| IVOD_ID |
16921 |
| IVOD_URL |
https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Full/1M/16921 |
| 日期 |
2025-10-07 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼 |
院會-11-4-3 |
| 會議資料.會議代碼:str |
第11屆第4會期第3次會議 |
| 會議資料.屆 |
11 |
| 會議資料.會期 |
4 |
| 會議資料.會次 |
3 |
| 會議資料.種類 |
院會 |
| 會議資料.標題 |
第11屆第4會期第3次會議 |
| 影片種類 |
Full |
| 開始時間 |
2025-10-07T08:31:22+08:00 |
| 結束時間 |
2025-10-07T17:04:00+08:00 |
| 影片長度 |
08:32:38 |
| 支援功能[0] |
ai-transcript |
| video_url |
https://h264media01.ly.gov.tw:443/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1M/8398b1826590a60967863263ded014234f7cda26dcb539f82eb94a68550f7b5b4ba5065a45335e125ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8 |
| 會議時間 |
2025-10-07T09:00:00+08:00 |
| 會議名稱 |
第11屆第4會期第3次會議（事由：一、行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢（10月3日）。二、對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢（10月7日）。三、10月3日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。四、10月7日下午2時15分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。） |
| 委員名稱 |
完整會議 |
| 委員發言時間 |
08:31:22 - 17:04:00 |
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1755.458 |
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報告院會現在繼續開會對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢在進行質詢之前先請秘書長報告部會首長請假請醒 |
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1769.602 |
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1789.003 |
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報告院會行政院來函暨政務委員連程本日應公請假外交部林部長佳榮本日上午應公請假由陳市長名其代表列席國家科學及技術委員會副主任委員陳文本日上午應公請假由林副主任委員華正 |
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1789.663 |
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1817.829 |
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代表列席行政院公共工程委員會陳主任委員金德本日應公請假由陳副主任委員韋翔代表列席公平交易委員會陳代理主任委員志明本日應公請假由林委員慶堂代表列席宣讀完畢好 謝謝秘書長現在請副委員坤崎翁委員小林及林委員欠期聯合諮詢 |
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1853.576 |
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1855.838 |
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這一次光復鄉馬太安溪夜色湖 |
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1882.759 |
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1911.134 |
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所發生的潰壩事件造成可能20個人以上的罹難全國國人都在關心這個不幸的事件我想今天我們要好好來檢討讓這樣的悲劇以後不可以再發生 |
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1912.847 |
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1938.132 |
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政府有足夠的時間做因應的準備但是我們的國家卻沒有專注在這裡造成這麼大的不幸的事件我想今天我要就教的部會很多首先先請農業部 人民會 經濟部 |
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1941.021 |
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1961.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[6].text |
交通部 衛福部 國防部 內政部第一位請袁明慧 請上來來 上面的部會首長七位部長七位 七位部會首長請備詢第一位請袁明慧 主委 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].start |
1967.861 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].end |
1993.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[7].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝我們先就剛才委員的要求的部分原民會先請嘛 對不對原民會交通部原民會交通部哪一個原民會交通部衛福部衛福部這三位先請 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].start |
1996.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].end |
2023.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[8].text |
其他部位請一樣準備這次馬太安溪驗射壺潰壩事件發生之前請問原民會有什麼積極的防災準備相關的措施有哪一些原民會有做了哪一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].start |
2025.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].end |
2053.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[9].text |
我們有跟這個就是有關原住民部落居住的地方我們特別請縣政府的原民處馬處長這裡是不是可以先跟部落的講就是說這個潰壩了之後在之前就趕快跟這個協助部落做策略原民會是請縣政府原民處跟部落先來商量如果潰壩的時候要怎麼來處理來 交通部 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].start |
2055.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].end |
2082.88 |
| transcript.whisperx[10].text |
是 報告委員在潰壩之前有什麼積極因應作為我們收到了有可能會溢流的狀況之後我們先早上先做封橋的動作什麼我們早上先做封橋的動作也就是說確保這個如果有溢流的狀況的時候就是9月23號早上做我們早上收到訊號大概中午左右就開始做封橋的動作早上收到訊號中午左右 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].start |
2083.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].end |
2096.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[11].text |
所以去封橋 來 請衛福部跟委員報告在這次風災我們例行性的都會先做預防性測離聯絡衛生局 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].start |
2100.413 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].end |
2126.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[12].text |
有一些列管的名冊那麼希望預先的撤離然後有擴大警戒範圍的時候會再提醒一次那同時呢那麼在這個收容安置的部分那麼也請準備好這個收容中心那麼對於這個需要預防性撤離的災民妥善安置所以就是原有的收容中心嘛原有的收容中心嘛謝謝三位部長接下來 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].start |
2131.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].end |
2135.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[13].text |
請經濟部 農業部 防部經濟部 農業部 國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].start |
2160.017 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].end |
2167.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[14].text |
國務委員好請經濟部請教一下在葉澤福潰壩之前經濟部有什麼因應作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].start |
2169.46 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].end |
2195.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[15].text |
因為經濟部有參加中央應變中心所以中央應變中心的指示我們經濟部都照常來辦理主要就是已經把先前河道的清淤40萬噸也把堤防加高了而且加固了堤防的覆土的加寬然後頂快把玉部的缺口還有防線相關的機器已經把它佈建好 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].start |
2196.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].end |
2206.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[16].text |
所以撤離的部分有沒有什麼因應作為撤離的話不是我們經濟部所主管的範圍來 請國防部 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].start |
2210.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].end |
2237.046 |
| transcript.whisperx[17].text |
國防部的部分就是我們國防部本身會設這個差異應變中心在國防部裡面做一級開設那第二個就是我們立刻就興起了前置指揮所的一個設置然後由陸軍的副司令來擔任組長那二專區的指揮官來負責這個當地的這些應該要協助的工作那我們在之前預置兵力 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].start |
2237.606 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].end |
2264.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[18].text |
如果有進行強制性撤離的協助進行強制性撤離的必要的時候國軍就會投入來進行協助預支兵力我們一向就會預支兵力在颱風來的時候有沒有具體計畫我們預支的兵力就先由專案區本身來預支另外我們AAV管就是相關的海軍陸戰隊的AAV管也會派過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].start |
2266.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].end |
2275.105 |
| transcript.whisperx[19].text |
這個要地方提出需求我們就會進行協助有關撤離的部分農業部有什麼進行積極作為 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].start |
2276.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].end |
2304.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[20].text |
跟委員說明那個驗債務在7月26號我們就成立應變小組那成立應變小組以後我們分別針對霸體本身跟霸體以後可能會產生的這些影響我們召開了兩次的專家的會議然後兩次的跨部會的協商會議針對霸體的部分其實我們透過專家也分析了霸體可能移除的方式也沒做了評估然後針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].start |
2305.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].end |
2320.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[21].text |
後面霸體可能造成一些溢流造成潰堤的這些可能的災害也做了分析包括它在晴天溢流在好雨、颱風或者是地震的時候它的災情的一個模擬 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].start |
2321.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].end |
2349.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[22].text |
那針對總統的部分我們也跟了地方政府特別是我們也針對可能潛在的光霧區地區裡面開了四次的講集跟座談我們也拜會了縣市政府希望說他們能夠盡快的擬定相關的這些撤離的措施那災後以後我們第一時間我們針對農業的天然災害我們啟動了所謂天然災害的本期在問你潰壩之前 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].start |
2350.626 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].end |
2373.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[23].text |
請你不要亂扯好不好所以潰壩之前你跟地方開了兩次會做監測就這樣我們有跟地方政府隨時讓我們的這些資訊讓地方政府知道我們請內政部部長備詢其他部長請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].start |
2396.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].end |
2425.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[24].text |
委員好請問部長回答一下在驗射壺潰壩之前內政部有什麼精進作為報告委員撤離的部分報告委員其實我們是跟華家沙台風一起成立災害應變中心指揮官是誰應變中心一級開設的時候是我本人來擔任指揮官有什麼撤離的應做有沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].start |
2426.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].end |
2443.044 |
| transcript.whisperx[25].text |
報告委員在華家莎成立一級災害應變中心之後其實我們就有提示到包括氣象署或者是相關NCDR提到說這個馬太安溪的上游的艷澀湖可能會在這次的颱風呢達到溢流或者是潰壩的一個程度 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].start |
2443.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].end |
2467.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[26].text |
所以我們大概從九月二十一開始至少就有十次以上做傳真通報希望能夠跟花蓮縣政府一起來執行疏散撤離的部分九月二十一後十次通報待會我們再來研究怎麼通報好 謝謝請卓院長來 卓院長請備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].start |
2481.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].end |
2508.217 |
| transcript.whisperx[27].text |
副委員 林委員 翁委員好剛剛有聆聽到您的內閣七個部會對於馬太西艷澀湖潰壩之前撤離的因應作為都已經在國會殿堂清楚說明請問您聽到了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].start |
2511.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].end |
2522.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[28].text |
聽到了沒有聽到了剛剛齊瑋 聽到了聽到了這就是他們的撤離疏散的因應的作為是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].start |
2523.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].end |
2544.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[29].text |
我投給委員答覆的或許是重點的答覆但手上有一份詳細的資料從事件開始開始偵測這個驗社府的情況之下我們做了無數多次的會議當中多次提醒要撤離多次要求要最高安全標準尤其在9月21、22、23委員你也記得9月23我曾邀請領導應援中心謝謝院長的最高標準安全撤離 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].start |
2552.679 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].end |
2580.505 |
| transcript.whisperx[30].text |
請問一下院長你知不知道你所管轄帶領的這個政府由土石流及大規模崩塌防災疏散避難作業規定你知道嗎政府有相關的規定都在因應所有的天災利變你知道嗎我們在討論的時候看過這樣不過今天你知道嗎知道你知道好我們播放一下你在這裡施政總報告的時候的要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].start |
2583.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].end |
2587.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[31].text |
是您的要求大聲一點您到立法院來施政總報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].start |
2613.817 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].end |
2641.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[32].text |
說要救責本席在第一時間就響應你要救責就應該好好來救責我們就疏散救責的部分本席讓你知道一下貴院所訂定的疏散土石流基大規模崩塌防災疏散避難作業規定第三條 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].start |
2647.591 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].end |
2672.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[33].text |
原理疏散避難計畫疏散避難計畫包括避難訴求的選定還有疏散的路線由農業部 人民會 國防部經濟部 交通部 衛福部 內政部 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].start |
2674.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].end |
2680.838 |
| transcript.whisperx[34].text |
佛島地方政府選定疏散路線避難收容處所你們的避難計畫書在哪裡這七個部會什麼時候跟地方政府討論過要避難要疏散路線收容處所8600人那疏散避難計畫在哪裡院長請回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].start |
2704.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].end |
2728.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[35].text |
8月12號已經有過一次規模比較小的疏散的動作了那是因應洋流颱風之後所以你到現在為止都還沒有搞清楚北溪請教你8600人的疏散避難計畫在哪裡一個部會是不是有討論過跟地方政府北溪在說話 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].start |
2733.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].end |
2762.282 |
| transcript.whisperx[36].text |
我先問你這七個部會跟地方政府什麼時候討論過8600人的疏散避難計畫什麼時候地方政府已經在跟總統的視訊會議當中由副縣長說他已經完成疏散沒有嗎疏散避難計畫你能避難疏散的路線避難計畫都沒有我就跟委員報告了你從來沒有做過這個計畫 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].start |
2764.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].end |
2772.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[37].text |
然後叫地方政府去做8月19號之後就要求地方提出8月12號之後就要求地方政府提出疏散計畫8月12號13號8月12號13號虧你還有臉講出來8月12號13號好 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].start |
2782.247 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].end |
2808.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[38].text |
八月十二號十三號九月二十二號副縣長跟總統的視訊他已經說他完成疏散人數也都對啊那個是相公所報上來的這是基本常識所以沒有疏散嗎請問地方疏散執行單位是哪個單位知不知道地方政府要負責疏散計畫知不知道地方政府到今天你還不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].start |
2809.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].end |
2836.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[39].text |
委員 我們追究責任不是在撇清責任好不好我們共同追究是誰的責任我請問你嘛 災害防救法災害防救法寫得很清楚是哪個單位負責執行水災危險顯示地區疏散撤離標準作業程序你搞清楚了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].start |
2839.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].end |
2848.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[40].text |
蘇贊計畫都是地方政府要負責擬定的中央要求地方政府輔導地方政府提出蘇贊計畫這個意思就是地方要提出蘇贊計畫這個沒有錯啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].start |
2852.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].end |
2875.635 |
| transcript.whisperx[41].text |
你的七個部會從來沒有跟地方政府討論什麼叫蘇災計劃有沒有去那計劃通通都沒有四次的跟地方政府也有跟當地做宣導農業部叫地方怎麼做農業部叫地方怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].start |
2878.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].end |
2891.198 |
| transcript.whisperx[42].text |
如果今天院長都還沒有看過這份資料是很苛持的事情9月17號農業部是要撤離多少人部長回答45個人9月17號45個人8月10號多少人請問還有問題你回答就好 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].start |
2904.216 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].end |
2929.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[43].text |
8月12號這裡多少人如果嚴格的講 我們是劃定你們的計畫是多少人數是地方政府統計的我們是劃疏散避離的區域以後他們去考點8月12號的計畫已劃出來的區域是測出多少人不會回答8月12號 院長口口聲聲8月12號 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].start |
2931.879 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].end |
2950.71 |
| transcript.whisperx[44].text |
為什麼農委會發出來的部會 農業部發出來的部會要整理多少人185、600個人 那個時候是為了養有颱風185、600個人 那你們院長一直在扯8月12號那時候沒有畫家在颱風來委員 你這樣逮捕到太多啦8月12號沒有養有颱風 沒有畫家在颱風颱風來的時候當然提高標準啊 這有什麼錯剛剛卓院長講 9月22號 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].start |
2960.738 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].end |
2985.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[45].text |
9月22號 你講得很大聲9月22號要撤離你從600人變成8600人之前所有的討論之前所有的討論都是600人的撤離計畫我跟委員報告 所有驗澀湖的方針是隨時動態的調整跟體量有關是什麼時候通知地方政府什麼時候通知8600人什麼時候通知 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].start |
2991.44 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].end |
3012.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[46].text |
21號6點應變中心開完會以後以正式公文給地方政府這是在應變中心裡面我所了解的9月21號晚上6點發黃色警戒叫做勸你紅色警戒什麼時候開始我跟委員報告那這兩件事情應變中心成立以後是用應變中心的指令為準 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].start |
3017.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].end |
3027.332 |
| transcript.whisperx[47].text |
你現在推到內政部在一邊中心好 內政部什麼時候發紅色警戒我們在第六報的時候有紅色警戒紅色警戒什麼時候第七報 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].start |
3034.551 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].end |
3051.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[48].text |
什麼時間在9月22號下午6點鐘的中央災害應變中心共同議會議之後也有跟花蓮縣政府的副縣長還有縣政府的團隊一起開會紅色警戒是9月22號上午7點9月22號上午7點發了紅色警戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].start |
3062.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].end |
3085.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[49].text |
9月21號還是黃色警戒勸離強制撤離是9月22號上午7點我們再聽就是這張9月22上午7點我們聽一下我們聽一下劉志芳指揮官告訴地方怎麼防災 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].start |
3092.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].end |
3109.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[50].text |
我覺得禁空是一種方式隨時避難是一種方式然後撤離到別的地方是最難的方式如果在原地撤離就是像我們剛剛所說他就頂多下面有自己家門口有一些水淹過了然後過了就算了到時候再來清理家園 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].start |
3113.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].end |
3140.784 |
| transcript.whisperx[51].text |
那個光復鄉雖然看起來需要撤離的人數很多但是最多的大同村大馬村大閥村這個已經超過四五百戶的呢幾乎都是最靠近金華地區然後也可能他們都是兩層樓以上的建築所以如果我們就垂直避難的話就躲到二樓就可以了請問一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].start |
3143.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].end |
3157.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[52].text |
劉世芳指揮官就是家門口淹一些水隨時避難就可以報告委員我們並不是這樣的意思請問9月22號你們決定要測8600人請問你們要測8600人這七個部會跟花蓮地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].start |
3174.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].end |
3182.254 |
| transcript.whisperx[53].text |
的撤離計畫書標準作業程序在哪裡在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].start |
3182.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].end |
3212.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[54].text |
報告委員 中央災害應變中心成立之後包括馬太安溪的所有狀況我們都有跟花蓮縣政府保持保持密切的溝通跟聯繫要不要撤離的計畫從副縣長開始到縣政府各個團隊的成員都非常的清楚因為華家沙颱風所帶來在山上的雨量無法由我們現在來做預報本席沒有請他回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].start |
3213.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].end |
3241.281 |
| transcript.whisperx[55].text |
我們一起問他你的疏散路線8600萬的疏散路線避難收容所選定的七個部會跟地方政府討論的計畫書在哪裡還不只這樣依本法依本法第三條第三項第四款 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].start |
3243.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].end |
3267.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[56].text |
五個部會 內政部 教育部 國防部衛福部 人民會要協助地方政府所有收容所的整備計畫整備計畫在哪裡8600人整備計畫在哪裡整備計畫在哪裡你忙著大罷免 忙著造謠 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].start |
3269.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].end |
3291.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[57].text |
陳俊基也忙著大罷免 忙著造謠你不要隨便講喔你什麼 什麼叫沒有隨便講我什麼時候忙了大罷免你跟我講 我什麼時候忙了大罷免什麼叫沒有忙大罷免什麼丹納斯颱風 什麼預算怎麼樣基金預算根本就沒有刪讀基金預算到今天都沒有刪讀你在講什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].start |
3292.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].end |
3299.37 |
| transcript.whisperx[58].text |
你剛才說 我在忙著大罷免兩位回去 劉院長先來委員 部長先請回繼續質詢劉世旺部長請回劉院長備詢 劉部長也先請回所有這麼大的一個災難 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].start |
3324.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].end |
3353.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[59].text |
您到花蓮第一天9月24號我們看一下9月24號院長說了什麼再來我們要求8月12號這個洋流颱風的時候已經做了第一次的撤離要求做好全部的撤離計畫所以昨天我們要求依照這個撤離計畫能夠徹底的撤離這個工作現在顯然是看到是可瑕疵的為什麼在我們要求撤離的地方為什麼沒有執行撤離 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].start |
3354.395 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].end |
3383.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[60].text |
造成這樣的不幸但是現在不是追究責任我們是要把事情找出來這就是您在災情的第二天到花蓮講的話你連整個事情都還沒有搞清楚8600人的撤離計畫劉思芳指揮官所有的部長通通沒有討論過地方政府也不知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].start |
3384.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].end |
3414.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[61].text |
你連撤離的執行機關是哪個機關都不曉得本席在這裡隆重的告訴你這裡素三標準作業跟災害防救法撤離的單位是哪個單位你到今天還搞不清楚他是依照整個計畫全部做好以後他再來執行然後現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].start |
3415.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].end |
3444.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[62].text |
你說沒有撤離是誰的責任本席剛剛你講得很清楚另外要講8月12號本席就告訴你8月12號什麼事情當天院長當天經濟部農業部跟花蓮縣政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].start |
3445.117 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].end |
3468.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[63].text |
光復相公所開會 您知道嗎開會內容是什麼 您知道嗎來 我們來放一下我們先看8月11號的會議決議會議決議夜色湖水量從200多萬立方到2000多萬到6000萬立方 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].start |
3474.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].end |
3492.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[64].text |
加上颱風的雨壓一旦潰壩金銅土石流爆發後果不堪設想西邊缺口沙包強度一定要夠做了沒有 議長做了沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].start |
3493.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].end |
3521.882 |
| transcript.whisperx[65].text |
你今天要在這裡我們要談的是當天的狀況請問做了沒有嗎我們當然做了一些要求地方政府能夠配合的事情撤離計畫 撤離的實施當然就是地方政府經濟部管的經濟部管的提防叫地方政府如果沒有做的話這樣的院長沒有做的話9月22號早上8點馬來西的提防什麼時候歸地方政府來管如果沒有做的話9月22號早上8點光復鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].start |
3523.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].end |
3547.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[66].text |
民政課的邱先生為什麼會說下午一點開始撤離 入月前可以撤離完畢現在在問您的是為什麼開口題的補償經濟部為什麼沒有做到開口題是讓內水要出去的上游下來的水進來要內水要出去的平常就有這個開口題我們看9月17號 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].start |
3551.607 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].end |
3565.732 |
| transcript.whisperx[67].text |
農業部的報告已經提醒經濟部提醒經濟部看清楚這是政府的報告 農業部的報告就已經告訴你會從這兩個開口題進來光復題開口 光復題房開口題為議員會從這裡進來 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].start |
3576.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].end |
3601.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[68].text |
結果就是從這裡進來 委員你有去到堤防看過嗎我當然去看過 開口堤是好的啊開口堤是好的 因為就從這裡進來啊開口堤本身它也是堤下面2800公尺 開口堤就是從這裡進來旁邊就是佛祖街 委員當時的情況開口堤它的設計是100年可以防洪的標準部長 這個是農業部要求 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].start |
3604.375 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].end |
3628.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[69].text |
農業部提出9月17號的報告告訴你 會從這兩個地方進來連箭頭都幫你畫好了 這是原圖水流哪裡來 從哪裡進去 清清楚楚以這樣的水量跟泥沙 不是從這兩個地方沒有請你回答 不要在這裡狡辯 請回農業部已經提醒你 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].start |
3630.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].end |
3658.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[70].text |
地方政府8月11號的會議紀錄寫得清清楚楚然後委員我要替部長說句話你在這裡只想聽你喜歡聽的答案啊你這裡只想聽你喜歡聽的答案這對部長的答覆並不尊重本席只問他加固加高能夠像災情發生以後哇 這不得了昨天賴總統 前天賴總統去 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].start |
3661.575 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].end |
3682.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[71].text |
阿太溪堤防2860公尺經濟部短期在10月10號完成低到5米的防線10月11號前完成堤防表面強化強固固化防水作業請問8月11號會議決議後為什麼不做 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].start |
3685.234 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].end |
3711.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[72].text |
耐性發生以後才做那個是破壞了2860公尺的地方你不要指鹿尾馬混為一談那跟開口題不一樣所以農業部已經告訴你從這裡進來箭頭都農業部畫的你還在這裡狡辯好 本席再來請教8月12、11號的協議經濟部不做本席再來請教很感動賴總統來什麼都回復正常這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].start |
3717.704 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].end |
3742.142 |
| transcript.whisperx[73].text |
驗社服警戒發布前進協調所提出的報告提出的報告驗社服警戒發布避難他的情境是通報單加CBS加海嘯警報 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].start |
3743.919 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].end |
3765.791 |
| transcript.whisperx[74].text |
海嘯警報8月11號8月11號農業部經濟部花蓮 本席沒有請你上來本席沒有請你上來8月11號花蓮縣政府光復鄉公所跟農業部跟經濟部討論過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].start |
3770.765 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].end |
3778.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[75].text |
就已經拜託他一定要發海嘯警報請問9月23號發了嗎?發了嗎?發了嗎?發了嗎?發了嗎?發了嗎?發了嗎?發了嗎?發了嗎?海嘯警報 中央管的海嘯警報8月11號就做了決議 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].start |
3797.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].end |
3823.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[76].text |
地方政府強烈要求我們發紅色警戒 難道不是要求這次請到你發了沒有 難道紅色警戒委員這次不管嗎紅色警戒紅色警戒行政院的硬座是什麼硬座是什麼紅色警戒要來 硬座是什麼如果沒有要求撤離 為什麼各鄉的鄉民政所都會來提報說他們撤離的時間有的是中午 有的是午夜 9月22號 9月21號 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].start |
3830.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].end |
3837.665 |
| transcript.whisperx[77].text |
你應該請徐縣長一一的問你們所有的鄉財隊不應該在這裡問部長也不應該把災民對你的氣發在部長的身上農業部農業部的資料9月22號還把範圍縮小9月21號下午3點以前這份資料 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].start |
3861.674 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].end |
3867.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[78].text |
潰壩 洪峰95分鐘改為120分鐘從動千259戶改成180戶 院長洪峰120分鐘馬嘆西橋從潰壩到馬嘆西橋斷掉 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].start |
3894.28 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].end |
3910.804 |
| transcript.whisperx[79].text |
早上接近中午的時候大概一個鐘頭多左右吧從潰壩到馬灘溪橋被洪峰下午的時間前後不到40分鐘這個是寫120分鐘院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].start |
3919.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].end |
3948.357 |
| transcript.whisperx[80].text |
中央完全把這些事情清呼既沒有開書站避難計畫會議擬定計畫書還有收容所的整備計畫通通沒有一個光復箱垂直避難門口留點水而已從9月22號上午7點紅色警戒 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].start |
3950.458 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].end |
3975.42 |
| transcript.whisperx[81].text |
光復鄉公所 它是撤離組織機關它要如何去撤8600人 再聽到只是門口淹水只是門口淹水院長 這個就是人禍這個就是人禍到今天為止 你連撤離組織機關 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].start |
3978.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].end |
3996.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[82].text |
貴為宰相隔奎到今天都還不清楚所有中央部會所有中央部會跟地方的協調剛剛我也聽說了中央部會是輔導地方政府完成撤離計畫地方政府沒有完成撤離計畫撤離計畫在哪裡 撤離計畫在哪裡很好 院長講了9月21號 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].start |
4002.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].end |
4015.223 |
| transcript.whisperx[83].text |
光護箱1744戶 萬榮箱8戶 鳳林箱48戶就寫在這上面了 這9月21號就告訴你我跟委員報告 9月17號我們開始成立跨部委計畫的時候本席沒有請你回答 請你不要再鬧髒院長 本席問的問題這麼簡單 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].start |
4024.966 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].end |
4051.64 |
| transcript.whisperx[84].text |
這麼簡單 我們答覆的也很清楚啊你的撤離計畫在哪裡你從600人變成8600人大規模變動你們應該台大已經提醒了中央災害應變中心 台大團隊已經告訴你範圍擴大你們有沒有緊急相關部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].start |
4053.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].end |
4056.667 |
| transcript.whisperx[85].text |
趕快到地方選定避難路線 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].start |
4058.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].end |
4079.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[86].text |
選定收容位置選定整個收容所整個內部的整備委員 委員你撤離計畫地方政府要擬定中央有辦法去到每個鄉去指揮所有人的撤離嗎而且9月21號的下午就要求光復鄉1744戶這個資料委員都不看就喜歡聽委員想聽的答案這種質詢怎麼會導致問題增加好 本席再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].start |
4088.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].end |
4114.538 |
| transcript.whisperx[87].text |
那為什麼有一個村的村長說他完全撤離呢是撤離不撤的問題所以到今天你都還沒有搞懂那個村就是8月12號三個村他其中一個村他已經演練過其他的七個村都沒有演練過各位跟委員報告齁你講一個重點要演練地方政府根據我們也經常都要來輔導是哪些村要來演練我們也跟縣政府討論但是沒有請你來這裡強辯請回 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].start |
4118.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].end |
4146.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[88].text |
你現在請教院長 案發到現在也夠久了他應該能夠掌握狀況不用你到旁邊來 請回我可以請部長在我旁邊等待回答 請回來 部長先請回你可以請民進黨委員讓你來講好 院長 仁熙再請教好 馬太仁熙上游 中游是哪一個部會管的 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].start |
4147.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].end |
4176.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[89].text |
上面是零保署再來是水保署 再來是水利署所以上游中游是哪一個部會管的哪一位上游中游是哪一個部會管的上游是零保啊上游中游是農業部管的對啊 零保署 水保署跟水利署下游是哪一個部會管的你說那個基準點以下那是水利署是哪一個單位是經濟部管的 是不是是啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].start |
4178.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].end |
4205.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[90].text |
上游是農業部 中游農業部 下游經濟部請問馬來西亞的堤防是誰管的開口堤 堤防是誰管的經濟部 經濟部 謝謝葉攝福是誰管的農業部從葉攝福到上中下游堤防通通是中央管撤離是地方政府要做的本期撤離的問題已經跟你討論過了 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].start |
4208.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].end |
4234.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[91].text |
未來你不要想用司法來自我感覺良好自我來包庇你這個案子會永續的追究本席現在告訴我們現在就叫院長上中下游堤防 河川上中下游中央管河川堤防中央管 堰舍湖中央管 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].start |
4237.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].end |
4266.244 |
| transcript.whisperx[92].text |
撤離的部分本教本席就教完現在就來撤離是地方政府要執行請教撤離是地方政府要執行請教救災的部分救災上中下游都是行政院管理縣政府行政院管理體育房行政院管理撤離是地方政府要執行600萬方的土石進到光復埋沒了光復加上水流 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].start |
4271.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].end |
4288.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[93].text |
這個全部都是中央管的就是沒有做好管理 驗生活沒有好好處理現在這麼多的一流的土石 砂石水進到光復市區埋沒了這個地方 誰應該主責來救災 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].start |
4290.865 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].end |
4319.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[94].text |
委員講的都對上游下游 中央部會有管誰應該主責救災該撤離不撤離 該清除不清除誰應該主責救災難怪這幾天全國的人民跟當地的災民都覺得地方政府不存在了你怎麼還在 你把自己當網軍撤役這樣所以現在問你不是網軍面對你的人也是這樣講的啊主責機關應該是誰全部中央管的一流進來主責機關是誰所以撤離要地方政府來撤離 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].start |
4320.472 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].end |
4341.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[95].text |
本席已經就交過撤離了本席在問你救災救災全國人民所有的相關單位都要投入救災所有的部位你不要再敲桌子了不要再敲桌子了本席請教你嘛你為什麼回答不出來嘛我到現場你沒有看到嗎協調所在現場你沒有看到嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].start |
4343.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].end |
4354.293 |
| transcript.whisperx[96].text |
政府沒有做到嗎是訂單政府不負責任我們在搶救生命只有你在搶救政治生命非常不值得再請教一次 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].start |
4355.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].end |
4383.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[97].text |
主席他不回答問題有這樣的行政院長本席請教你救災上中下游通通你管的現在藝族這麼多到光復市區你說叫人命來救災全部政府沒有投入嗎國軍沒有投入嗎誰有所沒有投入嗎主責機關是誰本席請教你這麼簡單的問題都不敢回答你剛剛叫的部會都在救災啊主責機關是誰 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].start |
4385.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].end |
4413.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[98].text |
我們現在前進協調所在主責救災啊我們現在經濟部到政委都提升在主責救災謝謝你終於院長講了一句實話很感謝中央應該主責救災我們是因為地方政府效力太慢所以全部投入我們看一下那你會不會覺得羞愧請問一下莫納克風災 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].start |
4415.967 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].end |
4443.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[99].text |
莫拉克風災請問一下莫拉克風災是誰主責救災是誰是誰從莫拉克風災到現在我們強化了多少中央救災的展示中央應變中心如何強化莫拉克風災誰主責救災救災當然是政府要全力救災中央地方要合作才能救災 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].start |
4444.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].end |
4472.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[100].text |
主責只有一個單位啦其他是由他來指揮啦主責單位是誰莫拉克風在 誰主責就在如果颱風來 主責單位就應該是經濟部經濟部是不是行政院所屬單位那是中央應變中心 現在經濟部因為颱風來 經濟部不是中央內政部就會 歷史中央部會如果是颱風來就會是內政部水災就會是經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].start |
4474.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].end |
4486.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[101].text |
所以都是行政院相關部會主責嘛對不對中央應備中心也是這樣成立的好 尾錫讓你看一下莫拉克風災下午成立前進指揮所中央 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].start |
4487.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].end |
4512.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[102].text |
8月9號馬總統勘災8月9號廖遼乙內政部長擔任指揮官率各部會進駐14天協調地方政府 各政府以及機關投入軍方動員50萬人之救災20天後通過了莫拉克風災重建條例院長 本席對您啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].start |
4514.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].end |
4528.631 |
| transcript.whisperx[103].text |
連回答的勇氣都要本席再三詢問9月23號上午我已經邀請委員到中央應變中心了您才能告訴全國國人原來主責是中央部會 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].start |
4530.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].end |
4544.218 |
| transcript.whisperx[104].text |
我們從來沒有說颱風 水災是內政部 經濟部委員9月23號我邀請你到中央應變中心你應該了解事情你完全在避重就輕那之後我們具有多少的經濟中央應變中心裡面的組織9月24號我們前進協調所沒有成立嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].start |
4560.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].end |
4584.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[105].text |
內政部長什麼時候到在區去他坐鎮中央指揮中心我們第一天9月24號就成立了前進協調所你一定要看到人那我也去啦本席現在隆重的你為什麼不講我也去了為什麼不說總統也去了內政部長第七天才去 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].start |
4585.401 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].end |
4613.329 |
| transcript.whisperx[106].text |
好 第七天那個劉部長 謝謝你本席只是跟他確認你第幾天取交我是跟您補充報告那個是華家塞的中央應變中心請回好不好 謝謝來 部長請委員不要誤會第七天齁反正只是門口應變中心一級開設門口應一點水而已嘛門口應一點水看看過去馬政府怎麼做看看你今天怎麼做 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].start |
4614.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].end |
4633.568 |
| transcript.whisperx[107].text |
救災你看看高雄怎麼做花蓮怎麼做高雄的撤離每次每個人數都很精準是中央負責救災本席在這裡非常的難過非常的難過我們竟然有這樣的院長你在難過什麼而且最難過的是難過你無能 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].start |
4636.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].end |
4662.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[108].text |
你不是難過蔡英明的生命你是難過你的政治生命啦難過什麼今天一位志工一位靈性的志工為了去協助救災感染了因為有傷口感染不幸過世 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].start |
4665.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].end |
4679.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[109].text |
現在中華民國是沒有中央政府嗎有 沒有地方政府 沒有花蓮縣政府就在這麼大的事情剛剛已經講過了是要由中央來主責一個這樣的一個行政院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].start |
4686.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].end |
4711.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[110].text |
本來就是中央主責這麼大的 預防性撤離地方政府要來執行這麼大的災難本身在問你救災現在是在救災是誰主責現在全國都在救災你還在現在全國都在救災中央政府沒有在救災嗎剛剛竟然講這麼可恥的說法由全國人民來救災 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].start |
4713.971 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].end |
4742.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[111].text |
第一時間行政院就應該要把災區中央統籌軍人進駐專業的工兵去做所有的救災的工作9月24號前進協調所沒有嗎你前進指揮所有把整個災區負責了嗎他有經濟部有環保環境部有原民會有花房部四位成立了前進協調所 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].start |
4744.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].end |
4746.95 |
| transcript.whisperx[112].text |
再一次告訴你中央是主責單位 謝謝你已經回答 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].start |
4773.868 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].end |
4793.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[113].text |
早就應該比照莫拉克動員相關的軍警把整個區域做整個規劃這些產值英雄地方政府做什麼事我們非常感謝他到這裡來他們沒有任何的專業 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].start |
4802.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].end |
4831.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[114].text |
但是有這份心台灣最美麗的風景是人這些善良的百姓一起來救災一起來救災發生這樣的不幸的事件本席再提醒你亡羊補牢現在正在清溝請問清溝有多少公里你知道嗎 知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].start |
4831.707 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].end |
4860.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[115].text |
清溝的事情委員昨天前天在花林講過了也答覆過你了本席只請教多少公里您不曉得沒有關係問縣長才會曉得問縣長不會曉得花林有多少地下水溝本席也不會苛責你問縣長看知不知道清溝有30公里主責單位是行政院我們已經確認了這一個我們已經understanding |
| transcript.whisperx[116].start |
4862.021 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].end |
4889.903 |
| transcript.whisperx[116].text |
所以主責單位是行政院現在清溝有30公里清溝是多麼危險的工作在溝裡面有多少種細菌讓這一些產值超人他們是台灣的善心 台灣的愛心你卻可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].start |
4891.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].end |
4915.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[117].text |
不用專業來做相關的清工這麼危險的工作裡面還深達三名院長你的同理心院長早就應該要由行政院來接管你是說 委員是說中央政府要接管花蓮縣政府嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].start |
4916.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].end |
4942.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[118].text |
接管災區接管花蓮縣政府嗎本席已經告訴你這一頁都沒有跳一直都在這裡過去莫拉克風災所以委員是不是正式提出要中央政府來接管你還是用這麼不理性的惡劣的態度在回答本席一再告訴你過去人家怎麼做我們再看看那個賴總統怎麼講的我來看一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].start |
4949.027 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].end |
4975.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[119].text |
賴總統怎麼講的賴總統怎麼講的他到花蓮在區看到那個影片沒有關係賴總統到花蓮說教師節連假來了11萬人喊之英雄11萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].start |
4978.663 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].end |
5006.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[120].text |
院長11萬人有11萬台灣的愛心跟良心三天進到這個地方這又是一個災區剛剛已經救教完主責單位是行政院那這11萬多個 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].start |
5009.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].end |
5034.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[121].text |
這些志工餐食中餐就三天有11萬多要由誰來負責因為有人要送進去送不進去啊由誰來負責一組團要送進去就被阻擋了11萬人要誰來負責我們也成立了志工的聯絡站登記站我對志工的照顧從第二天就開始講 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].start |
5035.21 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].end |
5063.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[122].text |
希望能夠照顧他們的飲用水 便當 交通跟住宿所以你還在狀況外總統來他的報告寫得很清楚這些志工來實際志工安排的狀況志工光10月5號這是行政院的報告 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].start |
5065.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].end |
5081.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[123].text |
10月5號進出站的人數15000人分流志工2600人完全沒有辦法掌握15000人只有2600人由政府來安排 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].start |
5083.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].end |
5110.848 |
| transcript.whisperx[124].text |
其他比較自由自在想做什麼做什麼有些是民間團體的志工我以為你都在現場為什麼要這樣為什麼要扭曲現場的狀況呢有些是民間團體受理志工這是你的報告我正在念你的報告你應該了解現場的狀況有些民間的團體在那邊受理志工的登記大家都有成群結隊的給總統的席任的報告你都還在扭曲那本席沒有關係 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].start |
5114.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].end |
5134.159 |
| transcript.whisperx[125].text |
這就是你的水平這是你的茶餅一萬多份餐食要誰來負責主責單位你已經說是行政院然後再講地方要來負責這些餐食行政院到底主責了什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].start |
5135.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].end |
5161.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[126].text |
我們把事情理清楚行政院從第二天就組成了前進協調所前進協調所受中央應變指揮中心的指揮到前進協調所去協助地方政府這個委員都搞不清楚我一再請教一下我一再請教一下鋪天蓋地的謠言鋪天蓋地的謠言 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].start |
5162.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].end |
5185.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[127].text |
在救災的過程當中鋪天蓋地的謠言請教這個卓院長您對於這個民進黨立法院黨團幾位委員所有攻擊殺傷力的消息要發布搭配你的秘書長張秘書長 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].start |
5189.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].end |
5218.422 |
| transcript.whisperx[128].text |
這個事情被正式公開披露以後全民嘩然在救災的時間民進黨在眼裡要怎麼攻擊地方政府準備要打手院長你的回答本席非常的疑惑你的回答叫做要有什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].start |
5219.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].end |
5245.088 |
| transcript.whisperx[129].text |
要有預防性的什麼要有預防性的這個自我防衛我沒有這樣講過沒有講過要自我防衛沒有什麼預防性的自我防衛你沒有說過我說那個那段講話他有什麼前提我不知道卓榮泰院長自由時報登的 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].start |
5249.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].end |
5266.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[130].text |
中台院長自我防衛前提下的應對方式我說那一段講話有什麼前提我不知道也許出於自我防衛的講法但是我覺得這並不是適當的講法對啊 我都這樣講過我沒有說什麼預防性的自我防衛你把全國人民當敵人嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].start |
5268.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].end |
5295.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[131].text |
我沒有說過預防性的自我防衛喔我說那段話有什麼前提我不知道他也許有什麼自我防衛的用語這個是24號第一時間災情發生第一時間結果院長你說自我防衛前提下的應對方式24號我不是在花蓮跟您在一起嗎所以院長事後自由時報你覺得自由時報是亂寫就對了是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].start |
5297.796 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].end |
5325.245 |
| transcript.whisperx[132].text |
所以那一段講話有什麼前提不知道那可能出一個自我防衛的說法謝謝你自由時報嚴重扭曲執政院長的意思表達是委員扭曲我的講法其實照報章讀給你聽的我沒有講預防性的自我防衛那請教一下在救災過程鋪天蓋地的謠言鋪天蓋地的謠言一再造謠 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].start |
5328.599 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].end |
5350.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[133].text |
請問台灣有沒有災害防救法請問你說哪樣造謠你要去把它指出來啊本席問你們災害防救法造謠跟災害防救法有什麼關係本席問你有沒有災害防救法有沒有國家當然有這個法律啊對於在災害發生的時候有來造謠的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].start |
5358.12 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].end |
5380.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[134].text |
知道嗎災害防救法寫得很清楚處三年以下有期徒刑病科罰金一百萬元災害防救法五十三條第三項請問 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].start |
5385.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].end |
5409.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[135].text |
行政院到現在查辦了幾件有不實消息的傳播我們都要查辦請問你查辦了幾件嘛委員講的哪一件是不實謠言請委員來檢舉啊難道政府一定要等民間來檢舉我們當然司法機關檢調單位會主動發現不法組織單位這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].start |
5416.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].end |
5436.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[136].text |
也是內政部你也是不聞不問既然不聞不問也不知道本席就來請教一下在第一個說這個驗社服沒有通知別再造謠通報單在這裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].start |
5442.079 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].end |
5468.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[137].text |
有第九次通報他秀出的是9月22號上午7點說九次通報花蓮先生結果9月22號這一次是第九次前面的六次前面的六次都是在八月份第七次是白色 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].start |
5470.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].end |
5486.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[138].text |
狀況第八次是黃色警戒只有第九次是紅色警戒有效通報三次第七次你回去看看這個應變中心有相關的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].start |
5489.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].end |
5516.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[139].text |
9月22號早上8點 光復鄉也是回復撤離人數較多 需入夜前才能完成光復鄉這麼回復啊如果沒有計畫 沒有要求光復鄉是為什麼要做這樣的回復鄉公所回復嘛鄉公所回復因為很多人垂直避難嘛再過來第九好 再過來 下一個造謠花蓮先生不惜黨下一組談食材也要發包熱海排骨便當 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].start |
5518.883 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].end |
5540.039 |
| transcript.whisperx[140].text |
熱海排骨便當 花蓮縣政府發包事實是花蓮縣城隍廟聯絡全國的城隍廟買了熱海便當來發的他們已經提告了然後政府就放任這樣的謠言繼續的傳播再過來 再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].start |
5549.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].end |
5578.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[141].text |
幾百台獨輪車放在糖廠倉庫花蓮縣政府啊真的會被花蓮縣政府氣死說花蓮縣政府把獨輪車藏在糖廠不給大家用事實的真相是行政院東辦的倉庫不是縣政府的倉庫再講一次是行政院東辦管理的倉庫 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].start |
5579.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].end |
5609.072 |
| transcript.whisperx[142].text |
那個倉庫我有去過他管理的秩序當天都已經在多數的發放物資也不斷的進來我也去過那個倉庫本席在告訴你謠言跟事實說產值超人忙著救災傅坤奇夫妻跟花蓮縣政府也閒著忙著做貼紙把高壓水槍貼上花蓮縣政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].start |
5610.524 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].end |
5633.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[143].text |
這是人家捐的東西憑什麼變成他們的事實高壓水槍是花蓮縣政府採購的要給所有需要用的人民這些花蓮縣政府依法都會提告 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].start |
5634.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].end |
5657.154 |
| transcript.whisperx[144].text |
但是一個災區放任所有的謠言而主責單位行政院置之不理這不是台灣之詞這是世界之詞這麼大的災難放任這些側翼網軍在那裡造謠本期在這裡我想今天 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].start |
5661.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].end |
5671.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[145].text |
這個救災的部分也問得差不多也確認了 組織機關就是行政院接下來本席請問一下你要確認執行的單位就是縣政府這點你都不敢確認啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].start |
5676.345 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].end |
5699.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[146].text |
主責單位是行政院他可以指揮撤離的執行是地方政府撤離的部分而且鄉公所都已經回報有時間有人數今天已經就教院長完畢但是你久久不能夢回本席還要再強調一下鄉公所都回應了有時間有人數什麼時候撤離 定清楚楚鄉公所怎麼報給你那是因為你的部長說 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].start |
5705.725 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].end |
5732.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[147].text |
你的部長說門口淹一點水你可以垂直撤離所以沒有辦法像8月12號這樣撤離第二你們所有的600人變成8600人的撤離計畫七個部會的撤離計畫動線收容地方都沒有五個部會收容所的整備通通沒有規劃出來撤離計畫地方政府要擬定再一次跟委員說明撤離計畫地方政府要擬定要一起開會來擬定 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].start |
5735.445 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].end |
5755.429 |
| transcript.whisperx[148].text |
從來沒有開過會再來本席現在要請你正視現在驗射壺還在還在他已經從一個深的驗射壺變成一個淺疊型的驗射壺現在我們持續觀測他的水位敬天由命 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].start |
5758.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].end |
5788.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[149].text |
燕射湖如果下大雨的話他當然水位現在在溢出來所以我們計次觀測他的水位同時我們剛剛委員說了我們三道的堤防把它加強起來從兩個禮拜到年底到明年的4月汛期前三道築成築成三道牆的一個防線再把它築成起來我們看一下921草嶺燕射湖921草嶺燕射湖30天完成處置 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].start |
5789.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].end |
5810.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[150].text |
30天完成處置從7月26號這個驗射服的應變指揮中心成立到現在所有的部會都在忙大罷免都在忙著政治操作委員不要再污蔑了我們說過驗射服的罷體相當長骨質相當鬆軟人沒有辦法過去 車子沒辦法過去 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].start |
5818.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].end |
5846.047 |
| transcript.whisperx[151].text |
當時不到1000萬立方甚至有幾百萬立方當時我們也推估10月底他會自然的溢出一直到9月23號你以為以為會自然溢出我們說10月底當時7月的時候推估10月底會毅然溢出當中颱風又來華佳沙颱風來的時候我也請委員到應變中心去看你也了解狀況你當天都很清楚你現在完全不照當天的話講 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].start |
5847.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].end |
5872.696 |
| transcript.whisperx[152].text |
本席現在要再次跟你強調丹納斯風災把嘉義台南這麼多的百姓鄉親的住處屋頂掀掉風很大後來又有些長江他們的災情非常的非常的 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].start |
5873.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].end |
5902.14 |
| transcript.whisperx[153].text |
需要協助所以我們訂定了丹納斯颱風的重建條例現在本席要讓你了解這一次這一次這個晏舍湖潰壩的事件造成的傷害是跟上一次的災情是不一樣的不一樣的原因是佛祖街最高的地方它的土 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].start |
5903.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].end |
5932.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[154].text |
土石流 流在那裡有3米高當時來的大水超過6米所以光復市區所有的幾乎所有的一樓只要插電的東西電器全部毀損汽車全部毀損人民損失 災情慘重重建的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].start |
5935.175 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].end |
5960.448 |
| transcript.whisperx[155].text |
陳進德政委也主動跟北溪聯絡對於主要幾條排水系統要怎麼樣來處置能夠30公里怎麼樣能夠未來能夠長治久安 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].start |
5962.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].end |
5986.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[156].text |
我們謝謝陳進德政委他講的話如果行政院不聽的話大概沒有辦法解決問題比較特別向院長強調法單部落法單部落跟相關的災民不斷強調希望留在光復鄉離災 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].start |
5995.108 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].end |
6015.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[157].text |
留在鄉裡面但是要離災這個重建的工作希望中央政府主責單位能夠完善的處理我們了解89戶的災民他們希望離災不離鄉但是我們如果再一次的評估確定 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].start |
6015.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].end |
6042.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[158].text |
是要跟他們好好做溝通這八十九戶甚至更多在佛祖街如果更多那麼要不要在這個地方做一個選擇或者未來的危險還是存在我們共同來努力這個事情準備所有的災後重建必須跟當地的居民要很務實的坐下來談要很務實的坐下來談所有的細節都要談清楚 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].start |
6044.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].end |
6072.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[159].text |
既然行政院主責所有災後重建我們可以讓您看一下當時莫拉克的重建他的召集人重建委員會的召集人都是行政院院長副召集人都是行政院的副院長才能夠有足夠的力量 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].start |
6073.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].end |
6087.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[160].text |
把重建委員會執行起來完成所有重建的工作所以院長相信你是當然的重建委員會的召集人 是嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].start |
6089.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].end |
6113.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[161].text |
我們如果要組重建委員會依照現在的災防法跟中央應變中心所有的法律我們會有一個組織性目前我們在災害發生時候成立協調所之後重建我們成立前進指揮所這個都是有利可見我覺得委員最重要的是未來要做什麼事情我覺得我們要成立一個東部國土的專案小組國土安全的專案小組東部國土專案小組這個才重要 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].start |
6114.432 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].end |
6138.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[162].text |
剩下對那些很多堆積的瘀泥我們要如何做去化再利用這個也要成立一個專案小組我們必須一個一個來啊本席不反對但是本席要特別強調的是沒有重建委員會沒有專責單位會流於形式很重要的防災總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].start |
6142.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].end |
6151.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[163].text |
應該積極的推動本席在這裡正式的向行政院提出行政院必須提出事權統一的專責單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].start |
6154.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].end |
6180.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[164].text |
這個我已經請陳金德政委就現在雲嘉南前進指揮所的經驗如何用到花蓮 我們成立什麼樣的組織但我說的重要的是剛剛那兩點東部國土安全的專案小組以及淤泥去化循環再利用的專案小組這個才是更為重要這個一定會納入未來大的企劃當中 本席已經隆重表達要成立防災總署 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].start |
6181.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].end |
6202.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[165].text |
這個我請陳金德政委在 又有專責單位不是成立了一堆小組要有專責單位我想尤其在部落的部我們請那個林建啟委員部落的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].start |
6205.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].end |
6225.006 |
| transcript.whisperx[166].text |
院長還有各位同仁大家好我先接續一下我們副委員這邊所講的有關於這個部落我先直接提部落 我想我不知道你們有沒有掌握這個跟教育部 運動部還有園民會都有很重要的關係你們知不知道光復國中整個運動場 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].start |
6227.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].end |
6244.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[167].text |
還有整個球場全部都沒有了現在完全沒有辦法進行接下來本席其實要針對運動部這邊談一些相關的設施還有整個業務的推動但是在災後的這個部分學校的部分還有原住民的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].start |
6245.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].end |
6270.723 |
| transcript.whisperx[168].text |
跟運動設施的這個部分我想是不是在重建未來是非常重要的一塊那現在在救災在針對救責的這個部分是大家所關注的可是從本席過去在高雄縣政府擔任文化局長期間所碰到的莫拉克風災重建的路到現在都還在走所以本席在這邊要先直接的提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].start |
6272.096 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].end |
6290.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[169].text |
看不到的地方跟看不到未來還要再做的這一塊其實是非常重要的請大家不要在這個時候關注災區持續的要去注意災區在未來所發生的隱性的一些問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].start |
6291.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].end |
6306.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[170].text |
謝謝委員我們會復起重建的工作重建一定是中央跟地方要合力來執行的我們才能夠有重建的工作可以順利的進行你剛剛提到學校我們盡量先讓他用視訊的本席這邊先直接指出 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].start |
6306.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].end |
6332.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[171].text |
公布高中整個學校是沒有辦法上課的還有在花蓮的幾乎大部分的學校目前都面臨收災民還有很多物資在分配的一個狀況學生的上課其實目前以遠距教學的方式其實不是長久之計尤其是在園鄉園鄉這個部分在空間的這個部分是非常重要的 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].start |
6333.434 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].end |
6342.3 |
| transcript.whisperx[172].text |
主要就是要做心理跟安全上的一些這個本席其實在上次的記者會已經有先做了一些提醒本席現在來談一下運動部運動部在9月9號正式掛牌至今將近一個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].start |
6348.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].end |
6376.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[173].text |
但是它其實是帶著全民對整個體育的發展寄予這個厚望我們希望能夠我相信李部長您在先前的一個發表的言論裡面也談到希望能夠將長期困擾體育界的一些結構性的問題讓制度也比較透明資源的分配要公平但是近期在各界就有一些聲音我想您應該也有聽到也就是在人事的這個部分有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].start |
6377.613 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].end |
6404.341 |
| transcript.whisperx[174].text |
獨大的一個局面那本席這邊我想您應該是聽得懂的那過去的體育發展呢其實是國體大 台師大 北市大 台體大跟各界不同的學術與訓練系統都有共同參與那相互的來制衡讓資源能夠透過多元的觀點來併進那現在的決策呢人事佈局比較讓人家有一點懷疑是比較集中於一個單一體系 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].start |
6405.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].end |
6432.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[175].text |
會壓縮到其他學術單位與地方教練的一個發展空間那麼尤其是現在在各地的這個設施很多地方都沒有升級比如說尤其是東部尤其剛才行政院長您這邊所提到的東部如果再透過這次災害那未來在重建的過程當中我想這幾個部會都應該要積極的來參與尤其應該把重建的這個部分擺成優先 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].start |
6433.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].end |
6450.408 |
| transcript.whisperx[176].text |
在人事上也應該要做一些比較平衡的發展所以這個是我先提醒行政院還有教育部跟運動部的一點另外光復國中的事情還有在花蓮的各個學校我想教育部 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].start |
6451.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].end |
6462.056 |
| transcript.whisperx[177].text |
應該要趕快來處理那設施的部分我們請運動部趕快就前置的部分來做一個整理那這個部分是不是可以得到兩位簡短的回應好嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].start |
6463.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].end |
6476.798 |
| transcript.whisperx[178].text |
跟我們報告事實上這個災後的第二天我們市長就到現場第三天本席有在現場本席就是看到許多的學校其實都來作為災區的一個配的空間各500萬的救急搶險 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].start |
6482.583 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].end |
6493.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[179].text |
然後馬上我親自打電話給是的 這個是救急嘛本席現在在這邊提醒那所以你針對未來長期的重建你資源的投入現在有沒有一點想法跟概念了 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].start |
6494.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].end |
6512.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[180].text |
跟我們報告我們現在在學校的部分基本上在教學場域大概都已經順利了那現在都可以回去了運動場域的那些空間因為確實衣紗太高他飛短期之間我們先 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].start |
6513.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].end |
6532.876 |
| transcript.whisperx[181].text |
但是不好意思 李部長你也知道我們運動員如果沒有訓練的話但是運動員體育班 關乎國中的體育班事實上我們也都聯絡了東華大學他們願意提這個本席在上個禮拜的記者會就有提到希望大學這邊能夠一起來協助拉 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].start |
6534.356 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].end |
6546.982 |
| transcript.whisperx[182].text |
拉抬高中以下的這個學校但是還有一些一地訓練相關的資源分配還有整個支持的體系是不是可以請教育部 運動部這邊特別專案來做一些處理好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].start |
6548.953 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].end |
6568.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[183].text |
好的 那這個部分本席未來當然一定會盯著因為這是很清楚的個案那本席也知道許多的運動員沒辦法直接在這個狀況下備訓練比委員所想像的還好我想我們的署長全部進駐在那裡所有的進度全部都在掌控中 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].start |
6568.957 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].end |
6592.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[184].text |
好的 謝謝部長那李部長接下來本席要您這邊來做一個正面的回應所以剛才本席所談到的這個問題全面性的這個問題在體系平衡的這個原則下未來您在高階的人事專案的評審委員的領選跟選訓制度上我想這個您應該跟本席一樣非常有感如何來確保不同的體系不同的運動項目都會有代表 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].start |
6593.939 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].end |
6614.095 |
| transcript.whisperx[185].text |
然後大家現在所關注的補助招人為的這個干預的問題你未來可不可以讓這樣子的比例減少甚至到沒有我們現在國體大剛剛委員您報告您是說我們國體大現在有太多人事嗎還是什麼本席說人事獨大本席沒有特別指涉什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].start |
6615.926 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].end |
6637.484 |
| transcript.whisperx[186].text |
本席這邊跟您建議在這個部分您可以借助一些外力來建立一些外部的監督平台讓地方的教練還有基層的運動員有機會參與直接的政策討論然後來確保選訓決策不會被少數人壟斷我們這部分都已經在做了解 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].start |
6639.465 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].end |
6668.655 |
| transcript.whisperx[187].text |
不是只有了解 而是要做到當然 當然 當然我們剛初在選擇這些首長的時候就沒有考慮他是不是單一因為我們是希望他能夠來投入對運動的改革所以我們是拿他的長處取他的長處委員的顧慮我們不會讓他發生一定為人事決策補助各項公平至少整個行政會會要求我們跟體育部運動部站在同樣的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].start |
6668.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].end |
6682.01 |
| transcript.whisperx[188].text |
謝謝院長這邊的承諾那院長在9月9號運動部成立的時候賴總統說過去體育署的預算大概只有145億那麼在運動部成立之後原本大家期待要到200億但是賴總統要給到245億 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].start |
6686.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].end |
6696.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[189].text |
我們現在就這個經費在查查的時候發現裡面太多的東西都沒有計劃所以從145億到245億這樣一個空間本席在辦公室跟你們要計劃有的時候是很難要到但是要讓這樣一個計劃能夠通過我們對人民是必須要負責的 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].start |
6707.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].end |
6726.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[190].text |
所以請運動部或者是過去體育署在教育部下面有的相關的計畫能夠趕快送來要不然這樣預算是很難過的所以本席這邊要指出本席這邊想到了8.7億是你們針對台灣品牌賽事的十大精選計畫請問一下部長這十大精選計畫你們的主軸是要做些什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].start |
6727.506 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].end |
6754.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[191].text |
我們希望說可以讓更多人看到我們台灣比賽版所以是我們要參加國外的這個經典品牌還是要台灣建構自己的經典品牌我們希望有更多的國際賽事可以辦在我們台灣那你們這樣子的一個經費如果國際賽事沒有經過幾年的醞釀你們覺得是來得了嗎辦得起來嗎我們正在做相關的規劃所以請趕快把計畫送進來要不然我們是沒有辦法來執行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].start |
6755.734 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].end |
6769.769 |
| transcript.whisperx[192].text |
來通過你們的預算因為這明顯的違反預算法的一個精神所以這個8.7億是完全空洞的是完全沒有東西我們只看到這個經費的編列但是卻沒有計畫然後本席這邊建議你應該把危機變成一個轉機 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].start |
6773.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].end |
6790.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[193].text |
現在花蓮花東地區的偏鄉本來資源就非常的匱乏然後在栽培的這個重建我們可以透過這樣子的危機把重建當成是一個讓花東地區在未來更可以有資源更多的挹注 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].start |
6792.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].end |
6814.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[194].text |
讓偏鄉的運動員不會因此而流失讓運動部的成立真正成為全民體育的推動而不是只有拿獎牌的樣板跟委員您報告這部分我們都有去了解然後我們也希望說他們在最近有比賽的參與我們會希望說能夠去幫助他們在訓練上還有場地上那未來的重建部分我們有去規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].start |
6816.018 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].end |
6833.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[195].text |
好OK 那麼接下來我想我這邊很快就是剛剛這個副委員這個針對馬薩恩西顏色狐潰壩的事件的究責的部分我這邊要提醒坦白說我今天聽了整場那麼我認為其實到目前為止整個行政院 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].start |
6834.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].end |
6860.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[196].text |
都還在推卸責任到目前為止沒有看到有任何半個政府官員出來道歉負責不要說是法律責任了就連行政責任政治責任都沒有人沒有行政院及相關部會出來做承擔做說明我們看看在2000年發生巴掌溪事件的時候當時游錫堃副院長很負責任的下台了 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].start |
6863.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].end |
6888.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[197].text |
2009年發生八八風災的時候後來劉兆玄院長下台了現在2005年發生了這麼嚴重的光復鄉的洪災事件造成十幾位的民眾死亡多少人受傷多少家庭流離失所院長您現在還有臉站在這個台上嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].start |
6890.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].end |
6912.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[198].text |
我必須要說行政院從來不推卸責任認為你已經榮登中華民國史上最後言無恥的行政院院長到目前為止行政院從來沒有推卸責任立法院的法律通過案七度提出復議失敗又想解散國會搞大罷免短短三個月內發生兩次大洪災造成多少的民眾傷亡和財務損失 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].start |
6914.195 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].end |
6928.141 |
| transcript.whisperx[199].text |
您還在這個位置上我真的沒有想到主委長您是這麼練戰官位行政院從來沒有推卸責任從今天早上到現在我們只有聽到 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].start |
6929.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].end |
6943.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[200].text |
我要說你根本沒有能力做行政院長之後的災後重建我根本也不期待你你很多的事情都沒有想清楚我要再次強調這次的洪災事件是從一開始的風險評估到後來整個的 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].start |
6947.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].end |
6974.406 |
| transcript.whisperx[201].text |
这个紧急的预防通报撤离方案学校军事完全都没有这是昧于事实的讲法在去年11月份的时候连新闻报纸上面都有讲新闻媒体都有报道质询可以质疑不可以昧于事实你完全昧于事实昧于事实的讲法事实就在这里要求经济部的第九核分署要进行提防的抢救工程做到了吗没有做到 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].start |
6975.566 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].end |
7003.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[202].text |
農業部部長還說平房的缺口並沒有壞掉如果委員手上沒有這份資料我會送請委員好好的看看如果委員沒有辦法看到這個資料我送請委員好好的看看我今天要講的說針對這起洪災事故現在行政院有預備要成立專案調查小組嗎檢調單位有沒有啟動調查要趕快收證啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].start |
7005.287 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].end |
7029.04 |
| transcript.whisperx[203].text |
这个未来都会构成什么会可能涉及到刑法的废弛植物罪依据刑法310条的130条的规定公务员废弛植物酿成灾害是处三年以下十年的有期徒刑三年以上十年以下有期徒刑而且不要忘记了还有国家赔偿责任我告诉这个院长还有这个在座的政府官员们 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].start |
7031.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].end |
7054.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[204].text |
國賠法第二條第三條都對公務員待遇侵蝕職務然後造成人民的財產生命有缺失還有第三條公務設施管理有欠缺導致人民的身體人身自由財產受損害者國家要負損害賠償責任我在這裡要警告你們基本上你們未來的行事責任行政責任國賠責任是跑不掉的 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].start |
7056.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].end |
7084.984 |
| transcript.whisperx[205].text |
好 還有我要再講行政院不依法編列預算的問題非常非常嚴重那麼從去年當時就已經不編進房補償的費用原住民進房補償費用到現在也不編軍警費用軍警的自願役加給還有退休金提高的這些費用已經也不編一般性的地方性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].start |
7085.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].end |
7090.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[206].text |
你們是在搞什麼現在行政院是變成違憲違法的怪獸了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].start |
7092.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].end |
7120 |
| transcript.whisperx[207].text |
真的讓人覺得很不恥見行政院這樣的做法你們是帶頭不遵守法律如果說你們今天可以因為釋憲的理由就不去執行政府的預算不依法行政到以後老百姓都可以說我收到了罰單我現在提起行政訴訟所以我也拒絞罰單可以這樣嗎因為法院是開的行政訴訟法怎麼規定你知道嗎因為大法官被你們關起來了 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].start |
7121.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].end |
7150.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[208].text |
到底是被谁关起来是被赖清的总统他提了不适任的人我们是宁缺勿赖你认为找一个不适合的大法官每天在那边只要做出一些不符合人民期待违宪的这个宪法判断是你们修改的宪法诉讼法你修改的宪法诉讼法推你还是学法律的你完全没有依法行政的概念本心对你非常非常的失望那么最后我要再问一个问题请问你的中学我 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].start |
7151.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].end |
7168.93 |
| transcript.whisperx[209].text |
我的憲法一知半解那我告訴你那你根本就是沒讀書好然後呢最後周選會主委馬上等等六位委員11月3號就要屆滿你知道依法幾個月前要提新名單知道知道你聽了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].start |
7170.745 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].end |
7199.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[210].text |
我們有在努力 嘗試做各種的努力所以你這又是在一個你依法不行 你違法你不依法行政的一個非常簡單 非常重要的例子由此可見卓院長你真的要下台如果你還有一點點愛情你的政治生命的話你現在此時此刻你就應該宣布你要下台我在互惠憲法在憲法之前我們都要共同努力請問院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].start |
7201.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].end |
7221.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[211].text |
花了這麼多錢買軍購六千多億的軍購金不來可能會再來救教但是我們支持軍人 支持國防為什麼軍人加擠加薪立法院三讀通過總統府公告而您 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].start |
7222.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].end |
7250.224 |
| transcript.whisperx[212].text |
不實施 實質的問題我們在預算已經增加了59.5億你為什麼不實施嘛程序上的預算立法院大幅的要求行政院增加稅數我一再的要求說明過你要來徵詢行政院的意見指出資金的來源這個都沒有做到啊這麼辛苦的軍人要保衛國家這麼辛苦的警校要守護人民但是立法院三讀通過 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].start |
7251.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].end |
7277.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[213].text |
包括警校退休的待遇的穩定跟提升以及軍人必須保家衛國但是家裡要暗身利益軍人的待遇今年最佳預算59.5億今年的年度預算也增加了170幾億已經達到200多億了都沒有議法來編列我想院長你今天回答已經很清楚了你完全不理會國會 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].start |
7279.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].end |
7304.33 |
| transcript.whisperx[214].text |
也不能夠依法來執法你是一個毀憲亂政的行政院長而且不珍惜軍人跟警囂立法院知道了好 謝謝 我們時間到謝謝副委員 翁委員 林委員謝謝卓院長報告院會休息十分鐘休息之後繼續進行質詢現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].start |
7939.253 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].end |
7956.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[215].text |
報告委員會現在繼續開會現在在議場二樓旁聽席的是台北市立成功高中的同學我們在此歡迎他們到立法院來參訪報告委員會現在我們請林委員國程質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].start |
7988.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].end |
7998.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[216].text |
謝謝主席 我們請行政院卓院長勞動部紅部長卓院長請備詢 還有勞動部紅部長請備詢好 卓院長好好 院長本席一項都是主張 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].start |
8018.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].end |
8046.815 |
| transcript.whisperx[217].text |
我們本黨裡面很堅持的理性務實科顯請你放心我一定針對問題來做執行那我也要懇託卓院長針對問題來回答所以這點我想剛剛一個半小時我看卓院長我必須要提醒你你是中華民國 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].start |
8048.157 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].end |
8072.509 |
| transcript.whisperx[218].text |
最高的行政院長有時候在立法院也不需要動氣我們立法院是談理跟談話的地方所以過去曾經我看到以前的卓榮泰跟現在的卓院長確實是有所差別所以我要再度提醒卓院長我們針對問題來回答問題這個是我執行的一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].start |
8078.015 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].end |
8095.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[219].text |
殷切的期盼我想這應該沒有問題吧我常常說質詢就像一面鏡子一樣我看到的你跟你看到的我應該一樣才對但是如果在質詢過程一再的污衊我們的部長我覺得我有責任替我們部長講兩句話你看院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].start |
8096.456 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].end |
8122.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[220].text |
講一句你又講了十幾句這個就不對等因為我基本上我是絕對尊重行政官員這是我的言者我從議員到現在我都是這個言者但是如果不來電或者答非所問的時候我是勞工出身雖然一身西裝但是我是以事尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].start |
8123.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].end |
8147.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[221].text |
行政院長 所以我特別在這裡要強調希望卓院長能夠了解到每一個人的執行跟問政風格完全是不一樣的院長 我要請問一下我的標題已經講出來了我想我們探討的是整個勞工跟勞保的這些財務的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].start |
8150.049 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].end |
8156.922 |
| transcript.whisperx[222].text |
那我也要希望我們院長我承認民進黨在執政的當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].start |
8158.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].end |
8186.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[223].text |
我要求兩種一 撥補二 確定給付這是勞工罪因應期盼的一個入法所以我要跟你談的是針對這個問題那我也希望 院長要表示你個人的意見對於勞工等等的關懷那這個我想很冒昧請教我們院長你知不知道勞保什麼時候開辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].start |
8189.521 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].end |
8213.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[224].text |
保保開辦的年限喔這個請委員再那個年我沒有辦法記好啦 部長你知道嗎我了解好 來不要 都不要為難兩位39年就開辦了所以39年以前當然是那個遷台之後不管誰執政我想兩大黨都有執政過所以這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].start |
8215.012 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].end |
8243.598 |
| transcript.whisperx[225].text |
勞保的問題我常主張不能怪任何一個政黨但是面對問題是執政黨要來面對所以我特別就提醒一下39年到現在這是一個非常重要的里程碑不管誰執政對勞工他都是基於照顧跟保護的情況這一點我想我們一定要去承認政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].start |
8244.478 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].end |
8260.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[226].text |
另外一個 院長我再請教一下你知不知道現在投保勞工保險受政府來保護的有多少人人數可能到達1000萬以上 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].start |
8265.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].end |
8273.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[227].text |
應該你也不會管這麼細但是我是建議勞工投保人數到七月底是1000 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].start |
8277.974 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].end |
8302.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[228].text |
四十幾萬也將近一千一啦所以就變成我們兩千三百五十萬的人口就變成二分之一通通都有保勞保這代表什麼就代表政府開辦勞工保險確實是有其必要對於勞工的保障確實是有必要所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].start |
8304.062 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].end |
8309.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[229].text |
我要跟你談的就是勞工現在雖然我們民進黨 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].start |
8311.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].end |
8336.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[230].text |
確實是有做到撥補這一點我想身為勞工我看到的我眼見之事實我必然到哪邊我都一定要去陳述另外一個照顧勞工我想撥補跟確定給付確實是院長你也一直在認為說照顧勞工是有其必要因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].start |
8338.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].end |
8358.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[231].text |
勞工照顧是一個政府執政的一個德政所以質疑財務的問題那當然就很重要那我們也承認勞保的問題確實是有所虧損但是虧損的責任不能全部都是勞工 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].start |
8359.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].end |
8386.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[232].text |
因為政府經營不善也要有負起責任所以動不動說勞保要倒閉這一點我是極力反對從前任我們陳院長到現在卓院長我都始終覺得很不服氣的不要動不動政府不負責任的態度就要跟勞工講說勞保要倒啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].start |
8387.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].end |
8411.969 |
| transcript.whisperx[233].text |
當然這個是不負責任的一個執政所以院長我主要的今天要跟你談針對勞保長期法令撥補現在我們卓院長這裡民進黨執政的時候連續三年確實都有撥補一千三百億一千三百億幾百億一直在撥補那另外 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].start |
8413.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].end |
8430.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[234].text |
院長也常講過照顧勞工是刻不容緩政府要負起全部責任所以我今天特別針對我也修改勞保條例66條也就是法定撥補 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].start |
8432.489 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].end |
8456.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[235].text |
那也修改勞保條例69條就是政府要確定己負之責任就只有這兩條但是照常理來講 院長常講過立法院做什麼事情事先跟院長來做溝通那我今天是基於溝通 這個案已經在一讀了 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].start |
8457.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].end |
8479.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[236].text |
那一讀的時候如果強制的送到這裡我相信也會通過但是這是對勞工啊他一種就是放心的表現所以院長我不曉得你對於這些法定撥補的部分以及確定給付院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].start |
8480.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].end |
8509.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[237].text |
你不曉得對勞工有什麼看法好 謝謝委員也感謝委員對長期在執政過程當中不管哪一黨尤其現在我們對勞保撥補的這個作為表示肯定我認為這個是政府的責任所以這兩個條文看起來政府已經在做只是固定撥補這個固定的定義到底怎麼樣因為我們要衡量到國家的財政也要衡量到勞保基金它的多與少變化如何所以固定兩制是需要在商所的 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].start |
8510.351 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].end |
8537.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[238].text |
政府負最終責任講這個條文有講沒講效果是一樣的政府不會讓勞保倒而且會讓勞保越來越好這是我們一再自我的要求所以我們希望我們能夠做理性的討論已經在做的事情我們督促現在把它做好做的不夠多不夠好我們把它現在做好法律的條文需要在條文的時候我們需要有一些些的彈性或是一些些的斟酌 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].start |
8538.837 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].end |
8559.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[239].text |
回來 燕子啊當然因為我今天為什麼還是要再執行這個問題入華跟不入華在華麗未接是完全不一樣勞工的想法勞工的心裡面當然現在你們有在做那如果有一天你們不做該怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].start |
8561.291 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].end |
8579.601 |
| transcript.whisperx[240].text |
我們會繼續做你會繼續做這就是你的決心跟對勞工的承諾嘛那為什麼我入華那你們也會反對但是撥補是一個給執政的一個執政的是一個責任 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].start |
8580.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].end |
8604.789 |
| transcript.whisperx[241].text |
任何人執政在華的依據情況之下就是要撥補至於撥補 撥補多少那華你沒有規定啊 彥子啊你只能說明一下好嗎跟委員說明喔其實現在這個政府付勞保財務的這個最終支付責任這就是我們現在的政策這是非常非常清楚的一以貫之的 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].start |
8605.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].end |
8629.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[242].text |
的確 我們其實這幾年包括像115年明年其實在財化法修正以後其實中央政府的財政的餘裕也受到了影響可是即便是這樣我們目前在115年的公務預算的編列裡面一樣是編了1200億的撥補如果再加上這一次我們任性的特別條例裡面100億的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].start |
8630.672 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].end |
8650.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[243].text |
其實這加起來是1300億的撥補其實我們一直把這件事情是放在心裡面而且是放在是我們的責任的最中間所以我想其實這個委員應該不用擔心那當然我知道委員其實對於這個修法其實有相關的提案我想對於委員們的提案我們是持開放態度 我們予以尊重 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].start |
8651.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].end |
8677.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[244].text |
好 院長我剛才已經講過民進黨在執政連續兩年1300億的撥補所謂嬰兒勞保基金水位已經上兆這一點我們要肯定所以我不管什麼黨任何人問我說勞保會不會倒我說最起碼的話在整個兩大黨都有執政民進黨已經做到有撥補可是只是把它法治化 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].start |
8677.91 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].end |
8705.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[245].text |
所以我修這兩條是讓勞工很確定的安心說政府最終給付所以院長剛才部長也已經講了你們所做勞工都知道可是二分之一參加勞保的人他要的勞工要的不多要的是一個保障要的是一個法定的承諾所以我會修這個法所以我也希望左院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].start |
8706.756 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].end |
8736.003 |
| transcript.whisperx[246].text |
你對勞工我相信你也不會去反對這些那我也希望 院長你今年還是在撥補1300億這一點我要代表勞工啊對於整個勞保基金的這些需要的當中你們做到所以我希望我們在修法的過程當中我事先跟院長讓院長了解做這些只有一個什麼 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].start |
8736.343 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].end |
8762.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[247].text |
你們本來既然要做的 你怕什麼立法所以這點是勞工的想法勞工很單純你只要關心他 你只要照顧他在法令上給他一個充分的保障他就非常的高興所以我在想這個部分我也要建議左院長也就是責成我們洪部長當初洪部長在當立委的時候我也很感動因為 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].start |
8764.298 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].end |
8790.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[248].text |
你發布他當勞動部長的時候是我第一個跳出來我說當然要支持他為什麼因為我們在修華有關勞工的時候他也有簽署啊所以我希望洪部長的樂觀啟程跟卓院長的用一點心在卓榮泰院長的手上這個華去實施我想勞工會感謝你所以這一點我拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].start |
8791.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].end |
8805.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[249].text |
我們卓院長也把他這個樂觀齊成照顧勞工這種德政也把他樂觀齊成這一點我要特別拜託院長謝謝 兩點答覆第一個 請委員跟廣大的勞工朋友相信政府的政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].start |
8806.511 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].end |
8835.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[250].text |
政策一定不會改變對勞工朋友的照顧這是第一個第二點未來即使進到法案文字的討論的過程我們期待這種合理的理性的討論我們找出一個最好的方向在政府財政可及的範圍之內好好的把勞工的政策做很堅固的保護這個代表一千多萬的勞工謝謝啦但是我們修這個法完全沒有給政府機關限定撥補多少的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].start |
8836.064 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].end |
8863.033 |
| transcript.whisperx[251].text |
只是讓他畫字畫這一點我請院長你放心好好的來討論 謝謝另外一個我還是要跟院長談這些因為勞工出身主要非常關心這些我接下來就要談我們關稅海嘯的衝擊之下當然不是只有台灣我想世界各國每一個被美國這種關稅搞得頭昏腦脹這個我想院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].start |
8865.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].end |
8894.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[252].text |
一樣包括我們的談判代表 政府院長我們都會體會所以我在想一個問題 國內一個問題當然你們談判整個過程我們沒有意見但是站在台灣的立場你們盡量去對台灣有利但是事實現在擺在眼前也就是無心將從七月份 八月份 九月份不斷的攀升 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].start |
8895.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].end |
8919.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[253].text |
無薪假有兩種一種就是產業不知何企何從一種就勞工不知道我什麼會失業當然現在就變成無薪假院長 我要聽聽你跟我們洪部長在這個部分未以籌謀面對這些關稅的這些海嘯 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].start |
8923.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].end |
8949.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[254].text |
對已失業 對已無薪假這個你有什麼因應之道這幾個月下來我們一直很關心勞工就業安定的問題關於這種剛剛委員所說的我們應該叫做減班休息到最新的數字來看減班休息有398家那麼有8505人但其中我們分析出來跟關稅相關的有310家有7755人我們都有經濟勞動部有很精確的數字 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].start |
8953.604 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].end |
8971.151 |
| transcript.whisperx[255].text |
這個310加7000多人到底是什麼行業我們也都有分析那勞動部也提出了關於減半休息的再充電的計畫以及強化版的安定就業的輔導計畫那相關的計畫有很多種我們都持續的在做這樣的一個監測也得協助 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].start |
8973.392 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].end |
8989.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[256].text |
這減班休息我們也有他薪資差額的補助這個就是在他的充電計畫跟最近我看到我們洪部長還有行政業也做出這些生意補助把他提高10萬這些那當然因為提高 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].start |
8990.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].end |
9014.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[257].text |
當然這個歇頭不錯但是人家本來就有生意給付那當然是補足十萬也就是不足的部分補足十萬這個政策當然是鼓勵當然是好那我在想失業率的問題以及無薪假的問題這個不得不重視所以洪部長你的看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].start |
9015.054 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].end |
9024.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[258].text |
跟文說明其實從關稅的談判以來當然國際貿易情勢的不確定讓一些產業是有一些不確定感 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].start |
9025.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].end |
9049.091 |
| transcript.whisperx[259].text |
那我們一直非常非常關注這個減班休息也是委員現在口中說無薪假可是實際上減班休息並不是真的能夠無薪法規上並不 他也要付最低工資但我要強調的事情是我們其實很希望全力的來協助這些減班休息的勞工一個很重要的部分是因為我們就是不希望他落入失業或被解雇因為這裡面有蠻多是中高齡的勞工如果他 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].start |
9050.111 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].end |
9077.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[260].text |
落入到失業或者是被解雇他要再去轉業也會相當比較辛苦這也是為什麼我們其實現在對於這些減半休息的勞工我們提出一個強化版的公安令措施也就是給他薪資差額補貼從過去的五成拉到七成過去只有三個行業現在我們把它擴大到九個行業所以我們就是希望把這個安全網讓他經濟安全的這個網子能夠築得更大然後可以更密對他有更多的協助我想這就是我們這幾個月來 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].start |
9078.821 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].end |
9107.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[261].text |
一直一直不斷強調而且不斷的來強化我們作為的地方好了 洪部長還有院長我特別提醒這個是你們知道宣導不夠所以這個部分我要建議我們卓院長啊責成我們洪部長在這個部分任何一個場所任何一個方式都要去做宣導的部分所以這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].start |
9108.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].end |
9136.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[262].text |
跟委員說明的確我們在這幾個月跟很多公會在討論的時候他們也說希望我們擴大宣傳而且用不同的工具來宣傳所以這次我們在任性條例的特別預算裡面我們也編列了相關的預算很希望委員可以來支持我們把這些重要的支持勞工的措施能夠更普及的讓更多勞工知道的這些宣導的計畫相關的預算這部分希望蔡委員支持我在想啊因為大家也知道別人執行我不曉得 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].start |
9137.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].end |
9153.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[263].text |
我本人從事勞工幾十年來我下情上達給院長是絕對正確你不要看美麗的數據那都是騙人我給你的是真實的反應所以院長你不要這樣突變 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].start |
9155.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].end |
9169.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[264].text |
要消明 我都不是在自己消明我是時下情 下情上打 讓你瞭解那這個事實 當然黃部長有很認真在辦但是我還要拜託我們黃部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].start |
9170.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].end |
9191.094 |
| transcript.whisperx[265].text |
不一定要編預算我們常 聚會場所很多你要責成所有的講師要在這個部分用五分鐘讓他明瞭這是有幫助的所以有些要花錢 有些不要花錢不是不要編 而是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].start |
9192.94 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].end |
9217.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[266].text |
確實要有用的會議都可以因為勞工運動講快一點不畸形式隨時可以宣導這點我要建議部長只要有勞工朋友或工會來邀請我們去宣講去讓他知道這些相關的資訊我們一定都到甚至我能夠自己到的我也會自己到好 那洪部長請回那現在請內政部長跟經濟部長請兩位部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].start |
9222.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].end |
9246.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[267].text |
廢政部 經濟部劉部長快點啦 你不要占用我的時間 慢慢來走好不好好 院長 我要跟你談的就是救災SOP的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].start |
9248.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].end |
9273.562 |
| transcript.whisperx[268].text |
我剛剛看得很難過 一個半小時你跟副委員一直在指責責任的問題我坦白講 我當過里長 我也救過災水災的問題 當然中央要負八成責任兩成責任是地方政府一樣 所以我是覺得這樣我們不要吵 不要鬧 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].start |
9275.77 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].end |
9291.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[269].text |
為以籌謀 說實在 極端氣候的情況之下不是這次炒完 不是台南水災完了以後就沒有還是要面對這些極端氣候的救災SOP 驗查 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].start |
9292.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].end |
9321.688 |
| transcript.whisperx[270].text |
你要把經濟部要把內政部甚至有關單位國防部等等這些水災如何處理地震如何處理這些東西我給院長又是良心的建議我記得賴總統台南市長的時候我們維康大樓地震的時候行政院長他是沒有什麼話好了N次 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].start |
9322.779 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].end |
9330.994 |
| transcript.whisperx[271].text |
第一個去救人第一第二個知言厚言這才是行政院要做的那我建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].start |
9333.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].end |
9360.792 |
| transcript.whisperx[272].text |
有爭議的政治議題都不談救人第一 救災第二本來就是要這樣啊沒有講你們錯沒有講誰對誰錯的問題執政不是在講風調已順嗎那搞了風調不順郭泰民安 郭泰不安那還要救什麼災所以院長我真的良心建議 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].start |
9361.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].end |
9380.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[273].text |
我是覺得行政院長是總統委託你做全國性愛護老百姓的一個議題所以我幾點建議SOP雖然有但是不足的地方你院長要責成你的政務 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].start |
9383.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].end |
9398.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[274].text |
委員要把它協調好其實一聲令下火災如何救水災如何救地震如何救這面對這些問題極端氣候一定會產生所以這些我常講過天災 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].start |
9401.297 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].end |
9429.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[275].text |
是無法抵抗人後可可以防範但是救災過程只要有步驟有方法我認為就不會一團亂所以救災沒有在分什麼中央地方啦要合作所以我認為合作是最必要因為老百姓生命是不刻不容緩的救災所以我要建議啦我要建議燕子 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].start |
9430.296 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].end |
9442.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[276].text |
SOP要把它建立起來以重心長覺得你們認為覺得這個不重要你只要把所有救災的急迫性放在第一就沒有政治啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].start |
9444.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].end |
9463.295 |
| transcript.whisperx[277].text |
跟委員報告 上禮拜的院會我提過七個順序第一 搶救生命第二 恢復家園第三 去化垃圾跟淤泥第四 恢復環境跟交通第五 農損 污損 公共設施的損失我們把它賠償 補助第七個 全面的復原 重建第八個 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].start |
9464.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].end |
9480.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[278].text |
第七個才是最後一個才是追究責任我把追究責任放在最後面這個很好但是要實踐要實踐我們從來沒有在推卸責任要實踐真的 院長我以重心長我可不可以補充一下經濟部 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].start |
9481.896 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].end |
9508.845 |
| transcript.whisperx[279].text |
沒有啦 你經濟部 我要建議你們啦你們不要解釋啦 我沒有在跟你們吵架水災救災的問題 我都不會跟你們吵架而是我建議你們要SOP 舉例現在我不聽這個 你不要再用我的時間好 來 花蓮巷 晏塞湖這個問題其實 我們可以利用水之眼的東西耶 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].start |
9509.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].end |
9517.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[280].text |
所以業長現在不是責任歸屬的問題而是要廢物利用也就是珍惜水之源 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].start |
9519.483 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].end |
9545.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[281].text |
這個有沒有思考邏輯怎麼樣去做另外一個我要跟院長也就是立能現在變成環保的殺手等等這些行政院我認為都處理不當這是我的感覺啦或許你們認為你們處理的很得當但是我認為都處理的不得當那個那個 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].start |
9547.353 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].end |
9575.162 |
| transcript.whisperx[282].text |
這個部長 我沒有找你啦 我沒有找你來 你回去 你回去還有一點 高雄的倒採殺死的問題這個都可以緩緩的啊院長 我跟你講 這如果你下令來這種東西該是地方政府要去執行就要執行該是中央政府督促的就要督促這種東西非常嚴重 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].start |
9576.642 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].end |
9594.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[283].text |
破壞環境這些非常重要所以院長SOP很重要我也要建議你因為你是最高行政首長如何執政好與壞卓院長要負很大責任所以我要拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].start |
9595.504 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].end |
9621.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[284].text |
破壞環保水資源好好珍惜以及稻採砂石破壞環境等等這些非常重要所以你SOP出來的時候劉部長內政部本來救災的部分經濟可以去配合的國防可以連線起來我跟你講就會很迅速因為台南救災第二天我就進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].start |
9622.711 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].end |
9643.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[285].text |
可是不管是地方政府 中央政府我看到那老百姓 我都看得快掉眼淚黑漆漆一片 要水沒水 要電沒電根本就是一個荒島所以我是這樣建議這個院長 我希望我的建議你能夠聽得進去 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].start |
9644.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].end |
9671.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[286].text |
報告委員 你講的那個高雄的部分我們正在處理 檢調在處理但是請不要汙名化因為那個不叫邁銀大峽谷不要汙名化高雄市長跟立委好啊 你們又在政治現在人家這樣我講這樣有什麼錯不知道媒體都這樣寫我有什麼錯 你告訴我你告訴我 我有什麼錯我跟委員講說請不要汙名化因為那邊的地理位置不叫這個名字 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].start |
9674.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].end |
9700.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[287].text |
現在就是電視也這樣報你叫我不能用這個還要你來糾正我尊重委員最後一個 院長我們觀光新南向政策已經實施好幾年可是現在我們的詐騙車手非法打工性教育非常嚴重所以劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].start |
9702.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].end |
9724.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[288].text |
你要講話 你要有作為 就在這裡有作為我跟你講 一定這幾項新南向政策當然跟外交 拓展觀光客有關係但是它進來的成長五萬多但是有四千七百人涉入刑案 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].start |
9725.131 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].end |
9742.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[289].text |
所以成長比例75%一定因為時間這麼久 我給你一分鐘這個部分你要不要重視這個你要叫他們盤點為什麼陷入觀光客陷入這些詐騙 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].start |
9744.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].end |
9755.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[290].text |
車手 以及飛華打工 性交易 破後的會這麼多是他們來影響來 陳貴文堅 你有什麼看法 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].start |
9757.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].end |
9782.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[291].text |
謝謝委員 詐騙當然是全世界的一個重大的一課題那我們在強力的取締之後 現在稍緩但是剛剛委員說的問題現象是存在的不僅他進來的多 我們也有一些國人是被誘騙到當地去的所以我們在做雙方的司法付諸或是共同打擊犯罪的過程當中我們還要加強 這個部分警政署 調查局都有在做這樣的工作最近我們有很多的工作是在 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].start |
9783.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].end |
9810.346 |
| transcript.whisperx[292].text |
表揚謝謝他們在工作的這個合作跟國外的單位那這個我們會持續來加強這個凸顯一個問題啦當然他們過來我們沒有意見可是能夠緩緩他們涉入刑案因為為什麼因為他沒有簽證他進來以後幾天他就出境所以這個要破案的機會是沒有但是現在已經成長這是一個治安的問題拜託劉部長拜託院長要 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].start |
9816.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].end |
9842.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[293].text |
好 謝謝 謝謝林委員 謝謝卓院長下一位我們請陳培宇委員質詢好 謝謝主席 那有請卓院長 謝謝請卓院長備詢還有內政部部長內政部長請備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].start |
9849.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].end |
9868.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[294].text |
陳委員好好 院長好我們就先放一個影片可是我怕部長看不到這個影片是這幾天有非常多的新聞媒體而且是不分顏色的新聞媒體他們進到災區的第一線訪問災民到底在撤離這件事情上發生了什麼樣的困境我們來看一下這個影片 來 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].start |
9869.96 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].end |
9890.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[295].text |
信訊者 家人 都沒有完全沒有收到撤離通知所以促進的這些力量車 他們的標準剛剛在這邊也都說沒有沒有通知啊 只有看到電視說沒有 我有看到電視說橋斷了沒有 頭水來了才說趕快轉沒有 都沒有 是我們在講的 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].start |
9892.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].end |
9919.754 |
| transcript.whisperx[296].text |
就停在這邊沒有收到撤離通知其實在第一時間我們辦公室就研究了災防法在災防法的不同章節當中不管是災害防救計畫災害預防災害應變措施災害復原重建甚至是有相關的法則其實都有把中央政府跟地方政府的分工說得非常清楚所以我想請問部長在關於撤離的通知發送還有廣播 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].start |
9920.774 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].end |
9939.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[297].text |
還有落實這件事情我們中央跟地方的分工狀況應該是什麼樣態跟委員報告中央大概就是擔任一個輔導然後協助的角色上面所以我們在提到要擴大有1837戶的時候已經用NCDR把相關的戶政資料請花蓮縣政府勾結 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].start |
9940.625 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].end |
9957.328 |
| transcript.whisperx[298].text |
我們在撤離的期間也包括動員了包括國防部甚至議政司到光復相公所去待命所以其實花蓮縣政府跟光復相公所他們也有PO出來說在艷澀湖要溢流跟潰壩之前已經有完成包括依清 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].start |
9957.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].end |
9982.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[299].text |
收容還有垂直避難的總人數那高達8000多人那我相信在第一時間內我們會覺得說花蓮縣政府在配合的狀況之下應該是大家都可以合作的無間好 部長你剛剛講到你們有收到花蓮縣政府的回報就是如同我手上這張簡報這個是花蓮的地方媒體但是它是網路新聞媒體它叫做花蓮最速報 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].start |
9983.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].end |
10003.808 |
| transcript.whisperx[300].text |
花蓮最速報的這位記者叫汪志宏在政治要文版2025年9月22號他就幫花蓮縣政府張貼了這個新聞稿我不知道這新聞稿資料是誰寫的誰給的但是就如同部長您說的標題叫做馬太安溪艷澀湖保全戶撤離作業完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].start |
10004.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].end |
10024.327 |
| transcript.whisperx[301].text |
部長您當時也是收到像這樣的訊息嗎我們在工作匯報裡面因為多次跟花蓮縣政府甚至是萬榮鳳林跟光復鄉他們的工作同仁在做匯報的時候他們也提到協助這個疏散撤離本來也就是中央跟地方一起合作那他們所提報的資訊我們採取完全信任的角度 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].start |
10024.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].end |
10044.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[302].text |
好謝謝部長的回應那部長我再多追問一個問題如果我是花蓮的鄉親我看到這個花蓮最速報的新聞甚至在花蓮非常多地方的賴群組裡面呢我們也看到很多人貼出來好像是要讓大家安心那部長我請問他這個新聞貼出來時間是9月22號距離所謂的一流的時間有多久 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].start |
10045.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].end |
10064.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[303].text |
9月22號你要看什麼時間因為我們現在這邊看不出來9月22號距離潰壩的時間我相信還有超過24小時以上因為我們很少有人是晚間在發布新聞我想是這樣子的時間我們認為說不管是做垂直的避難 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].start |
10065.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].end |
10086.232 |
| transcript.whisperx[304].text |
或者是強制的疏散撤離應該都可以完成好所以假設他這個就算是9月22最晚的一個時間發布這個新聞而且縣政府自己說已經撤離完成那你們採取信任的態度到我們剛我說一流你說潰堤都好還有24小時那我們來看這24小時在網路上流傳的很紅的這一張 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].start |
10087.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].end |
10105.836 |
| transcript.whisperx[305].text |
大馬村的英雄只有他挨家挨戶勸撤離我們看到相關的新聞說這個村長呢他挨家挨戶拜託大家撤離他挨家挨戶的方法有多麼的挨家挨戶我唸給部長聽他說他在收到中央的警戒通知立刻召開部落會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].start |
10107.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].end |
10123.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[306].text |
開始執行撤離計畫他依照中央的指示把避難地點設於光復高值活動中心開始廣播廣播不夠他自己奔走提醒確保沒有村民落單剛剛我們的新聞說是22號撤離完成對不對這是縣政府說的但是這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].start |
10125.331 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].end |
10145.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[307].text |
村長他不放心他到23號的早上再度接貨相關警示他親自檢查部落狀況最後一批居民撤離之後他才跟家人到鄰村然後再用摩托車接走岳母撤離到避難所結果就是大馬村全體村民全數撤離 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].start |
10146.156 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].end |
10161.67 |
| transcript.whisperx[308].text |
所以部長我可以這麼說嗎如果我把這兩個時間點合起來其實是有足夠的撤離時間對嗎對花蓮縣政府當地的指揮單位來說他們應該要做這樣的事情報告委員其實在9月23早上4點的時候我們的消防署跟相關單位 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].start |
10162.751 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].end |
10190.768 |
| transcript.whisperx[309].text |
包括農業部的這些人已經開始陸陸續續發布這個黃色跟紅色的警報也就是說我們本來以為當天是8點到10點的時候會潰壩但是他後來一直延到下午的2點30每兩小時我們就更新一次每兩小時我們更新一次紅色的通報那這些通報一定是會到地方政府然後或是甚至到村公所的部分因為我們有拜託原住民委員會 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].start |
10191.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].end |
10216.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[310].text |
就他們的聯絡管道也趕快來聯絡那這比較遺憾的就是說好像在這當中在處理廣播的過程當中光復鄉公所曾經一度提到說他們鄉公所的廣播系統壞掉所以花蓮縣警察局跟花蓮縣在光復那邊的分住所的同仁是開著警車一個街道一個街道用廣播的方式請大家趕快撤離 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].start |
10217.671 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].end |
10237.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[311].text |
好這看起來現場確實非常的混亂接下來我想請問院長當天在召開這個中央應變中心的緊急會議的時候呢傅坤祺委員坐在您的旁邊我們當時在新聞上看到有一個說法說呢他自己親口說他說是有內政部長劉世芳有打電話給徐政衛縣長然後徐政衛仍在國外後來接到電話才第一時間趕回來 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].start |
10240.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].end |
10266.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[312].text |
這個部分我可不可以讓部長回答一下到底您電話是打給了誰說了什麼然後時間點是什麼我們來確定一下到底地方政府有沒有施責有沒有施職報告委員其實我們是在中央成立的華家沙颱風以及相關的應變中心會議的時候我們那時候就有意識到說華家沙雖然是經過南台灣但是因為山上的降雨量可能會達到豪大雨 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].start |
10266.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].end |
10278.863 |
| transcript.whisperx[313].text |
所以我在成立的第一時間也就是9月20的晚上9點以後9點左右的時間透過我們的隨戶跟徐振蔚委員的徐振蔚縣長的隨戶來聯繫但是您的隨戶跟他的隨戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].start |
10283.026 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].end |
10307.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[314].text |
對對對對那聯繫雖然有隨乎有聯繫上但是我自己本人沒有收到徐縣長他的回應直到第二天或是第二天的比較早上這個工作會議的時候呢是他說他會請他們的副縣長跟我聯繫那這當中的我通知了包括徐政衛縣長的隨乎還有跟這個聯繫的單位的還有包括副縣長還有秘書長總共有四次以上好 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].start |
10308.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].end |
10331.402 |
| transcript.whisperx[315].text |
那我澄清我確定一下時間點9月20的晚上9點鐘您的隨戶9月20左右9點鐘左右您的隨戶還有徐縣長的隨戶通了電話然後你們有通知他建議他們立刻要回來對嗎到了9月21號的工作會議依然是有副縣長出席相關的工作會議都是如此所以我們現在到底知不知道徐縣長是什麼時候回到台灣開始投入救災指揮 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].start |
10332.462 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].end |
10352.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[316].text |
報告委員我們並不清楚部分只知道說在9月21號下午3點也就是我們請包括李洪源這些台大團隊在開會的時候他們當場參加的是花蓮縣的秘書長他有與會同時我在晚上差不多6點左右也跟嚴新章副縣長通話 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].start |
10353.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].end |
10369.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[317].text |
還有晚上六點的時候又再跟花蓮縣的遼中秘書長視訊所以這段期間裡面其實我們一直有通知花蓮縣政府的相關同仁這個資料可不可以質詢過後請部長辦公室提供給我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].start |
10369.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].end |
10389.718 |
| transcript.whisperx[318].text |
我們必須要知道身為地方首長他如果沒有在第一時間投入救災我認為相關撤離就會出現問題也謝謝部長您剛提到李洪源我想請部長先看一下這幾張照片這幾天我們看到由農業部林保署花蓮分署組了一個九人小隊他們徒步上山到煙色湖去勘測現場的狀況 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].start |
10392.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].end |
10409.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[319].text |
現場的狀況其實非常非常的辛苦如同院長您剛剛說的它已經變一個比較小的蓄水壺但是還是有相關風險所以目前在第一線我們依然說它是紅色警戒可是在這之前當大家不知道顏色壺的狀況的時候呢第一時間卻有在野黨的委員認為 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].start |
10411.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].end |
10435.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[320].text |
早就跟你們農業部說爆破就解決了爆破就解決這是他的說法但是我非常感謝當時有李洪源前內政部長他就說馬太安顏色湖不能漲我想問一下後續會不會像這樣的言論又出來導致於很多的鄉親可能會誤會是不是我們中央沒有作為導致於人民還要承受顏色湖的風險這部分我是不是可以請農業部回答謝謝那也剛剛謝謝內政部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].start |
10437.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].end |
10456.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[321].text |
委員會報告一下這個馬太安溪上游下游農業部經濟部來管理這個都沒有問題但撤離的工作撤離的工作確實需要地方政府來執行我們在驗證撤離計畫的相關的這個辦法裡面就提到地方政府應就影響範圍內受影響的保全戶 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].start |
10457.19 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].end |
10469.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[322].text |
擬定疏散計畫建立聯繫方式集合方式集中地點疏散工具並且依照監測工作通報有危險之餘的時候隨時進行撤離避難 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].start |
10470.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].end |
10479.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[323].text |
那我們在9月21號的傍晚就已經更新說有1800戶包括保全戶要在這三個箱裡面來進行撤離這是9月21號那麼在9月21號的晚上我們再次確認1800戶請地方要擬定這個相關的撤離的人數要確認 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].start |
10492.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].end |
10521.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[324].text |
花蓮縣政府三個鄉也分別在9月22號隔天的早上8點包括光復鄉他說人數較多入夜才能完成萬榮鄉他說中午前就可以完成設立鳳林鄉也說中午前就可以完成設立表示我們是提前的希望他們預防性的設立他們也說在9月22號的中午如果是光復鄉也是說入夜就可以完成隔天發生的這個事情我們當然要了解當中出了什麼問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].start |
10521.84 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].end |
10547.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[325].text |
回應剛剛院長說就是我手上這個新聞截圖我要再次強調這是非常local的花蓮網路媒體甚至它背後的金主是誰其實大家都搞不清楚但是確實常常出現有利於當地執政縣政府的新聞所以如果剛剛院長所說的到9月22號中午明明都已經接到縣政府的回應是這樣為什麼還出現後續的問題我想相關您剛剛說最後一個才是救責我們先把眼前事情做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].start |
10548.098 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].end |
10568.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[326].text |
顏色壺的部分可不可以請部長簡單回應一下我們後續如何讓災民放心謝謝委員我想先說明一下這個顏色壺應該是台灣最大的顏色壺在成立的當下7月26號我們就成立應變小組那您剛才說的就是說有沒有可能把這個顏色壺做其他的方式讓它不要有這個壺面 霸體存在 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].start |
10569.228 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].end |
10591.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[327].text |
事實上在專家會議裡面也考慮到了是不是用爆破的方式或者是用虹吸的方式或者是霸頂降蛙的方式但是因為當時的地質都不是那麼穩定特別是馬太安峽谷是一個V字形的峽谷很容易爆破造成更多的土質崩塌所以專家一致認為是不可行的 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].start |
10591.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].end |
10616.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[328].text |
不可行的前提之下我們要讓中下游保全的居民有安全的方式就會著重在下游的這些堤防的加固跟清淤的部分同時我們就監測的部分也分幾個面向第一個面向就是隨時監控水位如果說它是一個沒有下雨的情況晴天溢流的情況的風險 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].start |
10617.669 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].end |
10645.871 |
| transcript.whisperx[329].text |
還有一個就是颱風 豪雨來的時候的一個風險第三個就是地震的風險另外還有一個是管流的風險這四種風險所影響的中下游可能就有不同的疏散的就是影響的潛勢區所以我們歷次的通報裡面所有的這些疏散區域包括這些保全戶的這些戶數會有動態的一個調整最重要的是在21號中央應變中心成立以後我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].start |
10647.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].end |
10671.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[330].text |
當天下午開了專案會議以後6點的時候就已經確定了最後的疏散人數那個時候其實已經有把公文提交給縣政府然後第二天也開始啟動了疏散那特別是我們的所有的通報包括23號那天從0點、4點、9點、10點、11點、12點連續的一直做警戒的通報讓中下游的居民能夠盡快的去做一個疏散 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].start |
10671.852 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].end |
10696.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[331].text |
好 這個非常清楚我想時間點只要我們一般人願意釐清從21號 22號到23號凌晨開始相關的會議相關通報照理說縣政府而且我要再次強調我也要拜託行政院要幫忙一起釐清在花蓮縣政府自己都已經在花蓮的地方報紙說已經完全撤離所以我們真的覺得非常的遺憾我們來看一下但是非常感謝行政院在第一時間 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].start |
10697.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].end |
10725.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[332].text |
兩位部長請回 謝謝第一時間成立了前進協調所協助花蓮地方救災那可是當然救災的現場千頭萬緒後來呢 縣政府甚至自己召開了一個說明會想要直接向鄉親說明我們來看一下說明會到底說了什麼有聲音 不要裝死沒有門窗要這些家居幹嘛院長看清楚嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].start |
10726.482 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].end |
10754.571 |
| transcript.whisperx[333].text |
不用再看一次好看得很清楚我自己其實在非常多花蓮的地方群組裡面都看到非常多災民的抱怨這個抱怨有很大一部分是來自於大家對於災防法的認識認為來院長我想念給你聽不管是交通的指揮應變措施受災災民的臨時收容兒童及少年學生應變照顧危險物品設施設備的應變處理傳染病防治搜救緊急醫療救護護送這麼多我不要再念了這些 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].start |
10755.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].end |
10782.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[334].text |
都是各級政府也就是花蓮縣政府必須要在災難的第一現場做出一個總指揮中心的樣態然後尋求中央的協助但花蓮縣政府必須是這個主責單位但很可惜我們現在看到現場的困境不管是剛剛在野黨的委員自己說的便當之亂也好甚至我當天還幫忙處理了救護車當時花蓮縣政府一聲令下要相關的通行證才讓醫院的車子進出 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].start |
10784.271 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].end |
10804.673 |
| transcript.whisperx[335].text |
結果他們並沒有第一時間發出通行證導致於我們認識的幾個醫院他們必須要進到現場要繞路多了一個多小時這個花蓮縣現場的混亂在後續我不知道我們要怎麼樣讓協調前進所可以繼續支持花蓮的鄉親這邊可不可以請院長說明一下花蓮的前進協調所 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].start |
10806.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].end |
10830.155 |
| transcript.whisperx[336].text |
一開始由賴建信經濟部次長來擔任他主要是要處理那些已經發生水患跟土石流的地方那隨後一個禮拜之後我們請紀念人政委去接手就是希望能夠趕快進入到更有效率的這些防救災的工作甚至地方復原的工作那同時這一個禮拜當中持續國軍不斷的進入那還有大量的志工朋友們不斷的進入 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].start |
10830.675 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].end |
10851.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[337].text |
那到了最後這個禮拜紀念城政委去的時候他已經要求能夠把花蓮縣政府的前進指揮所跟我們的前進協調所合併為一起開記者會連這麼簡單的工作一開始都沒有辦法做到我覺得這個是相當令我覺得不可思議的當然我也相信中央到地方大家都想把救災的工作做好 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].start |
10851.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].end |
10880.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[338].text |
那有些做不好的我們來檢討的就是這些而不是做不好就把責任往別人身上推往中央身上推往其他的身上推推給各種各種的理由這個完全不能對未來我們的救災工作起任何好的作用所以我還是認為救災工作擺在最後我們先把前面六項給它完成那前面四項大概我們進行到一定的程度了現在我們全面做這個災損的賠償以及復原的工作這兩項是目前最重要的工作也是前進協調所現在最重要的工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].start |
10880.728 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].end |
10900.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[339].text |
好 確實是這樣連我們在花蓮的議員地方的議員都沒有辦法找到縣政府完成他們必須要幫忙的協調不管是醫療 不管是民生不管是學校的上課問題很多議員都必須要直接打給民進黨這幾個立法委員不管是范委員 申委員還有陳寅委員 吳立華委員包含我也是甚至有蘇喬會員 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].start |
10901.451 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].end |
10930.326 |
| transcript.whisperx[340].text |
非常多委員都一起投入花蓮的救災我花蓮的好朋友告訴我說他們覺得花蓮是一個第二天的地方有這麼多的立法委員在直接跟中央反映協助花蓮救災我要再次強調是這些立法委員直接拜託中央協助花蓮救災我真的不知道花蓮縣政府怎麼了當然救責是後續但我認為這件事情我們真的必須要嚴肅的考慮這件事情因為有人把救災當成擺拍有人把救災當成在救之 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].start |
10930.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].end |
10953.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[341].text |
點播率有人把救災當成在挽救自己的政治生命我真的覺得非常的不齒跟非常的遺憾再來我想要跟院長討論另外一個問題因為剛剛也有委員談到重建確實現在當場當地的三明爺已經開始談到重建更何況裡面可能還會牽涉到千村還有剛剛也有委員問到有沒有重建委員會的成立 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].start |
10954.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].end |
10975.057 |
| transcript.whisperx[342].text |
這個部分我想先問一下遷村因為已經有在野黨委員喊出來可是我們目前所收集到在地的聲音其實並還沒有一致聲音還沒有一致有人認為要遷村有人認為不要遷村這個聲音我想院長您都知道關於遷村的部分我想園民會後續應該會有一些動作跟聲音的收集對嗎不要粗暴的讓縣政府就決定要不要遷村 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].start |
10975.851 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].end |
11002.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[343].text |
我們希望能夠跟至少89戶希望他們知道繼續在原來地方的危險性但是要經過溝通但我認為我們要強力的溝通如果真的有危險性我們當然不建議繼續留在原來地方但是顧慮到他們離災不離村的這樣的心願我們要不要找一個適當的他們也願意搬過去的地方做一個遷村的工作那這個要原民會跟所有的部會做很多現在開始要進行的溝通工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].start |
11003.237 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].end |
11023.892 |
| transcript.whisperx[344].text |
但是院長我要再次提醒您相關的災防法裡面寫到重建裡面縣政府一樣要有角色一樣要有責任必須要有工作必須要擔負所以我相信之後所有重建當然中央有責任有角色有資源但是地方政府的角色也不要忘記要拜託所有中央各個部會到花蓮去幫忙的時候不要忘了縣政府有相關角色 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].start |
11024.292 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].end |
11049.53 |
| transcript.whisperx[345].text |
除了我剛說的千春之外另外一個其實第一時間就有非常多文史專家提出來光復鄉他是非常多棒球好手的家鄉包含棒球的陳奕信現在也是園民會的副主委還有王光輝黃忠義到這幾年的周思齊還有女壘的楊喬娟還有女足的王香惠那已經有很多老師他們是自動自發自己當搶救文史 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].start |
11050.11 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].end |
11078.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[346].text |
資料 志工 他們不是去當產值超人他們是去當搶救文史的超人 他們已經進到現場這個部分我可不可以部長自己跑出來了我們可不可以請部長簡單回應一下您如何看待花蓮光復當地我們對運動文物 我們現在怎麼樣來搶救還有已經展開的計畫我們第一時間就有掌握然後我們有主動委託高師大然後台南大學 台藝大等等的學校去做搶救的部分那我們覺得這是一個長期而且持續努力的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].start |
11078.624 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].end |
11106.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[347].text |
好 這個部分確實沒有辦法今天就討論完我們就是把這個聲音帶回來給運動部拜託 我剛剛講了這麼多選手然後甚至開始有志工發掘某一個家戶上掛著一個什麼牆壁是誰是誰突然發現都是很厲害的運動好手這個部分要拜託運動部除了相關的文化支持之外如何累積當地的生命記憶跟故事跟文化因為光復是一個非常美麗的地方它有原民 有客家人 有漢人還有新移民 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].start |
11107.581 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].end |
11131.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[348].text |
非常非常多族群融合在一起所以要拜托运动部好吗好谢谢那接下来拜托教育部就是关于当地的儿少就学跟心理支持这边跟院长报告一个状况第一时间我们就收到在教师节廉价要结束的前一天我们就收到当地的家长跟老师跟我们澄清说县政府好像急着想要开学我就问难道他是想要创造或者是 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].start |
11132.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].end |
11157.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[349].text |
營造出一個好像當地都已經沒事所以第一時間我們就拜託教育部去跟縣政府溝通在道路都還沒有清乾淨家園都還沒有恢復學校都還亂七八糟的情況下不要急著讓孩子回去上課爸媽也擔心到了這個連假後我們現在看到後續有學校開始復原了但是我認為學校的復原或者是孩子們的心理支持或者是衛福部之後會導入的社工系統的支持醫療系統的支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].start |
11158.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].end |
11180.173 |
| transcript.whisperx[350].text |
是不是可以請部長簡單說一下我們當然希望能夠儘快的恢復上課但是一定要在師生安全的條件下而且預先要做的除了課本之外心理的資質才重要的我們請部長說明謝謝委員關心確實院長也特別有指示在學生的這一個我在跟院長報告的時候院長第一個就提醒我說這一個全校的 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].start |
11181.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].end |
11209.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[351].text |
這個災區的私生的一個心理的一個重建所以我們今天開始花蓮光復有一些中小學開始這個復課的時候那麼第一天從國教署裡面安排就所有的這個專業的心理輔導老師逐校 全校的先做安心減壓的這個工作那也針對這個老師跟學生的個別需求開設團體輔導跟個別諮商 個別輔導我想在這個心理上的一些支持 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].start |
11210.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].end |
11238.699 |
| transcript.whisperx[352].text |
這是我們在復課以後第一個優先在做的一件事情謝謝委員關心好 謝謝部長因為其實大部分的縣級學校是縣政府教育局必須要有所承擔的我們今天早上看到很多新聞的訪問校長也都是說如果學生有三級輔導的需求他們也會提報到地方的學輔資中心但我想國教署有些支持也還是很重要後續要拜託部長持續關心我到現場的時候就也跟翁處長也特別提醒 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].start |
11239.239 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].end |
11265.339 |
| transcript.whisperx[353].text |
還有關乎商工的校長跟關乎國中的校長我也特別提醒說包含慈濟大學因為慈濟有一個非常強的宗教的志工團體有一些人可能需要有一些宗教的心理上的支持我們也都全面的請校長跟處長前面來提供學校的一些協助也跟慈濟大學都有做了聯繫 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].start |
11266.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].end |
11290.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[354].text |
謝謝部長 我時間有限我本來其實還要提醒很多事情我想我就簡單說部長請回 謝謝就不勞煩各位部長起立了就是關於青年就業跟在地產業後續勞動部或者是經濟部要拜託持續幫忙還有農田復耕有大部分有800多公頃的農田被相關的泥巴淹沒這個部分要請農業部幫忙家戶重建 水電健檢 醫療支持我知道其實各個部會都有在幫忙但是拜託 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].start |
11290.686 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].end |
11310.179 |
| transcript.whisperx[355].text |
我要再次提醒進到災區第一時間還是要跟縣政府對接縣政府必須要扛起相關的責任這是他們很重要縣民對他們的請託就像縣民第一時間交的陳情書其實是給縣長的但縣長不知為何第一時間還把這個災民的陳情書就是那個拖鞋阿伯的陳情書又再丟給賴總統 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].start |
11311.4 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].end |
11328.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[356].text |
我在新聞上看的時候真的是搞不清楚狀況不知道為什麼縣政府會做出這樣的事情最後我們剛剛看到今天早上的新聞是不是可以請院長說明一下我們成立了一站式服務平台然後我剛剛快速看了一下早上的新聞看起來現場的狀況非常的順暢然後我看到這個說明我非常的驚訝我跟院長確認一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].start |
11334.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].end |
11358.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[357].text |
陳金德政委說各個部會每一天合計會派20個人到30個人進行逐戶協助確認受災事實跟金融帳號資料核對後由衛福部統一辦理撥款直接匯入災民的帳戶是嗎我們各個部會要花這麼多力氣協助花蓮縣政府如果證件有遺失我們也現場可以幫他補辦證件讓他能夠用這個新的證件來做一些這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].start |
11360.951 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].end |
11371.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[358].text |
匯出進去的一個銀行郵局或者農會的一個相關的一個作為那院長請問一下這個經費來源是來自於震災基金嗎其中有一部分是來自震災基金 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].start |
11372.119 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].end |
11397.634 |
| transcript.whisperx[359].text |
有一部分是來自關於這個包括總統宣布的後來20萬的重建包括還有10萬的這個復原未住金這個都來自於這個捐款的部分那其他有一些我們會用公務預算用特別預算原來是公務預算跟震災基金為什麼要問震災基金剩下4分鐘我要再講另外一個在地方上散布非常廣闊的謠言 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].start |
11399.835 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].end |
11428.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[360].text |
就是我們正在基金會的網站上可以去查相關基金會的董事長是陳時中政委那就有鄉親造謠說哇 那我們捐了這好幾億通通會進入陳時中政委的口袋瞬間陳政委就成了大富翁這樣這是誤會他是正在基金會的董事長是陳時中政委對 於是我在所有的地方群組只要看到這個謠言我都第一時間講清楚這個是什麼樣的回事然後該是怎麼樣怎麼樣這樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].start |
11429.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].end |
11448.116 |
| transcript.whisperx[361].text |
那當然我們有努力去闢謠就可以洗清地方的謠言但是回到災防法的法則裡面提到關於不斷的造謠甚至抹黑所有在第一線努力的中央各個部會這件事情我要拜託行政院這邊的態度要更加的堅定損及各個部會就像您剛剛說直接污名 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].start |
11448.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].end |
11472.731 |
| transcript.whisperx[362].text |
污蔑各個部會然後直接造謠甚至陳政委瞬間變大富翁這個事情我也覺得不可思議這邊要拜託行政院要更積極的態度來協助地方的闢謠因為重建之路非常漫長我們如何完成或者是努力的闢謠然後讓地方上看見所有中央部會在地方的努力如何積極的協助一個無能沒有效率的花蓮縣政府上的努力可不可以請你們簡單回應一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].start |
11473.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].end |
11478.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[363].text |
造謠不僅可以傷害到任何一個人最嚴重的是傷害到整個救災工作 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].start |
11480.097 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].end |
11505.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[364].text |
造謠會傷害到整個救災工作所以我也請所有的國人在看到任何訊息的時候要事先查證東西也不要做不正常的一個傳播那如果說在救災當機之下還是用這種造謠的方式來滿足個人的政治傾向或是對哪一個個人的偏好我覺得我們的司法單位應該要全面主動的偵辦這個是維護工作人員的尊嚴重要的是維護整個救災工作的順利進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].start |
11506.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].end |
11522.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[365].text |
謝謝院長你剛說的非常清楚要主動的偵辦來這邊請跟委員報告一下目前我們正在第一線由我們行政院的團隊直接照冊照完冊之後我們這個禮拜就會直接由政災基金會來我們透過這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].start |
11524.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].end |
11539.261 |
| transcript.whisperx[366].text |
戶頭直接就入帳所以不會經過縣政府我們直接匯到我們的受災戶的我想這個是災民會最有感最後剩下兩分鐘的時間我跟院長分享一下花蓮這一次受災最嚴重叫光復鄉 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].start |
11540.661 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].end |
11567.543 |
| transcript.whisperx[367].text |
當地的災民好朋友告訴我還有教會團體告訴我他們希望花蓮的光復可以趕快真正的復光恢復它原有的光景恢復它原有的榮耀他們希望他們原本生活的光可以趕快被看見所以我要再一次謝謝所有第一時間進入現場的志工團體宗教團體民間團體還有志工還有國軍所有大家不分前後 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].start |
11568.359 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].end |
11584.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[368].text |
努力投入救災這件事情真的非常非常感謝大家今天早上甚至有看到一個獨家新聞是一個救災的志工因為感染而過世我們也感到非常的遺憾那我想後續在現場在志工的調度也好或者是跟縣政府的合作我要拜託院長積極的 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].start |
11585.694 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].end |
11610.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[369].text |
用保護這個字有點怪他們都是大人不需要被保護但是我必須要說在現場工作的困境其實我也有去到現場第一時間去到現場其實真的非常非常的辛苦所以要再次謝謝各個部會也謝謝所有投入的志工後續重建之路我們希望不要有政治口水我們希望所有的部會協助縣府一起努力讓花蓮的光復可以真正的復光好嗎 謝謝院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].start |
11611.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].end |
11635.266 |
| transcript.whisperx[370].text |
我們非常遺憾志工的不幸事件我們要求衛福部要強化我們的醫療服務站同時也要跟地方的所有的醫療單位做好對志工朋友的保障的工作我也期待 要求 拜託志工朋友去到花蓮先做好自身的保障工作的時候特別注意到安全那麼我們所有的聯繫以及他的照顧以及他的如果有交通 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].start |
11636.007 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].end |
11659.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[371].text |
住宿的媒合我們一併都會做到那我也很感謝曾經的政委今天把一站式的這個服務平台開通這個上禮拜四我們就開始籌備了我們希望能夠一對一的競速的七個村能夠依照順序盡快的完成這樣讓災民能夠得到最起碼的最先快的一些照顧我們也會努力把好 謝謝陳委員 謝謝左院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].start |
11663.376 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].end |
11668.225 |
| transcript.whisperx[372].text |
包園會上午質詢到此為止下午2點15分處理臨時提案下午2點30分繼續進行質詢現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].start |
20619.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].end |
20626.649 |
| transcript.whisperx[373].text |
抱怨会我们继续开会处理临时提案每位委员发言时间一分钟首先请庄瑞雄委员请发言喂 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].start |
20639.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].end |
20657.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[374].text |
謝謝主席還有我們各位同仁本席跟陳勇委員等今天提出這項臨時提案是為了那些長期在公有土地上默默耕作幾十年的農民尤其是我們台東這些人世代跟土地為伍 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].start |
20658.169 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].end |
20676.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[375].text |
日出而作 日落而息风灾跟旱灾都不曾离开过这个土地因为政府停止工地放领导致他们耕作了一辈子仍然没有办法取得土地的所有权这个是制度上造成的遗憾也是国家长期忽视正义的一个缺口 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].start |
20677.199 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].end |
20702.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[376].text |
那民以食為天啊糧食安全是國土安全的一個根基啊農民權益的安定是社會韌性的一個底座台灣的經濟奇蹟正是從一代代農民用鋤頭在土地上翻出第一母開始這些人是養活國家的脊樑卻常常被政策給遺忘啊因此本席提案建請啊行政院盡速研議並啟動第四階段工地放領將台東納入優先 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].start |
20709.641 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].end |
20714.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[377].text |
真正的為天君並建立完善的廠客配套機制並將屏幕推翻推展到全國公民的一個範圍真正落實 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].start |
20726.106 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].end |
20744.6 |
| transcript.whisperx[378].text |
謝謝莊瑞雄委員的發言本院委員莊瑞雄等28位委員提案我們現在作以下決議函請行政院嚴處請問願會有無異議沒有異議我們就通過接下來第二案我們請陳寅委員請發言陳寅委員請發言 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].start |
20752.277 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].end |
20767.145 |
| transcript.whisperx[379].text |
陳穎委員請發言三次唱名不在場我們本案暫不交付處理我們就暫時不予處理抱怨會我們臨時提案已經處理完畢下午兩點三十分繼續開會進行諮詢現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].start |
21518.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].end |
21529.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[380].text |
主委院長各位閣議員午安保安委員會我們繼續開會進行施政報告質詢首先我們請劉淑斌委員質詢王逸川委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].start |
21547.335 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].end |
21551.139 |
| transcript.whisperx[381].text |
有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢劉元豪 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].start |
21567.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].end |
21585.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[382].text |
今天來跟您討論一下台電的資訊用電的資訊我們看到的是在您看過 院長想請問一下您看過在台電的官網的用電資訊嗎我幾乎天天都會看今天的備轉容量率多少 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].start |
21586.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].end |
21603.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[383].text |
非常好我們現在來看一下第一個看到這個是一天的用電資訊只有兩天內的曲線第二我們來看一下全天的各能源的用電的曲線只有當天有這個圖表這部分包括的是台電他最近台電他最不敢 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].start |
21605.005 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].end |
21633.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[384].text |
貼的24小時的這個用電的曲線圖因為再生能源呢在只有24小時的這個量大概就只有10%而已那我們再繼續往下看呢包括的是備轉的容量率這部分呢它時間比較多了有112到113年的3年這個曲線但是呢瞬間的部分呢也只能查到1.5個月前的這個部分的這個數據卻沒有每天的使用的高峰跟備轉容量率每天的這個低峰的這樣數據 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].start |
21635.258 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].end |
21658.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[385].text |
部分我們看到這裡第四項我們看到是各機組當中的影響倍轉容量率的部分他只有每天的每小時的瞬間這部分經濟部或者是台電他最喜歡是在中午的時候把資料PO出來因為那時候可以看到再生能源非常多的發電量是太陽能源這邊我們再繼續往下看的時候我剛才 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].start |
21659.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].end |
21681.834 |
| transcript.whisperx[386].text |
隨時都有 像我現在手上的就是15.26今天的備轉容量率他沒有在中午才做 早上再做我現在沒有做 包括112年到114年我們現在把我剛剛講的部分這部分呈現出來沒有錯 我現在是其實我把它整理出來的那我們現在看看剛才所呈現出來的部分等一下我要讓你看到日本的情況是每次都可以查到的我現在再講講看 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].start |
21683.294 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].end |
21711.233 |
| transcript.whisperx[387].text |
在這裡我們看到是把剛才我四項的資料都把它匯整起來的時候就得到這樣的資訊就是說台電的這個電網的官網的資訊揭露他其實是並都是兩天的當日的三年內的部分是一個備轉容量率的部分像你剛才說的有到這個情況還有備轉的過去的用電資料是記錄到上個月例如說我今天用的我今天10月7號我實際上看到歷史性的記錄的完整的部分只看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].start |
21711.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].end |
21723.958 |
| transcript.whisperx[388].text |
今年的8月31號這部分就想要請問的這樣的一個台電官網資訊街道是否符合一個保障民眾基本知行權呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].start |
21725.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].end |
21749.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[389].text |
請問院長他每天都有公佈啊你每天都有公佈歷史資料我記得是日尖峰是有好 沒關係因為你現在講片段資料我剛才呈現出來是不夠完整的這邊我們繼續往下看現在我們現在講的是一個9月16號到9月17、18號連續三天的用電尖峰負載這部分你現在已經絕對查不到啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].start |
21750.208 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].end |
21763.025 |
| transcript.whisperx[390].text |
那我們看到的是在9月16、17、18三天喔這個資訊你現在絕對是查不到在官網當中絕對現在是查不到那請問一下院長你知道9月17號的夜間尖峰的備轉容量率是多少嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].start |
21764.518 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].end |
21779.585 |
| transcript.whisperx[391].text |
9月17號 你應該不知道那當然我要去查一下對 但是我現在問一下部長知道嗎東部長你知道嗎好 我現在跟你講我現在呈現出來就是三天的時候黃色是供電吃緊 綠色是充電17號是充綠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].start |
21781.805 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].end |
21796.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[392].text |
18號呢是吃緊的三天之內去有一天的話是是一個充裕的情況吼那被轉容量率那天平常都是那三天的八十八十十點六一到六點一一你可以看到這實際上面的數據是這樣子好 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].start |
21797.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].end |
21825.441 |
| transcript.whisperx[393].text |
我們繼續往下看這邊我們就想到這邊這有一個情況是因為三天的時間當中兩天是用電吃緊黃色一天是綠色是用電的一個是充裕的那我們就想問一下請問在這個情況之下你知道當天的被轉容量率在那天的用電情況是怎麼樣的嗎當天隨時隨地都有那個數據會出來你如果看手機也會顯現 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].start |
21827.165 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].end |
21844.565 |
| transcript.whisperx[394].text |
沒有那我現在因為要查資料我們要做論證需求這是一般人要了解用電的需求狀況繼續往下看這一張圖看得很清楚這一張圖裡面是9月17號緊急跟備用機組的使用狀況大家可以看到是 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].start |
21845.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].end |
21866.525 |
| transcript.whisperx[395].text |
雖然離島這話是每天一定要讓當然它因為氫油的部分它要發電沒有錯可是我看到的台中的1號到4號的氫油全開重點是河二河三的氫油機組也全開了您知道嗎我知道因為那時候的那個南部的那個興達機組出了問題對啊所以備用的機組就要啟動啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].start |
21874.259 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].end |
21894.531 |
| transcript.whisperx[396].text |
如果沒有問題都不用啟動部長你先看看喔9月9號發生新打對不對那可是9月16號的時候是吃緊的可是9月17號確實充裕的喔9月18號又是吃緊的沒錯你剛才沒說可是9月17號就特別我們才想要來看看因為那時候林口林口的機組出了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].start |
21896.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].end |
21917.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[397].text |
對沒錯 但是更重要的是林口機組出軍的問題可是核二核三廠的清流機組卻全開你知道嗎這邊全開 我現在只讓大家知道這個全開核電廠裡面的清流機組也全開了這是非常緊急需要的時候才開的因為林口電廠出了問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].start |
21919.454 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].end |
21943.085 |
| transcript.whisperx[398].text |
供電正常我們就把它提升可是為什麼9月9月開始9月16、18確實吃緊的情況9月17確實出現到一個充裕的情況這是我們繼續往下看9月9號的時候是興達出了問題中間我們有一個備用基礎是沒有問題但是現在看看興達的部分就是我現在想說的興達這邊您說的是興達他有 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].start |
21946.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].end |
21964.2 |
| transcript.whisperx[399].text |
我們再看看興達的燃煤電廠喔3號4號這個是備用機組對不對可是你看看他發電的時間什麼時候開始的臨時 凌晨就開始啦所以請問發電機組興達電廠的燃煤機組是備用機組他什麼時候才可以開啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].start |
21972.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].end |
21988.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[400].text |
備用的時候電力假如說我們要供電正常對 他都需要的是在需要在百分之八以下對不對可是你的燈是綠色的喔不要忘記喔你當天的燈是綠色的喔你的綠色你為什麼需要開呢如果是百分之八的話為什麼需要開勒 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].start |
21989.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].end |
22017.348 |
| transcript.whisperx[401].text |
這就是大問題啊我們另外看到是部長這是事實我就是要出現出來你不是講到實情我們繼續往下看燃煤機組跟天然氣有點不太一樣燃煤可能它的熱氣是比較強所以這邊是沒有錯燃煤機組就是需要燃煤機組就是需要在備轉容量率8的時候才會開嘛對不對可是你是綠燈啊10%以上為什麼要開呢這就是有問題的地方我們繼續往下看 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].start |
22018.428 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].end |
22033.418 |
| transcript.whisperx[402].text |
9月17號你剛才有說的有些其他機組這部分那我們再生能源不是很棒嗎這部分再生能源有出現狀況嗎再說一次再生能源的基礎再生能源就是如果是太陽能光電就是白天 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].start |
22035.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].end |
22060.51 |
| transcript.whisperx[403].text |
對 非常好我們繼續往下看可是整個部分就跟大家講了所有包括興達電廠的1234號緊急備用跟備用全部開了還包括的是核二廠核三廠的緊急的清油備用基礎也全部開了才得到綠色的這個結果那表示什麼就是缺電啊可是缺電你們去還是成立一個綠色的燈飾站 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].start |
22063.677 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].end |
22069.101 |
| transcript.whisperx[404].text |
領口的養護基礎跟洗腦的基礎都是故障的情況下產生的特殊狀況它是一個特殊狀況包圍紅那段時間都供電正常 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].start |
22079.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].end |
22105.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[405].text |
沒有任何缺電的問題事實上面我用資料會說話請重視你們資料所呈現的數據這部分所以9月17號備轉容量綠燈能夠撐起來的就是因為剛才說的核電廠的清油機組還包括興達電廠的燃油機組123號機備轉容量的緊急備轉的通通都開始用了才達到這個效果 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].start |
22105.988 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].end |
22134.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[406].text |
這就是實情啊所以這部分如果我們不知道這些情況的話我們根本就不知道台電在就是會出現到把該開的部分實行再告訴大家我們繼續再看到有些這重重的部分台電的最重要的任務就是要供電正常對 但是還是必須要合法的情況你們用掩蓋的數據去讓大家以為是供電正常事實上不是的你們在掩蓋缺電的成果 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].start |
22135.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].end |
22149.112 |
| transcript.whisperx[407].text |
缺電的結果我們繼續往下看在電網的部分我們看到的是現在如果要看過去的電力供需的部分的時候可以看到在目前10月7號只可以看到過去只看到 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].start |
22150.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].end |
22171.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[408].text |
8月31號最早的因為呢供應的資訊是說呢並沒有完整的平時完整資料是4月中旬才能夠更新所以我10月15號之後才能知道9月份的資料因此我剛才大家知道了9月9號興達電廠爆炸了9月17號我剛舉的例子當中在 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].start |
22173.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].end |
22201.496 |
| transcript.whisperx[409].text |
在所謂的這個容量的部分的時候你就發現到他其實是是用電應該是吃緊的但是卻呈現一個綠燈狀況這就是出現了很大的問題資訊的不透明讓我們達到了一個沒辦法真正就落實到一個真正的政策的問題我們再繼續往下看這個地方我就要用到的其他國家的日本的日本大家看一下日本東京電力公司他裡面可以看到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].start |
22202.236 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].end |
22226.323 |
| transcript.whisperx[410].text |
當然把今日的電力使用的預測率把需求的高峰跟使用率的高峰就把它呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看的時候他甚至可以馬上的可以看到在9月的時候的部分都可以呈現出來不像我剛才所說的目前我們在台電的官網當中你要查9月的資料在瞬間的或者是在容量的部分上是有問題的 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].start |
22227.563 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].end |
22249.038 |
| transcript.whisperx[411].text |
這部分我想要以他人知識來做一下我想過去的資料怎麼樣呈現我覺得我們可以來討論但是我跟委員報告就是說當初這個備轉容量率我們最主要的用意是說當天到底會不會供電正常這個是最關鍵的如果今天我們供電正常以後事實上就表示沒有問題了 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].start |
22250.712 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].end |
22270.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[412].text |
但是每一項的東西每一項的備轉都要等等你必須跟他實行如果你都這樣做的話就會發生像京達的火力發電天然氣的防電廠你們在試運轉都刺上你們就等他運到一個加快馬力所出現的一個效果就爆炸了我們看怎麼呈現我們來討論所以我還跟你講說如果 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].start |
22272.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].end |
22290.778 |
| transcript.whisperx[413].text |
這邊我很高興說部長你有呈現到說這個資料其實你們都有嗎這些部分就是公開的透明呈現就是想跟部長院長也請教的是在於說這種公開的知情權是非常重要的因為你要訂定一個良好的有效率的能源發電政策就必須要這樣子出現 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].start |
22291.987 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].end |
22313.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[414].text |
謝謝委員的用心我們整天今天各機組的發電量他都會很詳細的列在上每天都有因為我們最關心的是當下到你會不會我們要了解是今天的狀況要有供電穩定那委員希望說你查詢到過去一段時間以來過去要長期的了解讓民眾了解正確的 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].start |
22314.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].end |
22342.265 |
| transcript.whisperx[415].text |
電力政策才能夠呈現我需要的是大家說不是我當立法委員我才要去問政才知道每一個人都可以關心到我的電力包括的是如果NVIDIA輝達他要來用電包括供電的需求每年都要成長到1.8度1.8%到2%的時候那你的用電怎麼不夠難怪各界的國外的投資者都會注意到說你用電現在已經呈現到是一個國安問題啦用電的能源國安的問題是這麼呈現的就是因為這樣子而來的 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].start |
22343.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].end |
22370.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[416].text |
所以這部分的需要因為過去你們只敢備轉容量率高這個部分都是個假象這都是假象開綠燈其實是不是正確的那你知道我就繼續往下去看了好當然我剛才聽到說院長你說你會說限期改善要台電的網站公開透明就是像其他該有的都放上去是這樣可以嗎我說real time都有但是就是過去的資料怎麼呈現 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].start |
22371.964 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].end |
22383.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[417].text |
他必須是要累積的部分在呈現的日本可以 我們有離他更遠嗎我們是AI大國吧部長 院長 院長請你在這邊可以承諾嗎我們應該把這種公開透明的資訊查詢機制讓他更開 公開透明 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].start |
22386.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].end |
22407.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[418].text |
好謝謝委員關心整個能源的政策如果能夠提供更精確而且有一段時間讓大家能夠做參考來比較的話我認為這也是我們開放政府資料治理應該做的事情我請台電能夠進行研究但是我們跟日本到底不是用同一個模組同一個軟體所以不可能完全一樣用我們的方式盡量把過去的資料讓 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].start |
22407.944 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].end |
22430.537 |
| transcript.whisperx[419].text |
報告委員好 任何人可以公開來查詢什麼時候什麼時候今年年底應該可以吧其實你們資料都有只是什麼時候放上去而已對不對好 謝謝我們繼續往下看這邊我就是要詢問的是下面更重要的一個問題就是火力的主義機組轉備用戶緊急的時候請問有沒有法源有哪一個法源 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].start |
22434.589 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].end |
22454.171 |
| transcript.whisperx[420].text |
是這個嗎 環評承諾條件嗎空氣污染排放標準嗎是這些嗎空污法也有依據的沒有 那個空污法也是從環境地方空污這邊去呈現出來了沒有直接的法律的依據 沒有所以這部分您才包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].start |
22455.192 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].end |
22481.436 |
| transcript.whisperx[421].text |
剛才我們看到的核電廠的幾個清油機組也都是在用了沒有 譬如說像那個興達燃煤這個一年當中可以緊急備用多少小時 724個小時 如果我記得沒錯的話務長 請你知道這邊是依照電力設施的裡面的空氣污染排放標準是行政命令啊 不是法啊那現在我們也會遵守啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].start |
22482.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].end |
22502.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[422].text |
他不是法 他是更積極的規定而已我現在跟大家講的是尤其是這個部分的興達電廠裡面的緊急備用機組跟備用機組當中我們在台電的官網當中其實沒有真正看到資料而是在高雄市環保局專區資料裡面才有啊台電是 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].start |
22506.252 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].end |
22521.263 |
| transcript.whisperx[423].text |
台電是一個堂堂正正的國營企業為什麼是由地方政府來去決定他到底是一個是一個備用機組在什麼狀態的情況之下呢因為他們要同意我們才可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].start |
22522.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].end |
22551.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[424].text |
這個緊急備用基礎因為他要算在722小時之內所以他要累計計算是不是有超過超過的話重點是董院長您是學法律的應該知道像這邊我們都甚至跟他講一件事情當核電廠的研議他如果還要繼續發展的他都有一個核子設施反應器的管制法嘛對不對這部分都是法那如果你要你要涉及到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].start |
22552.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].end |
22561.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[425].text |
精打火力電廠的部分有關研議的部分研議的部分他轉成緊急備轉基礎對不對是不是也應該要有一個 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].start |
22563.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].end |
22588.209 |
| transcript.whisperx[426].text |
法源依據呢?是法律的依據呢?要專法來決定呢?依照剛剛部長的答覆他現在我們即使是一個命令那我們也是完全遵守這個命令的內容所以一個備用機組何時該啟動何時必須啟動一個年當中他能夠啟動多少小時這個都是明明白白規定的很實的而且他有規定就是說在空污期間是不能運轉的我們也會遵守 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].start |
22588.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].end |
22594.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[427].text |
好 這部分這就是要跟部長跟院長交換意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].start |
22595.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].end |
22621.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[428].text |
你們用的是環評的承諾條件還包括是空氣污染排放標準也許是在空氣污染法環境部長也上來了可是這麼涉及到我們的人民的健康的部分如果這個資訊沒有公開尤其沒有法律的依據甚至這個公告完全是由地方政府來決定的話經濟部長你不會是失職嗎你把這個權利讓地方政府去決定嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].start |
22621.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].end |
22649.857 |
| transcript.whisperx[429].text |
所以我剛剛回答這個委員的想法是說這是我記得啦我記得應該是好像空污法之下包委員其實兩個一個是環評他們要興建的時候要通過環評的決定那他的承諾就變成是他一定要去照這個營運來遵守那空污法是相對的他如果是緊急備用機組就720個小時是空污法裡面規定的好 但是最重要的是剛才的3號跟4號機是備用機組嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].start |
22652.629 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].end |
22670.866 |
| transcript.whisperx[430].text |
對嘛 三高四上是非常基礎那三高四上他必須到8%才用嘛 對不對8% 備轉容率在8%以下的時候才有可是剛才的 我剛才說9月17號就不是嘛還在綠燈嘛他們其實任何一個台電運轉的時候前一天就要預估今天的備轉容率多少你說的是實際上執行的多少這兩個意義是不一樣的 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].start |
22672.227 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].end |
22693.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[431].text |
對 所以我的才呈現出來我就是要凸顯的我們現在台電的官網的用電資料呢並不是完全真正的實行你又把預測的部分要放進來了這樣是不對的才想說剛才院長已經有承諾那就好了他的備轉就是希望說不要讓他降到安全數字以下所以他預估之後他認為我要提前作業這個沒有什麼不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].start |
22694.839 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].end |
22709.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[432].text |
終極目標在於穩定跟供電無虞你們這樣用預備的部分就是模糊大家的視聽的啦我跟你講這些部分我們因為部長承諾我們就必須再繼續再往下去看大家現在更重要想要就是針對的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].start |
22710.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].end |
22728.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[433].text |
院長你在做一個能源的一個行政院長嘛就在說非核家園政策我們知道看到的是有些的能源的再生能源的配比有事實上是有跳票嘛因為明年才要達到2020%對不對好那另外電力供需的部分的缺口也呈現喔包括這次的興達電廠的 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].start |
22731.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].end |
22740.099 |
| transcript.whisperx[434].text |
煤氣的部分也是就是因為他發生火災的他到明年才達到對不對但是還有供電的需求是不是也是一直到每年大概成長1.8 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].start |
22742.1 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].end |
22761.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[435].text |
以上的用電成長率對不對這是都是很大的一個需求喔還有排碳政策這部分國際趨勢我們看一下齁那政府呢他已經推動了2.0的這個政策是好事情但是呢想要跟的是院長你交換的意見是過去是R100可是這部分只是商業策略啊還有CFE |
| transcript.whisperx[436].start |
22762.972 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].end |
22776.862 |
| transcript.whisperx[436].text |
24小時7天全時的無碳的這個一個國際政策部分這才是更重要因為他就是聯合國的而且是國際的企業當中最重要的部分他在推動的你如果還要談到過去你只談到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].start |
22778.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].end |
22804.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[437].text |
在針對排碳政策你還只講到說再生能源事實上是不夠的我們再繼續往下看國際趨勢當中三十二兩百多個國家裡面三十二國家是用核能的核綠一起在這邊的那我現在就是提供的一個重點說如果深境造成這樣一個缺電的情況之下其實是一種政治的作為因為我們頭上反而家園了這種情況您還是目前民進黨政府還是推向的一個政治的作為才讓到現在的一個我剛所說的9月17號那個部分的 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].start |
22805.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].end |
22823.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[438].text |
這種所謂這種的缺電的吃緊的用電吃緊就是呈現出來的所以特別希望跟他講主委院長尤其在823的公投決定之後希望說你過去的1.0的政策呢通通都是在修修補補東補一個西補一個那希望是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].start |
22824.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].end |
22839.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[439].text |
您有一個政治家或者是一個對全國的全世界在能源上面的一個重點呢就是說以那個我能夠呈現出佐隆大2.0的部分全新的去做一個系統性的政策能源的一個規劃您覺得你的方向上是可以進行的嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].start |
22840.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].end |
22860.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[440].text |
我們在新的能源政策總統指示的2.0裡面剛剛委員已經把它秀出來了那個就是現在國家很具體的一個方向發展多元的綠能 深度節能 科技儲能而且要加強電網韌性現在就是往這個方向在走我們也有政策 我們也有經費我們也有執行的期程都有至於您說的非核家園 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].start |
22861.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].end |
22874.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[441].text |
但當初修法之後我們已經沒有那個時間上的限制但是我們認為傳統的核能對未來的子孫還是很大的這個負擔所以有新式的核能你沒有展上實質上的居酒啊32國家裡面包括日本包括南韓 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].start |
22876.858 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].end |
22905.028 |
| transcript.whisperx[442].text |
包括的是美國這邊都已經往這邊去進行了美國的核能部門還可以幫助我們去解決到我們今天的貿易逆差的問題所以請你好好在想著看起來您是不想要負政治責任啦2.0也不想做啦我們就看看未來在明年的時候看看榮產政府這邊的2.0政策能不能出現如果沒有我真的覺得你要負起政治責任了好現在這部分能源部議題我們告一個段落我們現在繼續往下看下一部分在請的是教育部教育的議題請教育部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].start |
22907.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].end |
22920.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[443].text |
教育部長教育議題上面我們看到的是一個教師荒這部分請問院長您對於這個教師荒會帶來什麼樣的影響您有什麼看法我們當然最近幾年一直在充實 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].start |
22921.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].end |
22949.577 |
| transcript.whisperx[444].text |
整個教育的經費讓他達到我們憲法上的一個大家過去的要求那也因為如此我們對教師的福利也持續的在做一些有效的增進我們也強化整個校園的教學的品質跟環境那對教師的任用我想教育部也一直在做多項的努力是不是請部長來說明好 那當然我想問一下部長我就是也要請問鄭部長就在說您認為教師荒是什麼因素造成的 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].start |
22950.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].end |
22973.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[445].text |
我想感謝委員關心中小學老師那確實因為少子化過去各縣市我進來的時候事實上幾年前大概各縣市因為擔心縣市的老師少子化以後減班所以老師要重新做一些所以你認為是少子化的影響而已嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].start |
22974.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].end |
22987.918 |
| transcript.whisperx[446].text |
我是說這是一個原因當然另外一個是產業上的一些原因我們繼續再往下看因為時間上面有限你剛才講到少子化跟產業上面需求重要的不過我們看到的是 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].start |
22989.5 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].end |
23015.196 |
| transcript.whisperx[447].text |
暑假結束之前你們發了新聞稿當中說缺額本來是25號的時候2600人後來也變成到1429人我們後來又變成說在開學前的時候僅剩下276人但是實際上面的情形我們看到了我自己在國教署的網站當中就看到的是很多的缺額都還在這部分看起來是一個數字有美化都是可能把 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].start |
23016.076 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].end |
23042.539 |
| transcript.whisperx[448].text |
行政的這個責任 教學的責任又給其他人去兼職了啦至少讓學生有做這個考慮到是有這樣的情形那我們現在看到這個缺額這部分的都還有都還有這麼多齁這個情況實質上的缺額我們看到的是我自己都看到網站上到10月份都還在爭代理教師的這個或是正式教師的總共缺額是581名那現在怎麼樣解決這個問題呢跟委員報告全國中小學有超過20萬人 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].start |
23043.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].end |
23071.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[449].text |
那因為各縣市還是我剛才講為了他們自己各控管8%以8%來講這個銀額已經超過了很少了81是非常少那我同意因為產業上的一個這個蓬勃的一個發展包含待遇所以有部分類科還有部分偏鄉的地方他確實在聘用老師是比較辛苦的那在這個8%的一個控管裡面 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].start |
23072.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].end |
23101.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[450].text |
你認為說這樣是可以的我就再繼續往下看去上個禮拜的時候其實全教總有提出五個訴求在五個訴求當中有部分我看到國教署也有在介紹這部分的限時問題上面我想包括行政減量代理教師權益職務加急這部分還有校園但書的問題我上次也聽到您到辦公室來講但書的問題到年底或之前會解決對不對有一個方向校士會議我們會讓他能夠有一個更 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].start |
23101.934 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].end |
23126.268 |
| transcript.whisperx[451].text |
更好的一個這個整個這個運作的程序也就是說我們希望把難數的這一塊能夠先取消的能夠減少因為從我們過去真正能夠真正被進入到那些這一個不是任教師的基本上他都是具名投訴的那我們以今年來看有1300多位大部分都是 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].start |
23127.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].end |
23153.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[452].text |
非居民 也就是說我們浪費非常多的一個部長你在很多的教師的努力之下 抗議之下你有做這個方向學習我覺得這個是實在肯定的我想那不是教師的抗議是教育部本來我們在許多的這些相關法令我們也了解也跟地方做許多的座談了解老師跟校長親家長的一個聲音我們做滾動式的修正修法這邊是不是年底的時候要確定可以出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].start |
23154.925 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].end |
23178.832 |
| transcript.whisperx[453].text |
關於在校士會議在高中老師以下的這個部分我們年底一定會我們事實上現在已經有初步的一個修訂了一個另外一個很重要的問題院長教育的問題是國本真的要考慮到的是在9月28日出現的那非常多的民眾因為連失陪生涯也不願意去繼續留在教育界當後輩的老師的有沒有考慮到要做開國師會議教育的國師會議 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].start |
23182.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].end |
23196.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[454].text |
我想教育的一個國師會議如果他只是一個大敗敗我覺得那就看你的誠心誠意啊院長院長我想要請院長回答一下院長國師教育會議百年大計有沒有機會可能 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].start |
23197.749 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].end |
23216.474 |
| transcript.whisperx[455].text |
教育部如何跟地方政府一起跟民間的團體跟教育團體一起來商討一個現在這幾個問題解決的方式如果教育部能夠做這樣的工作我非常的支持但不必叫做什麼國事會議他只要能夠針對問題來解決就好就需要繼續再監督沒有到動搖國本的狀況您認為還是還沒有到動搖國本的狀況就對了是吧 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].start |
23224.687 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].end |
23231.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[456].text |
我們不會讓教育動搖那我現在請 謝謝教育部長那我現在請李洋運動部長上台 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].start |
23242.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].end |
23259.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[457].text |
先請院長就先你回答一下好了這部分其實您請的李楊當部長我覺得是一個非常有遠見的一個做法這部分值得肯定那現在李楊部長來了就說部長您對於體育界你有六大具體措施您對體育界有什麼樣的改革規劃 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].start |
23260.27 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].end |
23278.943 |
| transcript.whisperx[458].text |
我們運動部最重要當然是全民運動落實多元平權以及永續發展的價值那當然我這邊要引用一下曾立軍副院長我認為曾立軍副院長說過步步都是文化部那我們認為步步都是運動部所以就是需要很多步步都需要互相的融合 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].start |
23279.764 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].end |
23291.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[459].text |
合作嘛對不對好那這樣子請問院長您對於新上任這個李洋部長的期許還有運動界的改革方向與像全民的運動這部分還有國際的方向你有沒有什麼樣的一個期許 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].start |
23292.469 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].end |
23312.063 |
| transcript.whisperx[460].text |
全民運動全民體育運動競技國際事務以及未來舉辦大型的以台灣元素的國際比賽以及適應運動適應體育等等都是李洋部長我們在第一次交換過意見當中他所提出的種種的想法我認為李部長一個最大的優點是他來自體育界食物界他有 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].start |
23313.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].end |
23336.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[461].text |
現役國手最好的經驗他知道我們的訓練中心該怎麼改革他知道現在單項協會該怎麼改革他知道怎麼樣訓練更年輕的下一輩的國家的體育好手他知道怎麼樣推動到整個社區教育跟著全民運動上面去而且另外一個重點是他沒有包袱我也不要給他任何的包袱我讓他盡量發揮他的想像的空間用新的觀念來帶領這個新的運動部 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].start |
23338.936 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].end |
23367.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[462].text |
好 非常期待未來有繼續這樣的一個表現不過現在運動部的員還沒有徵補完那什麼時候會徵補完畢呢新成立一個部會都有這樣的一個過渡的時機那現在他已經徵補我想大概一半人接近到年底的話 那個運動部有六成六成以上而已啊因為我們可以從各部調來我們可以外邊來招聘這個都需要有一點時間來討論但是主要的這幾個帶領運動部裡面的次長 司長 署長我們都已經訂 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].start |
23372.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].end |
23395.467 |
| transcript.whisperx[463].text |
好謝謝謝謝劉淑斌委員質詢謝謝左院長相關部會首長備詢謝謝抱怨會在我們一層二樓旁聽的來自臺北市成功高中的同學我們掌聲歡迎未來國家的棟樑我們接下來請王逸川委員質詢徐副魁委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].start |
23423.024 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].end |
23430.968 |
| transcript.whisperx[464].text |
謝謝謝謝院長我們是請這個卓院長還有內政部還有農業部的麻煩再請卓院長內政部農業部備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].start |
23441.875 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].end |
23466.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[465].text |
這一次花蓮光復鄉的這個事情我們來釐清幾件事情就是我想先請問農業部我們是不是有一個叫做這個院舍府警戒監測測理與演練的方案對不對那這什麼時候發布 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].start |
23467.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].end |
23484.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[466].text |
這是在莫拉克台灣完了以後因為因應很多相關的所以是98年的時候奉抱怨合定的一個方案這件事情是全台灣所有縣市長跟縣市政府應該都知道有這件事對好第二個請這個劉部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].start |
23487.082 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].end |
23515.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[467].text |
花蓮縣平均每兩年都有一個叫做花蓮縣地區災害防救計畫報到內政部或消防署這些資料現在都網路上都找得到對不對那我現在給各位看的這個是113年1月的版本這目前在網路上花蓮縣最新的版本在他們的報告的第三篇的第三章 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].start |
23516.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].end |
23530.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[468].text |
第三節啊裡頭就有一個關於這個土石流關於大規模的這種災害要做的事情這本報告是花蓮縣政府寫的 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].start |
23532.776 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].end |
23557.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[469].text |
劉部長 這個每一個縣市都有這本計畫是的 每兩年要更新一次每兩年更新一次最近一次更新應該是114年好 這113年給的初稿那114年應該有新的版本這個計畫也是中央補助各縣市的協力團隊一起來完成的這本報告都七八八頁喔然後這些是花蓮縣政府自己擬的嘛 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].start |
23558.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].end |
23576.526 |
| transcript.whisperx[470].text |
對 但是他也是參考各種不同的食物經驗裡面是22種不同的災害裡面有各式各樣災害的疏散計畫所以我就請問農業部長這一次的災害花蓮縣政府在9月的時候 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].start |
23577.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].end |
23593.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[471].text |
他們有沒有開會在討論疏散計畫有沒有在應變中心的時候說他們有疏散計畫然後呢 實際上大馬村 關戶鄉的大馬村村長說 有啊 中央打電話給我們啊叫我們趕快疏散啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].start |
23597.561 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].end |
23618.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[472].text |
這到底怎麼回事 你可不可以還原一下因為今天早上啊 副軍局總召一副就說 我也不知道要不要疏散啊啊你中央都沒倒三缸啊 我也不知道要不要疏散啊明明在街尾都塞在這裡 都自己塞的啊塞到大馬村的村長因為九月份我有看到一個文件花蓮縣光復鄉各村啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].start |
23618.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].end |
23627.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[473].text |
每一村都有一張疏散的地圖我相信那個村長就拿那個疏散地圖把他們的村民疏散到該去的地方對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].start |
23630.104 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].end |
23653.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[474].text |
我跟委員報告就是從7269縣政府成立專案小組以來我們不斷的從監測裡面得到的數據跟地方政府分享跟公所分享那在花家栽颱風的最近之前最近的一次是9月17號17號的時候他們縣政府有開相關的會議那個會議最主要是要因應9月19號 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].start |
23654.534 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].end |
23673.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[475].text |
跨部會的專案小組要去提報因為之前跟縣政府提說他們要盡快的研擬相關的計畫但是他們一直沒辦法完整的研擬出來所以在在九月七 老闆請問一下他們研擬不出來有沒有求救啊有沒有叫中央倒三工一個我們就嚇不出來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].start |
23674.315 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].end |
23691.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[476].text |
因為他的會議紀錄是9月30號9月10號開會 9月30號才提供的那我們從他的會議紀錄裡面來其實有一個非常重要的就是我們那時候還沒有劃加紮颱風所以那個時候的一些情境我們一直希望說他儘管這個公務緩緩就算了 劉部長你在應變中心當指揮官 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].start |
23696.092 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].end |
23714.011 |
| transcript.whisperx[477].text |
花蓮縣不管是管到副管到參加會議不管是視訊什麼什麼會議就對了這個過程當中啊他們到底有沒有說我們花蓮縣真的不知道處理被請人請背後我們真的沒辦法啦拜託啦 中央搞什麼講一個這樣的求救的訊號到底有沒有出來啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].start |
23714.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].end |
23736.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[478].text |
報告王委員我是在華家沙颱風海警的時候就在中央處理這個有關災害應變的部分也就是全台灣各地台東屏東都加在內其實我們都陸陸續續通知他有這件事情需要好好的處理所以我舉一個很簡單的例子在9月22日下午3點的時候那個時候是整個22日是8月1日 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].start |
23738.582 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].end |
23767.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[479].text |
總統跟行政院長都有到中央災害應變中心那時候是由顏新章副縣長他來跟總統做視訊上面的對話我把很簡單的文字跟委員報告一下總統 院長 中央的長官大家午安花蓮縣副縣長顏新章報告因為我們縣長在國外馬上要趕回來了所以要跟總統報告對於華家沙 颱風的部分有其他的黃色警箭但是比較重要的是有關艷澀湖撤離的部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].start |
23767.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].end |
23786.26 |
| transcript.whisperx[480].text |
我們的兵力預置在三個鄉鎮光復鄉鳳林鎮跟萬榮鄉總共有國防部派出的中型戰術輪車8輛救護車1輛兵力54名警消協作105名還有替代役13名總共157名可以隨時申請收容人數的部分三個鄉鎮總共有1837戶這是我們告訴他的 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].start |
23789.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].end |
23817.391 |
| transcript.whisperx[481].text |
實際居住人數6843人收容地點有光復商職鳳林鎮樂活會館萬榮國小活動中心3處收容總共有130人依親有1365人垂直避難有5348人也就是說嚴新章副縣長在中央災害應變中心跟總統跟院長在做這樣視訊會議的時候他已經明確告訴我們包括收容安置依親跟垂直避難他們都已經準備好了 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].start |
23818.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].end |
23842.991 |
| transcript.whisperx[482].text |
就是聽你講起來就是不管總統主席你主席各式各樣的指揮官主席的心花蓮縣政府並沒有非常具體的說我們真的沒有發動事後再來說我現在真的沒有發動這個事情我覺得我們應變中心領綱中央在開的時候各縣市的代表說沒有問題的時候麻煩你再確認一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].start |
23844.412 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].end |
23868.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[483].text |
這樣好不好 再確定一下啦不然輸都輸啦 輸說沒問題我都做好了 輸你輸到你輸的都具體的數字啊都到個位數咧報告我們在跟縣市長視訊的過程總統我或是指揮官都會再講一句話縣市還有沒有需要中央協助資源都會講這句話那這一題我想這個大家把事實釐清啦好那接下來老師請這個教育部長好不好麻煩請教育部長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].start |
23874.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].end |
23884.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[484].text |
這個先問一下卓院長卓院長你知不知道什麼叫做抖音啊你有時候手機沒小心記錯的時候會記到抖音的影片你覺得這樣還記過 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].start |
23885.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].end |
23912.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[485].text |
有不小心按到啦 也不會對對來的可能看臉書看什麼就會回到有時候他要我進入他的程序程式才看得到 那我就從來不會進去對 還有他有已經改做短片了嘛那抖音對兒童啊 對少年都會有很大的影響 部長這句話你認同啦國內外的研究確實有很多都證實那我們現在的小學生用抖音的狀況 部長了解嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].start |
23915.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].end |
23924.708 |
| transcript.whisperx[486].text |
我們在學術網路上在校園裡面他是被隔離的那學生在學校裡頭如果有機會玩手機玩到抖音裡面怎麼處理啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].start |
23925.888 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].end |
23945.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[487].text |
目前我們確實也透過這一個三大的通信業者我們透過開學跟一些校園有一些活動來協助家長如果他我們會指導他然後甚至有QR code就是說教他有一些怎麼樣處理可以隔離的 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].start |
23946.417 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].end |
23966.902 |
| transcript.whisperx[488].text |
你會知道有時候青少年、年輕人白白白忙你叫他不要用,他就直接用嘛這就是小朋友嘛他可能不知道事情的嚴重性嘛,他就這樣用啦我是建議這樣啦,教育部你們研究一下研究一下,院長你也能表達你的看法,還是你要回原意都可以 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].start |
23967.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].end |
23996.762 |
| transcript.whisperx[489].text |
我們現在的國中小啊好像補充說學術網路啦可能說學校的電腦啦載出去 載不出去啦可以小朋友啊住家住好有時候要開放用手機的時間嘛齁這個時候啊如果他用抖音啦會嗨啦因為所有的個資啊小朋友的個資都會出去啊有些小朋友為了那個零用錢齁十塊 一百塊 兩百塊 一堆有的沒的都有可能去拼啦齁那這些事情啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].start |
23997.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].end |
24026.416 |
| transcript.whisperx[490].text |
可不可以這樣 就是學校的老師跟小朋友在使用抖音上我講的是在校園裡面 他要回去他父母要給他 怎麼用這個我們管不到在學校裡頭 老師教小朋友中小學 國中國小的老師跟小朋友在校園裡頭 不管用手機還是什麼 連老師啊都研究看看 看能不能盡量不要用還是要怎麼用不要再用這些小朋友 從小就在用抖音 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].start |
24027.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].end |
24030.166 |
| transcript.whisperx[491].text |
伯父, 現在我可以回去見教嗎? |
| transcript.whisperx[492].start |
24032.035 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].end |
24059.777 |
| transcript.whisperx[492].text |
我想這個我們會來這個研議看怎麼樣這個讓老師不要再用抖音來指導學生我想這個應該要避免因為老師喔 老師一生成年人啦他自己要用這個我們也難過啦因為老師也是一生成年人他自己的事小朋友不一定啦所以老師跟學生之間在校園裡頭再強調一下 在校園裡頭欸 你不想要在旁邊怎麼樣啦不想要暑假作業啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].start |
24060.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].end |
24070.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[493].text |
小朋友拍抖音啊啊來搞作業搞影音作業先放抖音一樓學校還在放抖音嗯啊老師還沒給懂這樣就整天廢棄喔 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].start |
24071.735 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].end |
24096.58 |
| transcript.whisperx[494].text |
所以這個事情請教育部我們來研究看怎麼樣來讓老師在裡邊能夠建立共識要不要再用抖音來要尊重好老師 國中小的老師尊重他 請教師團體有哪道三感研究看看這個我是有這樣的建議研究看看 看要怎麼樣來處理不然我覺得這事情越來越嚴重 好不好 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].start |
24097.128 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].end |
24106.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[495].text |
好 謝謝委員接下來我們請交通部跟麻煩請交通部長內政部好不好內政部長備詢內政部長請你一台好好 陳部長我們這一次在光復這花蓮光復救災的時候有一組人到現在都要讓人感謝叫做台鐵 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].start |
24120.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].end |
24128.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[496].text |
台鐵對於第一天開始 加一個人進出外國人擺在外面 台鐵反應非常快反應非常快 說光復戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].start |
24129.912 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].end |
24150.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[497].text |
自由進出啦 反正我給你一張單 代表你是從這張進去的從這張出來 要回來到台北要送 到台北還要送啦要高雄到高雄還要送啦 是不是這樣好 台鐵現在公司好啊台鐵公司好啊 你現在還要叫他自負盈虧了解他還笑嗎 上一道 我覺得他應該了解很多事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].start |
24153.424 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].end |
24169.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[498].text |
因為現在這責任沒什麼管制嘛 就是光復戰進出啦所以台鐵軟鋼 都要加班因為你家開班是嗎 都要加班 連清掃的都加班啊你們去研究看 這要怎麼把台鐵軟鋼啦不要說廣西啦 軟鋼啦 要怎麼補充一下 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].start |
24175.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].end |
24195.193 |
| transcript.whisperx[499].text |
回去研究一下好不好好 報告委員齁這個部分我們一定會來研究一方面是針對員工的部分這一次不只是加班而且我們從其他地方調了很多人員來這邊協助全部都會給他們一些加獎那並且給他們該有的加班費一定都會給他們獎勵齁這個部分沒問題那給公司的獎勵的部分跟協助的部分我們也會來研議 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].start |
24195.993 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].end |
24210.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[500].text |
好啦 你這跟國營事業有一個考程嘛那一塊的時候啊 拜託跟倒三天一個 要不台鐵喔大家都在感謝 沒人感謝就台鐵啊我非常感謝有啦齁 這個要協助他們接下來啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].start |
24211.041 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].end |
24229.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[501].text |
交通問題很多的調查交通問題都各縣市最有感的課題交通問題交通問題我個人建議這樣主要是上班不能低得下班的時間大家不一定第一小朋友跟老人在學校周邊要安全第三等於要有停車位 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].start |
24229.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].end |
24256.114 |
| transcript.whisperx[502].text |
現在回去住公寓的都沒停車位這麼多所以第一個上班不要遲到我是建議這樣舉我桃園做例子我們每天有四十幾萬人進到雙北一天四十六萬人進來雙北我們現在的課題都說桃園的人要來雙北上班那沒辦法因為桃園的就業機會實施比較多都來雙北上班要到該關 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].start |
24260.177 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].end |
24269.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[503].text |
首都圈啊 北北幾島的這些移動的課題我知道現在有台鐵 桃園有桃園捷運有高鐵可是很多人還是要開車走就收工囉 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].start |
24270.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].end |
24291.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[504].text |
阿投降自己要去捷運喔 現在規劃都是內部啦投降來電 投降來電移動的數量不多啦重點是投降要往雙北 往新北 往台北不對啦 你回去到協調 到整合一下有沒有辦法啦 新百企的啦 新百企的捷運喔繞一繞 再繞一繞 繞來玩投降啦 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].start |
24293.726 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].end |
24294.846 |
| transcript.whisperx[505].text |
我們投行一直很勤勞選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].start |
24320.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].end |
24347.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[506].text |
我知道我們學校有通學校 交通鄰近區有國土署的 有交通補助的嘛這條像卓院長兩個補定 這預算絕對不能減去這要越做越多 現在不是每一個學校都有做因為有優先順序 經費也有限我們去一份看人家做到很好的卓院長 這條是不是 高雄要幫我們補一下我們第一年有400處的學校 周邊會把它教室完成 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].start |
24351.616 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].end |
24378.369 |
| transcript.whisperx[507].text |
好 謝謝王一川委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝接下來我們請徐富奎委員質詢 林沛翔委員請準備謝謝主席 我們有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].start |
24389.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].end |
24416.897 |
| transcript.whisperx[508].text |
徐委員好 院長好 院長辛苦了早上我看到我們民眾黨團有提到說他們要把總預算退回去從邊甚至要告你賭職而且引用刑法第129條第二項這真嚴重院長我想他們指控你扣課軍人的加薪還有警銷的退休金還有說未來要協助他們國賠 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].start |
24418.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].end |
24446.62 |
| transcript.whisperx[509].text |
你覺得你有所謂的一個賭職的狀況請院長回答身為憲政機關我們在憲法的制度底下維護行政院應該有的職權我想這個是我的責任我只希望說行政院編預算的過程跟立法院審預算的結果都要合於利民利國的這個方向如果立法院要大幅增加行政院的支出一定要事先來徵詢並且共同找出裁員 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].start |
24447.898 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].end |
24467.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[510].text |
沒有履行到這個程序就是違反了憲法違反了預算法違反了財政紀律法相關的規定也違反了很多的很多的這個大法官的解釋所以在這個情況底下我們必須捍衛憲法我也必須進到憲政機關的職人我希望在野的黨團能夠了解凡是 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].start |
24468.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].end |
24490.867 |
| transcript.whisperx[511].text |
要在立法院裡面討論我們願意主動積極的參與各項討論但是一定要有這種過程而不是在這裡用表決就可以把預算無限上綱這樣就是會敗壞國家的財政紀律讓國庫空虛而且影響中央地方的事權分立更嚴重的是破壞了整個憲政秩序 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].start |
24492.103 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].end |
24504.036 |
| transcript.whisperx[512].text |
院長我想從去年到現在我們看到這個不管是國民黨也好民眾黨也好這個在立法院上演這個政治的一個亂劇不管是這個立法修法的過程 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].start |
24507.78 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].end |
24535.301 |
| transcript.whisperx[513].text |
根本就沒有一個所謂的一個法治觀念甚至連這個總預算還有我們財劃法在修的過程裡面根本不讓我們行政機關行政團隊有講話的機會連我們都押手押手我們也要給人照顧給人修理那我想面對這樣的一個財政的一個困境院長針對這個總預算的部分您個人有什麼看法未來怎麼樣來跟我們的韓院長來配合怎麼來做這個做一個妥善的一個處理明年的總預算中央編列稅數3兆0350億 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].start |
24538.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].end |
24563.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[514].text |
如果跟今年比較起來加上今年後來通過的追加預算明年只增加了220而已其實在整個國家正在大量要因應整個國際情勢來看增加的幅度並不算大反而是很小的在這個情況底下我當然誠懇的希望大院能夠提早順利合理的審議明年度的中央政府總預算至於其中爭議的包括 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].start |
24565.588 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].end |
24583.807 |
| transcript.whisperx[515].text |
警消的退休條例的問題還有軍人的待遇大法官會議做怎麼樣的解釋行政院就接受違憲我們當然不可編合憲我們就編而且可以追加到今年的年初開始以來這已經講得很清楚了用這個理由來卡住年度的總預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].start |
24584.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].end |
24605.163 |
| transcript.whisperx[516].text |
背景中央沒有預算地方沒有預算人民該有的福利也會減少該有的經濟發展也會減少公共建設也會減少國防支出也會減少這是何其重大之事所以我還是誠懇的拜託我也希望朝野黨團我也能夠我們再跟譚院長一起跟大家坐下來談談到一個大家都能夠接受的方案 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].start |
24606.446 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].end |
24630.724 |
| transcript.whisperx[517].text |
總之把預算盡快的付為 合理的審查這是全民的期待院長 我想我們肯定軍公教對這個台灣社會的一個貢獻但我們還有士農工商我們再多做事 還有企業 養殖的我想每個人在不一樣的工作崗位上都扮演了他們的角色我們這些的鄉親也是應該我們要照顧的對象我想院長應該認同這樣的一個論調 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].start |
24633.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].end |
24659.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[518].text |
國軍的待遇的福利我們今年已經增加了171億在裡面包括我們追加預算的59.5億已經171億在裡面我們沒有對國軍的貢獻有任何的疏忽或不尊重我們期待在所有的公務人員橫貧的情況底下大家能夠逐步緩緩的有秩序的上升這個是我們在提升公教人員的福利以及我們對勞工朋友在最低工資一樣的同樣的道理來做同樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].start |
24660.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].end |
24686.449 |
| transcript.whisperx[519].text |
我想總統講的這個均衡台灣是我們大家要努力的目標但是沒錢就沒辦法做事情啦那尤其這個我要替我們屏東縣教訓這個新的財務法修正之後我們算一算明年我們不是增加100多億呢反而少了42億啦屏東縣的財源就已經本來就很拮据了少了這個40幾億之後未來如果中央要把一些市權再交給地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].start |
24687.009 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].end |
24705.733 |
| transcript.whisperx[520].text |
讓屏東縣政府去執行我想這個對屏東縣政府來講真的是會雪上加霜院長尤其我現在擔心的是我們原本2020年明年的交通部提報了2200億的一個公共建設的一個預算其中對於包含我們這個縣市政府的一個交通的補助包含捷運的補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].start |
24706.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].end |
24732.075 |
| transcript.whisperx[521].text |
但是後來因為柴化被砍了一半剩下1100億那我們很擔心我們屏東縣的目前我們有高鐵有公路有鐵路有捷運有航口這些東西都已經在規劃都已經在準備要進行我們的這個打造我們屏東的一個交通的一個動脈如果說這樣子中央政府沒有支持我們屏東縣那未來我們怎麼辦院長還有部長我們未來怎麼樣因應這樣的一個困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].start |
24732.914 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].end |
24759.397 |
| transcript.whisperx[522].text |
細節部分請部長回答我先跟委員報告這個財化法的構想我希望是達到垂直的分配能夠市權能夠劃分水平的分配能夠均衡台灣台灣均衡所以剛剛你提到的就是這個樣子為什麼屏東縣會少的比別人多就是水平劃分不理想因為他只用人口用土地用營業 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].start |
24761.186 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].end |
24786.548 |
| transcript.whisperx[523].text |
這對貧窮境來講是大量土地當作土地農業使用的是極端的不公平所以未來我們新的構想的財發法是要從人口結構土地利用各方面都要有它的權重這樣才能滿足這個水平的分配至於垂直的地方跟中央的權限要劃分清楚至於您說的地方的補助我覺得重大的在建設中央該做的一定會下手放手去做有些跟地方合作的將來可能就是在地方分配 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].start |
24787.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].end |
24811.386 |
| transcript.whisperx[524].text |
額上面來做一些調整來看地方的財政機制做怎麼樣的調整所以您說的個案我們請部長來說明跟委員報告比較重大的這個中央該做的建設那中央一定就會來做包含我們這個軌道的部分如果是中央的例如說台鐵我們目前在推的這個南回的電氣跟雙軌化的部分中央一定會努力來推行 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].start |
24812.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].end |
24831.213 |
| transcript.whisperx[525].text |
包含一些快速道路包含這個屏南二快包含這個屏南快跟這個高屏二快這個部分我們一定會來快速來推行包含高鐵的部分我們會快速來推行不過軌道的部分還有另外一個部分是地方新辦的例如說捷運捷運的部分確實在才化法之後 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].start |
24831.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].end |
24850.558 |
| transcript.whisperx[526].text |
中央可以協助地方的力道確實是減少了尤其是這幾年地方在軌道方面的需求尤其是捷運的需求的數額是相當相當大例如說今年大概是399億地方的需求到了明年可能就破千億到了後年可能就是800多億 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].start |
24851.803 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].end |
24876.197 |
| transcript.whisperx[527].text |
那這個部分因為財化法的分化之後確實交通部能夠協助地方的力道確實是減少那這個部分就要看地方的財政上面透過統籌分配款的部分自己所增加的部分能不能來支應我想這邊還是要跟院長跟部長請你們多幫忙我每次到院會也好或是到委員會也好我都聽到我們雙北也好台中也好 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].start |
24876.721 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].end |
24901.816 |
| transcript.whisperx[528].text |
大家都在說什麼 我們現在爭取第幾條的捷運我們要什麼 要什麼 要什麼 都好幾千億對屏東來講 我們沒有高鐵 我們沒有捷運我們現在連鐵路都還沒有雙軌電氣化我們每一行都沒有 我們情何以堪我們沒有垃圾 我們不是二等國民院長 部長 你可以知道我們的痛嗎請委員能夠理解我們現在希望說財政能力比較不佳的縣市 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].start |
24902.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].end |
24912.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[529].text |
我們給多一點的統籌分配稅款同時建設發展比較慢的地方我們加快它的速度這才是總統所說的均衡台灣而不是強者越強 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].start |
24913.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].end |
24935.471 |
| transcript.whisperx[530].text |
但評者卻沒有變強這就不是均衡台灣可是目前的財發法真的呈現這樣的一個狀況我們必須把它導正回來我們也期待現在台灣應該可以變成一日生活圈的概念那所以很多的基礎建設尤其交通建設我們也期待我們現在的行政院團隊能夠加快進行但是不能用這樣的一個惡修財發法惡殺了我們所謂的一個南部人的一個權益問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].start |
24936.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].end |
24953.627 |
| transcript.whisperx[531].text |
另外我們一樣我們屏東人很多也在高雄上班我們也希望有便捷的交通有捷運可以坐那也減少這樣所謂的一個騎機車開車的這可以減少一個空氣污染的機會我們也希望啊問題是都看得到找不到啊我們的困難是在這裡啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].start |
24954.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].end |
24970.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[532].text |
那好不容易我們判到了在這個院長跟部長的努力下我們判到了我們都已經在做設計規劃都已經找到應該要進行時間也都定出來但是因為一個惡修才化法好像又感覺那個希望又沒了我們真的很擔心 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].start |
24971.716 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].end |
24990.55 |
| transcript.whisperx[533].text |
院長跟部長能不能在這邊當場承諾讓我們屏東匯鄉親放心我們一定支持到部長剛剛說的高屏二塊我們已經合了那屏南塊我們現在因為他過去有一個路線重疊的問題那現在大概也因為他分期來施作目前正在綜合規劃中正在中規當中屏南塊那高鐵我們還按照既有的進度 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].start |
24992.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].end |
25016.905 |
| transcript.whisperx[534].text |
採取高雄方案進入到屏東那我們原本是宣布說2039高鐵到屏東那是不是可以明年我們在相關包含六塊錯車站的動工土地徵收部分能加快進行跟委員報告六塊錯的這個車站我們會先來進行因為它除了這個高鐵的車站之外也牽涉到我們這個台鐵高架化的這個車站所以六塊錯的車站我們會優先來進行 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].start |
25018.592 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].end |
25047.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[535].text |
那我想這個濱南快速道路也是我們恆春半島鄉親的痛尤其這個寶頂 你的外婆現在在訪寮這個連續假期真的天昏地暗真的能不能加快時程因為我知道我們這個公路局也很認真在做規劃但是因為環評的部分這我要特別拜託彭部長環評的部分一定要加快進行我們同步來做規劃尤其最容易塞車的從風港到水里這段一定要優先動工 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].start |
25047.864 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].end |
25064.231 |
| transcript.whisperx[536].text |
才能夠紓解這個交通困境這部長有沒有信心是跟委員報告我們希望看可不可以我們就分段來進行現在正在中規當中那比較交通熱點的部分也就是比較容易塞車的部分我們希望能夠拆開來能夠另外來進行希望能夠加速 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].start |
25065.148 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].end |
25090.917 |
| transcript.whisperx[537].text |
那另外我們這個恆春半島的觀光我們有一個很重要的一個交通建設就是恆春觀光鐵道我想這個也是我們期待能夠重新讓恆春能夠風華在線的一個軌道建設那這個部分也要拜託部長能夠加快來進行這個有在進行當中那部長請回院長我今天有帶來一個這個很可愛的院長知道這是什麼東西嗎綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠綠� |
| transcript.whisperx[538].start |
25097.884 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].end |
25123.684 |
| transcript.whisperx[538].text |
這個真的是我們現在我們農民的痛啦尤其現在是我們紅豆這個播種這些紅豆的嫩芽全部都要吃光光那我想我包含我在這個院裡面也好也在委員會我也多次拜託我們陳部長這個屏東我們農民很可憐的啦風太激這個風太肆虐這個好不容易重建家園紅豆的蔣蕊又開始遭到綠葉蜥的攻擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].start |
25124.773 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].end |
25138.668 |
| transcript.whisperx[539].text |
那我去年我特別我印象很深刻我在委員會的時候有特別秀了一張照片院長這就是農民他們自立救濟在他的農田周邊他用網子用魚網圍起來捕捉到的濾烈蜥 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].start |
25139.878 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].end |
25164.158 |
| transcript.whisperx[540].text |
那當然我知道部長我們今年我們有特別編列了一個預算鼓勵我們這個受訓的一個專門的獵人來捕捉但是捉不勝捉他的繁殖力太強了部長這個我想今年已經捉了二十幾萬二十幾萬 但是呢光是我們在地方一點鐘看了兩三十隻你說這數量有恐怖嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].start |
25165.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].end |
25182.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[541].text |
我們有沒有機會如果說除了這個公務部門來增加這個捕獲的一個經費之外有沒有可能真的讓我們這個自立農民補助他們相關的一些資材最不一定他在旁邊被圍起來能夠先解除這個濾液器的危害可不可以做這樣的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].start |
25183.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].end |
25210.948 |
| transcript.whisperx[542].text |
我跟委員報告今年到目前為止大概將近18萬隻左右抓了18萬隻我們估計大概現在的族群大概是我們現在抓的兩倍到三倍事實上濾淚器已不可能完全移除了但是我們只能把它的密度降低那誠如剛才委員所說的它一隻母的濾淚器可以生20個到70個蛋所以它的繁殖倍率是非常強的如果再不 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].start |
25211.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].end |
25233.623 |
| transcript.whisperx[543].text |
抑制它的密度的時候那未來可能是一個大氾濫所以我們才會更強力的去爭取行政的預算來繼續執行那第二個部分就是在特別在屏東地區有一些農田的確是被濾滅器去啃食所以我們現在也研議就是說用什麼樣的防治類似我們在防猴子一樣就是有一些 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].start |
25234.443 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].end |
25253.85 |
| transcript.whisperx[544].text |
可以維持讓濾烈器不會進到田裡或者是可以趁機會能夠捕捉的這些資材這個資材的部分我們正在規劃看有什麼方式來提供給農民我想這個不難啦我們鄉親就用希望啊圍起來一個晚上就可以產十幾隻了 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].start |
25255.305 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].end |
25279.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[545].text |
這真的是一個最對他們來講是一個防治的一個目前為止找到一個比較好的一個方式這沒多少錢應該是可以考慮來補助一下我們的農民我們有考慮經費的部分經驗度變了一筆經費好像不足農業部已經提出大概7000萬左右的第二預備金委員這麼的關心跟我們對農民的一些協助我這個預備金我當然會同意而且盡快來執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].start |
25281.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].end |
25291.646 |
| transcript.whisperx[546].text |
館長我是建議我們花小錢啦不要到時候農民要邀給你餵農水那你吃辣辣辣那最後我想我要把這支濾劣細胞要送給我們院長跟部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].start |
25311.411 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].end |
25333.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[547].text |
好謝謝徐富奎委員的質詢謝謝左院長相關部會首長備詢謝謝我們接下來第一部分林佩祥委員最後一位質詢之後我們將會休息十分鐘休息之後請黃秀芳委員質詢現在我們請林佩祥委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].start |
25343.818 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].end |
25352.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[548].text |
主席 各位同仁午安有請卓院長跟法務部正部長麻煩再請卓院長 法務部長備詢評委員好院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].start |
25365.885 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].end |
25386.444 |
| transcript.whisperx[549].text |
中華民國即將會面對所謂超高齡社會的嚴峻問題,因此本人必須嚴肅的指出,我們社會正在經歷歷史性的家庭結構轉型,但是我們的民法繼承篇卻仍停留在數十年前大家庭思維,導致法治跟民情嚴重脫節。 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].start |
25387.825 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].end |
25413.32 |
| transcript.whisperx[550].text |
根據最新統計 全國涉及兩人以下包括單身或頂客族的家庭 佔比將近五成在主要都會區甚至過半然而 我們很多單身或頂客族公民在面臨生命中期規劃時卻因現行《民法》第1223條第四款的兄弟姊妹特留份規定陷入財產自主權被侵害的困境 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].start |
25413.82 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].end |
25436.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[551].text |
即使繼承人立下遺囑明確表達不願將財產分配給關係不睦長期疏遠或從無貢獻的手足法律仍強制將這些手足享有應計三分之一的特留份這種制度的設計不僅不公更是對我們公民遺屬自由的踐踏 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].start |
25437.99 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].end |
25460.487 |
| transcript.whisperx[552].text |
身為一個立法委員本席不能接受國家法制形同懲罰選擇不孕或單身的國民所以請問院長行政院是否承認現行民法第1223條第4款以對數量龐大而且持續增長的單身跟頂客族群構成不合理的財產權利侵害 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].start |
25462.766 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].end |
25487.203 |
| transcript.whisperx[553].text |
民法當中對於法定的繼承權人除了應濟份之外他有特留份的一個設計就希望說不要因為太多的好惡把一個人所有的權利給他抹殺掉所以配偶跟子女之間對於他的應濟份特留份都有相同的一個保障兄弟姊妹之間也有特留份的保障這是現在民法的規定跟民法的設計我這個設計來自多年了 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].start |
25489.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].end |
25506.172 |
| transcript.whisperx[554].text |
那我也想請問行政院對於保障公民遺主自由跟財產自主權的政策優先順序為何是否同意個人在沒有核心家庭成員像是子女 父母之後對其財產擁有完全的處分權呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].start |
25507.633 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].end |
25521.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[555].text |
這當然是可以一個討論的方向但是我會更重視的是整個法律的橫平性它的穩定性如果這樣一改過之後會不會在繼承的訴訟上面會徒增很多無謂的紛爭就是等一下我們會提到那現在我請教部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].start |
25523.191 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].end |
25537.886 |
| transcript.whisperx[556].text |
在中央政府所掌握的家庭人口結構變遷數據上面是否支持將兄弟姊妹在現今社會結構下視為法律上必須強制保障特留份的核心家庭成員 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].start |
25539.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].end |
25564.477 |
| transcript.whisperx[557].text |
這個特留份是應激分的二分之一這個法定是這樣我想這個特留份當然有移組的一個剛才有說保證單身跟頂客移組自由這個是可以討論的我想說這個特留份的話當然是保證繼承人繼承權人的一個權利那是不是要保留我們認為這是可以討論的好 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].start |
25565.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].end |
25581.014 |
| transcript.whisperx[558].text |
法務部在嚴厲因應少子化跟高齡化社會的相關配套政策時是否會積極主張行政院加速推動所謂繼承篇的修法以使法律規範批辟現代社會結構的現實呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].start |
25583.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].end |
25603.337 |
| transcript.whisperx[559].text |
我想這個繼承權的這份應金跟特留份我想要與時俱進但我想這個我們會考慮到現在這個時代的一個需求來考慮這個要不要再做一個檢討那我想一個法律的話有它的安定性那我想要不要改還要廣納各界的意見要做怎麼樣的一個調整 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].start |
25604.498 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].end |
25630.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[560].text |
據我所了解目前修法的方向可能將研議將兄弟姊妹的特留份從三分之一微幅調降到四分之一但是我想請問院長這樣子微幅調降的比例方案是不是能夠根本解決被繼承人想完全排除兄弟姊妹的核心需求如果我們採取折衷方案是否會導致繼承的爭議跟法律訴訟造成更大的社會成本呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].start |
25631.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].end |
25655.612 |
| transcript.whisperx[561].text |
這個是一體的兩面因為你保留了特留份之後繼承人 被繼承人他主張怎麼樣他都必須在這法律的限制當中維護繼承權人基本的權利但如果這個都拿掉會變成0跟100之間的選擇那這個當中就會出現很多遺囑是真是假或者是必須舉證更多來證明這個不公平不公平的分配是 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].start |
25656.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].end |
25685.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[562].text |
背棄了人的真正的意思這就是我們一剛開始在提現在頂客族跟單身族越來越多了所以如果兄弟姊妹少的話這特留份的意義他並沒有那麼嚴重我們不能預設一場兄弟姊妹少而是說他們是不是能夠對自己的遺產有絕對的自主權我們討論的重點不是在兄弟姊妹該分多少而是他們覺得兄弟姊妹不想分的時候他們必須要分這特留份那不是一種不公平嗎跟委員報告公不公平我想這個大家是可以討論的還管他的意見 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].start |
25686.508 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].end |
25712.811 |
| transcript.whisperx[563].text |
尤其是要給多少那個是屬於那個被繼承人的一個遺囑上的一個如果說他的繼承是說他在生前就已經講好了但是後面我們的法律如果說沒有辦法去符合他們這些人的需求這些頂客族跟單身主權需求如果用證語就沒有這個限制但如果用生前的證語就沒有這個限制 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].start |
25713.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].end |
25730.86 |
| transcript.whisperx[564].text |
所以說這就是我們等一下要講到的其實我認同所謂公民聯署上面的主張是直接刪除民法第1223條第4款那如果說行政院是不是能夠以廢除兄弟姊妹特留份為目標進行修法研議而不是說只是比例上面的微調呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].start |
25732.502 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].end |
25743.9 |
| transcript.whisperx[565].text |
這個我們必須要廣納各界的意見法律界的意見那很多民間的意見我們還要在法律上學術界的意見也是要看怎麼樣讓這個法律它能夠執行起來 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].start |
25745.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].end |
25768.004 |
| transcript.whisperx[566].text |
除了這個穩定性之外他能夠在公平性上保障個人的基本權利能夠互相尊重有沒有一個時效性因為我知道說這些修法其實都是曠日廢時的我們現在是第11屆立法委員我不希望到第13屆立法委員的時候我們還在討論說那時候搞不好全國已經超過七成以上的就都是單身族或頂客族或者只有毛小孩 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].start |
25768.824 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].end |
25797.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[567].text |
這個是有可能發生的事情尤其在高齡化社會的時候我們必須與時俱進老實講這句話時空背景不同對於這個修法其實是很有必要的這句話我們過去一年半之間常常聽到但是時空背景不同是這一次修法上面我們必須要重視的一點以前我們沒想到頂客族會這麼多現在的確這麼多了所以我會在這邊呼籲我們繼承的法治不應該成為現在公民財產自主權的最後一道障礙而且老實說 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].start |
25798.744 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].end |
25824.366 |
| transcript.whisperx[568].text |
我們法律的責任是因為替人民提供簡便公平的途徑來實現其個人的意志而不是迫使我們公民耗費高昂的成本去尋求信託保險等專業的法律工具來規避法律規定如果這種事情發生了不但倒從我們社會資源浪費之外也凸顯了這個法規基本上沒有與時俱進本身法規是一種失能的 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].start |
25825.168 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].end |
25838.702 |
| transcript.whisperx[569].text |
我再強調一次超高齡社會台灣很快就會進入而我們都在其中之一我在這邊懇請我們行政院正視單身族跟頂客族群的權益以保障遺族自由為原則 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].start |
25841.485 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].end |
25867.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[570].text |
以國際法制為借鏡我們來採取行動廢除不合時宜的兄弟姊妹特留份規定我覺得這方面來講我們來確保所有公民的財產自主權如果說家庭倫理沒有不好但是老實說與時俱進現在已經大家庭的這個狀況已經越來越少了如果說我們沒有辦法保證我們頂客族跟單身族他們的財產自主權我會覺得很可惜 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].start |
25869.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].end |
25877.609 |
| transcript.whisperx[571].text |
剛剛院長有提到說要去廣納各界討論是否能夠行政院說至少給予一個明確的承諾跟修法時程呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].start |
25879.388 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].end |
25906.785 |
| transcript.whisperx[572].text |
如果我沒有記錯民法應該是民國18年源自於民國18年開始到現在當中並沒有大幅度的修改只有微微的一些部分的修改這種大觀念的轉變是比較缺乏的當然我們必須迎合現在國際跟國家的情勢那我們可以跟外界來做一些談討到底民法要不要朝向一個大規模的觀念的改變這樣變革來做修正這個因為知識體大牽動的蠻多的我跟委員承諾我們就是來 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].start |
25907.685 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].end |
25921.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[573].text |
做這樣的徵詢 做這樣的討論可以開始但時程我到底不敢說因為各方的意見一定會很多我會期待說至少我們這一屆開始有個起頭今天我在這個總諮詢的機會蠻難得的機會可以跟全國的民眾講說現在我們遇到超高齡社會而財產自主權尤其是遺族的自主權這件事情其實應該把它列上時程 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].start |
25931.286 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].end |
25958.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[574].text |
像這樣的狀況其實已經在很多都會區已經正在發生當中那與其說一天到晚有像這方面的爭執倒不如說行政院我們現在整個政府針對這個法制可以把它完善可以把它再進化這件事拿出來做出一個討論是不是請陶部能夠內部先做一家法律界的討論我想我們再做一個專家學者的一個意見好 那如果可以的話我們想再做一個配合現在實際上的需要我想這個一直注意跟那個兄弟姊妹的既成權這個權衡一個問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].start |
25959.622 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].end |
25976.269 |
| transcript.whisperx[575].text |
那這部分我們再來這方面如果有任何資訊麻煩跟我們辦公室也讓我們辦公室知道進度好嗎這部分我們再做我們要提書面給那個委員好嗎好的再來請的是我們的環境部彭部長謝謝曾部長歡迎環境部長備詢委員好好 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].start |
25988.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].end |
26012.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[576].text |
院長 部長本席是基隆市唯一的議區區域立委因此我要向院長 部長提出最嚴肅的控訴基隆市天外天焚化爐的非灰處理爭議已經不是一個地方個案而是整個中央政府在環境政策財政夥伴關係跟市長監管上面一連串所謂系統性失靈的國家級危機 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].start |
26014.495 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].end |
26042.555 |
| transcript.whisperx[577].text |
西國郎市長為了讓佔用多年的土地能夠富裕成為還給市民的公園所以為了讓基隆的廢棄物處理能夠從傳統的掩埋而升級到更環保能夠更資源化的水洗再利用技術他做出決策中意的充滿爭議的就合約然而我們的地方政府在第一線力求改變力求環保轉型在衝鋒陷陣的時候我們後面中央部會做了些什麼呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].start |
26044.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].end |
26052.603 |
| transcript.whisperx[578].text |
撤銷了補助 做事的壟斷 懲罰了革新環境部一紙公文就把原本承諾的1.8億元的水洗設施經費一筆勾銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].start |
26056.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].end |
26079.423 |
| transcript.whisperx[579].text |
院長這不是中央請客地方買單嚴格講起來這應該叫中央許願地方活埋今年少了這1.8億的補助會讓基隆未來每年都必須為非灰處理額外燒掉超過3億元的預算這3億元本來可以拿來幹嘛改善基隆的交通可以來投資孩子的教育可以照顧我們的長者 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].start |
26080.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].end |
26099.72 |
| transcript.whisperx[580].text |
但是因為現在中央部會的政策髮夾彎被市場的壟斷機制給無情的吞噬所以本席今天要求必須正視這場危機後面中央的三大不可迴避的責任第一個我想請問為什麼要去懲罰追求環保轉型的地方政府 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].start |
26100.854 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].end |
26122.272 |
| transcript.whisperx[581].text |
根據資料過去舊合約地方政府掩埋非灰處理費每公噸只需1400元但是地方政府力求革新終止就業後新的標換得價卻一路飆漲到每公噸25000元足足暴漲近18倍這筆費用讓每年基隆市每年必須額外支出超過3億元 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].start |
26123.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].end |
26147.308 |
| transcript.whisperx[582].text |
金融市之所以願意負擔這個短期的陣痛是因為我們有更長期的環保願景我們要推動最先進的水洗非灰再利用技術讓非灰無害化資源化而根據專業評估水洗技術落實之後每年的處理費就可以大幅度降低從3億降低到1億然而就是在今年 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].start |
26148.382 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].end |
26161.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[583].text |
基隆最需要中央支援的時候支持的關鍵時刻我們收到一紙公文環境部的一紙公文明白告知原承諾補助經費總84%約1.8億元的灰飛水洗設施經費確定撤銷 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].start |
26168.973 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].end |
26184.927 |
| transcript.whisperx[584].text |
我在這邊就正式詢問我們卓院長跟彭部長當環境部大力倡導所謂資源循環零廢棄但是為什麼在基隆決心要投入先進水洗技術的關鍵時刻釜底抽薪撤回這筆攸關成敗的1.8億補助呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].start |
26189.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].end |
26218.17 |
| transcript.whisperx[585].text |
院長 如果一個地方政府為了響應中央的環保政策而去改革換來卻是中央用撤銷補助的方式來懲罰這是不是告訴全國所有縣市首長誰想改革 誰有可能就會倒大霉行政院是否認同這種懲罰式的財政措施呢是否該建立一個跨部會的協調機制來確保未來中央對地方的重大補助承諾不會再因單一部會的政策髮夾彎而輕易掉票呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].start |
26219.457 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].end |
26248.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[586].text |
首先這並非一個懲罰我想中央地方權限要有明確的劃分是地方自治精神所應該落實的過去中央做了很多著於補助那是在中央有財政能力的情況底下未來中央地方如果財政像現在所行的財政收支劃分法中央財政能力大幅縮減的情況底下就必須跟地方來研討所謂的中央地方權限的劃分 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].start |
26248.587 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].end |
26272.058 |
| transcript.whisperx[587].text |
那這個權限發分必須要很精準請部長能再說明這個個案到底是什麼原因報告委員 那個是明年的預計的計畫那今年其實送進來我們也並沒有說審核通過那因為我們今年財化法過後我們明年的補助給地方的預算基本上大概全部加起來只剩下六百萬能夠還額外再補助所以這個就沒有辦法再補助 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].start |
26272.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].end |
26292.643 |
| transcript.whisperx[588].text |
我們也希望未來因為基隆的財務也有大幅顯著的提升事實上垃圾的處理還是屬於地方的事務按照原來的規則但是未來如果我們可以爭取到相關的預算當然我們很了解基隆的用心但是因為真的明年的財化法過後我們環境部可以給地方的預算真的是大幅度的一個刪減 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].start |
26293.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].end |
26312.243 |
| transcript.whisperx[589].text |
所以說傳信部撤銷這1.8億的決策依據就是因為財化法然後對於哪一條行政命令哪一條法律或是哪一次專家會議都沒有就是因為財化法報告委員其實因為我們每年就是因為財化法現在審的是現在你們送進來我們要審核的是明年的預算 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].start |
26313.043 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].end |
26334.618 |
| transcript.whisperx[590].text |
本身就有一定的一個程序它本身也並沒有合可 正式的合可過所以我們明年的預算因為大幅度的給地方的補助款一般性補助款也明顯的一個減少所以基本上它的優勝順序相對的就沒有辦法再補助所以這一筆1.8億的資金缺口將迫使基隆會長期被鎖定在每公噸25000元的天價處理費上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].start |
26337.02 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].end |
26363.307 |
| transcript.whisperx[591].text |
那中央就是打算讓基隆市民用自己的血汗錢去填補中央政策所畫出來的大大洞行政院對於中央跟地方在重大環保基礎上面的財政夥伴關係上面承諾就是這樣委員您大概忽略了如果照新的財劃法明年基隆市政府財源應該是有所增加的他不應該為了這1.8億就付不出來或是1.8億沒有中央的補助他就會有困難中央已經被拿掉4165億 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].start |
26365.666 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].end |
26392.542 |
| transcript.whisperx[592].text |
那基隆會因為1.8億就出發生財政困難嗎不會 所以可以查一下明年基隆市明年度比114年增加73億原本114年是5.8億但是115年是到131億增加了73億財政部莊部長不好意思我還沒有請財政部上來那我只是說如果真的要扯的話那您知道說今年的一般性補助款 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].start |
26394.384 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].end |
26421.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[593].text |
從89億基隆被砍到剩下9億嗎您知道今年的計劃型補助款基隆從53億被砍到23億嗎今年沒有計劃型補助款稅務上面我是在事務會議的時候看到的所以變成是說沒錯基隆多加73億你說的應該是明年對 明年我們基隆多加73億的統籌分配款但是實質上我們的一般性補助款被砍了將近80億這個就是水平分配不公平 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].start |
26422.037 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].end |
26448.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[594].text |
所以變成說基隆還是短小37億我們今天講這1.8億是最重要是37億裡面可能最重要的一塊之一因為今年花這1.8億之後未來每年基隆就可以少花3億這是為什麼今天在這個地方這麼重要全國的議題上面我特地把這1.8億拿出來講1.8億在全國的預算裡面是個鳳毛麟角但是為什麼特地拿出來講因為這是有關後代的事情 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].start |
26449.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].end |
26459.051 |
| transcript.whisperx[595].text |
不好意思我還其實質詢這個是三個地方只是基隆的財政而已還有再來是有關奇怪請問財政部長對不起請回座 謝謝再來 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].start |
26464.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].end |
26491.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[596].text |
請問為何做事市場壟斷跟惡勢的污染風險呢院長這場爭議也體現了我們國家廢棄物管理體系的兩大結構破口第一個是市場壟斷第二個是監管失靈如果在基隆的舊有的在地廠商退場之後全國的非灰處理市場高度集中單一集團幾乎掌握了全國將近九成的合約當一個攸關民生的官信事業其實處理價格在缺乏競爭下可以暴增 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].start |
26492.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].end |
26512.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[597].text |
18倍本席認為這個已經不是所謂的市場機制而是很明顯的市場失靈所以也要請問院長行政院的公平交易委員會環境部對於這樣子明顯的市場集中度跟不合理的價格飆漲有沒有啟動所謂市場壟斷或不當的聯合新聞的專案調查 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].start |
26512.959 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].end |
26537.066 |
| transcript.whisperx[598].text |
包委員其實第一個是要源頭減量啦那其實像彰化也遇到類似的問題他們努力的源頭減量垃圾就少了大概三成那當然後面的這個非灰就顯著的一個減少那他們另外開發了額外儲存非灰的一個地方他們自己就有辦法來做解決那我相信基隆如果很努力想辦法的話也應該也可以做得到所以都是我們基隆的問題 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].start |
26538.574 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].end |
26562.904 |
| transcript.whisperx[599].text |
對 其實這個就是需要大家自己努力解決因為大家後端的處理是很貴的源頭減量這是最重要的另外一個是最後的如果真的沒有辦法源頭減量還是有一點非灰的話原有的等於是掩埋場或許可以把它活化來處理順便就請問一下彭部長您大力推動所謂資源化想請問有關非灰水洗這類高風險技術中央的風險控管在哪裡 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].start |
26564 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].end |
26591.893 |
| transcript.whisperx[600].text |
基本上現在如果有些非灰他可以最後的再利用再處理其實有些縣市他們很努力能夠來做顯著的去化例如說像宜蘭宜蘭他把整個焚化爐他附近的場域做完整的全循環的處理我想請問一下環境部預計什麼時候可以提出所謂具體的排放標準草案排放標準針對水洗灰飛的劇毒廢水環境部預計什麼時候可以提出提出比較具體的排放標準草案 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].start |
26592.772 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].end |
26611.161 |
| transcript.whisperx[601].text |
這個我們現在已經有了環管署它已經有相關性的標準草案出來了但是這個其實是一個新的技術但是我們期待因為非灰水洗它還是把它變成稀釋掉到地下水道的處理而已但是最重要的是說源頭的減量能夠讓非灰減少這是最主要的一個開始執行了嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].start |
26612.334 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].end |
26640.895 |
| transcript.whisperx[602].text |
有些縣市 委員你可以到宜蘭去看看有些縣市遇到這個問題他把它做成全循環我還沒有完全執行之前在現在或即將運轉的相關設施中央是否有立即生效的行政指導或監測要求如果沒有的話一旦發生污染請問責任是在中央還是在地方基本上現在那個有一定的標準而且他這個最後處理是在你們的這個污水處理的管線的末端那個就會做處理了 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].start |
26642.617 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].end |
26669.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[603].text |
所以其實我這邊還是要重新再講一次其實這件事 院長1.8億其實對於行政院對於整個中華民國政府是很少的一筆錢但是我這邊要請院長來去責成環境部恢復基隆市對於天外天水洗灰飛設施的1.8億承諾補助讓地方政府可以擺脫未來每年3億元的財務噩夢順利完成得來不易的環保轉型 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].start |
26671.125 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].end |
26695.57 |
| transcript.whisperx[604].text |
我還是認為應該依照中央地方權限來劃分否則財政收支方法4165億那每個縣市像委員這樣子1.8億2億這叫驚吞蠶食啊又要驚吞又要蠶食 中央受不了啊以後你看花蓮一條溪也要中央去處理你這個垃圾也要中央去處理但錢從中央一起搬走中央怎麼處理呢不能這樣驚吞蠶食 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].start |
26696.59 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].end |
26721.782 |
| transcript.whisperx[605].text |
我們沒有提到花蓮我今天也不是在提花蓮我們如果今天只是為了要打口水戰的話我們今天不用特地去提的我是告訴你別的縣市也有這樣的要求所以不能大的拿走了小的又要中央來補助院長如果今天您是在我這位子上你一定會很生氣我不會去通過這樣的裁劃法你一定會很生氣因為你想幫地方做事但是不會通過這樣的裁劃法除非我不想執政 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].start |
26724.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].end |
26743.419 |
| transcript.whisperx[606].text |
我還是再回到比較全國面的請彭部長針對水洗灰飛跟劇毒的二次風險的污染然後還是要香港法規要全國的法規要趕快訂出來而且難的話要請院長這邊建立所謂跨部會的聯防機制確保新的技術的推動不會犧牲環境的代價 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].start |
26744.932 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].end |
26763.022 |
| transcript.whisperx[607].text |
包委員其實有些縣市他們處理就很好我也有機會的話委員我帶你到宜蘭看一看好幾個縣市他們處理這個垃圾問題是真的自給自製做得很不錯那我也期待基隆還有很多的縣市因為垃圾處理就是地方的事務他們必須挑起來不是所有都是賴在我們身上來處理的 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].start |
26765.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].end |
26787.433 |
| transcript.whisperx[608].text |
我也期待說基本上來講如果有關環境污染的事情不是只有一個縣市一個縣市處理垃圾不是應該一個縣市一個縣市事情處理垃圾國家也是有責任的這個我同意委員全國的垃圾處理的政策中央要有一套但除了執行有的地方來執行但政策我們會來研修院長我是說法規上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].start |
26787.873 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].end |
26810.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[609].text |
法規上面如果你訂得不清楚那你只是一天到晚講選擇選擇選擇其實這不是我們今天站在這邊的原因今天站在國會殿堂就是處理全國的事務如果沒有一個完整的法規沒有好好的配奧措施的話再好的事情再利益良善的政策都會出問題的法規當然要一致 政策也要一致我們會從這裡來協助大家 謝謝謝謝彭部長 未來我還會請向你辦公室請你過來跟我們聊聊 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].start |
26817.133 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].end |
26821.061 |
| transcript.whisperx[610].text |
再來我想請交通部部長麻煩請交通部長備選時間不多了 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].start |
26833.137 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].end |
26861.45 |
| transcript.whisperx[611].text |
OK 部長我在這個電動公車之前我們基隆今天發生一個滿不幸的事情還好沒有人 目前我知道是無人傷亡不過忽然20台車20台小客車在通勤的時候他們的輪胎都在62號C上面全部被劃破那現在能不能跟我們講說現在目前交通部公路局的處置方式是什麼呢目前都已經修復完畢了今天早上發生之後很快速的公路局就已經去現場修復完畢那有受到影響是25輛車 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].start |
26862.97 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].end |
26890.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[612].text |
二十五輛車那未來他們的賠償是否這邊公路局是可以跟他們我請公路局他們來研議一下好 因為對於他們這二十五台車來講可能對我們現在是個小事情不過這件事情對通勤族來講會是個噩夢同時之間我也要建起我們交通部針對所有橋樑的尖峰畢竟來講現在極端氣候忽冷忽熱的這個整個工程面來講會對於是很大的一個整個工程面跟工程的建築是一個很大的挑戰 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].start |
26891.34 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].end |
26912.214 |
| transcript.whisperx[613].text |
再來我想跟部長跟院長再談一下有關大眾運輸尤其是有關基隆市的電動公車基本上來講我必須在這邊對於行政院交通部給予高度的肯定因為我們基隆市的電動公車我們基隆市的公車已經三四十年沒有換了甚至我們基隆市的公車已經是全國算有名之一 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].start |
26912.714 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].end |
26939.995 |
| transcript.whisperx[614].text |
但是因為交通部過去這一年來我們不管是本席在立法院有極力爭取還是說我們交通部部長也很願意育成此案所以針對電動公車把基隆市變成所謂無碳運具的模範公司這件事情來講我們相對有些比較長足的成長基本上來講本席在這邊代表我們基隆通行組跟我們部長跟我們院長說聲謝謝不過我在這邊也要提到就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].start |
26941.212 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].end |
26957.887 |
| transcript.whisperx[615].text |
其實我們電動公車就只有一家廠商嗎我們電動公車的交車廠商就只有一家嗎目前應該有五家目前我們知道他們因為如果有五家的話那他們現在交車的速度好像比預期落後很多每一間的進度跟速度不太一樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].start |
26958.127 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].end |
26973.921 |
| transcript.whisperx[616].text |
因為我知道說有幾家客運業者他們其實在做電動公車要汰換因為電動公車這件事情要2030全面無碳的大眾運輸工具的話那這件事來講電動公車要去上路第一個車子要有 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].start |
26974.181 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].end |
26998.385 |
| transcript.whisperx[617].text |
第二個充電樁要有可是相對比較起來本來應該今年5月份都完全交車那變成是到今年9月份來才能交車那如果說是還沒有交車的像到明年可能才開始交車的可能會延後更久那我們也很清楚知道說成本上面的考量原物料現在越來越貴那我們針對電動公車的補助反而是越來越少這點我本席是會滿擔心的請問部長跟院長未來針對這個案子對於車子的案子上面 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].start |
27003.567 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].end |
27022.906 |
| transcript.whisperx[618].text |
有什麼想法既然現在我們有五家的公車所以讓大家來選擇我們希望業者能夠自己提升自己的品質 效率跟服務這個部分請部長來做說我想因為行政院非常的支持所以對於公車的電動化跟無碳化的這個部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].start |
27023.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].end |
27051.535 |
| transcript.whisperx[619].text |
我們持續在推進當中但2030年之前我們希望能夠完全落實完全的電動化基隆市政府其實當時在今年度也有申請了93輛車子目前基隆市政府自己核定了70輛剩下的23輛其實我們會幫他保留著這個部分預算已經有匡列等他後續的年度如果他核定了這個部分我們還是會繼續來協助我們希望達到2030年完全的電動化 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].start |
27052.654 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].end |
27075.503 |
| transcript.whisperx[620].text |
好 那有另外一件事情有另外一個案子就是我剛剛講到車子之外你有馬 沒有給馬吃的糧基本上馬也跑不快 也跑不痛那我記得沒有錯的話 今年的當初在屋的時候一個電動公車的充電樁好像是三千萬可是後來好像今年我看到最新的報價是八千萬 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].start |
27076.403 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].end |
27105.435 |
| transcript.whisperx[621].text |
那中間這個我記得基隆市至少要8個充電樁那這個案子現在來講的話能不能就是說這個案子我會覺得是說如果我們真的想要在本來計畫是2年到3年之內基隆全部的100多台的老舊公車下雨還會漏水的老舊公車可以換成全新的電動公車那因為尤其在基隆會特別顯著因為基隆地方小那基隆的公車搭乘量是全台灣第二高那這一點會讓人民很有感 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].start |
27105.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].end |
27128.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[622].text |
這不只是說會是基隆市的政績也會是行政院的政績畢竟來講一個高低起伏很大的一個山區城市如果能夠成功的變成一個無碳運具的模範城市對於所有對於中華民國政府不管地方還是中央都是很大的一個鼓舞那可是現在如果卡到說有馬沒有糧那不是很可惜嗎部長還有糧嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].start |
27131.134 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].end |
27159.275 |
| transcript.whisperx[623].text |
這個補助的部分我們還是持續那當然物價一直在調漲我們在討論看看有沒有可能針對補助的部分去做討論但另外一個層面是我們讓這個電動裝使用的更有效率也就是說用AI的分析讓他一個電動裝可以充更多的車子這個部分我們也在努力研究當中不是說一台車就要配一個電動裝我們希望一個電動裝可以充的這個車子更多那我們需要設置的電動裝就可以更少這個部分我們也在研議當中 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].start |
27160.476 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].end |
27181.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[624].text |
在研究當中我期待交通部未來對於基隆市電動公司的價碼謝謝謝謝委員謝謝林佩祥委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長備詢 謝謝接下來我們要休息十分鐘之後請黃秀芳委員準備質詢特別謝謝謝龍介委員陪同我們一起參與今天的市政總質詢我們現在休息 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].start |
27832.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].end |
27839.083 |
| transcript.whisperx[625].text |
黃議會我們繼續開會接下來請黃秀芳委員質詢徐欣怡委員請準備 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].start |
27862.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].end |
27863.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[626].text |
謝謝院長謝謝院長我們請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].start |
27883.107 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].end |
27907.347 |
| transcript.whisperx[627].text |
黃委員好主任長好主任長最近我們的社會很多輿論都是在討論國產車過去的政策保護國產車造成我們覺得說國產車在這方面都一直沒有在進步這個相關的討論非常多我今天想要從另外一個角度來討論就是我們的政策對於國產車的影響 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].start |
27910.81 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].end |
27931.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[628].text |
我記得在2023年彰化的竹塘鄉就是竹塘鄉的鄉立幼兒園娃娃車載了十幾名的幼兒因為轎車跟娃娃車碰撞造成15人受傷其中有兩名兒童造成頭骨骨折 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].start |
27932.126 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].end |
27960.692 |
| transcript.whisperx[629].text |
顏面撕裂傷這個傷勢非常的嚴重那這一起事件也後續就是讓這個運安會進行調查那在今年五月份的時候這個調查報告已經出爐那運安會針對這個報告當中他有特別提到就是說希望交通部能夠參考國際間針對幼童專用車最新的安全法規還有實務的做法 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].start |
27961.152 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].end |
27986.658 |
| transcript.whisperx[630].text |
去研議我國幼童專用車安全性提升目標那我想請教就是說公路局在這個到2024年它有針對這個國內使用的兒童這個幼童的專用車的數量總共有3515輛那其中99%的幼童專用車全部都是同一款就是得利卡 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].start |
27987.378 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].end |
28005.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[631].text |
那這款車它是1986年就是說40年前設計的這個車型那這個車款是在2019年9月份它有改款在改款前這款車是完全沒有安全氣囊也沒有ESP等基本安全裝置 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].start |
28007.215 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].end |
28016.48 |
| transcript.whisperx[632].text |
目前這樣子沒有安全氣囊沒有ESP基本的安全裝置的目前還有超過2000輛就是還有2000輛在當幼兒的專用車 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].start |
28023.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].end |
28040.985 |
| transcript.whisperx[633].text |
這個類似的商用箱型車款在上週就是台灣的TNCAP它發表了今年第三季的撞擊測試報告台灣首次出現國產箱型車款的撞擊測試數據結果是取得很難看的零顆星 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].start |
28041.986 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].end |
28056.706 |
| transcript.whisperx[634].text |
所以我在這邊就是要提醒就是說台灣幼童專用車的安全問題其實國人一直會覺得說我們這個幼童專用車不論是在它的車體的結構或者是它的設備設置 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].start |
28058.889 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].end |
28083.479 |
| transcript.whisperx[635].text |
其實會覺得缺乏對幼童或者是隨車人員的一個保護所以我在這邊是不是可以請教這個院長跟部長就是說這個兩年前發生的這個幼童專用車重大事故那運安會也有提出改進的意見那交通部乃至我們的行政院到底做怎樣的一個改進的措施 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].start |
28085.742 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].end |
28102.219 |
| transcript.whisperx[636].text |
報告委員我們其實公路局也一直在研議也跟車商正在討論還有哪些安全的設置跟設備可以加進來TNCAP的部分是這樣子因為國內目前針對TNCAP的撞擊測試撞擊測試目前只有針對 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].start |
28105.963 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].end |
28123.533 |
| transcript.whisperx[637].text |
教士也就是轎車或者是休旅車的這個模式這兩種小客車有做這個撞擊的測試那它的標準也會比較精準但是用箱型車來測的話裡面會有八項標準是無法測試因為它那個高度不同座椅的高度不同 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].start |
28124.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].end |
28150.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[638].text |
不過這個也不代表說我們都沒有做安全的測試現在目前我們所看到這個得利卡要出場之前我們其實有40項的安全檢測包含它的煞車包含它的穩定度包含它的整體的車燈系統或者是說座椅的系統等等我們有40項的檢查項目我們40項檢查項目過了之後才可以出場就像委員剛剛所提到的 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].start |
28150.812 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].end |
28165.167 |
| transcript.whisperx[639].text |
我們過去其實有一次的改版改版之後其實更安全現在我們希望他能夠再往更安全再前進所以我們目前跟中華德利卡的公司正在研議看要怎麼樣讓他再增加一些設備這是第一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].start |
28165.828 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].end |
28190.822 |
| transcript.whisperx[640].text |
那第二點委員您在關心的這個也很有道理TN CAP的這個撞擊測試的部分我們也正在研析當中看有沒有可能我們也做這個撞擊的測試看要怎麼做才做的準目前以台灣目前的撞擊測試的狀況我們要撞這個車是不會太準的會有一些疏漏那我們正在研析看要怎麼讓他更精準那這個部分我會朝這個方向向委員所建議的方向來推動 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].start |
28192.363 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].end |
28213.681 |
| transcript.whisperx[641].text |
謝謝部長我現在要提的就是說在整個我們的環境當中總共有99%的娃娃車都是用德利卡這個車款這個車款它的設計是40年的設計當然部長有講就是說有一些2019年改款之後可能就更加的安全 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].start |
28215.202 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].end |
28241.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[642].text |
我要提的就是說我們也希望每天我們家裡面的寶貝坐娃娃車到幼兒園這個車是安全的既然運安會有提出這樣的一個建議當然我們也希望交通部針對這一部分就是說我們這些幼兒的專用車是不是可以透過TN-CAP碰撞的測試 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].start |
28243.07 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].end |
28266.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[643].text |
結果出來之後也讓家長現在大家會覺得說那這個車到底安全不安全啊那如果透過這樣的一個測試公諸於世那我覺得說可以讓更多人更多的家長可以更安心嘛我覺得這樣子不然我覺得大家的疑問疑慮都是存在那邊另外就是說我要請教就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].start |
28269.379 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].end |
28274.081 |
| transcript.whisperx[644].text |
因為教育部他的政策就是說補助幼兒專用車這樣的一個政策導致目前99%的幼兒專用車全部都是同一個車款 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].start |
28287.288 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].end |
28300.727 |
| transcript.whisperx[645].text |
都是同一個車款所以我覺得說我們交通部或教育部是不是針對這部分也要去做一個檢討為什麼會全部都是用這個車款很多人會質疑這個車輛的安全性 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].start |
28304.532 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].end |
28328.79 |
| transcript.whisperx[646].text |
所以我是不是可以請交易部跟交通部針對這一部分這個車款是不是可以納入我們TN-CAP的碰撞的測試或者是未來我們的政策我們補助全台灣的幼童專用車的補助的政策是不是也要再去做一個改進或者是可能要做一些修正 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].start |
28329.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].end |
28346.31 |
| transcript.whisperx[647].text |
是不是可以請部長謝謝委員關心幼兒的這個坐車上的一個安全我想委員所提到的是非常有價值的我們過去在對這個車輛的一個安全本來就是對幼兒權益的一個跟安全的一個保護這是 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].start |
28347.935 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].end |
28358.146 |
| transcript.whisperx[648].text |
無庸置疑但是汽車所採購的這些車型他在安全係數上怎麼樣能夠強化我想這我們來研議我們內部來檢討來改善 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].start |
28360.39 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].end |
28385.302 |
| transcript.whisperx[649].text |
部長 我們當時會補助幼兒專用車的補助政策其實是希望說這個娃娃車能夠十年內競速如果比較老舊可能就競速把它淘汰掉我們原本的用意是這樣子讓我們所有的孩子所有的幼童要到幼兒園的時候他的坐車是安全的我們原本的用意是這樣 對不對 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].start |
28387.023 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].end |
28406.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[650].text |
那會變成全部現在99%全部都是這個車款我不是說這個車款不好那當然這個車款它的碰撞測試因為這一次這個第三季的這個同款就是類似的同款的這個箱型車的碰撞 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].start |
28408.129 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].end |
28430.757 |
| transcript.whisperx[651].text |
這個是零顆星所以會讓我覺得說德麗卡的這樣的一個安全碰撞的安全它到底是不是安全的是不是可以再把它納入到我們未來TN-CAP的碰撞的測試當中另外就是說我們教育部補助的幼兒專用車的政策我覺得應該也要好好去做一個檢討 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].start |
28433.016 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].end |
28448.274 |
| transcript.whisperx[652].text |
謝謝委員提醒報告委員這個部分就照您所建議的我們目前TNCAP正在研議當中看要怎麼樣把這款車款可以拿來做有意義的碰撞測試這個我們正在研議當中那不過另外一方面是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].start |
28449.676 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].end |
28478.05 |
| transcript.whisperx[653].text |
坦白講大家9乘9都是用這台車子原因是說它的成本上是相對是低一些那如果要提高的話對幼兒園來講那又是一筆負擔那這個部分那我認為是要安全我覺得重點是在它安全當然就是說如果今天這輛車是安全的如果它也通過這樣的一個碰撞測試我覺得那個當然是沒問題以我們台灣目前的法規除了碰撞測試之外我們其實有很多的安全標準 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].start |
28479.09 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].end |
28496.355 |
| transcript.whisperx[654].text |
那這輛車其實都是符合的所以在路上其實這台車是安全的好 那如果關於這個運安會他有特別提到就是說針對這個缺乏車輛的法規缺乏對幼童及隨行隨車人員的一個保護那我覺得這個應該也要去好好的去討論 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].start |
28498.176 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].end |
28523.437 |
| transcript.whisperx[655].text |
就是說麻煩交通部跟教育部針對這個補助的政策還有我們所有目前在市面上或者是目前幼兒園使用的幼兒專用車的安全性我覺得應該也要好好去做一個檢討好的 謝謝院長 另外我想討論上禮拜發生了一個隨機殺人案件 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].start |
28525.75 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].end |
28542.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[656].text |
這個隨機殺人案件造成兩名國小的女童還有一位見義勇為的中年男子受傷我今天看到這個女童她已經原本在加護病房她現在已經一到普通病房來 帶我換一下我的這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].start |
28548.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].end |
28568.032 |
| transcript.whisperx[657].text |
其實我們會覺得說我們的政府應該要讓所有的民眾不能生活在這個恐懼當中讓所有的民眾安居樂業我覺得這個也是政府的一個職責所以我想請教院長針對這一部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].start |
28570.113 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].end |
28584.229 |
| transcript.whisperx[658].text |
我們看到就是說在事發的時候地方政府心理健康中心還有各管司他們都有透過電訪或家訪在9月份也有7次聯繫不到人 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].start |
28585.29 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].end |
28606.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[659].text |
會有這樣的一個空窗我想請教就是說要怎麼樣預防未來這樣的事情再發生我覺得衛福部應該針對這部分應該要有所檢討我是不是可以請教院長或部長針對這部分未來要怎麼再去把這個空窗再把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].start |
28607.185 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].end |
28631.998 |
| transcript.whisperx[660].text |
不能有這樣的一個空窗也不能有這樣的事情在發生所以我是不是可以請院長或部長來做一個回應等一下請部長答覆這件事情讓我們深刻的覺得所謂強化社會安全網還是有它的漏洞我們從110年到114年第一期強化社會安全網現在要進入到第二期了明年進入到第二期雖然我們在各種功能上面有持續的加強但是像這種剛出獄 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].start |
28633.659 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].end |
28652.608 |
| transcript.whisperx[661].text |
三月初一都馬上這個彰化的毒品防治中心又做了一些追蹤輔導的工作但還是讓他在有這個機會可以去放下這樣的案件所以這個社會安全法還繼續要強化那至於新的社會安全法怎麼強化以針對這個個案我們做如何的檢討請石部長來答覆 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].start |
28653.989 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].end |
28667.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[662].text |
跟委員報告的確我們現在在強化這個特別是在社會安全網各個環節的連結即將讓它無縫以我們拿這個個案再重新來檢討發現它其實是3月23號服刑期滿出獄因為過去這個個案本身有這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].start |
28674.276 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].end |
28702.956 |
| transcript.whisperx[663].text |
使用毒品的記錄 安非大命跟海洛因所以就由毒房中心來接案所以它的分類上就是由毒房中心接案苗栗的毒房中心所以我們是在28號入案的所以這個中間大概是5天的落差然後之後就有定期的追蹤那麼追蹤期間當然也有實施的contact跟家訪不過有幾次確實聯絡上沒有順利的接觸到 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].start |
28703.396 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].end |
28719.068 |
| transcript.whisperx[664].text |
不過這中間6月跟7月也都有接受警方的這個尿液的驗毒毒品的部分是控制但是可能不只是只有毒品使用上的介質問題而已可能還要更 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].start |
28719.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].end |
28734.178 |
| transcript.whisperx[665].text |
關切到他的這個行為面的變化所以我們未來會再強化我希望這種事情不能再發生了而且我也要提醒院長跟部長針對這部分就是有漏洞我們要怎麼再去把它 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].start |
28735.619 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].end |
28753.527 |
| transcript.whisperx[666].text |
就把它補起來啦那另外就是說我今天看到就是說政治人物或者是公眾人物其實在這個我看到這個館長或者是民眾黨的黨主席既然館長可以在這個公開場合對於元首的這個安全做出這樣子 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].start |
28754.827 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].end |
28771.713 |
| transcript.whisperx[667].text |
我會覺得說公眾人物你講出來的話可能會引起社會某些人的一個仿效所以我在這邊也要嚴重的指責就是說公眾人物你的一言一行其實都是社會一些人的一個模仿 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].start |
28772.153 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].end |
28787.767 |
| transcript.whisperx[668].text |
的對象所以類似這樣子的狀況其實不是問題是元首或者一般的民眾身體或者是身心的安全都不容去忽視尤其像類似這樣的一個狀況如果是不對的話當然我們就是要 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].start |
28807.174 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].end |
28819.637 |
| transcript.whisperx[669].text |
好 謝謝黃秀芳委員的質詢謝謝卓院長各部會首長的備詢 謝謝接下來我們今天總質詢最後一位口頭質詢徐新穎委員請質詢 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].start |
28833.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].end |
28855.222 |
| transcript.whisperx[670].text |
謝謝韓院長本席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢許文豪院長好辛苦了一整天不會不會 謝謝今天本席有三十分鐘有一些有關 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].start |
28857.468 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].end |
28875.226 |
| transcript.whisperx[671].text |
整個政府就中央的整個對國家的治理的有些問題本席想特別提出來尤其是賴總統就職以來賴卓體制也已經有一年半的時間了本席首先想請教院長就是說 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].start |
28876.067 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].end |
28892.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[672].text |
一個國家的治理或是企業的管理我們對於所有的這個要實施的政策或是我們要落實執行的不外乎是時間效益成本都要兼顧您認同嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].start |
28894.628 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].end |
28910.717 |
| transcript.whisperx[673].text |
是 就管理上需要這樣來執行等於說包含我們花了很多的預算 很多的錢應該會在意它的效益嘛 對不對是嘛所以本席首先要先來請教就是說我們現在面對美國關稅的衝擊 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].start |
28913.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].end |
28923.507 |
| transcript.whisperx[674].text |
那我們有在這個特別預算有特別編列了780億對不對要來這個就支持產業然後150億要這個安定就業那有關支持產業的本席從 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].start |
28931.614 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].end |
28954.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[675].text |
我們川普開始有關稅的這樣的一個變化政策變化以來我們就一直在問請問受關稅衝擊的行業清單我們政府現在到底有沒有我們在當初四月之前我們就一直做低推估 中推估 高推估各個影響的層面都有推估出來那目前我們認為像這個 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].start |
28957.41 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].end |
28981.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[676].text |
手工具機還有一些交通的零組件你們的行業清單有沒有現在整個我們中央政府有掌握主要因為二產業項目高科技產業因為沒有在對的關稅裡面所以大部分是傳統產業傳統產業也有分就是說如果我們的對手剛好是遇到日本跟韓國會比較辛苦 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].start |
28982.368 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].end |
29004.941 |
| transcript.whisperx[677].text |
所以本席先但是跟委員報告如果我們的對手剛好是中國的話那就比較不會還有一些競爭力但是也一樣要面對關稅的支付所以他跟他客戶之間怎麼樣去做拆帳所以已經有一些清單在手上我們要補助協助的 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].start |
29005.942 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].end |
29028.781 |
| transcript.whisperx[678].text |
我們也做了很多的座談會本席想請教我們這些清單有那麼多的產業那麼多的廠商你的標準你大概有哪些標準出口佔比是一個因素嗎只要它可以證明它有直接或間接出口美國然後它的業績衰退10% |
| transcript.whisperx[679].start |
29031.078 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].end |
29058.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[679].text |
這些是你們的一個標準 對毛利跌幅有沒有考慮那個都不需要 不需要你只要有關稅傳導率有沒有有沒有需要考慮你只要有確認就是說你是有蘇美的時機或間接也可以你是透過代理商出口那你只要你的實際的業績衰退了10%就可以就可以來申請申請了以後協助這些廠商怎麼樣 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].start |
29059.318 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].end |
29086.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[680].text |
他有分比如說金融的協助本來在這個情況之下你就可以新的貸款我們有信保來支持你還有利息的減免會公開清單跟標準當然標準您剛剛有講一些整個的清單會公佈嗎事實上是所有的製造業你只要符合了10%的衰退基本上都可以來申請只要來申請你們就給他過 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].start |
29089.189 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].end |
29092.89 |
| transcript.whisperx[681].text |
我們會有公開的廠商名單跟金額嗎我們可以看得到嗎因為廠商他申請這個他不一定希望人家知道 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].start |
29109.928 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].end |
29120.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[682].text |
那再來我們對於一些這個支持就業我們也有安排了對於一些可能關閉的廠商他們是不是對他們的員工開課 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].start |
29122.264 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].end |
29147.965 |
| transcript.whisperx[683].text |
他現在是主要是這個所謂的應該不叫無薪假減班休息有一些補貼之外還有一些訓練課程再充電計畫跟委員說明我們其實現在有這個給勞工的再充電機會就是減班休息的勞工那他如果參與再充電的計畫我們不只那個課程是免費的甚至我們會給他餐訓津貼每個小時190塊 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].start |
29150.367 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].end |
29167.283 |
| transcript.whisperx[684].text |
你這課程誰來開課企業可以開我們地方的分屬可以開都可以甚至地方政府也可以開現在重點就是我們大家在想你企業來開那如果他本身就是可能要關閉的他可能要外移的廠商他來開課請問對我們的勞工有幫助嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].start |
29171.342 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].end |
29186.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[685].text |
你這個開課的KPI或者是你的標準在哪裡其實有很多的企業他只是暫時性的現在接單比較有挑戰其實他一段時間以後他是會恢復而且可能還是會未來的訂單還是很有機會的 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].start |
29187.069 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].end |
29203.891 |
| transcript.whisperx[686].text |
所以他可以趁這個時間他可以對他內部的員工來辦訓所以企業如果他們要開課的話我們也會補助這個企業來辦訓企業會得到我們的補貼那參訓的勞工我們也會給他參訓津貼每個小時190塊都會有我們都會支持他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].start |
29204.352 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].end |
29226.184 |
| transcript.whisperx[687].text |
所以本席的問題是對有可能他只是暫時那如果他未來是要等於說可能會關閉的你怎麼辦你這些人他原本就是這個行業你又給他上這個行業的課你沒有幫助他轉型啊我們也有地方分署也有開課地方分署也有辦訊課地方分署他開課他是依據什麼來開課 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].start |
29228.493 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].end |
29254.415 |
| transcript.whisperx[688].text |
就是我們原本在勞動力發展署下各個分署就有相關的課程本來就可以來上而且可以是用線上的方式來上但是這個開課是不是能夠幫助他們轉型我們一再強調你這個錢下去150億你是打水漂這個半年用完就沒了還是他可以轉型是依照勞工的需求跟企業的需求來開課來辦訓 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].start |
29258.701 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].end |
29277.255 |
| transcript.whisperx[689].text |
依據他的需求那半年後半年後你有沒有一個檢視的指標因為他上完課然後呢請問他的留任率多少你們有沒有檢視以及他的到職率或是他的轉職率不用看還有這些勞工朋友們 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].start |
29281.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].end |
29308.806 |
| transcript.whisperx[690].text |
這些勞工現在減班休息並不是真的失業他現在其實還是受聘於那個企業他還在指所以您沒有聽懂您說的情況是其中一種但是所以現在我們的中央政府就是假設所有他都是暫時的那如果半年後整個關稅各方面的影響我們發現有一些產業他關閉活不下去那這些勞工呢 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].start |
29309.653 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].end |
29325.596 |
| transcript.whisperx[691].text |
跟委員說明我們現在還有提出一個是叫做勞工就業通的計畫這個計畫是針對如果真的在這段過程裡面真的不幸被解雇或失業的勞工我們來協助他轉職包括給他到時候才協助嗎沒有 現在我們已經發布了 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].start |
29326.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].end |
29342.611 |
| transcript.whisperx[692].text |
所以如果這個勞工現在真的因為關稅的因素而被解雇而失業的話我們現在在上週我們就已經發布了這個計畫可以用我們勞工就業通的計畫來協助他轉職對 OK 這個轉職你有沒有對接的政策產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].start |
29344.312 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].end |
29365.427 |
| transcript.whisperx[693].text |
我們當然比較希望優先可以協助他比方說轉往一些比較缺工的產業本席花了一些時間問這些問題主要我就是要跟這個卓院長來提醒就是我們的效益這個780億的支持產業跟這個對支持產業還有安定就業150億我們不希望 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].start |
29367.908 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].end |
29392.491 |
| transcript.whisperx[694].text |
將近一千億未來就是隨著時間過去錢只是砸下去撒了錢結果它的成效我們看不到所以我剛剛問了一下一起來監督這個工作學員對課程的整個滿意度還有我們在做這樣計畫的時候你沒有一個執行的一個績效考核或者是一個評估都完全沒有 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].start |
29392.771 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].end |
29418.371 |
| transcript.whisperx[695].text |
我們當然會來評估這個等到半年後再下一次的總諮詢甚至一年後才發現問題的時候這些錢都已經撒下去特別預算通過之後我們才會全面開始執行那些準備工作都做了對 準備工作的時候我們正式的規劃應該就有一個減班休息是希望他暫時維持在原來的工作地點只是減班休息我們給他再充電那麼如果真的發生了比較大的影響他必須要轉職的話 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].start |
29419.372 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].end |
29437.438 |
| transcript.whisperx[696].text |
他也推出了這種升級轉型的一個各種的補助都有所以是很多的面向同時在進行因為剛好我們經濟部長跟我們勞動部長都在我們的整個產業它是不是要跟整個勞工教育訓練的轉型整個要掛鉤在一起 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].start |
29438.299 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].end |
29450.132 |
| transcript.whisperx[697].text |
才可以所以現在我們整個的執行是有這樣他如果還沒有到這個減班休息的情況之下我們也有提供補助給企業對他的員工的訓練尤其是AI上的訓練 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].start |
29451.703 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].end |
29477.976 |
| transcript.whisperx[698].text |
他可以去上課而且上課以後我們也會檢定說他可不可以應用在百工百業就是他比如說工具機他可不可以真的導入到他的製程的過程當中剛剛工部長有特別講所以對於這些產業是有一些對接的政策性產業大概哪些產業您剛剛講AI產業工具機還有AI是導入所有的這些包括傳統性產業 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].start |
29479.336 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].end |
29501.431 |
| transcript.whisperx[699].text |
把AI導入 對還有你政策性產業還有哪些因為你整個你要去培訓他們轉職各方面你政策性產業現在主要因為對等關係的關係主要還是放在比較所謂的傳統性產業放在政策上的產業還有中小微這兩大部分 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].start |
29505.874 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].end |
29510.36 |
| transcript.whisperx[700].text |
中小什麼中小微企業還有這個所謂的傳統性產業現在主要是這兩塊因為他們對受到了對等關稅的影響比較大所以我們希望我們的這些納稅人的錢 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].start |
29522.737 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].end |
29543.602 |
| transcript.whisperx[701].text |
能夠真正用在我們現在不管我們的產業 我們的勞工我們不是只有止血我們可以幫他們造血然後在未來我們可以能夠面對整個國際的衝擊我們可以衝擊到 影響到能夠是最小的是 當然 謝謝那接著本席要接著再請教這個院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].start |
29545.304 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].end |
29567.251 |
| transcript.whisperx[702].text |
美方要求開放稻米零關稅的話這個會直接打擊我國糧食安全所以我們全國人民想要知道政府有沒有設定最低的保護底線稻米是否被列入非談判項目以及我們糧食的自給率政府有沒有訂定底線 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].start |
29568.547 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].end |
29584.235 |
| transcript.whisperx[703].text |
在我們談判的原則當中糧食安全跟國人健康是其中兩項重要的原則是政府院長率領我們的底線是什麼就是這兩項原則其他當然有糧食安全的底線是我們稻米我們 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].start |
29585.595 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].end |
29604.206 |
| transcript.whisperx[704].text |
等於是不是能夠列入非談判項目因為雙方談判雖然已經完成了諸多的技術性磋商但最後總結會議還沒有完成所以最後的協議還沒有達成在之前各有提出但是都沒有做任何實際上的承諾我們等待最後的承諾 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].start |
29605.246 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].end |
29630.387 |
| transcript.whisperx[705].text |
但是我相信院長您心裡大概有譜未來可能會怎麼樣因為在這過程零一體農業部長就站在旁邊他就知道他的責任有多重大在過程當中農業部一直是很重要的一個我們談判所要保護國人糧食安全跟國人健康的一個工作請問豆米算是戰備物資吧應該算吧我們最低存量應該是多少我們政府現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].start |
29631.648 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].end |
29655.639 |
| transcript.whisperx[706].text |
我跟委員報告就是依據我們現在的規定因為先回答我們我們稻米的最低存量我們依現在的規定是存三個月那就是30萬噸但是我們每一年大概有三個月內30萬噸對 但是我們現在每一年大概可以到120萬噸所以我們現在的稻米的糧食自給率是超過百分之百是 好 那 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].start |
29656.997 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].end |
29680.705 |
| transcript.whisperx[707].text |
我們在整個談判那什麼時候會提出對農產品入超衝擊的報告跟因應對策我跟委員報告就是說當我們在跟美國做相關的談判的過程中其實我們也對每一個產業做了相關的可能的衝擊分析但是相關的談判過程中因為還在執行還在談判過程中那最後的結果還不確定但是 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].start |
29681.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].end |
29697.393 |
| transcript.whisperx[708].text |
正如剛才院長講的就農業的角度來講確保糧食安全維持產業的穩定性跟我們農民的收入是我們最大的一個原則我們會捍衛這樣的一個用這樣的原則在跟美國一直是用這樣的原則跟美國在處理 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].start |
29697.833 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].end |
29725.164 |
| transcript.whisperx[709].text |
好 我們希望我們政府是準備好的因為講到農民本席也要再特別講就是說我們的一些農民他在耕作各種的農作物的時候常常有時候碰到盛產譬如說鳳梨香蕉盛產我們政府就來收購凍存補貼為什麼我們不從一種棄作品種以及 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].start |
29726.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].end |
29733.759 |
| transcript.whisperx[710].text |
總量管制整個的掌握來著手常常都是常常救急常常的就是去做這個補貼 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].start |
29736.405 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].end |
29764.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[711].text |
那這樣我們好幾種農產品常常發生這種事情現在農業部有沒有做整個總量管制的整個掌控我跟委員報告您講得非常對就是說我們都是小農都是小面積的所以我們現在就是在鼓勵相關的集團栽培然後做計畫性的生產然後特別是透過部分的農企業跟農民做契作這樣關係因為有契作的話你的目標就會非常穩定但我的問題是 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].start |
29765.786 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].end |
29786.389 |
| transcript.whisperx[712].text |
我們的生產常常脫序這個是政府的責任我們怎麼樣掌握不要常常有這種情況對 另外現在我們也在大概明年初就會去開始做公告就是我們現在的種植登記其實我們透過現在所有的申請其實我們已經掌握大概六成到八成的整個種植的對象現在陸續有掌握 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].start |
29786.929 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].end |
29809.426 |
| transcript.whisperx[713].text |
包括規劃跟你們的指導你們都可以來落實所以我們現在透過未來可能透過種植登記加上集團栽培加上企作去讓我們的農產品更有次序性的去做計劃性生產我們希望之後不要再看到農民在不知情的情況下整個又太過於量產跟盛產 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].start |
29810.447 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].end |
29836.187 |
| transcript.whisperx[714].text |
不過我要跟委員說明一下因為很多露天週五還是面對的氣候變遷這個極端天候的挑戰所以有時候因為天候的關係造成短時間之內的物價波動是不可避免的但是我們會增加這個沒關係有些動態性的我想農業部這裡能夠做好整個的預警還有協助輔導各方面我想這樣就很好 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].start |
29836.647 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].end |
29857.954 |
| transcript.whisperx[715].text |
是好不好好接著院長本席想接著來請教有關我們國家的兒童還有青少年的問題我想請教院長孩子們在教室裡有沒有權利呼吸新鮮乾淨的空氣他們有沒有權利 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].start |
29859.093 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].end |
29870.073 |
| transcript.whisperx[716].text |
任何一個人在任何地方都有權利應該要這樣那您有瞭解我們現在台灣的兒童青少年他們 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].start |
29871.147 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].end |
29889.689 |
| transcript.whisperx[717].text |
在呼吸新鮮空氣這一塊是沒有人在管他們的三不管地帶 您知道嗎對台灣整個空氣品質是每一天都隨時在監控的好 請問室內空氣品質管理法教育部有沒有列為主管單位院長我請教你 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].start |
29890.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].end |
29900.377 |
| transcript.whisperx[718].text |
有沒有我們是環境部環境不是主管單位什麼環境部那孩子的這個呼吸乾淨的空氣的這個權責在哪 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].start |
29902.823 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].end |
29926.042 |
| transcript.whisperx[719].text |
我們環境部目前 報告委員我們今年針對22個重點的工業區旁邊的學校我們開始進行監測就是22個是常常被抓的 排放特別多的我們會特別來保護兒童的空氣所以這就是問題了院長 本席請教你空屋治理難道不應該納入學校衛生法嗎 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].start |
29927.077 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].end |
29946.678 |
| transcript.whisperx[720].text |
空污治理不會只局限在學校一個單位裡面它一定是整個大環境我的意思說學校衛生法裡面要不要有空污治理這一塊學校它一個單位裡面不可能自己空氣好外面空氣不好也不可能外面空氣不好裡面只有學校是好所以整個是大環境剛剛部長講的你這樣但是你現在 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].start |
29949.605 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].end |
29958.819 |
| transcript.whisperx[721].text |
院長小孩子的肺還沒有發育完全那你那個空汙的標準跟成人一樣你現在沒有小孩子的 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].start |
29960.546 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].end |
29980.319 |
| transcript.whisperx[722].text |
所以你現在在學校附近的這個你說工業區怎麼樣那都是成人的標準那我問你小孩子誰來照顧誰來管誰來關心他們我們的孩子氣喘各方面呼吸系統的這個問題因為這個環境的變遷我想院長還有部長也清楚所以那現在孩子的這個怎麼辦 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].start |
29980.899 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].end |
29997.556 |
| transcript.whisperx[723].text |
我了解委員的重視但是這個空氣的品質怎麼監測安心數是怎麼樣委員你說的就是說我們現在空氣的標準AQI是以大人為主小孩目前是沒有那我們環境部呢但是尤其在校園校園的空氣品質的這種監控 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].start |
29998.783 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].end |
30015.594 |
| transcript.whisperx[724].text |
我想教育部長不會不關心吧我們孩子都在他一到五一天有八小時在學校特別是國小國中的孩子這一塊你現在是個漏洞 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].start |
30016.354 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].end |
30039.383 |
| transcript.whisperx[725].text |
本席要特別講韓國他們非常重視其實世界各國都很重視我特別舉韓國韓國的例子他們就是把空污防治寫進法律等於是他們由對各級學校他們把空氣污染的治理納入學校衛生法這就是因為為什麼本席要特別提出來 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].start |
30040.143 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].end |
30056.56 |
| transcript.whisperx[726].text |
他從法律層面建立了校園的空品監測以及改善的一個法理的基礎可是我們沒有好 我們的做法教育部長本希請你一定要還有這個卓院長要請你們知道我現在要講一個現象 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].start |
30057.645 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].end |
30074.693 |
| transcript.whisperx[727].text |
我們如果在學校突然發現空氣真的很有問題我們的做法是把戶外活動從課表裡面刪掉人家是把空污房子寫進法律 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].start |
30075.65 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].end |
30101.736 |
| transcript.whisperx[728].text |
所以現在有校園污染通報的防護措施韓國他們是有制度有預算有標準的在他們在保護孩童的肺我們的政府是在限制我們孩子的腿這是不一樣的做法我們現在有校園污染的防治措施現在中小學我們事實上以中山大學王家村PM2.5研究中心那是高校深耕特別 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].start |
30102.316 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].end |
30129.545 |
| transcript.whisperx[729].text |
支持的一個特殊領域研究中心帶著中小學在發展研究做PM2.5許多的這些學校校園空屋的空氣的監控包括許多教學上的一些協助我們也培養了非常多的一些種子老師我想在這一個部分你培養種子老師但是現在空屋的房子 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].start |
30130.285 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].end |
30145.115 |
| transcript.whisperx[730].text |
你教育部完全沒有在管我們的整個學校有通報系統那現在環境部他怎麼協助學校包委員我們有這個教育部環境部還有國科會還有經濟部一起合作我們四個部會針對兒少的呼吸權 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].start |
30145.855 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].end |
30158.829 |
| transcript.whisperx[731].text |
特別是我們體檢工業區還有增加通報機制還有室內的空氣品質的污染要跨部會整合我們的確跨部會在做可是本席剛剛提出來你看兒童他這個空污的標準到現在兒童沒有特別的啊 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].start |
30162.273 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].end |
30181.358 |
| transcript.whisperx[732].text |
有報委員第一個你說的韓國全國PM2.5平均是20我們台灣是12.8所以韓國的問題比我們嚴重很多我們當然可以再改進第二個我們現在是跨部會但是現在就是我們孩子的標準我們孩子的標準沒有人在關心你要有孩子的標準就是因為教育單位沒有權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].start |
30188.38 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].end |
30211.052 |
| transcript.whisperx[733].text |
現在納進去了 我想感謝委員提醒但是他確實是一個跨部會在合作的對兒童的一個身心的一個健康我想當然教育部是非常關心的包委我們不能夠隨隨便便提一個標準所以我目前的確要跟健保資料部提出一個新的標準因為學童的權益我希望教育部一定要有權責 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].start |
30212.452 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].end |
30230.559 |
| transcript.whisperx[734].text |
當然專業的方面請環境部甚至衛福部剛剛有講我們本來就應該跨部會整合好嗎接著本席要再繼續請教我們卓院長我們要特別就托育還有幼兒園的福利政策 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].start |
30231.999 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].end |
30247.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[735].text |
本席這邊有一個表就是我們現在0到6歲的學童我們中央政府對0到6歲的學童的照顧我們特別看0到2歲還有2歲以上2到6歲 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].start |
30251.813 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].end |
30279.22 |
| transcript.whisperx[736].text |
看到這個家長的負擔本席最主要要講的就是家長的負擔這個在過去本席總質詢的時候也有特別跟卓院長有特別建議過我不知道回去有沒有相關單位大家有沒有再去研擬我們能不能再更加的來照顧因為少子化一直以來的這個國安危機都沒有解除過那很大的原因就是年輕的家長 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].start |
30280 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].end |
30300.35 |
| transcript.whisperx[737].text |
他們0到6歲的孩子他們的負擔非常的重所以我們看到0到2歲如果你念這個準公共的話你這個家長的負擔一個就光一個我們都是看第一個那你不是6000、9000那如果你要念私立又更多1萬多每個月 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].start |
30301.314 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].end |
30329.086 |
| transcript.whisperx[738].text |
那兩歲以上那當然能夠唸公立的或準公共的我們一千、兩千、三千但如果你要唸私立的兩萬所以本席在這裡要再次的請命卓院長我們應該是可以你國安在其他方面的國安你編很多但是我們這個孩子的教育我們希望可以譬如說我們公立的我們就讓他免費 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].start |
30330.23 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].end |
30348.488 |
| transcript.whisperx[739].text |
我們公立的我們就讓他免費然後念私立的我們來補貼補貼他一萬五院長這個部分可不可以去研擬然後來為我們很多的年輕人還有很多未來我們希望我們的這個少子化的情況他能夠反轉 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].start |
30350.03 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].end |
30370.361 |
| transcript.whisperx[740].text |
這個也是我們長年來一直努力的方向我們對0到6歲國家一起養的這樣的一個工程在明年的中央政府總預算一共編列了1106億也相當的不少那也是逐年的增加對 我們就是說對家長的負擔因為你一次一點給那些家長看了 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].start |
30371.241 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].end |
30399.136 |
| transcript.whisperx[741].text |
還是覺得我不一定能負擔所以很多年輕人可能就不生但是現在如果公立的你都給他免費而且我也必須肯定我們現在政府在公立準公共化非營利這一塊其實很努力在做所以讓年輕的家長安心公立的我們就給他免費然後私立的謝謝院長的善意的回應私立的我們補貼多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].start |
30401.578 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].end |
30417.809 |
| transcript.whisperx[742].text |
讓他們的負擔再少一點這樣我們希望這種少子化的因素至少在0到6歲他這個孩子整個的這種托育還有幼兒園的部分他們就0到6歲那6年他們就會比較放心 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].start |
30418.373 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].end |
30443.289 |
| transcript.whisperx[743].text |
是在育兒的政策的需求而且年輕父母的需要以及對家庭的支出我們一定往這個方向去處理明年的預算我請委員先支持1106億就在這裡我們未來會支持而且現在公立的各個機構量還要增加公立還不夠那1106億你們這個研擬一下公立就先給他免費那私立我們希望補助再多一點 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].start |
30444.309 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].end |
30470.856 |
| transcript.whisperx[744].text |
我們朝這個方向想明年我們會踏出一大步的明年踏出一大步就是剛剛這個數字應該都是明年我們要做的第二胎還有加的我知道 第二胎還有加謝謝委員的支持 謝謝我們希望一起來努力讓年輕人感生而且讓我們的未來國家的幼苗能夠得到很好的教育再來本席要請教院長 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].start |
30472.455 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].end |
30495.374 |
| transcript.whisperx[745].text |
院長這個水啊 水權啊就是喝這個能夠有安全充足可負擔的自來水這個應該是最基本的人權吧院長您認同吧這也是一個文明社會的基本條件基本條件嘛那但是我們現在還有100萬人沒有自來水喝 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].start |
30496.73 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].end |
30515.746 |
| transcript.whisperx[746].text |
這一個部分本席要在這裡特別請命因為按照現在整個長久以來的這種進行的方式要讓所有的國人特別是那些到現在還無自來水的地區的民眾有自來水喝要248年 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].start |
30517.901 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].end |
30535.748 |
| transcript.whisperx[747].text |
所以這一塊能不能加緊腳步例如我們是不是可以來考慮自來水普及化加速執行的特種基金可以考慮這樣嗎因為248年你我都等不到但是現在很多人 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].start |
30536.528 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].end |
30548.961 |
| transcript.whisperx[748].text |
我們想像不到現在所還沒有的地方都是一些工程在施工上相當的困難的不只這樣很多是根本還乏人問津喔院長這個在我的選區很多人的選區都是如此我們有編了一個計畫嘛 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].start |
30552.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].end |
30576.894 |
| transcript.whisperx[749].text |
因為我們如果是非常的在山里的偏鄉的話我們至少可以用所謂的簡易自來水但是簡易自來水還是安全的那本席直接講院長您剛剛說有的是工程延宕的這一塊當然是另一個我們要討論的但是還有很多沒有的他可能真的按照這個經費這樣子編列要200多年這個部分來想個辦法 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].start |
30581.996 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].end |
30609.975 |
| transcript.whisperx[750].text |
我們這一期的工作 從114年到118年是106億的經費 但他也只能接6萬份106億太少了 我們是不是可以有能不能為了這個來做特種基因爲那些人其實他跟我們一樣都是中華民國國民但是他家的水洗白襯衫越洗越黃白襯衫變成黃襯衫還有他們家的水根本是不能喝的 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].start |
30610.802 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].end |
30619.149 |
| transcript.whisperx[751].text |
他們很可憐啊沒有可以啦還有100萬人這個檢疫自來水還是可以喝不是檢疫自來水很多連檢疫自來水都沒有啊部長 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].start |
30620.98 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].end |
30645.425 |
| transcript.whisperx[752].text |
還有很多現在本席說的100萬人是沒有的所以這一塊可能要請院長跟部長你們要更加的了解因為看來你們不知道現況他還有100萬人是沒有的喔連潔溢自來水都沒有政治上是已經有在執行114年到118年這等於是今年開始執行能不能加速弄一個特種基金來加速執行 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].start |
30645.945 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].end |
30668.008 |
| transcript.whisperx[753].text |
我們除了這個接管率之外我們還有這個防漏我們也用了很大的好 謝謝徐信義委員執行謝謝卓院長 各部會首長 貝雪茵 謝謝 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].start |
30671.66 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].end |
30694.211 |
| transcript.whisperx[754].text |
我們登記第15位楊耀委員質詢已書面提出請行政院書面答覆並列入紀錄刊登公報報告報告本日排定質詢的委員均已經質詢完畢謝謝卓院長、鄭副院長、各部會首長列席答詢特別感謝翁曉琳委員陪同我們一起參與今天的質詢現在我們做以下的決定 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].start |
30694.691 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].end |
30719.962 |
| transcript.whisperx[755].text |
下次會議繼續進行施政報告諮詢關於會議 我們現在繼續處理復議案請議事人員宣讀第一案本院臺灣民眾黨黨團針對第二次會議議事日程報告事項第29案院會所做決定提出復議請公決案宣讀完畢我們現在做以下決定訂定期處理請議事人員宣讀第二案 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].start |
30720.492 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].end |
30738.814 |
| transcript.whisperx[756].text |
本院國民黨黨團針對第二次院會議事日程報告事項第十一案院會所作之決定提出覆議請公決案宣讀完畢我們做以下決定另訂其處理報院會本次會議進行到此為止再一次謝謝卓院長 鄭副院長 各位閣員我們現在散會 |