| IVOD_ID |
169498 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169498 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-20 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-10 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
10 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-20T14:55:13+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-20T15:11:02+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:49 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e8e93c7ebde79baeee69f0a51e0ddce57568857f6f1e6f3b5ac68e728eefcbde42b2a9aabf465d0c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
陳永康 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:55:13 - 15:11:02 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-20T14:30:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第10次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團，建請院會作成決議：「本（第5）會期延長會期至115年7月31日止。」是否有當？請公決案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、總統彈劾案事項。（5月19日上午）四、「保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案籌編相關事項」專案報告。（5月19日下午）五、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、國防部部長及相關部會首長列席報告保衛國家安全及強化不對稱戰力計畫第一批發價書採購特別預算案編製經過並備質詢。【如經本院同意行政院籌編特別預算案則於5月20日(三)下午加開】六、5月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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紅康委員質詢 紅玉祥委員請準備韓院長 院理各位同仁好我們今天有請這個卓院長以及國防部顧部長麻煩請卓院長顧部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
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陳委員好院長好部長好昨天我也在院會聽取了大院的報告以及所有這個發言委員的整個諮詢經過我看到我們所有委員以不同的面向不同的角度切註當然中間也有很多很細膩的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
54.98 |
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但承蒙院長跟部長很細心的回覆那我今天希望用一個宏觀的角度就整體國防預算怎麼樣發揮它更加的效益強化我們的嚇阻力跟韌性提出一些建議那中間有部分地方也請院長跟部長指教 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
75.229 |
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101.242 |
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這張圖我們了解是國防部我第一次看到國防部用AI做輔助工具那麼做出一份簡報但這個簡報對第一次看的人大家覺得很驚訝但這裡面還有精進的空間就是它是一個二維的思維它是一個平面的探討那我們希望後續怎麼做現在特別強調我們這個台灣之盾台灣之盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
102.422 |
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122.131 |
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不管是從我們國家防衛整體構想以及未來獲得的武器裝備因為台灣之盾並不是一個美國的建制裝備所以它是基於我們現有的系統架構然後去提升性能那這個提升性能的過程中間就有一些 |
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123.231 |
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150.446 |
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AI的功能有一些界面他不是透過軍售能夠獲得那因此可能就要透過直接商售但是在直接商售呢因為過去這這個大半年中啊我們執政黨在野黨或者是我們的國防部我們在溝通過程中啊對於直接商售的定義啊並沒有講得很清楚那稍後我再向各位啊做一個說明 |
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151.82 |
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各位看这个右边就是我们国防部炉裂出来的从过去几年去年到现在我们要采购的装备那左边的这个雷达扫的画面这个就是我们现在一般战术态势这是一个2D的可是中间的这张图你就看到了它有不同的面向它有水平的整合有垂直的整合 |
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179.669 |
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昨天部長也講到了我們買的武器啊他有高中低但是性能呢 |
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189.465 |
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218.465 |
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不能有高中低性能只有用高价钱有高中低但是对应每一个不同的层级平面整合活力整合信号源的整合它这是一个三维的作业那这个部分因为并不是我们现有国内的装备所有那美方的AI的技术也有很多先进可是最近发生一个案例就是美国的Entropic公司它跟美国的战争部打官司 |
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219.065 |
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因為他的這個技術有些事出有些不願意用在作戰的裡面就是責任分攤的問題因此我這邊對國防部提出建議就是將來AI的導入的時候我們武裝衝突法戰爭法接戰規定啊這個條件要列的非常清晰就是哪些是 |
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240.413 |
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260.404 |
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低階層的直接的人就在系統裡面或者out of loop或者in the loop on the loop這個可能要進一步的就是說跟AI的界面要保持一個是互動關係但是不能完成授權對於小型無人機操作手那 |
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261.656 |
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285.973 |
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烏克蘭的戰場它的面積台灣的16.7倍烏東的戰場就兩個台灣所以成功的案例可以借鏡但不一定能複製因為Starlink在烏東光在烏克蘭就提供了5萬一個以上的地面連接點每個點又可以200個用戶那我們現在還希望我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
288.252 |
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309.527 |
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不管是速發部也好或者是其他的有關衛星國外的希望能夠盡快強化爭取更多的頻道跟頻寬那我們看下一張這是今天早晨的這個就是國防部公布的攻擊擾台的圖那把這個圖套上去你就看到對周遭國家的情勢這是一個概念這個圖是現階段我們國軍 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
314.972 |
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339.945 |
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C4ISR已經把過去的比方講遠程的樂山雷達空軍的空中預警機各種機動雷達或者遠程的飛彈在這個裡面陸軍被整合的裝備比較小但是還是有數據鏈路我們要從這個往一個台灣之盾的概念構想向到左邊來 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
341.175 |
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364.976 |
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那這個中間就產生了我們未來導入美方的科技那這個雲端是在哪裡還是我們還在放在國外這個可能要進一步跟技協的部分做探討因為如果你不能夠掌握雲端你只是做雲端的加密這個還是有一定的風險存在所以從我們現在的C4ISR |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
366.057 |
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387.427 |
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進到C5ISR我這邊建議加個T因為剛才在報告裡面講了我們的M142海馬斯火箭已經有射程可以到300公里但是這個打的是對方的機動目標它算一個Time Critical Target所以在這種動態下可是300公里以外的偵測通常是屬於空軍的 |
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388.667 |
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413.394 |
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遠程雷達空中雷達所以他要把這個資料feedback到我們這個系統中心再來做目標的分配所以要加一個targeting因為這個時間非常有限那這個系統啊在整合的過程中間就中間的圖像有包括資料量的整合整個系統流程的整合不同的三軍的優勢不同因為我們過去 |
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415.99 |
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從這個空軍啊天網強網這個環網環展一直在進步這個美國的組合商也有更新那海軍的雷達還有指管系統也在跟進陸軍現在切入也很進步但是三家的界面呢不同的美國廠商背景這個整合過程中間我們要花很多的工夫也就是說不只有工程的人員有法律的工程的會計師要一起來督導這個系統要他做一個有效的整合 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
446.189 |
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462.152 |
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那这个是我们就讲刚刚讲如果一个某个武器被耽误了你对中共两栖进犯的能力就是有点有所延误其实我向两位这个先进报告原来20年前我们西海岸都是红色海滩 |
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462.861 |
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481.853 |
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很多現在啊迎擊以下的紅色海灘只剩下少數幾個為什麼呢氣候變遷海水上升海灘後退海灘沒有深度西濱快速道路沿岸把海岸切斷就說沒有正面可以推進內陸再加上海堤海牆漁塘漁溫 |
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484.275 |
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504.695 |
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以及离岸风机就是说对方来讲享用正规的两栖进犯的几率已经不大了但是我们看右边这个图它那个红色不是海滩这是过去20年间就是严重的海滩侵蚀这是水利署河川局做的图 |
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505.219 |
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526.54 |
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再加上所有的這個設施工程在建所以把這個圖跟這個圖一比就是說我們過去演習的海灘選項可能要重新思考因為很多這個scenario很多的想定它已經不符了就像兩年前我們在巴黎海灘現在這個淡水大橋淡江大橋做完了那海灘對於切斷了 |
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527.721 |
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555.724 |
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那像在南部外面的很多的海灘都是余温余糖也就不能使用所以我们必须把这些图套叠起来最后我们台湾之盾这是对外在对内我们这个系盾就是我们要保护它最主要就是电网很多的关键基础设施那这些设施能够做好来支撑台湾之盾那这是要横向的跨部会的协商所以说光保护的不是基地 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
556.545 |
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582.135 |
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那這個部分可能要請這個部長現在提供一點我們建議部長您是不是提供一點指導剛剛謝謝委員的指教我想委員應該都很清楚就是說我們現在這個在整體防空的這個部分現在不但是有反彈也要反擊那還有現在有反無人機所以各個這個系統所要接戰的這個 |
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584.036 |
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606.25 |
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情況下我們要考慮到這個接戰的成本這個是首先考慮到第一個第二個的話就是國產的部分跟這個我們所美制的武器這個部分那國產武器的部分也要做一個整合那美制的部分也要做整合那同時進一步也要將美制跟國產的部分進一步做整合那這樣才能夠建立一個 |
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608.693 |
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635.019 |
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這個良好的指管的系統那同時這個指管的系統第三個還要考慮到它不能夠過於這個centralize也就是說它要必須decentralize那還是能夠發揮在我們遭受到聯合火力打擊之後我們運用所有能夠僅存的這一些聯合潛艇的這些系統從sensor然後一直到shooter這個部分還是能夠維持住然後並且能夠做好火力相關的協調分配那最後 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
635.559 |
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649.875 |
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就是有提到的交戰規則的部分我想這個是我們現在已經在進行的部分也就是說所謂的AI它都是一個輔助決策那最後的部分還是要由這個指揮官來下達最後的決心那也要負擔這個相關的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
653.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
678.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
補充說明我們現在的防空未來當然有有這個強攻飛彈攻勢攻三攻四那美國有攻二愛國者二愛國者三我特別要提醒就是愛國者三型飛彈因為它是技術管制我們已經這個飛彈已經來的16年2000年10年來買的這個10年一個塞口送回去一枚飛彈要花100多萬美金所以300 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
680.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
695.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
88枚飞站如果用20年的话我们每年的作为会是非常高的这个可能考虑在年度预算内啊要考虑进去在这次的专案报告里面已经提到了很多的受限维护成本但是这个数字可能还不够 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
696.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
717.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
因为这个军售的维保的钱到最后如果20年30年有的时候超过初期投资那后面我们去讲一下这个过程这上面是美国内部的流程最主要就是强调军售过程会有些哪些有时间上面有一个就是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
718.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
736.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
有美国授权同意了美国总统授权同意了DOS然后再交给这个DSA发架书出来这一次这个川普总统回去以后就是把第二批发架书的时间呢现在我想光不要保持密切联系因为目前还看不出来啊是什么时间他会提供 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
738.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
763.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
这个图是美国战争部就是安和局把去年全球的军售国家的总额全部公布出来了各位可以看到在全世界42个国家中华民国我们采购的额度是第一名高于以色列这个东西它是在国务院会在他把的 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
763.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
784.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
公开可以上网我们建议将来只要美国一公开我们部内就把这个资讯做个整理可能由我们部内发布比透过媒体公开比较好一点它的素质就像昨天部长讲的发价书就算签了美国政府代表跟厂商签约的时候还会有调整 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
785.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
806.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
但是有一点建议就是我们政府编预算不管八年几年对美金来讲我们是固定价款但是美国的是用成本计价法它保证它厂商的利润5% 8%所以它是cost plus因此在军售案执行的过程中这个价钱还会有涨幅有跌 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
806.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
831.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
這個讓大家了解但是也希望在部內同仁未來做說明的時候對我們這個從政或者在野的同仁啊能夠在這個領域上強加說明這個是公布今年的剛才是全世界42個國家2025年的軍售項目額度我們第一名以色列第二名這個是目前2026美國已經公布的了那 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
832.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
849.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
目前科威特是第一名那我们因为现在还没有通过还没有收到美国的发价书还没有排进去不过有一点可以宽心的就是有关这个海马斯这个全世界现在只有一个国家买所以可能不会跟我们产生生产量的冲突 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
852.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
874.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這張圖就是美國國務院他會公佈他公佈了就是用我們駐美的名義買了多少項目他會公佈所以這些東西呢我們就建議這是美國的官方網站不管是從國會網站國務院網站或是國防部安和局的網站他都會公開如果這個公開以後我們部內先做個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
875.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
890.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那麼也許並不是在做專案報告能夠跟我們各個委員辦公室做溝通說明我想可以減少很多後面對這個判斷上面有一些解讀的落差因為每一個人看的資料不同我們看到這邊的是美元 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
891.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
910.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
那国内看到的是换算台币这里面他已经讲得很清楚了他说你可以走军售也可以走商售但是他都有一个门槛值同样要接受美国内部的核可认证所以他这个直接商售跟军售是平行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
911.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
938.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
並不是這個商售叫切開我們過去看過一些少數案子的弊端是因為小額的那不在他的管制範圍內這個是不是部長您做個說明我想委員指教的很好我想我們國防部會來考慮就是說按照這個對台他們所國務院所公布的但這個部因為他的項目會有點繁雜因為很多是屬於作為的作為好 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
946.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
946.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
好謝謝 |