| IVOD_ID |
16941 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16941 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-15 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-20-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
20 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
財政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-15T08:31:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-15T12:30:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:58:38 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/b41997f390c3528e81c79e81327dd8bc4f7cda26dcb539f8b5dbf79f23f633bb4a1e0f843dec76ce5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-15T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告，並備質詢。
【10月13日、15日及16日三天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:22 - 12:30:00 |
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現在繼續開會請議事人員宣讀今日議程邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑芝 審計部陳審計長瑞敏率所屬單位主管列席業務報告並被質詢宣讀完畢今日議程我們先介紹在場的委員吳秉瑞委員還有林德福委員 |
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1781.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
好 那我們來介紹今天的與會的政府官員首先介紹行政院主計總處主計長陳淑芝主任秘書李奕鈞綜合規劃處處長陳梅英公務預算處處長徐永毅基金預算處處長潘清紅會計決算處處長許一娟 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1788.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1816.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
综合统计处处长蔡玉泰国事普查处处长潘宁鑫主计资讯处处长吴淑慧人事处处长刘永慧秘书是主任张嘉瑜甄峰是主任陈美伦主计是主任詹英军接下来我们介绍审计部审计长陈瑞敏 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1819.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1844.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
主任秘書 林建志第一廳廳長 周瓊怡第二廳廳長 陳振翁第三廳廳長 張志乾第四廳廳長 張國清第五廳廳長 陸冠聖第六廳廳長 葉迎池副省市主任 王挺龍 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1846.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1874.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
审计业务研究委员会执行秘书温中元审计人员训练委员会执行秘书张梅玉关键审计议题发展委员会执行秘书朱韵文资讯处处长邱团宝总务处处长肖瑞勇人事室主任黄炳黄会计室主任王雪玲 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1878.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1895.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
政風市主任黃繼德教育農林審計處處長林聖賢交通建設審計處處長李奕勳好 接下來介紹台北市審計處處長洪春喜新北市審計處處長張喜榮桃園市審計處處長張漢清台中市審計處處長吳景祥 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1907.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1935.913 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
台南市審計處處長王文柱高雄市審計處處長陳三明基隆市審計室主任吳婉瑜宜蘭縣審計室主任劉麗玲新竹縣審計室主任黃美蘭新竹市審計室主任郭麗玲苗栗縣審計室主任楊立芬彰化縣審計室主任謝淑芬 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1937.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1958.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
南投縣審計師主任李景梅雲林縣審計師主任楊美冠嘉義縣審計師主任陳信惠嘉義市審計師主任魏士儒屏東縣審計師主任李雪梅花蓮縣審計師主任邱燦興台東縣審計師主任蔣文新澎湖縣審計師主任莊淑美金門縣審計師主任吳維鈺 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1969.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1982.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
今日已成安排邀请行政院主纪总处及审计部列席业务报告那我们现在请行政院主纪总处陈主纪长进行业务报告那请主纪长这个业务报告简单扼要就好好谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1988.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2011.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
主席各位委員女士及先生今天1號列席貴委員會報告本總處業務概況自感榮幸本總處負責政府預算會計決算統計調查及主計資訊業務以下僅重要業務辦理情形提出報告敬請各位委員指教在預算業務的方面編制完成114年度中央總預算追加預算案 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2013.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2032.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
經貴院審議通過114年中央總預算追加預算案在8月29經貴院審議審議減列59億改列819億然後以原預算的收支剩餘彌平那本年度中央政府總預算稅入維持3兆1648億稅出增為3兆069億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2037.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2054.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
稅率稅出剩以1579億扣除債務反本1415億收支剩於164億第二個編制完成115年度中央總預算案送請大院來審議那115年度總預算案主要是配合行政院施政方針 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2055.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2071.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
将资源配置在均衡台湾基础建设跨域创新完备社会安全体系打造健康台湾强化国防安全参与国际社会等单纯施政重点那主要边税入是两兆8682亿税出三兆零 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2072.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2088.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
三百五十億稅率稅出差短一千七百二十七連同在完本一千兩百六十五億以後供需融資兩千九百九十二億元全數以舉借債務予以彌品三完成一百一十五年政府總預算案附屬單位預算局中計表 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2090.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2094.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
這個部分115年編列總收入基金是7,3258億總支出是7,0764億淨利2,494億元及繳庫2,323億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2104.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2117.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
那第四個完成編制中央政府丹納斯颱風和728豪雨災後一個復原重建主要是編列最初編列600億元那施行期間是從今年的8月19到115年的12月31 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2122.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2141.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
本次這個案子全數舉借債務支應金大約在8月29完成三讀審議的一個程序全數照列五是編制完成中央政府因應國際強勢強化經濟社會及民生國安任性特別預算案這個部分因為這個部分我們在施行期限是 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2143.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2169.722 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
今年3月12到116年12月31總共編列5500億元預留後續編列額度200億元那所需要的裁員主要是遺用以前年度稅基剩以4444億及舉借債務1056億元之印那已於9月11號送請大院來審議那各位6到11月的一個付表請參院然後請翻到12月 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2173.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2189.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
主要是會計決算業務的部分會編113年度總決算附屬單位決算中計表然後還有中央政府前瞻建設基礎計畫第四期特別決算經省計部在今年的7月29日完成審定 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2190.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2211.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
那第二個是深化政府內部控制一個監督機制協助機關落實內部控制自我監督維持機關內部控制有效性達成施政目標根據半年內部控制監督教育訓練並持續輔導行政院所屬各機關學校每年簽署內部控制書以深化機關內部控制監督各項作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2212.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2229.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
那三統計調查業務的部分辦理國民所的統計那本年第二季的經濟成長率為8.01主要是人工智慧和高速運算等科技應用需求應欠實質輸出實質大幅成長35.02資本形成也隨新興 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2232.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2236.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
實質成長4.87那民間校會實質成長0.49%上半年成長高達6.75%展望本年和下半年115年 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2247.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2267.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
115年因為AI信心持續強勁所以將我製造業顯著提升帶動我國出國主力的一個電子零組件通知通訊產業擴增所以這一個部分我們本年下半年的經濟成長預估大概是2.3那前年成長大概估約4.45%115年成長約2.81%那辦理物價統計的部分那我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2275.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2284.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
本年一到九月的消費者物價指數同期漲1.77%以實物漲3.51%影響最大核心CPI1.62那對於民眾對物價上漲感受較深刻經常購買的項目是每個月至少購買一次上漲2.74那明顯高於整體CPI的一個漲幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2300.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2322.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那本年1到9月的PPI生產者物價指數是去年比去年同期下跌1.53主要是油品化學材料和基本金屬隨國際行情而左跌那請看第27頁辦理人力供需各項抽樣調查本處按月辦理人力資源調查和受僱員工薪資調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2322.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2339.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
以起始提供最新的勞動市場供需還有員工勞動報酬調薪情形等資訊並運用相關的公務大數據去編算國人赴海外工作人數統計和薪資中位數的一個統計充實就業和薪資的一個統計的一個內涵 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2341.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2357.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
那114年1到8月的工業和服務業每個受雇員工經常性薪資平均是4.47709比113年同期增加2.98那如果扣除物價因素還成長1.12%那實質中位數的部分是38217元年增2.79那扣除那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2366.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2392.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
物價之後實質成長0.94那請看第20頁辦理基本國師調查是建立整體國家基本情勢基礎性發揮統計資源決策的功能所以114年我們辦理農林普查方案或行政院核定並分期相關機關配合辦理現在正辦理準備的一個工作並研擬115年工業服務業普查的相關的構想和方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2393.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2414.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
那五 辦理家庭收支調查的統計是未了解全體家庭收支概況按年辦理家庭收支調查113年調查結果每份可知倍所的高低將複數分為五組觀察最高20%家庭和最低20%家庭所的差距是6.14倍比112年略增0.02倍基尼係數是0.341比112年為增0.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2421.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2443.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
那令政府移轉支出改善所得差距達1.24倍如果不計移轉支出所得差距將為7.38倍那以戶為單位衡量家庭所得易受戶內人數消長來影響所以以美人觀察我國美人可支配所得的差距數是113年是3.92倍比112年度增零點 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2445.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2455.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
4 主計資訊業務的部分 辦理中央地方相關一個預算會計資訊業務中央政府稅劇會計資訊系統特種基金稅劇會計資訊系統地方政府稅劇會計資訊系統等以協助各機關完成115年度總預算案和附屬單位預算案還有113年度總決算還有附屬單位決算編制作業並完成中央特種基金會計 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2472.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2485.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
書表的一個電子化傳輸正式散線本處已經建置中央政府總預算查詢服務提供中央政府各機關辦理預算資料公開作業 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2486.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2495.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
二 辦理統計普查及資料倉儲和開放業務為提升統計普查作業效率及資料品質並辦理普查抽查模體地址整編114年農林榆木業普查試驗調查115年工研和服務業普查一個調查的網路填報相關系統我們徵修作業那經濟我們足跡資訊倉儲的一個系統推動資料治理並確保機敏資料的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2516.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2538.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
所以我們的開放預算決算和統計資料累計一千九百三十六六項至上線後就有兩百七十七萬餘人瀏覽十七萬餘人下載至於大院第十一屆第三會期第四次貴委員會會議主辦事項我們均以答覆貴委員會和相關委員在案 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2539.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2553.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
以上為本總署近期工作推展請請今後將持續精進主計業務發揮主計資源施政決策效能協助推動各項業務敬請各位委員女士先生鼎力支持祝大家健康快樂萬事如意謝謝謝謝我們陳主計長接下來我們請審計部陳審計長進行業務報告那一樣審計長請簡明扼要就好謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2570.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2595.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
主席 各位委員 理事先生今天應邀列席貴委員會報告審計部A5報告A5概況 自展榮幸本部依法掌理政府及所使機關財務之審計多年來成名大院委員的支持與鼓勵各項審計工作均能按照計畫執行藉此競表由衷的感謝114年度依法審核中央和地方7976個機關單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2599.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2605.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
收支金額二十七兆一元之執行之將審計業務辦理概況檢調報告之下 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2607.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2629.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
依114年度重要業務辦理情形依完成113年度總結算及特別結算之審核113年度中央政府總結算即副使單位結算及重計表中央政府全章基礎建設計畫第七期特別結算本部依依憲法第105條規定期限完成審核 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2630.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2638.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
各縣市政府的年度總決算易經各地方審計次數在法定期限內完成審核提出重要審核意見2456項 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2644.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2658.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
在審計綜合績效方面114年度構想審計業務執行結果截至8月抵止審核113年度決算依法修正稅入稅出決算增列16億元減列16億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2662.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2682.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
依法修正稅出租出決算增累42億元減累54億元績效性損失考核各機關績效報告監察案者40項提出重要改善意見者341項任何有可提升效能及增進公共利益提出建議意見1013項提出議警性意見232項 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2688.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2714.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
稽查財務上支維持報請監察院處理移送及移送司法機關偵辦者五項通知各機關查明處理者八十案三更系優化審核報告編報架構及報導方式一除去順化重要施政議題之查核專章二並以專章編會編行政機關優良實務案例推管扣算情形三 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2716.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2744.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
優化總結算審核報告資訊揭露四 積極推動數位審計發展與應用開發政府審計整合系統推動多元試劑整合破壞試劑中台三 應用人工智慧技術四 應用及新興資訊科技五 後足數位審計人力第五項更新強化審計功能及落實創新核心價值 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2746.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2773.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
六 更新推展公民參與審計近三年度已完成專家諮詢四百六十處公開徵詢民眾意見鑑識計八十五案並發佈一百並發佈一千六百零六組的重要審計諮詢二 年度施政計畫及預算執行情形一百四十四年度施政計畫既有二十二項重要計畫項目均按一定規劃辦理 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2775.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2799.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
二 本部及所屬一百一十四年度預算執行情形稅出部分截至八月底族累計分配市所獲益七千五百二十一萬餘元累計住戶市所獲益一千六百六十萬餘元佔分配市的百分之九十五點四一三 參大院第十一屆第三會期主重要事項之處理應四面答覆者七項 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2800.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2822.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
與韓報大院財政委員會及相關委員 其以九項列為損盒參考損棄工作的主要目的在於促進政府健全財務政績以協助國家良善助理本部當除夕加強推動各項損棄業務以善盡損棄主軸以上報告請請主席 各位委員 女士 先生 主教 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2824.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2843.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
好 謝謝我們陳審計長那現在開始詢答先做一下宣告每位初期委員發言時間8分鐘必要時得延長2分鐘每位列席委員發言時間5分鐘今日上午10點截止發言登記那現在依登記順序請登記第一位林德福委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2868.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2875.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
謝謝 謝謝主席是不是來請這個主席長 陳主席長好 我們請主席長委員好主席長你好 我請教因為賴總統在國慶演說時表示台灣今年的經濟成長率 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2890.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2904.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
這個預測值反而從3.3%大幅調到5.1%是亞洲四小龍之首那也將超越中國那我請問主計長賴總統說的台灣今年經濟成長率預測值是主計總數預測公布的數字嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2912.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2934.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
这是亚营公布的数字亚营公布因为本来对经济成长率的预测是上半年好下半年萎缩那我请问主计长现在对经济成长预测数字的上调到底是下半年经济好转还是下半年经济衰退趋于缓和 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2936.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2948.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
但是下半年的情況其實從六七八月到現在一直情況都是還不錯所以我們本來是說他可能會再下更緩和但是事實上情況並不是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2949.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2967.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
所以仍然有持續這個穩定的一個狀態所以我們其實我們自己主計總數出乎是4.45亞銀是5.1所以說你認為是台灣是一驚突起沒有受太大衰退的影響是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2968.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2993.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
影響的部分可能不是在下半年馬上就顯現可能要再往後延一點再看一下整個一個關稅的一個情形才會做一個變化主席長因為IMF總裁上個禮拜警告當前整個資產的估值這個資產估值已經接近25年前網路泡沫時期的水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2994.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3021.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
如果市場出現急劇下跌金融環境收緊將削弱成長的動能並讓整個發展中的國家更加的艱困那主席長 近期台灣出口成長可以說是靠AI的浪潮那我請問IMF總裁針對AI泡沫化的事情你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3022.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3045.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
因為目前的需求整個還是很強所以這個部分我們也是需要有所緩緩所以我們在任性預算裡面我們就編列針對就是中小企業一些的輔導的措施或者是說他要去怎樣去轉換投資這一個部分的一個輔導這個部分相關的經費我們都有編列所以這個部分我們已經為這個部分先做一些的準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3046.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3060.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
那個你認為台灣整個AI產業出口要是遇到泡沫化有沒有因應的對策還是只有深入你剛剛講的依賴編列任性預算來救AI產業是不是只有這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3061.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3076.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
以我們AI的狀況目前情況還是持續的一個看好所以這個部分我們將來也是必須要密切的觀察就是說它一個變化然後我們希望說能夠適時能夠提供給產業適時的一個協助是這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3078.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3095.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
這樣喔 那個主席長賴總統在國慶談話表示將透過新的國防預算來加速打造台灣之盾而且國防預算在2030年前達到國內生產毛兒GDP的5%來展現這個守護國家的決心那我請問主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3103.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3115.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
賴總統的台灣之盾國防經會你認為會不會發生任性特別預算排擠的疑慮造成盾的品項等級受到影響會不會 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3118.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3131.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
這個部分排擠是應該是不會啦不會因為以我們來講的話我們是逐年啦 逐年達到所以說妳很有信心認為不會是不是我們原則上也是希望說盡量能夠來 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3133.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3150.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
安排就是說整個一個資源的一個分配就是讓它能夠適度然後國防經會要成長也是一定的趨勢但是我們是怎樣讓它能夠在我們有限的資源裡面能充分運用到整個國防經會讓它能夠逐漸的一個成長 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3151.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3169.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
因為如果會的話那是不是代表政府會把沒有把錢花在刀口上還是執意胡亂的撒幣反之啊如果沒有排擠的疑慮那是不是意味著政府早先抗拒普發現金的說法根本就是欺騙台灣的老百姓是不是這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3170.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3177.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
其實所謂排擠的部分就是資源分配的一個情形但是資源分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3202.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3217.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
主席長因為我們去年超徵5283億很多其他鄰近的國家他們也都是超徵以後就普發現金你們現在變成有一點本末倒置 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3218.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3246.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
该编列在正常预算里面你没有把它纳进去然后再用任性用其他特别预算等等那个并不是说本来应该列在正常的预算里面结果你没有把它列进来那未来然后再以特别预算任性等等来做这样的操作你身为主计长我相信你清清楚楚心知肚明该怎么做我认为一定啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3247.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3262.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
不能讓你想怎麼樣做就怎麼樣做因為編列預算有一定的程序包括立法院預算區 法治中心他們也提出很多的建言我認為主席長您應該好好的聽進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3263.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3284.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
我要跟委員說明的就是所謂超徵五千多億事實上這個部分呢是有一部分是屬於要分給地方的所以以中央來講中央才三千多億那如果說以一百一十三年度審計部審定我們有八千三百九十三億的累計剩餘的這個數字那大部分第一個運用到特別預算的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3285.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3313.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
那個任性還有相關的一個經費之後呢我們剩下4444億那這個部分又投注在我們特別預算裡面那這個部分投注在特別預算特別預算我們都非常的謹慎都一定是有特別條例經過貴院審議之後然後才編列所以這個部分並不是隨隨便便說提特別預算就提特別預算都必須要經過貴院審議之後才能夠編列預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3314.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3335.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
不是說我們說想要提就提一定是先有特別條例通過之後才可以國防部長顧立雄禮拜一表示年底將提出特別預算無論是雷達系統 飛彈系統等等都會朝存活率高來購值俗話說攻擊就是最好的防禦換句話說 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3338.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3364.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
鮮花制人去削弱威脅並奪取戰場的主動權那我請問主席你認為有台灣之盾之外是不是也必須要擁有台灣之矛如果要拿台灣之盾去對抗中國之矛請問你認為在兩岸軍事預算建構下台灣之盾的優勢在哪裡你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3365.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3378.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
因為這個部分國防預算的部分其實是國防部的一個主責那我們是搭配它來做那我請問妳的看法是 我們如果針對因為現在地緣政治的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3380.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3404.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
一個變動所以這個部分我們本身如果是需要加強防禦的力量這個部分我們是贊成但是我們就看我們要如何整個在資源上如何來接濟如何來做分配如何來做編列是這樣如何來做分配是最重要不是美國講多少我們就配合多少對不對變成人家的小弟人家的棋子 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3405.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3429.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
那個立法院預算中心在115年中央政府總預算整體評估報告中示警表示特別預算是政府預算制度的彈性補救措施不應該變成常態化成為擴增國防預算的方式恐將扭曲整個年度預算的原貌現在國防部長說台灣之盾 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3430.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3439.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
要編列特別預算那我請問主計長到底編列年度預算適當還是特別預算比較合理你的看法呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3439.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3462.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
因為年度預算它規模是有一定的如果說要大量的一個增加它本身在整個一個預算的制度上面是沒有辦法容納所以一般光是國防部每年例行性的預算我們大部分都是放在年度預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3462.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3480.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
如果比較特殊的需求他有提出特別預算這個部分我們再就整個一個裁員的一個部分特別來可以預考因為我那天問過顧立雄我說我們買武器還有多少武器在美國錢給了武器沒給我們他不敢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3481.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3511.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
對不對 那你一直編今年又編9495億我們不是說不要防禦但是最起碼你錢給人家 對不對給了人家結果武器什麼都沒來然後又要給錢 一直累積加上去你認為這樣合理嗎 這樣可以嗎他不敢答喔 說我回去研究研究研究以後也沒有提出來全國人民都需要了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3511.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3530.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
他這是涉及到合約的一個訂定啦譬如說他預計的交易給多少年了呢都沒有給我們武器就存放在那裡錢給的武器也沒有給你說我們身為立法委員是不是應該要監督不是讓你為所欲為給了錢以後反正就給錢就好了對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3532.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3549.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
我是認為站在主計的立場審計的立場真的你們要好好的把該做的要把它把持好不是任何我們一個單位提出來就為所欲為以上謝謝林委員接下來我們請吳秉瑞委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3560.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3583.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
主席麻煩請陳主席長我們請陳主席長委員好主席長早是我有看到媒體報導說行政院他現在要提出財政收支劃分法的草案是要送到本院來審議那這個你有參與討論嗎有那這個財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3589.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3615.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
不是只有收還有支那收的部分當然就是收進來的稅收如何分配包括中央地方垂直分配跟各縣市政府的水平分配但是支的部分基本上就是要先了解中央跟地方的權責還有各地方政府的權責如何劃分這樣對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3618.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3640.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
所以最近我看到媒體上講了很多衝突我就覺得很奇怪這不能好好談嗎 譬如說地方政府都說我們以前蘇貞昌院長時代做到斑斑有冷氣 現在說電費地方政府說你中央要繼續補助中央的講法是因為財政收支劃分法 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3641.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3662.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
在野黨藍白在立法院多數所以把一大塊一口氣拿了幾千億去地方了嘛所以中央現在的財政能力跟以前是不能相比況且啊這個底下一個很重要的因素就是國教啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3663.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3686.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
國民基本教育中小學本來就是地方政府的權責那裡地方政府斑斑要冷氣的這個建制是中央出的前面幾年在中央財政有餘裕然後財政收支劃分的時候還比較充分的時候我來支持這個電費那一年的電費在這一部分總共是多少你知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3689.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3704.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
電惠的部分大概17.2億關於斑斑有冷氣的部分水電惠的補助啦斑斑有冷氣大概是12.6億那他給你拿了幾千億之後他連這十幾億都不要付了所以網路上一個比喻啊爸爸媽媽買手機給我 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3708.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3724.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
連手機的網路費都要你還要繼續出是不是這樣的概念是 因為這一次財化法它總共分配就是說通過之後我們要分配給地方就是4165億然後它裡面又加4165億是預估值如果你的營業稅將來台灣的GDP繼續成長對你的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3733.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3758.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
會分配給地方的還會更多對那所以這個部分它其中又有一個我對一般縣市補助又必須維持2,501所以兩個合起來就將近15%那15%裡面其實這個部分是包括以前相關的市權並沒有移轉那第二個它分配給各縣市它的均衡它很大的一個差異所以有一些比如說比較那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3761.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3784.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
商業發展不是那麼的一個快速的一個縣市他就整個人吃虧所以這個部分我們整個分配下來均衡不一樣所以很多的縣市其實他是受到很大的一個那個所以我們已經被破壞了就是沒有去均衡各縣市財政還有給各位一個相等的一個待遇的一個能力了 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3785.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3809.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
講到錢就傷感情 大家都掙錢希望自己手上的錢越多越好可是談到收支的時候就要關於你要做什麼工作的分配我覺得要從工作的分配上面才來去看收入應該要怎麼樣來分配所以我是希望因為這個草案你還沒有提過來 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3810.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3837.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
那我也不知道提過來在本院能夠通過的機會有多大現在立法院不太講道理大家就講政治立場就專門在做政治攻擊所以要好好的把這個道理跟社會大眾說清楚基本上所有無論是中央政府或地方政府的稅收都是全民的納稅錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3839.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3856.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
那這個納稅錢應該要怎麼用基本上要看你負擔了什麼工作要負擔了多少工作 需要用多少錢這樣邏輯才是正確的而不是先設建再劃法就是我就給你多少錢那你要做什麼工作不知道那你隨便你亂花 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3858.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3874.907 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
我想民眾不希望這樣狀況無論是中央政府或地方政府他都不需要這樣的狀況對不對因為當初市權並沒有劃分出來而且市權很多都必須要做修法才能夠去做改變所以我們不得不就必須要把原來 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3876.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3899.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
屬於地方政府應辦的事項然後轉給地方去辦就是原來中央補助的一個部分改由他的統籌分配稅款的相關去支應但是這個部分呢其實譬如說我們以往的一般性補助包括計劃性補助都是屬於地方應辦的事項然後中央佐與補助所以這個部分呢當然有一些縣市他會覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3900.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3912.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
我這個拿到了錢但是他又不想做這些他原來硬辦的事項所以我們必須還是必須跟他引導讓他去做這些一個屬於原來地方硬辦的一個事項對啦 我剛剛講除了電費之外現在又在講那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3915.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3941.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
中小學營養午餐的那個補助各式各樣的問題其實都看到枝微末節沒有看到它的根本要從事權的劃分才來決定財政的分財務財錢的分配那你事權劃分的部分不講清楚所以我是希望行政院在提出這個草案到本院來的時候連帶這些東西都要跟社會大眾做清楚的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3942.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3968.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
不然的話每一個問題拿出來的時候個別的地方政府都是會站在他自己的角度看事情你剛剛講的有一個問題將來一定會面臨搶稅的問題因為你的營業稅既然現在改成是中央代收其實是地方的錢那過去的觀念我的營業總部設在哪裡我的營業稅在哪裡繳 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3969.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3996.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
開玩笑那以後台北市都是櫥窗我們新北市都是廚房桃園都是廚房大家的工廠開在中南部開在我們這些地方結果他的營業總部設在台北市那營業所有都在台北市交這個不公道這個已經講了幾十年了但是如果這一次沒有辦法好好地把這個法律釐清以後的地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3997.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4011.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
你這個總部不簽到我的工廠如果在我這個地方總部不簽到我這個地方來的話我每天要給你做一些奇奇怪怪的消防檢查 公安檢查每天來給你檢查逼你要把你的營業總部簽到我這個地方政府來 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4012.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4037.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
會出現這樣的亂象喔是是 謝謝委員這個部分呢財政部已經針對這個所以他要做一個統一的劃分的一個公司去做涉算或者把一些農地比較佔的一個部分是不是要提升要做一個統一涉算這個是草案要向社會大眾說明是的本院不一定會接受本院現在有多幾票就對方的意見就是完全不予考納採納都採用突擊式的立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4038.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4066.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
都到要表決前才提出他的修正案我們連看都沒看過就表決過啦然後你們又平常又不做充分的說明所以社會大眾立法院透過什麼法律搞不清楚啊連立法委員都搞不清楚你知道嗎我們會盡量來做都是機密啊到了要表決前五分鐘才提出他的修正案怎麼拿到這樣的立法方式所以這件事情對國家的影響發展非常的大 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4067.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4086.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
我個人是認為 正本清源 事權的劃分先談清楚事權劃分清楚之後 因為需要辦事 需要多少錢 然後才談錢的分配要從最上游整個釐清下來 整個事情才能夠清清楚楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4087.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4108.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以這個部分我們國化會已經針對這個部分譬如說原來中央一般性補助和計劃性補助包括整個市權所謂的一個作用法相關的都在做一個檢討那哪些是必須中央持續補助的要維持或者哪些要回歸地方那整個國化會都有已經在做一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4109.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4118.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
一個這個研究還有一個跟部會來做討論那所以這個部分也會並同我們整個才化法的一個修正來整個疫病來提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4119.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4147.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
主席我今天的諮詢你還是沒有聽懂我一個關鍵的地方就是這個要向社會大眾說明因為本院是一個比力量的地方比票數的地方不是比道理的地方所以你們如果對社會大眾沒有辦法說明讓社會大眾能夠信服的話在立法院來你們是絕對把你改得亂七八糟扭曲了我新北市12個立委要表決的話我們會輸你們嗎所以如果變成這樣就糟糕了 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4148.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4170.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
所以我們對於這個國家很重要的一個法律如何來做這個要趕快想既然行政院草案要提出來一定要對社會大眾充分說明充分說明之後才能夠避免這些滋為莫及的爭執才能夠正本清源談到問題的根本好不好加油對社會大眾充分說明是 謝謝 謝謝委員好 我們謝謝吳委員接下來我們請賴社保委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4186.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4191.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
謝謝主席以及各位先進有請主計長我們請陳主計長委員好你好那麼今年的GDP要成長大概多少 今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4204.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4226.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
目前我們大概是4.45我們自己4.45但是因為還有幾個月嘛你那個是8月底的嘛對 差不多那個是8月底的數字嘛9 10 11 12這幾個月因為有一個變數就是我們台美或者美台關稅在10月底才 傳息會以後才會確定這個會不會影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4230.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4257.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
這個也會影響所以我們會逐漸緩和會比較低還是比較高比這個數字低還高我們預測應該也不會低很少我們本來當初在預估的時候預估是比較低但是現在是有逐漸緩和上來一個趨勢的所以大概今年你的預估大概差不多4%左右4.45%將近4.5%4.45%是在8月底的時候預估的我說今年底 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4257.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4284.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
但是亞銀估的部分是5.1所以亞銀在估算的時候對我們估5.1你認為不會這麼高嗎我們應該也趨近4.45是高估還是低估 你告訴我有一點低估4.45低估央行他估的比我們還高央行估多少 4.5多 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4285.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4289.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
4.5多好不好 持續注意是CPI現在看了很低才1.25 對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4294.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4322.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
可是老百姓感覺物價漲很多餐廳現在一粒一百塊都買不到對 它主要是食物主席長你也跟我說一下為什麼你CPI看起來這麼低可是老百姓感覺物價一直漲主要是因為它石油還有一些材料的一些原物料它下降它下降的幅度因為這不是說屬於經常購買但是經常購買比較有譬如說水果它就 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4323.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4349.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
水果長很多長很多 水果蔬菜但是蔬菜它現在已經有逐漸緩和了蔬菜因為它現在颱風過後之後它去復根之後又逐漸都已經改善了所以現在是水果比較貴還有一些就是房租 醫療那現在就是我們的食物的部分就是平常每日在飲食的部分它是比較高那這個部分差不多2.64那2.64食物的部分那個感覺就很大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4353.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4373.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
感覺不是1.25喔1.25是整個的平均跟老百姓有關是2.64食物的部分是2.64超過央行總裁的警戒性他是想2%所以我們大概能夠忍受的CPI大概2%了 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4374.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4387.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
是目前我們大概一到八月份是1.77左右1.77是1.77左右所以我們主要是因為譬如說紅隊也漲了我再問你另外一個題目 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4390.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4405.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
賴總統有說了大概台灣之盾要打造這個T-DOM提到了要編一照的特別軍購條例請問這一照你開始編沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4406.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4432.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
目前還沒有他11月份就要提出來但是他要先提相關的條例經過會員來審查之後我們才會籌編條例什麼時候開始出來目前他已經有在相關開會什麼時候可以出來這個我們可能要問一下國防部真正的日期是什麼時候是這樣現在那個主席長如果數字有錯請你指正我們的債務餘額5.8兆這個對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4438.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4453.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
5.8兆因為它隨時是在變動沒有 這純量的概念沒有哪裡變動亂講純量的概念5.8兆是確定的如果再加一兆那幾乎就是全部是舉債 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4455.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4465.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
6.8兆是什麼概念原來我們台灣人一個人平均的債務的負擔25.6萬左右25 26萬左右就提高到29萬將近30萬這個東西很可怕這個數字很可怕我跟委員報告我們縱使一兆也不是一年就一兆而是分差不多七年到十年我知道可是這樣一年差不多一千 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4481.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4501.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
一千億左右那跟我們現在相關的一個負擔是差不多的啦所以它不是一次就一兆元不是這樣的啦我現在跟你講存量你跟我講流量你那個每一年每一年那是流量的概念我現在跟你講存量的概念下來因為這個5.8兆是確定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4504.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4524.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
然後呢你再來加一兆那就變6.8兆就是不管幾年啦3年5年7年10年total就是一兆這個債務要負擔的但是每一年的稅入稅出的情形不一樣阿你又在講流量我跟你講存量嘛你要搞清楚存量我跟你講存量就是我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4525.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4547.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
我們的所有的納稅 我們叫tax payer納稅人 現在不僅僅納稅人我們的小孩子 統統加起來一個人是29.6萬 創歷史新高好 我再跟你講一個東西你現在來講的話因為大家關心你來大家就想到統籌分配稅款其實給地方政府是統籌加一般加計劃這三條錢加起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4550.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4575.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
你統籌分配收款多給了10,100可是你拿回去2,600實質上你就給地方1,500而這裡面你們這裡面不知道怎麼去弄了動手腳還怎麼樣有九個縣市你原來這三個加起來比去年來少九個縣市是對吧是對吧這九個是哪九個 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4577.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4588.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
目前大概是有台南 彰化 嘉義縣屏東縣 澎湖縣 基隆市金門縣 連江縣 還有嘉義縣台南市 彰化縣 嘉義縣 屏東縣澎湖縣 基隆市 金門縣 連江縣 嘉義縣所以這九個縣市等於 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4601.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4618.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
等於115年他的比114年都還低啊是對不對 後來你怎麼辦我們希望說能夠在統在那個一般性補助款裡面能夠維持說他跟去年度一樣但是計劃型就少啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4620.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4636.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
計劃型你把它扣掉了啊但是三項合起來維持114年度的額度就等於是說他計劃型少了就其他的會增加所以他總額度是不變的我問你這九個縣市不夠的部分你有沒有補他錢啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4637.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4653.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
對 我們預計是希望能夠透過一般性補貼來跟他補補多少錢TOTAL至少補到跟114年不一樣全部多少錢啊 多少錢啊 全部多少錢這個部分我們還要看幾十億喔 我們請那個沈記長來主席長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4662.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4667.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
好 董委員好你好 沈縣長先恭喜你繼續努力要效能好 我們來看 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4673.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4695.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們現在很在乎的就是說我們拼命要買美國的武器錢付了貨沒有到現在總共已經有200億美金付了但是沒有到這還有200億美金的貨沒有到比如說具體的就是你們的報告F16V特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4696.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4708.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
那時候省很清楚2500億的特別預算到今年的6月底匯出去47.2億美金總金額59.07億的六成總金額這個就是飛機的錢飛機的錢第一架 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4717.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4741.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
原來說112年的1月出場現在delay到114年的Q1才出場但是出場是還在美國Q1出場在美國所以第一架都還在美國現在就是因為美國全世界看比較危險的烏克蘭就給他什麼地方危險給他台灣就一直排後面台灣比較乖 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4743.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4769.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
那美國說115年的Q3開始交115年的Q4交完可是萬一如果又delay因為一直delay了原來講112年1月份要出場現在改到14年delay了足足兩年請問你按照審計法如果特別預算我們這個條例到115年底要執行完畢如果那時候還沒有執行完畢怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4771.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4795.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我們在結算法裡面有一個保留制度他可以執行完以後四年裡面可以列保留如果四年內還沒有用完呢四年內沒被保留一般我們會通知他你已經到了結算法的可以保留的日期你還要不要執行不執行的話我們會把他減列就收回啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4797.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4801.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
就把他收回如果不執行就收回了對 如果不執行我們會他的整個檢討如果他已經做了這個可能給他一點點時間他可能就完成了那我們還會給他保留現在常常有那種國防部常常買飛機買什麼的買那個錢交了可是東西不來審計部的意見怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4819.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4823.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我們有像這個飛機這個我們說你錢已經付了飛機都沒來我們希望他不要按他的那個工程進度付錢所以我們檔下他差不多12億美元檔下12億美金366億台幣這個是我們最後小點 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4842.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4856.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
你要不要督促一下國防部我們講了半天了國防部也不太理把軍售改成商售啦這樣子的話我們就可以降低對美的順差啦這一個很重要啊審計部要不要把這個列為你的審計重點 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4857.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4873.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
因為這個受及國家的一個很大的政策你不敢講不是說不敢講因為要整個評估商售有商售的好處商售也有商售的毛病這整個風險也很大因為這個來講的話 均收的話我就沒辦法算在我的貿易順差裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4880.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4885.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
我如果這樣一來的話 買的話我的貿易順差就會降低我的關稅不會被扣那麼高這個可能貿易量的話去檢討那個可能比較壞去思考一下好不好審計的意見放進來吧好 我們謝謝賴委員接下來我們請郭國文委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4912.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4913.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
謝謝主席 有請主計長跟沈計長我們請陳沈計長 陳主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4922.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4949.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
委員好兩位好我想今天問的問題跟兩位都直接相關可以的話就自由搏擊可以不用依序而來來第一個在總統其實在國慶的談話當中特別講了一句話讓人滿有感就是好的數字要變成好的生活才會有感但是好的生活要有感其實要落實在政策當中本席看一看其實兩位是關鍵的一個角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4950.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4960.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
你要如何讓人民有感第一個就是說你從數據來看那個從各種數據來看台灣目前幾乎是屬於史上最富有的一個年代 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4961.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4981.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
但是你看相關的數字最高20%的部分成長將近4倍人均的部分成長3.67倍平均薪資的部分成長2.27倍股市總值成長26.51倍但是最低20%的家庭財富minus 1%兩位你會不會覺得很有感經濟學所說的下盛的可能性幾乎在這個數字當中看不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4990.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5020.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
所以這裡頭過去這30年來相關的數字又增加這麼多政府不是沒有作為政府的作為在哪裡減稅 壽星階級 總產階級基本工資 勞工階級但是偏偏這一群人在社會安全網的網絡當中都沒有存在的他必須透過社會救助的體系而本溪在這次救災的過程當中非常的有感 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5021.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5047.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
有感覺說這個基層是增了很多社會邊緣戶增加很多所以說真正要強化任性的部分在社會安全網之外的部分的社會救助反而是非常重要我不曉得兩位有沒有去了解過到底台灣目前有多少的窮人貧窮性的定義在哪裡我現在隨便抓一下最近媒體報導韓國需要救助的下流老人高達40% |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5049.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5058.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
OECD當中最高 連日本就20可是台灣這個部分都沒有統計兩位長官 是不是要面對一下這個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5061.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5087.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我們對這個漢委員的想法有同感我們發現福利政策綱領這個貧窮線這個問題十幾年沒有修我們一直通知他通知衛福部要去檢討他衛福部我們還是在因為現在的熱術通知不要推給衛福部的感覺因為這個是要修福利政策綱領 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5088.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5099.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
那要去面对这个问题那个主委长 卫护部你也可以有机会跟他说你去看 我让你看一个数字整个低收入户的这个数字年年减少 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5101.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5126.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
从1.46到1.13我都很怀疑组织长是不是要控管这个金流有关系控管预算有关系你去看整个台湾的这个贫穷率只有1.5%只有1.5%欧洲德国的部分有16.7法国有14.2瑞典有15美国相当于11我们才是人家的1%而已很难有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5127.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5147.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我也不相信嘛 這定義的問題嘛你如果去參照國外的經驗一般而言從社會安全網絡的角度最基礎的部分大概人口數的10%大概10%而我們低收入戶占人口數的只有1.13%而已加中低收入只有2.26%總共有50幾萬如果從整個最低的資產剛剛講的那20%30年來薪資沒有變而且又縮水的部分至少500萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5156.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5173.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
有的人口数大概是10%我已经讲这么多主席长你该发挥一下了吧是 这个部分我也在跟委员报告就是有相对的贫穷率这个我们算了大概是7.57那当然因为像美国它是比较多是18.1日本是15.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5175.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5202.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
南韩是14.9%这所谓的相对的贫穷率但是我们一般我们都是就20%和最低20%和最高20%之间的一个差异我们倍数我们都譬如说我们个人是维持在3.92%然后家庭是维持在6.11%将近10倍统计都是你在统计的你相对贫穷率这个预算中心也帮你 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5203.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5221.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
算过大概是6到7%6到7%都比你现在一点多还高很多 对不对所以你们基本上不敢松绑第一码又不肯修法喊了十几年了都没有变所以说100年来这左右的差不多100户左右的这个弱势边缘户你要去怎么处理 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5222.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5252.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
一定要要求这个问题像我们今年长照的部分我们长照2.0十人集到长照3.0我们就增加了227亿长照有增加我没有错我现在跟你谈的社会救助那社会救助的部分这个部分我们也是都是尽量能够希望说能够来扩大范围来给予補助那个省厅长 主席长我再跟你讲你去看整个关键在哪里就政府把省钱当成最高的美的 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5252.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5280.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
不会花钱政府支出不足我算数字给你看中央政府占GDP的比重我国政府只有占11%加地方政府才是17%这数字没有错吧OECD的国家是平均44%主席咋你不要再当灭绝师太了本席也不会要求你当财神也只是一定要当个王母娘娘可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5281.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5310.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
普度中 森林下我们才11%人家平均OECD是14%日本去年39.4%我们不是先进国家吗我们不是财政很好吗你每天都说要还债好 我跟你讲债务的数字好了马英九2012的时候最高的数字政府的财政最惨所有GDP的39.5是最近法定数字的45我们现在多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5312.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5318.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
25對不對還是23 24對啊 20出頭耶這種情況底下我們明明有錢不是沒有錢我們是經濟高成長低負債的情況底下為什麼要扣這些窮人的錢呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5332.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5350.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
這丟臉 你知道嗎所以要如何讓總統這句話真正的落實美好的數字可以轉化成美好的日子你有責任 兩位有責任一個是源頭管理 一個是事後監督 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5352.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5380.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
沈縣長你最後寫報告你這一部分能不能寫一份報告給本席一個月沈縣長 沈縣長 還有主計長誰要負責我們來寫好 沈縣長你來寫寫有效的一種方式站在一個審計觀點當中要求這些相關部會讓總統的這個美意得以落實得以落實美好的數字竟然沒有辦法落實到美好的生活20%的人30年來過的日子都一樣越來越慘 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5385.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5409.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
這真的很丟臉 你知道嗎還有一個部分基礎建設的部分 錢要花在刀口上要花在刀口上那個省議長你現在在107年之前你都說推動了18年我們共同管溝的部分才完成了614.9公里 對不對這顯然不夠不夠台灣的過去花了那麼多特別預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5410.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5426.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
在做了很多所謂的前瞻計畫那顯然是不足嘛你是不是從審計的觀點來去做一個整體的檢討來認為台灣現在需要的前瞻的這個計畫是什麼這才是真正強化社會韌性我們強化社會韌性有兩種工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5427.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5452.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
一種是法制的工程 一個是硬體的工程我剛剛跟你講的是一個法制面的一個工程這是強化社會韌性另外是硬體面的一個工程強化社會韌性所以說我們剛剛從一個法制面的現在從一個硬體面的能不能請那個 沈院長你也待了這麼久你未來還會待六年你接下來這一份報告當中你有機會追六年 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5454.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5472.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
主席長 你的任期也會相當的久我希望你能夠轉變一下角色你看喔 除了共同廣告之外我們強化能源的這個部分這一次因為那個斷電 斷訊很多 這個都是在基礎建設的時候可以用 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5473.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5501.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
有沒有 這部分我還是要再請那個審計長你從你過去的一些長期以來在審計部門也曾經在主計部門待過的角色當中你再寫一份報告可以不可以可以這兩份報告寫出來我們來建構一個屬於法治面的一個社會韌性還有一個基礎工程面的社會韌性把錢花在刀口上我也請主計長改變一下角色不要再當滅絕師太 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5504.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5531.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
當一下王母娘娘 好不好然後最後呢你現在就可以當王母娘娘最後一個你看我們最近的一個特別條例丹奈斯颱風的特別條例第一筆用到的錢就用在花蓮丹奈斯颱風耶用在花蓮在車輛受損的部分就有五萬然後機車就有一萬放在台南的時候 情何以堪台南中央沒有拿到任何錢而且地方給一萬跟五千 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5534.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5537.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
這個部分他有增加250億他增加30億現在就動用了對 他在30億的預備金當中動用了1億那既然30億里頭可以動用到花蓮為什麼不能動用到台南 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5549.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5570.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
能不能請主計長跟相關部會講一下思考一下把這些一樣要用在刀口上把這個特別條例或強化社會韌性條例當中構思一下同時在進行所謂的社會工程的這個韌性的建構還有法治工程的一個社會韌性的建構有沒有可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5572.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5581.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
我不相信這兩個特別條例下去之後這兩種社會韌性就可以建立起來我不相信但是從這兩個特別條例開始然後再從那個沈記長這兩個報告繼續延續好不好好 感謝兩位好 謝謝郭委員那沈記長兩份相關報告一個月再寫給這個郭委員接下來我們請賴會員委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5599.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5602.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
謝謝主席 我們請沈記長還有主記長我們請陳主記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5611.753 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5635.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
委員好兩位早安我想我先來跟沈記長討教一下針對的就是近日就是我們有一群我們白河的鄉親北上抗議他抗議什麼呢他抗議就是說我們白河水庫的一個排沙工程這個時間太長了還有蘇峻的一個計畫都沒有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5636.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5644.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
查核也沒有一個監督那事實上我們看到了就是說白河水庫因為他其實在前瞻計畫裡頭我們大概從2017年到2024年這7年裡頭我們編了103 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5653.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5670.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
3.9億 這個很明確我們看到了那在這裡要問一下那個沈記長就是說是不是你有關心到這一個議題我覺得 我想聽聽有沒有透明的一個機制可以讓農民跟社會大眾去掌握這一個進度跟成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5672.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5686.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
來 謝謝委員的主教那個柏油水庫是我們水庫裡面的遺跡非常嚴重差不多達到60%所以政府花了一點錢把它失禁但是它的失禁這個排沙工程在做的時候其實我們也有 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5687.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5714.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
也要求他 他因為一直變更設計但是他整個他因為把這個排沙工程直接排到集水溪去所以變成那些沙去影響了集水溪所以就造成有一點會淹水所以這個我們都有注意這樣的一個情況所以我們認為這樣的一個做法可能集水溪要 如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5715.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5729.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
他一定要繼續排到這個集水區可能還是要好好的水利署要把集水區這個問題要把它解決但是水利署說他有花了差不多將近要花1億5到1億8還是怎麼樣他準備提出50幾億的輸進工程包括買地 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5737.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5757.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
龍水署他是全責在兩個單位喔對 白河水庫是我跟你講白河水庫是那個龍水署龍水署也編了51億他要用地取得喔所以這個沈機長我希望你要加強監督喔你要保障農民 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5757.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5780.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
這個我們會影響做一個事情造成另一個問題我們會處理 謝謝沈記長接著我請教主記長針對的在這一次華家沙風災跟花蓮馬太安燕射湖的一個災後重建特別條例裡頭我們有特別提到了就是說用預算法的第22條的第32項還有預算法 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5785.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5800.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
88條的第一項裡頭有特別講到了就是說政府在災害發生的時候能迅速合法有效的應用資源不需要再額外設立一部這個特別法就是說他不需要再有一個專案 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5802.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5817.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
主席長你覺得花蓮市政府的現在提到的他們需要有一個特別的一個專案需要增加就是預算來救災那如果相對的話台南 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5818.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5833.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
台南當初是更慘的跟嘉義是更慘的嘉義縣台南都是更慘的那這樣子的話都可以再用一個專法那我台南是不是也可以追加請主席長回答沈縣長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5835.317 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5860.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
我也再跟委員報告一下因為這個部分我們一般針對災害就是希望能夠儘速然後儘快然後能夠達到一個救災的目的那目前原則上可以動之災害準備金或者動之第二預備金或者做一個調整已經動用了一億了對不對當初台南還沒有動用到是我們在那個原來這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5862.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5878.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
丹尼斯颱風的時候裡面他有預備金有30億那預計他以行政院目前的一個他是希望說追加250億的一個預算然後直接因為當初在 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5879.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5886.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
丹尼斯颱風裡面就提到有辦理馬太安的厭塞湖災害的一個相關復原重建所以他只要修正部分的一個條文就能達到這個目的所以這個部分或增加250億的一個我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5895.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5924.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
其實不是在逼可憐的啦那確實就是說台南的一個災後的一個重建其實還是很漫長只是我們現在看到了就是說花蓮縣政府提出來的這一些需求的時候其實我們是很羨慕的你這個一站式的一個服務那每一個災民你現在每一戶就可以拿到35萬元那這個是讓我們真的是非常的羨慕所以就是說我在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5925.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5947.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
要特別特別跟主計主計長就是說你一定要先協調相關的單單位你去盤點你的經費來源是那我們確保就是說在後的一個計畫能夠及時的一個推動如果如果花蓮他要再有一個專法的話那我想台南我們也要推出一個專法 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5948.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5958.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
這樣子才有辦法就是說及時的照顧到我們台南的災民好 謝謝主計長那我想我們再依序進入到中央統籌分配款的這一個部分那我在這裡要跟那個主計長做一個探討 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5966.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5982.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
財政收支劃分法修法了以後剛才我們有其他的委員有特別提到有九個縣市包括本席本席的縣市台南市裡頭它稅入的分配的一個數字看起來比稅前的修法還少 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5983.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5998.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
好像感覺上有一個中央奪取地方的一個財源的疑慮這樣的一個變化難免會讓地方政府跟民眾產生一個疑慮是不是中央縮水了地方的一個財源但是我們當了解其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6000.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6018.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
並不是所以就是說我們在這裡也特別特別就是說柴岩上的一個管理那跟主計總長再提一個這樣的一個計畫就是說如果你沒有辦法分配給地方政府第二次的一個修法的一個提案下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6020.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6042.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
那請主計總長說明就是說在這一次的財化法修法了以後這346億沒有辦法分配給地方政府的那行政院昨天院長有講了怎麼樣去解決這一些那如果這些錢要怎麼樣處理我想聽一聽那個主計長你的一個看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6043.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6068.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為我們這個部分就是有跟財政部也有開過幾次的會財政部有表示就是說這346億目前是無法分配給地方政府那這個部分如果要分配給地方政府就必須要透過修法的一個動作那如果說要修法的部分我們在行政院這邊是有研擬整個一個財務法的整個修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6068.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6094.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
因為為什麼因為當初的財化好修正就是在縣市之間非常的不均衡非常的不均衡就是說他分配的狀況就是落差非常的大主席長你應該要還原到為什麼這個修法會修成這個樣子那在去年的時候當初就是說整個修法的過程裡頭我們的那個預算的一個過程當中為什麼其實原則上來講 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6095.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6112.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
就是公事有漏點啦這個是怎麼造成的誰提法誰提這個法案誰就要負責啊怎麼為什麼是行政院在修繕呢你這個分母22個縣市分子19個縣市你這個本來本來就會造成這個盲點啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6113.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6131.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
是 所以這個部分所以院長也表示說這個修緩的部分行政院的部分沒有辦法來提案但是問題就是說整個一個財化法的整體的一個修正讓它更均衡這個部分財政部正在研擬當中不是 你這個文字怎麼對起來嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6131.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6150.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
修法為什麼會技術這麼差這個總是要有人負責那負責的人其實基本上你只要就是承認就是說當初在這個修法上面在這個預算審查上面就是說太草率了不然你現在怎麼修你怎麼修都是大家都不滿意 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6152.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6176.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
對 所以這個部分我們財政部相關它已經有研擬新的一個財劃法的一個版本那這個版本我們也會近日那一面財政部會找相關的縣市來做一個討論之後然後來做一個定案那你有把握說你把地方的財政部找來的時候財政局找來的時候財政處找來的時候大家都可以理性講這些事嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6177.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6195.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
但是至少比較均衡好 至少比較均衡好 那你現在前者沒有辦法就是統一前者沒有辦法就是說做事的人沒有錢那這地方有錢可是事情還是留在中央這個怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6196.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6222.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
所以现在目前市权它就是留在中央那钱已经分到地方但是这个部分除了这之外原来中央一直有补助原来是地方硬办的事项就是透过一般性补助和计划性补助来做补助 着以补助的部分所以这个部分我们今年才会做一个调整让它就是有一部分回归地方去自行负担 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6223.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6248.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
是這樣 空姐主席長在這一次的財化法你這樣子的一個分配也造成南北的一個失衡那南部其實就是說有很多重要的建設其實都一直在進行就反而中央沒有機會來建設這一些該建設的所以我想這個是一個很大的困難那我們也希望就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6249.529 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6267.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
財政部要加油因為事實上這個我們面臨到一個大家都面臨到一個非常大的一個困境那我們也希望在野黨要理性不然你看嘛這個大家這樣子一直對立下去的時候其實這個影響到的就是一個國家那個一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6268.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6279.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
严谨的一个进步我是不知道灭绝师太是什么可是我总是觉得你就是像那个王母娘娘一直在善财那我也觉得这个王母娘娘是慈悲的 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6281.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6303.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
你很適合謝謝我也跟委員報告我們是因為新的財化法把一個行政院他一個去做均衡縣市一個經濟的一個部分的能力打破了所以現在目前我們只能還是做一些的一個彌補所以我們預計在均衡一般性補助裡面一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6303.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6322.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
均衡補助辦法的還有考核獎勵金裡面來做一個彌補讓各縣市能夠恢復到114年度一般性補助加計劃型加統籌分配稅的一個水準以上好 主席長加油加油好 謝謝賴委員接下來我們請中央嘉賓委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6340.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6365.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
好 主席在場的委員先進列席的政府經貿市長官員會長工作夥伴媒體記者女士先生我們請行政院主計總處陳主計長還有負責統計的看事三位處長綜合統計國事普查主計資訊三位處長來協助一下我們主計長委員好等一下三位好 主計長好 三位處長好 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6371.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6379.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
主席長 人家說家有一老 爐有一寶請問故宮有國寶 人民家裡有什麼寶人民家裡的老人是什麼是領國民年金的保險我們一般說國寶 國寶不是說那個故宮的國寶你如果說你家裡有一個老大人 他是領國寶的我要請教你 你覺得他是不是寶你對國民年金了解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6402.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6413.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
來 我跟你講一下一般人他如果沒有受雇沒有勞 軍公教勞 農保都沒有尤其是家庭主婦他在六十五歲之前每個月要繳一千兩百四十五的保費 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6415.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6436.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這是國民年金的保費然後健保要繳826一個月要負擔的健保加國保要負2000 超過2000但是超過60歲以上之後他只要繼續繳800多塊的保費然後平均每個月可以領幾副領差不多4000請問這樣的老人是不是國保是是國保 我們來看一下我們現在回到今天正題才化法 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6442.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6453.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
市權劃分財源均衡我們主要是說我們要努力的提升但是很奇怪現在我們明年度的總預算現在在野黨還給你鴿子他們說什麼問題為什麼鴿子 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6457.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6475.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
他們說去年通過兩個法要提高軍人待遇要提高警校退休給付沒有編載明年的預算然後就開始說怎樣要修財化法財化法是財政部管的對不對結果是你遭殃總預算他放在哪裡問題在我們往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6476.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6494.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
我們整個財化法的精神我們年度總預算的編列是不是中央協助地方分攤人民的負擔 是不是這樣子是人民的負擔 人民要繳健保保費人民要繳國保保費然後這個時候地方政府來幫人民分攤 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6495.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6519.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
然後呢地方政府力有未待的我們中央政府來協助嘛這個是不是就是說你一般性補助款的精神你地方政府要幫人民負擔的就是你的支出在一般性補助款當中我中央考慮到你的能力有差異所以呢我就能力強的我給你協助少一點能力低的我給你協助多一點是不是這樣這是才華的精神嘛那你們也是根據這個方式來籌編預算嘛往下看好現在我們看一下剛剛的國保 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6522.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6544.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
65歲以上的話你來看現在的勞動人口政府跟僱主幫他分攤七成的保費他自己分攤三成的保費如果說是沒有僱主的地方政府補助健保四成的保費中央政府補助四成的保費他自己要負擔六成的保費政府的這個是誰出 中央政府出嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6545.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6572.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
是不是這樣健保保衛是不是政府自成是中央政府嘛中央政府對不對但是地方政府現在有的很好他說你後來的這六成你吃六萬我給你倒分攤有沒有有沒有兩個縣市政府說你的六成我地方政府也幫你出有沒有有嘛對不對那能夠幫人民分攤這六成的地方政府財政好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6574.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6599.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
怎麼不好 他不好他怎麼幫他分攤四成是中央分攤 六成是人民分攤但是六十五歲之後有的地方政府說六十五歲 阿娜 你的六成不用分攤我幫你出能夠這樣講的地方財政好不好可以這樣講的地方的財政好不好一定夠好嘛 你就不跟我說他好他才敢幫他分攤嘛那像屏東不好的敢這樣講嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6602.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6618.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
所以我要問你的是說如果地方政府財政好到可以幫老人家分攤他的健保自負額你覺得這個地方政府還需要中央協助嗎應該不需要嘛逗了這半天你才聽得懂 往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6619.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6646.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
來 我們政府要協助什麼最弱勢的嘛所以地方政府他如果財力允許他人民的致富額的六成當中他會從什麼 深藏啦 中低啦 對不對這些人都很可憐嘛所以地方政府如果財政窘迫他沒辦法出嘛我們中央要一般性補助協助他嘛如果他的財源充裕我們中央政府怎樣他就直接幫助弱勢了嘛是不是這樣 往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6647.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6670.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
所以我們來舉例 大家可不可以聽說長庚集團 人家說台塑有世保在哪世保嗎 台亞我就不用念了誰最大 長庚的總管理處最大因為當年王永慶把台塑世保的股票10%以上都放在哪裡 長庚的總管理處長庚的總管理處是台塑世保的大老闆 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6672.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6700.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
那長庚的各分院你還想如果是長庚各分院如果他財政分院比較差的總管理署給他支持對不對那如果說現在呢把這個股票直接交給分院分院就不需要總院了嘛是不是這樣子所以我發現啊 財化法啊中央統籌呢 本來在我們中央嘛現在呢 地方政府說你股票都給我啦 你不用給我鼓勵啦你股票給我 我就不用你幫忙是不是這樣有嗎 有這樣講嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6702.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6730.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
現在四千一百六十五億給了地方政府了統籌分給他了他有說你不用幫我補助啊你高票都給我我不用你幫我補助我直接拿高票 高金就夠了這樣可以嗎原則上是這樣啦但是事實上不是沒有嘛現在要求要一般性補助要維持嘛對嘛對不對我這樣講沒有錯吧本來長庚醫院總管理處有台塑世保的股票每年有很多的股息對不對你各個地方的 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6731.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6757.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
長征分院財政差的我就支持你嘛現在你的股票都給我了股息我就自己領了還需要你中央嗎應該是不需要啦原則上應該不用好 結果我們現在看現在我們送進來的最新版的財化法這個陳雪珍說345億公司設算錯誤分配不出去對不對怎麼辦大部分這345億是不是應該給離島的 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6759.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6785.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
居多嘛是好 那我們來看一下往下看現在有個金明年主張這345億應該給誰給每人每月領不到4000塊的國保年金的這些被保險人老人基本保證年金是4049這法律裡面算出來的這人要照顧嗎需要所以金明年他說來 往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6786.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6813.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
他說全台灣有國保年金212.5萬的人每個月領不到這麼多錢好那如果我們他把這樣排富跟什麼限制呢他就把他可以補到8000你覺得可行嗎要不要照顧是要照顧你現在能夠再挪出345億來照顧這些人嗎沒有辦法挪不出來那怎麼辦這些人要不要照顧往下看現在這345億我考你啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6817.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6830.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
有一個方法是說把公司設算改正了就給離島的39萬人你支持嗎這一個第二個說現在有反年金改革退休的公教人員包括警校提高待遇這大概52萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6832.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6850.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
另外還有國保年金幾戶領不到8000塊的有200萬人你猜猜看你問你家的老人問你家的國保你覺得如果你有340億多出來他會要求政府優先照顧誰照顧39萬的離島人口照顧52萬的軍空要退休人員還是照顧每個月領不到8000的國保年金的國保原則上是讓你自由發揮一下應該是要優先照顧那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6863.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6889.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
沒有領滿八千的啦領不到八千的嘛那如果說我們財化法說這三百四十五億修法說用來照顧這個國民年金的兩百萬人你支不支持可不可以支持我們財化法說現在三百四十五億分不出去了啊金平田說乾脆修法啦分給這些人讓他們每個月可以領到八千先不講法講你的個人的情感 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6891.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6915.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
妳覺得 妳會認同嗎如果能夠給老年的幾戶增加我覺得這也是非常不可啦只是說以目前來修法的一個方向大概是不可行啦法是誰定的立法院定的立法院定的如果增加支出行政院要申請釋憲如果立法院定的法說要照顧老人家 妳會反對嗎不會嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6918.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6942.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
所以怎麼去定這個法怎麼讓國家有限的財源去照顧最需要照顧的人是不是你們主計總部要支持的那你怎麼知道誰最需要照顧你後面站一排人來看下一張你去算一下這些領定期退伍給予的這些人有多少人年齡分布怎麼樣他每個月收多少錢收五萬六萬七萬你把它算出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6943.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6972.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
離島的人口有多少人他們的財富分佈所得分佈你算出來現在在領國民年金給付的有多少人他們的財富分佈你給他算出來用這個數字告訴人民誰最需要照顧最辛苦的人最需要照顧還是那些月齡五六萬週休七日日遊七國週遊列國的人需要照顧主席知道我的意思了沒有是 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6973.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6983.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
這個資料什麼時候可以給我這個部分必須要由地方來提供因為我們統計調查都是屬於抽樣那抽樣的東西你算不出來嗎你不能跟考試院要嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6985.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
7010.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
離島人口你算不出來嗎沒有關係你要負責讓全國人民知道離島的人口軍公教退休人口領國保的聯邦人口他們的財富情況如何所得狀況如何誰最需要領多一點可不可以你要怎麼做你的事情本席要求你一個月內提供可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
7011.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
7039.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
不是盡量 絕對要提供要讓人民知道政府有欠的稅金要花在誰身上要花在國寶身上家有一老 爐有一寶這個寶是周遊七國還是月領不到四千想清楚 然後跟人民說明白好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝鍾委員鍾委員要的報告請主席長一個月之內答覆接下來我們請李燕秀委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
7052.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
7078.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
謝謝昭緯 我可不可以請主席長我們請陳主席長委員好主席長辛苦了是 謝謝你主席長 今天有幾位委員其實也都非常關心幾個重要的數字因為數字的差異性其實都會影響到我必須再次強調所有主席處其實一過來每一個精準 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
7079.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
7100.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
精準的數字都會變成我們政府施政也好或者是民間企業重要投資的指標我相信您大概聽懂我的意思跟話那我們先來看看主席處在10月8號公布9月份的物價指數今年9月份估計是1.25 CPI是1.25這也是創下過去從110年4月以來4年半的最低的漲幅 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
7107.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
7133.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
也是已經連續5個月我們現在CPI已經低於2%的警戒值所以這個數字當然維持得很好但是組計處也表示說這會不會是暫時性的因素包括像譬如說我們中秋節今年是在10月去年是在9月所以跟同期期相比其實看起來是比較低的包括譬如說機票國內外旅遊隨著暑假旺季然後就回跌 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
7133.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
7147.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
所以我想我們也會評估到會不會是暫時性的因素所以通膨被壓低會不會只是曇花一現所以包括我們今年下休包括今年全年的CPI是1.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
7149.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
7170.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
那央行目前預估通膨大概今年會1.75所以我想請問一下就是說主席講央行估計是1.75那我們今年5月份預估是1.88那我們還會不會再向下調整我們預估前年是1.76明年大概也是1.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7174.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7201.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
今年我指的是今年因為央行估計的是1.75我們在5月份預估是1.88那你預估全年度會不會再下修到目前為止1至9月是1.77然後我們全年預估是1.76然後明年是預估1.64這樣子所以明年通膨會更低對因為主要是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7203.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7220.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
整個一個國際的一個油價還有一個原物料它的下降影響而且我們的品項是368項所以它範圍很大但是呢我們其實也有針對民生的一個部分分別發布說肉類啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7222.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7237.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
這個就是我要講我已經聽到你今年全年你也往下調整明年你也預估出來會更低CPI會更低1.6多而已這是好事但是民生的物價就是接下來我要跟主席講探討的 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7238.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7263.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
看起來我們許多數字其實非常好但是我們回過頭來看包括今年的豬肉 雞肉包括我們豬肉的漲幅就達到8.7雞蛋的漲幅5.9素食麵 泡麵的漲幅是2.0麵包的漲幅是4.7包括我們常在吃藥的所有看醫生吃藥都會配一顆胃藥胃藥漲幅達到8.7也就是說民生用品的通膨 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7264.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7281.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
其實是高的達到整年度上升了2.47所以主席講就是說政府的很多數字很好但是我們更擔心人民在消費力的感受上覺得沒有啊 物價都在上漲所以我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7283.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7301.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
事實的很多數據不斷的公佈怎麼去做政策方面的調整包括經濟部農業部在物價剛剛我講的重要的民生的一些指標豬肉街我們怎麼樣去做更好的調控政府用他可以用的工具做更好的調控恐怕是我們要隨時去做更多數字的 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7302.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7322.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
微調或者是關注這些數字這是我要提醒主席長的地方主要重要民生物資的部分我們也都有公布就是所謂主要民生重要的一個17項一個民生那個需求的部分還有我知道我知道因為我今天要問的議題很多所以我只是要提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7323.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7340.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這些數字出來之後應該轉給經濟部也好農業部也好去做一些因為民生物價很高包括豬的費用高外食族的費用高這些基本的豬肉雞肉蛋這些很高我們怎麼樣在相關部會去做一些政策上的調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7341.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7364.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
這個是要隨時去你的數字出來就是要轉給各部會市政方向調整應該趕快去做處理第二個我要請問一下主計長包括我們今年的包括實質性的經常性薪資這幾年過去都是副成長好不容易從2024年開始轉正現在的經常性的薪資今年度是47709 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7366.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7369.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
好不容易我們轉正成長成長了1.12%所以是持續在成長所以包括我們今年度也好整個國際局勢的轉換轉變變化也非常的快所以我想請問主計長我們今年全年度的實質經常性的薪資是不是還可以維持正成長你今年我到目前為止我看到是成長1.12%我們今年實質性的薪資是4萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7394.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7412.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
扣除物價是1.12%整年度也是會成長我們預計也是這樣子大概是多少 會不會超過2%應該不會 應該差不多1.1%那會比1.12%還高嗎高一點點而已高一點大概是多少應該也是接近這個水準 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7414.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7435.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
差不多 因為我們現在是做預測我知道 我知道預測因為國際局勢的變化很快速但是你的每一個指標都關係到很多民間的投資 人民的感受所以你講差不多 我不知道差異是多因為有時候差0.2 0.3 0.5應該是很小 很微小差不多1.1多 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7441.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7468.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
好 就差不多那就0.01%的差距好 那主席長我第三個問題要請教你總統在這次國慶的報告上他有提到就是說雖然面臨國際的局勢但是我們經濟成長仍舊是在四小龍之首我們排在第一位四小龍之第一名也超越了中國大陸我們今年利用亞洲開發銀行的報告我們經濟成長率是上收到5.1這是好事 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7470.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7482.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
那足技厝在8月的時候才上修我們經濟成長率是4.45所以我們現在數字會不會去做調整你認為亞洲銀行的數據會不會過於樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7486.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7504.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
亞銀的是5.1我們評估是4.45然後央行是4.5目前是這樣但是應該是會有往上升的趨勢但是是不是能夠達到5.1我們是有一點比較那你預估會是多少我們預估是4.45但是我是覺得它會超過4.5超過4.5才多0.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7509.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7517.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
那他的估計就太過樂觀了可是總統覺得他的數字假如報告是他的數字他不是有你的數字區計你5組織長5.1跟4.45或4.5其實是差距很大0.5是差距很大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7531.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7550.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
對 所以因為以目前的趨勢他並沒有萎縮很多所以這個以一個出口的一個來講樂觀是好事但是雅英的數字是很樂觀你會不會覺得他過於樂觀所以我們是比較保守是我們才4.5所以總統是太樂觀 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7552.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7581.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
因为这是亚洲银行提供的数据它只是依据这个数据来说明那你比较保守你要不要再稍微乐观一点会再成长主席长因为我要提的您的数字是国家的望远镜像我们企业界就很多常常我听到企业各产业就在讲说现在好像报现金比较好不敢太调整因为你上半年度说我们上半年我记得有一个数字说下半年能保一就不错全年保三下半年保一 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7581.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7605.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
所以很多產業界聽到這個數字就不敢投資報現金這個都是自然的心態我也知道局勢國際局勢變化非常快但是我就要提醒您是國家的很多重要政策的望眼鏡您看好看壞每個數字都會影響到產業界所以我們一直做在觀察然後一直在評估好我最後一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7606.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7627.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
所以我覺得這個政策我覺得隨時數字要隨時公佈隨時我覺得參考國際的數字央行的數字我們不能過於保守也不能太樂觀所以怎麼樣是一個好的拿捏一個獨立機構我們應該有的能夠建立更多的公信力我要提醒主席講 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7628.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7643.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
要去做一些調整如果連總統都要用亞營的數字不是用你的數字那我就會覺得很奇怪這是我要提醒您的地方我最後一個主席講我們在今年7月通過我們通過一筆特別預算就是強化社會經濟總共是5500億 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7645.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7663.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
那當時您提到的我們會有舉賽的部分達到一千零六億那但是我們當時是因為年中的時候我們對明年的這個穗積聖雲的狀況還不確定但是看起來到今年八月底我們今年明年可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7664.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7683.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
不一定會比今年好但是也不會太差所以我要請問你明年會不會不需要借那麼多就明年六月份我們會還債會不會不需要借到一千零六億會不會只需要借到一半或甚至更少您的預估數字是怎麼樣因為明年稅金剩餘可能跟今年不會差異太大我希望得到您的答案 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7683.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7709.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
不是 因为譬如说我们今年114年度剩余但是那个是要优先还债还债里面是1415扩掉之后它剩余只剩下164亿以114年度来讲但是我现在的部分我现在是以113年度这都还没有审定我要运用它我必须要等到审计部审定之后这个剩余我才能够运用所以要等 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7709.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7728.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
我知道所以你的預估數字很重要你當時預估的數字說我們可能要舉債我沒有要跟你吵架我需要知道那個數字當時你說我們要舉債因為明年的數字怎麼樣還不知道現在已經十月了我們大概可以知道今年年底大概是一個什麼樣的狀況稅率的狀況大概還是稅收超徵 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7732.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7750.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
所以說沒有辦法超徵我聽財政部長他表示說今年要達到預算數是有點困難所以這個部分但是我們今年各項指標的數字是不錯局長為什麼會這樣提因為你們10月可能還會送進來一個軍購的特別預算要達到GDP的5% |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7753.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7782.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
一兆元所以那个每个我们的取债的部分是我特别长期关注的部分那明年到底可以还多少这些数字都会牵动到未来我们立法院审定其他特别预算到底取债要多少我们应该同意多少整个财政纪律是相对的重要所以我用我想我会希望知道这个数字最主要的原因在这里如果可以的话我希望会后有机会跟主席同仁再进一步去做更进一步的讨论好不好谢谢主席长谢谢委员谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7783.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7788.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
謝謝李委員 謝謝主席長接下來有請李昭偉 昆城委員質詢謝謝主席我們請陳主席長有請陳主席長 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7804.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7823.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
委員好主席長好請教一下主席長因為去年底在野黨倉促修法這個財化法造成了許多的問題現在除了說有關公視的錯誤在野黨他們自己會提修法之外這兩天我也聽到我們卓院長講未來行政院會提出自己版本的財化法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7824.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7844.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
是原則上財政部目前已經都在研擬當中那國發會也針對一般補助和計劃型補助的相關的一個事權一直在檢討所以這個部分我們也都參與在討論那這個部分近期財政部希望說跟縣市再討論再召開縣市來做一個討論然後之後再來做一個決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7847.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7863.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
不過主席長我跟你講這會有時間上的壓力就是說你可能沒辦法就是說還有很充裕的時間再找各個縣市再來討論這個才化法因為現在在野黨他們也會再提自己的才化法的版本出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7864.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7893.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
如果按照他們現在要提的財劃法的版本就是他們在給各縣市的一般性的補助款不得低於前一年的金額然後計劃型的補助款的補助比率不得低於過去十年同財力集賜的縣市還有同類型計劃的平均值今天下午可能超越協商就會討論所以我跟你講我們要提出我們自己的願版的財劃法 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7894.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7920.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
直接上面有壓力那如果按照這一檔他們所提出來的才華法的話會產生什麼樣的問題因為這執行上是有困難的因為像計畫型的補助是根據各縣市的一個需求然後它是有變動因為執行譬如說有的執行兩年一年之後它這計畫就不執行就要換新的計畫所以沒有辦法說保持一定的額度各縣市保持一定的額度而是必須要看 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7920.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7944.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
各縣市實際的需求然後還包括各縣市的財力的分級狀況來做分配以財化法之後它整個財力分級是已經改變了是沒有辦法維持去年或是以前10年舊的財化法分配的額度所以這個部分都必須要做重新的修正尤其你計劃的部分維持不變的額度 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7947.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7954.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
各縣是為此不便而渡這是實際上是有困難的對 所以實際上我跟你講就是說會遇到在野黨他們如果再提出版本的話那就會產生一些新的問題所以我才說我們不論是財政部或是主計處我們對於這個願版的財化法其實沒有很多的時間可以再慢慢的琢磨可能就必須要在這個短的時間裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7973.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
8000.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
要我們自己一個願版要提出來我們才有辦法跟外界來討論不然就會變成只有在野黨的版本那在野黨版本就像剛剛主席長所講的還是會有問題不論是他們這個一般性的補助款或是計畫性補助款的那個比例還是會產生問題所以我是先跟主席長講這個現在是10月底了這個我們自己願版的版本可能在11月份左右我覺得大家要準備了 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
8001.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
8022.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
有這個部分財政部都已經在充分的一個研究所以這個本身的一個他的一個提出的一個實證這個部分我們會回去轉告就是院裡頭請他這個部分是不是能夠加快我覺得不會留太多時間給我們那再請教一下主計長你剛有提到就是說因為我們希望說財權跟事權在這個《財務法》的劃分之下能夠做這一個適當的移轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
8028.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
8044.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
但是有一些就像你講的必須要修法我請教你就是說我們有關這一個基本財政收支短差部分我們說要回歸給地方指引譬如說像農保 老農津貼國民年金等等這些要不要修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8045.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8060.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
要修法如果說我們希望說財權跟事權能夠劃分有些是屬於地方的希望回歸到地方但是你們有去了解或去統整的到底修法的哪一些法律條文必須要做修改 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8061.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8088.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
現在原則上原來省政府的部分是11%原來縣政府的部分是4%所以整個財源移出15%那省政府的市權包括原來省立的高中職省立高中職現在是國立高中職是中央在負擔縱使直轄市它有一些是變成市立但是還是中央在補助那還有一個是勞健保的一個補助 榮保 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8089.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8118.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
劳健保 劳融津贴那这些都必须要相关修相关的作用法所以你们有修法的信单出来了吗这个部分修法的部分还必须要各部会来提出但是目前光是以一般性补助属于县市应办的事项要回归就碰到很大的阻碍对 所以这个要修法的部分我也请这个我们财政部我们主计处要赶快要整理出来 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8118.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8135.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
因为我们也要跟外界讲说我们希望说事权财权能够分清楚但是有一些是属于地方那属于地方的又必须要经过修法才能够移转给他们不需要 属于地方一般的事项我们透过一般性补助 透过计划我刚才讲的那些法 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8136.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8148.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
對 剛剛那些法必須透過修法所以這個部分是國發會事權的部分是國發會在負責國發會現在都已經在在檢討說哪些一個事權必須要修法的那這個清單大概哪時候會確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8152.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8176.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
這個部分國化會已經在進行中同樣再強調我們時間不多了我覺得這個東西如果我們要跟大家講就是說有一些必須要移轉到這個地方但是必須要修法的我覺得那個清單你要趕快出來那剛有些就是說不需要修法就是說按照我們這個地方制度法第18條第19條規定有些教育文化社會福利水利道路交通事項 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8177.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8195.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
是屬於縣市政府的知識事項按照統法70條的規定應該以其自有的財源優先編列預算的支應那這部分的話就不用修法了是 這部分是不需要修法直接回歸由縣市的一個所獲得的統籌分配稅來支應即可 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8195.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8212.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
但是要講清楚因為之前就發生了說那為什麼這個冷氣以前就是由中央來出的那現在由地方來出或是說這個營養午餐以前中央出的為什麼現在由地方來出要講清楚如果講不清楚的話變成中央又挨打就是說你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8213.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8231.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
至少我知道的水電費 學校的午餐費國產可溯源的食材 冷氣費 維護費這些等等這些有一些按照地方支持事項的它就必須要回歸到地方來做處理但是我沒有講清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8232.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8246.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
或是說外界不知道或是各個縣市政府他們可能也都知道了也應該都知道了但是他就不管你反正我就先跟你吵就是說這本來應該中央出的那為什麼後來變成地方要出了然後變成地方政府的首長 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8247.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8268.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
又自己又做紅包做這個善台同職就說沒關係中央不出我地方來出就變成這樣子你知道嗎我們應該說應該是由地方來出的那結果地方就說你看中央都不出然後後來就說沒關係我自己地方可以來出因為現在地方錢比較多了本來就可以來出所以我覺得這部分主席總書要說清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8269.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8270.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
所以主席長我跟你講 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8288.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8309.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
縣市政府他們知道他們的主席財政都知道但是這是一個政治的議題這不是說他們知道我跟你講有些縣市首長他就是知道他一樣跟你講說為什麼以前是中央出的現在變地方出了所以我們要先講要先跟大家講清楚就是說為什麼現在以前由中央出中央出也不是這個義務要出的 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8310.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8329.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
中央是认为说地方钱不够中央来出可是按照这个地方制度法相关的规定本来就应该有地方来出那现在如果地方有这个钱的地方来出是合理对不对我觉得这个已经挨了好几次闷棍了这个中央政府要学乖那我最后请教一下这个我们物价 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8330.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8348.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
雖然我看你們的物價統計CPI一到九月較去年同期漲了1.77%但是我們的核心的CPI漲得比較多我們至少每個月購買一次者上漲2.74%就包含蘇國外食醫療費用的漲幅這個民眾會覺得說 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8356.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8374.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我們現在的物價真的是偏高就我們自己在外面不論是外食或是說是買東西或吃東西等等之類的感覺上物價沒有像我們數字報告上面的好像說一點多而已好像也沒有到2%的警戒值 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8376.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8393.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
那這個部分我要請這個主計總署可能你們要稍微就是考量一下當然我知道說你們有針對一些重要的民生物價你們有做一些我們有公佈有公佈啦譬如說可是我看外食的費用啦什麼豬肉的費用啦水果水果的費用啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8394.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8420.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
这10个月来每个月都增加这对于老百姓来讲是一个很大的负担但是它已经逐渐在回稳当中像去年的话一般石油还有一些原物料它是高涨但是今年都回稳逐渐降低很多像水果蔬菜是受台风或灾害的影响最大它也会逐渐回稳 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8421.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8438.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
主席長 數字看起來好像回穩但是對於民眾的心理的感受來講物價是偏高的目前是 外食會是偏高的對啊 這個我們自己要注意一下就是不要數字跟民眾的心理感受偏差太遠是 OK好 謝謝 謝謝主席長好 謝謝趙偉 謝謝主席長接下來有請顏委員寬恒質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8458.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8478.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
主席各位列席觀眾大家好主席有請主席長我們請陳主席長委員好主席長早是主計總署公佈8月份失業率再度走升到3.45%是比7月份高也是近一年的新高失業人數41.5萬比7月增加6000人 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8482.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8501.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
工時不足就業人數有12.1萬月增4000人創今年以來新高除了畢業生投入職場推升失業率還有無薪假人數也變多了這種情況表示說關稅的影響已經開始發酵衝擊我國出口產業以及進口的物價同時 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8506.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8518.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
國內也面臨電價油價原物料及食品價格上漲那整體的CPI維持高檔那面對這種情況我認為說主席總署作為政府經濟數據分析與預測的重要機關有責任就關稅變動對我國通膨 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8526.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8544.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
產業鏈與民生經濟的影響進行完整評估與預警請教主席長目前是否已針對美中貿易戰持續擴大美國對電動車半導體鋼鋁製品等項目加徵關稅進行跨部會的衝擊模擬有沒有相關的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8545.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8573.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
這個部分是因為它是涉及到關稅的部分它一向都是由副院長在主持這個部分那這個部分我們在討論的時候說有針對傳統產業因為傳統產業影響是比較大而且它目前很早就顯現出來所以說主委長有沒有這個進行跨部會的一個衝擊模擬那相關的報告可不可以給我辦公室提供是我們這個部分我們就有這個報告嗎有嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8575 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8586.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
目前是沒有這個報告我們是不是請相關的單位來提供那請提供給我再來就是關稅變動影響外銷那也藉由 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8588.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8614.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
透過這樣子的一個進口成本進口的成本來推升國內的這些物價所以我要提醒主計長剛剛提到的這些相關的製造業包含食品 農產品 家電 汽車零組件都直接關乎民生如果不及早掌握與預警年底的CPI恐怕會再突破兩趴那最後受害的都還是民眾不能一拖再拖說關稅還沒有談完這樣子的說法這說法是 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8619.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8641.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
不能夠被接受希望在未來的一個報告當中納入完整的一個關稅衝擊分析就我剛剛跟你說的跨部會的一個衝擊模擬提供給其他部會完整的一個關稅衝擊分析提供給其他部會相關的建議重點就是要減輕對企業還有民眾的一個衝擊可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8642.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8660.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
這個部分我們其實我們雖然韌性特別預算還沒有通過但是有一些相關經費事實上就已經在進行了所以這個部分對於傳統產業的一些相關的一個補助或協助的措施都已經展開了並不是說現在在原地不動不是這樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8660.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8684.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
所以這個部分我跟委員報告這個部分像經濟部它對中小企業相關的一個貸款的一個補助各方面產業的一個協助這方面他們都已經啟動了好 上週處理任性特別預算中這個補發現金一萬塊能夠提供多少的這個GDP的增幅你跟國發會就有不同的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8686.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8700.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
國發會預估是會成長0.415%那主計總數評估是會增加0.65那都是正向的那就代表說有刺激到整體的經濟那可不可以請你說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8701.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8718 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
我要再說明一下就是國化會是針對花1萬塊的部分它是去估的部分那我們是針對5500億除了這個1萬塊之外還有投注下去的它會產生0.65的一個GDP的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8718.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8738.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
所以兩個合計起來是1.1個百分比的一個影響所以等於是說我還有一個任性的一個國防任性的一個部分還有一個就是發放現金的部分國防會是針對發放現金的部分來評估那我們是針對發放現金之外來做評估所以兩個的評估點是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8739.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8745.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
好的 財政部預估說最快發放的時間是在11月中旬請教一下這個時間會不會影響你對GDP的一個預估 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8750.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8769.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
因為我們預估點大部分就是說他會分114或115因為他有分三個年度在執行所以本身如果是屬於國安任性的部分他是比較偏後面115或116的一個影響如果是法案信心他會比較偏在114和115的一個影響好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8773.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8779.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
主席 可不可以請沈記長跟主記長一起 謝謝我們請沈記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8787.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8809.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
在這邊先恭喜沈記長留任這也代表說大家對你的信任同時沈記長也時常針對預算濫用的部分直言不諱所以希望未來的時間你也能夠繼續好好的監督整個政府的施政請教兩位一般性補助款違法定義務支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8809.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8813.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
那中央可以隨便刪減嗎 可以嗎兩位 署計長跟審計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8815.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8840.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
我要跟委員報告因為依照地方制度還有一個財政紀律法一個相關的一個財劃法相關的規定是說它對於地方應辦的事項著於補助著於補助不是說我一定要補助是著於補助所以我們一般性補助款和計畫性補助款它的重點是在均衡各縣市的一個經濟 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8842.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8858.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
平衡平衡所以讓每一個國民都能夠得到均衡的照顧那所以呢分的比較多的部分他一定是要分的要分配在財力集資的一個分配下他在一般性的補助就應該要著以減少這樣子來那請沈記長 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8861.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8889.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
大概這個114年的這個636億大院都一直很關注行政院這邊提出追加 通過我想能夠趕快分配到各縣市去再按照計畫分配縣市這個問題就可以處理完成我們都知道法條都寫得很清楚一般性補助款立法院沒有資格刪中央機關 中央政府也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8891.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8898.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
所以應該要按照預算的編制或者是預算的審議來進行依照法律的規定來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8901.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8921.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
一般性補助款不要把民眾這個對於政府地方政府一些弱勢需要長期照顧的這些特定的群眾跟族群但是不要苛扣這些補助款這些都是攸關地方民生議題的一個經費不要把民眾的生活納入這種 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8922.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8940.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
政治攻防當中這樣只會造成讓需要這筆這樣一個補助款過日子的民眾更辛苦所以我想請兩位把一般性補助款刪減這個議題分別給我一篇報告給我辦公室好不好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8943.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8955.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
我想請主席長你不要把回應新聞的東西寫在裡面新聞上的我都有看到針對一般性補助款刪減的議題一份給我主席長請回主席長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8962.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8980.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
我再請教那個因為我們台中捷運南線依照原本的比例去計算明年中央應該要補助台中新台幣42億但是最後卻只承諾合撥1.68億短少了高達96% |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8984.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9001.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
那這種做法等於是嚴重的違背中央跟地方的合作承諾也直接衝擊到台中捷運南線的一個建設時程那台中市民不是次等公民因為台中市作為全國人口第二多的直轄市中央政府沒有任何理由刪減這筆補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9003.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9031.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
那國人的眼睛都是雪亮的請中央政府不要大小眼那尤其捷運南線是台中市一個重大的一個建設可以串聯海線 山線跟市中心那不僅能夠緩解交通擁捨更能夠促進地方發展帶動產業的投資南線越早完工台中市民就能夠享受這樣子一個便利那相反的如果因為中央這樣子的刁難或者拖延 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9031.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9046.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
不只是通勤族的受苦台中的經濟 觀光產業都會受到影響這是一件非常嚴重的事情所以我想在這邊我要再次先請主計長跟交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9047.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9068.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好好的溝通好不好謝謝 謝謝那省計長這邊政府在推動新青安貸款當初的構想是想要幫助無殼蝸牛買屋我們看到省計部決算報告中新青安有貸後短壽的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9069.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9089.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
而且貸款者的房價負擔比例偏低者跟過低者合計有達到3成5已經超過合理的一個負擔範圍那對於新青安優惠的利率寬鬆的條件那財政部在去年中也緊急踩煞車 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9090.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9110.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
那要求這些生貸戶必須竊竭要用於自住變成一生現貸一次等要求銀行清查違規貸款並且追回補貼利息那到今年二月底總計查核三波那連同舊青安追回的利息金額達到兩千七百多萬那這些情況 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9115.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9142.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
想要請教沈記長就是說是不是說一旦寬限期屆滿這些一定會有增加核待戶的這個房貸風險新清安政策應該要通盤檢討措施以及這個錢存信用風險精準的協助無自用住宅的一個無自用住宅者購屋這樣才能夠真正的來幫助到需要幫助的人 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9144.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9171.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
而不是說變成一個變相的帶頭炒房的政策是不是這樣子報告二位委員我們一直新清安的現象出來以前我們一直注意到這個現象所以我們去查了大概有一千多戶都會住住所以我們也請他來我們會照為的意思繼續關心新清安的貸款的問題來協助政府推動整個住宅政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9174.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9192.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
谢谢严委员我们接下来请黄三三委员谢谢主席我请主席长我们请陈主席长 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9197.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9222.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
主席長早 我想今天大家都非常關心就是剛剛很多委員都談到的是裁劃法裁劃法在去年年底通過到現在已經十個月了這十個月我剛剛聽到主席長說有關事權還在修法 還在討論我想請問這一年了去年年底通過去年四月我們就提案了 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9223.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9236.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
行政院非常清楚立法院的態度我們這對法律法本來就要修正你們也是說要去統合事權要做修法但是從通過到現在整整十個月這十個月是在睡覺嗎這十個月現在還在告訴我們說我們還要再去討論然後前天才聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9245.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9256.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
行政院說我要提版本主席長我在這邊已經講了請你們提版本講了不下百次了你們什麼時候要提版本現在還在做事權修法這一年都在睡覺嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9258.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9276.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
这个部分要分两个部分一个是你有没有睡觉还是他们在睡觉像才化法的部分主要主动在裁员的垂直和水平所以不关你的事是 这比较不是不是你的事但是才化法的版本里面有关相关分配的就是你的事了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9277.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9304.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
对然后里面包括譬如说一般性补助所以你今天要告诉我的是你没有睡觉他们都在睡觉所以他们到现在没有把事权搞清楚还在讨论是吗不是现在我要针对就是说譬如说一般性补助和计划性补助这个部分都是事权都是属于地方一半的事项那我们就来讨论一下那我们就来讨论一下你们所说的这个这个行政院现在在说他们要提修法版本有找你讨论吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9305.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9329.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
說副院長財政部主計總處要討論要在期待的時間跟地方溝通後提出完整的版本這個在我上一次總質詢的時候卓榮泰院長手上拿著說我的版本在這裡我就要拿出來到現在沒看到現在又說要去找地方政府所以表示院長那時候拿在手上的版本是騙人的 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9329.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9346.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
沒有 他事實上已經提過很多次提過很多版本但是就是不想給立法院知道不是 提過很多版本但是後來又接受很多委員的一個建議他有把一些的一個涉算值又把它加進去所以目前的一個部分所以主計長 我要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9347.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9364.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
現在反正你們怎麼說都是行政院在說啦現在說要提案我們樂觀其成但是我要問的是現在已經十月了地方政府明年的預算都編了送到各地的縣市議會了如果是你是地方的主計長請問你要怎麼編他們的稅務預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9368.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9383.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
稅務預算不知道怎麼編怎麼編稅數預算目前為止就是不知道 懸額未決10月了沒有人知道他們明年的一般性補助款還有相關的這些補助款要怎麼編你告訴我你是地方主席長你怎麼編 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9384.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9408.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
目前的話我們一般性補助款計劃型補助款我們已經連續開了三次的會所以他們都會編了對 都知道而且明確的告知哪些項目應該放在地方項目你都告訴他了但是你現在做的一個很嚴重的事你總預算送來的時候我們清楚的看到你的一般性補助款還是維持在2500億但是它的內容已經變了 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9409.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9428.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
從一般性用公式計算的補助方式換成了所謂的計劃性的明目然後另外把計劃性應該是兩千多億 兩千九百億把它降成只有三百零八億其他都要要求地方政府用一番補助款這是移花接木啊 主計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9429.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9454.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
这些相关的学者已经讲得非常清楚了这是一种偷换概念严重的影响到地方自主最严重的是请问你修正中央对地方补助办法有没有按照行政院的相关规则在沿你法律跟法律法规命令草案的时候预告60天有还是没有我们依照规定是不需要预告不需要预告为什么 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9455.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9481.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
所以都不需要告訴任何人所以行政院不需要告訴任何人你們偷偷修了這個辦法包括立法院所以你們也沒有告訴立法院是嗎複製立法院所以立法院現在要把這個辦法拿來做審查接下來審查如果不按照你們原來的辦法之後你打算怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9482.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9498.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
因为一般性补助款是在均衡地方的一个财政的一个方式所以这个办法是你随便可以动的嘛那如果立法院将来把这个授权条款拿掉了不让你随便动了你现在边的预算全部要作废对吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9499.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9523.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
不是 因為這必須要整個影響到因為115年度已經沒辦法有一些早就已經知道的問題不應該這樣偷換概念偷偷的做又造成了兩院之間很大的衝突接下來總預算就要進所謂要不要復違還是要不要復翼 要不要退回了你這些動作只會讓這件事情更雪上加霜 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9524.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9534.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我要問的是好 地方政府就受到影響的他們也不知道怎麼辦你說他們已經知道了所以你們就是一個獨裁政府是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9535.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9564.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
不是这个部分呢因为这本身是属于地方应该办的事项那包括计划型的补助因为以往都是申请所以我们现在也改很多把它简化变成说你就是把本来应该就是他们的钱先用计划性的名字叫他们要用那边的钱去挪就这么简单可是问题是计划型补助和一般性补助都是属于县市应办的事项我们同意所以这才是我们修裁划法的主要的原因对 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9564.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9579.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
因為就不要讓中央變成要仰仗中央的脾氣看中央的臉色本來是他的事情就讓他好好做但是你們這樣的方式扭曲了立法的原意立法院是原來要保障他們的一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9580.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9594.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
在他們的範圍之內不受到影響可是你們用這樣的方式讓很多的計畫性補助款變成用一般性補助款造成地方上面很大的反彈我覺得這不是一個國家的政府應該做的事 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9595.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9614.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
大大方方的出來跟大家說清楚包括立法院現在你弄到立法院要來審你的辦法當我們修完這個辦法之後你連這些相關將來的調節都沒有了那就是你們到時候最痛苦的時候主席講我要說的是不要再做這些事了不要再做這些小動作了 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9614.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9632.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
但是一般性補助款也是屬於縣市應辦的事項而不是說應該要那就大大方方跟立法院溝通呀而不是偷偷的去修一個辦法然後沒有告訴任何人啊是因為我們也是不得不的做法你不得不好我再問就最後一次這是你的決定還是行政院長的拍板決定的 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9633.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
9656.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
這是我們同仁研議出來的你們同仁研議出來給行政院所以這是行政院的立場好 接下來就是如果現在這禮拜也許這兩天或下個禮拜我們就要針對總預算因為沒有編軍人加薪因為沒有編警消停降退休金所以現在有可能會退回總預算一樣你要怎麼善後 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
9662.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
9689.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
你為什麼不編還是你編了被行政院打槍把你拿掉裁劃法立法院通過你們編然後軍人加薪你們不編請問標準是什麼他這個部分涉及到整個制度標準不知道標準是什麼我問你的法律上的標準是什麼裁劃法合憲所以你們自己認為合憲就可以編然後軍人加薪你們認為違憲就不編是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
9691.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
9718.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
不是這個部分因為軍人加薪它涉及到整個一個整個新級制度的一個公平性的一個問題行政單位叫做依法行政不管怎麼樣就是一個公告你在這邊也說過了你的做法就是依法行政公務人員只能依法行政現在是接下去假如假如任何一個公務人員來提告政府要不要給錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
9721.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
9730.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
現行法是合法的那他來提告你有義務這是法定義務之處啊主席長你要怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
9732.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
9761.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
这个部分如果我们请求那个就是要求视线所以所有的人都不能动视线结果来做编列主席长我的意思是说沟通很重要如果你们要偷偷这样修办法只是增加更多的冲突好接下来我问一下我们去年编的总预算今年收入的状况如何到十月份好像收入短促是吗收支短促根据财政部表示他是说今年可能没 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
9761.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
9791.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
目前的稅收不足可能没有办法达到预算数到现在的时间9月的净值来看好像预算只达成75%然后目前维持的执行状况大概有4000亿的转促也就是说有可能收不到那么多税入但是我们又多了非常多的支出所以去年我们的预算暴增到3.1兆然后我们宽估了非常多的税入那现在钱收不来 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
9791.909 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
9807.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
那現在我們已經把因為特別預算的關係又把所有的稅金剩餘給花光了是吧沒有114年預計有剩餘1500多億那扣掉我們要還債的1400億明年你們已經要取債了嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
9807.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
9826.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
对 但是我现在是谈114年114年度它是有剩余的那剩余扣掉还债1415亿之后它还剩下164亿所以要看今年一个整个一个在今年以前都叫做超增在今年以后叫做取债 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
9828.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
9857.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
而且赖清德时代要把蔡英文累积的所有的税金剩余几乎快要花光了也没有没有会剩多少还没有2.9那税金剩余现在还有多少税金剩余现在是没有以115年那不就是花光了吗没有因为举债额度是40%我问的是税金剩余已经没有了吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
9858.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
9876.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
就是我們把它留下來的資產全部已經清空了甚至還要取債了所以我希望預算的預估要準確每一年不是超徵就是短促這顯然我們的主計單位有點問題 好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
9877.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
9896.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
是好我希望你們盡快的把相關財化法的版本不管如何在今年現在正在審預算期間要趕快送來否則就會造成我剛剛講的總預算退回對行政院是非常不利的好謝謝我們謝謝黃珊珊委員接下來我們請羅明財委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
9907.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
9909.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
整個現在世界的經濟成長情況因為美中 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
9930.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
9953.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
這個關稅戰的關係影響了很大的佈局現在昨天又宣布要收港口稅兩邊就這樣對來對去你對於現在台灣明年度的經濟成長的預測情況是怎麼樣我們目前大概是預測明年差不多2點多 2點81左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
9958.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
9975.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
比央行預測的還要高那IMF這個機構已經預測明年的經濟是往下滑的啊那台灣的情況怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
9976.257 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10003.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
它其实要分一个是传产的一个产业那一个就是一般AI的一个产业那这AI的产业它是其实是也还持续看好但是传统产业的这个部分所以这就是我们任性预算里面要一个协助的一个重点是这样现在整个台湾的经济发展以及民间的结构事实上跟以往传统的发展是不一样的 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10004.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10029.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
主席長 過去船產的部分大概有三分之二的這些上市上櫃公司它的股價沒漲反而跌跌破20年線我們就發現這個世界在變台灣的經濟表現跟相較於全世界來講我們還可以 為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10031.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10060.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
因為我們是有AI產業還有智能產業的一個助力我們就是靠一個台積電護國神山以及周邊大概是四五十家跟AI有相關性的成長特別的熱我們很顯然就看到說世界在改變還好台灣有台積還好台灣有AI |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10061.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10086.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
那在你的報告當中也講到這個以後AI的一個概念那請問那現在輝達到底要不要留在台灣我想各地方政府都在努力當中好 那每個人需不需要多努力是 都需要努力你們有什麼可以努力的地方這個部分以我們來講的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10088.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10101.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
我們大概是譬如說有哪些需要產業協助的部分我們也能夠中央能夠來盡力這樣子產業協助你們也可以做什麼樣的協助這要看經濟部那邊他要怎麼樣來處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10103.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10132.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
我想一般的國際大廠如果要真正要落地總部要設在這邊周遭的環境就很重要當然是交通 醫療你總部放這邊就有一些學生就學的這個問題周邊還有生活圈等等所以我在看就是回歸到一個就是大家比較重視的 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10133.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10153.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
財政收支劃分法你要讓地方政府有能力把這些經費好好的去推動下水道 至少不要淹水嘛你看上次高雄啊淹大水台南也淹水就改變了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10154.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10177.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
改變了這些國際大廠它落戶的考量嘛聽說現在嘉義他們都不去了是不是應該不會吧有要去嗎還是有啊台積電機場不都停工了還會再去嗎高雄會去嗎有啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10178.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10204.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
會去嗎 哪一家會去目前高雄就有在那個那個高雄他在那個叫什麼那個男子交工區不是不是男子 另外一個那個叫什麼沒有啦 他們現在很多小孩不敢去了不會啦最主要就是淹水你想想看喔這些機器設備那麼的重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10205.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10232.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
淹了一次以後誰敢保證說不會淹所以就是下水道等等周邊置身防洪的這些經費的問題我們就再繞回來看就是財化法用本息來自新北那你們今年對新北的地方性一般的補助少了多少一般性的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10235.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10252.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
我們新北400多萬的人口本來平均下來給我們地方的就少現在還東扣西扣連一般性的補助都少了那你一少變成我自主的財源裡面就會切出一塊來彌補這個地方那變成 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10258.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10276.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
左右渐左少了多少 主席长增加了增加多少增加89增加今年增加89对 一般性不足可是我们本来预期是应该有200多整个是拨了200多 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10281.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10304.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
它是整個是重量易住財它整個是多209億那你可能就是專案補助的部分增加計畫型補助我們一般性補助它是有增加所以整個同籌分配稅款它增加415那你如果有增加的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10305.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10334.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
按照道理那地方的縣市首長要感謝你那為什麼我們侯市長他感覺經費是不足的中央是應該要多多編下來多多來支持地方的那請問你你有沒有跟侯市長有溝通過我們這個有行政院我們院長有召開一個縣市長的一個相關的一個討論的會議也有邀請 侯市長也有參加對 那他說了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10334.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10359.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
对 这个部分他是说如果是属于地方应该负担的部分他们会负起责任 是这样对 那是他负的责任那他当然是希望说中央能可以多多的补助我们也尽量我们也希望能够多多补助但是就是力有未待因为我们被拿掉4165亿之后我们没有能力继续维持原来的补助 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10360.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10379.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
外界都搞不清楚我們每年稅收都超徵去年超徵了5280億前年累積這幾年超徵了一兆8000億大家在問 奇怪那為什麼主計總處這邊你還要喊說沒錢那錢跑去哪裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10380.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10396.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
我要跟委員講像去年你說去年超徵五千多億那這五千多億中央拿到的是三千多億其他的是地方拿走了那三千多億整個到一個叫做累積剩餘裡面去那以113年度整個累積剩餘是8393億那這個部分它去挹注 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10400.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10409.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
那個疫後的特別預算還有特別戰機的一個部分整個拿掉之後4444億支援這一次的韌性預算還要舉在1056億 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10414.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10442.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
我們地方所有的建設熬熬待補希望主計長能多多體恤民情多多關愛的眼神來照顧我們新北的發展我們也希望盡量我們繳稅繳那麼多可是得到的福利跟待遇卻覺得天壤之別所以希望包括交通 捷運等等我們都需要仰賴 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10444.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10472.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
中央的多多支持才有辦法來推動比如說我們深坑地區深坑輕軌你們準備補助多少輕軌的部分深坑 對 深坑輕軌還有像我們新店的第二運動中心在安坑地區我們也爭取要做一個運動中心我們都吃吃的在等可不可以在這個部分你們可以多多的協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10472.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10499.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
所以是由各部會計劃型的補助是由各部會來負責我們都提出了計劃型的補助深坑輕軌大概280多億吧我們也希望看交通部來審查的一個情形那如果都審查通過的話主計總署主委長那邊可不可以多多支持如果交通部審查通過他會按財力分級去做分配那分配的情形之後編列預算這個部分我們就會來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10500.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10512.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
請大力支持因為都等很久了因為再繞回來就是這個軍人加薪的部分剛剛很多委員都提到我們都通過啊你們為什麼不編這一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10514.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
10541.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
請你多多考量一下軍人保家衛國非常辛苦那該加薪的部分一定要予以照顧還有退休軍警銷他們的一些基本的一些權利跟義務也應該多多照顧了現在萬物飆漲就是這一些最基層的公務人員得不到政府的關懷今年度有沒有加薪 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
10543.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
10569.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
今年没有加薪明年度会不会加薪115没有加薪也没加今年114有加薪115没加没有加那可是你这样加薪今年加也没加几%4%4%3%3%嘛鸡腿便当本来70块现在都涨到140了他是涨了一倍结果你说你加薪3块钱 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
10571.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
10597.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
等於一個便當多70塊中央你只給我3塊錢那我缺的67塊我找誰拿啊所以現在基本的員工公務員的心情就是說你加3%趕不上物價飆漲的速度所以怎麼辦這個就是我們考量所以現在國內情況就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
10598.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
10620.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
年輕人不敢生 生了怕養不起造成國安的問題所以希望竹記長可以多多想一下錢能幫忙多照顧年輕人 多照顧地方好不好是謝謝好 我們謝謝羅明財委員接下來我們請葉元智委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
10629.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
10632.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
麻煩請主計長 謝謝我們請陳主計長主計長 你好明年的教育經費是減列了27.7%是不是減列了908億 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
10645.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
10660.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這個部分不是減劣而是因為它財政收支花婚化修正的一個結果那就是比今年少了嘛但是它是真的總經費它並沒有減少所以它是依照規定來編列然後它是由地方不是啦我現在講總預算啦我現在講總預算明年的總預算是3兆350億對吧比今年還增加了1100億 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
10670.549 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
10698.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
但是總預算裡面教育經費的編列是比今年減少了908億這是客觀數字嘛客觀數字我想請教一下主計總署應該對於每個部會分配多少預算應該是有建議權吧還是說還是說其實是你們先算你們各部會報上來然後最後你會根據整個政府的施政的優先順序然後要求大家增加還是減少 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
10699.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
10721.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
是怎麼樣一個你們運作是怎麼樣一個運作方式我們大概分成幾塊一個就是重大建設計畫這個部分這個部分是屬於國化會在負責另外一個是重大科技的一個計畫的部分它是科技部在 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
10722.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
10741.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那另外一個就是說那個社會發展的部分我沒有太多時間啦我只是覺得說教育你認為因為地方的統籌分配稅款增加你就跟教育部說你少編一點錢讓地方去付 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
10742.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
10755.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
那其他的部會的錢呢你就覺得他很重要就有增加的空間所以在現在整個政府的施政裡面對於教育這一塊好像讓人家感覺不是那麼重視 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
10756.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
10783.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
好像覺得說這個教育經費不用增加然後呢再來就是地方因為統籌分配稅款增加了所以有一些支出就地方你去付就好了就不關我中央的事了那中央政府對於教育這一塊你們都不重視喔好 那是第一個我提出來的問題第二個問題是現在按照主席長的說法因為很多錢要地方去付 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
10784.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
10799.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
對吧 因為誰叫台車法通過了可是問題是一般中央給地方錢有三種嘛同時分配稅款之外還有一般性補助款跟計畫性補助款那你現在一般性補助款的做法跟以前也不一樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
10801.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
10823.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
現在的一般性補助款的做法很像以前的計劃性補助款就是地方如果你有需要你來申請我中央看狀況給你有的不見得要給你有的我就給你一半以下所以中央補助款扣的部分有的縣市擔心說你一般性補助款會不會扣一扣扣到比他統籌分配稅款增加的還要多到時候他們拿的錢也沒有比較多 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
10824.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
10836.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
還有就是計劃型補助款我舉新北市的例子新北市的捷運去跟中央去申請90億結果忽然間公文過去回來之後跟新北市講說我要少給你72%那你要地方怎麼去規劃他的財政支出 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
10843.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
10863.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
这个部分我先讲交通的部分交通的部分交通部这个部分它是没有减只是因为我们这经会整个是没办法编列上去所以这个是它往后延所以这个部分是属于捷运的部分那再来就是说什么叫往后延等于说以后它再该补足 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
10864.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
10888.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
他會再補租只是今年不給你的意思是說72%是今年不給以後會把這7.5萬補回來因為今年大部分都是要舉債的所以這個部分他就貨配的額度你們去做分配那分配有的是按照工程的一個進度去做分配還有第二個問題是很多是中央去地方說要做的東西比如說那個時候過去講說班班有冷氣嘛電費中央來出嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
10889.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
10915.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
而中央承諾東西現在中央也不補助了叫地方去出所以大家才會講說這叫中央請客地方買單那這個狀況也很多啊斑斑油冷氣這已經施行多年了我是舉例啦我是舉例啦那還有很多其他的嘛譬如說像我們在新北市交通部那時候幫民進黨立委助選啊跑到板橋來說要蓋太阪輕軌的攝後支線啊說錢都準備好了啦要來蓋啦那這個錢會給嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
10918.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
10936.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
這個部分整個要看你不能講說選舉的時候就來這邊開支票然後選後那個地方來跟中央申請的時候要嘛可行性研究卡半天要嘛就是給了錢在這邊卡就覺得因為地方統籌分配稅款已經增加會出現這個狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
10937.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
10956.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
沒有 他一般沒有 我現在因為撿到了我只建議主席走地方現在是覺得說很多都搞不清楚狀況到底錢怎麼給補助會不會減少搞不清楚狀況其實會滿困擾的真的你們中央地方不能開個會嗎可以 我們經常我們已經開過三次會了開過三次會但是據說啦就是能夠去參加的人也很少 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
10957.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
10964.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
然後針對大家關鍵性的一些問題也都沒有回答所以大家現在還是無撒撒啦主要是財主要回去說明啦趕快解決啦 謝謝謝謝葉委員接下來我們請楊瓊英委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
10985.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
10989.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
謝謝主席 楊群發言 邀請主席長我們請陳主席長委員好主席長好115年度的總預算裡頭政府可以說是創下了惡例警校退休 軍人加薪國會已經三讀通過法定的法律行政院也沒有提復議 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11011.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11025.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
總統府也已經公佈施行然後呢行政院竟然就違法的不編沒有編入到115年度的總預算我明白的告訴你們不編就是違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11026.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11048.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
不編就是違法主委長你過去也說了警察人員人事條例提高警銷的這個退休金還有志願運每一個月加幾三萬塊那這個軍人待遇條例各部會在送你自己送你主機處的時候沒編那你的職責是什麼請問你的職責是什麼請問為什麼沒編這是誰指令的 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11055.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11083.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
这个部分因为它整个的一个加薪的制度打破它整个一个薪资一个整个的制度所以这个部分行政院已经提事宪所以也这个部分是说主席长你的职责你认为这样符合依法行政吗你目前的职责不管你去提什么都还没有结果之前你就是要依法行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11085.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11101.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
欸 行政院沒有附議總統府公布施行之你是主席長欸那你看到這筆預算你敢送到立法院來你送了一個違法沒有編的預算欸主席長 你是 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11102.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11121.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
你的职責啊而且你也非常專業啊你為什麼會任由這樣本席再次請教你是誰指令你是誰指令的是誰決定不要編的請教依法你必須要編請問依你的專業你不可能這麼做我可以大膽這麼告訴你誰告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11124.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11127.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
誰指令你不用變主席長 你的職責就是依法籌劃審編跟執行行政 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11145.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11169.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
政府的一個總預算你的監督跟你預算的行政效率這對於整個預算相關的法規你提出了擬定修正等意見你是必須組計長是必須從預算編制到執行的過程你要確保政府的財政運作跟合法性嘛對不對對不對那你有合法嗎你違法 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11175.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11201.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
行政院也沒有附議總統府公佈至立法院三讀通過這是法定的法律耶可以這麼做嗎因為這影響的確非常的深遠所以整個部分我們整個考量的結果就是說 因為你主席長 本席請問你違法不編的這個預算請教 當你看到這樣違法你有提出什麼意見給院長嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11203.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11215.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
請教你有提出什麼意見給院長嗎因為這個部分主要是那個人事總處還有那個請問 針對本期的提問你有提意見給院長嗎因為你是省紀長 主紀長是 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11220.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11245.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
你主席长的职权刚刚本席一个字一个字念给你听那在这样违法的预算送到立法院来的时候你在这个过程你有告诉院长吗我们是希望都尽量能够依法行政什么叫尽量你本来就应该依法行政什么尽量台湾是一个民主法治国家你一个主席长你可以说尽量两个字 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11246.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11262.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
針對本期的提問 你有在這個過程有給院長什麼樣的建議嗎 有沒有這個部分我們就整個考量就是說你有沒有 你告訴我有還是沒有首席長 你有沒有依你的專業 你的職責 你有建議給院長什麼意見嗎 有沒有有還是沒有有還是沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11276.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11305.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
你還是不敢說你是專業的組計長欸還是誰下令你 命令你不用編這麼的大膽違法有沒有人下令你不用編有沒有你既不回答有沒有建議院長你也不回答有沒有編台灣可以這樣子嗎可以如此的違法嗎你搞得連國軍都雞飛狗跳欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11307.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11325.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
聽到這個訊息三讀通過總統府公告之在募兵的時候都說每個月要加幾三萬結果馬上又一個髮夾彎不了不可以告知國軍說你不可以用三萬這個誘因來招募你讓國軍怎麼辦啊可以如此嗎劉機長我希望再聽到你有沒有在這段時間你建議院長有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11338.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11342.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
有沒有誰 命令你不用編有沒有主席可以都不回答嗎你是專業的主席長可以都不回答嗎你把你沒有回答的時間扣下來怎麼可以 這是一個答詢是一個詢答 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11361.877 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11390.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
有答有询有询有答你都不回答这是国会可以如此吗主席长刚刚也有答复而且这么明确的违法可以如此吗我们是不是在请我们主席长人民情何以堪那人事总处他提出来说这个影响非常巨大所以这个部分考量的结果所以才没有编那所以我们就整个提视线那等视线的结果我们依结果来编列主席长我还是一句话告诉你 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11390.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11399.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
你是專業的你不是任何一個政黨的官員你是中華民國台灣的官員我們政府的官員你必須依你的職責好 謝謝楊瓊瑩委員我們接下來請黃國昌委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11420.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11446.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
謝謝主席 有請沈記長我們請沈主記長對不起 我請的是沈記長抱歉 請沈沈記長先恭喜沈記長通過人事同意權的審查謝謝委員當初為了人事同意權的事情你來找我的時候我就很直接跟你說 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11447.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11466.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們在公部門沒有私人之間的請託我們看的就是表現我也公開肯定審計部作為一個獨立機關是中華民國過去這幾年來少數應該是唯一能夠獨立發揮職權的機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11469.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11496.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
所以台灣民眾黨立法院黨團在你人事同意權行使的過程當中八票全部都支持你不是對你個人的肯定是對於審計部的工作在這個狗皮倒罩烏煙瘴氣的情況之下還可以扮演一點起碼的功能我這樣子開場是因為我昨天看到一件事情我心情很沉重 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11498.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11520.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
但我也要讓你知道你們工作的重要性昨天我看到一個新聞台灣男主的總教練黃澤民請辭表面上面的理由好像是我們踢輸了泰國1比6但實際上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11529.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11556.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
他請辭了以後台灣男足隊的隊長陳柏良也不忍了他說我們的足協的作為就是台灣人在欺負台灣人去泰國我們的國家隊只能去快遞酒店一天集訓的費用一千塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11558.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
11560.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
要健身房沒健身房你要幹嘛結果球員把照片拿回來長成是這個樣子我的印象裡我們在立法院對體育組對補助協會的預算我們是大力的支持結果在搞什麼東西我們的男足隊出去 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
11588.826 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
11618.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
是這種待遇搞到總教練辭職男主的隊長也忍不下去痛批協會的作為就是台灣人在欺負台灣人這本來是應該要質詢體育部的為什麼質詢你審計部之前你應該還記得不管是在這個場合還是我請你們來我辦公室 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
11619.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
11642.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
我請你們針對有關於各個體育協會拿到錢以後是真的給足協真的給運動協會用在選手的身上還是去胡搞瞎搞我請你們辦了好幾次查核有球員沒有拿到錢收到扣角平單移送減掉我揭發的 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
11649.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
11678.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
有協會實際上面沒有錢給選手結果編列編列給廠商的轉播經費很慷慨啊原列五十萬直接什麼每一場本來五十萬直接一百二十萬 一百二十萬 一百三十萬就給沒有錢花在選手身上 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
11680.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
11703.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
有錢去給特定的媒體這什麼垃圾行為啊你們的審計報告都做出來了我現在我可以直接跟審計長講很多球迷很憤怒非常多球迷很憤怒我只有個卑微的要求審計部調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
11706.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
11732.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
有關於監督行政法人訓練中心補助團體執行情況的書面報告還有你們去查核中華民國儲血相關費用核銷合理性的疑義講得很客氣叫核銷合理性我的看法是違法性不是合理性這兩份報告在審計部的官網上面公告 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
11733.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
11761.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
給所有關心的球迷看好不好看我們國家的經費是怎麼半胡搞瞎搞的該用在選手身上的沒有用在選手身上這樣胡搞瞎搞這個我們照委員的意思那現在 今天喔我拜託你今天就把這個報告公告在審計部的網站上不要說我今天在這邊質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
11763.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
11789.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
我講話向來有憑有據省紀部我相信社會有一定信任的程度你把這兩個報告公告在省紀部的網站上讓所有關心我們台灣運動發展所有關心足球所有關心我們國家隊的球員為什麼會受到這樣子的待遇總教練請職 男足足球隊的隊長不忍了 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
11790.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
11812.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
出來砰說就是台灣人欺負台灣人是我們立法院該給的錢沒給嗎還是錢給下去了以後怎麼被胡搞瞎搞的可以嗎可以因為剛成立運動部我們用善意的整個制度我們要我們的處長幫他盤點一下讓他進入軌道 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
11816.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
11839.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
沒關係主席站起來了你看我今天我真的要問的PPT我第一頁都還沒開始我真的要問的PPT我第一頁都還沒開始時間已經到了我尊重其他後面要等的委員但我跟沈記長講這件事很重要你們很努力做了這些查核報告這些查核報告如果沒有公開的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
11841.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
11865.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
我們關心的球迷疼惜我們選手非常多的台灣人大家不知道真相不知道錢怎麼被胡搞瞎搞的啊今天下班以前就公開可不可以可以好 謝謝謝謝黃委員那相關的報告今天公告在網站上面謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
11869.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
11871.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
接下來我們請張祺凱委員好我們請陳沈記長陳主記長委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
11898.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
11922.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
主席你好委員好學長好財化法修正本來是要落實這個地方自治的可是現在行政院一路都在造謠說地方的錢被分光光了我給大家看一個病圖我去做了統計其實民國八十八年精神的時候我們中央政府的這個進入的這個金額那時候只有60%中央啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
11925.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
11951.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
主席 沈記長在點頭了嗎結果你看 財化法修正完之後我幫他做了一個統計還有高達65.6%表示現在中央政府還是有錢的不要講說地方分你太多錢第二個 中央還是富豪更嚴重的 接下來我要跟主記長跟沈記長討論一個非常嚴重的事情我覺得主記長 蔣卿晉最近做了太多違法的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
11952.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
11961.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
主計跟審計應該是很受到人家尊重的特別是主計一定要依法去編列預算剛才講金人家心不編 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
11962.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
11986.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
警消的退休金的年金提高也不便這已經是違法了所以我們今天會立足把明年度中央政府總計算要退回這是一個第二個我們來看還動了一個大家沒有注意到可是對我們地方教育跟基礎建設連捷運都受到影響的很大的一個地方可能很多人到現在都不曉得主計總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
11989.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12010.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
行政院竟然把我們的計劃型補助款明年度我們的計劃型補助款本來應該有2954億大家看那個餅圖那是中央應該給地方的計劃型補助款砍到只剩下308第一個這個額度太大了 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12018.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12045.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
第二個 那很多建設對地方都非常非常的重要包括到我們小孩子的營養午餐祝給你們財化法通過的時候我算給大家聽本來明年度因為財化法通過之後中央下放這個富豪中央集錢要集錢下放給地方要照顧地方的4165億結果竟然你們可以去動一個辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12048.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12066.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
暗度成倉 你是土匪是不是像土匪一樣搶回了將近三分之二的搶回去2954億裡面的2646億欸 煮雞丁這樣草法法都不用修啊我們修完你又下放4100多億下去結果你自己弄一個辦法把計畫權補助款砍到308欸你又搶回去三分之二的錢欸 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12076.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12100.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
而且這個錢你謀著良心的主席可以講你回答問題之前這些錢都是非常重要的我給大家看一下有什麼地方的捷運營養午餐對不對台南市的這個捷運南線你明年度本來要給他多少錢對不對你現在剩下砍到剩1.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12102.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12123.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
他怎麼做啊 這整個影響了整個人民的這個權益啊我看你剛才回答立委說不是不給 晚一點給都已經蓋了 第二個你時間往後拖這是多嚴重的事情 我們再看一個我去做了一個統計拜託 先給電話給我看這是被砍掉的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12128.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12145.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
教育經費被砍了659億包括什麼基本的教育人事費的還有辦公費營養午餐 水電費 冷氣連那個退伏本來要退伏支出的限職的待遇659億都貸還牽扯到 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12149.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12165.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
水利的輸進跟清淤你這個怎麼砍得下去經濟部河川的輸進少了10億內政部地下下水道的輸進跟清淤少14億這是不是都很重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12167.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12194.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
是不是都很重要这个是很重要 但是问题这个是譬如说国中小的一个营养午餐 水电会还有地方的一个水利疏俊这些相关的会用这都是属于地方应办的事项只是中央着于补助所以这个部分我们就是说有因为我们实在是预算编不出来没有办法编所以才会把它有些事项回归地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12196.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12223.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
主席長第一個你還是歷史以來最高的錢最多中華民國最有錢的就是今年的114年的中華民國明年115年更有錢了超過三兆耶你怎麼可以坐在金山上面一直喊窮而且第二個你剛剛講的都從地方搶的耶你都認為他重要結果你現在不你把他拿到中央來地方沒有錢要不要坐我最後做一個結論因為主席站出來了我看看耶我給你看一個很重要的文件 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12224.657 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12242.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
這個是在8月28號 黨團協商的時候那一天連柯建銘 吳思瑤 陳培宜都簽字喔 主席你們民進黨也簽字喔那時候我們就注意到了你們把一般補助款要變成申請這兩個很大問題嘛一般性的補助款很多都法定預算對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12248.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12273.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
你怎麼可以要去申請呢這是第一個問題第二個他本來錢被你排擠了嘛所以當初你看我們當初就說賴清德當台南市長的時候就說中央不應該急錢又急錢行政院你不應該去扣錢去解釋對於地方的補助款額度你不能夠調整各個縣市的這個金額的同時把明年的一般補助款變成是審查 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12275.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12278.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
三檔的檔邊 我們三檔去協商這個都有牽涉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12280.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12309.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
你怎麼現在推翻我你不是自打嘴巴嗎這個是總統通過追加預算案的時候的主決議只有法律效用你這是違法這人家可以告你賭職所以你現在有幾個大的問題你對地方的影響那麼大對營養午餐影響那麼大對捷運影響那麼大教育影響那麼大所以最後我做個結論你是依法行政我做兩個拜託的事情第一個 回去好好再看看不要再這樣砍地方的補助環了 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12311.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12328.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
你砍太多了 计划型砍太多了第二个不要把一般补助款还要再申请这两个都是要处理的对 这个部分我都有改了有改了就是申请字的部分大部分都改成填报字所以这个部分就会那你就违反了这个当初我们这个规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12328.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12343.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
沒有規範規定 因為為什麼因為一般性補助和計劃性補助都是對地方政府硬辦事項的卓與補助並不是說一定的補助所以我們要衡量財政的一面來做協助因為後面還有人 抱歉 抱歉 太簡單第一個 朱業定 朱業定拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12346.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12352.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
你把計劃型補助款2900多億砍到308這是非常明確的這傷害太大了你要回去檢討不能夠這樣砍這是第一點第二你一般型的補助款本來以前是不用省的你現在變成要省我們當初又跟你講了這是總統公告喔你不要違法你這樣下去會變成賭職好不好請你今天再拜託一下你要盯好好不好這是財政紀律而且要依法行政拜託一下好 謝謝好 謝謝我們張啟凱委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12376.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12384.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
接下來我們請蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員不在場下一位我們請謝依鳳委員好謝謝主席我想要請主計長跟沈計長請陳主計長陳沈計長 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12402.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12419.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
好委員好我想先就教我們沈記長因為新出爐我想要請問從你過去六年擔任我們中央政府的沈記長那你有什麼樣子重大查核出我們重大的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12423.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12436.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
因為從住住面的因為系統性的風險很多像那個NCO的時候都那個進口證明都變造或者是都那個這些我們都查出來或者 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12438.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12442.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
用AI去查行政機關好像廠商違法這些查出來機關都沒有去扣押他的保證金那些保證金我們收回來一萬六千多元 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12462.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12467.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
我們也有用這種數位損技去查核微標微標的東西也查了差不多有發現有2000多個手上非常高有問題我們都移送檢調檢調也都啟示了200多件 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12483.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12498.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
这个大概我们都有在做这些讲的很多从制度面来讲我们也创立了本来都只有一个审核报告我们现在把营业非营业公务 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12499.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12522.76 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
這些就弄成就按這個把它編成一個審核報告比較容易讓大眾閱讀成立了總結算的那個查核平台他可以用單日進去以後整個就可以查5年到10年的相關的我們審計資料那你第二任期呢你第二任期重大的 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12523.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12541.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
第二 任期剛剛講的我們潤性剛剛在談現在極端氣候我們有一個提出潤性審計像我們的下水道 排水道像那個雨水排水道現在極端氣候來的時候都大水嘛我們就希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12542.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12563.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
从润性审计的时候就是希望把它的那个雨水排水道这个本来是7000多公里现在还完成5000多公里还差2000多公里因为现在整个极端气候从哪里来不晓得所以我们提出润性审计所以为什么最近容易淹水你认为是从雨水下水道 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12564.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12582.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
因為我們要多方考慮除了它極端下雨量很大但是怎麼樣把水排出去變得很重要你哪一個階段清衣沒有做好或者哪一個階段沒有把它打通 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12583.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12602.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
它都會造成整個淹水這一次南部有一些淹水那就是我們看高雄有兩百多公里台南也有兩百多公里都沒有那個以水下水道都沒做像這個我們會慢慢要求國土計畫署盡量幫助地方把這事情做好這個對人民的生命財產安全影響很大 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12610.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12619.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
所以我們要做的像我們最近強調我們台灣的優勢就是AI那我們會從AI裡面來發展智慧審計智慧審計就是一種有些事情都藏在細節裡面我們用智慧審計可以把它整個系統性的風險剛剛講的幾個系統性的風險找出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12636.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
12645.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
再來我們因為國家勇氣很重要像財政要勇氣各方面的勇氣我們都會慢慢做最後我們是希望能幫助整個政府促進良善助理 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
12651.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
12677.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
好 那現在中央政府跟地方政府的確發聲了就是因為這個才化法我也想要就教於主計長那這個才化法的修正草案我相信未來你們也要做相關的討論那到底就是地方政府的一般性補助款怎麼樣處理你是不是可以跟大家說明一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
12678.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
12689.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
這個是這樣因為財劃法本來是我們給地方政府差不多一億四十有一兆多一億五當然我看了主計總署的也有一兆一千多這個是事和錢要好好因為我們地方租住實行很多年事和錢要大家分清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
12699.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
12725.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
這個地方來做可能比較順利你也不要再去干涉地方了這個把它劃分區除錢走下去就從這裡來再來看這些整個一般性補助款整個整理對國家對整個中央和以後的和諧會非常大家都變成爭議點就是說要中央要和地方好好坐下來談一談 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
12726.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
12743.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
还有除了一般性补助款还有计划性补助款的部分是不是计划性补助款刚刚听主席长讲它已经不是按申请住了它改成它会有公宿化尽量公宿化这个就是说不要人为操作 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
12744.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
12765.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我今天要下一個農田水路的問題我們有多少農田水路各縣市政府有多少年農田水路我們這個下去大家哪一些問題要處理有一個公式化那公式化什麼時候會出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
12766.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
12782.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
公訴的話因為主席總書還有國發會還有行政院在這整體的衡量但是就是說我們目前如果按照公示的話會不會違背當初我們修法的時候的這個應該還好應該還好應該不會因為最重要的前國訴一體的並只有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
12793.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
12813.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
中央都出了地方就少地方都出了中央就少但是我們是誰這錢用在哪裡功效最大誰來做功效最大有的時候要全國一致性的你像珠三環紅那是從上中下游一直做下去這個是可能中央要負起責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
12814.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
12827.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
大概錢就歸到中央來這個大概我比較偏向用這樣時事求是的問題解決這些問題好 謝謝謝謝 謝謝鳳委員接下來我們請林思明召委好 謝謝召委我先請主席長好了請陳署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
12847.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
12856.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
署長早 委員好署長我想今年的一到八月收穫員工每人每月的經常性薪資平均數是47709元年增2.98%實際的成長是1.12%我們乍看之下數據是很漂亮 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
12867.952 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
12886.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
但是我們再看看中位數只有38217元實際成長只有0.94%換句話說薪資成長的平均數被少數高薪族群所拉高而絕大多數的基層其實沒有感受不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
12891.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
12908.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
再來我們看貧富的差距113年度家庭收支調查最高20%與最低20%家庭的可支配所得差距高達6.14%昨天我看到主委總署公布受僱員工的薪資統計 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
12909.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
12931.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
在通膨趋緩後基本工資調漲下昨天公布的今年1到8月收穫員工的實際薪資呈現連續17個月成長超過通膨所以要請問主席長這是否代表說我們薪資成長超過物價上漲的速度連續打敗通膨 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
12934.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
12961.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
目前是这样 有这么乐观吗目前评估是这样子这么乐观但是因为有一些譬如说比较经常性购买的一个东西它就是它占的幅度是比较大比较高譬如说食物的部分是占2.64然后肉类占的比较多水果也占的比较多所以这种对于民众来讲影响比较大所以他们就会觉得说没有感受到通膨但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
12961.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
12975.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
感受到通盆下降但是問題就是說因為譬如說油料 原物料這些在整個國際價格是下降的所以這個部分也真的是影響非常的大是 那個署長我想這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
12977.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
12994.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
基层的感受就像你讲的因为民生物资还是在上涨它的涨幅还蛮高的所以普遍感觉好像这个物价没有跟薪资的差距并没有有一个非常大的感受 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
12995.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13010.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
所以做這麼樂觀的一個評估我覺得還是要把相關的民生物資的因為它的漲幅那麼高可能是不是要做一個比較真實的一個呈現 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13011.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13028.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
有 我们相关的民生物资的一个相关的涨幅我们都有公布然后也包括中低收入的高龄的这些的我们都有做一个公布相关的一个那个通膨物价的一个稳定其实主席我想说的就是说 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13028.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13039.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
因為像你剛才講的那幾種情況之下我們看到今年8月勞工他的平均薪資就1到8月勞工平均薪資是48,098元年增2.92% |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13044.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13064.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
那加上獎金與加班費等非經常性的薪資後總薪資平均達61646元年增4.38%我一直強調乍看之下很樂觀顯示我們薪資普遍成長但是我們現在要看這個經常性的中位數只有38000多塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13066.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13089.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
吉尼係數0.341雙雙叫去年為真所以主委長這是否代表我們大多數的居城的勞工根本或者居城的這些職員根本沒感受到所謂的一個心臟潮普遍沒有感到說我們薪水很高 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13090.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13108.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
所以这个部分因为中位数是38,000所以大部分居中集中在38,000左右那有的高薪的部分譬如说有的是金融业的或者是一些相关之通业就前面20%的族群它就比较高那这样整个平均数它整个其实会拉高 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13108.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13133.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
会拉高但是事实上每一年加薪这都是也事实上也是如此也是连续加薪加了很多年包括基本工资的一个调整都有做一个调整所以整个一个薪资也是都往上涨只是说可能他没有办法就是说因为如果是搭退所谓民生物价的一个部分他感受没有那么的一个好 没关系 指揮长我再问你物价的问题 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13134.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13143.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
根據主委總書10月8號所公布的數據9月的消費者物價指數 CPI年增1.25%比較8月 今年8月的1.60%稍微降低也以連續5個月低於2%的通膨的警戒線創下4年半以來的新低 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13158.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13176.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
但是我們根據經濟日報的報導指出有17項的重要民生物資漲幅高達2.47%創育一年半的新高該您提到的豬肉方面收到近期毛豬供應量的減少漲幅高達8.74% |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13179.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13189.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
創下超過一年半以來的新高那麼雞蛋也因為替代效果的關係更創近兩年來的最大漲幅還有房租也漲2.14%外食費用也預計上漲超過2%我們電價在10月份預計還要上漲4.3% |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13200.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13215.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
所以主委長在民生物資持續上漲的狀況下雖然有些物資的價格稍微下滑回穩但是我們長期來看對於今年的CPI影響大概會有什麼樣程度的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13217.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13245.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
我们其实是它是因为譬如说你刚刚讲的水果 蔬菜这些等包括肉类那是因为在造成它租资的一个供应减少所以它肉类整个提升猪肉类的部分但是这整个现象大部分都是短暂它很快的就会改善那所以外食会的部分除了这个之外因为我们总共有368项的一个调查的一个项目所以就这样 简单来说你还是认为说虽然有些这个 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13246.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13261.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
这都比较短暂时间的有下滑回稳所以你认为整个我们的物价指数就是到今年年底它的整个影响大约会到什么程度会还是在维持在2%以下吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13262.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13281.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
是 我們大概預估今年整個整體的大概是在1.76左右那明年大概是預估在1.64左右明年會更低會 會更低 是這樣子那有沒有考量這個考量到美國高關稅的因素如果這個談判下來如果不樂觀的話會不會對我們物價的一個上漲會有影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13283.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13305.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
這個部分是影響到的可能是薪資的部分因為為什麼它停班對物價沒有影響對物價比較因為等於說按照道理是比較會有一點點緊縮是這樣子所以是本身來看的話譬如說你如果說如果關稅談判不樂觀的話我們要面臨高關稅那對於我們的物價上漲不會有影響嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13312.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13339.194 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
这个部分影响目前还不是很明显还不是很明显但是问题是停班做预估就是说一些的推估就是说停班人力的减少这个部分所以你对明年会降到1.6%应该讲的你很有信心是 因为我们重点其实现在比较高的是譬如说肉类 蔬菜类水果这些外食但是明年最近现象会减低那我现在请那个省议长好 谢谢 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13342.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13370.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
請審計長來 審計長委員好您剛才提到這個AI智慧審計我想請教你審計部今年把打擊詐欺 AI發展還有空污治理等議題列為專章所以請問打詐這種跨部會的工作審計部是否有發現協調失靈 資源大量重複投入而結果效果不彰有這種現象嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13372.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13377.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
看起來是我們的損失意見裡面因為目前還沒有看到因為現在的打炸現在炸片越來越嚴重所以多元的方式可能都要試所以豬園的使用當然是看起來每個部會的配置 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13393.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13420.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
有沒有重複投入 有沒有重複投入是有這種情景但是因為現在詐騙 我幫他看他的手法非常多對 現在到8月他們統計出來我們那個詐騙的金額六 七百億被害人也越一直升高一直升高 案件也一直大所以這個是一個非常嚴重的事情所以我們政府投入大量的資源去防詐 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13422.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13450.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
那我們就講說這樣會不會資源重複投入結果效果成效不彰審計部有沒有去提出一個非常這個就是比較能夠資源能夠真正花在這個刀口上然後又可以達到他們一個防詐的效果另外我想審計部剛才一直提到說你在推行AI的審計資料中心還要導入深層AI |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13451.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13468.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
以本席的立場 以我的立場我是支持創新支持更有效率的方式但是我同時也擔憂導入AI工具作為輔助後是否會造成過度依賴演算法就AI的演算法的現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13469.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13496.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
因為我們告訴我們做任何事就像我們小時候寫的安全第一所以一定是在像這種AI有道德風險我一定要放在那個工作機構最後一個問題如果說演算法判斷有誤而導致審計結論的謬誤我們審計部有沒有建立一個控管的一個機制有 我們現在請專家寫者再研究這一個有啦非常謝謝我們有做這方面的研究好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13498.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13522.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
我們謝謝林思明召委接下來我們請林楚英委員林楚英委員林楚英委員不在場下一位蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員蔡易瑜委員不在場下一位徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員徐欣穎委員不在場下一位王世堅委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13548.497 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13573.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
謝謝主席 我請主計長我們請陳主計長委員好主計長 是你們跟主計處還有包括我們今天列席的審計處你們確實是很用心 努力於公務這是事實是 謝謝我確實非常肯定主計處 審計處你們的貢獻 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13576.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13604.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
不過你主計處的數字不能有那麼大的差異必須很詳實因為主計處掌管的全國所有包括經濟發展財政各部會還有我們全民工作努力所有的這些成果這些數字都必須很詳實的去記錄詳實的去分析那這個部分我對於 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13608.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13620.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
貧窮這個計算我覺得這個奇怪我們怎麼跟世界這幾個主流國家不但有差異而且這十幾年來都差異越差越大 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13621.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13643.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
我們就講美國他們的統計好了美國統計了全世界有140個國家他有把每個國家的大概的這些數字他們有做了一些分析那他們的分析以外包括英國、德國、日本、韓國這些先進國家他們也都有他們的分析 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13645.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13668.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
所有他們的分析起來他們認為他們自己國家貧窮率大概從14%到16%中間14%到16%我們講平均大概15%以他們認為他們自己國家的貧窮率但是在我們國家我們貧窮率的計算 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13669.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13695.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
我們對我們自己國內貧窮人口的占比數我們的計算大概照這樣看你們所公布你們最近公布的一個是7.13%大概是全世界平均15%的一半一半不到那當然如果這是事實這很好喔表示我們國人 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13697.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
13708.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
我們居於世界之冠我們消滅了貧窮但是我怕這些數字如果不詳實有很大的誤差那我們不是志氣氣人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
13711.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
13736.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
777人的另外一面就是什麼就是說那糟糕那對於我們沒有估算到而實質他是在貧窮線的民眾那變成我們的社福政策我們接濟不到他們這是另外一個更嚴重傷腦筋的問題所以我今天就教於你那照這些估算不但有差 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
13738.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
13751.743 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
我們實質政府在有救助有補助的這一個部分低收入中低收入根據你們公布低收入人數從107年2018年我剛列了這個10年下來31萬多到今年25萬9有減少中低收入從33萬多到24萬2 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
13763.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
13786.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
我就把25萬924萬2加起來我們就是有50萬位有接受政府救助補助的低收入戶跟中低收入戶人口50萬人可是這有兩個差距出來了跟我們主計處自己所公佈的7.13那就有很大的出路了 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
13788.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
13816.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
我們有救助有補助25.9萬加24.2萬這55萬人大概啊大概等於佔我們總人口的2.3%那也就是從你的7.13到2.3有將近5%的黑數那是奇怪那他是誰很怪囉他是貧窮啊但是政府沒有補助他 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
13817.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
13841.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
沒有救助他這是一大黑數這就是所謂的窮人黑數窮人黑數那窮人黑數還來自另外一個民間的版本的估算差更多民間好幾個公民團體他們都很專業喔他們有的來自於我們退休的 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
13842.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
13864.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
公務人員有的是各方面會計統計這部分的學者專家教授他們去組成的他們估算他們的估算他們是以年收入不到國人可以支配所得中位數的六成他以這樣子中位數的六成下去算他們認為有12%到13%的全國人口是位於 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
13870.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
13892.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
貧窮線的是位於貧窮線那百分之十二到百分之十三那是多少人那就是兩百八十萬到三百萬人欸土地長那就跟我們剛剛提的低收入戶中低收入戶加起來的五十萬人那黑數就高達兩百五十萬啦那比 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
13894.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
13911.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
我剛剛跟你提到的你公布的7.137.13的黑數70萬那如果照民間估算的結果那這個貧窮的人數窮人的黑數將會高達250萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
13920.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
13929.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
我們台灣才2380萬人也就是說我們有高達一成的我們台灣同胞們他是處於貧窮線 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
13931.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
13958.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
這些窮人黑素他是沒辦法接受到政府任何的福利政策任何的救助補助也就是我們政府努力了數十年全民努力了數十年當這些貧窮黑素發生不幸一般生活不濟的時候我們政府我們全民接不到他們這個就是我在害怕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
13960.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
13982.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
這就是這些黑數一直困擾著我們大家的到底是多少如果我們以現實的觀點來看確實也可以從很多現象看得出來包括從各價位的餐廳包括從一般的小吃包括連在車站連在公園 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
13988.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
14016.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
這幾年來陸陸續續增加的這些遊民的人數包括我們可以聽得到的街坊鄰居朋友新聞報導的很多這些黑素民眾他們如果遇到更糟糕的家庭不幸的時候那會導致家破人亡 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
14017.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
14046.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
所以主計長我麻煩你務必第一點回去你們把這些數字到底是怎麼回事是民間團體算帳呢還是我們主計處這個部分我們有盲點因為你們就等於出現了兩個數字兩個不同的數字本身就產生了70萬位民眾的差距這個就已經是個黑數第二點是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
14049.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
14066.597 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
你回去跟衛福部折騰他們衛福部詳實的算一下到底他列的低收入戶中低收入戶他是怎麼樣的一個統計的哪樣的一個資料不要動不動 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
14068.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
14088.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
他們動不動就拿一個說這個排富條款這個因為他怎樣他拿一個三等親裡面有什麼工作這個可以接濟他這個接濟那個接濟講半天結果這怎麼叫接濟呢他如果有個三等親年輕朋友 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
14090.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
14112.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
有正職工作每個月3萬多塊的收入那怎麼有辦法去接濟這一位實質有需要幫助的窮人黑素哪有辦法接濟年輕他剛畢業自己的生活費租金不打緊還要還房貸所以有一些都變成我們政府單位我們自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
14114.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
14123.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
自己往自己資格去想說理所當然的你是三等親你就可以去依這個親事實上不然所以我必須講很現實的在現實的 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
14129.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
14153.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
陽光底下我們有很多辛苦工作的百姓們都自顧不暇的我們政府不要一廂情願的把這些都認為說這個有這樣子的三等金所以就不把它列入這個補助就不把它列入貧窮線的補助那這種想法是截然錯誤好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
14155.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
14171.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
好 謝謝委員數字想計算更仔細一點要接住每一位我們台灣同胞需要幫助補助的朋友第一步就是要從詳實的數字開始詳實的計算起好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
14171.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
14189.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
好謝謝委員那我這裡也說明一下因為衛福部他整個中低收入戶的算法他是要把動產或不動產他有先納入考量那我們這整個是就薪資的一個一個去設算所以我們是7點多他把動產不動產的中低收入的資格 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
14190.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
14212.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
納入考量之後所以它整個一些中低收入乎才會變成一點多這個部分所以這個部分就是說我們將來看要怎麼樣跟衛福部來討論說盡量這個部分要怎樣來我們放寬這個限制是這樣子好 處長那我也跟您提一下我也跟沈記長也說明一下其實這個我們立法院 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
14212.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
14232.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
我還有其他立委我們有提案我們認為早就應該把這個排富標準金額提高這個我們還在立法院奮戰當中但是我希望說至少我們主計處、審計處在這個部分提供意見給他們的時候要求他們應該與時俱進去調高 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
14236.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
14251.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
這個所謂的你不補助的範圍不應該把這個標準還列在四五十年前的標準這樣每個人都被你排富掉了那就講得台灣就均富了嗎台灣就沒有貧窮了嗎事實上不是這樣好不好好我們謝謝王委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
14256.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
14285.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
今日登记发言委员均已询答完毕那本日会议做如下的决定一报告及询答完毕二委员质询未及答复或请补充资讯请相关部会于一周以内书面答复委员令要求期限者从期锁定三本日会议议程已进行完毕还有不在场委员补题书面质询以并列入记录刊登公报并请议事人员协助处理休息 |