| IVOD_ID |
169502 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169502 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-20T16:08:21+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-20T16:24:16+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:55 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e8e93c7ebde79baee9b343dad2dd90db7568857f6f1e6f3bf57941b4e5e85ff91429c243362692245ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
王安祥 |
| 委員發言時間 |
16:08:21 - 16:24:16 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-20T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「本（第5）會期延長會期至115年7月31日止。」是否有當？請公決案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、總統彈劾案事項。（5月19日上午）四、「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案籌編相關事項」專案報告。（5月19日下午）五、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國防部部長及相關部會首長列席報告保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案編製經過並備質詢。【如經本院同意行政院籌編特別預算案則於5月20日(三)下午加開】六、5月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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王安祥委員請質詢翁家斌委員請準備感謝院長,有請卓院長跟國安部長國安部再請卓院長、國安部長備選 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
33.485 |
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黃委員好 院長好部長好我們再加上現在送進來特別條例的88億大概我們這個依北約標準納托的標準加上退府跟海巡的部分大概就是8827億年度的預算應該已經過了這個3%雖然離這個川普總統說還有一點距離不過我想我們今年應該可以達到這個3%的一個水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
63.069 |
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首先我從二月上任之後其實我就很關注這個議題就是確實能夠讓發酵素LOA的部分能夠生效我想他有兩個要件不管是院長還是部長都一直在強調一個就是要簽署一個就是要交付投機款因為我們現在特別條例已經到這個程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
86.751 |
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112.159 |
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這個這樣的進度了所以基本上看起來現在應該可以先動用應該依這個預算法84條的部分應該是可以先這個動用這個部分去做簽約的動作部長應該這樣說應該沒有錯是那個因為今天上午已經通過經過特別預算的案含送立法院審議那我們就會依照預算法的84條然後先就報請這個行政院統一來 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
113.639 |
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137.825 |
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先行店戶這個竣購案的首期所以就法治面上現在應該是完備的,應該是OK啦先行店戶等到預算通過之後再把它規定回來好,那這個我二月以來就開始一直去研究這個國軍的建案的這個作業相關的一些規定那這一頁投影片可以看到這是我們過去的FMS的一個 |
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139.245 |
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162.712 |
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程序啦可能包含這個需求啦然後做細分然後就會有一個LOR for P&A啦所以過去我們常常在講這個P&A啦然後呢就會有一個整規啦整規的部分然後就會送行政跟立法院然後就會有一個LOR for LOA我想這個也很重要啦然後智慧國會啦然後就會有一個LOA啦 |
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163.988 |
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174.581 |
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不過可以看一下下一頁投影片就是以這一次特別條例的部分我以我們拿到的所有這個監案程序上的日期我做了一些排序 |
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175.922 |
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那看起來我們跟美方好像過去常常在PMA上其實要做一些磋商目前看起來好像美國跟我們可能是更有默契我們好像很多好像不需要PMA好像直接就可以進入到比較後段的部分包括LOR4這樣部長應該是吧?是因為我們跟美國好像溝通程序上是比較OK的是不是? |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
200.096 |
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223.857 |
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因為我們這一次是上議之後他們另外有一個保證性函然後來做作為一個基礎然後所以但是一般來講還是要有PMA先有一個ROM就出戶報價然後有PMA然後再有LOA這一次我們雙方對這些案項有做過相當的討論 |
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227.16 |
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241.526 |
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對,因為比較特別,其實這個部長可以看這頁投影片我們都是這個LOA,我們才做細分跟這個整規啦那這個等一下也可能部長可以跟我們這個說明一下,大概現在的一個建案的一個程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
243.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
259.518 |
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我是在這裡建議,是不是說我們可以在LOR4LOA的時候,基本上可能用一些比較機敏的會議的部分,是不是就可以來跟立法院做一下說明?會不會對後續的整個這個建案的程序會比較有幫助? |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
260.988 |
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285.004 |
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我們原則上LOR或LOA之後會有一個就您講的一個細分因為我們現在有作戰需求文件嘛然後有一個細分然後細分之後我們還有一個期成功項期成功項之後我們還有一個整體獲得規劃書那這個整規書編定以後這個建案才正式成立那建案正式成立的時候呢美國那邊不一定有拿到 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
286.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
306.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
他已經啟動了那個智慧國會的程序所以我們在以前的時候都會在這個時候我們如果編列的話我們就會向立法院來做報告如果說是還沒有智慧國會就是採機密專報的方式那已經智慧國會就公開了對 所以我剛剛說就是以過去的這個是過去的程序啦那這一張是現在的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
307.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
332.296 |
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所以我的建議是不是就是跟這個部長建議就是說如果要這個程序比較順暢尤其在前面的某些階段上尤其我剛剛說的LOA是不是就可以給這個立法院有一些部分的資訊因為LOA只是一個我們的一個需求文件我知道但是我們接下來進案的程序還沒有完整規劃之前那還有相關的這些系統分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
333.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
348.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
的一個需求然後另外有一個騎乘工項的需求所以這些要做一個整體的規劃之後然後才能夠就成本啊那個各個案項或相關的騎乘啊等等那這個時候來報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
350.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
378.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就便利預算來報告會比較完整一點如果還沒有完成建案部長有看到這個程序嘛就那個114年的8月您講的好像是說在我們還沒有完成這個整規書之前就來報我只是跟委員報告就是說整規書完成建案之後會有比較詳細的一個規劃再跟委員做報告會比較詳盡一點就是就這樣啦 不然因為你看齁這個在那個行政院這個部分齁 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
380.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
393.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
從8月到11月送到立法院,其實這裡也過了三個月部長還記得上一次特別條例的程序嗎?對,我們11月27送特別條例所以這三個月是在做一些討論嗎?還是說? |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
396.315 |
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415.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
您是說,因為我們這個是特別預算,它又有另外一個程序,它要先送條例,條例是先審條例以後再送預算嗎?是所以條例要通過才能夠送預算?對,因為後面就是LOA就跑出來了,所以後來就會,我的意思是說後來就會有一些覺得時程上好像蠻緊迫的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
416.272 |
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438.12 |
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所以我們當時的規劃是先送特別條例希望條例通過之後我們就先向預算案送進來不用等到美國一定要完成智慧國會的程序那如果他在審議的過程已經智慧國會就可以列公開我們當時特別條例是希望能夠通過之後就送預算案進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
438.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
456.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以我的意思是說,是不是比較前段的部分,就可以提供一些立法院不必要的資訊也許對後面的整個程序進行會比較順暢那我想昨天其實在專報的時候,其實很多委員提到這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
457.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
471.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
大概現在我們在對美軍購的部分大概就是按照這個程序首先我們會在台北財務組會做一些結會會到駐美的代表團這邊另外我們就會有兩個帳戶一個是聯邦儲蓄的帳戶跟DFAS的帳戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
476.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
496.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
那其實昨天有很多委員提到就是有關於那個在那個聯邦主席賬戶的部分昨天好像這個院長也說那個都可以諮詢就沒有確定的時候其實是這個錢會不會付出去對那另外就是這一塊DFAS這一塊我覺得它在運作的時候實際上會有一些金額的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
497.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
515.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那我不曉得這塊落差的話應該要怎麼處理?比如說他們還有一些不管是在儲蓄帳戶或者是DFA那DFA這邊也會有一些差距嗎?跟委員報告就是說我們要進入FRB就是你講的那個聯邦儲蓄帳戶裡面的那個部分應該還是屬於我們所擁有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
520.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
544.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
我們即使要匯出去,審計單位也是要關切,就是說你為什麼要匯出這筆錢所以他們如果有一些金額的落差,看起來最後一段要匯回台灣那在匯回台灣之前,那些餘額的部分如果結案之後,餘額的部分要匯回我現在那個圖的左邊的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
547.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
568.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
對,這張案完結之後,有決議款就要退回到來國庫所以他們大概程序會來清查?對,就是時效上、時間上、程序上大概會比如說我們現在一個八案的建案程序,大概它的時程會怎麼樣?有些建案的程序會是蠻多年期對,像這次可能就是要8年,也是8年再做一個週期嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
569.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
他每個案子的這個執行的期限都不一樣那結案之後有結一款就會把它要回來所以每個案項的執行的期程都不一定對,所以像現在投影片這個案子我們最近有去看就是有關於這個已經是絕標案子後來我發現這個案子其實當初是104年到108年的簽約的他本來的期程你講的那個,你講的海馬是嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
597.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
607.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
不是,這是一個防空系統,現在我上面的一個防空系統本來是TWD GCO本來是104到108年的一個建案不過現在看起來它已經延續到109,作為一頁展延到109到114年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
617.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
643.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
對 所以我要問的部分就是說這個展延的部分是不是所謂的延續就回到剛剛的問題這個什麼樣的這個LOA的展延我們必須要知會我們立法院的部分LOA展延也就是說美方我們跟台美雙方會有一個同意做一個發價數的一個展延那就把這個之音的期程再往後拉這樣子對 所以LOA的展延是用預算法54條嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
646.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
673.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
沒有,因為這個美國的軍售安裝是屬於美國對我們的安全承諾然後合約是由美國的政府跟美國合約商簽所以他這樣子的一個展言也就是他跟我們之間的這個承諾在這個部分上面大家討論是不是要將執行的期限再往後移我們是不是有定一個多少金額以上的LOA也許這個要展言就必須要到立法院來說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
676.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
695.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
一定金額以上是不是要到立法院?像這個案子就是直接就斬言了啦,104就已經斬言下去了,108就已經斬言了這個部分可能我要再確認一下那也許會後再跟部長就交一下這個其實昨天也很多委員提到,就是反甲型無人機這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
697.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
719.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這個好像簽署比較慢,部長是不是要再跟大家說一下這個狀況是大概是怎麼樣?您是說那個Otis 5月16號,因為Otis的發價的現在是草案,我昨天有聽部長解釋就我了解他們在內部審查有做了一些修正,所以發價數的草案就給了比較晚一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
720.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
745.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
對,所以也就是說其實他本來看起來是同一批,可是你看現在發大數就比較慢對不對?是他們有做一些調整嗎?他是在知會國會的那個案裡面的其中一個案那花架書的草案給的比較晚好,那所以這個我這邊問一下,這個當初我們剛剛看到,現在大家都說AOA for AOA了嘛這個大概時間,部長還記得大概時間是什麼時候嗎?當初AOA for AOA的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
749.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
770.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
您說當時我們發出LOR或LOA的時間點我必須要再...沒關係,這個應該是時間啦,我想...應該是七、八月間吧,我記得是這樣子是是是,那其實大家現在也非常關切啦,就是那個第二批的部分啦所以我剛剛一直在講這個界外的程序啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
771.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
785.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
因為第二批的部分現在蠻多委員,還有我想社會大眾都非常關注我們會細分,細分可能會有一些不替代的方案我不曉得如果現在第二批有一些狀況,不曉得有沒有什麼替代方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
788.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
813.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
我剛剛也有跟這個前面的委員有報告就是說他要看這個案項的不同那我現在也沒辦法公布是哪些案項所以我跟您回答我就是希望說不要有任何的一個能力的部分大概就是這樣那這些相關的這些需要建置的這些能力的部分如果說 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
816.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
845.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
我們相信我們還是樂觀啦我也希望啦那當然我們就要靠這個相關其他的這個程序我剛剛也有報告就是說中科院也有可能透過這個跟其他國外的廠商透過基礎移轉透過共同研發透過共同產製來進行那因為有一些案像中科院本來就有一些能量那還有一些部分當然就是說我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
846.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
874.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
也有可能透過跟國外商購的部分來取得好,感謝部長,因為時間關係好,那沒關係,我們會後也許就叫部長接下來就是這個,我看到這次預算是售期跟維護成本在第一年有編制像我看到預算書最後面30月的部分其實就有編制部分的售期我先問一下,那個售期的計算大概是怎麼處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
875.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
897.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
跟售期的部分是這樣子就是說他有兩個概念一個是有關那個初步的備份料件的這個部分也就是說我們講的就是說他的一個獲得的放在一個軍事投資的預算籌過的裡面他會有一個兩到三年的初次備份的料件這個是含在那個軍頭裡面的那這個時候暫時不用編這個後勤的 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
903.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
917.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
這個後勤的成本過了兩三年之後這個出資備份料件完了之後那就要有一個運作跟資源的成本這個就有維護的成本部長這次我送進來那個海馬士數量是有差別的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
918.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
936.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這個原來是1203箱現在是4320枚我們一箱六枚來看其實差了720箱左右不曉得這個狀況部長有沒有看到還哪是精準火箭的部分我的了解是那個項目沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
953.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
953.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好 謝謝 |