| IVOD_ID |
169505 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169505 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-20T16:57:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-20T17:13:18+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:16:01 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e8e93c7ebde79bae73050bee19cccd677568857f6f1e6f3bdab340d01403760c6d9aedde2b1829865ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
李坤城 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:57:17 - 17:13:18 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-20T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「本（第5）會期延長會期至115年7月31日止。」是否有當？請公決案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、總統彈劾案事項。（5月19日上午）四、「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案籌編相關事項」專案報告。（5月19日下午）五、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國防部部長及相關部會首長列席報告保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案編製經過並備質詢。【如經本院同意行政院籌編特別預算案則於5月20日(三)下午加開】六、5月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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顧部長立雄 |
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顧部長立雄 |
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顧部長立雄 |
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顧部長立雄 |
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顧部長立雄 |
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顧部長立雄 |
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顧部長立雄 |
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林沛祥委員請準備好 謝謝院長那我們請行政院左院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
30.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
31.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
國軍安全必須守護 國家安全不能打折那是我今天質詢的一個主軸 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
51.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
77.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
那行政院今天有通過這個軍購的特別預算2949億那其中呢今年先編了88億的這個預算那當然比較急的就是5月31號這個海馬仕火箭系統的第一期的這個訂金就要付了我印象中是8億元那當然來得及來不及我們要一起努力啦不過我想先請教一下這個院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
79.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
106.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
因為我們正式的軍購特別條例原本我們是1.25兆包含軍購、商購、委制這三部分所以我們是分八年來編列但是現在我們的軍購特別預算被打了六二折從1.25兆剩下7800億少了4700億然後被打折之後它分兩批一批就是3000億一批就是4800億那我的問題是在於說 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
109.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
126.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們今年只編了88億元那我請問一下這編列的原則是怎麼樣因為如果按照這個通過了這個全部7800億來講分8年編列大概一年也要編到975億左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
128.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
145.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
那如果第一年只編了88億考量是怎麼樣跟委員報告他這個就是因為執行的年度所產生的分年需求是不一樣不一定的所以今年88億明年預估就會到102億那麼到了117年就會到213億那麼到了118會到521億左右那接下來119會到600多億應該對 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
158.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
172.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
然後900多億再500多億這個大概大家都有一個分年不同不是大家不能夠把它除以平均數啦你這個數字有沒有跟外界披露因為我只看到今年是88億 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
174.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
198.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
那你剛才所講的這個分年每一年的預算跟委員報告這88億是我們第一批發價數的部分部分的經費88億那往後還會再加上來因為跟委員報告他我們在我們的預算的書表裡面其實是有列一個總額那因為他現在特別條例說叫我們一年一編啦那所以一年一編我們就要按 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
198.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
223.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
因為今年已經現在已經是五月了所以我們現在要的就是說屬於首期款然後還有第三季第四季我覺得要講清楚啦對那明年就是一個整年嘛對不對那所以一定是付款的那個金額會比較高所以我剛剛大致上我們有一個我剛剛有念的這樣一連串的數字大概就是我們有一個估算那你這個估算的數字可不可以給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
224.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
242.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我想我們會後因為現在大家覺得說一年只能編88億可是我們這個通過預算是7800億嘛然後當然第一批是3000億然後按照這個部長所講的每一年每一年今年可能編88億但是第二年第三年之後會編的比較多嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
243.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
258.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
對不對我覺得這個數字要講清楚啦它這個付款的高峰期要隨著我們這幾個案項執行的期程就會有不同嘛就譬如說我們也有像海空戰力特別提升的特別條例也有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
259.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
278.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
我會有付款的高峰期啦那我的意思是說可能國防部要把這部分我們這個因為分8年嘛那現在通過了一個3000一個4800億加起來7800億那你要把每一年大概大概會要付這個我免聯兵的預算大概是多少我覺得要讓外界了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
281.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
289.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
給的當然就是指現在通過的這個2917億那就是第一批嘛那至少你第一批,那第一批也要分8年嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
291.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
316.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他每一個案項執行的期程並不完全一樣那我們在我們的預算的書裡面也有大致上說明大概每一個大概執行的一個期程有的是要到121年但是有的可能是不需要到121年可能有的只到118年那有的可能是120年都有不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
316.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
335.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
對 我的意思 我看有的是120 有的是121嘛118也有那因為我們本來是有分三部分啊那現在只剩下對美的軍購部分而已嘛 對不對對 我們現在就是商購跟委制商購跟委制就沒有了嘛 對不對那所以這個整個條例還是要分八年嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
337.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
354.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為軍購的部分他給我們的那個執行的期程其實就是差不多在121年左右所以還是就算最後只剩下這個7800億商購的 委制的都沒有了我們還是大概要分8年來做執行就對了 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
356.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
382.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
那你把每年你預計執行的這個數目我覺得要讓外界來了解一下不然我會有個疑惑我就說那為什麼這個第一年只有分88億委員一定會覺得第一年比較少但因為我們去年就送出來延誤了這半年跟美方要進行多項的交涉我舉個例子我們4年1000億的縣市管核酸改善計畫4年1000億我們第一年也編了100多億而已也沒有是4年1000億就編250億也不可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
383.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
412.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那還是我們國內的部分喔 軍購還有跟國外洽商 很多很多的程序所以往後年度就會緩緩的上升要讓外界來瞭解 就是說我們大概是我又請國防部特別說明早上院會我又請國防部特別就這一段必要的時候跟社會要多做我覺得要做個說明啦因為大家外界不一定清楚說那不是我們需要的是1.25兆那後來就算砍成只剩7800億那我們的每年度的預算大概是怎麼樣做分配的 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
412.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
432.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
我覺得還是要讓外界來瞭解一下我想我們可以來就我們預估的這個相關的這個金額因為他還是要我們一年一編是沒錯啦是一年一編沒有錯但是我們這是多年期的所以我們已經有一個預估的我覺得要把預估的每一年的數字還是要讓外界瞭解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
433.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
447.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那第二個當然這個總統跟院長也說過蠻多次接下來的這一個被刪掉4700億我們希望說用這個特別預算或是用追加預算或是變在這個年度的預算裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
448.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
473.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那不過我看一下這個4700億被刪掉的部分包含無人載具還有反制系統這包含商購跟偽製大概2900億然後強攻飛彈系統約370億那這個是偽製 這是由中科院來做處理的然後AI輔助還有聯合勤監偵系統大概90億左右然後還有強化持續量能約500億那這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
475.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
500.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
要在中共可能發動海空封鎖之前我們要建立這個自己自主的一個後勤的一個韌性不過這個500億也被刪掉了然後還有台美共同研發還有新興科技合作640億那這個就是跟台美合作這個關鍵的一個新興科技還有這個我們共同來研發新興科技的擊殺鏈等等那加起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
502.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
522.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
有偽製的部分那有商購的部分那商購又有國內的又有國外的那我請教一下院長跟部長如果你要編特別預算或是編追加預算或是年度預算那你這些項目你大概要怎麼去做處理呢這個請國防部再研究我說我們這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
524.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
547.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
商跟軍之間如果未來他必須要有一個合理的界面現在考慮的是這些合理的界面不會因為不同的部會來主政讓他將來在整個指揮系統上運用系統上發生變化但是無論是哪一個部門比如說無人機那他可能可以我現在還沒有做最後決定他可能朝一個特別的條例來做經營也可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
548.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
572.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那其他的部分我們用放到裡面的該放到一起特別條例的放到特別條例或其他部分可以用追加的或用公務預算的方式可以分開來處理像委制的部分至少公開的資料是有蠻多是委託中科院的嘛是不是中科院最大的就是我們現在所需要台灣之盾的那個強工然後還有無人機 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
573.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
602.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
無人機的部分基本上在這次擺在特別預算裡面是運用這個公開採購的方式公開採購的方式來向國內來建立一個長單就是說我們一個多年期然後來建構一個自主的供應鏈這樣子的部分擺在這一次特別條例因為不是把所有的無人載具都放在這個我知道那我的意思是說因為它有一些是偽製的部分那商購比如說有一些是國內的廠商嘛對不對那有一些是國外的嘛對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
603.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
621.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
無人機的部分我不是指無人機的部分而已對對當然當然有很多有一些部分都未踩上過的方式那就涉及到說那你到底要編載特別條例比較好還是說編載年度預算會比較好 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
622.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
647.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
跟委員報告我想院長剛剛也只是我們那我們現在就是說因為剛剛被您剛剛不是列了一大串被刪減的項目那這些刪減的項目的性質我們看能不能放入到年度預算有一些部分可以那有一些部分我們可能是不是用追加預算那有一些部分的話用特別條例所以我們國防部的首要責任就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
648.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
660.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
盡快的檢討這些被刪除的項目如何在後續的年度來進行編列大概哪時候會做個決定因為總是有一些原則性會先出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
663.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
689.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我想在行政院的指導之下我們會我們現在最快的希望是明天開始這個特別預算就能夠審那特別預算開始審的時候我們是下週啊如果現在我們也馬上講一個時間點上出來的話我還期待我們的總預算我們的總預算也要趕快審因為我們要辦這個後續的這一家也是要總預算過的話我們也希望能夠看到我們的總預算在我們國航的部分是變成什麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
690.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
705.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
好那我講到總運算那現在其實外界很多人誤解就是說國防部的運算有9495億這其實是不是正確的資訊因為你們自己的國防部的運算才5614億然後我們講的是9495億是指國防運算 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
712.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
723.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我們已經當時要講說要破3%而且我們現在GDP一直成長得很厲害我們的重點是這樣子我們的當時的949已經將我們這個特別條例 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
729.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
751.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
包括這一次的特別條例我們還有海空戰力特別提示還有我們這些特別條例的預算我們都已經把它預估放在這個裡面對 因為你們你們這個齁這個剛剛王安祥委員有幫我們試算了一下大概九四九五已經檔好來來來我是按照你們這一個主計總署的還有你們這國防部也有這個主計的齁他講出來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
752.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
765.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
編列這個特別預算吼這個有包含了新式戰機的採購還有海空戰力提升計畫那除了這個之外呢還有另外編列的特別預算有1176億那這1176億呢76億是屬於海巡署的國防安全防衛任性預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
771.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
785.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
那另外的1100億分為兩岸那都是國防部有關係的那另外呢有一半呢就跟剛剛一樣是國土安全防衛稅清算這我們已經過了嘛另外一個就是本來要通過了啦這個防衛的軍購特別預算嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
786.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
813.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
所以光特別預算就有四個F16海空戰力還有一個經濟部的那個安全韌性然後再加上我們現在打算要通過的特別條例然後因為我們按照那一頭就是北約的計算標準所以我們加計海巡跟加計對對對我知道這加起來的我知道啦那當然有些人不了解他以為這些都是屬於國防部的預算那國防部的預算就五千多億而已嘛所以剛剛有委員一直在說我們是九千多再加上去這個講法是不對的 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
815.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
822.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
好 那我的意思是說啦 本來你們預計 本來預計的話應該是今年如果1.25兆都過的話 你們不是編了500億在這個這個軍購特別條例 本來是編了500億進去就對了所以現在因為今年是88億嘛 所以這個金額要往下扣啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
837.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
858.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那我想問就是說國防部今年的這個軍事投資預算1616億那其中只有84億是用在新增案那如果你要把無人機這個1500億的預算分6年把它編進去那一年要編200多億那會不會排擠其他的國防的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
860.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
882.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以所以這是我們現在要跟主席總書商量然後要接受基本上是沒有辦法全部或是很大的部分就放在年度預算來即使年度預算採連續性的連續幾年的預算但每年這樣分下來會讓我們相當其他的預算會發生一些影響還是可能會變成特別預算沒有錯好 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
885.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
906.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
最後再請教一下院長因為我們還有一個140億的軍購這個還在川普那邊要等川普的同意我是根據公開的報導這筆預算主要聚焦於強化台灣的防空攔截能力還有防空體系的升級 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
907.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
925.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
然後這個大概有包含這個愛國者三行或是說這個國家先進地對空飛彈系統這個是公開的資料那我不用部長來跟我回答是或是不是那我只是要問一下就是說現在有所謂的倚賴論跟以美論又出現了 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
928.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
944.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
如果現在140億第二批的軍購沒有夠的話是民進黨的責任但是我要講如果當初早點通過的話不就好了嗎所謂疑美論是美國應該跟我們很好但是他有沒有不知道但台灣卻沒有疑中論 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
960.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
961.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
好 謝謝李坤 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-05-20T16:57:43.523000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-05-20T16:57:44.464000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝院長。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-05-20T16:57:44.624000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-05-20T16:57:46.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
我們請行政院卓院長。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0.889 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-05-20T16:57:46.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-05-20T16:57:47.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
麻煩再請卓院長備詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-05-20T16:57:47.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-05-20T16:57:48.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
李委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-05-20T16:57:48.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-05-20T16:57:49.164000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
院長好，辛苦了。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-05-20T16:57:47.100000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-05-20T16:57:47.640000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
國軍安全必須守護，國家安全不容打折！ |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-05-20T16:57:47.840000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-05-20T16:57:48.140000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
這是我今天質詢的一個主軸！ |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-05-20T16:58:09.394000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-05-20T16:58:32.571000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
行政院今天通過了軍購特別預算2,949億，其中今年先編了88億的預算，當然比較急的就是5月31號海馬士火箭系統第一期訂金就要付了，我印象中是8億元，當然來得及、來不及，我們要一起努力！ |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-05-20T16:58:33.112000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-05-20T16:59:02.798000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
不過我想先請教一下院長，因為我們這次的軍購特別條例原本是1.25兆，包含軍購、商購、委製這三部分，所以我們是分8年編列，但是現在我們的軍購特別預算被打了六二折，從1.25兆剩下7,800億，少了4,700億，被打折之後，它分兩批，一批是3,000億，一批就是4,800億。 |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.93 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-05-20T16:59:02.818000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-05-20T16:59:13.983000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
我的問題是在於我們今年只編了88億元，我請問一下編列的原則是怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-05-20T16:59:15.744000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-05-20T16:59:29.270000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
如果按照通過的全部7,800億來講，分8年編列，大概一年也要編到975億左右，如果第一年只編了88億，考量是怎麼樣？ |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0.953 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-05-20T16:59:29.270000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:02.671000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
跟委員報告，它這個就是因為執行的年度所產生的分年需求是不一樣、不一定的，所以今年是88億，明年預估就會到102億，到了117年就會到213億，到了118年會到521億左右，接下來119年會到六百多億，然後九百多億，再來是五百多億，大概都因分年而有不同，大家不能把它除以…… |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0.854 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:02.671000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:03.671000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
部長，你剛才講的那些數字…… |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:03.092000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:03.532000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
是平均數。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:05.554000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:07.616000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
這些數字有沒有向外界披露？ |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:07.816000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:14.206000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
因為我只看到今年是88億，你剛才所講的是分年的預算。 |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
0.955 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:14.406000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:17.888000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
跟委員報告，88億是第一批發價書的部分。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:17.888000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:18.888000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
我知道，就是今年編的嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:18.668000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:22.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
88億是部分的經費，往後還會再加上來。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.867 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:22.951000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:44.725000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
跟委員報告，其實在預算書表有列一個總額，但特別條例要求我們一年一編，一年一編就要按……因為現在已經5月了，所以現在編的是屬於首期款以及第三季、第四季…… |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.879 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:45.085000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:45.886000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
我覺得要講清楚。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:47.147000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-05-20T17:00:58.654000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
對，明年是一整年度，所以付款的金額一定比較高，我剛才唸的一連串數字就是估算的金額。 |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.784 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-05-20T17:00:59.535000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-05-20T17:01:00.775000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
這些估算的數字可不可以給我們？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-05-20T17:01:01.916000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-05-20T17:01:02.777000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
我們會後再提供給委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-05-20T17:01:04.838000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-05-20T17:01:21.872000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
對啊，因為大家覺得一年只編88億，可是通過的預算是7,800億，當然第一批是3,000億，按照部長所講每一年、每一年編，今年可能編88億，但是第二年、第三年之後，會編得比較多嘛，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-05-20T17:01:21.872000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-05-20T17:01:22.872000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
對、對、對。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-05-20T17:01:21.872000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-05-20T17:01:23.174000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
我覺得這些數字要講清楚。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-05-20T17:01:23.815000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-05-20T17:01:35.171000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
付款的高峰期會隨著幾個案項執行的期程而有不同，譬如像海空戰力特別提升的特別條例也有一個不一樣的…… |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.87 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-05-20T17:01:36.572000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-05-20T17:01:55.740000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
我知道會有付款的高峰期，我的意思是，可能國防部要把分8年的部分……，現在通過了一個3,000億、一個4,800億，加起來7,800億，我覺得要把每年編的預算大概是多少讓外界了解一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.812 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-05-20T17:01:55.740000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-05-20T17:02:02.209000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
現在能夠提供的是已通過的二千九百多億的部分。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
0.286 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-05-20T17:02:02.209000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-05-20T17:02:06.956000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
對，就是第一批嘛，至少第一批……第一批也要分8年嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.95 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-05-20T17:02:08.925000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-05-20T17:02:33.081000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
因為每一個案項執行的期程並不完全一樣，在預算書裡面也有大致說明，每一個大概執行的期程，有的是到121年，有的可能不需要到121年，可能有的只到118年，有的可能是120年，都不盡相同。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.944 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-05-20T17:02:33.822000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-05-20T17:02:36.946000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
對，我有看到，有的是120年，有的是121年。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.692 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-05-20T17:02:38.527000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-05-20T17:02:38.648000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
118年也有。 |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
0.667 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-05-20T17:02:40.049000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-05-20T17:02:46.477000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
因為我們本來有分三部分，現在只剩下對美軍購部分而已，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-05-20T17:02:46.477000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-05-20T17:02:47.718000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
對，現在商購跟委製沒有了。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.636 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-05-20T17:02:48.259000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-05-20T17:02:50.101000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
商購跟委製就沒有了，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.917 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-05-20T17:02:50.261000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-05-20T17:02:52.784000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
所以這整個條例還是要分8年嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-05-20T17:02:54.855000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-05-20T17:03:02.098000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
因為軍購的部分，他給我們的執行期程其實就是差不多在121年左右。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-05-20T17:03:02.618000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-05-20T17:03:11.582000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
所以就算最後只剩下7,800億，商購和委製的都沒有了，還是要分8年執行就對了？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.875 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-05-20T17:03:13.603000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-05-20T17:03:23.430000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
好，我覺得每一年預計執行的數目要讓外界了解一下，不然會有個疑惑，為什麼第一年只有編88億？ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-05-20T17:03:23.430000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-05-20T17:03:30.295000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
委員一定會覺得第一年比較少，因為我們去年就送出來，已延誤了半年，我們跟美方要進行多項的交涉。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-05-20T17:03:30.595000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-05-20T17:03:39.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
我舉個例子，四年1,000億的縣（市）管河川改善計畫，四年1,000億在第一年也編了一百多億而已，並不是四年1,000億，每年就編250億，也不可能…… |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.712 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-05-20T17:03:39.322000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-05-20T17:03:40.963000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
不可能平均啦。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-05-20T17:03:40.963000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-05-20T17:03:48.289000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
那還是我們國內的部分，軍購還要跟國外洽商很多、很多的程序，所以往後年度就會緩緩地上升…… |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.949 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-05-20T17:03:48.810000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-05-20T17:03:53.393000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
沒關係，要讓外界了解大概是……我覺得要特別說明一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.591 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-05-20T17:03:53.453000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-05-20T17:03:56.496000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
早上院會我有請國防部特別就這一段必要的時候向社會說明。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-05-20T17:03:56.896000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-05-20T17:04:08.866000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
我覺得要做個說明啦，因為外界不一定清楚，我們需要的是1.25兆，就算後來砍成只剩7,800億，每年度的預算大概是怎麼樣做分配？ |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.941 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-05-20T17:04:09.406000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-05-20T17:04:10.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
我覺得還是要讓外界了解一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-05-20T17:04:10.686000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-05-20T17:04:19.129000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
我想可以就我們預估的相關金額說明，因為我們還是要一年一編嘛…… |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
0.821 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-05-20T17:04:19.129000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-05-20T17:04:19.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
是沒錯啦。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[51].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[51].start |
2026-05-20T17:04:20.250000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[51].end |
2026-05-20T17:04:26.072000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[51].text |
是一年一編沒有錯，但這是多年期的，所以我們已經有一個預估的金額，每年要花…… |
| transcript.gazette[51].quality |
0.818 |
| transcript.gazette[52].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[52].start |
2026-05-20T17:04:26.252000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[52].end |
2026-05-20T17:04:29.393000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[52].text |
我覺得每一年預估的數字還是要讓外界了解一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[52].quality |
0.857 |
| transcript.gazette[53].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[53].start |
2026-05-20T17:04:29.393000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[53].end |
2026-05-20T17:04:30.673000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[53].text |
是、是、是。 |
| transcript.gazette[53].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[54].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[54].start |
2026-05-20T17:04:30.673000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[54].end |
2026-05-20T17:04:44.662000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[54].text |
好，第二個，總統跟院長也說過蠻多次了，接下來被刪掉的4,700億，我們希望用特別預算或追加預算或是編在年度的預算裡面。 |
| transcript.gazette[54].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[55].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[55].start |
2026-05-20T17:04:45.662000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[55].end |
2026-05-20T17:05:36.951000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[55].text |
不過，我看了一下，4,700億被刪掉的部分包含這個無人載具還有反制系統，包含了商購跟委製，大概2,900億；強弓飛彈系統約370億，這是委製，是由中科院來做處理的；然後AI輔助還有聯合情監偵系統大概90億左右；另外還有強化持續量能約500億，這個是要在中共可能發動海空封鎖之前，我們要建立一個自給自足的後勤韌性，不過這500億也被刪掉了；還有臺美共同研發、新興科技合作640億，這就是臺美合作關鍵的新興科技還有我們共同來研發新興科技的擊殺鏈等等。 |
| transcript.gazette[55].quality |
0.919 |
| transcript.gazette[56].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[56].start |
2026-05-20T17:05:37.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[56].end |
2026-05-20T17:05:58.312000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[56].text |
加起來有委製的部分、有商購的部分，商購又有國內的也有國外的，那我請教一下院長跟部長，如果你要編特別預算、追加預算或年度預算，這些項目你大概要怎麼處理呢？ |
| transcript.gazette[56].quality |
0.971 |
| transcript.gazette[57].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[57].start |
2026-05-20T17:05:58.472000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[57].end |
2026-05-20T17:05:59.072000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[57].text |
這個請國防部再研究。 |
| transcript.gazette[57].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[58].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[58].start |
2026-05-20T17:05:59.172000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[58].end |
2026-05-20T17:06:35.882000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[58].text |
我說我們商跟軍之間，如果未來必須要有一個合理的介面，現在考慮的是這些合理的介面，不會因為不同的部會來主政，讓它將來在整個指揮系統上、運用系統上發生變化，但是無論是哪一個部分，比方說無人機，它可能可以……我現在還沒有作最後決定，它可能朝一個特別條例來進行，其他的部分，該一起放到特別條例的放到特別條例，或可以用追加的、用公務預算的，可以分開來處理，但是介面一定要非常清楚。 |
| transcript.gazette[58].quality |
0.856 |
| transcript.gazette[59].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[59].start |
2026-05-20T17:06:37.662000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[59].end |
2026-05-20T17:06:42.683000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[59].text |
我的意思是，像委製的部分，根據公開的資料有蠻多是委託中科院的，是不是？ |
| transcript.gazette[59].quality |
0.742 |
| transcript.gazette[60].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[60].start |
2026-05-20T17:06:43.944000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[60].end |
2026-05-20T17:06:47.744000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[60].text |
中科院最大的就是我們現在所需要臺灣之盾的那個強弓。 |
| transcript.gazette[60].quality |
0.958 |
| transcript.gazette[61].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[61].start |
2026-05-20T17:06:48.805000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[61].end |
2026-05-20T17:06:49.265000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[61].text |
然後還有無人機？ |
| transcript.gazette[61].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[62].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[62].start |
2026-05-20T17:06:50.927000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[62].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:11.033000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[62].text |
無人機的部分，基本上這次擺在特別預算裡面，是運用公開採購的方式在國內建立一個長單，就是一個多年期，然後來建構一個自主的供應鏈，這樣的部分擺在這一次的特別條例，因為不是把所有的無人載具都放在這裡面。 |
| transcript.gazette[62].quality |
0.956 |
| transcript.gazette[63].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[63].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:11.033000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[63].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:19.415000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[63].text |
我知道，我的意思是因為有些是委製的部分，那商購比如有一些是國內的廠商，有一些是國外的，對不對？ |
| transcript.gazette[63].quality |
0.976 |
| transcript.gazette[64].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[64].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:20.357000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[64].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:21.157000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[64].text |
無人機的部分…… |
| transcript.gazette[64].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[65].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[65].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:21.538000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[65].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:22.958000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[65].text |
我不是指無人機的部分而已。 |
| transcript.gazette[65].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[66].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[66].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:24.419000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[66].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:25.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[66].text |
對，當然，有…… |
| transcript.gazette[66].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[67].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:25.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[67].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:27.880000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[67].text |
對，那就涉及…… |
| transcript.gazette[67].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[68].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[68].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:27.880000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[68].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:31.262000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[68].text |
有一些部分不會採商購的方式。 |
| transcript.gazette[68].quality |
0.615 |
| transcript.gazette[69].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[69].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:32.122000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[69].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:38.705000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[69].text |
對，那就涉及到到底要編在特別條例比較好，還是編在年度預算比較好。 |
| transcript.gazette[69].quality |
0.897 |
| transcript.gazette[70].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[70].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:39.786000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[70].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:49.173000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[70].text |
跟委員報告，我想院長剛剛也指示我們，我們現在就是……剛剛您不是列了一大串被刪減的項目嗎？對。 |
| transcript.gazette[70].quality |
0.9 |
| transcript.gazette[71].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[71].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:49.774000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[71].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:56.479000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[71].text |
那這些刪減項目的性質，我們看能不能放到年度預算中，有一些部分可以。對啊。 |
| transcript.gazette[71].quality |
0.906 |
| transcript.gazette[72].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[72].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:56.719000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[72].end |
2026-05-20T17:07:59.722000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[72].text |
那有一些部分我們是不是用追加預算？ |
| transcript.gazette[72].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[73].start |
2026-05-20T17:07:59.722000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[73].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:00.722000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[73].text |
是，所以我就問…… |
| transcript.gazette[73].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[74].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[74].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:00.202000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[74].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:12.275000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[74].text |
那有一些部分用特別條例，所以我們國防部的首要責任就是儘快檢討這些被刪除的項目如何在後續的年度進行編列。 |
| transcript.gazette[74].quality |
0.98 |
| transcript.gazette[75].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[75].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:14.278000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[75].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:15.379000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[75].text |
好，那大概哪時候會做個決定？ |
| transcript.gazette[75].quality |
0.833 |
| transcript.gazette[76].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[76].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:16.040000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[76].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:17.522000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[76].text |
因為總是有一些原則會先出來嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[76].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[77].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[77].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:20.682000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[77].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:23.704000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[77].text |
我想在行政院的指導之下，我們會…… |
| transcript.gazette[77].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[78].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[78].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:23.704000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[78].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:29.146000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[78].text |
我們現在最快的希望是明天開始這個特別預算就能夠審，特別預算開始審了之後…… |
| transcript.gazette[78].quality |
0.912 |
| transcript.gazette[79].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[79].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:29.786000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[79].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:30.527000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[79].text |
我們是下週啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[79].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[80].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[80].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:31.047000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[80].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:33.048000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[80].text |
如果現在我們也馬上講一個時間點…… |
| transcript.gazette[80].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[81].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[81].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:33.588000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[81].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:39.651000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[81].text |
我還期待我們的總預算，也要趕快審，因為我們要辦後續的…… |
| transcript.gazette[81].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[82].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[82].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:40.491000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[82].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:41.331000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[82].text |
追加也是要總預算過啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[82].quality |
0.7 |
| transcript.gazette[83].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[83].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:42.052000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[83].end |
2026-05-20T17:08:46.534000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[83].text |
我們也希望能夠看到總預算在我們國防的部分變成什麼樣。 |
| transcript.gazette[83].quality |
0.96 |
| transcript.gazette[84].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[84].start |
2026-05-20T17:08:47.154000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[84].end |
2026-05-20T17:09:01.181000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[84].text |
好，講到總預算，現在外界有很多誤解，就是說國防部的預算有9,495億，其實這不是正確的資訊，因為你們國防部自己的預算才5,614億。對。 |
| transcript.gazette[84].quality |
0.792 |
| transcript.gazette[85].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[85].start |
2026-05-20T17:09:01.181000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[85].end |
2026-05-20T17:09:09.466000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[85].text |
然後我們講的9,495億是指國防預算，因為你們…… |
| transcript.gazette[85].quality |
0.722 |
| transcript.gazette[86].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[86].start |
2026-05-20T17:09:12.649000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[86].end |
2026-05-20T17:09:33.697000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[86].text |
當時講說要破3%，而且我們GDP現在一直成長得很厲害，好，景氣太好，我們的重點是這樣子，當時的9,495億已經將特別條例包括這一次的特別條例，還有海空戰力特別提升、F-16這些特別條例的預算，都已經預估放在這裡面了。 |
| transcript.gazette[86].quality |
0.868 |
| transcript.gazette[87].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[87].start |
2026-05-20T17:09:34.277000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[87].end |
2026-05-20T17:09:36.940000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[87].text |
對，因為你們這個…… |
| transcript.gazette[87].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[88].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[88].start |
2026-05-20T17:09:36.940000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[88].end |
2026-05-20T17:09:40.924000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[88].text |
剛剛王安祥委員有幫我們試算了一下，大概9,495億已經…… |
| transcript.gazette[88].quality |
0.909 |
| transcript.gazette[89].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[89].start |
2026-05-20T17:09:40.924000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[89].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:22.489000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[89].text |
好，我是按照主計總處還有你們國防部的主計單位講的，編列這個特別預算，包含了新式戰機的採購，還有海空戰力提升計畫，除了這個之外，還要另外編列特別預算有1,176億，這1,176億，其中76億是屬於海巡署的國防安全防衛韌性預算，另外的1,100億分為兩案，那都是跟國防部有關係，有一半就跟剛剛一樣是國土安全防衛韌性預算，這我們已經過了嘛，另外一個就是本來要通過防衛的這一個軍購特別預算，後來就沒有了。 |
| transcript.gazette[89].quality |
0.846 |
| transcript.gazette[90].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[90].start |
2026-05-20T17:10:24.310000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[90].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:39.393000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[90].text |
光是特別預算就有四個，F-16、海空戰力，還有一個是經濟部的安全韌性，再加上我們現在打算要通過的特別條例，然後因為我們按照NATO，就是北約的計算標準，所以我們加計海巡跟加計…… |
| transcript.gazette[90].quality |
0.922 |
| transcript.gazette[91].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[91].start |
2026-05-20T17:10:39.393000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[91].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:47.275000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[91].text |
對、對，我知道，這些加起來的我知道啦，但是有些人不了解，他以為這些都是屬於國防部的預算，國防部的預算就五千多億而已嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[91].quality |
0.942 |
| transcript.gazette[92].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[92].start |
2026-05-20T17:10:47.515000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[92].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:50.576000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[92].text |
所以剛剛有委員一直在說我們是九千多再加上去，這個講法是不對的。 |
| transcript.gazette[92].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[93].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[93].start |
2026-05-20T17:10:52.896000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[93].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:56.899000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[93].text |
好，我的意思是本來你們的預計，今年如果1.25兆都過的話，你們不是編了500億？ |
| transcript.gazette[93].quality |
0.967 |
| transcript.gazette[94].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[94].start |
2026-05-20T17:10:56.919000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[94].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:57.399000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[94].text |
這個軍購特別條例本來是編了500億進去就對了？對啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[94].quality |
0.905 |
| transcript.gazette[95].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[95].start |
2026-05-20T17:10:57.640000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[95].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:58.140000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[95].text |
因為今年是88…… |
| transcript.gazette[95].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[96].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[96].start |
2026-05-20T17:10:58.420000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[96].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:58.420000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[96].text |
現在剩88億嘛。 |
| transcript.gazette[96].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[97].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[97].start |
2026-05-20T17:10:58.560000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[97].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:58.880000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[97].text |
88億，所以這個…… |
| transcript.gazette[97].quality |
0.4 |
| transcript.gazette[98].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[98].start |
2026-05-20T17:10:58.880000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[98].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:59.880000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[98].text |
還要再扣下去？ |
| transcript.gazette[98].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[99].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[99].start |
2026-05-20T17:10:58.981000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[99].end |
2026-05-20T17:10:59.301000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[99].text |
這個金額要往下扣。 |
| transcript.gazette[99].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[100].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[100].start |
2026-05-20T17:11:14.532000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[100].end |
2026-05-20T17:11:35.027000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[100].text |
好，我想問，國防部今年這一個軍事投資預算1,616億，其中只有84億是用在新增案，如果你要把無人機1,500億的預算分6年把它編進去，一年要編兩百多億，那麼會不會排擠其他的國防的預算？ |
| transcript.gazette[100].quality |
0.905 |
| transcript.gazette[101].speaker |
顧部長立雄 |
| transcript.gazette[101].start |
2026-05-20T17:11:37.591000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[101].end |
2026-05-20T17:11:42.816000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[101].text |
所以這就是我們現在要跟主計總處商量，然後要接受行政院的指導…… |
| transcript.gazette[101].quality |
0.679 |
| transcript.gazette[102].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[102].start |
2026-05-20T17:11:42.976000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[102].end |
2026-05-20T17:11:58.368000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[102].text |
基本上是沒有辦法全部或是很大的部分就放在年度預算，即使年度預算採連續幾年的預算，但每年這樣分下來，會讓我們相關其他的預算發生一些影響。 |
| transcript.gazette[102].quality |
0.984 |
| transcript.gazette[103].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[103].start |
2026-05-20T17:11:58.368000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[103].end |
2026-05-20T17:11:59.329000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[103].text |
所以還是可能會編在特別預算裡面？ |
| transcript.gazette[103].quality |
0.6 |
| transcript.gazette[104].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[104].start |
2026-05-20T17:11:59.469000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[104].end |
2026-05-20T17:11:59.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[104].text |
基本上是這樣子，沒有錯。 |
| transcript.gazette[104].quality |
0.3 |
| transcript.gazette[105].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[105].start |
2026-05-20T17:11:59.609000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[105].end |
2026-05-20T17:12:11.356000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[105].text |
好，最後再請教一下院長，因為我們還有一個140億的軍購還在川普那邊，要等川普的同意。 |
| transcript.gazette[105].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[106].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[106].start |
2026-05-20T17:12:12.337000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[106].end |
2026-05-20T17:12:31.129000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[106].text |
我是根據公開的報導，這筆預算主要聚焦於強化臺灣的防空攔截能力，還有防空體系的升級，大概有包含愛國者三型，或是國家先進地對空飛彈系統。 |
| transcript.gazette[106].quality |
0.984 |
| transcript.gazette[107].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[107].start |
2026-05-20T17:12:31.129000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[107].end |
2026-05-20T17:12:55.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[107].text |
這是公開的資料，我不用部長回答我是或是不是，我只是要問一下，現在有所謂的疑賴論跟疑美論又出現了，你說如果現在140億的第二批軍購沒有過的話，是民進黨的責任，但是我要講如果當初早點通過的話，不就好了嗎？ |
| transcript.gazette[107].quality |
0.921 |
| transcript.gazette[108].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[108].start |
2026-05-20T17:12:55.526000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[108].end |
2026-05-20T17:13:17.717000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[108].text |
委員，所謂疑美論是認為美國應該跟我們很好，但是他有沒有不知道，但臺灣卻沒有疑中論，他永遠不會對我們好啦！好啦！ |
| transcript.gazette[108].quality |
0.694 |
| transcript.gazette[109].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[109].start |
2026-05-20T17:13:18.217000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[109].end |
2026-05-20T17:13:29.645571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[109].text |
所以要注意一下，我看網軍開始有在放話，說如果沒有過的話，就是民進黨的責任，要稍微注意一下。 |
| transcript.gazette[109].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[110].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[110].start |
2026-05-20T17:13:29.945571+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[110].end |
2026-05-20T17:13:34.802714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[110].text |
我們會努力爭取國防所需要的相關預算。 |
| transcript.gazette[110].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[111].speaker |
李委員坤城 |
| transcript.gazette[111].start |
2026-05-20T17:13:35.102714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[111].end |
2026-05-20T17:13:36.102714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[111].text |
好，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[111].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[112].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[112].start |
2026-05-20T17:13:36.402714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[112].end |
2026-05-20T17:13:42.974143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[112].text |
謝謝李坤城委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、國防部長備詢，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[112].quality |
0.174 |
| transcript.gazette[113].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[113].start |
2026-05-20T17:13:43.274143+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[113].end |
2026-05-20T17:13:48.702714+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[113].text |
接下來請林沛祥委員質詢，王定宇委員請準備。 |
| transcript.gazette[113].quality |
0 |