| IVOD_ID |
169377 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/169377 |
| 日期 |
2026-05-12 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-5-9 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第5會期第9次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
5 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
9 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第5會期第9次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Clip |
| 開始時間 |
2026-05-12T14:46:41+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2026-05-12T15:02:27+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
00:15:46 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| 支援功能[1] |
gazette |
| video_url |
https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0cec772f6559b9e464deef913771db0fc095463f94dab4fdd817488d83a1324c1b1b31f5abdde3215ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 委員名稱 |
洪毓祥 |
| 委員發言時間 |
14:46:41 - 15:02:27 |
| 會議時間 |
2026-05-12T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第5會期第9次會議（事由：一、討論事項：本院台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「醫療法第十二條、第一百零二條及第一百零二條之一條文修正草案」，請審議案；本院委員蘇清泉等28人擬具「醫療法第十二條條文修正草案」，請審議案；本院委員羅廷瑋等17人擬具「醫療法第十二條及第一百零二條條文修正草案」，請審議案等2案。二、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。三、5月8日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。） |
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蔥偉好好 院長好 主委好這個因為上次的話上次的話有跟院長在經濟委員會質詢說許願就我們希望把這個資訊跟雲服務等等這樣的東西的系統採購入法那上次我也有質詢過這個陳主委那我想在採購法這個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
25.816 |
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因為在我們之前包含像公共工程委員會我們在113年2月也揭露大概有14項的這個資訊服務系統的一個採購的類型那我這邊大概列出了幾項包含了我們整個的需求的定義啦我們的驗收的一些的標準那甚至我們一些不定底價然後呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
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用一些最優歸的一個方式來進行所以這個會造成我們在一些的需求上的不清楚低價的得標然後呢比如說廠商做不完驗收沒辦法過那上限出問題那種種廠商沒有利潤就劣幣驅逐良幣所以我想這個東西呢在過去的時候葉澤良在擔任公共成為的副主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
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他那時候想要修這個採購法但是呢我們那時候發現好像阻力很大那就提出了政府資訊服務採購作業指引跟資訊的雲端服務的採購的契約的範本那其實這兩本寫得很好比如說像你現在看到的這個採購法的資訊服務的話他從預算規劃需求規格 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
107.661 |
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126.326 |
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廠商的供應鏈、旅約的查核一直到專業驗收跟爭議的處理其實在那個指引有甚至我們在因應比較新時代的雲服務、AI服務的話這一個東西我們在政府將來採購雲端或者是AI這些服務的時候 |
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130.049 |
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149.342 |
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那怎麼讓他是可控制、可持續、可退出跟可問責其實這些都有規範但是我們在資訊業界還是希望他能夠入法因為這個東西連行政命令都不是那指引如果不遵守我們還是會有剛剛我講的這些我們政府系統的問題所以 |
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151.621 |
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179.854 |
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我只要求說這個陳主委可以把我這個列入考慮那如果需要跟我們討論因為上次副主委也說我們可以貢獻這個專業然後跟各位一起來討論這樣的東西好 謝謝委員這個雖然有一些指引跟評選辦法的確是母法裡面沒有相關的設計那政府採購法目前我們在聽取各界意見當中預計年底希望能夠整合意見來 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
181.072 |
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181.352 |
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接下來我們請蘇巴部林部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
217.622 |
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235.973 |
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部長好 委員好上次我在質詢的時候其實我想要問的其實是幫我們軟體產業請命其實從這些軟體的預算我們這個一直都是比硬體的預算要低很多那我為什麼上次會談到AI的軟體發展的戰略下一張 |
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239.366 |
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267.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
上次問主委這個問題主要是說我們速發部主管的是我們的軟體產業資訊服務產業所以我們身為這邊的大家長我當然當時的希望是說部長可以對這些資訊的現況有一點瞭解包含比如說我們在主計出663的這些的家數員工數他的產值以及比如說我們在上市上櫃這些東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
268.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
288.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
甚至我們這些裡頭的資訊服務廠商的類型那原因很簡單因為我們整個軟體產業都是靠速發部希望能夠訂出好的軟體的戰略然後引領大家一起走那我今天也不要求部長給我這個要考試的不用了我們就直接把它列出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
290.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
310.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
像我自己的話我們大概就是說整個資訊服務產業大概就是差不多有1.7萬家員工數大概12.7萬去年的產值大概是6600多億在SARS那個時候可能就是再好一點可能是到8000多億了所以大概是在這裡流泡但是我們的上市商櫃公司大概差不多是48到50 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
312.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
336.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
因為現在在新規要排著上去我們在上市上多公司的產值大概是1500億到1800億其實佔我們整體的比重很低大概差不多0.4% 它不到1%0.4%到0.8%所以我們就一直希望說在速發部帶領的這些軟體產業AI是一個新的機會所以我們要怎麼樣去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
337.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
348.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
那這個時候我也去翻了因為從以前部長上任我們就來看嘛因為我們整個都要看這件事那部長講了很多再幫我下一個都按出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
351.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
365.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
就是說部長討論的這個是project到product軟硬整合現在我的問題就是我從這個行業畢業從博士班畢業到現在27年其實我從27年前 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
368.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
384.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
就知道要這樣子做經濟部那時候也談出說我們軟體產業不要做專案要做軟體產品服務但很難軟硬整合我也做過很多硬帶軟 軟帶硬然後你硬體廠商出口軟體怎麼幫他加值等等 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
386.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
412.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
現在又聽到這樣子的口號我比較好奇的是說部長有什麼樣子的新的做法可以說以前我們做不到的現在可以做得比較好這樣子事實上就是如同剛剛委員跟工程會所講的就是說我們現在的軟體採購政府之前的軟體採購就是說政府很喜歡叫廠商去改東改西的明明一套軟體它已經是都做好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
412.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
438.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
好像那個政府的習慣就是會叫廠商說改這裡改那裡好像公務員覺得說不叫廠商改什麼就好像是有虧職守所以我們現在就是在跟工程會合作我們會去還有那個軟體工會我們修改軟體採購契約的範本那也如同剛才委員所講的包含這個雲端的產品等等那以前我們的這些軟體採購的各種契約範本都是以project的概念 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
438.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
461.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
去做的所以很多的那個都是用什麼驗收怎麼樣好那我們現在就是先想辦法就是說從軟體採購契約範本這個地方來修改那我們已經跟那個軟體公會大概已經討論了半年多那我們現在很快的應該就會有新的軟體採購契約範本那就希望是轉向這種產品採購方向那有了這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
465.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
482.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
企業範本以外那另外我們也鼓勵那個各家廠商盡量把他們的產品上到我們共同公共企業裡面這樣子的話就是由我們政府做起就是示範就是說我們在買軟體的時候我們應該多買product不要去開project可是我覺得這個是 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
484.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
507.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
理想很崇高但現實真的很骨感因為我們很多資訊服務系統還是以project為主因為產品真的不好做它也不見得馬上能夠獲利所以一般像我們以前做軟體公司一定都是project再來養產品所以這是一個必經的過程這個也希望部長能夠理解整個我今天是貢獻我的 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
509.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
524.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
二十幾年來在做這些不同產業的數位轉型跟AI的經驗如果就我的角度來看的話台灣整個AI的軟體的發展的戰略第一個我覺得是先要有個定位那這個定位我覺得是比較是屬於 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
526.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
549.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
可信賴的AI的一個產品的定位當然最終我們檢驗它一定是可以輸出可以被驗證我們並不是要去做POC我們是要做一個Service那我為什麼會這樣子來看就是說整個台灣最劇烈的優勢一定是在我們的垂直領域 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
550.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
561.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
尤其我們有強大的製造的模號我們的臨床的醫療全民健保在這一塊農業的話基本上是localization就是不可取代性因為他就有區域性的這些看保 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
562.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
580.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
那從垂直領域的優勢去發展我們垂直領域的AI的產品這是上次我想要跟你討論的那當我們要支撐這個垂直領域的AI產品發展的時候那我水平的AI也不是百分之百的水平 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
581.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
604.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
一定是為了支撐上面這個垂直領域的AI所要做的不管是在倫理、資安、檢驗甚至我的部署怎麼樣最有效率那這樣往下的時候我才會去算說那我這樣子我的資料的數據我的算力 對不對我的這樣子的一個整個這個基礎的建設我要花多少錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
606.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
628.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以我們的一切是為了垂直的領域的優勢的發展所以我想部長應該也算是認同非常認同因為就在前一陣子我們跟金管會還有台灣16家大型的金融機構包含中信金等等我們才發表了一個計畫就是台灣金融大圓模型這個就是在一個垂直領域裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
629.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
655.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
我覺得台灣的金融我個人的意見我認為是優勢沒有前面的製造跟醫療要搶我是覺得因為我們的資源有限你可以去考慮我為什麼這樣子講再往下我們看一下就是說當我們在定一個國家的戰略的時候基本上一定會去看我的競爭國我這邊沒有把日本擺在不是說我瞧不起他 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
656.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
677.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
可是他的戰略真的沒有韓國跟新加坡來得優秀韓國在未來這個未來AI實驗室的首席長何振宇他就去講我整個就是一個財團七棟國家的力量去走所以他的三部曲很清楚我透過26萬片加4萬片30萬片的GPU去訓練我的自己的主權的大語言的模型 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
678.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
693.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
再來我全力去發展推論的晶片再來我才把這些的算力資料這些分配給了不管是國家實驗室不管是分配給SK分給現代分給NAVR去做這些商業的用途 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
694.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
716.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
戰略清楚新加坡因為他人小也沒有什麼太多的domain know-how但他的法尊法規很強想辦法把全球人才吸引起來去做比較水平式的一個AI那我覺得台灣要勝出就一定是在垂直的領域所以我們怎麼樣子集全部的預算能量去支撐這個垂直領域的發展 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
718.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
734.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
這個是我認為我們在做國家戰略的時候可以勝出的一個戰略的關鍵那往下那我覺得如果按照我剛剛這樣子的想法那我們在製造一個AI速發部一定會覺得說這件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
735.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
755.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們到底要怎麼做 因為我們常常說話不做的時候會怕踩到經濟部嘛因為製造業裡頭不管是我們的紡織 我們的工具機 我們的扣件我們的這一些的水五金 自行車零組件其實製造有很多的次領域每一個次領域所需要的製造領域知識的AI這些都不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
756.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
777.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
那我們在做這件事情的時候就是說在資料分配場域可驗證的情況之下它是一個很好的發展的機會那下一個所以呢根據我過去這樣的經驗我覺得我們呢速發部要去跟經濟部配合經濟部可以去做這些產業的輔導不管是在製程、視覺、設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
779.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
802.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
甚至包含尤其我們最難的供應鏈這些的預估交期的管理那這一塊裡頭的話我們速發部應該帶領軟體的廠商去做他們最強的軍火庫那這個東西是不是一定要外銷我倒認為不一定他可能是幫我們台灣製造業去做攻城掠地的一個最佳化的武器但是他的武器 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
803.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
813.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
是來自於速發部你所領導的這些軟體跟支付的廠商來做這樣的事情那這樣子你的所有的您常常會講的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
814.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
841.947 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
算力、人才、資料、行銷、資金那我們就是集中往這個地方去做那我們不要跟經濟部各做各的因為院長也在這邊就是跟經濟部配合不然有時候你會怕說我做多了會踩線但是你就做軍火庫嘛然後他去做製造業的consultant的一個服務我覺得這樣子會對台灣的製造業的升級跟轉型是很好的一件事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
843.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
861.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
那下一個我想這邊都是一樣不管我們台灣的HIS的廠商那現在跟FIRE這些國際的標準對接那我們慢慢的就不要再做也不是不要再做啦就是說除了精準醫療視覺的這些辨識之外其實往在臨床醫療這裡頭的AI也這幾個 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
864.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
878.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
所以抒發部只要去定出一個方向甚至我認為下一張最弱的叫農業我常常在審農業的智慧化的AI運算我真的是看得頭有點痛到處都是AI跟國防部的AI也是差不多 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
879.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
904.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
然後你要問資料沒資料問模型沒模型問什麼要做什麼解決什麼問題都不知道我覺得速發部在這個地方應該要去扮演這些比較其他部會的system的architect系統的架構師幫他訂規格幫他訂資料幫他模型的規格然後怎麼去做驗收我覺得在你的這個速發部可以擔任這樣的角色然後把台灣的軟體產業帶進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
905.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
929.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
是非常同意那個委員的想法那我們現在速發部有一個資料匯流隱私強化技術的計畫就是要幫各個部會去匯整這些資料然後匯整之後就可以訓練各個領域垂直領域的AI模型再下一張最後一張就是再往下一點點再往下好 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
934.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
938.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
謝謝洪委員,謝謝卓院長,下一位請黃秀芳委員質詢 |
| transcript.gazette[0].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[0].start |
2026-05-12T14:46:41+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[0].end |
2026-05-12T14:46:42+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[0].text |
謝謝主席，有請卓院長跟工程會陳主委。 |
| transcript.gazette[0].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[1].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[1].start |
2026-05-12T14:46:42+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[1].end |
2026-05-12T14:46:43+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[1].text |
卓院長請備詢，還有工程會主委請備詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[1].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[2].speaker |
卓院長榮泰 |
| transcript.gazette[2].start |
2026-05-12T14:46:43+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[2].end |
2026-05-12T14:46:44+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[2].text |
洪委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[2].quality |
0.25 |
| transcript.gazette[3].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[3].start |
2026-05-12T14:46:43.509000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[3].end |
2026-05-12T14:46:44.590000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[3].text |
院長好、主委好。 |
| transcript.gazette[3].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[4].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[4].start |
2026-05-12T14:46:46.091000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[4].end |
2026-05-12T14:47:52.429000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[4].text |
因為上次跟部長在經濟委員會質詢的時候許願，我們希望把資訊跟雲服務等等這樣的系統採購入法，上次我也有質詢過陳主委，在採購法這一個地方，因為我們之前，包含像公共工程委員會，我們在113年2月也揭露大概有14項的資訊服務系統採購類型，我這邊大概列出幾項，包含整個需求的定義、驗收標準，甚至一些不定底價，用最優規的方式來進行，這個會造成我們在一些需求上的不清楚、低價得標，比如說廠商做不完、驗收沒辦法過、上線出問題等種種廠商沒有利潤，結果劣幣驅逐良幣。 |
| transcript.gazette[4].quality |
0.949 |
| transcript.gazette[5].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[5].start |
2026-05-12T14:47:54.610000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[5].end |
2026-05-12T14:49:10.162000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[5].text |
這部分在過去葉哲良擔任公共工程會副主委，他那時想要修採購法，但是我們那時候發現好像阻力很大，就提出政府資訊服務採購作業指引跟資訊雲端服務採購契約範本，其實這兩本寫得很好，像你現在看到採購法的資訊服務，它從預算與規劃、需求與規格、廠商與供應鏈、履約查核，一直到專業驗收跟爭議處理，其實在那個指引皆有；甚至我們在因應比較新時代的雲服務、AI服務，政府將來採購雲端或者是AI服務的時候，怎麼讓它是可控制、可持續、可退出跟可問責，這些其實都有規範，但資訊業界還是希望它能夠入法，因為這個東西連行政命令都不是，如果不遵守指引，還是會有剛剛我講的這些政府系統的問題。 |
| transcript.gazette[5].quality |
0.929 |
| transcript.gazette[6].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[6].start |
2026-05-12T14:49:10.162000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[6].end |
2026-05-12T14:49:24.166000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[6].text |
所以我只要求陳主委可以把我這個列入考慮，如果需要跟我們討論，因為上次副主委也說我們可以貢獻專業，跟各位一起來討論這樣的東西。 |
| transcript.gazette[6].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[7].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[7].start |
2026-05-12T14:49:26.287000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[7].end |
2026-05-12T14:49:27.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[7].text |
謝謝委員。 |
| transcript.gazette[7].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[8].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[8].start |
2026-05-12T14:49:27.308000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[8].end |
2026-05-12T14:49:40.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[8].text |
雖然有一些指引跟評選辦法，但的確在母法裡面沒有相關的設計，有關政府採購法，目前我們在聽取各界意見當中，預計年底希望能夠整合意見來預告，這當中我會請陳為祥副主委跟委員一併來商量…… |
| transcript.gazette[8].quality |
0.683 |
| transcript.gazette[9].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[9].start |
2026-05-12T14:49:40.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[9].end |
2026-05-12T14:49:41.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[9].text |
感謝，這是我們資訊業界二十幾年來的心聲。 |
| transcript.gazette[9].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[10].speaker |
陳主任委員金德 |
| transcript.gazette[10].start |
2026-05-12T14:49:41.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[10].end |
2026-05-12T14:49:42.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[10].text |
看用什麼方式來入法。 |
| transcript.gazette[10].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[11].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[11].start |
2026-05-12T14:49:42.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[11].end |
2026-05-12T14:49:43.854000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[11].text |
好，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[11].quality |
0 |
| transcript.gazette[12].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[12].start |
2026-05-12T14:49:42.072000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[12].end |
2026-05-12T14:49:42.352000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[12].text |
時間先暫停一下，主席，請陳主委回座，接下來請數發部林部長。 |
| transcript.gazette[12].quality |
0.32 |
| transcript.gazette[13].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[13].start |
2026-05-12T14:50:18.622000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[13].end |
2026-05-12T14:50:18.862000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[13].text |
部長好。 |
| transcript.gazette[13].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[14].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[14].start |
2026-05-12T14:50:19.463000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[14].end |
2026-05-12T14:50:19.723000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[14].text |
委員好。 |
| transcript.gazette[14].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[15].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[15].start |
2026-05-12T14:50:20.743000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[15].end |
2026-05-12T14:50:36.793000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[15].text |
上次我在質詢的時候，我想要問的其實是幫軟體產業請命，這些軟體的預算一直都是比硬體的預算要低很多，我為什麼上次會談到AI軟體發展的戰略？ |
| transcript.gazette[15].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[16].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[16].start |
2026-05-12T14:50:40.366000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[16].end |
2026-05-12T14:51:22.404000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[16].text |
上次問主委這個問題主要是數發部主管的是軟體產業、資訊服務產業，所以身為軟體產業的大家長，當然我當時希望部長可以對這些資訊的現況有一點了解，包含比如在主計處62、63的家數、員工數、產值，以及上市、上櫃等，甚至這裡頭資訊服務廠商的類型，原因很簡單，因為整個軟體產業都是靠數發部，希望能夠訂出好的軟體戰略，然後引領大家一起走。 |
| transcript.gazette[16].quality |
0.923 |
| transcript.gazette[17].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[17].start |
2026-05-12T14:51:23.445000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[17].end |
2026-05-12T14:51:29.691000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[17].text |
我今天也不要求部長考試，不用了，我們就直接把它列出來。 |
| transcript.gazette[17].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[18].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[18].start |
2026-05-12T14:51:31.305000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[18].end |
2026-05-12T14:51:47.070000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[18].text |
像我自己的話大概就是說，整個資訊服務產業差不多有1.7萬家，員工數大概12.7萬，去年產值大概是六千六百多億，在SARS那個時候可能再好一點，可能就是到八千多億，所以大概是在這裡頭跑。 |
| transcript.gazette[18].quality |
0.887 |
| transcript.gazette[19].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[19].start |
2026-05-12T14:51:48.070000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[19].end |
2026-05-12T14:52:17.075000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[19].text |
但是我們的上市上櫃公司大概差不多是48到50家，因為有些還在興櫃要排著上去，在上市上櫃公司的產值大概是1,500億到1,800億，其實占整體的比重很低，大概還不到1%，差不多0.4%到0.8%，所以我們就一直希望數發部帶領這些軟體產業，AI是一個新的機會，所以我們要怎麼樣去做？ |
| transcript.gazette[19].quality |
0.858 |
| transcript.gazette[20].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[20].start |
2026-05-12T14:52:19.298000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[20].end |
2026-05-12T14:52:37.770000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[20].text |
這個時候我也去翻了，因為從以前部長上任我們就在看，我們都在看這件事，部長講了很多，部長討論了project到product，對不對？是。 |
| transcript.gazette[20].quality |
0.885 |
| transcript.gazette[21].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[21].start |
2026-05-12T14:52:37.970000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[21].end |
2026-05-12T14:52:58.956000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[21].text |
軟硬整合，現在我的問題就是，我從這個產業畢業，從博士班畢業到現在27年，其實我從27年前就知道要這樣子做了，經濟部那時候也說軟體產業不要做專案，要做軟體產品服務，但是很難啊！ |
| transcript.gazette[21].quality |
0.947 |
| transcript.gazette[22].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[22].start |
2026-05-12T14:52:58.956000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[22].end |
2026-05-12T14:53:17.405000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[22].text |
軟硬整合我也做過很多，硬帶軟、軟帶硬，然後硬體廠商出口，軟體怎麼幫它加值等等，現在又聽到這樣的口號，我比較好奇的是，部長有什麼樣新的做法可以是以前我們做不到的，現在可以做得比較好？ |
| transcript.gazette[22].quality |
0.975 |
| transcript.gazette[23].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[23].start |
2026-05-12T14:53:18.825000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[23].end |
2026-05-12T14:54:21.358000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[23].text |
事實上就是如同剛剛委員跟工程會所講的，我們現在的軟體採購……政府之前的軟體採購，政府很喜歡叫廠商改東改西，明明一套軟體都已經做好了，好像政府的習慣就是會叫廠商改這裡、改那裡，公務員覺得不叫廠商改什麼就好像是有虧職守，所以我們現在就是在跟工程會還有軟體公會合作，我們修改軟體採購契約範本，也如同剛才委員所講的，包含雲端產品等等，以前這些軟體採購的各種契約範本都是以project的概念去做，所以很多都是用驗收的方式，我們現在先想辦法從軟體採購契約範本這個地方來修改，我們跟軟體公會大概已經討論了半年多，現在應該很快就會有新的軟體採購契約範本，那就是希望轉向這種產品採購方向。 |
| transcript.gazette[23].quality |
0.951 |
| transcript.gazette[24].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[24].start |
2026-05-12T14:54:22.119000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[24].end |
2026-05-12T14:54:42.575000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[24].text |
有了契約範本以外，另外我們也鼓勵各家廠商儘量把他們的產品上到我們共同供應契約裡面，這樣的話就是由政府做起，就是示範我們在買軟體的時候應該都買product，不要去開project。 |
| transcript.gazette[24].quality |
0.906 |
| transcript.gazette[25].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[25].start |
2026-05-12T14:54:42.635000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[25].end |
2026-05-12T14:55:04.369000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[25].text |
好，可是我覺得這個是理想很崇高，但是現實真的很骨感，因為我們很多資訊服務系統還是以project為主，因為產品真的不好做，也不見得馬上能夠獲利，所以一般像我們以前做軟體公司一定都是先有project，再來養產品，所以這是一個必經的過程，也希望部長能夠理解。 |
| transcript.gazette[25].quality |
0.966 |
| transcript.gazette[26].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[26].start |
2026-05-12T14:55:07.691000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[26].end |
2026-05-12T14:55:42.216000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[26].text |
我今天是貢獻我二十幾年來在做這些不同產業的數位轉型跟AI的經驗，就我的角度來看，臺灣整個AI軟體發展戰略，第一個，我覺得是先要有個定位，這個定位我覺得比較是屬於可信賴的AI產品定位，當然最終我們檢驗它一定是可以輸出、可以被驗證，我們並不是要去做POC，我們是要做一個product、做service。是。好。 |
| transcript.gazette[26].quality |
0.922 |
| transcript.gazette[27].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[27].start |
2026-05-12T14:55:43.097000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[27].end |
2026-05-12T14:55:44.238000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[27].text |
再往下，我為什麼會這樣來看？ |
| transcript.gazette[27].quality |
0.75 |
| transcript.gazette[28].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[28].start |
2026-05-12T14:55:45.739000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[28].end |
2026-05-12T14:56:02.517000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[28].text |
整個臺灣最具有的優勢一定是在我們的垂直領域，尤其我們有強大的製造的know-how，我們的臨床醫療、全民健保，在這一塊，農業的話基本上是localization，就是不可取代性，因為有區域性的這些干擾。 |
| transcript.gazette[28].quality |
0.88 |
| transcript.gazette[29].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[29].start |
2026-05-12T14:56:04.444000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[29].end |
2026-05-12T14:56:11.268000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[29].text |
從垂直領域的優勢去發展我們垂直領域的AI產品，這是上次我想要跟你討論的。 |
| transcript.gazette[29].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[30].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[30].start |
2026-05-12T14:56:13.369000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[30].end |
2026-05-12T14:56:52.461000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[30].text |
當我們要支撐這個垂直領域的AI產品發展的時候，那麼水平的AI也不是百分之百的水平，一定是為了支撐上面這個垂直領域的AI所要做的，不管是在倫理、資安、檢驗，甚至怎麼樣部署最有效率，往下才會去算說這樣的資料數據、算力以及整個基礎建設要花多少錢，所以這一切是為了垂直領域的優勢發展，我想部長應該也算是認同。 |
| transcript.gazette[30].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[31].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[31].start |
2026-05-12T14:56:53.821000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[31].end |
2026-05-12T14:57:09.188000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[31].text |
是，非常認同，因為就在前一陣子，我們跟金管會還有臺灣16家大型的金融機構，包含中信金等等，我們才發表了一個計畫，就是臺灣金融大語言模型，這就在一個垂直領域裡面。 |
| transcript.gazette[31].quality |
0.957 |
| transcript.gazette[32].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[32].start |
2026-05-12T14:57:10.268000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[32].end |
2026-05-12T14:57:22.170000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[32].text |
好，我覺得臺灣的金融，我個人的意見，我認為優勢沒有前面的製造跟醫療來得強，我是覺得因為我們的資源有限，你可以去考慮。是。 |
| transcript.gazette[32].quality |
0.906 |
| transcript.gazette[33].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[33].start |
2026-05-12T14:57:22.170000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[33].end |
2026-05-12T14:57:24.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[33].text |
我為什麼這樣講？ |
| transcript.gazette[33].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[34].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[34].start |
2026-05-12T14:57:24.531000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[34].end |
2026-05-12T14:57:40.331000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[34].text |
再往下，當我們在訂定一個國家的戰略時，一定會去看我們的競爭國，我這邊沒有把日本擺上來，不是我瞧不起它，而是它的戰略真的沒有韓國跟新加坡來得優秀。 |
| transcript.gazette[34].quality |
0.894 |
| transcript.gazette[35].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[35].start |
2026-05-12T14:57:41.271000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[35].end |
2026-05-12T14:58:15.764000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[35].text |
韓國的AI未來計劃首席河正宇，他就講了，他們整個就是以財團驅動，並用國家的力量去走，所以他的三部曲很清楚，透過26萬片加4萬片共30萬片的GPU去訓練自己的主權的大語言模型；再來，全力去發展推論的晶片，再來才把這些算力資料分配給不管是國家實驗室、分配給SK、分給現代、分給Naver去做這些商業用途，戰略清楚。 |
| transcript.gazette[35].quality |
0.854 |
| transcript.gazette[36].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[36].start |
2026-05-12T14:58:16.745000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[36].end |
2026-05-12T14:58:26.891000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[36].text |
新加坡因為它的人少，也沒有什麼太多的domain know-how，但它的法遵、法規很強，想辦法把全球人才吸引起來，去做比較水平式的AI。 |
| transcript.gazette[36].quality |
0.918 |
| transcript.gazette[37].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[37].start |
2026-05-12T14:58:27.712000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[37].end |
2026-05-12T14:58:44.347000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[37].text |
我覺得臺灣要勝出，就一定是在垂直的領域，所以我們怎麼樣集全部的預算、能量去支撐這個垂直領域的發展，這是我認為我們在做國家戰略的時候可以勝出的一個戰略關鍵。 |
| transcript.gazette[37].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[38].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[38].start |
2026-05-12T14:58:44.547000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[38].end |
2026-05-12T14:59:26.048000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[38].text |
往下，如果按照我剛剛這樣的想法，我們在製造業的AI，數發部一定會覺得這件事情我們到底要怎麼做，因為數發部有時候會怕踩到經濟部嘛，在製造業裡頭，不管是我們的紡織、工具機、扣件、水五金、自行車零組件等等，其實製造業有很多的次領域，每一個次領域所需要的製造領域知識的AI，這些都不同，我們在做這件事情的時候，如果在資料分配場域可驗證的情況之下，它是一個很好的發展機會。 |
| transcript.gazette[38].quality |
0.921 |
| transcript.gazette[39].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[39].start |
2026-05-12T14:59:28.530000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[39].end |
2026-05-12T14:59:45.310000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[39].text |
根據我過去這樣的經驗，我覺得數發部要去跟經濟部配合，經濟部可以去做產業輔導，不管是在製程、視覺、設備，甚至包含最難的供應鏈，這些預估交期的管理。 |
| transcript.gazette[39].quality |
0.984 |
| transcript.gazette[40].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[40].start |
2026-05-12T14:59:46.131000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[40].end |
2026-05-12T14:59:55.676000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[40].text |
在這一塊裡面，數發部應該帶領軟體的廠商去做他們最強的軍火庫，這個東西是不是一定要外銷？ |
| transcript.gazette[40].quality |
0.925 |
| transcript.gazette[41].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[41].start |
2026-05-12T14:59:55.676000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[41].end |
2026-05-12T15:00:10.244000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[41].text |
我倒認為不一定，他可能是幫我們臺灣製造業去做攻城掠地的最佳武器，但是他的武器是來自於數發部所領導的這些軟體跟資服的廠商來做這樣的事情。 |
| transcript.gazette[41].quality |
0.953 |
| transcript.gazette[42].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[42].start |
2026-05-12T15:00:11.445000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[42].end |
2026-05-12T15:00:22.834000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[42].text |
如同你常常會講的算力、人才、資料、行銷、資金，我們就是集中往這個地方去做。 |
| transcript.gazette[42].quality |
0.935 |
| transcript.gazette[43].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[43].start |
2026-05-12T15:00:23.614000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[43].end |
2026-05-12T15:00:42.927000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[43].text |
那你們不要跟經濟部各做各的，院長也在這邊，就是跟經濟部配合，不然有時候你會怕做多了又踩線，但是你就做軍火庫嘛，然後他去做製造業的consultant服務，我覺得這樣子對臺灣製造業的升級跟轉型是很好的一件事情。 |
| transcript.gazette[43].quality |
0.979 |
| transcript.gazette[44].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[44].start |
2026-05-12T15:00:44.990000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[44].end |
2026-05-12T15:01:07.156000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[44].text |
下一個，我想這邊都是一樣，我們臺灣的HIS廠商現在要跟FHIR這些國際標準對接，我們慢慢的就不要再做……也不是不要再做啦，就是除了精準醫療、視覺辨識這些之外，其實在臨床醫療裡頭的AI也就這幾個，所以數發部只要去訂出一個方向。 |
| transcript.gazette[44].quality |
0.931 |
| transcript.gazette[45].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[45].start |
2026-05-12T15:01:07.776000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[45].end |
2026-05-12T15:01:15.899000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[45].text |
甚至我認為最弱的叫農業，我常常在審農業的智慧化AI預算，我真的是看得頭有點痛！ |
| transcript.gazette[45].quality |
0.972 |
| transcript.gazette[46].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[46].start |
2026-05-12T15:01:16.879000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[46].end |
2026-05-12T15:01:45.379000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[46].text |
到處都是AI，跟國防部的AI也是差不多，然後問資料沒資料、問模型沒模型，問要做什麼、解決什麼問題都不知道，我覺得數發部在這個地方應該要去扮演其他部會的system architect（系統架構師），幫他訂規格、幫他訂資料、幫他訂模型的規格，然後怎麼去做驗收，我覺得數發部可以擔任這樣的角色，然後把臺灣的軟體產業帶進來。 |
| transcript.gazette[46].quality |
0.979 |
| transcript.gazette[47].speaker |
林部長宜敬 |
| transcript.gazette[47].start |
2026-05-12T15:01:46.820000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[47].end |
2026-05-12T15:02:01.830000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[47].text |
是，非常同意委員的想法，現在數發部有一個資料匯流與隱私強化計畫，就是要幫各個部會彙整這些資料，彙整之後就可以訓練各個領域、垂直領域的AI模型。 |
| transcript.gazette[47].quality |
0.938 |
| transcript.gazette[48].speaker |
洪委員毓祥 |
| transcript.gazette[48].start |
2026-05-12T15:02:01.830000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].guessed |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[48].end |
2026-05-12T15:02:15.930000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[48].text |
水平領域我就不講了，這部分後續我們可以再討論，當軟體產業發展是更好的模式，謝謝。 |
| transcript.gazette[48].quality |
0.083 |
| transcript.gazette[49].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[49].start |
2026-05-12T15:02:15.930000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[49].end |
2026-05-12T15:02:17.874000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[49].text |
謝謝洪委員、謝謝卓院長。 |
| transcript.gazette[49].quality |
1 |
| transcript.gazette[50].speaker |
主席 |
| transcript.gazette[50].start |
2026-05-12T15:02:17.874000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].guessed |
|
| transcript.gazette[50].end |
2026-05-12T15:02:19.598000+08:00 |
| transcript.gazette[50].text |
下一位請黃秀芳委員質詢。 |
| transcript.gazette[50].quality |
1 |