| IVOD_ID |
16942 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16942 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-26-4 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
4 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
26 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
社會福利及衛生環境委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-15T08:32:46+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-15T14:50:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
06:17:14 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/bfaf9b39ac01a68581c79e81327dd8bc76f414ddf3fe883bb5dbf79f23f633bb21c8b05b4a1debd95ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：壹、邀請勞動部、交通部、衛生福利部就「長榮空勤人員因病延誤就醫，應立即檢討航空業職場健康保障飛行安全」進行專題報告，並備質詢。
貳、審查一、行政院函請審議「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。二、委員廖先翔等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條條文修正草案」案。三、委員牛煦庭等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十九條條文修正草案」案。四、委員李昆澤等26人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。五、委員魯明哲等16人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十條條文修正草案」案。六、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。七、委員林淑芬等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四十三條條文修正草案」案。八、委員楊曜等22人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。九、委員李昆澤等27人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十、委員黃秀芳等21人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十一、委員翁曉玲等23人擬具「職業安全衛生法第三十五條、第三十九條及第四十九條條文修正草案」案。十二、委員范雲等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十三、委員劉建國等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十四、委員吳琪銘等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法第六條條文修正草案」案。十五、委員沈發惠等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十七、委員王育敏等25人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十八、委員郭國文等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。十九、委員王鴻薇等19人擬具「職業安全衛生法第四條條文修正草案」案。二十、委員郭昱晴等17人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。二十一、委員羅廷瑋等18人擬具「職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案」案。
【第二十一案，如經復議則不予審查】
【綜合詢答】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:32:46 - 14:50:00 |
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報告委員會初期委員12人已足法定人數請主席宣布開會好 謝謝現在開會請議事人員宣讀上次會議議事錄 |
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立法院第十一屆第四會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第三次全體委員會議議事錄時間114年10月13日星期一9時至13時32分地點群賢樓801會議室出席委員程委員招資等14人列席委員中委員嘉賓等12人請假委員圖委員全集列席官員衛生福利部部長石崇良等相關人員 |
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1674.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
主席劉兆吉委員建國報告事項宣讀上次會議議事錄決定確定邀請衛生福利部部長及行政院食品安全辦公室就重大食安事件處理之檢討與食安饑餓人力不足問題進行專題報告並被質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1677.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1703.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
本次會議由衛生福利部部長及行政院食品安全辦公室主任許甫報告後委員陳昭芝等二十人提出質詢均經衛生福利部部長及行政院食品安全辦公室主任及各相關主管等及其答覆決定一報告及詢答完畢二委員質詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於二周內書面答覆委員令要求期限者從期鎖定通過臨時提案一項宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1704.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1709.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
好 謝謝 那請問委員會 上次議事錄有無錯誤或遺漏之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1710.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1735.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
好 沒有 謝謝 那議事錄確定那本會議議程為第一 邀請勞動部 交通部 維護部就長榮空勤人員因病延誤就醫應立起檢討航空業職長健康保障飛行安全進行專題報告並備諮詢第二 審查行政會函請審議委員分別凝聚職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案 案 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1737.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1763.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
以上專題報告及討論事項採綜合詢答那現在介紹在場委員及列席官員那第一位是陳昭是陳委員第二位是王純旭王委員那謝謝那第三位是王洪威王委員那出席官員是勞動部部長洪森翰勞動力發展署署長黃玲玉 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1766.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1793.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
還有職業安全衛生署署長林益堂勞動職業安全衛生研究所所長王厚誠勞動關係司司長王厚惟勞動法務司司長傅費芝還有勞動條件及就業平等司司長黃齊亞公務人員保障暨培訓委員會保障處副處長蔡憲維 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1797.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1816.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
行政院公共工程委員會工程管理處檢任計政江鵬還有行政院人事行政總處綜合規劃處總務委員許孟志內政部國土管理署都市基礎工程署副署長趙啟宏謝謝還有消防署檢任視察溫衛周 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1820.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1847.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
國防部資源規劃師科技企劃處副處長薛勝吉還有教育部資訊及科技教育師副市長邱仁傑國民及學前教育署專門委員林如龍經濟部產業發展署副處長周宇新水利署檢任政工程師蕭明芳還有產業園區管理局副處長蘇鴻毅 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1851.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1877.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
國營事業管理師 科長王啟明交通部行政司司長韓正華民防局局長何淑萍綜合規劃司副司長陳柏旭衛生福利部國民健康署署長沈靜芬心理健康司專門委員洪家基醫事司專門委員郭威中 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1878.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1902.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
數位發展部數位產業署檢定社長黃國元華為部參事汪蘭君謝謝那我們現在請這個提案委員說明提案料子每位委員兩分鐘有在場的我就先請上台來做這個提案說明那第一位請陳昭志委員代表台灣民眾黨團來做說明沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1905.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1914.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
好 不用 謝謝那請提案委員王國威委員來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1925.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1948.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
好謝謝主席還有各位委員這次有關職安法的修正我想我們立法院各個委員提出來的版本很多都是聚焦在有關於這個職場的霸凌事件那這也是因為呢在之前我們勞動部那個發生的非常嚴重的霸凌事件震驚社會那麼這也 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1950.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1965.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
凸顯另外一個問題也就是我們現行在公務機關的職場霸凌還有他們的職安的部分事實上他們的保障是有限度的那麼在我們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1966.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1987.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
现在在公务人员保障法里面最近才做修正对于比如说职场霸凌 酒驾 毒驾或者性骚等等最重可以除以计两大国这也是因为我们在付出相当大的一个代价之下才做的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1988.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2006.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
而最近進來很多公務部門的基層團體也希望在有關於職安的部分不要一國兩制能夠讓我們的公務人員也可以受到職安法的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2007.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2027.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
因為不管是勞檢 植栽的預防 還有相關資料的揭露那麼目前我們公務人員的相關的專業人力的配置或調查真的並不及我們現在治安法整個的架構來的一個強化跟完整 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2027.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2050.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
那所以我們在這次的修法裡面我們希望能夠把我們廣大基層公務人員的心聲能夠納入希望在整個的職安保障裡面我們不要再繼續的一國兩制可以使得我們更多的公務人員他們也能夠受到職安法相關的架構的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2051.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2073.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
所以這一次我提出來的修正職安法的修正最主要的精髓就是能夠讓我們公務人員職場友善跟良好的風氣避免再因包含像之前的職場霸凌事件等等的相關這些職業安全的漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2074.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2087.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
讓我們的公務人員變得他的保障是不足所以也希望在這次的修法裡面能夠得到各位委員還有我們行政部門的支持以上 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員的提案說明接下來請羅庭委員來做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2102.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2130.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
好 謝謝昭偉今天排審我想要講說今天這一個題目呢是非常令我們感到非常的遺憾我想在這樣的一個情況之下呢感謝昭偉有這樣子的一個智慧來排審這樣子的一個最重要的一個法案之一職業安全衛生法制施行以來已多年未加以修正隨著社會的變遷我們可以看到產業的型態的多元工作型態的轉變現行的法制 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2131.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2160.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
部分的規範已經不足以因應新興的這個勞動風險跟職場的一個議題我們近年來看到了頻傳的多場職場霸凌這樣的事件反映到現行法律體制就是缺乏明確的防治規範通報的一個處理機制致死受害的勞工得不到及時的一個保護顯示制度面需要加強需要強化 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2161.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2190.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
另一方面我們可以看到在營造業等高風險的產業重大的職業災害發生的數量未能有效的減少現行的法制就相關的事故防治成效的有限所以現行的法令對於工作場所機具設備出租出借行為缺乏明確的危害告知的義務制規定導致安全責任難以追溯 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2190.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2207.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
所以再加上刑事刑法行政法额度的偏低导致整个难以发挥嚇阻的效果所以本次修法的四大重点职场霸凌的防治专章明定职场霸凌的定义 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2207.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2236.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
还有申诉以及保护的程序确立雇主防治的责任劳工的救济途径第二增订工作场所的设备出租借为的行为能够危害的告知义务提高重大的违法行为的形式还有刑罚来嚇阻罚金的额度还有上限的调整以及强化执法增加威吓效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2237.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2261.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
最後我要說的過去因為外送平台以及外送員僱傭關係他的整個關係未明定此事新增51-1條就是要保護外送員未來如果外送平台沒有提供預防以及措施保護外送員治安法可以直接對外送平台來開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2262.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2288.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我們期望這一次的修法能夠完善職業安全衛生的法制健全職場安全以及人權的一個保障機制落實尊嚴勞動的工作環境以上 謝謝好 謝謝那等一下如果提案委員到的時候我們再 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2289.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2297.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
有空間再補了 沒有就沒辦法了你有提案說明嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2304.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2320.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
這邊我有提案,提案說明就補充一點點近年來可以看到殖滋業災害的頻轉尤其在營造業,殖滋業比例始終高居不下所以不論是鷹架倒塌、工人墜落、電擊或被壓傷持續在發生中 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2321.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2346.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
這本席也多次在委會有提起這個指示希望能改善這個職場環境降低這個相關的風險所以我們看到目前職安法是著重在這個事後處理對工程規劃設計階段的風險評估現場安全管理的落實以及事業單位及承攬人員之間的責任分工對事前的預防還是明顯的不足除了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2349.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2376.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
職災去年另外一個社會關注焦點就是也是在這個職場霸凌連主管勞工事務的勞動部也都出現相關這樣的事件那在一般的職場中就會有更多的被害人其實說也不敢去申訴或這個申訴無門所以希望透過這次修法第一個可以全面強化職業安全衛生管理制度在工程試劑階段就要進行風險評估確保安全衛生費用的確實編列 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2377.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2382.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
那同時也要明確的各層級承攬人員的安全責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2383.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2407.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
並要求出租或出借工作場所機具設備者必須主動告知危害也針對特定的機械操作人員與自營作業者明定防災的責任那第二就剛剛所提到的職場霸凌防治的制度我們是參考這個性別平等工作法的架構明定何謂職場霸凌強化內部外部的申訴調查處理流程 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2409.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2434.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
並加強這個申訴保護人讓受害者真的能夠安心的受到求助那最後為了讓制度更加有這個嚇阻力也提高了刑事法的刑法及罰金行政罰款上的上限不再讓業者覺得違法只是繳一筆錢就沒有事我們希望透過這個職業安全衛生法是希望台灣從事後補救轉為市警衛預防 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2435.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2459.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
然後同時兼顧到安全與人權讓每一位勞工都可以安全有尊嚴的在環境中工作所以也請各位委員可以來做這個支持那另外這個傷害的部分可能到時候再請這個勞動部在51條裡面再來做說明好現在我們來請黃部長就本日會議議程專題報告及法案審查並安報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2473.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2475.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
主席各位大家好那今天這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2477.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2500.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
大院召開的這個衛航委員會那第4次的全體會議那我們今天主要的任務是來審查行政院以及各黨團還有委員所提出的職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案等21個提案在這裡我先針對行政院所提出來的草案內容和各委員提案的重點來提出一些報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2501.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2519.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
也希望各位委員不吝指教那這次修法的背景那主要是鑑於近年來國內發生多起的重大的這個公安事件那這些災害發生的原因往往是因為工程設計的階段缺乏風險評估的機制世界單位沒有落實這些安全衛生管理再加上現行罰則過低 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2521.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2545.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
然後不具嚇阻的作用那同時那也因為近期國內發生數起受社會非常關注的職場霸凌的事件引發社會對職場霸凌防制不足的關注所以各界也希望能夠透過明確的界定職場霸凌或參考新公法等架構來強化申訴調查管理等 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2546.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2563.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
救濟機制那也包括強化對於申訴人的保護所以這一次本部拟據23條的職業安全衛生法部分條文的修正草案目的就是為了要督促雇主善盡職安委的管理責任並強化職場霸凌的防治 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2564.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2589.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
以下是我們修正的重點那第一個是要強化營造工程的源頭防災所以這次徵定的要求事業單位將一定規模以上的營造工程來交付給規劃者設計者還有施工者應該要求他們在事前根據這個工程的特性來做分析潛在危害採取預防的作為並編列安全衛生的費用那這個做法其實也是很多國際上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2590.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2610.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
相對比較有效的防治的做法那第二個那來加強承攬管理那首先我們擴大的定罪者是共同作為的承攬的認定其次增訂工程業主將工程交付給兩個以上的施工者施工的時候應該指定其中一位施工者來擔負整體工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2611.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2620.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
安全衛生統合管理的責任來去克服這個層層轉包的狀況那第三個是完善職場霸凌的防治那這裡面包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2621.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2642.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
明確訂定職場辦理的定義要求僱主應要依事業單位規模訂定申訴管道和規範並公開揭示相關的防治措施強化內部的申訴調查處理以及提供申訴人協助與保護措施建立外部申訴機制如果被申訴人是最高負責人的話勞工可以向地方的主管機關提起申訴調查及處理的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2644.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2666.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
那再是提高處罰的額度那為了遏止不法的效果這次我們也適度的拉高了刑事罰跟的刑期跟罰金以及行政法環的額度來符合社會對於防治跟遏止的期待那第5個我們也增訂了違法雇主的資訊公佈的事項那增列公佈違法者的處分期日 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2667.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2674.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
然后违反条文和罚还的金额如果发生直接灾害则增加公布发生日期发生地还有离灾人数 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2675.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2700.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
那針對這個各黨團委員的提案的方向那其實跟行政院的版本大致上相同那至於對各版本的一些意見的部分那請參照那我們的這個書面的報告那這是針對這個責任法修正的部分那第二個也是這週大家其實非常非常關心關於這個常空勤人員因病延誤就醫應立即檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2702.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2707.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
航空業職場健康保障飛行安全的專案的報告那我以下也來做這部分的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2708.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2737.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那首先我們先對要對於長榮航空的公司一位年輕的空服員那在知情後不幸的病逝那我們也必須在此表達最誠摯的哀悼那這起不幸的事件我想絕對也是我們必須深切檢討的一個警訊那本部在第一時間也就是10月13號的上午那就跟就責成治安署還有他桃園市的勞動檢查處那共同到長榮航空公司來施行勞動檢查 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2738.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2739.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
那初步的调查 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2741.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2769.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那這位組員在9月24號從米蘭返台的航班上面就已經反應身體不適那抵台後雖然自行就醫但很遺憾還是在10月10號的晚間離世那這部分除了啟動勞動檢查那本部其實已經請台灣市政府的同仁主動關懷家屬那本部也和家屬有聯繫那並協助家屬後續申請勞保死亡給付以及提供必要的社會輔助的資源 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2770.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2794.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那我们会穷尽最大的努力接下来也会在约访相关的主人和关系人那这部分我们不会只听公司的这个一方的说法那我们会希望能够还原相关的真相那只要有查明相关的疏失当然一定会依法来裁罚来杜绝憾事的在发生 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2795.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2809.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
那我們也要向主席還有各位委員報告那這個個案那凸顯了航空空勤組員這個相當特殊的職場幾個長期以來所面對到健康和勞動權益的問題那第一個在法規面上 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2810.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2836.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
控育組員雖然適用於勞基法但是也因為工作特性適用84條之一的責任工時制但是這絕對不代表雇主可以忽視勞工的健康和福祉那勞工依法請病假 雇主就應該要准假那此外責安法也明確的規定雇主對於輪班夜間長時間長時間的工作的勞工必須採取必要的安全衛生措施這些都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2837.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2850.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
法律的底線那其實不應該有妥協的空間那第二個在監督面上面本部也深知航空業的特殊性因此每年都會規劃做專案的勞檢從110年到現在我們針對航空運輸業總共實施238場勞動檢查其中違法率高達21% |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2857.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2880.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
那總裁罰的金額其實到了725萬而長榮航空公司一家就佔了352萬元那最常見的違規事項就是超時工作然後未給付加班費以及沒有給予足夠的休息時間那這些數字看起來冰冷但其實也反映出航空業的管理文化的確是存在著問題那面對這樣結構的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2882.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2909.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我想勞動部不會迴避我們的責任那我們會來採取幾個以下具體的措施來強化精進跟強化空行人員的職場健康保障第一個我們會擴大檢查也會加重處罰那我們會立即擴大航空業的專案勞檢那對於超時工作的違法情勢最高是可以加重處罰到150萬而且我們也會將身心健康保護 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2910.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2935.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
來納入檢查的重點那這部分我們當然也會需要民航局一起來配合那第二個我們會檢討健檢的項目和頻率和國際接軌那我們會盡速收集國際的做法全面檢討現行空行人員與健康檢查的項目和頻率來強化健康保護的標準那第三點我們會要求積極改善建立友善的職場我們會強力的來要求航空公司 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2938.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2958.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
必須要建立友善的請假的制度並且拿出誠信與工會協商那改善排班跟考勤存在的一些不合理的管理的措施那第四個我們會跨部會合作共同研議那本部會主動邀請交通部包括航空公司也包括工會團體和地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2959.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2974.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
來召開檢考會議從制度的根本來研議改善的方案那最後本人還是要再次強調遵循勞動法令是企業最基本的社會責任那尤其是航空業關係到廣大公眾的安全勞工的身心健康 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2975.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2992.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
其實是不應該有空間妥協的那本部也和交通部地方政府會站在一起嚴格監督強力執法那為第一線辛苦的空勤人員希望能夠促成一個更安全健康的勞動的環境那以上報告那請各位委員不吝指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2997.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3005.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
好 謝謝部長那要催省前我們先還有一位提案委員來做說明請翁祥林委員來做提案說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3013.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3035.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
主席還有在座的各位委員以及各位政府官員大家好那麼我今天要向大家說明為什麼我們要修改職業安全法裡面的第35條39條和49條簡單的來說呢本人提案這次的修法主要有三個目的第一個呢就是要讓公安政策在制定的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3035.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3059.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
能够听取劳工的意见然后更大力的保护那些愿意挺身而出申诉的人以及把所有公安意外和处罚的资讯都应该要公开透明那么近年来我们知道直灾发生的数字还是偏高劳工的生命安全受到严重的威胁所以我们必须要从制度面上面下手更积极的去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3060.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3087.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
這個預防職災並且展現政府對公安意外的重視這次修法有三個重點還要請大家支持第一個就是我們希望能夠讓勞工在政策制定上未來有更多的參與表達意見的機會那麼這次的修法內容本席要求中央主管機關一定要定期的召開職安諮詢會議而不是可以開會那第二個呢當然最重要的改變就是參加會議的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3090.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3116.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
学者专家和职灾劳工团体代表人数是不能够少于所有成员的一半那么如此就可以确保在讨论国家治安政策的时候能够充分听到第一线劳工专家和受害者的声音让政策更贴近现实更有用那第二点呢就是我本席这次提出第39条的修正那么这最重要的修法内容就是工作者发现公司有违法疑似离 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3118.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3139.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
罹患职业病或者是身心受害的时候可以向雇主以及主管机关申诉最重要的目的就是要求雇主未来不能够只对于申诉人做解雇调解以及不利的处分现在我们更要扩大保障未来雇主不得对于申诉或协助他人申诉的工作者 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3139.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3165.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
進行解雇調節減薪損害權益或者是其他不利的處分措施那麼這個修法之後呢主管機關未來在調查的時候甚至還可以再請專業人士或民間團體來幫忙讓調查更為專業更有效率那麼第三個就是本期所提出的第49條的修正最重要的修法內容就是對於發生重大職災還有違反特定法規以及發生職業 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3167.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3185.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
职灾职业病的公司应该要公布相关的资讯我们必须要把现行得公布事业单位和负责人姓名修改为应该要公布相关的讯息当然资讯公开是国际的趋势劳动部已经行之有年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3186.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3211.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
那麼修法呢主要是為了督促不好的公司那僱主應該要改善那麼而且勞工在求職或者是在就職的時候呢也可以隨時查詢的到公司的違規記錄以保障他們選擇的權益總言之這次的修法就是為了要保障勞工的生命安全是為了讓我們的職場環境更安全更公平所以在此也懇請各位委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3212.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3218.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
能夠支持這項修正案那麼讓台灣的治安環境可以更進步更健全謝謝大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3222.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3249.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
好 謝謝那有關本次會議各項書面資料均列入紀錄刊登公報現在開始詢答作為下宣告第一本會委員詢答時間6加2分鐘列席委員4加1分鐘那10點半截止發言登記委員如果有書面諮詢請於散會前提出預期不受理暫定10點30分休息休息10分鐘那本日不處理臨時提案現在請登記第一位委員陳昭之委員來做發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3255.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3257.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
謝謝主席 有請洪部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3265.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3285.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
部長早部長台電大林電廠的煤炭工程所使用的防爆管配件去年8月職安署他們去抽驗的時候發現是有不合格的一個狀況那今天你看到簡報上簡報上這張截圖是職安署昨天的開會議程裡面提到蒙譽公司跟身份公司向職安署陳情 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3287.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3306.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
那偏偏這兩家都是上次他們抽驗結果不合格的廠商那他不合格的點在哪裡呢因為這個廠商對外標榜他們是用這個球末鑄鐵那這個是個好的材質但檢驗結果卻是嚴重的這個石墨球化率不足等一下我有數字給部長看 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3307.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3321.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
那結果呢 職產署從去年到現在為了幫這廠商解套大概至少開了三次會議以上一直在著想有沒有可以解套的這個室友簡直是說非常賣力的在幫忙 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3322.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3340.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
那這兩家廠商現在問題是他不但幾乎包辦了整個電台電跟中油的整個防爆管配件的那個採購那而且喔而且台電中油自己送的這個檢驗的部分也是不合格的那個籌劃率很低等一下我秀給這個部長看 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3342.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3360.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
那假設要開發因為你全部給他包了假設要開發就要汰換很多的這個設備可能很廣所以是龐大的工程但我覺得這不是個別廠商問題這已經涉及國營事業採購的有沒有弊端的問題所以我必須強調不合格的防爆配 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3361.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3382.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
這個防爆配產品怎麼可能還仍然放置在台電中有這個關鍵基礎這個設施的場地內那我非常遺憾 指南署為了開脫嘛 為了幫他們解套那連續一直開會 昨天也是 一直召開會議現在好啦 連經濟部的這個標檢局也加入來護短 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3385.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3396.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
做出非常離譜的這個含釋那請問勞動部你確定要這樣繼續這個護短這個廠商護短那個台電跟中油使用使用不合格的產品嗎 部長請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3397.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3418.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
跟陳委員說明因為陳委員一直很關心這個案子第一個我先表達態度第一個是我想勞動部沒有任何理由對任何一方的廠商來護短我只要你的態度不護短廠商也不護短台電工中油使用不合格的產品我們在委員很因為我知道委員很認真的在關心這個案子但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3419.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3433.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們絕對沒有 我們沒有任何理由在這一個專業的問題上面 而且部長我今天跟你談的是防暴 防暴管配件防暴欸 防暴這個對涉及這個安全職業的安全是多麼重要這張截圖請部長看 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3435.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3463.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
是會議室結束上面寫的原理依前開標檢局函式的建議參考國際產品強度為主的認定方式辦理這句話就是鐵證喔要幫廠商開脫喔護航開脫喔你們把勞工安全放哪裡去了明知道這個檢查之前的抽驗不合格現在想辦法幫他護過讓他能夠護過關然後要做什麼國外的以國外參考國外什麼是國外有什麼標準標準在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3465.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3485.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這個大家都加入來護航所以我就奇怪了這兩家廠商蒙蔚跟雙方到底背景有多硬啊可以讓你們這樣努力幫他這個找理由護航開拓還是因為要牽涉台電中油非常龐大的採購利益這幾家廠商我們完全不認識你不認識那只是你不認識因為你也去上門 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3487.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3505.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
事實上我告訴你他cover了很多的採購案我們完全不認識所以沒有任何依照什麼背景去做判斷就我知道這段文字這段文字是表演局給我們的文字他陳情你就幫他開會然後一直開會至少開了三次會那就不合格啊委員你也希望我們幫忙開會啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3507.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3532.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
不是 就是你的申訴不合格就是不合格 要換成合格的開會不是為了要幫誰開脫開會是我們希望能夠專業釐清這件事情為什麼我會說這個自然署跟標檢局還有跟台電中油一起來幫他們護航跟廠商我們來看CNS 看標準嘛CNS2869怎麼寫 機械性的性質的試驗還有這個石墨求化率的判定証一定要用試棒 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3535.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3555.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
進行測試但職安署說廠商過去都沒有保留釋放喔都沒有保留喔所以說可以依照這個標準去建議我們參考國際以產品強度為主這個很空泛什麼叫強度你連釋放都沒有你要測什麼強度啊所以這個這個太離譜了這兩個部門一起來幫這家廠商護航來我看一下數字部長你看這個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3559.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3581.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
你看這個數字 指南署自己去抽驗去年8月6號你看不合格求化率要80以上才符合所謂的這個求墨註帖你看這個數字你看這個數字我告訴你那個台電台電跟中油自己拿出去送驗的只有十幾二十幾這個還是指南署去抽驗的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3585.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3604.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
怎麼辦呢跟我說我還是要強調我們不能夠去說開會讓我說明好不好我先跟你講我們這些資料檢舉資料我都已經送到治安署請問治安署是把它丟掉了還是放在抽屜裡躺著我們有給喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3606.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3619.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我要再次說明第一個這件事情我其實一直是請我們職安署就是以專業來做解決問題的最根本的問題那第二個我認為不能夠去說只要是開會就是要為哪一方開脫上面就寫陳情啊因為這兩家廠商陳情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3629.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3648.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
他先有這個不合格的結果在那裡然後他說要澄清所以你們就為這個一起開會我獨立是這樣的但是我的意思說就是有澄清不代表開會就是要為誰開脫任何一方有相關的澄清我們其實都會用相關的會議或者是相關的言商來去處理不能夠說 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3650.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3672.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
只要是有人來澄清那你開會處理就是開脫兩家廠商整個包山包海了啦那已經很久了不合格的事情大家也都知道資料也都有啦但是就這樣一直下去嘛我還是一個最重要的原則就是用專業來評判這件事情該怎麼處理專業就是數字啊專業就是檢驗啊而且有標準像CNS的標準啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3675.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3698.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
指南索今天我要跟部長對話 謝謝你我就跟部長對話 我要你的態度我的態度就是我們就是用專業處理我就告訴你不專業告訴你不合格然後不會有任何因為廠商的各種背景就一直在幫他開脫 開會啊不合格就回家換就好啦委員不能夠說開會就是開脫其他國際的什麼方法什麼跟什麼啊 是空飯欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3700.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3714.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
部長回到今天你剛剛報告的這個主題剛剛你也稍微講在整個這個長榮航空的空服員過勞死那你還在釐清我知道剛剛聽到你報告就大概還在釐清中但是根據工會的聲明他們稍後會在這邊開這個記者會 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3717.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3734.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
航空表面強調不讓空服員報病上班卻是嚴格的限定請假方法用專法律漏洞的方式讓空服員害怕因為他可能請假後來就被報復制的值班那種排班方式就會被報復影響生活所以只能夠隱忍病痛然後繼續上班造成這個悲劇 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3735.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3750.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我覺得長榮航空遊走法律邊緣這種做法是佔很大因素那因為部長網路上有爆料說這個空服員因為他有講我身體不舒服但是依舊被要求送這個飲料他苦撐到返台然後提出要叫救護車要被冷嘲熱封 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3751.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3775.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
然後身體胃寒披著這個毛毯然後又說 又質疑需要披著我們的毛毯下去嗎之類的我覺得很像職場霸凌但是現在勞檢處調查範圍是限於同機組員我知道你有報告說不限於同機組員你想同機組員誰敢直接講那麼白啊而且是用講的說我們的老闆我的上司 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3776.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3788.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
有不對的地方但是我要請問一個重點請問勞動部你會去調查過世空服員跟這個座艙長之間的對話嗎他們有team plus可以對話嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3789.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3815.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
你有没有调查跟委员说明这些相关的因为这个当然也是会涉及到团事劳检处我们会做相关只要是相关的组员相关的组员利害相关方只要是当事的当场的组员这个当事人跟这个座舱长的对话吗你不回答我们当然不会排除去查任何跟这件事情有关的资料当然啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3816.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3842.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
學學業辦在辦科幣 北檢的精神來 這個是一間對話就是要看啊直接他是本人的對話啊博敦你看這個數字剛才你說最最高罰百萬哇 百萬上勞機啊 我告訴你長榮航空是這個慣老闆他是違反這個公法公會法跟勞基法這個紀錄你看這個數字還只是今年的哦今年的數字他就罰了280萬你剛剛說有更新一下再多一點然後我想問你一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3844.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3852.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
請問部長長榮航空上個月的這個營業額是多少營收是多少錢156.17億156.17億你罰280萬不痛不癢嘛那個156.1717就是1700萬1700萬的那個小數點的六分之一才是280萬保定100萬又如何呢這個就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3873.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3887.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
他就是花錢了事嘛你的財閥跟他的營收差這麼多想想看你就是不斷的發而且他是累犯他不斷的發他不斷的重複反正發錢有什麼一百一個月就156億啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3891.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3910.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
主席不讓我講完了啦反正我有認真準備啦我一大早每天都7點以前都到這裡啦反正長榮法規就我講幾句話就好變相利用公司制度美其名他是說不請假人都有考得到有會加分可是事實上大家都因此為了加分都不請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3910.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3935.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
那這樣需要請假的人就變成被扣分就是他這種制度就是說一個變相的一個一個濫用還有他的班別也有很多這個知情者也有傳給我們看這個當選他們一些班別的那個比起那個護理師的那個花花班不遑多讓我說真相在什麼 真相博敦你調查要真相有真相才能檢討有檢討你才知道以後怎麼改進好嗎我今天強調是這個當然 大名店長 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3936.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3949.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
長榮航空 黑龍在你的肩膀上 拜託你好 謝謝委員謝謝主席好 謝謝陳委員我有多上分多中喔好 再來請陳清威委員來做詢問謝謝主席 我也請洪部長來 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3962.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3989.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
部長好 承接剛剛陳昭之委員所問的問題我們也蒐集了非常多方的意見現在看起來這個航空業環繞的行業就是不只是長榮航空其實有非常多他們相關的產業都出來講航空業環繞的這個行業包括地勤包括免稅店然後其他的航空等等他們都說會有這樣子報復性的做法假使你有 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3990.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4018.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
就是請假或者是你有得罪的主管等等會用排班方式來做包覆所以在這邊我也想請您您剛說你會加強勞檢是不是可以航空業環繞的這些產業您都可以去加強或是去了解他們是不是有這樣子的文化因為你到很多論壇上去看你會發現各種地勤免稅店的人都出來開始講他們也發生過這樣子的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4019.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4038.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
當然我想相關的問題其實這幾天大家也看到可能不是只是單一的一家公司那當然長榮航空在過去的這個勞資的溝通的文化上面一直以來長榮公司都是比較強硬的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4039.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4063.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那我们也认为这是有其实很大的应该改变的空间但是其他航空也希望您可以关怀他们当然那我想就可能里面也有包括是整个行业的问题好那之后我们也会详细的发文问您针对这个航空业环绕的产业您有实际上做哪些事然后有收回哪些资讯好吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4064.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4084.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
好那剛剛陳杰剛的話題所以這個你們所預計去審查的職場霸凌防制專章就顯得非常的重要因為幾乎每一位有在職場上待過的人都對這個專章有很高很高的期待啦那我去查了一些沒有專章之前的一些判決 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4085.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4099.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
比如說台北地方法院他曾經有個判決他就指出說他寫到職場霸凌目前尚無明確的法律要件跟定義所以當時他的判決其實他也是靠他自己的方式來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4101.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4130.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
那連法院都必須要自己摸索去拼湊這就是我們殘酷的現實困境包括剛剛陳肇智委員所反映的這些事那我們期待這個專章可以帶來三樣東西第一個就是很清楚的定義第二個是遇到霸凌時有效的因應的程序還有一個最重要就是實際上有牙齒可以發揮威力的是保護受害者的賠償規範大家都很期待但是你知道這次您送到立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4131.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4134.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
備受我們全國勞工關注的霸凌專章總共是幾條嗎加起來三條三條啊 大家覺得三條那你洋洋灑灑的發新聞稿說這次修法是職安法有史以來最大幅度的調整結果是用三條來打發 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4152.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4174.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
我看了一下三條有什麼範圍第一條你告訴我們什麼是霸凌然後一定規模的事業單位可以去訂定防治措施第二條你說老闆知道了以後要採取立即而且有效的措施還要上網登錄第三條是說員工如果不服內部的處理可以跟地方政府申訴然後就沒了就沒了 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4175.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4200.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
跟委員報告其實這一次我們的修法有兩個部分第一個部分也跟其實立法院的委員們一直很關心的職場的減災就是包括營造業或者很多這個公安的問題的減災有關係這部分是有一個這個部分那第二個是跟職場霸凌有關那當然這些職場霸凌我們是用一個專章的方式可是這個專章的方式並不代表這個調次 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4202.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4221.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
看起來是三條就代表他是沒有用並不是這樣其實每一個調次他要發揮的作用跟他其實某個部分也是對準我等一下給你一些具體的建議還有比較但我們從很多的社會事件看到職場他在很多不幸親生的事件這個職場霸凌他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4224.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4241.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
他對於受害者的這個嚴重的身心傷害不亞於職場性騷擾所以我們就來跟性攻法來比較一下性攻法他有明確的雇主的責任有申訴的機制有調查的程序還有真正可以去嚇阻 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4241.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4269.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
雇主他可不可以好好的管理這個職場包括損害賠償還有懲罰性賠償的條款來讓你看看你這個法是有多陽春我們來看這個是性供法第27條他有明確的規範雇主對於性騷擾事件的連帶賠償還有懲罰性的賠償讓我們可以不用再去民法大海撈針因為如果就你現在提出來的專章 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4271.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4285.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
他假使要申請賠償他就要請律師他已經身心受害了然後再到民法裡面去大海撈針那性供法也講得很清楚他說對於故意造成的傷害故意造成比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4286.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4305.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
性別歧視 獎金不同 差別待遇可以判決損害到1到3倍的懲罰性賠償金如果加害者是雇主本人 甚至可以到3到5倍加害者是雇主本人 這個也不罕見不管是在霸凌 或者是在性騷擾防治上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4306.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4329.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
那真正用心去預防 它才會痛它才會想要去好好的管理這個職場那這一方面你覺得你有沒有考慮可以把這方面把它納入跟委員說明其實我們在這個職場辦在專章在修的時候其實的確因為外界一定都會很大的參照性工法 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4331.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4345.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
那我們其實也來參考國際上面相關跟職場霸凌的法律確實有一個狀況我還是必須要想要跟大院報告其實國際上面對職場霸凌的相關的法規規範的密度其實並不高 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4346.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4371.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
那可是我們的性供法的法規在2023年當時修的時候它的這個規範的密度是很高所以我們一直在希望能夠去拿捏這中間的平衡因為的確我們其實也跟蠻多國際上面的專家學者來做討論他們對於職場霸凌的這個樣態好幾個國家的樣態跟規範的密度其實我們都甚至還開了國際的研討會 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4373.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4395.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
他們的規範密度真的不高所以我們在這裡面是求取所以後來我們基本上會把一些如果性供罰裡面有但是在其他的法規裡面也有的部分我們就不一定把它放到職場霸凌裡面我知道你會這樣子說我也幫你找好了我知道你會這樣子回答其實我們現在就是因為有一個很重大的新聞事件所以我們要去正視這個職場霸凌的問題也讓我們有機會去修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4398.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4416.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
那你要修你就把它修好我又幫你找到世界上走在很前面的國家就是這個加拿大的勞動標準法所以我也想請你去參考這部加拿大的勞動標準法他就採取了我們剛講的整合模式啊他有完整的程序規範還有直接的賠償請求權這個就是我幫你把它畫出來他的第123.15條 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4423.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4448.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
他認定霸凌成立之後就可以直接命令雇主支付受害員工的精神賠償甚至還有能夠嚇阻不良雇主的懲罰性賠償這個才是真正有威嚇力的武器那我是希望不要再用回歸民法這樣子不負責任的話術來規避責任既然你現在要修就把它修好 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4449.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4463.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
跟文說明第一個我覺得有些法規在其他法規裡面我想這不是不負責任但是我認為我們沒有去排除在哪些規範上面只要這個法規有他能夠在職場霸凌的作用 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4465.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4489.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我們其實當然是可以開放的來討論的啊當然啊因為你剛在講世界上沒有嘛所以我在告訴你說世界上還是有我在說在國際上面對於職場霸凌的規範性的密度其實坦白說我們現在的規範密度已經是蠻多國際專家都認為我們現在規範密度是蠻高的可是當然跟性供法的條文的規範密度比起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4490.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4506.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
性供法當然是一個更多的條文的這個法規當時的這個修法所以我的意思是說比方說確實這也會跟不同的國家比方有些國家他是非常非常著重在透過用法院的方式來去處理問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4507.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4519.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
有些國家非常著重用法院的方式有些國家他是很著重在企業的內部治理公司治理每個國家其實他有不太一樣的性質跟框架來處理這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4521.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4542.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
那剛剛委員說明的就是說我覺得有些法規法規的條文如果我們到時候在審查的時候那來看如果是確實在我們的法規上面沒有處理到我覺得我們是開放的態度所以我這邊還是在列出一些我覺得您可以參考的點因為職場霸凌它所發生的案件數是不亞於職場性騷擾 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4544.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4567.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
對所以我們應該也是要把它規範好比如說在這邊我舉兩個例子就是申訴的程序申訴的程序我來舉性供法性供法他右邊他在講說如果你的老闆不處理或是你的老闆本身就是加害者好那你就是往地方主管機關去做申訴但是比較你的霸凌專章你就少了一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4567.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4590.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
因為如果你的老闆不處理是沒有列在上面的所以這邊你要不要考慮其實你可以把它列在上面你這邊只有提到說假使你的老闆本身就是霸凌的加害者那你可以往地方主管機關申訴跟我的說明如果老闆不處理這是直接開罰的啊你可以寫上去啊不是 不是寫上去的問題只要老闆不處理這就是直接開罰的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4592.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4614.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
这不用什么申诉时效只要老板不处理就是直接开罚那你要怎么发现只要有人来申诉老板该处理而不处理不启动程序或者是启动的程序不完备这是直接开罚的这没有什么第二句话的你如果可以把它补强上去或是你把它列上说明现在在我们的版本里面就是这样子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4615.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4618.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
好 第二個我們來看一下右邊申訴的時效這個我也希望你可以稍微解釋一下為什麼你會這樣子訂右邊就是說如果我沒有詮釋不對等在這個性騷擾的案件如果我們沒有詮釋不對等我們可能只是同一個階級的 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4634.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4646.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
那我這個時效是五年我有權勢不退等他可能是我的主管那時效是七年但是左邊我們來比你的這個霸凌專章你是一刀切就是三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4650.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4676.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
跟委員報告這個委員現在提的是性供法裡面第一項的第二款它裡面有提到這個全市霸凌的部分那在我們目前子彈法設計的部分這個部分是在企業內部的一個有關於全市霸凌是企業內部的一個管理的機制那這個部分我們未來在附屬法規也會把這個部分剛剛委員提到的部分你會把它補充上去那你可以稍微解釋一下這訂三年的理由嗎這個原因為何 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4677.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4696.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
那你之後會不會在權勢不對等的狀態之下拉長他的時效跟委員報告 目前這個架構還有大概實現是參考性供法現在我們治安法的這個規定是參考性供法的規定看起來沒有啊 看起來差蠻多的 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4698.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4716.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
它是五年跟七年你現在訂的是三年我們的部分是針對我們最高負責人所以我們這邊是訂的是三年剛剛尾框的這個部分是不一樣的是雇主不服或不處理剛剛部長已經有提到了如果雇主未處理的話就直接是開閥了 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4717.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4733.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
如果可以的話我希望未來我們都可以在說明欄可以寫得更詳細或者是直接在條文寫得更詳細我剛才看委員在這部分是指部組不處理的部分可是這部分在現在的版本裡面我們是直接可以處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4734.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4757.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
不一定說要一個時效那如果是最高負責因為剛剛委員在問我們的版本裡面是最高負責的話最高部分的部分我們其實是參考性供法的那主席我問最後一個問題這個之前呢剛也有一些委員他在提案說明的時候講到說去年監管我們勞動部這麼多勞動環境的人地方卻是發生了霸凌致死這樣子的案件那當時 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4759 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4782.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
記者詢問你 你就說因為只有無姓的職員一名正式的人力所以他沒有辦法把業務分擔給承攬的人員導致於長期承受過高的工作壓力你說你會跟行政院的人事總處爭取原額啦齁那我去查了一下115年你的原額是減少欸你的是減少到130人本來113年被分數 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4785.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4807.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
的原額是132 114年是131結果115年你編的原額是減少到130這是第一個問題我想問為什麼你爭取原額好像跳票了第二個是何沛山部長之前就已經跟我們打詢的時候講過說勞動部是非典型人力的大宗應該要改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4808.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4824.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
113年臨時人力加承染人力共計2563人到了今年變成3601人整整增加了38人所以那個時候你接受訪問你想要做的兩件事情現在看起來是跳票的 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4825.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4850.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
跟委員說明北分署的事件當時發生的其實是在資訊室的人員其實資訊室的人員並本來就沒有算在北分署的員額裡面資訊室的人員其實一直以來都是由書本部來派駐所以其實也現在其實也是要因應這個我們幾個分署的資訊室的人其實我現在也是請我們部裡面的資訊處那重點的要下去來協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4852.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4874.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
也是考慮到我們分署在資訊人力上的不足可是資訊人力其實它的原額編制本來就不是在分署而是在我們是由署本部來派駐所以不是在這個數字上那你從署本部那邊的原額你有增加人嗎這是我們的疑問大概增加多少我跟委員說明其實在今年因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4875.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4902.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
院裡面也給我們發案署蠻多重要的任務的期待其實我們今年我們其實也去爭取了14個人那這個承攬人力呢承攬人力承攬不一定是這個第二個第二個 您說您說你要下降那個跟文說明我們的這個發案署的任務真的是很龐大 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4903.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4920.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
那這個人事的調整的工程其實我覺得它可能確實會需要一點過程所以我們一方面其實就像剛剛說我們一些重要的任務那我們是來跟行政院人事總署來爭取人力今年好不容易爭取到了十幾個十四人你剛講的十四個人力 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4921.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4940.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
那這14個人力接下來會幫我們做我覺得蠻多重要的工作但是就約用人員的部分可能不一定說我增加14個我就可以減少14個約用人員他可能會是一個人事結構的調整會是一個比較長時間的過程但是我們是努力的去跟行政院來爭取正式的人力這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4941.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4956.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
其實這幾個月我們真的花非常多心力來跟行政院爭取當然當然 因為這個是您曾經講過的事所以我們還是希望看到你一方面增加正式的員額一方面可以盡量的去減少你曾經覺得太多的承攬人員好 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝接下來請王玉敏委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4972.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4974.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
謝謝主席 我們有請部長請部長部長好部長 這個長榮航空的空姐她因為身體不適 然後沒有及早送醫最後導致她不幸過世大家其實是覺得這是一個讓人家非常悲傷的消息那這樣一個情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4997.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5021.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我覺得勞動部作為主管機關對於這一種違規大戶你們的這個勞檢還有你們的敏感度還有檢視我們現在的法令是不是還有所不足然後罰款過低我覺得這個通通都應該拿出來檢討我就讓各位看一下就是從去年到今年長榮航空這邊列出來的他們違反相關的法規 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5023.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5049.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
那有兩大類型就是一個是勞基法跟工會法另外一個是性平工作法那在這樣的一個情況底下你可以看到它的頻率是高的我們先來看這個性平工作法的部分性工法的部分它在去年你看到育兒減少工時遭不利處分的就有好幾件 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5050.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5074.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
到今年這樣的一個情況還有育嬰留子停薪遭到不利處分請生理假遭到不利處分家庭照顧假也遭到不利處分他的頻率真的是太高了這麼高的一個情況底下你可以看到他罰的錢是多少每一次都是2萬塊都沒有改變 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5076.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5098.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這樣的一個情況對照一個營業額每年高達上百億的企業來講你認為這樣的一個裁罰金額對他來講是不是不痛不癢他完全不會發揮任何你的這個裁罰效果嗎所以他當然就是一再的忽視你整個性供法裡面所範定的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5099.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5122.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
跟文說明我的確覺得以這個裁罰的紀錄來說那有一些裁罰的金額以他發生的頻次來說的話裁罰金額是太低的那這部分當然是因為這是這部分是地方政府罰的啦我們的法令是地方政府罰那我認為我們會來跟地方政府討論不只是這樣子我們會跟台灣市勞檢處討論相關的裁罰應該要更慎重的來決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5126.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5141.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
第二頁 事實上我們現在為什麼地方政府他其實是裁罰這樣的金額他也可以再往上裁罰但是我們比較現在的新工法跟勞基法其實同樣是長榮航空勞基法罰得比較重 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5142.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5160.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
在性供法裡面就罰得比較輕為什麼因為我們的勞基法裡面他有多增加一個主管機關得一事業規模違反人數或違反情節加重其法環制法定法環的最高額二分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5161.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5180.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
這個就是在原來的母法裡面我覺得勞動基準法它給了一個比較明確的方向告訴主管機關你要是事業的規模違反的人數違規的情節加重罰則但是我們的性工法第38條完全沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5180.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5202.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
這個就是我看到這兩個法令的落差底下一樣是執行的單位主管機關它其實就產生了不同的效果那這個部分我要求我們勞動部應該回過頭來看我們的性工法如果針對這種一再違反事業規模又這麼大 它員工人數這麼多事實上這次的這個裁罰連續都是兩萬塊 我個人覺得是過輕了 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5205.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5221.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
這個部分是不是有檢討的空間我們是不是可以在性供法裡面比照勞基法我們其實給出同樣的這樣的一個修法的重點然後讓未來地方主管機關在執行的時候他們可以按照法的精神就是予以適當的裁法 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5221.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5250.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
委員其實按照這條文來看很清楚其實當然地方主管機關不一定一定只能罰兩萬塊啊當然他當然可以提高啊他可以試他的嚴重的程度他的頻率的程度他的態度他的樣態如果比照勞基法是這樣子寫的時候他在執法上面他就更更敢就是去依照依法行政他就更沒有任何其他的壓力了 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5250.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5269.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
所以我認為這個法的部分其實應該是可以去做一些調整的那另外一個我也希望勞動部去輔導地方政府就將來在面對這樣的法的時候性供法按照現行還是2到30萬如果他是累犯本來就可以往上加但是未來的修法我覺得也很有必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5270.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5298.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
就是讓他在執法上面有一致性大家不會各自去解讀這個是我的建議第二個是有關於這次我們看到這個生病空服員生病不敢請假的這件事喔這個的確我覺得是蠻誇張的因為這個基本的這個健康權這個就是應該是要被保障的那現在呢有人在網路上PO出來說有這個某間公司生病是明碼標價的 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5300.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5314.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
就是平常生病扣一分週末連續假日扣兩分跨年農曆新年生病扣三分我覺得這個是非常誇張的就是生病然後扣分 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5316.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5343.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
這件事情我要求勞動部應該要去查查清楚這個是有人放在網路上面的消息那如果這件事情屬實的話我覺得這一間公司是完完全全違反我們的相關法令這個是很嚴重的違反如果他暗地裡有這樣的一個制度在施行的話這已經是違反人性了這是完全不被允許的所以第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5344.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5373.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
我要求這件事情要查清楚到底是哪家公司有人在網路上是這樣子寫這樣子暗指我覺得你們有調查權你們就好好去把它查出來到底是哪一家公司第二個現在在性平法裡面呢他其實有就是規定就是不立處分的話他是有相關法條在講你不得做出不立處分但是反而我覺得就是我們現在性平法跟勞基法互相有需要 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5374.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5395.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
去調整的地方勞基法是三條七十九條有規定你一定要給病假但是給了之後就像這個誇張的公司我給你啊但是我給你扣分做不利處分我們現行的法令在這個部分並沒有再更進一步的規定其實是沒有的 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5396.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5416.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
跟文說明的確我們認為如果勞工明明就生病那其實該請病假休息卻硬撐著上班其實我們覺得不應該是被制度鼓勵的狀況那所以我們這幾天其實我們做了一些內部的研議第一個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5417.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5439.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
因為很多的這個我們看到也不只是航空業其實蠻多公司他會把這個請病假去跟像全勤獎金來做聯動那我們看到其實我們在包括一些法院的判決裡面也判斷到全勤獎金其實應該是勞工工資的其中一部分所以我們接下來我們也會用比較制度性的要求那比方說 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5440.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5455.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
勞工請病假不應該就被沒收整個月的全勤獎金那像這個這個部分那我們會用制度性的要求來保障勞工的權益那至於但還有更多其他的這個不利的不利的 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5456.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5477.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
處分的狀況因為不利處分的樣態其實是蠻多的那請病假的樣態其實也蠻多的那這有些部分我覺得我們是願意來做一些綜合的檢視我希望經由這次的事件勞工的他生病請假這個是天經地義這一定要保障因為這涉及到他的健康權 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5478.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5502.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
那這個部分經過這次事件我希望整個勞動部通盤的來檢討未來怎麼樣在你的政策甚至在勞基法裡面這種不利處分的情況就是我們可以去要求這些不當的企業必須修正改善或他得到適當的懲處這個是我們應該要去做的事情我希望你們你們大概檢討完之後什麼時候可以提出一個你們比較完整的調整的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5503.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5527.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
我想其實因為這確實會需要一點時間因為我剛才說一個月好不好應該是一個月可以好你們一個月之後把你們這個修我們兩個月好不好對因為我們是兩個月就要很完整我們是真的有在檢討這件事情對因為從這個事件我想國人也希望這個勞動部要有一些作為出來好不好是好那兩個月要提出來最後一個我要問的是跟今天修法有關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5528.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5543.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
這個霸凌案的調查我個人認為最重要的就是這些委員事實上勞動部自己也經歷過霸凌案的這個調查事件第一版的調查官官相護所以呢沒有人需要懲處沒有人需要負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5544.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5560.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
那社會輿論發酵之後 你再重啟調查才真正把這個問題揪出來那我在這一次的修法裡面 職安法修法裡面呢我特別就針對職安法22條之3我認為外聘委員的比例 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5561.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5582.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
至少要超過一半我就是要杜絕官官相互我也希望委員可以保有這樣的一個專業性跟中立性我更希望的是這個調查報告不是敷衍的報告而是能還原真相的報告但是很遺憾看到你們的修法意見你們其實不贊成在母法裡面訂定 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5582.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5608.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
跟委員說明其實因為原本治安法的這個體力其實有很多相關的會是一個框架性跟原則性的訂定那我們的確也看到蠻多委員會關心比方說我們調查希望僱主能夠啟動調查跟處理的程序那大家很關心說裡面有些程序是不是有可能在母法訂定其實我覺得我們是可以接受比方說到時候我們在 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5609.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5628.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
在審查的時候我們把相關的要求也許用一個附帶決議的方式那大家把它給要求進去放在執法裡面我為什麼堅持這一條呢其他程序你們在執法可以訂定因為我認為一個調查報告我自己過去也待過地方一個調查報告的關鍵坦白講就在這些委員身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5629.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5651.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
敢不敢深入調查要不要深入調查可不可以還原事實委員自為關鍵如果你委員的比例亂定一通然後官官相互其他的以下的程序坦白講通通都無關痛癢了所以這個其實是源頭我們在執法裡面我們其實也說明我們基本上就會定要至少二分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5652.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5667.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
對 我要求一定是要二分之一因為這樣子你才能確保霸凌案的調查報告至關重要他關乎會不會成案委員就非常的重要好不好這一點我是非常堅持的就是一定要超過50%好 以上謝謝好 謝謝翁委員接下來請邱政軍委員來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5680.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5681.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
主席好 我們請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5690.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5710.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
邱委員好部長好還是有關長榮空勤人員這個暴病出勤後就醫死亡的案件昨天我看到部長對外表示是長榮航空違法的紀錄不少應該要好好跟工會協商誠懇面對基層員工的聲音和需求 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5711.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5720.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
也說不會只聽長榮的片面之詞那書面報告進一步指出4年來這個航空業勞動檢查238場有50場違反規定的情形那違法率大概是兩成 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5727.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5751.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
可是我們看到裁罰了725萬元裡面長榮就佔了352萬元那佔比約7成部長 雖然這是桃園市勞工局初步的調查這個公司接獲員工反映身體不適後的處置都還算是符合規定但是我們本席質疑的是這位空服員已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5752.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5766.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
不舒服的為什麼不直接請假還要勉強自己去出勤我認為公司這個勤務安排與請假制度才是關鍵我覺得是應該要從制度面來做檢討那請問部長這部分有沒有列入調查的範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5768.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5787.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
我想整個這個這位組員那他在生前所經歷的狀況我想當然都會是在調查的範圍裡面那我們也現在希望能夠對於一些當不管是當場的組員或者是相關的厲害相關人進行訪談 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5789.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5812.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為我看到他們前員工在社群網路上的指控該公司的空服員如果連續三個月請假包含特休只要超過三天隔月即會喪失選班選假的資格更嚴重的是如果員工因健康狀況較長請假還會被提出改善計畫造成員工不敢生病 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5813.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5835.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
或不敢請假的情形這個形同變相的懲罰我在強調這點就是說我們希望說事情發生了當然各個方面的措施我們都要去檢討但是我看到整個制度面確實是應該有我們應該要列入調查的一個重點部長認為呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5838.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5863.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
我想制度面的檢討其實我們也同步在進行那當然我說制度也分幾個部分一個部分是公司內部的制度那另外一個也包括如果他公司的規定不合理呢如果剛剛在我們講的是這種這種方式的話公司內部不合理有幾個部分第一個當然從從行政的角度當然要看他我們這樣講如果他是這樣規定有沒有違反勞基法 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5865.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5879.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
有沒有違反勞基法這個還要再我們要再來做確認但是我的意思說剛剛跟我們報告如果公司內部不合理有幾個有幾個條件第一個就是有沒有違反法規第二個這也是為什麼我們昨天強調其實有蠻多 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5882.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5899.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
這個如果不合理的要求其實是可以透過勞資方面的協商所以我們這也是為什麼希望公司應該要誠懇的跟工會好好的協商因為事實上上個月我們長榮因為超時工作的關係也被裁罰這個一百萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5900.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5918.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這已經罰到最高了當然他還可以再提高二分之一你們書面報告也說航空業4年50次長榮佔了一半這些大公司好像根本不怕因為罰不痛改不動依舊目視勞工的健康部長你會不會覺得長榮只怕交通部不怕勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5922.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
5945.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
我想我是不會這樣認定啦所以部長你要印起來好不好這是勞工的權益的確需要跨部會大家一起來督促來要求航空業不去做出制度性的改善因為這個制度性過勞的狀況我希望這個我們部裡面應該要檢討一下是不是有需要提修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
5947.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
5969.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
結論這種情形我這樣看就是說不會發生在空服員身上希望勞動部透過這次的不幸把相關的法令還有制度的漏洞一一修補那禁止企業透過排班績效或升遷制度霸凌依法請假的員工我想這個也應該把它做一個全面性的一個檢討部長可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
5970.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
5985.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
就是我的確是認為這個勞工生病卻硬撐著不休息那這個其實從職場健康的角度來說的確是不該被制度性的鼓勵對 那我希望把這個制度大家做一個檢討好不好因為我認為這不會只在長榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
5987.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6011.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
其他企業應該也會有這種情形那接下來就有關巨大機械招美國海關發出這個戰扣令的重大案件台灣製造業人心惶惶那這個案件凸顯勞工人權已經成為國際貿易門檻及企業的一個風險那也顯示台灣勞工人權治理國際趨勢有落差那上個禮拜說你們將會與經濟部一起通案檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6012.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6035.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
那預告明年會成立這個延攬中心進行國與國的對接強化政府在職聘制度的角色對嗎是那為了回應人權及貿易的新規則部長是否同意盡快修復這個修訂這個就業服務法及相關指引明確禁止向勞工收取仲介費跟招募費全面實施這個勞工的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6040.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6068.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
ILO的這個倡議我想我們首先會先跟經濟部一起來來合作一個這個輔導的機制那但是法規的部分我們也會同步的來檢視那看法規調整的需求這部分我們會同步來檢視但的確因為台灣的企業的規模樣態比較多所以有可能我們的企業也需要一定也需要一點時間來去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6070.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6098.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
來怎麼樣去更趨近國際要求的調適因為我看到我們產業都這個這產業都與巨大的這個狀況差不多有很多都有涉及強迫勞動的這個五項高風險指標例如跨境招募公司管理這個宿舍品質這些面向勞動部會不會提出新的政策指引來協助這個整體製造業的這個這個改善我們會我們會提出指引那這個指引的目標其實就是希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6099.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6127.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
盡量去對準這個國際上面的規範跟要求請部長這邊 我們部裡面快一點我們企業與人權國家的行動計畫已經公佈實施了五年那國家人權委員會建議定期檢討及更新那人權團體也一再催生這個更新版那勞動部是否這個是跨部會小組的一個重要成員那部長這個政府何時會提出新的這個更新版 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6128.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6156.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
各位說沒有 企業與人權的這個部分是經濟部在我知道你們是跨部會的成員但是我剛才說我們也不只是在那個企業與人權的那個裡面去處理我們其實我們一定是要跟經濟部來合作這些相關的資金跟輔導基金跟經濟部來這邊來反映看能不能速度加快因為歐盟將在2027年強制要求企業進行人權禁止調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6157.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6173.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
那這個部分如果我們要應該要盡快提出供應鏈人權保障及企業禁止調查的相關立法那台灣企業要跟國際做生意啦我希望我們這些這部分要加快腳步好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6173.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6200.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
歐盟的CSDD現在大概延一年到2028可是我們其實還是非常非常的審慎在看待現在國際上面對強迫勞動標準的提高所以也不但不會因為歐盟延一年我們就放鬆 不會所以我們會很積極的來跟產業界來做相關的輔導同時就像剛才說的關於法規是否要調整的這個檢視我們一併也在做法規的檢視好 最後一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6200.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6224.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那回到這個職安法職場霸凌的修法問題那這次修法聚焦在公安預防全面化及職場霸凌法制化的兩個重點那請問部長公務人員可以向保訓會這個提起再申訴那勞工如果不服公司的調查是否可以向這個地方勞動機關提起再申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6225.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6243.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
答案是不行跟委員說明我們其實現在這次治安法的設計裡面其實第一個它可以向企業來申請再次的申付企業內部是有如果勞工覺得在僱主在處理調查處理的過程裡面在程序上面是有違反法規的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6244.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6272.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
他其實是可以跟我們的主管機關或者是我們的勞檢單位依照39條就是治安法39條來要求外部的檢查來去確認相關的程序是否有符合法規對這個要請外部委員對不對這是要請外部委員來調查這個是勞檢依照39條是請勞檢外部的檢查來去做程序性的檢視如果有違反法規的話他必須改善或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6273.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6286.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
甚至有可能要重啟調查對那這些調查的人是這個委員是外聘嗎對不對如果要重啟調查當然還是要符合一定的這個我們外聘委員的要求對因為我曾經發現這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6289.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6307.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我們有外聘委員他有時候有些他有其他的這個這個兼職他也是幫我們這個資方來打官司勞工權益來打官司的這個專門聘請的律師也曾經擔任這個外聘委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6308.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6331.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
像這個東西的話他可以這樣做嗎跟文說明我們接下來對於外聘委員的包括人數比例包括他的要做利益迴避他的中立性我們都會在附屬法規裡面然後把它給定清楚好那你們部裡面既然知道了我希望把這些都把它列入重點那也希望這次修法能夠做得完整一點是謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6337.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6364.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
好 謝謝 接下來請林月琴委員來做宣達那委員會這邊宣導 林委員宣達結束之後我們休息十分鐘主席麻煩部長 請部長林委員早 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6365.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6386.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
部長早我想個案還在釐清想問一個大家都在問的問題為什麼長榮罰不怕從2023年以來因為超時工作就被罰了7次共295萬還有性平違規 外戰性騷擾等爭議是不是因為罰款太低對這些大企業這個罰款只是營運成本之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6387.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6410.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
所以更嚴重的是有空務員還跟我講說公司內規根本把法規當塑膠的請假扣考金 身兼備卡學長姐的壓迫文化還有導致員工身體不舒服不敢請假權益受損也不敢申訴這是不是制度性的風險勞基法的第79條跟80條的加重處罰跟限期改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6411.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6431.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
對於長榮根本沒有效所以部長對這種違法的一個常客的大企業罰錢不是終點勞動部到底有沒有具體的一個讓限期改善真正的能夠落實跟委員說明第一個我想我們會堅守這個執法的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6433.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6456.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那的確我們現在看到有一些在地方的勞檢機構他的裁發的金額太低那我們也會來跟地方的勞檢機構來做討論那是狀況包括其實以長榮的事業規模跟這個他整個公司的營運的狀況其實如果是連續的他如果是連續的這樣子的常態性的狀況的話當然這個金額 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6460.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6480.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
不應該是用這樣的方式在進行那第二個是我們會來加強對於不管尤其是長榮那他的這個專案的勞檢這部分我們會來那第三個其實我們也會考慮其實對像這樣子的慣犯那 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6482.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6509.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
其實有時候一些適度的資訊的揭露專案式的資訊的揭露其實也會對他有一定的嚇阻的效果因為以長榮或這樣的航空業其實他們也很在意自己的企業形象可是大家卻看到這樣的企業形象下面卻是在勞動條件上面有這樣子的表現我覺得這可能跟社會上面大家對他的期待是有很大的落差 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6510.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6525.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
我覺得還是要髮制了你說講到他在不在意企業形象可是你看資金還是用人命來買單好 那他似乎好像也沒有特別去對這件事情有些什麼樣的一個做更好的一個機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6525.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6552.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
那再來部長今天原本要審的職安法的職場霸凌專章但我必須說就是長榮空服員來跟我檢舉的時候都很害怕因為在權力不對等下他們怕被報復怕被標籤化然後怕丟工作只能選擇噤聲六年前長榮罷工大家都記得但罷工後企業用法律戰一拖就是六年讓勞工吃盡苦頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6555.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6579.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
就算最後勝訴很多人早已因為經濟的壓力退出工會甚至離職學界說這就是工會的脆弱性面對企業的訴訟權根本就是雞蛋撞石頭部長我要請教是勞動部到底能不能透過修法讓工會法更積極的能夠平衡企業的訴訟力量保障我們的勞工的團結權 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6583.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6608.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
報告委員 我們工會法針對不當容的行為都有相當明文的規定那長榮的工會也都來跟我們申請那我們裁決委員會也都有判斷構成不當容的行為但是往往在訴訟的時候確實是法院的看法有時候不盡相同不過我們也會來繼續來努力看怎麼再來精進我們這個裁決或許會再爭取更多的法院對我們的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6608.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6632.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
我希望勞動部可以多花一些心思 為什麼因為像上禮拜我們講職災的時候也是都是要勞工自己去面對不管事實上他因為他的勞權受損或者是他職災的時候都是要自己去面對訴訟一拖就是非常的時間上非常的長那部長接下來我想請教一個那個障礙青年拖我一定要問的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6633.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6644.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
兩個月前你在公開場合說過一句話台灣身心障礙者的勞動參與率只有21.9%還有很大的進步空間那現在兩個月都過去了部長有沒有新的對策我想關於剛才林委員講的部分應該是在那個障礙者的合理調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6653.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6678.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
的一個重要的研討會的現場那我來做這樣的表達那我想我們對於障礙者的這個合理調因為合理調整其實是障礙者能夠進入到一個職場那甚至能夠去盡量的去做就業的穩定其實一個很重要的措施所以我們現在其實非常非常重視障礙者的合理調整那我們現在也跟很多的障礙者社群是直接的來合作 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6678.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6707.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
所以現在其實應該是在一個宣導跟宣講全台灣宣導跟宣講的這個階段那可是我說我們跟障礙者社群的合作我們也希望接下來能夠創造更多的案例那就像委員的投影片上對我們來講很清楚合理調整並不是一個鼓勵性的合理調整是雇主有義務的提供因為這在蠻多的這個法院的判決其實也看到所以這是有義務的提供我想我們把這個立場是說得很清楚了 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6708.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6737.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
那勞動部掌握的資料大家也要請教是說關於身障者的勞動參與率就業率平均薪資跟穩定就業時間你們有沒有依照年齡學歷障別去做更多的更細緻的交叉分析為什麼要這樣問因為要從21.9%提高上去就要靠這些資料才能夠對症下藥我常常講數據會說話才能讓你了解到問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6738.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6761.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
可是我現在看到資料幾乎只有用性別交叉分析沒有反映出更細緻的需求是不是有把只要特教鑑定證明但是沒有拿到身障手冊這群人的數據納入分析部長這種針對基礎資料的掌握跟分析你覺得現在的分析是否足夠能夠跟障礙就業這麼多元的議題來做對話 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6766.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6789.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
謝謝委員的提醒 因為委員其實很關心那在委員關心之後 我也特別去了解 確實過去我們相關的這個就業狀況的調查其實比較只有針對性別的部分那我們願意來增加一些其他的變相 包括行業職業其他部分 這部分我想我請我們署裡面來跟委員辦公室請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6789.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6813.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
接下來我要談的是我們的政策工具的問題特別是定額禁用的制度去年平均下來除了禁用的單位比例事實上是91.63%非常高上面上成績很好看可是要問的是即便有聘用這些工作內容我們真的瞭解嗎政府的統計數據來看障礙者就業的主要集中在製造業多半是基礎 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6814.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6843.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
基层的技术劳工跟服务销售的工作很多障碍青年跟我说这些职业样态根本就没有对应到他们障碍者多元的需求那也严重限制了他们职业发展的可能性因为都做非常低底层的工作是不是很多工作还是集中在甚至就是文师处理行政术物这些低职能晋升空间很有限的职位那部长这些比例你有掌握吗你怎么去回应他讲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6844.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6863.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
跟委員說明因為確實定額禁用是過去在申請法的時候其實一個蠻重要的一步可是這個部分比較能看得出是一個量的狀況可是就就業的值的部分比方說大家現在關心他就業的穩定或者是他的適配的狀況等等等這是為什麼我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6865.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6889.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
現在非常非常重視職場合理調整的原因因為現在委員講到的這些重要的概念其實恐怕核心的概念都是必須把合理調整做好把合理調整做好才有可能有比較高的適配率跟留任跟穩定的這個狀況所以我們接下來如果要把這些工作給做好或這些指標做好的話我認為最重要的事情是把合理調整給做到更踏實 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6891.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6915.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
我们也希望你针对不同账别的程度转型后的一些适配度跟留任率跟留任时间跟工作满意度进行统整调查再麻烦劳动部这边那接下来部长我还有一件事情是障碍朋友一直要我来这边做反应的是他们质疑有些大企业会打着创新合作的名义规避禁用责任怎么做呢他们就把定额禁用的 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6915.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6942.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
那个名额外包给各大专院校资源中心让身上学生用校园活动的助理的名义短期工作名义上人数都没有问题实际上是没有投入长期的培训也没有承担雇主要的责任所以学生也根本都没有进到那个企业就在学校里边部长 这种状况你们有没有掌握如果企业这样子的专漏洞劳动部到底要怎么监督要不要考虑修法例如规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6943.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6948.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
換聘必須附帶培訓計畫或是限制登入方式來防止濫用 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6953.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6972.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
目前針對身權法規定的定額禁用那有些企業在身障禁用的部分會與大專校院來合作禁用身心障礙的學生有供讀進行供讀的工作那因為供讀的工作也都需要符合相關的勞動法規的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6975.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7000.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
可是我收到好幾個案子都不是這樣有的學生權益受到影響老師也是背負了很大的壓力所以我覺得這部分是不是因為現在時間關係是不是提供相關的你們到底掌握的狀況到底是什麼提供給我們辦公室來讓我們了解否則的話我們目前看到的狀況跟你們所去做的那個狀況不太一樣為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7002.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7024.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
因為政府現在對雇主的管理真的是太像茶水錶你只看有沒有禁用 名冊對不對卻沒有後續的支持所以張艾青您常跟我講說他們現在學校遇到的問題甚至他們出了職場當中遇到的問題都是跟你們在我們看到你的報告實在不太一樣那就麻煩再提供給我這是為什麼我一直覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7025.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7043.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
不應該只著重在定額禁用的數字因為只是著重在定額禁用的這個總體的數字的時候其實可能下面會有各種的樣態它不一定都符合我們原本的期待或政策期待所以我覺得這部分我們會來做一些檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7044.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7058.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
好 最後一個是部長我很快請教一個問題上回會期我們就討論到未成年就業我覺得真的勞動部很用心也開始在做多元的方案非常感謝你們的努力可是唯一沒有被處理的就是未成年就業現況跟勞動權益的調查因為從少數有勞保的資料來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7064.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7078.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
15歲在工地營建製造業的比例竟然比16、17歲還要高部長你認為這樣的數字代表什麼這群孩子年紀非常小 技能不足可是他們只能做的是被挑剩下的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7078.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7101.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
最常还常为了领先去高风险没有保障的一个职场所以这样的困境如果没有制度协助的话会一路拖到青年阶段所以部长要更深入的掌握到数据背后的意义对政策对准来做需求这项调查是不是赶快能够启动让民间而且邀请民间跟民间团体一起来合作进行 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7103.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7128.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
這個未成年的少年不管他可能一般家長未未少年未就學未就業的少年我們的確看到一個現象他其實他常常會對現金就是眼前現金他有比較大的需求所以他有可能會因為這個原因去做一些高風險的職業我想這可能我們會放到整體對未未少年的 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7129.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7144.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
整個就業的輔導我覺得特別來關注這件事情可能這也不是調查調查我們可以做可以讓他更完備就可以做可是的確我們怎麼樣避免他因為需要短期的這個經費需要生活的費用然後 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7144.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7159.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
去做這些高風險的狀況或甚至以身試法我覺得可能放在我們整體的框架我們會請我們法案署這邊來特別留意這個事情因為我們對於我覺得一直一直我在提醒青少年們都非常用心可不可以在這一部分再加強一下好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7163.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7177.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好 謝謝部長 好 謝謝好 休息十分鐘啦 剛剛宣告了啦 抱歉那個 CO2 已經超過一千多了齁你們在現場的職業安全也不太安全 好不好從後稍微打開一下啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7872.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7898.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
好 我們繼續開會 接下來請蘇清泉召委來做詢答好 謝謝 謝謝劉召委那我請部長 洪部長來 請部長還有我們的民航局局長請局長還有郭威中 我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7900.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7924.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
議事司 國會專委部長 您今天的職安法修訂是有四個主題嘛一個是職場霸凌啦 什麼沿途管理啦什麼轉包的啦 這些嘛 還有綜劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7927.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7955.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
好 我問你 因為我最近接了很多軍醫院的投訴我要問你就是在財長法院跟社長法院他的員工全部都是勞保所以你們管理沒問題 你們治安管理在軍醫院跟國家醫院 就是教育部的醫院裡面有公務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7957.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7972.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
業聘人員這兩套人馬你們是怎麼管理如果產生霸凌的事情的時候一個是用公務人員一個是用勞動部這邊在醫院裡面都可以適用治安法 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7973.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7991.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
都是用慈安法那這些軍醫院的就是用職權上來壓迫或者是用言語在霸凌那這些業聘的人員早上都七八點就打電話來這樣走走走啦我請劉俊國召回可能你也有收到喔 有喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7998.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8002.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
所以他們的投訴還要投訴雙保險投訴之後再跟劉建國投訴這樣會比較穩那這個你們要怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8013.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8039.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
像委員講這個案例他的這個身份的話基本上其實都是可以適用治安法的那在這次裡面我們當然就是用這個職場霸凌專章的方式那如果他遭受到的是職場霸凌的狀況所以我們也把職場霸凌的定義那也包括該處理的程序也包括對於申訴人的保護其實這次也都放到我們職場霸凌的專章裡面所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8043.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8064.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
不過我要求他們院方檢討也沒什麼效果很想開記者會但是又怕傷到因為同樣是異界的人給他傷及無辜所以這個要不要去查一下法輪部應該治安署知道了吧到現在還不知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8066.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8095.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
如果你有相關的案件當然可以轉給我們當然我們可以來看他是屬於不法侵害還是職場霸凌那依照其實相關的程序我想就依照法治的程序來處理包括調查包括處置因為現在護理師 護理人員缺的一塌糊塗大家都瘦命 過都過不去比較有可能再這樣這種事情的腐朽實在是無法想像所以金醫院 今天金方隊員要來 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8104.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8118.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
所以選手這邊要去查一下你把相關的案件我把資料轉給你好 那再來就是沿途管理跟轉包的事情這些轉包的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8119.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
8133.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
因為我們的一個案子那假期營造廠 超假期營造廠來裱一定會轉包嘛 要不然轉包就吊車啦 什麼啦這都很貴的東西嘛所以轉包還是請外面的人來做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
8142.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
8161.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
請問外面的調審要怎麼管理你聽我的意思跟委員說明第一個我們其實也是檢視現階段的法規裡面看到在這個階段裡面我們現在的法規業主是沒有責任的所以這一次業主 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
8163.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
8176.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
業主業主比方說對就比方說過去終結事件的業主是新復發新復發就是業主是沒有責任的可是其實業主在整體的這個案件的這 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
8179.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
8204.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
資本的投入或者是經費的投入上面他們其實才是最主導者所以應該要讓業主科與這些相關如果資安發生的話或者是防治的責任那我們會從這個角度來去做相關的這個也要求要有一定的所以像那個案子就是終結這個案子是新戶發戶最後完全是責任是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
8205.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
8234.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
其實包括包商也會有可是我們過去的職安法的規定會讓常常變成最後追究責任者是最底層的那個包商最底層的那個包商然後業主最上面其實他的財力也好他公司規模他對整個案場的主導性的規模更大的業主都沒有責任我們覺得這是不合理的所以才在這次修法裡面把業主的責任放進來那我問你這一件案子新募發最後處理的有沒有完善 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
8236.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
8248.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
還是什麼 都塞塞給客人然後客人幫我倒就糟糕了這樣是不是這樣包含這個以現行的法令確實業主是沒辦法在治安法裡面科以責任的沒有辦法所以 現在修法有沒有有 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
8253.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
8272.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
跟文說明我們認為如果要把職場的安全做好的話其實業主願意投入一定的經費這個是安全的投資很重要今天如果業主不願意對於安全進行投資的話下面的包商下面執行的人怎麼做都很難符合大家的期待 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
8272.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
8298.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
所以業主要有一定的責任他願意投入一定的成本在這個上面來讓下面的包商有經費能夠好好把安全的問題給做好所以這時候為什麼要把業主的角色在這次修法給拉出來這次是關鍵這個非常重要啦因為你入住你就是要負社會的責任你要勇敢承擔 勇敢面對嘛不可以塞塞給你的轉包 轉包 轉包這一個工頭他怎麼有力量人家要幫你負責啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
8302.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
8318.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
你吊車 車吊車比較貴的一隻幾六億你當然也要多挖 挖來出事你幸運的話 你才負最後的完全責任所以這件事情處理得不漂亮還是有完善因為法規上面的限制所以變成我們很難對業主進行相關責任的追究那這是修法 要把它完善喔當然好 再來我請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
8332.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
8334.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這個長榮這個事件大家都已經這兩天不敢再亂了 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
8336.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
8360.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
我要說的是steer disease這個病是一種自體免疫的疾病這種自體免疫疾病是基因的問題後天的問題但是這種自體免疫疾病一定會如果是日夜顛倒或者高壓或者是生理失蹤破壞它會加重 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
8361.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
8385.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
家中會腎臟有問題 會血管發炎 甚至會猝死都有所以這個發生這種不幸 大家都很不甘你如果說買職業 我們每一年都有做職業傷害的像機師 他就做運動性練徒甚至於做核子醫學 三臨scan等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
8386.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8409.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
那這些空無言事實上他們也是高強度日夜顛倒立體職業每一年的例行檢查這一些奇怪的這些要用點心思啦這要找出來這種美人就不適合做日夜顛倒的行為所以這個發生這種事大家都斷不掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8410.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8423.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
所以可以加賣這比較重要就是說他的每年我們一般每年勞工的那個檢查都是大概一些routine的嘛驗血 驗尿 S光 那沒有啦那個驗不出來什麼東西啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8429.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8446.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
包委員有關於這個健康檢查的部分剛剛委員關心的這部分那如果說針對這個空服員他在這個執行上是不是有特殊的檢查項目我們這次也要蒐集國外的一些資料來調整我們現在健檢項目針對空情人員那這邊剛剛委員講說這個如果這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8448.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8473.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
這個同仁有這樣的問題的話其實在目前的法規裡面有規定雇主在一開始的針對這個空服員的身體健康狀況要做適性的配供在目前的現行的法令就有這樣規定 對所以這個你要會同醫師來做這些不同職業的現在有一些職業變相胸腔的啦 什麼啦會細症啦等等都有在做特殊那這個 這個應該要納入所以這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8478.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8505.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
衛部有沒有意見 民航局局長你不可以講一下你手到底有在管理嗎謝謝委員剛剛提示到的有關那個組員的健康管理的部分確實有一些疾病其實是醫療上面的專業那我也會 剛剛委員的建議就是說有關勞動部或者是這個跟這個相關醫師單位來訂這個的時候我們民航局也可以來加入一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8506.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8526.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
因為我知道機師副機師他們好像半年就要做一次運動訓練圖一有問題就抓起來做核子醫學諸如此類的空服員這邊是生理時鐘都打壞這一種的有一些自體免疫的那些項目找專家來看看 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8527.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8554.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
不然的話這個雖然病例不多但是偶爾都會發現那這種常常會造成遺憾的事情那這樣如果說他已經不舒服了他跟他的長官講跟他的座艙長講他到底是怎麼處理我們也不知道啦這個你們要再調查所以這一塊我希望我們部裡面要看看怎麼來做好好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8557.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8574.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
當然這個是在我們勞工 醫改這要做什麼 我可以幫忙看能不能找人來做一些特殊的 好不好謝謝委員好 謝謝接下來請廖偉祥召委來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8588.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8601.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
謝謝主席那請洪部長來請洪部長然後還有我們交通部的代表交通部代表就局長還是司長和局長好了司長跟局長好我來廖院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8603.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8631.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
部長招然後還有局長市長那剛剛很多人也都問為什麼這個長榮罰不怕是不是罰太輕或等等的那其實剛剛也有委員問部長說修法的部分為什麼我們修的比較減少你說有些國家呢注重於用法來處罰對不對就是用司法用司法來處罰嘛對不對那有一些國家注重公司治理對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8632.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8653.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
好 那我想要看一下我們的這個第一頁因為本席有看到這個你看一下 這個是長榮的一個空服員他說前陣子一趟紅眼航班我讓身體不適和疲憊不堪的學妹去休息一下那因為服勤期間未遵守標準作業程序而被懲處 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8655.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8681.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
好那他說很多人說規定就是規定可是我始終覺得要保障人而不是犧牲人讓需要的人休息不應該是一件被檢討的事好所以他這兩天他看到這個學妹出事的新聞他心裡很難過好那簡單來講本席看到這篇文章的時候他簡單來講這個空服員他就是讓他的學妹在身體不適的時候去休息然後呢他被公司處罰了 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8683.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8709.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
他被公司處罰了那我想要請問這是不是剛剛部長說你說有些人喜歡用司法處理有些人喜歡用公司治理處理這是不是公司治理出了問題那你們該做些什麼事情我剛才講的跟這部分是兩件事情我剛才在講的部分比較是職場霸凌的這個處理的機制我剛才講的是職場霸凌的機制因為剛剛跟沒有其實我知道但是你剛講的這兩點其實也跟今天考 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8709.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8723.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
就是討論的議題有關嗎對 但是我剛才回答陳英衛委員這部分是怎樣指職場霸凌的法治體制那這部分當然是另外一個部分對 所以我想要請問一下那這樣子的話這樣的情況部長你怎麼看然後我們該怎麼處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8725.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8750.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
跟文說們的確我們認為這個人其實我這個是他公開的臉書貼文啦但是他其實還有另外的懲處單啦很正名的一件事情這樣子的企業文化他意思是說在飛機上他讓該休息的人休息結果他被懲處了那你說今天是不是就是一個單一座艙長的問題還是是整個企業文化出了問題所以我要扣回到你剛剛的回答我的意思就是說那 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8751.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8774.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
在司法上面如果現在不能處理的話請問在公司製理面你們有什麼想法呢部長或者是我們的民航局因為剛剛也有說罰不怕第一個罰不怕嘛那第二個剛剛也有委員問說那他是不是不怕你勞動部他比較怕交通部那好我們現在不去究竟說到底誰怕誰這公司製理是不是出了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8775.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8793.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
我們的確看到航空長期的勞資關係的文化跟管理的文化其實是對於很多的基層員工把他們的需求可以表達出來是不太友善的 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8793.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8811.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
那部長這該怎麼做因為剛剛說我罰不怕嘛你剛剛說那個不管請假啊每一次罰兩萬啊或等等第一個是我們當然對於這個處罰的狀況我們會來跟地方的勞檢單位來討論是不是該加重是情節來加重的就應該加重這是一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8812.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8827.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那第二個當然我也表的我們也表達我們認為公司應該要誠懇的和基層員工和工會來針對他們的需求協商因為他這個事情其實跟今天這事有很大關係你看他連一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8829.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8849.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
其他的個案會讓大家有寒蟬消音嘛那另外其他座廠長或者是在裡面的學姐他敢讓自己的學妹或者其他不舒服的人讓他休息嗎不敢對不對所以導致今天的憾事那我就想要問了好部長你剛剛等於沒辦法回答嘛那我想問那這個交通部這裡你們在公司治理上你們可以要求些什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8849.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8877.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我想跟委員報告有關這個在飛機上的執勤時間或者是相關的任務如果組員有表達他的不舒服那實際上在上面的事務長是可以來調整他的工作那如果說已經表達了那公司制度上事務長還不同意或者是什麼我們會就譬如說相關的個案我們會去調查那如果真的有違反民航法的相關規定的話那我們是可以這個事情你們要啟動調查嗎對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8878.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8907.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
因為這個是對今天看看我們再來看看這個實際的個案是什麼樣的一個情形就是包含這次出事的我覺得他是一個看到的個案他背後一定是一個治理的問題還有包含剛所謂企業文化公司治理的問題那當然裁罰部分剛剛部長有回答應該要視情況增加因為他看起來是完全是罰不怕好這件事情我們今天先就是先到這我下一題我要問這個可以司長和局長們可以回座我要問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8908.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8929.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
部長去年發生北分署的霸凌案件也導致的這一次執安法的霸凌專章納進去那部長你上任之後也有信誓旦旦說要就過去救安基金濫用的情形進行整頓所以在幾次的立法院的質詢中也有提到一些相關的改革計畫對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8930.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8945.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
好那我想請問一下我們正在做那我想請教一下對你們正在做了嘛對不對那我想請教一下你們的精進作為有哪些再講一次好嗎我們其實是從他的支出面跟管理面那也包括資訊公開的部分在救安基金的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8947.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8967.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
管理的強化上面那也包括我們其實把一些其實不該放入到救援基金比方說一些禮品的採購我們是直接就把它停下來了那我們也增加了內機跟內控跟外機的機制好所以部長所以你有講幾個方面嘛然後第一個你說還有包含支出面嘛對不對好那我們就從支出面來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8968.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8997.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
你可以看一下下一頁簡報當初你們的用途面說爭取合理編列公務預算對吧然後呢還有包含因此目前編列的就業安定基金的相關的行政管理費用正式編制職員人事費用國外旅費辦公處所修繕的行政費用跟這些無關的相關的費用你都要編入公務預算對嗎我們希望爭取是吧對不對希望爭取好那下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9001.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9021.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
所以你可以看到你們現在依據你們的編列的部分包含著就業安定基金之用原則基金應該限於提升訓練人員職業職能參與國際技能賽事與交流辦理外國人來源國際業務等用途但是你們明年度的就安基金的計劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9022.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9042.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
第一個還是有將出國旅費公務員的薪資還有一部分非關就業安定用途的行政費用納入好我們就用正式的原額來說用人費剛剛你裡面有提到的正式編制人員的人事費用你要去改進檢討而且你也正在進行中對嗎可是你可以看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9043.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9056.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我們就業安定基金這兩個計畫外國人聘僱管理及許可計畫裡面的用人費用從前年度到上一年度都是暴增的到明年度115年更是增加了很多從這個2900萬變成4300萬再變成6000 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9063.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9081.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
將近6000萬這個是用人費用外國聘管的部分在促進國民就業計畫你的用人費用也是一樣從900萬成長到今年是1600多萬到明年是3000萬都是增加千萬以上的等級所以我本席想問的就是你的針對你的精進作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9082.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9104.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
你看起來是空投支票你是沒有做到你的承諾包含這個人事費用我剛也給你看了你當初的報告是這樣寫所以你是不是你是不是背棄了你的承諾你是不是沒有做到你的承諾跟委員說絕對不是你想的背棄第一個我們其實是有跟行政院來爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9106.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9135.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
就像刚才讲的出国计划我们是有跟行政院我们先讲我们先救人事费就好你上面有说你的精进作为对正式编制人员的人事费用人事费用的部分其实是我们在讲到说这个现在其实是以比例的分担那我们其实这是跟人种的讨论我们当然其实也希望能够争取更多能够回编到公务预算我们跟很简单因为你的精进作为简单来讲就是没做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9137.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9158.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
那而且你也不能夠說第一個你說主計總數不給你人不是我跟委員說明我們其實跟主總在今年上半年我們其實非常非常積極的跟主總討論很多次跟主總希望能夠爭取有一些過去其實用在救安基金的人事費是不是能夠回編到公務預算裡面但因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9160.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9174.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
現在財務法通過以後整體中央的這個財政的預度其實也受到了影響所以後來我們並沒有全部原本的期待都爭取回去部長很好 下一頁好 第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9174.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9191.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
你們現在勞動力發展所的人是有增加的好你有增加了但是你現在基金就業安定基金的使用也增加了這麼多然後你剛提到才化法我早就料到你會這樣講下一頁115年勞動部主管的預算比上114年增加了多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9193.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9216.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
增加了43億多將近44億啊那部長你還要去扯財化法這第一件事 第二件事情委員你要看裡面的工作項目啊因為工作項目也增加了啊你的精進作為已經承諾了所以你現在又再把它推到各種的理由上面那你是不是把你的精進作為視為無誤那你當初還需要花這麼多時間來報告你的就業安定計劃嗎跟委員說明 第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9217.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9228.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
不是只單純看這個金額你要看我們的工作的項目有沒有增加這就是非常簡單的數字你要去扯好多細項你說有什麼東西但是你的勞動主管一定增加了43億多啊那我跟你說這兩件事情我只是要扣回去跟你說就業安定基金你根本沒有做到你的精進作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9241.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9261.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
因為你的人事聘用增加了非常多委員你把你的這個投影片可以往前看那張我其實最前面那張部長我要跟你說你現在在這裡詭辯我們其實就是說我們會盡力的來爭取合理編列公務預算我們在上半年不斷的跟組總在做這部分的爭取 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9263.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9280.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我們成功的爭取批編公務預算2點多億我們白紙黑字就寫爭取合理編列公務預算所以你現在是要說你想要改進就業基金安定基金濫用的情況但是行政院不支持你嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9280.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9305.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
主總在這一次的財務上面他因為這個財務法的編列 財務法的遇度有下降你承諾出來的東西就應該要做到而不是用各種理由去推脫你在下一頁我們就很簡單看你上面就說你人事的正式編列預算應該要回到公務預算嘛那你現在公務預算也增加了結果你就業安定基金的這個人事費用也增加了 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9305.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9334.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
那我們不知道我們在監督什麼那你當初的基金作為是什麼呢在行政上面並不是有在救安基金用到人士就是不對的因為這裡面有很多的人士他是在執行救安基金的任務如果是我們跟組總討論如果人士是執行救安基金的任務的話其實只有組總跟我們說包括也審計組總跟我們說其實這是可以合理的編在救安基金裡面因為他是執行救安基金的任務 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9336.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9364.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
並不是拿去買禮物並不是拿去做其他跟救難基金無關的用途來沒關係再上一頁好我現在不想再跟你吵下去了因為你現在可以用各種理由說這裡我要多邊緣邊緣啊因為用什麼可是你這裡就講得很簡單嘛所以我就是要告訴你你的經濟作為現在和你編出來的預算是不一樣的我要請你希望你依照當初的經濟作為去做檢討好以上質詢謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9367.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9381.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
好 謝謝 副部長請回接下來請黃秀安黃委員來做詢問謝謝主席 我們請部長有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9389.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9408.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
部長好 部長我記得在今年的6月份我有曾經針對長榮在2019年罷工的事件這個工會跟長榮公司的一個訴訟長達6年我在今年6月份的時候那時候有詢問過我們部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9410.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9439.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
那我今天想要講的就是說其實工會在這個訴訟當中這個12名被告當中其實有的就淡出工會那只剩下4位留在工會裡面那其實工會可以替這些員工可以發聲那如果像今天發生這樣的一個事件我不知道就是說因為工會的這個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9441.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9459.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
这个角色如果没了那这些员工受到一些委屈的话那他要向谁来求助那另外我想请教部长就是另外一个就是说我们今年这个三月份长荣航空他有揭露前十大股东 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9460.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9480.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
他的前十大股东是我们的新智劳退基金占了2.05%那名列这个他的这个名列第八名就是说他的股东前十大我们这个新智劳退基金就占了这个第八 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9481.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9502.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我想請教就是說勞動部在2019年的時候我們勞動基金運用局因為那時候工會罷工的事件那時候勞動基金運用局有發函曾經有發函長榮航空就是說要妥善處理勞資爭議當時我想請教就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9509.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9531.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
其實外界會認為用這樣的一個方式只是一個去文一個公文給長榮航空其實就不痛不癢那未來因為我們這個勞退基金其實這個也都是勞工那勞動部應該也要站在勞工的立場就是說未來我們勞動基金要投資的企業 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9533.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9542.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
你們是不是也要把這個勞動指標也要列為你們一個非常重要的一個項目是不是請部長回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9543.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9567.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
好跟委員說明那個其實因為委員的關心所以我們也去查了一下這個我們勞動基金裡面在長榮航空的部分那就我們自營的部分因為勞動基金其實有分自營跟代鈔的部分那自營的部分其實是沒有長榮航空的股票那持有長榮航空其實比較是委外投信的代鈔的部分那大概佔比是1.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9570.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9596.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
那当然我们这边会是请基金局继续还是要秉持一个专业跟永续现在大家也很强调ESG的概念来适时的来采取相关的作为所以我这边是不是可以请部长就是针对我们这个劳退基金如果要投资要投资什么样的项目不只当然是要看绩效那个绩效也是这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9597.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9618.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
這個目標之一那另外就是說我們的這個勞動指標這個部分我覺得應該也要列為你們未來要投資你們如果是自操或者是代操的話應該也要列為你們的這個項目之一跟文說明其實我在上任後我有請我們的基金局那應該要參考國際上面很多基金的投資 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9619.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9644.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
因為確實現在其實國際上面大家也很重視所謂的永續在投資的標的上面很重視它的永續性來參考國際上面的一些做法那是不是我們可以有一些更精進的空間那我也請我們基金局去做這方面的檢視所以你們現在什麼時候可以有一個比較具體的這種做法我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9646.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9664.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
我們大概給我們大概一個月的時間好不好那我請我們經營局那來出具一個相關做法的審視的報告來讓我們參考另外部長我接下來我想請教就是說我們早晚今天排這樣的一個這個討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9666.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9695.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
那當然就是說我們這個今天是一個這個空服員那如果萬一是機師的話如果今天是機師的話他整個身體狀況不好可能身體不適那會不會影響到非安所以我也希望就是說勞動部針對這一部分真的也要這個介入去調查是不是也可以請部長這邊做一個回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9706.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9721.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
跟委員報告我想機師因為是直接執行操作這個飛機的駕駛員所以如果一旦他有身體狀況不佳其實他一定會直接執行相關的一些處理作業例如直接轉降或者是折返等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9722.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9744.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
那因為後面的空服組員的部分因為我們有依AOR來講有一個最低派遣的規定依這個案例來講如果依安全規定來講他是要派遣8個人那這架飛機配置了12個人所以他在如果在執勤的時候他有表達他的身體狀況不適合等等事實上這個事務長等等是可以來調整他的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9744.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9771.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
讓他去做進行休息的所以我覺得就是說這個事件讓社會大眾大家都非常的關心尤其是長榮航空大家會覺得說長期好像對我們的勞工爭議不斷所以我也希望說勞動部或者是我們民航局這邊針對這部分應該也要再去多加的去關心 去了解也要去調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9772.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9792.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
另外我想請教部長其實我們的職業安全衛生法第一條的內容它就是說為防止職業災害保障工作者安全及健康所以訂定職業安全衛生法這個是在第一條的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9793.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9814.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
那我想請教就是說就像我們這個這個勞退基金投資投資這個長榮航空或者是未來我們是不是也可以要求就是說勞動部要求或者是跨部會的一個討論就是說金管會可以將這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9817.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9840.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
上市櫃公司他們原本的這個永續經營或者是他們的永續報告書裡面是不是也要納入就是員工的待遇或者是員工的工作的環境就是說永續經營或社會責任也要納進去是不是那個部長是不是針對這一部分未來你們也可以跟金管會這邊來做一個要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9840.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9854.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
跟穩說明其實這部分已經放進去了其實這個員工的包括員工的待遇跟一些處境那其實現在包括員工的人身安全那這其實已經放入到這個114年的這個治理評鑑的指標裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9858.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9874.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
114年所以是今年對今年放進去對所以那目前今年放進去那長榮航空他的那個我希望說未來就是說這些原則上這些上市櫃公司應該要自己以身作者 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9874.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9890.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
所有投資人他當然是要這個投資效益那另外一方面他也希望這家公司是永續經營那如果說這家公司能夠永續經營其實很重要就是員工的工作環境工作待遇 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9891.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9916.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
讓這些員工能夠穩定其實這家公司才能夠永續經營所以我希望就是說勞動部跟經管會這邊針對這部分其實我們應該也要去落實應該要去落實我不知道說你們有沒有什麼樣的機制可以去看說到底它這個商事櫃公司的永續報告未來它有沒有落實去做或者是把這個呈現出來你們要怎麼去集合 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9917.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9933.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
我们其实因为这是今年114年其实把它放进这个指标所以明年之后我想我们可以来检视而且这不止我们检视这是要社会一起来整体检视也包括投资人一起来检视那在这里面是不是能够对于 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9934.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9952.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
公司有更多的社會的壓力投資方的壓力然後希望公司能夠更做本質性的改善這部分當然這也是為什麼其實我們也跟很積極跟金管會來聯繫希望能夠把這個關於相關的這永續報告署名放入相對應的這個指標 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9954.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9972.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那其實我們現在跟金管會的討論其實也不只是在員工的人身安全可能未來也會包括其實很多像友善家庭照顧的職場的一些指標我們都希望未來能夠在永續報告書裡面更能夠凸顯這也能夠比較方便大家做比較專業的檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9973.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10002.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
好 我希望就是說勞動部你是站在這個勞工的立場保護勞工的這樣子的一個機關所以未來不論是這個上市櫃公司或者是一般的這個企業希望也是能夠針對勞工的這個部分能夠更加的用心因為我們看到長榮航空這樣連續幾次其實大家對這個企業形象我是覺得它的企業形象是已經受損了 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10003.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10024.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
那我當然我不知道說他們公司自己是本身是怎麼想的那我也希望就是說勞動部針對這一部分既然一而再再而三有發生這樣的一個狀況其實我覺得說勞動部針對這些時常發生有一些勞資爭議的這些公司我覺得你們應該也要更加去注意好不好好謝謝好謝謝黃委員謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10046.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10063.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
好 下一位我們請劉建國委員好 謝主席 有請黃部長 民安局局長 黃正思市長 易思思好 黃正思 易思思 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10065.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10079.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
好 部長早我今天從早上聽到現在直接了當的講長榮的問題我看到有幾個盲點我覺得越聽越奇怪然後越看也越奇怪這個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10080.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10102.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
空勤服務員應該不同於一般的勞工嘛這大家都有共識他在空氣上他是屬於一個很特殊的這樣的一個環境所以對於這樣的人員的要求SOP啦 也就是說標準作業流程都有很高的標準並不是他非常高就要高標準他確實就是必須要更高標準來做相關的一些規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10103.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10131.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
交通部的報告中有提到班機上有機組人員身體不適機上有調整組員任務但未有睡眠記錄等一下請局長回答覆全程並未通報機長或啟動衛星醫療系統也沒有廣播尋求機上醫師聯繫救護車緊急送醫等等到飛航任務結束後 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10131.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10155.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
又位於在這個組員報告中註記這個組員有身體不適之情形也就是說機組人員在身體不適已經有調整這個任務的情況之下表示當事人都已經非常不舒服囉無法正常的這個來執勤 執務的狀況之下但好像什麼該做SOP通通沒有做是不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10157.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10177.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
跟委員報告因為我們昨天就是派同仁親自去長榮瞭解那確實如果說機組員在飛機上有身體不適的話那因為這個是空服的組員所以他並沒有直接涉及到飛安剛剛我們講的我不是談飛安我是談他整個這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10178.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10203.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
對 我們會建議就是說這個部分應該要註記這個有利於這個公司對於組員的一個健康管理後面的關懷的處理不是只有後面關懷的處理嘛 應該它整個該註記就要註記 該記錄就是要記錄嘛對不對它都沒有註記 它都沒有記錄那基本上民航局交通部可以做怎樣的一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10204.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10232.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
我們這邊就是還在跟長榮這邊請他把細部調查出來就是說他這個部分應該是要註記然後我們會請他檢討那如果有違反相關規定的話我們會以民航法來處理好 謝謝部長你有聽到嗎我們要遭到勞檢嘛那目前交通部初期有針對這個部分結果他該做的SOP通通沒有做的情況之下勞動部這邊可以做怎樣處理因為這部分應該比較是依照民航局這邊AOR的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10233.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10253.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
這部分應該是依照他們AOR的規定那他比較不是在我們的勞動法規上面的要求可是我們還是會針對我們勞動法規的部分來去做現在是在做跟這些相關的組員在要做訪談的安排現在應該是在這個安排的階段那也包括跟工會的訪談 對 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10255.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10278.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我是想說交通部已經有把初步的這樣的一個調查先出來嘛對不對當然還是必須要再更詳細一點更深入一點的相關的一些調查的一個範疇跟認定但我覺得勞動部既然已經要啟動專案勞警應該是可以一併來做相關的處置這第一點第二點這個報導這是根據報告報導他是這麼講我們有三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10285.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10306.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
輪流詢問那位學姊要不要背他但因為他身體已經達到有一點無法控制的程度所以太害怕他太害怕跌倒以至於不敢讓我們背直言見狀例詢問地警是我能叫救護車不過地警回應可以 要的話可以馬上叫他們還在去徵詢CP的意見那CP則回應是可以啊但他知道救護車要自費嗎確定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10310.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10323.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
那學姊聽後就當事人聽後立即表示我有保險但CP再次提醒那要次會喔文莫也特別註記以上是我的噩夢這誰可以答覆我這個你沒有去調查嗎有事實嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10332.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10360.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這狀況我們當然現在就是要透過訪談再一次的確認是不是這樣的狀況明航局知道這個事情嗎明航局知道這個事情嗎有去double check嗎我們是初步知道就是沒有叫救護車可是訪談的部分我們會配合勞動部我是說這一段這一段有有有有詢問過嗎有調查過嗎這個部分就是因為勞動部去的時候他有說他們會進一步訪談那我們也考慮到說對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10362.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10381.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
勞動部去說他會進一步緩談所以這個範疇裡面到底是勞動部還是民航局我為什麼請兩兆起來就是想不要說這個部分是民航局在調查這個部分好像又不是又是勞動部可以調查然後現在在這個地方這個地方到底是你民航局還是你勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10383.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10406.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
委員其實我覺得都不用分綿羊局跟勞動部啦其實這就是應該一起把所有現場的狀況跟經歷什麼東西給釐清啦那當然綿羊局這邊有他們的所管的法規我們有我們所管的法規可是我認為其實就是應該一起把這事情釐清啦我覺得這比較能夠符合社會的期待啦我就是不想這樣分嘛但是這樣垂尋起來就會有這樣的差異嘛對不對你知道我後面還在講什麼嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10408.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10433.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我跟你們淘機有確認過機場救護車車輛雖然有收費但只要是緊急救護使用仍然是免費對不對好 即便要付費也不是這個員工要付的費用這是基本認知啊怎麼會沒有人知道怎麼CP會講這樣的回應這個不你有調查嗎然後整個基礎內在執行或訓練中 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10435.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10461.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我覺得就是沒有完整的落實嘛 不然怎麼會機組人員掌握整個飛機的安全 勞動部 健康部可以容許這樣的事情發生我也不分啊 就你們兩個單位為什麼可以讓這種事情發生然後再來 機組人員 尤其是機組人員共同指出的請病假問題只要請病假 績效就會墊底 甚至於假日忘日請假扣分也會加重 公視用績效來讓員工不敢請假 是我這個事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10463.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10482.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
是否有這個事情我不會分我請教勞動部 請教交通部還是勞動部 交通部 交通部 勞動部就是不知不覺已經很久了我們現在確實看到他的請假的規則應該是請假的規則裡面其實是有把這個請假來作為他其實獎懲的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10484.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10496.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
我在這邊具體要求希望勞動部交通部一週內這個不需要到什麼兩個週還是一個月一週內就是把長榮內部的血汗勞動問題還有幫剛剛媒體這個報導如果是屬實的話相關的訓練執行的這個樣態狀態整個報告一週內提到本委員會給委員會來做說明可不可以好我們盡量 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10511.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10532.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
我在搜尋勞動部的系統發現2022年期間長榮航空共備儲分是24次總金額已經達到423萬最近就是剛剛你們講的最重要的一筆是在今年7月加班超時 招儲分是100萬元而這100萬已經達到了計劃第79條就是2萬以上100萬以下的這個才華上限 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10534.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10562.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我不曉得黃部長可以對這個事情有什麼看法那我再提供另外一個資料就一篇答覆長榮航空光建了114年就剛剛你們講的維護勞基法性別平等工作法公衛法等項目已經被划了288萬元其中工時休息日有關的花款高達270萬元就代表長榮航空長期就存在這種超時加班未給足例價已經是一個結構性的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10565.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10587.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
財報跟相關的資料 長榮航空在2012年2013年的營收都超過2000億以上所以我們剛剛很多人都垂詢嘛這麼大的一個公司 這麼大的一個營收規模這樣的才華真的是不成比喻啊九牛一毛 不吞不養我再提供最後一個訊息給部長看桃園市 我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10589.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10601.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
勞動基準法的事件統一裁判第一次是五萬到第七次才一百萬這個如果是小餐廳小工廠我想沒有問題但遇到這種大企業大規模的營收 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10602.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10627.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
實在是有很大的一個改進檢討的空間在對照113年有幾個維吾爾勞基華的慣患公司南山人壽險裁划8次因業打古有限公司裁划7次中皇航空也不枉多讓裁划7次怎麼在空中揮的都有這些問題的存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10631.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10656.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
好像要用更高的標準來面對這些航空公司不然他們會覺得這不是華青這個是在繳歸會對不對這是顯然他把當成繳歸會的一個依據尤其航空公司是特許的行業是啊而且他在比賽時也被罰了幾次 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10659.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10677.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
好像花不到那個幾次好像不到他們的營業規模的樣子一樣這種心態是很詭異的這種心態是很不足取的這種心態還標榜這樣的航空公司在飛行上有多麼的優越我覺得都非常慚愧啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10680.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10700.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
所以我這邊特別要求勞動部必須啟動勞基法的相關修法對華澤部分必須全面來上修尤其面對大型企業必須要有嚇阻的能力反而不能再讓勞基法的相關的華館成為他們好像在繳歸會這樣的一個慣性部長可以嗎是好最後幾點144 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10703.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10725.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
你們的部長都已經講話了啦齁 陳部長講說在幾萬呎的高空上很難預料會發生什麼事情 也就呼籲民眾登機前要注意自己的身體狀況尤其飛行長達十幾個小時萬一身體出狀況是叫天天不靈 叫地地不靈嘛延長空機主人到底在面對機上不同員工機師或乘客當發生緊急事件要如何面對 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10727.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10756.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
甚至過去有community的這個案例齁可能面對傳染病史基上人員都要如何回應這些應該一絲絲都可以說明得很清楚嘛對不對所以可以跟民進黨舉行公司來做更精進的措施但是今天你們的報告連一個字都沒有你們這個一絲絲的 欸 為何會報告是國建署是國建署剛剛講 我剛剛講的這些基礎人員的執行授訓包含 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10757.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10780.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
機場的這個救護車相關的這樣的訊息連那個CP都不清楚醫師室應該責無旁貸吧醫師室應該有相關的報告出來讓我們知道你們扮演什麼樣的角色吧不是讓國健署丟這種報告出來吧明天可以丟出來吧 可以吧好 謝謝 各位請回 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10784.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10787.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
好謝謝下一位我們請圖圈級委員好謝謝主席那請我們勞動部我們洪聖漢部長還有我們調評師我們黃師長還有勞動法務司黃師長來有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10815.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10816.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
土耳好好 部長請問一下那針對我們長榮航空 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10829.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10854.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
針對長榮航空空服員離世那也讓我們社會大眾重新開始認識我們航空產業的職場問題那我們也看到在前天我們的前立委邱顯智有復讀而且指控直航要求空服員這個空服員其實他已經在榮總有開立診斷證明那醫生也建議他 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10855.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10875.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
多休息 暫時不適合做地勤的工作可是這華航還是要求他回去桃園機場做這地勤的工作那請問一下我們調平司我們的司長還有我們勞動法務司的司長請問一下這僱主這樣的行為有沒有強迫勞動的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10877.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10897.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
跟委員報告這個個案裡面基本上之前我們有瞭解他其實在質災期間質災的工商病假這個部分是沒有爭議那現在的爭議是針對醫主上面是不是他可以復職的這個部分那雙方其實正在協商因為有不同的這個專業醫師提出來的專業意見有所差異 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10901.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10926.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
那我們子安署這邊也有協助那這個部分其實我們會建議這個我們其實也有建議公司要跟員工好好的協商因為他這個部分的工商病假有請了一段時間那基本上如果他雙方這個專業的醫主證明是他需要再復健需要再醫療他其實工商病假是需要持續的 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10927.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10945.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
好 那我也希望我做一點說明這個植栽的空服員其實我之前也有親自探望那我也有請同仁持續的協助那這個空服員當然有跟我們表達其實公司在工商病假的請假的這個程序上面比較久 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10947.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10972.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
那也有一些自費的項目那因為這個團保的給付沒有認所以公司不願意負擔那這部分我其實也已經請治安署去跟華航公司談那目前的確公司在這方面接觸下來是比較消極的所以我10月7號對不對上禮拜治安署有再一次打電話給華航那告知 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10974.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10989.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
如果是本部認可的職業醫學的醫師的話那開立在有這個休養期間的診斷證明書那就應該要依照這個如果勞工是依照規定來申請工商病假的話就應該盡速的來給工商病假 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10989.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
11009.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我们上一代其实有再一次跟公司表达这个立场对 所以我说因为现在刚好也发生长榮航空这个情势所以我们希望像这一类的情势劳动部还是要主动介入调查不要等到事情发生再来亡羊补牢而且我们也知道最近我们自行车大厂 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
11009.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
11032.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
也因為涉及強迫勞動的情勢而且被美國海關扣留禁書所以這一部分我們還是要多注意你看這影響的層面其實是很大連這個美國海關針對強迫勞動的情形他都給他扣留禁書所以這希望部長針對這一方面還是多幫我們關心來了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
11033.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
11060.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
好 那我们就回到今天针对我们航空业职场健康的主题那我们前空服员职业工会的秘书长刘家伟他有发文揭露林林家伟 对 林家伟对 抱歉林家伟那他说这个长荣航空在短短的一年之内就违反这个性贫法针对申请 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
11061.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
11086.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
生理假 家庭照顾假的劳工进行不利的处分那我们也看得到针对我们劳动部提供的我们劳动法令事业单位查询系统在这四年内我们发现我们两大航空的巨头在违反性贫法 工会法劳基法 职安法这一部分这四年内各发生了23件 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
11088.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11114.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
25件所以我們可以知道我們兩大的航空巨頭現在看起來是我們違反勞動法規的大戶那針對這樣的情形不知道部長有沒有掌握有所以這部分情形看4年內就發生那麼多所以表示他們針對這部分你看4年內就發生那麼多那我覺得對我們航空業這個巨頭這個指標我覺得這應該勞動部應該多多嚴格的監督才對當然 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11120.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11143.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那而且針對這部分那我請問一下部長我們針對促進性別工作平等還有懷孕婦女的母性照顧以及創造育嬰育兒的友善工作環境因應少子化危機現在也是我們勞動部跟衛福部這兩大機關我們近年來大力宣傳的重要政策對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11144.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11167.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
不只是宣傳 我們都希望能夠做得更好更到位對啊 那居然是我們重要的政策方向那為什麼我們長榮航空你看還有包括華航那這公然大力走我們政策倒車的部分那難道部長針對這部分沒有強烈的去了解去關心 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11169.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11195.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
其實航空業其實他女性的員工的比例不低那跟這些性工法相關的不管是孕流值或生理價或家照價相關的其實的確我們認為這應該是航空業接下來應該要特別注意跟改善的部分依照現在目前這個不管是長榮也好或者是華航也好這些相關被裁罰的紀錄來說我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11198.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11223.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
這不太符合國人對於他們這個社會責任的期待對啊 所以因為今天發生長榮航空空服員這個事情我們大家才重視到你看 所以你看他們這兩大航空巨頭其實你看這四年內其實他們就違反這麼多勞動法規的規定所以其實因為發生這以後我們大家才注意到所以其實他們這算是長期的累犯 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11225.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11234.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
而且看一下部長你看一下我們提供的這一部分這個我看剛剛王玉敏委員跟劉建國委員都有提到針對這個他們違反 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11237.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11260.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
性平法這些等等開罰這些紀錄你看他都是罰最低的金額那根據我們違反勞動法規的裁罰基準第一次罰最低那累犯第二次第三次他還是這樣子罰最低的金額嗎目前看起來的確因為這個是台灣市勞動省區在開罰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11264.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11288.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那我們會來跟台灣市勞檢局包括我們找民航局一起啦那特別針對比方像航空業那台灣市勞檢局有定一個他們的一個裁罰的基準剛剛其實前面的委員有秀出來那相對於像這樣子的這麼大型的企業是不是要用同一個基準還是是應該要有更加嚇阻力的裁罰的方法我認為這事情我們會跟 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11289.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11310.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
包括民航局跟台湾税务检局一起来我觉得来讨论怎么样把合足率可以提高对 所以部长你要知道其实它本身这个大企业就像刚刚闻刘委员也有提到其实这么大的企业它财阀这个金额对他们来讲其实可能不痛不痒而且财阀的基准应该是正是越阀越重你看它这个累贩 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11312.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11328.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
這個短短的時間內就犯了七件然後而且七件每次都還是罰最低的金額你罰高的金額都未必對他有遏止的效果更何況還是才罰最低所以這一部分我希望勞動部能夠掌握來去了解一下好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11330.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11343.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
希望部長 這個事情已經發生了我們希望針對這一部分還是要來去重視針對這一部分是不是因為這樣子的裁罰對他們完全產生不了這個嚇阻的效果好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11344.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11363.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
好 那還有針對本席在6月18號有質詢我們部長針對新制教昭那時候我們有講他因為現在新制教昭是14天那勞動部是勞工的主管機關那站在勞工的權益來講他這14天 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11364.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11387.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
之後有可能馬上接連著上班的問題而且有可能連續上20幾天就是14天上完馬上上班有可能等於連續上20幾天的班當時也有請勞動部針對這部分去了解請跟國防部來溝通可是後來我看國防部發給桃園市產業總工會6月25號的回文 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11390.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11406.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
國防部說教召結束訓練都在週五的下午16點隔日即為國定例假日請教部長我們國家的勞動法規有規定所謂的國定例假日嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11409.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11434.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
我們沒有明定例假一定要在禮拜六或禮拜天所以國防部這個回文規定他的意思是說到週五14天上完馬上就是六日放假但是他未必六日放假有可能就像我講他14天上完馬上接連就上七天他可能連續上21天的班所以針對這一部分我們全台灣一千多萬的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11435.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11449.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
那而且我們並不是國定例假日所以這部分是不是國防部對於我們勞工的出勤的實際的狀況認知是不清楚的那勞動部針對這部分有跟國防部好好溝通協調嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11451.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11478.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
因為這個文我們沒有拿到對 這上次我有質詢那我下次我說這個國防部的這個回文我們沒有拿到所以我現在就是讓部長知道這件事情因為當初是我們在質詢的時候請我們勞動部來協助所以是不是勞動部要跟國防部來溝通一下因為我們當初就講你這14天再接著上班有可能它是連續上20幾天的班 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11479.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11489.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
我們可以來跟國防部來了解一下那我們是建議啦其實居然他這個我們可以知道我們新制這個教招 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11490.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11513.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
其實是為了加強這個訓練強度那國家要求全國民眾配合那當然包含了僱主還有這個受僱的勞工那針對這一部分我們是那時候就是建議14天工假之外是不是給他再加一天等於15天的工假那對於我們要照顧 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11514.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11535.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
我們的勞工也要減輕雇主的負擔當然我知道說我們全數有列報薪資費用之外還可以薪資加成150%的減除這個規定那我覺得這個部分可能誘因還是不足那為了照顧勞工也保障雇主的權益我們建議這個薪資 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11538.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11563.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
申報減稅加成部分是不是可以增加甚至加看針對這一天的部分是不是可以加到300%的部分不然你這14天他有可能連續就像我們講因為你沒有給他這一天他有可能因為法規上沒有強制國定立假日勞工有可能14天的薪資交召再加上馬上回到工作崗位他可能連續上班是20幾天 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11565.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11574.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
跟委員說明 因為剛剛委員講到比較減稅的部分可能會是財政部或其他部會的權責但是因為委員其實已經質詢過幾次的這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11576.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11597.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
那我們第一個我們會來跟國防部再來了解一下他們這裡面的一些想法跟考慮啦對 當然我希望我們整個配套去做好並不是說無限上綱讓雇主去承擔這14天又再加一天變15天的工價但是我們擔心的是勞工的部分有可能因為這樣子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11599.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11615.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
心智教召再加上馬上回到工作崗位有可能會造成過勞連續上班二十幾天的問題那當然我希望勞動部跟國防部甚至我們的稅捐單位能夠溝通協調來重視這個問題好 謝謝好 這部分請我們勞動部再多幫忙協調溝通好 謝謝部長好 謝謝土偉 謝謝部長請回接下來請林書文來做詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11635.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11638.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
好謝謝主席是不是請我們洪部長來有請部長林委員好部長今天的這個修法我是曾經在這個新聞媒體上看到一個報導這樣子的就是說一個子公司他的等於是 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11666.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11685.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
主管 最高主管他涉及霸凌那他們子公司也成立了一個不法侵害的調查小組也有外聘的委員就照我們勞動部的規定然後有一個調查報告出來了那也確認了這個霸凌了 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11685.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11712.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
那我今天要請問你如果這樣的霸凌案要處分就送到母公司母公司以這個董事會的決議對於調查報告認為這個程序有瑕疵母公司要自己要再去調查然後或者是要修正子公司的這個調查報告或者是直接就 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11714.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11742.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
決議不予處分你覺得在現在的修法的機制或現行的法律架構裡面有這樣的一個爭議的解決的機制嗎跟委員說明的確就是在因為現行的它其實比較是在不法侵害的架構下面來處理這些事情所以因為它在程序上的規範並沒有那麼清楚所以可能會產生像這樣的事情但我們現在要修法了我現在還是在問你同樣的事情在修法過後有解決的機制嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11748.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11768.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
子公司是不是一個獨立的法人他獨立的法人調查報告出來他的母公司也是一個獨立的法人可是他們母公司的董事會可以否定掉子公司的調查報告介入子公司的調查報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11769.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11794.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
然後這個介入人事的懲處這樣子是可以的嗎有解決的機制的嗎就現在我們在設計這個機制來說我們這個子公司我們就把它當作是一個獨立的法人他的調查只要他的程序完備做出來的結果就應該就按照這個結果來處理讓母公司可以以董事會的決議否定掉這一份子公司的調查報告嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11797.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11822.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
那母公司可以認定調查有瑕疵嗎我們沒有瑕疵是地方政府來的瑕疵是如果程序上有瑕疵是要由勞工去用39條然後來請地方主管機關來認定不是母公司自己認定的現在是被認為涉及不法侵害的人主管還有母公司認為有瑕疵 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11823.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11851.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
那因為他已經調查報告了然後這個勞工受僱者也確認這個調查報告的調查是事實他認為他被霸凌了調查報告也是這樣子了那母公司可以這樣子處理嗎程序上有沒有瑕疵的認定其實應該是要由地方的勞檢單位來或者是勞檢的主管機關來去做認定把這一個調查報告擱置了那要怎麼處理有什麼解決機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11855.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11870.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
我在講的是雖然是我從媒體上看的報導但我覺得這樣的可能性存不存在存在啊母公司擁有子公司的人事決定權可是當子公司要做出懲處的時候母公司不同意 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11872.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11892.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
這個事情在你在修法也都沒有談到這個事情今天沒有辦法解決沒關係你們回去好好思考我今天不是要談這個我其實今天大家都談很多了我要提醒你另外一個議題就是隨著全球電動車還有儲能市場的產業的發展鋰電池製造業正面臨的產能擴張還有安全管控的雙重的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11902.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11916.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那今年的7月14號高雄的小港三元能源鋰電池工廠發生火災爆炸而且很嚴重的造成了15個人的受傷其中有12名員工3名消防員 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11917.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11943.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
而三元能源科技公司它自己也自主調查初步判斷事故是指向多重系統的異常和事件疊加的情況包括不明的高溫熱源流流經靜置區引發電池噴發設備自動消防系統未能及時有效啟動以及後續的電力中斷導致廠區的消防系統失效 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11944.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11971.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
那我們現在跟你討論這個是因為以三元能源科技高雄廠這個火災爆炸事件為例我要請教你這個鋰電池工廠鋰電池製造他有沒有列管在勞動檢查法第26條規定所謂的需要做出這個製程安全評估報告5年要做一次然後要有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11974.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11994.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
風險比較高風險的風險評估的責任那他有在這個甲乙類工作場所以及丙類工作所及的這個優先管理化學品超過報備臨界的事業單位的這一些管制的範圍裡面然後列管嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11995.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
12015.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
根本說沒有就三元能源這個案例來說目前是沒有被放進納管的範圍但是我們接下來因為今天我們談的是治安法的修法但我們預計應該也許在11月或12月我們會提出一個更完整的減災計劃但願如此為什麼這麼說呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
12018.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
12036.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
因为你们职安署在我们办公室询问这个事情的时候你们职安署是这样回复我们的他说锂电池目前并非甲乙丙类因为制造过程中没有管制物品锂电池之所以容易爆炸是在使用阶段 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
12037.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
12051.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
過度充電 過度放電或者是外部損傷以及電解液儲存不當那鋰電池在製造過程其實是低風險的而且是成品使用中才是爆炸的高風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
12052.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
12067.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
你們治安署白紙寫黑字這樣回覆我們辦公室那跟你剛剛講的完全是顛倒的在這種狀況裡面我們看到他們公司自主的這個報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
12068.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12084.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
起火云就写到人为操作或机械异常导致瑕疵半成品进入化成半成品常温静置区酿灾所以他们认为可能火灾就是生产流程中自动外观检查制成 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12085.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12107.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
因故轉成人工目視本來是自動化的檢查變成人工目視那因為人員沒有遵循完整的SOP造成檢查過程發生碰撞或瑕疵未被檢出第二個於自動化流程機械設備因故發生異常造成移轉電芯半成品位置過程發生碰撞造成瑕疵未被檢出 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12108.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12124.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
所以這種狀況裡面請問部長你們公文回覆林淑芬辦公室的都在講製程的風險太低了然後呢都是在使用的過程才容易有這個風險才是爆炸的高風險使用過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12124.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12140.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
那剛剛講三原三原你們在講製造過程的定義是什麼從三原爆炸的新聞內容來看他們自己的報告這個是使用階段還是製造製成的階段 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12142.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12157.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
就工廠來說當然是製程的階段那你們說低風險不納管跟委員報告其實我們本來就有其實這幾個月我們一直在跟治安署在檢討你們剛回覆我們你們剛回覆林淑芬辦公室你們沒有要納管剛剛才回覆白紙寫黑字 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12164.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12188.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
我們來把這些相關的案例現在立委沒有質詢的話沒有這個案子的話我想你們還是不會納管而且你們是不是會要求一定規模的理工池電廠都要比照緊急應變措施這個技術指引規定還要不是只有申報五年報一次的製程評估報告還要有定期辦理緊急應變的演練 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12191.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12209.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
針對現場作業的人員的應變能力安全訓練也要建立在定期的演練的制度特別是一定規模以上存放大量電池的場區更應該要落實人員訓練和演練的訓練確保在事故發生的時候能夠及時應變為什麼我們這麼講 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12211.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12232.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
因為當天的確是很好運 起火的當天是因為大夜班的員工發現半成品區在冒煙如果沒有及時發現 後果不堪設想而且三原是台泥集團向下的 它是最高規的安全標準在台灣而言 它有三道消防和監測系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12234.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12254.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
在廠區內部部署了33萬顆溫度感測器還有17000多顆的煙霧感測器而且採取多階段的防災應變設計包含導入日本的片鋼製片所的整合化整合式的化成系統 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12255.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12269.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
次之高達30億元的監測安全系統但是在這一次的爆炸當中這個30億元的所有的系統的運作都沒有達成預期的效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12270.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12296.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
導致火勢迅速蔓延到備援的電源和關鍵設備所以這麼有能力的財團大公司這麼高度專業的資本規模這麼好的子公司都在製程中發現爆炸引發大火火勢歷經27個小時才撲滅而且還要持續灌水這麼多天 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12297.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12325.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
而且有15個人受傷可見這個產業它的潛在風險這麼高如果不是台擬集團是規模比較小的管理資源更有限的遇到這種狀況 我肯定講它的傷亡 它的環境衝擊會更嚴重對周遭社區的居民健康的威脅更是難以想像所以你們如果沒有我在這裡講 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12326.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12338.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
你們的治安署白紙寫黑字還在講離電池工廠並不是在製程裡面高風險所有的風險高風險都是在使用階段這種話還講得出來我今天講 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12342.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12364.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
鋰電池的製造的結構性挑戰他當然產能升級的同時要做好風險看管而且這是未來產業不是只有鋰電池而且還有所謂的除能產業除能產業正要大大的發展了所以這種狀況裡面這種事故如果一發生他是 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12365.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12390.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
還多重保護失效的結果在這種持續要優化保護層的風險管理的時候包括要防爆管理要完善VOC氣體偵測 排風系統的整合配置異常狀況下的自動連鎖停機或啟動通風壓制的措施所以它的火災有三大風險難預測 難撲滅 毒性高 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12396.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12420.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
鋰電池工廠 儲能工廠不要忘了2月今年在深坑鋰電池這個倉庫就爆炸了影響有多大不要再講到說美國的一個儲能工廠在今年1月還是什麼時候他他爆炸是疏散1500人然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12421.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12440.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
在這種狀況裡面鋰電池熱失控有三種成因內部材料缺陷外部當然受到穿刺擠壓高溫環境或是使用的過程操作不當所以它並不是只有在使用階段它在製成的階段風險就非常高 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12441.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12453.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
部長你有沒有聽過去年南韓京畿道鋰亞電池工廠因為存放了3.5萬顆鋰電池你知道他們多少人死傷嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12455.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12483.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
我有關注這個事件但是我沒有記得他我來舉這個例子跟你分享提醒你在一塊裡電池起火以後一個然後就急劇的擴散引發連續的爆炸當時有67個人在產線上然後電池在短時間歷經三次爆炸42秒就吞沒了工廠最後23人死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12485.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12512.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
8個受傷這是南韓最嚴重的化工事故之一在去年才剛發生而你們的治安署還告訴我們說製程風險很低你知道當時的南韓水源地方法院在今年9月23號依照違反重大災害處罰法派遣法勤勞積存法判處公司的負責人 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12513.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12522.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
很重 15年的有期徒刑而我們今天在講三元高雄的鋰電廠這個爆炸案以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12523.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12544.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
高雄市政府他就馬上去清查有多少組裝有多少生產勞動部你們對於鋁電池上中下游相關產業以及風險的評估在哪裡如果你們暫時可以回覆林淑芬辦公室說製程風險很低那我就要替你們擔心了 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12545.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12569.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
甚至很多民眾連他自己他自己的風險都不知道他隔壁做電池的有沒有風險他也不知道沒有災害的意識所以在這種狀況裡面勞動部有沒有必要跟相關的部會整合治安法 災防法 獨管法我們是不是應該要讓民眾有知的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12573.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12585.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
他的風險高還是低製程風險跟我們說明其實已經有這樣的案例發生其實我們當然很難去說他是低的風險從韓國來看42秒就全場燒起來了20幾人死亡案例已經發生在眼前 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12591.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12607.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
那所以接下來在我們的這個擴大的強化的減災計畫裡面其中有一項就會是擴大納管高風險的這些生產上面的物質我知道但是如果今天沒有立委質詢你們是不是就沒有納管 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12608.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12633.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
當然我覺得在回覆上面我覺得我們可以做一些檢討那其實只要是高風險的部分該納管的納管尤其這是一個大的公司那這也是包括電池產業其實也是大家非常關注的產業整個產業不是只有這一個公司整個產業包括除能產業台灣也剛起步要大大的發展因為這裡面我們知道你知道鋰電池的風險製造的風險我非常非常清楚因為我對能源產業很清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12634.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12649.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
所以他們如果沒有辦法在這個階段把安全風險的管理讓我再提醒你燃燒的鋰電池可能會產生氟化氫本類當火警發生的時候對周遭的空氣氟化氫本類這是多麼可怕的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12651.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12666.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
難怪會有20幾個人馬上死亡所以我們今天在講說你們現在不要講說納管納到高風險的管制裡面現在你們對於鋰電池的製造或者是除能產業的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12668.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12687.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
你的安全規範到目前沒有現在製程安全規範完全沒有強制性規範零你們只有在儲能產業上有建議的指引但是呢在於安全的法律的規範上完全是零 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12688.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12716.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
所以由此可知你們治安署對於這一個產業不管是鋰電池或者是純能產業真的是掉以輕心這個部長根本說明比方說以像這樣這麼受指標跟關注的產業我自己是認為我們接下來應該要來跟相關的專家來協助把他們導演PSM就是自身安全管理的系統它直接就是應該是一個自身安全管理系統應該進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12717.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12723.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
那用這個方式其實來做一個更根本性的安全安全管理系統我們現在所訂的可能相當規模相當資本以上規模以下你難道不需要製程安全的規範或是指引嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12733.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12752.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
當然當然但我說就像剛剛以三元或者是像台尼這樣子的規模的企業來說我覺得他們其實應該是更可是台灣的中小企業可能也必須要有一些規範安全規範可是你們現在也沒有任何的安全規範你們可不可以一併檢討當然當然那大概要多久三個月可以嗎三個月好OK謝謝好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12762.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12779.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
接下來請王振旭委員來做詢問好 謝謝主席我們還是麻煩黃部長來 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12790.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12806.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
國防院長 部長你好 不好意思我都沒有時間讓您稍微喘一口氣喝個水不過因為因應這次長榮空服員的憾事大家都覺得非常遺憾因為病是一個年輕的生命 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12807.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12823.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
那也激發了社會對於公司管理的陷入跟合理性的討論早上很多委員都已經有跟你討論這些事情不過還是從制度上我們必須要來做深入的了解從一個個案來看整體的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12823.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12847.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
特別是在勞工請假權益的保障還有禁止不利益待遇的強度跟範圍應該怎麼來做處理這部分部長其實也是專家所以就利用這個機會來跟您做就教我相信大家在每天非常繁忙的工作的同時對於如何能夠有好的這些假期的處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12848.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12867.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
讓他的這個整個身心可以有效的回復是非常重要而且是需要大家一起來關注那身為這個勞動部的這個最大的負責人我相信對於這些勞工的請假應該是非常的關注那針對這個勞動的法規我們也了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12870.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12889.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
在勞工請假過程裡面我們目前有不同的法源的規定包括在性平法上面有針對於生理假等等的有做一些相關的安排尤其在禁止不利益的待遇保障上面其實做了非常強烈的規範要求雇主不得拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12891.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12911.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
還有在這個接受這樣的這個請求的時候不能夠用其他的方式來讓這樣的請假的美意或者是這些假期的美意得到了影響包括說不能夠當作缺勤而影響獎金考積等等這個是我們可以看到性平工作法裡面第4條對21條做了非常完整的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12912.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12927.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
那針對勞基法第3條還有這個請假規則裡面有不同的價別可是呢它這個針對於競逐不利的部分呢它所要求的就沒有那麼高只能要求說不得扣發這個全刑獎金 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12928.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12944.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
那針對於另外的就是以今天這個個案為例他是有生病生病的時候他需要請假的話那目前針對這個勞基法第13條所看到的就是普通傷病假來做調理那這個部分其實目前並沒有任何 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12945.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12974.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
有關你禁止不利益的這些保障的部分只有要求說沒有超過30天的話公知責辦發給這樣的這個請假的這個結果所以針對這樣的問題覺得似乎從制度上面從這個法條上面我們必須要有重新來省思如何能夠讓這個禁止不利益的美意可以落實到未來在各方面的請假或者是有下的時候可以提供更好的一些處理模式 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12974.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12993.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
那我們可以從今年的這個10月10號開始根據目前那位總統在健康台灣推動委員會的指示之下所辦理的一個方式就是針對公務人員他可以根據這個規定來請不管家庭照顧假還有增加一個身心調適假 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12995.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
13012.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
每一個人可以每年三天的這個假期那這個部分的美意就在於這個併入試駕的過程裡面他不需要檢護任何證明機關不得拒絕不得不利的部分這個意思就是說對於禁止不利益的這些處分其實是有達到最高的規格 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
13013.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13027.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
所以相貴來講未來勞動部在這方面能不能夠有參考公務人員新增三天的新興調適價的政策來提供我們的勞工朋友也有相關的可行性 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13028.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13055.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
那當然這個部分可能會有不同的形式比如說這個是要一個新的調試架那還是要從病架裡面去做框出或者是從試架裡面去框出那如果有好的立法技術那這個強度是不是也要如同這個公務人員的保障一樣那到底一年要幾天當然天數少就可以比照公務人員嘛如果天數多相對這個保護強度是比較照有效的調控 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13055.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13081.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
那這部分不知道部長目前有沒有相關的想法根本說沒有的確這關於這一次的事件也引發了社會對於尤其是病假病假其實相關的權益會不會有一些比較制度性的這個阻礙的這個問題那我想我還是表達幾個部分第一個部分是 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13082.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13108.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
如果勞工請病假是被雇主拒絕的話我想這就是直接違反勞基法了那這就是最高最高世界規模如果高違反人數高或者是情節嚴重的話是最高就是150萬那第二個是我們其實也在這段時間也是在檢視比方說我們看到比方說像全勤獎金其實在一些法院的判決裡面其實都已經把它視為是勞工工資的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13109.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13131.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
如果是勞工工資的一部分的話那這個勞工請病假就被沒收整個月的這個全勤獎金其實我們認為這是不合理的狀況所以這部分我們也在研議一些用比較制度性的方式來做保障那針對這部分那至於其他的這個不利現在可能在講不利對待的部分因為不利對待的 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13133.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13155.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
范畴其實蠻大的樣態其實很多那請病假的樣態其實也蠻多的那就其他的部分我想我們也是希望能夠在一個為事情我們的同仁在一個原則然後那這個原則但就是說我們的確是不希望說勞工生病卻要硬撐著不休息這個事情還被 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13157.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13178.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
公司的制度來做制度性的鼓勵這是這個事情我們也不樂見所以在這個概念下面是不是來檢視我們相對應在病假跟現在被認知為不利對待的這個這個權利上面是不是有再多一點調整的空間不要好像變成我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13179.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13192.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
都把這種明明生病到該請病假了卻還硬撐著上班然後變成是一種對企業付出的一個正面的效益或績效其實我覺得這大概不符合社會的期待甚至也可能未來會製造更多的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13194.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13216.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
是的確因為社會整個情況在不同的轉變之下如何能夠針對我們勞工朋友有更友善的一些做法這個是要麻煩部長這邊持續的關注其實從這個個案裡面我們也知道他在這個上期之前因為有一些身體狀況需要臨時請特休等等的狀況其實是對於如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13218.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13231.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
幫助讓他在請假的過程裡面是更為安心的所以剛剛部長也提到範圍跟強度到底要用到哪裡那這個真的是很需要好好的一個了解跟規範那包括未來如果有類似的狀況臨時請特休 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13234.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13250.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
我們知道像空服員他們的工作時間剛好是在其他人有假期要去做出國旅遊或是其他安排的時候他們剛好要出行最多事後如果國人假出行以後的調整等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13251.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13270.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
這個能不能夠也進入到這個這個這樣不利一代的部分可以減到最低還有任何的法定價別是不是都要列入相關的規範這部分可能就是要麻煩部裡面做一些研議那這個研議看能不能在一個月給我們相關的到委員會給相關的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13270.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13299.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
跟網友說明的確比方說像特休那特休當然就是完全要給付工資而且不能也是一樣這個選擇權是完全是在勞工手上只要僱主拒絕的話那這就是就直接違法那剛剛網友講這個狀況或者是講到長榮的狀況那我們會整體的來去做一些評估啦那可是確實我們現在看到長榮的一些狀況我覺得他當然有規範性的問題裡面也有是他們管理文化上面的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13300.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13307.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
那這個管理文化的狀況如果沒有辦法再做一些調整的話其實我們也很擔心類似的狀況會 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13311.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13333.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
會一直有狀況會發生所以這是為什麼我們很希望我們也很支持就是希望公司必須要跟工會真的好好坐下來協商那因為就是應該面對尤其是我們基層的基礎員他很實質的身體上面的安全上面的需求我想這是我們的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13334.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13358.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
是 我相信白宮白夜都有它特別的文化各方面的需求所以這部分就麻煩部裡面持續的來做研議那再過來就是有關於這個目前到底我們有沒有比較完整的數據知道我們這些勞工朋友在使用病假的狀況的調查因為我們發現目前在部裡面有113年勞工生活跟就業狀況調查的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13360.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13387.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
那這份報告只針對於加班還有這個特別休假情形做相關的這個問卷調查去得到每一個勞工他在一年裡面可能在假期上面的運用可是好像沒有病假這個欄位那我們知道現在的這些生活比較緊張或相關的問題所以在未來是不是可以把病假的狀況調查也列為一個每一個年度的這個調查內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13390.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13413.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
因為網友有關心這個事情所以我們有回去看了一下的確現在目前只針對特休那我認為把病假加入到使用狀況調查的一個項目跟欄位裡面我想我們這部分我覺得我們應該是可以來做的好那就麻煩這一部分你能夠把它加強進來麻煩這個部長先回座休息最後一個問題我來請教一下民航局何局長 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13417.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13434.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
如果能夠改善我們這個像今天碰到的這個困境因為我們也知道根據這個AOR第二三一條的規定裡面當這個飛機在飛航之前如果有組員發生這些問題的時候那機長是有權責來做一些處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13438.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13467.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那如果在飛行當中主員因為不管是疲勞疾病或者是相關因素的時候那如果嚴重的影響到執行的權責的能力的時候機長可以終止飛航跟就近於降落做必要的處置這個是我們看到的AOR目前對於主員的這些不管是身體狀況或相關問題的時候機長所做的處置的一些可以一行的規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13468.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13487.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
當然他是有他的職責可是他的專業能不能做這樣的判斷其實是當然除了說他這個機長本身持續去加強這個本質學能以外如何能夠有更好的評估機制我相信這一個案件應該可以給民進黨局這邊交通部這邊做一個參考所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13488.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13516.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
如果能夠改善機前的檢查評估機制這個未來能不能夠在交通部民調局的組織之下召集相關的部會或學會一起來研議包括剛所提到的有關於這個上機前的評估能不能夠更具體機上緊急狀況的處置要有一定的SOP而不是請機長來做一些直接判斷做處置這樣子而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13516.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13543.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
那第三項我們也知道現在MedLink其實是一個很可以引用的一個新的科技那將來有沒有必要把它變成是一個必要的服務的內容還有最後一項AOR的相關規定目前機長的權責跟他的專業之間有沒有必要做相關這些內容的修訂或者是做研議那這部分不知道何局長你的告見如何 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13543.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13570.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
好謝謝委員的提示我想在這個剛剛講到的機前的上機前的檢查那因為我們其實有另外一個條文就是說上機前的如果是民用航空運輸業因為這邊提的是普通航空業那普通航空業我們講的是直升機所以這邊提的就是說直升機他如何去做處理那如果是這個民用航空運輸業就是指長榮華航這一種 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13572.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13595.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
機長的部分有機長的處理那後艙的空服組員的話依照這個相關規定的手冊的話就是由組員相互確認那事務長要做最後的處理上機前的一個檢查那當然這個部分我們也可以再來研議就是說上機前的交互檢查確認組員的身體健康狀況我們可以參考委員的意見再來看看如何來精進他 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13595.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13614.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
那第二個就是說這個有關緊急醫療的處置的部分因為機上的話如果是其實如果是打MareLink這一些其實是會透過空中查詢然後由機組員去做處理那機長是不會去涉及這一些處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13614.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13637.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
那Mainlink的話目前來講它現在確實因為它是一種選擇性的服務就是說由航空公司跟這個去做一個應該是說採買這樣的系統那目前我們來講長榮華航跟新宇都有這樣的一個服務設施那主要是用在長城線因為長城的這個飛行比較遠所以有需要這樣的一個服務設施 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13638.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13664.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
那至於是不是有需要來修訂相關AOA規定的部分我想這個這個案件我們會整體來看整個華航其實主要是在一個執行過程中這個整個通報的機制包含他處理機制包含組員的教育訓練等等那這個部分我們會請競速來做一個檢討好那這個檢討還有研議報告一個月可以給我們中南委員會來做參考好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13668.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13678.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
好 謝謝王委員 謝謝局長 一個月 謝謝委員會在這邊做一個宣告待會諮詢我們到這個羅廷委員選打結束之後先休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13680.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13703.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
到一點給各位用餐因為等一下我們整個這個質詢完畢之後法案的法案的宣讀要兩個多鐘頭所以所以也要讓要讓醫事組人員有用餐的機會然後法案開始進到主條的時候當然是相關的圈子當你留下其他就可以先行離開好不好好那我們會繼續來處理詢問請楊瓊議員來做詢問謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13720.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13731.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
謝謝主席 楊群發言邀請部長邀請部長楊元武安 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13732.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13757.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
非常好 我們還是來討論最近新聞的焦點長榮航空這一個34歲的孫姓空服員這個事件發生讓我們認為在整個過程當中政府的立場跟政府可以怎麼樣的來協助這個是大家非常想聽到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13759.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13774.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
那要求全面的檢討空勤管理的制度跟出勤的一個規範在這一次呢 職災的相關議題當中那工會也特別揭露了在請假 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13775.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13801.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
尤其是請病假在臨時特休那似乎是設有懲罰性的一個規範而且會影響到考級航班的一個排班甚至特定時段加重處分那致使員工雖然表面上是可以請假但是員工是實際上不敢請假所以如果真的是如此的話它就是違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13802.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13828.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
如果真的是如此企業也沒有盡到保護勞工的一個安全健康所以在這邊首先請教部長目前你們調查的進度到底是如何那我們要怎麼樣去保障空服員的員工的一個權益那政府又要怎麼樣的去落實在整個勞檢方面如何的去保障勞工的一個權益請做說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13829.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13854.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
跟姚委員說明 現在當然在前天星期一我們職安署有跟桃園消費檢處有到長榮來去做初步的了解可是外界也都是希望在這事情上面我們不應該只聽公司一方的說法所以我們接下來也會來約訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13855.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13880.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
其實跟這個當事組員當時可能Downtown的班機的組員或者相關的戀愛相關人 包括工會工會本身也希望能夠提到得到確認到底事實是如何然後如何去保障 如何去改進所以本席要請教因為是一個時事議題本席也不希望說大家 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13883.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13900.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
太長的時間去不知政府在做什麼所以我仍舊希望政府在積極的態度跟立場跟動作能夠讓社會大眾去清楚我們當然要主動而且要很積極主動跟積極是本家的請教因為確實要訪談的人會有一些離岸相關的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13905.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13919.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
你們預估大概會多久的時間可以給社會大眾 給工會給我們這一些空服員他們能夠知道一個答案一個方向因為訪談的確需要一點時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13921.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13940.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
當然是要時間所以本席才要請問你你們自己設定的時間點到底會在哪裡讓大家可以知道我覺得相關的訪談第一個因為要看約不約得到因為要看那個約的時間因為有些做任何事情必須要有KPI細節的部分我想不是你在說 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13940.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13946.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
至少是希望兩週吧好不好兩週的時間我們來了解相關該約訪的我們盡量來約訪你剛才說了要積極的態度我們現在得到一個答案就是兩週內 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13958.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13974.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
你會大概有一個方向盡量來約訪有一個方向給社會大眾知道真正的原因以及你政府要怎麼樣去做調整讓我們所有的空服員能夠安心是不是如此就調查跟訪談的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13977.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
14002.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
接下來本席要請教因為這一次的這個職安修正裡頭我們為了要加強建築工程營建過程的一個安全來做把關所以行政院也提出了15條之一的規範要求業主必須在一定規模的這個工程交互設計或施工還有就是設計者 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
14004.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
14029.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
或者是施工者應該在事前實施風險評估消除危害的根源並採行必要的植栽預防設備跟措施但是本席也接到相關包括建築師工會以及有很多的會員他們有所提出他們提出的也就是說目前如果以行政院版本會 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
14032.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
14048.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
這個觸及到相關的法規尤其是在建築師職業的一個實務跟他們權責是有所抵觸的所以本席也希望因為本席今天也提出了15條之一的一個修正動議也已經送到主席台這邊來 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
14049.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14077.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
那本縣也希望在我們在制定任何的一個條文的時候必須要跟相關相關的工會要去好好的去討論因為當你提出的時候政治是會有這樣的一個質疑他們非常負責任但是問題是你在施工的這個期間施工的這個期間那包括甚至還要包括到 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14078.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14101.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
他施工營造業者他所聘請的勞工甚至外籍義工這一些都包含在他的監督規範之內好 沒關係如果我們來看建築師的相關法規是建築師經過業者的需求去設計規範提出建造 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14105.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14121.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
那麼建築師接下來的重點工作是什麼依照我們的法規也就是你必須你必須你必須要嚴格的去執行他所畫出來的圖說到底 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14122.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14134.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
有沒有在營建商的時候他在施工的時候有沒有依照政府所規範他們設計出來政府所認可的建造的時候的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14136.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14156.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
他的圖說要去執行到位要去執行到位所以在建築師公會或者是這個他們也提出提出意見所以他們有提出的相關那本席也提出在我們的條文的第15條之一也就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14158.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14180.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
這個我們必須要提出事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交互規劃設計時應委託勞工安全衛生專業依其工程的特性去分析潛在的施工危害這個是本席以下 這些所提出的15條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
14182.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
14205.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
我要請教部長因為建築師公會有這麼大的一個聲音出來本席首先在你回答之前我希望我們要有這個營建的安全性這個是非常的重要而且這個作品也必須要能夠如實如期的去完成這是我們最終的目標 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
14206.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
14233.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
但是在整個調整的過程當中是否有跟相關執行者去充分討論這是本席非常重視的必須要相關單位好好的去討論能夠達成一個共識這樣子在未來你公布你執行的方案的時候才能夠真正去落實贊不贊同這樣的一個一個過程流程跟方式 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
14234.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
14249.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我跟顏委員說明很清楚也就是你認同是這樣子的一個邏輯我先表達第一個15條之一這一次在我們的修法裡面是非常非常關鍵的條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
14250.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
14268.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
那在這個條文裡面它的責任基本上是框在業主身上的所以可能建築師或者是設計者不用太擔心因為這是框在業主身上但這個條文要表達的是一個工程它在前面的規劃跟設計階段它就要做安全風險的分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
14269.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
14284.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
那比較能夠讓在執行或者是在施作的時候能夠按照這個安全風險分析去做相關的風險管理跟執行因為我們的確看到很多的案例如果在前面的規劃跟設計階段不具有安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
14285.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
14306.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
風險設計的概念的時候有的時候會讓後續的執行非常的困難或者是承擔很大的風險而這個想法跟概念也是現在很多國家它去做這個職安的管理的時候非常重要的部分就是把它有點是它是源頭的溯源在規劃跟設計的階段就把風險管理的部分給規劃好 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
14307.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14322.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
在後續執行跟施工的時候才能夠比較大程度的避免風險這部分很重要可是它的責任是框在業主身上的所以相關的設計者規劃者不用太擔心所以我們的條文應該是我們是從這個角度來去設計這個條文的 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14324.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14352.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
好 謝謝部長你的說辭你請他們不用太 設計者不用去太擔心但是他們現在是擔心的這也就是剛才我跟本席跟你討論的當你要發布一個政策或者是你的調整那你必須跟相關的這個執行者相關的工會好好去討論我們會來跟工會好好說明我們的這個概念這個就是重點因為今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14354.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14372.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
剛剛本席特別問了主席我們今天只處理到第二條所以這個等於是在整個條文裡頭如果歸列是在第六條所以換句話說我們還有一些時間剛剛部長您也承諾會跟工會來做討論我也希望在本席所提出的15條之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14374.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14391.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
能夠得到行政部門的一個同意我們好好的達成這樣的共識讓我們在整個營建部分能夠更加的安全而且職權在相關的法律面它是完整的而且是清楚的 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14392.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14407.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
我們可以在這個逐條的時候那針對這個條文它設計的原意我們可以來做好好的審議討論好好的審議討論這是當然但是您剛才說了會跟工會好好的來討論是 沒問題好好的來討論對不對當然好 加油 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14410.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14438.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
好 謝謝楊詢文委員的發言謝謝部長的答詢報告委員會我們重新宣告在牛許廷委員詢答後休息用餐一點繼續開會下一位我們請林楚英委員林楚英委員不在請羅廷委員自詢發言謝主席有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14440.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14463.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
請換部長各位好部長好部長我們今天討論這一個題目是非常非常的遺憾去年的勞動部今年的長榮去年的謝宜龍今年是長榮部長我再講一次去年勞動部今年是長榮 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14464.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14491.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
去年謝宜龍今年是長榮我想我們要請部長不要忘記自己是因為什麼原因才能夠接任部長勞動部是勞工朋友的大家長請您接任部長就是希望可以處理霸凌的問題而不是讓任何形式的霸凌問題一而再再而三的一直不斷的發生到底是企業的文化還是制度的設計 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14493.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14509.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
難道現在的請假制度這樣的設計不是一種霸凌嗎我想這次職安法的修法我們可以看到對於高風險的行業要求需要有風險評估涵蓋的一個辨識所有潛在的危害 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14510.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14533.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
我們都希望評估危害的這個風險並且能夠依評估的結果採取適當並且有一個預防改善的一個措施這包含建立預防計劃進行風險分級的管理以及定期更新的一個評估報告我要先問一下部長請問一下你認為航空業是不是高風險行業 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14537.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14550.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
要從安全的角度還是從哪個角度都可以 綜合屏幕上因為風險要看是討論是哪種風險不要說非安的風險不然這樣子我更明確跟請教您知道空服員的職務可能引起的職業病嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14552.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14568.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
相關的種類空服員的植物的確他在這個一些肌肉骨骼上面的疾病這部分其實我們也非常關注我想我們可以看到空服員在這個高壓輪班長時間時差然後緊急應變 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14571.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14590.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
沒有健康的管理甚至容易導致過勞睡眠不足免疫力下降慢性病惡化猝死的風險都極高那我要問的是說從您上任到現在到最近這過程當中工會有沒有跟你接觸過或者是反應過 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
14592.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
14604.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
工會當然這段時間其實有些不同的議題有沒有反映過相關的他們的人力上的一些被剝削我跟董事長說明我自己其實親自就訪視過航空業的 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
14609.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
14635.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
基層的員工 對那他們遇到職業病或者是職災的問題我自己親自就訪視過那也跟他們來做了解這樣子我自己就訪視過了好 我還是要希望說您一定要重視這些基層的我們所有的勞工朋友那目前看到這樣的問題我還是要再次的提醒那部長 治安法的健康保護四大計畫請問一下您知道是哪四大嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
14640.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
14663.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
不法侵害不法侵害母性健康保護異常工作負荷過勞預防我想這些四大計畫當中我們要清楚明確知道長榮航空有沒有制定老傑有沒有查就我們知道長榮應該是有制定相關計畫有查到有制定 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
14664.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
14688.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
那職安法23條要求僱主職業安全衛生管理計畫其中含工作環境或作業危害的一個辨識評估控制長榮有沒有做危害評估有沒有落實老建有沒有去看有或沒有沒有看就說沒有沒關係跟委員報告齁那個在檢查的部分安全衛生是一定會看到這部分的危害評估不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
14691.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
14712.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
那個安全衛生管理計劃委員是講那個危害評估的部分是指這一次的檢查嗎這一次檢查或是歷年來的檢查他有沒有制定沒有 我們在107年有發現他有在這個部分沒有做到那個危害的評估這個部分到現在有沒有嘛那這一次的檢查107年不要說嘛 這最近部長上任到現在嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
14716.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
14721.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
這次的檢查因為剛剛部長提到我們還要再進一步去了解會做這部分不像107年你說沒有對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
14725.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
14751.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
剛剛你說的嘛那107年沒有有沒有糾正他要去把他執行我們這部分我們再去了解好不好但通常這麼大的公司他其實應該要有我們也希望他有但107年你說有嘛那你應該要直接給我回應107年糾正以後他應該要有107年的時候沒有他有違反這個但是現在近期我們再把資訊弄清楚這麼多年我們不可能查到他沒有就這樣結束吧一定會輔導他變成要有嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
14752.267 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
14780.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
那所以我應該是聽到你應該要具體的回答我107年沒有但後面幾年我們糾正他完我們現在去確認而不是到現在還要確認我們現在去確認部長我沒有要責備但是我們都在檢討問題探討問題然後希望能夠揪出問題那本案的空服員我們現在雖然是在非執行勤務的時間去病逝但他的病因跟職務是否有相關可否認定是職災這部分勞動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
14783.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
14809.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
這部分會做專業當然這部分我們會做專業的調查但是因為是否職災或是否職業病這大概有一個比較專業的認定也希望說要幫我們重視他們的權益那長榮航空規定空服員若三個月內請假含特休超過三天隔月及上司選班及選假的資格多次請假還需提改善計畫這樣的制度讓員工不敢生病不敢請假形同變相的懲罰請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
14811.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
14821.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
這是否有違反勞基法保障之請假權又將如何防範相關的企業升遷 績效 制度懲處依法請假的員工 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
14823.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
14851.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
跟我們說明 如果航空有拒絕勞工請病假的話這當然就違法勞基法當然是 當然但是他剛剛是說變相懲罰他是用制度讓他們沒辦法去選假還有選班是 因為這部分我們的確現在聽到蠻多機組員都反映這個狀況對所以我們現在的確也在檢討比方尤其是現在大家特別關注病假的部分那是不是有因為請病假而有這些不利的對待的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
14852.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
14877.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
那就像我們當然先做幾個層次第一個層次是我們先看到最多在其他的企業裡面我們不要看到像全勤獎金來作為一個獎懲的這樣子的使用那的確我們做了一些研議跟檢討我們認為勞工請病假不應該就沒收整個月的全勤獎金的這個狀況那這部分我們會來面對全勤獎金這個部分您有所作為嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
14881.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
14905.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
我們會提出一些制度性的保險現在是這個選辦跟選價的一個資格是不是也應該一併列入相關的檢討然後去建議企業甚至是防範企業有這樣子的一個規範因為請併價的樣態蠻多的然後不利被認知為不利對債的樣態比較多所以我們這部分我會請我們的調評師我們相關的業務單位其實來做一個比較綜合性的檢視 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
14907.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
14928.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
另外我要再請問一下因為今天職安法預計就要開始進行逐條雖然是到第二條但是長榮航空相關的一個事件檢討要不要納入這一次職安法的修法內容後續針對院版勞動部會不會提出修正動議這部分您覺得呢哪一個部分長榮航空所引發的事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
14929.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
14942.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
我們在做相關的一個檢討的時候會不會有剛剛所說的選假 選班這些利用制度來漠視這些勞工的請假權然後把它列入到法案裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
14943.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
14972.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
我們現在就像剛剛說針對權情的部分的相關的權利其實我們現在也在研議幾個路徑我們希望能夠有效的保障可是幾個有效的路徑不一定一定是在這一次的修法裡面保障可是我們來會找到一個比較制度性能夠保障的方法 重點要有效那既然召委都已經要進入這樣子的一個豬條討論的時候我覺得如果有機會入法當然是最好的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
14973.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
14987.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
我覺得來看是要處理什麼樣的問題然後當然原本治安法有他的一套治安法的體制然後這個治安法的體制的框架裡面適不適合來做這方面的修訂我覺得這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
14988.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
15014.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
我覺得大家可以來討論我們當然探討討論也是藉由這個機會為其發聲最後30秒我想職場霸凌案依保訓會的規定公務員可向保訓會再申訴勞工卻無法向地方勞動機關再提救濟只能訴諸法院我想部長這樣的制度落差是否剝奪了勞工公平的權益我想勞工向職場申請的這個職場霸凌調查總不能公司自己調查自己吧依專章規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
15016.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
15035.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
職場霸凌的調查小組要外聘委員但多少事業規模以上要外聘委員部長有沒有想法外聘委員的比例要不要超過二分之一外聘委員要不要專家背景外聘委員我們會設定要二分之一我想霸凌的調查案很容易成立但是需要有外聘委員的時候對於這些專家的量能夠不夠勞動部有沒有資料庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
15038.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
15057.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
提供這些企業我們其實現在正在培訓然後希望能夠把這些有資格來做外聘委員的這個人才庫給建立起來第二個剛剛講到地方政府的部分現在並不是沒有跟地方政府的救濟單位其實如果勞工認為企業主在調查的過程裡面有程序上面的為師的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
15058.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
15083.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
其實可以依照職安法39條來邀請地方政府的勞政單位來去做勞檢檢查來去確認程序上面是否合乎法規如果不合乎法規的話也必須重啟調查好 今天主席站起來了那我們就先討論到這邊 謝謝好 謝謝羅廷文的發言謝謝部長的答詢下一位我們請牛旭廷文發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
15087.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
15089.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
謝謝主席 紅部長有請 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
15100.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
15118.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
部長午安 不好意思耽誤大家休息時間我們今天在職業安全衛生法修法裡面本系列有提相關的案子是在第49條提了一個修正案那這個修正案的用意是這樣的我們借用質詢的時間預先做一下討論在逐條的時候我們也希望勞動部可以用一個更開放的心態來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
15119.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
15146.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
這目前我們規定要公佈僱主姓名跟名稱啦就是說違反勞動相關法令你要公視於眾嘛你這樣才會有嚇阻力對不對有勞動基準法80條之一勞退條例53條之一勞工職災保險及保護法100條性別工作平等法38條等等等等其實有非常多條那現在實際上的狀況是勞動部你有一個統一的平台嘛就是各種違反勞動法令應該被公開的樣態你其實有一個統一的平台 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
15147.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
15167.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
這個平台上面其實蠻完整的寫得非常清楚包含各縣、市別、事業單位名稱主婚的日期、違反的法規名稱及設置查詢等等的選項而且很好查我希望要更完整你希望要更完整 非常好那我們今天就來針對這個事情來做一下討論這個平台是完整的操作性也佳但部長你知不知道各地方政府在執行的時候狀況是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
15173.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
15200.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
他們其實有時候登上來的時間會延遲對來我就一張一張給你看好這是你勞動部的嘛好其實查得非常清楚而且部長講要更清楚這本席給予肯定但各地方政府的就沒有像中央的這麼清楚好我們今天把話講不聽話這個相關檔案為什麼不能用好我們就一張一張看好這是苗栗的苗栗的台北的然後再往下台南的再看 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
15202.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
15230.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
就這幾個地方政府的樣態我在這邊跟部長說明一下地方大概就是我把一整包相關的資料弄成一個Excel檔或一個PDF上傳到網路上就了事了對不對這個不管是在操作易達性資訊完整性即時性剛剛部長提到的即時性以及各網站的點閱率來講一定是中央的效果好過各地的效果各地變成什麼我雖然我有進公佈的義務但恐怕就途距形式這我想部長也清楚以前帶過NGO對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
15231.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
15248.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
以前透明足跡的網站就很棒啊很多立法委員曾經都拿來當問證參考為什麼它是一個單一的平台然後它有一定的知名度大家會去查詢 會去使用那個資料它自然而然公佈相關的裁罰它才會對於違法的企業產生嚇阻跟威嚇的效果部長同意我這樣說嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
15249.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
15268.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
當然這是我們當初設計透明主機的原意對嘛 所以部長你有這樣子的一個經驗所以你會希望這樣子的平台優化那我希望平台的優化可以乾脆就一步到位這一點我相信部長應該是有能力也有經驗可以把它做得更好但問題是我們現在需要的是什麼我們希望的是他乾脆 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
15269.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
15293.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
檢證辨明的部分也可以一併來做處理啦也就是說現在地方政府我可能資料要報給中央對不對有一手然後我又要丟在自己的網站上丟自己網站上其實我覺得是額外的業務負擔不如啦是不是藉由這次修法的這個這樣的一個機會乾脆來做整合也就是說地方有資料你把格式等等照你心中比較完整的模式設計好以後所有地方政府我一樣有裁罰等等的就彙整上傳就好了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
15294.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
15313.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
這樣是不是全國就是一個平台然後把所有資料非常詳細完整而且公佈在您所謂的功能較好內容較多的網站上然後所有要監督勞動相關的或者是求職者要去看的時候我給予他更好的易達性這樣子是不是嚇阻的效果跟網站的知名度宣傳的管道是不是都會比較方便跟委員說明第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
15318.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
15340.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
因為這次的修法比較是針對治安法因為近期的幾個勞動法規的修法其實都有在條文裡面放入一個資訊公開必須公開這樣的條文那這一次我們在治安法裡面把它放進來讓它的法規授權能夠更清楚那第二個是我們會努力的把至少勞動部我們自己的相關的裁罰紀錄的平台跟這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
15342.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
15367.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
這個展示就是說揭露的平台我們希望能夠做更好那我們近期其實也在跟地方政府討論比方說我們確實現在也在我們的調評師也在跟地方政府討論其實有些勞動條他們有時候上傳的速度比較慢會delay有時候大家查的時候就是可能一兩個月就查不到或者是什麼狀況那我們現在也希望能夠跟他說該一定的時間就要能夠上傳避免那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
15367.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
15392.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
即時性不告的話我現在意思就是說我們藉由這次修法因為我的條文有講嘛就是各地方政府報到中央嘛然後我統一在你中央的平台上中央我們會盡力做好可是地方政府要怎麼做說實話他一樣要報嘛他一樣報給你這個我覺得是不是要跟地方政府或者是說我現在 我之所以會提這樣修法要對地方政府的監督我與其去期待各個縣市政府的縣市議會或是政府自己突然間腦袋靈光起來然後突然關注到這件小事 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
15393.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
15411.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
不如中央直接法規上遊戲規則做調整把那個行政的程序簡化嘛也就是說我地方既然本來就要報給中央我是不是就一併在平台的時候一併做上傳我以後是不是就只要一個平台就好地方的平台不用管他嘛就是中央平台全部看大家的效果也會比較好我把這個東西寫在法條裡面這樣子喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
15413.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
15437.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
第一個 我不認為這是小事啦 我認為這是大事啦那我們認為這件事情會對於企業端的嚇阻會有一定的效果那第二個 我們願意來跟地方政府來溝通啦可是我的確 我沒有辦法全然的去控制地方政府的界面該怎麼設計但是我們會把中央的界面設計好我認為中央現在是最完整 而且做得最好我們把中央的界面給設計好 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
15438.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
15464.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
但是我們願意來跟地方政府討論是不是地方的介面應該要符合哪些原則包括他上傳的部分我今天談的就是這件事與其去期待各地方堅定標準然後跌床架屋嘛是不是以後就是把作業流程單純化也就是我地方全部收全部給你在你的完整平台公佈我地方中央都是給同一個網址通通看這個平台它的效果才會好我的意思是這樣那委員你意思是說地方政府接下來不用做揭露囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
15465.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
15471.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
報給你 你來揭露 把它變成一套完整的中央決定會揭露可是是不是地方政府就不必要去做揭露這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
15474.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
15495.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
我覺得你覺得我覺得也不應該讓地方政府都沒有這些相關的事他可以把資料報給我們做完整的他本來就會把資料報給你對那我們在我們的系統裡面把揭露的這個公開性做得更好可達性可可盡性做得更好這我們都會做可是他就不用做了 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
15495.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
15513.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
我現在談的事就是他就不用做嗎簡正然後你不要讓他跌雙降然後做無意義的事情嘛我是不是有更多的空間更多的然後你今天不要讓他去搞那麼多我地方也要揭露中央也要揭露資料一大堆彙整格式不一樣你把這段省下來然後你要求他即時性跟精準性資料意義我的看法是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
15514.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
15533.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
地方政府也可以有他著重的揭露項目他把他的揭露項目做得更好我覺得這部分我們不會說他不應該比方說各縣市有各縣市他最在意的產業相關的財閥的問題他要再特別去做揭露或專案性的揭露我覺得這也很好我們會把中央的揭露系統給做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
15533.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
15557.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
但是我不會說地方政府就沒有責任或沒有必要他去做揭露 我不會這樣說可是你回想一下你在NGO的時候如果今天同時有18個透明足跡的網站它的效果會不會這麼好那我會去挑最好的 我會去挑最好的來看是嘛 所以可是我不會說其他就沒有責任揭露如果這個地方能夠統合一起把這個平台做到最好這個才是最有效率的這個這個事情我們中央會來做我們中央會做 可是我不覺得地方政府就沒有責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
15558.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
15582.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
地方政府通報的數據精準性什麼 要加強這當然是他的責任但是我們在談的是政策效果不要跌窗架屋 不要浪費多餘的時間跟人力強化政策的品質嘛 方向是這樣但沒關係 因為今天我們不要佔用大家休息時間我們主條的時候再來好好討論 好吧好 辛苦 謝謝好 謝謝牛喜賢委員發言 謝謝部長的答詢好 那我們休息到1點繼續開會 抱歉 抱歉沒有啦 你這小子 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
15585.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
15586.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
好 大家休息一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
16055.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
16078.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
不好意思 讓大家沒有充分的休息時間不過因為時間到了我們就繼續開會 下一位我們請楊雅委員發言謝謝主席這次是很抱歉 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
16091.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
16118.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
欸 部長我還沒有點你欸 我想說你在吃飯我先 先那個好了 先民進黨局何局長好了好 麻煩先請何局長局長 我還是先把你的問題我只問一題 所以比較快速你大概講一下 就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
16121.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
16149.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
航空器飛行作業管理規則第36條之二還有第231條大概都有針對飛機的主原因疾病 疲勞等可能影響飛安情況進行規範跟處置方式在這一次的事件中這個空姐已經多次表達表達身體有嚴重的不適沒有充分休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
16150.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
16158.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
所以他違反了這個法規對不對 有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
16158.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
16182.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
我跟委員報告我們現在看到就是說去了解就是說他出勤的時候我們現在要再確認就是說這一位空服員他在從桃園因為他是從桃園飛米蘭這個部分他是不是屬於身體是適合飛航的那基本上如果根據報告來講他並沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
16184.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
16199.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
說明說他自己不適合飛航那在回程 從米蘭因為他們中間有一個在外站休息25號早上的時候依據報告來講是也沒有報告上也沒有提出說有 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
16200.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
16219.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
不是的 也沒有提出報告上都沒有續名的對 就是說組員沒提出就是說組員沒有提出來所以如果他有提出應該是可以有一些他只要有提出就會過程嗎對 如果有提出可是這個部分在目前的所以他沒有提出啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
16220.63 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
16239.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
目前的資料上顯示是這樣所以這部分我們會再進一步去了解那在飛機上執勤的時候有表達有不舒服所以有安排他做業務的調整局長我想這樣子啦就是說因為航空業呢就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
16240.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
16261.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
算是一個特許的行業公部門應該理論上可以做監督的力道也大一點我覺得你們應該還是要去做全盤的一個考量然後看怎麼改善相關的勞工環境的改善計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
16263.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
16281.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
謝謝委員 我們這部分會要求長榮做一個深刻的檢討我們也會去根據他的部分我們也會做一個深入調查對 也不只長榮就國際航空都一併做處理好 謝謝局長 局長請回主席我請一下洪思安部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
16286.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
16309.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
楊委員好部長好 抱歉這委員會吵到大家吃飯的時間都沒有了所以很抱歉請教一下部長就是長榮航空近年來其實有多次被勞動部開罰的紀錄是有媒體反映出來就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
16310.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
16338.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
有員工反映公司對於升遷有嚴格的規定就是假如請假就會嚴重影響升遷我想請教一下部長就是對於此案未來行政調查的重點方向會是什麼那有關公司把員工的出行記錄當作升遷的一個標準是不是會是一個調查的重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
16341.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
16357.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
跟委員說明那當然我們接下來會去調查的部分也包括會對於這些相關的機組員的訪談這部分我們會盡量希望能夠還原這位這位過世的機組 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
16359.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
16377.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
過世的組員他生前所遇到的狀況這是重點那第二個是當然現在大家很關心就是病假尤其是病假因為這次的機組員他其實是身體是有狀況的那病假會不會影響到相關的權益所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
16378.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
16396.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
我想這部分我們當然現在也在做一些檢視那的確我們也不希望說勞工生病那卻必須要硬撐著不休息好像這件事情是被鼓勵的因為這的確是從職場健康的角度來說這是有負面效果的 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
16396.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
16415.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
過去的確有看到有一些職場的文化變得好像企業是在用他自己內部的激勵或者是企業內部治理的機制在鼓勵大家要硬撐可是常常硬撐反而演變成更大的問題或更大的風險這部分我覺得我們也會來正視這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
16421.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
16448.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
部長講到病假我有個問題跟部長做個討論部長大概早上部長有講說病假沒收全勤獎金不合理所以未來可能會用制度性要求來保障勞工權益我想要請教一下部長這個想法你是 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
16451.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
16475.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
怎麼產生的就病假沒收全勤獎金不合理應該是說我如果更清楚再說明假設勞工請一兩天的病假你就把他一整個月的全勤獎金都沒收我認為這其實是有待商榷也不合理的狀況這有可能會變成剛才說的好像變成制度性去 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
16476.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
16497.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
勸阻勞工自己提出站在勞工的立場我們絕對會很希望能夠確保勞工的任何權益可是這邊提醒部長就是說全營獎金它並不是每一家公司都有假如說我們從制度面或法律面來強制併價 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
16505.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
16512.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
不能扣除全金獎金可能會有很多會有很多公司反而把全金獎金拿掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
16514.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
16539.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
因為全勤獎金並不是每一家公司都有我跟文說明他其實這個想法的概念或這個製度保障的概念是來自於其實在蠻多的法院的判決有判決說其實全勤獎金算是勞工工資的一部分所以他在性質上認定的工資的一部分部長 工資的一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
16540.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
16562.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
跟是不是常態普遍的工資是兩回事對公司有設全景獎金它當然是工資的一部分可是很多公司事實上是沒有全景獎金的是 也有那會不會因為因為我們因為你目前的政策方向是假如請病假 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
16564.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
16591.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
依然要給全勤獎金所以造成不能把整個月的全勤獎金都沒收因為要不要設全勤獎金並不是法律面可以干涉的是企業自己來做決定那假如說我們的政策方向變成並價不能影響全勤獎金反而會讓很多廣大的勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
16593.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
16622.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
就是讓企業取消全薪獎金讓勞工反而受損你懂我的意思嗎對 跟委員說明其實我們涉及的因為它有一個前提是因為法院判決不是 不是 我就講說法院 很多法院判決全薪獎金算是工資的一部分所以因為它是工資的一部分所以其實它也不能夠片面的自己取消是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
16625.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
16627.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
公司不能自己決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
16627.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
16653.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
跟委員報告如同委員說的現在的這個全勤獎金因為在法律上實務上面跟行政機關跟司法機關都認定是工資那基本上如果雙方私契約勞動契約已經都約定了有全勤獎金這樣的一個勞動契約的內容那基本上如果一方要變更的話要經雙方同意不是我現在的意思是說他從企業的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
16658.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
16673.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
可能你已經入職的因為勞動契約所以你還是有前進獎金他會不會以後就不給前進獎金懂我的意思嗎他當然是公知的一部分這個沒有任何的爭議 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
16675.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
16690.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
只是說我們在想從制度保障員工權益的時候不能單想一個點就是說單想一個點的風險會讓很多人反而失去我們的確現在在考慮的是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
16691.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
16710.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
比方說你如果是請一兩天的病假 假如不是 我現在講不是 你就不能把整個月也許你要不要說按比例我知道你的意思啦只是說我也了解我們也都一樣是想要保障勞工的權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
16713.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
16739.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
甚至於是看能不能增加它的福利啦只是說有的政策在推動譬如說我就講說全景獎金假如不是每一個企業都有假如不是那會不會因為我們把病假 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
16741.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
16763.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
請病假不影響前景獎金反而讓很多企業取消他的前景獎金制度啦我現在在講的是這個概念啦就是說整個政策的推出不能夠只看一個點啦我當然希望真的如部長的想法就是一方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
16765.481 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
16790.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
請併價不影響全景獎金另外一方面企業又可以一直維持全景獎金的制度甚至於我更希望每一個企業在穩定發展的路徑中全部都設有全景獎金可是問題是全景獎金設與不設是在企業的決策 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
16792.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
16809.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
是在企業的決策我剛才是在提醒部長說你會不會因為請病假不影響到全勤獎金所以影響到企業決策反而損害到原有的勞工權益 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
16810.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
16827.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
我跟委員說我們當然不希望損害到勞工的權益那我們會來把委員的提醒我們再把它納入更廣泛的考慮但是我覺得最核心的概念是希望說不要讓企業用一些這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
16830.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
16853.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
獎懲的方式或者他設計這個獎懲的方式反而讓很多勞工他明明已經生病他其實該請假可是卻不敢請他這個獎懲把這個事情跟獎懲的連動全新獎金是這個獎懲或者是不利待遇大家認知的不利待遇的某一個例子或一部分可是我們原初的概念是希望這個能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
16855.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
16881.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
如果勞工真的生病該請假休息就讓他請假休息不要釀成更大的問題這個當然任何的遺憾都不是我們我們設計的概念出發點會是來自這個事情但是委員的提醒我們也把它納入來思考這樣子就是說很多有關政策面也好 法律面也好要去做的都不能是 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
16883.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
16902.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
譬如說我就講說不是每一個企業都設有這個獎金當然他設的獎金他就變成工資的一部分可是不能反推說他原本就是他的工資因為這個是企業決策如果有設的話就是工資的一部分可是要不要要不要設 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
16905.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
16920.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
要不要設 並不是法律可以干涉的那我的擔憂是會不會 我在提醒部裡面說會不會我們為了要保護勞工所以把請病假 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
16922.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
16942.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
不可以扣他的情形獎金反而讓契約政策轉變把原本的情形獎金取消我在講的是這件事我聽懂委員的提醒整個政策面的推動也好法律面的修正也好有的時候必須要顧慮到 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
16944.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
16959.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
到整体性的整体性然后是不是有有办法真正的强制强制到企业去去做到落实落实劳工的原意是好不好谢谢部长谢谢主席 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
16961.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
16989.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
謝謝楊雅雲的發言 謝謝部長的答詢下一位我們請陳妍委員 陳妍委員改書面質詢下一位請羅明才委員 羅明才委員不在下一位請顏寬文委員 顏寬文委員不在下一位請張雅玲委員發言謝謝主席 我們邀請勞動部部長來 也請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
16995.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
17009.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
張委員好 部長好這幾天我想大家都非常關注有關於長榮航空空姐故事的事情那其實也引發許多社會的輿論但今天我就不詳細講這個事件的經過了主要就是來到我們在2019年長榮航空的空服員罷工的時候下夜 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
17010.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
17031.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
公會就已經對長榮的排班以及請假制度提出了很多的不滿但是當時的資方只有做出部分的讓步那現在就想來討論一個核心的精神到底我們是不是已經理所當然的接受了敬業比健康更重要的這個價值觀因為過去以來我想我們在很多的不管是媒體的 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
17032.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
17051.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
論述上或是我們在社會上的價值都會覺得說這個人很努力工作盡心盡力是一個美德但是如果這樣子的文化但是這樣子的文化不僅是一個錯誤的價值其實也容易變成是勞工的不合理的要求和自我剝削我想請教部長就是說過去台灣被稱作過勞之島 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
17055.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
17076.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
但是這麼多年過去了我們還是無法擺脫這樣子的惡名那我有兩個方向想要從這個case上面來跟部長討論就是說我們是不是可以從這兩個面向來討論就是說像是病假權保障與懲罰性機制就是說企業已扣分啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
17077.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
17096.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
影響選班啦考今年中等的方式來間接懲罰你請病假那是否我們可以視為它是妨礙病假學或是不當管理呢部長你的看法是委員在問的這個問題其實就是今天大家都很關注的一個主題那我自己是認為就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
17099.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
17125.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
如果勞工明明就是已經生病了那他其實明明現在就是該請病假休息那卻要硬撐著來上班來繼續做他的工作那我認為這不應該被視為是一種好像企業正向的文化所以在這個狀況下我自己也認為這種勞工生病卻撐著不休息不應該被制度性的鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
17126.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
17131.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
所以聽起來就是部長您也非常認同它其實是妨礙他們請病假的權利嘛也是一種不當的管理 對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
17134.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
17156.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
這是不是不當的管理當然因為不當管理或者是不利對待的樣態其實蠻多的可是至少我自己是覺得說如果他明明就是明確他就是已經生病了那可是卻用各種制度的方式讓他不敢提出來那我認為這對企業的文化或企業的治理來說應該不是一件好事好那我想這個是我們應該調整的方向對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
17159.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
17180.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
我认为我们在这个目标上面然后来看哪些做法相关的作为来去处理这样子的样态对不对对我觉得朝着这个方向看怎么逐步的来前进吧相关这个请病假的权利有更多的保障让劳工不会用一种被制度性的方式好像被嚇阻了这样子 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
17181.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
17200.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
好了解那第二個就是說有就是有關於職災與過勞的認定那不曉得說在這個case上面我們有沒有進行的這個職業病或是職災因果的評估那評估的項目有沒有包含到公視輪班跨時區醫組跟組織壓力那目前我們在如果已經做了職災那目前的進度大概是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
17202.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
17229.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
我們會當然會在這個案例裡面做職災或職業病相關的了解跟調查不過這部分的確他會比較專業他也涉及到一些專業的認定所以這部分確實也會需要一點時間所以我們現在是還沒啟動其實我們當然有初步的一些了解可是可能還需要更多的資訊所以接下來我們會跟相關的機組員來做一些訪談 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
17230.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
17256.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
了解 那我們預估是大概什麼時候會有一個初步的報告呢或是結論職業病跟職災的判斷其實可能會要真的要時間比較久通常職業病跟職災的判斷會需要的時間真的會比較多大概會是什麼時候我們可以再來追蹤新一步的後續嗎因為我也不可能兩個禮拜就來追你一次嘛所以大概什麼時候比較好來追後續這件事情我們是不是先兩個月我們一個初步的了解好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
17257.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
17274.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
好沒有問題因為其實我也只是想要了解說我們到底有沒有什麼樣子的更積極的我們從這些case上面可以找到一些方法跟手段來去面對現在企業阻止勞工請病假的這樣子的一個事件那我也想再請教一下就是說在我們整個事件發生到現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
17277.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
17294.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
他被拒絕請病假那算不算一種職場霸凌呢也就是說在我們現在如果拒絕請病假這直接是違法的如果拒絕請病假僱主或企業直接拒絕勞工請病假這個事情有發生這直接就是違反勞基法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
17296.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
17325.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
所以這個我們就是他也不用放在這個霸凌裡面嘛他就是聽起來就是在直接原本的勞基法裡面去處理在勞基法裡面 對就是不能拒絕就不用談霸凌的問題如果拒絕請病假就是不行這就是違法的好 了解好 那我想就是說因為我時間也到了那我今天我想就是在我們具體的作為上面呢我們在兩個月我想還是從這個case來看看我們可以再有什麼樣更好的一個精進做法所以之後兩個月之後我們會來持續的跟隆隆部來追蹤 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
17328.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
17352.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
謝謝好謝謝張雅玲委員的發言現在我們請王國威委員王國威委員不在現在請蔡宇委員蔡宇委員蔡宇委員不在現在請洪孟海委員發言好主席謝謝麻煩請洪森漢部長好請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
17359.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
17366.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
部長好部長我想今天感謝朝偉這邊排這個專報告那其實最主要還是一樣這個空服員的一個事件 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
17367.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
17389.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
這個憾事大家都不希望發生但是既然發生了我們就一定要好好來追究一下我先請教一下有沒有注意到違反勞動事業單位的查詢系統裡面長榮航空也就是這一次的這個事件裡面的空服員的一個業主他過去三年裡面有都被我們這邊有做連續的一些開罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
17390.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
17418.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
他的開罰金額今年累計四次罰還已經到265萬是不是詳細的數但確實罰的比數不算少是 我們國家裡面的幾個航空裡面不管是中華航空 新宇航空 虎航或者是相關長榮航空等等是不是長榮航空的比例最高就今年來說長榮應該是比較多的好 那前三年呢這三年 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
17421.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
17442.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
這幾年加起來長榮都是比較高也是嘛所以說換言之從過去到現在我們現在討論這一家公司它算不算是累犯算不算是一個慣犯累犯應該算是比例來講嘛也就只有這幾家航空公司嘛是不是但是我的意思說其他航空公司也不一定就非常好 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
17444.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
17469.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
所以這根本性的問題部長非常好你用這樣子一個那麼幽默的態度但是一條人命發生不好笑我沒有不好笑我是說他表現不好我現在要講的其實是如果說你是身為勞工朋友的主管機關你要究責的是這個事業單位的話那如果說過去三年都已經有看到這家公司持續有被相關 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
17471.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
17493.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
我們違反勞動法令的查詢系統裡面其中延長工時超過法定規定8次的遭罰高達295萬那是不是應該就要被列為一個警訊當然列為一個黑名單或說列為一個重點稽查的事業當然是那我們做了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
17495.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
17518.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
來再來如果說這一個公司他沒有辦法提供友善的職場甚至危害生命的時候是不是意味公司的管理方式應該要檢討當然好有沒有看到因為現在傳出說長榮航空的績效考核評比礦值一天扣4分試病假一天扣1分遲到早退扣0.5分甚至還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
17519.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
17542.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
旺旺日包括說跨年農曆春節等缺勤者一天扣3分我先說如果說是這個礦值等等的那可能這個扣分相對來講大家覺得有道理但是我請市價或請併價也要被扣分你覺得這職場的潛規則不長知情嗎有沒有掌握我們有看到這樣的訊息是那 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
17543.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
17553.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
病假也好 試假也好我員工請了病假 請了試假然後還要被額外的挑出來扣分還要被額外挑出來究責部長認為合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
17556.084 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
17580.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
我們當然認為如果勞工已經明確就是生病那他一定是生病才請病假嘛讓我說完嘛來如果勞工確定是生病但是還是被這個要求或者是各種方式要硬撐著不休息我覺得這當然這個不應該被我認為不應該被制度性的鼓勵這種狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
17581.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
17605.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
部長 部長 部長 釐清一下我現在講的是說我剛剛也提到了就是這個我們是因為我不在長榮公司服務過所以我也不知道說有這樣的潛規則但是我們一直都有聽說有些特殊行業有特殊的潛規則那現在傳出來長榮這家公司它的績效考核評比就把請病假 請試假都列入績效考核評比來扣分 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
17606.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
17633.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
那您剛有提到是說我還要員工還要自己證明真的有病我才能請病假這我覺得已經偏離了我們當初設計說有病假的這個請假的一個標準那再者是我現在要請教的是說公司能不能主張說我員工請病假我額外的扣分或是我額外把你列為是考機評比的評比範圍我們當然不希望這樣不希望還是不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
17634.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
17658.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
你是勞動部主管機關耶現在這在法規上面法規上面規範可不可以各位報告因為這邊涉及的是勞工我們現在病假其實在勞動基準法裡面的天數其實可以長達到兩年或者是依照他的相關的請假的部分那勞工請假規則也明確規定事業單位他要制定請假的程序 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
17658.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
17683.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
那至於這個請假相關造成雇主在管理上面有一些的措施到底是不是不利對待那這個部分其實我們勞動部這邊後續會針對請假的類型然後相關攜帶會管理的手段它是不是合理合情合法這部分我們會邀請各方再來討論所以過去到現在都沒有所謂的不利對待的樣態跟明確規定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
17685.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
17703.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
然後還有就是說現在我們點出來我們現在點出來如果說他連請一天病假一年365天我連請一天病假我都要被扣一分你覺得這合理嗎我自己是覺得這當然不合理啊是啊完全不合理吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
17705.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
17716.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
那所以部長我很訝異耶我很訝異我已經排到第二四位質詢了結果我質詢這些問題你到現在還沒有辦法有一個明確的回覆耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
17717.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
17741.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
那代表是什麼代表是在這件事情上面第一我准我受訪的時候我就講了就是說會不會有很多我當然都希望我們的僱主勞工都站在天平的兩邊大家都是互相尊重但是如果說有一個行業裡面有潛規則讓人害怕請病假害怕叫救護車害怕求助這不是工作這是集體霸凌 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
17742.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
17752.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
那如果說是集體霸凌的話我們身為勞工的主管機關勞動部就應該要站出來當勞工的靠山當然我現在在講的是說如果說今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
17754.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
17773.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
長榮航空他確實有所謂我們去做調查了解他有沒有說真的讓員工請一天病假都要扣分影響到他年底的一個考積有沒有跟委員說明大概在整體的調查上面我們還在做更多的訪談那我們現在是初步這應該不難吧對我們大概是在應該是這兩個禮拜內我們會去跟相關的機組員在做訪談 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
17780.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
17806.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
兩個禮拜內會不會太久其實說實在話因為其實有些機組員不一定都在台灣不是 我今天部長你好像還沒有釐清到問題的核心我覺得不只是這個機組員他應該是一個整體的公司的智慧但是我說我們在這裡面所以我現在從一個個案這一個個案要去做認定我尊重相關的單位因為現在我知道說地方政府也好我們的這個中央部會也都已經有在調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
17806.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
17828.399 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
但我現在在拉到更高一個層次就是說幾個公司裡面有沒有這個行業的潛規則我怕請市價 怕請病價因為請市價 請病價會被扣分市價 病價本來就不應該有這樣的一個規定我們就是認為勞工生病卻硬撐著這件事情不該被制度性的鼓勵 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
17829.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
17855.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
是嘛所以我現在才是說你要釐清這件事情我們從這個出發點希望來設計能夠有更多保障的做法市長你回覆市長是說有怕很極端的樣態譬如說我病假可以請兩年會不會有人刻意的來擺爛然後請兩年所以說造成說公司管理不利但是我現在把這一些極端的案例給撇開而市長是說如果說一個行業連請365天連請一天病假都要被扣分的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
17855.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
17875.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
基本上他不只是不利待遇啊他根本就是集體霸凌所以現在才要釐清說到底有沒有行業有這樣子的一個潛規則有沒有這樣子的一個暗黑條款而我們要做的就應該是要用法令明文規定保障嚇阻這種暗黑條款嚇阻這種潛規則嘛不是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
17878.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
17898.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
什麼時候可以讓國人更清楚明白了解這也才是這一個行業裡面為什麼會讓大家詬病的一個地方根本說明我們其實也做了一些檢討比方說就拿全勤獎金的部分來說的話我們就是認為這個勞工請病假不應該請一兩天病假就被沒收整個 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
17900.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
17926.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
整個月的這個全勤獎金全勤獎金變成是一種來去嚇阻勞工請病假的一些手段所以就全勤獎這部分我們其實會用一些制度性的方法希望來做更多的保障這部分就是我們的前套但是關於其他的航空公司包括中華航空 長榮航空我們國內的航空公司 新宇航空針對他們的績效平和標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
17928.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
17944.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
應該要做檢討把不合理的績效平和標準要求公司拿掉我想這是如果說他明明這些績效平和標準都已經是違法的不容許他持續用這種違法手段來去要求他的勞工吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
17945.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
17969.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
跟委員說明第一個在勞動法規的部分我們來處理但是如果涉及到它一些管理的目標跟績效的部分我想這部分我們會來跟民航局這邊來討論也希望交通部這邊民航局這邊我們一起合作有一些跨部會的手段來去改變現在我們看到航空業這種請假的制度包括他們的文化這部分我們會跟民航局這邊一起來做 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
17972.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
17976.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
什麼時候可以讓本席以及讓國人可以知道更進一步的消息 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
17978.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
18004.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
就這個個案的調查我們剛才是承諾是兩個禮拜希望有更進一步的這個訪談跟調查的結果那就整體的剛才講說制度面的話我覺得我們會來一步一步的來進行那確實他可能會需要一些過程然後我們也在做一些檢視因為請病假的樣態其實蠻多的被認知為不利對待的樣態其實也蠻多的那你要什麼時候明定出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
18005.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
18024.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
我想召委已經站起來了所以說我尊重召委但我要求的是勞動部今天應該要讓我們國人知道是說你什麼時候可以明定所謂的不利樣態以及針對這個個別公司有這種惡意的績效平和標準是違法的情況什麼時候可以處理跟檢討兩個月內兩個月內 對好 本期會持續追這個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
18029.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
18055.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
部長兩個月內找民航局相關單位開會找三大公司幾家這個航空公司業者一起共同開會我們不是兩個月我這禮拜就要找民航局開會好但是兩個月內把這相關的部分提出來好不好謝謝謝謝黃孟愷委員發言謝謝部長答詢下一位我們請范雲文發言謝謝趙偉有請洪部長有請洪部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
18062.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
18090.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
范委員好部長午安我想大家都非常的關心個案當然個案很重要但是從法規面的修改也非常的重要今天我們的另外一個議題就是職安法的修正也是因為勞動部的不幸的個案我們前部長下台我是肯定部長在這麼短時間之內就提出你們的版本我仔細了比照的版本有些部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
18090.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
18109.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
我蠻高興就是說你們都處理了那有些部分就是想藉由今天質詢的機會再跟部長討論希望還有改變的空間那當然我想我四年前就開始關心職場霸凌是一位嘉義的代理教師出事那後來我們發現其實台灣職場霸凌非常嚴重從教保員老師到護理師 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
18111.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
18133.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
那我就直接跳到院版的分析喔那以我來看院版的分析這次我們主要要處理四大問題職場霸凌的定義那院版是有但是我個人覺得還是不夠周全喔那雖然你們在報告中有解釋那我的部分希望能夠涵蓋同儕間或下對上可在你們的部分有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
18134.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
18149.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
有都包括在里面你那个解读因为你没有文具就是植物所以是可以包含下对上跟同材我们在说明栏里面都有明确好那谢谢部长的同材跟下对上都可以适用更广泛的都适用好那非常好哦 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
18150.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
18176.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
那就內部跟外部的申訴機制你們是有那但是我的辦公室提出來的我的版本有再申訴機制那你們這個部分沒有那調查小組你們是有那申訴調查程序我想部長有一直有說明就是你們雖然沒有放在母法但是會在子法中那待會我還是想再討論一下那職場霸凌的定義那這樣子問題就比較小我就部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
18179.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
18203.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
在申訴的部分我覺得如果能夠定在我們的母法中其實會比較好關於第三方機構調查的部分你們在說明中也覺得不太可能所以我想請我認為目前可能的回應方式我的最後一頁不見了不好意思 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
18205.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
18219.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
目前其实就有两种解方如果部长讲到比如说调查的办法如果不放在母法中的话那能不能在我们在审查法案的时候你的执法一并给我们参考呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
18220.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
18246.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
因為安慰辦法當時也是有委員有疑慮所以安慰辦法當時應該是考試院那邊嘛他們就把相關的執法一併提出所以部長如果要走解方一的話我會建議這樣做因為解方二是性別平等教育法是有把調查專章就放在母法中訂得很細那我的版本是學習性別平等教育法但是看起來勞動部現在是希望放在執法中那針對這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
18247.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
18271.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
部長覺得有沒有可能把已經準備好的執法就一起讓我們看到呢跟委員說明我建議我們一個做法其實我們其實是可以把就是大家其實覺得期望的這個調查的相關的程序或程序上的規範那我覺得我們可以討論一個比方說一個附帶決議那我們就把它寫在附帶決議裡面來要求接下來的執法裡面要把它放入這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
18272.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
18288.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
附帶決議我是可以接受但我覺得更好的方法如果你們執法先是來不及準備是不是因為其實我們的執法非常多因為這個這次的執安法是大修我們可能要修訂是10個附屬法規的執法 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
18289.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
18304.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
所以那个执法不是只有一步或者是什么是很大程度的大修所以我是建议说是不是我们就可以用一个附带决议的方式那把大家期望的其实一些规范用附带决议的方式要求我们在执法里面要把它定出来那这样 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
18305.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
18321.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
我還是請 既然我們已經談到這那部長是不是可以先請你們內部準備把調查原本我們期待放在母法中的寫得越細越好就放在附帶決議中到時候就不會 就跑不掉好不好要不然我們還是會非常的擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
18321.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
18350.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
那回到那個再申訴救濟的部分部長因為就是您知道我們關於性別工作平等法等等再申訴救濟是一個非常重要的權利那今天你們只有設定說只有當主管是霸凌的行為人的時候才能夠往就是上級主管機關勞工局那可是就沒有說他內部如果處理不好的時候調查不成立的時候那這部分就沒有再申訴機制這部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
18351.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
18365.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
應該是這樣現在的現在的草案的設計是如果勞工覺得在雇主企業的調查的機制在程序上問題的話那是可以來向地方的勞政主管機關或勞檢機關來申訴讓勞檢讓外部的檢查來去確認跟檢查這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
18375.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
18402.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
雇主在调查的过程里面到底程序上面有没有违失如果程序上有违失的话那企业这边就需要重新再做调查部长你们这是写在你们的第几条他可以用39条用39条来提请救济那用39条来引进外部的劳检机制来确认在程序面上面有没有问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
18403.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
18415.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
39條是說用第一那是叫像是不是事業單位違反本法或有關安全衛生之規定這個部分嗎但是這部分這文字很模糊因為大家一般勞工應該看不太懂吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
18415.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
18433.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
這是可以用在立法說明跟我們39條就是有設計但是他檢視的是相關的程序他不是檢視結果但是如果程序上沒有做到我們原本的要求的話那程序上有問題他要嘛修正要嘛他就必須重新重啟調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
18434.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
18463.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
那部長您既然有心要讓大家有再申訴即止為什麼不寫得更明白一點就是既然可以用三十九之一可是一般勞工要是我的話法律素養不夠高就會看不懂是不是那一般人不會看到法條說明嗎既然有這個再申訴就計是不是就能夠寫得更清楚一點好不好我覺得看立法說明或哪些地方我們再把它表達得更清楚我們這原因或者是我們到時候因為這個法如果修過以後也會做很多的宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
18463.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
18484.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
那宣導部分我們讓大家知道有一個這樣子來做程序面的外部檢視的機制我自己是因為我們都去說看過上網查法條都沒有立法說明所以主管機關等到勞工知道自己的權益的時候已經很晚了我還是建議說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
18484.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
18497.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
部長的考慮就是可以有再申訴救濟是不是用哪個方式我們在這次審法條則就放進去 好不好是 好 謝謝那謝謝部長 也謝謝召委可以一起支持好 感謝一定支持 好 謝謝好 謝謝好 謝謝好 委員盧憲一 陳穎 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
18506.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
18523.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
本日會議詢問全部結束那委員吳憲麗陳寧所提書面諮詢列入記錄刊登公報現在作為下決議決定及決議第一報告說明及詢問完畢第二委員諮詢未及答覆或請補充資料者請相關機關於兩週內以書面答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
18526.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
18541.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
委員另有要求期限者從期所定接下來進行提案條文之宣讀非法案的相關立席人員可以先行離席都沒有 你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
18548.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
18575.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
我們等一下要請醫事院來做這個宣讀的提案條文的內容那那個宣讀的人員如果還沒有用餐先行用餐好不好我給各位先10分鐘給大家一個10分鐘啦OK好OK好OK好會有關這個法案的相關列席人員可以先行離開然後部長還是你們醫事主管 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
18577.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
18583.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
也可以先行離開啦 好不好因為只有宣讀而已啦沒關係啦 OK 好 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
18585.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
18610.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
好那現在請醫事人員來宣讀提案條文內容若有修正動議請一併宣讀職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案行政院委員廖先祥等18人委員劉許廷等18人委員李坤澤等26人委員魯明澤等16人委員臺灣民眾黨黨團委員林淑芬等19人委員楊耀等22人委員李坤澤等27人委員黃秀芳等21人委員翁曉琳等23人委員范雲等18人委員劉建國等17人委員吳祁銘等18人委員范 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
18613.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
18639.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
審判會等18人委員王玉敏等19人委員王玉敏等25人委員郭國恩等17人委員王宏偉等19人委員郭育晴等17人委員羅廷瑋等18人提案現行法條文對照表委員李坤澤等27人委員黃修方等21人提案第一條修正第二句為保障工作者安全及身心健康予以現行法同委員李坤澤等27人委員黃修方等21人提案第二條修正第五款及增列第六款如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
18641.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
18656.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
職業災害只因勞動場所之建築物機械設備原料材料化學品氣體蒸氣粉塵等或作業活動相關心理壓力事件及其他職業上原因引起之工作者精神或身體疾病傷害失能或死亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
18657.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
18677.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
六 敵意環境 只利用其職權 業務權利或不對等權利關係造成他人或勞動環境不利之影響使他人人格尊嚴受損 心生畏怖 感受敵意 冒犯或身心壓力予以現行法同委員范雲等18人提案第二條 與第三款據莫增列 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
18677.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
18691.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
代表雇主行使管理權之人或代表雇主處理有關受雇者事務之人視同雇主要派單位使用派遣勞工時視為第22條之一至第22條之八規定之雇主予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
18692.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
18716.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
委員王玉敏等19人提案第二條 增列第六款如下6 職場霸凌 指勞工於勞動場所執行職務因其事業單位人員利用職務或權勢等關係欲越業務上必要且合理範圍以冒犯 威脅 冷落 孤立 侮辱或其他不當之言詞或行為致其身心健康遭受危害 予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
18719.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
18746.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團提案第四條前段如下本法適用於各業包含公務人員、教育人員及精準人員予以現行法同委員王玉明等二屬人提案第四條第二句如下豆浩包含公務人員予以現行法同委員王宏偉等需求人提案第四條第二句如下豆浩包含各類公務員予以現行法同台灣民眾黨黨團提案第六條與第二項第三款居莫增列 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
18749.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
18774.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
並建立申訴調查及處理程序予以現行法同委員李坤澤等27人委員黃秀芳等21人提案第6條增列第一項如下第6條雇主或管理人員附有確保職場友善及避免敵意環境之責任現行第一項至第三項一至第二項至第四項修正文字安全衛生為身心安全衛生予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
18775.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
18794.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
委員劉建國等17人委員楊耀等22人委員郭國文等17人提案第6條增列第二項第4款如下4.職場霸凌之防範與處置現行第4款已列為第5款予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
18795.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
18810.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
委員王玉明等25人提案第6條第二項第三款據莫增列逗號並建立申訴調查及處理程序予以現行法同委員吳清明等18人提案第6條增列第二項第5款如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
18814.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
18838.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
五 建立防治職場霸凌申訴及調查處理機制並採取必要措施保護受害人予以現行法同行政院委員羅廷威等18人委員郭玉琴等17人提案第9條製造者 輸入者 供應者或雇主對於有下列情勢之產品不得使用安全標示 驗證合格標章一身混淆之類似標示或標章皆是余產品 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
18839.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
18861.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
一 未完成资讯申报网站登录二 未取得刑事验证合格三 资讯申报网站登录预期或刑事验证预期制造者或输入者对于完成资讯申报网站登录或取得刑事验证合格之产品应建立及保存产销资料 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
18861.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
18886.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
中央主管機關或勞動檢查機構得對前項產品進行抽驗及市場查驗業者不得規避妨礙或拒絕第二項產銷資料應包括之內容保存年限與其他相關事項及前項產品抽驗市場查驗及其他相關事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之委員劉建國等17人提案第9條第4項如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
18888.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
18896.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
前二项产销资料、产品抽验、市场查验及其他应遵循事项之办法由中央主管机关定之予以院版同 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
18898.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
18920.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
行政院提案第15條之一事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交付規劃者設計時應使該規劃者設計者依其工程特性分析潛在施工危害編制安全衛生圖說及規範量化編列安全衛生費用並製作工程規劃設計安全分析報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
18921.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
18943.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
事業單位將前項工程交付施工時應使該施工者於事前依工程規劃設計安全分析報告評估施工風險採取必要之預防設備及措施納入施工計畫書並確實執行前二項一定規模以上工程範圍分析與評估方法安全衛生圖說與規範之內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
18945.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
18963.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
工程規劃設計安全分析報告與施工計畫書內容要項及其他相關事項及辦法由中央主管機關定之委員劉建國等17人提案第15條之一第一項第一句及第三句句末為規劃者第三項如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
18965.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
18976.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
前二項一定規模工程分析與評估方法分析報告與施工計畫書內容要項及其他應遵行事項之辦法由中央主管機關定之予與院本同 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
18978.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
19000.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
委員郭廷偉等18人提案第15條之一第一項手續為事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交付規劃與與願反同委員郭玉琴等17人提案第15條之一第一項文字因使該規劃者前面文字為事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交付規劃或設計時與與願反同 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
19006.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
19035.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
行政院委員羅廷威等18人委員郭育晴等17人提案第22條事業單位勞工人數在50人以上者應致勞工健康服務人員或委託勞工健康服務專業機構辦理健康管理職業病與工作相關疾病去預防及健康促進等勞工健康保護事項前項職業病及工作相關疾病預防事項應配合第23條職安全衛生人員辦理之 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
19036.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
19045.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
第一項勞工健康服務人員專業機構之資格與管理勞工健康保護及其他應遵行事項之規則由中央主管機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
19048.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
19065.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
委員李坤澤等27人委員黃秀芳等21人提案第22條修正文字安全衛生為身心安全衛生予以現行法同委員李坤澤等21人委員黃秀芳等21人提案第22條之一事業單位勞工達特定類署者 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
19066.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
19093.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
中央主管机关应设立讲注办法鼓励事业单位设置职场心理卫生保护体系事业单位得特约心理卫生专业人员或单位办理心理健康管理及心理健康促进等劳工心理健康保护事项雇主不应以任何形式向特约心理卫生专业人员单位所取得以直接或间接方式识别特定当事人之病例或记录 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
19094.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
19111.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
前項病例或紀錄如為採取必要之預防設備健康管理或處置措施雇主得請求特約心理衛生專業人員單位提供經處理後或經蒐集者依其揭露方式無從識別特定當事人之資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
19112.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
19132.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
本法規定事業單位之適用辦法日期中央主管機關得以規模、性質分階段公告本法規定有關從事勞工心理健康服務之專業人員資格勞工心理健康保護及其他應遵行事項之規則由中央主管機關會同心理衛生中央主管機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
19133.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
19150.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
第一项职职场心理卫生保护体系应每二年由中央主管机关会同心理卫生中央主管机关提交阶段性报告送立法院备查第一项职职场心理卫生保护体系应于修法通过后二年内实施 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
19151.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
19177.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
行政院委員劉建國等17人委員審發會等18人委員羅廷威等18人委員郭育晴等17人委員郭國文等17人提案新增第二章之一職場霸凌之防制委員范雲等18人提案新增第二章之一職場霸凌之防制申訴調查及救濟委員王玉敏等19人提案新增第二章之一職場霸凌防制 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
19178.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
19196.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
行政院委員劉建國等17人委員羅廷威等18人委員郭玉琴等17人提案新增第22條之一本發所稱職場霸凌指勞工與勞動場所執行職務因其失業單位人員利用職務或權勢等關係欲越業務上必要且合理範圍 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
19196.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
19216.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
持续以冒犯威胁冷落孤立侮辱或其他不当之言辞或行为致其身心健康遭受危害但情节重大者不以持续发声为必要雇主应采取必要之措施防止职场霸凌之发生其雇佣劳工人数达下列规模者并依各款规定办理 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
19216.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
19231.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
一 勞工人數在10人以上者應訂定職場霸凌申訴管道並在工作場所公開揭示二 勞工人數在30人以上者應訂定職場霸凌防治措施申訴及懲處規範並在工作場所公開揭示 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
19233.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
19259.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
委員范雲等18人提案新增第22條之一第一項如下本法所稱職場霸凌指勞工於執行職務受同仁監或主管及部署監藉由職務權利濫用或不公平對待所造成持續性的冒犯威脅冷落孤立侮辱或其他不合理等言詞或行為以致有害勞工就業環境但情節重大者不以持續發生為必要予以願反同 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
19260.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
19288.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
委員審發會等18人 委員郭國恩等17人提案新增第22條之一 第一項倒數第4據為孤立或侮辱等言詞或行為予以院版同委員王玉明等19人提案新增第22條之一 僱主應採取必要措施防止職場霸凌之發生僱主僱用勞工人數在10人以上者應訂定職場霸凌防止措施申訴及懲處規範並在工作場所公開揭示 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
19289.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
19310.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
行政院委員羅廷瑋等18人 委員郭玉琴等17人提案新增第22條之二 雇主與窒息勞工遭受職場霸凌時 應採取下列立即有效之事當措施一 雇主因接獲被霸凌勞工申訴而窒息時 括弧一 採行避免申訴人受職場霸凌情形再度發生之措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
19310.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
19335.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
刮鬍二是申訴人需求及事件情節提供相關諮詢或必要之協助及保護措施刮鬍三對申訴事件進行調查申訴人有意願者得與協調如協調不成立時應持續調查刮鬍四對行為人為適當之懲戒或處理二僱主非因遣款情形而窒息時刮鬍一就相關事實進行必要之釐清 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
19337.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
19350.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
2.1被霸凌勞工意願協助其協調或提起申訴3.4適度調整工作內容或工作場所4.1被霸凌勞工意願提供相關諮詢或必要之協助及保護措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
19352.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
19379.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
僱主對於職場霸凌事件之調查或協調應秉持客觀公正公平原則於調查時並應給予當事人充分陳述意見及答辯機會僱主接獲被霸凌勞工申訴時應於中央主管機關指定之網站登錄事件之處理結果依應於該網站登錄之僱主依前三項所為之適當措施調查處理與申複原則資訊登錄方式與前條第二項各款 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
19379.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
19406.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
應訂定之防制措施申訴及懲處規範內容應包括職場霸凌之樣態預防事項教育訓練申訴管道調查處理與申訴程序調查人員資格與調查小組組成懲戒處理及其他相關措施其準則由中央主管機關定之委員范雲等18人提案新增第22條之二第一項第一款 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
19407.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
19434.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
第二目如下 括弧二對申訴人提供或轉介諮詢醫療或心理諮商諮商 社會福利資源法律諮詢及其他必要之服務第二款第三目及第四目如下 括弧三依備霸凌勞工意願提供或轉介諮詢醫療或心理諮商社會福利資源法律諮詢及其他必要之服務括弧四適度調整工作內容或工作場所 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
19436.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
19458.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
第三項後段如下經調查認定屬職場霸凌成立之案件亦應將處理結果於該網站登錄之第四項如下僱主依第一項所為適當措施前項資訊登錄方式與前條第二項後段應訂定之防制措施及規範內容應包括職場霸凌之樣態預防事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
19459.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
19476.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
教育訓練申訴管道調查與處理程序及人員組成懲戒處理及其他相關措施其準則由中央主管機關定之予以願反同委員劉建國等17人提案新增第22條之二第三項如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
19477.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
19502.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
雇主依前三項所為適當措施 調查處理與申付原則資訊登錄方式與前條第二項後段應訂定之防制措施及規範內容應包括職場霸凌之樣態預防事項教育訓練申訴管道調查處理與申付程序調查人員資格與組成懲戒處理及其他相關措施其準則由中央主管機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
19503.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
19527.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
予與院板同委員審發會等18人委員郭國文等17人提案新增第22條之二第一項第二款第三目及第四目同院板第四目及第三目第三項後段如下經調查認定署職場霸凌成立之案件亦應將處理結果於該網站登錄之第四項與委員范雲等18人提案同 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
19529.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
19556.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
委員王玉敏等19人提案新增第22條之二部署訂定之防制措施及規範應包括職場霸凌之樣態預防事項教育訓練申訴管道調查處理與申複程序調查人員資格與組成懲戒處理及其他相關措施其準則由中央主管機關定之委員王玉敏等19人提案新增第22條之四第一項序文及第一款第一至第三目同院版 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
19556.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
19576.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
第二十二條之二 續文以及第一款第一目至第三目 第四目至第六目如下括弧四 調查過程與結果應向申訴人充分說明括弧五 霸凌成立應對行為人為適當之懲戒或處理括弧六 霸凌不成立人得審酌情形為必要處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
19577.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
19585.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
第二款同院版第二款第二項同院版第三項第三項同院版第二項第四項及第五項如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
19587.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
19612.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
顧主為針對霸凌事件調查應成立調查小組調查小組成員外聘比例不得低於二分之一但行為人為最高負責人時調查小組成員應全部外聘調查小組認定霸凌事件不成立申訴人仍有異議者得向地方主管機關提出申訴申訴人得要求顧主提供調查資料與地方主管機關顧主不得拒絕 以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
19618.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
19641.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
行政院提案第二十二條之三勞工遭受職場霸凌一項僱主提出申訴但被申訴人為最高負責人時得盡向直轄市或縣市主管機關提起申訴勞工一前項但書規定向直轄市或縣市主管機關提起申訴之期限應以下列規定辦理一自職場霸凌行為終了時起逾三年者不予受理二 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
19641.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
19656.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
职场帕林事件发生时劳工在职者其得于离职之日起一年内申诉单一签款规定有较长申诉期限者从期规定职项士或县市主管机关为调查第一项申诉案件得请专业人士或民间团体协助办理 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
19657.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
19680.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
指向市或县市主管机关依本法规定进行调查时申诉人被申诉人涉无药协助调查是个人或单位英语配合并提供相关资料被申诉人不得规避妨碍或拒绝前四项有关指向市或县市主管机关受理职场80申诉与最高负责人之范围处理程序调查方式及其他相关事项办法由中央主管机关定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
19681.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
19702.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
台湾民众党党团提案第六条之一,受雇者遭受前条第二项第三款不法侵害应向雇主提起申诉,但有下列情形之一则得尽向地方主管机关提起申诉一,被申诉人署最高负责人或雇佣人二,雇主未处理或不服被申诉人之雇主所谓调查或惩戒结果。 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
19703.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
19729.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
受雇者依前项但书规定向地方主管机关提起申诉之期限,因下例规定办理。1.被申诉人非具全市地位自知悉不法侵害时期,于二年提起者不予受理,自该行为终了时期,于五年者一同。2.被申诉人具全市地位自知悉不法侵害时期,于三年提起者不予受理,自该行为终了时期,于七年者一同。 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
19730.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
19755.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
有下列情形之一则依各款规定办理不受前项规定之限制但依前项规定有较长申诉期限则重启规定一不法侵害发生时申诉人为未成年得于成年之日起三年内申诉二不法侵害发生于本法实行前者得于本法实行之日起三年内申诉三被申诉人为最高负责人或雇佣人申诉人得于离职之日起一年内申诉 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
19756.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
19773.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
但自该行为终了时其余十年者不予修例申诉文一第一项但书规定向地方主管机关提起申诉后得予处分作成前撤回申诉撤回申诉后不得就统一案件再提起申诉台湾民众党党团提案第六条之二 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
19774.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
19801.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
地方主管機關為調查前條第一項但疏之不法侵害申訴案件得請專業人士或團體協助必要時得請警察機關協助地方主管機關依本法規定進行調查時被申訴人、申訴人及受邀協助調查之個人或單位應配合調查並提供相關資料不得規避、妨礙或拒絕地方主管機關依前條第一項第二款受理之申訴經認定不法侵害 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
19803.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
19816.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
行为成立或原成借结果不当者得令行为人之雇主于一定期限内采取必要之处置签调及前三项有关地方主管机关受理工作场所不法侵害申诉之范围处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
19818.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
19838.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
程序调查方式必要处置及其他相关事项办法与中央主管机关定制不法侵害之被申诉人为最高负责人或雇佣人时与地方主管机关调查期间申诉人得向雇主申请调查职务或工作形态制调查结果送达雇主之日起30日内雇主不得拒绝文范云等18人提案第22条之三 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
19840.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
19865.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
老公遭受职场霸凌向雇主提起申诉但有下列情形之一则得进向地方主管机关提起申诉一被申诉人属最高负责人或雇主二雇主未处理或不服被申诉人之雇主所谓调查或惩戒结果老公因前项规定向地方主管机关提起申诉之起现因一下列规定办理一自职场霸凌行为中了时其余三念者不予受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
19865.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
19882.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
2.职场霸凌事件发生时劳工在职者其得于离职之日其年内申诉。1.前款规定有较长申诉期限则已从其规定。地方主管机关为调查地下制申诉案件等委请专业人士、民间团体或只是第三方机构。 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
19883.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
19904.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
設立調查小組協助辦理地方主管機關依法規定進行調查時申訴人被申訴人及受邀協助之個人或單位應與配合並提供相關資料被申訴人不得規避妨礙或拒絕前四項有關地方主管機關受理職場霸凌申訴與最高負責人之範圍申訴處理程序調查方式及 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
19904.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
19922.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
其他相关事项是办法一除本法锁定事项外由中央主管机关定之第一项第一款弹书锁定被申诉人为政府机关购物之最高负责人时劳工向其上级机关购提起申诉为犯人的司法人提案第二十二条之五 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
19924.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
19940.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
雇主或事业单位接获申诉或知悉职场霸凌事件应依各事业单位职场霸凌申诉规范于三日内交由专责人员进行协调或调查处理。雇主事业单位或主管机关处理调查事件使得成立调查小组调查之。 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
19941.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
19967.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
調查小組成員組成任意性別不得少於三分之一外聘委員應佔成員總數二分之一以上若此場霸凌事件當事人屬不同事業單位前向調查小組成員應有申訴人現所屬事業單位之代表但申訴人另有要求則不在此限調查小組依本法規定進行調查時被申訴人、申訴人及受邀協助調查之人或單位應與配合並提供相關資料不得規避妨礙或拒絕 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].start |
19973.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].end |
19998.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[757].text |
委員劉建國等17人提案第22條之三勞工遭受職場派零項雇主提起申訴但被申訴人為最高負責人得盡向地方機關提起申訴勞工一件項規定向地方主管機關提起申訴之期限應下列規定辦理第一款第二款於行政院版同第三項地方主管機關為調查第一項之申訴案件得為請專業人士或地方團體協助辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].start |
20000.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].end |
20027.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[758].text |
地方主管機關一本法規定進行調查時申訴人被申訴人即受邀協助之個人或單位應與配合並提供相關資料被申訴人不得規避妨礙或拒絕前四項有關地方主管機關受理職場霸凌申訴之範圍處理程序調查方式其他相關事項之辦法中央主管機關定之第一項單書鎖定被申訴人為政府機關購物之最高負責人時勞工向其上級機關購提起申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].start |
20031.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].end |
20056.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[759].text |
委員審發會等18人提案第22條之三第1 2 3 4 6項與劉建國委員等17人提案同第5項前四項有關地方主管機關受理職場霸凌申訴與最高負責人之範圍申訴處理程序調查方式及其他相關事項之辦法由商務主管機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].start |
20059.349 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].end |
20063.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[760].text |
委員王育敏等19人提案第22條之3第1 2 4 5項與劉建國委員等17人同第3項 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].start |
20073.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].end |
20092.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[761].text |
地方主管機關為調查第一項之申訴案件因委請專業人士或民間團體成立調查小組調查之調查小組成員外聘比例不得低於二分之一被申訴人為政府機關最高負責人士調查小組成員全部外聘委員羅廷偉等18人提案同行政院提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].start |
20093.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].end |
20107.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[762].text |
委員郭玉琴等17人提案與行政院滿同委員郭國文等17人提案第22條之3第12346項與委員劉建國等17人同第5項與委員沈發慧等18人提案同 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].start |
20121.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].end |
20150.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[763].text |
民眾黨團提案第六條之三,公務人員、教育人員或軍職人員遭受不法侵害且行為人為最高負責人時,應向上級機關構所屬主管機關或監督機關申訴。前項所稱最高負責人或機關構、公立、學校各級、軍事機關構、部隊行政法人及公營事業機構各級主管涉及不法侵害行為且情節重大於進行調查期間有先行停止或調查、調整職務之必要時。 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].start |
20151.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].end |
20168.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[764].text |
得由其上級機關構所屬主管機關監督機關或服務機關構公立學校各級軍事機關構部隊行政法人或公營事業機構停止或調整其職務但其他法律別有規定者從其規定私立學校校長 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].start |
20170.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].end |
20198.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[765].text |
或各級主管涉及不法侵害行為且情節重大於進行調查期間有先行停止或調整職務之必要使得由學校主管機關或服務學校停止或調整其職務依前二項規定停止或調整職務之人員其案件調查結果未經認定為不法侵害或經認定為不法侵害但未依公務人員、教育人員或其他相關法律予以停職免職解聘、停聘或不續聘者 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].start |
20198.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].end |
20206.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[766].text |
得依各该法律规定申请复职及补发停职期间之本奉新年功奉新或相当之给予 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].start |
20207.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].end |
20229.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[767].text |
机关政务首长、军职人员其停职职务由上级机关或具任免权之机关为之委员范云等18人提案第22条之四职场霸凌被申诉人具权势地位且情节重大于进行调查期间有先行停职或调整职务之必要时雇主得暂时停职或调整被申诉人之职务 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].start |
20230.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].end |
20242.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[768].text |
经调查未认定为职场霸凌者停止职务期间之薪资应于补发委员范云等18人提案第22条之6雇主或事业单位处理职场霸凌调查事件应接获申诉或窒息后 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].start |
20243.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].end |
20262.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[769].text |
二个月内完成调查必要时得延长一个月并应通知申诉人及被申诉人等案件相关利害关系人调查小组处理职场霸凌事件调查完成后应将调查报告及处理建议与书面向申诉人被申诉人及其所属事业单位与雇主提出报告 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].start |
20263.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].end |
20279.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[770].text |
并以各事业单位职场霸凌惩处规范役处前项之调查报告应于调查完成后7日内以书面通知申诉人及被申诉人惩处措施应于雇主或事业单位收到书面调查报告次日起15日内以各事业单位规范处理之 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].start |
20280.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].end |
20304.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[771].text |
委員范雲等18人提案第22條之7申訴人或被申訴人若對調查或承接結果不負責的依本法第23條22條之3第1項第2款規定於收到書面通知次日起30日內進向地方主管機關提起申訴地方主管機關依本法規定進行調查時應於接獲調查申訴後7日內以書面通知申訴人是否受理地方主管機關接 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].start |
20305.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].end |
20328.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[772].text |
或调查申诉案件后除有不受理情事外应于7日内转交调查小组处理并于2个月内完成调查必要时得延长1个月至上霸凌之被申诉人为最高负责人或雇主时于地方主管机关调查期间申诉人得向雇主申请调整职务或工作形态至调查结果送达雇主之日起30日内雇主不得拒绝 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].start |
20330.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].end |
20358.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[773].text |
地方主管機關經申訴處理發現事業單位調查程序有重大瑕疵或有足以影響原調查認定之新事實新證據時得要求事業單位重新調查地方主管機關經依第一項情形處理申訴調查發現事業單位之處理結果有違法或不當必要時得依所設調查小組之處理建議對事業單位之處理結果進行改革或續名理由交回事業單位依法處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].start |
20359.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].end |
20381.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[774].text |
並追究相關人員責任僱主或事業單位於接獲地方主管機關重新調查的要求時應應調查小組其調查處理程序依本法之相關規定委員范雲等18人提案第22條之8主管機關與僱主或事業單位調查處理職場叛林事件時應對僱主或事業單位提供諮詢服務輔導協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].start |
20383.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].end |
20396.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[775].text |
事法監督或予以糾正行政院提案第二三條僱主應依其事業單位之規模性質設置安全衛生組織人員並訂定職業安全衛生管理辦法實施安全衛生管理及自動調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].start |
20398.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].end |
20425.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[776].text |
第二項 第三 第四項與現行法同第五項 第一項 第二項鎖定安全衛生管理應由僱主 僱主代理人或工作場所負責任總理並由事業單位及各級主管依其職責指揮監督所屬人員執行前四項之事業單位規模性質安全衛生組織人員職責管理自動檢查職業安全衛生管理系統建置及其他相關事項之辦法有商主管機關定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].start |
20428.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].end |
20443.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[777].text |
委員李坤澤等27人提案第23條第一項第6行除了增加身心安全衛生管理及與行政院版同第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].start |
20446.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].end |
20465.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[778].text |
第四行增加職業身心安全衛生身心兩個字第三項也增加第二行增加身心安全兩個字第四項第一項及第二項鎖定安全衛生管理由僱主及工作場所負責任重禮應用事業單位內容各級主管機關一職職者指揮監督所屬人員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].start |
20469.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].end |
20494.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[779].text |
前四項之事業單位規模性質身心安全衛生組織人員職責管理自動檢查職業身心安全衛生管理系統建置績效認可表揚及其他應遵行事項由中央主管機關定之委員劉建國等實踐提案第二十三條第一項第二項第三項第四項同行政院版第五項維持現行法 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].start |
20496.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].end |
20524.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[780].text |
委員羅廷輝等18人提案第23條同行政院提案委員黃秀芳等20人提案同委員李昆澤等27人提案委員郭益晴等17人提案同行政院提案行政院提案第24條第16條第1項所定具有危險性機械或設備及其他特定機械之操作人員雇主應雇用經中央主管機關認可之教育訓練或經技能檢定之合格人員充任之 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].start |
20524.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].end |
20549.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[781].text |
前項其他特定機械之種類及因據之容量與中央主管機關公告之第一項操作人員作業時因應第六條第一項第二項及第三項授權訂定之安全衛生設備及措施之標準及規則執行職務文流建國等17人提案第二四條經中央主管機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].start |
20551.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].end |
20578.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[782].text |
指定具有危險性機械危險性設備及其他特定機械之操作人員雇主應雇用經中央主管機關認可之教育訓練或經技能檢定之合格人員充任之前向所稱其他特定機械由中央主管機關公告之第一項操作人員作業是因本法及本法所發布之命令執行職務委員羅廷偉等18人提案及委員郭育晴等17人提案與行政院反同 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].start |
20580.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].end |
20609.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[783].text |
行政院提案第26條事業單位以其事業交付承攬時因事前告知該承攬人有關其事業工作環境危害因素與本法及有關安全衛生規定應採取制措施承攬人在承攬人就其承攬部分交付在承攬時應依前項規定辦理事業單位將其工作場所設備出租或出借他人使用時因事前告知其場所設備危害因素及安全衛生相關注意事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].start |
20612.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].end |
20637.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[784].text |
委員李昆澤等27人提案第26條第一項同線刑法第二項承攬人在承攬人就其承攬之全部或部分在交付承攬時亦應依前項規定辦理第三項事業單位將其工作場所設備出租或出借他人使用時應於事前告知該人及場所設備危害因素及安全衛生相關注意事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].start |
20639.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].end |
20658.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[785].text |
委員劉建國等17人提案第26條委員王玉明等25人提案第26條委員郭玉琴等17人提案第26條均與行政院滿頭委員羅廷偉等18人提案第26條 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].start |
20660.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].end |
20676.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[786].text |
第一項與現行法同第二項承攬人在承攬人就其承攬部分交付在承攬時應依前項規定辦理事業單位將其工作場所設備出租或出借他人使用時應與事前告知其場所設備危害因素及安全衛生相關注意事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].start |
20683.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].end |
20693.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[787].text |
行政院提案第27條事業單位以其事業交付承攬並與承攬人在承攬人之工作者共同作業時人事業單位應採取下列必要措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].start |
20697.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].end |
20722.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[788].text |
第一款第二款第三款與現行法同第四款相關承攬人安全衛生教育訓練之指導及協助第五款與現行法同第二項與現行法同第三項承攬人在承攬就其承攬部分交付在承攬時應依第一項第二款至第五款規定辦理之承攬人在承攬人應配合辦理第一項所定原事業單位採取之必要措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].start |
20723.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].end |
20742.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[789].text |
委員李坤澤等27人提案第一項第四款相關承攬人員及承攬事業兼職安全衛生教育訓練之指導及協助其餘第一項與行政院版同第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].start |
20746.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].end |
20774.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[790].text |
與行政院版同第三項承攬人在承攬人對於第一項原事業單位採取之承攬管理措施有配合辦理之義務委員劉建國等17人提案第27條委員王玉敏等20人提案第27條與行政院版同委員羅廷偉等18人提案及委員郭育群等17人提案第27條均與行政院版同 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].start |
20776.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].end |
20781.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[791].text |
為黃秀芳等21人提案第27條與李昆澤等27人提案第27條同 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].start |
20787.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].end |
20815.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[792].text |
行政院提案第二十七條之一事業單位將符合第十五條之一第一項所定一定規模以上之工程交付二個以上施工者施工時應指定施工者之一負責整體工程安全衛生統合管理責任前向今指定之施工者應執行整體工程安全衛生統合管理事項前向施工者之指定整體工程衛生統合管理及其他相關事項之辦法要遭到主管機關定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].start |
20821.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].end |
20846.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[793].text |
委員 劉建國等十七案提案第二十七條之一第十五條之一第一項鎖定事業單位將工程交付二個以上施工者施工時應指定施工者之一負責負整體工程安全衛生統合管理責任前項經指定之施工者應執行統合管理事項前項施工者之指定統合管理及其他應遵行事項之辦法莊作管計官定之 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].start |
20847.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].end |
20868.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[794].text |
委員羅廷偉等18人提案及委員郭玉琴等17人提案第27條之一與行政院提案同行政院提案第32條僱主對勞工因施以從事工作及預防災變所必要之安全衛生教育事項前向安全教育 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].start |
20869.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].end |
20892.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[795].text |
衛生教育訓練應由僱主自行辦理或交由中央主管機關認可之機關購學校團體等訓練單位辦理前一項是安全衛生教育訓練訓練單位之資格條件與管理查核認可評鑑及其他應遵行事項之規則由中央主管機關定制勞工對於第一項是安全衛生教育訓練有接受之義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].start |
20894.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].end |
20920.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[796].text |
為罹困者的二十七人提案第三十二條孤組對勞工因施以從事工作預防災變與預防身心遭不法侵害所必要之身心安全衛生教育及訓練負責或中高階管理人員參加由中央主管機關開設之促進職業心理衛生健全職場環境與性別友善之必要教育及訓練單一年度 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].start |
20921.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].end |
20945.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[797].text |
總時數不得低於12小時前二項必要之教育及訓練事項訓練單位之資格條件與管理及其他應遵行事項之規則由中央主管機關定之第二項之教育訓練費用由中央主管機關部分或全額負擔勞工對於第一項之安全衛生教育及訓練有接受之義務雇主中高階管理人員對於第二項之心理衛生教育及訓練有接受之義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].start |
20948.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].end |
20964.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[798].text |
為劉建國等17人提案第32條為劉廷偉等18人提案第32條與行政院判同為黃秀芳等27人提案第32條與李昆澤等27人提案第32條同 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].start |
20966.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].end |
20985.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[799].text |
委員郭玉琴等17人提案第32條與行政院版同委員李昆澤等27人提案第34條僱主因依本法及有關規定會同勞工代表訂定適合其需要之安全衛生工作守則報經勞動檢查機構被查後公告實施 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].start |
20986.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].end |
21011.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[800].text |
庄主管机关依照本法及有关规定会同心理卫生庄主管机关定定促进职业心理卫生健全职场环境与性别友善之必要规范进行公告劳工对于第一项安全卫生工作守则应切实遵行委员黄秀芳等21人提案第34条与委员李坤泽等27人提案第34条同 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].start |
21016.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].end |
21043.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[801].text |
為李昆澤等二期人提案第35條,中央主管機關得聘請勞方資方政府機關代表學者專家及職業災害勞工團體召開職業身心安全衛生諮詢會,研議國家職業身心安全衛生政策並提出建議其成員任意性別不得少於三分之一。為廖先祥等18人提案第35條,中央主管機關應聘請勞方資方政府機關代表學者專家及 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].start |
21044.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].end |
21072.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[802].text |
职业灾害劳工团体每年召开职业安全卫生咨询会研议国家职业安全卫生政策审议国内发生重大公安事件并提出建议前项学专家民间团体代表不得少于二分之一其成员之任意性别不得少于三分之一文工小林等23人提案第35条中央主管机关应聘请劳方资方政府机关代表学专家及职业灾害劳工团体定期召开职业安全卫生咨询会 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].start |
21073.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].end |
21097.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[803].text |
聯與國家職業安全衛生政策並提出建議勞方學者專家及職業災害勞工團體代表職人數不得少於成員總數二分之一其成員職人性別不得少於三分之一為黃秀芳等21人提案第35條同李昆澤等27人提案第35條為李昆澤等27人提案第37條 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].start |
21100.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].end |
21113.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[804].text |
事業單位工作場所所發生職業災害僱主應採取必要及急救強救等措施並會同勞工代表時調查分析及做成記錄第二項第三項及第四項 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].start |
21115.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].end |
21142.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[805].text |
與現行法同第五項增訂第五項事業單位工作場所發生職業災害雇主應提供受害勞工及受影響勞工必要之心理衛生輔導必要時應給予有薪休假為黃秀芳等21人提案第37條同理崑澤提案第27條行政院提案第39條工作者發現下列情形之一者得向雇主主管機關或勞動檢查機構申訴 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].start |
21148.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].end |
21176.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[806].text |
一、事业单位违反本法或有关安全卫生制规定。二、疑似罹患职业病。三、身体或精神遭受侵害。主管机关或劳动检查机构会确认前项雇主所采取之预防及处置措施的实时调查。前项制调查必要时得通知当事人或有关人员参与并得请专业人士或民间团体协助办理。雇主不得对一、本法提起申诉或协助他人申诉之工作者。 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].start |
21177.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].end |
21202.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[807].text |
予以解雇、降调、减薪、损害其依法令、契约或习惯上所应享有之权益或其他不利之处分雇主为前项不利处分则无效工作者因第四项规定之行为受有不利处分者雇主对于该不利处分与第四项规定行为无关之事时负举证责任委员范云等18人提案第39条 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].start |
21204.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].end |
21231.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[808].text |
第一項第二項與行政院盤同第三項前項之調查必要使得通知當事人或有關人員參與並得為其專業人士民間團體或指定之第三方機構協助辦理雇主不得對依本法提起之申訴或協助他人申訴之工作者與解雇將調減刑損害其依法令契約或習慣上所應享有之權益或其他不利之處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].start |
21234.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].end |
21257.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[809].text |
李崑澤等26人提案第39條第一項第二項第三項第四項與現行法通增訂第五項主管機關或勞動檢查機構接獲第一項申訴後因為必要之調查並於接獲申訴60日內將處理情形書面通知申訴人但無法以書面通知者對其他方式為之 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].start |
21260.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].end |
21286.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[810].text |
為劉建國等17人提案第39條第一項第二項第三項與行政院反同第四項修訂為雇主不得對依本法提起申訴或協助他人申訴之工作者於解雇降調減薪損害其依法令契約或習慣上所應享有之權益或其他不利之處分為王玉敏等19人提案第39條 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].start |
21289.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].end |
21311.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[811].text |
第一項第二項第三項與行政院提案同修訂第四項第五項為第一項提起申訴或協助他人申訴之工作者身份資料應予保密故主不得對依本法提起申訴或協助他人申訴之工作者於解雇降調減薪損害其依法令契約或習慣上所應享有之權益或其他不利之處分 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].start |
21313.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].end |
21335.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[812].text |
委員王玉明等二十五人提案第三十九條第一項第二項第三項與行政院提案同第四項僱主不得對依本法提起申訴或協助他人申訴之工作者予以解僱降調減薪損害其依法令契約或習慣上所應享有之權益或其他不利之處分委員翁小林等二十三人提案第三十九條 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].start |
21337.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].end |
21356.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[813].text |
第一項與現行法同第二項主管機關或勞動檢查機構為確認前項僱主所採取之預防及處置措施的實施調查並得為請專業人士或民間團體協助辦理第三項同現行法第四項僱主不得對第一項提起申訴或協助他人申訴之工作者予以解雇 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].start |
21357.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].end |
21376.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[814].text |
调职减薪损害其依法令契约习惯上所应享有之权益或其他不利之处分措施。为罗廷伟等18人提案第39条与行政院提案同。为郭玉琴等17人提案第39条与行政院版同。以上。 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].start |
21388.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].end |
21409.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[815].text |
行政院委員劉建國等17人委員羅廷瑋等18人委員郭育晴等17人提案第40條修正第一項三年為5年30萬元為150萬元予以現行法同委員盧明澤等16人提案第40條修正第一項第二具為至發生第37條第二項第一款至第三款之災害者予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].start |
21411.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].end |
21436.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[816].text |
行政院委員劉建國等17人委員郭玉琴等17人提案第41條修正第一項一年為三年18萬元為100萬元第二項如下法人犯前項之罪者處處罰其負責人外對該法人亦可以前項之罰金予以現行法同委員羅廷威等18人提案第41條第一項第二款如下二違反第18條第一項第29條第一項第30條第一項第二項 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].start |
21439.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].end |
21455.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[817].text |
第37條第4項之規定與議院版同行政院委員郭玉琴等17人提案第43條修正第一項續文30萬元為150萬元續文及第一款同現行法第二款文字第24條以下之文字為 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].start |
21459.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].end |
21485.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[818].text |
第一項第三十一條第一項第二項或第三十七條第一項第二項第四項之規定第三款至第五款如下三違反第六條第二項第二十二條之一第二項後段或第二十二條之二第一項規定至發生職業病四違反第十五條之一第一項第二項第二十三條第一項或第三十二條第一項規定至發生第三十七條第二項之災害 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].start |
21486.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].end |
21505.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[819].text |
五 違反第十五條第一項第二項之規定 按次處罰第六款同現行法的第四款 增訂第二項如下有前項規定情形之一者 主管機關得依事業規模性質或違反情節加重其罰還至法定罰還最高額二分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].start |
21513.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].end |
21518.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[820].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團提案第43條增訂第二項及第三項如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].start |
21520.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].end |
21545.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[821].text |
僱主違反地方主管機關一第六條之二第三項限期為必要處置之命令處新台幣三萬元以上一百萬元以下罰還僱主違反第六條之二第五項規定處新台幣一萬元以上五萬元以下罰還予以現行法同委員范雲等十八人提案第四十三條第一項續文與院版同第一款及第二款同現行法第三款據莫增列文字 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].start |
21546.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].end |
21555.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[822].text |
或職場霸凌予與院版同第四款及第五款同現行法的第三款及第四款申訂第二項同院版委員劉建國等17人提案第44條第一項第五款據莫為 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].start |
21565.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].end |
21576.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[823].text |
並得按次處罰 第二項守據為有前項規定行為之一者予以原版第43條同為原審發會的18人提案第44條第一項第4款莫具為 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].start |
21579.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].end |
21605.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[824].text |
第二十三條第一項或第三十二條第一項規定至發生第三十七條第二項之災害 第五款莫具為並得按次處罰予以院版第四十三條第一項同第二項與委員范雲等十八人提案第四十五條第二項同委員林淑芬等十九人提案第四十三條修正序文第二具為處新台幣五萬元以上三百萬元以下罰款予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].start |
21609.915 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].end |
21631.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[825].text |
委員羅廷偉等十八人提案第四十三條修正第一項續文第二句為儲新台幣十萬元以上一百五十萬元以下罰還刪除第二款默劇文字頓號第四項予以願反同委員郭國恩等十七人提案第四十四條第一項續文及第一款與委員審發會等 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].start |
21633.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].end |
21662.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[826].text |
十八人提案同第二款與現行法第四十三條第二款同第三款至第五款如下三違反第二十二條之一第二項後段或第二十二條之二第一項規定致發生職業病四違反第十五條第一項第二項之規定並得按次處罰五規避妨礙或拒絕本法規定之檢查調查抽驗市場查驗或查核第二項與委員審發會等十八人提案同 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].start |
21665.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].end |
21692.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[827].text |
行政院委員羅廷輝等十八人委員郭育晴等十七人提案第四十四條第一項守據違違議第七條第三項規定登錄或違反第九條第二項頓耗第一二四項據莫均刪除並得二字予以現行法同委員劉建國等十七人提案第四十三條第一二四項莫具均違並得按次處罰予以院版第四十四條同 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].start |
21693.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].end |
21697.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[828].text |
委員審判會等18人提案 委員郭文等17人提案第43條與現行法第44條同 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].start |
21705.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].end |
21724.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[829].text |
行政院委員郭玉琴等17人提案第45條修正第一項序文15萬元為75萬元第一款文字第23條第一項前面增列第22條之一第二項後段第22條之二第一項第二款第三項遁號第二款如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].start |
21724.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].end |
21730.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[830].text |
二違反第15條之一第一項第二項第17條第18條第三項第22條之二第一項第一款第26條第27條第27條之一第一項第二項第28條第29條第三項 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].start |
21739.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].end |
21755.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[831].text |
第33條或第39條第4項之規定增列第二項如下有前項規定情形之一者主管機關得益事業規模性質或違反情節加重其罰還至法定罰還最高額二分之一予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].start |
21756.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].end |
21783.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[832].text |
委員李昆澤等二十七人委員黃秀芳等二十一人提案第四十五條第一款及第四款如下一違反第六條第二項第三項第十二條第四項第二十條第一項第二項第二十一條第一項第二項第二十二條第一項第二十二條之一第三項第二十三條第一項第三十二條第一項第二項第三十四條第一項或第三十八條之規定經通知限期改善 借期未改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].start |
21785.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].end |
21798.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[833].text |
四 第二十二條之一第三項得案次處罰予以先行法同委員范雲等十八人提案第四十五條第一項敘文一三款與院版相同第二款如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].start |
21799.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].end |
21818.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[834].text |
二違反第十七條第十八條第三項第二十二條之二第一項第一款第二十六條至第二十八條第二十九條第三項第三十三條或第三十九條第四項之規定第二項守據為有前項規定行為之一者予以願反同 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].start |
21819.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].end |
21847.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[835].text |
委員劉建國等17人提案第45條第二項手續為由前項規定行為之一者予與院辦同委員神發會等18人提案第45條第一項第二款文字第26條之後為至第28條予與院辦第一項同第二項與委員范雲等18人提案同委員王玉明等19人提案第45條由下列情形之一者 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].start |
21849.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].end |
21867.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[836].text |
處新台幣三萬元以上 七十五萬元以下罰還 一違反第六條第二項 第十二條第四項 第二十條第一項 第二項 第二十一條第一項 第二項 第二十二條第一項 第二十三條第一項 第三十二條第一項 第三十四條第一項或第三十八條之規定 經通知限期改善 借期未改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].start |
21869.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].end |
21874.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[837].text |
2.違反第17條第18條第3項第26條至第28條第29條第3項第33條或第39條第4項及第5項之規定3.依第36條第1項之規定因給付工資而不給付委員羅廷威等18人提案第45條第1項續文第2句為處新台幣10萬元以上75萬元以下罰還予以願反同 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].start |
21894.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].end |
21905.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[838].text |
委員郭國恩等17人提案第45條第一項第二款如下 二違反第17條第18條第三項第22條之二第一項第一款第26條之第28條第29條第三項第33條或第39條第4項之規定與委員審發會等18人提案同 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].start |
21915.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].end |
21945.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[839].text |
行政院委員 羅廷威等十八人 委員郭玉琴等十七人提案第四十六條最高負責人經認定有職場霸凌之行為者處薪台幣一萬元以上一百萬元以下罰還違反第二十四條第三項規定至發生第三十七條第二項之災害者處薪台幣一萬元以上二十萬元以下罰還並應接受中央主管機關指定之獎席拒不接受獎席者按次處罰形象情形操作人員吸引雇主指示作業所致者不予處罰 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].start |
21946.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].end |
21964.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[840].text |
違反第二十條第六項第三十二條第四項或第三十四條第二項之規定者處心台幣三千元以下罰還第一項採儲全時效自直轄市或縣市儲管機關收受申訴人一第二十二條之三第一項代書規定提起申訴之日起算 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].start |
21965.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].end |
21989.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[841].text |
台灣民眾黨黨團提案第43條之一最高負責人或僱用人經地方主管機關認定有第六條第二項第三款不法侵害者處新台幣一萬元以上一百萬元以下罰還被申訴人違反第六條之二第二項規定無正當理由而規避妨礙拒絕調查或提供資料者處新台幣一萬元以上五萬元以下罰還並得按次處罰第一項採儲權時效 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].start |
21991.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].end |
22018.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[842].text |
自地方主管機關收受申訴人依第六條之一第一項代出規定提起申訴之日起算委員李昆澤等二十七人委員黃秀芳等二十一人提案第四十六條違反第二十條第六項第三十二條第五項或第三十四條第三項規定者處新台幣三千元以下罰還委員范雲等十八人提案第四十六條第一項及第二項同院版第一項及第四項第三項如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].start |
22018.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].end |
22046.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[843].text |
第一項採取權時效自地方主管機關收受申訴人依第22條之三第一項第一款代書規定提起申訴之類起算委員劉建國等17人提案第48條第一項同院版第46條第一項第二項第二據為至發生第37條第二項之職業災害者莫據為得按次處罰予以院版第46條第二項同第三項同院版第46條第4項 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].start |
22048.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].end |
22068.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[844].text |
第四項如下第一項採取全時效自地方主管機關收受申訴人依第二十二條之三第一項但書規定提起申訴之類起算委員審判會等十八人提案第四十八條第一項同院版第四十六條第一項第二項如下違反第二十四條第二項第三項之規定者 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].start |
22068.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].end |
22083.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[845].text |
儲新台幣一萬元以上五萬元以下罰還第三項同院版第四十六條第四項如下第一項採儲全時效制地方主管機關收受申訴人依第二十二條之三第一項但書規定提起申訴之日起算 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].start |
22084.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].end |
22106.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[846].text |
委員王玉敏等十九人提案第四十五條之一違反第二十二條之一第二十二條之三第四項及第二十二條之四規定者處新台幣三萬元以上一百萬元以下罰還最高負責人經認定有職場霸凌之行為者處新台幣十萬元以上一百五十萬元以下罰還第二項採儲全時效自地方主管機關收受申訴人提起申訴之日起算 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].start |
22107.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].end |
22124.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[847].text |
委員郭國文等17人提案第48條第123項與委員審發會等18人提案第134項同行政院委員羅廷輝等18人委員郭月琴等17人提案第48條增訂第4款如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].start |
22126.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].end |
22150.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[848].text |
四 勞工健康服務專業機構違反中央主管機關一第二十二條第三項規定所定之規則現行第四款及第五款 以列為第五款及第六款並修正第五款文字第二項為第三項予以現行法同委員李昆哲等二十七人 委員黃秀芳等二十一人提案第四十八條第四款如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].start |
22152.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].end |
22163.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[849].text |
四 訓練單位違反中央主管機關一第32條第三項規定所定之規則予以先行法同委員劉建國等17人提案第46條與院版第48條同委員審法會等18人提案第46條與院版第48條同 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].start |
22172.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].end |
22189.752 |
| transcript.whisperx[850].text |
委員郭柏文等17人提案第46條續文及第1235款與委員審發會等18人提案續文及1236款同第4款如下4 訓練單位違反中央主管機關議第32條第二項規定所定之規則 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].start |
22192.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].end |
22221.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[851].text |
行政院委員羅廷輝等18人委員郭玉琴等17人提案第49條修正第一項序文如下有下列情形之一者應公佈其事業單位雇主代行檢查機構驗證機構監測機構醫療機構勞工健康服務專業機構訓練單位或顧問服務機構之名稱負責人姓名其經主管機關處以罰還者應公佈該罰還處分之處分其日違反條文及罰還金額增訂第二項如下 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].start |
22223.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].end |
22231.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[852].text |
符合前項第一款或第二款情形並應公佈職業災害之發生日期發生地及罹災人數予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].start |
22233.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].end |
22260.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[853].text |
委員牛許廷等18人提案第49條修正序文第二句為由直轄市縣市主管機關報請中央主管機關公布其事業單位並於句末增列頓好處分其日違反條文罰還金額職業災害類型行業別發生日期及罹災人數予以現行法同委員李昆澤等26人提案第49條於序文句末增列 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].start |
22260.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].end |
22283.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[854].text |
逗號及處分金額處分日期違反條款及內容等其他相關資訊予以現行法同委員劉建國等17人提案第49條第一項序文倒數第二據為因公佈處分其日第二項如下符合前項情形並因公佈職業災害發生日期發生地及離災人數予以願反同 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].start |
22285.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].end |
22294.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[855].text |
委員翁曉琳等23人提案第49條修正序文第二句首字德為因並於序文句末增列頓號罰還處分發生職業災害者並應公布職業災害類型行業別發生時間地點及罹災人數予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].start |
22305.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].end |
22324.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[856].text |
委員李坤澤等二十七人 委員黃修芳等二十一人提案第五十條修正文字安全衛生為身心安全衛生第二項後段為中央主管機關得訂定績效平和鼓勵事業單位使用中央主管機關公告心理衛生良表及設置獎勵辦法予以現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].start |
22325.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].end |
22338.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[857].text |
行政院委員羅廷輝等18人委員顧玉琴等17人提案第51條第一項如下自營作業者獨立作業或以其作業交付承攬時適用第5條至第7條第9條第10條第14條第16條第24條第26條第27條第28條及其法則規定第二項與現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].start |
22346.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].end |
22353.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[858].text |
委員劉建國等17人 委員王玉明等25人提案第51條第一項如下第5條至第7條第9條第10條第14條第16條第24條第26條第27條及第28條規定於自營作業者亦適用之 其違反各該規定時適用本法罰則章規定罰規定處罰之第二項與現行法同 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].start |
22369.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].end |
22384.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[859].text |
行政院委員 羅廷瑋等18人 委員郭玉琴等17人提案第51條之一事業單位以數位方式經營商品交易或運送且交付無雇佣關係之個人親自旅行外送作業時適用第5條 第1項 第6條 第32條 第1項 第33條 第37條 第2項及其罰則規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].start |
22390.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].end |
22417.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[860].text |
委員劉建國等17人提案第51條之一第5條第1項第6條第32條第1項第33條及第37條第2項規定於事業單位以數位方式經營商品交易或運送且交付無雇佣關係之個人親自旅行外送作業時以實用之該事業單位違反各該規定時適用本法有關雇主義務之罰則處罰之委員李昆哲等27人委員黃秀芳等21人提案 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].start |
22418.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].end |
22437.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[861].text |
第52條修正文字第32條第二項為第32條第三項予以現行法同臺灣民眾黨黨團提案第55條本法施行日期由行政院定之本法中華民國全年全月全日修正之條文自公佈日施行繼續宣讀修正動議 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].start |
22440.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].end |
22460.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[862].text |
第一案第十五條之一事業單位將一定規模以上之工程交付規劃設計時應委託勞工安全衛生專業依其工程特性分析潛在施工危害但已符合危險性工作場所審查及檢查辦法規定之工程規模應完成相關審查之工程者外 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].start |
22461.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].end |
22475.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[863].text |
可於工程交付施工時由該營建事業單位於交付施工前由相關專業技師或開業建築師依據工程規劃設計及施工之特性分析潛在施工危害編制施工安全衛生圖說及規範 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].start |
22478.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].end |
22504.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[864].text |
並製作工程規劃設計安全分析報告評估施工風險採取必要之預防設備及措施納入施工計畫書及安全評估報告書送勞檢單位審查並確實執行前項工程分析與評估方法分析報告與施工計畫書內容要項及其他應遵行事項之內容依危險性工作場所審查及檢查辦法規定及其附件14、15內容事項撰寫之 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].start |
22506.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].end |
22527.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[865].text |
提案人 委員 蘇清泉 圖泉及廖偉祥 楊瓊英 宣讀完畢好 謝謝辛苦我們現在做一下決議職業安全衛生法部分條文修正草案計21案那條文內容及修正動議宣讀完畢另折席再行審查本次會議到此結束星期四早上9點繼續開會 現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].start |
22535.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].end |
22535.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[866].text |
你還沒把話聽清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].start |
22618.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].end |
22618.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[867].text |
謝謝大家 |