| IVOD_ID |
16927 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16927 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-36-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
36 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
司法及法制委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-08T08:36:40+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-08T12:33:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
03:56:20 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8d241381c4f8c7fc523447af23cba8b88652bd9e5393f67a2eb94a68550f7b5b466eb3ad5f7ce9fe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。 【10月8日及9日兩天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:36:40 - 12:33:00 |
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| transcript.whisperx[0].start |
1456.881 |
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報告委員會初期委員11人已足法定人數請準兩位委員還有部長還有在座的各位長官們大家好那麼今天是我們市委會第一次這個會期第一次開會那由我擔任召委那也很感謝之前在過去的三個會期裡面吳宗憲委員都很 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1484.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1507.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].text |
认真负责的然后扮演好做召委的这样的一个角色我也希望能够向五委员学习那么另外要再谢谢黄国昌黄委员我希望就是在未来的这个会期里面呢也能够给我多多的这个指导好那么今天的会议的开始呢对不起还有另外两位委员黄委员还有 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1508.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1522.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].text |
陳委員不好意思剛剛沒有特別注意到謝謝那麼今天在第四會議裡面呢有四位委員到場然後待會我們就會先進行部長的業務報告那麼另外呢我這邊有一點點的 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1525.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1535.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].text |
小小的規則的宣布我希望在未來的會期裡面我們原則上每個委員的發言時間都還是可以遵守我們這個會議的規則也不超過十分鐘為限 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1539.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1564.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
還是可以等待委員把一個整個問題問完那這樣的話不會影響到後續委員的質詢的時間那另外我也有另外一個小要求就是希望未來的各個部會在做業務報告或是有提供相關資料的時候務必在會議的開會的前一天就能夠提供相關的業務報告這樣的話可以讓我們的所有的委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1565.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1586.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].text |
都能夠及時的閱讀而不是像過去常常都是可能會議當天我們才收到業務報告所以這部分的話還請各個部會機關都能夠遵守這樣的規定以及要求好那我們就現在開始今天的會議那首先先進行報告事項先讀上次的會議議事錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1589.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1617.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
立法院第十一屆第四會期司法及法治委員會第一次全體委員會議議事錄時間中華民國一百一十四年十月一日星期三上午九十三分至九十十四分地點本院紅樓三零二會議室出席委員盧志強委員等十二人主席莊委員瑞雄報告事項一本院第十一屆第四會期各委員會召集委員選舉時間及地點夜經本院第十一屆第四會期第一次會議決定照案通過再案 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1618.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1634.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
二 宣讀本會及本會召集委員選舉人名冊選舉事項選舉第十一屆第四會及本會召集委員主席宣告推選翁委員小林莊委員瑞雄為立法院第十一屆第四會及司法及法治委員會召集委員宣讀完畢好 請問各位上次的會議議事錄有沒有錯誤或遺漏 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1643.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1664.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
沒有的話那就請議事錄確定沒有錯誤或遺漏議事錄就確定接下來我剛剛因為已經介紹了在場的委員接著我就介紹今天列席官員首先是防務部正部長謝謝黃某信常務次長請坐 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1672.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1696.421 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
另外就是法務部調查局跟廉政署的主管今天請假所以法務部調查局就由副局長吳富梅來代理 謝謝然後法務部行政執行署的署長廟卓然 謝謝那麼法務部廉政署的副署長林漢強 謝謝那麼法務部剿政署署長林憲明請坐 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1702.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1726.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
那其餘未及介紹的列席代表那麼就請參院名單不再逐一的介紹並且列入公報記錄好的那麼這次的會議是排定週三跟週四兩天一次會那麼本日的議程是邀請防務部部長率所屬單位為主管列席那報告業務概況以及立法計畫並被質詢好的那麼現在就先請鄭部長來進行業務報告時間是五分鐘謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1734.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1750.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
主席 各位委員 各位女士先生 各位媒體先進 大家早安 大家好今天率法務部團隊副委員會進行業務報告僅對大院委員先進對本部的指導支持是最崇高的一個敬意跟謝意 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1752.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1766.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
本部的一個重要的施政亮點第一 落實武打其恩政策強化社會安全本部是依據總統國家希望工程治國藍圖遵循行政院施政方針及行動專訓施政連根據落實武打其恩政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1768.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1786.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
再就執行綠能掃黑速攤策略建構防範綠能犯罪的機制強力掃蕩妨礙綠能產業的犯罪推動新世代反毒策略行動綱領執行第十二波的案具企圖專案及0917查緝私用大碼黑素專案有效檢數 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1787.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1810.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
妨礙毒品成癮復歸社會的因子而落實打炸行動綱領持續善用打炸司法強化打炸能量結合打炸國家隊共識協力全民攜手防炸那台高檢推動了可疑贓戶疫情中心的一個機制那成功攔阻了警視贓戶金額達七億三千餘萬元填補被害人的損害 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1812.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
1826.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
強化富有兒少守護及防治家庭暴力網絡來促請依法妥為強制處分加強應用附條件命令等規定研修資控防治法加強打擊資控及資務擴 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
1830.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
1858.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
年能治理接力國際共足透明台灣公益階幣保護法於2014年7月22日正式施行本部積極展開籌備工作研理施行細則草案辦理分區座談會打造勇於階幣安心有保障的階幣友善文化另外在持續推動聯合國反貪污公約自主審查機制預計在今年底完成第三次的國家報告結果全球反貪污趨勢以國際化 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
1860.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
1876.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
法則再就是柔性司法這部分我們推動柔性的堅韌預制完善矯正廚藝精進專業矯正的廚藝強化社會安全法針對詐欺犯罪強化輔導法治教育及四詐防詐課程 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
1878.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
1904.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
協助收人脫離詐騙並成功新生另外在推動矯正機關科技安全網建置計畫建構堅韌安全的智慧監獄的雛形另外在提升矯正同仁的待遇今年7月1日起核發深入圍牢性的勤務津貼慰勞同仁辛勞並改善人力困境力挺司法最前線 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
1907.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
1919.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
完善司法保護量能建構柔性的司法推動溫暖有感的柔性司法政策設置52處的新生保護服務據點成立醫療關懷聯盟提供經濟弱勢家庭掛號減免等措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
1921.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
1940.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
督導環保協會結合83名醫療照護專業人員並以27個地方機構合作提供長期的一個照顧另外在行政執行這部分行政執行署推動2014年善用AI科技提升執行效能實施計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
1942.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
1957.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
運用AI模型導入AI數位轉型簡化作業流程那另外推動加強自欠大副的執行專案辦理檢查機關阻拖執行偏價的案件以提升犯罪被害人未來受償的可能性 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
1958.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
1977.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
另外再調製配合行政院強化涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員特殊查核新修正施行涉及國家安全或重大利益公務人員特殊查核的辦法來辦理特殊查核防止境外敵對勢力的滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
1979.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
1993.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
另外司法互助在本國馬薩爾群島共和國在今年5月14號簽署刑事司法互助條約令以聖路西亞德國簽署司法互助的一個協議有助於提升刑事司法的一個成效 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
1995.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2013.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
另外在人權法制法律事務站也完成兩公約第四次國家報告的中文版的一個發表另外研修民法離婚法制父母承受權的規定送請大院審議中那13年相正式調解結案數量逾14萬件調解成立比喻序創新高達83.2%紓解大量送援 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2016.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2034.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
本部將跟續推動科技創新的法務革新為強化社會安全網絡制度韌性而努力堅定守護司法公平正義成為人民心中正義最後一道防線營造幸福安居的家園敬請各位委員持續督促與指教謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2040.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2069.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
好 謝謝那麼現在報告完畢所以相關書面內容就請各位參閱並且列入公報記錄那麼接下來我們就開始進行詢答那本會委員詢答時間是維持8分鐘必要時的延長2分鐘那非本會委員的詢答時間則為5分鐘並不再延長那上午10點30分截止發言登記那麼接下來就請登記第一位黃國昌委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2079.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2087.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
謝謝翁召偉 麻煩有請法務部部長委員長 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2089.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2116.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
不知道 拜讀法務部這次的業務報告發現跟上次的業務報告多有重疊之處當然我可以理解業務是有延續性的所以裡面有非常多的段落有非常多的文字可以是上一次的業務報告更新數字稍微改寫一下可以理解這種事情我上次質詢過了我比較關心的事情是什麼我比較關心的事情是第一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2117.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2145.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
五打七安五打七安的效果五打七安的效果我們等一下用進一步具體的例子來加以檢驗但我比較關心的事情是什麼我比較關心的事情是司法檢調本來是應該要打擊犯罪追訴犯罪的單位怎麼會變成國家機器想要打壓人民表達意見的工具我為什麼這樣講我們先看第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2146.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2175.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
花蓮發生這麼大的災情全國人民都很哀痛非常多的鏟子超人煮飯超人湧入花蓮光復大家都在幫忙結果我們的內政部部長劉世芳啊在災害防救中心的時候啊呵呵呵有網友啊提出來質疑質疑了以後啊災防中心說要含送法辦啊告網友來請教一下部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2176.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2180.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
目前在災害防救法裡面有刑事處罰的規定是哪一條不熟這樣要含送法辦網友啊這個是一個錯假訊息那我想劉部長已經對外先停一下不好意思請你針對問題回答災害防救法有刑事處罰規定的是哪一個條文 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2205.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2233.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
災害防救法的話那個是內政部主管的一個法規是有刑事處罰規定的是哪一個條文這個93條53條來53條構成要見念給大家聽一下那我想這個法條就有了那不需要我在這邊來先聽一下我請你回答你不願意回答你說法條就有了很傲慢嘛自己去念法條不需要請你回答沒關係啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2235.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2257.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
部長很大 不願意回答那我就帶各位所有關心這個議題的公民朋友來看散播有關災害的謠言或不實資訊足聲損害於公眾或搭人者處三年以下有期徒刑我為什麼要問這件事情啊今天如果是有一些莫名其妙的人要濫訴 要告發 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2259.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2285.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
不要說沒有事實證據啊連法條構成要件都搞不清楚自己就要去秀下線沒有人可以阻止他但問題是什麼這是內政部要寒送欸這是國家機器發動欸國家機器發動沒有一定的犯罪協議沒有一定的事實證據的基礎這樣搞想要造成的就是寒蟬效應嘛不准質疑劉四方 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2287.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2306.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
不准問是不是他喝喝喝否則怎麼樣含醋讓你跑地檢署最後是不起訴處分又如何浪費你的勞力時間費用來散播有關災害的謠言或不實訊息來請教一下部長這個謠言或不實訊息要怎麼解釋 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2308.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2335.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
這部分散播跟謠言不實的一個訊息我想就個案多一個認定嘛我現在沒有在講個案認定現在我在講法律構成要件的抽象解釋謠言或不實訊息怎麼解釋一定要是有一個惡意嘛拜託謠言或不實訊息怎麼解釋一定要有惡意你又講到主觀要件去了這樣在念刑法分責的人聽到你這樣回答會笑你啦什麼叫做謠言或不實訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2337.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2358.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這個裡面這個不是有講的嗎 這搖飲就是假的 而且是二人一碗好 就是假的 說得非常的好 來來 呵呵呵 是不是劉世芳在笑的這個我不清楚這個你不清楚 沒有關係我現在就直接跟你講 第一個范雲直接就認證 呵呵呵 就是劉世芳 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2359.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2378.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
范雲認證了呵呵呵就是劉世芳這哪裡有不死啊我看了整個新聞以後我覺得整個莫名其妙網友質疑是劉世芳如果不是劉世芳劉世芳要去告人家我覺得天經地義但問題是什麼呵呵呵就是他然後內政部呵呵呵就是劉世芳內政部還要含唆網友 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2383.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2407.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
國家機器動起來了 很厲害喔法務部部長在這邊幫忙護航我沒有護航來 我們再往下看過去六年高檢署花了多少錢在科技監控過去六年花了多少錢這個你不是寫說什麼四億嗎對 請你回答問題啦不要擺出一副那種我什麼都不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2408.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2429.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
你不要問我你自己不是都整理出來了如果是這樣子的話我們站在這邊質詢你要幹嘛這麼傲慢六年花了四億花了四億來我們來看一下成效是什麼使用中的37個維修中的68個維修的比使用的還要高 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2431.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2443.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
維修的比使用還要高爛到爆表這怎麼評選的 誰要負責來 我先問一下這個電子監控設備都是由哪一個廠商得標這個是由遠傳來的遠傳負責電訊端我講的是設備端現在我在講的是設備爛嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2458.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2486.494 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
全部都限制型招標啊都只有一家廠商啊沒有這麼困難啊所以法務部不知道法務部不是很清楚 是嗎都是由哪一家廠商得標不知道 不清楚高檢署的事 不關法務部的事進一步帶你看特異的限制型標案 獨厚特定廠商啊利利科技啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2488.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2514.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
莉莉科技啊莉莉集團是哪一個政黨哪一個派系的金主啊網友Google自己就知道不用我在這邊講但我覺得很奇怪啊全部都是限制型標案全部只有他那一家一做再做每年都給他做得再爛都沒有關係啊做得再爛都沒有關係啊維修中的比使用中的還多 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2516.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2536.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
現在是納稅人的錢 不是錢喔再爛的東西 只要關係好只要關係好我大條阿卡捏 我金主捏限制性標案當然給我做啊再爛都要給我做啊是這樣嗎部長 這件事情要不要檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2537.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2564.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
還是這是不關法務部的事 請高檢署回答我還說什麼那個科技監控的設備有一些的需要的 在有些有故障的我相信這個科技監控的設備就經過我這樣講不是喔 不是有一些來來來 看一下維修中的是68 使用中的是37耶這個數字有錯嗎 你們有更新嗎數字中的245件啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2567.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2590.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
實施中的啊所以這個委員你的數據根本就是有誤嘛這個數據我跟你講啊是放在你們科技監控中心回來給我的這種數字我不會捏造啦現在實施中的就245個啊 非常好你現在齁對 好你現在可以回答數字非常的好我就在等你這個答案現在維修中的有多少使用中的你知道嘛現在維修中的有多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2598.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2626.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
還是你只知道使用中的 維修中的我不知道選擇性的回答問題我就在等你這個答案啦你現在知道使用中的有多少嗎請問維修中的有多少知不知道 不知道沒有啦 維修中的壞掉了 不能用啦現在在維修啦 在修理啦有幾個 不知道不堪用的有多少 知不知道還是不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2627.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2652.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
所以你只抓一個數字嘛現在我們有兩百多件在用啊好棒棒啊多少維修多少不堪用I don't care因為不是我出的錢啊是納稅人出的錢我向來問問題啊我一定追究到底所以來看一下我從九月連續發了12345678八封函給高檢署 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2657.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2682.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
我發了八封喊給高檢署最新維修有多少不堪用的有多少不堪用的有沒有跟廠商求償完全不回應完全不回應時間先暫停召委請問可以這樣嗎我們立委我發函給高檢署我發了八次喊 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2683.664 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2703.121 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
裝沒有看到還是問題太尖銳了不敢回答回答出來了以後丟人現眼趙偉不好意思現在我再請問趙偉沒有請你回答是這個部分的話應該請法務部要儘速要提供相關的資料那個這部分我們在整理數據我們再跟做提出書面來我再講一次9月24號第一次發函9月25號沒來10月1號10月2號10月3號10月7號 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2711.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2739.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
法務部的國會聯絡人都跟我講高檢署沒有把東西送來法務部國會聯絡人很負責很認真有的時候他很無辜辦公室的同仁都很體諒他他很辛苦他也很無奈人家東西沒有送來我就沒數字問題是什麼6年破4億的標案爛成這個樣子壞了多少維修多少還是每一次來立法院要錢我要科技監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2741.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2767.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
我要打詐很重要不給我錢就是反打詐不給我錢就是包庇犯罪納稅人更關心的是你們錢砸下去了以後變成什麼樣子變成什麼樣子主席站起來了我遵照主席一開始的才是來 請主席才是請他才是一個時間對 是不是可以請法務部今天我不是發一次函發兩次函 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2768.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2793.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
我總共發了六次函去要東西在哪裡是不是可以請召委採視一個時間需要多久需要多久因為這只是個數字從今天開始算一個禮拜好 一個禮拜順便書面回覆為什麼我發六次函都不回答順便在書面裡面交代為什麼我發六次函都不回答可以這個樣子喔傲慢 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2797.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2808.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
那就請那個鄭部長一個星期之後這個要將書面然後送到黃委員的辦公室那我們這邊也列入記錄好 謝謝好 接下來我們就請陳佩瑜委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2827.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2830.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
好 謝謝主席 那有請矯正署署長林署長 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2845.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2861.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
委員好好署長早安我今天等一下要提出的問題其實都不是短時間可以解決的所以請署長放心我們一起努力好不好但是我還是想要針對我們在矯正署狹下其所矯正學校跟關護所關於兒少的權益提出問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2861.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2881.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
那我在上一個會期呢持續也在司法法制這邊跟矯正署做相關討論那署長您新官上任我就還是整理一下我們目前持續追蹤到一些新的問題進度但是請放心我們就是一起努力那我們看到的問題跟您討論第一個我們想要問一下目前少角學校的處遇實施條例草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2881.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2898.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
跟少官所處於實施條例的草案的進度當然我們看到你們都有報請行政院審查而且在2025年5月20日跟2025年2月4日分別就兩個草案都有相關進度但是為什麼我要這樣問什麼時候可以送進立法院因為如果根據CRC |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2899.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2913.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
確實這些兒少他們的處遇條例必須要有相關的特殊專法在沒有這個專法之前也就是這個專法還沒有三讀通過之前這些孩子們目前他們都是適用於監獄行刑法 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2915.135 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
2933.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
這個是嚴重違反CRC所以站在維護兒少權益跟我們希望有更適當的儲育條例的前提之下我確實要請您承諾或是給我一個進度到底少關手儲育實施條例跟少角學校儲育實施條例什麼時候可以從行政院送到立法院來 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
2935.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
2958.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
謝謝委員的關心這兩個條例的話我們都已經報送給行政院來審核當中不過行政院的話大概要證詢很多專家學者的意見他很慎重來看待這個條例那我想我們會再來跟行政院那邊來問到看是還有哪些是我們需要再補強的地方我們希望他盡速來通過來實施來送到我們貴院來做一個審核 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
2958.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
2987.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
好但是我要再次提醒署長在沒有這兩個條例之前我要再次強調孩子們現在是被用監獄刑刑法在對待這裡面有非常多不適合用在他們身上的做法所以我要拜託署長我當然行政院我當然可以理解行政院要問專家學者也好要問更多第一線實務工作也好但對於孩子們在這些少角校也好少關所他們的狀況我認為我們應該要更積極所以我這裡要拜託公開拜託署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
2988.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3012.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
拜託 跟行政院這邊積極討論應該的 謝謝第二個 我想要看從相關新聞事件來看但是請署長不用擔心我沒有只想看個案 我想看通案少角校一直以來都有非常多的新聞狀況不管是上個月有所謂用熱水潑灑教導員我們辦公室當時有立刻發文給矯正署我們希望你們可以及時的處理但是我想要講 其實這已經不是第一次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3013.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3029.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
從2021年被監察院提出糾正因為校方的暴力管理到去年還有學生的暴動案再加上上個月的攻擊事件我要說的是這些孩子們他們所處的環境的狀況至於他們做出這樣的事情我會說一點都不奇怪但身為 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3031.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3048.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
想要協助他們的大人我們可以幾個面向來看署長我們來看一下這個投影片第一個關於這個被害教導員不管在個別的案件當中或是未來假設還有相關暴力事件所有這些被害教導員他們所必須有的被良善的對待包含醫療的支持心理的支持相關的賠償這是第一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3049.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3066.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
第二個關於做出這些行為的少年我們後續會有任我們會有任何的教化或者是介護或者相關的輔導還有他們其實應該也還是有法律究責的可能跟他們的行為再來校方管理的處置目前我認為有大大的改進之處 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3068.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3087.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
當然我尊重主席希望我們時間有限我就先提出問題我所提出的這些問題可不可以請找證書在一個月內給我相關報告我們可以就這個個案也可以就我剛說的去年的一個攻擊案件我認為孩子們的狀況應該越來越緊急需要我們大人幫忙我們來往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3088.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3102.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
除了相關的新聞事件個案之外我們來看一下到底發生了什麼事情當我們遇到問題想要解決問題我們就要找到問題背後可能造成的原因有哪些我左手邊是四所角校的目前代理教師人數 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3103.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3122.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
署長你可以看到我框一個紅色的框框起來你可以看一下各個學校的代理教師人數如果按照教育部國教署的規定代理教師不可以超過百分之八我認為教校雖然有其特殊性但我們也希望不要離這個百分之八太遠可是很可惜的是我們來看一下這個比例其實都偏高 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3123.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3137.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
我想署長你應該算得出來端平38%城鎮15%立志21%我再次強調教育部的規定是希望不要超過8%再來如果把代理教師細分在右手邊的這個數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3139.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3160.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
三招之後也就是只要有大學學歷但我沒有教師證我也沒有心理師證我也沒有社工師證我只要是一個大學生我願意去應徵相關工作我就可以進到學校擔任代理在課老師我們來看一下端平有五個人是這樣的狀況城鎮有一位立志有兩位名揚有零位我要講的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3161.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3185.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
在一般學校裡面已經有很多代理代課老師告訴我們學生的狀況很複雜原生家庭的狀況很複雜社區文化很複雜所以身為一個沒有專業證照的老師進去其實是辛苦的更何況在這四所矯正學校裡面這些完全沒有受過心理輔導社工教育相關專業的老師他只是因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3186.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3205.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
熱情 有愛或者是因為找一份工作他進到這四所教校去當代理教師那我們現場如何現場給予增能給予支持去回應他們投身這一份教職我覺得這也是您上任之後可能您第一時間還沒有注意到的問題但我要持續跟您說謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3206.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3221.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
對於這些沒有證照的老師我不是要講他們沒有證照所以不該進去喔而是這些沒有證照的老師他們在現場遇到學生的樣態絕對比一般社區學校還要複雜沒有錯那我們如何協助他們好 再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3224.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3241.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
老師的部分我講完了我們來看一下收容人數其實大人的監所也遇到一樣的問題因為詐騙案的關係所以收容人數屢創新高而在少角校跟少關所我們也看見了這個現象其實我之前在上個會期就已經跟法務部討論過 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3244.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3257.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
不管是教化的人力 戒護的人力有沒有機會持續增加相對應這個持續增加的收容人數但一旦一旦這些收容人數增加其實現場環境的潛在風險一定也會增加對不對 署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3259.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3275.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
一旦潛在風險增加對於我們原本想要教化的這些孩子們我們如何提升教學現場的品質生活的品質還有一旦收容人數持續上升角勝署這邊有什麼相關的回應因為我們可以想像 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3276.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3299.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
現場的住宿環境也好教學現場的環境如果因為人數上升而越來越差我們可以想像我剛剛說的前面的暴力事件可能可能就會隨之增加這是機率上的問題對不對好 署長我今天提出了非常多問題我剛說了我今天就是先提出問題後續要一起努力再來下一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3300.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3326.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我們看到在2023年法務部推出一個與愛同行幫助矯正學校的弱勢學生親子互動我把這個題目叫做家庭教育家庭教育一直是我們在跟教育部對話裡面非常重要的一環因為最近近十年其實很多的家長也都明白的告訴政府機關說請提供家庭教育的資源讓我們身為家長年輕家長知道如何協助教養小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3326.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3342.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
不要讓小孩出現3C的問題社會教育的問題這樣那也謝謝法務部跟上這個腳步做家庭教育但是我要提這個家庭教育的內涵可能還可以再更精進目前我所知道你們規劃的活動其實就是好像就是讓他們見面讓家長跟收容人孩子們見面對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3346.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3363.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
但我想如果矯正署在相關資源允許的情況下可不可以更深化這個家庭教育我舉一個例子我之前過往在做親子教育的時候我曾經幫某些縣市的法院演講我是講者來聽我的演講都是他們孩子是收容人 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3364.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3389.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
我們在幾次的親子教育工作坊之後其實很多家長會讓我們知道讓身為講師的我知道說原來只要轉換一個溝通的方法只要轉換一個看待孩子的視角其實我的孩子可能就不會走上歧路了我同樣要關心小孩說今天出門有沒有吃早餐我可以很兇的跟他說我早餐都幫你買好了放在這邊你還不吃或者是用另外一個語句問他說你要不要吃一下早餐媽媽有話想跟你聊 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3389.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3403.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
可能光是這樣的語氣轉換可能這些家長都沒有想過就這麼簡單所以我認為如果矯正署這邊願意持續提供收容少年家庭的家庭教育協助我們可以做得更多做得更好後續我們再來討論好 剩下30秒最後一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3405.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3431.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我們看到一個非常正向的新聞我要這邊要謝謝矯正署 謝謝法務部矯正署你們願意持續協助四所少年腳效引入適應運動這個也是我們辦公室之前在教育部那邊跟國教署溝通因為少腳效的校長們告訴我們很多孩子進到少腳效之後才被發現原來他是特教生但以前他的求學生活從來沒有人發現他是特教生 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3432.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3461.916 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
所以校長們來跟我們求救說可不可以把特教運動資源帶入矯正學校非常謝謝國教署跟法務部這邊積極的合作我們在上個月看到相關的案例江一村老師也是長期從事適應運動這個部分我要拜託矯正署持續支持是所矯效的適應運動運動部也成立了未來適應運動會放到運動部去這邊我們也希望成立跨部會的討論我們辦公室這邊也會積極協助矯正署跟運動部以上可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3463.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3475.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
所以署長我今天講了很多很不好意思沒有什麼時間給你回應但是我想要在第一次我們的業務報告裡面提出我們持續關心少角的問題好不好我們一起努力好謝謝署長謝謝主席謝謝是的非常好那接下來我們請吳宗憲委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3490.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3494.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
麻煩部長還有矯正署長好 有請部長還有矯正署長喂 委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3506.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3532.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
兩位好我想我現在就提一個東西主要就是從苗栗這兩天發生的隨機殺人案我想來提一個就是其實我們現在看到一個女童她放學回家然後在馬路上面遇到這個隨機殺人犯其實這段時間我一直強調說判死跟執行槍決有市警的必要性但是總是不被我們現在的政府所相信 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3534.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3563.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
這個女童的媽媽她其實她哭著說她說這個問題不能根治嗎這樣大家怎麼安心也就是我們的政府連保障我們民眾在路上走能夠安全的回到家連這個一點的保障都沒有辦法做到其實這是一個不及格的政府因為今天這個不是我們不能說這只是一個單純個案因為這個會造成全民的恐懼大家走在路上不知道什麼時候會無端被殺所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3563.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3575.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
政府應該要有所作業不是每一次都要等到又有人倒下了政府又出來講講話我記得2016年蔡英文那時候有提到社會安全網那2022年我們又再投了407億進去但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3578.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3601.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
民進黨執政這九年了到底有沒有辦法建立一個讓人民安心的制度還是這個制度一次又一次的把一些高危險的暴力犯罪者又把他放走所以我在想說到底要多久之後我們才會重視到這個問題所以我想我今天提了幾個問題我大概是從司法體系 矯正體系還有獨兵體系我想說來請教部長這個問題那我想 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3605.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3629.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
我想問一下部長就對這種嚴重反社會人格暴力犯罪已經入獄的那你們有沒有什麼預防他再犯的做法這部分那個在矯正署這邊在有做一些的一個輔導我想這部分輔導的一個有一些的密度那最主要的就是在一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3632.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3652.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
像我們了解這個案件我們大概會從各管室心理師輔導跟教會室來提供基礎的處理這個有16次總共16次有27個小時那進階處理有16次32個小時而且是這個個案它本來就是一個毒癮的犯者所以成癮的戒癮這部分家庭人際關係這部分我們都會加強來做一個輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3654.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3679.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
另外其實這個個案是沒有假釋的這是期滿才出去 其實他出去我們有做一個因為他是否要 所以我們有轉嫌給獨尾中心有苗栗縣的獨尾中心做一個輔導另外我們在耕寶這部分我們也有一些的聯絡我們安排那個就業或者就醫甚至參加一些的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3679.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3694.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
他全部都拒絕謝謝部長 謝謝部長那所以沒有用所以沒有這樣好了我先跟部長說一下部長 其他國家在面對這種東西的時候其實他們都看到一個點就是有一些人不能再被放回街上 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3695.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3717.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
我們現在司法精神病院到現在還搞不定對不對我記得我還是學生的時候就已經在講司法精神病院了這麼多年過去了還是什麼都沒有所以這些人他刑滿放出去對 確實依照現行我國的法律你沒有辦法對他怎麼樣但是就不作為嗎我跟各位 我跟報告相關的細節我可能我再用我的粉專寫好了因為時間不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3718.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3738.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
加拿大他對於這種危險的犯罪他評估有高度風險再實施暴力犯罪他會有社區的長期監控的制度第二個澳洲的刑法他對於這種高風險的恐怖主義犯罪者而且還會構成威脅的人他也會有一些拘留令或延長監督令那德國他有一個保安監禁 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3739.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3768.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
所以是不是請各位你們用比較法的觀念下去看一下我國有沒有辦法引入相關的制度因為現在實體法是法務部你們在處理就是提出那個草案是不是我們可以比較一下其他國家的制度對於這種有可能再犯的高風險的人我們要有其他的引入其他制度讓我們執法者有法規可循不要讓這些人直接回到街上這是第一個第二個矯正體系的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3768.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3788.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
我再提一個啦矯正協會有說啦監獄不是魔法洗衣機啦不可能洗白所有的犯罪這句話我完全認同不太可能就是說你監獄進去你就完全的洗白但是呢我們還是要有所作為啊否則現在的監獄變成什麼現在監獄不是洗衣機現在監獄變成冷凍庫拿進去冰 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3792.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3808.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
關個八年十年兵出來又是原來的那個樣子繼續在社會上犯罪那這個就失去了矯正機關它真正的目的所以其實我前面幾個會期我一直在做的事情就是想辦法強化我國的司法的制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3810.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3822.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以我們去看了北鎖我們去看了地檢署當然我的每一個作為你今天來看每一個作為就是為了強化我國的司法制度當然我在做的那段時間我一直被一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3823.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3841.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
一些那個立委一些什麼說我什麼什麼政治施壓為了某個特定人其實我都後來我不甩這些人因為國家不能沒有人做事我們做的每一件事都被政治上色被政治貼標籤事實上你去看現在監所 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3842.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
3865.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
教化的人力 我看到的是1比138這是矯正協會提到的但是一個教會是要面對有時候超過200個受刑人然後你再扣掉一些行政 甚至到1比300這個東西你矯正署就不足我們一直覺得說這個東西法務部你在政策上面是不是要有所 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
3866.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
3883.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
有所改善缺人補人 缺錢補錢你那些需求你要送過來那我們來看是不是有需要我們當然會全力的支持這先跟部長說明一下所以上個會期我一直說借戶能力要增加還有矯正署的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
3884.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
3898.795 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
要爭取或者是說要怎麼樣去讓這些心理師教委是願意留在監所或給予這些監所的這介護人員實質的加班津貼這部分我想麻煩部長你能夠再回去研商好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
3899.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
3918.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
這部分我也謝謝委員的支持就是我們人跟預算這部分我們再來做一個顯示好 那這個我希望一個月內你看能不能夠跟人事總署延商一下或是一個半月好了把一些制度改善方案能夠給我只要有必要為了我國的司法制度以及人民的安全我會在國民黨民眾黨那邊 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
3920.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
3939.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
幫大家多講話該爭取的人力 該爭取的預算我們就努力爭取這是全國人民安全的問題好不好部長這部分麻煩你因為我真的很覺得很累每次我們有所作為為了這個司法制度的作為到最後都被貼標籤說我們去看北索怎麼樣後來我發現一件事 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
3939.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
3968.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
不懂的人喊罪大聲不懂的人罵罪大聲他根本搞不清楚我國司法制度出了什麼問題當我們願意為這個司法制度改善再努力的時候他在旁邊給你貼政治標籤我想部長你一定聽得懂我在講什麼再麻煩部長能夠這樣做還有第三個建議就是毒品體系的部分我想這毒品的部分我們都知道毒品是那個萬惡的冤首其實這一次的這個隨機殺人的這個人其實他之前有用毒品的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
3969.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
3974.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
那部長現在毒品人口你應該認為說這個如果關出來是誰在負責 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
3978.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4001.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
這部分會轉接到毒品危害防止這個都一定會轉接的好 那似乎我們現在制度看起來是衛福部他們對不對但是我要跟部長報告一下因為社工不是警察他們跟我反映他們沒有偵查權 沒有自治權但他們在面對第一線的毒品人口其實他們常常受到暴力威脅 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4002.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4031.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
所以我覺得這個部分可能你們也要注意一下毒品人口他出獄之後的問題好不好所以我今天要講幾個重點我再重複一下高風險者出獄之後可以自由走動其實社會是不安的就是你這些人沒有控管好就會有這個問題還有社工他沒有偵查的能力所以你要他獨自面對這些毒品人口其實是真的是辛苦還有社會安全網其實目前是真的很脆弱 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4032.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4057.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
這部分再麻煩部長我想我剛剛提的那三個建議就是從司法從矯正從毒品人口控管這三個地方再麻煩部長能夠給我一個半月內給我回覆就三個提議有什麼問題也可以請同仁打電話給我或我的助理我來跟你說我需要哪一些資料好不好部長我們必須要一起為這個國家的安全一起努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4058.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4086.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
那最後我想提一個電子監控的問題因為最近一直有人來跟我們辦公室澄清電子監控的部分那包括像柯文哲也有反應說清晨接到電話那除了柯文哲之外我也接到很多就是目前上電子講聊的人一直說那個整天就接到那個電話說什麼又有一些問題了那這個會發生一個狀況就是會變成這個系統好像狼來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4087.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4105.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
他一直喊說有異常有異常結果被監控的人也很累要一直接電話監控的那些公務員也很辛苦要不停地打電話不停地確認對方在哪裡所以表示系統出了大問題那我後來去了解很多個案子我發現他那個異常的訊號的比例真的很驚人 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4107.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4123.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
這會發生一個問題就是監控者類的辦事我們這些辛苦的公務員類的辦事現在監控中心的主任是我同期的同學他們很辛苦被監控者的人權也發生問題我一直乖乖的依照法官的要求在那裡結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4124.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4139.439 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
他一直叫然後到最後這個監控中心又把這個異常的訊息一大串好幾頁的異常訊息交給法官結果法官一看到以為哇 那這個人怎麼一直異常然後不小心又把他抓回去關了所以在被監 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4140.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4168.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
監控者也對他們工作量增加被監控者的人權也受損害這個我目前發現有這個很嚴重的原因那這個原因是導致我們設備的異常率太高我跟你說我之前去那個那個科控中心我發現一件事情我們目前的那個妥善率很低佼寮我4月7號去的時候220個有90個在代修所以耗損率是4成但是我們預算不是沒有編我看了一下414年是3500 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4171.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4198.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
法務部高檢署113年114年也有3653萬多那115年又更高了又到增加了3690萬然後法務部又多3650萬也就是說我們錢一直在邊增加那當然我們現在電子監控的人越來越多但是設備啊異常的那個市井的那個誤判率太高了那個東西是不對的就像 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4198.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4225.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
人在法庭開庭結果接到監控中心的電話說異常 你現在人在哪裡他說我在開庭所以這個不對這個會變成狼來了一直狼來了結果到最後我們真正希望監控他的人因為一直狼來了結果科控中心人也疲乏了就他去做壞事的時候我們以為是警訊的誤報結果有的人是乖乖在家裡卻一直不停的要回應這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4227.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4255.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
科控中心所以是不是请部长这个部分要赶快弄清楚所以人权的风险也是一个我刚讲了会不会另外造成治安风险也会有因为有一些人我们真的需要监控他就因为一直的误报让我们对于他会不会有风险而造成判断上面的疲乏我可不可以简单的一个说明所以部长因为时间不够了部长所以我还是我提几个点是不是我们要 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4256.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4278.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
備註一個白名單就是他出庭 就醫或長時間在搭那個海線的火車等等的這個只要有事先的預報那我們是不是應該要排除那再來就是要建立一個就是我們把很多個案收集有一些比較收訊 弱收訊地方的那個地圖清單能夠把它列出來還有就是到底是設備沒電 訊號斷線這個分級判斷要出來錯誤的告警是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4285.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4308.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
不是說你整個一定都要送給法院因為法官搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的預警我是不是可以做簡單一個說明那不然這樣子也會造成法官的誤判法官他在看資料的時候他也搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的示警哪一個是有風險他只看到一大串的示警之後他覺得這個人是不是真的要跑是不是一直在測試我想這個都是問題好 部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4311.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4329.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
所謂維修那一部分因為電子腳環還有手環使用後我們一定要維修就像飛機飛好一定要做維修這個不是說就是壞掉另外訊號一定告警的話為什麼它主要是離線告警或者是低電壓告警可能電量不夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4330.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4354.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
或者是因為它那個離線就是因為那個環境的時候是不是訊號沒辦法說就像我們手機有時候是因為大樓或是什麼一個環境而造成那個訊號所以當然我們那個監控的人員他一定要去打電話去說你到底人怎麼樣了要做一個確認那我想這個委員關心的問題我們另外再做書面部長你剛講的都是我剛提出來的有一些地方訊號如果我們都可以理解 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4355.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4383.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
但是這個是不是你們自己應該要建立一個依據許多的個案把它累積出來哪個地方可能訊號落再來因為訊號落等等的問題你一直把它註記下去之後法官看到的時候會不會覺得這個人的訊號一直異常一直有問題所以他會認為他就有可能再回去關這個對於人權也有侵害各種情形包括故意破壞的都有這個當然我們要嚴懲我想我們這個會執行面的問題我不可能知道那麼多 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4384.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4394.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
那這個有關 監控的部分兩個月內能夠給我一份報告那有什麼問題就請跟我們然後最後我跟你講可不可以麻煩為了社會安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4396.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4420.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
我們先在修法之前我們先做到一個就是你們看一下未來一年內可能會出獄的這個高風險的暴力犯罪可不可以先幫我們做到四個點第一個出獄前再犯風險的評估第二個強化心理跟行為的教化輔導這個麻煩你們強化我知道你們現在有在做第三個跨機關的通報各機關橫向的通報再來建立追攻跟加防機制 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4421.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4443.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這些你不能放生他啦放生他出去他再犯我們就倒楣了人民就倒楣好不好好那就麻煩部長麻煩組長大家我們一起努力為了國家為人民的安全我們一起努力好謝謝兩位謝謝謝謝吳宗憲委員還有因為剛剛不僅是吳宗憲委員還有先前的黃國昌委員一直也都提到有關於電子 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4444.055 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4472.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
這個科技設備的這個有很多瑕疵還有很多帶維修的地方所以請防務部這邊務必要將這塊做好不能說是讓這種什麼電子腳鐐或電子科技設備有這麼多看到就是它運作上面出現很嚴重的問題的地方好的那麼接下來是不是可以請請吳宗憲委員幫我幫我一下 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4486.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4488.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
好 下一位我們請翁曉琳委員進行詢問好 謝謝那麼有請部長還有矯正署的署長好 麻煩部長署長委員早是 部長好因為剛剛這個中線委員也都談到了有關於這個日前發生的苗栗 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4508.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4512.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
隨機砍人案那麼這個兇刑其實在10年前也在同一個地方以同樣的方式砍傷了4人沒想到出獄之後還差不多半年左右的時間又在隨機砍傷了3人這次有2名國小的女童以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4526.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4548.313 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
一名這個見有為出來要制止兇手的這樣的一個男士那當然案件發生之後呢真的很多的民眾就在質疑說到底我們矯正機關的狡化功能教化功能是不是出了嚴重的問題尤其是這名本來他就是一個吸毒犯那麼剛剛其實中信委員其實這裡已經也都問過了所以呢我接下來我想要 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4549.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4563.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
在谈的一件事情就是首先就是其实本席看到缴证署在这个案件发生之后随即就发布了新闻稿深切谴责暴力犯罪并且指出在近年 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4563.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4587.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
积极推动的个别化处育计划针对不同的犯刑情节受刑人引进专业的辅导人力以及医疗资源增加个案在间所需的心理辅导与身心治疗密度的这样的一段话那试图想要化解外界的疑虑可是本席看到这个新闻稿感受到就是说怎么矫正署就以这样的一指 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4588.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4607.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
聊聊術語的新聞稿就想要打消外界的疑慮我覺得這樣子是一個不負責任的一個做法那麼事實上針對就是在這個受刑人當時他在監獄裡面他到底接受了什麼樣子的一個教化 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4608.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4629.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
的輔導那麼我們知道依照監獄刑刑法的規定其實凶嫌在監獄服刑的期間都必須要有一個入監調查結果以及個別的處遇計畫那麼請問到底這方面當時的矯正署你們有沒有再去把這個受刑人他當時在監獄裡面所 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4633.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4659.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
接受了哪些訓練以及他的處遇的計畫結果拿出來看 拿出來檢視中間有沒有發現有什麼地方是沒有做到的以至於他出獄之後又同樣再犯可不可以請署長來報告一下有關於這名更生人在這段時間裡面他到底受了些什麼樣的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4660.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4682.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
好 謝謝委員的關心其實這個個案的話發生之後我們就深切的檢討我們針對類似個案的話我們要求現階段我們全面的普查看還有沒有類似像他這樣的犯罪的情節然後我們給他做的這些教誨處理的跟毒品的這樣的一個處理情形看有沒有到位那其實這個秋信個案的話我們跟他調查的結果的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4682.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4710.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
他在監獄輔導總共有70次教育室對他的輔導你說有多少次 70次70次可以大聲一點有70次的一個輔導不管是一般的個別的一個輔導或是說他針對他毒品的針對他暴力的這樣加起來有70次的一個輔導另外他在監獄救人有80次都有按照規定來跟他做一個處置可是的話他有一個很特別的情形他並沒有看身心科 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4711.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4733.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
并没有看身心科他没有列入我们精神科的一个疾患的列管的个案因为他当初发难的时候的话当初的话也有透过在法院端有透过那个中国医药学院跟他做精神科鉴定认为他的现实感还是充足的并不是因为精神病而来犯这个个案所以说从很多迹象来跟他看的话 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4735.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4751.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
似乎他是一个非常特别的他应该在人格上有某种冲动的不理性的或是他的那个压力到一个点的话他容易的话整个人的话就整个人爆发出这样的特别的一个行为出来所以说像这样的我们会特别来跟他了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4751.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4775.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
剛剛的這個說明當中可以知道其實在整個的這個教化過程他接受了這麼多輔導的這個過程當中應該總是會有些跡象認為說這個受刑人是不是應該要去看看精神科而且你們看起來是以第一次他入獄的時候的當時的那個判斷來作為他是否是需要接受相關的精神方面的治療那麼對於一個受刑人他在監獄裡面這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4777.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4794.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
做滿了這個8年多的假刑期難免我覺得他的心理上面可能也會有一些改變那這部分的話本期希望就是未來矯正署可能要再對於類似像這樣的受刑人必須要再有更多方面的 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4796.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4801.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
檢查或檢討不能夠說是讓這樣子的一個問題之後他們出獄之後又再發生重蹈覆轍這個是會對社會來講這是一個很危險大家都認為說像這樣一個是不定時的炸彈那麼以及之後像是 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4815.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4834.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
對於這個假設和出獄之後的受保護管束人還有更生人的追蹤機制社區安全防護精神治療以及相關的輔導資源這部分其實我建議法務部矯正署還有聯同衛福部那邊應該要有一個更宏觀的一個計劃方案能夠提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4835.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
4849.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
這樣的話其實對於社會來講才會感受到是比較安全的那這部分的話可能請防務部還有矯正署署長這部分要積極的要做進行一些跨部會的會議那麼也請這個矯正署可能在兩週之內是不是可以將您剛剛所說的 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
4853.636 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
4874.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
對於這個出信受刑人當時在監獄裡面所做的輔導教育相關記錄能夠提供給本席這邊一份資料好 那麼接下來我請署長可以先回座我接下來要請廉政署的副署長以及調查局副署長然後也麻煩這邊的話有些問題要就叫部長部長 我接下來我想請教您的就是您認為我國的廉政績效好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
4882.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
4899.881 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
現在是一直在進步之中有在進步嗎對啊因為我們那個CPI的指數上是從180進步到25這個是上個年度進步三名我想我們一直在進步好了這兩年都是這個差不多是67分排名第25名這個我坦白說這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
4900.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
4921.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
排名並不是一個很好的名次為什麼呢因為我們如果看到幾個在國家裡面就設有專責的廉政機構的這樣的一個機關它的青年印象指數排名來說的話我們在亞洲我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
4922.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
4944.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
排名第四位 新加坡排名第三澳洲第十名 香港第十七名然後台灣是第25名事實上跟已有廉政專責機關國家做相比台灣是敬佩莫做 並不是說是很好也許在整個全世界來說看起來不算太差但是事實上因為我們是設有專責的廉政機關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
4946.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
4968.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
所以這個青年印象指數的排名這部分其實有待加強的那當然本席這裡有發現到一個問題就是說看起來現在我們的宿攤機關似乎有跌床駕屋的問題因為我們同時又有廉政署那調查局底下又有一個廉政處這兩個機關這兩個單位彼此之間在權責方面似乎就有出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
4969.955 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
4994.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
有競合或是衝突的一些問題那就這部分來講當然會影響到整個廉政效能如果說當發生某些事情的時候然後能互推皮球那就變成功能不彰那當然有可能就是如果兩個機關都願意積極的去處理可能也會發生一些事務上的競合所以就這部分來講吳曉得部長你怎麼去看這兩個機關的彼此之間的職權衝突的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5000.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5019.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
我想這個是調查局跟廉政組各有職長調查局的話他也不是只有數攤他有其他的一些的犯罪的一些的偵辦那另外廉政組最是以房攤為主 數攤為輔那因為是一個分進合集交叉佛網的一個概念那我想這個剛剛委員有關心的是不是有進合的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5020.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5030.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
那雖然剛開始的話大家一定有一些的不習慣有磨合的地方到目前為止今天就是在開吊簾的一個聯繫的會議那我想現在調查局跟廉政署這邊是合作無間那有些案件是兩個單位是由在檢察官一個偵查組體合作無間就好像一個屋頂有兩個有兩面的那個那個時候一個檢察官當一個偵查他會指揮廉政署跟指揮調查局的這些廉政官跟調查員來做一個合辦的 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5050.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5072.516 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
好 謝謝部長因為時間的關係所以我想這個部分本席要求一個月內請調查局跟廉政署能夠提出廉政訴談的績效分析並且法務部應該要就廉政組織人力及修法的調整來提出相關的評估報告那麼如果說今天正好在開會的話也可以把相關的會議的記錄也提供給本席一份做參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5073.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5098.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
這樣可以嗎可以最後一個問題就是有關於這次我看到你們在立法計畫裡面有一個法案本身很有興趣叫做國民參與不起訴處分審查法這個部分看起來你們是參考日本的法治正在研擬有關於國民參與不起訴處分的審查法 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5099.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5120.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
那麼這個部分基本上就是可能未來可以讓國民直接參與整個的不起訴處分的審查似乎就是從現在有國民法官以後變成有國民檢察官就這個部分來講的話不知道法務部這邊可不可以簡單的說明這部分我請次長來因為他要主持 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5127.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5147.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
各位報告有關於國民參審的部分事實上本部已經有研理相關的草案那因為這涉及到國民法官國民參審的問題我們要目前的這個法案還在研議當中那因為涉及到國民審查會他到底要設在法院還是設在檢查體系他涉及很大的一個組織的一個變造改造的問題所以基本上這個草案我們是引進日本制度目前還在研議當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5148.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5177.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
基本上本席其实也支持像这样子的一个做法就是如果说可以扩及到就不起诉处分的话那么可以让国民让社会那么对于检察官的种种作为可以更有机会去参与然后去检视那么可以提升司法的信任度那么另外其实本席在最近我也提出了一个新的修法就是为了要强化司法的透明公正应该要从检察书类 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5178.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5206.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
公开的这个方面做起那么未来不仅是要公开这个起诉书连不起诉书还有这个相关检疫判决的处刑的等等这些其实都要公布那这部分的话我想也希望保务部能够支持本席所提出的这样的法案毕竟这个部分可以提升社会大众对于司法资讯的公开透明提升信任度我觉得这是很有必要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5207.651 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5224.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
關於這個不歧途處分書類是否要公開因為不歧途處分畢竟是犯罪嫌疑不足所以這部分是否要公開因為涉及到當事人的個人隱私的問題還有政策部門的問題這部分我們再來研議好 那就是我今天就是質詢到這邊然後也請部長這裡提供給本席相關的報告謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5241.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5244.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
好 下一位請王逸川委員質詢謝謝好 謝謝主席 我們請部長法務部部長委員早部長 幾個問題請教在你們今天提出來的書面報告裡頭立法計畫裡頭有一個叫做 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5269.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5286.398 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
原定饋政罪及影響力交易罪那就是主要是對就是說不具公務員身份但是對公務員有影響力之人你是他的朋友啦 他的金主啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5288.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5310.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
那你們現在想要去修刑法的這一個121條之一不法規正罪123條之一的影響力交易罪嘛是部長我請問一下如果有一個公務員他預期半年後要退休半年後要退休那就有人去找他 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5312.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5329.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
你半年後就退休啊 退休六十幾月對不對 這年輕人 這麼有財政議案就繼續發揮一下不然我看 創一個辦公室 裝潢一下臨江退休到有所在的地方去這三百萬拿去裝潢啦這樣 他們朋友啦 他們朋友這樣跟他說 一個辦公室這樣啦一個辦公室 半年後要退休 知道他半年後要退休 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5342.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5350.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
他那接下來半年他還是公務員喔他還是公務員如果這樣的狀況算不算這個東西 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5352.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5370.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
他這部分影響力交易罪就是意圖不法的一個利益因為公務機關的一個決定會有不法的利益就是受人之託嘛 或者他主動他沒有跟他說個案啦沒有說個案嘛沒有說個案 他就說你就半年要退休啊 看你這麼有財情對不對不可以這樣就退呢 社會純新的創一個辦公室 總統一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5379.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5406.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
這三百萬我看大家好朋友倒三天一個你就給他收下去 收下去 收下去這公務人員可以收下去這個委員所提這個案例有可能比較是不法饋贈罪不法饋贈罪不法饋贈喔對 就是因為去搜索這些因為植物有利害關係可能比較傾向於不法饋贈罪沒有 沒利害關係喔我沒跟你說我生的人也沒跟你說我要跟你拜託什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5408.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5411.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
那這樣會不會是公務員年生能力規範的一個問題啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5413.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5438.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
因為如果是親友的話當然是那個送的東西沒有限制但是如果說有一些的植物上的一些的關係那個只能五百塊以下那另外沒有植物關的公務禮是三千塊以下如果他親友的話當然是親戚朋友父親要送給子女或者是兄弟之間或胞類那種的那當然沒有好 反過來反過來有一個公務人員要退休 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5443.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5472.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
現在他旁邊的人 他就去找他朋友說欸 以前我們這個也有怎麼對你不錯呢你就要退休啊 你也倒三工一個 退休就沒地方可以去我們也找個辦公室給你裝潢一下我看你這樣啦 你很聰明啦不然我們這個 你也平常都叫他大的大的 現在就要退休啊這樣啦 你倒三工一個 多少都沒關係啦過去也都給你倒三工對不對你看一下人情義利 倒三工一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5473.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5502.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
這會得什麼罪他講完 他的朋友講完那兩個人真的要我站起來還要站去辦公室這個要看有沒有跟職務有關嘛如果職務有關的話那當然是有犯罪的一個問題好 這個案啦 高雄這個個案所以你這因為你這條文你會說不具公務員身份但對公務員有影響力之人嘛這高雄這檢察官 法官 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5503.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5517.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
在這一條上面的這種裁量判斷空間會很大影響 有影響力之人這到時候看要怎麼用這個可能修法過程大家還要來討論一下這個因為這個還在 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5522.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5538.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
還在審查中 我想這部分他就會有意見讓這個構成要件更周延 更合理 更有可行性那能夠解決這些的實際上的問題所以這個還沒有送到立法 這還沒有審訊所以剛才委員提那個問題我想這個跟職務上有沒有利害關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5545.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5549.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
是不是這個是真的誠意有沒有利害關係有些還沒發生嘛因為他可能會有契約嘛啊契約口頭契約你啊辦人的人你也搞不清楚啊他們兩個有說什麼我們不知道嘛就是有口頭契約嘛啊第二個就是說他們兩個關係很好要保證你現在給我們這個常識關係很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5566.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5573.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
我說你們兩個關係很好想像一下你們兩個關係很好結果告訴我沒有啦我們兩個關係不好不要亂說公務在處理很順暢對啊 我意思是說以後這個年年看啦年年看我把他們定期 每個月都在吃飯啊有一個吃飯啊大家體育弄一個聯誼會關係不錯啦不然可能每個月都在吃飯這一種年年看在這種有影響力的這個定義上可能後續要更周延或者我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5596.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5612.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
醫療這個事情 大家亂念有些人去用羅茲罪名也有可能 這個是一個第二個剛才蔣介石委員在講這個科技監控我請問一下 現在去用科技監控的人他對他們家人 要走去看電影嗎覺得跟你說他這個不用 他最主要是當然有 像港口海岸這些等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5622.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5631.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
機場的這些他會有做一個他如果是住在新庭他還可以跑去台東 花蓮 宜蘭一直都要度假那個是沒問題啊沒問題他走台11線沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5635.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5659.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
訊號的問題啦 因為自相我們手機啊我們手機啊有些有些不是啦 我就說我要去他有些告警會有好 我要去基隆廟口夜市靠近基隆港你知道嗎他有一些的違理就是不能靠近他有一些警戒就不能立刻他會跟他說明當事人知不知道他要帶這個之前當事人知不知道他不可以去基隆廟口吃夜市廟口是知道啊 這個可以的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5667.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5685.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
他那個有一個道法因為他有一個跟他交代就是說哪些地方是不能去的海邊當然是有一些的怕偷渡所以會有告知他可以去台東成功移港 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5687.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5708.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
這個個案的話我沒辦法我現在的意思是說他現在在移動有些地方你告訴他不能去對不對那但是他沒有去那些地方他跟某些人接觸一天講完講三兩天一堆講我們也不知道一堆講我們也不知道你也不會去查這個在監控裡頭都是合法的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5710.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5725.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
只要這個訊號能夠追蹤到我想這個都不會去打電話去跟他查說他登記的居所是新的他在高雄過夜三天可以嗎可以啊 這個可以啊這個沒有在 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5728.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5754.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
限制他的行動的自由就在台灣 不要靠近因為他整個就是一個逃亡碼因為有限制他的一個區域所以這個電子監控就是你們告訴他哪裡不能去因為他有些訊號的問題那他不能去 如果去了你們就會預警了嗎就會預警 他會告警了好 剛剛有些委員提到你們的設備 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5757.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5771.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
這樣啦 我是覺得你可能你的名詞定義有問題啦名詞定義啦 譬如說車開公里後要去保用嘛保用就進維修廠 保養廠嘛 你的定義就可能叫做維修啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5773.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5780.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
他可能 一個人喝了A飲料 收回來的時候還要檢查嘛那去給你們放在那個庫裡面嘛 應該是這樣嘛應該是說 比較精彩的就要保養啦就保養維修中啦因為剛才有舉例嘛 因為這個維修不是壞掉而是說 因為東西要有它的準確性因為我剛剛看吳宗憲委員 他的表格裡面 最旁邊有一個叫庫存 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5796.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5816.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
還有一個說準備要贏的名詞嘛那是你那個健康中心寫的所以不是壞了啦他可能就是在維修怎麼樣的時候我覺得那個名詞啊那個我們回去再一個不是說維修維護中還是說怎麼一個保養維護中對啦 不然保養中也可以啦保養中維護中如果說壞了就是壞了這就是大家要定義清楚啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5822.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5850.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
你叫廠商的合約我這樣定義嗎這個我回去要再了解因為這個比較細節上的問題所以叫廠商的合約你剛招標把它定清楚然後這個外界要資料的時候那些東西到底是什麼車子的進產保養不是壞了所以剛才有講說偉兄其實我們那個用詞用的錯所以引起其他委員不是用錯啦你就是用那個名詞不精準啦改一個大家看得更有了解那個意思不然看得文字會覺得怪怪最後一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5851.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5863.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
因為最近有些城市很多的自殺的 自由落體的 服屍的 到我警察都斑斑的 都說沒有偷殺跡象 都自殺了很多這我看可能跟很多詐騙的受害者有關的 這我看你們是不是了解一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5871.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5881.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
查一下說這個 我不知道 每天的新聞說這裡又跳一個 那個又跳一個問當地的警方 警方說查查就沒問題了 那就自殺了啊 那就怎樣怎樣每一個個案加起來 搞不好是一個系統性的啦搞不好他們就是去那個詐騙集團 白白到沒辦法 白到沒辦法一大堆跳牢的嘛一大堆去跳河的嘛 很多嘛 所以有沒有可能是這樣啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5897.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5918.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
所以這個請法務部這個事情了解一下是 那個這邊我們再來做一個溝期啊沒有 那個溝期人家說很奇怪的啊我們這裡怎麼都有人在跳啊跳跳的都說沒有 都自殺的奇怪 那個自殺的啊自殺他們後面的原因是什麼是不是有共同的原因啊這個再請法務部大家關心一下好不好好 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5924.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
5927.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
好 謝謝王委員那接下來請審發會委員發言主席 我們請部長好 有請鄭部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
5947.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
5965.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
部長早今天短短的時間裡面我大概今天很認真的研讀你們的書面報告在書面報告裡面我特別重視你們的第12頁有關於 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
5969.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
5982.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
研修檢查刑事法規裡面的第二項法規研修販賣第一級毒品刑責規定要符合罪行相當原則這個部長有看到了這是你們的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
5984.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6009.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
報告裡面 另外我看到你們的這個這一本法務部立法計畫裡面也把這個毒品災害防治條例第17條修正案列在第14案也就是說這是你們的重點這個會期的重點的修法而且現在好像進度現在是不是送到行政院院會了現在這個已經審訊了你們部裡面審訊還是行政院行政院在今年已經審訊了已經審訊了是不是 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6013.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6039.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
你們這個修法當然是因應這個憲法法庭這個112年憲判第13號判決他針對這個他宣告這個毒品危害防治條例的第四條第一項前段是違憲這是只要是製造運輸販賣低級毒品就處死刑或無期徒刑那這樣子的這個規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6042.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6054.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
它事實上形度僵化啦那這個評價也失衡了它會導致一種結果就是你這個販賣它只用這個毒品的種類來規範導致販賣0.5公克的這個低級毒品跟販賣500公斤 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6061.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6084.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
這個第四級毒品這個這個刑度的這個衡量就完全跟這個他對社會的遺憾是相反的對法醫的侵害是這個這個顯然是失衡但是你們這個為了因應這個這個宪判制這112年宪判制第13號的這個宣判你們就用這個修法去修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6086.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6115.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
這個第十七條之一齁這個在那在你們第十七條之一簡單講你們就是把他的這個這個原本的第四條第一項的這個販賣一級毒品齁你們把他的行為、太陽、數量等如果情節輕微啦齁那你們嫌苛民宿你們認為就用這個五十九條減刑之後這減刑期刑之後還太重了你們可以再減刑一次你們大概就是立法立法意思就是這樣子對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6117.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6137.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
他是跟委員報告的確這個問題就我們這部分我們在一個有把製造運輸販賣各級毒品的這部分反正這些有情節輕微的我們都是列為修正廠就是說第五九條減輕期刑之後可以再 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6138.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6167.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
原引第十七條之一我們本來詐偽條本來就可以我們這次修法就把它可以減了減了當然如果還有五十九那另外法官另外再一次嘛我看你們的修正條文啊你們的修正條文這個行為太讓如果情節輕微嫌可敏速但是那個我們那個審訊版的審訊版的是我們現在審訊版的是製造販賣那個運輸各級毒品情節輕微得減刑得減刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6168.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6190.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
那你們原本的我不知道你們審訊版是什麼所以那個嫌困民宿的這部分因為我們當然是抱怨版還有一個嫌困民宿的那再加一次 只減一次嘛那你們原本的這個曾經有罪判決確定者不再實現這個還保留嗎這個是有保留這個是審訊版是有保留這個也就是說你們新增這種有這個等於說有前科的人就不能試用了 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6191.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6206.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
是不是 就是曾經判決曾經判決有罪曾經有罪判決確定的人就不能適用他就一樣販賣0.5公斤的一級毒品他就是死刑跟五級徒刑是這樣子嗎這樣子是不是好 來這邊我請那個事因為他是主 是參與 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6207.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6235.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
市長我跟你講你們這個修法我想你們也知道你們這個第17條之一你們用這種方式來修訂大法官針對第4條第一項前段的這個違憲這個是可以說是反應不佳不管是學界民間不只反應不佳是惡評如潮各位報告剛才講到那個但書除外不讓他檢行這事實上是我們現辦自他判決的意旨他對有犯罪記錄的狀況之下我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6237.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6262.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
這個外界認為說你們這樣子直接在這邊就是大法官說你這樣子違憲所以你就加一個十七條之一然後簡單的給他寫說這個還可以再減輕一次這個便宜形式的立法簡單就是敷衍大法官沒有沒有 更為報告事實上大法官他並沒有指示說這個法條本身是違憲他只是良心的空間在一些他原本是要 你看他們判決他原本是整部 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6263.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6280.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
法律要跟你宣告違憲他這個叫做適用上違憲他本身法條上面有違憲只是在這個情形法重的狀況之下在宣告你們這個草案17條是修正草案其實去年就提出來了去年你們提出來的時候民間就有很大對你們這個質疑聲音對不對事實上 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6283.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6308.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
到了今年你們最後送院還是照你們原本的我們送院版後來經過外界有一些反應之後我們後來召開會議我們事實上現在院裡面通過的版本審訊的版本事實上跟我們抱怨版已經不一樣了對 但是你們最後今天因為你們提出這個業務報告提到一樣十七條之一10月1號民間自改會它又開了一次記者會 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6309.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6318.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
你們也回應了嘛對 那明確治療科他認為是應該在法定法定刑上做處理但我們認為事後大法官會這個判決你們那時候10月1號你們的回應是這個法務部你們會廣納意見凝聚共識以這個符合憲判的意旨對那這10月8號出來的我們正式的書面報告你們沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6333.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6357.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
沒有納任何意見還是你們廣納意見之後覺得你們這種修法是最好的事實上沒有錯我們事實上後來就是召開各個會議找相關的機關來今天10月8號10月1號大概是10月1號之前但你們10月1號之後你們回應說你們還會再廣納意見還會再凝聚共識10月1號到今天你們做了什麼沒有你們提出來的還是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6360.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6381.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
這個各界這個意見我希望說你們能夠這個充分參考他們這個提出這個民間版提出這個整個修法它基本上是希望說我們把用毒品的種類跟毒品的數量兩個做加權加權之後做一個良害的標準對不對就是衡量它這個對這個危害的等級來做一個標準用這個標準來量刑 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6387.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6402.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
這樣子的修法意見希望你們能夠參考這邊有跟我們報告因為民間版它的版本事實上會涉及到整個獨品文化防治條例它整個架構會改變整個重量各方面整個這個法都全面要修正沒有錯它是支持體大事實上它 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6403.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6417.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
為什麼會做這樣就是因為原本你們只按照宣告一級毒品就是怎麼樣二級毒品你們只按照毒品的種類來量刑原本的法架構是這樣對不對原本法架構就是一級毒品是怎麼樣二級毒品是怎麼樣三級毒品 四級毒品 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6419.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6437.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
那民間就認為說這樣子只按照毒品的種類下去就會產生我剛所講的0.5公克的一級毒品跟500公斤的四級毒品這個良心的失衡嗎對 所以在這個狀況下現在我們修法是要賦予法官更大良心上的檢查空間我們希望你們能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6440.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6467.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
能夠檢討因為這個民間的反應並不是很小不只民間司改會你這學界也都質疑你們這個修法是敷衍大法官是便宜形式的修法我希望你們這個部分能夠在你們既然你們自己也說要廣大民間意見我希望你們能夠就這些部分跟民間至少你說溝通你們覺得這個是最好的你跟溝通應該是沒有問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6468.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6488.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
好不好 這個部分我們再 再把這個意見我們再反映給看 再來讓我檢討第二個 一樣是在這個 市長請回一樣是在我們的業務報告裡面第12頁 一樣是第12頁你們有提到有關於這個這個籌設要完備司法精神醫療處所的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6491.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6510.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
這部分我在今年三月的時候我在這個這裡發言我就曾經跟部長請教過有關於這個司法精神醫院的這個籌建進度那這個你們 你在那時候回答我說就是在今年年底會完工 明年啟用現在已經十月了今年年底能夠如期完工嗎司法精神醫院喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6516.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6539.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
我是病房他這個精神醫院的一個籌備最主要是由衛福部在主政的你們掌握的進度那今年的話應該目前在籌備建制中不是不是不是你回答114年你在3月是回答114年今年年底能夠如期完工 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6541.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6562.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
明年要啟用這是衛福部給我們提供的一個所以你們現在我們現在是因為法務部你們有沒有掌握進度對 那法務部那個衛福部的原來的預定就是在今年年底對 那現在已經剩兩個月了你們有沒有掌握進度能夠逐期完工嗎衛福部能夠逐期完工嗎你們有沒有掌握進度這個大概 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6564.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6581.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
原本這個法定裡面就是司法精神醫院但你在這個書面報告裡面你們就完全避談司法精神醫院這幾個字你在這裡第一點你寫籌設司法精神醫療保安處分執行處所模稜兩可 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6587.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6608.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
迴避掉司法精神醫院的這個進度他那個建設完成當然就會寫直接就寫司法精神的醫院嘛那現在是因為司法建設是屬於醫療這個除了司法精神醫院還有司法精神病床現在你們中部的 你們說中部的三十床也是今年年底要完工我們現在是今年年底能夠完工但是我想要他再加減 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6610.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6631.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
這個我們再努力 再努力能不能完工因為最主要是因為那個廠商的一個問題就是一個所以事實上有困難 是不是我們希望說能夠當然我們趕到今年能連年完工那不行 看明年上半年我們盡快來完成建置所以你們現在這個就是你們這個有關這個司法 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6634.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6643.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
這個司法精神病房這個部分你們掌握就是今年年底恐怕沒有辦法完工是不是這個比較我們再努力再努力好啦這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6644.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6669.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
因為你們現在你們這個司法精神病房的部分你們總共規劃就是183床大概就是北部 南部南部現在已經啟用了東部啟用了 北部啟用了現在中部的30床現在就是原本年底要完工那個當然是我們是能夠趕但是我想但是最我們是希望至少在明年因為時間到我講結論 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6671.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6693.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
這個你們過去大家各界就質疑你們這個司法精神病房本除了這個目前床數不足之外你們維安的人力也不足啦那這部分希望這個有關介護跟維安人力的需求評估還有這個你們目前到底有多少的這個高暴力風險的這些受處分的人他並不是透過司法精神病院 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6694.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6712.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
病房的儲育是在其他機構儲育這些部分請你在一個月還有這個有關於這個司法精神醫療處所剩下兩個月的這個籌備期間要開始收支有沒有具體的一致計畫這目前在其他有沒有具體的一致計畫這部分請你們以書面一個月內提出報告好不好好是好謝謝沈委員那麼接下來請胡適洋委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6728.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6744.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
謝謝主席請部長好有請鄭部長委員早部長法律沒有顏色在民主法治的台灣該怎麼辦就怎麼辦沒有錯嗎這都是我們高度的共識下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6745.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6763.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
面對當今政壇最大的醜聞而且它也釀成了幾乎是世界級的醜聞民主之詞用跟監偷拍的方式來進行政治的針防我也就這個主題在上週五質詢了卓榮泰院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6764.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6783.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
我主張保護閣員的隱私更是保護國家的安全我們應當前端有效的預防而末端如果有不法的人員就要依法來就處徹查我想就是回到法律的規範裡頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6785.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6814.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
但是呢 這個黨狗煤的產業鏈我非常遺憾的說我們立法院的司法法治委員會應當是來精進法治的但是卻被有效不肖的人士來作為利用法治來作為不法行為的掩護我真的很遺憾的要說司法法治委員會幾乎成了這個黨狗煤產業鏈的犯案現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6817.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6845.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
怎麼說呢拿著很多偷拍不正的手段偷拍而來的影像來這裡為難官員質詢您拿著揭發弊案的這種名目事實上是在打擊政敵更甚至讓我回頭來看是不勝唏噓啊我們各黨這麼努力的催生制定了吹哨者保護法 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6846.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6870.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
但是在制定這個法律的催生者之一黃國昌委員他為的居然不是來保護真正良善的吹哨者而恐怕是流於要為不法遏制的這些偷拍吹哨者來築起保護傘所以如果司法法治委員會淪為這樣一個產業鏈 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6874.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6888.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
的犯案現場真的是台灣民主法治的悲哀喔保紐你有被偷拍嗎這我不清楚那你有沒有什麼樣的訊息或是自己有什麼樣的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6891.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6908.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
我想觀園就是在一個就是陸地重工全力以赴之外我想當然有它的一個私生活我想私生活我們就是依照我們的公務人員政理規範或者說我們就注意自己 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6908.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6935.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
合乎法規之外也是要保護個人的生活隱私那這部分我想我們也要避免被受害所以我想這部分都要去做提高警覺對 是您覺得您會不會也是被偷拍的可能對象我不知道因為我上班很正常就是就回到宿舍不然我們還是提高警覺因為就我看來您應當也是極高有可能的來 我們看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
6937.182 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
6956.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
因為這個鉤仔集團以揭秘之名行政治偵訪之時遍佈了內閣的許多的部會郭志輝前經濟部長鄭文燦前行政院副院長陳時中更不用說使者連在文化部長的任內也被偷拍了 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
6956.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
6967.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
而他還跨院紀李俊逸秘書長監察院還有潘孟安他當時是一屆平民只因為他在輔選賴清德總統競選 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
6970.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
6990.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
所以說呢他的對象非常的廣泛而內閣的閣員啊真的是都可能成為被偷拍的對象下一頁而前法務部部長蔡清祥就被偷拍啦而且黃國昌委員還拿著這個偷拍的資訊來這裡質詢您 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
6994.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7011.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
最後被打臉是烏龍的爆料我調出當天您有多為難呢當天是在今年的6月份黃國昌就在這裡我為什麼說司法法治委員會成了這個黨狗煤產業鏈不法集團的犯案現場 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7012.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7028.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
拿著這個不法拍來的偷拍的照片來為難您然後要求你說這個蔡清祥被拍到上班時間去喬聯合再生的官司你記不記得有這樣質詢你還要求你立案調查有沒有有這回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7030.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7054.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
結果事後證明是被打臉嘛蔡清強部長在黃國昌委員秀出來的照片看圖說故事的當天整天都在立法院備詢可是當下你沒有足夠的資訊你在備詢台上面對委員的咄咄逼人我調了逐字稿你當天也很為難的說好 那我們來調查好像還押了時間要一週內啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7056.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7065.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
是 只要拿這種資訊來為難法務部長如果您還真的去調查了幫助了這個不法偷拍的集團 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7068.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7089.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
這成何體統啊所以我在這裡建議未來不分黨派的立法委員包括我也嚴格要求我自己如果有任何立委拿著不知道從哪裡而來來源不明 真偽不實的照片資訊在這裡要求您做這個承諾去做那個調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7090.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7105.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
我認為您都要仔細謹慎的回應否則很可能就淪為這個黨狗煤產業鏈不幸的淪為它的被利用的對象這點應當做到吧謝謝委員提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7106.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7133.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
是藉由媒體的揭發讓我們官員更可以據理力爭如果真有弊案真有不法當然該辦就辦這就是我們的立場但如果是來源不明真偽不實來這裡帶風向的我想部長應當要有這樣子的一個承擔跟背膀該say no就say no我們捍衛的是法治的精神下一頁下一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7134.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7143.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
那現在除了偷拍他可能違反哪些法單純的不法偷拍政治偵訪 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7146.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7167.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
目前涉及的就是剛剛委員寫的就是新法315之一這個是甚至去謀利的部分對不對如果沒有謀利之前涉違法刑法的妨礙秘密還有各自法如果說它涉及境外勢力的話可能還有 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7169.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7195.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
還有國安跟反滲透法的規範那最新的是被揭露了偷拍產業鏈還涉及利用立法委員的幕僚昨天被踢爆的那涉及用非法而且是謀利的方式來進行打擊政敵他可能罪加一等可能會違反哪些法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7196.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7219.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
如果拿來牟利牟利的話他當然有刑法這個委員有寫到315-2的問題嘛那但是會不會成立當然要檢察官去做一個調查嘛所以依證據到哪裡就辦哪裡只是他可能觸犯的法律在這裡我們必須要就法論法那最後要就教於您下一頁法務部公署機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7222.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7241.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
被這位謝姓記者拿去承租潘孟安當時是一介平民喔他當時居住而且是租用的社區的停車場這位謝姓記者利用的是法務部記者室 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7242.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7259.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
的地址去登記租借了這件事情你們有沒有查你們要怎麼辦這部分我們不清楚我們不知道他會我們沒有授權他這樣做是當然不准許也不會授權授權不知道我們也不會不可能授權 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7261.278 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7287.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
所以我們那個處所那只是我們六樓是有一個辦公室我們是提供給記者就所有的司法記者一個公用的空間就像立法院也有記者室一個撰稿或發新聞之用而已那也沒有說這個是你哪有個人哪一個位置我們幫他排行沒有這樣這是一個公用的空間而已這部分我們這件事我們非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7288.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7306.698 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
震驚啊 也能當震怒啊太扯了怎麼會有這種事情所以我們會再加強注意就是去不要再有此類的情形那就這件事情你也沒辦法已經成為繼承事實了他拿去租了好長一段時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7307.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7317.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
他就把那個聯絡地圖寫成我們那個六樓那請問您常常跟這個台北司法記者聯誼會來互動嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7320.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7347.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
我们会有一些的不定期的做一个互动比如我们那个新闻的一些的亮点的发表或者一些查序我们会做互动好我做出这样子的建议如果用不实的资讯去租借做任何的契约文书它应当也涉及了伪造文书吧你们应当还是有告发的必要吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7349.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7370.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
或者是这部分这边我们这公诉罪他也可以主动侦办他是写这个是他的地址是这个有没有涉及到我就去研究一下好不好这很清楚他就用不实的地址他确实伪造文书啊他确实因为你们没有同意他用这个地址去租借这个这个社区的 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7372.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7392.68 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
對不對 社區的停車場啊你們難道沒辦法嗎法律是來保護善良的人但是法務部卻被利用了 濫用了我們無法可辦嗎這部分應該是韋兆文書這邊因為無自作權去冒用他的名義去製作的嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7395.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7404.409 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這個沒有涉及到法務部的一個文書他只是把法務部的那個柱子跟六樓好 所以你現在能做的就是以後提房但房不勝房啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7405.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7426.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
是 這個這邊我們要拜託媒體記者不要我相信啦 這個司法記者聯誼會的多數記者是善良的是秉持媒體的良知的是善盡媒體的第四權的監督義務的但是有發生這樣子的不肖的行為我認為法務部都應當再去查一下有沒有任何 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7427.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7451.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
你們司法記者聯誼會的名目被拿去做了很多不當的行為或者是這個記者室本身也去孫孫看一看有人在那做了什麼樣子的我也不知道會不會有偷拍的東西布在你們法務部裡頭啊提高警覺但是我還是覺得你們相對是比較被動相對也比較 當然你們很無辜嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7452.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7471.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
我希望部長能夠多想想我們要預防因為法務部就是要法治要能夠彰顯的地方各位網友我們再跟會長我們再跟他們做一個溝通就不要把法務部當作他們的不要濫用這個空間濫用的地址也不要濫用這個頭銜是 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7473.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7490.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
我也會幫忙想想否則社會覺得法務部沒辦法有什麼公權可以行使這也覺得說不過去我們再思考一下好 該怎麼辦就怎麼辦不分顏色法律是保護善良人保護善良社會的好 謝謝好 謝謝委員那接下來請王洪威委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7499.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7508.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
對 對不起 先高晶素美委員高晶委員高晶委員好 高晶委員不在那接下來請王紅衛委員謝謝主席我請法務部長部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7521.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7542.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
委員長好 部長早剛才吳思耀委員特別詢問您有關於就是像這個所謂的政治狗仔那麼對於公眾人物或者是對於政治人物他的這個跟拍那您剛剛講說這個會違法違反刑法第315條嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7549.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7570.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
這個要看個案 但是因為如果說這個他的行為有觸及到違反哪一條 新法315-1你要不要念一下315-1的條文是什麼當然315-1他最主要是還是在一定要界定在跟拍他如果說有非公開的這些的私人的活動 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7572.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7586.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
會公開用公職設備去確定那個部長故意斷章取義來315-1條有下列行為之一者處三年以下有期徒刑拘役或三十萬以下 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7587.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7610.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
髮型一 無故利用工具或設備窺視竊踢他人非公開之活動言論談話及身體隱私部位者二 無故以錄音照相錄影或電磁記錄竊錄他人非公開之活動言論談話或身體隱私部位者所以呢他這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7611.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7621.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
這個法律的意旨非常清楚的就是無故就是你今天呢只是沒有任何的原因然後去故意來拍攝它或竊聽它而且是非公開 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7627.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7642.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
那我要講的說其實我們在這一陣子非常明顯的來自於民進黨中央廚房的黨檢媒這次很多的所謂的爆料也是來自於部長口中的淨檢 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7645.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7659.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
那麼這裡面非常明顯的事實上是要利用打擊所謂的一般大家講所謂的政治狗仔但是我們也可以看到現在很多所謂披露的相關的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7662.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7681.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
這個完全跟公共利益無關嗎完全跟利益無關嗎第一個我當然講到跟我自己爆料有關的就是潘孟安先生因為當時我質疑他的是他住的地點是光電業者的董事長的房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7681.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7706.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
而這個光電業者跟他在當時他擔任屏東縣長任內他核准的光電業者就是他核准的光電業者所以這稱之為無故嗎難道即便他當時當時他沒有行政的責任但是他是賴清德總統最重要的競選左右手 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7707.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7723.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
所以這是無故嗎再來後來有一些披露的譬如說也就是監察院副院長李俊逸對不起秘書長李俊逸他利用就是濫用公務車濫用公務車後來他因此而請辭下台沒有錯這也是政治狗仔所提供的 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
7731.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
7739.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
但是請問一下他跟公共利益無關嗎如果無關的話請問李靜怡為何還要請辭已失負責而且後來監察院他們也組成了相關的調查小組那我要舉的這些例子其實很多在過去很多所謂的你認為是政治狗仔所以政治狗仔真的是這樣的罪無可赦嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
7762.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
7788.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我有講過 若我個人 我自己身為公眾人物我相信沒有一個人希望被公拍開沒有一個人希望被跟拍 對不對 一定是這樣子的但是有的時候我們看到不管是媒體也好 狗仔也好利用了這樣的手段作為另外一種監督公眾人物 特別是 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
7789.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
7802.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
特別是行政首長的言行而它確實涉及公共利益所以今天如果我們要一窩蜂想要用法律上完全的杜絕 完全的打壓完全的禁止 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
7803.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
7832.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
其實某一個程度事實上就是箝制了箝制要烏住民眾的眼睛所以我要特別講到這樣的一個狀況我覺得現在可以看得出來民進黨顯然用腥風血雨的方式來做政治針防跟政治鬥爭接下來部長我想請教你一個其實最近很多人在關心跟討論的議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
7834.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
7856.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
就是呢對於這個遺產部分的廢除兄弟姐妹的特留份那最近這個議題呢被討論的很多那麼而且呢在網路上已經有超過6700人來連署復議那我看到法務部也有一些回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
7857.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
7880.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
好像法務部現在也在做相關的研究這個大概必須要去修正民法因為很多人都認為說第一個就是現在的家庭的型態跟過去的家庭型態真的比較不一樣了我看到我們黃市長一直在點頭 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
7882.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
7898.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
就是過去的可能就是大家庭兄弟姊妹大家互相扶持互相照顧但是現在的社會其實有些兄弟姊妹不一定感情很好可能感情不好有的還反目成仇那所以呢就是現在討論就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
7900.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
7923.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
如果尤其沒有子女者他的遺產一定要給兄弟姐妹特留份第一個違反了自己個人的意志另外一個就是跟現在的家庭形態跟社會的結構也不符合所以我想請問一下因為我剛才特別看你們的修法 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
7925.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
7944.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
你們就是今年的立法計畫可是好像並沒有把這個部分納入我不曉得所以可不可以請部長回應一下有關於現在大家這高度熱議的就是廢除兄弟姐妹特留份你們現在的態度是什麼你們的進度是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
7945.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
7959.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
好 謝謝四位委員的確這個是在公共政策及公共網路參與平台這是由民眾來提出來的那這個當然是有遺囑自由說北京人他想要給誰多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
7960.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
7987.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
是不是有特留份那是特留份現在是三分之一是不是要四分之五分之一或者全部都不給那這個都是可以討論的那現在我們這個議題我們已經納入我們本部有一個委託研究案一個研究案來當作一個裡面的一個研究的一個範圍那我想這個還是要管他意見因為意見很多 分層那我想我們去追求一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
7988.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
7994.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
我們再來做一個把這些研究案的結論再來做一個當作修法的一個參考過去曾經提起而且也過去曾經要提出修法只是後來跨界不連續105年那時候對 也就終止了可見這個議題已經是在很多年前就已經被提起所以既然現在這麼多人在討論高度的熱議是不是可以就是說你們可以列入今年的修法的一個方向 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8017.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8042.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
或者是明年上半年的一個修法方向因為這也是我們是把納入一個研究案就是因應高齡化社會檢討修正民法繼承篇的一個研究案我們把它當作一個很重要的一個議題我知道啦我知道你們現在當作一個很重要的一個修法我們當然是盡快因為其實民眾也非常關心這件事情那我們就等學者的專家來做一個研究因為我想這個還要廣大意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8043.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8071.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
是 但是我希望這個時間可不可以因為這個不是一個完全新的議題我剛剛講這部分的研究案的時間我是不是請市長來可以…是 謝謝委員垂詢我們在今年4月份的時候就已經委託研究了那委託研究的成果報告是在今年的年底12月底前會提出那我們在最近這幾個月底都在收集外國立法例那我們是希望說在明年年初我們就啟動修法的工程 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8071.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8098.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
明年年初就會啟動了但是這個議案因為意見非常的分歧有人認為兄弟姊妹是反目成仇的但是有人認為兄弟姊妹是感情深厚的所以這個問題影響很大這為什麼就是說要有他要有遺產自由就是如果我真的覺得我跟哪個兄弟姊妹感情很好而且甚至他都有照顧我的家裡照顧我的身體什麼的等等之類的 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8100.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8119.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
那我就是在遗餐裡面直接在遺珠裡面我全部都給他都可以但現在問題是我根本就跟也許跟兄弟姊妹感情很冷漠我可能更跟某一個朋友或某一個教會某一個協會某一個公益團體我覺得我跟他感情更深厚 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8120.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8143.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
那反而我對不起我就是一定要有個特留分所以我知道這個因為它實施時間也非常非常長所以我至少很高興聽到你們願意在明年初來啟動修法至少讓大家知道就是說你們要有這個修法的進度要修不修要怎麼修就像剛才部長講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8144.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8153.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
是全部都不留呢還是這個特留份的這個比例把它整個的降低我希望在明年初可以有更具體的一個進度好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
8154.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
8158.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
然後另外部長 我們一直在講打詐打詐因為時間關係 今年來我們單月的被詐騙金額仍然是居高不下根本沒有改善的狀況但是我要特別講到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
8176.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
8180.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
我們一直在講就是說最近常常在討論就是什麼樣的案件應該被羈押什麼樣的案件應該被交保什麼樣的案件它的交保金額是多少我們雖然不是檢察官我們雖然不是法官但是我們總是會做一些比較以及社會觀感 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
8196.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
8213.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那我要講的就是最近發生一個事情就是這個集團它也是前三立集團的一個媒體現在它被破獲的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
8214.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
8230.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
接受詐騙集團成立一個台灣網路行銷公司而且假冒揮達執行長黃仁勳成立了一個代操外匯的粉專這個就是當時我們要求一定要杜絕一定要杜絕 而且深惡痛絕的 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
8231.656 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
8233.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
那當然這個事情呢後來意外爆發出案外案就是他除了幫這個詐騙集團來做這個一個假的黃仁勳的代鈔外匯粉專之外呢他呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
8247.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
8271.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
還其實是網軍投旗下有7000多個帳號在上一次的立委選舉裡面幫助現在陶琴董事長的趙振宇來抹黑他的對手邱若驊所以這是兩個案子那我要講的是當然每次政治的案子你們 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
8272.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
8301.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
部長大概回答千篇一律啦但是我現在要跟你討論的是詐騙因為他被逮捕被破獲是因為他是詐騙集團詐騙金額數千萬元交保金額二十萬元部長我要講就是說像這樣一個案例這是最近發生的九月份發生案例交保金額二十萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
8303.552 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
8330.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
你如何讓我們幸福今天我們司法單位真的有打詐的決心還是因為看到他竟然是幫著趙正宇在抹黑邱若驊因為這樣子而心存了一些忌憚所以給他交保金額才20萬當然其他的這些詐騙你看我列出很多都是跟詐騙相關的 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
8333.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
8346.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
交保金額15萬20萬部長這樣子的一個狀況你覺得社會大眾會認為我們司法單位真的有心要打仗嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
8348.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
8367.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
我想每個案件的案情不一樣那也剛才委員提到這個什麼五口青山這個已經收押已經裁壓了那我想因為還有證據上的問題證據上的問題當然是我們檢查過一個偵查計畫它不一定就一開始就有辦法上因為證據可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
8368.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
8396.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
那你們每次都說很怕串供可是你20萬先讓他交保啦每個案件那個不一樣那個串供的話當然一定我們又發現的確有串供的事實部長我在這邊特別指出所以當然跟委員會有關係那個詐欺的那部分我在檢察長會議我另外各種場合我們希望就是說對這些詐團要盡量要去一個案件要盡量去我是案件普遍性的要申請羈押要申請羈押 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
8397.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
8425.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
尤其是集團性的對不對 集團性的這部分我們當然是希望就是說也要求檢察官這部分要盡量用羈押因為這不能再讓他在社會去流竄再騙更多的人所以說這個羈押的確是讓這些詐團能夠氣焰能夠給他一個重大的壓制的一個非常好的說法因為這樣才能夠辦出整個往向上溯源才有辦法去追求公辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
8427.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
8455.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
部長因為時間到了這個會期我們仍然會繼續的關注有關於打炸的問題打炸當然好多個環節只是我今天講出這個案例這個案例我一看我又覺得說這個是不是太扯了跟我們的社會觀感跟期待實在太遙遠個案我沒辦法去做一個處理但是我通案我會要求要求再整個一個加強我這邊列給你好幾個案子不是個案好幾個案子都是跟打炸相關但是呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
8456.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
8477.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
這個有的交保金額實在是少得可憐 好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝王委員那接下來請羅志強委員發言那麼在羅委員詢答完畢之後我們就休息五分鐘接著請羅委員進行詢答主席有請部長請部長委員早 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
8486.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
8513.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
部長好你知道苗栗中秋連假發生了隨機殺人事件這個你知道嗎這個媒體有廣大報導那這個嫌犯已經被申請羈押獲准了他刺傷兩名女童跟一位見義勇為的正義哥靈性男子那剛開始靈性男子跟女童有一位女童那一度命危送到加護病房 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
8514.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
8528.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
但是關鍵是什麼關鍵是這位邱姓男子他其實在十年前的同一地點砍殺了四個人我想請教一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
8530.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
8544.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
林楠的女兒曾經針對這個事件向政府公開呼籲司法改革請問部長你有看到這位正義哥林姓楠子的女兒的呼籲嗎有掌握了解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
8545.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
8571.695 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
我想這個對這個曾毅哥的這個建立勇為他身受重傷我們是覺得我們祝他早日康復對這些的議局我們非常的一個欽佩那我想司法的改革是永不止盡的我這樣講啦我覺得部長你應該是沒看到因為你跟我一貫看到的部長一樣你就是開始天空盤旋盤旋轉轉轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
8574.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
8603.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
林楠的女兒說她從來沒有想過新聞裡的隨機殺人事件會發生在自己家人身上她希望可以真正的落實實行因為像這種人吸毒二犯已經沒有教化可能放出來會再次對無辜的民眾安全造成威脅她要請政府跟執政黨正視並改善治安問題隨機砍人的事件頻傳這就是司法制度不健全跟社會安全網破裂所造成的後果 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
8604.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
8629.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
这一次是我爸爸下一次又会是谁他认为凶手在十年前第一次犯案如果就能够重刑相待的话今天悲剧就不会发生了他的父亲也不会受到这么严重的伤害他也讲到他的父亲前胸后背各中一刀伤及内脏及横革膜到现在还呼吸困难 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
8630.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
8653.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
這樣的痛苦 凶手永遠無法理解而身為家人又只能承受這種傷害跟陰影所以我要想請教部長你聽完這位正義哥女兒的陳述你有沒有什麼想法想跟她說跟社會大眾說這個凶險的確是非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
8655.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
8681.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
可惡 他在隨即殺人而且光天化日之下那我想這個我們已經訴查嚴辦這個已經受壓偵辦了那我們對這個行為我們也是不能饒恕所以我們很有關心的像這種的我們修法在法治上我們也把這故意殺人或者殺人未遂能夠處十年以上有期徒刑的這些我們以後判刑我們是 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
8682.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
8711.279 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
在修法是不給他假釋的一個機會所以我們想讓這些在法治上能夠對這些行為謝謝部長我們國民黨立法院黨團也提出某些死刑就是某些無期徒刑的狀況非常嚴重的基本上是不得假釋所以這是我們的立場但我要跟部長說今天真的很多的一些受害者 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
8712.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
8739.573 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
有些受害者抱歉他没办法讲话了为什么有些受害者没办法讲话了为什么这个我想委员问到一个很核心的问题因为如果被害人因为生命是不可恢复的损害所以受害者他如果说丧失了生命我想这个我们一定在法律上我们绝对是我跟部长说这位秋南他已经不是第一次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
8740.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
8768.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
10年前他跟鄰居吵架找不到鄰居拿剪刀就到超商攻擊路人跟警察他自己都承認他說他殺紅眼要把氣出掉那最後呢依殺人未遂罪判8年8個月定宴服安刑依然是治安的炸彈可是我要跟部長講一個更嚴重的事情我看了真的到現在我都覺得無法接受無法理解我想請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
8771.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
8797.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
詐欺集團關61個人嚴不嚴重嚴不嚴重這個當然是很可惡啊這應該是破天荒了吧我相信部長我們台灣的治安史上有被關過61個人嗎有嗎有被囚禁61個人嗎有這個歷史記錄過嗎沒有吧空前詐欺集團沒有空前嘛對不對令人髮指多髮指來 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
8801.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
8818.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
2022年的台版柬埔寨事件祖賢 蘭道 杜楠等人在桃園淡水關61個人除了收身搶劫財務嘴巴上掃毛巾 上手銬綁束帶關進三坪大的小房間 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
8820.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
8845.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
賭打電擊未讀一人跳樓輕生一人休克死亡一人未讀自死通通被棄屍荒野騙取將近4億元的不法所得好來囉高等法院最後判處主嫌杜南等人無期徒刑我真的我覺得我今天是這些受害人我想請問部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
8847.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
8875.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
如果嚴重到關61個人虐殺3個人都只是無期徒刑我真不知道台灣怎麼還會有死刑呢還有死刑的存在嗎來囉 更重要的是什麼警方最近才發現今年8月今年8月才突然發現你知道死的不止3個人吧當年那個案子死不止3個人吧部長知道嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
8877.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
8904.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
這個事情我覺得部長你一定要知道因為真的太嚴重了你都剛剛講是死上空前的台灣真的沒有發生過關這麼多人然後直接在裡面虐殺的事情你知道死了不只三個人嗎部長你知道還有哪些往生者嗎部長知道嗎你不知道嘛你不知道嘛 我告訴你台中警方破獲詐團 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
8906.321 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
8933.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
結果裡面有一個犯案小弟叫志白他說當年的台版柬埔災案死的不止三個還有第四個有一個38歲的零性男子第一天進去就被打死了一進去就被打死到現在我要告訴大家請問部長冰山一角你看三年前的案子只查出三個 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
8935.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
8957.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
受害的死者現在結果三年後發現原來不止三個人那我想請問你到底多少人到底關了多少人到底殺了多少人真的知道嗎真的知道嗎根本不知道今天我在這邊為什麼要講這些事情我剛才一而再再而三的講為什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
8960.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
8985.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
我们现在大法官实质废死判决已经生效了没有 现在还是有判死刑的案件有告诉你来 部长你到现在都不敢跟我讲一句话我告诉你什么叫实质判死什么叫实质废死实质废死 请问你除了赖金德今天要平息民怨执行的一个死刑犯现在多少死刑犯还没执行请问你 你告诉我已经两年过了36 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
8988.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9002.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
还有36个非常谢谢你你这么云淡风轻这么自信满满还有36个什么时候执行这部分这部分又要看什么刑事诉讼程序在审非常上述看很多我知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9004.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9019.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
幫你回答了嘛 我回答錯了嗎這個一定要照法律的規定來說非常好啊 我當然知道你我太了解你了 你回答就是這些然後你還在幫大法官洗地我告訴你 來我跟你講沒關係 我告訴你你跟我已經講很多遍了 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9020.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9028.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
大法官今天至少對死刑判處設下很嚴格的門檻你不否認吧但是目前事務上還是有沒有設下如果說這個當然是來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來來 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9040.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9067.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
既然這樣哪有實質的廢死我問你嘛你是不是跟我講地方法院還是有判死刑案件所以沒有實質廢死嘛你亂講就這個嘛簡單嘛而且實務上的實例上不是告訴這才是來我跟你講沒關係你要拗我隨便你拗我沒有拗啊這是法院的判決來來來我數字打臉你我用數字打臉你請問過世20年平均有多少殺人犯多少每年平均 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9068.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9083.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我這目前沒有資料部長 你當然不知道 因為你不關心啦我不是不關心平均每年150位我告訴你 我幫你解答來 請問平均判死比例大概是多少判死刑大概是多少比例2%啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9089.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9118.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
還有越來越低的情形來2000年到2015年民進黨執政之前你知道平均每年平均有多少人三審判死三審判死來請問多少人每年平均多少人三審判死你還是不知道第三個不知道3.25位三審判死來請問民進黨執政之後2016年到現在平均每年多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9119.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9148.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
三審判死多少多少你還是不知道0.33位請問每年三審判死的人數減少多少我幫你回答你還是不知道減少九成來這就是民進黨送給台灣司法改革的成果啦我直接跟你預告我跟你預告這還不會是最低的大法官實質廢死的判決出來之後設下八道誰的 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9150.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9178.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
這個判決死刑的高門檻0.33不會是最低啦還會更低啦你跟我講地方法院判有什麼用啊上去上去上去就不見了啦就算判到最後你也不執行死刑也一樣不見啦委員那個我想我告訴你立法執行那我想是既定的但是程序同時要走程序部長我告訴你不要再拿程序當藉口你是法務部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9179.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9207.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
刑事司法政策有你的職責有你的職責我講的不是個案了我講的不是個案了你講依法執行叫個案所以那個法官那個我講的是司法今天你有司法立法的所謂的司法的一個法治責任法務部長不要跟我講你沒有這個責任喔對啊我講的對啊所以你不會反駁啊但我要跟你講今天我回頭要講部長我對你今天態度非常的不滿意 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9208.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9229.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
你今天如果心裡有一點點柔軟性 你去看看台版柬埔寨案的那些被害者 往生者你會願意為他們站出來講話 跟羅志強一樣沉冤埋血 已經不能說話了這個委員你說人命的損失的確是無可恢復的 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9231.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9243.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
最大的一個損害我想我們就站在一個為人伸冤的為死者說話的一個角度我想這個我們檢察官也就在一陣我告訴你那些口頭的這些悲憫是沒有辦法讓人起死回生的 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
9254.775 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
9272.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
你這些所謂口頭的悲憫你還在幫大法官洗地的這種態度我絕對沒有幫大法官洗地沒關係你不認同是你的事情我告訴你剛剛的回答就在幫大法官洗地我講的每一個數字是錯的嗎你回去 又失誤打臉我啊我跟你講 我告訴你我今天這件事就和上去就這麼簡單因為我沒有辦法接受我沒有辦法接受我剛剛還在最後一個結論告訴你 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
9284.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
9304.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
大法官實質廢死的判決什麼叫實質廢死就是加高判處死刑的門檻就叫實質廢死他讓今天的死刑判決越來越困難降低了九成不說他的判決憲法判決出來之後死刑的判決只會更少 不會更多更重要的是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
9306.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
9323.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
你今天令人髮指到已經是慘絕人寰死上所無的台版柬埔案虐殺4個人虐殺4個人關61個人不罰所得4億元都不能判死有啦都有判 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
9324.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
9336.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那個高雄高峰院二審也有良性的行為來來來 你等他等你你等你執行你告訴我你等你執行死刑完你再跟我講這些我告訴你部長部長二審啊我剛剛講的是三審的數據你要跟我講二審你跟我講地方法院這不是詭辯 什麼是詭辯這不是洗地 什麼是洗地 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
9352.453 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
9355.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
認住了嘛你 又傻了三秒鐘我剛剛問題是三審 你跟我講一審 二審你的幕僚不盡責啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
9363.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
9382.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
第一個二審三審的給你這個判不判審我們要尊重法院的判決來了來了厲害了被我抓包開始惱羞成怒我沒有惱羞成怒被我抓包惱羞成怒拿資料想要糊弄大家我沒有我質詢講就三審我質詢講就三審你拿一審二審跟我講什麼最後還是一句話部長我不是衝著你個人來 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
9390.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
9414.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
你真的不需要幫大法官洗地跟你講 真的不需要今天以法務部長身分告訴大家說你也不能認同大法官這種決定因為他今天就侵犯了受害者伸冤的權利死者不能講話 我羅志強幫他講話家屬今天正義不得伸張我今天幫家屬伸張正義 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
9416.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
9435.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我一路走來就始終如一我也這件事會繼續盯下去就這麼簡單結果我跟你講你們偉大的民進黨政府跟官員們連我們立法院提出來的反廢死公投都要沒收跟你沒關係跟你沒關係跟你沒關係我講的不是你 我講的中選會你不用緊張我現在要罵的是中選會中選會不在 我不用罵你 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
9442.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
9467.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
今天我就問你部長你也是法律守門人公投法哪一條規定今天中選會可以不辦立法院通過的公投舉一個條文給我聽聽看這個我沒辦法幫中選會來回答這個問題你賴清德愛將你怎麼會去打同僚呢我知道啊 懂啊 了解明白啊法務部長就是法律守門人 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
9469.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
9494.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
你跟我講你不知道那你當什麼法務部長法律條文清清楚楚明明白你是法律的你不會不知道你只不敢講謝謝你好 謝謝羅委員在這邊也提醒部長可能之後委員全巡的時候盡量不要用比較不禮貌的語氣去反駁委員好 拜託 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
9496.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
9503.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
在依照之前的宣告我們現在休息五分鐘五分鐘之後再開始 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
9930.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
9936.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
好 現在繼續開會喔那麼我們接下來請福昆齊委員質詢主席請部長好 有請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
9959.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
9987.564 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
部長long time no see部長今天要特別請部長本一職權針對卓榮泰卓院長在花蓮發生這麼大的一個驗射壺潰壩事件超過可能超過20人罹難的這麼大的一個災情8000多位災民 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
9990.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10018.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
23號發生 9月23號 9月24號部長到 院長到花蓮就聲明要來查查相關的失職的責任部長部長本席在這裡期許部長能夠很務實的查核清楚面對啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10020.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10048.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
可能超過20位不幸罹難的這些鄉親亡靈啊 面對這些亡靈希望部長本於職責本於良知能夠把過程啊能夠查查非常清楚能夠水落石出本席在這裡啊就這段時間所接觸到所有相關的政府作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10049.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10077.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
我們在這裡照時間序大概順一下本席在這裡講我相信法務部昨天也看了本席質詢卓院長雖然態度很惡劣但是本席把所有關鍵點跟實際的證據都已經提出來了在這裡再請部長就所有查核的工作務必要公正 務必要查明 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10079.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10107.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
從9月21號美國發現有這個驗射壺9月26號陽明交大也發現有這個驗射壺農業部成立了這個監測應變小組接下來就要去了解他到底有什麼因應其極的作為當事情發生整個光復鄉親華人 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10110.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10138.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
上面這麼大的一個驗射壺當時啊大概一千多萬噸一千多萬噸的水一千多萬噸立方的水在上面然後立方不斷的提出立法院也針對驗射壺要處理台灣過去不是沒有處理驗射壺的經驗非常多次然後在8月13號 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10141.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10166.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
立法院通過的丹納斯颱風600億重建預算裡面把馬太安西驗射壺已經放進去到時農業部長清楚回答沒有積極的危險好那本席就從8月13號之前在他說還沒有危險之前回溯到8月11號8月11號 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10172.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10187.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
由花蓮縣政府 光復鄉公所經濟部 農業部共同開會針對堰塞湖事件當時已經從7月的1200萬方變成6000萬方就已經再三提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10200.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10227.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
經濟部 水利署必須要把兩個馬太安溪的開口題要把它補上強度要夠告訴經濟部我們看一下農業部的報告農業部正式提出的報告我們看一下馬太安溪的開口題馬太安溪的開口題 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10228.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10251.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
馬太安溪的開口題這兩個開口題這整個報告是完全拿農業部的報告本期在上面沒有多畫一條線上面的線跟標示全部是農業部標示出來的馬太安溪從上游流下來就是這個藍色的水線旁邊兩個開口題就是農業部認為會從這兩個題從這裡一流進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10262.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10285.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
而且今年農業部為什麼提出來因為在去年11月的康瑞颱風就是從這裡淹進去已經從那裡淹進去了一個颱風就淹進去了更不要說現在上游有9100萬噸的立方的水在那裡農業部上一張農業部的圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10293.442 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10303.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
已經告訴他會從那裡進去8月11號的會議決議這邊強度 請經濟部補強強度要夠如果強度不夠的話水就會從那裡一煙進去剛剛 那張圖剛剛那張圖 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10322.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10347.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
這邊這兩個缺口進去的地方就是佛祖街就是整個光復市區就從這裡進去從空照圖我們也看得很清楚就從這裡進去所有的調查務必屬實而且這是有會議決議並且有錄音檔現在地方政府跟中央部會開會都要有錄音 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10349.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10376.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
以策安全都有錄音當時就講這兩個缺口一定要補一定要把它補住要有強度我們再看一下賴總統到花蓮不得了前進協調所的報告前進協調所的報告說15天10天還是15天就已經完成了5米高的堤防 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10377.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10402.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
10月4號災後10月4號完成5米高的堤防10月11號還要完成表面強化防水作業那為什麼8月11號已經告訴他都不做因為什麼災後突然知道要做而且一口氣做了2800多米那災前為什麼不做會議有決議為什麼不做 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10406.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10432.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
工人有沒有廢植植物再過來8月11號法務部要資料的話縣政府應該都會給都有錄音檔還有會議決議8月11號要求大家協商以後農業部同意因為農業部在監測在監測這個驗測服 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
10438.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
10462.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
當夜色湖只要只要一流一流還不是潰壩只要一流就必須要發海嘯警報結果發了沒有完全沒有發為什麼沒有發海嘯警報等到賴總統來花蓮前進協調所第一頁 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
10469.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
10493.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
紀連城指揮官 政委報告第一頁就講 驗社福的警戒發布驗社福的警戒發布就這張圖這全部是行政院自己的資料就必須要發海嘯警報 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
10499.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
10520.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
行政院自己的資料就說要發海嘯警報8月11號花蓮縣政府關乎相公所農業部經濟部的會議決議因為政府只要一流就要發海嘯警報這是中央做的圖明5秒停5秒反覆9遍85秒一個run 85秒要不斷的去發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
10527.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
10549.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
結果艷澀湖潰壩沒有任何人民聽到聲音因為農業部沒有響海嘯警報這個都在8月11號的會議當中都講得非常的清楚不只有會議的決議還有錄音檔 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
10554.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
10570.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
地方政府現在跟中央部會開會每一場都要錄音可能以後還要錄影接下來部長本席剛剛講這兩個決議您了解了嗎你可以再查核沒有關係可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
10572.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
10588.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
這部分委員關心的這個委員提到是不是有疏忽的一個問題我想這個花蓮地檢署在9月24號都已經主動來分案來做一個就是卓榮泰院長到花蓮發飆 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
10591.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
10616.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
發飆說要就職 下午地檢署就出動了那個9月20日 因為第一時間第一時間發你地檢署就很關注這個問題了然後就是已經主動分案了那當然會看 會仔細調查看各環節有什麼樣的一個疏失的一個問題我想這個今年分案 我就對各案我就不表示意見了我就不表示意見了北溪請你查明清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
10617.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
10646.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
那我想這個 這個剛才那個召委 那個總裁有提到就是這個我想各個環節的應該調的資料應該做一個查證我現在發你記者書 應該他會本席在這裡講就是不要這個事實又被吃案吃掉 在這裡再讓你看一下什麼叫做土石流及大規模崩塌防災疏散避難作業規定第三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
10649.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
10670.344 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
第二項第一款疏散避難的路線還有收容所的選定要農業部 人民會國防部 經濟部 交通部衛福部 內政部來輔導選定所有的避難收容計畫這個會沒有開過有開過請法務部 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
10679.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
10702.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
請行政委把會議記錄拿出來600人疏散的疏散計畫有沒有8600人的疏散計畫有沒有還不止第三條第二項第一款還有第三項第四款 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
10703.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
10726.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
所有收容所的整備工作要由五個部會來開會來輔導什麼時候開過會資料在哪裡本席已經把明確的資料在這裡公開再來這是法律規定再來撤離計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
10730.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
10757.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
撤離計畫 執行單位我想昨天部長也在現場本席講得很清楚經濟部的水災危險顯示地區疏散撤離標準作業中央督導 地方政府督導第五條第二項第五款第五條第二項第六款 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
10758.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
10784.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
撤離的單位是哪個單位部長知道嗎負責強制撤離的單位是哪個單位這不就依法令的該誰去主辦的就是要去做一個處理不是嘛 本席問你您看過法律法條了沒有嘛或是災害防救法撤離作業的第十條撤離作業由鄉鎮公所負責這是法律明文規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
10787.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
10792.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
但是你們有交過鄉鎮公所整個撤離計畫嗎行政院有嗎這七個部會有嗎再過來謠言遍地災害防救法 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
10805.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
10832.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
對於謠言法辦的事情請問法務部現在有辦了哪一條災區的謠言嗎 有沒有這部分應該有發你地檢署來做一個處理我想這個他已經分案在做一個偵辦的而且這個是一個他案的一個所以所有的有些不法的我想這個都可以在這個案件來做一個處理因為法務部必須在第一時間以正視聽 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
10834.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
10861.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
讓所有的謠言不會雞飛塵世法務部應該要像誰說了陳菊怎麼樣一天就查辦出來了誰說了行政院怎麼樣幾個小時就抓人了誰說賴總統不到半天就逮人了現在災區 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
10864.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
10877.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
是比這些官員都還要重要你的他事案什麼時候能查辦出來請盡快跟本委員會提出查辦的實際的狀況謝謝部長 可以嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
10881.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
10897.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
這個偵查的內容這個我們尊重檢察官的偵查計畫因為偵查不公開所以我沒辦法去做一個偵查計畫也可以送來沒有關係偵查計畫我不能做也沒有關係你說你能公佈的公佈出來就好嘛對不對 進度很簡單嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
10899.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
10926.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
淨檢消息比你們都還清楚嘛要講那個啦對不對怎麼不要講這個淨檢有哪一個消息他不知道這個我不要去提那些不要提那些那還是我們要去淨檢打聽部長我們盡快把這些事情盡快把這些事情回憶名義好不好該查的要查在我們的權管之內我們會來做一個處理謝謝該你們查的盡快 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
10930.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
10953.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
謝謝副委員那也請部長這裡因為畢竟這次的災情很嚴重然後所以就眾所矚目的案件有關於謠言的部分要請地檢署要多積極的去調查去處理好那麼接下來我們請賴時保委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
10964.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
10969.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
謝謝主席 各位先進有請鄭部長好 有請部長委員 委員好你好這個你知道 你知不知道一個一個通訊軟體叫叫什麼Telegram你知道這個吧知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
10987.045 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
11009.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
那麼近三年我們看到裁判就是裁判書裡面三萬件就從地院裡面出來的詐欺相關的案件兩萬七就詐欺的案件高達九成之多那速報部他只有列管Meta就是FBLINE Google Tiktok |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
11010.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
11029.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
那這一部分來講有關於這裡的軟體叫Telegram這個犯罪利用其實是非常高的有些人說你看底下我那個下標說台灣人很少用這裡的所謂的Telegram其實大家揭秘說老司機 詐騙集團的最愛就是這一款的AppTelegram那我就請問你 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
11036.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
11056.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
檢調在這裡所謂的這個要打詐的配合新興科技檢調扮演什麼角色我們在詐偽的條例我們在打詐就是國家隊還有我們第三起的一個行動綱領那我們是扮演一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
11058.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
11084.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
懲詐的一個角色懲罰的角色那剛才委員問的這是屬於蘇發部在做行政的監管那是前面的後面還是你們的後面是你們的後面是你們的對啊你們偵辦起訴你們都是你們那麼要透過打詐這個新興科技與電信金融機構合作建立檢舉與查詢管道 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
11085.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
11107.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
基本上是你們的責任 對吧這部分我們有建立一個一個調取資料的一個沒有 我現在就問白話文啦現在老百姓很可憐了這樣常常隨便就被騙特別是通訊軟體一下子上LINE 上Telegram就被騙我這裡啊 我是選區選出來的我這裡就就來了 你要看常常的老闆 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
11113.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
11125.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
這個退休的夫妻被騙了一兩千萬幾乎他的退休全部都不見了這個也求恕無門啦你能不能告訴我 你能不能掌握資料 就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
11126.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
11153.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
現在來講現在大概一年被榨棄的大概一千億左右一千億數字很大喔數字非常大喔請問拿回來多少你知道嗎被榨棄的拿回來多少你有沒有概念去年查扣的去年查扣是一百多億今年是八十幾億到現在為止所以大概一成啦時間要多久時間要多久才能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
11156.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
11162.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
這部分其實委員關心的就是應該是網路上投資詐騙的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
11163.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
11191.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
那其實這部分的權管那行政權管是速發部那我們他管前面啦後面還是你們管嘛那這邊其實都有在做網路巡邏如果所有發現這個投資詐騙的在平台的話像這種Telegram的這個其實可以檢舉可以用平台檢舉因為速發部其實他而且他可以做一個下架嘛他可以有權力下架可是他就不會下架他就說一定是你們來你們講他就下架要你們來 Trigger你們扣板機啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
11194.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
11207.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
他是這樣子講的他是有接到一個檢舉或是因為辦案單位他有巡邏他等於說要檢調你跟他合訂了他就下架所以他不敢直接去下架的啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
11208.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
11230.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
但是跟我們報告其實蘇發部其實有開發一個系統就是網路詐騙通報的查詢網那當然是可以讓我們去我請問你啊那個如果我們上你們的網站法務部檢調檢查體系或者調查局能不能看到一些反詐欺的相關的資料可不可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
11231.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
11251.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
這部分是一個宣導的宣導的我們其實有出書還有一些的短影音的去做一個宣導不夠啦你們要把update的資料我剛剛說過你也講了數字嘛大概拿回來一成嘛時間都超過一年以上嘛而且我的事實上我接到幾個曾經的人他們到最後都不了了之就沒有了啦好 我們來看啦這個有一個民調啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
11259.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
11282.138 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
叫做2024精確民調公司他做一個台灣司法公正時事議題調查對於民眾對於檢察官公正度相當純理不太有信心的31.6%非常沒信心的20.2%所以兩個起來等於是過半的台灣老百姓是對於我們的檢調 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
11283.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
11311.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
我們的檢察官 特別檢察官能不能公正起訴能不能夠不要選擇性辦案不要看銀色辦案老百姓其實是很憂慮的過半的老百姓是不買單的就是你看到這個數字特別是因為我時間到了我就先簡短的就是請教你這是我要問的重點所有的武器都在檢察官手上要約談約談 要搜索都搜索 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
11313.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
11333.087 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
為什麼起訴以後你還可以不斷的抗告這個抗告的權利在有些國家根本檢察官你起訴以後他就跟他沒有關係了就是由法院來決定怎麼會說這個法院判了以後檢察官抗告一次 兩次 三次 四次不斷的這樣子這個你要不要講一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
11333.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
11362.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
這個民調這部分我們都尊重各界的一個意見當作我們那個難道你不會難過嗎 過半的人不相信你們檢察官呢這個民調以前就各家民調都有這差不多是不是啊那我們是要求檢察官在辦案一定要嚴守正常的法律程序公正之法剛才委員有提到的我們不可能隨便去搜索 不能隨便去羈押因為這個搜索羈押沒有 我的重點在於說 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
11363.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
11390.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
抗告 抗告對 防暴完畢有抗告為什麼可以一而再 再抗告這是一個監督法官的一個機制如果說以被害人來講如果被告如果說在起訴疑審的話或者在生壓的話不准那如果說沒有給檢討一個抗告的機會那萬一這個是會中犯有一種人犯的別忘了啊那因為前面都是你的權利檢察官要搜索就搜索 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
11392.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
11414.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
這個是法官保留的沒有錯 法官同意啦但是是你們發動的啊你們要資料 什麼資料都在手上結果居然一審 如果是第一審被法院把你打臉的話你怎麼有臉在慷慨呢你就不要輕率起訴嘛請問一下我們檢察官起訴的定罪率多高起訴以後定罪率多高9乘5日本咧 99點幾啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
11421.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
11433.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
99點幾啊老實講這個檢察官如果起訴又不定罪的話檢察官是要受一定的制約機制啊你不要亂起訴一通啊我想這個限制抗告權這個絕對是會削弱這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
11437.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
11463.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
監督法院的一個功能那我想這個國家新化權是沒辦法做一個實現的我想這個對社會公益是沒有幫助的你看一下吧你看社會外面怎麼看你們就譬如說政治性辦案你譬如說我這邊講譬如說很簡單檢察官都是法律人我沒辦法去指導檢察官好啦 這個細節因為我時間到了誰再給你扯 下一支再給你扯 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
11464.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
11491.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
譬如說台南的光顛案到現在為止是辦了踢踢踏踏的就明顯是政治性辦案嘛台南的光顛案那個都有申請要做的其實那個抗告後來法院又重新再採訪這再延壓了齁那個包括那個藏匿人犯那個都辦了齁謝謝委員的指導好 謝謝部長不過就是剛剛賴委員所提的這個問題非常重要據我了解依照你們自己內部的作業規定其實也是有限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
11492.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
11506.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
檢察官的抗告這個部分的話請你們回去再演繹好那接下來呢我先處理會議時間上午會議的時間繼續進行到所有登記發言委員詢答結束為止好那麼接下來請林楚英委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
11518.463 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
11547.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
謝謝主席主席有請法務部長請法務部部長委員好部長好第一次在司法法治委員會質詢您想透過您的質詢來釐清一些事情法務部是我們的行政機關這個行政機關的算是最高的負責人就是部長您是嗎對 我是部長好 那麼請問一下法務部的組成有哪些成員 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
11548.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
11571.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
法部就是就是我們內部的組織是是是我們內部的組織有各四處嘛對那另外還有部外的機關啦所以今天都有來對就是各機關法案調查局 廉政署還有執行署 矯正署等然後還有包括一些公務人員法醫研究所 司法官學院就是這些還有檢查機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
11572.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
11596.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
好 所以在您剛剛所講的這些機關當中一定要不就是檢察官辦就是一些公務人員甚至於是約聘僱的人員 對嗎是好 那麼記者屬於法務部的成員嗎記者不是 記者是一個媒體好 記者是媒體其實記者就是一個充其量 我一樣這樣講因為本席也是媒體出身比如說 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
11598.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
11623.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
法務部有新聞或者是其他的司法機關有新聞他就去跑新聞所以說為了讓記者採訪方便會提供記者室給記者使用是嗎是的言下之意記者他並不是法務部的成員但是記者竟然可以糾戰鵲巢可以拿法務部的地址來作為通訊地址甚至於來簽訂合約嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
11627.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
11656.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
這部分我們有發生說謝姓記者的簽訂合約的事這部分我們沒有授權也不知道因為本席喔在這個潘孟安秘書長被假新聞爆料的過程當中非常清楚的跟我的鄰居也拿到了這一張合約上面的地址台北市中正區重慶南路一段130號6樓部長清楚這個地址是什麼地址嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
11657.074 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
11670.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
這個六樓是我們今天辦公室是提供給司法記者不是給個人使用它是一個公用的一個區域所以因為司法記者蠻多的應該有一百多應該有部長您看這個合約啦它只有通訊地址那就寫明了謝信恩去跟人家簽約的時候就用了法務部記者室的地址我認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
11684.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
11706.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
我不用法來跟你講而是您認為這樣的事情一旦公布之後法務部不用有態度嗎所以言下之意以後我只要是記者我就可以用法務部的地址來任意做使用本席是記者出來我當然知道記者在採訪的過程中需要一個空間來發稿這是一種服務也是一種互相的體諒尤其是平面的記者多數會在現地發稿電視台的記者 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
11710.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
11735.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
才會需要回到他們的公司來做發稿甚至於有的時候採訪時間比較早比較晚 耽誤了用餐時間你說要叫個Uber 叫個外送沒有問題但是像這種狗仔記者就用法務部的記者室來承租車位來做監控甚至於潛入地下室裡面去拍這樣一張地下室的照片 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
11737.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
11765.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
回過頭來法務部認為這樣的做法可以嗎如果法務部現在沒有態度未來就是昭告天下最危險的地方就是最安全的地方法務部重慶南路一段130號不管幾樓我都可以送東西進去所有的違禁品我可以收所有的不法物件我可以在這裡用這個地址來使用您身為法務部的最高負責人 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
11766.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
11773.204 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
一個不是這個單位的組成份子可以如此使用嗎可以如此訂約嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
11775.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
11802.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
這部分這是他個人的行為那我們是非常的他用以法務部的這個六樓的當作他簽約地址這種表示這個是很不應該這個很不應該那我想這是一個當然這個是我們沒有去介入但是我們希望我們也跟那個記者聯繫會也共有一就有二所以未來如果沒有一個明確的界定 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
11803.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
11831.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
這已經是昭告天下以後就可以這樣處理喔我只要是法務部記者聯誼會的記者我就可以這樣做嗎那未來謝信恩凱思國際現在因為王逸川去提告了那麼當時不起訴就是因為說凱思國際是一個媒體所以媒體可以跟監可以跟著王逸川不斷地去拍攝他的私人的照片現在凱思國際如果回聘謝信恩 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
11832.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
11857.755 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
那麼請問謝信江可不可以再度回到記者室成為記者然後甚至於繼續用法務部的地址而且甚至於可以入無人之境請問可以嗎這部分他那個記者的那個我們出入的那個已經註銷了也就是說他現在沒辦法進來了剛剛委員有提到說他如果說到另外一家就取得那個記者的這些的資格是不是可以進來我想我們這邊在因為我們那個司法記者不是只有法務部的司法記者 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
11861.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
11887.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
它是很多的司法機關包括司法院台北地院相關的這些司法機關的記者我想我們再邀集這些相關的司法機關我們來研商看看做如何的一個管理來加強這些管理我的時間已經到了我只是把謝謝主席給我最後做結論就是我把問題點出來我希望這個漏洞亡羊補牢要補起來好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
11888.949 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
11894.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
是 謝謝那也把你們後續商量的結果或結論讓本席知道好 謝謝好 謝謝林委員因為現在我們這個市委會希望能夠嚴格的遵守整個會議質詢的時間好 那麼接下來接下來先請莊瑞雄委員發言 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
11917.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
11922.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
謝謝我們召委有請我們法務部政部長好 請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
11924.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
11948.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
我們矯正署 矯正署署長也上來一下好不好委員好部長好 辛苦我想今天幾個問題又要來救教了這幾天尤其是今天我看到在本會裡面的一些質詢似乎也充斥著好像是這個矯正無用論這個是聽了讓人是很大的一個感慨 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
11949.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
11967.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
其實台灣的一個治安就是說到底好還是不好國人當然可以有不同的看法立法院當然有監督的一個職責更是要來督促但是你從2025年你全球這146個國家裡面國家安全的指數評比裡面去看 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
11967.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
11987.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
台灣還在世界的第四暴力犯罪跟竊盜的一個比例其實這個比例還算低十萬的居民舉發犯罪從1207起裡面是2.03起的一個兇殺案這當然是在講說我們這個社會的一個治安其實控制的倒不是像外界所講的這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
11988.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
11998.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
但是當然在八月份的時候澳洲這樣的一個智庫的一個統計似乎我們又有一點退步了那這個都值得我們去警惕的一個地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
11999.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
12025.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
那這一陣子我們看發生了苗栗的一個隨機商人的一個事件外界就開始去質疑就是說我們這個整個矯正制度是不是教化失靈了這個教化到底是不是失靈然後好像又會導出這整個教化是沒有用的那乾脆把這個壽星人去關一輩子我想這是不對的接下來我請部長來看一下說其實我們壽星人出獄以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
12026.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
12051.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
這兩年內裡面的再販率你從2020年是29%到了2023年是18%從這個數字來看其實代表說82%的壽星人他是這兩年裡面他就沒有再販了那這個矯正他其實是有用的不是說他沒有用那這個數字其實告訴我們就是說很多的矯正同仁他們的努力不是白費 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
12052.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
12057.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
但是因為這個整個個案就去抹殺掉全體的一個付出好像是要把整個教化制度一棒這樣給打死我相信這也不對但接下來我必須要講的就是說我們還是有欠缺的地方你整個形式政策的靈魂就在於說你去矯正教化到最後是讓它去復歸社會而不是單純的只是報復然後切割讓所有的壽星人都完全沒有希望這也不對但是我們要做的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
12082.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
12089.06 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
其實還有很多我剛剛也聽到了我們我相信我們這麼美麗的翁小玲召委她擔任召委以後在這個會期裡面我們對法務部我相信我們會大力支持你們該有的預算翁委員跟我我們都兩個召委都會全力來支持但是該監督的部分我們也必須要去做一個監督你像譬如說本席一直在提出這個兩個比較 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
12111.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
12131.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
這一些一直在著墨的就是基層同仁這個的新生就是說危險佳績的部分危險佳績的部分你去把它看看我一直在比較就是說現在整個移民署的收容脫逃的移工裡面危險佳績就是9700然後監所第一線管理人員危險津貼是4500當然我也知道已經這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
12133.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
12154.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
這個整個矯正署這個地方也送出去到行政院直接借戶的部分4500調整到9700第二級是4000調整到7760那間接借戶的為止在3000那部長 我要請教就是說這條也說得很久你現在是前出了安裝你也要給你的監守人員的士氣大家要給他們好 給他們鼓勵一下現在是今年到 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
12159.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
12175.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
這部分修正增加專業佳績以及那個危老的一個佳績危老佳績已經在7月1日已經生效了嘛生效 對已經生效了那我想這個是可以讓我們這麼辛苦的矯正同仁有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
12177.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
12202.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
一個鼓勵來圍繞矯正同仁的一個辛勞那的確是在矯正機關他那些的收容人的確都是有不少有暴力傾向的而且暴力的實際的才會在裡面所以我想在整個一個圍繞的一個津貼這的確是我們是給同仁一些的一個鼓勵真的也要給他們打氣而且真的要給他們打氣 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
12203.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
12227.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
我要說的是 我們的矯正人員 他就司法最後一里路的一個守門人他們守的不是只有監獄的鐵門 更是整個社會安全的一個底線讓人冒著風險 這個我是覺得沒有給一點比較合理的待遇 這是不對的啦這個也大家一起努力 把他 制度把他更建置得更完善但是呢 人力短缺的問題 我就要請部長你再看看啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
12229.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
12248.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
你這個矯正機關的預算緣額跟你實際上的你看短缺的不少人你看你就減7、8、45人你介護的人力裡面你跟收容人來比較的話是1比10.2你心理社工的部分315跟收容的你看你比說1比197 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
12249.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
12270.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
教化人力這個可能就必須要你特別特別去留意了你跟收容人的比數是1比141醫事人員這很難講嘛就是說有時候你還會到介護出來但是你看你是這個作業的導師跟作業科的人力裡面你現在還是由介護科管理員去做監任這個署長你是不是起來之後應該這個你會大道過戶你提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
12273.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
12275.841 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
我一定會跟你支持 我也都會跟你支持謝謝 感謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
12285.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
12306.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
是 謝謝委員關心你不可以跟人家謝謝我來看你我們這個謝謝委員因為的確是我們那個介護人力跟那個小人力跟收人的比例我們是比日本比其他國家高很多我們這邊再來努力我們提出一下剛才那個趙委跟我們提那也謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
12307.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
12335.053 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
兩位召委 關心這個矯正的地方包括所有的 包括剛剛講苗栗的那一件隨機殺人我們是很痛心所以事實上我們在建立的這些的一些的除了介護人力不足還有社工交流人力這部分我們是不是我們再提出一些的一些的整變的一個計畫請委員來支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
12335.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
12337.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
我看各個政黨 審判沒人要審 司法法裏面想到的就是醫院監獄 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
12354.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
12382.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
就都去看搜索給你們看謝謝趙偉的一個關心因為這個監獄的確有很多我們需要可以在這精進的地方尤其是人力跟預算這部分犯罪後受到法律的制裁硬爆合理啦但問題這些都是我們的國民他只是穿著球衣啦要怎麼管理這裡你監守這裡沒有給他相對的一個武器的話這不行啦否則光一個突發的個案 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
12383.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
12407.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
就一棒把整個這個矯正的一個制度把它打死掉這是不對的啦這是不對的啦但是呢我也必須要再提醒就是說我們一直在講說廢除掉整個累進儲遇的一個制度去納入監獄行刑法的一個做準備這個再來的重擔這新的署長就在你的手上你說現行的累進儲遇碰到哪些問題你們很清楚嗎現在差不多要叫回師 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
12408.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
12433.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
教輔導師 現在大家都變算術的老師你要納入尤其是我一直在講說剛入監的這些受刑人他最需要支持跟教化但是現在你都分手變上街了你現在寒假算上街了其實整個黃金時機都錯失掉了這個整個從思維上都要去做一個改變但是我要提出幾個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
12434.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
12458.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
你現在如果廢除掉以後那你把他納入整個監獄刑刑法裡面你現在新制跟舊制如何要銜接我們手臂怎麼算啦對於那個受刑人他最重要的第一項就是說 你要升階到降級你這個也要做得清楚你到底是要用行政命令還是要訂定一個辦法這個都要未雨綢繆啦人家你沒搞到的時候 我能幫你支持嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
12458.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
12460.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
我們真的是會給你支持謝謝委員好不好那你這個考核標準如何去做一個統一因為每一個單位你的評分都不一樣你未來如何去確保整個公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
12468.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
12495.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
那對整個監獄裡面的求情的一個穩定跟受刑人他的一個權益這個署長你必須要去想清楚會 會 會好不好 感謝委員 會有時候沒有你跟他會會沒有 現在的話我們把雷勁處理改為階段性處理以前雷勁處理是要打分數的打得很細那結果反而給教委是帶來一個困擾每個東西剛剛委員也提到變成數學老師可是現在我們改為階段處理很清楚的我們把4321階段用那心情來切割 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
12497.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
12500.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
在市集的話它行其實是三分之一才能進到 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
12501.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
12503.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
我們這個社會要發生一個比較突發的案件對求情都會有所影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
12530.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
12532.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
你還當真以為你送到監獄裡面去把他叫化出來以後他出來就變溫良 公賤 浪你想想這個好不好 沒關係 說那個人嘛立法院裡面壞人就一大堆啦講話就變辯解啦 什麼那個道德 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
12549.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
12557.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
跟這個整個監獄裡面的受刑人來比我看都未能相比你但只是說送到監獄裡面他犯了法他本來就要應報可是在這個應報裡面的這個過程裡面的第一線的執行人裡面的同仁他當然會比較辛苦可是我們也必須要讓受刑人去看到他的未來的一個希望這個很困難常常因為個案裡面社會的情緒是浮動的講道理也講不清 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
12578.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
12586.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
台灣的社會以現在來看的話那個整個社會還算是穩定的我們不能因為個案去說台灣的案子賣到這裡去賣 賣法務部長你的責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
12590.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
12619.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
那你就要宣誓啊 任何重大的一個犯罪你就必須要很嚴正的去做一個宣誓啊但是呢 這一個整個矯正的一個後半段這一塊你還是要做好啊 不是說發生一個事情之後後面要跟人家說 派人或是這些人關到死這個想法也都不對啦 好不好那該缺人手的部分啦該去把整個制度面去建置完成的司法法治委員會是一個鎖理的地方啦尤其是翁召維啦 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
12620.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
12635.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
好 謝謝好 謝謝委員好 謝謝我跟莊昭偉學習多謝好 那接下來請賴會員委員質詢好 謝謝主席那個有請矯正署署長部長你先休息一下好 麻煩署長 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
12640.49 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
12659.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
市長我想我延續中委員矯正無用論充斥在社會上基本上其實這個是對大家是不公平的就是說矯正署長期一直在投注很多的心力 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
12660.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
12676.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
那其實刑期較短的犯罪的情境較輕微的這些案件的替代方案其實有沒有機會就是我們一直想了很多的一個勞動力的一個替代的方式那在近期 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
12677.461 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
12705.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
我想那個中委員剛提出了很多就是說不管是那個初一期滿兩年還是一年這有很多的一個數據在告訴我們就是說基本上其實兩年以上他可能就是會得到很好的一個教誨那我在這裡是想特別請教署長在這個過程裡頭你認為就是說勞動力的一個替代方案哪一種你覺得成效是最好的 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
12707.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
12730.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
勞動力的替代方案更為包括這個是要在前端在蔣介石官執行的時候的話他可以利用社會勞動的情形來當一個替代方案把這些送行者不用進到我們蔣經關裡面來執行因為進到蔣經關執行是他真的是沒有達到給他機會的嚇阻效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
12732.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
12740.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
認為說需要進到財政機關才進到財政機關不管如果可以再留在社會上利用社會勞動他還可以照顧他的家庭還可以維持這樣的工作那是最好的一個制度 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
12741.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
12769.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
所以你認為就是說留在社會上就是說留在家庭裡頭不一定要進到監獄裡頭來一個輕刑犯可以給他這樣的機會我們辦公室長期都有一個假釋案件的一個申請那也謝謝就是說反正每一次這種機率都很低那個假釋成功我們去關說不是關說就是說我們去關心我們去關心都非常的低那後來幾次下來以後我問你們的國會聯絡人 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
12770.515 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
12792.501 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
我問他說為什麼是不是因為我們不是本委員會的所以這個假釋的案件就是我們的成功率基本上會比較低他告訴我們說不是也不是這個樣子那事實上就是說其實他們不希望就是說假釋的案子因為現在有很多假釋的案子如果是在監獄裡頭的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
12795.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
12801.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
就是出來 就是再換的這種機率非常的高是不是有這樣的一個論述呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
12802.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
12827.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
跟委員報告剛剛的話莊委員也有提出一個數據兩年內的再販率那是國際學術認可的一個再販率情形因為超過兩年以上的話它牽涉因素很多那兩年之內的話是它離開建所之後的話這個比較能夠信賴的時間那我們現在再販率都已經降低了從23降到18我想說我們投入很多心力下去這個效果應該是有顯現出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
12828.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
12848.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
這個可以跟委員報告至於說假釋的話它是經過一個委員制的委員制的大家來投票認定說有沒有達到這個遷回的時機就是因為這個委員制有很多專家寫者那反而少掉了就是說我們建議的就是我們自己本身的這些同仁 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
12849.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
12870.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
事實上就是說我們聽到的一個信息就是說這個會跟基本上落差比較大因為我們都是用數學問題然後用很多標示 橫式的一個題目譬如說他再患的機率有多少他是因為什麼樣 他是毒品的 他是性侵的怎麼樣怎麼樣的一個罪行犯罪然後下去算分數 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
12871.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
12884.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
那相對的就是說在監獄裡頭其實有很多人看到了他在服刑的這段期間他所表現出來的一個態度那如果你沒有讓這個監獄的這些從業人員他們有參與的話會不會少掉了一塊比較客觀的一個參考謝謝委員的一個提問 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
12894.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
12918.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
的一個提醒其實的話在他寫的假釋報告表裡面就有那個第一線人員他的評語在裡面只是說來自我們外聘的委員的話他會用更客觀的更專業來看待這樣的一個犯罪的個案所以說是我們把內外的意見都綜合一起來評判的署長我請教你一個受刑人抄一份心經可以抵 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
12919.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
12940.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
幾天的刑期沒有這樣的那只是他一個表現而已沒有抵什麼的那幾天的一個參考的刑期沒有跟委員報告沒有這樣的可以抵的那你到台南看守守去走一下是是是到台南看守守去走一下那或許他是個人教會師的一個口頭在真正的我們的規定上沒有這樣的一個規定的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
12941.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
12967.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
沒有沒有這樣規定可是我還是希望你去了解一下那再一個就是說最後一個請教更生人保護協會那我們知道就是說這個協會存在了很長的一段時間了那對社會的一個就是說這些那個更生人的一個教化我希望就是說你可以給我這一個就是近期的這一年的一個報告會後給我好不好更生人的教化對 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
12968.946 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
12982.683 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
是 請務委員是在你說的好不好嘛 跟深層保護協會耕保協會的 對這是你的那個業務嗎耕保不是喔 耕保不是喔那就請部長提供給我 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
12984.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
13004.394 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
好 部長你請坐因為剛我要進來那個國會聯絡人就跟我講說不要問我們保證問輸定啦好 謝謝謝謝謝謝委員是 謝謝賴委員那接下來何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員何欣淳委員不在那接下來請林倩琦委員好 請林委員發言 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
13011.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
13016.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
好 謝謝我們主席 昭緯請一下我們法務部部長請部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
13022.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
13047.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
部長您好本席在這邊首先要先談的是跟憲法保障還有人權尊嚴有關的一個議題也就是原住民族的司法權益在去年8月監察院的司法及域政委員會通過了監委王美玉的一個調查報告指出在太魯閣的一個行賄案件當中檢警沒有落實對原住民族司法權益的保障 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
13048.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
13076.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
那這個報告裡面把整個個案的瑕疵有點出來但是反映的也是一個整個制度長期的結構性的一個缺陷那這個個案是呢一個太魯閣的李姓婦人跟她的共犯在這起案件裡面那他們是太魯閣族的但是呢檢警知道他們是太魯閣族的但卻沒有確認他們是不是要使用族語來應訊那他們甚至自己判斷檢警自行判斷 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
13080.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
13101.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
這個有很大的一個缺失這顯示出一個行政方便來凌駕人權這樣子的辦案文化不是只有程序的瑕疵而是對原住民族司法保障的一個掏空那您知道嗎在各個語言後面有一些社會文化邏輯的背景那這個不是我們用一般 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
13101.981 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
13125.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我們認為的一個想法就可以去了解這需要更多的一個同理學習跟了解所以在這個部分監察院又更進一步的在指出目前地檢署原住民的同意在族語的語別跟人數上跟實際的案件需求是嚴重的失衡也就是說基本上是不夠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
13126.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
13143.572 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
人也不夠 語言別也不夠因為原民會的資料我們在原住民族我想部長應該知道目前有16個族裔那42種方言別那檢察署現在的通譯只有7種族裔連一半都不到 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
13144.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
13171.662 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
那這樣子的落差在原住民族司法程序當中難免有的時候在母語方面沒有辦法完整的表達那在思維方面可能也不是太多人能夠理解所以沒有辦法確切的公述真實的程序跟你們所認為的正當性所以本席在這邊要提醒法務部根據原住民族基本法第30條國家有義務要提供足夠的族語通譯 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
13172.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
13186.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
而不是由偵辦人員用他有限制的知識來片面判斷是不是有需要同意再者在ICERD消除一切形式種族歧視的國際公約當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
13193.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
13213.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
以及司法的國事會議裡面都已經決議明確地要求建立完整的原住民族司法通譯制度確保弱勢的族群在訴訟當中不會因為語言與文化的差異而受到不公平的對待 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
13214.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
13238.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
所以本席在這邊要具體的請教法務部這一年是盤點了全國各級檢察署通譯人力與別與案件的需求嗎那目前補足的計畫是如何第二個部分是檢察官的實務現況是不是能夠及時調度通譯那請部長是不是可以針對這個部分給本席回應 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
13240.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
13260.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
謝謝委員那目前的那個同意我們在原住民組這邊的同意這部分我們有特約的一個同意其實剛才提到的目前只有7種的語言別這個部分你們是怎麼處理呢目前是有18種有8種目前有8種 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
13265.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
13280.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
有八族的語言就是從去年到今年應該從七族多到了八族的語言那目前是有37位目前37位那跟你們的這個案量來比應該目前還是失衡的吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
13281.325 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
13303.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
這部分我們再來做一個瞭解 是不是請部長這邊瞭解一下另外那個部署的話是有臨時的同意臨時的同意 那個就是有各檢察署他是有元宇基金會的元宇人才的資料庫跟司法院移民署的機關的同意人才庫來尋求這個臨時的一個同意來應這個特約同意的部署的這一個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
13303.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
13316.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
本席今天把這個部分點出來你是不是可以把相關更精細的資訊給本席的辦公室讓我們了解一下目前失衡的狀況你們補足的一個狀態是如何精進的這部分我們再來就順便包括跟委員做一個說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
13318.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
13346.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
所以最重要就是說司法希望每個人能夠被理解被傾聽所以當一個原住民的婦人因為語言的隔閡結果喪失了一個辯護權這不是只有個案的悲哀而是對國家弱勢很失職的一個證明所以希望法務部能夠針對上訴的問題的改善方案然後有一個時程是不是部長這邊針對本期所提到的這個問題您覺得多久時間可以改善到什麼程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
13350.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
13365.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
我們就先盡快給本席一個時程 好不好你們也研究了解一下 好嗎好 謝謝接下來本席要針對追蹤是追蹤本席有提過的就是第一線矯正專業人員的待遇的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
13367.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
13388.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
那剛才在前面質詢的莊委員跟賴委員都有非常關心矯正相關人員就是在處遇之後再犯還有是不是有效這樣一個問題那本席這邊指出來的就是這個矯正是否有用論跟執行的人員也有很大的關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
13389.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
13397.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
所以剛才其實他們在討論的時候也有點出一些問題本席在今年的6月質詢之後本席質詢的是針對矯正機關外聘人員執行專業諮詢治療輔導 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
13406.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
13423.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
評估及授課處遇費用支給表長期大概有10年都沒有做調整的這個部分是本席在6月份質詢的時候所提出來的所以剛才莊委員有提到你們好像變了一種數字遊戲但是在量化的不足的這個部分如何用質化來補足 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
13426.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
13442.644 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
第一線的人員的知己就非常的重要所以剛才本席所談到的知己是從民國101年核定到今天10年都沒有人去注意也沒有調整期間的基本工資也已經調漲了52%這整整遠低於衛福部或社安計畫網的行情標準我想矯正署你們應該也是了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
13451.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
13467.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
這樣子的待遇導致外聘的醫師 心理師 社工師流動率應該很高吧那聘用也困難處遇的這個品質也下降本席想請教法務部這項草案應該就我們的了解那矯正署應該送到法務部了嘛是 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
13468.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
13490.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
所以這個目前這個草案目前進行到什麼階段什麼時候可以實施能不能夠具體的承諾在今年前能夠完成核定與發布讓這樣一個新的標準準時的上路盡快的上路那未來是不是也可以建立定期的一個檢討制度避免十年才被發現十年才調整一次的荒謬現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
13491.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
13510.365 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
謝謝我們的關心關於這一點的話我們有提出這樣的一個調生案目前得到訊息是應該是有通過的只是說我還沒看到確認有通過嗎 就法務部這邊這個已經 矯正署函報本部本部已經函報行政院因為這個終點費的調整是屬於行政院的權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
13512.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
13541.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
所以法務部這邊已經送到行政院了嘛所以矯正署送到法務部法務部已經送出去法務部到行政院了目前是這個階段是嗎是好好謝謝那很感謝啦感謝矯正署做了這樣一個薪資調整的這個草案那也感謝法務部的支持那接下去本席會繼續針對這樣一個第一線人員的薪資知己的提高然後讓我們整個效度整個在矯正處遇上的效度能夠提高我想這應該是包括我們召委包括我們主席包括許多委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
13541.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
13544.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
都關心的這樣一個議題那請大家一起來支持謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
13548.459 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
13572.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
好 謝謝林委員因為林委員剛剛講的這個議題很重要那我最近也觀察到其實行政院那裡是不是押了很多各個機關提供出去的包含法規命令啊作業要點啊等等都沒有核定這其實已經造成很多機關在執行逐步上面的有發生有治案難情的情況尤其是我們立法院有要求各部會機關都要提 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
13573.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
13599.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
相關的一些怎麼作業要點的修正乃至於這種待遇加急等等的所以麻煩請部長回去也要向院長反映這盡量的要讓我們的機關所提出來的相關的辦法的修正要點的修正以及作業規定等等趕快核定 不要拖拖拉拉的好 OK那接下來我們就請陳冠廷委員發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
13610.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
13628.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
你好 我們請矯正署的署長跟法務部部長請部長跟署長 謝謝委員好部長好 署長好部長 您知道詐欺受刑人出獄後的這個再犯率大概是多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
13630.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
13657.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
這部分他剛才有講這個兩年內的整體的再販率是不到兩成大概就在如同我上把這個簡報傳給你看一樣所以我為什麼要提再販率因為最近我們聽到很多銀行其實是在凍結部分一般民眾的帳戶包含中信金台新等等的金融機構都有 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
13657.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
13679.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
那我們一直都不希望說讓這些一般的民眾被這些詐欺犯給影響到也就是說我們要符合比例原則怎麼樣可以確保說金融機關得到最一手的訊息來去做防範我認為這是更重要的因為我們如果只是針對案件來打擊的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
13679.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
13704.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
每年都會很多但是如果我們針對再犯的一犯再犯的詐騙犯如果我們有完整的資料庫並且可以完整的提供金融機構而且是實時更新的話我相信這對整體的詐欺的嚇阻是會有足夠的力量我想請問一下部長現在我們資料庫跟金融機關之間的提供或連線的狀況是怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
13707.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
13724.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
謝謝委員 這個關心的就是我們跟因為打仗一定要公私協力公部門跟私部門要做合作所以台高檢也有成立一個預警中心就是我們也非常的積極跟公股銀行或者是私營的民營的銀行 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
13725.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
13750.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
來做一個合作就簽MOU就是有關於那個獄警的訊息那這部分可以去追查就剛才委員有提到這有些可疑的交易的這些的帳戶我們可以去從這裡面去查去勾擊看看這裡面可以查到詐團或者是這個是不是一個人頭的一個帳戶避免當作一個洗錢的工具也避免民眾來受損 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
13751.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
13780.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
部長我想請教的問題就是說我們在釋法性上面能不能把有詐欺相關前科的相關個資提供給金融機構讓他們可以作為重點的勾勒這個釋法性是怎麼樣釋法性我們目前是比較保留的看法那我想我們用書面的研究再跟委員報告好嗎你自己的法律的看法我認為這個是目前沒辦法去做到目前沒辦法因為它有法規上面它的限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
13781.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
13801.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
就是它可能會對 因為我們現在那個不起訴除了說不起訴我們沒辦法去寄給非相關的這些的提供給這些的所以我們沒有辦法提供給已經有詐欺前科的這些資料庫而且我們跟委員報告我們那個預警中心我們有些提供這可疑的一些的交易的帳戶都要去識別化 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
13802.719 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
13823.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
要去四北化因為我們不可能沒有去四北化就提供這些的一個資料所以這部分我們目前研究目前的看法是比較保留的所以在法律上面我們沒有辦法提供就是已經有詐騙前科的讓他們做事先的去預警這可能會傷害到一些人權 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
13825.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
13849.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
這個還是要一個權衡嘛那法規也 法律也沒辦法去允許就這樣做那目前委員關係 其實這個是很大的問題因為剛才我提到那個預警中心我這個業務報告裡面就提到這個預警的一個資料所以我想這個我們預警中心現在我們現在如果委員關係我跟各大的金融機構我們最近很積極去簽MOU那個備忘錄的 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
13851.303 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
13873.536 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
那這部分有很多的績效包括那個台北地前有一個斬金磚那個查到那個被害金額一串那個幾千個被害人那個有兩百億的被害金額所以那個造成很大台中有一間伸縮集團也是兩千而且查扣到三十億的這些的不法所得這也就是從這些的預警的這些機制去出來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
13874.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
13893.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
其實我今天之所以問這個其實我是希望源頭打擊但是我當然知道說國家的法律它必須要有一致性那我們不可能為了就是打擊犯罪然後就違反某些法律的規定但是難道有沒有其他的方式因為如果我們以案件追案件的話跟以人追案件還是會有根本性的不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
13893.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
13919.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
那如果這些以這種20%甚至是那種未滿六個月就在犯罪我們其實很明確知道他可能還是會從事這樣的詐騙可是我們沒有辦法提供這樣子的資訊給金融機關有沒有辦法 有沒有其他的方式呢跟委員報告因為這個案件偵辦之後我們發現很多的可以提供給行政機關就源頭做一個監管的一些的 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
13920.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
13938.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
用來補漏 補漏那哪些還不足的另外我也有關心說再犯的問題那我想我們最近我們也要求在這個詐團這邊要強力的一些的要素材研辦 上訴溯源所以我們在一個申請這些詐團這些時候我們都會申請羈押 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
13939.682 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
13942.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
申請羈押 那求刑用詐偽條第50條有關你這些重大的這些我們叫具體求刑而且求刑要求重因為就是這些人一直在做而且災害率是很高的所以我們這邊有做這樣的一個處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
13955.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
13971.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
另外那個反刑假釋的那一部分假釋的這部分我們也是有嚴格的審查我有看到這個詐欺犯的假釋駁回率是有提高的我另外需要一個資料就是假釋還在犯的 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
13972.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
13988.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
這個比例又是多少這個部分我們也可能從這邊要再去我們再來勾結再來去打擊而且我剛剛有看到你們的這個第三頁你們資料提供第三頁就是說有一個防詐手冊這是不會再被騙了吧的第二集有出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
13989.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
14014.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
我認為我們可能要做的是做一些這是不會再騙了吧就是提供給這一些曾經執行過這種詐欺的這些詐欺犯要明確的告訴他們你們接下來面對的刑期增長是什麼樣的以及你們違反你們過去不要違反假釋的後果是什麼要讓他們很清楚的知道不要再說我不知道這個是犯罪我不知道我在當車手不能夠再讓他們假裝自己無辜要讓他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
14015.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
14043.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
知情說如果你們再犯你們所要付出的代價只會增倍大概是這樣子這個部分也希望部長能夠來去責成那特別是矯正機關我們這邊有數字我們已經有看到是20%那我們可能部長要下指令下指令就是說我們的再犯率要怎樣把它降低也就是說我們除了要去嚇阻犯罪加重騎行那矯正教化這個部分可能要想一下甚至是 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
14044.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
14071.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
包含這個修復式的施法讓我們直接面對這些被害者看他們怎麼讓這些被害者造成他們的家庭影響甚至是有些是家破人亡的讓我們直視自己犯罪的錯誤所付出的要付出的代價這個部分我想部長可以責成矯正署也好我們把這個我們現在已知就是有這些人在犯罪而且這些人還在犯我們把它做一些修正讓這個數字再下降一點好不好好 謝謝好 謝謝部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
14074.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
14086.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
好 謝謝陳委員那接下來邱志偉委員邱志偉委員 邱志偉委員蘇清泉委員蘇清泉委員 蘇清泉委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
14087.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
14114.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
鍾嘉斌委員蔡易瑜委員今天所有登記的發言委員都已經發言完畢我們的詢答就此結束委員質詢的時候如果有要求提供相關的資料或是以書面答覆再請相關的機關部長還有其他的署署機關儘速送交給個別委員以及給本委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
14115.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
14120.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
好 那麼今天的會議就到此為止那麼謝謝大家那麼我們明天上午九點鐘繼續開會好 現在休息好 謝謝大家 |