所以人為跟大概是3比1嘛對不對所以如果人為能夠降低那當然這個非安事故就會減少嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13541.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13558.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
怎麼樣有精進作為針對這個人為的疏失的部分以人為的疏失來說的話也就是說在國際民航組織它有要求我們全世界的飛行員要做到八項它的核心要素第一個是它飛行操控自動駕駛還有它手控的操作另外就是情境的認知 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13559.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13585.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
溝通 然後這個SOP的這個應用然後就是Problem Solving跟Digital Making然後這個Teamwork and Leadership另外就是Workload Management那就是說怎麼樣能夠讓這個飛行員的這個專業的這個技術跟人為的這個技術能夠不斷的精進那台灣沒有加入iCare會不會有很大的影響那就是說在資訊取得的速度上它會受影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13587.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13614.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
當然希望說所有的這個運輸都零事故零事故是不可能但是能夠盡可能減少事故特別是這個不管是任何這個運輸工具的事故都是有時候非常大的一個災害不管是生命財產特別航空的部分你說有75是人為的疏失人為的過失所以這部分這個非安會國家運輸安全調查委員會有這個責任把這個人為的比例把它降低 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13615.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13641.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
是的那機器的部分機器的部分要怎麼處理呢這是有方法的也就是說你從第一個他的這個所謂的行為的這個塑造他的怎麼樣從SOP的遵守到他把這個工作完成那這是最基本的一個專業人士專業的這個從業人員他說需要努力的那就是說專業精神也就是你在沒有人 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13643.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13653.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
監督你的時候你可以遵守所有的法規遵守所有的SOB能夠把這個工作完成好謝謝何副主委謝謝林主委那還有一點時間請教一下交通部這個伍次長委員好次長您好這個所謂在北車台北車站發生這個這個所謂這個有應該國際旅客 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13673.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13696.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
被性侵害這個問題到底是我們台鐵公司因為北車是台鐵公司在營運管理對不對是那安全的部分是鐵路警察對 鐵路警察你覺得會發生這種離譜的事情是誰要負責的是鐵路警察還是交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13697.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13713.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
台庭跟委員報告我想這些事情我們大家共同來努力這個不應該發生這種事情這非常離譜對這個發生這事情真的是不可思議真的是讓人非常痛心而且是公開的場域對 是 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13714.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13737.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
這個事情發生之後我們大概就協調這個鐵路警察局他本來是大概一個小時巡邏兩次我們增加為一個小時三次那另外我們的車站的部分的我們的員工包括保全的部分我們跟鐵路警察局也建立所謂的聯防的一個機制就是半個小時我們就巡一次交叉巡視那針對比較幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13739.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13763.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
那個熱點安全熱點的部分像廁所比較角落的部分我們要加強來管理我覺得這個是不應該發生而且以後也絕對不能再發生所以一定要提出精進的作為來避免那是再多再發生這個這個對國家的生育做造成很大的影響哇現在國門會會有這種離譜的事情發生好謝謝好謝謝瑋瑜好謝謝好 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13768.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13787.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
再來請林月琴委員諮詢主席麻煩那個高鐵董事長來是董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13797.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13820.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
市委員好 董事長好我想這幾天高鐵寧靜車廂的爭議相信你應該都掌握了其實過去高鐵的服務品質一直以來都備受肯定只是在親子友善部分過去琢磨的真的比較少可是在這次爭議之前的話其實很多就有在做討論而寧靜車廂政策雖然上路以來實際上的確 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13823.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13851.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
結果我覺得對於首位檢舉兒童的案件少之又少可是對於很多育兒家庭來講真的事實上是倍感壓力因為我自己的臉書後臺就非常多的家長來做反應你的那四個字寫上去之後真的就是對家庭帶著孩子那如果孩子哭鬧的話好像責任在家長的身上所以想問一下高鐵這邊後續到底對年輕人相當爭議就是高鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13852.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13879.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
是不是有打算針對育兒家庭規劃比較友善的配套措施是謝謝委員我想寧靜車廂從一開始我們其實就已經續名的說他其實是不包括兒童以及沒有自主能力的人我們都是盡量提醒提用安撫的方法來幫忙這是第一個那第二個當然就是說我們寧靜車廂的兩個重點一個是3C戴耳機跟這個講手機到玄關這兩個重點我們會持續進行因為我覺得這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13882.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13906.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
一方面社會大眾的支持度很高第二個其實也是台灣文明表徵一個禮貌的一個新的里程碑了那同時我們也知道說這個親子友善跟逆境車廂是可以共存的那親子友善他不只是我們執行高鐵這個我們服務人員的執行的方法其實也有賴全國國人同胞以及車廂上的旅客大家共同要有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13907.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13921.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
認知體諒是不是要宣導包容文化然後也強調你們高鐵對這件事情的重視而非一直在強調寧靜設相的時候的確家長他還是有壓力而且你們的客服人員也好 債務人員也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13922.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
13940.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
有時候不一致呢真的造成家長的困擾也希望你在這部分能夠要多所注意是說有可能會前後不一致有的就會一直在提醒家長孩子都還沒哭你已經在提醒家長當然家長會倍感壓力所以我覺得這部分你的戰務人員跟你的客服人員應該要加強這樣的一個訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
13941.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
13969.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
跟委員報告我想我們已經承諾說我們在宣導這個寧靜或者是這個山西等等管制的同時我們也會加強跟旅客宣導說孩子的包容是大家共同的責任這個我們也會善盡這個社會責任來宣導親子的至於說我們車務同仁 站務同仁等等我想我們會優化精進不過過去開通18年來我們對於這個親子的處理方式到近期實施的過程當中我們其實處理的方法都沒有改變我們會盡量來精進優化 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
13971.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
13999.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
好謝謝董事長那麻煩請回那麻煩次長好謝謝主席好那這樣優榮專車我相信你也應該有持續掌握吧交通部因為今天是否好相關的一個議題我想來再瞭解一下目前進度因為去年六月六號我就諮詢過這個題目當時我指出約有兩千輛餘輛的那個舊型的車款正在各個原所當中使用 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14000.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14022.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
而這些車輛甚至都沒有安全機能碰撞的試驗甚至沒有任何主動的一個主被動的安全系統那我想問一下到底現在的狀況會是什麼結果我們大概一年都過去了上週請那個VSCC幫我更新安全管理的那個統計數據確實違規的現況現在有改善可是我認為幼童專用車 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14026.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14052.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
牽扯到的是高脆弱的族群就是我們的幼兒的人身安全所以不能有太多的閃失需要採比較高的標準我相信市長應該也認同所以我就要來問市長說現在交通部的推動進度如何因為我上一次收到的書面資料是跟我說會持續延續我去年六月六號質詢那你說九月底我們收到這個資料會持續延續現在已經過了一年多了我不知道到底狀況是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14054.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14081.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
我想跟委員報告 剛講針對這個2.0的部分包括對車案的這個檢驗的部分我想因為車輛幼兒車的部分他大概我們去檢視看大概跟這個車案的市長我比較想要知道的是進度因為你從去年我提出來這些東西那你說去年九月份就回答我說你媽做那現在做到什麼狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14082.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14107.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
為什麼我這麼緊急因為我覺得時間關係我們來看下一個就是運安會也提出了一個 今年五月就發布了一個調查報告其實這可以是你們的底氣要做的底氣報告內容也明確建議交通部應該要參考國際最新的車輛安全法規跟實務做法來研議幼童專用車的安全性的提升目標並且擬定推動的策略跟相關配套 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14108.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14134.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
這些包括右通專用車車椅的設計還有安全帶一直以來右通專用車是沒有安全帶可是我們看日韓已經開始加裝這些東西了還有其他的主動被動的安全輔助系統尤其我今年我去看到日韓真的事實上跟我們臺灣很多的事實上是比較先進人家只是發生了一個沒有死亡的案件他們都有所謂的緊急案例的一個求助系統臺灣在 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14136.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14161.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
發生了兩起 就到現在我們都還沒有這些系統來配套來保護我們的孩子接下來我就希望說是不是對於我們的兒少交通安全像交通部當然一個是協助我們的高鐵能夠去研議友善措施以外我希望幼童專用車的2.0政策相關計畫可以趕快出來來保障我們的孩子 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14161.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14179.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
因為今年少子化可能搞不好孩子都生不到十二萬的狀態裡面 每一個孩子都是保 每一個孩子都不能少的時候 用農專用車的這個不要再延後了 因為去年就提出來 那你一直研議 那我希望能夠盡快啦好 我們接著來推動 謝謝好 謝謝好 接下來再請張雅玲委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14199.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14204.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請部長跟高鐵董事長吳次長以及董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14211.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14236.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
好首先我要先感謝董事長在上次我們在講高鐵送年票的時候呢願意在暫假的時間呢也來示範這樣子然後也願意來定期追蹤那我想過去高鐵在於在疫情期間呢對於兩歲的孩子也是可以有這個口罩彈性的政策所以我相信那這個高鐵一定是可以做到親子友善的部分因為也都是非常的細膩跟貼心那我今天也看到了高鐵有六項聲明 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14237.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14257.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
那但是我想要再回到更前面一點來討論就是說當年我們在當初我們在推動這個政策的時候我們有沒有找相關的親子團體來討論這個可能的一個影響性因為呢為什麼這麼說是因為長期以來我覺得家長都背負了一個非常大的壓力特別是在搭乘大眾運輸工具的時候因為他們過去可能搭飛機 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14259.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14276.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
我說大家一些運輸工具的時候會被拍 如果小朋友哭鬧會被拍或是被上網公審等等的所以為什麼這個才是寧靜車廂上路之後會引發這麼大的一個爭議所以我想特別請教就是說在這個之前我們有沒有找相關的親子團體啦 兒少團體啦或是來帶兒少代表等等來做一個諮詢跟討論這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14280.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14305.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
謝謝我想高鐵公司在開通18年了相關的處理的經驗也算是豐富了所以其實我們的經理部門相關的人員其實對這方面其實都有他長期經驗的累積也不是沒有至於說委員說有沒有特定法制化的找親子團體來溝通確實沒有了解好那我接下來我想要我也希望提個建議就是說我看到高鐵的一個改善措施是想要再提供一些可能開發一些素材 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14306.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14329.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
那可以來跟親子更加的友善那我也是建議說如果我們在這個素材的開發如果我們真的走向那個方向的話是不是也可以找相關的團體來做一些討論來確保我們推出的這個素材可能會是家長也很喜歡的因為我自己會覺得對家長來說最重要的可能也不是那個素材也不是那個東西而是說整個環境上面有沒有對兒童相對的友善 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14330.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14350.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
我想我們其實這幾天都已經在找相關網路上比較有意見的這個朋友也有諮詢他們的意見這個我們倒是很願意大家如果能夠提供更好的想法我們都願意接受好喔 謝謝那再來就是說我也想要再請教就是說我們在這個這部分我想請教衛福部 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14356.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14378.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
抱歉 抱歉次長在等我今天是政務次長 交通部政務次長在等我一下好那個次長 次長你好就是說因為其實現在衛福部也有提到就是說現在這個寧靜車廂之前的爭議就是是不是會再跟那個交通部來討論是不是有違反兒少權法的這個疑慮 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14379.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14405.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
那我也想請你們是不是可以針對這個旅運契約旅運條約裡面的有第十款有一個文字就是說旅客有喧嘩以電子產品進行交談或視訊播放通訊提示音我都一直忘記撥頭影片好算了沒關係好上一頁播放通訊提示音或影音媒體等明顯妨礙他人安寧之行為經勸導為改善者高鐵可採取處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14406.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14428.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
那我想因為你們長期跟兒少跟親子有一些互動那因為也有兒少跟家庭來跟我反映說這樣子的聲音會讓他們不太去這樣子的一個文字上面會有點擔心說會不會講講到嬰幼兒的部分所以這個到時候是不是也可以提供一些相關的建議這個我們會再跟如果要跟交通部討論的時候會把這個委員的意見我們一起跟他們討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14429.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14438.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
好喔謝謝你謝謝你謝謝那最後喔董事董事長跟維福部次長都可以請回我要請教交通部了董事長可以請回去謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14442.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14469.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
那次長我想請教一下因為其實我之前就已經有提醒過交通部應該要設置兒少諮詢委員會那這個在2022年的國際結論心意建書的國際審查裡面兒童兒少代表也提及了五個部會他們非常認為需要設置這樣子的一個單位那其中一個就是交通部為什麼呢因為他們覺得他們每天的生活都會跟交通息息相關那現在交通部給我的一個回應就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14470.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14491.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
我們針對於一些跟他們有相關的議題或是政策我們會找他們來可是這還是會回到就是說我大人判定這件事情跟他有相關所以可能以高鐵泥鏡車廂這個案例來說可能就會變成是說可能我們交通部在判定的時候會覺得這個好像跟兒少團體沒有關係就不會找他們來 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14492.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14515.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
那我自己的想法是說我們是不是可以來設置相關的委員會呢因為從兒少的角度來看的時候也許可以提供給我們一個更全面的思考呢這部分是不是鮑委員因為這個部分我比較沒有touch是不是容我回去再跟同仁再做一下討論好嗎好那我想就是說我還是要再來強調就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14518.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14537.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
這個部分因為相關的國際兒權公約裡面有一些相關的精神就是要以兒童最佳利益 表達意見權利 表達自由等等的所以我希望就是次長把這個意見帶回去然後進一步的我們辦公室跟交通部來約個時間來討論到底實務上我們可以怎麼樣的來執行這件事情好不好好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14543.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14565.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
在陳雪生 陳雪生 陳雪生委員不在請陳冠廷委員咨詢是的好 施董事長請 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14573.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14582.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
總商好 剛才其實前面委員有問到相關的問題就是高鐵公司推動的寧靜車廂的政策跟他的影響那 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14584.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14612.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
九月開始推動寧靜車廂之後那他倡導是3C用手機 玄關講手機然後交談是降低音量那有部分的旅客支持但是也有社會上也有不同的聲音那高鐵推動寧靜車廂的政策依據我看報告上面說是有九成旅客支持該政策可是這個數據來源是什麼 是怎麼樣做的數據來源我們是委託專業的民調公司 山水民調公司所進行的專業的民調 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14613.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14639.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
所以這個數據來源是來自專業的民調那針對使用者那使用者裡面那支持用寧靜車廂作為政策他的設計的問題大概是以什麼樣為主他設計的問題就是講得很清楚是不是同意支持這個寧靜車廂以及限制手機跟這個3C傳頻帶耳機那事實上透過交叉分析不管是全體的大眾或者是把 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14640.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14661.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
有搭乘高鐵的人獨立出來事實上他的知識比例都相當的高那在這個知識的比例裡面那我們最近看到的是說有一部分的人這跟有沒有用這個3C產品或者是玄關講手續比較無關是有些受到影響的反而是一些孩童嬰幼兒還有這些疾病的這些旅客 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14661.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
14679.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
那但是高鐵公司有明確的說這些不是列入勸導對象對不對是那但是有沒有勸導過就是說儘管我們公司上面的政策上是不把他們列入勸導對象但是有沒有類似這樣的狀況就是嬰幼兒的聲音比較高那導致說高鐵人員必須要去進行勸導 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
14681.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
14705.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
跟委員這個要特別講清楚我們已經很講得很清楚說嬰幼兒跟沒有自主性的不是在這次臨近車廂的範圍也就是說我們並不會進行主動的介入或勸導但是高鐵車上有數位客服我想委員都知道我們現在透過這個手機APP其實你用文字向我們客服中心反映我們的客服中心會把這個訊息轉到列車長 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
14707.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
14730.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
那列車長針對所有的旅客所提出來的任何問題都有到場關心的義務所以說當有旅客在反應他都會到場不管他是不是嬰幼兒 對那現在我可能就比較關心的就變成反而是這一個現場的這個協助的人員包含這個車長因為他們同時要承受的是旅客跟這一個被勸導的旅客的壓力 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
14731.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
14757.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
那所以這些車安人員跟列車長要在什麼樣的狀況下執行什麼樣的任務 那他變成要有一定的標準要有一致性 不然到時候我們最擔心的是 既沒有辦法安撫到這些可能是有疾病的旅客 他們需要被協助的 那又沒有辦法安撫到這些提出這些溯源的旅客 到最後甚至包含列車長跟車安人員又要被拿出來公審那就是三輸 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
14759.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
14778.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
什麼樣的狀況要進行勸導 什麼樣的標準要有一致性 那必須要有一個相關的指南在 這樣子才可以確保三方的權益都不要受損 所以我想請這個董事長在內部來去討論一下那要怎麼樣有一個完整的指引才確保不會三輸 那這個部分董事長有什麼樣的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
14779.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
14799.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
是 謝謝委員我特別再利用這個地方說明我們事實上從九月二十二號上這個開始實施以來車上的所謂的車安或保全他只處理有關於山西沒有戴耳機以及講手機沒有去玄關他只處理這個部分他其實不做其他任何旅客事項的處理 這是第一第二 我剛剛也說明了 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
14799.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
14819.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
我們的車務同仁這個不會主動去介入有關於兒童小孩的這個部分第三車上有所謂的數位客服的系統數位客服他只要申訴不管他是哪一個類型我們列車長跟扶勤同仁一定會到現場關心但是這裡面到場關心的人不會有車安 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
14820.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
14837.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
只有列車長跟服刑同仁服刑同仁到現場他要表達的是關心因為總是要對客訴的同仁表示有所回應對於嬰幼兒我們也不會要求做任何的處置基本上我們不管是貼紙或等等基本上我們是希望做一個輔助的角色謝謝董事長 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
14838.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
14855.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
那因為這個政策是有長期的要有延續性的但是他從此也是需要被調整的所以我們需要長時間的去監控評估所以剛才我們提到的這一個你說禁酒車的旅客支持該政策就是有做民調嘛那未來的民調我是希望更多元一點就是救細部 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
14856.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
14884.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
來去做討論 這樣子才可以同時滿足各個旅客他們的要求我本來還想要針對這個高鐵的這個安全上面再提醒就是遇到這個可疑行為的通報 相關的安全運輸的事項因為過去我記得在十幾年前有相關的有把爆裂物放在高鐵的那一個律師那最近有聽到一些跟安全質疑相關的建議那下一次我再質詢好了 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
14888.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
14908.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
好 謝謝接下來請林儲殷委員 林儲殷委員 林儲殷委員不在徐貞委員 徐貞委員 徐貞委員不在蔡益渝委員 蔡益渝委員 蔡益渝委員不在葉元之委員 葉元之委員 葉元之委員不在李博義委員 李博義委員 李博義委員不在好 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
14910.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
14923.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
登記諮詢委員均已發言完畢那做一下決定一 報告及詢答完畢今天一整天聽完這個詢答都是寧靜車廂有一個感想是不是立法院為了要推動寧靜會議室來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
14926.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
14955.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
感覺寧靜還是大家一起追求共識不只是高鐵台鐵捷運公車其實我們都應該往這個文化方向來邁進第二委員林國成跟尤浩委員所提的書面質詢列入記錄並且刊登公報三委員於質詢中要求提供相關書面資料以及未及答覆部分請運安會交通部及相關單位盡速以書面答覆本日會議已進行完畢現在宣布散會謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
14961.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
14961.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
來 辛苦 謝謝 |