| IVOD_ID |
169500 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169500 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-20T15:27:17+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-20T15:42:57+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:40 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e8e93c7ebde79bae539e047e854ae6227568857f6f1e6f3b5ac68e728eefcbde47ccdd74f879e5a25ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳冠廷 |
| 委員發言時間 |
15:27:17 - 15:42:57 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-20T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「本（第5）會期延長會期至115年7月31日止。」是否有當？請公決案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、總統彈劾案事項。（5月19日上午）四、「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案籌編相關事項」專案報告。（5月19日下午）五、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國防部部長及相關部會首長列席報告保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案編製經過並備質詢。【如經本院同意行政院籌編特別預算案則於5月20日(三)下午加開】六、5月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
0.229 |
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20.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[0].text |
你好,我們請院長、國防部長、經濟部長麻煩再請國務院長、國防部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
29.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
56.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
經濟部長備詢陳委員好院長好院長這一次的國防的這個特別條例因為經過很多次的朝野協商但是也看到很多國民黨在野黨內部其實有一些不同的聲音那經過努力的協商之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
57.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
74.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
很遺憾商購跟違制的部分還是沒有被納入這一次的特別條例裡面那不管如何這7800億的這個軍購我想要請教一下商購跟違制它被排除後行政院後續的補救方式是要怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
93.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
今天總統有特別提到可能有包含再提特別條例或者是增加追加預算或者是在擴大一般預算裡面來去做這一個挑戰我們把這一個國防的這些預算的把它做是調整我想請教院長一下這些做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
94.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
107.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
我們要怎麼樣去把它推進因為如果這一檔他一開始就不支持我們把這些商購為之放進去那我們再這一次再如果提出特別條例的話這次會有什麼不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
108.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
130.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
謝謝委員我也知道委員在這一次的各種的審查的會議當中確實是從各方的這個角度來為這個國防預算的特別預算的特別預算的特別條例做了很多的努力代表特別的感謝我想這個是國家所需要的那我們如何來因應後續的發展首先應該是讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
133.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
144.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
國會多數的這個在野黨的委員知道目前這樣的狀況將會使我們影響到國內本土軍工相關的廠商他的產線來做一個掀起的準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
145.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
170.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
也會影響到我們跟國際合作的機會甚而會影響到我們國內在民主供應鏈上無人機產業這個產業鏈的形成這個影響是非常大的那這樣的發展下來的話我們失去了國際的信任也失去了自我軍工產業發展的機會甚至於我們在整個國防的這個防衛上面我們不論是在這個決策 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
173.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
195.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
全域增資以及指管決策或者是高效打擊各方面來自防衛任性都有不足所以這四塊都有不足最重要的我們也失去了本土產業自主發展的這個拼圖所以未來我們到底要形成是用另外一個特別條例加特別預算來應處或者是我們用各種形式的追加預算以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
196.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
217.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
部分能否納入到年度的公募預算當中我們政跟國防部在以後每一年的如何的推敲如何來形成再做個嚴密的一個討論我們希望就內容程序而言就時效而言能夠有效的而且能夠應付到未來每一年的需求讓我們採取一個最有力的方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
217.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
244.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那之後再請大院朝野各黨團的委員能夠看到剛剛所說過的目前的幾個缺失能夠來彌補從時效上內容上來彌補院長有幾個方案我們來思考一下因為我們現在已經計定事實了維持三個商會沒有在這一則特別條例裡面那同時軍購我們最新得到的消息是至少在這個美國總統接受專訪的時候他有提到說這140多億美金有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
245.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
273.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
過也有可能不過所以這是操之在別人身上的那操之在我們身上的就是我們自己能不能夠用其他的方案來去推動我們的國人的自己的無人載具的能力首先在野黨今天稍早有提到有沒有可能是以經濟部主導的無人載具的特別條例那我講他們說以經濟部作為主導但是不代表說國防部科技部 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
274.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
298.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
不能夠在裡面擔任重要的角色就是說在也已經是多數的狀況之下我們的方案是什麼我們當然可以提出特別條例以國防部為主以國防部來主導的這個方案我們當然也可以用追加預算由國防部來提出追加預算但是除了這兩個之外的方案有沒有其他方案能夠去思考我為什麼要再提出其他方案的思考模式是因為假設三個禮拜前 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
299.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
327.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
他們把商購跟委制全部排除掉三個禮拜後為什麼他們會重新接受我們國防部支持的最佳預算或者是特別條例所以我們必須要思考說在他們內部裡面怎麼樣創造可能性那國民黨內部現在我們很清楚他大概是有幾個不同的聲音一個是比較務實的聲音一個基本上就是跟中共唱和的聲音那我們要增加最多的夥伴減少最少的敵人我們才可以專注我們現在面臨的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
328.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
356.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
那所以這個部分我今天稍早在經濟部的質詢的時候我有請問部長那部長是說要看這個院長這邊有沒有新的想法那他們會來去進行相應的配合這個部分是不是請部長簡單先回應一下然後再請院長來看看我先說一下再請部長來說因為這個是界面的問題現在的七千八百億主導是國防部在主導那麼未來我們剛剛說的指管決策就是大腦 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
357.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
378.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那如果有了一些武器裝備但大腦不是由國防部來主導卻由經濟部來主導這個大腦這個大腦跟這個手腳能不能配合得上我倒是懷疑不過如果裡面有這樣的一個想法我要請國防部就這個做法它的缺失或這個做法是否可行國防部應該來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
380.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
398.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
委員的意思應該是說是專就無人載具特別是無人機的部分是不是這不是我的意思這是國民黨在野黨他們今天稍早提出來說提出無人載具的特別條例就是在補這一次三千多億的那一塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
399.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
419.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
那這三件東西如果不是由國防部主導的話那當然就是他一定會喪失一些他的規格等等的可能就不是國防部所要的但是從此他又能夠培養無能載具我們的生產能力那怎麼樣把這些生產能力化為居民共用這就是另外一個挑戰但是我就說我們現在能夠思考的所有方案裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
420.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
448.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
想要請部長來簡單回應一下他們的這個說法如果可行那怎麼做如果不可行我們要怎麼呼籲他們來調整畢竟如果是做軍用的話那他就是涉及到說這個主管的我想我們直接講條例的話就涉及到主管機關那如果說是軍用的裝備的話那當然回到我們軍用來做的話就會涉及到主管機關是國防部的 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
448.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
477.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那應該是如果設置成類似經濟部這種統籌型計畫那要淋漓一個特別條例那能不能涵蓋這個軍用的裝備的部分由經濟部來主導我覺得這個可能有一些法律上面要思考的一些問題那所以我想剛剛已經院長已經說了我們也許各種方案我們都可以來檢討但是如果是純粹是國防部要用的這個軍用裝備的部分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
477.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
480.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那特別是屬於這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
481.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
509.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
要特別條例的話那一定要考量到這個主管機關的問題這樣子如果主要是做軍用的話那部長有沒有可能分流處理就比方說在無人載具的時候在軍民共同的時候當然這些彈藥管制條例裡面所有的籌載或者是這些殺傷之類的武器當然是不能夠由民間去做的但是在無人載具本身它在軍民通用的這個部分是不是經濟部就有機會有角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
511.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
537.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那也就是說委員的意思就是說像我們這一次當然就是說火弓箭的部分是由我們軍備局因為按照強暴盜竊管這不可能有民間嘛所以我們在軍備局委制之後他要公開招標的時候他也是按政府採購法那他公開採購的時候是採購沒有火弓箭的部分那最後再由火弓箭的部分再由軍備局來做那這兩個是不是我意思說這樣子有沒有辦法某種程度補充一些量能 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
539.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
559.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
補充我們這次缺失的這3000多億用途跟需求是不大一樣的東西今天部長稍早也有提出一個是需求一個是供給一個是提出需求一個是提出供給那我們現在到底要怎麼樣做才可以把我們3000多億這個本來不被包括的能夠把它包括進去就是我們一直要思考的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
559.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
574.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以我們除了這個譴責這個把我們無人載具整個閹割掉的這個軍口條例之外我們現在要思考的是補救的方案怎麼樣才可以在現行方案之下能夠往前走所以我才請教部長這個有沒有這樣分流的規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
576.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
591.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
我會請國防部為主啦那麼他來提出未來的需求那因為經濟部現在我們也有一個無人機產業的統籌型計畫無人機產業發展的統籌型計畫那我相信那個都是比較商用的為主的那如果要進到 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
594.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
619.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
軍規 軍用的部分那應該是國防部為主但是兩邊這個界面能不能化開以及之後會不會有什麼影響我們還是值得來研討那如果有一個方向出現行不可行 可不可行的問題結論出現我會委請我們在大院裡面的朝野黨團來就未來該尋哪一條路徑來完成這個最後這塊拼圖我們來做更多的討論跟協商 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
621.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
645.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
院長今天稍早國防部來跟我們解釋預算的被凍減三的部分的時候有一些這一些案項是國防部向經濟部來去申請的研發案那是不是有被提案凍結那我的意思就是說經濟部的能量是可以被國防部所用的我們如果我請部長說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
647.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
674.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
因為經濟部還是在企業界甚至於有一些法人界我們提供它更大的製造能量或研發能量出來但是需求方的部分恐怕還是要國防部因為它如果是軍用的需求的話規格還是要他們開採購的金額可能也要編在他們那邊才有辦法要不然變成是我們採購給他們用這好像怪怪的 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
675.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
700.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
所以可能還是要有,當然我也同意經濟部可以扮演更多的角色,我是樂觀起承也非常同意好,謝謝部長老實說,我講這句話我並不認同說一定要有經濟部主導甚至我認為這本來就應該是有公安部主導,因為我們是要用來軍用的目標但是在已經沒有其他選擇的狀況之下,我才說請大家想方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
701.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
727.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
因為我們很遺憾的沒有多數那沒有多數的狀況之下在有人釋出相對的可能性的時候我們怎麼樣去把它做整合這才是我的問題因為我們現在要的是補救方案那當然如果可以的話我認為在一般預算裡面用計劃性的預算跨年度的預算其實我們公安部有蠻多這樣子的做法的是有機會再去往前推的 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
728.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
747.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
我想今年台灣的經濟成長率也在擴充我相信稅務也會擴充因為稅務擴充之後在一般的預算裡面也有機會來去擴充來去彌補我們這次3000多億左右的無人載具以及一些AI指管這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
749.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
766.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
其實就拿我們民雄航太園區來講民雄航太園區它現在有中科院來去做主導當然是非常好的軍規軍動這些大型的無人機等等的運動可是它的西部的地方就真的是需要經濟部財政部還有科技部以及外交部來去招商引資 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
767.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
786.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那這一些馬上可以均民兩用的這些產品如果再透過好的平台甚至像DIUDIO類型的這個平台就能夠快速為軍方所用那所以這就是我前幾週我特別在跟部長講break one |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
786.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
809.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個BRAVE ONE這個平台就等於是更加創新的一個平台把產業界、民間、學界、創投方全部都還有直接在第一線的戰鬥方就是由烏克蘭士兵直接提出需求在他們的網站上面那這個網站或者說這個平台的支援方就是經濟部、科技部還有他們的國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
810.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
837.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
以及他們的陸軍直接在上面士兵提出需求馬上進行所有的這些參與方科技工程師看到提出他們的解方解方一經驗證馬上大量生產大量擴產那他們這些工程師不是軍方的人員他們也不是一開始也沒有拿國防部的錢但是他們就可以快速的應用來快速的投產他們有什麼一個網站就一個網站你是什麼樣你是技術提供者 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
837.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
851.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
你是創投提供者你想要投資還是你想要生產每個人都可以在那個平台裡面我今天講這一個概念這其實就是DIU最早的概念就是讓每一個能有機會參與的 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
853.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
881.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
小企業小創投都能夠參與我為什麼講這個因為4800億或者是說現在140多億美金的軍售他假設在最最最最最最最糟糕的狀況之下如果被暫緩因為傳習會之後或者是等等的可能性出現的時候我們該怎麼辦其實剛才他們都在講在野黨都在說你們的軍購很多東西都還沒有到啊都還在延宕啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
882.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
911.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那所以怎麼辦所以就是要有自己國家的產能啊那所以要怎麼辦所以你們要自己生產自己研發啊所以如果當我們對外軍售遇到外交上的阻難的時候我們該怎麼辦增加我們的產線增加我們的這個彈藥的這個擴充擴充我們這些彈藥的能力啊但是這一次全部都被阻斷掉了那怎麼辦商購跟委資就必須要具備所以我們的論述也是很清楚每次都說你這個又嚴大所以為什麼我們要跟美國軍購 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
912.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
939.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
如果你們真的這樣覺得的話那就是要把商購跟委制把它完備嘛那不論如何這個部分我還是請院長能夠去思考一下各種可能的方案接下來的下半年我相信我們外交的這個挑戰會更援軍那請院長來好好協調看看有沒有辦法在現有的框架不管是一般預算還是用各個部會的能量把它具備我們無人載具的能力好 謝謝委員的提醒跟指教 謝謝 |