| IVOD_ID |
16924 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16924 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-08 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
委員會-11-4-15-2 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
2 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
委員會 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼[0] |
15 |
| 會議資料.委員會代碼:str[0] |
內政委員會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-08T08:32:42+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-08T11:30:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
02:57:18 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/eeffa975d6a1e3ea523447af23cba8b84574d9eae688737b2eb94a68550f7b5bd72347749e243d625ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-08T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
立法院第11屆第4會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況(含上會期臨時提案辦理情形)，並備質詢。【10月8日及9日二天一次會】） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:32:42 - 11:30:00 |
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Zither HarpZither Harp |
| transcript.whisperx[1].start |
1678.632 |
| transcript.whisperx[1].end |
1690.084 |
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千安組密報告出席人數報告委員會 出席委員11人 已足法定人數現在來進行報告事項 請先讀經過的會議記錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].start |
1695.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[2].end |
1714.221 |
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立法院第十一屆第四會期內政委員會第一次全體委員會議事錄 時間一百一十四年十月一日星期三上午九時十分至九時十三分 地點紅樓二零二會議室 出席委員麥玉珍委員等十二人 請假委員高金素梅委員 丁學忠委員二人 主席張委員紅錄 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].start |
1715.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[3].end |
1729.298 |
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報告事項 依本院人事處提報院會關於立法院第十一屆第四會及各委員會召集委員選舉時間地點表 業經本院第十一屆第四會及第一次會議報告決定在案 並經本院人事處含送本會召集委員選舉人民策導會 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].start |
1730.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].end |
1753.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[4].text |
二 宣讀本院第十一屆第四會期本會召集委員選舉人名冊選舉事項 選舉第十一屆第四會期本會召集委員二人一 當場推舉張委員洪璐擔任本次會議主席二 各黨團提出書面以推選方式行之主席宣告推選黃委員建兵王委員美惠為本院第十一屆第四會期本會召集委員 宣讀完畢 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].start |
1755.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[5].end |
1760.318 |
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請問各位委員 前面的回憶記錄有什麼不對 還是有疑慮沒有意見 謝謝這樣繼續進行議事錄確定再來我們繼續進行這次議程報告事項請先讀 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].start |
1778.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].end |
1787.252 |
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邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況含上會期臨時提案辦理情形 並備諮詢 宣讀完畢謝謝 這樣我們現在來介紹我們現場的委員跟列席的官員蘇巧慧委員李柏宇委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1808.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1809.776 |
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再來我們中央選舉委員會理事主委我們謝主秘和綜合規劃處張處長法政處我們蔡處長專務處副 擔副處長 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1836.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
1839.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
我們秘書是蔡主任我們林署林署是蔡主任抱歉 讓你站遠一點姜啊 姜主任啊抱歉 看到上面了再來曾鋒是陳主任 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
1872.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
1874.404 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
繼續請中央選舉委員會主委報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
1893.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
1909.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
主席 各位委員女士先生貴委員會今天舉行全體委員會議本人應邀列席報告業務概況並被質詢深感榮幸以下僅就本會近期辦理的各項工作分別報告以後 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
1910.029 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
1938.102 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
第一是報告辦理公職人員的罷免案從114年2月3號到114年2月19日為止本會受理立法委員及地方公職人員罷免案一共有64案其中立法委員罷免案是54案市長的罷免案有1案直轄市議員縣市議員罷免案有9案個案辦理的情形相如附表一請各位委員參閱 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
1940.464 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
1962.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
立法委員罷免案的這個結果投票否決的有31案不成立的有1案不予受理的有22案市長罷免案投票否決的有1案直轄市縣市議員罷免案投票否決的有1案不成立的有1案不予受理的有7案 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
1963.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
1990.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
第二是辦理一百一十四年全國性的公民投票一百一十四年全國性公民投票第二十一案在一百一十四年八月二十三日舉行投票並且在當天晚上八點完成開票統計的工作因有效同意票占投票人總數比例只有達到百分之二十一點七為達投票權人總額的四分之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
1991.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
1994.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
以上 所以投票的結果是不通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
1996.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2026.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
第三報告的是辦理選務的宣導辦理全國性公民投票第21案選務宣導包括投票日的日期時間年滿18歲有公民投票權以及宣導投票應注意的禁止事項避免民眾因為觸法而受罰透過多元以及數位媒體的宣導直轄市縣市選舉委員會社攤宣導落實在地的宣導 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2026.87 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2048.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
令加強對新住民對原住民以及身心障礙者的宣導第四辦理全國性公民投票案第21案意見發表會全國性公民投票第21案意見發表會共舉辦了5場並且在114年8月7日起到同年的8月15日子辦理完略 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2050.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2076.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
第五報告督導辦理第十一屆立法委員及新竹市第十一屆市長的罷免說明會第十一屆立法委員罷免案及新竹市第十一屆市長的罷免案除台東縣立法委員罷免案領銜人及被罷免人雙方同意不辦理依法應與免辦之外其餘各罷免案都在罷免期間由各該直轄市縣市選舉委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2079.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2080.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
為每一罷免案各舉辦一場的罷免說明會總計辦理了31場第六 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2086.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2108.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
是報告籌劃辦理電腦計票的作業電腦計票是由鄉鎮市區選務作業中心人員將投票報告表的資料輸入計票系統迅速完成會計各項網路安全以及系統的備援措施都是以最高規格來防護 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2109.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2113.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
本會在114年7月辦理55場的教育訓練以及114年8月辦理5次的電腦計票作業全國模擬演練並模擬一場狀況進行演練以立即時應變 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2127.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2144.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
第七是办理全国不分区及侨区国外国民立法委员递补的作业截至目前为止已经递补本件全国不分区及侨区国外国民立法委员三人递补的情形也请各位参阅副表二 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2145.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2161.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
第八是辦理直轄市縣市議員的締補作業截至目前為止已締補本屆直轄市縣市議員有14人締補情形相如副表3第九是受理全國性公民投票辦理的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2163.931 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2178.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
114年迄今本會受理的全國性公民投票案件一共有四案都已經進入徵求連署的階段第十 全國性公民投票電子聯子系統使用的情形 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2179.381 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2197.621 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
全國性公民投票電子聯署系統在113年4月10日上線之後截至114年9月30日至已經有4件全國性的公民投票案使用全國性公民投票電子聯署系統來徵求聯署第11是公民投 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2198.522 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2215.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
公職人員罷免案電子連署系統整備的情形為了推動公職人員罷免案電子連署系統上限作業本會積極辦理系統功能的測試壓力的試驗網站弱點掃描以及滲透 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2216.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2231.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
測試等準備工作本會將是全國性公民投票電子聯署系統實際使用的情形評估公職人員罷免案電子聯署系統上限的相關事宜第十二是辦理選務幹部人員的講習 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2233.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2243.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
本會跟行政院人事行政總署公務人力發展學院南投縣區合辦114年選務幹部人員講習在5月到6月之間辦理了三期調訓的人數一共有119人第13點報告執行政黨連坐的裁罰本會從101年4月3日起到今 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2259.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2279.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
裁罰一共有223件裁罰金額累计达新台币1亿8726万5千元受连坐处罚政党受政党推荐候选人所犯罪名以及裁罚金额请各位参阅副表4跟5 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2281.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2299.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
第十四點報告 辦理選舉徵送的案件辦理選舉徵送案件目前上系數中的案件檢數 既有最高行政法院九件台北高等行政法院八件 台北地方法院有一件各該訴訟案件的進行 像如附表六跟七 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2300.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2330.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
第十五點 第十一屆第三會期內政委員會通過本會之臨時提案有三案辦理情形 詳如附表八最後報告結語本會秉持憲法保障民主法治以及人民參政的精神依法統籌辦理選舉罷免及公民投票等業務致力營造公平公正公開之政治參與環境全體同仁秉持依法行政的精神恪守中立 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2331.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2358.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
致力建構健全的政治參與環境並積極與各級選舉委員會以及直轄市縣市政府協力合作透過嚴謹辦理各項選務確保忠實反映人民意志落實主權在於直接民主的價值強化社會大眾對選務機關的信任以上報告敬請各位委員指教謝謝謝謝我們感謝李主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2359.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2367.513 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
我們現在來進行詢問 跟委員的詢問進行我們來做幾項宣告每位委員的發言時間分為五分鐘有必要的時候加兩分鐘 若不是分為五分鐘在這裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2381.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2387.763 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
本組的會議我們又沒有要處理臨時提案請問各位委員有什麼意見嗎沒有意見在定期發言的時間我們定位10點半為止現在我們來進行詢問請定位第一位蘇朝慧委員詢問 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2417.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2422.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
好 感謝主席那我們請中選會主委 李主委主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2430.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2456.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
主委好 那我想我們是今天是這個會期第一次這個進行質詢巡打那其實前陣子對中選會來講真的是非常辛苦剛剛聽您的報告洋洋灑灑十幾點真的是沒有看過這麼忙的中選會因為不只是選務那還有這個公投的部分其實也非常的多那在這裡先跟所有中選會還有全國的選務人員先說一聲辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2457.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2469.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
謝謝委員鼓勵不過我想是這樣子啦既然台灣是民主的社會選舉選務都是我們日常會發生的狀況那我們就是藉著這樣一次次的選務來進行精進跟討論首先我想要請問的是齁這個 主委你有看過這張嗎你知道這張是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2478.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2497.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
這張啊這張叫做全國性公民投票案第21案公民投票公報這張你一定有看過這是21案那它的上一張是什麼上一張是17、18、19、20案的那一張四個案一起的那個公投對 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2500.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2507.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
來 主委我的問題是你知道這一張21案自己成為一張的這張公報跟17、18、19、20四案一張的那個公報有什麼不一樣的地方嗎後面如果有人可以代打的話我也滿樂見答案的不一樣的地方一定是很多那最基本的就是字數也不一樣件數也不一樣這個當然沒有問題啦但是如果教你這個實在是太難了 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2528.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2532.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
這兩個公報中選會有沒有任何人知道最主要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2534.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2558.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
我們這兩個公報都是參著社研院給我們的這個設計的概念是用一樣的方式在編排都沒有任何不合法不合理的地方但它真的有一個非常非常大的不同就是本次的這個第21案的公民投票公報上面它其實沒有政府機關針對公民投票案提出的意見書 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2560.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2579.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
他其實沒有所以這整份公報上面就只有主文然後理由書也就是提出方的理由書然後下面就是應注意事項主委你知道這一次的這個公民投票21案提出方是誰立法院嘛 對那17 18 19 20是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2583.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2605.933 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
是民眾這樣提出方的不一樣導致了他其實適用法規的不同所以其實在這裡公民投票法第15條那其實可以看得很清楚如果是這個由剛剛就是說的有立法院行政院和總統在提出的這一些的公民投票案他其實不需要適用第9條至13條第17條第一項至第三款 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2609.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2626.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
好第17條第一項第三款及19條的規定而這個所謂17條第一項第三款是什麼呢你如果看到那個你剛剛也有螢幕嘛上面我有反紅字的這個部分就是第三項就是政府機關針對公民投票案提出的意見書他真的不一定要 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2627.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2654.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
所以你這張合不合法合不合情合理可以 OK合規的沒有問題但我們看到的東西是什麼我們看到的東西就變成只有單方面提出的意見書啊所以另外一邊的不贊成的狀況或者反對的方向或至少政府機關的理由畢竟這是一個針對重大政策的案件不管他贊成同意或者到什麼方向其實沒有耶我們沒有看到諸位你覺得這樣合理嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2657.306 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2674.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
關於公民投票我們當然是希望民眾能夠獲得正反方的衝突的資訊以便於他們做理智的決定那在一般人民的提案裡面會有政府立場的說明但是在立法院提案的部分是明文一語排除 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2683.92 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
2694.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
但是雖然在公報上沒有政府官方的意見但是在我們所辦的公投的意見發表會上 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
2695.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
2716.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
有反方的團體 有政方的代表反方的團體裡面也相當成分的反映了政府部門對於公投議題的意見所以還是有一部分的管道可以讓民眾接受到雙方的訊息成儒主委你說也有一部分的管道可以了解政府的立場 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
2717.847 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
2743.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
好所以這是一部分但是在這一張上面每個人手上都有的這張上面其實就是沒有好那然後如果你講你如果細讀我們的公投法這樣文字下來其實它也沒有一定不可以寫上去啊所以這要寫還是不寫這個主委我覺得這個就有討論的空間啦甚至是如果大家覺得不管哪一案哪一種都應該要有政府立場的表述 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
2744.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
2755.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
那我們就可以回過頭來看看這一條法規是不是有修改的必要或可能這個我是見請嚴議我也沒有說今天就一定要怎麼處理所以這是第一條那第二條的話其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
2760.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
2780.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
主委我再跟您請教的是剛剛我們說其實現在公投法規定全國性公民投票的提出方式現在就有四種公民連署行政院提案立法院提案和總統交付主委您現在來看我們這一次經過的是我們台灣史上第一次由立法院提出的公民投票是 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
2781.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
2806.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
好那他有什麼不一樣你會不會發現其實我們來看我們完全就是層次拉高來看公投法當時他最重要的立法精神第一條他就是寫我們是為了要讓直接民權嘛依憲法主權在民的原則為確保國民直接民權之行使特制定本法什麼是直接民權是我們直接去投票人民直接去投票叫做直接民權嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
2806.983 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
2832.553 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
那你立法院其實本來就已經是間接民權的狀況了好可是你今天讓立法院可以去推動去提出這個公民投票案的時候這個跟公民投票的精神是不是一致其實我覺得這就很值得討論啊更何況是在由立法院這個間接民權單位來提出公民投票案的時候他的提出程序我們現在事後來看其實比公 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
2835.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
2838.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
以公民去提案公民提案的 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
2840.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
2868.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
簡便度難易度其實少很多其實少很多這樣合理嗎這也是一個問號謝謝委員公民投票公民提案的公民投票它是範圍包括有法律案的創制覆決有重大政策的創制覆決但是在立法院所提的案子裡面因為它本身就是立法機關所以立法原則的創制法律案的覆決 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
2869.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
2886.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
他是不能提的他只能夠就重大政策立法院因為他也相當代表了民意所以就民意重大政策的部分來提出公民投票的案子榮獲有這個需要的空間 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
2887.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
2904.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
我們回去片查當年的立法理由啦其實並沒有像這個主委您現在說的這麼清楚那我覺得要或不要當然都可以各自有立場只是當我們依照我們制定的法規實際執行了一次之後其實就剛剛的不管是 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
2905.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
2928.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
我們可以提出的項目內容也就是剛剛的其實立法已經不可以提了是只有提政策的這一端還有接下來的程序提案的程序呈案的程序等等到底要到什麼程度我覺得其實這一次經過了立法院提案的這麼龐大規模的公民投票我們是可以來考慮一下這個是不是日後就公民投票案 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
2929.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
2948.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
有精進的空間這是我想在這次我們花了這麼大的力氣進行了這麼大的一場公民投票之後那成效如何這個提供中選會參考啦我也希望有看到中選會有看到就本案的檢討報告這是我們的期待啦謝謝委員指教好 謝謝謝謝我們感謝蘇喬惠委員我們將張志倫委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
2965.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
2972.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
好各位委員主席各位委員各位官員大家早有請李靜友主委加主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
2979.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3007.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
主委早主委好 自從您在這個108年6月3號您的這個中選會主委就職啊到現在已經7年多了6年多6年7年了啦6年6年了嘛好OK那依照這個法律規定您的任期是到今年的11月3號是的是那基本上來講依照法律規定這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3008.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3027.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
應該要在中選會的各個委員任期滿三個月要辦理提名作業可是我們現在看到行政院到目前為止還沒有提出新的中選會委員的名單我們現在很擔心的是說中選會現在總共有十名委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3028.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3048.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
那包含您在內有六位委員的任期會在11月3號屆期期滿那現在行政院的發言人有說在9月2號有說就是在我們立法院開議以後要將中選會的同意權案送到立法院來做審議那請問一下就主委這邊你有收到消息什麼時候會送進來嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3050.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3057.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
這個提名的人選這是屬於行政院的權限那中選會在這部分並沒有任何的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3059.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3085.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
那主委你不會擔心嗎現在10名已經有6名已經快要到期了我們是很擔心因為這個選務不能夠中斷那尤其明年的年底是要辦理地方公職人員選舉有很多選舉的前置作業一些這個應辦事項的期程的規劃都必須要在明年的年初就必須做預為規劃了 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3086.937 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3100.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
那這個規劃的事項有很多都是必須經過我們委員會的決議才能夠定案那委員會的決議你開會有一定的人數的門檻我先請教一下如果這六名的委員到最後如果沒有送進來沒有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3103.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3127.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
通過的話那中選會有辦法運作嗎我們是不希望看到這種狀況但是如果這種狀況發生的話真的是會使中選會的這個業務會陷於停頓所以在這邊拜託主委要跟行政院拜託因為10月份還有非常多的連假而且連假有些是在禮拜五的連假那這樣的話如果來不及送到立法院或者是送進來人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3129.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3148.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
這個立法院如果有意見的話是沒有辦法去做更改如果更改的話或是有意見的話現在已經有超過半數是已經屆滿的一個狀況所以要拜託主委這邊是不是也要跟行政院拜託一下我們了解行政院有非常積極重視這個問題所以在積極尋覓適當的人選再問一個問題那主委你有推薦的人選嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3152.25 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3180.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
因為我知道你已經兩屆任滿了你有推薦新的中選會主委的沒有沒有我們尊重行政院長的提名權好 謝謝那岳主委你也即將期滿在這邊先感謝你謝謝 謝謝委員對於選務的支持好 那第二個我還是要跟你請教就是有關於中選會在這次歷史上第一次我們看到整個台灣史上歷史上的一個大罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3181.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3209.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
這個有32比0的這個一個狀況所以我還是要跟主委報告就是中選會在不管是選舉罷免是在選務機關是負責非常重要的職責那我這次在大罷免結束我個人有認為主要還是這個大罷免的這樣的狀況造成社會的分裂而其實是整個連署期間真的是太長了造成人民的對立有時候在街頭都看到人民跟人民互相針對一些不同的意見有紛爭 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3211.065 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3229.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
過去我們常說台灣最免的風景是人可是這個大罷免就會造成人民的對立跟撕裂的一個狀況我個人本席個人覺得就是連署的期間過長當時我有請教過你說未滿一年不得罷免的這樣子的一個規定當時我們發現當然很多的民眾他們會認為說 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3234.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3253.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
就是在那個立委任期剛滿的時候就已經開始有開始發起連署事實上有連署的這樣的一個我認為是漏洞的一個問題那之前主委的回覆給我說是法無明文規定 中選會管不到那現在大罷免已經結束了那我想要請問主委您的看法還是一樣嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3255.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3280.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
因為法律條文的規定是未滿一年不得提出不得提出所謂提出它是一個具體的動作就是向我們中選會來提出罷免的案子你有沒有覺得我們相關現在的法律的確是有一些疏漏的地方是可以來做調整的或者是你在解釋上是不是可以不要造成人民對立撕裂那麼嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3281.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3298.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
這個恐怕不是中選會能夠去擔起您個人的意見我個人的意見是根據法律的規定我們能夠依法行政把這個選務能夠穩定的辦好這是我們的責任至於像侏儒 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3298.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3327.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
所謂的大罷免這個高度政治性的一個對立的狀況我們選務人員一定要嚴守中立而不能夠隨意的去評論我要跟主委報告這個意思就是說在我們的選舉投票選舉的時候是有很明確的法律規定什麼時候能做什麼事情都非常清楚可是罷免的這個部分就是很沒有很明確的一些什麼時候到底能做什麼事情導致大家各自解讀都不一樣所以我今天才趁主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3327.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3338.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
在的時候來自己請教那看起來主委還是沒有很明確的一個想法當然你們在預算書裡面是寫說實務上因為不知道有沒有人在連署所以很難查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3339.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3365.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
所以就是說跟你現在講的方式其實是有一點點的落差啦所以我才想說所謂預算書上面的這個說法應該是指的如果你用法律條文來限制在一年以前不得用任何的方式來做連署如果是這樣子的話那查核有困難但是就目前的法律條文的規定根本我們也沒有權利去查核 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3366.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3393.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
因為那是屬於言論自由行動自由的一個範圍好 所以主委現在意思還是法無明文規定所以就是大家自由新政是好 謝謝第三個我要請教有關於您上任來您推的一直在推的一個非常重要有關於人民行使權利就是電子連署的一個部分在去年上線了以後其實現在的使用的一個狀況其實不是非常的熱絡 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3395.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3411.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
現在我們是有公投的電子連署已經上線了可是人家我們一直說不管是公投連署跟你最近在我們的報告裡面有寫我們的罷免系統的部分還沒有上線就你而言你覺得什麼時候會上線 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3412.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3441.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
我們已經是建制完成了但是因為這個牽涉的這個關係比較重大所以我們是很期待一旦上線的話不能夠出任何的差錯所以現在公投已經是上線了我們希望看公投上線之後實際運作的這個狀況有沒有什麼地方是需要再去加強的那我們作為這個罷免上線的一個參考 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3442.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3457.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
好謝謝那最後一個問題那就請教其實我在今天看到你的報告書裡面沒有提到就是有關於不在籍投票的一個部分那不在籍投票因為其實我相信很多民眾就是行使投票的一個權利那就目前我本席有所了解只有選務人員 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3458.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3474.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
可以做不在籍投票的一個部分那就很多本席的我們很多的委員都有提到說有關於原住民或是警消其他的像警消一些老師這樣的公務人員有沒有機會未來來推不在籍投票請問主委你的意見是什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3475.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3497.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
公民投票的部分全國性公民投票的不在籍投票的草案我們已經第二度送到立法院來了我們是採取的移轉投票的方式移轉投票的話它並沒有限制什麼樣子的類別大家都可以有投票選人的國民就可以去申請 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
3499.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
3508.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
所以這部分應該沒有問題至於這個選舉的部分這個是涉涉到這個內政部他們的權責這個我們也尊重內政部他們的規劃好那好謝謝主委啊那謝謝謝謝委員謝謝我們感謝張志倫委員執行和現在張宏祿委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
3535.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
3554.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
我請主委加主委主委我不知道最近有沒有注意到一則新聞法國的新總理勒柯 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
3555.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
3568.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
兒女法國他們的之前新總理勒科兒女她又辭職了她不到一個月的時間辭職了我不知道朱委有沒有注意到這個新聞我看到新聞報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
3570.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
3585.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
其實法國跟我們台灣的政治制度上很多人把它拿來相提並論有點類似又不全然法國總統是絕對多數決 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
3592.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
3617.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
法國總統選舉是是絕對多數決兩輪不一定兩輪他如果第一輪他就過半了那當然所以在這個學習來講他應該是絕對的多數決一定要過半絕對多數是不是這樣是但法國的總統他也有解散國會的權力 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
3620.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
3641.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
對不對 是對 它是可以解散國會現在台灣有很多人在說台灣的總統選舉要不要兩輪制我不知道主委有沒有聽到這個看到這個新聞最近也看到媒體上有部分的討論我個人是覺得我們先從法理上來講我們的總統選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
3647.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
3672.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
宪法是不是有明文规定总统选举该如何选举宪法中修条文第二条第一项有明文的规定我们是采取的一轮相对多数字没错嘛上面就白纸黑字有写所以如果要改变这一个总统的选举制度你认为要不要修宪 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
3674.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
3689.729 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
我想這個解釋上應該是沒什麼問題因為憲法的明文規定在那個地方你不能夠根據違反憲法的規定直接從這個總統副總統選罷法去修改這樣是跟憲法的規定有違的 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
3690.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
3707.924 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
沒錯嘛你的看法跟我的看法是一樣的那反過來如果說這種單一首長制如果縣市首長要改成兩輪絕對多數要是不是不用修憲了 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
3712.338 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
3728.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
縣市首長的部分憲法並沒有明文規定所以這個如果是在一般的公職人員選罷法裡面有相關的規定的話那我們就按照這個規定來執行沒有錯嘛 主委所以你的看法跟我是 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
3730.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
3751.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
比較相近這是就執行面來講至於政策面是不是有這個有沒有這個必要不不不 主委我不認為這叫就執行面這是法理面我剛剛就跟你講這都是法律的規定就法理的部分就政策的部分就政治的部分這部分我們是沒有評論 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
3753.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
3759.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
因為我們中選會其實是一個選政的單位而已我們選務 我們主要辦理選務 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
3761.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
3789.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
對啦 選政選務其實分開所以我今天問你這個問題我只是覺得說這個東西其實也要讓全國民眾知道就是說關於總統的選舉方式你總統副總統選舉罷免法是規定他的執行面他的選務他的怎麼樣去做而已吧對不對 是不是這樣基本的精神還是必須要符合憲法的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
3791.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
3816.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
所以我們的總統、副總統選舉罷免法裡面它規定的大部分就是如何去選舉然後選務什麼什麼然後一些相關的規定而已吧所以如果要二輪制我認為是要修憲跟縣市州長你要去修改它變成二輪制這個是不同的層級我不知道主委你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
3817.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
3844.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
我同意是不同的層級對嘛所以我覺得這個二輪制有好有壞但我個人認為現在台灣我比較擔心的是其實在國外很多二輪制的投票到第二輪變成換票聯盟然後交易聯盟我不知道主委有沒有看過這些相關的報導 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
3846.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
3875.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
那看過對啊在二輪的時候就互相利益交換我跟你換部長我跟你換什麼很多都是這樣我覺得在台灣我覺得第一個台灣面積小那我們的人口數也才2300多萬人在現在做這個事情我個人認為是要值得考量的我不知道主委你的看法我們會傾聽各界不同的聲音 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
3878.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
3899.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
其實主委我必須要跟你說有沒有改有沒有什麼的其實跟你們中選會也沒有任何的你可以去做決定你可以去那個因為你只是人家怎麼規定你怎麼做而已如果是修憲的話我們還要辦公民複決 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
3901.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
3925.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
對 你就是那些執行面嘛 對不對所以我今天特別問你這個也不是找你麻煩我只是會覺得說這個東西要讓大家知道這已經到修憲的程度了這不是一般修法啦主要的目的是在這裡啦我不知道主委你的看法是不是如此 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
3926.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
3938.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
我想這個是一個非常牽涉到國家的這個體制非常重要的一個議題啦全民都應該會關心好好謝謝主委好謝謝委員謝謝我們感謝張宏祿委員我們請紐西頓委員質詢謝謝主席李主委有請請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
3963.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
3986.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
主委早安剛剛你講說憲法裡面有明文規定我們的總統選擇是一輪相對多數決是這樣嗎我的理解憲法徵修條文第二條第一項的規定第二條第一項怎麼寫的第二條第一項它是我整個念出來總統副總統候選人應聯名登記選票上同一組圈選以得票最多一組為當選對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
3988.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4005.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
那我們大部分在討論說法律的修正會不會抵觸憲法對不對我們在討論憲政爭議的時候當然講我的法律會不會抵觸憲法就是跟憲法走向相悖的這樣一個概念的時候這如果是二輪要求過半才能當選多一個門檻的時候他會不會是選票上面最多數的一組 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4006.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4032.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
你聽得懂我的意思嗎對不起就是說如果今天是二輪投票或者是說一輪投票就要當選他就要得到過半的票數如果一組候選人在這個選舉裡面得到了過半的票數他會不是在這個對戰組合裡面最多數的那一組會不會一定會嘛我選總統我拿過半的票我就是一定會比其他人多對不對那是不是符合憲法徵求條文得票最多的一組為當選那請問有抵觸還是沒有抵觸 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4037.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4064.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
我先來憲法徵修條文第二條第一項的規定並沒有要求並沒有要求你得票對 你講得很好他並沒有要求一定要這樣對不對但是當你是這樣的時候你符不符合憲法的規定憲法只有講是最多數的人為當選對吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4066.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4083.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
那當超過50%的門檻對不對它也是最多數相對多數它也是最多數他們都沒有違反憲法的規定應該是這樣理解吧所以你不能夠說沒有達到二分之一以上沒有絕對多數的話你就不算當選因為法律因為憲法並沒有設這個門檻 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4085.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4101.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
我剛剛問你講我們大部分在討論法律跟憲法是否叫抵觸嘛也就是說它違反了憲法規定的方向那當然到這個東西就是違憲沒有辦法去做處理但這件事情它真的有抵觸憲法嗎它實際上會可能會有超過絕對的多數對嘛不管它有沒有超過絕對多數它都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4107.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4134.466 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
得票最多的一組嘛所以它其實是沒有抵觸的問題好沒關係這是法律見解你把它定為門檻就會有抵觸這個是法律見解的問題你也不是大法官我也不是大法官沒關係但我要問的是世界上採取總統直選的國家有多少個主委有瞭解嗎我目前手上沒有這個資料沒關係有40個左右啦國家大概是採取總統人民直選嘛那你知道多少是用絕對多數多少用相對多數嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4136.144 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4152.475 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
這個相關的資料我們還要再整理目前世界上40個國家裡面只有9個國家是採取相對多數包含中華民國在內那其他的國家包含法國芬蘭奧地利葡萄牙波蘭羅馬尼亞捷克斯洛伐克巴西智利以及等等都是採取兩輪多數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4154.256 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4175.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
今天大家去討論這個事情無非是因為現在就是因為少數總統跟國會的方向嚴重的衝突嘛遭致很多的憲政僵局很多人去談說兩輪投票會不會增加很多的選務成本大家非常麻煩等等但是你想想看因為選制造成的憲政僵局沒有辦法解決難道不會給國家給社會帶來更大的成本嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4177.284 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4202.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
我個人認為目前國家的確是遭遇到一些困境那要解決這些困境要掙脫出來它的方式其實是非常多的那在總統選制的部分的一個改變是不是足以來改變目前朝野之間對立的這種狀況我個人認為是還有很多地方需要努力 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4202.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4214.16 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
沒關係這畢竟是你的個人意見但因為大家都談總統選制都會去談憲法徵求條文的二項二條一項規定但憲法46條也有規定政府總統的選舉以法律定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4214.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4241.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
但沒關係這個題目反彈剛開始我們也不要在這個場合佔用太多的時間我還是要問你一些選務相關的我要問的是這段時間我們除了立法院之前提的這個核能發電的這個研議公投之外還有四個這個由公民團體提出的公民投票那他在這個內容上面其實相對單純他其實就是不滿意立法院的修法結果嘛所以他希望提公投覆決的方式想要把它廢除對不對那講到公民投票就講到連署嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4242.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4270.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
那講到連署大家就知道其實中選會是有安排所謂的電子連署剛剛張志倫委員也有關心這個題目請問電子連署總共花了我們國家建制這一套電子連署設備花了多少資源這你們要不要說明那個幕僚單位補充一下建制的費用當初在建制罷免的時候是花了400多萬沒有啦我問公投啦公投的話是花200多萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4271.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4296.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
200多萬 花了這麼多錢 效果怎麼樣目前已經上線 有試案正在使用正在使用嘛 那使用的結果怎麼樣你們有沒有稍微觀察一下雖然你們是 你們當然不能干涉連署的內容這個本席完全理解 但問題是說你既然有提供這樣的一個機制 變名等等那這個政策執行的成效怎麼樣應該等到 因為我們是一個獨立機關 所以要等 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4297.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4326.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
那個領銜人送件來之後我們才會知道他送來的件數有多少因為這只是一個連署的一個工具而已只是一個工具而已那你們以你們目前現在可以掌握的資料跟了解的狀況你覺得大家有很充分的在使用這個機制嗎我們不方便主動的去了解你連署的狀況但是從媒體報導當然我們也要去關心好像進行的速度不盡理想 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4327.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4355.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
那原因是什麼呢你們有沒有去做了解其實我倒覺得這時候你們不用那麼保守啦就當然我講你不要去干預連署但是你稍微你講說有這樣的一個機制可以去應用我倒覺得沒有什麼不行的即便這樣子的幾個公投投票案跟本席的政治立場不相同但是我覺得工具就是工具啊而且這個未來都可以參酌既然都花錢去建置這個東西的話你本來就要去檢討他難得有在實踐的一個情況之下你要去了解說他為什麼出現了一些問題跟障礙嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4355.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4374.579 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
我們在上線之前的準備工作裡面有一個階段就是加強宣導加強宣導就是讓有投票權的人知道有這麼一個途徑你可以去方便的連署希望大家多多的利用但是在上線之後已經有具體的案件在進行了 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4375.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4390.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
我們就不方便再去做這個工作因為這個會被誤解會被誤讀為這個本性也不是不能理解因為其實新聞大概其實都有露出就是說他們還是採取傳統的要去設立連署站等等那這些東西其實 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4390.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
4412.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
到了最後其實繞了一圈好像進步有限我是希望這個反正是結束之後你可以做有效的檢討跟滾動式調整這到底要好用不好用不好用可能要再思考怎麼樣來做優化我們目前大概還有一個進階的做法目前就是還在研議之中就是用行動的連署行動連署 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
4414.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
4428.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
你就是做好完整的幾個案例的調查跟檢討之後再來去思考調整的方案啦這本期做一個提醒啦好不好這希望中選會稍微花一點心思在選務優化跟節省社會成本上面可以嗎好謝謝主委辛苦了謝謝感謝紐西田委員質詢我們請麥正委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
4443.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
4447.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
好有請中選會主委安江主委委員好好主席各位同仁大家好首先感謝我很不是感謝啦很感嘆我們馬太安就是那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
4473.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
4488.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
安瑟湖 玉柳 窺提花蓮的灌糊箱造成慘重的災情到現在已經兩個星期了災區還有很多地方需要救災 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
4490.13 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
4503.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
當地救災的災民需要但是現在的一團亂 不知道你們有沒有到現場但是呢 煉射湖的紅色警戒還沒有解除 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
4505.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
4528.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
要不要建村 還有很多問題大家都感到就是今天都無所謂但是我們中央災害應變中心指揮官內政部是收到我們的 在我們這邊內政委員會的監督主要的單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
4529.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
4546.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
但是呢第一天上班卻沒有看到這個議題的安排內政部的業務報告但是呢反而現在優先排序的是中選會現在選務比救災更重要嗎是嗎還有我們的內政部長還在那邊呵呵呵呵是磨笑的聲音還是苦笑 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
4558.697 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
4580.183 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
大家來還是我們人民更苦所以我們今天就是來找你來問我也不知道是什麼原因還是選後來檢討罷免後來檢討所以我們回到我們今天的主題我們要請教一下我們李主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
4581.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
4601.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
我們你對公投綁大選的看法因為你在媒體說為了避免2018年的選務亂象再次重演傷害民主還是傾向維持現在的制度 對嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
4603.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
4627.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
是的 我們正在選務機關的立場2018年的選務的亂象大家記憶猶新而且是非常沉痛的一個記憶也因此在2021年的四大公投裡面有一個公投就是又要把這個公投跟大選要綁在一起但是那個公投案並沒有通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
4628.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
4644.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
沒有通過的意義就是表示說人民還是很在乎並不支持這樣子的一種做法那現在各種條件是不是有所改變是不是到了要再重新檢討的一個程度我們認為大家必須要深思但是問題選務的問題我們是要讓一個選務 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
4650.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
4674.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
委員會來去處理吧不是在2018年到現在還在說這個問題所以我們可以在檢討後做不一樣的改進措施所以這個亂象完全沒有辦法改善嗎還有我們投票的目的就是變民還是因為便宜你行事 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
4675.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
4680.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
就好這樣子的話你覺得說在2018年現在你還要拿出來再去檢這樣子是真的是傷害人民嗎選務的考量是其中之一但是並不是全部對但是我們你曉得嘛你曉得我們歷年在公投的就是說我們的票率是多少嗎你看 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
4699.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
4709.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
我們在公投的時候在公投法在2003年的就是年底立法在2004年年底正式實施全國性的公投第一到第二的兩個案件在2004年與總統選舉同日選舉投票率逾45%2028年我們也是全國性公投 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
4729.486 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
4732.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
與立委選舉同日執行我們的投票率就是26%還有在2008年同年我們叫五到六案全國性公投我們也與總統一起執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
4744.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
4764.74 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
投票率也過了35%在2018年我們也是全國性公投我們在到從第七到第十六屆以九合一地方選舉也同日執行十項公投裡面我們投票率就是54 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
4768.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
4792.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
1%到55.89%之間在2021年也是我們的17到20案跟我們的公投脫鉤後呢單獨公投投票率也是11%左右今年剛結束的河山研議公投投票率僅得29.53% |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
4794.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
4811.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
越來越低請問我們的主委你覺得投票率低是傷害民主還是實踐憲法主權在還是我們民主的表現 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
4812.844 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
4834.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
投不投票这是公民的自由那一个公投案能不能够吸引一个公投案能不能够让选民愿意站出来来表示他的意见你要看选民对于这个公投的议题他是否感到必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
4834.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
4861.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
他是否有兴趣是否跟他的生活有密切的关系所以不能够把这个问题跟单纯的跟选举绑在一起来看这是第一点第二点公投跟选举绑在一起会混乱了这个投票的一个焦点因为选举的议题你把人民都是傻的什么混乱 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
4862.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
4889.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
现在就是你们的工作混乱你们的工作要懂得怎么样去排序怎么解决问题你把所有的事丢给人民什么混乱没有什么叫做混乱是安排我们的制度跟程序如果你说这样子的混乱的话我再问你历年来的公投选务花费是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
4890.615 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
4893.938 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
我們要是要怎麼樣去為我們的國家最近這一次立法院送過來的案子就是河山炎疫的問題這個案子就花了11億4千萬所以你們就是沒有綁在一起才要亂花錢也達到這樣子的我們為我們的國家要去省錢要去 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
4913.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
4922.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
要達到的工作效率但是你沒有解決工作效率你還要把國家的錢來去花費對啊我就問你說公投選務花費多少嘛但是我要問你這個問題公投選務現在歷年來花費了是多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
4931.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
4938.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
历年那太久了而且太久了所以你开情的面连眼睛都不眨一下我们国家的钱都是纳税的钱你要的范围来我跟你讲你没有在我们根据你的公文再发函回给你 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
4946.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
4951.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
我現在告訴你啦我們選我們呢 據我們的中選會就是在向媒體說2018年我們的公投花費15億當時公投案雖然是有死案 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
4962.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
4987.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
但因為跟選舉綁在一起估計一案約1.5億在2021年我們的與大選脫鉤後呢四個案公投需要費用就是花了13億多就是估計當次獨立進行的公投每一案平均花費就是3億多啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
4989.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5009.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
所以今年我們核三原液討入我們的公投需要的就是花費已經11億所以不可否認的是說公投合併全國的大選才能實踐民主又兼顧節省的成本 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5009.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5013.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
我們是要跟你講的是說我們為了國家你們的工作也要說要去要預算的成本還有效率我們講的是這個所以呢我們希望大家來支持我們的台灣民眾黨黨團有鑑於就是現行公民投票的舉行 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5034.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5057.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
于全国性的选举脱钩严重阻碍人民行使直接的民权还有为了打破鸟笼的公投实践我们的宪法主权在民之原则我们希望我们的公投公民投票法第23条 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5059.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5075.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
文裡面的修正草案民定主管機構對於公民投票案公告成立後一個月起以六個月內進行公民投票該期間內有全國性的選舉時應該 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5078.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5098.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
就是该选举同日举行我们会努力来推动修法通过我们希望的是这样才我们要去评估还有我们要的人力物力我们都要去评估我们人民要照我们政府的规定 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5101.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5106.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
但是我們要花那麼多錢還有就是辦會那麼多人力因為時間的關係我們主席已經站出來了已經站起來了給一句第一句話第一句話就是委員剛剛所做的這些論述 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5119.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5127.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
我覺得還有許多許多的盲點如果你覺得是盲點 你要來去說明時間到了好不好 會後再跟你回答來會後再回答我們感謝麥政委員的執行 我們家徐政委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5149.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5153.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
謝謝主席 我們請中選會李主委南京上主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5158.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5176.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
委員好主委好主委我想請教您您的任期是到什麼時候11月3號 全部到這個月您的任期到11月3號我想依照中選會的組織法第3條委員的任期是4年您已經連任一次所以到11月3號就是您會卸任的時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5179.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5206.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
那當然依照我們這個中選會的組織法也有提出行政院長因為任滿期前三個月提名新任委員這個並補題出缺那中選會現在有十位委員因為有一位委員之前就已經請辭了那其中六位都跟您一樣會在11月3號任期屆滿那請問一下行政院到現在有提名新任的委員嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5207.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5228.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我們知道行政院他們很積極在尋找適當的人選什麼時候可以提出來我想也會考慮到我們選務的運作所以我們也期待這個案子所以就是還沒嗎他們很積極在尋找適當的人選所以說依照我們中選會的組織法的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5230.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
5251.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
委員任滿三個月前也就是8月3號應該就要提出了但到現在都還沒提出的原因您剛說是為了要積極的尋找那如果他到了12月還尋找不到的話那請問這中間的話您11月3號就卸任那12月他如果還找不到的話那請問一下中選會要怎麼來運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
5252.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
5278.859 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
我們期待這種情形不會發生那這個可能行政跟立法兩院之間大家那行政院到現在都還沒有提出是不是為了整個國家民主政治的能夠這個完整的運作大家能夠互相合作讓這個人事案所以對於國家的民主運作能夠完善的話應該是要在8月3號之前就要提出嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
5279.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
5298.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
但現在都還沒有提出所以說當然今天您也做了一個今天的報告那接下來我們要審中選會的預算那請問一下您現在所提的報告跟未來新任的主委上來之後如果你們的目標不一致的話那今天的報告算數嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
5300.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
5313.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
今天的報告是我在主委的這個任期裡面按照大院所指示的我們所提出的有關業務方面的報告就大大的這個方向所提出的一些說明 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
5314.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
5340.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我想这样子的一个方向也是经过现在有效的委员会大家所做成的这个决议对 但是有六位就是马上要到任了有六位都跟您一样11月3号也就是说只剩四位有没有办法能够代表未来的委员会他如果依照这个合法的方式能够做一些政策的调整依照合法的方式的话我也想请教一下那个李主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
5341.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
5351.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
就是依這個中選會的組織法任滿這個前三個月應該要提名這個新任的委員那這個到底屬於強制的義務還是努力的義務 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
5353.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
5381.849 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
这个应该有一些空间事实上现在是还没有提出来所以这样行政院算违法吗我不认为它是违法那应该是怎样我不认为它是违法但是衔接的问题我想行政院那请问一下中选会有发函给行政院要求他应该要立即提出人选吗这个是行政院长的直言我的意思是说中选会有没有发函提醒院长 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
5383.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
5406.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
應該要在這個8月3號之前提出其實院裡面相當了解這種狀況那你們有發函提醒他們嗎我們不會發函你們不會發函所以院裡相當了解可是就是不提出那所以我可不可以理解成在8月3號之前沒有提出是因為當時有這個726跟823的這個公投的這個我們罷免的這個案子所以他在當時不提出可不可以理解成這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
5407.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
5425.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個我們不理評論這是我的理解啦但是我認為到現在還沒有提出的話應該要積極的提醒行政院應該是要在8月3號之前就要提出那另外呢再想請教一下這個李主委就是我們依照公職員選舉罷免法第35條跟37條的規定 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
5429.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
5449.08 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
立法委員的選舉區應該每十年檢討一次並在本屆任期前兩年兩個月的人口統計為準那我會請教您這個就是最近我們有在媒體報導看到說好像會提早來檢討這個選區的變更那想請教李主委有沒有這回事 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
5451.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
5470.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
这个我们跟内政部之间大家有交换过意见那可能现在的共识是在116年的时候我们会来进行检讨116年会进行检讨因为10年检讨一次第一次是96年96年第7任对 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
5473.201 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
5492.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
第七屆再上一次是106年所以下一次是所以你們現在會依表定的時間就是106年的11月左右要提出這個當時任期前兩年兩個月的人口數所以是依表定的目前的2027年的時間是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
5497.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
5508.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
116年我們會開始啟動檢討因為上一次是106年是這樣所以還是會依照表定的時間沒有錯那所以呢依照這樣子的話可能就是會在2027年啟動檢討然後在20大概三 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
5512.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
5530.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
2029年11月应该适用到第13届对就是等于2032年那一届现在11届12届13届就是2032年的届所以目前你们大概还是依照我们的法律规定的我们按照既定的行程法定的行程就10年检讨一次谢谢李主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
5530.831 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
5550.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
然後最後要請教您的就是這個公投的部分因為其實現在很多的民眾都希望能夠公投綁大選那尤其我們看到在這個我們在新國會智庫也有做一個民調就是有高達66.3%的民眾是支持要公投綁大選當然不外乎就希望能夠 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
5552.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
5573.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
節省我們的公帑能夠節省我們的選務的作業經費尤其是今年的一岸的公投綁大選就公投和三研議就花了10億多那如果能夠在跟大選綁在一起的話這筆錢勢必一定能夠節省很多所以現在大概大家都在探討這樣的一個事件那當然剛剛我有聽到主委在講說2018年的這個公投延宕造成我們整個的這個因為選務 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
5580.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
5602.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
的工作会延长时间所以建议不绑大选可是事实上有43.2%的民众认为是中选会没有规划周延才会导致当年的一个乱象所以这个部分的话我觉得可能我们中选会要好好的来检讨一下既然民意所趋是公投绑大选 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
5603.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
5614.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
應該來好好的檢討是不是要恢復過去這樣尤其我們剛剛也可以看到這個投票率你看我們以往如果公投綁大選大概都可以到五成五以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
5614.554 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
5643.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
但這一次河山研議的這個公投在8月23提出的這個它的投票率在29.53那也就是說未來如果公投不綁大選事實上公投案要成案其實相對的都非常的不容易事實也是這樣所以說為什麼民眾期待是能夠公投綁大選第一個能夠充分的展現民意第二個也能夠節省公帑節省不必要的浪費那這是我想這是民眾大家普遍的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
5643.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
5667.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
想法那當然在這邊因為時間的關係那我也請主委要好好的演你這個公投綁大選如果說民意的話民意調查固然可以參考但是正式的公民投票在2021年的這個公投綁大選的公民投票他是沒有通過的那這個民意應該是更清楚就是那當時有公投綁大選嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
5670.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
5675.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
就是公投沒有過嘛公投有沒有綁大選就沒有嘛當然不會過如果公投綁大選這個提案就一定會過當時是因為公投沒有綁大選所以他的投票率才41%當然不會過啊大家痛在心裡那個心都在痛主委我覺得你倒果為因啦所以這個部分我覺得公投綁大選如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
5690.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
5704.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
可以好好的充分展現民意才是民眾所需求的我站在選務機關的立場我要代表我全國的選務同仁他們不願意再蒙受那麼大的一個災難我站在人民的立場我代表全國人民告訴您 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
5705.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
5715.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
人民希望的是公投綁大選除了選務人員的心聲之外就是公投跟大選之間的渾咬渾咬也是傷害了也是傷害了人民對於公投的一個正當的意見表達謝謝徐政委員接下來我們請王美惠召委謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
5734.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
5737.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
主席,我們請李主委來,有請李主委主委,你好你知道,我聽到我們的董事會說是怎麼擺我們的業務是不是內政的比你們的業務還要重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
5761.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
5768.978 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
在這裡我要提醒一件事因為我們內政部長朱花蕾發生後 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
5770.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
5776.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
他還要走來走去要怎麼讓花蓮的災害更加嚴重因為今天你如果說來內政的業務報告的時候是很多人要來也沒有辦法去開會也沒有辦法去花蓮到三天我覺得大家聽到花蓮發聲 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
5796.109 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
5815.584 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
這件事的時候我相信所有的百姓所有我的董事跟我們中央政府大家都非常感激不是今天沒有關心花蓮我們再來辦這個選舉的日子你如果看花蓮發生的時候沒有分開大家的關心我覺得 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
5825.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
5827.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
要憑良心說 能夠看人救災奉便我們為了什麼要亂七八糟 叫他們來這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
5839.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
5864.238 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
對於召委的這樣苦心的安排我們是非常的感動那現在全國不管是各級政府不管是民間大家全力在投入到這個花蓮的救災裡面整個的內閣團隊幾乎都是全部動員了所以這個時候讓更多的人讓更多的資源能夠到災區去這個是大家的一個共識 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
5865.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
5880.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
因為我相信咱們在座的我的姐姐同事都會靠電話給寶丁寶丁都說我現在要開會 跟我現在要做什麼他不是英雄 為了我 我想的事他是比任何人 還合金他知道我聽到這樣的事 我真的坐在地上我說 人敢愛恨你 沒理性 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
5894.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
5896.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
講這個外公的出處來 主委在這裡本身要幫你探討你的臨時你的臨時在11月13日在剛才你講的中間出沒一個月不一定兩天白天的時候你就已經 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
5915.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
5926.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
倒喝嘛 再見我希望今天跟你討論的可以雖然你們這個有夠弱沒夠弱也不知道但問題的存在我們要怎麼去處理像剛才你回答的你們裡面有很緊張的要借領交還要拿的時候未來的美女要選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
5945.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
5962.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
這樣會怎樣通常啦 通常如果年底要選舉我們大概在年初的時候就必須要去決定投票的一期投票的一期決定後之前之前有很多丟臉的慷慨很多說話主委 現在我就是跟你說喔你老公的11位妻子 還弄你媽啦11位妻子 還過沒一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
5972.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
5974.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
就185年了啦 185年的年頭就要決定每年底選舉的日期啦再來重重 大家都會覺得選舉委員會跟中選委選舉幾個月沒贏千萬大家不要這樣想 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
5995.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6002.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
選舉委員會和總選會是要選舉的時候你對選舉 你就要開始安排 開始固定去了解他的票帳身體對的安全性要怎麼處理所以 主委 我想要跟你請教說 如果你不認跟我們行政院的人士如果不來 這要怎麼去 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6027.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6027.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
打死他 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6028.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6056.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
這要怎麼處理是剛才委員的關心啦當然我們期待說現在在這邊有辦法很快拿出適當的計劃那立法院這邊我們可以很快來完成這個審查的程序那讓新任的委員可以無縫接軌在11月7日馬上就能接起來這樣讓全部有辦法正常運作不要出現空窗出現空窗的話真的就是一個國家的危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6058.123 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6060.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
主委 我覺得有可能空窗的這是很快人的你如果想 今天十月七八還有幾天 還有到現在的民選也沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6074.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6080.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
我覺得這種的行政隱私人最近有發生很多事情但是做什麼要想什麼嘛你也知道中選委有的人數要趕緊處理像這樣的時候每年我們的委員會要怎麼做還是大家硬硬的乾脆這個後半段的時候跟大家一直加班一直沒空 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6104.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6106.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
這樣是很慘耶 主委是所以我們知道行政院也很積極的在尋覓人選那我們希望這個你是覺得有人不敢來還是沒有人要做這我就不瞭解這你不瞭解好啦 主委因為我覺得我們立委是監督官啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6130.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6131.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
因為做不好的 做不好的我們都要站出來說不管什麼都一樣因為要讓一個國家進步到好的時候應該要積極去做 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6145.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6164.788 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我也鼓勵有可能的人選大家要勇於承擔在國家遇到困難的時候尤其是選舉的工作是很重要的民主基站的工程這個重要性非常的高希望有人願意來擔起這個責任各位 還在這個問題我再跟你討論一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6170.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6179.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
你說用於承擔我相信大家都要承擔但是要承擔的當中說實在有很多無奈的真的像剛才說的公投綁大選說實在公投綁大選大家都看到說要來選這個候選人更加知道這個公投要做什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6199.364 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6204.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
這都會亂了啦你如果分開我今天就是要來選好選贏選好選贏我今天要來選公道是什麼陷阱這次的公道是怎樣的 發生什麼事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6216.741 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6221.124 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
就是因為選擇不夠 還已經退役的東西還站出來要公投這不就吃人放的合適 吃人狗狗所以投票都會那麼瘦啦在這個過程當中 我也要向主委說我們的選務領完 大家很辛苦的但是在我長久以來還說每一個官司 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6248.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
6271.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
他的總幹事 都是他每一個官司都收牌像這個人 我們的爸爸 每一個官司 他的主委我們可以去看人家的父親 人家的嫂子這是最重要的 這更破壞了 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
6273.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
6282.048 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
所以主委 這個東西我們是不是要討論我們的地方的中選會是一地方人數還是第三方人數來做不像這樣的時候 北省是要相信什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
6297.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
6307.787 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
其實過去幾十年 雙武基跟地方政府中間的合作是非常的密切 也非常的順利現在又不敢了 你看現在開的雷槍 主委你聽到你的叫嗎極少數的個案 極少數的個案 當然我們覺得非常的遺憾 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
6319.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
6335.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
那這個事先要如何的去防治這樣子的一種可能對於選務的傷害這一而我相信大家會特別的注意我覺得這個要去注意 要去想想要怎麼去改比較好 雖然你剛才有說什麼我相信你還要有看好說這個問題出來感受 以上謝謝謝謝 謝謝王美惠召委 謝謝接下來我們請黃婕維園 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
6356.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
6359.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
好 謝謝主席 我們請李主委有請李主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
6367.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
6387.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
好 主委好喔 因為前面有非常多位委員都還是在討論這個公投綁大選的問題所以我在這邊希望再次的幫大家複習一下過去的記憶那其實從2018年的經驗就可以知道說邊投票邊開票會造成非常多的選務的問題那時候最大的受害者就是國民黨的台北市候選人丁守中馬 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
6388.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
6405.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
他甚至出來說這個邊投票邊開票影響選舉的結果甚至他認為這個現象非常的荒謬那我也不知道說為什麼當時的國民黨候選人明明就已經是因為公投綁大選造成的受害者結果這麼多的國民黨委員現在又在倡議公投綁大選 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
6407.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
6429.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
那那時候我們也還記得說因為投票投到半夜三點半造成非常多選務人員很辛苦甚至有過勞的情況然後還有很多選民因為投不到票導致說很多縣市甚至公投的投票率並沒有增加反而下降因為他排太久了反而很多選民沒有辦法因此的投票投到票影響他們的選舉的權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
6433.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
6462.473 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
所以其實到後來我們把選人跟選事分開就是希望說這個民主可以深化讓大家可以針對議題就好好討論議題針對人就好好討論人所以當時的公投綁大選在這樣的脈絡之下2021有這樣的結果甚至是大家不同意公投綁大選才有了現在這樣子把公投跟大選分開這樣的制度目前運行到現在我們主委認為這個制度是穩定的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
6463.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
6485.013 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
到目前为止我们没有发现任何自爱难行之处选务的部分也都是相当的顺利所以没有任何新的一种状况需要说在这个时候我们对于公投跟大选脱钩再去做检讨我认为没有这个必要 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
6485.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
6512.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
好謝謝主委的說明所以在這邊也再次的證明說其實公投不需要綁大選到這樣子目前為止我們中選會照目前的制度反而能夠順利的運行對於選務人員來說也不會有太多的負擔這個是到目前為止這樣的結果人民公民權的行使其實是非常正面的不會讓議題互相混淆讓選民都可以很理性的來做決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
6513.544 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
6537.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
好 謝謝諸位的說明那再來要跟您請教一個比較制度性的問題因為其實從台灣的公投法實行到現在已經有21個公投案了那我覺得制度上是有一些可以進一步討論的因為其實國際上的這個公民與政治權利國際公約裡面有提到說公投的主文是不應該要有誤導 暗示 誘惑或是反對等等的內容 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
6538.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
6555.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
可是照這個規定我認為在台灣目前的公投的主文一直都有不太順利甚至是有誤導暗示的情況就例如說其實剛結束的這個核三研議的公投他的主文是說您是否同意第三核能發電廠 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
6556.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
6570.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
經主管機關同意卻安全無虞之後繼續運轉可是我們一直質疑的是五月核關法就已經修法了如果核電廠要提出重啟的研議的申請就是照法律來進行相關的申請這個甚至是藍白修過的法那現在為什麼還要因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
6575.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
6600.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
說因為因此而可以提出這個公投呢那這個公投結束之後就有學者分析說對於贊成方來說他們的目的是要透過政治壓力來施壓並且利用資訊落差來扭曲核三公投的法律意義把它扭曲為跟法律案一樣的法律約束力來產生政治的壓力可是當時候我們看到國民黨他們拍的口號是說支持核三研議換回電價穩定用電更安心 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
6603.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
6618.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
那這樣的內容其實很多人就質疑說這個真的有在科學的基礎上進行它成本相關的運算嗎包括說它投入的工程等等的成本是不是遠高於核電帶來的效益所以我們當時會覺得說這個樣的內容主文的內容有沒有誤導或是暗示或是誘惑等等的 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
6626.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
6648.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
疑慮呢那另外一個更明顯的例子其實就是2018年的反同婚的公投提案人裡面是寫到說您是否同意婚姻應該要一男一女是否同意民法的婚姻應該限定在一男一女的結合等等的可是在這樣的主文之後他們後來的宣傳都是寫說這個公投是要另外成立伴侶法 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
6649.52 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
6669.262 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
所以我覺得從這兩個案例可以凸顯到是說中選會沒有辦法針對主文有一定的內容的規範或是針對說如果他們這個主文已經很明顯是誘導性或是有誤導的作用或者是有不實的論證我們的政府的權限是有限的 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
6670.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
6695.793 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
那甚至是其實在國際上有一些例如說瑞士的公投主文還有他們裡面提到的公投的手冊都有非常嚴格的規範就是有強調說絕對不能有誤導性也不能有誘導性那甚至是聯邦政府有權修改或拒絕這些不實的論證那如果甚至是如果他的資訊相關是不實的到時候公投的結果可能被法院來撤銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
6697.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
6714.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
那這個是在國際上的例子所以我一直很想知道說在我們台灣這樣的情況下很明顯很多都已經是有誤導性很多有誘導性甚至我認為他的論證都已經是不符合事實的那我們中選會是不是都無能處理啊謝謝委員的指教目前我們的這個公投法 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
6720.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
6745.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
在第9條的部分是有相關的規定第9條第三項說第一項的主文應該要簡明清楚要客觀中立理由書的產名以及其立場要跟主文一致這是第三項第四項規定說主文跟理由書的文字用詞字數的計算語法及其他相關的事項之辦法有主管機關定制 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
6745.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
6774.715 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
那剛剛委員所提到的尤其是關於誤導的部分其實在我們現行的這個法律規定跟我們的這個辦法裡面是可以得到相當的法源的依據我們可以來做審查的實務上我們也會要求如果發現有不當的情形會要求提案人必須要來補正那補正通過了沒問題補正不通過的話我們就不予受理 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
6775.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
6801.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
是啦那當然最後這個和珊跟還有像當年的這個反同婚的公投的主文你們都還是讓他可以進行到這個公投的程序嗎那我們問的是說像後面他們在宣傳的內容其實很多都跟主文已經是完全是背離事實甚至是不實的資訊甚至有非常多是誤導性的用恐嚇的等等那這一些你們有辦法讓他去 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
6802.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
6813.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
符合原本的主文进行相关的讨论吗如果是我们职务上所明知已经是伪造的不实的讯息的话我们是可以要求删除的 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
6814.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
6838.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
好那這個就要拜託了因為我們希望接下來針對公投的討論當然是要依據議題本身他必須要符合事實然後必須要盡量的讓民眾是得知完整的資訊而不是現在謠言滿天飛大家在這麼多錯誤的資訊下你要他進行這個公投的選擇最後做出來的結果很可能與現實是不相符的 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
6839.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
6856.205 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
所以這是我最擔心的所以單純的環境是非常重要的如果跟選舉加作會的時候那整個議題就失焦了是好這個就是再拜託主委可以進行這些不實言論的闢謠也好然後盡量的讓這個選舉的環境是更單純越好好謝謝委員謝謝主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
6865.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
6874.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
謝謝我們感謝黃姐委員我們請到金樹美委員質詢讓我們待會兒到李柏毅委員質詢後休息十分鐘謝謝各位美會召委好我們現在請中委員會李主委請主委主委您身體還好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
6892.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
6905.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
您快退休了吧動了一個小手術所以看起來你行動好像今天有點不太像以前快退休了吧快到任了沒有退休金了 是借期 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
6908.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
6934.69 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
雖然您已經快屆期離開這個職位但是我覺得做一天和尚敲一天鐘該做的事情 該負的責任還是得要完整的把它結束 好嗎謝謝委員並且交接今天有幾個問題想要問您就是這次的大罷免案最終雖然是以失敗收場但是代價卻是我們全國的納稅的人民共同承擔的 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
6935.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
6953.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
你在9月2號的時候 你也說一案的罷免的經費是1700萬到1800萬因為年度預算不夠 所以必須要動用第二預備金所以總共這一次的罷免案是4億281.5萬元 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
6957.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
6975.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
而在人力方面 我們也動員了將近27萬的人力我要再請教主委 到現在為止這種勞民又傷財的大罷免制度你覺得是值得鼓勵 值得推廣的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
6977.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
6982.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
這個牽涉到我先要講的是無差別的大罷免這牽涉到這個政治上的判斷我們選務機關是不宜來發表評論我們要的我們做的就是如果是合法的程序進來的話那我們就依照法律的規定來順利的把選務很好所以當然現在呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
7000.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
7026.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
我們也已經修法了修得非常完善了比較完善一點但是我還記得當時我做召委的時候在這邊修這個法的時候非常的遺憾民進黨的朋友們在這邊霸佔了主席台癱瘓了好久的議事規程但是最後終究我們在立法院還是三讀通過了把這個選罷法給它比較完善的修法了 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
7027.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
7044.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
當時我們也看到民進黨立法院黨團吳思堯幹事長還沒修法之前他說選舉跟罷免都是憲法所保障的民主制度也是人民的基本權利任何政黨還有從政者都應該尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
7046.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
7065.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
蘇巧惠委員也說這樣的行動深化了台灣的公民運動跟民主素養雖然我們現在回過頭來看根本少有所謂的公民運動所謂的公民者其實也就是政黨發動的大家也得看得非常清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
7065.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
7087.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
那麼我還想要再進一步的請問您您是否也認同吳斯堯幹事長跟蘇巧慧委員說的只要他形式上符合了人民直接投票的參政權就是對民族有益 對人民有好處的參與方式您認為怎麼樣 您認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
7089.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
7105.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
只要是按照法律的規定所提出的不管是選舉罷免或者是公民投票我們都依法必須要受理這也是我們最重要的核心疑問謝謝您非常這樣子制式的回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
7106.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
7126.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
我雖然尊重您的看法也尊重吳思瑤委員跟蘇巧慧委員的看法但是我也必須要說按照你們的說法所謂形式上它符合人民直接投票的贊成權就必然就是對民族有益那麼我就請大家不要雙標 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
7128.517 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
7147.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
為什麼 因為當時我在修選辦法70條 71條 73條的時候我主張原住民的立委只要是出缺他就必須要跟區域的立委是一樣的一旦出缺了他就必須要補選而當時我們的內政部他有展現善意 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
7148.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
7158.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
他明確的回應我說原住民的立法委員跟區域的立委同屬立法委員但出缺的時候呢就必須要按照 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
7159.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
7187.797 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
規定來相同內政不是同意的那麼中選會當時您告訴我說原住民的立法委員補選的時候這形同辦理全國性的選舉它需要花費大量的人力跟物力等等的資源明白的講當時主委您的意思就是說當原住民的立委出缺的時候我們的族人要透過補選要選出適合的人選的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
7188.977 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
7215.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
您說太花錢不值得辦但是當民進黨他要推動耗資上億元的罷免案的時候你卻說你這個尊重立法院然後你也說這是深化民主值得鼓勵主委你不覺得這就是雙重標準嗎我更坦白的說這是歧視我們原住民參政權還是說當民進黨他要 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
7216.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
7226.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
政治追殺的時候什麼都可以但是當原住民要求跟非原住民一樣的平等權利的時候民進黨的朋友們你們卻習慣選擇視而不見尤其是現在執政是民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
7232.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
7247.248 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
在這裡我要嚴正等一下我要嚴正的告訴也提醒主委民進黨對於我們族人的選舉權的歧視不是一天兩天的事因為這件事情我提了很久 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
7250.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
7267.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
你們執政大概已經快九年了而這件事情呢我看在眼裡 痛在心裡面大罷免花了這麼多錢原住民的補選沒有錢也沒有人力所以我認為這不是制度的問題這是政治的選擇問題您可不可以回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
7270.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
7295.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
我已經把我內心的話說出來了另外我好不容易爭取到的優化原住民的選舉人領票作業事辦計畫的報告我其實就是為了要一次性解決長期存在我們族人選票誤發這個主委您很清楚我在這邊質詢了很多次族人選票誤發 少發或者是沒有發的問題請問一下主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
7298.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
7306.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
這項事辦計畫目前的執行進度到哪裡了011月已經要離開你的位置了你必須清楚交代一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
7307.512 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
7329.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
在我離開這個位置之前我們已經兩次一次在6月一次在9月兩次的要求各地選委會必須要針對這個專案要先進行一些準備的工作可是主委您知道嗎我看到的是114年的12月底你們才會跟地方召開會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
7330.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
7358.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
然後這個會議裡面其實我們看不到細部的規劃也不知道你們要怎麼樣執行你們要如何來幫助族人來解決這個問題有一些前置的工作還是必須要先定案第一個就是投票的日期第二個就是投票所然後這兩個事情決定了我們還要去統計在我們事辦的區域裡面到底有多少的原住民的選民 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
7359.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
7378.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
诸如此类的这个规划的工作都会在年初明年的年初我们选务的协调会的时候都会具体的来定定所以这件事情你会非常负责任的交代下去然后接任你的人必须要完成这项工作我已经交代过两次了 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
7379.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
7408.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
已經交代過兩次所以我在這邊也公正的要求我們的中選會你們必須在一個月之內給我提出素面報告有兩項第一個請盡速提出原住民立委補選經費的精算跟通盤檢討的報告我們必須要讓社會清楚了解原住民的立法委員出缺的時候補選我們到底會動用多少的財力還有多少的人力好嗎第二個 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
7409.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
7426.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
必須要優化原住民選舉人領票作業事辦計畫這個計畫不僅僅適用在地方公職選舉更應該要全面擴大到中央層級的民代選舉我們必須要用制度化的方式來保障我們族人的選舉權跟平等的參政權 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
7429.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
7443.979 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
領票優化徹底的方式就是說原住民的選舉人名冊是另外造成的沒關係你一年內之內必須要正式的提書面報告給我可以嗎好沒問題好謝謝主委請保重身體謝謝我們感謝高清書媒委員這順我們家裡補育委員這順 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
7465.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
7487.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
謝謝有請李主委請主委謝謝主委你也即將在下個月任期屆滿是謝謝委員的支持這幾年從2018之後公投綁大選之後那有做了很多包含選務上 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
7489.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
7491.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
幾次的大選那中選會也是辛苦了 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
7492.54 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
7518.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
那我重複一下剛剛其實高警委員沒有講清楚的事情讓主委這邊也可以再重複的回應一次修好了選罷法修好了是什麼修法修好了我來重複一下因為我等一下還會跟主委談到1994年的修憲那所以呢立法院去年度的修法我覺得大家還印象深刻的時候我們在這邊也重複一下是什麼東西修好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
7519.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
7546.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
选罢法是把罢免制度里面的联署的规则修好了中国国民党加上民众党把联署的规则改成必须要附身份证附身份证影印的联署之后目前还没有任何一案的罢免案产生对不对 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
7547.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
7564.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
目前沒有所以在上一次所有中委選會主辦舉辦的這個所有的罷免投票裡面是沒有含身份證影本的對不對都是適用舊法適用舊法所以新法他說修好了的意思是說以後的罷免 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
7564.761 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
7591.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
必須要付身份證影本所以當時民進黨的委員我們黨團才會把這個主席台站下來希望可以吸引全國的目光讓全國的民眾知道未來罷免他是要付身份證影本不是我們這樣子人數少就被強行通過我們用盡了所有的辦法希望所有的民眾可以知道這件事情這個是去年罷免案 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
7591.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
7612.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
那剛剛有委員說修好了其實是修這個事情我在這邊重複一下接下來我也看到在我們開議前那其實已經有很多風向球出來了包含中國國民黨的委員有提出來總統副總統選舉罷免辦法要不要提出兩輪制的投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
7613.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
7636.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
那我來講一下現在現行寫在我們憲法徵修條文裡面的因為主委過去是法律界出身那也擔任過司法官那也擔任過內政部次長也擔任過各個相關的政務委員等等的那我想要請教主委1994年修憲的時候在憲法徵修條文裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
7640.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
7668.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
中華民國總統副總統由自由地區全體人民直接選舉之而且總統副總統候選人因聯名登記在選票上列同一組圈選以得票最多之一組當選這是《徵修條文》裡面的內容如果改成兩輪制那原本票在第一輪最多的卻在兩輪制裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
7670.523 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
7699.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
第二輪裡面變成沒有當選請問有沒有違反這個憲法徵修條文裡面的內容如果 憲法的徵修條文沒有改變的情況之下的話根本沒有所謂的第二輪對 好 那如果他去修兩輪制是那變成第二輪裡面他其實在第一輪投票的時候他是票多者依據憲法徵修條文票多者他已經當選了 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
7700.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
7727.869 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
對不對你改成第二輪變成他沒有當選這樣有沒有跟憲法抵觸這相關的配套一個制度必須要都周延所以有一些問題不是那麼簡單的就說一輪兩輪絕對都是相對都是不是還有其他配套的這個制度怎麼配套好怎麼配套跟憲法抵觸的時候怎麼配套主委你是法律人跟憲法抵觸的時候怎麼配跟憲法抵觸就無套可配了你就要修憲嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
7729.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
7754.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
是不是就要進入修憲上一次的修憲是1994年的時候民定總統副總統選舉辦法票多者當選好時隔30年台灣這一套民主制度台灣也從1996年開始總統直選之後所有的這一套民主制度我們目前已經選出了歷任的總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
7755.799 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
7777.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
而且都是依循1994年所修憲的這一套版本如果要碰到要把第二輪投票放進來勢必抵觸到憲法徵銷條文勢必回歸到1994年這一次的修憲內容其實已經否決了第二輪的投票其實已經否決了當時要做這個當選門檻的這個投票所以 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
7785.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
7804.002 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
不要再避免了就是說我的意思是說包含限訴法你用限訴法去毀掉大法官的這一些釋憲的這一些功能之後難道台灣的大法官台灣的憲法法庭就要停擺嗎你現在可能因為認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
7807.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
7835.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
賴總統他這次當選的票數雖然在相對多數的比較下他還是當選總統你就要去修改二輪投票請問1994年以來投票到現在你就要把它推翻台灣現在民主的這些養成嗎他還是必須要依靠一部憲法啦所以我要論述的是可以修改但是你要修改的最後其實是憲法 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
7836.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
7861.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
我們依循的我們的民主我們的選舉等等我們都依循這一部憲法在運作所以主委最後我還是那個邏輯第一輪投票票多的應該當選總統沒有錯而且我們憲法裡面也沒有寫到什麼第一輪第二輪投票如果要討論的話是不是應該進入修憲我剛剛就已經講過了這個是必須要修改憲法相關的規定謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
7869.118 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
7871.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
謝謝 感謝李博弈委員結束我們休館十分鐘 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
8602.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
8606.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
謝謝 我們繼續開會 我們請我們黃建斌召委執行謝謝召委 我們有請我們的主委請主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
8627.15 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
8646.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
主委好主委好主委那個今天是我們中選會的業務報告是不過在我們今天討論的內容之前我有一件事重要的要請教是包括主委在內總共有六個六位中選會的委員任期在今年的11月3號到 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
8648.001 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
8653.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
借滿 那依法規定我們行政院應該在八月就要提出我們新的這個委員的名單嘛所以行政院發言人說 會在我們後期開議之後會把這個資料送來但是目前我們到現在還沒看到像請問主委 你覺得這個進度到哪裡了 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
8668.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
8693.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
我了解是行政院是很積極在徵詢適當的人選那至於這個進度的部分我們就不瞭解我們希望能夠及時能夠趕得上在11月4號新的委員能夠及時來接軌以免影響選務的運作 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
8695.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
8707.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
是 謝謝主委再要想要請教主委就是主委你也即將要滿期了那回顧您就任主委的這段期間的表現主委你自己打分數你自己打幾分你認為有什麼地方可以做得更好 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
8711.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
8718.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
我認為這六年多我參加全國的宣佈當中大家教師的經驗是非常珍貴 也非常高興不是只有我自己的感覺就是說我們每一次出辦在全國的宣佈之後都會做民意調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
8733.758 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
8740.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
滿意度的民意調查大概對全部的滿意度都超過百分之八十五以上所以說甚至對全部人員的服務的態度都九十幾%所以如果一定要不然就要早點發表一個心理的感想我對我們董事團隊的派分所我會給他派百十五分 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
8761.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
8772.557 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
團隊分手跟配角 非常好記憶我個人 差強人意啦 差強人意主委客氣了 主委客氣不過本社尊重這主委的講話但是在本社要把主委提前但是在未來是不是還有人還是未來 我們問一下這個我們選委會委員會中選會一定要保持中立 獨立千萬不能受到這個執政黨還是政敵的影響因為這幾年我們看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
8790.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
8812.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
在這幾個選舉裡面 包括我們這個白眉男的公投案裡面我們社會都覺得說有雙標的情況 這個社會的觀感希望未來我們的中選會能夠更謹記自身的這個使命跟責任我倒是請委員是不是可以指教一下三一部分中選會有雙標 讓我們了解主委 主委其實我們其實早期多少委員也都說對了這部分是用提示而已 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
8817.322 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
8821.569 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
我們也期待未來中學會能站成這樣立場所以我想要談這次民眾投票所謂公平性和權益的部分根據我們省區部的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
8829.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
8835.576 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
全國有8萬多名65歲醫生的長輩長輩到離安逃避逃避時有超過1公里這裡還有1萬5人是超過2公里對這種行動比較不方便的長輩來說逃避是很不方便的事也有可能是因為他們逃避的意願 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
8850.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
8867.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
2022年這身心障礙者權力公會審查會也有明確的指出我國的政府應該要讓高齡者身障者有更多投票權益上的保障讓投票權不只是只有有資格而是讓他們能夠來行使這是第一部份另外就是關於住民投票的問題根據統計有超過2000所的投票所 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
8873.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
8893.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
只有一名原住民的選舉人那代表什麼代表你開票的時候就知道這兩個人投給誰這等於是公開的變相的這個亮票這個也影響到投票人的壓力嘛所以這個也違反我們憲法保障秘密投票的這個權益讓很多原住民朋友受到一些壓力啦那我講中選會我們選有請地方選委會來 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
8898.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
8905.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
來調改調整我們這個集中選票但是意願回復不到一半 成效很有限那 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
8906.61 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
8930.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
在這裡本縣也認為可以推動不在籍投票讓人就近來投票這是我們根本來解決這問題所以本縣在建議我們中學應該針對高齡 深藏 原住民族研議這個不在籍投票的配套方式其實我們目前有多少選民都已經實施不在籍投票的移轉投票我本市選民 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
8931.514 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
8949.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
我在每個開票的時候我就在那裡投票那已經有在執行了嘛所以這個方法可以來擴大來使用在其他的範圍上嘛那保證每一張票能夠票票等值也確保我們人民得到投票的自由跟隱私那這部分主委你怎麼看 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
8950.638 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
8971.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
謝謝委員的指教 兩個問題要跟委員做報告第一點就是 委員關心說我們有很多連中者 這裡是行動不便的人他們要去投票所來投票 有一些困難那這是看一下我們的投票所的設定 因為國內的情形不一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
8972.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
8983.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
我們現在如果全國性的打算投票票數全國大概差不多1.7至1.8萬這比1.8萬人進行已經增加很多了就是說運動分流讓大家投票更方便不過啦因為受到這個不管是說廣州人員的限制還有地方這個投票數的設定違定的這個限制定定 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9001.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9011.541 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
要設到說讓大家都很方便很安逸在我們家旁邊就可以投票這實際上有困難這個必須要配套怎麼樣子配套就是剛剛委員所提到的不在即投票要配套我們現在是必須要在投票日當中你要親自去到投票所來投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9024.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9040.221 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
那麼這樣子的方式是不是有一個變通的可能空間這個必須要繼續去研議那這個選舉的不在即投票這部分這個內政部他們也有在研議當中不過這些都是看小看闊那我們希望社會大家再及時廣益這第一點跟委員長報告第二點關於住民這個問題關於住民的不在即投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9052.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9080.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
那有關於這個投票秘密的這個保障的部分委員也了解我們做很多努力錢拜託 盤拜託甚至是要求另一個這個指標各地選委會你就是要給我提供到多少就多少大家很努力但是這也要尊重投票權利他自己的意願就對了所以有些原住民朋友你要說我把你移到什麼地方去他可能也有他的考慮不方便的地方 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9080.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9093.992 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
至於能不能夠同樣的用不在籍投票來解決這個問題回頭回來 跟第一的問題一樣這必須要當完的可能是 希望我們也是因為這個議題我們講很久也討論很久 希望我們繼續來努力因為在去 其實今天有講到說包括我們這個中選會推動這個公投連署的電子化那也在研議這個罷免電子 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9104.842 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9124.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
連署的電子化我相信我們中選會有意願推動電子化的這個連署的代表什麼代表我們有這兩項處理我們資安 隱私跟境外干擾這些風險所以未來也期待說可以超這風險我們來處理因為我們知道高齡化的社會已經是趨勢了未來遇到的情況只會更多 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9125.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9141.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
那我希望說 包括人民來的 人民希望說不只是投票是希望我們投票更加方便 更加省事 省一點錢這車輛車賣費有沒有而且這也是我們國家 我們世界的條例那希望我們台灣可以 我們的民主也可以有這種方向來進行 來前進那希望我們主委可以聽到我們國家的聲音讓我們中選會可以以變民公平的原則我們再加緊 加速我們的加薄 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9153.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9171.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
讓我們台灣的投票制度可以更進步我們真的可以落實到這個憲法保障這個投票權那在這裡最好也節目一段時間跟主委說感謝主委這段時間的付出主委你也辛苦謝謝主委謝謝謝謝我們感謝黃建平召委跟我們這裡陳冠廷委員質詢沒關係先給他先給他 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9182.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9196.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
我們請主委主委好 其實回應一下不在即投票我覺得還是要再特別強調 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9198.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9213.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
不管是美國還是韓國多次在對台灣的這種投票的制度都是非常肯定的是在籍或不在籍另外一個我們要考量的就是說比方說在這地方選舉縣市首長選舉 村里長選舉他本身居住在此地 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9214.034 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9237.593 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
那在這邊投票因為跟他的生活跟他的社區直接相關所以我認為在即投票才是我們可以努力的方向這也是最符合現在公平性也可以減少爭議性的方式因為我們可以看到基本上很多民主國家每一次在不管是電子投票也好或者是不管是郵寄投票等等不在即的方式總是會有很多社會的紛爭紛擾如果連台灣這種一票 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9240.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
9265.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
一票票在本地在籍的狀況之下都還會有人來質疑其公平性的話那何況如果是不在籍的話我不知道說未來會不會有更多的這種爭議所以基於國家安全的理由基於人民主權的理由那還有各種的這種行政上面的這些程序我們都認為說現階段在籍投票還是比較符合全國的最大利益 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
9266.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
9293.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
我必須要再回答另外一個我可能要再請主委要我從上個會期一直講到現在就是在錯假亂訊息的混淆這個是2024年的時候某一個非執政黨的選舉人故意混淆他把民主進步黨跟他的總統跟副總統候選人全部放在一個然後來去暗示說這個是由執政黨所支持的候選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
9294.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
9302.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
這個東西我已經不止一次跟您說了那除了這個在南部各縣市從高雄到嘉義在台南都有類似的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
9304.019 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
9331.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
那我就更不用把俄羅斯的一個相關他們在不公平選舉舞弊的這個狀況出來他們也是用同樣的方式就是假冒是民主黨民主陣營的這個就是非普丁陣營的這個候選人然後讓他暗示說他是支持的所以就是說這種混淆的狀況其實已經不僅僅傷害到台灣的民主政治它也傷害到每一個政黨因為我注意到除了傷害到執政黨之外在最近的一些選舉彼此之間都有類似的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
9332.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
9355.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
所以為了最大的公平性我一直希望您能夠來好好的去思考單一選區如果該黨的主席已經支持該黨的候選人了他就沒有可能去支持其他政黨的候選人國民黨也是 民進黨也是因為這是單一選區任何其他不管是他是用無黨籍的身份來去假冒或者是暗示這樣的支持的那必須要有所防治 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
9356.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
9375.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
所以我上次在提出修法的時候我就說去年五月我提出修法的時候我說未經政黨同意非政黨推薦者不得使用該政黨負責人的姓名頭像及政黨標章是因為過去我們從民主化到現在總是會有這樣子的狀況出現所以我們希望去修法去來避免這樣的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
9376.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
9397.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
這不是發生在執政黨而已在對在野黨也有有一些為了在執政黨弱勢的選區可能會在野黨用這樣的方式有些在在野黨優勢的選區可能執政黨用這樣的方式這其實是會傷害到這個公平性的也就是說過去這個政黨不是打上真正的對決而是派出第三個候選人去削弱他主要政黨的這個候選人 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
9399.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
9427.853 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
那我們在優勢區或者是我們在弱勢區都會有類似的狀況出現所以我們講的是一個制度的公平性而不是針對任何一個政黨這個我認為說我們必須要好好的檢討因為特別是在多席次的選舉這種混淆的狀況就更加明顯了那這不會只傷害到民進黨也可能會傷害到國民黨因為我們都有遇過類似這樣子的問題那甚至我要講有一次在這種標誌上面的規定可不可以來去 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
9429.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
9448.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
學習一下日本的就是說有定期的這個時間點定期的宣傳點那這樣對大家來講都可以減低我們的選舉成本這是一個可以考量的方式甚至有一次在地方在補選的時候那個時候他們說山區選二號 海區選一號這樣的步調出來但是那一次山區根本沒有選舉 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
9449.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
9476.333 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
你懂我意思嗎就是各種混淆的狀況都會出現所以我們在標誌上推薦人上面我們必須要更加的公平所以我從去年5月然後你說你會提出一個說沒有修法沒關係你會提出一個相關的辦法在行政上面來制止這樣子的這種混亂選舉或者是提供錯假亂訊息資訊的狀況出現但是目前為止我還沒有拿到相關的辦法從去年5月到現在是不是請主委簡單回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
9476.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
9496.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
好謝謝委員繼續關心這樣一個問題的確這是一個不當的行使他的這個言論自由的權利不當的行使因此呢在法律上予以限制禁止甚至是處罰我認為是有必要的但是不管怎麼樣這個是必須要經過立法 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
9499.071 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
9512.843 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
因為它雖然是不當的自由的行使但是它畢竟還是屬於言論自由的一個範疇所以委員提出的法律的修正案這個方向我們認為是正確的這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
9515.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
9538.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
第二点就是说即使这个法律还没有通过了在实务上高雄高分院已经有过一个相似的一个案例就是说你这种情形如果足以影响到选举的公正性的话那还是可以适用选罢法104条的规定来予以处罚 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
9539.242 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
9553.739 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
謝謝 因為其實這是兩大政黨都會遇到的問題因為通常會做這種的就是要影響兩大政黨的所以我在這邊也是我認為這是跨黨派的一個共識就是公平性那既然主委認為說我們可以朝修法方面 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
9554.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
9576.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
去年五月的時候你是說可以從執行方式那我們就會提出相關的建議給你們去看你們可不可以提出相關院版的或者是由我們自己的立法委員來去提出來可是這件事情已經出現了多次在我們的選舉出現過縣市首長的選舉市議員的選舉村長的選舉到公投都會出現類似這樣的狀況我們不要這樣混淆好不好公平 當當真正的決戰謝謝委員 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
9582.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
9608.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
謝謝 感謝陳冠廷委員林祖英 林祖英 林祖英賴慧妍 賴慧妍 賴慧妍何欣淳 何欣淳 何欣淳林德虎 林德虎 林德虎蘇清泉 蘇清泉 蘇清泉咱家習新英委員質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
9617.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
9621.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
謝謝主席 本席請我們的李主委請到主委委員好 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
9628.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
9646.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
主委好本席想先接著陳委員陳冠廷委員後面接著詢問剛剛您的答覆是他屬於剛剛陳委員講的很多他屬於言論自由的範圍我是說言論自由的不當行詞所以這應該是違法明明這個選票已經是 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
9651.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
9662.923 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
用假的錯誤的資訊來誤導民眾這一塊我可能先確認還是要用法律來規範如果是地方選舉它是屬於地方選委會的權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
9664.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
9685.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
中選會是不是針對全國性的才是你們的還是怎麼樣縣級以上的選務是由中選會來辦縣級以上所以縣議員是屬於縣議員跟縣長以上的都是中選會所以只有鄉鎮長跟村里長還有代表這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
9686.872 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
9704.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
好 那所以如果是屬於鄉鎮長代表村里長的那就是縣選委會要針對這個情況應該他們要出面來制止這種錯誤的假訊息吧我剛剛提到的因為他是必須要用法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
9705.7 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
9732.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
所以我们现在的法律还不够完备对 法律的规定才能够予以限制那主委 这个已经很多委员一次一次的会期都讲了你们要不要拿出版本但是我刚才提到的就是高雄高分院其实它有一个判决是可以做参考的就是说如果这种情况它危害到选举的公平性的话那是可以适用选办法104条来予以处罚 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
9735.089 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
9757.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
所以還是有約束力但是不夠因為選完了可能被影響了都選完了才判決在那個當下所以接著本席要請教您現在就是不管是境外勢力或者是一些不法人士散播這個不實的訊息 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
9760.249 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
9784.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
來影響我們國內各式各樣的選舉請問這個部分我們中選會在選務中立框架下扮演的角色和權責界線應該要很明確才對所以中選會對於這種散播不實言論假訊息這種情況你們的澄清機制目前速度跟得上 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
9784.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
9803.324 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
我们的速度非常的迅速非常迅速我们从108年开始就有成立这个错假讯息的防治小组你们发现以后你们会做什么动作我们第一个就是在最快的速度最快的这个时间里面我们一定要发澄清稿 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
9804.586 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
9818.801 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
你们会公布在哪里我们的网站我们的脸书我们甚至于还要跟行政院的专区要联系可是你们那样还是被动因为你公布在那民众他不会主动看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
9819.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
9844.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
所以是有疑慮的人他去查他去主動去查或者是有些人他把你們的網站訊息推播別人才看得到大眾才看得到我們會有管道來收集這些東西發現了它是錯假訊息的話除了我們立即的這個澄清包括圖卡淺顯易懂的一個澄清之外 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
9845.311 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
9872.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
我们也会跟平台业者来我们有一个绿色通道平台业者所以你们也会跟平台业者那当然跟平台业者我们有绿色的通道那我们会要求他你应该要查明事实你应该要下架你应该要限职阅览等等限职阅览等等这个是限级以上的你们都可以进行吗如果有反应假信息都可以不包括甚至于包括限级的都可以好 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
9873.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
9890.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
那現在因為很多的戰場我想主委您了解在LINE在YOUTUBE在IG在TRADE所以我們中選會有沒有建立這麼多元的管道有分眾溝通這些都有那還不錯很好那接著成效也不錯下架的這個層數蠻高的那接著就是 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
9900.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
9925.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
有關中選會作為這個選務機關我們常常也有境外人士或國內不法人士他介入那有些是影響到這個可能他都利用國外的網站弄進來的那我不知道中選會你跟國安檢調檢警調的體系有沒有建立一個制度化常態性的橫向的聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
9926.794 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
9949.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
因为有些国外的网站你就没办法了如果是牵涉到国安的部分我想国安机关他们都有在监控所以不用你们这边跟他们互通他们自己会主动吗在选举期间应该不会吧当然牵涉到国安的话他们都会主动不是牵涉到国安我是牵涉到国外网站进来干预我们的选举 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
9950.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
9965.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
這種情況應該是你們吧如果是跟國安相關的話我們也會把這個訊息要傳達給國安相關的機關對嘛 你們傳達嘛那我現在問的是你們有沒有建立一個制度化常態性的跟這些國安檢警調單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
9967.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
9987.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
建立这方面的横向连续的预警机器选举期间各相关的机关有一个联系的平台尤其所谓的检警联调的这个联系的平台都会交换情报好 最后的时间本席要跟您请教 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
9990.24 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
9998.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
這個我們看到行政院永續會的網站上羅列了各部會永續發展目標自願檢視報告獨獨漏了我們中選會 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10003.407 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10020.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
为什么为什么中选会自认业务跟永续无关吗完全没有中选会的啊是为什么我们的业务比较单纯跟他这个汇报的性质大概有一些主委你这样讲就有一点官僚体系的谢责 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10022.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10048.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
現在您是主辦全國大選影響國家治理整個治理的這個機關啊你知道選舉結果影響很大那你怎麼可以沒有給自己一個永續發展的策略跟績效報告我們在內部的這個管控是有的啦不行啦我可不可以要求你們能夠在一個月內提出來因為我看到這個聯合國的S |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10052.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10081.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
DGS裡面第16項促進和平包容的社會建立有效負責且包容的制度選舉制度非常非常重要對我們全民對我們國家治理都影響很大倒是這部分我們在世界的這個排名尤其是這個英國經濟學人報的排名連續幾年我們的選舉相關的指標都10分了好啦我們現在要求啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10081.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10110.031 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
要求主委你可以在這個一個月內正式提出中選會2025年永續發展目標自願檢視報告可以嗎好 我會交代我的同事送膠本委員會我會交代我的同事但是到時候報告不是我了不是啦 要提出來啦沒有問題可以喔那也謝謝主席麻煩這一塊我們能夠列入我們的這個重要的會議紀錄主委承諾可以嗎我會交代下去 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10112.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10132.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
你自己要領導吧不是說不是啦我的意思說整個中選會現在要來進行好謝謝感謝施行委員執行我們請侯孟楷委員執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10143.43 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10164.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
主席謝謝麻煩請李主委請主委主委好主委延續剛剛學委員的意見那您剛一直提到之後你會交代下去但本席也知道是說現在有6名委員包括您本人是任期到11月3號 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10165.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10193.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
那到今天已經是10月8號了那不到一個月的時間照理講過去我們相關的獨立機關如果說人事有需要做送立法院審查的話差不多是三個月前就會提出人選那就您的了解因為早上你已經有受訪但是我們還是想要請教到底現在問題出在哪邊是行政院長找不到人還是大家沒有想要擔任中選會的一個職務還是說在等誰點頭開口 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10196.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10220.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
我所知道的是行政院非常積極的在尋找適當的人選至於為什麼到現在這個他進行的程度我兩任已經屆滿了所以你也沒有辦法再留任不行那其他的部分那有沒有諮詢過你有沒有推薦的人選 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10222.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10241.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
行政院他的这个征询人选的管道非常的多所以有包括你吗其实我觉得你很合适啊过去两任八年的一个时间两任的一个时间如果说你认为说哪一个选务人员是主委可以担任的那院长没有说想要来了解一下你的这个意愿 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10242.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
10260.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
了解一下你的推薦還是說你會擔心不是我們尊重院長他的權限那你不會擔心說如果說11月3號到了結果人選還沒有出來因為送進立法院我們還要內政委員會排人事的一個審查公聽會甚至還要在院會 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
10260.709 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
10279.47 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
所以如果說最快最快時間今天送進來可能也都沒有辦法趕到11月3號那到時候中選會業務會不會有相關的一個交接 清黃不接那應該是三個月前就要提出來啦第一點就是說我相信行政院應該近期之內就能夠把人選給送進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
10280.911 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
10302.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
那行政院送進來之後也希望立法院能夠讓選務能夠無縫的接軌所以在很快的時間裡面能夠審查 完成審查我相信您也可以認同這不應該是勤勞立法院我們都希望是說政務可以無縫接軌可是重點在於是你提出的人選好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
10303.519 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
10322.059 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
是不是公正客觀聯名讓社會大眾能夠信服那還有更重要的是你應該提出人選的時候就應該提出來啊那過去為什麼以11月3號到期來講應該回推8月就要提出人選那為什麼那時候沒有提出來是不是那時候還在看726 823的一個結果 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
10326.122 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
10343.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
726823已经过很久了是过很久了已经过很久是啊但是本席更想问的是如果说过那么久了为什么到现在10月7号都还没有新的中选会的人选名单出来所以因为过了很久这是谁的责任所以不是因为这个726823的原因所以这是谁的责任还是行政院长吗因为只有他有提名权吗 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
10349.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
10376.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
主委我再請教一下今天我們也看到這個相關的一個選務報告那其中辦理公職人員罷免法的一個部分在這一次整個公職人員罷免法的一個辦理完畢之後有沒有任何選務不中立的狀況選務中立這個是我相當有信心雖然這一次的這個罷免潮風風雨雨但是這些所謂的風風雨雨都跟選務無關都跟選務無關 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
10377.83 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
10405.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
但在这过程当中大家难免还是会觉得说中选会是有下指导旗之嫌其实就中选会是应该要下指导旗但是中选会但是不能影响到最后的一个结果中选会是主管机关中选会不能影响到最后的结果必须要负责监督我们的所属的机关你是要选务中立你是要监督选务中立我们就讲最直接的到目前为止我们就是要看好他要走正轨不要怕被骗了 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
10406.207 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
10422.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
但是目前但是我們就怕的是說中選會真的是太限制了為了想要達成某個目的或是某個結果所以說太限制了選民的一個洪委員你耳目很多你具體的事實跟我講我來檢討哪個地方有疑慮我們來檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
10423.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
10437.652 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
本席到現在到地方上還是很多鄉親講到這一次的這個罷免案都會講是說連踴躍投票都不能踴躍這真的不知道是說我們中選會在下什麼樣的指導棋 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
10438.499 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
10463.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
我們鼓勵大家多多參與公民活動鼓勵大家多多出來勇於發聲鼓勵大家多多出來表達自己的意見跟主張結果踴躍投票兩個字不能使用其實這就是某種程度上讓大家看到說中選會身為一個中央主管機關但是實際上是想要為了特定的結果或是目的來去做服務選務制度的這個宣導那是可以的啦大家踴躍的 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
10468.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
10497.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
但是一旦是進入個案的這個對立大家在競爭的時候每一個每一方的考量都不一樣有些人希望投票率高一點有些人希望投票率低一點所以這個時候中選會我們不要去陷入到正反雙方的一個爭主裡面去主委我說實在您在政壇上算前輩但是我說實在話其實您這樣的講法真的不是一個正當的講法 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
10498.18 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
10518.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
我也想要利用這個機會跟我們所有的中選會的同仁不管是我們的委員到11月3號要離開但是中選會的基石還是所有的公務同仁要來做協助公民社會 一個成熟的公民社會能夠鼓勵大家勇於表達自己的意見主張投票 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
10520.188 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
10529.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
投贊成票 投反對票或是他有去做投票行為動作這其實某種程度上都是鼓勵大家的表達公民的意見跟主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
10530.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
10556.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
如果說用什麼投票率高投票率低然後大家的考量然後還有我們中選會都還要來介入的話那其實我想中選會已經逾越了這樣子中選會在這一波的罷免潮裡面我跟全國的選務人員有一個要求我們一定要扮演一個穩定的力量所以中選會必須要非常的謹慎不要讓任何一方可以把我們的選務來作為一個議題 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
10560.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
10579.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
來發動彼此的攻擊包括所謂的是不是踴躍投票這一點看起來真的跟過去跟現在的那個態度是差很多啦所以其實主委意義貫之 意義貫之剩一個月不到的時間啦我還是希望就說這個離開的身影也要讓大家懷念啦那 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
10580.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
10602.362 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
還是強調本席站在這邊因為我們還是會持續的要監督中選會那也希望你能夠帶回去 也希望你能夠繼續支持啦該支持的我們一定支持讓中華民國好的我們一定支持讓台灣2350萬人生活穩定的我們一定支持但是我們也希望主委能夠帶回去要求行政院或是 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
10603.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
10615.747 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
請求行政院趕快提出人選讓我們立法院能夠做實質審查我會要求我們的選務同仁繼續扮演著民主社會的一股穩定的力量選務一定要絕對中立謝謝委員謝謝我們感謝侯孟楷的精神 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
10627.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
10634.414 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
我們定期發言的委員除了沒在現場以外全都已經發言了我們現在這次結束委員裡面有林德福、吳啟明 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
10643.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
10668.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
定學中已提出書面諮詢列入紀錄刊登公報書面諮詢及未答詢的請一星期以來的書面答詢及複製於本會這次會議到現在結束現在散會謝謝大家大家辛苦了 |